Manitoba Hansard — 12 June 1989 (Sitting 17B, 34th Legislature, 2nd Session)

34-2-17b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, June 12, 1989. The House met at 8 p.m. BUDGET DEBATE Mr. Helmut Pankratz (la Verendrye): Mr. Speak er, it is indeed a great pleasure for me to be able to rise in these Chambers and speak on this Budget. I can honestly say that it has never been so gratifying to me as it is this time. I had the privilege of moving the Throne Speech and, due to my excitement of the occasion, I forgot to congratulate you as Speaker of the House, also the Deputy Speaker (Mr. Chornopyski), the Clerks and the legislative staff.

They are always so friendly when we meet them and they give us a friendly smile. I think they are doing a great job. I want to start off my remarks by, first of all, speaking about my constituency.-(I nterjection)-Mr. Speaker, the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman), I think he will have to try to contain himself during my speech. If not, I would wish that you would make a ruling on him. The constituency of La Verendrye is very diversified. It has a strong agricultural base. It has a strong business climate. It has a very good labour force. It has considerable industry in the area.

Naturally, we would like to see more industry in the area, like most of ours would. The agricultural sector is also very diversified, but I think that the constituency is richer for it. As much as we are hoping that through the new Minister of regional development we will get a little more decentralization and also a little more industry to the constituency, I also am hoping that through his ministry we will be able to get some of the different subcommittee offices to the southeast so that they are not so dependent upon the urban centre of Winnipeg on all their services that are required.

Basically, I want to highlight some of the issues in the Budget. I found it rather interesting that our Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) for the first five days was undecided. I still think that some of their Members are still undecided, and I think that sort of motivated me that I should go over the Budget once more with them. I realize that the New Democratic Party has indicated that they will support the Budget, and I must say in all fairness I really appreciated the Member for Churchill (Mr. Cowan), his speech this afternoon. I think it was a good speech.

It was a speech that he indicated they did not agree with all of it, they would like to see more in certain areas, but in general they could accept it and they could vote with it. •

(2005) Mr. Speaker, I think there are still a few Members on the Liberal side who feel very much the same way and so, for that reason, I feel motivated that I should 506 review parts of the Budget once more with them. Maybe after I am through with them, discussing this Budget once more, then maybe some of them will have seen the light and seen the responsibility that they have been elected to their constituency and the responsibility they have. Hopefully, with that, they will maybe change their mind and be able to vote with the Budget, and have the people of Manitoba appreciate them as their representatives.

I believe, Mr. Speaker, we have to be stewards of what has been entrusted to us. We have to show responsibility with that. I think the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld) put it the other day very well, when he indicated that it was even through biblical times that when you had your good years you should fill the bins, so that when you had your years of drought and so forth that you could use those bins to carry you through in the leaner years. I think that was well taken, and I think that is maybe one area where we today disagree with the NDP philosophy.

They would like to now naturally see us deplete all the funds that are available and that are going into this fund that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) is going to be establishing after the Budget has been approved. So first of all, Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister (Mr. Manness) in his wisdom has been able to cut the deficit by over 70 percent in two years. I cannot understand how anybody in his right mind can actually vote against that type of a cut. But, Mr. Speaker, if I could have your attention, I would wish that you would watch the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) a little more closely.

I think you should. I would like to actually mention to the Member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) that seeing we know how he is going to vote, maybe he does not even have to spend his time in the House. But then again, who am I to judge where he spends his time? Health and Education will receive a 7 percent increase.

In a time when we see the Health fund-for instance, let us go through the Health budget: $1.5 billion to fund Manitoba health care system, an increase of almost 100 million from last year, that is this increase alone; $54 million more for Manitoba hospitals this year; $13 million more for Personal Care; $11 million more for Pharmacare. These are things that we, on this side of the House, are really grateful for that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) has been able to come through with a Budget that will look after the health and welfare needs of the people in the Province of Manitoba.

I must indicate to you, I commute back and forth from Steinbach every day to this Legislature. In the morning before I leave, I usually stop in at one of the local restaurants. I have met literally hundreds and hundreds of people, and all they do is praise us for this Budget. They praise us for this Budget. Not one person has come to me and has said, you should have done this, you should have done that. You know what

Monday, June 12, 1989 they ask us, what they ask me? How in the world, in the short period of time that you have been in Government, have you been able to turn that whole thing around into a position where for once you could have a balanced Budget? They realize that. They know numbers. They know financial statements. They can read accounts, anybody can. Maybe not anybody, that is true enough. So, Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that is the response that I am getting from my constituents. An Honourable ·Member: Hear, hear! *

(2010) Mr. Pankratz: This Budget is putting $857 million to support schools, post-secondary education and training programs to provide more opportunities for Manitobans, $13 million more for Manitoba universities, $13 million more for Manitoba universities, $13 million more; $37 million more for the private and secondary school system. Private schools, that reminds me of the private schools. Why should private schools not get additional funding? Why does our Opposition talk against private schools getting funding? You know, you cannot have it both ways.

You are going to vote against this Budget, so obviously you do not like that this money is going for private schools. Obviously, you do not like it or you would be able to vote in favour of this. Mr. Speaker, Family Services, $491 million for services to aid and protect Manitoba families, $6 million more for day care services. There you have it, $6 million more for day care services, $1.5 million more tor programs to help prevent wife abuse. This is just something incredible with this Budget. I can see why the Opposition is scared that this is an election Budget.

I can see why, because the longer people realize and see and study this-yes, I think this is a pamphlet like was questioned before, whether I had this in my pamphlet. I expect to send this out to my constituents, and I want to have them realize right from the start when they hear on the radio how the Leader of the Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) really is talking against-she will have to vote. First of all, she is undecided for six days. Now the Members are one at a time stating they maybe will and maybe will not, most of them I think.

I believe we have an opportunity here where we could see where the Province of Manitoba -(Interjection)-Here again there is quite a bit of interference, but I think we must realize that this Budget, just all in all, is something that is very difficult for the Opposition to object to, and I think that is why they are floundering. Agriculture and rural development, the first thing that was asked of me after this Budget was how come agriculture got cut. Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Yes. Mr. Pankratz: See, the Member for Dauphin, yes. would 'fike to get his·

interpretation ·Of agriculture. wonder if he knows what agriculture means. 507 The fact remains that last year this Government put $18 million into drought assistance, $18 million in one program alone. Mr. Speaker, do you think that it is up to the Government to budget for disaster? This would be unreal. That is why our Finance Minister (Mr. Manness) in his wisdom saw the need to put up this fund. If there will be another disi;ister in agriculture or if there will be a disaster in some other, whatever it may be, then there is a fund where monies can be drawn from at that point in stage.

An Honourable Member: Flood assistance. Mr. Pank ratz: Flood assistance, the Member states flood assistance, a good possibility. If we will get more rain like this, it is possible. I think this Budget addresses the needs of agriculture at the present, and I think that is all that Budget should do. Just in case hypothetically we would all of a sudden get an earthquake or anything of that nature, that is what it seems the Liberals would at the present-some of the ·uberals, pardon me. I should not mention all the Liberals because I think some of them can see this Budget as a very good Budget.

I think they will really have to do some soul-searching before they can find a ways and means to vote against this Budget. I think that is why it is very important that we once again try to draw it to their attention, this Budget, and hopefully when the vote is the day after tomorrow, when we will have an opportunity to vote on this Budget, that they will vote with us. Mr. Speaker, Environment, a new department with a broadened mandate and a 10.6 percent funding increase reflects the importance of environmental protection. This is great. I think this is a new initiative on behalf of this Government.

We are really supporting this and I hope that it will be beneficial to all people in the province. I know it will be because it is under a good ministry. *

(2015) Entrepreneurial support, 38 million for programs to encourage trade investment and the formation of new 1 business enterprises, establishment of the Manitoba Business Starts Loan Guarantee Program to help women and rural residents form new businesses. Mr. Speaker, up to $10,000 per new business, I think that is tremendous for a small business to start. Under the previous administration, one of the Members came to me and he said, do you know how to start a small business? I said, no, how do you start a small business? Just buy a big business and in a couple of years you are a small business.

I think we are very fortunate that we had a Member in the previous administratiOn and actually, if it would be appropriate, I would like to dedicate a minute of silence in this House to him. The Honourable Member for St. Vital, Mr. Walding, who saw the light and in all fairness· he was an NOP Member, but he saw where this province was heading to, in what direction. I think in all fairness we owe a lot of this, that we have been able to turn the province around, to Mr. Walding's foresight.

Monday, June 12, 1989 Then we have the Justice, 11 million extra to provide exte nded services, and to clear up backlog in the court system and the Land Titles Office. We have seen within the first eight or nine months we took office, tha t backlog was cleared up, and now the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) is work ing with the Land Titles Offices. He has done a lot of work with tha t and with the court system. All in all, I must say this is a tremen dous Budget. Mr. Speaker, as you know, the NDP had a Mem ber who brought down their Government. We had a Member who defected our Party .

Actually the Memb er for Springfield (Mr. Roch) is a nice Member. I hope you people will tr eat him well. He is sensitive to certain issues and so forth, but in all fairness he is a good Mem ber. I, personally, would wish tha t he would see the light and possibly come back to where he should be, where the people of Springfield have elected him to be, a Conservative in that riding, but that is naturally the decision he will have to make.

