Government Services Committee — 6 May 2015

2015-05-06

Newfoundland and Labrador — Committees

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May 25,

GOVERNMENT

SERVICES COMMITTEE

The

Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Forsey):

As I said, we are going to be doing the Commission review first this morning,

Minister Collins, and then we are going to continue on with Service NL.

Before I do, I will call for the subheads.

CLERK (Ms Murphy):

Subhead 5.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead

5.1.01.

Before we get into the questions, I do not know if the

minister will have an introduction or just introduce his staff.

I will ask for the introduction of our Committee and the people

attending. I will

start with you, Paul. If we could

get

MR. LANE:

Paul Lane, MHA for the

District of Mount Pearl South.

MR. SIMMS:

Randy Simms, Official Opposition Office, Research.

MR. MURPHY:

George Murphy, MHA for St.

John's East.

MR. MORGAN:

Ivan Morgan, Researcher, NDP caucus.

MR. DINN:

John Dinn, MHA, Kilbride.

MR. PEACH:

Calvin Peach, MHA, Bellevue.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Kevin Parsons, MHA for the

beautiful District of Cape St. Francis.

CHAIR:

I am Clayton Forsey, MHA for

Exploits and Chair of Government Services.

Before

you introduce yourself there, Minister, we circulated some minutes of the

Government Services Committee May 6, 2015, for the Government Purchasing Agency.

Can I

have a motion to adopt these minutes?

MR. DINN:

So moved.

CHAIR:

Moved by John Dinn.

Do I

need a seconder?

CLERK:

No.

CHAIR:

Okay.

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

Thank you.

motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR:

Okay, Minister, back to you.

You can introduce your staff, and if anybody responds to a question it

would be nice to identify yourself when you do so the media can pick you up.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Perfect.

Okay.

Well, I am Sandy Collins, Minister Responsible and MHA for Terra Nova

District, and I am joined by three staff.

I will allow them to give their names and full titles, if they will,

starting with Marlene over to my right.

MS HICKEY:

Marlene Hickey, Chief Review Commissioner with the Review Division.

MS BISHOP:

I am Jean Bishop, I am the Manager of Operations with the Review Division.

MR. CURTIS:

Hi, I am Ken Curtis, I am the Departmental Controller.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Okay, that is it?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Yes.

Well, it is only one page, and of course I thought it would be important

to have this today and to particularly be joined by staff, so if there are any

questions the folks opposite have.

I know in the House of Assembly we go back and forth and have questions, but it

is nice to be able to direct them to staff as well.

The

Review Division, obviously, hears appeals from the decisions made by WHSCC.

It is pretty limited in its scope with regard to what we are speaking

about here today, but anyhow, we would be happy to take any questions they have.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Thank you, Minister.

guess, Paul, if we go a bit long we can go ten minutes and pass it over to

George maybe, but we will start with you.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

First

of all, I just want to go through a couple of line by lines.

There is not much there, as you said, but the Professional Services under

well, it is all 5.1.01, actually.

Professional Services; the 2014-2015 budget was $200,000, and you spent

$122,000. This year you are at

$142,000. So there is a bit of a

variance there on this one. If you

can explain the variance, please?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Well, most importantly,

Paul, with regard to 2015-2016, the $142,500.

We are re-profiling $57,500, a portion from that, to go towards a new

full-time Commissioner. In addition

to the $57,500 that will be reprofiled from that line, $37,500 will be an

additional amount coming from the WHSCC fund.

Again, we are anticipating about $90,000 to $95,000 for the salary of

another full-time Commissioner, and that is where those dollars would come from.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Minister, you are saying $57,500 is coming up for a Commissioner.

A full-time Commissioner is $98,000 you say?

MR. S. COLLINS:

We anticipate between

$90,000 and $95,000. The $57,500

and the $37,500 would give you $95,000.

So between $90,000 and $95,000 is the anticipated cost.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

You say

$37,500, I believe you said or something like that, is coming from the workers'

comp fund. I was always of the

impression maybe I am incorrect, so if you can clarify.

I was always of the impression that the workers' comp review division,

the funding was 100 per cent from the workers' comp fund; 100 per cent employer

paid, not taxpayer paid. Was I

incorrect or is there something I am missing here in terms of

MS HICKEY:

No, you are absolutely

correct, Mr. Lane. The funding for

the Review Division is 100 per cent recoverable from the WHSC injury fund.

With

respect to your question there about the $200,000 allocated in last year's

budget and $122,000 spent, that number fluctuates depending upon the volume of

cases that are heard in a given year.

Each Review Commissioner is paid $750 per case.

If we do 100 cases by part-time Review Commissioners, that is $75,000.

So that number varies.

What we

have done this year is because we knew we would have to spend $57,500 anyway in

$750 increments, we took $57,500 from the original forecast of $200,000 back

last year and we have taken as well that $57,500, put that in salaries, and we

have asked for additional funding in salaries of $37,500 to cover that

additional salary for a full-time Commissioner.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

What

you are doing is the $200,000 then would have been used for these part-time

Commissioners, we will say, and basically you are saying instead of having a

bunch of part-time people, we are going to take some of that money and throw

some more into it from the injury fund to have a full-time permanent person to

deal with claims.

MS HICKEY:

Yes, we are.

A dedicated resource gives us a lot more flexibility in the scheduling

and our ability to manage and process the cases.

We have done a little bit of looking around in terms of the salary that

would be expected and it comes in at around $90,000 or $95,000.

MR. LANE:

Okay, thank you.

The

next line then, Purchased Services was $167,000 but last year you spent

$120,000. There was $47,500 that

was not spent, but you are budgeting it again.

What would that have been attributed to?

MR. S. COLLINS:

The $167,500 was allocated

for a lease renewal, and we anticipated that lease going up.

We were not able to finalize it and, hence, we realized some savings.

Again, it is in there for this year, the $167,500.

It is for the renewal of the lease and you would be familiar with that

at the bottom of Mount Carson, at the intersection of Mount Carson and is it

Canada Drive?

OFFICIAL:

Commonwealth.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Commonwealth, sorry; I need

to get my Mount Pearl geography better.

Again,

I think the lease went from $90,000 to $120,000 and that would be reflected in

that increase.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Going

back then to the other point we were speaking on, the Review Commissioners, the

fact that you had budgeted $200,000 last year, yet you only spent $122,000.

That means it was a little better than half; maybe 60 per cent was spent

and 40 per cent was not spent.

Can you

tell us why that money was not spent?

Particularly given the fact that we had, as we all know, a number of

outstanding cases which got quite a bit of attention, so I would assume that

this is directly linked. Obviously,

if cases are not being heard, money is not being spent.

Can you explain what happened there?

MS HICKEY:

Certainly.

Last

year, we had a Review Commissioner go on leave for an illness.

We had another Review Commissioner on maternity leave, and myself, I had

some family illness. So our

availability last year as Review Commissioners was very limited, but it was all

for short periods of time.

It was

not such that we could have somebody else appointed in the interim because it

takes so long to get these individuals up and trained.

We would all be back in our seats before these individuals would be

trained. That is why part of the

rationale for the full-time, dedicated resource is because as part-time Review

Commissioners, with only one full-time, the Review Division is very vulnerable

in terms of its ability to continue processing cases.

Last

year, I think we did 200 hearings, which in fact was not too bad considering the

availability of Review Commissioners, and we did them throughout the Province.

The year before that when we were at full strength, the first year I was

appointed, we actually did 300 cases that year.

We hope

this year to go back in and hopefully these dollars will reflect that next

year to be worth the investment. We

hope to hit the 300-plus mark on hearings again for this coming year.

We do receive about 300 applications a year.

Hopefully that will sort of neutralize itself and balance out at the end

of the day.

MR. LANE:

Yes.

You had

three permanent people last year, including yourself.

Is that correct?

MS HICKEY:

No, no, no.

There are five Review Commissioners.

I am the only permanent full-time.

MR. LANE:

Okay, so in terms of the

full-time people, it is just you

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

now there is going to be

two, and, what, three part-time?

MS HICKEY:

We can have up to seven. Right now,

there are two vacancies. So the

full-time will fill one of those vacancies and there is an opportunity to

appoint another part-time person.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Last

year, in total you had how many people: yourself, full-time, and five part-time?

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Now, as of today, you have

or is this position filled, by the way?

MS HICKEY:

No, we are in the process of recruiting for this position right now.

MR. LANE:

Okay, so you are

anticipating that is going to be happening soon?

MS HICKEY:

Within the next month, absolutely.

MR. LANE:

Then you will have two

full-time and how many part-time, three?

MS HICKEY:

Four.

MR. LANE:

Four?

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Are the four filled or they

have to be filled?

MS HICKEY:

No, they are filled but there is still one vacancy which we hope to have filled

this year as well.

MR. LANE:

Okay, so you have a maximum

of five and two.

MS HICKEY:

Yes, the maximum is seven by legislation.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

CHAIR:

You have time for one more

question, Paul, before we go

MR. LANE:

There is money in the budget

there for the fifth part-timer?

MS HICKEY:

Oh, yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

CHAIR:

Paul, you have time for one

more question.

MR. LANE:

Okay, you can go to George

and then come back to me.

CHAIR:

Okay, that is fine.

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks

to the staff for coming out here today.

We have had the pleasure, I guess, once or twice of working with some of

the Commissioners in there keep it up.

guess, Mr. Minister, just a couple of policy questions because I think the line

items are pretty much covered for here.

I want to come back to the caseload of issues that are outstanding there

now versus what they were this time last year.

Do you anticipate having picked up on the backlog in the next little

while? What is the plan for that?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Yes, absolutely.

As Ms Hickey had just talked about, the issues that we had last with

regard to people going off on maternity leave, sick leave and those types of

things, we have improved quite a bit and actually we are turning around

decisions, currently. The most

recent data shows us we are turning around decisions within thirty days.

That was considerably longer last year due to the fact we had people on

leave.

Whereas it took months last

year, we are within thirty days, currently, when you look at our most recent

numbers.

We have

made great progress and I think that is just evident in what can be done when

you are fully staffed. We are not

even there yet. When we get the

second full-time person, I think you will even see improvements on that.

MR. MURPHY:

So you are looking at

roughly a thirty-day turnaround in cases now?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Currently, but again it is

important to look at there are a number of variables.

Of course that is what we can do when everything goes smoothly, but then

there are variables on the outside with regard to the person's case we are

hearing. They may want to call in

new witnesses, or they may change representation, or they may submit a new

doctor's letter or something. So

that can throw off that thirty days; but if everything is in order and when they

bring it to us, we are very confident that we can have it done within that

thirty days, if everything is straightforward and there is continuity

throughout.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

I just

wanted to get an update on some of the other initiatives as well.

Safe Work NL's Who Wants to Save a Life? how are these programs working

out? We are looking at partnership

with Skills Canada of course and we have Workplace Safety 3220, the high school

course, as well. Can you give us an

update on what is happening there?

MR. S. COLLINS:

I do not want to wade into

those waters too much here as it is not really relevant, but I will say I know

that just a short time ago I gave a Ministerial Statement with regard to Who

Wants to Save a Life? and we have had great success with that.

You can see the rates in the Province have dropped but they seem to have

plateaued, as we have talked about, George.

We are

always trying to get that number down lower.

Certainly, we have seen great success, particularly with the younger age

people. I think when you look at

the demographic of that show, if I can talk about that in particular, we have

seen success in that, but there is still work to be done definitely.

MR. MURPHY:

If we can get into some

statistics out there, what was the lost-time incident rate in 2014 here in the

Province? Has there been any

noticeable drop in that?

MS. HICKEY:

That would all come through

in the Commission's annual reporting.

That is information

MR. S. COLLINS:

I can certainly get you that

number.

MS HICKEY:

That is information directly

related to the WHSCC and not the Review Division, so I would not have that

information readily available but it is generally reported in their annual

report each year.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. S. COLLINS:

George, if I can, I can get

that for you this afternoon because I do have that.

