British Columbia Hansard — 22 October 2018, a.m., Issue 163 (41st Parliament, 3rd Session)

20181022am-Hansard-n163

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, October 22, 2018 Morning Sitting Issue No. 163 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Third Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Linda Reid Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees.................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ..................................................................Nanaimo Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)...................................................................... Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)....................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ...............................................................................

Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon. Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Monday, October 22, 2018 Morning Sitting Page Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements................................................................................................................................................. 5731 The benefits of modular housing M. Dean T. Stone Economic recovery plan for communities affected by wildfires and floods C. Oakes J. Rice Investing in cycling, walking and multi-user infrastructure D. Routley S. Gibson A legitimate pathway to electoral reform S. Sullivan N.

Simons Private Members’ Motions ..................................................................................................................................................... 5739 Motion 28 — Electoral system J. Routledge M. Morris J. Brar P . Milobar B. Ma T. Shypitka R. Leonard D. Barnett S. Furstenau M. Lee B. D’Eith

MONDAY , OCTOBER 22, 2018 The House met at 10:04 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [10:05 a.m.] Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements THE BENEFITS OF MODULAR HOUSING M. Dean:Today it’s my honour to talk about the benefits of modular housing. The most critical issue in my constitu- ency of Esquimalt-Metchosin is the housing crisis. The hous- ing crisis was created by years and years of neglect, and it’s going to take years of sustained action to bring housing affordability back.

Our government is moving quickly to provide housing and support services for people who have been living in unsafe conditions on the streets for far too long. The com- munity response across the province to our new program has been remarkable. In less than a year, we reached our goal of confirming 2,000 modular homes throughout the province, and 22 municipalities have partnered with us to help people who are experiencing homelessness. [L. Reid in the chair.] Still, housing is not available or affordable for many res- idents of Esquimalt-Metchosin.

Greater Victoria is said to have one of the least affordable housing markets in Canada. Rents have been increasing considerably in recent years, and incomes, to meet these increasing costs of housing, have not kept pace. The CRD has an overall vacancy rate of 0.7 percent, including a vacancy rate of zero for three-bedroom units. According to the capital regional district’s draft housing affordability strategy, about 6,200 affordable rental apart- ment units are needed now in greater Victoria just to catch up with current demand. Wait-lists for social and supportive housing are extremely long.

In June 2018, there were 994 households on the B.C. Housing wait-list in the capital region. There were 1,525 individuals across the capital region identified as being homeless on the night of the 2018 point-in-time count. There was an overrepresentation of Indigenous people in this count. It included youth and seniors, and 2.2 percent did not identify with binary gender options. Further west in my constituency, we’ve experienced an ongoing issue of housing problems.

While the housing crisis might not have been the same as in downtown cores, of a vis- ible street population, the housing issue in West Shore res- ults in people living in the woods and off the trails. Families in West Shore are experiencing housing instabil- ity, insecurity and poor conditions. There are so many ex- amples of overcrowding, couch-surfing, renovictions. Many families are living paycheque to paycheque and are living precariously on the edge of having to reach out to a friend or a family member for basic shelter.

This is especially true for single women, who are especially vulnerable to their precari- ous situation being exploited. In my community, I hear from bylaw officers that they encounter the homeless population, the marginalized, living on the edges of the community. They’re camping away from the main drag, yet they come to the attention of these officers, who have to help them to find resources and appro- priate shelter.

Because the issue of homelessness has been concentrated in downtown, resources to address this crisis have been concentrated in that urban area. [10:10 a.m.] However, we need more development of affordable hous- ing and shelters on the West Shore. I want to say thank you to all of the agencies and services who are doing what they can already in our community. For example, there are no shelters for youth, who might be thrown out of home by a struggling family or are unable to make the rent and are evicted by their landlords. I know from a youth advocate in our community that we have a crisis in youth homelessness.

She tells me of the local areas, among the big-box stores, where groups of homeless young people spend the night together. At last, we are able to see a shift in support for the home- less. Our government has a comprehensive 30-point plan that will tackle the housing crisis. We will increase capacity, repair aging infrastructure, respond to immediate homeless- ness, enhance capacity for families as well as individuals and support youth who are homeless. Of course, this is a complex matter, and it requires a com- prehensive and bold plan. One aspect of this plan is to provide modular housing.

This can be done quickly, and the modular units provided offer privacy, storage, private bath- rooms and safe personal space. As part of the 2017 Budget Update, the province announced that it will invest $291 mil- lion to support the construction of 2,000 modular units for people that are homeless. What’s important is that not only do modular units provide almost immediate relief from homelessness, but they also provide safe shelter, and our modular program offers the services that are needed. This is such an important component.

In my community, there’s a crisis in mental health and addictions issues, and there are no services available. Due to cuts in services and increases in population, members of my community who have mental health and addictions needs do not have local services, and they often come to the attention of RCMP or local bylaw officers. Y outh in need have to wait at least one year for service. In contrast, modular housing brings with it staffing 24-7 5731

and life-enhancing services to residents, such as mail pro- grams, life and employment skills training, health and well- ness support services, opportunities for volunteer work. Everything is based on people’s assessed needs. They can connect residents to community supports. They can offer case planning and needs assessment. They can offer assist- ance to access income assistance, pension benefits, disability benefits. They can offer no-cost laundry services either on site or off site. The allocation of these units is a responsive move, a responsive program.

It brings with it these wraparound ser- vices that are needed so much, and the investment in local communities is responsive to local needs, strategic plans and best-practice research. This is a great opportunity for me to say thank you to all of the non-profits who are partnering…. Deputy Speaker:Thank you, Member. T. Stone:I am pleased to rise on behalf of the official opposition and speak to the benefits of modular construc- tion — a powerful economic driver across our province, including in my community of Kamloops.

Under the leadership of Horizon North CEO Rod Gra- ham, Kamloops is now the home of an industry leader in the modular construction industry. What Horizon North proudly proclaims as its centre of excellence has developed into a technological and industrial marvel, operating like an automotive manufacturing plant to deliver a wide array of modular projects. At present, Rod Graham is directing a team of around 400 dedicated workers using sophisticated technology and lead- ing design software. Their Kamloops workforce is expected to increase by an additional 200 more jobs over the next couple of years.

The skilled team of construction workers in Kamloops is producing modules of various sizes in a factory controlled environment. I’ve had the privilege of touring this facility, as I know the Minister of Housing has as well, and I know that she will agree that the work being done here in this Kamloops facility is absolutely incredible.

Horizon North has trans- formed modular construction far beyond work camp accommodation, though I note that those particular mod- ules are now homes away from home, designed with the all of the luxuries and comfort that one would desire in his or her private residence. [10:15 a.m.] Imagine LEGO blocks being built in a controlled and closed environment in a manufacturing facility, rather than at an outdoor construction environment, shipped to site and assembled on site.

The technique uses the same materials as conventional construction and designs to the same codes and standards but saves 30 to 50 percent of the time. When done, the structure is indistinguishable from conventional construction methods. The benefits of modular construction include reducing waste, reducing our carbon footprint and reducing construction schedules. Modular construction has countless applications, includ- ing new school construction or school additions. Think of the value of being able to put up an elementary school in half the time it currently takes, and at a discounted price.

As an example, a new elementary school that’s needed in the rapidly growing Kamloops community of Pineview Val- ley could be ordered today, and it would be ready for occu- pancy in nine months or less, and certainly in time for the start of the next school year in September 2019. It would also be built to the same standards of quality for less cost than a school built via conventional construction methods. I also think of care for seniors. Of course, Canadians aren’t getting any younger, as was reiterated in the latest census.

Seniors now outnumber children for the first time in history, and the widely held view among the population experts is that in less than eight years from now, our nation will require over 130,000 additional spaces for seniors, growing to 240,000 units by 2046. An increasingly rapid response to meeting this demand will be critical, and modular construction can get those needed facilities open in half the time as traditional on-site construction — again, with zero reduction in quality.

I’m also proud to remind this House that Horizon North is making a huge difference when it comes to creating sup- portive housing to ensure that British Columbia’s most vul- nerable have safe and secure housing. Horizon North is cur- rently involved in approximately two dozen affordable hous- ing projects across the province. Among these ventures are 600 units in Vancouver, valued at $66 million, to provide a stepping stone from temporary to permanent housing. There are also two separate projects in Kamloops to build 104 units, valued at $11.4 million.

Now, Luke Harrison, CEO of the Vancouver Affordable Housing Agency, says: “It’s not a solution for everything, but it’s a great tool that we have in our arsenal now to deal with things like the homeless population that requires an urgent and critical response that just doesn’t come as easily through traditional forms of conventional construction. ” Modular construction stands poised to provide British Columbians with tremendous benefits, meeting the needs of our citizens, such as schools, senior centres, supportive housing and more — delivering on the requirements of quality, sustainability and affordability, all the while providing local communities like Kamloops with good- paying, skilled jobs.

