British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, May 27, 2008

H0527pm-02

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, May 27, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 35, Number 2 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms................................................................................................................................................................................................Vacant Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, May 27, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 12965 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ....................................... 12965 Members' Conflict of Interest Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill M216) J. Horgan Victims of Crime Compensation Act, 2008 (Bill M217) M.

Farnworth Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 12966 Health risks for firefighters R. Cantelon Women's Campaign School S. Hammell Accessible playground in Coquitlam I. Black Haida Heritage Centre G. Coons Green-powered street light in Steveston J. Yap Doug Stead D.

Thorne Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 12968 Premier's compliance with conflict-of-interest guidelines G. Gentner Hon. M. de Jong L. Krog J. Horgan Government support for forest workers C. Trevena Hon. C. Hansen K. Conroy B. Simpson Funding for Buy B.C. program C. Evans Hon. P. Bell Respite services for disabled children N. Simons Hon. T. Christensen Funding for cultural curriculum in B.C. schools J. Kwan Hon. S.

Bond Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 12973 B. Simpson L. Krog

Tabling Documents.............................................................................................................. .................................................. 12973 Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, annual report, 2007 Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 12974 S. Fraser R. Chouhan G.

Coons Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 12974 Health Professions (Regulatory Reform) Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 25) (continued) Hon. G. Abbott A.

Dix Reporting of Bills ............................................................................................................. ...................................................... 12985 Health Professions (Regulatory Reform) Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 25) Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................... ................................................... 12985 Health Professions (Regulatory Reform) Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 25) Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 12985 Health Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 26) (continued) Hon.

G. Abbott Patient Care Quality Review Board Act (Bill 41) Hon. G. Abbott A. Dix R. Chouhan Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... ........................................ 12995 Greenhouse Gas Reduction (Cap and Trade) Act (Bill 18) (continued) G. Robertson Hon. B.

Penner Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 13005 Estimates: Office of the Premier (continued) C. James Hon. G. Campbell

12965 TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 The House met at 1:34 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. J. van Dongen: I'm very pleased to introduce to the Legislature today His Excellency Yong Gaun Koh, High Commissioner of Singapore to Canada. The high commissioner is based in Singapore, where he is the chairman of the Central Provident Fund Board. Accompanying him is Mr. Chin Kwok Foo, consul general of Singapore based in Vancouver. I ask the House to make them both feel very welcome. [1335] Hon. S.

Hagen: Today I had the pleasure of having lunch with four residents of the Comox Valley: David Lewis, who is the executive director of the Truck Loggers Association, and his son Sterling, and Mark Fisher and his son Liam. They are seated in the gallery now. The interesting thing is that David actually bought a package of having lunch with me at a Rotary auction — actually paid money to a charity to have lunch with me. So would the House please join me in making them feel very welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills MEMBERS' CONFLICT OF INTEREST AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 J.

Horgan presented a bill intituled Members' Conflict of Interest Amendment Act, 2008. J. Horgan: I move introduction of the Members' Conflict of Interest Amendment Act, 2008, and that it be read a first time now. Motion approved. J. Horgan: I am pleased to once again introduce the Members' Conflict of Interest Amendment Act. This bill establishes clear conflict-of-interest rules for public officeholders.

It takes two major steps to change the existing members' act, including extending the provisions of the act to deputy ministers an d government appointees, including ministerial staff and advisers to those in charge of the public sector entities. These appointees will be prohibited from improperly benefiting from their office, and it would prohibit them from operating a business, taking another job or office or serving as a consultant while holding a public appointment.

The bill will also oblige members of cabinet, par- liamentary secretaries and deputy ministers to place their assets in a blind trust while they hold that posi- tion, in place of the existing reporting provisions. This provision arises out of the ruling last year where the Conflict-of-Interest Commissioner suggested that such a change be made. This would bring British Columbia legislation in line with conflict legislation at the federal level and will assure British Columbians that officeholders in B.C. are fully accountable for their actions.

In his last report to the Legislature, outgoing Conflict- of-Interest Commissioner H.A.D. Oliver stated the fol- lowing: "Recent experience indicates that consideration be given to the inclusion of political staff, including ministerial assistants, chief of staff in the office of the Premier and deputy ministers in the list of persons subject to the Conflict of Interest Act." I couldn't imagine a be tter endorsement, but Mr. Oliver goes further and recommends that government deal with the substance of my proposed legislation as a matter of public business.

Absent any government initiative on this matter, I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill M216, Members' Conflict of Interest Amendment Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. VICTIMS OF CRIME COMPENSATION ACT, 2008 M. Farnworth presented a bill intituled Victims of Crime Compensation Act, 2008. M. Farnworth: I call the Victims of Crime Compen- sation Act, 2008, and I move first reading now. Motion approved. M.

Farnworth: It's a devastating and emotionally jarring experience to be harmed by another's criminal act. It's senseless and profoundly unfair that innocent people die and are seriously injured simply because of such unfortunate circumstances beyond their control. While programs and services are in place to reha- bilitate criminals and those who conduct criminal acts, to protect the public from being victims of crime, we need to be doing more. This act recognizes the importance that m any p eo ple don' t ju st g et u p an d g o b ack t o work the next day after being a victim of a violent criminal act.

This act recognizes the emotional trauma and long-term physical pain that many people experience when these systems fail. Victims and families deserve to be recog- nized and to have programs in place that can assist them through their traumatic ordeal. Hon. Speaker, what this act does is put in place a system similar to what exists in the province of Quebec whereby victims of crime and their families are eligi- ble to take up to a two-year unpaid leave of absence from their work and not have to worry about return- ing to their place of employment — that they are able to do so. [1340]

12966 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 This recognizes the trauma that many people go through. It recognizes that you don't just get up and go back to work the next day. The process of healing can take a considerable amount of time, and worrying whether you're able to return to your place of employ- ment should not be part of that trauma. This act has come about through a lot of work and consultation with victims of crime groups. I'm very proud to stand here and table it in this House today. It's time that we recognized victims' rights.

I m o v e t h a t t h i s b i l l b e p l a c e d o n t h e o r d e r p a p e r for second reading after today. Bill M217, Victims of Crime Compensation Act, 2008, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) HEALTH RISKS FOR FIREFIGHTERS R. Cantelon: I rise today in the House to talk about the respect both sides of this House have for the com- mitment and bravery that our firefighters show on a daily basis in our communities. The events that have unfolded in Prince George in the last day and a half frankly make the words that I've prepared pretty trivial. The industrial fire that they're facing is the worst type, the worst case of fires that firefighters have to face. The fumes are toxic, and they recognize that going to a fire like this puts them at risk immediately and in the long run.

The toxic fume s that they are exposed to, both in breathing and thro ugh the skin, are the worst k i n d o f e x p o s u r e t h a t a f irefighter has. Yet up there every firefighter meets the call, and they're there on duty bravely fighting that fire. We should all salute them today for what they do. It was a very happy event, in addressing those con- cerns, that today the Minister of Labour and Citizens' Services announced a future extension, which began in March 2005, of coverage of cancers that are a result of long-term exposure to these kinds of risks.

Effective immediately, testicular cancer has been added to the list that doesn't require justification for treatment. To- day we, the government, announced that lung cancer in non-smokers would also be covered. I can speak confidently. These resolutions were passed unanimously by both sides of the House, and I'm sure we can look forward to their support. I'd also like to acknowledge the hard work of the ex- ecutive of the firefighters that have brought these things to pass.

Secretary-treasurer Harold Hoyming, vice-president Tim Baillie and president Al Leier have been working hard to achieve these benefits for their members. In my constituency Chad Parker, Ron Daley, Brian Wood, Mike Rispin and Bill Eggers have been tireless in persisting forward with the case to make this for all firefighters. So let's all su pport what the firefighters have been doing. WOMEN'S CAMPAIGN SCHOOL S. Hammell: There's a unique school tooling up this weekend that addresses a unique problem.

The non- partisan Women's Campaign School will be held at SFU Harbour Centre, with the opening reception being hosted at the home of a former member of this House, Joy MacPhail. This school is the longest-running school of its kind in Canada that teaches women the skills to run success- ful election campaigns. I have spent time in North Africa and in the Middle East working with women candidates who are trying to find their voice in the political system.

Every time I speak about women's participation outside of Canada, I am clear that my home country does not have an exemplary record around including women in our political culture. In Canada women constitute 51 percent of the popula- tion, yet the number of women elected to positions across Canada remains less than 25 percent. This Legislature just breaks 20 percent, and we have never elected, in an at- large election, a woman as Premier of a province or as Prime Minister.

This record does not put us anywhere near the top of the list of countries that acknowledge that the way for women to be recognized is through a collec- tive voice heard within the circles of government. The Women's Campaign School hopes to encourage and inspire women to assume leadership roles in political life. Some of the courses include campaign strategies and securing the nomination, and some of the speakers in- clude our current Minister of State for Childcare, who has always been a strong supporter of this school, and Penny Priddy, former B.C. NDP MLA and cabinet minister.

