2007 Legislative Session: Third Session, 38th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes

only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

MONDAY, MAY 28, 2007

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 21, Number 7

CONTENTS

Routine Proceedings

Page

Introductions by Members

Tributes

Vancouver Giants hockey team

Hon. G.

Campbell

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First

Reading of Bills

Small Business Fairness and

Protection Act, 2007 (Bill M218)

Robertson

Business Practices and Consumer

Protection Amendment Act, 2007 (Bill M219)

Gentner

Statements (Standing Order

25 B )

Cecylia Witkowski

Gentner

Memorial Cup champions Vancouver

Giants

McIntyre

Gold River–Tahsis Great Walk

Trevena

Judy McGowan and Kiwanis Kids

Choir

Lekstrom

Economic development in Coquitlam

Thorne

Child care in B.C.

MacKay

Oral Questions

Plan for coal-fired plant in

Prince George area

C. James

Hon. G.

Campbell

Simpson

Fleming

Hon. R.

Neufeld

Closing of Canfor mill in

Mackenzie

C. Wyse

Hon. R.

Coleman

Simpson

Canada line construction on Cambie

Street

Robertson

Hon. K.

Falcon

Fraser Health Authority service

plan

A. Dix

Hon. G.

Abbott

Employment practices at Nanaimo

Seniors Village

L. Krog

Hon. G.

Abbott

Tabling Documents

B.C. Assessment, annual service

plan report, 2006, and audited financial statements for

period ended December 31, 2006

Reports from Committees

Select Standing Committee on

Public Accounts, report on the appointment of an Auditor General

R. Fleming

J. McIntyre

Motions without Notice

Appointment of Auditor General

Fleming

Petitions

C. James

M. Farnworth

A. Dix

B. Ralston

M. Sather

G. Gentner

L. Krog

M. Karagianis

C. Wyse

G. Coons

C. Puchmayr

N. Simons

N. Macdonald

R. Chouhan

H. Bains

J. Brar

R. Fleming

J. Horgan

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Office of the Premier

Hon. G.

Campbell

C. James

Farnworth

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Aboriginal

Relations and Reconciliation

Fraser

Hon. M.

de Jong

[ Page 8227 ]

MONDAY, MAY 28, 2007

The House met at 1:36 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Introductions by Members

B. Ralston: I have some important constituents visiting

here today from Surrey-Whalley — perhaps the most important constituents: my

wife Miriam Sobrino and our children Daniel Ralston, Martin Ralston and Sonia

Ralston. Will the House please make them welcome.

Hon. G. Campbell: Today in the House we're joined by a real

B.C. legend. Mr. Dal Richards has joined us. Dal and his big band have been

playing for British Columbians for over seven decades. This past New Year their

performance was the 72nd consecutive New Year's performance for Dal Richards and

his band.

I hope that all of us will make Dal and his wife Muriel Honey feel

welcome and recognize that we've still got a big celebration coming in 2010.

We're all looking forward to listening to him play then too, and we make him

feel welcome.

Tributes

VANCOUVER GIANTS HOCKEY TEAM

Hon. G. Campbell: Yesterday we had a special event in

British Columbia, in Vancouver particularly. I recognize that people in Kamloops

and people in Cranbrook have had this celebration in the past, but yesterday the

people of Vancouver and across this province actually set a new memorial

tournament record for attendance — 121,000 people attending that tournament.

Interjection.

Hon. G. Campbell: Oh, Kelowna as well. I'm sorry.

There were 450 volunteers to make this a memorable Memorial Cup,

but I think all of us will recognize that Don Hay, his coaching staff, Milan

Lucic — the whole Vancouver Giants team — made us all proud yesterday when they

won Canada's Memorial Cup.

Introductions by Members

L. Krog: Joining us in the gallery today is Chris Martin.

She's the chair of the Nanaimo Seniors Village Hospital Employees Union local.

Accompanying her are a number of other workers who are in the process of losing

their jobs and a number of their supporters. I'd ask the House to please make

them welcome.

Hon. R. Coleman: I seldom get people that come to Victoria,

because maybe my riding is too close. Sometimes when it rains, it pours. Today

seated in the Speaker's gallery are a number of ladies who we affectionately

call the women's advisory council in my riding, which basically means that

they're the ones who tell me when my hair is too long and when my suits don't

match.

They're the ones who also tell me when I did a good job at any

particular time. Actually, most of the time they're pretty critical, pretty

challenging, but they're a good group of people. They all came over today, and I

had dinner with them in the dining room.

I'd like to introduce them to the House. Debra Aldred is our

newest member of the women's advisory council because she just came to British

Columbia from Australia with her husband. They're now doing some things — I

think it's in racing, actually — in B.C.

Along with them are Rosaline Webster, Carol Campbell, Julie

Willoughby and Ida Fallowfield — all of these folks and their spouses or friends

went on a recent safari with me to Africa — Dixie Jacobson as well as Alexander

Stolte, Denise Barnaby and Karen Cameron, who is the president of the women's

advisory council.

Sheryl Strongitharm, who is the best constituency assistant in

British Columbia, joins them as well — and of course my wife of 33 years,

Michele, who is my best friend and my greatest supporter. Will the House please

make them welcome.

D. Thorne: Today I have the pleasure of introducing one of

my oldest friends, who is visiting British Columbia from St. John's,

Newfoundland. Her name is Linda Giannou. She is with my most important

constituent as well, my husband Neil Edmondson. I would like the House to please

make them both welcome.

[1340]

Hon. C. Taylor: I'd like to welcome today to the House a

good friend of mine, Mr. Duncan Wilson, former chair of the Vancouver school

board and currently the communications director for the Vancouver Port

Authority. Please make him welcome.

S. Fraser: I have a number of constituents visiting today,

independent of each other. There are Carole and Graham Bunch visiting from

Qualicum Beach, friends and constituents. Also, I see Bruce Dumont. He's the

president of the Métis Nation B.C. and is visiting today with a fair number of

the executive. Keith Atleo, the elected chief councillor from Ahousat, B.C., is

also in the precinct today. Will you please join me in making them feel very

welcome.

Hon. M. de Jong: Along with my colleague the Minister of

Community Services I am pleased to welcome, on behalf of all members, to the

gallery today a number of aboriginal leaders who have gathered here in the

precincts to celebrate the unveiling of the aboriginal youth internship program

first referred to in the Speech from the Throne. I'd like to acknowledge the

work of these leaders and representatives and relay to the House their presence.

[ Page 8228 ]

From the Unified Aboriginal Youth Collective, Tresley Tourond, the

minister responsible for youth with Métis Nation B.C.; Stephanie Albiston, lower

mainland regional youth representative, B.C. United Métis Youth Circle; Kelly

L'Hirondelle, executive director, Knowledgeable Aboriginal Youth Association;

Theresa Point, policy and community development coordinator, Knowledgeable

Aboriginal Youth Association; Rebecca Jules, provincial urban aboriginal youth

governance coordinator, United Native Nations, youth governance; Michelle

Morfitt, provincial aboriginal youth council coordinator, B.C. Association of

Aboriginal Friendship Centres; and from the Métis Nation B.C., as already

mentioned, president Bruce Dumont, vice-president Lorne LaFleur; minister of

children and families Dave Hodgson; Kay Dahl, minister of education; René

Therrien, minister of culture and heritage; and Frazer Macdonald, minister for

justice, housing and sport; staff of the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations and

Reconciliation.

Also involved in these discussions: Milt Wright, Lisa Nye, Nikko

Paulo and earlier — and I think still here — from the First Nations Leadership

Council, Dave Porter.

I hope all members will take advantage of the opportunity to

welcome these individuals and applaud their efforts. If you have aboriginal

youth who you believe may be appropriate for the youth internship program,

please provide them the information that we have available and have them

participate. Please welcome all our guests.

M. Sather: Joining us today in the gallery is my assistant

Sheryl Seale, who does a fantastic job of keeping me organized and keeping

things running in Maple Ridge and here in Victoria. Also joining Sheryl is her

husband Paul, who is a lawyer and also an accomplished musician; Sheryl's

stepmother Maxine Kootnekoff; and her mother-in-law of 29 years Patricia

Christian, who lives here in Oak Bay. Will the House please make them all

welcome.

Hon. R. Coleman: I could say that one other individual in

the women's advisory group wanted to be introduced separately, or I could admit

to the fact I can't read my own writing in the right sequence. It is the latter,

of course. I would like to have the House welcome Denise Barnaby to the House

today as well, please.

N. Macdonald: It's a pleasure to introduce from Golden my

constituency assistant, Joy Orr. Would the House please join me in making her

welcome.

Hon. J. van Dongen: Today in the members gallery we have a

special visitor from Jamaica. Officially visiting Victoria for the first time is

Her Excellency Evadne Coye, high commissioner of Jamaica to Canada. The Minister

of Economic Development and I had a very interesting lunch with her discussing

economic opportunities for Jamaica and British Columbia. Accompanying her are

Dr. Astley Smith, honorary consul of Jamaica at Vancouver; Mr. Mike Morley, a

member of the Jamaican community in Victoria; and Judith, her assistant from

Vancouver. I ask the House to make Her Excellency and her whole delegation very

welcome.

[1345]

R. Fleming: In the legislative precinct today are a couple

of constituents of mine who, over the weekend, celebrated a significant

anniversary: 25 years together as a couple. Richard and Betty Stevens celebrated

together on the weekend. They're a wonderful couple. They love each other very

much, and they've had a wonderful relationship over 25 years in both sickness

and health. Will the Legislature please join me in congratulating them on that

milestone.

S. Hawkins: Will the House please help me welcome Juliet

Scaife, the parliamentary librarian of Tasmania. She's visiting our Legislature

as the last leg of an information-gathering tour that has included the

parliaments of London, Scotland, Ireland and Ontario. Please help me make her

welcome.

I. Black: One of our legislative interns is a young man by

the name of James McAllister. He's a fine young guy — very, very bright and one

of the future leaders of our province, but perhaps more pertinently to me, he's

also a fine constituent of the riding of Port Moody–Westwood. James's mom and

dad are here today, and I thought we should make them feel welcome.

We've got in the gallery today Barb McAllister and Frank Bird.

Frank is an employee of the provincial liquor distribution branch, and Barb is

an office administrator. They come from the marvellous community of Port Moody.

Would the House please join me in making them feel most welcome.

S. Fraser: Last week I had two grade 5 classes visiting

from Qualicum Beach, from Arrowview Elementary School. They were Laurie Rankin's

class and Laura Bonnor's class. Last Thursday, when I stood and got this on

Hansard, I realized that the red light wasn't on and noticed that there was

no one here. So I'm belatedly doing it again.

I would like you to make both grade 5 classes feel welcome this

week for their visit last week — and the parents who came with them and all of

the students too. Please join me in making them feel very welcome last week.

D. Hayer: I have today a special guest, friend and

community leader Ken Fisher, who is the executive director and president of Nova

Métis Heritage Association located in Surrey. Ken has been a close friend, and

he volunteers on many organizations in Surrey. I have known him for more than 25

years. Would the House please make him very welcome.

D. Jarvis: I have three special ladies to introduce from my

riding, and I hope you all give them a warm welcome. It's Hilda Colwell, my

riding president; Miss Jane Thornthwaite, who is a trustee for North

[ Page 8229 ]

Vancouver district 44; and last but not least, my wife Dianne Jarvis.

