Volume XL Wednesday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Third Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Patrick McNicholas Number 4 4 March 1987 ·

The House met at 3:00p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Statements by Ministers DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker,· I am pleased to advise this hon. House that the Province has arranged a Canadian dollar bond issue in the amount of · $75 million in the European capital market. The bonds which will be dated April 8, 1987 hav1:1 a term of twenty years and carry an annual coupon of 9. 5 per cent for the first eight years, with the interest rate to be reset at the option of the Province in 1995 and 2001.

In addition, the bonds rnay be rE!deemE!d at the option of the Province or . the bond-holder after eight and fourteen years. The bonds are priced at 101.5 per cent of their principal amount to yield 9.02 per cent on a semi-annual basis. This issue will complete the Province 1 s borrowing programme for the 1986 - 1987 fiscal year.

The borrowing was arranged by the ProvinCE! 1 s European fiscal agents, Credit Commercial de France and Dominion Securities Incorporated with underwriting positions being taken by · various banks from Britian, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland, the United States, France, and Canada. I am also pleas1:!d to advise that the issue was . well received throughout the European investment community. L172 March 4, 19 8 7 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Leader of thE! Opposition . MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, · we thank thE!

MinistE!r of Finance. for that information. I confess I do wonder whether that was the administrative detail that had to be cleared up in ordE!r to pay the vocational school instructors. Is this where the money is corning from, and is l:his why these instructors have been waiting for their pay, unt:il Lhc:­ Province rushed out and managed to raise some additional money? AN HON .. MEMBER: Sit down, boy, sit down. misleading again. MR. SPEAKER : Order, 'please! MR. BARRY: You arE! Mr. Speaker, there would not be any mislE!ading of the HouSE! if lAJE! had full information supplied. WhE!n we haVE! thE!

PrE!ITiiE!ln of this Province getting up and saying one day that the Pro ·vinCE! is bankrupt. in two years, and l:he n1:!xt day is saying no, the Province is not going to be bankrupt in tlAJO years, who is misleading whom? MR . SPEAKER: Order, please! I would ask the han. confi~e hi~ remarks Ministerial Statement. MR. BARin: member to to the Mr. Speaker, I relevant to the think bond it :i.s VE!ry mark10! ts, and No. 4 R172

the ability of the Province to raise money in the bond markets, that the Premier of this Province be responsible in the statements that he mal<t:!S with respect to the credit position of the Province and ·l:he financial position of the Province. I think that is very relevant, and we intend to pursue that, Mr. Speaker, the direct relevancy. Perhaps that is why the Premier backed water like a squid within a matter of two days.

Perhaps the Minister of Finance called the Premier 'in and toJ.d him that this money was being raised in the capital markets of the world and that it could have cost us, and probably did cost us, an extra half per cent or 1 per cent. How do we know, how wiJ.J. we ever know w h a 1: the i n t e r e s t r a t e mig h t h a v. e been if the Premier of tbis Province had not come o'ut in such an irresponsible fashion and said that this Province was going bankrupt in two years? I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I would want an extra h.alf per cent or 1 per cent on any money I loaned the Province after a statement like that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FENWICK: Mr. Spt?.aker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. Ml~. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Just: two minor points on it. The FinanCE! Minister (Dr. Collins) indicated that $75 million was the final borrowing of the Province . . We ask two questions on t:hat, or Ll73 March 4, 1987 Vol XL ask him if he could provide the information at a later date? One, what was. the total borrowing of the Province in the last fiscal year and could he give us some indication of how much furthE!r in debt we have gone l:his year?

And the second question is, is it on target, is it what we anticipal-:t:'d at the beginning of the fiscal year, or have we had to borrow mar~ than we anticipated? 000 MR. SPEAKER: Before calling OraJ. QUE!Stions, if I rnay, I would l:ike l:o tAJe-lcolnt~ l:.o the visitors1 galJ.ery fifteen Grade Xll studt?.nts with l:ht:!ir l::lAJo teachers Wade Pryor and EJ.lison Newport from St?.al Cove Integra l:.ed Schoo~ in Fortune Bay. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Ht:1ar, hear! Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the rnember fo1n Gander. MR. BAKER: Mr. Speake~. a question fo~ the Minister of-· Finance.

Will .thE! minister inform this House whether any SpE!Cial War1nants haVE! bE!E!n issued during the last six or sevel'1 days? DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. there werE! s OlliE! Special Warrants issued before the No. 4 R173

House opened. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BAKER: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Gander . MR. BAKER: Would the minister please inform this House as to when the House of Assembly is going to be informed of the substance of these warrants and the reasons for which they were issued? Wh•O! n is that going to be tabled in the House? DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. -SOME HON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Dl~. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, thE!re is a statutory requirement in regard to tabling warJ"ants and, of course, that wilJ. be' followed. MR.

BAKEl~: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Gander . Ml~. BAKER: Do I unqerstand the Finance Minister to say that these warrants were issued for new program 'rne s or were th•:J y for ongoing programmes for money that tJJas under-allocal':1;!d in hts budg1:!t of last year? L174 March 4, 1987 Vol XL DR•. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, when thE! warrants are tabled, which wi11 b1?. in the requirE!d period of time, ali tha-t will be clt?.ar. MR. BAKER : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Ml~. SPEAKER: The . han. the member for Gander. MR.

BAKER: ThE! ministE!r rE!aliZE:1S, of coursE!, that he has fifl:een days in which to tablE! the!m. Is the issuing of these warrants, I would 1ike to ·ask thE! FinanCE! MinistE!r, thE! result of a 5 per cent cut in fixed salary expenditures that hE! made last year in his budget in an attempt to make hirnse•lf look good at this particular tirne last year? In othE!l" words, is this thE! result of his cooking the books of this Province? DR. COLLINS': Mr. Sp1?.aker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS: Mr.

SpeakE!r, that is one of thosE! 'When did you stop beating your wife' questions, which I do not intend to answer. MR. TULK : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the ~ember for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for No. 4 R174

the Minister of Labour (Mr. Blanchard). and it concerns the Workers' Compensation Board in the Province. Mr. Speaker. every member,. as the minister is aware. can list numerous grievances with the Workers' Compensation Board, appeals to the Ombudsman aJ,d so on. But to illustrate to the minister I would like to perhaps table this brief. that came to us from a lady on the West Coast of the Province, which illustrates quite well the problems that we have been having with Workers' Compensation. She submitted it, I believe, to my colleague, the member for Stephenville (Mr. Aylward) .

In spite of the fact that last June, eight or nine months ago, legislation was passed in this . Legislature outlining the creation of an independent Appeals Tribunal for those people wh~ feel, obviously •. like this lady feels in this brief she has submitted h~re, it is rny understanding that this tribunal is not yet opE!rating. Could the _minister tell us why this is the case? Does thE! minister realize the tragic, personal and financial burden of those people, who, since last June, have not had the benE!fi t of this Appeals Tribunal? Does he realize the suffering that those people are undergoing? MR.

BLANCHAIW: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Labour. MR. BLANCHARD: Mr. SpE!aker. Bill No. 39, which was an amendment to the Workers I Compensation Act, was brought in in the Spring of 1986 and was proclaimed into effect on 16 February 198'7. the day on which L175 March 4. 19 8 7 Vol XL the new Workers' Compensation Board of Directors were appointed. The question of the Appeals Tribunal, Mr. Speaker. is being addressed and has been add res sed ever s .i. n c e the b t 11 tAla s passed. There were a number of administrative matters, Mr. Speaker, to be taken care of.

These have been pretty well cleared up at this particular time and I am hoping to be able to announce the people who will comprise the Appeals Tribunal hopefully - I hesitate to giVE! an exact time I Mr. Speaker - wi l:hin the next ten days or so. MR. TULK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. the han . the member for Fogo. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker I in a number of public statements the minister made one on January 11 -and a no th[01~ on January 301 he had the:~ samE! hope:~. that he was going to be· able to make the announcements then.

I believe in a letter to l:hE• rnernber for Stephenville, my colleagUE!, he s tate d he was going to be a b h! l: o make those announcements within a week. If the negotiations are going on, will the mintstE!r narnE! us an exact date as to t..vhen those appointments will be made, when the whole thing will be put in place? Will ·he also tell . us perhaps how much it is going . to cost the people of this Province - if he has any idea at all how much it is going to cost the peoplE! of this Province - to pay for certain · patronage appointments that was made by the former administration and this· administration? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour . No. 4 R175

MR. BLANCHARD: Mr. Speaker, again the han. member is asking - a multi-faceted question, I guess, two or three questions rolled into one. I made statements toward the end of January about the_appointment of a board. That has been accomplished within the time frame, Mr. Speaker, that I quoted at that particular time. I have just told him that ~here were certain administrative matters l:hat had to be taken care of before the board could be put into place. The same goes for the Appeals Tribunal, Mr . Speaker .

Up until February 16 the two commissioners, whose job it was to conduct hearings on appeals against decisions of the Commission were on staff. There will - inevitably be a short period of adjustml':!nt, but no claimant wi 11 1 o s e , M r . Speaker . He as k s what will i-t cost the people of the Province here. Any cost or any problems to any claimant will be addressed, becauSE! when thE! nE!W tribunal is appointed and put into place it will look at current cases and they will be looked at retroactively up to some point, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary. MR. TULK: Mr.

Speaker, retroactively is a very good word to be used by that government, but I would remind thE:1 minister that t~ere are people who have been suffering, numerous cases are do~umented here in this brief by one person since last June and it is not good enough to say matters will be resolved at so1ne point in l:he future. Let me ask him again to give us, and to give the working people of this L176 March 4, 19 8 7 Uol ·XL -~~- ·:_·.:..:~ .

Province, the people who have been injured in labour related jobs in this Province, a specific date, which is long past due, as to when this legislation will become E!ffective in the form of an Appeals Tribunal. Let me again ask him how much will it cost to pay off the patronage appointments, that were made by the Moores 1 Administration and by thE! Peckford Administrat_ion, of those people to the commission? Let mE:1 ask him this qUE!Stion: Is there any truth that it 1nay cost us well over $500,000? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. l:he Minist1:!r of Labour. MR . BLANCHARD: Well, Mr.

Speaker, thE! han. gentleman is well aware of the 'fact that there arE! processes to be followed in all legislation with respect to appointments. I ~annat give the hon. · member an exact hour of any exact day of any week. I have already sa.id, Mr. SpeakE!r, that within thE! nE!Xt. tE!n days or -so. I hope to have the Appeals Tribunal put into place. With respect: to his question, Mr.

Speaker, dealing with the severance package For commissioners, I rE!gard that as a personal matter respecting two people who have done no wrong, whose jobs, bi?.CaUSE! of reorganization of the commission ai1d a ptece of legislation, have become redundant, and thE!Y have to be taken care of. I am not prepar1?.d at this momE!nt, Mr. Speaker, to respond to that mal:ter because it affects the lives of a couple of people who, as I say, have donE! no wrong. Th1:! answer to that, Mr. SpE!aker, wil1 come out in due c6urse. MR. CALLAN: No. 4 R176

Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKE-R: The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker,. I have a quest-ion for the Premier. The Council of Trades Unions, Mr. Speaker, have said to the Premier, you led us to believe in a private meeting in early June of 186 that all other related work, specif-ically the offshore platforms or work related to it, but also Come By Chance would operate with union labour, and you reiterated t:h-is when you appeared at the founding convention. Mr.

Speak1?.r, outs -.ide the LE!gisJaturE! a couple of days ago, the Premier indicated thal: he did not have anything to say about Corne By Chance. MR-. SPEAKER: Order, please! Would the hon. member please pose hi,s question? MR. CALLAN: I am going to ask the Premier th-.is, Mr. Speaker: Is it implicit in thE! admission that he did not talk about union labour for Corne By ChanCE! that he did talk about union labou~ for other projects, and is thE! Premier still purs~ing that same goal? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I am very much so. Ml~. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Bellevue. L177 March 4, 1987 Vol XL -::.·: .. ·:..;~· MR. CALLAN: At the founding convention of the Provincial Council of Labour, the Premier, Mr. Speaker, said that he pledg1:!d support to the Council of Trade Unions and he also said, 11My door will be open to you.11 LE!l 1ne ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker, is his door still open and wh1?.n do1?.S he plan to meet with these people? They have been waiting now for months, I understand. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the

preamble to thE! han. mt::1mber1s question is completE!ly erronE!OUS. There haVE! bE!en meetings establish1:!d t..uith the CabinE!t cornmittE!e, and thE! council has met with the Cabinet committee and had a full briefing. BE!CauSE! this information is co1n'ing out~. in dribs and drabs I have no alternative, even thought I am breaking thE! confidence of onE! of the members of t:he counci.l, exCE!pt to say I have met t..uith thE! President of the Council of Labour on two occasions myself, in my office, and I am comrnil:t1:!d l:o hav1:! a pE!rrnanent liaison w:i.th that council in place .

