Province of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Alberta Hansard Monday, March 9, 2009 Issue 11 The Honourable Kenneth R. Kowalski, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 27th Legislature Second Session Kowalski, Hon. Ken, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock, Speaker Cao, Wayne C.N., Calgary-Fort, Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees Mitzel, Len, Cypress-Medicine Hat, Deputy Chair of Committees Ady, Hon. Cindy, Calgary-Shaw (PC), Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Allred, Ken, St.

Albert (PC) Amery, Moe, Calgary-East (PC) Anderson, Rob, Airdrie-Chestermere (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Solicitor General and Public Security Benito, Carl, Edmonton-Mill Woods (PC) Berger, Evan, Livingstone-Macleod (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Sustainable Resource Development Bhardwaj, Naresh, Edmonton-Ellerslie (PC) Bhullar, Manmeet Singh, Calgary-Montrose (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Advanced Education and Technology Blackett, Hon.

Lindsay, Calgary-North West (PC), Minister of Culture and Community Spirit Blakeman, Laurie, Edmonton-Centre (L), Deputy Leader of the Official Opposition Official Opposition House Leader Boutilier, Guy C., Fort McMurray-Wood Buffalo (PC) Brown, Dr. Neil, QC, Calgary-Nose Hill (PC) Calahasen, Pearl, Lesser Slave Lake (PC) Campbell, Robin, West Yellowhead (PC), Deputy Government Whip Chase, Harry B., Calgary-Varsity (L), Official Opposition Whip Dallas, Cal, Red Deer-South (PC) Danyluk, Hon. Ray, Lac La Biche-St.

Paul (PC), Minister of Municipal Affairs DeLong, Alana, Calgary-Bow (PC) Denis, Jonathan, Calgary-Egmont (PC) Doerksen, Arno, Strathmore-Brooks (PC) Drysdale, Wayne, Grande Prairie-Wapiti (PC) Elniski, Doug, Edmonton-Calder (PC) Evans, Hon. Iris, Sherwood Park (PC), Minister of Finance and Enterprise Fawcett, Kyle, Calgary-North Hill (PC) Forsyth, Heather, Calgary-Fish Creek (PC) Fritz, Hon. Yvonne, Calgary-Cross (PC), Minister of Housing and Urban Affairs Goudreau, Hon.

Hector G., Dunvegan-Central Peace (PC), Minister of Employment and Immigration Griffiths, Doug, Battle River-Wainwright (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Agriculture and Rural Development Groeneveld, Hon. George, Highwood (PC), Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Hancock, Hon. Dave, QC, Edmonton-Whitemud (PC), Minister of Education, Government House Leader Hayden, Hon. Jack, Drumheller-Stettler (PC), Minister of Infrastructure Hehr, Kent, Calgary-Buffalo (

L) Horne, Fred, Edmonton-Rutherford (PC) Horner, Hon. Doug, Spruce Grove-Sturgeon-St. Albert (PC), Minister of Advanced Education and Technology Jablonski, Hon. Mary Anne, Red Deer-North (PC), Minister of Seniors and Community Supports Jacobs, Broyce, Cardston-Taber-Warner (PC) Johnson, Jeff, Athabasca-Redwater (PC) Johnston, Art, Calgary-Hays (PC) Kang, Darshan S., Calgary-McCall (

L) Klimchuk, Hon. Heather, Edmonton-Glenora (PC), Minister of Service Alberta Knight, Hon. Mel, Grande Prairie-Smoky (PC), Minister of Energy Leskiw, Genia, Bonnyville-Cold Lake (PC) Liepert, Hon. Ron, Calgary-West (PC), Minister of Health and Wellness Lindsay, Hon. Fred, Stony Plain (PC), Solicitor General and Minister of Public Security Lukaszuk, Thomas A., Edmonton-Castle Downs (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Municipal Affairs Lund, Ty, Rocky Mountain House (PC) MacDonald, Hugh, Edmonton-Gold Bar (

L) Marz, Richard, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (PC) Mason, Brian, Edmonton-Highlands-Norwood (NDP), Leader of the NDP Opposition McFarland, Barry, Little Bow (PC) McQueen, Diana, Drayton Valley-Calmar (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Environment Morton, Hon. F.L., Foothills-Rocky View (PC), Minister of Sustainable Resource Development Notley, Rachel, Edmonton-Strathcona (NDP), Deputy Leader of the NDP Opposition, NDP Opposition House Leader Oberle, Frank, Peace River (PC), Government Whip Olson, Verlyn, QC, Wetaskiwin-Camrose (PC) Ouellette, Hon.

Luke, Innisfail-Sylvan Lake (PC), Minister of Transportation Pastoor, Bridget Brennan, Lethbridge-East (L), Deputy Official Opposition Whip Prins, Ray, Lacombe-Ponoka (PC) Quest, Dave, Strathcona (PC) Redford, Hon. Alison M., QC, Calgary-Elbow (PC), Minister of Justice and Attorney General Renner, Hon. Rob, Medicine Hat (PC), Minister of Environment, Deputy Government House Leader Rodney, Dave, Calgary-Lougheed (PC) Rogers, George, Leduc-Beaumont-Devon (PC) Sandhu, Peter, Edmonton-Manning (PC) Sarich, Janice, Edmonton-Decore (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Education Sherman, Dr.

Raj, Edmonton-Meadowlark (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Health and Wellness Snelgrove, Hon. Lloyd, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC), President of the Treasury Board Stelmach, Hon. Ed, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (PC), Premier, President of Executive Council Stevens, Hon. Ron, QC, Calgary-Glenmore (PC), Deputy Premier, Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (L), Leader of the Official Opposition Taft, Dr. Kevin, Edmonton-Riverview (

L) Tarchuk, Hon. Janis, Banff-Cochrane (PC), Minister of Children and Youth Services Taylor, Dave, Calgary-Currie (

L) VanderBurg, George, Whitecourt-Ste. Anne (PC) Vandermeer, Tony, Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview (PC) Weadick, Greg, Lethbridge-West (PC) Webber, Len, Calgary-Foothills (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Energy Woo-Paw, Teresa, Calgary-Mackay (PC) Xiao, David H., Edmonton-McClung (PC), Parliamentary Assistant, Employment and Immigration Zwozdesky, Hon. Gene, Edmonton-Mill Creek (PC), Minister of Aboriginal Relations, Deputy Government House Leader Officers and Officials of the Legislative Assembly Clerk W.J. David McNeil Clerk Assistant/ Director of House Services Louise J.

Kamuchik Clerk of Journals/Table Research Micheline S. Gravel Senior Parliamentary Counsel Robert H. Reynolds, QC Senior Parliamentary Counsel Shannon Dean Sergeant-at-Arms Brian G. Hodgson Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms J. Ed Richard Assistant Sergeant-at-Arms William C. Semple Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Liz Sim

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 271 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Monday, March 9, 2009 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. Monday, March 9, 2009 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon. Welcome back. Let us pray. We give thanks for Your abundant blessings to our province and to ourselves. We ask for Your guidance with our deliberations in our Chamber and the will to follow it. Amen. Hon. members and ladies and gentlemen, we’ll now be led in the singing of our national anthem by Mr. Paul Lorieau. I would invite all here to join in and to participate in the language of one’s choice. Hon.

Members: O Canada, our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, We stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. The Speaker: Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation. Mrs. Ady: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly the consul general of Greece, Mr. Georgios Ayfantis.

Mr. Ayfantis is on his first official visit to Alberta, and I was pleased to be able to host a lunch with him today. As he pointed out, one thing we do share is that we’re both great places for tourism. With the weather outside I know the hon. members would like to perhaps be visiting Greece today. There are almost 12,000 Albertans of Hellenic descent, and they help enrich the Alberta culture. Every summer Calgary holds a Greek festival to promote Hellenic culture with food, dance, and music. I’d ask Mr. Ayfantis to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon.

Minister of Employment and Immigration. Mr. Goudreau: Merci, M. le Président. Aujourd'hui j'ai le privilège de présenter en votre nom, à vous et à l'Assemblée, des leaders de la communauté francophone de l'Alberta. Ils ont participé ce matin à la cérémonie dans la rotonde de la Législature à l'occasion des Rendez-vous de la Francophonie, une célébration nationale annuelle de l'histoire et de la culture françaises. Je suis heureux de vous présenter les membres exécutifs de l'Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta. L'association, connue sous l'acronyme l’ACFA, est l'organisme porte-parole des francophones.

L'ACFA a son bureau provincial à Edmonton et chapeaute 14 bureaux régionaux ou cercles locaux à travers la province. Le gouvernement de l'Alberta est fier de la relation positive qu'il a construite avec l'ACFA, et ensemble nous sommes engagés à améliorer le bien-être et l'autonomie des francophones en Alberta. Présents parmi nous aujourd'hui sont Mme Dolorèse Nolette, vice-présidente de l'ACFA, représentante du nord-ouest; Mme Jeanne Robinson et Reed Gauthier, représentants du nord-est; Mme Carole Anne Patenaude; représentante de la région du centre, Mme Omayra Issa; et M. Denis Perreaux, directeur général.

Les accompagnants pour cette journée spéciale à la Législature sont M. Denis Tardif, Cindie LeBlanc, et Manon Hamel, membres de mon équipe au Secrétariat francophone. Je leur demanderais de se lever et être reconnus par l'Assemblée. Je vous invite à vous joindre à moi pour leur souhaiter une bienvenue chaleureuse. Merci, M. le Président. [Translation] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I have the privilege of introducing to you and through you to Members of the Legislative Assembly a number of leaders from Alberta's franco- phone community who participated this morning in a ceremony in the Legislature rotunda as part of Les Rendez-vous de la Franco- phonie, a national two-week celebration of French culture and history. I am pleased to introduce executive members of the French Canadian Association of Alberta. The association, commonly known as the ACFA, is the provincial organization representing all francophones.

The ACFA has a provincial secretariat in Edmonton and 14 regional, or affiliate, chapters across the province. The Alberta government is proud of the positive relations it has built with the ACFA and commits to supporting initiatives that will enhance the well-being and self-reliance of French-speaking Albertans. I would ask our guests to stand as I introduce them: Vice-President Mrs. Dolorèse Nolette, represen ting the northwest; Mrs. Jeanne Robinson and Reed Gauthier, representing the northeast; Mrs. Carole-Anne Patenaude; representing the central region, Mrs. Omayra Issa; accompanied by Director General Mr.

Denis Perreaux. Also joining them on this special day at the Legislature are members of my staff at the Francophone Secretariat: Mr. Denis Tardif, executive director; Ms Cindie LeBlanc, assistant director; Ms Manon Hamel, community liaison officer for southern Alberta. I would ask all of the members of the Assembly to give these guests a very warm welcome to our Legislature. [As submitted] The Speaker: Hon. members, today is also Commonwealth Day. All hon. members will have on their desks a message from Her Majesty the Queen, head of the Commonwealth. Dr. Brown: Mr.