L. Mayencourt: In addition to all the wonderful people that

have already been introduced, I have a couple of friends here from Vancouver-Burrard:

Betty Jones and Gary Stopyra. Would you all please make them feel welcome.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

SMALL BUSINESS FAIRNESS AND

PROTECTION ACT, 2007

G. Robertson presented a bill intituled Small Business Fairness

and Protection Act, 2007.

G. Robertson: I move introduction of the Small Business

Fairness and Protection Act, 2007, for first reading.

Motion approved.

G. Robertson: It is with great respect for the small

business owners, their families, their staff and loyal customers that I

introduce this urgent legislation today.

This bill creates a program for giving grants and emergency

interest-free loans to small businesses struggling from major traffic

disruptions due to the construction of provincially significant public

infrastructure projects. Specifically it will provide for grants equivalent to a

store's annual property tax to be issued directly to the business owners and

create a mechanism for providing short-term, no-interest loans so that affected

businesses can survive the extended construction period.

Compensation for business losses is common in other jurisdictions.

In fact, they're quite often anticipated in budgets. This bill can immediately

offer compensation to the over 500 small and medium businesses along the Canada

line corridor. Access to their stores is being significantly impacted for six to

18 months, and so far, average sales for most retailers are down between 40 and

60 percent.

[1350]

Would members of this House sacrifice half of their salaries to

see the RAV line built? Government members are supporting quite the opposite in

the House this week. Meanwhile, these small businesses are unfairly shouldering

unbearable costs in the construction method being taken. This must be

acknowledged and compensated for in a fair and urgent manner. I urge all members

of the House to support this bill and the fair and reasonable treatment of the

small businesses making great sacrifices for the sake of the Canada line

project.

I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for

second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M218, Small Business Fairness and Protection Act, 2007,

introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for

second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONSUMER

PROTECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 2007

G. Gentner presented a bill intituled Business Practices and

Consumer Protection Amendment Act, 2007.

G. Gentner: Mr. Speaker, I move that the Business Practices

and Consumer Protection Amendment Act, 2007, be read a first time today.

Motion approved.

G. Gentner: In 2006 Canadians spent an estimated $6 billion

on gift cards, or 55 percent of Canadians over 18 either purchased or received a

gift card.

Home Depot, for example, reported $52 million in income from cards

that expired between 1998 and 2001. In Canada, Consumer Reports suggests

that the amount of unredeemed cards is more than 10 percent, while in the United

States of America reports have it as high as 19 percent. It is estimated that

about $800 million is spent in B.C. annually, meaning that at least $80 million

in gift cards remain unredeemed annually in this province.

That's free money. Gift cards have become more of a gift for the

retailer than for the consumer. Consumers need protection.

The amendment to the Business Practices and Consumer Protection

Act introduces the toughest consumer protection legislation in the country, and

frankly, it's a page from Washington State. What's good for other provinces and

Washington State is good for B.C.

This bill does not endorse date restrictions to promotional cards.

It simply eliminates expiry dates on gift cards that consumers have paid for.

There's no time for delay. In less than three weeks from today

B.C.'s fifth-largest retailing season is upon us. It's called Father's Day.

Let's get this bill done through the session's end, so dad cannot feel guilty

about cards left in the drawer or in his wallet.

I move the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Amendment

Act be ordered to be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the

next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M219, Business Practices and Consumer Protection Amendment

Act, 2007, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of

the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25

B) CECYLIA WITKOWSKI

G. Gentner: Despite losing her luggage, a stress fracture

to her left shin and the late arrival of her skates in Halifax, 15-year-old

Cecylia Witkowski won the

[ Page 8230 ]

junior women's bronze medal at this year's National Figure Skating

Championships.

Cecylia began taking lessons when she was four. She's up early

every morning and spends hours on dry-land training. She's on the ice 20 hours a

week, splitting her travelling time between Richmond and Coquitlam. Cecylia

plays piano and squeezes in time for hip-hop dance lessons with her friends.

What's most impressive is that she maintains straight As at Seaquam Secondary

while taking leave at 11 a.m. every second day for skating lessons.

Cecylia's father works and works and works to pay the $30,000 and

more for coaching and ice time. An Olympic medal is no easy slog. While

competing against most skaters two years her senior, Witkowski landed a double

axel, a triple toe loop–double toe loop combination, a double flip and a

level-three circular footwork sequence with good spins to the music of Irving

Berlin.

She's only a triple salchow away from the next podium, and we can

all share that dream, but keep in mind the demand, sacrifices and hardships of

athletes and their families. Upon finishing her performance, hurting and sore,

British Columbia's emerging star said: "I just told myself that everything would

be okay and that I had to focus on something strong and work to do my best."

Staying strong and work to do my best — that's what it's all about.

[1355]

MEMORIAL CUP CHAMPIONS

VANCOUVER GIANTS

J. McIntyre: I rise today to celebrate an important event

that everyone in the House should be proud of. We are the champions, and I'll

spare you the singing.

The Vancouver Giants are now officially the top junior hockey team

in Canada after defeating the Medicine Hat Tigers 3-1 on Sunday to claim

Canada's top junior trophy, the Memorial Cup. This was following a dramatic 8-1

win in the semifinals against the Plymouth Whalers on Friday night.

This victory is especially sweet for our hometown heroes as it

marks the first Memorial Cup win since the team was formed six years ago,

bringing top-calibre junior hockey to Vancouver. We have seven players on the

team from B.C.

I had the privilege of watching the Giants' first game of the

round-robin tournament against the Plymouth Whalers ten days ago at the Pacific

Coliseum, joining the thousands of diehard fans cheering on this team with skill

and heart. It was a thrilling overtime win for the Giants to start the

tournament with a big flair. Let me tell you that if we could harness the energy

and the enthusiasm of the Giants' fans, we'd solve all of British Columbia's

energy problems in short order.

Competition aside, playing host to the Memorial Cup was a great

opportunity to showcase Vancouver to the rest of the country and to highlight

our province's sporting spirit, which I expect will be just as strong when we

host the Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games in 2010. This builds on the same

winning platform we exhibited in hosting and winning the world junior tournament

over Christmas of '05-06.

I'd ask all the members of this House to join me in offering our

heartfelt congratulations to all of the players, the coaches, the staff and

owners of the Vancouver Giants for their Memorial Cup victory — the first of

many, I'm sure. I'd also like to call on all members to congratulate the

hundreds of hard-working volunteers and members of the 2007 Memorial Cup

Vancouver organizing committee for putting together a truly first-class sporting

and winning event.

Thank you. You make us all proud British Columbians.

GOLD RIVER–TAHSIS GREAT WALK

C. Trevena: Some members of this House and some of the

ministers opposite will have heard of my concerns about the Head Bay Road. It's

63½ kilometres of logging road between Gold River and Tahsis. It's a road vital

to the village of Tahsis for its dreams and its plans.

Several hundred people are going to see the road up close on

Saturday when they step out for one of the toughest fundraising hikes around —

all 63½ kilometres of the Head Bay Road in one day. No wonder it's called the

Great Walk.

This Saturday marks the 30th Great Walk — a boot-burning event, as

it's described. It starts at four in the morning, and hikers continue till eight

that evening up and down the mountains through the west coast's most spectacular

countryside.

Hikers are coming from Vancouver, Victoria, Oregon, Alberta and as

far away as Honolulu for the trek, organized by the Lions Club. Over the years

thousands of dollars have been raised for charities, ranging from the Heart and

Stroke Foundation to UNICEF. In fact, the member for Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows

talked about one of his constituents who's fundraising for that walk.

The whole thing started in the 1970s when the then mayor of Tahsis,

Bill Lore, challenged Gold River's mayor, Vic Welsh. Lore said he'd walk to Gold

River if Welsh walked to Tahsis. The gauntlet was picked up, and the tradition

began.

At that stage $5,000 was raised for the community centre. Since

then, the Great Walk has gained the reputation of being North America's toughest

walkathon. Like any event, there are the records. The fastest time for 63½

kilometres — 4½ hours. The youngest person to complete it was seven, and the

oldest, 82.

It's an amazing event and a healthy tradition. I hope it will

continue, maybe even one day along a paved road, for many years to come.

JUDY McGOWAN AND

KIWANIS KIDS CHOIR

B. Lekstrom: It's my pleasure today to stand in this House

and speak about an incredible organization in my community that I represent, in

my hometown of Dawson Creek — not just an incredible organization, but an

incredible lady that really founded this. The

[ Page 8231 ]

organization is what we call the Kiwanis Kids Choir, sponsored by the Kiwanis

Club.

[1400]

This choir has been in existence for 16 years. For all 16 of those

years Mrs. Judy McGowan has been their leader. She comes from a musical

background. Her brother Roy Forbes is a recording artist and is from Dawson

Creek as well. The work that Judy has done is truly amazing.

Although this is a kids choir, in 1994 after two years of

operation she expanded it to include the adults as well. Many of these adults

were the parents of the children that were participating. Both my wife Vicki and

I…. Our two daughters went through this. My wife actually participated, as well,

under Judy's guidance. I found it interesting that my children asked my wife to

participate and not myself, but they have heard me sing, so….

I do want to pay tribute to Judy for the work that she has done

with the Kiwanis Kids Choir. She has retired now after 16 years of serving the

community in this capacity as well as many others. During the 16 years we've

seen 600 children go through the Kiwanis Kids Choir. I can tell you they learn a

great deal about music, but they learn a great deal about manners and about

discipline. The talent that has come through this is truly amazing.

On behalf of myself and, I'm sure, the members, I want to extend a

huge thank-you to Judy McGowan and the Kiwanis Kids Choir and all of the parents

that allowed their children to take

part in what I think is one of the finest

organizations that our community and region has seen. They participated at

numerous events, roughly 25 a year on average. One of the highlights certainly

is the Christmas candlelight that we do at our seniors homes in Dawson Creek and

Pouce Coupe. Each and every year they're there.

I thank them on behalf of all of us.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN COQUITLAM

D. Thorne: I am pleased to rise today to speak about

economic development in Coquitlam. More than a hundred years ago Coquitlam built

its economic foundations on the lumber and shipping industries. Today a wide

variety of sectors, including commercial retail, office and light industrial,

choose Coquitlam because of its central location, its excellent schools and a

skilled and growing labour pool.

A business-friendly city hall with a focus on economic

development, working closely with our large and vibrant chamber of commerce, has

created a community which is a prime place for investment and business success.

As one of the growth concentration areas identified by the GVRD, the future of

Coquitlam is bright.

In order to reach proposed GVRD growth targets, Coquitlam has

identified high-technology, home-based business, film and television production,

and tourism as potential high-growth employment sectors.

The two main economic areas in my constituency are Austin Heights

and Maillardville. Austin Heights, where my constituency office is located,

features a wide range of small business. These include medical and dental

offices, grocery stores and restaurants.

Recently, the merchants have formed a business improvement

association, and I am delighted to be working with this group. As a former small

business owner myself, I know the value of a BIA in enhancing the appearance and

the viability of a neighbourhood shopping area.

Maillardville, the French village in my constituency, is

undergoing commercial and cultural revitalization thanks to the hard work of the

Maillardville merchants association and the city of Coquitlam. Shoppers from all

over B.C. are drawn to this area, to Ikea and the other big-box retailers.

