VOL. 2 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 10:00 A.M. - 1:00 P.M. Friday, May 6, 1983. NO. 35

May 6, 1983 Tape No.l838 The House met at 10 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. MARSHALL: MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker. JV - 1 MR. SPEAKER: the Council. The han. the President of MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, by way of a statement I have a telex that I want to read, ~he text of a telex that was forwarded yesterday prior to the re-commencement of drilling and the han. gentlemen there opposite will be very disappointed to know that Mobil actually contacted the Provincial Government prior to re-commencing drilling. Anyway, this is the text · of the telex that was sent to Mr.

William Mason, the President of Mobil Canada,yesterday morning which reads as follows: " The stop-drilling order issued by the Provincial Government on February 23, 1983, has now been raised. "This decision has been made on the basis of technical information and advice formulated and rendered through the professional staff at the Petroleum Directorate. IIWe cannot see this order lifted witho .ut once again pointing out that natural events proved beyond doubt that our action in issuing the order was correct.

The fact that you were forced to cease drilling and apparently have been unable to contemplate resumption until now demonstrates beyond doubt the wisdom of our action. To us the fact that ice conditions continued until early May bears out information available from 3940

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1838 JV - 2 MR. MARSHALL: scientific and professional services upon which we based our order. This information, now verified from experience, was available to all and it was unfortunate that only the Provinr.P ~f Newfoundland was prepared to heed the ominous warnings obtainable from it. The attitudes and reactions to that order by other concerns responsible for offshore activity will hand like a dismal pall in the history of offshore exploration off this Province. "Now that the perceived threat to safety has been removed, the Province's objection to drilling is withdrawn.

We trust activities offshore can now resume in the same positive climate that existed prior to issuance of the stop-drilling order. 11 Mr. Speaker, I would like also, just by way of comment, to point out as well, that at this end of this particular

chapter in the story of the offshore exploration off this Province, that I feel it was a tragedy that order had been countermanded and equally a tragedy 1 that the countermanding of the order appears to have been accepted as many things seem to be accepted in this Province in a very acquiescent manner. If we do not watch out, one of these days, the old adage ' Lie down, roll over and die', we are not going to get the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to roll over because ·; zap_' _ we are going to be dead. 3941

May 6, 1983 'rape 183'9 E:C ,... 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what a joke! It is really laughable, Mr. Speaker. The rigs were on the site yesterday at 3:00 P.M. ready to start drilling. MR. WARREN: Yes, they flew over. MR. NEARY: Yes! Rigs cannot fly, they have been on their way back to the site now probably for the last seventy-two hours. Certainly they were on the way to the site twenty-four or forty-eight hours before the hon. gentleman sent off his telex, Mr. Speaker. What they are trying to do now is climb aboard the band­ wagon. Mr.

Speaker, it is laughable and amusing. MR. WARREN: A cover-up. MR. NEARY: Well, it is not a cover-up, you could not call it a cover-up. They are running like lap dogs. Do you know what they remind me of, Mr. Speaker? crackies in a sausage factory! Yap, yap, yap! All they are doing is yapping like crackies in a sausage factory. They have no authority, there is no dialogue, no communica­ tion1 just - MR. WARREN: Send a telex. MR. NEARY: -send off a telex. Now, that is something for this Province that said several years ago, they owned the offshore and nobody would dare to intrude in their jurisdiction.

Now they are sending off little telexes - MR. WARREN: After the fact. MR. NEARY: - after the fact, Mr. Speaker. Why do they not just admit they have been a complete and utter failure in this matter, they have not been able to deliver on their mandate, and get back to the negotiating table and try to get this matter resolved as quickly as 3942

May 6, 1983 Tape 1839 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: possible, because that is what the people want. The only reason that crowd over there exist today is because of that one issue in the last election, to negotiate an agreement on the offshore, and they have been unable to deliver on it, Mr. Speaker . They should admit man-fashion they are a failure instead of coming in with these little foolish telexes, They are running just to keep up with what is going on. Mr. Speaker, it is shameful and contemptible. ORAL QUESTIONS MR. NEARY: Mr . Speaker. MR. SP EAKER (Ay lward)): The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR . NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I have a question or two for the Minister of Health (Mr. House). In view of statements of a serious nature that are being made by the Newfoundland Medical Association and the Newfoundland Hospital Association, is the han. gentleman going to continue to bury his head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich,or is he going to admit that he has goofed and made a colossal blunder in connection with the delivery of health care in the hospitals in this Province and try to turn it around, do something about it before something serious happens? Is he going to admit his blunder, Mr.

Speaker, and do something about it or is he going to continue to bury his head in the sand? 3943

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1840 MJ .... 1 MR. SPEAKER {Aylward}: The hon. the Minister of Health, MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, what a question to ask. He does not know any of the details or any of facts and he comes with a stupid question like that. Mr. Speaker, the fact of tne matter is I have been dealing with this particular matter for three weeks to a month now, this very specific matter about what hospitals will be doing to live within their budgets. We have visited with every hospital board prior to the budget giving them some knowledge of the kind of increases they would be given.

We gave roughly 12 per cent increases to all hospital boards and we have asked them to try and live within that amount of money. And I might mention, Mr. Speaker, that is the biggest increase any hospital group in any province got this year. The maximum they are getting is less than 10 per cent across Canada. As a matter of fact 1 they are getting 6 per cent in l-iani toba, 7. 9 per cent,I believe 1 in Ontario. So it is a matter of them living within the parameters of the budget that we have given them.

Now, one of the things they said to me, Mr. speaker, was let us have the budget at the beginning of the year so that we can adjust and put our programmes in place,and that is what is happening now.

Of course, one of the problems, as I stated in the House the other da~ is that they are coming with good programmes, and some hospitals are coming in and saying, 'We can live with this and we can have slowdowns at particular times.' One of the real problems with that,and it is one that we are trying to face up to if we can get them together to agree with it,is the fact that everybody wants to do their compressions of the budget at the same time, everybody wants to have the slowdown in the Summer,and that can create some problems and it may create some problems. That is why we 3944

ay 6, 1983 Tape No. 1840 MJ - 2 MR. HOUSE : are setting up meetings jointly with some of the hos:>itals in close proximity to one another to try and stagger some of the impact. So, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that we are not hiding our head in the sand; the fact of the matter is that we are doing everything we can to help the hospital boards in every way to ease this problem . ~-le know that there is a shortfall compared to what they wanted, I am not so su .re there is a shortfall compared to '"hat they need, but it is certainly a shortfall compared to what they wanted and we ackno wl edge that. I think the hospital boards 3945

May 6, 1983 Tape 1841 PK - 1 MR. HOUSE: were in error when they said we did not. Because I stated that here is the budget, here is what we are setting up here, we are setting up a Commission to look at health care cost in the Province. Also adjust your programme and we will put in place a monitoring committee to monitor the impact. Now there is nothing put in place yet to monitor, so the Impact Committee members have not yet met. And when they do , Mr. Speaker, we will be listening to what they have to say. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: We have a new word now introduced in the vocabulary of this House by the hon. gentleman 'compression', a new word 'compression' of the budget. The only compression we have is compression of the thinking of the administration, Mr. Speaker. Now we are told by the Newfoundland Hospital Association, which made a public statement on this matter, I presume, as a result of the minister down­ playing the serious nature of this situation in the hospitals the other day in this House 1 that 300 beds will close in the next couple of weeks, and a lot of these beds may not reopen for some time.

Three hundred beds all closed at once, and the hon. gentleman says, 'This is not a serious matter'. Now, Mr. Speaker, how can the hon . gentleman stand in this House and admit that 300 beds will be shut down in hospitals all over this Province in the next couple of weeks without having a serious impact on the delivery of health care in the hospitals? How can the hon. gentleman tell us that people will not suffer , the sick will not suffer unnecessarily because of the hon·. gentleman's actions? MR. SJ'EAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. 3946

May 6, 1983 Tape 1841 PK - 2 MR. HOOSE: Mr . Speaker! the member is talking about 300 beds closing down in the next couple of weeks. I just made a statement - MR. NEARY: closed. MR . HOOSE : Some of them have already - and I used the word 'compression; that they want to put all of their downtime in a very short period , and therefore they would be closing fairly large numbers of beds for two months, three months, or a month in a couple of cases . What I am saying is to compress it all in that time it may crea~e problems. That is what we are looking at, Mr. Speaker .

That is why we have to meet with the hospital boards. If you do an analysis of the closures that they are talking about , it is about 2.5 per cent of beds, it would be less than 100 spread over the year. So I do not think that would create a lot of problems . I know of a number of years when there have been more than 100 closed throughout the Province, when you look at 3,300 acute care beds. 39 47

May .6, 1983 Tape No. 1842 SD - 1 MR. HOUSE: Each individual hospital board has not come back to me and said th~s is going to be a problem 1 They are coming back and saying to me we can live with this. But I am saying to them that if we close t.:r-~ ~·•hole 300 beds pcE.::::ibl:, it could create problems. And that is why, Mr. Speaker, I want to meet with the hospital boards jointly here in this city.

As a matter of fact, this is where the biggest problem is going to be because, of course, of the close proximity of hospitals, and if they will want to close down at the same time it is going to, possibly, create a problem. But it is not necessary for that problem to be because they can spread it over a longer period of time or work in unison, one hospital with another. That meeting is coming up. When we talk about 300 bed being closed , it is for a short period of time~ and if you look at that spread over a year, it is less than 100 beds. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward): Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman mentioned the figure of 100 beds have been closed down previous to this crisis, this chaotic situation, that th.e minister has developed in delivery of health _ care in this Province. There is a big difference in 10.0 and 300. Now, will the hon. gentleman tell us who is on that monitoring committee? Who is reporting to the hon. gentleman? Is it a committee of officials?

Do the registered nurses, for instance, does th .e Newfoundland Nurses 1 Association have a representative on that monitoring committee? Does the Newfoundland Medical Association have a representative on it or is it just a committee of officials: of the hon .. gentleman who will tell him what he wants to hear? Can 3948

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1842 so - 2 MR. NEARY: question for us? the hon . gentleman answer that MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : The hon. Minister of Health. Mr. Speaker, you do not deal MR. HOUSE : with these problems in that way,by trying to hide things away. I want to make clear what the monitoring cornmi ttee is. The Department of Health meets with the hospital boards from time to time. I met with them myself yesterday . But the department and the hospital boards meet to look at the problem . The monitoring committee is a committee tha ·t we have put 39 49

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1843 NM- 1 MR. HOUSE: in place to assess the impact of any cutbacks or any approac~ that any hospital or :Ooard takes. So they are not an administrative committee in any way. Now the members of the committee come from the Newfoundland Hospital Association and the Newfoundland Medical Association and the department. Now one of the people the Hospital Association appointed to that commitee is a nurse. So the three major groups involved will be monitoring this and making recommendations to us. Now they have not met and made any decisions. They are not decision-making, they are advisory.

They have not met to advise me as yet because there is nothing to advise on. None of the actions have been taken yet. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman has to be out of touch completely because two of the three grups that he just mentioned have gone public and talked about the serious crisis in the hospitals, the chaotic situation as a result of the shortfall in their budgets. The hon. gentleman kept referring to the committee, and that is why I asked ~ who is on this monitoring committee.

And now he tells the House that two out of three, the Newfoundland Medical Association and the Newfoundland Hospital Association, are on that committee and they have not met, they have not monitored anything yet. What a bluff, Mr. Speaker. Now let me ask the hon. gentleman this question, Mr. Speaker. Two out of three have gone public and said the situation is very serious. Now when does the hon. gentleman intend to sit down, as he should have done weeks and 3950

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1843 MR. NEARY: months ago,w ith the hos pital boards? Now he te lls us t here is going to be a meet ing, I presume that will be an emer gency meetin g,to determine how they can aver t any further deterioration of the situat ion NM- 2 in t~ z t~ ;~ ~~ ~ l=,~ ~ ~ause o~ .~ vu~· ~ closing 300 beds is bound to affect hea lth care and cause people to suffer unnecessarily. When will th is meeting take "place and will the minister guarantee tha t he will act on the recommendations of the boards if they have any when they get together? When will this meeting take place? MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward): The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I suppose I have to put it in baby talk because the hon. mehlber does not know what be is talking about. He is up there floundering saying that I have not met with boards. we have met with every hospital board. As a matter of fact,I met with a board again yesterday on matters other than dealing specifically with this particular matter. 3951

·'t;, May 6,1983 MR.HOUSE: Tape No. 1844 The fact of the matter is, Mr.Speaker, the two groupswent public. Perhaps that is a little unfortunate 1 particularly when they ah-1 are not reporting to their advisory committee. There are no actions yet, Mr.Speaker, to report on. There are no beds closed down as yeu. MR.HODDER: MR. HOUSE: There are beds closed. There are no beds closed down as a result of this. The reports that I have in now are saying this is the kind of thing that we anticipate we will be doing as of a certain date, and I have advised them of certain things that we would want to recheck.

