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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Thursday, November 27, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 36, Number 5

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc Fourth Session, 38th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on. Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ...........................................................................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Deputy Premier and Minister of education and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy ..................h on. Shirley bond Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .................................................................................................. h on. Michael de Jong Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................. h on.

Murray c oell Minister of a griculture and l ands ..........................................................................................................................................h on. Stan h agen a ttorney General and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism .......................................................................... h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development ..........................................................................................................h on. t om c hristensen Minister of State for c hildcare ................................................................................................................................................. h on. l inda r eid Minister of c ommunity Development .............................................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources ..................................................................................................h on. r ichard n eufeld Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Gordon h ogg Minister of environment .......................................................................................................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of Finance and Minister r esponsible for the o lympics .................................................................................. h on. c olin h ansen Minister of Forests and r ange ....................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ................................................................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport .....................................................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour and citizens' Services ................................................................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .........................................................................................................h on.

John van Dongen Minister of Small business and r evenue and Minister r esponsible for r egulatory r eform ................................... h on. k evin k rueger Minister of technology, trade and economic Development and Minister responsible for the asia-Pacific initiative ...........h on. ida c hong Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...........................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker ..............................................................................................................................................................................Sindi h awkins Deputy Speaker .....................................................................................................................................................................k atherine Whittred a ssistant Deputy Speaker ...............................................................................................................................................................Sue h ammell Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms ........................................................................................................................................................................................Vacant Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern l egislative l ibrarian ............................................................................................................................................................................

Jane t aylor l egislative c omptroller ....................................................................................................................................................................... Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................Penticton–o kanagan Valley bell, h on.

Pat (l) ...............................................................Prince George n orth bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................e ast k ootenay black, h on. iain (l) ......................................................Port Moody–Westwood bloy, h arry (l) ....................................................................................burquitlam bond, h on. Shirley (l) ....................................Prince George–Mount r obson brar, Jagrup (nDP) .....................................................Surrey–Panorama r idge c ampbell, h on.

Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, r on (l) ................................................................n anaimo-Parksville c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c hristensen, h on. t om (l) ..................................................o kanagan-Vernon c hudnovsky, Dave (nDP) ........................................... Vancouver-kensington c oell, h on.

Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ............................................Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) ...........................................West kootenay–b oundary c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c ubberley, David (nDP) ..............................................................Saanich South de Jong, h on.

Michael (l) ................................... a bbotsford–Mount l ehman Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway e vans, c orky (nDP) ..................................................................n elson-creston Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................. Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain Fleming, r ob (nDP) ................................................................

Victoria-h illside Fraser, Scott (nDP) ...............................................................a lberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h agen, h on. Stan (l) .................................................................... c omox Valley h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) .................................................. Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission h awkins, Sindi (l) ..................................................................k elowna-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................... Vancouver-burrard h ogg, h on. Gordon (l) ......................................................

Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca h orning, a l (l) .............................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry ilich, o lga (l) .......................................................................... r ichmond c entre James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill Jarvis, Daniel (l) .................................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ............................................e squimalt-Metchosin k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ali, h arry (nDP) ........................................................................... Y ale-lillooet l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) ....................................................... Peace r iver South l es, John (l) ............................................................................c hilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke McGinn, Jenn (nDP) .........................................................

Vancouver-Fairview Mcintyre, h on. Joan (l) ........................................ West Vancouver–Garibaldi Mack ay, Dennis (l) ....................................................... bulkley Valley–Stikine n eufeld, h on. r ichard (l) ....................................................Peace r iver n orth n uraney, John (l) .............................................................. burnaby-Willingdon o ppal, h on. Wally, Qc (l) ........................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, hon. barry (l) .............................................................c hilliwack-k ent Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Puchmayr, c huck (nDP) .......................................................n ew Westminster r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, h on. l inda (l) ...................................................................r ichmond e ast r ichmond, c laude (l) .........................................................................k amloops r oddick, Valerie (l) ..........................................................................Delta South r outley, Doug (nDP) ......................................................c owichan-l adysmith r ustad, John (l) .......................................................... Prince George–omineca Sather, Michael (nDP) .........................................

Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ................................... Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Sultan, r alph (l) ..................................................... West Vancouver–capilano t aylor, c arole (l) .................................................................

Vancouver-l angara Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, r ick (l) .................................................................. o kanagan-Westside t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, h on.

John (l) ............................................a bbotsford-c layburn Whittred, k atherine (l) ........................................ n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Wyse, c harlie (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo South Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-c layburn .................................................... h on. John van Dongen a bbotsford–Mount l ehman ...........................................h on.

Michael de Jong a lberni-Qualicum ............................................................................. Scott Fraser bulkley Valley–Stikine ...............................................................Dennis Mack ay burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee burnaby-e dmonds ..........................................................................r aj c houhan burnaby-Willingdon .....................................................................

John n uraney burquitlam .......................................................................................... h arry bloy c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c ariboo South................................................................................. c harlie Wyse c hilliwack-k ent.....................................................................h on. barry Penner c hilliwack-Sumas ..................................................................................

John l es c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley............................................................................h on. Stan h agen c oquitlam-Maillardville............................................................... Diane Thorne c owichan-l adysmith ...................................................................

Doug r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South..................................................................................Valerie r oddick e ast k ootenay .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett e squimalt-Metchosin .........................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman k amloops ................................................................................c laude r ichmond k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ................................................................... a l h orning k elowna-Mission .........................................................................Sindi h awkins l angley.......................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca ....................................................................John h organ Maple r idge–Mission ....................................................................r andy h awes Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo-Parksville ...................................................................... r on c antelon n elson-creston ................................................................................ c orky evans n ew Westminster .................................................................... c huck Puchmayr n orth c oast.......................................................................................

Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ............................................... k atherine Whittred n orth Vancouver–Seymour ...........................................................

Daniel Jarvis o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong o kanagan-Vernon ..........................................................h on. t om c hristensen o kanagan-Westside .........................................................................r ick Thorpe Peace r iver n orth ........................................................... h on. r ichard n eufeld Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton–o kanagan Valley................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam–b urke Mountain ...........................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George n orth .......................................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Mount r obson ............................................h on. Shirley bond Prince George–omineca ................................................................. John r ustad r ichmond c entre ................................................................................. o lga ilich r ichmond e ast ..........................................................................h on. l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ........................................................................... David c ubberley Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey–Panorama r idge ...................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ............................................................. h on. Gordon h ogg Vancouver-burrard ....................................................................Spencer h erbert Vancouver-Fairview .......................................................................Jenn McGinn Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................h on.

Wally o ppal, Qc Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington ........................................................David c hudnovsky Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ........................................................................ c arole t aylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ......................................... Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria-h illside ..............................................................................r ob Fleming West kootenay–b oundary ........................................................ k atrine c onroy West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................h on.

Joan Mcintyre Y ale-lillooet ......................................................................................... h arry l ali Party Standings: l iberal 45; n ew Democratic 34

CONTENTS Thursday, november 27, 2008 a fternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Statements .............................................................................................................................................................................. 13371 Mourning for victims of Mumbai terrorist attacks h on. S. bond c.

James introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13371 t ributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13371 k athie h atlen h on. l. r eid introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13371 t ributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13372 t ravis h utchings G. c oons introductions by Members ................................................................................................................................................... 13372 t ributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13373 John Verigin k. c onroy introduction and First r eading of bills .............................................................................................................................. 13373 Government integrity a ct, 2008 (bill M226) c.

James e limination of h omelessness crisis a ct, 2008 (bill M227) c. James l ong t erm r enters Protection a ct, 2008 (bill M228) S. h erbert Statements (Standing order 25 b) ........................................................................................................................................ 13375 h olodomor b. r alston t errorist attacks in Mumbai D. h ayer Stand u p For Mental h ealth comedy performance program S. Simpson Maureen Gabriel k. Whittre d a rchdiocese of Vancouver M.

Farnworth n anaimo Forest Products r . c antelon oral Questions ....................................................................................................................................................................... 13377 l obbyists registration legislation c. James h on. W . oppal

Gaming industry contributions to l iberal Party l. k rog h on. M. de Jong S. Simpson h. l ali l ong-term care beds at Zion Park Manor G. Gentner h on. G. a bbott Funding for b.c. Schizophrenia S ociety J. kwan ho n. G. a bbott a vailability of long-term care beds in interior h ealth a uthority k. c onroy h on. G. a bbott Government spending on advertising M.

Farnworth h on. c. h ansen Point of Privilege (r eservation of r ight) ........................................................................................................................... 13383 k. c onroy t abling Documents ............................................................................................................................................................... 13383 british c olumbia Ferry c ommission, annual report, fiscal year ended March 31, 2008 british c olumbia h uman r ights t ribunal, annual report, ending 2007-08 r eport on multiculturalism, 2005-06 and 2006-07 Public Guardian and t rustee of british c olumbia, annual report, 2007-2008 british c olumbia u tilities c ommission, annual report, 2007-2008 Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................. 13383 n.

Simon s G. c oons t ributes ................................................................................................................................................................................... 13383 Mary bowen-c olthurst D. r outley Statements .............................................................................................................................................................................. 13383 Withdrawal of comments h on.

G. a bbott c ommittee of the Whole h ouse .......................................................................................................................................... 13383 e conomic incentive and Stabilization Statutes amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 45) (continued) h on. c. h ansen b. r alston h on. W . oppal h on. k. k rueger M. Sather J. brar c. Puchmay r n. Macdonald M.

Farnworth r eporting of bills ................................................................................................................................................................... 13405 e conomic incentive and Stabilization Statutes amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 45) Third r eading of bills ........................................................................................................................................................... 13405 e conomic incentive and Stabilization Statutes amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 45) c ommittee of the Whole h ouse .......................................................................................................................................... 13405 Vancouver Foundation amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 46) S.