Both are honorary chairs of this school. This school is one important strategy to address the lack of women's voices. Let's wish all the women par- ticipating in that school much success. [1345] ACCESSIBLE PLAYGROUND IN COQUITLAM I. Black: On June 19 in my riding there's going to be a very, very special ribbon cutting. We're going to open a park, a very special park. It 's special for two reasons. It's special because of those who will use it, and it's special because of those who made it a reality.

Carlie Collins came home from teaching one day, musing that one of her stud ents was left out from one of the most important things that children do — play. So she turned to an organization in our community that has a long and proud history of proving their motto, "Serv- ing the community's greatest need." The Kinette and Kinsmen members of Coquitlam formed a plan that involved the provincial and munici- pal government and then took on a mission of ensuring that the mentally and physically challenged are included in our community, in their community.

The Coquitlam Kin Accessible Playground at Towne Centre in Coquitlam will do just that. Children who are physically or mentally challenged will have

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12967 the use of playground facilities specifically designed to their specific needs. Children of all ages and abilities will have the opportunity to play together in this inclu- sive playground. Whether children are visually impaired, autistic or paraplegic, the equipment design of this safe and ac- cessible playground will cater to everybody. In fact, it'll even provide opportunities for parents in wheelchairs to play alongside their able-bodied kids. It will include high-back swings with straps, a circuit with high and low points, and two ramp accesses.

Ad- ditional features include transfer points to help people using wheelchairs and a creative marine structure with a variety of strength and ability options. The Kinette and Kinsmen members and the clubs have a long, long history of community service in Co- quitlam, raising funds for everything from Eagle Ridge Hospital to Big Brothers Big Sisters and the Kinsmen Foundation itself, to name but a few. This is yet another permanent reminder of the importance of this organiza- tion and the tireless efforts that they show day after day.

I'd like you to join me in saluting them for their ingenuity, their tenacity, their compassion and their citizenship. Let's hope the kids have fun too. HAIDA HERITAGE CENTRE G. Coons: I don't think there is anything more re- freshing than having a moment to speak about an excit- ing event that is happening in one of my communities. I'd like to take the opportunity to talk about the grand opening of the Haida Heritage Centre at Qay'llnagaay, which will take place on August 23 in Skidegate.

The 53,000-square-foot centre replicates a traditional Haida seaside village, the village of Qay'llnagaay, or the sea lion town, which once stood on the site. It's a series of longhouses connected by interior walkways and atrium spaces. As the location of the newly expanded Haida Gwaii museum, with its many exhibits and artifacts, this expan- sive multipurpose centre houses a multitude of cultural treasures. Exhibits featured in the museum deal with con- tact and conflict, the potlatch and the repatriation story, as well as a tree gallery and natural history exhibits.

Even far more breathtaking is a canoe house, home to the Lootaas, a 50-foot Haida war canoe carved by the late Bill Reid for Expo 86 and paddled from Vancouver to Skidegate, as well as its modern sister the Looplex, which is made of fibreglass. I f y o u l i k e f o o d , a s I ' v e n o t i c e d m o s t o f u s i n t h e House do, you'll be as excited as I am to visit the eating house where visitors learn about the preparation, pres- entation and preservation of traditional foods as well as a chance to try delicious Haida cuisine.

Even if these were the on ly services located in the centre, there's plenty more to get excited about. One of the most intriguing and exciti ng parts of the centre is a carving shed, which gives Haida carvers the opportu- n i t y t o w o r k o n l a r g e r m o n u m e n t a l p r o j e c t s s u c h a s canoes and totem poles. In the last three years, three dugout canoes were carved from start to finish. I'd like to join the Skidegate band Chief Councillor Willard Wilson in praising the Haida Heritage Centre and welcoming you, my colleagues, and people from across the province to its gr and opening on August 23.

I'm sure you'll be stunned not only by the beauty and magnitude of the centre and the culture it showcases but also by the warmth of Haida hospitality. You'll be sure to get a big Haida thank you, Há'waa, from all the Haida. GREEN-POWERED STREET LIGHT IN STEVESTON J. Yap: They say an ill wind blows no good, but in my riding of Richmond-Steveston the wind, whether it is ill or not, can blow good things. As members know, everyone is trying to do their part to reduce green- house gases and help our environment.

My community o f R i c h m o n d i s a t t h e f o r e f r o n t o f c h a n g e s t o h e l p u s become carbon-neutral. [1350] On May 14 a street light was erected in Garry Point Park in Steveston, which will be powered 100 percent by green energy sources. The technology used will be a combination of solar and wind power that will send the power to a battery pack, lighting a 70-watt LED light from dawn to dusk — the same amount of power provided by a standard light. The system lighting the park is called the Innoair 600PV, and it's from the Vancouver- based company Innovative Air Solutions.

Although there are some solar-powered systems in place around the province, th is is the first wind-solar hybrid to be tested in Canada. As we know all too well, southern B.C. can count on wind more often than sun. In fact, after testing this light for several months, it will be determined whether or no t this light could function with only wind power. Most people look at green alternatives as more ex- pensive, but these lights come at a price which is 25 percent less than the standard street light.

They also do not require any electrical cables, no proximity to a power grid, and have longer-lasting lights attached. The elimination of cables is predicted to cut down on metal thieves tampering with infrastructure. The test- ing of this light will continue for the next few months, and if successful, these lights could be popping up in other important Richmond locations and, hopefully, expanded to other B.C. communities.

Thank you to Michael McLennan, co-owner of In- novative Air Solutions; Ri chmond city council and Mayor Malcolm Brodie; and Robert Gonzalez, general manager of engineering and public works, for this in- novative green alternative for all British Columbians today and in the future. DOUG STEAD D. Thorne: I rise today to talk about Coquitlam entrepreneur and outspoken child abuse activist Doug Stead, who has just been invited to be the keynote speaker at the University of Cork in Ireland at a confer- ence dealing with child abus e and the role that tech-

12968 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 nology plays in its proliferation. The message that Stead brings is that we are in the midst of a global pan- demic. His area of expertis e is around how pedophiles use technology and how they are early adopters of this technology. Stead owns Coquitlam's Tri-M Systems, a very suc- cessful high-tech firm. He says that people like him have been inventing and making a lot of money on technology but that some of the earliest adopters of technology are the criminal elements.

Because of this, he says that all the p e o p l e w h o h a v e b e e n m a k i n g l o t s o f m o n e y a n d d o i n g well in technology should maintain, as he does, a personal obligation towards combatting this criminal element — the people who use technology to exploit young children. Frustrated by what he perc eived as the total inaction on the part of law enforcement and government at the time, Stead established the organization Entrepreneurs Against Pedophiles with six other tri-city entrepreneurs about two decades ago.

This group has funded on-line training of RCMP officers and published a child's life skills book, which has also been used to help with psy- chological profiling in the prison system. They have worked extensively with municipal, provincial and fed- eral law enforcement. Doug Stead is also working alongside corporations like the Bill Gates Foundation, Visa and Mastercard in trying to make the public more aware of these serious issues.

He believes that increased public awareness will result in the kind of political awareness that is necessary to bring more resources to the allocation of prevention, deterrence and treatment. Government attention and the allocation of resources are necessary for future genera- tions to have better life outcomes. Oral Questions PREMIER'S COMPLIANCE WITH CONFLICT-OF-INTEREST GUIDELINES G. Gentner: Sometime between May and July of 2005, the Premier bought shares in Terra Energy Corp. The Premier's Terra shares were not held in a blind trust or a non-self-directed mutual fund or RRSP plan.

On October 26, 2005, while holding shares in Terra Energy, the Premier signed order-in-council 787, which gave potential tax breaks for pipeline developments to companies like Terra Energy. The Premier later sold his shares in Terra for a profit. Can the Premier tell this House what steps he took, if any, so that he was not in a conflict of interest when he signed order-in-council 787? [1355] Hon. M. de Jong: Thanks to the member for the question.

If the member has an allegation he wishes to make, he can avail himself of the Office of the Conflict- of-Interest Commissioner, which is there to serve all members of the House and which all members of the government abide by strictly. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. G. Gentner: As a legislator in British Columbia, I find the time line here somewhat troubling. It appears that the Premier bought shares in a company, brought in tax breaks for that company and then sold his shares for a profit.

My question to the Premier is: who did the Premier clear this apparent conflict with before signing the order- in-council? Hon. M. de Jong: I can assure the hon. member that the Premier and every single member of this govern- ment and this government caucus take their obligations pursuant to the Members' Conflict of Interest Act very seriously and abide by those requirements. Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supple- mental. G. Gentner: If the Premier takes it seriously, why won't he stand up here an d defend these so-called allegations? Interjection. G.

Gentner: We're talking about the highest office in this province. The highest office in this province cannot be compromised. When questions were raised by my colleague the member for Malahat–Juan de Fuca about the Premier's handling of Alcan when holding shares in the company, the Premier said then that it was all okay because those shares were pa r t o f a n R S P . H i s e x c u s e was that someone else was managing his Alcan shares, but that wasn't the case with his Terra shares. So I'll ask the Premier again.