Since 1991 Coquitlam has added over 15,000 jobs and has created a

community that is most definitely becoming a place where people are choosing to

live, work and play.

CHILD CARE IN B.C.

D. MacKay: May is national Child Care Month. I would like

to take this opportunity to thank child care providers for their hard work and

dedication to children. As a grandfather, I am aware of the challenges of

raising children. Child care providers deserve our recognition and thanks.

We have heard from many B.C. families about the need for more

child care spaces. As government we are committed to building more child care

spaces throughout the province. In 2005-2006 we invested over $14 million to

create more than 1,400 new spaces. Those 1,400 spaces are spread around B.C. —

286 in the Fraser region, 294 in the interior, 190 in the north, 355 in

Vancouver coastal and 318 on Vancouver Island.

[1405]

As you probably already know, on April 1, 2007, the federal

government cancelled the 2005 early learning and child care agreement, which

represents a loss of $455 million over the next three years. However, in the

March federal budget they announced $250 million annually for space creation

across Canada. B.C.'s share will be almost $33 million a year. This is far short

of the $152 million that we would have got under the previous early learning and

child care agreement. That having been said, we are committed to the best use of

those funds to build our child care system in a sustainable way.

As government we are committed to providing child care in order

that families can choose from a range of affordable, safe, quality child care

options. Child care providers spend days enriching and caring for those children

whose family needs the peace of mind of knowing that their children are cared

for while they are at work. For all that, we say thank you to the child care

providers in British Columbia.

Oral Questions

PLAN FOR COAL-FIRED PLANT IN

PRINCE GEORGE AREA

C. James: In February the Premier made a commitment to

British Columbians. He said no to traditional coal-fired projects. But over the

weekend we learned that no is just a lot of hot air. A proposed coal-

[ Page 8232 ]

fired project north of Prince George could add one full percent to British

Columbia's greenhouse gas emissions. The Ministry of Energy staff have said

there's no policy against it.

My question is to the Premier. Is this another climate change

flip-flop, or is it just exposing how weak his commitments truly are?

Hon. G. Campbell: I can tell the opposition that this

government is committed to a 33-percent reduction in greenhouse gases.

We have set the course of action for the province, indeed

including coal-fired electrical plants. One of the issues that we have been

recognized for across the country is the new technology, the new clean coal

technology that we're bringing to bear.

We will continue to do that, but this should be very clear to the

opposition leader. Our commitment to a 33-percent reduction is firm. We will

have targets in place for 2012, 2016. We will work with every sector of the

economy, and British Columbia will lead the country.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental.

C. James: The only record that's being set here is the

record on how quick it took to break the climate change commitment that was made

by this Premier. The throne speech was clear that any coal-fired projects would

require 100-percent carbon sequestration, but now the government is already

waffling on that commitment.

The member for Prince George–Omineca said he supports the project.

The Minister of Agriculture has admitted that the project will definitely

increase emissions. Staff within the Ministry of Energy say that the Premier's

coal sequestration policy only applies to electrical projects. New industrial

projects are still free to burn dirty coal.

My question again to the Premier: how can British Columbians trust

him to deliver on any climate change commitment when it only took him three

months to break this promise?

Hon. G. Campbell: You know, the opposition leader is nobody

to talk about anything regarding climate change. There's a party where her own

member has said the NDP has no position on climate change. They don't know how

to deal with climate change, and they have shown that day in and day out with

their pronouncements.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. G. Campbell: On this side of the House we will deal

with climate change. We will have a 33-percent reduction in greenhouse gas

emissions. We will work with every sector of the economy, and we will continue

to build on not just clean energy but a clean economy for all British

Columbians.

[1410]

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further

supplemental.

C. James: It's unbelievable — to listen to this Premier

stand up and talk about his climate change commitments when he isn't saying no

to burning dirty coal. The Graymont lime plant is going to add a full percentage

point to B.C.'s greenhouse gas emissions — a full percentage point. It's going

to have a significant impact on air quality in the Prince George region.

We need the Premier to make his position clear. Yes or no — does

he support dirty coal burning in British Columbia?

Hon. G. Campbell: This government….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Premier, continue.

Hon. G. Campbell: Thank you to the member opposite.

Let me say that this government's position is unequivocal. There

will be a 33-percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in British Columbia.

It is very important, I think, for the opposition to understand

that the way to actually accomplish these goals is to lay out a plan, to work

with British Columbians, to work with every sector of the economy and to

actually let the processes that we currently have in place run their course.

So far, this has not even been a proposal that has gone through

the environmental assessment. This government will be bringing forth new air

quality standards, a new air plan and a new water plan. We have a greenhouse gas

reduction strategy which has been recognized across the continent.

S. Simpson: There's been climate change rhetoric in the

throne speech. There's climate change rhetoric in the energy plan. If the member

for Prince George–Omineca is to be believed, there is nothing behind that but

rhetoric.

Will the Premier tell us today, and will he tell Graymont, that

unless they're going to sequester 100 percent of the carbon, there will not be

coal-fired power in that plant? Yes or no — is he going to keep the commitment?

Hon. G. Campbell: This government has been very clear about

what our climate change strategy is. We've been very clear about our commitment

to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 33 percent, and I might point out that the

opposition has been very clear in voting against every single one of those

initiatives.

I would suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, that the opposition is

reflecting, indeed, the policy implications that we've seen mentioned by the

member for Nelson-

[ Page 8233 ]

Creston, who said: "Our party has no idea how to deal with climate change and

its implications for social principles."

Let me tell you this. This government does have an idea. We're

going to include British Columbians, we're going to include every sector of the

economy, and we're going to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 33 percent by

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

S. Simpson: The Premier's inability to say the word

"coal…." You would almost think this matter was before the courts.

The member for Prince George–Omineca said: "I hope that this

project gets underway. I know coal is used in many industries in the province,

so this isn't unusual." The staff for the Ministry of Energy said: "Burning coal

for a fuel source doesn't apply under the energy plan."

This is all contrary to the throne speech. If we have an open door

on the burning of coal in industry, then we will be adding millions and millions

of new CO 2 emissions in this province. This project alone — more than half a

million tonnes.

Is the 100-percent carbon sequestration a requirement for all

coal-fired power in British Columbia, including industry, or is the throne

speech commitment a fraud?

[1415]

Hon. G. Campbell: The opposition is doing what they

normally do. They're talking and asking questions before they have the facts.

As I pointed out before, this is in the environmental assessment

process at this point. No final decisions have been made. I think it's important

to recognize that when we set goals and objectives for the province, we want to

bring all sectors of the economy together as we meet those objectives. We intend

to do that. The Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, the Ministry

of Environment and the government itself will ensure that we are meeting our

target of a 33-percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2020.

R. Fleming: The question is quite simple: yes or no to

coal?

The Premier hasn't been forthcoming in telling members of this

House today what the answer is. So will he tell the Minister of Agriculture, who

has already been on the record saying that this project will proceed? Is he

going to tell the Minister of Agriculture that he is wrong and that the

government won't support the proposed coal-fired plant north of Prince George?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Hon. R. Neufeld: Again, we have an opposition coming to the

House with half-baked responses to something that's still out there, which is in

a process that still hasn't been determined yet.

The Premier was clear. There will be an air quality plan for

British Columbia that will deal with these issues. We have committed to reducing

greenhouse gases by 33 percent. We said full sequestration for generation of

electricity by coal.

That trumps anything that group did when they were in government.

Greenhouse gases rose by 24 percent under that group over there — under that

group. They had a plan to continue to increase greenhouse gases as long as they

were there. In fact, that's where most of the gas comes from. It's on that side

of the House.

We will meet our commitment of 33-percent reduction — guaranteed.

Just give us time to do it.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

CLOSING OF CANFOR MILL

IN MACKENZIE

C. Wyse: On May 22 Canfor gave the mayor of Mackenzie

one-hour notice — I repeat, one hour — prior to announcing the closure of their

milling and logging operations in that town. The mayor estimates that one in

three families in their community will be affected by this closure.

To the Minister of Community Services: what is the minister doing

to assist the people in Mackenzie with the immediate and long-term fallout from

this announcement by Canfor?

Hon. R. Coleman: I know there is one way of looking at an

issue like this, and that would be the issue of the critic and the members

opposite who would say: "The sky is falling, and nobody can work together to

solve the problem." Or you can try and find solutions during the period of time

while there are logs still in the yard.

The mill will continue operating till the end of August. We will

be sitting down with Canfor, and we will be working through some of their issues

to see if there are some long-term solutions for them.

Let's also remember one other thing with regards to these types of

issues. The dollar is up, and the price is down. The fact of the matter is that

the industry is facing a period of time where there are some challenges with

regards to pricing. But if the member would pay some attention to industry

analysts, he would know that there's a very, very bright future for forestry in

British Columbia.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

C. Wyse: Regardless of what we have just heard, the people

of Mackenzie still have the issue that is immediately facing them. For years

this government has been announcing that the pine beetle is devastating our

forests.

[1420]

For two years we have been asking the government to redesign the

community transition program so that

[ Page 8234 ]

there is a proactive program and not simply an effort to close the barn door

once all the horses have escaped.

Once more, my question is to the Minister of Community Services.

Why does this government not have a transition strategy in place now for the

many forest-dependent communities that will be getting phone calls just like the

mayor of Mackenzie got last week?

Hon. R. Coleman: To the member opposite: coming from a

forest-dependent community yourself, you should understand that there's a cycle

in any commodity. That cycle is here today. We're in a downward cycle. There is

going to be an upward cycle. You will see reinvestment in the forest.

I think the member opposite, though, goes a little bit too far

when he starts to question whether there's a plan around certain things, when in

the 1990s all you did was wait for weather to deal with the pine beetle

devastation….

Interjections.

Hon. R. Coleman: Oh, it really gets you upset when you

figure out that you were there at the front lines in 1993-94 and did nothing

about beetle. It should get you upset, because you sold out the people in the

interior of B.C.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

B. Simpson: I note that the minister has gone off on a rant

about the mountain pine beetle. The situation in Mackenzie has nothing to do

with the mountain pine beetle. That's a mill that's milling green wood.

The Minister of Agriculture and Lands has stated publicly that he

is sitting down with Canfor to negotiate something with Canfor to keep that mill

open. They want them to reassess the decision that the company has made.

My question is to the Minister of Agriculture and Lands. What is

he taking to the table? What is his negotiating position on behalf of the

province to keep that mill open in Mackenzie?

Hon. R. Coleman: I'm much prouder to have a Minister of

Agriculture and Lands who's a great MLA in Prince George North caring about his

communities and trying to find positive solutions than listen to the negative

solutions that didn't…. All we hear is negative solutions.

You bet we're going to sit down and try and work out issues with

Canfor. You bet we're going to try and work out situations as we come through

this cycle in forestry, because we believe in the future of forestry in British

Columbia, and we're not going to run around just being negative all the time.

Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental.

B. Simpson: Since 2001, 40-plus mills have closed in this

province. Since 2001 over 10,000 forest workers have lost their jobs in this

province. Canfor's announcement of the Mackenzie mill is an indefinite closure.

They're going to run their wood out. They also said in the announcement that

there's more to come. There's more to come on the coast; there's more to come in

the interior.

Yet we stood in this House and asked for help for Midway. We

didn't get it. We stood in the House and asked for help in the Queensborough

mill closure. We didn't get it. We stood in this House and asked for help for

Elk Falls, which is struggling to keep their doors open. We didn't get it.

