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October 27, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-27 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 27 October 2005 Jeudi 27 octobre 2005

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CELEBRATION OF THE ARTS

BLUES AND JAZZ FESTIVAL

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

UNION VILLA

EVENTS IN GODERICH

ECONOMIC POLICY

PROPERTY TAXATION

HEALTH CARE

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

COLLEGES COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA NÉGOCIATION COLLECTIVE

DANS LES COLLÈGES

ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR L'ACCÈS À LA JUSTICE

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

JUSTICE SYSTEM

OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR GENERAL

JUSTICE SYSTEM

OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR GENERAL

JUSTICE SYSTEM

DEFERRED VOTES

Throne speech debate

VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

WATER QUALITY

BORDER SECURITY

WATER QUALITY

ECONOMIC POLICY

TRADE DEVELOPMENT

COMMUNITY COLLEGES

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

HEALTHIER SCHOOLS STRATEGY

INFECTIOUS DISEASE CONTROL

PETITIONS

MINIMUM WAGE

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

MACULAR DEGENERATION

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

MANDATORY RETIREMENT

WILDLIFE PROTECTION

FILM RELEASE

FALLSVIEW CASINO

HIGHWAY 35

GO TRANSIT TUNNEL

ONTARIO PHARMACISTS

PROSTATE CANCER

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

ENDING MANDATORY RETIREMENT

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

POUR ÉLIMINER LA RETRAITE

OBLIGATOIRE

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

Mr. Parsons moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 5,

An Act to Amend the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to name a portion of Highway 62 and Highway 33 the Hastings and Prince Edward

Regiment Memorial Highway / Projet de loi 5, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement des voies publiques et des transports en commun pour nommer une

section des routes 62 et 33 route

commémorative Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Pursuant to standing order 96, Mr. Parsons, you have up to 10 minutes.

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): Before I start, I would like to introduce five guests we have with us in the members' east gallery

who are representatives of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment: Joe Schamerhorn, Merv Rowan, Jacqueline Rowan, Bob Wigmore and John Sherry. I would ask you to join me in welcoming them.

I am quite convinced that in this country we do not flag-wave enough. We have the world's greatest country, and we do not recognize often enough the work, the

pain and the sacrifice that has gone into making it that. So with this being the Year of the Veteran, I think this is an ideal opportunity for us to recognize on a permanent basis the cost that has

been paid for our country.

We talk about our freedom, but freedom isn't free. Freedom required sacrifices by innumerable people, and I would suggest the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment

ranks at the top as representative of those who have made a difference, not just in our province or our country but in our world.

Another thing struck me too, I will confess, in the last few years. I noticed that one of the Legion magazines I received, which contained the notice of my own

father's death, listed hundreds and hundreds of other World War II veterans who have left us. So as we watch us move from one generation to another, it becomes increasingly important that we

establish a permanent provincial record in memory of the sacrifice of others.

There are many things I don't understand in this world, but two of them that have struck me relating to this issue are: I cannot imagine our world if the allies

had lost; I cannot imagine what our lives would be like in this country and others; and I also cannot imagine being 18 or 19 years old in 1939 and making a decision to enlist, not knowing what that

would ultimately entail, but knowing that these young people possessed so much love for their country that they willingly volunteered by the thousands. We don't appreciate that now, the sacrifice

that was made by these young people.

There are innumerable individuals -- I keep saying Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, but quite frankly we call it the Hasty P's and that is a sign of great

affection -- who have done heroic acts. But I believe that when they enlisted, they became heroes. At that instant in time, they were prepared to put the needs of their community and their province

and their country ahead of their own personal lives. I would suggest that every individual who has ever been associated with the Hasty P's is a hero.

The history of the Hasty P's goes back a long time. In the year 1800, the first regiment of Prince Edward militia was raised. Four years later, the first

regiment of the Hastings militia was raised. That's how far back in time this regiment has provided service to this country. In World War I, although we had regiments, the powers that be made the

decision to break them into small numbered groups and send them overseas, so there is no record of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, but there certainly were hundreds and thousands of

individuals who served in various numbered units and provided exemplary service to our country at the Somme, at Ypres, at Hill 70 -- it goes on and on.

When they returned, they returned to a country that did not significantly recognize the need to maintain healthy armed forces. It has been said by those far

wiser than me, and I concur, that the best way to ensure peace is to have a well-prepared military. During some very difficult years when our armed forces were neglected, there were dozens and

hundreds of individuals who continued to train in the militia, with inferior equipment and inferior uniforms, at great personal sacrifice, so that when World War II broke out, we had in place the

backbone of the forces we needed to defend our freedom.

In World War II, although the regimental name was Hastings and Prince Edward, there were individuals from all over the country who enlisted and became members of

this regiment, but the vast majority came really from the Bancroft to Picton area, through the two counties. They served with great distinction overseas. They were involved initially in a poorly

thought-out decision by individuals in Ottawa to send them to France ill-prepared. They returned to England and trained there, and then in July 1943 the Hasty P's landed in Sicily. At that time,

they won eight battle honours. Battle honours are not given lightly or frivolously.

There is a book out by Farley Mowat called The Regiment, the regiment in which Mr. Mowat himself served. I'd like to read a quotation from him that refers to the

beginning of the war, when they were ill-prepared. This country was ill-prepared for war, and he says:

"Yet there was one hidden weapon: one ignored by most of those who calculated the military strength, ignored by the very government itself -- and yet a weapon

infinitely more powerful, and more ready than any in the official armoury. It was called the militia."

After Sicily, this corps of individuals, plus the hundreds who came forward to volunteer, landed in Italy on September 3, 1943, and battled -- and I don't use

the word lightly -- battled up the Italian peninsula, winning 20 battle honours at an absolutely fearful cost. In 1945, the regiment was then moved and took

part in the liberation of Holland.

There can be some question as to why we shouldn't pass this bill and name this highway. I can think of only two reasons. One is, as some may suggest, the cost.

Given the sacrifice, that's not a point I'm going to argue; it does not merit an argument. The second one is that this bill may cause other regiments or squadrons to ask for the same thing, and my

response is, I hope so. We need to be reminded daily -- absolutely daily. This bill would allow for signs so that our young people, on the way to school, every day would pass signs reminding them

of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment and what they've done. The regiment is not gone. This is not a dead regiment. There are people who continue in the militia to be ready, if needed.

We have so many attractions in our everyday life. There must be temptations to do other things. The individuals who devote their time now are heroes. Our young

people need heroes. Movie stars and rock stars are not heroes. Heroes are those who formed our country and helped to preserve it.

At the end of World War II, it appeared that perhaps the days of the military were over, that they were no longer needed and that the Hasty P's were no longer

needed. I would like to read from the end of the book about what happened at the end of World War II when the troops returned from Europe. The

preamble to this is saying that the regiment is dead,

and Farley Mowat wrote:

"It was not dead.

"Nor, in the years ahead, shall it ever die and be forgotten. In the rock ridges of Hastings the men who go to the mines, and to the lumber mills, and to the

clap-board cabins, are not dead. In the broad and vivid fields of Prince Edward the men who go to the lowing cattle; to the budding orchards and to the warm stone houses are not dead.

"And in the day of need these men shall come again, as they have always come, to build anew out of their flesh and spirit that entity which is the living symbol

of their strength -- that living home which is -- The Regiment."

I ask for support to recognize the very reason why this Legislature is able to sit here today and debate in total freedom: because of the sacrifice, those who

gave the supreme sacrifice, those who came back but came back different people, having seen things that you and I don't understand, and having had their lives and their families lives altered. The

very least we can do as an honour to these individuals is to strike a living memorial to their contribution to our province.

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): Thank you very much for giving me the time this morning. I want to commend the member for

introducing this bill to the Legislature. I know Mr. Parsons to be a committed person of great passion when he takes on a cause, and I certainly want to indicate that we will be supporting this

bill to rename portions of Highway 62 and Highway 33 the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment Memorial Highway. I also want to welcome members of the regiment who are here this morning and thank

them for joining us.

Mr. Parsons articulated how he felt that we don't do enough in this country, in this province, to honour those who have sacrificed so much so that we may be

free, as he said, to debate matters such as this in this Legislature or anywhere else in this country. I can tell you that I share that point of view completely with the member. I want to indicate

that we officially became a country in 1867, but it is said by many that we actually became a nation during the First World War at places like Ypres and Vimy, when the contribution of Canadians was

seen and known by the entire world. It was there that we stood as a nation, united to fight against the forces of tyranny. Of course, that was continued in the Second World War. Our veterans have

made such sacrifice. As Ernie says, they were boys. Many were not men when they went to war, they were boys who made a decision that they would sacrifice or be willing to sacrifice their lives for

the freedom of others.

So it is clear that we do not enough. It is not about glorifying the act of war, because none of us does and none of those veterans does. I remember when I was a

boy that we used to go to the Legion parades, the Remembrance Day parades. My father was a veteran of World War II; he served in the SD&G Highlanders. You know, most of those men in those

parades in those days were actually younger than I am today, and there were of course many older men as well who were veterans of the First World War. Nowhere in my riding are there any veterans of

the First World War with us any longer, and there are only a handful in this entire country. But the men who walked in those parades walked with pride, not pride about war, but pride about serving

their country, and they had every reason to be justified in that pride.

When I have the honour of joining the remaining veterans in those parades today as a member of provincial Parliament, many of those men are still there, but

they're old men now. They're not young men any more, they're old men. They walk slower, they don't march with the same power and strength that they used to, but they still have that same pride on

their faces of having served their country. That is something that I think we all need to take note of, because as those men slowly but surely leave us, we have to have these permanent memorials to

their work and their sacrifice, not only in this province but in this country.

When I talk to those veterans, they know the tremendous risks that were taken when they enlisted for those battles overseas and their service overseas. But to a

man, every one of them would do it again if asked to serve again because of the importance of defending freedom and liberty against the forces of Nazi tyranny.

As we enter constituency week, which will be Remembrance Day week, this House does not sit, and I know that members of this House on all sides will be visiting

Legions and memorial services in their constituencies, because it's an opportunity for us -- and I view it not only as an opportunity, but an obligation -- to clearly state unequivocally our

appreciation and our thanks for the sacrifice and the efforts they made for our sakes. No sitting member left in this Legislature could have been a veteran of either one of those wars, so it is our

opportunity to thank them for something that we could not possibly understand in the way that they do, and the sacrifice they were willing to make.

I think it is important that I mention these very wonderful occasions when we put aside the partisanship of this House to draw together and be unified, as our

men were in those wars, and say this is something that not only can we all support but we must support. As Mr. Parsons said, there are only a couple of reasons why anyone could oppose. When you

look at the cost, how could we ever repay those people who were willing to make, and many who did make, that ultimate sacrifice, who have not marched in those Remembrance Day parades because they

didn't come home?

