H0513pm 04

H0513pm 04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Tuesday, May 13, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Volume 33, Number 4 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC FOURTH SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon.

Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................................................ Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ................................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon.

Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General and Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations............... Hon. John van Dongen Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon.

Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Stan Hagen Minister of State for ActNow B.C. ............................................................................................................................................ Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Deputy Speaker ...........................................................................................................................................................................

Katherine Whittred Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole................................................................................................................................................. Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E.

George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon.

Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................ East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, David (NDP) ......................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................ Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon.

Gordon (L).....................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L) .....................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L)........................................................................ Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas............................................................................... John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay................................................................................

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ............................................Hon. Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................Hon.

Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Tuesday, May 13, 2008 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... ............................................ 12347 Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ........... 12347 Mining industry in B.C. D. MacKay Racism awareness D. Thorne B.C. history poster contest I. Black Marlene Swift G. Coons Canadian citizenship J.

Rustad Asante Centre for Fetal Alcohol Syndrome M. Sather Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ....................................................... 12349 Government action on forest industry C. James Hon. R. Coleman N. Macdonald B. Simpson Funding for post-secondary education R. Fleming Hon. M. Coell J. Kwan Seismic upgrades for schools D. Cubberley Hon. S.

Bond Petitions...................................................................................................................... ............................................................. 12354 D. Thorne Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................. 12354 Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 27) (continued) S. Simpson J. Horgan D. Thorne S. Fraser G. Robertson C. Puchmayr L. Krog Hon. I.

Chong Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 33) Hon. W. Oppal L. Krog B. Ralston University Amendment Act, 2008 (Bill 34) Hon. M. Coell R. Fleming C. Trevena

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................. 12386 Estimates: Ministry of Children and Family Development (continued) N. Simons Hon. T. Christensen M. Farnworth

12347 TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 The House met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Introductions by Members Hon. M. Coell: Mr. Speaker, over the lunch hour members of the opposition and members of govern- ment met with the executive of St. John Ambulance of British Columbia. I thank you for hosting that lunch. I'd like to introduce them now: Mr. Stuart Clyne, chair of the British Columbia and Yukon Council, St. John Ambulance; Mr. Larry Odegard, chief executive officer, St. John Ambulance, British Columbia and Yukon; Mr. Logan Stewart, vice-chancellor of community ser- vices, priory of Canada, St.

John Ambulance; and Mr. David Harris, chair of the Victoria branch, executive committee of St. John Ambulance. St. John Ambulance will mark its 125th anniversary of volunteer service and firs t-aid training in Canada and its 97th anniversary of volunteer service in British Columbia. St. John Ambulance branches are located in 26 British Columbia communities, and the members of this organization have serv ed their respective commu- nities with professionalism and dedication. St. John Ambulance is Ca nada's leading first-aid trainer.

At cultural, community and sporting events throughout the province, these volunteers are on the scene to provide first aid and health safety–related volunteer services on an as-needed basis until medical assistance arrives. St. John volunteers serve British Columbia communities by providing over 12,000 volunteer hours a year. Please recognize St. John Ambulance and our guests for the service they do for British Columbia. [1335] Hon. I. Chong: Today I have a special introduction, and that is for my administra tive assistant Linsey Cole.

She is the cheerful voice and friendly face you encoun- ter when you contact my office here in the Legislature. Linsey will be taking a few days off and next week as well, because on Sunday, May 18 she will be getting married to her fiancé Chris Tupper, who works for the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. I would like to wish my ad ministrative assistant the very best as she embarks on this new journey with her new partner in life, and I wish the House would please give them their warm wishes. Hon. J. van Dongen: I have two sets of introductions today.

Visiting the Legislature is the Pacific NorthWest Economic Region executive leadership group. They've had a full morning of meetings, with more meetings with ministers to come.

Joining us today are State Representative George Eskridge of Idaho, PNWER president; speaker pro tempore Jeff Morris from the Washington State House of Representatives and president of the Energy Hori- zon Project for PNWER; Senator Lesil McGuire from the Alaska State Legislature and PNWER vice- president; John Leech, executive director and registrar of the Applied Science Tec hnologists and Technicians of British Columbia; Neil Windsor, professional engi- neer, president and registrar of the Association of Professional Engineers, Ge ologists and Geophysicists of Alberta; his counterpart Derek Doyle, professional engineer, president of the As sociation of Professional Engineers and Geoscientists of British Columbia; John Hansen, president of the North West CruiseShip Association; and Matt Morrison, executive director of PNWER.

Also visiting the Legislature is Chris Sands, senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, Washington D.C. — a great partner of PNWER. I ask the House to give them all a great Victoria welcome. J. Horgan: Members of this place will be familiar with my alpha and my omega, spouse Ellie. Joining her in the gallery today is my youngest son, the able and always charming Evan Horgan. Would the members please make them very, very, very welcome. Hon. R. Thorpe: Today visiting the Legislature are 11 team members from the Ministry of Small Business and Revenue. They work in the customer service and information branch.

They ar e Wayne, Danna, Belinda, Cynthia, Andrea, Claire, Ke vin, Cynthia, Kristina, Terry and Mila. I would ask all members of this House to give these very dedicated public servants a warm welcome to the House. D. Hayer: I have two special guests today from my constituency: Hanif A. Karmally, CFO of the Teal-Jones Group, and John Pichugin, manager of engineering and forestry from the Teal-Jones Group. Would the House please make them very welcome. Hon. J. van Dongen: Also visiting us today is Rosie Llewellyn-Thomas from Fort McMurray, Alberta.

She is visiting her daughter, my administrative coordinator Marnie Llewellyn-Thomas. Sh e's been enjoying Victo- ria for the past two weeks, and I ask the House to please make her very welcome. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) MINING INDUSTRY IN B.C. D. MacKay: This is Mining Week. British Columbia has been one of the world's major mining regions since the 1800s, and today we continue to be a key interna- tional player in the mining industry. The Hudson's Bay Company started producing coal on Vancouver Island in the 1840s, and the discovery of gold along the Fraser River in the 1850s saw a gold rush that resulted in the settlement of many parts of our province that we call home today. Most of the early mining activity took place underground until the

12348 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 1960s, when open-pit mining production increased tremendously. [1340] In 2007 we saw $416 million spent on mineral explora- tion throughout our province. That's a remarkable 1,300 percent increase over 2001. We saw 1.25 million metres of drilling, an increase of 51 percent from the previous year. Today we have ten metal mines, nine coalmines and over 30 industrial mines in production. As reported in Pricewaterhouse today, production from those prop- erties generated $6.9 billion. That's a lot of money.

Today there are 20 new projects under environ- mental review. Some 54 percent of Canadian exploration companies are based right here in British Columbia, and 28,000 people in 15 communities are employed in the mining sector. Once again, I would remind everybody that wages and benefits within this sector average $101,000 annually. Mining is part of what British Columbia was and c o n t i n u e s t o b e . M i n i n g W e e k i s a n o p p o r t u n i t y t o acknowledge and recognize the importance of this sector to the economy of our province. RACISM AWARENESS D.

Thorne: Today more than ever, youth are aware of societal issues and are tremendously keen to take action on those issues. Hillcrest Middle School in my riding has two students who have done just that re- cently. They have sent me a letter, which I'm going to read to you, but I just want to say first that these two students researched the pr oblem of racism and then embarked on a campaign to collect signatures for a petition that I will present later. Their youthful idealism propelled them to walk their neighbourhoods, talk with people and ask for their signatures.

They are aw are that government does take measures to address the problem of racism, par- ticularly amongst youth, but they believe that more can be done. I'd like to now read their letter. "We are grade 8 students of Hillcrest Middle School in Coquitlam, and we have put together a petition to make the provincial "ministry of racism awareness" hap- pen. When collecting signatures, we realized that it was much harder than we thought it would be. Therefore, we only have 69 signatures, but we still hope that you will put this to the correct people. We started this petition to create the first step in the process.

"We did this to get the government to realize that they are not putting enough effort into racism awareness, and more effort needs to be put into this huge problem. We're hoping that this step will make the government take the rest of the needed steps. "Our concern of racism is that every day people are discriminated against and made to feel inferior by people that don't know how it feels to be left out in the dark and to not have any support by a group of people who should be giving them the most support — the government.

"We'd like the government to spend as much time and money as they do to organize other things, such as the Olympics and other events. For starters they could create posters and presentations in schools as a lot of ra- cism takes place in our schools. Billboards and notices, or even special fairs or other events, would be perfect. Please, we want to thank you very much for any support and help that you might offer." T h a t i s s i g n e d b y M a t h e w B r o w n a n d C o n n o r Wright, and they are the representatives from the grade 8 class at Hillcrest Middle School.

I just think they've done a tremendous job. B.C. HISTORY POSTER CONTEST I. Black: Yesterday in the Legislature the Office of the Speaker held a celebration to showcase the win- ners of the BC150 poster contest. The contest, which is entitled "Discover Your Community: History in Art," was launched to support the celebrations of the 150th anniversary of the Crown colony of British Columbia. Students from across the province were invited to submit a poster depicting a historical event in their local communities.

