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May 8, 1990

34th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

WORKERS’ COMPENSATION BOARD

POLLUTION CONTROL

ELECTION IN CROATIA

WASTE MANAGEMENT

ANNIVERSARY OF MOBILIZATION OF REGIMENT

ELECTION IN CROATIA

WOMEN’S HEALTH SERVICES

NURSES’ WEEK

KATHLEEN TAYLOR

MEMBERS’ PRIVILEGES

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

CANCER TREATMENT

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

RESPONSES

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

CANCER TREATMENT

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

CANCER TREATMENT

ORAL QUESTIONS

AGRICULTURAL LAND

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

CORPORATE TAX

MINISTRY MAILING

INVESTMENT IN ONTARIO

PENSION LEGISLATION

LABOUR DISPUTE

DETROIT INCINERATOR

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

ACCESS TO POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

DECENTRALIZATION OF GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

PETITIONS

NATUROPATHY

GREATER TORONTO AREA

DRUG BENEFITS

WATER-PLAY FACILITY

LICENCE PLATE FEES

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 1990

JABKO HOLDINGS LTD ACT, 1990

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION (CONTINUED)

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

WORKERS’ COMPENSATION BOARD

Mr Laughren: I normally do not raise matters that an individual constituent has with the Workers’ Compensation Board, but I simply must today. Andy Petitclerc of Gogama was awarded, by the Workers’ Compensation Appeals Tribunal, a permanent disability pension for chronic pain in October 1988. The board, under what is known as

section 86n, stayed or postponed the retroactive portion of that award. The decision still has not been made and his permanent disability award is really not permanent since it is renewed every 12 months.

He was told his award would be renewed in February, but it was not done until May. In the meantime, he has to call every month to get his cheques. His April cheque was two weeks late; his May cheque was over a week late. Just last week or so, he asked for his June cheque to be delivered to him three weeks early so he could visit his family in New Brunswick. Despite all those unconscionable delays on the part of the board, its response was to hit him over the head with its policy manual and say that it was not a matter of an emergency, nor a pressing need. That was their response.

The same board that will withhold money from Mr Petitclerc at will at the same time will not let him take his June cheque three weeks early so he can visit his family. The compensation board is as mean-spirited and arrogant as it ever was, and in the words of the member for Dovercourt, if I could quote him, one time in a committee he said, “The board treats injured workers like dogs.”

POLLUTION CONTROL

Mr Wiseman: Last week the Minister of the Environment announced the eventual banning of rigid foam insulation and flexible foam insulation used in furniture as evidence of his government’s commitment to reducing ozone-destroying substances. Unfortunately, the commitment does not extend to emission control in used vehicles.

I have copies of the letters from the present Minister of the Environment and the Minister of Transportation to the member for Peterborough on this subject. Both ministers admit that, as things stand, the mechanic does not have to ensure that a pollution control system is present and functioning when a vehicle safety check is done. The Minister of the Environment even spoke of the “problems” caused by the lack of regulations and called it a “deficiency.”

You might think that once this situation was pointed out to them, they would have done something to correct it. But no, these letters were written over a year ago and so far nothing has happened. It seems to me that a government that pretends to be so committed to a healthy environment that it concerns itself with the innards of furniture should devote itself to something far more basic, like the air we breathe all day every day on the streets and the highways of this province.

ELECTION IN CROATIA

Mr Faubert: As a member of a parliamentary observer team, along with the member for Mississauga East, the member for Mississauga West, the member for Halton North and the member for Durham East, I was privileged to witness the viability of the recent voting process in Croatia’s first multiparty elections in 45 years, and so became a witness to history. We were joined by federal members as well as a team of US congressmen and lawyers.

My assignment was in Vukovar and its villages, east of Osijek, to report back to the Croatian Democratic Union, the HDZ, at whose invitation we were there, and to document observed polling irregularities, abuses and pressures.

First-round voting gave the HDZ 103 of the 131 decided seats, the Communists 13 and others 15. The latest reports from the second round of 6 and 7 May show similar results.

One appalling aspect of the election was the reaction of the international media, including Toronto’s press, which appeared simply to echo the Communist-dominated national press line that the HDZ victory was that of the “rightists” with “ties to the Ustashe fascist movement of the Second World War.” Nothing could be further from the truth.

Dr Franjo Tudjman, president of the HDZ, now President-elect of Croatia, fought against the Ustashes and was jailed for his national ideals. Having met and spoken with him, I know that he and his party want only to achieve national and human rights, peaceful democratization and a free economy to support the objectives of a viable Croatian state.

I call upon the Canadian government to establish a permanent consul in Zagreb to assist those many in Canada who wish to invest with their hearts in this future--

The Speaker: Thank you. The member’s time has expired.

WASTE MANAGEMENT

Mrs Grier: Today, on behalf of the New Democrat caucus, the member for Hamilton West will introduce a private member’s bill that has amendments to the Environmental Protection Act to authorize the making of regulations to reduce waste. Garbage is piling up all across this province, and the only way to really get at the problem is to reduce the production of garbage in the first place rather than find more landfill sites to put it in.

The bill’s purpose is to implement a resolution that I put before this House last December and that was supported by members on all sides. The resolution listed policies and laws to reduce garbage through less packaging, more refillable containers and more durable consumer products. It called on the government to introduce the needed legislation at the opening of this sitting of the Legislature. We know that the government has completely failed to act to reduce garbage and so we have stepped in. We are providing the House today with a piece of legislation that does what all members of the House said they wanted to do when they supported my private member’s resolution last December.

I ask the government members, since they have failed to act themselves, to delay no longer, to allow my bill to pass and to try to solve the garbage problem, which they have no answers to and to which we have some solutions.

ANNIVERSARY OF MOBILIZATION OF REGIMENT

Mr Villeneuve: This weekend an important date will be celebrated at the Denison Armoury in Downsview, as members of the Governor General’s Horse Guards Association will meet to mark the 50th anniversary of the regiment’s mobilization for war service in the Second World War.

The Governor General’s Horse Guards of today are directly descended from one of Canada’s oldest cavalry units, Button’s Troop. In 1936, following a general reorganization of the militia, the Governor General’s Horse Guards were formed. In October 1940 the regiment was mobilized, proceeding overseas a year later as part of the 5th Armoured Division. It saw action in Italy, Belgium and Holland, collecting numerous battle honours with the First Canadian Army before returning to Toronto in January 1946.

Today the Governor General’s Horse Guards is a militia regiment, parading regularly at the Denison Armoury. It maintains its early traditions with cavalry through its riding club, in addition to militia training.

On behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus here in the Legislature of Ontario, I would like to congratulate the members of the horse guards on the occasion of their 50th anniversary reunion to be held at the Denison Armoury this weekend, 11, 12 and 13 May. Good luck to them.

ELECTION IN CROATIA

Mr Sola: Imagine an election where thousands of people line up for hours to register for the right to vote. Envision an election where border crossings are jammed with columns, 10 to 15 kilometres long, of cars and buses loaded with citizens anxious to cast their ballot. Would you believe planeloads of voters landing at 15-minute intervals to exercise their franchise? How about a chartered private plane and a wild taxi ride in order to get to the polls on time? And all at the individual’s expense?

Imagine an election where the opposition has little or no access to the media, yet draws crowds of up to 500,000 strong to its rallies. Unbelievable, yet true. This was Croatia on 22 April 1990, its first free, democratic, multiparty election in 45 years.

The people voted overwhelmingly against totalitarianism and dictatorship, of the proletariat or any other kind. Their clear choice was a party of moderate reformers, the Croatian Democratic Union led by Dr Franjo Tudjman, and its platform of democracy, self-determination, state sovereignty, religious, racial and ethnic tolerance, protection of human rights and a free market economy. It was a clear message that Croatians want to shed their status as second-class citizens and become equal in their own country.

As a member of a group of 11 Canadian parliamentary observers, including five from this House, I am proud to have been a witness to history in the land of my birth.

WOMEN’S HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Charlton: Over the last number of years we all have begun to pay lipservice to the very important social problem that we have seen evolve around substance abuse. Unfortunately, we are not doing very much more in an effective, ongoing way than just paying lipservice, and the priority we express in our words is certainly not there in our actions.

Mary Ellis Home in Hamilton is a women’s detox centre and a recovery centre for recovering alcoholics. Mary Ellis Home is about to close because of lack of government support, both at the regional and provincial levels. The home may survive because of regional intervention, but this government has totally failed to respond.

Mary Ellis Home provides a service to recovering alcoholic women, most of whom are also sufferers of abuse, both physical and sexual. There are five men’s centres in the city of Hamilton and two co-ed centres. If Mary Ellis Home closes, there will be two beds available for the treatment of women in Hamilton.

That is the reflection of this government’s commitment to women, to substance abuse and to try to deal with a very serious social problem which has a much greater impact on women than it ever had or ever could have on men. The home should stay open.

NURSES’ WEEK

Mr Eves: The second week in May has been declared Nurses’ Week in order to increase the profile of the nursing profession and provide the public with an opportunity to show its appreciation to this dedicated group of professionals.

Today in Ontario there are over 80,000 nurses employed in hospitals, schools, retirement homes and other public and private institutions. These nurses provide care, both medical and emotional, to their patients. Their contribution to public health in Ontario is immense and their commitment is worthy of much praise.

During this week we should also reflect on the present crisis in our health care system, which is partly related to a nursing shortage in some areas of Ontario. A new commitment must be made to recognize the importance of the nursing profession in providing health care and adequate support must be given to those nursing organizations which provide home care in Ontario.

This week we salute nurses everywhere throughout the province. We recognize that a strong core of nurses is important for Ontario and we join with Ontarians from all walks of life in calling for action designed to strengthen the nursing profession throughout the province.

KATHLEEN TAYLOR

Mr Adams: It was my privilege to attend the ceremony at which one of my constituents, Kaye Taylor, received the Order of Ontario. This, in part, was the citation:

“Twenty-five years ago, when social programs were extended into native communities, Kathleen Taylor agreed to serve as the first relief officer for the Curve Lake Band. In her mid-40s, having raised eight children, she assumed responsibility for food rations and welfare cheques. This was an opportunity to fulfil her youthful desire to become a nurse, to care for and nurture her people. This purpose became the driving force in her life.

“During her first five years in the field, Kaye recognized the agenda of social programs as being irrelevant to the needs of native communities. Under her leadership, 15 bands met at Curve Lake to found the Ontario Native Welfare Administrators Association. Seventeen years later, it represents 101 of 106 bands in the province and Mrs Taylor, its first president, still serves voluntarily in that capacity.

“The association has become an advocate for natives and provides extensive counselling and assistance for a full spectrum of concerns from education and child care to family violence and aging.

“One of her greatest contributions has been to develop awareness of the importance of education among native people. The Ontario Native Welfare Administrators Association is only one example of Kathleen Taylor’s work for which she received the Order of Ontario.”