To quote Horizon North’s CEO Rod Graham on the excitement and the state of the readiness of B.C. ’s modular construction industry: “We’re just getting started. ” M. Dean: Thank you so much to the member for Kam- loops–South Thompson. Y es, you’re right. It’s these new pro- vincial investments in modular housing that are also creating thousands of jobs and boosting local economies throughout the province. Manufacturers, as mentioned, in Kamloops 5732 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

and, also, Kelowna, Penticton, Cumberland and Westbank are building these modular units, and that supports stability and the growth of local businesses. There’s also flexibility in the modular technology, which means that a range of buildings are being developed throughout B.C. in ways that fit the housing and support needs of the communities that they will be put into. For example, repurposed temporary modular housing was used to quickly address a critical need in Surrey, while permanent, firm five-storey buildings with elevators and other amenities are being constructed in Kamloops.

Let’s take the example from Surrey. A camp had estab- lished itself for many months, culminating with 160 people living along 135A Street. They were offered supportive hous- ing at the temporary buildings that were announced in Janu- ary or shelter beds at one of the local shelters. The 160 units of temporary housing included secure individual rooms with private bathrooms and access to meal programs, counselling, medical offices, skills programming and 24-7 staffing. What was really significant about this project was that the end result was that everyone chose to go to one of the shelter options that was offered.

None of the homeless population from 135A Street chose to remain on the street or move to an alternative homeless camp. [10:20 a.m.] In less than a year, our government has actually delivered 2,064 modular homes in 22 communities. We’re going to build on the success of this program and the interest that we’ve heard from across B.C. communities. We’ve launched the supportive housing fund, and we’re going to deliver an additional 2,500 new homes with 24-7 services. We know this is only a start in tackling the homeless situ- ation.

That’s why work is underway across government to develop a homelessness action plan, and that will develop really long-term solutions. And I am committed to continue to work with our municipalities, with our First Nations band councils and with the local non-profit agencies in our com- munity to identify where and when we can bring these resources to our communities. ECONOMIC RECOVERY PLAN FOR COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY WILDFIRES AND FLOODS C. Oakes: I truly am pleased today to have the oppor- tunity to present an economic recovery plan for communi- ties affected by wildfires and floods.

The 2017-2018 wildfire season saw a combined total of over 2.55 million hectares of forests burned, with each season setting a record of the largest area burned in British Columbia history. Tens of thousands of people were forced to evacuate their homes, and many suffered destruction of property and total loss of homes or their inability to earn a living on the land. If we’ve learned anything from the last two record seasons of wildfire seasons, it’s that our current approach to fighting and preventing wildfires isn’t working.

We need a different approach to address the changes in hydrology, watersheds and debris management that is resulting in floods. The same applies in the manner, or lack thereof, of assisting people after they have been affected by wildfires and floods. My riding of Cariboo North is a perfect example of what the combined effects of wildfires, floods and landslides can have in altering people’s lives.

We continue to have families who were burned out in 2017 still waiting for a home, strug- gling with insurance companies, lack of contractors, diffi- culty in getting permits and overwhelmed by the prospect of spending another winter without a home. I’ve visited multiple times with these families. The real- ity is they’re still facing the emotional devastation of losing their home and possessions. They do not want to move as they are still going through the burned-out rubble, look- ing for possessions that are dear to them.

There needs to be better support with long-term rebuilding for families, support with accessing reliable contractors, working with insurance companies, prioritizing permits to assist people to rebuild their lives. For the 200-plus residents in the Buckridge and Estella areas, two years of wildfires and then the devastating land- slide of 2018 have left their lives remarkably altered.

Follow- ing the 2017 wildfire season, a post-hydrologic risk assess- ment of West Fraser Road and the Narcosli watershed impacted by the Plateau wildfire complex covering an area of 521,012 hectares and stretching 130 kilometres from one end to the other…. After the fires, significant debris and changes in hydrology have left significant impacts in both flooding and landslides. In the spring of 2018, West Fraser Road faced a significant landslide in six areas.

Residents are now being told, when they meet with the Ministry of Transportation, it may be fixed by 2020, but it still needs to go through significant reviews, and it needs to go through treasury. Here is the reality for people who live in Buckridge and Estella. They are now travelling on an altered road — narrow, gravel, remote. For the 28 children who live in that area, they are getting on a school bus at 6:30 in the morning, travel- ling two hours on this narrow gravel road, shared with the industry.

Four hours a day children are travelling on these remote gravel rural roads to attend school. [10:25 a.m.] The community members are concerned that they’re not being heard. We have seen disaster financial assistance in other parts of the province when landslides have happened, and the community members of Narcosli, Buckridge and Estella want to ensure that resources will be made available for them as well. For the communities living in Nazco and Kluskus, who have been affected by two seasons of wildfires and flooding, their challenge that we have is that insurance doesn’t cover flooding.

So families who have been affected by multiple years are waiting to try and have their insurance challenges addressed. More needs to be done to assist them. A little over a week ago, 100 workers in our community Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5733

of Quesnel faced immediate layoff from the Tolko Quest Wood lumber mill. We certainly understand, with the sig- nificant amount of fibre that was burned during the wild- fires, that we would see limited fibre and we would start to see changes in our community. I can tell you that this kind of news sends a chill through the hearts of families living in our communities. We are one of the most forest-dependent communities in British Columbia.

When changes in our economy and changes that we’ve seen resulted in wildfires, communities are asking where the resources are to help people retrain, rebuild, reinvest and look at new opportunities to move on in the community in their lives. West Fraser Road serves as another example of how com- munities need to be working together. With significant loss in areas of economy, we also need to look at how we can address impacts on other economies, such as the guide-out- fitters. We’ve had challenges, as well, rebuilding, with the trappers, significant areas affected by the Plateau fire.

For these types of economic-related individuals on the land base, there needs to be a way for the government to work with them to support them. A guide-outfitter goes out to shows, many of them two or three years out. Now, with the effects of two years of wildfire seasons, they have to refund all of that. Eighty percent of the territory is burnt out for guide-outfitters and trappers, and they are asking the government where the resources are to help them rebuild and look at alternatives. There’s also, as I’ve mentioned, a significant loss of log supply in our communities.

There are opportunities to work with industry to make sure that we’re getting permits out much quicker. We’ve continued to raise concerns that we have with the bug epidemics that we’ve seen with both the spruce bud beetle as well as the Douglas fir. There are signi- ficant concerns that by the time the studies have been com- pleted, it will be a significant epidemic, as we’ve seen with the mountain pine beetle. I’ll continue in a moment. J.

Rice: As the member mentioned, it was indeed an unprecedented wildfire and flood season both in 2017 and 2018, with 1.2 million hectares burned in 2017 and 1.3 mil- lion hectares burned during this year’s wildfire season. In 2017, too, we had over 65,000 people displaced. We had about one-third of that this year — displaced during the wildfire season and hundreds and hundreds of homes and other structures lost. Recovery efforts are focused in four key areas: people in communities, economy and environment, infrastructure and then reconstruction.

A list of the 2017 recovery pro- grams and initiatives available to individuals, families, busi- nesses, the ag sector and First Nations are available on the B.C. government website. It’s gov.bc.ca/wildfirerecovery. Then there’s the local authorities and First Nations recov- ery toolkit that is also published on line on the B.C. govern- ment website. I won’t go on and talk about all the slashes and that. But it’s there, it’s available, and I’ d be happy to help any- one who needs help navigating that.

The member mentioned that the current approach to fighting fires or to dealing with our wildfires in British Columbia is not working. [10:30 a.m.] I think both sides of the House are in agreement that we have a lot of work to do when it comes to fighting fires and preparing our communities for the impacts that we’re facing around climate change, whether that is fires, floods, land- slides or whatever is next — hopefully, nothing.

I wanted to say that that’s why we — at least the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources alone — committed over $72 million over three years for wildfire recovery and to help build communities’ resilience to wildfires. Of this $72 million, this includes $50 million over the next three years under the new community resiliency investment program — which people are giving a horrible acronym of CRIP — to reduce wildfire risk around First Nations and local com- munities. It also includes $22 million over the next three years to assist land base recovery in the most heavily impacted areas.

This $22 million is for looking at things like access man- agement for fire access roads, to improve or recover water storage facilities and dams, to rehabilitate range lands and reforestation. This $72 million builds on a whole bunch of other commitments that this government has already made. In 2017, $100 million was allocated to the Canadian Red Cross to assist people affected by wildfires. To date, as of this spring, the Red Cross has provided support to over 22,000 households to return home and has made over 66,000 distri- butions of financial assistance.

They’ve held over 7,700 meet- ings with individuals and families needing ongoing help to recover, made 1,200 referrals to external mental health and support agencies and completed over 220 outreach visits to impacted communities. As of this September, 27 community recovery managers have been hired to oversee the implementation of com- munity recovery plans in 25 communities. That includes in the Cariboo and the areas that the member opposite has just spoken about. There’s a long list here of recovery plans that have been submitted to the provincial government.

