LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ALBERTA Title: Friday, March 24, 1972 2:30 p.m. [The House met at 2:30 pm.] PRAYERS [Mr. Speaker in the Chair.] head: INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill No. 32: The Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Amendment Act, 1972 MR. LEE: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill being The Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Amendment Act 1972. This bill allows for the appointment of a full-time chairman to the Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Commission.

This would allow for more extensive and very much needed initiatives in this very crucial area and can be effectively undertaken by a commission comprised only of part-time members. [Leave being granted, Bill No. 32 was introduced and read for the first time.] MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I move that The Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Amendment Act 1972 be placed on the Order Paper under Government Bills and Orders, and be seconded by the hon. Minister of the Environment. [The motion was passed without debate or dissent.] Bill No. 33: The Department of Advanced Education Act MR. FOSTER: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill, Bill No. 33 being The Department of Advanced Education Act. The purpose of this bill, Mr. Speaker, will create a new and separate department of advanced education and will in fact legitimatize this minister. It will pull together the sometimes divergent activities of advanced education in this province, and it will permit a minister to give more and greater attention to the problems and concerns of advanced education and to the many and diverse institutions of the advanced education community in Alberta. Specifically, Mr.

Speaker, it will attempt to coordinate the activities of the Universities Commission and the universities, the Colleges Commission and the colleges, vocational and technical training, continued education and student finance. [Leave being granted, Bill No. 33 was introduced and read for the first time.] Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 911

17-2 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 Bill No. 35: The Northern Alberta Development Council Amendment Act, 1972 MR. ADAIR: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill being Bill No. 35, The Northern Alberta Development Council Amendment Act 1972. This bill will allow for an increase of two in the Council, raising it to eight from the previous six. The additional membership will allow for a better balanced distribution of membership in the northern part of the province. The current membership, Mr.

Speaker, has four from the northwestern portion, or the Peace Block and the Slave Lake area, one from northeastern Alberta, and one from Edmonton. [Leave being granted, Bill No. 35 was introduced and read for the first time.] Bill No. 203: The Family Homes Expropriation Act MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce a bill, being The Family Homes Expropriation Act. In introducing this bill, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to make a few comments as to the purpose of the bill.

In situations where a municipal government or any government requires privately owned land for public buildings, expressways, freeways, urban renewal, etc, the citizens of a city or municipality as the case may be, must be prepared to pay the price of economic justice for the sacrifice to be made by individuals or groups of property owners, for the benefit of, or in the interest of, the residents of the whole city. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I think perhaps the hon. member should confine himself to the contents of the bill at this stage. MR. LUDWIG: Mr. Speaker, I will abide by your ruling.

However, precedent has been set in this House in dealing with the Bill of Rights and other matters, to give a brief introduction as to what the bill is about. But I will deal with the bill as you have ruled. The bill, briefly, deals with expropriation of family residences. Previously, the view was held that if you paid market value to an owner whose home was expropriated in the interest of the public, that was sufficient. There are numerous factors as set out in the bill that indicate this isn't sufficient. Other factors must be considered where you expropriate a family residence.

There are numerous factors, such as: age, inability to buy another home; or being settled and not wishing to move from a community; dependence on the neighbours, and other factors; which now leads me to believe that society as a whole ought to compensate these individuals whose homes are expropriated, adequately, for the purpose of relocating and not merely paying for the home. That is what the bill is about, Mr. Speaker. [Leave being granted, Bill 203 was introduced and read for the first time.] Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 912

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-3 head: INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS MR. PEACOCK: Mr. Speaker, I have the distinct pleasure and privilege of introducing to you, and to the members of this Assembly, the students of the Altadore School, Grade VI group. Their teachers, Mr. Gruwall, Mrs. Nyrose, and Mrs. Voseberg; and accompanying parents, Mrs. Kelba, Mrs. Hutchison, and Mrs. Litell, and Mrs. Brown, who have endured all the hardships involved by leaving the beautiful City of Calgary and visiting this Assembly today to observe its deliberations. I would now invite them to stand and be recognized. MR. HARLE: Mr.

Speaker, I beg leave to introduce to you and through you to the members of this Assembly, some 50 pupils of the Castor and Halkirk Schools, who are accompanied by their teachers, Mr. Morie, Mr. Topolnisky, and Mr. Heidecker, and other interested adults. They are sitting in both galleries. I would ask that they please stand and be recognized. MR. COOPER: Mr. Speaker, it's a decided privilege for me, on behalf of the hon. Speaker, to introduce to the members a group of 60 Grade IX students from the St. Thomas More School in the constituency of Edmonton Meadowlark. This is the constituency represented by the hon.

Speaker, Mr. Amerongen. While the students are here to watch the processes of the Legislature, it is safe to predict that the chief topic of conversation at the supper tables in the homes of these students this evening, will centre around their member, the hon. Speaker; distinguished in his robe, in his tie, collar and dickie, sitting in the dignified position of the Speaker's Chair. The students will leave this Chamber realizing more fully that their member is an extra special person in this Assembly. The students are accompanied by their teachers, Miss Majeau and Mr.

Lecuyer, and are seated in the public gallery. I would ask them to stand at this time and be recognized. head: FILING RETURNS AND TABLING REPORTS MR. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to table two reports previously promised to the hon. members of the House. The first one is the Sibbald report dealing with arable grazing land ratios, and the second one is the statistical

summary of transmission and railway assessments as they related to the proposed Bill No. 91 of last year. Because of the bulk of those statistics, I am only tabling four copies, and perhaps if hon. members wish additional copies, they could let me know. MR. FOSTER: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour of tabling the 1970-1971 annual report of The Universities Commission. DR. HOHOL: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the reply to Question No. 139, appearing on the Order Paper on March 17, 1972. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 913

17-4 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 head: ORAL QUESTIONS Foreign Investment in Alberta MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address this question to the hon. Premier. Mr.

Premier, given your statements on the takeover of Canadian companies by foreign-owned companies or their subsidiaries when you stood in my place on this side of the House last spring and I make specific reference to Home Oil -- could you at this time, please, make known to the Assembly your government's general position on foreign takeovers, and more specifically, the proposed foreign takeover of White Stag and Calgary Diamond Laboratories Drug Company? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, in answer to the question of the hon.

Leader of the Opposition, I did deal specifically with that matter in the question period in the two preceeding days. It is my intention to deal with the matter during the course of debate, which is, I think as the hon. leader would concur because of the nature of the question, a more appropriate time to do so.

At that time I want to extend some of the views that the government now has relative to the matter, and also to point out the nature of the proposed Select Committee of the Legislature and what is intended to be covered by that Select Committee, the importance of the government's position being such as not to prejudge the conclusions of that committee of the Legislature. We are most anxious to have the views on this important subject from both sides of the Legislature. MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, did I understand the hon.

Premier then to say that he will be giving a definite position of the government when he speaks on the Budget Debate? I want to be clear on this. MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, in answer to the question from the hon. Leader of the Opposition, I will have to repeat the position I took in the question period of two days ago. That is that it is the view of the government that insofar as its general position is concerned, I will be dealing with that particular matter during the course of debate.

Insofar as the conclusion to the question of whether this is a definitive view, my view is that it would not be, because it has two outstanding features involved. One is the desirability, I think, on behalf of all provincial governments, before reacting or over- reacting to this important question, to have the benefit of the federal government's position on the matter, which we had anticipated, frankly, we would have had by now.

Secondly, as I said in response to my earlier question, we do not go so far with the statement as to prejudge the views and the investigation by the Select Committee of the House so that, before a final definitive position is established, we have the views of members on both sides and all corners of the Legislature. MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully and I draw the conclusion (and am wondering if I am correct in this) that the government does not have a position at this point in time that they will state in regard to this particular subject.

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March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-5 MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I don't know if I can be any more clear, and perhaps the position is that it is a matter of definition as to the position of the government. A position has previously been taken by the government during the course of the election campaign. Secondly, it is my intention to deal in a general way with regard to the matter, in debate, which I think is the more appropriate place. I have placed two specific qualifications upon that position, so the conclusion that the hon. Leader reaches is entirely his own. MR. STROM: Mr.

Speaker, if I might just follow up with one more question. Would the hon. Premier then also be prepared to pass this on as a government position to the Legislative Committee when they sit, so that they would have that as a term of reference or as a position of the government? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I presume that the Select Committee will have the benefit of the Hansard remarks that I may make during the course of debate in this House, and also in relationship to any responses I have given during the oral question period.

But I want to emphasize again, I do not think that it is appropriate for the government to go too far in this position until such time as they have the benefit of the report of the proposed Select Committee that we intend to examine in this matter. Because if we do, Mr. Speaker, obviously we have reached the point where we render redundant the need for such a Select Committee. We will also reach a conclusion before any position is taken by the federal government, having regard to the many, many comments that have emanated from Ottawa as to a proposed screening process.

So I come back to those two very important qualifications of our position. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Mountain View followed by the hon. Member for Wetaskiwin-Leduc. Sorry, Calgary North Hill. I'm looking in one direction and speaking in another. Youth Hostels MR. FARRAN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to put a question to the hon. Minister of Culture, Youth and Recreation. Are you making any representations to the federal government on behalf of the youth hostels, which are threatened with eviction from the national parks due to their lack of training and facilities?

They cater to the vast majority of young Canadians who love the outdoors rather than to the minority of problem cases. MR. SCHMID: Mr. Speaker, in reply to the hon. member, this subject is, of course, of great concern to us because it has provided to our young people, at nominal cost, a shelter for the night. We therefore are asking our Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs to discuss this matter with Ottawa. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 915

17-6 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 School Sports MR. FARRAN: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. On the same subject of the outdoors, what are you doing to encourage the tremendous growth and interest in soccer among youth in Alberta? MR. SCHMID: We are preparing a press release which will indicate that we will have coaching clinics for Calgary, Red Deer and Edmonton next month. We also have acquired an instructional film for soccer, and of course at any time our staff will be able to provide consulting services if required. DR. BUCK: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. In that regard or a similar vein, Mr.

Minister, are you looking into the matter or will you be making any recommendations to the Minister of Education in trying to establish hockey, which is our national game, into the school curriculum? MR. SCHMID: This is a very good suggestion. I will discuss this matter with the Minister of Education. But I have noticed that, for instance, the game of soccer which has just been mentioned, is even being played by young girls. My own daughter who is 8 years old is playing it at school right now, in the snow, therefore I think that this will be one of the national sports to come. MR.

HENDERSON: I would like to direct a question to the.... MR. SPEAKER: Sorry, the hon. member for Wetaskiwin-Leduc followed by the hon. Member for Camrose. Foreign Investment in Alberta (cont) MR. HENDERSON: I would like to refer back to the questions that Mr. Strom was asking the hon. Premier.

