Volume XLI Friday Province of Newfoundland .PROPERTY OF N-~~~~ -~ LEGISLATIVE l.Jr.;r.~t\RY PLEASE RETURN FORTY- FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF · NEWFOUNDLAND First Session Number 50 . VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} . Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcript] 8 Dece mber l989

The House met at 9:00a.m . M R . S P E A.K E R ( L u s h ) : Order, please! Oral Questions MR. WOODFORD: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: -Th-e - · ·hon-~:··· ---the Member for Humber Valley. MR. WOODFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . My question is to the Minister responsible for Forestry and Agriculture (Mr. Flight). Could the Minister infor·m the House if he has had any meetings with the top officials of Corner Brook Pulp and Paper, more commonly kno!Am as 1 Kruger 1 in this Province, tAli thin the last few week? MR. SPEAKER: The han. l:he Minist.E:'I'' of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. FLIGHT: No, Mr.

Speaker, I have not had any meetings with them. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. FLIGHT: Hang on a minute, Mr. Speaker. Yes. First when the ME!rrtber askE!d the question, I considered that he meant did I personally meet. with t h c::1 m . Y e s , I wa s pre s e n t at a meeting with Kruger top management within the past three weeks. MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Mc::Hnbc::1r for Humber Valley. L1 December 8, 1.989 Vol XU MR. WOODFORD: Could the Minister tell the House, Mr. Speaker, specifically if the topic of any possibility of downtime in 1990 was discussed? Could he inform the House? MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the MinistE!r of Fore:1stry and AgricultUI"e. MR. FLIGHT : No, Mr. Speaker. The han. Mc::11Tibel" w:il1 knoLIJ that thE!I"E:1 ar·e any number of topics this Government would discuss !Ali t.h Kruger, the operator of a major t~.Joodl.ands operation. The:1re was a tAJhole range a·f is s u e s dis c us sed . I cannot say specifically the topic he alluded to was discussed. MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Member f or Humber ~alley. MR. WOODFORD: Mr.

Speaker, my concerns are h1gitimah1 and l:hey are confil"rned, to a c-E!rtain extE!nt, tAli th l"e~Jal"d to the cutback :in l:he logg'.'i.ng operations in ·the arE:!a, aLl. a1onq the Gi"een Bay/Humber Va1ley aJ"ea, and even out r~.Jest:, to a U:!l"tain extent. So I ask the Minister if within the next short while he would Lhr:! l"E' mill thE• specifically ask Kruger if IAJi.ll bo any dot~.mttrnE! in LhE~ in the upcoming year.. beuwsc::1 loggers have been notified, some of their oper~tions on t~.Jest coast have been drastically for the next season? MR.

SPEAKER: and the cut rhe han. the Minis tel" of Forestry and Agricul tur·e. MR. FLIGHT : Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have no pr•oblem in giving t.hE~ hon. MEWtbE!l" No. SO rn

a commitment that we will be discussing that particular issue with ·Kruger . I might remind the hon. Mt~mber also, of course, that this time of the year both the major logging companies cut back. Abitibi-Price laid off most of their loggers a month ago, long before any announcement on the mill operation, and I would presume the same thing is true wi i:h Kruger. MR. WOODFORD: Ml"~ea"ke~ a fina l supplementary . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley. MR.

WOODFORD : I realize that this time of the year the logging operations cut back, but I just want to make it clear to the Minister that this is something new, that in their annual allowable cut for next year, they have been cut. Again I would ask him to address those concerns. I am not trying to press on any panic button or anything like that, but just address the concerns with Kruger and probably they will be up-front with the Premier and say, whether there is a possibility or not. Could he ask the company to address those concerns? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture . MR. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his question and I can assure him that we will address those concerns in the next days. If I might qualify, I might say to the Member that whether there is a cutback in ·Kruger 1 s logging operation or not, it will have nothing to do with Kruger 1 s annwal L2 • December 8, 1989 Vol XLI allowable cut, because it is th~~ Province which sets the annual allowable cut, and there is not a difficulty with their annual allowable cut as far as their wood supply is concerned. MS VERGE : Ml". Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: -The _____ han. the Member fo1~ Humber East. MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker . I ha~e a question for the Premier. Earlier this week the Minister of Finance (Dr·. l<itchE!

n) announced in the House that because of unexpected increases in Federal Government paymt~nts l:o t:he Province, he is projecting an improvement in the Provincial Government 1 s Budget for this year. He said h~~ is now projecting a current . account surplus of not $5 rni.l.lion as originally predicted. but not.~J $52 million. My quest. :ion for Lhe Premier is whether the Premier and t:he Government tAiill share l:.his windfall rev~nue with the people in our Province who are needy, with people who have low incomes and who are disaduantag~~d For other reasons?

Will the Premier share thi s windfall revenue with disadvantaged pE!oplE:' by funding programs for victims of Cl"'ilne, by increasing the Legal Aid budget, by increasing the soc ial assistance payments, by boosting the child tAJelfaJ~e bud~~et and, among other lhings, by opening beds in hospitals and chronic care institutions which are now not being operated? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. No. 50 R2

PREMIER WELLS: Let me correct the misstatements in the hon. Member 1 s representations. There is no surplus. Theine is no IJJindfall revenue in surplus. The deficit on the Government 1 s operations will be smaller by reason of a couple of things, largely additional revenue primarily because of the superb performance of the Ontario economy. It is the biggest single factor in this. Secondly, we have reduced our expenses somc::~what. So the overall shortfall in the Budget will be down significantly below what was expected. AN HON. MEMBER : Down by about $200 million .

PREMIER WELLS: It will be down in the vicinity of $200 million. Instead of having to increase the total debt of the Province by $250 million to meet the needs this year, we will only have to increase the dc~~bt of the people of this Province by $200 million. So that is not exactly a windfall situation. The Gov.ernrnent has something which the Government has and is using -for its benefit that you want us to share with the people. The money beJ.ongs to the people of the Province. The question is, how the Government intBnds to manage the financial affairs of the people?

And the question that we have to decide is whether we tAd.ll still borrow and greatly increase the public debt of the Province, bearing in mind that we are already the highest per capita debt in the Country, whether we will increase that still further or whether we will allow the savings that have been realized, due to the increased revenue and some savings on expenses, to L3 Decembe1n 8, 1989 Vol XLI enable us to redUCE! the:~ dl':!bt somewhat? Frankly, Mr. Speaker, it is a decision we will be taking over the course of the next few months, and we will be making the right decisions based on needs at the time.

And it is not a question of having cash that IAJe can hand out. at tAJill, that is a · total misrepresentation of the reality. MR. SPEAKER: -··-·---·-·--· The han . the Member for Humber East. MS VERGE : Mr. Speaker, it is a gem~ra1ly accepted accounting principal to separate current and capital accounts. And no matter hotAJ thE! Premier wan·ts ·to characterizc::t it, the fact of the matter is that the Provincial Government now has $47 million more in revenue than the Minister of Finance predicted back in the. spring. Ml". Speaker, 1 IJJould like to ask the Pre:~rnier .

IAJhy, in light of his analysis, hE! calls himself a Liberal? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: I could t.ake a f1:!\JJ hou1ns to explain why I call myself a Liberal. There are thousands of very good reasons tAJhy I call myself a Liberal, one of IAJhich is, in addition to having concern fo1n the day-to-day needs of people, we have concern for the future of people.

We do not want to · burden our children and granclchi1dren with a debt that they cannot bear and put them in a situation where they tAJill not: be able to operate hospitals and schools five and tE!n years down the road. rhat is one No. 50 R3

of the reasons why I call myself a Liberal. Because we have a sense of responsibility, not only to the immediate political future, what will make us politically attractive in the meantime, we have a sense of responsibility for the longer term future. That is one of the reasons I call myself a Liberal. MR. HEWLETT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Green Bay . MR. HEWLETT: Than"i<Yo~--Mr. Speaker. I haue a question for the Minister of Forestry. The forest industry in Green Bay is running out of steam.

The cutbacks to the Grand Fa1ls mill affect us, the Kruger Company has cutback as tAJell. t~Jith contractors on its wood requirements, and the Crown limits, the amount of tAJood available is actually shrinking. Silviculture is one way of addressing this problem. It is an in0estment in the future of our forest, and it is also highly labour intensive. I would ask the Minister if unemployed loggers in Green Bay, in the upcoming season can expect increased silviculture activity in the Green Bay area? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. MR. FLIGHT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I thank the hon. the Member for his question. The hon. Member will know the Province•s ability to carry out a silviculture program, and it. is our hope that we can carry out an expanded Ll\. December 8, 1989 Vol XLI ·. silviculture program next year. But he will know our ability to do so t.uill depend on our success in signing a new forestry agreement with Ottawa. That agreement is now being negotiated, and it is our hope that it will be an agreement with the kind of dollars there that tAJill per·mi.t us to expand a very much needE!d silviculture program, ·both in Green Bay and the rest of Newfoundland. MR.

SPEAKER : The hon. the Member for Green Bay . MR. HEWLETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In Green Bay, the Crown limits, as I said, are shrinking. But: ther•?. are some forest lands that have been ir) the hands of Kruqer really, way back in the Bowater days, for many, many decades, I suppose, and sometimes sornE! of these lands can be frt~ed up on a plot basis to assist smaller contractors in the area. Is l:.he Mini .ster aware of this situation? Has he any plans to free up more tJJood of this nature to hE!lp srnaJl contractors in the area? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Min:i.ster of FolnE•stlny and Agriculture. MR.

FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I can l:.l~ 1.1 thE~ hon. Member the limits are not shrinking, the wood is being cut. The timber lirn:i.ts atnE:~ 1noughJ.y the same size as they were a long tim~ ago. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Metnbel" tArill know that J.ast fall this Government negotiated with Kruger an E!Xchange of land known as Chouse Brook. That is the l:ype of thing he is talking about. We No. 50 R4

were successful in doing that. And the purpose For the ·transfer was to provide sawmill stock for the people who lived in the Chouse Brook area. Every opportunity we get we talk to the company about the possibility of transferring or exchanging land so that we will have the timber supplies we need to maintain a viable sawmilling industry. And I must tell the Member he is right, and I suspect nobody knows better than he does that it is getting very difficult to maintain a timber supply to the various sawmill operators and private operators, ' in the . Green Bay area in particular. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Green Bay. MR .. HEWLETT: Mr . Speaker, I thank the Minister . I have one further question, but I will put it to the Minister ·af Development. Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Development indicated in a debate on the Economic Recovery Commission that ·this Commission had visited many groups, businesses, industries and so on. The Commission has visited such - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. HEWLETT: an industry in Gineen Bay, Mr. S~eaker, Superior Wood Products.

Tha·t particular company is in the secondary processing of wood products, kiln dried lumber, hardwood flooring, panelling, mouldings, and custom--fit logs for building housing and cabins. But visits are not enough, Mr. Spe!aker. This is a struggling company, a fledgling, a pioneering L5 Dec(:1rnber 8 , 1989 Vol XLI company, Minister part of support, industry, our rural and I lAJo_uld ask thE! is the Government he is a going to continue to yea nurture such an so that we can diversify economy? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. thE! Min:i.ster of Development. MR. FUREY : Mr.

Speaker, the Economy Recovr:1ry Commission has been, as the Member has rightly said, travel].ing all over Newfoundlan~ and Labrador consulting with a great wide variety of groups, par·ticular1y small businesses, and, in particular, the business the hon. Member referrr:~d to. And I think, in fact., that Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporatioh, of which the Economic Recovery Commissioners sit on thE! Board of Directors, are currently in discussions with that particular company to see how they can help this company get through somE! difficult times they have come upon.

But in response to the· general question arE! the Cornrrd.ss:i.oners and is the Commission helping companies that comE:~ and knock on the door and seek their assistance in terms of information, lAJhatevr:'ln data is available, market supp1y, and general business plans, and financing and refinancing, the anst~.Jer is yes, YE!S t.o that company, yes to every sinqle company that wa.nts to expand and wants to have help, and yes to every single NelAJfoundlandeln and Labradorian no matter where they 1 i'v e , if the y h a v e a g o o cl t d e a to come in to start. a new business. The anstAJer is yes on al1 counts, Mr.

SpE:~aker. PREMIER WELLS : No . 50 R5

Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: I rise on a point of order, to bring myself to order and apologize to the han. Member. I thought he was asking the question of the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture (Mr. Flight). I was speaking to the Minister, and I sincerely apologize to him. It was an error on my part, and I ought not to have done it. I certainly would not have been speaking with him had I thought that. But I am impressed tAiith the quality of tu.Jo ears. He must have two brains, too, he got both questions. I apologize to the House and to the Member. M.R.