So not only on November 11 but every day of the year and in this, the Year of the Veteran, it is so appropriate for my colleague to bring this bill to the

Legislature, and I certainly trust it will receive the support it deserves.

Speaking of the non-partisanship, I recall that last year I brought a private member's motion to this House, unanimously supported by this chamber, renaming a

bridge in my riding after a police officer, Senior Constable Phil Shrive, who was killed in the line of duty. Again, on that day there was no partisanship. It wasn't a divided House, it was a House

united, and I trust we will have that today as well.

I want to read a poem that was written by Major Alex Campbell, who was a member of the Hasty P's, as they are affectionately known. It's called Prayer Before

Battle. Major Campbell wrote this during a lull in battle, and he was later killed in Ortona.

When `neath the rumble of the guns,

I lead my men against the Huns,

`Tis then I feel so all alone and weak and scared,

And oft I wonder how I dared

Accept the task of leading men.

I wonder, worry, fret, and then I pray,

Oh God! Who promised oft

To humble men a listening ear,

Now in my spirit's troubled state,

Draw near, dear God, draw near, draw near.

Make me more willing to obey,

Help me to merit my command,

And if this be my fatal day,

Reach out, Oh God, Thy guiding hand,

And lead me down that deep, dark vale.

These men of mine must never know

How much afraid I really am,

Help me to lead them in the fight

So they will say, "He was a man."

As I said, that was written by Major Alex Campbell, a member of the Hasty P's.

If I can reiterate, this is only one small but important act, one small but highly symbolic and worthy deed on the part of the honourable member, to bring this

matter to the Legislature so we can support it united and ensure that this highway -- and hopefully, as time goes on, many, many portions of our highways -- can be named in honour of such great

people so that when my children, and grandchildren, if we're so blessed, and other people yet unborn travel the highways of this province, they will take notice and they will remember the great men

who offered those sacrifices.

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I rise today and commend the member for Prince Edward-Hastings for the bill he has brought forward. The

naming of a highway seems to me to be wonderful. I just wish that all of us could do even more than what he is suggesting, but this is a wonderful thing: the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment

Memorial Highway.

As has been said by other speakers, this is the Year of the Veteran. This is the year that so many people are starting to look back at the history: the history

of the First World War, the history of the Second World War, of Korea and the police actions. It is a time when Canadians are starting to appreciate and understand, I believe, in a way that they

have not for a generation, the significant role that veterans and those who fought for this country have played, the role they have in our freedom, the role they have in our democracy, the role

they have in the building of Ontario and of Canada.

It is wonderful to see this, because it was only some 10 or 15 years ago, when I was a relatively new member of the Royal Canadian Legion, when I was inducted

into the Legion and marched forward and became an associate member, that many veterans there lamented that people had forgotten or were forgetting the sacrifice that so many of them had made. They

talked to me about the kids not understanding in the schools any more, that the history wasn't taught, that they were afraid people would forget, that a generation or generations would go by and no

one would remember about the Canadians' role in the Second World War, their fighting for freedom.

I'm very happy today with what has happened, because the federal government, the provincial government, school boards across the country, literally everyone, is

starting to recognize these veterans for who and what they were. They are starting to recognize the sacrifices of those who died. They are starting to know of the great battles. They are starting

to know how an entire continent was liberated.

As I said, it was about 15 years ago that I was approached by a member of the Royal Canadian Legion, Branch 10, Todmorden branch in East York, and was asked to

become a member. I had really not given it much thought before that time, to tell you the truth. I had never really given thought to being a member of the Royal Canadian Legion, but I was eligible

to be one because my father had been a soldier. I took them up on their offer and went there, and it has been a really remarkable experience to me throughout all of these years to go and sit with

the Legionnaires, to talk to them about their struggles, about their dreams, about their goals, about their hopes, and to see even to this day, when the average age in my Legion branch is 83 --

that's the average age of those who were veterans of the Second World War. Some are older and a few are younger -- some of those who were in Korea are a little younger than that -- but the average

age of those who actually put on a uniform and were full-fledged members is 83 years of age.

I've talked to them about their experiences and it has reminded me so often of things my father told me when I was a boy. He did not ever glorify war. He never

told me much about too many of the battles or people who died, but he did talk about going to many places. He talked often about the Hasty P's -- that's what he called them. I don't think I even

knew that they were the Hastings and Prince Edward group; they were just the Hasty P's. He talked about them because he was in many of the same places that they were. He was in Sicily and Italy and

France and North Africa and Germany, and he was there at the liberation of Holland. He spoke highly of the Hasty P's, about their bravery. He spoke about the liberation. He spoke about people

who were thankful for what all of the Canadians had done.

It is ironic, I think today, that after the war he came back, and we lived in Toronto and Scarborough, but when he retired, he went with my mother to the

Bancroft area, and they are still there. They went to the heart of Hasty P country. He lives today among and with many of those veterans. He goes to the Legion branch from time to time in Cardiff

and in Bancroft to be with members who I'm sure served with the Hasty P's.

It is a fitting tribute today that the history of Canada be told. It is a fitting tribute that those who sacrificed will be remembered. It is a fitting tribute

for those who carry the proud badge, the proud shield of the Hasty P's, that they continue to be recognized, that their regiment continue to not only exist but to flourish.

As the numbers grow smaller -- and sadly, they do. Sadly, each year on Remembrance Day, when I go to the remembrance at either East York or the Beach -- because

in my community there are two competing ones trying to vie for the number of people. I wish I could get to them both, but unfortunately they are both held at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the

11th month, and I alternate between them. But as I do, I see the identical phenomenon. I see men and women who are getting older, but they walk with the same pride. They walk with their heads held

high.

The crowds on the sidewalks break out into spontaneous cheers. People are thankful and the people remember. The schools are again teaching about our veterans.

This, in one small way, will go to help all of us remember the sacrifice of those young men and women all those many years ago, and the role the Hasty P's and all soldiers played in making this the

great province and the great land we enjoy.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): It's a real honour to be able to speak to this bill for a few minutes, not only because it's so important to

me and to the people of Ontario but also that part of the highway goes through my riding, so it's doubly important.

Just before I speak to the bill, I want to congratulate the member from Prince Edward-Hastings. I should also let the member know -- I think it's in the second

paragraph -- that Sicily is not a country; it's part of Italy. When you say Sicily and Italy, I would hope that --

Mr. Parsons: When did that change?

Mr. Rinaldi: I just wanted to clarify that.

On a more serious note, I believe there is more perspective to this today. As you know, I'm an immigrant. I wasn't born in this country. I'm very fortunate

that my father-in-law, who is a veteran, is still living and my father, who was a prisoner of war in Italy, is still living. My father-in-law clearly tells me about what they went through. The

challenge is that I can't get my father to talk about it. My father lives in Canada, in Ontario. He's thankful for the work these folks did because he lives the free life we all enjoy. So it is

difficult in a way, but on the other hand, it's a really happy ending because we enjoy what we enjoy today. That's a personal challenge I face, that I will probably never really find out what my

father went through when he was in Sicily. That's where he was captured, and it could have been this regiment. Nevertheless, the ending was great and we are all honoured to be here to talk about

it.

The other thing I must say is that as I get older -- I'm not that old yet -- we tend to appreciate what these folks suffered during those days. You know what?

As a young country, as a young province, we're not doing enough to remember what they did, and with initiatives like this, I know that my kids -- I have six and a half grandkids -- are going to

appreciate it. I know they will because I know how much I appreciate parts of history that 10 years ago -- that close, 10 years ago -- I probably wasn't that interested in. I don't know if it's old

age that makes you more interested. But we need to do more because we still have a very young country and a very young province and we need to do that. I'm delighted that Mr. Parsons brought this

forward. I totally support it and I agree that we need to do more.

In the minute or so I've got left, yesterday I was privileged to represent this province in Kingston, where the seventh stop of the Memory Project Road Show

took place. I had the pleasure of meeting a number of veterans who were bringing forward their stories, their artifacts, their memorabilia. This province invested about $200,000 to catalogue, from

about 500 of these veterans, their story, their history, their memorabilia. Our kids and grandkids are going to be able to flick on the Internet and get the whole story. I spent about two hours

yesterday with my father-in-law. My duty was to represent the province. It's a good thing I went, because it was really enlightening to see these folks tell their story, bring in their artifacts.

They were taking photographs so they could digitize them and put them on the Web. I believe the last stop is in Ottawa next week, but at the end of the process 500 veterans are going to be honoured

forever.

What we're doing here today with naming this piece of roadway that we travel is just another piece of the puzzle. We, as legislators in this province, need to

do a lot more. I look forward, during my tenure here in this Legislature, to do as much as we can to remember the folks who made us what we are today.

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I too would like to commend the member for Prince Edward-Hastings on his private member's bill

to name a portion of the highway in his riding, and to welcome to the gallery the members who came today.

The amendment has an honourable aim and recognizes the enormous contribution made by Ontario veterans. Veterans have contributed to their local communities,

their country and to the cause of freedom and peace around the world. I always say there is not enough done in our country to recognize veterans and to remember. Bringing forward an amendment to

the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to honour the proud history of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment is a fine way to keep the memory of our province's veterans in the

forefront of our minds.

As we approach Veterans' Week during the first week of November, we proudly wear the poppies that are sold by veterans and their families. Speeches will be

made in Legion halls and schoolchildren will gather in special assemblies. I know that I participate in the services in my riding for the entire week. The two minutes of silence on November 11 will

be observed by the people of Ontario as they gather at the cenotaphs, cemeteries, public parks, city halls and places of worship to honour the memory of the Canadians who died in the world wars

since Confederation.

Like the member from Prince Edward-Hastings, I encourage all Ontarians to recognize our military history long after Remembrance Day has passed. By naming these

public spaces, we are making every day Remembrance Day. This summer in my riding -- part of my riding includes zone F-4; some of the gentlemen in the gallery might know some members from my riding.

They had a two-day celebration in Lindsay at the armouries -- many municipalities had armouries back then. I also come from Mr. Sam Hughes's riding. He established the armouries there. They did a

great display. They had two days and they had a great public response. They set up displays and taught the young people, and I thought it was a fabulous event.

My father, Bill Scott, was an MP from 1965 to 1993, representing the riding of Victoria-Haliburton, and was the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of

Veterans Affairs. He was always a strong advocate for veterans throughout his tenure in the House of Commons. My grandfather Scott fought in the First World War and we lend his uniform out to many

places, on display, to help educate the public. Those two days in Lindsay brought back a lot of memories and they also gave us a chance to learn -- it was the 109th Battalion that most of the

members from my riding went to. Leslie Frost met the people from the Haliburton and Victoria areas over in Barrie at the training camp. After the war he decided to make Lindsay his home and then

went on to be the MPP there and the Premier of Ontario. We have a great legacy in our riding and we like to share that as much as we can.