I'd like to congratulate Tessa Warhurst of Lillooet, Lisa Xie of Vancouver, Derrick Van Viegen of Port Alberni and Eric Kim of Vancouver for their first- place entries. But how in good conscience could I stand here representing the riding that includes the City of the Arts, Port Moody, and not celebrate local students who also submitted some very, very impressive displays? Two local students, in particular, fared really well. They are not only in the same grade and in the same school, but they are also iden tical twin sisters.

Ariana and Saskia Vaisey from Summit Middle School were the first and second runners -up respectively in their grade category. Both girls submitted original work com- memorating the completion of the Canadian Pacific Railway, which also happened in Port Moody. [1345] Ariana's poster illustrated a poised Agnes Macdonald, wife of Prime Minister Sir John A., as she rode the rails across the country for the very first time.

Saskia's poster portrays the Golden Spike Day, the party that cele- brates the completion of the railway — a party that we still continue to celebrate at our annual Golden Spike Days in Port Moody. It's the July long weekend. Do mark your calendars. A couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to meet these amazing young women when I paid a sur- prise visit to their school to present each of them with their BC150 prize packages, compliments of the Speaker's office. This contest was a great opportunity for our young people to learn about our history, to contemplate our heritage and to celebrate our province.

Please join me in congratulating all of those who took the time to participate. MARLENE SWIFT G. Coons: Today I'd like to take a couple of minutes to honour one of my good friends and constituents Marlene Swift, whose story of strength, courage and survival should stand as an inspiration to us all. First I'd like to congratulate Marlene as being one of the six

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12349 people recognized last week with the Courage to Come Back Award. Marlene's story of poverty, violence, addiction and abuse could have easily led to an unhappy situation, but because of her extraordinary will to overcome, her endless forgiveness and the fo rce of her character, she has triumphed over her many challenges. As a youth she was born into a family troubled with alcoholism and violen ce, and she suffered from sexual abuse at the hands of family acquaintances.

At age 16 she tried to escape her family through marriage, but it proved no better than what she had left. Driven into alcoholism and drug abuse, her partners were vio- lent, her children were taken from her, and her life was filled with darkness. The tragedy that changed everything happened in 1983 when Marlene was working as a cab driver in Prince Rupert. One November morning her passenger turned on her with a knife to her throat and ordered her to drive out to a deserted stretch of highway. She was brutally raped, tossed out of the cab and left for dead.

She managed to flag a passing motorist who took her to the hospital, but her deepest wounds were be- yond anything that the doctor could do. She was afraid to leave her house or answer the phone. However, this tragedy would prove to be one that drove her to triumph. Marlene's assailant pled guilty, and Marlene was determined to turn her life around. She began to face her pain and conquer her addictions. Today Marlene is a voice of hope for people who are struggling with their own demons. In her work as project coordinator for Prince Rupe rt RCMP victim services, Marlene is truly an inspiration to many of us.

I'd like to conclude with a few of Marlene's own words to those who suffer from addictions: "Life is worth living without the addiction and the addictive behaviour, because you are worthy." CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP J. Rustad: Citizenship is something that's often taken for granted. So when I spoke with Karen Muir, a grade 12 student at Nechako Valley Secondary School in Vanderhoof, I decided to share her comments. Karen recently attended a 4-H event in Ottawa and wrote the following: "They were all nicely dressed, for this was an es- pecially important occasion.

The older children were wide-eyed, while the babies slept in their mothers' arms. The adults appeared to be a bit tired but excited. This was the end of a long journey. "The people I speak of are a group of new Canadians I met while attending a citizenship ceremony in Ottawa. The background of the group was varied. Some were refugees, some joining family, and some just fell in love with Canada. Regardless of their history, they were all elated and excited to become a Canadian citizen.

"Upon taking the oath and receiving the citizen- ship, they knew they'd be gaining the freedoms they had been waiting for, such as the freedom of peaceful assembly and the freedom of speech. These new Ca- nadians received the freedom to even run for office if they so choose. When I co nsidered this, I found my- self joining the new Canadians in their happiness over being Canadian. "Even compared to other developed nations, we have incredible rights and freedoms, yet we rarely take a moment to appreciate them. Some of the refugees were escaping religious and political prosecution.

I am thank- ful that I can't imagine what this would be like. I sure appreciate being Canadian-born. "During the ceremony I was moved to tears by these people and by the ceremony. Seeing the faces of these new Canadian citizens reminded me of how great it is to be Canadian. Seeing how truly joyful they were after receiving their citizenship is a moment and emotion that I'll never forget." Please join me in thanki ng Karen Muir for sharing her experience with us. [1350] ASANTE CENTRE FOR FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME M.

Sather: FASD, fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, describes a full range of disorders and effects that can occur in a person whose mother drank during pregnancy. In 1993 citizens from my community of Maple Ridge began a coordinated and strategic process to address the issues of FASD. Named after FASD treatment and re- search pioneer Dr. Kwadwo Asante of Maple Ridge and funded with a $136,000 provincial grant, this grass-roots- based group implemented their community action plan, creating the FASD Society for B.C in March 1999.

A not-for-profit society, the Asante Centre in Maple Ridge — under the direction of the executive director, Audrey Salahub — has created a compassionate and knowledgable community that works together to pre- vent FASD and to support individuals and families living with FASD to reach their full potential. With a professional team that includes pediatricians, psycholo- gists, speech-language pathologists, clinical counsellors, social workers, nurses, family support workers and research, they and the staff of the Asante Centre bring extensive knowledge, expertise and hands-on experience to all aspects of their work.

Services provided by the Asante Centre include diag- nosis and assessment, educational workshops, counselling and family support. Individu als with FASD and their families experience a multitude of difficulties that persist throughout life. Everyone with FASD is unique, and with the assistance of their dedicated staff, the Asante Centre is able to meet the specific needs of these unique individuals and their families. Oral Questions GOVERNMENT ACTION ON FOREST INDUSTRY C. James: Yesterday I was in Kamloops with hun- dreds of forest workers as the city's sawmill closed down.

It's a story we've seen over and over again un- der the B.C. Liberals' failed forest policy. It's a story

12350 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 that the Minister of Forests has tried to ignore and downplay, even though these are permanent job losses and permanent closures. Instea d of helping, instead of bringing forward a real plan, the Minister of Forests accused us of spreading false hope. Well, I've travelled the province. I've listened to workers and their families. I've listened to communi- ties. They know it's not fa lse hope. They're looking for leadership, but all they get fr om the Minister of Forests is a minister with no hope. My question is to the Minister of Forests.

If he can't get the job done, if he says his hands are tied, why doesn't he step aside and let someone move in who will do the job? Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, maybe I could get the Leader of the Opposition to take the opportunity to read Hansard from yesterday, where I talked not about hope or false hope…. I talked about being honest with British Columbians. That's something you could start….

We're really concerned about the workers in Kam- loops and other areas of the province of British Columbia, but I never heard a thing or saw a thing in any media interviews by the Leader of the Opposition where she told that worker who was on television last night, who wanted to get his grade 12 education, that there was a tuition plan in place by this government for that worker. I never saw anything where you said to the person who was talking about being an older worker and wanting to transition to retirement that there was a plan in place for them to be able to transition.

I saw one quote from the member opposite talking about the fact that we need to do silviculture. Maybe she should go read the silviculture plan to find out that we did 257 million seedlings last year, and we're investing $161 million in silviculture the next…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister. Minister. The Leader of the Opposition has a supplemental. [1355] C. James: Well, that's exactly the problem. We've just seen it illustrated here today. If the minister would stop talking and start listeni ng, he'd hear from forest communities that this government has done nothing to help them — nothing.

I've been to communities like Mackenzie, like Prince George, like Kamloops, like Nanaimo and seen first- hand the devastating effects of this minister's hands-off approach. He should resign. I've talked to the workers who are losing their family- supporting jobs, worried about whether they're going to be able to pay their mortgages. I talked to a worker just yesterday who told me about the fact that there were lockers being cleaned out every single day at the school, because families are leaving because they've lost any hope. B.C.'s forest industry is collapsing.

This govern- ment is ripping the heart out of communities, and the Minister of Forests refuses to hold himself accountable. Again, to the Minister of Fo rests: will he own up to his failure, his failed hands-off approach, and step down today? Hon. R. Coleman: In Kamloops Daily News, May 10, 2008, the Interior Logging Association says that gov- ernment is helping thousand s of forestry workers in Interior communities to bridge the unprecedented challenge facing the forest industry.

It goes on to say, "ILA manager Wayne Lintott…said the association is satisfied the provincial government is doing what it can to address the crisis by adjusting policies," and giving loggers input into those changes. I know the member opposite has a policy that says we would rather not have seen $2 billion come back to our companies in British Columbia so that they could sustain themselves in bad times.

They would much rather have a 30 or 40 or 50 percent duty being paid to the United States out of the pockets of our forest indus- try, which would help nobody in the province of British Columbia and would destroy our industry all together. We're not interested in your policies, hon. Member. We've got good policies in forestry, and we'll continue to have some. Mr. Speaker: I remind members: through the Chair. The Leader of the Opposition has a further sup- plemental. C.

