Volume 3 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 3rd. Session VERBATIM REPORT MONDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1974 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 17

February 25, 1974, Tape 425, Page 1 -- apb The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! I would like to welcome all visitors to the gallery today but especially I would like to welcome twenty-two short-hand typing students from Seal Cove Vocation School, Seal Cove, with their teacher,Mrs. Harbin. I trust that your visit here is most interesting and informative. MR. F.B.ROWE: Mr.

Speaker, I rise on a point of privilege, Sir, arising out of a story published in the "Evening Telegram," the weakend edition of the "Evening Telegram." Sir, I wish to,if I may, read that particular news story and then relate to it. "Transportation and Communications Minister, Tom Hickey, says: 'Charges by opposition members that highway and snow clearing equipment on the Great Northern Peninsula is inadequate and in poor working condition are unfounded and unjustified.' Mr.

Hickey said that the policy of his department is to take equipment off the high­ roads when operators cannot see what they are doing or when equi9ment cannot cope with prevelant weather. He said this policy is not only for the safety of the operators but also for the public. "The minister noted that since the pr_e·sent government assumed office two years ago, the amount of money allocated for equipment for snow clearing operations has almost tripled from the previous administration. He said the first year the P.C's. were in power they allocated $2 million and $2.5 million the following year.

He said, referring to Mr. Hlckey, that the figure this year is expected to be another $2.5 million. He said that the most the Liberals ever allocated for snow clearing was $1 million." Now, Sir, if you look at the public accounts for 1970 - 1971, under winter maintenance - MR. SPEAKER:· Order please: HON. W.W.MARSHALL (Minister without Portfolio): Your honour, I cannot get the point. If the honourable member would state his point of privilege- 1369

February 25, 1974 • Tape 426 IB-1 He is reading a newspaper report and disputes between two members as to allocations of facts and an attack on the newspaper, etc. - I refer you to page 19. Mr. Speaker, lf he has a genuine point of privilege by all means proceed with it. MR. F. ROWE: Yes, I do have a genuine point of privilege. MR. MARSHALL: He should at least state the nature of the point of privilege before he goes into details. MR. F. ROWE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, the honourable the House teader's point is well taken. I am coming to the point of privilege of the House, Sir.

In 1970-1971 the winter maintenance estimates were $4.4 million and the winter maintenace of equipment was just over $2, million which totals $6.5 million, Sir, 1970-1971. In 1972 these two,total winter maintenance, came to $5.5 million at;td the winter maintenance of equipment came to just over $2 million for a total of $7.5 million. Sir, in 1972, the first year of this present administration, the winter maintenance programme came to $4.5 million and the winter maintenance of equipment came to $1.9 million for an approximate total of $6.5 million.

Sir, if the minister is quoted correctly, it is totally false, Sir, and I ask the minister to rise·and apologize to this House and to the people of Newfoundland and to the people of the Northern Peninsula in particular for this inaccuracy. • MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! l · feel that the statement as just made by the honourable member for St. Barbe North is not a point of privilege at all and I refer him to Beauchesne, page 96, Standing Order 105, Suhsection 3.

The last paragraph of that states; · "A dispute arising between PJO honourable members as to allo.cations of facts hardly fulfills the conditions of a privileged question. ..... If deemed to be a matter to be at once entertained, it is more convenient to postpone other business rather ttan extend the area of privilege." So I suhmit that it was a difference of opinion as regard to facts and not really a point of privilege. 1370

February 25, 1974 • Tape 426 . IB-~ MR. T.P. HICKEY (MINISTER OF TRANSPORTATION): Mr. Speaker. I think I should rise on a point of privilege in relation to the same matter. AN HON°0URARLE MEMBE~: The Speaker has made a ruling. MR. SPEAKEF: Order, please! I have made my ruling re that point of privilege and unless the honourable Minister of Transportation is rising on another point of privilege, I think the matter should end here. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of personal privilege.

The ' information that the honourable member read out in terms of winter maintenance has nothing to do with the figures that I quoted as given · me by my staff in relation to new equipment, money spent for purchase of equipment each year. That is the point, Sir. That is the only point I made and that is the point I am making now. MR. W. ROWE: I wonder if I may be heard, Sir. Well, my point of order is that the honourable minister is obviously appealing Your Honour's ruling and I would say that there is a well-known procedure for doing that, not merely standing in your place and talking for a half of an hour.

If he want to appeal Your Honour's ruling, let him make the proper procedures. MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I am not appealing Your Honour's ruling. I am not appealin~ Your Honour's ruling at all. I am merely clarifying the information as given by the honourable member. The honourable member asked me to apologize to the House. I have no reason to do so. The information he has given is incorrect, not mine. MR. SPEAKER: The same

section of Beauchesne which I just quoted to the honourable member for St. Barbe North I am sure pretty well applies to the honourable ~inister of Transportation and Commt.mications. It is really not a matter of personal privilege nor privilege, it is a difference of opinion between alleged facts as obviously given in a newspaper

article on the weekend. PETITIONS: MR. F.VANS: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave of the House to introduce a petition 1371

February 25, 1974 • Tape 426 on behalf of 155 fishermen from Margaree to Rose Blanche in my district of Burgeo and La Poile. The prayer of this pet~Uon is that gill netting be outlawed completely on the Southwest and the West Coast of our province. We have had experience enough - I had personally, back forty years ago,to see what gill netting dici IB=3 in Fortune Bay. Last year, in just one year, that cleaned up every fish was on the edge over in Sydney Bight. Orte boat fr0m Nova Scotia fished in Bay St. George and it was no troQble to notice and appreciate the difference in the fishing there. Now, I hope no one gets the impression that I am trying to make an imposition on our 1372

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 427 Page 1 ·- MW Provincial ?tl.nister of Fisheries because as everyone k;nows that is in the realm of the Federal Government,-administered by Jack Davis. Federal Minister in Ottawa. I have already contacted the Federal Department of Fisheries on this matter. I would suggest that since Mr. Davis has made so many enemies in the fisheries by acts that have been of no benefit to the fisheries in the long term that it would probably be all right if he made a few enemie  by doing something useful for a change. Mr.

Speaker, I would s~y that this is another carry-over from the former administration in giving the bounties for gill nets - that is saying that we bum our boats,but for forty people to burn them. I refer this to the department to which this belongs. MR. A. DUNPHY: Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition so ably presented by the Member from Burgeo on behalf of the people of the Rose Blanche, Margaree Area, the southwest and west coast of the island here. I can certainly appreciate the feeling of the fishermen in that area by having gill nets used in that area and particularly in the Bay St. George Area.

I think the gentleman from Burgeo makes much sense when he wishes, on behalf of his people, to have these gill nets condemned because over the years they have been deterimental to the fishery in many, many area. Fish have rotted in the nylon. Fish have been there for days and da:isbefore weather permitted them to get the fish and it was far from being in good condition. Generally speaking, it has created chaos with operators and processor• everywhere along the coast.

I certainly go along with this petition and hope somehow through our own Minister of Fisheries that this message can reach the proper authorities in Ottawa and something be done about it. I take great pleasure in supporting that petition, Sir. 137J . . . . - .

February 2s. 1974 Tape no. 427 Page Mil. F. B. llOWE: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition OD behalf of over 550 fishermen from twenty-two COllllllWlities in the Diatrlct of St. Barbe Horth. Mr. Speaker. actually there are two communities included from the District of St. Barbe South which contains fishermen who do fish in the St. John's Bay Area. Sir, the prayer of. the petition reads as follows: 2 '°We the fishermen from the Northwest Coast and especially from your riding of St.

Barbe Horth request your assistance to intereede on our behalf to both the Provincial and Federal Department of Fisheries· to have the area from La Fontaine to Cape Norman closed to all seiners." "Iha, 1• herring seiners, Sir. •we emphasize the St. John's Bay Area which is a breeding ground for herring. "At preaent there is a fleet of seiners in the bay," ~ .. . .. :,.... (Sir, this obviously was written during the fall herring fishery.

I just received the petition this morning.)"and we feel that as well as depleting the herring in the area and damaging many lobsters, they have also caused us to loae very valuable dollars by having in some areu to take our gear from the waters for fear of having it destrayed by the present seiners." Now, Sir, in speaking in support of this particular petition, I might add that the fishermen in these twenty-two communities are inshore fishermen and they are extremely concerned over the interference or influence of the herring seiner fisheries on the inshore herring fishery as well as other species.

Sir. these fishermen are extremely reasonable people. 'they realize that many fisbenaen are employed on the herring seiners 1374

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 428 NH - 1 and they also realize, Sir, that many people are employed in herring plants, further to the south. But, Sir, I am told that if the present situation continues, if the herring seiners are allowed to fish inside of the St. John Bay Area, that the herring fishery will be wiped out altogether.

Sir, I am also told that there are a great number of tons of small herring caught in a small mesh size seiner,that are brought aboard the seiner and are actually dumped back in the bay because they are too small for processing and that, Sir, this will cause extreme damage to the lobster fishery since this herring will rot on the bottom and pollute and contaminate the water and the fishermen are very fearful of the loss of the lobster fishery as well as the herring fishery through depletion.

Sir, another point that the inshore fishermen have brought to my attention on a recent visit to the district is that they feel that the herring fishery has been depleted in the Bonne Bay Area and in the Port Sau~ders Area because of the over-activity of the herring seiner fisheries. Now, Sir, my own personal word; I am not suggesting for one minute that the herring seiner fishery be wi~ed out. I think boundaries can be drawn to the mutual benefit of the inshore .fisheries and the herring seiner fisheries.

So, Sir, I ask that the honourable the Minister of Fisheries bring this matter up with the federal authorities and try to determine some kind of a formula whereby the inshore fishery can co-exist with the herring seiner fisheries,because both of these types of fisheries do bring great benefits to not only the people in the District of St. Barbe North but also to the economy of the province as a whole. So, Sir, I ask that this petition be pliu:ed '· ea t.bav~le of the House and referred to the department to which it relates. MR. F. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition from the resid~nts of St.

Brides on the Cape Shore. The prayer of the petition is twofold. First the petitions request an immediate upgrading 1375

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 428 NM - 2 and eventual paving of the Cape Shore Road, particularly from Point Verde to St. Brides and indeed Branch. This particular piece of highway from Point Verde to St. Brides is approximately twenty miles. It is the only piece of road on the Avalon Peninsula, Mr. Speaker, that has not been attended to in the past ten or fifteen years. In fact this particular piece of highroad has had no actual construction work of a substantial nature done since 1949.

In fact every dollar spent on this road was spent by the Department of Highways by their maintenance unit and as any member who is aware of road construction and what is involved can · certainly appreciate that it is impossible to expect this particular piece of road to be improved while the only money !pent on it are from maintenance. Some of their petitions have been presented to the House before. The . present Minister of transporta~ion and Communications, at my request, accompanied me over this road last fall. He met with the Community Council at St.

Brides and other representatives of the various communities from Point Verde to St. Brides and he indicated to the residents of this shore that something would be done on this particular road this year. Also, Mr. Speaker, I had his.predecessor, now President of the Council,visit the area with me and his then Deputy vbo 1376

February 25, 1974 ~ape 429 PK - 1 is now retired. So the officials of the Department of Highways as well as the present minister and indeed I am sure the gov~rnment must be aware of the desperate plight of the people living on this shore. So the main concern of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is the road up the Cape Shore and in addition the paving of the road within the Community of St. Brides itself . Reference is made in the prayer of the petition to the recent agreement made by the province with DREE whereby certain funds it is anticipated will be available for improvements in communities similar to that of St.

Brides. The petitioners point out that the conditions in the co11111unity in the summer are desperate because of the prevalence of dust. The women find it practically impossible to keep their wash clean. They hang it out on any fine day in the summer, when they take it in it is as bad as when they put it out because of the dust which is stirred up by' the traffic i~ the co111I11unity. This petition, Mr. Speaker, comes to me from Sister Patricia King, one of the sisters at the convent in St.