Also, to mention the other people who were involved in the Second World War, it was a total war. Everyone participated, with scrap metal drives and Victory

Gardens; women went overseas and farmers left their farms and worked in some of the factories in our area and sent over supplies; they left the lumber camps also. I have 15 Legions in my riding --

not just zone F -- and I was happy to participate in the celebrations of all of them this year.

I'm pleased to see that through the reserve infantry regiment of the Canadian Armed Forces located in Prince Edward-Hastings, the legacy of proud military

service is being kept alive. The citizen soldiers who train part-time as these local armies take their valuable free time to work hard throughout the year at the land reserve. They participate in

rigorous training and may even risk their lives when called out on peacekeeping missions.

The tradition of Canadian military service is not without its dangers. Approximately 650,000 Canadians served in World War I and nearly 69,000 died. In World

War II, a million Canadians and Newfoundlanders served in the Canadian Armed Forces, the Allied forces or in the merchant navy. More than 47,000 lost their lives. More than 26,000 Canadians served

in the Korean War, and over 500 of those died. About 125,000 Canadians have served in peacekeeping missions since 1947, and more than 100 have died.

Not only would this act recognize the honourable contribution made by the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, which includes 31 battle honours for its heroism

and valour, but it would become part of our greater duty to teach our young people to respect and revere the debt we owe to our veterans.

I want to thank the member for bringing this forward. He certainly has total support from our caucus. I am glad he has brought it forward, and I hope to see

more of this in the future.

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I should say to Mr. Parsons that I think you may have started a trend here today, because it's such a

good idea. We are all going to want to name portions of our highways after regiments in our own ridings, and I think a very good thing that would be.

I had the honour just recently of welcoming, along with my colleagues from all parties, women veterans in this province here on Persons Day. I thought it was

quite fitting, in this, the Year of the Veteran, that on Persons Day -- I'm sure you will recall that there was a time when women weren't considered to be persons -- we celebrated the fact that

women did become recognized as persons, with all the rights and privileges that go with that, and we recognized the women veterans from both world wars.

We all have an opportunity to talk about our own parents and our own grandparents when we have an opportunity to talk about the importance of the incredible

sacrifices that you made for our country -- and indeed for freedom in the world -- and about our own history. I am from Newfoundland. I talk about my grandfather, who is long deceased now, and the

fact that he talked so little about the war. He was in World War I. We hear that a lot about veterans. You see such horror, that we can't even begin to imagine. His name was Frederick Emberley, and

my mother, his daughter, is alive and kicking at 80, and doing well. He was a wonderful man and he was profoundly deaf. All I know is that the ship he was on was torpedoed and a lot his mates died.

He survived and had injuries and was deaf as a result of whatever happened there. That's all I know, and that's all my mother really knows. We'll never know his experience.

I want to say that I understand when my colleague Michael Prue becomes teary-eyed when talking about the sacrifices that you made, because we know that we are

so privileged. I feel so privileged. I've had a wonderful life. I've had a wonderful youth, and as I get older, my children and grandchildren have a wonderful life. We know it's because of your

sacrifices, and we know that we cannot forget.

I think it was -- I'm trying to find a quote here -- George Santayana who wrote, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It's your

history that we have to learn from. We cannot allow, as we all get older and pass on -- and it's happening to all of us here; we're moving on -- that our young people, my children and my

grandchildren, ever forget. I would say that it's even more critical these days when we see war on TV, and it looks like a video game with these smart bombs and "poops" going off, and that's all we

see. But you know. You were there, and you know the horrors of what really goes on, and that it is a tremendous sacrifice. The young people who die or are coming back from war now to the US and

Britain and other places around the world with terrible injuries -- it is a tremendous sacrifice.

I don't think I've ever met any bigger pacifists than veterans, because you know that it should be the last extreme. The war you were involved in, and World

War I, were times when freedom, democracy and people's lives had to be preserved and saved, and you had to go to war to do that. We appreciate everything that you and all of those who aren't with

us today have done, those who died in both those wars and all the other wars that have been fought for good causes.

The other thing I want to say -- and it's been mentioned by some here today -- is the incredible work that veterans do in our communities. Perhaps it's because

you fought so hard to preserve our democracy and our communities that you recognize how important it is that we maintain strong communities. We see veterans involved in every aspect of our

communities. From raising money for the poor and for people with disabilities to getting involved in children's events, veterans are there, everywhere.

I have to say, as Mr. Prue said earlier, that when I go to Branch 10, which is the branch in my riding of Toronto-Danforth, and go to the East York Civic

Centre -- yes, we still have the ceremonies at East York Civic Centre; even though, technically, there is no more East York, there really is still an East York -- the services that we have every

year on Remembrance Day are very moving in that community.

I find unbelievable and heroic the way some of these veterans are extremely old now. Some of them stand there, and it's always cold, isn't it -- the time of

the year? It's cold, and sometimes it's rainy. We politicians and other dignitaries are all dressed up warmly, standing on the stage for the ceremonies. But it's the veterans who are out there in

not-so-warm clothes, in uniform, who have to stand absolutely still throughout the ceremonies, in the freezing cold at times, getting wet, some of them are in their 80s -- I've seen some in their

90s -- standing there perfectly still, looking dignified; standing there, still doing their duty. They are proud to be there, and they are proud to come forward on Remembrance Day to be part of the

ceremonies that remind us all not only of their sacrifices -- because I find there is not much ego involved; you talk very little about what you sacrificed -- but their role in preserving our

democracy and our freedom. They want to be there, and they are there to show the world that we must care, we must always remember and we must never forget.

This motion before us today will help us to never forget. Thank you for this opportunity.

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough): It's a real privilege for me to speak on Bill 5 this morning, because Peterborough is the home of Moro Company

for the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment. If I could dedicate my remarks today to four good friends of mine: General Maxwell Clarke and Sergeant Tony Basciano -- General Clarke and Sergeant

Basciano both served from 1939 to 1945 -- and two good friends of mine, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Clarke, the general's son, and Lieutenant Bruce Anderson, who served very capably during the

post-war period.

Sergeant Basciano's is an interesting story: In later years, Sergeant Basciano found out that his older brother was on the other side, a member of the Italian

army during the Battle of Ortona. For him, he found out later in life that war was indeed hell.

Tom Brokaw, who some of us know as the nightly anchor for NBC news, wrote a book about his father's exploits in the American army during the Second World War

called The Greatest Generation. When you think of our contribution -- in 1939 we had a nation of 11 million people, and by 1945 we had one million men and women in uniform, the greatest

contribution on a per capita basis of all the Allied nations. Sometimes we forget about that because, as Canadians, as Ontarians, often we don't talk about it. But it's through the bill put forward

by my friend Mr. Parsons that indeed our younger generation will come to understand the history.

I always thought the most inappropriate remarks ever issued by a person in public life were by Lady Astor at the end of the Italian campaign, when she referred

to the people who served with the Allies in the Italian campaign -- as I said, most inappropriately -- as the D-Day Dodgers. A number of Canadian personnel, of course, came up with the song about

that to the famous tune of Lilli Marlene.

When you think about that Italian campaign and you read some of the chapters in a book by Ted Barris called Days of Victory -- I just want to refer to one

section of that book. Referring to the battle of Ortona, it says: "Also injured in the campaign en route to Ortona was a young lieutenant from Peterborough, Ontario. Fresh out of the University of

Toronto, Allan Park had joined the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, the Hasty P's, and served with the 1st Canadian Division through Sicily and Italy during he summer and fall of 1943. Just a

week before Canadian troops entered the outskirts of Ortona, Park engaged a German machine-gun position.

"`Allan and one of his snipers got right up under a German machine gun,' an eyewitness wrote. `Then, while it was still stuttering above his head, he reached

up to grab it. At this point, a German sniper, 600 yards away, killed the sniper who was with Allan and shot Allan through the head.'"

This was documented by a fellow Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment member, Farley Mowat.

It goes on to say, "The fighting in Ortona was like no other thus far in the war. Beginning on December 20," 1943, "the battle became a virtual `slugging

match' between the Germans' 1st Parachute Division and Maj. Gen. Chris Vokes's 1st Canadian Infantry Division, transforming Ortona `into a miniature Stalingrad.' The narrow streets proved too

vulnerable for Canadian tanks as they were easy prey for German mines or paratrooper raiding parties. The infantry battle lines became incredibly blurred. Sometimes, without realizing it, Canadians

and Germans were hunkered down just yards apart; on occasion the front line could be drawn between one row house and the next or between one floor and another."

That certainly highlights very clearly the essence of the Italian campaign: some of the toughest battles during the Second World War. Members of the Hastings

and Prince Edward Regiment distinguished themselves to the nth degree during that battle. Post-war, they went on to serve in NATO in 1951 and 1952. During the ice storm of 1998, reserve unit

members from Belleville, Cobourg and Peterborough assisted eastern Ontario when they were sorely needed to look after citizens.

Without a doubt, the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment has one of the greatest histories in Canadian military annals.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex): I am proud to enter the debate today in support of my colleague and friend Mr. Parsons. I am a son of

Hastings, from Trenton. I went to high school in Belleville and married a girl from Marmora, so that's why I decided it would be fitting for me to join in this debate.

Farley Mowat said it best in the book The Regiment, that I want to quote. With the children here today -- children; we're talking about these men and women

here. We're paying tribute to them today. I'm going to talk about what they went through so that we would have a free country. I'm talking about a

chapter called "The River of Blood," the battle

for the River Moro, before the Battle of Ortona: "At 2100 hours, in the wet night and in a silence that was doubly ominous, the men of the lead platoon descended the slopes and felt their way

across the muddy slough that was the valley floor. Luck was with them, and the absence of an artillery barrage played in their favour for the enemy received no warning of the attack. The platoon

forded the stream and began moving painfully towards the black shadows of the northern slope while behind it, the remaining two platoons came forward.

"Suddenly the tension snapped. A single enemy machine gun rippled into hysterical life and at once a dozen flares, some green, some blinding white, lifted and

hung above Able company. The signal was instantly answered by the muted and distant thunder of the enemy guns, and by the violent outcry of 20 or more machine guns emplaced on the high banks. A

shimmering curtain of tracer swept the valley and within seconds the enemy artillery and mortar shells began to fall in thundering salvos, their flashes outlining the scene with terrifying

clarity.

"There was no cover on the valley floor." Commander Kennedy ordered a retreat. The battle waged back and forth.

Later in the battle, "Kennedy, watching from a high knoll on the south bank, glimpsed victory ahead. But there was bad news with the good. A troop of tanks

which had descended into the ravine hoping to cross the river near the demolished bridge and so support the infantry in their assault over the crest of the far bank, reported itself hopelessly

bogged down. The loss of the tanks was catastrophic, for the enemy had many tanks and would assuredly use them for a counterattack against the naked infantry men if these should manage to scale the

northern slopes.

"In every battle there comes a moment when the certainty of the commander is shaken, when his doubts become agonizing, and when the weight of his

responsibility becomes intolerable. The commander who thinks of his troops only as ciphers is sometimes spared this moment, but Kennedy was not spared.

