A.' VOL. 3 THIRD SESSION OF THE THIRTY-NINTH GENERAL li..SSEHBLY OF' NF:~•TFOUNTlLAND PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PE:qiOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WF:DNFSD .ll..Y, MAY 9 I 1984 NO. 34

May 9, 1984, Tape 1428, Page 1 -- apb The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the han. the Minister of Energy(Mr. Marshall) and it is concerning Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro and CFLCo, and the false start-up of the Lower Churchill in Point Amour and Flower's Cove.

After spending approximately $150 million to get this going, the government and Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro have now decided to scrap it, and the equipment that is left there is to be put on tender. Some of the trailers and other things that were there have already been sold. But the local residents and the Labrador Strait Recreation Committee are now trying to get the largest building there to use as an indoor hockey rink. It is not large enough to be used as a stadium, they do not expect it to be heated, but they expect to get this building for this purpose.

They are willing to make it legal by paying one dollar for it. But Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro is putting all the facilities up on tender and I am wondering if the Minister responsible for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro will intervene and make sure that the Province makes this building a gift to the residents of that area for the sum of one dollar. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: the Council. 3698 Mr. Speaker. The han. the President of

May 9, 1984, Tape 1428, Page 2 -- apb MR . MARSHALL : Mr . Speaker, I noticed that the ques tion was prefaced, first of all, by a statement with re spect to the false start-up of the Lower Churchill, which the hoo. gentleman make s from time to time. I would advise him that if he has any question s to ask he could ask his new-found colleague . Because,if I remember correctly, at that particular time I luxuriated in the backbenches . The government of the day, when hi s new -found colleague was the t-1inister of Energy(Mr .

Barry), his new -found colleague was the one who was instrument al in taking that particular action. With respect to the trai lers, Mr . Speaker, I wi ll have to look into it for the hon. gentleman. But what I would advise the hon . gentleman to do is that this government , as he is aware, when its Crown agencies as well as the government is always very careful and very sensitive about the tendering process so that we operate completely aboveboard in all areas. 3699

May 9, 1984 Tape 1429 EC - 1 MR. MARSHALL: Obviously under the relevant legislation and under present policies, the practice requires that it be put up for tender. What I would suggest to the han. gentleman - I mean, one dollar is a tender and five dollars is a tender as well - is that it should be put in in the form of tender and, at the same time, I will take notice of what the han. gentle­ man says and have a conversation with Hydro with respect to it.

But I am not in the position at the present time to answer any more specifically than that except to say that it is the practice of the government to have these items put up for tender and I would suggest that the group that he refers to could well put in their tender. It does not necessarily mean the highest tender has to be accepted, if there is very good reason then we can look at it from that point of view. MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The han. the member for Eagle River. MR.

HISCOCK: Again, it is not necessarily a trailer, it is the largest building down there and Hydro is putting it up on tender. I am glad the minister has said the government does not necessarily have to accept the highest tender. Since this government is now scrapping Corne By Chance, as well as the installations" at Point Amour and Flower's Cove, and the equipment at these sites are being put up on tender, one would think that the local residents or the Province as a whole would be able to salvage some of this equipment for the youth of our Province to use for indoor sports and hockey.

The federal MP for that area has promised the residents of LaScie, who are trying to 3700

May 9, l9B4 Tape 1429 EC - 2 MR . HISCOCK : get an indoor stadium, the sum of $200 ,000 through Canada Works . Be has also made to me the verbal commitment that $200 ,000 will be allocated for the Labrador Straits area to help dismantle and re­ construct this building. As well , re si dents of the area will raise funds to make sure that this building project does become a reality , and to see the building transported from the site to one of the communities . MR . SIMMS: Which community? MR. HISCOCK: L'Anse -au -Loup, Forteau or L'Anse-au -Clair . That will depend upon the residents themselves .

But since the feqeral gove rnm ent have allocated $200 ,000 in Canada Works money for the project , is it necessary for this government to put the building up on tender? Out of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on Come By Chance, as well as the £alse start-up o£ the Lower Churchill, we should at lea st be able to salvage something so that, instead of all of that equipment goi ng to the scrap heap , some of it be used fo r the benefit of the residents of Southern Labrador . .t-1R. .MARSHALL: Mr . Speaker . 3701

May 9, 1984 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Tape ·· 1430 PK - 1 The hon. President of The hon. gentleman just made a good speech and a plea on behalf of his constituents, Mr. Speaker. I suggest that the hon. gentleman should incorporate everything that he said in the Question Period in a letter and indicate what the building is to be used for, what the prospects are of being able to finance its use and what have you. I am very glad to hear that the federal MP is doing something in the district, he apparently made some commitments.

I am glad to hear that the federal member for Grand Falls-White Bay-Labrador (Mr. Rompkey) is making some commitment to Newfoundland. It is very encouraging to hear. But if that is the case, Mr. Speaker, I know that the Liberals do not like putting things in writing. But if the hon. gentleman would like to put it in writing and put out a sensible.rational proposal with respect to it, it will certainly be looked at, but it will be looked at in the context of the tender call because we feel we have to call tenders on matters such as this.

But we will assess all extraneous circumstances that may pertain and I am sure the hon. member is quite able to describe those extraneous circumstances that positively support his position very adequately and very well. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Eagle River. MR. HISCOCK: To the Minister of Energy (Mr.

Marshall) on this point, I have been trying on behalf of the residents of Southern Labrador for the past three or four years to acquire this building, and each year I got the response from Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro that the buildings were still going to be used because they were still thinking about the Lower Churchill getting off the ground. Last year I wrote Hydro - 3702

May 9, 1984 Tape 1430 PK - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please ! I must remind the hon . member that .he is proceeding to make a speech, and it is the Question Period. Maybe M.R. HISCOCK: he should pose a direct question. A question, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Energy (Mr . Marshall): Tho se letters have already been sent. The reply I got back from Hydro is that it has to go up on tender. I am asking the Minister of Energy will he use the good services of his office to make sure that this doe s not have to go up on tender, that it can be turned over to the residents . We found an example '"here Crown land out in the district of Harbour Grace was 3703

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1431 SD - 1 MR. HISCOCK: turned over to the Legion for the sum 'of one dollar by the Minister of Public Works and Services (Mr. Young). So I am asking the minister will he undertake that this larqe buildinq will not be put up on tender but will be transferred for the sum of one dollar to maka the contract legal? HR. SPEA.KER (Russell) MR. MARSHALL: The hon. President of the Council. ~rr. Speaker, I regret I cannot give that undertaking. I mean, this is an asset which is a public asset and it is being put up on tender and we will see what the bids are.

All I would advise the hon. gentleman, on behalf of his constituents,to ensure that their tender is in as well as a description, as I say, of any extenuating circumstances that might cause us to favour the people who he is making representations on behalf of as opposed to somebody who bids a higher amount. MR .. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the hon. member for Torngat !-iountains (Mr. Warren) 1 I would like to welcome to the galleries today eighty students from Grades X, XI and XII democracy class from the Persalvic High School in Victoria , Carbonear ~istrict 1 with . their teachers 1 Mr. Lockyear and Mr.

Jerrett. SoME· HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Moun.tians. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Energy (Mr. Mars·hall) , I guess, in place of the Minis·ter of Fisheries .(Mr. Morgan) who is not in his seat. I understand that along the Northeast Coast, in particular, of the Province, because of severe ice conditions , that many of the fishermen in the Northeco.st portion of the Province are having difficulty in the lobster fishery.

And I further understand that the federal member for Gander - Twillingate went to bat at the federal level looking for some assistance 3?-04

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1431 SD - 2 MR. ~-lARREN: for those fishermen. I \-lould like to ask the acting minister if he would likewise take the concerns of the fishermen in the Northeast part of this Province to his officials to see if there could be also compensation from this government to assist the fishermen who have had a disasterous _obster fishery this year so far? 37 05

.. May 9, 1984 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Council. MR. MARSHALL: Tape 1432 NM - 1 The hon. President of Mr. Speaker, that matter has already been attended to. The member for Twillingate (Mrs. Reid) is the first person whom I remember to have made a representation in that behalf and she made that representation approximately a week ago to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) on behalf of the fishermen in the Twillingate area, and indeed on behalf of all the people on the Northeast Coast. So that is being done and we will certainly be pursuing the matter further.

But, you know,I want to emphasize we all realize the situation with respect to the ice here. We have the same problem with respect to that as we have to many of our relation­ ships with Ottawa. They are 1700 miles away and it is very difficult for them to understand the nature and extent of the ice incursions on the Island and certainly the effect it has on the fishery. The han. gentleman says the member for Gander- Twillingate; I would also say that the member for Twillingate, as well as other members in the area,have made representations on behalf of their constituents. MR.

SPEAKER: The han. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I am quite pleased that the member for Twillingate has made representations and the minister did confess that was over a week ago. Now ! would like to ask the minister, since the member for Twillingate has made the request, and since I have made it 3706

May 9, 1984 Tape 1432 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: again today, what is this government going to do about it? This is a simple question~ Is the government going to help the fishermen? Yes or no. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.

Speaker, we are going to support the member for Twillingate in her representations, as we always do 1 and the other provincial members from time to time , Indeed, in this case we would even be prepared to support the representations made by the member for Gander-Twillingate, which were made after 1 obviously 1 he saw the position taken by the member for Twillingate. MR. SPEAKER: To~ngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: The hon. member for Mr. Speaker, at least we can say that the minister has shown a little bit of concern for the fishermen, Now will they get financial help or not, Mr. Speaker?

I would like to ask the minister another question pertaining to the fishery. If he is so concerned, and he said now that he will address the concerns, can the minister guarantee this House today that those number of fishermen who have had their fishing season disrupted because of the ice conditions will get compensation from this government? Just a simple yes or no answer. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the President of Council. MR. MARSHALL: The han. gentleman is obviously playing politics with the situation.

The fact of the matter is he knows full well where financial help must come from if it is to come, if there is financial help forthcoming. 3707

May 9, 1984 Tape 1432 NM - 3 MR. MARSHALL: We have made representations to Ottawa and we certainly hope that they will receive these representations in a positive manner. 3708

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1433 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Russell) : The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) .

In view of the fact that the five year plan to revitalize the Newfoundland Railway will expire at the end of March 1 1985,and in view of the fact that containerization, modernization and computerization of the railway have been a tremendou~ success, would the han. gentleman indicate if the administration there opposite will follow the lead of this side of the House, will follow the crusade started on this side of the House to make the Newfoundland Railway a permanent service in this Province? MR.SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation. MR.DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, it is my understanding that the Terms of Union with Canada called for this Province to have a continuation of the railway. And I might point out, Mr. Speaker, that the Premier of the Province was alone in a lot of instances in supporting the railway and in putting forward a position that was not supported 1 either openly or as far as I know privately,by any members of the Opposition as it relates to problems that we were having some four years ago with the railway and some uncertainty.

The position of this government has always been that the railway should be indeed improved and not allowed to be downgraded as was the case for a great number of years from the early 1960s on. And it is due to the Province's efforts in no small way, Mr. Speaker, that the containerization programme and the evaluation process that is ongoing now,and will continue to be ongoing 1 3709

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1433 ah-2 MR.DAWE: that that particular programme was put in place and the expenditures of a great deal of capital funding into changes, into the building of containers and the implementation of that programme . As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I have ongoing meetings with the President ~f TerraTransport and another meeting tomorrow with that particular gentleman just to talk about how he preceives the evaluation has gone on so far with containerization and what his views are on the future. But ce .rtainly, Mr.

Speaker, our position is no different than it has always been, that we will continue to seek improvements, we will continue to ask the federal government to acknowledge their obligations,particularly 37 10

May 9, 1984 Tape 1'1o. 1434 HJ - 1 !"!R. DAWE: since it is part of the Terms of Union as it relates to the railway and to make that particular mode of transportation a viable mode of transportation and one that benefits the consumers and the people of this Province. HR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) Opposition. Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. The bon. the Leader of the HR.

