Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Oral Questions — 15 April 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 17)
2004-04-15
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April 15, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 17
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Before we begin today's session, the Chair wishes again to welcome all
visitors to the public galleries; however, in doing so, I must again remind all
visitors that they are not to participate or to demonstrate in any way, nor to
show approval or disapproval of any proceedings in this House.
On four occasions in this session, including the sitting yesterday afternoon,
the Chair was obliged to suspend the sitting due to disorder which originated in
the galleries. In such matters the Chair, as the presiding officer with
responsibility to maintain order and decorum, has very few options.
The Standing Orders are very clear. Any person who misconducts himself or
herself shall be asked to leave the galleries. As a last resort, the Speaker may
ask the galleries to be cleared and that the House sitting be suspended until
the Sergeant-at-Arms is satisfied that the House can conduct its proceedings in
a manner consistent with our rules on order and decorum.
Finally, the Chair has the option to ask security to identify a person or
persons who consistently interrupt the proceedings and ask security to bar that
person or persons from attendance in the galleries. The Speaker is, however,
very reluctant to bar any person or persons from attendance in the public
galleries. In this regard, I ask all visitors for their co-operation.
Again, on behalf of all members, we welcome all visitors to the galleries and
ask visitors to refrain from any participation that might be seen as showing
approval or disapproval of any proceedings in our House.
Thank you very much.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today we have statements by members and we have statements
by the following members: The hon. Member for St. John's Centre, the hon.
Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune, the hon. Member for Burin-Placentia West,
the hon. Member for Port de Grave, and the hon. Member for Humber Valley.
The hon. the Member for St. John's Centre.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize another record-setting year for the St. John's
Port Authority. Last year, Mr. Speaker, the St. John's Port Authority set
three records. The first record was for gross revenues of $4.2 million, the
highest ever recorded in one calendar year. The second had to do with the 1,100
vessels that utilized the Port facilities during the year 2003. The third
record, Mr. Speaker, concerned the 1.6 million tons of cargo that moved through
the facilities of the Port.
Mr. Speaker, the private sector plays a large role in the revenues received
for the St. John's Port Authority. Congratulations to all of the private
sector companies that utilize the facilities, services and staff of the Port
Authority to grow their businesses and employ Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
As well, I would like to recognize and congratulate the President and CEO of
the St. John's Port Authority, Mr. Sean Hanrahan, and his staff for the
numerous infrastructure improvements made over the last few years. The improved
Port facilities make them financially and physically more attractive for
business to be conducted by both the public and private sectors. The annual
economic input from the Port to the Province is estimated to be $220 million per
year.
I ask that all hon. members join with me in acknowledging the record
performance of the St. John's Port Authority for the year 2003.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Kerri Sheppard, a Grade 8 student
la Hune.
Mr. Speaker, Ms Sheppard performed for the first time in the Annual Central
Newfoundland and Labrador Kiwanis Music Festival. Kerri accompanied herself with
classical guitar and competed in the vocal class - Songs for Movies - age
fourteen years and under - along with fourteen other participants.
Her enchanting performance of Drift Away placed Kerri first in her
group; a tremendous achievement for this young performer. Her classmates,
teachers, community residents and the whole region share her accomplishment and
are very proud of her success.
Mr. Speaker, this was her first ever participation and Fitzgerald Academy's
first ever representation in the Kiwanis Music Festival. I am sure we will hear
more from Kerri and Fitzgerald Academy as they continue their participation in
other musical festivals to come.
I ask all members of this House to join me in extending congratulations to Ms
Kiwanis Music Festival.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to recognize
Ms Melanie Adams of Marystown. Melanie is a former student of Marystown Central
High School and is the daughter of Kurt and Marion Adams.
I would like to extend congratulations to Melanie on being awarded the
Natural Sciences and Engineering Resource Council Doctoral Scholarship in the
amount of $42,000. In its decision, the council cited Melanie for her academic
excellence, research ability, leadership and communication skills. She will
complete her doctoral studies in Biochemistry at Queen's University in Ontario
in 2005.
Mr. Speaker, this is certainly a prestigious award, and speaks again to the
rich talent and ability of the youth in our Province. To be recognized
nationally is an honour in itself. To be recognized through a national
scholarship of this nature speaks to the hope that the council places in
individuals such as Melanie.
