r- ·- _____ _. ____ ·-~ .. PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY ·- Volume 1 Number 13 4th. Session 34th. Genetal AsSembly VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, MARCH 3, 1910 SPEA,KER: THE HONOURAIIIL£ GEORGE W. CLARKE ------ -------

Y~rch 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 164 The House met at 3:00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Page 1 HON. J. R. S~~100D (Pr emie r): Mr. Sp~aker, I rise to a point of personal P!.i.vilege and that is for the purp-:lse o~ makin!! an explanation to the House of a statcmen~ I made in the debate yes~rday in connecti~n ~ith the revelation made to the House of the fact that a co=ittee of Cabinet had been appointed by me to negotiate the draftin~ of the rudl refinery project with the promoters, the Shaheen Natural Resources Or!!anizat~n.

Not only did I appoint that committee or subco=itt '"e cf Cabinet, but I sup;~esm.ed that \~hen the House opened, they should: be the Olles to present it to the House amtl explain it and defend it aT'Id it was agreed in Cabinet that this should be':' done and so when the Bill \~as introduced in my name, it was in my name. -·r -helieve tll\iat the Bill was introduced into the House and given its second readin~ and on ~ ~hat occasion I announced that it had been agreed by Cabinet that the co:'ml'ittee · 'll~embers should be the ones to present the explanation and defence cf the Bill tro the House .

So it was on that occasion by Cabinet agreement 1-:ithout any breach o£: Cabinet secrecy or Cabinet solidarity but by Cabinet consent and agreement that IT announced to the House that two or three of the han. gentleman ~rho had negrotiated the draft agreement, and had presented it to the Cabinet should be ~ h e ones who would present it to the House and eJ-..l'lain and defend it and it ~:as . thus on that occasion and in that 1-~ay that I did announce that they were a cot:!mi:!t.tee of Cabinet appointed by me to ne~otiate the dr3ft of the a~reement and br• brin~ it to Cabinet and to bring it to the House.

It Yas certainly no brea~h of Cabinet secrecy or of Cabinet solidarity, because it t~as done with the kmo,.·led~e and consent of the Cabinet and the knowleG ge and consent of the co~mittee .of Cabinet in question. The three han. ~entleman, the th•en llinister of Justice, the present hon. member for Burin: the then t~nister of" Health, the present han. member for St. John's West and the then Hinister withrout Portfolio, the present han. member for Hl!l!lbe!' East. They were the committee, :together \-lith the President of the Counc-r:(., the presen~ President of the Council and ~'linister of Justice.

Althou~h most of the active •.·or!, was done, as already has brocn announced in this House by the -three han. n:er.~bers whose names I mentioned firs ·t. There was no ·t:rc -ach of Cabinet ·secrecy . ·.

March 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 164 Page 2 and no breach of Cabinet solidari~Y- MR._ t,TE:tLS_:_ The Premier is vron~ot :in sayin~ what he said last night. MR. ~"'ALLlW.9!>_:_ In the present session, -'!lf the House, it was the:.hon. gentleman who announced it. But two years ago, wfuen the legislation was introduced, I announced that it was with the consent and knowledge of the Cabinet. Therefore, there is no breach. '· MR. CROSBIE: The Premier was wrong Lmst night. MR. S~LlJOOD.:.__ Mr.

Speaker, t-!hile I omn on my feet, I should like to express a very cordial word of 1..•elcome to sol!le~ B:ifty-four history students in Grade IX at St. Edward's School in Bell Island •. These students are acco~panied by their history teacher, Sister Alice ~ilson. ~~e are extremely happy to have these students with us. V.'hen you get thirty,, ·forty or fifty students, I ~>m always under the disadvantage that I can see onily some of them. I imagine that some others are up in the gallery behind me.. I cannot see.

I am very happy to welcome them here to the People's House ,, I am sure all the hon. members are equally happy. I do not know anything ~e enjoy more each day, when these students, come from various parts of our Province ~ to visit us and sit in the galleries. I do not kr,ow anything that we enjoy mo:c;e than their comming here.

They do bring a breath of freshness - a breath arr youth, which is very welcome in this Chamber of old men and in the eyes of tlhe students, I would think that the youngest hon. member is an old man, twentty-six, twenty-seven or twenty-eight years of a~e will be looked upon as pretty we:lH getting along in years. They have the breath of youth and beauty - espec:i:".:ill.ly beauty and intelligence and clean­ minded idealism is a treat for the t~eai:}y and jaded hon. members of the House.

I am especially int~rested to kn~7 that their history teacher is with them 11nd to know that - I hear from the hon .. rntinister who is the member for the district that the teacher, Sister Alice l-lilson t:.eaches history, perhaps exclusively or almost exclusively and I am delip.hted bD -know that in this school, St. Edward's at Bell Island, there is a teacher concentmatin~, specializing in the teaching of history. To tell you the truth, if I w~e to become a teacher tomorrow, I would be torn between wanting to be a teacher · oof history and wantinp, to be a teacher of one or two other subjects.

Certainly hD$tory would be hieh on the list and especially if it were Nct,;foundland hisrmry. I do hope that the school people :that

!-larch 3rd. , 19 70 Tape no. 164 •' Page '-:" are here today, young women, young men will enjoy our session. I hope they will stay lon~ enough to hear sorJe oratory that is coming a little later on in the afternoon and in l!'.a~y years in a dim and distant futur~; they will be able to say, oh! yes, I was in the Rouse of Assembly and I heard him speak myself and so I will have that in mind with the audience I had in the gallery, when I will be speaking later 011 in the day. The Leader of the Opposi ti,on is not here. If he '!Jere I would hurl - I ,..auld hurl a chaL:.en~e across the floor at him.

The challenge I would throt~ at him ~~auld be to get up and disa~ree "'ith l!'.e. I woulc dare him to dis.::gree with !D.e. I would dare ' hin to disagree ~:ith me, when I say that t;e all t.;elcor-e these students. He all think here that they are brip;ht. intelli~_ ent and p,ood looking and I "Would d:u:e .. bf:m to contradict me and for once at any rate the Leader of the Opposition would be gettin~ up neatly and modestly agreeing with me and that would be great pleasure for me to have the Leader of the Opposition in full and perfect agreement ~~th me. However the Leader of the Opposition probably has the flu.

I am surrounded. Hr. Speaker by veaklings. All around t!te on both sides of the P.ouse men are going off getting sick, getting the flu, going to bed, incapacitated. They are just a crmld of weaklinp;s. They cannot take it. They do not seem to have the robust vigor of some of us other NeYfoundlanders in this Chamber. Well we are perhaps tougher and you cannot kill us. So the Leader of the Opposition is t1 victim today and so I have no doub~ that perhaps the hen. member representin~ the district that lies next door, next door to nell Island; namely the great district of St. John's East (Extern).

I have no coubt that he -,zi:p. be'otho:.oi!e w'llo will S?eak •. I-sould:hardl;r think t:b:at an outharbour man, that a bny man, that a bay noddy from Gander would spealk. today. I t~ould think that it t·70uld be a to~'nY, a nearby outharbour r..an fmc St. John's East (Extern). An~~a'j the House is waiting with bated breath n hear ~1ho is roing to speak for the Opposition to agree with me, 'lo.'hen I say chat we welcome these students, everyone of us and 'We are glad that they are here today. MR. HIC~!_: Hell, ~ir. Speaker, it is mDt often we agree but the Premier is -right today.

I take much pleasure in b~balf of my colleagues in welcoming the students from St. Ed!.'ard 's, alonr. t-:i th - ~'heir teacher, !'ister Alice Hilson • · \·!e hope that they "Will have an enjoy.?hlc Sltay and .?s the rter~icr has already ' indicate.!!

-March 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 164 Pa~e & they are in for a rather interesting afternoon. I understand the Premier is going to continue his speech so they are in for a treat. I am not sure what kind of a treat that will be. I will h;ve to let the students decide for themselves. I can agree 'dth him too, when he says that you bring some fresh air to this Chamber. I do not think any of us on this side will object to that.. !ole need some fresh air here from time to time. Indeed that air does get rather old and musty on occastons. MR.

SK{LLWOOD: 1-.'hat about when hon. members sometimes happen to take three days off':to get some fresh air outside? MR. RICKEY: }!r. Speaker, when you are in the line of fire, it is a job, I adcit to a;Journ so any of us on this side m:!.~ht ':ell come dm:n uith the flu. But, Mr. Speaker, the important thin~ is that we come down only '~ith the ilu. At least we can come back. However I do take much pride in associating myself with the remarks made by the hon. Premier. RON. S. A. NEA_R.l_niiniste~ of tJelfare): Mr.

Speaker, as member for the district of Bell Island, may I add my OYn welcome to the sons and daughters of my good friends on Bell Island. Now, Hr. Speaker at first hand these younr: pecple can see in action the law makers responsible for so much legislation that has meant so much to every resident of what Yas once the second lar~est municipality in Newfoundland. PRESENTING REPORTS OF STAt."DING Al\ll SELECT COM::·!ITil:ES . H.ON. W. J. KEOUGH (__!1inist~_!_._E_f__Labou_!l_:_ Hr. Speaker, I be~ leave to table the annual report of the Horkmen's Compensation Bo&rd for the year ending December 31st., 1969. ~N.

E~Q~S (Minister of Fi nancel : Mr. Speaker, eection 32, subsection 2 of the Revenue and Audit Act, I table herewith the report of the Guaranteed Loans paid during the current year. NOTICE OF P-OTION_ .MR. HICKEY:. !-!r. Spe~ker, I would like to move the followinp: resolution seconded by my colleague the bon. ~ember for Gander: '"'lo.'HEREAS the bon. member for St. John's East (Extern) was suspended from this House on April 2nd., 1968, concerning a statement r.ade by ·the hon. the Premier and ; /27

~tarch Jrd., 1970 Tape no. 164 Page 5 AND

WHEREAS the rules of this House state that this type of languape is unparliamentary; AND

WHEREAS the hon. the Premier used the same type of language iu this bon. House on February 26, 1970 and 1o.':aS not penalized; BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that you Honour direct the hon. the Premier to withdraw his remark, unqualified and failin~ this 1that this House suspend the hon. the Premier for three sitting days." I a~ not suggesting your Sonour that his pay be cut. MR. SPEAKER: It appears to me from reading this resolution and I thank the hon. member for giving me a copy of f~ in advance.

It appears that from reading this resolution which has just been g:!~n notice of that this is simp~-Y there are other reasons, but the one meason that I am going to give now as to why the resolution is not acceptable is t~ fact that this is simply a chaHenp:e of the ruling of the Chair of sometiJ:le_ <.aJ!O. There t~as a ruling uith t~hic~1 th~ hon. disagrees. The time to do that, :il.f the Speaker's ruling is to be chnllenr.ed is right there and then and not later :il;.n the same sittinr. Clr on the next day.

For that one reason alone, this is not: 'in order and also it is just revi\•l.l:"~ something on which the House has alreart!y made a decision seycral cay:; ago. For that reason particularly, I cannot :allow the resolution to go on the 0rder Paper - the notice of the resolution tro r,o on the Order Paper. ANSllEnS TO QUE$TIONS

March 3, 1970 Tane Pl6S Pal!;e 1 MR. SMALLI~OOn: ~r. Sneaker, on the Qrder Paner of today Question No. 136. in the name of the hon. member for St" John's WP.st add~essed to me.

(1) Did the Premier infort:t Atlantic B..:rewing Como any Limited that they had an exemption or concession 2ranted bv tmP r.overnment exemoting them from paying the profit of the Net.rfoundland ;rmd Labrador Liquor Commission on sales of beer as claimed by Atlantic Bre"~Jing C.Company T.imi ted and as reported in Item 69 of the Report of the Auditor r.e:meral to the House of Assembly for the financial year ended Narch 31st. l'f(ti.9? The ans'l.ler Hr. Sneaker is:. No. the Premier did not so inform Atlantic Bre'l.ling Comnany.

The Premier did infonm the Atlantic Brewin2 Companies that they 'l.lould be exemnt: totally exempt fro:nn Newfoundland \.overnm:!nt taxes for a period of t'l.lo years from the commencemerrtt of their nroduction. Certainlv the profit made by the Liouor Bo&rd on beer would not he forgiven, would not be given uo by the Liquor Board.

(2) If rumv such exemotion or concession was granted- and there 1s a reference in on>~ bv the way 1 to the reoort to the Auditor General to the House of Assembiw. I read the report and I read the rP.f.eren~e and T was a little surnrised roo sav the least, a little surprised so say the very least, I was a little su•1~rised that the Auditor r.eneral made no effort, or if he made any effort I ha:'d no knotvl~dF'.e of his having made anv effort to contact me and confirm - allo~r me to confirm or othen-rise 1 the alle­ gation made by someone evidently. I wa$ not approached by the Auditor General from beginning to end.

(2) If any sucn1 exemption or concession was granted or purported to be granted bv the Premi: ~r t~as such excmntion or concession in writing or verbal only? It was neitlher. (3) \Vas anv Order-in-Counc 'il passed by the Executive Council grantinN. Atlantic Brewing Companv Limited any such exemption or concession? Not any· ,such exemotion or concession: ~o. The answer is no. A concession yes, but no·tt: such as suggested in this question. RON. E. N. DAWE (Ninister of }!unicipal i;\ffairs): ~!r. Sneaker, in answer to question No. 129 on today's Order Paoer.;, asked bv the hon. member for St. John's West.

