H0429pm 07

H0429pm 07

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, April 29, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 31, Number 7 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, April 29, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 11703 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 11704 University Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 34) Hon. M. Coell Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act (Bill 39) Hon. B. Penner Residential Tenancy Act Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill M205) D. Thorne Lutheran Camp Concordia

(1992) Society (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2008 (Bill Pr402) R. Cantelon Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 11705 Ed Chynoweth B. Bennett Ann Elmore Haig-Brown C. Trevena ActNow B.C. I. Black Heritage fair in Port Alberni S. Fraser Trees and Arbour Day events in B.C. M. Polak Constituency assistants C.

Puchmayr Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 11707 Funding for post-secondary education C. James Hon. M. Coell Funding for adult students with special needs C. James Hon. M. Coell C. Puchmayr D. Thorne Funding for post-secondary education R. Fleming Hon. M. Coell J. Kwan Release of report on B.C. Place roof N. Macdonald Hon. S. Hagen Tree farm licence land removals on Vancouver Island D. Routley Hon. R. Coleman Community consultations with Roundtable on Forestry C.

Trevena Hon. R. Coleman B. Simpson

Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 11712 Medicare Protection Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 21) (continued) N. Macdonald J. Rustad C. Trevena R. Sultan C. Wyse B. Ralston M. Sather D. Chudnovsky J. Horgan M.

Karagianis Speaker's Statement ............................................................................................................ ................................................... 11742 Rules for public bills in the hands of private members Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 11742 Estimates: Ministry of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics (continued) J. Kwan Hon. C.

Hansen B. Simpson G. Coons C. Trevena J. Brar Estimates: Ministry of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors' and Women's Issues Hon. I. Chong C. Wyse C. Trevena G. Gentner

11703 TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members C. James: I have two guests in the gallery visiting today. Many of the members in this Legislature will have heard me talk in glowing terms about the James Bay Community Project and the good work it does in our community as well as in primary health care. Today in the gallery I have Hanne Fair, who is the executive manager of community and family pro- grams, and also the chair of the James Bay Community Project board, who is involved in a number of activi- ties.

I think it's fitting that she's here during Volunteer Week because this is someone who in fact holds up the volunteer organizations in greater Victoria. She is a community activist. She is someone who has provided incredible mentoring in standing up for yourself to m a n y p e o p l e i n o u r c o m m u n i t y a s w e l l a s t o m e , i n particular. I would like to introduce my mom Mavis DeGirolamo. Hon. R. Thorpe: Members of the House, today we have 45 federal and provincial senior tax officials visit- ing in British Columbia.

British Columbia is co-hosting this national meeting, and I would ask all members of this House to make these officials welcome in British Columbia. Hon. T. Christensen: I t ' s m y p l e a s u r e t o w e l c o m e three young people today who were good enough over the lunch hour to help launch a new work experience and cultural exchange pilo t program for aboriginal youth in our province. We are joined, firstly, by Stan Williams. Stan is a special adviser on youth initiatives with the Ministry of Children and Family Development, and he is coordinator of the ministry's Youth Advisory Council.

Joining Stan we have two very special guests, two of our aboriginal interns wh o have been working with the ministry over the course of this last year — firstly, Don Tom of the Saanich Nation and, secondly, Ellen Newman of the Haida, Kwagiulth and Coast Salish nations. Both of them have been doing excellent work building relationships between the ministry and first nations. I would ask that the House please make all three of these young folks very welcome. Hon. S. Hagen: This week we are celebrating National Volunteer Week.

In this province over one and a half million British Columbians volunteer an average of almost 200 hours a year. I was pleased to host several of these volunteers from Victoria in my office today for lunch, and they are now seated in the gallery. Accompanying Lori Elder of Volunteer Victoria are Norman Ellison, Ted Simmo ns, Henry Minto, Derek Swallow, Helen Taylor, Barbara Dunahee, Kathy Reid, Bruce Ingram, Flo-Elle Watson, Joseph Boutilier and Sylvia Bachop. Would the House please join me in thanking them for their dedication to greater Victoria, making it a vibrant, healthy community.

Also joining us today in the House is Rick Brant, who is the chief executive officer of the Cowichan 2008 North American Indigenous Games host society. With less than 100 days until the opening ceremonies, Rick and his team are working hard to make the Cowichan games the larg- est and most successful games to date. Would the House please join me in making him feel welcome. Hon. I. Chong: Today I'm pleased to introduce a class of grade 5 students al ong with their teacher Mr. Chan and some parents, who are touring the buildings and are now joining us for question period.

Among the students is one in particular that I'd like to acknowledge, and that is the grandson of the Clerk of the House, Mr. MacMinn. That's Grant Nicholson. I would ask the House to make Grant, his classmates, the parents and teachers all welcome. D. Routley: I would like to introduce to the House a neighbour of mine. Nick Wade has come with me on a job shadow today. He's an 18-year-old high school student who was born about a year after my family moved in down the street from his. His older sister and my daughter grew up together. He's a very aware young man.

He's very concerned about our province, and he's come here to get a taste of what it's like in this building and what it's like to see political process underway. I'd like the House to please make him welcome to this place. [1340] I'd also like to join the Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts in welcoming Rick Brant to this House. He is the CEO of the NAIG games, and it gives me one more opportunity to invite all these members to Cowichan this summer for the 2008 North American Indigenous Games. It's going to be a wonderful bridge between communities. Everyone is volunteering.

So to all the people of B.C., come to Cowichan this summer. Hon. M. Coell: I have a number of guests joining us in the Legislature today: from Capilano College, the president Greg Lee; from Em ily Carr Institute of Art and Design, their president Ron Burnett and chair George Pedersen; from Kwan tlen University College, Skip Triplett, their presiden t; from Malaspina Univer- sity College, Ralph Nilson, their president, and Robin Kenyon, their chair; from University College of the Fraser Valley, their presiden t Skip Bassford, their chair Rob Nicklom and his wife Orla. Would the House please make them welcome. Hon.

W. Oppal: I would like to introduce 140 stu- dents accompanied by their teacher Chris Ascher from David Thompson Secondary School in my riding. Would the House please join me in welcoming them.

11704 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 Hon. B. Penner: Once upon a time I attended Sardis Elementary School and had a teacher by the name of Mr. Adrian Stoutjesdyk. Today he's the prin- cipal of Mount Cheam Christian School, and he's here with 23 of his students doing a tour of the Legislature. I ask that the House please make them all welcome. R. Hawes: Joining the university presidents in the gallery is the president of the University College of Fraser Valley Student Union, Mario Miniaci. Could the House please make Mario welcome.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills UNIVERSITY AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 Hon. M. Coell presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled University Amendment Act, 2008. Hon. M. Coell: Mr. Speaker, I move that Bill 34, University Amendment Act, 2008, be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. M. Coell: I'm pleased to be here today to speak about the amendments to the University Act. This legislation paves the way for special purpose teaching universities to be created in this province.

It includes amendments to the University Act, setting out the general mandate of a special purpose teaching university. These new institutions will focus on teaching excel- lence. They will also conduct applied research and scholarly activities that support their programs. The amendments allow special pu rpose teaching universi- ties to be designated by regulation, further defining the specific mandates and programming of each institution as well as the region it serves. The amendments will create a separate senate for each special purpose teaching university.

They also include a new process for appointing university chancellors. Finally, the legislation includes amendments to ensure a smooth transition to university status for these institutions. Hon. Speaker, I move that the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 34, University Amendment Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION (VEHICLE EMISSIONS STANDARDS) ACT Hon. B.

Penner presented a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Stan- dards) Act. Hon. B. Penner: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. [1345] Motion approved. Hon. B. Penner: I'm pleased to introduce Bill 39, the Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act. This bill is a component of the government's climate change strategy.

We took our first step in the fight against climate change with the enactment of the Greenhouse Gas Re- duction Targets Act last No vember, setting out targets to reduce British Columbia's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 33 percent below 2007 levels by 2020 and by 80 percent by 2050. The Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emissions Standards) Act will help us achieve those targets by put- ting in place vehicle greenhouse gas, or GHG, emissions standards for new light-duty vehicles such as cars, SUVs and minivans.

These standards will be equivalent to those identified in the state of California and will become more stringent for each model year until 2016. When fully implemented in 2016, the standards will achieve a reduction of pers onal vehicle GHG emissions of nearly 600,000 tonnes annually in British Columbia. This amount is over and ab ove the reduction expected from the new vehicle fuel efficiency standards adopted nationally in the United States and committed to as a new minimum by the Canadian federal government.

Compared to current voluntary fuel consumption standards in Canada, this is a reduction of approxi- mately one million tonnes annually in B.C. in 2016. The standards will also translate into significant fuel cost savings for British Columbian drivers. In addition to setting GHG emissions standards for new vehicles, the act will require larger vehicle manufacturers to include a percentage or set number of zero emission vehicles in their fleets each year. This requirement will be based on California's general ap- proach and will target both GHG emissions and air pollutants.