MEMBERS’ PRIVILEGES

Ms Poole: Mr Speaker, I would like to raise a matter of privilege. Last week, a Conservative tabloid called the Eglinton Sun was distributed, without postage or labels, by legislative mail service to every member’s box. I understand it even went further than this. I have a letter from legislative mail services which confirms that the request for this distribution came from the Progressive Conservative caucus office.

The rules of the Legislative Assembly are clear. The distribution of partisan material at taxpayers’ expense is firmly prohibited. There is no question that this newsletter is partisan in nature. It not only features my Conservative opponent from the last election, but it also includes a Conservative membership form.

As I say, it abuses the privileges of this House and my privileges as a member. I would ask you, Mr Speaker, to review this matter and to determine how widespread the mailing at taxpayers’ expense was and whether indeed this material was printed at taxpayers’ expense.

The Speaker: I would first like to thank the member for informing me of her alleged point of privilege and sending me the material in advance of her submission.

I noted, by the submission she made to me previously and the comments made today, that she was asking for a ruling on whether the mailing of the tabloid was at taxpayers’ expense and, if so, how widespread. I have to say that I really feel I have no authority to research how widely it was circulated but, for the information of the members, I am concerned about the mailing of the tabloid by a caucus staff member.

The guideline we have used is that any member may mail any items to all members in our post office without individual addresses but they must be requested by a member. Other individuals or organizations have been allowed to send items to all members, but they must be addressed individually.

Now I noted you have asked another question: Was this printed at taxpayers’ expense? I have difficulty in taking it upon myself to research the printing costs so it really appears to me that it is an administrative problem and not a matter of privilege. I will, however, discuss this matter with the people in the post office.

Mr McCague: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I have here a press release which says that the provincial government will continue to fund an after-hours hotline for tenants in Metropolitan Toronto. The announcement was made by the member for Eglinton. Would this be in order?

The Speaker: I do not believe it was really a point of order. It was certainly a question.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

CANCER TREATMENT

Hon Mrs Caplan: Mr Speaker, as I am sure you know, cancer is one of the specialty care areas which is given priority by the Ministry of Health. Today, I am pleased to announce that my ministry has committed $278 million for the largest expansion of cancer services ever undertaken in Ontario.

This funding will be directed towards the extension of cancer services in the Toronto area. This multi-year plan involves commitments of $43 million to double the capacity to treat patients at the Toronto-Bayview Regional Cancer Centre, $73 million for a new clinical services support wing at Sunnybrook Health Science Centre and $162 million for three new regional cancer centres north, east and west of Toronto and for expansions at affiliated local hospitals to accommodate the centres.

These expansions, along with the rebuilding of Princess Margaret Hospital, represent a significant component of our government’s $300-million commitment to cancer services over the next four years, as the Treasurer announced in his budget.

As well, I am announcing a major change in the funding policy for regional cancer centres. Under the new policy the ministry will provide 100% of the cost of capital developments in the centres. Previously, two thirds of the cost had been provided by the ministry with the remainder coming through fund-raising.

These measures will enable us to handle current pressures caused by the dramatic increases in the number of cancer patients, as well as meet projected future demand.

The ministry funding to Toronto-Bayview Regional Cancer Centre will cover the total cost of doubling its physical size and resources to treat patients.

The centre will be adding seven radiotherapy machines, expanding chemotherapy facilities and enhancing diagnostic services and three-dimensional treatment planning. The additional radiotherapy machines will be in place by 1993, bringing to 13 the number at Toronto-Bayview.

The new clinical services support wing at Sunnybrook Health Science Centre will provide the increased support required for cancer patients as a result of the expansion at Toronto-Bayview centre.

My ministry will be contributing $73 million towards the overall cost of surgical suites, intensive care units, laboratories and outpatient care clinics. The new wing will also serve cardiac and trauma patients.

The three new regional cancer centres will provide comprehensive cancer care services. These will include a total of 12 radiotherapy machines, multidisciplinary consultation and assessment programs, chemotherapy and day procedure capabilities.

Recruitment efforts are already well under way towards ensuring that there will be enough people to run these new machines when they become operational.

My ministry will provide the total $102 million for the planning and construction of these centres. We will also contribute $60 million towards capital projects at affiliated local hospitals to accommodate these centres. The local hospitals will provide inpatient and diagnostic services.

The change in funding policy means fund-raising for the regional cancer centres may now be directed towards Princess Margaret Hospital. The new Princess Margaret Hospital on University Avenue will be a state-of-the-art cancer research and treatment facility for the entire province.

These initiatives will greatly enhance the co-ordinated network of cancer services in the Toronto area and throughout the province.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Hon Mrs Wilson: I am pleased to announce today $2.2 million in additional funding for the establishment of new emergency shelters and transition houses for assaulted women in Ontario. This funding will allow access to capital funding for new shelters available from the federal government’s Project Haven. There are currently 81 shelters for assaulted women in Ontario. With these new funds we will be able to increase this number to at least 90.

Both I and my colleague the Minister of Community and Social Services want to ensure that Ontario will stay a leader among provinces and territories in addressing the issue of wife assault. The new funding brings the province’s 1990-91 financial commitment for wife assault initiatives to a total of $43.2 million.

This new funding means there will be more safe havens for women who are in abusive relationships. Wife assault is a crime. There is never an excuse for it and it is never a private matter. Furthermore, the $2.2 million in new funds is additional proof that this government means what it says, that we are committed to achieving safety and security for women.

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

Hon Mr Mancini: It gives me pleasure to advise the honourable members that approximately 694,000 senior citizen households across Ontario will receive the spring portion of the 1990 property tax grant cheques over the next few days. The Ministry of Revenue started mailing the cheques, valued at a total of more than $200 million, on 30 April.

The property tax grant is made available to offset municipal and school taxes paid by senior citizens who own or rent their homes and apartments. Tax benefits such as these reflect the Ontario government’s concern for the wellbeing of our seniors. We help make it possible for them to remain in their own homes and continue to live very productive and fulfilling lives.

The maximum property tax grant interim payment per household is $300, while the average amount per cheque is $288. The grant is available in two instalments. The spring instalment is an automatic payment and the second instalment is made in the fall after the applications submitted by the seniors are processed. Because there are so many cheques, the mailing is staggered to allow for a continuous flow through Canada Post and to avoid delays in delivery.

I would like to thank the honourable members and their constituency office staff for their support of this program. It is very definitely a positive response by this government to a vital community need.

RESPONSES

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

Mr Laughren: I wish to respond to the statement by the Minister of Revenue. He says that it gives him pleasure to announce that this miserable level of property tax grants is being mailed out. If giving out this level of grants gives him pleasure, I shudder to think of what other kinds of activities might give him pleasure as well.

Despite the fact that since 1974 the revenues from property and sales taxes have increased substantially, the revenues have increased three times as fast as the level of grants and they are sadly behind the level they were back in 1974.

On top of that, this government has done many things to make things more difficult for the property taxpayer: It has reneged on its promise to pick up 60% of the cost of education at the local level; it has frozen unconditional grants at the municipal level; it has imposed court security costs on local municipalities that were not there before; it has imposed pay equity costs on local municipalities, and it has also imposed the employer health tax levy on municipalities.

If this minister and his government were really interested in doing something for the seniors at the municipal level, they would keep some of the promises they have made in the past.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mr Reville: New Democrats welcome the expansion of cancer services, but we continue to be concerned that the government has not come to grips with either the causes of cancer or the quality of life experienced by those who receive cancer treatment.

Carcinogens in our workplaces, our air, our water and our soil can indeed be reduced. Smoking can be reduced. Lifestyles can be improved. We can develop empowering processes so that people make wise lifestyle choices, but much more remains to be done about poverty before such choices can indeed be real.

It is a paradox that our health care system and the technological advances that go with it can preserve life without reference to its quality. The government’s failure to deal with issues of home care, palliative care and income that the people suffering from cancer experience and enjoy are serious problems.

Experts in oncology tell us that a strong local support system is very valuable to people who are receiving cancer treatment and, of course, the government’s approach to regional care undercuts the local support that would be very positive for people.

I think the government has addressed only one of three problems.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Mr R. F. Johnston: Is it not wonderful what an election will do? For five years this government has refused to add any new centres for assaulted women in this province. It has added a few beds here or there, but the promise now of having at least 90 in place -- God knows when; it does not say -- is the first new initiative by a government which has refused to add any new spaces in the last number of years.

Is it not ironic that the only reason the Liberals are doing it, besides the election, is that the Mulroney government is actually bringing forward some money they can piggyback on so that they can spread their money a little bit further? God knows, these are nine new centres over a six-year period, when we know how large that problem is out there. We know just how positive the Mulroney government has been towards women’s issues. We have seen some evidence of that again lately.

It is a real shame, it seems to me, and a major statement of where this government stands on women’s issues, that the only time it could add new centres for assaulted women is in the wake of the federal government, which has been so niggardly in its response to women’s issues, whether it is to do with day care centres or assistance for assaulted women and organizations for women in this country. Only now is it able to come forward with nine centres in this province, when we know just how extraordinary the need is.

They should all be ashamed of themselves for coming forward with this at this very late date, given that the Premier in 1985 made commitments to new centres and he is only now fulfilling that promise six years later.

PROPERTY TAX GRANTS

Mr Brandt: Under normal circumstances, the announcement by the Minister of Revenue would be welcomed by the members of the Legislative Assembly, because it does in fact assist the seniors in our province by reducing the amount of taxes they pay through the property tax relief program that is part of the responsibility of the Minister of Revenue.

What concerns me is the very point that was raised by my colleague from the New Democratic Party, and that is that this grant becomes less meaningful and has less impact as property taxes increase at the local level. While the government and this Treasurer continue to shift both educational taxes and property taxes on to the local taxpayer, it makes the burden of seniors living in their own homes much more difficult, because this is a flat-rate relief program: $300 is the maximum and $288 is approximately the average that our 700,000 seniors across the province receive for this particular assistance.

But I want to tell members that with each passing year as the government offloads, shifts, passes on responsibilities and takes the easy way out by way of asking someone else to pay the bills, it hurts the very seniors that this program was supposed to help, and it is wrong.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Mr Jackson: I would like to respond to the announcement by the Minister without Portfolio responsible for women’s issues, partially because it is a very brief announcement today. It certainly does not have many of the details. If we were being completely open and honest about this announcement today, we would have to indicate the amount of money that is coming from the federal government in order to make this a reality and we would have to admit how much is missing from the 1990 Ontario budget with respect to women’s issues, in particular this important issue of family violence.

If the minister herself would look into the facts, she would know that in the last two years this province lost federal grant money because the province refused to take up the moneys that other provinces --

Mr Callahan: Baloney.

Mr Jackson: The province of Manitoba under NDP and Conservative governments used Ontario dollars to build shelters for abused women. The Conservative government in Saskatchewan used additional moneys that were earmarked for Ontario because this government said, “We’re only going to expand one or two shelters over a five-year period.”

Eight thousand to 10,000 women and children a year are turned away at shelters for lack of space, for lack of programs. One third of the 60 homicides in the city of Toronto in the past year were directly linked to domestic violence. That is what is going on out there, I tell the minister.

