British Columbia Hansard — 23 October 2019, p.m., Issue 279 (41st Parliament, 4th Session)

20191023pm-Hansard-n279

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday, October 23, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 279 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fourth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon.

Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon. George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon.

Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon.

Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and Minister of Citizens’ Services ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon.

Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................ Spencer Chandra Herbert Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...................................................................................................................................................................... S.

Suzie Seo Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) .......................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)......................................................................

Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal).................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Jinny (NDP) .......................................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ....................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama..................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Wednesday, October 23, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members................................................................................................................................................... 10179 Introduction and First Reading of Bills.............................................................................................................................. 10180 Bill M225 — Ukrainian Famine and Genocide (Holodomor) Memorial Day Act A. Weaver Bill M226 — Assessment (Split Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2019 T.

Stone Statements (Standing Order 25B) ....................................................................................................................................... 10181 Y outh in care J. Routledge Rock Creek fire hall L. Larson Korean Language Day A. Kang Leo Sabulsky M. Bernier Democracy and elections S. Chandra Herbert Small business B. Stewart Oral Questions....................................................................................................................................................................... 10183 Forest industry and government support for communities and workers A.

Wilkinson Hon. D. Donaldson M. Hunt Government action on climate change and risk assessment report S. Furstenau Hon. G. Heyman Forest management and climate change mitigation S. Furstenau Hon. G. Heyman Forest worker support program and rural dividend funding S. Bond Hon. D. Donaldson G. Kyllo Forest industry and government support for communities and workers J. Tegart Hon. D.

Donaldson Tabling Documents............................................................................................................................................................... 10188 Office of the Auditor General,Managing Human Resources at the B.C. Sheriff Service, independent audit report, October 2019 Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House.......................................................................................................................................... 10188 Bill 35 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2019(continued) M. Lee Hon. C.

Trevena Reporting of Bills................................................................................................................................................................... 10189 Bill 35 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2019

Committee of the Whole House.......................................................................................................................................... 10189 Bill 36 — Gaming Control Amendment Act, 2019 J. Y ap Hon. D. Eby L. Throness E. Ross J. Rustad M. Lee A. Olsen S. Gibson N. Letnick Hon. S. Simpson Point of Privilege (Reservation of Right) ........................................................................................................................... 10220 J. Rustad

WEDNESDAY , OCTOBER 23, 2019 The House met at 1:36 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. Introductions by Members Hon. D. Eby: We’re joined today by Michael James Penny and Mattis Beak from the B.C. Wrongful Death Law Reform Society. They’re here to talk with members about the important issue of how our legal system treats families of those who have died as a result of wrongful or negligent conduct. Will the House please join me in making them feel very welcome here. Hon. L.

Beare:I have the great pleasure to introduce two very important people sitting here in the gallery today: my administrative coordinator, Jennifer Dunnett — who I absconded from the Premier’s office, by the way, thank you; and administrative assistant Sydney White. They obviously help make my office run very smoothly, and I’m very grateful for all the work they do every day. They’re both new to my office, so I’m very excited to have them. L.

Reid: Kudoz started in the Lower Mainland in 2014 as a platform that pairs up volunteers with wonderful learning experiences, everything from learning muffins to quantum physics to local politics. Joining us in the gallery today, we have Olivia, Kristina, Tracey, Jacob, Riley, Allison and Andie, with a special hi to Andie’s mom. Please join me in making them very welcome. Hon. K. Conroy:In the gallery today, we’re joined by a number of youths representing Fostering Change, a group of youth with lived experience who seek to change public policy for youth transitioning from care into adulthood.

Thirty-eight youth are here today for their annual advocacy day, meeting with a number of ministers and MLAs. Also here are two Fostering Change organizers, Dylan Cohen and Susan Russell. The group is hosted by First Call: B.C. Child and Y outh Advocacy Coalition. First Call’s pro- vincial coordinator, Adrienne Montani, is also here. I know they’ve already met with some of my colleagues, and I’m also looking forward to sitting down with some of them and hearing from them about what their issues are and what they want to talk about with us.

I’m thrilled, as Minis- ter of Children and Family, to welcome all the youth. On behalf of the Premier and our government, I thank you for your advocacy and commitment to making life better for youth in care. Will the House please join me in welcoming these very special guests. [1:40 p.m.] R. Leonard:Not quite in the House yet today but under this roof is a class of grade 12 students from the Phil and Jen- nie Gaglardi Academy up in Comox.

I’ d like to pay special tribute to Joy Tansky, the teacher who has very diligently brought students down to this House on many, many occa- sions and is very dedicated to our parliamentary democracy. May the House please welcome Joy Tansky and her grade 12 students and escorts. J. Martin:Joining us this afternoon is my constituency assistant, Montana Armstrong. She’s accompanied by her little sister Olivia and her cousin Avery. If I can just say…. Prior to coming over to the dark side here in Victoria, I used to have a little side barbecue catering gig going, and Montana was my assistant in that for a few years.

I found out that not too long after that she became a vegetarian. My concern now is that when she leaves my office, she’s going to take out an NDP membership. Hon. M. Mark:In the House, we are joined by two staff from my ministry, the Ministry of Advanced Education, Skills and Training. Kara Jenne is an educational officer in the governance, legislation and corporate planning division. Darren Francis is documents coordinator in the deputy min- ister’s office. I am grateful for all of the hard work of our public service and what they do to make people’s lives better across British Columbia.

Would the House please join me in welcoming my special guests. S. Furstenau:I, too, had the pleasure of meeting with some of the youth from Fostering Change today. Glugwe, Adil, Jamie, Marcy, Jess, Jason, Shae, Susan and I just spent the last hour together, hearing from them about their advocacy for universal comprehensive agreements with young adults to ensure that youth aging out of care have access to $1,000 in a consistent and equitable way. I was very moved by what I heard from this group of very articulate and passionate young people. One thing in particular.

They pointed out that parents lift their children up to ensure success for them. Anybody who’s in the room who’s a parent knows that that is exactly what we try to do as parents. They indicated that if the government is their parent, they want the same — lifting up to ensure that they have success — from the government that all of their peers, who are parented by their own parents, expect from their families. G. Kyllo:I’m joined today by a very close friend of near 40 years, Shan Trouton. Shan and his wife Barb are from West Vancouver. Shan is the owner and principal of the Rostrum 10179

Developments company and does a lot of development up in the Squamish area and, unfortunately, an increasing amount of investment outside of our province. I’ d like the House to please make Shan feel very welcome. D. Ashton:I’ d like to welcome Derek Badger from Pentic- ton today, here in the House to see the proceedings taking place and also question period. For those in the House, the original people of the Okanagan called Penticton snpintktn. In Sylix, it means “a place to stay forever. ” Thanks for coming, Derek. A.

Weaver:I would be remiss if I, too, did not join the member for Chilliwack and welcome Montana to the House today and point out to her that the appropriate party to which she might seek more allegiance is the Green Party of British Columbia. J. Routledge:I see in the gallery a young constituent from my constituency of Burnaby North. Allie Fox is here, going to the University of Victoria, studying history and geo- graphy. I’m so delighted to welcome her here. Will you all join me in giving her a warm welcome. R. Singh:Joining us in the gallery is Anup Singh Khokar.

I’ve known Anup’s family for a number of years, as his moth- er, Pushwinder, was my dad’s student. Now Anup is an inter- national student at UVic, doing a master’s in nanoscience. Would the House please make him feel very welcome. [1:45 p.m.] Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL M225 — UKRAINIAN FAMINE AND GENOCIDE (HOLODOMOR) MEMORIAL DAY ACT A. Weaver presented a bill intituled Ukrainian Famine and Genocide (Holodomor) Memorial Day Act. A.

Weaver:I move that a bill intituled Ukrainian Famine and Genocide (Holodomor) Memorial Day Act, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read a first time now. I’m pleased to be introducing this bill that would establish the fourth Saturday in November as Holodomor Memorial Day throughout British Columbia. The term “Holodomor” is derived from the words“moryty holodom, ” meaning extermination by hunger. During Holodomor, between three million and five million Ukrain- ians died as a result of a deliberate and politically motivated famine in 1932 and ’33.

This bill, if passed, would allow the fourth Saturday in November to be memorialized by the Legislature as Ukrainian Famine and Genocide Holodomor Memorial Day. Canada is home to the world’s third-largest Ukrainian population behind Ukraine and Russia, with an estimated 1.36 million Ukrainian Canadians living across our country. Among them are members of my family. In my family’s case, as part of the collectivization of farms, mydid was shipped to northern Russia. My Ukrainian mother, Ludmilla, now lives here in Victoria with my father.

In this tabling, I would also like to recognize the Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology for his continued efforts to have Holodomor recognized in the House. Mr. Speaker:The question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. A. Weaver:I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill M225, Ukrainian Famine and Genocide (Holodomor) Memorial Day Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M226 — ASSESSMENT (SPLIT ASSESSMENT CLASSIFICATION) AMENDMENT ACT, 2019 T. Stone presented a bill intituled Assessment (Split Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2019. T. Stone:I move that the bill intituled Assessment (Split Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2019, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read a first time now. As our urban centres grow, the resulting plans for sig- nificant densification are placing huge pressures on small businesses through dramatically increased property taxes based on the unused air space above their heads.