I won’t get into all of those — but basically to say that there’s a lot of work that’s being done, even though there may still need to be more work done. There are mental health and wellness working groups. They’re working on short-term and long-term supports. Funding has been approved for four community wellness managers in Ashcroft, 100 Mile House, Quesnel and Wil- liams Lake.

The Ministry of Health, First Nations Health Authority, Canadian Red Cross and many government ministries, Interior Health, community policing, not-for- profit groups are all involved in delivery and supports for this region. 5734 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

C. Oakes:First, I do want to thank the member for North Coast for the work that both she and the ministry did over the last few years. We really do appreciate it. I think it’s also fitting for me to take a moment to thank all of the incredible men and women who worked tirelessly over the last two years to keep our communities safe and to work diligently on both fires and floods. The comments that I make today are not a criticism. They’re just an ongoing conversation of gaps that we see evolving that we need to address. The Cariboo Fire Centre learned so much from 2017, and they implemented those changes in 2018.

To all the men and women working in the Cariboo Fire Centre: I’m so incred- ibly thankful for the work that you do. To our Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development director, the regional men and women working in our communities: you live in our communities. Y ou understand the needs that are required. Y ou understand the gaps. I think it’s fitting that we in the Legislature under- stand what your needs are and try and find ways, with the limited resources that we always have, to fill in those gaps.

I would like to draw attention and hope that the member and all members of this House will help assist us in raising to the federal government the needs for disaster financial assistance for the communities affected by the West Fraser Road landslide. [10:35 a.m.] Please, if there’s anything…. These community members are being told it will be several years waiting for that road to be built, and their lives have been significantly altered. So, please, if there’s anything you can do to assist them….

I also want to draw attention to the post-wildfire hydraulic risk assessment of the West Fraser Road and the Narcosli watersheds impacted by the Plateau wildfire complex. I’m significantly concerned that if we do not address the hydro- logy challenges that we have, due to the wildfires we’ve seen, we’re going to face significantly more challenges when it comes to spring freshet. There’s lots of attention on fires. We need to make sure that resources and support for our regional FLNRORD teams are there for addressing the hydrological risks that we face in our communities.

I would ask the member to cham- pion that as well, with some assistance. Finally, for the employees and businesses affected by the closure of Tolko…. I have met with the Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resources and offered to work collabor- atively together. I think there are some lessons we learned when we were in government with a cross-ministry strategic approach by bringing in everything from Ministry of Chil- dren and Families, Rural Development, to Forests, Lands and Natural Resources. INVESTING IN CYCLING, W ALKING AND MULTI-USER INFRASTRUCTURE D.

Routley:I rise today to speak to the House about an issue that I really have nothing to do with — cycling infra- structure, walking and multi-use transportation invest- ments. I think these are very important investments. I think everyone would be surprised that I would be sup- portive of investments in cycling. But with my history…. I absolutely love bicycles. I’m going to talk about why people might ride bicycles. My own history with a bicycle was through recovery. A lot of people begin cycling through recovery from injuries. I took it on as a sport.

I travelled around the world and rode my bicycle all over Japan and built a business importing and manufacturing bicycles. So they are a big part of my life. It’s no surprise that I’m supportive. But why would I ride a bicycle? I ride a bicycle for all the reasons that people mention: for better health — physical health but, even more importantly, mental health; for envir- onmental integrity and responsibility, as I take away my emissions and my footprint; to reduce congestion in our cit- ies and conflict on our roads. All of those things. But for me, the number one reason is that it’s fun to ride a bicycle.

I have to say that I’ve ridden a long way. I estimate at least seven times around the equator. I’ve been hit seven times by cars. So I know full well the implications of not making these investments, and how they hold people back from experien- cing what I consider to be one of my favourite things about being a human being. It is, in fact, one of the most common experiences of human beings: learning to ride a bicycle. Last year there were 1.9 million people in British Columbia who rode their bicycles at least once. The num- ber of bicycle trips to work and back has increased 64 per- cent since 1996.

In Victoria here, we have a nation-leading 16.9 percent of commuters either using bicycles, walking or other means of active transportation. They have a plan here in Victoria to build 32 kilometres of cycling infrastructure, including 5.4 kilometres of protected bike lanes in the city here. That will help a lot of people get on their bikes who are afraid of riding in traffic, like I could be. I think that if we’re careful…. We have a much higher degree of awareness from drivers now than we had before, but there are still conflicts.

In the first 14 months of Victoria’s cycling plan, there were 530,000 trips over these bike lanes. When completed, the 32 kilometres of cycling infrastructure should reduce 10,000 tonnes of carbon emissions. In Vancouver, more than 10 percent of people cycle to work. That’s No. 1 of all major North American cities. In Victoria, they’re nation-leading in these numbers here in Canada. Fifty percent of the commuting trips in Vancouver are either by foot, by bike or by transit.

This is an extraordin- ary number, and it’s a number that we must increase if we hope to reach our climate goals. [10:40 a.m.] This July Vancouver broke ridership records on five of their major bike routes through the city. On the Burrard Bridge bike lane alone, in July, there were 216,000 trips. On the Point Grey Road bike lane in July, there were 110,000 Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5735

trips. The Mobi bike-lending service in Vancouver has grown in a few short years from 250 bicycles and 23 stations to more than 800 bicycles and 100 stations. Clearly, if we build it, they will ride. If we build the infra- structure, the people will use it. Whenever I talk to people, I ask them….

I ask cyclists: “Why do you ride your bike?” Almost invariably, they say: “For my health, my mental health. ” There’s nothing better after a long frustrating day at work, or in question period, to get on a bike and roll away, feel the wind, breathe the air and think calm thoughts, because you’re in a bike lane protected from traffic. It’s a very important investment that progressive cities are making all over the world. It counts for health. It counts for emissions. It also counts for the economy. Retailers along bike paths in Vancouver have noticed a strong increase in their retail sales.

This is a very import- ant factor. We already know that bicycle tourism is a very significant contributor to the economy and does increase as we make these investments. I’m standing here in support of further investments in cycling infrastructure. I hope all members in the House will agree with me. S. Gibson:I’m pleased to speak to this statement regard- ing investing in cycling, walking and multi-use infrastruc- ture by the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan. I appre- ciate that. I want to begin by saying that there’s a difference between living in community and living in a community.

The differ- ence is that when you live in a community, you care about the people that you’re with — your citizens that you share the community with. Now, community is about cooperative healthy lifestyle, the opportunity to build relationships, supporting family as the foundation in a secure society, and recreation and sport that’s organized. Some of you will know Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the pyramid. Well, at the very top was something called self- actualization.

When we get out and use these recreation- al trails that the member was talking about, I believe we self-actualize more successfully because we get to know our strengths — our recreational strengths and our phys- ical capacities. Investing in these roadways, these trails, for cycling and walking and other personal pursuits is a good thing and desirable. I want to agree with the member this morning. My experience as a long-distance cyclist affirms this. One of the things I have appreciated is the people I’ve gotten to know along the way. Y ou’ll be cycling.

Somebody will come up beside you, and all of a sudden you’ve kind of made a new friend, as it were. Y ou cycle for many kilometres together and then part ways. The other benefit to these trails is that you see communit- ies from a different perspective. If you’re always on the road- ways, well, that’s what you see. Y ou see all the commercial development. But often these trails are on different routes in areas that are more rural, and that, I think, is a benefit. Cyc- ling also gets you off the main drag, as it were, and allows you to really see the community more from, I would say, a recreational point of view.

Now, I have had the privilege of running for 25 years. A friend of mine who was a police officer got me started. He got me started running. We used to run all of the trails around the community in my riding of Abbotsford-Mission, and what a great experience it was. Unfortunately, he had to stop running because of some physical challenges, but I kind of kept going. [10:45 a.m.] We have Discovery Trail in Abbotsford. Some of you may have heard of that. It traverses much of our urban area. Every month thousands of people run across that. They walk across it. They take their families along there, with their kids.

They push their kids in buggies. So it’s really building community, as I said in my earlier remarks. It follows the power lines, areas that couldn’t often be used for anything else. Now, I’ve seen deer, and I saw a coyote one time. We have raccoons. Friends of mine who have taken these trails have seen cougar and even bear along the Discovery Trail. Seniors walk their dogs, which is, of course, a great thing for community. It’s an opportunity for a variety of demo- graphic groups. Running and cycling clubs, of course, use these trails as well.

One thing the speaker, the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan, did acknowledge earlier on was about alternat- ives to driving. Increasingly, in urban areas, you’re seeing where people are actually commuting, using the trails, walk- ing and cycling. There’s a trail here in Victoria. I think it’s the wild goose trail. Is that the name of it? An Hon. Member:The Galloping Goose. S. Gibson:Y eah, right. I ran that the other day, and I bumped into quite a few people who were actually commuting along there. It was kind of neat.

There’s an affirmation that it can happen even here in our capital city, right here in Victoria, particularly in urban areas. Investing in this kind of infrastructure is good for our health. It’s good for community. It builds social contact. I want to acknowledge this motion from the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan. D. Routley:I thank the member for his reply, and I’m very happy that he would agree that these are important invest- ments. I think everyone in the House would agree.