SPEAKER: The point of order is well taken. M ~ . ..:.__l:i_IB..B~ : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. Mary 1 s -the Capes. MR. DOYLE : Harbour Main. MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry, the han. the Member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations (Ms Cowan). The Minister will be aware that the Federation of Labour recently presented its brief to Government and it made a number of recommendations it wishes Government to consider and possibly impJ.ement. One. of those recommendations deals with the L6 December 8, 1989 VoJ.

XLI minimum wage and _the Federation 1 s wish to have the minimum wage raised in annual increment:s of fifty cents an hou1n untiJ. it reaches 60 per cent of the average industrial wage for the ProvinCE!. Could the Minister give the House some indication of I10lJJ GovernrnE!nt. is dealing lAJith that request and if the request is going to be granted? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the MinistE!r of Employment and Labour Relations. ~S COW.B~: Mr. Speaker, the matter is being considered, as are all recommendations put forward in that particular brief . MR. SPEAKER : The han . thE! Mt'mi:H~r fat" Hcld)QtH' Main . MR .

DOYLE: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary . It is the Federation 1 s be!li.ef, I believe, that the lAJay the currE!nt minimum wage is divided up, the way it is structured, it discriminates against people who are employed as domestics or people who are involved Jn the babysitting end of employmen~ in private homes and what have you. Is it the Government 1 s intention to allow for the inclusion of domestic workers in the category of workers lAJho ar'E! subject to gener·al minimum lAJage provisions and that ali rights and privileges accorded to other workers be likewise applied to domestic workers, as well? MR .

SPEAKER: The hon . the MintstE!r of Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN : No. 50 R6

As with the first question, Mr. Speaker, the matter is being considered . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: AS usu·a·:l, Mr. Speaker, I am not getting too many answers from the Minister. Could the Minister give the House some indication of how the present tt..vo--tiered approach to the minimum IAJage fits in Lo.Ji th l:he Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Has Government sough·t out any legal counsel as to whether or not the present system is discriminatory?

And since most of these domestic people are female, is it possible or even probable that the minimum wage as it is set up right now is discriminatory? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations . MS COWAN: Yes, we have and u1e considered. Speaker. MR. PARSONS: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: sought legal opinion matter is being Thank you, Mr. Tht:~ hon. the Member for St. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: ·-ri1-an·k you~·-Mr. Speaker . My question is to the Minister of Education (Dr. Warren).

He stated that as the Minister of Educa·tion he does not see the school tax being abolished, contrary to their election promise. I want to ask the· M i n is t e r , has i t been t a k en into consideration that the L7 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI amounts of money to be collecl~.ed if added to our personal income ·tax IAJould amount to approximately 8 to 9 percentage points, and the rich, because of loophoh!S in our Income Tax Act, in many instances may not be obliged to pay school tax, and that the poor of our people are exempt, and rightly so.

It has to be rt':11Tit':1Tnbt:~rE!d that large corporations pay 30 per cent of the money that is collected. Did the Minister take into consideration that if Government IAJ.t:1re to adopt this scenar·io, the who1e liability would fall on the shoulders of the workers of our Province, the middle-class? MR. SPEAKER: . ··- The hon. the Minister of Education. DR. WARREN : Mr : Speaker, I know the ansl.l.lE!Y' to that question, but I feel like taking notice of it.. I Lo.Ji11 try to answer it this morning, if you will forgive my hoarseness. I did not say, Mr. SpeakE!r, that the party pr·ornised to abolish the school tax.

Mr. Sp101akr:.~r, in l:he election we promised to lnt':1View it l.o~Jith a viet.o~J to either abolishing or reforming the tax. ALl. options are being considered, Mr. Speaker. We are very actively pursuing that promise. We are reviewing it, and a11 options ar·e being considered. I can assure the hon. Member that this party has a triple E •:!ducational poLicy a triple E policy, equality, excellence and efficiency, and tAle are going to review the school tax .within the context of that policy. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John .l s East Extern. MR.

PARSONS: Because of the to the question, No. so Minister's answer Mr. Spt:'akE!r. I arn R7

led to believe that Treasury Board and Cabinet are at loggerheads as it pertains to the school tax being abolished, and Cabinet cannot go along with school tax being abolished. I would like to ask the Minister to tell this House if he believes that the money collected by the school tax is essential for the schools to retain their status and give teachers, pupils, and school boards a means to maintain and improve their facilities and programs? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. DR. - WARREN: Mr·. Spe-aker, I will not comment on the debate that is ongoing.

It is an important issue, and I am sure in the Province there is quite a debate. The hon. Member knows that quite a lobby is underway now. Letters are being written and I have received them for some tirne ori this issue, on both sides oF the issue. So it is an important matter on which there is widespread debate. Secondly, is the money essential? Certainly, and much more is essential if we are going to provide equality of educational opportunity in this Province. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

I want to ask the Minister of Education would he agree that if either of the alternatives were brought into play and the monies derived would end up in general revenue, because of changes in Ministers, changes in Government, emergency needs of other L8 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI departments,- how could the Minister say to this House that he could guarantee these monies collected would go to the school boards? MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the Mini~ter of Education . DR. WARREN: The answer to that question, Mr.

Speaker, is very simple. rhis Government has a firm commitment to education as a high priority in this Province, and we lAriJ.l. live by that commi·trnent. MS DUFF: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John 1 s East. MS DUFF: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to dirE!Cl: this question to the Minister of Mun{cipal and Provincial Affairs. The Minister is aware that back in 1988 a proposal was being seriously considered to develop a new facility for the Provincial Art Gallery, and· that that would be combined with a mid-sized theatre as a multicultural facility.

At the time, the previous Administration had made a commitment to examine the feasibility of this pl~oject, and set up a committee of bureaucrats from three departments to look at it. Of course, the timing was such that th!i:~ Government changr::!d, and I would like to ask l:he Minister now if, in fact, he is seriously considering ·this proposal, if he has d:iscussed it with the Minister of Developm!i:~nt and the Minister of Education, who would also need to be involved, and if, in fact, the cornrn :ittE•e of No. SO R8

"" bureaucratics has re-established? It was to been headed by Mr. Bill Frost. MR. SPEAKER: been have The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Yes, Min·~- Speaker, indeed the Assistant Deputy Minister, Bill Frost, and officials from other Departments as well as my own Department, have been examining the feasibi1ity of such a ga1lery and potentially anQther arts and culture facility, if you like. That Committee has been ongoing now for several months. We are also looking at the problem we have with the Archives.

So the1ne is a potential for a facility that would incorporate the Archives, the Art Gallery and another arts and culture facility. To answer the question, the Committee is still operating. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's East. MS DUFF: The Minister is also aware, I think, that at the time the City of St. John's made an offer to the Province to donate a piece of land worth $2 million in the downtown - our interest :i.n it wou1d be part of the overall Downtown Revitalization Program ·- and that the Committee tl1at was originally set up had representation from the senior bureaucracy at City Hall.

I would like to ask the Minister, if the Committee has been re .. ·-established, is it now his intent to exclude the representation from City Hall and to drop the idea of putting this facility in a downtown location? In other words, turning down the 1...9 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI gift of the City. If not, why has he not responded to letters f1"om the City over the past nurnb~1r of months asking if hE~ is sti11 interested in the proposal? In other words, is "l:his proposal now dead in terms of the Province's considerations? MR. SPEAKER: nie hon ... the Minister of Mun:i.cipal and Provincial Affairs. MR.

GULLAGE: No~· Mr. Speaker. WE! have, in fact, huo pieces of land madE! available to us. One is availablE! from the Provincial Crown Lands IAii thin the City, the other piece of land is, indeed, adjoining City Hail, next to City Hall. We are aware of th€:1 deadli.ne, if you like, established by the City. We do have to ciE~c-.:tl with th€:1 matt.:E•r, and make a decision as a Government as to whether WE! lAJant to proceed t,.,Jith accepting l:he gift of that land and looking at potentially a facility on it. So we are! looking at l:hat.

I arn WE!ll aware of the fact that I have been written on it, and I have had conversations JAJi.th officials at City Ha11. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the ME!IT1be1n for· St. John's East. _MS___Q_l,! __ f[ : Would the Minister please undertake to write officially to the City and indicate that hE! Js still actively interes l:ed in that offer of land?

I think it m:i.g h l:: not bo a bad idea, also, to include, as was originally intended, representation from the senior bureaucracy so that the City is aware of the Province's interest in that land, because the deadline tJJas · May of 1989, and ther"=1 is other intE!r~1st bei.ng No. 50 R9

expressed in that land. So, I would ask the Minister, would he undertake immediately to write the City and indicate that the Province is still interested in pursuing this proposal? MR. SPEAKER: The han . the Minister of MunicipaJ. and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Yes, Mr ..... Speaker, I can certainly write a letter and incorporate in that letter all of the detail that has been talked about ~n conversations and in letters between my officials and City Hall, and also conversations that I have had. I am well au.1are of thE! deadline.

We are pursuing the matter with diligence, and hopefully we will have a solution and a recommendation to Government as quickly as we can so we can decide whether or not that land will be used by the Government or otherwise . We are working on the matter. The Committee is working quite hard. Bill Frost is responsible for this particular area of my Department. He is working on it, and he has conversations and correspondence back and forth between City Hall. I will incorporate all of that correspondence in a letter to the Mayor. MR. WINSOR: Mr·. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Member for Fogo . MR.

WINSOR: Th~n~u~ Mr . Speaker . My question is to the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. The Minister has now . been back . LlO December 8, 1989 VoJ. XLI •, .. from Ottawa . for some days, where she had meetings with the Minister of Employment regarding the Emergency Response Program. Can the Minister now inform this House what new changes came into effect? What affect has it had on the people of the Northeast Coast of. Newfoundland generally? What does she intE:1nd to do to~.Jith those who do not qualify, other than her previous suggestion of resort ing to social services? MR .

SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations . MS COWAN: A c-t u a 11 y , M r . S pea I< e r , l:I·H~ rn ember is not very up--to--datE! on my comings and goings, because I have been back in Ottawa again this week further pursuing concel~ns tJJc:> have regarding unemployment in the Province. There is no answer I can give the hen. gentleman further to what has been given in the past. We are doing everything we can to meet these people's needs.

They make up part of LhE! unemployed of this Province, a great group of people fo1n whorn I have genuine cdncern and for IAJhom I have been putting considerabJ.e time and effort into the last FetJJ days trying to do somE:1thing about 8 i 11 C-2 1 , w hi c h e v e r yo n e s e E!ITI s to have forgotten about. MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . The Minister has said there were to be some changes. My question was, what were the changes announced in Ottawa last week? MR. SPEAKER: The han .- the Minister For No. 50 RlO ·.

Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN: l:~ink if you double-check Hansard you tJJill see that I said the han. Barbara McDougall said there would be no changes in the actual regulations but that she was trying to ·- .AN ~O~_:__MEMBER: She wants them to go on welfare . MS COWAN : Do lJOU want to hear the answer to the question or not? AN HON. MEMBER : She wants them all to go on welfare. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I want to remind hon. Members, han. Members should know our Standing Orders state quite !=learly that no Member is to interrup~ another Member. I believe that just happened, and I as I< hon.

Members to extend to all Members common courtesy when they are speaking and not to interrupt, please, particularly when it is known that that parti"cular Member does not like to be· interrupted. I am sure all hon. Members should now know the styles of the various Members. The hon. the Member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR : The Minister should check with CEIC and find out what the new regulations are, because indr,~ed thE!re are some.

The Minister might also be atJJare that new · entrants into the Fishery this year, first time entrants into the fishery, many of them were only successful in getting ten or eleven UIC contribution LJ..Jeel<s. In Lll Dect::~mber 8, 1989 Vol XLI view of the fact that the Fishery appears to be on the verge of being downsized, can the Minis l:er now tell us how she intends to help these people, and does her Department have any new training initiatives, or programs in place to facilitate these people? MR. SPEAKER: The ___ hon .- the Minis tel" of Employment and Labour Relations .

MS COWAN : I am not sure if the gE!nt.lE!rnan is talking about the immediate response or the long-term response, Mr. Speaker. As far as the long-term response is concerned, which I believe is LJ..Jhat he was saying, a1though I arn not sure, my Department. is heavi.ly involved with the Departrne~t of Fisheries and Federal Government officials in trying to develop diversification progl"ams and so on that will meet the needs of anyone who is displaced due to the limited fish stocks. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for Fogo . MR. WINSOR: A final question to thE! MinistE!l" of Fisheries.