Melanie's research will involve investigation into the resistance of
various drugs to different bacterial strains. This type of research is
beneficial to drug companies and individuals who use various drugs to combat
diseases.
Mr. Speaker, I would ask all member of this House to join with me in
congratulating the family of Melanie Adams, who I am sure must be overjoyed with
this achievement, and to Melanie congratulations on this most outstanding
accomplishment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today in this hon. House to pay tribute to the life of Mrs. Elizabeth
Bradbury, who passed away on April 9, 2004, at the grand age of 106.
Mrs. Bradbury was born in Bay Roberts on January 20, 1898, the eldest of
three children. At the age of twenty, Elizabeth married John Bradbury, a Cooper
from Coley's Point. They lived in Coley's Point and she became a
stay-at-home wife and mother of seven children.
Elizabeth supplemented her husband's income by selling vegetables that she
grew in her own garden, and by sewing. She was an accomplished seamstress who
made all her family's clothing. She would draw patterns on brown paper and
make everything from suits to wedding dresses.
Mrs. Bradbury had a deep and abiding interest in the political scene. Her
daughter, Beatrice Bradbury, said her hard-working mother was a go-getter and
would have been a politician had she been born in a more modern time.
I ask all members to join with me in extending sincere condolences to the
family of Mrs. Elizabeth Bradbury.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate a successful sports team from the Town of Deer
Lake on two of their most recent accomplishments.
On February 22 of this year, the Elwood High Girls Basketball Team won the
Newfoundland and Labrador Basketball Association Hall of Fame Cup held in St.
John's. This is a major accomplishment, as the team was ranked number seven
out of eight teams.
The Elwood High Girls Team have competed nationally and internationally over
the past eight years and have represented our Province well.
Mr. Speaker, most recently the team won the 4A's girls basketball
tournament, making them the top high school girls team in the Province. This
tournament was held on March 26 and 27, and the Elwood girls are only the second
team outside the Avalon Peninsula to win this tournament.
This team is coached by Mr. Charlie Barker and Mr. Gerry Gallant. Mr. Barker
is retiring this year and I am sure he could not have received a better
retirement gift from his team.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. Members of the House of Assembly to congratulate
the Elwood High School Girls Basketball Team on their recent success.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Before we begin Question Period today, I must remind all members on both
sides of the House of the need to maintain order and decorum and an atmosphere
that respects the integrity of each and every member. Personal attacks, insults
and demeaning language or actions are never in order in this House.
While Question Period is a time of considerable cut and thrust in a
freewheeling parliamentary structure, disorderly language or actions that are
designed to be offensive to another member should not occur. Question Period is
designed for the asking of questions and for the government to provide answers.
Yesterday, some language and actions, in the Speaker's opinion, did not
serve the parliamentary system well. Each of us, my fellow parliamentarians in
this House, have a responsibility to ourselves and to the House to assure our
comments, both on the record and off the record, conform to the accepted rules
of order and decorum. In this matter, I ask today for your co-operation to make
sure that our Question Period proceeds in a very orderly manner that is
respectful of the dignity of the House and respectful of the dignity of all hon.
members.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House I provided the President of Treasury
Board with the basis of an agreement that could bring an end to the largest
strike in the Province's history, that has been caused by this government.
The components of this agreement include a two-year wage freeze, future
negotiated raises, and the removal of the pension, sick leave, and school board
concessions. I ask the minister, Mr. Speaker: Would he like to provide any final
update to the strike situation before heading into the long-overdue talks that
are going to occur later this afternoon?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not feel that I should discuss things
here in the House today, certainly in light of the meeting, but I do want to say
to the hon. member across, to (inaudible) Premier of this Province who
negotiated an agreement on pensions and joint trusteeship with this Province,
after almost three years in office they still had not done anything about it
because they found it problematic for government, the same problem that was
passed to us, that we are now dealing with, I might add. They had three years to
implement the last contract and they did absolutely nothing on job evaluation,
absolutely nothing on the joint trusteeship, and three years in power to do it.