This is resulting in the hollowing out of many neighbourhoods as an increasing number of small businesses make the pain- ful decision to lay off employees and close their doors. This means that your favourite pizza shop, coffee house and art gallery in communities like Vancouver, Surrey and Coquitlam, to name a few, are disappearing, changing forever the neighbourhood you love. The good news is that a working group — including the cities of Vancouver, Burnaby, North Van, Richmond, Surrey, West Van and Coquitlam, among others — has come up with a solution to this problem.

These local governments are sup- ported by a broad coalition of stakeholders, including arts, culture, neighbourhood and small business organizations, as well as the support of UBCM and chamber resolutions. The solution proposed includes two parts: first, the cre- ation of a new commercial property subclass for the air space above small businesses and other affected organiz- 10180 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

ations; and No. 2, maximum flexibility for local govern- ments to set the property tax rate on this new subclass as they see fit, from zero dollars to just below the existing commercial property tax rate. I’m proud that this bill provides for the exact solution that local governments have asked for. That is an optional tool that they can use, or not, at a rate that they determine makes the most sense for each unique situation that they’re trying to address. We urge the government to call this bill for debate imme- diately so that its provisions can be implemented in time for the 2020 tax year.

Small businesses, arts groups and charit- ies are counting on the government to take swift action by empowering local governments to use this new tool as soon as they see fit. I can’t think of a better time to make this happen than doing it right now, during Small Business Month. Mr. Speaker:The question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. T. Stone:I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M226, Assessment (Split Assessment Classification) Amendment Act, 2019, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) YOUTH IN CARE J. Routledge:Seeing the Fostering Change advocates in the gallery today reminds me that the government is the parent of young people in care.

So the government must be good parents and be there for youth to make sure they are well supported and have every opportunity to thrive as healthy, happy adults. [1:50 p.m.] This is done through a variety of programs and partner- ships like life skills programs, education, career training, employment programs, supportive housing, medical care, income assistance and counselling. An expanded tuition waiver program helps young people from care access free tuition at any of B.C. ’s 25 public post-secondary institutions.

Tuition is also being waived now for trades-training pro- grams at ten union-based training providers. Government expanded and enhanced the agreements with the young adults program, which provides eligible former youth in care with funding to cover monthly living expenses while they finish high school or attend post-secondary vocational train- ing, life skills and/or rehabilitation programs up to their 27th birthday. Recent improvements to AYA added an extra year of program eligibility, increased the maximum monthly sup- port rate from $1,000 to $1,250 and made supports available for a full calendar year.

But there is more to do. Today government ministers and MLAs are meeting with and listening to youth who have been in care. By learning about what makes the biggest dif- ference in the lives of youth, government can make decisions to serve them better and find better ways to support youth transitioning into adulthood. I’ d like to acknowledge and welcome First Call: B.C. Child and Y outh Advocacy Coalition and Fostering Change cam- paign organizers and youth to the Legislature today. The advocacy you do for youth in and from care gives voice to those who may be unable to speak up. We hear you.

ROCK CREEK FIRE HALL L. Larson:On September 29, the Midway Fire Depart- ment celebrated the opening of their satellite hall in Rock Creek. First responders from the volunteer fire departments of Big White, Anarchist Mountain, Christina Lake, Grand Forks and Greenwood joined their associates from the Mid- way Volunteer Fire Department and the rural residents of the Kettle Valley to officially open their new fire hall.

A referendum in 2016 created a partnership with the vil- lage of Midway to provide a more localized fire service for the area with a tanker truck and a pumper truck housed in the new fire hall, 20 kilometres closer to the population of Rock Creek. Walt Osellame has been the fire chief in Midway for 30 years. He has spent the last ten years working on this project to improve fire service for the residents of the rural community of Rock Creek.

With help from the Kettle River Lions Club, some signi- ficant grants were applied for which created the seed money that helped the project move forward with the purchase of equipment and the building of the satellite hall. There are 40 volunteers with the Midway fire department, and many of them live in Rock Creek. They are now able to respond more quickly with the necessary equipment close at hand when the need for first responders arises.

This project would never have been completed without the community volunteers throughout the Kettle Valley, the hard work of rural director Vicki Gee, the Kettle River Lions Club, the mayor and council of Midway and the determina- tion of fire chief Walt Osellame to provide better fire protec- tion for the people of this rural region. Thank you to everyone who worked on this community project. KOREAN LANGUAGE DAY A. Kang: Gamsahamnida. I am pleased to rise in the House today to honour Korean Language Day, known as Hangul Day. Korea has a beautiful rich history and culture.

Hangul Day is celebrated every October 9 in South Korea and Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10181

commemorates the invention of Hangul in the 15th cen- tury by King Sejong. This phonetic alphabet of the Korean language helped to promote literacy through this country at a time when many people didn’t have the right to a formal education. There are more than 52,000 Korean Canadians in B.C. who identify Korean as one of their primary languages. Lan- guage is integral to identity. Passing language down to our children is key in preserving our diverse cultures. Today and every day we celebrate this inclusive, multi- cultural province we are so fortunate to live in.

By celeb- rating and honouring our heritage, we foster respect and appreciation for all cultures, strengthen community ties and increase understanding to make all of our lives better. [1:55 p.m.] Across government and alongside community leaders, we’re honouring our cultural diversity and acknowledging the contributions of people of all backgrounds. I am proud to be in a government that believes and invests in diversity, inclusion and mutual respect. I hope you will join me in learning about Korean Lan- guage Day. I learned a few phrases which I can use when I visit the Korean community, like: “How are you?

It’s very nice to meet you. Thank you for inviting me here. ” Annyeonghaseyo, bangabseubnida. Chodaehae jusyeoseo gamsahabnida. LEO SABULSKY M. Bernier:So many of us have small communities in our ridings, and in those communities, there is usually that one person that stands out that you could not imagine that com- munity being without. When I think of Chetwynd, I think of Leo Sabulsky. I cannot think of a community event where Leo isn’t at.

I have yet to meet a person in the riding who doesn’t know who Leo is, and I’ve yet to hear about an issue or a rumour that Leo doesn’t seem to hear about before any- body else. Knowing Leo, he probably starts some of those rumours, which is why. In 1977, Leo joined the Chetwynd Volunteer Fire Depart- ment and then, in 1994, became the chief. He remained chief until this June, when he retired. Leo was frustrated when he became the chief because he was unable to communicate quickly to the people in the Chetwynd area if there was ever an emergency or an accident that he felt people needed to be aware of.

So Leo did what Leo does. He got busy to solve the problem. With the help of a few other volunteers, in 1996, he set up and launched Canada’s first community-owned radio sta- tion, CHET-FM. And he didn’t stop there. A few years later he then launched Canada’s first community-owned TV sta- tion, CHET-TV . Seems any time there was an issue in Chetwynd, Leo was close by, trying to help out in some way. In fact, I always joke that there must be ten Leos, because how can anyone be everywhere at the same time, as he seemed to be?

Unfortunately, on July 10, at the age of 66, Leo passed away after a brief battle with cancer, with his wife of 44 years, Janice, by his side. Chetwynd is an amazing community because of all the contributions that Leo has made to help make lives safer and better in our region. I cannot think of Chetwynd without thinking of Leo Sabulsky. DEMOCRACY AND ELECTIONS S. Chandra Herbert:Anyone who has looked around the globe knows that democracy and the practice of democracy can be a fragile thing, often under threat, often under assault by those who want absolute control or power.

Well, I want to celebrate our recent election. I think too often we can forget those who make demo- cracy work, those who give us the opportunity to have our voices heard as citizens, as electors, as candidates, as elec- teds. I want to thank the voters who voted in the 43rd gen- eral federal election because they, too, are often forgotten in the realm of politics as we focus on the key performers, the key teams — who went up, who went down. So 17,890,264 Canadians voted in this last election. We should celebrate them all. I think it’s worth applause, but hey, I worked in theatre. Sometimes asking for applause….

Y ou’re not supposed to, but I just did. But really, it’s them. It’s the poll workers. It’s the volunteers. It’s the returning officers. It’s the campaign teams. It’s the candidates who put their names forward, most of whom lost but most who, I think, also won because they had the opportunity to put forward their vision for their community, put forward their ideas for a better Canada. I want to thank the families. I realize I’m reading from a piece of paper that is scribbled on by my son. It’s the famil- ies who make this work.

It’s the families, the loved ones who allow democracy to happen in the great way it does. They have a hard time of it too, because sometimes there are those who believe that insult is better than hope, that attacking is better than dreaming, than working for that better world. It’s easier for many to tear down rather than build up. [2:00 p.m.] I want to thank the door-knockers, those who put forward their belief against, in some cases, horrible odds, to see that maybe they need to try again. Thank you to the citizens. Let’s remember that it should be the citizens who win elec- tions, not just political parties.

