British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, April 1, 2003 (37th Parliament, 4th Session) (H0401pm-11) (H0401pm 11)

H0401pm-11

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, April 1, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Volume 13, Number 11 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon.

Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon.

George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon.

Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon. Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management and Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries ..................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon.

Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk................................................................................................ ............................................ Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca/hansard In addition to printed transcripts, Hansard Services publishes transcripts on the Internet and broadcasts Chamber debates on television.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) .......................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L)..................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon.

Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)....................................................................... Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................ Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ...................................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, John (L).........................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon.

Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)........................................................................... Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn................................................................John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Tuesday, April 1, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 5857 Introduction and First Reading of Bills ........................................................................................ ......................................... 5857 Provincial Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 30) Hon. B.

Barisoff Statements (Standing Order 25B).............................................................................................................................. .............. 5857 Fort Steele heritage town W. McMahon School uniforms R. Nijjar Oral health J. Weisbeck Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 5858 Arrowhead mental health centre J. MacPhail Hon. G. Cheema World Water Forum in Japan M. Hunter Hon. J.

Murray Government action on severe acute respiratory syndrome R. Stewart Hon. S. Hawkins Correctional facility closings B. Locke Hon. R. Coleman Youth speeding prevention T. Bhullar Hon. R. Coleman Workers Compensation Board appeals backlog B. Lekstrom Hon. G.

Bruce Tabling Documents .............................................................................................................. .................................................... 5861 Office of the information and privacy commissioner of British Columbia, service plan, 2003-06 Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 5862 Police Amendment Act, 2003 (Bill 12) (continued) P. Sahota P. Wong A. Hamilton R. Stewart G. Trumper V. Roddick Hon. R.

Coleman Safety Standards Act (Bill 19) Hon. G. Abbott J. MacPhail Safety Authority Act (Bill 20) Hon. G. Abbott

Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................ ................................................... 5871 Estimates: Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services (continued) J. MacPhail Hon. L. Stephens Hon. T. Nebbeling Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply ............................................................................................................ ................................................... 5885 Estimates: Ministry of Competition, Science and Enterprise Hon. R. Thorpe Hon. K.

Falcon R. Harris R. Hawes H. Bloy B. Locke S. Brice V. Roddick K. Johnston Estimates: Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection Hon. J. Murray R. Masi K. Stewart

5857 TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 The House met at 2:04 p.m. Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: I w a n t t o w e l c o m e s o m e o n e back to the Legislature after a bit of an absence. She worked for a couple of my predecessors, a gentleman by the name of Bill Ritchie, who served as a minister in a previous government, and my immediate prede- cessor, Peter Dueck. Christine Wiebe served as con- stituent assistant and ministerial assistant with dis- tinction for 15 years, and I hope members will make her welcome today. [1405] With her today….

I don't think it is an exaggera- tion to describe Eugene Reimer as Abbotsford's greatest athlete — he is a gold medallist — with, as the Finance minister points out, perhaps one excep- tion, but modesty precludes me from…. Mr. Reimer is a gold medallist in the Olympics and most re- cently chaired the British Columbia Disability Games that were hosted magnificently by Abbots- ford and by the team that he assembled. It's a pleas- ure to see him here as well. Please make him wel- come. H. Long: It really gives me great excitement to rise today in the House and announce the birth of my newest granddaughter.

Yesterday afternoon at 2:30 p.m. my daughter-in-law Kim, her husband, my son Craig and their two children, McKenna and Kyle, were blessed with an addition to their family. In Powell River, weighing in at 7 pounds 13½ ounces, my newest granddaughter, Sawyer Grace Long, my thirteenth grandchild — and more to come. I'd like to share with this House and ask them to join me in welcoming my newest granddaughter into this world and into this province. Thank you very much. Hon. G.

Bruce: I'd like to congratulate my col- l e a g u e f r o m P o w e l l R i v e r o n t h e S u n s h i n e C o a s t o n the birth of his new grandchild. That's wonderful news for you, I'm certain, and for everybody in Pow- ell River. I also would like to make a couple of intro- ductions, but it's not about the birth of any children of mine at this moment. I have a couple of people in the gallery today that do just an absolutely stellar job in the communica- tions shop for the Ministry of Skills Development and Labour. They don't have a lot to work with. Robin Rohrmoser and Christine Ash.

Would the House please make them welcome. A. Hamilton: Joining us in the House are 28 grade 5 students from View Royal Elementary School ac- companied by their parents and teachers, Ms. Ethel- wyn Smith, an assistant teacher, and Ms. Margie Stewart. Would the House please join me in welcom- ing them. Introduction and First Reading of Bills PROVINCIAL REVENUE STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 Hon. B. Barisoff presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Pro- vincial Revenue Statutes Amendment Act, 2003. Hon. B. Barisoff: I move that Bill 30 be read a first time now. Motion approved.

Hon. B. Barisoff: Bill 30 proposes a number of amendments to the taxation revenue statutes adminis- tered by the Ministry of Provincial Revenue. These amendments are made to ensure fairness and equity for taxpayers and to provide efficiencies in tax and revenue collection processes. In several cases, the changes are designed to clarify duties and responsibili- ties under each act and simply to bring tax treatment in line with federal policies.

This bill will amend the following statutes: Corpo- ration Capital Tax Act, Income Tax Act, Land Tax De- ferment Act, Mineral Tax Act, Motor Fuel Tax Act, School Act, Hotel Room Tax Act, Social Service Tax Act, Tobacco Tax Act, Petroleum and Natural Gas Tax Act and Logging Tax Act. I will elaborate on the nature of these amendments during second reading of this bill.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. [1410] Bill 30 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) FORT STEELE HERITAGE TOWN W. McMahon: I am one of the first to agree that cultural tourism is one of the great untapped areas of tourism for those who are happy to travel to destina- tions to learn about culture and history as opposed to viewing scenery or taking in sporting events. I have cultural tourism in my riding. As the East Kootenay Historical Society will tell you, Fort Steele is a gem in the province's crown, inter- nationally recognized and broadly supported by the communities it serves. It showcases our local heritage, and it has a long and proud history.

5858 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 It is named in honour of Sam Steele, superintendent of the North W est Mounted P olice. He was he ad of D division, which arrived in 1887 at what was then named Kootenay Post. He help solve the Kootenay crisis, which was a very serious disagreement between the white settlers and the local Ktunaxa people over land ownership of Joseph's Prairie, a Ktunaxa gather- ing place and the site of present-day Cranbrook.

The dispute saw nervous settlers petition both the federal and provincial governments for protection, and thus the presence of the North West Mounted Police. He stayed for a little more than a year, and today this historical site bears his name. At one time, 2,000 people lived at Fort Steele, and a number of businesses prospered. Much of the fort's history is linked to the development of the province's railway system. Needless to say, Cranbrook became the centre, and by 1910 Fort Steele was becoming a ghost town.

Today you can board the steam train and be trans- ported back in time to an era when the bellow and rush of escaping steam, the clang of the rails and the call of the whistle take you to places you will remember for- ever. Treat yourself to the experience, a depiction of a real community on the original site at its prime, 1895 to 1905. Visit the shops, the eating establishments and the working displays. Pan for gold at the Wildhorse Creek historic site.

Enter an era when time moved more lei- surely, when life appeared simpler and when the deco- rative arts were present in everything from the cast iron range to the blacksmith toiling under the heat of his labour. Today I extend an invitation to you to visit Fort Steele, to enjoy the planned street dramas that happen around town, bringing the culture of the town to life right before your very eyes. Remember, whether it's ecotourism, sport tourism or cultural tourism, the op- portunities are endless in the Kootenays. SCHOOL UNIFORMS R.

Nijjar: Today I rise to raise a discussion that I believe is of great importance. I have thoroughly stud- ied the concept of school uniforms, and I have con- cluded there is so much value in implementing uni- forms or a dress code in our public school system that it warrants, at the least, a full discussion in our com- munities. In the United States school uniforms are becoming popular, and 17 different states permit individual schools or districts to adopt school uniform policies or dress codes. And why have they implemented uni- forms or dress codes?

It's because uniforms make schools safer, increase school attendance, increase grades, reduce tardiness, reduce violent acts, reduce verbal abuse, reduce vandalism, reduce sources of con- flict, help identify trespassers, erase cultural and eco- nomic differences, and increase school pride. And the lower cost of uniforms saves parents money.

I n L o n g B e a c h s c h o o l d i s t r i c t , i n t h e f i r s t y e a r o f implementation, overall school crime decreased by 36 p e r c e n t , s e x o f f e n c e s b y 7 4 p e r c e n t , f i g h t s b y 5 1 p e r - cent, weapons offences by 50 percent, school suspen- sions by 32 percent and vandalism by 18 percent. In Norfolk, Virginia, they found absence down 47 percent, throwing objects down 68 percent and fighting down 38 percent. Schools in Chicago, Florida, Georgia, Lou- isiana, Maryland, New York and Seattle have all made similar claims.