The answer to the first part of ruhe question is: ves. And approval is being given by the Lieutenant-Governor-lin-Council, and that the following members will comprise members of the Board: Hr .. Aliston !-!ercer, ~fr. Harvey Thistle, , Hr. Lloyd Adams, Mr. Harvev Halton, '1r .. Arthur Snook, !lr. Rcginald·Gardner, 'Mr. 1\lex Reid. Mr. AHston ~1ercer as crlhai.rman. And the answer to the second 7..2 7

--1"'- ... ..,.., part of the question. It Yill be taking appropriate action to incorporate Local Improvement District of s~nnyside. HON. HAROLD STARKES ('!inister of Highways): I have the answer to question No. 83 on the Order Paper of February 26 asked by the hon. member for Fortune. ~~at is the total cost to date of the high~ay between Belleoram and Pool's Cove? The answer is $1, 272, 355. 1-lhat is the total mileage constructed? Fifteen point six miles.

(3) Hhat was the cost of surveying the road? - $94,658.

(4) What surveyors ·~ere employed? 1\'illett Engineering and Surveying Company, $9,711. The Denartment of Highways; $13,475, and Provincial Planning Associates, $71,472.

(5) What contractors were employed, and how much was paid to each and for what mileage in each case? The Department of High~ays five miles at a cost of S380,202. Curran & Briggs Limited - . 10-6 miles, $892,153. Has this Hifh~;ay been completed? The answer is1 yes:

(7) What progress has been made on the extension of the road to link up with the Harbour Breton road being constructed to the Read of Bay d'Esooir? The answer is three miles have been completed.

(8) Will this extension be completed in 1970? The snswer is: Government policy in this respect will be announced in due course. I also have for tabling Mr. Speaker, the answer to question No. (8) of February 23. HON. AlDEN XALO~EY (Minister of Fisheries): ~lr. Speaker, I have the answer to question (57) on the Order Paper of Tuesday February 24th, asked by the bon. the member for Burin. The answer to (

a) of the Ouestion is $1,010,859. (b) $576,864. Part two of the question; The losses to November 30, 1968 were paid in February, 1969 following receipt of audited financial statements. And losses to the 30th. November 1969 will he paid following receipt of audited statements and this il'; expected to be before the end of Harch, 1970. These are paynents under statutory agreements. ORnERS OF THF. DAY RON. W. R. CALLA ... J.fA.'J (:linister of ~!ines, A~riculture & Resources): Mr.

Speaker, before the House proceeds to Xotions nerhans I should reoort to the Rouse, just before coming in the Cha~ber I had a report from my officials indicatinP. perhaps new, ~erhaos-not new ... oil spills in the ocean at three points off the I Avalon Peninsula - and t~hat apoears to be rather severe damaee to sea-hi rds. Now Mr. Speaker, these renorts are cominP. day in and dav out now - any slight evidence that could he construed to indicate an oil spill or anvthtne of that nature is being reoorted rather quicklv bv ohviouslv concerned and ?so

March 3, 1970 Tape !!165 Pa~e 3 interested citizens. So I do not propose to continue informing the House in this way. But because of the widespread nature of the reports received during the past twenty-four hours, and because of the auparent implications of those three reports, I think it is proper the House should be informed at this point. On yesterday afternoon, the officials had reports from resi .dents of the St.

Shott's area who had nicked uo some two hundred (plus or minus) sea-birds, oil covered sea-birds, and i~ediatelv they were despatched to officials of the Provincial !Ulcl Life Service, and the Federal Biologist who wer.t to the area by aircraft - 'Jere unable to find any evidence of an oil slick.

Later in the afternoon the United States Naval Station at Argentia throu£h reported ;- ·- the ·R.C.X.P. to us that an oil slick had been sighted off Arp:entia. 'We diverted the aircraft to the Argentia area, and indeed discovered an oil slick about eight miles long, and averaging about one hundred yards wide, extending outward from the shore. It appeared that it might have originated from a shore insulation, and the R.c.~.P. are investigating that matter at our request. This morning there was a further report from Branch, St. Nary's officials to that area. And in addition Mr.

Stleaker, in resoect of all three reports we have been in touch several times with the Federal Department of Transport and with the minister's office. As I say Mr. Speaker, it rnav be thAt this is old oil from the spillage of a couple of weeks ago near St. Pierre, there is no wav of knowin2.

But I think I can fairly sav that ~very instance of what appears to be a da~age resulting from an oil slick now is being rePorted, and so the !louse -will not feel that -we are perhaps not aware of the courtesy that should be extended the House by reporting these matters in the House, I wish simply to explain that some of these matters ~thich will have currency in the press and rer>orts which will be coming from time to time, because I th-lnk many people are concerned about this matter now, need not necessarily reflect the seriousness of the situation.

If in our judgement, it aopears a very serious situation occurs, or has occurred, I certainly will Mr. Speaker, brin~ it here and rer>ort in this way pethaos, or an ans;-ter to a question. But I think we can expect manv many reports of this kind in the davs -·and weeks ahead, and if these reoorts ;Jj'/

March 3, 1970 Tape !1165 Par-e 4 find their way into the media which I think they will do - I think that is pretty well inevitable. But I did feel in this case because of the vridespread nature of the reports and because of the ~ossible damap.e, that it shoul~ be reported here, and I Rive the House the assurance Sir, that the matter is being thoroughly investi!!;ated, and that vre are in fact keeping a very close eye on these matters - and cont~nually informing the authorities, particularly the Federal authorities who aoncar to have responsibilitv and iurisdiction in the first instance. HR. JOHN CROSBIE: Hr.

Speaker, before proceeding to Orders of the Day, I would like to address a 'luestion to the hon. the President of the Council. who is the r~vernment leader in the Rouse - Has the hon. President of the Council anything to renort to the Independent Liberal members for Humber East, Bonavista North, St. Rarbe South, St. John's 1\'est, as to office.accommodation for us on the ninth or tenth floors of .the bui 1 ding here? Is such accommodation now beinl! arranged? 1-.'hat orogress is lheing made? Or are we to continue to be left with .1ust the corridor to roam in?

Is there anv nrogress in the office accommodation? out of order •. That the hon. member ham the right only to ask a ouestion at this stage that cannot be given notice of on the Order Paper, and secondly that it should be addressed to the Hini.ster whose responsibility the matter is. For both reasons I would suggest that fi't is out of orrler. MR. SPEAKER: Th~re has heen no reply ~aken of that. MR . THO}t~S ~ICKEY: ~!r. Speaker, I '~~uiild like to direct a ouestion to the hon. the }linister of Social Services amd Rehabilitatinn.

Can he give the House any information with re?,ards to t!ihe report of the buriel of our welfare recipient in a non-christian like fashiiDn? MR. SPEAKER: I think that question ~uld p,o on the Order Paper as the urgency of it is not that great. On motion of the President of tHID Council, A Bill, "An Act Further to Amend The Companies Act"', read a first tt:ime, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the Hon. :linister aif !'lines.

Agriculture and Resources, A Bill, "'An Act Respecting ~fotorized Stt~ow Vehicles, ' read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow... 7 J z On motion of the Han. Hinister aff ~fines, Agriculture and Resources,

·. \ ' .. : . ; .. March 3, 1970 Tape PHiS Page 5 A Bill, ''

An Act Further To Amend The Undeveloped Hinera1 Areas Act, '' read a first time , ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the President of the Council A Rill, •·An Act 'f'urther To Amend The

Summary Jurisdiction Act, " read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. ·. -------·--·- -··-·-··-· ---·---· ---·- ·-· -·· ------

March 3, 1970 Tape 166 Page 1 GC On motion of the hon. the Minister of Labour - A Bill. 1'An Act to Repeal the Trade Union (Emergency Provisions) Act, 1959", read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorro1v, On motion of the hon. the Minister of Provincial Affairs - A Bill, "An Act to Amend the Youth Administration Act, 1968", read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow, RON. J.R. S~1ALUlOOD · (PREHIER): Hr.

Speaker, 'With a heart overflowing with happiness, I am able to ·announce today, that the word is "Go" for the great refinery at Come-by-Chance, thal all obstacles have been removed at last. I propose next week, Cod willing, to invite Mr. John Shaheen and his whole group to come to St. John's to meet with the Cabinet, the Caucus and the Legislature and soon thereafter, I hope to introduce Legislation intv the House to make a slight amendment to the presently existing agreement which stands at the moment exactly as it was passed by the House two years ago.

I 'Want to ffiake another announcement, that in the third week of this present month of March, the forms will be commenced to be built for the ruunu~tion walls of the main ruill buildi~g ~~d the office buildi~g at Stephenville. In the tne third week of March, they will begin the building of the foundation wall forrns. On approximately the first of April, they will begin the pouring of concrete for those foundation walls with the arrival of the first ship at Stephenville from the United Kingdom carrying construction equipment and materials. Incidentally, the steel is due to arrive the first of July. Mr.

Speaker, some 300,000 cu. yds. - 660,000 tons -of concrete will be needed for the foundations of the buildings and the machines in the buildings. The pouring will commence around April 1, and be finished in early September. The steel which is due to arrive on the first ship - no, on a subsequent ship, around the first July, re-inforcing and structural steel will run to 7,500 tons. Other steel for the mill at Stephenville will run to another 500 tons. The t'Wo buildings will be finished by the end of the present year, ready to receive the machinery.

Indeed, some machinery will have been installed by the end of the present year. The big machine was started to ;7 J/f .r-·

March 3, 1970 Tape 166 Page 2 Ge be built in November last by Wambsley in England and it will be ready by December of next year. It takes ~enty to ~Jenty-two months to build it. This machjne, .this main machine is 351 inches wide - 351 inches. This is one inch narrower than the biggest paper machine on earth. The big 'Moby Joe' in Grand Falls is 301 inches, compared with 351 inches.

The machine itself - the main machine I am not talking of - is over 300 feet in length and it will be placed in the machine room which itself will be 700 ft. long, having to contain, of course, not only the main machine, but other machines connected with it. Production of paper ts now scheduled to commence in December of next year or January or February of the year after. At Lake Melvi]le, by June 1, 400 men will be working for the project and during this coming summer, $4.5 million worth of additional wood ~achinery will be landed at Melville, at Happy Valley. Mr.

Speaker, we were informed by the hon. the member for Humber East in this House a day or two ago that they have not even done the soil tests in Stephenville yet - that they have not even done the soil tests. No l:cnc!cr That is the information the hon. gentleman has. All they have done is burn oil and boughs and spend and spend and spend $500,000.00 burning oil and boughs. Wasted $5CO,OOO.QO burning oil and boughs. He dies hard. He dies hard. He is a die-hard all right. He cannot possibly be wrong. You might as well kill him as prove him wrong. He cannot be wrong.

All he did was spend $500,000.00 - half a million dollars burning boughs and oil to create a big smoke so that I would not be elected from Port au Port district. Lindrigans received the half million dollars from. Sir Robert McAlpine & Sons - the great English builders, who are alvays giving half million dollar gifts to firms to burn boughs and burn a bit of oil to make some black smoke to help·out a Leadership Convention. Mr. Speaker, the bon. gentleman's information is that the soil test - not even the soil testing is being done yet.

Let me inform him soil tests were completed in September past by Techmont Limited - Techmont Limited/ owned by the Crosbie family/in conjunction with(;~·c- (;,...Limited of Hontreal. ' 1

March 3, 1970 Tape 166 Page 2 GC be built in November last by Wambsley in England and it will be ready by December of next year. It takes twenty to ~venty-two months to build it. This machine, .this main machine is 351 inches wide - 351 inches. This is one inch narrower than the biggest paper machine on earth. The big 'Moby Joe' in Grand Falls is 301 inches, compared with 351 inches.

The machine itself - the main machine I am not talking of - is over 300 feet in length and it will be placed in the machine room which itself will be 700 ft. long, having to contain, of course, not only the main machine, but other machines connected with it. Production of paper is now scheduled to commence in December of next year or January or Februa•y of the year after, At Lake Melville, by June 1, 400 men will be working for the project and during this coming summer, $4.5 million worth of additional wood machinery will be landed at Melville, at Happy Valley. Mr.

Speaker, we were informed by the hon. the member for Humber East in this House a day or two ago that they have not evEn done the soil tests in Stephenville yet - that they have not even done the soil tests. No ... That is the information the hon. gentleman has. All they have done is burn oil and boughs and spend and spend and spend $500,000.00 burning oil and boughs. Wasted $500,000.00 burning oil and boughs. He dies hard. He dies hard. He is a die-hard all right. He cannot possibly be w•ong. You might as well kill him as prove him wrong. He cannot be wrong.

All he did was spend $500,000.00 - half n million dollars burning boughs and oil to create a big smoke so that l would not be elected from Port au Port district. Lindrigans received the half million dollars from Sir Robert McAlpine & Sons - the great English builders, who are always giving half million dollar gifts to firms to burn boughs and burn a bit of oil to make some black smoke to help out a Leadership Convention. Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman's information is that the soil test - not even the soil testing is being done yet.

Let me inform him soil tests were completed in September past by Techmont Limited - Techmont Limited/ ,- c• -r owned by the Crosbie family/in conjunction with,~n- ,,.., Limited of ~!ontreal. ·

March 3, 1970 Tape 166 Page 3 GC Mr. J.C. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, or information, is the Premier suggesting that I have anything to do with it? MR. SMALLI{OOD: It -says the Crosbie family. I do not know what shareholders there are of the Crosbie family. The Crosbie family o~~ed Techmont Ltd. MR. CROSBIE: Well, Mr. Speaker, on a point of information, I have no shares in that company and no connection ~~th it. MR. SMALLWOOD: I did not suggest the hon. gentleman did. I am saying - I am informing the hon. gentleman's faithful follower, who cried bitter tears in the Leadership Convention.

