Volume XL Friday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT (Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas Number 36 13 May 1988

The House met at 3:00p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, please! Statements by Ministers MR. WINDSOR : Mr. Spe:1abn· . M~. SPEAI<f::R : The hon. the Minister of Culture, Rocreal:..ion c.·1nd Youl:h. ~B-· _fLUTI: Mr. Speakc'!r, afl:. c;!r a rat:hE!r' long WintE!r it 'is tirne to dig out thE! c r:Hn ping e1 n d hi I< t n g g eat' to c,111 j o y the Surnrne r and take ad vantage of our very impressive provincial park system in Newfoundland and Labrador. I am happy to inform this hon. House that a l:o ta 1 of sevent.~:!en parks will be open for the Victoria Day tAJeekend.

On L·~e:~dnesday, nine parks wi.ll open: Backside Pond; Butterpot Park; La Mane he; Catamar·an; SquarE! Pond; Bellevue Beach; Gushue's Pond; Beothuck Par·k; and Notr(~ Oamc,1 depending on snow cond:itions in that park . A further annotH1ce:1ment w:i.ll be madE! on Notre Dame~ Park n~:!xt IAJE!t':~k. The r·eason for opening nine parks on W e:1 d n C'! s d a y i. s -1.: o h Ed p rod u c 8 Uw expectc->.d lineups and congE:1stion at pdrk c;!ntranCE!S.

I·IOIAJ~~ve;n, l IAJOI.Ild l.ike to rE!rnind campers that they must have l:hc,dr· camping un .it·s t•.ri.th them in order to register and must leave them on site at that time. An o 1'.: hE! r e ·i. g h t par' k s tAri 11 open their gates on Friday, May 20th: Fitzgerald's Pond; Jack's Pond; Barachois Pond; Grand Codroy; Frenchman's Cove; Northern Bay L1886 May 13, 1988 Vol XL Sands; J.T. CheeSE!rnah; and Cochrane Pond, whJch is a day 11se park only. The total number of camp si.tE!S available, Mr.

Speai<E!r, for the May 24th weekend is 1,311, IAJ~dch is 56 per cenl: of the total nurnbE!r of carnpsii:E!S w'J.t.:htn thE! provincia} pa1nk syst.r:!tn. The parks opE!rling for Victoria Day wcc!<E!nd have~ bHC:!I'l SE!l.f:1CI'.~~d l:.o provide a par·k within rE!asonab1e dr· i.v:i.ng rl i.stance t.o most. pc,1opJ.e :in the Province fo1n _thj s initial paint of thE! cnmp t ng SC)d!>(Hl. On June 3, six parks which are located near licenced salmon riVE!rS JipujijkUE!i KUE! SpE!II'I, Squ .ir·c,1s ME!ITior·"i.al Park, PintAJarl;! River, Duley Lake, Sandbanks and C r abbe s R i. v E! r !AI"'i. 11 o p ~:! n .

T h r,, remaining parks will open on JunE• 2l~. While basic camping rE!gu1ations have not changE!d, par·ks staff u..d.1l be co-.. operating with thE! RCMP to ensure noise is controlled and alcohol is restricted to :indi.vidual carnpsi.tc;!s and p :icrdc arE!aS. The seasonal campsitE! Nnd camper storage programme introduce!d two years ago IAJiJ.J. cont.:intle t:h:is y~~ar·. S('!asonal camping is avail.able in all forty.- .. t: t~Jo camp'i.ng piH'ks a nd Ccl111pr:1r storage is available in thirty-two p(:-1r!<s J.ocai':~~d l:hrougho11l: t:he P r' o v i n c e .

D u e t o t h c,1 s E! a n d o ti'H~ r' :i. nlt:i.cti :·i. t;es oF my df:1parl:.lfi(:Hlt., I u..Jish to infor·m han. HIE!rnbE!rS thai: p r:1 r k tJ "i. s i. i.: a t "i. o n !; h c.~ s i. n c r' c;! cl s C"! cl b y approximately 30 per cent over l.ast yc,1cH' .... a tJC'!Y'Y :impr c;!ss :ive 30 per cent incrE!aSe ove1n last YE!ctr'. Our parks private sector initiative has a similar potential. If we have the private sector involVE!d in our provincial pc:irks .. IAJC:1 exp~~ct an addi.t .ional 30 per cent increase this year. No . 3 6 R1886

Mr. Speaker, I am i.'ll.so pleased to announce that. there will be no increasE:~ in stl"ucture for 1988. our b;:~.sic ft;:'E' provincia] parks in SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, h~~ar! MR. BUT'T: Park feE!S w:Lll remain the same as 1988 and they art':~ as folloiAis: Daily camping fE!eS - $6; WeE!kly fee of $35. So if you do it on a weekly basis, you will save $7. Seasonal camping fees $250; camper storage fees $1 per day; daily vehicle entry fees $2; seasonal vehicle entry fees $10. For senior cit-i .ZE!ns age sixty-five or over and residents of our Pr·ovincel of course, il': is free.

I see several hon. members on thE! opposi.l::e sido IAiho IAii.ll. bE! abl.e to takr::1 advant:agE:' of free acCE!SS ·to the provinci.al pc\l''ks Lhl.s year because of their advanced age. I IAIOlil.d li.!<e, cd.: l.:hi.s l.::i.me, Mr. Speaker, to wish all campers a safe and enjoyable Vi.ctorl.a Day weekend and another year of outdoor fun and recr(~clt:. ion in Newfoundland and Labrador 1 s provincial. parks system. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear I hear! MR . TULK: Mr. Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The han. the member for Fogo , MR. fULK: Mr.

Speaker, take much of in replying s E!E:Hns La rne I IAIOr'·th br::dng S l:. a t:c,1 rn~Hl t . I arn not going to the timE! of t.he House,, to this because, it 1: his t. h -L n g is h r.1 r·d J. y called a Ministerial L..l81l7 May 13, l9B8 lJol. XI .. Ml1. EFFORD: Exactly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. TULK: We all agrE!E! that New·foundl.and has very beautiful parks and that people !Ali l.l. I'::Hlj oy 1:-.I·H~rn ag<':l.in this . Summer.

That is great, that is wonderful, . but it is a IAJas l:.e of seve.n or E!ight rrdnut:E!S of l:he precious time of this House to have the ~inister stand up and announce what !Ale all knoiAI is going to happen, and we all know when it is go ·i.ng t:o happen. The onl.y thing that 1.uas worth SE!Edng done i. n t hi. s HousE! t hoi s morning IAii.'l s t h r:1 attE!Tnpt at humour by thE! Mi.nistE!r oF Cultur·c,1 1 Rc,1creat·ion and Youth (Mr. Butt). SOME HON. MEMBERS : llecti", hoar! AN HON. MEMBER: TI·H~rC:l Ls ~;oHJebody i.n l':h~:! gallE!r'y and you are showing off. SOME HON. MEMBERS: 011, oh! MR.

SPEAKER : Order, please! Order, please! MR. LONG: Mr . Speal<er. MR . SPEAKER: ThE! han. the member for St. John 1 s East. MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Speal<er. W(:1 IA1elcome m:inister. l.: h (,1 I arn st.at.em(:!nt not sure by thE! whclt is l·.:h~~ l'rli:lt·.l:.E!r IAI-:i.i'.h t:h~~ ITif:1l'rlb~:!r'~> of t.hr:1 Liberal Opposition. Mclybe Hwy had r:1 bad ni.ghL l.Clst ni.ght or something. 1\Jo. 36 lnHB7

'soME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. LONG: I think the fE!e for the dinne!r at the hotel was perhaps a little bit too much for some members. In e1ny case, Mr. Speakc,1r, wc,1 say the Minister of Culture, R~:!Cr(-:1a"tton and Yout11 ts obutousJ.y a minister committed to having fun i.n ·Uw SuiTIHI<'!r, t.·lnd Lht1 sptri.t: of his statement today in talking about the good works that hls department is doing in keeping the f c;! e s L h e s <:l 111 e :·i s d p o s :i. 1· i. v o announCE!rnent. That is s:ignificdnt. SOMF ~ION. MFMB FRS: . . - MR. LONG: We would say, Mr.

Minister, that the fees are too high dnd they s ~10uld bE! brought doLAm. There ar'E! some things missing from the minister's statement. We wiJ.l say again it is unfortunate that there is not a government employment programme for young people ·t.o I<E!Bp the parks clean during the summer. We LAJould Like sornt:1 more information about how the private! sector enterprise project is going, and perhaps an update, in t.he next couplt1 of days, about . the number of places thc-:tt IA.Iill bE! opcHli. ng?

Ot:hc;!riAd s E!, IAIB jot n lAd l:h th€:) rn.irds ter in encouraging peopJ.e to mHke th<·d.r plc\ns c,)clrl.y dnd to take full advantage of the J.ong IAIE!~~k~~nd l'l(o!Xt IAI(,1~'!kC!I'ld dncl go to i':hH parks . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. WINDSOR: Mr. SpeakE!r . MR . SPEAKER: ThE:) han. the Minister of Fin<HICE!. L1888 May 13, 1988 Vol XL MR. WINDSOR: Mr. Speaker, Net~Jfoundland and Labrador Hydro is currently build-lng i.ts first IAIOod dlip fired genel~ating station at RoddJ.cl<ton on tl1c,1 Nort.hc,1ast. Coast of l:hc;! GrE!at Nor·thE!rn P~Hlinsula. Rocldickton, where is that? SOME HON.

MEMBERS: H~H·lr, l'lC'!ar! MR. WINDSOR: The 5 megawatt station when r:ornplc,!l·:r:!d IAI·i.J.J. b~~ connect.ed t:.o t:he St. Anthony and Ma:l.n Br·ook diE·sE<L ~• y stem ~ ; by r.:t 6 9 k i .l. o u o 1 t. transm:ission lin<~!. When thE! p1ant b~1gtns op(:1rat""i.on in 1989, l:he Main Brook d:l.eSE!l gE!nE!r'ating station lAd l.l. b ~~ c l. o s c;! d f.l n d t h c;! 1~ e '-'.d. 1.1 b ~:! a significant reduction in pr·oduc U.on at ~H. . Anthony and Roddi.ckton as output from these diesel. stations is displaced by wood ch:Lp gE!I'lE!ratE!d r:dE!C td.c:i.ty.

I am pleased today to announce the awarding of a major contract on the Roddickton project valued at $1.1 mil1ion to Conwell Construction of Corner Brook. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WINDSOR : The ~ontrctct is for the suppl.y and erecting of building steel, including cladding. Conwel1 C 0 n S '1: r U C t i 0 n S U b ITI i t [·: E! d t h E! 1 0 lA IE! S t t.: f:! n d I'! r of n J. n 0 b .i. d s 'i. n a r' e c E! n t tender caJ.l.

The work on this c o n t r·"' c 1:. .i. ~; ~; c h (~ d 11 J. u d to b (;! g .. i. n i n late August of l:h:is yeflr and should bc.~ cornpletc:!d by thE! middlE! of January, 1.989, and will pr·ov:i.dE! approximately 16 jobs. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HtH:J.r, h~~ar! MR. WINDSOR: The Roddickton wood chip firf~d No. 36 Rl888

g e n e rat i. n 9 s t a t i. on i :; b t~ ·i. n 9 b u U. L at a cost of approximately $25 lll 'i. l.J. i. 0 n IAJi. t. h Cl C 0 1'1 l r J b II l i. 0 l'l 0 f $SOO,OOO from the Federal 0 (:1 partmonl : of EncH'9Y. Mi. n o~; r:1nd Resources towards engineering costs i:·\nd project rE!por ·h ; . Contracts were awarded earlier for l::hc,1 suppJ.y and ins L:al.lat:i.on oF LhE! boiler, steam turbine and generator and for cl e aring the transmission line right-of-way . MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Gander . MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is good news, obviously. It is a step in the right direction.

SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear·! MR. BAKEr~: It is good to s ee that we are u s ing sotn o of our· n;'lttiY'i'll tnesources, that in the past have be t::! n lA) f.\ s L E! d • 1'.: 0 c r (:1 '" L E! 8 1. (~ c tIn -i, C"i. t:. y in the Pr·ovince and to gt:~t a1.11ay fr·om, in lhi.s case~. d :i.e:;el generation. The production of the fi.ve megaiAJat t s, [ undl':1rs l:and, is needed that immediate area. I 1.uould like to poJ.nt out to the minister that there is a whole Province out therE! 1.uhich has the capabiLity of providing IAJOod chips for wood chip generation of electrJcity.

It :i.s a source t:hat I know the De partment of Energy and Hydro a r· e now 1 o o k :in g a t • and we· hope to see further announcements Jn the Future concerning this use of our natural rE!SOurce, becc::luse it ties "i.n, Mr. Speaker, so beautifully with our logging .indus tr·y and lAd. th our forestry industry, especially the forestry industry Lhat has been neglected in many ways over the U889 MRy 13, l9BH Vol XI.. last number of y ea rs . l he rrri n i s t (,! r· , p t:! r h r:t p s , s h o u 1 d h a v E! elaborated a little further Jn tr,n·rw; of jobs .

II e contract will produce j o b s . r h (! s :i g n "i. f ·i. c H n t that plant, when it Sc:l:i.d thr:! sixt E!E! I1 t:h.ing ·i s is :L n opt:1rrll : 'i.on, t.ui.ll providE:! far rnor"E! than thE! sixteen jobs in thE! . Roddic!<ton ar e.:·l, and t h t.~ t i s t he kind of thing that we like to see . In clos"i.ng, Mr . Spt~ak(~!r', I I~Jould like to point out., to · put thi s j.n perspective a little bit, that the five megawatts produced by thjs plant :. is not quitE! enough to supply the Sprung greenhouse. MR. FENWICK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member For Menehik . MR. FENWICK: T h i.

S ·j ~ ) p In() b r.\ b 1. Y 9 () i. 11 9 l.: 0 b (;! t". h (~ ! shortest lived hon~::1ymoon 1.11e hatH:1 <:1 u f;! r h ;:., d , M r . S p E! <:·1 I< f:! r· . I h ''' tJ ('! c\ lot of problems 1.ui.th thE! project up t:hfH' e. 1\Jot: tAJ .i l:h Lhe fact t.hat we are burning wood to produce electric ·Lty, T t ht nk that is a long overdue initiative by the goVE:1rnmE:Hlt, but. , o·f coursE!, a tenet to this particular ·iniLiative i s the failure, I think, on the part of NE!Wfoundland and Labr<:H~or Hydr ·o to r(;!ciUCE! r·a t·.e s once this power plant is in place.

This has bt::H?.rl a conscious d E!d s ion by the governiTIE!nt l:o pul: a wood - fired operation in th e re and, in a SE!nSE!, to take it off die:1sel pOIAJBI". At the s arnt:1 l7.irn<::~. the redu cU. on that. wi J.J. occur to Fogo and ChangE! Island s IAihE!l"l t:he interconnE!Ct gOE!5 in thE!rE ! i s no t qoing t:o occur· :in thE:! Roddickt o n arE!a. It seems to this 1.ua s a 1\Jo. :!6 RUl89

conscious decision that mearis that any inter· c onnE! c 1:: up the:H' c->.. is likely to take many more years before it occurs, and I do not understand why ~he people of Roddickton have to pay the excessively hig~ rates for electr·ic:lty aboVE! 600 k:ilo11Jatts per month.

So, on that basis, although I applaud the initicttive, I think thc,1 lack of a coherent policy of t r €~ at. ·i. ng l·. he IAJood-f·i. r· c,H:I g c~ n ~=! rc::~ l ~~ d operations, and I hope this is only the fir s t of many a s an int10:1rconnected operation on an t~nti.r·o gr.i .cl syslnm, :i.~; nxiTornc~l.y dc->.tl"irnental to the people of th(:1 North e rn Peninsulct ctnd wi ll lock t h (:Hn i n to thE! hi g he r e 1 e c t r i c i t y r· at: e s [-\ 1. mo s 1:. forE! v (:1 r a~' long i.-\ s the particular wood plant is gotng, or· un Lil l.•.Je, pedJdps. change this governrnE:1nt IAJith a mor·e responsive one to the needs of people like that.

Mr. Speaker, I approve of the initiative, but I th:lnk thE:1rH has been a major failure to reduce rates in that area once this plant goes on stream. MR. LONG : Hear. hear! Well said! MR. DINN: Mr. Sp1'::1akor. MR. SPUlKER : The hon. the Minister· of Min10:1s. MR. DINN : M1" . !3p €~ ct !< C'! J". n 01~1 1: hal : my colJ eagucO!s havl'::1 i:he Opposition :in better form, T havo another announcement to make : I .".''rn pl(~dsod that 1/Jt' hav<~! Cor·por•a t.i.on encouragtng l'. o t n F o r· m 1': h <'! bE!E!n adviSE!d by of SOITI(:1 rE!

SUll:s from Hous1~ Teck v f:1 r·y the Ll890 May 13, 1988 Vol XL exploration programme at Newfoundland Zinc Mines at Daniel's Harbour. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. DINN: As provided for in thE! clgr·eernNl'l:s made w'i l::h NeiAJfoundland ZJ.nc las 1: . year, thE! company has beE!n conducti.ng an exploration prog.ramrnE! focusing on a pr·evious:J y unexplored area Northwest of the main ore bodies knOIAJn as thE! 'L z o n c~ ' i:li'H~ 1:: 1·1 f:! ' No r· +.: h I. - · z o n C'! ' . D I" :i. J.l. :i. n g oi. 1'1 'I'. h ·j_ S i:~ I" 0 Cl h i:·\ S encountl'::1red zinc rnineral'.ization in 5 J.

X h 0 1. (;! ~) 0 1.1 t J. J. n -j_ 1'1 g i:\ Z 0 n ~:! IAI h :i C h appears to be several hundred feet. long. Thr~ gi~Ade~> t~ncount(;!r'E:!d r·un from over 10 per CE!rlt to OVE!r 21. p(;!r c1~nt z ·i.nc and occur ov"!r' thicknesses of up to 44 feet. The company has startE!d di~ifting und€~rgr ' ound t.OIAJiH'd thJs nf:!IAJ zon<~!. This drift was established after previous underground drilling located a mineralized zone close to t:hc,1 CO! Xis ti ng lAlOr kings. The exploration drift is now ad van c:i ng in ore.

Thts is extremely E!ncouraging nE!IAJS which holds out the promise 6F extended lifE! for thE! oper·at::Lon. Wh~1n l·:ht:! 90V(:!nllf1(,1nt r:·\gr€:!E~d :in 198'7 to provide financial suppor t of $?.. 1~?.0. 000 l:o <Hlabl.e opi!:H'at i.ons to be reactivated at Newfoundland z .i. n c , IAJC! r· ~~cog n ·i. z ~:! d 1: h a L: L h C'! pob:HJU.al for thE! discoVE!r'y of fIll " t hor· rrd n Cc1l" n l 'i. z a 1.: "i. on IMC\ s acknoiA.JlE!dged to I:H1 good. OUI" ;:~ g J"l'! nrnH n 1·. !; p r·o l) .Lei r:!d 1:: hi'\ 1.: . $ SOO, 000 uJouJ.d be spent on E!Xplor·~:•tj. on .

That oxpl.orctl'.ion i s now bearing Fr·u:i.t J n i:-l s ·i.gnj .f-i.cdnt tAJay. Wi th presenl::l.y defined ore reserves we are reasonabJ.y assured No . 3 6 R1890 ~:: --

that operations at Newfoundland Zt nc tAli ll con l:·."i. nue u n l.i 1 Lho ond of 1989. These most rec~nt r c~ s 1.1 l. 1:". s g 'i. v e u s s o m ~~ .i. n d :i. c i'\ t·. J o n that operations can probably be E:'Xt.E:~nded WH11 beyond th.:·\1: dRi :e. Added Lo the potonl'i.aJ. in tho :irm11ediatE:~ minE:1 iH'E:1a, there :is sign1f"i.cant potential for Lhe cHcovE:~ry of netAJ ore bodiE!S J.n the g ~HlE! r(:\1 a rr:1a · fur· HH~r We~ s t of thE! existing mining operations.

Newfoi.E:1l.d s Mi ner·a 1 s hi:\s rc,~ c ~:! n ·t:l. y announced an agreement with Tech Corporation to conduct 100,000 feet of drilling in this are!a at an estimated cost of $3. 5 million. This drilling programme is also currently ongoing. Now, Mr. Speake!r, we harkE!n back to the time when the mine was closing. The hon. mE!InbE!r for St:. Barb<:1 (Mr·. Furey) sa.i.d the r~H~son for· its closurE! tJJa s thE! fact that the federal government was supporting a mine in the Northwest T e r· r· i t o r i e s , C y p r· u s A n v i. l. .

I s a 1 d at that time that the reason it IAJa s c los i. ng L~Jc:ls be CdU so of g.r-ddC:!S, tonnage and pr·ice at the:1 timE:1 the prJce had droppr~d fr·orn abou L: forty - five cents down to th1rty -one cents. T ~m also p1.co1rlSE~d to say that the pd.ce for z i.nc t:ode:\y, on 'Lhco1 London fn(d:.dl. exchange, is something close to f:lfty·····orw cents. ~,Jo hope Ji:: si::i:lys up thc,~r~~ so that we tAd.J.l have a successful operation in Oclniel's Harbour. Thank you, very much, Mr·. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear! MR. SPEAKER : The hon. t.he rnembc-:1r for St. Bar· be. MR. FUREY: Mr·.