Brides,so 1 doubt whether any prayer of any petitioner has every been presented to this House from such a person so capable of praying. I sincerely trust that the prayer of this petitioner as well as all the other individuals who signed the petition will obtain favourable response,first with respect to the road on the Cape Shore itself 1and secondly, that funds will be made available to pave the road in the Co111111unity of St, Brides itself. In addition, Mr.

Speaker, I may say that this road up the Cape Shore I feel would be a wonderful contribution to the Tourist Industry in that anyone who is familiar with the excellent bird sanctuary on the Cape Shore - people visiting the province,and they come from all over the world really,to see this renowned sanctuary they find it necessary to travel this road, In addition, to accommodating the residents of the area who use it to transport fish. it is used to bring patients to and from hospital in Placentia and generally for trade and commerce as well as ordinary means of transportation. 1377

. '• February 25, 1974 • Tape 429 PK - 2 . So, Mr. Speaker, again I beg leave to place this petition on the table of the House and ask that it be referred to the department to which i't relates. I sincerely trust this petition will at this time bear fruit in the funds that will be made available to upgrade the road from Point Verde to St. Brides and as well funds to pave the roads within the Community of St. Brides itself. MR. SPEAXER: The honourable the MembeT for Bell Island. Ml.. S.A. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, 'IDlilre things are wrought by pray than this world dreams of.

Well, Sir, I hope that the good sister who waa relipoDaible for c:irculating thi's petition does not lose her faith while •he is waiting for this government to upgrade and pa~e that road on the Cape Shore. It is not the first time, Sir, aa the honourable the Member for Placentia East pointed out.that a simil4r petition was presented in this honourable House. I am told, Mr. Speaker, that in the last two years that road has deteriorated considerably. Now it was never 1378

February 25, 1974. Tape 430 RH - l' the best, Sir. It is probably the worst piece of road in Newfoundland, bar none, including the road down in the honourable member's district of Labrador South from L'Anse-au-Clair to Red Bay. t·would almost venture,at best, Sir, that it is even worse than that.

It is certainly, Sir, the worst stretch of road on the Island · part of our Province, I hope that as a result of the plea and the appeal and the begging and the badgering of the honourable member for Placentia East that this Government, Sir, that can spend $1.8 million of the taxpayers money on booze parties and flags and - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The honourable member for Bell Island is not now being relevant to the prayer of the petition, MR.

NEARY: Sir, I sincerely hope that a government that can spend $1.8 million on a silver anniversary celebration will be able to find a few pa~try dollars to take some of the dangerous curves out of that piece of road,to upgrade it and to throw down a bit of pavement on the Cape Shore,and this would be the first time in the history of Newfoundland that the residents of the Cape Shore would have any pavingtto my knowledge. I think that is correct. Is that not correct? They do not have an inch of paving on the Cape Shore yet, to my knowledge. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

NEARY: Sir, I am told that the equipment, I am told that the equipment down there has deteriorated in the last two years and the road is in worse condition now than it has ever been in. I hope, Sir, that the Minister of Finance, although we have already had a hint of a tax increase this year, that the Minister of Finance will be able to find a few dollars; supposing he has to steal it away from Nutbeam,to try to do something with that road down on the Cape Shore. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Social Services. HON. A. J. MURPHY (Minister of Social Services): Mr.

Speaker, I think I would be remiss in not standing to support this. I have been doing it since 1962. I can see the honourable Dr. Frecker here,who was member for that district, almost getting on his knees for a great number of· years, pleading 1379

February 25, 1974. Tape 430 RH - 2 for something for that district. Also the member for St.

Mary's at the time when there was not one inch, not one inch of pavement, Sir, and to hear this great plea now from the other side, you know, perhaps it is for the joke page of the papers rather than anything else but driving over that road, Sir, in itself is an adventure I would say rather than an experience because I have done it for many years down there and I feel sure, Sir, if ever there was a chance to get that ~one, it is now when we have a good aensible government . who will look after the interests of the people, So, I heartily support, Sir, that petition, notwithstandinR the good Sister who was there.

She must have been the guardian angel for many people many times who have driven over that road at the risk of their lives. So, it is quite an area, Sir, not only from a tourism point of view but an industrial. It is a good area there and has a good economy. So, I feel, Sir, that in fairness to these people,after trying since 1949, I would say, for a bit of pavement that this Government will be the one to do it. HR. IDBERTS: I would like to present a further petition. I ask leave, Sir, to present a petition from Quirpon in the constituency of White Bay North.

It is signed by thirty-four of the citizens of that community. These are people who live along one of the three main roads through the COIIIIIIUDity of Quirpon. The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, is really quite straightforward. It is quite simpla to state and I would hope that it would be quite simple to grant. Of the three roads in Quirpon, Sir, two are opened. The machine resides at Quirpon, the snowclearing machine for that branch of the highways network resides at Quirpon.

It ia based there and two roads are opened and then the machine goes on and clears part of the main road and then clears the roads up through the co11U11unities of Noddy Bay, L'Anse-au-"eadow, Hay Cove and Straitsview and then comes back and does the remainding road in Quirpon. These thirty-four people, Sir, who live along this road ask if the machine could be instructed to clean the three roads in Quirpon before it goes on the main road to clear the roads up to L'Ance-au-Meadow, Hay Cove, Noddy Bay and Straitsview. I think it is an 1380

February 25, 1974. Tave 430 iH - 3 eminently reasonable request, Sir. 'l'here are thirty-seven chi.ldren living along the road who are served by a school bus .carried eithe.r. to St .. Antboay or to Gunners Cove or to St. Lunaire. 'l'he_ tliree schools serve children :la the area. If there is a snowstoni the children are made to walk because there is no way the bus can come on the 1381

February 25, 1974, Tape 431, Page.l -- apb roarl. In addition, of course, Mr. Speaker, these people look to oil for most of their fuel for heating and that is delivered by truck.· Again, if the road is not open ft is a grave inconvenience to them. The prayer of the petition, Sir, is a very simple one, I think it is a very reasonable one. It would in no way reduce the auow clearing services elsewhere, it would be merely a re-allocation of the order, the priorities of this machine. I think all concerned would be very happy if it could be done.

I present the petition and would urgently ask the minister to have a look at it and with the hope that he will instruct his officials to take the appropriate steps. Thank you, Sir. MR.. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Manpower and Industrial Belationa: BON • .J.G.ROUSSEAU (Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations): Certain acts in the administration of the Department of Manpower and Industrial Relations require the minister to table certain information.

Accordingly, today,under section (79) of the Labour Relations Act, I am tabling a report on the labour situation in the province im 1973, which includes the disposition of all conciliation requests to the government and their eventual disposition. Bequest fo~ arbitration cases, requests for permission to prosecute from the minister and also, the r~quest for industrial enquiry commissions. Under section (43) of the Public Services Collective Bargaining Act, I am tabling information concerned with that act and under section (35). information concerned with the Newfoundland Teachers' Collective Bargaining Act.

In addition, this report also include the reports from the Newfoundland Labour Relations Board as to the disposition of each of the cases referred to it during 1973 year and also the annual report of the Minimum Wage Board. I have a number of copies for the House and I have a number of copies for the press. Very interesting reading. 1382

February 25, 1974, Tape 431, Page_ 2 -- apb ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable the member for Bell Island: MR. s.~.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, it is nice to See the honourable Premier back from the delights of Quebec City and New York. I wonder if the Premier would be good enough to tell the House what arrangements, if any, or what agreements, if any, hi• government have entered into with the Trizec Corporation .that 1• •going to build this big skyscraper downtown? HON. F.D.MOORES (Premier): I will take notice of that question, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I will try again.

Will the honourable the Premier inform the House what role the George McLean Public Relations Firm is playing in the Silver Anniversary of Confederation? MR. K>ORES: I will take notice of that question too, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we are not getting very far today. This is the crowd· that were going to give all the information to the people of Newfoundland. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. NEARY: Would the Minister of Tourism inform the House if his department has yet signed an agreement with ."Horizons Communications?" MR.

SPEAKER: I think that question was asked a few days ago at a session and at that time I directed the honourable member to place it on the Order Paper.and I shall do the same now. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I could ask the Minister of Tourism, because there may be something improper happening here, Sir, and that is why I want to get the inforu;iation from the minister, because the minister stated a few days ago, Your Honour is quite right, that this "Horizons Communications" had no dealings at all with the minister's department. What I would like to ask the minister ·now, Mr.

Speaker, is if "Horizons Communications" are actually issuing press releases in behalf of the Silver Anniversary Committee? MR. SPEAKER: I believe that question is another way. of asking the original one put by the honourable member for Bell Island and that too 1383

February 25, 1974, Tape 431, Page 3 -- apb can be placed on the Order Paper. The honourable member for Labrador South: MR. M.MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the honourable the Minister of Finance.

I would ask the honourable minister to table for the House copies of all agreements made between the provincial government or any of its crown corporations and Lease­ back Projects Limited, and to identify the company or companies into which Leaseback Projects Limited has been subsumed and to state the amount or amounts paid to such company or companies during the pas·t fiscal year in lieu of earlier agreements made With Leaseback Projects Limited. BON. J.C.CROSBIE (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, that is obviously a 4uestion for the Order Paper and it should go on the order Paper.

There have been no agreements between this government aud Leaseback Projects Limited at all, that is since January 1972 when this government entered office and there have been no payments made by this government to Leaseback Projects Limited. Any agreements that the honourable member is referring to date back to the 1960's sometime. AN HON. MEMBER: Table them. MR. CROSBIE: If the honourable gentleman should want to table a question, sure! There is no problem getting copies but these, I think, go back to 1965 or 1966. If the honourable gentlemen should want to table a question we will table them. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: (Inaudible) MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to direct a question to the Minister of Social Services who just got back from one of his jaunts across Canada, I would like to ask the minister if this province was one of the provinces that did not support the principle of the guaranteed annual income at the recent Federal-Provincial Conference on social assistance? HON. A.J,MURPHY (Minister of Social Services): I thought I attended 1384

February 25, 1974, Tape 431, Pag~ 4 - apb every·minute of that conference but I 11ever heard the guaranteed income come up at all. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKEI.: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEAil!: Manitoba- The minister was either aaieep;Sir, or - Oder please! Or there wae something radically wrong, becauae - Order please! I would like to ask the m:lniater if he is avare that 1385

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 432 NM - l if he is aware - What is wrong with ''Witch-Hunt Willie," today Sir? AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! MR. NEARY: I would like to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker, if he is aware of an experiment going on in Manitoba on the guaranteed annual income and that was certainly reported at the conference that was held out westl MR. MURPHY: Unfortunately, Sir, I did not get to Manitoba. I had to come back to Toronto for a couple of days so I was not in Manitoba but I will certainly find out what the gentleman is talking about.

If anybody is aware perhaps he is and someone in Manitoba. MR. NEARY: Yes I am, more aware th~n the honourable minister. He should have taken his deputy minister. MR. MURPHY: The deputy was with me. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! ADDRESS IN REPLY: HR. SPEAKER: I think the honourable Minister of Finance adjourned the debate last day. Ba'i. J. C. CROSBIE I Minister of Finance: Mr. ··speaker, the honourable gentleman stayed in that he might learn something but on the other hand, Mr. Speaker, - MR. ROBERTS: Not while the honourable gentleman is speaking, MR. CROSBIE: On the other hand, Mr.

Speaker, this crowd does not want to learn anything. They want to obscure all that they can. r.nuld I have one of those stools? Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, on Thursday, in his usual trenchant way, suffering from trenchant mouth moved a non-confidence motion,and I spoke for I think it was five minutes on Friday in connection with it. In the non-confidence motion he makes three points and I am now dealing with the first point. The first reason why the Leader of the Opposition wants the 1386

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 432 members of the House to carry this motion and defeat the government: NM. - 2 · . His first point is that the House is aupposed to regret our failure to introduce adequate programmes to lessen the severe impact on our people of the rapidly rising cost of living.