NEARY: Of course, the hon. gentleman is aware that the Sullivan Royal Corrurission back in 1979 recoiTLmended that the Ne~rfoundland Railway be discontinued, be abandoned over a ten year period. ~no the hon. gentleman must be aware that the federal government,in its wisdom, the hon. Otto Lang who >vas Minister of Transport at the time, in his wisdom decided to implement a plan to revitalize the Newfoundland Railway over a five year period, and that five years,as I indicated,will expire March of next year. Now, I am not sure, Mr. Speaker, if I interpret his an5Her correctly.

Is the hon. gentleman saying that he will join with the Opposition in our crusade, in our lobby, to keep the Ne>1lfoun--lland ?.aihray as a permanent service in this Province ? If the hon. gentleman is saying that he will ioin · our lobbv because we do not think, Mr. Speaker - MR. DAWE: Where have. you been for the TJast four years? Nhere have you been for t~venty years? MR. NEli.RY: Hr. Soeaker, the hon. qentle!!lan has not lifted a finger up to noT"· MR. SIMMS: ~m. NEARY: been in touch. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HR. NEARY: What finger did you lift? Well, I~r. Speaker, I have already Oh, oh!

I have already made a special trip to Ottawa to discuss this matter, !~r. Speaker. Let !!le 3 711

May 9, 1984 ~ape No. 1434 HJ - 2 MR. NEARY: ask the hon. gentleman what he has done or is he waiting for the date, for the time, the five years to run out before he does anything and then blame it on Ottawa? Is that the game he is playing, l\1r. Speaker?

Now if the han. gentleman is going to join our lobby to save the Ne'l'Tfoundland Railway, would the han. gentleman indicate in his request if he will be asking the appropriate authorities, the people responsible, if he will be asking them to put some funding, make some funding available to upgrade the rail line and to make some more necessary changes and improvements to the Ne\V"foundland P.aih1ay so it can continue to prosper and grow in this Province? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr.

Speaker, ~V"here has the member for LaPoile (Mr. ~!eary) been for the past number of years? .t-~R. S IMJ,~S : MR. DA'Vffi: Supporting the Sullivan Report . The other day he used the word 1 dense 1 • Nell ,he certainly knmv-s \17hat the v•ord ! dense 1 must mean. \'Te have consistently supported the continuation and upgrading of the railway when voices opposite continued to be silent on that particular issue. I understand from my colleagues, although I '•las not here at the time, 3712

May 9, J984, Tape 1435, Page 1 -- apb MR. DAWE: that members opposite also supported the Sullivan Commission. It was not this administration, Mr. Speaker, who traded off the railway to Argentia for the road, it was not this administration who agreed to trade off a downgrading of the railway across the Province for a Trans-Canada Highway. As a matter of fact, we have consistently, and it was a matter of some debate in this particular House from time to time, we have consistently opposed that kind of a trade off scenario that has been given us from the Central government. Mr. Speaker, join his crusade?

Well, what a joke! What a joke! And I am glad to see that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) and some of his troops over there have finally awakened and realized '\'Te have a raihTay in this Province. ~·1hen : we were asking on this side, when the Premier was asking, when I was asking, ~hen this administration was asking for support from everybody in the Province as it relates to the railway, the Opposition was silent~ And today, May 9, 1984, the Leader of the Opposition, four or five years after this particular incident as it relates to upgrading, jumps up on his feet and asks the government to join his crusade. What a joke! MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, in case the hon. gentleman is prematurely senile, surely he must know that there was a Tory administration in ~his Province in 1979,when the Sullivan Royal Commission was made public. And is the hon. gentleman aware that there was also a Tory administration in this Province when the Bonavista rail line was discontinued? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. the Leader of the t"'""'!'An J I I J

..,. May 9, 1984, Tape 1435, Page 2 -- apb MR. SPEAKER(Russell): Opposition is proceeding to enter into debate and make certain statemenns pertaining to the matter at hand. I would request him to pose a question. MR. NEARY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is what I was doing. Is the hon. gentleman aware that it was a Tory administration that was in power in this Province when the Argentia rail line was abandoned? MR. DAWE: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: finished my question. MR. DAWE: MR. NEARY: Is that the question? Sit down. Sit down. l'-1r. Speaker, I am not Oh, there is more question.

And is the hon. gentleman aware that it was a Tory administration in this Province when the application was made that the Argentia rail line r.e abandoned? Where was the hon. gentleman when hearings were being heard on these two applications? And where was the hon. ~ntleman and the administration when thirty-odd railway stations were being phased out and closed in this Province? In case the hon. gentleman has had a loss of memory, Mr. Speaker, would he tell the House what administration was in power in this Province when the Sullivan Commission made its report public? SOME HON . MEMBERS : MR.

NEARY: continue on uninterrupted. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: MR. DAWE: MR. NEARY: Where were the representatives - Oh, oh! Mr. Speaker, if I may Oh, oh! Order, please! Ask the question. Yes, I am asking the questions, if the hon. gentleman does not mind. Where was the hon. gentleman and where were the representatives of the administration when 3714

May 9, ~984, Tape 1435, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: all these things were happe~ing? And while I am on my feet, would the han. gentleman tell the House ,.,hat stens, what action, I•That representation 3715

May 9, 1984 Tape 1436 PK - 1 MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : the Council on a point of order. MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Order, please! The han. President of The hon. gentleman has already been called to order by Your Honour with respect to this matter. The han. gentleman thinks just by framing his debate in the form of a question that he is in order. But, Mr. Speaker, I refer you to Beauchesne , page 130, "Question must not seek, for purpose of argument, information on matters of past history~be a speech however shortinor be of unreasonable length.".

What the han. gentleman is doing, Mr. Speaker, is making a speech. He was drawn to order by Your Honour. He is flagrantly violating Your Honour's ruling by continuing to proceed in this manner 1and I would submit that he ought to be directed to pose his question immediately. MR. NEARY: point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Opposition to that point of order. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to the The han. Leader of the Of course, in typical fashion,that we have become use to in this House by the hon. gentleman, the whole purpose of that point of order is to muzzle the Opposition. I was asking the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe) a number of questions. The ,-.hon. gentleman raised the point -of order to try to protect the minister from these very penetrating1embarrassing questions, Mr. Speaker. I would submit that I was completely in order. The hon. gentleman is out of order by getting up and trying to 3716

May 9, 1984 Tape 1436 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: harass the Opposition 1 trying to obstruct and waste time because we only have half an hour during the Oral Question Period , Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Sit down! MR. NEARY: And if the hon. gentleman would only just permit me , I have one final question to put to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe) - MR. STAGG: You are out of order. MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: The point of order must be ruled on first. Sit doWTH No, the Speaker will rule on it. That is all right. And if I am allowed to continue, if Your Honour rules , Mr.

Speaker, that I can ask my question ,I will be glad to accommodate the Chair and do so. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Name him! MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : To that point of order: The whole point I suppose in the Chair asking and suggesting that the han. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) may have been entering into debate was to try and save time in the Question Period. Indeed we do have only thirty minutes and the idea I suppose is to try and get -as many questions and as many answers as possible. MR. NEARY: Right. MR. SPEAKER: The Leader of the Opposition was being very repetitive in repeating his questions over and over.

Certainly I shall allow him to have one more very specific question. MR. NEARY: Well,my final question, then- I hope the hon. minister has made notes now of all the questions that I have asked - would the hon. gentleman be prepared to table in this House any action, any representation, any correspondence that he may have in his possession on this matter to date, recent action taken to try to protect and keep the Newfoundland Railway 3717

.... May 9,1984 Tape 1436 PK - 3 MR. NEARY: in this Province? Could the hon. gentleman tell the House what he has done in recent weeks to save the Newfoundland Railway? 3718

May 9, 1984 MP.< SPEAKER (Russell): MR. DAWE: Tc:pe No. 1437 SD - 1 The han. Hi.nister of Transportation. Well, the Johnny-come-lately is on his feet again,-Mr. Speaker, we have been dealing with this in recent weeks. Talk about the Sullivan Camri.ssion! There were parts :Jf that particular report that were accepted by this administration, by government at the time. There were other oarts of that which were not accepted1and certainly not the abandonment of the railway. It was not accepted, Mr Speaker. There~re volumes of correspondence saying just that fact. There were public statements to that effect.

But I remember my colleague saying that members of the Opposition supported that particular action! that they ?Upported the part of the Sullivan Commission Report which said, 'Do away with the railway'. MR. NEl>.RY: We were not even in power then. MR. SIM.11.1S: You were ·never in power. MR. NEARY: The Tories were in then. MR. SIMMS: You still had a position on it. MR. DAWE: To coin of phrase from the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary} 1 there is no need for him to squirm now and try to get out of it MR. SH1MS: MR. DAWE: try to say that ~ MR. SIMMS: MR.

DAWE: Right on. -to wiggle and squirm and to And squirt his venom and poison. -someone ·else was in charge. Members of the Opposition sup9orted the Sullivan Commission that said, 'Do away \'lith the railway'. MR .. S'IMMS: MR. DAWE: MR. NEARY: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: 3719 Right on. Do away with it. Do away with ;_t. A point of order! Oh, oh. Order, please:·

May 9, 1984 MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Ru.ssell/: on a point of order. M_~. NEARY: Tape No. 1437 SD - 2 A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Order, please~ The hon. Leader of the Opposition !1r. Speaker, the hon. gentleman is making irrespons-ible statements, statements that are completely false and untrue. Because, Mr. Speaker, as I said in my question, unless the hon. gentleman is prematurely senile, it was a Tory administration here in 1979 when the Sullivan Royal Commission Report was made public. we had a Tory administration. In case the hon. gentleman does not remember, the Tories took over in this Province in 1972.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. NEARY: The Sullivan Royal Commission was made public in 1979. Now, !1r. Speaker, we were not the administration of the day. How could we agree or disagree with anybody? Now as individuals we did disagree with it. MR. SIMMS: Did you have a position on it? MR. NEARY: We did have a position and our position was against the phas·e-out of the Newfoundland Railway. MR. SIMMS': MR. NE.A,RY: No, Sir. Where is your evidence? I beg your pardon. Mr.

Speaker, and all thes€ other matters regarding Bonavista, Carbonear, Argentia, the closing of the railway stations, is what I asked the hon. gentleman 3720

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1438 ah-1 MR. NEARY: to address himself to. So I would submit, Mr.Speaker, that the hon. gentleman is being very irresponsible, is trying to be catty and smart and witty, something that he cannot be. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. President of the Council to that point of order. MR.MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, just briefly on that point of order. The hon. gentleman asked a series of questions which amounted to a speech. And what he wanted to do was to try to frame his own warped

interpretation of what happened. What the hon. gentleman wants to do, Mr. Speaker, is try to spin a weave of fantasy land around it so he can believe that certain things happen that did not happen 1and all the minister was doing was responding to it. The hon. gentleman can continue on in that refrain all he wants to. Before long he will spin a little fantasy land that it was a Tory administration which signed the Upper Churchill contract. So we can leave him alone in his retirement as he is going to the senate, Mr.Speaker, he needs these little cushions to assuage his conscience.

MR.NEARY: A personal attack again. MR.SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair recognizes the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr.Neary) on a point of order,which really was not indeed a point of order but certainly a difference of opinion between two hon. members. The hon. minister has about one minute left to finish the answer to this question. 3 7 2 'l

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1438 ah-2 MR.DAWE: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. Yes, indeed it is on the record,officially to the CTC and the various other commissions that met on this the Provinc e ' s position on these issues as it relates to empleyment, as it relates to the status of the railway, as it.relates to the ongoing evalua1:ion process for containerization . And, Mr.

Speaker, it is also a matter of record that the members of the Opposition, as well as a number of other people who now see the light as it re.lates to the raih1ay 1 did not support this Province 's ongoing position as it relates to continuing with the ra-il,way and even upgrading it. Mr . Speaker, after the \vhole process of eliminating the passenger rail service in this Province, and then going on over the past number of months and eliminating passenger rail service 3722

~!ay 9, 1984 Ta pe No. 1439 MJ - 1 MR. DAWE: in other parts of Canada under a particular feder~l minister, 'tlhen the nev1 federal minister took over he said he is going to reactivate the national dream - and I said it in this House before - he is going to reactivate the national dream and have a passenger rail service again from Coast to Coast. ~he only problem with it is, Mr. Speaker, that Coast to Coast for the federal minister is from Halifax to Vancou ver. It does not include St. John' : s to Victoria. He has a very narrow idea, centralist idea of \'lhat the national dream is, Hr.