I t is n OtJJ in place and the ministers responsible have met tAr.ith l:he council, and thE!Y haVE! prE!SE!ntE!d a detailed brief to the government which we are examining and we will be having ongoing, permanent liaison with that organization. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for BelleVUE!. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker~ the answer to a question No. 4 Prennier, a couple in of R177

da~s ago from the Opposition House Leader (Mr. Tulk), said that he would be responding to the Harris Report in due course. We know, of course, the recommendations containe!d in that report. Now, in the Throne Speech of a few days ago, last week, the Premier says, 1 My government feels that the current balance of protection of private rights and union rights in the labour legislation of this Province is fair and equitable. 1 Ml~. SPEAKER : Order, please! That is the second supplementary. There is no need for a

preamble before a supplementary such as that. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, how does the Pre!mier rationalize what was said in the Throne Speech a~d what the Premier plans to do with the Harris Report? Is he going to amend the legislation when he says in the Throne Speech he is not going to and, if he does not ame~d the legislation, how can he! go along with the re~ommendations of the Harris Re!port? MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I gUE!SS the hon. me!mber will see the answer to that when we give our response to the Harris Report, Mr. Speaker. MR. W. CARTER : Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. t:he member For Twillingate. MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the L1 '7 8 March 4, 1987 Vol XL Minister o~ Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) and it concerns a meeting that is planned for London on this weekend between France and Canada to discuss the St. Pierre a~d Miquelon boundary. I wonder if the rninsiter could tell the House if Newfoundland will be represented at that meeting? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if the meeting, in fact, takes place Newfoundland will be represented at the meeting. MR . W. CARTER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, the member for Twillingate. hon. t:he MR. W. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, mind telling would the be strategy will representatives? PREMIER PECKFORD: the minister House what USt:!d . by our Do y o u want u s to t e 11 Fran c e our' strate!gy? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEA'KER: Order, please! M R . W . C'A R T E R : No, no. Will l:hr.:dr presence, Mr. Speaker, at the me!E!ti'ng be! interpreted as approving of the so-called Canada/France agreement or. are ·they going to be the!rt::~ l:o demand that that agreement be! scrapped? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . No. 4 R178

MR. RIDEOUT: If, in fact, there is a meeting in London on the weekend, Mr. Speaker, the topic of discussion will be related to thE! compromis on referring the boundary to arbitration. On that question or others I do not intend at this time to send public signals on what our strategy will be. MR. GILBEIH: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Burgeo - Bay d1Espoir. MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of FisheriE!S as well. Will the minister confirm that his department, in conjunction with the Department of Social .Services: is constructing fish cages here in St.

John • s for the aquacul tu.re project in Bay d1Espoir? MR. SPEAKER: The hori. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I know there was some discussion on that project. I do not know if actual construction may haVE! been approVE!d, but I am certainly prepar•~d to take the question under advisement and find out for the han. gentleman. MR. GILBERT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, member for Burgee MR. GILBERT: the hon. the Bay d1Espoir. I would like to table this documr::~nt, first of all, a letter from a constituent of mine in Bay d1Espoir. He sends a picture.

He Ll79 March 4, 19 8 7 Vol XL says, 1 This is the cage - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. GILBERT: Well, I will table it, and I will ask a supplementary. Is the minister aware that there are prE!Sently bedng constructE!d in Bay d 1 Espoir, under a Job Strat:E!9Y Programme funded by the federal government, fish cages for this project? With 90 per CE!nt. unemployment in Bay d1Espciir there is no doubt that the necessary labour is available there. Also lumber for the cagE!S available th•?.re. So I ask the rn-in:ister, again, why his department is involv•=>.d with those cag•?.s nol: being built in Bay d1Espoir? MR.

SPEAKERi The han. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, if it is a Canadian Job Strategy study, I have no indication what may or may not. bE! constructed in any community around Newfoundland under the Canadian Job. St. ra teg y p rog ran111H~. I indicated to thE! han. ge•ntlE!man that I know there was some discussion with us and · Social Services on that kind of proj E!Ct before. That is strictly a provincial matter. I und1=>.rtook l:o find out for him and 1 e t hi rn k now as·soon as I have the information. MR. GILBERT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker·. MR.

SPEA~ER: A supplementary, the hon. the member for Burgeo-Bay d1Espoir. MR. GILBEIH: This question is The Premier is No. 4 to thE! PrE!ITiier. aware that the R179

.. ~: ·:·!-:~. Newfoundland and Labrador Rural Development Council presented a brief to government in December which stated, 1 The combination of political 1 - MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! Would the hon . member please put his question? MR. GILBERT: I am asking the qUE!Stion, Mr. Speaker. 1 The combination of political apathy and bureaucratic aloofness has seriously handicapped the efforts . of development in rural Newfoundland . 1 MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! I think it is pretty well established that certainly for a second supplementary ·it is not necessary to have . a long

preamble. I would ask the hon. member to pose his question. MR. GILBERT :. Mr. Speaker, in that case, does the Premier agree that l:his would be a· typical example of the political apathy and bureaucratic aloofness that the Rural Development Council was talking about in December? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, we are VE!ry proud of the fact that when we decided to build a salmon hatchery to get into aquaculture in t:he Province, we decided to build it in Bay d 1 Espoir. How many million dollars have we spent so far on it? MR. RIDEOUT: Two million.

L180 March 4, 1987 Vol XL PREMIER PECKFORD : We have spent $2 million in Bay d 1 Espoir, a lot of money, Mr. Speaker, to develop a very sophisticated salmon hatchery, which is working out very, very well, to bret?.d the salmon to a srnol t size and then thE:1y can bE! sold to farmers and so on in t:he area.

We are intent on developing not oniy a salmon hatchery in Bay d 1 Espoir but also to get into commercial productions so that individuals in Bay d 1 Espoir can buy the smolt and St?.t: LIP salmon farms and get into legi tirnatE! aquaculture activities so that. . we can help, through aquaculture, to eliminate somt~ of the unt:!lllployrnE!Ilt problems in Bay d 1 Espoir. Now there w~re a lot of other areas of the Province that were vying for this salmon hatchery l:o have the first commercia~ production of salmon in the Province _through aquaculture, Mr. Speaker, but we - MR. FLIGHT: And National Sea got it.

PREMIER PECKFORD: Would the hon. Windsor-Buchans be am finishing the question? MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. BARRY: member for quiet while I answer to th~ A short question, a short answer. PREMIER PECKFORD: We deliberately went to Bay d 1 Espoir, deliberately spent the $2 million thE!re, had Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro co-operate with the Rural Developme!nt Association, and now we are at the stagt:! where No. 4 R180

~~:. ·:_ .. .:.:~. we are trying to put together the commercial application of aquaculture in the Province. We haue the hatchery, now we want to get l:he smolts to a certain size and then to put it out to the community at large so that we have commercial production of salmon through aquaculture. That is a commitment that we have made to Bay d'Espoir and ·we intend to keep it. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader _ of the Opposition. Ml~. BARI~Y: Mr. Speaker, the Premier is just missing the whole~ approach to rural development. It is obviously a waste of - MR. MATTHEWS: You know a lot about it.

MR. TOBIN: How wouJ.d you know anything about it? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BARRY: Mr. SpE!aker, whE!n you control the members on the other side I would like to ask a question. I would like to ·address a question to the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth (Mr. Matthews) or the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young), whichever minister would like to respond to 'it. The Torbay Rec CentrE' was av.ailable to rE,sidents of Bell Island in previous years Ll8~ March 4, 1 9 8 7 Vol XL when the ferry could not operate because of ice conditions.

As you know, the Bell Island ferry has already been immobilized on a number of occasions because of ice, and it looks as though it is going to be a. hard Spr-.ing as far as ice is concerned. We have commuters who haVE! no choice but to commute back and forth to work in order to make a living, and many of them are' making very louJ wages . I h c-1 v e w r :i. t l: <?. n l:. he dE!partmE,nts on this prE,viously, so I ask the rnin-.is-t:er is thc:,re anything at all that can bE! done to provide al ternatc?. accommodation?

We realize it is not the minister's fault l:hat l::he young offenders were moved inlo l:he Torbay ltc?.c Centre, but·: is there anything at all that can ·b(! done in terms of providing accommodation to thE! residents of Bell Island who are stranded because of ice in the Tickle? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! .hon. the MinistE'r of CulturE,-, Recreation and Youth. MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question.

As he so rightfully said, we do have the young offenders · now accommodatE'd in the hostE!l at Torbay which before notAl we usr::!d to provide to residents of Bell Island when we had problE!IllS L-ui l:h ice. The situation that we had, Mr.Speaker, was a crisis situation at that t:ime whc?.n the young offenders had to be accornrnodatE!d. Public Works and other departments were inuolued to try and find a place to moue the young off<?.ndE•rs to and thE! logical place to move• them, I gue.~s, looking at t:he kind No. 4 R181

of facility that young offenders, guess both is necessary for happened to be, I fortunately and unfortunat~ly, the Torbay hostel . . I understand the Leader of the Opposition, as welL Mr. Speaker, has been talking to · the deputy minister on one occasion when I was out of town. We have difficulty in finding another building that would be suitable to accommodate the people from Bell Island.

I think in the conversation with the Leader of the Opposition the deputy minister told him that if there · was some way WE! could identify a building we could utilize we would be more than glad to do it, but as of today we have not been successful in finding another building that would be suitable to accommodate those people. MR. BARRY: Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Leader of the Opposition . MR. BARI~Y: Mr. Speaker, there are poss.ibilities. I have not had a chance to establish whether i~ fact some of these are suitab1e, but th~y may not even be gover·nment buildings.

For example, I understand that maybe the Portugal Cove Town Council has an area · which might possibly be mad1?. available, but again, of course, there would have to be some form of" supervision or security in terms of accessing the building. ~s the minister prepared to look at something along those lines in terms of assisting Bell Island commuters, probably only For a month or a month and a half? The expense would not continue for a lengthy Ll82 March · 4-, 19 8 7 Vol XL period.

But even if it were a non-government building, is it possible to put some form of emergency assistance in- place, a temporary hostel, whether it be for Bell Island commuters or. other commuters who, as we Sl:?.e from l::lrne to time because of the blockage of the highway and so forth, become stranded, commuters who were moving back and forth to work? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. MATTHEWS : Mr. Speaker, as MinistE!r of Culture, Recreation and You l:h I guess I have to be blunt and honest with the han. the LeadE!r oF the Opposition, bE!CaUSE!

I do not really think that it ·is my responsibility to try and find accommodations for people · that happen to be s·tranded in St. John 1 s, whether they came fr·om Grand Bank or Bell Island or wherever. In the past we have been very accommodating with ~he hostel, but l:hE! situa ·tion now is that we really do not have an alternative to the hostel in which to accommodate them. Of course, once we get inl:o a non---governlm!nt building, then you arE! asking us for supervision and what not, and then you are gE!tting into a situation where we really do not have supervisory personnel to provide.

Of course, if we did tha~ we are also talking about costs that we do not have providE!d for in our . budget. MR. BARRY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon . the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: No. 4- R182

Mr. Speaker, I realize the minister does not have ·responsibility directly for this, but in light of the fact that the accommodation was provided through the minister's department, I ask would he would have a request put out to the dep~ty ministers or ministers of other departments with a view to determining whether in fact some sort of programme might be put in place? Sp,?.cifically, I ask the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Dawe), as another Form of relief, whether in fact thE! minister's department is prepared -to look at some· form of subsidy for the travel costs which these commuters are running into to get back and forth by helicopter? I understand one airline is apparently charging $20 one way, $40 return, and the other airline, I understand, is charging a little less than that. Is the minister prepared to look at a possible subsidy to the commuters in terms of getting back and forth when the ferry is blocked by ice? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation. MR. DAWE: Mr. Speaker, as thE!

Leader of the Opposition has indicated, it is not an unusual situation in this ·Province, whether people are travelling by air, by ferry vessel, or in fact, by road, at this particular time of the year to be stranded either _going to or coming from work, or to be stranded from their home and so on. Where we have been able to assist, -certainly we have done so. There arE! areas of the Province where this particular situation is a regular occurrE!nce and the distances are · rather large, particularly as it relates to air fare subsidies to the L183 March 4, 1987 Uol XL various islands around the Province.

We have, in fact, assisted where there is no regular service in place, and so on. The fact of the matter ~ith regard to Bell Island is that they are in close proximity to a number of air services, not only helicopters, but I understand that somE! of thE! private airlines are operating a shuttle service to and from the Island. It has not be,?.n thE! practice, of course, to gE!t involved in that kind of a subsidy where there are services that can be provided commercially.