Speaker, today we celebrate the 60th anniversary of the Commonwealth, which is comprised of 53 member states and over a third of the world’s population. I’d like to introduce to you and all members of the Assembly three directors of the Edmonton branch of the Royal Commonwealth Society of Canada who are seated in your gallery. These individuals work diligently in carrying out the important work of the society in Alberta and across the globe. They are Major Alexander Tsang, Mrs. Sheri Paquette, and Reverend Joshua Phillpotts.

I’d ask that they now rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the House. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. the Premier. Mr. Stelmach: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly a young gentleman with a genuine interest in Alberta politics, and that is Mr. Dawson Wikkerink. He is seated in the members’ gallery. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Dawson on several occasions both in Lethbridge and in Raymond.

Dawson and his family, Wayne and Anne and his brother J.R., live and farm just 15 kilometres outside of Lethbridge. Dawson is currently in grade

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009272 3 at Fleetwood Bawden school and has been a keen follower of our political process. In fact, when it’s his turn for sharing with his classmates, he provides regular updates of our political processes, including both the recent leadership and the general election. I know that farming is in Dawson’s blood, and so is politics. A memory that I will always cherish.

I had made a comment to the media when I was in Lethbridge, correctly put by the media, that we sold our cow herd and that I kind of missed early spring, you know, when the calves are running around the field with tails up in the air, really spirited. He was kind enough to send me a picture to my office of their first-born calf last year. Dawson, I would welcome you and your dad, Wayne Wikkerink. Please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s a pleasure for me today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a wonderful group of 37 grade 6 students from Brander Gardens elementary school, located in my constituency of Edmonton-Whitemud. Accompanying the students are their teachers, Natalie Gago-Esteves and Daniel Lemieux, along with teacher aide Mrs. Carroll. They are seated in the public gallery, and I would ask them to please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. Mr.

Speaker, it’s also my pleasure to introduce to you and through you today a number of Alberta Education employees whose innovative work on Speak Out, the Alberta student engagement initiative, has gained momentum across Alberta and high praise with education stakeholders, parents, the media, and, most importantly, the students themselves.

Seated in the members’ gallery and representing Alberta Education are Jennifer Keller, director of student engagement; Litzy Baeza, manager of student engagement; Sandra Dyal, Speak Out forums co-ordinator; Jamie Stewart, co- ordinator of student engagement; and Greg Kuzniuk, public affairs officer. These fine individuals are responsible for motivating Alberta’s youth to participate in an ongoing province-wide forum on education, and they deserve the appreciation of the Assembly and all Albertans for raising the level of discussion in an engagement of our students.

I’d ask them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Athabasca-Redwater. Mr. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two groups to introduce today. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly a group of 32 visitors from Boyle school, who are in all week for the School at the Leg. They are led by their parents and teachers Emily Thomson, Tracey Currie, Bonnie Antal, Karen Douglas, Cheryl Snyder, Curtis Gunderson, Dale Bencharsky, and grandpa Tom Ghostkeeper, who worked in this building for five years.

I believe they’re in the members’ gallery behind me, and I’d ask that they rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. 1:40 Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I’d also like to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly 14 visitors from the New Horizons seniors’ club in Radway: Allan and Cecilia Holt, Norm West, Esther West, Lena Chykerda, Helen Kuchmak, Mike Halun, Alphie Delorme, Martha Delorme, Joy Langley, Nick Kuchmak, Harold Moffitt, Nestor Buryn, and Ruby Burkosky.

They will be entering and leaving during question period, but I’d like to acknowl- edge their presence here today and welcome them to the Legislature. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Mr. Elniski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I have the privilege of introducing to you and through you to the Members of the Legislative Assembly a number of very special guests from my constituency.

They sang for us here this morning during the symbolic Franco-Albertan flag-raising ceremony in the Legislature rotunda as part of Les Rendez-vous de la Francophonie, the national two-week celebration of French culture and history. It is with great pleasure that I introduce the grade 6 students from l’école Père- Lacombe, who I believe are in the public gallery: teacher M. Mathieu Brosseau-Tremblay and parent helpers Mme Lise Roy- Maxwell and Mme Adeline Viens. I’d ask them all to please stand and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung.

Mr. Xiao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a great pleasure to rise today to introduce to you and through you to this House 24 very brilliant students from Patricia Heights elementary school and from my constituency of Edmonton-McClung. Accompanying them is their teacher, Mrs. Beverly Oldford, and parents Mrs. Angela McEwen, Mrs. Lisa Hamdon, Mrs. Tina Choucair, and Mrs. Krista Leddy. I’d ask them to please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this House. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education and Technology. Mr. Horner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today with two introductions. My first is to introduce to you and through you to the members of this Assembly two representatives from the University of Calgary: Mr. Gary Durbeniuk and Mr. Brian Wik. Gary is the vice-president of development at the University of Calgary. In 2007-08 his department raised over $82 million to support scholar- ships, bursaries, research, and new learning spaces at the University of Calgary. Brian Wik, University of Calgary’s senior director of government relations, is responsible for maintaining effective working relationships with the provincial government.

I would like to thank them both for their ongoing commitment to the University of Calgary and to students in Alberta and abroad. They’re seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon. I would ask that they please rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. It is also an honour for me to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly members of the Council of Alberta University Students, or CAUS. They are an advisory group of presidents and vice-presidents of students’ unions from universities around the province who are meeting with the members of the Assembly all this week.

They are seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon, and I would ask that they would each stand as I call their name to receive the warm welcome of the Assembly.

They are Beverly Eastham, CAUS chair and recently re-elected vice-president external at the University of Alberta; Jenn Prosser, CAUS vice-chair and U of L Students’ Union vice-president academic; Janelle Morin, University of Alberta Students’ Union president; Dalmy Baez, University of Calgary Students’ Union president; Alastair MacKin- non, University of Calgary Students’ Union vice-president external; Lauren Webber, recently elected as external commissioner at the University of Calgary and daughter of the Member for Calgary- Foothills; Adam Vossepoel, Univer sity of Lethbridge Students’ Union president; Kendall Yamagishi, University of Lethbridge

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 273 Students’ Union academic commissioner; and Duncan Wojtaszek, executive director of CAUS. They are now standing in the mem- bers’ gallery, and I’d ask that you give them the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont. Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my honour to rise today and introduce to you and through you to the members of this Assembly Mr. Stanley Swensen, seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon. Mr. Swensen is a memorial counsellor for Remco Memorials in Didsbury, in the constituency of Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills.

He earned his doctorate of veterinary medicine in 1971 from Western College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Saskatchewan. What a great school. He is also a graduate of Rocky Mountain College, biblical studies, where he earned his bachelor of arts in education. He and his wife, Linda, have two daughters, Cynthia Dawn and Amanda Jane. He’s joining us today to get a better look at how things operate in this Legislature. I’d ask that Mr. Swensen please rise and accept the warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. President of the Treasury Board. Mr. Snelgrove: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my privilege today to introduce to you and all members of the Assembly one of the true statesmen of Alberta business, chairman of the board of the ATCO Group of companies, truly a family that shares with many, many communities in Alberta. It’s my pleasure to introduce Mr. Ron Southern. Would Ron stand and please accept the warm, traditional welcome of this Assembly? The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It’s an honour to rise and introduce to you and through you to all hon. members of this Legislative Assembly my brother John MacDonald and his wife, Pam MacDonald. John is a farmer, and Pam is a teacher. They’re visiting Alberta for an entire week. Last week they were in Calgary to attend the annual meeting of the Canadian Horticultural Council. John is a past president of that council. They are proud parents of three children. They’re expecting their first grandchild at the end of May, and they’re very much looking forward to being grandparents. They have already risen. They are in the public gallery.

I would now ask that hon. members give them the warm, traditional welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many brave and determined people come through the galleries to watch the proceedings, none more brave or determined than those I’m going to introduce to you today and to all members of the Assembly. First is Lorna Chandler, whose husband died in a farm accident. The fatality was the subject of a recent i nquiry. I’d ask Lorna to stand. Second is Philippa Thomas, who is here with her husband, Bruce.

Philippa is perma- nently disabled because of a farm accident. With them are two tireless crusaders on this issue, Eric Musekamp and Darlene Dunlop. I’d ask them all to rise. Please give them a warm reception. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Norwood. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to rise today to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly two engaged and concerned citizens of our province who I met with earlier today and who have presented additional signatures to a petition originally presented to the Legislature in August of 2006.

My guests are Mrs. Diane Martin, president of the Alberta Lymph- edema Association, and Mrs. Theresa Storm, a Calgarian who suffers from primary lymphedema. Earlier today I met with Diane and Theresa to discuss the closing of the only clinic in southern Alberta which treats non cancer-related lymphedema patients. I want to thank these two individuals for coming to the Legislature to raise their concerns today. I would now ask that they both rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today I have as my guests seven individuals representing Women in Black Edmonton, an organization that opposes violence in all its forms, whether it be in the home, in our communities or cities, or full-scale military action. In 1975 the United Nations proclaimed March 8 to be International Women’s Day, a day on which women around the world should commemorate their struggles and celebrate their achievements in attaining justice and equality for women throughout the world. Women in Black Edmonton were the recipients of the Salvos peace award from Project Ploughshares for 2006.

My guests are seated in the members’ gallery and I would ask them to rise as I call their names: Marilyn Gaa, Sarah Miller, Susan MacEachran, Jean Ure, Anna Radyo, Peggy Folinsbee, and Barbara Sykes. I would ask that they now receive the traditional warm welcome from this Assembly. 1:50head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Provincial Borrowing Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the midst of a boom Alberta was spending 23 per cent more per capita than the national average.

Now, in the midst of a bust, the Premier is thinking about taking out a loan rather than taking a serious look at the rampant, often wasteful spending this PC government has gotten so used to. To the Premier. Never mind the great rates at the bank. The fact is that putting Alberta back into debt is against the law in this province. Is the Premier planning to do away with the Fiscal Responsibility Act? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is picking up on a headline that was in the Edmonton Journal following a discussion I had with a financial analyst Sunday morning.

I put forward the situation where the province of Alberta has a triple-A credit rating – we can’t have a better credit rating than the country of Canada, so we will always stay at the triple-A credit rating – and we also have $6 billion cash in the bank to spend on capital. My simple question was that if we were to borrow against the $6 billion, keep that cash in the bank but borrow against it at very reasonable rates or even still borrow cheaper than what we’re getting for return in interest on the cash in the bank, why wouldn’t we do it? To me, I think that’s a good business decision. Mr. Taylor: Gee, Mr.

Speaker, I don’t know. Maybe because it’s illegal. If Alberta is going to be taking out loans, does that mean there

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009274 isn’t enough in the sustainability fund and the capital acc ount to cover your expenses, Mr. Premier? Mr. Stelmach: Well, first of all, they’re not my expenses; it’s providing programs for people in this province. The sustainability fund is different. Again, this is not truly the whole understanding of the opposition. There are two funds that we have in the bank: capital, which is for construction of infrastructure – roads, schools, hospitals – and the sustainability fund, which is in place to cushion the dramatic drop in the price of oil and gas. Ms Blakeman: We know what it is.

