Manitoba Hansard — 15 October 1990 (Sitting 3B, 35th Legislature, 1st Session)

35-1-3b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

G-8048 First Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 39 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XXXIX No. 3B -8:00 p. m., MONDAY, OCTOBER 15, 1990 Printed by Ille Office of the a-s Printer, Province of Manitoba ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Leglslature Members, Constituencies and Polltlcal Afflllatlon NAME ALCOCK, Reg ASHTON, Steve BARRETT, Becky CARR, James CARSTAIRS, Sharon CERILLI, Marianne CHEEMA, Guizar CHOMIAK, Dave CONNERY, Edward, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. DACOUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. EDWARDS, Paul ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim, Hon. EVANS,Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY,Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. HARPER, Elijah HELWER, Edward R.

HICKES, George LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATHLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MALOWAY, Jim MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. MclNTOSH, Linda MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. PENNER, Jack, Hon. PLOHMAN, John PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack RENDER, Shirley ROCAN, Denis, Hon. ROSE, Bob SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric STORIE, Jerry SVEINSON, Ben VODREY, Rosemary WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy WOWCHUK, Rosann CONSTITUENCY Osborne Thompson Wellington Crescentwood River Heights Radisson The Maples Kildonan Portage la Prairie Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin-Russell Selkirk Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Riel St. James Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. Boniface Minnedosa Rupertsland Gimli Point Douglas Inkster The Pas St. Norbert Elmwood Morris Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Assinibola River East Rossmere Pembina Emerson Dauphin Lac du Bonnet Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Gladstone Turtle Mountain Broadway Kirkfield Park Flin Flon La Verendrye Fort Garry St. Johns Swan River PARTY.

Liberal NDP NOP Liberal Liberal NOP Liberal NOP PC PC PC PC NOP NOP PC PC PC Liberal PC PC NOP NOP PC PC NOP Liberal PC NOP PC NDP Liberal NOP PC NOP PC NDP PC PC PC PC PC PC PC NOP PC NOP PC PC PC PC NOP PC NOP PC PC NOP NDP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, October 15, 1990 The House met at 8 p.m. THRONE SPEECH DEBATE Mr. Speaker: On the continuing debate for the Honourable Member for Fort Garry for an address to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor in answer to his speech at the opening of the Session, the Honourable Member for Thompson. Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I want to take this opportunity to join in the traditional congratulations to you in your elevation to probably not only one of the most significant, but also one of the most difficult offices in this Cha mbe r, ce rtainl y o ne of the most challengi ng r ole s th at any Member of the Legislature can ever undertake. I want to do so in joining with some of the general expressions of appreciation for your evenhandedness and fairness in the last Legi slature, the Sessions that you presided over in this House, but also to speak as House Leader for our caucus.

Having had the unique opportunity, both in the last Session of the Legislature and in the preparations for this Session, of being able to deal with you on many particular occasions in terms of discussions related to this Chamber, and I will say-and I hear the words of the former Government House Leader who referred to your having dealt fairly with many of those issues of concern, and I certainly echo those statements. I also wish to extend congratulations to those who have been elevated to the positions of Deputy Speaker and Deputy Chair of Committees.

I want to indicate to them that it-and those Members of the Legislature will well know that I have been talking about an increase in the minimum wage over the last period of time. Those Members, when they see how much time they have to put in to those two positions may also wish to join me in seeking an increase in the minimum wage, because I think it might lead to some increase in the amount of remuneration that is paid for those two positions, certainly exceeds the level of the minimum wage in this province, but I wish to extend congratulations to them. Of course, Mr.

Speaker, congratulations to the new Members in this Chamber. Already this being essentially the second day of sitting in this House I think we are seeing that already there is going to be a different style in this Legislature because of the new Members, and I look forward to working with them. I know I am very excited about the number of new Members on our side of the House. I am very pleased to be working with so many of them, and I look forward also to the contributions of all the Members of this House.

I also want to pay tribute to those Members of this House from the previous Legislature who either chose not to run or in some cases, Mr. Speaker, were not re-elected to this Assembly. I want to pay particular tribute to a number of people with whom I worked very closely in our caucus: Bill Uruski, the Member for Interlake, first elected in 1969, who served for 21 years in the Legislature. I say this with no disrespect to the current Member for Interlake (Mr.

Clif Evans) and I say it actually as an encouraging note, because I can say he will have very big shoes to follow in terms of following in the steps of the Member for Interlake. Although having seen his contributions in our caucus I feel he is very well qualified and may indeed match or better the previous Member for lnterlake's 21 years of service in this House. I also wish to pay tribute to somebody that I worked with very closely over the years, Jay Cowan, who did not seek re-election because of the change in the boundaries. I think it is important to pay tribute to his 13-year contribution to this House.

He came in, I think, in a very aggressive period in Manitoba politics, very volatile period during the Lyon Government and became one of the acknowledged parliamentarians of this Assembly. Probably in the last decade, I think I can truthfully say that there will be very few Members of this House who had as good a grasp of the parliamentary system and respect for the parliamentary system as he did. I also want to pay tribute to two Members, the former Member for Logan, Maureen Hemphill, with whom I was elected in 1981, and the former Member for The Pas, Harry Harapiak.

A member of the current class of '90 referred to the current Members

75 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 who were elected to the Legislature, I lqok fondly back to those who were elected in 1981 , a number of whom are still sitting in this House. I really cannot believe that I am no longer sitting with Harry Harapiak and Maureen Hemphill, that they have chosen to-I say retire. I do not wish to leave the impression, Mr. Speaker, that they have given up any involvement certainly in politics. I know both of those Members, as the two I mentioned previously will be continuing very actively over the next period of time.

I also want to pay tribute to those Members whose contribution to this Legislature may have been more brief. I say that as someone who was elected by 72 votes in 1981. I had the rather difficult position on election night in 1981 of having been declared defeated for an hour and then having been elected afterwards because of a recalculation of the vote. *

(2005) It is interesting when one looks at politics to see just how volatile politics has become. I do not believe in any way, shape or form that volatility should in any way reflect on the contribution of those Members no matter how long or short their stay has been in this House. I believe they deserve to be congratulated on their contribution to public service in Manitoba. In fact, if I might make one comment before getting into the main body of my speech, I wish to a certain extent there was greater recognition of that. In the last number of years we have had a great deal of turnover in this House.

I have seen a number of former Members of this House go through some pretty tough adjustments in return to shall we say normal as in non-political life. I think in large part the partisanship that is very much a factor of public life has tended to make it very difficult for people to readjust to public life, particularly those who have interrupted their jobs, career patterns, and have been here for a very short period of time. I would hope, Mr.

Speaker, that regardless of the partisanship we show in this House it would be greater recognition of the contribution of Members of this Chamber, regardless of which Party they have sat with, which Government or which Opposition. In beginning my remarks today I want to do one thing and state it very clearly for the record, and that is to my constituents in the constituency of Thompson. I want to say that in 1981 when I was first elected -(interjection)- 72 votes as the Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) reminds me of, 72 votes. My commitment then was to put the people of Thompson first.

As I stand here today entering my fourth term as the Member of the Legislature for Thompson, representing not only the City of Thompson now, but seven new communities, the communities of Wabowden, Thicket Portage, Pikwitonei, llford, Nelson House, Split Lake and York Landing, I want to say to my new constituents equally, as I say to the people of Thompson, that my commitment is to them. It is a commitment that I intend to practise throughout the four years or whatever period we may be into the next number of- An Honourable Member: Two. Mr. Ashton: We will discuss that in a few minutes, Mr.

Speaker, but whatever period of time we are sitting In this Legislature I will put their concerns first. I also want to make another commitment that I made in 1981 to my constituents and that is that I will not be just around at election time, that I will not just show up on their doorstep to ask for their support during elections, but that I will be there in between elections, that I will be there. I remember when I was elected in 1981 people said, well, we will see you again in four years. You know, there is a certain element of cynicism that has developed around politics and, yes, even politicians.

I think it is incumbent on all of us, Mr. Speaker, in showing this public service to get out there and talk to people, because that is how we can most effectively represent them. I can honestly say that I always appreciate the feedback of my constituents. I find that it is a breath of fresh air leaving this Chamber, returning to my constituency and getting out and talking to people, regardless of the time of year, the weather. I really feel that my re-election this year is not the result of any particular personal effort, but I believe it was a statement on behalf of the people of the Thompson constituency.

I want to get into exactly what it was, why they made that decision on the 11th of September. What were they looking at? What were they deciding? I believe in many ways there was an element of frustration there. It is a frustration that we are seeing increasingly across this country. I had a lot of people essentially tell me they felt like strangers in their own country. They felt like they were on the outside looking in.