That is why the problem is here today, Mr. Speaker, and he has to bear the price
for dealing with a great part of the problems we have today in our Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is still good to see that the President of Treasury Board in
more interested in the blame game and the past instead of solving a fifteen-day
strike that he and the one-man show Premier caused by himself - nothing to do
with the past. This is about today and the future. They got elected to show real
leadership and take a new approach.
Mr. Speaker, the question as well to the President of Treasury Board is:
Yesterday, he advised us in this House - he did not want us to ask any
questions, although he went on the radio afterwards and did an extended
interview to talk about the government's position again, and why they need
concessions, but does not want to talk about it in the Legislature -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to get to his supplementary question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The question is this: The minister himself said in this Legislature that he
would be calling the union leader, Mr. Puddister, right after Question Period.
He did not call until after 8 o'clock last night. The meeting is not going to
occur for another hour or so, twenty-seven hours later. Doesn't he understand
that there are growing crises in the health care system and growing crises on an
individual basis in this Province that are occurring by the hour and there
happens to be a strike that is fifteen days old. When is he going to stop
mollycoddling around, walking around as if nothing is happening -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: as if everything is hunky-dory? Let's get to the talks, get
to the resolution, and take it seriously.
Would he like to tell us why it took twenty-seven hours, the fifteenth day
into a strike, before he could look somebody in the eye and try to get a
resolution?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Up to March 31, in negotiations, we were at the table for a number of hours,
and things broke down and things appeared in the public - and I have said this
before - things that we did not think represented what was said at the table. We
were involved in an exchange of proposals and we had a proposal that we
responded to the next day. We had another written proposal the next day, on Holy
Thursday, which we responded to on Good Friday, and we waited five days and got
no response to that proposal.
Mr. Puddister has been in the public asking that we get together and talk. We
responded and I called him, and we set up a meeting for today and he immediately
agreed. When I said the time, he had no objections to that particular time. He
did not raise the issue, and he was pleased that we were going to sit down today
and meet.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to complete his answer.
MR. SULLIVAN: I reserve judgement on the outcome of that until we have an
opportunity to discuss at the table where they wanted to be, where we would like
to be, and get it resolved. It is not in shouting back and forth. It is a
serious time. Mr. Speaker, it is a serious time for our Province, and I am
taking this very seriously. I am going to deal with it on behalf of the people
of the Province, a responsibility that will not be shirked by people here on
this side of the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of everyone on this side of the House
and our caucus, I can tell you that in the best interest of all the people of
the Province we hope that these belated talks this afternoon are successful and
that we have a resolution.
Mr. Speaker, let me ask a question directly to the Premier. In his January 5
address to the people of the Province, the televised address, the Premier
stated, and I quote: We are in very real danger of drowning in our own debt.
He is nodding, Mr. Speaker, that those are his exact words. He also said, and
I quote: We have an evolving financial crisis.
He is nodding again, Mr. Speaker, to indicate that he did say that. He has
since stated publicly as well that we are on the verge of bankruptcy and his
government would lead by example and only spend money on things that are
absolutely essential.
He is nodding again, Mr. Speaker, so the people who do not see him on
televison know that he agrees, that is what he has said.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to get to his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the Premier: Does he still today stand by those comments that he agrees
that he made in the past?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, nobody knows better than the hon. gentleman opposite just how
serious our financial crisis is, because he and his government created it. When
we came into power in November, we had an opportunity to be briefed by the
people in the Department of Finance and the people in Treasury Board and they
told us just how serious that crisis was. Then what we did was, we did the
responsible thing, we went out and hired an independent auditor to review the
books.
They came back in January, Mr. Speaker, with a report and they confirmed our
worst expectations. They confirmed that we were going to have a $15 billion
debt, the highest in the country at the end of a four-year period. They also
indicated that we were going to have a deficit of $1 billion a year. We have
done everything we could to try and control that, to try and deal with it. This
was caused by the hon. gentleman opposite and by the members of his Cabinet at
that particular point in time. Those people who are sitting on the other side of
the House now were part of his government. They, in fact, caused this financial
crisis.
Yes, I do stand by the fact, and I do acknowledge and realize that -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - you did truly create this mess.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, the short answer is that, yes, he still stands
by the comment and they do plan to lead by example and spend money on things
that are absolutely essential, because that is how desperate the financial
circumstance is.