I wonder if the Premier, with regards to the Legislative Committee on foreign investment in Alberta, could outline to the members of this Assembly the basis for his decision to set up a non-partisan committee of this Assembly as opposed to a partisan committee of this Assembly to examine the matter. (Interjections) It's a legitimate question, Mr. Speaker. It isn’t out of order. MR. WILSON: Could the Premier advise when he expects the Select Committee on foreign ownership to report back to this Legislature? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I think that is a matter for the committee to determine.

I would hope that we would get a report by the fall. On the other hand, the committee should decide that at its organizational meeting. I understand that we have now reached the stage, with regard to the terms and the membership of the Select Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 916

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-7 Committee, that we should be in a position within, hopefully, a week to two weeks at the most to have the motion to establish the committee. MR. WILSON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Premier, in light of the fact that every day we hear of another Alberta company being sold out to foreign ownership, do you not feel that this is of significant enough importance to warrant a special policy at this time? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I had not noted any acceleration.

I think the statistics are such that after 36 years of administration there is a serious matter of concern and we intend to look into it. MR. SPEAKER: Is this a supplementary? DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I just want this point to be clarified. Hon. Premier, maybe I missed something, but in the interim with this White Stag matter, will there not be some decision before the report of the committee comes back? Will there not be interim action? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, there will be certain items of interim action that will be taken and they will be described during the course of my remarks in debate. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Camrose, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary Millican. Testing Gas Wells MR. STROMBERG: Mr. Speaker, a question for the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals. Has the government received any complaints from the Daysland - Holden area within the past week regarding violations of the regulations pertaining to the testing of new gas wells? If so will the government insure that if any future testing is done by Great Basins Petroleum Ltd. in this area, they will put the wells on flare and separation? MR. DICKIE: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I am pleased to report that on Monday morning our department did receive complaints in respect to testing of three or four gas wells in the Daysland - Holden area. Those complaints were in the nature of some mist that was damaging the ground, also a rather offensive smell from the gas wells. I contacted the hon. Member for Camrose, in whose constituency the complaint emanated. After further discussion with parties involved, the hon. Member for Camrose and I contacted The Energy Resources Conservation Board. They immediately sent out inspectors.

Yesterday I received a report as a result of their inspection, and today I am advised by The Energy Resources Conservation Board that the complaints were legitimate. They are now being rectified. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 917

17-8 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. STROMBERG: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Will the government order any clean-up of any land where hydro-carbons or salt water have been blown onto surrounding land if the land owners request same? MR. DICKIE: Mr. Speaker, the preliminary report we have received is that the damage is negligible, but if there are more serious concerns they will refer it to the reclamation council for a decision by that board as to how they should be corrected. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Millican, followed by the hon. Member for Spirit River - Fairview. Gambling MR. DIXON: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Attorney General. Can he indicate to the House whether he has made any representation to or held discussions with the federal government, or the federal justice minister, requesting amendments to the criminal code to allow those wishing to do so, to establish off-track betting, other forms of gambling, and in particular casinos? And if he has, I wonder what response he received and did the federal government give him any indication when the amendments would be brought before the House? MR. LEITCH: Mr.

Speaker, there has been communication between my department and the federal government in connection with off-track betting. The indications from the federal government are that that legislation will not be brought before the House at this sitting of the federal House. MR. DIXON: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, to the Attorney General. If off-track is allowed, are you going to limit it to the present operators of the race track or are you going to let it out to the general public? MR. LEITCH: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I think that is a matter that will wait until the federal government acts and then we will decide what should be done. 'The Case for the West' MR. NOTLEY: I would like to direct a question to the hon. Premier. I wonder if the Premier could inform the House whether your government, sir, has ordered the Queen's Printer not to sell the book called "The Case for the West"? For your information, this is the book that has a picture of western Canada separating from eastern Canada on the cover. MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I have to take that question as notice.

I am aware of the book; I have read it and have some views about it, but as far Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 918

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-9 as any question of printing, I will have to make an inquiry and inform the House. MR. NOTLEY: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, I wonder whether the hon. Premier can tell us how many copies have been printed and what the cost of the printing is? MR. GETTY: Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could shed some light on the matter. I am not sure of the exact number, if I recall it is in the thousands. It is a book -- printed, by the way, in advance of our coming into office -- which purports to be the position of the Government of Alberta in many cases.

And since there has been a change, as all members know, in the Government of Alberta, the book is no longer factual in that regard. Therefore, we have approached and have had discussions with some of the people involved in the printing of the book, as to whether or not it couldn't become useful in some other way if there were some changes made in it; so that it would no longer be, in fact, a government publication. They have been considering this, Mr.

Speaker, and I am not sure whether they have been able to arrive at a satisfactory series of alterations, but the member has now expressed his interest in it and I will get him all the up-to-date details as soon as possible. MR. NOTLEY: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the hon. Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs could tell us where these copies are. He mentioned there are some thousands. Where are they located at the present time, and when might we have some idea as to when they might be ready for sale in the province? MR. GETTY: Mr.

Speaker, I am not exactly sure of the physical location of them. I know they have been under the control of my department. In terms of when they will be available for sale -- perhaps after the alterations they may not be worthwhile to sell -- I don't know. So we will have to see if they are ever, in fact, able to be sold, Mr. Speaker. And I think it will depend on what form the book finally takes. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Smoky River followed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge West. Grain Handling and Storage MR. MOORE: I would like to direct a question, Mr. Speaker, to the hon.

Deputy Premier and Minister of Agriculture. Has the hon. minister had any response as yet from the hon. Mr. Jamieson, Federal Minister of Transport, in regard to the letter that was written on March 10th and tabled in this House with respect to grain handling and storage facilities? DR. HORNER: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have had some response directly in acknowledgment of our letter, and also in the statement of Mr. Jamieson yesterday that funds were going to be allocated this year to Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 919

17-10 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 the development of a super-port at Prince Rupert. We welcome these statements by the Federal Minister of Transport. However, we do have some limitation in that welcome, in that announcements have been made before about the development of a port in Prince Rupert and then they were not carried forward. We also would like to say, that in addition to this development at Prince Rupert, we still need additional development in the port of Vancouver. MR. MOORE: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, will the Province of Alberta be participating in the development at Prince Rupert? DR.

HORNER: Mr. Speaker, nothing has been decided upon and we haven't been asked, at this time, to participate in that development. University Dropouts MR. GRUENWALD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Advanced Education. I am wondering if you are aware that between 825 and 850 university students have dropped out of the University of Alberta since registration time in September, about the 15th, to December the 15th. I am not talking about decrease of enrolment; I am talking about students who dropped out or withdrew. MR. FOSTER: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I am aware of that; I think the figure is closer to 1,000. I believe that is approximately 40% to 50% higher than it has been in past years. But I don't think I can comment any further than that. MR. GRUENWALD: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker, do you feel that that number, which seems high to me, is significant enough that possibly some investigation should be undertaken? Do you feel that this is important and that it should perhaps be found out what faculties are the most adversely affected? MR. FOSTER: Well, Mr.

Speaker, obviously it is a very important question, and something that we are concerned about, as all Albertans are, and I know the universities are. This is not an unusual event in the sense, as I said before, that approximately 50% of those numbers drop out annually for one reason or another, whether it is standing, financial ability, family problems or whatever. It is of some concern to me as to where these students go. It is interesting, Mr.

Speaker, to note that a number of these students, in Edmonton at least from the University of Alberta, have enrolled in the Northern Institute of Technology, so it may indicate a preference on their part that they wish to have shorter term courses that will lead more directly to immediate employment. These are factors, Mr. Speaker, which I can only conjecture about. I think the hon. member has raised a very interesting question, the answers to which I will be seeking. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Vegreville followed by the hon. Member for Clover Bar, and then the hon. Member for Edmonton Calder.

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March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-11 AGT Toll Rates MR. BATIUK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Telephones whether we could have any indication as to whether there is going to be a revision of the telephone boundaries in the rural areas of the province. MR. WERRY: Mr. Speaker, I do not anticipate there will be any revision to the boundaries, however, we are considering changing the policy. I think the problem the hon. member is bringing out is the toll free service, or extended area service in rural Alberta.

The previous government made a policy decision that they would wait until the buried cable program was completed in 1974 before they addressed themselves to this question. A committee of Cabinet, the rural development committee, under the chairmanship of the hon. Mr. Topolnisky, is reviewing this and we at AGT are, at this time, conducting a review in order to ascertain if there are alternative ways and means of providing more adequate service for rural Alberta in this area. That is a problem at this time. MR. NOTLEY: Supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the hon.

Minister could give us some indication as to when this committee can report back to the Legislature on the reassessment of the extended area service, and secondly, Mr. Speaker, whether any consideration has been given to writing off the tolls in those areas where there is an obvious problem? MR. WERRY: Well, Mr. Speaker, without getting into a full debate on this because of the magnitude of the problem, I can just enunciate a few things that are involved here.

First of all, in order to provide the more adequate exchange equipment that would be required to service the increased telephone calls emanating from a change in policy -- the ratio is something like four to one -- it would appear from an initial survey that it would cost in the neighbourhood of $26 million over the province. In addition, $1 1/2 million of revenue would be lost in tolls, so the problem is very complex. We are looking at alternative ways of increasing the toll-free or say, one-minute ratings, decreasing the rates, and also tying together various exchanges in the communities of interest.

With respect as to when the committee will report, it will make a decision only when all the pertinent information in the surveys has been undertaken. At this time I would say that the surveys probably will be completed in two months time, so the report would not be coming down while the Legislature is in the spring session. Cooking Lake DR. BUCK: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the hon. Minister of the Environment.

In view of the statement that he made several days ago that the South Cooking Lake project would not be carried out in this budgetary year, can the hon. minister give us any indication if this project will be looked at in, say, a year hence? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 921

17-12 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. YURKO: Mr. Speaker, we have identified many, many lakes that have to be stabilized. We are estimating the cost involved in stabilizing a number of these lakes, and the government will, of course, be establishing priorities in the future, in accordance with the money that is available for this type of endeavour. French Language Tourist Brochures MR. CHAMBERS: Mr. Speaker, a question for the hon. minister responsibile for Tourism. "Vacation Alberta" is a well prepared brochure, and I am sure that it will attract many visitors to our province this summer.

However, I would like to ask the hon. minister why no copies were printed in French, so we might get some Quebec tourists here this summer. MR. DOWLING: Well, Mr. Speaker, one of the first things I thought was my responsibility when we came into government was to establish a financial base under which to work, and realizing the cost involved in blanketing the country with brochures and excellent material such as this, we decided we had to concentrate on the areas where we could reap the most return.