The act enables manufacturers to generate credits for vehicle GHG emissions that more than meet the requirements. These credits will be transferable be- tween manufacturers and model year of fleets as a flexible compliance approach, following California's model. Mr. Speaker, 17 U.S. states have adopted or are in the process of adopting the California model, while six others are actively considering it. Twelve out of Canada's 13 provinces and territories have indicated support for tailpipe greenho use gas standards, with Quebec now in the process of making final revisions to its draft regulations.

Including British Columbia, the population of jurisdictions adopting the California model totals 176 million. If that were a country, it would be the sixth largest in the world. Mr. Speaker: Could the minister please put the question.

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11705 Hon. B. Penner: Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 39, Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Vehicle Emis- sions Standards) Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. RESIDENTIAL TENANCY ACT AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 D. Thorne presented a bill intituled Residential Tenancy Act Amendment Act, 2008. D.

Thorne: Today I move introduction of the Residen- tial Tenancy Act Amendment Act, 2008, for first reading. Motion approved. D. Thorne: It gives me great pleasure today to be introducing a piece of legislation that amends the Resi- dential Tenancy Act to provide more protection for tenants. It increases the amount of notice that a land- lord must give a tenant in the event of renovations that require the tenant to vacate their residence and of con- version to strata title. It increases the compensations payable to tenants in these circumstances.

It also allows the tenant the right of first refusal, giving them the option of continuing residence follow- ing the renovations or conv ersion, and prohibits the landlord from raising the rent any more than would otherwise be lawful. Finally, it allows the tenant increased time to pay overdue rent or dispute an eviction notice and increased time before eviction due to the non-payment of rent.

This act is an acknowledgment of the imbalance of power that exists between landlords and tenants, par- ticularly with regard to the many avenues available for landlords to eject tenants with very little notice and compensation. With this act, British Columbia recog- nizes and protects the rights and interests of tenants in a way that is fair and reasonable to landlords. I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

Bill M205, Residential Tenancy Act Amendment Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. LUTHERAN CAMP CONCORDIA

(1992) SOCIETY (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2008 R. Cantelon presented a bill intituled Lutheran Camp Concordia

(1992) Society (Corporate Restora- tion) Act, 2008. R. Cantelon: I move that a bill entitled Lutheran Camp Concordia

(1992) Society (Corporate Restora- tion) Act, 2008, of which notice has been given on the order paper, be introduced and now read a first time. Motion approved. R. Cantelon: As the title implies, this is

an act to restore the incorporation of a very worthy organization and bring it again into good standing. [1350] I move that the bill be refe rred to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Bill Pr402, Lutheran Camp Concordia

(1992) Society (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and referred to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) ED CHYNOWETH B. Bennett: On April 22 one of Canadian hockey's great pioneers and builders, Ed Chynoweth, passed away at the age of 66. Ed was president of the Kootenay ICE and chair of the Wester n Hockey League board of governors. Ed brought the ICE to Cranbrook in 1998, and he insisted at the time that the team be known as the Kootenay ICE. Cranbrook and the Kootenays are better off because of Ed's leadership, and incidentally, Ed would want me to say this. The ICE have had the top- winning percentage in the WHL since Ed brought the team to the Kootenays ten years ago.

He was a big man with a big personality — dynamic, strong, always posi- tive, with rock-solid integrity. Ed Chynoweth was the co mmissioner of the WHL from 1972 to 1995. He brought the Quebec League and the OHL — that's the Ontario Hockey League — together with the WHL in 1973 to form the Canadian Hockey League. Now there ar e 60 teams from east to west in two countries, and players come from all over the world to compete in the Canadian Hockey League. Ed was president of that league from 1975 to 1995.

In 1981 Ed forged a relationship between the CHL and Hockey Canada that allowed for Canada's best juniors to compete in the world every Christmas. My wife and I try not to miss any of the world junior tour- nament that appears on television each Christmas. It was a great honour and a privilege to drop the puck before the championship game in Vancouver between Canada and Russia in 2006, and of course, Canada won 5-nothing. One of Ed's proudest accomplishments is the WHL's comprehensive post-secondary education plan — one year of books and tuition for each year played in the WHL.

That's a significant part of Ed's rich legacy. Ed Chynoweth built the WHL, and in his honour last year, the league renamed their league championship trophy the Ed Chynoweth Trophy.

11706 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 Ed is survived by his wife of 45 years, Linda, and his two sons: Jeff, who is the general manager and VP of the Kootenay ICE, and Dean, who is the general manager of the Swift Current Broncos. Ed's funeral will b e h e l d i n C a l g a r y o n M a y 5 w h e r e , n o d o u b t , m a n y hockey luminaries will come together to celebrate one of Canada's great hockey men, Ed Chynoweth. ANN ELMORE HAIG-BROWN C. Trevena: I h a v e s p o k e n i n t h e p a s t a b o u t Roderick Haig-Brown. Today I'd like to talk about Ann Elmore Haig-Brown.

It's almost too easy to say "his wife." Yes, she was his life partner and true companion, but Ann Elmore Haig-Brown was a remarkable woman in her own right. Like her husband, she was a conser- vationist and an intellectual. She was a librarian, and she was a teacher. She was a very strong advocate for women. Before Campbell River had a shelter for women flee- ing abuse, Ann Elmore often took women into her own home. Even after the transition house named in her hon- our opened in late 1987, Ann Elmore continued to take women in.

She said at that time, the time of the naming of the house, that it was much easier to find a bed for a sister in need than to make a speech of thanks, and she also said that women must stick together. Now the Ann Elmore Transition House provides shelter for more than 250 women and children a year. Ann Elmore was a community activist, a fighter for social justice, an honourable woman who was highly respected. May 3 marks the 100th anniversary of her birth. As part of an ongoing celebration of the Haig-Browns this year, there's been a lecture series on women's issues, on harm reduction and on restorative justice.

On Saturday there will be a celebration at Haig-Brown House in Campbell River when the city will mark the day as Ann Elmore Haig-Brown Day. At the time of Ann's death in 1990, her daughter Valerie said: "When you think of my mother, plant a tree." So as part of the celebration on Saturday, there will be a commemorative tree planting. I invite all members of the House to come to the celebration on the banks of the Campbell River and to mark the anni- versary and the legacy of this remarkable woman. ACTNOW B.C. I.

Black: In 2005 our government announced a no- ble goal — to be the healthiest ju risdiction ever to host the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Since the launch of the ActNow ministry and the work of its many part- ners, what we're witnessing is a resonance with the public of that message, that healthy living goal. [1355] While it's rewarding to see the ActNow programs receive international acclaim from the World Health Organization for the third time since November, what is really inspiring is how a call to action has been em- braced by our communities , our families and our school children across British Columbia.

Last year almost 86,000 British Columbians visited the ActNow B.C. mobile pavilion. This year's 20-city tour is stopping in my city of Coquitlam on May 29 through June 1. I've already had conversations with school teachers in Coquitlam and Port Moody who are excited about bringing thei r school kids, and they're going to walk there. Those of us who took the opportunity to visit the pavilion earlier today saw its terrific balance of interac- tive games — I personally liked the piano — education and the health assessments.

Some 1,852 people received such ActNow health assessments last year, with almost 70 percent of them saying that they would seek medical advice and/or make lifesty le changes based on their experience. The word is getting out. The mobile pavilion is still on the people's front lawn from the recent Victoria Times Colonist 10K run where over 10,000 people participated with 3,000 of them in the ActNow walking category. There were 54 government teams, up from 39 last year, with 1,200 government employees participating.

In addition, when my eight-year-old and I ran the Vancouver Sun Run two weeks ago, we were part of over 59,000 total participants — another record — 24,000 of whom were in the ActNow walking category. Please join me today in celebrating the hundreds of thousands of British Columbians who are embracing a change in lifestyle, the mess age of investing in your health, and the simplicity and fun inherent in being active and eating properly. HERITAGE FAIR IN PORT ALBERNI S. Fraser: One of my favourite events of the year is the annual heritage fair at Ec ho Centre in Port Alberni.

The event is put on through the Alberni Valley Museum. The dedicated volunteer committee has been doing this for six years now. This Friday, May 2, local students from Maquinna, E.J. Dunn, John Howitt and Wood elementary schools will join other students from central and north Island to participate in this two-day extravaganza. The students are travelling from as far as Ucluelet, Courtenay and the Comox Valley. The students create fantastic heritage projects which are displayed in Echo Centre for public viewing and for judging by panels of local judges. The judging is the hardest part, I know. I am one.

These hard-working students are in for a real treat. They get to participate in a variety of workshops and get to ride to McLean Mill on the Alberni Pacific Rail- way. How fitting for a heritage fair. This vintage train is a steam train from the past, and it's full of exciting surprises, which I will not allude to yet. Old Steam Logging Locomotive No. 7 travels through scenic Alberni Valley to deliver the kids to the mill, which is a national heritage site. It's the only steam-operated sawmill left in Canada. It's an exciting step into the past, into another era.