But on August 10, 1988 he stated, "I think tha t despite what we have heard from the media and other Members opposite" -a t that time he was on this side of the House-"I happen to believe th at this is a good Budget. It is not perfect. No Budget will ever be, but it is a very good Budget, worthy of our support." Then he goes on, "I would like to quote the Leader of the Opposition in a couple of comments she has made in regard to this Budget and in the election.

During the election, " I am quoting the Mem ber for Springfield, "she said that she could not possibly prom ise to hold personal and corporate taxes at current rates, and now she wants them cut. The exact quote was: 'How can I bring down the debt and deficit of the province and commit to holding down taxes ?' We did it." The Mem ber for Springfield says, "True, th ere was-maybe some call it a windfall, th ere was a few extra dollars com ing around-but had that money been in the hands of the previous Gover nment, would the y have done what we did? I doubt it very much." Mr.

Speaker, I can go on and on and on and quo te the m.- (Int erjection)-Well, I should maybe put a few mor e. The Honourable Highways Minister (Mr . Albert Driedger) indicates I should put a few mor e of th ese on the reco rd. No one can change a Government's fiscal plans in a few months . Today he sits on the other side with the Opposition and he is speaking against this Budget, this was the '88 Budget on August 10, and now he speaks against this one. This one he cannot support, a Budget tha t I believe he will have a lot of difficulty with . I am quoting him again.

"I am afraid that it would have been squandered, but I ask, had the Liberal Par ty formed the Government, what would they have done?" Thi s is quoting the Mem ber for Springfield (Mr. Roch). "What would the y have done? Would th ey have done as we did or would the y have done as some of the Members say, spend, spend?" Well, let me know because -(Interjection)-tha t is right. "Spend, spend. " The y indicated $700 million more that they wanted to spend in their last year's Budget-$700 million mo re. I am quo ting the Mem ber for Springfield (Mr. Roch). "We do not know. We may never find out. We are not sur e . . .

That is one thing tha t is impo rtant to 508 remember , that the Government has no money. It is the people's mon ey. We are here entrusted, whether in Government or in Opposition, to do what is best for the people of Manitoba." I am quoting him. I think that is a very valid statement tha t he indicated, that this has been entrus ted to us as elected people. I think that is very important that what we do here in this Hous e tha t we are good stewards of the finances, the taxes tha t are imposed through our legislation and that we are good stewards of this that has been entru sted to us. *

(2020) I have to go back again to this Budg et, tha t this is some thing tha t we can just be so proud of. I think we are showing to the people in the Province of Manitoba that we are good stewards. We are giving back personal taxes of 2 percent, plus we have the child care from $50 to $250 per child. Now, what have we added in taxes? -(Interjection)-Yes, as of September 5, 1989, 1 cent per litre. An Honourable Member: Terrible. Mr. Pankratz: Well, I agree with you. Perso nally, I would have wished tha t we would not have had to do tha t, but I am so pleased tha t the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Manness) also has stated tha t this is going to go for road impr ovements. We ha ve not seen road improvements in the southern part of the pro vince. Yes, the Mem ber for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman), ther e were road improvements.- (Int erjection)-Yes, you are right, the Mem ber for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry), he has, right to his cabin -(Interjection)-somebody is stating. I would not doubt it. I have not been up th ere but the y tell me th ose roads are beautiful in the Dauphin area. I am happy to see tha t the Finance Minister (Mr.

Manness), as much as I would not like to see the 1 cent per litre but I am happy to see tha t this is directed specifically to roads, roads tha t southern Manitoba so desperately need. I must also indicate tha t since this last year now we have got the new Highways Minister (Mr. Albert Driedger), th ere was virtually no road building in our constituency. Thanks to the Member for Emer son (M r. Driedger), I am very pleased with the Mem ber for Emerson tha t in my constituency, as in quite a few other s, ther e is a lot of progress being made. Mr. Speaker, the other tax that will be increased is on the cigarettes.

I want to read to you from Hansard from Monday, 29th February, 1988, where the Leader of the Opposition (M rs. Carstairs) states, "I do give the Minister credit for the cigarette tax. As far as I am concerned, I would ban them forever from the face of the earth, but in terms of revenue it is a reasonable incentiv e for people to give up smo king and I congra tulate him on that." So, Mr. Speaker, once again ther e is no reason to oppose this Budget on that increase.

I am just beginning to wonder when the se Mem bers will actually analyze and see on what basis the y shall defend their vote, tha t I think some of them Wednesday will come around and possibly support the Budget. I must say again, I am happ y to see the NDP can live with it, and who I would think would be the first

Monday, June 12, 1989 ones who should not be able to see eye-to-eye with us on this Budget. I am pleased they are seeing they can live with this Budget, and are prepared to accept it and vote in favour of it. I think rightly so, if it is like the Leader of the Liberal Party states, that each Member will be able to vote on their own, tha t she is not going to dictate like she trie s to do in this House, like she is not trying to run the show. Once the Mem bers will be able to realize they can vote on their own, tha t th ey are elected for their const ituents, I think then the y will realize this is. a good Budget and they will vote with it. *

(2025) I think we all realize the last week has sort of been devastating for the Liberal Party, with some of the comments that were in the Free Press and the papers. I do not know whether I should go into detail. An Honourable Member: Go into a lot of detail. Mr. Pankratz: Some of the Mem bers in this House would like me to read some of th ese excerpts from the papers. I will just refer to some of them. I will not read all of it. My time would not permit me to.

"Liberal attack on the To ries backfi red with a vengeance yesterday when federal officials said it is impossible for Manitoba to get tax break benefits six months earlier than announced in the Budget Monday." I am prepared to table all of the se clippings I have before me, so that the Member s of the Opposition Party could read them. Maybe they do not get the papers. Maybe they do not know what it states in some of these because it indicates, and I think you should well remem ber that, to bring forward that type of a structure, you have to first know tha t you can pass a Budget.

In this case, with a minority position like we are in, we have to nego tiate with other Mem bers. This is why we are actually pleading with you tonight as well. An Honourable Member: Inc ome tax cuts. Mr. Pankratz: That is right. There is another point would like to make. The Finance Minister (Mr. Manness) in his Budget Address also indicated the interest tha t this province is paying, $1.6 million a day, $1.6 million a day. I think we are for tunate we are not the people who created it but I think in all fairness, because we are elected, we have to be responsible for ii. I think the Financ e Minister (Mr .

Man ness), Mem bers of Cabinet, I think they showed responsibility. I think the y sh owed very good leadership. In my constituency and as I indicated before, in the resta urants and the people I have talked to, phone calls I have received, everybody is just pleased with this Budget. I think in all fairness I would wish the Mem bers opposite would- An Honourable Member: Come to their senses. Mr. Pankratz: Come to their senses, yes, I must agree, come to their senses. (Mr. Deputy Speaker, William Chorn opyski, in the Chair.) 509 In closing, I just want to go to Sharon Carstairs (L eader of the Op position) .

On June 12, Sh aron Carstairs must start thinking before she talks. I think this was done by Fred Cleverley, and I have always apprecia ted his com men ts. It states here in his comments tha t "t he society for the preservation of Official Opposition status for Manitoba Liberals hum bly offers some advice. If the Liberals are not going to sink into their place, raising again the spectrum of NOP rule, then the Party and particularly Sharon are going to have to pull up their socks. For starters, Sharon is going to have to become a bit mor e consistent." An Honourable Member: Tha t is impossible.

Her inconsistency is consistency. Mr. Pankratz: It said consistent. The Mem ber for Chur ch ill (Mr. Cowan) was just making a comment from his seat. What were you referring to? I think he was conceited eh, is tha t right? Arrogant, what did you use? I think you gave a pretty good explanation of tha t in your speech. It was a very good speech, and I hope to reread your speech a couple of times. I think it was a very good speech, Mem ber for Chur chill. I possibly will use parts of it. *

(2030) Then I want to go to one other point, and tha t is Friday, May 19, 1989, point of or der. The Leader of the Opposition (M rs. Carstairs) jumped up and I can just see how she jumped out of her chair, point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker says what is your point of order? Mrs. Carstairs: "Th is particular Mem ber in his usual disgraceful fashion" -this is the Leader of the Opposition spe aking- "i s making comments for which th ere is absolutely no basis in fact.

He and he alone has played partisan politics on the issues of Portage la Prairie from the very, very beginning while clothing himself in political rhetor ic, and I demand an apology." I think a Mem ber who was elected in '86 when I did, when she would tell me from her chair that she wanted to only be in Opposition and be critical of the Government Party only if it was factual, she was not going to be opposing anything on the basis of just because she was in Opposition.

I think everybody in this House realizes tha t the only-s he feels tha t being in Oppo sition she has to be critic al and oppo se everything tha t the Government of the Day does, even when the Government comes down with a Budget tha t we have not seen like this in a decade. The Mem bers of the Liberal Party, if they will review the Budget closely, I think in all fairness the Minister of Financ e (Mr . Ma nness) is prep ared to spend additional time with them if they need it to explain cert ain issues on it to them.

I think then they will realize tha t this is a good Budget for the Pro vince of Manitoba, and then the y will vote with us. With tha t, I want to thank you for bearing with me and for me having this opportun ity to speak in this House on this very good Budget. Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The ·Honourable Mem ber for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) has the floor.

Monday, June 12, 1989 Mr. Plohman: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I appreciate the oppor tunity once again this evening to speak to the Budget. It certainly is one that I have a great deal of mixed feelings about , some good points about it certainly, but some very difficult areas tha t I find very difficult to support. I can tell you I am very pleased to see our election com mitment imp leme nted by this Cons ervat ive Gover nment with regard to tax breaks for families. It is some thing that we campaigned for just over a year ago, onc e we realized there would be additio nal revenues coming from the federal Gover nment.

