Manitoba Hansard — 15 April 2014 (Sitting 43B, 40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-43b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 43B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 15, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1935 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 15, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 51–The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister for Jobs and the Economy, that Bill 51, The Legislative Assembly Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'Assemblée législa tive, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Swan : This bill amends The Legislative Assembly Act respecting mailing privileges for members of the Assembly in accordance with the recommendations made by Commissioner Michael Werier. Subject to cert ain conditions, members will be allowed to have addressed and unaddressed letters to their constituents delivered by delivery companies or as inserts to local newspapers. This will help to ensure that non- partisan MLA communications are sent to and received by constituents in a cost-effective manner. Mr.

Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? Bill 50–The Protection for Temporary Help Workers Act (Worker Recruitment and Protection Act and Employment Standards Code Amended) Hon. Erna Braun (Minister of Labour and Immigration): I move, seconded by the Minister for Jobs and Economy, that Bill 50, The Protection for Temporary Help Workers Act (Worker Recruitment and Protection Act and Employment Standards Code Amended);

Loi sur la protection des travailleurs temporaires (modification de la

Loi sur le recrutement et la protection des travailleurs et du Code des normes d'emploi) , be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Braun: This legislation will provide protections for vulnerable workers and– that work for temporary agencies and allow them to –the opportunity to seek full-time permanent employment. It provides them the opportunity to have permanent employment after their terms. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Any further introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to petitions.

Employment and Income Assistance– Rental Allowance Increase Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition: The rental allowance for people on employment and income assistance, EIA, in Manitoba has remained effectively flat for o ver 20 years, even while the cost of renting a home has increased steadily.

Despite the many calls from the official opposition caucus, individuals and community groups, and despite the fact that the very same recommendation was made in a final report of the inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death of Phoenix Sinclair, the provincial government has failed to protect the most vulnerable Manitobans by refusing to raise the rental allowance portion of employment and income assistance to 75 per cent of median market-rate rents. Fewer dollars to use for rent forces Manitobans receiving EIA to live in substandard, overcrowded and unsafe conditions.

Fewer dollars available for EIA recipients to rent safe and hygienic housing means incr eased pressure on food banks, the health -care system and other services, as Manitoba families have to divert money for food and other critical necessities to pay for rent.

1936 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Jobs and the Economy to increase the rental allowance for EIA recipients to 75 per cent of median market rent so that EIA recipients can secure clean, safe and affordable housing without sacrificing other necessities such as food and medical expenses. And this petition is signed by M. Foster, C. Westphal, J. Long and many more fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they're deemed to have been received by the House. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Reversal and Referendum Rights Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act is a law that guarantees Manitobans the right to vote in a referendum to either approve or reject increases to the PST and other taxes.

(2) Despite the fact that the right to vote is enshrined in this legislation, the provincial government hiked the P ST to 8 per cent as of July 1st, 2013.

(3) The Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba has asked the courts to rule on whether or not the provincial government broke the law by failing to address the referendum requirement before imposing the PST tax increase on Manitoban families. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the PST increase. And (2) t o urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to vote in a referendum on increases to the PST. And this petition is signed by R. Moir, G. Penner, A. Pruden and many other fine Manitobans. Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act is a law that guarantees Manitobans the right to vote on a referendum to either approve or reject increases to the PST and other taxes.

(2) Despite the fact that the ri ght to vote is enshrined in legislation, the provincial government hiked the PST to 8 per cent as of July 1st, 2013.

(3) The Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba has asked the courts to rule on whether or not the government broke the law failing to address the referendum requirement before imposing the PST tax increase on Manitoban families. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to vote on a referendum on increases to the PST. This petition is submitted on behalf of R. Howard, F. Wilford, J. Lewis and many other fine Manitobans. Farmland School Tax Rebate–Cap Removal Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to eliminate the education property tax on farmland.

Through Bill 47, The Budget Implementation and Tax Statutes Amendment Act, 2013, the provincial government has instead decided to retain the education tax on farmland, cap the tax credit at $5,000 and eliminate the credit for out -of-province landowners. Education tax on farmland is a heavy burden on Manitoba families, limiting farmers ' capacities to expand the size of their operations whil e making them less competitive with neighbouring jurisdictions.

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1937 The $5,000 cap on the rebate imposed by the provincial government does little to ease the burden of high property taxes for Manitoba's farm families. Bill 47 has yet to be approved by the Legislature, and the capping of education tax credits on farmland constitutes yet another broken promise by this provincial government to Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to remove the $5,000 cap on education tax rebates on farmland out of fairness and respect for Manitoba farmers.

And this petition is signed by S. Wollman, K. Wollman, B. Waldner and many, many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Effects on Manitoba Economy Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: The Premier of Manitoba is on record calling the idea of a hike in the PST ridiculous. Economists calculate the PST hike has cost the average family $437 more in taxes after only six months.

Seventy-five per cent of small businesses in Manitoba agree that provincial taxes are discouraging them from growing their businesses. * (13:40) The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association estimates that a 1 per cent increase in the PST will result in a loss to the economy of $42 million and threaten hundreds of jobs in that sector. Partly due to the PST, overall taxes on new investment in Manitoba re cently stood at 26.3 per cent

whereas the Alberta rate was 16.2 per cent and the Ontario rate was 17.9 per cent, according to the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce. The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce are concerned that the PST hike will make an already uncompetitive tax framework even more unattractive to job creators in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the job-killing PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial gover nment to restore the right of Manitobans to reject or approve any increases to the PST through a referendum. This petition is signed by A. Martens, H. Stewart, E. Gudnason and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Cross-Border Shopping Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And these are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba has a thriving and competitive retail environment in communities nea r its borders, including Bowsman, Swan River, Minitonas, Benito, Russell, Binscarth, St -Lazare, Birtle, Elkhorn, Virden, Melita, Waskada, Boissevain, Deloraine, Cartwright, Pilot Mound, Crystal City, Manitou, Morden, Winkler, Plum Coulee, Altona, Gretna, Emerson, Morris, Killarney, Sprague, Vita, Reston, Pierson, Miniota, McAuley, St. Malo, Foxwarren, Roblin and many others.

(2) Both the Saskatchewan PST rate and the North Dakota retail sales tax rate is 5 per cent, and the Minnesota retail sales tax rate is 6 per cent.

(3) The retail sales tax rate is 40 per cent cheaper in North Dakota and Saskatchewan and 25 per cent cheaper in Minnesota as compared to Manitoba.

(4) The differential in tax rates create a disincentive for Manitoban consumers to shop locally to purchase their goods and services. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To acknowledge that the increase in the PST will significantly encourage cross -border shopping and put additional strain on the retail sector, especially for those businesses located close to the – Manitoba's provincial borders. And (2) to urge the provincial government to reverse its PST increase to ensure Manitoban consumers can shop affordably in Manitoba and support local businesses. And this petition has been signed by W. Friesen, C. Doehl, B. Neufeld and many, many more fine Manitobans.

1938 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 Provincial Sales Tax Increase– Reversal and Referendum Rights Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to the petition is as follows:

(1) The Balanced Budget, Fiscal Management and Taxpayer Accountability Act is a law that guarantees Manitobans the right to vote in a referendum to either approve or reject increases to the PST and other taxes.

(2) Despite the fact that the right to vote is enshrined in this legislation, the provincial government hiked the P ST to 8 per cent as of July 1st, 2013.

(3) The Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba has asked the courts to rule on whether or not the government broke the law failing to address the referendum requirement before imposing the PST tax increase on Manitoba families. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to reverse the PST increase.

(2) To urge the provincial government to restore the right of Manitobans to vote in a referendum on increases to the PST. This petition is signed by S. Greaves, B. Friesen, C. McDougall and many more fine Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Erna Braun (Minister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, it's my pleasure to table the 2013 Workers Compensation Board annual report, the 2013 annual report of the workers' compensation Appeal Commission and Medical Review Panel and the Workers Compensation Board five-year plan for the years 2014 to 2018. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports?

Seeing none, we'll move on to ministerial statements? ORAL QUESTIONS Mr. Speaker: I have no guests to introduce at this time, so we'll proceed directly to oral questions. Contract Tendering Process Auditor General's Report Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): In her recent annual report to the Legislature, the Auditor General found that there was over a quarter of a billion dollars in untendered contracts issued during her 18-month period, and, Mr. Speaker, this doesn't even include the $159- million untendered contract with STARS.

She also noted that these untendered contracts came with an increased risk of impropriety, or to use a different word, Mr. Speaker, an increased likelihood of corruption. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier inform the House how much of that quarter of a billion dollars was spent improperly? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we do take the Auditor General's report seriously and we appreciate the advice she's given us, and we will certainly be looking at the recommendations they have with respect to untendered contracts.

There are specific policies in place which allow for various forms of sole -sourcing of contracts during periods when another service may not be immediately available and the service is needed for emergency purposes or continuity purposes. So there was a policy rationale for the STARS service to be brought to Manitoba and to be continued in Manitoba at a time of flood recovery within this province. And so, Mr. Speaker, we know the Auditor General wants to ensure good value for public money. We do too, while ensuring Manitobans have the services they need when they need them. Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, the Premier once again did not answer the question, so I'll answer it for him, Mr. Speaker. The Auditor General found that half of the NDP's untendered contracts did not meet the criteria that would have allowed the government to award the contract without a competitive bidding process. According to her findings, many of these contracts were awarded without any competing bids simply because they were, quote unquote, favoured by the department. She noted also, and I quote, that Manitoba citizens may not have received the best value, end quote. Mr.

Speaker, does the Premier believe that Manitobans receive the best value when the NDP

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1939 government awards contracts to people and businesses because they are favoured? Mr. Selinger: Well, Mr. Speaker, I would just ask the member asking the question to bear in mind that it was this government that improved the scope of responsibility for the Auditor General. We were the ones that gave the Auditor General the ability to look at value-for-the-money audits because we recognize that that kind of advice can help improve the efficiency and effectiveness of delivery and services of government.

Sole-sourced contracts can be awarded where they will provide for continuity of service or provide for an immediate need. Where the Auditor General feels there is insufficient documentation or improper justification, that will be taken into account in any future policies that we develop. Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, untendered contracts are required to be disclosed to the public and for a very good reason. But the Auditor General found that the NDP isn't even disclosing all of their untendered contracts to their favourite suppliers.

She sampled 60 contr acts and discovered that 23 of these contracts were, in fact, untendered, Mr. Speaker, and of those 23 untendered contracts, half of them weren't disclosed in the public database as required by law. Why did they break the law again? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, that's exactly the kind of advice which we think will be valuable in informing government on how to improve the delivery of services. And there is improvements that can be made, as was identified by the Auditor General, and that's exactly what we're going to do. We're going to take the recommendations seriously.