Mr. Speaker, a question to the Minister of Transportation and Works and the
Minister responsible for Aboriginal Affairs.
The commitment of this same government that is in that dire financial strait
that was just reaffirmed by the Premier again today, was to provide ferry
service to the nearest connected road system and to reduce ferry rates. In the
Budget we heard ferry rates going up instead of being reduced, because they have
no money, desperate financial straits, they will only spend money that is
absolutely essential.
Mr. Speaker, in the meantime, in the most recent decision with respect to the
Labrador marine services, they bypassed the nearest road system at Cartwright to
provide - these are the words that the Minister of Transportation has used - a
choice, an option, an alternative to the people, because a small extra
investment of money is worth it.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to finish his question.
MR. GRIMES: My question is: How does the minister match those words with
the ones we just had reaffirmed by the Premier, when MP Lawrence O'Brien is
saying he compares the decision to Marine Atlantic providing choice to
Newfoundlanders to go to Montreal instead of North Sydney. Wouldn't that be
wonderful, because we would not want to stop in Nova Scotia?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: How do they match the two statements, Mr. Speaker, that is my
question?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I think that the statements match perfectly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. RIDEOUT: We, Mr. Speaker, are committed to providing the best
possible freight and passenger service for the greatest number of people in
Labrador, and if that costs a few extra dollars, this government has committed
to do it. That is the choice that we are providing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the scariest thing about that answer is that they probably
believe it; that it matches perfectly. I do not believe it matches for anybody
else in Newfoundland and Labrador who just heard the two circumstances
described.
Mr. Speaker, let me describe it again. The Premier says: No money. We can
only spend money on things that are absolutely essential. We are almost
bankrupt. We have a dire financial circumstance. The minister says: We must
provide a choice even if we spend extra money that we do not have, Mr. Speaker.
The question is this: How can the Premier justify ignoring an independent
study that he had commissioned himself, that he said he would implement with no
politics being played and that it would be the lowest cost option? I bet you,
Mr. Speaker, he will not stand on his feet and answer to the personal commitment
he gave, that the lowest cost option would be chosen.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
How can he sit there - because I know he will not stand and try to suggest
that we are broke: I promise to put in the lowest cost option but I am now going
to support a minister who wants to provide a choice, an alternative and a few
options for people.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, when it is to his
benefit or he thinks it is to his advantage to say so, says we are a one-man
show. When somebody else stands to answer a question that is more particular to
the department, it is is something else, Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the
Opposition cannot have it both ways.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. RIDEOUT: Let me say, Mr. Speaker, that we are very, very appreciative
of the great work that was done for us by the public policy institute of
Memorial University. The Premier made no commitment to implement anything. The
Premier made a commitment to allow the public policy institute to independently
do their work. It is the government's job, Mr. Speaker, to make a decision
after they are provided with those options. Just as it was the government's
job to reject this report in 1997 when the hon. crowd over there were the
government, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to conclude his answer.
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We have made what we believe is the best decision for the greatest number of
people in Labrador. We made it deliberately, Mr. Speaker, and we are going to
fund that decision, despite the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I asked the question of the Premier because it is the Premier's very words
that I was asking about. He personally made the commitment. Mr. Speaker, what is
he now going to say to the people, as the Premier, who have him on tape - and we
will play the tape with his voice, not the Minister of Transportation - play the
tape where the Premier with his voice, in his words, is promising: There will be
no politics. We will use the lowest cost choice. It will be done on the basis of
an independent study. We will not play politics with it. How is he going to
answer that, when instead we have a decision that he now will not even talk
about himself, he is so ashamed of it. He is so defenseless in terms of trying
to defend it. He will not talk about it -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
It is going to cost the people of the Province over $5 million extra dollars,
money that they do not have for striking workers, they do not have for
hospitals, they do not have for schools and they are going to sit there and let
this play out and try to suggest that it is okay and he is keeping a commitment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Aboriginal Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it is clear to all who wants to see -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask for the cooperation of all hon. members. A question has been asked by
the Leader of the Opposition. The Minister of Transportation and Works, and
Aboriginal Affairs is attempting to answer. I ask that he be heard.