Simpson h on. W . oppal M. Farnworth

r eport and Third r eading of bills ....................................................................................................................................... 13408 Vancouver Foundation amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 46) r oyal a ssent to bills .............................................................................................................................................................. 13408 e conomic incentive and Stabilization Statutes amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 45) Vancouver Foundation amendment a ct, 2008 (bill 46)

13371 thurSD a Y , noVeMber 27, 2008 The h ouse met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Statements Mournin G For Victi MS o F Mu Mbai terrori St attack S Hon. S. Bond: t oday on behalf of the Premier and all british c olumbians, i want to express our condol- ences to the people of india and their loved ones here in british c olumbia following the series of terrible attacks that have taken place in Mumbai.

The people and communities of british c olumbia and india are closely connected through family, social and economic ties. n early a quarter-million british c olumbians are of indian origin, and many of us have family and friends living in india. i know every member of this h ouse and all british c olumbians are united in mourning the injury and loss of life and, certainly, in condemning these horrifying acts of violence and terrorism. [1335] Mr. Speaker, i would ask that the h ouse rise and show their sympathy and respect with a minute of silence. Mr.

Speaker: Just before we do this, could the l eader of the o pposition do her statement too. C. James: i want to add my voice to the government's to say that british c olumbians are shocked and deeply saddened by the horrific violence that is rocking Mumbai. o ur deepest sympathies go out to the victims and their families, and our hearts go out to everyone who has lost family members or loved ones.

We're certainly think- ing about those people, and we know many of them in british c olumbia, who are anxiously awaiting news for people in communities that they know. i particularly want to express my deepest condolences to the bhurji family in Surrey, whose niece Jasmine was gunned down at the hotel where she worked as a manager. This senseless, cowardly violence touches us all. it's an attack on the world's largest democracy, a democracy that has overcome incredible obstacles to unite people from diverse cultures and backgrounds to forge a path of peace and hope in the world.

The people who have perpetrated this atrocity have one motivation: to attack hope and progress. i know i speak for all of us when i say that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the people in Mumbai. We feel profound grief, but we also recognize their courage and determination to emerge from this tragedy more resolved than ever to keep building the road to peace, justice and democracy. Mr. Speaker: Would all members stand for a moment of silence. We'll continue on with introduction of guests. Introductions by Members M.

Karagianis: t oday in the gallery is a constituent of my good neighbour, the member for Saanich South.

D'a rcy l ee lives in Saanich and works for the burnside h ouse, a community living establishment in Saanich, as a residential care attendant. h e's a very good employee who enjoys working with disabled adults. h e's joined by his girlfriend, Pavlina Vagnerova, a committee researcher with the c lerk of c ommittees and former h ansard researcher and a former resident of e squimalt. t oday is her last day of work before she goes back to her home in the czech r epublic. i know the h ouse will make them both feel welcome and wish Pavlina all the best on her return home. Hon. M.

Polak: a t the beginning of this school year the Minister of e ducation and i were very pleased to announce the expansion of the r ead to Succeed pro- gram to include the entire Whl. t oday in the gallery we're joined by Dale Saip, who is with the Vancouver Giants and also a school trustee in Delta. Would the h ouse please make him welcome. M. Farnworth: Visiting the l egislature today are a group of 33 grade 11 students accompanied by six adults and their teacher, Mr. John Wiens, from the british c olumbia c hristian a cademy in my con- stituency. Would the h ouse please make them most welcome.

Tributes kathie hatlen Hon. L. Reid: i would ask this h ouse to join with me in honouring the passing of my dear friend and con- stituency assistant k athie h atlen. She was diagnosed with leukemia and breast cancer and fought valiantly. She turned 40 on o ctober 18. My friends, love deeply; laugh often. She did, and she is dearly missed. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Abbott: in the gallery today are two young british c olumbians who are today on their second- to-last day of employment, at least for the foreseeable future, with the government of british c olumbia.

They are about to embark on an exciting international

british c olumbia Debates13372 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 journey. We hope that they return safely and give some consideration to working with us again. one is James Watson, who for 15 months has been one of my executive assistants at the Ministry of h ealth and now Ministry of h ealth Services. James has done an exceptionally fine job as my executive assistant. i'm going to miss him terribly. but for reasons which i'm sure are very shallow and selfish he has decided to go with his young wife a lana c lement, who has been for at least a couple of years a media relations officer with the public affairs bureau.

She and James are going to be enjoying a e uropean holiday and, i'm sure, learning many things in europe. [1340] i know they don't often describe the l egislature as a romantic place, but there's evidence in itself that it is possible for that to occur. i'd like the h ouse to wish them all the best on their e uropean adventure. n ot in the gallery today but a gentleman who we are accustomed to seeing, all of us, in the press gallery is Mr.

Scott Sutherland. i hear only by channel of rumour that Scott may be leaving the radio room for adventures and work elsewhere. i wouldn't want to say where that might be, lest i embarrass Scott. Scott's been a good friend for…. interjection. Hon. G. Abbott: n ow, there's no need for that kind of heckling from the Minister of education, i don't think.

Scott's been a very good friend to us. i'm proud to say that i may have played a small hand in Scott moving from a two-pack-a-day smoker to now international-class marathoner. he is a marvellous example of actn ow b.c. i just wanted to say, in wishing Scott all the best in his apparent departure from the radio room, that i am person- ally starting a petition that demands that Scott be inducted as a member emeritus into the press gallery so that we can continue to do what is delightful, i'm sure, to every member of the h ouse — the annual skit that Scott and i perform at the press gallery dinner. all the best to Scott.

N. Simons: it gives me great pleasure to introduce to the h ouse today my friend and constituent and former Mla for o kanagan e ast, Judy t yabji. Would the h ouse please make her welcome. i'd also like to introduce…. My partner's in the h ouse — Scott Scobbie, along with his nephew brendan Manning and his nephew's girlfriend, r achael Paul. Would the house please make them welcome. H.

Bloy: it's an honour today. i've got my three constituency assistants from my office that i wanted to introduce. but i really have to thank Simon Fraser u niversity, because they're either co-op students that started there or graduates of Simon Fraser. We have Michael l ee, my constituency assistant, who just graduated this past June from Simon Fraser u niversity. We have c hanelle Jen, who's worked for me for a year and a half now. She started as a co-op student and is now a part-time student in the office, and we have c hristina Jung, who is doing a co-op semester with me this term.

So would the house please make them welcome. Tributes tra ViS hutchin GS G. Coons: i'd like to acknowledge a very exciting event from the northwest. For the first time ever, a r upertite brought home a medal from the c ommonwealth t ae kwon Do c hampionships. They were held in Winnipeg last weekend, with over 50 countries participating. Seventeen-year-old t ravis h utchings, a member of the Prince r upert t ae kwon Do c lub, came home a cham- pion with a bronze medal in the junior light-heavyweight.

Fellow r upertite Zachary baker also attended the games but was in a difficult side of the draw. in the bronze-medal final t ravis found himself star - ing into the eyes of a giant — a 6 foot 4 competitor from Quebec, nearly a foot taller. That said, the match went the full three rounds and required another round, where the next landed point would win — which t ravis stra- tegically managed to get. t ravis described his reaction this way.

"right after the match i did a big backflip — i was so stoked — and the crowd went wild." c ongratulations to both t ravis and Zachary for their accomplishments, and especially to their coach and my good friend Paul bozman. Introductions by Members Hon. B. Bennett: it's my pleasure to introduce two young people who work with me in my office upstairs. They have the unenviable task of looking after me and doing my scheduling and trying to keep me out of trouble. Please help me make welcome today k ellie o 'brien and a licia o wens. [1345] M.

Farnworth: i would be remiss if i did not let the h ouse know that we're joined today by a member of this h ouse, a former Member of Parliament for Vancouver- k ingsway, the former Mla for Vancouver-Fraserview as well as a former Minister of t ourism and an individual who played no small

part in helping to get the Vancouver 2010 o lympic bid underway — and that is ian Waddell. Would the house please make him welcome. Hon. L. Reid: i also have the joy of welcoming to this place 23 grade 5 students from h enry a nderson

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13373 e lementary in my riding and their teachers with them today, Sue Price, Jenny r oya and Julie Wilson. i would ask the h ouse to please make them welcome. C. Trevena: i didn't want to tread on the toes of the Minister of State for c hildcare. She organized this lunch- time the launch of a book from one of our former colleagues, a nne e dwards, who has written a book about women in politics and women in b.c. politics.

She and a number of other former Mla s are up here launching the book. i hope the h ouse will make them very welcome, and i hope that everyone will read and learn from anne's book. Hon.

M. de Jong: one of the students from h enry a nderson, the school that we just heard about, a rjun badh, is here. h e's someone that i know, and he's also quite a hockey player. h is peewee hockey team, the Seafair Minor h ockey club, is rated number one in the province, and they are on their way to participate in probably the pre-eminent peewee hockey tournament in the world, in Quebec city. i know all members of the h ouse will want to wish a rjun and his team, the Seafair Minor h ockey club, best wishes as they go to the Quebec peewee hockey tournament. We could do that now.

Secondly, moments ago in the rotunda…. i'm grate- ful to those members that were able to attend a signing ceremony signifying an agreement, a reconciliation agreement with the kwadacha First n ation, historic in every sense of the word. c hief Donny Van Somer, members of the kwadacha First n ation…. a s well, Dave Porter was present. i know all members of the h ouse are acquainted with these individuals and would want them to feel welcome here as well. J.

Kwan: l ast Thursday i was negligent when i intro- duced to the h ouse my newborn son r enan Small in the l egislature and also in advising the h ouse that r enan actually joins a very proud big sister named c ee-Y an Small, who is at home. We're delighted that renan joins our small family unit in its expansion. i also promised c ee-Y an that i would on t V wave to her, smile and tell her how much i love her. Would the h ouse please send her an extended welcome. D. Hayer: i would like to introduce to the h ouse my legislative assistant c ayley brown. She has worked with us over one year. She has done a great job.