That was a number with regard to what I said, it is at a historical low

but it seems to have plateaued in the last number of years.

I can guess at the number. I

would not do that; I will get it for you this afternoon.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay and if we can have an

update as well around workplace violence and working alone initiatives.

I do not know what the workers' division has been doing as regards to any

work around those circles. I do not

know if you can give us an update.

MR. S. COLLINS:

There is again, as with

regard to the last, I can certainly endeavour to get you some information on

that.

MR. MURPHY:

Sure, great.

Are

there some sectors out there where workplaces need improvement in getting active

safety committees and a safety culture in place?

Are we still dealing with some issues out there where I hate to say it

people almost believe that they do not have a role in safety in the workplace?

It is

hard to put a finger on it, exactly, but there are some workplaces out there

that are still dealing with I suppose they have a refusal to believe that they

have a role to play in workplace safety almost.

How does Workers' define that and how do they meet that challenge?

CHAIR:

Excuse me, I will probably

butt in here; we are doing the Review Commission now this morning.

This is not but if you want to

MR. S. COLLINS:

George, we can have a chat

about that

MR. MURPHY:

Sure.

MR. S. COLLINS:

because I understand where

you are going with that. There are

some areas I think I know what you are referring to, but we can have that chat

certainly.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, I appreciate that.

MR. S. COLLINS:

No problem.

MR. MURPHY:

I want to talk about the

number of Occupational Health and Safety Officer positions that are out there

too.

OFFICIAL:

That is Service NL.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Yes.

MR. MURPHY:

That is Service NL; that is

right. That is farther on.

Mr.

Chair, at this particular time, I do not have any other questions right now

around this particular section.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Thank you, George.

Paul,

do you have anything?

MR. LANE:

Yes, I do.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. LANE:

Thank you.

First

of all go, going back to what George alluded to, can you tell us exactly what

the number of backlog cases are at the Review Division last year compared to

this year, where we currently stand?

Minister, I heard you refer to the fact that the turnaround time was

thirty days and I think that is a legislative turnaround time I thought it was

sixty but if it is thirty that is good.

That is great, but having a turnaround for the new cases does nothing for

all the backlog cases that were there.

I am just wondering the exact numbers of how many are backlogged.

MS HICKEY:

We have 140 cases in

backlog.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Do you want to say that

again, Marlene?

MS HICKEY:

We have 140 cases in

backlog.

MR. LANE:

One hundred and forty in

backlog.

MS HICKEY:

One hundred and forty.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MS HICKEY:

Seventy of those cases, we

have been notified that the individuals are not ready to proceed.

That means, as Minister Collins had said earlier, those folks are

generally waiting for something.

They are either waiting for their union rep to become available.

They are waiting to see a physician to have a medical report.

Some of these individuals may not be well and are not ready to proceed at

this time, waiting for treatment, et cetera; but, right now, we do have 140

cases and seventy of those are on hold and seventy of them are ready to be

heard.

If you

file an application at the Review Division today, and baring no obstacles in the

processing of your application, you will have a hearing early this fall.

The hearings I did in May, this month, were mostly applications that were

submitted to the Review Division in the fall past.

MR. LANE:

In the fall, okay.

That is certainly not thirty days.

That is like five months or what have you.

MS HICKEY:

Yes. The thirty days, when we

monitor and report our timing, our timing is broken down really into two

segments. It is from application to

hearing and hearing to decision.

Application to hearing is a period of time, for the most part, that we rarely

have a lot of control over. We do

have some control over it in terms of if an individual is ready to proceed with

their our application, we can pretty much be ready within, say, three months,

but a lot of these individuals are not.

That is where those seventy people are.

They are not ready to proceed.

So then

that adds on to the time because the clock starts ticking when the application

comes in. What we strive to do

and we have had some success since January came in once a hearing is

completed, we are trying to get a decision out to a worker within thirty days.

The last number that we looked at, we are now turning 90 per cent of them

around in thirty days. That is from

a hearing to a decision. That is

the piece that we can control and we work within our office, within our

resources and supports, to get a decision to an individual within thirty days.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

So it is thirty days once their case is heard?

MS HICKEY: Yes.

MR. LANE: Okay.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, personally.

MS HICKEY:

Overall (inaudible)

MR. LANE:

My concern is not about the

thirty days from once they see a Commissioner.

My concern is how long it takes a person to actually get in front of that

Commissioner. Grant it, I would

agree with you, there are times that it is the worker who chooses to seek

additional information, medical or whatever the case might be.

The concern I have and I have heard from injured workers who have told

me that they might have waited six months or seven months to even get heard.

somebody, obviously, is in a situation whereby they are availing of workers'

compensation or they are not and they feel they should be, what do they do for

six or seven months while they are waiting to hear their case and then another

thirty days on top of that? In the

meantime, they are starving to death or they are on Income Support or whatever

the case might be.

What is

being done to ensure that once somebody puts in an application and they are

ready and they do not need information, they are waiting for the Review

Division, that they are going to be heard?

MS HICKEY:

A full-time Review Commissioner is what hope will be the appropriate response to

that. We will see the results of

that by this fall. With another

full-time Review Commissioner we can possibly do another eight to ten extra

cases a month.

Right

now, we are doing about twenty-five cases a month amongst us all.

With an extra full-time person, we have that individual five days a week,

just as I am available five days a week.

With the part-time individuals, that availability is less.

They have to travel sometimes.

They just do not have the schedule.

They did not commit to full-time; they committed to part-time.

We are hoping, with a full-time Review Commissioner, we will be able to

take a real big chunk out of our wait time.

As it

is right now, if you filed today, you will be heard the fall, so you are looking

at about four to six months. The

other piece that also factors into that is the complexity of the file that we

are trying to schedule. Sometimes

files are, as you know, thousands of pages, and it takes a long time for some of

our staff to get through those files.

We go through a page-by-page review to redact any private information,

personal information, that is not related to the matter under review and we

spend a lot of time preparing for the hearing.

So the

bigger the file, the longer the wait time is for that.

As well, the more that we do upfront, the more assistive it is to workers

and employers when they get to the hearing, we do not have any delays, everyone

understands the process, and they have a copy of the file.

We hope we have provided them with as much assistance as we could by the

time they actually get to a hearing.

Just to

answer your question more directly, another full-time Commissioner, we hope,

will be the answer to that, for sure.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Can you

tell me what is the legislative requirement, because I am pretty sure and I

stand to be corrected when I went through the legislation that there is a

legislative requirement that within so many days of somebody filing an

application with the Review Division that their case will be heard.

That is not talking about once it is heard that it takes thirty days.

I think it might include all of it.

It might be from beginning to end there is a legislative requirement.

What is that requirement?

MS HICKEY:

Sixty days.

MR. LANE:

Sixty days.

So,

basically, what has currently been happening and is happening is that we are

nowhere within that legislative requirement, right?

MS HICKEY:

The Review Division was legislated in 1994 with that particular provision

well, through some modification.

MR. LANE:

Yes.

MS HICKEY:

We have never met that sixty

days. We may have made it in 0.1

per cent of cases over the years.

Because of the upfront period of time, we have so little control over it,

individuals are not even ready to go sometimes in sixty days.

MR. LANE:

Obviously, we would require

either a legislative change so that we are operating within our own laws, our

own rules

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

or if not, then there is a

resource issue. Instead of five

Commissioners, we need ten Commissioners, in theory; or instead of one more full

time, we need two more or three more if we are going to meet the legislative

requirement, which currently we are not.

Is that correct?

MS HICKEY:

Right.

I understand the Statutory Review Committee actually looked at that issue

and I believe they have made some recommendations around that.

So that is something that is currently under review, but it is something

that we are very much aware of.

That is why we have put the effort in at the end of the process to try and get

the cases finalized after they are heard.

MR. LANE:

Statutory Review ?

MS HICKEY:

Committee.

MR. LANE:

That would be contained in

that report?

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

The legislation that we have

not seen yet, right.

MS HICKEY:

The Statutory Review Report

that

MR. LANE:

On workers' compensation.

MS HICKEY:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

The

report was tabled no, it has not.

The statutory review that was done, just for clarity and for the record I

suppose, that was completed about a year ago.

MS HICKEY:

Over a year ago.

MR. LANE:

Then it went out to some

stakeholders looking for feedback on the recommendations and then it went back

to the government. It has been in

their possession now for how long?

MS HICKEY:

I understand government is

currently in the process of reviewing those recommendations and feedback.

MR. LANE:

It has been in their

possession for how long?

MS HICKEY:

I cannot speak to that.

Minister Collins may speak to that.

MR. S. COLLINS:

It has been there a number

of months. I can get you the exact

time.

MR. LANE:

Are you able to provide us

here with some insight as to when we can expect to see legislation to deal with

these recommendations and these issues?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Yes.

I have spoken about that before in Question Period with regard to the

action plan that is being put together now.

I would suspect, I cannot give you a definitive timeline, but I would

expect very soon.

MR. LANE:

Can we expect some

legislation this fall?

MR. S. COLLINS:

I do not determine when

legislation goes on the books.

Again, I suspect that review of the action plan will be finalized very soon.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

The

other issue I wanted to raise or question is the workers' comp review division,

as we have indicated, is 100 per cent employer funded.

The rationale for having it as part of Estimates, given that it is not

publicly funded what is the rationale of having it here as part of our

Estimates given the fact that it is not publicly funded?

MS HICKEY:

I would just have to make a guess at that, to be honest with you, Mr. Lane.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Yes.

MS HICKEY:

Possibly because it is

administered through a government department and it does form part of Service

NL's overall responsibility in terms of if we go through Mr. Curtis' group for

all our accounts payable, payroll, and all other funds are administered through

Service NL, recovered back by Service NL from the WHSCC, but that is a good

question because we have asked that several times.

MR. LANE:

I asked that question for a

reason, to lead into another question, quite frankly.

I am trying to understand.

The

Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Division not the Review Division but

workers' comp itself for the last two years it was part of these Estimates,

this year it is not here. I am

wondering, given the fact that the Review Division is 100 per cent I was

thinking perhaps the reason why workers' comp would have been removed from this

whole process was, well, it is not public money.

It is employer money and so on, but so is the Review Division.

I am trying to understand who decided and why we decided that workers'

comp itself, given the fact that we still have that regulatory responsibility

whether we actually fund it or not we have that regulatory responsibility.

Like

George had some questions about Occupational Health and Safety.

Well that is directly, as we know, under Service NL, the inspection side;

but, it is not just the inspection side.

It is the awareness side. It

is the training side that kind of touches on what George said about changing the

culture and so on. That all falls

under the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Commission, yet we have no

ability, George here or I, to ask questions about what initiatives are being

taken to protect workers in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Because when we get to Service NL we are going to be told, well, the OHS

Division is responsible for enforcement.

We are not responsible for awareness and we are not responsible for

training.

cannot ask them; we cannot ask you because this is about the Review Division.

So when do we have an opportunity to ask questions and find out what is

going on in terms of awareness, training, education, and changing culture in our

workplace to protect our people when they go on the job, because we do not have

any ability now to do it? I am

wondering why it is not here. I do

not know if anybody can answer that question; maybe the minister.

MR. S. COLLINS:

I will not often say this to

you, but it is a good question.

I will

try to get an answer for that. As

you can appreciate, I cannot really tell you why part of it is here and why it

is not. I understood that last year

it was not part of Estimates.

MR. LANE:

It was.

MR. S. COLLINS:

It way, okay.

MR. LANE:

The last two years it was.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Okay.

All right, I can certainly find out for you, definitely.

It is a

good question, one I do not have an answer for.

OFFICIAL: I do

not think it was last year.

MR. S. COLLINS:

The Review Division was part

of last year, but I do not think the Commission as a whole was part of it.

OFFICIAL:

Just the review last year.

