British Columbia Hansard — 10 June 2021, a.m., Issue 90 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20210610am-Hansard-n90

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Thursday, June 10, 2021 Morning Sitting Issue No. 90 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing .............................................................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................................Hon.

Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Education .................................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon. George Heyman Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon. Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon.

Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation....................................................................................................... Hon. Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon.

Josie Osborne Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport .................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure ................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm Letnick Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Acting Sergeant-at-Arms..................................................................................................................................................................Greg Nelson

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP) ....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party) .........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) .................................................. Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party) ........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party) ..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party) .................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) .......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ............................. West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (BC NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent .................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast ........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre .......................................................................... Henry Y ao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................

Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon.

Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale .............................................................................. Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek...................................................................... Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee .....................................................................

Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Thursday, June 10, 2021 Morning Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 2815 Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 2815 Anxiety awareness T. Halford Graduates of 2021 N. Sharma ALS awareness and advocacy of Deane Gorsline C. Oakes Hansard Services R. Leonard Pride celebrations and work for LGBTQ2S+ rights A.

Olsen Values and public policy R. Russell Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 2818 Anchor attractions program funding for Pacific National Exhibition S. Bond Hon. M. Mark Anchor attractions program and COVID-19 response for events and festivals C. Oakes Hon. M. Mark Forest and range agreements and Indigenous rights and title A. Olsen Hon. D. Eby COVID-19 response for small businesses T. Stone Hon. R.

Kahlon Reopening of marine border and support for cruise ship industry K. Kirkpatrick Hon. R. Fleming COVID-19 relief grant eligibility for Royal Canadian Legion branches and ANAVETS club B. Banman Hon. R.

Kahlon Speaker’s Statement ................................................................................................................................................................. 2823 Comments by member and respect for presiding officer Personal Statement.................................................................................................................................................................. 2823 Withdrawal and apology for comments made in the House D.

Clovechok Tabling Documents................................................................................................................................................................. 2824 Office of the Representative for Children and Y outh, report,Skye’s Legacy: A Focus on Belonging Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 2824 R.

Merrifield Orders of the Day Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2824 Estimates: Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation(continued) T. Stone Hon. R. Kahlon

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2827 Estimates: Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development(continued) Hon. K. Conroy J. Rustad M. Bernier G. Kyllo Proceedings in the Birch Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 2830 Estimates: Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General (continued) M. Morris Hon. M. Farnworth

THURSDAY , JUNE 10, 2021 The House met at 10:04 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers and reflections: D. Coulter. [10:05 a.m.] Introductions by Members A. Olsen: Today I’ d like to introduce Katherine. She’ll be watching proceedings in the House today. She shared the story with me of her 36-year-old son who has suffered from an addiction to drugs since he was in high school — bullied, suffered from ADHD, abused, assaulted from the age of nine, attended many, many treatment centres, detox stays were too short, no aftercare according to the family.

It’s gone on now for a long time due to COVID without detox and treatment, and he’s feeling what many who suf- fer this feel. That’s the shame and stigma that society has heaped upon these challenges. Today I want to again lift my hands up to the parents and the families who are struggling with a loved one, help- ing a loved one through these challenges. The Holding Hope families — I want to raise them up and elevate their stories and continue to share their stories as we struggle with this together. Hon. K.

Chen: On behalf of the Speaker and myself, I’m actually very honored to have this opportunity to wish a constituent, a friend, an uncle, a long-time community volunteer and someone who is also known by many mem- bers in this House, Mr. Mike Sandhu — or, as I call him, Uncle Mike — a happy 80th birthday. I have known Uncle Mike for many, many years — actu- ally, through the Speaker, who is also a close friend with Uncle Mike for years.

Uncle is someone who is always con- necting people in the community, helping his neighbors and friends when they have questions about government issues or services, bringing them to local MLA offices and making sure people get the support that they need. As many members in this House who know him well, Uncle Mike is always full of energy. Uncle is always there for you when people need him, and just like the Speaker, I’m so grateful that Uncle has been like family to me. The three of us actually live just a few blocks away from each other.

We’re like a big family in our beautiful community in the Cariboo area in Burnaby-Lougheed. I’m so grateful to be part of this family. I hope the House please joins us to wish Mr. Mike Sandhu a happy birthday with lots of good health and hap- piness. G. Kyllo: I’ d like to recognize the retirement of a dear friend and a strong community member of Sicamous, Wayne March. After over a quarter century of managing the Sicamous and District Recreation Centre — a found- ing member and manager of the Sicamous Eagles Junior B Hockey Club — and at the youthful age of 76, Wayne will be hanging up his skates.

Wayne, thank you very much for a lifetime of service to the community and to the sport of hockey. We’re forever grateful for your many contributions and wish you all the best in retirement. Would the House please join me in thanking Wayne for a lifetime of contributions to hockey and the district of Sicamous. Hon. D. Eby: I was just looking around the House, and I think it would be a shame if the suit of the member for Abbotsford South went unrecognized. I wonder if the House would please make the suit feel welcome this morning. Statements (Standing Order 25B) ANXIETY AW ARENESS T.

Halford: I first learned about anxiety at a fairly early age. My grandfather, growing up, was my hero. He was my best friend. He was a World War II veteran. He was a pilot in the air force. Toughest guy I know. He was the first one that I actually saw struggle with anxiety. We would have family barbecues and events, and he would disappear for short periods of time. [10:10 a.m.] I didn’t really understand. Then, at a later age, I did understand. He was having panic attacks.

This was some- thing that I got more familiar with as I grew older, and it was actually something that he and I both shared together as I grew older. It was kind of a mutual support. There are a lot of things that I am proud that I’ve gotten from my grandfather. This is actually on that list as well. It’s something that I think we all need to talk about, especially today, because today is the inaugural World Anxiety Day. Everyone here in this chamber has felt the impacts of anxiety in their lives, in their own personal lives or the lives of those around them, whether they realize it or not.

We’ve all been affected by an anxiety disorder. Anxiety can hamper our ability to find enjoyment among friends and family, like I just mentioned previously. It can flood our minds and overwhelm our judgment. Anxiety can under- mine our interpersonal connections and our quality of life. Nearly one in five Canadians were diagnosed with an anxiety disorder — I’m one of them — prior to the pan- demic, impacting women at almost double the rate of men. As we all know, this pandemic has had a significant impact on our mental health. 2815

As we look forward to back to normal, we have to make sure that we’re talking about this every day. We need to make sure that we’re talking to each other and that we’re ending the stigma when it comes to mental health and — today, specifically — when it comes to anxiety. I think we all in this House realize the important tools that we have to speak out on these important issues. I take that very seriously. My grandfather is no longer with us, but I am sure that he’ d be proud that we’re talking about this and that we’re talking about his anxiety in such a pos- itive way.

It was something that actually made me more proud of him — the fact that he was able to be open about it and we were able to support each other. I thank you for the opportunity to speak today. I look forward to talking about this tomorrow and in the days ahead. GRADUATES OF 2021 N. Sharma: I’ d like to send my heartfelt congratulations to all the graduates of 2021 in our province and in my rid- ing of Van Tech, Notre Dame, Templeton and LaSalle. This has, no doubt, been a challenging year in your academic career, and your resilience and hard work have not gone unnoticed.

I want to commend all of you for completing this

chapter in your life during a time when all of our lives around the world have been disrupted so profoundly from the pandemic. Y ou’ve had to deal with obstacles beyond your years, juggling assignments and studying for exams while staying connected virtually. I know for far too many, this has led to higher anxiety and uncertainty during a time when you’ve had to make some of the biggest decisions in your life. This pandemic has encouraged us all to look deeper and inward and identify with what really matters to us.

It urged us to rethink traditions and conventional paths, and it has taught us how resilient we can be when we work together in the face of huge obstacles. Let this be a gift to you for your future. Dream hard, stay curious, try new things, and don’t be afraid to make mistakes along the way. We will be there for you, so don’t forget to ask for help whenever you need it. The future looks bright with minds and hearts like yours. It also looks more inclusive, more welcoming and more understanding. I’m so proud of you for hanging in there and getting it done.

Y ou’ve proven to us all how resi- lient you can be in the face of unforeseen challenges. Here’s to you, class of 2021. Now go out there, do mag- nificent things, and make us all proud. ALS AW ARENESS AND ADVOCACY OF DEANE GORSLINE C. Oakes: This Global ALS Awareness Day on June 19 and 20, Deane Gorsline, a Cariboo hero, will be taking the Walk to End ALS to a whole new level, walking 28.5 hours on Parliament Hill to bring forward the urgency to end ALS.

Before his diagnosis in 2018 at the age of 29, Deane, a combat engineer and combat diver with the Canadian Armed Forces, was well on his way to accomplishing his career and personal goals. In the words of Captain Gors- line: “I believe being a warrior means that you are willing to die rather than have your cause compromised.

Y ou apply the essence of your soul to the cause and stand in the face of adversity, no matter what the consequences. ” [10:15 a.m.] Together, Deane, with his lovely wife Dani, supported by his parents, Barb and Jim, are driven by massively trans- formative purpose to further ALS research for others. In February of 2020, he co-founded and chaired the ALS Action Canada group, whose mission became advocating for expedited drug approval processes and bringing clinic- al trials to Canada to make promising new drugs available for persons living with ALS.