This announcement is six years late and those beds are required. We are going to have to use federal government funding; it certainly is not major dollars from this government’s budget. But it is sad that it takes an election call to get this government to make a meaningful commitment to battered women in this province.

CANCER TREATMENT

Mr Eves: I would like to briefly address the statement made by the Minister of Health in the House this afternoon.

Over a year ago, several people in this Legislature told the minister that these radiotherapy machines would be coming on stream and that we needed radiotherapy technologists in the province in the worst way. The minister’s response is, over a year later, to say that recruitment efforts are well under way. They should have been well under way for the last three, four or five years.

Did people have to suffer for the last year until the minister waited until she thought it might be convenient, during an election year? Is that why people have to travel to Thunder Bay and other jurisdictions, like Mrs Brander from my constituency, until the minister thinks it is politically opportunistic for her to stand up in the House and respond?

Where was the minister a year ago when we asked these questions in the House? What has she been doing for the past year? What about the cancer treatment centre in Sudbury? The minister commits dollars to bricks and mortar; she will not do anything about getting Dr Ho and other qualified people in to act as oncologists in those centres.

I would remind the people of Ontario that when the budget was announced on 24 April, Treasury officials in the lockup indicated that only $30 million of this money will be spent during this fiscal year. I also want to remind the people of Ontario this is the same government that said it had increased the number of beds in the province by 4,400 in 1987 and since then has reduced the number of beds by 2,000.

ORAL QUESTIONS

AGRICULTURAL LAND

Mr B. Rae: I have some questions today for the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Back in 1988, a researcher from the New Democratic Party asked the government when the policy statement on food land preservation, which was issued in 1986 under the signature of the Minister of Agriculture and Food and the Minister of Municipal Affairs, would be before cabinet. The answer was that it would be early fall in 1988 or, optimistically, late spring.

We are now in the year 1990 and we still have no clear statement from this government with respect to its policy on the preservation of agricultural land and the limitation on urban growth and the impact that that growth and development is having on prime agricultural land in the province. I want to ask the minister, what has happened to these guidelines and when are we going to have them clearly stated in the Planning Act?

Hon Mr Sweeney: The Ministry of Agriculture and Food brought forward a draft set of guidelines. At the same time, it was the decision of cabinet to look at a whole series of planning changes involving the Minister of Natural Resources, the Minister of the Environment, the Minister of Agriculture and Food and the Minister of Municipal Affairs. One of the reasons the Premier set up the new cabinet committee on housing and community development was to bring those four ministries together to find a range of consistency with four different sets of guidelines. That process is taking place at the present time.

Mr B. Rae: We all thought Project X was dead, but it is obvious that it has raised its head again. We went through the period of the 1970s when this issue was very much a live one. The Conservatives brought forward a food land guideline in 1978 that set out certain policies with regard to the protection of agricultural land. Since that time the amount of agricultural land in the province has declined dramatically and the rate of conversion from agricultural land to development has expanded considerably. Indeed, there has been an epidemic since 1976.

I want to ask the minister this question: Can he tell us why, for example, changes that would require designations that allow strip development into agricultural areas to be avoided, that urban growth take place as a logical extension of existing development, that development of existing vacant lands within urban areas occur before outward expansion on to prime agricultural land, and on and on and on -- basic principles of planning -- have not been put in place well before the epidemic of development took place?

Hon Mr Sweeney: My honourable colleague will be well aware of the fact that the announcements we have made recently with respect to new development, both within our housing policy and within the use of provincial land, have referred to those very issues. As a matter of fact, the most recent announcement I made with respect to Seaton talked about those very initiatives as well; we want much denser development on a smaller amount of land, so that in fact more green space and more agricultural land can be protected for the future. There is no quarrel with respect to those particular initiatives.

We are working on them at the present time. As I indicated to him, the current Minister of Agriculture and Food concurs with all of these and his new land use plans will certainly reflect those.

Mr B. Rae: I am very familiar with how strongly the Minister of Agriculture and Food feels about a number of issues, but my question of the Minister of Municipal Affairs is simply this: He well knows that the Planning Act is in place and that under the Planning Act and the designations that are contained under official plans, decisions are being made every day in the regions of this province, in York region, in Niagara region, in Peel region, in Halton region, all throughout southern Ontario These decisions are being made by planners under the current law. When is the law going to be changed so that agricultural land is protected? When is it going to happen?

Hon Mr Sweeney: I have had numerous discussions, as I am sure the honourable member would appreciate, with my colleague in Agriculture and Food. We share a concern with the use of agricultural land. We have made a joint determination that we want more compact use of existing urban land.

The housing policy on land use that has been distributed across the province since last August clearly identifies that as one of the goals and clearly indicates that the provincial policy statements and the umbrella provincial policy statement, which are in the works right now and which I would clearly hope to have available in the fall of this year, are going to reflect all those initiatives and all those policy positions.

Hon Mr Sweeney: On a periodic basis the regulations with respect to the building code are reviewed. That is a process that is under way right at the present time. The review process was divided up into five sections. The honourable member will be aware of the fact, I am sure, that under the existing building code and its regulations there is no reference at all to rapid transit stations. I am not quite sure why that is the case, but that in fact happens to be the case. When this review was contemplated it was obvious, given the amount of activity that is going to be taking place over the next decade, that in fact we ought to have a

section within the building code dealing with rapid transit stations.

She will be aware of the fact that the Minister of Transportation has made it very clear that the policy intent of the government is to make these accessible to the physically disabled. The only difficulty we have at the moment is that we do not have the technical knowledge and the technical expertise to have people, in exiting from a rapid transit station, exit from the car if it has to stop anywhere between stations. Until we have that technical knowledge, we had suggested as part of the process that exemptions would be made. That does not prohibit them from --

The Speaker: Thank you. Order.

Mrs Grier: At the press conference this morning, representatives of the disabled eloquently spoke of their right to take risks. They pointed out that all of us take risks when we move around at all in society. They acknowledged that perhaps there was a risk in using rapid transit, but that they felt they ought to be the ones to decide whether or not they took that risk.

The Speaker: Thank you.

Hon Mr Sweeney: The honourable member is correct that the Minister of Transportation has indicated that at the present time, given the current technical knowledge and expertise we have, he certainly wants any subway station that is being retrofitted or any subway station that is being built for the first time to have all the necessary provisions built in at that stage. As soon as we have the ability to deal with the other risk factors -- I accept the honourable member’s statement that we all take risks, but I believe she would also accept the fact that we have an obligation, particularly for a disabled person, to reduce the risk as much as possible.

I would disagree with him. The fact is that we recognize some potential risks and we want, to the extent possible, to reduce those risks. I do not think we can completely eliminate them -- as the member’s colleague indicated, we all take those risks -- but want to reduce them as far as possible so that when the infrastructure is in place, the disabled community will be as safe as the rest of us will.

I think they have a right to know that while they have access to it the same as the rest of us, they also ought to have a right to expect the same kind of safety features that the rest of us would expect to find. We are quite prepared to do that. The pre-fit to be sure that all of that can happen in renovated stations and in newly built stations is something that we agree with and the consultation process will determine how --

The Speaker: Thank you. New question, the member for Sarnia.

[Applause]

Mr Brandt: I have a question for the Treasurer, but I will wait until the applause dies down.

Mr Breaugh: It died about three years ago, Andy.

Mr Brandt: At least I did not physically die two years ago, or politically for that matter.

ECONOMIC OUTLOOK

Mr Brandt: The Treasurer in his budget projections indicated that he anticipated there would be some 81,000 housing starts. At the time I looked at that figure I had the queasy feeling deep within myself that perhaps he was being just a modest degree overoptimistic about his projections. We now have the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp report that has come out indicating a projection fully 35% lower than that estimated by the Treasurer. In fact, they estimate that there will only be some 52,000 housing starts, which is considerably fewer than what the Treasurer has suggested. Could the Treasurer indicate to this House whether he is prepared to revise his budget to a more realistic figure?

Hon R. F. Nixon: The Treasury has given the House its recommendations for economic projections. Going back into -- December, the honourable member will recall that the grey book was published at that time. Those were moderated to some extent for the preparation of the budget and we feel our recommendations are reasonable. The count of the houses and the level of activity are taken on a somewhat different basis. We still think there will be about 80,000 starts in Ontario this year.

Most of the reduction in the activity is in the Toronto area, which of course has been the centre of the fastest housing boom in the history of the nation. This has levelled off substantially, as the honourable member has indicated.

Mr Brandt: The Treasurer is aware that not only are his projections on the high side compared to others who are bringing in their suggestions as to the numbers that will in fact be constructed, but that the number of starts is declining more rapidly in Ontario, based on the latest statistical reports, than anywhere else in the entire country.

As a result of this slowdown in economic activity -- the layoffs in the housing industry, in the auto industry and the very critical layoffs that we have in northern Ontario related to the mining and the lumber industries -- is the Treasurer prepared, at some reasonable period of time in the future, to bring in a revised document that will more truly reflect conditions in Ontario, rather than just trying to put forward a balanced budget document that is not realistic in light of these economic facts?

Hon R. F. Nixon: We think the fiscal projections are realistic. We were very careful not to base them on the projections of Mr Wilson, the Minister of Finance for Canada, in his budget, which is less than two months old, when he indicated that interest rates would go down to an average of 11.1%. Since he made that projection, the interest rates have done nothing but go up. We are hoping he does not have to make a different projection because certainly those have a tremendous impact on the economy in general.

Let me assure the honourable member that I have no proprietary or vested interest in the projections that come from the economists of the Treasury. They do the best they can, and when they give me new projections I will be very glad to table them in the House and make them available to the honourable members and the people of the province. They are, like all economists, looking into the future and doing the best they can. They are among the best trained and the best experienced, and I have great confidence in their intellectual veracity.

Mr Brandt: Those intellectuals in the Treasury were in great part trained by a previous government, I believe. I therefore would not want to question the accuracy of some of their reports, but I believe the Treasurer is being somewhat too modest about his input into this particular document.

When the Treasurer recognizes that housing starts relate to jobs, the viability of the auto industry relates to jobs and the activity in the north relates to jobs, and when he looks in his budget as to the actual projections he has brought forward, in virtually every instance -- job creation, housing starts and the overall growth in the economy -- it appears this Treasurer stands alone with respect to his rather singular optimism regarding the economy. When is he prepared to face up to the facts that there is a slowdown taking place and that his projections are all on the high side?

Hon R. F. Nixon: I sense the honourable leader of the third party is the only person in the province who might take some pleasure in the unlikely event that my projections are optimistic, but they are based on the best information available.

Actually, I was not aware that these economists had been trained by himself and his collection of former ministers. If I had known that, perhaps I would have asked for other advice. My own experience, frankly, is that they are independent of me in that respect, just as they were independent of the honourable member. Maybe he thought he was directing them, but in fact it is their responsibility to base their recommendations on things other than political influence. That is probably why they are better now than they were then.

CHILDREN’S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Brandt: As one of the last questions I will have an opportunity to ask as leader of this party --

The Speaker: To which minister?