My question is to the Premier. Is the new social contract for

forest-dependent communities in this province dependent upon whether or not they

have a minister who will stand up for that community? Where are the other

forest-dependent communities that are not getting help from either this minister

or from this Premier in the province?

Hon. R. Coleman: At least this government never sold out

the interior of B.C. on pine beetle like that group over there did. At least

this government can stand here and tell you that we didn't put out some phony

jobs and timber accord to produce 21,000 jobs that never worked for anybody in

the province of British Columbia.

At least this government, in spite of the member for North Island,

is prepared to celebrate that the Port Alice mill was reopened a year ago last

week. They celebrated their first anniversary of putting jobs on the north side

of Vancouver Island.

[1425]

At least this government is proud of the fact that there's

investment — over $240 million of capital investment alone in that member's home

community in British Columbia.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

CANADA LINE CONSTRUCTION

ON CAMBIE STREET

G. Robertson: Over 500 small businesses along the RAV line

corridor are being devastated by losses in revenue averaging over 40 percent.

That means well over $100 million in lost sales for those businesses over the

year of construction chaos in front of their stores. With more than one small

business a week closing down right now, the situation is dire.

The Premier said yesterday that there are "major efforts to try

and take care of it." Does the Premier honestly believe that the $1.5 million

marketing fund that he calls a major effort is fair to offset over $100 million

in lost sales to small business?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. K. Falcon: I'm always interested in the comments of

the member opposite. But you know, I also….

[ Page 8235 ]

Interjection.

Hon. K. Falcon: Well, sure, go ahead.

I also pay attention to people from that business community and

representatives from the Cambie Village Business Improvement Association. One of

them, Leonard Schein, had a few things to say. He pointed out, for example,

that….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. K. Falcon: Well, no, actually. I think it's kind of

interesting for the member. Schein said that in recent months ten new businesses

have opened their doors or have expressed their intention to locate, including a

new pharmacy, several new restaurants and a Capers Community Market. He goes on

to say: "But exaggerated statements related to recent business closures in this

area only serve to deter potential customers and hurt local businesses."

I actually agree with him, because the fact of the matter is that

this member is calling for a solution that would be quite unprecedented. No

level of government anywhere across Canada provides that kind of intervention.

Apparently, this member opposite believes we need to subsidize a bank, a

Safeway, a Superstore, a Starbucks and all of the other major big businesses

that these people always rail against — which that member always rails against.

Suddenly, he's calling for the provincial government to provide relief.

Well, that's not the answer. The fact of the matter is there's a

$1.5 million budget that TransLink has put together to help those folks, and

it's doing its job.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

G. Robertson: Well, only this minister would think that big

banks are small business.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

G. Robertson: Perhaps the minister hasn't seen the letter

of support from the Cambie Village Business Improvement Association in support

of compensation, as I have brought forward to the House. This Premier and this

minister think that the paltry $1.5 million to put up some billboards along the

line will cut it, and they're dead wrong.

This government's support for business only seems to apply to the

huge multinational construction companies that are digging up the city. We're

talking about hundreds of small businesses, thousands of employees losing their

livelihoods. We're talking about ripping up communities.

How can this Premier in good conscience say that he supports small

business in this province when he's undermining and abandoning over 500 to build

this subway project? Will the Premier stand up today and support real

compensation for the businesses devastated by the construction of the Cambie

line?

Hon. K. Falcon: Well, this is really rich. This is the same

opposition that voted against significant tax relief for small businesses each

and every year. This is the same opposition that opposed the 40-percent

reduction in unnecessary regulation that this government and this Premier put

through this House — the same opposition. I find this rather amazing.

[1430]

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, take your seat.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Continue, Minister.

Hon. K. Falcon: You know, it's so typical of this

opposition to just come up with knee-jerk responses to a situation like this

without thinking it through. The member says: "Who would think of a bank as big

business?" Well, I've got to inform the member that the businesses that he wants

to include for tax relief include Chevron. They include Safeway. They include

Best Buy. They include stores like Starbucks — all the big businesses that this

group are always railing against.

The fact of the matter is that TransLink is developing this

project. They've put into place $1.3 million of marketing dollars to go into

promoting business in that area.

We don't pretend there's not an impact, but the fact of the matter

is that there's no difference in the number of empty businesses today than there

was before this project started. It hasn't changed by one.

FRASER HEALTH AUTHORITY

SERVICE PLAN

A. Dix: My question is for the Minister of Health. The

chair of the Fraser Health Authority said it clearly in the service plan

presented to the Minister of Health: more clogged emergency rooms, more

cancelled surgeries, new user fees, essential programs deferred, cuts in home

support and huge financial risks as a direct result of this government's health

budget fiasco — not my words, but the words of the chair of the Fraser Health

Authority.

My question to the Minister of Health is: can he tell this

House when this indictment of his record and the record of the Premier will be

approved?

Hon. G. Abbott: Health care has never been better in the

Fraser Health Authority, never been better in the province of British Columbia.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

[ Page 8236 ]

Hon. G. Abbott: When we took office in 2001, the average

median wait time for surgeries in Fraser Health was six weeks. Today it's four

weeks. More surgeries — a record number of surgeries, in fact — in Fraser

Health. More diagnostic tests — in fact, 300 percent more MRIs than when we took

office in 2001. An over $500 million lift in the operational budget for Fraser

Health. Almost a billion dollars in new capital infrastructure investment since

2001 in Fraser Health.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

A. Dix: I know the minister is frustrated. I know he's

frustrated because finally the public got to see an unedited version of the

facts that he's been hiding for months. I know he's frustrated because not even

the people the Premier appoints to run the health authorities believe his

rhetoric anymore.

But imagine the frustration of Mary Lou Frye. Ms. Frye has had her

brain surgery cancelled six times, most recently on May 25 at Royal Columbian

Hospital — six times. And the minister said last week: "There's no surgery

crisis at Royal Columbian." Tell it to Mary Lou Frye and her family.

Why is the minister stuck in denial on the crisis in the

Fraser Health Authority, and why does the Fraser Health service plan — on page

55, to help the minister — indefinitely postpone an increase in ICU beds at

Royal Columbian Hospital?

Hon. G. Abbott: As I've said a number of times in this

House before, we always regret when elective surgeries are postponed because

they have lost their precedence to urgent or life-saving cases. That almost

invariably is the case, particularly in busy trauma centres like Royal Columbian

Hospital. There are periodically occasions when there will be a rash of serious

injuries or illnesses that have to be given precedence within the surgical

slate.

[1435]

I know that does happen. We regret when that does happen. I think

that everyone — even the members opposite, I'm sure — would agree that if there

is an urgent, emergent, life-saving procedure that is required, it should take

the highest precedence within the surgical slate.

EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES AT

NANAIMO SENIORS VILLAGE

L. Krog: The Minister of Health is well aware of what's

happening at Nanaimo Seniors Village. These workers have been hired and fired

more often in a shorter period of time than any other workers in the history of

the province. They provide valuable care for vulnerable seniors, who rely on

that care. The fact that these people are being fired is a direct result of this

government's failed policies in Bill 29.

My question to the Minister of Health is very simple. How can

seniors at the Nanaimo Seniors Village get the support they need when policies

brought in by this government mean that the hard-working staff who care for them

keep getting fired over and over again?

Hon. G. Abbott: Nanaimo Seniors Village is a privately

owned residential care facility. It is neither owned nor operated by the

Vancouver Island Health Authority.

As I said in response to previous questions in this House in

relation to this matter, if there are disputes that are arising with respect to

payment for services or the way in which the contract has been managed, the

appropriate remedy for those kinds of issues is the Labour Relations Board or

the employment standards branch. The member well knows that, and I'm sure that

the unions representing those officials will make good use of those offices.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Hon. R. Thorpe: I have the honour to present the B.C.

Assessment annual service plan report for 2006 and the audited financial

statements for the period ended December 31, 2006.

Reports from Committees

R. Fleming: I have the honour to present the report of the

Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts on the appointment of an Auditor

General.

I move that the report be taken as read and received.

Motion approved.

R. Fleming: I ask leave of the House to suspend the rules

to permit the moving of a motion to adopt the report.

Leave granted.

R. Fleming: I move that the report be adopted. In doing so,

I would like to note that this report constitutes the committee's unanimous

recommendation for the appointment of an Auditor General.

Members of this House will know that this committee has been

working at this task of naming our province's next Auditor General for well on

18 months under two distinct searches. Our committee received interest in the

position from talented persons from across Canada and internationally. The

reputation of the office and the importance of the work it does for B.C.

attracted widespread interest.

While the process has not been easy, I can assure all 79 members

of this House and the citizens of British Columbia that the extensive

deliberations and rigorous selection process have resulted in our recommendation

of an outstanding person for the position of Auditor General.

In making the recommendation as Chair of the Public Accounts

Committee, I know I speak on behalf of the committee when I say how conscious we

are of

[ Page 8237 ]

the importance of the position of Auditor General to the citizens of British

Columbia and to this Legislature. The confidence of all British Columbians in

its government institutions is enhanced by having independent oversight and

assurance that the public sector is run efficiently and in accordance with the

best accounting and public administration practices.

If confirmed today, British Columbia will have its fourth Auditor

General since 1976. Previous Auditors General include Erma Morrison, George

Morfitt and Wayne Strelioff. We have also had two acting Auditors General in

modern times, Mr. Bob Hayward in the late 1980s and of course, for the past 11

months, Mr. Arn van Iersel.

I'd like to thank all the members of the Public Accounts Committee

for their hard work at this task and in particular my two Deputy Chairs of the

committee, the member for Richmond-Steveston and the member for West

Vancouver–Garibaldi. With that, I move adoption of the report.

[1440]

J. McIntyre: I'd just like to add my sincere thanks to

staff, to the Chair — the member for Victoria-Hillside — to our search

subcommittee comprising members from Prince George–Omineca, Langley and Surrey-Whalley

as well as to the entire Public Accounts Committee for coming together to make a

unanimous recommendation for B.C.'s fourth and next Auditor General.

The gentleman who will, hopefully, be appointed has a very

impressive resumé and solid practical experience in his current position. He has

also held a series of senior academic positions as well as positions as CFO in

major organizations throughout a distinguished career. I'm looking forward to

the positive contribution he will no doubt make here to government in British

Columbia based on the breadth and depth of his experience.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank Arn van Iersel, the

acting Auditor General, for his service over the past year. His last day is

Thursday, May 31. He's served in this position with dignity and distinction over

a challenging year, and I think his efforts and long public service career here

in B.C. should be acknowledged by the House.

Motion approved.

R. Fleming: I ask leave of the House to permit the moving

of a motion to appoint Mr. John Doyle as the Auditor General of the province of

British Columbia.

Leave granted.

Motions without Notice

APPOINTMENT OF AUDITOR GENERAL

R. Fleming: I move:

[That the Legislative Assembly appoint Mr. John Doyle as the Auditor

General for the Province of British Columbia pursuant to the Auditor General

Act (SBC 2003 c. 2).]

Motion approved.

C. James: I seek leave to present a petition, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

Petitions

C. James: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

M. Farnworth: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

A. Dix: I rise to present a petition on behalf of more than

1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to protect consumers

from gas price gouging.

