Manitoba Hansard — 22 November 2022 (Sitting 6, 42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-6

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 6 - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 22, 2022 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon.

Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon.

Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Kirkfield Park

147 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, November 22, 2022 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): It is my duty to inform the House that the Speaker is unavoidably absent. Therefore, in accordance with the statutes, I would ask the Deputy Speaker to please take the Chair. Mr. Deputy Speaker (Andrew Micklefield): O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province.

Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. We acknowl edge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline, Nehethowuk nations. We acknowl edge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis.

We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner- ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration. Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 5–The Demise of the Crown Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'm pleased to introduce a bill to the Legislature called the demise of the Crown act.

As Canadians know, King Charles III –[interjection] Oh, sorry. I'm new to the Legislature, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I move, seconded by the Minister of Education, that Bill 5, The Demise of the Crown Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I'll try this again. Members of the House and of course Canadians know that King Charles III became the sovereign of Canada upon the passing of Queen Elizabeth II, and it's necessary for the laws of Manitoba to reflect the change of the sovereign.

The proposed bill amends several statutes to ad - dress these changes. For example, changing the name of the Queen's Printer to the King's Printer and Queen's Counsel to King's Counsel. In addition, it pro- vides the ability in the future when these changes are necessary for them to be done by the Chief Legislative Counsel, as opposed to a new act. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 6–The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation): I move, seconded by the Minister of Health (Ms. Gordon), that Bill 6, the public insurance cor poration amend ment act, be now read for a first time. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the hon- ourable Minister of Justice, seconded by the honourable Minister of Health, that Bill 6, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Mr. Goertzen: This bill amends The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act.

It will protect claimants with impaired cognitive functioning, allow Manitoba Public Insurance to recover third- party payments in the cases of fraud, expand Income Re placement Indemnity to individuals 65 years of age and older and ensure that residents of other juris dictions are com - pensated fairly. These amendments can–will ensure that the Personal Injury Protection Plan continues to provide ratepayers and those who are insured the most appro- priate supports that they need. Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

148 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Bill 200–The Black History Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended) Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): I move, seconded by the member for Union Station (MLA Asagwara), that Bill 200, The Black History Month Act (Com memo- ration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Moses: I'm proud to introduce Bill 200, The Black History Month Act, which will formally recog- nize February of each year as Black History Month.

Black people and people of African descent have made important contributions to Manitoba throughout its history, including successfully fighting for human rights advancement and –that have benefi tted all Manitobans. However, these contributions have often gone unnoticed and are not well known within the general public. The hope is that by formally recognizing Black History Month, greater awareness will be brought towards the contributions of Black people and people of African descent within Manitoba and Canada.

Black History Month is a time to acknowledge the past struggles and groundbreakers, celebrate achievements throughout Black history, educate all Manitobans and strive for greater equity for the benefit of future genera- tions. I look forward to debating Bill 200 in the House as soon as possible, and hope for unanimous support from all members of this Legislature. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 201–The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): I move, seconded by the member for St. Johns (Ms.

Fontaine), that Bill 201, The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act, now be read a first time. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the hon- ourable member for St. James, seconded by–did I hear correct, the honour able member for St. Johns? [interjection] Yes, okay. Seconded by the honourable member for St. Johns, that Bill 201, The Resi dential Tenancies Act–sorry, amendment act, be now read a first time. Mr.

Sala: I'm honoured to present Bill 201, The Residential Tenancies Amendment Act, to this House to help better protect renters from above -guideline rent increases in Manitoba. * (13:40) With the cost of living continuing to rise expo- nentially, it's so important that we protect renters here in Manitoba. Bill 201 will help to mitigate rent evic - tions and tenants being hit with large rent increases for work that is simply needed, ongoing maintenance.

In situations where above-guideline increases are need - ed, Bill 201 will provide means to limit the immediate financial impact on renters by phasing the increases over a period of time to ensure greater affordability for renters. Thank you very m uch, Mr. Speaker–Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 202–The Abortion Protest Buffer Zone Act Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I move, seconded by the member for Point Douglas (Mrs. Smith), that Bill 202, The Abortion Protest Buffer Zone Act, be now read a first time. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable member for St. Johns, seconded by – [interjection]–the honour able member for Point Douglas, that Bill 202, The Abortion Protest Buffer Zone Act, be now read a first time. Ms. Fontaine: I am proud to stand in the House and introduce Bill 202 yet again, Deputy Speaker. The Abortion Protest Buffer Zone Act establishes buffer zones or safety perimeters around any clinic, hospital or health -care facility offering abortion services.

In addition to abortion zones around public schools, Bill 202 prohibits any protests, demonstrations or picketing within these zones to protect Manitobans, alongside health-care providers, a gainst harassment, intimidation and persuasion on abortion. Again, Deputy Speaker, anti -choice individuals have no busi ness protesting and harassing citizens accessing health-care services or harassing children at our schools. They are more than welcome to protest here at the Legislature, and I look forward to the unanimous consent on Bill 202. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 149 Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for Keewatinook. [interjection] Agreed and so ordered. Thank you. Bill 203–The Orange Shirt Day Statutory Holiday Act (Various Acts Amended) Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): I move, seconded by the member from St. Johns, that Bill 203, The Orange Shirt Day Statutory Holiday Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Mr. Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the hon- ourable member for Keewatinook, seconded by – [interjection]–the honour able member for St. Johns (Ms.

Fontaine), that Bill 203, The Orang e Shirt Day Statutory Holiday Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Mr. Bushie: I'm honoured, as an Indigenous MLA here in the Manitoba Legislature, to introduce Bill 203, The Orange Shirt Day Statutory Holiday Act, to recognize and honour the lives lost and the survivors of resi dential schools, their families and their communities by making September 30 a statu - tory holiday.

The orange shirt has become a symbol of remem- brance for resi dential school survivors, and this day not only recognizes that, but it would also allow for public education on the history and legacy of the resi- dential school system on Indigenous peoples and to commemorate the lives lost. It will also help to move Manitoba forward in the true spirit of reconciliation. Miigwech. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] And, just before going to committee reports, just a friendly reminder to all members, when those bills from any member is introduced, if you can fill in the seconder. There's lots going on up here and I don't always hear or perhaps, remember. So, anyway, just for future reference. Committee reports? Tabling of reports? Minis - terial statements? Introduction of Guests Mr. Deputy Speaker: Before moving to members' statements, we have a few people to introduce.

Okay, we have got, seated in the public gallery, from Churchill High School–which group is that? Oh, it's you guys. We have got 15 students, ages 17 to 20 years old, under the direction of Chantelle Cotton. The group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew). We welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. Also seated in the public gallery we have from River East Collegiate 20 grade 9 students–are you guys here? I don't see them yet. Okay, well, you know what, maybe we'll hold on to that one, see if they come in. So, great. All right. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Payton Zubec Hon.

Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would re- cognize the football team and supporters from Sturgeon Heights Collegiate joining us here today. Today I rise to recognize the exemplary efforts of high school students within the Assiniboia constitu- ency. Those école Sturgeon Heights Collegiate stu- dents have made great strides in philanthropy and have become role models to their fellow classmates and community. Mr. Deputy Speaker, in both 2021 and 2022, Payton Zubec, the Sturgeon Heights Huskies football team student manager, was recognized as a true com- munity hero.

Payton was inspired when she saw a player kneeling in prayer before a game to his father that had passed to –from cancer. Payton remembered her own loss, a close friend who had passed away from cancer at the tender age of 10. Payton realized that there was an opportunity to turn the school's homecoming football game into a fundraiser for CancerCare Manitoba, and with the support of the school, other team managers and the players they were able to raise over $7,000.

These students campaigned for ten days door to door through the com munity, for donations, held BBQs, contributed funds raised through the 50/50 draws and sold used Sturgeon Heights Huskies jerseys. Admission to the homecoming game was a dona tion and everyone donating $10 or more was enter ed into a draw to win prizes generally–generously donated by local businesses. This year, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Payton added a rose ceremony. Team members came forward with family and friends who had fought their own cancer battles and were honoured with a rose. This moment will be forever remembered by all those who attended.

150 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 As they listened to family testimonials, Payton watch- ed the players and her teammates grow a deeper con- nection and understanding of loss, of cancer. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like my colleagues to join me as I rise to thank Payton and her family, along with the team representatives and teachers for their awesome achievement. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like their names all incorporated into Hansard.

Team repre sentatives: Jordan Bernshine, Vincent Campbell, Marley Dacquel-Javate, Chase Davidson, Tyler Fabbri, Liam Fischer, Ethan Gamblin, Ryker Gibson, Owen Glazier, Declan Hanley, Braeden Jacobucci, Benett Luke, Taylor Marchant, Brennan McCammon, Marley McKinney, Jonathan Paquette, Jarome Penner, Duncan Pickering, Dominique Rae, Chase Speirs, Belle Syrett, Mason Thorn, Rohan Tyagi, Eric Vincent, Payton Zubec Family members: Glynis Zubec, Janet Zubec, Matt Zubec, Paul Zubec Mr.

Deputy Speaker: I was aware the clock had run out, but there were a couple of applauses spontan- eously during the statement and the nature of the topic as well, so. NorWest Co-op Community Food Centre MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Mr. Deputy Speaker, NorWest Co-op Community Food Centre is a local organization that empowers families and in - dividuals struggling with food insecurity within the Notre Dame community.

The community food centre has five staff mem - bers, as well as dozens of volunteers every month who help to deliver the food programming at the centre, with 480 volunteer hours completed by 48 unique volunteers in October. This organization delivers food programming which engages the public and builds capacity within the community. NorWest Co-op follows the food centre model, which is distinct from many other charitable giving programs. By doing so, they address underlying issues of chronic hunger, poverty and poor health.