We should be working to make sure all communities win when we work in elections. SMALL BUSINESS B. Stewart:It gives me great honour to speak about Small Business Week here in the House. Many members in this House have spoken about the importance of small business in the province and their own personal experiences. Small businesses are the backbone of B.C. ’s vibrant economy, and they provide numerous crucial job opportunities. I remem- 10182 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

ber dreaming big 30 years ago, in the 1970s, and then start- ing a business that now, 30 years later this month, is celeb- rating the success of being a small business at the start. In particular, small businesses make a difference to local economies by drawing out and promoting their individuality and character. That’s why I’ d like to draw attention to two of the businesses in West Kelowna and Kelowna, both of which have been nominated in the Kelowna chamber’s upcoming 32nd annual Business Excellence Awards in November.

The first one is Volcanic Hills Winery, a family-owned business that started farming in the Okanagan over 50 years ago operated by Bobby and Christina Gidda — brother and sister, a third-generation West Kelowna family. It all started when their grandfather, this winery’s owner, came to Canada from a small town in India. He had just $5 in his pocket and didn’t speak a word of English. Half a century later this 15,000-square-foot winery continues to be a success. It employs 15 full- and part-time employees and offers a diverse selection of great B.C. wines.

The other small business, now celebrating 20 years in operation, is Okanagan Lavender, a small family farm run by Dave and Andrea McFadden — and Keely, Fabien, Rory, Alyssa, Liam and, soon, Laughlin — which grows herbs and natural products from sustainably sourced organic ingredi- ents grown on their farm. This has been a big year, 2019, for them. They recently won Canada Post’s E-Commerce Innovation Social Respons- ibility Award. As well, they were recognized in the top 100 finalists in the Telus challenge for small business and a final- ist in the FedEx small business competition.

It makes me proud to see what this company has achieved for sustainab- ility, biodiversity and the impact on the local economy. Best wishes to both those businesses. Oral Questions FOREST INDUSTRY AND GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITIES AND WORKERS A. Wilkinson:It’s no secret in British Columbia that since January, we’ve seen at least 89 curtailments, shutdowns, per- manent closures of mills in the forest industry. We’ve had a Premier who said in the past that this never would have happened under an NDP government. We’ve had a Forests Minister say it’s not a crisis.

But for the 6,000 direct employees and the roughly 10,000 contract employees, they have no income and no prospect of income. It’s going to be a very dark Christmas for these families. Y et at the same time, we have a par- liamentary secretary who blows them off by saying there are too many mills. We have a Premier who was asked about these communities that are so badly affected, and he describes them as spoiled children. The question, which obviously goes to the Minister of Forests, is on just one circumstance: the Hammond Cedar sawmill in Maple Ridge.

Asked about it on CBC radio, his response was: “They can get a job on the Pattullo Bridge. ” When can the employees, or former employees, of the Ham- mond Cedar sawmill in Maple Ridge look forward to any kind of substantive answer from the Forests Minister? Hon. D. Donaldson:Well, our hearts go out to those who have witnessed and been part of curtailments and mill shut- downs in the Interior and around the province. We’ve heard from those workers. We’ve listened, and we’ve taken action. That’s unlike the previous government, which oversaw the loss of 30,000 forestry jobs and the closure of dozens of mills.

We’ve taken action in the Interior with the forest support program that we recently announced. We’re working on the long-term vision for the Interior, which this previous gov- ernment ignored. [2:05 p.m.] On the coast, we’ve undertaken the coast forest sector revitalization initiative. That will drive more logs to domestic production and also bring more fibre out of the forest, some- thing that was ignored by the previous government. We’ll end up with more jobs in the coastal forest sector industry. Mr. Speaker:The Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental. A.

Wilkinson:Well, we can only think of writing it out in a letter and sending it to the residents of Maple Ridge and see what they have to say about the Forests Minister’s com- plete indifference to the fate of that community. Teal-Jones in North Surrey is facing the same fate. This is the minister’s concept of coast forest revitalization: mass, permanent lay- offs and shutdowns. I’ll ask him once again. Will he please provide some kind of answer to those 100 families in Maple Ridge who have no work and no prospect of work? Hon. D.

Donaldson:Again, our thoughts are with those people who have lost their work and employment due to cut- backs and curtailments in the forestry sector. On the coast situation, largely, that is a result of the log export situation, which grew exponentially under the previous government. We’re determined that those logs should be sent to domestic production so that the jobs can come back in the mills. Y ou know, this was something that was known to the previous government for many years.

We have created, as well, fibre recovery zones, where we’re intent on bringing more fibre out of the forests in order to be used in mills around the province. The workers in the Hammond situation. Luckily, there’s a buoyant economy, as outlined yesterday by the Jobs Min- ister, and there are other opportunities in the communities in which they reside. We’re determined that they can get back to work in the mills, as well, when we get dealing with the situation that was left to us by the previous government, around putting logs in domestic production and bringing more fibre out of the forests.

Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10183

M. Hunt:Well, this crisis began in January, and what has been the NDP’s response? Their response has been…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Members, please. We shall hear the question. Thank you. M. Hunt: Except for heckling, their response has been silence. Except, of course: “The minister’s thoughts are with you. ” Williams Lake, Houston, Castlegar, Kelowna, Vavenby, Maple Ridge, Surrey, Vancouver Island — all over this province, jobs have been lost, while the minister remains silent, except to deny that there is a crisis. After months wasted before taking any action, he still manages to get it wrong.

My question to the minister is: do the workers at Surrey- based Teal-Jones qualify for the NDP’s exit-the-industry fund? Hon. D. Donaldson:Nothing could typify the lack of knowledge on the other side but the first part of the question saying that this began in January. Unbelievable. It’s well documented that the members on the other side, the 3.1 Forests Ministers, had knowledge of the situ- ation in the Interior as far back as 2012 — knowing that there was going to be a decrease in the lumber available for mills, due to the mountain pine beetle infestation coming to an end.

Y et they did nothing to prepare communities. So we ended up…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Members, please. We shall hear the response. Hon. D. Donaldson:Thank you, hon. Speaker. The member’s question referenced communities through- out the Interior as well as on the coast, so I’m happy to talk about the Interior situation and the coast situation — the mess that was left to us by the previous government. What we have on the Interior is that we’ve addressed the immediate needs of workers — they were first and foremost in our minds — with the community forest worker support program.

We’ve also addressed the long-term issues that were ignored by the previous government with our Interior forest renewal initiative. [2:10 p.m.] On the coast, there have been structural issues that were ignored again by the previous government around log exports, driving logs to domestic mills, and that’s what we’re focusing on — fixing a problem that was left by the previous government. Workers around the province in the forest sec- tor are what matters to us on this side. Mr. Speaker:The member for Surrey-Cloverdale on a supplemental. M. Hunt:There are more than 500 workers at Teal-Jones.

They are spread across the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island. And once again the NDP have decided to pick win- ners and losers. Question to the minister: why can’t the hundreds of work- ers in Maple Ridge, Surrey and Vancouver Island get assist- ance? Hon. D. Donaldson:Well, the short answer is they can. Under the interior forest sector support program…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. D. Donaldson:If they want to wait. Hold it. Y ou’ll get an answer if you listen.

We have a $12 million allotment for the retraining aspect of forestry workers, and that’s available to the workers at Hammond and Teal-Jones as well. The fact is that we take forestry seriously on this side of the House. We’re planning not only for the present to sup- port workers but for the future — something that was not done by the previous government.

We’re planning for the workers that need retraining for the future jobs in the forest sector, the workers that are going to be at the forefront of the engineered wood portfolio, as well as the new products that will be created by the wood that comes out of the forest. That’s what we’re focused on — the present and the future. GOVERNMENT ACTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND RISK ASSESSMENT REPORT S. Furstenau:Earlier this summer the government quietly released thePreliminary Strategic Risk Assessment for B.C.

It was a dramatic document that outlined future climate risks for the province: frequent flooding, more wildfires, longer periods of drought, sustained heatwaves and long-term water shortages, among others. While I credit the government for engaging in a climate risk assessment, I and my colleagues were puzzled by the lack of attention the government gave this preliminary assessment. British Columbians are concerned and want to know as much as possible about the climate crisis. Tens of thousands of people were marching in the streets just a few weeks ago, demanding climate action.

These types of reports need to be communicated widely to British Columbians so that they can understand the risks we are facing and why ambitious climate action is necessary. My question is to the Minister of Environment and Cli- mate Change Strategy. Why did the government not com- municate this report widely to British Columbians? 10184 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

Hon. G. Heyman:Thank you to the House Leader of the Third Party for not only the question but for the important focus that she and her colleagues, as well as all members on this side of the House, place on this critical issue of address- ing the threat of climate change. In fact…. Interjections. Hon. G. Heyman: I don’t even know that I’ve said any- thing worthy of heckling yet.

In fact, taking seriously the scientific reports and studies about the risks of climate change is what resulted in our confidence and supply agreement, which has brought British Columbians good governance on a whole range of issues, including this one. The climate risk assessment that we performed indeed revealed the very significant risks of heatwaves, forest fires, seasonal water shortage, flooding and drought that the member raises. It is not in my interest or this government’s interest to not have British Columbians know about this study.