James: Let's take a look at what this govern- ment's policies have brought to British Columbia — nearly 40 mills closed, 13,000 jobs lost in this last year alone, communities across this province on the brink of c o l l a p s e . T h a t ' s w h a t t h i s g o v e r n m e n t ' s p o l i c i e s h a v e brought to British Columbia. The entire industry has lost faith in this minister. They don't want someone who has thrown in the towel. They want real leadership and a real plan, but we're not going to get that from this minister. He's given up, and he's admitted that to all of British Columbia.

My question is to the Prem ier. This isn't about false hope. This is about leadership for communities. Would the Premier fire the Minister of Forests today and actually give some hope to the industry in British Columbia? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: I never give up, and I'll never give up…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: We'll never give up on the fact that since 2004, over $5 billion or $6 billion of capital has been invested in B.C.'s forest sector — the highest

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12351 investment in capital for efficiencies and operations in the history of the province of British Columbia. We won't do what the opposition believes we'd do, and that's just to sell the industry down the river by abrogating the softwood lumber deal and putting them back into punitive duties go ing into the United States, just destroying our industry's future. We will not do that. We will not give up on our…. We will not give up.

I know the member opposite never wants to recognize that we put in place $129 million for retired workers for tuition and for other training and job creation in the province of British Columbia. [1400] N. Macdonald: Yesterday we had the minister trying to avoid questions by sitting down. Today we see bluster. What is clear to all British Columbians who are watching is that it seems that… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. N. Macdonald: … t h e o n l y f o r e s t r y j o b t h a t t h i s minister is willing to fight for is his own. For the 20,000 others, he couldn't care less.

This is the province's most important industry, and it is in complete collapse. Every- one in the province knows that. In Mackenzie alone, four mills have gone down in the last seven months. This year 13,000 jobs have been wiped out, and there's been no provincial money. There's been federal money, but no provincial money. The minister designed and delivered a meaning- less seven-page coastal strategy, and then he refused to curtail raw log exports. He handed over private land so forestry companies could become realtors at the expense of communities.

He has failed to fix first nations forest and range ag reements. Failure, failure, failure. I f a n y o n e i n t h i s H o u s e d e s e r v e s t o b e f i r e d , i t i s him. The Premier should be doing that today. Hon. R. Coleman: I'm sure the people of Revelstoke would appreciate the fact that the member of the oppo- sition from their community would rather sell the Downie Street mill down the river than actually stand up to his own party on the abrogation of the softwood lumber deal. You know what the high-value cap did for the Downie Street mill. They've told you that, hon. Mem- ber.

You know darn well that those jobs are a lot more stable in your community because of that deal, and you want to sell off the forest sector. It's entirely up to you. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Hon. R. Coleman: Mr. Speaker, $129 million to help people transition to early retirement and millions of dollars for tuition for work ers to go get retraining while this downturn takes place. While we do that, we'll keep the industry stable so we can meet what the analysts say will be, frankly, a terrific…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister. Hon. R.

Coleman: Actually, to the member oppo- site who just said what he did: I was an RCMP officer for eight years, and that insult of me personally would never bother me, because I've heard it all. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: There are reasons, and there are excuses. Every day we come here, and we hear excuses. Let's be clear what the reas ons are. The reason that forest worker deaths and injuries have increased is B.C. Liberal forest policy. That's the reason. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. N.

Macdonald: The reason that the value-added sector has collapsed is B.C. Liberal forest policy. The reason that raw logs are being exported at a record level is B.C. Liberal forest policy. The reason that forest- dependent communities are abandoned and left on their own is B.C. Liberal fore st policy. The reason that over 20,000 jobs in 46 mills have gone is B.C. Liberal forest policy. The excuse we hear each and every day — tough markets. Well, British Columbians are sick of the excuses. They are sick of this mini ster. The Premier should get up and fire him today. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Just take your seat, Minister. We're not starting until it's quiet. Members. Hon. R. Coleman: Not telling British Columbians the truth. Housing starts are at an all-time — decades — low in the United States. That's not telling the truth to the people of British Columbia. Having a dollar that's gone to par from 85 cents where every one cent takes $130 million out of the bottom line of forest com- panies in British Columbia…. That's being dishonest with British Columbians. [1405] As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, let me talk to you for just a second about B.C. Liberal forest policy.

In 2005, $1.939 billion in capital investment in the forest

12352 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 sector in the province of British Columbia — big num- bers every year. I've got all kinds of analysts' reports and comments with regards to the future of our sector. We're going to stand with our sector and continue to work for solutions with th em for the long term and with the communities for the long term. This industry has a great future in the province of British Columbia if we weather this storm together. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. B.

Simpson: In October 2005 in this House, the op- position asked this Forests Minister to put together a select standing committee on forestry because we be- lieved at that time that the crisis in the sector was going to deepen, that more forest workers were going to lose their jobs, that more mills would close and that more forest-dependent communities would be hurt. That was 32 months ago. What did this minister say? "No way." It wasn't necessary. We were just being Chicken Little. That's what he said. Well, the chickens have come home to roost.

This minister also said — and this is a direct quote from 32 months ago: "The reality is that we're going to move very quickly. Very shortly there are going to be some things done out there that will as- sist our forest sector…. It's pretty critical that we move…expeditiously." Talk about false hope. Ta lk about being dishonest with the people of British Columbia. It's 32 months later, and this minister still doesn't have a clue what to do. Will the Premier do the right thing? By any meas- ure, this minister has failed. Will he make him job loss 13,001 in the forest sector and take that job away from him? Hon. R.

Coleman: Again, the member opposite refuses to recognize what the government of British Columbia has done for the people of the province with regards to forestry. We're not going to go…. Y o u k n o w w h a t t h e i r p o l i c y w a s . G o b u y t h e Skeena Cellulose pulp mill, blow half a billion dollars out of the taxpayers of British Columbia, and leave nothing but a wasteland behind it in the northwest area of the province. Their other policy was that they were going to have a jobs and timber accord and create 21,000 jobs — and created zero jobs. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, take your seat.

Members, take some time to listen to the question and listen to the answer. Continue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: The opposition were in govern- ment when they totally ignored the beetle epidemic in the Interior of the province of British Columbia. They put no plan in place. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Continue, Minister. Hon. R. Coleman: I always know that I'm getting closer to a nerve, the louder the heckling gets to me across the hall. This is what we've done.

Tens of millions of dollars for the coastal forest action plan, including FPInnova- tions, which is finding new markets and new uses for things like hemlock, which is an important species for the future of the coast of British Columbia. Mr. Speaker: Thank you, Minister. Member has a supplemental. B.

Simpson: We're talking about permanent mill closures, permanent job losses — communities where their entire forest sector is shutting their doors, communi- ties that this minister has told in the public domain: "There's nothing I can do." He said in here: "There's nothing I can do." We deserve a minister who knows that his primary job is to make sure he is doing something in this time of crisis and that his primary job is to protect forest workers and their communit ies to get them through this crisis.

The people of British Columbia deserve better. [1410] So my question is to the Premier, not to the Forests Minister. I challenge the Premier today to stand up in this House and defend this Forests Minister. Is he the right person for this time? Is this the minister that the Premier wants to take this fo rest industry forward, or does he want to continue to see it melt down under his leadership? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: Actually, I love it when they editorialize my comments. I said that there's not much I could do about the U.S. market or the dollar. That is a true factor.

These members opposite are disingenuous to British Columbians if they think they can go down to the U n i t e d S t a t e s t o m o r r o w a n d h a v e t h e m b u i l d a n o t h e r million houses. The reality is that they abandoned Brit- ish Columbians in the 1990s with the pine beetle. Today we spend $642 million in communities across British Columbia to fight the pine beetle. Nothing — not one dollar — invested by the NDP in fighting the pine beetle, only so they could devastate the land base, sell out th ose communities and then stand up in this House an d think that they're on the side of the angels.

I got news for you, Mr. Speaker. The largest amount of capital investments in history is taking place in our forest sector. Our industry is well positioned with modern mills, modern ability to com- pete, and they will compete in the future.

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12353 FUNDING FOR POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION R. Fleming: The chair of Vancouver Community College, Mr. Mark Stock, wrote to this minister about how this minister's cuts imperil excellent programs at that institution and will eliminate 400 FTE student spaces and over a thousand individual student spaces at that institution. Vancouver Community College is looking at clos- ing the American Sign Language and deaf studies department, yet it is connected to one of only four interpreter training programs in all of Canada.

When will the minister admit that his last-minute cuts to colleges like VCC are causing chaos and unacceptable c u t s t o p r o g r a m s , a n d w h e n w i l l h e d o s o m e t h i n g about it? Hon. M. Coell: The Ministry of Advanced Educa- tion has the highest budget it has ever had in the his- tory of British Columbia. It has a $68 million increase in its budget this year. We've invested over $1.5 billion in capital infrastructure, the highest infrastructure pro- gram in the history of the province, and the members continue to berate a system that is doing just great. Mr.

Speaker: Member has a supplemental. R. Fleming: Week after week out there in the sys- tem and across British Columbia, we hear about pro- grams resulting from this minister's cuts, adult basic education programs being eliminated in north Island, engineering and business programs being eliminated at UBC Okanagan, cuts to CNC in Prince George. Last week it was SFU's seniors program. He says it's unacceptable. He says he's concerned, and he does nothing. So here's another example. We have a severe shortage of trained interpreters in B.C. and Canada.