Speaker·, IAJE!lcome th .is we, on thjs side, statement today and L1891 May 13, 1988 Vol XL we also ask the minister to harken l:h'IC k, noiAJ 1: ha 1: he ~li:l s ask c;!d us t:o har·kE!n back, to that: YE!ar and a h E1 J. f i'l 9 0 Ilk\ y ~)('! l·w IAri.J. J. h i:H' k (;! n back himself·- and recall thc.~t :.i.t t.•.Jr'l~> i:hr=! off:i.c"i.Rl OpposJt: -i.on l.!lho asked the government to come up IAd.i:h p1Jbl.Jc; monoy to gudY'dni·.e~:! the:! jobs for the 165 rn:i.ners. And if h C:! h a t' I< (;! n ~' b ·~~ c k a 1 :i. 1:. t. 1. n 1. o n g t'! r , . Mr.

SpeakE!r, this rnintstE!r' IAJ:ill r·~~membeJn, and this gov~~r·nrnc-:1nt. IAJ:.lll r· E:Hn c-:'!.rn be r· , t hat: i t tAJ a s t h E!'.i r Cr.:tb:inei:. d~~cts-i.on I.•.Jh.ich kl,!pl".·. t.h~=!SE! 165 miners out: of work and reduced t h c;!ln l: o tAJ(,~ l. far· E! for tt~JE:! l v E! rna n i: h s of the YE!ar. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hE:1ar! MR. FUREY: M t' . S p c,1 a I< ('! r , 1 Ed:: rn e s a y U1 a t. I a rn very, very pJ.E!aSE!d - MR. HODDER: Sl:.ick l:.o the:' tr·uth now, Chuck. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. FUREY: HE:1 F.~sk!; rne l:o si:.:i. ck to the:1 U·uth. The truth is, Mr·.

Speai<E!r', that l::hOS!':! rnJ.nOl"S IAH'!I"E! 01.1 1".: oF IAJOr'i< for t1.11elve months. MR. SPEAKER: Or·dc:!r', pJ.easc,1! Ot"der, pl~~asc~! I am hdv:ing great difficulty hearing what the hon. member is sc.~y:ing, <:ts thE!re ar'E:! a nurnbc:!r' of hon. memhers who repeatedly interrupt t:he proceedings, practically on a daLI.y basis.

I cc-:1rta:i.nly do not IAJant. to pinpoint any particular member, but if I coni:::inua1ly ca11 ·for ordE!r and ·:i. t is not given, and there is cont.tnual har·r·assm(;!nl:., and t.:hat :l.s all I can cal1 it, harr·assrnE!nt:, I IAI i. 11. h d V ~~ t 0 i. cl 8 1'1 t. i f y 1:: h E! No. 36 R1891

partlcuh:tr hon. member L•Jho ts doing that. I do not want to do t h a l:: , b u l: 1 n t: h c,1 f :i n a 1 a rli9. 1 y s i. s , I intend to name a member if he continues to do that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : The han. the member for St. Barbe . MR. FUREY: Speaking of harrassment, Mr.

Speaker, :it IAJi:lS thi.s s i dE! wh-Lch had to har·rass the goVE!rnmE~nt i'Hld wake them up to see thctt 16S miners in the community of D cll'l.i e J. 1 s 1·1 a dw u I" , wh .i. c h J. s i:l orw-indust.ry tOIAJI'l, had to harrass t.:hi.s gOIH:'I"nmc,1nt :i.nl.:o pro\J.i.d :i.nq 1-.ht-:! $2 million loan guarantee n(!Ce s sar·y L:o put l·:hem back l".o IAIOI"k. The hon. the mernbr:H' for· P 0 I" 1:. c.q l.l P 0 I" L·. c:l s k 0 d rrJ(~ 1.:0 s p ('!a k tl"uthfuJ.ly . Well, hl'::'r'e is thE! tr·ut:h: Thc,1 tr·ut.h "i. s thi'll:". l··.hr:! government ignored them for twelve rnon l::hs. Th~1 truth i. s, Mr.

Spc-:!aker, that this mE:'mber carne in daily for twelve months aski.ng for that government guaranteed loan. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR . SPEAKER: Ordr:H', plE!i'.:tse! MR. FURg_y: Th1'::1 truth is, Mr. Speaker, that we a r r,~ e n c o u r· cl g e d a n d v :t n d i. c r.1 t (;! d . W r;! Fell vindicated in our position for· asking for· publ.:ic rnon(:1Y l:o bE! spent up ther·e and it shOIAJS, Mr· . S p (~a k r-:! r , l·: h r:'l t o 11 r p o ~d 1.: "i. on !Akl s r·ight prJor to th~1 lc1.yoff, during t.h(~ layoFf, iHld i'lfi:t-:!1" UH:' l.i:~yoff . If you want to see $2 million well s FHHI L, Mr· .

Sp o r..1 !<rn" , "i. t IAkl ~; IAJE:~ 11 ~;p~~nt in Dr.:tnic,~1 1 s Har't>oul~. MR . SPEAI<FR : L1892 May 13, 191lll UoJ. XL MR. FUREY: If you want to see $22 rnisspc;!n-1::, i'k\VC:1 a look Sprung greenhouse . SOME HON . MEMRERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER: m:U.J.ion at the ThE! hon. thE! ITIE!IllbE!r for Mon:Uwk . MR. FENWICK : Mr . Speaker, I th i ~k th e activities at Daniel 1 s Harbour ar e p r· o b ;:~ b J. y L h <"! b <~ !; 1:. C'! x i:l rn p l c;! IAJ E! h a v c;! of what is a very poor mining policy on Lhe p~rl:". of thi s gov6rnrnent over here.

Why, for r:1Xdrnpl.e, in i : hr-~ 1-.: c! n o r· t: l.o~Je l v e years that the DanJel 1 s Harbour opordt l on operat e d was ther e noL ~; orne IAJ a y , s o rn !'::1 rn E! cHI s , of rn d ld. n g s u r· < ~ l: h i:t l~ t h n y d j d 1.: h E'! E! x p l o r· m t ·.i o n that currently has found an or e body r:ight ~djacent Lo the one that they were exploiting? Is l::hN·e sorneUdng IAJr·ong iAd.th th~~ IAJay we force our companies to pay r· o y all: i e s on Uw rni n E! r• ;;t 1 s thE! y have there and force them to do additional exploration?

To give you an E!Xarnple, thE! amount of money, accord i ng to the Minister of Mines, that W€:1 gE!t in di.r·c,1ct r·oyaltie s fr•oJTI t.:hE! b:i.ll:i.on dollars plus i.n minerals that l'H'E! extr·ac tc-'!d out: of OlH' Pr·ovtncc-'! ea c h year is actually less than $20 JTril J. ).on . I'JOIAJ, l.: ha t. t!Jor· k s out. t.o about 2 pE!r CE:Hlt a YE!ar in d :ir'E• c t I" 0 y (.~ 1. t i. 0 s . A 1". t: h ell".: l ('! v Ed. I M r . Speaker, I do nol: think LAI~~ i.'l.I''E! doing r:·lnyth :i. ng t:o gel:: t:h o k"i. nd of c.;!conorn:i.c return from the;! resourCE ! t h n t I.~J e s h o 1 1l. d , nor· <:'1 r E!

Lt.l o bu:ildJ.ng up funds so thcd: places 1. :i. k t'!

f) r:~ n J e ·1 1 :; H a J" 1:> o 1 II" 1:~ n d J.-J k r,~ Labrador WE~st, when t ho orE:~ body r'11ns oui:., Rr' c,1 cr:·lp;'lbl e of rnak:ing c.·' saf e transition to a diff e rent No . 3 6 R1892

economy. Thr:~ fact of i:.he lnf.·ll~ter i.s, no matter how much ore we find, it is ct flnlte quality . Daniel's Harbour will eventually have to fclce the problem of the closure of tiH.d~ min~~. The1~e should bro~ funds Hnd pol.J.c··i .ns :in pldcn so l:ht:-1-l: these rn:i.nc;!I"S and that community dl"(~ lookE!d after· ·i. n a l'lllmnnP. 1.11ay, unJ : ik~~ the callous trE!al·ment that t•.Jas t"Hcwi .vocl by the pr.wpl(~ oF Labradol" City and Wabush when they t•J<;!nt t:hr·ough i:l mr.lj or dotAJri s-.i.z-.i.ng i.n the 1982 1983 period.

So what t~Jt:~ ar~~ asking for is good taxat :. i.on and good policies to address places l.i.ke OHniel.'s Harbour and other mining communities in the Pr·ovince. MR. LONG : Hear, hear! WeJ.l said! MR. SPEAI<ER : Or·der, please! MR. SPEAKER: At this stage I would like to tAle 1 c om c,1 t. o t: h ~1 g a 11. CcH' y M r· . B r· -i. an Tobin, Lhe::1 Member of ParliamE!nt for· Humb(~r - Por·t: au Port ··· !')i: . llarbe. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H ear· , h c,1 iH' ! MR. SPFAJ<FR: I wouJ.d like to welcome Grade V s htdents IAJ.i.th ter.\chccH'S, Ml". and Mrs.

Cr·i.t .ch and Mr. and Mrs. from Purchase Pentecostal in Bot.woocl. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hr:1ar, hE!i!lr! rllR. SPEAKER : l. IAIOt.tJ.d l ".i.b:! tO IAJBl.COITIB Grade Xl students IAiith teachers, Ed Neil and L1893 May 13, 1988 thirty l: h (;! j, I" Bruce PE!ddl.c~, School s ·i.xty thEd.r C l cll.l d c-?. Vol XL Taylor, from Ascension CoJ.legiate i.n Br.ty Rober·ts. SOME HON. MEMBERS : li ' (,~Hr, hear! Oral Questions MR. WELLS: Mr· . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Th(~ hon. t·. hc,~ Opposition . MR. WELLS : of M r . S j;H~ a k or , m o s t rn (:HrJ I:H:!

I" s 1Ar:i.l1 r·ernf:Hnber in the last couplE! of days thE!r(~ has . bec;!n a gr·eat d(:!al of discussion, publicly and p r· i v d t: ('! 1 y <.HId i n Uli s H o u s E! , a b o u L the provision of health care services in the Province. A groat deaJ. of attention was r·a :LsE•d as ct result of a letter written by Mrs .

RowSE!ll about her mothE!r and thE! f<:d.l.tii"C'! t.o ;:1dm-Lt h~H' to the hospital u..Jhen she ought rc-:1ally to h,-:~ v f:! b C'! c;! n i.'\drn:i. t t c;!d, tAJh ('! n ~~- n ·r· a c {~. there was an admission slip .i. s ~> u e d , n o 1: o n r.u1 (~ rn E! r· g n n c y b a s i s , but there was an admission slip F .i l n d i: o h <'llJ c,1 h (~ r• d d rn-L 1:: t.·. c;! cl t. o hosp·Lta 1 , ~s the facts turn out.

The minister ha s made cE·r·tain stcttements, Follow-.i.ng on all of this, u..Jhich, if you juclg<'! by sl:dt.c~Jnents thRt h<.-1l.l('! bC:!('!n mi:•tdE! privately and in the public media, h <'I lJ o t 1.1 r· n C:! d o 1.1 t n o t. 1:: o b e correct. Statements have be e n rn<'tde to t.he effect that only - MR. SPEAKER: ------Order, pl~~ase! The han. the Leader of the Oppos:iU.on is making a statemE:~nt. I would ask him to ask a question. No. 36 R1893

MR. Wf.LLS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. T am 9 o ..-i. n g to a s k +:. he m :i. n ""i. s to r· +.: o address these particular statements in terms of h""i.s statements in the House because the t.LIJO cannot stand to9et.hE!r. StatemE:1nts haVE:1 beE!n made by people involved in health care services - PREMIER PECKFORD: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! A po"i.nl: of ordt::1r, the hon. t.i'w P r· ernie r. PREMTER PECKFORD: Min.

Spc,1al<er, you have alrc,1ady, a f<:!IAJ rn-i rwt.os <.·H..:JO, brotlght t.hr;! hon. thc,1 Leade1" of t-.he Opposition l:o i·H;!C:! 1. bo Ci'l.ll s e i·w I.•Jc~ s not '" s k ·:Lng a que s t ion . Now he say s ' I am go :in 9 to ask' the question. This is Question Period and there are a lot of rnombers h<"H'e ~~Jho hc:·\IH1 questions to ask. We are only too happy to answer questions if we get them, but at the present momE:1nt IJJe haVE! not gotten one and I think the hon. the Leader of the Opposition :i.s abusing the r·ulc-?.s of this House. MR. WELLS: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to be heard on the pcdnt of order, if I may? .~PEAK_ER: To the point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. WF.I .. I .. S: Ml". Speakc,1r, I IAJOU] d say I am the l. a s t: p c,1 r· s on "i. n I: h i s II o 11 s e IM h o rlbus~~s l:hat: pl":i v:ilE!ge -· SOMF HON. MFMAERS: Ll894- May 13, 1988 Vol XL Oh, oh! MR. WELLS: of laylng a reasonable foundatton for as king a ques t:i.on. And I l:hink Your Honour IAri.ll agrE!e with that. Now tn thJ.s par·ticu]ar· cas~~ it. :.ls necessary to present to the . rniniste!r thE! staternE!nt that I arn going to ask h:i.rn to addr'E!S s.

It will only take about thirty seconds, :i.f I havc-:1 a rnodicurn of silence, and tt can "bE! donE!. MR. SPEAKER: To that point of ordE!Y'. I think t:h8 pr·,,~arnbl.~:! of l:.h(! hon. 1Tl0.!1Tib<'!ln has be! en too long. So I would ·ask h :i. m L o g f:! ·t. t o h :l. s q u e s t "i. o n . T h i s is Question ·rime. The hon. UH:! L. o <:·l d e I" of Opposit:i.on . MR. WELLS : Thank yoll, Mr . Spc,1c:lk<-?.r. Mr. Sp(o1akr:!r, my qLI(H;tJon t.:o l.:hE! minister is: Wi11 hE!

E!Xplain to the Ho1.1s~:! hoiAJ he could rnake the statements that he made to this HousE:1 in the J.ast couple"! of days, that everyth:ing is normal in hE:1al.th care ser·vi.cE:1S, and "is bc,1.i.ng done as it was in pr·evtous YE!f.H's , when people directly involved in health care! ser·vtCE!S have said in the lctst tiAJenty-four hours that the HeaJ.th SciencE!S Cornp1ex Js operatLng almost entJ.rely on an emergency and urgent admission basis? It is t:i.me for the gove:1rnrne!nt to admit t:hat thE!r'E:1 ts i:l pr·obJ.orn.

It has not. be~:!n qo".ing on all the time, tt ts getting t.1JO r· ~; P. . :30M F. _t!.2N..:...._f'l [ ~!lLB.§ : Hr:1ar, hNH'! Mf~. SPFAKI::R: No. 3 6 R1894 ...~' -·~----

The han. the Minister of Health. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I think the:~ han. the Leader of the Opposition Ls quoting a physician, I think he may hav~~ bc,H;!n d spokesm1:t11 for l:'.he Newfoundland Medical Association, on te1euision last night. This was part of an interview. I heard I~J h r:-l +.: h ~;! s a "i. d b 1.1 1:. 1: h ;:~ v (! n o t: ~; (:! c;! n ,:t statement of what he said . I +:h·ink i. l.: t~Jas not Rn off.i . c ·LaJ. sti:th~ment by the~ NMA, he:~ IJJas c:·li1SWE:H'··i ng a quos l:.:i.on. ~)o t i:trn not certain that his remarks reflect I~.Jhat. U1e:~ NMA r•ec:o~J.J.y fcH!l.S.

And, of course, he was not in that c a p a c i t y s p E:~ i'l k i. n g o n b c-:~ h a l f o f t h e hospital. I had a letter from the E x e c u t. i. v ~~ D i r E~ c 1: o r o f t: h e:~ H o s p t t a J. which laid out certain informatjon to me and I would take that. as the official position of the hospt ·tal concer·nE:~d. The;! :i.ndiv:l.dual L1.Jas on television as part of an interview, and i.f he I~Jas any l:h ·"i.ng he was a spokesman for thE! NMA, but I do not think he was ~w•o 1~.:i ng an official policy or statement from the NMA but. a personal statement:.

I am glad the:~ hon. u,1ad<H' of' l:. he Opposition asked me about acl1n:i.ssJons to hosp·il:i:~l . s, bc,~cdtJSE! I just happen to have JJJith mE~ thE! <.·H:Irni. s s ·i. on s o t)(H' a l'ltlrnb~H' of y (,~a r s to the Health Sciences Complex and LhP. hon. l:·.ho I ~~ador of the Opposi !:ion might bE:~ interested in he<:H'ing tl·lf~SP.. For the year 1.984, ~here were 9,979 admissions. For the year 1985, l:.h~=!re tAH:!rE! 1.0,0 1)9 ·- nol:. rnt.lch chrlnge, plus . 8 per· cent. In 1986, l:hc,'re wc->.rc;! 10,01.9 -· not rnuch change, minus . 4· per CE!nt.

In 1987, thee~ last figuJ"e I have hc;!r'c->., thE!rE! tJJere 10,574, a plus 5. 5 pE!r cent incre,,as(,1. So Jn actual fact. from 1986 to 1987 therE! tJJere L1895 May 13, 1988 Vol XL increased adrnissi .ons to the->. Health Sciences,

whereas in the pre!vious two y~)iilrs thro!r'E! tAii'lS not much change - it was a little bit up or a little bit down - but: i.n actual fact in the morE! rE!Cent yE:~ar that T had figures for there was a significant increase. So I am jt1si: qt1ot:i.ng facts, not some,~ SOJ"t of s t:atements that somE:! pE!Op1~:! . 1 n 1:~ I< c~ o f f i". he l: o p l. h E'! -:i. r· hE:! ad s . SOMF. HON. Mf.M£3 E RS : Hear, hear·! MR . WELLS : Mr·. Speak~~r. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader · of the Oppos.it.ton. MR. WELLS: Mr. Speaker, the m:inistE~I" a11udE!d Lo the Adtn-:i. ni st r·a t.or· of t.he Hospital. WilJ. hE!

Sf.lY if ShE! IAJt~S SfH:~ak:inq accurately and re"+1ecting the trUE! situation whE!I'l shE! sa:icl that the Health Sciences Centre is operating almost entirely on an c,~mergE!ncy and IH'g~Hlt bt:~sts? Does that reflE:1ct thE! truth of ti'lE! situation at the Health Sciences Centr·e? MR. SPEAKER: l'he hon. the Min t s~er of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr·. Sp~~aker, again tho hon. rnE:·m~H;-!1" "i:> r'(!for·r· ·i. ng 1-.:o i:·ln Jnd·.iv·.iclui'll I~Jho was respondjng to a question in an "i.nterview. T do not: know how clE!arJ y shE!, in actual fact, was p r c;! p a r· e d f o r· H1 i'l t. q tH! s t-. i o n .

I d o not know what facts she had in front of her. I will certainly as I< that. But I do helVE• to po:i nt out l.:hdt tn 1987 ther'<:! W<cH'C:! 10, 5'74 admissions to thE! Hea1th ScienCE!S No. 36 R1B95

Complex, and I IAJOIJ]d not think l::hal: l:hosf:! 10,000 tAJore ornergnncy <:~dnri s !'dons. The total nurnber of r•1drrdssi:ons lo hosp"il:'.i'll.S t:hroughot~t the Pr·ouince in that year was i'1pproxirnc1l.:c-~l.y 90,000, so i:lbout one-ninth of all the admissions in Lhc;! Pl"ou·i.ncc;! t~J(.;!nl·:. i.nl:o thE! Hc'!i'1l.l:".h Sc:iE:~ncl':~s, so I doubt whether thE!Y admitted only emergency admissions. One-ninth of al1 thE! admissions in Lhe Province happened to go to the Health Sciences Complex. I like to derll in facts.

If the hon. member l.I.Jants to pick up little squibs out of television progr~mmes, where people are asked quE:~stions on l:.he spur· of tho moment and they have to respond on ~:h~~ spur of l·.:h(~ moment, he c;:1n do that, it j s a free country. When a s ~=! r· ·i. o 1 1 s :1. s s u o l -L k C'! 1-. h i. s c o rn o s up, T Jikf! to go to l::he SOUI"CE~ of t h i. 1'1 9 S i"l n d 9 ~~ 't-. d C 1·: I I d J. d 0 C I I HI B 1'1 'l". C'! d fetcts. MR. EFFORD : M r· . S pea kc~ r . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port dE! Gra'J c,~ . MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I i:\rn gJ.ad th(,~ Minister of fi(,~<:-~l.th referred to the high number of admissions in our hospit.ctl.s last year. That brings me to my question concerning ambulance dr·iuers, bE!Cause it must mean that the:~y requ:i.n~ a lot of fundi.ng and a lot of qualified staff to operate the arnbul.ancos.

In r·c.;!l.cttion t-:.o th~'! pr·otest:. f.,1nd 1-:h~:! march to Confederation Building 1. c..~ s t y c,~;:1r by l: ht'! opr-~rd t:or·s, ~~JOIIl.d the,~ rninisU:'I" tel1 us IAJhat p1~0g1ness has been rnadc,~ J.n g:i.u-i.ng n(,~Cf~~;!;r:·1l"Y 1 . . ] 896 May 13, 1988 Vol XL funding to put qualified drivers r'\1'1 d a !) 0 C 0 rt d i:l t: h~ n d a n •1·. 0 n l':i'H'! ambulances, and especiaJ.ly the prJtJR-1-.c,~ op<,~r·i.~tor· <:~mbl . tlanc~:!S ar•o1.1nd this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. ·the;! M-Ln-Lsl:.E:~r· of Heall:.h . .Q.lL COLLINS: Mr.