Why didn't the Premier protect himself and British Columbians by placing his Terra shares in a blind trust? Hon. M. de Jong: The member has quickly crossed the threshold and begun to make allegations. If he has allegations to make, he should first of all avail himself of the proper avenue and take the matter to the Conflict- of-Interest Commissioner, an office that serves all members of this chamber. Instead he chooses, as is typical of this member and this opposition, to make allegations — unsubstantiated allegations. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: I can assure the member and every member of this House that this Premier and each member of this government understand their obliga- tions under the Members' Conflict of Interest Act and abide by those obligations. L. Krog: Well, if the Premier takes his obligations seriously, then he should answer this House. The

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12969 Members' Conflict of Interest Act is clear. It states: "…a member has an apparent conflict of interest if there is a reasonable perception, which a reasonably well in- formed person could properly have, that the member's ability to exercise an official power or perform an offi- cial duty or function must have been affected by his or her private interest." The Premier's decision to sign an order-in-council that benefited Terra Energy certainly appears to, at the very least, give a perception of a perceived conflict of interest.

So the simple question to the Premier is: why did he sign that OIC knowing that he held shares in Terra Energy? Hon. M. de Jong: Well, I can actually understand this member's hesitation to make these sorts of allega- tions in writing or to pursue them with the Conflict-of- Interest Commissioner, because each time he has done so in the past, he has failed.

Each time he has done so in the past, he has been the recipient of a withering attack in reply from an officer of the Legislature or someone as esteemed as the deputy to the Attorney General. [1400] So if the member has an allegation to make, there is a route available to him and to the opposition to make it. Their refusal to avail them selves of that option tells me that they are more interested in what they have done throughout the life of this parliament, and that is rake muck and besmirch the reputation of individuals.

I can assure this House that this Premier and this gov- ernment take their obligations under the act seriously. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. L. Krog: I would have thought that this govern- ment wouldn't welcome another investigation to be added to the lengthy list already. Let's be clear here. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. L. Krog: The Premier bought shares in Terra. Then he signed an OIC bringing in tax breaks for pipelines, which increased the profits of companies exactly like Terra. Then he sold his shares. How can the Premier claim he's not in a conflict? Hon.

M. de Jong: The recurring theme from not just this member but this opposition is that they want to be the judge, jury and executioner. It must be…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M. de Jong: It must be remarkably inconven- ient for the hon. member to have to come to terms with the fact that there is a legislative officer called the members' Conflict-of-Interest Commissioner, who is in place to address matters such as this. Now, I under- stand that it is inconvenie nt, especially when you've got the record of this member of constant failure, but the member…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon.

M. de Jong: If the member has an allegation that he would like to make and to be taken seriously, then perhaps he should begin by availing himself of that. In the meantime, I again assure all members of the House that this Premier and this government take their obligations seriously under the act and fulfil their obli- gations under the act. J. Horgan: It's a pleasure to hear from the minister of defence, who when on this side of the House had no qualms about making allegations about anything that passed between his ears. What we're doing today….

As the Conflict-of-Interest Commissioner has told me and other members of this House, individuals are accountable for their actions. The office is there to receive information, dispense with it and put it into disclosure so that the public has an understanding of what individuals are doing. In this instance we have the Premier signing an order-in-council, making a private company more prof- itable — a company that he held shares in. Six months after signing the order-in-council, he disposed of those shares — presumably making a profit. In anyone's understanding and in Mr.

Hughes's understanding of the act, that is an apparent conflict. So my question is to the Premier. Will he stand in this place and defend himself and tell us why he signed the order-in-council to make his company more profitable? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. M. de Jong: The member wonders why he and his colleagues aren't taken seriously. It is because time and time again, they make these spurious allega- tions within the confines of this chamber where they enjoy a privilege that doesn't exist outside those doors. If the member wants to make that kind of allegation, make it outside.

File the complaint. In the meantime, un- derstand that each member of this government abides by their obligations under this act, including the Premier. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J. Horgan: Individual members in this House are accountable for their actions. My question through you, hon. Speaker, to the Premier is: was he aware when he signed order-in-council 787 that he had shares in Terra Energy and that signing that order-in-council made

12970 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 that company more profitab le and, therefore, share- holders more money? Was he aware of that when he signed the order-in-council — yes or no? Hon. M. de Jong: Typically, this member does not want to be accountable for taking the appropriate step and filing that assertion with the officer that is ap- pointed by each and every member of this House. Why? Because it's far more convenient politically to stand in this chamber and make spurious allegations, as they have time and time again.

That's why British Columbians don't take this member or this opposition seriously. [1405] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR FOREST WORKERS C. Trevena: North Island College has just an- nounced its involvement in retraining forest workers who have been thrown out of work because of this government's inaction. Under the government scheme, each worker is allowed up to $5,000, which is a one- time payment for just one year.

But if a person needs to upgrade to get on to a retraining program, the money just covers the upgrade costs, or if the training program runs two years, they won't be eligible to get any costs covered in the second year. I'd like to ask the minister responsible whether he'll guarantee that people who have lost their jobs due to this government's complete failure to manage the for- est industry at least get fully compensated for all up- grading and retraining they need to get the job. Hon. C. Hansen: I am very pleased that we have this program that has been rolled out in a matter of only a few days.

I compliment the public servants that have worked tirelessly to make sure that this program is available to forest workers around the province as we speak. They can go on line and apply for these funds. It does provide them with up to $5,000 for covering tui- tion costs for programs of their choosing around the province, so it is a big plus. We've had great feedback from forest workers who recognize that it's going to help them get access to trai ning that they would not have got access to otherwise. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. C.

Trevena: We are actually talking about a one- time payment for one year, and we're talking about people who live in rural communities. I'm not sure that the minister realizes this. This government has not just mismanaged the forest industry; it's also slashed fund- ing to the higher education, which means there is less college funding available. So for North Island College, we've seen cuts that have particularly hit hard the Port Hardy campus, which means people would have to go to Campbell River or further south.

I'd like to ask the minister whether he will commit to ensure that the forest workers already displaced from their industry receive compensation for travel to their retraining and for the accommodation they would need for their retraining, so they can take full advan- tage of any retraining package. Hon. C. Hansen: First of all, just to correct the member, North Island College has not received a cut. They are receiving more money in this fiscal year from the provincial government than they've ever received in the history of this province. Second…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat.

Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Continue, Minister. Hon. C. Hansen: So we are working to make sure that forest workers who have been displaced from the indus- try around the province get access to tuition support. They get access to bridging to retirement if that's what's important to them, or they get access to short-term jobs in forest-dependent communities around the province.

That's what this government is working for — working to support displaced forest workers and at the same time making sure that we work around the world to improve markets for B.C. forest products so those workers are going to be back at work at the earliest possible opportunity. K. Conroy: According to the community develop- ment assistance program for unemployed forestry workers, the definition of a forestry worker is one who's been impacted on or after May 1, 2007. What about the unemployed forestry workers who were af- fected prior to that date?

What about the workers who were affected when the current crisis started in the fall of 2006? What program is this minister going to offer to those workers, who were some of the first to suffer for some of this government's forest policies? [1410] Hon. C. Hansen: We recognize that there are some forest communities going through transition around the province. That is exactl y why this government put in place $185 million for the Northern Development Trust.

That's exactly why th is government put in place $50 million for the Southern Interior Development Initiative Trust and $50 mill ion for the Island Coastal Economic Trust — to make sure that those communi- ties can actually map out th eir economic future, to cre- ate new jobs and new industries and new opportunity

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12971 to replace those that may be lost in the forest downturn. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. K. Conroy: Let's take a look at some of those communi- ties: New Westminster, Powell River, Port Alberni, Prince George, Midway, Mission, Vernon, Lumby, Squamish, Nanaimo, Maple Ridge, Kelowna, Lytton. Only some of the communities in this province were affected? All of those communities — all of them — have forestry workers who were affected prior to May 1, 2007.

They don't qualify for the federal gov- ernment funding, and most of them don't qualify for the other funding that you're talking about…. Interjection. K. Conroy: Because they've already applied, and they don't qualify. These workers are being le ft out in the cold. This government — what are they going to do about it? Is this just collateral damage, and you're just going to let them suffer for your policies? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. C. Hansen: Actually, if you look at some of the unemployment rates around the province….

Let's go back to 1998 in the K ootenays, when the unem- ployment rate was 12 percent. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. C. Hansen: I think the opposition may want to listen closely, because these are important numbers that they should actually pay attention to. In 1998 in the Kootenays, the unemployment rate was 12 percent. The latest unemployment rate, for April of 2008, was 2.5 percent. Let's take the Vancouver Island region. The mem- ber for North Island was asking the question earlier. Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member.

Hon. C. Hansen: In 1998 the unemployment rate was 9.7 percent, and today it 's 4.6 percent. I could use example after example, regi on by region where the unemployment rates are dramatically lower today than they were during the 1990s. People are getting jobs in British Columbia today. We know that some forest families are suffering. That's exactly why we're working with them. We're getting them tuition support. We're supporting those commu- nities, and we're going to make sure that they, too, can enjoy the dynamic economic pr osperity that we see in British Columbia today. B.