We're going to continue to ensure that we have a proper balance in terms of accountability. That's why we gave the additional powers to the Auditor General to do this kind of work and tha t's why we take the advice seriously. And I'm sure that our public service will be following up on it because we will ask them to do that. * (13:50) PST Increase Recreational Activities Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, recreation activities are t he backbone in small communities. Volunteers donate time and energy to ensure that these activities continue at a minimal cost.

The communities of Arborg and Bifrost have had their costs skyrocketed thanks to the spenDP. A 14 per cent increase in the PST equals almost $17,000 more in costs a year alone. Mr. Speaker, the spenDP broke the law and didn't call a referendum, and now the fallout is clear. Recreation activities in Manitoba are suffering financially due to the illegal tax grab. Why did they wa nt to shut down recreation in Manitoba? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): You know what, Mr.

Speaker, you know, I –first off, I find it very ironic that the member opposite would get up and ask any question about Arborg aft er the member for Midland (Mr. Pedersen) this morning got up and criticized our investment on Highway 68, saying it's a highway that nobody travelled on. I'd like to ask on the record–and I know it's a rhetorical question; we're in government, we can't – members opposite –but I'd like to ask, will the member from Midland, will the member asking this question, apologize for insulting the people from the Interlake? Mr. Graydon: Mr.

Speaker, it won't be long that that member will have the opportunity to ask questions. Activities such as –the communities of Arborg and Bifrost will have to pay almost $600 more in hydro, almost $200 more on natural gas and, thanks to the PST being applied to insurance, will now pay a whopping $3,453.79 in insurance for the coming year. The government went door to door, and each time the door opened, they made a promise to not raise the taxes. The government lied and raised the PST. Mr.

Speaker, this spenDP government tax grab equals almost $17,000 that will not go to recreation activities in the communities of Arborg and Bifrost. Why is the spenDP trying to shut down recreation activities while at the same time lining their own– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member's time has expired.

1940 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr. Speaker, no apology from members opposite for insulting the people of Interlake. Highway 68 is an important link in the Interlake, and there are many people travel on every day, and I ask the member from Midland to stand up and apologize for insulting the people from the Interlake. And to the member opposite, Mr.

Speaker, before he starts measuring the curtains in the minister's office, is one of the reasons we're g oing to be fighting to be government in 2016 is to make sure we don't go back to the '90s when they cut funding to municipalities, when they did nothing in terms of Interlake roads, when they did nothing in terms of affordability of things like hydro rates. I want to say on the record that this government has made it more affordable for communities like Arborg on issues like equalizing the hydro rates, but also, we're putting links in the Interlake like we are across the province.

We don't have a map like they did which ended at the Highway 1. We invest in every single– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Graydon: We didn't hear an apology from this minister who has refused to upgrade the highway to keep 500 jobs in this province. Activities such as Ukrainian dancing, minor hockey, summer day camps and curling will be threatened by this 14 per cent PST increase. The community will now have to pay almost $17,000 more PST than last year, making it harder for the community to run these worthwhile activities. Why did this NDP government lie to the people of Arborg?

Mr. Speaker, why is this NDP government taking the vote tax and shutting down community programs for young people in our province? Mr. Ashton : Mr. Speaker, I was just in Arborg. I had a public meeting on infrastructure. My advice to the people of Arborg is don't believe a word the Tories say about the Interlake, because they are about divide this province. And, you know, it's interesting, because I was joined by the m ember for the Interlake. I also will say to the members –the people from Arborg that they've got an MLA that fights for the Interlake. That's one of the reasons –it's one of the reasons, Mr.

Speaker, that we've paved Highway 68. It's RTAC. And for the first time in Interlake history –which is Manitoba history, for the member opposite –we now have an east-west strategic trade link in the Interlake. We're proud of that. This is a party that governs for all Manitobans, including the Interlake. ER Services Case Concern Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I heard from a very upset and scared mother last evening. She was stuck in the Grace Hospital ER waiting room with her son who needed care. Her son is a type 1 diabetic.

He had passed out, fell, smas hed his head on a concrete floor and seizured. Despite all of that, he was stuck in the waiting room for six hours. The waiting room was full, the ER hallways were full, even though this NDP government promised to end hallway medicine 15 years ago. So I'd like to ask this Minister of Health to tell this mother why her very ill son had to wait six hours before being seen. Hon.

Erin Selby (Minister of Health): I thank the member for bringing the question to the House, and I would ask if she has any informat ion that she could pass it along to my office so perhaps we could connect with the family and find out exactly what happened there. Nobody wants to see their family member wait, particularly in a case when they're worried about their loved ones. We don't want to see that either. Manitobans expect the highest care and that's what we want to provide with them, Mr. Speaker. We certainly want to make sure that when they go to the emergency room that they get the help that they need.

If they haven't got that help that they need, we want to know why. If something's gone wrong, we want to find out, and if there's something we can do better, we want to do that. We're bringing in a number of initiatives to try to take some of the weight off of the emergency rooms, redirecting to people who may have less serious cases to go to QuickCare clinics. We have a new access centre that will have available hours for peopl e at the Grace area in order to take some of that flow out of the emergency– Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1941 The honourable minister's time has expired. Mrs. Driedger: While waiting, her son's blood pressure bottomed out and his blood sugar skyrocketed–it w as so high they couldn't even read it–all because he wasn't getting the care he needed. Luckily, his mother is a nurse, because she ended up having to care for her own son in the waiting room last evening. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Health to tell this mother how her announcements, her rhetoric, her broken promises are making a difference in helping health care get better in Manitoba. Ms.

Selby : Of course, that is not what we want to see in our emergency rooms. And I would ask this member, if we co uld talk after, that she could give me a little bit more information so that my office could contract this person directly to find out exactly what happened, because it doesn't sound like it went very well and that is not what we want to see in our emergency rooms.

Certainly, we know that there are not one single answer to make our emergency rooms more efficient, but we are doing a number of things, including making sure that there are more doctors in our emergency rooms, making sure that there are more nurses, but also making sure that there's more options for people, for people who maybe don't need to be in an emergency room who maybe could be better seen at a QuickCare clinic, at an access centre, and making sure that everybody has a family doctor by 2015 so that they can better manage and prevent chronic diseases and take care of people so that when someone does have an urgent need where there's nowhere else to turn that the emergency room has the time– Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mrs. Driedger: By that minister's response, she really doesn't get it. And I'll tell her the mom–I asked the mom last night if she wanted me to take this to the Minister of Health and she said, what for, this Minister of Health doesn 't understand, she's clueless about health care. And that's what the mother said. So, Mr. Speaker, mom, who is a nurse –this mom, who is a nurse, said that her son's first six hours of waiting was totally mismanaged at every level.

She said that the care, or lack of care, was worse than what her family experienced a few years ago when they went to a hospital in Mexico. So I'd like to ask this Minister of Health to tell this mom and her son: Why are ERs failing patients continuously even after 15– Mr. Spea ker: Order, please. The honourable member's time has expired. Ms. Selby : We know that families expect timely care. We know that they expect the right care at the right place when they need it, and we think they should get it. It's why we are hiring more doctors.

It's why we've hired more nurses to make sure that the people are there at the front line. I do have to say, though, Mr. Speaker, the people in our hospitals, our front -line workers, work very hard. Our nurses and doctors are very good at what they do, and if something doesn't go right, we want to know about it. We want to know how we can improve it. We know that there's a few things that we are doing in order to make it better flow in the ER. We know that we want to make sure that people have access to health care where they need it.

We're building QuickCare clinics so that people have other options if they have a less serious situation so that they don't have to go to the ER. We're building an access centre at the Grace Hospital so that peopl e with little minor incidents, with ailments that don't require emergency– * (14:00) Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Lake Manitoba Financial Assistance Program Review Request Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr.

Speaker, the Auditor General's report indicated many shortfalls and discrepancies in the delivery and implementation of the Lake Manitoba Financial Assistance Program. Will the Minister of Agriculture commit now to a review of those programs? Hon. Ron Ko styshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development ): Obviously, a question was raised during Estimates, and I'm glad to repeat the answer I gave the members opposite.

Obviously, the Auditor General's report says that compliments to the government of the day to deal with something that's totally unusual, a seven- year hard flood that nobody was ever prepared for. And

1942 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 we continue to work on those programs. And, in fact, to the attest to our government, to the team that was involved, we were actually asked to come out to Calgary and help them in their situations to assist them and the programs we brought forward. It's the members opposite that seem to have a problem understanding of the importance our staff and our team put together to deal with the issues that he's bringing forward. And we continue to work with landowners as we move forward to put the issue aside. Thank you so much. Mr. Briese: Mr.

Speaker, the hard-working people at MASC did their best to apply the programs, but the rules kept changing to a point of overwhelming the whole system. Flood victims were not treated equally because of changing rules. Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Agriculture now do a review and correct those oversights and discrepancies? Mr. Kostyshyn: As we all kno w, the flood of 2011 was a 1.3 -, 1.2- billion-dollar flood, and we've been working with landowners, as we had discussed in Estimates and the member opposite was obviously sitting across from us as we provided the information.

But also to our positive thin king, we also brought in a person that will give the appeals scenario that when people have issues to deal with – and we will work with them, and we have worked with them, and we will continue to work with people that were affected by the flood. And we've do ne the proactive thing that we want to have the appeal process and we did have the appeal process. And we had a very capable individual to deal with the issues, and I'd like to compliment Mr. Ron Bell for an excellent job he's done.

And if members opposite don't feel that he done an adequate job, I would please request them that they put it forward to him in person. Thank you so much. Mr. Briese: I would like to compliment Ron Bell too. He was –he did a good job given the parameters this government foisted on him. Mr. Speaker, the NDP put in place stand- alone programs and then blamed the federal government for the shortfalls instead of focusing on keeping their own promises.

The Auditor General stated that the treatment of claims were–was inconsistent, there was a lack of clearly documented policies and that the mandate for the appeal 'barty' was unclear. Those are serious allegations. Will the Minister of Agriculture do the right thing, treat the Lake Manitoba flood victims fairly and do a review of t he inconsistencies of the program's implementation and delivery? Mr. Kostyshyn: In a quote that the Auditor General made mention, Mr. Speaker, was it is truly an unprecedented type of a flooding event was developed and a number of flooding assistance programs to help out the people.

The immediate response was to help out with the stress level, provide financial support, and the Auditor General recognized the importance of that program as we talk about today. And let this be –never, ever again be a flood. But I want to assure the member opposite, why did they vote against the proposed bill and the budget we're bringing so we will never, ever have an event, so we have proactive infrastructure in place that we have in Lake Manitoba to have a control structure so we could operate the situation so we don't have a reoccurrence? And also, Mr.