I said last Thursday, Mr4 Speaker, that this would be a foolish point for any member of the House to agree to chastise his government about ~ecause firstly the ra~idly rising cost of living is entirely outside the control of this government and of the members of this House •• Just to repeat the reasons why, to summarize for a moment, the question of inflation and the question of cost of living and increases in it is within the power and control of the Government of Canada only, so far as it can be controlled.

Insofar as it can be. controlled,it is in their hands._ It is in their hands because they control the Bank of Canada which is the central bank, because they control the amount of the money supply in the country, because they control the currency, because they control inter-provincial trade and comaerce and interna~ional trade and commerce and movements of agricultural goods between provinces and the rest of it. No province of Canada can control inflation nor the cost of living. Interest rates are also a matter within the power of the Government of Canada as are custom duties, tariffs and excise taxes.

So we cannot control these matters, this government cannot, the . Government of Ontario cannot, the Gove.rnment of New Brunswick cannot control this inflation. Now, Mr. Speaker, we cast our minds back to 1968, 1969, 1970~ We will remember that the federal government then led by Mr. Trudeau said that their first object was to control inflation and increases in ,the cost of living.and for three years they attempted to do that with the various means at their disposal.

But that was an unpopular lllOVe because the unemployment figures rose during the period and they eventually changed their policy and since their near d~feat in the fall of 1972, in the election at that time, they have adopted 1387

February 25, 1974 Tape_No. 432 NM - 3 policies that are not policies to control inflation but policies to increase employment only. Insofar as they are able to do anything in connection with inflation, they have decided that they are not going to control inflation, that they are going promote instead full employment. So this is within their hands. I agree that they are not in entire control of the cost of living.

I bet a lot of this was caused by events in international affairs that they cannot control either but certainly if the Government of Canada at Ottawa cannot control the inflation with the means they have at their disposal, we have no chance whatsoever to do so. Newfoundland cannot control prices of the goods that go into the international trade and co11111.erce. We import into this province j~t about all our food, building materials, cars, clothing, All of these items are imported in this province and we have absolutely no control over what prices are cha~ged for them.

So, we have to say that insofar as the rapidly rising cost of living is concerned, the Leader of the Opposition should direct his plea and his attention to Prime Minister Trudeau and should request him to adopt anti­ inflationary policies if we are to control th~ cost of living. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the increase in the cost of living is not only harming the people of the province. thP. people who live here, it is also harming this government and every provincial government because the effect of the increase in all of these costs is to greatly increase the estimates of expenditure that we will have to put before the House for the coming fiscal year commencing April 1. The cost of operating every institution has gone up tremendously. The cost of purchasing food, of heating oil, the cost of the things they consume in these institutions and hospitals have all gone up.

The cost of operating school boards has gone up. The cost of operating every service we now have is gone up and this will be reflection in the estimates. 1388

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 432 MM .- 4 . So, Mr. Speaker, if we could do anything to persuade the federal government to do something to stop this rapid increase in prices ~e certainly would. We would be ~ight.behind it but we have no power ourselves to do it. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, but the Government of Canada has very flexible revenue resources. Its revenues next year are going to increase by 19 per cent. The Government of Canada has been able in the last two years to reduce taxes while at the same time they vastly increased their spending.

This province and the other provinces are not in that category at all. Our revenµes are not rising at this rapid rate, a.e the federal government's revenues are rising •. They have the flexible tax sources we do not, the provinces do not. In the last two years they have been able to pay out over $1 billion more a year to offset the unemployment ineurace deficit. They are paying out about $800 million additional thia year for family allowances. They have been able to decrease taxes by about $1.3 million.

They provided new corporate income tax write-offs that are going to deer~a~e their revenues $600 million to $700 million and they have indexed the personal income-tax so that thie year they are going to decrease their income tax returns by about $350 million. So the Government of Canada in the last two years has been able to implement major new spending prograunes and at the sam.e time they have been able to decrease.federal taxes. That is what the federal government can do because of their buoyant revenue oositio~, beca1111e of their excess fiscal capacity compared to the provinces. That is why, Mr.

Speaker, when dealing with Ottawa we have taken the stand we are taking, because if this trend continues, the provinces will become so weakened that eventually they may very well vanieh. The provinces have not got the fiscal capacity to meet their spending responsibilities; health, education, roads, welfare, municipalities and the rest of it. We just have not got the fiscal capacity and we have asked Ottawa to give us some room, to let us take up some of their tax room, ·but instead 1389

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 432 NM - 5 of doing that, no they have chosen to go on tremendous spending programmes and to reduce their own taxes because obviously it is is more politically popular for them to do that and that is their deliberate choice, but they are strangling all of the provi~al governments except one or two of the very wealthy ones.

We are being strangled by this increase in the cost of living and by the fact that our revenue capacity only goes up each year by some 10 per cent to 12 per cent while our sp_ending on items that are beyond our control altogether is rising by a much greater percentage, So we want the cost of living controlled, We want the Government of Canada to do something about inflation , and we want them to give us some tax room because if they do not, we may as well face the fact that we may have to pack up shop sometime in the next four or five years. I gave an example last time, Mr.

Speaker, which I would like to repeat: The federal government last year,unilaterlly, without any consultation with us, indexed the personal income tax to take the effect of increases in the cost of living and inflation out of the income tax returns. Your exemptions will go up as the cost of living goes up and so on, They did not consult us. They consulted none of the provinces and they are going to lose $350 million this year because of that, but they cen~stand the lo~s, Mr. Speaker, 1390

February 25, 1974 Tape 433 PK - l becausf of these flexible revenue resources, it is fair to say it is going to cost Newfoundland this year $2.8 million less in income tax that we will receive because of indexing and another $2.2 million equalization loss, because the other provinc~s are all going to lose income tax. Ontario, for example, will lose $65 million this year because of that federal government unilateral decision. We ask the federal government to make up the difference to us.

They instituted indexing, would they make up the revenue that we have lost a• a result, would they give the provinces revenue to make it up? They said flatly "no." That means, Mr. Speaker, that next year we have to find $5 million that we would not have had to find if they had not done that. When I put that to Mr. Turner at the Finance Ministers'Meeting, when the provinces 1put it to him, his answer was if you need more money raise ,your own tax rates, we are not going to do it. If this causes you to lose revenue,raise your own tax rates. That was their attitude. That is why, Mr.

Speaker, we do not accept their position and that ia why at Federal/Provincial Conferences we are not accepting \ the kinds of positions that they outline, because the result of all these actions is that the federai government becomes stronger ,and . stronger and the provinces are becoming weaker and weaker. If we are to meet our constitutional responsibilites this attitude has got to be changed by the federai government. One other illustration, the federal government wants to - they want to put a ceiling on what they spend on health expenditures. They propose for the last several years this Lalonde Formula.

They are in an open-ended situation, they pay roughly half,let us use that as an example, of our expenditures in hospital insurance, medicare and so on. Half the national per capita or half the actual, it depends on the progra111111e. They want to put a ceiling on it so that they will know what expenditure they are sharinR in and the ceiling would be, for example; they would pay what they paid in the base year plus a percentage increase equal to the increase in the gross national product. There are a few 1391

Febniary 25, 1974 Tape • 433 PK - 2 variations on that formula. But they want to put a ceiling on what they will contribute to health, hospital insurance and medicare ex:penditures in Ganada. We have refused to accept that, Hr.

Speaker~ because the res ul t would be that all of the risks of increases in the cost of livi ng, wages and inflation and the rest of it would be left with the provinces, The federal government that initiated many of those programmes, initiated medicare and health insurance and the rest of it would be getting off, not scot-free but would have a ceiling beyond which they would not have to share these expenditures with us. As we pointed out to them, for example, in hospitals the wages are traditionally low.

The time has come,we had to do it last year and this year,where wages and salaries are rising rapidly in hospitals. We cannot be put into a position where the federal.government will not have to share those rapidly increasing costs with us. Still they will not accept that position either. After initiating those prograllll!les they now want to put on a ceiling so that all of the effects of inflation and increases in cost are left with the provinces. That is another example of a federal attitude that we cannot accept. One other point while I am on the federal situation: This is another thing that is annoying.

Last year it was announced by the Minister of Finance in his budget, Mr. Turner, that Newfoundland would receive $24.2 million, I believe the figure was, in increased tax equalization because they were going to include school taxation in calculating the formula - $24 million. ~embers on the other side,wanting to create mischief of course, howled that this was a great windfall and it should be spent on this and it should be spent on that and we now have $24 million, it should go on mothers allowances, it should go in schools, it should go on everything under the sun. As it turns out, ~r.

Speaker, that figure has now been revised downwards by them to $19 million. So the figure they used originally and publicized across Canada last winter, $24 million, after all revisions had been made and after

February 25, 1974 Tape 433 PK - 3 they changed the formula this has become $19 million, it vas never $24 million in the first place. Just a week or two ago, Mr. Speaker, ve discovered, we get notice from Ottawa that in 1971-1972,t~e last year the honourable crowd opposite were in, they overpaid tax equalization to Newfoundland by $5 million.

They pa;d the province $110 million­ this is two fiscal years ago. and now their final calculation show that it should have been $105 million. (I am using the round figures). so that we owe them $5 million for this extra amount they they transferred down here in 1971-1972 and that the honourable crowd opposite spent. That $5 million has to be deducted next month from our tax equalization payment for this year. That was two years ago. But this year 1973-1974 we are going to have to pay back this $5 million to Ottawa for the over­ payment they made in 1971-1972. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR.

CROSBIE: No, it was reduced to $19 million; now we take off another $5 million and you have $14 million. So if we had budgeted for the year and spent the $24 million on mothers allowances and schools and the rest of it, we would be in a pretty pickle. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: So. Mr.

Speaker, to get back to my theme, to get back to my point: These are matters within the control of the Government of Canada and in our view the Government of Canada are behaving poorly in relation to the provinces both through failure to attempt to control inflation and through failure to give us the additional fiscal capacity we need. Now what have we done to lessen the severe impact on our people of the rapidly rising cost of living? Remember this is one reason now why the Leader of the Opposition wants to boot us out. This is why he has not got confidence.

He says , that we failed to introduce adequate programmes to lessen this severe impact. Nov No.(l}you will have to remember · our financial capacity and our fiscal capacity, which I will not ­ go into in any more detail. It is in the budget for all to see. We are under severe constraints in rapidly rising costs and the rest of it. What 1393

February 25, 1974 ~ape 433 PK - 4 have we done that we get no credit for from the honourable gentlemen opposite or anyone else in the province, if they can have -their way? Since taking office we have increa~ed the minimum wage to $1.80. Now surely that helped lessen the severe impact on our people of the rapidly rising costs of living when you will remember the minimum wage two years ago ~as $1.10 an hour, that in six months time it is going to $2.00 an hour and then after .that to $2.20. That was one step that was taken. When the honourable gentlemen opposite left office the miniI!IUlll wage was $1.10 an hour.

It is now $1.80. So that is one step. That came into effective January 1, it was raised also t~ro years ago. We removed the sales tax from childrens clothing. Childrens clothing used to carry seven per cent additional price but in 1972 the sales tax was removed from childrens clothing. That is another step that this government have taken to lessen the impact of the rapidly rising cost of living.

Thirdly, on January 1, this year, the government removed the Liberal seven per cent imposition of sales tax on stove and furnace oil, on heating oil - seven per cent was removed on January 1, this year because of the rapidly rising cost of living, on the rapidly rising cost of heating oil. So we took that seven per cent off. That seven per cent was imposed by previous governments. It was removed by the present government to help meet the rapidly rising cost of heating fuel but the Hon. the Leader of the Opposition has not mentioned that. What else have we done?