Now I have stated categorically that we are trying to set up a meeting with the city hospitals to discuss their actions jointly, because what they are doing is they are overlapping and there are some problems going to be created there. And whatever steps are taken we have to co-ordinate them with the city hospitals particularly. So, Mr. Speaker, it is nonsense for him to say the Medical Association came out yesterday and stated that they are losing specialist doctors because of the actions of this budget.

I put it in their lap: I asked them to document for me any doctors who have left this Province because of this particular action in this last budget. I have not received a word back from them. I then contacted every hospital, or had somebody do it, and in the last year there have been seventeen specialists left the Province. Not one left for monetary reasons, not one,when I checked. MR. NEARY: MR. HOUSE: How do you know? Because they gave their reasons. Now, Mr. Speaker, to counteract that, nineteen new ones came into the Province, two more than were here last year. And not only that, Mr.

Speaker, but,recognizing that we have problems obtaining the services of 3952 I

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1844 ah -2 MR.HOUSE: specialists, we have put in place a bursary programme . Of course, we have new specialists coming in all the time. So right now , right at this point in time, there are more specia lists in this Provin ce than there ever was in the history of the Province before . And,as I said 1the people who have left are people who came here for two years . Some have gone back to their homes,Hong Kong and parts of the Unit ed States .

Now, the other question I would, of course, ask the Medical Association is with other hospitals across Canada only getting a 6 per cent incre as e, everybody less than 10 per cent, where are th e doctors going to go if they leave a place getting a 12 per cent increase? MR . NEARY : ·· Mr • Speaker • 3953

May 6, 1983 MR. SPEAXER (Aylward) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape No, 1845 MJ' '"' 1 The han. the Le~der of t~e , Mr. Speaker, the h~n. gentle~an said that it is unfortunate that two of the three groups who make up the monitoring committee went public. ~would say it is a good thing they did. What does t~e han. gentleman w~nt them to do, wait until people start dying like flies before the han. gentleman does something about it, Mr. Speaker? That is obviously what the han. gentleman wants, Jl.1r. Speaker.

The han. gentleman told us a coup~e of days ago in this House, yesterday or the day before, that he was going to meet with the administration Of St. Clare's Hospital. Now, has the han. gentleman met with St. Clare's? Could he tell us what plans they have, what the situation is at St, Clare's, where it seems,as of the latest infor.mation that we have,that sixty beds would close down for an indefinite period, five months or longer? Now what is the situation on St. Clare's? Did the han. gentleman have his meeting? Is he satisfied with the meeting?

Has he been able to do anything to stave off a very critical situation that is about to develop at St, Clare's Hospital? MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of ~ealth. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, the staff of the department I think have met with every hospital board across the Province. In some cases I get invited to attend the occasional one and 1 if I can attend,I do. I met with the Grace Has pi tal a couple of weeks ago and yesterday I met with the hospital board of St. Clare's. We had a very good meeting. We discussed a number of things.

The board may release what was discussed, It is not for me to release it; it was not my meeting, it was their meeting 1 and anything that comes out of 3954

Ma y 6, 198 3 Tape No. 1845 MJ - 2 MR. HOOS E: th at mee tin g the y wil l b e re por ting, These boards are autonomous. Let me say the m~eting was not just related to immediate action. The board has stated ~ ~t is public knowledge what they stated - l'lhat they are going to try to uo is to compress their budget, as it were, - - -- within a shor~ ~eriod of tim~But nothing has been decided yet because we are meeting jointly with all the boards. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward)": A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, a supplementary. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the hon. gentleman said in his answer that he attends the'occasional meeting 1' He said _tba,t the meetings are going on continuously between his officials and the boards and the han. gentleman just drops in occasionally, that is the impression that he left. Mr. Speaker, in view of the serious Ittature of this situation, that people are likely to die :as a result of the hon. gentleman's policy­ and the government refusing to acknowledge that this is a very serious matter-should ,the hon. gentleman 3955

J May 6, 1983 Tape 1846 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: not be down there night and day with these boards, trying to find solutions to this problem? Mr. Speaker, we are talking about human lives, and the han. gentleman ------ -- just brushes it off by saying that he attends the occasional meeting. Mr. Speaker, should the han. gentleman not call these boards into an emergency session to try to cope and deal with this situation rather than just shrug it off and downplay it,as he has been accused of 1 by the Newfoundland Hospital Association? MR. SPEAKER _ (Aylward) ; The han. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr.

Speaker, I suggest we could put another $100 million in the heal..th care fiel.d and we will still have people die. For a person to get up and say people are going to die because of this.~ I recall first when the budget carne down, Mr. Speaker, there were comments being made by various people and, I guess, it was the Executive Director of the Hospital Association who stated categorically the quality of care, of the work we do will remain high, we will be doing all emergency work, but he said, it will take us a little longer for other things.

Now, as· I said before,we did acknowledge that there may be some problems and as I said 1 that is why we took the initiatives we did to get that information back to us. And, of course, the person from the Medical Association going on the air yesterday and talking about losing specialists and that kind of thing without a jot of documentation in my estimation, perhaps it was unfortunate he did it that way. As I said, Mr. Speaker, everything is being done. We are on this night 3956

May 6, 1983 Tape 1846 PK - 2 MR . HOUSE : and day. Now I do not go around attending technical meetings of hospital boards, neither do I go around involving myself in areas where it is not necessary, but,as I said, I met with the Hospital Association ­ ! meet with them once a year at their annual meeting - I meet with the Newfoundland t-1edical Association, too, about two or three times a year . The hon. gentleman knows when yo u get involved in things that do not belon g in your jurisdiction, he knows 3957

May 6, 1983 Tape 1847 EC - 1 MR. HOUSE: He knows full well that it may become subject of a Royal Commission or some kind of a Mifflin report if you start interfering with things that do not pertain to your particular job. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the The hon. gentleman again is treating these matters as routine, just saying, 'Oh, I meet once a year with the Newfoundland Hospital Association, I meet annually with the Newfoundland Medical Association.' What I am suggesting to the hon. gentleman, Mr.

Speaker, is that if he is not prepared to get his head out of the sand and deal with this critical situation, then he should turn in his resignation to the Premier. The hon. gentleman knows full well that when specialists resign they are not going to - MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. MR.

MARSHALL: I realize the hon. gentleman is irritated by a reference made by the Minister of Health and it has put him into fits of flight and fancy, but the hon. gentleman is making a speech and it is a supple­ mentary question that is in order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, I would ask the Hon. the Leader of the Opposition to direct his question to the Minister of Health. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I feel sorry for the hon. gentleman and his references. It just goes to show how low and what they will stoop to. Mr.

Speaker, does the hon. gentle­ man expect specialists when they resign - and the hon. 3958

May 6, 1983 Tape 1847 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: gentleman is asking to have things documented - does he expect specialists to say, 'Well, the reason I am resigning is because of the cut in the provincial government budget''? Does the hon. gentleman really 1down in his heart, feel that that is what they would put in their resignation? Does he not agree that the Newfoundland Medical Association and the Newfoundland Hospital Association would know the real reasons why these specialists have resigned and are going to greener pastures? Is he saying that they do not know that?

The han. gentleman is asking an unfair question of the Newfoundland Hospital Association and the Newfoundland Medical Association when he asks to have these things documented, when it is virtually impossible for . them to document it. Maybe in some cases a specialist may be brave enough to put that in his resignation. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Order, please! On a point of order, the han. the president of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: I do not understand if the han. gentleman is on Question Period or if he is making a speech.

We are in supplementary questions to the main question. He has already asked about five or six and he should get on with his question. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! To that point of order, the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) has asked several questions. MR· NEARY: Yes, that is fine. I will wait for the answers, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I have asked for documentation because a statement was made for which there 3959

.:.. ~ay 6, 198'3 Tape 1847 EC - 3 MR . HOUSE·: was no background , as far as I am concerned , We have been dealing very closely over . the years with the problems of specialists in the Province. The hon, gentleman knows, of course, that the only job that Ministers of Health used to have back a few years ago was going overseas and trying to recruit doctors . It is a little more c9mplicated than that now, 39GO

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1848 SD - 1 MR. HOUSE: In the department we have people, when called on, assist in the recruitment of specialists. We have put programmes in place, and, Mr. Speaker, we do not put programmes and bursary programmes in place to encourage youna l\T.q,.r-FI')nJ"<'ll:;m""'rs to l)~~'"'"'"' specialists without doing some research. We have looked at the reasons, of course, why specialists come and go, and the reasons, in most cases, are very personal. We have, I guess, as much documentation of these kind of cases as does the Medical Association. And you might bear in mind too, Mr.

Speaker, that a lot of the problems in retaining specialists are not only financial , but involves a lot of medical politics as well. MR. NEARY: What an insult. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, it is not an insult. I stated at the beginning we are not closing specialists as a result of this action right now. I do not think the doctor who is the PR man for the Medical Association said that either. I think he might have said we may lose them, because the documentation is not there.

I just stated that the figures Ihave are there where seventeen who left in the last year - neither one, to my knowledge, left in the last month - and the other thing is that nineteen new specialists come here, Mr. Speaker, than we ever had before. As a matter of fact, there was available in this country one radiologist and practically every province was after that particular person, but this was the Province that got him by going and d±1igent1y offering him what we thought was· a very good deal. They are not sayin~ we have increased that particular 3961

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1848 SD - 2 MR. HOOSE: capacity by 50 per cent in the last year. So, Mr . Speaker, there is no shortage of specialists now. And, of course, we have two neurosurgeons in the Province, we cannot substain three and there is a little bit too much work for two 1 so you g~;, t. "' l it. t::..c bit of a backlog . So, Mr. Speaker, what I said, and I still stand by it, is that there is no specialist who has left the Province because of this issue right now. There may be in the future, I do not know, but certainly the documentation that I have b'een able to get does not indicate it now. MR. \m.RREN : Mr . Speaker. 396 2

May 6, 19.83 Tape No. 1849 NM- 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylwardl: The han. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins). During the past three weeks when the teachers were in a lockout position or labour dispute, it was calculated that roughly $20 million was saved from their payroll allocation.

Now that the government has saved approximately $20 million, knowing the serious conditions that we may be encountering in the health field in our Province with the potential closing of hospital beds and hospitals having to cut back their budgets, would the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) consider transferring most of this $20 million ~nto health care in the Province? I am sure that the teachers who were locked .out would very much appreciate saving the lives of other people with this $20 million they lost. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, a few inaccuracies in the question there: There was no lockout, there was a strike. Everyone knows that. MR. WARREN: It was not a .strike. DR. COLLINS: Everyone agrees with that. Lawyers on the other side agree with it. Our lawyers agreed with it. If it had not been a strike there would have been action against government in the courts. There was no such action. The federal government agrees with it because they would not give unemployment insurance to those people who were not working. I mean, you know, to go on with the ridiculous comment that there was a lockout is just nonproductive, Mr. Speaker.

There was a strike, everyone knows there was a strike and to continue to say 0~herwise is just plain foolishness. 3963

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1849 NM- 2 DR. COLLINS: In regard to the health question, the Minister of Health (Mr. House) is do~g an excellent job, as his answers indicated 1 and I am sure that if the minister has any matter to bring forward it will be brought forward in the appropriate fashion. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinnl, and it is related to this MED programme which is a prerequisite to getting a job on the offshore and other related marine activities.