In fact, it is a central part of our commitment to develop, by 2020, a climate risk preparedness and adaptation strategy, and that is exactly what we are doing. We consulted with the following organizations prior to releasing this study: the Union of B.C. Municipalities envir- onmental committee, the B.C. Business Council, the Muni- cipal Insurance Association of B.C., Asset Management B.C., our climate solutions council. [2:15 p.m.] Webinars were held for Indigenous organizations, the fin- ancial sector and external adaptation partners.

We believe and we count on British Columbians under- standing the risks that we face as the reason that we’re bring- ing in CleanBC policies today and in the future. Mr. Speaker:The House Leader of the Third Party on a supplemental. FOREST MANAGEMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE MITIGATION S. Furstenau:Clearly, the minister is proud of the work that they did. It doesn’t quite answer the question of why the report was quietly released without even a press release to indicate that it was being put out. I do look forward to reading the further reports that are coming.

The 15 spe- cific climate risk events are bad enough on their own, but when combined, they give new meaning to the word “cata- strophic, ” and I think we have to come to terms with that. We know these risks are coming. We know that what we do today matters. One of the things that is crystal-clear is the need to change our relationship with how we manage our forests, as they are one of our best protections against the risks of climate change.

Whether it is overharvesting that increases the chances of floods in communities or the combination of clear-cut logging and inadequate restoration of cutblocks contributing to more severe wildfires and flood risks, logging practices must be reformed to mitigate climate risk. We can’t do this soon enough. My question is to the Minister of Environment and Cli- mate Change Strategy. How is he working with the Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development to ensure that forests in the future will mitigate climate effects rather than exacerbate them? Hon. G.

Heyman:Thank you, again, to the House Leader of the Third Party for this question, as well as for her ongoing work with us on this issue. She’s quite correct. Forests have a critical role to play in sequestering carbon, in mitigating the impacts of a changing climate and protecting community watersheds and biod- iversity. That’s why our government, through the Minister of Forests, invested $196 million in wildfire risk reduction, reforestation and forest rehabilitation.

That’s why, through the community resiliency investment program, we provided $60 million to support local governments and Indigenous nations to mitigate wildfire threats near their communities. We’ve also invested $10 million to help develop a more com- prehensive prescribed burning program, one that incorpor- ates traditional, ecological and Indigenous knowledge.

It’s also why I am working closely with the Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations and other ministries on the environment and land use commission as we go forward with a comprehensive land use planning pro- gram that takes into account all of the values of forests, par- ticularly with relationship to the climate risks that we know are severe. FOREST WORKER SUPPORT PROGRAM AND RURAL DIVIDEND FUNDING S. Bond: So let’s recap. Eighty-nine curtailments or shut- downs in the B.C. forest industry. More than 6,000 workers and their families directly impacted, plus thousands of indir- ect jobs.

Then we have a minister who ignored the crisis, who said to these workers and to these families that there is no crisis — a minister who was missing in action. Then when he finally decided to act, he robs communities of the rural dividend fund, and he tells workers they have no future in the forest sector. The minister has a chance today to do the right thing. Will he restore the rural dividend fund immediately? Hon. D. Donaldson:The opposition benches are full of revisionist history as far as when it comes to what we’ve done for the forest sector and what they haven’t done.

Now, I find people in the Interior, people in the north, communities, local governments being very, very… Interjections. Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10185

Mr. Speaker:Members. [2:20 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:…understanding of the situation faced by their colleagues in the forest sector — the colleagues and the families who have been subject to the curtailment and the loss of work through the closure of mills. The rural dividend fund has been put temporarily in abatement until the next fiscal year. We’ve explained that in letters to the communities. That’s because on this side of the House, we put workers first. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. The member for Prince George–Valemount on a supple- mental. S.

Bond: While the minister over there wants to stand up and attempt to tout his record, here’s what he did. He took money out of the rural dividend fund, and he didn’t have the courage to look communities in the eye and actually be honest about that. In fact, here’s what happened. Community leaders were so upset about what happened that they actually put forward an emergency resolution at the Union of B.C. Municipalities. That’s the history. Those are the facts, to the minister. Then what did they do?

They voted unanimously — unan- imously — to ask the government to immediately restore the funds that, by the way, for the record, this government put in place for the rural dividend fund. So what did the government do? Absolutely nothing. In fact, what they did was ignore the resolution of elected leaders from across this province. Making it even worse, the Premier, in his speech at the Union of B.C. Municipalities, basically looked elected lead- ers in the eye and told them that they were acting like a bunch of spoiled kids. Shame on him. To the minister, a simple question.

Respond to the request of elected leaders across this province. Will he restore the rural dividend fund today? Hon. D. Donaldson:Well, only the Liberals would say that $69 million in a worker support program is nothing. I know they’re upset but $69 million…. Let’s take a little walk back through history and under- stand why we got to this situation and why we had to do the temporary reallocation of rural dividend funding. That’s because when they were in government, they ignored what was coming down the pike. I’ll read from a quote from my critic, who was a former cabinet minister when he was in cabinet.

In 2014, he said: “What I said was that there was going to be an estimated drop of about eight million cubic metres of wood, which would be about the equivalent of ten reasonably sized mills. ” That was in 2014. They had three more years of government to address that, and they did nothing. I would like to finish off… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. D. Donaldson:…by ensuring the record is correc- ted when it comes to what happened at the Union of B.C. Municipalities. I’ll quote Mayor Bjorndal from Port Edward in relation to what we did.

He said, “Personally, I think it’s the right thing to do” — reallocating the rural dividend fund. “We don’t have any forest-dependent jobs here, and the help is not as needed. There are towns that are really hurting. So it is being done for the right reasons. ” G. Kyllo:After pretending that there was no crisis, the minister felt that he better do something. But here’s the prob- lem. Communities don’t want a band-aid solution; they want long-term solutions. The minister has not only failed to deliver anything to help; instead, he’s stolen the first-aid kit.

In Salmon Arm, the rural dividend fund has been extremely successful. It helped to fund the Innovation Centre. This program is helping small businesses to actually get on the ground and to diversify small communities across our great province. But what has this minister done? He’s cancelled the very program that was put in place to help small rural communities diversify their local economies. Question to the minister. By cancelling the rural dividend fund, it’s clear that you won’t help communities. So will you restore the rural dividend fund so that communities can help themselves? [2:25 p.m.] Hon. D.

Donaldson:As we explained to communities…. I had many meetings at the Union of B.C. Municipalities annual convention. I had 64 meetings with municipalities. As we talked about the rural dividend fund, they were understanding of why it needed to be reallocated to support families and workers. We also recognized the hard work it takes for many smaller municipalities to put those applica- tions together, and we said those applications will not be dis- carded. They’ll be held for the next fiscal cycle when funding becomes available once again.

The member talks about long-term solutions, and there’s a blind spot there when it comes to when they were in govern- ment. There’s a study that was commissioned by the previous government looking at the Interior forest industry and the forecast for wood. Quoting from it — this was provided to the government at the time in July 2015 — across the study area, six B.C. interior regions, the authors forecast the “even- tual closure of up to 13 mills in order to allow all the remain- ing mills to operate at close to their capacity. ” That was July 2015.

They had two years in government to 10186 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

do something about it. They did nothing to help communit- ies or workers prepare. Mr. Speaker:The member for Shuswap on a supplement- al. G. Kyllo:The rural dividend fund has been in place for over three years, providing close to $75 million to help com- munities diversify their economies to get ahead of this very important issue. We appreciate that governments have choice.

It’s interesting how the current government has found tens of millions of dollars to pull out of contingencies to help their pet projects, yet when we have the largest forest crisis in over 40 years, a challenge that’s having a significant impact on small communities across our province… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. G. Kyllo:…this government chooses to cannibalize the very program that was put in place to help small rural com- munities diversify their local economies.

With the rural development fund now cancelled for this year and no com- mitment yet as to when the funds will flow, other groups looking for assistance are simply out of luck. A simple question to the minister: will you restore the money you stole out of the rural development fund? Hon. D. Donaldson:We recognize the value of the rural dividend program to small communities around the province. That’s why we said that we would hold their applic- ations for funding in the next fiscal cycle.

They agreed with us that workers in communities that are hurting the most from forestry curtailments deserve to be put at the front of the line. We also got very positive feedback at the Union of B.C. Municipalities convention when we talked about our Interi- or worker support program — $40 million for a retirement bridging program, $15 million for a forestry employment program targeting contractors, $2 million for community- based job placement coordination offices and $12 million for retraining. That’s a commitment to the Interior. That’s a commitment to rural communities.

That’s a commitment to workers that this side takes seriously. FOREST INDUSTRY AND GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR COMMUNITIES AND WORKERS J. Tegart:Like many rural communities, communities in my riding have been hard hit by the forestry crisis. The last time I raised it in this House, the Premier told me to stop whining. But 6,000 workers do not have jobs. The crisis is real, and it’s impacting families by driving them out of our communities and their homes to search for work.

My question to the minister is: have you picked up the phone and called Trans Mountain pipeline to see if there is an opportunity for our local workers in Merritt to do the prep work? [2:30 p.m.] Hon. D. Donaldson:When I think about the forestry workers in Merritt, I think about the Merritt Tolko mill that was closed down under the previous government. I think about those workers who are not allowed to avail themselves of a $69 million worker support program that we put in place.