We brought into effect, full effect~the principle of equal pay for men and women in the government service throughout this province. That is costing us several millions of dollars a year. So tha t every women in a comparable job to a man in the government service of this province,of this province,or in hospitals and so on receive equal pay. That was not in effect when we took office. That has been put into effect. We are responsible, Mr. Speaker, for the wages of approximately 27,000 people in this province, directly in government service or teachers or hospitals, institutions financed by the government.

So that is something we did for the women of the province when they are looking at the cost of · living, equal 1394

February 25, 1974 T,ape 433 Pit - 5 pay for them if they work in the same classification and the same kind of work as a man throughout the service. That was brough~ into affect. We increased and made uniform the Labrador Allowance, in Labrador, .: about six months ago. There used to be a hard-lying allowance in Labrador or a Northern allowance which was only received by about twenty per cent of the permanent employees working in Labrador who receive this hard-lying allowance. We have changed that, Mr.

Speaker, and made it fair and we now pay to every employee of the government who lives in Labrador and works there for the government the Northern Allowance. That allowance is $600 per annum for a single person and $1,200 per annum for a married person. So that certainly assists our employees who live in Labrador with the cost of living. Now that is a Labrador Allowance. A 'hard-lying allowance in Labrador was introduced •bout 1959 by the Liberal Administration. It applied only to people working in Labrador and then only to certain people who worked for the government in Labrador. If they were in 1', 1395

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 434 Page 1 - MW one Labrador community but worked in a second community for the government then they did not ~et it. There are all kinds of queer anomolies like that. Only twenty per cent got it. Now one hundred per cent get it, includins all the teachers who work up in Labrador. It does not matter whether you were born in Newfoundland or born in Labrador, you get this northern allowance. It is a Labrador allowance. It only applies in Labrador.; ' It only applied there when the last administration introduced it. It only applies there now.

There is no way we can see of applying it to the island because there is no way when we get to the island that we can say one area is more isolated or different from. another area. It is a Labrador allowance and it is to help and assist people who work for government or teach or whatever up in Labrador. That has been vastly improved. I will write the honourable gentleman in due course. Now, Mr. Speaker, what else did we do? Last year in our Budget Speech we increased the pensions of 1,137 former civil servants and teachers or persons who were pensioned by the Government of Newfoundland.

I will not go into the formula. It is in the Budget Speech. It was so much a year. I believe it was $360 if your pension were,I think, $2,000 or $3,000 and less. It was $240 if it were between there and $8,000 or $9,000 and then a lesser amount if the pension you were receiving was over the higher amount of money. We increased the pensions paid to all government pensioners or for whom government are responsibile - 1,137 of them. That was some assistance to them during this period of the rapidly rising cost of living. What else did we do? We have introduced, Mr.

Speaker, in the Civil Service, in the government service, for the first time,a group life and health insurance plan under which the government pay fifty per cent of the cost of premiums. That applies to all those who work in the Civil Service • . That is something entirely new. That certainly helps with the cost of living. 1396

Februaey 25, 1974 Tape no. 434 Page Mr. Speaker, the laat time when the Hon. Leader of the Opposition introduced his motion of nonconfidence, he was aarcastic about the wage increases ~hat we paid in the last tvo years. Re sniffed at them and said what a hard attitude we took and we did not give large enough increases. I pity the poor honourable member if he ever gets into power. If he ever gets into power and pe~ple point out to him what he said when he was out of power, he is going to suffer the crucifixion.

Be vas over there bellowing that we should give more; we ahould have paid out more :fn wages and salaries to the hoapital workers 2 and ao on,knowing that these were the greatest and highest increases ever paid in this province in any one year to those categories of workers. Just listen to these figures, Mr, Speaker. I will ahow the honourable member about wages and salaries.

From 1949 to 1971 (an invidious comparison 1 I know) during that twenty-three year period, the previous Liberal Administration awarded eight salary increases to public servants, totalling seventy­ seven per cent or three and one-half per cent a year, if you take it over the twenty-three years, In addition they got annual incre~ents of between fifty dollars and one hundred .dollars, depending on the categoey of employment. That is over a twenty-three year period, a seventy-seven per cent increase.

Since we assumed office, the increaaea for the year 1972-1973, 1973-1974 and with the second half of the collective agreements being next year, there will be increases in 1974-1975. Those increases in any one year have ranged froaa a low of eight per cent to a high of twenty per cent. The people who got the high were the lowest paid workers, particularly in the categoey of hospital workers. In one year our increases have ranged f~o• eight per cent to twenty per cent each year. I have a ~hole summaey here of each bargaining unit for the three year period, which I will not go into. Mr.

Speaker, open-vote workers, i.e., in 1972-1973 got nine per cent, including the five per cent increment. In this 1397

February 25, 1974 Tape no, 434 Page 3 present financial year they got ten per cent and next year tliey get eight point three per cent - or $-560 whichever is the greater and another $200 in September of 1974. There is no point going into all the details. The wages and salaries paid to teachers, government employees, hospital employees, government agencies have increased vastly in the last two years. Now we do not have the figures for 1971-1972. Mr.

Speaker, in the first year in which this government were in office, 1972-1973, we paid out a total of $173,700,000 in wages and salaries to teachers, government employees, hospital employees and government agencies -- $173,700,000. In the present financial year, 1973-1974, as a result of all the negotiations in which I received nothing but abuse, as you would expect when you are trying to hold the lid - I do not mind that, that is the job. It is not pleasant.

Somebody has to be the villain- - !t has gone to $207,400,000, wages and salaries thi.s year to govermnent employees,teachers, hospital workers and the people who work for government agencies. We estimated in the Budget Speech, $200,000,000. It looks like it is going to be $207,400,000, Now that was an increase over the previous year of about $34,000,000. Now ia the Leader of the Opposition justified in getting up in this House and trying to pretend that the government have been very niggeredly and stingy in the wages and salaries that it is paying to its employees? It is ridiculous.

To state the facts, it shows conclusively that the Leader of the Opposition is speaking through his hat. Next year, Mr. Speaker,and the year coming up, 1974-1975, our estima~e of the cost of wages and salaries alone is $236,000,000. In the two years we have been in office, it will have gone from $173,000,000 to $236,000,000. That is a $63,000.000 increase between the end of March, 1972 and the coming financial year. If you want to take it fr0111 the end of March 1975, that would be a three-year period, 1398

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 434 Page 4 The Leader of the Opposition says that he regrets how· niggeredly we had been and bow we tried to hold down the poor government worker or the poor hospital workers, when they have received the greatest increases since Confederation in the last two years. Now when it comes to bargaining, Hr. Speaker 1 we are certainly not going into bargaining,attempting to give away the treasury. We have to try and hold the line. We hue to do what is right, reasonable and proper and keep in mind that all of this eventually has to come from the taxpayer.

Despite our best efforts, this is how wages and salaries have increa•ed in the last two years. 'Ihe Hon. Leader of the Opposition regrets and says that we have been niggeredly, mean and it was shocking bow we handled and treated the public servants 1 teachers and hospital workers of the province. Not only that, Mr. Speaker, but we brought in the Public Service Collective Bargaining Legislation which now gives them the proper right to bargain and to strike if they want to take that final step for both the public service and the teachers.

This was legislation that was lacking when we came into office : When we came into office, one was not allowed to atrl.ka at all if one were a teacher or if you were a civil servant in this province. That is the social advance. 'What else has been done? Now I am not going to mention everything that has been done in connection with the cost of living'. I am just giving some illustrations. It is the technique of the honourable gentlemen opposite, with the exception of the Hon.

Member for Labrador North, who s1>read about this province a web and tissue of deceit, of obfuscation, of attempting to give a picture, an impression that this is a government that has done nothingi that ia screwing the poor people of Newfoundland dcxm into the ground; that is hammering themi that is treading on them with a hard heel; that bas done nothing;and nothing could be falser. They are on 1399

Februaey 25, 1974 Tape no. 434 Page 5 the media; they are worming their way; they are a4uirming and inching through the province, raising their·beak.s- with every offered microphone,with this klnd of scurrilous story, 'Id.th this false, malicious and tenacious story. There1 is not a word of truth in it. Now what else'l _I will me'Qtion one other thing. I will mention the new revamped Social Assistan;ce Programme, introduced by our honou-rable friend,the Member for St .. John's Centte, vbo bas been uligned 1 slandei:ed, abused 1400

February 25, 1974 • Tape 435 IB-1 calumniated by the Liberal campaign. over the last six months, a un with a bigger heart and a kinder disposition never trod the floors of this House of Aasembly. So, let us look at the social assistance programme. The rates for aocial assistance recipients between 1966, I believe it is and 1973 increased a total of seven per cent. Between 1966 and 1973 the rates paid to social assistance recipients increased seven per cent only over those seven years. When did -they increase?

Tbey increased basically by the present government in April of 1972 when food and clothing allowances were increased. The last increase under the previous administration was in 1966 when a Canada Assistance Plan was introduced.

So, these honourable gentlemen on the other side, the ones who have been on the airways, making the airways reek, rock and roll over the last six or twelve months about the social assistance recipients - with Mr, Peter Harrington and the other action groups that have come up in the last couple of years, it is a pleasure to have them and listen to them and see what they say - the honourable gentlemen opposite, these paragons of virtue who have attacked and" maligned and maliciously insulted and said everything under the sun about the present Minister of Social Assistance, while they were in from 1966 to 1972, no increase in the social aasistance rates except in 1966.

An increase in April of 1972, that is where most of the seven per cent increase came from 1966 to 1973, under the present administration. -f'.- Then in January, 1974,the minister introduced a major new progra111111e, co-ordinated with the new family allowance programme which conservatively means an increase of twenty per cent in the rates and so on received by people on social assistance, conservatively. Ninety-one per cent of everyone on social assistance will receive more, some much 1DOre. Five per cent will receive the same amount and four per cent, those 1401

February 25, 1974 Tape 435 IB-2 with very large families, a slight decrease. So, there has been a major increase in the monies paid to the recipients of social assistance. It has been made to appear . as though the recipients of social assistance where being beaten with whips and that they had received a cut in what they receive instead of what is actually the truth of the situation. So, there is another major attempt to help alleviate the the effects of the rapidly rising, rapidly Liberal rising - by the Liberal Government at Ottawa - rising cos .t of living.

That is another step we have taken to try to counteract what the Liberals in Ottawa are doing. They are pushing the coat of living up and they are going to bring us all to financial ruin in our attempts to alleviate the effects of their lose policy in connection with inflation in Ottawa. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: The most generous cruel men in Canada. Look at the coat of liviAg. MR. CROSBIE: The cost, I almost cry when I see the estimates and see the cost. Usually I am trying to jack it all up but - Anyway, Mr. Speaker, these are the facts.

Now, this resolution aska the gentlemen of the House here to kick us out because we have not iDtroduced adequate programmes to lessen this severe impact of the rapidly rising cost of living. Pitiful! I am sure there is no honourable gentleman in this House foolish enough to vote us out of office for the weak reason given by the Leader of the Opposition who should be ashamed to put such a ridiculous propositi01'1 before the members of the House. ... What did the honourable gentle1118n talk about the other day? What points did he make? What would he do? What did he say he would do if he were in power?

Not what would he do? Because he would not do these things. You know, he is shrewder and smarter end more intelligent than tllat. He has got some intelligence,that honourable 1402

February 25, 1974 Tape 435 IB-3 gentleman. He has a nasty way of displaying it but he has got it. So. what would he actually do if he were in power1 Well, according to the "Evening Telegram" which I always read for their reports and they are usually pretty factual, a pretty good coverage of the House, he made three main points about the cost of living. He wants us to investigate it. He wants us to investigate, appoint an enquiry. Now, Mr. Speaker, we could appoint a Commission of Enquiry if we wanted just to pretend, you know, to gloss things over. That vas a device 111Uch loved by his former leader, Mr.