It was our idea. Mr. Stelmach: Well, if it was your idea, then you should know more about it. What happens is that the sustainability fund stays in place, and we will draw on those savings as necessary if oil and gas prices do not increase over the next year or two, and the reason being that we always were clear with Albertans. This is like putting money between the mattresses. We’ll draw on it when our revenue drops. That’s very good planning, and the only jurisdiction in North America that actually has cash in the bank to do that. Mr. Taylor: Mr.

Speaker, he’s talking about using somebody else’s money from somebody else’s mattress. That would be the taxpayers of Alberta, ultimately, who are going to have to pay this money back with interest. Has anyone in the government made a serious attempt to spend smarter before the Premier started thinking out loud about taking out a loan so that he doesn’t have to take his fingers out of the cookie jar? Mr. Stelmach: Once again, complete mismessaging there on behalf of the person asking the question. This is for capital.

What a good opportunity to finally catch up with the roads and the schools and the hospitals we need at one-third or even half of the cost we were paying in this high inflationary period that we just went through. It makes sense. Let’s throw some figures. If we’re getting, let’s say, 3 per cent on the money in the bank, and we can borrow at 1 per cent and make 2 per cent on the money in the bank, man, I think that’s a good business decision. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Protection of Children in Care Mr. Chase: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This government has failed once again to protect a vulnerable young child in their custody. The government’s pretense of not holding a public inquiry as an excuse to protect the child’s identity rings hollow. It’s too little too late for this child. To the Premier: to honour the memories of the three children most recently killed or critically injured while in custody of the ministry of children’s services as well as to provide some degree of closure for the parents and family whose children were appre- hended, will the Premier conduct a complete and transparent public inquiry? Mr. Stelmach: Mr.

Speaker, our hearts go out to the families, both the birth families and also the thousands of foster families that open their doors, their homes, to foster children in this province. This is a matter that the minister is investigating thoroughly. There is legislation in place to protect the identity of the children and the families. I think that legislation is appropriate. Last year we gave the opposition an opportunity to sign a waiver and open up the files to those two individuals that are opposition critics. I believe maybe one had accepted; the other one refused.

Then to use this House to now debate a situation that the minister is thoroughly investigating – once again, I have tremendous trust in our minister to investigate fully. Mr. Chase: Mr. Premier, you and I are both grandparents. We can be empathetic. We can be sympathetic. But you’re the one that needs to take action. Given the disproportionate number of aborigi- nal children taken into custody, what assurances can the Premier provide that he is working with his federal counterparts to support aboriginal families within their home so that fewer children will have to be placed into foster or kinship care? Mr.

Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, with respect to working with aboriginal and Métis families, this province has shown great leadership in the country of Canada in terms of building relationships with the First Nations. In fact, we have entered into agreements with a number of chiefs that offer children’s services on reservations. We believe it is culturally right, and we’re work ing with the First Nations to do whatever we can to improve the quality of life and also reduce the number of children that are under the care of the government. It is much better for them to stay within their families. The Speaker: The hon. member.

Mr. Chase: Thank you. We have one recent aboriginal child dead, another barely hanging onto life in the Foothills hospital while his mother maintains a vigil. Why, having made the decision to apprehend these children, was more thought not given to the conditions of their placement, including support for and oversight of the foster parents? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the department has a very thorough way of assessing foster families. As was the occasion this weekend where the foster families got together for a celebration, one of the foster families said that, you know, 99 per cent of the time things go right.

Occasionally, you do have a situation like this, but let’s not point a finger at all of the foster families in this great province because without them we wouldn’t have anyone to assist us in dealing with . . . The Speaker: Third Official Opposition main question. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Riverview. Farm-related Accidents and Fatalities Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

On average, there are 18 deaths and 1,500 significant injuries from farm-related accidents in Alberta every year, yet most farm workers have no protection under the Occupational Health and Safety Act or workers’ compensation or the labour code because of the deliberate policy of this government. To the Premier: when will paid farm workers have the same protection under Occupational Health and Safety as other workers as recom- mended by a judge in a recent fatality inquiry? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, a judge has made a decision.

The two ministers responsible – the minister of agriculture and also Employ- ment and Immigration – are now looking at how to hold consulta- tions and work with the public to see what we can do in this particular area. It’ll take a little time to work out the various situations, but we’re moving ahead.

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 275 Dr. Taft: It doesn’t need consultations. There are off-the-shelf solutions in every other province in this country. The fatality inquiry notes that neither the Department of Employ- ment and Immigration nor the department of agriculture normally investigate farm deaths because, unbelievably, there’s no legislation to require it. The judge noted that investigations of deaths allow for the incorporation of standards to prevent similar deaths in the future. Again to the Premier: will this government implement changes to automatically require investigation of all farm worker deaths?

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, I’m not familiar with the letter of the law, but I know that all deaths on family farms – and other farms are investigated if there’s a death and an accident – are certainly investigated by the police. But this is looking at how we can work towards preventing not only deaths but accidents where, you know, there is loss of limb or some damage to one’s individual health. As I said, progress is being made, and we’ll be able to report to the House at the most appropriate time. 2:00 The Speaker: The hon. member. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

Enacting work standards for paid farm workers was done long ago in other provinces, so people are wondering why this government won’t act. The Premier, who is key in this, failed to disclose the names of major supporters for his leadership campaign covering $160,000 in donations. It’s widely known that huge feedlot operators granted him an airplane and a helicopter for his leadership bid, but those donations were not filed. To the Premier: will the Premier admit that his government won’t budge on this life-and-death policy b ecause he doesn’t want to offend the backers of his leadership campaign? Mr.

Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, I think that the hon. member is bordering on a question of privilege, and I would ask him to withdraw those comments in the House or I shall proceed with one. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Norwood. Assembly of Land for Large Infrastructure Projects Mr. Mason: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. This government’s proposed Bill 19 will give them total and unchecked control over private property owned by Albertans, and if they dare to protest, this government would throw them in jail and fine them hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Rural Albertans are furious that a rural Premier and his cabinet would propose such a Stalinist law. To the Premier: why won’t you admit that this policy tramples the land rights of rural Albertans? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, looking back in history, we could have done things better in terms of acquiring land for public infrastructure or possibly right-of-ways for pipelines and electrical transmission lines as well. We want to work with landowners to ensure that they are treated fairly as we develop long-term corridors in the province of Alberta. The province will grow.

We will require more electrical transmission lines. We want to make sure that when we’re crossing someone’s property, when we’re buying land for the purchase of that public use, all landowners are treated fairly. That’s the purpose of the bill. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Well, the Premier thinks that black is white. Ordinary Albertans won’t stand for a government that tramples on their rights even if they’re threatened with prison time. This policy is a disgrace, la ndowners know it, and they’re furious that this government would propose such measures.

The government will rue the day that it betrayed rural Albertans. To the Premier: how can you claim to respect the 600,000 rural residents of this province when you’re about to throw their land rights into the meat grinder? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, you know, it’s one thing to go to someone to write these questions and add offensive language, but this is a serious matter. We want to work with landowners to make sure that they are treated fairly. There is huge room for improve- ment in the way we buy land for public infrastructure, and we want to ensure that all landowners are treated fairly.

It is a complex issue. In some cases a municipal government or the provincial government may want to almost, like, sterilize land for the future for years and not appropriately deal with the actual cost of that land because we’ve sterilized it for years on end. How do we deal with that situation fairly? That’s the whole discussion through this Bill 19. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thanks very much, Mr. Speaker. Well, the principle of fairness is entirely absent from this bill.

It empowers government to make more sweetheart deals with their P3 friends and their energy company buddies to build whatever they want on farmers’ land. It might be a power line, a ring road, or a nuclear power plant. It is an authoritarian policy brought forward by an arrogant government that takes everyday rural Albertans for granted. To the Premier: will you do the right thing and withdraw Bill 19? Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, the power lines that are built through agricultural lands, farmers’ own land, are there to supply energy to the city of Edmonton and the city of Calgary.

If you don’t want to supply energy, just tell us; we won’t have to build the transmission lines. But I don’t know how you will get energy to the major centres without building new transmission lines, simple as that. Speaker’s Ruling Questions about Legislation The Speaker: Hon. members, nearly four minutes has transpired in this last set of questions. The chair is a bit concerned because the chair does not believe that this bill has been moved yet for second reading in this Assembly, and we’re now debating bills in question period.

Questions related to policy are one thing, but questions with specifics to a bill are quite another thing, particularly when the bill has not been moved for second reading. The hon. Member for Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Victims’ Restitution and Compensation Mr. Quest: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been issues raised recently a bout a perceived loophole in the government’s new Victims Restitution and Compensation Payment Act. My first question is not for the Premier but for the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

Could the minister provide some clarification regarding this concern? The Speaker: The hon. minister.

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009276 Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There has been much discussion about this issue in the last couple of weeks in many places that I’ve been. I wanted to take the opportunity today to talk about Bill 50 with respect to what it achieves and compare that to what the Canadian Criminal Code tries to do. What we see is a Criminal Code that requires a conviction before property can be seized and sold.

It also has a loophole where, if a person who owns property has their property seized, the police are not able to move forward and ask the Crown to make an application to sell the property. Our provincial legislation does not have that loophole and therefore is more effective. Mr. Quest: My second question to the same minister. This law is also being questioned for its ability to seize property before a criminal conviction has been obtained. Aren’t all Albertans considered innocent until proven guilty? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Our legislation does not speak to innocence or guilt. Ou r legislation speaks to property. What we are doing with our legislation and with Bill 50 is nothing more than what a citizen in Alberta could do who felt that property should be seized and sold. We believe that if the citizens of Alberta think that something should be done, it’s entirely appropriate for us to pass legislation to not only support them in what they would like to do but to assist them and in some cases step into their shoes and take the same steps. Thank you. Mr. Quest: No supplemental. Opening of Calgary Courts Centre Mr. Hehr: Mr.

Speaker, the former Minister of Justice advertised a political fundraiser to raise money for his re-election at the opening of the publicly funded Calgary courthouse in January 2008. This was just weeks before an election call. Although the event was put on the back burner, questions still remain. To the Deputy Premier: isn’t it problematic that the most senior lawyer in our province was soliciting partisan donations at an event that was to be held at the Calgary courthouse on the same day as its grand opening? Mr. Stevens: Well, Mr. Speaker, I must say that I recall the court opening.

I don’t recall doing any solicitation at all at that event. Mr. Hehr: Well, fair enough. I’ll table these documents after, but just to give you a highlight of them, you were soliciting donations through the PC Association. Nonetheless, I’ll move on. To the Minister of Justice: as that’s the background, why did taxpayers pay for an event, the opening of the Calgary courthouse, that was being advertised by the Progressive Conservation Associa- tion as a fundraiser for the then Attorney General? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Whenever we open a courthouse, we have an event. I know that as Minister of Justice I’ve been to a number of events where we’ve opened different clinics within courthouses, where we’ve opened different court- houses throughout the province. I know that opening the courthouse in Calgary was a very important event. From my department I’m advised that people believe the Calgary Courts Centre is one of the top three courthouses on this continent right now. I think that it’s important for a lot of people to have the opportunity to see it, and I believe that they did so on that day. Mr.