They do that by offering beautiful shared spaces where people can grow food, cook together, share and advocate for access to affordable, nutritious food. * (13:50) NorWest Co -op Community Food Centre runs dine-in lunches three days a week as well as dine- in dinners on Thursdays. They also run family cooking classes on Wednesday evenings, host drop-ins for coffee or tea on Thursday mornings and run a fruit and veggie mar- ket on Thursdays at Bluebird seniors lodge. NorWest Co-op also runs a variety of programs at Blake Gardens Resource Centre and NorWest on Alexander.

Through having programs such as dine -ins and classes, the community food centre can engage with people to better understand each individual and family's food security concerns and offer more personalized support and empowerment. Earlier this year, the community food centre also broke ground on their community farm project, which offers the opportunity for volunteers and patrons to build skills in gardening in a collaborative environment. Please join me in welcoming members of the NorWest Co -op Community Food Centre: Tyler Engel, Junie Omand-Penner, Rolly Abaga and Arcely Juan.

We would like to thank you and the many volun- teers at the CFC for your commitment to offering nutritious food in a dignified environment for Notre Dame community members accessing meals through your program. Thank you very, very much. Glenn Nanka Hon. Jon Reyes (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): Mr. Deputy Speaker, today I have the great pleasure of honouring Waverley constituent, Glenn Nanka, a 51- year-old epitome of health. Glenn currently works at J.H. Bruns–has been working with special needs kids in Manitoba schools for 28 years.

Glenn's experience is a story of resilience, community safety and motivation. On Sunday, August 21st, 2022, Glenn suffered cardiac arrest at the Foody Goody Chinese buffet restaurant. Luckily, an off-duty paramedic from outside the city who hap- pened to be a patron at the restaurant that day im me- diately began CPR until the city paramedics arrived. Sam Jafaar, the owner of the restaurant, his staff, as well as the other random patrons, also did not hesitate to jump and to do whatever they could do to help.

Therefore, after, Fire Chief David Butler and his staff from the fire paramedic service station 21 arrived at the restaurant to assist the paramedics. On the day following the incident, Sam, the res - taurant owner, immediately registered for a CPR course. Glenn wants everyone to follow Sam's lead

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 151 and take to a CPR course and maybe possibly save a life one day. Glenn would like to thank superher oes of our time: firefighters, paramedics, doctors, nurses and all the staff on the fifth floor in the cardiology ward of the St. Boniface Hospital. Thanks to them, Glenn can right–can get right back into coaching his teams, work with his special needs kids and enjoy his time with his family. He feels accomplished to be a role model to his teenage boys, Mathieu and Eric, and a loving husband to his wife Michelle.

He has been a director for the Manitoba Soccer Association since 2020. Since 2011, he's also been a volunteer soccer, basketball, volleyball and badmin - ton coach. Glenn has been a model for the community service for his players by having them volunteer as bike valet attendants at the Winnipeg Blue Bomber games as well as ball retrievers at the Valo ur FC games at IG Field. His goal is to make everyone he encounters feel safe, recognizing that each immigration story is a part of a legacy that can inspire generations. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me in honouring Mr.

Glenn Nanka for his dedicate to service in developing the lives of newcomers, students and those with special needs through sports and community service. Glad to have you here, my friend. Government Record on Reconciliation Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): In last week' s Throne Speech I noted two things from this govern - ment and this Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) that should never have been spoken in the same sentence: my predecessor and advancing reconciliation. But that was the exact words and context this Premier used to describe their work in regards to re - conciliation here in Manitoba.

Again, it just goes to show that this PC gov ernment's view towards re - conciliation for Indigenous people here in Manitoba is still being driven by the Brian Pallister agenda. After all, the current Premier claimed to be working, quote: behind the scenes in Brian Pallister's gov ernment. That's almost like another word to say hidden agenda. Or perhaps Brian Pallister's thoughts and views to - wards Indigenous people was, in fact, brought forward by the people behind the scenes and in his inner circle. And to be clear, Brian Pallister's inner circle is still sitting in Cabinet today.

Further to that, Brian Pallister's hand-picked Minister for Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations is still in that position today and has done nothing to advance reconciliation here in Manitoba. But instead when the minister gets asked about recon- ciliation–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Bushie: –he rises and reads the same scripted an- swer–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Bushie: –to every question. This government has no intention of advancing reconciliation in partnership with Indigenous people.

Why else would the minister say he is consulting with Indigenous people on a framework for consultation policy when, in fact, he had already submitted one for Cabinet approval prior to further discussions with Indigenous people? Again, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is just another example of this government simply going through the motions and to make it look like they are working with Indigenous people, when, in fact, decisions on Indigenous issues have already been made by govern- ment and government alone. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, as the First Peoples of this land, Indigenous people and Indigenous issues here in Manitoba deserve to be treated with respect and dignity and not viewed by government as after - thoughts, as this government does every day. And we know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that this is how Brian Pallister viewed Indigenous people. And it's clear that this government's agenda on Indigenous issues is still Brian Pallister's agenda, and that is shameful. Concurrent Care Option–Palliative Care Patients Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the government talks of putting patients first, and yet time and time again the government fails to deliver. An example is when a person in their last year of life has a form of cancer for which there is a treatment, though the chance of success is low, and they are given a choice of either having the treatment or of receiving palliative care. It is an ugly choice, because to receive palliative care, the person must give up the possibility of receiving a life-saving treatment. Other jurisdictions use an approach called con - current care in which a person in the last year of their

152 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 life can receive palliative care and receive active treat- ment. Concurrent care gives the patient a much better choice; it puts the patient first. It means the person can receive palliative care earlier. Too often in Manitoba a person may choose treat- ment, and then when things don't go well, there is a hurried, last-minute attempt to provide palliative care. The Manitoba approach is not optimal. First, there is a delay in the person receiving care from the palliative-care team.

Second, as mentioned, it provides the person an ugly choice: either give up the hope of potential benefits of treatment or receive palliative care. A careful study of concurrent care shows it's a much better approach. It gives the patient a choice. Experience in other jurisdictions shows there is much greater patient satisfaction with concurrent care. The palliative-care team is of much greater benefit when involved earlier, and early involvement of the palliative-care team has been shown to reduce emer - gency room visits by half and the use of hospitals and ICUs by 70 to 85 per cent.

Overall, concurrent care is less costly. Why does the government talk about putting patients first but not act to do it? It's one more reason why Manitoba needs a Liberal government instead of the current inade- quate government. Introduction of Guests Mr. Deputy Speaker: We have seated in the public gallery, from River East Collegiate, 20 grade 9 students under the direction of Dennis–oh, I hope I say this right, Dennis–Dekleva. Is that right? [interjection] Hey.

This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Rossmere, who I know quite well, is a very close personal friend, and we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. Okay. Here we go. ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care System Nurse Overtime Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Just like Brian Pallister, this Premier–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –is not doing anything to help those on the front lines of our health-care system. We know that health -care workers on the front lines are feeling burnt out. They're feeling exhausted, and it's with good reason.

New numbers out of the Prairie Mountain Health region show us just how bad this situation is. Nurses worked 186,000 hours of overtime in 2021, and that's just in the Prairie Mountain region. That's more than 21 years of consecutive overtime. The situation is bad, and it's getting worse. Why is the Premier failing to address the crisis on the front lines of our health-care system? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we are addressing the surgical backlogs in the province of Manitoba that resulted as a result of the– came about as a result of the pandemic. * (14:00) We've taken steps to address that issue. That's why we were able to get 66 spine surgeries completed at Sanford Health centre, 66 spine surgeries that took place that–because the NDP likes to put ideology over patient care–66 people that would've been denied their surgeries. We will always put patient care first in the pro - vince of Manitoba. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: The Premier should tell Manitobans how much those surgeries are costing in America. Mean - while, back here in Manitoba, nurses are working– [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –way more overtime than they ever have before. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: Not only did nurses have to work 186,000 hours of overtime last year, they're on track to work 200,000 hours of overtime this year.

That's the equivalent of 22 years of consecutive overtime, and it's symptomatic of the cuts at the front line of the bedside, of our health- care system, that they have directed at the PC Cabinet table, just like Brian Pallister. Will the Premier tell the House why her gov ern- ment has done nothing to address the overtime crisis in our health-care system?

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 153 Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, unlike the Leader of the Opposition, we won't put a price on patient care. Patients deserve to get the surgeries that they need, when they need them. We will continue to put patient care first over ideo- logy in this province every single day. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: We say Manitobans should get health care right here in Manitoba, and not America. That's why you need to invest in health care right here at home.

Last year, 186,000–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –hours–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –of overtime worked by nurses. This year, we're on track for 200,000 hours of nurse over - time. This is a symptom of the problem on the front lines of the health-care system that the PCs caused. And now, this is why they now have to resort to sending Manitobans out of province, because we don't have the human resou rce capacity to care for people in our province since they started their cuts. I will table the documents that prove the situation is dire.

Will the Premier finally explain to Manitobans why she continues Brian Pallister's legacy of health - care cuts? Mrs. Stefanson: This is a Leader of the Official Opposition, Mr. Deputy Speaker, who just stood be - fore this House and basically stated that he would deny these 66 individuals from getting the spinal surgical procedures that they needed. He would've left those 66 people –and all of those members opposite, they would've left those 66 individuals in pain just because of their own ideology. Well, I say that's wrong. We will stand up for patient care every single day in this province. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Order, please. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Manitoba Municipalities Operating Funding Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Let's correct the record: we would've given those 66 Manitobans health care here in Manitoba. Also here in Manitoba, munici palities– [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –have been dealing with so many 'crisises' since 2016, whether it's floods, whether it's the situation with deteriorat ing roads or the public service response to the pandemic.

And yet, since 2016, this gov ernment, just like Brian Pallister, has frozen funding for municipalities. It's wrong. We think it would–it should stop. That's why, today, our team committed to ending the funding freeze for munici palities in Manitoba. We'd like to do that, should we get the–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –great honour of leading this province. But in the interim–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –will the Premier match our commitment and commit to ending the municipal funding freeze in Manitoba? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition was all over the map in his question today. But what I will address is what I believe and what members on this side of the House believe: that it's wrong to leave 66 individuals in pain, suffering. But not only would he leave those 66 individuals waiting in pain, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because of his own ideology, he would have put 12,000–he would have denied 12,000 Manitobans who got access to surgical procedures in private facilities around Manitoba. He would have denied those 12,000 Manitobans. He would have left them waiting in pain.