Speaker, the fact is that they have to understand the true watershed of water movement. It's not only within the boundaries of the province of Manitoba; we have to consider other areas. So I hope they would open up their eyes and understand the importance of flood events that we've experienced in 2011. Local Food Industry Regulation of Sales Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, an increasing number of consumers want to purchase food products directly from farmers who are producing for this niche market.

These are relationships built on respect and trust, something this NDP government does not know anything about. This should be a win- win situation, except this NDP government continues to interfere with more and more rules and regulations. Why does this government insist on closing down a marketing opportunity for locally grown food products? Hon. Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): Obviously, the member opposite is referring to –should we risk the family that buys a product and take it home and have one of the family members get sick from it?

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1943 Our priority, Mr. Speaker, as have food safety in place, and we are working with the organizations that will provide that. We recently had a meeting just yesterday with a number of the people and we're talking about moving forward, of exploring options. We're communicating with the necessary people, and at the end of the day, this Agriculture Mi nister, this government, is not about to turn away opportunities for rural development in the province of –regardless what the members say. Mr. Pedersen: Mr.

Speaker, farm families wanting to supply food products directly to consumers now face even more regulations. Farm -gate sales to consumers are now banned from Internet websites. Farmers selling to consumers are now prohibited from working together to deliver their products to the consumer's door. Why is this NDP government so intent on regulating local food sales out of business? Mr. Kostyshyn : Let me reinforce the earlier comments I made. Let's be realistic on the food safety of the situation. And then when the consumer goes to buy a product, they have to be assured that the product is safe and it is.

Now, we talk about the opportunity of marketing; it's very creative, and we understand that. That is why I've put together my staff along with other people that have been discussing with us. We will continue to operate and discover opportunities of developing a compromise of the food safety being the top priority, Mr. Speaker. And I don't really care what the member opposite feels that we're trying to do. I know subconsciously that I am the rural minister. This government believes in added value, and we are going to work towards that production, and we will have food values in the province of Manitoba. Mr.

Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, perhaps the real reason the NDP wants to stop –put a stop to consumers buying direct from the farm gate is because they can't tax it. So if they can't tax it, they will regulate it out of business. Mr. Speaker, one day the minister eats prosciutto; the next day he bans it. But consumers and farmers develop relations built on trust and quality. Why is this NDP government so intent on regulating the local food industry out of business? Mr.

Kostyshyn : And I hope the member opposite appreciates people that have facilities on Highway 68, that they're going to have a great highway to travel down. Farmers–in all due respect to the members opposite bringing forward the commentary, let me be–let me just repeat the situation I said. We are being proactive. We've gotten together with chefs. We've gotten together with the Manitoba Food Processors. We're talking about buying local; we promoted that three years ago. We continue to do the promotion of buy local. I want to ensure the members opposite we are moving forward.

We're moving forward in a positive attitude towards buying local, and we will be continuing to communicate with the necessary people to make that a reality for the betterment of the farmers. Former MPI President Consultant Contract Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, last week many workers at Manitoba Public Insurance were expressing concerns and questions about the rehiring of Marilyn McLaren just a few days after she retired. In fact, in response to those questions, MPI sent out an internal memo to staff saying not to worry, the former CEO would be limited to a small number of hours per month.

That same d ay the NDP minister responsible said that for those small numbers per month, the now unretired CEO would receive $50,000 and they would have to override the conflict -of-interest laws to do it. Is overriding the conflict -of-interest laws and paying somebody $50,000 after retiring for 30 days part of this government's lean government strategy? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Again, I'm pleased to speak about Marilyn McLaren and her legacy of three decades of service to MPI where she spent the last nine years as the chief executive officer at MPI, at which time Manitobans enjoyed unprecedented –not just freezes but reductions in the cost of auto insurance. * (14:10) I know the member for Steinbach won't listen to what I say. He won't listen to what Deloitte says when they talk about the lowest cost of public

1944 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 utilities in the country. Maybe he'll listen to Saskatchewan. When SGI was before their equivalent to the Public Utilities Board asking for a 5.2 per cent increase in premiums in Saskatchewan, they actually filed a chart which actually shows the average rates across Manitoba. It's a picture, so I'm sure the opposition will actually understand it, and it will show you that Mani toba has, bar none, the lowest insurance rates in the entire country. I'll table this now. Mr. Goertzen: Mr.

Speaker, the internal memo said that the now-unretired CEO would only be working a few hours per month. The minister said that she'd be getting $50,000 for those few hours per month. And then just a day later the minister went out to the public and told them to prepare for a significant rate increase because of our, well, cold winter. Apparently the cold winter didn't stop this minister from writing a cheque for $50,000 for a few hours of work per month for the now-unretired CEO.

Won't he admit it's not the cold winter that's causing the rate increase, it's the cold heart of this government that doesn't know how to control costs? Mr. Swan : Well, I'm very glad the member for Steinbach wants to talk about controlling costs, because I'll refer him to the very nice chart that he now has and he can share with all his colleagues. Maybe now, instead of talking about privatizing auto insurance, he 'll recognize the benefit. Maybe even their leader will understand. I know he's not listening today.

There's been a lot of days the Leader of the Opposition does not listen to what goes on in this House. But if he was to listen, he would know that next door in Ontario the average cost of auto insurance, $3,782; average cost in Alberta –that shining beacon to the west for Progressive Conservatives–average automobile insurance premium for comparison, their average is $2,127. Families in Alberta even without children pay more than $1,000 per year. Families like mine with a daughter who's just begun driver's ed pay $2,000 more in the province of Alberta. We think having cheap auto insurance here, providing– Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mr. Goertzen: Well, and it's unfortunate that the Minister of Finance (Ms. Howard) isn't listening to this debate, Mr. Speaker, because, ultimately, it's about ensuring that individuals continue to be able to afford Autopac. Now, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) went out into the hallway and told individuals to prepare, told Manitobans prepare for higher Autopac rates, and he said that they should prepare because of the long, cold winter. Well, that long, cold winter didn't stop them from handing out a $50,000 che que for a few hours of work.

In fact, the PUB said that this government had to get the costs under control for Manitoba Public Insurance. So why won't the minister acknowledge it's not the long, cold winter, it's frozen ideology of the NDP who can't cont rol costs and they keep going back to Manitobans and asking for more? Mr. Swan : Well, to tell you a Frozen ideology, in the words of Disney, let it go. I know the Leader of the Opposition could not wait to get his hands on–he would love to privatize MPI.

Each member over there, despite the indisputable evidence that public auto insurance provides great service and low premiums for Manitobans, we know they would follow on the heels of the Filmon government when they privatized MTS. They would sell off MPI . It would result in people in Manitoba getting less service, paying more for it. And I would point out that right next door in Saskatchewan, SPI has asked for a 5.2 per cent rate increase in that province. I know the members opposite and the member for Steinbach don't appreciate it has been a cold, difficult winter.

Every Manitoban who's actually spent this winter understands how difficult it is. Those who maybe go away for two or three months maybe wouldn't be so aware of that. Drug Treatment Court Future of Funding Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, there's been no end of complaints and concerns about the revolving door of the Manitoba justice system with criminals reoffending as soon as they're released. Drug treatment courts are an ef fective solution and have been found to dramatically reduce the revolving door, what's called recidivism. I table

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1945 an evaluation report that has verified their cost-effectiveness. Yet, guess what? Funding for drug treatment court ends next March, and because effective treatment takes a year or more, very soon there will be no new intakes. I ask the Premier: Why is his government killing the goose that lays the golden egg? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, it was this government that put in pla ce the drug treatment court in Manitoba, and we think it has been very effective. We're the government that put it in place.

We put the resources in place, and we're going to keep the drug treatment court going in Manitoba It's very unfortunate the feder al government is considering withdrawing resources. We want to give them every opportunity to continue to provide those resources because it's an effective program that keeps people from reoccurring in terms of criminal offences and keeps the community 'safeter' and helps those people recover and make a useful contribution to the community. Mr. Gerrard: My understanding, Mr.

Speaker, from the public prosecutors of Canada that, in fact, the federal government is ready to commit, but they want to pay the gov ernment directly instead of what their–provincial government wants is the money to go through the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba. When will the government end this kind of Mickey Mouse and decide for sure that they are going to continue the drug treatment courts and make sure that people in Manitoba are well served? Mr. Selinger: If the federal government wants to continue to fund the drug treatment court, we'll find a way to help them do that, Mr. Speaker, no doubt about it.

Look, Mr. Speaker, we've seen the federal government cut the band constable program. They've reduced resources for legal aid. They're threatening to cut resources for the drug treatment court. This government has invested in community safety. Just this week, the Minister of Just ice (Mr. Swan)–our Minister of Justice–committed to another 10 RCMP constables in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, something the members opposite voted against, including the member from River Heights. We like the drug treatment court. We like the mental health court. We like the family court.

Those are all courts we put in place while we've been in office. Those are all courts that the members opposite have voted against every single time. Brandon and Thompson Mr. Gerrard: While the Premier is going back and forth on whether he's going to continue drug treatment courts, the Minister of Justice has said that the Winnipeg treatment court is so good that there should be similar drug treatment courts in Thompson and Brandon.

And the question really is: Why is the Pre mier– of course, with his government, constitutionally responsible for drug treatment courts –why is he neglecting Brandon and Thompson by failing to set up drug treatment courts there? Mr. Selinger: We've just provided resources as requested by the City of Thompson to have people, parapolice officers, working in the community that will provide services to the community, similar program to–that we've done in Winnipeg.

The member opposite may know about the Block by Block program, which we've launched in the North End of Winnipeg, which is intensively focused on reducing crime in one of the areas where there is a serious incidence of crime. We're investing in early childhood development to prevent people from having to need a drug treatment court. The more we can do to help people get off to a healthy start in their lives, the less they will be subject to being victims of addictions in this province, Mr. Speaker. We're investing in that. We're investing in families. We're investing in schools.

And what do the members opposite do? They vote against it. They wish to cut it. And then they get up, after they've voted against resources that would keep families and individuals healthy, and they ask for more drug treatment courts. We want more healthy citizens so t hey don't need drug treatment courts. We want more people working so they don't need social assistance. We want more people getting an education so they can make a decent living for their families, and then they won't need drug treatment court. New Gymnasium Funding Kelvin and Laura Secord Schools Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Today I was very pleased, Mr. Speaker, to host my hard -working colleague our Education Minister in the marvellous constituency of Wolseley at École Laura Secord

1946 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 School. It's a 100 -year-old school. Wouldn't you know it? The gym was built, well, about 100 years ago. There are now 550 students at that school, and I would note, in the theme of today's question period, that our same Education Minister and our Premier (Mr. Selinger) were just across the river in someone else's constituency, represented by a different party, making a very similar announcement for them, fitting very much with our government's theme of working on behalf of all Manitobans.