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 76 Mr. Speaker, without getting into the particular partisanship of any particular issues, just look at the last number of years. Free trade-yes , the Government was re-elected , the federal Conservative Government, but a majority of people opposed free trade. It went through anyway because of our system. Meech Lake-regardless of who signed what or proposed what or said what, I think most people felt left out of Meech Lake. The GST-who can look at what is happening in Ottawa now and feel proud of Canada? I do not-our Canadian system, our parliamentary system so abused. *

(2010) I am not the only one saying that. People are saying, I mean, who would have ever thought that 85 percent of the people can be against something, and the decision on whether it goes through or not is not in the House of Commons or the people, but the appointed Senate? -(interjection)- Mr. Speaker, I am not talking tongue in cheek, for the Minister of Justice. I am expressing the frustration that is out there from people across this country and that is being expressed increasingly by my constituents, being expressed by people in my constituency. Mr.

Speaker, Members are talking about past elections in Manitoba, the 1988 election or the 1990 election in Ontario. I think it is all part of the same phenomenon. I would say that I believe that the New Democratic Party of Manitoba learned that lesson earlier certainly than the Liberals in Ontario and I would say the Liberals in Manitoba. They learned that people are tired of not being listened to and indeed of cynical politics. I really credit the fact that our party rebounded to become official Opposition for the fact that we got the message in 1988. Boy, did we get the message.

For those of us who sat here as part of the 12-person caucus, did we ever get the message. I want to say, whether it be to the Liberals in Ontario who are perhaps still trying to figure out what happened there-I know a lot of people in the New Democratic Party are also trying to figure out what happened there as well, because I certainly in my lifetime never expected to see an NOP Government, certainly not this rapidly. As we look at what is happening in province after province across this count ry and at the federal level, indeed, Mr.

Speaker, or in Saskatchewan where I believe there will soon be a change of Government or B.C., where there will soon be a change of Government, the lesson is clear: Listen to the people; listen to their concerns, and to the Conservatives of this province who, yes, have a mandate, a renewed mandate: Listen. If they do not, I can indicate they will be held accountable by this New Democratic Party Opposition. Boy, will they be held accountable.

They will see throughout this Session and upcoming Sessions of the Legislature that if they try, for example, to bring out a hidden agenda on social issues or health issues or economic issues that we will remind them of what they said in the last election, that we will remind them of the fine phrases of the throne speech. We will hold them accountable. If they do not listen to the people of Manitoba, we will make them listen. That is why, as I said in Thompson, that was the framework which people looked at. I want to say that the election results were clear.

They were clear not only in Thompson but in many other constituencies. People said they wanted a Party, in the North in particular, that would listen to Northerners and that it was the New Democratic Party. That is why I was re-elected, because of that support. That is why we elected Members in three other northern constituencies, but we saw in rural seats as well, increasingly, rural Manltobans looking again at the New Democratic Party. Look at the constituency of Swan River, a Conservative stronghold apart from two years, for over 30 years I believe.

It has been Conservative for as long as people can remember, now represented by a New Democrat. Let us look at, Mr. Speaker, the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman). I mean, we should not ask how many of the Ministers today campaigned in his riding, I think we should ask who did not, because I think they virtually all did. I must say that it appears to me that every time they campaigned in the constituency of Dauphin his vote went up. I certainly know when the Minister of Northern Affairs or the Minister of Natural Resources-the Premier came to my riding-our vote went up in Thompson.

So I think they should watch very, very, very closely the response of the people of Dauphin. I look at the City of Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker. I look at the City of Winnipeg and look at the Members, the excellent group of new Members that we have elected in seats that perhaps had been represented by the New Democratic Party before, but where in

77 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 1988, indeed, we had been sent the message. They showed increasingly that the New Democratic Party is on the move again. It is rebuilding in the City of Winnipeg. I must point out, Mr. Speaker, for the record that what we have seen in this election is: once again there is only one Party that represents people from all areas of Manitoba. It is not the Conservatives, not the Liberals, it is the New Democratic Party-the North, the rural areas of Manitoba, and the City of Winnipeg. I will say proudly that we are a Party that represents all those areas equally.

That is why we continue to be in that position today with a strength in caucus that represents all three areas. *

(2015) Well, Mr. Speaker, I am glad the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) is listening so intently to my comments, because he should know. He should know that the Throne Speech Debate gives Members of this House an opportunity to address general questions, general issues. If I do not quote too extensively from the throne speech tonight, I hope Members will forgive me. Well, I will thank the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mccrae), because he should know from looking at this document that it Is rather a weak document.

Any document that in the current economic circumstances talks about the mandate of this Government being to build a strong economy with new and better jobs for our young people, quality health, education and social services available to all, I mean this Government that has been in office for more than two years has done none of that. Do they expect us to spend very much time analyzing the rest of this document? I mean, I could point to some of the other inconsistencies in this document. I found the

section on the Government examining ways of fostering employee ownership, such an initiative may provide progressive alternatives to plant closings and business liquidations. Mr. Speaker, for two and a half years we have been standing here, the New Democratic Party. We introduced legislation that would strengthen plant closure legislation in this province, would bring this and a lot more for workers who are daily being hit by plant closure after plant closure. Now they are announcing this in the throne speech.

Well, I say to the people of Manitoba, do not hold your breath, because we have seen where the Conservatives stand on issues such as plant closure and what we will see in the upcoming period of times that all the fine-sounding phrases of the throne speech will not do anything for the working people who are daily being affected by plant closures and layoffs. Well, there are other phrases in here that just floored me. It says here, and Canadians are not alone in this new spirit of activism-activism, Mr. Speaker. Since when have Conservatives espoused any sort of activism anywhere at any time? They never have.

It is not part- An Honourable Member: In the Senate. Mr. Ashton: In the Senate. Yes, they espouse activism in the Senate. The only active thing involved with that I think is trying to get your name before the Prime Minister before he stacks it. In fact what I find interesting currently with the Senate is that about 4 percent of the people of Canada currently say they strongly support the GST. I figure that probably the Conservative Senate and those on the list for getting in the Conservative Senate; that is how bad it is getting in this country, but activism, Mr. Speaker, activism?

I mean this Government has already shown how much of a difficulty it has in dealing with community-based groups whether it be in the social services or in terms of education. Activism, Mr. Speaker. Did they appreciate the activism of tenants groups, housing groups trying to fight for fairer legislation for tenants? Did they, Mr. Speaker? No. They pulled the Bill because the landlords and the real estate lobby got a hold of them first. Let us not be fooled by the fine phrases in this throne speech. Well, Mr.

Speaker, it is interesting because I went through some of the previous Conservative throne speeches from the Lyon Government. There are some similarities and there are some differences as well. A lot of the right-wing rhetoric that we are beginning to see creep into the language of this Government did indeed appear in many of those same throne speeches that were brought forward by the previous Government; I think it is because there is a pattern in this province that after elections Conservatives tend to be Conservatives. They are certainly not Conservatives during elections.

We found this out in 1990, but they tend to bring out their right-wing agenda. They tend to, as has been confirmed by the Premier (Mr. Filmon), say they are going to review

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 78 labour legislation, something they never mentioned in the election. They talk, Mr. Speaker, in their throne speech about tough times and tough budgets. We certainly did not hear a discussion of that in the last election . There is even somewhere in this document a reference to a recession . An Honourable Member: That "r" word. Mr. Ashton: A recession. Well, I think there are a number of •rw words, Mr. Speaker, that the Conservatives either use with limited measure or not at all. Well , I mentioned recession.

It is interesting the Lyon Government came up front and said it: "restraint. ff Cute, attractive restraint, the "rff word. You read this document, it is not there. It is not there. Interesting! I think it is because perhaps somewhere in this front bench, some of whom sat in the Lyon Government, they have said you know what killed us in 1981 in the election was that we started talking about restraint. In the first year, in the second year, in the third year, in the fourth year of our Government people did not want that.

They wanted basic health services protected, they wanted basic social services, they wanted job creation. Let us not talk about restraint. Let us call it something else but let us not call it restraint. •

(2020) Mr. Speaker, I really believe they missed something. It does not matter what you call it or whether you even put it in at all. The kind of restraint that we have seen practised by the Conservatives federally or here in Manitoba, the kind of- An Honourable Member: Responsible Government, that is what they say. Mr. Ashton: Well, Mr. Speaker, they can call it whatever they want.

They can add whatever media spin they want to it but the types of policies we have seen from Conservative Governments, the "r" word of restraint, are not supported in the long run by the people of this province because the people of this province want us to maintain health and social services. Well, I have a few "r" words again for the Conservatives if they want: reactionary , regressive. They do not mention that either but that is implied. An Honourable Member: Real mean. . Mr. Ashton: Real mean but the bottom line, Mr. : Speaker, is they have missed the boat.