Can the Minister now tell this House tJJhat, if any, plans his Department has madE:~ to facilitate fishel"men LJ..Jho wiLl not be able to make payments to the Fisheries Loan Board, either the payment or inte1"est this year, because of the disastrous fishery? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, if there are fishermen out there who cannot make payments, 1egi timate1y cannot make payments on his or her boat, then they are required to make No. ~0 Rll

that known to- the Fisheries Loan Board, provide whatever other documentation is necessary. and I am sure consideration will be given. MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has expired. Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Commitees MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Minis tel~ of Social Services . MR. EFFORD : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. M r . Speaker , I wo u 1 d like • today , to table the reports of the Dep ·artment of Social Services for the years 1986-87, 1987-88, and I have the current report, 1988--89, to show what an efficient Administration we are running over here. .Thank you. MR.

RIDEOUT: (Inaudible) over the last month, how did you get the reports ready? Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: fhe hon. the Minister of Works, ~ervices and Transportation. MR. GILBERT : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, the Member for Kilbride asked questions concerning our policy with regard to the awarding of tenders and concerning the POA L12 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI -. Act. I told him I would table that part of the Act today. Also, he asked questions about a contract not awarded to Rideout Transport because of the lack of a POA number .

The project in question was for site drainage improvements to the Newfoundland School for the Deaf. in ~3t. John's. Tenders were called and received for this project on November 15, 1989. The lot..uest bid was submitted by Rideout's Transport LirnitE!d but. the company di.d not have a POA numbE!r . Th1~ tender was analyzed as per the guidelines of the provincial preference policy, so the fact tha l:. the company did no l: have a POA numbE!r was taken into account. In keeping with those guidelines, thE! SE!Cond l::d.dclt::•l~ LlJas the preferred bidder.

However. due to the fact that. all tenders received were substantially above the figure the department h'ad bud g et:E!d f Ol" the project, the project was canc~lled. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TOBIN: fhat LlJas the easy lAJay out of it, eh? 0 0 0 MR. K. AYLWARD : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Stephenville, on a point of order. MR. K. AYLWARD : Mr. Speaker, bE!fore we proceE!d tAli th Orders of the Day. t.ui l:h l:he drastic event which happened in • No . SO Rl2 ·.

.... Montreal within the last couple of days, I would like to ask if the House would go on record and send telegrams to the University of Montreal and to the families of the victims. I th:ink the tragedy which has occurred is something that has hit home tJJith everybody in Canada, and I think we should go on record as a House of Assembly and send a telegram. MS VERGE: ·Mr. speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ----···-·--The han. the Member for Humber East. MS VERGE : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . On behalf of the Official Opposition I would like to endorse the suggestion of the Member for StE!phenuille.

I think this tragic criminal act should make all of us reflect on the extent of violent crime against women and children in our society. MS COWAN : Hear, hear! MS VERGE: ThE! ma .. ssacre in Montreal is but an extreme example of every day acts of violence against women and children. I think those in the Legislature responsible for Justice and for Social Services should reflect now on how we can preside over changes that will get at the root causes of violence.

Perhaps education is the sector which has the potential to do thE! most good in terms of addressing thE! root causes of uioJ.ent crime against women i:lnd children. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the Day L13 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI MR. BAKER: Order 11. MR. SPEAKER: Motion, 11

An Act Recovery 40). second reading of a Bill Respecting The Economic Commission. 11 (BilJ. No. The han. the Member for LaPoile. MR . RAMSAY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, having approximately -tlJJelue minu·tes remaining, I lAJould like to get a little furthE!r into some of the Members opposite and their analysis of 8111 40, some questions they had about the Bill. Under Clause 9 of the BiJl, thE! han. the Member for Humber East mentioned that she could not understand tJJhy the Cornmi s s ion had the ability to lend money or grant money with all the other ins ti tuU.ons to be auailE!d · of. Well, Mr.

Speaker, the purpose of the Economic Recovery Commission, as I understand it, is to he1.p to bridge the gap. When aLl othe1n things have broken dotJJn, they can, of course, btnidge thE! gap ' and assist businesses in seeing to it that things moVE! smoothly through and over bureaucracy if necessatny, to facilitate business dE!als being put together. You have to have that ability. To understand business, you have your bridge financing component when you initially are w6rking on a business idea for your capital expenditure or whatnot, and, of course, the basic bank financing cannot always be arranged irnm~~diateJ.y.

Now, the Commission has to have that ability to· tap into some funding in order to bridge finance deals. Also, depending on the No. so R13

future of organizations, the way the new policies of ACOA may take place through NLDC, we may then require that the Economic Recovery Commission operate its own financial resource base for use to bridge this gap. Now there would be, in my opinion, no trouble then qualification of 9(e), (g), for them to lend security satisfactory Commission. for the (

f) and money to on the We do not hear them mentioning across the way at all, really, the amount of security required. There has to be a decision as to the amount of security required. As we know, banks these days, in most business ventures of any risk whatsoever, would require very excessive collateral. Now if this is an impediment to business, I am certain the Economic Recovery Commission, as they are devising their policies, would possibly choose to have the amount of collateral required not as high as the two, three, four, five, and sometimes in excess of that, times the amount of actual risk being taken.

So, Mr. Speaker, this is a very important component which allows the Economic Recovery Commission to act as if they were an entity within themselves, which, of course, they are, not having to go to other institutions. They can act on their own financially, and this is a very important component. I refer b a c k to the co mm u nit y of Port aux Basques, which is now operating a similar organization only for a local mandate and not a provincial mandate, the Community Diversification Corporation, which also has a ·lot of these same procedures available to them . L lLI - DecembE!r 8, 1989 Vol XLI . ~ . .

They have their own pool of capital, which they do use occasionally, although they also access other forms of Government finance and private finance. So the ability to build, along with your own amount of finance to assist business, as well as the other levels of finance for business which are available, i.s a very important component. We will look at some of the other aspects of what the Commission has the power to do under Clause 9: (

a) They may 11 E!nter into agreements with agencies of the Government of Canada, cot~pora !:.ions and individuals to give effE!Ct to its purposes and duties;" Well, that is pretty substantial and a very basic requirement.

Also, you may note, in (b) 11 lAJOrk with departments or agencies of the government of Canada {:o catnry out or implement on th Edr bE! half programs that are in keeping lArith the objectives of the Commission. 11 Now, this also lAi"ill allow them to carry out the various mandates on a c~:!i'l"l:r·al bas-is, I wouJ.d say, of the vad.ous federal agencies to co --ordinate these activities in ordE!r to help assist business . Part (c) 11 direct tho activit .ies of the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation".

WE! have heard ·some criticism of the way that the Economic Recovery Commission have taken over the Board of NLDC. NLDC and its employees, as I understand H :, are a very professional group of individuals, but the way it was run in the past, with a board of directors who possibJ.y had no real handling of any of the functions to do with the actual day- .. to-day operations, I think the No. 50 R14

Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporatton possibly got away from its own mandate. They were not operattng as they could have given the proper t:ype of input from a board, and with this smaller more active Board of Directors, the Economic Recovery Commission, I think we can look forward to a much more productive operation out of Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation. So, unlike Members opposite, I would see that as a very positive aspect of the Economic Recovery Commis~ion in directing the future operations of the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation.

ThE!re are some other things which were questioned: To be able to obtain information from Governm~nt Departments. Well, this is all very important. And, of course, being employees of Clnown agencies and/or the Government, we must have available to us all th .e information we can obtain in order to ass is t us in fila king the right business decisions. And if you feel this is a snub to the employees of the Department of Development, as was mentioned by Members opposite, I think it is not a matter of staking out territory, Mr.

Speaker, it is a matter of working together for the best possible end for the Province as a whole, and for business in general. If a Department of Government is doing its part to assist in business development of a larger scale, and I underst.and the Department of Development will be concentrating on the larger industries, the Economic Recovery Commission should have a benl: to help the small and medium-sized industries and small businesses in thE! Province.

So this is not a matter of stepping on the toes of the bureaucrats in OnE! particular department, it is a mal:.ter of ~ LlS De•cernber 8, 1989 Vol X L.I concentrating your efforts where you can best serve the public, and where you can fulfill the mandate of the Government insomuch as trying to creab?. business development. I think that is a VE!ry kE!Y issue. If you have a department which is handling everything from your basic small business right: on through to the larger industriE!S, you then would end up with something that does not have a very solid focus.

With this, we focus thE! requirements of lh~~ Economic Recovery Cornrnission on the small and medium-sized businesses, and also co-ordinate the total business activities of the Province somewhat, the direction we want to take with regards to manufacturing, the direction we want to take with regards to entrepreneurship in the Province. And this concentration on small and medium-sized enterprises wtll asstst us tn getting younger people and also in getting people who have ofLen wondered, how can I start a business?

Well, about Members opposite how ACOA, tho mentioned Atlantic Canada Opportunities Age!ncy, is very poorly representr~d as far as local knowledge of that agency goes. This is the kind of t:hing we have to make sure does not happen with this.

And I said to M~~mbers opposite, and on this side, I v..Jould hope that th,?.y also would make their constituents aware of the availability of assistance from the Economic Recovery Commission, and hopE!fully co--ordinated so that there is not a plethora of Government programs there, but a fE!W programs that arE! easy to understand and leave it to th~' people v..Jho have the expertise to assist. th10! business people of No. SO RlS

the Province in order to sharp their getting facilitate a prompt and very operation in getting financing in place and · their businesses started. Mr. Speaker, to conclude, I feel that in general the Opposition are opposing this. But we have to look back at the pressure they were putting on us when they said you were going to appoint an Economy Recovery Commission and you have not done it. It was part of your campaign platform, they said_. and you still not have done it. Now that it is done, they are saying, well, we do not know if it is going to work. Mr.

Speaker, if we were to look into the future and say we know it is, it would be foolish for us to try to assume that. But we must say that we are wiJ.ling to give it a try and to get into the mandate of trying to make something happen as opposed to still studying it. Mr. Speaker, I feel this is very important and that Bill 40 should pass. With that, I lAiill allow someone else to continue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : Before recognizing another Member the Chair would like to welcome to the House of Assembly, on behalf of hon. Members, seventy-four Grade IX students from St.

Peter 1 s Elementary · School, in .Mount Pearl. They are accompanied by their teachers, Mary Sullivan and Jeff Arnold. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Member for Burin Placentia West. Ll6 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI MR. TOBIN: Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker . I would like to take the opportunity to participate in this debate on Bill 40 as it relates to the Economic Recover~ Team that is supposed to be the saviour, the be-all and end-all of Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr.

Speaker, some drastic th.i.ngs have taken place since Bill 40 was introduced into this Province in terms of job creation. There lAJas confirmation yesterday, something we had all known for some time, by the Minister of Fisheries that NatSea was going to be closing down a fish plant in NE!lAJfoundland and throwing several hundred people out of work. There has been an acknowledgement by . t.h•;! Government, even though it is nothing new to us, that FPI operations throughout this Province al~e in jeopardy, at loast three and probably four according to the President of FPI.

You have FPI announcing that they are gering to close down a minimum of fifteen trawlers in Newfoundland, so if you put all that together, which happened in the past WE!ek, and it is certainly encouraging news, I am sure, for the Economic RecoVE!ry Team. We have a group here, Mr. Speaker, a non-elected group in this Province, which has takE!n ovt:'r l::he responsibility of elected officials. It is obvious the eJected officials and the PrE!lTliel~ do not share any confidence in his Cabinet nor in his Caucus.

If the Premier thought his Cabinet was overworked and they cou1d not find time to deal with the economic recouery of Newfoundland, then why did t:he Premier not look at: his Caucus and see what was thE!re, if anyone there had the material No. SO R16

~~ necessary to make the contribution to the economic recovery of Newfoundland that he promised? Why is it that the Premier has displayed by the appointment of this Commission, not necessarily by the appointment of the Commission, but by the power that he has invested in the Commission - it is something that has to be very degrading. I am sure the Minister of Development must feel dejected by the fact that the Premier has stripped his powers and given it to non-elected persons. MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Social Services can say what he like. Let me say to the Minister of Social Services that there was an

article in the paper recently, Government by Commission, and that

article shares the views of the majority of Newfoundlanders. The Economic Recovery Team is out on the street, and you can go out and listen to what the people are saying; the people are talking ' about the powers that have beon stripped from the Cabinet. There is no doubt about that. It is quite clear he1ne. 1 It is hard to forget Premier Clyde Wells has stated emphatically that neither his office nor any arm or agency of Government tAiill seek to direct the mandate which the Commission is to carry out.

The mandate, it will be recalled, is to renovate the economy of the Province, and in th~ process provide job opportunities for thousands of Newfoundlanders. 1 does that say in confidence the Mr. Speaker, what terms of the Premier has in editorial goes his Cabinet? The on to say, 'Why 1..17 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI should an agency with sweeping powers over the economy report only to the Premier? Does Mr. Wells have so little regard for his Ministers that he does not want them to know or influence what the Commission is doing?' Now, that is not someone on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker.