Could the Education Minister please give us the details on these fine announcements? Hon. James Allum (Minister of Education and Advanced Learning): I was delighted to join with the member from Wolseley today, along with the principal representatives from the school division, representatives from the parent council and students themselves, to announce the design will begin on a new gym at École Laura Secord. * (14:20) And then yesterday I stood with the Premier as we announced a new gym for the fine students at Kelvin High School.

Our gove rnment has committed $50 million in our Active Schools Fund, and so far we've built and renovated 14 gyms all across Manitoba. On this side of the House, we build gyms and we support healthy and active lifestyles for our students. On that side of the Hous e, they're going to cut a half a billion dollars from the budget, they're going to close schools, and they're not going to build any gyms. Manitoba Hydro Development Concerns Mr.

Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Yesterday this NDP government said that Manitoba could run out of energy in 10 years, yet in the La Capra report it very clearly states this is not the case at all. In fact, there is no rush to build dams. Mr. Speaker, we only have one chance to get this right. Will the minister, will this government, commit to listening to the experts and let NFAT do its work and not Americanize Manitoba Hydro? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): Well, Mr. Speaker, what's clear is that every time members opposite have had a chance to get it right, they've got it wrong.

And it's absolutely clear that within 10 to 12 years, there –we could run out of power in this province. We–that may happen, and we don't intend to be unprepared. We want to be clear with Manitobans that we are going to build hydro, that we're going to improve our capabilities to create power through these clean, green energy means. We're not going to take the advice of members opposite who think that building natural gas pl ants is the only option for producing energy in our province. We know these are facts.

We know we're prepared to make the decisions to move forward and provide that kind of clean, green energy and, in such a manner, keep rates the lowest on the continent. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, this NDP government has awarded billions of dollars of work on Keeyask, Bipole III, and NFAT has not even finished their work. The NDP is so intent to Americanize Hydro, like spending there's no tomorrow. Projects have not received their environmental or regulatory approval.

We on this side of the House want to listen to the facts, listen to the experts and do it right the first time. Why won't this government give the experts the freedom to do what they were hired to do, yes or no? Mr. Stru thers: Well, there they go again, Mr. Speaker. On the one hand, they tell us to listen to the Public Utilities Board, and in the next breath, they're dissing the Public Utilities Board. They can't have it both ways. What about the experts that the member opposite wants to talk about? Well, what did Meyers Norris Penny say to PUB? What did they say?

They said the Preferred Development Plan results in the highest cumulative net GHG emissions displacement of any alternative plan. Mr. Speaker, w hat else did –what did TyPlan's socio-economic review say? They said overall the Preferred Development Plan exhibits the greatest socio-economic benefits to the people of Manitoba, northern communities and First Nations compared to other plans.

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1947 Mr. Speaker, what do members opposite have about supporting clean, green energy for the benefit of all Manitobans? Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, this minister, this government, has made up it mind to build Keeyask, Conawapa, Bipole III regardless of what ratepayers, the rightful owne rs of Manitoba Hydro, have to say about it. The NFAT committee is supposed to be the protector of Manitoba taxpayers and NFAT has not said yes or no on these projects. Mr. Speaker, I ask this government once again: Will it let the NFAT committee do its job?

Will they wait for NFAT to come out with their recommendations, yes or no? It's their board. Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the NFAT is to look at all of the options, and Manitoba Hydro has put in front of the NFAT 15 different options, 15 options versus one option from members opposite. Members opposite tell us to go all natural gas, leading to privatization, I will add. They tell us, across the way, we should go to all natural gas. That's their only option. Well, what does the M orrison Park Advisors' commercial evaluation say? And this was before PUB. What did these experts say?

They said, clearly, if Manitoba builds natural -gas-fired facilities or meets its needs in some other way, then it may no longer be able to claim that it meets the high standard of carbon- free production. If Manitoba Hydro builds additional hydroelectric generation facilities, it would find willing buyers for firm energy contracts for the sale of a substantial portion of– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Moose Population Monitoring Vacant Ecologist Position Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, yesterday in Estimates the minister advised that the almost 15 per cent vacancy rate his department is carrying involved predominately back- office staff with no front-line programs being impacted. I previously asked this minister about the health of moose populations in 19A, which has been surveyed by Manitoba Hydro earlier this year. At the time, the minister gave a typical non-answer. Can the minister advise if his inability to release moose population numbers is a result of his department's lacking a population ecologist the last two years? Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship): Yes, Mr. Speaker, when it comes to moose population management, I think it's important to recognize the tremendous efforts of Manitoba Conservation, its staff, hard -working staff, in co -operation with other Manitobans and Manitobans who are on the land and have first -hand knowledge of population trends. But there are population measures such as closures in the GHAs. There's li cence hunting suspensions, of course. There's the NROs who are on the land that, unfortunately, members opposite want to undermine the powers of.

We are doing surveys on a regular basis. We have a wolf management program. We have a brain-worm strategy. The bipole licence pays particular attention to moose and we're developing a province-wide moose strategy. I could– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It's time for oral –for members' statements. The honourable member for Emerson, I believe. Marcella Towle Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Okay, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I didn't have my ear on. Mr. Speaker, for her entire life Marcella Towle has played baseball.

Her family played baseball f or as long as she can remember, with herself as the catcher, her brother as the pitcher and the family pasture serving as the outfield. Her dad, known as Mr. Baseball, made sure that his children knew how to hit, catch pop flies and pitch. Growing up, sh e travelled with mixed teams to tournaments all over the area and on a family team. This was prior to slo-pitch becoming a popular sport. After that time, anyone –everyone could play, and the popularity grew, with two- day tournaments of 24 teams becoming the norm.

In the '90s, Marcella played with the ladies team called the Winnipeg Travellers, who advanced to three Canadian championships. Marcella and her

1948 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 husband also played for and managed a mixed senior team in Winakwa, later becoming Winnipeg South, and finally Charleswood while living in Winnipeg. When Marcella and her husband moved to rural Manitoba, she continued to play ball. This meant more driving to games and tournaments, but there was nothing that would keep her from the sport she loved. In 2000, Winnipeg hosted the World Seniors Slo-Pitch Tournament and teams from all over came to play ball.

Marcella quickly joined the team of Winnipeg for Manitoba where they competed against teams that were predominantly American. In 2001, Marcella was pic ked up by a BC team, the BC Swingers, for the World Seniors Slo- Pitch Tournament held in Las Vegas, held in the beginning of the month. After that tournament, Marcella has played with them 10 times, travelling to places like St. George, Utah, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Nashville, Atlanta, where in 2013 the team won first place for the ladies team, 70 years and older. Each member of the team was awarded a large baseball bag, something Marcella will truly treasure. Mr.

Speaker, I ask all the members of this House to join me in congratulating Marcella on her lifetime of playing baseball, and I wish her nothing but success in the games and tournaments to come. She's truly a testament to the love of the game. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. EDGE Skills Centre–Joan Embleton Ms. Nancy Allan (St. Vital): Mr. Speaker, joining us in the gallery today is Joan Embleton, whose passion for helping others inspired her spectacular 18-year career as the executive director of the EDGE Career program.

Joan recently retired, but the legacy she leaves behind is a testament to her vision and her leadership. For an adult trapped in the cycle of poverty, gaining access to quality, long-term employment can be an overwhelming challenge. However, Joan understands that with the right support and tr aining, we can give individuals the tools they need to take charge of their life. The EDGE Career program has long been serving the employment and educational needs of adults in our community. Its history extends back to 1988 when an initiative called Mager Women Working was started at Victor Mager School.

This program provided job trai ning to single mothers on social assistance to help them find a meaningful job and become financially independent. * (14:30) Under Joan's leadership, the organization evolved and began offering both men and women individualized training based on their work experience, interests and skills. Today the EDGE Career program is part of a broader initiative, EDGE Skills Centre. Each year the EDGE Skills Centre works with more than 50 clients, many of whom are low-income earners or newcomers to our province.

The centre provides clients with services such as personal development, literacy programs, English and computer classes and employability training. The centre then works to connect clients with a work experience placement and, ultimately, a sustainable job. Mr. Speaker, Joan has devoted her life to building this program, and its success is evidence of her dedication. Joan will be greatly missed, but her passion lives on in the great team of staff she built around her. Joan, thank you for 18 years of helping people tap into their own potential.

You have left a huge legacy of citizens who are contributing to our economy and the great province we live in. Thank you. Cameron Krisko Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I rise today to congratulate a most amazing young Charleswood man, Cameron Krisko. Cameron is the founder and president of Making Waves Winnipeg, a program which offers affordable swimming lessons to special needs children. Cameron's journey began when he was a grade 11 student at St. Paul's High School. As part of the community service component at the school, he decided to put in his 30 hours of volunteer time with Special Olympics.

He has never left. He stayed on and coached the track team and still volunteers with Special O. He also finds time t o volunteer at Count Me In Winnipeg, the Lighthouse Mission and the Children's Hospital and is an assistant coach of the St. Paul's High School hockey team. This experience awakened a desire for Cameron to do something more for children with special needs. In 2011, Cameron founded Making Waves Winnipeg, a program that provides affordable, one-on-one swimming lessons and water safety skills with volunteer instructors to special needs children.

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1949 He started with 10 swimmers and 10 volunteer instructors and the program has grown to 105 swimmers and over 50 instructors. Because of the needs of the children, this one -on-one instruction is crucial and Making Waves makes this affordable for the families. To cover the costs of the program, Cameron has organized t hree golf tournaments, the first annual gala dinner and also receives sponsorship from a number of local businesses. As the program is growing, Cameron hopes to introduce summer camps this year.

Cameron was recently rewarded for his volunteer efforts as h e was named one of Canada's Top 20 Under 20 by Youth in Motion, and he was also flown to Toronto for that awards ceremony. He was also recently named the winner of the Future Leaders of Manitoba awards in January for 20 - to 25-year-olds. Congratulations, Cameron, on your many accomplishments. Charleswood and Manitoba are so proud of you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Investing in Brandon Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, our NDP government has invested in Brandon's infrastructure at levels never before seen in Manitoba history.

Working together with the community, we built the Brandon Regional Health Centre and the western Manitoba cancer treatment centre. We have embarked upon unprecedented post-secondary construction supporting Assiniboine Community College, transforming one of western Canada's most outstanding collections of monu- mental architecture into a world -class college campus. The Manitoba Institute of Culinary Arts and the Len Evans Centre for Trades and Technology are among the fruits of that labour. At Brandon University, we recently opened the Healthy Living Centre and look forward to future growth. Mr.