She was an excellent la, and she has taken a job to work in research. Would the house please make her very welcome. Tributes John Veri Gin K. Conroy: it saddens me to inform the h ouse that John J. Verigin, the honorary chairman of the u nion of Spiritual c ommunities of c hrist, passed away at his home in Grand Forks on o ctober 26, at the age of 86. Mr. Verigin has been an honorary chairman of the uScc since 1962 and has been widely recognized as the spiritual leader of thousands of c anadian and r ussian Doukhobors since 1939.

For his work on behalf of the Doukhobor people, facilitating their integration into the c anadian cul- ture mosaic, for improving better relations between c anada and r ussia and furthering better understanding between all people, John was recognized with the order of c anada in 1976, the order of People's Friendship in 1989, the order of british c olumbia in 1996 and the status of Freeman of the city of Grand Forks in 1999. [1350] John lived his life with the philosophy of the Doukhobors: toil and peaceful living. h is work on behalf of the global peace movement is recognized in b.c ., across c anada and internationally. a traditional Doukhobor funeral began in Grand Forks on o ctober 31 and then in c astlegar on n ovember 1, ending on Sunday, n ovember 2, with an overwhelming outpouring of love and respect for this man. h undreds of people gathered from across c anada to watch Mr.

Verigin be carried to his final resting place by over 160 pallbearers, who shared the three-kilometre journey from the brilliant c ultural c entre to the Verigin Memorial Park where he was interred. h e is survived by his wife l aura, their three children and their families. a warm-hearted man with a quick wit, he has left a legacy that will be remembered for many generations to come. Introduction and First Reading of Bills Go VernMent inteGrit Y act, 2008 c. James presented a bill intituled Government integrity a ct, 2008. C. James: i move that this bill be read a first time now. Motion approved. C.

James: Government integrity a ct, 2008, intro- duces amendments to the l obbyists r egistration a ct. This act is a revised version of the a ccountability a ct introduced by the official opposition in the spring. it reflects recommendations made by the information and Privacy c ommissioner in his letter to the a ttorney General dated o ctober 6, 2008. in his letter the regis- trar advises the a ttorney General that amendments to the existing legislation providing robust mechanisms for compliance oversight are needed at the earliest opportunity. Most of the recommendations made by the

british c olumbia Debates13374 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 registrar were included in the a ccountability a ct, which we introduced in May 2008. The outstanding recommendations have been included within this Government integrity a ct and include an obligation that public officeholders verify registration, the power for the registrar to levy administrative pen- alties, and a provision making it an offence to obstruct the registrar. The legislative authority to set regulations regarding registration fees has been removed.

These amendments to the l obbyists r egistration a ct will provide clear rules to ensure lobbying is done ethically and transparently, and it will strengthen rules governing the activity of government lobbyists. Members of this h ouse will recall the many commitments to openness and transparency made by the current govern- ment, commitments that seem to have been abandoned along the way.

This act establishes a stronger, more open and transparent regime for ethical conduct of lobbyists, public officeholders and former public officeholders in this province. i move that this bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading in the next sitting after today. bill M226, Government integrity a ct, 2008, intro- duced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. eliMination o F ho MeleSS neSS criS iS act, 2008 c. James presented a bill intituled e limination of h omelessness crisis a ct, 2008. C.

James: i move that this bill be read a first time now. Motion approved. C. James: e limination of h omelessness crisis a ct, 2008, proposes the establishment of a five-year plan for the elimination of the homelessness crisis. h omelessness has been steadily worsening in british c olumbia over the recent years and now exists as an unprecedented crisis. Many factors contribute to this problem, including rising cost of housing, increased poverty rates and a lack of affordable housing.

The gov- ernment's actions have done little to reverse this trend, much less alleviate the problem. e arlier this year the official opposition undertook a comprehensive provincewide consultation with advo- cates, housing experts, faith communities and municipal officials. We spoke to over 130 b.c.-wide organizations in 22 communities — people who are homeless, com- munity advocates, service providers, mayors, other civic leaders. These consultations resulted in a clear set of recommendations to immediately tackle the homeless- ness crisis.

This act establishes a framework to help achieve effect- ive and timely action by putting those recommendations to work. Thoughtful planning and commitment, com- bined with an adequate allocation of resources, can help tackle this crisis. it's important that action be attached to a realistic and achievable time line. This act commits the government to a plan to eliminate the homelessness crisis, with well-defined annual targets and time lines. Further, it requires the a uditor General to monitor progress by reviewing targets, time lines and results annu- ally.

This action will extend to both rural and urban areas. h omelessness is affecting b.c. like never before. We're at a point when action must replace talk.

This act establishes a framework for that. i move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading after the sitting of today. bill M227, e limination of h omelessness crisis a ct, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. [1355] lon G terM renterS Protection act, 2008 S. h erbert presented a bill intituled l ong t erm r enters Protection a ct, 2008. S. Herbert: i move that the bill be read a first time now. Motion approved. S.

Herbert: in my constituency of Vancouver-burrard i've heard from many long-term residents who face pos- sible rent increases of 30 percent, 50 percent and even upwards of 100 percent. These increases are over and above their annual allowable increase, which they've always paid — up to 100 percent. Many of these resi- dents are seniors and people living on fixed incomes. n one can afford these increases. The justification for the increase? a nother unit in their area is renting for more, even if it is a newer unit. Do they get any improvement in services? n o.

They end up paying considerably more for what they already had just because they happen to live in their home for a longer time. This current legislation makes a mockery of renter protection and a balanced renter-tenant relationship. This sort of practice is happening all over the province in this tight rental market. This bill will go a long way to fixing the unbalanced residential tenancy legislation and keep these people in their homes. n o other province allows this kind of thing to happen to renters. We shouldn't here. We need to

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13375 return balance to our r esidential t enancy a ct for rent- ers and landlords. i move that my bill, the l ong t erm r enters Protection a ct, 2008, be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today. bill M228, l ong t erm r enters Protection a ct, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25b) holoD o Mor B.

Ralston: on Sunday, n ovember 23, u krainians throughout the world solemnly acknowledged the 75th anniversary of the h olodomor. based on two u krainian words — holod, meaning hunger, starvation or famine; and moryty, to induce suffering, to kill — the h olodomor refers to

an act of genocide, a campaign of deliberate starvation against the u krainian people committed by the Soviet state in 1932 and 1933. The Soviet leadership feared the national awaken- ing of the u krainians and their aspirations for cultural expression and an independent state, so the h olodomor was set in motion. n either drought nor a bad harvest caused the h olodomor. The harvest that year in the u kraine was sufficient to feed people. Villagers received orders to deliver all grain to state authorities.

Failure to do so became a pretext to blacklist villages and confiscate all foodstuffs. u krainian peasants living in blacklisted villages were condemned to starva- tion. in the winter and spring of 1932 and 1933, enforced starvation reached its peak. a n estimated seven to ten million people died in the h olodomor. of those, one- third were children. i was invited by k atherine Miske, the president of the congregation of the u krainian o rthodox c hurch of St.

Mary in Surrey, to join a local commemoration recently. i was particularly moved by a short video where women of u krainian descent now living in Winnipeg recounted agonizing personal reminiscences of starvation and deprivation during that horrible winter in the u kraine. The historical truth of the h olodomor was suppressed for many years in the former Soviet u nion.

More recently many governments around the world have recognized this deliberate campaign of starvation of u krainians as genocide. i am certain that this l egislature joins with me to recognize this tragic episode of u krainian history. terrori St attack S in Mu Mbai D. Hayer: l ess than a year ago the Premier, the a ttorney General and i visited india to further build ties with our cross-cultural partners in a sia. one of the exact same hotels where we stayed in india apparently yesterday was on television across the screens around the world.

This was the same hotel in Mumbai where we enjoyed many great discussions with our indian friends and partners toward building progress in our relationship with each other — a close connection based on almost 250,000 british c olumbians of indian origin and many common friends, family members, social and economic ties that we have shared for generations. Y esterday this same hotel, the t aj Mahal Palace hotel, and o beroi hotel were violently attacked. it deeply saddened me to see Mumbai wrapped in terror.

The tragedy hit home even further when i learned that one of the hotel staff, Miss Jasmine bhurji, was among the first to lose her life. She was a niece of our Surrey residents Mr. and Mrs. bhurji and also our community leader Mr. bhurji. [1400] The c anadians were also being held hostage by the terrorists in Mumbai. in the past my own family has been the target of terrorists' acts, and my father lost his life to terrorists.

So i can fully understand what the people of Mumbai, the victims and their families are going through right now. a ll of us are appalled at the terrorists' acts in Mumbai who at this point have killed more than 125 people and injured hundreds of innocent people at the hotel, at the city's main train station and other locations, including popular restaurants — even hospitals. This action is intolerable, and we must unite in our condemnation of it. There is no place in the world for terrorism, whether on an economic or cultural level.

We strive for a world of cooperation, unity and peace. a ll of us around the world must stand up and must speak against extremist terrorists who target innocent people to gain their political aim. We must condemn violence and terrorism in all its forms. We are all shocked and deeply affected by what has happened in india right now, and we unite in our con- demnation of the acts done by the perpetrators — the terrorists. i urge all members of the h ouse to join me in denouncing the attacks on our values and our peaceful coexistence.

We must make sure that there is no place for terrorism, and we must make sure the voice of condem- nation against the terrorists is heard around the world. Stan D uP For Mental h ealth co MeDY PerForMance Pro GraM S. Simpson: on n ovember 23, i had the opportunity, along with the members for Vancouver-k ingsway and n ew Westminster, to attend a remarkable performance at the a rts c lub Theatre in Vancouver. The graduates of the 2008 class of Stand u p for Mental h ealth performed their comedy before a sold-out crowd.

british c olumbia Debates13376 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 it was an evening of great entertainment with lots of laughter and good humour, with performer after per - former coming forward not only to make us laugh but to help us understand mental illness. it was an evening that celebrated a remarkable therapy for those who faced the challenges of mental illness — schizophrenia, clinical depression, bipolar disease and others. Founded in 2004, Stand u p for Mental h ealth is a therapy that teaches stand-up comedy to people with mental illness.