In B.C., progress is being made with the foundation of Project Hope and the ALS Society of B.C., but urgency is critical. Let’s inspire a call to action in our province to have a laser focus on a cure for ALS, which may open the door for a cure for other neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease. We have such distinguished scientists in this province, like another Quesnel graduate, Dr. Marco Marra, who decoded the SARS virus and is the UBC Canada Research Chair in Genome Science. I know we can do this. Let’s make this our mission to Mars.

Deane, thank you for your service to this country. Please let us all come together and fight for Deane as he has fought for us. June is ALS Awareness Month. Now is the time to fund the research and invest in British Columbians to ensure we find a cure. HANSARD SERVICES R. Leonard: I’ d like to address the House in praise of some unsung heroes here in the Legislature. Pre-COV- ID-19 pandemic, when 87 MLAs arrived on a Monday morning, they were assured that there was no need to adjust their microphones. In fact, don’t do it. Cameras were at the ready.

Behind the curtain, like the Wizard of Oz, the people of Hansard, with the greatest precision, have for decades recorded the words and the sights and sounds of democracy at work. Now, you may be picturing this great chamber in the Legislature, but one also has to go beyond these marble walls, down the halls to the Douglas Fir and Birch wood- panelled rooms for more activity that must be recorded, all at the same time, as budgets are explored and bills are debated.

When committees go on tour to engage with Brit- ish Columbians where they live, the folks from Hansard are up late at night and are hard at work in the earliest 2816 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

hours of the morning, long before the first words are recor- ded for posterity. They build up and break down the sound and video systems multiple times a day and find ways to connect with Victoria to be sure everything is transcribed accur- ately and in context, first into the Blues, or draft, and finally into a polished, complete record ready to share with the world — testament to a transparent and func- tioning democracy. When the pandemic hit and we were all sent home, Hansard kept on the job to find new ways to bring us all together so democracy could continue to function.

The hybrid session is a confusing array of in-person and virtual appearances on screen, yet Hansard makes each second in the whole show a work of art. While we tear our hair out over IT challenges, Hansard never lets us down. I want to thank Mike and Amanda and Simon and the whole crew that’s down working in front of all those screens and really say: please, let the whole House appre- ciate the work that they do to support us. PRIDE CELEBRATIONS AND WORK FOR LGBTQ2S+ RIGHTS A. Olsen: June is Pride Month. To celebrate, I want to start by looking back.

The month of June was chosen to celebrate Pride in commemoration of the Stonewall upris- ing in June of 1969, where advocates like Marsha P . John- son and Stormé DeLarverie stood for equal rights and lib- eration. They were unapologetic in their identities in the face of violence, discrimination and hate. We have our own history in Canada and British Colum- bia, too. In 1973, Vancouver saw its first Pride celebration with a picnic and art celebration in Ceperley Park as part of the first national Pride Week celebrated in several cities across the country. Vancouver’s first Pride Parade followed five years later.

In 1988, Svend Robinson became the first openly gay member of the Canadian Parliament. And in 1995, Jamie Lee Hamilton became the first trans person to run for public office anywhere in Canada. [10:20 a.m.] Those mentioned and so many others that have paved the way stood up not only for themselves but also for the community at the time and also for the freedom of those who would come after them. As I think about the future of Pride, I imagine a community of radical acceptance, sup- ported by both those who identify as LGBTQ2IA+ and those who do not.

We need to ensure that anywhere in British Columbia, one could find this community. In the words of Audre Lorde: “It’s not our differences that divide us. It’s our inability recognize, accept and cel- ebrate those differences. ” I celebrate those who have come before, those who are here now and those who will make our future even brighter and more vibrant. And I thank those who are doing the work to keep our queer and trans youth safe, supported and, like those who came before them, apologetically themselves.

I encourage everyone to participate in this work of cre- ating a safe and accepting world, and I’ d like to thank Abby Koning for helping me with these words and helping our caucus as our intern over this spring session. Thank you, Abby, and thank you to all of those who have stood up and have been unapologetically themselves. V ALUES AND PUBLIC POLICY R. Russell: Good morning, everyone. I reflect today upon how we recognize value and how it informs our work here.

I had the honour to work with a brilliant philosoph- er some years ago, and I use the word “brilliant” intention- ally, given that I believe she radiates brightness into other people’s lives. We had the opportunity to work together on a project about how our ecological understanding of our environ- ment, specifically our oceans, has the potential to inform our behaviour and, in turn, our ethics, regarding our inter- actions with the sea around us. I like to learn, and at the heart of my learning in that process with Cathy was how we as individuals, or collect- ively as a society, come to define our values.

One of the key tenets of this philosophy of value is that we even decide how to attribute value in very different ways, let alone what we value. We can value outcomes, which is, I think, obvious to most of us. We value our health care system’s ability to heal and make people well, for example. But we also value process. In health care, we probably value a system that doesn’t present procedural obstacles to racialized people. Finally, we also value duty. This might place value on the obligation we see to provide universal, publicly funded medical care.

Recognizing this trio of duty, process and outcome helps shape my understanding of what we’re doing here. I think much of our role in this House as politicians is to take the wisdom of our knowledge keepers — science, elders or otherwise — and overlay a lens of social value atop those truths. The reason that I use my time today to speak to this is we occasionally lose track, I think, of how malleable and diverse not just our values themselves are but also our pro- cess for determining value. It’s important that how and what we value is regularly reviewed as the foundation of our policy.

I use manage- ment of our forests as an example. We have always valued economic returns, and eventually, fibre volume became proxy for dollars. But now, we’re recognizing more and more that we need to shift back to managing our forests for more comprehensive value. That value will be diverse, and it’ll change. It will, no doubt, include a central place for economic returns. But it’ll also include, fundamentally, community autonomy, recreation, biodiversity and much more. Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2817

Because of this, I look forward to the discussions ahead about the forestry intentions paper released last week, which starts to sketch out a road map, putting value more explicitly back into the equation. Oral Questions ANCHOR ATTRACTIONS PROGRAM FUNDING FOR PACIFIC NATIONAL EXHIBITION S. Bond: Well, after 15 months of begging for help, the Premier promised to save the PNE. And to absolutely no one’s surprise, he bungled it again. A month ago he told British Columbians that he would do what it takes to save the fair.

But yesterday PNE president Shelley Frost had this to say. “Our requests for additional consideration from the province are falling on deaf ears. ” Will the Premier keep the promise that he made and provide $8 million that the PNE requires to survive? Hon. M. Mark: I appreciate the question from the member opposite. The PNE is vitally important to our communities. It’s an iconic attraction in East Vancouver. Recently we heard good news that they were opening on June 11, and that is positive. [10:25 a.m.] The restart plan is showing promise that we are going to return to a new level of normal.

I want to assure the member that we have worked with the PNE. My staff have met with the PNE. There are some technical pieces that the member is aware of. The municipality is responsible for the PNE. I’ve spoken to the mayor about the PNE. We are working with the PNE. That was part of the announcement for our major anchor attractions, to support those that have been impacted by this pandemic. That was a call to action for targeted funding. The application deadline closed on Monday, and I hope that there is good news that will work in the favour of the PNE and other anchor attractions.

I’ll just put it on the record that we are doing the advocacy, working with the PNE, and also asking the fed- eral government, and $400 million was put on the table for events and festivals. We’re going to make sure that B.C. gets its fair share. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental. S. Bond: I’m not sure which part of the question the minister missed. Y esterday the president of the PNE said that the request was falling on deaf ears. The minister can trot out all the lines she wants. The president of the PNE said this government is not doing what its Premier prom- ised to do.

He made a promise: “I will save the PNE. ” Let’s hear what else the Premier said. He said a month ago: “It’s attractions like the PNE that we had in mind when we developed the program. ” But the PNE has over two million guests and 4,300 employees, over 30 times more employees and guests as other attractions in the category. Again, Shelley Frost writes: “Interestingly, fairs and fest- ivals are not even eligible for this funding. We are only able to apply through Playland, so it is not designed to support organizations like ours. ” Despite what the minister continues to say, the PNE does not fit the category.

The Premier said he designed the program for the PNE, but apparently, he botched it. Will he provide the urgent aid it required or will this incredible provincial asset have to close forever? Hon. M. Mark: The PNE recently announced that they’re opening on June 11. That is positive news. The member is mischaracterizing the announcement that we made two weeks ago, that the Premier and I made. It wasn’t designed for the PNE. It was designed to support the ecosystem, our tourism ecosystem.

It was designed as a call to action in partnership with industry experts who said that we needed to send relief out the door to help with anchor attractions. In the Lower Mainland, in rural communities and for tour bus operators — that was the intent of the grant. It’s not a loan. It’s a grant. Up to $1 million is available for applicants. The deadline closed on Monday. It was a trans- parent process. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Let’s listen to the answer, please. Minister will continue. Hon. M. Mark: Thank you, hon. Speaker. Decisions haven’t been made. I’ll put it on the record again.