These achievements follow the stated goals of the Ministry of Education's three-year service plan and the safe schools task force, which is to improve student outcomes and create a safe learning environment. I have spoken with many, many people throughout British Columbia who support this. I would prefer the full implementation of school uniforms in legislation from this House. But if this cannot happen, then I plan to work with the Minister of Education to create clear regulations or a framework for parents to be able to bring about uniforms in their neighbourhoods. ORAL HEALTH J.

Weisbeck: Today is a very, very special day. Not only is it the beginning of Oral Health Month, but the tooth fairy arrived in the building this morning. I'm sure the Finance minister would love to have seen a couple of billion dollars underneath his pillow, but the tooth fairy did deliver dental kits to all the members. If anyone needs any help in brushing and flossing, I'm sure I could give you a hand in that department. [1415] My thanks to the Association of Dental Surgeons of British Columbia for supplying the kits and having the tooth fairy deliver them.

The association is responsible for promoting and supporting the interests of its 2,800 members. This year for Oral Health Month the associa- tion is launching the first-ever provincewide dental outreach program, called Community Dental Day, on Tuesday, April 29, 2003. More than 155 volunteer den- tists around the province will be treating underprivi- l e g e d a d u l t s i n n e e d o f u r g e n t d e n t a l c a r e , f r e e o f charge. This program is available to low-income work- ing adults who do not have a basic dental plan.

It is estimated that the program will offer dental relief to more than 750 adult patients provincewide. Urgent treatment will include services such as fillings and ex- tractions. To identify low-income adult patients requir- ing dental treatment, the association is working in con- junction with the Salvation Army and public health in nearly 40 communities throughout the province. Our thanks and congratulations to the dentists of B.C. for the professional services they provide in main- taining the health of all British Columbians. Oral Questions ARROWHEAD MENTAL HEALTH CENTRE J.

MacPhail: Just a note to the good member: I have an overactive gag reflex that I may need help with later on.

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5859 Mr. Speaker, it's April Fool's Day, and as Yogi Berra said, it's déjà vu all over again. I was asking these very same questions a year ago. The Minister of State for Mental Health is on record saying he won't tolerate cuts to the mental health services, and that's cold com- fort to the mental health patients on the Sunshine Coast who have seen their services cut to the bone. When I raised this last year at this same time, the Minister of State for Mental Health denied that that was going to happen.

Can the Minister of State for Mental Health explain to the patients in Sechelt why the Arrowhead drop-in centre for mental health patients will be forced to close its doors in a few weeks? Hon. G. Cheema: Over the last 21 months we have m a d e t r e m e n d o u s p r o g r e s s i n m e n t a l h e a l t h i n t h i s province. Issues of mental health have been raised across the government in the ministries and health authorities and in the business community. We are bringing patients home. We are replacing outdated facilities with modern, homelike facilities across the province. We are building…. Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. G. Cheema: We are challenging the status quo, and we are ensuring that mental health achieves equal status in health care in this province. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplementary question. J. MacPhail: I f t h i s M i n i s t e r o f S t a t e f o r M e n t a l Health gives that same answer again, he should actu- ally have to resign from his job. It is pathetic what his answers are and how little he understands how he's abandoning people with mental illnesses. The B.C. Schizophrenia Society… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. J.

MacPhail: …is imploring… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. Let us hear the question. J. MacPhail: …the minister to stop this cut and keep the Arrowhead centre open. They say centres like this one are critical to servicing mental health patients and should be considered part of the core services funded by mental health. I've been there. They're right about that. Before this minister eliminated its budget, the Ar- rowhead centre in Sechelt provided meals and activi- ties. It operated an extensive volunteer program and employed an advocate.

Now those vital programs are gone, and the centre's doors are about to close. Will the Minister of State for Mental Health live up to the promise he made directly to the patients in Sechelt and order the health authority to restore this centre's small grant and the vital services it provides? Hon. G. Cheema: The only party who betrayed mental health was the NDP. We made a promise dur- ing the campaign to fully fund and implement the mental health plan. We have done that. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. [1420] Hon. G.

Cheema: We are ensuring that the best practices in mental health are made available to health authorities, service providers, clinicians, families and consumers. We have merged mental health and addic- tion to better serve our patients. We are implementing provincial depression strategy and depression-anxiety disorder strategy, the two most prevalent diseases which were ignored by the NDP. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Let us hear the answer as well as the question. Please continue. Hon. G.

Cheema: We are implementing Canada's first comprehensive provincial youth and child mental health plan. We are working closely with all the stake- holder organizations in this province. And finally, we are keeping politics out of the health care system. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a fur- ther supplementary. J. MacPhail: You know, it is almost embarrassing to ask these questions when this minister is the Minister of State for Mental Health. Arrowhead drop-in centre, Sechelt…. Thank God someone is standing up to ask these questions. This minister is closing….

He stands up and gives a little message box that he can't even do without read- ing it. Given that the minister's sole responsibility is to mental health patients… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order. J. MacPhail: …it's astonishing that he can't even give the people of Arrowhead a straight answer. They've tried talking to their local MLA; they haven't been able to get a meeting. They've tried lobbying the minister, but they've had dead silence. Now they are desperate. It's not like these patients can go somewhere

5860 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 else. For mental health patients throughout the interior and the coast, these services are the only lifeline. The Attorney General likes to talk about a court for people with mental illness. The Minister of State for Mental Health is cutting the services. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. Order. J. MacPhail: Can the minister explain to them why mental health patients who live in the interior and on the coast don't count in his government's bogus heart- lands strategy? Hon. G. Cheema: The only embarrassment for mental health is the NDP.

This member, when she was the Minister of Health, made the promise to fully fund and implement the mental health plan. That plan was never approved by the Treasury Board. We made the promise to implement the mental health plan, and we have done that. We are spending an additional $138 million to bring patients home. We are building homelike facilities across the province. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. G. Cheema: We are providing compassionate care which is based on evidence-based practices. We are the only province in the whole country where there is one minister responsible for mental health.

We are the only province in the whole country where we are building capacity. We are not only deinstitutionalizing, but we are bringing patients home. We are building capacities. We are providing compassionate care. The NDP was the betrayer of the mental health system in this province. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. WORLD WATER FORUM IN JAPAN M. Hunter: Water quality is an issue of great con- cern to people around this province.

I understand the Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection recently returned from a trip to Japan where she represented Canada as president of the Canadian Council of Minis- ters of Environment at the World Water Forum. Could the minister tell the House what was dis- cussed at the forum and what benefits British Colum- bians might expect from her trip? Hon. J. Murray: At the third World Water Forum, ministers from countries around the world talked about drinking water quality, talked about ecosystem protection and pollution prevention, talked about agri- culture and water, and flood management.

It was very instructive how common some of the issues were around the world. [1425] As the member mentioned, I was there as the president of the Canadian Council of Ministers of Envi- ronment, representing the Canadian provinces and territories. But there were definitely benefits for British Columbia. I went with an executive of the ministry responsible for water quality, and so the executive and I were able to bring back the ideas, the contacts with people and the best practices and policies for protect- ing water quality here in British Columbia.

The last point I wanted to make was that I had the personal goal of bringing back information… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. J. Murray: …that will assist us in having a living rivers strategy that really contributes to healthy communities and healthy watersheds right across the province. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON SEVERE ACUTE RESPIRATORY SYNDROME R. Stewart: There's a great deal of concern across British Columbia about the SARS outbreak. Many peo- ple are concerned about how this illness can affect them, their families and their children.

I ask the Minis- ter of Health Planning if she can update us on what steps the government is taking to deal with the SARS outbreak in British Columbia. Hon. S. Hawkins: Our top priority certainly is to ensure public health and safety, and the government continues to monitor the situation very closely. To that end, the deputy provincial health officer gave a techni- cal briefing this morning with health authorities and medical health officers there. At this time, we currently have two probable cases and 12 suspect cases. At this time, as well, the cause r e m a i n s u n k n o w n .

W e d o k n o w t h a t n a t i o n a l a n d i n - ternational lab testing and collaborative work is ongo- ing. We've taken a number of steps to prevent further spread of SARS and to protect patients, our health pro- fessionals and certainly the public. Every suspect and probable case in B.C. is being isolated immediately to prevent further spread. The ministry has identified isolation rooms in hospitals across the province to ensure we have capacity to re- spond to any increase in cases.

The provincial health officer sent a letter to 4,000 doctors across the province last week to make sure that they're aware of the signs and symptoms, and they know to act quickly. Any patient in the province who seeks medical attention for a fever and has travelled to affected areas or has had contact with another SARS case is being medically screened. To make sure that our emergency rooms aren't being overwhelmed, Vancouver coastal

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5861 health authority is setting up a separate SARS clinic, and that should happen this week. Certainly, our medical health officers across the prov- ince are communicating with schools, with school boards, with day cares and with other health facilities to make sure that kids are being screened. If they show symptoms, they are kept at home. At this time, it is not necessary to close schools. We don't need to close hospitals, and we certainly don't need to restrict visitors from hospitals. That's what the provincial health officer is advising.