We have bE!en involved in subsidies in areas of the Province where air SE!rvice would not bE! a · l~egular' occurrence or a private operator would not normally do it unless govermm:~nt steppc:!d in tAli {:h some sort of nominal assistance. This is the procedure we have been following. Certainly we -address it on an as required basis. We are looking at the situation, not only· on Bell Island but in othar areas, on an ongoing basis. ~3hou1d l:.he si tuaticin change or circumstanCE!S go beyond the normal, we t..~.d.ll certainly look at it.

But it is a difficult situation to address from a general perspective or make a broad statement of principle that we will assist or that we will subsidize. We look at all thE!Se si t.uations on an individual basis and address them as such. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, M1~. SpE!aker. My question is to the M-.inistE!l~ of Social Services. It concerns th(~ establishment of the Young No. 4 . Rl83

~ Offenders Rev ie w Board, which he announced something like four o 1 clock last Friday. He indicated it was set up in accordance with

Section 30 of The Young Of fe nders Ac t. Having had a look at The Young Of fen ders Act, it is quite clear th at the establishment of thi s board is optional on behalf of the Province. In che ·cking around we now find that the work is pres entl y done by provincial court judges in this Province. In fact, in nine of the ten provinc es that we have been able to check on it is also done by provincial court judges.

My question to the ministe r is this: Is it then clear that this is an entirely optional board an d that the work can cont in ue to be done by the prov inc ia l court judges, and I assume by Family Court, rather than setting up what is another court, in essence, to handle these matters? MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the Minister of Social Q .• ~erv1ces. MR. BI~ETT: Mr. Speaker, I take some pride in the fact that we are the first Province to set up a rE!View board of this nature. ,SOME HON. MEMB~J~S : Hear, hE!ar! MR . BRETT : Mr .

Speak er, I realize that the cases can be . reviewed by the provinc ial court , but ·that is only done after a one year period . In our opin ion the new Review Board will be able to review cases after a si x month per io d. Hopefu ll y the board, once it gets work in g, will be able to assist us in takin g some of the juveniles we hav e in our ov ercrowded ·· ~system out and Ll84 March 4, 1987 Vol XL back into the community . MR. FENWICK: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: han. the My supplementary is to the Minister of Justice (Ms Verge).

Since her department is now currently handling the re views, would she con firm to me that in fact last year that there were only eleuen cases like this heard in St. John 1 s and, since most of the facilities that take young offendets are in the St . John's . area or Whitbourne, !:hat that is likely to be the entire number of cas es that were heard last ye ar? Would she further indicate that the ·Prov in cial Court or the Family Court or ~he cour t that is dealing with these offenders will ~e laying off a clerk in the next couple of months?

And would she further ihdicate whether or not this money, $65,000 an d the trappings that go with it, could have been be tt er used to put to gether a Un ifie d Family Court in Corner Brook, which is someth in g tha t the prov incial government ha s been committed to For years but has always said tha t it does not have the money for? And would she not adm it that abolishing this boar d and allowing it to be done by the pr esent court system is a much mo re efficient use of our resources? MS VERGE; Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Justice . MS VERGE: I will take the first couple of No. 4 Rl84

questions in the series of questions posed by the member for Menihek as notice and get the statistical data for him within the next couple of days. As to the question about staff of the Provincial Court in St. John's, I can inform the member that at the instigation of the Chief Judge and the Associated Chief Judge of the Provincial Court, one temporary worker has been reassigned from the Youth Court to the Traffic Court. As I said that change was instigated by l:he Chief Judge and -the Associate Chief Judge without reference-to me or the executive members of the Department of Justice. MR. SIMMONS: Mr. Speaker.

MR. FENWICK: A final supplementary. Ml~. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the member for Fortune Hermitage. MR. FENWICK: I would like to raise a point. of privilege, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of privilege, the hon.. the member for Menihek .· MR. FENWICK: My point of privilege, Mr. Spe1aker, is that in the1 pre1vious several days since this new session st.artE!d there has been a practice by "Your Honour to recognize a question from a member and generally two supplementaries. In the last three quest-.ions that I have asb.'!d you have always cut me off at only one supplementary.

I asked Your Honour to check the record just to ensure that that is the case and L185 March 4, 1987 Vol XL to make sure that inadvertently perhaps he may not be giving me the same treatment as he is giving to other members of the Opposition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I would draw hon. m.:~mber • s attention to our Standing Order 30, and in particular SE!ction (f): 11The Speaker 1 s rulings relating to oral questions are not debatable or subject to appeal. •• The hon. the memb1?.r For FortunE! HE!rmi tage. MR. CALLAN: And you will be punished in future. MR.

POWER: You wi 11 .g e t three ·s 1 a p s o n e a c h hand: MR. CALLAN: And you will not gE!l on t:h(~ CBC tonight. MR. SIMMONS: I think we have struck a cord here somewhere. PREMIER PECKFORD: Take up your fight with CBC. MR. SIMMONS: I have a question for the Minister of Development and ToUJnism (Ml". Barrett) but I am prepared to wait until this wit passes, as I am sure it is a momentary thing.

A question for the Minister of Development and Tourism, who is responsible for the imp1ernentatio_n and administration of thE! conflict of inter1:1st regu1ations insofar as employeE!S of · his depar'tmE:~nt ar'E! concerned. Those regulations make No. 4 Rl85

particular provision for situations where a conflict of interest might occur between employees 1 personal interests and their duties as public servants, including, for example, thE! rnattE!r of investment and management of private assets of employees, and it is that particular matter to which I have to direct the minister 1 s attention. The minister might want to take my question under advisement before answering if he is not familiar with the case to which I am alluding. I do not want to mention names in the House but I am prE!pared to do so to him privately. Here is my question on the matter in principle.

Can the minister assure the House that all senior publ ic servants in his portfolio have met the conflict of inter est requirements relating in particular ·to the holding and management of private assets? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Development and Tourism. MR. BARRETT : Mr . Speaker, I CE!rtainly will haVE! to take under advisement the question as to whether a senior official in the d1:!partment has, in fact, breached the conflict of interest guidelines. I can only inform the House a~d the member opposite that senior officials of the department are certainly aware of 't:he guidelines.

I·t is always di ffi cult to stand up and bE! able to categorically say at any given point in time that every single person is rigidly adhering to them. One would hope that they are, but if t.he member has specific information that would suggest otherwise, then I think it would be incumbent upon him to let me have that information and I will be very pleased to Ll86 Ma r·c h 4-, 19 8 7 Vol XL investigate it forthwith. MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Question has elapsed.

I would like to welcome to the galleries a delegation from the Town Counctl of Greenspond, in the district of Bonavista North, as follows: The Mayor, Mr. Jim Duffett, Councillor Andy Burry, and Town Manager Mr. Derrick Bragg. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees MR. SPEAKER: Pursuant to

Section 29 of the Parliamentary Commissioner (Ombudsman) Act, I am pleasE!d to say I have received the Eleventh A~nual Rep~rt of the Parliamentary Commissioner For the calendar YE!ar 1 9 8 5 . I 1 a y· i t · o n t hE! tab 1 e of tile House. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. tile Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS : Mr. Speaker, members opposite, especially my good froit:!nd from Gander (Mr.

Baker), will bE! glad to know tilat I want to table copies of twenty-six special warranl:s a new record ·, ft"om Executive Council, Finance, Environment, Development, Tourism, Fisheries, Forest Resources and Lands, . Mines and Energy, Transportation, Career Development, Culture, Recreation and Youth, Justice and Social No. 4- Rl86

Services. MR. BARRY: That is why the opened before. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speake!r. MR. SPEAKER: ·House was not The hon. · the PrE!Side!nt of the Treasury Board. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table the report for the Newfoundland and Labrador Computer Services Limited for the fiscal year 1985-86. Notices of Motion MR. R. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon: the Agricultural Deve!loptne!nt. MR. R. AYLWARD: Minister and of Rural, North€~ rn Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitlt?.d, "An Act To Amend The Newfoundland Veterinary M·e d i c a 1 Act, 19 7 1 . " · DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave t.o introduce a L187 March 4-, 19 8 7 Vol XL bill entitled, The Conflict 1973.11 MR. DOYLE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: "An Act To Of Interest Amend Act, The! hon. the Minister of Municipal. Affairs. MR.

DOYLE: I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduCE! a b i 11 en tit 1 e d , 11 An A c t To Arne n d The Municipalities Act. 11 MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I wilJ on tomorrow a~k leave to introduce a bill E!ntitled, 11

An Act To Amend The Unirnprovt:!d Lands Redistr:i,bution Act. 11 MR. SP~AKER (McNicholas~_: This is Private Mernbt:!rS 1 Day, .~nd the first motion to bE! dE!batE!d is in the name. of the hon. tht=:! Lt:=!ad<:~r of the Opposition. The hon. the Leader of thE! Opposition. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, it is very appropriate that ·the second 1WHEREAS1 clause in this resolution refe!rs to 11 the E!Conomic situation in Newfoundland and Labrador and the financial position of l:he Province11 b1c~cause, from thE! arm load of Special Warrants which we just saw brought No. 4-R187

into this House by the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins), we see the sort of games that are being played by the present administration to try to keep this Province afloat . We have an administ~ation which deliberately delayed the opening of the House, Mr. Speaker, and then had t~ go out and obtain Special Warrants. The Financial Administration Act sets out when Special Warrants are obtainable.

It is when the amount appropriated by the Legislature is insufficient for a continuing service, when the amount that has been budgeted for a continuing service is insufficient to meet the requirements of that service during the year, or wht?.n the · Leg i s l at u r e i s· not i n s e s s ion , it is for any expenditure not foreseen and not providE!d for by the . Legislature in respect of a new service. Well, W~ wiJ.l bE! scrutinizing -t:.hese Spec".ial Warrants, and I· hope to have a look at them myself in a moment before I complete my speech. I think I have them he1~e :i.n front of me now, Mr. Speaker.

What has happened before and what the Minister of Finane(.;! is trying to get away with again is a deliberate cooking of the books when he brings down his budget. He budgets under the amount that: he nE!eds in order to try and give a good picture to the Province when he brings down his budget. He cooks the books. Indications are,· Mr. Speaker, that the reason the vocational instructors were not paid on time was because there had been an arbitrary 5 per cr:mt reduction in the vote for that particular department, that particular subhead, last year when the budget was being prepared.

Departmental L188 March 4-, 1987 Vol XL officials told the Minister of Finance· that the amount calculated was ·too low. The ·Minister of Finance went ahead regardless of that and cut 5 per cent, and then b.r o u g h t i t i n , M r . S pea k e 1~ , aft E! r the fact by Special Warrants. The Minister of Finance is in breach of the Financial Administration Act by going for Special Warrants when the matters are matters that could havt':! bE!E!I1 foreSE!E!n. Mr. Speaker, we will take a look at, for example, some of reasons for which these Special Warrants w~re obtained: Offshore Negotiations, Professional Services.

Now there i.s absolutely no way I am sure when thE! budget tJJa s being prepared last year l: hat:. the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) could have conb?.lnpla ted that · there would have to be offshore negotiations. No, absolutely no qUE!Stion! The dE!aJ. was put together with Mobil, Hibernia was going flat out. There were thousands of people unemployed, working on that Hibernia pro j e c t , .a b so 1 u t e 1 y no need for any further negotiations. Obviously it is a matter, Mr. Speaker, that could not be foreseen. That: we would haue to negotiate in ordE!r to ge~t the offshore going, no, obvtously not. Mr ..

Speaker, these matters arE! going to be brought to the attention of the Auditor General and we may have to bring th~ '!lll t:o the attention of ·the Newfoundland Constabulary, they are such a flagrant breech of The Financial ,Adrni ni s tra tion Act. Let us look at another one here. There is all sorts of goodies. It is going t:o take days for ·us, Mr. No. 4- Rl88

Speaker, to sift through these Special Warrants. Let us look at another one. We have Industrial Operations, Grants and Subsidi€s in the Department of Development and Tourism. We have Financial Servtces - salaries for a particular subhead, salaries for employees in the Depar-tment of Development. Obviously it was totally impossible to foresee the people in the Department of Development will be doing any work. MR. TULK: Probably a Tory buddy. MR. BARRY: Obviously the minister could see that the Province was replete with development and there was no need of any further dE1velopment in thE! Province.

There were too many jobs . Two jobs for every man, woman and -child in the Province. No n~ed to pay the salaries of people down in the Department of Development, 1 a waste ·of time, 1 said the minister when he prepared his budget last year. Now 1 et us look at another one. What else do we have here? What other sorts of goodies? We have one going to the Department of Fisheries, $1 million for Market Development, Grants and· Studies. Well obviously it could not be foreseen that we needed to develop markets for our fish when the budget was being prepared.