Interjections.

Mr Brandt: I did not realize I was going to get such an outburst of support on the other side.

The Speaker: And to which minister?

Mr Brandt: To the Minister of Community and Social Services, with whom I have had dialogue on this question for some time. I want to highlight, as one of my last questions in this capacity, what is in my opinion one of the most important issues that is not being dealt with by this House, and that is the whole question of children’s mental health services. I have pointed out in the past that some 10,000 children in Ontario are waiting for treatment. The minister knows that even today press reports have indicated that in his own area, the York region abuse program is running out of money to treat all the children who need care in that particular part of our province.

Can the minister explain, given all of the evidence before him, why the treatment programs for these children are not a higher priority of his government?

Hon Mr Beer: I want to say to the honourable member that I share completely his concern about this area, and indeed I believe it is a high priority. We are demonstrating that by a number of the things we are and have been doing. Let me just remind the honourable member of a couple of them. With respect to the waiting list and with respect to a number of the funding issues facing the children’s mental health centres, as I have said before, I met with the executive of the association and from that meeting we made a commitment to do a number of things.

For example, we have brought on an individual who is working full-time with the children’s mental health centres on the waiting list and on the various services that are available within the community that can help the children’s mental health centres in dealing with a number of the children on the list. We have moved to provide more funding this year for the staff of the children’s mental health centres and we have increased the base budgets.

In addition, the Colin Maloney report, which will be out next month, looking at the whole field of children’s services, is going to guide us in working with the children’s mental health centres to make sure that not only are they properly funded but that the whole area is properly organized and funded and that is a priority.

Mr Brandt: I want to point out to the minister that it is not only children’s mental health centres that have a crisis at the moment, but in fact children’s aid societies, which are the first line of defence for abused children; they are also in crisis.

The executive director of the Children’s Aid Society of Ottawa-Carleton claims “children remain too long in abusive homes because of a lack of provincial funding for children’s aid societies.” Yet the member for Ottawa-Rideau, who is the minister’s parliamentary assistant, stated in the debate on my resolution dealing with this crisis in children’s services that the children’s aid society has the resources to provide counselling to children and has the ability to apprehend them.

Can the minister explain why some nine out of 87 cases in the Ottawa-Carleton area under the jurisdiction of the children’s aid society were classified as instances where the children were being abused? Fully 10% of all of the cases they checked out had home situations that were simply not tolerable. How can that be allowed to happen in Ontario?

Hon Mr Beer: I have said to the honourable member, we are aware of a number of complex problems that are facing the children’s services sector. Again, therefore, I want to underline the importance of the Colin Maloney report.

With respect to the children’s aid societies specifically, there are a number of things that we are doing with them, looking at the whole question of their budgets, looking at the case load problems that they have, looking at how the whole area in terms of the family counselling associations, children’s aid societies, children’s mental health centres can work better together to maximize the funding that is available.

Finally, and specifically related to the question of child abuse and how we are able to handle that question, as the members know, I have asked Ms Joanne Campbell to review all of our procedures with respect to that area and she will be coming in with recommendations. I am sure that in the course of her review she is going to be looking specifically at some of the problems that are facing children’s aid societies across the province. It is a priority issue and we are moving on it, but we are --

The Speaker: Order. Final supplementary.

Mr Brandt: If 10,000 children somewhere in the world who were being physically and mentally abused were gathered in one spot, the world community would find some way to respond to their needs. The situation that we have here is 10,000 children scattered in fives, in tens, in dozens and in hundreds throughout various communities across this province, some 10,000 of them, and that figure is quite accurate, as the minister knows, having been developed by those professionals who are working in the field.

Will the minister undertake one commitment that I would ask him to do? Will he take some of the case examples which I know he has in his possession, which have been passed on to him, some specific examples, and will he discuss these with his cabinet colleagues and attempt to get some response from his cabinet colleagues to the effect that they are prepared to accelerate the assistance programs so that we can start to reduce those numbers on this critical waiting list? Is the minister prepared to do that?

Hon Mr Beer: I think that not only have we made that commitment in terms of improving the services, but we have shown that in real terms already this year with the steps we have taken to improve the funding of the children’s mental health centres and to improve the salaries of those working in that area.

Again, I would remind the honourable member that my budget has gone up some $800 million over last year in terms of dealing with a wide range of issues, of which those facing the children’s sector are among the most important and the ones on which we place a very high priority. All of this, again, we are doing at a time when the funding from the federal level is not what it was and indeed is going to be less. So I believe that commitment is there.

I can say to the honourable member this is an issue in which not a week goes by when we are not trying to find some way of sending more funding into this area and dealing with the specific kinds of cases he has mentioned. I believe we are making progress, and once we have the Maloney report we will have a set of guidelines, a blueprint, for working with those in the field to make sure that we get rid of that waiting list.

CORPORATE TAX

Mr Laughren: I have a question for the Treasurer concerning Ontario’s truly awful tax system. The Treasurer should know that in 1988 the fifth largest profitable developer in Canada, Hammerson Canada Inc. had an operating income of $35.2 million, distributed dividends of $14 million to shareholders and paid no income tax whatsoever, and E-L Financial Corp, the fifth most profitable property and casualty insurer in Canada, had an operating income of $27.9 million, distributed dividends of $6.4 million and actually got a $1.3-million tax credit from the long-suffering taxpayers.

I think the Treasurer understands that what is happening with his wealthy friends is that, first of all, the corporations are paying no taxes because of writing down their operating income; then the wealthy shareholders are getting a tax credit on the dividends they receive because the corporations, it was assumed, would be paying taxes and there was not supposed to be double taxation.

Given the fact that so many of these wealthy corporations are paying no taxes, how does the Treasurer justify not bringing in a minimum corporate tax this year?

Hon R. F. Nixon: The honourable member knows that our capital tax serves that purpose to some degree in this province. Other provinces have followed our lead in that connection, although the province of Quebec, for example, has a larger capital tax than we have.

Mr Laughren: I guess the Treasurer is telling us that the capital tax -- what is it; 0.3% or 0.03%?

Hon R. F. Nixon: A lot of them think it is too high.

Mr Laughren: Yes, of course, they think it is too high.

The Speaker: Question?

Mr Laughren: Not only has the Treasurer turned a blind eye to that, but this year he put new money into the current cost allowance of $140 million to these same companies, which is exactly the same kind of tax credit we are talking about.

Could the Treasurer tell us how he justifies those kinds of tax expenditures to the wealthiest corporations in Canada? At the same time, he is saying to the people at the minimum wage of $5 an hour that they have to pay $360 to him in the way of provincial income taxes at the end of the year. How does he justify that?

Hon R. F. Nixon: I have been able to glance at my book here and the capital tax return is about $650 million this year. The honourable member would also be aware that the announcement of the doubling of the current cost allowance is designed to make this jurisdiction attractive for the investment of funds in production machinery and other capital which is designed to make our economy strong, continue strong and provide jobs. This of course is the answer to why some corporations do not pay taxes. It is because they respond to the requirements of the governments of Canada and Ontario to commit their resources to the expansion of their ability to manufacture and create jobs.

We feel that is the kind of leadership we need. I have a feeling that the knee-jerk socialist responses of the honourable member would simply destroy the economy here and we can thank our lucky stars that they have nothing to do with it.

Mr Jackson: It is interesting to hear an armchair socialist call a knee-jerk socialist by name.

MINISTRY MAILING

Mr Jackson: I have a question for the Minister without Portfolio responsible for women’s issues. Last Friday, women’s groups all across Ontario received a very interesting piece of literature from the government; in fact, from the Ontario women's directorate. It was sent by courier. When they got these envelopes and opened them, they found they were empty. I would like to ask the minister responsible for the directorate and women’s issues just when she was advised of this incident and if she can advise the members of the House just at what cost this incident came to her ministry.

Hon Mrs Wilson: I thank the member opposite for the advice of this incident. I will immediately check into it and determine if, in fact, it did take place and, if so, why.

Mr Jackson: We have established that it did take place. I am surprised that the minister has not received any phone calls. She prides herself on her ability to get out and meet women’s groups. But in fact when these groups called the Ontario women’s directorate and said, “What was supposed to be in this envelope?” they were informed that the entire mailing went out empty. Since this was on a computerized mailing list, one can only assume that it was a rather extensive mailing.

I would like the minister, if she will, to report to the members of this House just exactly what the cost of this empty mailing was, and then to be advised, on behalf of all members of this House, that if she is going to be in such a rush to mail out election material from her ministry, does she not think she should wait a little bit until she has something to put into it?

Hon Mrs Wilson: I have committed to the member that I will look into this incident to determine in fact that it took place and to determine why. I am sorry that he may have been inconvenienced in opening an extra envelope and I will certainly determine what the facts behind that are.

INVESTMENT IN ONTARIO

Ms Oddie Munro: My question is to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology. In his remarks to shareholders at Stelco’s 80th annual meeting, John Allan, chairman of Stelco Inc, expressed his concerns regarding the tendency of governments to look to the service sector rather than the manufacturing sector as the main engine of economic growth. Mr Allan believes that Stelco, and presumably the manufacturing community in general, needs government policies which are geared to giving manufacturers a solid foundation for international competition.

Can the minister describe what the Ontario government and his ministry in particular are doing to encourage continuing investment in our manufacturing sector and in particular in our steel and steel-related industries?

Hon Mr Kwinter: I agree with Mr Allan and I think it is important to know -- as I am sure all members realize -- that Ontario is the manufacturing centre of the country, but I think that the linkage between the service sector and the manufacturing sector is very strong and very important.

The Premier’s Council recognizes the importance of the manufacturing sector and in many of its policies it has actually recommended -- and they have been carried out -- things that will help: the industrial research fund and the centres of excellence, which are really geared to manufacturing co-operation with the research community.

The Treasurer just spoke recently, in the last question, about his particular initiatives where he has doubled the capital cost allowance and that is a tax incentive of about $140 million. All of these things encourage the manufacturing sector.

As for the steel industry in particular, we have been helpful in assisting in some of its problems with the United States as far as the free trade agreement is concerned, and we have been encouraging manufacturers in Ontario who are large steel users. I had the honour on Friday of officiating at the opening of the CAMI operation and they are going to be producing 200,000 cars next year --

The Speaker: Thank you.

Ms Oddie Munro: Given the current pressures, however, on the steel industry from both high interest rates and the high value of the Canadian dollar, can the minister tell this House whether he believes that the Canadian steel industry can maintain and improve its strong international competitive position in the 1990s?

Hon Mr Kwinter: We are really blessed in Ontario in that the steel industry we have here has a reputation of being one of the most efficient, one of the most high-tech, one of the best workforces and one of the best quality steel industries in the world. I think it will continue to maintain that position. However, it is under severe pressure.

The federal government, with its high interest rates and the high value of the Canadian dollar, is putting the industry at a severe disadvantage in world competition. But given the fact that analysts predict the automotive industry should pick up again in 1991, and given the fact that they are positioned to be competitive, I think the future will be good for them.