I also think about the 16 years that the members opposite had in government, how they gutted and hollowed out rural and Interior and coastal communities, closing over 200 schools, closing hospitals and not doing the work that was necessary for those communities to become stable. In the member’s own constituency, the kind of invest- ments that we find are important are in the public infrastruc- ture that will make communities attractive places to go to and to stay in — for instance, the Nicola Valley Institute of Technology, the new building, Centre of Excellence in Sus- tainability.

So $2.5 million — that’s the kind of investment that we’re serious about on this side, because we care about rural communities. J. Tegart:This minister and this government has ignored workers for months, and families are paying the price. On September 16, the Forests Minister said that communities could apply to the dividend fund. The next day he cancelled the fund. The minister also said that forestry workers can simply move into industries that they have no training for in other parts of the province. Minister, my workers don’t want to leave their homes and communities and uproot their families.

Will you restore the rural dividend fund so we can create local jobs? Hon. D. Donaldson:Well, as I said, we’re keeping the rur- al dividend applications. We’re holding on to them for the next fiscal cycle, because we recognize the amount of work that’s been put in by rural communities. But to say we’ve done nothing for workers…. So $69 mil- lion support program for bridging; for early retirement, $40 million; $12 million for retraining. The member speaks about doing work to help forest workers retrain for the future — $12 million. That’s only the tip of the iceberg.

While they, in government, gutted out Interior com- munities by closing down schools, by closing down hospit- als, we’ve taken the opposite approach towards rural devel- opment. We’ve invested in schools and hospitals. The Wil- liams Lake Cariboo Memorial Hospital approved. And $3.4 million for expanding an imaging facility in Kelowna. In Fort St. James, the Stuart Lake Hospital replacement concept plan has been approved. In Terrace, the Mills Memorial Hos- pital business plan has been approved. Schools in Quesnel, Maple Drive Middle School, renova- tion — $1.7 million.

The list goes on and on, because we care Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10187

about rural communities. We value their contribution to the province, and we’re doing something about it. [End of question period.] Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker:I have the honour to presentManaging Human Resources at the B.C. Sheriff Service, an independent report, 2019, from the Office of the Auditor General. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:I call continued committee on Bill 35, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act. [2:35 p.m. - 2:40 p.m.] Committee of the Whole House BILL 35 — MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2019 (continued) The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 35; J. Isaacs in the chair. The committee met at 2:43 p.m. On

section 116(continued). M. Lee:I just wish to pick up the discussion on 116. There was discussion with the member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky and the minister about the definition of “public interest. ” Components that were referred to related to the transport- ation strategy — what’s for the common good of the people — as well as recognition of the importance of continuing to lower our carbon footprint. Can I ask the minister what other examples or factors would be utilized to determine public interest — for ex- ample, in the area of public safety? Hon. C. Trevena:Thanks to the member for his questions.

It’s nice to have somebody else engaged in this as well. I think it’s a very interesting discussion on these pilot projects and what we’re going to be doing here. [2:45 p.m.] Y es, safety is obviously key to what we do as a ministry. We’ve got to make sure that everything is safe, so ensuring that safety is built in will be in the public interest. We had a discussion yesterday about whether people are going to hav- ing to wear helmets, and so on, and where people would be able to use these motorized personal mobility devices. Safety will be key.

That will be assessed, basically, through these pilot projects — what will come out to be the safest way for using them and integrating them into our transportation networks. M. Lee: Just to ask further in the amendment that’s being added — that is, new

section 304(2)(b). There’s a reference to “the objectives set by government. ” We’ve covered trans- portation yesterday and road safety just now. But could I ask: what other objectives, in the public interest, would these proposed pilot projects need to meet in terms of…? What other objectives would there be for government? Hon. C. Trevena:As the member is aware, this is enabling legislation. We do want to be prescribing what can and can’t be included.

Other parts of “consistent with the objectives set by government…. ” I mean, it goes without saying, I’ d say, that our environmental objectives through CleanBC, the objectives we laid down in our active transportation strategy of getting increasing people using active forms of transport- ation…. That will be part of it. With it, there are some infra- structure objectives. We’re working also, obviously, within partnership with the municipalities.

So if those municipalities have any specific objectives they’re trying to fulfil through their official com- munity plans, they are now looking at these forms of trans- portation and these pilot projects. There’s a lot of flexibility in this. As I say, it’s enabling legis- lation, so it will give the ability for everybody to get together and have good discussions about what it should look like in the different scenarios. M. Lee:Thank you for that response. The next section, which is the last

section of this new provision to be added, refers to consent. So in the case of municipal councils, what level of involvement will muni- cipalities have in being consulted and working through the parameters of a pilot project? What level of discussion and involvement will municipalities have in order to provide their consent? Hon. C. Trevena:These pilot projects that we’re discuss- ing — I think nearly all of them are going to come at the behest of the local governments or the treaty First Nations.

So our staff, the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastruc- ture staff, will be working in partnership with the muni- cipalities. There is an anticipation that this will be a joint approach. We’re definitely not going to be imposing on municipalities pilot projects that they don’t want. Further, as the member can see, in

section 304(3)(a)(i), “if the Lieutenant Governor in Council is satisfied that the municipality has authority to make bylaws…. ” But also that they are satisfied that there has been consent, that they are participating in this. [2:50 p.m.] We’re looking at doing this very much hand in hand with municipalities and working to see what it is that they want and how we can best make it work. M. Lee: I think I understand, in the context of municip- alities, what authority they would have to make bylaws. In 10188 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

the next provision, which relates to treaty First Nations…. In this area, knowing that we’re talking about pilot projects and recognizing the rights, of course, of First Nations to their ter- ritories on First Nation treaty lands, what will be the area of consent in respect of any overlapping rights that might exist between First Nations on treaty First Nation lands in respect of a pilot project? Hon. C. Trevena: Treaty First Nations have the same authority as municipalities do over their sidewalks and streets. It’ll be working the same way with the treaty First Nations as with municipalities. M.

Lee:In the interest of theNisg̱ a’a, which is referred to here as well, where there might be a dispute between First Nations on various access rights, is there a concern in terms of what level of consent the government would be seeking in that context? Hon. C. Trevena:I thank the member for these questions. It’s good to go right into the details of this. This would be something that we would be working through. We’re not specifying that in this piece of legislation. As I keep coming back to, it’s working. This is supposed to be a collaborative approach, working with treaty First Nations wherever they are.

If there is some conflict on jur- isdiction, we will work that through. We’re not going to be imposing this on any First Nations, nor on a municipality. We want to make sure that we’re working it through. That is going to be the approach — of absolute openness and dis- cussion. Sections 116 to 118 inclusive approved. Title approved. Hon. C. Trevena:I’ d like to thank everyone for their parti- cipation in the debate on Bill 35. There’s been a lot of discus- sion on both sides of the House about it. It embraces many important aspects, and it’s moving along our government’s agenda in many significant ways.

I know there have been a lot of questions from the oppos- ition in committee stage. We’re very pleased that we are able to make some changes that will really improve the lives of many people in B.C., whether it is in the field of social devel- opment or on our roads. With that, I move that the committee rise and report the bill complete with amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:54 p.m. The House resumed; Mr.

Speaker in the chair. [2:55 p.m.] Reporting of Bills BILL 35 — MISCELLANEOUS STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2019 Bill 35, Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act (No. 2), 2019, reported complete with amendment, to be considered at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. D. Eby: I call Committee of the Whole on Bill 36, the Gaming Control Amendment Act, 2019. Committee of the Whole House BILL 36 — GAMING CONTROL AMENDMENT ACT, 2019 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 36; J. Isaacs in the chair. The committee met at 3 p.m. On

section 1. J. Y ap:To the minister and staff, I look forward to the opportunity in committee stage to engage and try and get some questions answered. I know that my colleague the MLA for Vancouver-Langara will also have questions, as well as a number of other colleagues. With regard to the first section,

section 1, This

section increases the number of directors at British Columbia Lot- tery Corp. from nine to 11. Can the Attorney General provide an explanation of why this change is being contem- plated in Bill 36? Hon. D. Eby: I’m joined, on my left, by Rhea Wilson, the counsel with Indigenous legal relations. On my right is Doug Scott, ADM, Crowns. Behind me is Ranbir Parmar, corpor- ate services, Ministry of Indigenous Relations, and to my left, behind me, is Giovanni Puggioni. He was the chief negotiat- or on this. Thank you very much for staff being here to sup- port me in doing my best to assist the opposition and the Third Party with understanding the act and the provisions.

Section 1 does increase the Lottery Corp. board by two. The reason it’s two is to preserve an odd number of directors so that the board doesn’t get deadlocked into a tie. The reas- on to increase the board at all is because part of the nego- tiations was an agreement by government that if the B.C. First Nations Gaming Revenue Sharing Limited Partnership nominated a director, that director would be recommended to cabinet.