SpE!i:-J.kE!r, I am glad thE! nwmber asked that question, because I hap~en to have a few statistics in rny 1rrind. I do not have th~:·rn written doum hE!rE! but I have t:hE!ITI in my mind. Of all. the cnnbulanc•::> trips made to hospitaJs in this Pr·ou-Lnce, 9B pc:!r' c~:!nl:. o·f thE!rn nouJ haVE! a SE!Cond attendclnt on boar·d. NotAl, bon. tn<c~ITib(H' IAJi.ll undc;!r·st.and, of courSE!, thr::d: not E!UE!Iny arnb1.1l.ancc,~ ·t--.r·ip ts of an E!rn<;!l"qoncy nature requiring extra ass~stance.

So if you hdve 98 per cent of ambulance trips to h o s p-'i. i·. t.·\ l s co 'J f'! l" o d by d s C'! con cl attendant in addition to the eli" .i 'J <,~ l" , I 1 ,J o 1 11. d s r.1 y t-: h <:1 t t. h a l.: 'J E'! r· y likely covers 100 pr:~r CE!nt of tho stt.tJal:ions !.uhC'!('(.'! a sE~cond attendant is required. Hon. members will also reca11 that we hav8 a contract in place now with St. John Ambulance to pr·ovide L·. r a .i n ·.i. n g a n d t. o p I" o v t d E! :i n ····· s .:.~ r· u i c e upgrading to clrnbuJ.ancE! dd VE!rs, especially for Lhe second att.E!ndant. MR. EFFORD: A suppJ.ernentary, Mr. Speaker .

Mf~. SPEAKER: The hon. tho member for Port de Graue, a supplementary. MR. EFFORO: Make no wonder ho ts not Minister of Finance anymore, t,.J,:1 y h c,~ rni. !> l c;! ''' d s t:. h -.is H o 11 s E! fools around with figures! l: hE! thE! and No. 36 Rl896

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! DR. COLLINS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAfS,t:R: A point of order, the han. the Minister of Health. DR . COLLT.NS: The hon. mE:Hnber should be asked to IAI'i.i:hdr'i'IIAI thC.·lt IAJOr'd 1 rrdsl.eads 1 • MR. F.FFOIW : Mr. Speaker, if J said anything Lll'l p iH' 1 i a w"Hl liH' y , I 1.o1ri. 1. l w: i. t h c:l r· aIM any u n par' 1 i a rn E:1 n t a, .. y wo r· d s . MR. SPF()I<FR: The hon. mernbetn has t..ui thdrawn thE! s l:r:11:ernen1: . MR. EFFORD : Mr.

Spr:~akE!Y', I asked the MinistE!r of Hr:1c!ll.Lh a VE!Y'Y cl.~~ar· quest-Lon: How much funding has been provided to the ambulance opc~rators of l::hJs Province to hire second attendants and qualified drivers? The question was very clear. Would the minister answer that question. MR. SPEAI<ER : The"' hon. the Minister of HE:1a1th . DR. COLLINS: Mtn. Speaker·, T have absolutely no p r o b 1 E:1 rn "i. n t:. e~ l< .. i. n g t. h a t q 1 1 e s t i. o n a s notice. He wants me to give a d o l. 1. c:1 r F i. g 1 1 r· c:! i::t n d T. d o n o t h t:11J r~ a dolJiH' f:igUI"E:1 in rny m:ind.

In <::t d d i. 1'. i. o n i: o 1". h f'! t·l o I"I'Tli:ll s 1 1 b :; .i rl"i. E:1 s g:i vcHt, J do knot..u that IAH~ supply to 1:. he i'ltrlbttl. 1:-1r1 c c;! OIIJrlC'! r cd. g hi: c (Hl i·: s pet" kilomc-?.b-:11" fol" the paymEHlt for Lhe SC'!COnd r:tti ·:"!ndan'l:. Thr:~l·.: "iSH ballpark figure. As l:.o t.hc,1 actual number of dollars that eight cents rnuli.:iplted by kilometers, multiplied by numbers of tr:ips, mult.ipl.:iE!d by numbc"!r's of Ll897 May 13, 1988 Vol XL second attendants, with that dollar T t.o~Jill come up figure for the han. member as soon ~s T ~an. MR. EFFORD: A final supplementary, Mr.

Speaker . Again we see the minister not l<notAJ'i.ng 1Aiha1: J.s go -i.ng on J.n his departmE!nt. Let me Si:'lY to thE! . mirdsLE!r', ·i.s i.'i: not: C.'l fr)tCt., ~11n. Speaker, that the sum of $330,000 t~li::ts pi"OIJ ·i.dr,H:I for' i. n I.: he budg~:! 1·. , and of Lhat:. amount a $1.65,000 IAJE~nt i·.o p~·lY oFf li:·lsi :: yr~<H' 1 S cli:!I:JI::, and they have made absoluLely no gain s 1M h ,:q t: S 0 ( ~ IJ f'! 1.-. ? MR. SPEAKER: Or·dc~r, pler:~sc"!! ThE:1 hon. state!ment. In E!ITI b C'lr' ·i 5 Ill d lei. n g f.i I do not understand it diS c.~ qu~~s l:.:ion. MR.

EFFORD: Is it not a fact that $330,000 was provided in the budget, $1.60,000 went to pay off J.ast YE!ar 1 s cost, lr:~av:i. ng only $1.•B,OOO, t:tnd UJC'!r'e have been absolute1y no gains made to provide qualified drivers and second attendants to private arnbt~l.i:lnc~~s ar·ot.tnd t:hi . s Pr·ov'incc;!? MR. SPEAKER : Th(:1 l'l Otl. !:hr,1 Mints l:C:H' of lh:1 cllth . DR. COI .. L T.NS : Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is r:o11r·i ny ~~ri 1:h spec i. Foi.c F'.iqt.tr'r'!S, dnd I do not know if they are right or ned:. I told i : ht-~lfl Lha'i: T t.o~Jould f i n d 0 U t .

I t 0 l d t h E!lrt t h E! b I" 0 ad pi::tr'r'IHI~~i':er·s of ho1~1 l::h·.is pr·ogr·arn "i. s arr·anged, but I t.o~Jil1 COITIE! up t.o~rith i':hc,1 pr·ecis(:! fi.gttr'E!S. T. do not knoiAJ but whc'lt hE! is sayj ng :i.s full of hogtAJash, T. suspoct. il:: J.s, but. I do not knotAJ it is. I IAJil1 say t.h'is, U1at. t.hE!Y'e IAii'IS a 4 p~H' c~Hlt No. 36 Rl897

'i.ncr·~~r.\S~~ OlJE!r LI·H~ pr·r:'V'i.OLIS yc,~r:H' i.n the,~ budget I hat thE:~ hon. Minister oF F "i. nHrJCI~ I:H'Ol,lght dOI~In c:'\ l.·i.t.tl.c,~ IAJhJJc-?. ago, for· ambulance:' sr:11nv:ic(~S . . And l nr.:i.ght also say, Mr·.

Sp(~aker·, l: h i.·l I: we h i.·llH,~ r· o c ''~ ··i. lJ c,~ cl c.~ r· e q tH! s 1-. fi"OTII J (~gal counsel for the private op(;!l"i.'tt·.or·s <~lskJng 11s to lrtOIInt: r:'l fj nanc:ia1 study on th!i:~ whole SySi::E:1rn, and lAIC:~ Si:·\""i.cJ,. 1 0(~1.--i,gh'l:(;!d, 1 We ar·e:1 absolutely delight.E!d, 1 and tAle hav ,,1 r::Jono br.u: k l:o 1. c-?.ga 1. cou ns e 1. for the private ambulance opc-H'c:ltotns as to r'.l rlLI·rrt~HH' of t.l..lays it: might be done, and I think ver·y soon, ther·e tAd.l.l. be-?. rnul~.ual. agreement on the particular way it t.l..l··i. l l. be done . T h a 1-'.

IAri 11 g -i. v c-~ us absolute facts, and the hon . th'E! Leader of i::he Opposition knows IAJhat I am talking about becauSE! I 1:: o l. d h ·i. rn p r· e v t o 1 1 s 1. y I l i. k c;! d (~ r:'tl t n g in facts, not sor·t of glib s 1: a t E:! 1 n ('! n t:. s . · r h r:-1 1.: w·i. l. l. q -:i. v ,.~ absoluh~ facts as to IA.Jhether· theSE! s ''~ r lJ ·i c ('! s i'l r· e f 1.1 n d o d <:·\ rl o q 1.1 d 1·: ''~ l. y , IAI ~H:1 H1 <'! r· i 1: i s fund e:1 d in ad~~ quat (:1 J y , IAlhl'!i".h~)ln il: i.s f11ndc'!d too l'fii.ICh .

T h f~ s f~ ;:~ r· C'! t h ,,1 f 1:'1 c '1:. s 1·: h i'l 1: 1: h p private operators want:, they are th<;! fi.~Ci'.:S l:hi:ll'.: I~Je IAJi:'lnl-., r:'\l'ld IAJO c:lr'C:1 now putting in place a mutually r.lCcepl:r:·lbl.e rnr~chi'lni.s1n l:o gc,,i:. those~ fact!;. MR. STMMS : That: should be an NDP question, anyway. MR . GULL.AGE : Mr· . Sp~;;~ak<,~r. MR . SPEAKER: The hon . the member for· Waterford - K~H1mou nt:. MR. GULLAGE: M-r·~ · -s p (:1 a I<,,, r I a que s tion to the Mi. n ·i. s b:! r of H o 11 s "i. n g ( Mr· . P e cH: h) . Given t::hc,1 mandate that was doscr·i.bc'!d -i.n UH:!

B11dgc,~ 1:: f:. s +.·. 1.ma l ~ e s I 189 8 May J3, 1988 Uo] XI,. of l:h(~ N<,~IAJfotlndl.c:~nd i!tnd l .. abr·r:-1clor· Housing Corporation to provide hous-i.ng i:o l.OIAJ ·i.nc:otnf'! fc:·Hni.lir:!s, seniors and the disadvantaged, IMOIIl.d l·.ho rnJ.ni .SLOI" expl.d -i. l'l IAJhy lAIC:! continue to haVE! rnar'kE!t units. cornpc~ · l · : · ing IAJ"i l.:h l:. hc;! pr· .. i.vi'~ll·:c'! !>ector· in 'UIE! mi'.lrketplacE:1, mr.dntr.d.ned by '1:'. h r:~ go lJ c,~ r· nrno n 1".? MR. PEACH: Mr. SpeakE!r. MR . SPEAKER: Th~~ hon . t:he Minis · l:.(:~r of liousing . MR. PEACH : Mr .

Speaker, I am sure the hon . member is aware of housing and the vacancy factors and problems in Lhe city. I i ndicated earlier, Ml". SpeakE!r, that tAlE! IAJer·c;! a t t <-?. rn p +:. J. n g t: o E! n s u r· C.;! +: h a +.: o u r· rna r I< e t r E! n t: a 1 s , those OIAJn E! cl by N1;!wfo1tndl.c:·1nd dncl LdbrHdor· Ho1.1sj.ng, are in line with what the rnru·kwl:pl.dC:f~ 1'101.\J df~llli:\nds I elnd I.•.Jc:' have:1 that, Ml". SpE!al<c;!r', in pr'Ed:t :. y well nearly all place s in the Province.

I indicated a rental · i . nt:t"(~r'lse dltr ·i. ng i:h'i. :; yc,~i'lY' !>O IAIE! t.uould not be in compet:i .U.on t.~.ril: . h L h c,~ p r· i lJ ft +·. o s c;! c 1: or· . MR. GULLAGF.:: Mr. Speaker . MR. ~)PEAKER : The hon . thE! lTIE!Tnber· for· WatE!r ·ford -- K!i:Hllnount . MR.

GLILLAGE: W(;!ll, aga :L n, cons:idE!Y'ing the~ priority mandate that was dHscr .ibHd 'i.n l::hr:~ Bw:lgE!t EstirnatE!S was listed those three areas of hous:i.ng as most. ·J.rnpor·tant., tAlill the minister now assure us that l':.hC'! gOVE!rnlfl(:!l1t IJ.Jil.J. not: COITirrt:i.'l'·. to the $4.5 million they plan to sp~;!nd on l.lpgr·Hd ".i.ng, l'flij\k:i.ng li:~xter·ior r~;;'novat'ions and so on at Fl i. zr.~bcd: h TOIAJer·s, and not hi:·lVO No. 36 R189H

Net~Jfounrl1and and Labrador· Hous"i.ng, in particuJ.ar, continue to expend i::axpayer·s money on {l\ bu:i l.d i.ng i.n direct competition with . the privatE! sector? And not only do IAJE! haVE! the - MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, pJ.ease! T h "=1 h o n . m <,1 rn be r· i. s statement. This Si.lppl.<;!tn~:!ntary. Ml~. C,.lJ U .. AGF. : rna k i.ng is r)) Cl Thoso cost!; could go bE!yond the $~.5 million, to mcli ntenance, operatJons and energy supply.

WjJ.J th~~ mirdstE:H' assurE:1 us that t:hal ·: $11 . . 5 rni.JJ.i .on IJ.Ji.l.J. nol: not~.J bH ~>pent, but r·ath(:1r w:i.ll bE:1 dir<,1CtE :!d t o t~J c.u· cl s 1·:1-w rn c:11'1 d <.·1 t: P. t h i:·d:. h ~~ s 1:d d IAJas a pl"iori t y for· thE:1 goVE!r·nrnent? MR. PFACH: Mr·. Speakt-:!r' . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the M'i.nister of Hot~si. ng . MR. PEACH: Mr. Speaker, I rlo not know ·i.f the hon. mernbe!r is indicating to the House t:hat. he !J..Jould lii<E:1 i:.o s~H' ! no funding spEHlt on securing and making EJ.izabeth Towers suii:.clble for· the tenants IA.Jho ar(:1 there. We do have tenants there, Mr.

Sp~1ak~1r, IA.Jho require that the b1.1i.l .d·i.ng b<'! in pr·opE!r ' cond-.ition . We are aware, as I am sure the 1r1 (,11fli:H,H' "i. s , L h a ·t. i·: h r,H' <,1 J. ~; s oHIo d~~ter:iora'l-ion in th<,1 bu:il.ding and i. t: n r,1 (i! d s t . o b ~ ;! I" r:! p r:~ "i I" r'! c:l . IJ\J r,1 :indicated som(~ tim~:! ago t.hat. we IAJOtll.d, OlH'!r' l·:hH noxl. i:'.IAJO 1-:o 1-·. hr'l!!r.~ y ~~ d I" S b ~~ S p (:~ I'Hh r1 g S 0 ITH~ $ 4-. 2 ln·i.J.l·ion or· $tl . . !'i 1ni.l.l ·ion on ElJz~both Towers. Bul, Mr. Sp('! ak('!r, IAJf:! do manadaU:1 to provide rentaJ.

L1899 May 13, 191l8 h;:~ve i.·1 housing Vol XL accommodations in this Province. I do not know if you wouJ.d get any suggri:is+.:-.i.on t·: hat. IAJE! · sh(wld ask the people who are in our housing units in St. John 1 s and StephE!nvilJ.e to vacatE! i:11E!rn. Then I~.JhE!r'e IAJOI~l.d they go? I get a request E!VE!ry SE!Cond or third day from t:he hon. member for people who arE! looking for sorn~1 of OUI". 1.1n'il:.s. VJe hi:·l~e. Mr·. Sp(;!aker·, over· the past number of years pu t many of (JIIr' tlnJ.ts LIP for Si!tl.r.~ :in t:h i.s P1"ovince.

We had a gr'E!clt numbE!Y' of lll'l'i.l ·:s .in ~:)tr.~phentJ'i.l.l.~:! l.dst. Y~'!al" bought from us, and obta:i .I'Hi!d by i'ho pr·'i.vr'li:r;! sr~c l':or·. Bf~C i.' II.ISe of that IAJe haVE! adjusted our· rE!ntals 1: h ·i. ~; yo a r· "i. n S 1: r~ ph <,1 n tJ i. J.l c,1 so t h c:~ f.: we would not be in competition IAJ"i. l::h i:h0S(,1 p<,10pJ.r~ IAlhO p1.11"Chi.·1SOci o u I" u n :i t s .

We a r· E! a 111.J a y s o p (• n , M r . s p 1,1 a !< <,11" , 11.J :i. ·I: h o 1.11" 1.1 n :i f:. s u p F o I" sale, so if sornE~ prtvate :investor· I.A.JHnLs 'i':o tr:1kr,1 l':hoso 1.1n'i.t~s and 111akc'! them a viable operatJons we are opE:!n. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : A t.inaJ. suppl.E!Inentary. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, the m:1noist:.<;!r cont ·inues not to anst~J('!r rny questions.

My fina1 supp1~Hn~~ntar·y i .s that. gi.tJen tho ITii:~ndi-1I:E!, oncE! again, of Newfoundland and l.dbr·,:ulor J-Jc)tlsing, IJw facl: . l: h r.d : these buiJ.d:i.ngs, not: ju s t~ F:J.:i.7r:·1br'!i:h TOIAJ~i!Y'S, but PleasantvJ11e, Churchill Square '" n d I. ·i n d C'! n Co 1 1 r· L , 1 ... o n "' HHi! 1 ... h f.'! ci. f: y J.ocations, ar'"=1 all. in cornpl':'U.tion 1~J"i.l.:h Lhn pr· · i . IJHh~ sec·l·or·, 1:~nd Lh<;! reason why the government cannot - ~-IL_l) P E J!_l< E R : Or·dc-:'!r', pl<,1 aS(:1! MR. GULLAGE : No. 36 Rl899

- dispos~~ of EJ.:izabeth TOL~Jers tJJas . becat~sc,~ thf:~ las+: t'i.rnc~ i. ~. IJ.J£HJt on .. MR. SPEAKER : 0 I" chH' , p J ~~ a s f:~ ! MR. GULI..AGf : p11 b l 'i c l·.o nd E:! r· UH'! Ul'li'lCCE~pt:abJ.E~ bE~cause sell'i.ng onf~ Mf~. SPE:AKr::l~ : Ol"der·, pleaSE!! l:f~l'ldf~r·s t h~~y IAJ("! I"(~ WE:~ I"(,' Would the hon . TTIE!rnber plE:~ase sit dot.~Jn? I have drat.•m the hon. rnE~rni:HH' 1 s attention, on two occasions, that tJJh:ll.e he;! 1.41as asking lri.s fi.nal. supplernentar·y he tJJas making a stat.~nnent. I ask hirn notAl l·:o dir·ect hJs final supplE!mentary.

OthertJJ-i.SE:!, I IAI'il.l. recogniZE! sornE:! other hon. member. M R . G U I. I. A G f. : Will. Lhe mi.rd.st:E!r, Mr·. ~3p~~r:qkl=H', assure us that he will put all un -i.i:s on l·:hf:! rnHrkei-., not: j11st on('! set. of units to be !;o1.d by public t c,HJ d E~ r , d n d i:. h a t i. n F i'l c I: '1: h c"! $ LJ. . r, ruiJl.Jon wiJ1 not be expendc,H~ on fl.i..t:r.1bwl :h To1*;!r·s? MR. SPFAKE'R: T h E! h o n . 1:: h C'! M i. n i. s 1:. E~ r N r:~ I>~ I F o 1 1 n d 1. i:'t n d and Labrador Housing .. MR. PEACH: M I" .

S p E:1 a I< e r , i t i s s o rm.u h a t i r· o n :i. c that thr'E'!(,1 members on the oppos i. U! side today had to be called to order for not abiding by the rules of the House. Mr·. Sp~1akEH', i.n St. John 1 s, in Centennial M~Hldows, as onE! E!XamplE! 1: h ~~ rn (,1mb e r· u s e d , lAJ c,1 h H v E:! J. n d i. c ;:1 t. ,,1 r:l a rHntaJ. incr·ease of 6 per CE!nt Ll.900 Mel y 13, 1. 9 8 B lJol. XL this year·, bE!Cause :Lncr·(,1r:1SE~ 1Hs I~ y~~i'I.Y', bd.ng it up to tho thE!re IJJas no ;:tnd that. wJll. market rE!nta1

l) i:'l l. 1.1 (,1 :i. n 1:. h i:t l·. c:1. t" ('! "' • At·. El. -i./.HbE!t.h :incl:i.catE!cl an Towers tJJe have not ·'i, n c r· c~ i:'l s c;! i: h ·i, s y r;! "' r· b ~~ c: c:-1 1 1 l> e o f +: h C'! r·enovat:i.ons, and thosl;1 Y'ElnOVcllions d r' (:! d b ~; 0 "I I I l: C! "I, y 1'1 0 C (,1 S S d r· y b E:! C i.·l U S 0 of thE! d~1tE!r·jor·ation that. has 1-:t.·li<E:!I'l pJ.r.lCC'! on i·.hi:tl-.: SOifl~:! Lto~JC,'I'li':y . year old structure. At P:i.nebucl, l_ ·i.ndE:!n Col.tr·t ;:-1nd rlll.Hndi:·llr:! lAIC'! at"e inc~easing the rents, Mr. Speaker, by 10 per cenL.