Mr Pouliot: Check with the Treasurer’s office. His predictions are off 25%.

The Speaker: Order. Member for Lake Nipigon, your colleague wants to ask a question.

PENSION LEGISLATION

Mr Morin-Strom: I have a question for the Minister of Financial Institutions with respect to when he is going to bring in pension reform legislation for the province of Ontario.

Last week the minister said to us that as long as the New Democratic Party is providing effective opposition to the government’s bad legislation on auto insurance, the minister is going to refuse to bring in good legislation on pension reform.

This government has sat on this issue for three years now. Back in March 1989, they issued a number of releases. A major document says, “Ontario unveils proposals for indexing private pensions.” There was to be a 60-day consultation period ending May of last year. We are 12 months later. Can the minister give us a specific date when his pension legislation is coming forward?

Hon Mr Elston: I am pleased that the honourable gentleman has asked and commented in his question about the holdup of our legislation on auto insurance because nothing is clearer than the fact that the NDP official opposition, with its ragtag buddies from the Progressive Conservative Party, is preventing us from processing the legislation to bring into place effective insurance coverage in the province. There are balanced provisions with respect to cost and benefits in store for the people of the province under Bill 68 but those people are preventing our Legislature from functioning.

With respect to pension legislation, how can I promise anybody any progress in this House while the people in the New Democratic Party continue to barrack and prevent us from processing any legislation that is balanced and reasonable? We are, in fact, dealing with all of the material that has come forward with respect to pensions. We are working as hard as we can in processing the legislative agenda that is in front of us and, when we have an opportunity to implement the insurance bill, we will be able to deal more specifically with pension legislation that I am sure those people will help to deal with with dispatch in this House.

Mr Morin-Strom: The minister can run and hide in this Legislature but he will not be able to in an election campaign.

This government has had a majority government for three years now and has done nothing. Basically he is telling us today that the only time we are going to see new pension legislation is when we get a minority government back and we have some say in terms of what he is going to bring forward.

The minister knows that he has been sitting now for five years and the only initiative that has come forward is a result of the accord with the NDP in the last minority government. In the three years of majority government, it has done absolutely zip. Meanwhile, there are thousands of seniors and workers who are nearing pension age who have no protection whatsoever from inflation.

The Speaker: The question?

Mr Morin-Strom: This minister knows that, month by month, there are more people going on to retirement pensions and they have not got the protection of the legislation that the minister promised over a year ago. Can the minister give us a specific date today as to when this legislation is coming forward?

Hon Mr Elston: In this House it is impossible to give any prediction of when legislation will come forward because the opposition will not let us make this place work.

We have been dealing with the material that has come forward, as a result of our document, for consultation. We have looked at what the unions said, and of course the unions will tell the NDP what to say. We have looked at what business has had to say, and of course the PCs will be told by business what they ought to say in opposition.

We will come forward with a balanced presentation of our pension legislation when we, in fact, are able to bring it into the House. It makes no sense for us to bring into this House a piece of legislation that is newly to come forward for consideration, when there are individual people like the member for Welland-Thorold, who spoke for almost a month, took up our business and prevented anybody else from having the floor on the auto insurance material.

It is almost impossible when one member of the Progressive Conservative Party stands up in his place and goes on for days and barracks about other members of this Legislature in a way which is unbecoming not only to that member but to the process in this House. We will bring --

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. What a waste of time. Just listening and watching, I think I am going to ask the Board of Internal Economy for some money for Velcro.

LABOUR DISPUTE

Mr Sterling: In referring to the Minister of Financial Institutions, I would say to him that I would rather be a member of a ragtag party than be a sandbag minister.

The Speaker: Do you have a question?

Mr Sterling: What is the Minister of Education planning to do with regard to the strike in Ottawa-Carleton against the Ottawa Board of Education?

Hon Mr Conway: I thank my learned friend from Manotick for his ongoing interest in the educational situation in Ottawa. I can tell him today what I have told him on a number of previous occasions, and that is, thanks to William Grenville Davis, we have legislation in this province; it is known as Bill 100. I think in an ecumenical way I should say that was one initiative that by and large was well established. It served the province well. It has resolved many more of these situations than it has left unresolved.

I can assure my friend from Manotick that I expect both parties in Ottawa are going to accept their responsibilities under that statute and are going to resolve this difficulty at the earliest opportunity in the best interests of the students involved.

Mr Sterling: I would like to say to the Minister of Education from Eganville, in 1985 the Ontario government supported the Ottawa Board of Education to the tune of 19% of its budget. This year the minister is supporting it to the tune of 7% of its budget. Will he consider increasing the percentage of provincial support so the Ottawa Board of Education can sit down and negotiate with the teachers and perhaps give them a little bit more and settle this whole matter?

Hon Mr Conway: My friend from Manotick used to represent Grenville county, a wonderful part of eastern Ontario, and I cannot imagine that he would expect any good Liberal who has got a commitment to the principle of fairness and equalization to divert provincial grants from areas like Grenville or Glengarry, two parts of eastern Ontario represented by my friends in the third party, areas that have nothing like the enormous industrial and commercial wealth that is to be found in Ottawa, a city, interestingly, of declining enrolment over these past years.

As a Liberal, I want to be fair to everyone, and that means higher provincial grants in Grenville and Glengarry, and yes, Renfrew, and a formula that takes into account the enormous wealth in Ottawa, where we of course expect that local wealth will be applied to the support of schools.

DETROIT INCINERATOR

Mr McGuigan: My question is to the Minister of the Environment. Last week, while watching TV from Detroit, I saw them broadcast the hearings of the Michigan Air Pollution Control Commission. These hearings were on the prospect of cleaning up that garbage incinerator that is spewing effluent down on the people of Essex and Kent counties and, in fact, all of southwestern Ontario. I would like to ask the minister whether the changes that they made are environmentally safe for the people of southwestern Ontario.

Hon Mr Bradley: That is a very good question. The member has asked this previously.

I want to allay the concerns of the leader of the third party, who felt that perhaps this would take up the entire question period, by saying that I am suffering from laryngitis and as a result I may not be able to elaborate as much as I usually do.

The answer to the member’s question is certainly no. We sent the director of the air resources branch of the Ministry of the Environment to testify at this hearing. The problem with the deal for that specific incinerator is that it calls for years of delay before there is an installation of the kind of pollution abatement equipment that we feel is necessary.

The stand we have taken from the beginning is that there is a need for what is called the scrubber baghouse technology. Here they were building a brand-new incinerator where the opportunity was there to install that. The deal they have come up with in fact does not call for that; it calls for too long a delay before there is an installation of the kind of equipment we believe is necessary to protect the people of Essex county, the people of Windsor and indeed the people of Detroit.

Mr McGuigan: This decree was approved by the Michigan commission following a long meeting and, as the minister mentioned, it was over Ontario’s objections. What, if any, further steps can we take to protect the people of southwestern Ontario?

Hon Mr Bradley: The member would recall that the province of Ontario initiated a court case in the state of Michigan in opposition to the incinerator being allowed to start up. In fact, early on in the court proceedings, the operating agency working for the city of Detroit tried to use procedural methods to prevent our case from going forward. We were in fact successful in pushing those aside. We were successful in terms of the court, because the court indicated clearly that the province of Ontario was right in the procedure that it was following. Therefore, it is our intention to continue that court case.

I mentioned at the time when they were talking about a special deal before the commission that it was the intention of the province of Ontario to continue to pursue our court case until such time as they install --

The Speaker: Thank you.

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

Mr Allen: My question is to the Minister of Community and Social Services. One of the major problems affecting the social assistance reforms has been the slow takeup of STEP, the supports to employment program. Various groups coming before the food bank hearings pointed out that, for example, in Toronto the access of the STEP was 0.6%. A survey by the Daily Bread Food Bank indicated that two thirds of the recipients were not aware of the reforms. Another group reported that municipalities in Ontario do not understand the details of the document.

It is becoming clear why that is the case. There is a full-scale revolt, as some would have it, among field workers in the regional offices. Their case loads are so heavy, and the minister has not implemented that particularly important item in the first-stage reforms which asks him to reduce case loads so that the other reforms might go ahead successfully. When is he going to reduce case loads in the family benefits sector in the regional offices?

Hon Mr Beer: We are concerned about the increases in case loads that we have had and we have been trying to do a number of things to lessen that increase, particularly so that people can work on STEP, which in terms of the takeup has proven to be a very positive program.

The honourable member would want to know that we have added resources to the ministry to assist in this area. There are still problems that we have not completely overcome, but it is my belief that the approach of the field workers has been a very positive one, and what we are trying to do is to assist them in lowering the case load. I would hope that, barring a series of major shifts and more people having to go on to family benefits, we would be able to see some progress there. We recognize that for STEP to work properly, our staff must have the time to be able to deal with the clients.

That is one of the reasons, as the honourable member knows, that we put out this pamphlet to advertise STEP and to try to get more people to take it up.

Mr Allen: The pamphlet will not help if the workers will not pass it on, and that is basically what is happening. The information is not being passed on, deliberately, because of the additional case load that will be entailed.

The minister may want to go hack to the document and realize that between 1980-81 and 1986-87, the case load of those workers went up 33% and the workload per case went up 41%. They stood at 332 persons on the average that was the responsibility of a single worker. Our survey around the province indicates those numbers are still in effect, still over 300, and in the city of Toronto at this stage it is 339-plus persons per worker. You cannot get blood out of a stone and you cannot push workers beyond a certain point. When is the minister going to reduce the case load in order to make the whole Social Assistance Review Committee reform effective out there in the field?

Hon Mr Beer: I think there are two points I would want to make to the honourable member. None the less, with the heavy case loads, in fact the number of people who are joining and taking advantage of STEP is going up, and we can show that through the statistics. We recognize that to the extent we can deal more effectively with the issue of case load, in fact that will be able to go up at an even greater rate. I can assure the honourable member that that is an issue of some concern, not only to me but to all of us who want this program to work, and we are trying to bring forward a number of initiatives that will see that case load drop.

ACCESS TO POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr Pope: My question is to the Minister of Education and Colleges and Universities. I gave him some indication earlier that I would be asking.

Last December I raised the problem of admission of certain northern Ontario students to the school of pharmacy at the University of Toronto. Dean Perrier of the University of Toronto saw fit to reply to the minister, and I will just quote one paragraph from that letter very briefly:

“It is ironic that Mr Pope and the Lauzons have criticized the policy of regional admission quotas, which is designed to assure students in areas outside Metropolitan Toronto, in particular northern and eastern Ontario, have access to the faculty. Without the quota system, Metro Toronto students would dominate our faculty student body. For example, while Metro Toronto and Mississauga have approximately 30% of Ontario’s population, 45% of the most qualified students would have come from this area.”

Does the Minister of Colleges and Universities share Dean Perrier’s attitude and opinion that students from eastern and northern Ontario are less academically qualified and less intelligent than students from Toronto?

Hon Mr Conway: I have been in this assembly for 13 years with the member for Cochrane South, and I have known him in those years to be an intelligent and in most cases fair-minded fellow.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order.