The city has a role to play. They have jurisdiction over the PNE. We have a role to play, which is why we announced the major anchor attraction, and hopefully good news is going to come once we’re finished reviewing the applications, hundreds of which we received. The federal government…. I’ve had active conversa- tions with the federal government on what they’re doing for major events and attractions, and $400 million is on the table. I’m ensuring that we get our fair share here in British Columbia. ANCHOR ATTRACTIONS PROGRAM AND COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR EVENTS AND FESTIV ALS C.

Oakes: Just to clarify: it’s Playland that is opening. We’re excited. Where is the support for the PNE? So the botching doesn’t end with attractions like the PNE — oh no. The Premier has completely bungled this file. 2818 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

The Minister of Tourism virtually stood in this Legis- lature and told groups like the Quesnel Rodeo, the North Thompson Fall Fair, the IPE and a host of other groups to apply for this funding. So what did these groups do? They listened to the minister. They applied. What was the response? I quote: “ As noted in the program guidelines, festivals and events are ineligible. ” Can the Premier please tell these groups why they were so badly misled? [10:30 a.m.] Hon. M. Mark: The only people that are misleading the public are the official opposition.

This has been a call to action from the tourism sector who suggested, who advocated that we get targeted funds to anchor attractions, which is exactly what we’ve done. This is a part of the Tour- ism Task Force calls to action and recommendations. I’ll remind the member that we’ve been working around the clock to get relief dollars out the door to help the much-impacted tourism sector. When I tell the member opposite in full transparency that we are advocating with the federal government to ensure that we get our fair share of the $400 million for events and festivals, that advocacy is going to continue.

So $50 million in a grant, not a loan, is a significant investment, on top of the 4,100 tourism businesses that received the small and medium-sized grants — up to $45,000 in grants, not loans. I’ll remind the member, as I did last week, that money has gone out the door through the B.C. Arts Council to support festivals — through Creative B.C., through Amp- lify B.C., through gaming grants. Our government is doing everything we can to support these vitally important insti- tutions across British Columbia.

Good news is coming, especially as we continue to restart and open up our communities for travel and gath- ering and events. Mr. Speaker: The member for Cariboo North on a sup- plemental. C. Oakes: We’ve heard from this minister repeatedly, saying that good news is coming, while, in good faith, we brought forward to this House questions from our con- stituents — questions, concerns raised — on festivals and events that had not been able to apply for any of the fund- ing that this minister continues to bring forward in this House.

We’ve brought forward in this House, to this minister, the fact that we have groups like the Quesnel Rodeo Club and many others that needed support now. So in trans- parency, what does this minister do? She says: “Tell these groups to apply for this funding. ” Surely to goodness, this minister knows what the pro- gram guidelines are. So why is it that when we ask this minister for groups that had, up till now, been ineligible for the multitude of different programs, the minister said to apply? This minister stood in this chamber and told them to apply and gave them false hope.

The minister’s incompetence has left these groups wondering how they’re going to survive. To the Premier, will he do the right thing and allow these groups to apply for the funding that the minister cruelly promised and then ripped away? Hon. M. Mark: Well, maybe the member will stand in the chambers and talk about the clawback on people with disabilities and their bus passes and apologize for that cruel decision. What I’ve been doing, from day one, is moving the dial on the calls to action from the Tourism Task Force. That is what the public service has been doing.

We’ve been work- ing around the clock to get relief out the door to support the sector. It is disingenuous for the member to suggest that we are trying to mislead anybody. A transparent process — an invitation for anchor attractions to apply for a grant, not a loan — with full disclosure was on our website. At no time did I suggest to the member that I’m going to be review- ing those applications — that me, as the elected minister, is going to make those decisions. This is going to go through an adjudicative process. The application deadline closed on Monday.

I hope that good news is going to come — good news that is going to help a sector that has been hard hit. We’re going to continue doing that work, and I hope that it’s going to support constituencies across our province to welcome visitors back to anchor attractions, because we haven’t been able to gather and travel and all of those things because of the pandemic. I think it’s good news, and I’m going to continue doing the work. FOREST AND RANGE AGREEMENTS AND INDIGENOUS RIGHTS AND TITLE A.

Olsen: It’s really painful for me to have to say this, but when it comes to Indigenous relations and reconciliation, this government has dusted off the 1990s playbook. To be clear, the conflict and contention over the land base does not come from honouring human rights. It comes from denying and violating them. [10:35 a.m.] The Attorney General told me in budget estimates that until an Aboriginal Crown has been negotiated by treaty or decided by courts through litigation, the Crown maintains control over the land and resources. That is the old position of denial, and it’s not what our Supreme Court has said.

While the Premier talks about sovereignty and title for Indigenous People, our Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation is out there advancing the same old models of forestry agreements put in place by the B.C. Lib- erals over a decade ago. These agreements are based on Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2819

the denial of Indigenous rights — saying rights are asser- ted; not accepting that they exist, not recognizing that nations have any ownership in land and resources. They are designed to achieve greater stability for the Crown to keep cutting trees, to keep extracting resources. To the Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconcili- ation, will the minister admit that these forest and range consultation and revenue-sharing agreements are designed to secure Crown opportunities to continue har- vesting resources off the land? Hon. D. Eby: Thank you to the member for the ques- tion. I think it’s an important issue.

Regrettably, I think the member fundamentally mis- stated what I told him in estimates. We talked about — and it was an important discussion — the importance of negotiation and partnership between government and First Nations as we wait for a formal treaty agreement or a decision from a court, a recognition of rights and title on the land and that there are two competing sov- ereignties — Indigenous sovereignty and the European colonial sovereignty — and that reconciling those two is the work ahead of us.

So for him to stand in this place and pretend the con- versation was about something else or that we’re taking an approach of three decades ago, when so much has happened since then, including all of us standing together on UNDRIP , is very regrettable. A. Olsen: Anybody and everybody in this province, I invite them to go and watch the estimates debate, because it’s not regrettable. What’s regrettable is that the Attorney General is trying to reframe what he told me. What he told me was that the way that Indigenous nations can get title over their lands is by going to court or by signing a treaty.

Going to court took the Tŝilhqot’in 25 years. There are nations in this province right now that are languishing 30 years without a treaty. While this government is pleading for the space to pro- tect old-growth trees with Indigenous nations, they’ve been rapidly signing forest and range agreements to secure their ability to just keep cutting and, in fact, to silence Indigenous nations who want to speak out about these things. More than 130 of these forest and range agree- ments have been signed; 40 have been signed in 2021 alone.

These agreements entrench racist stereotypes and the Attorney General’s position of denial. The Attorney General tried to reassure me that the situ- ation wasn’t as grim as I was making it out to be: “Perhaps it’s all about perspective. ” The members of this chamber, and all British Columbians, should know the truth. This B.C.

NDP government is currently arguing in court, in multiple pieces of litigation, the opposite of what the gov- ernment is saying publicly: that certain Indigenous People don’t exist as a people, that their rights have been extin- guished — if they ever had them in the first place — and that even if there are rights, they’re effectively meaningless. When the Premier and others say the good words and have no intention of following through, it’s hurtful. We were out recognizing that pain that we were all feeling this week.

To the Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconcili- ation, how does the minister responsible for reconciliation stand on the sidelines while his colleagues drag us back to the dark decades of denial of rights? [10:40 a.m.] Hon. D. Eby: I hear the member’s passion on this. I think we all feel passionate about this really important work. I wouldn’t discount the agreements that government has reached with nations like Lake Babine, with Carrier- Sekani — remarkable progress,

section 7 agreements being negotiated across the province. There’s really important work happening and, in fact — in one of the areas that the member raised in this House on a number of occa- sions, Fairy Creek — agreements with and partnership with the three nations there, respect for their positions, with respect to the resources in that area. I take his point on litigation. There’s room for improve- ment. We’re working with the First Nations Leadership Council on guidelines related to litigation, but we’re not going to reach reconciliation through courts.

It’s not bin- ary — treaty or courts — as the member said, nor did I say that in estimates. There are a number of agreements that we can reach with nations in between those two as we work towards a long-term and sustainable treaty. I think this is important work. I think we’re making good progress, and there is more to do. COVID-19 RESPONSE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES T. Stone: During the Premier’s pandemic election, he made clear to small businesses that supports for them would not be delayed. We now know that the Premier has bungled this as well.

In estimates, the Minister of Jobs admitted that less than 50 percent of the business support grants have actually been paid out to businesses. The question is this. Fifteen months into the pandemic, why is it continuing to take so long to get supports out the door to businesses that desperately need the help? Hon. R. Kahlon: During the 14 hours of estimates dis- cussions, I shared with the member multiple times the facts, which are that B.C. has the highest per-capita sup- port for people and businesses in Canada, and we’re really proud of that.