Smallwood. In 1965, I think it was, he appointed about ten or twelve co1111Disaions of enquiry. We had a c0111111ission of enquiry headed by the former mayor, Mr. Adams, which juat reported just three or four years ago .on the coat of living in Newfoundland. They _could not conclude anything. They could not point their finger. They could not pinpoint anyone as being a profiteerian and so on. They pointed at transportation costs and inventory costs and this cost and that cost to explain why the cost of living here was higher than it was in other places.

So, what is the point in appointing a royal commission · to enquire1 That is just a political dodge and we do not accept it and we are not going to do it. We know the Federal Government has a ,rices and Review Board and we know they come to this province to look into it and we know the Minister of Provincial Affairs has a C01lSumer Affairs Department. If there are any serious charges of profiteering or tremendous profits being made9 with the limited staff he has got, they will certainly do their best to look into it.

So, let us forget number one because number one is just a piece of political quackery, not made to be taken seriously. ~twas his second suggestion to solve it? Well, he suggested that public service pay scales be tied in with the cost of living. He wants us to put our pay scales and tie them on to the cost of living and as the cost of living goes up~ pay the increase 1403

Februa-cy 25, 1974 Tape 435 IB-4 in salaries and wages and then bargain with the employees also for the additional amounts they are going to want. Well, I know no government in Canada does that, Mr. Speaker. It would put you -in a pretty hard position if you ever agreed to do it- The whole process of collective har~aining takes place within the background, the fact the cost of living has increased. Conciliation boards hold hearings.

This is one of the major factors they look into when you cannot aaree with your employees as to what the proper increase should be, this cost of living, We cannot tie our hands behind our back and just say automatically; if the cost of living goes up ten per cent, we will bounce all wages and salaries up ten per cent. The honourable gentleman opposite would not do it if he were in office either and we do not intend to do it. He suggested social assistance payments should be adjusted to meet cost of living increases. We have done that.

We have said, I believe, that in future when the cost of livin~ goes up, we are going to look at adjustments. This is rart of a scheme that there will be adjustments with the cost of living in connection with social assistance. So, that was his other great point which we have already said that we are going to do. Finally he made some noise about Nova Scotia ar,d the fact that up there a Public Utilities Board has some power to check increases in oil and gas prices. Now, Mr. Speaker, it was decided by us weeks ago, several months ago, that we were going to look into this.

It has been looked into, what our constitutional position is, can we control wholesa1e prices as well as retail prices, what the best approach would be for regulation, That is being done by the Minister of Mine• and Energy and when he is finished and when he has reached his couelusions, the House ~1111 be informed and measures will be brought_before the House. That is the only other suggestion that the Leader of the Opposition had on that point. The honourable Leader of the Opposition tries to make out and 1404

February 25, 1974 Tape 435 lB-$ . honourable gentlemen opposite try to make out that the people of Newfoundland are now worse off than they ever were. They are crippled and crucified by the cost of living; They are crippled and crucified by this government and they are worse off than they ever were before. Now, here is the picture, Mr. Speaker, and it is a very interesting one. Naw, I am comparing the years 1971 at the end of which we assumed office, to 1973, the year just passed. The per capita personal income in Newfoundland in 1971 was $2,188. That is the per capita peraonal income. In 1973 it wu $2,760.

That is a percentage increase of 26.1 per cent over .these two years. We calculate that in 1974 the per capita income in Newfoundland will be $3,112 or another 12.8 per cent increase. I am not saying that this is all due to the Progressive Conservative Administration although ve certainly feel that we have helped her•, that we have given, that the people have more confidence in the province because we have taken over, that we have done certain things that have helped. I do not claim that this is all a result of a change of government. I am showing what it wu like at the qd of 1971 compared to now.

So, the personal :f.ncome is up twenty-.ix per cent in two years. Over the same period the overall consumer price index has increased by 13.7 per cent. In other words, if you take the cost of living, the overall consumer price index in 1971 and then you look at it in 1973, the cost of living index overall increased 13.7 per cent. Since the per capita incomes increased 26.J 1405 1'..,

February 25, 1974, Tape 436, Page 1 -- apb _per cent, the . real income growth in the province over these two years is veey significant. 12.4 per cent in the laat two years or an average of 6.2 per cent per year. That has been the real growth in income. When you take out the inflation and the cost of living, the people of this province in the last two years have had a 12.4 per cent increase in their real income. 26.1 pei cent total income, 12.4 per ce~t real income. "An extremely high rate of real growth in historic terms." I am quoting now, the economist that prepared this.

"This is an extremely high rate of real growth in historic terms. Despite the inflation the increase in personal income has been so great. Food costs have had the greatest increase. They have risen about 25.5 per cent since 1971." Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, we cannot and have no control over these prices because our food is virtually all imported. Able-Bodied Belief: "In 1971 · the average number of families on short-term assistance was 7,300.

In 1973 the average was 4,500 for a percentage increase of 38 per cent." Some of this is due-to action taken by the government, some of this is due to steps taken by the Minister of Social Assistance, some of this is due to the nev expanded unemployment insurance scheme but· the fact remains that the average number of families on short-term assistance has decreased by 38 per cent. From. 7,300 to 4,500 last year. Gross Provincial Product: "Our gross provincial product in 1973 was $1.7 million. That is the total value of all goods and services in the province, $1. 7 million, last year." AN HON. MEMBER: Billion. MR.

CROSBIE: Billion. $1,733,000,000 to be exact, a 25.8 per cent increase from what it was in 1971. In 1971~ $1,378,000,000 last yearp$1,733,000,000 and in 1974 we expect it to increase by about 13 per cent · to $2 billion. We will be in office when Newfoundland for the first ti111e has a $2 million gross provincial product. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR. CROSBIE: Now if I were something like my predecessor, I would 1406

February 25, 1974, Tape 436, Pag~ 2 - apb really speak on that $2 billion. lt would not be one and three­ quarter billion it would be $2 billion and - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. CROSBIE: What? AN HON. MEMBER: What Minister of Finance? MR. CROSBIE: My predecessor, the Minister of Finance, the honourable Mr. Smallwood. Retail Sales: "In 1971," Mr. Speaker, "In 1971 retail sales in Newfoundland totalled $533 million." $533 million. "In 1973 it totalled $687 million, an increase of 28.8 per cent." A very rapid rate of increase. New Car Sales: "In 1971, 16,300 new care sold.

In 1973, 24,000." You know, Hoover said: "A chicken in every pot." That was his slogan. The Moores' slogan should be; "A car in every garage." 24,000 in 1973, sold, as compared to 16,300. Pulpwood: "In 1971, 536,000 cunits," c-u-n-i-t-s ( I do not want any accusations of improper language) cunits - 536,000 cunita. "In 1973, 915,250 cunits for a percentage increase of 70.6 per cent." We have increased the pulpwood production 70.6 per cent in our two years in office. Where is the Leader of the Opposition? Re does not want to hear this stuff. No, he is cow~ring now in his office.

Be does not want to listen to the facts. No, Sir: Be is over there thinking up something nasty and vicious to say when be comes back. AN BON. MEMBER: Hiding under the desk. MR. CROSBIE: Fish Landings: Listen to this, Mr. Speaker. "The value of fish landings has increased 32.6 per cent from 1971 to 1973.

The value was $35.5 million in 1971 to $47.2 million in 1973." Average Weekly Wages and Salaries: "In 1971 the average $124.00 per week in 1973, $150,00 per week for an increase of 21 per cent." If I wanted to build all this up I could talk, l could talk the whole week on what has happened in this province in the last two years. Two years of Moore~ prosperity. The Labour Force: "The average · size of the labour force in 1971, 158,000. In 1973, 180,000." A tremendous increase in the labour · 1407

February 25, 1974, Tape 436, Page 3 -- apb force, 13.9 percent, one of the highest rates of increase in the world. I am not going to deal with employment and unemployment- . -that can be left to another speaker. There has been a vast increase in the number of those employed ,but unfortunately, the labour force is increasing so rapidly that it is difficult to keep ahead of it. DREE Spending: No,t~at is another thing, I am going to deal with DREE spending in a few minutes. What do all these indicators show, Mr. Speaker?

They indicate a very prosperous economy indeed and no amount of talk from the opposition about the increases in the cost of living and the rest of it can undo the fact that the people of this province, today, are tremendously better off as compared to two years ago.

Every indicator shows it and that does not mean to say that we claim the credit for everything that has happened, We do not, we cannot,but we can certainly claim the credit for a good deal of this, for a proper climate in the province, for good administration, for some attention to sound financial principles. to putting Newfoundland back on the map again as a respectable place to belong to and the rest of it. A lot of • the credit we can take although we cannot ta)µ! all of it.

There are some of the facts, Mr, Speaker, and when we are talking about this resolution and the rapidly rising cost of living and the severe impact, the real nub of the matter is the increase in real income in the last two years and that has gone up over 12 per cent despite the increase in the cost of living. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think I have said all I need to say on the first part of this resolution. I have shown beyond a doubt that it is one of the silliest, moat ill-founded ,motions of non-confidence brought into this House of Assembly in a long, long time. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! HR.

CllOSBIE: No wonder the Leader of the Opposition is not here. He is! He is! He just came in! I hope he is ROing to be properly ashamed. He has been listening to me on hia earphones out there and he has these facts. 1408

February 25, 1974, Tape 436, PagJ 4 -- apb What is the second point that aroused the wrath and the ire aod made the hackles of honourable gentleaen opposi~e rise and increase their non-confidence in the government? 1 will tell the House and the world, Mr. Speaker, ve have no confidence 11l t~ Not an iota of confidence do we have in honourable gentlemen opposite, not one drop. We fear that if the province ever get• in their hands it will be desperate times indeed for Newfoundland to have the province's affairs in the control of the honourable nine gentlemen opposite, excluding the member for Labrador North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: South. MR. CROSBIE: South. South, not North. Sorry! If it got into their hands, God help us! Mr. Speaker, God help us! 1 could move a motion of non-confidence in those gentlemen opposite that would curl your hair. However, that is not our function. We are trying to govern the province harassed and assaulted on every side by honourable gentlemen opposite who care not what tactics they use. I am going to come to them later. Now the second part of the non-confidence motion.

The honourable gentlemen regret the failure of the administration to introduce ade~uate programmes to reduce the _extremely high n~r• of our people who are unemployed. Let us deal with some of the prograiaes that ve have, introduced, Mr. Speaker, let us look at some of them, some of these programmes. We have the Federal Winter Works Programme that we are participating in to the limit of the money that they lend us. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. CROSBIE: Well it is called the Capital Works Employment Programme now. It is still in operation.

Not LIP and LEAP and not FRIP and FRAP -and MAP and all that stuff, this is the Winter Works Programme, Mr. Speaker, the old Winter Works Programme which is now 1 think called the Federal-Provincial Capital Works PrograDD11e, where they loan the money to the province to spend. MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) 1409

February 25, 1974, Tape 436, Page 5 -- apb MR. CROSBIE: They loan the money, Mr. Speaker, to the province to spend. They do not even spend their own money on it, the crowd at Ottawa who honourable gentlemen opposite ar~ so proud of and are always boasting about. This federal government which has this big flexible reserves of revenue, they do not grant us the money for our Winter Works Programmes. No. They lend it to us. Well, we borrowed and are borrowing all we can under it, I think it is $12 million over a three-year period.and we have to pay it all back to Ottawa.

This is the big,generous Ottawa employment programme. They do not even give us a grant of the money they lend the province the money and they will forgive us the interest if the work is done in a certain period, for the province has to pay the money back. Well, we are in that up to our necks. · we borrowed that, we have to pay it back to "Pierre the Ogre" or his Finance Minister. We have to pay that back, the people of Newfoundland and the government. That is one of the great acts of generosity of that great government. 1410

February 25, 1974. Tape 437 RH - 1 that great Liberal Government in the great city of Ottawa, the great Country of Canada. They are crucifying us with inflation. They are crucifying our fiscal capacity and then the~ loan us a few measly bucks for Unemployment Capital Works in the winter but we are participating in it. We are borrowing all that they are offering us, We will have to pay it back later. Where is it being spent? It is being spent in forestry. It is being spent in developing excess roads. It is being spent in cut­ ting.in the winter time.