Obviously there is no problem with selling every species of fish that you could catch· off the shores of Newfoundland and Labrador. No, Mr. SpE1aker, there was absolutely no need to foresee that we would have to spend money on market development in the Department of Fisheries. MR. TULK : L189 March 4, 19 8 7 Vol XL It is paying for all of his trips. MR. BARRY: Yes, I wonder if it had anything to do with his trips. MR. TULK: All his Iceland. MR.

BARRY: trips to Norway and Oh, here is anothE1r unusual one: Labrador Fish Plants, Salaries, nobody would have foreseen that they would open any fish plants in Labrador again this year to buy a few fish from people in Labrador. MR. FUREY: Sure they gave Labrador cod. MR. BARRY: atAJay all l:.he Yes, maybe it is because they were giving away the Labrador cod so they figured they would not need to put any money in the budget for that item. Now here is one that is a shadE! legitimate I suppose, ForE1st Fin1s Suppression, . okay, that is an example I tAJould say, Mr.

Spe1akE1r, of an unforeseen eventually. rhe Minister of Forestry (Mr. Simms) has skated by on that particular Special Warrant. We accept that this is an example of l:he typo of thing for which a SpE!cial Warr'ant: is justified. But, Mr. Speaker, on the earlier i terns that I referred to, how ludtcrous il: is for the Minister of Finance to try and get up - and he is going to have to when .the Estimates come in or when the debate on the budg·~ ·t starts, he is going to have to explain to the people of thts Province and to this HousE! why hE! is ignoring, once again, the Financial Administration Act.

Let us see what else we have No. 4 Rl89

here. We have the Hope Brook gold mine, Grants ·and SubsidiE!S. Well, again, you know, I think it was well known that that mine was to be going ahead. There is $500,000 there that is going to be spent. That is something that could have been foreseen and properly budgeted for last year. Mr. Speaker, there are some good ones here like the St. Brendan's ferry service, the vessel Green . Bay Trans port, Special Payment of Legal Fees in connection with that one. That is going to be one that will be deserving of a few questions. Mr. SpeakE!r, hE!re is an interesting one: Highway Maintenance and Repairs.

Obv-.iously they knew that they would not have to repair or maintain any highways last year, Mr. Speaker. That is one that was completely unforeseen when they were doing up their budget, definitely.· They .could not have foreseen that there might be a few potholes dev .elop· or that · the. highway would get thrown up or that the highway would get undermined through flooding. No! That t-~.Ja s be y o rid . 1: he fore s i g h t of the Minister of Finance and his colleagues opposite. Mr.

Speaker, I think before I completely lose my breakfast and my lunch I had better leave this for a latE!r timE:1, because we have such - Ho, ho! Look what we have hE!re, .Mr. Speaker! We have found something here.· Look at this onE!: Salaries, Fisher Te·chnical College; Salaries, Bell Island Vocational School; Salaries, Burin Vocational School; Salaries, Carbonear . Vocational School; Salaries, Clarenville Vocational School; Salaries, Conception Bay South Vocational School; Salaries, L190 March 4, 1987 Vol XL St.

Anthony Vocational School; Salaries, Grand Falls Vocational School; Baie Verte; Port aux Basques; Happy Valley; Placentia; Springdale; Bohavista: $2,950,000. Now, Mr . Speaker, I am s u r e it uJa s o b v to us {:hat thE! y would not have to pay tWE!lVE! months salaries to employees of these vocational schools. There is absolutely no way they could ha.ve foreseen this . This is dated February 1.2, 1987 that l:hE• application was made for · this Special Warrant. Mr.

Speaker, I wonder why '.is it: that the Premier, apart from thE! fact that he under-budge b:!d, apart frorn thE! fact he cooked thE! books, and ·the proof '.is herE!, why was '.it that they did not call the HouSE! of Assembly into session? Why was it, as of February 12, they k nE!W they would need additional money and they would not E!ngage in thE! democratic process of calling the House of Assembly into SE!Ssion to debate whether or not these funds should be approved for the minister to expend? Mr .

Speaker, I thtnk we br::d :.l:e r g1C!l: a copy of this and gE!t it brought up to the Pl"ess and identify t.h1:! minor administrative detail, Mr. Speaker, {:hat delay1?.d l:he payment of salaries to ·vocational school instructors. This is the way, Mr. SpE!akE!r, in which the MinistE!r of Finance carrtes on his budgeting. Just look at the explanation of the minister .. He says on February 12, "It is urgen{:ly necessaJ"Y l:o incur expenditure to the sum of $2,950,000 to provide additional funds for anticipated salary and student aid expenditures.

A Special Warrant is required to meet expenditures for which insufficie!nt legislative provision has been made. No cost -shared No. 4 R190

countervailing savings are available within the head of the expenditure of this depar-tment. 11 Now, 11 insufficient legislative provision has been made11 is what the mE!TnbE!r for Gander (Mr. Baker) was referring to when he said the Ministe!r of Finance (Dr. J. Collins) cooked the books. He manipulated the figures in his budget last year to try and cut down the deficit. To try,. Mr. Speaker, to make the budget look better, he put in artificial figures not based upon reality and, Mr. Speaker, that is irresponsible and a sign of incompetence. MR. J. CARTER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! ·A point of order, ti'Je han. l:he member for St. John1s North. MR. J. CARTER: We all distinctly heard the ~eader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) accuse l:he Minister of Finance of manipulating his budget last year. Now that is equivalent to saying that an han. member is dish ones t . I wo u 1 d suggest that that is not parliamentary and that the Leader oF the Opposition should withdraw that statement without any equivocation. MR. TULK: It is probably the truth. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order, the hon. the leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: No, Mr.

Speaker, I am not going to waste time with that. Ll91 March 4-, 1987 Vol XL MR. J. CARTER: Could we have a ruling, Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. The han. the Leadt:!r of Opposition. MR. SIMMS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point or Minister of Lands. MR. SIMMS: order, Fort~s-l: thE! hon. Resources Mr. l:hE! thE! and Before the Leader of the Opposition gets up l:o continue. r arn enjoying thE!

LE!adE!r of thE• Opposition1s remarks but For the sake of precedE!n_ts in this HouSE! on Private Members 1 Day it has been abundantly clear in the past that a member speaking in Proival:1~ Members 1 Day is spE!aking to a resolution. Mr. Speab:•r, l:he resolution that the han. the • Leader of the Opposition has placed before the House -and I quite seroious about thois -has nothing to do with Special Warrants or anythoing ~~lst~. i"l(! is asking for something particularly to be rr:!solved. Ml~. BARRY: HE! is cutting in·lo my timE!, Mr. Speaker. MR. SIMMS: No I am. not, Mr. Speaker. raising a legitimate MR.

FLIGHT: No, you are not. MR. SIMMS: If the members shouting - ~0. 4- want l:o I arn ke1:!p R191

MR. FLIGHT: It is a· spurious points of order . You are killing time from the ·Leader of the Opposition and you know it. MR. SIMMS: Whenever they are ready, Mr . Speaker, I will continue. MR . SPEAKER: Silence, please. The hon. i:he Minister of Resources and Lands. MR. SIMMS : Mr ..

Speaker, it is a "legitimate point of order in my opinion and I raise it seriously because otherwise, in the future, reference could be made to this particular debate today and it could be pointed out that what the Leader of the Opposition has said for .the last ten or twelve minui:es has absolutely nothing to do with the resolution that is on the Order Paper. Therefore, a serious and dangerous precedent, in my opinion, would have been set. I would like Your Honour to consider that matter and rule· on it.

I do not care if the Leader of the Opposition goes on for another ten or twelve minutes on it or ten or five or five or ten whatever he has got left, but it is an important matter that thE! Chair, I think, should take under adViSE!ITIE!nt. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of order I would ask the Leader of ·the Opposition to please stick with the substance of the re!solution. ThE! hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: I would love to, Mr . Speaker, and L192 March 4-, 1987 Vol XL -- ·-· _....., .... . - continue on discussing Special Warrants and showing how they relate to - you know they really do, Mr.

Speaker - relate to the financial position of thE! ProvincE! as referred . to !:he second

WHEREAS of my resolution. I would 1oVE! to, Mr. Speaker, go on pursuant: to Your Honour•s request and instruction, I wou1d lov c;! to continue going through these Special Warrants item by item but, dE!Spite· how rnuch I l~i.ke to accommodate You1n Honour, I just do not have time to continue. I have other points I would like to make . I will however refer to a few more before I go on to my other reHnar k s. Mr.

Spe!aker, what we haVE! herE! is the best example - the timing could not have bE!en be!tte!r if it. had been planned - the b~si: example of the financial incompetence · and mismanagement and , i n· fa c t , d .up 1 i c i t y , the cooking of . the books by t:.his · administration to cover up their mismanagement and inco111pei:ence. Mr. Speaker, that is th~ whole essence of this resolution. MR. J. CARTER : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : A point of ord er, the han . l:he member for St . John's North. MR . J. CARTER: What happened to the suggestion made earlier that the Ministe,r of Fin .ance (Dr.

Collins) u.Jas lE!SS than straightforward in presenting his report and now he is being accused of cooking the! - books? Now, if it is a free for a11, if we may say anything at all, I am all for that, I would suppor{: that, Mr. Speaker. If we might get up and just let: her rip, I would not mind, I could accept No. 4- Rl92

that, in fact, I could join in quite enthus ias ti c.ally. But if we are going to have proper behaviour here, then we cannot accuse each other of underhand dealings. Now, which is it to be? I think, Mr. Speaker, it is high time that a clear ruling was made by Your Honour. MR. SPEAKER: To that point state once more point of order. The han. the Opposition. MR. BARRY: of order I will that the,re is no Leader of the rhe member opposite is cutting into my time, wanting to take away time from this debate because they cannot stand the heat, Mr. Speaker.

They know what we are saying is correct, that members opposite have completely mismanaged the finances of· this Province and the best example you can get is this arm load of Special Warrants which we will total up shortly to see the extent of their mis-management. But to see the Minister of Finance coming in with that arm load of Special Warrants shows better than anything else how incompetent he is as a Minister of Finance in preparing a budget where he under budgets to this extent. It s haws the mismanagement of the funds of this Province by the current Premier and his administration.

It underlines the point ·that I make in this resolution, Mr. Speaker, that l.llhE!n the Premier seeks $150 million from the Governme,nt of Canada, as he said is needed, in order to avoid financial collapse, in order to avoid a 1930s type ·financial disaster -that was his wordi-ng - then, Mr. Speaker, we should keep in mind that we ne,ed· to have a Ll93 March 4, 198'7 Vol XL good state of federal/provincial relations. We net::~d to Premier who is speaking with our representative in the federal Cabinet, whatever the party stripe ..

When the Premier gets up and says it is something that establishes how much he cares for Newfoundland and Labrador that he is preparE!d to fight with a Cabinet minisb?.r or a CabinE!t of his own politica1 stripe, you know, Mr. Speaker, il: only underlines that the Premier of this Province is prepared to fight with anybody on any issue at any time in order to try and savE:~ his own political skin. That is the bottom line, Mr. Speaker. There ar·e a lot of members' of 'l:he Premier's own party who are coming to that conclusion and a large number of those, Mr.

Speaker, have indicated that they are not all tha-t happy, they arE! not very happy at all with the PrE!miE!r of this ·Province attacking the federal wing of his party in that fashion because' thE!Y can see, even 'wi·thin l:he party, that il: is merely to try and salva~e the Premier's political skin in this ProvinCE!. That is what is pJ~oven, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER·: Order, please! The hon. member's time is up. MR. BARRY: Thank you. I will, by leave, minutes to wind up am sure members give me . a few my remarks. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No leave. MR. BARRY: I am getting a little too close to the bone. No. 4 R193

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I really am happy to get up and speak to this resolution that was put on the Order Paper in the name of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Barry) . I find it extremely strange that the Leader of the Opposition could somehow misconstrue the intention of this Administration whE!n we take issue with the Federal Govc:lrnmen t of Canada over a question of the federal government secretly giving away fish to France, and somehow construe that to mean -that we arc:! trying to save our own political skin.

Mr. Speaker, how can any true-blooded Newfoundlander not stand up and be counted when at ·the •samE! time as you lose 10,000 rnetric tons of fish to your own people, you see a secret cornrnitmc;:!nt given to a foreign nation for additional amounts of tha ·t same cod stock? And the best the Leader of the Opposition can do is say we are· out: to save our own political skins . Mr. Speaker, I think it is shameful f~r the Leader of the Opposition to use those kinds of motives on any government, of any political stripe. I mean, we remember very clearly, Mr.