Speaker, and that is one of the proble!'ls that ,.,e have in dealing with the federal administration. But we will continue , in spite of the opposition, in spite of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) and his colleagues, in spite of their efforts to try and do away l'li th the railwa y over the nast number of years, to trade off the rail '''MV for other transportation modes, this administration has continuousl y and will continue, Mr.

Speaker, to fight for transportation modes in all facets in this Province, good road transportation links, good railway links, good airports, good air facilities, good air transportation, good water transportation, in spite of the Opposition trying to trade off what \'le already have for something that '-lle should have anywa y . Sm.!E HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) has expired. Hear; hear! Order, please! Order, please! ~he time for the Question Period li_N SvJER S TO QUESTIO NS FOP '1\TH ICH: NOTI CE HAS BFE'N GIVEN l'-1R. GOUDIE: r.m. SPEJI.KER: !-~r. Speaker.

The han. the Minister of Rural, A.gricul tural and Northern Develm ;nnent. 3723

May 9, 1984 Tape No. l439 MJ- 2 MR. GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer in response to Question l2 from the gentleman respresenting Torngat Mountains O·tr. Warren), to table, "All corresponC.ence his pepartment has had with the Conne River Indian Rand Council since January, 1979 concerning Federal funding for Indians in Conne River." I do not know what he wants it for but here it is. ORDEPS OF ~H~ DAY MR. SPEAKER (RUSSELL) : It being Wednesday 1we would normally proceed with the first Private Member's Motion on the Order Paper.

However I understand that there has been an agreement bet>Y"een both sides that 1'-Totion No. 6 on the Order Paper in the name of the member for Baie Verte - Nhite Bay (Mr. Rideout) is to be chanqed with the motion on the Order Paper by the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow). MR. NEARY: In order to accommodate the han. gentleman ,who had to be absent from the House, we agreed to nEl<:e t.l-Iat chanqe. !I!R. SPEA..T<ER: That being the case 1then I a!'l prepared to recognize the han. the member for the Bay of Islands. S'm1E HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR.

WOODROW: Mr. qpeaker, the resolution that I am speaking about today is about tourism and especially about the Western region of the Province, 3 7 21•

May 9, 1984 Tape 1440 NM - 1 MR. WOODROW~ Rather than give a speech 1 I would like to give a talk because I think in the age we are living today people are looking for recreation moreso than they did in days gone by. And I will be making some proposals today. I would like to say, incidentally, that this is the third session I have tried to get this motion debated in the House of Assembly. It is a motion that is going to appeal to all mernbers,and in particular the members of the Western region of the Province. I think I should, Mr. Speaker, first of all for the information of everybody, read the resolution. It states as follows:

WHEREAS the Gras Marne National Park has been recognized as one of the most attractive areas in Canada; and

WHEREAS the Humber Valley has long been a site for recreation and sightseeing; and

WHEREAS Marble Mountain ski facility is rapidly becoming one of the most popular ski centres in Eastern Canada; and

WHEREAS the Bay of Islands offers great attraction for marine oriented recreation; and

WHEREAS there exists additional potential for the development of tourist attractions in the Western region; and

WHEREAS the tourist industry offers great opportunity for year round employment; THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador encouraged the future development of · these attractions and of additional attractions and that every effort be made to promote this area as a major recreational centre. 3725

Ma y 9, 1984 Tape 1440 NM - 2 MR . WOODROW : Mr . Speaker, Western Newfoundland up to St . Anthony and East to Baie Verte, can be described as a park that has something to offer for recreatio n all seasons of the year, \"'hich I wi ll talk about this afternoon , and no doubt other members, especially from the Western region . The greatest drawback for people from the Mainland of Canada to reach the Western park is the Gulf run . Fo r the per per son cost of travelling from North Sydney to Port aux Basques I use the figure $10 , but the actual amount is $9 .95 . In round figures I will call it $10 .00 .

The auto cos ts $30 .00 , and, if you have a trailer with yo u, the minimum cha rge is $30 .00. 3726

May 9, 1984, Tape 1441, Page 1 --apb MR. WOODROW: If you have another person >-lith you, that amounts to $100, to go and return, for a couple travelling. So you have the return trip, and in most cases people have children travelling with them,so you are looking at, for a return trip, just for two people, approximately $200. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have said this before on several occasions, and I am going to propose it again, and I am going to propose it especially because I think we should be treated equal to all Canadians, and the proposal I am making is that the Gulf run be considered as part of the Trans-Canada Highway. It is approximately, say, 100 miles, and to drive 100 miles in you car would cost from ten dollars to fifteen dollars. I worked out a formula. Say, for example, twenty dollars per vehicle, distinguishing between trucks, trailers, tractor trailers.

Now, I do not think this is really too much to ask the Government of Canada because we are Canadians. That is the reason why I am asking it. And if this happened, people would flock to our Province. We would not be able to find enough room to keep them. Now, I understand that my colleague from St. Barbe(Mr. Osmond) will discuss the first

WHEREAS, that is, 'WHEREAS the Gras Marne National Park has been recognized as one of the most attractive areas in Canada.' He is going to discuss this part of it, and I want to zero in on other things and I am going to, first of all, Mr. Speaker, mention some of the attractions w·hich certainly the hon. the member for !lumber T·Jest (Mr. Bairc'.) knows about. I am going to mention some of them and proceed on from there. First of all1we have the marina in Allen's Cove, and each Summer there are approximately forty sailboats and other types of boats - AN HON. MEMBER: Cruising boats. 3727

May 9, 1984, Tape 1441, Page 2 apb MR. WOODROW: Cruising boats, yes - in this marina and ~ey are all going between Curling and Woods Island, especially during the Summer season. Incidentially, there are approximately eighteen islands in all the Bay of Islands, and that is the reason why, I suppose, the district is called the Bay of Islands. There are many beautiful parks in the Western region offering all kinds of attractions for visitors during 37 28

' May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1442 SD - 1 MR. WOODRm>7: all seasons of the year. Let me zero in on one of the parks,that is the Blow Me Down Park in Lark Harbour. It is a beautiful 1attactive beach,and it really is beautiful, the mountains and the trees. You may travel up the mountain to a lookout and I would say that the view is better than the one from !...lgnal Hill in St. John's. It takes in the great view of all of the Bay of Islands. MR. SIMMS: Hear, hear. MR.

WOODROW: Along the Trans-Canada Highway near Shelbert Island you will see the face of the Old Man in the Mountai~which is now becoming more known each year~ in fact, federal funding was spent last year to make it better known. The very scenic view along the South Shore 1 down through Curling and onto Lark Harbour 1 when you are there anytime stop in Frenchmen's Cove and look at Woods Island, now abandoned but once the most prominent settlement in Western Newfoundland. MR. BAIRD: Resettled by the Liberals: MR. WOODROW: View the once. the thriving Curling waterfront 1 once the hub of Corner Brook.

It still has three herring plants but employment is not like it was in earlier years. Take a drive across the Ballam Bridge and down the scenic North Shore, look at another face in the mountain at Brakes· Heights in Summers ide. Stop at Mciver's and visit the scenic beach. Pull your car onto the side of the road and look right down over the Bay of Islands again, Continue on to the park in Cox's Cove and note the waterfall there. Mr. Speaker, it is really beautiful.

And, you know, anybody who goes there, in fact, they never forget the beauty of w·hat is referred to as the Outer Bay of Islands both sides of the Bay. Now -, of course, we cannot forget to mention Marble Mountain for skiing, and I understand it is the best place East of Montreal. Many people from the East 3729

May 9, 1984 Tape No . 1442 so - 2 MR. WOODROW: Coast of the Provi nce and from the ·Canadian mainland come there to ski in the Wintertime. And much work has been done, Mr. Speaker, oy the federal and the provincial governments to promote it and it is continually go ing on. There is a chair lift there which is u.sed in the Winter and it takes the skier about 1,500 feet about sea level and gives a panoramic vie,., o f the Bay of Islands ,again 1 and, of course, of the .R.umber ·Valley in this particu l ar case . Yo u knot.,, Mr. Speaker, we also guara ntee good weather, 3730

May 9, 19B4 Tape 1443 NM - 1 ~R. WOODROW: that good weather is going to continue over on the West Coast. Now I would like to mention, too,people of course when they travel they naturally have to eat and what is becoming prominent today in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is eating fish. · MR. WARREN: Fish and brewis. ~R. WOODROW: Fish and brewis, right you are, one of the things. What I would like to mention are some of the food outlets, especially in the fish line. You can find fresh scallops in Spring and Summer in Benoit's Cove.

In fact 1 I think some of you ate them last year over in Port de Grave district. And there is a new industry- probably most of you know this, but I will mention it in any case -a new industry in secondary fish processing has been opened at Frenchman's Cove in ~ past month or so and it is known as Bayside Fisheries and it is presently employing five people. Mr. Speaker, I think I can add here, that is 1 I think,the kind of industries we need, employing five to ten or fifteen people. They process a delicious cod. It is cod in cheese sauce and it is something like cod au gratin.

And I must say it is a very beautiful dish because I have enjoyed it several times. There are several lobsterterias set up. You can find one along the South Shore in John's Beach. And note, Mr. Speaker, the beautiful names in the Bay of Islands, Irishtown, John's Beach, Frenchman's Cove, and the like, and so on. And there is also a lobsterteria in Corner Brook and I think there are others also set up along the South and the North Shore. And of course, 3731

May 9, 1984 Tape 1443 NM - 2 MR. WOODROW : Mr. Speaker, that area, ·Bay of Islands, is also known for the lobster fishery . And there are several fine restaurants in the area as well. In fact , from Port aux Basques right up the Coast, and up to Baie Verte, you can certainly find good restaurants but there is certainly room for more and for better restaurants and I feel that is going to come as time goes on . And the Western region, Mr. Speaker, is known for the best salmon fishing in any part of Canada.

There are many rivers , including rivers in and around the Codroy Valley as well as the Humber River , Big Falls and many others . MR. STAGG : River of Ponds. MR . WOODROW : Somebody mentioned River of Ponds, which is right . And also what is becoming famous is canoeing . It is becoming a famous sport also . It is done in the Humber River but it is also a pleasure to watch the sailboats, which normally anchor in Allan's cove marina , sail 3732

May 9, 1984 Tape 1444 PK - l MR. WOODROW: up and down the Bay of Islands many times during the summer months. In fact 1 when I am returning from the beautiful settlement of York Harbou~ where I have a home,sometirnes, in fact, I do stop and watch the boats because it is beautiful to see them sailing up and down the Bay. Many more things could be said and I am sure they will be mentioned by other members as well. Now, Mr. Speaker, we have been wondering what the government have been doing about the tourist industry.

Before saying that,I would like to say that we are still, as you know, under the Department of Development. It looks as though I am getting a signal. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WOODROW: kindly. By leave! By leave! Okay. Thank you very Mr. Speaker, up to date tourism,which is under Development,is tenth on the list. In fact, in the budget, there is Education, Health, Social Services, Transportation, Justice, Mines and Energy, Municipal Affairs, Public Works and Services, Forest and Lands, Development, of course, and Tourism. I do feel sure that will be higher on the list hopefully by next year. Now, Mr.

Speaker, to show what the government are doing to increase tourism on the West Coast, for that matter in the whole of the Province- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: - I would like to quote from a speech given by the Minister of Development (Mr. Windsor), who looks after the tourism 1 at the Economic Conference held in Corner Brook , April 14, 1984. "The Department of Development has long recognized the need for a less 3733

May 9, 1984 Tape 14 44 PK - 2 MR. WOODROW: centralized approach to economic development 1 and several years ago established a Western Regional office to carry o.ut our mandate in this area.