Meanwhile, we judges will be locked in mortal combat. After a lengthy viewing process and inter-

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11707 views with the students of course, the judges are locked in a room to duke it out — a vicious tug-of-war trying to decide who will ultimately be chosen for awards. Very difficult. They're all award-inspiring. In the end, the overall winner will travel to the na- tional heritage fair, which is in Victoria this year. Hats off to all the volunteers an d the museum staff and es- pecially to the participating students. You are all win- ners in my eyes. TREES AND ARBOUR DAY EVENTS IN B.C. M.

Polak: Over British Columbia's 150-year history, trees have been an integral part of industry and everyday life. Our heritage from the time of British Columbia's first peoples is inextricably linked to trees. Since the 1930s when reforestation began, six billion trees have been planted across the province. In fact, on April 17 the six- billionth tree was planted in Kelowna — a ponderosa pine. A lot has changed since the 1930s. Today communi- ties across B.C. are embracing the importance of trees like never before.

Their excitement at being part of a greener and healthier province is evident in the enthu- siasm displayed at community arbour days every year. This year on April 27, the township of Langley held Arbour Day festivities in South Aldergrove Park that saw 150 trees planted in honour of British Columbia's 150 years. Community leaders and residents planted trees in memory of loved ones. The Kwantlen First Nation participated by leading us in song and prayer.

M o s t i m p o r t a n t l y , o n t h a t d a y a f o r m e r t o w n s h i p councillor, the late Muriel Arnason, was honoured with the planting of a black hawt horn tree by her daughter Petrina. As we look ahead to another 150 years, the memory of pioneers like Muriel, who was a staunch advocate for green initiatives, will serve to remind us of the importance of trees. As we reach toward our goal of net zero deforestation, we're off to a good start. [1400] Forests for Tomorrow will see an additional 60 mil- lion seedlings planted over the next four years.

We can all do our part, and I look forward to next year's Arbour Day and a chance to plant another piece of B.C.'s history. CONSTITUENCY ASSISTANTS C. Puchmayr: They say that behind every successful MLA, there are great constituency assistants working at the local level. There is no doubt that our constituency assistants play a critical role in the functioning and the governance of our province. They serve the members of each community in the province and enable us to perform our duties. They keep their fingers on the pu lse of the community while we are away at the capital.

They follow up on our work with constituents, and they strive to unshackle the many barriers to access government and ministries and their programs. In my community we have a very high workload that can only be fulfilled wi th the assistance of the pro- fessional advocates that we call our CAs. They work with seniors on shelter and health care issues. They work with homeless people needing assistance, many of them with psychological maladies. They work with doctors and health care professionals, community and business groups, just to mention a few.

Our offices throughout the province are non-partisan and are accessible to all in dividuals and organizations needing assistance. Some of our ridings are geographi- cally large, with communities spread over such a distance that they require two and sometimes three satellite offices. There is no way that MLAs can be everywhere at once, and we rely on our constituency assistants to work with our constituents and to act as our representatives in our absence.

Look in the blue pages or the phone book or google us, and chances are that the first contact to your MLA will be a professional, hard-working constituency assis- tant. I invite all members of this House to join me in thanking these dedicated individuals for all of their hard work, because they tr uly are the unsung heroes on the front line of the community needs. Oral Questions FUNDING FOR POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION C. James: Over the last month colleges across British Columbia have been cutting programs, laying off faculty and downgrading services. The reason? The B.C.

Liberals pulled the rug out from underneath them. The Minister of Advanced Education single-handedly changed the funding formula midyear, midterm. As a result, we see colleges that are facing shortfalls and valuable programs that are being axed. In a letter to her board, Susan Witter, the president of Douglas College, called the minister's funding scheme unbalanced. She soun ded the alarm about sig- nificant negative impacts on the entire college system. My question is to the Mi nister of Advanced Educa- tion.

Can he explain how hi s widespread cuts, brought on by his broken promises, actually help people access higher education in British Columbia? Hon. M. Coell: Only the NDP would think a $68 million increase in a budget is a cut. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister, just take your seat. Members. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Continue, Minister. Hon. M. Coell: Only the NDP would think that spending $1.7 billion on infrastructure was harming colleges and universities. The creation of four trades

11708 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 complexes — one at BCIT, one at Kwantlen, one at the University of the Fraser Valley, one in northern B.C. — producing thousands of seats for trades and technol- ogy in this province…. Only the NDP would think that was harming education. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. [1405] FUNDING FOR ADULT STUDENTS WITH SPECIAL NEEDS C. James: The only response from this minister to the people across this province who are losing pro- grams and services is: "No big deal. Don't worry about it.

It's nothing." Well, let's take a look at the programs that are being cut. In Prince George at the College of New Caledonia, four adult special education programs are on the chop- ping block. "No big deal," the minister says to those special education adults looking for programs. Three similar programs at Douglas College are also facing cuts. Rory Summers, the president of the B.C. Association for Community Living, calls the cuts alarming. He says they deny access to post-secondary education based on disability.

So my question again to the Minister of Advanced Education: does he really th ink that these programs for adults with special needs are so trivial that they can just be washed away — and he doesn't care and his government doesn't care about those programs? Hon. M. Coell: In the last week this government has created five new universities…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. M. Coell: I want to know whether the mem- bers in the opposition are for that. On this side of the House we're for it.

I know they're going to be against it, because they've been against everything we've done for post-secondary education. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister. Hon. M. Coell: Maybe I'll bring it home for the Leader of the Opposition. Maybe she should go have a walk around Ring Road at UVic — $200 million worth of buildings. Thousands of new spaces and a new medical school at UVic, in your hometown. Doubled the number of nurses in yo ur province. Post-secondary education in this province has never been in better shape. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

The Leader of the Opposition has a further sup- plemental. C. James: Perhaps the minister would like to take some time to sit at the public meeting in Prince George as I did, to listen to parent after parent stand up and talk about what it was going to be like for their adult to no longer have access to post-secondary education — to no longer be able to get out of the house every day and get programs and services that make a difference in their lives. That's what's being cut by this govern- ment, and that's appalling, Minister. The Premier has a great goal to support people with special needs.

How does this help support people with special needs? At Vancouver Community College vulnerable students are also facing cuts. As VCC comes to terms with a $5.8 million deficit, cuts to ESL pro- grams…. "Nothing," the mini ster says. The elimination of positions in the developmental disabilities program. "Nothing," says the minister. Downgraded counselling services and cuts to progra ms for visually impaired students. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C. James: The American sign language and deaf studies program at VCC is facing cuts. This is a unique program to B.C.

There are abso lutely no alternatives to that program. So my question again: will the minister now put a stop to these cuts and give the funding to the colleges that they need? Hon. M. Coell: This government has created thou- sands upon thousands upon thousands of new spaces at colleges and universities in this province. The thousands and thousands of new spaces go with $1.7 billion worth of infrastructure in this province, building and rebuilding campuses throughout this province to make sure we've got space for more and more students using them. [1410] C.

Puchmayr: Many of the programs on the chopping block at Douglas College are also designed to help stu- dents with disabilities and barriers. One of the casualties is a program to help students wi th learning challenges to develop workplace skills. Three other programs are for adults with barriers. Those will be cut. Losing these pro- grams will be devastating to those in need. It's the minister's fault. It's the minister that created the shortfall in the budget .

Will the minister finally admit his mistake, admit that it's a step backwards for people with disabilities, an d put those programs back into our communities where the need is? Hon. M. Coell: The member mentions Douglas College. I would invite him to come to the opening of their $34 million new building tomorrow.

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11709 Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Just take your seat, Member. Members. D. Thorne: It's not just the New Westminster cam- pus of Douglas College that is facing cuts. The David Lam campus in Coquitlam will be hard hit, and I don't think that opening a new program and closing other programs justifies one another. I can't wait to hear the minister's rationalization for my question. Here are some of the programs…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. D. Thorne: Here are some of the programs that this minister calls small.

I guess he doesn't care if these k i n d s o f p r o g r a m s g e t s h u t d o w n a s l o n g a s w e ' r e opening new buildings. Here are some of the programs: customer service and cashier training for people with employment bar- riers; the opportunities enabled program for adults with disabilities who are looking for work in the IT sector; and worst of all, the new directions, which is a program for students with brain injuries. This minister trivialized these programs and their students when he defended these cuts and said that only small programs would be cut.

How can he stand by that feeble defence when he is about to open new buildings but strip education away from so many people with disabilities? Hon. M. Coell: The member mentions the David Lam campus, and that is indeed where a $34 million building will open tomorrow with the funding for the students in it. FUNDING FOR POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION R. Fleming: The minister started his answer to the first question by saying that it's only the NDP that is opposing the cuts to the ed ucation budget this year. I think he should take some credit, because it includes the University Presidents Council, the B.C.