And that’s reflected in the 99 percent job recovery rate, leading the country. Just recently, we’ve had economists from various organizations talk about how good a position B.C. ’s economy is in. We know that busi- 2820 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

nesses have been struggling. We know that. And that’s why we’ve put significant dollars on the table to support them. The member wants to talk about grants. The original program had 15,000 businesses we were hoping to sup- port. Well over 18,000 businesses have applied. In fact, we’ve increased the budget from $300 million to $430 mil- lion so that we can support more businesses during what is a very challenging time. We’re proud of the supports we’ve been able to provide. It’s showing in the job numbers for the province.

And of course, we’re going to continue to support businesses through this challenging time that we’re in. Mr. Speaker: The member for Kamloops–South Thompson on a supplemental. T. Stone: Well, the reality is that British Columbia is actually No. 8 in the country, No. 8 in per-capita direct supports and grants for small business — No. 8, not No. 1. Sixty-eight percent of all of the supports that are provided to small business here in British Columbia are in the form of deferrals and loans, which, I remind the members in government, have to be paid back.

The CFIB has said that the average debt that a small business in B.C. has taken on during the pandemic is $170,000. The minister talks in glowing terms about his govern- ment’s record in pushing supports out the door. Let’s take a look at that as well. The circuit breaker grant, launched two months ago — 40.4 percent of those dollars are out the door. The launch online grants, launched four months ago — only 37.9 percent of those dollars are out the door. But this is the doozy. This is the big one. The small business recovery grant, launched eight months ago — only 49.8 percent of the dollars are out the door.

This government’s supports for small business have been characterized by half-measures, arbitrary eligibility rules, delays getting dollars out, and being number 8 of all provinces in the country per capita in direct supports. It’s embarrassing how the Premier continues to bumble along with less than half of these supports out the door. And that’s according to the Jobs Minister. These are his num- bers from estimates over the last couple of days. Now, I’ve heard from Toni, who runs a fitness centre in Fort Nelson.

Toni says: “I still haven’t even received a response on whether or not I qualified or how much I will be receiving, even though the circuit breaker is over. ” [10:45 a.m.] The question to the Premier is this. How many more business owners like Toni are still waiting and waiting and waiting for the money that is owed to them by the Pre- mier? Hon. R. Kahlon: As we canvassed for many hours in this House…. The member chooses to cherry-pick one line of a report.

If he chooses to read the rest of the report, I highlighted for the member, in fact, over 12 pages, where it’s highlighted that B.C. leads the country in economic recovery supports for people in businesses — the uncom- fortable truth for the member opposite, all the members opposite, that B.C. is leading the country in economic recovery in jobs, leading the country. Every single province we are leading in economic recovery. Bryan Yu, chief economist for Central 1, says B.C. ’s eco- nomy “has performed better than expected. ” Ken Peacock, chief economist for the B.C.

Business Council, said: “I would say the B.C. economy is in pretty good shape. It’s pretty healthy. ” Peacock said that a more dire forecast didn’t materialize because B.C. ’s lockdown didn’t last as long as expected, and government spending supported businesses and individuals, and businesses adapted. I appreciate that the member has got a job to do, and he has to find something to be critical of, but he should be proud of how we, collectively, in this province have handled the pandemic and how well the economy is doing, and we’re going to continue to support those businesses that do need supports.

REOPENING OF MARINE BORDER AND SUPPORT FOR CRUISE SHIP INDUSTRY K. Kirkpatrick: The Premier has bungled the cruise ship issue from day one. He arrogantly refused to work with the Americans on technical stops, blithely said the bill bypassing our ports would never pass, and he refuses to acknowledge the danger to a $3 billion industry that employs tens of thousands of people.

John Nicholson is the vice-president of hotels and res- taurants at the Listel Hospitality Group, and he’s pretty blunt. “We’re super worried about the cruise ships by- passing British Columbia now. ” There’s a lot of discussion about the border being opened earlier than expected. To the Premier, has he secured from the Prime Minister a commitment that when the land border opens, the mar- ine border will open at the same time? Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question.

The cruise ship industry is incredibly important to our economy, and I’m very pleased that the numbers prior to the pandemic, under our government, were very encouraging. For the first time in B.C. ’s history, for example, we exceeded over one million passenger board- ings in the cruise ship terminals in our province, a 22 per- cent increase over 2018. Clearly, the industry views us as a very valuable market, an area of international expansion. The pandemic, however, has changed everything. This has been one of the most hard-hit industries around the globe.

It has been one of the industries that’s been under an intense spotlight in terms of safety. These are very con- fined spaces. The cruise ship industry is not reopening with mass numbers of passengers on board. In the United States, in fact, sailings are not happening yet. The Centers for Disease Control is having trial sailings, but even in Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2821

that, it’s unclear whether they’ll be able to rescue much of a season. What we’re prepared to do is work with the federal gov- ernment on having a phased reopening, work with the industry. I’ve written to the Minister of Transportation in Ottawa, saying that we’re prepared to talk about tech- nical stops. We believe that our provincial health office can make that work. We certainly have no objections of Americans getting to another part of America, in this case Alaska, using our ports, using our waters. We want to sup- port them as they recover from the economy.

Look, the United States and Canada are doing things a little bit differently. We don’t have 50,000 people in a base- ball stadium right now in Canada. That’s not how we’re doing things here. They’re opening up in a way that, per- haps, would make many Canadians very uncomfortable. But the discussion around border reopening is being led by the Prime Minister. He’s told Canadians he’ll have an update on or about June 21. We look forward to that, and we’ve made our views known. Mr. Speaker: The member for West Vancouver–Capi- lano on a supplemental. K. Kirkpatrick: I thank the minister for his response.

However, I did not hear the answer to the question in that response. [10:50 a.m.] No one is saying to give the cruise ship sector special treatment. They’re saying to treat everyone equally and fairly. This sector for British Columbia employs thousands of people, directly and indirectly. Gurpal Nagra is the owner and operator at MacLure’s taxi. This is what he says: “If we could get cruise ship traffic here at some point this year, it would be immense for the taxi industry. That’s a steady source of income for drivers who have suffered through this pandemic.

If the land and air borders are opening, we hope the Premier is making sure the ports open at the same time. It’s only fair. ” Again, to the Premier, has he secured a commitment, advocated for and secured a commitment, from the Prime Minister that the federal government will open up the marine border at the same time as the land border? Hon. R. Fleming: I think this discussion flows out of what we just heard from the Minister of Jobs and Econom- ic Recovery.

The reason British Columbia has performed better than other provinces, the reason our economy is in better shape is because we haven’t had political rhetoric guiding our response. We’ve led with science about how to safely reopen every single industry and to guide reopening and safe business practices in the province, and that is no differ- ent when it comes to the cruise ship industry. We are going to let the Centre for Disease Control, our provin- cial health officer and our Canadian federal counterparts guide that discussion.

I find the line of questioning a little bit absurd because it ignores how complex the cruise ship industry is. It’s a congregate setting. It’s buffet dining. It’s a whole bunch of things that are very supportive of the spread of trans- mission. Just the other day in the Mediterranean, passengers with variants were spreading the disease on a ship there. They disembarked in Sicily. There’s worry about exposure there. This is something that should not be rushed into. It should be examined carefully. That’s what’s happening right now. We believe we can support the request of the Alaskans.

We’ve made that position known. That’s what British Columbia feels, and we’ve put that in writing to the minister. When it comes to reopening the borders, this is a multi- layered discussion. We want to have American visitors here. We want to do it safely. There are discussions about vaccine passports and all the sorts of safe measures that would allow that to happen. We look forward to the cruise ship industry opening up again in British Columbia. We are on a trajectory of incredible growth. We support that industry. We support a strong tourism economy.

That’s what we’ve done to support that industry through this pandemic, and we’ll do it when it’s safe to reopen and when science says it’s safe to reopen. COVID-19 RELIEF GRANT ELIGIBILITY FOR ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION BRANCHES AND ANAVETS CLUB B. Banman: It would seem that the only way to get the Premier’s attention is to have him be a member of your club. That seems to be the only plausible explanation as to why the Premier has chosen to support one veterans group over another. That is fundamentally unfair, and it’s unjust.

After weeks of asking, the Premier finally provided relief to the Royal Canadian Legion, as he should have in the first place. But he inexplicably left out the Army, Navy and Air Force Veterans from the very same funding. This group wrote a letter to the Premier on May 21, and it was brought up several times in this chamber. “Both entities perform invaluable contributions, assist- ance and support to our esteemed veterans.

So to choose only one rather than both to receive the funding is essen- tially saying that our members and services are not as worthy or as valuable in your government’s opinion and thought process. ” So the question. Will the Premier do the right thing — respect all veterans and provide the relief they’ve asked for? Hon. R. Kahlon: I think it’s fair to say that every mem- 2822 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

ber in this Legislature respects our veterans. To suggest otherwise is absurd. I shared with the member…. Just in the last day or two, I shared with the member from Kamloops that we received the request. We’re working on it, and we’ll have more to say soon. [10:55 a.m.] [End of question period.] Speaker’s Statement COMMENTS BY MEMBER AND RESPECT FOR PRESIDING OFFICER Mr. Speaker: Y esterday afternoon, during second read- ing debate on Bill 7, the member for Columbia River–Rev- elstoke made comments regarding what he perceived to be a lack of participation in debate on the bill by members of the government caucus.