Tears streamed down his face. Yes, I saw them. When the hen. the member for St. John's West lost the Leadership constest, the hen. gentlem2n's tears streamed down his face and for his information, that is the one whose tears streamed down his face - I now inform him that he is wrong. Once again, he is wrong, when he says that they have not even done the soil tests yet. They finished the soil tests in September past and it was done by Techmont Limited of St. John's owned by the Crosbies or some of the Crosbies in conjunction with another firm of ,-. ,l . Montreal known asb~~ Lt . .,.... Limited.

So much for the accuracy of the han. gentleman. The bon. gentleman will find out to his cost. You will find out when I am good and ready to tell him. Well, he has told us about the election, so he should not ask me. Now, Mr. Speaker, with the great oil refinery at Come-by-chance, and the great paper mill at St~phenville, and another great paper mill - not so great, admittedly, 600 tons a day - three times as bigoas the Grand Falls paper mill when it was started; going up at Come-by-Chance.

I say with these three great industrial projects going up, the Government of this Province, and therefore, the people of this Province, are going to be committed to a very large sum of money. The credit of the Province will be committed in a very large amount for those three great industrial projects. Not nearly as much, relatively, as we· were committed to the great paper mill at Corner Brook, when we were on a note for $10 million in 1923. That was a much larger sum of money having regard to the then

March 3, 1970 Tape 166 Page 4 GC ' condition of Newfoundland 'and the amount of revenue, the earnings of the people, the population of the Province and everything else - much larger amount than the total in which w2 will be committed in Come-by-Chance and Stephenville. But, nevertheless, in these three great projects, we will be co=itted for a very large sum of money and the Government has been giving thought for some considerable past to the best ~.;ay we can go about exercising careful control over the spending of that ~ney.

The best way we can go about making sure that the mills and refinery are built according to plan - according to the best engineering plans, the best d~sign, that the best material goes in them that they will be first-class jobs. And we ha•;e not, yet, determined precisely what kind of organization we will set up.

Will it be a de11artment of the Government? lHll the Department of Economic Development joining with the Department of Public Works, joining with the Department of Finance, jo:!.ning with the Treasury Board, have a joint arrangement hiring staff .- special staff of special qualification for the purpose, or will ~e set up a Crown Agency - a Crown Corporation that would engage adequate and competent staff to do the same thin!!:, or would we engage - 7 .?7 t""P.7-,

MR. SHALWOOD: Would 1-•e en~age the services of some reputable engineering firm in England or in the United States to come and do it, as between these and other possibilities IVe have not yet made a decision. But we kno1.1 that we have to make that decision, we know that •Je have to be most careful in controlling ti1e spending of these huge sums of money for these great industrial projects. I want the House to be well mMre :1r.

Speaker, that we are well at,rare that we are very conscious of the immensity of the money involved," <md the greatness of the responsibility that rests on our shoulders as the people's Government, handling the peo::;Jlc's nancy. l>ow :·rr. Speaker, I I·.• ant to make anot;,er announcer.tent. In the Speech from the Throne there is an i;:~teresting stater.tent about La~rador, as follows:- Very import:mt expansion of t!lC iron ore producins industry in Hestern Labrador is anons the attractive pc:>ssibilities of our Province's i~ediate industrial future.

There could be an extension of an icon ore develop~:~ent at Labrador City amounting to as much as 10 million tons of additional production of iron ore a year, giving employnent to an additional 700 workers and involvin~ an additional capital inve8tment of something between $100 million and $200 million dollars. similar development could possibly take place at a point not ~:~any miles removed from Labrador City, and this though not quite so large as the one that is possible ::?.t Labrador City, 1muld involve the employment of many hundreds of other men - the production 'Jf many millions tons of iron ore and the involvement of a very large sum of fresn c;~pital." And in my speech here l<:~st ;.;eek, I declared that the other iron ore development possible, that ""as nentioned in the Speech from the Throne "~.~as not Wabush. lion. members then inferred from that statement of mine that it must be Julien Lake and I did not contradict that - but now Sir, I have a new annotmcement to make - an announcement of a great expansion of the iron ore developme11t at City of Wabush which is quite near the Labrador City removed I think by a distance of some three miles or something of that order.

Nat only are we going to get a vast expansion in the iron ore development of Labrador City, involving an increase production of 10 million tons a year, but at City of Wabush another expansion from rthe present 6 million tons a ye~r, to 9 and probably 10 million tons a year. If these happen it means that at three points theTe will be a great iron ore Jevelopmcnt and expansion. First,at Labrador City runninG to 10 million ·tans a year. Second, at I . h'

.. City of l,rabush running to J million tons a year, and third, at Julien Lake running to 7 million tons a year. :row that is a total of 20 million tons a year. 10 at Labrador City, J at City of :,rabush and 7 at Julien Lake. The increase MR. WELLS~ It is nothin~; more than a possibility at this stage ~ffi. SHALLWOOD: I say here today, what I am not able to say here today about Labrador City, I say here today about City of Wabush - J million certain, 4 million probable - probably going to happen.

But J million certain, whatever happens there are going to be 3 million tons more involving 300 more jobs at City of Wabush. i~ow Hr. Speak<!r, I should like to rr.ake another announcement. On the west coast of Ne1~foundlanc! the great A::terican Compaily !:now as Flintkote are _presently quarrying and shipping 500,000 tons a year of gypsum rock. They are now stepping that up to 1,000,000 tons a year, and they are presently through Lundrigans,contractors,installing the equipu:ent and paraphernalia needed to enable them to step the production up by 100 percent. I wish to make another announcement ~·1r.

Speaker, HON, E.:·I.ROlll~RTS (~lini5ter of il-eal til): Is this the one for which the bon, gentleman has been ''"'-l Ling all uigl1i. 7 HR. SHALLh"OOD: Tile announcement of the election will come later. I will keep the hon, gentleman on te~r-hooks as long as I can, Another announcement Hr.

Spea~er, onw wet>k from now Overland Suveys Limited of Calgary - Overland Surveys Limited of Calgary, Alberta, will finish their gravimetric - gravit:".etric (and if anyone ~o.·a.-,ts to know how that is spelled I would not mind telling thcl'l, it is g-r-a-v-i - gravimetric, one \.iord . survey) Overland Surveys Liwitcd, of Calr,ary, ~:ill finish their gravimetric survey of 600 square miles of land to the north and to the south of Parsons Pond.

The results of t:1e gravimetric survey suggest powerfully the drilling of~six holes thls summer on that area, and this has been programmed, and they will average 6,500 feet depth - each hole. This is drilling for oil, and the ;;ravimctric survey of course is for . oil. Two years aeo, one hole was drilled there to 4,300 feet depth.

I was there and had a look at it - s,..., it operating, it went through fourteen oil bearing strata, but it ..,ent dmm only 4,300 feet and alt;10ugh 4,300 feet is the deepest hole ever drilled on t~is island - it was not deep enough and the six new holes will go dow"n more than 2,000 feet deeper into the earth, go down an averar,e of 6,500 feet. 757 t

• March 3, 1970, Tape 167, Page 3 -- ~pb I want to give the House another piece of informatfon Mr. Speaker, the present manpower at Lnurchill Falls. I get this report regularly upon my desk once a week I think, or once a fortnight by the Churchill Falls Labrador Power Corporation, and the latest figure I have which is for the 24th. of February shows the following:- Hanual employees, Netlfoundlanders 1,567, Quebecers 609, Newfoundlanders therefore made up 71.9 call it 72 percent of all the manual e~ployees of the Churchill Falls project.

Non-manual employees, that is top adminis trativc people - SL1pervising and engineering personnel, project managers and contractors, the total Newfoundland force is 271, tle\~foundlanders 271 - non-manual or 29 percent of the IJhole,of the non-manual ,,•hole. Adding them all up manual and non-rnanual the total field force - Ne<.rfoundlanders 59 percent.

Since the 15th. of January past 637 people have been hired ln :SeHfoundland, an additional 122 - besides that 122 jobs had to be given to persons outside this Province because they could not find people in Newfoundland that they say l<ere qualified to fill those jobs. 637 employed, another 122 they tried to employ and could not get them because they said they could not find the men qualified to fill those particular jobs. Hr. Speaker, in the Speech from the Throne refererence is made to oil.

And the announcement was made by His Honour that the Government were employing a distinguished la1.]'er in Canada to advise the Government - this Government of this Gcvernments case, the validity, tile strength or otherwise of this Government's case to have title to,control over,offshore mineral and oil rights off the shore of our Province.

The Speech from the Throne said this " ~-ly !·linisters not<nthstandin8 the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada, in the case of the Province of British Columbia, continue to believe in the soundness of our Province's claim to mineral rights lying off the shores of our Province. ·They have therefore engaged the services of a distinguished Canadian constitutional and legal authority to advise them on this matter which admittedly,is one.of the greatest ir.~portance to ~e1~foundland both now and in the future." :Ir.

Speal~er, concessions have been gran ted to various companies to have the exclusive right to search for oil or natural gas over various acreages lying off the coast of this island, and also v~rious acreages lying off the coast of Labrador. This Government gave some leases - t:1e Can~dian Government

~~rch 3, 1970, Tape 167, Page 4 - - apb gave some leases 1 o;ome of tie lessees have leases from both Governments, other lessees have them only from the Newfoundland Government, and still others have them only from the Can.:~diilll C::overnment . I t~ouls like for a mo:nent to address myself merely to t he situation as we find it today of the coast of Labrador alone - off the coast of Labrador concessions have been given to various companies to search for oil or gas 42 million acres of submarine land - land under the ocean; cr 66,000 sq~;arc miles .

That of cours e is a hu&e area when one remembers that the island ·Of Newfoundland is 42 , 000 square miles itself. - 66 , 000 square r.1iles lie off the coast of Labrador , or 42 million acres . Tne ~ain concessions are to Tenneco of Texas, 32 million acres . And Triad - B. P., B.P . of course is British Petroleut:J and British petroleum is 49 perc·ent o~reed by the Royal Javy . It ha!'; more ..•••.•.•

}~rch 3rd. 1970 Tape {i 168 l'K - 1 has more reserves of oil than any other country in the world. British Petroleum B.P.R~ are the ~treat British Company who have entered into the contract with Shaheen for the supply of crude oil for the refinery at Come-by-Chance. And Tirard and B.P. have joined in a joint effort, and they have eight million acres lying of the coast of Labrador. Shannondoah, an American Company and other companies between them have other tHo million acres, plus ~'e have the total of forty-tvm million acres. trr.

Spe«ker, seis:r:o)::ra!Jh has been done out of the coast off Labrador and the \oork has ~~::;.ven very promising indications, very pronising indeed, of the presence of oil off the Coast of Labrcdor. Let me take the case of Penico. Penico have abreed to pay to the Canadian Govern ment, and if ~' e can establish that property is ours, then that money will be paid to us. Tiut, at the r.10r.1ent under the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the llritish Columbia case, the Canadian Govern..'llent. are collecting it. In the first three years of the concession, ~!r.

Speaker, Penico are pay in~ to the Canadian Government five cents an acre on thirty-two million acres. And then the second three years, they are payinR fifteen cents an acres, on thirty-two million acres. And they have been given a t1~elve year lease, and in the last three years, the tenth, the eleventh, and twelveth years, they are to pay fifty cents an acre to the Canadian GovernmEnt so that if they hold the entire concession for the twelve year period, they will pay to the Canadian C~vernment $80 million.

Now that ~auld be over and above any money Penico spent on drillinr, or any another other ~eo~olop,ica~ work. They proposed to put a ship off the Coast of L:~hrador next year, they \Jill not be ready to do it this year, and that ship will cost them $50,000 a day to operate, $350,000 a week, $1.5 million a mcmth to operate. And that would be over and above the amount they \·muld pay tllr.e Canadian C.overnment. I ought to say this • that the $80 million they \Jill pay to the C-l!'.nadian Government, will be credited to them to go ar.ainst taxes, they "Will be CXJ'e·o:ted to pay to the Canadian Government.

They will be credited with these payments. I cite these facts, ~lr. Speaker~ to illustrate to this llouse, and I hope through the House to the public, one of the : >f:reat possibilities, and I fJUt it no hip,her, one of the great possibilities for !E,nture '~ealth for this Province. I say possibility, because in the first place, ~re _ lla-ave to establish \·?hether .._.e ovm thE>se mineral and oil deposits. But, first ve ha"'tle to establish whether they are there, and that will not cost us anythin~, becaus~ , ~f course, the mininr. companies, the oil 7~~

Y.arch 3rd. 1970 Tape G 168 PK - 2 companies will determine that. Second, if the oil and natural gas are there then we have to establish that ~·e m.'l'l the property, Then thirdly, if we do own it, we will collect immense sums of revenue from it. There has been a supgestion, Mr. Speaker, from people connected with Penico, that the oil they would find, they would bring ashore to dry land through a pipeline, that they would lay on the ocean floor. And that the pipeline \could carry across Labrador to soMe place, s2y on tht> north shore of the Gulf of St. Lavrence.

There is that SU!!~estion of a (!teat pipeline tJhich tJould cost many, many hundreds of millions of dollars to build. But, although, no one seems to mind facing the rrospect of spenning vast sums of money where oil is concerned, because oil is evidently an enormously profitable commodit y . Now, Sir, in the last three years, absolutely astonishinp. progress has been made in finding ways and means of dealing with ice . Three years a(!o, vas it not, or four years ap:o, Nr.