In recent weeks we have announced offices for Labrador City 1to encourage development projects in the Labrador region, and in Gander to service the central region of the Province.•' · That means they are open in the Western region, in the Central and in Labrador. ''And in recognition of the need to spur investm.ent 1 government have established what is called the Venture Capital programme 1 which is designed to encourage the participation of the private sector in providing venture or risk capital and management expertise to small business within the Province.

The programme addresses the need for the infusion of equity capital for the start-up of new business ventures as well as providing for the stablization and the expansion of existing businesses. "A fund of $500,000 has been 3 7 31+

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1445 MJ - 1 MR. WOODROW: "set aside for the programme in this-current fiscal ~ear. Government will match the contribution from the orivate sector in the form of loans with verv attractive interest reductions and principal requirements. And since 1980," Hr. Speaker, this is worthy of note, ''the government have invested some $5 million dollars in t~e development of tourism facilities and attractions, on tourism marketing, on tour development''- of coursE · ·there are many tours, as you know come to the City of Corner Brook and they continue on here to St.

John's- "and the promotion of package tourism" which is important- "as well. as on market development, with a twofold purpose 1intended to encourage visitors to stay longer and spend more money in the Province and to infiltrate ne\v : •and greater markets. 11 Now in 1984 we will be implementing a new service called toll-free wide-area telephone service at a cost of approximately $200,000 annually which will provide easy access to detailed and accurate information for potential tourists.'' So I think that all those things are very, very important because the tourists want to make telephone calls and the like. .

I must also mention what is becoming more and better each year, that is the Stephenville Festival and that is going on again this year. Hr. Speaker, just a couple of more things·. Before I sit down I would like to sa y that I am very happy that the Basilica of St. John the Baptist in St. John's is now a historic site. It is a great honour for the Province, especially for the capital city of St. John's. As a result of this every tourist who visits St. John's will no doubt have it on their list for a visit. I would just like to quote once more a speech that I made in Corner 3735

May 9, 1~84 TaJ?e No. 1445 MJ - 2 MR. WOODROW: Brook to a group of assessors there a couple of years ago. I described then that "The ~'7estern region offers an endless variety of Ne~rfoundland scenery which is an endless fascination to resident and visitor alike, The city of Corner Brook is nestled amidst a spectacular Long Range Mountains which extend to the tip of the Northern Peninsula.'' And finally, Mr.

Speaker, in thanking everybody for their attention, I ~V'ould like to just end up by saying I really feel L~ere is a good future in Newfoundland and Labrador for tourism and I encourage government to do all they can for the development of tourism and I look forward, Mr. Speaker, to closing off the debate next Wednesday. So 1thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear -, hear! MR. 1-TARREN : MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Mr. Speaker. Order, please!

Before I introduce the hon. rnember 1I am sure all members would wish to join me in welcoming to our galleries forty-six Grade V students from Ackerman Elementary in Greens Harbour with their teachers,Mr. Penney, Mr. Galway and Mr. Peddle. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: Mountains. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! The hon. the member for Torngat Mr. Speaker, let me begin by saying that this resolution presented by the member from the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) to me is one of the best resolutions that has ever been placed in this House by a member on the government side. 3736

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1446 ah-1 MR.WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, for a member on the government side to give his own party a tongue-lashing,which it deserves, shows, Mr. Speaker, that the han. member is not satisfied with the actions that his government is tindnq towards tourism in this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think the han. member should be congratulated.

Looking down through the Order Paper,we will not find one other resolution from any other member on the government side that is taking the government to task for things that they should be doing and things that they are not doing for the betterment of the Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure for us on this side of the House to support this resolution because it shows the inaction of this government. Now, Mr. Speaker, when we can see the member for Bay of Islands (Mr.

Woodrow) chastising his own government, chastising his own Premier,who is running around the country worrying about oil and gas when tourism flounders in the Province. MR.PATTERSON: Oil and gas are not important? MR.NEARY: There are other things ,too, in the Province that are important. MR.WARREN: I would just like to take the han. member up on that.Are oil and gas important? Yes,oil and gas are important, Mr . Speaker, but it will not increase our tourism in the future. We need to promote our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. We do not need to'promote Hibernia. Who is the member for Hibernia?

Let him stand up and say something. Now what does this resolution say on the matter? Well, Mr. Speaker, it calls t;1e Government of Newfoundland 3737

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1446 ah-2 MR . WARREN : and Labrador to encourage the future development of the attractions on the West Coast of our Province . Mr . Speaker, where have the member for Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow), the member for Humber West (Mr.Baird), the member for Humber Valley (Mr . House ) the member for Stephenville (Mr . Stagg), been when everybody in St . John 's is talking about a Convention Cente .r? Why have these members not been pushing the government for a Convention Center for Corner Brook? Why could the Center not be in Corner Brook to increase the tourism industry in the West Coast?

We have enough hotels in St. John's now, we have enough places for accomodations in St. John 's, ~§ let us take the Convention Center and put it in Corner Brook . Mr · Speaker' why did not the nine or ten members from the West Coast work on their colleagues in the Cabinet three quarters of whom are from St . John 's, and get the Convention Center on the West Coast where it should be? SOME RON • MEt1BERS : Oh, oh ! 3738

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1447 SD - 1 MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, let me continue. This resolution·, Mr. Speaker, is an admission by the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) that the provincial government has not done all it can to develop the West Coast of the Province. Mr. Speaker, you know, this past - I am getting wound up now - this gc··ernment is committing $186,000 in advertising. And what are they doing on the other hand? Making positions available for twenty-one people to work in the Petroleum Directorate. MR. TULK: They are what? MR. WARREN: Finding positions for twenty-one extra people in the Petroleum Directorate

whereas on the other hand they are going to spend $186,000 in advertising. Mr. Speaker, just look at these mathematical figures. If there was only a 4 per cent increase per year in the growth of tourism in this Province this year and in the future years, it would generate employment for approximately 360 full-time and part­ time employees. That is, only a 4 per cent increase in our tourism industry would generate employment for 360 full or part-time employees. And, Mr. Speaker, talk about the five year plan!

Five times 360 yields 1,800 jobs that would be created in a five year plan if this government would look at a 4 per cent increase in tourism over the next five years. MR. PATTERSON: Tell us about the Norma and Gladys? MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have already told the hon. member in committee about the Norma and Gladys. I am afraid, Mr. Speaker! A few days ago I was looking at the bids sent in after tenders were called. And I only pray for one thing, Mr. Speaker, that whoever gets the Norma and Glad ys, she is not used to transport tourists around the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Because I honestly believe that that boat has had her day and she should be used as a museum in a stationary position, not used in any future trips. I believe that, Mr. Speaker, so why put the lives of people in 3739

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1447 SD - 2 MR. WARREN: danger on a boat that definitely, in my opinion, should not be put in the Atlantic water for such service. Now, Mr. Speaker, I know the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) is interested to know those figures, so let us compare what this government has done towards the Gras Marne National Park as compared to the federal government.

The annual operating budget of Parks Canada for Gras Marne is $2.5 million, and that is towards a national park on the West Coast of this Province, one of the best national parks in the whole of Canada, probably including the one in the Rockies. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would say the Gras Marne National Park, as in fact I have heard many people across Canada say, is just as good as any other national park across Canada. MR. TOBIN: Who wrote your speech? MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, you know, it is amazing! The han. member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) has asked me who wrote my speech. Mr.

Speaker, whether I have a paper to read from or whether I am speaking I am sure that I can do as good a job or better than the han. member from Burin - Placentia West can do. Now, Mr. Speaker, this year Parks Canada is helping 3740

May 9, 1984, Tape 1448, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: my hon. colleague for Bay of Islands(Mr. Woodrow), because they have already called tenders for tour boat facilities on Western Brook and Trout Brook pond, and they have already called tenders, or are in the process of calling tenders for heated swimming pools in the Gros Morr: National Park. So, Mr. Speaker, we can see that the federal government is concerned about tourism on the West Coast of this Province. Mr. Speaker, the Gros Morne National Park is very popular with Newfoundlanders.

Last year alone the number of visitors to the Gros Morne National Park was 52 per cent Newfoundlanders. 52 per cent Newfoundlanders alone wanted to see their own National Park. Mr. Speaker, I know I only have twenty minutes, but there is so much to talk about - SOME HON. MEMBERS : By leave. By leave. MR. WARREN: Thank you. Thank you very much. MR. TOBIN: Tell us what happened to the Canadiens. MR. WARREN: Now, the Canadiens do not have too much to do with tourism in this Province.

However, I can assure the hon. member that in due course, when we are talking about other parks, under the Department of Culture, Recreation and Youth, I will talk about hockey. But now I am talking about the tourism industry in this Province and,if the hon. member will hold his lip for a little while, I will continue. Mr. Speaker, what can this government do to increase tourism in this Province? Well, 3741

May 9, 1984, Tape 1448, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: I know what my han. colleague wanted to say today he is going to say next Wednesday when he closes the debate. I am going to throw out three suggestions and I hope that this government will pay heed to those suggestions, because I believe it will be a great boost for our tourism industry: One would be the removal during the busy tourist months, and I am thinking in particular of June, July and August, those three months, the removal of all taxes that have been imposed on foods sold in restaurants. Now, Mr.

Speaker, if this government wanted to give a boost to the tourism industry in this Province,the least thing they can do for the three main months for the tourism industry is to remove those taxes imposed on food sold in restaurants in this Province. Just imagine, Mr. Speaker, what an impact that would have. Right now all our restaurants are half empty during the Summer time, but let us take those taxes off the $5.50 meal individuals have and see what a difference it will make to the tourism industry. And it will boost restaurant sales, Mr. Speaker.

No doubt this move would be beneficial to the restaurant business in the Province and, furthermore, if the restaurant owners are going to be busy, they are going to have to hire on extra staff during the Summer months, and by hiring on extra staff, naturally it means employment for young people and older people in this Province. Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that there are young people in the gallery today who are hoping to find employment in this Province in the very near future.

And the only way to provide that employment is if initiatives are taken so that these young people can have the opportunity of working after they finish their school year 3742

Hay 9, 1984 MR. WARREN: can take. Tape 1449 EC - 1 another step that this government Now, Mr. Speaker, on the road in Summertime - and I am one of those who travel during the Summer - you hook a trailer on to your car and you take off for a week or so, and the cost of the gasoline y~u must use to get from point A to point B is astronomical! Now, Mr. Speaker, why could not the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) say during the tourist season that he will reduce the tax on gasoline? It would encourage camping from within this Province and it would encourage more people to visit our Province. ·MR.

CARTER: He should put a special tax on all Liberals. MR. WARREN: You know, Mr. Speaker, with a Liberal convention corning up, you can put all the taxes you like on the Liberals, because they are turning out in droves regardless. They are going to turn out in droves. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. the member for St. John's North (Hr. Carter) has spoken about that because last night I attended a meeting at Beaconsfield High School where some 1,025 people, some of them instant Liberals, overnight Liberals, attended the nomination meeting. And it seems, Mr.

Speaker, that in this Province today, they believe that the Premier has gone on vacation because it seems like the government has been stalled. MR. TOBIN: MR . SPEAKER (A ylward): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. On a point of order, the han. the member for Burin - Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I think we are in debate on the resolution as presented to the House by my colleague, the member for Bay of Islands (Hr. Woodrow), 3743

May 9, 1984 Tape 1449 EC - 2 MR. TOBIN: which deals specifically with tourism, and that has nothing to do with the debate that the han. gentleman is now entering into. He does not have to apologize to this House for the fact that it takes the Liberals in this Province two days to count 900 votes. MR. WARREN: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): To that point of order, the han. the member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. In response to the m~er for St. John's North (Mr.

Carter), who was asking me about the taxes that were going to be placed on different people in the Province, I responded in a quite favourable manner to the gentleman. And furthermore, to the point of order raised by the han. the member for Burin - Placentia West (Mr. Tobin), I can assure him that when the next election rolls around that he will find out where the taxes will go. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, I do suggest that a meeting in St.

John's West last night for a certain political association would not have much to do with this resolution, so I would remind the han. member that we are discussing a Private Member's resolution. MR. WARREN: Thank you, Mr. Speak~r, I always obey your ruling, Sir. Mr. Speaker, what else can this government do to assist tourism? I have already made two suggestions, one, to reduce the tax on food in restaurants during the tourist season andJtwo, reduce the tax on gasoline for tourists during the Summer season. Mr.