I will tell you, we will always stand for patient care to make sure that they get it when they need it, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We will not put ideology over patient care in this province. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary.

154 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Mr. Kinew: Manitobans know that it's going to take years to fix the damage that the PCs have caused to health care, but–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –they know that our team is up to the challenge. Now, to repeat, for the benefit of the Premier, the question was about her gov ernment's munici pal funding freeze. Again, just like Brian Pallister, this Premier has frozen funding for munici palities since 2016. Now, this puts farms at risk because ditches and culverts are not being maintained.

This puts folks in the com mu- nity at risk because roads are not being repaired. This impacts–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –any number of public services in our province. We say it's wrong, it should stop. A nd an NDP government will end the PC municipal funding freeze. Now, the question is, will the PCs match this commitment? Will the Premier end the municipal– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired.

I'm just going to take th e opportunity to say, everyone, take a deep breath in and out and let's just cool it down a little bit, and we're hardly started here and it's already quite noisy. So, the honourable First Minister. Mrs. Stefanson: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for a question finally about our wonderful munici - palities in the province of Manitoba. Why –I wonder why he's asking that question now and didn't ask it before. But that's okay, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I want to thank Kam Blight, the president of the AMM.

I also want to thank Denys Volkov, the executive director, and all of the mayors, the reeves, the councillors right across this great province of ours who are doing yeoman's work for Manitobans, Mr. Deputy Speaker. What I will say is, they recognize the fact that we doubled the Building Sustainable Communities fund– $25-million investment into our com munities across our province; $100 million for an arts, culture and sports fund that is going directly into those munici - palities, helping them, Mr. Deputy Speaker; and $15 million directly more than those funds to repair potholes in the spring of this year.

There's more work to do, we know, and we will work very closely with the association– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable First Minister's time has expired. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Anyone who's driven on a road in this province this year has seen first-hand the impact of the municipal funding freeze. The roads are in a situation of disrepair. The PCs want to deny this reality when they all drive to work on potholed roads which are the result of their municipal funding freeze.

We've seen the situation with the overland flood- ing in the Interlake, we've seen the situation whe re community programs are being cut, where municipal workers and public services are being cut because they made the decision at the Cabinet table that, just like Brian Pallister, they're going to freeze funding for municipalities. We've committed to ending the funding freeze: The question for the Premier is, will she do the same? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, unlike members opposite who just seem to realize, you know, that there's municipalities outside the city of Winnipeg when there happens to be an AMM con- vention in the city of Winnipeg–that's the only time they care about what's happening in munici palities across the province –each and every single day, we stand up for our municipalities right across this great province of ours. * (14:10) And I can tell you, we doubled the Building Sus- tainable Communities fund from 12 and a half million dollars to $25 million. That's going to munici palities right across this great province of ours.

We have the arts, sports and culture fund, $100 million that's earmarked for those –out in those communities right across this great province of ours; $15 million to help with those roads that the Leader of the Opposition is talking about, went right to munici- palities to help with those potholes and help 'clearn' those up, Mr. Deputy Speaker, after a very harsh winter. We will stand with the Association of Manitoba Municipalities each and every single day, not when it's just, like, convenient–

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 155 Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Provincial Funding for Municipalities Request to Change Funding Model Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I've just returned from the Association of Manitoba – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –Municipalities convention floor, where municipalities were giving the Stefanson government an earful all morning. And who can blame them? [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Wiebe: While costs have gone up across the board, the PCs have frozen operating funding f or seven straight budgets and counting. It's clear this gov ernment just isn't listening. But we are. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Wiebe: If given the oppor tunity, we will – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wiebe: –end the fundi ng freeze for munici - palities in this province. Will the minister just get on board and support our plan to end the municipal funding freeze? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The–[interjection] I'm just waiting. The honourable member for –the honourable Minister of Agriculture. Hon.

Derek Johnson (Acting Minister of Municipal Relations): Thank you for that time for the House to settle down a little bit. I just want to thank everyone who's partici pated in this AMM here. All the time that they take out of their personal life to donate their time to come here as a mayor and reeve and council, it's near and dear to my heart. As people in this Chamber know, I was with the RM of St. Laurent for four years, so I ap preciate all the time out of your personal life that it takes to give back to the com munity. This is grassroots politics.

And it was great to see so many old friends and meet so many new ones. Mr. Wiebe: Mr. Deputy Speaker, that minister was there this morning when the Minister of Munici pal Relations (Ms. Clarke) admitted to AMM delegates that all costs have gone up but that she had done nothing to support those municipalities in seven years on the job. She knows that munici palities deliver essential services to Manitobans that they rely on, like w aste collection, road maintenance and so much more. But this government refuses to work with them and sup- port them as it's forced them to cut those services and make hard decisions.

Will the minister simply do the right thing and commit to ending the municipal funding freeze in this province? Mr. Johnson: Member opposite knows that AMM and their members appreciate the no-strings-attached funding. They had so much paperwork under the previous NDP gov ernment, they were happy to see that go under our government. Building Sustainable Communities: $25 million; $20 million for the Manitoba Water Services Board; five-year backlog we knocked off in one year.

These are the things that Manitoban municipali- ties appreciate across the province, n ot to mention hundreds of millions of dollars for the COVID restart to help them get through the tough couple years that we had. I personally had thank yous from members of my community in all of that funding. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wiebe: The minister obviously wasn't listening to the delegates. The consensus this morning, and all through out this convention, is clear: municipalities want the PCs to end the munici pal funding freeze.

T hey've met those challenges, such as COVID -19 and high infla - tion, head on, and they've responded to these chal - lenges without that adequate support from this PC government. The PCs refused to build those strong relation- ships and part nerships with m unicipalities because they won't even come to the table and end the funding freeze. I'm proud to say–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

156 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Mr. Wiebe: –this NDP team, if given the opportunity, we would end that freeze–absolutely, first thing. So I ask: Will the PCs get on board, join us in committing to ending the munici pal funding freeze today? Mr. Johnson: As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the municipalities appreciate the no-strings- attached funding. Do you know what else they appre- ciate? They ap preciate $9 million in Green Team funding that never happened under the NDP gov ern- ment.

We realize there's more work to do, and what we're going to do is stay in government, stop the NDP from raising the PST, which takes $3.1 million out of municipal pockets each and every year. PC Candidate for Kirkfield Park Credentials and Work History Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): When you apply for a job, you shouldn't lie on your r esumé. Every Manitoban knows that– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. Please stop the clocks. Colleagues: decorum, please. Please restart the clocks. The member for St. Johns has the floor, and I paused my stopwatch. Ms.

Fontaine: As I was saying, Kevin Klein, the PC candidate for Kirkfield Park, is not being honest with Manitobans. He publicly claims he's been the chair - man of a Florida pharmaceutical company since 2017. That's not true. Cor porate records that I table today shows he's never been an officer or a director of that company. Why does the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) think it's okay– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired. Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): For many years in the provi nce of Manitoba, when individuals were applying for the job of MLA, they didn't have to disclose any criminal record that they had. Because this gov ernment brought in legis lation that requires people who are applying to be an MLA to disclose a criminal record, that is now open and public as of the last election. Can the member opposite explain to me or tell us how that went for her party? Ms. Fontaine: Here's the thing: either you're a member or –of a board of directors, or you're not.

Kevin Klein clai ms he's been a board member – [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –of a different Florida pharmaceutical company also since 2017. That's not true. Cor porate records also shown he's never been able –he's never been an officer or a director of this other company. I will table the documents. Why does the Premier think it's okay for Kevin Klein to lie to Manitobans about his work history? Mr. Goertzen: Here's the thing: either you have a criminal record or you don't.

But for many years in the province of Manitoba, if you were applying to be an MLA, to be a lawmaker, you didn't have to disclose whether or not you'd ever broken and been convicted of breaking the law, up until our government brought in legis lation to require that. That was since –a law since the last election. Maybe the member opposite wants to disclose to all Manitobans–some people might not be able to go online–how many members of their party had to dis - close a criminal record in the last election. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order, please. Ms.

Fontaine: Every Manitoban knows, when you apply for a job, you shouldn't lie on your resumé, but that's what's happening in Kirkfield Park right now, deputy speak– * (14:20) Kevin Klein is not being honest with Manitobans. He said he was the chairman or a board member of two different pharmaceutical companies. All of that is lies, Deputy Speaker. It means voters aren't being given an accurate infor mation on who their PC can- didate is. Why does the Premier think that it's okay that her candidate is lying to Manitobans to be an MLA in this Chamber? Mr. Goertzen: The member opposite is right.

To be an MLA in this Chamber is an honour and it's a privi- lege, and you should have to disclose things. Because

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 157 of our government, members of the Assembly or those who run to be members of the Assembly have to disclose their criminal records. That wasn't the case before the last election. I wonder if the member opposite could inform the House not only how many members and how many charges members of her caucus had to disclose, but in the upcoming election, how many more members and candidates will have to disclose criminal records. And maybe she could explain the nature of those charges and convictions as well, Mr. Deputy Speaker. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. [interjection] Order. [interjection] Order, please. Curling Centre of Excellence Project Update Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the pandemic first struck in March of 2020, the PC government told everybody that they were going to aggressively cut, and cut they did. They laid off thousands of people. They forced unpaid days onto Crown cor porations. They told post -secondaries to present in-year cuts of 30 per cent.

This was also the same month in which the Province transferred $15 million to a project called the curling centre of excellence, on which, by all accounts, nothing happened. This project was promised in 2016, 2018 and 2020. Why hasn't this project materialized? Mr. Deputy Speaker: I believe the honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage is joining us virtually. Hon. Andrew Smith (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): That's correct. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able minister, please go ahead. [inaudible] I would just say to the minister–okay.