"From his observation knoll it appeared to him that Dog company had become too deeply involved on the left flank, and was in danger of being overwhelmed. The

failure of the tanks to get across made it seem certain that any local success which might be won by the infantry would be transitory and liable to be turned into costly defeat. Charlie company, on

the valley floor, was clearly unable to get forward to assist Dog, and the weight of the enemy defensive fire seemed to be increasing, rather than decreasing.

"Remembering that this was not the major battle but still only a diversion, Kennedy gave in to his doubts and ordered the two companies to withdraw.

"Charlie received the message and obeyed. Dog, with its radio out of order and all three platoons running hog-wild in the centre of a disorganized enemy

position, neither heard nor could obey, and Kennedy found himself in a terrible dilemma. His choice was this: to sacrifice Dog in order to preserve the rest of the regiment -- or take up the battle

again with all of his resources in order to extricate that unfortunate company. He hesitated for no more than five minutes.

"The battle that had been declared over, began anew.

"The carrier platoon, dismounted and acting as infantry, had been sent out to try to cover Dog company's retreat -- now it was told to cross the valley and get

astride of the road behind Dog company. Baker and Able companies were ordered to take Charlie company's original objectives. Kennedy himself joined Able company and crossed with it.

"Within an hour Able and Baker companies were across, had climbed well up the enemy-held slopes and had dug in with an unshakeable determination not to be

driven back into the thundering inferno of the valley."

Over six years, this brave regiment fought these types of battles so that we could stay the country that we are today: free, noble and brave, because of the

Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment. There is nothing more we could do than to honour that sacrifice.

The Deputy Speaker: Mr. Parsons, you have two minutes to reply.

Mr. Parsons: I want to thank each of the speakers who spoke to this bill. I was very pleased to see young people enter the west gallery,

because I can remember the war, not because I was there, but because of conversations with my father and my father-in-law, who both served. My children can remember the war, having had

conversations with their grandparents who served. We have an 11-month-old grandson. My father and my father-in-law are gone. For my grandson, I have an obligation to pass on to him. For these young

people, they don't remember war, and I hope they never, ever remember war, because of the sacrifices of individuals such as we have in the members' gallery.

We have an obligation to honour the commitment that we will remember. What we will remember will happen only if we take positive, concrete actions to ensure

that that happens. The Year of the Veteran is superb. The memorial that will be constructed in front of this Legislature so that all schools visiting will walk past and see the sacrifice that was

made so that this place could exist and represent freedom is a superb idea. But I believe all through Ontario we have an opportunity so that each and every day our young people, and us, will be

reminded of the sacrifice that was paid -- I say by the men and women who served but I'm almost tempted to say boys and girls. When I look at my own children and I think of when I was 18 and 19,

they were so very young and so many of them are forever 19 and 20 now.

I appreciate the support given by all members in this Legislature to establish a permanent reminder to our citizens of why we enjoy the freedom we enjoy.

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I move that, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario Liberal government enter into an agreement with

the city of Toronto to implement the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy, and urge the federal government to become an equal partner in this agreement as well.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Ms. Churley has moved private member's notice of motion number 3. Pursuant to standing order 96, you

have up to 10 minutes.

Ms. Churley: I appreciate Mr. Peter Kormos giving me his spot this morning because of the urgency of this resolution.

This past summer, I was appointed chair of the NDP strong neighbourhoods task force. The task force was set up to advocate for the provincial government to

become a partner in implementing the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy, a plan of action that was authored by the city of Toronto and the United Way of Greater Toronto, with help from both the

federal and Ontario governments. It's an amazing report. The report is "to stop neighbourhood decline and improve the prospects and safety of both residents and the city as a whole."

I understand that there have been some very positive things said about the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy by the provincial Liberal government in the

past months. That gives me and those who are here today from the local communities and front-line agencies optimism that this resolution will be adopted. The urgency is because December 2005 is the

deadline to have an intergovernmental agreement in place to implement the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy. It's important that we here today debate this and urge the provincial government to

move forward.

Today's debate and the vote come on the heels of a motion Toronto's policy and finance committee passed last week in support of this strategy. I believe it's

before council for a vote. It hasn't happened yet but I'm sure that it will pass. One part of this motion expressly calls on provincial and federal government support in implementing this blueprint

for neighbourhood renewal. This strategy cannot be fully enacted without these two other levels of government providing resources and reforming government policy. By passing the resolution I'm

proposing, the provincial government would be answering the city's call with a clear commitment to make this strategy a part of its new deal for Toronto. By entering into this agreement, the

province is also articulating that it is serious about playing a critical role and addressing the root causes for problems that undermine the city's long-term prosperity and safety. If they go

unaddressed, trends like the ever-growing gap between rich and poor and the rising levels of violent crime involving youth will continue.

The Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy is a plan to revitalize neighbourhoods impacted by poverty. Research shows that over the past years, more and more

neighbourhoods in Toronto are facing increasing challenges, that there's a scarcity of assistance available to help those communities improve local conditions and that if urgent action is not taken

to prevent and stop neighbourhood decline, all of Toronto and eventually this province will be affected. We're starting to see some of this now.

Despite the economic growth Ontario experienced during the 1990s, the prevalence of poverty in Toronto has increased in the past decade. In 2001, there were

120 areas of concentrated poverty; in 1980, that number was only 30. The rise in poverty is the product of different converging factors, ranging from the loss of manufacturing jobs to

foreign-trained professionals not being able to gain work in their chosen professions once they arrive here, even though they are promised they can get jobs in those professions when they come. We

meet them day after day as security guards and taxi drivers, doing whatever, because they can't work in their own profession. So they're living in poverty.

Another instrumental factor is that the cycle of poverty has become harder and harder to break because the infrastructure of programs that we refer to as the

social safety net has become thinner and thinner. In the past decade, the provincial and federal governments have cut social services that help people and communities regain their footing and then

downloaded those programs to cash-strapped municipalities that have seen their infrastructure funding cut at the same time. It's a downward spiral that we have to fix, and this report gives us a

blueprint as to how to do this, working with the communities. More and more people have been falling through the ever-growing cracks in the net rather than being caught by it, which is what it's

supposed to do.

The geography of poverty has also changed, giving rise to the inner suburb. As a result of individuals and families with low incomes moving to where housing

costs are -- or at least used to be -- somewhat lower, many of these new areas where poverty is concentrated are found in the former municipalities of Scarborough, North York, York, Etobicoke and

East York. Living in these inner suburbs puts people at an even greater disadvantage, because social services, employment centres, youth drop-in programs and community centres, which we have the

luxury of having here in downtown Toronto -- we fought hard for them for years, and had them -- do not exist. They are historically not concentrated in those areas. Having few local services and

supports makes it even harder to change those prospects.

I want to say, and underscore, that it is a mistake to stigmatize the communities identified in this strategy. There's a natural tendency to think that because

a community needs help, it is not capable. This is an incorrect assumption. I know that some of the communities that were identified in this report felt stigmatized, and some people in those

communities told me that. I want to say here today that all of these communities are incredible, with incredible people who are working hard to help themselves in these communities. When you go to

these areas, as I have with my leader, Howard Hampton, to consult with people, particularly youth, you will witness incredible community grassroots work that is very impressive. I want to draw on

just one example of such grassroots efforts.

In the gallery today we have members from the Bangladeshi-Canadian Community Services agency. This outfit is a result of local residents mobilizing to provide

settlement services to the diverse newcomer population that settles in the east end of Toronto. BCS has been up and running now for close to five years and it is completely volunteer-driven. It

does great work in response to the community but has very limited resources. The demand far exceeds its capacity.

That is what this strategy is all about: helping communities help themselves. What has been missing in the equation for so long is government commitment to

these neighbourhoods, because local residents and grassroots organizations need support so that they can expand the work and difference they are making.

When consulting with some youth from the black community, the Tamil community, we heard time and time again from youth who are working with other youth, from

high school students, from their parents who are struggling, some with two to three jobs, their kids in school -- the Safe Schools Act, which is not working for them any more -- they have nowhere

to go and nothing to do most of the time. What this report is all about, and why it's so strong and why we have to act to make sure that the provincial government does its bit in this multi-faceted

response is to put those resources in place, and it calls for working directly with the communities.

Mr. Prue and I were in Crescent Town recently to talk about this report and to say to that community that it is a fabulous community, it is a great community.

I have been to so many community events in that area over the past little while. It's a very active community that's working very hard to help itself. And through no fault of their own, they do not

have the resources, the community centres and the other community resources, to help them, and this is what this report is all about. It's saying to all levels of government that we have a

responsibility to help these tremendous communities, who are doing so much to help themselves, but they do not have the social programs and the resources to do what they know needs to be done to

help their own communities. I hope I will get support from all members in the House for this resolution.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I will be joining in this debate along with some other members from the Liberal Party, the

government, today. First of all, I want to commend the member from Toronto-Danforth for bringing forward this resolution, which basically calls for the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy to be

implemented and to try to get assistance from the provincial and federal governments.

I want to say that my background, and the background of the member from Toronto-Danforth and other members who are here today -- Mr. Prue is here and he

represents the riding of Beaches-East York, a former councillor; we served on council together -- we all went through the recent amalgamation of the city of Toronto back in the late 1990s. What we

really saw and were frustrated with was a lack of communication with the provincial government.

I think that's changed a lot nowadays. We've seen the gas tax, where a portion is going to municipalities. We've seen a proposed new City of Toronto Act. We've

seen the Attorney General and the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services try to deal with some of the crime issues in the city of Toronto. These are all positive steps.

There was tremendous frustration, as a former councillor in the city of Toronto, because of the fact that the province just didn't listen to us. I remember at

one point when it reached its darkest point. The mayor of Toronto at that time was calling the Premier a liar and Premier Harris was responding with all sorts of other name-calling, and at some

point the name-calling brought in other members from the provincial government. I think one of them was Chris Stockwell. I don't know who was the monkey grinder; one was called a monkey grinder and

one was called a monkey, and it was just bad.

We don't see that nowadays. We see the mayor of Toronto, David Miller, working very closely with the Premier, and they have a good working relationship. They

respect each other. There are challenges, of course, at the city level, at the provincial level and at the federal level. I think that we're moving in the right direction. Can we go faster?

Perhaps. Have we helped the situation? Definitely. Was the situation worse before this present government was here? Absolutely. We are on the right road. We are improving, and I think we need to

focus now on trying to do some things for Toronto. The report that came from the policy and finance committee speaks clearly of adopting a strong neighbourhood strategy to bring investment into

various neighbourhoods. Interestingly enough, a number of those neighbourhoods are in Scarborough and, in fact, within my own riding, so of course I want to see something like this happen. I think

there's a need for this, and I would support something like this that would let Toronto, Scarborough and Scarborough Southwest see better delivery of services and improvements in various other

things that exist right now regarding infrastructure gaps and other problems.