Speaker, last year we set up a big advertising blitz to bring tourists into the Province, and,at the same time we put on the blitz, 3 7 41l

May 9, 1984 Tape 1450 PK - 1 MR. WARREN: we put a 12 per cent tax on clothing. Now here is another way to boost tourism, Mr. Speaker, because last year 40 per cent of the tourists within the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador carne from outside of Newfoundland. Those tourists, the same as an han. gentleman visiting Ontario for a week or so would probably consider buying a shirt or a pair of pants or a pair of shoes or something like that, Mr. Speaker, so why do we have that big burden on them, that extra 12 per cent sales tax? Let me remind the han. House of the practice in Ontario.

If you go to Ontario as a tourist and buy a shirt or a suit of clothes and bring it back horne with you, and within thirty day~ you send your receipt back to the Ontario Government, it will issue a cheque for the amount of tax you paid on that particular piece of clothing. That is what the Ontario Government does. Why cannot this government do the same thing for the tourists who come into our Province? MR. PATTERSON: You know the answer. MR. WARREN: I know the answer. This government says it is because we cannot get enough energy, we cannot get the oil from Hibernia, we cannot get the Lower Churchill.

These are a few of the answers. There is another answer, too. Let the Premier pay for his own apartment, that would be some money corning in; or tell the Premier to come back horne instead of wasting taxpayers' money across Canada, that would be some more money corning in. So, Mr. Speaker, there is some of the money, it does not all have to come from Hibernia. 3745

May 9, 1984 Tape 1450 PK - 2 MR. WARREN: Or not hire twenty- one extra people down at the Petroleum Directorate because we have too many people down there at the present time. There is another $100,000 we could use. so there is no trouble, Mr. Speaker, to get the money. The problem is that this government does not have the gall or the intestinal fortitude to say that if you want to increase the tourism industry in this Province you have to do it in a positive manner.

And a positive way to do it is to say to all of the tourists, have the store clerks attach the little slips, which are now in the stores and everybody has to sign if you have a child under twelve years of age to get the taxes off, have a little slip in the store that the tourist can get, and when he gets back to Quebec or to Saskatchewan, or back to Germany for that matter, he can send his receipt back within thirty days, that is time enough, to the provincial government and he will get his sales tax refunded.

By doing that you see more people coming to the Province and, not only that, you will see more tourists buying in the Province. I think it would be a good idea. In fact, I should throw this one out to the hon. member, to think about our craft industry, about our moccasins and our sealskin mitts and our Indian mitts and vests and different things that are made by the Native people in this Province, because you cannot buy them anywhere else, and people coming into the Province will want to buy them, so why make them pay the 12 per cent sales tax? Now, Mr. Speaker, I know my time is running short.

I only have about another minute. I would like to go on record as saying that the members on this side of the House are quite excited today, are quite pleased 3746

May 9, 1984 Tape 1451 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: that we could see a back- bencher such as the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow), bring in a resolution attacking the government. I am surprised that the han. member's resolution could go through the detection system without being caught. I am surprised, Mr. Speaker, that he got his resolution on the floor without his resolution being thrown out because it was fighting that government. So he must have somehow, Mr.

Speaker, sneaked his resolution in without the 'eye' fellows, we will call them, the guys who call the shots in the government, not stopping his resolution. But I must give him an A-plus for effort for bringing such a resolution into this House condemning his own government. In fact, I close, Mr. Speaker, by saying to the hon. member in all decency, with all respect to the han. member, come on over and join us and I am sure that we will continue to fight. MR. WOODROW: It would be as St. Peter said, 'Lord, to whom shall we go?' MR. WARREN: And, Mr.

Speaker, I assure the han. member that we will join in in showing this government that it is not only St. John's that belongs to th is Province, this Province is from St. John's to Nain _, Labrador. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER. (Aylward) : Before I introduce the next speaker, it gives me great pleasure to welcome to our galleries once again a teacher from Stella Maris School in Trepassey, Ted Winters, together with twenty of his students. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: St. Barbe. MR. OSMOND: Hear, hear! The hon. member for It is a pleasure for me today to stand in this hon.

House and speak on the resolution presented so ably by my colleague from Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) . 3747

May 9, 1984 Tape 1451 NM - 2 MR. OSMOND: The first part of the resolution there refers to the Gras Marne National Park, "WHEREAS the Gras Marne National Park has been recognized as one of the most attractive areas in Canada;", and this I certainly cannot disagree with. Mr. Speaker, there is a little bit of history of how the Gros Marne National Park came to be recognized 1 and I think you can go back to the early 1900s when the warships came in there from England, into the Bonne Bay area, and at one point in time they had royalty on board and they liked the area and liked the scenery so well they stayed longer, so I am told by the older people around Bonne Bay, 3748

May 9,1984 MR. OSMOND: than it had planned Tape No. 1452 ah-1 the boat stayed in longer and the royalty people went back to England and reported the great scenery in the Bonne Bay area. No doubt that scenery is still there today and the mountains are still the same as they were in those days. Later it was recognized by another great gentleman from the United States, Lee Wolfe,who in the late 1930s and early 1940s came to the Lomond area of Bonne Bay and further up in the park area, at that time beingthe first person to bring in American tourists for fishing and hunting.

He set up a camp at Lomond at that time and one of the buildings still stands there. I think it is used now by the Anglican Synod as a youth camp. Lee Wolfe builti his own airfield 1really 1 just on the North end of the park, in Portland Creek area. He flew in his tourists and employed many people out in that area for guides and working on his camps and what have you. we talk today about the conservation of salmon but probably Mr. Wolfe was ·one of the first ones to conserve salmon. At that time he used to encourage the fishermen to catch the bigger salmon 1 but then would let them go.

They had a special little pool made that he would let them go in. He would leave then in that for a day or two until they recovered from their half an hour of being on the end of a line and then he would let them go into the sea. So these are some of the things that the federal government is bring in today in the salmon regulations and in the sports fishing, practically the same thing as was done in the 1940s up on the Northern Peninsula.

Later in the years the federal government recognized that area as a place that was very much loved by the peopLe who come in for the scenery and for the animal life, the wildlife and 3749

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1452 ah-2 MR.OSMOND: what not. I think they engaged a Dr . Pruett or something somewhere in the 1960s and he did a survey of the \'/hole Long Range Mountains on the caribou herds , the moo~e herds and the almost depleted Arctic hare . That is one o£ the few places with Arctic hare, which,although not numerous, I have had the occasion to see myself on the Long Range Mountains . Then about 1973, I gue ss, the park started and p1Zobably there were some signing of agreements at that time. The hon. Ed Maynard was certainly involved there.

I remember attending a very large meeting in Woody Peint a year or two before that >'lhen the previous administration were in, the Liberal administratien,an d there were all kinds of excuses \~Thy the park should not go there, the silica mines , etc ., and they tried to deter thP. oeople £rom having the park . ~·- · STAGG: 'Si lica Bill ', right? MR.OSMOND: MR. STAGG: 'Silica Bill ', yes . I took care of him . 3750

May 9, 1984, Tape 1453, Page 1 -- apb MR. OSI10ND: It was in 1973 that Mr. Maynard was the Minister of Forestry, I think,_ or whatever it was called at that time, and Mr. Chretien came down and they tentatively signed the park over. I must say that it did not go all that smoothly. There were a lot of problems, there were a lot of people disrupted, and there were a lot of people whose life­ styles had to change, especially the older people.

It was not so bad for the younger people, but for the older people who felt they had to move, or chose to move out of the various communities, it was probably one of the saddest things about bringing in the National Park. Another thing was that people had thought at that time, some of the older people, we can no longer hunt and cut wood freely in the future. But that has been resolved to a certain extent. Due to negotiations with the provincial government, and the hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth(Mr.

Simms), the past two years we have had several meetings with the ~arks people,and he has had meetings with his colleagues in Ottawa. And that has been resolved to the benefit of the people in the park because of those meetings and the initiative of the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. As I say, some of the older people could still find it very hard to live with.

And most of the loggers who could no longer cut wood in the park, through negotiations with this government and Bowater there has been lots of land, different blocks of land that has been turned back to the Crown to take care of those people and they are in better timber now than they were before the park went there, really. So it has worked out qu~te satisfactorily and it was because of the initiative and the negotiations of this government in locking after the people in St. Barbe and the Bonne Bay areas. 3751

May 9, 1984, Tape 1453, Page 2 - - apb MR. OSMOND: I would just like to give a description of the park and some o£ the tourist attractions. The trail is in the wilderness and, as I said previously, there are meose and caribou a.nd Arctic hare. And the Arctic hare is really something to see. It is about four times as big as a rabbit . It is very difficult to spot, but it is really something to see . And the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains(Mr. Warren) just mentioned the Western Brook Pond area where the park is putting out tenders for boat tours. Well, 3752

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1454 SD - 1 MR. OSMOND: I would like to inform him that we had boat tours on Western Brook Pond twenty years ago and they continued up until the park came there. Then three years ago 1the park put. out tenders on it and there are two large boats in there now that go up nine miles in through the pond and in through the cour. · .ry, right in to the mountains that come down into the water 2,000 feet. The top of those mountains is 2, 000 feet from the water straight up 1 and s·ome of those mountains are even leaning out over the lake.

There are many, many tourists who go up there during the Summertime, they chose to go up in boats and travel up through the valley, through_ the trails 1 and take the two -day hike back through to Gras Marne and come out that w~y to the road. They go in there mostly to spot the Arctic hare and the caribou and the moose and they, no doubt, do some trout fishing. It is quite a wonderful experience. I pave not travelled that route myself but I certainly travelled the Long Range Mountains in some of my moose hunting experience before the park came into that area.

Then 1 again 1 there is Trout River Pond which also prot:o.udes into the mountains for eight or nine miles, the two ponds 1 and you have the same type of mountains except that it is a different type of view; one mountain has trees and the other mountain is jus·t a rocky terrain. The hon. member mentions in his resolution the Winter sports which would give us some year-round recreation.

I do not think there is any place better on the Island for Winter sports with the snow that we have, the ski slopes that we have, not only the Marble Mountain ski slopes,which are very, very lovelv indeed,but the natural ski slopes that are in Trout River, Gulch and I into the Rocky Harbour/Gros Marne area. And I must add that if you were in Trout River Gulch today and were a skier you would pronably · be up on the hill skiing even thouqh the temperature may be fifteen or twenty degrees. You have there 3753

May 9, 1984 Tape No . 1454 so - 2 MR. OSMOND: probably the late~t skiing that i:s done anyHhere in Canada on Gros Morne. And there will be snow there until July and probably even int0 August 1 but you can certainly ski in June. .And if you were down ±n the Bonne Bay area this weekend , I am sure you would see the people from the Humber Valley area, in the Corner Brook area, down there with their skis on their cars, skiing the small slopes and valleys that still have the snoN.

Cross - country skiing~ There are people who cross-country ski from the Bonne Bay area across into the Bay of Is·lands area, into Cox ''s Cove. They ski right across there in cros·s-country · skiing. I could go on and on t-Ti th the national park th±ng. Probably one of the best salmon rivers i'D. Newfoundland 1 and probably the biggest and most publicized river is the Humber River, 3 7 51~

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1455 MJ - 1 MR. OSMOND: which is in my colleague's district and that river goes back into the country some­ where around 200 kilometers. The headwaters of that river is back in the Gras Marne Park,and I have stood on the ridge of the waters where you have the pond here flowing into the Humber River and you look down into the other valley and you look right out into the bay. MR. ~'JARREN: headwaters? MR. OSHOND: How far from Gras ~~orne Park are the The headerwaters of the Humber River goes out to the edge of the mountains, out from Bakers Brook.

So you are looking down into the Bakers Brook gulch down just North of Bonne Bay and then you are looking East to the ponds that run into the Humber River. MR. WARREN: Are you talking about Bonne Bay? MR. OSHOND: No, it is just about ten miles and you are out to the road there. Mr. Speaker, I have stuck with the Gros Marne National Park there for a while, and just before I finish with the Gros Morne National Park I might say last year that the visitors to the park amounted to 275,000 people and a~ the park camp nights it was 12,000.