Simpson: I wonder what the unemployment rate is in Mackenzie or Fort St. James or Chetwynd or Mid- way or Campbell River. I wonder why we're not get- ting those statistics. This minister keeps talking about these trusts that no forest worker can apply to, and the minister knows it full well. The minister stated twice in this House that the Premier directed that every dollar of the $129 million from the federal government go to forest workers. But the minister must know that $11 million, at least, will go to overhead costs. That's $11 million that is not go- ing to forest workers.

The $118 million that's left, the minister knows, is a paltry sum relative to the need that's out there for forestry families and for communities — paltry. This government has abandoned forest workers who lost their jobs. How else would you describe it to cut the date off…? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1415] B. Simpson: How else would you describe it — to cut off workers before May 1, 2007? That is shameful. Surely the Premier must see… Mr. Speaker: Member, pose the question, please. B. Simpson: …that this fund is inadequate. Will he commit today to put provincial resources to this crisis? Hon. C.

Hansen: Actually, just to continue on with some of the regions around the province. This member for Cariboo North will be interested in knowing that in 1998, the unemployment rate in the Cariboo was 14.5 percent. Here we are ten years later, and the unem- ployment rate is down to 7.7 percent. The difference between…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. C.

Hansen: The difference between the oppo- sition and the government is that we are travelling a r o u n d t h i s p r o v i n c e b r i n g i n g h o p e t o f o r e s t w o r k e r s around British Columbia. The opposition members

12972 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 are going into communities and spreading fear and spreading lack of hope abou t the future, when in fact those communities have good futures. We're going to support them. We're going to work with those forest workers, and we're going to bring them some reason to be optimistic about the future. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. B. Simpson: What this government is spreading is false hope. This minister said in this House today… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B. Simpson: …that this program has been rolled out. I phoned Enquiry B.C. today.

They told me that the office hasn't even opened yet, and all they can do is refer people to the webpage. It's the same dead end. The Minister of Forests says that it was supposed to go live November 15. The government has known for five months of getting this program, and they still don't have a plan. They still don't have a strategy. The minis- ter knows full well from the discussions that are occur- ring with industry and work ers that this fund is not enough. They know that full well. So my question is to the Premier.

Rather than cut- ting workers off May 1 of 2007, will the Premier make sure that every forest worker that needs it is eligible for this fund, every community that needs it is eligible for this fund? Will the Premier top this fund up so that this crisis is addressed by this province as well as the fed- eral government? Hon. C. Hansen: In less than seven days after this fund was rolled out, we had an on-line system where individual forest workers could go and apply for tuition assistance. That is active now. That is working now.

In less than five days after this was announced, we had officials from the Ministry of Economic Develop- ment, from the Ministry of Forests, from the Ministry of Community Services, who were in the communities of Mackenzie and the community of Fort St. James working with those communiti es to make sure that these dollars can flow as fast as possible to the benefit of those individual forest workers. FUNDING FOR BUY B.C. PROGRAM C. Evans: My question is for the Minister of Agri- culture. StatsCan now says that British Columbia is the only province west of the Maritimes to lose money in agriculture last year.

We lost $117 million. The minister — to his credit, I think — said that it would be a good idea to stop being commodity producers, aim for a niche and brand our products to sell to ourselves. You know, hon. Speaker, I've been trying to get Buy B.C. back for a long time. The minister has got hun- dreds — the Minister of Finance too…. You probably have file cabinets full of people asking for Buy B.C. back. The farmers want it back. Investment Agriculture said that they want it back.

I suspect that the reason we can't get Buy B.C. back would be because to bring it back would be to suggest that something that happened in the decade of the 1990s was a good idea. So hon. Speaker, just… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. C.

Evans: …in case I might be right, I'd like to use question period to do a bit of a deal, only through you. [1420] If I was able to guarantee that I would not and my leader would not and some 30-odd people on this side of the House would never say, "I told you so," would the Minister of Agriculture then be able to reach back, take the very good, affordab le idea that makes B.C. products saleable in our own market and reinstate Buy B.C.? Hon. P. Bell: In fact, the member opposite seems to be fixated on Buy B.C., and I understand why that is. It's because during the 1990s, everyone in B.C. said goodbye to B.C.

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Please sit down. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, we're not continuing until there's silence. RESPITE SERVICES FOR DISABLED CHILDREN N. Simons: Suzana and Jeff Pekrul's daughter Kaitlyn has severe disabilities, including microcephaly, severe developmental disabilities and sleep apnea — all requiring 24-hour care. Both parents work full-time. They've been doing the best they can to care for their daughter. Last November her condition took a turn for the worse.

They've been advocating, and they've been successfully advocating with doctors and health pro- fessionals that they need more respite care. But they've been waiting for six months after being promised another reassessment. It's very difficult for families in this circumstance to advocate, and we should not be put in the situation of having to advocate for each one of these families individually when it's this government's policies that fail them all at once.

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12973 Will the minister commit to looking into this situa- tion and all the other situations of desperate and vul- nerable families to ensure they get the respite they need to care for their children? Hon. T. Christensen: I will agree with the member that respite services are a critical service to many fami- lies across our province. That's why over the last number of years we've seen an increase in the resources available to support respite.

We have a host of programs that are supported by the Ministry of Children and Family De- velopment, as well as Community Living B.C., to try and ensure that we are assistin g families in meeting the needs of their children — whether it's supported child development, whether it's the At Home program, whether it's respite that is supported at Canuck Place, whether it's respite in-home or out-of-home. There are a host of se rvices.

I am more than pleased, in individual cases that that member or any member of this Legislative Assembly brings to my at- tention, to look at what we can do to further support, day in and day out…. Whether it's Community Living B.C. staff or staff at the Ministry of Children and Family Development, we are working with families to try and ensure that we are supporting them to raise their children as best they can. FUNDING FOR CULTURAL CURRICULUM IN B.C. SCHOOLS J. Kwan: China has offered financial assistance to the B.C. Liberal government.

The funds are to be di- rected to the Ministry of Education to develop Manda- rin and cultural courses in B.C. schools. These courses will become part of the grades 10, 11 and 12 official curriculum. I want to make sure that the development of B.C.'s curriculum is not for sale. Can the Minister of Educa- tion tell this House: how much money will B.C. receive from China? Will the minist er confirm that the devel- o p m e n t o f t h i s B . C . c u r r i c u l u m f o r B .

C . s t u d e n t s w i l l not be influenced by China, by the Beijing-funded Con- fucius Institute or by th e Chinese Language Council International? Hon. S. Bond: One of the things that I've heard as I've travelled across British Columbia, particularly from parents and their students, is that in British Co- lumbia families want the oppo rtunity for their children to learn new languages. Mand arin is certainly one of those. [1425] This government has a relationship-building oppor- tunity with China.

We are go ing to make sure that we work with BCIT to create a course that meets the expec- tations of British Columbia curriculum. But we look forward to developing strong and important cultural relationships that will bring benefits to both students and British Columbians. [End of question period.] D. MacKay: I seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members D. MacKay: I think most of us have watched that program Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?

A couple weeks ago I was in the community of Houston at the Twain Sullivan School, and I went through a question period of my own with the grade 5 students. Let me tell you, these kids are getting a great education. They're joining us in the chamber today. I should mention the fact that when we went through our ques- tion period at the Twain Sullivan School, the behaviour of the students in that classroom was quite a bit different than what we see in this chamber here. I just want to compliment those children, if they're upstairs right now.

W i t h u s t o d a y w e h a v e A n n H a r n e s s , w h o i s t h e teacher of these 26 grade 5 students, accompanied by 12 students from the community of Houston. Would the House please make them welcome. B. Simpson: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions B. Simpson: I have a petition here with 2,489 signa- tures collected by the Dogwood Initiative, demanding the Forests Minister's resignation for his continual betrayal of the public trust through forest privatization schemes. Hon. B. Penner: I seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed.

Introductions by Members Hon. B. Penner: I understand that Mr. Bob Chisholm, my immediate predecessor as MLA representing Chilliwack, and his wife Janet are here in the legislative precinct. I ask the House to please make them welcome. L. Krog: I ask leave to file a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions L. Krog: It's a petition calling for the suspension of rules and regulations around locally produced, fresh-laid, free range farm eggs and to allow their sale outside farm gates, signed by nearly 300 citizens of Gabriola Island. Tabling Documents Hon.

J. van Dongen: I rise to table the 2007 annual report for the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia.

12974 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 S. Fraser: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Petitions S. Fraser: I present a petition with hundreds more signatures from British Columbians demanding laws be brought forward for safe antifreeze. R. Chouhan: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. R. Chouhan: Residents of Metro Vancouver are presenting this petition as king for affordable transit — public transportation. G. Coons: I seek leave to present a petition. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. G.

Coons: It's a petition from some 428 residents of Prince Rupert to put an immediate halt to any and all drilling for coalbed methane in the Sacred Headwaters of our most pristine rivers the Skeena, the Nass and the Stikine. Mr. Speaker: Just a reminder to members when they're presenting petitions. You cannot lay a charge of any nature or of any kind when you're presenting a petition. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: Just an additional reminder to members to attend to the personal effects in their desks during the course of the week. It helps the staff at the completion of the session.