Speaker, and the Leader of the Opposition must be embarrassed to tears, how his own party over there kowtowed down to the Liberal Government on the restructuring agreement, how they were willing to see Burin closed, Grand Bank L194 March 4, 198'7 Vol XL closed, Harbour Breton closed, Gaultois closed; they said not one word on the other side when the fishery of the South Coast was going down the drain; how they tried to step on both sides of the fence in federal/provincial relationships over the offshore; how all they did was attack us we are driving investment away when we were trying to get the best deal for the Province.

How can thE! Leader of thE! Opposi t:Lon in conscience, forgetting the partisanship and all the rE!St of it, in conscience to Newfoundland and Labrador stand in his place and accuse us of only trying to save our political skins while fish are being bartE!rt~d away to a forElign nation, Mr. Speaker? I do not understand it. I cannot understand how a man of the Leader of the Opposition 1 s stat~re can stand up there and articulate those 1ow motives on anybody 1 not only me but anybody, any pE!rson on this side of the House, or another political party, the Socialists, or whatever.

How can he do it in trUE! consciE!nce? What alternative did any Newfoundlander have in whatever political position they were in, Opposition, governm~nt or whateVE!r? How could WE! takE! any other position than the one we took, I would ask the LeadE!r of the Opposition . As I understand it, the Liberal Party of Newfoundland are out supporting our position that this was a bad deal for Newfoundland, the Socialists are out supporting our position that this was a bad dE!al for Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, and that is a11 the Leader of the Opposition can say.

Here we WE!rE!, able to stand up an be counted and get a good restructuring agreernE!nt so Burin becomes a model fish . plant in the whole world, whe!n it. No. 4- R194

is finished. When the modernization of Burin is finished, which is underway now, it will be {:he most. modern fish plant in the world. It will be into secondary processing, which we fought for. WE! have had more resolutions on the Order Paper here over the last ten or fifteen years as it relates to secondary processing -why are we selling our raw fish away and letting somebody else get ths jobs in secondary processing? And nmJJ we have a model plant in Burin doing that. We fought for that because it was legitimate and right to fight for that, Mr.

Speaker, in the same way that it is legitimate and right for us to fight as it relates to the Canada -France Fish Treaty. and we make no apology. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, it is the low kind of politics that the Leader of the • O~position plays which therefore sends out a signal to citizens in the Province that politics is not the kind of game to get into.

That is thE! kind of approach that the Leader of the Opposition takes which downgrades his own newly-found profession of politics over law, it downgrades it by accusing a government· or a party or a political leader of those low motives. That signals to everybody that all we are doing here in the House of Assembly is questioning everybody1S motives every time we turn, Mr. Speaker. It is not fair for thE! Leader of the Opposition, it is not right for t~e Leader of the Opposition.

Now that the status they are are still the Socialists have saying, 1but .we official Loya~ Ll9S March 4, 1987 Vol XL Opposition here1, to give themselves some status. How can they utter the words 1loyal1 and 1 official1 when every time any minister or the Premier of the Provtnce gets up they are qUE! s tioni ng motives and talking abo..tt mud and talking about dot.un in the ditches, eVE!ry single thing we do. When we defend the righ t.s of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, when we defend the rights of the inshore fishermen, when t.ue defend our rights ov,?.r a resource that WE! brought into Confederation, Mr.

Speak,?.r, how can they do it? Sure they can attack us as it relates to our approach on it, L1.Je should have done this or we should have done that, but: do not attack our basic motives. WE! did it because we thought it'was right to do when we have 20 or 21 per cent unemployment and when that 10,000 metric tons would mean three to four weeks less work for l~.he plants on the South Coast this year over last year because of t h. at f i s h , w hi c h . mE! an s 1 e s s j o b s this year than last year. which means less tax money for us. ThE!n the Leader of the Opposition talks about the spec:ial warrants.

The hypocrisy, Mr. Speaker! The hypocrisy of it all! In Quest.ion Period the Leader of the Opposition wanted a special warrant for subsidies for people from Bell Island when they come ·over herE! becauSE! of thE! ice. HE! wants a s p e c i a 1 war ran l: for ·t h a t . That would have to be a special warrant. That was not budgeted for. Then hE! turns around a fE!W minutes later and gets up and attacks all the speciaJ. war1nants. Every day over there they are asking for morE! money for everything from top l:o bottom, frorn A to Z. Every single day No. 4 R195

they they sides time. are up as king for it. are speaking out of of their mouths at the So, both same If you look. at all these special warrants here, there are good reasons for them. Baie Verte Mines is the second one there under Finance, $3,300,000, because the management of Baie Verte Mines IncorporatE!d were able to accelerate the amount: of earth OVE!rburden.

ManagernE!nt of Baie Verte Mines did a prediction For the Minister of Mines who gave it to the Minister of Finance, which said, 1 We think in the next twelve months we will take x tons of overburden of rock off the hill so that we can get at the asbestos. 1 Lo and behold, six months later Baie Verte Mines Incorporated come in happy, delighted with themselves. and say, 1 Mr. Minister of Mines, we h~ve done better than we told · you, w~ .have more overburden out of there quicker than we thought, than we told you 1 we are not miners, we depend upon Baie Verte Mines man~gement to teil us.

They did it quicker and they were proud to come in and say it. - therefore we are going to need more money if we are going to continue that accelerated programme, so th~t we will get to the asbestos quicker, so that, therefore, we will get more asbestos out of the ground, so that, therefore, we will be viable quicker. 1 That is a special warrant, Mr. Speaker. Flood control for Rushoon: I can the members opposite now over there if there is a problem in Rushoon. 1 What is the Government of Newfoundland going to do about the flooding in Rushoon? Three or four houses on the river are being flooded.

What are you going to do about it? 1 Sure! we are supposed L196 March 4, 1987 Vol XL to be able to predict floods, Mr. Speaker. We have to predict floods now. That is the next thing we have to do. How do you know for sure how many people are going to be in class welding in the Bay Verte Vocational School? We rely upon the principals of the vocational schools to give us their best numbers, and they give us their best numbers.

Lo and behold, threE! or four months lat.E!r· thE!l~E! are this many more students in this vocational school, there might only be two here, four here, six there, and all of a sudden ybu need a few more vocational instructors. Then, if lJ.Je · do not supply them the Opposition wt1l say, 1 You are not trying to educate the young people of l:his Province for jobs out therE!. You will not give them the vocational instructors. What is wrong with the Government of Newfoundland? We have students going to Baie Verte Vocational School, St. Anthony Vocational School, Bay St.

George Community College, Fisher Technical Institute who want to get in that class. They have called me up in my office, as their M.H.A .• and said, I cannot get in thE!re and takE! this course this year because thE!t'e is no instructor. 1 Who do we re1y on? Is the Minister of Cartc!er Development and Advanced Studies (Mr. Powc:.~

r) supposr:!d l:.o go around to every vocational school and say. You are fired. Principal, I am going to be the principal of all vocational schools in Newfoundland, and I am going to predict how many student? we are going to have this YE!ar? Is that the way you operate? Is that what the Minister of Career Development is supposed to do, or is he supposed to rE!ly on thE! expe!rtiSE! and projections given to him by No. 4 R196

the principals of the vocational schools, all of whom are doing legitimate work and giving the best gestimate that they can? MR. SIMMS: Forest fires. PREMIER PECKFORD: Yes, fares t fires, or the one on Development and Tourism dealing with the cover carrying costs from Se~tember 1986 to September 1987 on Hull 37. Marystown Shipyard: We went to Marystown Shipyard to keep the jobs in Marystown Shipyard, to keep the expertise there, and we guarani:eed the money to Marystown Shipyard to build Hull 37 in the hope that they would be able to sell it. And th,?.y built it and it kept the jobs going in Marystown.

Then we went out to the marketplac~ to -try to selJ. it and we negotiated with the Canadian Coast Guard, and it took them months and months. They said, W~ll, it is a pretty good ship, but we already bought one From Marystown Shipyard and we have to give the other places in Canada a chance. So they had to go look at a boat in Port Hawkesbury, somewhere. MR. TOBIN: It was a secondhand onE! that was built in Marystown. PREMIER PECKFORD: Pardon? MR. TOBIN: It was a secondhand one that had been built in Marystown. PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Port Hawkesbury Shipyard wanted to sell to the Coast Guard this ship.

They said, Do not take Hull 37 from Marystown, take this one from us. We are a shipyard in Canada, too. L197 March 4, 1987 Vol XL So, by the time they got around to doing all of that, we had to pay the carrying costs on Hull 37 because it was not sold. We did not know for sure when it was going to be sold, it could hav'?. bE! en sold soonE!r or it could havE! been sold later. Th! Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) just told mE! that the total here is $29 million. Guess what? In counterve:iling savings we got $2'7 million. So, whilE! WE! spE!nt morE!, we also saved $2'7 million. So what is the difference?

Two million dollars on a $2 billion budget. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: I would like to know of anybody in this House today who manages their own personal budgets any better percentage-wise. We spent another $29 million but we had countervailing savings of $2'7 million. Not bad! Pre~ty good stuff, Mr. Speaker, as far as I can see. Inshore Mackerel Assistance Programme: Here we were last Fall and thE! inshore fishE!ry" from Cape John South had failed miserably.

It might have failed in other places further North, but North of Cape John, right up to Nain, it was relatively good in comparison to what it was South of Cape John. Now lJJho knows if l:he fish are going to swim in or not? Blessed Moses, Mr. Speaker, can u..Je predict that? So, come SeptE!mber, when you get ·into the mackerel, when the mackerel st_arts coming in and the federal government and the other agencies say they have an opportunity to sell somE! rnackel~,?.l to Nigeria or Angola, whereVE!r it happens to be, and everybody is out there howling, and all the No. 4 R197

···-members opposite, 1 Oh, the inshore fishery has been a failure. What is the government going to do about it? 1 ~ government has to do something about eve.rything when something fails. We have to do it about this now - 1 you have to do something•, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Rideout) comes to Cabinet in September and says, 11 Can I get $1.5 million to put into a mackerel assistance programme so that those people who did no ·t catch cod and· were going to go on welfare might have an opportunity to catch mackerel and stay orf welfare?• and, Mr. Speaker, that is somehow condemned here . SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD :. . The Hope Brook Gold Mine, another ... Special Warrant, $500, ObO. When the budget was brought down last year we were negotiating with Hope Brook Mines, we were negotiating with BP-Selco, and they were • negotiat.ing with the federal government ·. Were we going to show our hand, how far we would go before we knew how far the federal government would go, Mr. Speaker? We could not do that, so · we had to wait until . the deal was struck, long af{:er the budget was brought down.

And if there is some Newfoundlander around who wants us to take our money out of Hope Brook Gold Mines and stop the gold mine from going ahead well, fine. Is that · what the Leader of the Opposition is ·saying, we were being irresponsible because the negotiations had not been completed? Is that what the Leader of the Opposition is saying I 11 Close down Hope Brook Gold Mine, because you needed a Special Warrant? 11 If that is -~he way you are going to operate you L198 March 4, 1987 Vol XL wjll never operate a Mr. Speaker.

You operate · a .government. government, will never I remember the Leader of the Opposition coming to Cabinet u.ri l:h things long after the budget was down, Mr. ·Speaker, many, many times. He was not worried about Special Warrants then. He talked about road repairs, bu l: the Leader of the Opposi tton did not go on to say, anybody .in l:he gallery who was listening, •vou should be able to predic l: on maintenance. 1 It goes on to say I 11 Road repairs resulting from severe flooding. 11 Now, predict which road is going to be· flood: ?d in the Province. Predict it, Mr ·. Speaker.

If the Leader of the Opposition is no better at predicting floods than he was at pr-e d i c t i n g p o 1 it i c s , M r : · S pea k e r I he -is going to do an awfully poor job, I can tell you that right now: SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Justice: 11 Additional funding for the hiring of a def•?.nce couns•?.l; various expense!? rE!SUl ting from the fire at the Unified Family Court. 11 That was a fire. We lost the Unified : Fam-.ily Court Building down by the stadium there. Now .WE! have to predict fires .

Emergency Measures Organization : Funds . needed 11 to alleviatE! flooding conditions in various ·locations throughout the Province. 11 More money for the royal commission to get thE!ir report printed. What con ·trol did we have over that? They gave us their budget back in ~he Spring and we put in what they said they would need. They came back la l:er for more for a whole bunch of No. 4 Rl98

reasons which were fairly legitimate. unless you want to go and tell Dr. House and Dr. Ink pen and Harold Lundrigan and the rest down there that they are poor managers and that. you know. it is all half fraud, they did not need l:his muney at all. You have to go on to say these things if you are going to make what l:he Leader of the Opposition says legitimate. Social Services: You cannot predict that accurately. You do not know. If the fishery is good in rural Newfoundland, there wi 11 be · less money for social services. If the fishery is bad. how bad? Where bad? Where good?