I know there are members present here who are not from Toronto, and I'm just going the say something about that because they always say, "Why do you have to

talk about Toronto?" There are only 20-odd members here from Toronto, and the rest are from outside of Toronto. This transcends all three parties, and it's an issue that I think Toronto members

from all three parties have to deal with. I don't think there are any Toronto members from the Conservative Party, but I know that the NDP and the Liberals have members who represent various

ridings in the city of Toronto.

Toronto absorbs various problems from other parts of the province. For homeless people from Timmins, or someone who wants to leave Timmins or North Bay or

Windsor or the Ottawa area, where are they going? They come to Toronto. When I had the opportunity to be a city councillor and I would talk to some of these so-called street kids or squeegee kids,

what I found out is a lot of them were not from Toronto. They came from other cities; they came into Toronto. Toronto had to provide the social services, Toronto had to provide the bedding, Toronto

had to provide the food and Toronto had to provide the support system to take care of these kids, these young people who would come down from other parts of the province. So it's not just a Toronto

issue; it's beyond that.

What we've seen in the past few years with the amalgamation and the fact that the previous provincial government really hammered Toronto heavily is that we at

Toronto city council had to deal with some tremendous challenges in trying to get the city up and running. I know the member from Beaches-East York knows about that, and myself as well. It was very

difficult to bring about a functioning city.

I could go on for much longer, but I know there are others from our side who want to speak to this issue and give a different perspective on it. But I just

want to say that I support it. I think that the federal government needs to chip in even more than they have, and I think that the city of Toronto as well needs to be serious about putting the

financial resources into this. The provincial government has given money to the city, has given the gas tax, transit funding and has given help to the city of Toronto, and all sorts of other things

which were badly lacking when Mike Harris and Ernie Eves tried to run this government and this province.

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I am pleased to join the debate on the motion brought forward today by the member for

Toronto−Danforth: "That, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario Liberal government enter into an agreement with the city of Toronto to implement the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy,

and urge the federal government to become an equal partner in this agreement as well."

I didn't realize the deadline of 2005 that Ms. Churley had mentioned, and wants it to be part of a new deal with Toronto. There has been mention that over the

past summer, and just recently, we've all been witness to the tragic consequences of violence and youth violence on the streets of Toronto. I don't believe that any member of this Legislature

believes that the status quo is acceptable. We all need to do more.

It is quite commendable that the United Way has participated in this task force, which helps identify those parts of Toronto where social services are most out

of step with the local needs. I'm pleased to see that the recommendations from the task force recognize the importance of people in those communities who play an important role in implementing the

solutions.

As I was learning more about this effort to identify at-risk communities, I was struck by how our urban and rural communities are so different in so many ways

but so similar in many ways. I represent a predominantly rural part of the riding but have been in Toronto on and off for the past 20 years of my life, working in and out of the city, as well as in

the rural communities in my riding.

It's true that communities across my riding and across Ontario have been struggling for years to obtain access to many of the services that some people in the

larger cities take for granted. While we're debating the need for targeting resources in Toronto, we should not forget the areas outside Toronto that are facing access problems. I have a lot of

groups in my riding that do a wonderful job of working with youth in the riding and in engaging more community groups in this long-term fight to make our communities stronger and safer.

I want to acknowledge Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Kawartha Lakes-Haliburton. I know that Big Brothers and Big Sisters were here last week. I was incredibly

surprised at how many members in this Legislature have been involved with Big Brothers and Big Sisters over their years of strengthening their communities and helping young people.

Children's social services of Victoria county; the city of Kawartha Lakes parks, recreation and culture division; the city of Kawartha Lakes Boys and Girls

Club has done a tremendous job and are expanding; the Climax Climbing Club -- clubs I didn't know existed until I really got into being an elected member here. Even the curling clubs in our area do

a great job of adults bridging to youth and getting them involved in activities. The John Howard Society of Victoria, Haliburton, Simcoe and Muskoka; the karate groups of Kawartha Lakes-Haliburton;

the 4-H associations, which are celebrating their 90th anniversary this year, but have been strong community members in educating our young into strong leadership and leaders in our communities;

Kinark Child and Family Services hosted their first water festival this year. They're all part of engaging youth and teaching them skills to become stronger and more responsible leaders.

I could go on with many. With the veterans here, I wanted to mention that we have several associations of cadets in my riding, the Girl Guides of Canada,

junior firefighters, many hockey teams, Scouts Canada, Brownies, Sparks etc. which are all engaged in the communities. I think they're examples of how communities need to become engaged.

It is admirable that Ms. Churley has brought this motion forward to stress that all levels of government have to partner with communities, if that is our

goal.

I was involved a little bit with Operation Springboard here in Toronto. They have 15 locations in Ontario, and they've touched thousands of lives of youth and

adults. It's a social service agency that's strongly rooted in the community with a multifaceted approach and a close relationship with the criminal justice and social service systems, given their

well-earned reputation of legitimacy and hard-fought history, working toward safer communities for over 30 years. I think there is 5% recidivism rate with Operation Springboard.

There are a lot of programs out there that we can certainly take guidance from. There was a program called Choices...Straight Up, an approach to crime

prevention, a very innovative program that spoke to youth in the communities. I know Operation Springboard mostly from their work in Toronto, but they have worked with over 700 at-risk children and

young adults. In addition to the efforts to curb crime, Operation Springboard hosts community development and volunteer programs that assist youth to find employment and maintain the positions that

they earn, which undoubtedly contributes to a sense of safety and well-being among all members of the communities.

I know that Regent Park is written up a lot in the newspapers, and rightly so. It is without doubt one of Toronto's most diverse and resilient neighbourhoods,

which thrives on a strong sense of community spirit. It was built over 50 years ago. It is one of the oldest publicly funded housing communities in Canada, with 12,000 people living in Regent Park

and surrounding area. They have rent-geared-to-income units, home to 7,500 people, 50% of whom are children under 18 years of age.

The community is rapidly deteriorating. Buildings need major repairs and upgrades. There has been a massive revitalization effort from the residents'

association. They need volunteers, and members of the community are coming out to help them rebuild Regent Park. They are shining examples.

To outreach to different cultural communities in Toronto is wonderful, but the solution to the problem of youth violence in our communities is not simply the

pouring of money into programs that address the inequitable distribution of social services and infrastructure. The solution also includes the need to send a clear message to those communities that

these crimes are serious and that there are real consequences in store for anyone who has a gun in the commission of a crime, and that's not something that's happening right now. Building more

recreation centres is a good thing, but a far more effective thing to do would be for all levels of government to send a clear and strong message that our society will not tolerate this type of

behaviour.

We've heard the government tout the grand plan for 1,000 more police officers on the streets, but we still have not seen those 1,000 police officers on the

streets. We have to create a safe environment so that municipalities can work with levels of government so that the communities feel safe.

It's important to support the principle of targeting resources to areas in need. The Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy is part of that, but we also have

to create safe neighbourhoods, and with individuals who commit crimes, especially youth crimes, show that we need strong penalties but that we also need to work with community groups to show the

damage young offenders do to their communities and how it affects people at all levels.

I applaud the member from Toronto-Danforth for bringing this forward, hearing its sensitivities, and we should all work together to help the communities be

stronger.

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): I am pleased to rise and speak in favour of the motion put forward by my colleague from

Toronto-Danforth. The United Way reported, in its report about the new face of poverty in Toronto, that in 1980 there were 30 areas of the then municipality of Metropolitan Toronto that could be

described as being poor areas, that met the definition of poverty. In the year 2001, sadly, unfortunately and through a great many factors, that number of 30 has jumped to 120. So there are four

times as many poor areas in the new city of Toronto than there were in Metropolitan Toronto just 20 years before.

People can ask why this has happened. I guess there are a lot of social, economic and political reasons why it did. First and foremost, housing downtown got

very expensive. It's an expensive place to live now, and where the downtown core was once sort of the heart and where poverty could be defined, that is no longer necessarily the case. Poverty is

now seen in what are called the inner suburbs, those places of East York, York, Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke. That is the new face of poverty. You don't see it downtown any more, although

you will still see, of course, poor people there and the homeless tend to congregate in the downtown core. But the real face of poverty in Toronto today is very different than it was back in

There is a reason for that. It is because of the expense of living downtown. The cheaper apartments and places where people could live were in the inner

suburbs. These are apartments that were built in the 1950s, through the early 1970s and up into the late 1970s. Those apartments became available. Although they're older, they tend to be cheaper

and people move from the downtown core to the cheapest units. They didn't go all the way out to Mississauga, Durham, York or Halton, because that's too far for many people to commute to work who

don't own cars, but also because those new communities have new and expensive housing. It's very difficult and there are not many apartments being built out in those suburbs. So people moved to the

inner suburbs and the inner suburbs were completely at a lack to provide for them.

Whereas all the social services and safety nets were downtown in the past, they're not where the people are now

living.

The TD Bank Financial Group called this "persistent, deep pools of poverty." How did these deep pools develop? People moved to where the cheaper housing was,

and there certainly are no resources. But I think politicians at all levels have to be part of the blame here too, because policies that were implemented in the last 20 or 25 years have not helped

the cause of those who are poor. There have been and continue to be cutbacks and freezing of welfare rates. There have been and continue to be a clawback of monies from the poorest of poor

children, whose families have to give back money that was intended to alleviate poverty. This province claws that money back and continues to do so. There has been a dearth of social housing built

in this city and in this province for many years. In fact, I think last year, the last year for which there are statistics, there were only 26 units of social housing built in the entire province,

and all of those were in aboriginal communities, not one being in the city of Toronto.

There has been, of course, the downloading of public and social housing units from the province to the municipalities, and in this case to the city of Toronto,

which quite frankly does not have the resources to maintain them adequately. There have been and continue to be problems with the school boards in all municipalities, but with Toronto being

singularly unable for a number of years to offer up their properties for after-school activities. This is changing somewhat and I am thankful for that small change. But for many years there was

nowhere for the kids to go because the schools, quite literally in the inner suburbs, were the only community centres that might have been available and they were closed due to lack of funding.

Last but not least, in a city as expensive as Toronto, the minimum wage, which was frozen for so many years, remains so inadequate, so preposterous, so

unbelievable. I question any member of this House to stand in his or her place and say -- a person who earns the minimum wage, works 40 hours a week, would take home approximately $300 a week

before taxes; that is about $15,000 a year. Where an average two-bedroom apartment is more than $1,000 a month, that literally takes all the money that a person who works full time would earn, and

if they have a family to provide for, quite frankly, I don't know how they do it. I don't know and I don't think anybody in this chamber would know how they do it either.

These are the problems that are faced.