At tha t time, we re alized when we were making th at comm itment th ere were additional revenues coming from the federal Government tha t were being made available to the province, some thing tha t the Mem ber for Morris, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), has acknowledged rather grudgingly, tha t it was not his good management- An Honourable Member: He put it right in print in his Budget Speech, pal. Mr. Plohman: Just printed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, just barely printed. Of course he did not acknowledge to the extent he should have the cont ributions made by one Eugene Kostyra, the former Minister of Finance.

What he forgot to mention with any for thrightne ss and strong state ments was th at the reason he is feeling so smug in his chair here tonight, and why he has been feeling rather comfor table in his shoes was that the former Member for Seven Oaks, the Minister of Finance in the previous Government, made this all possible. I would like to see the Member for Mor ris, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) stand up once in a while and say thank you, Eugene. I think he should be saying tha t much mor e freq uently because he put you th ere. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh! Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order, please; order, please. Mr. Plohman: Well, he has lots of people to thank. The Premier (Mr. Filmon) ment ions, thank you, Jim Walding. Of course, he has a number of people to thank, but certainly one of the people who made it possible and you kno w this bunch over he re, th ese Conservatives, said th ere was gross mismanagement across this province during the election. That was not true but the y knew it played well. We had the Conservative media and the Liberal media, we had the Conservatives and then we had the Li berals joining in because it sounded good too.

The Conservatives knew better but the liberals joined right in harmonizing beautifully with the Tories on tha t, because of course it sounded good and the y thought the people would go for it. Well, Jim Walding was right . The y did. Now what the Mem ber for Morris and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) has failed to ment ion and highlight is tha t is precisely the reason why he has been able to come forward with the kind of Budget tha t he has at this time. Now th ere are a lot of shor tcom ings but, as I indicated, the cuts for families in taxes was 510 a very important aspect of this Budget.

Unfort unately, the Minister of Finance was not completely hone st last year. Well, he was always hone st but he chose different ways of presenting his figures. Rather than showing a $48 million surplus last year tha t was the legacy left by that NDP Government in fact for 1988-89, he instead showed a $152 million deficit which he could have shown because of that $200 million. In fact, is it not ironic tha t it was a New Democrat ic Government, and this is interes ting for the Liberals to hear because I believe the y really did not know that the New Democrats were good managers.

They believed the y were not, just like the Conservatives said. They believed the Conservative rhetoric . I heard the Liberals speaking the first year here. Time after time, the y spoke in a very conceited fashion as if th ose New Democrats did not know what the y were doing. The fact is it is shown in only one short year and a couple of months after the election that we knew exactly what we were doing. The only thing is there is one fellow who is off in Victoria who was not going along with that at that particular time for various reasons.

The fact is this New Democratic Government knew precisely what it was doing and tha t is why the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) is sitting so comfortably in his chair right now, albeit with a minority Govern ment, which makes it not so comfor table sometimes. He definitely has to weigh that from time to time, and he did when he brought this Budget down. He pulled out the paper tha t was prepared by the staff in the Finance Depart ment for Gary Doer (L eader of the Second Opposition) just over a year ago. He said, hey, th at looks pretty good, I can live with that.

He put it in the Budget and there it was, $61 million which is 58 plus inflation. He has the same program he re almost to a "t " that the Ne w Democ ratic Leader brought forward. I wish he would tell the people of Manitoba tha t over and over again. Thank Eugene Kostyra. He can thank Jim Walding, but thank you, Eugene Kos tyra. Thank the fact tha t he had the good for tune to walk into a windfall of federal revenues, and then thank Gary Doer for bringing forward such a good program tha t he implemented in this Budget. That is all he has to do.

It takes a little bit of humility, and he can do that if he really tr ies. It is difficult I know when he is sitting with a surplus Budget. It is difficult to have humility, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but even the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) could find it. Now, is it not humo rous to see the libe rals say that the y thought of it. We heard the facts tonight about where this came from, right? The y were just spoken in this House, but the Conservatives say, well, we kind of felt maybe the families should have a break for a change. But they got the idea from Gary Doer and the New Democrats.

Is it not interesting that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr s. Carstairs) suddenly discovered in the co mm ents-y ou cou ld see right after the Budget-th at she is the one who brought forward and put the pressure on this Government to bring in the tax breaks for families? You never heard hide nor hair of it. *

(2040) Monday, June 12, 1989 An Honourable Member: Who? Mr. Plohman: The Leader of the Opposition (M rs. Carstairs), the Official Opposition if you want to call her tha t. The fact is, the real Leader of the Opposition, the real Opposition Leader, is the Mem ber for Concordia (Mr. Doer). We have the Li beral Leader who now says, yeah, we were in favour of cuts for families too. Is tha t not hum orous? Is that not out rageous? She is the one who went around saying tha t she was going to give br eaks by cutting out $200 million of taxes for corpora tions by rem oving completely the payro ll tax.

Then she was going to phase it in over a period of thr ee years but then she said, I do not know what thr ee years. We could see the indecision tha t was th ere during the election by the Li beral Leader (M rs. Carstairs). Now it has come out again in this House, this indecision with regard to the Budget. She was rather positive about taking credit for the tax cuts for families. I do not think there were too many Manitobans who believed her on th at. I do not know if there were very many at all.

As a matter of fact, I think she has lost all her cred ibility, if she had any, when she came into this Hous e after the last election campaign. More and more people are realizing tha t the Leader of the Liberal Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) in this province will try to change courses, depending on where the wind is blowing. She does not stand by any principles or by any set policy.

Then she came out -{lnterjection) well, you know it is interesting tha t I heard th ese rumo urs tha t I was going to join the Liberals and then I thought to myself, well, would that not be ironic, would tha t not be ironic, would tha t not be ironic? -(lnterjection) The Member for St. James (Mr. Edwards) said he turned me down. He should try saying some thing credible in this House. Even the Government Mem bers do not believe him.

The fact is I though t it wou ld be terrible tha t the president of the Liberal Party would lose out in his battle for the nomination in Dauphin in the next election if I were to do tha t. Now I thought tha t would be awful, so I decided, after wavering to stay back, to stay with the New Dem ocrats, to stay in my real home and at the same time when the Leader of the Opposition (M rs. Carstairs) came forward by flip-flopping all over and not knowing how she was going to vote, it cinched it for me. I felt there is no way tha t I could ever, ever - (Int erjection)-Oh, was I? It was really some thing else.

But like I say, tc ould not bear to.do that to the president of the Liberal Party just when he had everyt hing going for him. I want to tell you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that insofar as the taxation benefits for fam ilies, I can support this Budget.-(I nterjection)-Well, I want to tell you tha t the Liberals had put their star way up in the sky. The y tho ught that th ere were treme ndous opportunities there and I did not want to deflate tha t just at this particular time. I told the Members that I just could not go thr ough with it.

I am saying this all to the Deputy Speaker with tongue-in-cheek, just so he realizes tha t as far as the reco rd is concerned some of this is just wavering a little bit from what the actual story was on this one. I 511 did hear the se rumour s. I want to tell you that after the flip-flopping on the Budget, I just could not see my way thr ough it. Now I want to talk more about the income tax benefits here and the corpor ate taxation. I note tha t the income tax changes here, projected by the Budget, show that there will be a decline by a fraction of 1 percent.

Roughly $2 million for personal income tax is projected. Revenue from corpo rate income taxes is expected to decline by 20 percent, or $45 million. Of the total income tax collected in Manitoba from corpora tions, it is only 16 percent of the total income taxes that are collected, only 16 percent. I wonder whether families in Manitoba would appreciate that kind of a shar e insofar as these large corpora tions getting tax benefits such as that, wher eas the families are footing the bill for the majority of it. I have to tell the Conservatives tha t is an area tha t at some point th ey are going to have to face.

Now, he also removed some rather important taxes he feels with regard to the corpo rate tax, the 1 percent reduction in the corpo rate tax, he said, the bank tax. I think this Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) should consider this very carefully. He used an excuse tha t somehow federal tax reform would be the reason for him coming forward with some movement on the capital tax. He said that may be appropriate. He said he was interested in our views. Well, I have to tell him that the se same banks tha t the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Manness) is feeling sorr y for as a result of changes in the federal taxation policies are the same ones tha t have profits of nearly $2 billion in the first half of 1989, nearly $2 billion. Their profits are up over 50 percent over the previous year, and I fail to see how he can justify this kind of a change in taxat ion for th ese corpora tions when th ey ar e generating th ose huge profits at this time. I really cannot understand how any political Party could support tha t kind of rationale on the part of this Government, except perhaps the Liberals.

The y would be willing to let the banks off the hook as well. If we look at the unemployment factors, again I have a great deal of difficulty with the way this Government is operating. Now we are the fourth lowest in the country insofar as unemployment is concerned. We used to be the lowest or second lowest in this country. Winnipeg is high enough. The rates have been very high, for a short time close to St. Joh n's, Newfoundland, but tha t has been said in this House several times because it is worrisome.