I wonder if the minister can indicate just what agency does the selectinq for getting into these MED programmes and what the criteria are? Mr. Speaker, it is one of the most .frustrating things for young people, I suppose I do not get any rnmre enquiries about anything that I do about this MED programme. People are frustrated. They cannot get into the programme. So can the minister indicate which agency does the screening and what criteria are used in the selection? 3964

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1850 ah-1 MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR.DINN: Mr. Speaker, that is a very, very good question. I was asked a similar question yesterday and at that point in time I did not have the accurate,up-to-date figures. The MED course has been expanded about four times since its inception. We started off withthe course way back when it was used for fishermen who trained in lifesaving, firefighting, rescue and survival first aid, that kind of thing. We had about one course a year for about twelve people.

Of course, in 1979 with our regulations for offshore, there was quite a demand for the course and that demand keeps rising. Basically the way that the courses run is right now we have about 108 students each week who go into the three week course. It is broken down into 33 per cent of these students are selected through Canada Manpower,or CEIC,in the Canada Manpower offices.

The problem with that is that a lot of times people are selected for the courses and do not have a job to go to,so some of these are basically 1 in a sense,wasted and it is frustrating for people who, first of all, try to get the course, then get the course, and then they do not have a job to go to. The other 22 per cent is basically done through the provincial government and most of these people are fisheries people who, over the years required this course. So the remaining group, 45 per cent, are paid by the companies.

In other words, they have jobs which people can go directly in the offshore or the supplyvessels or what have you 1 and they train their own people. You might have a crew out there now that is not completely trained 1 for example, and 3965

May 6,1983 Tape No . 1850 ah-2 MR.DINN: when they come in for their twenty-one days ~f£ period, or one month off period, they go in on the course. It isarranged by the company . So 45 per cent is arranged by the company and 33 per cent is arranged through CEIC and 22 per cent by the Newfoundland government . MR.SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! The time for Question Period has expired. 3966

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1851 MJ - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Yesterday in the point of order raised by the han. the Minister of Social Services (Mr. Hickey) there was some question as to the remarks he made when he raised it. The Minister of Social Services was supposed to have said that the han. the member for Eagle River U1r. Hiscock) was not telling the truth. On reveiwing Hansard I see that these words are not there so it was a difference of opinion not a point of order, Although the han. the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) questioned it 1 I find no unparliamentary language used in the statement.

NOTICES OF MOTION DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that this House resolve inself into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions related to the guaranteeing of certain loans under th .e "Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957",and I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that this House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions related to the advancing or guaranteeing of certain loans made under the "Loan and Guarantee Act, 1957".

ANSWERS TO QUE STI ONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. DINN: MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower . !1R. DINN: Mr. Speaker. The han. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, just to give the hon. the Leader of the Opposition a complete answer to a question he asked yesterday in the House- he asked, 'How many people went through the MED course from 1978 - MR. NEARY: How many were on the waiting list is what I wanted. MR. DINN: Well, I will give you that also. -from 1978 to 1983 it was 2,417, and so far this year 1 up to April,we have had 1,039 and on the 3967

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1851 MJ - 2 MR. DINN: waiting list there is approximately - because you have to check all the canada Manpower centres throughout the Island - there is approximately 1,500 on the waiting list. ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. MARSHAL.L: Perhaps we will do a few first readings before we go to the Budget Debate. Motion 5. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) to introduce a bill, "An Act To Provide For The Portability Of Pensionable Service Between Certain Pension Plans Guaranteed By The Province," carried. {Bill No. 39 ) . 3968

May 6, 1983 Tape 1852 PK - 1 On motion, Bill No. 39, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the hon . Minister of Finan ce to introduce a bill, !'An Act Respecting An Increase Of certai:1 Pensions", carried. (Bi ll No. 35). On motion, Bill No. 35, read a first time, orat:!.:ed read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. Minister of Finance to introduce a bill , "An Act Respecting An Increase Of Certain . . .. - Pensions For Transferred Employees'', carried. (Bill No. 36) . On motion, Bill No . 36, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow . Motion, the hon.

Minister of Finance to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Uniformed Services Pensions Act", carried. (Bill No. 41). On motion, Bill No. 41, read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow . Motion, the hon. Minister of .;ustice to introduce a ~ill , "An Act To Amend The Attachment Of Wages Act", carried. (Bill No. 40). On motion, Bill No . 40, read a first time, ordered read a second time on ton~row. Motion, the bon. Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Judicatrue A.ct" , carried . (Bill No. 431 .

On motion, Bill No. 43, read a first time, ordered read a second tim e on tomorrow . 3969

C! May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1853 NM- 1 Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Liquor Corporation Act, 1973," carried. (Bill No. 4 7) On motion, Bill No. (471 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Insurance Companies Tax Act And the Insurance Premiums Tax Act, 1978," carried. (Bill No. 46) On motion, Bill No. t46) read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. MR. MARSHALL: Motion 1, Budget Debate. MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward): Motion 1, When the House last adjourned I believe the hon. Leader of ;the Opposition (Mr. Neary) adjourned the debate. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, first of all let me say that this is day seven, I believe, in the Budget Debate and so far I am the only member who has participated in the debate. I am exercising my right and my privilege under the rules of this House to take as much time as I want to speak in the Budget Debate. · As I indicated yesterday it is not a filibuster.

I hope to be able to bring my few remarks to an end before the present sitting of the House ends today. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I started my few remarks on unemployment. Hon. members will recall yesterday I reviewed the figures on unemployment in this Province and I ended up late yesterday evening,before the House closed, accusing the Premier of hlle Province of not having a social conscience. The hon. gentleman may be a well-meaning fellow, Mr. Speaker, he is an expert at playing 3970

May 5, 1983 Tape No. 1854 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: childish, political games. He is trying to portray the image of a fighter, but the real problem with the hon. gentleman is that he is unable to administer the affairs of this Province and he has no Ec=~~! ::~3cience. Now, why do I say that the hon. gentleman has no social conscience, Mr. Speaker? Well, all we have to do is look at the record unemployment that we have in this Province. We have the worst unemployment in Newfoundland and Labrador since the great depression.

Now, has the hon. gentleman who heads the administration brought plans into this House to deal with that problem, which is the number- one problem in this Province and in this Nation? Has the hon. gentleman produced plans, brought in plans in the Budget Speech or in the Throne Speech, or brought in p1ans period to deal with this very, very serious problem, the worst problem we have in this Province? It is the worst problem. It is a matter that should be given'top priority by the administration. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I ask hon. gentlemen on the benches there opposite to just reflect back over the thirty-six or thirty-seven days that this House has sat so far and ask themselves one question, 'Where are the plans, are there any plans to deal with high unemployment in this Province, especially record unemployment among young people.'? MR. DINN: Sit down and we will tell you. MR. NEARY: Sit down and they will tell me?

They have had thrity-six or thirty-seven days to tell the people of this Province, to tell the construction workers, to tell the people who live in Labrador West, to tell the people in Buchans, to tell the people in the fishery, to tell the office workers who are unemployed, the white collar 3971

May 5, 1983 Tape NO. 1854 JV- 2 MR. NEARY: workers who are une .mployed. Sit down,the hon . minister of Manpower (Mr. Dinn) says and they will tell me. They have had thirty-six or thirty -seven days to tell this Bouse . They have not produced anything that resembles a plan . to deal with the economy or to deal with record unemployment. Mr. Speaker, we can only assume that the government have no plans to deal with this problem, they have no plans. If they did have a plan, would they not have spelled it out in the Throne Speech or in the Budget Speech? Would they not have told the House about it in the thirty-six or thirty-seven days that this House has met so far 3972

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1855 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: They have no plans to deal with anything, Mr. Speaker. Therein lies the problem. Now we can only assume that there are no plans and that they are unwilling or unable to produce plans. We hear that the hon. the Premier - and this may be .l._:.:.c.. ~z~~G~ ~-~ it - ~~ ...... - ..... .a... the hon. gentleman is not going to run any more. Rumours are rampant that the hon. gentleman may resign before the end of this year.

We hear of dissension in the Cabinet, we know there is dissension in the backbenches, we know that, we have evidence of that, testimony to that from the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) who has challenged the policy of his Party on more than one occasion, and now we hear snarky remarks being made by backbenchers on the government side that the Premier will not tolerate this very much longer, that the member for Mount Scio will get the flick. I do not think that is going to happen, Mr. Speaker, at least I hope it does not.

But we hear backbenchers on the government side; when they are outside the House, making snarky remarks about the member for Mount Scio for standing up for what he thinks is right, for standing up for his principles, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Mount Scio is only, I would say, a symptom of what is going on in that caucus. Now the hon. the Premier, Mr. Speaker, has not denied that he is only going to be a two-term Premier.

As a matter of fact, he has admitted publicly that people should only stay on as Premier of this Province for two terms,that a man or woman should only head an administration for two terms and then quit. Well,the hon. gentleman is now into his second te~ and the hon. gentleman may be thinking about quitting, retiring from public life. Rumours are rampant that the hon. gentleman may do it before the next election, may do it as early as this year. 3973

....__ May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1855 so - 2 MR. DINN: That is only wishful thinking. MR. NEARY: ' No, Mr. Speaker, that is not wishful thinking on our part. Confidence in the administration has been shattered, the Premier's own image has been battered and bruised in the last several months. The hon... gentleman, I suppose, could be called the rapier, he has fallen on his own sword. The hon. gentleman is unable to deliver, no doubt he is frustrated and confused and bewildered,and the hon. gentleman does not know what to do except to lay back and hope that things will blow over, 3 9 71+

May 6, 1983 Tape 1856 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: hope that there will be an upturn in the economy of Canada and a little bit of it may spread over into Newfoundland and Labrador - like we saw the other day, the hen. gentleman trying to take credit for the upturn in the ~teel industry,when the hen . gentleman announced that the Wabush mine would have less down time this year than was planned. Now, the hen. gentleman may try to ride it out, to weather the storm, Mr. Speaker, ride it out until there is an upturn in the economy in the United States or in Canada ,as a result of the Liberal policies in Ottawa.

The hen. gentleman may try to weather the storm, ride it out, Mr. Speaker, and hope that he will be allowed to go in peace at the end of this year or before the next election, whenever he chooses to retire. It is not a matter of keeping us on our toes. We could not care less what the hen. gentleman does. He is a Premier on the run anyway, his administration is on the run, Mr. Speaker. So what I am sayin.g to the hen. gentleman is that confidence in the administration is non-existent at the present time. People have lost hope - people who are unemployed, young people who cannot find jobs. Mr.

Speaker, we are swamped in our office with requests from people looking for jobs. The situation has never been as bad since the Great Depression as it is in this Province at the pre;:;ent. ti _me. Now, Mr. Speaker, is it going to get any better? I have been arguing for some time that ,as the experts say, even wh.en the economy bottoms out 3975

May 6, 1983 Tape 1857 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: we are still going to have high unemployment. Even.if prosperity does ever come again, we will have record unemployment in the midst of that prosperity. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us take a look at the situation in Newfoundland according to APEC, the Atlantic Provinces Econo~ic Council,in their April report. Let us see what they said about various projects in Newfoundland that the Premier has been telling us that will be the end all and be all of the Newfoundland economy once they come on stream.

Now APEC have placed the various projects in different categories, and they have given them a high,medium or low rating. Now,let us look at the mega projects in Newfoundland. PREMIER PECKFORD: That is filled with all kinds of inaccuracies. MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman will have a chance to reply and he will be able to straighten out APEC. Now he is disagreeing with APEC. PREMIER PECKFORD: Thank you. MR. NEARY: Disagreeing with everybody. We expect that, Mr, Speaker. We have learned to live with that.

The.hon. gentleman no doubt now will be out on the television and radio ranting and raving and telling the experts,the APEC people,that they do not know what they are talking about, Mr. Speaker. We expect that of the hon. gentleman. But let us see what they say about the projects in Newfoundland. The projects are listed and they have the starting date and the date they expect to end and the probability of these projects 9oing ahead this year, Now, Mr. Speaker,let us see; these are major projects in Atlantic Canada. Well,the aluminium smelter·for Labrador~ Let us ~mt that one to rest right off the bat.