Hon Mr Conway: Setting aside the peculiar fact that he is not supporting his northern colleague in the leadership campaign. I can tell him that is not the way I would read Dean Perrier’s letter, and I am certain that is not the way the honourable member for Cochrane South reads the letter.

Mr Pope: I certainly do. According to him, academic qualifications will be the cornerstone of admissions to his faculty and he thinks that northern Ontario students, given the academic qualification test, would be less qualified and would have less of a per capita admission.

Mr B. Rae: That isn’t what he’s saying.

Mr Pope: It certainly is what he is saying. He is saying they would have 45% and not 30%.

I want to ask the Minister of Colleges and Universities, since the regional quotas are not being relied upon by this faculty -- in fact, 43% of the students are coming from the greater Toronto area, and in fact it is not 30%, which it would be if the regional quota system were put in place -- when are we going to get some fairness and equality for eastern and northern Ontario students in admissions to professional schools in this province?

Hon Mr Conway: If the honourable member for Cochrane South is to be believed, then perhaps the member for Nipissing is better off than we might imagine in this leadership campaign.

Mr Villeneuve: Quite an answer.

Mr McCague: What’s that got to do with it?

Hon Mr Conway: Well, I have to say to my fairminded friends in the Tory caucus that for the member for Cochrane South, the former Attorney General of this province, to get up and characterize Dean Perrier’s letter in the way he has is, quite frankly, not to the credit of our friend from Timmins. He is just better than that.

I have pursued the member’s interest in this case. I have spoken to the family, I have talked to the faculty of pharmacy at the University of Toronto, and the dean has assured me that the Lauzon case was one where the individual applicant was not admitted because the academic standing and the score on the standardized test, the so-called PCAT, were not as high as they had to be to meet the minimum for the year in which she had applied.

It is my view, on the basis of all things taken into account, that the system that is in place is quite fair and that in fact the admissions of students from northern and eastern Ontario in the last three or four years have been above what the quota would have called for. So I think, all things taken into account, the system is fair and it is not at all as described by my friend from Timmins.

DECENTRALIZATION OF GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

Mr M. C. Ray: I have a question for the Treasurer, and it concerns again the question of the government policy of relocation of government jobs to areas outside the Metropolitan Toronto area and in particular to the city of Windsor.

The Treasurer will know that last week I asked the Minister of Government Services whether or not the budget the Treasurer has prepared included funds for the relocation of government jobs to the city of Windsor. The minister neither confirmed nor denied that the budget did provide such money, but he did indicate the matter was under review.

I would like now to direct the same question to the Treasurer, and I ask: When can the city of Windsor and the residents of the city of Windsor expect some positive action on this very important matter to our community?

Hon R. F. Nixon: I want to congratulate the honourable member on the informed and, in fact, relentless way in which he pursues this matter of such importance to his own community.

The honourable member would recall there was a reference, somewhat vague if not veiled, in the budget speech that indicated the policy of the government to move full-time government jobs out of the greater Toronto area was going to continue. We had substantial success in the 1,600 to 1,700 jobs located in northern Ontario, with the ancillary commitment of $300 million in capital.

Mr D. S. Cooke: No, Windsor is in the south.

Hon R. F. Nixon: This is well received by the thoughtful people in the north, although it has never been reflected by any of the NDP members representing the north, mostly because they are not thoughtful.

The Speaker: That completes the allotted time for oral questions and responses.

Hon R. F. Nixon: Shucks.

The Speaker: I know many members will be very disappointed, but it is now time for petitions.

PETITIONS

NATUROPATHY

Mr Mackenzie: I have a petition. It is signed by 20 citizens speaking on behalf of the Natural Healers Association. I affix my name to it and forward it.

GREATER TORONTO AREA

Mr Philip: I have another petition, which reads as follows:

“Whereas the Peterson Liberal government has decided to charge drivers in greater Metropolitan Toronto $90 per year for a car licence plate while at the same time only charging residents in other parts of Ontario $33 per year for identical licence plates;

“Whereas the same Peterson Liberal government has in this year’s budget imposed other taxes and levies on the people in businesses in greater Metropolitan Toronto which are not imposed on those in other parts of Ontario;

“Whereas these taxes which are not based on income or profits hurt seniors and others on fixed incomes;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislature of Ontario to express to the Liberal government our great disapproval of its policies of tax discrimination against the people of greater Metropolitan Toronto.”

I have signed it and I agree with it. I would have given it a

summary, but my

summary would have been longer.

DRUG BENEFITS

Mr Cordiano: I have a petition that reads as follows:

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to have a drug plan legislated such that individuals who are receiving CPP disability pensions be permitted equal recognition as conventional CPP recipients.”

It is signed by 63 people and I have also signed the petition.

WATER-PLAY FACILITY

Mr Ballinger: I am in receipt of three petitions, one on behalf of the Honourable Charles Beer, to the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. The first reads as follows:

“We, the undersigned, beg leave to petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

“We, the undersigned, strongly object to the proposed water-play facility at Boyd Conservation Area.”

It is signed by 467 people.

LICENCE PLATE FEES

Mr Ballinger: I have another petition, which reads as follows:

“To the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“We, the undersigned, beg leave to petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

“We wish to express our opposition to the increase to $90 for car licences for Brock township residents.”

It is signed by 119 residents.

AUTOMOBILE INSURANCE

Mr Ballinger: I have another petition, which reads as follows:

“To the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“We, the undersigned, beg leave to petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

“We hereby register our deep concern and outrage over the provisions of the new Ontario motorist protection plan.

“We respectfully request that the Legislature consider substantial amendment of, or complete rejection of the Ontario motorist protection plan, as presently proposed.”

It is signed by 64 signatures.

EMPLOYER HEALTH TAX

Mr Adams: I have a petition concerning the employer health tax on behalf of almost 300 people who live in the vicinity of Peterborough. These include virtually everyone who is actively involved in the real estate market at the present time. It reads:

“We, the undersigned, wish to draw your attention again to the inequity of the newly imposed employer health tax. This tax should be fair. Everyone should contribute and pay a health tax. Everyone should pay the same percentage. Everyone’s tax should be based on the same level of remuneration, not some before expenses and some after expenses.”

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 1990

Mr Allen moved first reading of Bill 165,

An Act to amend the Environmental Protection Act.

Motion agreed to.

The Speaker: The member may have a brief explanation, or was that done in members’ statements?

Mr Allen: No, I will give the statement of purpose here.

The bill is designed to address the garbage crisis in Ontario by amending the Environmental Protection Act to provide regulations that would, for example, establish provincial programs to help municipalities achieve a 50% reduction of garbage going to landfills by the year 2000, establish timetables for prohibiting the disposal of certain wastes in landfills, lay down a plan for the phasing out of used containers and packaging for which there are alternatives, designate disposable products for which there are non-disposable substitutes available and prohibit the use of such products, prescribe durability standards for consumer products, require municipalities to establish blue box recycling programs and require all residents to separate their recyclables.

JABKO HOLDINGS LTD ACT, 1990

Mr Owen moved first reading of Bill Pr76,

An Act to revive Jabko Holdings Ltd.

Motion agreed to.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

TIME ALLOCATION (CONTINUED)

Resuming the adjourned debate on government notice of motion number 30 on time allocation in relation to Bill 68,

An Act to amend certain Acts respecting Insurance.

The Speaker: I believe the member for Leeds-Grenville adjourned the debate. Do you have any further comments?

Mr Runciman: You have an excellent memory, Mr Speaker.

It was interesting to note the comments of the Minister of Financial Institutions in respect to me during a response to a question earlier, when he was expressing concern about some comments I was making about some of his Liberal colleagues and suggesting these were some sort of personal attacks. I want to say that they are not personal attacks at all. If anyone wants to look at the record, I think it clearly indicates a failing on the part of the members in respect to properly representing the constituents, the people who put them in office.

All I have been attempting to do is draw those shortcomings, those failings of the Liberal members of this Legislature to the attention of their constituents and again reinforce, if you will, the fact that these people are simply not doing the job that you put them in office to do. They are simply facts.

I am not launching any personal attacks on the character of any individual member of this Legislature; I am simply saying, reiterating time and time again, that the Liberal members have failed to do their jobs on this particular piece of no-fault legislation, as mean and nasty a piece of legislation as this House has seen. It is going to hurt innocent accident victims right across this province. It is a harmful piece of business, a nasty piece of business, and I think the Liberal members have a great deal to answer for in respect to the way they have failed to stand up on behalf of their constituents.

They have simply failed all those people in this province, the head-injured, people who are going to suffer psychological injuries and damage as a result of auto accidents, who will no longer, as a result of this legislation, have the opportunity to take the at-fault driver to court, to gain access to the courts. That is a reality.

Again, it may bother some of the Liberal backbenchers and some of the Liberal members of the executive council because they simply have not been doing their jobs. I know that hurts. They do not like me to say that; they do not like me mentioning their names and telling their constituents, urging their constituents to give these people a call and tell them to start doing their jobs, start representing their constituents in a way in which they should be representing them.

They are not doing it, they have not been doing it and they show no inclination whatsoever up to this point to do anything about this very dangerous piece of legislation. Certainly they do not seem to express any concern about the motion we are dealing with today, which shuts off meaningful debate, restricts debate to the point where only the critic for the NDP and the critic for the Progressive Conservative Party have an opportunity to speak at length in respect to this legislation.

We have heard some criticism -- this is my fourth day on my feet speaking to this bill -- and criticism of the NDP member who went on for a considerably longer period. The reality is that the government, in an arrogant overreaction, cut off debate on this bill and brought in time allocation which would restrict debate to two days in committee of the whole and one day on third reading -- three days on this piece of legislation which is going to affect six million drivers in this province and many others in respect to families and friends who could be negatively impacted upon as a result of an auto accident in this province.

Mr Kormos: The Liberals don’t care about little people, just big corporate insurance executives. That’s who they owe their allegiance to.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Kormos: Well, it’s true, Mr Speaker.

Interjection.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Welland-Thorold, the member for Middlesex.

Mr Runciman: This is a tag-team match.

Mr Reycraft: You and the socialists.

Mr Runciman: Let’s face it, these guys are in government because of the socialists. That is a reality. The Liberals kissed their butts.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order.

Mr Kormos: So what do they owe to the insurance companies?

The Deputy Speaker: Order, the member for Welland-Thorold.

Mr Kerrio: But we divorced them.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Niagara Falls.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. Please, the standing orders.

Mr Runciman: It is ironic having these comments come across the floor about the Conservatives being in bed with the socialists. Let’s face the facts: we are talking about a government and some of its key players who certainly do not have any difficulty with socialism at all. We had the most massive intervention in the private sector in the form of Bill 2, the establishment of the Ontario Automobile Insurance Board, back in the fall of 1987, the most massive intervention in the private sector in the history of this province. You did not mind that. Your key players did not mind that.

I call that socialism, folks, so do not throw those sorts of things across the floor at me. We are standing up here because --

The Deputy Speaker: The standing orders call for the members to address the Speaker directly and only the Speaker. I am sure the member for Leeds-Grenville will remember that, please.