It is being spent on the Arts and Culture Centre at Stephenville and a number of other projects. We are trying to spend it in areas where there is a heavy labour content and where the work can be done in the winter time. So, that is one programme. What else have we done?

We are charged with failing to introduce adequate programmes to employ people, We have established and now have operating Labrador Linerboard Limited at Stephenville, that project which is providing employment for a considerable numler·of people, both directly and indirectly,and we have it on the road and we brought it from the brink of disaster to where it is now and it bas been a tremendous struggle and has required a lot of money but that is underway.

Tha~ - certainly is a programme to help with employment and if it were not there, there would be considerably less employment in this Province, both on the West Coast and in Labrador. There are construction programmes, massive government construction programmes going on.

In addition to the legacy left behind us, that ve had no choice about, a lot of which we would have to do in any event, some of which we might not have, in addition to that legacy there is the Health Sciences Centre at Memorial and the Carbonear Hospital which was almost started in a very queer way before the Minister of Health, the present minister,got that salvaged and on the road and Twillingate was started in a shakey way before the last electioD and now it is fully underway,and an extension to the Western Memorial Hospital. In addition to that, there are large construction we have 1411

February 25, 1974. Tape·437 RH - 2 initiated, all of whom are employing people. There is a Science and Engineering Building at Memorial, not fully underway. There is the exten­ sion to the Mental Hospital. For twenty-th~ee years, it was pointed out by the authorities that there should be an extension to the Mental Hospital. Honourable gentlemen opposite did not care about the Mental Hospital. They had other things on their minds. They knew nobody in there could vote, I suppose, so it was left to us to start the badly needed extension to the Mental Hospital and that is underway.

Student residences at Memorial University, you can see them out there now, they are under way, another employing several hundreds of peo~le, There is assistance granted the Newfoundland Forest Products. Honourable gentleman helped that originally. They let that bobble and collapse. We have got the Newfoundland Forest Sawmill at Hawkes Bay underway again by a loan of $1.75 million. That is providing employment to people.

There is the Canada Bay Lumber Company at Roddickton receiving a small amount of assistance from the Government to have their mill start up there in Roddickton, providing a lot of employment in the Roddickton area,and there are other sawmills that can be mentioned, the one that Roy Asmond is associated with; the new mill being established in the Bay D'Espoir area, George Sexton and other people. There is a vast,expanded programme of forest access roads. Millions of dollars have been spent in the last two years on forest access roads, a huge progral!lllle,and ell through the forestry department it ia the same.

In agriculture, $9 million spent - in agriculture, assisting farmers around the Province. In the fishery, $10 million, over $10 million. Who made it possible for fishery products to expand their operations at Catalina, an all-year-round programme? The Provincial Government. Who helped them order and acquire the new trawlers they have got coming on? The Provincial Government through a guarantee of half the lease payments. Who saved the fish plant at· Burgeo, no matter what the cost was? The cost was high. Honourable gentlemen opposite left office with that plant having been down 1412

February 25, 1974. Tape 437 RH - 3 for six months. The workers would not deal with Spencer Lake, We all know the chaotic situation. They had no solution. They had done qothing except make murmurs about expropriation when they knew that expropriation could not work. Expropriation would not solve the problems. That plant was pur­ chased by the Government, operated at heavy cost. It is now going to be operated by National Sea Products and hopefully is going to be a success. That is creative employment and the _new arrangement that brother Doody worked out is going to see that plant become a success.

That is something done by this Government. I am only giving a few examples. The Grose Morne Park: the'Grose Mome Park is now providing employ­ ment for many, many people and next year there will be a vast amount of money spent on the Grose Morne Park. When honourable gentlemen opposite left office it was at a stalemate.· They were getting.nowhere with it. It was Silica. Silica was holding up the Park. We all remember back in those days of Silica Bill and all the rest of it, Nothing was being accomplished in the Grose Morne Park. The Minister of Forestry and Agri­ culture has dealt with that situation.

He got a much better deal from Ottawa and there is a large expenditure and large employment in the Bonne Bay area and you can look all around the Province and see the same thing. The Rural Development Authority: Mr. Speaker, one of the most scurvy points that the Leader of the Opposition attempted to uke the other day was an attack on the Rural Development Authority. Honourable gentlemen opposite are jealous about the Rural Development Authority. They are angry that this was started and created by this administration because what was their rural programme?

Their rural development programme was doom the outports, resettle them, move them, whether -they had jobs or not just move them on. There was money from Ottawa to move people so,by golly, they were going to move theml They were the biggest movers in the history of the Province except they did not move the hearts of the people 1mo got moved and the Rural Development Authority is a direct contradiction to that. It is one hundred per cent opposite to their philosophy of doom and gloom for the outports. One hundred and eighty degree change, turnabout. 1413

February 25, 1974. Tape J.37 RH - 4 The'Rural Development Authority is to lend money to people who want to establish some industry or business, small as it may be, in a rural area, not in St. John's or Corner Brook or in Grand Falls, in the rural areas and there has been 753 loans approved and 550 completed in the two years that that programme has been going on and 2,100 jobs apparently is the number of jobs created. That is not the point I want to make here now. There has been $5.2 million allocated and spent in creating those jobs.

To date I think they have paid out $3.4 ~illion and the rest of it is in the pipeline. $5.2 million over the two years spent on the Rural Development Authority, 753 loans approved, 550 completed, yet the other day the Leader of the Opposition singles out three people and tries to allege patronage about this programme, tries to knock it, tried to allege scandal and of course, embarrasses and so on the peopl~ involved. I have I not been speaking to him but that is what it is supposed to do.

The Leader of the Opposition claimed that this is a pork barrel and patronage because three l~ans of the 550 completed and 753 processed have gone to people who were P.C. supporters or P.C, candidates, two of them candidates. A..~ HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CJlOSBIE: No, Sir. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible, MR. CROSBIE: All right, three of them. Bernard Fitzpatrick, Bill Patterson and Wallace Maynard. Is a man not to be eligible to receive a loan from the Rural Development Authority or any assistance from Government if he has ever been a candidate for the P.C.

Party or if he has ever been a candidate for ~ the Liberal Party or if he has ever been a candidate for any party? Is any- body who runs for office in any party, is he thereafter to be refused all assistance fro~ Government? Is he cut off? Is he finished? Because if that be the case, how are you going to find candidates who got any get up and go or any vim and vigor or ~eople who want to accomplish or do anything, if that is the criterion? 1414

Februa -ry 25, 1974. Tape 437 RH 5 Now, Bill Paterson lived in Placentia and made a living in Placentia and fought the battle in Placentia for ten, twelve, eighteen, ·cwenty years and he survived whether he has a loan from·the Rural Development Authority OT does not have one. So, he got a loan to help in his auto body shop or welding business. What is wrong with that? Is Bill Paterson to be sent to Coventey and to be allowed to wither on the vine because he once ran for the P.C.s?

There is nothing wrong with that loan at all, nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with it and he is employing a few people in Placentia and he has a business there and that is a rural area and he is eligible. Bernie Fitzpatrick got a loan for green houses on Bell Island. AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Oh, no, he ·does not live on Bell Island. He lives in St. John's, that is where he lives. MR. CROSBIE: He lives in St. John's.

He lived on Bell Island for years and he ia interested in establishing some employment on Bell Island and has a green house project into which he is putting money himself and in which he is also getting a loan from the Rural Development Authority. Nothing wrong with that, absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. The honourable gentlemen opposite, if one of them has a good suggestion, he wants to create some employment, perhaps say a manure spreading pile or something like that in one of the districts, he want• assistance on, he will be eligible for a loan.

The mere fact that he is a member of the House should not stop him, if it is right and proper. Finally, Wallace Maynard was mentioned. Well I am told, around the last election, I did not realize it, in St. Barbe North, was it? AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Yes, well the people up there now realize their mistake. They have got the honourable gentleman's brother here and they realize their miatake. They wish to God that they had Wallace Maynard here representing them because he is a man with some get up and go.

He is not in this House here just bellowing his lungs out, ciritzing the Government, being negative, destructive, 1415

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 438 NM - 1 yelling. I mean they know on the Northern Peninsula the honourable gentlemen opposite are finished. Wallace Ma~ard is not here doing that, Mr. Speaker, he is out trying to create employment in Newfoundland and to expand his business. I think it was a pulp­ wood operation that he got a loan for up in St. Barbe North. What is wrong with that? Yet the Leader of the Opposition gets up in the House and tries to make a big issue, attack the Rural Development Authority because three former P.C. candidates got assistance and loans. Well we say quite flatly, Mr.

Speaker, no one is barred from a loan from the Rural Development Authority if he has an idea to create eomething in a rural district, Whether he fs Liberal, P.C., N.D.P., New Labrador or whatever it is, they are eligible for loans if they meet the criteria. It is not going to be run on any other basis. There are dozens, hundreds of more programmes I could mention that are contrary to this to this extremely high. you know lack of introducing adequate programmes to reduce the number of people who are unemployed. We expaned the technical training school progra111111e for this year.

It is designed exactly to help overcome that. The whole operation of the trade schools is the same purpose and all of the assistance to all of the educational institutions. What are we trying to do? Mr. Speaker, in two years 1 you cannot correct and create the millennlnum in two years, ~ Look at what is being done in connection with the Lower Churchill.

When the honourable gentlemen left, when their government was tumed out of office they were just about to sign a lease with BRINCO on the Lower Churchill and the Lower Churchill would have gone ahead under fantastically ridiculous terms and conditions similar to the Upper and the power would be gone out of Newfoundland and all we would have the right to reclaim would be a very small amount. We would iet no sales tax. We would get no gasoline tax. We would have 1416

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 438 NM - 2 no good out of the power. It would all go to Quebec, following on the Upp~r Churchill. Now the Upper Churchill.a number of years ago, and looking back at that era in time perhaps there could have been a lot of excuses found for it, but not for the Lower Churchill. But when the honourable gentlemen left office they were about the give the Lower Churchill away to BRIRCO, to sell the power at a cheap rate to Hydro Quebec. We stopped that. We stopped that. We have had the matter properly studied.

We said the power is to come to Newfoundland if there is any way in the world for that to happen 9 and that mattetj- MR. MURPHY: What did we lose on the Upper Churchill? MR. CROSBIE: Oh! We are only losing $165 million a year there. MR. MURPHY: Thct is nothing. MR, CROSBIE: But we would have lost the Lower Churchill if there had not been a change in administration because they, Mr. Speaker, would have gone ahead at the Lower Churchill on BRINCO's terms and would have signed the lease that we refused to sisn.

What is happening now on the Lower Churchill the honourable aentlemen will know a lot more about before this session is over. We put the interests of Newfoundland first and applied some intelligence to the situation. Found out first what happened on the Upper Churchill, what exactly were the terms and conditions and what would happen to us and what was happening and the Lower Churchill will go ahead, make no mistake about that, but when it goes ahead the power will be coming to Newfoundland, except for any surplus that might temporarily go somewhere else for a few years until we can use it all.

That is our policy. That is creating employment. We have not seen the jobs yet but that will create, that decision will create,in this province, jobs from here to eternity as a result of the bringing of the Lower Churchill power to this province. There will be jobs from here to eternity caused by that decision. You do not see them yet but you will. You will and they will be here forever, permanent jobs, the creation of industry because we will have power. 1417

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 438 NM - 3 It is the same situation with oil and gas and the situation we found on oil and gas and what the pre~ent ~olicy is and what we hope the future will be. The new forest policy, which is going to be talked about in another debate: For twenty-three years honourable gentlemen opposite could come up with nothing on the forests, nothing. They had several royal commissions, the last one a slieveened, weasel document done by a Mr. Rousseau, no connection with the member for Labrador West.