Those areas, for the interest of the members, are the Pacific Northwest where there are 24 million people, the Ontario market, the Chicago area, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. However, we did look into the possibility of printing these in French and in other languages as well, Mr. Speaker. We looked very closely at printing additional copies in Japanese, because of the ties we hope to cement over the next few years with the Pacific rim countries. I think that does answer the question fairly well.

We are looking, however, in future months to printing a number of things in French, and these will be coming out within the next year. Village Lake Louise MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, I would like to address a question to the hon. Premier. In view of your oft-stated statements that you would be providing leadership and a strong voice in Ottawa with regard to matters that are of concern to Albertans, are you prepared at this time to report to the House the form of leadership you're going to show on the issue that is concerning many Albertans? I refer of course, to the proposed Village Lake Louise project. MR.

LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to respond to the hon. Premier. I think the matter was dealt with at length yesterday. I appreciate, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. members are concerned about the fact that they're not in the position to make political hay on an issue of this nature, but we feel it's a responsibility on our part as government, before we take positions on these matters, to assess the views of the people of Alberta, to make sure that these positions are well and properly considered by the various government departments.

When we have completed that evaluation, if the members on the other side will hold their patience, we will assure that our position will be made known and it will be effected on a government to government basis. I think this has been expressed in this House many times and it is important to establish this. We took the position that there was no way that we wanted to deal with the federal government on a junior government basis. For that reason we Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 922

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-13 have reassessed completely the attitude of the previous administration to appear as an intervener or as a complainant, or in some other way before a federal government board or any branch department of the federal government. The federal government hasn't even made up its own mind with regard to this matter, as is clear from the statements. For that reason, it is important for the Government of Alberta to present its views on a government to government basis. We intend to do so, and when we do so, we will let the members of the Assembly know. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Spirit River-Fairview, followed by the hon. Member for Drumheller. MR. NOTLEY: In view of the hon. Premier's statement, I wonder if he could now assure the House that his government will make representation to the Federal Parks Board to hold formal hearings in the City of Edmonton because of the great interest in this project, especially in northern Alberta. MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I think that's a matter entirely for the federal Parks Board. Our arrangements and our relationships would deal on a government to government basis, as I expressed.

The degree of public hearing is going to be a matter, I'm sure, that the federal government will assess. We think it's their project, that they initiated it, they sponsored it. It's up to them to decide the degree of public hearing they want. Federal-Provincial Relationships MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the hon. Premier. That being the case, why did the government make representations to a federal board this morning? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, you can raise any particular matter that you want, because I have said we're going through a revision of the whole matter of representation before boards.

There are a number of boards that because of the circumstances, preclude any other course of action. For example, with regard to the National Energy Board, we've had some real difficulty in our assessment of that. The reason for this is that we have felt under the present arrangements, that we have sometimes no other course of action but to appear before a federal board and make a representation. We don't particularly like it, and we'd like to change it.

This is one of a number of cases where a new approach and a new direction by the Province of Alberta, to deal not as a junior government as has been the case in the past, occurs. I think, Mr. Speaker, that the subject has been adequately dealt with. MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Do we understand from that, that the provincial government will be making no representations on any matter where the federal government must make the final decision? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, a very sad and confused question has got to be responded to.

Quite obviously, if the hon. member would listen, that is not the answer and I don't know how clear one can be. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 923

17-14 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. What is the answer? We are asking the question why in some cases representations are made, and in other cases representations are not made. Is the hon. Premier suggesting that the provincial government is going to make the decision for the federal government? MR. LOUGHEED: No, that isn't the answer. Village Lake Louise (cont) MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, when the hon.

Premier is making his submissions on a government to government level to the federal government, would he consider outlining the desirability of placing the bulk of the commercial developments projected or proposed, in Alberta but outside the boundries of national parks. MR. LOUGHEED: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that is one factor that clearly will be taken into consideration. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary Buffalo, followed by the hon. Member for Stettler. University Boards of Governors MR. GHITTER: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. Minister of Advanced Education.

In view of the concern expressed by the Student's Union at the University of Calgary, relating to the program cuts of the Board of Governors of the University of Calgary, has this government any policy whereby the student representatives could participate in the meetings of the Board of Governors that deal with these matters directly influencing them with respect to the programs that they will become involved in? MR. FOSTER: Mr.

Speaker, I'm aware of the interest that has been expressed, not only by students, but by members of media, and other interested groups in the internal functioning of universities and colleges, specifically through the medium of Boards of Governors. I want to point out, and this is not an answer to the students, Mr. Speaker, that the students do have representatives on the Boards of Governors. So that is one avenue open to them, but that is not the whole answer. Now, I think we all appreciate, Mr. Speaker, the need for the Boards of Governors to hold private or closed meetings on some occasions.

At the same time I think we recognize that these are public institutions and they are expending public funds. Generally the policy whether or not meetings will be open or closed, is not one within my jurisdiction or that of the government, for that matter. It is clearly within the jurisdiction of the Boards of Governors. This entire matter has sparked my interest and concern, and I am asking both commissions to provide me with a

summary of the policies of all boards of universities and colleges with respect to this Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 924

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-15 particular matter -- not because I intend to intervene, but because it is of interest and concern to many sectors, and I'd like to assess their policies. Grand Centre - Cold Lake - Edmonton Railway MR. HARLE: Mr. Speaker, I have a question of the Minister of Industry and Commerce. Did the minister attend the railway hearings being held in Edmonton regarding the Grand Centre-Cold Lake-Edmonton line, and will the province be making a submission, and what will be the policy expressed? MR. PEACOCK: Mr. Speaker, yes we did make a submission.

We are willing to table that submission. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Macleod, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary McCall. Alberta Grain Commission MR. BUCKWELL: Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Agriculture. In view of the fact that the Alberta government has moved to set up a Feed Grain Commission, can the minister tell the House whether discussion took place between himself and the federal government or the Canadian Wheat Board, and how the two agencies will co-ordinate their efforts and policies? DR. HORNER: Well, Mr.

Speaker, if I could just correct the hon. member, it isn't just the Feed Grain Commission. It is a Grain Commission for Alberta. The answer to the second part of his question is yes, we had discussions with the federal government in relation to our setting up such a body. We have had discussions with The Canadian Wheat Board in regard to setting up such a body. We have had discussions with The Canada Grains Council with regard to setting up such a body.

We offered to act as an agent to The Canadian Wheat Board, but they declined this on legal ground, but have welcomed the formation of the Commission to me, and have said that they will be glad to co-operate with us and hopefully this will take place. We are now exploring the possibility of having members from The Canadian Wheat Board and The Canada Grains Council as ex-officio members of our Grain Commission. MR. DIXON: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture, did he or the hon. Minister of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs have any correspondence with the hon. Mr.

Lang who is in charge of wheat sales and grain sales? DR. HORNER: Well, I've had lots of correspondence with the hon. Mr. Lang. If the hon. member is talking about the Grain Commission itself, I can't answer that offhand although we have had some verbal discussions with the minister responsible for the Wheat Board, and as I've already indicated to the House, we spent the entire day in Winnipeg having discussions with the Wheat Board themselves. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 925

17-16 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. DIXON: Well, Mr. Speaker, according to Hansard of two days ago the hon Minister, Otto Lang has denied having any discussions with the Minister of Agriculture or anyone else in Alberta. MR. SPEAKER: Is it a supplementary? The hon. Member for Calgary McCall. Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing MR. HO LEM: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A question to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Did the government of Alberta give a grant of $6,000 to the Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing? If so, why was this grant given? MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, off the top of my head I really can't tell you whether this happened. If you put it in the form of a written question, I would be happy to bring the answer back to you. MR. HO LEM: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Who is the chairman of the Edmonton Committee for Housing? MR. MINIELY: I just asked him if he would put it on the Order Paper as a written question, I would be happy to answer. The second question is redundant and associated with the first. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Drumheller, followed by the hon. Member for Pincher Creek-Crowsnest. Federal-Provincial Relationships (cont) MR. TAYLOR: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. Premier. Where the final decision in a matter rests with the federal government, what procedures other than making representations is it the intention of the provincial government to follow? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I think each case will be weighed on its own merits. There are a number of different approaches that can be used. Certainly, there is the legal, constitutional one; there is the matter of asking for a reassessment; there is the involvement of other provinces. Each case, Mr. Speaker, will depend on the circumstances. MR. TAYLOR: Mr.

Speaker, supplementary. Are not all of these representations? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 926

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-17 Availability of Government Securities to Albertans MR. DRAIN: My question is to the hon. the Provincial Treasurer. Since Alberta has now moved to a debt situation, is it the intention of the hon. Provincial Treasurer to allocate or adopt a policy of sales of Alberta parity bonds in order that Alberta residents can also be participants in the benefits that are going to accrue in interests? MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, in reply to the hon. member's question; firstly, I don't like the word 'now debt' because the debt was started before we were in office, as a matter of fact in 1969-70 and 1970-71. I think the word 'now debt' is not quite appropriate, if I might say so to the hon. member. In reply to your second question, and I think it is an excellent question, we have been assessing the ways and means of doing this. There have been issues in the past, in which a certain amount of the provincial debentures has been allotted for purchase of the citizens of Alberta, and they have not been taken up.

As a result, the issue has not gone well, so there are factors we have to consider in adopting this policy. But I will assure the hon. member that we will give this every consideration and we will report back to him with a proper debenture policy of the province. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary McCall, followed by the hon. Member for Spirit River-Fairview, and then the hon. Member for Calgary Bow. Positions Held by MLA's MR. HO LEM: A question to the hon. Provincial Treasurer. Are you aware, sir, the chairman of the Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing, is a Conservative member sitting in this House? MR.

KING: Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege, and I think also with respect to Rule No. 171 in our Rules, which allows a private member to answer a question in which he has a direct interest, I would like to say that the provincial government did give a grant of S6,000 to the Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing Society. I am the MLA who was referred to, since I am the chairman of the Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing Society.

The grant was given for a specific program, being a housing registry for the City of Edmonton, to aid people who are on social allowance to find adequate housing for their needs in the city. The grant is conditional upon a grant from the City of Edmonton of $26,000 for the fulltime operation of such a registry in the city. The registry, when operable, will be under the jurisdiction of the City of Edmonton and will not be directly operated or guided in any matter by the Edmonton Citizens for Better Housing Society. As of March 7, 1972, I am not the chairman.