The participants learn to do comedy that is framed around the lighter side of mental illness — taking meds, seeing counsellors, getting diagnosed and surviving the system. Stand u p for Mental h ealth helps reduce the stigma of mental illness by spreading a mes- sage of hope. For people who are all too often told what they cannot do, this is a program that allows them to prove what they can do. Stand u p for Mental h ealth was founded by David Granirer, a counsellor, stand-up comic and author of The Happy Neurotic: How Fear and Angst Can Lead to Happiness and Success.

David, who has also met the chal- lenges of mental illness personally, has received many accolades from mental health professionals and, most importantly, from program participants and their fam- ilies — stories of the sea change in self-confidence or people who spent their lives watching t V and smoking cigarettes, who have now become re-engaged. it is so suc- cessful that David needed to establish an alumni group for those participants who didn't want to let go of this opportunity. i urge members, if they have a chance, to view the cbc documentary Cracking Up, which tells the story of Stand u p for Mental h ealth.

Should you see that Stand u p or Mental h ealth is performing in your commun- ity, i would really urge you to come out, support a great program and have a good laugh too. Maureen Gabriel K. Whittred: i rise today to pay tribute to a woman of compassion and accomplishment on the n orth Shore. Maureen Gabriel was the executive director of the n orth Shore c risis Services Society for nearly 12 years.

Maureen proved herself to be a remarkable leader with a strong commitment to helping women and children who experience abuse. a s a tireless advocate, Maureen ensured a high standard of service and safety to women and children at Sage t ransition h ouse as well as to the clients of the n orth Shore crisis Services Society out- reach programs and the children Who Witness a buse program. it was Maureen's vision to open second-stage hous- ing for women and children to facilitate their transition to independence.

Maureen's leadership enabled this to happen, and ho Pe's Place was opened, the only second- stage housing program for women and their children on the n orth Shore. i was most honoured to be part of the opening ceremonies.

Maureen also conceived of and opened the Good Stuff connection clothing program and thrift store, which provides free clothing to families in need all over n orth Vancouver. [1405] Maureen's work impacted so very many women and children. h er commitment, dedication, and abil- ity to directly improve the lives of the most vulnerable and marginalized in our society is a legacy that will be missed by all those whose lives she touched. Maureen passed away on n ovember 12 after a short but tenacious battle with cancer. arch Dioce Se o F Vancou Ver M.

Farnworth: This is the 150th anniversary of the crown colony of british c olumbia. it's a time for us to recognize and celebrate important historical events that have occurred since that terrific day back in 1858. i'd like to take the opportunity now to recognize and mark one of the important events of that 150 years, and that concerns the spiritual life of british c olumbia. The c atholic community in british c olumbia has been part of our social fabric since before we became a c rown colony and has been an important part of this province's history.

This past weekend we saw the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the creation of the a rchdiocese of Vancouver. it is an archdiocese that stretches from Vancouver to h ope to Gibsons to Powell r iver to a bbotsford to Surrey, and includes my own community of Port c oquitlam. it tends to the spiritual needs of some 450,000 c atholics — the largest diocese in the province — and was founded on September 19, 1908. i'd just like to read to the h ouse in the language of that age — somewhat different than today — when Pope Pius X, with i think a fair amount of linguistic flair, said: "We of our own initiative and with certain knowledge and mature deliberation in the plenitude of our apostolic authority raise by these presents the diocese of n ew Westminster to the metropolitan dignity, and we declare its see transferred from the city of n ew Westminster to the city of V ancouver whence it is to be hereafter called the a rchdiocese of Vancouver." it is the largest archdiocese in the province, and it plays a very important role in the spiritual life of c atholics in british c olumbia. o ver this past week we have seen where GM Place was turned into the largest church in c anada, where some 15,000 c atholics came to celebrate their faith, to celebrate the history of the archdiocese in Vancouver, and to look forward to the future and playing an important role in the future his- tory of our province.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13377 nanai Mo Fore St Pro Duct S R.

Cantelon: e arly this fall i was at a great celebra- tion in n anaimo at the h armac mill as n anaimo Forest Products prepared for shipment the first bales of pulp from their new mill. it was a great day, but it didn't begin so optimistically. back in June when the union work- ers and the management had pooled their resources — $25,000 each — and committed their families to this project, it didn't look so bright — the future. in fact, it was quite clear at the courthouse — and i attended there — that they were well up the track as far as the ranking of the bids go. but they were determined.

Y ou could see that in them. They weren't going to quit. They attracted the investment of Pioneer l og h omes and other investors. i was there when they went back a second time. They still didn't have it, but they attracted more investors — the l evi Sampson family, oil money, fresh blood. That's what this province needs — new money into the project from Saskatchewan. a nd this time, they took it. Then it was a struggle to make it work, but they made it work. Much has been made about this new partnership, this new model of management and union, but that's only part of the story. The other

part is that they're not looking over their shoulder at some company back east that sees them, perhaps, just as a bottom line on some industry ledger. n o, it's about the partnership with them and the investors. it really harkens back to the early days of our forest industry when entrepreneurship was met with energy and new products were formed. That, i think, is the key to what i see as the new future in the forest industry. They're looking ahead; they're not looking back.

They're looking to create new products and new markets. i ask all the members of this h ouse to wish them every success and continued success as they forge new grounds and open up new vistas, new opportunities, for the forest industry in british c olumbia. [1410] Oral Questions lobb YiSt S re GiStration le GiSlation C. James: l ast month one of the Premier's top polit- ical advisers, Patrick k insella, refused to cooperate with b.c.'s registrar of lobbyists in investigating allegations that he improperly lobbied the government.

The k insella affair led the Privacy c ommissioner to comment that he'll no longer be investigating complaints against lob- byists because a lobbyist under investigation can veto the investigation. My question is to the a ttorney General. is this his idea of the rule of law — that the subject of an investigation has the power to stop the investigation? Hon. W . Oppal: The l obbyists r egistration a ct was enacted in 2002. a t that time it was passed without any opposition from the members on the other side. a t that time…. interjections. Hon. W .

Oppal: There were no suggestions made at that time that the legislation was found wanting. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, a ttorney. Hon. W . Oppal: The legislation at the time was mod- elled after the ontario act and the federal act. a t that time it was considered that british c olumbia was lead- ing the way in that type of legislation. k eep in mind that prior to 2001, there was no act in this province at all. in fact, in the 1990s there was no lobbyists registration act at all. We've made it clear that the act has outlived its time.

We are looking at ways to reform the act and bring it up to date. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: i don't know how many ways the a ttorney General can twist and turn to avoid giving a straight answer, which is that the government has done abso- lutely nothing to fix the r egistration a ct. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. James: Mr. k insella is a major political player in the province and one of the Premier's closest advisers and friends. h e's avoiding an investigation, plain and simple, and the a ttorney General is sitting by and doing absolutely nothing.

My question again to the a ttorney General: what message does it send the public when the Premier's clos- est friend can avoid an investigation? Hon. W . Oppal: i'm grateful for the enthusiasm and the interest shown by the opposition member to the l obbyists r egistration a ct. it's regrettable that that enthusiasm wasn't there in the 1990s. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The l eader of the o pposition has a further supple- mental.

british c olumbia Debates13378 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 C. James: We've gone through two sessions with the registrar of lobbyists raising serious concerns about the current legislation — two entire sessions. The government keeps saying they're working on it. We heard again… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. James: …from the a ttorney General: "We're get- ting around to it. We'll think about it. We're going to study it some more." Well, my question, again, is to the a ttorney General.

Does the a ttorney General not believe that the act needs fixing, or will the Premier refuse to let the a ttorney General fix this act? Hon. W . Oppal: The short answer is that i do believe the act needs to be fixed. Ga Min G in Du Str Y contribution S to liberal Part Y L. Krog: The b.c. l iberal Party has received almost a quarter of a million dollars in donations from the gaming industry.

These funds have been delivered through numbered companies so that the source of the contribution is not readily apparent. t o the a ttorney General: does the a ttorney General not believe that the spirit of the e lection a ct is violated when contributions are disguised in this way? [1415] Hon. M. de Jong: First, let me applaud the hon. member and the opposition for uncovering information that has been in the public domain for almost five years now. Well done. Well done.

The member may have his own ideas about the ability that individuals have to contribute to political organiza- tions. in fact, we know that in the case of this l eader of the o pposition, she believes that taxpayers should be largely responsible for funding political organizations and political activities in the province.

We disagree with that. if the member has — and i can't remember how many times, unfortunately, we've had to say this…. instead of the innuendo, instead of these allegations that are made in here beneath the veil of immunity that is granted all hon. mem- bers…. i f he has an allegation to make, make it outside. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L.

Krog: it's somewhat disappointing that the a ttorney General doesn't feel he can speak to an issue of this importance. but given that his own political party was the recipient of these laundered funds, can the a G explain why no special prosecutor has been appointed to determine whether this activity violates the e lection a ct? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: Well, i am almost speechless to hear a member from n anaimo, home of the n anaimo c ommonwealth h olding Society — one of the worst scandals in the political history of this province — stand up and make these reckless, irresponsible allegations. if he has an allegation to make, he should make it outside. it hasn't been their practice. They love casting dirt, throwing mud in this chamber. l et him make it outside and be answerable for it. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. S.