Upon hearing the comment, the Deputy Speaker inter- vened. He cautioned the member not to cast aspersions on other members. When asked repeatedly by the Deputy Speaker to withdraw his remarks, the member refused to do so. As a result, the member was not given the oppor- tunity to complete his speech. Second reading debate was thereafter closed, as no other members indicated that they wished to participate in the debate. The House then pro- ceeded to a new item of business.

During the intervening recess, the member for Colum- bia River–Revelstoke used an unparliamentary word when speaking to the official opposition House Leader about the events that had transpired in the House. However, as the chamber audio was still live, the remark was heard by other members in the chamber and those participating remotely. I have a number of observations to make on this matter.

First, having reviewed the transcript of proceedings, I con- clude that the comments made by the member for Colum- bia River–Revelstoke, while speaking to Bill 7, about mem- bers of the government caucus, while immoderate, do not fall into the category of remarks which require an imme- diate withdrawal. I appreciate the desire of the Deputy Speaker to raise the tenor of debate in this House. However, in this case, the member’s comments were not inconsistent with remarks made on previous occasions, including remarks made by other members earlier in the same second read- ing debate.

It is important that the rules of this House and the expectations of those who take their seats in this chamber apply fairly and consistently to all members. However, it is also inevitable that, in responding in the moment, any presiding officer may occasionally fall into error to the dis- pleasure of one side of the House or the other. Although I conclude that the remarks made by the member for Columbia River–Revelstoke were not unpar- liamentary to the extent that would require a withdrawal, I must express my disappointment that the member repeatedly refused to follow the clear direction of the Deputy Speaker.

This changed the tenor of the exchange and causes me great concern. The members of this House have agreed, through the standing orders, that the presiding officer shall hold sig- nificant responsibilities and powers to address disorderly conduct. The refusal to take the direction of the Chair is contrary to the rules of the House and is an example of gross misconduct and will not be tolerated. The role of a presiding officer is not an easy one. It is difficult to constantly gauge and react immediately and accurately to the unpredictable nature of members during debate.

One of my predecessors, Speaker Sawicki, when ad- dressing the House in 1994, noted: “It is a delicate balance that every Speaker must strive to achieve between respect for freedom of speech and the need to maintain order, between the rights of the majority to govern and the rights of the minority to he heard. In return, every Speaker must be able to rely upon all hon. members to be vigilant in sup- port of the institution itself. ” The members who take on the responsibilities of a presiding officer require our respect.

They take on these duties on behalf of all members to protect and uphold the rules, customs and practices of this institution. Any dis- respect shown to a presiding officer reflects very poorly on the Legislative Assembly as a whole. [11:00 a.m.] I will offer two reminders to all members. First, if a member wishes to call the attention of the Chair, whether in the House or in committee, to the violation of our standing orders or practices of this House, they’re able to do so by raising a point of order.

If members are unsure about the usage of points of order, the Chair and the Clerks-at-the-Table are always happy to provide guidance and to answer any questions. Second, members should not engage in any exchanges when the House or a committee is in recess, as the audio continues to be live during that time. Finally, I note that the member for Columbia River– Revelstoke did use unparliamentary language during the recess. While the comment was unintended to be heard by others, it was, and the member should withdraw this remark. I call upon him now to do so.

Personal Statement WITHDRAW AL AND APOLOGY FOR COMMENTS MADE IN THE HOUSE D. Clovechok: Thank you, hon. Speaker. Y esterday I used intemperate language in this House. I’ d like to apolo- gize and withdraw them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2823

Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker: Members, I have the honour to table a report from the Representative of Children and Y outh entitled Skye’s Legacy: A Focus on Belonging. Petitions R. Merrifield: I would like to present a petition today on behalf of 4,500 parents of British Columbia students, representing all 60 school districts across the province. These parents are opposed to the current provincial health order in relation to mandatory masking of school children. They oppose the mandate for all children in grades 4 through 12 and do not support further measures to extend masking to lower grades.

The organization has an intention not to divide people. Instead, they simply want parents, children, people of B.C. to be able to retain their autonomous rights over the decisions surrounding their children. I will forward the petition to the Office of the Clerk on behalf of these parents. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call a continued estimates debate on the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recov- ery and Innovation. In

Section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates of the Ministry of Forest, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development. In the Birch Room, I call continued estimates for the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General. Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF JOBS, ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND INNOV ATION (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. The committee met at 11:02 a.m. The Chair: Members, I’ve been asked to call a five- minute recess so we can get things set up. The committee recessed from 11:03 a.m. to 11:08 a.m. [S.

Chandra Herbert in the chair.] On Vote 35: ministry operations, $78,648,000 (continued). T. Stone: This morning I’m going to focus on jobs, and then, if we have some time this afternoon, there are a few other topics that we can get into and carry over some jobs stuff if we don’t get it done this morning. [11:10 a.m.] My focus is really going to be on the most recent labour force survey numbers. Every month the numbers come out and reflect — not just for British Columbia but across Canada — the current labour force numbers.

The minister puts out a response or a statement on behalf of govern- ment, and the opposition does the same. I want to ask a few questions about the latest numbers. The first question would be with respect to labour under- utilization. The most recent unemployment rate for the province stands at 7 percent, but the labour underutiliza- tion rate stands at 10.5 percent.

Otherwise known as hidden unemployment, this is the percentage of the workforce that includes people that are unemployed and are contained within that 7 percent num- ber but also people, British Columbians, that are at a point where they’ve given up in searching for work as well as British Columbians who may be working — they may have been called back — but they’re working fewer hours and fewer shifts. They’re actually less employed than they were, perhaps, previously. With respect to the labour underutilization…. I just never hear the minister talk about it.

He always talks about the 7 percent unemployment number or the top-line num- ber, the 7 percent being the unemployment rate in these last labour survey results for May, which were released in early June. I’m just wondering why the minister ignores the labour utilization number. Inherent in that, again, is a heck of a lot of pain that British Columbians are experien- cing, whether it’s reflected through less shifts, less hours or reflected through the fact that they simply have given up because they can’t find a job. [11:15 a.m. - 11:20 a.m.] Hon. R. Kahlon: There are a few things I’ll touch on.

One, of course, it’s important to frame since it’s the first question of today, the labour force survey that the member is referring to — or he mentioned in his comment that he wanted to talk about the latest labour force survey — was taken during the circuit breaker period, in the middle of the third wave. I think it’s important for the member to know that cer- tainly we’re not dismissive of the pains and struggles of workers during a pandemic. We know that there has been a disproportionate impact.

In fact, the member will know that all the statements that I released from our ministry always highlights the disproportionate impact. Almost every single speech I’ve done since becoming minister has highlighted the fact that the impacts have been felt dispro- portionately by people and businesses. We know, certainly, in large numbers, that women were disproportionately impacted when the pandemic started. 2824 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

The gap has closed, but still some challenges remain. We know that new immigrants have had challenges. Y oung people have had challenges. People in the Black com- munity have had disproportionate impacts. Certainly we don’t ignore that. We comment on that almost in every press release. In every interview, whenever I’m asked, I talk about that.

I think that’s why we’re putting particular focus on skills training, because we know that we need to ensure that those that perhaps have left, that do maybe want to come back, have the skills and the training, re-skilling or upskilling of opportunities, so that they can participate in the workforce. The member will know recently we announced $45 mil- lion for a future leaders program.

A large portion of that was obviously for young people to get work opportunities; but $15 million to Innovate B.C., specifically to give opportunities for women and BIPOC youth to get an opportunity to enter the tech field and get their first tech job. My teammate, the parliamentary secretary, is doing excellent work on engaging and ensuring that that pro- gram is structured in a good way and is effective. But that’s just one sector. We’ve announced a whole host of skills training pro- grams in various sectors. I highlighted some yesterday for one of the opposition MLAs around manufacturing.

We know that’s going to be critically important for getting opportunities for those that are disproportionately impacted. I think it’s important to note that there are people that want to work in the tourism sector. They’re waiting for travel to begin, both internally and internationally. They’re going to look for opportunities to enter. Certainly since the restart plan, we know that more and more businesses are starting to hire. There are going to be opportunities. People who work in the hotel sector — I mean, that’s their job. They’re waiting to be recalled.

Cer- tainly, as we start seeing an increase in travel, which we will very soon, we’ll see some of those folks getting called back. Restaurants is another example where, during the cir- cuit breaker where this labour force survey was taken, you had workers that were working part-time but normally work there full-time. Because of the limitations of indoor dining or no indoor dining, when this survey was taken, their shifts were more of a part-time basis than a full-time basis. [11:25 a.m.] Just to say to the member, we certainly keep an eye on it. That’s why we put significant dollars in skills and train- ing.

That’s why it’s going to be a focus for us as we move forward. T. Stone: Well, back to my last question on labour underutilization. Does the minister believe that the labour underutilization rate or the hidden unemployment rate, which is inclusive of those captured in the top-line unem- ployment rate, plus inclusive of those who have fewer shifts and fewer hours, plus those that have given up look- ing for work, is a more accurate reflection of British Col- umbia’s labour force than purely looking at the top-line unemployment number?