I think it’s hard not to when you look at the outcomes, both in terms of people’s health and in reducing impact on the environment and making a community a more livable place. I always want to encourage people to ride. Y ou don’t want to tell them scary stories about being hit by cars or about having bad experiences with drivers, but it is an important 5736 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

aspect of what happens out there. I can say that, just very tra- gically, last night on Marine Drive a pedestrian was killed. I believe it was an accident, and the outcome of the accident was that a pedestrian was killed. It re-emphasizes the importance of having separations for traffic. When you’ve got multiple thousand-pound vehicles travelling at high speed around very soft vehicles called human bodies com- bined with tiny light vehicles called bicycles, the outcomes can be terribly tragic. Y esterday I was chased by a driver on my bicycle.

I was chased, and the driver intentionally tried to hit me multiple times — and swore, cursed and jumped out of his van. I rarely do this, but I wrote all this down, and today I’m going to be making a complaint to the police. This kind of thing is something that I used to experience routinely on a bicycle. Now it’s much more rare, but it happens. It’s one of the reas- ons that we need to support these kinds of investments. I’m an extremely experienced cyclist. I have bright, flashing LED lights on my body and my bicycle when I’m riding.

I am very visible, very responsible, yet I can still wind up in a conflict like that. When we look at that aspect of our lives, in Toronto, after they made significant cycling investments, conflicts on the road, from car driver to car driver, decreased 71 percent — let alone the conflicts between cyclists and car drivers. So it’s very important. As we experience congestion, there are the obvious psychological reactions to that, and some people, unfortunately, react in a less than positive way.

I think it would be a lot easier just to separate that traffic than to evolve and elevate those people to a place where they would respect the other people on the road. When I think of my kids, when I think of parents send- ing their kids to walk to school, they’re afraid for their lives. When you think of your parents or elderly people walking on the side of the road, you’re afraid for their lives. That shouldn’t be the case. All over the world, we have examples of best practice. We should do it here; we should continue to invest. [10:50 a.m.] A LEGITIMATE PATHW AY TO ELECTORAL REFORM S.

Sullivan:My statement today is on the legitimate path to electoral reform. This is a very serious issue. Parliament, of course, is engaged in the exercise of power, and we have to take utmost care when considering electoral reform. When I look around the world — I look at the different countries and the quality of life of people — it strikes me that people really are the same everywhere. We have the same desires; we have the same motivations. What makes us dif- ferent are our institutions and often the culture that’s derived from those institutions.

The structure of our institutions dir- ectly influences our national character, and it influences our quality of life and the way that we engage with each oth- er, our citizenship. Are our government systems resilient or fragile? Are they inclusive or exclusive? Are they efficient or bureaucratic? This affects our quality of life and the culture that we live within. It’s important to recognize, first of all, that electoral reform is complicated. The different forms of government require expertise, and they require time. It takes a long time to get up to speed.

There aren’t a lot of experts in the world who know all there is to know about different forms of electoral systems. It is important to get that expertise and to take the time to understand it, because it will have a profound impact on our quality of life and the way we govern ourselves. It’s important to keep an open mind about the opportun- ities that are available from different systems and also to rec- ognize the things we may not always appreciate about the system we have. Y ou know, we’re so accustomed to it that we often don’t realize how much it means to us and what it does for our culture.

It’s important, when creating a new electoral reform sys- tem, to have a set of values. We must develop these values, against which systems would be measured. Creating a really comprehensive set of values is critical. It requires impartial- ity, and politicians, unfortunately, are hopelessly conflicted in this issue. They are likely to be biased — and, possibly, unconsciously biased. It goes without saying that because their own success or failure is linked with the electoral sys- tem, this has to be the case. Even if they’re not biased, there will be a perception of bias.

It’s not only important to have an impartially decided system but that these systems be perceived to be unbiased. If the citizens suspect that the offerings are related to extern- al power issues, there will be a question of legitimacy, and by removing many of the decisions and the processes from people who are likely to be conflicted, this will increase the legitimacy of whatever is the result. It’s important, also, to understand the idea, the concept of representation. What does that mean, “representation”? There are two different aspects of that. [10:55 a.m.] One is the perspective of what voters see.

How do they see their own world in the area that they live? Different voters see the same thing differently. I can’t help but notice — in talking to people, some from different visible minority groups — that when I go down a street of my city, I’m actu- ally in a different city than they are because of the social environment. Representation is not a mathematical issue. It’s not an abstract thing. It actually is highly related to the perspective of voters and citizens. I note that there are some pretty well- established international best practices. The United King- dom has a very well-developed system.

These systems are not ensconced in our political system here now. The European Union has done a lot of work on developing best practices for how to come to new electoral systems. Probably the greatest resource is right here in British Columbia. It’s called the citizens’ assembly. There were 160 citizens chosen from different ridings — male, female, two Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5737

people from each riding. They spent 11 months looking at the issues of values, the issues of different electoral systems. They actually ran computer models of these various different systems, and they were able to identify real flaws within some of them, because of the incredible work they did. They are an incredible resource, and that expertise exists right here among us. N. Simons: Thank you to my friend, my colleague from False Creek, for his comments on this important issue.

I appreciate the thought he puts into these kinds of issues — sometimes seen as dry issues that are, maybe, beyond the daily conversations of our fellow citizens but that, nonethe- less, require some thought, especially on important issues such as how we are represented in a democracy, how the choices of individuals are represented in the place where decisions are made. The member stated that everybody sees things slightly dif- ferently. I think that’s a fair comment.

I think even the defin- ition of “legitimacy” is sometimes subjective and needs to be discussed at a deeper level than we often get a chance to do in this chamber. I understand, also…. There’s sort of a veiled comment about a process we’re currently engaged in. I think it’s important to point out that when we ask the public for their opinion in the form of a referendum or any other sort of public opinion measurement, it’s important to consider all of the factors related to that particular decision that the pub- lic has to make.

At a certain point, there’s an assumption that people will have an understanding of the question that they’re being given. Based on that understanding, whether it’s an in-depth understanding or a superficial understand- ing, there’s a sense to what question they’re being asked. I think when we talk about legitimacy — or the opposite, illegitimacy — we’re getting into a little bit of brinksmanship. I think what we’re dealing with here is that we have levels of integrity, levels of measurement that may not simply fit into legitimate or not legitimate.

I believe that when you ask the public for an opinion on an issue, you can measure it. It’s measurable. It’s a measurement of those who spend the time to express their opinion. We’ve heard comments from the opposition about the legitimacy of government under this system that we use here, though the party that manages to gain the confidence of the Legislature is a legitimate government.

Despite that, we hear members of the opposition calling government ille- gitimate. [11:00 a.m.] I think last week there was mention of the legitimacy of the municipal elections that occurred just this past weekend and whether or not the results of that election, wherever they were held, were legitimate or not. In fact, the question is a bit of an undermining question when it’s stated in that way. In fact, legitimacy can be adherence to rules, adherence to the accepted practice that we undertake here.

What isn’t legitimate is, I believe, asking a majority to make decisions based on whether they believe minorities should have a voice. I think that can be, on the face of it, seen as an illegitimate question. When you put power against those who are disempowered by a simple vote of majority, I think we have a problem. When it’s an issue for opinions to be sought, there are fair questions around process. Those are expected in this place. The discussions around different styles and different forms of ascertaining public opinion are legitimate discus- sions.

Whether you come to a conclusion that you believe is right or wrong, it can’t be questioned as to whether it’s legit- imate or not. I really appreciate the opportunity to have this brief dis- cussion with my friend, and I look forward to his concluding comments. S. Sullivan:Thank you to the hon. member for his com- ments. I certainly don’t want him to be under the misap- prehension that this statement has anything to do with any issues that might be ongoing at this time. It’s completely independent. [R.

Chouhan in the chair.] It is very important that citizens, when they are asked a question, have a real question that can be answered, that there is good information, that these are fully canvassed and that the citizens really know what they’re voting on when they do vote. I’ll note again that the idea of repres- entation is not mathematical. It’s not just abstract. There are different ways that we perceive the community that we live in, and any electoral system, any governance system, has to take that into account. The international best practices that have been devel- oped around the world….

The United Kingdom has a very formulaic way of approaching things that I think is worth looking at. The European Union, as well, has done some very in-depth research on how to truly determine the will of the people. Of course, the citizens’ assembly model is the model that I think…. There may be other, equally legitimate models, but it certainly has set a very high bar, a very good standard.

With the 160 people that are currently here in British Columbia that stand ready and waiting to be consulted, I think that we have a huge opportunity to use their resources, their knowledge, to help us in any way we move forward in electoral reform. Hon. C. James: I call Motion 28, from the member for Burnaby North, for consideration. Deputy Speaker:Hon. Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to proceed with Motion 28 without disturbing the priorities of the motions preceding it on the order paper. 5738 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

Leave granted. Private Members’ Motions MOTION 28 — ELECTORAL SYSTEM J. Routledge:I move the following motion: [Be it resolved that this House support an electoral system where every vote counts and where the percentage of seats in the legislature reflects the percentage of popular vote.] We’ve been hearing a lot of arguments about the virtues of first-past-the-post, and I must say most of them seem specious to me.