It would still be at cabinet’s discretion whether or not to approve that individual, but the expectation would be, gen- erally, that that person would then be appointed to the board so that there would be a representative of the partnership and of First Nations on the board of the B.C. Lottery Corp., Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10189

given the investment, essentially, that they have, now and in the future, in the operations of B.C. Lottery Corp. because of the revenue-sharing. J. Y ap:I appreciate the minister’s response.

Section 2.20 of the interim agreement lays out that the partnership will have the right to nominate a nominee, on behalf of the partnership, to the B.C. Lottery Corp. board. Can the Attorney General provide more details to the House on how this will work? Hon. D. Eby: The government is making available to the partnership the resources and supports of the board resourcing office in the provincial government so that if they need support in identifying candidates or ensuring that can- didates have the appropriate skills that the partnership is looking for, then that is available to them.

That person will be nominated by the partnership, will be recommended to cab- inet, and then the appointee on the board will be bringing their skills to fulfil the fiduciary obligations that the board has to the B.C. Lottery Corp. and, by extension, to the people of British Columbia. [3:05 p.m.] J. Y ap:Does the minister anticipate that the partnership will put forward a list of names that, through their process, they would like to nominate and that then it would be up to the board resourcing — and, ultimately, to cabinet — to pick from that list? Is that how the process will work? Hon. D.

Eby: Everyone’s understanding is that generally, there would be a single individual put forward, but there’s nothing stopping the partnership if they wish to put forward a list of names of nominees. They can do that, but the under- standing and expectation is that there’ d be one individual. J. Y ap:I just ask from the perspective of whether the min- ister or the government would be duty-bound to accept and appoint the name that is put forward if it were just one name.

Is that the expectation — that the government would accept the nomination if it’s just one name, in the potential scenario where the government may feel that the name put forward may not be suitable? Hon. D. Eby:Y ou can’t bind cabinet in that way. It’s cabin- et’s discretion whether or not to appoint any particular board member. However, I think the understanding that everybody has is that there’s going to be a very careful and thoughtful process on the partnership’s

part in identifying a candidate to recommend to government, and that would have consid- erable weight in the discussions of cabinet about whether or not to appoint that individual. J. Y ap:What would happen in the instance — potentially, if it occurred — where the minister responsible did not see fit to recommend the partnership’s nominee? Hon. D.

Eby: It’s difficult to have a significant discus- sion about hypotheticals, but I think if there were some sort of issue that came up, I would expect that the relation- ship between government and the partnership is such that there would be an active discussion back and forth about any concerns that were identified and that any concerns the government had identified would likely be shared by the partnership. In a scenario where, for some reason, government was concerned and the partnership wasn’t, the ultimate decision is cabinet’s.

Cabinet would make that decision, and if they decided not to approve a given candidate, for which discre- tion is preserved, then there would be a return back to the partnership for another nominee from the partnership for consideration. J. Y ap:From the minister’s response, which I appreciate, he’s affirming that it would be ultimately the discretion of the government, the executive council, to approve or not approve a nominee. Hon. D.

Eby:The candidate is recommended, nominated by the partnership and then recommended by the minister to cabinet, but cabinet maintains an ultimate discretion about whether or not to appoint that individual to the board. J. Y ap:Can the minister tell the House if any other Crown corporations have this type of arrangement where the Indi- genous community can nominate a director? Hon. D.

Eby: There was a bit of a brainstorming here to see if we could think of something that would be analog- ous, and we’ve identified the First Peoples Cultural Council, which puts forward candidates that they recommend to gov- ernment and that are then considered by cabinet. [3:10 p.m.] I think the record is appointed, but again, the discretion remains in cabinet on whether or not to appoint those nom- inees that come up from the council for the council’s board. J. Y ap:Just to follow through on that. What this

section endeavours to do — to add the opportunity for government to appoint an Indigenous director, nominated by the Indi- genous community…. This would not be precedent-setting. Can the minister confirm that? Hon. D. Eby:This is the only Crown we can think of that has a structure like this where a nominee is recommended by an Indigenous organization for appointment. So in that sense, it’s new. In the sense that cabinet retains ultimate dis- cretion whether or not to appoint the board member, it’s not new. That is the existing structure for appointment of board members for Crown corporations. J.

Y ap:I appreciate the minister’s response confirming that in terms of a Crown corporation of British Columbia, this is 10190 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

new. That being the case, can the minister advise this House what consultation was done to arrive at this decision to cre- ate this new structure? Hon. D. Eby: The First Nations Leadership group, which is the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, the B.C. Assembly of First Nations and the summit, together have an organization under their umbrella called the First Nations Gaming Com- mission.

The First Nations Gaming Commission had a sub- committee chaired by Grand Chief Joe Hall that was the lead negotiating group with the province for the agreement and for the structure of the agreement of how to move forward on this issue. Once an agreement and broad terms were arrived at, the council, the lawyers within the Ministry of Attorney Gener- al, were consulted to ensure that the process was structured so it would be consistent with law. The chair of the board of the B.C.

Lottery Corp. was consulted. [3:15 p.m.] The cabinet board resourcing office was engaged, as well, to ensure that we were structuring things properly. So there were a number of different technical sources of advice, as well as practical sources of advice. I think it’s safe to say that this process was a co-devel- opment process with First Nations groups in the province through their leadership organization, the leadership group, and the subcommittee. I wanted to thank Grand Chief Joe Hall and his team for their work with our team in arriving at these terms and coming to this historic agreement. J.

Y ap:I thank the minister for that. It sounds like the negotiations were undertaken with rep- resentatives of the leadership council. I’m wondering if the minister can advise if other stakeholders, other First Nations, were consulted on what was being contemplated. Hon. D. Eby: Engagement with First Nations communit- ies was led by the leadership council. In particular, we under- stand that the three entities that make up the leadership council — the Union of B.C.

Indian Chiefs, BCAFN and the First Nations Summit — went out to their membership through their structures and through their regional repres- entation groups to engage with First Nations communities across the province, taking feedback back up through their channels to the group to inform the discussion. My understanding is that on the First Nations side, there was quite a comprehensive engagement. Ultimately, the agreement was ratified by all three organizations of the lead- ership council — and, ultimately, we hope, by government, in passing this bill here today. J. Y ap:I appreciate that answer. I’m wondering….

In the spirit of nation-to-nation consultations, it sounds like the discussions were handled through the leadership council. It sounds like the minister is confirming that there were no direct consultations between the province and individual First Nations to get feedback on what was being proposed. Is that correct? Hon. D. Eby: This was a unique process in that it was a collaborative process with the First Nations Leadership Council.

We worked with them, and they designed a process to engage with First Nations groups across the province through their structures and how they wanted the engage- ment and the consultation with First Nations groups across the province to go ahead. Government supports that because we support self-deter- mination, and we support Indigenous people making decisions about issues that affect Indigenous people. That co- development process was very important to the entirety of this negotiation discussion and the agreement. It’s true that government did not co-design that process with….

Well, this was a process that was developed by the leadership council itself. We didn’t, then, take any steps to undermine that or to run a separate engagement with First Nations groups in the province. We had confidence in the ability of this Indigenous lead- ership group to make decisions affecting Indigenous people and engagement in the province. J. Y ap:I appreciate the minister’s response and his affirm- ation that there was certainly a reliance on the First Nations Leadership Council to undertake their process. He men- tioned a desire not to undermine their process.

I certainly appreciate that. [3:20 p.m.] Of course, we expect the government, the province, to approach these matters with great respect for First Nations and their processes. I wonder if the First Nations Summit, after the process was completed, shared the results of their consultation or their process with the minister as part of their discussions to arrive at this new governance structure. Hon. D. Eby: I can advise the member that there were a number of issues raised during second reading. One of those issues raised during second reading was consultation with First Nations across the province.

We received a response from the First Nations Gaming Commission to talk about what they did to engage with First Nations across the province. They wrote to us: “The consultation, which is extensive, has been coordinated through the Leadership Council and its delegate, the First Nations Gaming Commission. Discussions with government, which extended over many months, were led by the First Nations Gaming Commis- sion. “First Nations in British Columbia are entitled to participate as members of the Leadership Council’s three constituent political ter- ritorial organizations: the B.C.

Assembly of First Nations, the First Nations Summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs. All critical aspects of the gaming-revenue-sharing regime, including the distri- bution formula and ratification of the agreements themselves, have passed votes on the floors of the Chiefs and Assembly at the political territorial organizations. In addition to this, the agreements have Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10191

been ratified by the limited partners at the time they joined the lim- ited partnership. ” The limited partners, in this case, are the 203 First Nations of the province. “Consultation has been a coordinated effort and has included fully informing individual First Nations as to the key aspects of the reven- ue-sharing arrangements, seeking feedback and making a genuine ef- fort to respond to their concerns. ” J. Y ap:I appreciate the minister’s follow-up.

It sounds like there was a fairly extensive consultation process that the First Nations Summit or Leadership Council went through, enga- ging with their constituencies. I wonder if that process and its conclusion — perhaps the report — in the interests of transparency, was made public. If not public, was it made available to individual First Nations? Hon. D. Eby: We don’t believe that there’s any written report summarizing the consultations that we’re aware of. J. Y ap:Is this structure in place in any other Canadian jurisdiction?