That will mean that they will be only 1 pE!r cont. b~:!l.OtAJ t.he rnar·l<c,1 t. r·~1ntal.s in that particular area. In C h u r· c lri.ll S q u a l" e , IAJ e iH' E! cl o i n g somE! 4 t:o 12 p<,1r cent incr'E!aSE!S. At Plc,1as;:~ntv:i.llE!, l l.:o H pE!r Ct'.!t'l't., and in Arnold 1 s Loop, Pl.E~asanl:: v.i.l.J.~~. t.•.JE! ar·c;! going to incre•aSE! the rates thE!re by sorn('! '1.0 pc-?.r' CE~nt. We'! lAJOulcl hi:~V\~ p r· o b a b 1 y i n c r E! a s E! d t h o s E:! m o r E! tAri t: h thr:~ t'Tit.'tr•ket vr.~J.ue, b1.1l-: boca11se L•.Je have ongoing renovations in many 0 I" 0 II Y' II 1'1 :i 1'.·.

S IAJE:! ·f' E:! 0 l. 1:. h Cl 1-: C (;! r• l:. i\l 'i 1'1 :increases would not be :in ordE!r'. 1 n s otrH~ thrr~c;! btt i lc:li. ng s, 1 i: h:i. n k, in Pleasantville, Buildings 501, 10fi •Hld 30'7, IAll~ hi:-\l)f~ SOIIIO probl ~:!InS there with the federal government, t.'l d 'i. s p 11 1·. c,1 o

l) n r· :1 i:l n c:l ; a n d lJ.J (~ f e l. t that a r'E:Hil:al :incr·eas~~ lAJouJ.d not b r,1 · i. n n r· d C'!r' b c,1 c i:-1 11 ~; ~~ l~H,' d n n o 1:. h t.'l v E! the SE:'curit:y of thE! J.and i'lnd UHH' f~ f ()I'' f:! lJ.J<:! F ('! 0 J. 1-: 1'1 d ·1-: s 0 ITl E! renovations tJJould not be in order. Mf~. SIMMONS: Mr. Spc,1akc-?.r . MR. SPEAKER: The hon . t:h .c;! Herrrd.tagE!. r1__L.J) 11'1~~~: Mr·. SpE:!aker·, q1H1sti.on to LeiAJi s portE!, Envir·onrnf~nt RusSE!ll), who 1\Jo. 16 ITtemb<'!r' for· For·t:une - I want to put a my good Friend for the Minister of and Lands (Min. made an announcement Rl900

a couple of days ago about a conl~ract to cJ.ean 1.1p the PCB t.o~JastA at the US radar site in Cartwright. Conspicuously absent from the statement is any i nd'i cation of how t: he PCB s are to be storE!d, or Wh(:~ther thE! sH:E! is to be secur·Hd. Wot.tld I·H,~ :ind:icatc,~ ·t: o the H o u s e i n s p e c if i c s 1.11 hat i s t: o b (:1 d o n C-:l to s tor·~~ or o t h ~=! rtJ.J i. s e dispose of the PCBs? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Lands. M R . fW~:>S F. I. I. : Mr.

Sp~~aket", thc,1 f'.incll dec.i s:i.on on tAJI·wre Uw y cH'e going to bo s tor1~d l'lc'ls no-t-. bc-:!(Hl mad(~ yet, but as soon i:•l S 'i l: ·; S T IAI"i "1.1 b r,1 p l 1,1 r'\ ~; (! d 1:0 :i nfcH'flt han. rnember·s . ThE:1Y ar·c,1 t.o b o c l () d n E! c:l 1.1 p p r' o pot' l. y "' n d !> l': or· r,1 d :in bc'l.t"I"E!] s and aJ.l t.hc1.t k:ind of i::h"i. ng, bttl" l'.·.hf'! l' "in<:ll J.ocdt "i.on tAl l·t e t" ~'! t h E:1 y a r· e g o :i n g t. o b ~~ s t o r E:~ d h c:~ S n 0 1: b P E! n d E! C i d ~HJ . T 1..11'.i. 1 J. 1 Cc! t you knaiJJ. MR. STMMOI\!_§: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary, thE! hon. member for Fortune - Hermitage . MR. SIMMONS : I t~.Jant the minister anstAJCH' :in m:i.nd i.n t:he the next question, relab~s- MR. LONG : to bear contc~xt becausE! A point of order, Mr. Speaker . Ml~. SPFAKFR: the hl.s of :it A pojnt of ot"cler·, thE! hon. the rnf:!tTibfH' for· ~li :. John 1 s F:r"'IS 1·:. MR. I..ONG : r-'1 I" . ~; p e 1~1 k c;! r· , my p o "i. n 1 ~ of or· dot" J ~; that it is very frustrating to sit l".hrough ;:~ QtH!S l:i on PfH'-i.od o·f only L.1901 May 13, 1988 Vol XL half an hour and hear the long prE!dlllbl.c~s by membc;!rs of l::hE~ Opposition.

The SpE!akE!r' t:oclay hds cont-Lnuousl.y call .f=!d the members to order for long

preambles. Now, it seems to me, Mr. Speaker, we are going to go through another Friday without having an opportunity to ask a q u e s t'i. o n at a 11. . 1 IAJ o u l. d s ·.imply . appeal to the Speaker to demand that there be shorter

preambles, esp&c:ially in supplementary qttes t.j.ons, by rnentbf=!r's of thE! U.beral Party. SOME HOI\J. MEMREr~s: HE:~ar . , hE1ar .! MR. SPEAKER : Orrlc:!r', plfo!i'\S~:!! T h ('!I" 0 i s n 0 p () i. n 1: 0 F 0 Y' cl f;! r· . r would point out that the hon. ttlf:!rnbr=!t" , .. .. is·ing on r:-1 !>pt.ti"'.'iotts poi.nt. of ordE!r is acl':tJa11y using) up l .. hE• C[tlest "'i.on l:itnn. The han. the member for· For·tun~:! - lifH'rn:i. ·r.<:lge. MR. SIMMONS: I l.o~Joul.d even comp1.irn~mt such a short

preamble t"i.rn~~ around. Wi'\t.ch t:h ·i.s directly to the question. myself on the first one,~. I go Will the minJ.ster confirm - MR. SIMMS: T t~t.ill. not-. congr•1:1 t.ul.ah;! yo1.1 but l will listE!n. r1_R. SIMMONS: T t ·i. s . hf~rE!d:i. tar·y . MR. SIMMS: Nol: Frout my s·.'i.de . MR. SPEAKER: Or·der·, pJ.~~1:1sc;!! !:>OM F.: HON. MEMBERS : No. 36 R1901

Hear, hear·! MR. SIMMONS : As long as they ar·e having as much fun as we are having, Mr. Speaker. MR. STMMS: YO-u-r· --p-,~~ am b J ~~ :is ato~Jfu1 J.y 1ong i:llt"c,1 ad 1J . MR. SP F AKFf~ : Ordc~ln, p] t:1aS"!! MR. SIMMONS: Do you allow that to go on :indE!fi.rl"'i.t.E!l.y, Mr·. Spc,1ai<E!r? I cHII e:nnbarrassed that hE! is related to ITIE:1 • ~R. SU'If\1.§: You are embarrassed! SOME HON. MEMBERS : -------·-·----Hear·, hecH'! MR. SPEAKER: Or·der, please! MR. SIMMONS: When tht:1-s hc,1ep are finished, Mr. S p e:1 a k o r· 1 T IAri. l J. p 1.1 t a q t.IC'! s ·1--. 'i. o n t o the Jamb over there.

Wi lJ he c () n f "i. r· rn t. h r'\ 1: 1 C:il s i ~ A ll g I I s t: I i. n 1: h H pr·ocess of cJei'Hdng up another IJSAF s·il:r,1, PCIJs WE!rr,1 r.tcc-i.donl ·.-ir.tlly not only d:iscovE~rt:H:I but sp:illed, r· (:1 s 111. L ··i. n 9 -i n s OHif~ tnr~ ci·i c a J. lo!Xandnat:ions of the personrH:1l i. n v o l. v r,1 d I r· ~~ s 1 tl t ·i n g -i. n r.l f r.t s t c,1 x i. i: f r· o rn the s :i t e . T h e:1 s :i. t c~ has not. b(!~:!n cl.~:!<:·ll'lC.:!d 11p l~.o l·:h·"i.s poJ.ni : "i.n time. Will he confirm that his offi.ci.mls (~st. i.mate the cleanup of this site could take up to $1 million?

Would he confirm that i.s the case, first of all? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Mirl"istE!r of Environmen t and Lands. 1.1902 Mi.•\ y l3 I 1. 9 8 8 Vol. XI.. MR. RIJSSEI..I._: I do not knotJJ what sitE! the hon . membcH' -i_ s rco!f (H' r:i . ng to, Mr. Speaker. He is poring these vague quc~s'l:i . ons .-~nd come,~ !> o11t w i.l::h no specifics whatsoever. If he has a s p r,1 c ··i. f i. c s ""i. t: F.! d n d s p e c .J. f J c j nfor·ma ·l:ion and sp(~Cific ev:idE!ncr,~, thc:!n I IAJi.ll. bH pl.odS(~d t-.o r'( ' !Vir:~tAJ J.t 0 MR. SIMMONS : Mr· . .S p e:1 a k E!Y' . MR.

SPEAKER : J1 t:inal suppl.ew<:!ni:ru·y~ t:he h o n . hhe member for Fortune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS : Nothing is very vague about an indication to thE! rnj n:i.stE!r of which he should be aware. MR. SPEAKER : A po-Lnt of ordf'!Y' I th<'! hon. the Premier. MR. STMMONS : This is unbridled harassment! PRFMIER PfCKFORD: T h f~ h o n . 111 f~ m b c,H· i s o n c:il supplE~mentar·y, but hE! gets up and <; i: <'\In U; llli.~ k ·j n 9 r'l s i-.a t EHrl(! 1'1 1·: 0 T h fH'E! should be no preamb1e whatsoever on l:hr:! sr,1cond st . lppl.f~Ht(:!nl:.c:·\I"Y l~o a question that he has already asked t: hc~ rni.ni.st:f' !r.

He:! gel:s 11p i:~nd starts making st~atemtents, and her·e ~~~(~ h<~1lJ('! othf~r· rn<,1lllbf~I"S of l::he House who have not had an opportunity to ask a quf~st.i. on. The hon. ITH>.rntH>.r is just abusing the rulE!S of LhE! 1-101.1 s C.;! ag<:·l""i. n. MR. SIMMONS : As I was saying, Mr . Speaker . MR. SIMMS : Shameful! Challengj ng Mr. SpE!akE!r No. 36 R1902

as he alw~ys does . MR . ~3PF.:AKFR: To that point of order·, I think we und<-i!rstand l:: hHre should bf'! no

preamble to a supplementary. Ct,1Y'tclinly to d f:i.n<ill suppl.e,1TnE:1ntar·y there should be no need for any

preamble whatever. So T would ask thr;;1 hon . men1ber just to posE:1 hj s qu(~stion. The hon. lhE:1 rnc,11Tlb(;!r for· Fortune - Hermitage. MR . SIMMONS: Mr.

SpE!aker, I ask the minister· hotAJ in thP nam(,1 of ever·y t.h :i.ng Lhr.d-. is sensib]E:1 can he stand her·e this morning ~nd sRy that he ls not aware that there is such a site in Nor·l··hE:H'I'l N(~IAJfOtlrH : IJ.r:Hld? l·lnt~J C:i:tn ho :,ugg(~St l: hi'..tt thE:H'E:1 j S vagtHHlBSS in <.·\ pt"oj f'!C:l'c'!d uri.l.l."i.on doll ~r· cos 1.: to c J e,1 i' . .\1'1 u p a s :i t (-?. t h a t: h rl s 11 o t b e (Hl sf'! c: 1.1 r· r:! d , l: h rit l: h ·i !; oFF ·i. c J d 1 s :. c tH' 1" :i e d out of , that they have no(·: al.CH'h1d t.h(,1 fl(Wpl.t:! dOIAJn 'i'.ht'!r ' (~ about people who are berry picking a l.

J. i:\ r o 1 1 n d I~ h H s :i. t r:! , d d y i. n d 11 d day out? Jf hE:1 wants me to name lht->. s i. te, ye->.s, thr,1 s-i.·I-:E:1 .... MR . SPEAKER: Or·der, pleaSE!! MR. SIMMONS: I thought it was a per·fec-Uy good question. MR. SPEAKFR: Or·d(H', pl.(~ase! TI'H'! hon . rn(~JntHH' has CIS !<f:!d ;:~ question and he continues now to rn ill k ('! a S ti:~ t e lrl E:Hl 1". . Ml~ . SIMMOI\IS: I ant not f:i rd s he->.d thc,1 ques t.ion . MR. ~)f>F~KFR: Wt':!ll, tl·t(,Ht, Ute-?. hon. rnornb(-?.r' s qt.tes l.:i.on -i. s i'.oo long. 1..1903 May 13, 1988 Vol XL. The hon. member shouJd just ask a q11os t: i.on.

Tl'ds i.s a final. S I I p p l. e;11n eHl t.iilr' )' . Thc,1 hon. HH~ IIIE!Jfii:HH' for Fort1.1ne - HE:1rmi tage. MR. SIMMONS: Afr.<·H' no prt~ambl.c,~, noiAJ J t hi;tS to be short questions. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, .oh! MR. SPEAKER: Ord(-?.r, pl.e,1ase! PRF.:MIER PECKFORD: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A f>O "il'll". or or•dt :!l", l':.hr~ hon. tho PI"E!m:i.er·. PREMIER PECKFORD: T'hn tnonlbf'!Y' F'ot" Fot"t.uno - Hl'!l" tn"i.l:.ag<:! just got up and chal]engod your Honot.lr'. 11r,1 got 11p ''\nd look(;!d al:. the Chair and started to challenge tAJ·i. th a colrnnc,~nt Your· Honour·'s ruling.

Now IAJe cannot alJ.oiA.J thJs to hap fHHl . r he h on . me Ill L·H~ r h r.1 s a 11 the freE!dorn in the lAJorld to ask quc;!st i.ons orig-Lnal qu(:!S t.:ions, supplementary questions, and all the I"C,1St but. IAJhE!n he-?. turns to the Speaker and starts to d:i.sputE! i::l r·ul. ·i.ng of i:h( ~ SpeakE!r' of this HousE!, thE!n he is undE :!rmjn:il1g e,1 v e:1 r· y 1:. h i. n g 1: h i'l t ~ : h 'i. s H o 1 1 s E! -j s a 11 about, and he s houJ.d not b(! c:ll. J. OlAHH~ l·: o g Ed: ,:·llAii'l y w:i L: h i. t. , M r· . Speaker. MR. _SIMM~: H ,,1 doc~ s it r.1ll. t: he t .. i. rne . SOMF HON .

MEMBERS: 1\J i:ll n r~ h ·i. rn ! 1\1 a rn e:1 ~r:i. rn ! MR. SPEAKER: No. 36 R1903

0 r· d e r I p l. e a s e ! To that p o i. n L of or d e r· I T d ·J. d no t quite get that understanding fr·orn l:h~~ cornrn~Hlts l-.hc:·1l:. IAH~r·(,1 m<.~df~ by Lhe hon. thE! m~=!mber· for· FortunE:1 Her'ITI i.tagc,1. Bu 1:. I dffl noJ;J goi.ng l:o r· ~~ cognizE:~ t: 1·1 (,~ 11 on . the me rn be r· for ~3 1:. . John 1 s E ;:·1 s 1· .. SOME l-ION. MF.Mrl F I~S: Hei'!l", ht:~CII"! Mf~. 1.01\JC: Thank you, Ml". SpHr.lkCo~l" . tn i:ho shor·t 1':-i.HH:! l"f~rnr.ttn-i.ng -L n Quest:i on Pt:~r:iod, Mr. Speai<E!r, I I~JouJ.d l.i.kc-~ to ;:·1sk th~~ Mi.rdsh:!l" of Socjal Services (Mr.

Tobin) to follo1AJ up on et d:iscuss t on IAJE:~ had some weeks ago in the Estimates Cornrn:itt<:!e. Could he Jnfonn thP House of the situation at the Lransiti.on house for battered women in Lab City, which j _s op(->.rat.E!d by woiTien on a vol.Lint.E!f~r basj s, IJJhE!thE!r the mirdster is abl(-?. to gi.vC::~ an Jmdert.ak'ing tha.t. more monies will be provided than LlJas al.locat.E:H~ :in th(;! budge ·t. H1at was brought down some months ago? MR. SPr:-AKfR: T h (~ h o n . ·1 ... h f:! r"' :i. n .i. s t. (:1 r· o f ::; o c 'i. <.~ l ~::;el"v:ices . MR. TOBT,N: r"' r· .

S p c~ •'1 k c:! r· , I c n r· ·1·. i'l ·i. n ly '''H rl'l': 1-. o l"(,~cogn:i:Le thE:~ qtH:!St:ion c'ls pr·obab]y o l'lf'! oF L·.hf~ 1nos t J.eg i. t i 111,:~ tc,1 o I'H'!S 1-hat: IAJcl!> asl«,~d h(,H'E:~ t.h:i s rnol"n:ing. T <~lso I~J<HlL l:o r·r:!C:Oglri.?.c'! i·hH fdc:-1.: t·hat it was Pl"obably the fir·st CflH~SI.: · i.on i'lSkfH:i hE!rf~ Hds rnondng that Your· Honour· did not have to c i'll.l. <"~ lll<:Hn~.H:! r· t. o cwd (;! r iHl d (:1 x p l c:·l"i. n the ru]es of the House. Now, l'-1r . S p (:1 i:l I< E! r, HH,1 :indeed legitimate. allocat-ions made as i.t the housE! in Labrador.

Ll90'1· May 13~ J.9BH quf=!st i. un ·Ls TherE! were r'(-?.lat.<:!S to The group Vol. XL of people down there are having some difficulty as it reJ.atE!S to b ~;!"i_ 1'1 9 i:·1 b l. (;! t 0 0 p (·?.r' (jl t e IAJ"i. t h t: h E! allocation that has bE!C::11'l mad(o!, and '"' E:1 a r· c,1 l. o o k .. i n g a 1-. t. h r:~ t•.J h o 1 ~' pr·ograiTIITIE! to SE:~E! if and IJJhat. can be~ dont'!. Ml~. LONG : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAI<ER : A s u p p J E:' rrH:! rl'l: a r y , u, (,~ h o n . the l'fiC'! JrJ I:HH' f

I) r· ~) t . John 1 s F 1:1 s 1·: . MR. LONC: 'T'h;:1nk yo11, Mr·. Sp(:!ak(->.r'. My Stlppl.ew~nl'.:;u·y IAJOJ.Jl.d be;!: In vielAI of thE! fact that.: the t r a n s :i i:: J. o n h o u ~; (;! h E:! r· E~ 'i. n ~) l'.: .

John 1 s, K'irby HouSE!, IAJh'ich :.ls l. o c at<,~ d -i. n 10 y o IAJI'l d i. s 1:. r· i. c t: , has turned away in the last twelve rnonl·.: hs OV('!r :1.2 1:) IAJOIIIt,!n IAI'ilh approximately 200 children involved, will Lhe rni.nister give an undertaking to review the s i t: u a t'.i. on a t I< "i. r· by H o us E:1 to provide for basic problems, soi.l'lCE! pol.i.ce have adv'i.sed that s t r u c t u r a 11 y the house n tO! e d s IAJO r· k on l: h c,1 o 1.1 1-. s i. cl e to s t~ c u r· (,1 "i. ·1:. ~~~ n cl ma k E:1 i t a s a f e r p l a c e ?

ThE! y cannot. do "i.l: bE!CC:·\I.ISE~ ot· under--funding plnoi:JJ.(:HTIS, W·Jl]· l:.he m'i.ni.:;{:nr· lll'ldf~r·takn l:o r'c' ~IJ:i.E:!!J.J l::hr;! sttuat:.jon of '1-:hf:! tr·ansit:ion houSE! ·Ln Si:. John 1 ~; i'l:> dn ind:i .ci:tl ... i.on of the government 1 s cornrnitment Lo c:lc·~dl sr::!r'"i.Otisl .y IAJ 'i. th l:ho pr·obl t'!lfl of battered women in our society? MR. SPEAKER: -···------- Th~~ hon. -1-:hf:! M:i.n:ist:f~l" of ~3oci.aJ. Ser·vtces. MR. ·TOBIN: Mr·. SpeakE!Y', th'.is gover·nrn(;!nt has a great cornrnitrnent to all social issues in thjs Province. I b 0 l. "i. E:~ V E! t. h i~ l:: 1:: h C:1 t :i.

S l'! V ·j_ cJ (:;! 1'1 t I~J h E! n one J.ooks at and makes assessments No . 3 6 Rl904-

of the budget increases that haVE-J 1:. d I< ,.~ n p l. a c (:1 i n I: h i s P r· o tJ i. n c: r,1 i. n th~=! r.od al dE!par·trnents, p m r· 1: -i. c 1 1 1 a r· l.y s i. n c r,1 1. 9 '7 9 . T c ''~ n :.ay ~.o the question just asked, as i l: r· o l e~ 1·: ~~ s I~ o rn y d <:1 p t'\ r· t rn f~ n 1-. , t. hal:. r1o dj v:ision in this d~~par·trnE!nt. has I"~~CE:1'i.V~~d l.c;!SS Fundi.ng onc,1 IJE~ar· than from !':.he previous year. We iH' c,1 ;~ d d r· 10:1 s s i. n g "i. ·t. ..i. n R v e r y ser·ious way, Mr.