College Presidents association, CUFABC, FPSE. Every student organization across British Columbia is asking this minister why he failed on March 12 to honour his fund- ing commitment to his own budget. He hasn't answered questions here today as to why he thinks it's okay that programs for people with learn- ing disabilities and visually impaired students can go by the wayside. That's okay with him. I want to ask him about North Island College. Instead of receiving $700,000 in new funding, they're now cutting half a million dollars from programs.

On the chopping block for September are computer science and IT programs, campus-based applied busi- ness technology programs, and there will no longer be an adult-based basic education program that is classroom-based at the Port Hardy campus. Can the minister explai n how reducing adult edu- cation upgrade programs in Port Hardy serves our literacy goals in this province? [1415] Hon. M. Coell: I think a question to the NDP would be: why did they vote against a 40 percent increase in the budget for Advanced Education?

Why did they vote against $1.7 billion in capital construction on colleges and universities in the province of British Columbia? It's hard to imagine that they have a position on post-secondary education when they vote against it every chance they get. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: Well, it would be nice to get an answer to a question that is on the minds of a lot of British Co- lumbians, as to why this minister on March 12 pulled back his funding commitment and cut over $50 million from B.C. colleges and universities.

This government's own Campus 2020 report — this minister has failed to look at its recommendations — recommended massive improvements to student financial assistance in this province for first nations and low- income students so that they can take their equal place at our colleges and universities. B.C. has the second-hig hest debt level in the country. Tuition fees are 15 percent higher than the Canadian average. But incred ibly, in this Budget 2008, the StudentAid B.C. budget was cut by $20 million.

Now the minister's core funding cuts to institutions are adding local campus-based cuts to student fi- nancial assistance. Simon Fraser is planning to cut $1.5 million from its schol arship and bursary pro- grams and to eliminate tuition waivers for students over 60 years old. Does the minister think that cutting campus aid p r o g r a m s t o s t u d e n t s i s a n a c c e p t a b l e i m p a c t o f h i s failure to honour his funding commitments? Hon. M. Coell: I think the question on people's minds is: do the NDP support the creation of five new universities in British Columbia?

The presidents are here; the chairs are here. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M. Coell: I think the members would like to hear whether they support th e University of the Fraser Valley. Do the NDP support that? On this side of the House, we do. On this side of the House, we support Kwantlen Polytechnic University. Do the NDP?

11710 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. M. Coell: Does the member for Nanaimo support Vancouver Island University? On this side of the House, we do. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. J. Kwan: In a letter to her board, Susan Witter, presi- dent of Douglas College, called the minister's funding scheme unbalanced and sounded the alarm about sig- nificant negative impacts on the entire college system. My question to the minist er is this. Is Susan Witter wrong? Hon. M.

Coell: Every institution of post-secondary education got an increase in their budget this year — $68 million. Douglas College was one of those that got an increase, and tomorrow they get $34 million of an increase for a building and the subsidy for those stu- dents to be in those classrooms. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. J. Kwan: Is the minister saying that the president of Douglas College is wrong, that she's just simply saying this for fun and that they're cutting programs for people with disabilities just because they feel like it?

Or is it because the government is not providing the funding that they need? Will he own up to that and fund the colleges today? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M. Coell: I know the members opposite don't realize that $68 million is a lot of money. Every institution gets an increase in their budget, totalling $68 million plus $200 million in capital for this year — $200 million for capital this year. [1420] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. RELEASE OF REPORT ON B.C. PLACE ROOF N. Macdonald: Two years after the NDP warned the government about the roof of B.C.

Place, the gov- ernment is still scrambling to keep secret its misman- agement on a second Olympic venue. PavCo promised a report on options for the roof of B.C. Place at the end of March, and it is now the end of April. We have seen this before. The people of British Columbia know the government kept all information about the building of the convention centre secret , and the public found out too late just how bungled that project was. The people of British Columbia deserve specifics about the plan for B.C. Place roof. Who are the contrac- tors for this project, and what are the options being considered?

Be specific. Hon. S. Hagen: As I said yesterday in answer to the question, David Podmore is working on a number of op- tions that he will be presenting to government. When gov- ernment receives those options, we'll be making a decision. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: I'll tell you what sounds familiar. It's the government standing up and saying, "Trust us," while… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. N. Macdonald: …they hide the truth about mis- management from the people who are ultimately going to pay for this minister's mistakes.

It is exactly like the convention centre, exactly like it. There is a looming deadline, there are unknown costs, and there is no plan. The public has a right to know what is going on, because they are ultimately going to be paying for it. The minister says he's going to receive a report. Will he table it publicly so that the public knows what is going on, or is he going to continue to hide the mis- management on a second Olympic project? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. S.

Hagen: You know, I'm saddened to hear a member from the opposition slagging the reputation of a person like David Podmore, who has decades and decades of experience in heavy construction. As I've said repeatedly in this House, Mr. Podmore…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. S. Hagen: As I said, Mr. Podmore and his team are working out some options that he will bring forward to the government when he is ready to do that. As far as other comments, if the member wants to go to the website of PavCo, he ca n look at three engineering reports that are posted on the website.

TREE FARM LICENCE LAND REMOVALS ON VANCOUVER ISLAND D. Routley: The Minister of Forests has allowed the removal of lands on Vancouver Island from TFL over-

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11711 sight. When questioned, he ga ve this quote: "There are 3,300 people at Western Forest Products employed in the coastal forest sector in British Columbia. It was an important decision to help them put their business plan in place to put themselves on an economic footing to protect those 3,300 jobs." Since those statements, what have we seen? We've seen four Western Forest Products mills close. We've seen the loss of several hundred more jobs, the last mill being Ladysmith. The minister failed. He failed the communities of Jordan River and Vancouver Island.

He failed the workers by not ge tting assurances for their jobs. He failed the people of B.C. when he allowed this removal without any compensation. He states the reasons for the removal of the lands, but all his reasons fail to make sense. Will he today, before there is any sale of land, stand in this House and say that he will return those lands to TFL oversight? Hon. R. Coleman: I don't know why this member hates Western Forest Products, the people that are em- ployed by it and the communities that it serves so much.

If you take a look at Western Forest Products in one of the worst market trends in the history of the province of British Columbia, in the history of the for- est industry…. [1425] I don't know. Maybe you don't like the 175 employ- ees that are presently working at Alberni Pacific saw- mill or the 155 that are working at Somass sawmill in Port Alberni. What about the two mills in Nanaimo — 159 and 102 millworkers on top of that? As a matter of fact, hon. Member, they have seven mills operating, three reman mills and 17 logg ing operations going on Vancouver Island right now. Mr.

Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D. Routley: In fact, I'm very fond of Western Forest Products. They're a great employer in my community. I don't even hate the minister, but what I do really despise is anyone who could stand in this House and defend those actions by saying, as he said: "We re- moved some lands from a tree farm licence. They were private lands. I'm not selling them. The reality is this. You know, the member goes out and goes on about the thing in New Westminster.

Why don't you also admit to the member for Cowichan-Ladysmith that at the same time that mill was closed, they opened another mill in Cowichan-Ladysmith?" Well, I've got news for the minister. In fact, that mill has closed. That mill has closed. Just one more casualty of failed Liberal forest policies. Others — Munns Lumber; Madill, famous equipment maker…. There were many others, too many to list he re. Last week some 5,000 bidders took away hundreds of pieces of logging equipment from an auction in my riding. It was a sad day. It was a crime that it happened at all. Don't stand and blame the markets.

These closures mostly occurred before the market turned down, and in any case… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. D. Routley: …someone is cutting our logs, which are being exported raw from this province. Mr. Speaker: Could the member pose the question. D. Routley: What will the minister do today to pro- tect those jobs? Hon. R. Coleman: That's the most nonsensical diatribe I've heard in this House in 12 years. To the member: there are virtually no logs being exported from British Columbia right now, because the market is that bad for logs as well. But I just want to remind the member…. Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second. Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: The piece that I found the most sad about the member's comm ents was this. We talked about the Saltair mill reopening when I talked about Western Forest Products when we had that particular debate. The Saltair mill is still open today and employs 124 people. COMMUNITY CONSULTATIONS WITH ROUNDTABLE ON FORESTRY C. Trevena: Despite this government's best efforts, the forest industry is still the heart of North Island's economy.

But when the Minister of Forests and Range launched the Forestry Roundtable in Campbell River, almost four months after the Premier first announced it, he didn't give people much time or much notice. The minister had two meetings, one in Campbell River and one in Port McNeill. Neither was more than an hour long — an hour for forestry in Campbell River and in Port McNeill. These weren't open to the public. They weren't open to workers. They weren't open to some of the stakeholders. It was invitation only. We've got a mill going down in Campbell River.

We do know that this mill is closing in a couple of weeks, and yet the minister dismisses this in one-hour meetings. I hope that the minister isn't serious. I'm tak- ing the fact that he isn't being serious about the round tables being dismissed in an hour. I'd like to ask the minister: when will he come back to the north Island to have real consultations about the future of an industry that we all depend on? Hon. R. Coleman: It was a broad invitation list that goes out to the round table. I don't know where the member gets her information. I sat in the meeting for two hours and 30 minutes.