Speaker, we worked to bring the Memorial Cup to Brandon, built the Keystone centre of agricultural excellence and proudly support the Provincial Exhibition in Manitoba in their historic reconstruction of Display Building No. 2. We have twinned 1st and 18th streets, twinned the Thompson Bridge and completed the eastern access route. Mr. Speaker, over the next five years, our NDP government is investing more than $80 million in Brandon's core infrastructure. This investment supports the unprecedented work our government has already done building roads, bridges and flood protection in Brandon.

Victoria Avenue, a central thoroughfare in Bra ndon, will be upgraded between 8th and 1st –18th Street and 1st Street. Major renovations on the 1st Street Bridge, improvements to the Trans-Canada Highway and several provincial highways are also planned. The Daly Overpass will undergo a major rehabilitat ion and will be expanded to include a fourth lane. Indeed, our provincial investment in roads, bridges and flood protection is by far the largest in Brandon's history. Working for Brandon is a privilege, Mr. Speaker; working together with others is an honour. Margaret Saundry Mr.

Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): A resident of my constituency was recently recognized for her hard work in respect to those she worked with in sports broadcasting. On June the 7th, 2013, Stonewall -born Margaret Saundry was inducted to CBC's hall of fame. Margaret began her career in banking before being brought on as an accountant with CBC. She 'shoon' threw–soon threw her hat into the ring for a script assistant, stepping into those shoes in 1961.

She mainly worked in sports and cover ed football games in what used to be the western interprovincial football conference, the forerunner of today's CFL's western division. In her working career she covered –her crew covered football games in three Prairie provinces. She never imagined playi ng baseball as a young girl for the Stonewall team would ever allow her to spend time in professional dugouts, rubbing elbows with such greats as Yogi Berra, Ted Williams, Johnny Bench.

CBC assignments allowed her to travel our great country from Victoria, BC, to Halifax, Nova Scotia, seeing many cities, towns and farmlands in between. She witnessed some remarkable history. She was fortunate to cover the Olympics, Pan Am Games, the Commonwealth Games. Each assignment has many memories for her. Margaret wa s present for the Pan Am Games, the 1976 Montreal Olympics and worked in the 1972 Olympics in Munich during the time of the terrorist attacks. Margaret retired in 1985, but her dedication and hard work were not forgotten. Mr. Speaker, I'd like

1950 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 to congratulate Margaret Saundry on her induction with only a dozen people before her to ever have the honour of such an award. Margaret Saundry is certainly a prime example of what it takes to be worthy of this award. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr. Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move on to orders of the day, government business. House Business Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Mr.

Speaker, on House business, in accordance with rule 28(3), and after consultation with the Opposition House Leader, I would like to announce that the Opposition Day motion brought forward by the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) will be considered on the afternoon of Thursday, April 17, 2014. Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that, in accordance with rule 28(3), and after consultation with the Opposition House Leader, that the Opposition Day motion brought forward by the honourable mem ber for Steinbach will be considered on the afternoon of Thursday, April 17th, 2014. * * * Hon.

Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, could you please call Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed to call the Committee of Supply–resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) HEALTH, HEALTHY LIVING AND SENIORS * (14:40) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Health, Healthy Living and Seniors. As previously agreed, questioning for the department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I just want to pick up from the questions that were asked in question period and ask the minister if all of the ER task force recommendations have been implemented. Hon.

Erin Selby (Minister of Health): I'm just wondering, while we're looking for the information that the member's just asked for, there was some question that she had yesterday and in a couple of areas that I have answers to. Perhaps she'd like me to read those into the record now while we get the information on the task force recommendations? Mrs. Driedger: That would be fine, Mr. Chair. Ms.

Selby : Yesterday the member was asking about staff reductions in relation to amalgamation, and I can let the member know that amalgamation of the previous 11 RHAs into five in 2012 has resulted in a reduction of over 100 executive and board positions, as we discussed yesterday. The member asked for an accounting of those positions, which I can provide today: 81 of those positions were a reduction from the 11 to five boards; 37 of those positions were RHA senior executive positions.

A total of 72 executive positions existed across the 11 former RHAS; 37 of those executive positions were eliminated through a merger process, more than 30 to 35 position ta rget–more than 30 to 35 was the position target the government set and more than half of the total senior executive positions that existed prior to those mergers. I can confirm that some information has been put on record in the past with respect to the details of the reduction in executive positions and where those individuals went.

As the member's aware, of course, human resources are dynamic and people move between positions regularly, so there may have been some changes in the positions of these individuals more recently. However, the net reduction in the number of executive positions as a result of amalgamation is still correct. Also, wanted to talk about the

summary of the 32nd executives that were reduced. So in Prairie Mountain Health, which, of c ourse, is Assiniboine, Brandon and Parkland formerly. The former RHA was Assiniboine, Parkland and Brandon, of course – had a total of 18 senior executive positions among them. The new RHA, Prairie Mountain Health, has

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1951 seven executives, of a net reduction of 11 senior executive positions. Of those 11, seven were severed and four remained in the RHA but not as part of executive management. As for Northern RHA, which was formerly NOR-MAN and Burntwood RHAs, it had a total of 15 senior executive positions befor e the merger. The new Northern RHA has now seven executive positions.

This is a net reduction of eight senior positions–executive positions, rather–and of the eight reduced senior executive positions, four were severed, three resigned or retired and the position was eliminated, and one position moved into another role in the region. Southern RHA, of course, was formerly Central and southeast RHA. They had a total of 15 senior executive positions before the merger. The new southern health RHA does have seve n executive positions, being a net reduction of eight senior executive positions.

Of the eight reduced, two went to executive positions in a different RHA and their positions in Southern RHA were eliminated, three were severed and three remained in the RHA but not as part of executive management. As for Interlake -Eastern, formerly Interlake and North Eastman RHA, had a total of 12 executive positions before the merger. They now have seven executive positions for a net reduction of five senior executive pos itions.

Of the five reduced senior executive positions, three were severed, one retired and the position was eliminated, and one moved to another health-care role outside of the RHA and their position was eliminated. * (14:50) And all Winnipeg, which was formerly Winnipeg and Churchill, had 12 senior executive positions before the merger. They now have seven executive positions and the region's senior team did not change. This is a net reduction of five senior executive positions.

However, because some of the positions were retained in the former Churchill RHA, the WRHA has deleted some other senior administration positions to offset the retained positions in Churchill, and these include eliminating the following positions: executive director of planning and corporate services, VP chief and administration–administrative officer, chief innovation officer and director of human resources at Churchill. Of the five senior executive positions in Churchill, one was severed, two resigned, two remained in the RHA but not as part of executive management.

I also had some answers for the member was asking about an order -in-council for Bev Ann Murray. I can advise that that was approved on November 8–28th rather–November 28th, 2012. Was also asking for qual ifications and backgrounds of the members on the health professional advisory council. I would like to table a document that does have each of their professional backgrounds summarized–[interjection]–table it.

And I can just summarize the document for the member: that Neil Duboff, who is the chair, is a commercial law lawyer with Duboff Edwards Haight and Schachter of Winnipeg; David Schellenberg is a professional social worker and community volunteer in Winnipeg; Bev Ann Murray is a consultant with broad experience gained in academia, direct service, middle and senior management in the fields of health care and social service; John Harvie is a partner with the law firm Myers Weinberg practising in the areas of administration law, child protection, crimina l litigation, civil litigation and Aboriginal law; and Lynne Fineman is a registered social worker holding a master's degree in social work with extensive experience in health and social services and patient advocacy.

And I would like to say that these are all outstanding Manitobans; I believe, will provide my office with the best recommendations and advice that is independent and of the highest quality. I can also now give some answers on the ER task force the member asked about. I'm sure the member knows the task force was launched to work with patients, front -line staff in hospitals to develop plans to improve emergency care in Winnipeg. Of the recommendations, all the recommendations have been acted on and all but one referral fully implemented.

One of the long -term recommendations regarding health information system project is still go–ongoing. Phased- in improvements to electronic health–hospital health information systems will allow better patient access to patient records to be shared within the hospital and long -term care facilities as well. But the fully implemented recommendations of the Emergency Care Task Force include redevelopment of ERs. I can tell the member that the emergency rooms at Health Sciences Centre, Seven Oaks, Concordia, Miser icordia Urgent Care,

1952 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 St. Boniface and Victoria have been redeveloped, and plans for the Grace Hospital ER renovation has begun. We–introducing reassessment nurses to ERs– we've done that to ensure that patients –waiting patients are regularly reassessed and to communicate with patients and families. And I should note that the WRHA was the first jurisdiction in Canada to implement this rule. All our ERs do have reassessment nurses in place in the WRHA today. We are following up with patients who leave without being seen through Telehealth.

We're increasing the geriatric program assessment teams that conduct home assessment of discharged patients to help decrease the need for ER visits; establishing protocol for nurse initiative procedures for the treatment of pain, nausea and allergic reactions that's reducing treatment time; installing computerized diagnostic imaging readers which will shorten turnaround time for X-rays and CT scans; enhancing diagnostic services at all acute sites; implementing mental health education for ER nurses; creating regional temporary mental health beds and establishing on- call psychiatric assistants; adding psychiatric emergency nurse resources; using IV clinics to relieve pressure in ERs by reducing the number of scheduled ER visits; using nurse practitioners for fast -tracking of minor treatment, managing intoxicated persons and assisting in primary care in personal -care homes with nurse practitioners.

Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Chair, while the minister was able to indicate that the re were initiatives ongoing and implemented, she would also know, or should know, that just because it says on the paper that those things happen doesn't mean it's always consistent, especially with, you know, reassessment nurses. That's not always happeni ng on a regular basis. Follow-up calls is not happening. We saw that with Bonnie Guagliardo who didn't get one, and, unfortunately, she did die. So there is still a lot of work obviously that needs to happen with ERs. I understand that things were chaotic last night in ERs.

Besides the incident at Grace Hospital, I heard that Health Sciences ER was chaotic too, 32 people in the waiting room waiting for care. So this government has a long way to go to improve what many have deemed an ER crisis. Fifteen years ago, a promise was made and not kept, and what we are seeing with ERs is something that is far worse than what it was 15 years ago and certainly, in many minds, called a crisis. Mr.

Ted Marcelino, Acting Speaker, in the Chair So I would suggest to the m inister that there needs to be a lot more done with our ERs, and not just assume that because the task force put together some recommendations that, in fact, things have moved along and progressed when, in fact, that is absolutely not the case, and that's why we're continuing to see chaos in a lot of the ERs and there's a lot more work yet to be done in those areas. So I would urge the minister, and over the next several months, there will be a lot more questions coming forward in terms of the ERs.