We're stepping up quarantine officers at the Van- couver Airport to screen people. We are going to do everything that we can on the advice of our provincial health officer. CORRECTIONAL FACILITY CLOSINGS B. Locke: My question is to the Solicitor General. We know that jails are an essential part of our justice system. If we are to keep our communities safe, we must have the facilities to incarcerate criminals. I know from the Solicitor General's service plan that a number of provincial jails have been closed. I have heard that the provincial jails are becoming too crowded to accept more offenders.

Many of my constituents are con- cerned about the effect this may have on sentencing criminals. Can the Solicitor General tell us whether there is sufficient capacity in provincial correctional facilities to accommodate offenders receiving provincial jail sen- tences? Hon. R. Coleman: W h e n w e t o o k o v e r a s g o v e r n - ment, we did a review of the correctional system in Brit- ish Columbia. What we found was that we had a num- ber of facilities that were open custody, which were run- ning as low as 33 percent capacity, and our other closed custody facilities were running below capacity.

What we did was get out of the open custody facili- ties simply because we weren't being sent offenders that would actually fit that continuum of correctional centre, and we moved our people into the closed cus- tody facilities. As a result of that, we were able to ra- tionalize our prisons, but at the same time we actually do still have capacity in our jails and are in a position to handle whatever may come along. [1430] YOUTH SPEEDING PREVENTION T. Bhullar: Given the death of so many young peo- ple, my question is to the Solicitor General.

These deaths in speeding vehicles and a very tragic death last week in the member from Cloverdale's constituency…. Has the Solicitor General considered regulating the amount of horsepower for the vehicles that young people operate? Put simply, if you give them high- powered vehicles, they are going to test the speed. Hon. R. Coleman: The one thing we've found, as we've looked at these accidents that have taken place in British Columbia, is it has not been the increase in horsepower that's been added onto the vehicles.

It has been the problem that it's actually the behaviour of the driver in the vehicle that exists today. As the member knows, last year we moved so that we could double the penalty points for people involved in racing. We put in place the fact that we could seize a vehicle on the side of the road that was involved in the activity and also made it possible for the superinten- dent of motor vehicles to suspend a driver's licence for up to two years for that offence.

We are now look- ing at the entire graduated licence program, and some recommendations should be coming forward shortly with regard to the length of learners' permits, passen- gers in vehicles and some of the restrictions with re- gard to new drivers. We think that, combined with some education, will continue to push back at this is- sue, and we'll continue to work on whatever tools po- lice and communities ask us to work on. WORKERS COMPENSATION BOARD APPEALS BACKLOG B. Lekstrom: My question is to the Minister of Skills Development and Labour.

The minister recently announced changes to the Workers Compensation Board appeals process. However, there are 20,000 ap- peals backlogged. Can the Minister of Skills Develop- ment and Labour assure us that the people will have their appeals dealt with in a timely manner? Hon. G. Bruce: Indeed, there are actually some 22,000 backlogged appeals in the system today, and the reworking of the whole Workers Compensation Ap- peal Tribunal was done in an effort to be able to give timely and quality decisions so that people weren't in that process for some three to five years, as has been the case to this point.

Our goal is to shorten that system down to 180 days so that people can get on with their lives and not be involved in a system that has, in some cases, been more debilitating than the actual injury they first received. The fact of the matter is that with the 22,000…. I would just like to put that into context. There's over a million ap- pealable decisions that take place for WCB per year. We've brought on extra staff for these 22,000 cases that are before the appeal tribunal now, and the goal is to have all of that dealt with over the course of the next two years. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Mr.

Speaker: Hon. members, I have the honour to present the service plan, 2003-06, for the office of the in- formation and privacy commissioner for British Columbia. Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: In Committee A, I call Committee of Supply. For the information of members we'll be

5862 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 discussing the estimates of the Ministry of Competi- tion, Science and Enterprise, followed by the Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection. In this chamber, I call second reading of Bill 12. [1435] Second Reading of Bills POLICE AMENDMENT ACT, 2003 (continued) P. Sahota: I'm proud to rise in the House to speak to Bill 12, the Police Amendment Act, 2003. I want to congratulate the minister for bringing in this legisla- tion, because I believe it marks an extraordinary shift in law enforcement in British Columbia.

This legislation will give our policing agencies the ability to better communicate with authorities in other jurisdictions and share information in real time. Most of our police forces today use different data- bases that are not in real time, and the links between various police detachments are missing. The police records information management environment is the first program of its kind in Canada. It will integrate all of the provincial police forces onto one database.

This system has been successfully piloted in three lower mainland communities — Richmond, Port Moody and Vancouver — a n d i t i s e x p e c t e d t o b e i n p l a c e provincewide by 2004. I know, for example, that in my community of Bur- naby, the RCMP is currently not on this system. Most of the cars have a mobile workstation, but they're not connected to other jurisdictions. I recently spoke to the Burnaby RCMP superintendent, and he advised me that he's very much looking forward to a tool that will break the silos that exist today when it comes to com- municating between detachments.

Bill 12 provides our crime-fighting agencies with the tools they need to crack down on crime in our communities and to break down the borders of crime. With the PRIME network, when a crime is committed in one jurisdiction, the information can be shared with all the neighbouring communities and across the prov- ince within minutes. This will be very important in a wide range of criminal activity, including auto theft, home invasions and child abductions. Police will be able to load that information into the system and share it with the entire province in a matter of minutes.

This sharing of information will also bene- fit law enforcement officers in recognizing patterns with crimes that might take place in different parts of the province. This will lead to a better chance of crack- ing cases where the information may not have been available in the past. I want to thank the Solicitor Gen- eral for arming our policing agencies with this new law enforcement tool. P. Wong: I'm pleased to rise in this House today to respond to Bill 12. This is a very important piece of legislation that will benefit all British Columbians.

Our communities will be safer, and police will have the resources they need to work collaboratively and more effectively. In my riding, crime is a big issue. Residents and store owners are telling me that things are getting worse and that crime is negatively impacting their businesses and neighbourhoods. As I have noted before, my constituents are a very proactive group, often organizing groups to tackle problems within their community. Two such groups, Dickens and Mountain View, consist of a number of concerned citizens that work together and patrol the streets at night.

They assist the police by identifying problem areas and reporting them to local law en- forcement. I commend the actions of these groups and am greatly looking forward to the amended Police Act and PRIME, the police records information management environment, both of which will facilitate and enhance law enforcement activities. This bill will have a very important and immediate impact in my riding and throughout the province. PRIME is certainly a Cana- dian technology that all Canadians are proud of. We recognized that we had an information problem in the past.

Conventional police investigation methods are slow and inefficient, and we needed to find a solu- tion to re-engineer police activities and use technology to streamline procedures and speed up processes. Pre- viously, work flow in the police department was time- consuming, tedious and frustrating for all involved. Information was frequently incomplete and ripe for mistakes. [1440] Now officers can query the central police com- puters about licence plates or suspects directly from the patrol car. The result is a reduced workload for com- puter operators at the station and better information in the field.

It's just like the officers have a mobile office right with them inside the car. There are many successful stories in many parts of Canada including London, Ontario, and Fredericton, New Brunswick. I'm glad to hear that with this newest weapon that police can use in the high-tech arsenal against crime, we'll be able to put more police officers on the street.

Vancouver police officer White said: "It is an outstanding system, and we can do things now that we could never have done before." The Premier has the vision to establish the technol- ogy council and an e-government to improve the effec- tiveness and efficiency of its operation. This program will serve as another successful story in a new era that we have put forward in the government. I therefore fully support Bill 12. A. Hamilton: I also rise in support of Bill 12 and would like to thank the Solicitor General for making PRIME available to every community in B.C. — mu- nicipal and RCMP.

I'd like to talk for a minute about my personal ex- periences, having served approximately 31 years in the Esquimalt police department. I can talk about the change in technology and how quickly — and some- times in our minds how slowly — it has progressed.

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5863 When I first joined the force, I can remember talking to my colleagues at the time, who had been there for sev- eral years before me. They spoke about how, when they wanted to get hold of a police officer, they would go outside and they would pull a switch. That would make all the lights in the municipality blink, and that meant the police officer had to report back to the police station because there was a call. When I joined, we had the luxury of being a little bit ahead of that. Some Hon. Members: Not much, though. A.