Speaker, and as ·it rc,1l.ates to rev:lc~IAI of polic:ic-?.s and programmes, that is ongoing 1.u'i.Uri.n Lh<"! depar·tmE~nt. fr·orn ttrnc.;! to time. MR. LONG: A final supp1ementary, Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKER: A final supplementary, the hon . the lfi<:Hnb~H· for St. John 1 s f.;:·1 s t . MR . UJNG : Thank you, Ml". Sp10:1ai«:H'. My f i n ,:1 1 s t.l p p 1 f~ 111 f~ 1·1 h:·U" y 1 I~JO 11 l d JJke to put to the Minister of c ;:~ r· E:! <:1 r· D r,1lJ r~ 1. o pHI E! n t '" n d n c:lcJ "' n c c,1 d Stud:i c-?.s, IAJho j s also the m:in:i shH' r· f~ s p o n s i . b l. 0. f o r· I Jw ~:H. a 1·. 1 1 ~; of llllomen.

I 1.uould Jik<-?. to ·ask the minister: 1n v.i.c:11Al of !':he fact t.hat. all thr't:.H-?. government funded transition housc;!s in the Pr·ov i . ncE~ ar'<"! fmc ·i.ng severe difficulties in rnec::d:ing the dc-?.mand in cr-:i.sts cr.:~lls, IAI:ill the minister responsible for the Status of Women begin to :implement a public education programme to addr·ess UH'! sr:H'"i.ousn~>.ss of domestic violence and violence against. .wom<:Hl "i.n ti·H;! holnE:1, as iHl "i. n d "i. c (·l t ·i. on of l:. hE! s ~~ r· i. o us n E:' s s I.~J"i. t. h which this government views this dornc,1st"i.c pr·oblC'!m, th "i.s soc'i.i:ll. probJ.em?

Wi]] the minister g:ive a C 0 ITilfl i. L HIE'! 11 1:: 1·: o r:Hl (;!(:Ju <>l i ·. "i 0 n p r· o g r· a mrn c;!? MR. SPF.AKFR: I J 905 May 13, 19 88 Vo] XL The hon. the Minister of Career Df'!lH:1l () prn~Hl i: and Ad v o:Hl c E:1d s t: I I d :i.E'! s . Ml'. MATTii EWS : That process has already bE!gun. I h i.~ \) f:1 h d d d :i. S I; 1.1 S S :i. () t1 S IAI ·i. t. h t. h e Minister of Social s~~rv :ices, and the Minister of Justice and Attorney-General as IAiell, IAiith r c.;! g d r· d i':. o p 1 1 b J. -i. c r· (:1 l a t. "i. c:i n s , j u s t . recently, Mr .

Speaker~, lAJE:! rE!J.~>.ased a manual. on conquering IAI·i.fe abuse, r·ely.ing on various agE!n<:iE:!S to c:\ s s :i s t u s :i n a d d r E~ s s ·i. n q l.: h ·.i s v E! r· y serious problem throughout the P r· o v .i. n c C'! , a n d ·i n d E! c;! d 1:: h r· o t.l g h o u t the country. And our very thrust . i. s o n f:! of ~~ d 1 1 c: a t.: ·i. o n a n d p u b 1. :i. c awarenE!SS, bE!cause we IAJant to :'i.niJol.vf>. I: he.;! i-.o l:r.1l corrunun:i.l::y, s i.ncc~ it is a problem, Mr·.

SpeakE~r, that wosl:: pr.:!opl.<"! .. i.n s oci.ef·: y do not IAIEtnt to sort of ge:1t in the middle of, bocdll!>f '! l:hHIJ fc= ~E~l rnosl': oF "i. l·. :.is dorrrE:1SLic and thE!Y so1"i: of LclkE! a I h i'l n d ~ ' 0 r r I d p pI"() i:•l c h ' So wc::1 ar·e ver·y much invo1vEHJ in ·l·.hHl·. a.l.r·nc-lc:IIJ, Mr·. SpE~i:-lkf:!r', dnd 1.*,1 were very proud, a few months ago, to l"r:1lf~c:l~;r~ t'l rndnual +:helt IAli':lS prepared by my department, p r.1 r Li c 11 J. r.\ r l.y by t: h tO!

Worn~~ n 1 s Pol t c y Office, and Provincial Adv:isory Co1.1nci.J. on tho Sl:dt.u~; of WornE!n, and other related groups· like that had 'i.nput . .inl:o l:h<->. rnanual.. MR. SPEAKER: The t:i.rrre for Oral Quest:i.on 1 s hf.ls elapsc-?.d. Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given Tho hon . the~ Mtns l·c,1r· of Consurn1:!r' Affairs. MR. YOUNG : Mr. l·.ho Spc-:1c~kc:11", I IAJOu1d l:ik~:! t.o !::ablE! an s IAJH r· 1: o UH~ q 11 r~ s t:. ·.ion i:l ~; k o d No . 3 6 IH905

by the Leader Party, of tht~ New Democratic 153. Question number Orders of the Day MR. SPEAKEr~: Ckc:l ~=! r l , Con c u r-r-EHl c f~ Mo'l: ion. Tl·w hon. ti'Ho~ member' fot" But"g<o~O - Bay d 1 Fspo .i.r· ;:lcljot .tr·nnd th(~ dc,~br.<l : (~ . T h 0 h 0 n . 1.: h (! HHWII:) I'! r· r () r' R I I r· 9 C·

H) Ray d 1 Fspo:ir. MH. Cli.BFRT: ----·--·- fl<o1fOr'c'! T. cldjOIIr'n<'!d l:h(;! df:!bc:~l·c:! on t. h<->. Govco~l"nTIIent Serv:i ces Est.tmates, l had rnacl(:1 ;:~ fE~IAI shor·t r:ollllfHHJI-.s; T r..\gr·eed with UtE! Chairman that thE! Co rrnn i. 1:: 1:. EH~ had IAHH' I«;H~ v ~H' y I~JC,~ J. l. and I sa:i.d that I lAJOlJ1d be COITIITIE!nU ng on t.he two iH'E:'as I atn r·c;!spons i.bl.e for·, and the others in shadow positions over here would be speaking in their turn. One of my two areas was Public Wor·ks and ~3er·vi.ces, r..\nd I IAJould l:ike to make a few rE!ITtarks about that.

On<->. of l:he tlri.ngs IAJ<-:'l discussE!d in Public Works and Services was rental space · why il:: was rl<,~ c e s sa I" y to have a 11 thE! r· ~=! n 1":. i'll s p ;:1 c E~ IAJ e h r.1 IJ c~ -; n ~ t .

J o h n 1 s t"-:ight now lAihCo111 thE:1 put"pose of LhE~ l'l<c1W I:J Wi.l d ·i_ n q llli:~ !; i: 0 friO IH! d J.J go v r.:1 r 1'1 m <->. n t off :1 c (c1 s :i. n t o o n e a r· r.:1 i:1 . 1\]0IAJ, T go!-. c'Hl i.HlSIAJ('!r', bilL T i!!Tn no!-: hetppy IAri 'HI t· hE:1 · i:HI SIAJE:H', I t h:i n I< ·l·.hi'll.: ~:!i . l · :hnr· Lhl~l"H lAta~; dn C'!Y'r'or ITiflde :in pJann:i.ng that bu:i.JdJng, or· gOIJE!Y'nHHHll:. hdS 9l"Ol~lrl i:oo f:-dS 'I:, or HtE:'Y ar'Co! rnaj nta:in:i.ng depc..\rtrnents outs i.dE:! I.•JhE:!n 1:-.h('!r'o i.s no nE:!E'!d I··.o .

So there w:ill be rnore questions corning concernlng rental space. The o 1:: h c;! r· t h :i. n g T. am c on c lc~ r· n C:! d L.1906 May 13, 1988 VoJ XL. about on r·entaJ. space ls that I feel that there might be S OITIE! contravention of The Public qUE!StiOI1E!d <H' e s t. :i ll askE:1d on Tendering Act. We t h-i. s , b u t 1 t h i. n k t h (:1 r· e sorne questjons to be r· E:! n 1·: ,:·ll s p a c o . My ccHlCE!r'n about public t.:E!ndE!r:i.ng 'i.s tlAJOfold. In t. l·1c~ fir's+. place, . IAIB find that:. thE!rE! ar'E! (;!XCOpt.:Jons I: o T h H P 1 1 b l. i. c T F'! n t:l t'! , .. :i. n g A c t .

Ther·e at"E! over 500 govE:H'f'HrHHlL agl'!l'lC::'i.OS IAJh:i. c::h hi.'IVH to l"(;!pOY'i:: E~XC(:1ptions to ThE! Public TE~ndr::!r·-.ing A c; 1·: . T r (~ 0 l i: h C'! n C'! p .;~ I" 1·.: lfW n 1-: (I r Public Wor·l<s r.lnd ~)et"vj cco~s should b r0 d b 'I 0 l. 0 h i:•l IH! ~; 0 I r1 r-:! IIH:H: h cllri ~WI i 1'1 force whetneby aJ.J. those gOVE!Y'I'lrrlE!nt agnnc i C'!S, l.•th·i.ch c:'lt"c,~ S1.1pposed t.:o report exceptions to The Public T r:~ n rl r:H' t n g n c 1.: , lAd. 1 J. r· E'! F><H' t.: . A classic example that comes to rnind ·.is i'l IAtr··.i .

Lt(,~n qu<;!sL.·ion thi\lt IAidS put. to the Minister of Newfoundland and L. abr'i'\dOY' 1-!0LIS""i.ng COI'lC~'.I"n ·.inq the purchase of his car. The answer that carne back was yes, l:hey had ptu·chased r.~ car for hirn. It had been done by telephone; 1\J(~tAJfoundl . and and Labr;:,\dor· Hous-ing had phonE!d around to tiAIO or· thrE:!E! dE~dlc.;!rS, got pr·:i. cE~s of car's and thE!n decided to buy OnE! b<;!cause, i:·l s h c~ s ,.]"i_ cl, ·1·. h c.~ o I:Jw r· l· ·. t~ro d i. d not have the car in stock with the spor:ificdl":ions that he wanted. Th:is, tom~>., IAtould sE1E!ITI to br::! Lh<'!

IJ f'! r· y I)Ji'\ y T I•JO 11l. d p 11 r· c h i:·l s (;! a c i:'l r' , or any other member in this House, b11l: ·Li: I.•Jd!; nol : r·c~pcH'hH:I. ThE! impor·tan ·t. Uli.ng Js, I say tc) l ·.h~~ M·i.n·isl-.c'!r' of- l·lealt:h, Lhi:·\1~ this was never reported as an exceptJon to l:h~~ Publi .c T~HlrlfH' .. i.ng Ac 1:.. Tlri.s is where what js serious about it, 1:. h ;jJ t: i 1: ~~Ji:l ~; n c;! IJ r-:! t" r ~=! p or· 1:: r::! cl <.·\ s r.~ n exception and it CE!rtainly lAtas an excepLi.on.

The other l::hing that is happening now in publjc l. c,1 n d r::! r· ..-i. n g , a n d T s a IAJ i. 1:-. a g i'..l i n i. n No. 36 R1906

UH"! C::~xcepi: 'i.ons Hli s rnon l:h, is, for· sorue r'C"!i'..lson or other, OVE!r thE! l,c:\S 1: f~~~~~ trton I:: I'll>, IJt:H' i.o11s govC::!I"I'lnH"!nt: dE~pi:u-·tments have c:lr~c: · ·i.c:i''!r:l !:hat t.hr:!y .:~l~f:! go .. i.ng l.o lll>H

section 3 2 (

b) of the Public Tondc,H'i.ng Act-. to COIH~r· many <:·lnr:l ~; u n d I" y p lH' c h a s c,~ s . :r will just rec~d IAihat (

b) says. U: s f:l y s , 11 W hE:~ r E~ l:i'w E! s l i.Hit:-1 1: E:' d cos t of work or acquisition is equal to or lE~ss than ~r,:~o.ooo and i.t: appears to the head of the government funded body that in view of the nature of work or a c q 1ri. s i t oi. o n it i. s no t a d u ·i. s a b l. <-?. t o invite tE!nders ... 11 Now, that, to. me, sE:!elfts to be a u.1ay ;u·ound i.l·:. As I pointE!d out to thE! mirristE!r in t.:hE:~ Es ·l:.irna ·tE!S t.h·i.s, l·o frl(:~, seemed to be a way of contravening o r· g o t n g iH' o u n d t: h e P 1.1 b l 'i. c Tc-?.ndE!Y'ing Ac:t. BecausE!

I notJ ce ·in the excep~tons for the month of A p l"j J t. h (:' 1"(::~ IAIEH' e tiAJO mo I"(,' C: a Y' S p U Y' C: h r'l S C"! d f 0 Y' V i'll" 'i. 0 II S I n-i. 1'1 i , S 1-. EH' S 1.1.J:i'lhout go:ing thr·ough the Public TEHlc:ler· i.ng Ac 1· . . AN 1-101\J. MF.MA F R: Why are you picking on cars? MR. GlLRfRT: W h y T i'llll p ·i c !d n 9 o n c: "' r· s "i. s b <H c-:l u s e t l·w y h a v E:~ , u n t :i.l Ud. s l as t fE:!IAI tnonLhs, ,.,,l.w;:lys gone~ to publi . c Lender. Right now they do not and T f E~ e 1. t h e r (~ a r· ~:! s E:~ r i. o u s p r· o b 1.

E~ tn s there, Mt", Minister, and I have not r'Pce:iu"!d an ansiAier to l:.h(,~ questions I have put: to you, I fa·.i l. to s E'!C;! how you can jus L i. Fy using the

section of the Public Tencler·.ing Act I just: quote!C:I, 3 2 (b), as a rE!ason for· going around l:.he systc;!rn. T h a t , b d s t c r.1l. l. y , 1.o~1o ul. d b r~ cornnwnt.s on thE! DepartrnE!nt: Pub l. 'i. c Wo r· k s . T co ul. d q o on , unfol~tun<:lteJy 1 do nol: that 1'-. "i. lrw lc-?.Ft:. So I 1~.1011l.d r'l s k my of bu'l: much the;! 1..1907 May 13, 198B Vol XI... rrri. n oi. s 1·. C'!Y' i: o questions I ha'J o e1 asked l.ool< h:i.m at :in t. h (,~ thE:!

Fsl:i.rncti ·. r'"> Cormrri 1. 1 r'!l-'!, r:·lnd i hc,:n l::hr:~ ot.hE!Y' onE! concerning NE:!IAifoundlancl r:Hl d I.;:~ b I" iHI () r· H 0 II s ·i. 1'1 9 ' IMI'l':i, c h IAii:l s certainly an E!XCeption to the act r:-1nd ~~IdS noi ... r·r,:por·tod. 1 !AIOul.d <:~sl< h:irn to look :into this, because,~ it: 'i. S S I·'! I" 'i.

I) I I S 1:1 n d ·j_ '1: "i. ~:; S 0 In("! t. h ::i. n 9 that should certainJ.y l:w . a d d I" E! s s r:!lj , ~H~ c <HI s f'! 'i. t ~' (;! E'! 1n s l o ITI e a flood tide could start from th:is !> o r· t- of ,:, n o p c~ r· <:~ t .i. o n i. F ·i. t i s no t. controlled. I also feel that the minister should pu'f:: sorneHdng in ·For·CE! t.o ensure that all agencj.es ·wh:ich hi~vE~ to r·c~por·t. <"!xcc,~pt. · ·.i.ons l::o l:.he Public TendE!ring Act, thE! 54.8 of 1:-.hc;!lrl, rlo r·epor·t· ..

ThE:!r'E'! lfii.ISt.: bE! some sort of mechanism that he can p1.1+: ·i.n. 1\Jow, u ndr:! r· Tt"r:tns por· r.i:'l t·. i.o n i".h~'! I"O aJ''E'! many t.h:ings I cdn talk about. .r IAI 'i.l. 1. ·L n 1 1 r: h o n s om E! 1':. I'H'I 1-: t am concerned about. The first one j S : l i'l 1: h 0 b I I d 9 r,~ 1·: -1-.: h ~;! r• E:! IAJi'1 S I) 1'1 J. y $SO,OOO put in fol" local r·oads '.in co .~~ ~; i: d l. r: o 1 n 11111 n U·. "i. (~ s o n i·.·. h E:! ~3 o 1..1 1:'. h Coast and on the Labr·ador· Coast.

T n 111y 01~m f>i:H"I: 'i. r: 11l.i'H' d :i. s t:r·'i ct., i n McCallum, the minister has d cl1rl'i. 1: 1·. o d i: h ;:~ t h ·i. s d r,~ fhH' t Jrll;! n t. rli. d <.·l SlH'Vey lAJhich shOlAIE~d thi':d: at.. }E:'iH~t $'1.00,000 IAir:~s nr'!E~dl·:!d l::o pul:. i:l r·oad :in fit for a wheelbarrow to go on, so 1:: h ;:~ t-. 1:: hE:! y IAJO u l. d be i:·l b 1 e t: o t a k e oil to the school in a wheelbarrow 'i.nst:E:!i"d of hav'i.ng i·:.o t:al<c;! -Lt 'i.n two buckets as they have to do noiAI.

That .i.s a par·och:i.,1l concer'n, I guess, and anyone lAJilo l1as c o lflfrll.l n ·i. t ·i.e s 'i. n t h c,: ·i. r· d :i. s '1:: r· i c t s whJch arE! clasSE!d undEH' thJs local ser·u:i.ce, $'.)0,000 "i.s not·. E:!nough and there should be morE! monE!·Y put in +:hr,~r·e . Wh~~n you ·l:r.·lkE>. oin'l:.o consideration the fact that they COIIld f·i.nd $'78,000 , .. _o pi:~vo cl r·oad :i.n Round Pond and they only put $!)0,000 :i.n l:o do Lho~;e loci:·ll No. 3 6 R1907

c ommu rl"L t. i. <.;! s , wrong. thc~re l.S somet :.h'i.ng Now, in the broad area of Transporl:at.ion we sl:iH'hH.:I off t:hJs year by introdtJc:ing a prJ.vate rnernbc,~r·s 1 Y'E!Sol.u t.ton conc<.;!r'n i.ng +:.he,~ tE!rminat.ion of the CN serviCE! in N c,~ IAlf o u n d 1. C\ n d . T h :i. s 1. s s t ·i. l. l. a se1"ious concer·n of the Libc,~raJ. Opposition and of ctll Newfoundlanders, I would submit . What dr' rdngc.~rn(:!nl:. -i. s govc. ~ r·nlrlf'!l'lt goj ng to makE:~?

ThE:~y r.ldrni t thE!rc,~ ar·c;! ·nc.:!goi":.J di·.""i.ons ongo 'i. ng, l:llll ·. ~~~c.~ a r· E! a f I" r.d. d d E~ c :i. s :i o n s a r· e g o :i n g t o be-~ I"Tii)ldl'! For· pol-i.L··i . c:,~J. r·r:!i'ISOI'l!; J"at·hE~I" t ·han ra'l:.ionilll S(~nsib1e l"(~,:~SOI"lS f't'OHI l~lhich l.:he f>F:~ Opl . H Or NE~l•Jround1.and IAI".i.J.l bEHH'!fit. Our· contc,~nljon has bE~en t: hclt if CN 1. s g o 'i. n g 1.: o b c'! c: l. o s e- ~ d o u t , Uw r· e-:! s houJ.d not bo a lurnp s urn payrnE!n"L Hlclde c:'lS c~l f' "i. nal ch~ctl. . ThE~ liiOrH'!y that CN are now spending in Nt'!IAJfoundl.Hnd shot .1J.d sl·.

"i.ll bo coming in to ensure the m a :i n 1:: <"" n a n c c,~ o f t h .i. s t r· a n s p o I" t: ''' t "."i. o n system, other·wise, ge!nerations yet t~nbor·n ar·c~ not go"'i.ng to be ablE:~ to afford to pay for the trans porta t.: ""i.on Neu1foundland .

J. n Why I point this out is, the ""i. nFor·rna t: i.on T !Ala s ablt'! to f 'i. nd on the f8rr·y system in Newfoundland - thE~ i.ntr·~-prot;"i.ncE! f~:!r'r'y sysi· ·.E~Ifl Jn r·c,~Jat"ion to the onE! :i.n Bl":itish Co l. u m b i.i"~ , o n w h ·i. c h H1 H P r c.wil. c.H' g o 1:: up the other day and ~ ;a:idl "Oh, -Ln 11r·-Li:··i.sh Col.lllllb·."i.;:·l l :. hc.~r·r~ '~li.·1S no I"IIOI'It,~y pllt ".into thE! fE:H'I"Y ~;ys'I": C"!HI . T h ·i. s $B Hl 'i.l.l "i. o n 'i. s i'l l l. i: hi.~ 1-. gons ".i n to lAIC! t <-:! r t: I" an s poI" tat: ion J n flr· ·i 1-.""i.~ ; h Col.JIInb·i.d .