It is not what ' you call the policies, it is the policies. If you insist on trotting out the same right-wing agenda in 1990 as you have in other years it will not work . What scared me on election night was the Premier (Mr. Filmon) at the election rally talking about a Tory is a Tory is a Tory, a majority is a majority is a majority. Well, Mr. Speaker, first of all in 1986 we thought a majority was a majority was a majority. It is not necessarily so.

The second thing is the moment you start thinking that way and acting that way and feeling that as a majority Government you can do things you could not do as a minority is the moment you begin to stop listening to the people of this province and I believe that is what has happened. This Government has already begun the process . They began the process on election night of not listening to the people of this province. I want to say for the record that, yes, a Tory is a Tory is a Tory, and we will be reminding people of that throughout the next period of time.

I must say I was quite amazed because for the last number of years I must admit I took a few shots at the Minister of Justice who a number of years ago, people may remember this, the middle of the debate over the CF-18, he had the brilliant idea, he had the brilliant idea, Mr. Speaker, he said, well if people do not like the federal Conservatives, how about we change the name of the party? Well, he was ahead of his time because in 1990 the pollster sat down with the Premier and said, we are sorry but it just will not cut being a Progressive Conservative. Visionary. You know, Mr.

Speaker, they followed the inspiration of the Member for Brandon West, and low and behold the word Progressive Conservative, or PC, was expunged from their signs, expunged from their leaflets, expunged from their tv commercials. I am actually surprised that they even put it anywhere, and I understand that there was probably some lengthy debate -(interjection)-well the Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner), I am surprised that they did not put PC on the back of their signs and slap them up on peoples' walls so that they could say that they have got it written somewhere, because it was sure under covers.

It was sure undercover. But you know, they fooled some people, but not all of the people because I know in my constituency, people went around and they saw the picture of the Premier and the local candidate, and they said, those are the Conservatives are they not? And the rest, Mr. Speaker, the voting results spoke for themselves. I want to say to the Conservatives, it may have worked in 1990, but when people see your agenda and see that it is not different from what you

79 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 have done before, and what you are doing federally, do not expect people to buy that again. You are Conservatives, you are Conservatives, you are Conservatives. Well, let us look in my area at some of the issues of concern, and just what people had to say about the agenda of this Government. There are a number of major issues, northern tax allowance is an issue. A number of communities, Thompson and Wabowden previously represented by the Member for Flin Flon, the Conservative government cannot figure out that Thompson and Wabowden are northern.

Why do you expect, Mr. Speaker, people in communities-I just drove up yesterday to my constituency, we already have three inches of snow on the ground. It has been minus 13 a number of times already. I come here it is like another end of the continent. •

(2025) Mr. Speaker, people were upset, and they are also upset, yes at the Conservatives, because it seems on issues like this, whenever you get a Conservative Government you get this kind of treatment in the north. Health care, a major concern in my area, and why should it not be. The intensive care unit at the Thompson General Hospital has been shut down because of a nurses shortage. I raised this in estimates. I warned it was going to happen a year ago, in this Chamber, and what did the Minister of Health say? There is no shortage of nurses.

He had better mark those words very carefully because there is a shortage indeed, and if he continues, and this Government continues his confrontational approach to the health care professionals, there may be more than a shortage in the next few months when the nurses' contract comes up, because nurses, certainly in my constituency and across this province are saying they are sick and tired of being taken for granted and it has impacted in my constituency in terms of the level of health care available. Education, Mr. Speaker, education.

This Government has shown in terms of northern education how callous it is, cutting the Limestone Training Program with no consultation with anyone. When Conawapa is being developed, one of the most regressive steps they have taken in terms of education. Let us look at what is happening to the ACCESS programs in my constituency, and for the information of members, and I say this because the Conservative candidate in Thompson was under the understanding that you had to be either economically or emotionally disadvantaged to get into the ACCESS programs. They are there, Mr.

Speaker, for people who perhaps have never had the opportunity to go to high school, fully through high school. Many people in many northern communities do not have a high school even to this day. They are there, they have been there for the last number of years, they are working. What has this provincial Government done? It has already given notice to the programs. It stood idly by the last couple of years. It has watched the Northern Development Agreement lapse. It has not renegotiated a new Northern Development Agreement. It has contributed $30 million to a Southern Development Initiative.

You will have to excuse me, Mr. Speaker. I do not mean any offense to the communities that will benefit from this program, but representing communities in my constituency, they do not have sewer and water. Seeing this Government sign the Southern Development Initiative and not sign a Northern Development Agreement for even things like sewer and water and yes indeed for education and for economic development. I would say that shows a rather poor set of priorities. Those were concerns and people spoke very clearly.

The economy-a major concern, particularly in the remote communities in my constituency , and they have already seen, and this was with a minority Government, Mr. Speaker, that the Conservatives have cut back on job creation. I was In communities such as Wabowden and Nelson House and Split Lake and York Landing. They have already seen the difference. They have already seen the difference that a Government can make. Yes, Mr. Speaker, perhaps it was a unique time for an election, but the concerns of my aboriginal constituents were very much in the forefront.

Only a few months after Meech Lake, during the middle of the Oka crisis, I saw people make a clear statement to all of us. You know, I really had felt that in the nine years I have been in this Legislature, I have spoken on many aboriginal issues. I have been involved with my caucus Members in many initiatives involving aboriginal people, but I have never seen a statement as clear as this. It makes one think.

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 80 When we saw what happened with Meech Lake, how our aboriginal people were left out entirely from the process and left out of the Constitution, how much longer can we continue that? With treaty land claims, Mr. Speaker, bounced around between different levels of Government, how long can we continue with that? With the types of conditions that exist in many Native communities, how long can we continue to ignore what has happened? How long can we continue to ignore it? •

(2030) Those were the types of concerns that were expressed in my constituency. I will be raising many of these issues, Mr. Speaker , but there is a clear message as well I think that was coming through loud and clear. That is that it is not just a question of what we do in this Legislature any more. It is, what is going to happen at the grassroots level? In my constituency and constituencies across this province, I take the case of aboriginal people. Aboriginal people are no longer willing to sit back and watch election after election roll by and nothing happen.

They are no longer willing to follow the traditional mechanisms that have been put into place. They are demanding that those concerns be dealt with. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I know as an MLA, as a New Democratic Party MLA, that I and our caucus will be putting those issues on the front burner. Never again will the concerns of aboriginal people be on the back burner in this province. If anyone believes that that situation can continue for any length of time, they should talk to the people directly. Do not stay in this building. Get out and talk to people . There is a very serious situation developing.

You know, Mr. Speaker, that is the real activism out there. It is not the phraseology that the Conservatives use. People are beginning to seek a term that those of us in the New Democratic Party have talke d about for some time. That is empowerment. It is aboriginal people; it is women; the handicapped; the poor; virtually anyone in this society who has sat back on the outside looking in for so many years. They are beginning to say, it is just not good enough any more; it is just not good enough. That is the frustration that is out there. We can talk about swings to the right and swings to the left, Mr.

Speaker, in an abstract, academic, political sense, but the real swing that is taking place now is toward that feeling that people want to be empowered. It is broad; it is broad. There have always been people seeking that empowerment, but it is beginning to grow. Take the frustrations, for example, of many of my constituents working at lnco. They recently received a $2,000 signing bonus. You know how much they got back from the $2,000 signing bonus? $1,030.00. People said, how can this happen? How can you end up losing that as a regular wage earner? I want to say, Mr.

Speaker, that tenants in my constituency are sick and tired of waiting for action on their concerns, people living in conditions that can only be described as disgusting. That is in my constituency. People drive by apartments in my constituency on a daily basis. They never go in. They never see the conditions that people live in, the disgusting conditions. People are beginning to organize tenants groups .

Poverty issues-I do not know how many times I have seen people on social assistance in my constituency with the frustration they face in dealing with a system that even many of us in this Legislature, who deal with it on a daily basis, find frustrating. I have seen many people moving toward empowerment, establishing their own anti-poverty organizations. Wome~there is a great deal of activism out there. People are seeking empowerment on issues involving abuse, family violence. There is something happening out there, Mr. Speaker.

It may be hard for this Government to understand, but I think those of us in the New Democratic Party understand what it is all about. Mr. Speaker, I want to say that I appreciate the support of the people of my constituency for the fourth term, but I want to say to them quite clearly that my role is not simply in this Legislature. I will be working for the people in my constituency toward that empowerment, toward that greater economic and social justice.

When I look at our caucus-I think it should be put on the record-one looks at the people we have here, this broad representation of people from across this province. Then it is going to be on their agenda as well, as individuals and as caucus Members. The bottom line is that we do not want to be on the outside anymore. No Canadian should be on the outside looking in, whether it is GST, whether it is

81 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 Meech Lake or free trade, or whether it is community issues, and yes, community issues, because poverty and housing conditions and unemployment are community issues. People are sick and tired of being on the outside looking in. Our Leader on election night said-I thought it was a very appropriate comment-that we saw the end of the "me" decade of the 1980s. I really look forward to the development of what I hope will be the "us" decade of the 1990s, recognizing that the solution to our problems, Mr.