It was not me nor any of me colleagues who said that, that is an editorial in a newspaper. MR. EFFORD: (Inaudible). MR. TOBIN: Speaker. the Premier has let us all know what Now, Mr. basically confidence Minister of he holds in the Social Services. MR. HODDER: They are one level higher than the Cabinet. MR. TOBIN: The Pre.mier has let us all know about the confidence he has in his Cabinet . This editorial goes on to say 'Why should not the appropriate Cabinet Minister, in this case the .

Ministe1n of Development, and ·remember it is the Cabinet and not:. ·the Prt~urier which constitutes the Government of the Province, be able to direct the manner in which the Commissioners carry out their mandate? 1 - N OIAJ. M r . Speaker . the Pre rrr.i E! r is part of the Cabinet. ThE! Prern'i.er was part of the Cabinet frorn 1972 until 1989. But since 1989. the Premier is not just part oF thE! Cabinet, the Premier is the Cabinet. Do not lose sight of that, and all Newfoundlanders know it. 'We have carefulJ.y. No. so been watching Mr. w'ells There is a rny- -wc-.1y or R17

no-way tendency. 1 That is the belief that is shared today by the majority of Newfoundlanders. We can accept the fact that most people in Newfoundland in the last election voted for the Progressive Conservative Party. There were more people who voted for the Progressive Conservative Party than voted for the Liberal Party, and the Minister of Social Services should not forget that. But because of the way it was struck down, that is democracy, that is the way the Government falls. MR. EFFORD : Did you support free trade? MR. TOBIN: Did I support free trade? Most certainly I did support free trade.

And you will see the result of free trade in Burin. In my own District, you wi11 see the result of free trade, where the secondary processing plant in Burin, Mr. Speaker, will be a net positive on :the economy. Do you know why? Because we will now be able to put into the American market a finished product that was completed here in Newfoundland without tariffs being applied. That is one of the advantages of free trade, Mr. Speaker, in that sense alone.

Let me say to the President of Treasury Boar·d and his colleagues, that Burin secondary processing plant is the result of the restructuring of the fishery back in 1 9 8 2 - 1 9 8 3 . It tJJa s res u 1 t of the prE!Vious Administration who sat in this House and insisted, it was the Government of Newfoundland who insisted, that. there be a secondary processing plant in Burin. None of . us forgets, Mr.

Speaker, none of us forgets thE! fact that Pierre De Bane, who tJJas L18 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI ~ then the Minister, and the fact that Roger Simmons, who at the time was a MEnnber of the FedE!r·al Government, came to St. John 1 s, Newfoundland, and held a pt"r:~ss conference to announce unilaterally the restructuring of the fishery. Why was it being done unilaterally, Mr. SpeakE!r? Because the Peckford Administration refused to stand by and see rural N10!wfoundl.and cl~;:~aned out, tJJiped out.

That is 11.1hy thE!I"e is a secondary processing plant . in Burin, because of the emphasis and the commitment to rural Newfoundland by the previous Administration . In a matter of a fE!li.J days, probably a few hours, we tJo.li11 see NatSea wi11 be announcing that they will be closing one plant in NewfoundJ.and at this titTlE!, to throw literally hundreds of Newfoundlanders on the unemployment rolls. Hundreds of Newfoundlanders will get their notice in a matter of a few days. What is NatSea going to do with the trawlers that are feeding the plants?

What is NatSea going to do with the trawlers that are feeding H1e plants in St. John 1 s? Are they going to be fishing them, or are they going to be tying them up? Or are they going to be going back to Nova Scotia to J.and Fish from oFF the coast of Newfoundland for Nova Scotians? What is NatSea going to be dotnq t~o.d.th those trau.1lers? That is thE! question I would like to have answt:!red sorne day by the Minister of Fisheries. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have asking the Minister questions several days notJJ and WE! havE• yet receiVt':!d an anstJJii:~r. Sir, have been rather mute. MR. W. CARTER : I got (inaudible).

No. 50 ·.· .. bE!E!n for not you R18

MR. TOBIN: Okay. I will sit: down. You tell me what plants FPI are going to close. Tell me what communities you, Sir. and your Government are going to stand by. in a matter of a few days or weeks, and let die because FPI are going to be closing plants in Newfoundland. A minimum of three plants are going on the South Coast in a matter of a few days. In a matter of time, Mr. Speaker. three communi ties on the South Coast of Newfoundland wi11 not exist. The Member from Placentia might not realize it, Mr.

Speaker, but let me put it this way: Fisheries Products International cannot close their plants unless this Government approves it. Do not forget that. This Government can approve the closing of their plants or can reject closing their plants. They have now accepted the fact that National Sea will be closing their plant is St. John 1 s. and they t.~.Jill accept - MR. HOGAN: (Inaudible) . MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speake!r. we hear from thE! Member for Placentia. And do you know · something?

I have no difficulty in believing that ·this is not important to him, because he got elected 'last April by going out and saying that the Wells Administration would defend the rights of the people of Long Harbour, and they t.~.Jill ensure that Long Harbour remains. What has happened to Long Harbour since he got elected? I will tell you, Mr. Speaker - AN HON. MEMBER : Lies. Lies. Lies. MR. TOBIN: Is that word parliamentary, Mr . Ll9 December 8, 1989 Vo1 X L.I Speaker? ML .... ?PEAK .. ~!: I did not hear. MR. TOBIN : Mr. Speaker, I heard it, but it does not matter to mE!.

That is what results from a frustrated person. Long Harbour has closed. and the only activity in Long Harbour, the area the man represents, Mr. Speaker, is trucks, is moving vans. from Newfoundland to Toronto. That. is the actJ.vity he has SE!E!n in his district since he was elected. Now let me get back, Mr. Speaker, to the real issue we are talking about here. We are talking about the economy of Newfoundland and the Economic Recovery Commission which has mot~e power than the:! Governl'nent. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. TOBIN: Oh, the Member is irritable this mor~ing. That is good. NotAl, Mr.

Speaker, why lAJas t.lv.:~ Economic Recovery Team SE!t up in this Province? MR. HOGAN: To work miracles . MR . TOBIN: It was set up to wo1nk mirac1E!S. Yes, Mr. Speaker, I agree with the Member from Placentia. If it can do anything, it would be a miracle. There may be a good group of capable individuals on that Economic Recovery Tearn, but they are getting direction Frorn a very incompetent group of individuals. namely the Cabinet and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. No. 50 Rl9

MR. WALSH : Go away, boy, you are your own colleague (inaudible) . MR . TOBIN : Yes , Mr . Speaker, the Member from Mount Scio - Bell Island should speak. A man who has turned his back on the residents of Bell Island by denying them a second ferry, should speak, Mr. Speaker. Any man who betrayed his constituents the way the Member for Mount Scio - Bell Island has, he should. interject. There is absolutely no doubt about that. He has as much understanding for rural Newfoundland as that paper has for him. Those are the facts of the matter. Mr. Speaker, he has no caring or no sharing for rural Newfoundland.

He does not understand it, and he should be quiet. Now, let us look at the record of this Government in seven months. If unemployment we re to grow at the rate of almost three per cent every seven months, the unemployment rate in Newfoundland today would be at about 30 per cent. Since you people were elected, it has gone up by two and a half per cent. We have Long Harbour, in the Member 1 s district, closed since he got elected, we have the Mary 1 s Town shipyard, Mr. Speaker - MR. HOGAN: - · ·····- On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the ME!mber for Placentia on a point of order. MR.

HOGAN: (Inaudible) the House like this. First of all, Mr . Speaker, the han . Member said that we closed the plant, second, there is no \hing but moving vans in Long L20 December 8, 1989 Uol XLI Harbour, and third AN HON. MEMBER: That is not a point of order . AN HON. MEMBER: He is misleading. MR . HOGAN : Yes, totally misleading the House . and we said we were going to keep it up. We did not say that at all. He cannot go on misleading the House like that, Mr. Speakeln. MR. HEARN : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Member for St. Mary 1 s -The Capes. MR. HEARN: To that point of order, Mr.

Speaker, the gentleman is corlnE!Ct when he says there is more than just moving vans out in the yards. There ar~::~ also cars and bikes and anything that. can moVE!, because it is not only Long .H-arbour that. was closed dotAm, thE! Member stood by and le L the possible activities around Come-by-chance shift across to Trinity Bay, which also is going to lose a number of jobs :in t:he area. So, he is correct lAJhen he says that the Member is not telling the complete truth. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. The han . the Member for Burin Placentia West. MR. TOBIN : There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker.

What we have herE! is a demonstration by the Member for Placentia . And he is a frustrated No . SO 1~20

Member. If plants like Long Harbour were closing down since I was elected. as is happening since he was elected, I would be frustrated too, Mr. Speaker, particularly if the Premier and the Cabinet decided to let me down the way they have let down the han. gentleman. Now we have dealt with Long Harbour. That is gone. That is history since they were elected. What about the Marystown Shipyard, Mr. Speaker? This timE! last year there were 600 people working in the Marys town Shipyard, and today there are less than 100. And do you know something?

Last · Saturday, when I went home, I was speaking to some of my friends, one of my close friends, as a matter of fact, and his wife and children have now left for Toronto and he is leaving this week. There is close to 100 employees of the Marystown Shipyard - MR. EFFORD: Did they go on the train? MR. TOBIN: No, and I will te11 . you what they did not go on, they did .not go on the ferry you were going to bring them all home on. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: --·-----Now, Mr.

Speaker, there are approximatE!ly 100 employees of the Marys town Shipyard who have 1 ined up jobs on thE! mainland for after Christmas, most of them in the Shipyard in St. John. New Brunsu.lick. There is only one person responsible for that. and that is the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, the hon. Clyde Wells, tJJho insisted on Lil December 8, 1989 Vo1 XLI interfering with the collective agreement between the Marystown Shipyard and tht:J Marys town Union. That is exactly why there is, believe it or not. an FPI trau.Jler being construcb~d in Norway as opposed to Marys town. One man responsible. Mr.

Speaker. and that is the Premier. r1B...:_ T 0 E!.I~ : What about the St. John 1 s Dockyard since this crowd came into office, Mr. Speaker? How many employees less down there sine~~ .the Government changed six months ago? What is Dr. House going to do about that? MR. EFFORD: Hal Barrett is down there . MR. TOBIN: Yes. he is. And I will t.E!ll you something else, he is a good man. Hal Barrett was one of the best Ministers ever responsible for t:he ["larystown Shi.pyard. And .if he brings the same type of leadership to the St. John 1 s Dockyard, thE!n they have a future. MR. MURPHY: I hope you are right . MR.

TOBIN: I hope I arn too. I arn surE! the Member does. I am sure he is very sincere about that . I arn surE! hE! does hope I am right. Now, Mt~. Speaker. so you have Lon<] Harbour gone, you have the Marystown Shipyard a1rnost gone, the St. John 1 s Dockyard almost gone. What about Grand FaLls. when the Minister of Forestry a.nd Agriculture and the Premier refused to answer questions one day and scurried into the House the next day with a Ministerial Statement to announce another 500 jobs gone in the Central No. 50 R21.

Newfoundland area. A great record for this Government, Mr. Speaker. And this morning my colleague, the Member For Humber Valley (Mr. Woodford), asked the Minister of Forestry and Agriculture a question. Did they have any discussions with Kruger regarding the close down of the mill? And do you know what happened? I do not know if anybody else noticed it, the Minister refused to answer the question. I wonder why, Mr . Speaker. I wonder why the Minister refused to answer that question. MR. FUREY : A Minister answered the question (inaudible). MR. TOBIN: A Minister did not answer the que s t ion .

L i k e mo s t que s t ions we have asked, there has never been an answer. He answered the question and said, I cannot discuss what we talked about. He said, we talk about. a lot of things when we get together as a group. He did not answer the question, if they discussed any closedowns as it .relates to that operation in Corner Brpok. He did not. MR. WALSH: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ·rh·e han. ----tj:1e Member for Mount Scio - Bell Island. MR. WALSH: It is shameful for a Member to stand in this House and say that a Minister did not answer.

He may not have received the answer he wanted, but the Minister in question answered. I have asked Santa Claus for a lot of things and I have not gotten them, but L22 DecembE!r 8. 1989 Vol XLI .. that does not mean he did not answer me. You were given your answer, but just not the answer you wanted. I think you should be satisfied with that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR. TOBIN: He is wasting time,. Mr. Speaker . MR. WALSH: I arn notfinished yet . When the Minister sits in his seat and does not stand. thE!n you have not received an answer.

So you may not have receiVt;!d the anst).Jer you wanted, but you did get an answer. Do not mislead Hansar·d or the House. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of thE! Opposi.tion. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. First of all, of course, there is no point of orde1~. AJ.l the han. gentleman is doing - AN HON. MEMBER : sit ct ow-n·~---boyT MR. RIDEOUT : All the hon. genth~ITii.Hl is doing is trying to waste the time of the Member who is speaking, and that, I suspect, comes from an event that happened in l:he House ..earLier this week.