Simpson: The minister says that he's been aware of this for a number of years, so maybe that's given the a ttorney General time to have this conversation. My question is to the a ttorney General. in the course of his inquiry into this matter, has he taken the time to discuss this with officials at the b.c. l iberal Party to deter- mine if they had any role at all in developing or condoning this scheme to hide the identity of these liberal donors? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: What do the Prince George c asino Supply c o., the Great c anadian c asino c o., the Great c anadian c orp., e dgewater c asino, Grand c asino and Great c anadian c asino c o. all have in common? They've all made donations to the n ew Democratic Party. That's what they have in common. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, we're not continuing until there's silence. The member has a supplemental. S. Simpson: This minister talks about this. We're talking here about a couple of thousand, not the quarter- million dollars that your party got.

We're talking here…. interjections.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13379 Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The member for Vancouver-hastings has the floor. S. Simpson: The issue here is that this party….We need to know the facts. h as it colluded with this indus- try to hide the source of these donations? h ave they gone out of their way to find numbered companies or individuals to give gaming money to this party? This is the party that writes the rules.

This is the government that writes the rules that allow those companies to make a great amount of money, and you hide the fact that you're getting the donations. h ave you done that or not? Will you allow an investigation of this? [1420] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. M. de Jong: So if i understand the member cor- rectly, it's not the fact that the gaming industry loves the nDP . it's just that they don't love them enough. i noticed the hon. member…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon.

M. de Jong: i notice the hon. member getting a little bit of advice from his colleague behind him, which is interesting and probably appropriate, because i've got a story here from January 29, 2004…. J. Horgan: That's relevant how, exactly? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Minister, take your seat. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M. de Jong: Well, he'll tell us how relevant it is. The headline is interesting. "nDPers c ampaigned for Slots," it says.

"Three former senior n DP government bureaucrats developed a sophisticated campaign in 2003 to convince V ancouver city council to lift a moratorium on slot machines. "During the 1990s the three former n DP bureaucrats…worked in the b.c . Ministry of Management Services, which oversaw the expansion of gambling across the province.

The trio later formed a consulting company called ideaWorks." a spokesman for that company said the following: "o ur objective here was to bring those diverse groups together to see the benefit of allowing slot machines in V ancouver…city projects through increased revenue, a future for charitable organ- izations through a new facility and jobs for trade unionists. o nce the fabric all came together, the cloth looked pretty impressive for a majority of council, and that's why we were successful." interesting, because that quote was from the member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca. So lots of it…. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. Members. H. Lali: The Premier clearly broke his promise not to expand gambling in the province. interjections. Mr. Speaker: c ontinue, Member. H. Lali: but private gaming operators were the biggest beneficiaries of this broken promise. So to the minister responsible for gaming in this province, the Solicitor General: given that he is responsible for gaming policy in b.c ., how long has he been actually aware that these laundered contributions were made to the l iberal Party? Hon. M. de Jong: Well, what's revealing…. i want to be as kind as i can to the hon. member.

We have made…. a nd i have done this, i confess, and i acknow- ledge this. i have made some disparaging remarks on the level of preparedness of some of the hon. members in question period. a ctually, that's not the minister who's responsible, hon. Member. So maybe we could start with a level of research that i realize is very difficult, but at least under- stand who has the responsibility. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: a pparently, that member has undergone quite a dramatic conversion on the road to the racetrack, because he was a member of a govern- ment that oversaw this dramatic expansion of gaming. a t the same time, he was the member of a government that for a lengthy period of time denied the fact that his political party had been responsible for bilking charities out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. We won't take any lectures from any member of the n DP about how to operate a gaming system in this province properly. interjections. [1425]

british c olumbia Debates13380 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Member has a supplemental. H. Lali: a gain to the Solicitor General: does the min- ister expect the public to actually believe…? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member, just take your seat for a second. it's difficult to hear when people are talking. Please pose your question. c ontinue, Member. H.

Lali: Does the minister expect the public to actually believe that when the l iberal Party actually receives a quarter of a million dollars in laundered funds from the gambling industry, somehow its own government's policies are not impacted by these large questionable donations? So how can the public actually have any con- fidence in this government's handling of the issue? if the a ttorney General won't tell us why no spe- cial prosecutor has been appointed, will the Solicitor General, as the top law enforcement officer in the province, please tell his cabinet colleagues to appoint a special prosecutor? Hon.

M. de Jong: The member makes these allega- tions. h e sits in a caucus with a colleague who made a living lobbying on behalf of the gaming industry — nothing wrong with that if he was following the rules. but if he wants to be taken seriously, before he uses words like "laundered," maybe he should do some research. Maybe he should understand the process that is followed, and maybe he should be prepared to back up that language by shedding the veil of immunity that exists for members in this chamber and making the same comments out in the hallway. lon G-terM care beDS at Z ion P ark M anor G.

Gentner: During t uesday's question period this is what the Minister of h ealth said regarding who or what agency is responsible for closing 71 beds at Zion Park Manor. "The l utheran Senior citizens h ousing Society…. They — not the Fha, not the government — have made the decision to close those units." a fter hearing the minister's statement, h is Grace r ev. Jefrey k oenig, senior pastor of Zion l utheran c hurch and School, wrote the following: "a s a ministry, we are very saddened by the news of Zion Park losing the beds.

That wasn't even the manor's decision. it was the government's." So my question for the minister is: who is telling the truth — Pastor Jefrey k oenig and the l utheran c hurch or the Minister of h ealth? Hon. G. Abbott: i wouldn't comment on a statement that is repeated in this chamber by this member. i've seen the nDP's ability to distort and manipulate in this chamber things that are said outside this chamber, so i certainly wouldn't comment on that. i stand 100 percent behind what i said on t uesday. This was not a decision by the government. This was not a decision by the Fraser h ealth a uthority.

This is a deci- sion by the l utheran Senior citizens h ousing Society. They own the facility; they made the decision. but i can tell the member that we have since 2001 remediated over 6,000 substandard units that we inher - ited from the nDP . We have further added over 5,400 brand-new assisted-living and residential care units in this province. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. G. Gentner: This is a government of deny, deny, deny. This government wants to point fingers at everyone else for the evictions at Zion Park Manor. They say the seniors who live there are wrong.

They say the family members there are wrong. They say the community is wrong. They even have the audacity to say the mayor of Surrey is wrong, and now the pastor at the l utheran c hurch is somehow wrong. When will the minister look in the mirror, accept the responsibility and admit he's the one that is wrong and reverse this decision? [1430] Hon. G. Abbott: it was good of the member to recycle the question from the opposition h ealth critic of t uesday. That's interesting. i guess maybe the well is get- ting a bit depleted, and we may have to leave early from this place. The well seems to be pretty much empty.

The people who are wrong here are the nDP , the opposition. They're the ones that are wrong. What we are attempting to do, what Fraser h ealth is attempting to do and what the Zion Park Manor is attempting to do is to ensure that the frail elderly that are currently resident in the aging, decaying portion of Zion Park Manor have the opportunity to transition in a sensitive and thoughtful way to one of the hundreds of brand-new units that are going to be available within minutes of the decaying structure at Zion Park Manor. FunD in G For b.c. SchiZo Phrenia Societ Y J.

Kwan: Several years ago this government cut the b.c. Schizophrenia Society's sustainability grant in the amount of $300,000. Despite the cut, the society worked hard to continue to provide services, support and educa- tion to mental health consumers and their families. That work was largely funded by donations.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13381 h owever, as the economy softens, the society is now unable to raise all the funds to fill the gap. They need $150,000 to keep this operation afloat. if funds are not forthcoming, the society may have to shut its doors in January. Will the Minister of h ealth commit today to provide the necessary funds to the b.c. Schizophrenia Society so that they can continue to help families in need? Hon. G.

Abbott: We have had, as a government, an exceptional relationship with care providers and advo- cates across the province of british c olumbia, and this organization would be no exception. My understanding is that Vancouver c oastal h ealth went to a request for proposals with respect to the services that have been provided and that, in fact, the Schizophrenia Society was unsuccessful in their pro- posal. but i can tell you, Mr.

Speaker, that the services being provided are now going to be provided in two places by the successful proponents and that the pro- gram is dramatically expanded both in budget and in the number of people who will be served. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: Sorry, wrong. it's the wrong briefing note that the minister is reading from. Fred Dawe and Michelle c olussi have been volunteer board members for the b.c. Schizophrenia Society for the past 20 years. The funds that were eliminated from the society were core funding moneys.

Fred tried desperately to contact the minister to set up a meet- ing about this issue. a n o ctober meeting turned into a n ovember request. The n ovember meeting was deferred till January. Well, a January meeting comes a little too late, because the society may be forced to close its doors. Will the minister commit today to meet with Fred and Michelle, who are in the gallery today, and to help them resolve this funding crisis that was created by this government? Hon. G.

Abbott: i would be very pleased to meet with these individuals, and we'd be glad to set that up as soon as it's convenient for the individuals who'd like to meet with me, but i'm not going to listen to any lectures from this member, nor from this opposition nDP , with respect to mental health and addictions programs.

We are, as a government, investing far more in mental health programs than was ever the case under the nDP . e very year we invest over $1 billion — i believe, in the current fiscal year, $1.2 billion — on mental health and addictions programs. a s an example of that, we have, since 2001, added 2,836 additional mental health supported beds, for a total of 77,076 beds across the province — a 57 percent increase in the supported beds for mental health. [1435] a Vailabilit Y o F lon G-terM care beDS in interior health authorit Y K.

Conroy: on t uesday and again today the Minister of h ealth talked about the need for appropriate transi- tion policies to be in place for seniors being transferred to new housing. in my community seniors are being transferred to the regional psychiatric unit while they are waiting for long-term care beds to become available. is that what the minister means by appropriate transitioning — not funding long-term care beds so that seniors are forced to live in the psychiatric ward of the regional hospital? Hon. G.

Abbott: i saw this member's comments in the media a few days ago, and i have to begin by saying how sad and unfortunate it is that this member, before she spouted off the way she did in the media, didn't take the time to speak to the interior h ealth a uthority about what was…. Well, she smiles. but i think this is sad and unfortunate — that a member would say the things that she did in the media without speaking to the families of the people who are receiving care. i think it's sad and unfortunate. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Abbott: What she said is not true.