Hehr: I agree one hundred per cent with what the minister said. However, do you think it’s wise, believing in the separation between government responsibility and court responsibilities, that the PC Association should be advertising fundraisers at the courthouse for an Attorney General, that are going for partisan goals? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Ms Redford: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s my understanding that when courthouses are opened, we have an event. I can’t speak to the specifics or the allegations that the hon. member has made. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie, followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. 2:10 Postsecondary Education Affordability Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. According to a recent report by the Educational Policy Institute some institutions may have to increase tuition by as much as 25 per cent in the future due to losses to their endowment funds and declining revenues as a result of the global economic slowdown. My questions are to the Minister of Advanced Education and Technology. Do you foresee adjusting Alberta’s current tuition fee policy to help students and institutions?

The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Horner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am somewhat familiar with the report that the Educational Policy Institute did. It was a national study. In Alberta we take great pride in the affordability framework which we put together in consultation with the students, and at this time there are no plans to change our current tuition fee policy. Currently students in Alberta pay somewhere under 25 per cent of the cost of their postsecondary education with Alberta taxpayers making a very good investment of upwards of 75 to 80 per cent. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr.

Bhardwaj: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First supplemental to the same minister: how is the government supporting institutions in their effort to provide affordable student housing? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, we’re working with other members of this government in terms of their portfolio responsibilities in housing and students finance in my department. Affordable housing is one piece of the puzzle, and living on campus is one piece of the puzzle, but even living on campus is not necessarily desirable for all students.

Some of our students are perhaps a little older when they come into our institutions than th ey used to be. Perhaps more of them are married with children. Perhaps the environment that they would like to live in while they attend our postsecondary institutions might not be conducive to on-campus. So we’re looking at the whole package, and we’ll continue to do so. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Bhardwaj: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question to the

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 277 same minister: does the federal government’s deferred maintenance program have potential to help Alberta students? Mr. Horner: Very much so, Mr. Speaker. You know, our guests in the gallery would recognize that we’ve chatted about deferred maintenance at our postsecondary institutions many times over the last few years. It’s certainly one of the priorities of our department. I have been in discussions with our federal counterparts on how we might be able to work together to reach mutual priorities on campus, which would include the deferred maintenance.

That deferred maintenance, if we can utilize some of those federal dollars, obviously frees up dollars in other areas of the postsecondary budget that we hope would help the affordability framework for students. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, followed by the hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar. Long-term Care Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rural seniors are concerned that they may have to leave the area that they have called home for most of their lives when they find that they are unable to live independently. The seniors may in fact be second generation to the community.

To the minister of health: what commitment is the minister willing to make to rural seniors so that when they have need of a long-term care facility, they will not be moved far from family and community? Mr. Liepert: Well, as the first part of that

preamble, the member referred to living independently. That’s exactly what we want to try to do: ensure that if seniors want to live independently, they can have the health care provision that they need to retain that ability to live independently. Ms Pastoor: I think that, clearly, the minister of health knows exactly what I’m trying to say. What I’m saying is that they are going to need long-term care. That is not independent living. No matter how you cut it, they need care, and they need the facilities. The minister has proposed incentives for private and nonprofit investment in long-term care facilities.

Will there be a provision for a percentage of these facilities to be developed in rural Alberta? Mr. Liepert: Mr. Speaker, I’m not sure what incentives the member is referring to. I’m not aware of any incentives. However, the provision of long-term care by nonprofit and private providers has been in this province I think probably as long as the province has been incorporated, and we don’t intend to change that. Ms Pastoor: In fact, extra beds were promised in that area.

On February 18 in the House the minister stated, “I would hope that we could provide the options that we wouldn’t need this policy,” referring to the first-bed policy. What details and timelines can the minister give Albertans that he’s really taking action on this issue, that it hasn’t been put on the back burner? Mr. Liepert: Well, clearly, one of the timelines will be the provin- cial budget that comes on April 7, Mr. Speaker, to see what funding we have available in Alberta Health and Wellness.

We are working diligently every day to ensure that seniors have the accommodations that they need in their community, and we’ll continue to do that. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Pigeon Lake Fishery Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many of my constituents continue to be concerned about the whitefish fishery at Pigeon Lake. They are worried about the stocking of walleye and the special walleye licence program. My questions are to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development.

What is he doing to support Pigeon Lake’s whitefish fishery? Dr. Morton: Mr. Speaker, the battle for Pigeon Lake continues. On the one side you have the walleye and their backers; on the other side, the whitefish. I say good. The fact that they’re fighting each other – not the humans but the fish – is a good sign that our walleye stocking program has succeeded. We’ve succeeded in re-establish- ing a balanced fishery with all species of fish and better angling for humans. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the same minister: why has the minister allowed Pigeon Lake to be taken over by walleye to the detriment of whitefish, according to the long-time residents of the Pigeon Lake area? Dr. Morton: Mr. Speaker, there’s so mething fishy about that question. The restocking of walleye has benefited the whitefish fishery. Before the restocking program the whitefish were quite small. Now our fall netting survey shows that the average weight of the whitefish has doubled between 2003 and 2007, and the average length has increased from 42 to 49 centimetres.

In the battle for Pigeon Lake size matters, and the whitefish are rising to the occasion. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mrs. McQueen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final question is to the same minister. My constituents in the Pigeon Lake area ask the minister if he will consider scrapping the special walleye licence and allow a one-walleye-per-day limit for all anglers at Pigeon Lake. Dr. Morton: Mr. Speaker, I want the hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar to know that I’m all for scrapping; scrapping between the whitefish and the walleye, that is.

Opening up Pigeon Lake to an open season would quickly take us right back to where we were in the 1960s, with no walleye being left in the lake. The special walleye licence has made Pigeon Lake a premier walleye fishery and is helping to rebalance the population. Let the battle for Pigeon Lake continue. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Infrastructure Costs Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In comments this weekend the Minister of Transportation indicated that construction costs have dropped 40 per cent in six months in the province of Alberta due to the recession. When I look back six months, I see the following: a $650 million, 30-year contract to build schools and a $1.4 billion, 30-year contract for the north Anthony Henday Drive. That’s a total of over $2 billion in P3 projects. My first question is to the Minister of Infrastructure. Does the hon. minister now see that tying Alberta taxpayers to a 30-year P3 payment at peak construction costs is a very bad deal for taxpayers?

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009278 Mr. Hayden: No. In fact, Mr. Speaker, to the contrary. If you look at the agreement on our website and the payment

schedule for the maintenance over the period of the contract, it’s tied to labour costs and the consumer price index. When things get tough, the price comes down, and we as Albertans enjoy that break. Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, that is untrue. Again to the Minister of Infrastructure. Given the falling construction costs, will the govern ment still be giving out those sweetheart deals where you’ve got overrides, cost-plus contracts for 15 per cent and 20 per cent on those contracts? Those details are on your website. It’s obvious that you haven’t read them. Mr. Hayden: Mr. Speaker, that’s completely incorrect. The agreement and the

schedule for payment is posted on the website, has been posted on the website since the P3 was first announced. It’s there. It dictates that the costs for maintenance on an ongoing basis are tied to those factors that I mentioned earlier. When we go forward with a project, there are no sweetheart deals unless it’s a sweetheart deal for Albertans. We get the best price and get efficient and effective delivery. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would advise the Minister of Infrastructure to read closely the changeover portions of the contracts that he mentioned.

Again to the same minister: if the province can borrow publicly at just 1 per cent, as the Premier mused yesterday on radio, why is this government tying Alberta taxpayers to 30 years of high private- sector debt with these P3 contracts? 2:20 Mr. Hayden: Mr. Speaker, it was referred to earlier today by the Premier that, in fact, we have money in place within our provincial coffers for sustainability funds for our capital for the future, and it is actually receiving interest rates that exceed those that we pay in our agreements.

It’s only good business on behalf of Albertans to make sure that we get the most effective, efficient delivery of our infrastructure in a timely manner. The Speaker: During that last exchange one hon. member used the phrase “untrue,” and another one used the word “incorrect.” The chair considers that a draw. There will be no points of order arising out of the last exchange, but I’d ask members to try and find other words to use. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Fort. Foster Care Review Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last year the Minister of Children and Youth Services pledged to immediately implement a recommendation to stop arbitrary placements that ignored the four- child limit for foster homes. This weekend a director from her ministry said that there’s at least one foster home in Alberta that has eight children. To the Minister of Children and Youth Services: how many foster homes in Alberta are in excess of the four-child maximum? Or is that yet another issue about which the minister is unaware? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Tarchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member does mention the foster care review.

I can say that the foster care review last year was extensive. It had internal and external experts. There were eight recommendations that stemmed from it. We accepted all of them. I mentioned last week that we’re at various stages of implementation. Later today I do plan on tabling a report that will say what the status is of all the recommendations. Ms Notley: Well, we have not however received an answer to my first question with respect to the number of homes in excess of four children.

As you mentioned, the minister pledged to immediately imple- ment the recommendations of the hand-picked panel to clean up the foster care system. Thursday, as mentioned, the story changed, and we were told that the recommendations would be implemented by this summer. To the Minister of Children and Youth Services: given that you don’t appear to have the slightest idea of what’s actually going on in your ministry, how can Albertans trust that you are competent to protect the children in your care? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Tarchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think I’ve always been very consistent with any information that I shared about the foster care review. That was a very extensive review last June. We accepted all of the recommendations and started to implement them. Like I said, this afternoon we’ll have full information on the status of all of the recommendations. Ms Notley: Well, last year we were told that they’d be implemented immediately. Now we’re being told that they might be implemented by this summer. Last week the minister appeared unaware that a foster baby was clinging to life in a Calgary hospital.

She gave us vague platitudes, and then she went into hiding. Indeed, last Thursday this minister told the Legislature that Alberta has a good foster care system. If this poor baby dies, however, he will be the third to suffer such a tragic fate under your watch in just over two years. To the minister: have we not yet reached the point where, in good conscience, you will do the right thing and resign? Ms Tarchuk: Mr. Speaker, as the member mentioned, we do have a serious incident where we have a little boy fighting for his life in hospital. I can tell you that the police are investigating this.

At this point they have not said or determined whether this was an accident or whether it was because of wrongdoing, but I can tell you that I’m not waiting for any deliberation to take action. There are things I am doing. There are things I will not do. What I will not do is be irresponsible and speculate and interfere with the police investiga- tion. What I am doing: last week I talked about that I already had called a special review on this very case; today I’m announcing that I plan on making the findings of that review public.

As well, I’m going to have information in the next couple of days and will make sure that there’s a co-chair of that special case review who is an external expert. I think the bottom line is that we will always stay committed to continuous improvement of our child intervention and our foster care system. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fort, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre.

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 279 Registered Education Savings Plans Mr. Cao: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Both the federal and provincial governments give grants and tax shelters through programs like registered education savings plans to encourage and assist parents to save for their children’s advanced education. Many Albertans are concerned about the financial well-being of their savings and the investment of the money contributed in these programs. My question today is to the hon. minister of finance. In light of the global economic situation what guarantee do parents have that that money is safe?