MR. S. COLLINS:

I could be corrected on

that.

MR. LANE:

Maybe it was the two years

before that. Maybe it was

2013-2014.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Okay.

CHAIR:

I chaired it last year and I

do not think

MR. LANE:

I thought I asked questions

about workers' comp last year, though.

CHAIR:

You may have, but it was not

there.

MS HICKEY:

Sometimes, Mr. Lane, Ms Galway will attend with some of us or some of the other

Occupational Health and Safety maybe.

Perhaps that might have been your opportunity to have asked some

questions at that time. I do not

recall that they were there last year.

I was here last year. I do

not recall that they were there last year.

MR. LANE:

Perhaps it was the two years prior to that.

We went back and it was definitely there for a couple of years.

I thought it was there last year, but whether it was there last year or

not the point is still the same.

Even though it may be employer funded, government still has responsibility for

safety in our workplaces from a regulatory point of view and so on.

We can deal with the enforcement side under Service NL, but we have no

ability to deal with or ask questions or raise any concerns about the awareness,

the training or anything else, because now it is here under workers' comp and

outside of any public scrutiny whatsoever.

If you could find out, Minister, why it is not there, I

would appreciate that. Because you

are responsible for that division, correct?

MR. S. COLLINS:

Yes. I would not say it is not open

to public scrutiny as it stands now, but of course it does not fall within the

Estimates purview. I will find out

for you, definitely. Like I said,

it is a good question. One I cannot

answer right now but I will get you an answer.

MR. LANE: Okay.

I think that concludes my questions on this particular

piece.

CHAIR: Thank

you, Paul.

MR. LANE: Thank

you for answering the questions to the best of your ability, I appreciate it.

CHAIR: I will

call for the subheads for workers' compensation review.

CLERK: Subhead

5.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead

5.1.01.

On motion, subhead 5.1.01 carried.

CHAIR: Shall

the total carry?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Yes.

On motion, Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Review

Division, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I

report the Estimates of the compensation review carried without amendment?

AN HON. MEMBER:

Carried.

CHAIR: Okay.

Thank you.

On motion, Estimates of the Workplace Health, Safety and

Compensation Review Division carried without amendment.

CHAIR: Thank

you, Minister.

MR. S. COLLINS:

Thank you.

MS HICKEY:

Thank you.

CHAIR: We will

just continue on now with Service NL.

We will take a couple of minutes to get them to change.

We will take five minutes.

Recess

CHAIR:

Okay, we are ready to go

again, I would imagine. Now we are

going to do the Estimates for Service NL and we will ask the minister to

introduce his staff or they can introduce themselves.

If you need a couple of minutes for introduction, it is fine.

What we will do is we will give each one ten minutes for questions and

rotate back and forth.

Before

I do, I will ask for a subhead.

CLERK:

Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR:

Subhead 1.1.01 to

CLERK:

Are we going to call them all?

CHAIR:

No, we are going to go to

2.1.04.

CLERK:

Oh, I see.

Subhead

2.1.04.

CHAIR:

Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.04 is

what we will start with.

Minister, when someone is responding, they can probably identify themselves,

please.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, will do.

I will have my staff introduce themselves, I guess, first, Mr. Chair.

course, I am Dan Crummell the minister, and we will continue on down the line.

MR. PUDDESTER:

Leigh Puddester, the Deputy Minister for Service NL.

MR. CURTIS:

Ken Curtis, the Departmental Controller.

MS DUNPHY:

Kim Dunphy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Occupational Health and Safety.

MR. MCCARTHY:

Julian McCarthy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Consumer and Commercial Affairs.

MS KELLAND:

Donna Kelland, Assistant Deputy Minister, Government Services Branch.

MS HYNES:

Anita Hynes, Executive Assistant to the minister.

MR. CARD:

Jason Card, Director of Communications.

CHAIR:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

We are good to go?

CHAIR:

You are good to go.

MR. CRUMMELL:

I just want to welcome

everybody here this morning and certainly take the opportunity to thank the

members opposite and the research staff for doing the bit work in getting ready

for today's session.

Just a

little bit of background: Service NL delivers a number of services to the public

in the areas of public health and safety, environmental protection, occupational

health and safety, consumer protection, and provision and preservation of

documents related to vital statistics.

addition, through the Office of the Queen's Printer, the department provides

printing, micrographic, and digital documentation services for the provincial

government, and printed materials to the general public.

Service NL consolidates, where possible, the licensing, inspection, and

regulatory functions within government with the aim of providing a single window

point of access to the public for those services.

The authority to carry out the department's mandate is derived from over

180 statutes and regulations as well as standards and codes of practice.

Again,

in order to make the most of the time we have here this morning, I will turn the

proceedings over to the Opposition and you can ask your questions.

CHAIR:

Okay, Paul, what we have

done is call for subheads 1.1.01 to 2.1.04 first.

So we will start with you, when you are ready.

MR. LANE:

Okay, I am ready.

I do

not have a big, huge amount here and I am not going to be nitpicking over small

amounts, but some of the more significant variances, I guess.

First

of all, under 1.1.01, Salaries, we had budgeted $252,500 last year, spent

$244,900, which is reasonable. We

are down to $198,000, so that is about $57,000.

It looks like maybe we have lost a position somewhere.

Is that correct?

MR. CRUMMELL:

No, that would not be

correct. The decrease of $54,500

was that the minister's salary is no longer budgeted in Service NL.

My salary is captured in Environment and Conservation.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Under

Purchased Services, last year had budgeted $18,800, doing the same again this

year, but last year only spent $1,600.

There is a variance there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That is a good question as

well, and that is an obvious one, but the decrease of $17,200 is mainly due to

compliance with the discretionary spending freeze that we put in place last

year. In the Minister's Office,

Purchased Services can vary annually depending on a number of factors and

ongoing initiatives. Last year was

less than anticipated, so it is a combination of two things.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Mr.

Minister, if we engaged in discretionary spending last year, which is good,

given our financial situation, we are in the financial situation or maybe even a

little worse this year, so why are we budgeting the same amount?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Any time that you budget a

line item, you look at historical spends in the past.

So the historical spends in the past have been around that amount.

I would anticipate us to be as frugal as possible.

If you look at any of my spending in my past, I have been very efficient

and effective, and my staff have as well in terms of managing our budgets in a

proper manner.

I would

be hopeful that we would keep that spend under that $18,800 for this year coming

up; but, again, based on historical spending, we thought it was necessary to

leave that number like it is.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Under

1.2.01, Executive Support, in Salaries last year we budgeted $1.4 million, spent

$1.6 million, and now this year we are at $1.5 million.

There is not a huge amount, I suppose, but there is a variance here.

Just an explanation on that one.

MR. CRUMMELL:

We spent more money last

year than we anticipated, and that was mainly due to retirement paid to the

former deputy minister, the retirement benefits.

That gentleman was working with the government for over thirty years and

received benefits based on his years of employment.

The following year, that $151,000 increase versus 2014-2015 is basically

the 3 per cent increase to all salaries.

MR. LANE:

Okay, it makes sense.

Perfect, thank you.

Moving

down to Transportation and Communications, $66,300 was budgeted last year and

this year, but last year we only spent a little less than half of that.

OFFICIAL:

Forty-eight per cent.

MR. LANE:

Forty-eight per cent my

colleague is telling me.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, absolutely.

It was definitely substantially lower than it was anticipated.

Transportation and Communications varies year to year based on new and ongoing

initiatives. Obviously, we had a

spending freeze. I was in the

office for a good bit of last year as well.

So we did our due diligence in making sure that we were taking care of

the people's money.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

I guess

it is the same with the next one, the $31,100 under Supplies.

It was budgeted last year and again this year but only spent $5,000.

That was a substantial savings last year, but we are budgeting the

$31,000. Is that just being frugal

with the dollars?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Absolutely, it is that.

It was just lower than anticipated to begin with, and then when we got

into the spending freeze we adhered to it very strictly.

MR. LANE:

Okay, but we are still going

to budget the same amount this year even though

MR. CRUMMELL:

We are, and again based on

historical spending.

MR. LANE:

So does that mean the freeze

is off or ?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We have a budget for this

year, obviously, that we have in front of the House to approve.

It is based that we would spend that amount of money based on historical

spends and what we are tasked to do and our mandates given to us by the Premier.

right now we have been budgeted this amount of money.

We intend to spend that money, but we will be very frugal.

If we can come in under budget, we will endeavour to do so to protect the

people's money.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Minister.

I am

not questioning your ability to be frugal or anything like that.

I guess my only point was that you made the point to say last year there

was this concerted effort, there was this freeze on discretionary spending,

which is a good thing given the financial situation, but we are budgeting the

same again this year. So I am just

wondering, beyond your personal mantra of spending money wisely, which is a good

thing, is there an official freeze on discretionary spending?

Is that maintained this year?

Obviously, it is not per se.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Obviously, supplies are

needed and are necessary to the orderly running of the executive component of

our department. I would anticipate

we are going to spend more than $5,000 this year.

Obviously, we played tight halfway through the year, and I anticipate we

are probably going to be spending a good majority of that money based on the

fact that we are going to need more supplies to do our business.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Fair enough. Thank you.

Moving

on to 1.2.02, Administrative Support, Property, Furnishings and Equipment; last

year we budgeted $300,000 but spent $355,000, but this year we are budgeting

only $130,000. That is a

significant drop. So if you can

just provide me with some information on that.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Sure.

The increase of $55,000 last year relates to the purchase of a cutter

that was used in our Queen's Printer.

It is a piece of machinery we did not anticipate that we had to purchase,

and we had to purchase that.

Also,

we did purchase a new vehicle, which required additional funds.

We did transfer other funds, actually, from some dropped balances that we

did not use over to this line budget item.

MR. LANE:

Why $130,000 this year?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Well, again, we were tasked

this year to find some savings. We

purchased, actually, thirteen vehicles last year.

We anticipated that we would have had to purchase some vehicles this

year, but we managed to purchase them last year and get them into last year's

budget. So this year our

requirement for new vehicles is not as high as we would have anticipated.

We did purchase thirteen new vehicles under last year's budget, and we

managed to get it in under last year's budget.

So we do not need to purchase those vehicles this year.

MR. LANE:

This year you are not going

to have to purchase as many.

CHAIR:

Excuse me, Paul.

MR. LANE:

Do you want to move on and

give George an opportunity?

CHAIR:

Yes, please.

MR. LANE:

Sure, go ahead.

CHAIR:

George.

MR. MURPHY:

(Inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

So, you are looking at

2.1.01, 02 Revenue Provincial?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That revenue for that

provincial revenue that is an increase of $3,400.

That was due to higher than anticipated revenue generally related to

application fees paid by applicants seeking to have complaints adjudicated.

That is residential tenancy hearings, is where that revenue would come

from.

MR. MURPHY:

(Inaudible) the review, when

it is going to be released?

MR. CRUMMELL:

What I can tell you is this,

what I have said in the House, in that we are doing the due diligence on that,

making sure that legislation is as tight as possible.

Again, George, that probably would be a better question in the House of

Assembly than in Estimates.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Coming

down to 2.1.02, Financial Services Regulation; under 01 Salaries, it was

$926,000 budgeted for this year I am sorry, $1,094,000 is budgeted for this

year against $926,000 that was in actual spent on salaries.

I wonder if we can get a breakdown on this line.

MR. CRUMMELL:

I am in Environment and Conservation as well, of course the Minister

Responsible, and usually when you see line items like that it is usually due to

vacancies and delays in recruitment.

We do have a couple of positions there vacant that we are still

recruiting for. That is timing as

much as anything, George, in terms of positions being vacant before we do the

hiring.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Are they going to be contractual hiring or full-time hiring of new staff

and that sort of thing?

MR. CRUMMELL:

My understanding is these

two positions that we are referring to here are full-time positions.

MR. MURPHY:

What would those two

positions be?