With th e minister's response on the Health Professions Advisory Council, she did give some brief information about each of the members that are that–on the advisory council for the health professions new act, and I would wonder how closely were all of these mem bers vetted. Like, would the member have known if one of these had been a card -carrying NDP member and attended an NDP convention and put forward a resolution? Would she have checked out conflicts of interest prior to putting somebody on this committee?

Li ke, how carefully were all of these members vetted to be sure that they didn't have connections to the government or conflicts of interest? * (15:00) Ms. Selby : Of course we vet people's professional backgrounds. We work with people who come from a variety of political stripes, but we do look to ensure that they have the professional experience and background to be able to work on the particular board that we're looking at. And I'd like to say of this particular board, as I said before, they are outstanding Manitobans.

I believe they will provide my office with recommendations and advice that is of independent and of the highest professional quality. Mrs. Driedger: The council held a public meeting on May 23rd, 2013, with respect to the application by paramedics for regulation. And at the beginning of this meeting Mr. Harvie, who was just appointed in November of 2012, declared a conflict and he did not participate in the meeting. I would note that he represents the MGEU in –that were in matters before the court and particularly in matters involving the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry.

So I'd like to ask the minister: Is she aware of the nature of Mr. Harvie's conflict and did Mr. Harvie withdraw from all meetings of the advisory council

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1953 when matters of the application by the paramedics was discussed? Ms. Selby: We're just looking for that information. We’ll get back the member. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister that, given the appoint ment of Mr. Harvie occurring after the application by the paramedics had been received by the Minister of Health and were referred to the council, should the minister and the government not have investigated this possible conflict of interest during the appointment process and perhaps looked for another candidate? Ms.

Selby : So I can confirm that John Harvie recuses himself from all meetings in regards to paramedics, but generally the members split up the work. Different members deal with different things and so it isn't a problem for him to be not at those particular paramedic meetings because the members share the workload as it is. Mrs. Driedger: But the minister would be naive to think that there weren't discussions that come back to play at the table.

They may do separate work, but then when decisions are being made at that council, they're not going to be–you know, they're going to be made around a table with all the members there. So how does, you know, if he has a conflict of interest, you know, t hat really wouldn't work particularly well and certainly there could be bias, then, at the table. Is that not the case? Ms. Selby : I have been informed that Mr. Harvie recluses himself both from the meetings regarding paramedics and the discussions around the table that may also be about paramedics. Mrs.

Driedger: On December 4th of last year, the minister wrote a letter to the chair of the Health Professions Advisory Council, and in that letter, the minister gave assurances to the council that no decision on the regulation of massage therapy had been made, and to disregard media statements made by the Massage Therapy Association in the October 23rd publication of the Winnipeg Free Press during Massage Therapy Awareness Week. The minister's letter provid es no specifics about the concerns of the council.

This publication was four full pages of information, so I wonder if the minister could explain what the concerns were by providing some context or reasons for the concerns. * (15:10) Ms. Selby : I just wa nted to just remind members here that, of course, the review process that we're working on towards the regulated health professionals act, important that it is independent, that it's a non -political process, that certainly has involved extensive consulta tions with health professionals, patients, other experts, really looking to make sure that we bring all those viewpoints into account.

And I just want to confirm that the former minister certainly provided process advice to the Massage Therapy Association, but to be clear, and I believe that's what the member's referring to, to be clear, it was not political advice but process advice. And I should also mention that I know that the Deputy Minister of Health has met with the organization in December, discus sed some of their outstanding concerns. But it is really important that this review process is done independently, and we're looking forward to recommendations from the committee. Mrs.

Driedger: The minister seems to have misunderstood the question becaus e the letter I'm referring was one written in –on December 4th of last year, and it was written by this particular minister, and, you know, it was to the chair of the health professional advisory council, and it was talking about concerns about the Massage Therapy Association's advertisement, and yet there is no specifics, you know, outlined in this particular letter, and just wondering if the minister can explain what the concerns were that arose out of this to provide some context for this letter of hers .

She was certainly responding to a letter outlining the health professional advisory council's concerns, and then the minister sent a letter back, but in none of this do we see what she's referencing as concerns that have been raised. Could she clarify wh at they're talking about in the December 4th letter that she signed? Ms. Selby: Yes, Mr. Chair, I would be happy to do that. On October 23rd, 2013, the Winnipeg 'fress' – Free Press included a four -page advertisement in respect to massage therapy week. It was paid for by the Massage Therapy Association of Manitoba.

It had in it an open letter to the minister, the former minister at the time, and it had a line saying that she has provided political guidance in the required process, and, so, in my discussions, both with the department and the former minister, we were aware that she provided process advice, but to be clear, had

1954 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 not provided political advice, and I wanted to make that clear. Mrs. Driedger: Did the council or the minister or any of her staff di scuss these concerns with the Massage Therapy Association of Manitoba? Ms. Selby : I can repeat again for the member that the Deputy Minister of Health met with this organization in December. The Legislative Unit at Manitoba Health has also been in discuss ions with this group on many occasions. We know that they do great work.

I think that probably most people in this room personally know the great work that massage therapists do, but all the more reason why it's important to make sure that we maintain the integrity of the independent process. Mrs. Driedger: Were those meetings that the minister is just talking about, did they happen prior to the letter that the minister sent out? Ms. Selby : I'll get back to the member with those dates. Mrs.

Driedger: Certainly, what I have seen in terms of all of this was that there had been no contact with the Manitoba massage therapists prior to her letter going out, that they were caught quite off guard by the minister's letter. In fact, there wasn't a meeting with the m by her department until December 17th, and that was after the December 4th meeting. And even at the December 7th meeting, I understand that nobody informed the Massage Therapy Association that the minister or the council had any concerns about the Octobe r 23rd publication. So something just doesn't seem fair here towards this profession.

And, particularly, I'm wondering, because if the council had any concerns and the minister is indicating that there might have been some worrying concerns, why was there no courtesy given and an explanation sought before the minister went and signed a letter and sent it off and then also told the health-care advisory council to share the letter with participants in the review? It seems like a very unfair and unprofessional approach to handling this issue. Does the minister want to respond to any of that right now or do some more homework on this? * (15:20) Ms.

Selby: I will say, once again, that I don't doubt that everyone in this room recognizes the important work that massage therapists do, but also that is important to maintain the integrity of the independent process of this particular process. And, I'm not sure if the member is suggesting that there should be interference, but, of course, we're not going to do t hat. We think it's important to note that review process is done independently, and we look forward to seeing those recommendations. So, if the member is suggesting that there should be some interference, well, I'm not going to do that.

I'm going to respec t the work of the group, and allow them to work independently, and look forward to their recommendation. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Chair, the minister has totally misunderstood or misconstrued all of this, and her comments right now are just absurd. The integrity of the process was not maintained by herself when she wrote that letter and told the council to distribute it. It was distributed with an email cover, and the subject line was: MTAM complaint. And so that's out there now, and the only person that hurt the integrity of the process was this Minister of Health.

And that's what I'm trying to get her to understand, is where she messed up and interfered and, somehow, in what she did, she's tainted MTAM. And I wonder if she –like, she really doesn't seem to get this. And wondered if she would be prepared to apologize to MTAM for not bringing them in on the discussion, letting them know what they were being censured for, and why she told the council, who's supposed to be independent, to send out her letter, and it talks about an MTAM complaint. Does she not understand that she's the one that interfered and messed up the integrity of this process by what she has done? Ms.

Selby : I think it's important to put the facts on the record, so I will read the letter that the member is referring to that, of course, went the chair of the Health Professions Advisory Council. It says: Thank you for your letter outlining HPAC's concern with the Massage Therapy Association of Manitoba's advertisement in the October 23rd, 2013, issue of the Winnipeg Free Press regarding MTAM's application for designation of massage therapy as a regulated health profession under The Regulated Health Professions Act. I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

One of the key features of The Regulated Health Professions Act is uniformity in the legislation, provisions applicable to all regulated health professions. Similarly, The Regulated Health Professions Act establishes a formal process to review all requests through regulation under it by currently unregulated professions including criteria

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1955 for the evaluation of such requests. I truly appreciate the effort that must be made by each HPAC member in evaluating applications and look forward to your advice. Please be assured that our governmen t has not made, and will not make, a decision with respect to any application referred to HPAC before receiving the requested advice. The independence of HPAC is imperative to its review, and advice to the minister must be maintained as a matter of respect to applicants and the work involved in making the application.

I ask HPAC to set aside the remarks made by MTAM in the media and continue the review of MTAM's application to its conclusion. In addition, HPAC may share this letter with participants in the review to assure them that HPAC's work is meaningful and unconstrained. And, again, I'm not sure if the member is suggesting that we should not allow the independence to go forward, that it's not important to maintain this independence and respect for the applications and the applicants that work in this, but we are not willing to do that.

I think this is really important work that they're doing and I look forward to seeing their recommendations. Mrs. Driedger: The minister really doesn't seem to be connecting the dots on all of this, and that is very concerning because she hasn't seemed to have understood the questions. She has not understood how she's the one that is responsible for a breach in the integrity of the process to some degree and, instead, is trying to play some little games with words that–but basically without understanding what she's even talking about.

You know, and that does raise some concern because, you know, basically, in all of this if there were any concerns raised about the advertisement in the paper, I don't know why somebody wouldn't have spoken then to the association and told them what your concerns were. That didn't happen. The minister didn't have the courtesy to even pick up a phone and share what the concerns about the advertising might have been, and then she responds to a letter where complaints are thrown out there and then tells the advisory council to share that letter.

And she doesn't seem –like, there's a big gap here in her misunderstanding of this whole proce ss.

And I'm really, you know, concerned by it because, you know, this is an issue with this act that is really critically important, and it sounds like the minister really doesn't have a handle on this at all and really doesn't seem to appreciate that they mistreated the Massage Therapy Association by ignoring them and not telling them what the council or the minister herself felt might have been a complaint. * (15:30) So I would ask the minister: Why was there no courtesy in picking up the phone and telli ng the association what her concerns were?

Or is she just going along with the advice of somebody and just doing some things that seem a little bit out of place? Ms. Selby: Certainly, we know the important work that MTAM does. We recognize it. It's exactly why it's so essential that we allow this process to proceed without interference. We are working and maintaining the integrity of the process, and that's what's at stake here. Mrs. Driedger: Does the minister not understand the role she played in breaking that integrity? Ms. Selby : As I've been saying, this is about maintaining the integrity of the process.