How can you tell how much you are going to need exactly. You cannot do it. It is an impossible task. You look at your last year 1 s budgetary figures and put .in an i n flat i o n fa c tor of 2 or -3 or 4 per cent, or whatever it is, and go with it. Then, if the Minister of Social Services Finds· his budget going down because the inshore fishery uJas bad, he has to come back. And these are all legitimate expenses. There is nothing unusual about any of this. You can go through all of them here the same wa~. You cannot accurately predict within 1 per cent or 2 per cent. You cannot do it. .

It is imp o s sib 1 e , the way the world is now, in all of these special warrants. The Leader of the Opposition said and I suppost?. it is a good political poirit, somehow or another, 1 You fought with the Liberals. now you are fighting. with the P. C. s.

You are only pic king for a fight . 1 Now, if the Leadt=:!r of the Opposition could go beyond that, and here is where his law experience should help him and where it has fai1E!d him badly, and L199 March 4, 1987 Vol XL if he could demonstrate by the production of evidence that this was so, then I would say he would have a case and I would have to come back with more evidenCE! than he had. But he has not produ c t:!d one shred of evidencE!.

Every minister here in this government, including myself, have, from the first time the Mulroney Administration got elected right up· to this day, been in constant: contact with our regional minister, whtch is not to say that: if his government -and he is one• of forty-two in it -goes and does a secret fish deal that we are going to kowtow and do nothing about it and not stand up For Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker. Bul~ tAJf• completely and absolutely inform. As a matter of fact, I can pl~oduce all the evidence on that, ·and a lot of it was made public during the Canada -France deal, whE:!n it was at i t.s height.

I prodLiCE!d a lot of that evidence, all l:ht? J.ettE!rs and all. thE! mE!etings and all the rest of .it. In addition to that, we even made a special presentation to the caucus in Ottawa. So, there is no E!VidE!nCE!, the Leader of the Op~osition is only using poJ.itical rhetoric. He;• has no evidence, so all he is doing :j.s just blowing a broadsidE! with nothing under il: t® g-.itH':! il: some sense of credibility.

We have consulted, we have co-operated, but on basic, fundamental issues like rbgional economic development, like the Canada -France deal, and like other initiatives that have been undertaken by the ft?.deral government, if it is not in thE! best interests of this ProvincL"! I ask the people of Newfoundland, do you want l'n£~ to just to cow doum? Do you want me to do nothing? Do you just want me to be a loyal party faithful, eVE!n though WE! arE! No. 4 R199

- losing fish, even though we are losing money on regional economic development? Do you want me to be that kind of a Premier for Newfoundland? I think if I asked that question to Newfoundlanders gE!nerally, or held a plebiscite on it, the answer would be a resounding 1No, no, you are first. We elected you to protect and advance Newfoundland 1s interests within Confederation. That is what we elected Y9U to do 1, and that is what I am going to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: ThE!n the Leader of t:hE! Opposition, in these 1WHEREASES 1, ta1ks about fiscal mismanagement, Mr. Speaker.

This government that from 1979 to now has been on restraint every year, restraining here, restraining there, and the first cry out of everybody is, including the university and the hospitals, Mr. Speaker, when we give them a 6 pE!r cent increase and they want 12 per cent is, 1That is a cutback. 1 They got a 5 per cent increase but it is a cutback.

We WE!nt through a YE!ar there wh1:!n the Oppositton and others outside this House, othE!r · organizations, kept talking on Open Line and in the papers even some of the more knowledgeable press people would put headlines in ·- about 1Cutbacks on Has pi tal s 1 when we could prove, and the numbers were there that they read, that· they had already got t e n a 5 , 6 , 7 o ·r 8 per c e n t increase. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Premier 1s time is up . L200 March 4-, 1987 Uol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. PREMIER PECKFORD: No, Mr.

Speaker, there has been enough damage done on the Lead1c~r of the Opposition already. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: Mr. SpE!aker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for St. Barbe . MR. FUREY: I take great pleasure in joining in this debate , as well, Mr. Speaker. It is extremely interesting to lish~n, as I hav1?. for the last year and a half, since I have be1?.n elected, to l:.he Premier 1 s same speech which hE! gives time after time, agatn cuid again, pulling hair out off his head, shouting, bawling and screaming. If there was a fairy tale, Mr.

Speaker, which was synonymous with this Premier and his administration it would haue to bE! II The [llllperor as New Clothes, because, Mr. Speaker, lAJE! are seeing as each day goes by this administration standing naked, politically naked, and getting on wtth '.its empty, silly rhetoric, day after day, week after week, month aFb?.r rnonl:h. But people are starting to see clearly, Mr. Speaker, and f-inally, that this emperor and this adm"il')istration - and perhaps, Mr. SpE!aker, Premier Moores was right. He surrounded himself with incompetenCE!. Perhaps he is right .

That is arguable, but we wi 1J. a r g u e t hat o n E! 1 at. e r - t hat this admintstration has no clothes, Mr. Speaker. No~, after all of that polygab and No. 4 R20Q

bafflegab that the Premier left hanging in this Assembly we are s t i 11 1 eft wi t. h t hi s , M r . S pea k e r , a year later, and I am sad to report that we are still left with this, we are still left with April 14-, 1986, the coVE!r of Maclean1s magazine, 11 A Province i.1 Despair. . Newfoundland 1 s failed vision. 11 Now, that is really said, Mr. Speaker, be! cause they were elected on a mandate to create meaningful work. And what. dOE!S that

article say? If you review it," if anyone on that side has the courage to review it and go back to twelve months ago, you wiJ.l read in the!re that unemployment in this Province stood at 21 per CE!nt a year ago. Well, where have we come in twelve months? Has unemployment been tackled properly by this administration? I do not think so, Mr. Speaker, because a year later, twelve full months after the meaningful job mandate, that hoax was brought upon · the Newfoundland people, which the tricksters there used to get re-elected, we see unemployment at 21 per CE!nt. Let us look at my particular region, and the regio~s of the member for LaPoile (Mr. MitcheJ.

l) and the member for Humber West (Mr. Baird), that particuJ.ar Western region. In December of 1986 unemployment in Western Newfoundland, Northern Newfoundland and Labrador was at 21.1 per cent. It is now at 26.5 per cent, an increaSE!, a jump· upwards of 4.4 per cent. We 11 , Mr .

Speaker , it is interesting as we listened to the Premier shout his tirade, his repetitive speech, his same old jingoism, his tired empty rhE!toric, this emperor with no clothes, is it not interesting that he did not touch at all on L201 March 4, 19.87 Vol XL the very important resolution put. forward today by Her Majesty 1 s Loyal Opposition Leader (Mr. Barry). Where did he talk abou·l:, for example, Mr. Speaker, that 11 Federal-Provincial relations have never been at a lower ebb11? WherE! dtd he really dr:>al with l:h•?. serious economic crisis that our Province finds itself in today?

From his own lips we are two years away from the Dirty Thtrti•?.s, and we know who created the Dirty Thirties because we know u.Jh•:·J~e that great line 1Tory Times are hard times• carne from. ·SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, most interestingly he did not deal one iota with the final portion of this resolution and let me read it to you: 11AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that when the next Fed•?.ral CeneraJ. E1E!Ction is caJ.led this HoUSE! unanimously seek the defea·t of l:hE! present Federal Administration.11 It is interes·ting th1:!re is a by-election coming up in St. John1s East.

He· did not go on record to tE!lJ. ·us wherE! this crowd of traitors from Ottawa on l:he fish deal, whE!re is hE! standing on this? What is his ~osition on this? Will he carne clean and tell us either he is wi l:h htrn or agin him, for him or hE! does not want any part of him, or whatever? A simple history lesson now, Mr. Speaker. Let us step back in history to August 24, 1984 where the Premier is speaking Province-wide at a press confE!rE!nce. Here is what hE! said, and I quote: 11Th•:!re has L'HH-!11 a growing sense in Mainland Canada over the past two weeks that a real change in federal politics is No. 4 R201

desperately needed in this country. People are now realizing that this real change can only occur if ·the Conservative Party of Canada is electe!d the · majority on September 4. 11 In my view, l:wo overriding developments have happened. 11 Listen to this: 11 Number one, Brian Mulroney is now perceived fa bE! a competent, credible, charismatic le!ader. 11 The Premier of Newfoundland two short years ago called the current Prime Ministe!r competent, I would substitute corrupt, credible, .r would substitute corrupt again, and charismatic, I would substitute corrupt yet again for a third time. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, these words were st.atE?.d by that Premier· about this Prime Minister and what have we seen? A string of resignations, one after the other, after the other for corruption. He went on to say, Mr. SpeakE!r, in · August of 19 84, this Premier, about that administration, he said the following: nrt is not only that the people of Newfoundland and Labrad.or should see that real change. can only come from a Conservative victory, important as that is, it is not only that the peop1e should see Mr.

Mulroney in his true light as a competent leader, as ".important as that is ·, it. must also become fully known far and wide that it is only - and he underlined this ~ only Mr. Mulroney and only the Conservative Party of Canada that haVE! pledged in writing a prosperous future for us here in Newfoundland and Labrador. 11 End of quote from this Premier about that Prime L202 March 4, 1987 Vol XL Minister. Then, did thE!Y not go hand in hand, the two Brians together, on a public stage in Stephenville where he sanctifted thE!Se re!marks. Yes, he did that, he sanctified them.

He said, 11 Good for you Brian Mu1roney, 11 when Mr. Mulroney said, 1 I will not be afraid to inflict prosperity upon the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. 1 Well, was. the rE!ducU.on in quotas to the offshore fleet by 10,000 metric tons an infliction of prosperity? Was Uris secr,~l: dE!al in the dark with the French an infliction of prosperity?

Were the cutb~cks from DREE, the Deparl:rnt?.nt of Regional Econo11lic Industrial Expansion cutback by $45 rni1lton in the latE!St estimates out of Ottawa, aimed at Newfoundland,. airne!d at t:he poorer parts of the country, cut wit.h ·a clever from the federal b~dget, was . that an infliction - of ~rosperity? I hardly thtnk so. Let rnr:.~ go ·-on, Mr. Spt?.aker fi~om the Premier 1 s own words. I want. hirn to listen carefully, as he is I am sure hE! is dou.m in his offiCE! to his own words, 11 What is at stakt?. in this elE!Ction is very sirnplC:~, it is our future.

Whether that future has opportunity and· jobs and a chance for us to be equal to other Canadians, 11 he said, 11 it is an irrefutable fact l:hat Brtan Mulroney and the PC party have offered this chance and no ot:h1?.r political party has done so. 11 He went on to say, 11 We wi11 gE!t long-term jobs from Mr. MulronE!Y. 11 Sure. we haVE! really gotten them have we not. He said, 11 A vote for a PC candidatE! on September 4 wi11 be a vote to ratify the Mulroney/Peckford agrr:.~ement. It t.uill be a vote for thousands of jobs. It will bE! a No. 4 R202

vote for lower taxes and more money for everyone. It will be, in s hart, a vote for property and a future for our children.11 Mr. Speaker, all of which made me believe, as I watched this federal election and this provincial Premier -unheard of, never done by any other provincial Premier to get involved like that in a federal election, cross the barriers, unheard of -start a crusade for prosperity. Rent a bus in Port aux Basques, head across the Province, sing about how ever~thing was going to be rosy. He pegged ~is political future, Mr.

Speaker, to the coat tails of Brian Mulroney and his prosperity crusade makes this evident and clear. · Mr. Speaker, it is just unbelievable how many reams of quotations we could rip from the history books, from -the Premier • s own words where he singled out for praise the Right Hon. Brian Mulroney. Let me just deal again her>e, Mr. Speaker, with the resolution. It is interesting to see the Tory House ·divided. It is interesting to see a Premier, a First Minister, attack so viciously a regional minister in Ottawa of his own stripe. It is interesting thE! see the counterattack come from Ottawa.

Unheard of, the same stripe, cooperation, consultation·, a new era of prosperity, a· crusade for prosperity. Quite clearly in this resolution, Mr. Speaker, we are calling for all of this loud and empty rhetoric to cool off, to settle down, to start establishing a sense of political maturity ~nd to start saying we ought to take responsibility where L203 March 4, ~987 Vol XL responsibility lies with us. We have never seen this Premier nor this administration ever, ever, take resp~nsibility for anything. They are always, Mr. Spe!a k E!r, fixing the blame and never fixing the problem.