What she said was irresponsible, reckless, dishonest and, i think, most unfortunate. The residents to which she refers are not in a psychiatric ward. They are in a separate wing of the Daly Pavilion. h ad she taken the opportunity to talk to the families, to talk to ih, she would not be in the position now where she should be apologizing to those same residents and families. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. before we continue, i advise the minister to be careful in the words that he's using. c ontinue, Member. K.

Conroy: i want to make it perfectly clear that i have talked to the iha, and it is a matter of funding. it's a matter of not being adequately funded to fund publicly funded beds. So not only do they have three seniors that are housed in the Daly Pavilion in t rail at the regional hospital; they have 11 families who have their seniors in acute care beds.

british c olumbia Debates13382 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 Meanwhile, there are ten perfectly good long-term care beds lying empty — empty because this minister will not adequately fund long-term care beds in this province or in our area. i do talk to the people in my community, and i know what's going on in my community, unlike the arrogant rhetoric that's coming from this minister. So i think it's time… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. K. Conroy: …this member started properly funding long-term care beds. There are beds there that could be funded instead of putting out the rhetoric that he does. Hon. G.

Abbott: The frail elderly and others who are waiting for residential care beds and who are currently in acute care beds…. a s i noted the other day — on t uesday — in 2001, when we took office, there was a one-year wait… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. G. Abbott: …for residential care. t oday it is about 30 days — a dramatic reduction in the wait time. alc, alternative-level-of-care, patient-days between 1996 and 2001 increased by 128 percent — 128 percent. They have been reduced by 30 percent from 2001 to today despite that. Those residents are in a self-contained wing.

They are not in the psychiatric ward. The member should apologize for that. [1440] Go VernMent SPenD in G on aDVertiS in G M. Farnworth: Well, it's been almost six weeks since the Premier made his announcement that he wants to stop wasteful government spending. but so far we've heard nothing. in fact, the only suggestions are going to come from the budgets of the independent offices of the l egislature. one thing they've made very clear is that they're not going to cancel the ads that have been running on t V ad nauseam, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

The Minister of Finance says it's because they have contrac- tual obligations. Well, my question to the Minister of Finance is this. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue. M. Farnworth: Will he table in this h ouse this afternoon those so important contracts that cannot be cancelled and stop the wasted advertising? Hon. C.

Hansen: This is interesting coming from a member who, at the time when he was a cabinet minister, as the Minister of h ealth…. i think Mike Smyth, in his column in July of 2000, labelled him as the cabinet tour- ist traveller of the world, with the highest international travel budget of any minister. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: it's interesting when we hear the members of the opposition complain about adver - tising when they themselves are blatantly flogging the picture of their leader in newspapers around the province. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. C. Hansen: blatantly flogging pictures of…. Mr. Speaker: n o props, please. Hon. C. Hansen: My apologies, Mr. Speaker. blatantly flogging pictures of their leader in advertise- ments placed around this province at taxpayers' expense. What we have seen over the last six weeks in british c olumbia is a…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C.

Hansen: What we have seen over the last six weeks is a marked distinction in the leadership offered by political parties that are represented in this chamber. o n o ctober 22 we saw the Premier come down with a ten-point plan that british c olumbians in every corner of this province have said speaks to the needs of their families, and that's in stark con- trast to the kind of leadership, or i should say the lack of leadership, that we have seen from the official opposition. instead, what we have seen is reckless spend- ing commitments. We have seen proposals that are

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13383 irresponsible in terms of the future budget of the province. [end of question period.] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) K. Conroy: i reserve my right to stand on a point of privilege. J. Kwan: i seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members J. Kwan: i ask the h ouse to please welcome Fred Dawe and Michelle c olussi, who are volunteer board members of the b.c.

Schizophrenia Society, and i'm sure that they'd be more than happy to take up the min- ister's offer in question period to meet with them today to resolve the funding crisis that this government has caused to the society. Tabling Documents Hon. W .

Oppal: i have the honour to present the fol- lowing reports: the british c olumbia Ferry c ommission annual report for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2008; the british c olumbia h uman r ights t ribunal annual report, ending 2007-08; the report on multiculturalism for 2005-06 and '06-07; the Public Guardian and t rustee of british c olumbia's annual report for 2007-2008; and the british c olumbia u tilities c ommission annual report, 2007-2008. Petitions N.

Simons: i'm presenting a petition on behalf of resi- dents of the lower Sunshine c oast, some 2,252 of them, who are asking for government to once again put pres- sure on b.c. Ferries to accommodate residents' needs, especially during peak travelling times. [1445] G. Coons: a petition to present — 286 signatures from constituents from Stewart who are concerned with the resignation of their doctors, putting their hospital in a crisis, and who are petitioning to have their hospital at full operational status. D. Routley: i seek leave to make an announcement. Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

Tributes Mar Y bo Wen -co lt hur St D. Routley: i'd like the h ouse to help me celebrate the birthday of Mary e.M. bowen-c olthurst. h er birth- day was on o ctober 26. h er birthdate was o ctober 26, 1908, which makes her a sterling 100 years old. So let's celebrate Ms. bowen-c olthurst. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: i call continued committee stage debate on bill 45. Prior to the committee commencing deliberations, the Minister of h ealth has a request of leave to make a comment. [1450] Statements WithD ra Wal o F co MMent S Hon. G.

Abbott: a few moments ago in question period, in response to a question from the member for West k ootenay–b oundary, i used an unparliamentary expression in one of my answers, and i did not wish to embarrass or offend the member. i withdraw that comment. Committee of the Whole House e cono Mic incenti Ve an D Stabili Zation Statute S aM en DMent a ct, 2008 (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 45; e conomic incentive and Stabilization Statutes a mendment a ct, 2008; S. h awkins in the chair. The committee met at 2:54 p.m. Hon. C. Hansen: i guess before we proceed with the next section, i would like to correct something that i said earlier today, because i was mistaken in something i said, and i would like to correct it on the record. i had indicated that an owner of a manufactured home that was on a rented pad, because they didn't pay property tax, would not be eligible for a property tax deferment. i have been since enlightened. it is true to say that an owner of a manufactured home on a manufac- tured home park, who rents the pad on which the home

british c olumbia Debates13384 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 sits, is liable for property taxes and, as such, would be eligible for the new temporary tax deferment program, and this is consistent with the existing tax deferment program as well. [1455]

Section 17 approved. on

section 18. B. Ralston: This amendment adds additional circum- stances in which, in

section 277 of the Financial institutions a ct, orders might be made. c an the minister explain the legislative purpose in bringing this amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: c urrently under the legislation there is a requirement that if there is an issue where the super- intendent or Fico M itself recognizes where intervention is required, the current legislation requires a two-step process. First of all, they have to put in supervision, and then, secondly, they can put in an administrator.

We believe that there is potential that there could be a circumstance, although there is certainly none that would require this that we know of today. but if there was a circumstance that required faster intervention with an administrator, without going through the stage of having a supervisor in place, this amendment would provide for that. B. Ralston: So it's simply to make it easier for Fico M to step into a credit union's financial affairs if it's war - ranted and to do so more quickly. Would that be a fair

summary then? Hon. C. Hansen: Y es, that's correct. B. Ralston: Just on the other proposed addition, sec- tion 277.2, i don't quite understand. Perhaps the minister can explain the purpose of this. i would have thought, in the delegation of powers, that that was open to the com- mission to appoint who it chose. Hon. C. Hansen: This provision is simply to make it clear that if Fico M or the superintendent appoints an administrator, the commission may also appoint addi- tional people to assist the administrator. This is a clause that's found in the bank a ct, and we felt it was appropri- ate that this be mirrored in our legislation.

Section 18 approved. on

section 19. B. Ralston:

Section 19 proposes to amend

section 285 of the Financial institutions a ct in subsection (1) by sub- stituting some language, authorizing delegation "to the stabilization authority any of the commission's powers under 277 (

a) to (

d) in relation to that credit union." c an the minister first explain what the stabilization authority is and the purpose of this proposed amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: What i'll do is just read the definition of the stabilization authority.

"The Stabilization c entral credit u nion of british c olumbia was incorporated in 1989 to introduce some elements of self-regulation within the provincial credit union system. it monitors credit unions and can take early action to correct any identified problems." credit unions must maintain membership in Stabilization c entral as a condition of holding a business authorization. Stabilization c entral supervises credit unions under direction from Fico M or credit unions that voluntarily come under its supervision. [1500] B.

Ralston: in the next subsection, it appears to repeal the present subsection (2) and appears to limit the powers of revocation — not of a delegation but of the language that follows in subsection 285(1)(d). i'm wondering. What's the purpose of that amendment? Hon. C. Hansen: The sections under subsection (2) which are being eliminated pertain only to subsection (

d) above. With the removal of subsection (

d) from sub- section (1), that particular portion of subsection (2) is no longer required. B. Ralston: The explanatory note provided with the bill says: "…removes the requirement for the c ommission to delegate powers with respect to a credit union that has asked to be put under supervision." in reading sec- tion 285, i don't see that language. So i'm wondering if my understanding of it is wrong or the note is perhaps a little bit misleading. Hon. C. Hansen: u nder the current wording, Fico M is required to delegate. it must delegate to the stabiliza- tion authority all of the commission's powers.

So we feel that in the case, for example, of a larger credit union, the Stabilization credit u nion may not have the capacity to handle the administration of a very large entity. So the requirement, as it was currently worded, was that it must be delegated. by removing this subsection (d), it allows for Fico M itself to step in and administer, should that be a more appropriate way to provide that oversight.

Section 19 approved. on

section 20. B. Ralston: The explanatory note says simply that this "repeals the regulation-making power made redundant

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13385 by the proposed amendment to

section 266 (2)…." This is basically just legislative tidying up. is that correct? Hon. C. Hansen: This is just consequential amend- ments. if we remove the threshold from $100,000 and lift it to unlimited, then the references to separate accounts become moot. Therefore, we're removing it from the act.