Mr Runciman: Mr Speaker, I simply want to point out to you that one of the key players in this legislation is the Attorney General of Ontario. The Attorney General happens to be, for the edification of the viewers, perhaps, when we are talking about socialism, a former fund-raiser for the New Democratic Party of Ontario. Are people aware of that? One of the key players in formulating this legislation was a former fund-raiser for the New Democrats.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Niagara Falls, please.

Mr Runciman: We talk about the rationale behind this legislation. These folks are in this because of what they perceive to be short-term political gain.

Mr Kormos: They’re in it because --

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Welland-Thorold, please.

Mr Runciman: We look at the Attorney General, a staunch supporter of the NDP a few years ago. Now he is sitting in the front benches of the Liberal Party of Ontario. Why is he there? He is there because he is an opportunist. I believe he went there because he had an opportunity to have access to power and influence on legislation such as this and Bill 2, this massive intervention in the private sector.

The Deputy Speaker: Will the member stick to the debate, please.

Mr Runciman: Okay. I was agitated, Mr Speaker, as you can appreciate.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Runciman: I am certainly trying to stick to the debate, Mr Speaker, and to the terms that you are laying down for me.

I spent some time yesterday talking about the member for Hamilton Centre and the difficulty she has faced as a result of her failure, if you will, to speak out on behalf of the head-injured and others who are going to be negatively impacted upon by this legislation. I have a letter which I think is of some interest and related to what I said yesterday about that member. It is addressed to the Hamilton Centre Provincial Liberal Association, dated 26 March, and reads:

“Dear Sirs:

“Recently I received a ticket order form for a fund-raiser for Lily Oddie Munro to be held on 1 May 1990.

“Liberalism, the Liberal Party and my family go back many years, as some of you may be aware. As a matter of fact, my father ran for the Liberal Party provincially in the September 1963 election. I remember working on that election as well as many others, both federally and provincially. As well, I recall my unquestioned commitment and financial support to the Liberal Party during the time it was in the desert, so to speak, and out of power.

“During those years the Liberal Party espoused those principles and ideals that made one proud to be a Liberal. The Liberal Party’s introduction of the Ontario motorist protection plan and Lily Oddie Munro’s recent position on this legislation, as observed in committee, has forced me to re-evaluate my support for the Liberal Party. All of us can argue the merits of this issue until doomsday. That is not the purpose of this letter.

“In short, I oppose this legislation because it takes away fundamental rights of justice from innocent motor vehicle accident victims. This situation is totally unacceptable to me as a citizen of this province. Please accept this correspondence as notice of my desire to cancel my membership in the provincial Liberal Party.”

And this is of special interest to you, Mr Speaker:

“Please also take note that I have joined the provincial Conservative Party as a personal sign of protest and will contribute time and money to their candidates in an attempt to rid Ontario of this outrageous legislation. Moreover, I will actively encourage all of my friends, family and associates to turn their support away from the provincial Liberal Party. What the provincial Liberal Party is doing to this province by implementing the Ontario motorist protection plan is scandalous.”

It is signed by Jerry Ingrassia from Hamilton, Ontario, a resident of the Hamilton Centre riding, which is supposedly being represented by that member referred to in the letter.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Runciman: I want to very briefly run through the amendments, or at least some of them, that the Progressive Conservative Party is going to be introducing during the very brief committee-of-the-whole process available.

Mr Wildman: You won’t have time; only two days.

Mr Runciman: We will not have time to discuss these at length, because of the Liberal government’s time allocation motion which is cutting off meaningful debate. We have a number, which I am going to put on the record now, and I want to again express concern about the fact that members of my party and members of the NDP are not going to have an opportunity to deal with these amendments in a meaningful way, and a host of other concerns which they are simply not going to have an opportunity to talk about because of the limitation the Liberals have placed upon debate on this bill.

They do not want the people of Ontario to understand what the implications of this legislation are, how negatively it is going to impact on all of us in this province. They simply do not want the people to know. They get up and talk about the no-fault side of this thing. Obviously that is in their best interest, but they do not talk about the significant downsides to this legislation, and that of course is the reason behind this effort to restrict and cut off debate and limit the opportunity for opposition members, limited in number as we are, to have any significant impact on this legislation in respect to perhaps having it amended in a way which will benefit Ontarians generally.

The first amendment will be to

section 57 of the bill, subsection 32la(1) of the act. As currently written, this

section of Bill 68 eliminates an accident victim’s right to sue for economic loss unless his or her injuries meet the threshold. The Progressive Conservative amendment would change the threshold so that it applies only to non-economic loss or non-economic damage. Every accident victim in Ontario would still be entitled to sue for economic loss or damage.

In no jurisdiction in North America in which a system of threshold automobile insurance is in place has the right to sue for economic loss been tied into meeting the threshold test. In all other jurisdictions the right to sue for economic loss is maintained, irrespective of whether or not one can sue for pain and suffering. Although there may be some argument that there is some moral justification for giving up the right to claim for pain and suffering in return for increased no-fault benefits, there can be no similar moral or social justification that an individual should be forced to give up the right to sue for loss of earnings that are not covered by the no-fault benefits

schedule in return for reducing premiums at large of the motoring public of Ontario.

Without full compensation for economic loss, innocent accident victims could lose their homes or their businesses, or both. The Ontario Automobile Insurance Board, on page 47 of its report to the Lieutenant Governor in Council, dated 14 July 1989, stated the following: “Threshold no-fault systems permit recovery of economic losses, but preclude recovery of non-pecuniary losses where the level of injury sustained fails to satisfy a defined threshold, which may be verbal or monetary.”

Clearly, the Kruger commission had indicated that any threshold system considered under its mandate would permit recovery for economic loss. In fact, the Kruger commission only considered threshold plans which provide full compensation for economic loss to innocent accident victims.

I might say that our party struggled with the question of whether or not we should be introducing amendments, because we do not think this legislation, the no-fault thrust, is at all in the best interest of Ontarians. We certainly would like to see a retention of tort and changes recommended by Justice Osborne and others.

But we realize that we are dealing with a huge majority of the Liberal government, that this legislation is before us and that perhaps what we have to do, as an opposition party, is present amendments which can improve the legislation, make it better for Ontarians, even though we have some strong disagreements with the principle of no-fault.

We do not think it is the way to go, but the legislation is before us and we feel, as an opposition party, that it is our responsibility to introduce these amendments on behalf of the many interest groups that appeared before us in an effort to try and make this legislation somewhat more palatable.

The next amendment we will be introducing during committee of the whole is again to

section 57, subsection 231a(

l) of the act. As currently written, this

section of the bill states that disfigurement must be permanent and serious in order for an accident victim to be allowed to proceed with litigation.

The Progressive Conservative amendment places the word “or” between the words “permanent” and “serious.” It lessens the burden of proof for innocent accident victims. An injury need not be permanent to be serious or likewise be serious to be permanent. Placement of the word “or” between the words “permanent” and “serious” does not detract from the government’s stated purpose, to compensate those who are most affected by an automobile accident.

Requirement of permanency together with seriousness introduces value judgements in the threshold test. What if an injury is permanent and serious presently, but may not be considered serious permanently or seriously permanent? Would injury still be considered permanent if it is anticipated that with medical advances there could be remedies in the future? As written, this

section of Bill 68 has too much subjective terminology.

The member for Mississauga South, who has been very active in support of the disabled community, reminds me that this amendment which I have just read into the record has been requested by the disabled community. I want to applaud the efforts of the member for Mississauga South, who is constantly speaking out in support of the disabled in the province.

The next amendment we will be introducing in the very brief time allocated to us by the Liberal government is again to

section 57, clause 231a(l)(

b) of the act. As currently written, this

section of the bill presents a very restrictive threshold which must be met in order for accident victims to be allowed to proceed with litigation.

The Progressive Conservative amendment recognizes psychological injuries and removes subjective terminology such as “important bodily function,” “continuing injury” and “physical in nature.” The threshold definition specifically excludes emotional and mental injuries and it is difficult to predict with precision how the courts will interpret these stringent requirements.

It has been suggested that Bill 68 is most closely related to the Michigan threshold. However, in Michigan the injured person need not prove that the injury is permanent nor must the injury be objectively manifested. Rather, a Michigan claimant will meet his state’s threshold if the injury is both serious and medically identifiable. There is no requirement in Michigan that the injury be continuing or physical in nature or affect an important bodily function.

The requirement that the injury be physical in nature is discriminatory. Psychological injuries, including depression, anxiety and pain disorders, are real and legitimately disabling.

Section 15(1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that, “Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.”

I will be talking about that element of this legislation at greater length a little later. There is a good chance that Bill 68 is inconsistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and I will, as I said, be discussing an opinion given by Gordon Henderson, a noted constitutional expert and former colleague of the Attorney General, with respect to that matter.

Our next amendment is again to

section 57 of the bill, subsection 231 a(4) of the act. As it is currently written, this

section allows insurance companies two occasions to challenge accident victims with respect to the threshold. Even if the victim is successful on a pre-trial motion to determine whether he or she meets the threshold, the defence can still raise the issue at trial.

The Progressive Conservative amendment removes this

section from the bill. There is absolutely no incentive for a victim to have his or her case determined at any time other than the trial. A plaintiff may incur considerable expense in pursuing a claim, only to find out at the time of trial that his or her injuries do not pass the threshold. Such uncertainty will discourage a number of injured accident victims whose injuries would pass the threshold, if they would only incur the expense to test the threshold.

The inherent uncertainty will mean it is only the rich who will test the threshold. Lower-income individuals will be discouraged by the high costs of attempting to test the threshold, and such a result of justice only for the rich is clearly undesirable.

I doubt if any of the Liberal members were paying any attention to that when I talked about the Premier, the member for London Centre, yesterday with respect to not having any empathy or understanding for those less fortunate in society. I clearly pointed out that this legislation is going to impact negatively very much upon those in society who are unemployed, individuals earning minimum wage and those who have significant difficulties in society. Those are the kinds of people who are going to suffer most harshly as a result of this legislation.

I suggested that perhaps the reasons the Premier does not have any real appreciation of the plight of individuals and families who are living in such economic circumstances is the fact that he has never had to face those kinds of difficulties in his own life. He has never had to worry about meeting a mortgage payment or putting groceries on the table to feed his children. He was born into a very comfortable existence.

We talked about one of his main occupations on the weekend being jogging around his Rosedale mansion, checking out blue boxes of his neighbours to see what kind of wine they are consuming. That is the priority of the Premier of this province, when we are talking about legislation before this House which he has instigated as a result of his 1987 promise, an irresponsible promise which could not be kept. We have brought in legislation which is going to hurt the people in our society who can least afford to be hurt. I think if we look back on the Premier’s own lifestyle and upbringing, perhaps that will provide us with some understanding and some explanation of where we are today.

The next amendment is again to

section 57 of the bill, clause 231b(l)(

c) of the act. As currently written, this

section of the bill states that insurance companies will be required to pay benefits only after the accident victim has exhausted all benefits available under any income continuation plan he or she has.