I take issue with the assertions from across the aisle that every vote counts now under the current sys- tem because they help every constituent who comes to them without even asking who they voted for. The opposition seems to think of themselves as legislative shop stewards, and they’re missing the point. [11:05 a.m.] I grew up in Ontario, and I have voted in every election since I was old enough to do so. But it wasn’t until I was in my 30s that I got to vote for someone who actually won. That was the year I moved to B.C. My parents lived their entire lives in Ontario. Sometimes they took turns voting.

Because one was a Liberal and the other was a Tory, they figured that if they both voted, they would cancel out each other’s ballot. In those days, the values of the two main parties were so similar, it didn’t really make a difference to your family’s for- tunes which one formed government. Y ou rooted for your party the way you rooted for your hockey team. I finally did manage to convince my mother to vote for my party, and she had a good laugh when her neighbours were wondering aloud who that one NDP vote was in our poll. So don’t try to tell me that everyone’s vote counts under first-past-the-post.

It’s not about case work. It’s not about whether or not your MLA will help you when you get into trouble, even if you didn’t vote for them. It’s about whether or not your MLA shares your understanding of why you got into trouble in the first place and whether or not they will fight to change the systemic conditions so it doesn’t happen to you or anyone else ever again. Today we live in different times. In fact, we live in deeply troubled times. We see the evidence of it every time we turn on the news. In the most powerful and influential nation in the world, politics has turned into a Roman circus.

Fear and alienation are becoming defining features of our society, and it’s taking its toll on voter turnout. Any politician who hasn’t been hearing voter apathy on the doorstep hasn’t been paying attention. In fact, in established democracies, voter turnout has been in gradual decline since the 1960s. This should worry us. Look at New Brunswick, where voters went to the polls recently. Twenty-two thousand more people voted Liberal than Conservative, yet the Conservatives won more seats. And only 44 percent of young voters went to the polls at all.

In other words, the majority of people who have to live the longest with the consequences of political decisions are not participating in the making of those decisions. I’ll tell you where voter turnout isn’t in crisis, and that’s in countries that elect their governments through a system of proportional representation. For example: Iceland, 89 per- cent; New Zealand, 88 percent; Denmark, 87 percent. These are countries that score higher than Canada on the human development index and where citizens tend to be happier and feel more secure.

Those who oppose proportional representation say that our current winner-takes-all electoral system is working. But working for whom — for the 3 percent of British Columbi- ans who have 56 percent of the wealth? It doesn’t work for the growing number of working poor or for the 20 percent of the B.C. kids living in poverty. One final point, Mr. Speaker. Defenders of the status quo have argued that proportional representation will legitimize right-wing extremism. Well, it’s already on the rise, even here in British Columbia.

It’s a symptom of deep and chronic social divisions, it’s an angry response to the fear of losing one’s place in the pecking order, and it is nowhere more prevalent and dangerous than in the largest, most powerful, winner-takes-all democracy in the world. Proportional representation does not create right-wing extremism, but it could help to contain it. I submit that democracy is not a spectator sport. Pro rep can bring citizens down out of the bleachers and onto the playing field. If we invite citizens to be part of the game, they’re more likely to feel like they have a stake in the outcome.

With pro rep, we can all be winners. M. Morris:I have news for the member. Under our cur- rent system, every vote is counted by Elections B.C. — every single vote — unless the ballot is incorrectly filled out. Over the years since 1982, when our Charter of Rights and Freedoms was entrenched into the Constitution Act, 1982, there have been many challenges against the electoral pro- cess in Canada. It first started in British Columbia, here, against

section 3. [11:10 a.m.] I want to quote an observation by the Supreme Court in a case from 2003, where the court said: “In each election, a sig- nificant number of citizens vote for candidates nominated by registered parties in full awareness that the candidate has no realistic chance of winning a seat in Parliament, or that the party of which she or he is a member has no realistic chance of winning a majority of seats in the House of Commons.

Just as these votes are not ‘wasted votes, ’ votes for a politic- al party that has not satisfied the thresholds are not wasted votes either. ” The Supreme Court has recognized the fact that votes aren’t wasted, that every vote is counted. What the member’s motion refers to is support for a system that changes the res- Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5739

ults of an election, the outcome of the elections, after the votes have been cast. We have 87 ridings in the province. Who knows how many we’ll have if and when proportional representation takes place. Votes are cast. Then they come up with a system of mathematics to try and change the outcome of the vote by eliminating the regional votes that we have here. It’s a system that offends the basic democratic rights of citizens to vote for a member of the Legislature. All proposed PR models that this government is putting forward speak about political parties appointing a member of the Legislature, not the citizens voting. It’s a system that destroys the equality of voting power guaranteed by

section 3 of our Charter. Our Charter states that every citizen has the right to vote for a member of the House of Commons or of a Legislative Assembly and to be qualified for member- ship therein. It doesn’t say anything about a political party appointing a member to the House. I want to quote another case from the Supreme Court of Canada. It says: “Section 3 should be understood with ref- erence to the right of each citizen to play a meaningful role in the electoral process, rather than the election of a particu- lar form of government. It’s found in the fact that the rights of

section 3 are participatory in nature.

Section 3 does not advert to the composition of Parliament subsequent to an election, but only to the right of each citizen to a certain level of participation in the electoral process itself. ” The member and many of the members have alluded to the fact that the person that they voted for didn’t get elected. That is the consequence of a voting system that reflects the will of the people. Effective and meaningful representation is afforded to all British Columbians in the ability to particip- ate in the electoral process. The outcome of the electoral process reflects the will of the people.

Fringe parties or parties that may receive a propor- tion of the popular vote in only a fraction of the electoral districts have, in reality, received insufficient public support provincially. Proportional representation would offend the basic rights of effective and meaningful representation by converting regional results through a mathematical formula.

Again, on that note, I want to quote another quote from the Supreme Court of Canada: “Respect for the inherent dig- nity of a human person, commitment to social justice and equality, respect for cultural and group identity and faith in social and political institutions which enhance the particip- ation of individuals in society are better met by an elector- al system that focuses on effective representation rather than one that focuses on mathematical parity. ” That was from a Supreme Court case back in 1991 that dealt with electoral boundaries. Another quote.

This one dates back to 1989, but it’s been used as a foundational piece of jurisprudence in every Supreme Court case that’s looked at electoral reform. “The process of adjusting for factors other than population is not capable of precise mathematical definition. ” J.

Brar:It’s always a real honour for me to stand up in this House and to support the motion introduced by the member for Burnaby North. [11:15 a.m.] The motion reads: “Be it resolved that this House support an electoral system where every vote counts and where the percentage of seats in the legislature reflects the percentage of popular vote. ” That’s the key for our democracy. When I was a young student at the school in my village…. At that time, I grew up believing that democracy means majority rules.

Even if you ask a lot of people out there today, there will be a lot of people who tell you that democracy means majority rules. But the reality is opposite. A majority of the time, it’s a minority rule, and that’s a problem. That is not working for the people. That’s why it’s about time for a new way of voting that works for the people. For too long, the outdated voting sys- tem has put too much power in the hands of too few when the majority of the people are left out. The current voting system is not good for the people.

The Quebec election, for example, on October 1, saw the conservative coalition receive only 37 percent of the popular vote but 59 percent of the total seats. Quebec’s results are similar to what happened in Ontario last June, when Doug Ford’s Conservative party took 61 percent of the seats with only 40 percent of the popular vote. These are just two of the latest examples of our outdated electoral system. In these two recent elections, each party won 100 percent of the power with less than 50 percent of the vote.

The problem with this picture is that the percent- age of seats in the legislatures of Quebec and Ontario does not reflect the percentage of popular vote each party got, and that is wrong. We saw something very similar happen here in this province under the B.C. Liberals. Election after election, they would get less than half of the votes and grab 100 percent of the power, and it was hard-working people of British Columbia who paid the price. The B.C. Liberals made every- one pay more for everything, while cutting important ser- vices like health care and education.

On the other hand, they gave huge tax cuts, the very first day when they came into power, to the top 2 percent of rich people in the province. That’s why the B.C. Liberals and their wealthy friends are desperate. They are completely desperate to keep the old way of voting, because it works for the B.C. Liberals, and it works for the top 2 percent of rich people in the province. Clearly, the outdated voting system is not working for the people.