It is just sour grapes on the part of the hon. gent.lt:~rnan on the other side. Now, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman from Burin - Placentia West is making a good spE!ech. If Government Members do not like No . 50 R22 •'

what he is saying, they can retire to their common room - it is early in the morning ·- and have a coffee. Or the hon. gentleman can go to the common room and write Santa Claus, and see if Santa Claus will deliver him a Cabinet post, which is the only thing on the hon. gentleman•s mind these days. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. I recognize the han. the Member for Burin ~ Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman • s conduct when he was a child was anything like it is in this House, it is no wonder Santa Claus brought him nothing. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

TOBIN: Now, Mr. attempting of thought work. Speaker, they are to interrupt my train and it is not qoing to As I was saying, the ones gone are the Marystown Shipyard, the St. John•s Dockyard, National Sea in St. John•s, Grand Falls - AN HON. MEMBER: Kruger . MR. TOBIN: ·-·--··- ··-·········-Kruger -. no, theine is no word on Kruger yet. MR. WARREN: Long Harbour . MR. TOBIN: Long Harbour. that. AN HON . MEMBER: We talked about L23 December 8, 1989 Vol X L.I Baie Verte Mines . M~-~~.1.!'.::!: The Minister said the other day there is a shut··-down there ri•Jht now, as I understand frorn my colleague and Leader.

What else? MS VERGE: The Public Service purge . MR. TOBIN: The Public Service purge, ther·e is no doubt about that. Now, Mr. Speaker, what else? I would suspect, Mr. Speaker, that they are going to try to wait until this House~ is closed bE!fore they do two things. I lAJould suspect they are going to wait until this House is closed bE!fOlnE! FPI and the Minister and the Premier have the courage to announce that at lc:~ast three and probably four communitie~ are destined to go. At. lc::~ast thrE!e, and probably four' do not kid yourself. AN HON. MEMBER: Can you name them? MR.

TOBIN: Ye.s, I --·can, but I 1Aii.l1 not.. We named St. John 1 s the:~ other· day and the Premier confirmed it yesterday. We L• .. Ji.ll narn~;! the:' rest, too, in time. Because we know, and we know the Minister has had discussions as it relates to which plants are going. We know that, Min. Speaker. But I can tr:d .1 you one thing, lAJhen they go, ther"~ are communities that cannot survive. They are one-industry communities that arE! going, and some of them are going to be ·difficult l:o get to, very difficult. There are more Newfoundlanders who have left to seek work on the mainland in seven months, Mr.

No. 50 R23

Speaker , since they became the Government than left in SE!Ven years, . I remember the Premier of this Province going throughout Newfoundland and Labrador during the election campaign saying he t.uas going to bring them home. I would like to ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker. how many has he brought horne? MR. FUREY: How many did Peckford bring home? MR. TOBIN: we bro.ught you back from st. Xavier. They elected Brian Tobin to hire you, give you a job that took you to Ottawa and then the people of St. Barbe brought you back . Mr.

Speaker, Peckford called an election, the gentleman came back and got elect .ed, so Peckford brought you home. Now, Mr. Speaker, there is one example. He asked the question, and he is the example. What else does he want to know? MR. PARSONS : The Premier made a mistake (in~udible). MR. TOBIN : Well, whether it was a mistake or not . the people of St. Barbe, through the Premier calling the election, brought the han . gentleman home, and he as ked for an example. Mr. Speaker, that is their attitude. They do not know the difference. There are a lot of people he brought home, M1n. Speaker.

He brought home 600 to the Marystown Shipyard whom you have let go since you became Minister. That is what he has done, Mr. Speaker. There were people working in Long Harbour whE!n Peckford was Premier, there were people working in the St. John's Dockyard, many more L24 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI .. . . than are there now. There were people working at the Natsea plant when he t.uas Premier. There WE!re people working in several communities on the South Coast when he was Premier.

When he was Premier, Argent.ia t.uas going to develop, and now your colleague, the Minister of Energy, has taken that from the Argentia people and moved it to Trinity Bay . No wonder I get caJ.ls every day asking me to be gU10!s·t speakE!r at various functions in his district. There is a soft spot in my heart for the. han. gE!n tlE!man, Mr. Speaker. and I would find it rather difficult to go out and intrude in his District. The editorial says, 'We have been watching Mr . Wells carefully. There is my-way or no-way. 1 How true, Mr. Speaker. Dr.

HouSE! and his Commission have been elected by nobody to run the e~onorny of Newfoundland. Mr. Wells and his Government have been eJe cted . It is a denial of the democratic principles to pass over so much power to a group of unelected persons and to attE!rnpt to remove them from the continuous influence of the scrutiny of He•r Maj E!S ty 1 s Government. 1 How true, Mr. Speaker. · Everybody in Newfoundland is saying it . Somebody wrote it. Mr. Speaker, minutes left. have leave. I only have tlAJO I am sure I will We can go on, Mr. Sp eaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! By leave! MR .

TOBIN : Yes, there are a lot. of l:h:ings I would J.ike to touch on as it relates to rural development associations, as it . reJ.atE!S to the No. 50 R24-

way of life in rural Newfoundland, as it relates to the amalgamation issue, where the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, on the instruction of the Premier there is a hidden agenda, Mr. Speaker, to resettle rural Newfoundland. Do you know who I believe is one of the leading people in trying to resettle rural Newfoundland? The Member for Exploits. He is another one of these Members from rural Newfoundland who have spent several years in city life and no~ he wants ·to go b a c k and reset t 1 e rural Newfoundland. But the people in his constituency are not going to take too lightly to that.

What we have gotten through this Economic Recovery Team, Mr. Speaker, is the Minister of Development, whom we all thought was going to be overworked, and we said lAlhat a burden he had placed on him, and now we I< now the Minister does not have anything to do,· because Dr. House is going to look after runnin~ his Department. I would suggest the Pr'emier should give some of the responsibilities of the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to the Minister of Development. Mr. Speaker, we have a Minister of Fisheries who has a great record. He has been in federal politics and did a good job.

Way back he was in provincial poliU.cs and municipal politics, a veteran member, a provincial member, sat in Opposition, and the tragedy .is that he is going to be the Minister of F~sheries who is going to preside over the destruction of rural Newfoundland. That is what is going to happen. Mr. Speaker. It is a sad ending for a man lAJho has devoted so much of his life to public life. But he is going to L25 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI be the ·Minister of Fisheries who is going to pres:ide over the destruction of several fishing communities. thrl':!C::' and probably four on the South Coast, and the St.

John 1 s plant, which includes the Southside. It is unfortunatE! ·that that is going to happen. I believe the only reason why this is happening is because of his Leader, because of the Premier. The Premier of this Province has absolutely no commitment whatsoever to ·the people of rur·al Newfoundland, he never had any commitment to rural Newfoundland. As a matter of fact, he had n6 commitment to Corner Brook. Because if you remember back whE!n Bowaters were pulling out, who was their lawyer? Why did the people leave? AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) . MR. TOBIN: You can make all the speeches like.

You wil.l never g<:d~ Cabinet, C' ,)lr. You can bring Premier all the report cards like on ·the rest of the boys, still not get in Cabinet. MR. SPEAKER: . you in l:he you and The hon. Member 1 s time has elapsed . MR. TOBIN: Now, Mr. Speaker. l:he Mc::~rnber for St. John 1 s South, the man tAJho has sat idly by and not asked one question in this Legislature regarding t.he plant ·.in his District, not a question, Min. Speaker, has he asked in this House, voted against an all--plants-open pol'.icy. Shame on the Member, Mr. Speaker. MR. PENNEY : Mr. Spc::~aker. MR. SPEAKER: No. 50 R2S

Before I recognize the han. the Member fo1" Lewis porte, I would like to welcome to the House, on behalf of hon. Members, forty-three Level II democracy students from St. George 1 s High School, in New Harbour, students from that great District of Bellevue and Trinity - Bay de Verde, accompanied by their teachers, Mr. George .Brown and Mr. Harold Smith. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the Member for Lewisporte . MR. PENNEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I am pleased to rise in this han. House to speak on Bill No. 40, 11

An Act Respecting The Economic Recovery Cornmission. 11 ~\lOW, Mr. Speaker, I will no:t take the full time that I am allowed just for the sake of making noise. I will make a few comments, address some points that I think need to be addressed . I think there are a number of us here in the Legislature that have had our full of people who just stand for the sake of speaking. We hE!ard one hon. gentleman speak for about four or five hours earlier and still said nothing. AN HON. MEMBER : That is right. MR. PENNEY: Mr. Speaker, I checked with WebstE•r 1 s tci se ·e what Webster has to say about economy and recovery.

Webster says 1 economy is a system of producing and distributing the natural needs of society. 1 And 1 recovery a returning to normal health or 1.26 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI prosperity. 1 I think w~:! all recognizE:~ that we do neE·d to return to normal health and prosperity in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

PENNEY: The second dE!fini tion that hE! gives for recovery is 1 a r~; ~turn to financial well being after a depression. 1 Well if you were::~ to compare the economy of Newfoundland to~.lil:h the rest. of thE• country I am SUI"E! you IAJou1d lvwe to admit that we have bE· Ii.~ n in a depression for the last seVE!ntE•en years. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PENNEY : The third definition is 1 the regaining of one 1 s ba1anCE! Ol" coni:J"ol after, for example, a stumble or a mistake . 1 Now, Mr. Speaker, it is quite normal to stumble. Our nE!lAI GoVE!l"lliTIE!nt to~.d11 do that.

But what you do when you stumble, you pick yourSE !1f up and you learn from your mistakes. But what we have seen for the las t seventeen · years is that l:.he Government has stumbJ.ed ·, pickE!d themselves up only to s l:.urnble again, and they have not even learned that there is a problem. I rE!peat that again 1 Hw regcd.ntng of one 1 s balance or control after, for exampl e, the stumble or a mistake . 1 The rnistake IAJas corrected, Mr. Speaker, on Apri1 20. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PENNEY: Now, Mr. begin to No . SO Speaker, correct before we can the probl em we R26

must first of all accept that the problem exists. And we on this side of the House have accepted that fact. We have accepted the reality that we have a problem. We are attempting to correct it. Nou.1 to prove to all han. Members here that we do. in fact. have a problem I would like to quote some statistics from Stats Canada. Statistics Canada figures show that Neu.1foundl.and has the highest rate of unemployment in all of Canada. And I have checked the figures back to 1961. MS VERGE: Who was in power then? MR. PENNEY: .I would suggest maybe the han.

Member would like to hear me quote the figures first before she makes any comment. In 1961, the UIC benefits to Atlantic Cahada averaged $120 per capita. The UI benefits .to .Newfoundland were .$14-0 per capita. That was just 16 2/3 per cents higher. Now we talk about UIC benefits because we only pay UIC benefits if we have unemployment. There was a very, very lit~le change from 1961 to 1971. That is ten years. We maintained th~t 16 per cent difference. In 1972. maybe the Member would like to ask who tJJas in power on the next figurE!S I arn going to give? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

PENNEY: In 1972 the figurE! from Atlantic Canada was $250 per capita, and the figure for Newfoundland was $325 per capita. Mr. Speaker. that is over 30 per cent higher than Atlantic Canada averages. In 1981 the figure for Atlantic L27 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI Canada was $380 per capita. The figure for Newfoundland was $520 per capita. That is 37 per cent higher, Mr. Speaker. And I wonder what party was in power then? MS VERGE : What about the Gross Product per capita? MR. PENNEY: Dorn1:!stic In 1987, Mr. SpeakE!r, the figure of UIC benE!fi ts paid to Atlantic Canada averag~d $580 per capita.

In Newfoundland it was $850 per capita. That is 4-6 per cen·t higher than Atlantic Canada. Let us go back to 1961 again for a minute. The earned incomE! in Atlantic Canada in 1961 averaged $2800. The earned inc orne in Newfoundland averaged $2500, a difference of only 11 per cent. In 1981 the earned incomE! in Atlantic Canada was $6 7 50 and in Newfoundland it was $5750 which is a 15 per cent difference. In 1987, Mr.Speaker, the earned income for Atlantic Canada was $7750 and for Newfoundland it tAJas $6300 for a difference ·of 19 per cent. I would remind all hon.

Members that i·t. tAJas not the Liberal GovernmE!nt who was in power then. Mr. SpeakE!r, I would ask that you remember this is just for Newfoundland, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Blnunswick and it must be r.:1mr:1mbE!red that Atlantic Canada has always been 56 to 70 per· cent of the earned inc orne for Canada. The best WE' have eVE!r done in all. of Atlantic Canada is 65 to 70 per cent of the national figures. There u.Jas an i nteres ti ng chart produced by Stats Canada for· 1987 which lAJas called the populat.ion by level of disparity. I would likE! to quote some figures from that one. This is 1987.