But the fact is that in rural areas this Government is not objecting to the movement of people out of our rural areas, ha st ening the decline of our ru ral com munities and our rural families because that is exactly what is happening with federal Government policies at the pr esent time. But we do not see, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, any loud protest by this Governme nt, this Conservative Government in this province, to the changes in the UIC , for examp le, unemployment insurance which has. resulted .in people being paid to relocate out of our rural and northern communities to areas of lower unemployment like Toronto, where the unemployment rates are low. That is the kind of char\'ges tha t the Conservative Government in Ottawa is ·putt ing in and not protested

Monday, June 12, 1989 by this provincial Government that sees people moving out of the rural areas, hastening the decline rather than creating jobs. I think the Minister responsible for Rural Development (Mr.

Penner) has a tremendous challenge on his hands if he wants to ser iously make an impact and reverse this trend which is becoming alarmingly difficult in the last number of years, particularly under the Conservative Government in Ottawa because of their policies of profits only for Crown corpora tions, the botto m-line profits, on CN layoffs and VIA cuts well, VIA cuts made by former Liberal Governments, that is true, deregulation policies introd uced first by Lloyd Axworthy and the Liberal Government of Pierre Trudeau.

We also see the rail line abandonment policies, the privatization and closure of post offices. All of the se policies are hastening the decline of our rural areas and th ey do not have another policy in place to overcome tha t. Tha t greatly disturbs me, particularly in light of the fact of this Budget. Rural economic development has been cut by 7.5 percent in this Budget, 7.5 percent under rural economic development. It is interes ting to hear the Minister responsible for rural economic development (Mr .

Penner), which is the department whic h provides funding to reg ional development corpora tions, is down from $1,264, 100 to $1, 169,400 which works out to a 7.5 percent decrease when they ha ve formed a Rur al Development Department. What can the Premier (Mr. Filmon) say about that when he has a Minister responsible for rural economic development and he cuts the funding for rural economic development? What a charade, smoke and mirrors. I wonder whether tha t is going to be able to pass the people's scrutiny.

Tourism marke ting, so essential for the Parklands reg ion of this province and many other areas, is down by 8 percent -t ourism marke ting. How can the y justify that when so many rural areas will suffer and northern areas will suffer tha t could benefit from this marketi ng. The y talk about tr ickle-down theo ry, that the y believe in the philosophy tha t the y do not put money into job creation. They reduce taxes and get the businesses to create jobs. This is certainly one within that philosophy.

I would think tha t you market the province so that people will come and the businesses will thrive and you can employ people, but they are even cutting in tha t area. I do not understand how the Premier and his Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Ernst) are going to be able to justify tha t. * (2050 ) They have cut Manitoba industrial opportunities. The Venture Capital Program is down 44 percent, huge cuts. Meanwhile the people and the commun ities are being devastated by tremendously high cuts in the rural areas as well. Mr. Jay Cowan (Churchill): Shameful. Mr. Plohman: It is shameful.

The Member for Chur chill (Mr . Cowan) says shame, I say tha t is shame ful. We see no effort from that Premier when he gets on the phone to his counterpart, the Prime Minister of Canada, 512 imagine. Could he give me a straight answer today when I asked what he is doing about th ose things? Did he raise th ose things? Did he raise tho se serious concerns to Manitobans? Oh, he says we always talk about serious things. He did not tell us that he has raised th ose issues.

He did not get a commitment from the federal Prime Minister to sit down face to face with the people of Por tage la Prairie, with the people of Chur chill, with the people affected by the ERDA agre ement cuts and ha ve tho se reversed -no commitment from tha t federal Government. Unlike my colleague, the Mem ber for Churc hill (Mr. Cowan), and my Leader, the Member for Concord ia (Mr. Doer), and the other Members of the delegation, the Mem ber for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), the Member for Rupertsland (Mr.

Harper) and myself and a number of people from the commun ities, the MP for Chur chill who went down and sat down with two Ministers, the Mem ber resp onsible for the Wheat Board and Western Diversification Fund, the Minister, as well as the Minister of Tr ansp ort for Canada, Benoit Bouchard, and extracted a comm itment to the Port of Chur chill from them at this meeting. Mr. Deputy Speaker, tha t is what has to be done when you meet face to face with the federal Ministers. Certainly, I would expect the Premier (Mr.

Filmon) to be able to do that by phone but he is going to have to get tho se face-to-face meetings, and I do not even know if he asked for them. He would not even say he asked for them when he talked with the Prime Minister, and I think that is regrett able. Tha t is a disservice to the people of this province. Unfortunately, we do not even hear the Liberal Leader (M rs. Carstairs) make any noise, very little about the Por t of Chur chill. She has spoken about Portage, but we see some token statements about the Port of Chur chill.

She does not realize the tre mendous impact tha t port ha s for this countr y, the treme ndous importance, or is it just the fact that the people up ther e do not vote proper ly, and th ere does not seem to be any hope for the Liberals.-(Int erjection)-Maybe that has some thing to do with it, I do not know. Maybe I stumb led onto some thing th ere. Let me tell you, the se cuts in rural areas are devastating by the fed eral Government. I want to read part of a letter tha t one constituent has written to the Mem ber for Da uphin-Swan River, the federal MP, Brian White, because he is silent. Hon .

Jack Penner (Minister of Rural Development): A good man. Mr. Plohman: The Minister for Rural Development (Mr. Penner) sa i.d, good man. Ther e is a Mem ber of Parliament who is silent on all of th ese vital issues affecting his const ituents. He is silent because he has no impact. He cannot influence the decisions that are being made by tha t Government, and that is what the Minister for Rural Development (Mr. Penner) says, good man. Well, let us take a look. "Dear Brian Wh ite, Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Ch ristine Maniel. I am the wife of

Monday, June 12; 1989 a CNR employee who may soon be unemployed. I am also the mother of a beautiful thr ee year old girl named Cryst al Dawn. We live in a mobile home which we just bought in Roblin. We are all real people with real feelings and I think it's about time the Government realized that. Something must be done about the proposed CNR job cuts. My hus band, Greg, and I are very frightened by this, as are other CNR employees and the ir families. "We are the people tha t voted you into office and I know that you owe us a great deal.

Now is the time for you to stand up and support the people who supported you. "Please try to remember tha t we are people whose livelihoods are being thr eatened. We are willing and able to do whatever it takes to stop this from happening. You are either with us or against us. If you are with us, stand up, raise your voice and help us! If you are against us, some day you might meet Greg, when he's standing in fro nt of you in the unemployment line. "Please help us. Let my daughter have the chance to grow up in a healthy safe place wher e she will know her her itage and her grandpar ents. Please don't let us down.

I'm sure you will be hearing mo re from me and other CNR emp loyees and their families. Thank you for your consideratio n." Thos e are the kinds of families, th ose are the kinds of real people affected by th ese massive cuts by the federal Government: two families in Benito; four in Birch River; four in Gr andview; four in Mafeking; two in Minitonas; two in Pine River; four in Roblin; two in Sifton; four in Chur chill; th ree in Cormor ant; six in Gillam; thr ee in llford; one in Pikwitone i; Pitt Siding, four; The Pas, four; Thi cket Por tage, one; Thom pson, two.

All of th ese com munities are going to lose people, worker s and the ir families as a result of the se callous layoffs because of federal Conservative policies tha t have been pushed forward by the Government in Ottawa, by the Liberals in Ottawa before them, and tacitly and quietly supported by this Conservat ive Governme nt in Manito ba. Tha t is something tha t they should not stand up and be proud of in this province.

They shou ld feel terrible about that and should reassess th eir policies of support for tha t kind of policy tha t takes bottom-line pr ofits first for Crown corporati ons, does not consider the history of tho se Crown corpo rations, how they helped to build this country, a vision of Canada tha t involved service first, regional economic development and safety as the primary concerns, and put them ahead of profits for the se Crown corpora tions. I want to speak briefly on the issue of health care in this province. How much time do I have left, Mr. Deputy Speaker, after all of this heckling and everything.

You might add a couple of minutes on. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Memb er has 15 minutes remaining. Mr. Plohman: Oh, th at is great -(Interjection)-you see, the Memb er for La Verendrye (Mr. Pankratz) thinks that 51 3 40 minutes goes very fast. Tha t is why he only speaks for 20 at a time in this House, 40 is twice as long. An Honourable Member: What is the point you are trying to make? Mr. Plohman: The point I am tr ying to make is tha t he said I better speak fast. I do not have much time left. Well, I have 15 left. It does not go as fast as he thin ks. Mr.

Deputy Speaker , thi s year the Con servati ve Government tells us that it has increased the budget for health care by $99 million and the y are very proud of it. We hear them talking. What this Government says and what this Government does are two different things. A close examination of the Budget reveals tha t the real expenditur e increases are only 2 percent when the total approved Budget for last year and inflation are taken into acco unt, 2 perc ent. How far will th is go in addressing the very serious problems tha t exist in our health care system?

Bed closures, program cuts, waiting lists, and despite all of this, the Government found the money to increase spending for public relations in the department in the last two Budgets by 25 percent. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the people of Manitoba want quality health services and a system they can rely on, and instead we have an $11 million Pharm acare increase to cover increases as a result of federal Con servati ve drug patent legislation tha t th ese Mem bers in this Government stood up for in support of the federal Government and, again, the federal Mem ber of Parliament for Dauphin-Swan River, Brian Wh ite, leading the charge on patent legislation tha t wo uld prote ct the multina tional corpo ratio ns and increase the price of dr ugs, prescription drugs, in this province.