Maybe the member opposite can remember that not too long ago his government issued a gilded state- ment, and one of the great goals, goal 3, was to build "the best system of support in Canada for persons with disabilities." Does the minister tacitly agree with the cancellation of this sign language training program? Does he think it costs too much? Or will th e minister finally step in and do his job and start savi ng these critical programs before they're gone forever? Hon. M. Coell: I don't know why the NDP dis- agreed when we doubled the number of doctors, but they did.

I don't know wh y the NDP disagreed when we've nearly doubled the number of nurses, and we're still focusing on nurses. We're focusing on skilled trades and training. We're focusing on graduates… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. [1415] Hon. M. Coell: …and they still vote against it every time. J. Kwan: Just last week Stats Canada reported find- ings about how large B.C.'s income gap is between Canadian-born and immigrant workers with the same skills — half the earnings, more likely to be unem- ployed and a growing number of skilled immigrants living in poverty. Why?

Because so many are unable to improve their English or get credentials recognized. VCC's cuts will cancel th e financial management pro- gram, a program that helps immigrants with accounting backgrounds learn workplace English competencies and Canadian accounting standards. Will the minister admit that his cuts are hurting the immigrant community, and will he commit today to restore the funding? Hon. M. Coell: As I said, there is a $68 million in- crease in the ministry's budget to our institutions. I'd like to ask the member why she voted against that. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. J.

Kwan: Well, I'd like the minister to actually an- swer the question. Dale Dorn , the VCC president, says they're faced with a $5.5 million budget shortfall. Here's another proposed program suspension that the minister might be proud of. The education and employment assessment program for women special- izes in working with marginalized women to give them basic literacy and skills training that they need to get access to the workforce.

Will the Minister of Advanced Education today stop denying that his cuts are actually hurting the community and eliminating valuable programs that are pertinent to the marginalized community and the immigrant community? Hon. M. Coell: Over the last few years we've added thousands upon thousands of new seats in the institu- tions in this province. Only the NDP could think that a $68 million increase is a cut. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. SEISMIC UPGRADES FOR SCHOOLS D.

Cubberley: Many parents in British Columbia recall the Premier's 2004 promise to launch a complete seismic upgrading of B.C. schools at high risk of collapse in an earthquake. There are 300 B.C. schools at high risk. They recall the Minister of Education's promise to fast- track the 80 highest-risk schools over three years. Three years have passed. Only a handful of the 80 schools have been dealt with, and all this minister can say to worried families is: "It's taking more time than we thought.

It's more difficu lt to do than I realized." The truth of the matter is that this government has simply not put its money where its mouth is.

12354 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 So my question to the minister: when will this government give seismic upgrading of schools for vul- nerable children the same priority that this government gives to making Olympic facilities happen and build- ing a convention centre? Hon. S. Bond: This government has put its money exactly where its mouth is with a $1.5 billion commit- ment to seismic projects. You know, it's really ironic that this member would even stand up and ask such a question.

Let's listen to this quote: "British Columbia's biggest stash of liquor is safe from an earthquake, but the gov- ernment says it doesn't have the money to reinforce a school just down the street. The liquor distribution centre on East Broadway was seismically upgraded shortly after a $2 million plan to upgrade Vancouver Technical School was cancelled." That's your record on seismic mitigation. [1420] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. The member for Saanich South has a supplemental. D.

Cubberley: Once ag ain, t he m inister pu ts m ore energy into changing the su bject than she does into going after the money to honour her promises. This is pathetic for a government that… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. D. Cubberley: …came into office and cut capital funding by 50 percent for schools in its first year and has never restored that funding. It's hypocritical to promise action and then do nothing. It's hypocritical to stand on a platform with parents and advocates and acknowledge the vulnerability of children and promise to fast-track action and then do nothing. This minister…. Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Member, just take your seat for a second. Members. Continue, Member. D. Cubberley: This minister knows the funding isn't in the equation to meet the government's com- mitment to seismically upgr ade these schools. So my question to the minister is this. Is this sheer incompe- tence, or is it outright hypocrisy, or is it a blend of both? Why did you lead families to believe you'd move fast when you weren't prepared to pay for it? Will you, in light of the tragedy in China, finally honour your promise and fast-track se ismic upgrades at B.C. schools? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. S. Bond: This is the first government in the history of British Columbia that has put together a seismic mitigation program, a 15-year plan, and $1.5 billion to accomplish it. Not only that, let's talk about the capital investment by this government. Since 2001 this government has invested over $3.1 billion in school infrastructure. Every member in this House is concerned about what happened in China, but I can assure you of this. We made a commitment.

We're moving for- ward with that, and by the end of this year, we will have almost a hundred schools that are in the position to be under construction meeting the commitment that we made. [End of question period.] Petitions D. Thorne: I'd like to present a petition to make a provincial ministry of racial awareness. "We the undersigned want a ministry that is aware of racial stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination. We want this because every day thousands of people are dis- criminated against because not enough is being done.

We want this ministry to create laws that will help stop racial discrimination, prejudice and stereotyping. We would a l s o l i k e t h i s m i n i s t r y t o m a k e p r o g r a m s a n d a d v e r t i s e - ments, especially against racism for schools." Mr. Speaker: I remind members just to read the title. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: I call continued second reading debate on Bill 27 and, in

Section A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, continued estimates debate on the Ministry of Children and Family Development. [1425] Second Reading of Bills LOCAL GOVERNMENT (GREEN COMMUNITIES) STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2008 (continued) S. Simpson: I'm pleased to be able to rejoin the debate in regard to Bill 27, the green communities bill. Yesterday I had the opportunity to talk a little bit about the role of local communities and to make some con- nection to concerns that I know have been raised by numbers of organizations in regard to Bill 27.

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12355 [S. Hammell in the chair.] What we know, of course, is that our local communi- ties, local governments, play an integral role in planning. They play an integral role in terms of dealing with issues that will be essential to dealing with questions of climate change, primarily looking at issues related to sprawl, to land use planning, to how they build compact complete communities.

Those are all initiatives that it's going to be essential for local governments to get on top of, to continue to improve in terms of best practices on, and those are issues that are going to have to be addressed by local government. We see, increasingly, many local govern- ments heading down that road. Vancouver has done some good work in that area, as have a number of other communities around the province which have very effectively looked at that, including places like Maple Ridge. As I noted yesterday, the planning process seems to work best at the local government level.

Local govern- ments have the staff that they commit to that. In fact, they engage communities ve ry directly, whether it's through outreach consultati on or through the public hearing process. Of course, as we know, local government is the one level of government that…. It's very accessible for the general public to be able to get at their mayors and councillors and be able to do the work to engage the mayors and councillors in terms of discussion around what it is that they're interested in advancing.

The problem here is that we may see the provincial government, through Bill 27, heading in a direction that I believe begins to not only download additional respon- sibilities onto local government to deal with climate change initiatives, begins to advance those initiatives related to the 2012 objective of carbon neutrality. There's no commitment, and we see nothing in this legislation that talks about resources being applied that support those communities in terms of doing that work.

There just aren't significant dollars to be able to do the work around beginning to do retrofits to improve infrastructure, to enhance the planning process for those communities that maybe aren't larger and don't have the same levels of resources that some of our big- ger communities do. So there's a great concern that this is a bill that will lead to additional downloads. There's also a concern I hear that it's a piece of legis- lation that leads to further edicts from the provincial government to local governments.

We know there is a great amount of concern about the download and the sort of direction and the re moval of powers from local government. We only have to reflect back to Bill 30, around pri- vate power projects, where the government took away the authority of regional districts and local govern- ments to plan and look after the interests of their own communities. They took that away, and they handed that power off to the Utilities Commission. That's raised great concerns.

We've seen it with other bills, like the streamlining act, that have — again on matters of controversy — taken away the authority of local government to look after the interests of their citizens. The other concern, of course, that we have seen around this — and it's a concern that is compelling because of the conduct of the government to date — is the issue of consultation and who this government talks to about their plans and initiatives. We have cer- tainly seen that as a challenge. We saw it again in terms of the lack of consultation that happens largely around private power projects with communities.

When there was disagreement and there was consultation, the gov- ernment used Bill 30 to rip up that authority. [1430] W e ' v e a l s o s e e n i t m o s t r e c e n t l y i n m a n y o f o u r rural and northern communities, of course, with the fuel tax. There we have seen community after community that we've talked to and municipal association after municipal association address this issue. What they continue to say isn't that they don't want to be a participant in getting at the challenge of climate change. What we don't hear them saying is that they don' t want to pay a fair share.

What we hear them saying is: "We want to be dealt in, in part of the discussion, and we want to be engaged in this process." O f c o u r s e , w h a t w e k n o w i s t h a t t h e y h a v e b e e n excluded in large part. They have not been part of this process and the discussions that now go on, as I under- stand that Mr. Whitmarsh has his PowerPoint out talking to some people…. Well, what I hear from those communi- ties is: "It's all good and fine, but it's a bit much to come and consult us after the fact.