The aluminium smelter, not only for Newfoundland,! suppose, but for Labrador. 3976

May 6, 1983 Tape 1857 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: Well,the Atlantic Provinces Economic Development Council gives that very low priority, low priorit y. 'To use Churchill Power a decision to bui ld a smelter in Quebec will effect decisions to develop, feasibility study almost complete . Low probability. Very low probability. MR. WINDSOR: We will see . MR. NEARY: And the hon . Minister of Development UMr. Windsor) says, 'We will see' , and he laughs at it . Very low probability. Now what about the Bowater Newfoundland nodernization in Corner Brook, Mr. Speaker, involving $120 million that they started a year or so ago before they announced the shut down of No. 7 pape .r macThine? What about that? 3977

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1858 ah-1 1!1R. NEARY : Well,that has very low probability. 'Closure of paper making plant in 1982 makes . progress doubtful.' Another one gone, Mr.Speaker. Now let us see about the offshore development on the Grand Banks. And this is what bon. gentlemen have been hanging their hats on for years. They put all their eggs in one basket,in the offshore oil basket and that basket is quite leaky at the present time. DR. COLLINS: MR. NEARY: That is a mixed metaphor. It is a mixed metaphor the hon. gentleman says and that is right. They put all their hopes in aleaky offshore oil basket, Mr.

Speaker, and now they sit over there, they sit in their offices not knowing what is going on offshore. They seem to be greatly relieved since the Newfoundland courts decided the ownership question. They threw it over to the court, they gambled and they lost and they seem greatly relieved because now they do not have to do anything. They do not have to do anything except blame others, blame things on others, Mr.Speaker. Now,remember eleven years ago when the Tories carne to power in this Province and we have had two Premiers under a Tory administration. Hon. gentlemen should not have to be reminded.

I am not going to waste the time of the ~ouse going back over the history of offshore. I only have to deal with one or two items in that regard. Let us go back eleven years, turn back the hands, turn back the clock, Mr. Speaker, to eleven years ago, January 18,1972 when the Tories took oven in this Province. What were we told about offshore resources? We were told by this administration that they would not talk or deal with anybody on the offshore because they owned it, because Newfoundland owned it. The member for Baie Verte-White Bay (Mr. Rideout) felt so 3978

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1858 ah-2 MR.NEARY: strongly about that that he deserted the Liberal party and went scooting across the House, because the Liberal Opposition,of which the han. gentleman was a member,had taken the position that there should be an negotiated agreement on the offshore. The member for Baie Verte-White Bay (I:tr. Rideout) felt the Opposition was being weak and because we did not advocate ownership the han. gentleman went scooting across the House like a little weasel. And now he is sitting over with an administration that has forgotten all about ownership altogether.

They have shifted their ground~ so compl~t~ly, Mr. Speaker, that we cannot keep up to them. MR. HODDER: He had better not try to come back. MR.NEARY: They have shifted their grounds. Remember,now, first they spent millions of taxpayer's dollars even though they had a report in their files that was done by the Dean of Law of a Western university, a man who was regarded as a top constitutional expert in Canada, 3979

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1859 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: They had that report and they knew what the findings of that gentleman were but they wanted to bluff, they decided that they would bluff, gamble, and they kept bluffing until they were boxed into a corner and then like cowards , they threw it over to the court.

They took the offshore resource, they brought it and they gave it to the Newfoundland Appeals Court and they said, here it is, three Newfoundlanded judges, you decide who owns it, after telling the people of this Province in three successful elections - that they owned it that nobody was going to dare to intrude in their jurisdiction, they owned it; . · t:!he member for Baie Verte (Mr. Rideout) scooting across the House because he was brainwashed --obviously he was conned -~ - ·-- by the rhetoric, the political rhetoric of the day - and gave up'his principles and deserted his party.

I do not suppose you .::auld do anything worse in political life, Mr. Speaker, than knife your colleagues in the back and ~esert your principles and your party. Is there anything lower that you could do apart from, I suppose, insult - MR. RIDEOUT: One other thing and that would be to stay on, with somebody like you as Leader. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the only other thing that you could do that could be considered to be so low, I suppose, would be to insult a member's mother here in the House, as the Governme t H . n £Use Lead~r (Mr. Marshall) sitting over there di d when he was over here.

That is about the only lower thing you could do, I suppose, and that happened in this House 1 by the han. sanctimonious Government House Leader. 3980

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1859 JV - 2 MR . NEARY : The next lowest thing I would say that you could do would be to desert your party, to forego your principles in anticipation of favours in t)"ll" 1"11+-ura Mr <;pea ker. DR . COLLINS: How about a party deserting a Province , how would th .at be? MR . NEARY: Yes, we have a party over there now, the bon. gentleman is right, we have a pa .rty which has deserted 150 -odd thousand Newfoundlanders who sa id yes, we will give you a mandate to negotiate an offshore agreement, negotiate . Not put it to th~ court, that is not what the Newfoundland people said . r.m .

SIMMS: We had an agreement . MR . NEARY : Mr. Speak er, the hon. gentleman said 'we had an agreement', the hon . gentleman is so naive and so wishy -washy and so weak that the hon. ge ntleman could be convin ced to believe anything. MR . SIMMS: That is the only comeback you have. Attack somebody personally. You have no comeback otherwise , have you? MR. NEARY : Mr. Speaker, the hon . gentleman is so naive, so naive that I really think he believes what be says. We bad an agreement the hon . gentleman said, we had an agreement . 398 1

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1860 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there was an agreement back in January thanks to Mr. Chretien. The han. gentlemen would not accept it. It was a very generous: agreement. The han. gentlemen would not accept it and they - while the Minister respon.:.i.ble for Ei>ergy in this .l:".t'uvince tMr. Marshall) was negotiating with Mr. Chretien the Premier and one of his· senior advisers were across the street in another hotel with a pair of binoculars watching what was going on, watching the minister from this Province. You talk about trust and good will, Mr. Speaker. MR .

RIDEOUT: What an imagination. MR. NEARY: You talk about imagination. And the Premier pulled the carpet out from under the feet of his minister. That agreement would have been a very, very generous agreement by the way. And, Mr. Speaker, do we now MR. HODDER: They were afraid they were going to overheat the economy, was it not? MR. NEARY: That is right. They were making statements like, "We only want eight oil rigs out there because we are afraid we might overheat the Newfoundland economy." What silly nonsense, Mr. Speaker.

What foolish statements from the lips of the head of the administration who had told th.e people that we were going to have a negotiated settlement. But anyway I am not going to go over the history of the offshore, I wish. I could, I will leave that to some of my other colleagues, Mr. Speaker. But I merely want to remind han. gentlemen that it was this administration that took the offshore and gave it to the Newfoundland Appeals Court and they said, "Here, you decide who owns it," after 3952

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1860 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: telling us for ten or eleven years that Newfoundland owned it. DR. COLLINS: not? Do you think we do MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we have always contended that we owned it but the trouble is that you could never prove- how could you prove you owned it"? That was the problem. And so this governrnen~, this administration, the Tories, put the matter oefore the courts and they seemed to be relieved after the court handed down its decision. So they can go on playing their federal politics, they can go on with the federal election campaign. Mr.

Speaker, is it any wonder that the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) is so disgruntled and so disillusioned and is complaining publicly about the policy of his own party? Is it any wonder? Is it any wonder we hear reports of dissidence in the Cabinet and in the backbenches? The hon. member for Mount Scio is not the only one. There are others over there who are pretty worried and pretty angry with the Premier for the way he has handled.not only the offshore but other major matters concerning the future of this Province and the development of this Province. Now, Mr.

Speaker, they are trying to get the House closed before the Supreme Court of Canada 3963

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1861 MJ-1 MR. NEARY: hands down its decision on the offshore. One of the reasons I would suspect that they are trying to get the House closed, among others of course - they cannot cope, they cannot stand criticisms-, they have no plans to deal with the major problems we have in this Province - I would suspect they want to get out of here before the Supreme Court of Canada endorses what the Newfoundland Appeal Court decided. MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: MR. SIMMS: MR. NEARY: end of May, it is due. .. - MR. RIDEOUT: MR. NEARY: When is that? That should be some time this month. Before the end of May?

Well, it could be before the When the Supreme Court of Canada - How do you know when it is due? Pardon? MR. RIDEOUT: m.he Water Reversion Act was referred a year ago, that is not even down yet. MR. NEARY: the courts operate. MR. RIDEOUT: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have no idea how That is right. It is pure speculation on my part. I would think that the Water Reversio n Act might be a little more complicated. DR. COLLINS: MR. NEARY: Then why pick on the courts? The offshore, I would say, is a little more clear-cut than the Water Reversion Act and the han. gentleman, like myself, is not a lawyer. Mr.

SpeaJ<.e:t:', anyway, I am saying t.h.~t, -;rtla.:r~e. pe:fo:r;;e the end, of this month you will haye a, ;r:ru,l,ing f;;oom t,he S·U.;E?Peme Cou,rt of Canad,a which will upho;Ld t,h,e ;t;'u;l,in~ <i1f t,he Newfou,nd;I,apd, fl.ppea!l, Cou,rt, put in the mea,pt.iJI\er Mr, Spea,ke;t', what worries me, what concerns NeW'fOU.n<l.landers, the Boa:r;d of Trad,e, the Newfoundland a,nd :r.a~;!;'ad,q,;z; :Federat:Lon of La.bou,r 1 the. offshore petroleum organizations, 3984

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1861 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: what worries everybody in this Province is that since the Newfoundland Appeal Court decision there has been no dialogue, no commun .ications, no input from this Province on the o£fshore resources . None . They sit c.·,.:.: :..:...:=e day ::...~ ~..: :..:.y out like dummies , zombies not knowing what is going on with this great resource lying off our shore,because they have no agreement, nobody will talk to them, they have been rude and insulting to everybody in sight, the oil companies, the Government of Canada, Quebec, Nova Scotia . Andthat is frightening, Mr.

Speaker, wnen you thi nk about it . Just think about it , Your Honour. This great resource , the development, the exploration going ahead, the wells being drilled and pretty soon production plans will be put in place and 39 85

~ay 6f 1983 Ta,pe 1862 EC ,.., 1 ~, NEA'RY; th,is Province has no input, no communication, no dialogue. Does that concern Your Hona~r? And the Premie~ sits over there and says, 'Oh, we are not going to give anything away.' Mr. Speaker, the court already decided on the ownership. DR. COLLINS: That is not true. - ~-- .... ... . . .. MR. NEARY: That is true. And they pro- ceeding the __ same as eleven years ago, they are proceeding on the same policy that fa,iled, one failure after another up to now. MR. SIMMS: You want us to sell out. MR. NEARY: Sell out, Mr. Speaker! Is that what the hon. gentleman thinks? MR.

SIMHS: That is what you want. MR. NEARY: MR. SIMHS: MR. NEARY: That is what I want? Yes. Mr. Speaker, I, like every other Newfoundlander, want an agreement. It is the administration that has sold out. MR. SIMMS: We had an agreement. MR. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: Talk to your buddy, Chretien. Get him to come through on his agreement. That is the answer to it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it is the hon. gentleman's leader who sold out when he took the matter and gave it to the Newfoundland court. There was the sell-out. MR. SIMMS: We had no choice. MR. NEARY: Now, Mr.

Speaker, the ball game is changed completely. Now what we have to get is an agreement. We have to get the best agreement we can for Newfoundland. And that is going to be very difficult now under the circumstances. The Newfoundland Supreme Court decided in favour of Canada, if the Supreme Court of Canada 39B6

May 6, 1983 Tape 1862 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: decides in favour of Canada, it is going to be very difficult, is it not, Mr. Speaker? They can sit back and sulk all they want. They can be stubborn and stupid and they can say, 'Well, we will retaliate by throwing obstruction in the way of development onshore, because onshore comes under the provincial government,' or they can threaten to arrest rigs or they can say, 'Well, we own the jurisdiction inside the three mile limit.'' They can say all that, they can throw obstruction in the way, they can make it difficult. Will that accomplish anything, Mr. Speaker? Will it?