What I'm going to–Minister, we cannot hear you for technology reasons. Okay, please pause the clocks. We're going to just figure out the right way to handle this. Minister, can you hear me? We cannot hear you. I'm just going to–[interjection] Okay, we don't have a good enough connection to make this work. So, either another minister can stand in or we move to the next question. Thank you, honourable Minister of Justice. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): This is a gov ernment that has invested $100 million into arts and culture and sport in the province of Manitoba, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. Yes, there's more to do on broadband, but when it comes to arts, culture and sports, this is a government that's committed. We're hearing from communities across Manitoba how much they appre ciate that funding. In fact, we heard it again this morning at AMM. They appreciate the funding that's coming from this gov ernment for arts and culture, and we'll continue to bring that his - toric investment, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wasyliw: This centre was pledged in 2016.

It's 2022, yet almost nothing appears to have been accom- plished. It's just another broken promise by this gov- ernment. Rather than flow the money when activity was ac- tually happening, they transferred $15 million out of public coffers over two years ago, with nothing to show for it. I'll table the de partment briefing note which shows that the government transferred $15 million on March of 2020. Two and a half years later, next to nothing has been done. Why did the minister transfer $15 m illion for a project which hasn't been done? Mr. Goertzen: So, I'm actually sympathetic to the member.

I know that he's a part-time MLA, so he may not have noticed that there was a pandemic going on at the time and there are a number of projects that were delayed. But what wasn't delayed was the commit ment from our government to the arts and sports and culture communities across Manitoba –in Winnipeg, in rural Manitoba. They've been asking for many years. And, of course, they didn't get funding when the NDP were in government for 17 years. They asked for support from this government.

Not only did this gov ernment offer that support through a $100- million program, but gave them re - cord historic support to bring forward those important cultural programs in our rural communities. And what did the NDP do when they saw that support? They voted against it, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

158 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, maybe it's a little unfair to have this part-time minister answer this question, but while this gov ernment was cutting across the board, they transferred–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Wasyliw: –$15 million out of the gov ernment's coffers in March of 20 20, and they have got next to nothing to show for it. It was promised in the 2016 election. It was included in the Manitoba's –sorry, in the minister's mandate letter in 2018 and 2020.

But where is it? Next to nothing's been done. Why did the minister transfer $15 million for a project that hasn't been done? Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, even Dolly Parton was working 9 to 5; this member shows up at noon at best. This is a government that made a historic invest- ment. The pleas of community saying, we want more money for sports, for arts and for culture, fell on deaf ears for 17 years when the NDP were in government. This Premier (Mrs. Stefanson), that minister delivered historic $100-million funding. All we heard from the NDP was, no, we're going to vote against it, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Home-Care Scheduling System Malfunction Impact on Service Delivery and Workers MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Mr. Deputy Speaker, earlier this month I raised the concerns of home-care workers in the WRHA. New tools have been deployed that cut the time that they can spend with their clients. It means less care. It's putting an enormous load onto workers who are already dealing with challenges in this pandemic. Yesterday, it was reported that these new tools broke with a software malfunction, resulting in many people missing their appointments.

Why did this happen, and why has the gov ern- ment rushed a system that's not working for clients or workers? Hon. Scott Johnston (Minister of Seniors and Long-Term Care): To the member's issue that she brings forward, yes, there was a temporary issue, and that was resolved very, very quickly, as identified by the health regent. And, Madam Speaker, we–or, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we continue to review all of the situations and the protocols that are in place to ensure that things like that don't happen. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a follow-up question. [interjection] Order. Order.

I'm asking the members who are chirping at each other, please, to quit. MLA Marcelino: Mr. Deputy Speaker, earlier this year, the WRHA reported a large increase in cancelled appointments–even worse than the early days of the pandemic. The home -care system is already overloaded. There's not enoug h workers to keep up and the PCs are forcing home-care workers to spend less time with clients. And now, the software supporting the system broke, resulting in people missing more home -care appointments.

Why hasn't the PC gov ernment addressed work- ers' concerns and staffed up home care to address the needs of Manitobans? * (14:30) Mr. Johnston: Our gov ernment is going to fix the flawed system that the NDP initiated. We're going to continue to work towards esta blishing a home -care system that fulfills the needs of Manitobans. We have indicated on several occasions that aging at home is something that Manitobans are looking to do, and we are going to accomplish that by a renewed home-care system. MLA Marcelino: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitobans know that what the minister just regurgitated is com- pletely untrue.

Manitoba used to be a shining example of what home care could be across our country, and it can be that again with this new NDP government coming in. Mr. Deputy Speaker, thousands of Manitobans are missing their home-care appointments. There are not enough workers to address the need, and, once again, this government's reliance on private health has not made the system stronger, it has weakened it. The scheduling tools that the WR HA has deployed are pushing workers out of this profession, and then the

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 159 software broke, resulting in vulnerable people missing their appointments. Why won't this gov ernment make the necessary public investments to improve home care in Manitoba? Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Johnston: As I'd indicated, our government will address the needs of Manitobans. And that's what the seniors strategy is all about, and that's what we're continuing to do, is identify and address the problems. As I mentioned, the home -care system with no accountability that the NDP government put in place is absolutely ridiculous.

But we will fix the problem. We will fix the problem. And the member from Notre –or the member of Notre Dame continues to say, you don't need to review the problem, you don't need to review the study, according to what she says in Hansard. Well, I'm telling you what, we're reviewing it. We're going to come up with a plan that makes sense for Manitobans. Non-Disclosure Agreements RHA's Ability to Blacklist Workers Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I was recently contacted by a nurse in Manitoba who, after refusing to transfer an elderly patient–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lamont: –is facing dism issal, a non- disclosure agreement and a multi -year ban on working or even volunteering in an entire health region. They can work anywhere else in Manitoba be- cause they've done nothing wrong except refuse to follow an order that would put a patient's safety at risk. They're being blacklisted for doing the right thing. And our –at our com mittee hearing on NDAs, we heard of RHA blacklisting more than once. Can the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) or Health Minister explain why RHAs are allowed to blacklist as a form of retaliation at all and what they're doing to immediately end this practice?

Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): As it relates to non -disclosure agreements, the member opposite will know–and I ap- preciated the presenters who came to com mittee and gave their stories, very heartfelt stories. But when it comes to non-disclosure agreements, the Law Reform Com mission is seized of that issue. They intend to not only take public feedback, but also report in the new year in terms of a –the right way forward for Manitoba when it comes to non-disclosure agreements. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a follow-up question.

Mandatory Overtime for Nurses Request to End Practice Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I recently spoke with a nurse who said all they wanted is to be treated with the respect and under standing because of the meat grinder this government has put them through for the last six years: cuts, freezes, closures, waves of layoffs–and they all agree it's never been this bad. The recruitment bonuses this gov ernment an - nounced for nurses, of $10,000 over 10- year service, is unlikely to ever be collected.

That's because, with mandated hours, nurses are going to burn out and never collect it, because the intensity of ICU and ER nursing with long shifts and long, non- stop crises requires respite. Expecting a nurse to work full time when they're going to be forced to work overtime to 12- , 16- or 20-hour shifts is unworkable. Mandatory overtime is driving nurses out of the public system: When is it going to end in Manitoba? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I was pleased to join our Premier on November 10th to announce the largest single invest ment in our public health system, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, $200- million investment. And we are moving to end mandating overtime, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The incentives that have been rolled out thus far is just a glimpse into the discussions we are having with the Manitoba Nurses U nion, the colleges and many other stakeholders. We are around a table of solutions because we want to end mandating overtime in this province. Respiratory, Flu and COVID Cases in Children Request for Measures to Reduce Viral Spread Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, the Children's Hospital emergency room has large numbers of children coming in with respiratory syncytial virus, influenza and COVID infections. More measures are needed than have been used so far to stop the viral spread. Will the Premier act today to (1) better protect children in child care and early -childhood education, at least ensuring the staff who are sick don't have to

160 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 come in by covering their salary for the days that they're sick; and (2) to consider protecting children in schools by mandating mask use by students and staff under conditions where there's significant evidence of viral spread; for example, with more than 10 per cent of children being absent with infections? Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson)– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): I'd like to thank the member from River Heights for the question.

As the members knows, and as everyone in this Chamber knows, we're working quite closely with our education and early childhood education de partment and all our educating–educator partners across this great province of ours, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We work quite closely, as well, with Public Health and all the stakeholders to make sure that our No. 1 priority is the safety and the success of our students and our staff. We're following the advice of Public Health, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and that's where we're going to continue to do. Provincial Nominee Program Improvements to Program Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Mr.

Deputy Speaker, our gov ernment is very proud of the Manitoba Provincial Nominee Program created by the PC gov - ernment back in 1998. With time, this program needs modernization. Can the Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration expand on the actions he is under - taking to modernize the best prov incial nominee program in Canada? Hon.

Jon Reyes (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): In our recent Speech from the Throne, our government is focusing on making life more affordable for Manitobans, including new - comers, as we've welcomed more than 16,000 new - comers last year to Manitoba, the home of hope. We are proud of our MPNP program, created by a PC go vernment back in 1998, and now, under the leadership of this Premier, is modernizing the pro- gram to meet the labour market needs in Manitoba.

The Immigration Advisory Council hosted 14 pub- lic consultations throughout the province and received feedback from thousands of Manitobans on how to improve and enhance the MPNP program. While thousands of Manitobans took

part in these sessions and shared their feedback, I did not see the members from the NDP caucus take the time to show us and share their feedback. They didn't show up. For 17 years, the NDP took no interest when it comes to immigration. They made new comers wait for two to three years to have their applications processed– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired. Indigenous Reconciliation Strategy Timeline for Development Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): The Throne Speech was a missed op portunity to set firm targets to bring forward a recon ciliation strategy by the PC gov ern- ment.