In this chamber I call continued committee stage debate of Bill 25, Health Professions Amendment Act and in Committee A, continued estimates debate — for the information of members, Committee of Supply, the estimates of the Office of the Premier. [1430] Committee of the Whole House HEALTH PROFESSIONS (REGULATORY REFORM) AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 (continued) The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 25; S. Hammell in the chair. The committee met at 2:32 p.m. On

section 17. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 17 standing in my name on the orders of the day. [SECTION 17 (c), by adding the text shown as under- lined: (

c) in paragraph (

g) by striking out ", functions" and substituting ", powers" and by adding "the registrar, deputy registrars or other" before "officers",.] On the amendment. A. Dix: Sorry, just briefly on the amendment — maybe the minister could explain. We'll zip through these quickly, I think. Hon. G. Abbott: The addition of the term "powers" is to ensure that it is clea r that the authority exists to the college. And "the registrar, deputy registrars or other" added before "officers" is, again, to clarify the officials who have those powers under the act. Amendment approved.

Section 17 as amended approved. On

section 18. Hon. G. Abbott: I'd like to move the amendment t o s e c t i o n 1 8 s t a n d i n g i n m y n a m e o n o r d e r s o f t h e day. [SECTION 18 (e), by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

e) in subsection (6.1) by striking out ", (l.4), (

m) or (n)" and substituting "or (l.4)(1.3)",.] Amendment approved.

Section 18 as amended approved. On

section 19. [1435] Hon. G. Abbott: I'd like to move the amendments to

section 19 standing in my name in orders of the day. [SECTION 19 (d), (

e) and (g), by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

d) in subsection (2.1) (

a) by striking out "the health pro- fession" and substituting "a health profession" and by striking out " jurisdiction" and substituting "province or a foreign jurisdiction", (

e) in subsection (2.1) (

b) by striking out "the health pro- fession" and substituting "a health profession" and by striking out " jurisdiction" and substituting "province or a foreign jurisdiction", (

g) in subsection (3) by striking out " If an applicant" and substituting "Despite subsection (2), if If a per- son applying for registration", by striking out "that an applicant" and substituting "that a person apply- ing", by striking out " register the applicant" and substituting "grant registration to the person" and by striking out "set limits or conditions on the prac- tice of the applicant." and substituting "impose lim- its or conditions on the practice of the designated health profession by the person.",.]

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12975 [SECTION 19 (h), in the proposed

section 20 (4.4) by de- leting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined:

(4.4) Limits or conditions imposed in accordance with subsection (2.1), (3), (4.2) or (4.3) may be different for different registrants within the a class of r e- stricted registrants or provisional registrants, as the case may be.,.] [SECTION 19 (j), by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

j) by adding the following subsection:

(7) If the registration committee decides, under this section, (

a) to refuse a person’s application for registra- tion, or (

b) to grant a person registration for a limited period or with limits or conditions imposed on the practice of the designated health pro- fession by the person, the registration committee must, within 15 30 days of making its decision, deliver written no- tice to the person respecting the decision and advising of the person’s right to apply for a re- v i e w o f t h e d e c i s i o n u n d e r s e c t i o n 5 0 . 5 4 o r t o appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, as applicable.] On the amendments. A. Dix: Just briefly, this is a package of amend- ments.

The one key amendment here — maybe the minister could speak to it; I don't think we discussed it yesterday — is the shift from 15 days' notice to 30 days' notice. As I understand it, this is a reflection on…. I think it's the final of the amendments here, which is to 19(j)(7). Well, it's the existi ng act. Anyway, it's one of the several amendments that shift the notice time from 15 days to 30 days in making a decision. I presume what this is, is just a reflection of the practical realities of minute-taking and of ensu ring that, in fact, the in- formation isn't rushed. It's actually accurate.

I think this was a reflection of number of colleges who made this case, and it seems reasonable to me. Maybe the minister might comment just on that ele- ment of the amendment. I think there is…. I may have the amendment wrong here, but I think it's the final of the amendments to

section 19 which talks about within 30 days of making its decision. Hon. G. Abbott: The change just reflects the meet- ings

schedule that the colleges have. Amendments approved.

Section 19 as amended approved. On

section 20. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment standing in my name to

section 20 in orders of the day. [SECTION 20, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 20 The following

section is added: Notice to applicant for certification 20.01 If a college has established one or more classes of certified non-registrants and the person or commit- tee authorized under the bylaws of the college to certify persons as certified non-registrants refuses an application for certification, the person or committee must, within 15 30 days of making that decision, deliver written notice to the applicant re- specting the decision and advising of the appli- cant’s right to request a review of the decision un- der

section 50.54.] Amendment approved.

Section 20 as amended approved.

Section 21 approved. On

section 22. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment standing in my name to

section 22 in the orders of the day. [SECTION 22 (c), by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

c) by repealing subsection (2) (

a) and substituting the following: (

a) entering into agreements with one or more gov- erning bodies respecting (

i) the interjurisdictional practice of the health pro- fessions, (ii) the recognition of another governing body’s pro- cedures for and results from the assessment and verification of the credentials, competencies or other qualifications of persons educated or trained in another province or a foreign jurisdic- tion, (iii) the implementation of a trade agreement, as it relates to labour mobility, prescribed by the min- ister, andor (iv) any other matter related to the labour mobility of health professionals;, and.] On the amendment. A.

Dix: I wonder if the minister could clarify the purpose of the amendment, just for the record. Hon. G. Abbott: These amendments are very mi- nor. It is just adding "a" for clarity in the one section, changing "or" from "and" in another and adding "and" at the end of the amendment. Amendment approved. On

section 22 as amended. A. Dix: On

section 22 as amended, we're talking about interjurisdictional agreements between colleges and the approval of the minister in that regard. I wonder if the minister can tell us what kinds of agree- ments we're talking about here, just so that we can be clear on that. I think this would be agreements in terms of establishing national standards or regional

12976 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 standards. What kinds of agreements are we talking about here? [1440] Hon. G. Abbott: These relate to interjurisdictional agreements between provinces. So for example, the Col- lege of Pharmacists in British Columbia has a mobility agreement with the College of Pharmacists in Ontario. Similarly, the College of Physicians and Surgeons in British Columbia has a mobility agreement with the Col- lege of Physicians and Surgeons in Ontario.

Section 22 as amended approved. On

section 23. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment standing in my name on orders of the day to

section 23. [SECTION 23 (b), by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

b) by adding the following subsection:

(1.2) If a board appoints a deputy registrar or deputy registrars under subsection (1), the board may, by bylaw, authorize the deputy registrar or deputy registrars to perform some or all of the duties and exercise some or all of the powers of the registrar set out in the bylaws, subject to any limits or conditions specified in the bylaws.,.] Amendment approved.

Section 23 as amended approved. Sections 24 and 25 approved. On

section 26. A. Dix: In this case, I just wanted to clarify the in- tent of this

section with th e minister. It's adding the term "unethical conduct" in its definition. It's some- times a challenge with these amendment bills, but I just want to clarify the import of this section. Hon. G. Abbott: I am advised that the term "un- ethical conduct" should have been in there from the start, so it's housekeeping to add it back in. Sections 26 to 34 inclusive approved. On

section 35. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 35 standing in my name in the orders of the day. [SECTION 35, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 35

Section 34 is repealed and the following substituted: Notice of disposition 34 If the inquiry committee disposes of a matter under

section 32 (5) or 33 (6) (

a) or (b), the inquiry committee must, within 15 30 days of disposition, deliver to the complainant, if any, a written

summary of the disposi- tion advising the complainant of the right to apply for a review by the review board under

section 50.6.] Amendment approved.

Section 35 as amended approved.

Section 36 approved. On

section 37. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 37 standing in my name on orders of the day. [SECTION 37, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 37

Section 36 (1.1) is repealed and the following substi- tuted:

(1.1) If a consent or undertaking given under subsection (1) relates to a complaint made under

section 32 (1), the inquiry committee must, within 15 30 days of the consent or undertaking being given, deliver to the complainant a written

summary of the con- sent or undertaking advising the complain- ant of the right to apply for a review by the review board under

section 50.6.] Amendment approved.

Section 37 as amended approved. On

section 38. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment standing in my name on the orders of the day to

section 38. [SECTION 38, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 38

Section 37.1 is amended (

a) by repealing subsection (3) (

a) and (

b) and sub- stituting the following: (

a) the inquiry committee must make an order consistent with the proposal, and the order is considered to be an order of the discipline committee made under

section 39, and, and (

b) by repealing subsection (6) and substituting the following:

(6) If the inquiry committee accepts a pro- posal under subsection (5), it must make an order consistent with the proposal, the o r d e r i s c o n s i d e r e d t o b e a n o r d e r o f t h e discipline committee made under

section 39, and

section 38 has no further applica- tion to the complaint or matter that is the subject of the hearing.