In the interest of time and whatnot for the benefit of the minister, I just wanted to specifically reference the table that I’m actually referring to, if that’s helpful — make sure we’re all on the same page and the numbers we’re actually talking about. [11:30 a.m.] It’s table 14-10-0077-01 from StatsCan. Hopefully, that’s helpful. Hon. R. Kahlon: I think the member will know…. I’m not trying to take a jab at the 16 years, but within the years of the opposition being in government, they used the unemployment number all the way through.

Certainly, when the official opposition leader was the head of the jobs ministry, I know that that was the top line number that was used in all the press releases. I’m having staff just go back and look at the records to see how far back we can go to find where the numbers are used. Certainly, the hon. member will know that those are the numbers that the media use, all the other provinces use. But I think it’s important to state to the member that we don’t want anyone hidden in our job numbers from government — in the supports we provide.

What he’ll also note is that since becoming minister, we highlight BIPOC — so that’s Black, Indigenous, people of colour — employment numbers data in our releases. We highlight that because we know there’s a disproportionate impact there. So we highlight that there’s more need to support those communities. It’s reflected in many of the programs already that we’ve put in place. Launch online. We put a specific tar- get to ensure that more communities get access to those programs.

The tech program that the parliamentary sec- retary is working on has that lens, because we know that it’s great to have those jobs, but we need to have those that are more vulnerable getting an opportunity to enter a field that is going to play an important role in the eco- nomy going forward. We also know that minimum wage going up is going to have an impact, and it’s going to help bring some of those workers that perhaps are not sure about entering the work- force to enter the workforce. I think it’s also important to note that this pandemic has been a scary time.

There are people that, especially when we hear, now, about labour shortage…. We’ve dis- cussed some of the calls or some of the concerns that some in some sectors have raised. It’s going to be import- ant for us to continue to provide training opportunities — reskilling, upskilling opportunities — so that we can give Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2825

people good opportunities to get good-paying jobs. Cer- tainly, that will be our focus. We certainly don’t want to have anyone hidden. We are trying to find opportunities for everyone to succeed and, again, highlighting BIPOC data on our job summar- ies every month is a step in that direction. T. Stone: I certainly acknowledge that the BIPOC com- munity has been hit harder than other segments of the population through the pandemic, as have other groups of people — women, youth and others. My question, again, was about labour underutilization. For the record, and for the minister to consider, moving forward….

As important as highlighting specific data related to women and youth and the BIPOC community, I think it also makes a heck of a lot of sense, and it’s the right thing to do, to highlight the data that reflects just how much pain, broadly speaking, workers are feeling. [11:35 a.m.] That’s reflected through the labour utilization. That’s why it’s reported as a separate measure, in a separate table, in the StatsCan data. I would go further and say this.

The underutilization rate is important, because a range of subsidies — not the least of which is the Canada emergency wage subsidy, but other subsidies — will essentially, from a statistical per- spective, reflect that people are still on the payroll with a particular business. In reality, they’re on the payroll for far fewer shifts and far fewer hours, in most instances, than they otherwise would have been. In some cases, they’re receiving a subsidy, and they’re not doing any work at all. We all know that the subsidies aren’t sustainable. They’re not going to be in place forever.

The federal government has already mapped out a

schedule and a timeline for a slow and gradual reduction in the scope and scale of fed- eral subsidies, like the emergency wage subsidy. Again, underutilization kind of gets past that top-line number and actually captures people that statistically may show up as part of the workforce but are not working very much, because their hours or their shifts have been reduced. I really urge the minister…. As is the case with reporting out on BIPOC data, reporting out on women and youth, it’s also important to make sure that with the labour force data….

As we move forward and, hopefully, come out of this pandemic — the minister says all the time, and I say it, too: these are unprecedented times — it’s all the more reason that we ensure that we dive deep into these num- bers and understand exactly what’s going on, so that pro- grams and supports can continue to be tailored and fash- ioned to ensure that people don’t fall through the cracks. That’s what I’m getting at. The next is sort of in relation to this. I’ve mentioned women and youth. First, with respect to youth, the youth unemployment rate in this last round of numbers was, for May, 15.1 percent.

That’s not very good. That reflects a lot of youth that haven’t gotten back into the labour force, and lots that are really beginning to scramble and wondering what the heck they’re going to do in the sum- mer — particularly in terms of summer jobs, if they’re university students. Women have been significantly and very disproportion- ately impacted during this pandemic. This last round of labour force statistics reflects that women lost 17,000 jobs in May. To put a finer point on it, the subset of women that have been hardest impacted are young women.

Y oung women have the highest unemployment rate of any demo- graphic in the province at the moment, as 17.6 percent of young women are without work. There’s obviously a sig- nificant challenge that a lot of young British Columbians, particularly young women, are facing. The question to the minister is: where is the jobs plan for youth, for women and, in particular, for young women? [11:40 a.m. - 11:45 a.m.] Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you to the member for the question. We are very aware of the pain and struggles of many British Columbians, many people, workers you can say — the people.

Certainly the member knows, because he’s voted in favour of our $1.5 billion. It was comprehens- ive and a significant amount of supports targeted to com- munities that were disproportionately impacted. We had youth programs that were highlighted in the supports that we put forward. The member also knows that…. I want the member to know that data definitely informs the decisions that we’re making as a government. It’s reflected in the fact that we just launched a future lead- ers program of $45 million.

As I highlighted, just the tech portion of it, providing opportunities for tech but also providing opportunities for those that just graduated to be able to get an opportunity to get their first job. We know that there is a whole cohort of people that have kind of fallen in that trap between graduation and finding an opportunity to get their first employment opportunity. We’re hiring people to work to clean our coasts, to work in our parks, forestry-related jobs.

Of course, significant investments we’ve made, part of StrongerBC, and announcements that we just made recently regarding skills training and ensuring that the communities that are dis- proportionately impacted, as the member has highlighted and certainly I have been highlighting, have an opportun- ity to get those skills and re-skill and upskill to get better paying jobs as we come out. The member will also know that we need to focus on the care economy, and certainly that’s some of the work we’ve been doing. When you see the significant hiring of care aides and employees in the health care system….

I know that sometimes the rhetoric is about public and private. That’s disproportionately hiring women in those employ- ment opportunities; often much higher-paying jobs than they would get in the private sector. Just to summarize. I appreciate the member’s com- 2826 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

ments. We do look at the data in detail to see where the needs are, where the programs can be. Again, skills and training is going to be critically important as we go for- ward. I actually really appreciate the thoughtfulness of the member’s question. T. Stone: I think there’s an acknowledgment, likely by every member in this House, that a lot of British Columbi- ans have been hit hard through the pandemic, some much more impacted than others. I think we can all acknow- ledge that women and youth, the BIPOC community, among others, have been hit harder than others.

This is why I think a plan is needed — a focused plan. A jobs plan for women and youth. Two separate plans, per- haps. But a focused, deliberative plan. I appreciate the minister referencing, “we did this over here” and “we’re aware of this over here” and so forth. There is no cohesive, coordinated plan, unless he can point me to one. The difference between a patchwork system and a more siloed approach — which is what I hear from the minister’s comments — and a plan is that the plan actually has targets. It’s got dates. It’s got actions and measurement of results.

I would suggest that when we have 17,000 fewer women working in May than the month previous, when we have the women’s unemployment rate higher than the unem- ployment rate for men, when we have a young women unemployment rate of 17.6 percent, the highest of all demographics, a focused plan, again, with targets, dates, actions and the measurement of results, is required. [11:50 a.m.] I would ask the minister that if such a plan actually exists, if he could point me to where it is.

If it doesn’t exist in that focused manner, is work underway to pull a jobs plan together for women and youth to really target meas- ures to ensure that women and youth can get back into the workforce? Hon. R. Kahlon: I think, first, I just want to, again, highlight that the job numbers that we’re talking about…. For those that are watching virtually from all over the world, I just want them to know that the numbers are from the middle of the third wave, while we were under the cir- cuit breaker.

Significant restrictions were put in place on people’s mobility and significant restrictions on in-person dining, which had significant impacts on the economy. I think it’s important for people to know those are the num- bers. I’ve already highlighted to the member that we do watch the data very carefully. The member should know that we have a plan, which is called StrongerBC, which is signific- ant supports for youth, for women, supporting the Indi- genous community — supporting all the sectors that were struggling the most during the pandemic, informed by the data. That’s how we came to the program.

It was very well received. It continues to be well received. We continue to provide supports and adjust our programming according to the needs, as they change, as the pandemic changes. Our focus now is the restart plan. Of course, we want to start looking at where the economy is going in the next five, ten years and how we ensure that everyone has the opportunity to succeed. We, on this side of the House, are certainly very proud of the work we’re doing for child care. We know that that’s going to play an important role in ensuring a just recovery.

It’s certainly something that’s on my mind — how we ensure that in the economic recovery that we are able to build the housing we need, build the child care we need, provide all the critical supports that are needed for people to see the benefits of a recovery. Those are things that are top of mind for us. There will be more to say on that in the fall. So the member can stay tuned to that. Again, I appreciate the focus in this period on some of those that are hardest hit by this pandemic. I appreciate the questions from the hon. member across the way. With that, hon.