I,,Jn IAHH'::. uer·y lucky · to bE:~ able to got: thE:~ deal. lAIC~ d 1. d II . Mr·. Spc.;!r'l kf:! r· I l w""i. l. J. 1-:l->. J. l. r· E:~ a 1 s t o I" y . I n 1 9 7 7 • Col1.1rnb i.a s ""i. gnr::!d ;·Hl 1. 1908 May 13, 1988 YOII i".hf! Br·it.·. :Lsh a g r· ~ = ! E~ m (;! n 1·.: Vol XL IAJ her' e by l":l·w y IAHH' c,~ go "i. n g to t: a k E! $ B miJ.lion a YE!ar, peggE!d to t:lu~ consurnt~r· pr· :i. c<->. oi.ndt;!x -J.n Vancouvc::!r' I to go into the operation of the fE:H'Y'Y sysl . :<~ lfl -i.n Br·il: -i.t>h Colurnb :i.a. That is now $16.2 milJ.ion a year. Two y E!ar' s 1a ter, Mr.

Sp e aker' I t:. hE! 1\loiAlfoundl i:·lnd CovE:. r·nrrH:.nt. dE!C:i.dod they were go:i.ng to take over a syst0rn thctl:: wcts operat ed by the f ederal government. Now t he Hr·-i. l:."i. sh Coll.illlb :i.r.·l on(:. IAli:'tS oper·at:od by thE! prov:inCE!, and th:is money "1-. h.:-1 1:. IAid S going ··in IAJdS qn ·i.ng Lo be-:' a bonus to British Columbia bc ~ c.>ttiSe'! t hoy tAJt-:!l ' 'E ~ noi·:. ge t.L·ing anything before. But Two year '1.(~1 -. e'!r' ~.Jr : !l~lf"Otlndl.dnd s"i.gnud 1:-ll"l agreement whereby we were go i ng to · L;:~kc,~ ~>OliW"i":h 'i. ng OlJHr' i··.hc:-1-t-.

L•.l<:lS l::ul. l y funded by thE! fE!dEH'a1 governrnEHil .. a nd <.:Jl.ldr'r.lnl : PI ~ rl by i:: hP constJ.tutionl where it says t hey 1~1011ld pr•e)t;·idc.:! codsl ·.:dl. and ol.:her' marinE! ser·vi.ces, we took :it ovEH' and we dgr ee d t o a f "i. ve year agreE!ment, starting off IAd.t:h $1.2 rn .i.l.J. Jon wh i. c h ex p -i. r· c-?. d in 1. 9 a 4 d n d then was renewed on a one year bas -i.s to 1.91l5, and t.:hE:H~ on anothc~r one year basis to 1986.

It !Alas i"'.hc;!n up to $2 rrri.l.l.- .i.on "it IAidS pegged to the consumer pr i ce i ndex :i n S t . .T o h n 1 s f o r t.: I·H;! s e u Em y EHH' s J.t was in force and then :it rl i.s appe a red. Rut-. tho lit tle difference between British Col.l,llilb '"i.c::l, I.J.lh"i. ch i·.he Pr ' E~rn""i.er· d i d not point out, is thE! Bl"it: .ish Col.111r1bi. d monc:. y IS s l·.i.J.l go i ng up; thc,1r ' co~ !Alas not:h :ing go:ing :.i.n unt::i .1 "1. 9'7'7. The·:. 1\JnwfOJind-1 l·lnd rnonl'!Y I IAih:ich lAli'lS fuJ.]y fundE!d by l":.h E:! r ( ~ e"lc:! t' A. l. 9

I) l)(.'!r' n HI!'! I" I I· 1.1 p I I n -:-· . .i l l 9 '7 9 I IAli':lS CUt off in 1986, thEH'(;! lAid~> n o 1·. h ·i n g c: o rn i. n g . l f -1". h d l: h i'' d carl":i.E!d on, Lher·e IAJould b E:' ove1" $3 rn:i.ll. -i.on nOIAI corni .ng -L nl::o Newfoundland to help provide a f C:!I" r'y spr·u -i.co f"ol" 1\J(:!lAiFoundland. But it seem s that th e fed e ral g o t)('! r n 111 c;! n t. s :i. g n ('! d d d c.:! d l. IAri. t. h No. 36 Rl908 .... , ........ __

Br i.l:i .s h CoJ.urnb i.a and I: hey reached $16.2 million. 1~1hal:. t.hc,1y i'lr'O gotl::·i ng. MR. ~->PEAI<Ff~: hdtJe no1~1 That is The hon. rnernber·'s t:irnH has elapsed . MR. c:u BFRT: T n c () n c lu s i. 0 n ' H i" ·j I: i s h c 0 l_ I I HI b -j_ r'l i:H'E:! gwl--.t.·.ing $16.2 rntll ion and the f\lPIAJfoundlc.-lnd GotJHt'l'llnenl: i_s gH'I:i:·i .ng 110!-hjng. So it :is co!>t:ing the f\Jowfoundli:lnc:l l··.dxpr'll/(-?.t' $\0 mi.ll --i_on to operate a service right now l:.hat., up unti.l. 1.979, ·l·:hc·'! ft'!dl!:~t'r'll goVE:1rnrnEHit IJ.Jas operating, SOMf. HON. MEMBERS: Hc-?.ar, hE:1ar! t'JI~.

SPEAKER: ThE! hon. thE:1 rTIE!mber for Waterford - Kenrnount . MR. GUI ... LACE: ·~------·--·-- MI". Spc-?.aker, during UlE! Consurn~;:1r Af · F~ i.t'S . es l:i. rna i·.:E!S, T. rnarlr,1 connm~nh; concerning the oiJ. industry, in pal"l·.i . cl .lli.'lr' !)~?.r·vi.cc.~ sl~i'll.lons etnd the hornE:1 deli very of o:i J, and the fHci--.

HH'lt l.:hc,1 rnat'k(?.l·:placr~ sr,H?.IIICH:I t.o bc,1 such that pr·ices werE:1 p1ne:1t:.t.y •~JC,1 ll fi. xr~d i.n l:h~-:1 rnar•kr?.i·:pl ;'tee, p t-1 r '1: j c ~~ l a r 1 y by arE! a , i'.l n d t: h r.1. t: Ill h o 1: her· by co ll. 1.1 s --i. on o t' no 1-. , supposE:HHy cornpc,1t.ing o-:l.J companJ.es h;::u:l s i.uri.l. •H' pr··i c ~~ s -; n d g -i.IH! n Jocat:ion, and rny questions wer·c,, IAI h t;! 1: h ~;!I" 1: h j_ S lAid S S 0 fll C.;! J- h -j_ l'l g government: should tolerate, with ~: he:~ only c: o 1 n p c-?. +·. i. t.

L o n i . n t·. he rna1nket.pJ acE! r·eaJ.ly beJng by IAJay of g-i.Hun-i.cks and g-.iVt:!BIAJays; and HH'! fact that: we now have Come by C h a n c c,~ p r· o d u c-l n g p r· o d u c 1:: s f o r t.: h c,1 marketplace, whether this would, in facl:., rnakc,~ a d'iffc-?.r'encE~ l:o l::hc,~ ~ompetitive nature of ojl delivery, whether it be gasoline to the service stations or fuel o i.l l~o hornE'! s? I note-?. noiAJ ·1--.hat t~H~ do hatH!, "i.n I. 1909 May 1.3, 1988 Vol XI..

F i'l c: l: , Co HI 1-:1 H y C ~HHl c ~~ p r· o d 11 c t s available on the Newfoundland rrti:l r· k H l: '~' n c:l I t~J<)nd 1:• r· tuh e ·1-. h ,,,, r· L h C.'!~ r'l IAli 11 be clvaiJ abJ.e to aJ.l oil t: Otllfl •:·\l'l'.i. I'!!) r· ''' i·: h r,H' -1: h r!ll'l j 1.1 s -1.: to <'\ se:1Ject f:irrn. WH do not seC:Hn to h i'\ll H t' 8 C () ·i.l.J (?. d d l'l l/ d n S IAH:! I" S 0 n that. I r·c,1aJ. i ZE:1 t: hat. thE! OIAJI'l E'!

I" s nf Cr:llnr~ ily Chi:HH:r?. dr'f'! fi"OC'! +:.o rnar·ket t.he-.ir· pr·oduct r.lS t:.hE!Y IAJ:ish, . but g-iiJrHJ l : hc,~ s .i . l~ui'li·. · i.on .:~1:·. l::hP time, where a government: asset was !-: r· d ns f f'! t ' r' E:! d o v H I" o I" s o l d t: o a private finn, I IAJould haVE! thought p<'lr·t·. of 1:-.hf~ 1nanddi".E?. of l:c:\k ·i.ng Lhat·. over would be that: they would s u p p l. y t: h ~! p r· o d IJ c 1:: t: o t: h e Newfoundland market on an equal basi.s, l:.o all o :i.l. cornpan:i<'!S, to allow frE!e cornpe!t:ition :in t:hc'! lflarb~t.place.

I l.o~Jond<:1r IAJhE~l:. hE!Jn t h a t: lAd ] 1, i n f a c t , b E! t: h E! c a s e , or· IALi.l.l t::hc;!l/ 1--.r·y l::o mar·I<E!I:. l::hE!:ir product ultimately through ono 9 r• 0 I I p () f S E>. Y' V i_ C !·?. S t·. d t ·i_ 0 n S IAJ h -:i. C h they rnight: consider acquiring. The other area in the Consumer Aff<'l·i . t' s DE~ pr:·l r• I:HI1·?.111·: I ~ h a 1·.: I expressed concern about was the i.nc t'H<.~ sod F:H:!S 1-.hr:~ -1: I~JfH'C,~ :i. n c l.1.1d (;!d :i.n the budge:1t for vehj c1es, b:i 1nth r;c,1r'i~'i. f · i . c~l : t:~s, l:hH rHg-i.SI ":r·y and, "i. n particular, increased fees for holl!;·i .ng.

Thc.?. t'E:!g ·i. s l·.c?.l"-i.ng of rnortgagE?.S, as an c;!xarnplE~, ccHJS(;!s gr·r.~i'll: d:i.ff"i_cii"J.i ·.y fOI" l'lr-:!IAJ hOIJ'Il;! buyE:1rs, indeed for alJ hornE! buyc;! t"S b11t ·Ln p;u·t: ·i_c:ul .;u· ne1~1 houw buy<,H'S, who art'! purchasing their first pI" o p or· t·.y u n i:\l.o~Ja r· r-~ 1:. hat c;! v (;! n 1:. h o 1..19 h thE!Y l'lE!gOt:i.atE! f:l rnort_gcl.gE!, bE!fOt'E! 1·: h (~ 'i. r· p r· () p l"! r t. y ·i. s s (~ 1:: t: l. ~~ d ' b ('! r 0 r· e the transaction is final, another shocker' l.o~J'i.ll corne l·:o t:hetn "i.n the addition of up t:o $1000 of E!Xtra foes wh i ch are strictly fees levied by the goVE!rnrnE!n t:, part of l:he l:ransact.i .on, of cour·se, l.E:wied before the saJ.e is cornplet:e.

I do n 0 1: I< n OIAI !AI h l/ IAJ('! C 0 1'1 ·1·: .-i. rl 1.1 (;! t. 0 increase fees of all sorts when in fac:l·. 1~10 should nol: be;! us ·<i.ng f(:!E'!S, No. 36 R1909

IAJ ~H:1 L h c"! r i . i:: b (:1 f f~ E! s f o r regjstration of property or fees F o r· v c,1 h oi. c 1 c,1 s , o r· a n y o 1·: h E! r· s o r· t , licenses and so on. When t~ll IAJe should be doing is try i ng to cover off administration costs, it a p p ~1 a r· s that i).JE~ a r· (:1 rna k ·i. n g rno n c,1 y on these particular· arE!aS, monE!Y, ( s u p p o s l;! , t h a t :i. s s p c,~ n t. -L n o t: h e r· ar·eas of govE:!rnrnent.

But I IAJould hopE~ L h a t t. h c;! man cl a 1: E~ of Co n s urn C'! r Affairs is simply to increase fees o n l. y IAJ h C~! n "i. t "i. s n c,1 c c:1 s s a r· y t o b a 1 iHl c E:1 of F co s t s i n t hat df:~piH' l:HH'!n L. '( Hid d f~ c OffliJH:! n h; c CHll: fH' n i. n g ·UH:! r·~::Ha:i.l sa] E~s tax, the fr-.1c1 that I.VC:~ h a

I) C:1 ' n f~ IHll. n s s 1·.o s c'l y ' I: l·w h ·i. g l·w s L tr..1X ·.in Canada, 12 pc:H' cent:., lind I~JhHi'.:hf;!r' i:·.ho 90IJC'!Y'r1HIHI'li: I~J!)Iild cons:1dc:11" Ol" had, :in fact, don~::~ any Si:ud·i .OS ~;hC)I)/"i , ng l:hc~ ·i.l'flpdCI: of' l"ndudng thd~ t:.ax d01.~1n to 8 pE~In cc.:!n 1:, l·:.hf:!

Canc:,1cl"i.c1n dlJHi"d9C'!, dnd 1.vhE:~th~::H' fi"E!P:ing up thoSE! clol1ar·s Fo1n , .. _ho consUIIH~l" l:o SfH~nd Jn ol':l·wr· areas, m:1ght mean a stimulus to l".hE~ C:!COnorny and l.o bus·i_nnl>S, i·.ht~ retail sector and all sorts of busi.rH:~SS, SO that r'BCOVCH'Y of t·.hc-?. doJlar·s nor·mally collected by 1.vay of the extra ~ per cent could still flow into the government revenues, b11-t. E!VCHl mor·eso, by IAJi)\Y of a stimulation of the economy with the reduction down to the Canadian average of 8 per cent.

It might be considered a daring moue,~ on thE:~ par·t. oF gouc-?.rnrnt::~nl: to fllai<E! l:hat r·educt:ion dOIAII'l to the Canad i.c:~n dVC'!r'dgf:!, bul: l ... hr,1 gou(:~rnrnnni. has r'ei'llly g:i.vE:Hl no ewi.d~:!-l'lCt~ '1".1'11:1 t:: i.-1 s l".:i.nn.ll.d t:·i on l:o l:.hr-~ ~~ c on o rny by l.ll r.l.Y of t h c,~ r' c,~ d u c ·U on C:OIIl.d, J.n fd1:i:, b(~ lfiOY'C'! bHnc:!f·i_c;-i_Rl. t h r.HI ] e a vi. n g a J 2 p ~~ r cent ·t: ax j n plc·1CC:1 IAih·ich l'lOIAI 'i.~; d COIIIfl-11'!'1:1-'! d:-i ~~:i ncc,~nt:i.uc,~ to thE:~ c,H:onomy, a d ·i.si.ncnnl:i .vE'! ·l·:o b11s · i . nn~;~;, ·in p a I" t :i c u 1 i:l r· t h c;! r· E:~ t. a :i l s ~~ c t. o r , I)Jh l'!

Y' (~ IAif~ h H <,11" S 1': 0 t' -j. E'! ~) Of l'fiO t' r:! 61 rl d 1...1910 May 13, 1988 VoJ XL HICH' (,1 p fW p l. H p 1.1 Y' C: h i:i1 S "i. n g of the Province, taking goods ou L advantagE! of lower sdl.es taxes . T 1:·. can hardly be considerE!d a stimulation i·:o our· E!COnomy tAJhc-:'!n pc-:lople purchasing elsewhere.

So :it is a seJf-dE,fE!at:i.ng 12 pE!r' Cl:,nt l:dx and I IAJould l:l.I<E! to sE•E! government provide so~e evidence . t-. he~ t a r· c.:! duct. ·i. on IAIO u l d no 1·.: b C'! rno r' e benE!ficial to the Prov:i ncE! and t:o 1:: h f~ . o c o n o I'll y 1·: h a n c o n t :i. n 1.1 i. n g t. o hurt both the bus:inE!SS SE!Ctor and 1·: h f'! I" f'! 1-. ;·~ "i. 1. S f~ C 1 ... 0 t' , 1:: h Co~ f;! 1'1 t:. "i. I" t! gamut of the business community, d n c:l h 1 1 r· 1: ·i. n g , o F c o 1 1 r' s ''' , lJlt:imatE:~Jy, the consumE!r.

In the area of I: hat-. gotH:H'l'llllf'!l'l t--. paSS d OIAJI'l ITIIII'l'i . ci.pi'll :i,-1~ 'i.I'!S -· housing I noted h,·_:t!> noi)J ciHc "i.d~:!d Lo c 0 ~, I. s t:. 0 t h ('' SOME HON. MEMAFRS : Oh, oh! MR. GUL.LAGE: Mr·. :3pc.~ai<EH', i.f T m"i.ght. ~H~ i~1l . l.oiAJed to continue. GouE:1rnmE!nt has ded.dE!d to pass d OI)Jn E:W c-?.rl mo r· e costs l·: o l:: he municipalities.

Normally used to d 75/25 sharing arrangement betweE!n the federal and provinc:i .a1 governments For non-profit housing, as an example, you IAJou1d hope ~hat the 25 per cent provincial share '"'ouJ.d not be pc'ISSf~d doiAin :i.n S01n('! fOI"irl t:o the municipalities.

But as we have SCo'f'!l'l 'i.n Oi::hcc!t' ar'E~d~; of' <.:JOVC"!Y'I'llfiE'!l'll-:, the j u n :i or 1 E! v E! 1 , IAJh e thE:! r· :i t: be 1nurdci .pt'll. ·i.n Hlt:' c:dse of provinc:ial below the federal l. r,11J H l. , s ,.,!C'!TIIC"! d 1: o I:) 1:! 1·. a k .. ;_ n g d n c,~ ~~ l:! r· incr·easing bUi"dE:Hl, etnd the fur' t.:hE!In do1~1n yo11 <H'H on Ute,~ !> cc:·1l.(:! LhC'! h:l.gher the burden you take. A r· C~! IAJB , 1-:.hH 1: I)JH No. 36 as a gover·nmE!nt, dc,1coi.d::ing t)/ i. l. l. p d s ~; rl Cll~l n c:~ ll c o s 1·: s , R1910

wherever possible, municipalities? It sc:~l~rns ·t:hat. '~lr.\Y Fr·o1r1 my non .... prof:it housing, rnu n i. r; "i. pal. i. 1.: ·i. f~ s a r· o be 'i. n g :.hal"~1 :ln th~1 nor·rnaJ 25 ·to !:.he certa:inJy (:1 X ('llllp l. r.;l

C) f 11.1here 8skod i:o per cent co~;i: 1-.o go'Jf:!t'l'lllll:1n ·l·, '/'J pt:11" coni ·. b~~j 1'19 the f l'1ciEH'a] COSt , Why IAIOU] d i · : h(~y pdss Hldi'. dol~ll'l l·o .:~ j1.1r1'Lot' l.t:!~le] of goVC·H'I'HIIEHl!:. j n lillll'l'i.c'i.pdl·i l. · i . r·~s l:h6tl: can c:r.~r·l : d i.nly ·j 11 affOI'·d t.o take on those costs, C:!~;pr'!Cidll . y 1~JI·wn you look d 'l: l:ht:! nurnbc·H'S of rmudc:ipal:it::it1S :in th:is Pr·ov·i .nc:(:!, i.Hld hr~dVlHl knOIAIS I~H~ h.:-ttH~ probably more :incorporated gotJr.H'I'lHll:Hll.: f><-:lr cap·i , l::a r. dill SUI"t:1 1~1e do than any ot hE! r a rE!a · of Can;;,da And l.:he goVE!t'nlnc,1nl:: has nOIAI mandated that a] 1 of l:hese corrHTHHLi tic~s, no rna l::tc:H' how slflal.l., be self-supporting by way of p r· o p EH' t y t. a x .

T h ~:~ b u r· cl e n o n UH:1 Provincial government of Sl.lpporl:. ·i.ng COITITTIUtl'i. ·t.i.E:!S, as i.l·. dJd :i.n the past, by way of 1..11ater and s ~:!IAI<-:l r· s E?. r· vi. c e s r:l nd o ·1·: h c~ r· servicing, infrastructure, is b<:1 .i.ng 1-.aken mot'E~ and IIIOY'e cj\IJ.I~lY from the Pr·ovinCE! and passed down to ct jLirl"i.or· levr.d of governHir:Hll· ..

Know:i.ng l::h.:-~t govEH'niiHHll: is r.Jo·i.ng that, to continue'! to do it in tht1 ar•t,~·:·l of ho11s i.ng on I".OP of ·l·.h(~ !;~~r·v:i c'.i ng pr·obJ c-:1rn t:.hey a] r•c,1ady h.:·ltJ(;!, i:o pr·ovtd(·~ Hd~~qudi':H sHr·t; ·i.l;Hs t·o t:he cornnlllnit:ic-:~s they tr·y to <JOlJ(·:!l"l'l, St'~(:~lll$ ·l:o ITit;~ , Mr·. ::)fll~i.·lf<lcH', to bt~ !:orally wr·ong. And I IAIOul.cl hopt~ i".l'h'li·: "i. l: ·i.s not i.nh~nrl(~d to l:w the policy of government to follow 1: h .i s 1:. h r· o 1 1 g h -i. n l: h t'!

F u t 1 II" n b y 1~1<:1 y of other cost increases to the murri.cipaJ."i.t·i.~:~s, have seen in this mo r· ~:! ~; o than IAI('l curr·ent budget. The government announced a Newfoundland Stock Savi.ngs Plan. My final comment would be that I I.L.IOI.Il.d hopo that: l::h i.S IAIOUl.d 1:)(! an exampl.e of hoiJJ goVE!rnrnE~nt can gE!t -i.nuol.vc,1d i.n hc;!l.p ·i.ng con~;LII'riC:1r's I 1911 May 13, 1988 Vol XL. part:i.ci.pi.'ll~e "i.n govc~rnmc"!nt, investing in their own Province.