The United Way listed nine communities that are very much at risk. Those nine communities they listed are Victoria Village, Dorset Park, Eglinton East,

Scarborough Village, Black Creek, Westminster-Branson, Crescent Town, Steeles and Kennedy Park. Since the writing of this report, four additional communities have been added. I want to talk about

just one of those communities: the community of Crescent Town, which is in the riding of Beaches-East York, a community, a neighbourhood that I have had the privilege of representing now for 17

years in one capacity or another.

Crescent Town was built in the early 1970s. It was one of the last large rental unit projects built in the 1970s, and it was built on a condition by the then

borough of East York that Crescent Town had to be self-contained. You see, East York didn't have any money in those days to put in a community centre for 10,000 people. They didn't have the money

to provide all the facilities and amenities that 10,000 people coming in to the borough at that time would need. So they made the developer of Crescent Town build their own facilities. Crescent

Town to this day has its own club. It has its own handball courts and swimming pool. It has a drop-in centre that is used by the kids. But the residents of Crescent Town pay for that themselves.

Not one cent has ever been given by the borough of East York or now by the city of Toronto, or by the province, to Crescent Town to upgrade or keep its club going.

I have to tell you that after 35 years it is very difficult to offer that facility in the way that it should, and the kids are looking for something better, I

hope, than a 35-year-old facility badly in need of some repairs.

That neighbourhood has been a strong neighbourhood. Over the course of all of those 35 years, there have been many changes. The community, when it was first

built, was just like most places in Toronto predominantly British, north European stock. Those are the people who lived there. Today it is a very vibrant multicultural community, and a very large

number of people from a South Asian background live there. It is in fact, I would suggest, an immigrant community.

The school that was once overcrowded has been rebuilt, and to the credit of the people of Crescent Town and the students of Crescent Town, that school, which

was always kind of low on the scores, this year, for the first time that I ever remember, was actually above the Toronto average. So, many kudos to the educators and to the parents and kids in

Crescent Town, who have shown that they can do it.

But they need our help; they need our help I think desperately. There are some youth problems beginning to manifest. There are many landlord issues, of course,

with the state of buildings that are 35 years old and could have been, and should have been, kept in better repair.

One of the members speaking earlier was surprised at why this is coming forward and why there is such urgency. I think I should read out why, because the

United Way task force set 10 conditions. Eight of those conditions that have to be met for us to alleviate poverty in Toronto -- and to start working on these nine, and now 13 or 14, communities --

are provincial in nature, involve the province.

Recommendation 10 -- I want to read it out in its entirety -- says why this is important:

"The task force recommends that the three orders of government commit to the following timeline for implementation of the Toronto neighbourhoods strategy:

"By December 2005, governments" -- and that means us -- "will have:

"(

a) established the intergovernmental table;

"(

b) confirmed the neighbourhoods for initial investment;

"(

c) identified and committed resources to implement the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy;

"(

d) established the strong neighbourhood investment board;

"(

e) established the strong neighbourhoods unit; and

(

f) established the local neighbourhood investment partnerships."

Of course, most of that hasn't been done. The city of Toronto has done most of that, but the province has yet to do it. Hence the urgency of this resolution,

because by December 2006 and every year thereafter, governments will issue annual reports under the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy. I believe the Premier has committed himself to do that.

We have got to get our act together. We have to get moving on this.

We have an obligation to our poor communities, we have an obligation to our city and our province, I believe, to make sure that those communities in most need

get the resources they need. In so doing, we'll build a stronger city and a stronger province. We will do much to alleviate poverty and much to alleviate violence if we proceed that way.

I am going to stop now because I want to leave some additional time for my friend from Toronto-Danforth, but I hope that this passes unanimously.

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I first of all would like to recognize the member from Toronto-Danforth in bringing forward this

resolution, "That, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario Liberal government enter into an agreement with the city of Toronto to implement the Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy, and urge

the federal government to become an equal partner in this agreement as well."

I'd like as well to commend my colleague the MPP from Scarborough Southwest on opening the government's comments on this.

We in the government certainly support strong neighbourhoods and the report of this particular task force, which I understand was filed on June 30 this year.

In particular, perhaps one of the highlights of the directed energies of this report is that 13 neighbourhoods have been singled out for particular recognition, and hopefully improvement over time.

One of those neighbourhoods -- number two on the list, I believe -- is Jamestown, which of course is a neighbourhood within my own riding of Etobicoke North and certainly has had its share of needs

and risks. One of the things about this particular report, and perhaps this overall strategy -- first of all, there's a great deal to say and not especially a great deal of time in which to say it.

As T.S. Eliot said, "Time present" allows "but a little consciousness."

I'm reminded of the motto of the French Revolution, which was, "Liberté, égalité, fraternité," which means, of course, as you'll

appreciate, Speaker, liberty, equality and fraternity. That, I think, is perhaps the ultimate spirit of this particular report: liberty to reach one's full potential, to not have constraints of any

kind, be they physical, emotional or economic; equality, again moving toward the phrase of Trudeau, "the just society"; and fraternity, or co-operative action between all levels of government --

something that is particularly called for within this report. Of course, we realize that it's only by co-operation at multiple levels of government that we can really further all of our mutual

interests. Certainly, we in the government support strong neighbourhoods, neighbourhood-building such as creating investment boards to better integrate service deliveries and investing in priority

neighbourhoods including Jamestown.

Now, with respect, I would like to just say to the MPP from Beaches-East York, whose comments are always very thoughtful -- I would nevertheless submit that

his negative criticisms of the current government actually remind me of some of the American generals who always seem to be fighting the last war. As you'll recall, Speaker, it was in fact well

documented that the Harris-Eves government led to multiple cutbacks and downloadings, the consequences of which we are now dealing with. In what respect? Persistently low incomes, widening income

gaps, of which multicultural communities are unfortunately particular representatives of, and the recent influx of guns and gangs -- as you'll recall, Speaker, I invited to respect and to honour

the father of a young man who was shot in my riding, one of three funerals that I actually had to attend, unfortunately, in my duties as the MPP for Etobicoke North -- and just the generalized

unequal distribution of services and facilities.

Now, there is so much to say, whether we're dealing with the $23-billion gap, which unfortunately resonates too much in the city of Toronto, particularly with

regard to new Canadians; the issues with regard the guns and gangs, which I'm pleased to see that our government is now moving forward on with, for example, the provision of extra crown prosecutors

as well as specific task forces that are devoted to this issue. In general, we need to, for example, mobilize our federal colleagues. The $23-billion gap is something that is also well-known and is

also perhaps publicizing itself throughout the press through Ontario. Ultimately, it's a gap that Ontario needs to have addressed, because a stronger Ontario, of course, leads to a stronger

federation.

Speaker, with your permission, I would like to yield the floor to the colleague, the MPP from Willowdale.

Mr. David Zimmer (Willowdale): Speaker, I've been involved --

The Deputy Speaker: Excuse me. The member for Oak Ridges.

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I'm pleased to participate in debate on this motion brought forward by the member from Toronto-Danforth, and I

commend her for doing so. I want to commit my support for this resolution. There's no doubt in my mind that all of us here in the Legislature share the objective of this resolution, and certainly

we would, I believe, all be able to sign to the objective of the strategy that's been proposed. Strong neighbourhoods are the foundation of our society. Strong neighbourhoods are based on strong

families, and anything we can do through public policy we should do as members of this Legislature.

Members have referred in debate to the important role the federal government will also have in ensuring that this strategy is appropriately funded. There isn't

much we can do without the financial resources to implement the objectives as set out in this strategy.

I don't pretend to speak for all my colleagues. As this is a private member's bill, they will vote as their conscience would guide them, but I will certainly

speak for myself and on behalf of my constituents. Although I don't represent a Toronto-centric riding, I do represent the riding of Oak Ridges, which is all of Richmond Hill,

Whitchurch-Stouffville and the northern part of Markham.

I'm one who believes very strongly that the quality of life throughout the greater Toronto area, indeed Ontario, largely depends on the quality of life within

the city of Toronto. In many ways, the city of Toronto is an indicator of the economic health and social strength of the rest of the province, so it must indeed be a focus for our government.

I would say this: I would encourage the city of Toronto, the province and indeed the federal government to give some serious consideration to an issue when I

had the privilege of serving in the last government as Minister of Tourism and Recreation. In that capacity, I had responsibility for a number of portfolios that related to recreational activity,

amateur sports and so on. One of the files I had asked our civil service to investigate was how we can utilize existing structures, facilities and infrastructure within our communities that are

perhaps being underutilized. A proposal that I had put forward we had designated as our open doors policy, and I refer to our schools within every community.

There isn't a community within this city, within the GTA or the province that doesn't have schools, be they public or secondary schools. These are facilities

that have been paid for by the citizens of the city and the province. They should be the centre, in many ways, of our communities. The vision I had at the time was that every school be considered a

community centre. There are gymnasiums, there are all kinds of facilities that can be utilized by investing in a program that opens the doors of these facilities. Think about it: the number of our

young people who are on the street, having to hang out in malls, walking by a school that has a gymnasium and all kinds of facilities because the doors are locked. They are locked in the afternoon

and on the weekends.

I would call on the government to seriously consider throwing open those doors. Let's make those schools the centres of our communities. Invest the dollars

into those facilities so that in fact they can be utilized by the members of our community. I know the government is moving in that direction, and I have complimented the Honourable Jim Bradley for

taking up on that initiative that we had begun. We have had those discussions.

Laughter.

Mr. Klees: Honourable members are laughing. Speak to the minister. We have had that discussion. He knows full well that was an initiative that

was very close to my heart in terms of bringing it forward, and I commend the government for doing that. I know that we in our party will stand behind programs that will, in a substantive way,

improve the quality of life for people in the city of Toronto, especially immigrants.

In closing, I want to say this: If there's anything we can do to enhance the quality of life, particularly for the immigrant community in the city of Toronto,

it's to give meaningful focus to ensuring that foreign-trained professionals and people who come to this country with trade skills have the opportunity to put those into practice and to earn a

living for themselves and their families.

Mr. Zimmer: I'm pleased to rise in support of this motion. It's time for action here in the city of Toronto on these issues.

Let me just lay out a little bit of the background here. A couple of years ago -- I think it was about three years ago that I got involved in this -- there was

the Toronto City Summit Alliance report, which very early on called for action on our neighbourhoods that require extra attention. That group produced a report entitled Enough Talk. That was a

significant choice of title -- Enough Talk -- the implication being that we've talked about this for years and years,and we have to move forward. That Toronto City Summit Alliance set up a strong

neighbourhoods task force to come up with some recommendations, recognizing that we've talked about this enough and it's time to move forward. Twenty-two community leaders, the United Way, the

corporate world, the community world and political leaders from the province released a report wherein they identified 13 neighbourhoods in Toronto that required, in their opinion, some real help

to get themselves moving, to address the problems they face in terms of poverty, community services, crime, problems with children, education and all those problems. I read that report over

carefully.