When I said earlier that I was, it was until March 7, 1972. MR. SPEAKER: I believe the hon. member....I thought it was a point or order. MR. HO LEM: Will a similar grant be given to .... Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 927

17-18 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. SPEAKER: I understood that the hon. Member for Calgary North Hill was on his feet first with the supplementary. MR. FARRAN: A supplementary on the same subject. What is the name of the chairman of the Calgary Auxiliary Hospital and Nursing Home District? MR. HO LEM: On a point of privilege, I would like to answer that; I am the MR. SPEAKER: Is the question directed to a minister? MR. HO LEM: Mr. Speaker, in that the question is referred to me.... MR. SPEAKER: The point of privilege is whether the question refers to the hon. Member for Calgary McCall. MR.

FARRAN: I don't know, but if he is the chairman of that Board, then of course, it refers to him. MR. LUDWIG: The hon. Member for Calgary McCall got up on a point of privilege to comment on a question given by the hon. Member for Calgary North Hill, and he was denied the opportunity to express himself. MR. SPEAKER: Order please! The hon. Member for Calgary North Hill expressly prefaced his remarks by calling them a supplementary, and I take it that supplementary is directed to the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Speaker, I don't mind giving the answer to the best of my knowledge.

I think that in detail it could be dealt with in a point of privilege by the hon. Member for Calgary McCall. MR. HO LEM: I would like to say that with regard to my position with the Calgary Auxiliary District Board and Nursing Home, District No. 7, I have served on this board for some 10 or 11 years, long before I entered into the field of provincial politics. And I consider it a real honour that I be given this privilege, as a citizen of Alberta, to serve on such a worthwhile board and to give my share in what I feel is my responsibility to the senior citizens of this province. MR. MINIELY: Mr.

Speaker, on the point of privilege, I must say that I feel it is somewhat unfair that members of the House allude motives in the way in which grants are given by this government. I think that they Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 928

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-19 have originated primarily from the other side. I want to say to all concerned in this House, that as far as my department is concerned, or any department in this government, there might be a Social Credit member on a board. If the purpose is worthwhile we will give a grant. I think it is unfair to do it any other way. Big Horn Dam Reservoir MR. NOTLEY: I would like to direct this question to the hon. Minister of Lands and Forests. I wonder if the minister could tell the House whether a recreation complex is planned for the Big Horn Dam Reservoir? DR. WARRACK: Mr.

Speaker, this question was asked before, and an undertaking was given by the Premier, in which he answered it further, and the answer as of this specific moment in time is no. Village Lake Louise (cont) MR. DIXON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. Premier. I wonder if the Premier is aware of the fact that the Right Hon. John Diefenbaker has stated in the House of Commons as recently as this week, that if the Lake Louise Project is approved, it will mean the end of the whole principle of national parks for Canadians. I wondered if he shared the same view as the Right Hon. Mr. Diefenbaker?

MR. SPEAKER: We have time just for the question of the hon. member for Calgary Bow and then the question period will be over. Consumer Protection MR. WILSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the hon. Premier. What have you done, or are you planning to do, if anything, about consumer protection in Alberta? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, I believe that will be a subject that could be more appropriately dealt with by the ministers responsible during the course of the estimates. While I am on my feet, Mr. Speaker, I was asked a few days ago by the hon.

Leader of the Opposition to table documents related to submissions made by the new government of Alberta to the federal government on various matters of intergovernmental affairs. I now have these documents available for tabling in the House. I only have two copies, but if the hon. Leader or his colleagues would like more I can make arrangements to have them. They deal with the submissions made by the Government of Alberta to the First Ministers Conference in Ottawa on November 15th, 16th and 17th, 1971. The first one deals with the economic situation and employment problems.

The second one deals with federal - provincial fiscal arrangements, and I believe is the same document that is contained in Appendix B in the Budget Speech. The third one is the tri-level consultation which was referred to by the Minister of Municipal Affairs a few days ago during the course of debate. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 929

17-20 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, will a copy be made available to each member? Is that what I understand, or just one copy? MR. LOUGHEED: Mr. Speaker, we are quite prepared to do that if the hon. Leader wishes. I do not think it is necessary with regard to the second, as copies have already been available as an attachment to the budget speech. But if the hon. Leader wants to have copies of the other two documents for all of his members we are happy to oblige. MR. STROM: Mr. Speaker, we would be happy to check and then report back to the hon.

Premier as to the number of copies that we would like. Thank you very much. MR. WERRY: Mr. Speaker, before the oral question period terminates, I would like to give an answer to a question that the hon. Member for Wetaskwin-Leduc raised late last week. That was regarding AGT's purchasing policy on auto tenders throughout the province. It would appear that the policy at that time was, that only dealers in Lethbridge, Calgary, Red Deer, Edmonton and Grande Prairie were allowed to bid on autos and trucks required by Alberta Government Telephones.

The member, at that time, was correct because the garages for AGT are located in those centres, and when the purchases are made they are made for those particular points. There are also 94 dealers in those six centres out of a total of approximately 400 in Alberta, but because of the principle involved in the question that the member raised, the policy has been changed. From now on, whenever there are purchases to be made, there will be advertisements in the appropriate papers, so that local dealers will be able to bid on cars and trucks that are needed throughout the year.

ORDERS OF THE DAY head: MINISTERIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS Instructional Material s for Alberta Schools MR. HYNDMAN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to announce a new direction position paper concerning the content of instructional materials in Alberta schools. Increased Canadian content in Alberta school text and instructional material will be a major new direction of the government's education policy. Alberta's 430,000 school children should know more about Canada and should be encouraged to develop a healthy pride for their country in all its dimensions.

All too frequently we hear that the study of Canadian history takes second place in schools, that foreign road maps are used to study geography in Alberta, and that Canadians who have made significant contributions to science and the arts are overlooked. A strong and clear signal that increased Canadian content is desired has come from students, parents and citizens generally, from delegates at the recent annual meeting of the Alberta Progressive Conservative Association, from government members of the Legislative Assembly and from The Advisory Board on Curriculum and Instruction.

Details of this new policy and the method of its implementation will be worked out in the months ahead. New ideas and suggestions Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 930

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-21 from all citizens will be welcome. An assessment and implementation group is now being set up to do the following:

(1) To pin point courses in which there is the greatest need for Canadian content; (2) to develop a long range plan for increasing Canadian content in all instructional materials, and increasing their availability; (3) to consider the extent and the methods by which incentives could be given by government to local boards and schools to encourage them to implement the new policy; (4) to assess the availability of potential Albertan and Canadian authors who could write new text and teaching materials; (5) to provide information as the cost implications of the new policy and its possible affect on the publishing industry in Alberta; (6) to consider whether increased use of low cost paperback texts is feasible and desirable; (7) to assess the effect of this policy on the existing discretionary powers of boards and teachers.

It should be emphasized, Mr. Speaker, that the quality and degree of excellence of a particular text will be the main criteria for its distribution. That the government is not embarking on a policy that would result in a priority being given to a third-rate Canadian text over a first-rate British or American text. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, the timing of implementation of this new policy will be very carefully considered in order to minimize such increased costs and course content changes, as will affect parents, students and teachers. Motor Vehicle Registration Information MR. COPITHORNE: Mr.

Speaker, in the past, information regarding those who have bought license plates in the Province of Alberta has been made available for a fee to commercial companies, which has contributed significantly to the invasion of privacy through mail. Mr. Speaker, I wish to announce, that commencing with this year's registration, data in bulk form will no longer be supplied, either to individuals or firms. At the present time

Section 4, Subsection 11, of the Regulations under The Highways Traffic Act, provide for the supplying of such information on a contract basis. This regulation will be rescinded because it is felt, by this government, that it is a direct infringement upon the privacy of individuals who have purchased license plates in the Province of Alberta. Slave Lake Special Development Area DR. WARRACK: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that we are in a position as the Government of Alberta to accept proposals for developing a large selected block of poplar timber in the Slave Lake Special Incentives Area.

This area will provide a continuous allowable cut in excess of 110,000 cords per year, sufficient to support a flake board plant with an average annual production of 100 million square feet of 3/8th inch board. This size of plant would approximately employ 150 people. Additional poplar could be made available to future expansion of any such plant. The proposals to develop this timber resource must be submitted by April 30, 1972. A public hearing will be held to assist the government in the selection of the most favourable proposal.

The successful applicant will then enter into a forest-management agreement with the Government of Alberta. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 931

17-22 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 Mr. Speaker, of the 59 billion cubic feet volume of Alberta lumber resource, 23 billion of this is poplar, often also called aspen. It is of an extremely important nature that we are able to utilize and find ways to further utilize this large volume of timber that has previously not been very marketable in the world timber market. So I am very pleased to make this announcement and I would like to table it for you and for the members of this Assembly. BUDGET DEBATE DR. BACKUS: Mr.

Speaker, I think I may have made an error last night in allowing my medical concern for the members to let them get to bed early. I see this afternoon that they are all bright eyed and sharp and therefore liable to be more critical. However, Mr. Speaker, I would like to rise and speak to the debate and, in so doing, I wish to add my congratulations to you Mr. Speaker, in your appointment and the excellent rapport you have with the House, and to recognize the high standard of speeches that have preceded me. So many have shown such real concern for the people of their constituencies. I, too, Mr.

Speaker, have a debt of service to the people of my constitutency, as it was their faith in me which placed me in the office I now hold. It was a desire to serve this area of the province which originally persuaded me to accept the challenge of running for this position. I have lived in Grande Prairie for almost 16 years, and have been very close to the needs and concerns of this community. For those many years, I was aware of the feelings of the people of this part of the province, that they were forgotten and not represented. Therefore, Mr.

Speaker, it was my intention to come here and try and make those needs heard. With two large centres in Alberta providing most of the facilities for the people of southern Alberta, it is hard for them to realize that the people of the northern half of the province are from 300 to 500 miles away from these facilities. The struggles of the pioneer people in these areas have done much to improve their lot, and Grande Prairie has become a good place to live. But their efforts need the support of government.

This area consists of the city of Grande Prairie, and three smaller towns of Hythe, Beaverlodge and Sexsmith, and many smaller communities, as well as a large rural area. They need better communication and transportation facilities. They need better medical and mental health facilities. At this point I would like to praise the words of the hon. Minister of Health and Social Development, when he showed that recognition by many of his proposals in the field of mental health, the development of sheltered workshops, and other facilities. They also need real consideration for their utility costs.

They need encouragement in developing industry, and the budget of this government shows a real desire to assist in this direction. At the same time they must be allowed to preserve the recreational facilities and the unique way of life that is still a character of this land. The letter tabled by the hon. Minister of Agriculture stating that he was looking to the establishment of an inland terminal in Grande Prairie, was very much appreciated.