MR. CRUMMELL:

One is a Director of

Financial Services and the other is an investigator.

MR. MURPHY:

What would they be

investigating? Can you give us an

idea?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Again, providing oversight

in that division. So you are

talking about a wide range of consumer affairs activities with different

companies, organizations, and that type of thing.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Coming

down to the Transportation and Communications line here as well, in the same

section 2.1.02, $41,400 was last year against $25,400, and an anticipated

$35,000 this year. I wonder if I

can get a breakdown here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

Again, that would be compliance with the discretionary spending freeze,

as much as anything. The lower

amount of $35,000, we had to look to line items to find savings this year to

keep costs down. Obviously, we

experienced a 3 per cent salary increase this year.

If you

look at the overall budget, we are pretty well level for the previous year.

So we had to find savings in other areas.

This is one of the areas we thought we could, based on historic spending,

that we could probably save a few dollars.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

I guess

I cannot ask you any questions around the Financial Services Regulation end of

things. I would like to, but I will

carry on to 2.1.03, under the Salaries line.

Your Salaries line is up for this year in line 01.

I was wondering if I could just get a breakdown of what is happening

here. It looks like probably just

the 3 per cent.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

If you did the math, I think 3 per cent of $210,000 is about $12,700.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

Okay.

2.1.04, in Commercial Registrations, your Salaries line is well up this year to

$1.37 million from $1.194 million.

I wonder if I can get a breakdown of what is happening there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

The reason we did not spend

as much money last year as we budgeted was due to vacant positions that were

offset by some retirement costs.

The vacancies are planned to be filled as soon as possible.

We are

talking five Data Entry Operators, four Clerk Typist IIIs, one Clerk II, and one

Clerk IV. We get a fair bit of

turnover within the Clerk levels and the Data Entry Operator levels.

They are lower entry-level positions within government.

There are people always looking to apply for jobs at a higher level, so

there is a fair bit of turnover in these positions in government.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, so you will be looking

at more hirings that are going to be happening here again, Mr. Minister.

Are these going to be contractual hirings or will they be full time in

the system?

MR. CRUMMELL:

There are full-time

positions.

MR. MURPHY:

These will be full-time

positions.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

These are being actively recruited now as we speak.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, so new hirings there

for people.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. MURPHY:

The government is hiring,

people.

MR. CRUMMELL:

There is always going to be

turnover, as we well know. We have

an aging demographic.

MR. MURPHY:

I could use a turnover

myself.

Under

Purchased Services, Minister, 2.1.04, $726,000 was the actual for this year

against $790,000 that was budgeted.

You are anticipating Purchased Services of $833,600 this year.

I wonder if I can get a breakdown of what is happening here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Sure.

The

difference between the budget line item and the revised number; basically

$64,500 is the difference. That was

due to lower than anticipated transactions which lowered Moneris fees.

You are familiar with Moneris fees.

That is your Interac fees that would be used and your credit card fees.

Also,

some purchases were deferred for the first half of 2015-2016, again due to the

discretionary spending freeze. We

did hold back a little bit there.

For next year, the increase of $43,100 is mainly due to the increase in

requirement for the personal property registration system.

We have a new system that is going in place and there are increased costs

for that.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

That is

all I have in questions as regards to the line items up to this point.

CHAIR:

That is it under that one?

Okay George.

Paul,

do you have anything left under that subhead?

MR. LANE:

Yes.

CHAIR:

Okay, Sir.

MR. LANE:

Okay, so just a couple of

general questions. First of all,

Minister, without going through every line here and George covered a couple.

There

is a lot there that I am not going to get into, other than to say that if you

look at pretty much every line in all the various divisions there when it comes

to transportation, supplies, purchased services, furniture and so on if you

look at all of them you tend to see a trend there where there was a budgeted

amount last year, you went well below it, and then we budget it back to where we

were. That is a common theme I

think it is fair to say, with pretty much all of them.

You

talked about the discretionary spending freeze accounted for, I guess, all or

most of this. It would seem that

the freeze looking at it you would say the freeze is off.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

You know, maybe that is just

a comment more than anything. If

you want to respond you can.

MR. CRUMMELL:

There is no freeze right now

in terms of hiring and in terms of purchasing.

We all have our budgets. It

is still in the first quarter of the first year, or this year, in this fiscal

year. We look at our historical

spends.

In some

of the historical spends some line items are actually down for various reasons.

We cannot whitewash it with all the same brush, but, yes, I mean you are

trying to make the argument, perhaps, that maybe we do not need all that money.

We could have been had the line items that had changed, then, to the

lower numbers. We look at past

history and we know that we had a freeze on discretionary spend the last half of

last year, so we know that we are going to have to spend extra money this year

to make up for that spending freeze.

MR. LANE:

Yes, okay.

Thank you, that is fine

Okay,

so I just have a couple of other questions.

You are probably going to say they are policy, but they do relate to the

I am going to try to relate them to the budget, okay?

When I

look at 2.1.01, which is under Consumer Affairs, what it says here,

Appropriations provide for the mediation of consumer complaints, the mediation

of residential landlord/tenant complaints the Lotteries Licensing Program and

so on. Forgive me on that one, I

was going to ask about the landlord tenants' act, but I think George asked about

that. Basically you said it is a

question to ask before the House, correct?

I will

just say for the record, though, that this has been the landlord tenants' act

has been ongoing for quite some time.

I think two or three years, if I am not mistaken.

There were consultations done.

Why we need to continue to consult I do not know who we are consulting

for three or four years. Can you at

least answer do you anticipate bringing some legislation to the House this fall?

MR. CRUMMELL:

There is a lot of work that

has gone into new legislation, a considerable amount of work that is moving

forward. We are not going to be

bringing this before the House until we are satisfied that we have done

everything we can in making sure that we have the best legislation possible.

I cannot make a commitment here that we will have that in front of the

House in this session, but we are working towards getting this to the House as

soon as possible.

MR. LANE:

Okay, 2.1.02, Financial

Services Regulation, that is the one, really, I wanted to ask about.

Under that heading it talks about, Appropriations provide for the

regulation and supervision of the insurance, securities, real estate, mortgage

broker and prepaid funeral industries.

That is where I just had a couple of questions.

When we

look at the staffing, the Salaries; it seems to be on par with last year with

the 3 per cent increase, as just the little adjustment I would assume.

That tells me the staffing is pretty much status quo.

I am wondering if you can give me a breakdown.

When it comes to things like, for example, prepaid funeral audits, it

certainly was my understanding, based on the legislation that was put in place

and we know why the prepaid funeral audits were put in place.

We had

a situation a number of years back where consumers were basically left holding

the bag when a company folded with their money that they had paid for prepaid

funerals. As a result, there was a

fund set up and government are supposed to be auditing funeral homes in terms of

prepaid funerals. Last year we know

that only about half of those were actually submitted and audited.

I think

I heard you or somebody say that this year, or last years' experience has

changed, and if that has happened that is a good thing.

In terms of the staff assigned, is there a dedicated person responsible

for prepaid funeral audits so we can ensure that every single audit that is

supposed to be done and submitted is submitted, followed up on and the audits

are done, because it did not happen last year when we looked.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Our financial services

regulatory division is a small shop.

As you can see, the salaries are around a million dollars in salaries.

We did have two vacancies last year in our financial securities, the

director and an investigator. So,

with the staff we have there, they wear many different hats.

They do different activities.

Just like we are a small Province, a small government, sometimes people

in these departments wear a couple of different hats, three or four different

hats, and have oversight in different areas, especially when it comes to

financial services.

Do I

have a dedicated staff here? My

understanding is we have people who do take on responsibilities in different

ways. Is that correct?

MR. PUDDESTER:

That is correct. We have multiple

people who would service all of (inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

We have multiple people who

would service in all of these different areas and have some responsibilities in

these different areas.

We are

at a very good level in terms of compliance when it comes to prepaid funerals.

There is not a huge issue out there with regard to that.

It is absolutely not a huge issue at all.

It is very minor. Anybody

who is not in compliance is dealt with quickly and communicated with.

There

are only so many people in this Province and only so many funeral homes.

We know who the players are.

If we see an issue we identify it.

We know these people by name. We

know who to talk to. So we are on

top of this. There are no issues

around this whatsoever, and if there is an issue we jump on it ASAP.

MR. LANE:

Minister, when we did the

access to information last year, we discovered that only 50 per cent of the

audits that were supposed to have been submitted that year were submitted.

That is 50 per cent. That is

not in compliance with the regulations, which is legislation.

It is a requirement of the government to make sure it is done.

I am puzzled as to how 50 per cent would be an acceptable number.

It is supposed to be 100 per cent.

So this

year, because I have not done an access to information to see if it is improved

now if you can give me the answer I will not have to do it.

Can you comment on this year, if we are up to 100 per cent where we are

supposed to be? Do you know?

MR. CRUMMELL:

It is a good question for

the House, but I will just briefly answer this.

We are

at a much higher level of compliance right now.

We want to be at 100 per cent compliance, and these companies need to be

at 100 per cent compliance as well.

The legislation is there for a reason.

We provide oversight. If

somebody does not submit the proper information, we contact them and let them

know that you need to get your audits in ASAP.

So we work with these companies to make sure they get them in on a timely

basis. This year we are at a very

much higher compliance rate.

Deputy

MR. PUDDESTER:

Yes, we are not at 100 per cent but we are quite (inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, we are not at 100 per

cent, and the few that are not in compliance we are working with to make sure

they get the paperwork done. It is

just like anything, you are never going to get 100 per cent compliance in

anything. That is why we have these

people doing the work, to make sure they are contacted and that they get the

proper paperwork done.

MR. LANE:

Mr. Minister, the funding

for this I do not know if you know or maybe your deputy might know.

The funding for prepaid funeral audits, this is paid for by the funeral

industry is my understanding. There

is a fund and they pay into this to ensure that this oversight is in place.

They want it by the way, because, obviously, like anything, if you have a

bad apple in the barrel then it paints everybody negatively, and nobody wants

that.

understanding is they are paying into a fund which is supposed to pay for this

audit. Was that ever supposed to be

a dedicated position to ensure that this was being done or ?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Some of what you are saying

is not correct. The way prepaid

funerals work is not like that at all.

Maybe I

will let Julian, or yourself.

MR. PUDDESTER:

Sure, I can start.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, I will let my deputy

speak to it first.

MR. LANE:

Sure.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Then the assistant deputy

minister will give you a little bit more on a factual basis.

We do not mind answering this question because it is good to make sure

you are clear on how on this goes.

MR. PUDDESTER:

There is an assurance fund that funeral companies selling prepaid funeral

contracts pay into a percentage based on the value of the contracts.

That money collected sits in a trust account.

That is there to protect against if there ever was a problem with one of

those companies going under or not honouring a prepaid funeral.

That money would be used to cover the cost of the funerals itself, that

the families would be looking to have covered.

They do

also pay a registration fee every year; but, Julian, I do not think that was

ever intended to be a dedicated position.

Is that correct?

MR. MCCARTHY:

I do not know the history, but since I have been there, and I think for the last

seven or eight years, the idea is that we have a number of programs and it would

be a lot more efficient if we had people with the expertise in these areas to

look after it. Sometimes it is not

enough to cover one area. It would

not be a full-time position, type of thing.

What we do, we will get the expertise in these areas.

So I

could not tell you, but we have a number of people who are involved in the

regulation of prepaid funerals. It

is not their only duties, but that is a priority and it is certainly handled.

MR. LANE:

I thank you for the explanation and Mr. Puddester as well.

That

was the way I understood it, that there was a fund.

I could not remember the name of it, the assurance fund.

That is basically the insurance policy.

If someone goes under there is a pool of money so that people are not

left holding the bag.