The Progressive Conservative amendment removes this

section of the bill. Insurance companies must pay the applicable no-fault benefits regardless of any income continuation plans held by the accident victim. Income continuation plans are implemented for the benefit of employees in order to protect the interruption of their income due to some other sickness.

It is always understood that the risk of income loss due to an injury in an automobile accident would ultimately be covered by automobile insurance. If these losses are no longer to be covered under the proposed auto insurance plan, it clearly has to be more costly to employers and employees to provide these income continuation benefits.

Our next amendment which I will put on the record -- we may be discussing some of these at length a little later on --

Mr Wildman: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I do not like to interrupt my friend the member for Leeds-Grenville, but I do not see a quorum. If that is the case, it certainly indicates the arrogance of the Liberal Party, not willing to even listen to this debate.

The Deputy Speaker ordered the bells rung.

Mr Runciman: I think it is indicative of the interest of the Liberal members when they have the largest majority government in the history of this province and they cannot even maintain a quorum in this House. They are trying to cut off debate by the opposition. They are not giving us an opportunity to discuss this.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The member for Leeds-Grenville will debate the motion.

Mr Runciman: We are talking about time allocation. I think it is relevant to mention that we had to have a quorum call because of a 94-seat majority government that could not maintain a quorum in this House.

I think it clearly indicates the arrogance of this government, the way it has treated this issue from the beginning, the way it has treated witnesses who have appeared before us, the way it has treated Her Majesty’s loyal opposition with respect to the opportunity to have meaningful debate on this issue, and the way it has treated, with contempt I believe -- I said this yesterday in regard to the interjections of those members of the Liberal Party who were here yesterday when I was expressing concerns that have been presented to us by thousands of people across this province.

We had these inane interjections coming from Liberal backbenchers. To me that shows contempt for those people who appeared before us as witnesses, people like Barbara Turnbull, people like Jeremy Rempel, who appeared before us in a wheelchair, talking about his accident and his concern for future innocent accident victims in this province. The Liberal backbenchers and their cabinet colleagues are just showing contempt for all of those very caring, concerned people, who have no vested interest, nothing to gain, by the passage or failure of this legislation. They were there because they genuinely, sincerely care about future innocent accident victims in this province.

I think it has to go on the record that, with 94 Liberal members, they cannot even maintain a quorum on a consistent basis in this Legislature. The reality is that most of them have nothing to do anyway. What they are all here for is hoping to get a chauffeur-driven limousine, be a parliamentary assistant, get access to one of these unlimited expense accounts, plush offices, perhaps a chairmanship of a crown corporation or an agency, board or commission of the government. They are obviously not here to stand up on behalf of the innocent accident victims of this province.

Mr Neumann: On a point of order. Mr Speaker: I believe the rules of the House prohibit members from imputing motives to other members.

Mr Wildman: On the point of order, Mr Speaker: The member for Leeds-Grenville did not mean to impute motives to the Liberals. Obviously, the Liberals have no motives.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Leeds-Grenville will proceed and be very careful.

Mr Ballinger: A right-wing zealot and a socialist you-know-what.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Runciman: Who is that? That is the member for Durham-York. Does he never get tired of having himself around?

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The member for Leeds-Grenville will address the Speaker and watch his words carefully.

Mr Runciman: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Another amendment which will be introduced by the Progressive Conservative Party is again to

section 57 of the bill, clause 23lb(1)(d). As currently written, this

section of the bill forces an accident victim to exhaust all company benefits before an insurance company is required to pay any no-fault benefits.

The Progressive Conservative amendment eliminates this

section of the bill and rightly forces insurance companies to pay no-fault benefits regardless of whether or not the accident victim has a sick leave plan at the place of employment. Under Bill 68, the employee may have to use up sick leave credits and thus lose protection against income loss due to a future sickness or disability. Since the automobile insurer may pay very little where sick leave benefits exist, workers will be paying for automobile insurance for which they have very little chance of collecting compensation. In addition, the cost of sick leave plans will increase.

Sick leave is an earned benefit to protect the employee from interruption of income. It was never intended to protect against loss of income due to automobile accidents. Employees should not have to absorb this loss. This

section provides an incentive for insurance companies to seek out those insureds who have sick leave plans at their places of employment. The bill cannot stop insurance companies from cherry-picking.

We talked about access to the courts in the earlier amendment and the fact that the justice system under this bill in respect to taking the insurance company to court is only going to apply to the rich in society, in respect to their ability to challenge the threshold, to see whether their injuries can pierce the threshold. This is another element that impacts in a dramatic way upon the less fortunate in society.

We are talking about people who for many reasons cannot have income replacement plans, do not have sick leave benefits at their place of employment, or perhaps are unemployed or earning minimum wage or something in that neighbourhood, and are living in Metropolitan Toronto. I am not sure what the survival wage would be in Metropolitan Toronto, but individuals who are living below the poverty line certainly would suffer as a result of this legislation with respect to their ability to get auto insurance, what we are talking about in respect to cherry-picking.

For the benefit of viewers and for the benefit of the one or two Liberal members who may be paying attention to this debate, we are talking about insurance companies that are going to look at the risk any consumer coming to them poses. If a consumer has an income replacement plan, has sick leave benefits, that consumer poses much less of a risk to an insurance company than the individual in society who does not have those kinds of benefits.

What we are going to see is a referral of those individuals to the high-priced Facility Association, because as I said, they pose a higher risk to the insurance company. What we have seen up to this point is a significant increase already in the Facility Association, something up to the neighbourhood of a 300% increase in the past year and a half. Under this legislation, I think we are going to see a much more dramatic increase.

We were talking a couple of days ago about the state of Massachusetts, which instituted a process similar to Bill 2, brought in in 1987. On the last day of public hearings on Bill 2, the establishment of the Ontario Automobile Insurance Board, the establishment of a rate-setting authority by the provincial government, it was indicated that Massachusetts, with a similar system, had close to 60% of drivers in the high-priced Facility and a good chunk of the insurance companies had been chased out of the state.

Despite those warnings and despite that information available to the government, it continued along its course of self-destruction and cost all of us, as taxpayers, millions and millions of dollars We are still paying the bill. There seems to be no end in sight to this government’s ability to mismanage the insurance issue.

The next amendment we will be introducing in committee of the whole, whenever it arrives, is again to

section 57 of the bill, subsection 231b(6) of the act. This

section of the bill states that the collateral source rule of Bill 68 comes into effect on 23 October 1989. That was seven months ago. It should come into effect with the rest of Bill 68. The Progressive Conservative amendment removes this arbitrary inception date. As it is, Bill 68 will not be operational until well into 1990. How far into 1990 depends on how astute certain members of the government may be. But in any event, Bill 68 will not be operational until well into 1990. It is ludicrous to have retroactive sections of this bill, especially when they favour insurance companies.

The legislation calls for the deduction of sick bank benefits, disability benefits, and all other forms of benefits received by any injured individuals from the value of their claims, assuming their claims meet the threshold. The legislation, as written, requires that this deduction occur in respect of any claim of action that arises following 23 October 1989.

Thus, persons injured after 23 October 1989 will be negatively affected. These individuals will lose their sick bank benefits, but receive none of the enhanced benefits which the new legislation proposes by way of the amended no-fault benefits schedule. Persons caught in this grey area are being hit with a double whammy -- lost sick benefits, etc, and none of the promised enhanced benefits.

The government should not, ex post facto, alter terms of automobile insurance contracts resulting in a reduction in benefits for drivers, unless at the same time it forces insurance companies to make a partial, pro rata refund of premium. The government is changing the contract terms without a necessary reflection in price.

Mr Faubert: Back to the researcher. Back to your writers.

Mr Runciman: Again we have the member for Scarborough-Ellesmere. We should really give him a minute to tell us all he knows.

Mr Faubert: I’ve been listening for three days and I haven’t heard a thing from you.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Runciman: I said yesterday that the only thing that member has ever achieved on his own is dandruff.

Mr Faubert: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I take the opportunity to say that he said he would yield the floor to me. If he is doing that, I will so take the floor.

The Deputy Speaker: The member will please sit down. The member for Leeds-Grenville may proceed.

Mr Runciman: Only that gentleman’s varicose veins keep him from being completely colourless.

Mr Faubert: Get a new writer, Bob. I’ve got 1,000 insults too. I’ll send them over to you.

Mr Runciman: I thought it was pretty good myself.

The Deputy Speaker: Order, please.

Mr Runciman: Where was I?

Mr Haggerty: Lost.

Mr Kerrio: You were working up some dandruff.

Mr Faubert: You weren’t anywhere. Back where you started.

Mr Runciman: I will not get into that. I will save my voice for what is more important here. We are talking about the amendments the Progressive Conservative Party is going to introduce during committee of the whole, which we will not have an opportunity to discuss at length because of the restriction placed upon us by the government, so I am taking this opportunity to put those amendments on the record and perhaps explain some of the rationale behind the submission of these amendments.

I was talking about Bill 68 and the collateral source rule. The government’s own actuarial report 24 -- Report on the Hybrid Threshold No-fault Insurance System of 19 June 1989 done by Eckler Partners Ltd -- confirms that a refund is in order. The author of that report, Joe Cheng, writes on page 6 of the report, “Therefore, on the effective (proclamation) date of the hybrid threshold no-fault law, some motorists may get a pro rata refund on their unearned premiums if their current premiums are much higher than the hybrid threshold premiums and if there is a mandatory rollback.”

The next amendment is again to

section 57 of the bill. I want to say that during committee hearings, when we were doing clause-by-clause on this legislation, the committee never got to

section 57. The debate was cut off before committee had the opportunity to talk about amendments such as this in committee during clause-by-clause. Those are the kinds of time restrictions we have been operating under from the outset and that the government has continued to apply to members of the opposition once the debate moved into the Legislature itself, into the assembly.

The government complains about the outdated benefits currently available in the system today. However, it has not indexed the new

schedule of no-fault benefits. The Progressive Conservative amendment provides an indexing formula for the new

schedule of no-fault benefits. The government has said time and again that the new scheme will enhance the archaic levels of compensation. However, by not indexing these new benefits, it is falling into the same trap. No-fault benefits were last altered in 1978. The government sat on a recommendation made by Mr Justice Coulter Osborne that the

schedule of accident benefits be increased immediately.

Why should innocent accident victims suffer a real decrease in benefits when inflation takes place? Given the government’s track record to date, what assurances do we have that the level of benefits will be reviewed periodically, as promised by the minister? Those are the amendments I wish to put on the record today.

I want to talk about a number of other things, and one of them is the constitutionality question I have discussed previously. Hopefully I have the letter from Mr Henderson, which I can read into the record.

We were talking the other day about costs and the irresponsibility of the Liberal government in respect of its handling of the insurance issue and the waste of taxpayers’ dollars.

It has been suggested that anywhere between $12 million and $15 million was wasted on the Ontario Automobile Insurance Board, on its efforts to produce two reports which were ignored by the government and the costs associated with that. There is the $142-