Such a move would not only benefit the people of Grande Prairie, but would benefit the people of the Peace River country and might hopefully increase the significance of the ARR. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 932

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-23 The proposal of the hon. Minister of Industry and Commerce under The Alberta Opportunity Fund is of vital importance to a growing community such as this area. I know that there are several very interesting private enterprise projects that are waiting for this legislation in order that they may go into operation. I also appreciated very much the words of the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals.

He suggested the possibility of an energy corridor in Alberta, because this of course would mean a great deal to the North, not only as a subsequent route for this pipeline, but during the construction of the pipeline, would increase very much the labour and manpower needs of the area. Although this area is partly an urban area, it is also a rural area with a large farm industry, consisting of many family farms. The efforts that this government is making to improve the farm situation and aiding the family farm by directing a large portion of it's budget to agriculture, is truly appreciated.

I would, however, like to stress the need for a veterinary clinic in this area, and with the expanding livestock farming in the area, there is an increased need for an adequate veterinary service. My recent discussion with the hon. Minister of Agriculture indicates that his department is giving serious consideration to this.

Reference has been made by the hon. member for Calgary Millican to the old adage; "the difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer." And the miracle by our Premier, anticipated by the hon. member for Pincher Creek-Crowsnest, would suggest that they think we are attempting the impossible. But the directions of this government are dreams beyond the wildest imaginings of previous governments. Mr. Speaker, walking on water by a normal mortal is not impossible. I do it all the time, when it is frozen.

As Columbus said when he stood an egg on end: "it's easy when you're shown how." It was a surprise and honour to me when I was given a portfolio, and Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak for a moment on this department. Firstly, I would like to praise my predecessors on the excellent job they have done in developing a department that was basically sound. They commenced certain reorganizations which have been completed, and in spite of the fact that the completion of this reorganization has increased slightly, salaried employees in the department, I believe time will show that these changes were good.

I would not pretend that I am going to introduce major changes in the Department of Public works. But this does not mean that I am not going to introduce reform in the department, because upon taking over I found that there were certain aspects of the department that required reformation. The public image of the department was poor, whether justifiable or not. It has become one of my aims to improve this image by free consultation with those in the private sector who are involved with the department, and with their co-operation to try and draw up policies that are more acceptable to them.

One way in which this was done was with regard to the employment of consultants in architecture and engineering. At a meeting with representatives of the associations of those two professions, a policy was drawn up establishing a committee in the department which would consider all requirements for private consultations. Their consideration is based on geography, ability, capability, and finally a fair rotation of opportunity, taking into consideration value of recent contracts by government. The findings and recommendations of this committee are reviewed by myself, but the decision is made by the committee.

This removes possible accusations of political involvement in the decision. Secondly, the morale of the department was at a low ebb. I have tried to improve this by a free consultation with the personnel in the department, from the deputy to the smallest wage earner. We have been trying to develop a team spirit with an input from all levels in Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 933

17-24 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 the department. I have introduced a job costing program for two reasons, so that the worker can see the degree of efficiency that he can obtain, and to provide figures for a true comparison with the private sector, because it is our intention to use the private sector wherever practical and economical.

The result of some of these reforms was shown by the tremendous response by this department, when even before the federal government introduced their Winter Works Program, the PEP committee asked for winter jobs, and the department came through with an inventory of possible projects scattered throughout the province within a matter of a day or two, and continued to work in co-operation with this committee in a way that brought forth the frequent praise of the PEP committee. Two other reforms have been initiated. One is that we are developing a program of shelf planning.

This has been discussed and heartily endorsed by the Associations of Architects and Engineers, and will take a number of projects to the point where they are ready for tendering and then hold them until such time as finances or the need for employment in a certain area will permit the immediate implementation of the project. Thirdly, we are trying to develop long range planning. I am reminded of a previous speaker who said that none of our ideas are new ideas, and I know there is nothing new these days. Certainly long range planning is not new.

I also remember a sermon that was preached in Red Deer when I was a child, the significance of which must have impressed me, in that I still remember it. He said that a minister never tells his congregation anything that is new, but sometimes he puts it in such a way that someone realizes the truth of the old concept and does something about it. After all, it is not the newness of the idea that matters, but whether somebody does something about it. These reforms are not physical changes, but are people changes. I believe that is what this government is all about. Mr.

Speaker, there are a few points that I wish to bring to the attention of this Assembly. It has been noted that over recent years, there has been a steady increase in the cost of leasing of accomodation. This has been partly due to increasing accomodation, but is mainly due to the steady increase in the rental rates being required by the private sector. I hope that later this year I will have the opportunity of presenting to the House a position paper that will compare the relative merits of leasing and building.

Another tendency over recent years has been for other commissions and boards to develop their own small public works departments. These agencies claim that they were not getting the service they expected from the Department of Public Works and therefore formed their own splinter facilities. Already we have taken steps within the department and in the government to reverse this tendency, not with the object of building up the Department of Public Works to the huge monolith that it was a few years ago, but to cut down on the duplication of facilities in government.

To assure that the original complaints which began this fragmentation will not recur, we are establishing a close planning liaison within our department by appointing a planning coordinator, which will give a better service to the client department and at the same time, will facilitate the long range planning that is so desirable. Finally, I would like to question the many references made to the number of members from the medical profession on both sides of the present Legislature.

I understand that the previous Legislatures tended to have more chiropractors, and I wondered if it is better to treat the ills of this province with good medicine and the surgical removal of diseased parts or by manipulation? Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 934

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-25 MR. D. MILLER: Mr. Speaker, as I rise in my place to take

part in this Budget Debate, I'd like to complement all members of the House for their talks in the Throne Speech Debate, as well as the Budget Debate this far. I've enjoyed them all, some more than others. I find it more difficult to speak as a member of the Loyal Opposition. Likely, this new role demands a continuing questioning and challenging attitude of all of us, especially when I would rather agree with most of the things that are progressive. Labouring with my thoughts, I imagine this is a meaningful place to be, that we on this side are important and necessary in our form of government.

One of the greatest gifts that God has given to man is an imagination, and creation has made provision in our mental equipment for the constructive use of the power of thought. By means of imagination, we may go forward or backward. The imagination moves faster than light, and is more productive than electricity. The magic of the world of miracles and wonders has been brought about largely by what dreamers and thinkers have done with their imagination. This is not to say that all which comes from our dreams and our thoughts can be used without experimenting and testing.

Ideas and recommendations may be stimulated or discouraged by discussing and explaining them to others. I suppose that is the main purpose of this debate. Failures may contribute as much to accomplishment by teaching us what to avoid, as successes point out the paths to follow. If the proposition is good, it usually goes forward by the opposition of its elements. The airplane could not fly without resistance to the atmosphere. A prize-fighter develops his ability only by the skill and punishment which comes from his sparring partner.

In the play of life, there is always something to dispute with the passage to success. So, my colleagues, take courage. Hopefully our loyal opposition will offer sufficient resistance and bring about only that which is good and best for all Albertans. Mr. Speaker, under the topic of agriculture; in that department, the government has announced with renewed emphasis their intention to improve the farm income. I am sure this is good news for all. The new marketing thrust was started, of course, by the previous government, and has proven its effectiveness to western agriculture.

We can no longer wait on senior government to promote the sale of our huge surpluses. Experience has proven we can improve our trade with more aggressiveness by direct sales representatives to foreign countries. This, as well as advertising programs, or a program to buy Alberta goods, will create a general awareness in a united effort for Albertans to help themselves. Increasing the demand for Alberta farm products will increase the movement of our surplus, provide greater cash returns, and save the family farm. Mr.

Speaker, increased mental health programs for treatment and prevention, as well as greater consideration for handicapped children and adults, are presently needed and hopefully will get started early. Increased compensation for permanently disabled workmen is worthy of our attention and our commendation. But my question is like that of some of my colleagues on this side. Why not increase the rate of assessment to industry, which should actually provide for this increase?

Under education, I am reluctant to agree with any increase in funds for our universities, at least not until they present a revised policy statement, which reflects a more positive attitude or concern by the professor for the student, and improve the total environment in this area. The environment in the home and the school can influence us to become discouraged, or it can build us up in hope and accomplishment.

I believe it was William James who said: "We can be what we will to be." In contrast to such positive thinking, a professor in one of Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 935

17-26 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 our universities, in his opening remarks in the first term of 1971, made the following remarks to his class; that the course would be difficult and require much effort, but it was only fair to say that regardless of how hard they tried, 75% would fail. With such a negative attitude coming from the instructor, one can almost feel an atmosphere of despair. For all the class members it would require considerable determination to continue, apart from the unhealthy atmosphere created by the professor or whoever directed him to make such a statement of policy, or formed the policy.

Surely neither parents nor government wish to continue spending money on this type of negative direction with only a 25% return. Perhaps this would account for the question that was asked. Why so many dropouts in our universities? Mr. Speaker, I wish to express disapproval of another part of the budget, that of increasing the homeowners' tax discount to senior citizens, calling it an educational tax rebate. To me it is a program to fulfill an election promise, which was a wild decision, a most inequitable policy and will create much dissatisfaction.

It discriminates against those in modest homes and provides increases to those of higher assessments. The option benefits "the haves" and not the "have not" senior citizens. For example, a senior citzens home assessed at $8,000, at a 30 mills tax discount would equal $240.00 tax credit. The example points up the fact that the real need is not given to the senior citzen with lower assessment of say $2,500, who would only be entitled to the present homeowners tax discount of $75. $2 1/2 million is budgeted for this tax rebate, to help senior citizens in the higher class homes.

I don't wish to belabour this point because others have spoken of it. I feel sure that the government regrets the announcement of such an unequitable program. We can include the shelter grant as another announcement which disturbs me. A $50 grant per year to all senior citizens renting living accommodations, which is less than $5.00 a month. This will be of no help to those for which it was intended, resulting in rental support only to the landlord. Two million dollars is set aside for this program, this give away program to property owners, because that is where it will go without a freeze on rentals.

Surely this could have been put to more effective use. My suggestion is building a nursing home in Taber, or a senior citizens' home in Milk River, and you would still have money left. Mr. Speaker, I must now express my appreciation for the refreshing speech of the hon. Member for Edmonton Kingsway. His talk was filled with so many recommendations to decentralize health services, and was given with such speed and enthusiasm I hope I will never forget it. And I am sure, you knew what he was talking about and it was researched well.

However, I would suggest that if any part or all of his plan is adopted, we move into it with caution, introducing at first pilot projects with the main objective to reduce duplication as well as costs, in health and social services. Yes, costs, of health's social services. Let it be our greatest concern. Some time ago, travelling to Lethbridge from Calgary, I enjoyed the companionship of a prominent physician from British Columbia. As we became more friendly, I asked him to give me his assessment of our national medical services program. His reply was quite abrupt and he had it really coined.