The member might not be aware that the chair of HPAC sent a letter to the minister's office. To summarize, it said that the public assertion by MTAM th at the former minister provided political guidance may undermine and prejudice the work of the council as it investigates MTAM's proposal, and I think it's very important to reinforce and to let HPAC know that we respect the independence of that process. Mrs. Driedger: I don't disagree at all with that, but what I don't understand is why would nobody from HPAC or the minister, she just went, then, willy-nilly and wrote the letter and told them to share it around.

Why didn't somebody then talk to MTAM, whic h would be the proper, respectful thing to do and share with them the concerns that were raised? Why didn't that happen? Ms. Selby : As I've said a couple of times earlier already, the Deputy Minister of Health did meet with this organization in December and that was an opportunity to discuss their outstanding concerns. And, again, I will say once again that the review process is done independently and we are looking forward to those recommendations coming from the independent advisory council. Mrs.

Driedger: I would point out at that December 17th meeting that MTAM was not informed by the deputy or anybody in that room about the concerns. So it was not brought up with the massage therapy group and was, sort of, had just been left out there uncorrected or not involving MTAM in actually sharing what the concerns were. Does the minister

1956 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 not think she has and should apologize to them for not consulting with them on this issue and sharing the concerns that been raised about their advertising? * (15:40) Ms. Selby: And I'm informed that many things were discussed in the December meeting. But I think it's important not to dismiss the concerns that the chair of HPAC had. The chair was concerned that public assertations made by the group could jeopardize and undermine and possibly prejudice the work being done by the council as it investigates the proposal.

I think it is very important that we let the council know that we respect their independence, that we respect the process and look forward to their recommendations. Mrs. Driedger: I will just indicate that if they were so concerned, they should've at least then had the courtesy to let MTAM know, I mean, and that just makes sense. And that's not interfering with anything, that's just being respectful and courteous. But I've got a lot more questions, and I will probably look at putting the rest of these in writing because the minister seems to be struggling with understanding what it is we're asking about.

So I want to go on to a few more topics, and a big one, and I'm wondering, why have the nurses in Manitoba been without a contract for a year? Ms. Selby: I can tell the member that the issues have been settled at the bargaining table. We are awaiting final ratification of the settlement, but we're hoping that's close. Mrs. Driedger: But the question to the minister was why have they been without a contract for a whole year. Ms. Selby : I can tell the member the discussions were ongoing during that time.

A nd we have found that those issues have been settled at the bargaining table, and we're hoping that this settlement is ratified very soon. Mrs. Driedger: In 1999, although I dread bringing it up with this minister, but at that point, Manitoba nurses were the third highest paid in Canada. And now, after 15 years of NDP, they are the lowest paid in Canada. Will the minister give us a sense of where this new contract might place them? Ms. Selby: We're just checking on what we're able to say without disrupting the negotiation process that is–as I've mentioned earlier, the final settlement hasn't been ratified yet.

Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister explain that if –in looking at the deal, there's a 2 per cent increase for 2014 and a 1.1 per cent market adjustment. What is a 1.1 per cent market adjustment? Ms. Selby: We'd be happy to discuss this at a later date, but we aren't going to discuss the details of the deal until it is ratified. * (15:50) Mrs. Driedger: Any idea why the MNU leadership would have taken off comparisons that they used to have on their website with salaries across Canada for nurses? Any idea why they would have removed that from their site? Ms.

Selby: I think that the member would probably have to ask the MNU why they would do anything in particular on their website. Mrs. Driedger: And I'm just curious, has there been a lot of intense lobbying with this government about nurses' wages, seeing as they were the third highest in Canada in 1999 and now they're the lowest paid in Canada? Have there been–has there been any intense lobbying by the MNU? Ms. Selby : I've had the opportunity to meet with a number of nurses both –everything from nurse practitioners to our ER nurses in Winnipeg.

I've also had a chance to meet with LPNs and registered nurses, and I can tell the member that in any of those discussions I don't remember anyone discussing wages in any of those meetings. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Madam Minister, with your predecessor I've had a number of discussions in the past regarding the emergency room at Bethesda hospital and the datedness of that emergency room and the challenge that it causes for staff and the ability to have the kind of procedures that one would expect at a regional centre like Bethesda.

Are there any plans currently being discussed or in place to update the surgical rooms at Bethesda hospital in Steinbach? Ms. Selby: I wonder if the member could just clarify if he was saying surgical units or emergency department. Mr. Goertzen: Surgical units, Madam Minister. Ms. Selby : It just feels like we're in Steinbach so often announcing things happening, from the wellness centre that was committed to in the budget,

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1957 the site of our first primary care networks in Steinbach, certainly a QuickCare clinic in Steinbach, and I know that ministers of education have been out there making announcements of school expansions as well. As th e member knows, currently we are renovating that ER. There have been some recent upgrades to the surgical units in Ste. Anne's, but we're not aware of a proposal coming in regarding surgical rooms at Steinbach. But, clearly, we invest in Steinbach.

We hav e invested, and we're happy to work with folks to hear what plans they have and where they're moving and always prepared to look at proposals that will keep health care closer to home. Mr. Goertzen: Yes, I suspect there's a little catch-up going in Steinba ch because it's been ignored for a number of years during the growth, and that was certainly the case with schools, what became a dangerous level where students were having to cross the street to use the gym facilities at private facilities.

That was befor e the government got going, and certainly I know with the emergency room, which I think will be a welcomed project –Mr. Doer committed that project to me in 2007, I believe, so I know things don't move quickly. This is a question I've asked a number of years, though, with previous– the previous minister. I think that there was some discussion about doing possibly the emergency rooms at the same time as the ER, and I think of the Bethesda health foundation, which the minister will know is always very eager to partner with the government on projects, had had some discussions on that.

So I would ask that –I'll leave it at her looking into the situation and perhaps we can have further discussions in a different forum about that. But it is a significant problem and challenges –the kind of surgeries and the nature of surgeries that would normally happen in a place like Bethesda aren't able to happen, and it impacts the entire region, so I'll leave it at that. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair I wanted to ask a couple of questions about a potential helipad in Steinbach.

Now, my under - standing is that STARS would have done missions in 2013, about 22 at Bethesda hospital, which is second only, I think, to Boundary Trails out in the Morden- Winkler area, and they have a lan ding pad right on site. I think part of the challenge, as has been discussed to me by health professionals in Steinbach, is right now the STARS helicopter–it's on a restricted use, but right now, when it's landing, it would land at the airport in Steinba ch. They would then take their stretcher and put it into the ambulance and it would take about eight minutes to drive to Bethesda.

The patient would be loaded onto that stretcher, put back into the ambulance, take another eight minutes to go back to the ai rport, be loaded back into the STARS ambulance and then take 14 minutes to fly to–will take 14 minutes to fly to the HSC pad, which isn't in operation yet. So now they're flying to their airport landing site and then retransferring a person to HSC or to whichever hospital they're going to, I suppose. But there has been discussion, I know, within the community.

And the Lions Club, for example, has talked about doing some fundraising potentially for a helipad, but they're not really sure to go with it because they don't know if it's a project that's proceeding or not, but they've offered to do some private fundraising for that.

I think they're quite involved with –the Lions is quite involved with STARS in Alberta, so they have some history with that. * (16:00) So there's a willingness to do fundraising for it, but they aren't certain where the government's direction is on the helipads generally for rural Manitoba, and I'm speaking specifically about Steinbach at this point. Ms. Selby : The member's probably aw are that construction to begin on the helipad at Health Sciences Centre. Unfortunately, there was a fire and it has delayed the process.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, my department staff are here with me, but I believe it's on track to be ready for ear ly 2015, the helipad at Health Sciences Centre. The member's probably aware that currently, STARS is only flying those scene calls, emergency situations where you couldn't get either a land ambulance or a jet to the area, to the accident or whatever need there may be. But they are up on the scene emergency call, but they're not doing the full service, the transport of patients, interfacility patients, right now.

That, right now, is one of the things being looked at by the Clinical Oversight Panel under the direction of Dr. Brian Postl. We have a number of people around the table at that panel from STARS,

1958 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 from EMS, from the department, experts with the background in critical care and emergency care. And this is a number of things that they're going to be looking at. They are looking to guide us up into that full recovery of service to –that we're back into full resumption of service, rather, that we're looking at those interfacility transfers. Patient safety is their focus, but we are also all looking at iss ues of everything from training to dispatch, and we'd like to see more use for STARS, and that's part of the thing that they're looking at as well.

So I can tell the member that the panel has been meeting, discussions are ongoing, and we'll be looking forward to their recommendations on what we can do to get back to full service but also to bring in improvements and patient safety, of course, being the utmost focus of the work that they're doing. Mr. Goertzen: Would the minister agree, though, that–and her goal is to see STARS utilized more often, and that's fine. Would she agree that a helipad at Bethesda would increase that usage because it shortens the time with those transfers with the ambulance? Ms.

Selby : I absolutely think that –well know that helicopter ambulance is an important part of our EMS service; it's the future of Manitoba, absolutely. Our focus right now is the helipad at Health Sciences. That's our first priority. It did have a little bit of setbacks, but I'm certainly eager to hear the advice of the Clinical Oversight Panel with Dr. Postl on how we can use STARS more, how we can ensure that we're doing the best we can in terms of dispatch, in terms of patient safety and get back to that full service of interfacility transfers as well.

So this is something that they will be looking at, and we'll be eager to hear what they have to say. Mr. Goertzen: Is it fair to say that the helipad at Bethesda is certainly a goal for the air ambulance service in Manitoba? Ms. Selby: I can tell the member that we know that helicopter air ambulance service is an important part of our system. As I said, we're focused right now on getting the one at Health Sciences up and going.

I'd be happy if this group would like to meet with either the department or s omeone to discuss where we're going, but we are, at this point, following the direction of the Clinical Oversight Panel. Dr. Brian Postl has been tasked with looking at a number of things, including making sure that we're getting the most out of STARS, tha t we're using it to its fullest scope. And they will be looking at dispatch and patient care as well. So, certainly, I know the department would be happy to meet with folks, but we are definitely following the lead of the experts around the Clinical Oversight Panel. Mr.

Goertzen: Can the minister, then, provide me – should I just have the group contact her office directly for a meeting with her staff on this issue? Ms. Selby: Absolutely. Mr. Goertzen: You know, the issue on–that we're facing right now at Bethesda with the restriction on STARS and the inability to do the interfacility transports, I've talked to the doctors at the emergency room at Bethesda, and it's become quite critical. In fact, I thin k, in some ways, it had almost disputes with the dispatch for STARS.

When they've called for the ambulance to do an interfacility transfer, they're told they're under restricted flight usage and they can't do the interfacility transfer. Lifeflight, I don't think, has ever landed in Steinbach, if I'm correct. And so what's happening right now is we often have one doctor in the ER. They ask for an interfacility transfer.