Hamilton: Not much, but we had radios in the cars, and we had a radio at the station, so we could at least speak to each other. How we did our data and how we did our checks with a suspect was called an L&M card, and what that meant was a location and movement card. If we saw somebody who was acting suspiciously — let's say in a warehouse area — we would check that person, write up all the particulars on a card and file it. Well, of course trying to find those cards when there's only one person in the office and we have no communication — we're out in the car — was a little bit difficult at the time.

You can see we've pro- gressed a long way with the advent of PRIME. I can also relate several experiences as to why PRIME for police officers would be very important. I can remember a personal episode where I was on pa- trol with one of my colleagues, and we spotted this individual who was known to us. He was acting suspi- ciously, in my mind, so I said: "Let's check him out and see what he's up to." So we did that, and everything was fine. We didn't have any computers, as I said — just a radio — and we couldn't talk to our neighbour- ing police department.

About half an hour later we received a call from a neighbouring police department. They gave us a description of an individual who had just committed an armed robbery in their area. We real- ized really quickly from the description that it was the person we had just checked. That could have had tragic circumstances for myself and my colleagues and the citizens if he had had a weapon. With no knowledge of what had transpired, it could have been very tragic. PRIME, with the ability to connect all the vehicles, will go a long way to erasing that situation. As you can see, PRIME is not only a matter of tech- nology.

It's also a matter of safety to the police commu- nity. It also goes to checking suspects, where we would check the suspect just because he was acting suspi- ciously or because he was near a vehicle and we wanted to find out who it was. We would do a check on that person. Unfortunately, we had no form of ID, because, again, the information that we got on the computers that we had at the time — because now we've got com- puters…. We didn't really have a lot of information, be- cause it was only local computers.

We couldn't even access the files of any other departments. [1445] As I've said, PRIME certainly will assist us in giving police officers information that could potentially save their lives or the lives of others. As the Solicitor Gen- eral has said before, only the bad guys won't like this. But they don't have boundaries. Why should the po- lice? I've spoken with the Victoria police chief and m a n y o f m y f o r m e r c o l l e a g u e s , w h o a r e a l s o v e r y e x - cited, supportive and appreciative of this legislation. R.

Stewart: I w a n t t o t h a n k m y c o l l e a g u e f r o m Esquimalt-Metchosin, who was very careful and deliberate in the way in which he explained how the advent of electric lights affected his work in the early days. [Laughter.] I also want to thank the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. I want to thank him for this bill. I want to thank him for the way in which he has tackled the issue of public safety and the issue of our police forces with such interest and with such determination, because my constituents want them there. They want our police forces there to ensure our safety.

They want our police forces there to enforce our laws, and they want them safe. We want them there, and we want them safe. This bill will move us a lot forward, as the previous speaker mentioned very eloquently — and with an outstanding example of how this bill and PRIME will help improve the safety of officers as well as the en- forcement of laws and the ability of our police forces to protect the citizens of our communities. We need to ensure that our police forces have the tools to proceed in the best way they can in enforcing law and in pro- tecting our citizens.

I rise today to support this bill with every ounce of enthusiasm I can, because we must provide our police forces with the tools and the technology that's available to make certain they can achieve the results we hope they will achieve and they can do it as safely as possi- ble for them and their families. I thank the minister, and I support this bill. G. Trumper: I rise briefly to support this bill.

Hav- ing been in the municipal world of local government for many years, knowing how costly policing is to communities and knowing the issues we've had to deal with over the years, anything that makes the job for policing easier is a great advantage. I come from an area that only has one road in and one road out. It has always been deemed that we used to miss a lot of the crime many years ago, because it was difficult. If you had come from outside into the valley and wanted to get out with whatever you had taken, quite often there might be a roadblock.

We al- ways seemed to miss that curve that used to take place on the east side of Vancouver Island. As the years have gone by and transportation comes so much easier, and people are able to get around much more by all sorts of means, the crime level in our area certainly has risen — be it for small crime, B and Es…. We have the same issues as any community has, but in a micro sense. At one time, as some of you know, I was the coro- ner for 18 years on the west coast. I can think specifi- cally of a particular case that, at the time, was dealt

5864 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 with, and it was a very sad case of what had taken place. If there had been better communication at that time between various police detachments right through the province, who knows? We might not have been faced with this very sad incident. [1450] Today, with the new technology that's taking place, it is going to make it so much easier for our police forces — b e t h e y m u n i c i p a l , t h e R C M P o r p r o v i n c i a l policing — to keep track and be able to get the informa- tion that quickly when an incident occurs.

It may well prevent sad incidents, another crime taking place in another community, because the police have got that information at their fingertips. We have progressed a long way in communica- tions. I know that over the last ten years and the last five years, the communications have improved so much.

Whatever we can do to make this a safer place for the citizens of British Columbia, whatever we can do to make the job for the police officers a little easier — and a little safer, I might add — then we should take every advantage of making sure they have the best equipment available and the best communications sys- tems available to enable them to do their job. For that reason, I certainly support this. V.

Roddick: As other members have already noted, the bill currently before this House promises to revolu- tionize policing throughout British Columbia and to ensure that all the police departments and detachments can easily cooperate to fight crime more effectively.

As was discussed with very interested Delta mu- nicipal councillors at this past year's UBCM conven- tion, by expanding the police records and information management environment, every municipal police de- p art m e nt an d R C M P d e t ac hm e nt i n t hi s p ro v i nc e wi l l be connected through an on-line shared communica- tion system known as PRIME-BC. The innovative use of this technology will significantly modernize the way law enforcement officials operate in British Columbia. As it stands now, police departments and detachments across this province use a variety of computer systems and databases.

The proposed amendments to the Police Act will make sure that crime gang members, thieves or street racers cannot elude the police in one city by simply crossing the county line, so to speak, where law enforcement may use a less up-to-date computer sys- tem or database. My constituents in Delta South will be especially enthusiastic about PRIME-BC because our community is one of only 12 municipalities in this province with its own police force. I'll be the first to say that the Delta police department is one of the very best policing out- fits in B.C., and this program will make them even bet- ter.

PRIME-BC will help law enforcers make the streets safer for the many seniors and other vulnerable groups living and working throughout the province and in Delta South. This bill reflects this government's commitment to uniting community leaders, MLAs, law enforcement experts and others in pursuit of better ways to prevent and combat crime. It will make our communities safer, modernize our police forces and ensure that policing in British Columbia continues to be the envy of police forces around the world. PRIME-BC is what law enforcers in this province want. It's what they are asking for.

It's what they de- serve. This government is enhancing public safety by making sure that police forces in Delta and throughout B.C. have the tools they need to keep our communities safe. Hon. R. Coleman: Thank you to the members of our cabinet and caucus that have spoken on this bill in the last little while as we've had this debate on differ- ent sessions, on different days.

This is really about a Premier with a vision for pub- lic safety in British Columbia, one that is committed to safer streets and safer communities in the province by taking that leadership and passing it down through the cabinet and the caucus and getting to where we do something that's actually pretty special for policing in the province. [1455] As we go through this process with PRIME, it be- comes readily apparent that there are other tools that communities need in order to fight crime.

We are going to have our dialogue on crime to deal with that and to start to reinvigorate the process, where we will talk about things like sentencing, incarceration, fines, sei- zure of assets and whatever we need to do in order to fight back against some of the real issues that our po- lice and law enforcement are facing in today's criminal system. The other day I went to the training centre for PRIME as we get ready to launch it and train people on the lower Island of British Columbia.

It was really something to sit there with the law enforcement offi- cers that are actually starting to do the training, both for dispatch and for members of the police forces, as we start to bring this system into play on the lower Island and throughout the rest of British Columbia. One of the incidents that was described to me as an example as we showed it was an incident where there was a family dispute at a residence in an area of Es- quimalt on the lower Island.

The dispatcher was able to bring up the history of the residents so that they could tell the police officer, as they went to the residence, what the history of the residents and the dangers were, whether there was any type of a protection order or other type of order against anybody that may be in- volved in the family dispute at that location.

They were able to geomap it in such a way that they could actu- ally punch in the address and bring up a map of the community and show where the location of the resi- dence was in the community and give instructions, if necessary, to the law enforcement officer on the way, to tell them exactly how to get there or the best location to come in from. In addition to that, as that information was going through, criminal-record checks relative to anybody that had ever had a history at the residence were also

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5865 able to be conveyed out to the officer both electroni- cally and through the dispatch. As we got closer to the incident, if there was any type of situation which would require any type of ability to come to the resi- dence, we could actually zone in a map and pick the exact residence out in the neighbourhood to give the officer the ins and outs of alleyways, shrubbery and the location of the residence or the scene that they were going to so that they would be better prepared when they arrived at the scene.

All of this was being done in a matter of seconds in real time to the officer in the car in the demonstration and to the people at dispatch. Without us taking leadership in this province to say that one system for that type of use for police will be the only system that we will have in this province for information management for policing, we would be failing, at the utmost, our job. It is not acceptable that some community might think that tomorrow it is going to opt out of PRIME and have its own system. That is why this legislation is before the House to- day.