Too many people feel that their vote doesn’t count, that it is wasted, and that’s why people would like to change this voting system with the new proportional rep- resentation system. Proportional representation is a system used by countries around the world to ensure that everyone’s vote counts. A party that gets 25 percent of the vote gets 25 percent of the seats in the Legislature. That’s very simple. 5740 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

British Columbia has an opportunity to change our voting system so that everyone’s vote can count. The referendum to change the voting system by mail-in ballot will run from October 22 to November 30, 2018. Proportional representation can fix this. With pro rep, everyone’s vote will count. Pro rep will strengthen the voice of people from every region of the province. Parties will have to work together to get things done for the people. The gov- ernments are more stable. People have a greater sense of sat- isfaction in their democracies.

We have a chance to put power back in the hands of the regular people and elect government that works for every- one, not for the top 2 percent of rich people. We have a chance to finally put people at the centre of politics, and that’s why I support the motion that this House support an electoral system where every vote counts and where the per- centage of the seats in the Legislature reflects the percentage of the popular vote. P .

Milobar:It gives me pleasure to rise to speak to this motion today. [11:20 a.m.] I have to say that I haven’t been in this House for that long now — it’s about a year and a half — but I think this has to be one of the more, frankly, ridiculous conversations we’re hav- ing right now, given that we’re in the middle of a referendum — a time when we have been told, by Elections B.C., that we cannot even spend the money to photocopy, let alone boost a Facebook post.

Y et we’re seeing the government bring for- ward motion after motion to try to discuss, across govern- ment-funded airwaves, which will undoubtedly result in government-funded press releases, post motions, on these types of issues. I find it completely ridiculous. Hopefully, the Premier will be willing to actually set a date so that we could have a prop- erly televised debate between the party leaders, to make sure that people can understand why it is, perhaps, the Premier is hiding something.

I know that’s what I hear in my riding quite a bit, and certainly that would go a long way to maybe allaying fears that there isn’t something being hidden, when we all know that there are a lot of things that need to be worked out. In terms of the motion, we keep hearing: “Every vote will count. ” Every vote does currently count. The fact that we hear members opposite go on about it, saying, “I’ve never voted for somebody that got into power before or got elected before, ” doesn’t mean their vote doesn’t count.

What it really means is that they didn’t vote for the person who got the most votes in their riding that particular time. Under proportional representation, there’s no guarantee that your vote results in somebody in your riding represent- ing you. Otherwise, there’ d be no need to have an election. We would just self-appoint one person from every party. We’ d triple the number of MLAs in this House, and we’ d call it a day. Then everyone would feel like they have someone representing them in this House.

To suggest that under PR you will now be guaranteed that your vote will result in someone locally representing your views as a political party in this House, is, frankly, totally wrong and totally misleading. If we want to look at the sys- tem and the situation we have under this current House, we’re currently sitting in opposition with the most amount of elected seats. There has been a deal struck, and that’s totally within the rules of the game. Let’s look at what happens when you have three party members able to control the government and keep a gov- ernment in power.

It doesn’t relate to their 18 percent of the vote; it’s closer to about 4 percent of the vote, for the num- ber of seats they’re currently holding. Let’s look and see what they’ve been able to drive as a deal. Under PR, that’s what it’s about. It’s all about deal-making. It’s all about following through for your party base on what your platform was and getting those deals negotiated. Let’s look at what deals have been negotiated so far.

Of the 18 percent of the people that voted Green last time — the three seats that control this Legislature — so far all they have seen are deals that are completely self-serving for the three Green Party members that are in this House. The 18 percent of the vote has not wound up with any legislation. Zero legis- lation has been passed in this House that is not self-serving for the Green Party.

In fact, it’s down to the point that the only thing within that CASA agreement that’s actually been acted upon, of any consequence, is to be given official party status so that the three, instead of four, become an official party. This results in pay increases for the three members, but it doesn’t result in any actual policy being adopted by the government. Now, when we want to talk about “every vote counts, ” when we want to talk about making sure that people are held accountable, just because you vote for 18 percent under PR, it does not guarantee you 18 percent of the legislation being passed in this House.

What it guarantees you is that you get 18 percent of the seats. Just like with the three seats right now, you would still control the balance of power. What we’re really saying is that under PR, we would prefer that a 5 percent threshold start to control every single legis- lation period moving forward from that next election. Five percent would actually start to control the balance of power in this House. That doesn’t sound like every vote counts. That sounds like, actually, 5 percent starts to control, with self-serving negotiations.

That does nothing to advance their own party’s actual promises they make to their party members. I don’t remem- ber the Green Party advocating for Site C, yet we have it going ahead. I don’t remember the Green Party advocating for LNG, but I see that’s going ahead. I don’t remember the Green Party advocating for Kinder Morgan, yet now we have it nationalized. That is what actually happens under PR. We’re seeing it in real time. The negotiations that happened are nothing but self-serving, self-fulfilling projects that they want to see Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5741

move forward and that help themselves but don’t help their base that actually voted for those policies in their platform. In fact, I believe the Leader of the now Third Party in this House actually said after the election: “Oh, that was during the election. Platforms are irrelevant moving forward. ” Well, what makes anyone think the platforms wouldn’t be irrelev- ant moving forward under PR? Interjections. Deputy Speaker:Members. P . Milobar:They absolutely would. That is why this is a ridiculous motion. [11:25 a.m.] Deputy Speaker:Members, just out of courtesy, when one member speaks, others please listen.

Then you stand up, state your point of view. Then you get your turn. B. Ma: In the coming weeks, people across British Columbia will be receiving ballots for the upcoming elector- al reform referendum, collectively making one of the most important decisions that we can, about the future of demo- cracy in this great province. When my ballot comes, I will be voting to move away from our old and tired first-past-the- post system towards a proportional representation system.

I’m voting for proportional representation because I believe in the process of democracy, that our governments are elected to carry out the complex and diverse will of the public and that our voice into our government is through our vote. I believe that in a proper democracy, all people are equal and that all voices matter. So all votes should count towards the end result of an election. I look forward to B.C. joining democracies like Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, New Zealand, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, Ireland.

The list goes on to nearly 90 countries around the world that have embraced proportional representation as the way to allow our parliaments to be truly representative of the diversity of political opinion and the diversity of being that truly exists in this province, where 40 percent of the vote means 40 percent of the seats — not 55 or 60 percent of the seats, like what commonly happens under our current first- past-the-post system, leading to the creation of false majorit- ies. It has happened in nearly every single election in the his- tory of British Columbia.

It has allowed a plurality of voters, not a majority of voters, to decide, for the entire province, what values and principles their government should apply. I also believe in collaboration, in constructive dialogue, in compromise for the betterment of the whole. B.C. Liberal members are fond of lamenting about the B.C. Green caucus holding the balance of power in our Legislature, but if the B.C. Liberals had just been willing to work with us, we, today, could have a cooperative government representing 80 percent of the popular vote instead of 60 percent.

They are so busy fighting the future that they don’t see that their decision to refuse to collaborate is what puts the balance of power into the hands of the B.C. Green caucus. They have absolutely no one to blame for that but themselves. I look forward to throwing out the old, divisive way we do politics here, bolstered by an antiquated first-past-the-post system that tends towards keeping two dominant parties at each other’s throats day in and day out. I am tired of the hyper-partisanship that dominates politics here.

I am tired of an electoral system that encourages political leaders to be more concerned with the health of their party than the health of the public, obsessed with who did what when, whose ideas were better or worse, and majority governments reversing direction on the governments before them just to make a political point. I don’t care who comes up with a good policy idea. I just want it to be implemented, and implemented right, for the benefit of the public.

If it takes two or more parties collabor- ating, softening the edges of our distinct political ideologies to get things done together, I consider that a good thing and a vast improvement on the status quo. No system of democracy is perfect, because humans are terribly imperfect and, Lord knows, our elected officials are not infallible.

But I do believe that we can do great things together if we set ourselves up to succeed by emphasizing cooperation over divisiveness, if we build our democracy around a system that values constructive conversations and rewards politicians and political parties that know how to play well in the sandbox together, rather than parties and politicians who deploy the best partisan attacks. [11:30 a.m.] This fall I’m voting for proportional representation because I believe in democracy. The question you all have to ask yourselves is whether you do too. T.

Shypitka: Proportional representation, or PR, has many catchphrases to dumb down the conversation. Perhaps a catchphrase that is most misrepresentative and insulting to voter intelligence is “every vote counts. ” All around the world, in countries and jurisdictions that have democratic governments in place, whether or not the representatives got there by a form of PR or by a form of plurality such as first-past-the-post, there is always a gov- ernment and always an opposition. Simply stated, there are those that get to run their platforms and those that do not.

The only difference is that when a government is put in place by a form of PR, the platforms don’t resemble in any way what they were promised to at first to their constituents. That’s because with minority governments, to form a majority of 51 percent, the parties must horse-trade and deal-make behind close doors. Some call this collaboration. But to be a realist, it is an offering of sweet deals and cabinet positions to put one party in place to be government that the general public knows nothing about. The result is a platform that nobody recognizes.