They're rejected, and so the doctor then goes with the ambulance into whatever hospital they need to go into in Winnipeg, and the region is left without an ER doctor for up to, in some cases, five to six hours because there isn't that interflight–or that interfacility transfer. And I don't expect the minister will think that that's a good scenario and, in fact, it can be a critical scenario particularly at a busy hospital like Bethesda.

But is she aware that that is currently what's happening, where you have ER doctors who aren't able to ask for or request the interfacility transfers and so they have to leave the ER, a packed ER, and be gone for about five hours without anybody else covering it off? Ms. Selby: I appreciate the member's concern for his community and I'd be happy to bring those concerns to Dr. Postl and the Clinical Oversight Panel if they're not aware of it, I suspect they've probably have had a number of discussions but would be happy to make them aware of it. We're eager to get STARS back into full service.

It's why we're –it's why we've brought this group together to be able to guide us back into full service. It's certainly important to recognize that MTCC folks at the front line, those guys –those folks there make the decisions as to what is the best and safest thing to

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1959 do. But we're working towards getting STARS back into full service and I'd be happy to bring those concerns to the Clinical Oversight Panel. Mr. Goertzen: Well, I wanted to bring those concerns to the minister so she's on notice that it, you know, it could lead to a critical situation, obviously, if a doctor has to leave the facility and there are better alternatives. And the better alternative in this case, or in some cases, would be the use of the helicopter to do the interfacility transfer.

When is the Clinical Oversight Panel expected to meet to determine this issue? Ms. Selby : They've met. There are ongoing discussions. Mr. Goertzen: Are they meeting next week to discuss this issue? Ms. Selby: I've been informed that the next Clinical Oversight Panel meeting, the discussion will be on dispatch, I don't have the exact date but it is –it looks like it's in April, but they're just confirming that. But, if the member is suggesting that we put STARS back up in the air for interfacility transfers now, against all medical advice to do so, I have to tell the member I won't do that. Mr.

Goertzen: I'm advising the minister of risks that are currently in the system because of the restrictions. And I suppose the minister's responsibility is to balance those risks, but there are risks on each side and it's not a simple of equation or a zero-sum game where all of the risks exist on only one side.

There are always risks within the medical system. * (16:10) I'm advising her that we've had situations at Bethesda, which is one of largest regional –certainly one of the largest rural regional hospitals in Manitoba, where the facility is vacated of an ER doctor because they are doing interfacility transfers that they, the doctors, would prefer to be doing with the helicopter. So I'm just advising her that there are challenges and problems that could be critical, and she can decide what she wants to do with that.

But it's my responsibility to put those on the recor d so that she's aware that there are–can be dangerous situations happening. I will leave it at that, other than I will hold the minister to her word. And I appreciate her suggestion that she–that her department staff will meet with the service club that is interested in doing fundraising for the helipad at Bethesda. I'll advise them of that and ask them, if they choose, to contact the minister's office and arrange that meeting. I appreciate that, and I am sure that she'll –I'm sure that that is followed up on. Mrs.

Driedger: Just to stay on the topic of helipads for a minute, can the minister indicate or confirm that she said the other day that the helipad at the Health Sciences Centre was not a tendered project? Ms. Selby : I'm not sure which conversation the member is referring to. Perhaps she could remind me of that. But I can tell her that the helipad was tendered. Mrs. Driedger: It was a comment she made the other day, and I believe it might've been in Estimates, about the helipad not being a tendere d contract. But, you know, and that's fine. If she's saying it's tendered, that's fine.

The other question would be, then, is St. Boniface getting a helipad. Is there anything in the works for that facility? Ms. Selby : So, as I mentioned earlier with the previous member, we certainly are focused on getting the Health Sciences Centre helipad up and operational right now, but I would be interested in the advice of the Clinical Oversight Panel as to where they see that we should concentrate those efforts. Certainly as they're taking a look at, well, patient safety being number one, but also dispatch issues as well, I'd be interested to know their advice on where efforts should be concentrated next.

Mrs. Driedger: Has the minister identified who leaked the Wheeler report to the CBC? Ms. Selby: We do not know, but we–I should tell the member that a full forensic search was done on government computers and that once the public personal–or the personal health information was removed, we made that report public as well. And I would note that both STARS and Manitoba Health committed to working on all the recommendations within that report. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate why her office has refused to give me a copy of STARS' response to the Wheeler report? * (16:20)

1960 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2014 Ms. Selby : The report, of course, or the –what the member's referring to was given in confidence, and we respect that. But I should tell the member that STARS' response was very clear. They sat with me–the CEO –at a press conference, where they stated that as an organization that believes in continuous improvement, we're committed to making any changes needed to ensure we provide the highest quality patient care. That was said by Andrea Robertson, the CEO of STARS.

She went on to say that this is a new day for STARS in Manitoba, and we look forward to getting back in the air and working with our partners to save lives. I can tell you that STARS has agreed to work on all the recommendations, that they're at the table with the Clinical Oversight Panel and Dr. Postl as we work towards allowing full return of service. STARS has put patient safety as their number one priority, as it is for Manitoba Health. And the Clinical Oversight Panel works together to enable us to go back to full service for STARS. Mrs. Driedger: Well, the minister made public the Wheeler report.

Is it not fair to STARS to also give them their day in court? Their reputation has been hurt by this, and yet they have no recourse. You know, if the government hadn't have bungled this whole issue and mismanaged it, STARS wouldn't be in the position they're in. I'd–I note that they have acknowledged where their weaknesses are and have agreed to fix them, but do they not have a right to have their day in court and have the right to have their voice heard by the government making public their response to the Wheeler report? Ms.

Selby : I can tell the member that the CEO of STARS sat next me at a press conference on March 7th. She said at that time that they are willing to address all the recommendations. STARS has representation at the Clinical Oversight Panel. I have found that they have been very eager to address concerns and to make sure that they are addressing patient safety issues to the satisfaction of both Manitoba Health and STARS so that we can get back to full service for Manitoba families. Certainly STARS has been a good partner to work with. They're at the table under the leadership of Dr.

Brian Postl, and I'm quite confident that they, as much as Manitoba Health and the ex perts around the table, want to see STARS return to full service in Manitoba. Mrs. Driedger: Does the minister not think it's important for the reputation of STARS and the damage that's been done to their reputation to have them have their day in court by having that response made public because, obviously, there's always two sides to everything, and I'm sure they would have provided a fair bit of information that could be very useful to this whole debate.

So does the minister not see a sense of fairness and giving STARS their, you know, day in court, so to speak, by hearing their side of the story? Ms. Selby : I think that STARS made a very public response when they sat next to me at the press conference and I talked about how important patient safety i s to their organization, committed very publicly to work on the agreement, the recommendations of the Wheeler report, and have been very good partners around the table of the Clinical Oversight Panel under the leadership of Dr. Brian Postl.

I think that A ndrea Robertson, the CEO, made a very public response when she said that they're an organization that believe in continuous improvement and they're committed to making any changes needed to ensure we provide the highest quality patient care. I believe them when they say that. I know that they've provided excellent work in Manitoba. They've helped a number of families here and have a great reputation outside of this province as well. And I certainly think they have been good partners and have shown a great willingness to address all the concerns raised in the Wheeler report.

I think that they have been very public in their response, and I appreciate their attitude that they have shown at working together to get full service back right across the province. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate if all tenders have been awarded for the Selkirk hospital? * (16:30) Ms. Selby: We're just checking on that status. Yes, we've awarded the tender. Mrs. Driedger: And has there been a tender awarded for a temporary MRI as well? Ms. Selby: We're just checking on that. We'll have to get back to the member on that. Mrs.

Driedger: I understand that phase 2 tender award had been cancelled which, I understand, was

April 15, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1961 quite unprecedented. Can the minister tell us why a tender award was cancelled in June of 2013? Ms. Selby: The new Selkirk Regional Health Centre, the member probably knows, is among the biggest health capital projects currently under way in the province. It's going to double the size of the current facility, including a 27 per cent increase in beds and a design that delivers 80 per cent private rooms. Compared to the current facility, it's only 20 per cent private rooms in the current facility.

There was a need for the Interlake -Eastern RHA to cancel the tender for the next phase of construction to ensure there'd be no question that the bidding process is fair and transparent, not unprecedented to reissue tenders on complicated projects such as this. I know that the community wants to see this building get built as soon as possible, and we're working with the region and the community to see that that happens. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister indicate when construction will begin and what the completion date is? Ms. Selby: I'll have to get back to the member with more information. * (16:40) Mrs.

Driedger: From an engineering perspective, are the piles still safe and safely can be built upon? Are they structurally still fine, seeing as they've been in the gr ound now, sticking out for –back since November of 2012? Do the piles have to be replaced or are they safe enough that building can still occur on top of them? Ms. Selby : I have some answers for the member. Since the contract has been awarded, we're expecting construction to begin very soon and we are expecting the completion date to be 2017.

And I should just advise the member that regarding the piles, that would have been considered in the construction tendering process, but, of course, we keep safety at the forefront of any design plan or anything construction moving forward. Mrs. Driedger: How expensive is it going to be to have an engineer come now and evaluate the stability and safety of the piles? Ms. Selby : Again, that all would have been considered in the construction tender, but, of course, safety is our top priority. Mrs.

Driedger: Can the minister indicate will there be an engineering review of the piles as they've now been in there for quite some time with no building on top of them? And, structurally, you would want to be sure they're safe and still reliable. Will there be an engineering review done or –I'm not sure if I've got the language right, but will an engineer come and look at them and determine that they're still structural–structurally sound? And how much would something like that cost? Ms. Selby: I will have to get back to the member. Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I was wondering if the minister could give me an update on the construction of a new hospital in Notre Dame de Lourdes. Ms. Selby: I'll have to get back to the member with that information. Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell us, does government use any private labs? Ms. Selby: Yes. Mrs. Driedger: Does a patient have to pay a fee then to have their specimens tested at those labs? Ms. Selby: I can tell the member that we cover all testing medically necessary by a doctor. Mrs. Driedger: Does the government have contracts with any private clinics? Ms. Selby: Yes. Mrs.

Driedger: Does a patient have to pay for care there at the private clinic? * (16:50) Ms. Selby: Well, the member that the WRHA does do contracts for, echocardiograms and also some surgical procedures at no cost to the patients, but those clinics may also do private work such as plastic surgery. Mrs. Driedger: How extensive is the use of private labs by the government? Ms. Selby : We can get that information for the member. Mrs. Driedger: And how many private clinics does the government have contracts with? Ms. Selby : We have co

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-43b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 43b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8b843a5f72d3972529bc737d6e94d4a5baa5f405

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