Also,

the registration fee, or whatever you call it, my understanding in talking to

people in the industry was that fee was supposed to ensure that there was

someone within Service NL who would do the audits to make sure that we never had

to use the fund, because it was being audited and we knew that companies were

doing what they were supposed to be doing.

understand you said that we have several people who are involved.

I can understand that if there are only so many companies in Newfoundland

that operate funeral homes and so on, that if there is only enough work there

for a half-time position or less, it would make sense that you would have them

do okay, you are responsible for this, now you are also going to take on this

and this.

It is

not one individual who looks after all of this.

I would have thought you would have had one individual who looks after

prepaid funerals, plus then they do this and this.

As opposed to ten people, you can do two companies.

You can do some assurance.

You can do a bit of everything. It

is like if everybody is responsible, nobody is responsible.

I am

just wondering what set up you would have there to ensure there is one person

who has that oversight to say: yes, I need to make sure that every company is

checked off on this list. As

opposed to: I am doing two, you are doing two, someone else is doing two, and

nobody really knows what is done.

MR. MCCARTHY:

No, that is not exactly the way it works.

I mean we have a number of individuals no.

So there is a person who is responsible with regard to the audited

financial statements and the annual reporting.

There is a specific person who is tasked with that duty to ensure that

they are submitted, and if they are not submitted, to follow up.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MR. MCCARTHY:

With regard to if someone is

not doing it, or if we decide to do an on-site audit, or if we want further

information, there is more than one person who has the authority to carry out

that task.

MR. LANE:

Yes.

MR. MCCARTHY:

So that is the way it works. Then

we have a manager who is responsible for the assurance fund also.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

So there is one individual responsible to make sure these are all checked

off and done?

MR. MCCARTHY:

Correct, yes, so with regard to the report that should be followed.

MR. LANE:

So obviously there was an

issue with that individual not making sure last year, when only half of them

were done. If there was one person

responsible, and only 50 per cent were done, then obviously it must have been an

issue.

MR. CRUMMELL:

In that moment in time and

when that audit was done, if there was 50 per cent non-compliant, you can pretty

well rest assured that our people in our department were contacting the ones who

were not in compliance. So, at any

moment in time you could have that number there.

Obviously, that number is not a good number.

It is much higher today.

This year has gone much more smoothly.

So, again, the onus has to be on industry and companies to be in

compliance. We provide the

oversight. Where they are not in

compliance, we let them know. That

is where we are on that.

MR. LANE:

Okay, we will move on.

Thank you.

The

other question I have then, I guess falls under that category.

It talks about how these staff are responsible it says here for

insurance, supervision of insurance.

So, we had an issue there. I

have spoken to the insurance association, the Insurance Brokers Association of

Newfoundland about this. They were

concerned by the fact that like the funeral homes, they want to ensure that

everybody who is representing their industry are doing everything properly above

board, so that you do not have a situation where somebody is not doing something

that they should be doing, and then they all get a black eye for it.

They want regulation.

They

indicated to me that there was a decision made all of a sudden to stop

collecting their audits, requiring their audits.

I am wondering why we are not requiring annual audits from the insurance

companies here in Newfoundland, why that would be?

Is that a staffing issue? Is

the reason why that is not being done to free up time, or we do not have enough

staff to do it? What is the

rationale?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I will give you a short

answer on that one and then that will be it on this question.

That is a question for the House of Assembly.

The

short answer is this: There is no other jurisdiction in Canada that requires

that kind of reporting. The

reporting that is required here the reason we changed it is to be consistent

with other jurisdictions. We have

Mainland companies that operate a certain way that do business here; they are

not required to do it elsewhere.

There is no other jurisdiction in Canada that requires that kind of reporting.

There

is other reporting that is required in this Province that these companies need

to provide to us on a regular basis.

We can provide the oversight that is needed.

We do not think that type of auditing is necessary, just like it is not

necessary in any other jurisdiction.

Really

it is a question for the House of Assembly and I will leave it at that.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

I will make sure I ask the question in the House of Assembly.

Okay, I

am finished with that section.

Thank you, Minister.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Thank you, Paul.

there are no more questions on that particular subhead we will call for the

vote, so call for the subhead.

CLERK:

Subheads 1.1.01 to 2.1.04

inclusive.

CHAIR:

Subheads 1.1.01 to 2.1.04.

Shall

the total carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

Okay,

thank you.

motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 2.1.04 carried.

CHAIR:

Now we will carry on with

the next subhead which is

CLERK:

Subheads 3.1.01 to 3.3.03.

CHAIR:

Subheads 3.1.01 to 3.3.03.

George,

I almost forgot your name that time.

It was so long since I got back to you.

MR. MURPHY:

That is okay, Mr. Chair.

I forget my name all the time.

CHAIR:

Paul apologizes for that.

MR. MURPHY:

I have been trying to forget

myself all week. I actually

succeeded on the weekend. I woke up

and did not know who I was.

We are

going to be doing as far as what was the other section?

CHAIR:

Subheads 3.1.01 to 3.3.03.

MR. MURPHY:

Subhead 3.3.03, very good.

I am just making a personal note here.

Okay, I

will start off with a couple of questions around 3.1.01.

Under the Salaries line, I guess I will start there, under 3.1.01,

Administration and Motor Vehicle Registration.

The Salaries line actually takes a dip for this year.

I am just wondering if you can give me a breakdown of what is happening

here in the Salaries line.

MR. CRUMMELL:

You are talking about the

budget and the actuals for 2014-2015.

The actuals for 2014-2015 actually goes up.

Is this your question?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

It went up versus the budget

and it had to do with severance costs.

We had a number of retirements, so there was an increase in severance

costs. You are talking $43,000,

$44,000. With regard to the changes

from 2014-2015, you are talking a 3 per cent government-wide increase.

There are also some attrition savings as well in that department.

The net is about $9,000 more than the previous year.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Down on the Supplies line it is $248,600 that was in the budget, the

revised figure is $185,000, and the estimates for this year are coming in at

$215,000. If we can break down here

of what is happening.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, the $63,000 in the

difference between budgeted and spent last year was to reflect the discretionary

spending freeze. The line item

number for the $215,000 versus the $248,000; the decreases reflect anticipated

requirements based on recent expenditure levels, so our understanding of what we

have been spending in the last little while.

We thought we could cut a few dollars there and get down to where our

actuals should be on that line item.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

Property, Furnishings and Equipment the revised figure for this year showed a

$41,100 load of purchases, I guess in this case, compared to $11,700 that was

budgeted. What was bought here, Mr.

Minister?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We actually moved the

medical records sections over to the MRD building in Mount Pearl.

Is that correct?

OFFICIAL:

Combined (inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

Combined, yes.

So we had to do some renovations.

By combining those services over at MRD, the increase of about $30,000

was due to that.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

That was

MR. CRUMMELL:

Office furniture and things

like that, George.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, the move from Mews

Place into Mount Pearl, basically.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, that is fine.

Under

3.1.02, Driver Examinations and Weigh Scale Operations, I noticed that there was

a good drop down in Salaries this year of about $420,000.

I wonder if I can get a breakdown of what is happening in this line,

because of course the number pops up again a little bit to about $2.2 million.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, and it is pretty

straightforward there. Again,

vacancies that were not filled at different times during the year that are now

all filled, by the way. So there

are savings that were incurred there.

Good to note, though, looking at stats, we have actually increased

inspections versus previous years.

We actually did a lot of work last year, despite having a few vacancies there.

Also,

when you look at the estimates for this year, the decrease between the budget

for last year and the budget for this year is about $276,000.

That is due to a number of changes, including savings due to removal of

funding for market adjustments.

There is a temporary vacancy that was maintained for one year to fund a service

delivery improvement so that is in there as well and there are other planned

savings as well for 2015-2016 of about $88,000.

The decreases that we have incurred are offset by the 3 per cent salary

increase of $71,800. So, there is a

bit of a mix there in terms of extra costs and a decrease in costs, and the net

is some savings overall.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, so you mentioned that

there were new employees hired here too at the same time.

I guess it will be reflected in this year's budget, certainly in those

numbers. Could you tell me what

those jobs are, those positions that were filled?

Are they people working, for example, the National Safety Code highway

inspectors, or what would they be?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Weigh scale operators,

mostly, is where that was, George, where we had some vacancies that we filled.

Again, we are doing a little reorg there right now as we speak that will

realize some savings, but we anticipate to have the same level of service that

we have had in the past.

MR. MURPHY:

When it comes to weigh scale

operations, I will ask you about Pynn's Brook out there.

I know that is a pretty busy spot and a lot of the times some of the guys

and the girls were being dragged away, of course, to go on up the Northern

Peninsula and have a portable station set up.

So I am just asking if there was any staffing requirements that were

filled out there too at the same time?

Has that been filled out a little bit more out that way?

MS KELLAND:

We have six positions at the Pynn's Brook station

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MS KELLAND:

including two portable positions which do those runs up and down the

peninsula, down the West Coast, and onto the side roads or the non-TCH roads.

So those are included in that staff complement which runs the fixed

station as well as the portable unit that does that patrol stuff.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, so there were no more

staff that were hired out that way, Donna, do you know?

MS KELLAND:

We might have had a vacancy or two out there during the year.

Some of these folks are applying for other jobs, so they might be

promoted to highway enforcement and then we backfill as we need to.

MR. MURPHY:

All right.

So it is all good out there right now?

MS KELLAND:

As far as I know. We might have one

vacancy out there; I am not exactly sure.

Again, we have had some recent promotions, so it is a bit of a

MR. MURPHY:

That is a good thing.

Thanks for that.

Mr.

Minister, just further down to Property, Furnishings and Equipment, the budget

line item shows $45,200 was budgeted for.

We only spent $100 and this year they are looking at $30,000 in spending.

I wonder if we could get a breakdown on what is happening here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Obviously, we were trying to

save some money there last year in different buckets and different things that

we thought we could hold off in purchasing.

That reflects a little bit of that, but it also reflects savings that

were partially offset

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

Right, okay.

Actually, some of the savings we found here we transferred to other line items

for other equipment that we needed, renovations that were ongoing, and

furnishings in other branches of Service NL.

So we did transfer some funds.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

So you did not

MR. CRUMMELL:

If you look at

Administration, Motor Vehicle Registration, the above line item up there.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That extra $30,000 would

have come from this line item here because overall, at the end of the day, we

are under budget in our costs. So

we moved some money around there, George.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

3.1.03, if we could just get a quick breakdown on the Salaries line.

There is $138,400 difference, number one, if we can a breakdown of what

is happening there between this year and the actual.

This year's estimates show a little over $2.1 million budgeted.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Right.

The difference from budget to actual last year, that decrease was mainly

due to staff turnover. That was

partially offset by retirement-related costs as well, so we did save some money

last year from retirements and staff turnover.

That is, again, consistent in other line items that are similar to

Salaries.

When we

look at the increase, again we are going to fill those vacant positions, but we

also have that 3 per cent government-wide increase, which on a base of $2.1

million from the previous year is another $61,000 or I should say $48,000, I

believe.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

It is $61,000, sorry;

$62,000 would represent 3 per cent of that number.

MR. MURPHY:

If I can get a breakdown too

of the Employee Benefits line here: $55,300 against $9,000 that was anticipated.

MR. CRUMMELL:

From year to year, we will

see a difference in these types of line items when it comes Employee Benefits,

and it has mostly to do with workers' compensation payouts, which again, vary

from year to year. If you have one

employee who has a claim, or two employees who have claims that you did not have

the previous year, it could bounce that number fairly high.

Overall, when we look at the historical costs associated with that, usually we

are in that $9,000 range. Last year

was one of those unusual years where we did have some people who did file

workers' comp.

CHAIR:

Okay.

Thank you, George.

We have

to go back to Paul.

Paul.

MR. LANE:

We are going to 3.1.03,

right?

CHAIR:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Under

3.1.01, Purchased Services totalling $288,900, that has been pretty consistent,

it almost seems like a contract or something.