I must say that I had some sense even before the report was released about the issues the city was facing. For a number of the years, I was chairman of the

Toronto Community Housing Corp. That's the social housing provider here in the city of Toronto, with 164,000 tenants spread over 61,000 or 62,000 units. We saw first-hand at that board the problems

these 13 neighbours were facing in Toronto. We virtually had residents and apartment building tenants living in all of those neighbourhoods. Our board, our staff, saw first-hand what was going on.

If you had been able to sit with me at some of those board meetings, your heart would cry out for redress of some of the issues we had to deal with.

I was very privileged to serve on that board with Mr. Nick Volk, who's here in the members' gallery. Nick, would you stand up? Nick Volk was a very

distinguished member of the Toronto Community Housing Corp. He served Habitat for Humanity here in Toronto and for the past 30 years -- that's more than the longest-serving member of this

Legislature has sat in this body -- Nick Volk has been an advocate for redress in Toronto neighbourhoods. I congratulate him for this. Nick Volk took me under his wing at the Toronto Community

Housing Corp. and helped me to understand the problems that were facing our neighbourhoods.

What does the report entail? The report has three elements, three key components to its strategy: We need an intergovernmental agreement to ensure coordinated

investment; we need commitment and agreement on target resources and how to allocate those resources; and we need to have a mechanism whereby if the scope of the existing programs and services is

insufficient for the neighbourhood, there's some way to top up those services.

I was happy to be at the unveiling of the task force report on June 30. Mayor Miller was there. He obviously strongly endorsed it. I was there and I endorsed

it on behalf of the Ontario government and particularly on behalf of the Toronto caucus. There was federal representation there that endorsed it.

We've had enough talk on this. We have to move forward.

The Deputy Speaker: The member for Toronto−Danforth.

Ms. Churley: I appreciate the comments made from all parties this morning. As you may have noticed, I have gone out of my way to not be

partisan and play the blame game today. It can be very tempting to do so. But I agree with Mr. Zimmer on this, that Enough Talk should be the theme of the day. That's why we're here this morning,

because there has been a whole lot of talk about this issue.

Some members brought up gun violence this morning and law-and-order issues. I want to say that I was deliberately decoupling that issue. I know it's connected,

but I decoupled it for a reason. There has been a lot of focus on the law and order side, as there should be, because we know that poverty and a lack of resources play a huge

part in the gun

violence we're seeing. But I decoupled it because it is so important to recognize that those communities we're talking about are about a lot more than gun violence and troubled youth. What this is

all about today is also to prevent these problems from happening with youth down the road. So I deliberately, strategically, wanted to talk today about the resources that are needed, that are

spelled out in this report. It tells us exactly what we have to do to help those communities help themselves.

These communities are proud communities, as they should be. My leader and I, as I said earlier, visited some of those communities, and I know other members

here have done so as well. I urge everybody to go and see these communities for what they are, because they are about a lot more than what we read in the headlines in newspapers every day. They are

made up of people like you and me. They are made up of brave mothers and fathers, single mothers, kids who are going through school and getting jobs, some working two or three jobs to support their

families or go to university. There are incredible people living in these amazing communities, and I wanted to highlight and congratulate those communities today for all the good things about them.

That's what we're here for today, to celebrate these wonderful communities and say that it's the communities, the leaders in those communities and the struggling parents who are doing the work all

on their own to help themselves. We in this place need to draw upon this report and help those communities.

We have with us members from the Interfaith Social Assistance Reform Coalition, who are meeting with us here today, fittingly enough; the Ralph Thornton

Centre; the United Way; and the Bangladeshi-Canadian Community Services agency over here. I referred to them earlier and the incredible work they are doing, without any government support

whatsoever. There are people like that in our communities all over the city and all over the province, struggling. They work full-time and they spend their evenings and weekends in their

communities, without the resources they need to help their communities. I think we also have representatives from the South Asian Legal Clinic, and I'm sure there are more -- well, they were here.

I guess they had to get back to their meeting.

I am here today, and we are all here today, to applaud their work. Without them, as the United Way says, there would be no way. They are the ones who are

making the difference and they're struggling to do it on their own. We need to thank the United Way, the city of Toronto, the Toronto City Summit Alliance and all of those who worked hard to do the

research and bring forward this report.

This debate today is not going to draw headlines. It's not about gang violence and shootings; it's about our communities, it's about us, it's about who we are

collectively. The reason why this is here today is because we have a deadline -- the province, the feds, the city -- to follow through on these recommendations by December, and we're here today to

make sure that happens.

The Deputy Speaker: The time provided for private members' public business has now expired.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): We shall deal first with ballot item number 3, standing in the name of Mr. Parsons.

Mr. Parsons has moved second reading of Bill 5,

An Act to Amend the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to name a portion of Highway 62 and

Highway 33 the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment Memorial Highway.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

We will call in the members after dealing with the next ballot item.

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): We will now deal with ballot item number 4, private member's notice of motion number 3, in the name of

Ms. Churley.

Ms. Churley has moved that, in the opinion of this House, the Ontario Liberal government enter into an agreement with the city of Toronto to implement the

Toronto Strong Neighbourhoods Strategy, and urge the federal government to become an equal partner in this agreement as well.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, say "aye."

All those opposed, say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. I remind the members this is a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1201 to 1206.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION

AND HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

AMENDMENT ACT (HASTINGS

AND PRINCE EDWARD REGIMENT

MEMORIAL HIGHWAY), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR L'AMÉNAGEMENT DES VOIES

PUBLIQUES ET DES TRANSPORTS EN

COMMUN (ROUTE COMMÉMORATIVE

HASTINGS AND PRINCE EDWARD

REGIMENT)

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Mr. Parsons has moved second reading of Bill 5. All those in favour, please rise.

Ayes

Baird, John R.

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Caplan, David

Churley, Marilyn

Craitor, Kim

Di Cocco, Caroline

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Horwath, Andrea

Hoy, Pat

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marchese, Rosario

Marsales, Judy

Martel, Shelley

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Prue, Michael

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Deputy Speaker: All those opposed will please rise.

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 47; the nays are 0.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Mr Parsons has asked that the bill be ordered to the standing committee on regulations and private bills. Agreed? Agreed.

Now we'll open the doors for 30 seconds.

STRONG NEIGHBOURHOODS STRATEGY

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): Ms. Churley has moved private member's notice of motion 3. All those in favour will please stand.

Ayes

Baird, John R.

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Caplan, David

Churley, Marilyn

Craitor, Kim

Di Cocco, Caroline

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Hampton, Howard

Hardeman, Ernie

Horwath, Andrea

Hoy, Pat

Klees, Frank

Kormos, Peter

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marchese, Rosario

Marsales, Judy

Martel, Shelley

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Orazietti, David

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Parsons, Ernie

Patten, Richard

Prue, Michael

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Tory, John

Van Bommel, Maria

Wilkinson, John

Yakabuski, John

Zimmer, David

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 47; the nays are 0.

The Deputy Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

All matters relating to private members' public business having now been dealt with, I do leave the chair. The House will resume at 1:30 of the clock.

The House recessed from 1211 to 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

CELEBRATION OF THE ARTS

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): Last weekend I was very pleased to attend the Celebration of the Arts, sponsored by the York Region Newspaper

Group. The evening honours recipients of the organization's art bursaries, which are given out to York region's most promising young artists. The celebration is in its fifth year, and it is a gala

evening, featuring performances by some of the 2005 bursary winners and other years' fine artists. As well, the audience was entertained by the outstanding Huron Heights After-Hours jazz band.

In five years, they have awarded 68 bursaries, and thanks to the ever-growing list of sponsors, in 2005 they awarded the most bursaries ever: 20. This year's

bursary winners are: Amanda Bell, Hillary Coote, Christopher Dallo, Stephan Ermel, Elisa Gargarella, Alessia Iorio, Caley Kaiman, Haley Kirk, Georgia Leung, Kyle Merrithew, Amber Minchella, Gerrie

O'Brien, Brandon Rad, Radhika Ray, Rajini Retnasothie, Deanna Roffey, Jackie Saltzman, Hyunjoo Eugene Shon, Samantha Taylor and Mathew Teofilo.

I know I join with all my York region colleagues in honouring these great artists. Thanks as well to the York Region Newspaper Group and all the other sponsors

and volunteers.

BLUES AND JAZZ FESTIVAL

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): It's a great pleasure to rise today, especially in the presence of our mayor, Hazel McCallion, and the

city manager, Janice Baker. They will be introduced more formally later, I'm sure. It's my pleasure to rise to talk about the 2005 Southside Shuffle.

Once again, this blues and jazz festival was held in Port Credit, in Mississauga South, on the weekend following Labour Day. This year was more successful than

ever. In three days, attendance exceeded 100,000 people, and it was so important that even John Tory attended.

On the Wednesday prior, we held the blues gala evening called New Orleans 2005. Over 600 people attended and we raised over $40,000 for local charities and

not-for-profit organizations, including Youth Net Peel, Lakeshore Corridor Community Team, Interim Place, the Compass food bank, Foodpath and New Orleans relief.

Mr. Chuck Jackson, the founder of Southside Shuffle, his wonderful team, as well as Mississauga South Charity deserve our thanks and congratulations for

another successful festival and their great contribution that was made to the community of Mississauga South.

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): On December 9, 2004, I brought to the attention of the Legislature, and specifically to the Minister of the

Environment, a long-standing issue involving Gamma Foundries in Richmond Hill.

I rise today to report to this House that regrettably little has changed for the residents who continue to be subjected to the offensive odours and particulate

fallout from the Gamma foundry operations.

In fact, despite a provincial officer order issued on December 21, 2004, which ordered Gamma to prepare an action plan that will address odour emissions from

the plant, the company's response to that order is a blatant attempt to delay implementation of any meaningful mitigation measures which were identified in the engineering report in response to the

Ministry of the Environment order.

I am therefore calling today on the Ministry of the Environment to issue a new provincial officer order which will explicitly require the immediate

implementation of the specific engineering controls and control technology that was identified in the EarthTech report, and to prescribe specific timelines for compliance.

Nothing short of an immediate new order will be acceptable. The community that is being subjected to these odours and these pollutants should no longer have to

put up with the treatment they're receiving from this company.

UNION VILLA

Mr. Tony C. Wong (Markham): Today I rise to share with members of this chamber some very good news for seniors living in my riding of Markham.

Yesterday I had the good fortune of participating in the official grand opening ceremony of a new Union Villa, a long-term-care facility. Union Villa is a model of a brick-by-brick project in the

making. After almost 10 years of planning, two years of construction and a number of hurdles along the way, the new complex has opened at last.

Through my affiliation and many visits to the former facility over the years, I have witnessed the vision and plan for the development of this modern and

much-needed facility. Built on a solid 35-year foundation of serving the evolving needs of seniors, Union Villa provides exemplary care in a spacious, contemporary, barrier-free and now

energy-efficient facility.

As Ontario's fastest-growing demographic, more and more seniors will be moving into long-term-care facilities like Union Villa. I am confident that Union Villa

will provide Markham seniors with a quality of life that is second to none.