Credibil- ity is shot because promises aren’t kept, and constituents are left scratching their heads, wondering who is accountable for 5742 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

the mess. So 49 percent are not getting their voices heard as being in opposition, and the other 51 percent are confused about who they voted for. This is a far cry from 100 percent of the voices being heard. When we look at every vote counting in a PR world, we have to look at all those fringe parties that will be given life, with the prospect that they could possibly join us here in the Legislature as long as they can run candidates across the province and come in fifth or sixth place — enough just to get themselves in. There are 26 registered parties in B.C.

I would dare say that you would have many of them running in a PR envir- onment when they are tantalized by the thought that every vote counts. For example, there are many that would love to see the Vancouver Island Party run, for the Island of Vancouver to be independent. That’s an actual party. More perhaps to see the Communist Party of B.C. get a few seats. That’s an actual registered party. I’m sure the Work Less Party of B.C. would get some votes, because who doesn’t want to work less? That’s an actual registered party.

Marijuana is high in the news cycle these days — pun intended — so the Marijuana Party of B.C. is bound to spark some interest here and there across the province. Maybe some new parties would come into play, like the anti-immigration parties. These far-right parties are gaining a lot of strength across the globe. All these parties will give voters across the province more choice and allow their voice to count. But not all will make the 5 percent threshold that is in place to verify their legitim- acy to sit here in the Legislature. What about all these votes that are cast aside and not recognized?

What about their voice? Do their voices count? Nope. Too bad. Their voices are tossed into the trash bin. This could technically be 10 percent or more of the electorate voices wasted. When you give oxygen to one-issue parties and more choice, be careful what you ask for. There are many examples happening right now across the world: in Germany, as the member opposite said; Sweden; New Zealand; Northern Ire- land; and Italy, where choice and a fictitious promise that every vote counts not only is untrue but is hollowing out the centre of our political spectrum and giving to the extreme sides of left and right.

When I think of first-past-the-post and hear the catcalls from those that oppose it and say my voice doesn’t count because my party never gets in, I say that is simply not true. I’m not sure what the MLAs on the other side of the floor are doing. When I’ve talked to my fellow comrades over here, they ensure me they have a constituency office that works for the people of their region, no matter what their political stripe. We all have constituency assistants in the Legislature this week. Is the other side of the House telling this House that our assistants are not doing their job properly?

I love and appreciate my CAs. They have a grueling job of tackling complaints, concerns and communications all day long. They are in constant damage control. They cer- tainly don’t ask for people’s voting cards when they come through the door. They help everyone. Here’s a short list: workers compensation claims; senior care advocacy; Med- ical Services Plan help; water licences; road, bridge and infrastructure; wildlife management issues; land access issues. I could go on.

As a matter of fact, the only time every vote doesn’t count in my riding is when I’m forbidden to talk to region- al staff by orders from headquarters on that side of the room. I take pride in representing my constituents, each and every one of them. I would certainly hope those on the other side do as well. [11:35 a.m.] In Kootenay East, every person may not exactly get what they want. No one ever will. But I can assure you that every vote counts. I will quickly add that this debate is more than five minutes, and a publicly televised debate is necessary between the Premier and the opposition leader.

Come on, Premier. What are you afraid of? R. Leonard:It is a great privilege for me to stand here today to speak to the member for Burnaby North’s resolution that this House support an electoral system where every vote counts and where the percentage of seats in the Legislature reflects the percentage of popular vote. I grew up believing in the fairness of democracy. We exer- cise democracy when we vote. The result of that vote should make a difference, or why would we bother? The fact is voter turnout is on the decline. On that point alone, we should be concerned in this House.

The voting system in place today doesn’t ensure a govern- ment that will have an ear to the concerns of the people of the province. The result of a citizens vote may make a differ- ence, but maybe not. In fact, in every election but one in the last 90 years, the majority of voters did not have a govern- ment that reflected their values and perspectives. “Every vote counts” doesn’t simply mean that every vote is counted on election night.

It means that every voter’s choice at the ballot box translates into a voice in this Legislature — a voice that is expressing their values and their perspectives on government and the laws of British Columbia. During the fall session of the Legislature, our new govern- ment took the first of two steps to grow the integrity of our democracy. We started by banning big money from politics so that the voice of the people will be the voice of govern- ment, not drowned out by the power and influence of big business and organizations.

In a second step, the people of British Columbia deserve to have every person’s vote count and have the diversity of B.C. reflected in the decisions of government. Government that is powered by the people has so much potential to create a better world for all. Democracy is not a static thing. It responds to the pres- sures and circumstances of the day. Early Canada was ruled by the family compact, an elite and empowered group of businessmen and leaders who focused on their business Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5743

interests and not on things that mattered to the vast majority of citizens — things like roads and schools. The desire for a more representative government grew. In the 1830s, democratic reform was sought through revolu- tion. Although it was defeated, the people had their way. The family compact was undone. Even with the family compact gone, Canada’s electoral system continued to be restrictive. Only landowners had the vote. Voters had to be able to read English. The vast number of new Canadians who laboured for small wages and didn’t own property pushed for a voice.

Then the suf- fragette movement that we talked about last week brought the vote for women. Embarrassingly, until 1960, Indigenous people were not allowed to vote without giving up their treaty rights or status. Our democracy, obviously, has not been static. Looking back, it’s easy to see that it needed to change, and it did change for the better. The original first-past-the-post system was built on two parties. In our 2017 provincial election, I counted 19 parties in B.C. vying for our vote. I hear there are more.

It is this cir- cumstance that results in first-past-the-post serving up 100 percent of the power to governments that have, for all but one since 1928, represented less than 50 percent of the will of the voters. Today’s government does represent a majority with more than 57 percent of voters having the balance of power. That’s because in this minority situation, two parties formally agreed on how to work together, and that’s what people are longing for. Just like a good marriage, you can disagree, but you work it out.

Speaking of minority governments, I think it is also worth shining a light on the fact that good things do happen when there is not a power imbalance in government. It was a minority government that produced our proud legacy pro- grams medicare and the Canada Pension Plan — world- renowned programs that truly define Canada. [11:40 a.m.] Democracy should fairly express our values, and those values should shape the democratic electoral system in B.C., where the percentage of seats in the Legislature reflects everyone’s vote. That’s fair, and it works to make every vote truly count. D.

Barnett:I am glad to participate in this debate, because constituents in my riding of Cariboo-Chilcotin have the most to lose under proportional representation. My riding would be one of the current rural and northern constituen- cies that would be lumped together into a few giant ridings that would be dominated by the majority of the population concentrated in the Lower Mainland.

If anyone doubts this is going to happen, just look at the wording of the motion we have before us: “that this House support an electoral system…where the percentage of seats in the legislature reflects the percentage of popular vote. ” Y ou don’t need a Droop formula to figure out that under proportional representation, Metro Vancouver’s population of 2.5 million would dominate the remaining people scattered throughout the province.

In effect, Canada’s third- largest metropolitan city, confined in an area of just 2,700 square kilometres, would dictate to a province bigger than the United Kingdom, Ireland, Belgium, Luxembourg and northern half of France combined. All provincial resources would go towards servicing the Lower Mainland, simply because that’s where the largest percentage of votes are. I know this will offend hard-core supporters who claim that proportional representation will signal an end to poverty and public dissatisfaction with government and cease the threat of a major earthquake striking the west coast.

Naturally, none of these things will come to pass, but those calling for a major overhaul of the way we choose gov- ernment want you to take a leap of faith. I find this rather ironic, because critics of our current elec- toral system are the very same ones who formed a minority government after the last election. It was, in fact, our current system that allowed two parties to combine their percentage of the popular vote in order to form a coalition. Proportional representation will change all that. No longer will a citizen choose the best candidate to serve as their local representative.

Political parties will instead choose who gets elected based on party lists. Local represen- tatives will cease to exist. Individual citizens have the most to lose, and political parties have the most to gain. Before I ruffle too many feathers on the substance of pro- portional representation, I should convey the concerns of many of my constituents who wonder why this referendum was not held in conjunction with local elections last Sat- urday. It would have made a lot of sense and perhaps encour- aged more people to participate and have dialogue.

If you look at the confidence and supply agreement signed by the NDP and the Green Party, it actually called for the referendum to be held in conjunction with the 2018 civic elections. Instead, two parties that pride themselves as being very modern and on the leading edge of technology chose to use snail mail. Why is that? And why is there no minimum threshold for participation? I thought supporters of proportional repres- entation were pro-democracy and would welcome the par- ticipation of more voters.

Only 57 percent of eligible voters turned out for the last provincial election, and given the fact that the vast majority of B.C. voters are unaware that we are already several months into the referendum campaign peri- od, the prospect of high voter turnout for a mail-in ballot is actually low. The current Premier almost promised a yes-or-no referen- dum. This way, voters would be able to express a clear choice. The referendum question is so complicated most people won’t be able to discern the difference between dual-member proportional, mixed-member proportional and whatever the heck rural-urban proportional is.