Speaker, in this province and in this country comes from all of us working together. There may be recognition that there are some times when there are people who do not have the best interests of us at heart, that they march to a different drum, they have a different agenda , whether it is hidden or not hidden. I think that is something that all Members of this Legislature should look at. I do not mean this as a political shot at the Liberals, but I think in many ways people felt that the Liberal Party was too closely tied to the corporate agenda.

It just will not be good enough in the decade of the 1990s for the old ways of politics to continue. Well, Mr. Speaker, what I may be talking about may sound a bit idealistic at times, but I guess I had an advantage in being elected in 1981, at the age of 25, the youngest Member. In fact, I must say it is nice to no longer be the youngest Member in our caucus. The Member for Radisson (Ms. Carilli) has taken over that honour, and I consider that, because it gives her the opportunity to speak on behalf of the new generation of young people who are asking that their concerns be heard. Mr.

Speaker, even now after four terms, after nine years, I start finding myself coming back to that idealism. I think in virtually every throne speech I have referred to what I feel politics is all about, certainly what the New Democratic Party is all about. I have quoted it before and will quote it again. I think it is applicable now more than ever. It is a quote from J. S. Woodsworth: "What we desire for ourselves, we wish for all." That is us; that is we, not me.

It may be something that could apply to people a bit more generally if they would only really think about it, even perhaps some Members on the Government side. Think about it. Do you really have anything to fear from people being in power having their concerns dealt with? Do you really have anything to fear? Do you really have anything to fear about new ways in politics, trying to get that grass roots involvement, that community involvement? I know my view is quite clear, and the view of the New Democratic Party is clear. We do not fear that.

In fact we look forward to that as being part of the creative process of change in the 1990s. As I said at the beginning, my commitment is still to my constituents. I would like to have a role to play on the broader provincial perspective, but my commitment is to my constituents to work together with them for that improved society, whether it be in terms of health, social services, the economy, opportunities, aboriginal rights, rights for Northerners generally. That is my commitment as it was in 1981 and will be my commitment for the upcoming Legislature. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mrs.

Louise Dacquay (Seine River): I am honoured to stand before this Assembly as a representative of the people of Manitoba and of the Seine River constituency in particular. It is on their behalf that I take on the challenges that confront us. Let me congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on your appointment as Speaker of this Assembly. Over the last two years you have demonstrated that you possess the necessary qualifications to perform these auspicious duties in a distinguished manner.

I would also at this time like to thank Premier Filmon for the confidence that he has placed in me and the opportunity that has been afforded me to serve as Deputy Speaker and Chairperson of the Committees of the Whole House. I am looking forward to the challenge and the opportunity to work co-operatively with all Members to ensure the preservation of order, decorum and the adherence of the Rules of the House. I am pleased to extend sincere congratulations to all new Members on their election and to all former Members on their re-election.

I wish you continued success in your endeavours as you fulfill your mandate as elected representatives of this Legislature. I would also like to congratulate the mover of the throne speech, the Honourable Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey), for her enlightening, sincere response. I am both privileged and very proud to be one of the five women MLAs who were elected as members of the Filmon team.

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 82 •

(2040) My sincere congratu!ations to the Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Rose), who seconded the throne speech and gave us an informative review of his constituency which he so ably represents. I am indebted to the people of Seine River constituency for the confidence they have placed in me, and I pledge to listen to their concerns and work diligently to justify their confidence. I also owe a debt of gratitude to the hundreds of talented and capable volunteers who worked together as a team to orchestrate an effective campaign.

Seine River constituency located in the southeast quadrant of the City of Winnipeg is a new constituency which was formulated as a result of the Electoral Boundaries Commission Review. It is bounded on the north by Bishop Grandin Boulevard, on the west by the Red River, on the east by the Seine River, and on the south by the southeast limit of the City of Winnipeg. (Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Acting Speaker, in the Chair) Seine River has both urban and rural.

This area has the distinction of experiencing the fastest growth of any other urban area and typifies urban expansion on lands that less than 1 0 years ago were prime, fertile farm land. The rural area known as St. Germain is largely agricultural based and has a predominance of large market gardening operations, but it is also unique In that it has one of the few remaining dairy farm operations within the confines of the City of Winnipeg boundaries.

Seine River is the second largest constituency based on Elections Manitoba's compilation of enumerated voters and could potentially be the largest by the time the next provincial election is called. This area continues to experience new growth as a direct result of the ongoing development. Small business is the cornerstone of economic activity in this constituency. The numerous strip malls located on the major arteries of Bishop Grandin, St. Anne's Road, St.

Mary's Road, Dakota and Meadowwood include professional offices, insurance agencies, real estate agencies, restaurants, specialty shops and major food and clothing establishments to name a few. Additionally, the St. Vital Shopping Centre is strategically located on the northern boundary of my constituency. Seine River constituency has a predominance of young double-income families, many of whom are experiencing the pride of ownership in their first home. There is also a strong diversified cultural base.

A sense of community and belonging to prevails, even though the majority of the families grew up in other areas of the city and province. As I canvassed door to door, I had the pleasure of meeting many former students who were born, raised and educated in the Fort Garry area. Mr. Acting Speaker, let me tell you a little bit about my background. I have had the advantage of living in both a rural community and an urban community. I was born in Manitou, raised in Carman and moved to Winnipeg after completing high school to further my education.

I have resided in Winnipeg for over 30 years and have always been proud to be a Manitoban. My professional career has been extensive, exciting and varied. After having taught Business Education at the higli school level for 17 and a half years at both Selkirk Collegiate and Vincent Massey Collegiate in Fort Garry, I ventured into the private sector. I acquired 10 years private industry experience in capacities ranging from executive director to property manager to regional organizer and was employed in an advertising agency, in real estate development and the Progressive Conservative Party in Manitoba.

In each and every one of the various careers I have chosen, I have been fortunate to have the support of a very dedicated family. I have been happily married for 28 and and a half years to an extremely supportive second generation Franco-Manitoban. My two sons were both born in Winnipeg, are independent, gainfully employed and continue to build their futures in Manitoba with hope and optimism. Getting into the unpredictable world of politics was something that as a child I had never dreamed of.

However, the steadying quiet influence of my father, Horace White, a long-time Carman resident, cons tituent and supporter of the Honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), and friend and former constituent of the Honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) proved instrumental in my decision to increase my personal and professional commitment to the community by seeking an elected office. I am very proud of my father's accomplishment. He was very active in community politics and he served on both the Carman School

83 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 Board and the Rural Municipal Council. He served as Chief Financial Officer for both provincial and federal Conservative candidates for over 25 years. In April of 1987, he was made an honorary life member of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba and In August 1989 was awarded the Macdonald-Cartier Award. Mr. Acting Speaker, in October 19861 was elected as a city councillor for Langevin ward and served on numerous boards and committees.

I sincerely believe that the experience I gained through civic politics has provided me with insight into relevant urban issues, some of which include such economic issues as taxes, investment, and sustainable development, social issues such as health and community services, issues pertaining to education and an ever-burning issue with all constituents, responsible accountable Government.

As I canvassed Seine River constituency several times during the recent provincial election, all areas twice and even some areas a third time, the primary concerns were the high property taxes, the need to build a strong economy with new and better jobs for our young people while preserving the quality of life for all Manitobans. I am confident that this Government will once again introduce amendments to The City of Winnipeg Act which will address the size of city council and help to reduce the uncontrolled spending at city hall.

While building upon our strengths, we need at the same time to enhance our strengths. The province's economic strengths are numerous and can be further enhanced. Manitoba is blessed with a diversified resource base, a strong manufacturing sector, mature social and physical infrastructure, a healthy environment and a strong entrepreneurial spirit. These factors combined with a positive economic climate will ensure strong and dynamic growth. In these difficult times we must encourage private investment, a strong business climate and fulfill our responsibility to spend wisely.

This Government, I am confident, will do just that. In the Winnipeg 2000 Report, the Winnipeg Task Force on Economic Development identified a number of key sectors where Winnipeg can be competitive in attracting new business, including health care, information processing, goods and services for transport and telecommunications industries, aeronautics, high technology support goods and services and specialized agricultural goods and services. We must build upon these strengths. Those who take risks must be rewarded and new ideas must be nurtured. *

(2050) Our Government has already done away with the payroll tax for a significant number of Manitoba businesses and has cut personal taxes as well. We are committed to doing even more to reduce the burden which has been placed on those in the private sector who play an integral role in promoting employment and the economic well being of our province. This is the task that this Government has undertaken and the one which I personally am dedicated to for the good of those whom I represent and for all Manitobans. Rural, urban and northern residents must be participants in economic renewal in the province.