Is that for one specific contract?

Because it is not a round number, per se, and it is exactly the same each

year. It would almost seem like it

is one contract or something. Can

you tell me what is included in those Purchased Services, what it would be for?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Purchased Services would be

advertising contracts that we would have, vehicle maintenance, repairs, things

like that, office rentals in certain areas of the Province.

It is a line item that obviously we have been very good at identifying

exactly what we need to spend and how we spend it.

MR. LANE:

Mr. Minister, the point I am

trying to make maybe I was not clear, I will try again; $288,900 was budgeted

and according to the figure you actually spent $288,900.

There is not even a one-cent discrepancy there and now you are budgeting

$288,900.

Given

the fact that the projected and the actual for last year, and then the projected

for this year is the exact same figure, it would just appear that it was it

seems strange that you have a whole bunch of Purchased Services and items and

they just happen to all add up to the exact number, right to the cent, of what

you budgeted for. It just seemed a

little odd. I am just wondering

MR. CRUMMELL:

No, it is a good question.

Ken.

MR. CURTIS:

The biggest cost in that area is the office lease costs.

The office leases are obviously a fixed cost so it does not tend to vary

much from year to year. If you are

renting a space for a certain amount every year, it does not change much.

That is the biggest area which does not cause that to fluctuate.

MR. LANE:

Okay. So what we would be leasing

there? That is for the Motor

Registration Building, is it? What

are we leasing there?

MR. CURTIS:

No, the Motor Registration Building is a government building.

MR. LANE:

That is our building.

MR. CURTIS: Other

sites around the Island would be in some leased space I am not sure.

MR. LANE: Like

the Harbour Grace Motor Registration, type of thing?

MR. CURTIS:

Yes.

MR. LANE: That

would be a leased building Marystown?

MR. CURTIS:

Yes, standalone offices where they are not part of a government building.

As I said, the MRD building in Mount Pearl, obviously, is a government

building. In other sites around the

Island they are not in government buildings, they are off in leased

accommodations, wherever they might be.

MR. LANE: Okay.

OFFICIAL:

Lewisporte, Springdale, and places like that.

MR. LANE: Okay.

Can we get a list of all these leased spaces?

I do not need it right now, but can you provide us with a list of the

breakdown?

MR. CRUMMELL: I

do not see any problem with that.

MR. LANE: Okay.

Thank you.

Transportation and Communications is over $900,000.

That is a fair bit of money.

Can you provide me with some insight as to what is included in that?

What

part is transportation and what

part is communications?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Ken or Leigh, can you give a little breakdown on that one?

OFFICIAL: Donna

will speak to that.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Donna.

MS KELLAND: The

bulk of that money is for postage.

We mail out vehicle and driver renewal notices.

We mail out stickers to people.

We ship plates and other inventory around the Province to different

offices. That is about $815,000 out

of that amount. There is some

travel in there as well, but most of that is for postage and freight.

MR. LANE:

Okay, thank you.

Still

under Motor Vehicle Registration, I do not see under any of these categories

anything here for employee training.

I guess that is done through human resources or something so it would

fall under their budget and not yours.

Is that the rationale?

MR. PUDDESTER:

A lot of the training that would take place for our employees is done internally

through the human resources area, as opposed to spending money with external

training companies.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

I am just wondering has there been any training done with anybody there

as it relates to because we had an incident with Motor Registration with

privacy breeches and so on. I am

just wondering has there been any staff training related to those types of

issues.

MR. CRUMMELL:

When it comes to privacy,

when it comes to our employees when anybody gets hired by the provincial

government there is training that occurs around protection of privacy and access

to information. That training is

done upfront when you are hired and you sign a confidentiality agreement.

Everybody does that in government.

Everybody here has done that. From

that, there are periodic times where there would be reminders and there would be

other training as well. It all

happens internally.

When

incidents do occur we immediately find out what happened, what caused that

incident, and try to talk to the employees and make sure they understand what

happened, how it happened, why it happened, and what we need to do to correct

further incidents of that nature whatever nature it happened to be at the time

from happening going forward. So

it is an ongoing exercise in terms of making sure people are as trained up as

best they possibly can be.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Thank you, Minister.

Still

under 3.1.01, Grants and Subsidies, the number is the same so there is no issue

there. I am wondering if you can

provide us again I do not need it at this moment, but if you could provide us

with a list of who is receiving these Grants and Subsidies and what they are

for.

MR. CRUMMELL:

No problem there again.

Yes, it is not a lot of money.

We can provide that for you, no problem at all.

MR. LANE:

Thank you.

Subhead

3.1.02, Driver Examinations and Weigh Scale Operations, the Employee Benefits

section; I am not sure if George asked about that or not.

If he did, I never caught it.

Four thousand dollars was budgeted last year and again this year, but the

actual last year was $15,700. Is

that somebody getting some retirement benefits or something?

Is that what that is?

MR. CRUMMELL:

No, actually that line item

there, the reason for the increase would be the same reason I gave earlier for

another line item that was higher than the previous budgeted year.

That was due to WHSCC costs which vary again from year to year.

You might have one employee who goes on compensation and there are some

costs associated in terms of employee benefits that we would incur.

It does happen on occasion.

It is unusual.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Thank you.

The

Transportation and Communications budget of $125,000; can you just give us some

insight as to what is included in that?

I am not questioning the variance; I am just wondering what is included

in there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

I think somebody would be

better to speak to that directly who is dealing with it on a day-to-day basis.

Donna.

MS KELLAND:

Most of that is for travel for our weigh scale patrols and our driver examiners.

We do itinerant service to a number of areas in the Province for driver

examinations. Those would be travel

costs that those folks would incur.

As well, our weigh scale people do things like escorts of heavy loads, large

loads. That would be their

expenditures for that.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Thank you.

Subhead

3.1.03, Licence and Registration Processing, under Transportation and

Communications last year we had budgeted $7,700 and only spent $700.

It is back up to $7,700.

Again, that was the temporary discretionary spending freeze, I am assuming, the

same as the others?

MR. CRUMMELL:

That would be correct.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Purchased Services was $1.8 million.

I am just wondering what types of things would be included in that?

What will we be purchasing for $1.8 million annually?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I think Donna could probably

speak to that in greater detail, but Moneris fees are really high.

That is the big part of that.

MR. LANE:

What fees?

I am sorry, Minister, I never heard you.

MR. CRUMMELL:

The Moneris fees, the use of

Interac; the company that delivers that service.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Actually, their costs went

up last year, I believe, significantly.

Donna, can you expound on that?

MS KELLAND:

This is the area where we do our over-the-counter processing and our

transactions for driver's licences and vehicle renewals.

So those Interac and credit card fees are a very high percentage of our

business, which is mostly what is driving that cost.

MR. LANE:

There is a cost to using it.

MS KELLAND:

Right.

It is a percentage fee.

MR. LANE:

Yes, I understand.

I have

a couple of quick questions on this

section that we are still on.

Unless George has something else under this

section because we are ending

CHAIR:

Just a couple of quick ones

and we will make it up with George; that is fine.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

The

first one, I am just wondering, in Marystown, this was an issue that was raised

I guess this would come under supplies, equipment, whatever, we can say.

There is an issue that was raised by some people in Marystown over the

fact that you can go to Motor Registration in Marystown and get your licence and

so on. I think they take your

picture and what have you, but then you have to wait two or three weeks to get

your actual card in the mail.

I am

told the reason is because there is no printer in Marystown to actually print

your card on the spot the same as anybody else would have, say, in the St.

John's area. I am not sure if the

other places are the same or not, but I am just wondering are there any thoughts

about correcting that situation. Is

there any money budgeted? I am just

wondering has anyone done a cost-benefit analysis in terms of what it is costing

us to go mailing licences out on the Burin Peninsula.

Would it not be cheaper to have a printer and do it there?

It is

pretty specific, I know, but I do not know if

MR. CRUMMELL:

That is fine.

That is a reasonable question.

We want to deliver the services to the people of the Province as

efficiently as possible and have as much services in different regions as we

possibly can. We know that is not

always possible. We know we live in

a Province where we are a lots of people spread out over God's creation.

It is

desirable to be exactly what you just said.

We are always looking at ways to improve service delivery.

In this specific instance, we are looking at that very closely as well.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

The

only other question I have I do not see it anywhere here, maybe it is later.

For Motor Registration, where is the revenue?

Because, obviously, there should be a revenue piece to all of this.

People are paying for their driver's licences and registrations and so

on.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Actually Service NL

generates about $130 million a year in general revenue.

So that goes into general revenue.

It is not captured here in our line items; it goes right into general

revenue.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

If you want to know that

amount, I am sure that would not be difficult to get at some point.

MR. LANE:

You are saying it is around

$130 million?

MR. CRUMMELL:

It is $130 million in all of

the fees and services that we provide as a cost to the people of the Province.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

In Service NL, we generate

about $130 million in revenue for the government in fees and expenses.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Can you

provide us if you do not have the number now as to what the revenue is at

Motor Registration?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We could probably give you a

quick (inaudible).

MS KELLAND:

I think it is around $70 million, give or take, annually for Motor Registration

that goes into the Consolidated Revenue Fund.

I could be wrong, on a marginal amount.

MR. LANE:

Okay, but that is a good

ballpark.

MS KELLAND:

Give or take, yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay, thank you.

That is

it, Mr. Chair, on that particular section.

CHAIR:

Okay, thanks, Paul.

George.

MR. MURPHY:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chair.

Heading

3.1.04, National Safety Code.

CHAIR:

We are going to 3.3.03 right

now, George.

MR. MURPHY:

Heading 3.3.03.

CHAIR:

Yes, 3.1.01 to 3.3.03.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That is where we are now.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, I was just looking to

see where my notes ended off here.

I was coming back to 3.1.04. I

wanted to get a breakdown of the Transportation and Communications line in

3.1.04. It shows $112,400 was

budgeted for, there was only $55,000 that was spent, and $75,000 is the budget

item this year. I wonder if I can

get a breakdown of what is happening there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Again, that has to do with

the freeze on spending and travel, so that is the savings that we realized under

that policy the second half of last year.

MR. MURPHY:

How about under Professional

Services, $40,000 was budgeted for, nothing spent, and $40,000 budgeted this

year.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That decrease is less than

anticipated, obviously we did not spend any.

Requirements vary from year to year and most years, we use up that

budget. When we went through the

line items we looked at that and we looked at historic spends, we made a case to

make sure that was included in this year's budget, based again on what we spent

in the past.

MR. MURPHY:

What was it in Professional

Services that you anticipated that you would have spent it on but did not, in

this particular case, and you are obviously anticipating to be spending about

$40,000 this time around?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I will turn that over to the

deputy minister.

MR. PUDDESTER:

Yes, the National Safety Code is a co-operative effort between all of the

provinces and the federal government.

So from time to time, there may be a joint research that is done or

studies conducted all around improving highway safety, particularly with respect

to the commercial trucking industry.

We may

also have requirements from time to time as we are inspecting commercial

trucking fleets to potentially bring in additional professional support for

that. That is the type of thing

that the budget is there to cover.

As the minister said last year, we did not have a need for those initiatives;

also, in the interest of the discretionary spending requirements, we made sure

to lower that, but we would anticipate it going back to more normal levels.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

the same heading, Purchased Services, it shows $9,400 was budgeted, there was

$50,000 spent in this particular case this year, and you are only anticipating

to be spending $9,400 again. What

was spent under this $50,000 amount?

MR. CRUMMELL:

The explanation for that,

George, that was provided because I certainly asked that same question; that

certainly jumps out is that we had higher than anticipated vehicle repairs and

maintenance that was required for our fleet.

We do have a number of vehicles certainly in our fleet.

MR. MURPHY:

That would be highway

inspection vehicles, that sort of thing?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Just maintenance and repairs

is what I am talking about here.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

What

were the issues around the repairs and the maintenance here because it seems

like it is an awful lot?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I do not have specifics, but

maybe Donna Kelland can provide some detail.