I wonder if the minister can advise — in his due diligence, the staff review of this matter — whether this structure is in place in other provinces. [3:25 p.m.] Hon. D. Eby: In British Columbia, we have an example of a limited partnership structure that has been used before. It was actually set up under the previous government, the Pacific Trail pipelines partnership. It distributes revenue that comes from that project to 16 different First Nations that are limited partners. In Ontario, there is a limited partnership structure like this for distributing gaming.

We understand there has been litigation in Ontario in relation to the partnership, that it related to the commitment of the Ontario government to consider and appoint board members nominated by the lim- ited partnership and that Ontario, allegedly, did not do that. Our hope and expectation is that we will learn from the Ontario example and take seriously the nominations that are put forward by the partnership.

But otherwise, it seems to have worked very well in Ontario as a mechanism for distributing gaming revenue, which is likely why the First Nations Gaming Commission was supportive of and advoc- ated for establishing a partnership like this. J. Y ap:Does the government expect, with this being the first one, to add Indigenous-nominated directors to other Crown corps? Hon. D. Eby: We don’t currently have any plans for that. I will note that the government has made a significant effort to have more Indigenous representation on boards in the province, and if the member is interested, I’ll get him some numbers.

We’re quite proud of the Indigenous representation, especially…. The Minister for Advanced Education has done an exceptional job in ensuring Indigenous represent- ation on, if not every, almost every post-secondary board in the province, which is quite an accomplishment and long overdue. It’s government’s intent to continue to increase Indigenous representation on boards and in various appointments and employment and so on. So although we don’t have any plans to have a nomination process like this currently for any of the Crowns, it remain a focus of government. J.

Y ap:Why did the minister decide to add two directors rather than simply ensure that one of the current nine direct- ors would be replaced by an Indigenous nominated director so that there would be one in place? Was it actually necessary to increase the size of the board? Hon. D. Eby: We engaged with the chair of the B.C. Lot- tery Corp. to ask how the board was working. The chair identified for us that it would be preferable to add two pos- itions to increase the skill sets on the board rather than remove one of the current board members.

He felt that the board was working particularly well and that the perspect- ives brought by the two additional board members, includ- ing the nominee, would be very helpful to B.C. Lottery Corp’s operations and the board’s operations as it stood. J. Y ap:That being the case, with the board increasing, will the total remuneration going to the board, for directors, increase, as it increases the numbers from nine to 11? Hon. D. Eby: These board members will be remunerated in the same manner as any other board member on the B.C.

Lottery Corp. board — for expenses for travel, for various board-related events and a stipend for attendance at board meetings, these kinds of things. [3:30 p.m.] J. Y ap:I understand the rationale, and the minister has provided the background on the proposal to enhance Indi- genous representation on the Lottery Corp. board of dir- ectors. Indigenous peoples in British Columbia are not mono- lithic. They are diverse. I wonder how this reality of a very diverse community of First Nations will be addressed in the selection of this director. [R. Chouhan in the chair.] Hon. D.

Eby: The manner in which we hope to have a good representative of the partnership is through the structure that we’ve discussed, which is that the partner- ship will nominate someone that they feel is appropriate to represent the partnership’s perspectives on the B.C. Lot- tery Corp. board. I wanted to note that simply because there is one nominee 10192 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

that comes from the partnership who is likely to be an Indi- genous person — but not necessarily — that doesn’t mean that that would be, necessarily, the only Indigenous person on the B.C. Lottery Corp. board. We already do have one person of Indigenous heritage on the board. So it’s not like this is the only Indigenous representative that would neces- sarily be on the board. There may be other representatives. But the hope is that the partnership is able to identify repre- sentatives that best represent the perspectives of the partner- ship and its limited partners on the Lottery Corp. board. L.

Throness:I just have a few very general questions — I’m curious about the bill — that I would like to ask. The minister brought with him today an official who he announced as the chief negotiator on the bill and on items concerning the bill. We use words like “comprehensive engagement” and things like that. I’m wondering: in a more specific sense, how many meetings has the negotiator held with First Nations partners, over what kind of period? In particular, did the negotiator meet with individual First Nations, and if so, which ones? Hon. D.

Eby: I’m advised that there were literally dozens of meetings over about 15 or 16 months to arrive at the agreement. With respect to consultation with First Nations, this issue was raised during second reading, and we got in touch with the First Nations Gaming Commission, which wrote to us the following in relation to consultation with First Nations. The First Nations Gaming Commission led the engagement, which we thought was appropriate. “The consultation, which is extensive, has been coordinated through the leadership council and its delegate, the First Nations Gaming Commission.

Discussions with government, which extended over many months, were led by the First Nations Gaming Commis- sion. First Nations in British Columbia are entitled to participate as members of the leadership council’s three constituent political territ- orial organizations: the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the First Na- tions Summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs. “ All critical aspects of the gaming revenue-sharing regime, includ- ing the distribution formula and ratification of the agreements them- selves, have passed votes on the floors of the Chiefs and assembly at the political territorial organizations.

In addition to this, the agree- ments have been ratified by the limited partners, which are the First Nations of British Columbia — there are 203 of them — at the time they joined the limited partnership. “Consultation has been a coordinated effort and has included fully informing individual First Nations as to the key aspects of the reven- ue-sharing arrangements, seeking feedback and making a genuine ef- fort to respond to their concerns. ” L. Throness:I’m wondering: specifically, did the negoti- ator negotiate all aspects of the bill with the representatives of the First Nations?

And in particular, did he negotiate the partnership agreement with individual First Nations? [3:35 p.m.] Hon. D. Eby:As I understand it, the agreement was nego- tiated with — I’ll take the member to the top of the structure — the leadership council, which is the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs. They have representation on the leadership council. Then they have an organization called the First Nations Gaming Commission, which is under the umbrella of the leadership council. That First Nations Gaming Commission had a subcommittee chaired by Grand Chief Joe Hall.

The negotiation proper was with this subcommittee of the First Nations Gaming Commission. That was the group that gov- ernment was negotiating with and developing this in part- nership with. L. Throness:Just one more question for the minister. I would just point out that negotiations were with represen- tatives of First Nations, but the funding disbursement for- mula of 50 percent, 40 percent and 10 percent to remote First Nations was not negotiated with remote First Nations per se. What was the feedback?

How was this formula — the dis- bursement formula where only 10 percent goes to remote First Nations, which are perhaps the most needy First Nations…? How was that 10 percent arrived at? Hon. D. Eby:Just to ensure that the member has the same understanding that I do in terms of the distribution here, First Nations…. The money itself is divided into three pots. There’s a 50 percent pot, so there’s half the money. Then there’s a 40 percent pot. And then there’s a 10 percent pot. A rural or remote community can draw from all three of these allocations of money.

The 50 percent is divided equally among all First Nations. The 40 percent allocation is divided on the basis of popula- tion, so they would get a share of that population distribu- tion as well. Then an additional 10 percent of the total only goes to rural and remote First Nations communities, and it is allocated accordingly. So it’s not like only 10 percent of the money goes to rural and remote communities. There is a special supplementary fund only available to rural and remote communities, and that is in addition to the shared distribution and the popula- tion distribution.

With that understanding, I think it’s important to recog- nize that the engagement with First Nations, including rural and remote First Nations, took place through the leadership council and through the three entities, leadership groups, that partnered together in the leadership council.

These three groups had meetings at which the revenue-sharing regime, including the distribution formula, had to pass a vote on the floors of their Chiefs and assembly at the various political territorial organizations. [3:40 p.m.] They advised us that there was a coordinated effort that included fully informing individual First Nations about the key aspects of revenue-sharing arrangements, seeking their feedback and making a genuine effort to amend or address or respond to their concerns. L. Throness:This simply provokes one more question that Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10193

I must ask. We have a few very wealthy First Nations in B.C. Westbank is the most wealthy First Nation in Canada. We think of Tsawwassen. Westbank, I think, has some 500 busi- nesses on its properties, and it will receive the same amount in base funding, 50 percent. That’s $250,000 a year for the next 25 years, the same amount as a remote First Nation. I don’t know what the population is, but Westbank probably has a larger population, because it is more wealthy. So it will receive a larger share there. I’m wondering why only 10 percent is hived off for a remote community.

Why wouldn’t it be more than that and distributed more on the basis of need rather than on the basis of entitlement? Hon. D. Eby: I think it’s important for the member to at least hear, if not agree with, the approach of government in this, how this distribution formula was arrived at and why it’s part of the agreement. Government made a commitment that this would be something that First Nations would determine for them- selves, that government wouldn’t be imposing a formula upon First Nations, that we wouldn’t decide what was best for First Nations.

This would be First Nations making a decision about their own future, and the leadership groups would be accountable to their own communities. That was the approach of self-determination. That was the approach that government decided to take. That is the for- mula that the First Nations arrived at through their intern- al processes, and that formed a key part of the discussion — co-development in negotiation of this agreement. Sounds like the member has a different idea about how money could be distributed and what criteria he would use to determine who would get how much money. But it’s not about him.