J'ickersgill was instru::~ental at my request, instru mental in sending an icebreaker in through the Hamilton Inlet and into Lake Helville, in the h-'ight of the season to see, if an icebreaker could p.et in through that area, '1.-ith-the enoromousl}' heavy ice there is there normally. She did not have to much trouble. But, Sir, since she tvent in there /'reat progress has been made in finding better •rays to deal with ice. Th~r~ was a time in our htstory, before the First 1-lorld War, when Newfounciland was the o~o.'Iler of the world's bip.gest fleet of icebreaking steel ships.

The Belleventure, the Bonaventure, the Advi?Ptu!:e, who remembers other names? The Bellevent:ure, the Bonaventure, the Adventure ·, that was three - Here there others? And then there 1-1ere others as t,•ell. But the Ventures numbered three, I think Harvey's o~o."tled them. '!:'hey sold them to Russia during the First World War to do icehreaking duty in the north coast of Russia near Archangel and other grea~ Russian seaports.

And, Sir, until recently the only way they could think of for an ice breaker to operate was to p:o ahead and vith a rounded bo\lt.h ji.O upon to the ice, and by the sheer weight of the ship hreak the ice do~o.~. Break it do~o.~, it would back up again, and go up again on the ice and break dm.-n more, and then back· ·up and ~o ahead a~ain, and break do~ more ice, and break it do~o.-n continually breaking the ice down by the sheer weight of the ship. And roundinp. the boW· · to enable the shi!' to p.o upon to the ice. They nm• have turned that exactly around. They have reveresed that idea.

And they now ~o do~ under the ice, and lift the ice up like

r>arcn _,ra. J..~/U 'rape 11 16!:: PK- 3 a plough. They lift the ice up, they break it, they plouF;h in the hovJ , of the ship goes out under the ice and lift it up - ~<'hat is the name of tl,e bl'~h: Axle &w!t. Now, Sir, this is a revolutionary new development. And I think, it is a fair statement of truth to say, thilt today to !!O into Lake Nelville through the Hamiltion Inlet, which is the great entrance, and into Lake }!elville which widens out inside, to go in there at will thorough the winter, would present no great task for a tr.odern icebreaker to perform. l·:e must also, remember this, Er.

Speaker, Canada in recent weeks through he.r Parliament, throu!"h the lips of her foreign minister, Hr. Sharpe, and of her Prime Hinister, Er. Trudeau, t:anada has been laying dmm her claim to the Northwe,;t Passage. \-.'e know that the Hanhatten ~;as able to go dmm on that historic voyaf!e and back only because Canada "·as able to have her accompanied by a great Canadian icebreaker. And, Sir, the thing that is cl,oing more than anything else to establish Canada's claim to the Northl-.'est Passage will be Canada's ability to develop icebreaking techiques for ships.

And I think, 1~e may assume that getting in and out of Lake ~lelville, is not gojng to be an insuperable task. This :!.s something that can be done, if it cannot be done easily at the moment, it will be done easily presently, in a year, in t1>o years. If 1 so l.'hat would then prevent the oil from being brought into land and refined right there in Labrador, in Lake :~elville, in Sandwich Fay, in Alexis Bay, or 1o:hatever is the nearest appropriate harbour or bay. \oihat then ;.muld stop that? One:thing only, iceber~s. Do you know, Mr.

Speaker, as of this moment they have not found out anyway whereby a ship ~oing along in the dark or in fog is able to detect the presence of an iceherg up ahead, soon enoufh to allow the ship to s~o•erv~ .e.~o1ay and do~t,e s~ashing into the iceberg? hith all the electronic devices and ~adgets and discoveries and inventions made up to the present time, they have not yet. found aw~y to enable a ship to detect the presence of an iceherg soon enough to enable the ship to escape a srr.ashing into the berg.

I am proud and happy to say here today, that the engineering college of Memorial University under the brilliant Dean, Dr. Bruno, are now devoting their brains, large part and time of their brains, to that problem. It is peculiarly a Newfoundland p=oblem. ~e know more about icebergs, in Newfoundland, than they do in any other part of this ;;orth American Continent. ~·:e have had more experience with icebergs, than anyone else has had. In fact, they have had only triffling experience compared with the experience we have had. He learned it the hard way. 1.-e learned it

March 3rd. 1970 Tape 168 PK- 4 the hard way. ~~en the Englishmen came out here, in the early days of our history, they were green sofar as icebergs were concerned. They knew nothing about icebergs, they knew nothing about the habits of icebergs. They knew nothing about the dangers of icebergs. They did not know anything about icebergs. How could they? What chance had they ever had to learn anything about icebergs?

But, they learned it here, Sir.( And hundreds and tens of hundreds of lives were snuffed out here on .our coast by men Iearninp, about icebergs.: God knm•s hotv many ship!! went to the bottom, and how many lives were snuffed out in the hundreds of years it took for our people to acquire the lure, the lure the culture of icebergs. So we have grown up for nearly five hundred years on this Island, shipmates with icehergs.

And it is very,appropriate, I feel, that our own college of engineering should be the one college of engineering in the world now, except possibly in the Soviet lnion, and I would imagine they would have "l;ery AOOd reason to study the subject over there as well. Now giving great study and attention, to the question of detecting icebergs. And one can only hope that this will happen • . tt

~m.~nNson: I think at this point I should give an explanntion with my experience of icebergs. I think the Hon, the Premier mirht be a little confused between "icebergs" and "grot<lers." TI1ere is no difficulty Sir, in detecting icebergs. The radar is capable 6£ doing that and we have used it for many years. It is the growler I think you might be a aittle confused in. NR.Sl'!ALLHOOD: Yes. I do hope that the hon. ~entleman the Hinister of Labrador Affairs who knows the coast of Labrador better than any one else in this Chamber.

I hope he will favour us with some rer:~arks on the address in Reply, and give us some sound practical information about it. Sir, I have mentioned oil, possibility of oil and natural gas off the cosst of Labrador but of course the prospects off the Island of Ne\·Ifoundland are at least , to say the least just as good, if not better, and once "'e can get settled the question of our title, then ::ewfoundland' s economic future should be vastly improved, vastly improved indeed by the presence of that great ,,•ealth lying just off our share. Mr.

Speaker, last night or yesterday afternoon I referred to the loss of population in the nearby province of Nova Scotia. Today I am able to give the actual figures. In 1968 ~r. Speaker, 41,000 Nova Scotians left their province. In 1967 39,730 noH we have not r;ot the figure for 1969, but if it was about the ... same as 67 and 68 then in 1969 another 40 odd thousand would have left Nova Scotia making a total for three years of 120,000 persons. So, Mr. Speaker, t~hen I say as l say ad nauseam.

It must turn people's stomach to get so fed up hearing me say it. lfucn I say that ?~e,~foundland could be washed down the drain and we will be if W! do not watch oursebzes. I am onl :• speaking the simple truth, The pressure that is on Newfounctland and Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island and New Hrunswick. The pressure of population, the pressure of our people looking for jobs, is irresistible. The race between population and jobs, the population going up the jobs not keeping pace. The pressure of population lookin3 for uork looking for jobs could easily, all too easily start of stampede out of this Province.

That is what I mean by t~ashing Newfoundland do~~ the drain. HR.COLLI~S~ Those figures that you just quoted from Nova Scotia, It seems to me .. that establishing how many people might leave Nova Scotia, would present quite a problem because they can leave' :~ova Scotia with greater ease than r.;~s.:: can leave Newfoundland. We were told here last year that the last session that it t~as very difficult to deter.:tine how rn;1n:1 people 11ere leaving :~ewfoundland, The lion. 74-C ~·

Hinister of Health he said at that til!le that an effort wa5 to be made to try and determine how many people were le<tving via Port aux Basques, ho>,• many >-Tere leaving via airlines from St. John's and Gander. I \<onder has any <·mrk been done anc!this can the Pre~:~ier indicate how many peot>le mi;3ht be leavinr. Ne;:foundland yearly. HRSSHi\LLWOOD: Yes, ~!r. Speaker I have already done it. I have already told in this House, given the figures of the numbers that \.:ere leaving Ne,·!foundland I have done that.

In the budr,et speech, the la5t buclr;ct speech the l!ouse was told of the numbers of persons h'ilo in the pn~vious 15 :·cars had lert i\ewfoundland, and the number each year for the l.:tst 15 year:;.it is spelled out clearly in the budget speech. I had, not an estil'1ate, it \:as not exnctly it H,,s A precise figure. There \•as a tremendous amount of For!' done .1ncl the same kind of <...ark is done in eAch individual province. The first cluty of the Governnent of a I'rovince is to know hoH many people there are, hN: many arc com in;; in :10;: many <1rc goinr, out, how the population is ;;rowin~ or cleclin in~.

Eo-.: c.:tn you plan ahc<1d for schools? !I01: can you plan ahead for anyt!lin~ if :'ou do not l:nmc hov r.1any peo!'le you have am! tvhat their ages are? The ar,e 1;rou1>inr, of your peonle, hm! 1nany young people, hotJ many childrer, co"'in!C that ~:ill be ncedi.nr school ncco:n"'oda.tion five years, eight years, ten years, fifteen )'e<lrs fran nou, hm• can you plan ar.ythinp; if you do not knoH first of all the nur.,bcr.~: of your ro!mlation? I have not got the figures here vith me at the monent nncl I a.m not sure that the fir,urcs have heen compiled for last year yet.

It may be another r10nth or t'Wo before any one has the figure conpiled. nut we have the fir,ure5 for each year before last ye:1r running back for sol'le fifteen years. The han. r.entleman will get the budget and he will find it right there, spelled out in the budget, in the budgLt speech. ~ .• COLLI:·lS: That ~.;as not one of the sixteen \Jords. HR.SY.ALLI~OOD: That '·'as cot one of the sixteen viOrds, no, that t.:as among the other words. So we could be 't."ashed dmm the drain it is a very sad and shocking and a frightening thine :!r. Speaker. It is frish ten i.ng.

It is utterly frightening to think of the pressure there is down here to drive people out of the four Atlantic Provinces and it is even more fri~hteninr, to think of this magnetic attraction the!e is in Upper Canada in Ontario vho attract people up there from dotm here.

Down here the sheet: Hait of economic conditions, the sheer wait of unemployment the sheer wait ~f lack of johs, the sheer wait of lack of opportunity do"n here drivinr-,tending to drive them out and up in Ontario with no unemployment with things booming, with inflation, rir,ht l!.•rt and centre attracting them up there If you stop to think enou:;h about it you will end up in uttcz: despair. Certainly You \vill not have any trouhle understandinR the danger in ":hich this Province and •7117

other eastern seaboard provinces stand in that matter. Hr. Speaker, I want to pass on, I want to make one brief observation about the Auditor General's Report.

It ~Tas tabled here in the House the other day and I read it as I sat here listening to !:he hon. gentleman speaking, I read it through and it seemed to be one of th~ildest reports, Annual P.cports of·a~ Auditor General that I have seen for a good many.ycars extremely mild, very very mild, And as the former minister of Finance whose accounts were dealt with in the Auditor General's Report because the whole period covered in the report was his period as Minister of Finance. yesterday in his speech yesterday.

He very ri.r,htly said from his place here The hon. member for Fortune Bay ~:ho was the Minister of Finance , being criticized here and there little bits not too much by the Auditor General. He very rir,htly said th;,.t it was grossly exaggerated. The conment in the papers and so on. That any knowledgeable person, and }!r. Speaker remember that you are always always the victim of ignorance. All of us were the victims of ignorance. That is !gnorance, I do not mean ignorance in the colloquial sense of the word that you are an ignoramus.

If I calt a:·.111an an ignoramus, I mean he is ignorant, and by calling him ignorant I mean he lacks informacion. He is ignorant of certain facts. Igno,!'l!nt has c.ome to have another r.1eaning ~;hich is a sort of a tem of abuse, ,you ignoramus, meaning you dirty low clot-m or something like that. Ilut the word ignoramu~ means lacking information. Ignorant of certain information. Public men are always the victi~s of ignorance of that kind. Someone ·.iho has never read for instance an auditor general's report in his life and he reads · _ this one. His hair stands up. He is frightened to death his blood runs cold.

But let anybody take annual reports of auditor's general running back for twenty- five years, fifty years, Take the report of the Auditor General in ~lova Scotia in any province of Canada., Take the Auditor General's Report to the Parliament of Canada, to the C~nadian Parliament, jutt read the Auditor General's Report and having done that anyone reading this report uould be a little surprised at. its mildness. And Mr.

Speaker, I will have other opportunities in this present session to talk about the Auditor General's Rnport and more important the ~!inisl!er of Finance will have ample opportunity to d1.scuss it and the House will have ' lots of opportunity., anyone who wishes to join in it vill have ample opportunity to discuss anything that is in the report of the Auditor General. llut I want to say just one thing. This Government has an accountinr. system, a bunch of book-

keepers. chartered accountants, certified public accountants, we have twenty- five of ther.t dovn there in the Department of Finance. :lasters of Commerce, Bachelors of Commerce, }:asters of Business Acbinistration "ith their degrees we have tHenty-five or t'!venty six men in the Department of Finance today with their various degrees in accounting, accountancy and business administration, some 25 against 3. l!e had three there, three or four years .:1.~oJ ~;e have about 25 now. thoroughly qualified accountants, and busine s s executives, and financial executives.

Twenty-five of them 1dth their degrees compared T<ith three of themJ three or four years ago. Tuenty-five it is an enornous increase in the staff of highly qualified men. And in the course of a year Sir. they enter up in the accounts half a million separate i:1dividual entries. Just think of that, half a nillion separate trans;,.ctions: entered into the accounts, entered in the account bo•)k:.;. Five hundred thousand entries a year involving three quarters of a billion dollars, mon~y in money out.