The y supported tha t legislation and now the taxpayers are paying for it and the individual senior citizens are paying for it because of the increase in prices that the y said would not increase. •

(2100) This Government will not bring back the In Vitro Fertilization Program, the y will not help stem the exodus of pediatricians and mental health workers from leaving the province. The changes tha t the y have made, the $99 million, are not helping to pay for the home care bills for the people of Manitoba tha t need home care for senior citizens. The y are not reducing the waiting list at nursing ho mes, and I am going to tell you tha t a year from now Manitobans will still be waiting nine months for su rgery with this Government, for heart surgery in th is province and maybe it will increase, regre ttably.

There will sti ll be people waiting for tr eatment in our cancer clinics and families across this province will still be having to make choices about buying needed prescripti ons, med ication for their ch ildren or buying grocer ies. We have heard time and again how the Conservatives will make health care a top priority. During the last election, we heard them prom ise to halt permanent hospital bed closings pending a detailed review. How long did tha t review go, how long did it take? A month, six weeks, before th ey were closing hospital beds? We

Monday, June 12, 1989 heard th em promise no user fees, no new user fees for medical services, and soon after the people of north Winnipeg beg an receiv ing invoices for home care services. The se are just some of the prom ises tha t we heard from the Conservatives during the last campaign, and we know now all of the things tha t th ey have done. This Government's record on health care is a bad sequel to the Lyon years and we know what happened then. It provides, and I think the Liberals should keep this in mind, a glimpse of the cha os that would result if the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mr s.

Carstairs) had her way, who is the advocate for char ging for meals, for soap, for slipper fees, for slippers and tooth paste. Tha t advocate, the Leader of the Li beral Party wou ld have that kind of a system, a chaotic system in this province ii she were ever to get into Government to implement her policy on health care, and that is why we cannot let that happen. There are more than 1,000 citizens waiting for perso nal care home beds. The Conservat ives have increased Pharma care deductibles by $13.50 in the last 11 months .

Nur sing layof ls ha ve taken place in Winnip eg, Brandon and Pine Falls, and the y have resulted in treatment delays, patient transfers, and still others being left unattended at night. They played politics with an important AID S Awareness Program and within weeks of being voted into office the y shelved Manitoba's only In Vitro Fertilization Program. The se actions cannot be forgotten and th ey cannot be ignor ed by this Legislature.

As much as $21 million rem ains unspent in the Department of Health in 1988, according to the Third Quarter Report, of which a portion had been allocated for capital construc tion. What is particularly galling to Mem bers of my Par ty and our caucus and this Legislature, the New Democratic Caucus, is tha t the Government reneged on prom ises that were made and programs tha t were in place for new facilities.

The people of Dauphin feel th at and see tha t direct ly, a cancellation of the nursing home extension, personal care home extension of 25 beds that was almost ready for cons truc tion, the canc ellation in Dauphin, the cancellation of the public health facility tha t was ready to go to const ruction in June of 1988. The se have been cut by a callous Conservative Government who said th ey did not have enough money in their budget, and yet they had money left over in the capital budget and now the y have a slush fund of $200 million tha t the y have set up, and th ey cannot use tha t argument anymor e.

The y cannot use that argument anymor e. They cannot use it when the y want to argue that th ose health facilities cannot be built because of a shor tage of funds. They cannot use it when agriculture needs support; th ey cannot use tha t excuse when home care services need support; the y cannot use that excuse when day care and child care services need support and crisis centres and education, and the list goes on and on. The y will be rem inded of tha t month ly, daily, hourly in this House. The Member for La Verendrye (Mr. Pankratz) when he was speaking says he wonders whether I know what 514 agriculture is.

I think tha t is a very conceitful statement to make -(Interjection)- I would say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, tha t if the word "conceitful" does not exist, that it certainly would describe what he said. I think people realize what he is saying is that a New Democ rat raised on a farm does not know what agriculture is about, but he knows as long as he is a Conservative. He says, he wond ered if I need to stay in the House because I am going to vote with the Budget, like we will take your vote but get lost, we do not need you for anything else.

Tha t is a conceited statement to make.-(I nterjection)-We know what tha t Mem ber said. I wonder if he tr eats his voters in his constituency the same way, give me your vote and get lost. Is that the way he approaches it? Tha t is what he said to me, we know how you are going to vote so maybe you should not be in the House, do not bother staying here, he said, because of course I was inter rupting his train of thought and it was not that difficult to do. I want to take a look at agriculture. Agriculture cuts are terribly deceitfu l. I wou ld even use the word "deceitful" insofar as the agriculture cuts.

The fact is tha t in this Budget we have seen nearly an 18 percent cut, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in agricultural spending. (lnterjection)- I said I thought I might term it that. The Mem bers are worryi ng about some of the words I have been using. The y do not understand "conceitful" but the y seem to understand "deceitful." The fact is, agriculture has seen an 18 percent decrease, a rather huge decrease this year.

The y have seen a cut in a number of agricultural programs, in the Special Farm Assistance Program that was set up under the Farm Mediation Board to provide assistance to tho se facing bankruptcy and fore closure by the banks. We have seen cuts in the beef sta bilization and beef support because of the tripartite program. We have seen cuts in the Emer gency Inter est Rate Relief; we have seen elimination of the Emergenc y Drought Relief Program. Tha t is how the y have stood by their voters of rural Manitoba, and they say they represent the voters of rural Manitoba, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

If tha t is the way th ey keep faith with them, then I know tha t th ose voters cannot trus t this Government for any support in the future. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Mem ber's time has expired. The Honourable Mem ber for Kildonan has the floor. Mr. Guizar Cheema (Kildonan): I am pleased to have this oppor tunity to address this so-called, "Good News Budget. " As my Leader pointed out, the only real good news in this Budget is a tax break to Man itobans and we like it. We definitely like it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Mem ber for Dauphin, on a point of order. Mr. Plohman: On a point of order, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. My apologies to the Member who is speaking, but I really did think that 40 minutes went awful quickly. Could you please check your time, again. I understand th at I was cut off five minutes short on my speech.

Monday, June 12, 1989 Mr. Depu ty Speak er: That is qu ite possi ble. My apologies and if you wish we will extend you the five minutes. I am sor ry. Mr. Plohman: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I very much appreciate tha t. After being advised by some of my good colleagues in this House tha t th ere was five minutes less than I had been entitled to, I appreciate your granting this opportu nity. What I wanted to say, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, is tha t I had just started talking about agriculture and the fact tha t the voters of rural Manitoba have been betrayed by th ose people who say they repr esent rural areas of this province. They have had rather significant cuts in the Department of Agriculture.

The y have made cuts in some very important programs that were put in place, such as the Special Farm Assistance Program , and they have made significant cuts in support for beef sta bilization in this province over this last year, down from nearly $5 million in the previous year to some $3.5 million this year, about a 27 percent reduction in support for the beef industry in this province by this so-called rural Party. Insofar as the representation for their voters, I would say the y betrayed their voters with the agricultural policies and budget tha t the y brought in in this particular Budget. *

(2110) They played arou nd with the tax relief for farmers with regard to the School Tax Relief Program tha t was brought in by our Government. They claim that th ey have a 35 percent reduction in school taxes this year. The fact is, they do not have a 35 percent reduction and it comes on the heels of a 25 percent reduction, much of which went out of the province because ther e were no changes made, no distinction made between absentee landowners and people farming the land in this province.

The previous year, all of the producers in Manitoba, 99 percent of them, received mor e from the program that the New Democra tic Government had put in place than the one tha t th ey put in place the year following. We did not see the Liberal Party in this province raising these issues on th ese program cuts in this House, and I want to see the Con servative Government change their ways with regard to rural development in this province, in agriculture. They have neglected it terri bly in this province with this Budget, and the Liberal Party has to raise this issue over and over again with this Government.

I will be raising it, my colleagues will be raising it, to bring back the conscience of this Party, if they ever had one, for rural Manitoba because the y have betra yed th ose voters. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me just say in closing that we are supporting the Budget because of the cuts for families, the tax cuts for families. We believe that tho se are good cuts and that the y came right from our platform.

But let me tell you tha t we will not stop from raising the issues that we think are wrong in this Budget, and we will not stop from ensuring that Manitobans understand why this Government was able to bring forward a Budget tha t was so close to being balanced and probably should ha ve been this year, because of 515 Eugene Kostyra and his Budget and because of the lack of windfall profits from the federal Government and trans fer payments. Let them not talk about good management, let them not talk about ·mismanagement by the pr evious Government. That does not enter the equation at all. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Member for Kildonan has the floor. Mr. Cheema: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will have 40 minutes of mine, I hope so. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportun ity to speak on this so-called Good News Budget. As the previous speakers from my caucus have pointed out and my Leader has pointed out, the only really good news in this Budg et is a tax break to all Manitobans, and we like it. But tha t is where the good news ends. For the last one year, let me go back to when the last Session started.

This Government prom ised to enhanc e the health care system and the y have talked at great length about innovation and a new era of partner ship Mr. Deputy Speaker, the y have made the se promises last year. They have repeated them this year again, but when are th ey going to stop promising and start delivering the health care to Manitobans? Last year, the Govern ment set aside $500,000 to create the Health Advisory Network. This body, we were told, would not study issues. The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchar

d) admitted in a speech last October that our health care system had been studied to death. Th ose are his words and the Health Advisory Network would "provide a mechan ism for realistic, practical and action-oriented co-operation so th at we can begin to rebuild the sense of shared ownership and responsibility tha t our system needs." What has this Government got to sho w for the last one year and after spending $1 million now?