Section 20 approved. on

section 21. B. Ralston: This proposes an amendment to

section 49 of the l aw and e quity a ct. The explanatory note says that it "provides the same rights to designated benefici- aries of holders of tax-free savings accounts as exist for designated beneficiaries of holders of retirement savings plans registered under the Income Tax Act…." i take it that this amendment is designed to accom- modate the new federal — i think it's called tFSa — tax-free savings account of a maximum of $5,000 a year that comes into force on January 1, 2009, if i under- stand correctly. Hon. W . Oppal: Y es. The simple answer is yes.

This amendment, as well, adds to the definition of "regis- tered plan" so that a beneficiary designate would not be in a position wherein the funds in a plan would go to intestacy or go to an estate rather than to the beneficiary designate. B. Ralston: So that would be, just for the public who may be watching or interested, much like an rrSP , where one designates a beneficiary.

Those accounts, as a part of the process of opening them up, would require you to designate a beneficiary. if you are so unfortunate as to die, that amount passes immediately through to the designated beneficiary and not through your estate and all the process of probating an estate. is that accurate? [1505] Hon. W . Oppal: Y es. The answer is yes.

Section 21 approved. on

section 22. B. Ralston: This is a separate amendment to a separate act, the Pension benefits Standards a ct, and it refers to what are called additional voluntary contributions. i'm wondering if the minister could define what is meant by additional voluntary contributions and why it is neces- sary to bring this amendment. Hon. W . Oppal: Well, the purpose here is to protect the additional voluntary contributions so they can have the same protection and the same force and effect as other contributions that may be made to a plan. B.

Ralston: Just so that i understand why the amend- ment is necessary. a t the present time additional voluntary contributions to…. These are private pensions, i take it, not rr SPs. a re they not protected from the process of, i think it is, execution, seizure or attachment? is that correct? Hon. W . Oppal: Perhaps i didn't make it clear. The additional voluntary contributions to pensions are not currently protected. They are treated similar to contri- butions to rrSPs for most purposes. They are simply administered by a pension plan administrator instead of an rrSP administrator. B.

Ralston: i guess that in practical terms, if there are additional voluntary contributions, how would someone who is a creditor who is seeking execution….? in the past would they have been commingled? Do they keep separate accounts? is it partly just to simplify adminis- tration that this amendment is brought, or is there some broader purpose? Hon. W . Oppal: They would, in the circumstances, keep separate accounts. B.

Ralston: Just to make sure i understand, then. if this amendment were to pass, that segregation of the additional voluntary and the other contributions would no longer be necessary because they would all be exempt from attachment or seizure. is that right? Hon. W . Oppal: The segregation of the funds would continue because there are other reasons for that, but they would not be subject to seizure. That's the import- ant issue here. [1510] B.

Ralston: Then i take it that in the cases of the exceptions…. i notice a reference in the proposed amendment to a maintenance order as defined in the Family Maintenance enforcement a ct. Would that portion which would otherwise be beyond execution or seizure be kept in a separate account and available should that be necessary in the case of a family mainten- ance enforcement action? Hon. W . Oppal: The answer is yes. The family main- tenance enforcement program would be in a position where they could seize them because of the policy reasons.

That is, under the FMeP , children are the bene- ficiaries of those funds. The intent is to recognize that the interests of children take priority over the retirement benefits that may accrue to any person who is a holder of one of these plans.

british c olumbia Debates13386 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 B. Ralston: Just so i understand the exemptions, then. in the existing

section 63(3.1)…. it's referred to in (3.2)(c). That list of exemptions — excess contributions, notice of attachment, an order of garnishment and an attachment order — continues in the current

section 63(3.1). is that correct? Hon. W . Oppal: The answer is yes.

Section 22 approved. on

section 23. B. Ralston: We now move in the bill to what's called

part 3, "Property Value a ssessment." These are a proposed series of amendments brought to various acts concerning the assessment process here in british c olumbia. This obviously was initiated by an announcement by the Premier at that most non-partisan of all forums in the province, the b.c. l iberal convention up in Whistler. That's where the announcement was first made public. i think many have been struck by the haste with which these amendments appear to have been put together.

Mr. c ayo, who is a columnist with The Vancouver Sun who writes on financial matters, has been in discussion with the minister and reported on some of those discussions in the newspaper. [1515] What is striking about this series of proposed amend- ments following upon the Premier's announcement is just how scrambled and how at cross-purposes these various announcements and proposed amendments — zigzags of policy — all seem to be.

The minister is quoted, and perhaps he can begin by clarifying this, if he chooses to. h e conceded — and this is referring to the minister — that the program had been announced before all the details were worked out, a deci- sion he defended as an effort to get some good news out fast to help calm people's response to economic turmoil. Will the minister confirm that the primary objective of these amendments is to get out some purported good news rather than to make good, responsible tax policy here in the l egislature of british c olumbia? [S. h ammell in the chair.] Hon. K.

Krueger: i'd like to begin by introducing the people who are with me in the chamber. t o my right is Mr. bob de Faye, the Deputy Minister of Small business, r evenue and r egulatory r eform. t o my left is Ms. c onnie Fair, the president and chief executive officer of b.c. a ssessment, and behind us is Mr. r ob Fraser, the executive director of the Small business and r evenue property assessment services branch. in answer to the critic's question, our economy in british c olumbia is underpinned by the government's solid fiscal performance over the last seven-plus years delivering on our fiscal plan. it's reinforced by the meas- ures that gave rise to the legislation before us, including this one. it's the government's desire and intent — and this legislation follows through on those — to protect british c olumbians from the kind of distress that's being experienced by people around the world in the current global economic turmoil. b.c. a ssessment, as i think everyone in this chamber agrees, is a superbly well-run organization.

Ms. Fair has a long history of working with them, and it's been my distinct pleasure to be thoroughly briefed by Ms. Fair and by the board of b.c. a ssessment since my appoint- ment to this position in June. in our discussions over the months between June 23 and now, we talked about the fact that assessment property values had been rising tremendously quickly for quite some time in british c olumbia. in o ctober Ms.

Fair and the chair of the authority booked a brief- ing meeting with me and said that their data revealed that sometime in May the real estate market in british c olumbia peaked. a s the critic is aware, i'm sure, valuation dates for suc- cessive assessment years are July 1 of the previous year.

So the 2008 roll was based on a valuation date of July 1, 2007. in the normal course of events, the 2009 roll would have been based on the valuation date of July 1, 2008. in this briefing i was advised by these people, who are universally respected, that the decline in real estate sales prices was demonstrating to them that the b.c. a ssessment roll, which in the normal course of events would have been produced — and assessment notices would have gone out — in January, was going to be somewhere between 10 and 11 percent too high for the actual values.

They showed me graphs, which i believe are now on their websites and available for public viewing, that demonstrated a downward trend and at that time dem- onstrated that the values had dropped to about the value of n ovember 2007, rather than the higher values of July 1, 2008. The words stand out clearly in my mind that the assess- ment authority was tremendously concerned about this.

So we talked about how we should respond to that, and there were various suggestions. of course, the decline isn't the same in all parts of the province. u ltimately, the cabinet made a decision that we would rely on the most solid benchmark that we know we have, which is the 2008 assessment roll based on a valuation date of July 1, 2007. That roll has already been through the appeal process for those who wanted to appeal. i believe that 98.4 percent of titleholders did not appeal. Some properties — and they are in the very small minority — are still working through the process for various reasons. [1520]

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13387 The decision that was made is the one that we'll be talking about in the next sections of the legislation, and that is that we would publish a 2009 roll providing both the 2009 and 2008 numbers, which are entirely the creations of the normal process of b.c. assessments but using the lower of the two numbers. o ne of my duties in this position is to review taxpayer appeals personally, because they appeal directly to me.

The ones that i have reviewed to date…. i have not seen anyone appeal that their assessment is too high. i'm told that that happens on occasion, but i haven't seen any of those. So the government believes that it would have been a matter of very substantial concern to british c olumbians if well over a million assessments came out showing assessed values on people's homes and businesses that they would feel were too high, because they were. That is why we made the move that we did.

The critic presumes to quote a newspaper columnist who was not saying that he was quoting myself. h e was giving a Reader's Digest condensed version of a conver - sation between us. but the point that i made was…. h e asked me why government wouldn't have waited until all of the questions that could be asked about a decision like this had been answered. i responded that that would have taken months, and the process is such that the roll needed to go into production with the authority's com- puter. The assessments need to come out in January.

This is a decision that we felt then and feel now would undergird the public's confidence in the authority, in the process and would, coupled with the other extraordinary measures of this legislation, reassure british c olumbians that our province will continue to operate with remark- able stability, with a growing economy and under the care of a government that cares very much about the personal circumstances of all british c olumbians. B.

Ralston: Well, i accept what the minister says about the professionalism of the board of directors of b.c. a ssessment. i have the digest of their governance practices here with me. i'm looking at 5(2). They have a working relationship with the responsible minister. They meet regularly with the minister to provide advice and recommendations.

The minister has an open invita- tion to attend all board and committee meetings of b.c. a ssessment. but would the minister not agree that in this circum- stance it's highly unusual to intervene directly in the operation of an independently constituted board run by very professional standards in order to put together an announcement for the Premier to make at the l iberal Party convention? c ertainly, political conventions have their place in the political process. e veryone understands that. o bviously, there's a certain understandable partisan rhetoric that takes place at a political convention, but surely…. is the minister not prepared to agree that what really happened here was that the Premier wanted something to announce to the convention and that this process was rushed through, over the objections of the professional advice that he had from b.c. a ssessment, in order to make a political splash up at the convention at Whistler? isn't that really what happened here?