It is s o that we m ake it clear, in law, that one in- formation management system is there for all police forces in the province of British Columbia, without exception, and that this system will reintegrate, across the lines of communication, all information manage- ment environments and make it possible for our law enforcement community to be more efficient and to do their jobs in a manner that is befitting of their commit- ment to the safety of our communities. Without an integrated system, there would be a lack of timely and accurate information, often making effective policing difficult.

In addition, there is cur- rently no ability to conduct crime analysis to identify trends or types of problems within and among com- munities. This kind of analysis allows us to actually deal with crime where it is statistically as we overlook an area of the province to try and deal with particular concerns we have, whether it be in regular break and enters, drugs or things like auto theft. We need the statistical information so that we have that information centrally, so that we can do the job properly.

We have to have that multi-jurisdictional information shared by police and other justice partners so that our law enforcement community can do the job we ask them to do every day. PRIME is going to solve many of the current problems inherent in current polic- ing information environments. It is also going to im- prove the basis for effective communication. As we roll PRIME out, it will also hook directly into the national sex offender registry, and it's already hooked into CPIC as we go forward, so that we'll actu- ally be able to use it on a national basis for statistical analysis in crime-fighting and trends.

It is so important that we have this information for police to be able to let them do the job that we're asking them to do. [1500] The amendments to the act will provide the police two core elements in support of PRIME. These are: (1) the function of evaluating compliance respecting the information management system is given to the direc- tor of police services and (2) the requirement of law enforcement services to use and pay for the informa- tion management system. Today there are a variety of information and record management systems in policing that all cost about $300 to $500 per year, per officer.

This system will be effectively the same amount of money as we go for- ward on an annual basis — about $300 to $500 per offi- cer. The difference is, of course, that we are providing the legislative framework, and we're leading the initia- tive by putting the money forward for the capital and developmental costs across the province to get the in- formation and the system up and running to the road- side. The shared-resource model will split the costs. It allows us to actually rationalize this so it works for all communities in British Columbia.

We've worked closely with our other justice partners — including the criminal justice branch, the court services branch, the Attorney General's corrections branch and also the joint information technology service divisions of the two ministries — to coordinate development to PRIME and JUSTIN, which is a system that will load down all the information from the court system into PRIME so that we can

schedule officers, arrange trials and know what types of orders are coming to the court system in real time, so that we can deal with the examples I ex- plained earlier in my second reading debate with re- gard to how we could transition this information. All police agencies in British Columbia, the RCMP and independent municipal departments are repre- sented on the PRIME steering committee and working groups. The B.C.

Association of Chiefs of Police and the British Columbia Association of Police Boards have been involved in discussions on the benefits of PRIME and are all looking forward to its implementation. [J. Weisbeck in the chair.] With PRIME we are ready for the future. We are ready to link our information system with those of other police forces in Canada and even internationally. But most importantly, we will be the only jurisdiction I can find that is on one singular information manage- ment environment for all our police in the province — no borders, no silos, no breakdown in information.

Real statistical information for fighting crime. The abil- ity to actually plan personnel to fight the issues that we're seeing in communities today. As the Solicitor General, I'm responsible for ensur- ing adequate and effective policing. I'm pleased with the implementation of PRIME, which will enhance the capabilities of police forces in British Columbia to de- liver on this mandate.

These amendments to the Police Act and the im- plementation of PRIME will greatly assist in meeting the new-era commitment of ensuring that all laws are equally applied and in force for all British Columbians, and our strategic objective of safer streets and schools in every community. As I've watched this project evolve, I am more and more convinced. The more I talk to law enforcement

5866 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 officers on the street and at senior and middle man- agement levels, I get the same thing back. This is way overdue. This is groundbreaking. It's high time some jurisdiction actually took the leadership to have one singular information management environment for policing in a jurisdiction. What we will show to the world is how integration of information across borders by policing and constant communication on a regular basis without silos will change how policing can be managed and structured, and can fight crime in our communities.

I am pretty proud of Bill 12, as are the members of t h i s H o u s e . W i t h p r i d e , I m o v e s e c o n d r e a d i n g o f t h e bill. Motion approved. Hon. R. Coleman: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 12, Police Amendment Act, 2003, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. R. Coleman: I call second reading of Bill 19. SAFETY STANDARDS ACT Hon. G.

Abbott: It is my pleasure to move that Bill 19 be read a second time now. I am pleased to present Bill 19, the Safety Standards Act, for second reading. A major review over the past ten years made it clear that current public safety legis- lation is cumbersome and perpetuates a system that is not sustainable. [1505] Now, ten years is a long time in anyone's life, and I was quite amazed, actually, when I heard from staff that this piece of legislation had been ten years in the making. In fact, I guess the process was launched when former Premier Mike Harcourt was still the Premier of British Columbia.

So it goes back a ways. I think that the product of a lot of attention has produced a very good act here. We've learned that, over time, the safety systems become unresponsive and inflexible for contemporary commercial, industrial and institutional operations. That existing legislation resulted in inconsistent ap- proaches to regulatory practices and in concerns for the future of public safety. In addition, factors like popula- tion growth, changes in technology and cost increases made it difficult to deliver timely and appropriate ser- vice using traditional methods.

With this legislation we can sustain and improve British Columbia's level of public safety by, first of all, combining safety legislation into this one act to make the terminology clear and the requirements consistent. As well, this legislation will provide uniform, provincewide standards across jurisdictions, increasing flexibility for field safety representatives and qualified workers and allowing for increased participation of both affected stakeholders and local government.

This legislation ensures a sustainable safety sys- tem with responsible governance, clear accountability and an enhanced level of public safety. It provides for a stable and predictable safety service for those who are regulated. The system will have flexible regula- tions and be adaptable to technical changes, be re- sponsive to client needs and, very importantly, be cost effective. In practical terms, this legislation makes possible a standardized approach across four technical disci- plines: boiler, electrical, elevating devices and gas safety.

It provides effective enforcement tools that level the playing field for responsible operators while at the same time reducing regulatory intrusion and discour- aging non-compliance. It provides for delegation of the administration of the act's service delivery provisions to a safety author- ity and voluntarily to local governments, some of which are already playing this administrative role. Less red tape and a significant reduction in regulation, as well, are the benefits of this legislation, moving us from prescriptive regulation to objective-based codes and standards.

This legislation supports our new-era commitments to streamline regulations and enhance public safety. I want to salute the members of the safety engineering staff of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services for, I think, an excellent and very extensive consulta- tion process that they have undertaken. I thank the many dedicated people in business, industry, labour, associations and government who contributed their time and effort to the consultation process. I am confident that this act and accompanying regulations will provide a high level of safety for the citizens of this province for years to come.

It will make British Columbia a leader in innovative, sustainable safety service delivery. Mr. Speaker, I urge all members of this House to support second reading of Bill 19. J. MacPhail: Bill 19, Safety Standards Act, repeals the Electrical Safety Act, the Elevating Devices Safety Act, the Gas Safety Act, the Power Engineers and Boiler and Pressure Vessel Safety Act and also sections of the Railway Act. It replaces all of those five with this Safety Standards Act. [1510] Yes, the minister is correct. Changes have been ad- vocated in this area for over ten years.

Perhaps if he checks, some of the first advocates for change actually went back to 1983, when many industry leaders were looking to privatize aspects of all of these important safety standards. I remember a very long-serving dep- uty minister, who had served through at least three d i f f e r e n t g o v e r n m e n t s , s a y i n g t o m e w h e n I f i r s t b e - came a cabinet minister: "Beware of the left-hand d r a w e r o f t h e s e n i o r b u r e a u c r a t i n y o u r m i n i s t r y . " I said: "What do you mean?" He said: "The deputy min-

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5867 ister always has a left-hand drawer full of legislation that he or she wants to get through, which is of impor- tance only to that person." I've noted, watching this government bring through changes that have been examined by a government of which I had been part and rejected, that this government embraces those with wholehearted support. I've watched that. This government likes to say: "Well, you, the NDP, thought you were going to do this." I smile and say: "Oh yeah. Somebody asked us to look at doing this, and a cabinet submission was brought forward.

We examined it. We talked about it in caucus, and we rejected it." The difference between that government and this government is that anything that gets them out of the business of being responsible for anything, this gov- ernment embraces. Although it has been in the works for more than ten years — almost 20 years — there are industry stakeholders with whom I have been in touch, who have actually called here. They feel that the bill is incomplete. They have been told, though, that the min- istry will sort out the problems later. It's on that basis that I wish to address this legisla- tion.