We are looking to be engaged in these discussions before the decisions are made, and we're looking for decisions where we see our voices reflected in those decisions and made by government." But that isn't what's occu rring, and what has been a consistent problem throughout the whole climate change initiative — if I can call it an "initiative" — by t h e g o v e r n m e n t o v e r t h e l a s t 1 5 , 1 6 m o n t h s o r s o h a s been this incredible level of secrecy. So what this bill should be doing but what it's not doing.

This bill should be providing greater expertise for local governments to be able to deal with these challenges, but there is no as surances in this bill that that will, in fact, occur — that they will get the access to the resources for that expertise, whether those re- sources be provincial officials who can provide that insight or support to be able to contract externally to bring in advisers who can help them to develop some of those strategies that wi ll begin to deal with im- proved greenhouse gas emissi on reductions. But there are no assurances of that.

We should see in this bill a fundamental commit- ment to the issue of consultation and community en- gagement. That should be a guarantee in this bill that we will have consultation, that we will have community engagement that's meaningful and that that will involve all the players in the community who want to be part of the discussion about how to achieve the objectives that we all have. It's not about saying that the objectives change. The objectives are there. They're in place. That's not what's

12356 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 at debate. The debate is: how do we get to achieve those objectives? That is a legitimate thing to be con- sulting around, to be engaging communities around, to having a discussion around. There are no guarantees in this bill, at all, that we're going to see that.

Finally, certainly what we should see in this bill that we don't see here is the commitment of resources that will help to ensure that those communities that have been asked to be carbon-neutral by 2012, that are going to be asked, I believe, to carry the bulk of the responsibility for the climate change initiatives of this government…. There is no commitment that, in fact, resources will be provided to support those efforts. As we have heard to date , there certainly is no com- mitment to ensure that the additional costs that will inevitably come with that to local government…. That's to be expected.

There will be additional costs, but there's no commitment here from the government to ensure that those costs don't detrimentally impact on the delivery of legitimate and important services to British Columbians. We need an assurance that that will be the case, and the provincial government needs to step up and make those commitments and begin to look at the way that it helps to ensure that they are engaged. This bill should be about building the partnership between local government and the province on the issues of climate change and greenhouse gas emission reductions.

It should be about building that partner- ship, but I don't see the partnership in here. I don't see the partnership in here when it comes to the critical issues, to the core issues th at need to be addressed, because the bill doesn't talk to those issues. Sadly, on this one it appears more than likely that the government will be as silent on these ques- tions of consultation. I would hope the minister would stand up when she does get a chance to close debate on this and say that we're going to hear more about consultation, more about engagement.

I would h o pe th e m i n is t e r i s g o i n g t o d o t h a t w h e n s h e d o e s get her chance to close debate, but I don't know whether we're going to see that. We need to have the government stand up and say: "Yes, we're going to change our ways. We're go- ing to start talking to British Columbians. We're going to end the secrecy. We're going to start with local governments and local authorities, and we're going to start by opening up the door s in Bill 27." But Bill 27 today doesn't do that.

The silence, I'm afraid, will continue as we've had silence for over 16 months from this government on the question of engaging British Columbians in trying to find solutions around climate change. [1435] That's the reason I believe we're starting to see an increasing amount of concern by British Columbians about the government's initiatives here, and they're concerns that are problematic, because if we all want to achieve successful resolution in terms of British Co- lumbia's commitment, we can only do that if all British Columbians are part of that solution and part of that strategy.

Today the vast majority, everybody but 24 or 25 cabinet ministers and their staff, seem to be left out of this discussion, and that's not going to get us where we need to go. If this bill is supposed to complement cli- mate change initiatives that have been put forward by the government elsewhere, if it's supposed to help get us to those solutions, then it's got to deal people into that conversation. Local government is a great place to do that and deal them in. Sadly, this bill is quite lacking in that area. It raises concerns.

I look forward to committee stage, when we get the opportunity to discuss in more detail how the minister explains that and how the minister will open this process up. With that, I will take my place. J. Horgan: A s a l w a y s , i t ' s a p l e a s u r e t o r i s e i n m y place and represent the citizens of Malahat–Juan de Fuca speaking today on Bill 27, the Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act. Before I begin my remarks, I just have to commend the minister. I think she's the fourth minister to bring in a bracketed act that has the word "green" in it.

Just in case anyone is missing it at home, the government wants you to think they're being green, so much so that they're bracketing the word and putting it on the front of everything they pass out. I don't think there's anything wrong with good labelling, good branding, pretending to be doing something that you're really not. If that is the government's objective, I give them full marks for labelling all of their legislation so that, in case the backbenchers on the other side are curious, they'll know what they're standing up to vote for, because they certainly don't speak about the bills in this place.

That's the objective of the opposition, in most instances. In this case, I have just two things I want to focus on with the minister. I know she is very familiar with the regional growth strategy here in the capital region district as a former municipal official herself and re- sponsible for the Community Charter.

She'll know full well that the regional growth strategy here on southern Vancouver Island has been a hard-fought document with communities working together to come to some resolution about where gr owth will occur, where growth will not occur, what types of developments we want to see in and around the capital region. Nowhere in this region are these issues more important than they are in my community of Malahat– Juan de Fuca. Hon.

Speaker, you will know that I live in the city of Langford, th e fastest-growing city on southern Vancouver Island, where innovation is not something that the citizens there shy away from. In fact, they embrace innovation. Were it only an oppor- tunity for the member for Oak Bay to come to Langford periodically and to see that innovation on the ground, she wouldn't be forced to sa y such things as she did in debate yesterday. I j u s t w a n t t o r e a d j u s t o n e p a r a g r a p h f r o m h e r comments yesterday in starting off second reading.

The minister said as follows: "This is certainly what has been mentioned and connected to the 2007 and 2008 Speeches from the Throne as well as the Premier's

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12357 annual address to the UBCM convention, particularly last fall. As a government, we must rise to the chal- lenge before us, and we want to tackle these important issues head-on. But we know we cannot work in isola- tion." So that's the minister's objective, and who could argue with that? I know those that are watching at home or those very thoughtf ul people that are in the gallery, my family included, would say that that's a laudable goal and a laudable objective, and I certainly wouldn't want to dispute that.

But then I look at the reality of the past number of years in our community, particularly in Malahat–Juan de Fuca, and I have to take members back to that dark day in January of 2007 when the Minister of Forests, without any consultation — I am advised by the minister after canvassing this issue with her in estimates — with first nations in my community, without any consulta- tion with the capital regional district, arbitrarily made a decision to release 28,000 hectares of private land from tree farm licences on Vancouver Island.

Now, on the surface that seems like a trivial and insignificant thing, but when you put that action…. [1440] Hon. K. Falcon: I seek leave to introduce a group. Leave granted. Introductions by Members Hon. K. Falcon: I thank the member for Malahat– Juan de Fuca for ceding some time here. Madam Speaker and friends, I want to address the fact that we've got a visiti ng group from Cloverdale Catholic Elementary School in my riding who are visit- ing here today. I want to welcome them. It's a group of grade 5 students, 28 of them , along with their teacher Miss Doreen Brady.

I would ask the House to please make them welcome. J. Horgan: I thank the minister for that introduction of the kids in the gallery, and I hope they're enjoying the debate here today as well. I was speaking about the regional growth strategy and the decision by the Campbell government to…. I cede the floor to the member for Langley. M. Polak: I couldn't let this opportunity pass. I wanted to welcome the students here today and ac- knowledge that Cloverdale Catholic Elementary is my former elementary school. It's v e r y n i c e t o h a v e y o u here today. Debate Continued J.

Horgan: Again, my best wishes to the member for Langley, to the school group and to her alma mater. Where were we? Regional growth strategy, West- ern Forest Products, tree farm licences — a lot of acro- nyms. That's the RGS, the RFLs and the WFPs. All of that adds up to a classic and complete contradiction of what the objectives of Bill 27, the Local Government (Green Communities) Stat utes Amendment Act, is supposed to be all about.

The minister, upon introduc ing this bill this spring, would have known full well of the debate raging in my community about the prospect of urban sprawl, this expansive development all the way up and down the S t r a i t o f J u a n d e F u c a u n e n c u m b e r e d b y a n y r u l e s o r responsibilities. It's an unincorporated area. The minister responsible for unincorporated areas, you would have thought, might have been aware of this fact when the government made this decision.

She certainly would have been aware of this fact when she tabled a bill which she alleges is designed to reduce urban sprawl and to create what she called "compact communities." Now, what, hon. Speaker, in your opinion and in the opinion of those in this place, is a compact commu- nity exactly? What would that be? Would that be a community that's been emptied by job loss in the forest sector? Would that be Mackenzie? Would that be a compact community — getting smaller and smaller with each day of Liberal government as jobs are shed from the forest sector?

Or would it be a massive development on the west coast of Vancouver Island in and around Shirley, Otter Point and Jordan River where there is no infrastructure of any consequence? There's a two-lane road, a ribbon of highway that stretches along the beautiful wild west coast of Vancouver Island.