Ontario has ~> per cent moderate disparity. No. SO R27

Quebec had 10 per cent deep disparity and 30 per cent moderate disparity. Western Canada had 10 per cent deep disparity and 20 per cent moderate disparity. This is the one I would like you to pay attention to. Newfoundland 57 per cent deep disparity and 26 per cent moderate disparity. Now, Mr. Spe!aker, there is no doubt we have a problem. There is no doubt from all of those figures that nothing is being improved. We need recovery. You do not have to be a statistician or an actuary to see that the figures ar~ travelling in the wrong direction.

For the last fifteen or twenty years we have seen the Government come up with make-work programs. Basically what they have done is tell our citizens, go out and dig a hole and we will pay you, and tomorrow we will pay someone else to fill it in. I have had constituents in my District call me and .say, I am sick and tired of cutting alders under the snow. That is what I have · had to do. In the make-work projects I get, you are hired in the winter to cut alders under the snow. Mr. Speaker, what we have done, or what the Gov~rnment of the day has done, is created an unemployment mentality in this ProvinCE!.

They have creab?.d a 10 .. -4-2 syndrome, and I arn sure everybody is familiar with that. The problem is now where it has gotten to the point - and I do not care how many han. Members are not prepared to admit it, but it has gotten to the point, in this Province, that if a person needs four stamps and you offer them five · weeks work you insult them. That is the reality of it. We have created an unemployment mentality. The Private Sector Program that L28 December 8, 1989 VoJ. XLI they boast about, that. was nothing more or less than a subsidy fol" the employers. Mr.

Speaker, as a small businessman myself working in Central Newfoundland for a . number of years, I have seen how the Private Sector Program worked. I have seen how the small businessman, and the medium sized businesses in my area, took advantage of these people. Now, they are calling me, how come now I have to pay the Full rates to get people to work for me? For the last Few yr.:1ars I could have them come in and Government would pay part of the wage. I say i.t is about time that the Government stopped doing that. Now, we have brought in the Economic Recovery Commission. Ml".

Speaker, that is the grE!at:est Government initiative since Confederation. Its mandab~ is to foster generations of long-term employment and economic development.

I would like to quote, if ·I may, fr·om a s ta b:~rne nt that Premier WeJ.ls gave in June of this year. lie said we ITlus t. make economic recovery a ·top priority in order t:o provide our people, particularJ.y our younger members of he work force with an opportunity to obtain good paying jobs and at the same time cr\~ate wealth for the ProvinCE!, so that the Government will havt~ revenues adequate to provide the social programs that our people so desperately need. The Government is therefore committed to making economic recovery a first priority. Mr.

Speake!", the Economic Recovei"Y Commission has a six to ten y~=!ar mandate. That is a long--term mandate. It is not going to happen overnight, we acknowledge that. The probh1ms doid not occur overnight, either . They have a timetable, broken into three No. 50 R28

parts, consultative November, to develop from November to March, and to up to alternatives February or establish to June. initiatives from March And, Mr. Speaker, the Recovery Commission is target. Economic right on The long-term mandate of the Commission is to provide the values of an enterprise culture and self-reliance throughout the Province. Personally, I am impressed with the quality of the members the Premier has appointed to that Commission, particularly Dr. House. I must say, I am amused by some of the comments coming from the other side of the House when they speak so negatively of Dr.

House 1 s abilities. It is amusing when you consider that not too long ago, that same Administration appointed the same han. gentleman to another commission. They thought he had all the qualifications needed then. I do not knouJ why they would have thought the qualifications would have disappeared simply because he went to work for our Government. Since September, Mr. Speaker, the Commission has met with ~ver seventy groups and organizations, businesses, area development groups from St. John 1 s to Wabush. Mr. Speaker, it is not just St. John 1 s, not just Corner Brook and Mount Pearl, but from St.

John 1 s to Wabush. I would like to remind every Member in this House that the little community of Campbellton in my District is just as important as Mount Pear·l, and our Government recognizes that. Little Burnt Bay, for example, that has been ignored for seventeen years, all it wanted was a few wells so they could get 1..29 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI good, clean, sanitary water; ignored for years. Three months election, we gave ~hem to provide the wells. drinking seventeE!n after the the funds Our Government is committed to decentralization of services. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to tell you about a problem with servicE!S in my area. There is a motor registration office in Lewisporte that services the entire area with one employee. That e~ployee has the authority to takE:~ people out for road tests . That is it. He cannot give th•:Hn a licence, cannot give them a transfer permit, cannot give them beginners 1 permits.

So, an individual from Stoneville, for example, who lAJants to do a road test, rnu.st driv~;:~ to Grand Falls to pick up thE! permit or the receipt, go back to Lewisporte for the road test then back to Grand Falls to pick up the licence and then, back to Stoneville. By the timE! he gets back horrfe, he has travelled 300 kilometers . Now, Mr. Speaker, those are the kinds of services we have had to contend with in my District for the last few years.

I am very pleased to announce that since that situation has been brought to the attention of the Minister, it has been looked at, and I feel assured the situation will be corrected. That is the change in mentality with this Government, Mr. Speaker. It was not too many days ago that a non-confidence motion was brought to this legislature. To think that the•y wou1d makE! a motion of non-confidence in our new GovernrnE!nt! Mr. SpeakE!r, Newfoundlanders, on April 20, voted to show that their non-confidence was with the previous Administration, and they No. 50 1~29

placed their confidence in us . That is why we are on this side of the House now. Mr. Speaker. thanks to the initiative of our Government and the Premier. and the formation of the Economic Recovery Commission, small and medium-sized businesses are now going to get the profile they deserve. Small and medium-sized businesses have always been the backbone of the economy in this Province. I would like to remind all hon. Members that if you had twenty convenience stores located on twenty stree£ corners and each one of them employed ten people. that is the equivalent of one large business that employed 200 .

Now, make no mistake about that. they have the same employment. they provide the sarne employment. they generate the same secondary employment. and they provide the same amount of taxes to Government. and in a lot of cases morE!. because they are not owned by some parent company on the main land where the taxes are sent home . And that is now being addressed properly by our Government. Tourism, Mr. ·Speaker. the totally untapped potential of tourism in this Province is about to be realized for the first time. I was very impressed in September when the hon.

Minister of Development came to Lewisporte along with six or eight other of his Cabinet colleagues, and he addressed a group in Lewisporte, the Chamber of Commerce, the Lewisporte area development association, town council. They we1~e also very impressed with the interest and the concern shown by the Minister . He recognized the potential, and he made a commitment that the development of Lewisporte as a tou rist site would L30 December 8, 1989 Uol XLI be given a priority within this · Government .

Now, the group that made thE• presentation to him, had been making the same presentation to the previous Administration for 14 years. For 14 years they have been making the same presen -tation. and every tirne the presentation was made, they got their promises. They 11aVE! 14- YE!ars of promises. I think at that time we werE! in power for Four months. We did not get promises Fr -om the Minister, we got .cornrnitrnE•nts. And that is the difference, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR.

PENNEY: This is the first time that the people out in that area that had this concern were subj ectE!d to honesty from Government. Education, Mr. Speaker. I am delighted today to ~H:~ar the hon. Minister say that we have a triple E educationaJ. policy. That is fantastic. I do not know if there was even one E on the educat.tona1 policy from the previous Administration. now we have three of them. Mr. Speaker. if you campaign that we carnE! too many months ago. AN HON. MEMBER : I remember :i"twell . MR. PENNEY: I am sure we all do. came up, topic came University for Newfoundland.

The rememb er through the not Conversation up about a CE!ntral P. C. party cannot put a Centr-al. said, 'No way. We University in Newfoundland . There is no tJJay we No. 50 R30

can justify the expenditures. • The Liberal Party, which is now the Liberal Government. I might remind the hon. gentleman, said, 1 Not only can we, but we will. • SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PENNEY: I would like to remind everybody here that CenLral Newfoundland, and Western Newfoundland is just as important as the Avalon Peninsula. I would also like to remind all hon. gentlemen that if you are talking about distance for travel, the distance from St. John•s to Lewisporte is exactly thE! same distance as from LetAJisporte to St. John • s. It does not increase because you go the opposite direction. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to extend an invitation to every hon. Member in this House to attend the official opening of the University when it opens in Lewisporte sometime down the road. AN HON. MEMBER: Is that a promise or a commitment? MR. PENNEY: That is an invitation . Mr. Speaker, I made a few notes and I have them sorted out. Under the topic of Health, I would likE! to give you a Few figures. Since the election. Mr. Speaker. our Government has allocated almost $10 mi11ion for upgrading and repairs of the Health Centers and Community clinics. The exact figure is $9,784.000.

Also, we have allocated almost $8 million to increase the staff of the Central Newfoundland Hospital to expand the catscanning services, and to have 33 new nursing positions, and phase in opening of L3J. December 8, 1989 Vo1 XLI 35 unused beds aL the Burin Hospital. The Burin Peninsula Health Care Center I believe it is called. That is our cormni tment to health, Mr. Speaker, that is tha commitment from our Government. This is the Economic RE!covery Team because these a1ne thr:1 concEH'ns that we have had to liVE! with for· the last few years.

These concerns are being addressed by our Government and they are betng addressed through the Economic Recovery Commission. The fishery, Mr. Speaker, evr:1ry single Member who has ever spokE•n to this Bill that I have heard, talks about the problems in the fishery. Sure, we have problems in the fishery. That is one of the reasons that we introduced the Economic Recovery Commission. We all recognize that there is a crisis in the fishery.

We blame the scientists For giving us inaccurate figures with the fish population and the scientists are going to have to assume their responsibility and th•?.ir sha1ne of the b1arne. We blarne the Federal Government for cutting down on the TACs for Eastern Canada lAJhilE! at the same time, incr.:1asing l:he total allowable ~atch to the foreigners. They deserve the blc1me and they are going to have to shoulder their responsibility and their share of the bJ.arne. But I remind you that there is enough blame to go around to everybody. Yes, thE! Plnovincial GOVE!InnmE!nt has to assume its share of t:hE! blarne.

Yes, the fishermen have to assumE! their share of the blame as weJ.l. There must be a change in mentality within the Fishery in this Province. There must be a total change of mentality. We have to start processing our under utilized species of fish. No. SO R3 1

It tAJas only a few years ago, Mr. SpE!aker, and the han. Member for Fogo would probably attest to this, and anybody else who came from a fishing community, if it wa.s not a codfish, caplin, salmon, or a herring it was not considered to be a fish. That is most certainly true, and everything else was disguarded. So we have to start using the under utilized species. And we have to start increasing our secondary processing and our value added processing. Now, Mr . Speaker, more than anything we have to stop selling our raw resource to somebody else so that they can cook it, and sell it back to us.

Those days are gone and we have to stop doing it . These are the kind of changes that must be brought about in the fishery. These are the kinds of things that the Economic Recovery Commission will be addressing. Mr . Speaker, . another example of this kind of abuse within the fishery. We have watched, and I am not talking about within the last six months I am talking about in the last few years, herring being salted round and put in barrels and sold to the Russians. The barrels alone cost almost $20 and the finished product is being sold for less than $30.

On top of that we sell our raw resource over-the-side to the Russians. Mr. Speaker, that is obscene. We can no longer afford to do that. When I was a teenager, I worked for a fish plant in Lewisporte and I got paid 50 cents an hour along with most of my buddies from my class, to pick out male caplin . The fish plan processed all the male caplin that we could handle. The female caplin went over the wharf and drifted out to sea. Now L32 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI what happens when we get a market for female caplin, we destroy al1 the male caplin . We throw them out to sea . Mr.

Speaker, when you considE!r that we are doing this in a starving world I repeat that is obscene and it has to stop. My information suggests to me t~hat the highest productivity that any fish plant in Newfoundland has ever gotten out of our codfish is 34- per cent. My inFormation al.so tells me there arr:~ othE!r pal"ts of the world where if you do not get 50 per cent out of your codfish you lose the license to proCE!SS it the next 'year. AN HON. MEMBER: That is how you are trying to do it. Is it not? MR. PENNEY: The han . Member knotAJS the difference . I would ask, Ml".