B. Ralston: I, too, rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

M. Sather: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

G. Gentner: I'm in line now. I rise to present a petition

on behalf of approximately 1,000 or possibly more British Columbians asking the

House to take action to protect consumers from gas price gouging.

L. Krog: I, likewise, rise to present a petition on behalf

of approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking this House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

M. Karagianis: I also rise to present a petition with

approximately 1,000 names of British Columbians asking this House to take action

to protect consumers from gas price gouging.

C. Wyse: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

G. Coons: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately — it's rounded — 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take

action to protect consumers from gas price gouging.

C. Puchmayr: I have in my hand about 1,000 names. I rise to

present this petition to the House to protect consumers from price gouging.

N. Simons: I didn't get as many as everyone else. I believe

it's slightly under 1,000 signatures in this

[ Page 8238 ]

petition, which is asking the government to protect all of them — whether

they're 999, fewer or more than 1,000, as the case may be — from the price

gouging.

[1445]

N. Macdonald: I, too, rise to present a petition on behalf

of or in the range of 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action

to protect consumers from gas price gouging.

R. Chouhan: I rise to present a petition on behalf of 1,732

British Columbians asking the House to take action to protect consumers from gas

price gouging.

H. Bains: I rise to hand in a petition on behalf of over

1,300 British Columbians asking this House to take action to protect consumers

from gas price gouging.

J. Brar: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

approximately 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action to

protect consumers from gas price gouging.

R. Fleming: I rise to present a petition on behalf of

nearly 1,000 British Columbians asking the House to take action on gas price

gouging.

J. Horgan: I rise to table 1,100 signatures, making a total

today on this side of the House of 18,646 signatures, on behalf of Jon McComb,

The World Today and Fight Back Fridays calling on this House to do

something about gas price gouging.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. de Jong: I call Committee of Supply. For the

information of members, in this chamber we will be discussing the estimates of

the Premier's office and in Committee A, the estimates of the Ministry of

Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Hawkins in the

chair.

The committee met at 2:49 p.m.

On Vote 10: Office of the Premier, $13,771,000 .

Hon. G. Campbell: As we start today, I'd like to introduce

my Deputy Minister to the Premier, Jessica McDonald; Deputy Minister of

Strategic Policy Dana Hayden; and Michelle Leamy.

I'd like to make a few opening remarks, if I can, to highlight

some of the things we've accomplished in the last year. I think it's important

for us to recognize that the government tries to lay out its plans and proposals

for the year ahead. We want to make sure that we have an opportunity for people

in British Columbia to see what we're trying to accomplish, and this is an

opportunity for us to review some of those things.

[1450]

It's also an opportunity for the official opposition to firmly and

definitively present some of their positions on the issues of importance of the

day. This obviously is an opportunity for us to discuss what we manage to

accomplish as a government, but it's also an opportunity for the Leader of the

Opposition to lay out some of her specific goals and objectives for the

province.

The provincial government has established five great goals for the

province: to make B.C. the best-educated, most literate jurisdiction on the

continent; to lead the way in North America in physical fitness and in healthy

living; to build the best system of support in Canada for persons with

disabilities, special needs, children at risk and seniors; to lead the world in

sustainable environmental management with the best air and water quality and

best fisheries management, bar none; and to create more jobs per capita than

anywhere else in Canada.

To get there, we established the Pacific leadership agenda, which

we wanted to highlight some of the specific areas where government would focus

its attention and shift some of the resources that have been there in the past

to meet the needs we face. Number one under the Pacific leadership agenda is to

lead Canada in partnership with first nations.

We want to tackle the challenges of global warming and growing

urban sprawl, to increase affordable housing options, to reduce homelessness and

to help those who can't help themselves. It's important for us to include

quality, choice and accountability in our two most critical public services,

education and health care. And we want to open up Canada's Pacific gateway and

strengthen our economic competitiveness.

Since last we did estimates, one year ago, we've made significant

steps forward on these issues and supported these goals and priorities. For

example, we have continued in British Columbia to watch as our economy performed

and outperformed many of its national counterparts. I'd like to read a quote

from the Conference Board of Canada's Provincial Outlook , released this

spring: "The British Columbia economy has turned into a job creation machine. In

the last year British Columbians have created 58,000 new jobs."

In fact, there are 355,000 more jobs in British Columbia than

there were in December of 2001. We're experiencing record-low unemployment — 4.4

percent today. And last March it reached the lowest level ever of 3.9 percent.

Single-digit unemployment has now occurred in every region of this province for

the last 24 months. Youth unemployment is at 7.9 percent, compared to 13.9

percent in 2001. Unemployment for women is at 4.7 percent, versus 6.8 percent in

We all, I think, should have some confidence in the fact that this

economy is expanding beyond the traditional southwest corner of the province to

touch all regions of our province. The rural economy is sharing the benefits;

105,000 more people are working in regions of B.C. outside the southwest region

than there

[ Page 8239 ]

were in 2001. There are 400 major projects planned or underway in regions

outside the southwest corner of B.C., and they're valued at over $70 billion.

Last year we watched as mineral exploration increased to a record

high of $265 million. Last week we heard the announcement of a new Galore Creek

deposit project with Teck Cominco that will create a thousand construction jobs

in the northwest of this province and 500 full-time jobs in operation. This is a

mining industry that's come back to British Columbia.

Last year, about this time, we signed the trade, investment and

labour mobility agreement. It is an important agreement between British Columbia

and Alberta which establishes the second-largest economic union in the country —

almost 30 percent larger than the province of Quebec — generating an additional

$4.8 billion in economic activity and an estimated 78,000 new jobs.

In fact, I think it's important for everyone to recognize that our

goal is to expand TILMA's reach across the country. It's time for Canadians to

stop dividing themselves up and fracturing our opportunities, which undermines

our economy and in fact holds Canadians back in every single region of this

country.

We've also watched as we have continued to balance the budget,

continued to drive budget surpluses. And I think it's important to note that the

strong fiscal management of this government has been recognized when Moody's

gave the government a triple-A credit rating, when Standard and Poor's gave the

government a triple-A credit rating and when the Dominion Bond service gave us a

double-A-positive credit rating. In fact, I think it's fair to say that British

Columbia is now recognized as a financial and economic leader in our country,

and that's something we can all take some pride in.

[1455]

Since 2001 we have seen 68 tax reductions. Today someone who is

earning $108,000 or less in income is paying the lowest personal income tax

rates in Canada, and 250,000 of the lowest-income earners in British Columbia

pay no taxes whatsoever in terms of income tax. In fact, most British Columbians

are paying between 30 and 70 percent less in income tax.

As we look to the future, we see real opportunities in the

Asia-Pacific Initiative. We intend to advance British Columbia's global identity

as Canada's Pacific gateway; to continue to build a world-class international

infrastructure and supply chain; to strengthen and maximize B.C.'s trade and

investment relationships with Asia; to become an Asia-Pacific education, tourism

and cultural destination; and to ensure the province's labour force is equipped

with the skills to thrive in this Pacific century.

The gateway transportation plan will create huge opportunities for

people all over this province and indeed across the country. It will result in

$8 billion in saved time and costs for consumers. It will create 17,000 years of

direct employment and $1.7 billion of gross provincial product.

All of those initiatives are critical, and I think it's important

to note that they follow the largest consultation process with the public in

British Columbia's history — 10,000 participants, over 120 meetings and 40 open

houses. With it come significant environmental benefits. Reduced idling and

travel times combined with new vehicle standards will result in a 30-percent CO 2

reduction.

The Canada line will result in a reduction of 14,000 tonnes of

greenhouse gas emissions by 2020. With this project we are doing the single

largest investment in cycling infrastructure in the province's history. It will

enable transit across the Port Mann corridor to service the Fraser Valley. All

of these are critical to our long-term goals and objectives.

It would be important, I think, for British Columbians to hear how

the opposition feels about the Gateway project. It was launched one and a half

years ago. It has had significant and, I think, positive public support. It is a

critical component of our economy strengthening and, in fact, of Canada's

economy opening up to this Pacific century.

We've also seen significant improvements in education with the

strong economy. We know today that we face a shortage of up to 350,000 workers

just 12 years away. We are taking many steps to try and fill the gaps that are

necessary in terms of skills and development and training.

We're expanding the number of university and trade spaces across

the province. Indeed, since 2001 we've seen 17,668 student spaces added to

British Columbia's advanced education network. We're committed to 2,500 new

graduate and 7,000 new apprenticeship spaces by 2010. We're spending $2 billion

on post-secondary education in 2006-2007, and we expect that to expand to $2.34

billion by 2009-2010.

We're putting more resources into skilled workers, and through the

provincial nominee program we've watched as over 2,500 workers have been

accepted since 2001. Just to put that in context, that's in comparison to six

workers that were approved under the provincial nominee program just in 2001.

In the past year British Columbia has negotiated significant new

funding from the federal government, and $138.72 million over two years will be

provided in federal transfers, which will help British Columbia enhance

successful existing services and add new areas of service to support both

immigrants and B.C. communities. I do think it's important to note how important

immigrants have been to British Columbia's economy, not just in the past but

today. Today we watch as the business investment category has resulted in $383

million in new investment and the creation of over 1,400 new jobs.

In K-to-12, spending is at an all-time high of $5.5 billion a

year. Per-pupil funding is at $7,596, up 22 percent over the year 2000 levels. I

think it's important to note that this investment in K-to-12 education has

continued to increase in spite of dramatic reductions in student enrolment.

[1500]

New legislation will measure student achievement, and it will

ensure that all of our education systems are working in concert to make sure

that young people in

[ Page 8240 ]

British Columbia can achieve the best possible results for themselves and for

their future.

A strong economy also allows us to provide for some of the most

precious resources and services that we have. In British Columbia we have now

got a housing budget that is almost triple the budget of 2000 — $328 million.

We've built and committed to build 13,000 new housing units since 2001,

including the recent commitment to create almost a thousand units of supportive

housing, including units purchased — 15 buildings purchased in Vancouver,

Victoria and Burnaby.

There is a $250 million housing endowment fund to support

innovative housing solutions. More than 20,000 low-income families are now

eligible to receive rent supplement programs. That will provide families of four

with, potentially, more than $500 a month in assistance for their housing needs.

We've increased income assistance and support for those most in

need. Increases in the budget in 2007 resulted in the highest shelter rates in

Canada for singles, couples and single parents; the second-highest total rate

for employable singles, an increase of 20 percent; and increased rates for

families with kids between $97 and up to $200 a month in terms of support for

them.

We've added 20,000 people to disability designation. They now

receive the third-highest rate in Canada — $906 plus $500 maximum earning

exemptions — here in British Columbia.

British Columbians have said to us quite clearly that they want to

have a sustainable health care system. Health expenditures have increased almost

60 percent since 2000 — four times the rate of inflation, seven times population

growth. At the same time, demand is increasing.

The challenges of an aging population are there for all of us to

deal with, and I am hopeful that we can deal with them in concert, because over

the next 25 years, as we move towards 2030, we are going to see a near doubling

of the number of people over 65. We're expecting a near doubling of problem

diseases such as diabetes and dementias. This will require all of us to provide

the best possible solutions for the future so that we maintain and improve not

just our health services but also the other critical services that British

Columbians depend upon.