(6.1) Section 39 (3) (

a) to (

c) applies to an order made under this

section as if the order had been made by the discipline committee.] [1445] On the amendment. A. Dix: I just wanted to ask the minister to explain the amendment. Hon. G. Abbott: I am advised that this is house- keeping for the purposes of greater legal certainty. Amendment approved.

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12977

Section 38 as amended approved.

Section 39 approved. On

section 40. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 40 standing in my name in orders of the day. [SECTION 40, by adding the following paragraph: (c.1) in subsection (9) (

a) by adding "made under subsec- tion (2)" after "stay the order",. ] Amendment approved.

Section 40 as amended approved. On

section 41. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment standing in my name on the orders of the day for

section 41. [SECTION 41, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 41 The following sections are added: Unprofessional conduct in another jurisdiction or while practising as a registrant of another college 39.1

(1) If the discipline committee learns that (

a) another college established under this Act or a body in another province or a foreign jurisdiction that regulates a health profession in that province or foreign jurisdiction has found, either be- fore or after the registrant was regis- tered under

section 20, that the regis- trant committed

an act that, in the opin- ion of the discipline committee, consti- tutes unprofessional conduct under this Act, or (

b) the registrant has admitted, either be- fore or after the registrant was regis- tered under

section 20, to another col- lege established under this Act or to a body in another province or a foreign jurisdiction that regulates a health pro- fession in that province or foreign juris- diction, that the registrant committed

an act that, in the opinion of the discipline committee, constitutes unprofessional conduct under this Act, the discipline committee may, without issu- ing a citation under

section 37 or conducting a hearing under

section 38, make an order under

section 39 (2) respecting the regis- trant, and

section 39 (3), (5) and (7) to (10) to (9) applies as if a determination had been made under

section 39 (1) by the discipline committee.

(2) The discipline committee may take action under subsection (1) only after giving the registrant the following: (

a) notice of the proposed action, in accor- dance with the bylaws; (

b) a copy of the record of the relevant deci- sion or findings made or action taken by the other college or body; (

c) an opportunity to be heard, which may be limited to a hearing in writing.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a certified copy of a record of the decision or findings made or action taken by the other college or b o d y i n r e s p e c t o f a r e g i s t r a n t i s p r o o f , i n the absence of evidence to the contrary, of the findings made or the action taken, with- out proof of the signature of the person purporting to have signed on behalf of that college or body. Consideration of past action 39.2

(1) Before taking any action respecting a regis- trant under the following provisions, the registrar, inquiry committee or discipline committee may consider any action previ- ously taken under

Part 3 respecting the reg- istrant: (

a) in the case of the registrar or the inquiry committee,

section 32, 32.2 or 32.3; (

b) in the case of the inquiry committee, sections

section 33 or sections 35 to 37.1; (

c) in the case of the discipline committee,

section 38 (8), 39 (2), (5), (8) or (9) or 39.1 (1).

(2) The registrar, inquiry committee or disci- pline committee may, in applying subsec- tion (1), consider (

a) any action under

Part 3 respecting the registrant that occurred or was recorded before the coming into force of this sec- tion, or (

b) any action, similar to an action that may be taken under

Part 3, that was taken by the governing body for a health profes- sion under a former enactment regulat- ing the health profession. Public notification 39.3

(1) Subject to subsection subsections (3) and (4), the inquiry committee or discipline commit- tee, as the case may be, must direct the regis- trar to notify the public of the information set out in subsection (2) with respect to any of the following actions: (

a) an action taken under

section 32.2 (4) (b), 32.3 (3) (b), 33 (2) or 35 (1);, (

b) a consent or undertaking given under

section 36 (1) in relation to a serious matter;, (

c) a consent order made under

section 37.1;, (

d) a determination made under

section 39 (1) (

a) to (d), or; (

e) an order made under

section 38 (8), 39 (2), (5), (8) or (9), 39.1 (1) or 44 (1) or (2).

(2) The following information must be included in the notification required under this section: (

a) the name of the registrant respecting whom or the health profession corpora- tion respecting which the action was taken; (

b) a description of the action taken; (

c) the reasons for the action taken.

(3) In the following circumstances, the The in- quiry committee or discipline committee, as the case may be, must direct the registrar to withhold all or part of the information oth- erwise required to be included in the public notification under this

section in the follow- ing circumstances:

12978 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 (

a) the inquiry committee or discipline committee considers it necessary to pro- tect the interests of the complainant, if any, in the matter, or another person, other than the registrant, affected by the matter; (

b) the complainant, if any, in the matter, or another person, other than the regis- trant, affected by the matter, has re- quested that the notification not contain information that would tendcould rea- sonably be expected to identify the complainant or the other person.

(4) In the case of a determination made under

section 39 (1) (e), the discipline committee must direct the registrar to notify the public in accordance with this

section if the com- mittee is satisfied that (

a) the interests of the complainant, if any, in the matter will n o t b e p r e j u d i c e d b y public notification of the determination, and (

b) the public interest in public notification of the determination outweighs the pri- vacy interests of the registrant respect- ing whom the determination was made.

(4) Subject to subsection (5), in the case of (

a) an admission by a registrant that he or she suffers from a condition described in

section 33 (4) (e), or (

b) a determination made regarding a reg- istrant under

section 39 (1) (e), the inquiry committee or discipline commit- tee, as the case may be, must direct the regis- trar to withhold all or part of the informa- tion otherwise required to be included in the public notification under this

section if the information could reasonably be expected to identify the registrant or personal health in- formation of the registrant respecting the condition.

(5) In the case of a determination made regard- ing a registrant under

section 39 (1) (e), in- formation respecting the registrant must not be withheld under subsection (4) unless the discipline committee is satisfied that the privacy interests of the registrant outweigh the public interest in public notification of the information.

(6) If information respecting a registrant is withheld under subsection (4), the public notification must indicate that information has been withheld. (5 7) The notification required under this

section may be made by posting a notice on the col- lege website. Funding for therapy and counselling 39.4

(1) A board must establish a program for its col- lege to provide funding, in accordance with the regulations, for therapy and counselling for a person who has been psychologically or emotionally harmed as the result of pro- fessional misconduct by a registrant while the registrant was providing services to the person.

(2) A person is eligible for funding under sub- section (1) only if (

a) the discipline committee has made a finding that the registrant committed professional misconduct with respect to the person while the registrant was providing services to that person, and (

b) the requirements prescribed by the min- ister are met.] On the amendment. A. Dix: Just to let the minister know, we're going to focus primarily today on the amendments. I think we've been well briefed on other parts of the bill. These are obviously key amendments that maybe the minister can take us through. We had a little discussion on this earlier, so we're not going to dwell on it too long, but there are some key questions here. I think we're taking th e amendments as a group here, so I'll ask the minister to kind of lay out the gov- ernment's thinking with respect to these amendments. [1450] Hon. G.

Abbott: I appreciate the House allowing us a few moments to go through this long section. I'm advised that in terms of the amendment for 39.1, this is a housekeeping amendment th at clarifies which sub- sections of 39.1 would apply to an order. I'm advised, with respect to 39.2, that this is in one instance a grammatical correction. It also adds a sub- stantive change in that it adds a

section which provides the legal authority for a disciplinary committee, for example, to look at the prior record — I guess would be the best way to put it — of the practitioner. I don't mean a criminal record. So it allows the disciplinary committee or others to look at what had occurred in the past and makes clear the legal authority to do that. In 39.3, again, the phrase that is substantively im- portant here is 39.3(1)(

b) and the phrase is "in relation to a serious matter." Again, this is the phrase that would make a distinction between a serious matter and a minor matter in relation to the gravity of the matter, as we had discussed at some length yesterday. And 39.4 does not change at all, even in a minor way. It is just in there because of the changes that had been made to the other subsections of 39. A. Dix: Sorry. This is

section 41, but we're talking about

section 39. So I'll just make myself clear. Is it the case that one of the amendments here — I just want to clarify — allows essentially a witness in a case or someone who witnessed a complaint to also have their identity withheld. Is that what I understand? I'm talking about the amendments to 39.3(3)(

b) that state that a complainant "or another person, other than the registrant, affected by the matter, has requested that notification not contain information that could reasonably be expected to identify the complainant or the other person." Is that, in fact, one of the amend- ments here? In other words, intent would be to protect the iden- tity, obviously, of the compla inant, if there was a case

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12979 of misconduct, say, and there's someone else who is a witness to the event whose relationship with the com- plainant, I assume, is such that it would allow you to identify the complainant. Am I correct to say that's one of the amendments here, or am I on the right amend- ment? If that's the case, that sounds like an appropriate amendment. In other words, the intent here is to ensure that people who are not directly involved in the case might be witness to the case and have their identity protected. Am I on the right amendment? Hon. G.

Abbott: Yes, the member is. [1455] A. Dix: What that would do would be to ensure that — I don't know — if some event took place involv- ing whoever it involves and if another person is a wit- ness to that…. How will that kick in? How will their identity be protected? Can they request to have their identity protected? Would it be automatically pro- tected? What would the circumstances of that be? Hon. G. Abbott: The answer to the member's ques- tion is that the complainant may request that.