This year, Mf· Speaker, work is continuing on there and then aqain the $63 million agreement that was signed last year by the hon. the minister here and the minister in Ottawa, l think it was Mr. Rompkey, of that $63 million agreement and, Mr. Speaker, $8 million of that is going to be spent there this year on repaving roads and rebuilding road~ on the campground at Trout River partially 1 and on their new administration building. MR. WARREN: ~7here is the swimming pool going to be? 3755

May 9 , 1984 Tape tic . ~455 t-1J - 2 MR. OSMOND: The swimming pool is going in the Rocky Harbour area. I do not think that toti~l be in this year's programme but there is a swimming poo l that is coming up there . I am sure that if it is an out- door swinuning pool there ~lill be a l.ot of people do~m there looking for some warm t11ater . ~x . Speaker, I may come back to the park , but I \:JOUld like to talk about some of ; the initiatives of the hotel and motel o_perators on the Northen Peninsula. Several year s ago they got together and they formed their own association .

I think originellv t~ere \11ere eleven, and now there are bvel ve or thirteen motel operators in that association called Northern Travelling Corporation. They came up Nith all sorts of ideas to promote tourism on the Northern Penin sula and one of those ideas was the idea of giving that road a 3756

May 9, 1984 Tape 1456 EC - 1 MR. OSMOND: specific name. So they, I think, had many meetings with the provincial government here and the hon. the Minister responsible for Tourism (Mr. Windsor) and they came up with the name, the Viking Trail. Mr. Speaker, I attended the official opening of the Viking Trail two years ago in Deer Lake with the hon. the Minister of Development and the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Dawe). At that time they had a motorcade of antique cars 1 from all around the West Coast, which travelled down into Woody Point, across on the ferry and into St.

Anthony, and returned for the official opening of that trail. And they went on into the Viking site in L'Anse-au-Meadow. And last year they did the same thing again. They organized and got together many antique cars and travelled the same route, and now it is becoming an annual event. They will be doing it again this year some time in June and it will mark the official opening of the tourist season on the Northern Peninsula. A lot of credit goes out to those people 1 from this government and from myself 1 for initiating such an idea. It is probably the first of its kind in Newfoundland.

That trail extends a distance of 480 kilometers. MR. STAGG: MR. OSMOND : That is a good many miles. That is a good many miles, it is approximately 300 miles. Mr. Speaker, that trail is connected with the Labrador ferry at St. Barbe and I understand there will be a new ferry there this year and the car capacity will be increased, I think, by fifteen. That will no doubt be a great asset to the tourist industry, both on the Northern Peninsula and into Labrador. 3757

May 9, 1984 Tape 1456 EC - 2 MR . OSMOND: I remember some years ago I met a gentleman and a lady travelling by car on the Northern Peninsula. It was probably eight or ten years ago ,and , at that time, I was on the road travelling the Northern Peninsula, and this couple stopped and asked me how far it was to St . Barbe. I to'd them, and when I asked them where they were going, they said they were going to Montreal. So I was a bit curious . I asked , '~vhere did you come from? 1 He said , 1Ne came across c;>n the Gulf ferry and \"e are making the round trip to Montreal . 1 And sure enough, they did.

There are many people who make that round trip to Montreal . They travelled to St. Barbe, crossed on the ferry to Blanc Sablan, loaded their car on a coastal boat for Sept Iles and then went on to Montreal . 3758

May 9, 1984 Tape 1457 NM - l MR. OSMOND: I think there is probably a day coming when that Northern Peninsula Highway and the Labrador ferry will be probably the busiest road and ferry in Newfoundland, because hopefully some day there will be a road connection through to Eastern Canada. MR. WOODROW: MR. OSMOND: It is nine miles. Well, it is nine miles across straight but the ferry route is probably about fifteen miles. Mr.

Speaker, I have to get back to the Humber Valley area and to the Bay of Islands area or my colleague from Bay of Islands (Mr. woodrow) probably will not like it too well if I do not go back and touch on the Bay of Islands area. I too have travelled that route, and I am sure my hon. friend from Humber West (Mr. Baird) has travelled that route many times by boat, always coming down to the Bonne Bay Regatta by boat and we will miss him coming in the bay this year because I understand that last year was the last year for 'A Day on the Bay with Ray.' He has gone into new adventures.

You will not get 'A Day on the Bay with Ray,' I do not think, unless he borrows a boat. But I have travelled out through the Bay of Islands and through my hon. colleague's little island or big island - Woods Island is it? MR. WOODROW: Yes. MR. OSMOND: And then travelled on into Bonne Bay from there and it is a route that I think anybody interested in scenery and interested in boating should take the trip, because it is an adventure. My hon. friend from Humber West (Mr. Baird) has taken it 3759

May 9, 1984 Tape 1457 NM - 2 MR. OSMOND: many, many times and sometimes in stormy weather, and sometimes practically lost and all this, but it is a very, very interesting trip. You have many, many islands there, Woods Island and you have Big Pearl Island and Guernsey Island, Tweed Island, Hen Island, Green Island and Saddle Island. Saddle Island itself is an island that at this time in the year is nothing just a white island because it is covered with sea gulls and birds, it is really a sanctuary. MR. STAGG: It is covered with guano. MR. OSMOND: My friend from Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) has the proper term. MR.

SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! The hon. member's time has elapsed. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. OSMOND: By leave. By leave. Just a few minutes and I can clue up here. Anyway, as you travel out through the Bay of Islands and down through the islands, there is no harm to call it Bay of Islands, and you are looking at Mount Gregory, quite a scenic mountain and valley there, and the Gregory Plateau, just on the back of it, Gregory River there, then into Chimney Cove, and - MR. BAIRD: Trout River. MR. OSMOND: - Trout River. We cannot forget Trout River.

Travelling on there by boat into Bonne Bay, as you enter the mouth of Bonne Bay and the mountains 3760

May 9, 1984 Tape 1457 NM - 3 MR. OSMOND : protrude right to the sea,. it is really a fantastic sight. And I can see why the British saw it as a place that they should promote for tourism even at that time. So , Mr . Speaker, before I sit down there is one other little thing and that is when we talk about tourism on the ~vest Coast and the promotion of tourism and the monies 376 1

May 9, 1984 Tape 1458 PK- 1 . MR. OSMOND: that the provincial government should put into tourism, we have to think of our oil agreement~ we have to think of an agreement·, and not only an agreement 1 but an agreement that will benefit Newfoundland, that will benefit our tourism and our fishery and mining and forest industr~ but' we need the monies from that agreement, Mr. Speaker, to promote and to foster tourism on the West Coast as well as all Newfoundland. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas) : St. John's North. MR. CARTER: Thank you Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! The han. member for Mr.

Speaker, I certainly concur with the mover of this motion and I would like to see the tourist facilities on the West Coast upgraded.

I do have a suggestion 1 and that is that the ferry from North Sydney to Port aux Basques be heavily subsidized by this government, on a trial basis 1 of course, because it may be too expensive ~or us to do it, it may not pay off, but on a trial basis because this would be new dollars coming into Newfoundland, Tourist dollars are good dollars; average tourists must spend several hundred dollars here if they are going to have anything like a .holiday and tour around, by the time they cover their living expenses and buy fuel and food and a number of other things and souvenirs, and it would seem to me that the money that we would spend we would get back probably several times over.

And,in any event 1 it would be possible to assess the result of this subsidy programme. I am not suggesting it be a complete subsidy, perhaps a partial subsidy. But I thing it is something that should be done and very, very careful 3762

May 9, 1984 Tape 1458 PK - 2 MR. CARTER: thought should be given to this kind of a proposal. Now it would be nice if we had more money to spend on the West Coast of the Province. If you are going to encourage tourists,and this is an ideal tourist area because the scenery is spectacular, the climate, :is not kind, is certainly consistent; summer is Summer and Winter is Winter, with Spring and Fall so you do get the four definite seasons as opposed to the East Coast of Newfoundland where you can have anything at anytime.

And it would be nice if we could afford to pave all of the roads so that all of the maximum scenic potential could be realized. You cannot expect people to come here from away, since most of the major roads in North America are paved, you cannot expect people to come here with expensive cars and trailers and shudder over narrow, dirt, rough roads. MR. CALLAN: No dirt, No dirt now. MR. CARTER: No,I promised the hon. member today that there would be no dirt. It will be a departure for me . But when speaking of dirt roads I do not mean it in that sense.

You cannot expect tourists to come here and put their cars and trailers, usually very expensive cars and trailers,at risk going over narrow, rough roads. So money will have to be found to upgrade the roads. Now how are we going to find the money? The Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) brought down a budget that is a survival budget. I do not think he could have done any better. There are very few more dollars to be gotten. But there is the notorious Churchill Falls contract. Now I am not departing from the resolution when I bring in Churchill 3763

May 9, 1984 Tape 1458 PK - 3 MR . CARTER: Falls, because tbe proof of relevance, Mr. Speaker, is that if we had even some of the income from the Churchill Fal ls power project we would be able to spend a lot more money on upgrading all of Newfoundland and certainly the West Coa st and the 3 7 6 i~

May 9, 1984 'rape 1459 EC - 1 MR. CARTER: various facilities that need to be upgraded and we could certainly afford to embark upon a very generous subsidy programme for ferries and for tourists coming here. So, with that in mind, I would like to bring han. members' attention to the extent of our disadvantage that we suffer as a result of the Churchill Falls contract.

The average - well, it is not an average bill, it is not an average consumption, but it is not an impossible one, it is not an unrealistic amount- a household can use 6, 000 kilowatt hours per month, it is possible, especially an older home that is not tightly sealed, where it is heated with electric heat, the cooking is done with an electric stove and the water is heated by electricity and there are the normal number of lights. It is not impossible in a cold month in the Winter on the East Coast or in any part of Newfoundland for the electricity consumed to be 6,000 kilowatt hours.

An~, at roughly five cents per kilowatt hour, which is roughly what we pay, not exactly, but roughly, that is a bill of $300. Now, would anyone care to guess, off the top of his head, what the monthl y charge would be if you were paying the 2.5 mils that Chtirchill Falls gets for its Labrador power? I can save members the trouble of calculating it; the amount is $15 •. That is what the bill would be. In other words, the disparity between what we receive for electricity and what Hydro-Quebec receives for its electricity generated at Churchill Falls is of that order.

It is the same as the difference between a $300 light bill and a $15 light bill. MR. BAIRD: MR. CARTER: What about transmission costs? The member for Humber West mentions transmission costs. Well, that would certainly 3765

May 9, 1984 Tape 1459 EC - 2 MR. CARTER: be an added cost. But I do not think people realize just how much the difference is. I know, we know, they only pay 2.5 mils and we pay 50 mils, but until you put it in the context of an actual light bill that a person has to pay, until you do that, you do net really rea -lize just how great the gap is. Now, it just so happens happen to have the Churchill Falls contract here on my desk and I was thumbing through it.

And, since the attitude of Hydro-Quebec has caused all good will to evaporate between Newfoundland and Quebec - it is a pity, I have nothing against Quebecers; there are as many unpleasant Newfoundlanders as there are unpleasant Quebecers and I do not have any racial feelings towards them. But I do say this, that all good will between Newfoundland and Hydro-Quebec has certainly evaporated, especially as a result of their attitude,and the court decision, of course, has not helped. So there is no more good will.

And I find it very hard to understand how any contract can be so devised so that it can be enforced where no good will exists. Under

Article 10.1, Firm Capacity Penalty, reading from the Churchill Falls contract, I read: "Should a deficiency occur," deficiency being a lack of power, "then CFLCo shall be subject to the 3766

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1460 SD - 1 MR. CARTER: applicable penalty outlined belo,.,!' 'i7hich oenalty? ''Hydro-. Quebec should be entitled subject as hereinafter provided in

Article 16 to deduct from the payments next to be made by it to CFLCo herein under" -a lot of legalese here- "(1) when the deficiency period is more than thirty minutes and not more than four hours 1 there should be a penalty of $10 per megawatt for the maximum megawatts of such deficiency lasting continuously for thirty minutes calcul~ted to the nearest full megawatt. 11 Subsection 2 goes on, 11 If the deficiency period should be more than four hours,'' and subsection 3 goes on to say, 11 Where the deficiency period is deemed to be twenty-four hours"- I do not need to read those. But, Mr.