As we look to the future, I think it's important to underline the

importance of the Conversation on Health. There have been 15 forums held over

the last year. There have been over 6,000 registrants in those forums. We've

received thousands of phone calls, thousands of e-mails, and indeed, we've

received millions of hits to the website. This is a critical part of what the

province is trying to do as we look to the future and join with British

Columbians in securing our public health care system to meet the needs of people

in every part of this province.

We've also established for ourselves a critical priority of

dealing with the issue of climate change. The province will aim to reduce

greenhouse gas emissions by at least 33 percent below the current levels by

2020. That target will place emissions 10 percent under the 1990 levels.

The province will work with the federal government and with our

Pacific partners to develop sensible and efficient systems to register trade and

to purchase carbon offsets and credits. We have just launched that program with

the cabinet committee. We are looking forward, again, to working with all of the

people of British Columbia and all sectors of the economy as we move ahead.

The B.C. energy plan, which was launched in February of this year,

sets a target of a 50-percent reduction in B.C. Hydro's incremental resources

through conservation by 2020. This, too, will require each of us to make a

commitment personally and institutionally as well as by the government to try

and encourage those activities to take place.

In April of this year the government joined the western regional

climate initiative with Washington, California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico

to ensure that we create an evaluative and implemented plan that will ensure

that we can reduce greenhouse gases in the Pacific region of the continent.

Together we'll develop market-based and multisectoral mechanisms to help achieve

that goal.

In April of this year we allocated $45 million for the $89 million

federal-provincial hydrogen highway project, which will take a hydrogen highway

from Whistler to Vancouver and Surrey and from Surrey to Victoria.

On May 23 we joined 30 U.S. states, a U.S. Indian tribe and the

province of Manitoba in joining the climate registry. The registry will act as a

first step in accurately measuring greenhouse gas emissions and will help us to

track reductions.

[1505]

We are working with communities to create sustainable long-term

communities and to fight the challenge of urban sprawl. LocalMotion provides us

with a real opportunity to help redesign communities to reduce the dependence on

the automobile and to ensure that in those designs we give people the

opportunity to pursue healthy lifestyles.

The Talents for Tomorrow program is focused specifically on small

communities in British Columbia of less than 5,000 people. It is a critically

important component of what we are trying to do as we move ahead in the province

and continue to show leadership.

With regard to first nations, I think all British Columbians

should take real comfort in the direction and the leadership that we've seen,

not just from the First Nations Leadership Council but from many first nations

communities across this province. We have now concluded 127 first nations

forestry agreements, totalling 24.4 million cubic metres of wood and valued at

over $160 million in revenues. Final agreements with the Maa-nulth and

Tsawwassen First Nations are pending ratification. There are four additional

AIPs which have been signed.

In the last year we've come to agreements with the Kwadacha and

the Tsek'ene bands, which in fact start to address the impacts of flooding from

the Williston reservoir on first nations in the Peace River Valley. In April we

achieved four long-term agreements with the

[ Page 8241 ]

Blueberry River First Nations in the northeast part of the province to

support economic certainty both for the resource industry and the Blueberry

River First Nations.

In November we initialled an agreement with the Esquimalt and

Songhees First Nations, which they have subsequently ratified, which deals with

the parcel of land that our Legislature in British Columbia is currently

situated on.

It would be interesting to hear what the opposition's position is

with regard to the treaties. There has been some confusion created by members

opposite with regard to whether they support those treaties or don't. I can tell

you that I believe these treaties are of critical importance to the future of

British Columbia, as is the new relationship and the new relationship trust for

economic development, as is the new first nations health care plan that we have

in place currently. This health care plan allows us to find ways, under the

leadership of first nations, to close the gap between first nations and

non–first nations people.

We have a new aboriginal health officer in the provincial

government now for the first time ever. There are specific components of the

ActNow program which are aimed directly at first nations. There's an MOU with

the federal government and the leadership council to support health promotion,

improve quality and track aboriginal health outcomes.

The first nations education agreement that we signed, a $65

million aboriginal post-secondary strategy, will be of critical importance to

first nations across this province as they build the kind of future and

opportunities that they desire. We've also now signed 33 aboriginal enhancement

agreements with our school boards to make sure that aboriginal children and

culture and history are properly reflected in the goals and objectives of our

public education system.

Finally, a new protocol on education with the federal government

and the First Nations Education Steering Committee will enhance aboriginal

completion and achievements as we move into the future in this province. I do

think it's something that all British Columbians should take great pride in.

First nations are working very closely with communities and with service

providers across the province. They're working closely across the province, and

I think there is a real opportunity to improve the quality of young first

nations lives in every single region of this province.

Of course, since we last dealt with Premier's estimates, we've had

the opportunity to complete a number of public sector service agreements. Those

agreements are touching literally thousands of public servants across the

province. We were successful in concluding the first negotiated settlement with

the B.C. Teachers Federation, for the first time since provincewide bargaining

was brought in place.

I think that all British Columbians are going to be extremely well

served by the stability and the confidence that the public service and the

government have as we work to ensure that British Columbia's public service is

recognized across the country as one of the premiere employers and one of the

premiere leaders in terms of public service development in British Columbia.

We launched in the fall a corporate human resources plan targeted

at making British Columbia's public service a more competitive employer. As you

know, we're going to see dramatic changes in a number of employees getting older

and leaving the workforce, so we want to be sure that we're encouraging younger

people to come into British Columbia. As we've watched, we have seen some

positive results from the initiatives that we've undertaken.

[1510]

The Pacific leaders program provides scholarships for public

service employees to support their career development and learning. Scholarships

for their children — up to 60 $2,500 scholarships each year, graduate

fellowships to attract leading researchers to public service careers and

forgiveness of B.C. student loans for employees who work in the public service

for at least three years are all part of that.

Last week we signed the first agreement between CUSO, the Canadian

University Service Overseas, and a provincial public service to provide

continued benefits and coverage for employees who volunteer to serve overseas

with CUSO. They will have a job when they decide to return to British Columbia.

The new recruitment program has managed to attract 2,100 new

employees under 30 years of age. That's more than five times the number the year

before, and that's very encouraging, I think, for the public service and for all

of us in British Columbia.

On May 28, today, we announced a new aboriginal intern program to

encourage aboriginal youth to consider careers in the public service.

All of that will serve to meet the needs of British Columbia as we

look out to the years ahead. I think it's important to reflect on the important

contributions that our public service has made to enhancing our quality of life

over the last number of years.

Obviously, as we look to the next few years, we see the

opportunities of the Olympic dream coming forward. It's an opportunity not just

to inspire young people in academia, in athletics and the arts, but it's an

opportunity for our communities to show off to the international community as we

welcome our international visitors and the international media who will come and

be part of the Olympics. Sometimes when you're successful at achieving a bid

like the Olympics, it's easy to lose track of the enormous benefits that will

come with that.

Domestic sponsorships, which were anticipated earlier to be $450

million, are already up and moving towards $750 million. The Olympics and the

Paralympics are expected to create between $6 billion and $10 billion in

economic activity, 200,000 person-years of employment, $2.5 billion of

incremental tax revenue. The 2010 Commerce Centre provides B.C. businesses with

an opportunity to access $4 billion in international business, and I know

already many are taking advantage of that.

[ Page 8242 ]

In conclusion, let me say that I think that the province of

British Columbia and the people of British Columbia have taken up the

significant challenges of change which we confront. We confront changes in terms

of an aging demographic. We confront changes in terms of the changing economies

that we face. We confront the changes that are clearly in front of us with

regard to the environment.

I think that the people of British Columbia should be

congratulated for the commitment and the leadership they've shown as we meet

those challenges by creating a strong economy, a better education system, a

better health care system and an even stronger social cohesion between first

nations and non–first nations in this great province.

C. James: Before I start inquiring into the Premier's

budget and the specifics in that budget, I'd also like to make some opening

remarks. My opening remarks will focus on an opportunity that the Premier has

during this estimates process — an opportunity that I hope he will take — to

answer questions that the public would like to know about, questions that we

have not heard answers from government on. I'd like to take a few minutes, as

well, to talk a little bit about the attitude that I've seen from this

government over the last couple of years and some changes that I think are

important.

As you know, we're working under a fixed legislative calendar,

which is an innovation that I certainly support. But what we've learned is that

under that fixed legislative calendar, it requires more than simply the

calendar. It requires respect. It requires respect for this House, respect from

government for this House. That has not been the case under this administration.

We've seen the fixed calendar abused to force time allocation on

important bills, which is closure by any other means. We've seen an entire

session cancelled at the whim of the Premier. At the time I remember clearly the

House Leader calling the work we do in this chamber busywork. That shows an

attitude that needs to change.

[1515]

Certainly, the fixed legislative calendar has had no effect on the

government's willingness to provide timely and relevant information to the

public. We've seen that sad fact on display, in particular, for the last three

months.

We've seen serious questions raised about B.C. Liberal corruption,

about political dirty tricks from the Premier's office. We've seen serious

questions raised about violations of the lobby registry act, untendered

contracts for friends and insiders. We've seen conflict-of-interest issues be

dismissed and ignored, in fact, for the entire session.

This estimates debate is an opportunity, as I said at the start,

for the Premier to come clean — for the Premier to actually answer those

questions that the public has been asking. If we simply continue the

stonewalling tactics that we've seen and that we've become accustomed to in

question period, then this entire process will be a farce. It'll be unfortunate

for the democratic process if that occurs.

As we know, the Premier has commented extensively on openness and

democratic accountability — in fact, enough to fill an entire book of quotes —

so people can judge for themselves the standard that he's set. I'd like to read

a few of those quotes from the Premier. "Open government is the hallmark of free

and democratic societies. Secrecy feeds distrust and dishonesty. Openness builds

trust and integrity." That was the Premier in 1998, when he led the opposition.

He then went on to say: "The fundamental principle must be this:

government information belongs to the people, not to government." He also

promised British Columbians: "We will bring in the most open and accountable

government in Canada. I know some people say we'll soon forget about that, but I

promise we won't." Later as Premier he told this House: "We think that openness

beats hiddenness every time. We want to be sure that people can see what's

taking place."

Well, I couldn't agree more. The public expects that of us,

expects that of all of its elected officials. It expects us to state our

commitment to these principles. As we've seen, the Premier has never been shy

about doing that, but the public expects more than simply words. The public

expects that those words will have meaning and real action when it comes to

government — that we'll actually follow through on our commitments in concrete

and practical ways. That's where the Premier is falling far short of any of

those words and promises.

In countless numbers of big and small decisions under his

direction, secrecy has supplanted openness. Whether it's dramatic cuts to the

freedom-of-information office, whether it's exempting B.C. Ferries from the FOI

Act, whether it's increasing waits and fees for basic information — and we'll

get into more specifics of this as we get into a

section around FOI and the

Premier's office — what we've clearly seen under this Premier's leadership is

that the government has moved decision-making further and further into the

shadows. There's a culture of secrecy that permeates all of government, and it

starts at the top.

This is a fact that isn't lost on the Premier, because back in May

1999 he told the House: "The Premier must lead by example. His office must lead

by example." I'm sad to say that when it comes to secrecy, this Premier

certainly has led by example. He's met a ton of questions that have come his way

about improper activities in his office by stonewalling, by refusing to answer,

by hiding behind a court case — questions on everything from fake phone calls to

phony protests to high-level B.C. Liberal political interference in a police

investigation.