SpE!akel", alJ. ·the people hE:~re who are involved IAii.th any area where there is a fish plant, what do we do with th~ sound bonE!S from our codfish? w~~ throw them overboard. Wha l:. do we do with the head? We throw th ern overboard. What do WE! do with l:.he tongues ahd thE! cheeks? Now the hon. Member For Fogo, if he has ever visited the plant on Fogo Island will know that the only cod tongues that are ever cut out of the fish down there in that plant, is if there are five or six school kids come down there and cut l:hem out and pu t thern in a l.i.ttle patl other than that they go overboard. AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. PENNEY: Yes, I guess they are . No. 50 Are tAJe R32

talking about the same plant, I wonder? we do with the liver, Mr. What do Speaker? that came kept. Years ago all the liver out of our codfish was MS DU.[f.: Cod liver oil . MR. PENNEY : Yes, and what liver now? We and we feed the MR. PARSONS: ·Ti·-n-a: u d i b 1·e;-) . MR. PENNEY: do we do tAli th the throw it overboard gulls. And what do we do with the skin, Mr. Speaker? Finally we .are about to address that to at least some extent, we are going to see that there is a plant gets opened up somewhere in the Bellevue District to process the cod skin into a form of leather. And what do we do with the roe sacks, Mr.

Speaker, that most Newfoundlanders call britchins. What do we do with them? We throw tht~m overboard. It is about time we stopped looking at quantity, if we do not have the quantity there and we know that the TACs are down, we know the fish stocks are down, if we do not have the quantity we have to start looking at quality, Mr. Speaker. Like I · said there is enD"ugh blame to go around, and everybody must shoulder his share of it. I·t is fine to blame it on the Feds, it is fine to blame it on the scientists.

But if we want to see the fishery become a viable industry in this Province again, we must all assume our share of the rr:~sponsibility and we must do something to changt::! it. That is L.33 December 8, 1989 VoJ. X L.I the appr 'oach that has been given to this situation by thE! han. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Carter). I am very pleased with that. I reaJ.ly am. This is probably the most honest approach to ·the fisheries that. we have had in this Province for fifteen years. Mr.

Speaker, we ourselves and I arn all heard the have prided sure tAlE! have NE!Wf ou ndland fisher·men say at one time or another that we carne the · greatest fishing earth, and they are about Canada they about Newfoundland fishing nation. from onE! of na·t.ions on not. talking are ti'l1king as a gt~eat Mr. Speaker, we cannot eVE!n ge!t a jigger without going to Norway. If we want a cod ne!t we- have to bring it in from Japan. It is about time we started being honest with each other.

It is about time we accepted the reality of it and these are the concerns that have to be addressed and they have to be addressed by our Government and fortunately we have an Economic Recovery Commission put in place to address those situations, and it is just not that, Mr. SpE!akE!r. This total AdrninistraU.on has now got a brand netAJ mental i l:y to governing and the Economic Recovery Commission will help return our economy back t.o what Mr. Webster calls normal health. And I am very pleased to be a part of this new Government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! M ~.....:... ....

LIL~§_Q,N._§ : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the M..:~mber for St. John • s No. 50 R33

East Extern. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PARSONS : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . It is certainly a pleasure for me to rise in my place today and outline what I feel are important issues as it pertains to the Economic Recovery Commission. There has been so much negativity addressed here today as to what the prE!Vious Gover-nment did, I would like to impart to the students that when a test was given right across Canada, the results of that test. It was done by Southham, and it involved all the major cities in Canada .

There are a couple of sentences here:1, the biggest surprise though was that Newfoundland, a province · not noted for affluence, topped the list. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! MR. PARSONS: Now let me give you the statistics. Everything is negative over there. The Pes were shocking. They should have been ousted seventeen years ago. God forbid. It is so good that they stayed in there, because in education alone thE! values of education, the conditions that education is all about, what happened over the seventeen years. Let !TIE! tell you how affluent Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have become .

There were 2, 700 pupils questioned. Out of that CTV test presented twenty basic questions, history, current affairs and geography. The final marks from West to East were, Victoria 55. 1 per cent, Calgar .y L34 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI 68 . 7 per cent, Edmonton 60 . 5 per cent, Regina 53.4 per cent, Montreal 48. 8 per cent. St. Johnn's, Newfoundland, which includes all the areas really. It was taken from the general area, · 70.3 per cent. Now, under a PC Government these are the things that happened. AN HON . MEMBER : Were you a P.C. Member then? MR. PARSONS : No, I was not, but I lJJas involved in education.

I spent fourteen years as a member of the R.C. school board for St. John's. AN_ HON. ME~BER: The Member for Exploits (Mr. Grimes) and the Conception Bay South (inaudible) . MR. PA RSQJ.IS: Member for {Ms CotJJan) Mr. Speaker, before I get in to the Economic Recovery Commission I have to make a couple of tn~:wtar'ks to my good friend , the han. l:he Mernber for Harbour Grace (Mt". Crane). When he spoke the ot .her day about the economics of · our Province, and certainly h~ :! did give a good speech, but he mentioned that the Member for St. John's East Extern (Mr. Parson

s) was a participant, or a moonlighter, as it pertains to the fishery . AN _J:! ON _~ M EJ~:'!!t.~ .~ : A moonshin er. MR . PARSONS: I am not a part-time fisherman. I was at one time and rE!a1 proud of it. fhat is the right of e v l'.~ry Newfoundlander as I see it. AN HON. MEMBER : When you were walking the beat . No. 50 IB4

MR. PARSONS : When I was walking the beat with my han. friend there from Placentia I was a moonlighter, but in 1974 I gave it up. He also said I was a wealthy man. Now, that he said in a facetious sort of way . I think he was trying, perhaps, to insult me, but I do not mind·. He did give a good speech and he did address some of the issues. Mr. Speaker, when the Premier announced this Economic Recovery Commission I had an awesome fear. I had a feeling of, oh my goodness, not another one. AN ' HON. MEMBER: (inaudible). MR. PARSONS: Oh, no, there are Commissions which are for real .

The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs did. the commission that I had an involvement in and that was just an issue where two towns disagreed over who owned this piece of land, or that piece of land. That was good. The Member of the Government of that day could not decide. He had a lo·t of friends out there trying to impose their opinions. He did a real fine job as commissioner. Those commissions dci not excite me because I think those are necessary, but when you speak about a co mmi s s ion that has to do with the economics of a province, run the county, then you are speaking about oranges and apples.

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the han. gentleman, he is only a little boy. All he understands is what he has heard. He does not really have any basics for what he speaks of . Let me say to the young man over there. What would you call him? Let me say to him L3S Decr:~mber 8, 1989 Vol XLI that in 1934 - AN HON. MEMBER: Wh.at do you r-emember about 1934? MR. PARSONS: Oh, my son, a lot more than you do because , like I told you, what you hear _you have read about or someone told you. I do not know very much about 1934 but I do remember some of the events between that year and 194-9. · AN HON.

MEMBER: You must have been twenty years old then. MR . PARSONS : No, I was not twenty years old but I was close to it. In 194 -9 I wp.s nineteen. There is no seCl' 'et about my age, it is immaterial, but we went through an era of Commission of Government. Some of those young lads over there do not even know what it is all about, do not know - only what you hear. Let me tE!ll you something, let me say 'to you, Mr. Speaker, that Commission of Government was an era that we want to forget about . . That is why, when this Commi .ssion was appointed, I said, 'My goodness!

Not another commission to deal with the economics of our Province! 1 When a ·cornmisston J.ike this commission was established, it was answerable to no one except the Premier . Wh en the Commission of 1934 was established, it wa s responsible to no one but the Prime Minister in England. That is the difference. Do you know · what happened? Do you know how much the people suffered in Newfoundland and Labrador From 1930 to 1949? Just to relate one instance, I had an old friend, and oftentimes I sat on the grass and listen ed to all .his old anecdotes, s tortes and No. SO InS

whatever. He told me, 1 You cannot remember the bad years. You cannot remember what we went through under Commission of Government. 1 He said, 1 When I had to walk to St. John 1 s to try to get a note to get some flour, -the basic necessities, and then would walk home; and they would send the policeman of the day down to look into the barrel to see if there was any flour in it. 1 Those were days that I do not want to think about, but they were For real. Newfoundlanders and Labradorians went through them under Commission of Government. And in 1949, six cents a day was the rule.

That was the order of the day, six ·cents per · day. This was the Commission of Government that ended up with $40 million in the coffers. When we joined Confederation in 1949, there was $40 miJ.lion of savings there, after what our people went through. We have today, another Commission who are telling us they are going right across the Province. They arE! going to save monE!Y. On the backs of whom? They are going to save money. Let me read a few of the things that have happened since this Government took over. AN HON. MEMBER : Oh, oh! MR. PARSONS : Just a moment, now. Give me a chance .

Let me tell you how many people have lost their jobs since this Government took over. Everything is negative with the previous Government. Marystown, 500 workers . AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . L36 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI MR. PARSONS : I did mention it to the -previous Speaker. I told hirn I had papE!Ins on the chair and I am not going to soil it. The papers are about one-half inc h t hi c.k a n d putt i n g my foot on the chair makes me a little more at ease. I am positive that His Honour· sees nothing wrong tJJi th that. I have it covered with paper.

I also tell His Honour that I wiJ.l being in something else to put on that chair. My shoes are clean, no spikes in them, and I am sure I will not hurt the chair. MR . SPEAKER: I just want to inform the hon. Member, of c.ourse, that it. is no·t parliamentarily acceptable to rest your feet on a chair or' any o'ther object while you are speaking. MR . PARSONS: Do you know, Mr. Speaker, from whom I learned that? AN HON. MEMBER: YoU cannot question the Speaker. MR . PARSONS : I am not questioning t.he Speaker . I will take my foot off the chair.

The first person I saw do it was a great Newfoundlander, one of the finest, one of the men who will go down in history, Br".ian PeckFor·d. Having said that, I lAlill lnE!move my foot from the chair. Look, OlJE.~r in the doorway, thE! hon. the Member for Gander, the rnan lAJho wanted to abolish the school tax.· AN HON. MEMBER : Cabinet would not let him . MR. PARSONS : Cabinet wouJ.d not let him. Thank God for that! Some sensible people in Cabinet., like the Minister of Fisheries , the No. 50 R36

I arn not surE! about the Minister of Transportation. I think Transportation may have· wanted it abolished, because he wants to abolish everything, so he would not want to change his train of thought. But there are some good Cabinet Ministers over there. The Minister of Fisheries, he is a Conservative. We all know that. MR. WINSOR: -r··· ···almost- voted for him in 1979, you knotJJ. MR. PARSONS: You voted for him? MR. WINSOR: Almost. Close to it. Second choice, he was going to be. He had a meeting in my house, he did. MR. PARSONS: In 1979? MR. WINSOR: In 1979. MR. PARSONS: I ask the hon.

Minister questions during Question Period and his answers are good, s.irnilar to if he tJJas still on the Tory side. There is no doubt at all about that. But, Mr. Speaker, let me go on to the loss of jobs. The Newfoundland dockyard - 300 jobs gone . Now I was dotJ.m on that dock during the P. C. Government • s rule, when we brought in all kinds of monies to the dock. Look, everyone is b~coming negative totJJards the Province. Do you knot~o.l that I asked a question this morning to the Minister of Education. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. PARSONS: L37 DecembE!r 8, 1989. Vol XLI You do not agree with it? MR.

FLIGHT: (Inaudible) over here. MR. PARSONS: Well, we all cannot be like the hon. Minister, can we? I mentioned to the Minister of Education this morning about the School Tax Authori·ty. fhert~ is so much confusion out there, the Government has caus~~d so much negativity, that collections are down a great amount. AN HON. MEMBER: Why? M~-· ... PARSO~~: Because they do not know. They do not know if the school tax is going to bE! abolisi·H~!d, they do not know if there ~s something new going to be brought in. No one~! knows. You cannot do any thing on your own, you have to tJ.Iait for Dr. House. MR.

WINSOR: On payroll deductions the employment Factor is so lot~o.J ther'E! ".is no rnoney being takc::~n ·out because the unemployment rate (inaudible) so much. MR. PARSONS: Yes, l:he other restraint on l:.he school boards is ·the unernployrnent picture is rising so Fast that the deductions are not corning out Frorn pay r o 11 s . Pay. r o 11 d I? d u c ti on s are going tJ.Iay clown, and this is t~o.lh.Y. Let me say this to you. We tJJould havE~ our heads in lhe sand today if we did not know there lAias going ­ to be a great nurnbE•ln of jobs, :in excess of 300 jobs, going to be lost at National Sea.

When the statement comes out today, it will be perhaps one of the rnost devastating . statements l:.hat St. No. 50 R3'7

John 1 s has had for the greatest number of years, the St. John 1 s area in general. MR. KELLAND : Tory mismanagement caused all this? Everything is (inaudible). MR. PARSONS: Tory mismanagement? The Minister of Environment has said, 1 caused by the Tories. 1 No, my friend. The Minister of Fisheries wtll agree . The decline, the demise of the fishery started in 1972. Now, if you want me to continue and explain to you what happened in 1972, I IAlill. Those was the Trudeau years. That was when tJ.Je had our 200 mile limit.