He said, "if health costs continue uncontrolled, they will break all the governments in Canada." Then he proceeded to explain what some of the larger health centres were experimenting with, different methods. One in particular which was intriguing to me, and it was termed something like this, if I can remember correctly, the name he gave to it, and the type of services they were using: it was the laboratory diagnosis through computerized analysis. I suppose the hon. doctor from Edmonton Kingsway knows what I am referring to and is likely knowledgeable of the plan. How successful it is, I don't know.

But he expressed Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 936

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-27 great hope in it or something like it which would help eliminate the duplications of health services with which we are frustrated now, and the increasing costs. In part of my constituency we have a pilot project, in a measure, similar to this. Only in certain services of course, with preventive social services attached to the regional health unit. In other areas of the province, directors of preventive social services limit themselves to this area alone,

whereas in the Barons-Eureka unit the director and assistant director are involved in social service duties as well, interviewing people who claim they need public assistance. It is the opinion of the health unit board that this integration is very favourable in many ways. It has been operating for two years, not only for the welfare of our residents but also with respect to the tax dollar.

It is unfortunate that the existing Preventive Service Act does not allow directors to undertake any additional responsibilities, Working for a health unit, there would be no limit to counselling services, encouraging local authorities to provide job opportunities, and many other ways. For those whom the directors know and see frequently, interviews could be set up and the unemployed employables could be placed in valuable employment. In conclusion, I wish to emphasize again that motion No. 1 proposed by the hon. Doctor from Kingsway is a good one.

Implementing the concept is a major one at the community level, to include health services, social development, as well as preventive social services with an overall objective of reducing duplication of services and total costs. Thank you. MR. TOPOLNISKY: Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to participate in the Budget Debate. I wish to congratulate all hon. members who have thus far contributed to the debate. We have had some very fine speeches on both sides of the House, and I enjoyed them. Most of you are aware that my concern is rural Alberta.

I have a rural background, both by birth and choice, having served on town councils for a number of years and I still operate a family farm. Small farm problems and small town problems have come close to my heart. These places must not die. Alberta would be much poorer if the small town way of life were to disappear. We do not want the wonderful rich soil of Alberta to become a barren hinterland and we must strive to stop this massive evacuation from the farm. We must introduce a new type of pioneer. We must find new incentives to have our youth learn to appreciate the land that our forefathers prepared for us.

Surely there must be a way. If in 75 years the modern Alberta that we have today has come out of the wilderness, how much more beautiful an Alberta can we produce in the next 75 years with modern know-how and technical means? Let us not create deserted countryside, where weeds come tumbling down because no one lives there. I can assure you that a great deal of the plights of families in the cities are much sadder than those in the country. Let us invest in people. I wonder if we could budget our welfare allowances in such a way that we could help people help themselves.

Perhaps unproductive welfare could be converted into salaries, for a great deal of work that lies undone in rural Alberta and I dare say, in modern cities as well. Surely, in this day and age man should be proud to earn his keep. I quarrel not with welfare allowances. There are many who are unable to earn them, but likewise there are many who can. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that our new budget reflects the priority which our government attaches to assisting senior citizens. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 937

17-28 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 It is a budget which reflects our determination to maintain the family farm as a basic part of the social fabric of Alberta, to provide greater employment for Alberta and to diversify economic activity in the province. Our agricultural sector has unfortunately experienced decline in net farm income in the last few years. This situation in Alberta requires new policies and new approaches.

The immediate program priorities outlined in the Speech from the Throne, reducing financial burdens for our senior citizens of Alberta of Medicare premiums, of the 30 mill property tax in the school foundation levy, no annual driver's test for those over 70 if they have a safe driving record and are in good health. This, Mr. Speaker, is our reward, in a small way, to the many pioneers for their contribution to Alberta's progress over many years. It is this generation that has laid a strong foundation for future generations on which to build and make Alberta what it is for us to enjoy. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, with their pioneering spirit -- they faced demands of a hard life in their early days. In their faith, they dreamed, they hoped and prayed for peaceful homes and happy families, as they worked against odds to make their dreams come true. Yes, these are the 'now' senior citizens who raised and educated their children under extreme hardships. They lived through two world wars, one serious depression, with no family allowances, no welfare and no homeowners' discount. They deserve to be our top priority. And for this Mr. Speaker, the hon. Mr. Premier is to be very highly commended.

In accordance with our government's commitment to increase net farm income in Alberta, the 1972-1973 budget provides for an increase of 32% to fund a new agriculture marketing thrust, and an increase of 46% for family farm development and a new Farm Purchase Revolving Fund, The Agriculture Development Fund, The Alberta Opportunity Fund, to improve and diversify our economy. I recall a budget not so long ago when there wasn't a single dollar for agriculture.

Farm consolidation or land bank provides for the purchase of agricultural land from elderly or disabled people and younger farmers embarking on a retaining program. Land is subsequently resold to develop viable economic farming units. Rural credit provides for a farm loan program to assist marginal income farmers to expand into a more economical operation to assist in the preservation of the family farm. In agriculture development, it is possible to identify three quite different groups of farms requiring three quite different kinds of policies. First are the viable farms which are generally doing quite well.

The policies for these farms need to provide for technical and market information; development of new technology; access of capital; vocational education for the people who will manage them; Second are the potentially viable farms which, if given an injection of adequate capital and managerial advice could be brought over the threshhold of viability and yield their occupiers a good standard of living; Third are the non-viable farms that cannot possibly yield their occupiers a decent standard of living at any conceivable level of product prices.

These need additional occupations for both income and to raise living standards. Rural development means many things to many people. My philosophy is that it has economic and social implications. Any change for better or worse is due to economic reasons. The forces of change often lie outside the communities involved, even outside the Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 938

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-29 province, such as grain marketing, farm machinery, and labour costs. Any future planning in rural development has to encompass the whole of rural Alberta, and I am looking at the province outside of metro growth areas of Calgary and Edmonton. Rural development is affected by the operation of all existing government departments, federal, provincial and municipal with their combined programs. Individual departments tend to organize in a specialized manner, yet rural development is involved in and encompasses all specialized fields.

Therefore, an integrated approach is required to facilitate the complex and inter-related problems and challenges of the development of natural, physical and human resources. In rural development we must be sensitive to our public needs, that is areas of a greatest need, and provide a flexible integrated approach. We have to involve people in defining needs. We have to encourage public participation and involvement in program development.

It is necessary to establish guidelines and goals and it is also necessary to assess the present activities and incentive programs to determine a new course of action and new programs. We will have to survey the information on federal provincial programs and services which are available to rural areas. It is necessary to look at industrial development, agricultural development, and land utilization. Economically and socially the family farm has strong advantages. Communities which are prepared to take the initiative to help themselves should be encouraged and supported.

We should be developing programs to assist the smaller farmer, the small businessman, the senior citizen, the young Albertan, the homeowner, and the unemployed. The present farm situation is not a healthy one. There are approximately 69,000 farm units in Alberta, of which about 44,000 earn $3,000 or less from their farm operations. This does not mean that all live in poverty, since in some cases, these are one-man operations, and in other cases, farm families use substantial amounts of farm products which alleviates the real income of the families.

Many will continue to live on marginal farm units, in spite of lower living standards, because of the desire to lead a country life. And eventually some may become viable farmers. It is indeed sad that these hard working people are the ones who are adjusting to a gradual decline in their standard of living. As far as I am concerned there is hope for the future of rural Alberta. The idea that the small community is dying is prevalent amongst many executives, and perhaps government policy in the past was that the small community is unimportant, it is disappearing, so there is nothing we can do about it.

We have the attitude that the small farmer, the small business, the small community can survive. With new policies and new directions, the trend toward urbanization can slow down and, in fact, reverse. We should not base our decisions on the future of the small farms solely on economics, but on social and cultural aspects as well. Many people are well aware of the congestion, the pollution, the crime, the high costs, and alienation in the cities. For them to move to the city, life would deteriorate.

Government should be concerned, not only with economics, but with the whole quality of life, and I believe that everyone should have the opportunity to choose the sort of social environment he wants to live in. Some people want the independence of the farm, while others prefer the rich cultural and economic opportunities of the city; some like the security and friendliness of a small farm, and a small town. If the current trend continues, people a generation or two hence will have no alternative but to make a home in the city.

I feel that for many people, especially for young families, the small town life is a good one. It provides a stable social Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 939

17-30 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 environment in which the individuals can feel a part of the community, and accept some responsibility for the way their community develops. I believe very strongly that the Canadian society would be poorer if the small town way of life disappeared. Let us look, for a moment, to the causes of rural decay. The communities which are declining are doing so because their sole economic base is agriculture.

As the number of farmers falls, as transport technology and roads improve, and as businesses benefit from economies of scale, agricultural services are concentrated in larger places, and the small places are the losers. The only way these towns can be saved from slow, painful, and costly decline is to diversify out of the declining agricultural service function and into labour intensive secondary industry. Also by lowering the cost of business operations in small towns, perhaps many enterprises could be set up there, rather than in Edmonton or Calgary.

Possibly a few established businesses in the cities might even move out and take advantage of the lower costs. The key to the whole problem is to find ways in which to reduce business costs in smaller centres. The decline of smaller communities is imposing some severe social and economic costs on both the individual and the taxpayer. Public investment in schools, roads, and utility systems is under-used. As populations fall, towns are unable to support some of these services. At the other end of this movement, the population receding areas are also experiencing rising costs.

Ironically, the under used facilities of small towns must be duplicated in new city suburbs. Farm communities require industry, but what does industry require from a community? The location of industry can be a major factor in the economical environment and growth of a community. New industry provides more direct employment, may attract more people to the community which would require additional services.

The factors that industry will look for are: (1) raw materials, their availability from nearby distributors, their quantity and quality, and a reasonable cost of production to spell survival of industry; (2) manpower; available labour supply to meet required volume, skill, and stability; (3) general living conditions; conditions under which employees will reflect either good or bad performance, housing, recreational, and educational services are a must; (4) power; the cost and type of power available may be the key factor; (5) community services; large amounts of water and adequate sewer facilities, police and fire protection, and all civic services maintained for general public welfare; (6) legislation and taxation; industry looks for a business climate in which it can expect understanding, respect, and fair treatment from public servants and civic officials; (7) markets; a local market is not the primary consideration in every case, however it is desirable that a plant be located geographically near a domestic market as well as other markets.