Will it create any good will? Will it be good for Newfoundland, their obstruction tactics, their playing federal politics, hoping that the Government of Canada will change, gambling again, Mr. Speaker? The provincial Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is going around telling everybody that if Mr. Crosbie gets elected Leader of the Liberal Party - Tory Party - he was a Liberal when h.e started; that if Mr. Crosbie gets elected, the Minister of Fisheries is going to quit provincial politics and run federally, M:r. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is sad, it is very, vecy sad the j,mpasse, the state 3907

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1863 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: that we have reached in the offshore which was supposed to be the saviour of Newfoundland, our last opportunity. I remember the Premier making statements like 'have not will be no more, we will have our day in the sun'. And now they are sitting over there like zombies.

In the meantime, the federal government have moved in COGLA, they have rented space down in Atlantic Place, 5,000 squ~re feet, COGLA, which hon. gentlemen know is the federal equivalent of the Petroleum Directorate and they are going ahead, and thank God somebody has sense enough to go ahead,with the development. We hear via the grapevine that there may be twelve or fourteen rigs on the Grand Banks this Summer in spite of the tactics of the han. gentleman. Mr.

Chretien says that he is only interested in creating jobs and business for Newfoundland, that they are going ahead full speed with the development while this administration just lie back on their oars. And as I have said so often in this House, Mr. Speaker, they may as well have been down with Senator Kennedy last night in Boston watching a hockey game. They cannot participate in the game, they cannot participate in th .e development.

They are . just there like spectators at a hockey game, like the good senator last night, watching the plays going back and forth, they cannot participate, they can only be spectators. It is sad, Mr. Speaker, it is sad when you think that 150,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians put blind faith in the Premier and in this administration and gave them such an overwhelming mandate over a year ago to negotiate an agreement on the offshore and now· they cannot deliver. We will eventually get an agreement, I have no doubt about that. There will be an agreement eventually. DR. COLLINS: And a good one too. 3988

May 6, 1983 Tape No . 1863 so - 2 MR. NEARY: 'A good one', the hon. gentleman said . The hon . gentleman now will be lucky to get the Nova Scotia type of agreement . DR . COLLINS: Not another Churchill Falls type ~:-~~~Q~t but a really good one . MR. NEARY: Mr . Speaker, they had it in their hands and they blew it, one failure after another. Now let us see what APEC says about this project 1 this offshore that was supposed to be the saviour of Newfoundland, we were all going to have two cars and a boat and a trailer parked outside our doors. We were all going to be rich from oil. Offshore development Grand Banks, 1985 to 1990, Mr. Speaker, listen to this ; 'The probability only medium', 3989

May 6, 1983 Tape 1864 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: medium probability, that between 1985 and 1990 this project will go, centered on Hibernia reserves. Allneed access to Southern markets under terms favourable to various people. A medium probability. Now, Mr. Speaker, what about the Gull Island project in Labrador, what about the Lower Churchill that started ~ack in 1974? Now remember, Mr.

Speaker, we are not talking about oil now, we are talking about a hydro project that was started at tremendous expense to the taxpayer - $300 million or $400 million borrowed to set off explosions on either side of the Strait of Belle Isle prior to the 1975 election. DR. COLLINS: There is a smidgen of exaggeration there. MR. NEARY: Where is the exaggeration? I challenge the hen. gentleman to tell me, where is the exaggeration? There is a hole down in St. Barbe in the ground and a hole across the Straits over on the Labrador side, Mr.

Speaker, to prov~ that these explosions - well 1you do not have to prove it because the money was spent on it. The tunnel underneath the Strait of Belle Isle, the commencement of the Lower Churchill has cost the taxpayers of this Province, I would say,right up to the present time,about a half billion dollars, about $500,000 million. The money had to be borrowed at high interest rates for the last eight years~ Mr. Speaker, you are talking about, I would say, $400 million or $500 : million of taxpayer money. Is it any wonder that electricity rates go up in this Province< Now, Mr.

Speaker, remember that project was started, that project was officially started, 3990

May 6, 1983 Tape 1864 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: a former Eremier went down, set off the explosion and shortly after the election the project was cancelled. Now, ~orhat does the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council say about that? Gull Isiand, Mus .krat Falls, Hydro Labrador, the probability to get that starten.medillll\. We "11 thought it was finished. we thought it was started in 1974, eight years ago. Eight years later after spending, squandering, wasting taxpayer money, eight years later we hear that the project is not completed, and the p~ty, of it starting is only medium. 3981

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1865 MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: The Upper Churchill Hydro expansion,· ,medium; Hydro transmission lines, medium. Listen to this one, Mr. Speaker - offshore Labrador development, the probability is low,cost will be much higher than $1 billion; Lake Micheal Hydro, low; Dry Pond Hydro, low; the Lavalin Building, St. John's, low; Southside Hills and Storage Cavern, St. Johm's, low. So, Mr.

Speaker, according to the Atlantic Provinces Economic Development Council the outlook for megaprojects in this Province to create large numbers of jobs is very low indeed -it goes from medium to low. so the outlook for the people who are unemployed, Mr. Speaker, is very, very bleak indeed. And in additi;on to that we are told that once the economy bottoms out and if prosperity is ever restored, ever returned, that we are going to have large numbers of people who will be unemployed right in the middle of that prosperity. Now, Mr.

Speaker, my colleagues and I have taken the position and we have been espousing and promoting our position on the offshore, the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) has been doing likewise. Now he .has called for the administration to forget the political slingshoting and get back to the bargaining table. This wiLl have to be done, Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, somewhere along the Line, We need that agreement, our economy needs that agreement, the fishing industry needs that agreement and the economy,as I say, in general needs the agreement. 3992

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1866 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: There are over 50 , 0 0 0 Newfoundlande.rs looking for work at the present time. That is quite a lot, Mr. Speaker. That is a lot of pain and anguish. And do not forget, Mr. Speaker, that 50 per cent of the 50,000 or so Newfoundlanders who are unemployed are between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five, young Newfoundlanders and Labradorians unemployed at a time of their lives when they should be working and making careers for themselves. Mr.

Speaker, I would say that we have two big problems in this Province - I do not know which category I would like to fall in -loneliness­ and unemployment. I think I would rather be unemployed than to be lonely. Two great curses, one is the result of the other 1 lonely and longing for action and hoping for action. Loneliness, Mr. Speaker, as psychiatrists will tell you, is one of the greatest illnesses, greatest curses of our society -loneliness. People are lonely for a friend, th.ey are lonely for some form of; indication from this administration that there is hope on the horizon, There is no hope.

One goes with the other, Mr. Speaker. The experts are now saying that there will always· he a significant sector of our population chronically unemployab.l.e. unless something is done to h.elp them. Th.at statement,. Mr. Speaker, is depressing when you look at. it_ closely, because it means that even when the recession e.nds and we find ourselves amid relative prosperity, there will be a large sector of the economy that will be unemployed. Mr. Speaker, this is the greatest ailiiJent, as I indicated, of our people.

This is the o.ne thi.ng that will ravage the human spirit and devastate th_e_ hearts: and souls: of Newfoundlanders, Mr. Speak_er. 3993

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1867 NM- 1 MR. NEARY: Men and women who cannot support themselves in even the most basic of ways, Mr. Speaker, become easily depressed and demoralized. Because they cannot generate salaries and incomes, they cannot feed themselves and their families i' they cannot clothe themselves 1 they cannot feed their loved ones and their dependents. They cannot stay alive on their own because in our society there is no place for them and their skills. Mr. Speaker, these people live or endure a living death and consequently experience the erosion of their individual spirit_ To put it more bluntly, Mr.

Speaker, the hearts are taken out of these Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. And sometimes,perhaps,some of them may even lose the will to live. Mr. Speaker, I suggest, with all the sincerity and vigor that I have in my veins,that it is the most primary and holy duty of this administration to offer some hope to these people who are unemployed in this Province, to bring into their dreams and into their minds some hope and some light. It is our duty and it is the duty of the administration to put an end to this curse, this cancer, this unemployment, especially among young people. It is more important, Mr.

Speaker, to deal with that problem than it is to fight inflation,in my humble opinion. And I have on more than one occasion, inside of this House and outside of this House, made the suggestion that we work together to try and cope with this problem, that we put aside the slings and arrows, Mr. Speaker, and we take on this great battle that is confronting this Province. Mr. Speaker, an awful lot of these people that I am speaking about today,and I could relate many personal stories that have been brought to my attention, Mr. Speaker, are beginning to feel inferior.

The unemployment has crept into the middle-class people, people are being laid 3994

May 6, 19.83 Tape No. 1867 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: off and unemployedwho have never been unemployed before in their lives. And they are getting the 3995

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1868 ah-1 MR. NEARY: feeling that the country, the Province is against them and that they are inferior in our society. I do not think this is an exaggeration, Mr. Speaker. Probably hon. members there opposite are gett~ng the same stories. There is already a widespread distaste within the working class for many of the unemployed who have been forced onto the roles ofsocial assistance. These unemployed - a lot of people on welfare have been labled as being too lazy or too stupid to· work. I am sure that all hon. members , Mr.

Speaker, have heard these slanderous phrases, 'Look at that fellow, too lazy to get off his butt .and go look for work,' or, 'them welfare people, all .,they are interested in is getting their dole to buy a bottle on a Friday night.' Mr. Speaker, that is a bigotry of another kind and it just is not rational. Hating a man or a woman because he is on welfare, Mr. Speaker, is no different than hating a person because of the colour of his skin. This must end. There are people who will say, well ,our high unemployment rate in Newfoundland is there because people are toolazy to work when in actual fact, Mr.

Speaker, that is not true. Mr. Speaker, if we accept the premise of the experts,and we accept the fact that chronic unemployment will be with us even when the economy bottoms out,then I would suggest in the best interest of this Province and of our country as a whole that we take a different approach, that we stop burying our heads in the sand, Mr. Speaker. And I would suggest that in the interests of this Province and of this nation that we could better serve our people by 3996

May 6,1983 Tape No. 1868 ah -2 MR . NEARY: establishing new techniques and new ways to deal with this problem • I have suggested on a number of occasions, both inside and outside this House, that one of the ways to approach the chronic unemployment problem is to es~abli~h some f~~ 0~ federal/provincial organization, Crown corporation, for the lack of a better word,to carry out individual major projects in various parts of this Province and hire from the ranks of the jobless workers for specific lengths of time . Not only , Mr .

Speakei, would this result in a much better type of project as compared with the present make work projects, the phony make shift projects ,but it could insu .re that both the managers and workers on such projects were properly selected instead of , as often happens now, being the prerequisites of lobby~sts. 3987

May 6, 1983 Tape 1869 EC 1 MR, NEARY: So, Mr. Speaker, the first thing we have to do is accept the fact that because of technological change, in many cases employers have now discovered that they do not need as many people on their payroll. Having been forced to lay off employees, the employers have now discovered, Mr. Speaker, that they do not need to take a lot of these employees back on, and my words, Mr. Speaker, were confirmed in an

article :i,n· The Globe and Mail on May 4, just a couple of days ago, when I' read an

article which said that between one million and two million jobs in Canada will disappear by 1991 because of technological and structural changes in the economy, according to a confidential federal study that was done. The study done for the Economic Development Minister, Donald Johnston,predicts that between one-quarter and one-half of all jobs in manufacturing and one-quarter of the jobs in business and financial services will be eliminited by the end of the decade. So you can see, Mr.

Speaker, that I am not the only one who feels that by the year 2000, 30 per cent or 35 per cent or 40 per cent of our people will be unemployed, the result primarily of advancing automation and technological change. And what I am saying, Mr.Speaker, is that we must face up to that fact. We are already far, far into the second industrial revolution, and the govern­ ment has a responsibility to cope. Now, Mr. Speaker, the types of projects that I am talking about have to meet a very important criteria.

They have to have a useful economic purpose, perhaps serving in the long-term for future development of this Province, and as a consequence, create more jobs and more jobs, spinoff jobs from these projects. 3988

May 6, 1983 Tape 1869 EC - 2 MR. NEARY : Mr . Speaker, for instance, hon . members have heard me on a numbe .r of occasions talking about a Trans -Labrador highway, a tunnel under­ neath the Strait of Belle Isle to link the Island of Newfoundland with the mainland part of the Province, Labrador, which would open up the rich Labrador interior and coast to development and, as well, open up the region, Mr . Speaker, to valid spinoff development from offshore oil and gas . There is then, Mr .