According to the government on that side of the House: "It makes good sense" — says the Forests Minister — "to release lands to developers that were tradition- ally used for resource extrac tion, for forestry, and that were contemplated in the regional growth strategy as no-go zones." There will not be development on these lands, be- cause they were resource lands. If you look at a map of southern Vancouver Island, it's pretty clear. We have the capital regional district water supply in the Sooke Hills. That area of land is off limits to development.

We have forest lands that have been harvested two and sometimes three times over the course of the past 100 years, regenerating for jobs in the future, regenerating for habitat, wildlife on southern Vancouver Island. But then we come to this Legislature where up is down, black is white, the bizarro world of British Co- lumbia where the government can say on one day it's okay to Western Forest Products to sell vast tracts of land that they put into a tree farm licence as part of the contract 50 years ago to protect and preserve forestry on Vancouver Island….

It's okay to throw that out the door, because we've got the Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act that's going to somehow protect us from urban sprawl on Vancouver Island. Unbelievable. This side of the mouth says: "Fill your boots, Western Forest Products." This side of your mouth says: "Oh, don't worry about us. We're green. We've bracketed it on all of our bills. It says so right there —

12358 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 ' g r e e n . ' C o u l d n ' t b e m o r e g r e e n i f w e t r i e d . W e even print it on our underwear when we get up in the morning." "We are the greenest government in the history of mankind," says the B.C. Liberal Party. Hogwash. Hogwash, I say. Absolute hogwash. Interjections. J. Horgan: How can the member for Shuswap actu- ally applaud the prospect of massive development up and down the west coast of Vancouver Island with no infrastructure? Volunteer fi refighters are now moving out of the community because the forest jobs are gone.

They're moving out of the community. There's no forest protection. There's no sewage protection. We're going to be burning greenhouse gases driving back and forth, back and forth. [1445] Interjections. J. Horgan: I often enjoy sparring with the member for Shuswap, and I'm just delighted that he's been able to join us here while my family is watching because we do exchange discussions over the dinner hour about how engaging and droll he sometimes can be. In any event, I'd like to ge t back to the substance of this bill.

I want to take the opportunity, because the Minister of Labour has a small part to play in this as well, and I'm glad I caught her attention on this issue. Some months ago an announcement was made by the head of the public service that the government was looking for some 300,000 square feet of office space that was going to be located in downtown Victoria. We're going to put more offices in downtown Victoria.

Well, local representatives of local government in my communities, in Langford and Metchosin and Col- wood and Highlands, sent a letter off to the government saying: "Why wouldn't you put office space where people live? Why wouldn't you try and reduce the commute?

Why wouldn't you take steps to reduce our impact through transportation on greenhouse gas emissions?" The response from the Minister of Labour, who I do hold in high regard, was: "We don't know where our employees live, so we can't track and monitor where they're coming from." Well, I'm a government em ployee standing in this place, and on my paycheque is my address. I'm fairly con- fident that with the IT, the information technology, capac- ity in the province of British Columbia…. I know it's not as simple as pushing a button, but it's pretty darn close. Let's find out where our employees live.

We wouldn't be violating any privacy issues. We send paycheques to people every day. Let's find out where they live. Let's see if we need 300,000 square feet of office space in downtown Victoria. Or would we be better served, would it be a more cooperative, more green approach, to look at the wh ole region and say: "Let's build some office space in Langford so that we're not commuting back and forth. Let's take our government employees and seat buildings where they live"? That makes sense to me. I know it makes sense to the Minis- ter of Labour, but unfortunately, we don't know where our employees live.

I, for one, live in Langford just down the road. I have to commute here every day, and I do it happily because this is the place where I work. But government employees that live in my community don't have to get on the bus every day or don't have to get into the Col- wood crawl and drive into this place. They could work in their communities if a progressive, thoughtful gov- ernment was truly green and wasn't just bracketing it and branding it as something that they think they are. Maybe if they tried to be green, we would have green policies rather than just greenwash.

Although I know that the Minister of Labour is listening intently, I'm hopeful that she will review the process and review the concept of building more office space in Victoria so more people can commute. Let's build it where people live so that we can reduce green- house gas emissions. If we're not going to do that, at a minimum, why don't we…? I'm a broken record on this, and I know the member from Oak Bay–Gordon Head has heard this more times than she cares to. I'm going to tell her anyway, because it's my opportunity.

As you know, I've got half an hour, plus or minus school visits, to say my views on behalf of the people in my constituency. What we want to see in Langford, Colwood, Metchosin, Sooke, Highlands, up the Malahat into Shawnigan and beyond, is commuter rail service on Vancouver Island. Why wouldn't we want to get peo- ple out of their cars and get them into a train? It's clean. It's green. It's efficient. Upgrading the railbed would have no impact whatsoever on the commute. The train tracks are already there. In fact, the train runs every day on Vancouver Island, and this will come as a surprise to many people.

It leaves Victoria at eight o'clock in the morning and goes north. It goes in the wrong direction. It goes north to Comox nearly empty every day and comes back at night nearly empty every day, rather than switching the service around and bringing commut ers into the city in the morning, getting them out of their cars and demonstrat- ing a true commitment to green technologies. We don't get that. We get brackets on bills: the Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act.

A lot of branding, a lot of talk, a lot of bluster, a lot of blow but not a lot of prog ress on issues that are im- portant to people in my community. Before I conclude my remarks, I want to thank the minister for bringing this fo rward.

Certainly, we want to at least hear the government talking about progres- sive policies and hear the government talking about green initiatives, but I impl ore both the Minister of Community Services and the minister responsible for the public service to genuinely sit down and think about: how do we work in the capital regional district? [1450] We have a regional growth strategy that says we're going to be developing in Langford and in Colwood.

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12359 Why wouldn't we take that opportunity and build of- fice space that can be filled by public servants so that they're not in their cars? Th ey can bike. They can walk. They can find other means of transportation. For those who must come to this place, into the downtown core, into the capital region, why not use the train? I don't think a day goes by since I was elected that someone doesn't come up to me and say: "Keep fight- ing for that train, Member.

Keep fighting for commuter rail on Vancouver Island." It makes sense now more than ever, I would argue, in a time of climate change. My friend from Victoria-Hillside talks about these issues all the time. Improving transportation in the southern part of Vancouver Island is absolutely vital to our economy. It's vital to our environment, and it seems to be only lip service from this government. This bill, bracketed as it may be, does very, very little to get us to the objectives that we all want to see here.

There's a group called the Communities for Com- muter Rail, and they meet in my area of Langford and also in View Royal. It contains members of local govern- ment. The minister will know them — members from the councils in Langford, View Royal, Colwood, the mayor of Sooke participates, and from Victoria and Esquimalt. All councils are represented on this committee. They meet monthly to advance the cause of commuter rail. Has anyone from the provincial government ever joined us at that table in two years? No. We've made presentations to government. We've advised the Minister of Transportation.

Certainly, the Minister of Community Services is aware of this committee. We work diligently every month to try and bring forward initiatives that will advance commuter rail and reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the capital region. But the province of Brit- ish Columbia is not at the table. The minister, in this legislation and in her remarks, said that she wants to be a leader in developing this con- sensus. As I take my seat, I invite her to come to the next meeting of the Communities for Commuter Rail. It's on the 21st of May. I'll drive out with her in her Smart car, if she wants to.

We might even take the bus, if that's okay with her. Or, if I can get shoes big enough…. She can maybe borrow the Minister of Finance's running shoes, and we can take a hike on the Galloping Goose Trail. If the minister wants to really get something done in this community, and I know she does, come to our committee meeting. Go to the Minister of Transporta- tion and say: "Let's get that train going now, not some- time in the future. Right now." D.

Thorne: Well, I can't really say that it's a pleasure for me to stand today, but I felt I couldn't let the moment pass without getting up and speaking on behalf of the residents in my community of Coquitlam-Maillardville and for the whole city of Coquitlam, which I know for a fact is reeling under the onslaught of the download- ing occurring over the past few years upon the cities and municipalities of our province. Bill 27, the Local Government (Green Communi- ties)…. My colleague has made me see those brackets like I never have seen them before. He's right.

Those brackets are everywhere, in fact, and I'm not going to miss a bracket again in my time in this House, I can assure you. The city of Coquitlam and other munici- palities across the province are reeling with the new responsibilities that are being downloaded. This has been going on for several years now. I think the first bill…. I was st ill on city council at that time. I think it was Bill 75.

I might be wrong on the title, but it was the first bill that basically really made city councils sit up and take notice of what was happen- ing in Victoria around not just the lack of consultation on what was going on but the fact that the downloading was occurring at the same ti me as their powers were being, perhaps, not necessarily taken away but eaten at around the edges. So these three things — the lack of consultation, the downloading of the costs and the inability to fight back, to have the power to make the final decisions….

This sort of axis of evil, you might say, coming from Victoria down to the municipalities has gotten to be quite a concern for the communities. [1455] I've noticed over the last few days that the members on the other side of the House keep…. When we speak or when we make a comment on this side of the House, even to articles in my local paper made by members from the other side of the House, the word "disingenu- ous" has come up again and again. I hadn't heard that before in this House.