The Auditor General found that the PC govern- ment failed to live up to their legal responsibility–and again and again, I say, a legal responsibility to do so– and that PC gov ernment have no plan for when they will implement one. Can the minister tell us when he will put forth a reconciliation strategy in Manitoba? Hon. Alan Lagimodiere (Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations): I was taken back earlier today with the private member's statement by this member who said that, shameful, the path to reconciliation that we've done so far.

That statement made by the op position causes me a lot of concern. When I look at all we've done with respect to reconciliation–he said yesterday in the House that most First Nations do not feel they are part of the political process. That's exactly what I found when I became a minister, and that started under the NDP. They did not feel they were part of the political process, and yet it was an NDP gov ernment that represented them and it was NDP MLAs who represented them in the House. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: The honourable minister's time has expired. [interjection] * (14:40) Order, please. [interjection] Order, please. There's been a bit of burned time, here. I'm going to give the member for Keewatinook one last ques - tion. There was a little bit of time left. Mr. Bushie: That answer was shameful.

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 161 Mr. Deputy Speaker, Brian Pallister did not take reconciliation seriously, yet a year into her premiership, the current Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) has done the same. There's still no reconciliation strategy after six years, and the Province's duty -to-consult framework was sent to Cabinet approval seven months ago, yet is nowhere to be seen. Will the minister outline a timeline for when his government plans on putting forward a reconciliation strategy, and when it might be imple mented, or has the minister's consultation framework been refused by this Cabinet?

Mr. Lagimodiere: I want to state for the House that we are overwhelmed with requests right now from Indigenous and First Nations communities to sit down and talk with us. Everybody wants to be involved, when they felt previously they had no voice. They – there was no chance for them to ever be heard under the NDP. They're happy. When I sit down with a First Nat ion community and I see tears in the–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Lagimodiere: –eyes of the elders, that they're so happy that we have a gov ernment that is listening now, a gov ernment that is engaging, a gov ernment that understands–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Lagimodiere: –and a government that is taking action, I am very proud of that. Those are very emo- tional moments for us and other members of this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS South Perimeter Highway Noise Barrier Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows: Residents of the River Park South community in Winnipeg are disturbed by the increasing noise levels caused by traffic on the South Perimeter Highway. The South Perimeter Highway functions as a transport route for semi -trucks travelling across Canada, m aking this stretch of the Perimeter especially loud. According to the South Perimeter Noise Study conducted in 2019, the traffic levels are expected to increase significantly over the next 20 years and backyard noise levels have already surpassed 65 decibels.

Seniuk Road, which runs alongside the South Perimeter, contributes additional truck traffic causing increased noise and air pollution. Residents face a decade of construction on the South Perimeter, making this an appropriate time to add noise mit igation for South Perimeter to these projects. The current barriers between the South Perimeter Highway and the homes of River Park South residents are a berm and a wooden fence, neither of which are effective at reducing the traffic noise. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the minister of Transportation– Infrastructure to consult with noise specialists and other experts to help determine the most effective way to reduce the traffic noise and to commit to meaning- ful action to address resident concern; and

(2) To urge the Minister of Transportation to help address this issue with a noise barrier wall along residential portions of the South Perimeter from St. Anne's Road to St. Mary's Road and for River Park South residents. This petition is signed by Schee Park, Kris MacLaren, Keith Kaderle and many more Manitobans. Hearing Aids Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: A hearing aid is a battery-powered electronic de- vice designed to improve an individual's ability to perceive sound.

Worn in or behind a person's ear, they make some sounds louder, helping people hear better when it's quiet and when it's noisy. People who suffer hearing loss, whether due to aging, illness, employment or accident, not only lose the ability to communicate effectively with friends, family or colleagues, they also can experience un - employment, social isolation and struggles with men- tal health.

162 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Hearing loss can also impact the safety of an individual with hearing loss, as it affects the ability to hear cars coming, safety alarms, call 911, et cetera. A global commission on the state of the research for dementia care and prevention released an updated consensus report in July 2020, identifying 12 key risk factors for dementia and cognitive decline. The strongest risk factor that was indicated was hearing loss. It was calculated that up to 8 per cent of the total number of dementia cases could potentially be avoid- ed with management of hearing loss.

Hearing aids are therefore essential to the mental health and well -being of Manitobans, especially to those at significant risk of dementia, Alzheimer's, a disorder of the brain affecting cognition in the ever - growing senior population. Audiologists are health -care professionals who help patients decide which kind of hearing aid will work best for them, based on the type of hearing loss, patient's age an d ability to manage small devices, lifestyle and ability to afford. The cost of hearing aids can be prohibitive to many Manitobans, depending on their income and circumstances.

Hearing aids cost on average $995 to $4,000 per ear, and many professionals s ay the hearing aids only work at their best for five years. Manitoba residents under the age of 18 who require a hearing aid, as prescribed by an otolaryngologist or audiologist, will receive either an 80 per cent reimbursement from Manitoba Health of a fixed amount for an analogue device, up to a maximum of $500 per ear, or 80 per cent of a fixed amount for a digital or analogue programmable device, up to a maximum of $1,800.

However, this reimbursement is not available to Manitobans who need the device who are over the age of 18, which will result in financial hardship for many young people entering the workforce, students and families. In addition, seniors representing 14.3 per cent of Manitoba's population are not eligible for re - imbursement, despite being the group most likely in need of a hearing aid. Most insurance companies only provide a minimal partial cost of a hearing aid, and many Manitobans, especially retired persons, old- age pensioners and other low-income earners do not have access to health insurance plans.

The Province of Quebec's hearing devices program covers all costs related to hearing aids and assistive listening devices, including the purchase, repair and replacement. Alberta offers subsidies to all seniors 65 and over and low-income adults 18 to 64 once every five years. New Brunswick provides coverage for the purchase and maintenance not covered by other agencies or private health insurance plans, as well as assistance for those for whom the purchase would cause financial hardship.

Manitobans over age 18 are only eligible for support for hearing aids if they are receiving Employment and Income Assist ance, and the reimbursement only provides a maximum of $500 an ear. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the provincial government to consider hearing loss as a medical treatment under Manitoba Health.

(2) To urge the provincial government to provide income-based coverage for hearing aids to all who need them, as hearing loss has been proven to be essential to Manitobans' cognitive, mental and social health and well-being. Signed by Roy Gerylo, Nellie Gerylo, Diane Daignault any many other Manitobans. Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the f ollowing petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Prov incial Road 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher River Cree Nation and surrounding communities. The road is in dire need of substan tial repairs.

(2) The road has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven driving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

(3) Due to recent popula tion gross in –growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Prov incial Road 224 will continue to pose a hazard to the many Manitobans who use it on a regular basis, and

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 163

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement the appropriate repairs using public funds as quickly as possible. This petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Ekosi. * (14:50) Lead in Soils MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) In December of 2019, the provincial government's commissioned report on lead concentra- tions in soil was completed.

(2) The report found that 10 neighbourhoods had concerning levels of lead concentration in their soil, including Centennial, Daniel McIntyre, Glenem - Chambers [phonetic], north Point Douglas, River Osborne, Sargent Park, St. Boniface, West End, Weston and Wolseley-Minto.

(3) In particular, the predicted blood level–blood lead levels for children in north Point Douglas, Weston and Daniel McIntyre were above the level of concern. Mr. Dennis Smook, Acting Speaker, in the Chair

(4) The Weston Elementary School field had been forced to close down many times because of concerns of lead in the soil and the provincial government's inaction to improve the situation.

(5) Lead exposure especially affects children aged seven years and under, as their nervous system is still developing.

(6) The effects of lead exposure are irreversible and include impacts on learning, behaviour and intelligence.

(7) For adults, long- term lead exposure can contribute to high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney problems and reproductive effects.

(8) The provincial government currently has no comprehensive plan in place to deal with lead in soil, nor is there a broad advertising campaign educa ting residents on how they can reduce their risks of lead exposure.

(9) Instead, people in these areas continue to garden and work in the soil, and children continue to play in the dirt, often without any knowledge of the associated risks.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to take action to reduce people's exposure to lead in Winnipeg, and to implement the recommendations proposed by the provincial government's independent review, includ - ing the creation of an action plan for the Weston neighbourhood, developing a lead awareness com - munications and outreach program, requestioning a more–requisitioning a more in- depth study, and creative–creating a tracking program for those tested for lead l evels so that the medical professionals can follow up with them. And this petition, Mr.

Acting Deputy Speaker, has been signed by many Manitobans. Lead Water Pipes Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) The US government has identified lead water pipes as a clear and present danger to American public health, and President Biden has announced a 100 per cent replacement of lead water pipes in 10 million US homes and 400,000 schools and child- care centres as part of the America's job plan.

(2) Two thousand seven hundred and fifty -five homes in the Elmwood-East Kildonan area have lead water pipes connecting their basements to the City - owned water pipes at their property line. Homes built before 1950 are likely to have lead water pipes running to this connection.

(3) New lead level guidelines issued by Health Canada in 2019 are a response to findings that lead concentrations in drinking water should be kept as low as reasonably achievable, as lead exposures are inher- ently unsafe and have serious health consequences, especially for children and expectant mothers.

(4) Thirty one per cent of Winnipeg's 23,000 homes with lead water pipes connecti ng basements to the

164 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 City-owned water pipes at their property line were found to have lead levels above the new Health Canada lead level guidelines.

(5) The City of Winnipeg has an inventory of which homes and public buildings, including schools and daycares, that have the lead water pipe con - nections to the City water main, and they'll only disclose the information to the homeowner or property owner. The cost of replacing the lead water pipe to individual homeowners is over $4,000.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to imme - diately contact all home and property owners in Manitoba with lead or–water pipes connecting to the City's watermain line and provide full financial support to them for le ad water pipe replacement so their access to clean water is assured and exposure to lead and its health risks are eliminated. This petition is signed by many Manitobans. Punjabi Bilingual Programs in Public Schools MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Mr.