Seven hundred million dollars a year, you take in thre~ hundred and fifty million every bit of that is entered into the accounts. You pajl ont the same rr.oney three hundred and fifty million every bit of it is entered i~the accounts, half a million entries three quarters of a billion dollars. No\.' ~lr.

Speaker, give me a minister of Finance who is perfect and give me a deputy-ninister and controller ~:ho is perfect and give me an associate d.epuc.J-mini:.;L~t u[ .L.i..lku1Ct:: who is ~c.:-fc..ct u.7'.G give me twenty-five chartered accountants and masters of business and bachelors of b~sines~and commerce all of them perfect and then r,ive me fifteen or t~enty other clerks and machine operators who operate accounting Pachines. All perfect. Give me a perfect department of finance and you t<culd not need an auditor general His report then '!..'Ould consist of or could consist of one sente::1ce.

"I have audited everything and I find everythin .t; perfect :• That is what his report would be. But instead of that Sir, the Auditor General with a staff never. big enough I never heard o~ read in my life of any auditor r.eneral on the earth never one, never in my life never heard or read of any auditor general who is satisfied with the size of his staff. Never, they always want more staff. nut give them d reasonably adequate staff and they will spend a year going over these hal ·P million accounts, checking them, checking them, checking them.

A miracle of miracles they dtscover six, eight, ten, twenty errors out of the half million. And these are the things that are rep(')1·ted in the auditor ~eneral' s report. The poor naive ignoramus with his hair standing strair.ht up and only half reading the criticism only half reading i!;, and not. bein~ able to coMpare it Yith anythinp, else, thinks that he has hit upon a r,reat scandal. Thus is the reputation of public men made and unmade. 7/7' 7 .-.-

March 3 1970. Tape 169 page 5. As I say we t~ill have lots of opportunity in this session to go much more thoroughly into the annual report of the Auditor G'!neral and to discuss any particular aspect that needs to be discussed • Certainly there will be lots of opportunity. Mr. Speaker,

March 3, 1970 Tape 170 Page 1 GC Mr. Speaker, one of the greatest friends I ever had in my life, was Sir William Coaker. The first book I ever wrote was a small book on the life of Sir William Coaker. I was living in London and I wrote this book in three days and three nights -first book, "Coaker of Newfoundland". It was published by a publishing firm in London and it was illustrated with a picture of Sir William Coaker and the picture was drawn with pen and ink by the greatest artist of his kind in England at that time- J.F. Horadin. J·.F. Horadin illustrated H.G.

Well's "Outline of History" and he illustrated J.F. Horadin's "Mathematics for the Millions"'. J.F. Horadin -he drew this illustration for my book; a picture of Sir h'illiam Coaker which is frontispiece on the cover of the dust jad::.2t, "Coaker of !'lewfoundland''. I worshipped that man. My admiration for him was boundless. There were no bounds to it. My respect for him, my admiration for him and my regard for Ccaker were 'vi thout lini t. I regarded him and I now regard as one of the greatesc sons of this I~land that we have ever produced in 500 years. He was the first great leader of the fishermen.

He was an elemental force in Newfoundland - a very great public figure -Sir William Coaker. And now, I pay that tribute to him as I touah on my next ~opic in these remarks today. I remember so well, so well I remember it because, Mr. Speaker, I was a bit precocious. I began at a very early age to take enormous interest in public affairs and I remember well the late Sir Drian Dunfield - not then Sir Brian but Mr. Dunfield - being commissioned by Hr. Coaker, as he was then, the Hinister of Marine and-Fisheries under the Premiership of Sir Richard Squires, being called in by Mr.

Coaker to draft a scheme which never came into full fruition until a month or two from now. And that was 1919. What I am going to talk about now, started in 1919. Sir IUlliam Coaker was elected on November 3. The Government were elected - the House of Assembly were elected on November 3, 1919. And before the House of Assembly met under the War Heasures Act under the authority of the War· Measures Act which was still on the Statutes Books, though the war was over, brought in 7..::FI

··' .. . \ March 3, 1970 Tape 170 Page 2 GC the famous fishery regulations, drafted by Mr. Brian Dunfield. And the six largest fish companies on Vater Street, the big six, the super six, backed it and the Government put it in effect. What were they for, Hr. Speaker? r;ow, I will tell you ~.>hat they ~.>ere for. They ~.>ere to deal with two situatio~s. Either one of them desperate. Ons more desperate than the other.

TI1e desperate situation was this: that for generations before then - up to then, 1919 - for long generations, the practice was this; you were a fish merchant, you bought fish from the fishermen, you packed it, you loaded the schooner, she sailed across to Lisbon or ror.tugal or :oporto- r~ or Alicante or Xaples or Piraeus or some seaport along the Hediterranean. Unsold - there was t•Jo or three or four thousand quintals of fish pack~d on in the hold of the sailing vessel that sailed across the Atlantic. She would stop at Gibraltar and get some orders and then go on to the seaport where she ~.Tas supposed to go.

She \;ould land at that seaport with the fish unsold. The fish brokers would have a brokery. You had an exporter, you had a broker. You would ~.>ire your broker. He knew the schooner was coming. The fish ~.>as unsold. His job was to sell it and one broker would compete with another broker. One shipper from Newfoundland would compete with all other shippers from Newfoundland and the fish "'ent over there unsold. On consignment - :!.t was consigned, sent over on spec - hoping they would sell it, hoping a broker would find someone to buy it. The fish was a semi-perishable

article in a hot climate. It got in Oporto or Alicante or :1-'..llaga or Naples or sor:~e other hot seaport - a semi perishable

article unsold in the hold of a schooner, in the hands of a broker, who did not have a nickel in it. and who would make his money fast if he could sell it fast and would sell it fast if he could sell it cheap. And every broker in the same position all competing 1o1ith each o·ther and all competing to get rid. to get rid, not to sell, but to get rid of these schooner lo~ds of Newfoundland salt cod. That was savage, Mr. Speaker. It was commonplace - the tobacco trades of the United States. all the tobacco growers were in the same position, the fruit gro~.Ters, the citrus fruit growers of California, all the primary · producers of North America were in the same position. Cutthroat competition.

Harch':3, 1970 Tape 170 Page 3 Ge Selling on consignment. No such thing as merchandise. But the greatest victitJs of all, were our Newfoundland fishermen.

And Coaker said -he began saying about 1912 and '13 and '14 and '15 and '16 and 1917 and 1918 and it was not until 1919 that he was able to get some action by bringing in the fishery regulations, which said this: no one ships a:cod's tail out of Newfoundland, no one but no one until first he gets a license from the Minister of Fisheries and he will give a license only if the fish is sold, grade after grade after grade for a certain price after price after price. Prices in accordance with the different grades.

The Portuguese market, the Spanish market, the Italian ma~ket, the Greek market and the r.tarket of the - Malta - Halta toc-cods. All that - well, it.was mainly over there, on this side of the Atlantic the Brazil market disappeared anyway. They did not have any dollars. Disappeared right off the face of the earth. The price had to be set. The dates of sailing had to be set. It was an attempt, the first one in history, co regulaL.e the sails, t.!1.c d.atcs ~f shipping, the amounts of ship?ing, the prices to be asked - all set by these fishery regulations.

The first tirr:e in history that salt codfish was attempted to be sold in a regular fashion - co-operative marke!:ing in the control of the Government. Mr. Speaker, there are not many left around today who will remembe~ the savage battle for three years; for three years the Mouse of Assembly rang, it rang - I sat through every hour of it as a !eporter sitting in a press gallery. Every hour of it for three years - the ablest cen we have ever had in Opposition when we really had an Opposition, when we really had able men in Opposition. There was an Opposition.

Sir Michael Cashin, Sir John Crosbie, Colonel Sullivan, W.J. Higgins, H.J; l-lalsh. They - for three years, they battled the fishery regulations and all ~<etJfoundland was in an uproar for three years and they were smashed. They were smashed to smithereens. And they had to be ended, and they were ended. Years and years and years passed before finally, the merchants themselves havinr, had a taste for awhile of controlled shipments, formed themselves into a Newfoundland salt codfish association.

March 3, 1970 Tape 170 Page 4 GC And then, that did not ~rork too well, but it worked a little bit and then years after that again, they brought in NAFEL: - Newfoundland Associated Fish Exporters Limited - a co-operative of fish merchants. I think you had to pay $10,000.00 to join it. Well, that ruled out most fishermen. I would say the great majority of the fishermen wera squeezed out. A very successful way of squeezing out the co~on jack in the fishing industry - the people who owned the industry. The merchants do not mm the fish industry. They never did. They never will.

The fish industry belon~s to the fishermen and the merchants, at best, are only servants of the fishermen. Now, they do not look upon themselves as servants. They never did. They have always looked upon the~selves as masters and the fishetmen were the servants, but the truth is that the masters, the true rnaste~s Of the fishery are fishermen. They always were. There could be no fishery without them. All the money on earth, all the gold in the vaults of the Bank of England orFort l>orth would not haul a cod out of the ocean. That has to be done by men - human men.

Anu the merchants iorr.1ed their oW'n co-op calleci l'lAfiL. "ihanks be to God they· did! I vas angry with til em more than once before I became Premier, after I became Premier, again and again I was ang!)· with them. I ~ras sore with them but what I was sore with, was that it was ju5t a merchants'~co-op. And I wanted it to be a fishe~an's co-op or at any rate, a cc-op of merchants and fishermen, each playing his proper

part in the co-op. But, at any rate, it was a great advance over what had ever beea before. So, Mr. Speaker, I have not gone through that as a journalist, as an observer, every inch of it, every hour of it - having gone through it myself, I was well able in 1962, to call a great conference in this building on September 24, 1964.

The conference was a conference of fishermen and fish buyers and fish packers and fish exporters, and fish marketers in the markets and officials, ministers and officials from this Government, from the Nova Scotia Government, from the New Brunswick Government, from the Prince Edward Island Government, from the Quebec Government, and from the Government of Canada. We had them all here. We had them here from Jamaica, from Portugal, from Spain, from England. We had them here.

March 3, 1970 Tape 170 Page 5 ce t,'e had a conference that lasted for t hree c.lays dO,.":!S tairs in the Sir Robert Bond Auditoriu;n . Here is the \'erbatim record of every vord spoken in that confere :'lce . Here it is . Ever; IJC.rd that ,.-as spoke., for the t h r ee days is there. Verbatitl . Hord for word . It is there. It starts off with the Chairman, the l ate hon . John !. Cheeseman , who 'liaS t hen our H.inister of Fisheries, opening the conference and introducing me and I am making the opening speech - the keynote speech .

And in my mind as I made that speech and as I looked over that gr eat a udience, in my :lind, very nuch, was the r.:c:1or)' of Sir l<'illlam Coaker, Aft e r I had s uggested in r.:y speech, t !la: the conference should wind up in the third day by nor.lina~lr.g people that the Covernr:1ent \:ould be happy to appoint, they would nominate an~ the Govern~ent would appoint ~eople to serve on a special fi shery co~ission , after doing that, ! discussed the Und of work ti:at the Cover:t:;:en:: would va:'lt that <"ommission to do .

March 3, 1970 Tape #171 Page 1 MR. S~~LLWOOD: is here, right here. And the ~ords I used were these, these are the exact words: but what I would like is for that Commission to buckle down, really buckle do•Jn hard to it, and under all these headings put together, the latest and the best and what seems to be the soundest kind of a program for Fishery Development. Now vhere? Fisher ·v Development, where? Nevfoundland? Yes. of course Newfoundland is a big fishing province, one in five of our people directly getting their living out of it. But not only Newfoundland.

If this Commission could come up with · a report and a series of recommendations sound enough and sensible enough to be applied anywhere in Canada, and everywhere in Canada - wherever the shoe fitted. Then what the Commission would be producing would be a charter of Fishery progress for Newfoundland.

Now of course it m{ght not be a report, and the recommendations might not be such that they could just fit every province exactly, in which case naturally there 'l."ould have to be changes here, and changes there, for this province or that province or the: other province- because frankly what I have in the back of my mind is this, and it is out no1• in the front of my mind. We should go, I said, to the Parljament of c~nrl~?. ~pvfo~~~la~d sho~l~ go - the fishing industry - I would like to see other provinces hold similar conferences and go with a great program of Fisheries Develo~ment.

Because, mark my words, you cannot have Fisheries D2veloprr.ent without its costing a lot of money. It cannot be done. You cannot have agricultural development, you cannot have railroad development. You cannot have any big development lvithout its costinj!: a lot of money. Hany millions of dollars - many millions. Now the Newfoundland go Government will, I do not need to say it, ~ on as we have gone on - pouring a lot of money into the Fisheries. But we have not got enough to pour in.

Then Sir, after developing that thought that the Fisheries oroblems vary from one province to another, I went on to sa~ finally and here I quote mys.,.lf; "it would be foolish, it would be silly to exoect the Parliament or the Government of Canada to pick out certain provinces and favour them, make little favourites of them - they are not ~oinP. to do that. If vou have a great Fisheries Development program, it ha~ to be a orogram that can be anplied in this or that or the other province, accor<iing as it may fit.,. Nnw that was keynot:e. In other words Mr.