We must ensure that policies for the capital region, for rural and for northern Manitoba are mutually supportive and result in improved and balanced growth throughout the province. B.usiness and local councils within each region of Manitoba must be encouraged to find a niche they can fill in the marketplace. We need to find ways of establishing more symbiotic relationships between our communities so that they can complement rather than compete against each other.

For Manitoba 's rura l commun ities to be sustainable, all levels of Government, regional development corporation and chambers of commerce must work co-operatively in pursuing such a system and in seeking out industries that can take advantage of spin-off opportunities. Communities with a diversified economy are in a much better position to provide the services that their members require for a healthy, enriched life. Family incomes across the country face a great deal of pressure in the form of direct and indirect personal income taxes.

This affects consumer spending power and sources of financial support for small business, which accounts for a large share of employment opportunities. We must reduce the burden of taxes if our economy is to be a vibrant one. This is my goal and the goal of this Government. We cannot solve our environmental problems unless we have economic growth. At the same time, we recognize that continued economic development will not be sustainable unless we

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 84 protect our environment. Manitoba has what the rest of the world wants, a healthy environment. Sustainable development requires that we protect it. Community organizations are taking their own initiatives and harnessing the public's willingness and desire to recycle, re-use and reduce our wastes and to clean up our rivers. This is particularly true of my constituency of Seine River.

Our role as Government will be to facilitate these community-based efforts by providing support and augmenting the highly appreciated voluntary efforts of the citizens of Manitoba as we work together to preserve our heritage. As a mother and a proud grandmother, I am particularly aware of the importance of equipping our children with skills and knowledge linked to the new economic realities. Over the long term, our hope for achieving sustainable economic growth lies in the education of our young people, because they will be managing the industries and farms of tomorrow.

Our education system can bring skills and needs together. As a former educator and current representative of a constituency comprised primarily of young families, I will work to achieve this goal. People are our greatest resource in Manitoba. We cannot have a healthy economy unless we have healthy people. We must establish a more efficient, more humane health care delivery system including appropriate care for seniors. The challenge is to find effective and efficient mechanisms and structures to reach this goal.

The continuing increase in mothers working outside the home has created a growing demand for a variety of forms of child care services. This is particularly true in my constituency . Working with families, community associations and businesses, we will address this concern not as an isolated issue but as an integral part of the overall strategy for social and economic development at the local and regional level. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) On the national stage, this Government will continue to further the interest of all Manitobans.

We need a strong federal Government, because we cherish our inheritance as Canadians. Manitoba's process of consultation is unique in Canada, and I am committed to the frank and open discussions which this Government has established in the process of nation building. Early Friday morning, as I travelled to the Legislature, I heard a very interesting CJOB morning comment regarding the throne speech from none other than the infamous Peter Warren. I never thought I would see the day when I would quote Peter Warren.

However, I do want to share his comments with you, and I quote: For a Premier with his first majority Government, that was a pretty lame Speech from the Throne yesterday afternoon-it gets better-hold the line on taxes and services, do not expect much more because we simply have not got the money to pay for any extras. True to form, the speech has come under attack from the opposition NDP Leader, Gary Doer, and the lowly Liberals. If that is the kind of Government we are going to -(interjection)- I am quoting Peter Warren.

If that is the kind of Government we are going to get for the next few years in this province, straightforward, realistic and honest, well, that is just fine with me, Mr. Filmon, carry on. Well, Mr. Premier, that is just fine with me, too. I look forward with anticipation, as do all Manitobans, to the continued common sense management, positive direction, and sound fiscal responsibility that our Government has demonstrated over the last two years. The people of Seine River and the people of Manitoba as a whole are worthy of the best Government that we in this Assembly can provide.

This is the challenge which I accept and look forward to working toward. Thank you. Mr. George Hlckes (Point Douglas): I would like to begin by congratulating you on your election as Speaker. I am new to this House, but my colleagues inform me that I may expect your guidance and assistance as I come to grips with parliamentary traditions. I am also informed, Mr. Speaker, that you have established a reputation for firmness and fairness. I hope that I may add to the dignity of this House. Also, I would like to pass on congratulations to the new Members, and I know how you feel, also being a new Member.

I am looking forward to working closely with you and with I guess the veterans and learning a lot of new and exciting things and challenges that we have in store for us. At this time I would like to take a few moments and thank the people in the constituency of Point

85 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 Douglas, who worked very hard, and to all the workers and volunteers that helped in my campaign and that were out there many long hours putting up signs, knocking on doors. Even one of our volunteers had been bit by a dog. She is a determined and a fierce fighter like our other ladies in the caucus here so she was right back out there again. She did not stop for a minute. The philosophical differences between my Party and that of the other two Parties are often deep. However, Mr.

Speaker, I hope that those differences can be debated in a manner that is fair minded as it is vigorous. In that spirit I would like to convey my appreciation to the Member for Morris (Mr. Manness) as well as the Member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs), whom I met in debates during the election campaign. Both Members were firm in their beliefs, but gracious and generous in their treatment of a political rookie. I would convey my thanks . •

(2100) For a number of reasons I am both honoured and humbled to stand in this Legislature as a representative of the constituency of Point Douglas. Point Douglas is a new constituency made up in part of the old constituencies of St. Johns and Logan. I recognize the challenge of representing my constituents, as well as my colleague, the Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis), and the former Member for Logan, Maureen Hemphill, who I believe knew every constituent and family member by name and was a welcome guest in every home in the constituency.

I am sure that every Member will join me in wishing Maureen Hemphill every success in whatever new career she might pursue. Mr. Speaker, Point Douglas is a new constituency with an old and proud tradition. It lies in the centre core of Winnipeg and experiences all the problems faced by inner city areas. Housing is poor, unemployment is unacceptably high, drug and alcohol abuse problems are manifested on the streets, and opportunities for Point Douglas residents to gain skills and education are lacking.

Amidst these problems the people of Point Douglas remain determined to improve their standard of living and to provide a better future for their children. Amidst poverty, one can find houses and streets proudly preserved. Arn idst the constant rn igration of people through the constituency, one can find neighbourhoods and communities where people have made a commitment to build their lives and improve and enhance the community facilities. As Point Douglas is a mosaic of different cultures and ethnic groups-in Point Douglas there are many, many ethnic groups.

There are Chinese; there are Ukrainians; there are Filipinos. Yesterday, I was fortunate enough to be at a Filipino 13th anniversary celebration. It took all of maybe 15 minutes, and I felt totally comfortable and at home. That is the kind of people we have in Point Douglas. I am extremely proud to be representing the people of Point Douglas . I spoke earlier about the differences that distinguish my Party from the others.

I listened tentatively to the Speech from the Throne, and wished to understand and want my constituents to understand the policies of this Government and the philosophy that these policies are based upon. I understand that the Government wishes to free the private sector so that it can provide wealth. My question, Mr. Speaker, is: wealth for whom? If I understand the philosophy correctly, the private sector is to create wealth which will rain down upon the population of Manitoba. Well, Mr.

Speaker, having spent a fair portion of my life earning a living from the land, as a matter of survival having to know about the weather, it is my observation that rain rarely falls all over the province at the same time. It seems to me that the Conservative Government is forecasting a steady downpour of wealth over Tuxedo and River Heights, while a permanent umbrella sits over Point Douglas. Mr. Speaker, I do wish to be clear that I am all in favour of the creation of wealth. The public demands it.

However, I see no reason why the wealth that is created should not be invested in Point Douglas and other inner city areas. I do not think it is irresponsible, either in economic or in social terms, to state as a priority that wealth should be invested in affordable housing rather than in one more suburban strip mall. I do not think it is irresponsible to ensure investors a fair rate of return for building infill housing rather than contributing to suburban sprawl. The benefits that arise from creating a wealthy, vibrant community are obvious to all.

The cost of neglect are equally obvious, and they are horrendous both in social and economic terms. Mr. Speaker, I am not against free enterprise, the private sector or the creation of wealth. What worries me is the ideological position on the part of the Government that says free the private sector. Such views are behind the times. More and more we must

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 86 overcome traditional and harmful decisions and work together. Indeed, the many problems we face and the challenges we will encounter will only be resolved by the private sector, labour and Government working together. Such an approach requires imagination and leadership and commitment, qualities that I know will be shown by the next Government in Manitoba, which will be an NOP Government. Mr.

Speaker, I am particularly proud to stand in this House as one of four aboriginal Members, and I believe the first ever in lnuk. (lnuktltuk was spoken) (Translatlon) Now I will speak in lnuktituk, which is my first language. I believe this is the first time lnuktituk has been spoken in this House. I would like to thank my parents for the values and hard work ethics that they have shown me. Now I hope I can bring these same values into the Legislature. (English) Mr. Speaker, the last few months have seen a significant change in the perceptions of the legitimate ambitions of aboriginal people.