Assistant Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of Punjabi origin contribute a great deal to the social and economic dev- elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

(4) Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs for children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and uni ver- sity level could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction will help cross - cultural friendships, relationships and marriages and prepare young people to be multilingual professionals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. This has been signed by Amandeep Singh, Baljit Singh, Didar Singh and many other Manitobans. South Perimeter Highway Noise Barrier Mr. Jamie Moses (St.

Vital): Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Residents of the River Park South community in Winnipeg are disturbed by the increasing noise levels caused by traffic on the South Perimeter Highway.

(2) The South Perimeter Hi ghway functions as a transport route for semi -trucks travelling across Canada, making this stretch of the Perimeter especially loud.

(3) According to the South Perimeter Noise Study conducted in 2019, the traffic levels are expected to increase significan tly over the next 20 years and backyard noise levels have already surpassed 65 decibels.

(4) Seniuk Road, which runs alongside the South Perimeter, contributes additional truck traffic causing increased noise and air pollution. Mr. Andrew Micklefield, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair

(5) Residents face a decade of construction on the South Perimeter, making this an appropriate time to add noise mitigation for the South Perimeter to these projects.

(6) The current barriers between the South Perimeter Highway and the homes of the River Park South residents are a berm and a wooden fence,

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 165 neither of which are effective at reducing the traffic noise. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure to consult with noise specialists and other experts to determine the most effective way to reduce the traffic noise and to commit to meaningful action and address residents' concern.

(2) To urge the Minister of Transportation to help address t his issue with a noise barrier wall along residential portions of the South Perimeter from St. Anne's Road to St. Mary's Road and for River Park South residents. This petition, Mr. Deputy Speaker, has been sign- ed by many, many Manitobans. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Okay, I do believe we have a virtual member intending–the honourable member for Burrows. Please go ahead. * (15:00) Punjabi Bilingual Programs in Public Schools Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows: According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi. Thousands of Punjabi new comers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of Punjabi origin contribute a great deal to the social and economic dev- elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi newcomers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation. Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs for children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and uni versity level could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

Punjabi bilingual instruction will help cross - cultural friendships, relationships and marriages, and prepare young people to be multilingual professionals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. This petition has been signed by Amandeep Brar, Gurbhagat Brar, Navjot Hundel and many, many other Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba. The petition–the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of Punjabi or igin contribute a great deal to the social and economic dev- elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and languages. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

(4) Manitobans have many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs for children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and university level could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction will help cross - curricular friendships, relationships and marriages,

166 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 and prepare young people to be multilingual profes- sionals. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. And this has been signed by Pushpinder, Vishaldeep, Sukhanpreet Singh. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Are there any other petitions? Yes, I do see another petition. The honourable member for Maples–The Maples.

Sorry, if I could just ask the honour able member from The Maples to unmute. We cannot hear anything that you're saying. Mr. Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): Can you hear me now? Mr. Deputy Speaker: There we go, we can hear you now. Please go ahead. Mr. Sandhu: I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of Punjabi origin contribute a great deal to the social and economic dev- elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

(4) Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available [inaudible] including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual programs fo r children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at college and uni versity levels could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction would help cross-cultural friendships, relationships and marriages and prepare young people to be a multilingual profes- sional. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. This has been signed by Gagandeep Buttar, Shivrupreet [phonetic] Gill, Amandeep Kaur and many, many other Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Are there any other petitions? Seeing none, orders of the day, government business. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Pursuant to rule 34(7), I'm announcing the private member's reso lution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honour able member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Wishart). The title of the reso- lution is Calling on the Federal Gov ernment to Strengthen Bail Provisions to Address Rising Violent Crime Rates. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been announced by the honourable Government House Leader that, pursuant to rule 34(7), the private member's resolu tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honour able member for Portage la Prairie. The title of the resolu- tion is Calling on the Federal Gov ernment to Strengthen Bail Provisions to Address Rising Violent Crime Rates. * * * Mr. Goertzen: We're interrupting the Throne Speech debate today to call second reading on bills 4 and 3. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been announced that the–by the honourable Government House Leader that we will be interrupting Throne Speech today to call second reading on bills 4 and 3.

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 167 SECOND READINGS Bill 4–The Minimum Wage Adjustment Act, 2022 (Employment Standards Code Amended) Mr. Deputy Speaker: We will now proceed, as announced by the honour able Gov ernment House Leader (Mr. Goertzen), with second reading of Bill 4. * (15:10) Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development (Mr.

Nesbitt), that Bill 4, The Minimum Wage Adjustment Act, 2022 (Employment Standards Code Amended), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I table the message. Mr.

Deputy Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Labour, Consumer Pro tection and Government Services, seconded by the honourable Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development, that Bill 4, The Minimum Wage Adjustment Act, 2022 (Em ployment Standards Code Amended), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. The honour able minister –Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I–and the message has been tabled. Mr. Helwer: I'm pleased to ri se again to provide comments on Bill 4.

This bill is part of the implemen- tation of a planned increase of Manitoba's minimum wage to approximately $15 an hour by October 1st, 2023, as was announced in August of this year. In response to a period of extr aordinary inflation and unusual economic circum stances, consul tations on the minimum wage were held this summer with the Manitoba Labour Management Review Committee. Now, we've heard from many others since then, both in business and in labour.

A minimum wage that is reflected of the current economic realities facing Manitoba and other juris dictions is ap propriate and necessary, and a phased-in approach will ease burden on businesses adjusting to the change. This bill brings the minimum wage to $14.15 on April 1st, 2023. From there, the indexing formula that ties minimum wage increases to changes in the con - sumer price index, or CPI, for the previous year is anticipated to bring Manitoba's minimum wage to approximately $15 per hour on October 1st, 2023.

Tying the minimum wage to economic indicators maintains purchasing power for both staff and pro - vides stability for businesses. This bill, along with the pre-established indexing formula and recently created regulation-making powers for ye ars of extra ordinary inflation will help keep Manitoba's minimum wage sustainable in the years to come. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Questions Mr. Deputy Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: the first question by the official opposition critic or designate; subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties; subsequent questions asked by each indepen- dent member; remaining questions asked by any op- position members. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. The floor is open for questions. MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Certainly, we've had these conversations previously with this g overnment and with this minister about the minimum wage.

So, we know that the cost of living is growing beyond what the minimum wage increase can support. Why does the gov ernment not immediately raise the minimum wage so that workers can survive? Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Labour, Consumer Protection and Government Services): Well, we went through consultations with the Labour Manage- ment Review Commit tee and we heard from both business and from labour. They could not agree on a recommendation, and where we've ended up is part - way between their recommendations.

We also –we recog nize that some members opposite want to see the minimum wage go much higher and, indeed, some of their friends are talking about 18-, 15-dollar wage in Manitoba, which would drive a lot of busi nesses out of business, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And we recognize the hardships that busi - ness has gone through during the pandemic, and there is–there are supports in place that we put in place for this increase for small businesses under the number of 20 staff. So, we recognize the impacts that it's had –we've had on– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

168 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I note, as I did in my Throne Speech reply, that the number of people needing help at Winnipeg Harvest has essentially doubled in the last several years. With this increase in need and, obviously, people on low income being im portant, one would hope, to the government, had–did you consult with people at Winnipeg Harvest with regard to this decision? Mr.

Helwer: So, the consultation role is the Labour Management Review Com mittee and we task them with consulting and with labour and with manage - ment, busi ness, to see what the recom mendation would be. These are wa ges paid by small busi ness, large busi ness and across the scale, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And when you understand that there has been several hardships throughout the pandemic, that's why this government moved on affordability package, that we made sure that we could get other supports to Manitobans, even though Manitoba is seen as a low - cost environment in which to live.

We understand that there have been impacts on the entire economy through the pandemic and more since then, and it is a challenge– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired. Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): So, it's clear that this government only started its process of increasing the minimum wage after it was announced that Saskatchewan would raise its minimum wage higher than Manitoba's, and thus shaming the gov ernment into actually taking action on minimum wage. They're on track now. They increased the minimum wage with this bill. My question is: Why is it going so slow?

Why did it take so long for this government to take action? Why are they moving so slow with increasing the minimum wage? Mr. Helwer: Well, it's up to the opposition members whether they hold the bill up or not. That's my–not my responsibility. We'd like to see this move through the Legislature. And perhaps the member opposite is better than the Bank of Canada on forecasting inflation. I'm not sure. Perhaps that's what he's suggesting, is that he knew what inflation was going to be this year, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Obviously, we look at–[interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr.

Helwer: –what inflation is happening and we reflect that in legis lation. Obviously, the members don't want to listen to anything, Mr. Deputy Speaker. They think that they know better than busi ness– [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Helwer: –they know better than labour, obvious- ly, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We listen to our–the individ- uals that we consult with, and– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired.

MLA Lindsey: The minister talks about how he con- sulted with labour and with busi ness, but he didn't actually consult with them; he consulted with the Labour Management Review Committee and he split the difference on what was recommended there. But did the minister actually go out and ta lk to any people that are working for minimum wage? Did he actually listen to people that can't pay the rent, can't buy food? Did he talk to any of those people that his miserly approach to the minimum wage is directly affecting? Mr. Helwer: Well, I take issue with the member's words opposite.

This is the largest increase in minimum wage in Manitoba history, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as a reflection of the un precedented times that we are facing in Manitoba. And indeed, I heard from many Manitobans. I spoke to business owners; I spoke to labour; I listened to people that are, indeed, working for minimum wage, or used to work for minimum wage. I listened to all kinds of Manitobans as we went through and we listened to what Manitobans would like to see. I heard from small businesses that expect that this is going to have an impact of $150,000 on their salaries, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

That is, indeed, an impact on small business. Mr. Moses: You know, when the minister proposes getting to $15 by next year, I wonde r if the minister really realizes that $15 an hour was what people were saying living wage was back in 2015 or 2016. I don't know if the minister would want his salary to go back to what it was, you know, back in 2015, '16, around then. But a lot of folks , with all inflation, know that $15 an hour doesn't cut it in terms of meeting the living wage standard.