Sreaker. where IJe had been 111aking the stupid mistake ?.:i 6

March 3, 1970 Tape #171 Pa11:e 2 and it was stupid, of thinking we could go to the Parliall'ent of Canada, and get Canada to do something for the fisheries of ;";e1~foundland, just Newfoundland, only Newfoundland - something snecial for Newfouncl~nd - not for Nova Scotia, not for New Brunswick, not for P.E.I. not for Quebec, but 1ust for Newfoundland, -;·' where we had been stuoidly assuming that we could~Ottawa to do that - now for the first time, I came'forward in 19~4 at the great Fisheries Conference d~mstairs with the idea that the sensible thing for us to do, was to go to Ottawa, and ask Ottawa to bring in a program for the whole fishing industry of the whole nation.

Then they would not be playing favourites - then thev wou"!.d not be making chalk of one and cheese of the other. Sir, on the last day of the Conference they did sug~est the names of some t'~enty or thirty prol'linent men, merchants, fishermen, deep-sea fishermen, in-shore fishermen, Labrador fishermen, representatives of the Fishermen's Federation, officers of the Federation. And we appointed them - the Government appointed them. That Commission sat. I think I can tell you who they were. The Commission we appointed had an executive, and then thev had the rest of the tr.emhers. P. J. Antle , Captain ~ax Burry.

Capt?.in Guv Earle, Robert Haines from the S.U.F. - F.A.J. Lawes, mana~ing director of NAFEL, Arthur H. l-~onroe, Frank Moores, the present Tory M.P. in Ottawa, E. A. Snow, managing director of Bay Roberts Fisheries. One, t~o. three, four, five, six. seven, ~ight of an executive. The rest of the me~hers were - D. R. Abbott, then the President of the Fishermen's Federation, l.filfred Buffett from Grand Bank, Rueben Cassila, fisherman from Pouch Cove, Mercer Davis, fisherman from Cartwright, Richard Glenn, fisherman from West St. Modeste, Harold Goodridge, Tors Cove Trading, James C.

Grieve, director of RowrinRs, Harold Johnson, a fisherman from Little Catalina, Gordon V..i'fflin from Catalina, John Molloy, fisherman from St. Shott's, Glen Newman, a fish plant operator at Ouid{ Vidi, Con O'Brien, Witless Bay - fish plant operator. Mrs. Penney, President of John Penney & Sons, James Pittman, a fisherman from Rocky Harbour, Bonne Bay, Andrew Short, a fisherman from Harbour Grace, Frank Spencer, Booth Fisheries, Fortune: John Sullivan, a fisherman of Calvert, and Henry Taylor, a fisherman of Moreton's Harbour. And the secretary of the Commi.<~ .'lion lias .Colin Storey.

We appointed the Commission and thev went to work, and on October 30, they issued their first renort and this is it. On the 30 of Octoher, hut 7~-?

March 3, 1970 Tape Hl71 Pa~e 3 this vas an interim report, a sort of a first installment. Th~n on January 19, 1962 - The Co~mission met as I said Septe mber 24, 1962, October 30, !962 - the interim report, and the main report January 19, 1963. Report Number 2. And ~lr. Speaker, I in my speeches at the Conference suggested, just copying Sir William Coaker, that is zll I was doin~. Not original with me. I was able to do it, because I had known C~aker so well. I was so familiar with his ideas.

I knew hm• good the ideas "ere, so I was able to suggest that what we had to have was a great marketing hoard, similar to the wheat marketing board of the Western Prairie Province. So it did theCommi>< sion. Then the next great steo "We took ""as this. We brought in, and I did a revolutionarv thing and a darinl! thing, the Prime ~linister of that ti~e was Mr. Diefe~baker. He and I did not get on too "Well together, publicly - no.

There was a rur.:~ur around at the time that he and I did not see eye to eve too well, nevertheless, I did bring two men into Newfoundland at that time, who "Were from the h'es t, and who ';.l'ere Hr. Diefenbaker's speech writers. They were the men who trav~lled around with Mr. Diefenbaker writing his speeches, that ~r. Diefenbaker would deliver. Hedlar.d and ~1enzies - two of the most brilliant minds in Canada.

They have since formed a hi)!: firm and that finH was bought out the other day by Acres ..:as it - Acres had 1ust bought out the Hedland, }!enzies firm. ~Jt I telephoned these two men and I said we have a great task to perform in Newfoundland, and I know you are brilliant the two of ~ou, and I know also that you know more about farmers and £armer's problems in Western Canada, than perhaps any other men in Canada.

Now would you come down ~nd get interested in the problems of the Fisheries, bringing with you here, your knowledge of what the farmers have done, and what the Parliament of Canada and the Government have done to Canada's farmers. Bring that knowledge with you, and apply it here to our fishermen's problems. How do the Government of Canada and how do the Parliament of Canada handle the farmer's problems. How have they handled those problems for ten, twenty, thirty years past?

And knmfing .these techniques and cures and solutions, will you please come down and trv to work out the same kincls, the same types of solution for our fishing province. They came Sir, and here is their report. And this is January 1963 as well, and in this they recommended the same thing, a salt codfish mark~ting board. Coaker must have heen smil~ng beni2nlv do~~ 7 j~r:-

·. March J, 1':170 Tape JH71 Page 4 from heaven as he sa~ his o~ ideas step by sten by steo being carried out by his friend and follower, Joey. The next step Sir, "-'as this. In necember 1963, the S;jm~ year now, the year after our biR Conference, Hedl;md and ~!enzies of Lombard Avenue, Winnipe)';, }lanitoba, presented a second report ~Jhich ~Jas written by them, but written as ''I" like a Budget Speech. This savs ''I " . And the 'T' was Joey. It is written in the first person "I say this, and I sav, and I say the other", and the "I" was meant to be the Premier. But actually it was written by Hedland and Menzies.

I did not even w~ite sixteen words. not even sixteen words of this far.1ous report. So I am not the author of it - I adopted it, and I r.1ade it mine. And I presented it to the Governr.1ent of Canada, again advocating the salt codfish marketing board for th~ fishing industry of this Province. Now you see Hr. Speaker, the doc~~ents are beginning to pile up. And finally, the big reoort of all. I went with this to 'qtta;;a, personally, I went uo to present it rn·;self with my m>'n hands. l,'hen I · p,ot up there, the Government of Mr. Diefenbaker vas falling apart.

They ~<.•ere fallir.r; aoart ac not !:~ •-·~ !''='~" 1nnk like a Government that is falling apart? Do not the Opposition look like they are about to take over? Now look at them, look at them • They are the crovd about to take over Newfoundland, vith this great sweeping ?Opular l!',ovement t~at thcv are leading all around our Province. There they are the crowd - Oh, do not rr.ake me laugh. Mr.

Speaker, the Government were falling apart, and I had ~ meeting in the office of :1r. (the teacher from the Uest) Hamilton - Alvin Hamilton, a man1one minister in the Government of Canada, in the Diefenbaker l.oveYnreent, for whom I had a lot of respect, and I still have. I presented this to him, and to the ~linister of Fisheries, the man from P.E.I. Mr. McLean, and Mr. ~.J. Browne was present. And I went in and I presented the report, this report to them. Now I felt you know. really Hr. Speaker, I felt that I was sort of not casting pearls before swine, because thev uere not svine, and these were not pearls.

But I did feel that it was love's labour lost- the Government were falling apart, and they did shortly fall apart, one minister after the other left them. So while I was in Ottawa, I went and had a long talk with }{r. Pearson

March 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 17.?. Page 1 So~ while I was in Ottawa I wer.t and had a long talk with }!r. Pearson. He was the leader of the Opposition. I had a long talk "'ith Hr. Pickersgill and then the three of us had a talk torether. I sa:! d, ''look, Hr. Pe.:trson, there are not as many fishermen in Canada, as there are \beat gro\<ers. That is a fact." But I said, "so what? Are not fishennen in Canada entitled to treatment the same exactly in prin~iple, in principle as tr.e far~ers are entitled to get. Not a5 much, but in principle.

Are not the fishermen entitled to the same consideration as farmers·?: min~rs or railroaders or any other classification of workers in Canada." He said, "yes, Joe, of course they are." 1 said, "illl right,_ down through the years as Hedland and Menzies describe, every main problem of the farmers has been taken care of. !,'hat are the IT'.ain probler..s of farmers? Shortage of capital, crop failure~ the need to rehabilitate their farms, daiT'.age from hail orfrost. In order words, acts of God or shortaFe of cash and then again marketing.

The problem of rr.arketin!_': their ~'heat and year after year after year for thirty years, the Parliament of Canada under the different governments had brought in laws to take care of that proble~,of the other problem and of this problem, of another problem. One by one by one by one great schemes, great programs were brought in to take cc.re of the probleiT'.S of the farmers." I said, "if it is right, Hr.

Pearson to have fanners helped and protected, when they have a crop~failure• is it not equally right for fishermen to be helped and protected, when they have a catch failure~ If the \wrking of the laws of God will end up in farmers not getting crops throuRh the ~orking of nature and fishermen end up through the working of nature in not gettin~ a catch. It is a crop failure. It is a catch failure and if you treat the farrr.ers generously and help_them because they had a crop failure, are you not willing to do the same thing.

Is not Canada willing to do the same thing for the fishery?" He said, "Joe, I cannot think of any argu1:1ent against it." So I went through the main points of the Hedland,and Ncnzies written report, which I presented in my name. He agreed. Well I said, "all right, sir-, alL right, •hat we want, therefore, is a great national fisheries policy, a great national Canadian all Canada, all provinces, a national fisheries policy. Not just a policy for Newfoundland. That makes us beggers. That rr~kes us ask you, demand that you Ottawa shall make chalk of one and cheese of another. We do not want to be put

¥~reb 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 172 Page lt . in a special class by ourselves. That makes us beggers. So we do not want a Newfoundland fishery propram, lie want ap all Canada fishery program. One for the nation, t:~ake it national." Well he said, "yes, I must say that sounds reasonable." I said, "the beginning of it should be the holding of a great national conference in Ottal·ca." He wrote me a letter. I came back with that letter in my pocket and I published it full page in the Evenlng Telegran, full page.

I published that letter • And the conference ''as held, this ~reat national fisheries conference was held in Ottawa and all the fishing provinces of Canada - in fact all ·of the provinces, all ten of them were there and this was my- as the one who started the ball rolling, this is ~hat I said at that conference, Mr. Speaker: "The convening of this conference is the culmination of long and fervent hope for Newfoundland. A :•ear ago the Governr.1ent of Nwfoundland made a presentation to thcGovern!.'lent of Canada - a presentation . ,, that we-·,r:1.titled 1'national fisheries development.

In that presentation, we talked We are still talking about a national policy and we still visualize the Regional and the Provincial Fisheries Programs to be developed within tne framework of national policy as integral parts of a broad,national,all Canada, coast to coast fisheries development program. We are not talking about a policy conceived as a system of Welfare payments and handout programs.

We are talking about policy designed to achieve far-reaching development and investme~t programs that will enable our Canadian fishermen, vhether they be in Newfoundland or Qu~bec, in Manitoba or British Columbia, our Canadian fishermen to' make a descent living from the harvesting of the rich resources of the sea, the lakes and the rivers of our land. This is what ~e ask for Newfoundland. This is what ~o·e ask for Canada. IJe do not have it today. Today the position of the fishermen is prej:tdice' 1by risk and uncertainty in terms of both price and production, and so on and so on.

That is vhy all of us are here today. That is what we must concentrate upon over the next five days. If we agree merely to increase social and l.Jelfare payments to the fisher~en, we shall have failed. If we a~ree merely to construct a few more facilities such as: processing, storage plants and bait stations, we shall 70./

, have failed. But we can succeed. He can succeed by building new health into a potential!~ rich industry by making those policy breakthroughs, which will result in new opportunities and hew hopP- for the fishermen of Canada. I went on and on." Then I read them the letter. Before I read the letter, I said this: "the National Agricultural Policy is a charter for agricultural developcent across Canada. Its objective is the prosperjty of Canada's fa~ers. Its techniques are to achieve the maximum productivity of the nation'·s fann resources, the best possible quality of production, the rnaxi~um expansion of markets.

Its specific measures include price support and price stabilization, various forms of yield and income insurance, rr~ssive infusions of credit, the establishment of ~~rketing agencies and of e~~ort credits, market expansion, quality,maintenance and control, transportation assistance, a~ricultural research and not infrequent special extension of forms of aid such as: cash advances, acreage pa]~ents, land use mapping and conservation and resource recla~tion, through the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Act, the }!ari time ~'arshland Reclamation Act and the Agricultural Rehabilitation and Developi".ent Act." Now equivalent development rr.e~sures are to be tr~de a\'ailable to the fishe-ries in accordance with an undertaking given by Canada's Prime !!inister.

Now by this time, Mr. Pearson was Prime }:inister you see. He had becow.e ?rime Hinist~r in the meantime. A year ago the Government of Ne1~foundland presen~ed its brief to the Government of Canada on national fisheries devel:Jpment and in response I received a promise from the Right hon. L. B. Pearson that the fishermen would receive treatment co~parable to the farmers of Canada. P.ere is what the Prime Minister, Mr. Pearson wrote. Now, Hr. Speaker, heal.'! this letter. · February 13, 1963 Dear Mr.

Smallwood:- ~I am grateful to you for giving me a copy of the presentation of the Government of Newfoundland to the Government of Canada on national fisheries develop~ent and for the opportunity as leader of the Liberal party to express my attitude to these proposals for a national fishery policy." (:·:cloT listen to this).