My colleague, the Member for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper), has deservedly won the respect of all Canadians with the likely exception of the Prime Minister. Events at Oka have shocked all Canadians, just like they have shocked you and me. I have never ever in my life seen such shameful action, where elde rs and children were being stoned by supposedly intelligent people. In my culture and in the Native culture, we have tremendous respect for our elders, which you call the seniors. They are the ones that give us the teaching, they show us, and they have a lot of patience.

When I saw the elders being stoned, I could not believe it, I almost went and turned the TV off. It was so shameful, and we always believe that our children are the ones that will be the up and coming leaders in our society. We have always believed that. Our children are our future and our elders are our teachers. I hope I never ever see a sight like that again as long as I live. Like it was shameful. I do not think anybody could say that they were proud to be a Canadian. •

(2110) Incidentally, Mr. Speaker, will someone explain to me why the federal Government is prepared to call out the army against the Mohawks, yet it is not prepared to send a company of soldiers to prevent construction of the Rafferty-Alameda dam, which is destroying our environment, our water. What were the Mohawks destroying that warranted sending the army that the Rafferty-Alameda does not warrant? It is even worse, yet we do not see the army going in there. In the midst of these troubles, Mr. Speaker, two significant events took place in Manitoba.

One was at Peace Village as a symbol of peaceful, responsible and a dignified protest that was led by Manitoba Chiefs and by Phil Fontaine. The people that participated were not only aboriginal, there were all different cultures there. There was non-aboriginal, and they conducted themselves in such a fine fashion that even the security in this legislative building would have to commend them on that behavour. I think under crisis situations, we could use that as an example for ourselves. The other significant event, Mr.

Speaker, was the provincial election and more important than the election of four aboriginal Members was the participation of aboriginal people in the democratic process in unprecedented numbers. I would urge all Honourable Members to take note of this. Aboriginal people in this province have historic and legitimate grievances, grievances acknowledged by all Honourable Members. Aboriginal people have legitimate ambitions such as land claims and self-government, ambitions that I believe are seriously acknowledged by all Honourable Members.

Again, I believe all fair-minded people would understand if aboriginal people were cynical of the past and pessimistic about the future. In fact, Mr. Speaker, in unprecedented numbers, aboriginal people in Manitoba have made a commitment to the democratic process, a commitment to negotiate, a commitment to trust yet again the words of Government. I urge all Honourable Members and particularly Members of the Government to recognize and respond to that commitment. In this context, Mr. Speaker, I wish to raise a particular issue upon which the Government, if it so chooses, can demonstrate its responsiveness.

I refer to the issue of maintaining the funding of the ACCESS program and new careers-I believe better than anyone, recognize the value of these programs. I am a graduate, a proud graduate of the new careers program, and I subsequently worked

87 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 on the staff of the New Careers program. I have seen first-hand the benefit it had to the participants, to the families of the individuals who come under these programs. When you look at training in adult education, when one individual spends much time studying, working hard and successfully graduates out of those programs, 85 percent of the time it leads to meaningful employment. Those emp loyme nt opportunities are passed on to the graduate's children, which in reality gets passed on to their children.

So when you hear someone mention that it is too costly for education, that is not true. It is costly to not educate people. It is an investment; it is not a cost. In a few short years time, that individual has already paid back the cost of their education through the taxes many, many fold, and when you break the cycle of poverty, you are also breaking the next generation's cycle which in normal times follow one after the other. I cannot stress further education for individuals more than I am stating now, because it is very, very important and we must continue fighting it.

For over 20 years now, these programs have made a major commitment to the development of skills among the aboriginal population. There have been aboriginal doctors, carpenters, lawyers, mechanics, teachers, social workers. I could go on and on; there are many areas. They have proudly assumed positions in society that have allowed them to move from dependence to independence. These graduates, their skills and experience, are vital to the cause of aboriginal self-government.

We hear that word almost daily now, and if we really believe and truthfully want to help aboriginal people, then we must address self-government. In order to achieve self-government, you must have education. Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to raise the funding of these programs as a partisan issue. Every Government for the last 20 years has supported these programs. To give praise where it is due, the program at the University of Manitoba, which produced the first aboriginal doctor, was begun under the Lyon Government.

Also, I recognize and acknowledge that the notice to terminate these programs does not stem from cuts made by the provincial Government, which has maintained its level of funding, but because of cuts from the federal Government caused by the expiration of the Northern Development Agreement. This Government has to get to the negotiating tables to get a new Northern Development Agreement signed so we will not lose our people that are in education and training programs and disrupt the continuity of these programs.

Once you lose those qualified professors, the instructors, all the way down the line, it will be so difficult to get them back because other provinces and other places are just waiting for those kinds of educators that are caring, that are committed to the people, and understand and care about aboriginal people. If we lose them for any short period of time, I am sure, because we have a caring Government in Ontario that is where you will find a lot of them. However, all that having been said, what separates the continuation of those programs and their termination? It is, I believe, $2 million annually.

The Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey) has attended the graduations of these programs. He has seen the pride and accomplishment of the graduates and their communities. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister and his colleagues not see that to justifiably blame the federal Government in reasonable, rational-is entirely insufficient. Over and over again aboriginal people have heard that familiar lament from both levels of Government. We will help only if the other guy kicks in their share.

I think it is time where people started looking at maybe more than their share, if it is to preserve programs that deal with the real issues. Such a policy in 1990 is just not good enough. Aboriginal people are determined to take their full place in society. Everyone gains if the aboriginal work force is skilled and educated. In a wider context, aboriginal people are looking for new signals from Government, greater understanding and greater sensitivity. Mr. Speaker, I urge this Government to reconsider its position on these programs.

I urge this Government to look at alternative solutions, to provide leadership and co-ordination among the aboriginal people and the business sector, to examine ways in which business may assist in aboriginal human resources. I am sure that in Manitoba, aboriginal people wish to work constructively with the provincial

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 88 Governments and labour. That relationship will depend upon good faith. *

(2120) An opportunity exists for this Government to demonstrate its good faith and its commitment to aboriginal education. Education and opportunities to work and exist co-operatively with aboriginal people are here now. We do not need to wait another 100 years to start being treated fairly, with dignity and in a justifiable fashion. The time is now. Mr. Speaker, in conclusion I would like to mention again the constituency of Point Douglas. We have many seniors in the constituency of Point Douglas, and the Minister res ponsible for Seniors (Mr.

Downey) hopefully will look at positive programs for our seniors, because they are our parents, our grandparents and there have been cutbacks in programs, but take a serious look and think of your parents and your grandparents when you are doing the cutting. They have worked extremely hard, they have developed this country. When I say seniors, I am also including our elders. They have worked extremely hard, and they have built this country for us.

Now we can show some of that back by treating them with dignity, and we have the opportunity, in different cases, to look after the seniors that have not been able to have reasonable pensions. I think it is our turn. They have done enough for us. If we have to cut in areas, we have to cut, but let us look after our seniors. Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker: As was previously agreed, I would like to remind the Honourable Member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) to provide Hansard with a translation of the few remarks that he made in his mother tongue. Thank you. Hon. Jack Penner {Minister of Rural Development): Mr.

Speaker, it is certainly good to be back in the Legislature for my second term. I suppose when one enjoys doing what one is doing, the time that passes seems very short, and so it has been with the last two and a half years that I have been fortunate enough to be able to spend, as with my colleagues and all of those who are elected people in this Legislature representing the people of Manitoba. I want to congratulate you, Mr.

Speaker, on your appointment to the most prestigious office in this place and want to commend you for the way you have during a very difficult period of time, during a minority situation, the way you have dealt with issues in this Legislature and the way you have handled the debates and controlled the emotions that very often run very high in this place. I also want to welcome the new Pages who are here for the first time. Hopefully, they will enjoy their stay and probably learn almost as much as I have learned in the two and a half years that I have been fortunate enough to be here.

I also want to say to all of those who are new Members here that if you in fact do enjoy yourself as much as I have, it will be one of the most gratifying experiences of your life. Also, to my colleagues, I look forward to the next four years in being able to provide the kind of Government that all our constituents wish for the future development of this province. I want to also at this time thank the constituents of the constituency of Emerson for having shown their confidence in me.

Everybody knows that during redistribution my former riding, the riding of Rhineland, disappeared and that the part of the constituency of Rhineland in fact became the part of the constituency of Emerson. Though most of my riding is a new area to me, and constituting a fairly large portion of the southern part of Manitoba, I look forward to serving those constituencies in the capacity of the Member of the Legislature.