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 169 So, will the minister actually put forward a bill and raise the minimum wage to get up to that living wage level? Mr. Helwer: You know, we reflect what we hear from Manitobans and what we hear from the Labour Manage- ment Review Committee, Mr. Deputy Speaker. * (15:20) Manitoba is a province that tends to not have extremes. We tend to be in the middle of the pack on many circumstances, and that's where this will get us. [interjection] Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Helwer: Obviously, members opposite don't want to hear any of these answers. [interjection] Mr.

Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Helwer: They don't like it. They know that Manitoba is a low-cost place to live in Canada. We're very fortunate to live in Manitoba. We're very fortunate to live in Canada, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and this is a process that we're following through after listening to Manitobans on how we are going to gradually increase the minimum wage without trying to put businesses out of business. MLA Lindsey: I just want to pick up on some thing the minister just said: that raising the minimum wage will put businesses out of business.

Other jurisdictions–Alberta, BC–raised the min - imum wage to $15 quite some time ago, and yet we know that businesses didn't go out of business. So, why does the minister get hung up on this myth that paying people a living wage will put busi - nesses out of business? Why doesn't he pay attention to what's going on in other juris dictions, where we know that busi ness continues to grow, even though they're paying $15 an hour for quite some time? Mr. Helwer: Well, I'd thank the member opposite to not put words in my mouth. This can–this may put businesses out of busi ness; it may be the final straw for them.

I don't know if the member opposite has a spare $150,000 floating around. Perhaps he does. He thinks that's small money. That's big money to these busi - nesses, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We're trying to find a balance here for people that are working, for businesses that employ those people, for labour, and make sure that we can continue to value those employees and keep the busi nesses in business, provi ding the services that Manitobans need. Mr. Moses: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the cost of food, the cost of housing, the cost of trans portation have all greatly increased over the past few years.

This in - crease to minimum wage doesn't keep up with that. And so I'm asking, when it comes to the afford - ability crisis, does the minister see a need to even further increase the minimum wage, just so that people don't fall through the cracks when it comes to this affordability crisis? Mr. Helwer: That is why our government has stepped forward on our affordability systems that we put in place for Manitoba. We're helping Manitobans make it–make through this issue, Mr. Deputy Speaker. But perhaps the member opposite doesn't have those problems. I don't know.

But we're listening to Manitobans and making sure that we can give them supports, and minimum wage is one of those things that we can do to make sure that they can weather this storm, Mr. Deputy Speaker. These are un precedented times. I've never seen them in my life. Perhaps the members opposite have; I suspect not. And we don't know if this will continue or where we're going from here, but we want to make sure that we have some stability. Mr. Moses: Does the minister have infor mation on– you know, obviously, the minimum wage would in- crease some Manitobans and it'd give them a boost.

Does the minister have stats on how many people this would take from, you know, working in poverty to working above the poverty line; that this particular increase to minimum wage would increase out of poverty? Mr. Helwer: Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when I look at what happened in past gov ernments, indeed, when we were op position and the previous NDP gov ern- ment raised the PST –and they considered raising it twice–not just once, but twice–and the impact that that had on people that were on– low-income earners and people that were on minimum wage; that had a much bigger impact.

We're keeping things moderate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, making things more affordable for Manitobans, unlike members opposite who not onl y looked at increasing the sales tax by 1 per cent, by–but an addi- tional per cent, and didn't care what that impact would be on Manitobans.

170 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 Mr. Moses: I think the reason the minister was unable to answer the question of how many Manitobans would be raised out of poverty by this minimum wage increase is that because, quite frankly, there's not that many, if any at all, because, quite frankly, this in - crease doesn't do enough to raise people out of poverty. With this bill, Manitobans who work full time will still be living under the poverty line.

So I ask the minister: Will he consider making a change to minimum wage so it is high enough so that people who work full time won't have to live in poverty? Mr. Helwer: Well, I do take issue with what the member said. He said there's no Manitobans living in poverty. Obviously, we know that that was the case under the NDP, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and we have raised children out of poverty. It's been the hard work of the Minister of Families (Ms. Squires) to make sur e that we can ensure that people are fed in Manitoba.

That is the hard work that she has been doing to make sure that we raise those children out of poverty, unlike what we saw under the NDP, where they were driven into poverty and all of their supports taken away, Mr. Deputy Speaker. MLA Lindsey: The answer we just heard from that minister is simply astounding. He thinks that by more people accessing a food bank, that they're somehow lifted out of poverty.

Does the minister understand that people earning minimum wage today cannot afford to pay their bills because the price of food is going up astronomically, the price of gas has gone up, price of hydro has gone up, the price of every thing has gone up substan tially more than what this minister's willing to put the minimum wage up? Does he not understand people can't afford to live at the wage that he's proposed they live on? Will he do the right thing– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The honourable member's time has expired. Mr. Helwer: Well, again, the member putting words in my mouth. That is, indeed, not what I said, Mr.

Deputy Speaker. We're working hard to make sure that we have an affordability package for Manitobans. Increasing min- imum wage is one part of that affordability package that we can ensure that Manitobans have some value, have some ability to lift themselves out of poverty. We want to make sure that Manitobans are living in an environment where they have supports. And we have put those supports in place, Mr. Deputy Speaker, unlike what we saw under the NDP government, those dark days where those supports were taken away and not available to many Manitobans, and they were driven to food banks.

We did see that, indeed, and we're finding a path to help those individuals. Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): I'm just won- dering, I mean, how did the number of $15, how was that picked? It might seem like a pretty basic question. If I'm not mistaken, that was what the NDP committed to in the 2019 election. We committed to, I think, we believe–we collected to committing to $15 in 2021, and moving beyond to a living wage. So, I'm wondering–this is nowhere near a living wage; how was the number $15 reached, or $14.15? Mr.

Helwer: Well, the $14.15 was a path that we found from the Labour Management Review Commit- tee, somewhere between the labour suggestion and the management suggestion of where they would like to be. And getting to $15 is something that we see when we do surveys looking at what other provinces have available for minimum wages. And we can see that once we get to that $15 range, we'll be in the third, fourth, fifth highest minimum wage in Manitoba, Mr. Deputy Speaker. And some - times we lead the country in some things; some things we follow the country.

In minimum wage, we tend to be somewhere in the middle, and this will get us back into that ballpark of mid -range for Manitoba and I think that's where most Manitobans– Mr. Deputy Speaker: The minister's time has expired. The time for questions has expired. Debate Mr. Deputy Speaker: The floor is open for debate. MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): It's a shame that this minister and this gov ernment continues to disrespect working people in this province. Every chance they get, they take another swipe at working people.

We know, the re search tells us–and it would tell this government, if they paid attention –that the min- imum wage that they've presently got in place is leaving more and more Manitobans accessing food

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 171 banks. If they paid attention to so many respected anti- poverty groups, if they paid attention to groups that are actually trying to help lift people out of poverty, they would know that what they proposed here yet again falls far short. * (15:30) One of the members asked earlier where the $15 an hour came from. Well, it was actually the rallying cry of workers throughout North America quite a number of years ago. We know that $15 an hour today is not the right answer.

We know that $15 an hour by 2023–by the minister's own admission, may or may not actually get there, might get close–we know that by 2023, that number is woefully in - sufficient. Mr. Dennis Smook, Acting Speaker, in the Chair The minister is quite happy to say that he's satisfied with Manitoba workers being the second lowest paid group of minimum wage workers in this country. The minister is quite happy to leave so many hard-working Manitobans behind.

What we've seen from this gov ernment is giving tax breaks that pre dominantly help their wealthy friends, probably their wealthy donors, certainly some of t heir wealthy MLAs. What we haven't seen is a government that actually cares about people, that cares about people that are struggling. You know, we talk a lot about people on min- imum wage working full-time hours not being able to survive on what's been proposed for minimum wage. The other problem that we never really talk a lot about is so many of those minimum wage workers aren't working full-time hours.

How does the minister think those folks are going to pay their bills? While he's very concerned about the business sector–make no mistake about it, we need to have healthy and strong busi nesses. He pretty much ignored them during the pandemic too, didn't he? In order to have a strong province, we need to worry about the people in the province as wel l, and this minister fails to do that. We know that other juris dictions raised their minimum wage to $15 a number of years ago. The sky didn't fall. The world didn't shut down.

In fact, believe there was a report I was reading, I believe it was out of BC, that the businesses didn't shut down; they kept going. Sure, there may have been a busi ness shut down. Was it directly attributable to the $15 minimum wage that they implemented? Maybe, maybe not. But that's always the great fear mongering that right-wing gov ernments like this Tory gov ernment have, is if we pay people more money, the world will end, businesses will shut down, the sky will fall. And it's just plain and simple not true, Mr. Acting Deputy Speaker. We know that. The science tells us that.

The research tells us that, that it's simply not true. What it does do is it actually–if you raise the min- imum wage to an actual living wage, which is a wage that people can afford to actually get out of poverty, they can afford to buy groceries. They can afford to buy their kids new clothes. They can afford to live a decent life. They can afford that their kids get educa- tion. So, we know that raising the minimum wage works.

The other thing we know is that, as opposed to the upper crust, who takes their money and deposits it offshore somewhere or hoards it, doesn't like to pay tax on it, hard- working Manitobans that work for wages put that money back into the economy. It grows the economy. It actually helps the very small businesses that this minister thinks are going to land up out of busi ness. It actually helps them, because people that work for wages actually spend their money on things like food at the grocery store. They spend their money maybe going to a movie when they can afford it.

They spend their money buying some new clothes when they can afford it. They spend their money fixing their house, if they're lucky enough to have a house. Unfortunately, what this gov ernment's approach to minimum wage is is to stop home ownership for so many people. Not only does it stop home owner ship, it actually drives more people into homelessness because they simply can't afford to make ends meet working for minimum wage, certainly when they're only working part-time hours. What that does is le ads to the whole gambit of other problems that we see in society.