And 1: I~IOi . lld hop•~ l - h•~ dol.lar·s derived by way of publ:ic subscr·i.p+:·i.on l:o l.:h·i.s l".ax·-Ct'E!d -LI:. pr·ogramme, when it is finally put ·i.n pl.<:lt:l:!, IAri.l.l SH(~ <.~ sl:'.'i.rnul.at ... i.on 'in bus:i.nE!SS, and a 1ot of Lho bll~:~"i.l'lt:!S~;(:!S bt~i . ng Cdr'tJf~d 01,11:: nOIAI by ACOA and not perrnitl:.ed l::o lakP p i:ll" '1'. , ~~ti. l.l. b (:! a l.l. OIAHH:I 1'. o par·Ucipate, and I SFH'H~I< of l :. hE~ r·:~i· J·d . l :;f~ci·nr· •·lnd irldl'lLIF'c:1ctur· ·i. ng s e c t o r s , :i n p a r· l: :i c u 1 cl r , IAI h 'i c h a I" ('! n 0 'i'. d 1. 1 OI~HHI 1'. 0 p c:U' U.

C"i, p a i::r;! 'i. n ACOA, and that, in fact, the gotJt:H ' rllil~.>rll.: ;~;i.'l.l. havP a broad enough mandate that the 1\J ~:!I.,.Jf o u n d l. and S 'i': o c k s ~> i.'l v ·i. n g Pl. an will be available to all c o n s u me r s , a n d t h a t·. b u s '.1. rw s s c,~ s that are allowed to participate and tal<e advantage oF l::hese dollars and the investment !::hat IAI"i :J.l bt:~ put.: ·i. l'li:O l ... hr,!:i.l" COITipC.~ nj. ('!

S wiJ.l have a broad E!nough spEH~trulll 1':. h '-'' t t h E~ y r· c~ p r· <-?. s E?. n ·1: a l. l. a r· I:'! a s o F the economy and not just a Cl)rlfi.l'll:1d dnd dHFi.nE:!d dY'E:!d, as IAIE! seem to see with ACOA and the r'Hsul.L'i.ng c:olflpl.t:·1'i.rll'.s of : Why can my business not: participate? Why can my f ·i.r·m nol: pi:tr'i· ."i.c:i.pdl :.e ? Why can I not dra1JJ doJ.lars doiAirl fr·om ()COA 1: o (·~Hlp 1. o y FHW pl. n i. n ITIY industry versus a narrow number "i . ndLISIT'iH~; · l·hc~11'. ~)I'!Hfll ·i"O br'! acceptable to ACOA .

I L.llould cornm~~nd thE! gOVf!lnnrnr::!nt: fo1" l:hP 1\Jc·~l!lfOIIndl,,lnd !'31·.ock Si!iv'i.ngs Plan and Venture Capital Tax Cl''!::!(h 1'. Pr·or::Jt'i!lifll'flH, bul:: IAIOIJl.d lib:! to see it properly implemented and bE~COIII1:1 c:Hl !::!XaHipl (:1 I pel"haps I l:'.o the way government can help the economy be sti.rnul.ated by way of E.HlCOIJragE!m(:1nt. across thE! E!nt:i.r'E! ~; p e c t r· u m of b u s i n ~:! s ~; a n d no i: confined as ACOA seerns to be. Mr. Speaker, CCHrllfll:1nt.S. l No. 36 thOSE! IAJ:iJ.] bE• biOI.Ild hopE'! l::hc:tt, my ·oJ. n R J 9 11

f 1 1 t u r c,1 s e !> s ""i. on s of I: h c~ H o 11 s e , i'l J.ot. of the que:1st]ons I , put to the ltd rd S 1··. ~H' S "i,l'l'J 0 l. IH! d 1.11 i l.l. b ~~ subsequently answered and that f u t u r c.;! b u d g c-~ 1·: s 1o~d. l. l. ad d I" ~'! s l> s om C.;! of t. h e s e c o n c e r· n s , p a r t i c u 1 a r· 1 y i n ar·c,1as whc,1t'P T Sf~f::! the;! consuJnf:!r' bear·ing an ever· incr•t::1asing burdE!n for· gover·nrnent expenses, f~xpc,HJSC.;!S which are normally considered as sc~r·vtcc,1s and should nol:. bc,1 used dS revenue. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKFR: The hon. the Mtnis~er of Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. MR. PEACH: T. u n d p r s i:r'tl'l d )() y c 0 11. e r:~ g II (,1 I 1'. h ( ~ M:lnistE~r of Consume:1r Affa·:.ir·s c1.nd Couunun-i . c:a l·. ·i ons, I~IHn · l·.ec:l i·:o corrnnen l': on somE:! of !.hosE '!.

If I could just: I: "' k f~ a c o u pl. r'! o f w-i. n 1 1 1·: c,1 !) , r. 1~1 <'1 n 1: 'h.l i-HI~;IJ.IEH' d coupJe:1 of quE~st:::ions 1: h H 1110 1ni:H'! r· For· l .. ~r.l 1:::! r· For· d KEHiniOUITl· posE~d as :it Y'C:11atE>.s to UH,1 non ·Pt'of i.l·: ho11s i.ng pr·ogr ' <:-llmiiH IIJ h :i c h has , T g lH1 s s , c au s C:H~ s ornE! pr·obl C-:llflS '~Ji . t.h Uw •.H'I"iH19f~lnfH1-I: lo~li'! have at NLHC and U1e d .ty. Just as a mi'.lt:ter· of note, this past IAJC:1C,1k l liiE!t IAJil:.h l.:hC.;! IJ~;!pl.ll : y Mayor, who is on the!

Housing Co mrrl"i. i:: t C-:l c,1 , and d L s c 1.1 s s E:1 d l: h i. s plnoblE!m fur·ther. I just want to p o 'l. n t o u t , fJ! r· . S p e a k E! r· , 1-. h '" t I.~H:'! are following this up, and the 0C:1fli.JI~y Mayor, Mr·s. Duff, i'o\gr'eE:!d that she and her staff at City Ha l.l. l~oJou ld fo ll.otAJ i. t up dS IAJC,ll.l. t:o get: some clarification on other j ur·tsd'i.ct. i.ons. But, Mr·. Sp!::'akc,H', ju~;-t-: to colnHwnt., i. n Apr· ·J J of 1 as t year the Cor·por•r:·11·."i.<)l'l 1 s Romr·d of D"i.r·c,1c·l .. or·s r~tified a policy jn which we d f:! s .i. g n r'1 I: (,1 cl rn I I n :i. c .. ,, pal i.

I: ·i. f;! s I~J h 0 IAicJ.l'lt"od to t.r.d<E:l pal"t Jn tl·w non -·fll"of ·i 1·: hous ·i nq pr•ogt'dl'lml<:! l:hr:·lL I Alii !; S ]. 9 1'1 (:! d :J n thE! g ) 0 b f.l] d 9 r· fH:'!Hif'!l'l L I d n c:l ·i. r 1'111.1 rri c i. p i~1l .' i. 1: ·j f~ !; I 1 912 May 13, 1988 Vol. XL I)Ji.'\ n 1:c,1 d l o I:H~ c OHIH cl J. r· E:'! c 1': l. y involved, they would cost share our· ?. 5 p c,H·· c <·Hl t . An cl l g lH! s s there are probably a number of I'' 0 a $ () n s r 0 r· ·"t l: I r· (,1 d l. :i. z ·i. n g I 0 f course, that St.

John 1 s :ls <'.l l. .it. '1-:.1 <~ d ·i. ff f:! r· f::! n 1:., h ot~JC'! v <~ r·, I lJ.JO uld have to admit. I am sure that there are not uery many mun:i.cipaJ.ities which couJ.d bocoHJE!. invol.vE:!d, ol'.hc->.r' f.·.h;:ln Sl: . . John 1 s, Mount Pearl and probably Corner Br·oo·k, ;:1nd Tarn not sur'E'! of the extE!nt of what IJ.Jould happE!n if l.o~Jr::• thr•<,11AJ l.: h·J.s opE:!n, f1··ec;! for· c.lll, to all municjpalities in the Pr•o1ri.ncc,1. T dirt sur·n l·: he M·i.rd.s I::E!r' of Municipal Affairs would p r· o b c:1 b l. y h r:-1 v f;! P IJ C.;! r• y <HIE~ k no c k .i. n g on h:i.s door, br::!C:ause thE!

Hlll n 'i. <: 'i. p r:•1l. 'i. L ·i. <·:! S IAJO Ill d h <:'l ~~ ('! 1': 0 g ('! 1··. approval to borrow to take

part in a p;··ogr · <·llfllrl< :~ l ·i.ku Uv1l: , I)JI ' lf'!l''~:!i'lS St. John 1 s :i.s cl ]oit.t:.1E:1 un:ique in I: h r:1 1: I: h 0 y h ;:-l

I) H H c 0 n c f'! !'' n I <:'1 l'l d T think they should. As a matter of fact, T l:h ·i. nk i:hn c ·i.i .y of ~'it. John 1 s does haVE! an ::impoi"Lant !"01E! 1: o p 1. ''' y -i. n h o wd. n g . T l·w y 1·1 i:il v E! demonstrated that over· thE! YE!ai"S, and r th·ink l ·.h~:!y n~'!(!cl 1-.o bc,1 commended for it. But I think t. h n y s h o ul. d , .. f~ a ll. y ·c o n l: i. n u t-:l t. o participate in this onE! particu1ar· p r· o g r arnrnc,l . I t: h :i. n k ·1-. h e p r· o b 1. r:Hn 1::1·1 (.;! m r:w1 b E! r· 1·1 a s is, why should the City of St.

John's havE~ t:.o Lakr:~ par·t: in 12.5 per cent sharing of th]s non-·proFi.t hous .i.ng . T·F IAJe J.ook at 1986 -- 1987 and pr•:ior to t:h<:lt, :in that

part i cular year we had tt..~.Je n ty-- six n E!IAJ N f:'IAlf o u nd 1 and .:md Ldbr·<:ldO!" Ho1.1s "ing Cor·por·at :i.on 1.1n:i l:.s allocated to the City. NLHC s h;u·r.~d IAJ"i.i·.h CMIK 100 pHI" ClHl t·. of· tha l:; thE:' c:i ty put no fundj ng j n to ·J. I: . Pr· ·i.or· l:o l:hi'·l 1: , CI'-1HC foot:r,!d ·thE! bJ.11. In 1987 1.988 IAJf:' d p f>r' ()

I) C~ d <'Hld d l.l 0 C: r:l 1: r:• c1 I'.IAJ(;! 1'1 1·: y ·-S 'i. X un::its to t .h(;! c::i.ty, and t.hesE '! a!"E! 1·. h C'! on 1 y t,ln ·i. i·. ~; c: o ~; 1: :; h a r· f'! d by 1·: h n No. 36 Rl912

ci.ty, OlJrseJ.ves and the reds. So they are paying 12. S pe'r cent, we iH'E:1 pay':i.ng 12.5 per· cent and i':h~>. feds are paying their 7S per cent. Now 1.988 1.989 aJ.l.ocal.:.i.on i.s thE:1r~~- We have-:~ not agr·c,~ed on t h r:l I~ I i:l n cl h 0 p c;! r 1.11.1. y 1.: h (,1 D ~>, p l.l l·.y M a y o I" , rn y s e 1 f , a n d IAJ h o e v c,~ I" e J s e , I g Ll ~>, S S () f r i, c:i, 1:11 S -j_ I'J c i. t y c

I) I .II') d . l. I w'.iJJ be abJe to come up with a r• ~:! S

I) l,iJ 1>. i:

I) t h d 1'. 0 I) 1:' t' -1'·. h !·>. n t>, X 1: ~; h o I" t: tAl h '.i J ~>. . s :i n c ,,, :1 9 a 6 • I s 1.1 p pI) s 0 I IAIH h"' l) 1>. p II 1'. l 'I 0 s () c ·i."' t hous'.ing unH:s, :infills, r·E:~ntal s '' p p l 1>.11H:Hl t· '' , 'i. n 1.1-w C ·i 1'. y oF ~H . . John's c.d. no cost to the rnu n "i. c 'i. p '''1. ·i 1: y . Jusl ... as d f'i.naJ. COirlliH>.nl·:, 1~1i.thout t a ld n g u p the t J me of the H o tJ s E! , Mr.

Speal(( ·H', T. kno1.1.1 t:he rnelflber· "is very much concerned with the h o u s ·.i. n g n ~'' c,1 d s of t h ~>. c i. t y , and tAil'lEHl 1.1.1e cons:i.der the popu1at:ion of 1:. he c J t: y , 'l: h c.;, r· C'' w"i.ll. c!l l1~1a y s be a grea ·t demand. I thtnk j t is probably a reason why we as a corporation should be involved in hous-ing; T. do not knOIAI t•.Jhat. IAiould happen if we were not there. I fear to 1-.h.i.nk what rn:i.ght hdppE!I'l 1-.o r·ental rates. It is probably our s c.;, - ~ 1·: i. n g o f r· cl L ~~ s L h a 1:·. h i~l s stab::i J :izc.;,d I': he rental mar·ket in ~)1:. John'~;.

Also, oF C OIIt''S1:1, I~JI~ ht.~tH~ A l ,;:·lnd bank cu~ouncl the,~ Cowc-ln Hc·dght.s ar·r>.r:-~, in pdr· ·t:'i.CIIl .r:·\r'. T(' 1111~ had not don~:, thr.~t, T i'HTI su1ne many d f>. VI'! l.o pI'! r• L\ IAJO 1.11 d h i:ll) C'! · S pI~ C Ill i~ 1·: f~ d ;~nd gobbJ ~='d j t up and so] d ·.it at. e X or· b -J. 1. i:t n 1'. r· ~~ ·i·: 1,~ s . So 1~11>. p r· obi:\ b l.y hr..1V~~ ~w]p~~d t o stabl:ize it. Just as f..t rnat:Ler· of '.i.nter·est, the Pr·ov i.ncc,1 of Pr·"i.ncc;, Edt.AiiH'd Island are not involved. The Province of Al.bf~r·t.a ar·c,1 i.nvol.VE!d, y~:,s, i.n l::he cost-sharing arrangement.

They dl"c,~ ·i.nvolv~=,cf .in l::h~:, cost. .. -sh<:lr·J.ng arrangemE!nt on opE,rating losses. Ll913 May 1. 3 , l 9 H 8 Vol. XL So f o r· s e n -i. o r· s t h E:1 y .a r· c;! o n 7 0 I 3 0 , for families they are on 70/30. So r· '"' a 1. l. y IAI e i'l t' c,1 -i. n 1.: h c"1 3 0 1:. o 1 0 pr:H' cent range, which arc'' thE! F'i.gt1r·~~s l ·: h~:' Pl"ov'i.ncE:! of Albr:,r ·ta h i':1 s g i. v (;

H) t 0 u s . Th1::~ PI"OIJ·i.ncc:! of Qtlf>.bnc :is in~1ol.~J~:!cl rls a 1'. he>. r'l'! flnorn rnun:i c.ipaJ contl":i buto1n. Now, l ·; l 0 p f'! I" c (·:! n 1". c o s t. .. s h d r· E! d . any rnun'.i.cipal:ity on Lhe o fH:H' i:1 1: ·i. n g los s 1·:! s "i. n i·hr:, PI"OV i.r1ce of Qur:1bE:1c. That '.is i".Uld l·:o II~) by 01.11'' contacted of.fi c ial s IAI h d 1·.: h f.l S b C:i! ~i! l'l ofr:'i .c·i.i':lls 1.~1h1) :i.n thai:: city.

Jus i". r.~ '' ;:,1 I flo:\ 1: l·. c,1 r· of' i. n 1·. u r· ~'' ~; ·1-. , 1987 the percentage breakdown Quel:lf'!C I.Aid!) 1·:1-lfi! f~;!dS pd i d 62 cent, the prov'.i.nce paid 28 c~~nl: and t.h<,1 ntun:i.c .. i.pal.il:.i.f''S 10 per ce,nt. i.n in p<->.r' p~;! I" pai.d In Nova Scotia, yes, they have S :i. X 1:: y ... S l X rn U n "i. C . i. p a 1. i. 1·.·. "i. C;! S lA I h i C h share in the operating loss. Now, obv"i.ousl.y they have probably had the same problem and thE! question J.s, IAI~H~t do you do "i. f 1)01.1 t:hr'OIAI it open?

So, obviously, they have d ~>. s i. g n a 1 ... ~~ d c (;! r· 1:·."' ·i. n 1nu n :i. c ·i. p a 1. .. i. 1·: ·:.i. c,1 s which can take

part in the no n -p r·o f i. t. h o u s :i. n g p r· o g r· i\1 rrn n e . 1\lf:!IAI fl r· u n s 1~d r: k , n o , Fl r· i t. ·.'i. s h Columb:ia, no. But I think LJ.Je should nol~{>. ·l:hi:l ·l: 'in l ... h~:' Pr·ovtncr;, of Rri'l:jsh Columbia Lhe City of lJ "' n c o ' 1 IJ o r· d o ~~ :; 1.: ,,., I< e p i.'l r· ·:·: i n t h fi! non-pr·oF:it: hous·.i ng progr'c1rnrn~=! unclE! I" 1: h i. :; gl.o b r:ll. i~l g I" n (;!If((-:! l'l 1·: .. Sd s I< at c h ewa n, yes . In 1 9 8 6 , t. hE!

Y'l'~ I~H'' t'l~ l:1~1e n l'.y .. f ·i 1.1 c>. . lfllll'l"i . r: -L pd l ·i. t. ·i ~ '' s which agreed to cost-share up Lo 5 p ,.,, r·. c (.>, n i: () r 1:. he in i ·1: ·i. d J c () s r. 0 f capita]. construction. The Yukon, no . ·1· h f>. y d t" c;! co v f'! I"~>. d 1.1 n d ~?. r· l~ h ~~ Native People's Agreement. Mani.l".obi'l, no. rh~~Y do nol: cost share. The North West T c,1 r· r· 'i. t o r· "i. o s , n o . A n d ·i. n t h e r· i c h Province of Ontario, the 1 n u wi c-i. p 1:1 J. i. 1·: -L c;, s do not s h a r· e . 1\.lo. :~6 Rl91.3

I j u r. t· IAJCHI t: to p o j n t out , M r . Sp(~ .~kr:H' I l:l'1••1t ~ ~ ~1(;!1"!,1 iH':~ pt·owi ncr,~ ! ) ·.in Canada IAJhJ.ch do have~ some:~ of I: h e i. I" 1. .:-1 r· 9 H r· r; 'i. 1: ·i. H s , 1. "i. I< ''! Q 1 1 f'! b ,,, c City, Quebec and Vancouver, B l'' i. 1'. i. s h Co l.u HI b 'i.e:·\ , p ,::n· 1·. o f Hu,~ non-prof :i t housing global ;:,, g r· E! e ITif'! n t: , 1·.: h ~~ 7 5 I ? S a r· r· a n 9 c.~ rrH~ n L , :in IAJhJ ch thE!Y have de:~s:i.gnc'ltE!d t. h r·o ugh s ornc,1 f' o r·uH.rl.d · ho1~o1 U·H~ y would want to have the mun i cipalities involved.

I apprec.iate the concerns and I can assure t.hE! hon. the ITIE!mber for Wa te r·f o r·d .. K ~'! nmot.l n ·l:. 1:: ha 1:. o v E! r· 1'.·. he,~ rH:~xt IAJeE!k or so IAJe IAJill l:w, as I d:i.d coHun:i. t l: o ! : he~ Dc"!pu-l':y Mayor of the city, sit:t:ing down aga:ln wjth l:hl->.'ir p~~opll,~ dl: Ci. l ... y li<-1l.l., and ··i. f thc,~re :i.s so!TIE:1 oLhE!r arorangE!ment IAJe f ~;! ~;! J. IJ.J(,1 C Ell'l IJ.JO I" k 0 l.l t '1". h d t·: IJ.JO Ill. d b H bE:~ne-..f':ic:idl t-.o the,~ c:ity but noL h ;:,, r· rn f ul 1·. o o 1·. h C:! r· 1 n 1.1 n i c ·i. p i:11. ·i.

I: ~i. n s "i. n ouJ" Pl"ou'.ince, I c~m qu'.i.te op~~n and wi.l.l. ·i.ng to do l:: hdl·, Mi" .. Spt:!dl<t~r· . J hop~~ that IALi]] i'~ddJ"B!> S S(.Jrrl~~ of l:hH concr,1r'n!; of i:hu 1'111-'!lflbt'!r' Fur· Wa.tE-~I"fOI"d l(c.;!nmoun t. . Thank you, Mr·. Spt-=!d k rn·. r~r~. Sf>FAJ<F:R: The hon. the member for Fogo . MR. Tl.ll , l<: Mr· . S p l:~ a k r,~ r· , i. n a d d r· 1::1 s s ·i. n g Concurr·ence:1 Debate on +:he thE! Govl::~r·nme:~nt Se"!r·v·i. CE!S Comrnitt.f:!~~ t::hJ. s mor·n:ing, I IAiant where are all l:h<'! rrri.nist.:er·s, Mr·. Spedk(-?.r·? T l>~lant to Point out a few things to 1: h E!