Un less we count a major demons tra tion at the steps of the Legislative Assembly, 500 nurses demonstrating just for the simple fact they wanted a simple place on Health Advisory Network and tha t place was denied. It is a shame. What kind of co-operation and partnersh ip is this? Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) has recently announced a health promotion program. This certainly is good news, so we must place mor e empha sis on promoting healthy lifestyles and preventing illness, but this program is too flawed.

Th ese funds, it appears, will go primarily to businesses to be used in the workplace only. This is only a part of the true health promotion program . What about seniors? Wha t about ch ildren , youth and unemployed and individuals who work for small firms? Is this the only way of addressing the health promotion program , just to go for big business? That is a shame and that lacks substance in the health prevention and promotion program. The Government is proposing to decrease salaries in the health promotion program by 1 percent, and has not allocated even a single penny mor e for other

Monday, June 12, 1989 expenditures. An additional $500,000 will go to external agencies. This $500,000 is to be used for health promo tion, but only for specific groups and this Gover nment is sitting back and waiting for an answer from the public. The y have no direction, the y have no policy of their own. The y are suff ering from a typical do-nothing syndrome, wait and wait and do nothing, but that is showing in all areas of the health care system. We do not have a policy which will address the futur e needs of Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker -(Interjection)-the Minister of Education (Mr.

Derkach) is saying from his seat tha t I do not believe what I am saying. An Honourable Member: He should be ashamed. Mr. Cheema: I think he should be ashamed tha t I am here to do a job. I am here to represent my constituents, and he is insulting 44,000 population in my area. I will rem ind them at election time tha t is what he is saying. I am pleased, as I was discussing, with this new found interest in health prevention and promotion program. Last year, it took them nine months just to print an AID S brochu re.

This year, they are again talking about outr each programs, but we have not heard a single step from this Minister's office about when the y are going to implement the outr each worker program. As we all know, tha t issue is not for one Party. The health issues are in the public interest th at we must act quickly as soon as possible, as AIDS is becoming one of the leading causes of death, and the only way of preventing AID S is through prevention and this Minister has failed time after time. When we are speaking of health promo tion, how about maternal and child health?

There is only $160,000 tha t has been added for this specific fund. Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I have repeated, we are pleased tha t the Breast Screening Program will be started but tha t was our initiative. We announced tha t four weeks before the Minister even knew about tha t and we are pleased tha t he did it If we read the report on the Health Pr ofessionals Education Commit tee of the Canadian Cancer Foundation, the y are estimating tha t it will cost approximately $2 million to screen women between the ages of 50 and 69 every two years.

How does this Minister and this Government intend to serve this population with only $160,000.00? That means the y will address the need of only 12 percent of the population of the women between tha t age group. How about the rest of the 88 percent? The y are ignoring it. I do not think the y know where the y are going. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me just go to another area which is extremely important for all of us, and that is for the Hearing Conservation Program. This year, it has been cut by 4. 1 percent and the re is only an increase of $2,000 in the other expenditure area. We do not know what that means.

This preventative program will actually have at least a 12 percent cut for the last two years. How can we provide a program which is so essential for seniors, essential for children who need speech the rapy services? We have to know at an early age whether the y will need treatment services. This Budget does not address the issue. Voters of Manitoba 516 will not ignore that, and that is why I was saying the tax cut was good news but the rest of everything is a complete failure. *

(2120) Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Minister for Northern Affairs and Seniors (Mr. Downey), I always had great respect for him. He knows most of the issues but this is in his area of his portfolio tha t the Hearing Conservation has been cut. He should speak to the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness). There is one good news in this Budget and tha t is the increase in the Budget for Continuing Care of 9.8 percent, and I thank the Minister of Finance.

Tha t is an important area because this program is so essential to keep the seniors at their home and to also enhance the Early Discharge Pr ogram. It would save taxpayers a lot of money for the years to come. I think that is an excellent way of putting money where it is really important. Let us go to the other line, that is the Gerontolo gy Program. The total money that will be spent will be $278, 900 and this will serve 12 percent of the population of Manitoba. This department is designed to frame what will be important for seniors. How can the y justify $278, 000 for a 12 percent population?

I think they are missing the boat here. Tha t is very important. How can th ey pr ovide with $278 , 000 for this Psyc hogeriatric Program ? How are they going to expand the day hospitals? I was listen ing very carefully to the Mem ber for Dau phin (Mr . Plohma n). His constituency has the lar gest population of seniors in rural Manitoba, largest population. He should be advocating-I think he is doing a good job advocating for his constituency- but still I think he should ask the Minister of Health (Mr. Orch ard) why the y have put their personal care home on hold.

Why are the y not given the new building for the health centre? Why not start a small unit for psychogeriatric care in rural Manitoba? The prime place we feel will be Dauphin, and we will do that if we get a chance. That is the real approach. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me just again draw your attention to the Minister for Seniors (Mr. Downey). As I have pointed out a number of times, about 30 percent of the beds in the city right no w are occupied by the seniors who could be at home or in a nursing home or in extended care facilities, but there is no provision in this Budget to address their needs.

That will save money for the taxpayers definitely if some initiatives are started now. We are not saying it is going to be of benefit right away. It may take a few years. There is a time to start that and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) should do tha t now. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us talk about the corner stone of this Throne Spee ch, the environ ment. The environmental health component budget only got a 4. 1 percent increase. That is after adjustment of cost of living. The increase is nothing.

It is a lip-service and I think the y are ignoring the fact tha t environmental health is extremely important at the work place, in ho mes, at every place in the environment. I think this is the one point maybe th ey shou ld consider next year

Monday, June 12, 1989 if the y get a chance, but tha t will be up to the voters of Manitoba to deci de. I think th ey have a judgment and the y will do tha t. Let us talk about northern and rural health. We have heard a lot tha t th ey are in favour of com munity-based health programs but, with only a 2.6 percent increase, how can we provide a com munity-based program ? I think that is a shame and tha t area has been ignored. With the rate of inflation which is about 4 percent, this actually amounts to be a cut in services. I think tha t area people will never forget.

That is the way to save money to provide a tax, to save mo ney for taxpayers to have a commun ity based . . . concept started as soon as possible, and especially when the health services costs are rising, you have to have new ideas, for this is not coming from this Minister, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am particularly distr essed about the mental health services. The entire Budget has increased by only 2 percent, less than half of what it will need just to keep up with inflation. Indeed the Budget is for $15,000 less than it was two years ago. How can the Minister of Health (Mr.

Orchard ) justify and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) justify the mental health programs of reh abilitation, tr eat ment and prevention can function within this Budget? Mr. Deputy Speaker, we have been calling the last one year for planning and constructive action to clean up the mess at all levels of mental health work. Ther e has been a minimum improvement but mo re action is req uired, mo re planning is req uired. The Minister of Finance is saying it is coming, Sir. Well, we will see.

Substance abuse is a tragedy, not only tha t it does waste lots of hours and destroy a lot of lives and a lot of homes, but this budget of th e Alcoholism Foundation of Manitoba has only increased by 1.5 percent. Tha t is a real cut. It is not an increase after inflation, this is a cut. People of Manitoba will not forget tha t and we will remind them every time we get a chance. Let us talk about Pharmac are.

This Government is planning to spend an extra 10.5 million on Pharma care, not to add to the new drugs or to reduce the price, but this money, $10.5 million, is what the taxpayers of Manitoba are going to be forc ed to pay for Bill C-22. This is the punishment for Bill C-22 and seniors will remem ber tha t. Let us see, we are get ting some increase in the Manitoba Health Service Comm ission budget, but we still continue to hear about the waiting list for surger y. There are 90 patients who are waiting for surge ry, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I would like to read one letter from a young fam ily.

This is for a 35-year-old man with a young family who has had several heart attacks. In February he was told tha t he needed by-pass surgery immediately. Four months later, this man and his family were told tha t th ey would still have to wait. If, after spending $1.5 billion, you cannot provide the heart surgery, I think th ere is some thing lacking. Tha t is the leadership and tha t is no direction policy from this Government. When the y took office last year, it was 45 patients waiting for four months. It has increased from 45 to 51 7 90 in the nine-month period.

Tha t is just for elective surgery, and there are a number of patients who do not even come to hospital and the y know the y have to wait further . Mr. Deputy Speaker, the y give the argument, the y are telling them it is going to cost money, but the y should ask thems elves-the Minister of Health should sit down with his staff and ask them how much it is costing per patient going to a doctor per week, per visit, for ECGs, for stress tests, for surgical repeat procedure, is costing mor e money for the taxpayers. We are forgett ing people who pay a large chunk of their mo ney for taxes.

The y are entitled to have the best care possible and, if we cannot provide it after spending $1,500 per person in Manitoba, some thing is missing. The leadership and the planning is not th ere. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitobans are concerned about reh abilitativ e servi ces such as physiotherap y, occupational th erapy and speech thera py. The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) takes pride that he increased staff by two at the Health Sciences Centr e.

Well, tha t is fine, at least some thing good came out of tha t, but by just increasing two persons at Health Sciences has not de creased the waiting period by not more than a few weeks. There are still patients waiting. When a child cannot get speech th erapy services, he is going to be a liability for taxpayers. He will not be as fruitful a citizen as others could be. We are denying him or her the right to be the best person he or she can be, and tha t is a shame. *

(2130) After cutting the Hearing Conservation Program and not giving the funds for the speech th erapy services, this Budget clearly tells tha t the y are failing time after time. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us see about the Manitoba Head Injury Association. They have a major concern, and this year th ey met with the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Oleson), I believe, and the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) and the y have not heard from them. Let me just repeat this sto ry, what this story is. Mr. Deputy Speaker, th ere are a number of pa tients who are oc cupying acute care beds.