Speaker, the matter of the immediate development of the Lower Churc~ill River and the other rivers with headwaters in Labrador flowing into Quebec. This nevelopment - and this offer has been made by the Province of Quebec who want to enter into a package deal , joint ventures or otherwise, w~th this Province - this development, Mr .Speaker, would create thousands of jobs now and result in more jobs when the energy becomes available for new industries. 39 99

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1870 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, this is the only way, in my opinion, that we can improve the present situation for the people who are unemployed in this Province and get her rolling again. I no longer believe, Mr. Speaker, that private enterprise will provide the jobs although private enterprise has a job to do. Mr. Speaker, I think the mechanism should be put in place through joint ventures, provincial/federal ventures, either through a federal Crown corporation or some other agency. T.he mechanism should be put in place at once, Mr.

Speaker, to try to deal with this situation, this terrible cancer in the long term. So, Mr. Speaker, I say to the administration instead of trying to close up the House of Assembly let us get our heads together. I have thrown out now what I consider to be a very positive approach to the number one problem in this Province - high unemployment. I have thrown out a few ideas. I have not yet heard any ideas from the administration or any plans of how they intend to deal with this situation, Mr. Speaker.

So what I say is let us get together, do not close the House 1 on the idea that I just threw out and some other ideas, and let us examine them and let us see if they are worth- while, Mr. Speaker, in the best interest of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. ·- MR. SIMMS: What does Mr. Montgomery think of it all . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Montgomery will be leaving tonight for Great Britian , thanks to the administration who have managed to persuade the powers that be, the hierarchy of the university, not to renew his contract because the gentleman would dare to question the Premier of this Province or the Minister of Finance (pr. Collinsl. We are losing a good man, we are losing a brain, Mr. Speaker. 4000

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1870 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: So I think I have tnade by point as far as unemployment is concerned, Mr. Speaker. I could go on and I could bring up letters from my offic .e, I could talk about phone calls, meetings that I have had with people ~.,..':"_:- :::--~ :::l~~rl~yed. ::: ::..:.~::.i- do not feel that is necessary, Mr. Speaker, because I am sure that all hon. gentlemen, · the member who represents Labrado .r West, Menihek, Mr. walsh, for instanc ·e, I am sure that if he wanted to he could tell a lot of stories about the drastic situation in Labrador West, Wabush and Labrador City.

If the member for Windsor - Buchans (Ml;. McLennon) was worth his salt in this House, and we have not heard him say a word yet about the horrible situation in Buchans where a mine closed last year.- have not heard a word about it. Maybe the administration are hoping that it will just disappear and go away. The only thing we ~eard about the oil refinery in Come BY Chance, that this administration closed down, was what the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins} told us the other day. And now, Mr. Speaker, in the last twenty-four hours I have information 4001

May 6, 1983 Tape 1871 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: that confirms what I said when the han. gentleman made that statement in this House about dismantling part of the refinery, that that is the beginning of the end for that refinery. Ther.e would have been blue murder if Petro-Canada had said, 'We are .goi~g to dismantle it and take it away'. They used the han. gentleman as a messenger in this House, to come into the House and say they are only going to take away one part. They are taking away, Mr. Speaker, the most important part, and that refin~ry will be dismantled and scrapped and taken away. Mr.

Speaker, how han. gentlemen can be used, used, by Petro-Canada. Used! A Minister of Finance being used by Petro-Canada. Only a couple of years ago they told us that Petro-Canada should be scrapped, dismantled, should be disbanded. Now, Mr. Speaker, now they are allowing themselves to be used like little school boys, messen~ers, coming in to the House announcing that, Oh, they are going to take away a couple of items. a couple of parts from the oil refinery and they are going to use them in refineries elsewhere in Canada. Mr.

Speaker, they did not have the courage, Petro-Canada did not have the face to come in and start scrapping it, because there would have, been blue murder, so they used the minister to announce the news. Mr. Speaker, that the refinery will be scrapped and taken away, because all Petro-Canada ever wanted in the beginning anyway was the wharf and the storage tanks. The han. gentleman if too green to see it. DR. COLLINS: .You so not mean to tell me the federal government would let one of its agencies hurt this Province, would it? 4002

May 6, 1983 Tape 1871 PK - 2 MR . NEARY : Mr. Speaker, that is one time they used the hon . gentleman to do it. Used him . A hired gun . That is what the hon. gentleman was like, a hired gun. You often see in these movies, Mr. Speaker, where you hire someone to go out and do a job for you. The Minister of Finance, a hired gun for Petro -Canada to come in -and the hon . gentleman came in in his simplicity, took great pride in announcing this, instead of saying to Petro - Canada , Look, do not touch a nut or a bolt out of that refinery. No, he did not do that . Then they talk about giving things away.

A $500 million plant, it is probably more than that now, the replacement value of that plant, $600 million or $700 million . 4003

May 6, 19 .83 DR. COLLINs ·: MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1872 No, over that, I would say. OVer $70.0. million the NM..,. 1 han. gentleman say ·s. r Believe . it is more than that too. It is probably $800 million or $90.0 million. So they are going to take it away, scrap it, dismantle.it. Thay lay back, slouch in their seats, do nothing, do not li.f .t a finger, let her go, tear it down, close everything down, let Bowaters do what they like in Corner Brook.. The Iron Ore Company of Canada do not even tell the . ad!)lini:strati.on when they are going to lay people off. AN HON . MEMBER: (Inaudible}_ again today 1 are you?

MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, t.he hon. gentleman thinks it is funny, thinks it is very funny. Well, the people in Come By Chance and in that area do not think. it .i.s funny. And the hon. gentleman is playing with.. taxpayer money. There is close to $50 million of taxpayer money in that refi.'ne.ry and if anybody is going to scrap it, recover their money, it should be taxpayers of this Province. The hen. gentleman thinks that is very, very funny indeed. But, Mr. Speaker, that is the kind of policies that thi.s. adminis.tration have been following. r cannot think of one new mine they opened in eleven years.

I cannot think of one new industry that started in this Province in the last e·leven years under the Tory Administration, Mr. Speaker. They have not had an original idea and I am sure the media will come out and say, "Well, we heard the Leader of the Opposition say that before." Mr. Speaker, look back over twenty­ three years of Liberalism in this Province, the development of industry, the development of the fishery, the development of municipal government, the development of farming, the development of transportation. We had a very different province twenty- 4 0 0 '~

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1872 NM - 2 l-1R. NEARY: three years after a Liberal Government took over ,after Confederation. Mr . Speaker, there was no road across this Provinc e. Nine hundred communities were isolated. •rnere was no pavement worthwhile, only about 2, 000 miles of roads over which " "''>tor vehicle could manage to travel and only 100 miles of that was paved in 452 years,up to 1949. All the governments between them had spent a total of anry $36 million to bu~ld, repair and maintain roads, Mr . Speaker. Electric lights were only in one -half of the dwellings in this Province.

A total of 2,400 teachers were recei~ing an average salary of $862 a year or $16 a week , and only 100 of those teachers had university degrees. 4005

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1873 -.MJ - 1 MR. NEARY: ~~enty-three years of Liberalism, Mr. Speaker: At the time of Confederation there was only eighty-four indoor toilets out of 1,187 schools. :·;ater qnd sewerage systems only in nine of 1,300 communities. There '1-'Tere only twenty-six public libaries, six radio stations, not one school bus, only three public parks and only four modern hotels. MR. MARSHALL: Canada. MR. NEARY: from I Chose Canada. Your are reading from I Chose No, Mr, Speaker, I am not reading Mr.

Speaker, when the Liberals took over in this Province they made a determined effort to develop on every front. What have we seen in eleven years of Toryism? One failure after the other, industries shutting dmm. I am just looking for some examples of the kind of development that I am talking about - farming, .Mr, Speaker, the Liberals brought into this Province sOI!\e of the most outstanding industrialists in business and industry in the whole world. DR. COLLINS: The Liberals brought in ~otato wart too, did they not? MR. NEARY: Well, the same way as you could say the Tories brought in the spruce budworm.

The first outbreak of spruce budworm in this Province was in 1972, shortly after the Tories took over in this Province, .Mr. speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think T have dwelled long enough on unemployment, I think I have made my point. If it has not registered with hon. gentleman there is nothing I can do. There are forty-four of th€Il\ over there there are only eight of us, they can decide the issues to be debated in this House. We have no control of the agenda 4006

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1873 MJ - 2 MR. NEAR Y: for this House. WhB;teve.l:' we debate in this House is decided by hon. ~entlerneri there opposite . Now, Mr. Speaker, I know they will get up when I take my ~eat ana I can tell you what the st:rategy will be, They will attack me personally, they will attack the member for Port au .Port (Mr. Hodder) and my colleagues and the media will fall for it. The attack on us is a red herring because really, ar.

Speaker, when you. get down to it we are not in a decision 11\aking capacity, we C@ only make spe~ches and suggest and put forward positive iqeas anc;l concrete suc;rgestions for the development of our Province and of our natural resources, So, the hon. gentleman, the President of the Council (Mr. Ma:rshall) f the Government House Leader, can get up and squirt his poison and his venom and he can attack me all he wants but what will be acheived by 4007

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1874 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: that,Mr. Speaker? Maybe he will get his jollies out of it. Maybe that is his sadistic nature, he can get his jollies out of it, He gets a little quote in the press and he and his colleagues will get together and snicker as they look, see what they said about the Leader of the Opposition! Maybe their morale will come up a little bit because they attacked me, because I am going to bear the brunt of the han. gentleman's attack.

I would submit to the han. gentleman that instead of attacking the Opposition, show us your plans to deal with high unemployment, high electricity rates, the crisis in the fishery, the crisis in the mining industry, the crisis in the pulp and paper industry. The han. gentleman will say, of course,'Some of the responsibility for this is outside our jurisdiction, --we cannot help it, problems in Lab~~dor West~ Maybe they wi~l take the attitude the Premier took the other day,'There is nothing we can do about unemployment~ he said. Mr.

Speaker, if the han. gentleman wants to get his kicks and his jollies, and to satisfy his ego and his sadistic nature by attacking the Opposition - DR. COLLINS: Are you saying that you have heard his speech already? MR. NEARY: Yes, I have heard it. Mr. Speaker, I can read their minds, I can tell you what they are going to say. They are going to go back to the Smallwood years, t hey ·-are going t~ -~y, you gave everything away, you gave away this and you gave away that and you did not do this and you did not have democracy and you did not have this and that and the other thing, Mr. Speaker. 4008

May 5, 1983 Tape No. 1874 JV - 2 MR . NEA RY·: Then the hon. gentleman will turn on me and he will play politics and he will say, well, he is only an interim leader or he is going to retire or he is going to the Senate or he is going to do this v. he is going to do that~ I can hear it all now~ which will have nothing at all to do with the real issues, the real problems in this Province, I hope, Mr. Speaker, for the first time in their lives that the media will not allow the wool to be pulled over their eyes.

They cannot wait to get their little quotes down, their little darts, their little poison, little venom coming from the han. gentleman, What I would like to see them get down is~ ( Where are th~ plans to put people- back to work? Where are the plans to investigate the mismanagement and incompetence of Newfoundland Hydro that has caused ~igh electricity rates to consumers of nydro in t~is Province? Where are the plans that diversify the economy of Corner Brook, Labrador West, Buchans, Bell Island, Happy Valley/Goose Bay? Where are the pians to deal with the crisis in the Newfoundland fishery?

Where is the provincial money in the estimates to restructure the processing sector of the Newfoundland fishery? Where is the money or is it just all lip service? Is there any wonder that the Provincial Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is getting ready to bail out? I have to say this about the Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker, the stories that I have heard about the hon. gentleman's performance at the Fisheries Council of Canada would make you ashamed of your life . The minister was invited down for the opening of the Fisheries Council of Canada, you had 4009

May 6,1983 Tape 1875 ah-1 MR.NEARY: people there from all over the world 1 since it was a conference international in scope. DR. COLLINS: did he not? MR.NEARY: He got a standing ovation, That is what he did not get 1a standing ovation. He nearly got the boot. MR. BAIRD: Where? MR.NEARY: This was an international conference and the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan) was invited for the opening. Now what did he say at the opening of that great international conference?