The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance and Enterprise. Ms Evans: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2005 in celebration of a special event in Alberta, the centennial, we offered parents up to $800 as an incentive for saving for their children’s future education. It was open to people to make their own selection of financial institutions. The private businesses that are banks do not receive any kind of insurance or guarantee from the provincial government, but the federal government under the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation has such a guarantee.

When the institution fails, there’s a hundred thousand dollars available for up to a hundred thousand dollars. People have to make sure that they have that kind of protection when they deposit money. Mr. Cao: Well, thank you, Madam Minister. The Alberta govern- ment has invested, like you said, tens of millions to supplement our young people’s registered education plans. To the same minister: what assurance do taxpayers have that this money is invested wisely and protected against mismanagement or bankruptcy by the institution that it’s invested in? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Ms Evans: Yes. Mr.

Speaker, first of all, when you provide a deposit to any financial institution – and Canadian financial institutions are among the best in the world, and I think that that’s a real tribute to both our federa l government and the institutions themselves – the first thing to do is to find out if that insurance, the CDIC program, is in place. C hoose well your financial institution and rest assured. There are some things that are not insured for – scam, fraud, theft, or in fact a situation where the institution itself falters on its investments – only the hundred thousand . . . The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr.

Cao: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many new Canadians have friends and relatives in their former lands who have lost their investments in the recent economic downturn. What protection do we have for fellow Albertans against such happenings? Ms Evans: Well, Mr. Speaker, as long as they invest in an institu- tion that’s CDIC insured, if that insurance is provided by the bank, then there’s no further action that has to be taken to guarantee that particular protection. They don’t pay extra insurance; that’s provided by the bank. It is, in fact, automatic. The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Centre, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay. Oil Sands Area Groundwater Monitoring Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Academy Award short-listed documentary Downstream, about the impact of the oil sands development on the Athabasca River, has again raised a number of issues important to Alberta and, more importantly, questioned how this government has managed the resource. My questions are to the Minister of Environment.

Can the minister tell us whether the government has conducted research on resource extraction in the oil sands region and any increase in the levels of toxic chemicals in the water? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, I mentioned on numerous occasions in the House that the government has an ongoing monitoring system to monitor not only the water that is within the Athabasca River itself but also at various points throughout the watershed to assess the ongoing quality of groundwater as well. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Yeah. I think most of that is industry led, and it’s self-reporting.

Next question to the same minister: given that this minister stood in the House last year and stated, when asked if groundwater had been contaminated, that “there is no evidence to indicate that there is any impact on the Athabasca Rive r,” is this still the minister’s position? Mr. Renner: Yes, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much. Can the minister tell us why neither he nor the Minister of Energy nor the Premier has ever met with the people in Fort Chipewyan or Fort MacKay to listen to their concerns?

The industry had the intestinal fortitude to go and speak with them, so why hasn’t this government? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, I can’t say it’s untrue, I guess, so I’ll say that I think the member is misinformed. In fact, I have met with the people and the leadership of Fort Chip. I have personally been there twice. I know that the Minister of Aboriginal Relations has been there at least twice, perhaps three times. We have had a good working relationship, and in fact at the last meeting that I had in Fort Chipewyan, we agreed in principle to the implementation of a community-based monitoring system.

I understand from my staff that the details for the implementation of that community-based water monitoring system are moving well along, and we should have it up and running sometime this year. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Mackay, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-McCall. 2:30 Packaging Waste Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I recently bought a gift and ended up with a small item wrapped up in a substantial amount of packaging. Unfortunately, I’m sure that we’ve all had similar experiences.

I understand that packaging is n ecessary to preserve and transport products, but the material is often used just once. I’m sure that I’m not the only one who finds this unnecessarily wasteful. My question is for the Minister of Environment. What is the province doing to reduce unnecessary packaging? Mr. Renner: Mr. Speaker, as many members are aware, we have the document Too Good to Waste, which is a strategy that allows us to deal with waste of all kinds. We have shown leadership in this

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009280 province with respect to beverage containers, tires, electronics, paint, and used oil. The issue of packaging is something that we now need to deal with. However, unfortunately, because of the relative size of our market in relation to the national market it’s difficult for us to act unilaterally on an issue such as packaging of materials. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first supplemental is to the same minister. If the problem of packaging waste cannot be solved by Alberta alone, then are you working with other jurisdic- tions on the issue?

The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Renner: Yes, Mr. Speaker. The CCME, the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, has been engaged in this file, and I’m pleased to report that at our most recent meeting in Whitehorse about three weeks ago we reconfirmed our commitment to develop nation-wide national standards for packaging that will be geared towards reducing the amount of waste that’s generated through the retail sale of goods. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Woo-Paw: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again to the same minister. It’s good to hear that progress is being made to reduce this type of waste.

Can the minister tell us what Albertans can do right now to help ensure that this kind of packaging does not end up in landfills? Mr. Renner: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think we always have to resort back to what we all learned in school, and that’s the three Rs. There needs to be a commitment on behalf of Albertans to reduce the amount of waste, and that’s partly through the program that I just made reference to, some standards, but we can reuse material.

There’s nothing to prevent individuals from reusing packing material that they have in their possession for one reason or another, and we can also recycle that material. I encourage Albertans to do all three. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont. Public Transit Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the recession bites, more and more Albertans will be turning to public transit, which provides the most affordable way of ge tting ar ound cities and towns.

For many Albertans public transit is their only means to get groceries, to get to work, to see family and friends. To the Minister of Transpor- tation: what is this government doing to provide support for the increased ridership that public transit will undoubtedly experience in this recession? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, as you know, all public transit has been looked after by the municipality that public transit is in. We don’t really have public transit as a province. We look after all the roads and everything that public transit can run on.

But we did announce a program for Green TRIP which is going to deal with a lot of public transit. We’ve been having meetings on that already. We’re doing our last consultation right now on what type of programs we need to not only put people on public transit but to reduce greenhouse gases from the tailpipe. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that Green TRIP hasn’t left the station yet. To the same minister again. In its report titled Plan It the city of Calgary has made very clear the vital importance of an upgraded public transit system to Calgary’ s future prosperity.

Does the government agree with the report’s conclusions, and will it be committing to projects accordingly? Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, we won’t be committing to projects unless they meet the criteria we’ve come out with within Green TRIP, and the very best ones, the most innovative and what’s going to reduce the most greenhouse gases and get the most cars off the road, are the projects that are going to win, that we will be able to supply some resources to. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As with so much, the commit- ment of this government will be measured in funding, not words, and the funding for public transit through the Green TRIP initiative has already been cut by over 90 per cent. Will Albertans ever see the full $2 billion that was promised for public transit? That is so important even before considering the economic stimulus impact it would have. Mr. Ouellette: Well, Mr. Speaker, I can’t say what our revenues are going to be in this province, but I can say that we have committed to $2 billion.

What the hon. member is referring to is the hon. finance minister’s third-quarter update, stating that there was only $195 million within Green TRIP. She’s talking the ’08-09 time. We don’t know what we’re going to have in this year’s budget. I’m sure that because of the way our ec onomic downturn has been and the way that our income isn’t as high as it was, we may have to stretch Green TRIP out a little bit. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Flood Damage in Calgary Mr. Denis: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Last week the Calgary neighbourhood of Sunnyside experienced flooding, with many of the residents sustaining water damage to their homes. My question is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Since the minister is responsible for the Alberta Emergency Management Agency, can he please explain to this House how the province responded to this serious incident? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Danyluk: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The safety of Albertans is paramount for this government.

The Alberta Emergency Management Agency was on scene immediately, and we continue to provide technical expertise with cleanup and damage assessment. We are working with the residents and also the municipalities to determine what support is n ecessary and what support is needed. Mr. Denis: Mr. Speaker, my next question is for the same minister. A number of residents in Sunnyside have lost personal items and experienced property damage as a result of this disaster. What is the

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 281 province doing for a disaster recovery program for these flood victims? Mr. Danyluk: Well, Mr. Speaker, first of all, they should contact their insurance provider. Secondly, they need to contact the city, and that can be reached at 311. Also, I’d like to suggest to individu- als who do have damage to dispose of carpets or whatever damage they have appropriately. We will continue to work with the city and the residents to collect informati on that’s necessary to see if the flood does qualify for support. The Speaker: The hon. member? The hon.

Member for Calgary-Currie, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-East. Heritage Savings Trust Fund Investments Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not everybody took a bath in last fall’s market meltdown. Last week it was revealed that the city of Calgary’s 2 and a half billion dollar capital f und performed extraordinarily better than the heritage fund in 2008. The province’s savings lost 15 per cent of their value. Calgary’s fund lost only one- tenth of 1 per cent. To the minister of finance: can the minister explain why the heritage fund underperformed Calgary’s fund by so much? Ms Evans: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I would have to do some type of analysis. The heritage savings trust fund was 14 and a half per cent. There was a slightly larger per cent of loss given to some of the other funds that are managed by Alberta Investment Management Corporation on behalf of the province. One would have to undertake an analysis. I could give you a list of funds that performed less well than the heritage fund, but it’s embarking on a very dangerous precedent. It depends entirely on the mix of assets. It depends entirely on the manner in which those assets are bought and sold.

Some of those losses may in fact be paper losses which can be reaccrued at a later date. Mr. Taylor: As Calgary’s fund did so well by staying away from derivatives and, instead, investing in safer bonds, will the minister be changing the government’s investment practices to safeguard the heritage fund in the future? Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, a great deal of analysis is undertaken before there’s any change in the mix of assets and the mix of products that are purchased.

In fact, in endeavouring to discover what sort of science is used in that regard, I have consulted with a number of people, including the Canada pension plan principles that talked about maintaining exactly the status quo. We have looked at the

schedule of assets for this coming year, and when we deliver the budget, we’ll be able to report accordingly. 2:40 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How does the minister plan to recoup the losses in the heritage fund over the next few years, or does this government consider savings a luxury we can no longer afford? Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, when you speak to the board members that are responsible for the Alberta Investment Management Corporation, they are very clearly bright, assertive policy-makers.

They have every intention of being aggressive with the fund within the limits that we define in terms of a risk. I’m very satisfied that they will come up with the right strategies to continue the unprecedented record over the last 30 years of management of the heritage savings trust fund. Albertans should be proud of our track record. The Speaker: Hon. members, that was 98 questions and responses. In a few seconds from now we’ll call upon the first of six members to participate in Members’ Statements.

In the interim can we revert to Introduction of Guests? [Unanimous consent granted] head: Introduction of Guests (continued) The Speaker: The hon. Member for West Yellowhead. Mr. Campbell: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. It’s my privilege to introduce to you and through you to all members of the Assembly three officials from the Grande Cache Coal company that are here today visiting with officials from Employment and Immigration and Energy. I’d like to introduce Mr. Bob Stan, CEO and president of Grande Cache Coal; Mr.

Lloyd Metz, vice-president of mining from Grande Cache Coal – we go back to 1981 in Estevan, Saskatchewan, with the Estevan Coal Corporation – and Mr. Bernd Martens, the vice-president of environment. I’d ask them to rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Lethbridge and District Exhibition Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is March madness for Lethbridge and District Exhibition. There’s Ag Expo, the North American Seed Fair, extreme pro rodeo, and the home and garden show.