Those patients could easily be in either rehabilitative services or in the reh abilitation program for head injury patients. We do not have that program and tha t in fact will save mo ney for taxpayers when you are occupying one bed in a hospital that is costing a minimum of $250 to $300 per day, depending on which hospital and what kind of bed you are occupying. We are doing a disservice if we are not prov iding the best care and the best services for Manitobans and this Minister has repeated ly shown that the y d � not have the planning.

Th ey are just waiting, waiting and waiting and let the system fall apart and then come as a crisis manager and tha t is what he is being known as outside this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, about five to six times in this House an important issue was brought last year for St. Bonif ace Hospital about the ob stet rical care, the maternity ward care. It was closed almost about 27 times until last Saturd ay. A number of patients have

Monday, June 12, 1989 been trans ferred or diverted to the other hospitals. Of course the y are low risk, sometimes ther e may be a possibility of high-risk. We have warned this Minister time after time, please look at the issue, but simply he is passing the buck, he has not made a decision. We hope tha t we do not have a disaster so tha t he will not be able to answer tha t question in this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, there is no provision in this Budget to allocate mor e funds for either hospital. What about the Seven Oaks Hospital?

The previous NOP Government just took the obstet rical unit away, even after two years of service. Tha t was ill-defined, ill-directione d policy �nd the whole North End is suffer ing. I think the y have to answer, and that ans wer was given to them last April. We are not saying tha t any political Party will have the right answers. No one will have the right answers for all the health care policies, but the re should be a common path for all of us to work so tha t we can save money for taxpayers. The money can be saved definitely if th ere is planning, but their planning is lacking.

Let me just go one step further . All the Honourable Members, most of them are from rural com munities. I am going to name some of the commun ities where we do not have a permanent doctor , Mr. Deputy Speaker, Altona, Brandon, Dauphin, Flin Flon, Gillam, Lac du Bonnet, Pine Falls, Rapid City, Rossburn, Selkirk, Shoal Lake, St. Claude, Ste. Rose, Steinbach, Swan Lake, The Pas, Thomp son, a number of other s. It is not laughing matter -(Interjection)- I am not making a political issue. I am telling you what is happening and you are not listen ing, your Minister is not listening.

When you go to your voters and you tell them you are spe nding $1,500 per person and you cannot even provide the primary health care, I think tha t is a sh ame. You have a solution right now in Manitoba. You have a doctor sitting right here in Manitoba and it will not cost more than $7,0 00 per commun ity to have a doctor for five years, I guarantee you tha t. Our Party guarantees you that it will happen, but you should have the will to say that we have a good program, let us follow tha t. It is not a political issue.

If we go the re tom orrow or any person visits a community, someone has a heart attack or an accident or a major disaster and it is happening. Why can we not just have a doctor per commu nity? We have a program. The Minister of Health said it was good , but he did not act on th at. It is already three mont hs. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us go to the other areas of shor tage of doctor s. It is a shor tage in each and every area, and we are not saying it is only their fault. It is probably not right now, because th ey did not create all the se problems. It has been building up for the last 10 years.

Leader ship has to be shown now so that it does not matter which Party comes to power. Still the y could show to Manitobans, after spending such a huge amount of money, if we cannot even give them the primary services, I think it will be a shame- $1.5 billion is a lot of money. The other day we raised one major issue in this House, tha t was the shor tage of an anesthesia specialty in 518 Manitoba. Tha t is a real one and tha t did not grow up in one day. That was said by my Leader very clearly, it has been building up for the la st 10 to 15 years. If we do not act now, next year it will be a problem.

To cancel 20,000 surgeries per year, it will be a disaster. It does not matter which Minister is there, he or she will have a tough time to face Manitobans. Wher e is the planning? Why do we have to wait for crisis after crisis? We asked the Minister of Education (Mr. Derkach), did you have a meet ing with the Health Scien ces Centre or Childr en's Hospital about the children's specialists leaving? In a way, maybe he is right, he said it is not his responsibility but still the fund is coming from your Government. The y still have the responsibility to provide the leadership so tha t the programs can be preserved.

The ophthalmo logy program was gone, it is coming back. Tha t is the good news, but other programs are fading away. Can he imagine seven children's specialists leaving Children 's Hospital, the only kidney specialist - leaving Manitoba, the oncologist leaving Manitoba, orthop edic surgeons. All the good people are leaving for a variety of reasons, but how are we going to att ract the others? We do not have any planning. If we are not going to have planning now, I mean all of us will suffer, including Membe rs from all sides. Definitely our children and our families will be affected.

There is not even a single person, not even a single human being who does not suffer in their life from some illness, mental or physical. If we cannot provide after $1.5 billion, we are missing a major action. Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are a number of areas where we can address the weaknesses in the present health planning. There is a lengthy stay for emergenc y surgery, for the cancer tr eat ment, for heart surger y, as I said earlier. But that can be addressed if the action is taken now, the planning is done now. But we are not seeing any action.

This year's Budget with the $2.48 million, how can the y address Klinic? Klinic has been waiting for years. Tha t is a political decision not to fund Klinic, and it provides a good service, it saves taxpayers' money. It is saving taxpayers' money by people who are providing hundr eds of hour s of volunteer work, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and the y are not helping tho se people serve the commun ity. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me say tha t, as I said earlier, it is easy to criticize but one has to have a plan. {lnterje ction) -Mr.

Deputy Speak er, we ha ve been convinced for a long time tha t the prevention and the health promotion must be the foundation of health care in Manitoba. My colleagues, all of us, and my colleague from Ellice (Ms. Gray) has been empha sizing on the health promotion for the last one year. An Honourable Member: She has been doing it in a very silent way. Mr. Cheema: But she is doing a good job. Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us not keep ourselves just for fancy words, but let us address the issues for a healthy lifestyle, such as nutrition, substance abuse, environ mental

Monday, June 12, 1989 health, occupational health, commun icable disease prevention and, as we addressed earlier, screening for breast cancer. *

(2140) Mr. Deputy Speaker, unlike the present Government, the Liberal Government would not use Lotteries monies to fund such important programs. It is a well-known fact tha t the Lotteries money comes from low- and middle-class perso ns, and you should never fund a universal program on the backs of a few people. That is not acceptable. What is going to happen next year? That is the major difference. We think and we believe tha t the program should come from general revenue, not from the Lotteries funds. We think that the home care programs and day hospital sho uld be the corn erstone for the seniors' program.

We think the personal care home program should be expanded. We believe that the commun ity based extended care facilities must be started now to save taxpayers' mone y. Mr. Deputy Speaker, can I know how much time I have left? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Honourable Memb er has about 10 minutes remaining. Mr. Ch eema: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I said earlier, the importance of the commun ity-clinic concept of health care delivery is becoming mor e important and it has been done in many other countries, in Europe and in Australia and in other parts of the world, to save mone y for taxpayers.

Tha t is not being done in Manitoba, and the example is the Klinic funding and no new initiatives for community health clinics. The Liberal Party would favour the com munity-clinic concept, not only in the ur ban centre but in the small rural com munities too. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other day the Mem ber for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik) was criticizing me tha t I said some thing which he did not like about the rural hospital.

I was at Pine Falls mor e then -(lnter jection)- 1 was there at Pine Falls and tha t was about six weeks ago, and I met with the nursing staff and some of the board mem bers and th ey will tell the Mem ber for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik) at the next election definitely. The y will definitely, because he has not raised the issue in this House. He knew about the Pine Falls Hospital. He kept quiet. I think he is keeping a secret. He is not serving the communi ty of Pine Falls/Powerview, and the y will tell him definitely and we will rem ind them.

We have been th ere a couple of times and we are going again in - (I nterject ion)-Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us talk about enhancing the Mental Health Services. We are still lacking the Mental Health Services in Manitoba as we said, but we would favour new programs. On May 16, we announced a policy for our Party and we announced it as and -(Inter jection)-the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) is laughing. He is again laughing at one of the issues. On Manitoba health issues, the Ministers are laughing, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

The first proposal is that re sidenc y placement should be 519 increased by at least th ree per year over four years at the University of Manitoba. Shor t-term programs in psychiatry for family physicians shou ld be provided. The recruitment program to attract physicians from other parts of Canada should be initiated, and the audio visual link between the smaller co mmun ities and Winnipeg should be started . Crisis shelters throughout Manitoba shou ld be established to provide services to individuals who do not req uire ho spitalization.

The se are the practical economical solutions, and the y are again missing it. We will do it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, this administration continues to suffer from a do-nothing syndrome. The y have taken no leadership and have not established the long-term planning that is essential if we are to preserve and enhance the quality of our health care system . As a result, the Minister of Health is lurching from crisis to crisis. Manitobans realize that he is a crisis manager but, unfortunately, it is Manitobans who are paying the price for his failures.

Every Manitoban has a ser ious reservat ion about the present health care system, about this administration's ability to manage it. Each one of us has the right to the best care possible after spending $1. 5 billion. This Government demo nstrates again and again their health care policy is ill-defined and dir ection less. This Government has lost the confidence of the people, and the Budget does nothing to rest ore it. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, a Liberal Government, under the dynamic leadership of Sharon Carstairs, can provide Manitobans with an integra ted, effective health care system to meet both fundamental and special needs. This Budget comp letely fails to address the pressing issues facing our health care system now and in the future. I cannot support it in all conscience, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Thank you. Hon. James Downey (Minister of Northern Affairs): Let me say tha t I am extremely pleased to rise as the Minister respo nsible for Northern and Native Affairs, Seniors and other responsibility.