An inno- cent third party may request that, and if neither of those things occurs, the committee may still consider whether the interests of the complainant need to be protected, even if that anonymity is not requested. A. Dix: So that provision is kicked in by a request from the complainant or th e witness or the innocent third party in any event — however you would de- scribe it. I just wanted to explore a little bit what we explored yesterday, because we're on the right

section now. It's the definition of "serious matter." We had this discussion yesterday, and we chose a couple of examples. It seems to me, in just reviewing different colleges and their ca ses and so on, that there's actually quite a range of matters that aren't defined under the act as serious matters. Serious matters mean, as I understand it…. Well, it says here in the legislation that it "means a matter whic h, if admitted or proven following an investigation under this Part, would ordi- narily result in an order being made under

section 39(2)(

b) to(e)." That's what it says. That

section refers to matters that have resulted in the following disciplines: limits or conditions on their practice, suspension of registration, the imposition of limits on the management of their practice during sus- pension or a cancellation of registration. It seems to me, in discussing this matter with peo- ple at the college, that they'r e actually matters that are not defined as serious but quite significant matters, which might result in mandatory training or manda- tory counselling that falls short of serious matters.

I guess I want to ask the minister about that, because yesterday we were talking about this issue of not deliv- ering enough babies under the act, and I think I gave the example of a cell phone going off during a counsel- ling session. There's actually quite a range of matters here that aren't serious. In a sense, this definition of serious means that how serious is defined…. It's not really in the legislation; it's defined by the colleges themselves, you know, by their decisi on. They're creating the framework of what is serious by their penalty.

I wanted to ask the minister about the discussion of that, because it seems to me that here we're talking about, in some cases, instances or problems with a given practitioner that might be quite — I'm going to try and use another word than serious — interesting to a member of the public who might want access to that information and make a decision about a particular practitioner. That might be interesting to them, but it doesn't reach the level of seriousness required here. I guess I'm asking whether….

Looking through the case files, if there was an incidence, for example, where significant punishment was put in place, in a sense, or significant problems took pl ace with a practitioner, a person under a given college, and say that person was ordered by the college amongst other things to required counselling or something, but no limits were placed on their practice, that might well be a serious matter.

It would be the college that would essentially be, by virtue of their punishment, defining it as not serious. [1500] So I just want to ask the minister if he's satisfied with that definition, because in a sense, this is one of the most significant amendmen ts he's putting forward, or whether he thinks the colleges need more guidance than that which is contained in the legislation in order to define "serious." Hon. G. Abbott: Sometimes I am fascinated by the Byzantine complexity of all this, but I'll do my best. Let's begin with

section 26, which defines "serious matter." It means "a matter which, if admitted or proven following an investigation under this Part, would ordinarily result in an order being made under

section 39 (2) (

b) to (e)." Then, we go to

section 39(2)(

b) to (e). It reads: "If a determination is made under subsection (1), the disci- pline committee may, by order, do one or more of the following…." So only one of these is necessary, al- though multiples of them may exist: "(

a) reprimand the respondent; (

b) impose limits or conditions on the respondent's practice of the designated health profession; (

c) suspend the respondent's registra- tion; (

d) subject to the bylaws, impose limits or conditions on the management of the respondent's practice during the suspension; (

e) cancel the respondent's registration; (

f) fine the respondent in an amount not exceeding the maximum fine established under

section 19 (1) (w)." I think the member was as king about an instance…. Would it be possible in an event of this sort that the practitioner, presumably to try to skirt the possibility of public notification, agrees to go into counselling but doesn't have practice suspended? Well, I'm advised that the historical practice of the college is that one does both. You get suspension of practice as well as a commitment to enter into counselling. [1505]

12980 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 The change that will occur with the passage of this bill is that if the complain ant is dissatisfied that the college has not recognized the public interest in terms of public notification of a practitioner — again, in the instance where the licence has been suspended and/or they've gone into counselling for the condition — the complainant will have the opportunity to go to the review board and say: "This does not meet the interests of the public.

There must be notification here." The review board will have an opportunity to look at that and, I guess, effectively adjudicate whether the college has made the right determination around that point. A. Dix: But isn't there just…? What's required, I gather, is both suspension and a limit on practice. Are there not cases where, in th e absence of a suspension, a limit on practice is provided? Let me give you an example. Someone decides, legitimately, that the person can continue to practise. The college decides the person can continue to practise, but there are limitations on that practice put in.

For example, someone else has to be in the room. This is one of the cases that were put forward. I'm not refer- ring to a specific case. So the college says, "You can continue to practise massage therapy or chiropractic or whatever you're doing, but someone else has to be in the room when you're practi sing," for whatever reason that is. But there's no suspension. First of all, does that happen? I think it has. Sec- ondly, is that sufficiently serious to be viewed as seri- ous under the act? I guess that's what I don't under- stand. If it says "serious" and a limit on practice….

I want to sort of see what the definition or the limit is on that definition of "serious." Hon. G. Abbott: I am advised that the set of cir- cumstances that the member sets out would trigger public notification, with th e exception of the circum- stances noted — again, mental health, etc. A. Dix: And that would be the case even if there was a continuation of the practice. In other words, sus- pension of practice means some sort of limitation placed on the practice. Is that what I'm to understand by "suspension"? Hon. G. Abbott: The answer, I understand, is yes. A.

Dix: Just with respect to the issue of avoidance of publication based on sort of personal health issues of the member of the college, of the practitioner, is the minister not concerned…? I mean, not everything has to do with everything else. Is the minist er not concerned that that will become a defence that will be used to protect not the complainant but protect the person who is committing, essentially, the offence under this act or committing the deed that requires, in some fashion, punishment? Is he concerned about th e balance?

Does he think that, in fact, the appeal proc ess is sufficient to ensure that the balance on this issue of disclosure isn't weighted too much in favour of the practitioner? I guess the reason I ask is that while it's true that the practitioners in all these cases have serious interests — and this may be used to assist them, in fact, in get- ting over those conditions — I think it's also true to say that it's very, very difficult in all of these cases for any- one to bring forward a complaint, particularly a com- plaint of a serious nature.

So in a sense, the compla inant also has interests and will find it difficult to pursue that interest. Asking them, in a sense, putting the onus on them to appeal…. I guess the question is: is that the right approach, given that the complainants in many cases, one would imagine, is go- ing through something very difficult themselves? [1510] Hon. G. Abbott: The hypothetical case the member cites…. Again, I guess that ultimately we do have to have a measure of trust that the judgment of the college disciplinary and other committees will be sound.

Is it possible that, notwithstanding that sound judgment, on some occasion they migh t deviate from good sense? Well, I suppose that is theoretically possible. However, again, I think the context of that decision-making is very important. We would be in a situation where, first of all, the practitioner would have to have one of the demonstra- ble conditions which are set out in the act — that is, mental health, the physiological issue of a brain tu- mour or something like that , or a compelling addiction issue that caused a deviation from patterns of accept- able behaviour.

Further, before even that theoretical possibility reared its head, there would be removal from practice of the practitioner. There would have to be a commit- ment to the appropriate form of treatment or therapy, which would be geared to remedying the physical or mental or other condition that affected the practitioner. In terms of sort of unde rstanding the context of pro- tectionism that is embraced in the hypothetical model that the member puts forward as well, we have to con- sider that there are also public members or public repre- sentatives on those college authorities.

They're not all representing the practice that, presumably, the practitio- ner is a part of as well. In th e last instance, there is also the matter of appeal by the complainant to the review board. Should some error of judgment have been made, hypothetically, they could be called to task for that. So I would say that I am comfortable with this. I think the safeguards around these things are sufficient that we will get the outcomes that we hope and antici- pate that we will get.

Again, I suppose that I would have to weigh what I think is a very modest risk around the hypothetical scenario the member has put forward against the risk that would be inherent in not having these amendments. I do think that in the ab sence of these amendments, there is a heavier risk that an individual practitioner who is affected by a compelling physiological condi- tion or a compelling mental illness or addictions issue might be doubly shamed and stigmatized, when that was not the outcome which we sought.

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12981 Amendment approv ed on division. On

section 41 as amended. A. Dix: I just have a question now, back to the main motion. It's around the provision of counselling for victims. I'm just going to ask this question because the College of Physicians and Surgeons, in their letter to the minister, asked the question. I just wanted to make sure that they got the right answer.

They said: "With respect to the specific wording of subsection 39.4(2) — i.e., eligibility for funding under this provision, 'Funding for therapy and counselling' — we note that the current wording would exclude professional misconduct wi th former patients and question whether this is the intention." Is it the inten- tion? [1515] Hon. G. Abbott: We have just a little doubt about exactly what question is being asked. We think that the letter is asking about former registrants. It is not the intention of the act that it apply to former registrants.

Hopefully, we've answered the question, but we're just a tiny bit in doubt about whether that was the intention. Interjection. The Chair: Excuse me, Member. A. Dix: So 39.4 reads that the "board must establish a program for its college to provide funding…for ther- apy and counselling for a person who has been psycho- logically or emotionally harmed as the result of profes- sional misconduct by a registrant while the registrant was providing services to the person." So it is, I think, the intent, as I understand it. And that's the question here, I gu ess, by the College of Phy- sicians and Surgeons.