Everybody at the meeting

11712 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 had up to ten minutes to speak. Every one of them had an opportunity to ask questions — two hours and 30 minutes and then for another half an hour after the meeting for consultation with first nations on top of that in both communities. [1430] B. Simpson: This minister has the audacity to talk about nonsensical diatribe. In the same statement he talks about no log exports from British Columbia occurring right now. In the same statement he claims the Ladysmith mill isn't closed down. The minister doesn't even know his own file.

What bothers me most is that this minister has the audacity to say to us that we hate one of the companies that we're asking questions about. What the reality is, is that this minister so detests hearing the truth about the forest industry from the people of British Columbia that this round table that he's got going, this sham, is invitation only. It's a couple of hours maximum in communities, and we get some bullets on the webpage. I have a challenge to the minister today.

According to the bullets that you've got on your webpage, the issues are tenure security, tenure reform, forest health and waste, new social contract for communities and workers. The Leader of the Opposition has an agenda for the forest industry that could be enacted right now. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Just take your seat for a second. Continue, Member. B. Simpson: That agenda will address the crisis now… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B. Simpson: …and the restructuring that the indus- try needs for the future. My ch allenge to the minister is this.

He was in Quesnel, the heart of the mountain pine beetle, on Saturday for 1.5 hours. Will he add an hour and allow me to come in and brief the round table on how to address this crisis now? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Minister, go ahead. Hon. R. Coleman: The member for Cowichan- Ladysmith was talking about a mill that I mentioned in comment in the House, and that was the Saltair saw- mill. The mill that took an indefinite closure last week was a different mill. So you get your facts straight, and you decide to figure it out.

I get that you want to insult every company in B.C. that's just trying to surviv e in one of the worst markets in the history of North America. I know you don't care about them. I know you don't care about their capital investment or their future investment or their employ- ees or anybody else. I also find it absolutely ridiculous that the member thinks he should come and brief a round table when he absolutely refused to even recognize that it had any value in the first place. [End of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon.

M. de Jong: I call continued second reading debate on Bill 21 in this chamber and in Committee A, for the information of members, continued Committee of Supply debates on the estimates of the Ministry of Economic Development. Second Reading of Bills MEDICARE PROTECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 (continued) N. Macdonald: I have just a few minutes left to speak on Bill 21. [1435] Bill 21, I'll remind people, is what is called the Medicare Protection Amendment Act. Like many of the acts that come before us from this government, there's an Orwellian sense to the choice of words used to describe the act.

With the term "sustainability" added as a sixth principle of the principles of medicare, we have what is in essence a step in un dermining the existing five principles — five principles that have served British Columbians and Canadians very, very well. [K. Whittred in the chair.] What I talked about ear lier was just the fundamen- tal importance of health care that is based on need as opposed to health care that is based upon the ability to pay. That is something that most Canadians would point to and say is the most important, the most civi- lized part of Canada.

On something as important as health care we, as a greater community of British Co- lumbia, pool our resources. In fact, we pool resources from across Canada to make sure that regardless of somebody's situation in life, they are looked after in a time of medical need. That's something that I know the NDP, the people of this caucus, feel deeply about. In fact, it is something that the people of British Columbia feel incredibly strongly about.

When the Premier has at various times tried to put forward ideas, tried to put forward actions that would undermine health care in this province, the reaction from people is strong. In the community that I come from — and I'll just touch on a few of those things — the Premier is not trusted. This government is not trusted

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11713 on health care. There is a fu ndamental feeling that this government will work to undermine the services that are important to people in my area, and we just have to go back to the history that we have in the Kootenays. We look at the beds that were shut, the facilities for seniors that were closed. We look at a hospital that was closed in Kimberley in such a short time that it resulted in chaos.

It's something th at's still a deep wound in Kimberley, a community that contributed $20 billion worth of resources, of wealth, to this province over its 100-year history. When that mine runs out, the hospital that the community, the union and the company, Cominco, built with community funding was closed in a matter of months — and all of the chaos that that created. As you go through the riding, you hear stories similar to that, almost as dramatic as that. For all the other issues that were in front of people last election, that was the main issue — seniors care and health care.

There is a depth of feeling that goes with that. In rural areas, any attempt to move away from the idea that people in all parts of the province, regardless of their wealth…. That serv ices should be fundamen- tally different is a fundamental problem. There are always going to be challenges to providing health care in rural areas, but what we have decided as a matter of decency is that we would attempt to provide care in all parts of the province, and that's something that is fun- damentally important. As I have said before, this bill is one that defines the difference between the two parties.

Last week I had an opportunity to go into a school in Kimberley and meet with classes to talk about the Legislature and to de- scribe for them what it was like here. One of the questions that the students asked was: "Well, what's the difference between the NDP and the B.C. Liberals?" Trying to be as careful as I could with the answer, I gave some notion of what the differences, the general groupings are. [1440] One of the teachers said, "Well, basically the NDP believes more in public education and public health," and then described the B.C. Liberals. Fundamentally, that's it.

The protectors, the creators of public health, are the NDP and continue to be. Those that people should fear in this province are the B.C. Liberals and this Premier. He is not trusted. He should not be trusted on this issue, and it is an issue that is funda- mentally important to people in this province. I'll just close with a reminder to people about this whole argument around sustainability. The figures that they used initially have been abandoned because they were completely discredited. I remind them about a fact that I think sits clearest.

When we talk about health care costs being too great, we need to remember that $13 billion is what the peop le of British Columbia pooled together to look after the needs of all British Columbians and that $10 billion is spent on lotteries and put into slot machines. If British Columbians are asked, "Is there room to m a k e u p ? " w e l l , p e o p l e w i l l g i v e u p l o t t e r i e s a n d s l o t m a c h i n e s f a r b e f o r e t h e y w i l l g i v e u p h e a l t h c a r e . That's a fact that every single British Columbian knows.

So the whole argument put forward around sus- tainability — i n f a c t , t h e l a c k o f a r g u m e n t t h a t ' s b e e n put forward…. We have not heard any government member stand up and actually explain what the pur- pose of this bill is. It has been completely absent. There's been no description about what the purpose of this is. We can only guess at the meaning. Because of the record of this government, we have every reason to be suspicious. With that, I take my seat.

I look forward to the debate, and I look forward to working — if not in this Legislature, in the election to follow — to make sure that health care in British Columbia is there for every single British Colum- bian, regardless of their ability to pay, but based solely on their need. That's the civilized thing to do. J. Rustad: I am pleased today to rise to speak to the bill, the Medicare Protection Act.

Before I start, I just want to ask the member a question or just pose it rhetori- cally about the member for Columbia River-Revelstoke, who's suggesting that the peop le in this province are spending money in the way that they want to spend money — that he thinks he knows better. Is the member really suggesting that he wants to take people's money that they may have to spend on whatever reasons they w a n t t o s p e n d i t o n a n d t h a t h e k n o w s h o w p e o p l e should rather spend that money?

I mean, perhaps he's talk ing about a total socialist state where all the money would come into the gov- ernment for him to be able to allocate accordingly. However, that digresses from the purpose of this act. The purpose of this act is…. It adds a concept called sustainability. I want to talk for a second about that, be- cause I decided I'd look it up in the dictionary, just to bring it out. Sustainability is a characteristic of a process that can be maintained at a certain level indefinitely. Health care is precisely that.

We want to be able to maintain and improve services, but we have to be able to have that health care service offered over time. We have to make sure that it is there for our generations, our kids, our grandkids and th at it's there for us when we need it. Sustainability is a very interesting concept. I want to touch on this a little bit, because the member for Vancouver-Kingsway came out and said that he thinks…. We have the best health care system in Canada, according to the Canadian conference board, but he thinks that's not good enough.

What he would like to see is B.C. spend the most money of any other province in the country. Well, I find that very interesting, because what we're talking about is being able to offer quality ser- vices — not a race to see who can spend more. We want to make sure that those dollars are spent effec- tively. We want to make sure that the taxpayer has the best value for the money and, at the same time, that we're offering the best services possible. That is what sustainability is all about.

11714 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 The member for Vancouver-Kingsway also said that this idea of sustainability is the Premier's idea. Well, I have to tell you this, Madam Speaker. I'm proud that we are looking at addi ng sustainability, and I'm proud that we have a Premier who's able to stand up and take leadership on th is issue to bring forward some concepts and ideas that are going to keep our health care system vibrant and healthy for many, many generations to come. [1445] When you think about sustainability, you might ask: why is this important? What is it about sustainability?

I want to just look at a simple example about sustain- ability. If a taxpayer in this province was bringing in and earning $50,000 a year and was spending $55,000 a year, would that be sustainable? Over time, what happens is that shortfall would end up putting the taxpayer in a very, very difficult position. I'll just give you an exampl e of that, and that is our debt. In 1991 we had about $17 billion in debt in this province. By the time the ND P were finished in this government in 2001, that had grown to over $34 billion — a 100 percent increase in debt. That type of thinking is not sustainable.