Particularly, I am pleased to rise this evening to speak on behalf of the constituency of Arthur and the constituents of Arthur . I have had the privilege of representing them for some almost 12 years now. I was extremely pleased at the record of the Government from '77 to'8 1, of which we had the opportun ity to look after the taxpayers' funds, to guide the ship of state and to try to bring back into some line of reaso ning the operations of Government, and to deal with the deficits left by th e Sch reyer administration and the NDP Government previous to tha t 1977 election. Mr.

Deputy Sp eaker, I am pleased again to have the opportun ity to represent the taxpayers on the Tre asury Bench and to be a Mem ber who stands to support such an impor tant document. It see ms somewhat strange, the New Democrats stand in this place and try to take all the credit in the world for a good Budget. Can you imagine if we had not had the six years of mismanagement of the New Deppers, for six years of half-billion dollar deficits, if we would have been able

Monday, June 12, 1989 to continue on ·from 'B 1-88 without burdening the taxpayers with the kind of deficits ane inte rest charges that the y have had to, in fact, had to burden? The y refer to a slush fund, the Liberals will refer to a slush fund. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I dare say tha t we would be operat ing with a Stabilization Fund tha t could truly be the heritage fund that the people of Man itoba would be enjoying intere st income from, rather than the kind of costs tha t they are having to pay in supporting the deficit. You know, we have to bring this whole thing into perspective.

So I am pleased to be a Mem ber of a Government and support a Minister of Finance (Mr. Manne ss) and a Premier (Mr. Filmon) who have been able to take advantage of the situation as it is before us, but one just has to stop and think of th e condition th at we would be in if we had not . had to clean up again and pay for the experience of a New Democ ratic Government. Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, let us bring this whole thing in to where, I think, we are, and I would just like to refer to the Budget document, page 1, and again quote from the Bueget from which th e Minister of Finance (Mr.

Manness) has presented to the people of Manitoba. As he said last year, and I will quote, "Our goal is a com petitive and diversified economy which will provide increased investment and job opportunities for our citizens, and pay for quality health, education and social programs ." "(Interjection)-That is a basis from which the Conservative Party truly .believes we should be work ing from.

This Budget again contains th ree basic principles: maintain the services in health care and education, increasing tho se essential services to some 7 percent or more par ticu larly in health and educa tion, maintenance of essential services; at the same time doing what we said we would do, deficit reduction, because we firmly believe tha t until we get our deficit under control and reduce that deficit then we are going to continually burden the taxpayers and not be able to continue to provide the services that are so essential, because to continue to see a deficit increase would have seen the removal and the loss of essential services; thir dly, Mr.

Deputy Speaker , lower taxa tion and goodness knows every taxpayer knows how to spend their own money better than any Government. I do not care what political stripe the y are or who the y are, there is no one better to know how to spend their tax money than the taxpayer thems elves. I do not think for one minute that we accomplish anything, and this of course is the New Democratic style, you have to be attacking someone, th ey have to attack someone. It is the multinationals tha t are bad, they do not - (I nterjection)- I do not know why the Mem ber for Churchill (Mr.

Cowan) does not stop and think for a minute, what is lnco doing? They are employing people, the y are the main generating engine of a whole city in this province. Mr. Deputy Speaker, without tha t profit, they would not be here. He makes reference to the multinational corporations of which he thinks are always bad. *

(2150) I have noth ing against someone making a profit and creating employment. A prime example, and it is pointed 520 out in spades of our policy dealing with the sale of Manfor. What are we doing there? We are taking off the backs of a million taxpayers the cost of a money losing Crown corporatio n , and what has taken place? We have a Crown corpora tion tha t is now going to be oper ated by the private sector. Not only are the y going to maintain the current number of jobs the y have, but the y are going to expand job opportunity. It is a major, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That is where it is at.

The engine of economics, the driver of tha t has to come from the private sector if it is going to hav.e long-term meaningful impact. Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the y have to do it on sound environ mental princip les and policies. There is a mechan ism, a provincial mechanism, to make sure that is in fact carried out but tha t is what we truly believe, not as we have seen in the .past where we have seen the former administration go off on a $27 million adventure with the Manitoba Telephone System because the y wanted to create employment for their senior managers so they sent them off to Saudi Arabia.

Some $27 million later, at the expense of the taxpayers, we are cleaning up tha t mess. Mr. Deputy Speaker, look at what happened with the Autopac rates. In fact, that is why we are where we are today and where th ey are at. The public just would not tolerate their mismanagement. Workers Com pensation, it goes on and on, so one has to put into perspect ive as to why we are at where we are at today and of course the New Democratic Party, sitting with 12 seats, are using the reasoning that we are cutting taxes to the family and tha t is a justifiable reason. I mean, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the real bigger reason is that they know if the y went to the people of Manitoba that the people of Manitoba still remember what they did to the economics of the Province of Manitoba. Let us not fool anyone, and it is self-preservation tha t they are not going to vote against the Budget. Let us not kid anyone. But what one cannot underst and is why the Liberal Party -a nd I guess it shows inexperience, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I have heard one Liberal after the other get up and say how they would dearly love to vote for many things in the Budget.

The y would dearly love to vote for tax reductions, maintenance of essential services, increase in health and education by over 7 percent, a Stab ilization Fund. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think-a nd I am not going to make any personal attacks on the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs). After all, I do not have to because the most well-known Liberal journalist in Winnipeg is doing tha t for us. Frances Russell said it very well in Saturday's Free Press. I do not have to do th at. Their own critics are doing it-I mean, their own friends are criticizing them and tha t hur ts.

Tha t hur ts the Leader of the Liberal Party (M rs. Carstairs) and the Liberal Party far worse than me saying it. Whe n their own supporters or their own known journalists clearly come out and criticize them the way tha t she has, tha t has a far bigger impact and you can see it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, and of cou rse we know that the Free Press again today- An Honourable Member: Give them a little mor e rope and th ey will hang thems elves.

Monday, June 12, 1989 Mr. Downey: That is precisely what is happening. We have a pretty good underst anding of our rural voters and our Conservative voters, our city and northern voters, where they are coming from, and I do not expect tha t to change a whole lot in the next few months or the next few years. One cannot take anyth ing for grant ed. One has to continue to produce policy, tax relief as we have done on farm land for the education taxes, reduce the personal income taxes as we have done, continue to introduce progressive policies as we have done to make sure tha t rural commun ities grow and develop.

There has been a lot of, I would call, shallow criticism because I really believe the Liberal Party -a s th ey are trying to and are going to entice rural voters to vote for them ha ve to be on side with rur al development, with communi ty development. Of course one cannot expect a lot from them when the Agriculture Critic at their convention in Brandon holds up one she et of paper and says, well, we have no policy, we will leave tha t up to the bureaucrats to develop. Tha t is not the way it works in the Conservative Government and the Conservative Party.

The elected officials truly provide the policy for Government. The Mem ber who got slapped around pretty good on one of the urban housing projects here the last week said, what have we done over the last six years? We have provided some pretty good alternatives and we are now delivering them. I would invite the Mem ber to read seriously the Budget document rather than to try and pick up on some small political activities tha t may encou rage his voters to continue to vote for him. One would want to read the Agriculture Critic's (Mr.

Laurie Evans) speech today to truly see what a Liberal is because I think he truly demons trated what it is. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I again do not want to take on a personal attack of tha t individual so I will leave the public to read tha t speech. He said, we are sett ing up comm ittees to do certain things, whether it comes to the Red Meat Program or whether it comes to the rail 521 line, the payment of Crow subsidy. What are we doing setting up comm ittees? We should have been doing tha t in Opposition, be ready for the day on which we would take over Government.

I ask him, how many comm ittees the y have set up because th ey are in Opposition and say th ey are ready to govern? How many commit tees have the y set up? I mean, comp letely contrad ictory.-(Int erjection)-We go back to Brandon again. He does not have any policies, so he has not been consulting. I cannot understand it. When you get a flashing red light, tha t means the same as a solid red light. You have to stop. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, let me just say, in the few minutes tha t I have left or the minute or two that I have left, based on the mai ntenance of service, in fact increasing the expenditures in th ose critical areas tha t we said we would look after, based on deficit reduction, the development of a Stabilization Fund, which is maybe a little old fashioned -(Int erjection)-no, it is not a To ry slush fund, it is a taxpayers ' reserve. It is not a Tory slush fund, it is a taxpayers' reserve which gives us somewhat of a bounce to the operations of public finance.

I am disappointed the Liberals, for political sake, cannot understand it. So when we look at the deficit reduction, the Stabilization Fund development, lower taxation, the removal of some more payroll tax, the lowering of personal income tax, I for the life of me cannot understand why the Liberal Party will not come to their senses and support a document tha t is good for Manitoba and public policy that is good for them. Mr. Deputy Speaker: ·The hour being ten o'clock, I interrupt proceedings according to the rules. When this motion is back again in the House, the Honourable Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.

Downey) will have 25 minutes remaining. This House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:3 0 p.m. tomorrow (Tuesday).

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	34-2-17b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	34th 2nd hansardpdf 17b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	922317f065d2fc3cca4237576129496c2e522d55

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