Industrial development can open up new challenges and opportunities to communities, and I am therefore pleased that the budget has an Alberta Opportunity Fund to promote small industries in rural areas. A few specific factors to help the family farm:

(1) By improving market opportunities for the family farm to market all types of produce. There could be a system of grading stations for eggs at strategic points throughout the province. We would expand these grading stations to be receiving stations for farm produce in a number of lines. These stations would become a farmer's market in their local area. Surplus produce would then be removed to a central wholesaleing area and processing, or go into the general market stream. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 940

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-31

(2) By making sure that the family farmer has the opportunity to produce and market as opposed to vertical integration.

(3) By a diversified and multiple use of credit on realistic terms to help the family farm get into a position to improve its income. There should be short term credit, intermediate term credit, long term credit and very important, operating credit.

(4) Major expansion in smaller processing plants throughout Alberta in a whole variety of fields associated with proper production techniques, tied in with local geographic agriculture production. We would anticipate that agricultural processing would take a major share of the rural incentives industrial scheme. At the moment, there is real opportunity in this area to meet our own domestic market, particularly in the dairy industry. A good example of a secondary industry in my constituency is the new alfalfa plant of which I have the economics here, but we'll not go into them in detail at this time.

(5) By developing an attack on farm costs. The cabinet committee on rural development is reviewing all rural utilities, including A.G.T. There is some present dissatisfaction with the telephone service in rural Alberta. The program to provide telephone service to the closest trading centre was to begin in 1975 or 1976, and now the new Minister of Telephones and Utilities has indicated that this will be advanced two or three years. The committee is gradually reviewing with the power companies the problem of the REA Associations and hopefully will be able to suggest alternatives to the previous policies.

The farmers built and own the power lines, therefore they should have some control and own their own business, and not the power companies. We're looking at the possibility of supplying natural gas to rural Alberta, to be available to farmers along the same lines as power. Hopefully, they would have more protection and control over this utility than they now have over the REA'S. Therefore we hope to set up a Rural Utility Authority to oversee all utilities for the protection of rural customers. Agriculture in Alberta is in good hands.

Early last fall, Agriculture Ministers of the three prairie provinces ignored party lines and showed solidarity in their submissions to Ottawa. Then, in November the agriculture ministers of the ten provinces drew up a massive document of proposals for the future welfare of agriculture and submitted it to the federal Minister of Agriculture. Though many of the proposals had been advocated on separate fronts over the years, this was the first time that all Canadian provinces presented a solid front on requirements to reinforce and stabilize agriculture across Canada.

Not so long ago, Ottawa was talking about winding up the small farms. Two-thirds of the farmers must go, was the idea. This concept crumbled when the federal Minister of Agriculture accepted the provincial ministers' submission a few weeks later and the hon. Bud Olson announced a small farm development program with $150 million attached to it. That, Mr. Speaker, sounds like the hon. Dr. Hugh Horner, our dynamic Minister of Agriculture, who has applied pressure to bear.

With his policies of marketing as the key to expanding the industry increasing farm income, and revitalizing rural communities, an optimistic trend is showing up in almost every community in Alberta. Mr. Speaker, my constituency is composed of two old constituencies -- Redwater and a large portion of Willingdon-Two Hills, and on the extreme west, a portion of Athabasca constituency, taking in the village of Clyde. The new constituency of Redwater- Andrew is a very vibrant agricultural constituency.

This can be borne out by past agricultural achievement, such as master farmers, two world championships in grain, of which I am proud to have been a part as a member of the Grain Club years ago. We have a number of very active and effective 4-H beef and dairy clubs, several families are keenly interested in livestock shows. They have been constant exhibitors and often captured top awards in Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 941

17-32 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 Toronto, Regina, Calgary, and this weekend we hope to see them in Edmonton. The Alfalfa Dehydrating Plant at Smoky Lake, officially opened on October 2nd last fall by our new hon. Minister of Agriculture, is a forerunner of many more to come. I am aware of six other communities that are talking, organizing, trying to establish alfalfa plants. From this type of industry other related industries may grow. There are also possibilities of several cheese factories in northern Alberta.

There are about two possibilities of a rapeseed crushing plant, and how about a potato chip or starch plant, or chipboard plant? These are also possibilities. Just a list of some concerns in my constituency: No further centralization of schools, retirement of teachers after 35 years of service, no age factor. We need grid roads and some hard top, and more highway signs; wildlife crop damage insufficiently covered; need for changes in hunting and fishing regulations. How to reduce crop risk is a problem.

A senior citizens' home is required centrally located, instead of adding ten beds each to the four surrounding and somewhat remote senior citizens' homes. We have several museums, looked after by our senior citizens, and these require financial aid. One of the museums is at Pakan, an historical site where a provincial park should be established. Very unfortunately, the Pakan bridge is not located there across the North Saskatchewan River. After the opening of the bridge, we hope to be able to run the ferry on a much reduced scale as a museum item. At this time, Mr.

Speaker, I wish to express my sincere thanks to my constituents for giving me the opportunity to serve them. Also, Mr. Speaker, I want to express my appreciation to the hon. ministers who visited my constituency in the past five or six months. Recalling problems of my home town on the occasion of installing our own natural gas system in 1967, three or four delegations visited a minister; and on another occasion, regarding the location of the Pakan Bridge in 1970, when the whole town council and plenty of other people came to the office of the hon. minister concerned to present our problem.

These travelling delegations are not very pleasant. But several ministers at different times travelled with me to my constituency last fall, in fact, one very kind and considerate minister was out there twice. And on his second visit he was welcomed by 360 of my constituents. These ministers observed, listened and discussed problems of the people on the spot, and to these ministers, I am very grateful. Mr. Speaker, rural development, which is a

section under the Department of Agriculture, has the important responsibility to promote and develop programs to assist in improving the standard of living in the less populated areas of Alberta. Thank you. MR. WYSE: Mr. Speaker, I am happy to take

part in this budget debate this afternoon. First, I want to congratulate the new Provincial Treasurer for his excellent presentation last Monday night. I think he did a fabulous job of revealing the positive points in the budget. Personally, Mr. Speaker, I welcome the budget but with some mixed emotions, mixed feelings and some enthusiasm. But even I as a new, inexperienced MLA, viewing the budget I was soon brought back to reality and back to actuality. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, the honeymoon is over. We now have a government in the province known as the Progressive Conservative party. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 942

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-33 Mr. Speaker, as someone has already mentioned, we are living in a changing world. Things are not the same today as they were 36 years ago, twenty years ago, or even seven months ago. Things are changing so fast it is hard to keep up. As I view the government from the other side of the House, it makes me wonder if we really are going ahead or going back. You know Mr. Speaker, one thing that is the same today as 36 years ago is our provincial debt. When Social Credit came into power in 1935, the provincial debt then was about $166 million.

Over 50% of our revenue went to pay the interest. Now in 1972, I think our provincial debt is about $199 million. Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member from Calgary so ably put it last week, the PC's did more in less than one year than the Social Credit did in 36 years. Now, Mr. Speaker, he never uttered a truer statement -- at least with regard to being deeper in debt. And I am wondering, Mr. Speaker, how long it will take the Social Credit party to pay off the debt of this high priced government when we do get back in office in two or three years.

There is no doubt that the amount being paid in interest would pay for a number of the new government provincial programs. But, Mr. Speaker, I am concerned, along with thousands of other Albertans, I am sure. Where is it all going to end? Concerned because it is mortgaging the future of the province. And I say, is this fair to our younger generation? Now, certainly, there are a number of programs that I agree with in the budget. I am sure they have all been mentioned a number of times from the other side of the House, such as the program for mentally and physically handicapped, and for agriculture.

But I am a bit disappointed that we only have $50 million... I might say that this is a far cry from the $50 million as was mentioned in the Throne Speech. Senior citizens to receive an exemption from 30-mill educational property tax. I am also concerned, Mr. Speaker, about some of the cutbacks in some of the departments. Grants to cities and towns for transportation facilities cut back by 31.8%, grants to improvement districts, budget cut by 4.1%, grants to towns and villages for improvements to streets and roads, cut by 100%. Parks development, budget cut by 63.5%. Grants to the colleges cut by 27%.

These are some of the things that are concerning my constituency and myself. Now, Mr. Speaker, I certainly wouldn't call it a balanced budget when in fact the estimated budget revenues fail to meet estimated government expenditures and it is necessary to borrow to make up the difference. It is deficit financing no matter what the Provincial Treasurer may say. Nov, Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed in the Lougheed government -- disappointed because we expected more, much more. Maybe not so much in the budget itself, but even more in the attitude of the government. I say this quite honestly and quite frankly.

At a time when the people of Alberta need some leadership, need some direction - they are not getting it. People want to know of the government's policies, some of the directions on some of these important issues, such as Lake Louise, foreign ownership. These are the kind of things we are not getting answers to -- no direction -- and I feel that our Premier, to some extent, is letting the people of this province down. I'm very disappointed with some of the members in the front row on the other side. This past week I asked the hon. Minister of Industry a simple question. Do you agree with the DREE program?

He refused to answer my simple little question. I am concerned with DREE because it affects southern Alberta quite drastically and I just want to read a few of his comments from The Alberta Business Journal, if I may, Mr. Speaker. "At the moment he is in the thick of a battle over federal industrial incentive programs, particularly those under the department of regional and economic expansion. Those programs are destroying the very foundation that made this country great". Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 943

17-34 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 Unlike most politicans, Mr. Peacock is not afraid to get down to specific issues in support of his argument. He points out, for example, that the recent federal grant to help establish a packing plant in Lethbridge was grossly unfair to competitors like Burns Food Ltd. of Calgary, which came through a long struggle for survival without the benefit of government aid. Then he went on to say; "we are opposed to the give away grant, we will fight for elimination of reassessment of the DREE program." Mr. Speaker, I take it from this

article that he is opposed to any development in southern Alberta under the DREE program. Now moving down to the Minister of Agriculture - I just wish he was in the House, maybe somebody would go call him. I asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture a simple little question this week, and did I get a reply Mr. Speaker?

No, instead he jumped up and he ranted and he raved and mentioned something to the effect that he couldn't remember . . . (interjections) . . . he jumped up and ranted and he raged and he didn't answer my question and said something to the effect - I can't really remember if in fact I did meet in the last few days with Canada Packers. I call it unfortunate when the hon. member sets up a Grains Commission and fills all the positions with political appointees. I call them political appointees because that's exactly what they are.

And I call it unfortunate when a minister talks about cutting the fat out of government and then increases his own department by over 230 and I suppose the political appointees weren't even included in this number. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have no quarrel whatsoever with the terms of reference for The Alberta Grains Commission, and if you will allow me, Mr. Speaker, to read into Hansard the three terms of reference on The Alberta Grains Commission; 1.