One of the constituents in my riding, Paul Stevens, cam e u p to me when I was ou t at a chamber m eeting and said: "You know what? We need to see a reduction in our debt. What happened in the 1990s was totally and completely unacceptable . We need to see a reduc- tion in that debt." We have spent more than $10 billion in capital in- vestment in this province, and at the same time, we've actually reduced our debt.

We've actually been in a posi- t i o n w h e r e w e h a v e s e e n t h e t y p e o f i n v e s t m e n t t h a t ' s needed in this province — new hospitals, new roads, new infrastructure that's needed. At the same time, we've managed to maintain and lower our debt. That is what the principles of sustainability are all about, unlike what the opposition had railed on about in the 1990s. Currently we have about 45 percent of our budget being spent on health care services. Two-thirds of all new spending is going towards health care.

By 2013 it's estimated that that will rise to 51 percent of our budget — 51 percent. Just a 1 percen t increase in our budget would probably wipe out four ministries' entire budg- ets, just to try to find a 1 percent increase. The member of the opposition, the member for Vancouver-Kingsway, the critic for health care, states that he wants to see the highest spending levels in Canada here. Well, where's that money going to come from? Where would those additional dollars come from? If you're going to be talking about even a 1 per- cent increase, you're going to start talking about elimi- nating ministries.

Or is the member suggestin g that they want to see tax increases — that they feel the tax burden on the people of this province is too low, and they want to increase it? When you're talking about wanting to in- crease spending, that's what you're saying. You're say- ing that you need to bring in revenue so that you can spend additional dollars. When you talk about sustainability, you have to also think about what it mean s for us in this province. We need to attract nurses. We need to attract doctors. We need to bring people, skilled tradespeople, into this province.

You don't do that by driving up taxes and stagnating the economy. People can go anywhere they want in this country that we have. We have the best place on earth here. We're making it the most competitive place. We are attracting people. The opposition's idea seems to be that they want to crank up the taxes and drive people away, just like they did in the '90s. I find it just absolutely amazing that the opposition did not learn those lessons in the 1990s. Health care is one of th e fundamental things that government can provide. As you know, it's our largest expenditure.

We have some pretty significant obstacles coming up in health care, and that's simply because of what's happening in our society today. For example, there are more than 1.3 million people in B.C. who suffer from one or more chronic conditions, and over 90,000 people suffer from four or more. Those numbers are anticipated to grow. Chronic disease is the biggest obstacle to sustainability of our public health care system. The amount of resources required is phe- n o m e n a l , a n d w e n e e d t o b e a b l e t o p r o v i d e t h o s e r e - sources, but we must make sure that we can sustain them over time.

Some of the steps we are taking in terms of sustain- ability in this act are that we have implemented banning smoking in vehicles where children are present, and we've also banned smoking in a number of other venues around the province. [1450] From where I come from, northern B.C., there are a lot of issues around tobacco use. Tobacco use is much greater there than in other areas in the province. So these are great steps towards trying to find ways to curb that particular problem, which can reduce a whole bunch of health care issues that come from that.

We're also looking at banning the use of trans fats in the preparation of food in restaurants, schools and food service establishments by 2010. Trans fats are something that never leaves your body. Those are the types of things we need to be looking at and address- ing in order to try to create a healthier environment. Some of the other innovative things we're doing. We're promoting ActNow, and we're promoting op- portunity for physical fitnes s. Just 30 minutes of exer- cise a day and five fruits and vegetables can make a world of difference in people's health. All it takes is just a few steps.

People are healthier, and their chances of cancer are reduced dramatically — all of these sorts of issues. Those are the kinds of things we are trying to do about sustainability, and that's what is part of this bill. That's part of making things sustainable. Also, there are some other innovations that we're doing, and this is a big issue for me. As my parents age, they tend to have to go to the doctor more. Some- times they have prescriptions that need to be filled. My mom, for example, has to go to a doctor every three months to get a prescription filled. It's the same pre-

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11715 scription that she has been taking for a number of years, yet she can't just go to the pharmacist and get it done. Well, that's a change that we're bringing in so that seniors and people who need prescriptions can just go to a pharmacist and get them f illed and get them renewed without having to go through that expensive process and creating all that redundant work. Those are steps towards helping to create a sustainable health care system. Similar with nurses.

We're giving nurses more op- portunity to be able to utilize the skills that they've been trained for. These are things that help to bring efficiencies in our system. Th ose are the types of things that come from leadership and from direction that our government is giving. The opposition, which has taken no position on many of these things, just seems to op- pose. There is no plan, and there is no leadership com- ing from that opposition. Madam Speaker, when you think about health care in northern B.C…. I just want to talk about some of the things that we have also done to help make it sustain- able in the north.

Sometimes attracting doctors and nurses into the north can be challenging. So what we have done is im- plemented at UNBC the northern medical program to train doctors in the north for the north. It has already made a huge difference in the level of health care that's being offered in the north. We've more than doubled the amount of nurses that ha ve been trained, and we're training a significant number of new nurses now in northern B.C. All of those things are critical towards making health care sustainable, and those are steps that our government is taking.

Similarly, we're implementing and bringing in a new northern cancer clinic in Prince George, and we've implemented a northern cancer strategy. In the city of Vanderhoof we just implemented a new cancer service there as well. Those sorts of things help to provide the kind of services that are needed in th e north, but it's all part of being sustainable. It's all part of improving services in the areas and making sure that those services can go forward and be sustainable. This bill fulfils our government's throne speech and our commitment towards heal th care.

As I mentioned before, two-thirds of all new money goes towards health care. By putting in the principles of sustainability as well as enshrining in law the prin ciples and values that pro- vide the foundation upon which our health care system is built, it is truly an example of what leadership is and what is needed with regards to health care. I want to touch on one other thing. I've gone on and talked a little bit about it here. Health care is not about buildings. Health care is no t about professionals that provide services. Health care is about the patients that need those services.

The opposi tion critic stood in this House and railed on for two hours in some repetitive rhetoric that went on. Not once did I hear the opposi- tion critic say that patients are what the issue is and what we need to be considering. [1455] Fundamental to what we're doing with health care is making sure that patients have the services they need in this province — not wait-lists and not the strat- egy that the opposition had implemented in the 1990s, which was creating a shortage of doctors and nurses and professionals so that there was a limited amount of services that could be offered. Interjection. J.

Rustad: They reduced the number of nurses that are being trained. They didn 't expand the number of doctors that are being trained. The member for Yale-Lillooet seems to be denying that, but that's okay. He was here in the '90s when that happened, and he knows very well that that's what happened. Under our government we have seen a dramatic increase in that training. It's those health care providers that provide those services for patients, which are the core of what health care is. The Medicare Protection Amendment Act takes a huge leap.

It enshrines thos e principles that are the core, but it does bring in that new concept of sustain- ability. I know, in talking with constituents in my rid- ing, they want to see a government that manages their money well, that can provide services, that can be there when it's needed but, at the same time, respects the tax dollars that are collected in this province and manages that well. That is what the principl es of sustainability are. That is what our government has done. Clearly, from what the opposition has said, they're not interested in that. They're not interested in sustainability.

They're not interested in knowing what is in the best interests of patients. They seem to want to hit some record of being the top spenders in th e country. Well, they tried that in the 1990s, and they ruined this province. Our government will not go in that direction. You know what I find interesting? Even though the opposition members that have spoken so far have talked against sustainability, back in 1995 they brought in a plan that actually had sustainability as one of the key components. Yet now they seem to have just ig- nored that, and I think I understand why.

It's because there is a lack of leadership on that side, and they just want to stand up and oppose anything. That's very unfortunate, because I know that the people in this province, wh en they elected an opposi- tion, wanted them to be able to be effective. They wanted them to be able to speak. Clearly, there is no vision coming from the opposition. T h a t i s w h a t d e f i n e s u s o n t h i s s i d e o f t h e H o u s e and the opposition on that side of the House. We have a vision for where we need to take this province. We have a vision for how we need to get there.

We have a vision around sustainability, around fiscal responsibil- ity. Those are the driving differences. I challenge the opposition to put forward some plans and ideas. The health care critic, who went on for two hours, in the early part of his speech mentioned

11716 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 that he'd get to talking about some policies and what the NDP believe in. Well, I waited with bated breath for two hours, and yet not one thing came up — not a single one. Hon. G. Abbott: We're still waiting. J. Rustad: Y e s . A s t h e M i n i s t e r o f H e a l t h s a y s , w e are still waiting. I suspect that when future speakers from the opposition come up to speak, we will still be waiting.

I'm sure the opposition leader hasn't quite taken a position yet, so no one else wants to come for- ward and kind of give their opinion on where things should be going. I want to close by saying that our government has been taking some phenomenal steps in health care. When you look at the investments in the facilities around this province, when you look at the invest- ments in the training and providing and expanding those opportunities, when you look at…. I just want to bring up one other one in Prince George, because I'm very pr oud of the programs that we're offering in Prince George.