The constituency of Emerson, as most people know, is probably one of the most diversified areas of the province, taking in communities such as Plum Coulee on the west side to Sprague and Sandilands and Middlebro on the east side of the riding, and the Ontario border being the easternmost part of the riding right into the Lake of the Woods, and then St. Malo on the north side of the riding, and the U.S. boundary on the south side of our riding. (Mrs.

Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair) Many of the communities in our riding are significantly diversified, communities such as Altona, which boasts a fairly large manufacturing sector, taking in such industries as Friesen Implements and Loewen Industries, manufacturing agricultural machinery and parts for that industry, industries such as Co-op Vegetable Oils or CSP Foods Ltd., taking a raw agriculture product and manufacturing it to the point of producing one of the finest edible oils. This country has the opportunity of selling it to the export market. The fourth industry which is situated in my

89 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 constituency, again, employing some 450 odd people in the town of Altona, is an industry that probably should not be there, but it is because of the diversity of the people in that constituency and because of the nature of those people and their innovativeness and inventiveness that D.W. Friesen's, one of the largest printing firms in this country, is situated in a smaller rural centre, employing some, as I said before, 450 people in that town.

So are many of the other smaller communities in that constituency contributing substantially to the economy of this province. I certainly look forward to serving the needs of this constituency in the capacity of the elected Member. Needs such as, industries such as agriculture, including the livestock industry, the cattle industry, poultry industry, dairy and hogs, industries such as meat packing and processing industries that are located there, and many others. I think it is time that Manitobans realize that there is no free lunch, and to build a strong Manitoba, we will need the efforts of all of us.

Under the previous administration, people were continually talking about the high levels of taxation , be it personal income taxes, be it taxes such as payroll, be it farmland taxes. Probably one of the highest levels of taxes in all of Canada were right here in Manitoba. *

(2130) It was our commitment two and a half years ago to the people of Manitoba, many of them located in rural communities, our commitment to lower those tax levels to in fact encourage and enhance the ability of industries to sustain and build in the Province of Manitoba. We did lower persona l income taxes. We did lower the payroll tax. We eliminated the provincial education portion of farmland taxes, and it is our commitment to the people of Manitoba to even further lower the tax burden in this province .

At the same time, we were able to increase our social services such as health care, seniors ' care, child care and education, and everybody in Manitoba knows, especially those people living in rural Manitoba, our commitment and our dedication to maintaining those social programs that many of our communities rely so heavily on. We need to attract industry, we need to encourage employment, and we need to, above all, build a pride in Manitoba that had disappeared under the previous socialist regime that Manitobans were forced to live under for so long.

We need to create strong economic centres all across this province. We need to diversify our economic base, and we need to decentralize our economic activities. We need strong agricultural communities in order to promote and enhance a broad-based economy. The Department of Rural Development was created to do exactly that.

Made up of the former Department of Municipal Affairs, taking into its administration regional development corporations, Water Services Board, provincial and municipal planning and conservation districts, I believe that the department now has the basis to provide the services that are going to be needed in rural Manitoba. Since its establishment, the Department of Rural Development has been actively pursuing a mandate in economic development through the Rural Development Branch.

The main thrust of this unit is to reinforce the dynamic of regional and local economic development organizations to ensure more dynamic action on the part of Government and the departments and agencies for the rural communities , develop and maintain an ongoing dialogue between Government and rural communities, act as a reasoned advocate for the rural communities, and encourage and support regional and local economic initiatives.

Through the activities of the Economic Development unit of my department, we support the popular belief and trend that economic development in rural Manitoba must be driven largely by home-grown businesses, local entrepreneurship , and that there be local and community-base d responsibility and self-determination to develop and carry this through. The key factor in all this is the people who live in rural Manitoba. We see ourselves as helping rural Manitobans help themse lves.

The major premise under which we are functioning is that Government should be there as a facilitator helping communities develop their own capacity and to address issues and concerns affecting the quality of life in rural Manitoba. Let me describe some of the activities that have been undertaken by this unit in the last year and that are ongoing. The first is the Community Strategic Planning, a process that helps a community create a vision for its future and a plan of action to get there. The Economic Development unit of my' department has assisted the communities of

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 90 Grandview, Gladstone and Winnipeg Beach through various phases of planning process. The main phases of the process are: Initiation. This is where the communities decide to take a hard look at themselves and its desire to effect change. The second is Planning. This is where the community, through a number of activities, comes to identify key sectors that need to be addressed to improve the quality of life in the community.

These can range from trying to maintain and expand local businesses to developing local entrepreneurship, to upgrading main street or to develop initiatives for youth, whatever Is seen as the major priority by the community, and a course of action is then drawn up to address these priorities. The third phase is implementation. At this stage, communities have put together the human and financial resources in place to get the job started. The last step, of course, is evaluation. I suppose one should always sit back and evaluate what one has done to see whether one could, in the future, do things better.

Community Development Planning might appear like a simple four-step process; however, to do it righttakes time and commitment. Research in many parts of Canada and the United States has shown that the most successful rural communities were those that established a plan of action and had been working on it for many, many years. Success does not come rapidly. The Economic Development unit of my department was also involved in the community improvement program initiated by Westarc, a small Brandon consulting firm. This program was targeted at four pilot communities.

One of them was Boissevain, one of them was Melita, Russell and Shoal Lake. They basically took them through the first phase of a community-planning exercise. Because of the importance of these communities and putting in community development planning, my department will be expanding its mandate in this field through a vision planning program. This program is the final phase of development and will be available to rural communities in the very near future.

The economic development unit of my department has also been providing support in organizational development, planning and _opportunities identification to a number of community economic development organizations in the province. These include the Piney Economic Development Committee working on initiatives in the Sprague area , the Wawanesa Economic Development Committee and committees in Morden, Melita, Deloraine, Killarney, Roland, Lynn Lake, Gretna and a number of others.

The economic development unit of my department provides technical assistance to businesses in rural Manitoba and does this by working in co-operation with local development organizations, regional development corporations which are funded in part by the department, the community futures and business development centres, and relevant federal or provincial agencies such as the Western Diversification offices and Manitoba Industry Trade and Tourism.

Since most new activity in small towns Is generated by local entrepreneurs, development staff have been assisting communities in developing an entrepreneurial environment which encourages the formation of small diversified locally-owned enterprises. Small and medium-sized business ventures are being encouraged and assisted throughout the province by a well-organized support network, and we are a key component of that network.

In regard to larger initiatives my department has been involved in the Gimli waterfront project, the feasibility of an alfalfa processing plant, the feasibility of accessing natural gas in the Interlake area, Gimli Industrial Park promotions, the Pembina Valley Water Task Force and a great number of other small but important ventures and initiatives across rural Manitoba too numerous to mention. An idea that was brought to me by an individual who had experienced internal growth in community a while back which is now being developed by our Government is the concept of the community development bond.

Community development bonds would be purchased by local people who are willing to invest in their community and would be used by local entrepreneurs who are wanting to expand or establish industries, businesses and/or other projects in the community. *

(2140) The province would be the guarantor of the principal on those bonds to ensure that the money is fully secure. Full details remain to be finalized on the development bonds; however, we hope to have this program up and running fairly soon as we see

91 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 it being a major catalyst in helping diversify and expand the rural economy. I would like to also Indicate that my department is developing and maintaining an effective liaison and working relationship with all Government departments, federal and provincial, to ensure that the resources are effectively and efficiently delivered in rural Manitoba and that Government programs and policies reflect identified needs.

This Is being done through the decentralization of staff to rural regions and building up of capacity of our regional offices as community development resource centres. These centres will act as a first point of contact for rural Manitobans on all matters relating to their community development. As I indicated earlier, my department administers the regional development programs. The ADC grants enable regional development corporations to foster and process economic development in six geographic regions of the province.

They are the Norman region, the Parkland region, the Interlake region, the Central Plains region, the Eastman region and the Pembina Valley region. The effectiveness of the ADC hinges upon the committed municipality, the business membership and a dynamic accountable board of directors, and a professional staff In the field of economic business development. These components are in place in the ADC; however, I believe that there is a need to provide even a greater flexibility to these agencies so that they can best meet the organizational requirements and capacity of the different regions of the province.

I plan to examine our programming with each region in order to determine the best approach that should be taken for regional development in the future. I am also fully aware that the Community Futures Program has been implemented in various parts of the province. In my opinion, the province and the federal Government need to co-operate and co-ordinate their collective resources more closly to ensure that the needs of rural communities are being met and that the volunteers are not being overburdened by the agencies of individual organizations and programs.

These are some of the main areas of development that our department has been involved in over the past year. I believe we have made significant progress in demonstrating to rural Manitoba our Government's commitment to ensuring a balanced economic base for this province. One of the initiatives that we took upon ourselves two years ago as Government was working towards a sustainable economic development initiative. The round table chaired by our Premier of this province has indicated its seriousness in developing initiatives and programs that will ensure sustainability throughout the economic system.