MS KELLAND:

The budget here is used for things like vehicle repairs and maintenance.

To be honest with you, when we looked at this, this probably should have

been an expenditure under MRD, Administration, 3.1.01.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MS KELLAND:

We did have a new manager there last year, and I think some of that should have

been grouped with that other expenditure grouping in the other subhead, but it

is a fairly large fleet. It is

things like highway, the trucks we would use for patrols and things like that.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Thanks, Donna.

Mr.

Minister, line 01, Revenue Federal, if we can get a breakdown on what is

happening here. Obviously it is a

federal contribution of some kind, $191,500 right across the board.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That there are audits we

would do on commercial fleets that would operate out of Newfoundland based in

Newfoundland that would operate in other jurisdictions around the country.

So the federal government would reimburse us for doing the inspections

and the audits as well.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Thanks for that.

Subhead

3.2.01, Support Services; there is a difference in Salaries here.

Obviously it was the first thing that jumped out at me.

It is a drop of $155,200. I

am just wondering if these vacant positions sill are vacant, or if there are new

hirings? In your Budget you are

also showing an increase in your Salaries line to $2.365 million.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Right, so the increase of

$16,800 is mainly due to the 3 per cent government-wide increase.

There is some attrition savings as well in there, but the bottom line,

the change, the $16,800 is due to the 3 per cent.

terms of the less expenditure last year versus Budget, it is again due to

vacancies in some hard-to-fill positions, and partially offset by some

retirements. We did have some

vacancies there and my understanding is that we are continuing to do, or going

through our hiring process, and we are going to fill those vacancies as soon as

possible.

MR. MURPHY:

How many vacancies are there

right now?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I believe there are a

couple. There are two positions.

MR. MURPHY:

What positions would they

be? Do you know, right offhand?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Boiler pressure inspectors.

MR. MURPHY:

Boil pressure inspectors.

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

It is a highly qualified

technical job that needs to be done with the requirements that are needed.

Sometimes it is difficult to fill those positions when employees retire

or move on to different occupations and workplaces.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

What

part of the Province, do you know?

MR. CRUMMELL:

I do not know.

Are they both based in here?

OFFICIAL: One

here (inaudible).

MR. CRUMMELL:

There is one here and one on the West Coast, George.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay. So you are obviously going to

be filling these positions.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Absolutely.

MR. MURPHY:

They will be full time, nothing contractual about them?

All right, I appreciate that.

Under Transportation and Communications, $260,000 was spent

against $405,800 that was budgeted for.

Can we get a breakdown on what is happening on this line?

This year you are also calling for $350,000 in spending.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, with regard to the actual spend versus the budget line item; the difference

is about $145,000, $146,000. That

is mainly due to vacant positions and also the discretionary spending freeze,

George. There is a combination of

factors there.

MR. MURPHY: All

right.

MR. CRUMMELL:

With regard to next year, that is to reflect anticipated requirements in that

area based on expenditure levels that we experienced in the past.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under Purchased Services, $820,000 was the revised figure

for this year against $869,300 budgeted, and $845,000 for this year.

MR. CRUMMELL:

You are in the taxi industry, or use to be, and I used to be as well.

You never know when something is going to go wrong.

MR. MURPHY: You

used to be in the back seat.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, that is right. That is mainly

less spent on vehicle repairs then we anticipated.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Carrying on to the provincial revenue line, I guess we can

get a breakdown on what is happening here, $1.297 million right across the board

here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

reviews, fire and safety plan reviews, registration and inspection of boiler and

pressure vessel systems, et cetera.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

So obviously that money does not go into general revenue, it is captured here.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes. All right, that is good.

Under 3.2.02, under Regional Services there is a

considerable increase, about $250,000, anyway, in the Salaries line between the

actual this year and what is budgeted for this year.

I wonder if we can get a breakdown on what is happening here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Sure. The increase from one year to

the next is the 3 per cent government-wide increases.

When you look at the difference between the spend from last year

and the it is vacancies,

recruitment delays, so issues related around that.

We did have some retirement-related costs that saved us money as well.

It is a typical mixed bag of tricks when it comes to the Salaries line

items.

MR. MURPHY:

Any new hirings that are

going to be happening here? I have

a note here about vacant positions.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, there is no anticipated

increase in the number of bodies that we have headcount on, George.

MR. MURPHY:

No?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Just recruitment for

vacancies which is constantly ongoing.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Further

down in 3.2.02, the Transportation and Communications line, if I can get a

breakdown of what is happening here.

Four hundred and ninety thousand dollars is your revised figure for this

year, against $466,700 budgeted.

That was also the same figure that was budgeted for the start of the fiscal

year.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Right.

That

increase was due to related inspection programs.

So I guess year to year different requirements are asked.

There are different requests for us to go out and inspect certain things.

Sometimes it can vary a little bit, so it is unanticipated costs

associated with that.

CHAIR:

Okay, thanks, George.

I tried

to be a little bit lenient here. We

will go back to Paul.

MR. LANE:

No problem.

Thank you.

Under

3.1.04, George actually asked all the questions, so we do not need to go back

there again in terms of the line items.

I will just ask one quick question, though, Mr. Minister.

You are probably going to say ask it in the house and I will do that too.

Not a problem, as you know.

I am hoping to get a more complete answer.

The

D250 standards for school buses, are there any plans to meet with the industry

to try to resolve that issue?

MR. CRUMMELL:

You know, when I was

minister last year, I did meet with the industry.

MR. LANE:

I know you did, yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

We have had conversations.

I believe that there has been communication with previous ministers since

I left Service NL, and now I am back again.

Right

now, there are no planned meetings scheduled that I am aware of.

That is as much information that can I provide on that.

MR. LANE:

Okay, thank you.

I thought I would ask.

Subhead

3.2.01, the Professional Services budget, I am assuming that is the

discretionary spending freeze as to why that amount was hardly spent; $15,800,

you only spent $1,600, back up to $15,800.

Is that correct?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

We were in a spending freeze through last year, and we obviously use that

budget on a regular basis. That is

why we want to make sure that is included at the same level as previous years.

So, last year was more of an anomaly than anything, plus the spending

freeze.

MR. LANE:

Yes.

The

same thing, I am assuming, for the Allowances and Assistance line that is there;

$83,100, you only spent $25,000, and then budgeting that is 3.2.01, under 09.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Is it the same thing?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Most of that decrease was

and the decrease was about $57,400.

There was not as much uptake in the bursary programs for students.

I have actually talked to my staff about that as well, and called that

one out. We want to make sure

students are aware that there are bursaries available under this program.

We would like to see that used, and we are going to be making sure the

awareness is out there and that we do get the applications that are needed to

drive that.

MR. LANE:

Yes, and that was my next

question. You kind of answered it,

but maybe if you could explain to me, because bursaries for students you say.

Can you explain what that is all about exactly?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We want to train the people

in this Province in the jobs that are required, certainly in special areas.

So, the environmental health officers in particular and other

environmental health. We have two

student jobs that we try to

OFFICIAL:

Two bursaries.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Two bursaries, I am sorry

two bursaries that we would provide to students.

That is there to encourage recruitment and training in this area where it

is a highly specialized field.

MR. LANE:

This is for internal training, then, is it?

Is that what it is?

MR. CRUMMELL:

MR. LANE:

Do you have a staff person

and they want to

MR. CRUMMELL:

Any student in the Province

can apply for a bursary for their studies in this area.

It covers living costs, tuition costs, whatnot.

The training, some of it happens here and some happens away.

ahead, Donna. I will let Donna give

MR. LANE:

Yes, I am

MS KELLAND:

As the minister said, we use this as a recruitment and retention tool for

students to enter our Environmental Health Inspection Program.

In past years we have had a number of difficulties recruiting people.

We do fund post-secondary studies, primarily at Cape Breton University,

where we fund their tuition and other school costs in exchange for return for

service when they become eligible to work for us.

We provide them with jobs.

We have used it in the past as a recruitment tool, primarily.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

You need somebody in a highly specialized area like health inspections,

for argument's sake, so to get somebody you are saying, we will pay for your

it is almost like what they do with doctors, physicians.

We will pay for your schooling or give you a bursary towards your

schooling and so on, and then you sign a contract saying that you will work for

us. That is the idea, is it?

MS KELLAND:

That is correct, yes.

MR. LANE:

When you do that, what is the requirement on their end?

I think

for doctors, they have to work in rural Newfoundland for like three years or

something like that. I think that

is what it is, something like that.

So, is it similar, in terms of the time that they are contracted to work?

MS KELLAND:

Yes, it is. It used to be two

years. I think we have increased it

to three years now, and it is in a position in an area of the department's

choosing. So, primarily it is used

to fill positions in rural areas of the Province.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MS KELLAND:

If they then decide to leave or to move on, they are required to pay that back

on a prorated basis.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

So,

obviously you did not get any applications last year, then.

That is why the numbers right?

MS KELLAND:

We actually from year to year will decide how many students we might need to

enter the program. We have not yet

done that for this year. As the

minister said, we are looking quite seriously at how many students we might need

this year. Last year we only had

one student. There were two other

students working their way through the program

MR. LANE:

Yes.

MS KELLAND:

so they had partial cost associated with that.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

That sounds like a good program to me.

Do we

have a full complement, by the way, of health inspectors now?

We do?

MS KELLAND:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Speaking of the health inspections, are there any plans now to start putting

inspection reports okay, let me ask it in this context.

Is there any money budgeted in here to start putting public facilities

inspections online?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We have done some

significant work in that area, and details to come.

MR. LANE:

Okay, I will look forward to

them. Thank you.

Under

Support Services, 3.2.01, part of this talks about what is involved there.

It talks about public safety functions, building and safety inspections,

and engineering services. Would the

people responsible for enforcing the blue zone regulations be included under

this staff complement under this section?

Is that where that would be?

MS KELLAND:

In part. They are also funded under

Regional Services for the inspections we do outside of the Avalon region.

So this would primarily cover the Avalon people, and then Regional

Services will cover the remainder of the staff.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Before

we get off the Avalon into regional, again under 3.2.01 and the staff complement

there, how many staff do you have that have a sole responsibility for enforcing

the blue zone regulations in the St. John's area or what have you?

How many people?

MS KELLAND:

In the St. John's area we have one dedicated inspector for buildings

technical inspectors in this region.

There are three in this region, and they would do that partially as part

of their other responsibilities.

That is just in the Avalon region.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

You

said building inspection; I am specifically speaking to the blue zone

regulations or legislation, whatever, ensuring that all businesses and so on

have the appropriate number, size, of blue zones with the proper vertical

signage and all that stuff. There

is one and three part-time who are responsible for that, or are you talking

for if you own a building, making sure there are ramps and elevators and all

that stuff, or is it both?

MS KELLAND:

So that when we do inspections we do it in a couple of different ways.

One is as new buildings are built, or if there are major renovations to a

building, we do a full inspection of those buildings prior to their being

occupied. So the parking lot, the

path of travel to the door of the building, and then the building itself are all

part of that inspection regime.

When we

are looking at something that we change for example, when we changed the

regulations recently and we have to actually go back and do retroactive

inspections and enforcement, that is done under a demand type of inspection

where we do blitzes and we do checking periodically as those folks who are doing

other responsibilities. It is kind

of a combination of those two things.

MR. LANE:

So how many

CHAIR:

Okay, one more question and

then we are back to George.

MR. LANE:

Okay, I am not going to

change topic on this one. How many

people are actually responsible for going out let me put it this way, in very

simple layman's terms. Do we have

somebody who is going around, for example the St. John's area today?

They are going to pick a day and they are going to drive around from

business to business, parking lot to parking lot and say, look, here is one that

is not compliant, here is another one, here is another one, and start writing

them up. Is that happening?

How

many people or staff people are actually doing that?