Of course, the minister himself acknowledges there is work still to be done in regulations. However, the regulations are nowhere to be found, and now mat- ters will be determined by policy rather than being contained in the legislation itself. I have been asked to express concerns about those matters, and I have those concerns myself. The five pieces of legislation that are being repealed are outdated, but it's important not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Those pieces of legislation have been outdated by technological advances and Building Code changes and by an evolving process of which level of government is responsible for what as- pect of safety. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that all the matters contained in those five pieces of legislation can simply be thrown out. This piece of legislation is fundamentally important in securing the safety of all British Columbians, and it's essential that the ministry continue its consultation process with the concerned stakeholders. They have consulted, but it needs to continue.

It will be up to the minister to defend this against these accusations at committee stage, because there will be many questions. What I think the ministry has failed to do, though, is listen to the feedback from that public consultation. Many workers, many contractors still have serious reservations about some of the changes contained in the legislation, and they're worried that the govern- ment is simply pushing it through in this session with the mentality of: "Oh, don't worry.

We'll fix the prob- lems later." Well, I don't think that when matters of such import are being addressed by this legislation — the safety of everyone in this province — we can afford to have such a laissez-faire attitude about safety. If there are serious concerns that are still being raised in r e g a r d t o t h i s p i e c e o f l e g i s l a t i o n , t h e y m u s t b e t a k e n into account before the legislation comes into effect. As I've said, the legislation replaces or changes five previous pieces of legislation.

It does propose to create a stand-alone agency that will bear the responsibility of ensuring and regulating safety standards in British Columbia. It is my view and the view of many others that after this legislation was tabled, this government is downloading the costs and responsibilities to inde- pendent agencies that are, by definition, less account- able to the public and less transparent in their powers and decision-making. [1515] The new piece of legislation we're discussing today, the Safety Standards Act, creates the stand-alone, non- profit agency that is now not accountable to the public.

The changes made through the Safety Standards Act will require more recordkeeping, more due diligence and assumption of liability by individual workers while the government steps back into a monitoring role. Those are changes that concern me. The government is trying to insulate itself from the responsibility that stems from safety regulations under the guise of providing more flexibility. We heard that word from the minister in his opening remarks — more flexibility for industry.

In reality, the government is simply downloading responsibility for the safety of British Columbians to municipalities, to an arm's- length, non-profit organization and to individual con- tractors themselves. As a consequence, the level of safety in British Columbia has the potential to decline. As I mentioned, municipalities will be particularly hard hit by this legislation. A large responsibility is being downloaded onto municipalities, and they may not be willing to shoulder the load.

Liabilities will be huge for cities, and so they may decide simply to wash their hands of the whole exercise by making individual contractors responsible for the self-regulation. Without a properly regulated safety inspection, people will not be aware that anything has gone wrong, I fear, until it is too late. The proposed legislation will also raise monetary penalties and fines, and some would say: "Good." The fines and penalties are being raised to $100,000 for in- dividuals and $200,000 for companies. Raising fines for safety is a good idea.

It's a fine idea, when it's balanced out by explicitly defined safety standards. However, in this particular situation, safety standards are being relaxed by this legislation. Contractors will be able to use "equivalent workers" instead of workers who have been properly trained and certified. Of course, it is absolutely necessary that this gov- ernment permit that, because they've destroyed the apprenticeship system. They've thrown out the Indus- try Training and Apprenticeship Commission. They've replaced it with nothing.

They've completely under- mined the apprenticeship system, charging tuition now for apprentices so that fewer and fewer are being trained. The government has to find some legislated way out of the mess that they've made in that area. So the fact that equivalent workers will now be permitted instead of properly trained and certified workers…. By the time an accident occurs because of improper safety standards, heavy monetary fines cannot be considered adequate to undo the damage or injury caused.

5868 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 Another concern is that the version of Bill 19 that we are voting on is a slim piece of legislation void of any real, substantive details. Most of the meat of the legislation will be set out in the regulations. However, the regulations will not be debated in this House. We have no idea how the government is going to decide upon those regulations. There will be very little, if any, public scrutiny unless the minister commits to that process in an open, accountable and public way before he passes regulations.

I fear, though, that the regula- tions will now be devised and managed solely by the Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Ser- vices. The regulations, I fear, will not be subject to pub- lic scrutiny, certainly will not be subject to debate in the Legislature and will be able to be changed by the offi- cials — the bureaucrats in the Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services. The fact is that no one yet has been advised of these regulations, so the consultation process that the minis- ter is so proud of has not in any way included the regu- lation drafting to date.

I think that means that the min- ister is asking members of this House to vote on a piece of legislation that is not fully transparent. Of course, that would be nothing new by this government. There are changes and regulations that will be added later.

The minister has introduced the legislation in its cur- rent state with the idea that the problems will be worked out later, and I say again that when it comes to safety standards, later is tragically often just too late. [1520] There are also questions surrounding "equivalent standards agreements," a concept devised by the minis- ter to allow unskilled workers to perform certain safety operations. A contractor will now request to use equivalent or alternative methods of work. I hope that we're not, but we could read that means less qualified workers, cost-cutting measures, etc.

There are no defi- nitions in the legislation of what equivalency might imply, and therefore inconsistency will inevitably oc- cur as different safety managers apply different mean- ings of equivalency, unless that issue is addressed. Equivalency is not the only term that is not defined in the legislation. There is also no mention of what it means to be a qualified worker or a qualified person. These are three key terms that go to the very heart of understanding not only the legislation itself but also its wider implications.

It is difficult to vote on a piece of legislation when everything of importance is contained in the regulations instead of in the actual legislation. I again address the point around ITAC, because it is a very important area of concern — the concern deep- ened by the fact that the Minister of Advanced Educa- tion has yet to table her legislation concerning the changes made to the Industry Training and Appren- ticeship Commission, ITAC.

In fact, just yesterday all of the Industry Training and Apprenticeship Commission offices in British Columbia were closed — doors shut, locked — replaced by a single transition office in Bur- naby and a phone. That's what now is the sole ap- proach that this government has for apprenticeship training. Many tradespeople are concerned about the corre- lation between the Safety Standards Act and the new, yet to be introduced industry training legislation. How will they work together? How will they relate to one another?

Who will be responsible for ensuring that safety standards are met during the current transition period? It's difficult to fully appreciate the impact and implications of Bill 19 without also discussing its rela- tionship with the upcoming industry training legisla- t i o n . Y e t h e r e w e a r e . T h i s g o v e r n m e n t i s p u t t i n g through its safety standards legislation without it being able to be put in the context of what trades training will look like in this province. I will have much more to say on this bill during committee stage. However, I would like to close with these remarks.

Safety standards are essentially impor- tant to all British Columbians. We have all seen the tragedy that can result from ignoring that fact. Many people in industry have spok en for the nee d to e rr o n the side of caution when it comes to safety standards. Many people, both employers and the workers, have spoken to me about the need to err on the side of cau- tion. They have asked for more time to implement the legislation, for more time to study its implications and for more time to build a piece of legislation that is pru- dent and cautious but that works for everybody.

How- ever, I see that this government is proceeding regard- less of those concerns. I suppose we can only wait and see what the results will be. I will be having many questions at committee, and it will be at that stage when I will be able to display by a vote support or lack thereof of certain provisions of this legislation. [1525] Hon. G. Abbott: I do thank the member for her comments. I've always been a student of history, and it was fascinating to get this particular lesson in revision- ist history. I do welcome that.

I think some of the comments made probably would make Joseph Stalin blush in terms of the revisionist history associated with the member's comments, but that's fine. I appreciate that she may have a different view of these things. I guess only a New Democrat could see a decade-long process as something that is ramming through a piece of legislation. Perhaps she has been unduly influenced by the dragon bones exhibit over at the Royal B.C. Mu- seum and sees things in rather broader time periods than we do.

I think, certainly, the modernization of the safety legislation that's contained in Bills 19 and 20 is long overdue, and I'm very proud that we are moving forward with those changes. I was a tad dismayed by the opposition leader's comments about senior bureaucrats nefariously pulling things out of their left-hand drawer to bring forward to the new government. "Bureaucrat" is not a term I use a whole lot, and I think it's really unfortunate that the member makes the suggestion that somehow some- thing nefarious is being undertaken here.

It was just as obvious to me in relation to the safety act as it was to the Museum Act that this was a change that was long overdue. I suppose the former govern-

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5869 ment was preoccupied with its fast ferries and other initiatives and couldn't undertake some of the less sexy aspects of operating a government in British Columbia. I guess we shouldn't be entirely surprised by that. I do think it is long overdue that we move forward on this very important modernization and streamlining of the safety system in British Columbia. I was also fascinated…. Again, I'm glad she put it on the record, though, that she appeared to be suggesting that the legislation had been considered by the former NDP cabinet and rejected.

Again, this appears to be quite a gem of revisionist history in terms of the development of this legislation. I, of course, was never privy to any of the discussions that went on behind the — I shouldn't say iron curtain — cabinet door of the NDP era. It's fascinating. If they considered safety legislation and rejected it, what then did they do in the alterna- tive? I never saw anything resembling a modernization piece for the safety system from the former govern- ment. They had a whole decade to do it, yet somehow it appears they didn't find the time, along with the Mu- seum Act, to undertake those things.