People from all over the world, influential people in - -~··-- --.. the processing and harvesting of fish from all over the world, and the Minister of Fisheries for this Province went down and condemned the NewfounQland fishery, criticized the quality of the Newfoundland fish, questioned the management of the plants in this Province and told how the plants were on the brink of bankruptcy, nailed Fishery Products - MR.MORGAN: Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR.MORGAN: A point of order, Mr. A point of order. The The hon. gentleman is now reverting to his same old tactics.

Since he cannot draw attention by making truthful statements in debate,he is not making deliberate untruths in his debate. The hen. gentleman should know that what I had to say to the conference at the Holiday Inn of approximately 500-and-something delegates from around the world was dovered on the front page of both print media in 4010

May 6,1983 Tape 1875 ah-2 MR.MORGAN: St. John's, None of what he is saying now was included in the text of my statements or made anywhere near the conference of the Fisheries Council of Canada. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): To that point of order. The ho.n. Leader of the Opposition to that point of order. MR.NEARY: order, Mr. Speaker. MR.MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER: That is not a point of Tell the truth. To that point of order, it is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. Opposition. MR.NEARY: The hon. Leader of the The hon. gentleman , Mr.

Speaker, went to this great international conference, ridiculed - MR.MORGAN: You are a liar. MR.NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, of course, you have to ask the hon. gentleman to take that back. MR.SPEAKER: Order,please! MR.MORGAN: Stop lying. MR. SPEAKER: I have to ask the hon. minister to withdraw the statement that he made. MR.MORGAN: Well, Mr. Speaker, what does a member do in this House when someone stands and lies about him? What does he do? The hon.gentleman is not telling the truth. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I ask the hon. minister to withdraw his statements. MR.MORGAN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I have to obey the rules of the House and obey your order. And 1 4011

May 6,1983 TApe No . 1875 ah-3 MR. MORGAN: based on the fact it is a rule of the H;ouse that I have to withdraw, I withdraw. But I will say outside the House what I just said ip. the House. MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Aylward): Opposition. MR.NEARY: hon. gentleman did - Take your seat. The han. Leader of the Mr. Speaker, what the MR. TOBIN: You are down in the mud again where you belong. MR. MORGAN: That is right . MR.NEARY: Now if the Government House Leader wants thi .s debate to end today he better try to control his caucus. 4012

May 6, 1983 Tape 1876 EC - 1 MR. MORGAN: You thought I was gone away from the House again. You started to lie about me again in the confines of the House. You would not say it until you thought I was gone. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I hava touched a neJ:Ve with the han. gentle!tk"lll. MR. MORGAN: You are a vicious, dirty little politician. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman went down to this great conference. The hon. gentleman knows he did wrong. MR. MORGAN: He is lying all the ti .me. MR. NEARY: Now, that has to be taken back, Mr. Speaker. That has to be taken back, Sir. MR.

SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! The hon. member has left the floor. I will take it under consideration. MR. NEARY: Alright, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman cannot be allowed to take this House on his back. Now, Mr. Speaker, what the hon. gentleman did was he went down to an international conference of the Fisheries Council of Canada and he made a speech ridiculing and knocking the industry, saying we have poor quality fish, we have poor management, our fishery is in deep trouble, Mr. Speaker. He said that. MR. TOBIN: He did not say it. MR. NEARY: He did say it.

The hon. gentle- man was not there, he was down at the People's Conference, where I was. MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: And how do you know it? Because I have been told, because I had calls from New£oundlanders who were there who were ashamed of their lives! Now, Mr. Speaker, what a picture! What an image to create, what a picture to develop for these people who represented companies and 4013

·Ma,y 6 I l,983 Tape 1876 E;C - 2 ~. N~Y: the industry from all over the world! And the hon. gentleman made a statement about Fishery Products and is likely to be sued for it. I do not know whether or not the summons has been delivered yet. MR. MORGAN: It was not made at the Fisheries Council, boy! Come on, get your facts straight! You were so lost in trying to play politics with Richard Cashin and them and failed ~ that is what happened to you - that you got lost, so lost you went over to the other hotel, Airport Inn. They would not meet with you. MR. NEARY: On a point of order, Mr.

Speaker. ;MR., SPEAKER (Aylward) : On a point of order, the hon. ~e Leader of the Oppos~tion. ~. ~Y: Does the hon. gentlema,n have to wd. thd,raw hi,s statement now ·, ~. speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! l will check Hansard to see what remarks are recorded so that I will get the exact wording and I will rule on it at a future time. Opposition. MR. NEARY: The han. the Leader of the God! That has got to be something else! So, Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentle­ m~n went down and pai,nted this 4014

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1877 MJ,...l MR. NEARY : bleak, gloomy picture of the Newfoundland fishing industry. MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: carried by the media. MR. NEARY: Where? The Fisheries Council of Canada. I am glad to say it was Let me say sol,,t..thing else, that night the han. gentleman spoke again at the Fisheries Council of Canada. Now what did the hon. gentleman do this time? MR. MORGAN : I only spoke once at the Fisheries Council. MR. TOBIN: He got a standing ovation at the People's Conference. MR. NEARY: He told a joke that stank of racism, Mr. Speaker.

Newfoundlanders at that conference came away ashamed, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: to your old trash. MR. NEARY: ! ~ not going to sit here and listen He was trying to be funny and told a joke, with all these international people, people from Africa and all over the world. MR. CARTER: Tell us the joke. MR. NEARY: ! would not dare repeat it. I would not lower myself to repeat it. It was insulting to the intelligence of these people, Mr. Speaker. What a display of ignorance on the part of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) of this Province. MR. CARTER: . MR. NEARY : I bet you do not remember the punch line.

I certainly do remember the punch line . It must be some bad that you would It must be some gross. MR. TOBIN: not tell it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, remember that this hon. gentleman was representing this administration, and that is about the level of this administration, that is about their speed; they are uncouth. They have no class except the member for Mount Scio (Mr. Barry) r who ;is trying to 4015

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1877 MJ - 2 MR. NEARY: get up out of the mud that he has been in with thig crowd. The han. gentleman was not here earlier when I told the House about some of the remarks that we have been hearing about the han. gentleman, that if he continues he is going to get the flick. The Premier is getting fed up with him. MR. CARTER: It is very easy to get a new Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they can pick a new Leader of ·the Opposition if they want to. They seemed to be terribly worried about my leadership and that is why I said earlier - MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: No, boy.

We want you to stay there. - Mr. Speaker, thatthe attack will be one me, if I criticize, then Ihave to bear the brunt of the attack. But it should not be that way. I am merely criticizing for lack of action and unemployment, Mr. Speaker. So my leadership is not in question, not in doubt. I have not decided whether I am going to continue in this job or whether I am going to quit, I have not decided. But han. gentleman seem to be very worried about it. Oh, Mr. Speaker, would they not love to see me gone! Above anybody else in this world, in this House, would they not love to see me out. SOME HON. MEMBERS : No way.

No. MR. NEARY: Well, try again, Mr. Speaker, They can try all they want. Mr. Speaker, when han. gentleman are responding to me in this debate 1it is not my leadership that is the question, 4016

Tape 1878 PK - 1 May 6, 1983 MR. NEARY: whether I am going to stay, and they hope I am not going to stay. I am beginning to like the job, you know, Mr. Speaker, I am beginning to like this job. MR. BUTT: I am beginning to like you too. MR. NEARY: Not a bad job, pretty good pay. I like it. MR. TOBIN: You do not have to worry about us it is your own colleagues you have to worry about. MR. NEARY: But, Mr. Speaker, the tragic part of it is that we have people like the provincial Minister of Fisheries(Mr. Morgan) who went down and made a holy show of himself down at the Fishery Council of Canada.

I would not mind if I had one call, one person approach me, all the Newfoundlanders there were ashamed of themselves. You would not know, Mr. Speaker, but our fishery was the lowest, and our fishermen were the lowest form of life. They are not interested in what the han. gentleman had to say about the Newfoundland fishery. The trouble is, Mr. Speaker, they have no stature. They have no stature, they have no manpower, they have no brains. They are very low on manpower for the Cabinet. They have no stature. That is their problem.

And the Premier thinks it is great the Minister of Fisheries -that type of behaviour is great. The damage that it does to the reputation of Newfoundland and Labrador, Mr. Speaker, you cannot measure it. MR.TOBIN: The people of Newfoundland thinks he is a good minister. When he stood up the other day the people gave him a standing ovation, MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have to laugh, I have to laugh. Down at the People's Conference I had to laugh, here they were, the member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobin), the member for St. Mary's-The Capes (Mr. Hearn), the member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Matthews), the member for this, the member for that, seven or eight members from the other side. It was all orchestrated, they had it all pre-planned. Who were 4017

May 6, 1983 Tape 1878 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: the first on their feet to give him a standing ovation? Who were the frist? MR. TOBIN: The Mayor of Burin. MR. NEARY: The worms! The worms! Mr. Speaker, I have to restrain myself. MR. TOBIN: And Father Foley. MR. NEARY: I have to be kind now when I talk about the Mayor of Burin. Ask me Tory brother, that is all I can say to the hon. gentleman. Mr. Speaker, like worms, they were just like worms. MR. TOBIN: The Mayor of Burin started the clapping. MR. NEARY: They stood up, dragged up a few people.

Two-thirds of the people - I was sitting in the back - did not move out of their seats. MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: MR. TOBIN: MR. NEARY: You stood up. I certainly did not stand up. You did so · stand up. I certainly did not, Mr. Speaker. It will be some day when I give a standing ovation to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) in this Province. It will be some day. It will be a frosty Friday, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: You stood up and so did the member for Burin-St. Georges (Mr. Simmons). MR. NEARY: So I went down to the Fishery Council of Canada- it was -shameful I am told. Shameful! 4018

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1879 NM-1 MR. NEARY: Rspecially the story that had to do with racism. The han. gentleman thought it was funny. MR. TOBIN: Why did your colleague not answer the question ,..,ilt:::•" i.e wo.;;o asked i '-.:- MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we have already seen rules of this House broken there a few minutes ago and now the member for Burin-Placentia West (Mr. Tobinl is. breaking the'rules again. I wonder if Your Honour could bring him to task. Name him if gentleman can go theweekend is coming up and the han. other places and carry on like he is doing now. The people's House is not the place to do it.

So, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan} really did it this time, really, really did it this :time. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries: really put his foot in it this time, and I guarantee you that there are an awful lot of Newfoundlanders who felt pretty bad about that, pretty bad about it, thought he was be£ng smart and funny. The han. gentleman, I do not know what is mak.ing him so testy today. Obviously I hit a nerve with the hon. gentleman. r do not know if he has had hi~ summons served on him yet by Fishery Products. Mr. Speaker.

That is another matter, I will not refer to that because that may be before the courts. I am not sure. Now, Mr. Speaker, I was getting off the subject of record unemployment, but before I take my seat I want to deal briefly with another matter that has come up in recent days that has to do with spraying chemicals on our forests in this Province. MR. HODDER: And Labrador. MR. NEARY: Yes, I have a few things to say about Labrador. We have been told by the administration that they are going to spray 2,40 again this year in this Province and 4019

May 6, 1 983 MR. NEARY: getting reading to - MR. ANDREwS : that. MR. NEARY: MR. ANDREWS: have not even asked us yet. Tape No. 1879 NM- 2 the people of Millertown are The administ~ation has not said They have said it. Abitibi-Price have said it and they MR. NEARY: Well, Abitibi-Price can only say it with the approval and the blessing of the administration. MR. ANDREWS: They have not asked for a permit. MR. NEARY: They have not asked for a permit? Well, I am surprised that the hon. gentleman has not taken them to task. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: MR. ANDREWS: He has not even written them. No, that is right, Mr. Speaker.

I cannot take them to task until they ask and we do not give them permission until they put an application in. 4020

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1880 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they will knuckle under the big companies, you need not worry, because the history of this administration is to come down on the side of the big companies. That is their whole history. And th.ey will knuckle under. And if Abitibi-Price says publ.:...:.:.:.,· they are going to spray 2,4D, they are going to spray 2,4D and the only way it will be stopped is if the people steal it like they did last year and hide it away. But the minister will not lift a finger to stop it. MR. WARREN: I think the minister knew about that last year. MR.