Just recently at CNC we opened up the new medical laboratory technologist program. That fills a huge n eed in northern B.C. As we all get older, when we go to see the doctor, we have many more exams that we have to go to, many more tests that need to be done. But you need people to be able to do those tests. Interjection. J. Rustad: The member just said that's not sustain- able. I find that very inte resting. The opposition mem- ber says that something is not sustainable.

Are you suggesting that perhaps we shouldn't be doing those sorts of things? [1500] Quite frankly, being able to do that additional train- ing means we will have the professionals available to be able to do those tests, to provide those services for years to come. We are doing that training for northern B.C. in northern B.C., throug h the great facilities that we have. Through part of the cancer strategy, we plan on doing even additional training within the north to help meet the needs of a cancer clinic in northern B.C.

As I was saying, we've been taking a tremendous amount of initiative in health care to make some changes, to bring things into a state of sustainability. When you look at a quadrupling of the rate of inflation — what our budget has been increasing over this dec- ade, quadrupling the rate of inflation — that clearly cannot continue. We need to start doing things differently. We need to look at ways that we can have more effective use of those dollars. Innovations such as at the UBC Centre for Surgical Innovation — those are the kinds of things we need.

We need to stop thinking of what we did 50 years ago and to bring health care into the 21st century, look at the challenges we're facing and be able to meet those head-on with strategies so that our children can also have the same benefits and the same type of health care systems that we have today. I'm very pleased to have had this opportunity to talk to the Medicare Protecti on Act. I am very pleased to have had this opportunity to talk about some of the great programs happening in northern B.C. towards sustainability.

For once, it would be great if the opposition would come out and — instead of having NDP or no discerni- ble policy — support what is fundamental for our province. That is proper fiscal management and sus- tainability in our services so that we can improve our services and so that they will be there for us and for generations to come. C. Trevena: I rise to speak against Bill 21, the Medi- care Protection Amendment Act. I was interested to hear the member for Prince George–Omineca trying to define sustainability, because this is what the issue is about — the addition of the principle of sustainability to the act.

As well as the principles of public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability, accessibility, we now have this principle of sustainability. According to the member for Prince George–Omineca, the princi- ple of sustainability has something to do with eating your five fruits and veggies. It seems to be a little strange, a little vague. He was talking about that and something about finances, but we really haven't seen and haven't heard a definition yet about what the gov- ernment means by sustainability.

The concern from this side of the House is that when the government puts in a principle of sustainabil- ity and starts talking about sustainability, it is one or maybe two steps towards the introduction of increased user fees and a greater level of privatization within our public health system. As we are well aware, we on this side of the House are very strongly and very deter- m i n e d l y i n s u p p o r t o f a p u b l i c h e a l t h s y s t e m t h a t i s truly public for everyone in B.C. — that the principles of accessibility and universality are underlined.

We want to make sure we do everything to ensure that it is there for people when they need it. I'd like to put this debate into a little bit of context because when people come into it, they are listening to a debate. When there are many people speaking, they're obviously not going to be aware of everything that's happening. So I'd like to put a bit of context into this debate. The bill itself is very short but I think very, very significant. I think this might be one of the most sig- nificant pieces of legislation to our public health system that we will be seeing.

This is why many of us on this side of the House will be speaking against it. In context, in 2006 the throne speech was full of issues about health care and the health system. The Premier was talking very strongly about health care, and then we saw the Conver sation on Health start — going around the province talking to people who wanted to participate in the Conversation on Health. [1505]

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11717 Then we saw this concept of sustainability start to filter in and the move more and more towards what seemed to be a privatization of our health care system. It's very interesting when we talk about sustainabil- ity because in including it in legislation like this, B.C. would be the first province to legislate this principle into its structure of public health and into its health provision — that there would be, as well as the five principles, this principle of sustainability.

Not only is it not something that any other province has done; it's something that even the federal government, which we know is a very right-wing government at the moment, doesn't want. In fact, the federal Minister of Health, Tony Clement, has written: "The federal government does not intend to open up the Canada Heal th Act. We believe there's plenty of room for positive innovation within the cur- rent legislation." Whether or not one has any faith in what the federal government is talking about as posi- tive innovation and what that might mean, there isn't a need to open it up;

whereas the provincial government has clearly decided that they want not only to open it up, but they want to put in this principle of sustainability. Sustainability is really one of the words of the 21st century that means everything to everyone. I think if you went around these chambers and asked every member what they define sustainability as, they would have a different meaning for it. Some would talk about economic sustainability, and some would talk about balancing the books. Some would talk about long-term planning. Some would talk about environment.

Some would talk about triple bottom line — that we're talk- ing about everything, all the different parts of finance, environment, social issues. All are part of sustainabil- ity. Everyone would have a different

interpretation. Madam Speaker, if you left this House and talked to people, I think there would be hundreds of other

interpretations of what sustainability meant. It is the word that means everything to everyone. However, in the context of health care in B.C., it has very much come to mean financial sustainability. When we talk about financial sustainability in health care, we start to talk about how we can maintain it. We take, as I said a few moments ago, a few steps until we start talking about increased user fees and increased privatization.

The Finance Minister last year started raising this issue when she had the PowerPoint demonstration which showed the level of spending on health care and defined this as not sustainabl e. It really created this buzz of fear and concern and almost panic of "What are we going to do?" Our health care system, the health care system that every Canadian…. I think every Canadian really be- lieves in public health care. It's one of the things that identifies us as Canadians.

I think people started to get really worried and very concerned about whether we were going to have health care for our generation as we the boomers move on, as we get older — whether our kids are going to have health care. What's going to happen — whether it is all going to crumble, whether we do need to turn to some sort of privatized model, or what? At that time, the government claimed that current health spending was 44 percen t of the budget and that it would rise to more than 50 percent by the year 2013 and 71 percent by 2017. This was the PowerPoint.

This is what the figures were that were put out there to put the health care agenda of this government into the public domain. Costs are going to rise exponentially — 71 percent by 2017. This is all very much within our lifetimes, very much within our time when we will see it. We'll never be able to afford it, so what are we going to do? We're going to have to start making sure that people pay for things. [1510] One has to ask: how accurate are these figures? How are figures being interpreted? I credit the Finance Minister. She is a former jour nalist, as am I.

As a for- mer journalist, I think the Finance Minister could tell you, as could I, that you have statistics, you have the

interpretation of statistics, and you have a story to tell. So you can, if you wish, interpret the statistics to tell your story. I believe this is what the government is doing. It looks at the statistics, and it wants to tell its story. It wants to get its point of view out and so will use those statistics to get its point of view out that the health care system is in financial crisis. Now, our point of view on this side of the House is that yes, there is a crisis in the health care system. No question, there's a crisis in the health care system.

In my own constituency of North Island, we've got emer- gency rooms closing in Port Hardy and Port McNeill, and we've got people moving from one to the other. We have patients being moved from one hospital to another, from Alert Bay over to Port McNeill or from Port Hardy to Alert Bay, depending on what's open. Yes, there's a crisis in the health care system, but our view of the crisis in the health care system is one of how it's impacting patients. The government's view of the crisis in the health care system comes down to dol- lars and cents. It comes down to the issue of: "We're not going to have enough money.

How are we going to make it happen? We're going to introduce this concept of sustainability and brin g everything down to the sense of 'we cannot afford it.'" I know there was some debate earlier in this House about how we are measuring how much the health care system is costing. I think that when people get the bold figures, they do get worried . There's no question they get worried because, as we say, we care about our health care. But the percentage of money that the gov- ernment spends on health ca re really depends on three things.

One is obviously the amount of money it chooses to spend on health care, but there's also how much money the government is spending on other items, on other p r o g r a m s . T h i s i s b o u n d t o h a v e a n i m p a c t w h e n you're looking at the proportion of money that goes on health care compared to the proportion of money that goes on other spending. So you spend on health care, and you cut on other services, as we have seen this

11718 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 government do over the last seven years. We've seen cuts in women's services, cuts in child care, cuts in education, cuts across the board. Time after time we've seen cuts, and we see that the amount that goes into health care seems to be higher. The other way that the proportion of spending on h e a l t h c a r e s e e m s t o g o u p i s w h e n y o u m e a s u r e i t against how much revenue you're taking in, and this government has cut taxes. No question, it has cut taxes.

It's getting less revenue in, so however much it's spend- ing goes up compared to the amount of money it gets in. It's quite basic and can be described quite simplistically. As other figures can be described simplistically to give the scare side, it can also be described quite simply how it's really not that scary. The member for Prince George–Omineca is talking about how this side of the House is going to tax and tax and tax and tax so that we would be spending more on health care. I would like to see where the member got that information from.