"While during an election campaign, I could not possibly secure the expert advice I would require to m~ke a judgment in detail of the various proposals, your approach to a national fishery policy is ri~ht in line with the declared policy of the National Liberal Party to take parallel action for the welfare of

March 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 172 Page 4 fanners and fishermen." Parallel action and with the objective setforth in my speech of February 11 quote, "to ensure the farmers and the fishermen of all Canada their fair share of the 'national inco~e and opportunities for a better life." "I have no hesitation, therefore, (he went on to say) in undertaking, if I become Prime }!inister after April 8 to submit the Newfoundland proposals to the Department of Fisheries and other agencies of Government concerned for immediate examination and report to be followed promptly by the calling. of a Federal-Provincial Fisher.ies Conference to work cut a Federal-Provincial Program for Fishery Development to be founded on the principle that ~ational action for fisheries should patallel the action already being take~ and action to be taken for agriculture." Yours sincerely, T •• B.

Pearson. Now that was a historic declaration by the leader of the Liberal party who became Prime ~~nister a few weeks after that; namely that what Canada does for her farmers must be paralleled by what she does for her fishermen That if there is crop failure insurance for the farmers, there should be crop failure insurance for the fishermen. If there are ~ssive infusions of capital for the farmers, there should be massive infusions for the fishercen and so on and so~, The difference being only this, difference of size. There ~re far more farmers than there are fishermen.

Therefore, when you put money out, you put more out for farners than you put out for fisherl!!en. tfuat you do for farmers you do for fishe~~n. Eut you do it on a big~er scale fo~ farmers, because there are more of them. Now the big thing of all in this report, page thirty-two is this, Mr. Speaker, "marketing and price stabilization,

(1) Neoi'foundland's first need is the creation of a national marketing agency for salt fish that would result in orderly marketing and the establishment of the principle o£ forward pricing. That is naming the price early in the season. The fishermen knowing before he , goes fishing what price he is going to get. The creation, it says, of a national 7&3

•.. I ¥~rch 3rd., 1970 Tape no. 172 Page 5 ~arketing agency for salt fish that would result in orderly w~rketing and the establishment of the principle of forward pricin~. The establishment of such an an agency for salt fish marketing in the Atlantic Region, an agency that could do for the salt cod producer ~hat the Canadian Wheat Board has done for the prairie farmer would be of benefit to the producer, the processor and the fishing industry.

It wculd tend to stabilize prices received by fishe~en, reduce the market risks of processors and handlers and achieve the orderly delivery of a quality product to export markets.

The benefits of such a board would, of course, be aYailable to any other Atlantic Province ~;hich wished to take advantage of the service:: and protection it would advise." It went on and on spelling . out the idea of a salt cod fish marketing board that would be national, national, not just the Govern~ent of Newfoundland, but the Government of Canada, a national l!'arketing; board with the strength and the ll'.Oney and the prestige and the organization of the Canadian Governnent put squarely Not a weak, puny;board 1 backed only by the Government of this Sl!'..all Province, but rather a board backed by the might and the strength and the money of the Government of our great nation, a national marketing board for salt cod .

I spelled it out, Hr. Speaker, in 1962. I spelled it out in 1963. I spelled it out in 1964. I came in our House of Asse~bly and I spobe for five days on the fisheries. I made the loneest speech in the history of the Hvuse of Assembly for long more than a 100 years. It vas all about fish and I am the one they sometimes accuse of not __ being interested in the fisheries. No, I am not interested in the fisheries. That is why I ta~k about it, because I am not interest~ in it. That is why I have for these long years advocated the setting up of a great salt codfish marketing board. That is why I advocated it.

That . is why I demanded it. That is why I have taken one action after the other, every action that you could think of, I took : If there was·. any action I failed to take to bring up this reform was because I could not think of it. Anyone I did think of, I did.

March 3rd. 1970 Tape 173 PK - 1 and I did persuade the Government of Canada, I did persuade the Prime ~1inister, Mr. Pearson and the essential members of his cabinet. ADcl in that cabinet, ~'!r. Pickersgill "ho ~•as an extreme!? influential cabjnet minister, Nr. Pickersgi11 did everything in his resourceful pot.;cr, and a very resourceful and inp.enious mind he has indeed to p,et the Canadian Governl'lent to do it. lle r\id not succeed, Hr. Speaker, I did not succeed, none of us succeeded. He were blocked. \,'hy vere we bl6cked? He ,,•ere blocked.

We were stopped in our tracks, because another province, bigger than we, not far from us, a nearby province did not t·7ant it. There merchants did not want it. They did not t-rant it. They t·:ere o!'roscd to it, and they had enough influence to block it, and they did block it. Eut. ~i r, the time carne - no1-: they ca1:1e dm.rn here, all those ~rerchants fron ~:ova Scotia came dot."n here to St. John's, they came in to see ~rc, they came over to my home, and ve talked until one or ~~o o 'elock in the 1:1ornin):.

And tve talked, and we talked, and we talked, and we "·on over about half of those Nova Scotia r::erchants. He won them over, about half of them. But, sone of the more powerful ones, still said no. And gradually, Sir, one by one 'lo."e converted them. One by one, but it took ever since 1962, and this is now 1970, And <Ve never stopped in those ei!'ht years. l~e have never stopped. And finally, ve have sucess. And the Speech from the Ttrone refers to it, in these words; '' ~:r.

Speaker and members of the Honourable llouse of Assembly was with deep satisfaction, that my Government tvelcol".ed the decision of the Government of Canada to introduce lef!islation into Parlia1Cent tc proc•ide a great reform in the salt cod fish industry. The orranization of a marketinr board has been advocated for many years hy my ministers. And in June of 196l, they asked your House to adopt lepislation to provide for the creation of the w.arketing board insofar as your House had the constitutional competence to do so.

This lef!islation was enacted, and has reposed in statutes of this province, sinee 1964, that is "here rny hon. friend was thinking of 1964, was the year we brought this legislation into the House. It was 1964 awaiting only the enactment of Federal le?islation to give it lep,al effect.

My mintsters share fully the competence felt by the fishermen in the prospect of better p'rices and conditions in the salt cod fishery industry this year, than in the future.•· Now, Sir, after all this t~ork had been done, and after "'e had brought Redlin and ~lenceys dot."n here, and after I had taken the report to the Canadian Government, that were fallin~ apart at that moment, and after I had got the promise from ~r. Pearson, and after the f!reat national fisheries conference was held in Ottawa then I hrourht lep,isl:Jt1on into this ChamhE'r, in 19(,4 :~fter two years of solid ,7{../-

Harch 3rd. 1970 Tape 173 PK- 2 efforts, we hroup,ht the le?.islation in, I think. I i.ntrodueed it, I am not sure. The Hinister of Fisheries at the time, was the ~.ate John T. Cheesenan. I think, he was the !1inister of Fisheries, -.;as he not? The present reember for Trinity North was the ~iinister of Fisheries, in that ease I expeet ~y hon. friend introduced it, as minister. IHll did I ii'.trodue it? I·Iell, I introdueed it. nut, the hon. member wh was then the Hinister of Fisheries spoke a loni' speech, and a 11reat speech it was, I remember it well on this great topic.

And the late John Cheeseman spoke ; on it. And many men spoke on both sides of the House, and everyone agreed. There was no disagreement. It was un.<imimous. The entire House Tories and Liberals, all voted for it. h'e favoured it stronf!ly and it l<ent·,on the statute·books, anC: it is the Law of :;e,~foundland today. An· Act, an Lm,, to set up a salt cod fish marketing board. Nat~ w·e passed ours in 1964. Nova Seotia rr.ust pc.ss theirs no;; in 1970. And New Brunsuick "'ill pass theirs in 1970. And P.E. I. ~>rill pass theirs in 1970, but 1:e were ready ever since 196!,.

And then l·!e have people 1..-ith the gall to get up snd say, that this Government can take·no credit at all- no credit it '"as six loud Tory Opposition me~::bers in the Eouse of Coc.r.ons, t.•ho should !!et the credit for it. Of course, that is goini! on all the tirr.e. You know '!."hat Liu:y t"et:1.i.nd me of, }lr. Spea~:er, I rer:ember over on hell lslanc! years ago, 1 ~"as organizing the mine • .. :orkers in a very stronr union. And after a great rr.any nights in the Union Eall, 1.-e sat around, tle got yarning, and there -was Jack Kent, and.

Mike O'Neil, and there was - I forget them noH, t<e sat around and got t:alking, ar.d swapping stories and yarns and they told me about one man, who 1mrked on the surface. He was a labourer. And when the whistle would go, they describec it for me, they sho..,ed oe how it was, if he \vas dig)?ing with a pick axe, a pick axe like t:his, and when the )"lick ~:as up like that, if the whistle went he vould just let his hands go, and the pick fell and he tvas hal~ t·!ay home, before the pick axe struck the ground. Hell, the Tories in Ottawa are just like that.

They hear of this, or they hear of that, they talked to this minister, or this deputy minister or this clerk in a department, and they get word of something, and before - look, the r.1an still has his mouth opened speaking to them when the Tory is on the phone calling the radio stations in St. John's, or Corner Brook as the case might be. They are calling the radlo stations and announcing the great news. And I suppose, I do not know, if it is so, hut I <Jould imagine that a lari!e proportion of those who hear this on the radio thinks that it was those Tory mcmbers . who did it, and the radio stations fall for it.

They all fall for it. All they do is hold on, wait a minute wait a minute, Mr. 'lc:Grath, hold it, wait until 1 turn on the machine and tape his 766

Harch 3rd. 1970 Tape H 173 PK- 3 voice. And the next thing you hear a voice comin~ over the air, T·lr. McGrath, Mr. Carter, Nr. Lundri)':an, and so on, and they tr.akinp; these announcements. l!y Gcd, they must be running Canada. They are up there in Ottawa, they are running the ~hole shot~. You never hear a word from anyone, but those Tory Opposition, and their opposition, Hr. Speaker, they are as pc~o.· erless as church mice. But, the only announcement that was ever made - AN EON. l·::EtffiER: i\ot fair. }:R. SEALLWOOD: l'ot fair. They are very powerful. AN HON. 1-lDfllER: Inaudible.

NR. 5!-iALLWOOD: 1 will concei~·e that, they are uore powerful than church mice. Yes, they are as po;Jerful as cathedral nice. :~t church mice, cathedral mice. AN. RON. HD!BER: That will never get the hon. the Premier an)~· here. MR. SHALU:GOD: That will oel7erl get the hon. Premier \.."hat? any'lo.·here. \-:ell, it depends on where the hon. PreTJier toants to get. The only thin~ the hon. Premier ever wanted in t:ewfoundland froo the poeple, t.·as to be elected Pre~:~ier, that is all he ever ''anted.

I never asked the :;e.:foundland people to do anything for me except, to elect me Premier, and I did that six tir::cs, and you knot,. ~o.·hat happened on the six tir:es, they did it. Six til!' .es, they elected l'IC Premier , and that is all I ever wanted them to do. I never asked them to do anything else, except elect me Premier. I am modest, I ~ean 1 really do not want very much, I a~ something , like Eartha Kitts.

She dicl not want anythinp:, exc~pt·a fev r:ink coats, and a fe~o.• Rolls F.oyces, you know she did not want anythinr,, and I do not t.•ant anything except for the Newfoundland people to elect ~e as iremier. And six times, I have asked. And I knm• someone else who \o.'ould like to have the same thing. I J,nm.; a cauple over there, that would like - 1 kno\t three at least over there "ho would also like to have the Ne~o.•foundland peonle do the same thing for them. The only trouhle is, MR. J. C. CROSBIE' They are p,oing to do it. ~. SHAI.U:OOD: All three of them are all going to he elected.

You are not going to have a dual candidacy now, you are you to have a trio candidacy. ~!R . CROSBIE: A triumph candidacy. !Q!.. S~'ALLPO_O~: A trial candidacy. A trinity. A tricotic of candidates. One tory, one ex-liberal, and one renerade. ~~ROSBI~: And one Independent Liberal.

~larch 3rd. 1970 Tape Ul73 ~rR. S~'.ALLli'OOD: Independent. HR. CROSBIE: Inaudible. Mr. S!1!LLUOOD; Yes, I found that l!lut in the Convention. PK- 4 l!R. CROSBIE: Yes, forty percent of the people voted for the dele~ates. MR. SHALU/OOD: Much more higher - MR. CROSRIE: It never happened in political history before. }!R. S~1ALL1WOD: No, but, the troublz is the trouble ~dth that statement is that it is not true. Because, the forty percent lvere not all liberals. The forty percent were not all liberals. Nearly half of them were tories. Nearly half of them ~•ere tories.

Nearly half of ther.> were tories recruited especially in certain parts of the Province to come in as the quick easy and cheap, a mere buck, just a buck, just a dollar, a cheap quick easy way to ~et at Joey. And what good faithful tory would not do that. I mean sure any ~ood tory: would do that, would he not? I mean any tory,would help his party, that~rnuch, would he not? Just a paltery dollar. A paltery buck, and you get your ~ard and ~o in and vote, and elect your dele~ates. And get them into the conve.ntion.

Surely that is the quickest, and easiest 1my to p;et Joey, is it not? l''hy ~·ait for a general election? Why wait for a ~eneral election? If you do wait. for a r.eneral election, you will probably lose again, th<tt little ,;o and so, he ah,ays ~·ins. Rut, let us !!Ct him in the convention. Let us get him there. That accounts for a lar!!e part of that forty percent. It would have been the fairest kind of a convention ever held, if he had won. It would be the most democratic convention ever held, if he had won. Everything IVould have been honkey dorey. There Yould not be anythine wrong with it at all, Hr.