There will be an expected 50,000 guests through the gates in March. Ag Expo is western Canada’s premier agricultural trade show. The North American Seed Fair has been held annually since 1897 and is the oldest seed fair in western Canada. There were 50 different classes in pedigree seed, open classes, and junior classes. There were 13 judges, 17 committee members, all of whom are volunteers, who put in many hours to ensure its great success, in addition to a very dedicated staff. Products of agriculture are important exports for Canada. It supports our rural commun ities, which we are in danger of losing.

Rural or urban, we are all dependent on agriculture. After all, we all eat. Our Aggie Days is an agricultural education show: 3,000 school- children came to learn about agriculture in a fun and interactive environment. It is an annual event provided free of charge by the Lethbridge and District Exhibition. To further highlight the importance that agricultural exhibitions play in communities, Exhibition Park was privileged to host both the federal minister of agriculture, Gerry Ritz, and the Alberta Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development and the MP Rick Casson.

The ministers attended, participated, and toured the seed fair and exhibition. I’m sure they were both left very impressed. Mr. Speaker, on another note, it is a very great honour for someone to receive a special name from our First Nations. The Member for Lethbridge-West received just such an honour last week at an international powwow in Lethbridge. The name translates to “sees many things.” I know he will wear his name proudly. Please join me in congratulating him and thanking him for his work with First Nations.

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009282 The Speaker: The hon. Member for Battle River-Wainwright. Student Engagement Initiative Mr. Griffiths: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to say a few words today about Speak Out, the Alberta student engagement initiative that was launched by the government last fall. The role of the student engagement initiative is to motivate Alberta’s youth to participate in an ongoing province-wide discussion on education. Asking for students’ input and taking action on their ideas will create more actively engaged citizens and a stronger education system.

To date the Speak Out team has conducted 30 Speak Out forums in high schools across the province. The Speak Out interactive website is being actively used by students. In fact, there are over 3,500 posts on the discussion forum, and the numbers grow daily. On May 3 and 4, 2009, the first Speak Out Annual Student Conference will bring together approximately 200 youth from all over the province to explore and discuss recommendations for the education system.

At the forum the Minister of Education will be announcing the three winners of the Speak Out video contest, the theme being What I Want, What I Need: My Vision for Education. The deadline for the video contest submissions is March 31, so interested students still have a few weeks to enter a video. Students have an opportunity to apply to become a member of the Minister of Education’s student advisory council, which will be formed in May after the first annual conference.

This c ouncil will explore new and innovative ways to improve learning opportunities, and council members will act as representatives for Speak Out in their communities and schools. More information on the conference, video contest, advisory council, and Speak Out in general can be found online at the Speak Out interactive website at speakout.alberta.ca. Youth can and should influence the decisions today that affect the rest of their lives. Their perspectives are essential to future changes and decisions being made in education. I’m excited to hear what students have to say because every single voice counts.

I urge all young Albertans to become involved and to speak out. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Montrose. Marlborough Park Boy Scout Event Mr. Bhullar: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This February 22 I had the opportunity to attend a Scouting event at the Marlborough Park community hall. It was a wonderful event that brought out dozens of people and inspired young people. The event involved three Scout troops: the 174th Marlborough Park, the 71st Marlborough, and the 161st Forest Heights. Every year they gather to celebrate the birthday of the founder of the Scouts, Lord Baden-Powell.

Scouting offers young people an opportunity to do many things that they might not have had a chance to do on their own, everything from canoeing to Cub car building. The Scout law is something we can all take into consideration when we go about our daily lives even though we and even the y oungest member in the House have long passed the age range. A Scout is helpful and trustworthy, kind and cheerful, considerate and clean, wise in the use of all resources. I was proud to present an award to Brian Swan, who has served the Scouts for over 25 years and has mentored many young people in living up to that motto.

In helping run the Scouting program, he has taught many youths in my area valuable life skills from commu- nity service to outdoorsmanship. I thank Brian for his service and hope that he continues to serve our community. I also want to thank everyone that is involved in Scouting in our community. Your service makes a profound difference in the lives of our young people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung. Rotary Club 104th Anniversary Mr. Xiao: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to honour the 104th anniversary of the Rotary Club, which was celebrated on February 23, 2009.

For five years I have also been a very proud member of the Rotary Club of Edmonton. The club’s four-way test is an important ethics compass for the things that we think and we say and we do. It is a guide in both my personal and my political lives. The four questions we must ask ourselves are: is it the truth, is it fair to all concerned, will it build goodwill and better friendships, and will it be beneficial to all concerned? This test is indicative of how the Rotary Club and its members conduct themselves through service to their community.

The 104 years of remarkable Rotary Club service have provided resources for park systems, accommodations for the homeless, food programs for schools, seniors’ residences, and aid to medical causes such as the effort to eliminate polio globally. Mr. Speaker, I’m proud to congratulate the Rotary Club on the celebration of 104 years of service and commitment to bettering Alberta’s communities and communities throughout the world. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Kidney Disease Mr. Elniski: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

March is National Kidney Month, and this Thursday, March 12, is World Kidney Day. World Kidney Day is recognized in over 100 countries. This year the focus of World Kidney Day is on the importance of high blood pressure as one of the key symptoms and causes of chronic kidney disease. This is an incredible opportunity to raise awareness about the potential risk factors for kidney disease. By properly educating ourselves on the risk factors, we are more likely to take the steps to prevent this disease from affecting our health.

Over the last year I have attended several events for the Kidney Foundation, a constitu- ent organization in Edmonton-Calder. On March 12 the Kidney Foundation is hosting its first annual World Kidney Day radiothon at Southgate shopping centre. It will be on air with EZ Rock 104.9 FM and The Bear 100.3 FM through- out the day. You may have already heard the radio commercials we recorded a couple of weeks ago. It’s a great opportunity for this organization to share stories of those affected by kidney disease, raise awareness, and encourage Albertans to support this remarkable cause.

An estimated 2 million Canadians either have chronic kidney disease or are at risk of developing it. It is important that we encourage awareness to prevent more from being affected by this disease. I encourage everyone to support the Kidney Foundation in any way that they can. Thank you. 2:50 Commonwealth Day Dr. Brown: Mr. Speaker, I rise today in recognition of Common- wealth Day. The Commonwealth was formed 60 years ago, and Canada was one of the founding members of this association, which now comprises 53 nations and nearly 2 billion people, one-third of humanity.

Today all hon. members have before them a message

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 283 from Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, our head of state, our Queen, and the head of the Commonwealth. As Her Majesty has noted, it is the belief of the Commonwealth members in values like democ- racy, freedom, human rights, and equality which binds us together today as in 1949. Mr. Speaker, it is one of these values, democracy, which I wish to acknowledge in particular today.

That is the genius of the British parliamentary system of government, a proud legacy which has served this province so well for over a hundred years, a system in which the executive and the legislative functions of government flow from the same electoral mandate, a system where individual parliamentarians represent citizens of electoral districts and carry their voice to parliament for fixed terms, a system of ministerial responsibility in which the first minister and ministers in council exercise the powers of the Crown and the state and govern in the name of the people.

It is our parliamentary democracy, which has never been equalled by any other form of government, which binds so many of the member nations of the Commonwealth today. On the 60th anniversary of the Commonwealth I’m sure I speak for all hon. members of this House in thanking Her Majesty the Queen for her message and for her more than 50 years of faithful service as the head of this proud association of nations. May God save the Queen. The Speaker: Thank you for that last statement, hon. member.

I will advise hon. members that this year, in 2009, the Common- wealth Parliamentary Association annual meeting in Canada, the Canadian region, will be held in Toronto, Ontario, in the third week of July. I’ll be advising members of such as we go into early April. head: Introduction of Bills The Speaker: The hon. President of the Treasury Board. Bill 21 Appropriation (Supplementary Supply) Act, 2009 Mr. Snelgrove: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to intro- duce Bill 21, the Appropriation (Supplementary Supply) Act, 2009.

This being a money bill, His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Motion carried; Bill 21 read a first time] Bill 25 Teachers’ Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2009 The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance and Enterprise. Ms Evans: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill 25, the Teachers’ Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2009. This being a money bill, His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this bill, recommends the same to the Assembly.

Under the November 2007 memorandum of agreement the government agreed to pay the teachers’ portion of the pre- 1992 unfunded liability payments until August 31, 2009, and then assume the total pre-1992 unfunded liability on September 1, 2009. The goal of this amendment act is to ensure that the implementation of the pension agreement occurs in a timely manner. [Motion carried; Bill 25 read a first time] head: Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Children and Youth Services. Ms Tarchuk: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise to table the appropri- ate number of copies of a document showing where our ministry is in implementing the recommendations made during last year’s review of our province’s foster care system. There has been much discussion over the last few days about the status of the recommen- dations made by the review panel, whose members were well- respected experts internal and external to government. It has been suggested that some of the recommendations have not been acted on. I do want to set that record straight.

All eight of the recommenda- tions made by the committee were accepted, and this document shows that implementation in every one of the recommendations is either complete or well under way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Mr. Chase: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This past weekend the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo and myself had an opportunity to participate in a Poverty Talks! workshop.

In 2008 and 2009 in over 45 community meetings approximately 350 participants answered the following questions: what would make a difference for low-income Calgarians, and as a low-income person what would I like to see change? The Speaker: Hon. member, this is tablings. Mr. Chase: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I have two other tablings. They are both from child care workers concerned about the decertification of their profession.

The first is from Maureen Thompson, who writes, “I am writing in regards to the sudden loss in my recognition as a Fully Certified Child and Youth Care Counsellor with Children and Youth Services within the Government of Alberta.” From Morag Rempel: “I am writing to you out of concern for the future of the quality of care offered to some of our most vulnerable children.” She points out that “in 1984 the government took bold steps to protect the children in care by implementing strict hiring standards, a move applauded by child care providers across Canada, U.S.A. and Britain.” She’d like us to continue to lead in our child care services.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three tablings today. First, I’d like to table the appropriate number of copies of a story from the Edmonton Journal dated June 11, 2008, which relates to my questions today. In the story the minister of children’s services is quoted as saying that the recommendations on foster care would be implemented immediately as opposed to many months later. The second one is on behalf of the Member for Edmonton- Highlands-Norwood.

It is the appropriate number of copies of two documents from the Alberta Lymphedema Association which describe the closure of the Calgary clinic and the result that non- cancer lymphedema patients have no place to receive treatment in southern Alberta. The third, Mr. Speaker, is the appropriate number of copies of 10 reports from long-term care workers indicating specific problems on shifts that were short-staffed, including where residents were left in

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009284 bed well into the morning and received late meals and had scheduled baths missed. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. Mr. Hehr: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am tabling five sets of documents in the House today regarding my questions in question period. The documents note on them: “Please join Deputy Premier Ron Stevens and other distinguished guests [to] celebrate a Mile- stone – The opening of the new Calgary Courts Centre” and “Please make cheques payable to Calgary Glenmore PC Association.” We note that the . . . The Speaker: Okay. Let’s get on with the tabling. Mr.