It is about time they start standing up to their own responsibilities, looking in the mirrors and seeing themselv•:!s and s a y i n g to t hems e 1 v e s ; 1 w·e ought to start acting responsibly, fiscally be responsible, and bE! responsible with peoples 1 lives. 1 We have not seen that. It is time to cool the rhetoric. It is ·ttrne to get on and be politically mature and deal in a sensible way. LE!'t mE! deal with an illustration here to show-whal~. I mean. Mr. Speaker, in the recent fE!deral budget we saw a fuel tax rebate offered to certain citizens in Canada, across this great su .. H?.eping land.

We saw tax relie-f of thrE!E! cents a liter extended to farmers, to fishermen, to loggE!rS, to . miners, hunters and trappers. We saw this rebate ·for gasolinE! and diesel fuel anywhere where this particuJ.ar SE!Ctor of thE! miXE!d economy uses gasoline or diesel for off highway commercial purposes. Now, Mr. Speaker, is it not interesting that British Columbia managed to get seven point five cents per liter for the farmers out ther·r::1 in the Okanagan Valley. Is it not interesting that the farmers in Alberta managed to get seven point five cents a liter for the farmers of Alberta.

Is it not ~nteresting that the farmers of Saskatchewan managed to get seven point five cents a 1'iter for the farrn.c!r's in Saskatchewan, and the farmers in Manitoba. No. 4 R203

But what do we see here? We see three cents per liter rebate still applies to fishing, logging, mining, hunting, and trapping, three cents a liter, while the farmers out West, where they are consulting with the central government, where they are being reasonable with the central government, where there is a sense of political maturity - I say that about the Tory Premiers out in Western Canada. There is not the raving lunacy, the shouting, that we are seeing from this side of the House. You cannot go and punch all the time.

There comes a time when statesmanship must take over, where political maturity has to take over. I think this is a good example: Seven point five cents a · liter on off highway commercial use for machinery in the farming sector; three cents for the fishermen .. There is a four point five cents differential, and I would say it is brought abcut ·because of ·the incompetence, the absolute arrogance and the absolute shouting going on from that sidE! of the House ·to their own political stripe counterparts in Ottawa. MR. TULK : How many administrations has he had a row with in Ottawa? MR. FUREY : Mr.

Speaker, that is a good question. The' member for Fogo asked mE!, How many administrations has this administration in Newfoundland dealt with in Ottawa? Does anybody in the House know thE! answer to that piE!Ce of trivia? The answer is five administrations. Since Mr. Peckford carne to power in 19'79, he L204 March 4, 19 8 7 Vol XL . has dealt with five federal administrations. In 1979 Mr. Trudeau; the tail end of 1979 with Mr. Clark; in 1980 with Mr. Trudeau; in 1984 with Mr. Turner; and currently with Mr. Mulroney. Can y au fellows talk to anybody? Can you talk to anybody? SOME HON. MEMBE~S: Hear, hear! MR.

FUREY: Five successive, administrations bawled at. different striped you shouted and All of which brings us back to the original pr,~mi s e of my thesis and my argumE!nt, the!re has to bE! po 1 i tical rna turi ty. Your ha v 10! to start saying to yourself, 1 ThE! buck stops here.' You cannot: be lashing out and blaming E!Verybody for your own silly, nonsensical incompetence and we saw incompetence in full technicolor today from the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins). .Mr .• speaker, let me go back to this artiGle, very briefly, of a year ago and let me point out something. A year ago the

article said, 11 Thirty--seven years afl".:1~r joining Confederation, Newfoundland, wi {7.h a population of 524,000, remain~ a have-not Province, bearing no resemblance to the prosperous new Newfoundland which Peckford promised when he succeeded Moores in 1979. 11 It is wonderful for our Brian to Sb:!al from the pages of Eva Peron in Al~gentina and run around and say, 11 Some day the sun will shine and have-not will be no more. 11 But have-not is still here, that is the sad reality afi:er eight years of absolute~ total incompetence. You see this particular manager of our economy has forgotten No. 4 ~ R204

something, that when you are Premiet ~f a Province there are two hats that you wear, the hat of the political leader to fight campaigns, and the hat of the chief executive officer of this company called Newfoundland and Labrador where you have to administer. He has never put on the hat of the chief executive officer, he is Mr. Politician. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear! MR. FUREY: And, Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province know that this emperor is naked. They are going to l:r:'!ll htm, Mr. Speaker, next time around that, 11Mr. Premier, sorry pal, it is ttme that you stopped putting politics beforE! people. 11 That is what we continue to see. Mr. Speaker, this

article went on to say that former ministers, ministE!rS who .did not get E!lected in this current ad ministration, prE! viou s -mini-sters, lambasted . thi_s current Premier with criticism as· well. It said, 11 If. hE! wants to form thE! next govr:'!r·nment,11 said a former Tory Cabinet Minister, Joseph Goudie, 11 he has to have a better relationship with labour. It is as simple as that. 11 He is even getting advice from former Tory Ministers. And I understand recently there was another piece of advtce from a former Tory Premier. Mr. Moores told him that he rn'issed a wonderful window of opportunity on Hibernia.

But Hibernta was not important, getting re-elected was :important, taktng thE!Se trained seals with him to get re-elected was important. That .is what was L205 March 4, 1987 Vol XL important. People were not important -politics, politics, politics. 11It is in me blood, 11 you have often heard him saying. Yes, boy, it is in your blood, politics is in your blood but people ought to be in your heart. That is the difference. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: And finally, Mr. Speake.r, let: 1ne take from the

article one final quotation: 11 Premier Pee kf ord directs the Government of Newfoundland from a suite of offices on the Eighth Floor of Confederation Buildtng. In contrast to the spartan dE!COI~ elsewher·e in l:he building, l:he 6,000 square foot suite is done up in tasteful sha~es of cinnamon, blue and red, renovated last YE!ar at a cost of $450,000.11 And you wonder why we need Special Warrants. You wonder tAJhy tAJt:! ntc!t:!d to swell the deficit. We swell the deficit to swell his ego. Mr. Speaker, one final comment. I wi 11 be v e r y , v e r y i n t: ere s ted i n seeing how Mr.

Peckford and the Premier and his administration vote For this resolut:ion which calls upon them, not just to haVE! a slap at· Ottawa about fish, important as that is, but to a1so look at the severe ~utbacks in DREE, the cutbacks in EPF, Established Programme Financing, the hurt that is happening in hospitals, senior citizens, single parents. MR. SPEAKER: OrdE!r, please! The hon. member's time is up. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave! Np. 4 R205

MR. FUREY: Can I conclude? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, no. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member's time is up . MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, people are politics. finally let me more important Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hr?.ar, hear ! MR. SPEAKER: say than The hon. the Minister of Finance. SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS : Mr.

Speaker, I have read this resolution with some care, and one wo u 1 d hope y o u c o u 1 d vote for it , because other than the fisheries one, it is the second resolution in this House, the first Private Members' l~esolution, and it would be niCE! if you could vote for a resolution in that case. However, having read through it, it is a rE!SOlution that cannot bE! supported. So I can answer the hon. member's question right off in that regard.

With very close study you can see there are a few little things ·in it that are halfway sensible, but the main thrust of the resolution· is totally off the mark, it shows a basic misunderstanding of what governments should do, and particularly the government of this Province should do. It rea1ly shows a bit of a L206 March 4, 1987 Vol XL misunderstanding of what Canada is really all about . Mr. Speaker, the first part of the resolution deals with what causE!d the low ebb of relations betwo~en ourselves and the federal government. Now I think it is instructive to look. Where did this view come from?

A year ago was there talk of the low ebb of r e 1 at ions ? No , there was not . It was not mentioned. The whole time this House sat last Spring tlwl~e was no comme!nt on that whatsoever. In the Summer thel~e was no comment on it. When did this come about? I suggest it first came about after the five year renegotiation process that went on in rE! .gard to fiscal arrangements . · Every province goes into those negotiations with the federal government with a particular attitude in .mind related to their own needs. For instance, Ontario went into those negotiations looking for some improvement in EPF.

They do not get equalizatio ·n. They get EPFs .. I do· not think that many people understand this, that thE! richE!St provinces tn this country gc:~ l: fiscal transfE!rs. It is. not only the have not provinces that get handouts, if you want to call them that, from the federal government. Alberta, in its hey days, when it was building up a heritage fund, was getting fiscal transfers from the federal government. So~ during these negotiations, Ontario went in and looked for increased EPF transfers, but it did not push very hard. MR. BARRY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: No. 4 R206

A point of order, the han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: No, I do not want to do it now. Would the minister permit a qUE!Stion? DR. COLLINS: No. MR. BARRY: At the appropriate time whE!n the minister - DR. COLLINS: No, I have only got -fifteen minutes. MR. BAI~RY: On a point of order then. MR. SPEAKER (Greening): A point of ·order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, we have to bring to the attention of the House what appears to be a serious matter of illegality.

Maybe the minister wi 11 be a b 1 e to ex p 1 a i n , b u t the Special Warrants are dated FE!bruary 26 in some caSE!S·, if not all. I have not had a chance to go through them alJ.. The House of Assembly was open on Februar·y 26. The

section under which the Warrants-were sought provided - DR. COLLINS: Is this Question Period, Mr. Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS: A point of order. MR. BARRY: provided for Special Warrants bed ng obtai ned when the House was clos1?.d. Would the minister care to explain before we carry it f~rther to the att~ntion of the L207 March 4, 1987 Vol XL House? DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. MR. SPEAKER: , o that point of order, the hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Now, the hon. Leader of l:he Opposition got up and he said, 'Would you entertain a question?' I declined.

He said, 'Oh, WE!l1, I make it a point of order. Notu, that is quite improper. If he had a point of order he gets up on a point of orde!r, hE! does not gE!t up on something else and then, tAJht~n he is refused on that, turn it into a point· of order. Mr. Speaker, I say there is no point. of order. MR. SPEAKER: To that poi n t of or d e r , the r 1;! ·-i s no point of order. The han. th~ Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr.

Speaker, continuing with rny interrupted but very interesting address, Ontario went into these nE!gotiations over E~PF wit.h de!rnands For increases in that particular transfer, but thE!Y did not go in very heavily. AN HON. MEMBER: Why? DR. COLLINS:. Why? Because they were doing quite well, thank you very much. They liked the money, but it dtd not matter too much if thE!Y did not get it. We went in there, as did the Maritime Provinces, as did Quebec, as did Manitoba, l:he other have not provinces, and WE! went in there hammer and nail and said, No. 4 R207

Look, the equalization formula is inadequate for purposes for which it was intended because the equalization formula is supposed l:o relate to comparable levels of public services at comparable levels of taxation. And we, like some of thE! othE!r provinces, said, We do not have comparable Canadian average standards of public services and we do not have comparable J.evels of taxation, we have had to have he~vier taxation. So we say thE! equalization formula is not working, you will have to do something about it. It is not a minor point, it is a very, very important point.

We fought hammer and naiJ.s on that but, unfortunately, a Fiscal Transfer Act is a federal act. All you can do is push and remonstrate and argue and complain and . try to get your point, but ultimately it is a federal decision. Now, that is where I would suggest the first suggestion of a change in relations carne about. Prior to that • there was no talk of poor r~lations with the federal government, but people began to say, something is wrong wit.h thE! relations there. Now, what is the next thing that happened?

The n~xt thing that happened was the fishery dispute that we are all very familiar with, and I will not go into it in any grE!at detail. That, of cours~, exacerbated this comment about poor rel.ations. Suppose we did not cornp·lain about the equalization formula, suppose we did not complain about the fishery thing, would there be any complaints about poor relations? Of c our s e ·the r e wo u 1 d not . I t would be nice.

We would have been patsys, we would have been doormats, we would have let down L208 _ March 4, 1987 Vol XL the people of this Province, but, nevertheless, everyone would say, Oh, the relations are great. NotJJ, I put it to hon. members, do you have good relations with someone else when you arE! being a doormat : to someone else, or do you have good relations with someone when you stand up for your rights and they know you are standing up for your rights and they respect you for it?

So I think our relations with thE! federal government - I do not care whether you call them good or what, - ·are at a very heall:hy state now. They know where we stand, and !:hey know we are serious about thE! rights 'and the needs of this Province.

And you can be sure of this, that thE!Y will hesitate the n~;!xt time befor1?. they ignore cases we put forward that are grounded in real trut:t'ls and real reality, not the sort of garbagey stuff that we heard a little while ago: 'You must be · statesmen and go up there and not say anything, just sort of bow your he~d and say everything is nice, tha~k you very much, I do not care what you give rne.' So, this resolution fi"Oin l:hat point of view is very muth off the rnark. It suggests that they do not know what real reJ.ations should be between competing aspects of government.