So I would like to use that word myself today, because I feel this is another in a long line of bills that kind of fit very well under that description. When you talk about the province giving local gov- ernments the discretion to reduce or waive DCCs for developments, all kinds of developments — develop- ments designed for dense housing, for affordable housing, those with low environmental impacts and all of those kinds of new words, the sustainability words that we're all getting used to using, the green words, if you would, the bracketed green words…. I mean, it's wonderful w h e n y o u r e a d t h e m .

I f y o u d i d n ' t l o o k b e h i n d t h e words, you would think: "Well, this is great. This is very nice." But if you look behind the words, the financial burden that this has put onto the cities and the municipalities — or could put on if they ch oose to exercise their discre- tion — is a huge financial burden. The municipalities and cities are the least able to afford this kind of requirement. So to say that we're giving the province, that we're going to give the government the discretion to reduce or waive charges for any kind of development….

I think that's rather dising enuous, if I'm pronouncing that properly. It's not a word that, I have to say, I ever used in public before today. It's a word that I actually haven't heard in this House until the past few days. But I feel that that fits very well under there. My understanding, as a city councillor for many, many years, is that we always had that ability. If we wanted to waive DCCs, that was up to us. We could do that. So to suddenly be coming out and being, you

12360 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 know, kind to the municipalities, giving them the right to do this…. Really, what they're giving the municipali- ties the right to do is pay for all of this. The only way that municipalities get thei r funding is through taxes and charges, and DCCs and other development types of charges exist to provide funding for necessary infra- structure that must always be built to support new development. New development costs cities money. There's no doubt about it.

We did study after study to ensure that, because developers always say: "Well, this will be great for the city." Well, generally speaking, it's not great for the city financially. It doesn't pay for itself. You have to charge DCCs and other charges to developers in order to have water and sewer hookups, parks, schools, roads, intersections and all the inspections that have to be done when development is being done. Discretion to waive those charges….

All it means is that if you're going to put those services in — and by law, you have to; there certainly will be no new devel- opment if services aren't put in — you have to probably raise taxes in order to balance your budget. So that's terrific. That's where that word "disin- genuous" comes from. That's why I think it fits there. The provincial government ca n then wipe its hands of any mess that occurs in the community. Their taxes are being raised by the city councillors. The province has nothing to do with it. The province is behind it, though. Does that not fit under the meaning of that word?

On the one hand the prov ince is encouraging local governments to have density and environmentally friendly developments, but there's no help, no support to help accomplish any of th ose worthy goals. There's nobody here that isn't in favour of environmentally friendly developments. I'm sure there isn't a member on either side of the House that would stand up today and say: "I am opposed to environmentally friendly developments." [1500] Density. That's another one of those green words. Aren't we all in favour of density? I can tell you that city council of Coquitlam is in favour of all those things.

Their problem is that they just don't know where they're going to get the money to accomplish all those things and provide all the old, traditional, ex- pected services. Libraries. Don't we all expect libraries and fire halls? You know, roads are a given. But what about libraries and parks? They're not necessarily a given, are they? In the city of Coquitlam we could build out Burke Mountain totally with 20,000, 30,000 or 40,000 people over the next ten or 15 years expected in Burke Mountain, the second-largest development in the his- tory of British Columbia.

Yes, we have to have roads and intersections and the sch ools. We know there will be schools, and there'll be water and sewer as well. Most of that is already in. But libraries, parks…. We don't have to have those things. If we are expected in the cities and municipali- ties to pay for all these new green developments, then how will they do it without raising taxes? I did want to get up today and raise that point on behalf of other people in the city who can't get up and raise that point. The other thing I wanted to talk a little bit about was the lack of consultation in general.

Over the past few years, it seems to me, there is less and less consul- tation taking place on behalf of the province of British Columbia in general, but also — and specifically speak- ing to Bill 27 — with the municipalities. Several examples. My colleague — I always think of him as my colleague from the Malahat, but I know that isn't his proper title — talked about Bill 30 and the inde- pendent power projects as an example. I mentioned Bill 75. There are a few other bills that have come along, which really were a bit of a shock to the cities and mu- nicipalities over the past four or five years.

The recommendation that by the year 2012, cities would need to have carbon neutrality — where is the support for that? There's a huge cost to the cities and the school boards in trying to bring up standards so that they will have achieved carbon neutrality. They don't have the ability to access cash and money to fund these things the way the pr ovincial government does. They don't collect taxes to pay the costs of these kinds of programs. You know, the government calls it the carbon tax. We call it the gas tax, the fuel tax. Where was the con- sultation with communities around that?

That's going to be a huge burden on the community. Again, when I give it the first read, I look and think that this is an open bill, th at this is a transparent bill, that this is moving us in the right direction. But I know that's not true. It's moving us in the opposite direction — away from openness, transparency and more meaning- ful community consultation at a time when the opposite should be happening.

There are parts of Bill 27 that would certainly be recommended, were this bill to give a commitment to more openness, transparency and consultation before we brought in these kinds of bills and if we were truly trying to move, as my colleague mentioned, in an over- all green direction by the government rather than bits and pieces with certain minist ries moving along in this direction and certain others pulling them back. It's like the old adage: "Two steps fo rward and one step back." I feel that this bill is contributing to that movement, or lack of movement, and it really concerns me.

I will conclude my commen ts there. Thank you for letting me put out what I know are the feelings right now at the city of Coquitlam and in my riding. [1505] S. Fraser: I rise today to speak to Bill 27, the Local Government (Green Communities) Statutes Amendment Act, 2008. It sounds pretty good on the surface. Official community plans and regional growth strategies must contain greenhouse gas reduction targets. Mandatory exemptions to development cost charges are given to small, self-contained residential units, and local governments are given the discretion to waive or reduce DCCs.

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12361 Now, the first clue that there's a problem here…. They are sort of weasel words here — "given the dis- cretion." That usually is a key and a cue for download- ing — just downloading, offloading responsibility. Again, giving responsibility sounds good, but when there are no resources to go with it, that's just a form of downloading.

So we're looking at requirements under legislation that will make local governments be, in theory, carbon neutral by the year 2012 — again, I think it's a laud- able goal — and then giving them the discretion to cut their development cost charges — local governments. It won't be discretionary if under law, local govern- ments must be carbon neutral by 2012. What this means is they will be forced to reduce one of their basic forms of revenue stre ams to provide vital and essential infrastructure.

If the Liberal government had maybe asked some- body in local government or if any of the members opposite, the government members, who were in local government actually thought back to when they were a councillor, an alderman, a mayor or a regional district director, they'd realize: "Gee, this won't work." This particular bill was developed like many Lib- eral bills, most Liberal bills — in total isolation and without any consultation.

It's sort of a siloed approach, where it sounds good on its own — more responsibility to local government and the discretion to waive a basic income stream that is essential, which is made much more essential by the pattern of downloading of ser- vices and responsibilities onto local governments. We've seen this over and over again.

We've seen the gutting of the manufactured home park act that basically put a huge amount of pressure on local gov- ernments to try to fill that vacuum and address homelessness issues that would be created by this government's abandonment of those residents and people living in manufactured home parks. So we've seen a cost associated with that go to local governments — a downloading, if you will. We've seen costs around everything from septic inspections downloaded onto local governments. We've seen environmental inspections downloaded onto local governments.

We've seen changes in laws like the Pri- vate Managed Forest Land Act back in 2004, I believe it was, which basically took away the ability of local gov- ernments having any say over an industrial activity that could direly affect their community. Local gov- ernments have been given the dubious distinction of having to deal with the problems created by these things with absolutely no resources. Others too — I mean, no consultation around the implications for local governments around, say, the trade agreement with Albert a, TILMA, that was being debated by my colleague earlier today. The gas tax.

I don't know of any community, any mayor or any councillor that was ever consulted about a gas tax, which is punitive when you take into account that it is aimed at some and gives exemptions to some of the worst polluters and industry. Doing what's right, but downloading it onto communities and an abdica- tion of responsibility at th e provincial level by this government. [1510] We've seen it with independent power producers, the sellout of our rivers.

Again, local governments have to face the problems associated with that and, in some cases, have been removed from the process of having any ability to have a say over those projects, even though they may certainly affect the quality of life in the community but also other river uses that are inte- gral to the community. We've seen it with aquaculture. This government has again taken away the ability of local governments to have any say over whether an aquaculture initiative is to be brought forward ev en within their boundaries — and resort community status. I could go on and on and on.

This government has made an art form of download- ing problems and challenges onto local governments without any consultation, removing the ability of local governments to even have a say in a lot of initiatives when they are directly affected and are given no resources to deal with that, because local governments can't just invoke taxation. There's nothing allowed under law for mayors and councils to do that.

If mayors and councils and regional districts are made responsible for being carbon neutral by 2012 and the means they're given to do that is the ability to cut their revenue and remove their development cost charges, that will make it more difficult to accomplish many of the basic infrastructure projects and needs that communities require. Again, how does Bill 27 actually work on the ground? It may come as a surprise to the government members, but there are municipal associations — like on Vancouver Island, I re present Alberni-Qualicum, west coast, Pacific Rim.

The mayors and councils from Port Alberni, Qualicum Beach, the regional districts in the area, Tofino, Ucluelet, all of these communities…. They all go to a convention as such, and they do resolu- tions that reflect the needs and the will of the commu- nities. It's very grass-roots, and it's a very important thing. What they do is tr y to bring these resolutions forward to the provincial government.