They sa y, and this is under (2): "A person is eligible for funding under subsection (1)" — which is that

section I just read — "only if (

a) the discipline committee has made a finding that the regis- trant committed professional misconduct with respect to the person while the registrant was providing ser- vices to that person, and (

b) the requirements pre- scribed by the minister are met." I guess the question would be whether a member of a college who wasn't formally providing services under the act, but may meet a former patient, is still a mem- ber of the college or may be defined as a member of the college — but is not providing services technically and still commits the misconduct. I think that's what the college was asking. It's really a question from them. I ' d b e h a p p y , b y t h e w a y , o n t h i s … . I ' l l s e n d o v e r the letter of the College of Physicians and Surgeons — just to make sure.

Further, beyond this, this seems like a very good innovation. One of the complaints just on this section, one of the questions…. Ontario put a maximum, I think, on the amount of funding. The college has had some concerns about this. It seems, though, to be the right approach. Did the minister consider the concerns ex- pressed by some of the colleges seeking a maximum or a limit on this? And presumably — and I would agree with him — he rejected those limits. But did that discussion take place, and why did he reject the limit — which I have to say I agree with? [1520] Hon. G.

Abbott: I think I understand the member's question. This is about a professional acting in a profes- sional capacity. It would not involve a practitioner outside of a professional capacity and a relationship, for example, with a significant other of some sort. So I think that's what the question was, and I think that's the answer — the pro- fessional acting in a professional capacity. The second point around lim its. That's not an issue that's addressed in this legislation. I don't believe there's been a discussion yet with the colleges around whether there should be limits.

If there are limits established, they would have to be established by regulation.

Section 41 as amended approved. On

section 42. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 42 standing in my name on orders of the day. [SECTION 42, by deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: 42

Section 40 is amended (

a) in subsection (1) by adding “or 39.1” after “39” and by striking out “or the board may appeal”, and (

a) by repealing subsection (1) and substituting the following:

(1) A college, a respondent described in

section 38 (2) or a registrant described in

section 39.1 (1), aggrieved or adversely affected by an order of the discipline committee under

section 39 or 39.1 (1), may appeal the order to the Supreme Court., and (

b) by repealing subsections (4) to (6) and substitut- ing the following:

(4) The petition commencing an appeal under this

section must, within 14 days of its filing in the court registry, be served on (

a) the college, effected by service on the registrar, if the appellant is a respondent described in

section 38 (2) or a registrant described in

section 39 39.1 (1), (

b) the respondent or the registrant , if the appellant is the college, and (

c) the complainant, if the matter relates to a complaint.

(5) Only the persons required to be served un- der subsection (4) (

a) and (

b) may be parties to an appeal.] On the amendment. A. Dix: Ju st briefly , I ju st wa nt to m ak e su re I u n- derstand the amendment. I don't think it's particularly significant. Maybe the minister could just let me know.

12982 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 Hon. G. Abbott: My apologies. We weren't quite able to hear the member's question there. A. Dix: Just on the amendment, the purpose of it. It looks like housekeeping. I just want to make sure that my understanding was, in fact, correct. Hon. G. Abbott: I am advised that the changes in this

section are purely housekeeping. Amendment approved.

Section 42 as amended approved. Sections 43 to 47 inclusive approved. On

section 48. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendments to

section 48 standing in my name on orders of the day. [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.53 (1) (

c) by de- leting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined: (

c) on application by a complainant under

section 50.6, to review a disposition of a complaint made by the inquiry committee under

section 32 (3), or 33 (6) (

a) to (

c) or 37.1;.] [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.54 (12) by de- leting the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined:

(12) The review board must, no later than 15 30 days after making its order under subsection (9), de- liver a copy of the order to the parties to the re- view.] [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.55 (2), (4), (5) and (6) by deleting the text shown as struck out and add- ing the text shown as underlined:

(2) If a complaint made under

section 32 (1) or an in- vestigation by the inquiry committee under sec- tion 33 (4) has not been disposed of under

section 32 (3) or 33 (6) within the period prescribed by the minister, the inquiry committee must, not later than 15 30 days after the expiry of the prescribed period, deliver written notice of that fact and an expected date of disposition to the following: (

a) the registrant under investigation; (

b) the complainant, if any.

(4) If the inquiry committee has not disposed of the complaint or the investigation by the expected date of disposition set out in the notice required under subsection (2), the inquiry committee must, not later than 1 5 30 days after that date, deliver written notice of and reasons for the de- lay, a new expected date of disposition and the right to apply for a review under

section 50.57 to the following: (

a) the registrant; (

b) the complainant, if any; (

c) the review board.

(5) The new expected date of disposition referred to in subsection (4) must not be later than 30 45 days following the date of the expected date of disposition set out in the notice required under subsection (2).

(6) If the inquiry committee has not disposed of the complaint or the investigation by the new ex- pected date of disposition set out in the notice required under subsection (4), the inquiry com- mittee must, within 15 30 days after that date, de- liver written notice to that effect to the following: (

a) the registrant; (

b) the complainant, if any; (

c) the review board.] [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.57 (1) by delet- ing the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined:

(1) A registrant or any complainant may apply to the review board for review of a complaint or investigation described in

section 50.53 (1) (

b) no later than 15 30 days after the date on which the notice required under

section 50.55 (6) is deliv- ered to the registrant or complainant.] [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.58 (2) by delet- ing the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined:

(2) The review board must, within 15 30 days of re- ceipt of the application, deliver written notice of the action taken or to be taken by the review board with respect to the matter to (

a) the inquiry committee, (

b) the registrant, and (

c) the complainant, if any.] [SECTION 48, in the proposed

section 50.6 (9) by delet- ing the text shown as struck out and adding the text shown as underlined:

(9) The review board must, no later than 15 30 days af- ter making an order under subsection (8), deliver a copy of the order to the parties to the review.] On the amendments. A. Dix: We have a number of amendments here that maybe, just quickly, the minister can take me through. I don't have any significant questions about it, except that it seems to ma ke this 15-to-30-day thing consistent through the act. If that's the case, that's the question I have, and it is with respect to these six amendments that we've packaged together here. Hon. G.

Abbott: These amendments are strictly housekeeping, again reflecting the matter we discussed earlier — taking the 15 and making it 30 to better re- flect the meeting

schedule of the college. [1525] Amendments approved.

Section 48 as amended approved. Sections 49 to 59 inclusive approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 59.1 standing in my name on orders of the day: [SECTION 59.1, by adding the following

section under the “Health Professions Amendment Act, 2003” heading: 59.1

Section 17 of the Health Professions Amendment Act, 2003, S.B.C. 2003, c. 57, as it enacts

section 25.2 of the Health Professions Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 183, is amended by adding the following sub- sections:

TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12983

(5.1) In the case of a suspension under subsection (3) or (5),

section 39.3 applies as if (

a) the suspension were an action specified in

section 39.3 (1), and (

b) the board were the inquiry committee.

(6.1) For the purpose of subsection (6) (b), sections 39 (2) (

b) to (e), (3), (8) and (9), 39.3 and 40 apply as if the board were the discipline committee.] Amendment approved.

Section 59.1 approved. On

section 60. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the amendment to

section 60 standing in my name on orders of the day. [SECTION 60, by deleting the text shown as struck out: 60

Section 17 of the Health Professions Amen d- ment Act, 2003, S.B.C. 2003, c. 57 , as it enacts

section 25.5 of the Health Professions Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 183, is amended (

a) in subsection (1) (

e) by adding “established un- der

section 19 (1) (t)” after “committee”, and (

b) by repealing subsection (2).] Amendment approved.

Section 60 as amended approved.

Section 61 approved. Hon. G. Abbott: I move the addition of

section 61.1 standing in my name on orders of the day. [SECTION 61.1, by adding the following section: 61.1

Section 17, as it enacts

section 25.6 of the Health Professions Act, R.S.B.C. 1996, c. 183, is amended (

a) in subsection (8) by striking out “ section” and substituting “ sections” and by striking out “applies” and substituting “and 39.3 apply”, and (

b) by adding the following subsections:

(5.1) In the case of an action taken under subsection (2) (

c) or (4) (

d) or (e),

section 39.3 applies as if (

a) the action were an action specified in

section 39.3 (1), and (

b) the registrar or executive commit- tee, as the case may be, were the in- quiry committee.

(6.1) If the executive committee orders under subsection (6) (

b) that the inquiry commit- tee cease an investigation under

section 33, (

a) the order is considered to be a disposi- tion, under

section 33 (6) (b), by the in- quiry committee of a complaint, and (

b) section 34 and

Part 4.2 apply as if the executive committee were the inquiry committee.

(6.2) If the executive committee orders under subsection (6) (

b) that the inquiry commit- tee delay undertaking an investigation under

section 33, (

a) the executive committee must, no later than 30 days after the order is made, deliver written notice of and written reasons for the delay to the com

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0527pm-02
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0527pm 02
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8ce7edab3e4d271abd6ffda499526874c4733bdc

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