Hehr: All right. Nonetheless, I am tabling some more docu- ments which list the costs to the taxpayer of the event, including $5,000, it looks like, in the amount of food and drink as well as the costs, then, of some 32,000-plus dollars to the taxpayer to open the courthouse on that day. Thank you very much. The Speaker: Are there others? Hon. members, please remember that we have Standing Order 7(7), that basically says: at 3 o’clock.

That’s the reason why the chair is trying to push this ahead, so that we don’t run up against that, because you still have the Clerk. head: Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following document was deposited with the office of the Clerk: on behalf of Ms Pastoor, the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, an Edmonton Journal website

article dated January 7, 2009, entitled Gov’t Rejects 4-year Council Term. The Speaker: Hon. members, today the chair interjected on one occasion with respect to what he considered mildly intemperate language and then listened very, very attentively to the member’s statement given by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. We now have an additional reason why temperate language in this Assembly is so important. In the member’s statement the hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder made it very, very clear with respect to kidney problems, kidney concerns. He said that high blood pressure leads oftentimes to kidney problems.

So temperate language in this Assembly reduces the blood pressure, reduces the kidney problems, helps the Alberta health care system. We should all be part of it. 3:00head: Orders of the Day head: Public Bills and Orders Other than Government Bills and Orders Second Reading Bill 201 Traffic Safety (Vehicles with Unlawfully Possessed Firearms) Amendment Act, 2009 [Debate adjourned March 2: Mr. Kang speaking] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-McCall. Mr. Kang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to rise today again in support of Bill 201.

The purpose of the bill is to promote public safety, to make Albertans safe on the streets. The penalties associ- ated with the offence are a fine of not less than $2,500 and not more than $25,000 or imprisonment of not more than one year or both and a driver’s licence suspension of one year for a first conviction under the section, five years for a second conviction, and indefinitely for a third conviction.

To go down further, it says that if a police officer has reasonable and probable grounds for believing an offence has been committed, the officer shall request the surre nder of the driver’s licence and detain the vehicle. The licence is suspended for 24 hours, and the vehicle is impounded for the same length of time. The new

section applies to drivers’ licences issued both inside and outside of Alberta. Like I said, the whole purpose of the bill is to make Albertans feel safe when they leave the house, to make their quality of life better than they have now. It is about suppressing the conditions that lead to criminal activities by gang members who are carrying illegal weapons in their vehicles, and it is a bout protecting the lives of innocent Albertans. Mr. Speaker, I think that Albertans are worried about their safety. They are worried about the safety of their children. They’re worried about the safety of their neighbourhoods.

More and more people are concerned about drugs being pushed in the schools, on the streets. I’ve got the example of a 7-Eleven store in Calgary-McCall. It was getting out of hand, and luckily we were able to get things under control with the help of the police and the neighbourhood around the 7-Eleven. I’m hoping that the problem is solved and we don’t run into that problem again. We all know there have been s hootings in B.C. – in Surrey, in Vancouver, in Abbotsford – every day almost, every week. There have been tragic incidents in B.C., and even in Calgary-McCall there have been gang-related shootings.

Deaths have been occurring in Calgary-McCall, too, in the past year. One doesn’t feel safe on the streets of Calgary. Mr. Speaker, I remember when I came here in 1970. There was a time we could leave the doors unlocked. We used to go shopping, leave the windows unrolled, go shopping, and come back. We didn’t have to worry about cars being stolen. We didn’t have to worry about houses being broken into because, you know, criminals were not running rampant, I would say, on the streets.

Now there are gang members, they’re pushing drugs, there are new drugs coming every day, and they’re shooting each other on the streets. We have to get tough, I think, on the gang activity so our streets are safe before it’s too late to get our streets back. It has been happen- ing, the way things have been going. I had a meeting with the police inspector, and the concern is out there. We should have more resources for the law enforcement agencies so they can investigate properly, they can prosecute, and they can head off the criminals before they commit any crimes.

I believe Bill 201 is one more step in the right direction. It is proactive, and it’s going to prevent crime, seizing guns before a crime is committed. The present law, Bill 50, is a good law, but there are some loopholes in it, as well. It’s just very vague as to who to charge when the police find illegal weapons in the vehicles because the occupants may deny that the guns belong to them. Mr. Speaker, the vehicles are a mode of transportation of illegal drugs and guns. Vehicles are used in criminal activity.

We heard the argument from the hon. members from other side of the House last week that as owners of unregistered long guns hunters and farmers would be charged under this legislation. Instead of having a clear intent of the bill, despite what the police officers are telling us would happen – it simply is not the case with this legisla- tion that owners of unregistered long guns would be at risk of being charged. I think we can deal with any concerns raised by amend- ments to this bill.

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 285 Let’s not be partisan about the bill. Let’s bring all the genuine concerns forward, and let’s amend the bill so we can strengthen the hand of our law enforcement agencies. Bill 201 goes further to close the loopholes which arise in Bill 50. Passing Bill 201 is not going to harm law-abiding citizens. It’s only going to hurt the criminals where it hurts. It will send a clear message to gang members that drive around with illegal guns in their vehicle that it will not be tolerate d; it will be unaccep table.

So if you’re caught with a gun, you will be paying a heavy price for possessing an illegal weapon. This is just to strengthen the hand, again, of the police. I stress that point again and again because we’re all concerned about gangs. You know, we are all concerned about the criminals, so I don’t know why there’s a big hesitation from the other side to proceed with Bill 201. Bill 201 is being painted as such a draconian measure, that anyone with a gun in their vehicle will be put in jail or lose their car. What happened to “people are innocent until they’re proven guilty”?

You know, they will have to be proven guilty before they’re charged. The Speaker: I’m sorry, hon. member. Hon. members, we have eight minutes remaining for this portion of business, three of which I will use to recognize an additional speaker if one wishes to participate, because I have to allow five minutes for the mover of the bill to close. Any additional member wishing to participate? The hon. Member for Calgary-Bow. Ms DeLong: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It’s a pleasure to rise today and join second reading on debate of Bill 201, the Traffic Safety (Vehicles with Unlawfully Possessed Firearms) Amendment Act, 2009, brought forward by the hon. Member for Calgary- Buffalo. The intention of this bill is directed at reducing gun crimes in our communities, and I want to thank the Member for Calgary- Buffalo for the spirit of this legisl ation. We on this side of the House very much appreciate support in our fight against crime.

As has been mentioned, this government amended the Victims Restitution and Compensation Payment Act, or VRCPA, in 2008, which empowers our police officers to immediately seize vehicles and all property that has been or may be used to commit a crime. This act received wide support from police forces, victims organiza- tions, and the hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo.

This hon. member stated on November 20, 2008, that the amendments to the VRCPA “would allow for us to deal with seizing vehicles of people who are driving around with guns unsafely and who are transporting them for use in crime.” Further, the hon. member said, “this type of legisla- tion would ensure that guns and gangs are kept in their place,” and the hon. member is absolutely right to emphasize how the VRCPA empowers police. 3:10 Mr. Speaker, the amendments to the VRCPA were designed to protect the safety of Albertans, as it prevents criminals from driving their vehicles to carry out illegal activities.

As the hon. member for Calgary-Buffalo said, the amendments to the Victims Restitution and Compensation Payment Act “would ensure that guns and gangs are kept in their place.” That’s what the act is currently doing and why I, too, support the amendment. This strong government legislation goes well above and beyond what’s proposed in Bill 201. Although I very much appreciate the hon. member’s concern for tackling gun crime and, again, the spirit of this bill, perhaps he did not expect that our police and prosecutors would be so very effective employing this legislation.

I’m sure that, along with all the members on this side of the House, he is very relieved to hear the reports last week of $4.6 million in illegal profits removed from criminal hands. Perhaps in view of the reports he’s heard, he may even wish to withdraw his bill himself in respect for the more effective government legislation. Mr. Speaker, I have to urge all members to reject this redundant though very well-meaning bill. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo to close the debate. Mr. Hehr: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Today we vote on whether my private member’s bill, Bill 201, the Traffic Safety (Vehicles with Unlawfully Possessed Firearms) Amendment Act, 2009, passes second reading. I’ve heard a number of MLAs speak on this bill. Although I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, I think I know which way the wind is blowing on this. Nevertheless, I’ve heard basically two major objections to this bill, and one I can really appreciate. It was brought forward by the hon.

Member for Calgary-Nose Hill, who was really worried, actually, about law-abiding citizens possibly being caught up in this, as my bill said that illegal firearms would be cracked down on. One of the unintended consequences of this, I believe he said, was his grandmother would be out with her .22 in the back round and possibly get picked up, which was, honestly, a concern. It could have happened under my bill. However, I wish we would have taken this a step further; we could’ve gone and maybe, as the hon. member said, looked at revising this bill to have been to unregistered or restricted firearms.

I appreciated his intellectual honesty in at least attacking the bill in that format and framing it as such because that is one of the unintended consequences that maybe we could get rid of, although police officers said they wouldn’t be going after that, yada yada yada. But I appreciate that. Now, moving on to the second argument, and it was that Bill 201 is redundant as it was brought up by the victims of crime restitution act. By all means, I hate to say it: that is not being, from my point of view, intellectually honest. Here’s why. There’s a loophole here, and the hon.

Member for Calgary-Egmont should know this. Right now if a police officer pulls over a vehicle, a gangbanger who’s driving a vehicle either stolen or rented, which many people are, with one of these restricted firearms, that are illegal, you know what happens, sir? What happens is the police officer lays a charge under the Criminal Code. Guess what? I’ve been told by police officers that going to court, the person denies that the gun was there. Well, guess what? No charge.

Now we’re supposed to, through the victims of crime legislation act, go through an in rem proceeding, attach that illegal gun found to a guy who’s not criminally convicted of anything to maybe find some property or something like that out there to attach to him. Well, you know, more power to him if we’re successful in this. I really don’t think it’s going to happen. Further, what happens to the individual, the young gangbanger, who really doesn’t keep his assets on paper in a nice little stockbro- ker report that says: I own 47 shares of this company, that company? It just doesn’t work.

What this bill was intended to do was cover off the loophole from albeit a wonderful bill, the victims of crime restitution act, which is great work by the government, that I applaud them for. This was merely to close a loophole. That’s all I’m here saying. Please, I hope that some other MLA, maybe from the governing party, comes up with this idea and goes to the Justice minister and says: hey, maybe we should bring this amendment in. I would applaud it, I would stand for it, and I’d say: that’s another good piece of work by this government.

I wish we could maybe go to committee stage and have some of these resolutions changed. I think we really could make it workable, could maybe make those minor changes that would put some touches

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009286 to the victims of crime restitution act, again a wonderful bill, that would allow for this loophole to be covered off. I thank you for your time here today and for your commitment. Please vote in favour of what I think is a worthwhile initiative for this government to undertake. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [The voice vote indicated that the motion for second reading lost] [Several members rose calling for a division.