So I'd suggest to government members that they could go to these conventions and maybe listen to what is required and needed from the grass roots, from the community level, and then maybe use that in their decision-making. That would be wisdom — I would call that — but we don't see any wisdom here. I'm being somewhat cynica l in my statements, but these government members and ministers are not lis- tening. They ignore resolutions.

They ignore dire warn- ings from local governments to back off and allow a consultation on things like TILMA, like the gas tax, on run-of-the-river projects — on the whole range of issues that I suggested earlier. Then there's the Union of B.C. Municipalities. That's a compilation of all the regional associations. They get together with these resolutions, and then they bring forward sort of an umbrella for the whole prov-

12362 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES T UESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 ince — municipal resolutions that address the dire needs of communities. In some cases they oppose government, whichever government is in power, and in some cases they will applaud government decisions. What we're seeing, though, is a complete ignoring of the needs of local governments. I've been a mayor. I was the mayor of Tofino from 1996 to 1999. I know the challenges that go along with running a local government. The challenges since then have quadrupled, have increased geometrically because of this government's ignoring of local government needs.

The provincial government, the B.C. Liberals, listen to those that pay them, and they ignore local governments. Any government that ignores the grass roots, the mayors and councillors and regional district directors of this province will do so at their peril. The problem is that's a political peril. The problem is that damage is done. [1515] If we're seeing communities being forced to reduce DCCs to meet emission targ ets set arbitrarily by this government without any consultation, that's a problem. Reducing emissions is something that I think we can all agree we need to do.

You will hear that from mayors, from councillors and from regional district directors. But how you do it must be in an inclusive way, and that simply hasn't happened. This is like the gas tax. There has been no consulta- tion. There has been no thin king out of the box from this Liberal government as to what the fallout of these decisions will be to local mayors and councils and ultimately to the people of British Columbia. I'm a big fan of local governments. Local govern- ments, I think, in many ways represent one of the best forms of democracy.

Mayors and councils can't go in and get a quart of milk in less than an hour or two. It takes a long time because the issues are on the ground. The wisdom and advice gained from local officials is invaluable for any government to make an informed decision, but that has been ignored by this government. They have slapped local governments in the face — figuratively, if not literally. Bill 27 is the siloed approach. The idea, the goal of reducing greenhouse gases or emissions, is certainly laudable. It's the process — how this bill came to be — that is flawed. It is consistent with Liberal policy, mind you.

A Liberal government does not listen to local gov- ernments. They do not even pay attention to resolu- tions that come out of government associations or local governments. They sort of foist legislation onto mayors and councils and regional districts without any consul- tation whatsoever. A recipe for failure, yes. A recipe for disaster, quite probably. If we're looking at green initiatives — and this is supposed to address environmental concerns — how siloed is that?

When you look at government policy that has removed 120,000 hectares so far, since 2003, from the tree farm licences just on Vancouver Island and at the same time brought in

an act that allows much lower environmental standards, all at the request of industry friends of this government, and allowed the wholesale liquidation of the forests and the export of that fibre, those trees, to other jurisdictions and took local governments out of the picture with that act…. It was

section 21 or 23 — I don't recall now — that specifically removed local government's ability to have any say over those lands if it affected the bottom line of the companies involved, the companies that have con- tributed greatly to the B.C. Li beral Party. Now, this is a problem. So you're going to try to reduce emissions? Great. If you wipe out all the green stuff, it's all irrelevant. You can't do these things in isolation.

You're going to download the costs of trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to local governments and remove the ability, in some cases, for them to collect development cost charges to do that. It is counterproductive. At the same time you've taken away the ability of local govern- ments to have any say over the removal of the green stuff, if you will — the plant life on this planet, the trees that produce our atmosphere.

You can reduce carbon emissions all you want, but if you simultaneously wipe out all the green stuff for short-term gain of political friends and cronies at the expense of communities, it's all for naught. Although the bill has some merit on the surface, in some ways this bill is a greenwash. [1520] It is pretending that the B.C. Liberals are actually green when they've actually created laws to wipe out the forest base on Vancouver Island, on the coast, and become major shareholders in the companies that are doing that after they created them. That's a big prob- lem. We know that has led to another court case.

The new relationship is at stake. There are many things here that are linked to this green bill, and "green" is in brackets. I wonder if it should have been in quota- tion marks. It might have been more appropriate. There are other concerns I have with the bill, and it's the result of the process. A bill brought in, like all bills from the Liberals, is in isolation. It's a siloed approach.

So while they're bringing in a bill with no consultation that deals with trade laws with our neighbouring province of Alberta — TILMA — without any consultation, we're seeing that this bill being brought in hasn't even taken into account the potential for conflict with their TILMA bill.

Article 6(1) in TILMA says: "A party may adopt or maintain a measure that is inconsistent with Articles 3, 4 or 5…provided that the party can demonstrate that…(

b) the measure is not more restrictive to trade, investment, or labour mobility…." Bill 27, in how it's administered or attempted to be administered with no resources given by local gov- ernments, could be challenged under TILMA, the trade agreement. Now, that's simply bad management. You've got a government that has a left hand and a right hand that have no links. There is no communica- tion from one bill to another, from one ministry to an- other. That drafting of legislation in isolation and in the vacuum of this government, without any consultation with local governments, is a recipe for disaster, and all British Columbians will suffer for that.

TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2008 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 12363 Again, referring to

article 6 in TILMA: "Anything innovative that local governments want to do on cli- mate change will be vulnerable to challenge under TILMA." Unlike the Premier's climate change plan, local governments don't have the resources to create a whole secretariat. Local governments are fighting to deal with the massive download that this government has already foisted on them over the last seven years. Local governments won't have the ability and don't have the ability to hire a secretariat or hire experts. They're going to have reduce d revenue streams if they cut their development cost charges.

The folly of this legislation, Bill 27, is completely consistent with the folly of just about every bill this government brings in. In closing, this bill does not complement any other climate change initiative. This bill, I think, should have required government to consult with local governments, to listen to resolutions that come out of municipal associa- tions or the Union of B.C.

Municipalities — fundamental involvement of all levels of government in an attempt to address needed environmental changes. [1525] If this government believes they can do things like Bill 27 in isolation, in a vacuum, siloed without any consultation and ignoring the local government offi- cials that have the wisdom from the grass roots, then they are simply failing as a government. It is essential for governments to be inclusive and bring in legislation that can work. They can't do th at if they do it in isola- tion. On that note, I shall end my chat today. G.

Robertson: I rise to echo many of the comments of my colleagues here on the opposition side in our general support for the intentions and aspirations in Bill 27, the Local Government Statutes Amendment Act. However, it is importan t that we express our real concerns with many of the elements in Bill 27 that have real problems. I'll start on the positive side with some acknowledg- ment that it is good to see the directive in this bill that OCPs, official community pl ans, and regional growth strategies must contain greenhouse gas reduction targets.

W e n e e d t o b e r e d u c i n g our greenhouse gas emissions dramatically across the provin ce, and it's crucial that that happen at a community scale which over two-thirds of emissions are connected to. So it's positive to see that here within the bill. The general guidelines attributed to that through this bill, as well, are important in that they encourage local government in setting these targets and achieving these goals.

Right away as we get into the details of this bill and the directives — specifically on local govern- ment without assistance, without support, without resources to help these local governments implement and achieve the targets — we see real challenges with the viability of the bill and its intentions. We have a real challenge here, as my colleagues have stated, around the downloading that is imposed again on municipal governments by this bill. We have continually raised issues here around the development cost charges. These will only exacerbate the fiscal imbalance that we see for local government.

Local government does not have the resources to address the critical need to reduce carbon footprint and greenhouse gas emissions. By pulling away the development cost charges from local governments, it will only make things worse in many situations as local governments are starved out. Clearly they're unable to escape the costs associated with development and those costs that are typically covered by DCCs. However, with DCCs being exempted or excluded from local government revenue, that means a shortage of funding. One has to wonder what the purpose is.

There's a noble intention in ensuring that development is greener and that there is a provision for smaller, self-contained residential housing units. However, if all of these good intentions conflict with the ability for local government to actually implement an d survive on the scrawny budgets that only property taxes and the charges and levies which they are empowered to collect provide, then we're going to have problems down the road here. We're not going to achieve the targets that have been set and that by this bill are being imposed on local gov- ernments. [1530] We have a number of other conflicts here.

My col- leagues have mentioned — and I will add my voice — the concern around TILMA an d the challenges that we will undoubtedly see with TILMA and in particular

article 6, the legitimate objectives in the Trade, Invest- ment and Labour Mobility Agreement with Alberta. Again, TILMA has the potential to get in the way of actions taken by local governments to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. It is conceivable that a company from Alberta could come into B.C. and claim that a municipality and its rules are restrictive to trade or investment and are designed to favour local companies, specifically because they, in doing so, will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So we've got a significant conflict arising here be- tween forcing local governments

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0513pm 04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0513pm 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	915675cc9c06dfc91d2c9ae2855e3c91b29174a5

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).