Again, I have to take the member at her word that they considered this and rejected it, but I didn't entirely become convinced by her comments that, in fact, they had done that. The opposition leader also noted that she had been asked to express concerns with respect to this act. It would be fascinating to know who asked her to express concerns about this act. I know that on numerous occa- sions, consultative processes were undertaken with the full range of stakeholders around the safety system. I know this for a fact because I chaired one meeting that involved representatives of the B.C. Federation of La- bour.

They were there. They certainly weren't asking for this legislation to be rejected. I'd be fascinated to know who's asked her to express concerns. This is outdated legislation, and again I ask — it's always appropriate to criticize, I guess, particularly when you're in the opposition: where's the alternative?

After a decade of NDP government, where was the alternative to the safety legislation that we are propos- ing here today? [1530] The member was correct in one thing — that con- sultation needs to continue with respect to the devel- opment of the regulations that will ultimately accom- pany the legislation contained in Bill 19.

We don't see the process of legislation — I think this, perhaps, makes us a little different than the former government — as one in which a great truth is delivered via legisla- tion onto the floor of the House and is wholeheartedly embraced and becomes the perfect truth and the whole answer for eternity. In fact, in every corner of my min- istry and in every corner of government, we need to continue to work with stakeholders to always find ways to make them more efficient and effective. I cer- tainly undertake to do that on a daily basis.

It's certainly not a case here where we have failed to listen to public feedback — just the opposite. We have had the mother of all consultative processes around the development of this safety legislation and the devel- opment of the new safety authority, including, among others — and I'm sure the opposition leader would salute them — the B.C. Federation of Labour. They were full participants in this. I thank them for that, and I thank the many other participants in this process for the very thoughtful, important observations they brought to bear. In some cases they had concerns about moving ahead.

That's good; that's good. This is all part of the process of hearing people and understanding their concerns. By doing so, you immeasurably strengthen the legislation which is then brought before the Legislature. The opposition leader also used that magical term "downloading" in relation to this. She didn't explain how it was downloading. I'm fascinated to hear her opinion in the committee stage of the bill about how this could possibly be construed as downloading, given particularly that the safety engineering system that we have today is somewhere around 90 percent self- supporting.

Whether we have the government directly delivering safety services, as we are today, or we have a safety authority delivering the safety standards, as we will have about a year from now, it doesn't matter. The system is essentially self-supporting. I don't even know how you could construct an academic argument about this being downloaded. It's just purely nonsensi- cal, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that. Many of the theses argued by the opposition leader are, in fact, entirely nonsensical, so why should this be any different? She also suggested the new system wouldn't be ac- countable to the public.

That is all wrong. Through a variety of mechanisms — and we'll get into that more in Bill 20 — we certainly are going to be accountable to the public of British Columbia. It's important that people understand that the provincial government is not desert- ing the field of safety standards management. In a whole range of areas we continue to have a primary role. The principal change here that is contained in Bill 19, and we'll note it again in Bill 20, is that government moves out of direct delivery of those safety standards. It's an important distinction. Government doesn't need to be in the business of delivery.

What it does is leave government in a more powerful, more focused position to be managing the things that government can add value through, for example, legislation; regulation; the setting of standards, which is absolutely critical in the system; quality assurance, which is obviously very im- portant to the public and to people who work in the system; and policy and program development. Those are the areas where government brings value to their work. They don't have to be in the business of directly delivering. I think that's obviously a point.

I hope it's not too subtle a point that it's escaped the opposition leader, but that's a fundamental point about what we're doing here. [1535] Again, in a fairly typical fashion for her, the opposi- tion leader suggested this was another example of mu- nicipal downloading. Well, I'll give her this. The hon.

5870 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 Leader of the Opposition is certainly an expert in mu- nicipal downloading. She was, after all, part of the NDP government back in 1996. I hope people haven't forgot- ten this. Back in 1996, when the NDP government got into some financial difficulty, what did they do about it? Did they make the difficult changes that our government has made in respect to trying to get control of the fi- nances? No. They passed on their problem to the mu- nicipalities of British Columbia in the form of an outright breach of the Local Government Grants Act.

Arbitrarily, unilaterally, without any notification, without any dis- cussion, the NDP government of 1996 downloaded by withdrawal of $113 million in local government grants. Against their own law they downloaded an additional $113 million in costs on municipalities in British Colum- bia, so she is clearly an expert in this area, and I'll give her that. She also speaks out of both sides of her mouth with respect to this. There is absolutely no municipal download in re- spect of either the safety act or the new safety authority that is embraced in Bill 20.

Again, as I noted earlier, this function is essentially self-sustaining. For the 11 munici- palities in British Columbia that deliver safety programs through electrical inspections, gas inspections and so on, those functions are entirely self-sustaining and will con- tinue to be self-sustaining under the new model. We aren't moving away from something that we had in the past. This is a new way for the province to deliver on its standards. We are not changing the fi- nancial relationship one piece with this in relation to the municipalities.

The suggestion that this is in some way municipal downloading is entirely false, and we shouldn't be entirely surprised by that kind of assertion coming from the opposition. Importantly as well, and I'm sorry to be going on at some length here, but I think it's important that I do…. The opposition leader, I suspect wilfully, confuses the issue of equivalent standards, which I think is a very important aspect of this legislation and of the regula- tions that will follow. She confuses that with the issue of qualified workers.

I think she does it as a backdoor way to undertake her criticism of the important changes in the ITAC model that are going to be coming from the Minister of Advanced Education. I guess that's politics. But it's important for the people of Brit- ish Columbia to understand, I think, that she confuses those two very important issues. I do want to say this.

As part of the safety legisla- tion and as part of the new safety authority, we will continue to see qualified workers undertaking the safety jobs in British Columbia, and those qualified workers are going to be part of a system where public safety and workers' safety continue to be the centre- pieces of our safety system in British Columbia. We will, in the months ahead, be developing regulations, again in consultation with a broad range of stake- holders. The notion that somehow the regulations won't be under the scrutiny of the public…. I mean, frankly, I'm astonished by that argument.

How the new regulations could, for example, be one iota less subject to the scrutiny of the public than are the existing regu- lations…. It's all going to be out in the open. It's all going to be there for consideration. We'll certainly be hearing a range of views as we move forward with those regulations. In some cases, we may have differ- ences of opinion about what is appropriate regulation, and that's good too. Differences of opinion always help us to advance our thinking and to build from a better plane of understanding. [1540] The process is certainly going to be open.

It's cer- tainly going to be inclusive. Certainly, we look forward to working with stakeholders to build on what is, in British Columbia today, a very good safety record. Bill 19 and Bill 20, which we'll be discussing in just a mo- ment, are going to build on that very successful safety record we have in British Columbia. We're going to be building on the experience of other jurisdictions in Canada and around the world to make our safety sys- tem the most modern, the most streamlined, the most effective safety system that exists in Canada and, I sus- pect, anywhere on the globe.

British Columbians can move forward knowing that their safety system is the very best and that their government is working very hard to make it even better. I move second reading. Motion approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 19, Safety Standards Act, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consid- eration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. R. Coleman: I now call second reading of Bill 20. SAFETY AUTHORITY ACT Hon. G.

Abbott: I move that Bill 20 be read for a second time now. I'm pleased to present Bill 20, the Safety Authority Act, for second reading. A major review revealed that our public safety system had become increasingly stressed due to rapid technological change, population growth, escalating costs and outdated legislation. In the years since that review, many people from indus- try, business, government, labour and associations have devoted time and effort in shaping a modern sys- tem to ensure a responsive, sustainable safety system for today and tomorrow.

This legislation is one of the results of that review and consultation. The Safety Authority Act provides for the administration of safety delivery components of the Safety Standards Act by an independent, not-for- profit safety authority. The authority will be fully cost-recovered through fees for service, for inspection and for licensing and certification. Currently, the safety program is about 90

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5871 percent cost-recovered. The authority will set the fees in consultation with industry and based on criteria established by the province and outlined in the admin- istrative agreement. Having control over the revenues collected, the authority can ensure that all funds are reinvested in the safety system. There are other advantages as well. This act allows the delivery of safety services by an organization that operates under the same rules and principles as most stakeholders, making the safety services more relevant, stable and predictable.

The authority will observe sound business principles while fostering safety and will oper- ate with the direction and advice of a qualified board of directors. Strong checks and balances built into the sys- tem will ensure public safety standards are met. Be assured that government continues to be re- sponsible and accountable to British Columbians for public safety programs.