The division bell was rung at 3:17 p.m.] [Ten minutes having elapsed, the Assembly divided] For the motion: Blakeman Kang Pastoor Chase MacDonald Taft Hehr Notley Taylor Against the motion: Allred Evans Olson Anderson Forsyth Prins Benito Horne Quest Blackett Jablonski Redford Brown Jacobs Renner Calahasen Klimchuk Rogers Campbell Leskiw Sandhu Cao Liepert Sherman Dallas Lindsay Snelgrove DeLong Marz VanderBurg Denis Mitzel Vandermeer Drysdale Oberle Woo-Paw Elniski Totals: For – 9 Against – 37 [Motion for second reading of Bill 201 lost] 3:30 Bill 202 Municipal Government (Municipal Auditor General) Amendment Act, 2009 The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Calgary-Hays. Mr. Johnston: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure to open debate on Bill 202, the Municipal Government (Municipal Auditor General) Amendment Act, 2009. I have met with many stakeholders who believe that this piece of legislation has the potential to greatly help municipalities. They have also been consistently pleased that this bill would make municipal spending practices as transparent as other levels of government. Many people have pointed out that the federal and provincial governments are both audited by their respective Auditors General.

They want municipalities to be held to the same account. Bill 202 creates the office of the municipal auditor general under the Ministry of Municipal Affairs. The municipal auditor general would work with Alberta municipalities and their external financial auditors to assist municipalities with making their operations both as effective and efficient as possible and to make sure that Albertans get value for their money. It would also create a mechanism for Albertans to determine whether they are receiving fair value for their business and property taxes.

The municipal auditor general would conduct a performance audit of any municipal system or program that is deemed appropriate. It would subsequently provide the municipality with detailed recommendations for improvement and potential actions that may help achieve this. These measures would help to ensure that a municipality’s operations and services are executed in a way that makes the best possible use of public funds. Currently a municipality is required to submit annual financial statements and a financial information return to the provincial government.

This helps to provide the government with the information needed to ensure that a municipality is operating within the parameters set out in the Municipal Government Act. When an external auditor completes a municipality’s audited financial statement, they also provide the municipality with a management letter. This letter may identify areas where a municipality could improve financial controls or where different accounting procedures and processes may reduce costs or improve services.

It is my understanding that a management letter given to a municipality is not always made public and may not provide a municipality with in-depth analysis of their operations. On the other hand, the recommendations from the municipal auditor general would be made available to the public as soon as possible. This would provide for an additional level of oversight and accountability as the public would have access to these recommendations.

In addition, the municipality would be required to notify the municipal auditor general within a specified time on the actions a municipality intends to take with respect to the recommendations. If a municipal- ity does not take adequate or appropriate action on these recommen- dations, the municipal auditor general may report these concerns to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. In short, Mr. Speaker, this office would work with municipalities to help ensure that their operations are sustainable in the long term.

This bill is not intended to remove the operational freedoms that Alberta municipalities currently enjoy. Rather, B ill 202 simply seeks to give municipalities the tools they require to ensure that they are providing their residents with the highest possible value for the money they receive. Any recommendations provided by the municipal auditor general would take into consideration the long- term vision of a municipality. Mr. Speaker, a performance audit would be particularly beneficial for Alberta’s rural municipalities who may not have the capabilities to conduct an independent performance audit themselves.

Bill 202 would provide rural municipalities with the expertise necessary to ensure that they can continue to meet the increasing demands of their residents in the long term. As the province continues to grow, we are all aware of the pressures municipalities are under to ensure that their operations and services consistently meet the needs and expectations of their communities. Mr. Speaker, the province launched its 10-year funding commit- ment, the municipal sustainability initiative, MSI, to help address these pressures.

The amount given to municipalities totalled $500 million in 2008, and it’s scheduled to increase to $1.4 billion annually by 2011. The office of the municipal auditor general would ultimately seek to answer the question: are the funds received for property taxes and from the province creating appropriate and sustainable value within a municipality? This is not to say that Albertans are not receiving value for their taxpayer dollars at the municipal level.

However, with property taxes increasing and the amount of financial assistance the province is currently giving the municipalities, Bill 202 seeks to create an additional level of support and accountability at the municipal level. This would seek to ensure that Albertans are receiving the maximum value for money for municipal services and programs. The municipal auditor general would have the authority to conduct an objective performance audit of any area within a municipality deemed appropriate.

March 9, 2009 Alberta Hansard 287 To be clear, Bill 202 does not intend to conduct a yearly perfor- mance audit of all Alberta municipalities. Municipalities would have a performance audit conducted at the discretion of the munici- pal auditor general. This discretion would be based on consultation with the financial auditors, municipalities, or concerns from the public. In

summary, the municipal auditor general would help municipali- ties ensure that they are spending taxpayers’ money in the most efficient and effective way possible. I anticipate the municipal auditor general to become a centre for best practice of municipal operations. The office would encourage intermunicipal co-operation by recommending areas where municipal partnerships would benefit both parties. Mr. Speaker, the auditing process is crucial to all areas of our society as it gives us an objective perspective on spending.

I think that any measure we can take to strengthen auditing at the municipal level is good for our province. I look forward to hearing my colleagues’ comments and urge them to support this cost-saving measure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Ms Notley: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be able to rise to speak to Bill 202.

It’s certainly an interesting bill, obviously geared, I suppose, in some respects toward improving certain areas of functioning within municipal government, but it is a bit surprising to see a bill like this coming fr om someone from this particular government caucus, I would suppose, just based on, you know, some of the attitudes that we tend to have here provincially vis-à-vis our own relationship with the federal government.

It is a bill, of course, as has already been mentioned, that would empower the minister to appoint a municipal auditor general, who would then engage in audits of municipalities that would ultimately be reported to the provincial minister, and then there would be various authorities with respect to following up on that.

I think that in the introduction of this bill the member spoke about how provin- cially we have an Auditor General, and federally we have an Auditor General, although I’m pretty sure that provincially we don’t have an Auditor General that audits us and then reports to the federal government or vice versa.

I can’t imagine that as a province we would agree to that kind of arrangement, so I find it a bit interesting that municipally we would appoint an auditor general and then have municipal governments having audits that were being reported back to us, the provincial body. [The Deputy Speaker in the chair] At the end of the day this is a bill that impinges rather signifi- cantly on municipal autonomy. This is something that I think is problematic. Municipal government is growing and developing across the country. Municipal government is not a level of govern- ment; it’s actually a separate order of government.

That independ- ence to a large extent needs to be acknowledged notwithstanding the way in which it first came about. We also need to look at, politi- cally, how these municipalities have evolved. We know that municipalities have been asked to take on larger and larger and larger levels of responsibility within our communities and within our societies. We know that they have in many cases stepped up to the plate in that regard. We also know, frankly, certainly in Alberta, that the level of engagement at the municipal level for the average person is as high as it is provincially.

I am concerned about the idea of exercising even sort of more centralized control over individual municipal governments. I respect the need for having high standards and ensuring that there are high standards and transparency and all those kinds of things, but it would seem to me to be a little arrogant and a little wide-reaching to march into the municipal sector and ask for this level of oversight and control. 3:40 The Municipal Government Act already has provisions for independent audits of municipal finances.

As it is, municipalities must already submit annual financial statements and auditors’ reports to the minister, and the minister already has the power to set requirements for financial reporting and auditing. A minister may at this point appoint an auditor to audit the books of a municipality at the request of at least one-third of the council or on petition by the electors.

I think that these kinds of limits allow for intervention where necessary, but it ensures that the intervention is only where necessary as described or as acknowledged by either the municipal councillors themselves in any given municipality or at the request of the electors. Finally, where the auditor is appointed under this process, again the legislation already gives them access to these municipalities’ records and their data.

I’m not sure exactly how this bill will move forward, but at this point we have some concerns about the apparent intrusion that this might represent into the political autonomy of municipal govern- ments across our province. It is for that reason at this point that we are unlikely to consider supporting the bill. Although, again, we certainly invite the opportunity to hear and consider and weigh the debate as the bill progresses, if it does. Thank you. The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Ms Pastoor: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a very interesting bill for someone who has come out of the municipal sector and actually was elected as a municipal councillor. I think my first and foremost comment on this would be that should there ever be such a person, I certainly would be opposed to their reporting to the minister. If there’s going to be such a person, they’d have to report to this House. That is far too narrow a scope that the minister would have over the municipal actions. It has to come to the House.

It has to be someone that we could feel very confident in, that was actually independent and had done their homework without any oversight or the feeling of being overseen by a minister of the Crown. It really has to come to the House. My other question would be: who would pay for this? I’m just wondering if there’s any level of government at this point in time that has any extra money. I believe that one of the costs that I heard was $700,000. I know it doesn’t sound like a lot when we’re talking in billions, but it’s an awful lot to create 700,000 new dollars.

So that would be a question: who’s going to pay for it? Certainly, I don’t think any of the municipalities, including the big cities, would want to absorb that kind of cost, nor do I think that the provincial government at this point in time can drag up that kind of money out of the sustainability fund or any other little slush fund they may have hidden somewhere. Auditors usually can’t fix the messes that they find, but they can identify them and make very specific recommendations based on analytical data. So there is an argument for having an auditor.

Auditors can’t make policies, good or bad, and certainly auditors can’t reflect on the behaviour of a particular municipality. That really is the responsibility of the elected people. Again, it’s up to the people that elect them if they think that their behaviour has not been what it should be.

Alberta Hansard March 9, 2009288 However, there is an argument to be made for smaller municipali- ties that, as has already been mentioned, really can’t afford to have these extreme audits and the time that it takes to actually dig through books and go back in time and actually compare the audit against the bylaws or the laws that they have made at that level. So there is an argument to perhaps help those municipalities in some fashion, particularly if the citizens of that particular municipality are complaining.

I believe that in the province today there is one municipality that is certainly having difficulties, and the citizens are getting a little excited about the accountability of their council. It has already been mentioned, too, that it could interfere with the autonomy of municipalities. It has also been mentioned over the last 10 years, certainly since I was elected, that there is more and more – the word used, I believe, from my colleague was “responsibility.” Of course, I’m calling it downloading.

There have been responsibil- ities downloaded onto municipalities without the dollars to follow to ensure that those programs, particularly on the social side, are actually adhered to. So, certainly, money would be a question. I think this bill is interesting to me as well because I can actually argue both sides. I can argue for and I can argue against, which doesn’t really put me out of line with anyone that I’ve spoken to nor with some of the groups that are out there: the city of Calgary, the AAMD and C, and the AUMA. If I’m correct, the AUMA has come out with a position against.

CFIB and the Canadian Taxpayers Federation are in support of a provincial municipal auditor general. I believe that, of course, their approach would be from the taxation point of view: are they really using their dollars wisely so that they can control the mill rates in a better fashion? From the people that I’ve spoken to, I believe that there is a mixed bag out there, some for and some against.

I guess what I’d like to say is that this is a bill that I would like to see go maybe even to the committee level where there could be more discussion and perhaps a longer time to have a chance to take a look at this because people out there really aren’t either firmly for or against. They actually can sort of argue both sides. I thin k this bill needs more time to have stakeholders look at it and get some more information on it. When I spoke to people, the reaction was mixed for and against, but the reaction was also mixed, which interested me, as to whom it actually should report.

Some thought the minister was fine, and others thought no, that if there was somebody, it should report to the House. That’s why I think that this bill does requi