Chair, I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again. Motion approved. The committee rose at 11:54 a.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again. Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House. Motion approved. Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:55 a.m. Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FORESTS, LANDS, NATURAL RESOURCE OPERATIONS AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (continued) Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2827

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); R. Leonard in the chair. The committee met at 11:13 a.m. On Vote 30: ministry operations, $517,715,000 (continued). Hon. K. Conroy: I just want to clarify for the member opposite that I will be providing any response in writing, because the member has asked me to. As well, just to clarify for members listening that had thought we were moving on Columbia River treaty ques- tions this morning, we won’t be. The member opposite will be providing questions in writing this afternoon as far as it pertains to Columbia River treaty or Columbia Basin Trust.

I just want to make sure that’s accurate so that all the folks that are standing by to answer questions around all things Columbia know they can stand down. [11:15 a.m.] J. Rustad: I appreciate having staff available, but we will have questions that will be submitted in writing in the afternoon. We’ve got a number of MLAs who want to participate in estimates. I’m just checking to see if the folks that are up are on screen. I see that the member for Peace River South is up, so I’ d like to call on him at this point to ask a question. M. Bernier: My apologies for not being there in person.

This is an important topic. But I’m just going to quickly…. I only have one question, because we want to move things along well. But I have one question for the minister. First, I want to just put on the record that I have an immense amount of respect for this minister and hope that she’ll take into consideration the comments and the ques- tions that I have today as being a sincere plea for her to do the right thing. As the minister knows, up in my area, there was an agreement that was made to move forward to try to protect caribou.

I don’t think there’s any surprise that this will be the tone and theme of my question today for the minister. The Premier came up to my riding and said: “Don’t worry. We’ll make sure that there are socioeconomic impact stud- ies done.

We’ll make sure that the local governments will be involved, stakeholders will be involved in any work that needs to be done before any decisions are made by govern- ment around back-country closures in order to protect the caribou habitat. ” Now, let me go on the record again by saying that every single group and stakeholder that I’ve met with is all in agreement that we need to all work collectively and to do our part to protect our back-country ungulates, spe- cifically in this case, our caribou herds — which, by the way, are increasing, in part because of the continuation of predator management that this government is following through with, which I thank them for.

But I want to just highlight for the minister quickly that there is a lot of angst, a lot of frustration, a lot of anger, actually, by people in the area that the Premier came up and announced that we would work together and that that actually didn’t happen — that people weren’t taken seri- ously and people were not acknowledged for their input. I just want to read into the record, for instance, one group that has just spent the last 18 months working with the ministry staff to try to find an arrangement for back-country closures that people could live with. This is from the B.C. Snowmobile Federation.

I want to read a quote in here quickly, and then I’ll ask the question on behalf of them. “We want to recover caribou and believe that our recommenda- tions that we made to the province were thoughtful and supported the objectives given to us. Our report recommended the closure of 75 percent of the intensive-use habitat in the snowmobile riding areas. We did not make recommendations that were unreasonable.

They were educated, and we spent almost 500 hours of work and on Zoom calls with provincial staff to come to these objectives. “With 2.5 million hectares in available habitat for 300 animals, we share some of those same areas, and small concessions would need to be made. The snowmobile represents 25 percent of the available land, and out of that, only 5 percent is actually high-qual- ity snowmobile areas. ” The closures that the government is proposing now get rid of all of that — all of that 5 percent of high snowmobile areas. “From a political standpoint, we are shocked.

We made aggress- ive recommendations that we were prepared to publicly back up with the province. We would have had some backlash from the ridership, but we felt that it was the right thing to do and that our riders would have respected it, knowing we spent so much time to come to this agreement. Instead, the province listened to zero, none, of our recommendations after 500 hours of working with them. The province has now alienated the B.C.

Snowmobile Fed- eration from all of this work and from the successful planning we thought we were doing to date. ” Then it goes on about how they feel that they were involved with “a nightmare process, ” completely against what the province and the Premier promised would hap- pen in my region. [11:20 a.m.] So my question, I guess, really, to the minister…. I hope she’ll do the right thing. I want the minister to acknow- ledge that the Premier promised that we would be listened to, and that hasn’t happened.

The last minister before this one made similar promises and never even came to the riding and never even spoke once to anybody in this region publicly. Will the minister consider putting on hold any final decision until a socioeconomic impact study is done in my region, until all stakeholders have been considered and listened to and acknowledged, rather than what the government and the ministry has just announced? That is: “Now we’re just going to a six-week public consulta- tion period. ” 2828 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

The Snowmobile Federation is up in arms and upset, as is everybody in my region, that they weren’t listened to. The email response I got back from the ministry was: “Don’t worry. If they weren’t listened to in that 500 hours, they still have six weeks to put forward their comments in the public consultation period. ” People have given up. They don’t feel like they’re listened to anymore. What will this minister do to acknowledge the people in this area before a final decision is made, so we can actually work together to solve the issue? It’s some- thing that this government continues to try to advocate for.

Here’s their opportunity to do that. [11:25 a.m. - 11:30 a.m.] Hon. K. Conroy: I appreciate the question from the member. I’ve travelled up there, and I know the passion of people in that area around outdoor activities. Just to be clear, we have met in the past 18 months, and we have included feedback from various stakeholders. The problem is the caribou habitat does overlap those high- valued snowmobiling areas that the member has refer- enced. We need to recognize those issues. It’s been scien- tifically documented.

We also need to recover caribou, and that’s why we are proposing these restrictions as a draft and seeking feed- back. He’s right. The caribou population is increasing, but it’s just under 300 in the South Peace, which is quite far from the thousands that used to roam the area, and it still is far, far away from recovery. In answer to the member’s direct question, yes, we are going to undertake a socioeconomic analysis.

The staff from the resource stewardship division have met with the regional district representatives of both regional districts, local government representatives and stakeholders, including the snowmobilers. They have actually taken all the input they got from them to develop the draft plan and then have met with them again just recently. Then we’re in the process of hiring a contractor who is going to under- take the impact analysis of winterized motorized recre- ation. We are providing the funding for that. Again, they did take all of the information that they’ d gotten.

They put this draft report out to make sure that everybody had an opportunity to look at it. They’ve heard the concerns around timing with the snowmobilers asso- ciation, so they’ve reached out with them, and they com- mitted to checking in with them partway through the time frame for the people to provide input into the report. In fact, it just so happens that their meeting is actually scheduled for tonight, when they are checking in with the snowmobiler club to just do a brief analysis of the informa- tion that the ministry has gotten to date on input about the plan.

That’s input from all stakeholders that are involved in the area. Then they’re going to talk to the snowmobilers tonight about the information they have received, just to make sure they are getting all the information. Again, it’s showing them the draft, making sure that they’ve got that information, and then they’ll go from there once they have all that input and determine if they need more time. But definitely, doing the socioeconomic analysis that the member and the club has asked for. That work is getting started as we speak. [11:35 a.m.] G.

Kyllo: I certainly appreciate the opportunity to canvass a number of questions for the minister. We’ve been actually trying to set up a meeting directly with the minister for close to two months now. I’ d certainly hoped to have the opportunity to provide some answers and clarity for some of my constituents prior to now. But in any event, I do appreciate our critic for providing me an opportunity now. Starting first with a water application. This is for a res- ident, a constituent of mine from the community of Sey- mour Arm. It’s a seasonal community.

He’s trying to get a permit number for his residence, actually, in the com- munity of Salmon Arm. I’ll just quote a letter that was actually recently sent. This was from FrontCounter B.C. in response to my constituent. It says: “Thank you for your recent inquiry about water licence application 100311476 that you submitted on March 25, 2020. ” Now, this letter was dated May 26 of this year. So on May 26 of this year, they sent a letter acknow- ledging the receipt of the application from last March.

The letter goes on to say: “Y our application is currently under review and has not been assigned to a natural resources specialist yet. ” Here we are 14 months since they submitted their application, and it’s yet to actually be even looked at by a resource specialist. The letter goes on to state: “Currently FCBC is experi- encing a very high volume of applications, and we’re pri- oritizing based on safety, environment, economic develop- ment and recovery.

Y our file has been appropriately pri- oritized based on these, and at this time, you can expect approximately a one- to two-year time frame. ” Can the minister provide any clarity that she feels that an application that has already been accepted by Front- Counter B.C. over a year ago…? Is it appropriate or accept- able that this constituent will now have to face an addition- al one to two years before receiving an answer to this very important question? [11:40 a.m.] Hon. K.

Conroy: I want to thank the member for rais- ing this issue. [11:45 a.m.] I think he’s well aware — he knows the area very well — that this is one of our areas that has some of the greatest economic activity happening in it, as well as things like there is considerable flooding over the last three or five years. It’s been quite substantial, which has also contrib- uted to the backlogs. It doesn’t make it…. I’m not justify- ing it. That’s not a good rationale. Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2829

To that end, we have gone to Treasury Board, and we were successful in securing additional dollars, $3.8 mil- lion. It was specifically to deal with the backlog in the Thompson-Okanagan region. So we are increasing the number of people doing the permitting. We are actually getting mentors, people that are experienced in permit- ting, to train the new people working, because that’s really important to make sure that they understand that. We’re actually hiring 20 new staff to work just in Thompson- Okanagan, which is going to significantly help it.