That is another point where this resolution is unrE!alistic. Canada by ·being a Confederation inevitably has a tension between the f~deral governrnE!nt and t:h1:! provincial orders of government. That is the essence of Confederation and it is welJ. recognized. No one worries or wonders or is in consternation about it. It is the nature of l:he beast that the fE!deral government feel that they have certain things No. 4 R208

to do. Sometimes they overlap with the interests of the provinces and ·the provinces cannot be expected to bow their heads and say, 1 All right, I will surrender any dE!Sires I have or any needs I have. You have y·ou1n own way. 1 No one E!XpE!Cts that. They expect that when these two forces collide there will be, on occasion, tension, controversy and even shouting at one another, and I say God bless it ·for that case. Now, Mr. Speaker, as I said, one looks for good things in this resolution. There is a

WHEREAS here which refers to the need for the federal government to be sensitive to thE! nE!eds in Newfoundland. I say a111en to that . I f u 11 y a g r e e with that . That is the one part of this resolution that I agree with. I would hope that the federal government would show greater sensitivity to this Province. Again, I am not saying anything that is very weird or wonderful or something that has not been said before, but we are far away, we "are 0 small, we are new to Confederation, we are somewhat uniqUE! and therefore our problems are a bit unusual in the Canadian context and we tend to get overlooked.

They do not understand us. When WE! make complaints about fish, they say, 1 Fish? Is that not that sort of smelly stuff? Who wonders about fish anyway? Is meat not better and chicken not better and that sort of thing?1 So there is a lack of· sen~itivity in the Canadian psyche towards the needs of this Province and it is something that has to be changed around, and it is changing and it is changing very largely because of the issues put forward with such clarity and with such persistenct~ by our Premier and by_ L209 March 4, 1987 Vol XL our other approaches to the federal government.

There is a new attitude emerging, but it has a long way to go yet. So I say there is not sufficient sensitivity in the federal government, and I bracket tAr.ith t.he federal government there, Central Canada and, indeed, many parts of Canada. Now, I am not saying that your average Canadian is not sympathetic towards Newfoundland. They very often are, and frequently, if you just m(;:1et thE!rrl in the street, they really show a tremendous interest in the uniqueness of Newfoundland and tn the particular characteristics we display. But sympathy and SE!nsi tivi ty arE! not thE! samE!.

Sensitivity requires an understanding, sympathy requirE!S a liking. I think we are likrO!d in the rest of Canada· but I 0 do not think we are understood in the rest of Canada, and this is !AJhE!re, there is an insensitivity, a lack of understanding of what our rE!aJ. needs are. So thE!re is one gor)d point in this rE!Solution, but that is the only one I can see. Now there is also a comment in this resolution ·about burning bridges. The suggestion is if you stand up for your rights you know you are going to get clobbered, therefore do not stand up for your rights, give it all away.

This ·.is typical, characteristic, historic, traditional liberal political p'hilosophy, give it all atAJay. I mean, there is a motto which should be put over the common rooms of the Liberal Party and it should say, 11Give it all away.11 • Now, our view on this stde of the House is that you make your caSE!. Let the chips fall where they may, but you make your case and stand by your principles. And talking No. 4 R209

about giving it away, sometimes you need to go beyond what is reasonable in the hope of getting something. Hon. members may be interested in this, a little clipping that I cut out of The Globe and Mail recently, just the other day. It does not refer to Newfoundland, it refers to Nova Scotia, and specifically it refers ·to a minister in Nova Scotia, the Minister for Revenue, Elmer MacKay. Now H1e·

article says, and I wi 11 try to paraphrase, that hE! has federal funds for a provincially operated courthouse. In his quote he said, 11 I triE!d to get this. 11 He is not bashful about it. He says, 11 All ministers from Atlantic Canada go to bat for things. 11 And then the

article further on says, 11 A Treasury Board spokesman called the federal contribution unprecedented, but Mr. MacKay came back and said, 1 I think it was a very good precedent. 1 11 • In other words, Mr. MacKay was not ~fraid to sti~d up for his rights. He even went beyond his rights and he got what he felt was needed for his province. Now, you might say it is a little bit strange that the Feds should contribute to a courth~use, and who can cavil with that point? Nevertheless, even though he was going beyond what was reasonable, he was not afraid to go beyond it.

Therefore, you cannot expect this government to draw back from going after something that it has every right to g_o for. You will never get anything unle .ss you go for it. Now, Mr. Speaker, I will finish shortly. There is also blame in this resolution that the Premier has not managed to get t:he Plnime Minister to do something about the Upper Churchill. Mr. Speaker, as L210 March 4, 19 8 7 Vol XL everyone knows, you can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

I agree we have not gotten the Prime Minister to do somethiD9 about the ~pper Churchill and the Prime Minister should do something about the Upper Churchill. We have tried our best to bring this about. We have some sort of commitmE!nt ·that at some point in tirne he ud.ll do something. We will hold hirn to that commitment and uJe expcc~ct: hi.rn to dE!liVE!r on that comrnitrnE!nt, but it is not from want of trying that that has not happened. As everyone in this House knows, this is one of the reasons why WIO! do haVE! financial problE!ITIS in th:Ls Province.

QU1;!bec is making a fortune out of exporting power, Ontario is making a good buck out of exporting power, Manitoba is exporting power, or if it is not exporting now it is s hartly going to do so,. and in hugh blocks. They do this because. it is required for their economic bE!nefi t. What about this poor old Province her:e? We have power l:o develop and WE! have power to export, but we cannot do ".i.t, t:her1~ is a block in the wa·y. I{:. shou1d never have bec::"!n put there. Wh1?.n thE!

Upper Churchill was first put. in place there should have been arrangements made at that stage of the game that there would be an ability for us to furthE!r' deVE!lop l:he power and export: it as a sort of quid pro quo for the arrangement that was put there but, of course, that was riot done. And who was in power at that stage? What administration was fn power at that stage? Anyway, we have put Forward our bcc~·st efforts in trying to unblock that obstacle and we have not been successful. We have failed miserably. We admit it. The only way it will come about now will be No. 4 R210

for the federal government to get involved, and we at least got some sort of commitment from the federal government now that they will take a part. Now, l:his resolution also says we are to blame for the Hibernia delay. In other words, this administration brought down the price of oil, this ad ministration here has prevented the companies from going ·ahead with development, and so on and so forth. I mean, it is so ridiculous! It is so ridiculous! FinalJ.y, Mr. Spe,aker, it say here somewhere about getting our federal rE!preSE!ntative on side in thts, and I fully agree.

We want to have our federal representative on side, we have made representations · to him time and time again about the positions we would like him to take with the faderal· cabinet, and we will dolt again. We have some difficulties sometimes t_n having him take the approach we would like him to take, . but all you can do, again, is put forward your casE,·. We feE!l that he will, and we ft~el that if he does we will get a reasonably good deal for this Province. Because let no one forget there is no federal administration befter than the PCs. Do not tell me about the Liberal federal administrations.

We know what we get out of liberal federal administrations. I hesitate· . to lay too much approbation on the · NDP because we really have not experienced them yet. But, on the other hand ·- MR. TULK: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! L211 March 4, 1987 Uol XL A point of order .' member for Fogo. The han. • the MR. TULK: I . just want to correct something that the hon. membE!r said, and thE! administration seems to be inconsistent in once again.

I arn sure the hon. gentleman recalls the Premier on public ~elevision some two weeks ago saying that he had had better co-operation with the former federal Liberal administration in their last two of office than he has had with this federal government. Now, how dot?.S he square that with the fact that he has just said that any Tory government in Ottawa is better than any other gavernment in Ottawa? You are contradicting the Premier. MR. SIMMS: That is hardly a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! That i~ n~ point of order. The hon. minister 1 s time has just elapsed. DR. COLLINS: By leave!

I am sure hon. members opposite wiJ.l give me all sorts of leave. MR. BARRY: Of course! By leave. MR . SPEAKER: Leave has been granted. DR. COLLINS: I will USE! a couple of minutes to cover t.wo points, actually. We say without any shadow of a doubt in our minds, give . us a PC Government any timE!. That .is not to say that there will be times, No. 4 R211

and we are expecting that there will be times, when the waters are a bit rough. That is to be expected. This is the real life we l:ive tn. We do not live in a dream world. But in the aggregate give me a PC Administration every day of the week and we will be rnu c h further ahead than with any other administration. The other point I will just deal with very briefly, Mr. Speaker. The leader of l:he Opposition did bring up a point about the Special Warrants. Let me clarify that.

ThE!re is· a rE!quirE!ment in The Financial Administration Act that if Special Warrants were obtained when the House is not sitting therE! has to be a tabling of thE! Warrant within fifteen days, I believe, it is, bE!fore thE! House. But if the House is sttting, there has to be a tabling within thrEle days , MR. BARRY: But there are other requirements, too . DR . COLLINS: The thrE!E!· ·--days is today, and they are tabled. Now, the han. member for Gander (Mr. Bake!

r) askE!d rnE! in Question Period if there were Special Warrants issued since the House sat. I stated to him - MR. BAKER : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: A point of order, the han. the member for Gander. MR . BAKER : I should clarify the Minister of Finance's (Dr. Collins) misstatmnent that. he inadvertently made, obviously. L212 March 4-, 1987 Uol XL MR. BAIRD: That is not a point of order, Mr . Speaker. · MR. BAKER: ------I am simply correcting a misstatement, Mr. Speak1':!r, and I am assuming tam allowed to do so. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

BAKER: The question I asked was if in the last six or SE!VE!n days, not sinCE ! the House opened, because I arn quite familiar with the minister and the restrictions that he is operating under. And I would say to the minis l:c~r that he has brok en onE! of thE! provisions of ThE! Financta1 Administration Act wil:h some of these Warrants. MR. SIMMS: No, · he has not . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! of · order. That is no point: The hon. the Minister of Finance . DR. COLLINS : I am speaking by leave.

As I say, the point :is that I did say we had Special Warrants be!fore the HouSE! sat and that is where I fintsh(!d with my comrn'ent. And I rEd tE!ra:tE ! that so1ne of th1 ':!se Special Warrants were obtained before thE ! House sat and were t.abl1:!d today, although they could have gone a Few days longer. but otht::~r om'!s were obtainE!d sinCE! the HouSE! sat and they were tabled today and they were tabled within the restricted t'ime. MR. BARRY: On a point of ord er. Just briefly without delaying the House. No. 4- R212

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. BARRY: I think the minister missed the point that was being made. If the Warrants are obtaineJ when the House is in session, then it is under

Section 28 subsection (3) of The Financial Administration Act and it requires that it be on an expenditure that is unforeseen, not continuing, as in Subsection 28 (2), where it contemplates when the House is not in session and it is ·a matter of a continuing service and the amount is just too low. But Subsection 28 (3) contemplates that the expenditure had been for unforeseen matters, and some of these are on items such as social assistance which seems to be clearly so~ething. that could be foresee~. Doe~ the minister have any explanation for that? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! point of order. That is not a MR.

BARRY: No, by leave! By leave, if the minister wants to an~wer. MR. SPEAKE!~: I did not hear you. MR. BARRY: It is a serious matter. .f~'l"R . S P E A K ~_R : Is this by leave? SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. SPEAKER: By leave. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Leader L213 March 4, 1987 Vol XL of the Opposition thinks he has a point. I do not think he has any point· whatsoever. I will look at his remarks in more detail and possibly comment on it later. 13u·t I can assure him that, in our view, t:he Warrants WE•re don1':! totally within the provisions of The Financial Administration Act. MR.

BARRY: No, they were not. DR. COLLINS: I believe we have Justice on in our

interpretation in regard. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: s ·.ide that The hon. the member for Bellevue. MR". CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleaSE!d to haVE! the opportunity to speak in· this debate. MR. WARREN: Here it· comes, the Comt:! by c·hance hospital. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, the memb1?.1~ oppos-.i l:1':!, my former friend and former colleague, but neither now, suggested I am going to talk about the Come By Chance hospital, and well I might. I will talk about l:hat later on, -.if I gEd:. an opportu.ni ty. If not, I have my own resolut-ion on the Order Paper. Mr.

Speaker, in the few minutes that I have I want to cornrnt::~nt in particular on what the Premier had to say in his charade. That -.is what it was, Mr. Speaker, it was a charade. The Prernter go1::!S through these sorts of charades when he is getting ready for elections u~ually. I am not sure if that is No. 4 R213

what he is heading for, but I noted, Mr. Speaker, that in his remarks thE! Premier talked about US, on this side of the House, being ,hypocritical. In <;>ther words, Mr. Speaker, he called us hypocrites. Now, Mr. Speaker, the weekend before last I had the opportu·ni ty of appearing on the CBC Provincial Affairs programme. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: House Leader (Mr. saw that and he The GoVE!rnment Ottenheirner) thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed it, as I enjoyed broadcasting it. I led off my five minutes on Provincial Affairs by quoting from the scriptures, and I was -happy to nr;>te a couple of nights later when Mr. Crosbie was in town attacking the P