The crime, the drugs; a lot of that is all related to poverty. This minimum wage holds people in poverty. It does not allow people to get ahead, it does not allow people to ever progress. It does not allow people to send their kids on to university, which this gov ernment doesn't want any - way. They don't want working people's kids going to university; they only want the elite's kids going there. So, they jack up tuition to ensure that, if I'm struggling to get by, I work two, maybe three jobs, my spouse may work a couple of jobs at minimum wage , trying

172 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 to pay the bills and put a little aside so that maybe, just maybe, one day, their kid can go on to university and get a better job than they had; this minimum wage en- sures for so many hard-working Manitobans that that remains a dream. It's never going to be a reality. When the only thing that a hard-working Manitoban can focus on is how they can afford to get their next meal, the dreams of a better life get squashed, and they get squashed by this gov ernment, by this minister. They stifle hard-working Manitobans.

You know, we know that they've supposedly got rent freezes on, but we know that all you have to do is ask for an above -guideline increase and you'll get it. This gov ernment doesn't back up affordable rents, which makes it harder for people earning minimum wage to maintain a place to live. We know that they gave huge tax cuts to a lot of those rental property management outfits that did not pass that savings on to the renters; they took the money and run because that's what they do. They don't reinvest it in Manitoba, they've invested it in another jurisdiction somewhere.

We know that, right now, the price of everything is going up; and if the price itself doesn't go up, we know that the amount of cereal in the box is going down. So, while you may not notice that your min - imum wage paycheque doesn't buy as much, it's the sneaky inflation that doesn't get accounted for in the measure of inflation. So, while I used to be able to buy a box of cereal a week that fed the family, there's less in that box now, so maybe I have to buy two boxes a week. But that number isn't calculated. That's the sneaky inflation that this gov ernment refuses to recog nize, refuses to do anything about.

We've heard about, potentially, somebody maybe at some point in time going to look into the way grocery stores, the way those multi -conglomerate operations are charging people more for their gro - ceries. But nowhere has it said that we're going to look at how much people get for their money at the grocery store. * (15:40) We know that –and we've known for years, this government has known for years –that $15 an hour is not a sus tainable living wage. We know that $15 an hour, which it's not going to be with this legis lation until maybe 2023, just before the election.

I hope the gov ernment doesn't think that people that work for minimum wage are going to be bought off by the increase that th is government is proposing just before the next election. It would be crass to think that that's this government's plan. But people know–people that work for minimum wage know that $15 an hour is not the right number anymore. It needs to be so much higher than that. I've seen reports that have been done by people much smarter than me that talk about what the minimum wage is or should be in different juris dictions across Canada, in different juris dictions even within Manitoba.

And I know that people who work for minimum wage in my constituency face even higher costs than what we see in the city of Winnipeg. We know that those people, when they go to the grocery store, have seen exponential increases in the basic staples of a grocery basket. We know that people in the North have seen their gas bills go up. People, for example, that have to travel between Flin Flon and Snow Lake for em ployment have seen that cost go up dramatically.

We know that a lot of people that work in the very stores that they can't afford to shop in know that what's been proposed here is insufficient to survive on. And members can sit and think they've done the right thing by increasing Manitoba's minimum wage to, yet again, the second last. And I suspect the only reason they raised it at all is because Saskatchewan put theirs up and they didn't like to be beat by Saskatchewan. So, we're second last–whoopee. Good for us.

Not so good when you look at how the inflation rate has gone up prior to the government taking action, so people working for minimum wage were already that much further behind before this gov ernment actually did some thing. And I guess I have to thank them for finally doing some thing with minimum wage. It's just so unfortunate that they've failed to listen to working Manitobans. They've failed to listen to the very people that a minimum wage is supposed to help. They ignored those cries for help. They ignored the pleas for people to be able to afford.

They completely ignored that to make sure t hat their friends that own the grocery store chains con - tinued to make money, and continued to make even more money throughout a pandemic, where working

November 22, 2022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 173 people, parti cularly those who work for minimum wage, found their hours reduced in a lot of cases. We know that people that work for minimum wage couldn't afford to take time off when they were sick, so it spread the pandemic, it spread COVID to other workers. But we also know that it's not just COVID, that there's flu going around right now, that minimum wage workers still don't have paid sick leave.

So, not only can't they afford the basics of life when they go to work every day for minimum wage, now they can't afford to stay home when they're sick, because this gov ernment refuses to act yet again, because it's not their rich friends that have to stay home when they're sick; it's poor, hard- working Manitobans, it's women who are pre dominantly in minimum-wage jobs. And, contrary to what this government spouts, it's not high-school kids trying to earn beer money. It's single mothers. It's immigrant Canadians. It's women.

It's breadwinners for the family that are suffering with this government's miserly increase to minimum wage. They continually talk about myths that–fear mon- gering that the world will end if we pay people a decent wage. And I said earlier, that's quite clearly just not true. Because actually, the people that earn those wages support those busi nesses. They shop locally. They spend their money on the basic necessities of life. So, what could this government have done?

Well, we know that they had a recommendation, although it wasn't unanimous, from the Labour Manage ment Review Committee, because of course management wanted to limit how much money they had to pay. Labour thought the numbers should've been quite a bit higher than where this gov ernment settled, because organized labour still talks to working people. They still understand the basic needs of working people. I asked the minister how many people working for minimum wage he spoke to as part of his process for developing this number.

First he said, well, he talked to some; and then, well, it was some that used to work for minimum wage. We talk to people that earn minimum wage. I talk to them on the street. I talk to them when they phone my office. I talk to them on the doorstep. I talk to them in the coffee shop. I understand where they're coming from,

whereas this government doesn't hang out with those people. They don't understand the plight of people that need to have a decent wage so that they can feed themselves, so that they can feed their kids. What we've seen from this government is a lot of vote-buying schemes, where they issue a cheque to someone–maybe it's on their house taxes–when really and truly, the right answer would've been to just reduce the tax burden on those houses, rather than paying them money that they need, obviously. But they need it every month; they don't just need it once. And that's the part this government doesn't grasp.

So, in their Throne Speech, they failed to address the affordability for Manitobans. They failed to keep Hydro rates low. They failed to take meaningful action on the price of groceries, particularly when we look at the shipping costs for fly -in commu nities, communities that depend on winter roads. I'd like the minister to explain to me how he thinks that anybody that earns minimum wage in one of those com mu- nities can possibly afford to live on $14- and-some- odd cents an hour. Just–the minister ha s no concept of what food costs in those communities.

He has no concept of what the Hydro bills are in some of those com munities when people are forced to live in substandard houses, when people are forced to have 15, 20 people crammed in a house that' s designed for four or five. This minister, this gov ernment, doesn't understand those people; it doesn't understand people that are struggling. It doesn't understand, nor does this gov ernment care about, helping poor people out, which is quite clear w hen we look at what they've done with this minimum wage increase. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, $15 was the answer yesterday, but we're not going to get there until maybe sometime a year from now. Shameful. * (15:50) You know, I could go on for a long time saying how bad this gov ernment is when they fail to recog - nize poor people, when they fail to recognize people working for minimum wage. You know, when this government came to power, Manitoba had the fourth highest minimum wage in the country. Thanks to this government's great management of the economy and everything else, once they introduce this legis lation, Manitoba will have the second lowest minimum wage.

And they're proud of themselves. Shameful. So we've talked a lot about people trying to afford to live. We've talked about them failing renters. We've talked about them giving tax cuts to the rich, which

174 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 22, 2022 don't help people on minimum wage. We've talked about the myth that this–raising the minimum wage to a living wage will drive busi nesses out business. We know that's not true simply because other jurisdictions have done and it didn't drive people out of business. So I think at this point that perhaps maybe I'll cede the floor to someone else who can have another perspective on how bad this government treats people trying to live on minimum wage. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Dennis Smook): Before I re - cognize the next speaker, I'd just like to ask the House to keep the chatter down a little bit. It is getting a little–was getting a little bit loud in here, so please respect whoever has the floor. Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): I first just want to point out we do have some guests in the gallery that have been watching.

I apologize to you for –you had the opportunity to listen to probably one of the most boring presentations ever, and it's not like the after - noon debates are normally parti cularly exciting, as you'll soon see, but question period is probably the most exciting. Unfor tunately, you seem to have missed out on that good fun. But today, I did listen to the member, despite my propensity to perhaps doze off while he's speaking, and I did hear a few of the things he had to say.

I was a little bit bamboozled where he was going because in the question period he sounded like he was certain that $15 was a living wage, and then he was very much certain that it was not, and then he became certain that our gov ernment was doing exactly what we'd been asked to do, and then also certain that that wasn't nearly enough, according to him. So, although he keeps on contradicting himself, I think the –probably the funniest thing was when he claimed that he talked to people who make minimum wage everywhere he goes.

And I assure you that I'd likely do the same, but I can tell you this: I don't ask people if they make minimum wage or not. And this seems like a very peculiar conversation for the mem- ber to be having on public streets and byways and in almost any context to say, hey, by the way, do you make minimum or are you–you know, making a little bit more than that? It's a personal question, it's not one that I'd recommend the member would have, unless, of course, the member's not really telling us what really happens, and he's just making stuff up for the House, I don't know.

But I can tell you that when we introduced–when we brought forward the plan to increase minimum wage to $15–I speak to minimum wage earners all the time. In fact, several of them live with me. My own children are making minimum wage quite often, and I, myself, made minimum wage. And sometimes I talk to myself, too, try not to make too much of a habit of that. But I did speak with people who are affected by this increase –this sub stantial increase to minimum wage, and invariably they wer e very pleased. They were very pleased that we had stood up for them in a way that they really appreciated.

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-6
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 6.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	937e6f115b1e119661da391de0bca9540b057921

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