Speaker, there is no provision for any penalty whatsoever should the deficiency be for less than thirty minutes. Now it occurs to '''Y bad mind, it occurs· to my bad mind that since there is no penalty to give Hydro-Quebec a deficiency of less than thirty minutes, I would suggest that a twenty-nine deficiency be given every thirty minutes. However, there is a problem here. The total amount delivered per year has to be, I think it is, 31.5 billion kilowatt hours. But. that could be used, we could turn up the generators for the remaining few minutes. AN HON. MENBER: Do it in the Wintertime. MR.

CARTER: Just do it in the Wintertime, the coldest part of the Winter. Now 1 I also realize, Mr. Speaker, that this would be a very irresponsible thing to do and something that one would not do willing or undertake lightly. And one certainly would not do without endemnifying the bond holders for CFLCo. But the point is this, the exercise that the Newfoundland government has just gone through in the Water Rights Reversion Bill has been to establish our right to do just that. And if we have the right tc do just that, 3767

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1460 SD - 2 MR. CARTER: then when we sit down with Hydro- Quebec we could say, 1Now,look here,fellows, this is the last thing we want to do. But we have established our right to do it and, you know, if worst comes to worst this is what we may have to do. 1 And this is · not a new discovery, Mr. Speaker. Contracts are almost impossible to confirm where there is no good will. This was explored by Shakespeare in the Merchant · of Venice when Shylock was awarded a pound of flesh but not a drop of blood. It was not in the bond.

I say power interruptions of less than thirty minutes are not in the bond. And I have yet to see any part of this contract where we can be penalized whatsoever for causing d7lays of less than thirty minutes. Now I think it would be quite irresponsible to do it, I do not think that we should do it 1 but I do suggest we establish our right ·to do it in order to strengthen our bargaining hand. And I would remind the former Minister of Energy (Mr. Barry) that he renegotiated a very good deal with ERCO and it was because of certain deficiencies in that contract.

I need not go into those here, I can always go into them at another time. And I applaud, .I give credit where credit is due, I applaud the for-mer Minister of Energy for doing just that. He found a flaw, a l~ophole, in the ERCO contract and he pointed this out to ERCO very gently, very -firmly, T am sure, and as a result th _ey saw that the writing was · on the wall and they were very happy to renegotiate a contract, not as good as ~V'e would like to have but certainly a renegotiated contract that we were 3768

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1461 HJ - 1 MR. CARTER: pleased to sign, and willingly and freely signed, and it is to the great benefit of Newfoundland. I do not think you should take away any credit where credit is due. The member has crossed the House, and I am sad to see that, but that does not diminish anything t~at he may have done when he was on this side of the House, and I give him full marks, full credit and I am sure that the same thing could happen with Churchill Falls. If we did - AN HON. MEMBER: congratulating you. HR. BARRY: MR. CARTER: Hear that Leo? He is vJould the hon. member repeat that?

I say I was congratulating the hon. member for renegotiating the ERCO contract because my understanding of it is - and I do not have the time or the wish to go ~nto details here - that there was a flaw in the contract and the former Energy Minister (Mr. Barry) was able to point out this flaw to the ERCO officials and show that if they persisted in their stubbornness that they might find themselves short of electricity. ~~d I am just suggesting to Hydro-Quebec that if they persist in their stubbornness they may be short of electricity.

My reading of the contract here shows that it has a few loopholes that I think should be exploited, or at least should be pointed out to Hydro-Quebec, and would have the same effect as the Water Rights Reversion Act. ~d if we did that, renegotiated Hydro-Quebec's deal with CFLCo, then we would have more money to spend on the West Coast, more money to upgrade the tourist facilities and this brings me back to the point that makes my few remarks relevant. So I intend to vote for the resolution and I congratulate the member for making it and I will await with interest any other points that may be made. 3769

May 9, 1984 Tape N9. 1461 I-1J - 2 HR. BARRY: Mr . Speaker. . MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The han. the member for Mount Scio. MR. BAR.'R.Y: Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to get up to support the resolution proposed by the member for Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) • I think that in addition to his showing his keen interest in the area of his own riding, in the way in which he has pointed out the many sites which have great potential for tourist attraction, he has also made some tremendously important points.

"WHEREAS there exists additional potential for development of tourist attractions in the Western region" - Mr. Speaker, we should recognize the significance of what the member is saying.

He is saying that despite the fact we see the unemployment rate increasing year after year, that we see more and more students graduating from-our high schools, universities and trade schools being unable to find jobs - every year there are more and more of these - the fact is that today we are facing a double-barreled recession in this Province, a recession double-barreled in the sense that it was brought on not just by the decline of the economies of the Western World - the recession, in other words, has been general in North America and the Western World but there is also a recession brought on by the bad management of members opposite.

SOHE HON. MEMBEP-8: MR. WOODROW: l-1:R. BARRY : Oh, oh! That is not so. Now this is very significant. We have, lrr. Speaker, as set forth clearly by the member for Bay of Islands, additional potential for development of tourist attractions in the Western region. 3770

May 9, 1984, Tape 1462, Page 1 -- apb MR. BARRY: What he is saying, Mr. Speaker, is that we have additional potential for employment for the people of our Province, we have additional job potential. And the tragedy, yes, Mr.

Speaker, indeed the indeed the shame, is that his own government is not doing what it should be doing in order to see that this potential becomes an actuality, that his own government is not doing what it should be doing in order to make sure that every single job, if it . is only one job, in Gras Marne or on the Marble Mountain ski facility, or the Humber Valley generally, if there is only one job, the government should be out there ensuring that that job is created. Mr.

Speaker, we have to face the fact that, and I think it is well know to all members of this House, and, indeed, to all members of the general public, that it is not just in Western Newfoundland, but all over this Province there is additional potential for development of tourist attractions and, therefore, additional potential for jobs. I am disappointed to see that the Minister responsible for Tourism (Mr . Windsor) is not in his seat is not here listening to this debate and telling this House why he is ·not doing his job. Mr. Speaker, maybe we can offer a few suggestions to the minister and members opposite.

Maybe the member for Bay of Islands(Mr. Woddrow) would be kind enough to carry the suggestions to the Minister responsible for Tourism, and maybe the member will be kind enough to get up in a few days and tell us what the response of the minister has been to these suggestions. Now, I think he would be prepared to do that. 3771

May 9, 1984, Tape 1462 , Page 2 -- apb MR . BARRY: Now, Mr . Speaker, tourism is not something that grows by itself. We say, Oh, look at the beautiful scenery that we have in Newfoundland, look at the rugged coastline, look at the wooded beauty of Gros ?>1orne and the rugged coastline and areas of that region of the Province ; look at our wildlife and so forth . well, the fact of the matter, Mr . Speaker, is that scenery and wildlife in itself does not ensure the growth of a tourist industry . And many parts of the world, and, I would say, most parts of the world have their scenic attractions.

They may not be the kind that would be attractive to all members of this House, or, indeed, to people generally, but it is a rare part of the \.,orld that would not be attractive to at least some people , where they would be prepared to pack up where ti:ey live and go travel to 3772

May 9, 1984 Tape 1463 EC - l MR. BARRY: I suppose you cannot find anything more desolate and bleak than the area around the North Pole, or 1 let us go to the other extreme, the Kalahari Desert, and every year, Mr. Speaker, you find individuals who ar~ prepared to pay thousands of dollars in order to get to these points to experience that bleakness, that emptiness, that desolation, the awesomeness of the emptiness and desolation. And maybe that is the strategy of the Minister responsible for Tourism (Mr.

Windsor) and the Premier and the govern­ ment: Maybe they are trying to steal the attraction of the North Pole and the Kalahari Desert and they ·want to set up a situation of such utter desolation in this Province that we will have people corning from thousands of miles to view the bleakness and the awesome magnitude of the desolation that will exist in this Province. Is that the strategy? Now, Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to take a holiday in the last week or so and I acted like all members opposite, I am sure, from time to time have acted.

You go on a holiday, you take your little camera to take a few snaps and you go out to see the sights in areas that are somewhat different from where you yourself live. I had a business trip to Europe and I took a few days while over there to do a little sightseeing. Mr. Speaker, I went to London and then I went down to Rome and to Florence, and, Mr. Speaker, you could not beat your way through the streets of either of those three cities for tourists. MR. ANDREWS: We do not want that. MR. BARRY: No, the minister does not want that. You could not beat your way through the shops, 3773

May 9, 1984 Tape 1463 EC - 2 MR . BARRY: you could not get to the counters in the shops to throw your money over the counters, there were so many tourists there tossing their money over the counters to get souvenirs . The minister does not want that, there would be too many jobs created. MR . ANDREWS : Do you want to have the atmosphere they have in Rome and those places? MR. BARRY: Well, Mr. Speaker, why not? This shows the narrowness of the concept of tourism that the members opposite have, the narrowness of the thinking that exists there . Mr. Speaker, why is it that people go to Florence? I do not suppose the population of Florence is much bigger than that of St.John 's. 3 7 ?It

May 9, 1984 MR. STAGG: to Bologna. MR. BARRY: Tape 1464 PK - 1 It sounds like the member went I passed Bologna on the way to Florence, Mr. Speaker, but I did not get to Ireland to kiss - AN HON. MEMBER: Did you have an audience with the Pope? MR. BARRY: The Pope is well aware of what will greet him here in Newfoundland. He had the opportunity to be completely•briefed on his trip. Mr.

Speaker, the conclusion that I arrived at in looking at what was happening, why all these millions of tourists were moving into London, Rome, Florence, and the little villages in the English countryside and the Italian countryside, was it was not just because there is nice scenery, although there is some nice scenery, although you get pretty tired, you know, of sidewalks covered by dog droppings as you are · going through these streets. But, you know something?

I hate to say this but the rugged grandeur of Newfoundland's coasts, of Newfoundland's forests, the natural scenery of Newfoundland will only carry a tourist for so long. If he is dragging around with him five or six children whom he has to keep occupied for the two, three weeks or four weeks, if we are lucky, that he is going to come to Newfoundland, they are not going to be captivated for those fourteen or twenty-one or twenty-eight days by watching the spruce budworm dangle from our evergreens. They are not going to be captivated, Mr.

Speaker, by the fifteenth or twentieth or twenty-fifth time they look at the tremendous rock formations and hills and natural scenery of Gros Marne Park. 3775

May 9, 1984 Tape 1464 PK - 2 MR . BARRY : And , Mr . Speaker , this is it : There has to be something else. Ju st as when a journalist trying to write a newspaper

article or a book has to have something that is going to get people's attention, there has to be a ho ok, there has to be something that will capture the imagination, in each particular area of the Province that expects to get tourists to visit, and to visit on a regular basis . MR. WARREN: Premier? MR . BARRY : aow about a statue of the A statue of the Premier? Now it is funny you mentioned that, because I would say one of the prime attractions that gets people to the city of Florence is a statue. Now there are a lot of busts around as well, but this is a statue. And, Mr . Sp ea ker , that statue MR .

TOBIN : We heard you had yours ordered . MR . BARRY : The member is familiar with the statue of which I speak, and I am sure members opposite will be when I mention the name . Mr. Speaker, it is the statue of David . Now it is a statue that is 3776

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1465 MJ - 1 MR. BARRY: set forth as a tremendous example of the work of the sculptor Michelangelo Buonarroti, capturing in very, very simple beautiful terms, Mr. Speaker, the tension in the hand and set of the head of David as he is about to set out against Goliath. Now maybe the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. warren) has something. It did not occur to me until he mentioned it, but maybe there is time for a 'Brian'. If Florence can do it with a David, maybe we can do it with a Brian.