Hon. K. Krueger: n o, that isn't true at all. There were no objections from the assessment authority. i would not have been aware — and the government would not have been aware — of the details of the problem if the assessment authority hadn't fulfilled its obligation to british c olumbians to come forward and say: "This pro- cess, which we do so thoroughly…." i'd already been well briefed on how they do assess- ments. i had toured their office in k amloops. i had seen a personal example on my own house of how thorough the authority is and how detailed its market information is.

These people responsible for this system, knowing it inside and out, came to me and said: "We are very concerned." [1525] What would a responsible nDP government — if there ever was such a thing, and i've never seen it — do with that information? british c olumbia has had the misfortune of two nDP governments, and they've been a disaster both times. i got a letter from one of the member's colleagues, and it was pages of: "Did you do a study on this?

Did you do a study on that?" Y ou know, it's classic, because that's what we saw in the ten sad years of the '90s. it was analysis paralysis — a government that just wasn't capable of making a good decision or doing the right thing, a government that brought about the foundering of the economy and took us from best-performing economy in c anada to worst and kept us there for ten years. a ctually, the member's question is a cynical and crass question, and in fact, there were no protests from b.c. a ssessment. in fact, we have operated with their profes- sional advice throughout, and the system itself operates in lockstep. it has very clearly laid out how an assess- ment roll is produced, and the only way to change that is to do an amendment to the act, which is what we have before us.

B. Ralston: Well, i can see that i'm not going to get an answer to that particular question. is the minister, then, saying that the advice that was announced — to freeze the assessments at the 2007 level — at the conven- tion was the advice that was given by b.c. a ssessment? because it became very apparent rather quickly that that wasn't going to work, and then this system of the dual assessment dates was adopted a little bit later. is this, again, advice from the assessment authority, or is the minister going to accept responsibility for making

british c olumbia Debates13388 t hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 the decision himself — not blaming the highly talented professional advice that he got? i can't believe that there wasn't a note of caution in advice that was given to the minister. Given his responses here, i'd be interested in hearing how it moved from advice to freeze on one date to advice to have a choice between two dates. Hon. K.

Krueger: The word "freeze" was introduced in the chamber just now by that member. it's not the word that the Premier used in his announcement. in any event, it's difficult to come up with exactly the right word for the delicate thing that needed to be done here. c ertainly, i had concerns, and the government did too. So did the authority. because government's role is to make policy and set policy, and the civil service role and the various crown corporations' and authorities' role is to implement policy.

This is a very unusual circumstance that the world is in economically. it's been referred to as an economic earth- quake. i wonder what the member would think in a real earthquake. Should government not act on a question like this if people's houses had fallen down? Well, we have seen economic turmoil all around the world.

There was an opportunity here to make sure that an error did not occur that was about to occur in the normal course of events. [h. b loy in the chair.] We absolutely continued to confer, from the time that i was alerted to the problem in that briefing meeting through the time of the announcement, through the creation of the legislation.

The consultations included consultations with the ubcM. i tried to reach the president of the ubcM just before the Premier was going to announce this measure. i missed him, left a voice mail and talked to him right after. a ctually, the ubcM doesn't have a big problem with these changes. They want to make sure it's a temporary thing, and it is — for the 2009 year alone, that assess- ment roll alone. it will be repealed January 10 of 2010, so it is a temporary measure. They want to make sure that they participate with us in communication.

They want to make sure that people understand that assessments are one issue and that mill rates and taxation decisions are another, and the latter…. J. Les: They don't understand that over there. Hon. K. Krueger: The member says that they don't understand that. i don't know that the members opposite do, because that's the truth of the matter. l ocal govern- ments decide levels of taxation.

They make a lot of such decisions, completely independent of the province. [1530] in fact, b.c. a ssessment continues to operate independently and is applying its professional expertise to make sure that this is done right — have given us excellent advice in preparation of the legislation and are conducting the administration of the matter. B. Ralston: Well, i would suggest that the global tur - moil is mirrored by the turmoil in the minister's office in attempting to handle this botched piece of legislation and get it here before the h ouse.

The minister says that he left a message for President h obson. i have a letter here that's dated n ovember 17, 2008, from Gary Macisaac, who's the executive director of the u nion of b.c.

Municipalities. h e says in the letter here: "The ubcM was not consulted in advance of this announcement, although President h obson did receive a phone call from the hon. minister on n ovember 1, just prior to the announcement being made." Given that the assessment rolls are the basis on which municipalities set their mill rate and begin their budget process, and given the integral link between those two — the keen interest of ubcM over the years and under - standable interest in those processes — i'm surprised that the ubcM wasn't consulted. So will the minister confirm what's said in this letter by Mr.

Macisaac — that the ubcM was not consulted and that he left a voice mail for the president immedi- ately before the Premier made his announcement at the b.c. l iberal convention in Whistler? Hon. K.

Krueger: i'm pleased that the critic confirms what i just said — that it was Mr. h obson that i left a message for and that i spoke with after. but in fact, since that announcement there has been a lot of dialogue between b.c. a ssessment and the ubcM. on n ovember 12, for example, there was a meet- ing between Gary Maci saac, the executive director of the ubcM; brenda Gibson, the general manager of ubcM; Dale Wall, the deputy minister, Ministry of c ommunity Development; r ob Fraser, who's here with us in the chamber, the executive director of prop- erty assessment services, Ministry of Small business and r evenue; and blair Schumacher, the manager of property assessment services, Ministry of Small business and r evenue.

There has been a lot of dialogue and correspond- ence between ministry staff and the authority since, and both the authority and the government believe that this legislation sets out the mechanism where we can deliver on what is a really strong piece, stabilizing british c olumbians' confidence in their government, in the authority and in the correctness of the assessments that people receive on their homes. if any have doubts in that the system will produce a roll which will have the lower of the numbers for the July 1, 2007 to July 1, 2008 valuation dates, if people feel their property value is actually below those, they will have all the normal rights of appeal through property assessment

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, n ovember 27, 2008 13389 review panels, the Property a ssessment a ppeal board — everything that's always been available to them. B. Ralston: in those meetings, i understand — judg- ing from what's said in this letter from Mr. Maci saac — the ubcM expressed its deep concern about moving away from market-based assessment. i'm quoting from the letter from Mr.

Maci saac, the executive director of the ubcM: "once the province moves away from mar - ket-based assessment to something else, it is challenging to return to the original system." one of the strengths of b.c. a ssessment and the reason it's held in such high esteem in other jurisdic- tions is that it is a market-based system with integrity and absence of political intervention and with well- known principles that deliver accurate assessment rolls each year to the 1.8 million properties — i think it is — in b ritish c olumbia. So when an organization like the u nion of b.c .

Municipalities expresses that kind of concern — and there are other organizations, and i'll reference those as well — what is the minister's response? Why was this undertaken, given the deep concern that not only the ubc M has but other organizations which i'll refer to shortly? [1535] The very messy, confusing result does not appear to….

The process doesn't appear to justify that, and it's a difficult, i think…. a nd i'll get to the further objec- tions of the ubcM shortly as to why they think this is a problem. but will the minister agree that moving away from a market-based assessment, the very fundamental prin- ciple of b.c. a ssessment, is a mistake? Hon. K. Krueger: i wonder if the opposition doesn't think that having almost all of the assessments on the 2009 roll…. k nowingly going into a situation where almost all of them would be too high would be a much messier situation. This situation arose not through error on anybody's

part in british c olumbia. it started, as the member knows, with a mistake in financing in the u .S.a., has swept the world and rocked it, but not rocked most indi- vidual british c olumbians very much. They would have been rocked by having assessments which, on average, we believed would be at least 10 percent to 11 percent too high for residential, an average of 21.6 percent too high for businesses — people justifiably upset right across the board.

This is a macro adjustment on a market-valued basis. it is the assessment authority which is the expert on what values were July 1, 2007, on what they were July 1, 2008, and as close as anyone can be expert, on what they are right now. but we have a system in place for people to appeal, as i already said. They can do that if they wish to, and our very best benchmark is the existing roll. When the member speaks scornfully of having both numbers on the same assessment….

They always do. l ast year's assessment number is always shown on this year's roll when the assessment notices come out to people. but in this case the authority, through the author - ity of this legislation, is going to use the lower of the numbers. it's difficult to see why this is so difficult for these members to understand. i can't believe that the authority the critic relies on is a newspaper columnist who clearly didn't know what was going to be produced. i wasn't going to tell him the details of legislation that hadn't come before the h ouse yet. i did phone him to offer some clarification of the direction we were going on a Friday. h e told my assist- ant he was on holidays so he couldn't take the call, and the column was published on Saturday — about which i think he's quite embarrassed now, as he probably is about a subsequent one.

Probably the greatest embar - rassment of all to him is that he's being quoted by a socialist opposition that clearly doesn't know what it's talking about. The recommendations that come at the end of the letter that the critic is referring to, written by Mr.

Gary Macisaac of the ubcM, are only three. h e recommends, first, that the assessment freeze is a temporary measure limited to this year only, with no opportunity to continue the freeze without future legis- lative amendments. i've already confirmed on the record — the member has it in front of him in the legislation — that that is the case. it'll be repealed by this same legis- lation January 1, 2010. Second recommendation: consultation with ubcM on all remaining aspects of the assessment freeze, including details of the legislative amendments and adjustment mechanism and any other ancillary changes.

Y ou see this dealt with in the legislation. The people who are with me have been conferring with the ubcM and will continue to do that, and that's a regular and ongoing thing. This government has tremendous respect for the ubcM. The Premier is a former chair of the ubcM, as the member should know. a nd then the third recommendation: provincial com- munication with property owners clarifying that the freeze on assessment is separate and distinct from property tax rates set by local governments and other taxing jurisdic- tions, as well as explaining the mechanics of the freeze.

Well, i just put that on the record, although it didn't real

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1127pm 05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1127pm 05
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8965dfe6046401f5a2c7ebdafacd295fa995e69a

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