[1520]

The Premier has contracted out an investigation into the

activities of a top deputy minister to a private firm only answerable to him,

the client. He's used his office to clear close associates of wrongdoing without

any public disclosure of the evidence. The Premier's strategy in handling these

questions seems to be: "Trust me. I don't have to answer your questions. Just

trust me." Well, that makes a mockery of democracy and a mockery of his promises

and his earlier words. That certainly is something that he never would have

[ Page 8243 ]

accepted when he was Leader of the Opposition, but sitting on that side of

the House and having the power that the public has entrusted in him has

apparently changed the Premier's outlook.

Over the course of this debate the Premier has an opportunity, as

I said at the start, to answer that criticism, to show the public that his

promise to be open and accountable was more than simply words on a paper. If he

does, this will be a very interesting debate. It will be an interesting couple

of days around estimates. If the Premier sticks to his stonewalling as he's

done, it's going to be a very long debate.

Whatever the Premier chooses, it's my job to ask the questions. I

want to assure you that I'm going to ask those questions in a respectful manner

and in a way that takes into account the fact that many of this government's

actions are before the courts. But I will not let that be a hiding place for the

Premier.

The Premier is asking for millions of dollars to run his office,

and he's not going to get a blank cheque. To get that money, he has to be

accountable for his actions, the actions of his government and the actions of

his staff. The public will judge how forthcoming he's being.

So I'm going to get into the activities of the Premier's office

and start with staff, but before I do that there are a couple of specific

questions that I just want to get the Premier on record on.

The first one is a question that I shouldn't have to ask, but I

do. My question to the Premier is: will there be a fall session as promised by

this government?

Hon. G. Campbell: I'm sort of surprised that the hon.

Leader of the Opposition doesn't recognize that those discussions will be had

between the House Leaders, and the government will make a decision at the time

as to whether or not we're going to proceed with the fall session.

I can tell you that we are hopeful that there will be two treaties

that will be ratified — or certainly one treaty that will be ratified — prior to

the fall session. Should that be the case, we definitely will be having a fall

session.

Maybe the Leader of the Opposition can tell us now whether she

will be open with British Columbians and be held to account and tell us whether

the opposition, in fact, will be supporting the treaties, because the treaties

that have been put forward are treaties that will be beneficial to the first

nations that are involved.

To be quite candid, they have resulted from a significant amount

of work done by first nations negotiators, federal negotiators and provincial

negotiators. They are in the ratification process now.

The best you could say is that the Leader of the Opposition has

been confused about whether she supports those treaties or doesn't support those

treaties. Members of her opposition have said they may or they may not. I think

it's important for first nations people to know: is the opposition going to be

there to support the first nations treaties that we have before us, and will

they support them upon ratification?

C. James: I'll ask the question again to the Premier: will

there be a fall session?

If the Premier is waiting to hear our response, our response has

been the same all along. It's yes to a fall session. We're ready for a fall

session. So my question, again, to the Premier is: is he saying that there will

only be a fall session if the treaties come forward for ratification?

[1525]

Hon. G. Campbell: As I said previously, the government will

continue to work on an agenda. There is a ratification vote that will be taking

place, and should there be a ratification of a treaty, then certainly there

would be a fall session. Pending that ratification, the government will decide

in due course whether or not there should be a fall session. That will be

following discussions with the Opposition House Leader.

C. James: There's no need to have conversations with the

House Leader from the opposition. We've already agreed that we want a fall

session. We expect that there will be a fall session. Continuing on, as there is

in a fixed legislative calendar, would be that we have a spring session and a

fall session. So our answer, if the Premier's waiting for it — I'll repeat — is

yes to a fall session.

My question, again, to the Premier then would be: is he saying

that if the treaties do not come forward for ratification, there will be no fall

session?

Hon. G. Campbell: I think the standing orders are quite

clear. They were brought in, in 2005, with the agreement of the opposition.

Should we decide there is business that requires to be done in the fall session,

it would be called back. If the ratification takes place, certainly we have

committed to the first nations that we would call the session back.

The Leader of the Opposition glibly says if we've heard something

from the House Leader, then that's fine. I can tell the Leader of the Opposition

that we've heard a number of things from both her and her House Leader, and they

are not always in sync.

It seems to me that one of the things that's important for us to

be clear about is that we will deal directly with the House Leader. If the

Leader of the Opposition would like to do something about that, that's fine.

But I can tell you that if that ratification comes forward, it

would be a very positive thing for all British Columbians. It would be

interesting to hear how the opposition feels about those treaties and whether

they will ratify them or not. I also think it should be very clear that we will

have a session in the fall if the government deems that it's required.

C. James: The only person who is confused here is the

Premier. There are a number of pieces of legislation that are not going to be

completed over the next four days, so my question to the Premier is: is he

saying, just so that we're clear and the public is clear, that government has

not made a decision yet about whether to have a fall session and has not made a

decision yet about whether to carry forward legislation that will not be

completed over the next four days?

[ Page 8244 ]

Hon. G. Campbell: The government's position is quite clear.

If there is a ratification of a treaty, then we would be back in the fall. If

there is not, then government will decide prior to the fall whether that's

necessary, in consultation with the Opposition House Leader.

I do think it's important that if the Leader of the Opposition is

concerned about the time it's taking, I'm sure the House Leaders can even today

discuss how we can expedite the passage of a number of bills. If the opposition

feels that some of the bills need to be passed right away, we'd be glad to do

that. I think that's an important part of this. We're willing to work with the….

Interjections.

The Chair: Order, Members.

[1530]

Hon. G. Campbell: Certainly the Government House Leader

would be willing to work with the Opposition House Leader to expedite the

passing of legislation the opposition feels is critical to pass that's on the

government's agenda. Otherwise, the answer stands. We have been very clear since

2005 that the fall session was there to meet urgent needs. At this point, I

can't give you the answer, other than the answer that I've already given.

C. James: Yes, of course, as the Premier knows, some of

those discussions take place between the House Leaders to look at managing the

time that is left in the legislative calendar. In those discussions, as I'm sure

the Premier knows, there are at least seven bills that have not been debated and

that would end at the end of this session and would be carried forward to a fall

session, we hope.

My question to the Premier is: is he willing to let those seven

bills go, or is he willing to commit today to a fall session to ensure that some

of that very important legislation gets debated?

The Chair: Member, I just want to advise: that question has

been asked and answered four times. This is the fifth time it's being asked, and

there is a rule on tedious and repetitious questions.

Interjection.

The Chair: Order, Member.

M. Farnworth: I'd just like to point out to the Chair that

while I understand where the Chair is coming from, the fact is that this is

estimates, and traditionally in the estimates debate there is a considerable

amount of latitude in terms of the questioning, the type of questioning and the

ability of the questioner to question the Premier. That's exactly how every

other ministry is dealt with, and I would ask that the Chair respect those

traditions of this House.

Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

The Chair: Members, I have heard the question four times.

I've heard the same answer four times. So it's a reminder to members about

tedious repetition.

C. James: Well, thank you, Madam Chair. Then I'll ask a

very specific question around the pieces of legislation left. Will the Premier,

then, say that he is willing to let the seven bills die on the order papers and

not bring them back in the fall session?

The Chair: Again, I would remind the members that the

necessity for legislation in matters involving legislation cannot be discussed

in the Committee of Supply.

C. James: Madam Chair, with respect, I'm not speaking about

the specific bills. I've been very clear about that. I'm speaking about the

legislative calendar and the time to debate the legislative calendar.

I believe my question is in order, and I'd like to ask the Premier

again whether he is willing to let the seven bills drop off the order paper if

he doesn't bring the House back in the fall.

The Chair: Members, again, the rule in this House has

always been clear. Only the administrative action of a department is open to

debate. This is the debate on the Office of the Premier, so any questions open

in that debate can be debated here.

C. James: , Thank you, Madam Chair. Then I will speak about

the agreement made between the two House Leaders, the two House Leaders'

discussion on the pieces left in this legislative calendar and the discussion

that the agreement was that the pieces would come forward in the fall and have

the legislation then debated in the fall.

My question to the Premier is: does he agree with the agreement

made between the two House Leaders that we would in fact be debating pieces of

legislation in the fall, or does he agree that they would fall off the order

paper and die?

[1535]

Hon. G. Campbell: I'm not aware of the agreement that has

purportedly been made between the House Leader for the opposition and the

Government House Leader. I will have an opportunity to discuss that.

I think it is important to note that for the legislative calendar

to be effective, it is not simply a matter of coming to the Premier's estimates

and saying: "How will the government deal with one bill or another?" We were

very clear when this new legislative calendar was brought in that the government

would make the decision as to whether or not there would be a fall sitting.

The opposition this year has decided to debate a number of issues

which they evidently decided were more important than some of the legislation

that was before them. In just about every case the estimates have

[ Page 8245 ]

been longer this year than they were in other years in terms of the

ministerial discussions. The sitting is in place. The opportunities are there

for the opposition to manage its time, as well as for the government to manage

our time.

We continue to be committed to doing that, but the sitting will

not be simply a question of saying that the government will allow the opposition

to make all of the decisions with regard to whether or not their bill is

considered. We brought in bills that we think are important. If the opposition

would like to pass them, we're certainly willing to work with the opposition to

see those bills successfully concluded. If that in fact does not take place, we

will have to consider how we will proceed in the future.

Our objective here is to get the province's business done. We

certainly want to engage the opposition in doing that, but in terms of whether

or not the fall session will take place, frankly, as I said, that will be the

government's decision. If indeed there is a ratification of a treaty, I would be

fairly certain that there would be a fall sitting. Otherwise, the government

will see how effective we are in dealing with legislation in this session, and

then we will make the appropriate decisions.

C. James: A question to the Premier, then. Does the Premier

agree that if bills aren't completed debate now and aren't completed debate in

the fall, they will die, and therefore, that will be a huge failure of the

government's legislative agenda?

[J. Nuraney in the chair.]

Hon. G. Campbell: If there is an agreement between House

Leaders, I am glad to ascertain whether that is the case or not. I don't

understand that it is the case.

In terms of the question that the hon. member made, as I said, the

government will decide what course of action is most appropriate for the fall.

If in fact there is not a session in the fall, we obviously will be establishing

a legislative agenda next year.

C. James: I guess that's the clear answer for the public,

then, from the Premier: that we may or may not have a session. The government

once again is going to make a decision and ignore the legislative calendar, and

it's up to the government whether they decide they want to answer questions.

I think it's unfortunate that we're in this situation once again,

and it speaks to the arrogance that I talked about earlier. As I said at the

start, I had wished that I didn't have to ask these questions and put them on

record. I would have hoped that it would have been something straightforward and

simple. A couple of other questions for the Premier, then, before we get into

specifics around staff in the office.

The Premier, as we know, is committed to having government do its

part to ensure that we have a fair trial in the Basi-Virk trial, with full

disclosure on the B.C. Rail corruption charges. Right now, as the Premier knows,

the court is considering significant disclosure applications which include

government documents that are not yet in the hands of the special prosecutor. In

court, the special prosecutor's assistant said it was hoped that government

would not seek to withhold documents using privilege arguments.

My question is to the Premier. Will the Premier commit to

releasing all the documents that are being sought by the court?

[1540]

Hon. G. Campbell: Since this issue first broke, I have said

that I believe it is essential that there be an independent, unfettered

investigation. There is a special prosecutor involved in this. The Premier's

office does not have a direct input into that, certainly not with this

government. It may have been different in previous governments, and the

opposition leader may know about that.