I just wanted to make sure that the member knows that, because of my schedule, the staff always look at the requests for meetings, and when it looks like it’s a real spe- cific issue, like this one, they refer it directly to the staff to deal with. We don’t want to take time trying to meet with me when we’re going to get staff to help with the issue. I know that the member has met with staff in the region. But I will give the notice to the ADM to also reach out to help the member to deal with this specific issue in response to a specific constituent. I thank the member for the question. Noting the hour, hon.

Chair, I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again. Motion approved. The committee rose at 11:47 a.m. Proceedings in the Birch Room Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND SOLICITOR GENERAL (continued) The House in Committee of Supply (Section C); D. Coulter in the chair. The committee met at 11:11 a.m. On Vote 39: ministry operations, $849,613,000 (continued). M. Morris: I just have a couple of follow-ups from our session yesterday before I get into some questions here.

I will, just for the minister’s information, probably carry on with the policing side of things for at least another couple of hours. Just so that your staff knows. With respect to yesterday’s discussion, the minister advised that there were 2,602 positions up to the author- ized strength in British Columbia, with 192 unfilled vacan- cies. Now, I guess I just want clarification on those vacan- cies. Are those positions encumbered? Are they attached to a collater number, or are they 192 vacancies that are available for whatever the ministry sees fit? Hon. M.

Farnworth: It would be both categories the member has raised that those 192 positions could be dis- tributed to. So both, I guess, encumbered and not encumbered. M. Morris: I wonder if the minister can give me any numbers. How many of those positions would be unen- cumbered at this present time? [11:15 a.m.] Hon. M. Farnworth: We don’t have a specific number. Part of that is in terms of how resources are deployed. We’re working with the RCMP to determine exactly, encumbered or unencumbered, what the nature of those vacancies is.

Some of them are in fact occupied currently by municipal employees, our municipal secondments. We’re working with the RCMP , and we should be able to have a much better understanding, a more accurate figure, later this year. M. Morris: I guess what I’m getting at is…. So there still may be a number of unfettered positions, unencumbered positions that the minister would have available in negoti- ations with the RCMP to address some of your priorities that are outlined in your mandate letter, or whatever the case might be. Is there room there to manoeuvre? Hon. M. Farnworth: The answer is yes. M.

Morris: Good to hear. Thank you, Minister. Administration of justice offences have increased by 20 percent between 2018 and 2019 — and most likely more in 2020 because of COVID. It’s a frustrating situation for police agencies. I hear from a lot of members around the province about the revolving door attributed to consent releases. The repetitive cases take up considerable police time and resources but also present a continued threat to the public with prolific offenders always at large. Does the minister have a plan to reduce this drain on police resources and public safety? [11:20 a.m.] Hon. M.

Farnworth: The member raises, I think, a very good point, and one that is absolutely right. That does — prolific offenders, in particular — create a drain on police resources. Police are aware of it. We are aware of the issue. It’s one of the reasons why police target prolific offenders and want to build as strong a case against them as possible, either to ensure that they get a longer sentence or enough conditions on them that they’re not able to be doing what they were doing.

A big chunk of that, as the member no doubt is aware, rests with the court system, the prosecutorial system, with- 2830 British Columbia Debates Thursday, June 10, 2021

in the Attorney General’s ministry. But it is something that we are very much aware of. I share his concern, along with the police departments right around the province. It is something that, as I said, police try to build as strong a case as possible to ensure that these individuals are not able to be as prolific as they have been. So that’s the answer I can give you. M. Morris: So it provides them an opportunity to become a little bit less prolific.

As the minister alluded to, the Attorney General’s prosecution service adopted a more lenient process, in many views, of consent releases for persons under remand, awaiting trials and disposition. I’m sure this was in response to B.C. Corrections’ COVID capacity as well. Have the police seen an increase in administration of justice offences involving individuals violating the terms of their consent release? Hon. M. Farnworth: We don’t have any stats at this point on that, but we are more than willing, once we do, to get back to you with what stats we are able to.

When we have some, we will get back to you on that. M. Morris: I’ll probably have a few more questions around that issue, but it’ll be more related to Corrections, when we get into the Corrections side of things as well. Turning now to addressing serious crime in B.C. com- munities. I’m referencing your mandate letter on cracking down on those who distribute toxic drugs on the streets. Opiate deaths have increased dramatically since the Minis- ter’s mandate letter was signed.

I’ d just asking if the Minis- ter can describe how he’s cracked down on those who dis- tribute toxic drugs on the street. [11:25 a.m.] Hon. M. Farnworth: There are a number of initiatives that we’ve undertaken to deal with that particular issue. I know the member is aware about PTEP . They received $5.6 million in funding, which is going to do just that. Inter- diction has had considerable success. We have brought in legislative initiatives — as you are aware, the witness secur- ity program — again, to build stronger cases to get the information to be able to bust gangs involved with drug trafficking.

We brought in other legislative measures to do just that. There has been the $90 million overall funding, which again funds the initiatives that are underway in govern- ment. We put in place that additional as part of the overall opioid strategy. The $30 million in there went to policing, specifically to deal with the interdiction, particularly at that mid-level drug trafficking gang range. All of those things combined, I think…. We have seen some significant results from that.

In fact, over the last, I think, six weeks, we saw the elimination of a major fentanyl production facility in my own area in the Tri- Cities. Police have just announced a significant bust of fentanyl that was front page on the news in terms of dis- rupting of gang activities. There is a significant amount of work that has been underway and initiatives undertaken by government to do the interdiction of illegal substances. M. Morris: I do hear, the odd time, of the various seizures, particularly around fentanyl, which I think is probably the scourge of the earth right now here in British Columbia.

I was listening to my colleague from the Green Party’s comments yesterday on police charging individuals with simple possession and the efforts by the current govern- ment to decriminalize small amounts of drugs. I guess one of the things I should make clear is that the police haven’t charged anybody with anything in this province for dec- ades now because of the Crown Counsel Act, 1974, that took that opportunity away from police. So the police will investigate, recommend charges. It goes to Crown counsel, and they’re the ones that determine whether these charges will be laid.

I’m just looking at the 2019 stats from the B.C. Stats area here. It does show an increase in non-heroin opioids, which I’m assuming that fentanyl will fall under. I see that possession cases…. In 2019, there were 379. That’s up from 253 in 2018 and, of course, up from only 34 in 2017. So there has been some obvious action there.

Trafficking has gone from 135 in 2017 to 310 in 2018 and to 453 in 2019. [11:30 a.m.] I’m wondering, looking at these stats, how many of these possession charges that show up here, not only in this category but all the other categories of drugs, have been reduced by plea bargaining, from trafficking cases to possession cases, to avoid a trial or whatever the case might be. Does the RCMP or do any of the police forces maintain any statistical data on that? Hon. M. Farnworth:We don’t have and the RCMP does not have stats on how often that happens. It may happen.

I can tell you my own expectation, particularly when we’re seeing gang activity charges, is that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law possible. M. Morris: With my experience, that has been definitely the case. I’ve got police officers in the family involved in CFSEU and drug enforcement and interdiction, and very seldom is there a possession charge recommended to Crown counsel for processing. It’s mostly around traffick- ing and whatnot. But I am curious as to the extent that that might take place down the line that might obscure the res- ults that we’re seeing in the statistical data here.

With respect to opioid deaths and the minister’s man- date letter, I’m wondering whether the police have reques- ted additional resources for CFSEU or other specialized units to combat opioid deaths and toxic drugs. Thursday, June 10, 2021 British Columbia Debates 2831

Hon. M. Farnworth: The answer is no. M. Morris: Well, we’ll leave the operations of the police up to the police. Do the police know where the precursors to fentanyl originate and what steps have been taken to mitigate those sources? And has the minister provided any additional resources to police to address this critical area? Hon. M. Farnworth: I’ll make a couple of observations. One is that police in the province work very closely with the federal RCMP .

CFSEU has been focused on the situ- ation locally on the ground — so in terms of, as I said, the lab that was busted — but also going after the precursors here when they can. They are funded to do that. [11:35 a.m.] At the same time, we know that many of the precursors come from out of British Columbia, outside of Canada, primarily China, as well as Mexico. The federal-level RCMP are focused very much on interdicting shipments coming from those jurisdictions.

There’s significant cooperation between the provincial RCMP police forces and their federal counterparts in terms of the interdiction and locally, also, on busting the gangs and the labs. M. Morris: Thank you for the answer, Minister. I do recall that a few years ago there was some kind of an agree- ment that the RCMP had with officials in China for collab- oration and investigational purpo

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20210610am-Hansard-n90
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20210610am Hansard n90
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	8e364305a2dccba29d4ffa83a704915454ba1086

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