M ·i. n i s t e-?. r· of T r a n s p o r· '1: i.'il t. i. o n this rnot"n:ing. WhE!r'e is he? Go out and get him, will you? MR. MATTHEWS: I am no+:. yotH' f1 unky, thot~gh. MR. Tl.ILI<: 1 u n d ~~ r· s 1·: and 1: h f~ nobody's flunky . h o n . g f:! n 1: lt''! rrl<.'t n "i. s He j s corn:i ng. I 1914- May 13, 1988 Vol XL a cot~ple of :issues that pe,H'l.ai .n t:.o my r/'i !; r:r··i 1: t ·H1d pt;! r· hd. n l·:o 1:: h<:! Department o~ Transportation, and IJw [)r;!pr:H"l·.uH;!I'll: of lt'dl'l~;por•ti\lti.on happens to fall under the COIHH'I'llllfH1l'. Sf:!t·v ·ic;E! 1 S Counnm ~i.ti··~H!. f"'r• .

Spf'!•'lk(H', announCE!d in the-?. r · ~;! thE! IAJi:;\ ~) i:1 d ~;! C i_ S .i 011 budgE!t, th(;! d~~C'i.s i.on tJJas made s orrw thr·e;!e o1n Four weeks and probabl.y months befot'f~, "Lt. IAJCIS pr·obably rnade befo.re the rninistE!r 1.11ent to ChangE! Islands and Fogo T.s1and, L•.Jh:i. ch :i.t. was it is not probabJ.y at a11, i. 1". IAJH s trlf:1 de . H ~'!

IJ.J~:! n i:. d OIAJn t. o Fogo Island and Change Islands, the bri ght and shi.ni.ng new Min i sl::er oF Transportation, holds a mc;!Ed::i.ng 1.~ri . ·1 ... h L h ~=! trl i:o\ n d m<.·1 k E! s 1·: h (! p C'! o p l.E:~ down there believe that he i s a llJOI'ldfH'"Ftll. yOIII'lg ft=!l loiAI, not.: ln~cl ;:'tl:: al1, a mt-Hl you can tal. k to ... l·w j s d 1na;1 yo11 t: <·\n 'i:;:-1lk l:o. Ti'.: : i. ~=; t.•.Jha'l·. hE! does af't·;(,!l" you t.aJ.k to h:irn, i.~f'l· : ur· yot.l h.:-11Ju .:·1 c hdl·: tAJ"i.th h.i.tn, that is the problem.

Anyway, he goes down and make s IJH~I'II bc-~l_ · j HUt~ IJ1dt l:.I·H:!y t:OII l d t.alk to h:irn and that he,1 tJJouJ.d l ·.isl·:fHl. TIJ.JO IAif~ 0. k s d r hn· I h f'! d 1 1 OI~JS 1:: I ' ll:~ government to come in here and c h o p r·11'l f>. s s o n 1.: "i. d J. s H r· tJ "i. c f;! 1". o b o 1'. h of those Islands. Now, Mr.

Spc.~i:\k~=!r', l:he M:'i.n i.s l".('!r' oF Transportation had to know wh e n he I•JdS on Fogo Island l:hi'lt . th('! decision was going to be made . 0 t: he->. r·t.~.ri. s E:1 , 1: hE~ P r· <:HnJ. (H' IAJI" o t: e t:. h a 1: budgEd: in the same manner that he d o C'! s e:~ u c,~ r· y t: h "i. n g <->. l s e , o u e r· n i g h t. , in a CLash. Mr. Spc;;1ake:!r, I tAJiHd: I·.o point·:. out·: to the rn ·i.rdst.<,!r' c1 fetAl facts about Fogo IsJand, and I IAii:-11'1 t·: '!': 0 ., .. , (,1 l.l h 'i. HI 1All'1 <:1 t-. t".IH~ ?

I () 0 0 people on Fogo Island asked me, 1·: h c.~ i. r· rn ~~ rn b ~ ~ r· , t o I ~ e 1. l. h .i. rn o n Sunday, IJJhf:!n thE!Y cam~:! out to rl ~>. JfiO n s i: r· d i: f~ ~l g"' ·i.n s i·: 1·. h "i. s c:l r~ c "i. !; "i.o n . I know, Ml". Spe,,akr>.r', that. thE!I"~~ ;-n·r~ ol :hnr· fH~opl.t,~ i .n · Ud~; Hou ~ ;p IAJho No. 36 R1914-

have the same types of problems with ferries that I have. Your Honour· rrri.ght I.~H'!l.l. IAri.pt~ h.i. s brotAI, because I understand that he js having a feiM pr·obllWIS 1~1i.l: h I.Jw Minister of Transportation himself "i. n r· e g a t' d s t o S ~·. . B r· H n d a n 1 s . MR. DOYLF: No . No. MR. TlJI..K: H (c~ :is not? MR. DOYI .F.: No . rJJr~. TlJI.K: W(-~ 1~d 1~1- have to r'E!por·t: that to thE! p~~opl!·'! of Si:. fll"r:!l'lrldn 1 ~>, l·:hdt ·t l1 t::H' c,~ a r· e->. n o p r· o b J. e rn s '"d t. h t. h Ed r· f ~HT y .

T ;:wl g 1. a d t: o h r,) a r· I: h ~n· r~ iiln~~ no pr·obJ ~1rns wi t .. h their fer·r·y. 1 .. \->.1:. lfll:! po'i.nt out: to t:he rn"i.n"i.sl-:er· why he should reconsider his d ~::~ c :i. s i. o n . T h e'! rrr:i. n i. s t-. c->. r· , I ·t-. a k e~ it, is combjning the boat SE!rvices b e c a u s c,~ h e,~ f t g u r· e s t h c;! r· e,~ 1. s g o -L n g to be a saving. That -.is the only logical reason that he would do -.it, that thE!re is going to be a sav"i.ng.

OH1er·1.u i.st-:~, hr::1 1~1ould put one boat on Change Islands, in the rnernber for· l...et"dspor•t.c,~ 1 s d:ist:r·i .cl-., and he '"'ouJ d put one boat on Fogo Island. H'~ dssumr,~s I·JH~I"r:! .. is go"i.ng t:o bE! a sav:i ng.

Y r,~ 1::, UHo1 rni rri s hH' ·j s nOIAl h~ l.l ·i ng ur. t· hat he->. :is going to st:.at:ion onE! of Uw SIAJ'i. ng v n s s ~~ 1. !; , o nc·'! of UH'! v~:!!;s~::~Js the,~y usc,~ whc-:!n othE!Y' boats dr'f'! on dr·y dock, !; l:d l·. · innr~d on C ~ lill n g o I !: J <~ n d ~; , j n c a s e o f cHl r;!liii-H'giHlCY. 1\1!)1~1, i.Jw rn-i.n i.s I:Ht' I~J:Hll: l<:i nd of bJ ani< the~ othe,~r· night: j n 1.: h t-:! F. s 1: ·i. nld i:f:! s Comrrri. t hH~ 1~1h ('!i'l f. l. o o k E:~ d cl t h j rn a n d s a '.'1 d , <H' e,~ y o u go i. ng l:o pui: r:·1 cr(!IAJ on? Obviously, he had not thought that Lhr·ough.

You knoiAI, you come->. fr·on1 dOIAll'l :in L1915 May 13, 1988 Vol XL that area, that 'i.f you put a vessel in a certain place, if there is an emergency the boat will not get up and moue on its Ol~ltl, Lhl~ mtn·i.si·.er· :i.s go ·i.ng t:.o have to provide a crew. Now, does the rrri.n'i.s I".Hr' kno1~1 hotAl far· it~. ·i.s fr'OHI Change Islands to Farewell Head? MR:.._ DOYLE: 'f. h <.·11J f~ b H o n o n 1~. h e b o m 1~ .. M I~ . .T U L I< : You have be->.E!n on l:.hE~ boat:? How f i:1 r· ·i. ~; i I ? MR. DOvt F: l l'ldiH,~ nri'ldf:1 l':hat ·lT"i.p . rJJI~. TUI..I<: HOIAI far is it? MR.

DOYLE: I could not l·:c:! 11. yuu hotJ.J far· i.l·.·. i ~; off the top of my hoad. I have gone between Change Islands and - MR. TULK: How about three rniJ.es? <:t g r· e ~~ ·i. i-. t s 1: h r· (o1 ro~ rn:i. l. e s? MR. DOYLE: About that. MR. TULK: Would you Y r:! s , ·i 1·. J. s s 1. t g h t 1 y o lJ C:! r' 1~. h r' l~ e'! m:i J 1::1 s . Tl·lf~ M:i . rri.~;l:rn· of Tr'r'1l'l!lpor·i:.<.·1i·.i .on ls notAl going l.o savE:~ gov~~rnrn~:!nl. t:.ht::! c 0 !; L 0 f rIll'! l. b td:I~Je f'!rl c h a. n g f~ Islands and Farewell Head, that '1:hr'1·:!1~ trri ... l~~~; oF ~~Jdi·Hr'. lhi'1L ·i.s l.lll'lc1·1: hE!

Js going to saVE! jf he:~ i'·.akt:!~; l·:hc,1 dcl: ·ion hi'! !>i:Jys hr-~ ·i.s going to take. Because if you put a !> IAJ 'i. n g lJ <·~ s s o l .. i. n C h "' n g u J s 1 r>1 n d , it is going to be there tied up to 1::1-H'! IAII'l dIn r I d nr:l ·; l': 1011 $ 1: h ; :~ l)f~ d c r· f~IAI if it is going to be of any use in anyi ... hJng i:hdl'. dr··isE!S of <;1n emergency nature. No. 36 R19tt.)

MR. DOYLE: We haue a couple of people out there. MR. TULK: A couple of people- what! MR . DOYLE : We haVE! a fE!IAJ pE!Ople out there on standby. MR. TULI<: Where are you going to get the crew if the boat h~s to moue? MR. DOYLE: 'I will·- get up and ansu..Jer your questions. MR. TLILK : I IAJish hE! would, becauSE! if this minister does not haue to prou:id"! a crE!W for that boat we haVE! bE!E!n IJJc.d ting for him for a long time, the second coming - if he could do that, and I doubt that he can . Mr.

Speaker, J.et me say somE!thing else to the minister, and I want htm to consider this uer·y seriously, because the hon. gen ·Uernan, as I understand it, comes from a sometJJhat rural area of this Province. Last year Fogo Island Co-op shipped $16 million worth of Fish product on that ferry. Now, Mr. Speaker, we are not talking about $16 mill.ion like yotJ and I get paid in this Legislature. Those are not new dollar·s that you and I gE!t paid, they are l:axpay(H'S' dol.l.a1ns, dollars within thE! Neu..JfoundJ.and economy.

The Minister of Transpor·tation ha s to realize that those dollars are I'WIAJ dollars, and the government has to realize that. ThE!Y are new dollars that IAJould not haue bE!en in this econornoy unless you had a Fogo Island there. Now, if you take a multipliE!r ~:::~ffect of 2.5, what IJJe are really talking about is the Ll916 May 13, 1988 Vol XL worth of the fish to this Province and to the Canadian economy, which is something like $40 million for 5000 people .

NOIAJ, if the rninist:er wants to take the 5000 pE!ople - t 1: .is not 5000, il:. is 4700, but for round figures IJJE! u..JiJ.l say 5000 -·· and di.u'id(! tl'1t:!fn l t: in to $40 rrdllion, pE!r capita E!Uery man, tAJOmr.H1 and child on Fogo Island is contributing $8000 per person to Lhe Nr,~tAJfoundl.and E:~conorny. I IAJould sugg _est to hirn that thE!rE! arE! fE!IAJ areas tn this Province contributing near that amount t o the Newfoundland economy, uery -f E!U..J, yet, he dE! C idE! S l hat hE! :i. S going to go dou.m and takE! a ver·y basic SE!rUiCE!, a road- ti'wir boat is a road as Mr.

Speaker knows; the boat to St . Brendan 1 s :i.s a road, t.hC:~ boat to Change::~ Islands is a road, thE! boat to Fogo Is1<:lnd is a road, t.he boat means a road ,_ away from thE:' pe•oplE! of Fogo Island. That is what h<.;! is going to do. HE! or:LginaJ.ly int.E!ndr:H~ to station the boat on Change Is lands, but we got him to changE! his mind a little bit on that. He muddle--fuddled around wi t:h that and changed his rnind a little bit, but esSE!ntially he! is taking that road away. T. supposE~ you coul.d ~·F~t. angry IAJ:it:h the minister; the old pork barreller who used to be in MunicipaJ.

Affairs is notJJ t.hE! po1~k bal~rE:~11.C:'r Jn Lh<'! DC:~partrn<:'nt of Transportation, because he just made a decision, I suspE:~ct, IAr:i.th the encouragement of hjs friend and coll.r:~ague Fo1~ LetAd.spor·te, that great and outstanding member for LeiAJisporte who wi.ll not stand up for the pE:~ople of Change IsJ.ands about their ferry, who run s and hidE!S and te!lls mE! that I shouJ.d give her a chance. I susp<,~ct de!cision in No. 36 he the mad(~ J.ast: a CE!rt.ain coupl l':! of Rl916

weeks - the announcement was made a couple of we1:1ks ago -·· about. a road that serves both the people of Fogo district and the people of l..ev.lisporte district, and I am talking about the Gander Bay/Lewisporte loop. I suspect old pork barreller mad1:1 a certain decision, at the rE!quest of his friend for Lewispor·te. He:1 started to do a bit of paving on that road, Mr. Speaker. It. is amazing! Do you know where the pavement ended? Where would you suspE!Ct, Mr. Speaker?

I onJ.y know of one other place in this Province where it happened, and that was in Trinity North, when thE! now the Minister of Municipal Affairs was Minister of Transportation, Do you know where the road ended? MR. BAKER : Right at the line. MR. TULI< : Whi"lt l"i.ne? MR. BAKER: Betv.1een the Tory and Ltberal dist.r'icts . MR. TULK: Ah, ha! The hon. gentJ.eman guessed it. I wonder how? It must be from experiences of the past. The bit of pavement he is putting down down there came up to it is dr·at.un on the map th1:1 district boundary between Fogo district and Lewisporte district, in spite of the fact that the

section of road that is going to be most used by schooJ. kids and everything else is in my district, is in the district of Fogo . Nov.1, I do not k now what t h (:1 h on . gentleman thinks he is going to do with that . Is the Minister of Transportation foolish enough to believe that the people of Fogo district are going to defeat me U917 May 13, 19 H H Vo1 XL because he cuts off a bit of pavetnE!nl at l~ he boundary of my district? Does he believe that? Wc;!l.l, I hc3.vc~ som~1 netAIS for h:i.m.

You cannot buy the vo ·tE!S of lhE! peopl H of Fogo dis tr:ict:, and you cannot bribe them and blackmail t:hc;!rn into voting agatn s ·t a m~Hnbt~r they happen to like. NE!it.:heln can you buy them, br·"i.be:1 them or blackmail them into voting for a member they do not like, namely the member for Lewisporte. MR. DOYLE : Plus, you are very modest . MR. TULK : Of course, I am modest. I shou1d have been up here saying t his eight ye!ars ago. It took rrll':! nine ye:1ar·s t:o gEd: it out'.

And I say to the hon. gE!ntle!rnan that if hE! tAJanl:s to l:ak 'e l:'.he l:axpay~H'S 1 rnorH:1Y of this Province;! and play poJ.-.i.l:ics IAI-Lth il: , J.F he 1.~1r.~nt.s l:o do t.hi:'lt l:'.o try to get the minister of 1Aihatc,1vc,1r he;! is ovc;!r l: hetnE! now re-elected and mE! defE!ated, if he wants to play pork barreller instead of bedng t:hE! MinistE!r of Tr·anspor·tatton, ti'HHl I say to him, go right ahead, you go right ahE!ad and put. pavemE!I1t in LetAiispor·te district, use every cent you haVE! - I believe it is $39 million this year. AN HON. MEMBER: Not any more. It is forty million . MR.

TULK: Forty million dollars. in Lewisporte district not work. Because, I hon. gc-?.ntleman, you votes in this Province . Use it. ctJ.l and it tAii.ll say to the cannot:. buy I understand the Premier is on hi s way to Whitbourne to make a big announce!fnE!nt. WelJ., that is anol:'.her district. !f he thinks he is going to take it: by going out No. 36 R191'7

there and making a announcements, , I say to the gentleman he is throwing money afb:~r bad. few hon. good Mr. Speaker, I say to the Minister of Transportation the people of Fogo Island produced $16 million worth of new fish, thE! Fogo Island Co-op has a payroll of $6 million, and it costs those people $4.00 more pE!r tr·ac l::or tr·r.d.ler J.oi:ld oF fish to get across that service t. h cHl i. t: s h o u l. d .

H e h c.•1 s i. n c r e,H~ s e;! d the rates tremendously in spite of the fact that on January 16 of this year hE! made a statement not: i.n l·:h'i.s l_e,~gislatur·r,~ bocausr~ he;! does not . do that, he makE!S them outside · Siily:ing tha L h<,1 bel tc::w<;!(;l that the Gulf ferry service should be;! tr·eatE!d as a road and that you should pay no more than it would cost you to drive Lhat ni.nety miles. MR. SIMMONS: Did he say that? MR. TULK : Oh, yes. He said that. But he cannot take that principle that he believes in so strongly with the federal government and apply it to his own people. He cannot do that.

Inst.e;!ad of thai::, E!Very April 1 up she goes again. It now costs $170 to get c1 tractor trailer across the seven miles of lAJat.c;!r - sE~VE!I1 mi l.E!S of J~oc:td . and get it back - $170 for a tractor tr·ailr:~r. MR. MATTHEL'IIS: That is cheap. MR. TULK: Cheap! -- Cheap, he says! Cheap, says the Minister of Career Development, the layoff minister. He says t:hat is cheap . Notu, Mr.

Speaker, I say to the hon. genthHnan U1at if we are going to L1918 May 13, 19 8 8 Vol XL develop this Province-- I say to him that transportation is very important, he has a very important portfolio then the han. gentleman has to start look:ing at whr:~re t:he r·e,~al action :is, and thE! government has to start looking. It :is not: e:Hwugh for him l: o go down and be nice to Change Islands pe,wple-?. and Fogo Island pr:wplE:~ i:<~nd . thi.nk he is go:i.ng to smooth over the t r Feathers by having a few lttt.le rrteE!ti.ngs u.rith thE!Tn. That:. 'is no I:: go'i.ng l:o li.JOJ"k.

The (,~conorny will not improve by doing that . :r say to thE:1 hon. gE!ntlE!l'nan that IAlhdl he,1 has l:o do .is st:ar·t lookinq outside thE! overpass . Instead of spend'i.ng $22 m-i.ll.'ion on t.~Jhat they call on Fogo Island now a cucumber fcu·m, t·. c:~kE! sorn~:! of that. rnonl:!y and dtvert it into places lik e St. BrE:Hldan 1 s, i.nt.:o placE!S l'ik('! Change Islands, and, of coui~SE!, :Lnto ono of the most producLive area s in this Province, Fogo IsJ.and. Now, I know what the ministE!r is going to stand up and say .

He :is going to stand up and say, 1 I am going to ml,1et with thr:~m. 1 By the way- I wonder if the rnin:i .ster is listening? he stated in the House the other day that he had alrE)f.~dy · SE!t up a rne,~E!t:i.ng tAJ:ith the people of Fogo IsJ.and and Change I sl. d n d s . W r:~ l. l. , I wo u l. d l.:i k E! for the rninistE!r to tE!ll those pE!OplE! lAJh~)n i ~ ht) rner:~i:.ing i.s, bE!CC:~use,~ t.h(;~Y do not knotAJ about tt YE!t . I arn not goin9 to se1y that t:he m'i.nist.:er misled thts House, that wouJ.d bE:! nonsr,111 S (,~.

He says he,~ ha s a meettng SE!t up wi th thE! peoplE! of Fogo Island and Change Isl.ands. The for·mer Minister of HE!alt:h knotJJs how :i.mporl:i:tnt it: :is l::o those people to hold regular meetings to d :is cuss tAd '1'.: h t 11 em . He lAJa s a v e r· y good MirdstE!r of Health for Fogo Island. As as matt.E!r' of fact, hE! No. 36 R1918

was highly respected down there. But I ca-n tell this Minister of Tr·Rnspor·t.t'll.i.on t:hc:d: .. if hE! dOC:!!> not change his attitude and eh does not ChiHI9E! the I.•Jdy /1~<:1 deCllS IAii.i:.h the peoplE:' of Fogo Island and he doe,1s not. put back l·:he,) t"Odd thHt h~~ took from thE!m, tJJhE!n he moves on to green<:1r pastur·es, as t.h0. hon. gentJ.ernan for Exploits has moved -­ I am not sur·e :if it. is gr·e,)ei'H>.r pastures, but he has moved he will not have the same kind of respect that that han. gentleman has.

Now, I would 1.il<e for the minister - I think my time is just about up - to stand in his place and do one of two things, either giVE! somE! very rational, very good economic development reasons tJJhy he has done whe~t he has done, or other1.11ise stand :in his place and say that he,) :i.s going to le;!t those,1 fE:HTy systE!ITIS rE!Vert to their originRl condition Clnd indeed improve that condition. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOMF HON. MEMBERS: Hc,)aln, hear! DR. TWOMEY: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Ministe!r of Public Works and Services. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! DR.

TWOMEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for BurgE!O Bay d 1 Espoir hi:'ls pr·esent.E!d a number of questions :.i.n t:he,1 House todmy, as he d