Or, is it a case of we are dealing with new builds, which is a good

thing, and all new builds must meet the criteria.

As far as anything that already exists, it is more on if somebody makes a

complaint we are going to deal with it.

Other than that, we might pick one or two days a year to do a blitz, but

there is nobody regularly going around patrolling looking for it.

Could you explain? I know it

is a mouthful.

MS KELLAND:

So if I think I understand your question, do I have somebody whose sole job it

is to check parking lots? The

answer would be no, but we do those combination of things that you mentioned,

which includes the periodic blitzes.

I think last year we probably did I would almost be guessing so I would

hesitate to give you a number.

There

are probably four or five times that we have gone out with a dedicated crew, so

it would not be just that one person.

We have sent a number of people out to do those checks.

We do respond to complaints.

We have a number of complaints coming from different people in the community.

Then we will send somebody out directly to deal with that complaint.

Does

that answer your question?

MR. LANE:

Yes, that kind of answers

CHAIR:

Okay, George.

We have gone well over now.

MR. LANE:

All right, I will come back

to it.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr.

Minister, just on the line of questioning as it is now when it comes to blue

zones and inspections, Donna had mentioned that there was one dedicated to

buildings and three, I believe, were part time.

Do I have that number right?

MR. CRUMMELL:

That is correct.

MR. MURPHY:

That is in the Northeast

Avalon, right?

MR. CRUMMELL:

That is in the Northeast,

yes.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

How many do we have in the rest of the Province?

MS KELLAND:

I think there are five positions which are, what we call, design approval

people. They do that as part of

There are eleven positions in total that I call the part-time positions.

Those are technical inspectors.

That would include the three here on the Avalon, plus the rest in other

areas of the Province. I think

there are eleven in total of those folks.

MR. MURPHY:

You feel that the Province

is being well served now with the number of inspectors that it has?

I know the latest report, for example, that I saw having to do with blue

zone inspections I think the latest report shows something in the order of 600

convictions. Am I right on that?

Is that the number that I heard, Mr. Minister?

MR. CRUMMELL:

George, that is Justice and

Public Safety.

MR. MURPHY:

Very substantial.

MR. CRUMMELL:

In that enforcement for

giving out tickets that would not be our people.

We would certainly provide the oversight and the enforcement with the

owners of buildings and properties, and making sure that their blue zone

requirements are following the legislation and the regulations that we have in

place. The broad question certainly

would be a question for the House.

It is not really a line item here in Estimates.

We feel

the amount of complaints that we get, which is not many, we deal with on a

regular basis as soon as they come our way.

We are out there with enforcement.

We are out there working with owners of buildings and people in this

Province.

Compliance rates in recent audits are very high.

There is partial compliance and full compliance.

We run into problems with partial compliance; one of the elements that

are in the regulations is not being met.

There are blue spaces in front of buildings and maybe the sign has fallen

down, maybe it is an older building and they do not have the aisle lane.

There are a few issues ongoing there where we would work with owners of

buildings, and also government buildings as well, to make sure that they meet

full compliance. You can always

make an argument that we do not have a police officer in every corner and a fire

truck in every neighbourhood, but that is back to reality.

MR. MURPHY:

If you ask me, I thought

that 600 number when I heard it, was pretty high.

I thought that the department was doing well when it came to lowering the

broom and getting the work done. I

do not know. Perhaps if you have

more statistics on that you might be able to release them in the future, just to

let everybody know how they are doing when it comes to blue zone well, not

just blue zone, but when it comes to the issues surrounding it, certainly.

I want

to come back to some line items.

Under 3.2.02, Regional Services I think is where some of the jobs in design and

eleven in technical would probably fall in here as well.

Your Salaries line last year was $7.3 million.

I think that this is probably just the 3 per cent here that I am looking

at. Your salary requirements this

year are $7.552 million. If I could

just get a quick breakdown of what is happening there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes, so the difference in

spend from last year to the previous year's budget was again due to vacancies,

recruitment delays, and partially offset by retirement.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes.

MR. CRUMMELL:

The increase is that 3 per

cent government-wide increase. That

3 per cent increase, actually, is $223,000, but there have been some attrition

savings as well of $170,000. So the

net net is $72,000.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

I think I asked about this one, actually.

The $466,700 line item under Transportation and Communications was

actually $490,000 this year.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Again, that increase was due

to the cost related to inspection programs.

MR. MURPHY:

Right.

MR. CRUMMELL:

You never know in a given

year how many times you are going to be asked to go and inspect.

You get people go to you and ask you to inspect a building or whatnot.

These are mostly electrical inspections, various inspections that we

provide to businesses and people of the Province.

MR. MURPHY:

This would be inspections

that would be done in this case for occupancy for a restaurant pre-opening, that

sort of thing? Is that where these

inspections would fall in here?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Electrical, Environmental

Health Officers who would be doing exactly restaurant inspections as well,

prior to openings. That is correct.

MR. MURPHY:

All right, that is great.

Under

your provincial revenue line here on the bottom, $1.983 million right across the

board, if I can get a breakdown of where that money comes from.

That might be because of fees when it comes to electrical permits, that

sort of thing.

MR. CRUMMELL:

That would be for issuance

of electrical permits, as well as planned review responsibilities that we would

go out and do as well.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, a quick note there.

All

right, thank you for that.

Coming

over to 3.3.01, Vital Statistics Registry; if I come down to the Revenue

Federal and Revenue Provincial lines, if I could just get a breakdown of what

is happening here. It looks like

some revenues were a little bit more than what was expected in this particular

year when it comes to the federal line and the provincial line as well.

Can I get a breakdown of both these lines here?

MR. CRUMMELL:

The increase of $65,800 was

due to new

OFFICIAL:

(Inaudible) information sharing.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Oh, right on.

There

is an information sharing agreement that we have with CRA and Service Canada, so

this ended up providing more revenue for services provided this past year.

This was a one year only anticipated revenue stream and we anticipate it

to go back to regular levels as it has in the past.

MR. MURPHY:

What kind of information

would you be sharing with CRA?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Births and deaths mostly.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

the provincial line there?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Just an increase in fees

that we received for again births, deaths, marriage licences, and that type of

thing. The revenue fluctuates from

year to year. We put a marker in

there of $50,000 every year and it is plus or minus.

MR. MURPHY:

All right, thanks for that.

Under

3.3.02, Queen's Printer, under Purchased Services here in this line, Minister,

it is only $2,000 that was spent this year against $48,500 anticipated, and

$30,000 anticipated for this year.

I wonder if we can get a breakdown of what is happening there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

The difference again is due

to less than anticipated requirements, what we spent last year, and also

certainly for the discretionary spending freeze that we put in place, so the due

diligence that was done around that.

The change from $48,500 to $30,000 for this year, again, reflect the

anticipated requirements and based on recent expenditure levels.

So looking at the trends and where we are to, that is where we think we

are going to land.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

the provincial revenue line here as well, if we can get a breakdown of what is

happening here.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Provincial revenue, it

varies year to year. Last year we

had a higher demand for services, an extra $31,000, so that is good for the

Province. Again when we look at the

increase of $10,000, it is just what we anticipate to get in revenue based on

our experience over the last couple of years.

CHAIR:

George, we are almost up to

3.3.03. Do you have a question or

two there that we could to finish off on, maybe, if you want to?

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, I do.

I was just going to go over to that page.

MR. CRUMMELL:

George, there were some

small fee increases as well with the Queen's Printer, just small increases that

will help build that extra dollars in revenue that we are showing.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, that is great.

Moving

on then to 3.3.03, Printing and Micrographic Services, I notice an increase in

Salaries here against what we had.

The actual this year and the budget, of course, there is a little bit of a

difference there. I wonder if we

can get a breakdown of what is happening there.

MR. CRUMMELL:

The increase of $6,200, that

is due to the 3 per cent government-wide increase.

That 3 per cent actually is $26,000 but, again, there are some attrition

savings that we are assuming of about $20,000, so the net-net is $6,200.

With

regard to the previous year, the decrease again of $87,200 was due to vacancies

and recruitment delays that was partially offset by retirement costs and related

costs, so a net-net decrease of $87,000 last year.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Are you

looking at anticipated hirings this time around?

MR. CRUMMELL:

We are anticipating to have

the full complement that we had in the past, so any vacancies that are out there

we will be filling.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Under

the Supplies line, Mr. Minister, $305,000 was the actual, the revised for this

year, against $467,400 budgeted, and this year you are only budgeting $337,400.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Right.

The decrease for last year of $162,400, that is due to less than expected

expenditures from delays in printing service.

When we look at the changes again, the decrease of $130,000 when we look

at 2014-2015 versus 2015-2016, that decrease of $130,000 is due to a

reallocation from the Supplies budget to Purchased Services.

I might get my deputy to explain that in a little bit more detail.

MR. MURPHY:

Yes, because I was just

going to ask you about the Purchased Services line there too, so it is just as

well to give us a breakdown of the whole works.

MR. PUDDESTER:

Some of the things required for doing the printing services have traditionally

been budgeted in the Supplies line while others were budgeted in the Purchased

Services line, but we realized when we looked at year-over-year expenditures we

really should be more appropriately adjusting those budgets to reflect what is

actually being spent in each.

Purchased Services, for example, we may need to go to hire external printing

companies to assist with certain printing jobs from time to time.

We rightsize the budgets for both of those basically.

So you are seeing a reallocation but when you look at both of them

combined, they are pretty consistent.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay.

Anything with Purchased Services, is that something that government would tender

out in this particular case?

MR. PUDDESTER:

I guess if it was a

tenderable service over the thresholds then, yes, that would be tendered.

MR. MURPHY:

Okay, the majority of it

would be tendered out.

MR. PUDDESTER:

I cannot speak specifically,

George, as to whether the majority is tendered out or not.

Donna, you might be able to add something.

MS KELLAND:

This area varies, as the

deputy said, but Purchased Services is also where we pay for our lease costs on

our machinery and equipment. So

those are click charges for copies that we make versus, say, the paper that is

going through the printer or the copier.

Again if we do not have the capacity to do a job ourselves, if it is an

emergency or something urgent, we would tend to let that go out to the private

sector.

MR. MURPHY:

You might have to go

outside.

CHAIR:

George

MR. MURPHY:

I was just going to say that

is all that I have.

CHAIR:

Okay, good, thanks.

Paul.

MR. LANE:

I want to go back to 3.2.01

because I did not finish the last time on the blue zones.

I think I have a handle on where we are, but I am just wondering who, of

these staff people who are here, I guess, is there somebody responsible I know

we said we basically have one full-time person for blue zones I think it is from

here to Clarenville. First of all,

can you correct me? Is that correct

when we talk about the one permanent person for blue zone enforcement?

How far out does that go?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Just the Avalon we are

talking about here. That full-time

person is there for the Avalon Peninsula.

MR. LANE:

For the entire Avalon?

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Plus three part-time.

MR. LANE:

There is a different person

cuts in then in after that.

MR. CRUMMELL:

Yes.

MR. LANE:

Okay.

Who is

responsible for ensuring that all the government-owned buildings, schools, all

that stuff is that being dealt with under these Salaries?

Are these people responsible for making sure that government facilities

are in compliance with blue zone legislation or is it on the department to do it

themselves?

MR. CRUMMELL:

First of all, Transportation

and Works is responsible to be in compliance just like any other business or

entity that is out there. Memorial

University or any other entities out there; the Eastern School District, they

are responsible to be in compliance.

We would provide the oversight.

We would provide the awareness

Document details

Collection	Newfoundland and Labrador — Committees
Citation	2015-05-06
Type	committee
Volume / chapter	committees_standingcommittees_govservices_ga47_2015-05-06gscservicenlandworkplacehealthsafetyandcompensationreviewdivision.html
Language	en
Format	html
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	89c6801d06b21d531a60bfdbabef70e05f39803e

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (html).