I can tell you this right now, hon. Chair. This Premier's office

is not involved directly in that. We will continue to follow the due process

which is required under our legal system, and we will continue to allow that

process to run its full course without interference from any of the elected

political leaders in the province.

C. James: I certainly would expect that the Premier's

office will be involved in deciding documents to go forward and not go forward.

We've heard discussion previously about cabinet confidentiality and other

questions that sometimes come up.

My question would be to the Premier. Will he commit to releasing

documents without invoking privilege?

Hon. G. Campbell: Again, I would go back and say that

obviously there are issues with regard to cabinet confidentiality that must be

and would be considered in these issues. Having said that, my goal and the

objective of the government throughout has been to proceed with an unfettered

and, frankly, independent process.

There's a special prosecutor in place, and I will not be involved

in those discussions. That has been delegated to the Deputy Attorney General,

and he will make those decisions as he sees fit.

[1545]

C. James: Just so I'm clear on how those decisions are

being made, I understand, as the Premier pointed out, that a special prosecutor

makes the decisions about documents to go. My question is around the Premier's

office making sure that the special prosecutor has all the documents. The

Premier said that that now is with the Deputy Attorney General, and they will

make the decisions.

Is the Premier's office, then, not withholding any documents but

handing them all over to the Deputy Attorney General so that the special

prosecutor has all the documents to make the decision?

Hon. G. Campbell: I do want the Leader of the Opposition to

understand what I've done here. In terms of the screening of cabinet documents,

all those

[ Page 8246 ]

documents will be available to the Deputy Attorney General. He will make the

decision vis-à-vis cabinet confidentiality or any of those issues in

consultation with the special prosecutor. He will make the decision without any

further consultation with me or anyone in the Premier's office.

C. James: I appreciate that clarification, but just a

question again around the privilege or, as you said, determining whether there's

cabinet confidentiality or otherwise. Does the Premier agree that preventing

document release through privilege is interference?

[1550]

Hon. G. Campbell: This is an important issue; there is no

question about that. I think it's important for the Leader of the Opposition to

understand that the government's only real direction with regard to this was,

from the outset, that it should be unfettered and independent — that we would

remain away from both the decisions with regard to whether or not a case should

proceed. Certainly, we don't intend to comment on what's taking place within the

court.

I have delegated the responsibility for screening of cabinet

documents in this particular case to the Deputy Attorney General. He will make

all of those decisions. He understands what the government's commitments have

been to the independence and to the unfettered nature of the investigation that

should take place.

He also has a responsibility to the institution he serves and to

the public. He will work directly with the special prosecutor and make those

decisions without consulting with me. It would be inappropriate for me to

determine, prior to those decisions being made, what they should be or to try

and characterize them in any manner whatsoever, so I won't do that.

I will be very clear. That will be a decision that will be made by

the Deputy Attorney General, and the Deputy Attorney General will make those

decisions without any consultation with the Premier's office.

C. James: Just so I'm clear then, did the Premier give very

clear instructions to the Deputy Attorney General, written or otherwise, to say

that he wanted documents to be released and that it was important for that

process to be non-political and for unfettered — as he used that word — access

to documents be available so that the court process could proceed in an open and

transparent way?

Hon. G. Campbell: Cabinet privilege actually comes from the

common law in British Columbia and in Canada. I think the critical thing is that

I did not provide instructions to the Deputy Attorney General. If I was going to

provide instructions to the Deputy Attorney General, that would actually

undermine the very principle that I'm trying to support here.

We have a professional public service. I think it's important for

the Leader of the Opposition to recognize a professional public service. The

role of the Deputy Attorney General is to protect the courts, to protect the

legal process and to act according to the laws of British Columbia. I have

confidence in the Deputy Attorney General — and the Attorney General, for that

matter, but the Deputy Attorney General in this particular case.

What was important, I felt, was to make sure that in terms of the

independence of this process it was done in the unfettered nature that we had

hoped for within the constructs of the law that we currently live with in

British Columbia — that there be no political interference.

[1555]

The decision with regard to the screening of those particular

documents — in this particular case, the cabinet documents…. The Deputy Attorney

General has unfettered access to the cabinet documents. The special prosecutor

will make the requests that he feels are required under this particular case.

The Deputy Attorney General will determine who in fact and what kind of

documentation will be made available within the confines of the law as it

currently exists, and he will not consult with the Premier's office with regard

to that.

That, it seems it me, maintains the independence that we're

calling for. I think it recognizes the strength of a professional, non-partisan

public service in protecting the public's interest. That's what I tried to

establish with regard to that, and I believe that giving instructions would have

been tantamount to undermining that very principle before it even began.

C. James: While I also support a professional civil service

and the good work that they do on all our behalf, I certainly think people would

expect that the Premier, in handing over the responsibility to the Attorney

General and to the Deputy Attorney General, would give some kind of instruction

about the fact that this should be, to use the Premier's words again, as

unfettered a process as possible — that the Premier would want to make it clear

from the Premier's office, to ensure that this process was open, to ensure that

the court got all the documents that it needed, to ensure that this case

continued in the way that it needed to do. Surely the Premier feels it

important.

That's my question. Does the Premier feel it's important that

those kinds of statements be made so that the Deputy Attorney General, yes,

makes the decisions about the documents but understands that, from the point of

view of the Premier's office, using privilege causes difficulties — that making

sure this is as open a process as possible is something that the Premier would

want on behalf of all British Columbians?

Hon. G. Campbell: I don't think I would support the

approach that I believe the opposition leader is suggesting I take, where I

would instruct the Deputy Attorney General of what his decision should be or

should not be. The Deputy Attorney General takes an oath of office. The Deputy

Attorney General is, frankly, a guardian of our court system.

What I have done in this particular case is say to the Deputy

Attorney General: "You will have full access

[ Page 8247 ]

to all the cabinet documentation, you will make the decisions as to which

documents should or should not go to the special prosecutor, you will work with

the special prosecutor on this, and you will make those decisions without any

political interference whatsoever from the Premier's office."

I think that's the appropriate approach to take, I think it's an

approach that maintains the independence of the system, I think it's an approach

that respects the professional expertise and responsibilities of the Deputy

Attorney General, and I think it's the approach that protects the public

interest.

C. James: Then just a follow-up question to the Premier.

How is the Premier assured that the Deputy Attorney General will make a decision

around cabinet confidentiality, for example, in a way that ensures unfettered

access and ensures openness and transparency so that the court gets all the

documents that it needs?

[1600]

Hon. G. Campbell: I think what it really boils down to here

is that I don't concur with the thought that's being put forward here by the

Leader of the Opposition — that somehow the Premier's office should direct the

Deputy Attorney General.

The Deputy Attorney General holds that position because he is

recognized as a man of integrity, as a senior public servant who is in the

service of the people of British Columbia. It would simply be wrong for me to

direct the Deputy Attorney General in what I would like or not like to have

happen in the undertaking of this responsibility that we have asked him to do.

I think the opposition leader is not correct that I should be

directing or politically interfering in any way. I have great confidence in the

Deputy Attorney General, and he'll make the right decisions in the public

interest.

C. James: This isn't about direction or political

interference with the Deputy Attorney General.

Now that we understand that the Deputy Attorney General is going

to be making those decisions about which documents to release and which ones

will be held back because of cabinet confidentiality or other decisions, my

question to the Premier is: how is the Premier assured — not in direction — that

the Deputy Attorney General is going to make decisions in the spirit of openness

and transparency in releasing documents?

[1605]

Hon. G. Campbell: I think the line of questioning at this

point is actually calling into question the integrity of the Deputy Attorney

General. I don't think that's appropriate.

He makes decisions every single day that are upholding the public

trust. He's been asked to make a decision with regard to this particular matter.

It's important that he exercise that independent judgment in the public

interest. He will do that. He will do that, I'm sure, in consultation with the

special prosecutor. He has responsibilities to the public.

Again, the Premier won't be checked with on this. The Premier's

office won't be checked with on this. It will be his decision and his decision

alone, and I have confidence that the Deputy Attorney General will make those

decisions in the public interest.

C. James: This had nothing to do with the integrity of the

Deputy Attorney General. I have full belief in the integrity of the Deputy

Attorney General. This has to do with the Premier and the Premier's willingness

to take a look at openness and transparency when it comes to documents, when it

comes to this court case and when it comes to his stated belief that the

government should be open to making sure this court case goes forward. That was

what this issue was about.

Let's move on, then, to an area where the Premier does have direct

involvement. That would be related to the role that's been played by various

cabinet ministers both current and former, including the former Solicitor

General, in the Basi-Virk case.

My question then would be to the Premier. In the interests of full

public disclosure on this issue before the trial, will the Premier commit that

ministers and any other government officials who may be called to testify will

commit to do so?

Hon. G. Campbell: The opposition leader has signalled that

she intends to ask some questions with regard to the Basi-Virk trial. Since this

began, not just publicly but in question period and in other times in this

House, I've been very clear that I don't intend to comment on the trial.

[1610]

I do think it's important to take a moment just to reflect on what

the opposition leader herself and her Attorney General critic have pointed out

with regard to this. The Attorney General…. It was pointed out that cases should

be left to the courts and to keep comments to himself. It was pointed out that

it's essential to the rule of law that the integrity of the judicial process not

be interfered with. This quote, I think, is critically important: "High profile

prosecutions have failed in the past because politicians felt compelled to make

comments in public that were later deemed prejudicial."

I think that all of our mutual responsibilities here are not to

prejudice this action or this case which is before the courts in any way. I have

not changed my position since we started. I will not change my position as long

as this is before the courts.

It remains before the courts, and it would be simply inappropriate

for me to comment now to any other questions that are related directly back to

this issue throughout these estimates or any other discussions that we may have

in public or, for that matter, in private.

The Chair: Leader of the Opposition, if I may raise a

question of caution that we should not be discussing any matters that would

prejudice the trial that is ongoing.

C. James: Thank you, hon. Chair. I certainly don't want to

interfere in the court case. I think it's important

[ Page 8248 ]

for all British Columbians that this court case proceeds, that we ensure that

it has full involvement of those necessary to ensure that it is an open court

case and goes forward.

But my question was not in fact a specific question around

anything that is before the courts. My question was to do with the Premier's own

statements that he believes that government needs to be as open as possible to

ensure that this court case goes forward, that government not interfere in this

court case in any way, shape or form.

So my question — again, not related specifically to the court case

— is to the Premier. Will he ensure that if cabinet ministers or former cabinet

ministers or current sitting MLAs are called to testify, he will make sure that

people testify in the court case?

Hon. G. Campbell: Same answer.

C. James: I'll ask the question a different way to the

Premier. If the Premier himself is called to testify, will the Premier commit

today to British Columbians that he will testify?

Hon. G. Campbell: Same answer.

The Chair: Let me once again raise the caution, Leader of

the Opposition, that maybe you want to pursue a different line of questioning

for the benefit of what we are here for, which is the estimates of the Premier's

office.

C. James: Thank you, hon. Chair, and I certainly think

that, as with the estimates and as with the Premier's responsibilities, he is

ultimately responsible for the actions of government, for the actions of cabinet

ministers, for the actions of MLAs. Those actions, whether they are related to a

court case or related to government business, are ultimately the Premier's

responsibility.

So my question would be to the Premier: on what basis is he making

a decision that not responding to these questions is related to the court case?