To examine all facets of the grain and oil seed industry in Alberta, including storage, transportation, marketing and price stabilization, with a view to developing positive policy recommendations to the Minister of Agriculture. 2. To maintain liaison with other governments, groups or boards, outside or within the province as may be necessary in carrying out the objectives of the commission. 3. To develop and carry out operational plans to achieve such policies, goals or objectives, as may be designed by the Minister. But I suggest, Mr. Speaker, are these political appointments qualified to do the job?

The Grains Commission could have been a real benefit to agriculture, but the political appointments made have resulted in a real blow to agriculture, I feel. And I doubt if any meaningful outcome will emerge from the Commission. But because of these things, the people of Alberta are no doubt losing faith in our Agriculture Minister. I might also mention at this time, Mr. Speaker, that it is quite hilarious from this side of the House watching the jockeying for positions that is taking place on that side.

It is really like a comedy act, and I feel somewhat sorry for the hon. members who no doubt had their hearts set on taking a position in the front row. But some of you have so ably demonstrated why in fact you are not there. I do, however, feel that the hon. Member for Calgary North Hill would do an excellent job in the front row. And I might say that I am looking forward to the time when he will take his rightful position there. I want to move over to the hon. Minister for Lands and Forests, and I am disappointed that he isn't in the House this afternoon.

Again I am very disappointed in his remarks in answer to my question regarding provincial parks, and my question went like this: Is the Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 944

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-35 Minister going to maintain provincial parks at the same level? The response by the hon. Minister was: "No, we're going to improve them." Now, Mr. Speaker, I hate to argue with the hon. Minister, but how does he propose to improve provincial parks when, in fact, according to the budget under parks development, the capital expenditures which provide for the expansion and development of provincial parks is going to be cut by 63.5%. And this reduction results from fewer new parks being created and others curtailed in the province.

We look at the income account and we find that provincial parks is cut by .5%. Now when we take into account the salary increases, which amount to $400,000, it is very difficult for me to understand how he will manage to improve provincial parks, and this is certainly the impression that was left in the House. And I hope he will be able to justify his position when, in fact, we get into the estimates. Another real area of concern for me, Mr. Speaker, is the provincial government's Priority Employment Training Program.

Now I, basically, am in favour of the principles of the crash program but I have never had so many complaints on any one program. No doubt this program was initiated by the government's Caucus Committee on Manpower. Just imagine the only criteria for employment is: lived in Alberta for one year; unemployed and seeking employment. No mention whatsoever of the applicants yearly income, his assets, and I would just like to mention here, Mr. Speaker, that I heard of a case where last fall a farmer sold his land for $75,000.

Later he enrolled in the course, the course being paid by the provincial government, and the tuition being paid by the provincial government. And I have also heard of many housewives taking a course whose husbands are earning between $10,000 and $17,000 a year. The only reason they are taking the course is for something to do. They certainly do not plan to make use of the course upon completion. And I feel this is not right when we pay people just to put in time. We should have a better screening process and also take into effect the financial status of the applicant. Now in closing, Mr.

Speaker, I might say that I am concerned with big government, now that we have one in Alberta. Just where will it all end? In fact, the growth of all government spending, particularly at the provincial and municipal levels indicates that unless the trend is arrested, there will come a day when government may totally control and manage the nation's economy. Consider the signs -- in 1971 our Canadian government took in about $32 1/2 billion in revenue, up considerably from the $11 billion they took in only a decade ago.

In 1960 the governments took about 27% of the Gross National Product, 1971 that take was about 35%. The federal government had about 150,000 employees on its payroll in 1960, by 1970 this had climbed to something like 250,000. The provincial governments have another 350,000 on staff. And one of the most disturbing questions raised by the dramatic growth of government is this, Mr. Speaker. Where will the money come for the next grand public plan? Certainly the taxable capacity of the corporations cannot provide much more. If for instance, 100% tax were imposed on all annual earnings in Canada over $25,000.

The less than 1% of taxpayers in that category would not even provide enough additional funds to cover the national interest on the national debt. It is generally conceded that more money is going to be spent on social welfare in the future. That means that the man in the middle, that the man earning between $5,000 and $25,000 is going to face serious direct or hidden tax increases. Behind it all, lies the fiscal choice for Canadians, less government or more government.

The confrontation can only be averted if government spends much more energy and ingenuity in stimulating and expanding our economy; giving individuals the prospect of accumulating private capital and increasing their income and thus expanding the national base against which future taxes may be levelled. Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 945

17-36 ALBERTA HANSARD March 24th 1972 MR. KOZIAK: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise and take

part in the budget debate. Permit me at the outset to pay tribute to a statesman who, for nearly two decades, served the people of this province and the constituents of Edmonton Strathcona, or Strathcona Centre, as it then was. For many years, my family and I were most ably represented in this House by Dr. J. Donovan Ross. Pray God that I can now represent Dr. Ross and his family equally as well. Mr. Speaker, I commend the Provincial Treasurer on the budget presented to this House, St. Patrick's Day last. He has taken some criticism from the hon. gentlemen opposite because of the deficit.

I must confess that I can't hold myself out as being a budgetary expert, but if it is any consolation to the Provincial Treasurer, deficit financing is nothing new in the Koziak household. If I were asked to describe the budget as concisely as possible, I would have to say that it's a budget for the people. The people for whom government's responsibility is the greatest -- the mentally retarded, the crippled, the handicapped, the aged and the unemployed. And these responsibilities, Mr. Speaker, have been discharged without an increase in taxes. Truly a budget for all the people.

Certain thrusts please me especially. The emphasis on agriculture, and the high priority given to it and to this industry is welcome. I am indeed pleased to see concrete steps taken in the marketing of agricultural products. After all the agricultural community is well able to take care of producing agricultural products, it is in the marketing of these products that government must show leadership. Neither federally nor provincially have we seen such leadership in this area as we are seeing now. But what's a city slicker like me from Edmonton Strathcona doing talking about agriculture?

Why, if you left the Assembly momentarily and walked out on the adjoining patio and looked to the south, you could see probably the entire constituency. Some Albertans farm larger areas than the entire area of Edmonton Strathcona. I must admit that we have a few gardens and orchards in Edmonton Strathcona, but no grain fields with wheat growing shoulder high. My concern, Mr. Speaker, is a selfish one, for I know that if the farmer prospers, so do the people in Edmonton Strathcona.

If the farmer can produce and sell his products at a fair return, that fair return will find its way into the towns and into the cities. So I say the emphasis on agriculture is a welcome one. On my door to door campaign through my constituency, I have found, and the statistics bear this out, that the heaviest concentration of population 65 years of age and over is found in the central tracts of the city, and the highest proportion is in the Edmonton Strathcona district. These are people who have lived in their homes for longer than many of us in this House have lived on the face of this earth.

These are the people who have contributed so greatly to this province. I am thrilled that to some extent, we can now repay them. When I shook hands, I told them that we would eliminate the premiums for Medicare - and we did. I told them that we would exempt those senior citizens who are homeowners from the 30 mill property tax contribution to the School Foundation Fund levy and we did. I didn't tell those senior citizens who are tenants that they would also receive relief in the form of an annual $50 grant and yet we are providing for this. Indeed, I am pleased, Mr.

Speaker, with the provisions in this budget for senior citizens. But more than being pleased, I am proud to be part of a government that not only lives up to its campaign premises but exceeds them. Mr. Speaker, I know how difficult it can be for two people to work out a household budget and determine their various priorities. This is especially so when you already have pre-committed programs of Alternate page number, consecutive for the 17th Legislature, 1st Session: page 946

March 24th 1972 ALBERTA HANSARD 17-37 longstanding duration. How much more difficult this must be, when you have a capable Executive Council composed of ministers who are concerned about the proper operation of their departments. I am sure that in the blood, sweat, and tears which went into this budget, a number of pet projects were chopped. I, too, would have liked additional emphasis in certain areas, but that would require a total budget in excess of $1,369,459,000 for I would not cut one dollar from the priorities provided for in this budget. But, Mr.

Speaker, I think I should be entitled to speak early to next year's budget, for the 1973-1974 fiscal year. For the year ended March 31, 1971, the Alberta Liquor Control Board showed a profit on its operations of $56, 208,783. Forecast profit for the year ended March 31, 1972 is $62,550,000.

Not only are the profits welcome, but concurrently a service to the people is provided, for it is said: that there's nothing like a cold beer after a hard day's work; that the vast majority of people who drink do so without resulting physical or psychological problems; that a meal without wine is like a day without sunshine; most people enjoy alcohol responsibly in a social context; all it takes is a couple of drinks to make an occasion something special. But there are also social costs, Mr. Speaker.

An estimated 50,000 people in the province of Alberta regularly drink amounts of alcohol hazardous to their health; 50% of traffic deaths among Alberta and Canadian drivers each year are alcohol-related; there are an estimated 23,000 alcoholics in Alberta; the rates of death are much higher for heavy drinkers, particularly from diseases of the heart and liver. Looking at the estimates I find that Appropriation No. 2420 provides $1,550,000 for the Alberta Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Commission, a healthy increase of 29.2% over what was provided in the previous year.

This amounts to approximately $1 for each and every man, woman and child in this province, as compared with approximately $100 that each man woman and child in this province spent on alcohol last year. Also welcome, Mr. Speaker is Bill No. 52, introduced by the hon. Member for Calgary McKnight, Mr. Cal Lee, amending The Alcohol and Drug Abuse Act, and making the office of the chairman of the commission provided for under that act much more effective. Mr. Speaker, a profit of $62 million.

But what does that profit really cost this province in terms of health dollars, in terms of insurance dollars, in terms of dollars in hours lost in work time? I suggest that during the '73-'74 fiscal year we must look at a much greater increase in the budget of this commission to ensure that we can obtain research as to what the true effects of alcoholic abuse are, what it costs this province, how it should be treated and what should be done to ensure that all the citizens of this province are appraised of the facts. Please, Mr.

Speaker, do not misinterpret my remarks to mean more restrictive laws or government control. This is not the answer. Given all the facts, people can make an intelligent decision. To a large extent, we have approached the problem of alcohol abuse with emotion. We must now approach it with facts and must make these facts known to the citizens of this province, and to the consumer. We must not forget that we occupy a dual role in the sale of alcohol, and accordingly have both responsibilities, firstly, that of a government, and secondly, that of a retailer. The caveat emptor principle has lost its following.

We now live in an era where the consumer is realizing his power. Just as governments, in response to that power, are imposing regulations about truth in advertising on the manufaturer and retailer -- so even more should a government follow the same t