Because I would take it that we have the same image being portrayed by the Premier, that of the little David against the Goliath of the federal government. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the Premier is going to have to look for a better sling. David did his job with a· sling. MR. WARREN: Has Brian got a sling? MR. BARRY: But anyway, I am being distracted here now by the member for Torngat Mountains and I want to get back to the central point here. Now the central point is that is is not enough for us just to lie back as the Minister responsible for Tourism (Mr.

Windsor), wherever he is, apparently is doing and say, 'Well, we have the great natural beauty of Newfoundland,'' and ~ct the tourists to come flocking in. That will not be sufficient, Mr. Speaker. We have to have, in each and every community that wants to attract tourists, we have to have some - and there may be a number - but at least one item that will be of interest to a tourist.

Now it may be a building, an historic building such as the Basilica here, which compares quite favourably with many of the basilicas that I had the opportunity of walking through over the last few weeks, where, again, you could not get into them for the tourists who were there with their cameras and the guided tours around the Basilica. Mr. Speaker, we are doing it to a certain extent with these festivals 3777

May 9, 1984 Tape No. l465 ""..J - 2 MR. BARRY: that are being promoted in different parts of the Province, the Bakeapple Festival in the Labrador Heritage Society, the Stephenville Drama Festival we have various regions of the Proivnce that are promoting festivals. Now that is a good start but,you know,it is a mere scraping of the surface in terms of the potential we could have for these festivals.

If we can get millions of peop~e over to Munich for their Beerfest every year, and that seems to be the main reason that manv of them go, maybe we should have a Sealers Festival~ maybe we could kill two birds with one stone with a properly developed Sealers Festival in Newfoundland. But apart from the natural attractions, the buildings, the festivals, there are also, Mr. Speaker, items of historic interest. Anybody who is ever going through Oslo should take the opportunity of going into the little museum that they have ·there where they show a Viking ship that was uncovered in the harbour.

They were dredging a harbour and they uncovered the entire works,and it was a very valuable, amazing find. They have that - actually I think they have that and a smaller ship - in a very simple building and they have that dark brown to black Viking ship in this pure white building and the thing that hits you when you walk in is the contrast.

It is presented so simply and yet so effectively that right away you are caught by the tremendous lines of this Viking ship and you can envisage right away the tremendous culture that went into it back in 900, 1000, 1100 A.D. that saw the ability to construct a vessel like that that could take Vikings across the North Atlantic and take them where Take them to L'Anse-au-Meadows, a few hundreds year later take the Basques to Red Bay and now we have an opportunity at Red Bay to see a museum. Why do we not have a museum underway there right now? 3778

May 9, 1984 Tape No. 1466 SD - 1 MR. BARRY: Why is it that we do not have an agreement between the Province and the federal government with respect to having a museum at Red Bay \17hich I am sure would see jobs immediately for the Red Bay area, today 1if we had this under way?. HR. A..'!';jDREWS: the federal government. MR. BARRY: I believe that is a matter for Yes, the federal government has responsibility below· the low water mark,but there is a need for provincial co-operation wi.th respect to the on land site there, and there has to be co-operation .

Aqain it is an example of where lack of co-operation between the Province and the federal government is seeing a fa~lure to develop this additional potential,which the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) quite properly has pointed out 1 exists and is not being developed by the current minister. And,therefore, Mr.

Speaker, when the member for the Bay of Islands says that governMent should 'encourage the further development of these attractions and of additional attractions and that every ·effort be made to promote this area as a major recreational centre,' ·~at the member is quite properly saying is that the government is not doing this right now.

They are not encouraging the further development of these att~actions, they are not encouraging the development of additional attractions, and I would ask the member to take back to the minister the concept that every community in Newfoundland that wishes to have tourist attracted- and we should have municipal input there, we should have the councils involved in indicating to what extent they want to have tourist attracted to their particular area - 117P- should have in every single communityon historic building, an item of natural attraction, a festival, a museum or some specific concept that can be promoted to bring tourists in from all parts of the world.

We have the potential there, we all agree. Now let us see the 3779

May 9, 1984 MR. BARRY: potential realized. MR. SPEAKER (.Aylward): SOME HON. ME:tfflERS: MR. STAGG: Tc>.pe No. 1466 SD - 2 government get out and have that Thank you. The hon. member for Stephenville. Hear, hear. My ~remarks today, Mr. Speaker, will be less contentious than my last foray into the debate, although you never know when you start out where you are going to end up sometimes in these debates.. The hon. member started out in Gros Marne and ended up in Florence l'!R. BUTT: Florence, Italy. MR. STAGG: .,. and took us on a travelogue through Europe.

He told us a great deal about Europe and howwonderful it is to travel through Europe. I have no doubt that the han. member is genuine in his· remarks indicating the value of tourism to the provincial economy'. I certainly would like to commend my colleague from the Bay of Islands [Mr. Woodrow) for his timely · resolution. He has persevered in getting this resolution before the Rouse. He has had it on the Order Paper for quite some time now and circumstances have dictated that the House has closed and prol:' ·ogued before he had the opportunity to debate it.

So his constituents will be pleased to know that in this matter,as in other matters 1he perseveres and we are having this debate today. It generally concerns tourism, but more specifi'cally it zeros in on the Bay of Islands and the Western region of th.e Province. Now we Western members· of the 3780

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1467 ah-1 MR. STAGG: House of Assembly can be excused a cert.ain ebullience, not arrogance, on the subject of tourism. But on the West Coast of Newfoundland, for instance, for the past month we have had several hundred hours of sunshine. I understand that in St. John's in the month of April there were nine hours of sunshine, a grand total of nine hours. No doubt the sun was still shining but it was above the clouds. MR.BUTT: That was after dark though. MR. STAGG: That was after dark, the member for Conception Bay South (Mr.Butt),taking up the cudgel for the East,says.

Well 1 that is one of the characteristics about the West Coast of Newfoundland. It is a unique geographical feature because the Long Range Mountains provide quite a divergence of topography throughout the region. The Long Range Mountains give rise to the Gros Marne National Park and all of the quite extraordinaily beautiful vistas that are in that particular park. And anyone who goes there for the first time has to be struck by the majesty of the scenery that is available there. MR. OSMOND : And the member.

MR.STAGG: And, of course, the member, who entertains mightily at his lodgings in Woody Point on occasion during the Summertime. He is quite a magnanimous and gracious host. The West Coast boasts many of these features from the Southern portion of the Province,an area that is very frequently ignored by ourselves and by the tourists. When people get off the ship - CN Marine people do not like to have their ships called boats- when you get off the ship, or if you want 3781

May 9,1984 Tape No. 1467 ah-2 MR. STAGG: to give it the general name call it the ferry, most people just high-tail it onto the highway and travel as fast as possible, maybe,to a certain extent,aimlessly, just having a vague notion of where they are going to go or maybe a specific notion of where they are going to go. Really, people should wait a short time and take a trip down the road to Rose Blanche. Rose Blanche and some of these smaller communities in that particular area are Newfoundland's Peggy's Coves.

The Nova Scotians 1with their gift for magnifying the minute into something gigantic-ergo their offshore agreement - show what advertising can do. But we have any number of Pegg1;'s Coves in Newfoundland; We have so many of them that we probably just ignore them. But I was particularly taken by Harbour Le Cou and Rose Blanche and those areas. That is a good way to start off or to f±nish a trip to Newfoundland if you happen to come by car or motor home or whatever. I just had a humorous note from one of my colleagues. I can hardly read the writing so I know exactly who it is. He asked me to make sure that the 3782

May 9, 1984 Tape 1468 EC - 1 MR. STAGG: member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) knows about the fiords on the Labrador Coast, not to mention the Chevs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STAGG: That is the joke. That is a play on words. I did not get the hon. membe~ 's attention. Anyway, in the South>vestern portion of Newfoundland, tourism has been, if not neglected, it has been unobserved, the natural geographic features of that portion of the Province, and I think it is something that we all should bear in mind.

Ifyou happen to go to that area, and go there a bit early, take a trip down the Southwest portion to the Rose Blanche area, because it is a Peggy's Cove. Now, I represent the district of Stephenvi~le in the House of Assembly and, as such, I am an eternal booster of events that happen in the Stephenville area. I have distributed this year's brochure for the Stephenville Festival. This will be the sixth year that this festival has taken place and it has grown phenomenonally over the past number of years.

This, essentially, is a theatre festival and is a specific event which appeals to a wide range of people and to ever­ increasing numbers of people. This year there are eight productions. They range from Broadway musicals to a play called The Newfoundland Song Book, which will be a cele­ bration of Newfoundland works. So I have distributed that brochure to my colleagues and,hopefully, it will result in an ever-increasing awareness of that particular event. I have blown that horn many times now and han. members might consider that it would be redundant for me to say it.

It more or less stands on its own feet, has an inter­ national reputation, truly a national reputation and is 3783

May 9, 1984 Tape 1468 EC - 2 MR. STAGG: even mentioned internationally on occasion, so it is something that we should all be familiar with. But there are other things that happen on the West Coast of Newfoundland, ~he member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) - I hate to quote the member for Mount Scio - mentioned hooks. ~ hook is something that, in tourism terms, captures your imagination and will be a specific event or attraction or geographical feature that gets people into an area.

But once you have them there ·, it is essential to give them other things to do because you can only take so much scenery, you can only take so much driving around and looking at lakes and streams and that sort of thing. So there are other thin~s that have been happening and they hav~ been happening, to a large extent, on the West Coast of the Province.

For instance, on the Port au Port Peninsula which has been officially designated a bilingual district - the provincial district of Port au Port is designated as a bilingual area - you need approximately 10 per cent of the people who are bilingual, that is, French and English, for an area to be designated as a bilingual area. It was the first area of the Province that had a French television channel. Tne people here in St.

John's eventually got it but we have been receiving television in the Stephenville area in the French language, watching the Expos in French and the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Nordiques in Fr~nch for quite a while and, of course, that is in recognition of the French fact in Western Newfoundland. And that French 3784

May 9, 1984 Tape 1469 NM - 1 MR. STAGG: fact is dramatized in song and is celebrated in August of every year in a festival called 'Une Longue Veille,' a sojourn for a weekend in the French capital of Newfoundland. Since my friend from Placentia (Mr. Patterson) is not here this afternoon, I can get away with saying that. It is the modern day French capital of Newfoundlan~might I say, the Cape St. George area on the Port au Port Peninsula. And it is most exciting; that indeed has become a national attraction.

Literally thousands of people come to that area every year and it is noted for its music and dance and just general celebratory atmosphere that prevades that whole community. And it is certainly worth the trip. And,of course,a trip on the Port au Port Peninsula is akin to a trip on the Great Northern Peninsula and visiting Gros Morne. Nothing can really compar~ with Gros More.

I would think that as far as the majesty and sheer might of a particular attraction, Gros Morne has it more so than any other,with the possible exception of some of these mountains in Labrador which are so difficult to get to that they will remain essentially an under-utilized resource. But a trip along the Port au Port Peninsul~ a peninsula that is essentially a limestone island jutting out into the Gulf of St. Lawrence1 to see how the Gulf weather has weathered that for centuries, eons, is quite an interesting sight in itself.

And1of course1that is the area where the French people, mostly from France -they are not French Canadians, people who came from Quebec to Newfoundland-these are people who came directly from France within the last 150 years or so and have settled in Newfoundland and they have a particular language that 3785

May 9, 1984 Tape 1469 NM - 2 MR. STAGG: is more akin to the North of France than to Acadia or Quebec. So it is quite an interesting place. In Stephenville itself we are developing sporting events in the Summertime. The Stephenville Marathon is now becoming part of the athletic lore of the Province. It has been on the go now for the past two years 1 run by a committee of the town council 1 and they have done quite well. The marathon is a legitimate marathon. It qualifies in the same category, the same rules apply as the Boston Marathon or the New York Marathon, or any of these famous marathons.

And I suggested to one of the organizers this year that we should also have the Stephenville Mile, that is to have a mile run in addition to the marathon because these things gather a great deal of interest and,of course,they are tourism oriented as well. So we are quite pleased with that and how that has happened over the past number of years, the Stephenville Festival and the French Festival have become the two main ingredients, the two main attractio~s and other attractions are gathering strenght and they add significantly to the econo