While this is obviously a way that a government can raise money, this isn't something that this side of the House, in this iteration, has ever been saying — that we are going to be doing this as a way to increase the money available for health care. I think what we have are figures telling a story, figures being delivered in a way which tells a story the way that the government wants to tell it. Those figures are being interpreted the way the government wants to interpret them — which, of course, is their right.

With their media operation, there are hundreds of people in their public affairs bureau putting out the various spin lines very regularly, working very hard down there. I m e a n , I g i v e c r e d i t t o t h e m . T h e y d o w o r k v e r y h a r d down there. They put out the information, and they can sell their story pretty easily. An Hon. Member: Slogans. C. Trevena: There are many slogans. My colleague has just said that it's a slogan. There are many slogans that can be given. The concern is that sustainability is a slogan which is insidious. It is insidious; it's creeping in. Sustainability.

We keep hearing: "We have to have sustainability; we have to have sustainability." It undermines the strength, the real strength of our public health system. It undermines the real strength of our Medicare Protection Act. I don't see why we need th is principle of sustainabil- ity. We all believe in maintaining and strengthening our health care system. We want it. Everybody wants this health care system to be sustainable, because every person in B.C., in some way or another, is relying on it.

I'm a little concerned that we even need this. [1515] I think we all know that there are private sectors already within the health care system. We all know that. Our concern is that this is opening the door to greater privatization because, again, this concept of sustainability has not been properly explained. We have doctors' offices that are already private. W e h a v e c l i n i c s . W e k n o w t h a t w e h a v e c l i n i c s . W e keep getting quoted back about clinics. We have clinics which are private. But nowhere in the world where there is just private medicine is that proven to be more sustainable.

I think we just have to look south of the border to see that a fully pr ivate system is definitely not sustainable. I come from England where there is a two-tier health care system. There is the public system, the national health system, and there is also private. If there is the money, you can make the choice. But the national health system was very strong and had a great deal of investment in it. My colleague from Columbia River–Revelstoke spoke quite eloquently about how the British system helped his daughter, because she was a child when he was in England. She didn't have to pay.

One of the other things that the British system did in its choice up to a certain point — I think it ended it a few years ago — was free dental care. This was part of the national health system that made a choice that every child would be allowed to have free dental care. Dental health was seen as part of fundamental health. This was one of the choices in that system. The other aspect that my colleague didn't touch on, because obviously he wouldn't be aware of it, is that seniors in Britain, even now, still get free prescriptions. Not a penny. They don't have to pay.

They don't have to worry about drug plans or anything. They get free prescriptions. My parents are seniors, and they both get free prescriptions. So there are times when we really have to look at what is available. Also in Britain there are free eye tests. We all have to make choices. We have to make choices about what we're going to be providing. When we're looking at what is sustainable and what isn't sustainable…. Interjection. C. Trevena: I know that the minister is trying to talk to me, trying to catch my attention, but the floor is mine. The minister has had his hour to speak.

As I was saying, where there is private health, it's not proven to be more sustainable. In Britain, where there is this two-tier model, where the National Health Service can provide good care in certain aspects…. As I say, in Britain they've chosen, for instance, to have free prescrip- tions for seniors, which I think is something that is very, very valuable. They never have to worry about that. In Britain in 2004 the National Health Service was charged 47 percent more for hip replacements per- formed by private surgical clinics than those in public hospitals.

A coronary bypass operation cost 91 percent more in private practice in England than it did through the public practice. Again, if we're looking at sustain- ability as a cost issue, we should really be looking at investing in our present health system and not creating this fear factor that our present system is not going to be able to be maintained and that therefore we have to move to the private. I have to say that this government, the B.C. Liberals, does keep perpetuating the myth — as is the political philosophy of the government side, the

TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 11719 neo-conservative philosophy — that without competi- tion, costs are higher. So we have to have competition. We have to have more privatization because that will give people more choice — this idea of individual choice — and this will bring down costs. People will have their choice. They'll be able to go out there with their $100 that they got from their envi- ronmental rebate and have that choice to spend it on their health care.

I mean, let's take this to the next stage if we bring in the sustainability and allow the sustain- ability idea to go through. [1520] Again, it's been proven that the lack of competition does not necessarily increase costs. It doesn't necessar- ily mean high costs. If I can quote from the Canadian Health Services Research Foundation…. If we were arguing that lack of competition does lead to higher costs, we would see that in countries where there are parallel private systems of care or public-private sys- tems or those market-based, the costs would be so much lower. But they're not.

In fact, Canada's costs are in most cases among the lowest. As individuals here in our system, we already pay a great deal for our health care, and I find that shock- ing. I really do. I believe in a public system. I believe in public health care. I believe it's one of the signs of our civility that we have a public system. It's one of the really strong parts of our safety net. If you do get sick, you should be able to be looked after wherever you are. But sadly, that isn't the case. We're already paying, because we are paying for essential services. If you need an eye test, you have to pay.

Any optometrist will tell you that the eyes tell you how healthy you are. Everybody knows that dental care is private, but now we're talking about having to pay for physiotherapy. The list of the number of things that one has to pay for goes on. Chiropractic, podiatry, physiotherapy, eye tests — these have all been delisted. On top of that, people are paying extra for private insurance, which covers things that the public health system doesn't cover. So we're already creating those tiers — those who can afford private insurance, those who are lucky enough to get a job where they get pri- vate insurance paid for.

You need that to get the cover- age. You need that because it helps to pay for your drugs. Like I say, God help you if you're a senior. We are, as Canadians, very proud of our publicly funded health care. As I mentioned, it really defines us, and it differentiates us. That is because access to public health care is a great equalizer. The fact that everybody ends up, effectively…. They have access to high-quality care wherever they are, whether they've got money or not, if they need it. If you get cancer, you get the same quality care largely wherever you are.

It's much harder for people in rural communities to get access to it, but we get high-quality public health care in B.C. I think the fact that quality health care is a great equalizer means that we really should be supporting that. We should be looking at what the problem re ally is. It's not an issue of financial sustainability. It's not a question of that sort of sustainability. I think it's trying to find some solu- tions, trying to find ways of making the system work for us.

For instance, I cited the issue in my own constitu- ency where we have a real question of sustainability with doctor shortages in th e north end of the Island, where we have literally constant closures of the emer- gency room in one of the hospitals — whether it's Port Hardy or Port McNeill or at times Alert Bay — which means that we're seeing people moving around. We have to address this.

We have to look at ways of dealing with this sort of sustainability, with the medi- cal sustainability, the staffing sustainability, whether we're looking at nurse practitioners, whether we're looking at increased use of clinics — how we can be very inventive, how we can be innovative, how we can really make sure that the innovation we can use comes from the people and not from changing the act to create this sense of…. There's the fear factor — putting the sustainability idea in. [1525] Instead of looking at how we're going to be shifting towards the private sector, let's start looking at some of the ideas.

As I say, the nurse practitioners are great. Let's start looking at more c linics. Let's start looking at, instead of spending a lot of money on locums, possibly using some of the money that goes to locums in incen- tives to get and keep the doctors and other people in the medical profession to stay in communities, particu- larly in rural communities. One idea that was suggested to me by a doctor was that we've got people retiring, particularly to Vancouver Island. People are retiring to the communities. How about encouraging some of the doctors who retire to practise part-time?

Get a couple of doctors, two or three doctors, to continue their practice part-time. They can still practise one or two days a week and be on the golf course the rest, and that might help. Look at different ideas. Also, invest in primary health care. We don't neces- sarily need all the bells and whistles all the time. Invest i n h o m e c a r e s o t h a t w e c a n k e e p p e o p l e o u t o f t h e hospitals, out of the long-ter m care beds for as long as possible. Look at these ways, and these will start deal- ing with some of the issues .

When we have the whole concept of sustainability, we will be tackling some of these issues. I think we also have to look at the structures that we have, the health authority structures. Instead of having basically empires growing with very centralized health authorities who want to create their own monolith, let's bring it back to the community. The community can help bring it back down to reality and make the health sys- tem, our public health system, very sustainable. The ideas are out there. Th e ideas are definitely out there for how we could make our health care system sustainable.

I think the bottom line is that people of B.C. want quality health care. They really do want high-quality health care. They do want to see that their system is maintained and sustained, and they want to see an investment in it. They want to see a commitment from their government in health care.

11720 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, APRIL 29, 2008 Other members have suggested that this is going to be a debate that will carry through the election. I be- lieve it will be a debate that carries through the elec- tion, because people are vested in health care. As I end my comments on this bill, I go back to the concept of sustainability. Over this last session I think that members on this side of the House have talked about our view of sustainability. We have a document and a philosophy on how we're going to create a sus- tainable B.C. Our view of sustainability is the holistic view of sustainability.

It is a view of sustainability that really does include a huge variety of aspects. So it isn't just the financial sustainability interpreta- tion. It isn't just the environmental sustainability inter- pretation. It is looking at ev erything with a lens of how we are going to make thi

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0429pm 07
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0429pm 07
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8c3a88bf3a87008f82061ae7ab37b2ed55082679

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).