NEARY: No, I would not say that. MR. WARREN: No, he did not know about it. Yes, Sir, he knew all about it. MR. NEARY: People of Millertown are regrouping to fight the spray programme. But, Mr. Speaker, what is more a~arrning is the fact that a study group in New Brunswick, where rnatacil was first used for spraying against s.pruce budworrn, just announced -these are scientis·ts:, these are not politicians.. The Government of New Brunswick has' been spraying rnatacil r.ow for the last fifteen or twenty years:, no further ahead. They have a super spruce budworrn now.

T.hey do not have the ordinary spruce budworrn, they have become immune to the spray -they have super budworrns·. And, Mr. Speaker, th.e people h~ve complained bitterly about the spray programme in that province and the government over there finally carne to its· sens·es and they· appointed a study group to look at rnatacil. What were the results of the study? The scientists said that it cannot. b.e proven that rnatacil affects people l·s· h.eal th, you cannot prove that, but neither can you prove. that i.t does nat affect their health.

There is not enough. known about rnatacil, the ch.ernical we have been dropping on people around this Province, spraying COTIII!\uniti.es and water supplies·. 4021

-----L --- May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1880 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, these scientists said- listen to this, I am sure the member for Conception Bay South (Mr. Butt), is very concerned about this, This is not politics. The scientists said, ' They do not know enough about matacil to determine whether it affects people's health . And they do not know enough about it to determine whether or not it affects people' ·s health.' That is a pretty serious situation. So what did this administration do? They came down on the side of the big companies and said, 'We will take our chance'.

So as a result of this they are taking a second look at spraying matacil in the Province of New Brunswick. And ~vhen asked about Newfoundland th.e scientist in his wisdom, and rightly so, decided that he would not comment. He was not asked to do a study on Newfoundland, he was only asked to do a study on New Brunswick, th:e effects of the spray programme in New Brunswick. 4022

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1881 MJ - l MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I think we should follow the example of New Brunswick and before the Minister responsible for the Environment (Mr. Andrews) issues any permits this year to spray /to the paper companies, before fi~ -~taken uu~, ~rotted out and wined and dined by the paper com?anies, the han. gentleman should think about the health of our _people, the lives of our people. M-'R:. ANDRE'I'{S : The economic -life is important too .. MR. NEARY : Their economic life is irrportant too, ftr.

Speaker, I ·would submit that if I had a choice between the health of our people and whether or not we should spray to save the forest for the paper companies,I think I know where my choice would lie. MR. ANDREWS : That has never been prove~. MR.NEARY: No, it has not been proved that it damages peoples health,but it has not been proved that it does not damage people's health either. MR. ANDREWS: Yes,it has. r1R. NEARY: Oh, no, it has not, Nr. Speaker. Not according to the scientists in New Brunswick. MR. ANDREWS: You can pick any scientist you want. MR. NEARY: Oh, you can pick any scientist you want. Mr.

Speaker, hmY' weak can you get? The hon. gentleman is getting ready now to come down on the side of the big companies again, Mr. Speaker. So, I would hope that before any spray programmes are approved this year that a study group of independent scientists and experts will be allowed to take a look at the situation and that the programme be put on hold 1 because after all, Mr. Speaker, we had a report from the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) last year who told us that the egg count is down anyway,that nature seems to be taking care of the spruce budworm programme.

Nature has a way of taking care of itself, it seems to be taking 4023

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1881 MJ -. 2 MR . NEARY: care of that programme. Now, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to mention that before I took my seat. I also want to have a few- words about Laorador and what is happening in Labrador, Mr. Speaker . This administration have a history of not being able to negotiate with anything or anybody, they have a long history of failures behind them, not one success. 4024

May 6, 1983 Tape 1882 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, when the matter came up about the caribou meat that was stranded in Labrador, North of Nain, who had to come to the rescue of the people in Labrador North, the hunters whose Ski-doos and sleds had been left isolated, stranded out in the wilderness? Was it this administration? My colleague was travelling in Northern Labrador. He called me long distance. He was very concerned and the people were very concerned that the meat was going to spoil.

On the advice of my colleague, I came into this House to ask some questions of the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr. Goudie) on this matter. And what was the result, Mr. Speaker? Well, the administration did not lift a finger. They did nothing. And only for my colleague being able to go and, through his own initiative, negotiate with the German air force, who are carrying out manoeuvers in the area, and fortunately they are there earlier this year than in previous years - only for my colleague, Mr.

Speaker, being able to do that through his own initiative, that meat would have spoiled, the hunters would probably have lost their Ski-doos and their sleds, their tents and all the other gear and equipment that they had in the country. My hon. colleague, in no official capacity except that of being the member for the district - the government, the official body governing this Province would not even approach the German air force. It took the good work on the part of my colleague to get that done.

Now, that is the respect and the regard that the administration has for the people of Labrador and the nati ·ve people of this Province, Mr. Speaker. That is a typical example. 4025 .;:

~ May 6, 1983 Tape 1882 EC - 2 MR. NEARY; I commend my colieague. I take my hat off to him. And I commend the German air fc:>rce. HR . NARREN: Sealand and Universal helped too. MR . NEARY : And Sealand and Universa l Belicc:>pters companies played a role. MR • WAlmER: -­ MR. NEARY: MR. WARREN: . Petro-can .ada gave free fuel. And Petro-canada gave free fuel. What did th .is adrninistr~tion do? Nc:>t one thing. 4026

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1883 SD - 1 MR. NEARY: Can the han. member for Conception Bay South (Mr. Butt) tell me what 'the administration did in that serious situation that developed in Labrador North? What did they do? A big goose egg, zilch, nothing, zero, ~~~~ is what they did. That is the kind of regard and consideration they have for Labrador and for the native people in this Province. I take my hat off to my colleague, he will never be defeated. God, I only wish that I had another twenty or thirty members like him, Mr. Speaker.

He did a good job and I commend him for it and the ~~ople, I am sure, will remember him. Just like the teachers will rerranber, they will rernanber. Now what about the =st of food in Labrador? Mr. Speaker, yesterday, I think all members of this han. House were shocked beyond words to discover the cost of grapefruit and the cost of eggs and the cost of living in the community of Rigolet in Labrador. Just listen, han. members will not believe it. I have to repeat it again. I heard it this morning on CBC and I still could not believe it. One grapefruit in Riga let, . $1.44 - one grapefruit.

Potatoes, $1.05 a pound and here in St. John's, thirty-four cents a pound. This · is worth repeating, Mr. Speaker. Salt beef- $3.70 a pound, $1.43 here; chicken legs- $2.5a a pound, $1.58 in St. John' ·s; cabbage - $1.29 a pound in Rigolet, thirty-three cents here; turnip - $1.16 a pound in Rigolet; hamburger meat - they do not have many barbecues down there, Mr. Speaker, or very · much Mary Brown or Kentucky Fried down there with th~ price of chicken and hamburger meat; hamburger meat - $3.~3 a pound. It is just like gold dust, $1.18 here. on the Island. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: Three times as much.

Three times as much. 4027

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1883 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Apples - thirty-seven cents each; Sunkist oranges - forty cents each; milk - $2.95 a litre, here, $1.06 a litre; listen to this, Mr. Speaker, eggs - $3.45 a dozen and here on .... 4028 .;

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1884 JV - 1 MR. NEARY: the Island $1.59. And I could go on, and on, and on, Mr. Speaker. The point is that this administration have turned their backs on Labrador. MR. WARREN: They take everything out and they do not put anything back. MR. NEARY: That is right. I used to hear, ~hen hon. gentlemen were on this side of the House criti­ cizing the former Liberal administration, take everything out, put nothing back. What have this crowd put back? What have they done for the people in Rigolet and the other communities in Northern and Southern Labrador where the cost of living is astronomical, Mr.

Speaker? The Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) has been sending people around the Province or he has his flunkies, his little political hacks, out in the various communities calling in prices - MR. TOBIN: That is not true. MR. NEARY: It is true. Calling in prices and then he puts out a.statement 'saying the lowest food prices in Newfoundland and Labrador are in Glovertown. Hurrah, hurrah! How often have we heard it. Glory alleluia. The lowest prices in Newfoundland are in Glovertown. Good for Glovertown. What is he saying, that we should all move to Glovertown?

That is due in the main, I would think, to the enterprising business people of Glovertown. It has nothing to do with the administration, Mr. Speaker. But what are they doing about it? Nothing. What else is happening in Labrador that they have - Oh, yes, we heard the other day about the fish camp, this camp that was built out of Native funds, built in Voisey Bay, built by a Tory administration without prior consultation with the people as to whether or not their money should be spent on this fish camp up in Voisey Bay. And, Mr. Speaker, I had to laugh, ~ could not 4029

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1884 JV - 2 MR. NEARY: believe what I was hearing the other day when a minister who was answering questions from my dear colleague here said that after they got the camp built they discovered there were no salmon in the bay, no salmon, all they had was Arctic char and trout. And they were hoping to attract fishermen from all over the world and all over North America.

They spent $200,000 to build this luxurious lodge in Voisey Bay and after they got it built, they opened it, and there was nobody booking reservations there, nobody wanted to come and fish, they discovered that there was no fish there. No salmon. Mr. Speaker, that takes the cake. MR. WARREN: They built a bathhouse in Davis Inlet and there was no water. MR. NEARY: That is right. I saw the bathhouse they built in Davis Inlet and there was no water to use in it. This camp must be something else. We were told that it was built for training purposes. Not one person was trained, not one that we know of. MR.

WARREN: them. MR. NEARY: There was nobody there to train Nobody there to train them. 4030

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1885 NM-1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would submLt that the government, the admini.strati.on, the Tor:Les, bui.lt that camp at the time hoping that nobody would noti.ce it aw.ay up there, out of si.ght out of mind. MR. MORGAN: It is a federal camp. MR. NEARY: It i.s not a federal camp. It was built out of ninety per cent federal funds but the-initiative had to be taken by this Province.

The decisi.on was made by the Tory Administration and they were hopi.ng1out of sight out of mind, that they would oe able to get aboard the government plane and fly i.nto Goose Bay and get aboard a helicopter and go up, do their salmon fishing PREMIER PE CKFORD : No salmon there. MR. NE·ARY: -and they discovered there are no salmon there. That is what r just said,before the han. gentleman came in. ~ffi. ANDREWS: That is. what is called the Fisheries responsibility. MR. NEARY: That is the Fi.sheries responsiblity. I see. That is the Tory policy, Mr. Speaker. What a policy!

Look, the edi.torial writers in thi.s Province could have a fie.ld day if they wanted to, instead of worrying about my suggestion that we have a one day work stoppage to protest the inactivity of the provincial and federal governments, Mr. Speaker. MR. TOBIN: That was not your suggestion. You tried to be a hero,that is all. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, instead of paying attention to that what they should be doing is writing editorials about building $200,000 luxurious lodges for themselves so they can go salmon fishLng and then when they get it built discover there are no salmon in the Voisey River. 4031 ...::

May 6, 1983 Tape No. 1885 NM- 2 MR. TOBIN: That was a suggestion from the same man who asked youw.here was the Liberal policy on the fisheries . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is that not just great? Is that not great? And this is the same administration that talk about megaprojects like the offshore. They cannot even look after a little $200,000 lodge. MR. SIMMS: Listen to him blabbing on. MR. WARREN: What he is talking about makes more sense than all of you over there. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker; ·that -is their policy for Labrador. M~ TOBIN: (Inaudible). "- MR. WARREN: The Premier told you to shut up. MR.

NEARY: Yes, and I do not blame the hon. gentleman for clamping down on the rudeness and the nastiness of the han. member for Burin-Placentia west. That is one time I agree with the han. gentleman, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Labrador has been neglected under this administration. It is like a cow path I am told, the road now from Churchill Falls to Happy Valley. MR. WARREN: One hundred and eighty miles of road. MR. NEARY: One hundred and eighty miles of road that was built by a Liberal Administration, Mr. Speaker. MR. WARREN: A little bit