Please join me in recognizing the leadership, hard work and determination that have gone into the making of Union Villa, and most especially, my former

colleague and friend Graham Constantine, president and CEO. To my friends and residents of Union Villa, I applaud you. You deserve the best.

EVENTS IN GODERICH

Mrs. Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce): Today grade 10 students from Goderich District Collegiate Institute are touring the Legislature, and I

would like to welcome them. I know that they will have a very informative day.

A few weeks ago, the Minister of Labour, the Honourable Steve Peters, had the opportunity to visit "Canada's Prettiest Town", being the town of Goderich in the

beautiful riding of Huron-Bruce. Here, he had the chance to go underground to tour the world's largest salt mine, which is located in Goderich. As well, he was able to tour the assembly line at

Volvo Motor Graders. Minister Peters discussed different issues from within these two industries, as well as listening to the workers and their unions.

Issues frequently mentioned were workplace health and safety, training and opportunities for current and future employees. The minister spoke about many new

initiatives that this government has introduced in order to address these issues. Sifto and Volvo Motor Graders are the two largest employers in Goderich. Providing adequate training and ensuring

health and safety are top priorities. These industries will need many new employees to do the job with all the right skills required.

It's certainly my pleasure to welcome the students from Goderich.

ECONOMIC POLICY

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): A new sound is sweeping Ontario. It's hard to hear, but in the background of every McGuinty

announcement regarding job creation, the faint sounds of mariachi music can be heard and the volume is getting louder. I can only assume that the mariachi music we're hearing is from parties being

thrown in Mexico every time a company in Ontario packs up and heads down to warmer climates, both business and meteorological. Last week, Imperial Tobacco in Guelph announced it would be closing

and heading to Mexico, leaving 550 people out of work.

It's becoming clear that we cannot trust the McGuinty Liberals to do their part to create a favourable business climate. This has been demonstrated by their

energy plan, which is sloppy at best. It's having a devastating impact on the economy. Plant closures and job losses are beginning to mount; certainly more than enough to fill the entire back of a

napkin.

We've learned we cannot trust the McGuinty Liberals for much, but one would certainly hope to expect some compassion and empathy from the Liberal MPP in Guelph

-- not so. The member was quoted in the Guelph Mercury as saying that the closure of Imperial will cause disruption in the lives of those who lost their jobs but that it is an indicator that the

policies in the Liberal government are working.

The member owes those who will lose their jobs, as well as their families, a lot more than that -- perhaps an explanation of how the Liberal government has

failed them. I doubt that mariachi music will be of much comfort.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): The Municipal Property Assessment Corp., MPAC, has recently sent out the 2005 property assessments.

Ward 30 in Toronto-Danforth and ward 31 in Beaches-East York, both in the east end of Toronto, have been particularly hard-hit. The member for Beaches-East York and I have heard from hundreds of

residents, some with increases as high as 40%.

New Democrats and the Liberals, when in opposition, opposed the so-called current value assessment brought in by the previous Harris government, because we and

the Liberals knew at that time that it would hurt residents in our older neighbourhoods and our part of the city. Our worst fears have been realized. Seniors on fixed incomes and struggling young

families living in modest homes are being penalized because of rising property values, and they are being taxed on future equity that they cannot afford to pay.

Mr. Prue and I will be holding meetings in our community, and I can guarantee you that this is outrageous. People are going to be forced out of their homes,

and we want to see action now, not six months from now or whenever the Ombudsman reports back. There are certain suggestions we want to make that can be done: "Successful appeals and rollback of

assessments are not factored into as the new base rate forcing homeowners to appeal yearly. Homeowners should not have to go through this year after year. Make the appealed assessment the base

assessment."

There are more, which I will talk about at a later date. But mark my words, we are going to fight you every inch of the way.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): I rise today to congratulate Northumberland Hills Hospital and Quinte Health Care Corp. in my riding of

Northumberland for their tremendous speed in delivering surgeries to the residents of Ontario.

The new wait time tracking system employed by the Ministry of Health has revealed that Northumberland Hills Hospital is first in delivering cataract surgeries

within the Central East LHIN. In fact, patients going for cataract surgery at Northumberland Hills Hospital will have the fourth-shortest wait time in the province.

The median wait time for cataract surgery across Ontario is 85 days. However, the median wait time for cataract surgery at Northumberland Hills is 34 days.

This is clearly an impressive figure.

I would also like to commend Quinte Health Care Corp. for being the first for cataract surgeries, hip replacements and knee replacements in the South East

LHIN. For hip replacements, Quinte Health Care Corp. is third in the province.

Northumberland Hills Hospital and Quinte Health Care Corp. represent what the government's wait times strategy is all about. No doubt, the success of these

hospitals could not have been achieved without the tremendous dedication and hard work of doctors, nurses, administrators and other health professionals. I commend everyone at Northumberland Hills

and Quinte Health Care Corp. for rapidly providing quality health care to the residents of Northumberland.

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr. Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): Contrary to what some opposition members claim, the automotive industry in Ontario is not in decline, but

rather the auto sector is growing. Some 138,000 Ontarians are currently working in the automotive manufacturing sector. In my riding of London-Fanshawe, over 6,000 people are employed in

manufacturing, many of them in the auto sector.

One of the places some of my constituents work is the CAMI plant near Ingersoll. The plant currently assembles the Chevrolet Equinox and the Pontiac Torrent.

CAMI is projected to have a record production year this year, producing about 190,000 vehicles. CAMI has recently hired more employees, and now employs 2,784 people.

This government recognizes the importance of the automotive industry. We have set up the $500-million Ontario automotive investment strategy to help nurture

growth in auto manufacturing, evidenced by the $2.5-billion Beacon project investment by GM. This strategy is helping the industry produce more and helping the industry hire more. I am happy that

the McGuinty government is continuing to make these investments.

Congratulations to CAMI on their recent success. I'm proud that this government is helping to create more jobs in my region.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

COLLEGES COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

AMENDMENT ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 MODIFIANT LA LOI

SUR LA NÉGOCIATION COLLECTIVE

DANS LES COLLÈGES

Mr. Marchese moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 13,

An Act to amend the Colleges Collective Bargaining Act with respect to part-time staff / Projet de loi 13, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la

négociation collective dans les collèges à l'égard du personnel à temps partiel.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Does the member have a brief statement?

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Yes, I do, Speaker. The bill amends the Colleges Collective Bargaining Act to include part-time staff

in staff bargaining units. Under the present act, part-time workers are not included in bargaining units and have no right to bargain collectively with employers.

I have to tell you that I agree with OPSEU President Leah Casselman when she says, "It's shocking that such a basic right is not recognized in our

colleges."

I hope the members across will support this bill.

ACCESS TO JUSTICE ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR L'ACCÈS À LA JUSTICE

Mr. Bryant moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 14,

An Act to promote access to justice by amending or repealing various Acts and by enacting the Legislation Act, 2005 / Projet de loi 14, Loi

visant à promouvoir l'accès à la justice en modifiant ou abrogeant diverses lois et en édictant la Loi de 2005 sur la législation.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Does the minister have a brief statement?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I'll defer to ministers' statements.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

JUSTICE SYSTEM

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I want to begin by recognizing a number of honoured guests with us here in the gallery, and I'm going

to go in alphabetical order in terms of the organizations themselves: the president of the Advocates' Society, Linda Rothstein; the president of the Association of Law Officers of the Crown; the

County and District Law Presidents' Association; the Criminal Lawyers' Association; the president of the Paralegal Society of Ontario; the president of POINTTS; the president of the Professional

Paralegal Association of Ontario; the Small Investor Protection Association; the Society of Ontario Adjudicators and Regulators; the United Senior Citizens of Ontario; the Ontario Chamber of

Commerce; the Ontario Provincial Police Association; the Law Society of Upper Canada; the city of Mississauga, Mayor Hazel McCallion; the Healthcare Insurance Reciprocal of Canada; the chair of

Legal Aid Ontario; the Police Association of Ontario; the Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments; Seneca, Humber, Durham, Fleming and Sheridan community colleges; the Association of

Municipalities of Ontario; Canada's Association for the Fifty Plus; the Canadian Medical Protective Association; representatives from the city of Toronto; Fidelity National Financial; First

Canadian Title; the medical professional liability committee; the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police; the Ontario Bar Association; the Ontario Crown Attorneys' Association; the Ontario Trial

Lawyers Association; and the Toronto Board of Trade. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to all of them for being here.

This afternoon, I introduced for first reading the Access to Justice Act, 2005. The legislation, if passed, will modernize and improve the people's access to

the justice system, and it will provide greater openness, transparency and accountability. The bill would regulate paralegals, reform and streamline the justice of the peace system, amend the

Limitations Act and create the Legislation Act.

An increasing number of people in Ontario offer and charge consumers for paralegal services. However, at present, paralegals are not regulated in Ontario. For

many years, experts have recommended that paralegals be regulated. The regulation of paralegals would increase access to justice by giving consumers a choice in the qualified legal services they

use, while protecting those who receive legal advice from non-lawyers.

The Law Society of Upper Canada, which has the experience, infrastructure and expertise to regulate lawyers, has made a bold move and agreed to transform

itself into a regulator of professionals providing legal services. Treasurers past and present, like Mr. Hunter and Mr. Marrocco who are here, join together with benchers of the law society to act

in the public interest and take on this very important responsibility that will help all Ontarians.

The bill would give the law society the responsibility of regulating paralegals. Paralegals would have a permanent role in the regulation of their own

profession through the law society. A paralegal standing committee composed of a non-lawyer majority would play a key role in directing the affairs of paralegals.

I want to thank and congratulate the many pioneers and leaders, many of whom are in the House today, who made this issue that has been around for a very long

time a reality, and it is all in the public interest for Ontario. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for that.

Of course, another part of access to justice is our court system itself. The time is now to modernize the justice of the peace system in Ontario. The

improvements in the Access to Justice Act, if passed, will ensure a more open and transparent appointment process for justices of the peace, with legislated standards for qualifications and a

complaints and discipline process.

These improvements would introduce increased flexibility for the court in scheduling justices of the peace. For example, per diem justices of the peace could

be dedicated by the judiciary exclusively to specific matters, including Provincial Offences Act proceedings, sometimes referred to as traffic court.

We have heard from municipalities, we've heard from leaders, mayors like Mayor McCallion, police and the judiciary, and now we are proposing to amend the

Provincial Offences Act to permit witnesses to be heard by electronic means; for example, by video conferencing. Police officers would not necessarily need to attend in person in court for

provincial offences proceedings, including traffic ticket charges. The goal is to reduce the time and cost for police in attending a trial and to ease the pressure on Provincial Offences Act

courts. The amendments would permit alternatives for resolving municipal bylaw disputes without having to go to provincial offences court, ensuring the effective administration of justice.

If these am