It’s about First Nations and about their own decisions about how the money should be distributed. L. Throness:Y et one more question. I notice that the dis- bursement formula is not in the act. It is on the govern- ment’s website. I’m wondering what the authority is for the disbursement formula. I’m wondering if that formula could change, if it’s not part of the act, and how it would change, if it were to change. Hon. D. Eby: I have a two-part answer. The first part responds to the member’s previous question, and the second part responds to his most recent question. The B.C.

First Nations Gaming Commission provided some responses to some of the issues that were raised in second reading, and the issues the member raised were among those issues they responded to. I think it’s probably best for him to hear directly from the commission about their decision-making process and the revenue-sharing arrangement flexibility. They write that the initial distribution formula includes a 50 percent base share split equally among eligible First Nations, a 40 percent share based on population and a 10 percent share based on remoteness.

As a starting point, First Nations modelled the distribu- tion formula after Ontario’s formula and modified it to suit our particular needs. The initial distribution formula was ratified by First Nations in assembly at the three political ter- ritorial organizations.

Now, on the issue of flexibility around the formula: “Significant flexibility is built into the revenue-sharing arrange- ments to permit the distribution formula to evolve over time, for the weighting to change and to include other factors as experience is gained. [3:45 p.m.] “Going forward, the formula will be determined by First Nations to provide weighting of the existing criteria or addition of criteria.

The initial distribution formula will be reviewed after a three-year period to assess whether it is meeting the needs and interests of First Nations. “ A review can also be initiated at any time by the province, the partnership or the political territorial organizations, pursuant to the periodic review mechanism built into the revenue-sharing agreement or initiated by limited partners themselves in accordance with the partnership governance mechanisms. ” E. Ross: To the Attorney General: thank you for those answers. I just want to follow up on some of the criteria, in terms of who is eligible for this funding.

I was led to believe, based on the statements I heard in this House, that there was a consultation with 203 bands — or 199 bands, whatever that number may be. There was nothing said in this House to dis- count that, so I was actually impressed that an agreement was made with 203 bands. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it hap- pen in B.C. Just to clarify, the leadership council is…. Y ou’re cor- rect. It’s made up of three organizations — Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, Assembly of First Nations of B.C., and chief negotiators, which is the summit.

But in either case, none of these organizations really represent communities at the ground level. The summit is made up of, actually, chief negotiators who are in the treaty process. So those bands that aren’t in the treaty process aren’t actually a part of the summit. It’s actu- ally a voluntary thing. Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs is actually membership-driven. Same thing: if they don’t have a mem- bership, they’re not a part of it. Assembly of First Nations is elected by chiefs and councils who choose to participate. I understand this bill is intended to transfer money to communities that could really use it.

I just want to clarify two things. Did the government rely fully on the leadership council to consult with 203 bands? If so, was the government aware of any specific process that ensured each band was consulted in a meaningful manner? Hon. D. Eby: I worry that members may not be catching all of the discussion around this. So I feel like I’m repeating myself. But at the risk of repeating…. It’s better to repeat 10194 British Columbia Debates Wednesday, October 23, 2019

myself and ensure all members have a clear understanding than not. This specific issue was raised with the First Nations Gam- ing Commission. They wrote to government to share what their process was. They write: “The consultation, which is extensive, has been coordinated through the leadership council and its delegate, the Gaming Com- mission.

Discussions with government, which extended over many months, were led by the First Nations Gaming Commission. “First Nations in British Columbia are entitled to participate as members of the leadership council’s three constituent political territ- orial organizations — the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the First Nations Summit and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs.

All critical aspects of the gaming revenue-sharing regime, including the distri- bution formula and ratification of the agreements themselves, have passed votes on the floors of the Chiefs and assembly at the political territorial organizations. “In addition to this, the agreements have been ratified by the lim- ited partners, which are all 203 First Nations, at the time they joined the limited partnership.

Consultation has been a coordinated effort and has included fully informing individual First Nations as to the key aspects of the revenue-sharing arrangements, seeking feedback and making a genuine effort to respond to their concerns. ” [3:50 p.m.] I can also tell the member that in terms of which nations are eligible to join the limited partnership and to participate in this and eligible B.C. First Nations include Indian bands, treaty First Nations, self-governing First Nations established by statute.

There are also provisions that would allow new Indian bands, new treaty First Nations and new self-govern- ing First Nations established by statute to the list. There are also provisions that allow an eligible First Nation to identi- fy another entity in the event there are name changes or that First Nations adopt or change their governance structures. J. Rustad:Thank you for the answer to the question.

Having had the opportunity to work with the three leader- ship councils and with the bands, one thing that I have heard very clearly from the bands is that the leadership councils do not have the authority to make decisions on behalf of the bands. Unless there’s a specific band council resolution that has gone from a band to the leadership groups, they don’t have the authority to be able to enter into these types of agreements on behalf of the bands. What’s more concerning is that with many of these meet- ings, whether it’s the AFN, the B.C. Assembly of First Nations, the Union of B.C.

Indian Chiefs or the B.C. summit, more often than not there is rather low participation at their quarterly meetings. I guess the question to the minister is: what authority did the leadership councils, the three leadership groups, have to enter into this agreement and to commit to this agreement on behalf of the bands? Hon. D. Eby: It may be that the member doesn’t fully appreciate the structure. What has been established here is a limited partnership. All 203 First Nations are eligible to become limited partners in the partnership.

They are able, once they become partners, to shape the policy within the organization. The partnership is not the leadership council. The partnership is a separate entity called the B.C. First Nations Gaming Revenue Sharing Limited Partnership. It’s not the leadership council. Our understanding, as of about a couple of weeks ago, is there were 170 bands or nations that have signed up as lim- ited partners. J. Rustad:Thanks for that answer. The question wasn’t so much the limited partnership and the signing-up of the nations as part of that. The question is the terms which had been defined.

The splits, these components that have been established between the leadership council and those three entities and the Crown…. The nations did not sign on to that. The nations only have an opportunity to sign onto the limited partnership, thereby giving their authority to that. The nations themselves were never consulted directly with that component — by government, that is. I have spoken with many First Nation Chiefs. All had the same thing. First of all, they were surprised. They didn’t real- ize the formula. They didn’t realize the structure and restric- tion.

They didn’t realize the cost structure associated with it. Certainly, they have not in any way agreed in advance to that structure that was set up and organized. I understand the signing on in terms of the limited partnership, but there was not engagement in there. [3:55 p.m.] Once again, I ask the question: how did those terms come up and be put in place, and where does the authority lie with the leadership groups that were part of the negotiations? I’ll ultimately put the question to the floor. Where did that authority lie rather than the bands themselves? Hon. D. Eby:The member sets up a difficult scenario.

He doesn’t agree with the leadership council. He doesn’t agree with the leadership council’s participation because he doesn’t feel it’s adequately representative. He doesn’t support a lim- ited partnership where every nation has equal opportunity to participate as a limited partner. I don’t know what he’s suggesting in terms of what an appropriate structure would be. But every member nation gets to participate equally in the limited partnership.

With respect to the structures, the First Nations Gaming Commission writes, and he may have missed this: “Significant flexibility is built into the revenue-sharing arrange- ments to permit the distribution formula to evolve over time, for the weighting to change and to include other factors as experience is gained. “Going forward, the formula will be determined by First Nations, and it will be by those First Nations who are limited partners, to provide weighting of the existing criteria or the addition of criteria.

The initial distribution formula will be reviewed after a three-year period to assess whether it is meeting the needs and interest of First Nations. “ A review can also be initiated at any time by the province, the partnership and the political and territorial organizations, pursuant to the periodic review mechanism built into the revenue-sharing Wednesday, October 23, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10195

agreement or initiated by the limited partners themselves in accord- ance with the partnership governance mechanisms. ” I don’t think anybody is saying that this is going to be per- fect right out of the gate. They’re saying, very clearly, that there’s flexibility built in so that the partnership can deter- mine for itself, going forward, whether things need to be reweighted, new additional criteria. These reviews can be initiated at any time. If the member is saying, “This doesn’t seem to be perfect, ” he’s right.

But it’s a very good start, and it creates this struc- ture that enables the discussions that will take place to refine the formulas as necessary as determined by Indigenous people themselves, as determined by the limited partners in the partnership going forward. M. Lee: I appreciate the level of the discussion here and the opportunity to join my colleagues to understand the interim agreement that was negotiated between the govern- ment and the First Nations Summit, the B.C. Assembly of First Nations and the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs.

I heard the Attorney General indicate the status on the current 198 eligible First Nations that are spelled out or listed in the

schedule to this agreement and recognize, as I under- stand, there are 170 that have currently signed up. The concern that the member for Nechako Lakes is relay- ing here is that we have an agreement that government nego- tiated on an interim basis to effectively cover two fiscal years of government. Through the amendments under this bill, we’re now looking at an opportunity for government to con- tinue with the framework that was put in place, effectively, with the leadership council.

For the reasons that the member for Skeena also dis- cussed, there are considerations around whether there has been an appropriate level of consultation and an oppor- tunity for each of the First Nations — 203 bands in this province — to have had

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20191023pm-Hansard-n279
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20191023pm Hansard n279
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8c275e232ec559c07584d634c4d8a9e4d616eb59

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