Now in two years there is at last before the House · a plan for the control and development of our forests that mak~some sense and should lead to their proper utilization. That is a job creator. There are jobs already created by that, bY, our forest policy, but even more in the future. These are the things. You cannot look at just two years and say; ''What has been done in two years?" Wait and see what is being done in five. More important,wait and see what the effects are in twenty­ five years and thirty years of the kinds of thinltS we are doing.

Honourable gentlemen opposite are weasling around the province minging, cringing, crying and complaining and trying to create an impression that nothing is being done. Just look at the money spent alone. Honourable gentlemen opposite used to be known as pretty free spenders. You know they spent a lot of money. In 1971-1972, the total spent 1µ Newfoundland on current and capital account revised - $535 million, a considerable sum of money. At the end of the end ~f the year they had not spent enough. All the stuff the7dumped and slashed out and fired out and wasted in 1971-1972 still did not save them, $535 million.

In 1972-1973 - $589 million we have had to spend, maybe a bit . in excess of that. That is the original est;f.mate. In 1973-1974 the original estimates are $674 million. $139 million more than the amount spent by the government in 1971-19721 $139 million more this present year's budget was than the b11dget of 1971-1972 and the 1418

Ftbruary 25, 1974 Tape.No. 438 NM - 4 money spent a lot more wisely. Yet honourable gentlemen opposite try to pretend and go around the province pretending that nothing has happened and nothing is being done. The people know that this is not true. My guess is, Mr. Speaker, an election called tomorrow and we have all been trying to hold the Premier back, an election held tomorrow would see the wipe out of honourable gentlemen opposite, wipe out. AN HON. MEMBER: Annihilation. MR.. CROSBIE: Annihilation, with the exception of the member for Labrador South. He would get back in. He is an honourable, decent fellow.

AN HON. MEBERt- Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: He might get back in. He would have a fighting chance. So these are some of the programmes that we have introduced that have to do with employment and the employment of people. Now what about the third nonsensical provision of this non-confidente motion that is supposed to knock us to our knees, stunned by the brillance and the audacity of the concepts contained therein. Let us look at the third point. What is the third point?

The honourable gentlemen opposite regret our failure to introduce adequate progrannes to bring public services up to an acceptable level throughout all parts of this province. They must have been looking at ~erm 29. Term 29 read like that. We failed apparently to introduce adequate programmes to bring public services up to an acceptable level throughout all parts of this province. What tripe! What gufC Mr. Speaker, -in the year 2000 people will still be l,9oking at this province and we will be saying there is not an acceptable level of public services in this province.

There will never be a time when people are going to say there is an acceptable level of public services. You go to.Ontario now, they do not accept that they have got an acceptable level of public services even in Ontario or British Columbia or wherever. So an adequate level of public services is a bourgeois concept anyway. There will never be an acceptable level of public services. 1419

February 25, 1974 Tape No. 438 NM 5 But you would think, Mr. Speaker, looking at that and reading it that this crowd over here, the government here, had done nothing in the last two years to raise public services. I just pointed out that our budget this year, the year now ending,had $139 million in it more than the budget in 1971-1972 and that $139 million is being spent in the province. What is it being spent on? It is being spent on wages and salaries and:carrying on the government and in trying to establish public services throughout all parts of the province.

I could spend the next five hours, I will not but I could, outlining where the money is being spent - in Highways, in every department of government. Just look at Highways; the BurReo Road, the Bay D'Espoir Road, roads on the Burin Peninsula, roads in the District of White Bay South, the District of Green Bay and every district in the province, money being spent. $43 million last year spent on Highways throughout th£ province. Is that not raising the services? Does not $43 million spent raise the services a bit?

The Twillingate Causeway, the honourable gentleman's causeway opposite, completed and finished- and so on. In every district you look, the District of Ferryland, tremendous road building; the District of St. Mary's ignored for twenty-three years. You can hardly move down there but they are paving around down in St. Mary's District because of the member for St. Mary's. He agrees. Every district of the country, Mr. Speaker, we have spent money. $43 million last year on highways. Regional colleges - you know the-implication must be, ''l.ook they are discriminating against the rest of the province.

They are giving it all to St. John's." That is the implicit thought they want to give. Regional college in Corner Brook underway this year; Arts and Culture Centre at Stephenville underway this year. Everywhere you look around the province there is something being built or some money being spent on public services. 1420 .

February 25, 1974· Tape no. 439 Page 1 - MW Mil. CROSBIE: What about hospitals1 The Hon. Leader of the Opposition is trying to make a great point about hospitals, about what was being done in hospitals. Twillingate and Carbonear were not really started when we came in. They were a fantastic mi1hmash. There was an attempt to get them going just before the election. There were no proper contracts awarded and the rest of it. Both of.them are now well and successfully unde~ay. I turned the sod on the Carbonear Hospital in 1967, one of my first acts as the new Minister of Health.

It was to go with the then Premier, Mr. Smallwood,to Carbonear and we heaved the old sod over in 1967. I was a spectator. The act of sod-turning was committed by someone else, It took the Hon. Minister of Health, the Member for Carbonear, to get that off the road and .on the road in 1972, five years later. One thing the Minister of Health likes is hospitals. God! He loves hospitals! He wants more hospitals. Every time you turn around the son-of- a-gun is up with another hospital under his sleeve. That was Twillingate and Carbonear. There is a huge extension to Western Memorial underway.

Hospital Sciences, we know about that. What else is happening with hospitals. I mentioned the Mental Hospital extension that we have started. The planni~g is being done for Clarenville. Unfortunately from the financial point of view a big regional hospital is going to Clarenville. Fortunately for the honourable member that is underway. That was never started before. That va tarted and is underway now by this government. "Oh Promise Me" used to be the slogan from the honourable gentlemen opposite. Tha~ is Clarenville. Mr. Speaker, there is a twenty-five bed hospital recommended for Bonavista.

The tenders were called. Twenty-five is what is recommended by the people who are knowledgeable in the 1421

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 439 Page 2 field of health, twenty-five beds, the recommended hospital for Bonavista which is now connected by paved road to the rest of the island. AN HON. MEMBER: (InaudibleT. MR. CROSBIE: Thanks to Rossie Barbour. It is thanks to Rossie Morgan, not Rossie Barbour. There is recommended a twenty-five bed hospital. The extension to the outpatient facilities were to start last year. Tenders were called and there were no bids. The contractors are all too prosperous. They will be called again this spring. The outpatient facilities will go ahead, then the tventy-five beds will be built.

The Hon. Member for Bonavista South will go down there with his haumer and saw puttin~ in free labour and everything else on the place. Do not worry about Bonavista. That is in the cart. In Grand Falls the planning is underway for an extension which is needed in the Grand Falls Hospital. All these things are new things, very expensive financially. What else is being done? Community Health Centres: We are not providing adequate services at all around the province. These are all just things that are not providing any service at all. There 1a a hospital extension under construction at Come-by-Chance.

There is a community health centre completed at Port Saunders, nearly completed at St. Alba.n's. There are community health centres completed and opened now on New World Island, Terrenceviile and Grand Le Pierre. Mr. Speaker, there is a new programme for physiotherapy in op~ration. It is starting now around the province in the rural areas. It is the Rural Physiotherapy Programme. My golly! I see a chicken scratch here about other extensions that are planned. Doctors' Residences: There are doctors' residences completed at Western Bay, Codroy and so on and so on it goes.

That ia just health but still the honourable gentlemen opposite want to 1422

February 25. 1974 Tape no. 439 Page pretend that we are failing to bring public •e:rvices up to an acceptable level. We plead guilty to that. Mr. Speaker. in a sense.because it will take twenti-five or fifty years at 3 least to bring the services-'"up here to an acceptable level. , Even if you had all the money you wanted in the world to do it, it would take physically and constructionwise and so on somewhere between ten and twenty years even to be on the conse:rvative side, even to be careful and cautious in what you are estimating. There are new programmes. air service subsidies to Fogo and St.

Brendans subsidizing the fares for the people who have to travel tiack and forth to Fogo Island and St. Brendans and Change Islands. There is no thanks to the honourable gentlemen opposite. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudiblet. MR. CROSBIE: The Labrador subsidy is carried on., Labrador AiNays is carried on. Recreation services have been assisted all over the province. There has been a new electric subsidy scheme instituted for stadiums. Senior citizens homes are being assisted to get underway in four or five locations around the province. I think one is in the Grand Bank Area. I forget where all the others are.

There are so many: St. Anthony, Lewisporte, Stephenville Crossing; these are senior citizens homes being assisted to establish - AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. CROSBIE: Schools, DREE schools. non-DREE schools, all kinds of schools. Marine Service Centre at Harbour Grace and in other areas. Gigantic housing programmes - I am not going to take the time to give all the statistics. We just had a tremendous year in housing.

When honourable gentlemen opposite see the estimates i>r housing this year and the new programme is explained, they will be delighted with the extension of the housing services about the province. 1423

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 4J9 P'age 4 There is a reintroduction of the Provincial/Municipal Street Paving Prograame, the fifty/fifty programme ~topped by honourable gentlemen opposite in 1968 a~d resumed again by the present administration in-1972. There is the service they stopped and did away with. It is now re-instituted. I could go on and on. I am going to conclude _this part of my remarks by giving a bit more information on Municipal Affairs. Municipal Affairs are always hiding its light under a bushel. Now I am not going to say anything about what is in the estimates for Municipal Affairs.

I just want to explain {I hope the press will cover it. It is a little known fact) some of the things that have been done as a result of the policies of this government in Municipal Affairs in the last two years, not done through the estimates at all, done through the guarantee of loans for municipalities. First,water and sewer projects; In 1972-1973, ve guaranteed bank Loans totalling $10,058,000 for water and sewer projects and street reconstruction and paving. In 1973-1974, we guaranteed an addition.al $10,195,000.

In the same year we continued with additional guarantees that had to be given to continue and finish projects, $5,840,000. The total amount of aoney provided through the credit of the government to municipalities for water and ~ewer projects and for paving and road reconstruction in the last two years is $26,093,000 of which $5,840,000 was additional costs to projects started before we came into office. Now, Mr. Speaker, we look at water and sewerage alone and if you look at the figures spent between 1960 and 1973i we spent in 1972, water and sewerage alone, $7,198,000, guaranteed loans.

In 1973, we spent $12,720,000 for water and sewerage __ alone. These are the two largest amounts spent on water and sewerage projects in the province since 1960. I have the figures here for every year, with one exception. In 1971, a total of $20,485,000 was started in water and sewerage projects, because . it was election year and honourable gentlemen opposite went berserk. They were terrified 1424

February 25, 1974 Tape no. 439 Page 5 that they were going to loae. They did loae. They were properly terrified. They tried to cling on, of courae, a• we all know for three or four months afterwards by the toenail• and the fingemaila and the hangnails. Theytried to tay into office. Except for the year 1971, when $20,000,000 was authorized (We have had to raise the money to pay off that $20,000,000.

We have had to go to the bon4 market and we are going now to repay those banks loans that were guaranteed) the greatest amounts ever spent in water and sewerage projects throughout the province was 1972, $7,198,000; 1973, $12,720,000. In the same two years,in 1972, we spent $2,860,000 in guarantee• for street paving and $3,315,000 in 1973 in guarantees for treet paving work. As 1 aay the total of the water and sewerage, paving and street reconstruction, over the two years guaranteed by us, $26,093,000. 1 have liata here of who were a•aisted by these amo\Ults. Mr.