Spe<tker, if he had IJon. But, you know what happened7 He did not \lin. You hear. ~ffi. CROSBIE: Who did? MR. SHALL\JOOD: Who did? MR. CROSBIE: Yes. MR. SHALLh'OOD: ~ewfoundland did. The Liberal Party did. I did. ~. CROSBIE: It is a shame. It is a shame. MR. S~'ALLlWOD: It is a shame, is it not? \."hat a shame. ~m. CROSBIE! The hon. p,entleman is ~oin~ to find out what a shame it is too. MR. S~'ALL\'DOD: Yes .

Harch 3rd. 1970 Tape 173 PK- 5 Y.R. T. ALEX HICJQ!AN: I presume, }lr. Speaker, this comes under the solemnization of marringes? speech from the Throne. '1-!R. S!-'.ALUiOOD: The hon. gentleman is a dead duck ?Olitically. MR. CROSBIE: Quack, quack, quack. MR. SK~LL~~OD: Ri~ht, a dead duck. Politically, a dead duck. NR. CROSBIE: Come in duck huntin~ in St. John's l·!cst. ~~LLl,~OD: He is politically a dead duck. AN RON. l[E}!BER: Inaudible. }!R, SY.ALWOOD: Well, I could relate it, hut I wiil not. It tvould he too personal. 1 could relate it, I could talk :~hout the fishery resmlation. HR.

HICKHAN: Do not ever talk about the south coast. Do not ever talk about the south coast. :1-!R. SHALL~'OOD: And how they failed. And why they failed. I did it 111n the south coast, I went up the southwest coast and held ~eetinr,s,in every tow~ as far as Grand Bank, St. Lawrence, Lama line, }larystown, Point au GauL ri~ht around to Grand Bank I held meetings for the F. P. U. for Coaker.:, right in the midst of Coaur;: thought I ~as crazy to risk it, I said, I t~lll go up there Sir liilliarn, and I will tell them the story of the fishery regulations. And I will tell them what you are tryin~ to accomplish.

And I tdll tell them ~hat fishery regulations are meant for, vrhat they are trying to do. That they are tryinr, to do sorr.ething for the fishermen. And I did. And I held meetinr, after ~etinr,, after meeting up there and I made friends on that visit. It must have heen 1920 or 21, I met friends that became~life long friends up there. And there are a few of them still up there. One I remember t.1ell, is Fred Budp.en.iL r. !; • Iludgen lived over Epto.·art. .Another man who is also a personal friend of mind, opposed ~e when I advocated Confederation,

NR. S~!ALL\-:OOD: lip at Point au Gaul across from Lamalinc, he has been a navy oan HR. HICiZ)Wi: Henry Tulk MR. S:·IALLl{OOD: Henry Tulk, Henry 'Was a great friend of mine, a great old F.P.U. man, a great Coaker e1an, a war veteran in ti1e Royal :-lavy in the first War - but to tr.y amazement ant! surprise he opposed Confederation and I believe he turned Tory. HR. HIC~!AN: Then he dietl lind then he tlied HR. HICK:·IA:-1: I have heard some of the older people talk about what they vent through under the fisheries re~;ulatiotls, the old fish.;rrnen of Lamaline still t~erc. It is not a pleasant memory HR.

S}L.-\LU/OOD: The noblest effort made in our history to up-lift the fishertr.en was the great attcy:,~t of Sir william Coaker, and t~1e fishery regulations ~rn.. IiiCK:'L\H: It 1~as abusetl ~rn.. S~~\LLwQOD: It was ahead of it's time- it was way ahead of it's ti~e.

After they l.'ere all gone people suddenly sat back when the hatred died dmm th;: bi<;ctry ::::d the rrej1Jdi CC' :3n..l ~ne hatrc>d ;~nd the in tolerance - lvhen they finally cooled dmm, and ti lv<lS not a roaring flame any more in :<ewfoundland, and people began to recover their sanity - people began to say - Over in Portugal ti1e Government have set up a"consortia"to control the imports of every cod.' s tail that comes in to Portugal. In Spain they have set up another the "Grcmiou" or was the "<.rcmiou" in Italy? HR. HIC!G!fu'l: Ti1e "Gremiou" was Portugal ~!R.

S::l.ALLI~OOD: The "Gremiou" 1.1as Portugal, "Consortia" "as Spain, ~o'nat did they have in Italy? What was it called in Italy? In every importing country the Government of the country had set up a tight organization to put the most rigid control on the imports into their country - and here 1.1as Newfoundland that had ruade an heroic attempt to control the exports so that a Govern:nent controlled export body in :-;:e~•foundland <Voulu ship fish to a Government controlled body importin~ fish in Spain, or Portugal or Italy or Greece.

The moment you organized the importation of a commodity into a country, at that moment it becomes absolutely a matter of life and death that the exporting country should be similarly organized. When they smashed the fishery regulations here in i-le1.1foundland, and the hatred died dol.Tn, anti the bir,otry, and the passion died dol.Tn two or three years after that - vhen you could mention fishery regulations without /7lJ

some men getting apoplexy - without some men throwing a fit, after two or three or four years it began to dmm on people in ;~ewfoundland - maybe Coaker ,.,as ri~ht. What kind of a condition are we in now? You have now a bunch of independent fish exporters who hate each other, who knife each other, who cut each ot!1ers throats, competing with each otl1er in markets that are tightly controlled by the importers. I do not know if I ever told the story of the famous meeting on Water Street, in the Board of Trade, where t!le merchants met - the exporters met in a private meeting to fix on certain minimum prices.

They would all agree that they would demand and get - and they would not ship below those prices to the various markets, and they agreed on it. Now to make it binding they put a fine, anyone who would break that would p<rj $1,000. and $1,000, used to be a lot of money in 1921-2-J-4, it was a lot of money - a fine of $1,000.

And the story of the man slipping out of the meeting to go apparently to the toilet, at any rate he carne back into t:1e room buttoning up, so it loo!.:ed really like he had been in the toilet, he had not been hear the toilet, he hac.l 6one to the pbone to phone his office and tell them to cable so and so - that was hi:> oro;.er in chis mar;cec, t1lac market, anti ci1e other market offering the fish for five shillings les,; than the price agreed on in the :Jeeting.

Glad to sell it for five shillings less because he would sell it - he -.:auld get ahead of all the ot:1ers - he \:auld cake a sale and he sold the fish, and do'-n would come the price because, if he sold it for five :shillings less, no one else coultl !;et til at (ive sl!illint;s they had to sell it for the sar.~e five 5hillinr,s lC?ss. He paid his $1,0:>0. fine, but he had made the sale, and he had got over the otht!rs. Dishonesty o E course, dis!JOnourabl~ of course it was dishonour able.

It was contemptedly dis honourable, it ~,;as oespicably di,;hones t and dishonour able, of course it was, And the real victir..s ;·!r. Speaker, vere not the merchants although some of them suffered savagely. I knew a fish merchant well, he and I became clos~,pcrsonal,intim:tte friends. He '~as unenployed - I was unemployed, and we \·Jere both Liberals, t~e both disliked the Government in power - they ~Jere Tories, and '~e met - oh ilun<.lretls of days we ~'let and I kne~~ the story of his life. He vas 'wrth $500,000. cash.

Half· a million in cash and that Has an awful lot of mo11ey in t:1c 20's. l.ri1en I kne\1 him he was unemploye<.l. I met him one morning " hello" I saitl, " hO\~ are you," and I \.l'as sort of proud to knou this bi!) built, handsome looking, man who had been one of the famous merchants. I am sort of proud that I knct~ him. IT l'o me ile \.las

a fascinating experience to hear the life story of this man - of this t_ransaction, ~oing to this m<:~rK.et, going to that market - you know, selling this ship load, selling tlrat ship load, buying this vessel, selling that vessel - a man who had been up to his very neck in the salt sodfish trade and was Harth half a million.

I met him this morning, I said " hello, how are you?" i1e said " do you want to know?" I looked a little surprised and I said "well yes · " ''do you want to know how I am ?'' I said " yes sure " "well" he saici " I have just gotten orders to get out of my house " I said " what do you mean?" He said " the landlord ordered me out, my furniture is going to be stuc~ out on the sidewalk today." So I took him to a man \~ho paid his rent, I did not have it to give him, and I took him to the man, I took him to Sir Richard Squires in fact - and Sir Richard Squires gave him enough money to pay his rent, which was about eieht dollars a month in those day in St.

John's. It was not one of the hest houses in the city, and he \~as paying eight dollars a month or nine dollars month rent or some pitiful little amount of rent, and he could not afford it and Sir Richard gave him enough money to pay his rent for three months. That man lost c·.;ary l<.1st ::::.~t !-.c c' .• ~ed on this earth. He never went on relief, but he came pretty close to it, he was "Paddy Keefe"to it, as they say.

And merchant after merchant after merchant after merchant in Newfoundlaad lost his shirt and his drawers and everything he owned on the earth, stripped naked, merchant after merchant after merchant. So it is not only the merchants who \{ere lrurt by that system, it "'as not only the fishermen who "'ere hurt but the merchants as well. The merchants were their ovn worst ener.ries but \·torst than that, Mr. Speaker, they were the fishermen's enemies, without even meaning to be, without intending to be enemies of the fishermen - they were the fishennen's worst enemy except for one.

The worst enemy the fishermen had were the fishermen and the worst enemies the merchants had vere not the fishermen, they were the merchants. Each was his o~~ worst enemy and both were caught up, entangled in a completely hopeless system, a system that had no hope in it. It had in it only the seeds of destruction and poverty. It could not succeed, it was doomed to fail. Oh! a merchant would mak.e it into the clearing nm: and he would be stripped next year. A mat:h~nt, a fisherman might do very well for one year and even two years running and then for the next three years he was on relief.

They were all victims, merchants

Harch 3, 1970 Tape 174, l'age li -- apb and fishermen. l"ney were all victims of the same, not vicious system (I have often heard it called vicious, I think, but it was not so much a vicious system as it a stupid one, stupid, just as stupid. They say that God can forgive every sin but the sin of stupidity and believe me, Mr. Speaker, you can lead a horse or a cow or a pig, as I have done so often, hundreds of thousands of pigs I looked at them, studied them and watched them - and I am going to tell you that pigs are not as stupid as you might think they arc.

Lots of ani~als are stupid and some are not quite so stupid but a human being that is stupid)and r.;ewfourtdland has suffered from that human stupidity, nowhere 1:1orc tii.:1n in the salt cod trade of this Island because, you s~e, it is so obvious. I remember \vri ting in the "Fisherman 1 s Advocate" in 1921. I ~~as living in :·:ew York and I used to write and send pieces back to the "Fisi•erman' s Advocate" and I said this: I said; (and I was t1ritins; as though it '1-'ere a news report of the biggest meeting ever held in :.;cvfoundland.

It ,.,as so big that there were no ten halls put together that would be big enough to hold them. So they had to pick a big open spac«, :;u .. ;.;;.;lo.:re. cu. the .'s:!.l-.,n PE'ni£1 ~uJ a, and the thirty thou.5and fishermen of :-levfoundland all came to that r.1eeting.

The entire fishing population of the country, the country of ~"<etrfoundland came to that ~reat, big meeting of fishermen. ,\n:i all the merchants cane there as well - so it was a vast meeting of fisheroen and merchants, and there were several speeches matie, but finally one very well spoken fisherman summed up the situation for everyone. ilc said this (and Iwrotc his speech - I wrote the whole piece, his s;;eech vas this ":-io\J11 he said " fellow fishermen and new merchants, we are met here today because we have a mission to -a commission to give you merchants."

March 3, 1970 Tape 175 Page 1 GC We are busy men, us fishermen. We have to build·_boats and equipment and go out fishing and we are out there before dawn and we get ba~k at two or three o'clock in the day, and by the time we get our fish put away, we have all we can do to get a few winks of sleep and we are up again at two o'clock the next morning and we are at it hammer and tongs throughout the fishing season.

We are the busiest men in the country throughout the fishing season and to tell you the truth, you merchants, we have to admit it to you, we have not got time to take in our fish, By the time we catch it and bring it ashore and wash it and split it and wash it and salt it and make it - we have not got any time left. So, we are now commissioning you to act as our agents - to receive the dry fish from us, to sort it out, to weigh it, to sort it, to cut it, to pack it, to ship it, market it and bring the money back and hand it over to us - less your own expenses and a profit for yourselves.

We, hereby, at this great meeting of all the fishermen of Newfoundland do now appoint you merchants, to be our agents to do that part of the fishing trade that we have not got time to do. And then, I had a footnote explaining for the readers of the Advocate that this was all imaginary. There had not been any such great meeting at all. It had not been held, but the fact is, I said--went on to say, that it !s"just as though that great meeting had been held. There is the implied contract. The fishermen produce the fish. They must do their best. They must be good fishermen. They must be good producers.

They must be good fish-makers. They must do their part; faithfully, honestly .,- do it efficiently, do it well. And the merchants must do their part and their

part is so to handle the fish, so to pack, so to organize the quality of it, eo to ship it, so to market it as to bring back the maximum yield in money so that the fishe~en who have nothing else to live on except the money that those merchants can bring back into Newfoundland from Oporto, from Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Malta, the West Indies, Brazil, the money they can bring back into Newfoundland is what little children have to live on and they have nothing else to live on except that Brazil money. ;77"'/- !"'"---~

·. March 3, 1970 Tape 175 Page 2 GC It went on to say all that in that

article - that this was not a legal contract made. It was a contract that in very nature, in the nature of life, could be inferred, though it had never been stated, had never been put in writing. And this is the stupidity of our story for hundreds of ye~rs in Newfoundland. Our merchant class, maybe it might have been fine ,estimable gentle~£n. Some of them were men of culture. Man