When will the Premier stand up and have a debate with 5744 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

the Leader of the Official Opposition? Many people may just elect not to participate, and that would be a shame. [11:45 a.m.] S. Furstenau:I’m happy to stand up to speak in favour of the motion today on proportional representation. We in B.C. right now have the opportunity to join over 90 democracies around the world, including 85 percent of OECD countries that operate under a proportional representation system. I think it’s best to start on the problems to be solved. We’ve heard a lot about votes counting and being counted. Let’s get into that.

At the riding level, because there are often four, five, six people on a ballot, the person elected to be MLA can be elected with as little as 35, 33, 32 percent of the vote, which means that, say, at 35 percent, 65 percent of people in the rid- ing did not vote for that MLA. So yes, on election night, their votes are counted. But after election night, they don’t count towards anything in terms of what happens in the Legis- lature. The 35 percent of voters who voted for the MLA who gets elected — their votes count towards what happens in the Legislature.

The 65 percent of voters who didn’t vote for that person — their votes don’t count. Next, at a provincial level, how does this translate? Those 35 percent, sometimes 40 percent, thresholds at the riding level translate to 39 to 40 percent of the popular vote that will deliver to one party 100 percent of power, a majority of seats and a four-year mandate, during which they can push through any legislation, any policy. It won’t matter what the opposition has to say because they don’t need their votes in the House.

One of the members spoke earlier about the fact that first-past-the-post always delivers an opposition. In fact, in 2001, 58 percent of the popular vote delivered 77 of 79 seats to the B.C. Liberal Party and no official opposition in this province for four years, which is bad for democracy. It’s bad for the people of B.C. It, in fact, demonstrates that first-past-the-post does not always deliver an opposition. It does almost always deliver distorted results based on outcomes that mean that the minority of voters give 100 percent of power to one party. What else about the system isn’t working?

Costly policy lurches. One government comes in, undoes all the policies of the previous government and costs us an enormous amount of money. We’re seeing that play out very much right now in Ontario, where, literally, the contracts that are being can- celled are going to cost in the billions for the taxpayers of Ontario. We hear about the idea of deal-making, which I think can be a pretty cynical

interpretation of what can happen under minority governments when parties and elected people come together, find their common ground, recog- nize that they have shared values and put forward policies and legislation that actually represent the desire and will of the majority of people that they represent. This is much better for democracy. I want to speak just briefly…. We met with a group of teachers last week. There was a panel of us from all three parties.

These teachers echoed the comments that we hear all the time about what happens in this chamber, particularly during question period — that they walked away feeling very cynical about the politics and governance in B.C. because they saw shouting and yelling. I think that what we want to foster is a healthier, kinder culture of politics. Proportional representation that brings us to a place where political parties need to work across party lines certainly fosters a better culture of politics. [Mr.

Speaker in the chair.] Finally, what does proportional representation offer us in terms of a long-term view of how governance and policies happen in this province? Well, under first-past-the-post, what tends to happen is too much focus on swing ridings and swing votes and not enough focus on long-term policies.

In the world today, right now, in the wake of the IPCC report on what is going to be happening in our world over the next 20, 50, 100 years — devastating impacts from cli- mate change that have failed to be met, particularly by coun- tries that are operating under first-past-the-post and not representing what the will of the people want in Canada and in B.C. — the majority of people want to see action on cli- mate change.

They have not seen that under first-past-the- post government, and we’re seeing an increasing number of provincial leaders across this country who are saying that cli- mate change action actually is not a priority for them. Once they get elected in with a majority, they will be able to under- mine and undo that action. We need change. We need it now in B.C. I look forward to this referendum, and I look forward to us modernizing our democracy. [11:50 a.m.] M. Lee: I wish to rise to speak to this motion. Like many other British Columbians, my parents came here to Canada as immigrants.

They wanted to build a bright future in this province. This fundamental question that’s being raised here, for the past year, on the basis of power — how did we come to this? It was not about electoral reform. It was about what issue would bring together the current government with the support of the three Green Party members. This hasn’t been the sort of comprehensive approach to electoral reform that you would expect for British Columbia.

Under our current first-past-the-post system, across this province, we have the opportunity to form strong majority governments, majority governments that win the majority of support from British Columbians. We need to find more balance in this House. But the parties that do that are the ones that are able to provide to voters in this province the broadest set of policies, that find the right balance among all the issues that we talk about in this House every day: environmental, health, education, eco- Monday, October 22, 2018 British Columbia Debates 5745

nomic, mental health, our relationship with Indigenous peoples, to name a number. These are all issues that we have to deal with as political parties. To form that consensus, to forge that plan for the province for the next four years, to win that mandate — that comes apart when we start to divide this House more by single- issue parties under proportional representation. This is what is at stake here. This is why we need to ensure that British Columbians understand the convoluted electoral reform ref- erendum that they’re being presented with here.

There are so many details to be left after the vote, details that the Premier should be standing up and debating with the Leader of the Opposition in public at this time. Ballots are being received in mailboxes by all British Columbians now, this week, yet the Premier has not set and agreed to a date with the Leader of the Opposition, when that debate should be happening now. Our province has more pressing issues than this. We need to deal with the issues that are facing this province now for the medium term and the long term.

Having propor- tional representation only introduces the possibility of those single-issue parties — parties that resonate with certain parts of our province. I appreciate that British Columbians are very passionate about issues around the environment. I am too. Issues around regional issues, whether it’s the Vancouver Island Party or the Rural B.C. Party; issues around religion; issues around ethnicity and anti-immigration — we want to be addressing those considerations as political parties. We need political parties that are able to form government if elected.

Last election, in 2017, voters did not vote for this current combination government that they have today. In terms of policy lurch, we have, clearly, examples of where the previous government’s vision for this province — around LNG and Site C, for example — is continuing. We need to ensure that even with a minimum 5 percent threshold, we don’t open the door — as we’ve seen in Sweden, Germany, Italy, New Zea- land — to more fringe elements holding a disproportionate balance of power in our Legislative Assembly.

We also need to ensure that we have the direct account- ability between voters and members of this House and not leave it to political parties to determine who represents voters under mixed-member proportional, rural-urban pro- portional and dual-urban. We need to ensure that voters have that direct level of accountability so they can hold to account the government they elect and the members of this House who represent them in their communities. [11:55 a.m.] We need to continue to find the balance of priorities in this province, and to do that, we need to keep our current first-past-the-post voting system. B.

D’Eith: Quite simply, democracy is defined as gov- ernment by the people, the rule of the majority. How is it that the present first-past-the-post system allows parties that receive 38 to 40 percent of the vote to get a majority of seats in our House and, therefore, 100 percent of the power? How is this democracy? Look at the recent elections in Ontario and Quebec. Doug Ford’s Conservative Party became government with 40 per- cent of the vote. In Quebec, the Coalition Avenir Québec won a majority of seats in the National Assembly with 37.5 percent of the vote.

In both cases, around 60 percent of the voters did not vote for those parties, yet they govern, and they can govern with impunity, with majorities. In fact, in B.C., since 1928, there’s only been one majority government that had over 50 percent of the vote — one. Surely, that is not fair or right. Proportional representation allows the Legislature to be balanced by the popular vote. It’s as simple as that — to rep- resent the actual percentage of voting, where 40 percent of the votes mean 40 percent of the power. Of course, I can understand why members on the other side are afraid of this.

I can understand why they’re terrified, in fact. It’s because they know that they cannot hold power with a minority of voters if pro rep is selected. Now, the opposition hates the fact that the B.C. NDP and the B.C. Greens have found a way to work together. It’s meant that our government has had to work harder for legis- lation. It means that we’ve had to take other points of view into account with creating policy. I know we’ve got under their skin on this because, like pro rep, it’s simply about cooperation, and it’s better for democracy. This is how it’s worked in New Zealand for decades.

Suc- cessive, stable governments that have not experienced the same wild policy lurch of first-past-the-post governments. Parliaments with more women, more Aboriginal and more visible minority members elected to parliament. Higher voter turnout, especially with youth, which you guys would really hate. Governments with parties that have to work together and listen, where the diversity of voices is heard. But the no side cries: “But rural and remote areas won’t be represented. ” What they really mean is that with pro rep, rur- al folks won’t be represented primarily by B.C. Liberals.

The reality is that rural B.C. voters, just like the rest of B.C., hold diverse political beliefs. This was so evident in my recent travels with the Select Standing Committee on Finance. No matter where I went in B.C., people had a variety of opinions. Pro rep would mean more B.C. Liberal representation in urban areas and more B.C. NDP and Green representation in the Interior and the north. This would mean that the rural voices, in fact, would be more accurately represented than they are now. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. B.

D’Eith:The criticism by the no side that rural voters will not have a local representative under PR is simply not true. All three pro rep systems that are proposed will contin- ue to have local representation in rural areas. 5746 British Columbia Debates Monday, October 22, 2018

The no side is simply resorting to fearmongering and mis- leading statements to confuse voters. This fearmongering by the B.C. Liberals comes up again with fringe parties. Y ou’ d figure t

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20181022am-Hansard-n163
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20181022am Hansard n163
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	926cc4a7529e0f1bfe027fdbd417de83771a746f

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).