Speaker, in 1972-1973, in that financial year, forty-one municipalities received guarantees for these worthy purposes from the government. They go from Milltown to the head of Bay d'Espoir, $1,000,000; Comer Brook, $1,000,000 and then they go right across · the island - I do not have the time and it would bore honourable gentlemen uo hear every name. Forty-one municipalities received assistance 1425

February 25, 197~ Tape 440 PK - 1 from the government, 'most of them for water and sewerage projects, some of them for street paving and reconstruction. Lumsden, Grand Bank, Goose Cove, Deer Lake, Fortune, Ca~bone~r, Harbour Grace, Bonavista, Whitbourne, Twillingate, Port aux Choix, Seal Cove, White Bay, Musgrave Harbour, Port Saunders, Fleur de Lys, Crowhead, Howley, Coachman's Cove, Marystown, Burin, Corner Brook, Upper Island Cove, Cooks Harbour, Rants Harbour, Lawn, Botwood, Dunville, Bellburns, Daniel's Harbour, St. Albans, Hare Bay, Nippers Harbour, Stephen9ille, St.

Lawrence, Carmanville, Badgers Quay, Valleyfield, Pool's Island, Wesleyville, Wareham - forty-one. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Yes, if he wants to scrutinize I can send him a copy. Then last year, not a jit or a tottle for Harbour Main. Last year, not last year, the financial year that is just ending,the total amount $10,195,000 guaranteed for water and sewer or street reconstruction and paving to thirty municipalities. Now these are public services all across the province never normally considered as something the government have done~not in our estimates.

Corner Brook,$1 million; Botwood, Glenwood, Harbour Grace, Carbonear, Springdale, Deer Lake, Twillingate, Happy Valley, Peterview, Mount Pearl, Kings Point, Hants Harbour, Grand Falls, Badgers Quay, Valleyfield, Wesleyville, Appleton, Whitbourne, Stephenville Crossing, Bishops Falls, Victoria $500,000 the start of a water and sewerage system in Victoria, Placentia $1,100,000 - the necessary extension and expansion in making safe the water ~ystem in Placentia; Lewisporte, Grand Falls, the Goulds, Port aux Choix, St. George's $2,800,000, St.

George's who for the last five years has been begging and pleading for a water and sewerage system because of the sewera~e problem and all the problems in St. George's. That was authorized and started now in St. Geor~e'R, Hearts Desire, Flower's Cove, Gander, thirty of them in the year that is now coming to an end. And in continuing loans that were started two or three years ago and will still continue because of increased costs another $5,840,000 - Bonavista, for example, being $1 million - I could read the rest of the names but it is not necessary. All over the province we are 1426

February 25, 1974 Tape 440 PK - 2 doing what we can to assist municipalities to establish public works and services to an adequate degree. So that is $26 million that is not in the estimates at all. Then the Hon. the Leader wants the membe~s to kick us out and throw us out because we are not-doing what we can to introduce adequate programmes to bring public services up to an acceptable level throughout this province. What absolute tomfoolery: You know, what does he expect the people of Newfoundland to believe? I will tell him what the people of Newfoundland believe.

They believe we now have the most negative,obstructive and destructive opposition,using the most vicious tactics of any that we have ever had in our history. that is what they believe and they are on to it and they know what it is all about and they know what is happening. If we are not out, Mr.

Speaker, on the "Open Line Programmes" and the rest of it, it is because we are too busy in here trying to get on with the job to clear up the Augean stables they left behind and bring this province forward into the Twentieth and the Twentieth-First Century; two things that are in our long range that will be good for this province. So all three of the reasons advanced by the Bon. the Leader of the Opposition in his non-confidence motion are laughable. They are a joke. They are poor jokes. We should not have to spend our time knocking down his specious reasoning. Now what about DREE? Every now and then, Mr.

Speaker, we have heard a little murmur from the Member for White Bay South who thinks he knows all about DREE. hHee: Hee! Hee! I know all about DREE. That little Wille-e-e. He knows precious little about DREE. Precious little.M Now let us get DREE. Let us look at DREE. The honourable gentleman every now and then alleges that there has been some lack of spending by us on DREE, in the last two years. Look! Look at the figures: In 1971-1972, the two years combined, the honourable gentleman opposite spent $53~1 million through OREE, $53.1 million, 1970-1971-1972,or an average of about $27 million per year.

That is what was actually spent. Not what was in the estirnates, what was actually spent? In 1972-1973 our DREE ~pending, this Rovernment's OREE spendinR,and the honourable 1427

February 25, 1974 'tape 440 PK - 3 gentleman alleges we are not spending the funds that we can get from DREE, of about $37 million. That is last year. In the present year it will be about $36 million. So there has been a significant increase in DREE spending in the last two years, Mr. Speaker, c0111pared to the previous two. Now what about dropped balances and DREE spending?

In 1970-1971, when the honourable gentlemen opposite were in power . and when the now Member for White South was the minister in charge of this department, the Cracker Jack from White Bay South, we had a huge amount of money put in the estimates for DREE spending, a big block vote. At the end of the year $31.5 million of that was not spent, was a dropped balance, it had to be dropped because it was not spent by the end of the year $31,5 million. That is the honourable the Member for White Bay South's record in DREE spending . This self-styled expert in DREE, Hee! Hee! Ho! Ho!

This is what happened to the honourable member's spending in 1970-1971, $31.5 million . In 1971-1972 we had a dropped balance of $11 million. He was less ambitious in 1971-1972. In 1972-1973 the drop balance was about $10 million, less than the honourable gentleman's. This year as far as we can see it may be about $5 million. In other words, we are spending more and more and the reason why there may be a drop balance of about $5 million are the DREE schools.

The honourable gentleman knows the tremendous difficulties in getting them going and getting them through to school boards, the authoritizes and all the business that has to go on with DREE schools. AN HON. MEMBER: ••.• Port Saunders. MR. CROSBIE: Oh, yes, the marine science centre in Port Saunders was never in the -DREE. So when the honourable gentleman opposite talks about DREE just rememl;,er those facts. His dropped balance in 1970-1971, $31.5 million. In 1971-1972, $11 million. Last year it was $10 million and this year we expect it will be about$ 5 million. Then remember his spending record in DREE.

More money has been spent in the last two years from DREE than was ever spent by the honourable gentleman opposite, who is suppose to be the Prince Charming of DREE. He is not quite the Father 1423

February 25, 1974 Tape 440 PIC - 4 of DREE, the Father of DREE was, I suppose, Mr. Smallwood . or his father or someone. The honourable gentleman is always acting as though he had a great DREE record. His OREE record was shameful. it was an atrocity, it was atrocious, it was dieasterous. That was his DREE record. The honourable the Member for Grand Falls when he was in the portfolio and the honourable Member for (I do not know who looks after it now) Rural Development looks after some and the Hon.

Br.other Doody, the honourable junior Member for Harbour Main.that is who is aeein~ that the DREE funds get spent and the better orga•ization of the government. There is one other thing, Mr. Speaker, I am not going to speak much longer. I do not believe in long addresses. There is so much against this resolution that it is impossible for me, I have skipped a lot, I have skipped data that I could have expanded but I want to come to one final point, Mr. Speaker, and that is the attitude of the opposition, then I will conclude.

One of the attitude's of the opposition, is well illustrated by the Member for White Bay South. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: The honourable gentleman cannot hurt my feelings beciuse I expect no better from him than he deserves·~o have expected from him and that is _more negative than zero, so he never hurts my feelings.

Now the honourable gentleman the other day in an active, destructive and malicious, in a malicious and destructive act sent a letter to the municipalities of Newfoundland alleging or stating that $100 million a year was available to be spent in DREE in Newfoundland and for them all 1".- to get their projects in and get a crack at this $100 million. MR. COLLINS: He wrote that letter of apology I presume,did he? MR. CROSBIE: I do not know if he has written the letter of apology yet or not. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, the position as I understand it and I can be corrected, is that DREE,in the new arrangements, the ~eneral development agreement and the new arrangements under it want to confine their 1429

February 25, 1974 Tape 440 PK - 5 expenditures to expenditures that relate to a development opportunity. It has to relate to an economic development opportunity. There is no great DREE pile of money in the skies for schools or technical colleges or water and sewerage or roads or anyt~ing of that nature, it has to be related to the development oP'Portunities. We have no pledge, Mr • . Speaker, from Ottawa that there is $100 million a year available and no one in this government have ever said that there is $100 million a year available. Am I correct in that, Mr. Speaker?

Never once has anyone in this government said that there was $100 million available because we have never been told that. It has never been stated to us that there is $100 million of money available from DREE every year for us to spend in Newfoundland. It is not true. There is not. Their guidelines to us are a lot less than that, considerably less. In the new arrangements it all has to be related to the development opportunity. So that the letter that the honourable gentleman wrote to the municipalities of Newfoundland is an incorrect lette~ 1430

February 25, 1974 Tape 441 He did not check his information with the Minister for Industrial Development or anyone else in the government. He did not want to check because he thought he was on a good point, that he could embarrass the government, that by exciting the hopes of all the _-s,. IB-1 community and town councils on the island with the hopes that there was $100 million a year fund, he hoped to get them thinking that if their projects were not accepted that we were turning down their projects or that we would not spend some of this mythical $100 million on their project.

Now, if that is not one of the meanest and moat despicable acts of a public man in the lat few years, I would like to hear one that tops it. He does not check his infomation with the government because he does not want to. He wants to circulate throughout the country an untrue rumor that there is $100 million a year in here and they can all get their water and sewerage and stadium and public facilities and services if they just write in, that this great Uncle Ottawa· in the sky is providing this $100 million.

It has never once been stated by thia government or a member of it that there was anything like $100 million available. It ha been stated repeatedly in this House that it all has to relate to development opportunities. That is the position on DREE. We have a general - AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: Who lays down that criteria? MR. CROSBIE: The criteria is laid down by Ottawa and we do our best to deal with them and see what we can get. MR. W. ROWE: Inaudible. MR. CROSBIE: The special areas, Mr. Speaker, as the honourable gentleman knows,are gone. There are no special areas.

You can have a development opportunity in any area of the province. If you do, then you can get services that associate with the development opportunity,including Labrador. The special areas are gone but that does not ~ean to say - 1431

February 25, 1974 Tape 441 1B-2 and the honourable gentlemen opposite well knew it - that there is $100 million spondoolicks available for water and sewerage and every­ thing else. There is not. There will be available monef for matters of infrastructure that Ottawa agree qpon, that they put into an agreement with us that relates~o a development opportunity. That is why all this argument about DREE schools in a large sense is arguing about nothing because they are only going to finance a school on a very rare occasion. That is if you can tie it directly to a economic development opportunity.

That is very difficult to do with schools. Now, the honourable gentleman deliberately misled &I'd tried to mislead viciously the people of this province. That is why I come to my final point: The attitude of the oppoaition. From the start, two years ago, Mr. Speaker, they have been negative, destructive and malicious, careless of the truth, cynical and abusive, for two years. Now, I was in this House from 1966 onward and in 1971 and 1972 we had some fierce battles in this House with the last administration, particularly the Premier.

There was never in the House in those days the poor spirit that I have seen exhibited in this Bouse since the election of January, 1972. The spirit here today is completely unlike to the spirit when we were hacking with, Mr. Smalhrood who was a doughty fighter and when we did not hold back and there were no words minced. There was a different spirit in this House. Nothing vent on in this House such as the Leader of the Opposition the other day saying, "Oh, how many scotchs, Premier?", when the, Premier ade an interjection.

Never in all my life or experienced in any Parlicllllellt or House of Assembl~ have I ever heard, Mr. Speaker, or heard of a remark of that nature, that insulting nature, being made to any member of the House by any member in the House, It is just not done. It is despicable, it is completely despicable. AN FIONOURABLE ~~F.R: When was that done? 1432

February 25, 1974 Tape 441 MR. CROSBIE: Look at your Hansard. Never mind where it came fr0111. It is a despicable comment. Never has that kind of personal commeot - the honourable member for Bel~ Islilnd with his constant talk about - well, you know booze parties and this kind of thing. Personal abuse and insult use are the most contemptible tactics. It has been the principle of the operating,modus operandi of the members of the opposition opposite with some exceptions. The honourable member for Twillingate does not lend himself to it. He is certainly one that does not, nor does the honourable member