Sustainable development is, of course, made up of three parts as far as I am concerned, and they are economic, social and environment. These three need to be properly combined to ensure that our province's resources, be they human or otherwise, be maintained and are able to pass on what we have so richly enjoyed in our communities for so many years. (Mr.

Speaker in the Chair) One of the other programs that our department has been very involved with in developing and negotiating over the last couple of years is of course the Southern Development Initiative, SDI, which was signed only a week and a half ago by our Premier and the Honourable Charlie Mayer for the federal Government.

This program will bring into being $19 million worth of infrastructural work in this province to ensure that the effluent discharge generated by those industrial centres located and operating in this province will be able to maintain those operations, and in fact expand and provide future jobs for our generations to follow. We want to make sure that the diversification that we have initiated will not only be ongoing, but will in fact be enhanced and increased.

One other and final part of my presentation is, of course, to thank all Members during the last Session of this Legislature for the assistance and the dedication that they showed and persistence that many of the Members showed last year when we introduced assessment reform legislation, one of the largest pieces of legislation to be put before this Assembly during the last 10 years . Many of the Members will not soon forget the amount of time that was spent during committee and other meetings in this building.

Many will not forget the many hours of debate during the committee of this important piece of legislation, a piece of legislation that was on the books in Manitoba for almost 10 years, a piece of legislation that the Honourable Sterling Lyon put in motion by

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 92 appointing the Honourable Walter Weir to head up a task force on assessment reform. A previous administration spent many hours deliberating whether they should or should not in fact introduce legislation of this sort. Manitobans all over this province, municipal leaders all over this province had urged previous administrations as well, had urged us to move forward with this legislation. It gave me a great deal of pleasure, Mr.

Speaker, to be able to shepherd the assessment reform legislation through this House, which has now become law and I believe will, in the long term, be one of the best and the fairest way of making sure that the assessment and values of property indicated for taxation-so that municipalities can in fact apply the mill rates that they need to apply through this piece of legislation in a much more fair and economic manner. I want to thank all Members of the Legislature, my colleagues in Cabinet and also Members in Opposition, for the support that they have shown me, a new Member two and a half years ago.

Being a relative greenhorn in this building, I appreciated very much the camaraderie that goes on here, and yes, the very serious debates that we enter into at times on specifically the more important issues that come before this Legislature for consideration. Again, it has been a great deal of pleasure serving here and I look forward, during the next four years, to serve as well and probably enter Into again some significant debates on other issues that might be before us. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me the privilege. Mr.

Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): May I first start off by congratulating you on your reappointment as .Speaker of this Chamber. In the past couple of ;years, I believe you have done a fantastic job given iall the circumstances that you have been put under. l I would like to take this opportunity to thank my constituents that have seen fit to return me to this building. It means a lot to me; it is indeed a great ,privilege to be able to represent the riding of Inkster. , I have always argued, and will continue to argue, the greatest resource an elected official has is the ,people that it represents.

Through those people you 1have access to unlimited information, expertise at your fingertips if you are able to keep in contact with 1as many of those constituents as is possible. *

(2150) In the election in 1988, I ran under a different boundary, and in 1990, I lost actually two areas that I represented, that being Weston and Brooklands. It was a privilege representing those people who live in Weston and Brooklands. I got to know many good friends and will continue to keep in contact with those individuals on a personal basis, because that is one of the nicest things about being elected, that you do have an opportunity to get out and meet so many different people. You get to create so many different types of friendships, and I really value the ability to be able to do just that.

I would like to welcome the MLAs who have been elected for the first time. I am sure like myself-I will be nervous for this second Session-but that quickly is overcome. I wanted to first mention, when I talk about Progressive Conservatives, is to make it very clear that I am scared, I am worried; I have seen what a Tory majority can do in Ottawa. I am afraid that a Tory majority in Ottawa will no doubt have a major influence on a Tory majority in Manitoba, because a Tory is a Tory is a Tory. We have seen that. What I would like to refer to is of course a letter that was sent out by the Tory minority Government.

The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) knows which letter I am referring to. Because the Tories were in a minority situation just very recently, they had to somewhat restrain themselves from what they would like to do-restrain. -(interjection)- The Minister of Health says there was a hidden meaning. He is quite right. There was a hidden meaning in there. Mr. Speaker, now they have been given what they have been seeking, a majority. I am not one to question what the electorate has decided and will live with the consequences. I would like to quote this letter that was circulated February 7, 1990.

It reads, without a clear majority the next and more difficult phase of the PC program to restore a much needed pro-business environment in Manitoba cannot be effectively implemented. Mr. Speaker, I think that says it all. Now they have a Tory majority. Now we are going to see phase two, the real Tory agenda. That is why I say, when a Tory is a Tory, a Tory is a Tory whether it is a federal majority or it is a provincial majority. We are starting to see that already in the provincial throne speech that they have brought forward. -(interjection)- The Minister of Health and other Members should be

93 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 15, 1990 wounded by a letter of that nature, admitting in such a strong fashion that they are in the pockets of big corporations and big businesses in the Province of Manitoba. They should be somewhat shameful. Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives have promised a depressed economy and Manitobans got a depressed economy. They promised to revitalize the economy. The bankruptcies have increased like never before, over 42 percent. Youth unemployment is increasing. We have the slowest retail growth in Canada. We are below the average wage.

Housing starts have plummeted since this administration . Twelve thousand manufacturing jobs have been lost under this Conservative administration. They talk about more jobs that have been created. We have to ask the question, what type of jobs have been created since we have been losing these manufacturing jobs? These are service oriented jobs, low end paying jobs. The net population loss of Manitoba in '88-89 was some 17,000. We have more people who are leaving this province than are coming to this province. That is a scary situation.

It does not say very much for Manitoba's future unless this Government and somewhat, I must say, I doubt is able to turn around the current situation that we are in. We had military base closures which took $137 million out of the economy, over 1300 jobs. That is not revitalizing the economy. This is what this Conservative Government has promised to do. They promised good management. The Premier increased his staff salaries from nine to 24 percent under a minority Government. That is not good management.

No multiyear budgeting as they had promised -(interjection)- Well, the Minister of Finance will argue to some degree that he has multiyear budgeting, but I would really question that, and I am sure he could not stand up in his place and say with all sincerity that he has multiple-year budgeting. They have failed to expend monies that have been allocated out through the Estimates process. That is the way that they have been able to create different types of funds and cutbacks and achieve it on the backs of those who can least afford it. Mr.

Speaker, we have waited and we are still waiting-90 home care beds have been closed down or have not been opened up. One has to ask the question, why is it that this Government is so hesitant to open up or free up these beds? It seems to me that it would be better management if they would move in that type of direction. We have had- (interjection)- The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) speaks again from his chair, or should we say, as Senator Nurgitz would say, old, is it yeller?-heart surgery delays, delays of up to a year under this administration .

We have had two-year wait for speech therapy, a shortage of extended care beds, at the same time we have of course the 90 beds that still have not been opened. The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) has not spent $66 million in the health care budget of the last Session. This is not restoring our health care system. Emergency room closures we have witnessed under this administration, shortage of rural doctors and nurses and when we come up with good initiatives that the Minister of Health and his Government of the Day should be taking note of, it is looked down upon.

They are viable initiatives, initiatives that would work if the Government would get off its pedestal and look at some of the initiatives. When we go into the legislative agenda we will be more than happy to point out where we can see a lot of improvements. Confrontation with the health care professionals, Mr. Speaker, the legacy of the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) is much to be desired.

The only Minister that I am aware of, and granted I have not been around that long, that deals with professions in the same nature that the Minister of Health does, calling the people, who you are supposed to be negotiating with in supposedly good faith, liars. That is not the way that you negotiate. Then we have the environment, supported this Government in the past, and currently I must argue, is supporting the construction of the Rafferty and Alameda dams without any environmental impact studies. It is a very serious issue.

We find that this Government is quite content on standing on the sidelines while Saskatchewan and their Tory friends in Saskatchewan ram through in violation of who knows what in order to get the Rafferty dam project off the ground. Mr. Speaker, they sold one-fifth of Manitoba's forests to Repap Enterprise before any type of impact study was done. They have failed to ensure that proper storage of PCBs have been taken of. The Tories have promised open and honest Government. If hypocrisy was an unparliamentary-

October 15, 1990 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 94 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. The hour being 10 p.m., when this matter is again before the House, the Honourable Member will have 30 minutes remaining. This House is now adjourned and stands adjourned until 1 :30 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).

Throne Speech Debate Leglslatlve Assembly of Manitoba Monday, October 15, 1990 CONTENTS Ashton; Dacquay; Hickes; Penner; Lamoureux 75-94

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	35-1-3b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	35th 1st hansardpdf 3b.pdf
Language	en
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