While the British Columbia Safety Authority will be responsible for the day-to-day administration of safety services, the government con- tinues to be responsible to set legislation, regulation and major external policies; adopt codes and standards by regulation; manage relationships related to inter- provincial codes and standards; oversee local govern- ment participation in the safety system; establish the fee-setting process and criteria; oversee the appeal process; delegate administrative powers to the author- ity; and, finally, monitor results.

Along with the Safety Standards Act, this legisla- tion will modernize the safety system while maintain- ing and enhancing one of the best provincial safety records in Canada. It will ensure reliable, efficient and effective delivery of the public safety system for British Columbia for many years to come. I look forward to a second reading of this bill. Deputy Speaker: Seeing no further speakers, the minister closes debate on second reading. [1545] Hon. G. Abbott: I think, in my earlier comments in relation to Bill 19, I covered off most of the areas here.

This safety authority is a very important piece in the modernization of safety delivery in the province. It is going to make for an even stronger safety system for this province. We have built on the experience of juris- dictions elsewhere in Canada and around the world in developing this model. I'm very confident in the very extensive and very professional work that has been done by staff in my ministry and, indeed, across gov- ernment as they moved forward to implement the goal of a stronger, sustainable, efficient, effective safety sys- tem and safety authority for the province of British Columbia.

I look forward to all members supporting this on second reading. Motion approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I move that Bill 20 be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 20, Safety Authority Act, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after to- day. Hon. R. Coleman: I call estimates debate. For the information of the members, we will be discussing the estimates of the Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services.

Committee of Supply The House in Committee of Supply B; J. Weisbeck in the chair. The committee met at 3:47 p.m. The Chair: We are going to take a ten-minute re- cess. The committee recessed from 3:47 p.m. to 4:01 p.m. [R. Stewart in the chair.] ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF COMMUNITY, ABORIGINAL AND WOMEN'S SERVICES (continued) On vote 16: ministry operations, $642,998,000, (con- tinued). J. MacPhail: I'm going to explore the area of the ministry of state for women's equality first. Just for the information of the committee, I will have a few ques- tions on housing and then the Olympics.

Could the minister tell the committee what the in- come threshold for receiving child care subsidies was in the years 2001, 2002 and 2003? [1605] Hon. L. Stephens: The income levels that determine the monthly subsidy vary quite a bit, primarily because of the size of the family and the income level of the fam- ily, but I can give the member some examples, if she wishes. If you took a single parent working with a four- year-old in group care, previously they would qualify for the top subsidy at $1,297 net monthly income. That subsidy would have been $368 a month.

The new one is $368 a month, with the raising of the level to approxi- mately $1,400 net a month. Under the new system that begins in May, we'll see the monthly amount of $368 for a single parent working with a four-year-old in group care. If you have a single parent in school with a two- year-old and a four-year-old in family care, with a net monthly income of $1,490, currently the level of subsidy is $758, and the new subsidy will be $758. The full sub- sidy for this parent is $758 a month. J. MacPhail: I know the minister is giving me the facts, but she's avoiding the question. The income

5872 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 threshold for 2001 was what, and what was the income threshold for 2002? Hon. L. Stephens: The difficulty arises around the size of the family and the income level of the family. There is a formula, and that's what makes it difficult to give a definitive number for the member. But I'll just say again that a single parent working with a four-year-old in group care, with a monthly income of $1,297 a month, qualifies for the full subsidy of $368 a month. This per- son would also be eligible for full subsidy with a net monthly income of up to $1,397 a month.

So it's difficult to give the member the number that she's looking for, because it does vary because of the size of the family and the income level of the family. [1610] J. MacPhail: Let me try this. By how much did the minister raise the threshold for people to qualify and, therefore, people lost part of their child care subsidy? If the minister is going to stand up and try to obfuscate with figures to show that nobody can figure out how she cut, then I'll just move on to another question. Hon. L. Stephens: I'm sure the member is looking for the decisions that were made around child care subsidy a year ago.

This is when the income threshold was raised by $285 a month, which meant that there were some families who no longer qualified for sub- sidy. Since then, we have made the change, and we have raised the threshold by $100. We now have ap- proximately 3,000 children that will be eligible for sub- sidy, and we'll have a further 6,000 children who will have their subsidy increased, for a total of approxi- mately 9,000 children. J. MacPhail: In fact — and I understand how this can happen — the minister said she raised the threshold, and in fact she lowered the threshold. Here's what hap- pened.

The families who previously qualified for child care subsidies — and therefore could stay in the work- force — had their threshold income changed so that if you earned $285…. In other words, the threshold was reduced by $285 per month. Previously, if you earned $1,500 a month, you would qualify for some subsidy. This government reduced it so that you would only be able to earn $1,215 per month in order to qualify for any subsidy. I think the minister is looking for a pat on the back, because as of May 2003, if a family now has an income of $1,315 per month, they will continue to qualify for the subsidy.

What the government did was they knocked thousands of children off the child care sub- sidy list, and they're now trying to claim credit because they added a few thousand more children back. The B.C. Coalition of Women's Centres states that before April 2002, a single mom could earn $9.20 an hour or less and still earn a subsidy. Now she must earn $8.73 an hour or less to qualify. Where is it that the minister feels…? Even after she's restored some children to receiving a subsidy, where is it that the minister gets the gumption to stand up and say they support children and child care? Hon. L.

Stephens: The changes that have been made to the child care system are based on the sustain- ability of the child care system and the predictability and the choices for parents. The changes that were made to the child care sub- sidy….

When we looked at the results of those changes and the Ministry of Human Resources was able to real- ize some organizational efficiencies within their minis- t r y , w e l o o k e d a t p u t t i n g m o n e y b a c k t o c h i l d c a r e , particularly for parents, recognizing that many low- income parents and single-parent families struggle with finding the funding they require to make sure their children have access to quality child care.

That's what we've done. [1615] We were very clear, as was the Premier, that when we looked at the strategic shifts that we made in the budgeting process, we would evaluate those decisions, and where we found that we needed to make some c h a n g e s , w e w o u l d d o t h a t . T h i s i s o n e o f t h o s e i n - stances where we found that we needed to put some funding back in, and quite simply that's what we've done. We've raised that level to $100.

Frankly, member, I'm looking forward to the day when the economy of the province picks up, we have a lot more people working and paying taxes, and we can contribute fur- ther to parent subsidy in this province. J. MacPhail: Well, the minister will be waiting a long time because the good Liberal government has placed our economic growth in this country number ten in 2003, number ten in 2004, and we may move up to the seventh- or eighth-lowest in 2005. Those fore- casts from the banks are based on a resolution to the softwood lumber dispute, and that's nowhere in sight. So what does this government do?

Instead of actu- ally using the relative resources of government to cush- ion the effects on families because of the downturn in the economy, this government gives it all away to the richest and the corporations, and then cuts the child care subsidy. The child care subsidy for a single mom with a four-year-old, the minister just said, was $368 a month. Well, the good news is that that same family got the same subsidy when Bill Vander Zalm and the Social Credit government were in power, and they lost power in November of 1991. But what's happened to day care costs since 1991?

Well, for that same family that gets a subsidy of $368, the average cost for a day care space now is $495 to $537 and rising every day because of the cutbacks this government has made. Let me just read a letter from a woman — well, I assume it's a woman; my apologies if it's not — in Gib- sons, B.C., a single mom trying to get by on this gov- ernment's reduced child care subsidy. I shall read it into the record, and I got permission to do so. "I was a victim of the Liberal Party child care subsidy cutbacks. I have done everything I can think of — writing

TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 5873 letters to MPs and the Premier, media forums, etc. — to no avail. "The fact is, we are not making it. I now have to pay approximately $600 per month, and that is with a family member generously helping me four days a month. I am a single parent who has always taken pride in the fact that I have been steadily employed and self-sufficient, never relying on government handouts.

"The child care subsidy is not a handout; it is paid as a wage to hard-working child care providers who ensure the well-being of our children while we earn money to pay our taxes." And then in brackets she has: "A $1 billion upgrade for the Sea to Sky Highway for a ten-day event? I don't think so. "Before the cutbacks, we just squeaked by, but now I am depending on credit cards to buy groceries and clothing, and the debt just gets deeper and deeper. The letters I've written have fallen on deaf ears, spouting quotes about 'We want you to reach your full potential.' I've worked full-time for 20 years.

How much more full potential do they want me to get?" What is it that the minister doesn't get about the fact that her attack on working families is hurting not only the families and the children but the economy? Hon. L. Stephens: Again, I will say to the member opposite that we looked at the child care subsidy. We looked at the number of children, particularly in some of the inner-city school areas of the province. We talked with child care providers, and we've made the decision to put that $100 back into child care subsidy. As I said earlier, I look forward to the day when we can, in fact, increase that.

There hadn't been a change to child care subsidies since 1995, so there were

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0401pm-11
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0401pm 11
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8a817d3af10e98cfbc1ce2d2b18a769189cfb15b

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).