It was done just before an election to win the election for Members around t.his neck of the woods, in Newfoundland and Labrador. He did it for expediency. A 200 mile limit, when he should have taken in the Nose and the Tail of the Grand Banks at that time. Let me tell you something else. When the agreement was signed between France and Canada, the 1972 agreement, that is what started the demise of. 3PS . Now they are finished up there they want to come into other parts, 2J and 3KL. That was under a Liberal Government, not a Tory Government. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) . MR. PARSONS: Dr.

Kirby and his report? 000 pounds. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible). MR. PARSONS: 4-00 Oh, I agree with the hon. Mt::~mber. I agree with him wholeheartedly, but what we did not take into consideration was that we were not L38 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI alike at all, there were no similarities between the coast of the United States, Iceland, or anywhere else that had come up with the 200 mile 1 irni t. Our Continental Shelf went beyond thE! . 200 mile limit, and if we had taken that into consideration, then we would have taken in those areas. And I think at that particular time we possibly could have gotten l.t.

Right now I doubt it very much. I do not think there is really much chance that our jurisdiction tAii.ll take in the Nose and Tai1 of the Grand Banks. I really do not think so. Le·t me go on to some other items. The fishing industry: The Prern:i.el" stood in this House and he said, 1 6,000 jobs are going to go in the fishery. 1 Now let me say this to 'you. The only controversy out there over the 6,000 is if he meant 6,000 fishermen, and did he include the plant workers associated with ~hat? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR.

PARSONS : Yes, my friend 'i. t is going to bE! approximate but it is not going to be lower, but much, much higher. We have seen it start today with the plant on the Southside. I feel sorry for the Member St. John 1 s South, I J"ea].ly Nothing political . I know f"or do. that a over on the Sou ·l:hsicle thert=:'! is a gr·eat number of peop1E! in particular area ouer there whose jobs are contingent upon that plant remaining open. It is a sad day for all those people. The hon. Minister of Fisheries knows what I speak about. There are husbands working in the plant, wives working in the plant, and No. SO R38

usually if there is a downtime they· end up LiJi th enough stamps to draw UIC. It is a lAJay. of life. No matter if you are in Burin, on Shea Heights, in Pouch Cove, Englee, Carbonear or Harbour Grace, when a great number of jobs are taken away from one area it causes havoc, it causes hardship which I am sure no Members of this hon. House, no matter which side they are on, would want to even think about ·let alone be part of. Again, to the hon. Member from St.

John 1 s South, I feel sorry, I really do, and I feel sorry for all the people who are going to lose their jobs; I feel sorry for the fishermen who, unless some . situation is created lAJhereby they are going to be ~ble to sell their catches - and I think perhaps there might be, but at the present time they are in limbo as to where those fishermen are going to sell their catches. I mentioned the other day, and it is real, that St. John 1 s was never noted to be an area of concern as it pertained to the ins hare, but that is a myth. I mean, there is a lot of fish ·landed in St.

John 1 s and it adds to the economy of ·this general area. Again, I do have concerns now about where those fishermen are going to sell their fish. Long Harbour, since this Government took over, the han. the Member For Placentia, 250 jobs; Grand FalJ.s 250 jobs, not rE!ally 250 jobs when you look at the loggers, when you look at the truck drivers, when you look at everyone else associated with the indus try ·- 500 jobs. Wooddale, 60 jobs, Superior Seafoods, 400 jobs, Universal Fisheries, 1, 500 jobs. AN HON. MEMBER : What about Sprung?

L39 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI I am not backing up one step as it pertains to Sprung. I told hon. Members across the House management problems were there, but we had a Minister at that particular time who addressed those problems. That was the only problem. Sprung itself was viable. We had problems, but what we did try to do was make jobs for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We did not try to take them atAJay from thr.:1m. You did not hear our Premier up there saying ·that soon there would be 6, 000 jobs lost in the fishery. He did not say there was going to be a machine close down at Abititi-Price. AN HON.

MEMBER: He told lies. M ~ . ..:......._f!l R SON._§ : No, he did not tell J.ies. That is what he did not, tell lies. UniversaJ. fisheries 1,500 people. I am surprised that the Minis·ter of Developrnr:1nt over· there has . not d o'ne something about '.it. WhE! re are those 1,500 people going to get jobs? The Premier joined APEC, A··-P-E--C, a few days ago: I tAJant' to tE!11 the Minister of Development that on the West Coast there is another closure coming up that the Minister is going to announce in a couple of days, and that is W(;!st. Coast Farm Products. MR. FUREY : Am I? MR .

PARSONS: Yes, you are going to announce it. More people unemployed. The brewing industry: If it takes - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). No. 50 R39

MR. PARSONS : It has, because the Premier has signed on the dotted line . He has taken out the barriers. AN·HON. MEMBER: Free Trade . MR. PARSONS: Na~·no-.--it had nothing to do with Free Trade. No, this was just adding to the Premier 1 s ego. He signed the deal with APEC. He did. He signed the deal with them, took away all the barriers, Mr. Speaker. The brewing industry could lose anywhere from 500 to 1, 000 jobs. How is the Minister of Development going to explain that?

I want to say to the Minister of Development that I have already told him in the House that he is going to close Newfoundland Farm Products on the West Coast. That is the information I have. He is going to close it. AN HON. MEMBER: What? MR. PARSONS :' Oh, yes. You had better t:alk to your Minister of Development. Yes , he is going to c 1 o s e it , with a· loss of several jobs. That is what I have been told. MR. FLIGHT: How many? MR. PARSONS : Seventy jobs . This Commission must be a tragic event for the Ministers on the other side. It must be.

When I look over there at the Minister of Development, the Minister of Fisheries, the Ministes of Environment and Transportation, the han. the House Leader, the Lll-0 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI ·' ·. Minister of the high trees, they must feel awfully bad that the Premier did not have enough faith, enough trust in them to SclY, you can run this Province. You knotJJ, ~he people of Newfoundland and Labrador did not elect Dr. House. Those people over there were elected to run this Province. It was time for a changE:~. Fair! Fair! MR. FUREY: Did you vote for Co~federation? MR. PARSONS: Never mind Confederation. Balance.

Balance and being fair. How about the Ministers over there? How about all the han. Ministers? Surely, goodness, they must get up in the morning say:ing to themselves, 1 What doE!S the Premier think of us that he has to bring in a group of people who were never elected, who have no relevance, really, to Government? AN HON. MEMBER: I thought you said (inaudible). MR. PARSONS: I wil1 get to that. There was onE• man - AN HON. MEMBER: Two. MR . PARSONS: I am sorry, ttJJo . Now, let mE:~ say this. I knoLIJ thc0 Minister of Development Feels bad, because I knot..u of the Minis ler of Development 1 s ego.

He has an E!gO as talr as this bui1.ding. I arn six feet, five, and when I look at him sometimes I have to look up at. him. And the han . the House Leader, you know, who exudes ability to people close to him, and he does have a lot of ability. I have to ag1nee, ht::~ has a lot of ability, as does the hon. No. 50 l~lj.Q

the Minister of Education and the Minister of Employment over there. How bad must they feel when they say, 1 The Premier did not feel we were capable of running the Province, he had to bring in a group of people. MR . FUREY: What about his ego? MR. PARSONS: Oh, I told you, the the high trees, or the whichever you choose. Minister of lo1.u bushes, The Minister of Developmenf mentioned that Dr. House headed up a Commission on Employment and Unemployment for the previous Government. Well, he is right. And that is like the rest of what he p~esented.

He presented books about what the problems were pertaining to employment and what we should do to fix the situation. Why, after all that is shelved, gathering dust, do we now have Dr. House, at a 'cost of $2 million per annum, and going up ..:... because the Government are saying now, ·we are returning moneys this year, but wait until next year; you are only six mont:hs in power. Some of the money is going back to the Treasury. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. PARSONS: Oh, my! Some of the money is going back to the Treasury. They did not do anything. I just mentioned Newfoundland Farm Products.

The Minister of Development is going to make ·an announcement this week whereby seventy more Newfoundlanders are going to lose their jobs. I really do pity the Minister of Fisheries and the Minister of L41 December 8, 1989 Vol XLI Education. The han. thE! House Leader wanted to abolish the school tax. The Minister of Education did not know where he was going to g~~t $30 mi11ion, so his colleagues ralliE!d to his support and the han. the Member for Gander l.uas defeated, and, Mr. Speaker, thank God for that.

I also feel ~or the Minister of Fisheries, because the Minister of Fisheries, like all the rest of the Ministers over l:hE!r'e, cannot ·be constructive. They have plenty ability to be constructive, but they have one man who runs the show. AN HON. MEMBER : Who is that? MR. PARSONS: The man who sits in tall trees place there, that gentlE!Inan right there runs the show. He is God. How· great thou art! Mr. Clean. I will bet you any money that the pe6ple on the Southside are not going to call him Mr.

Glean today or when the rest of · the announcements are made as it pertains to plant closures, and the rest of the announcemE!nts al~e made as it pertains to fisherrnE!n being taken out of the boats. I bet you he will not then be called a God. I bet you he l~o.Ji.ll not be Mr. Clean. MR. WARREN : You only have thirty minutes left . MR. PARSONS: That is fine. I would much rather put my foot upon the Chair, but since you will not allow it, I will go on for the next thirty minutes. MS DUFF: The Minister of Development wanted to ask a question. No. 50 r~41

MR. PARSONS : The hon. the Member for St. John 1 s East reminded me that the Minister of Development wanted to ask a question. I am very, very sorry I did not facilitate him. He still thinks he is in Opposition. You only have three more years to wait, and then you will be able to ask all the questions you like. If you keep on causing unemployment, creating an atmosphere, people will ask what did the Minister of Development do? We had great trust in the Minister of Development. You will have plenty of time to ask questions- after three years. We cannot do it any sooner. Mr .

Speaker, I find it regressive, I rea.lly do. I said why I do not like commissions when they have to do tJJ:ith the economy. Commissions are not really answerable to anyone. I heard the Premier say on several instances in the House, I do not know. I. have not spoken to anyone on the tommission of late. I am saying to the h~n. members across the HousE!, you were ele.cted to do a job,- not Dr. House. He was not elected to do it . If y 0 u wanted Dr . H 0 use I s expertise you had it. You had it in the report he brou~ht in a couple of years ago, to the previous Government.

You did not have to have an Economic Commission. If Dr. House was such a great person, and I think he is. I think Dr. House is a good man, I really do, but the point remains he did what he had to do at that particular time . He made recommendations. Why did you not carry out the recommendations made in that study rather than bring out this $3 million hoax? Five million in the next few years. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) $23 million? L4-2 December 8, 1989 Vol ~LI MR. PARSONS: you please tell be quite? He his own seat. used to the never become Mr. Speaker, would the han.

Member to is not sitting in Oh, he is getting seat, but it will reality. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Member 1 s time ~s up . MR. PARSONS: I am just Speaker. get·l:.ing SOME HON. MEMBERS : By leave. MR. SP'EAKER: By leave . warrn, Mr . Mr. Speaker, I am going ·to close, but I have to object to one of the things my han. fr·iend for Lewisporte (Mr. Penney) said about ~reating employment. He said if all the stores LI.Jerr:~ t·o have thr·ee or four employees and there WE! re twenty of them, we would end up with, say, 100 employees lAJE! do no·t see because the twos and threes just are not accountable.

But let me say to the hon. Member from Lewisporte, if this Government persists and takes the pE!Ople out of the workforce, who is going to buy from the convenience stores? Therr~ is not anyone to buy. The only situation that is left is what the han. Minister of Employment said, weJ.fare. And, Mr. Speaker, God forbid. But that is lAJhat it is if this Gouernrnent stays on the road that they are on, therE! is nothing can happE•n in this Province, Mr. Speaker. Everything is a downturn . And, Mr. Speaker, -I regret that th-.is commission was ever estabJ.ished. And in closing, Mr.

Speaker, if the responsibilities lie wi l:h the No . 50 R4-2

Members on that side to do a job that they t.uere elected for, not t:o be answerable to any commission that was not elected, has no part of this Government. With that said, . Mr. Speaker, I thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! - MR. FUREY : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ·se.fore_I._recognize thE! han. the Minister of Development I would just like to take this opportunity to welcome to the galleries a group of students from St. Georges High School, New Harbour. We have 46 level 11 Democracy students. And on behalf of ·the han.

Members of the House I welcome th~::Hn here, and they are accompanied by their teacher, Mr. Collins. The han. the Minister of Deve+opment. MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, if I speak now on behalf of the Premier - MR . SPEAKER : Order, please! Okay, the Chair did not recognize that the han. Minister of Developmen ·t was spE!aking on behalf of the Premier. MR. FUREY: I t.uas about to say that in the absenc