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think it is clear to all who wants to see and hear where the politics has
been played on this matter, Mr. Speaker. If we wanted to play politics with this
- if this was strictly a political matter we would have put the whole thing back
to Lewisporte, Mr. Speaker, but we wanted to provide a service that is the best
for the greatest number of people in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the fearmongering
and the rumour mongering and the cost of this service is coming from the
(inaudible).
[Comments from the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Again, I remind people in the gallery that we cannot tolerate any
participation or any noise from the gallery to show approval or disapproval. The
Chair is monitoring things very carefully. Again, I ask you not to show any
approval or disapproval of anything happening on the floor of the House. Again,
visitors are always welcome to attend but you cannot participate.
The hon. the minister. You have about ten seconds left to complete your
answer.
MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Depending on which Liberal and which day of the week it is, Mr. Speaker, they
have the cost going anywhere from $3 million to $5 million to $7 million. I
heard a caller last night who tagged the cost at $15 million. It is ridiculous,
it is ludicrous, it has no credibility. The additional cost will be about
$500,000, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
So the minister admits he did not play as much politics with it as he wanted
to, only as much as he could.
Mr. Speaker, let me ask the Premier directly about another issue, a different
issue, another commitment, another betrayal. The Premier, himself, during the
election campaign, committed to the Labrador Metis Nation that government would
apply the Powley decision to guarantee hunting rights to the Metis people of
Labrador. He has since reneged on that promise and the Metis people have said
publicly that they felt betrayed by this Premier. I think that might have been
the first time that word was used. It certainly, Mr. Speaker, has not been the
last.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to get to his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker, a new question. I am now asking the Premier
a new question on a new issue.
The Premier has stated he asked the Department of Justice to do a review to
see whether or not the Powley decision actually applied, and said there would be
a response by April 12. It is now April 15. Would the Premier like to stand in
the House today, tell us the results of the review, and tell us whether or not
he is going to honour the commitment to the Metis people of Labrador, or are
they still feeling as betrayed today as they felt a couple of months ago when he
had a meeting just to try to save face for a few days?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the Leader of the Opposition wants to inflame
every situation that we are involved in as a government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We had an extremely good meeting with Mr. Russell -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - and officials from the Metis. We also explained to
them that the Powley decision applied to everybody in the country equally. The
Justice Department gave an
interpretation of that. They are following through on
that. We are going through a process with the Metis, which is a very favourable
process, which is a process they have agreed to, and they seem to be quite
satisfied with it. So, that is an up-to-date on where it is. We are doing
whatever we can to work with the Metis people, and will continue to do so
despite your attempts to inflame the situation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The decision to base the Labrador passenger ferry in Lewisporte will cost the
government $1.7 million a year more. The Minister of Transportation and Works
said yesterday, this was a Cabinet decision.
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health and Community
Services. How can she sit at the Cabinet table and deny Alzheimer's patients
proper medication in favour of a politically motivated, unnecessary passenger
ferry service in her colleague's district?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, very much.
I would like to indicate to the hon. member that the Department of Health is
given a budget and the Department of Transportation and Works is also given a
budget. The budget that was provided -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS E. MARSHALL: The budget -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Again, I am asking members for their co-operation. Shouts across the floor do
not facilitate the giving of an answer, and I ask the members again to be
co-operative.
The floor goes back to the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The operational budget of the Department of Health, Mr. Speaker, was
increased by 5.5 per cent last year, which indicates this government's
commitment to the health care of this Province. I say that indicating also that
many of the provinces across Canada are spending around that much in increases
in their health care portfolio, and there is acknowledgment throughout the
system and throughout the country that health care cannot increase at an
accelerated rate; however, with a 5 per cent increase in the budget -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the minister now to conclude her answer.
MS E. MARSHALL: - there is a recognition that health care is a priority
for this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse
au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the hon. minister knows that the government
decides how much money goes into each department within its government, and that
figures can be shifted.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe that the Minister of Health and Community
Services, the former Auditor General, could sit at a Cabinet table and agree to
pay for a report that her government was not going to use, and agree to fund an
unnecessary ferry passenger service for political reasons and leave Alzeheimer's
patients out there in our Province without access to drugs that they desperately
need.
Mr. Speaker, my question is this: I know the minister has a head for
business, but does she have a heart for people?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can assure the hon. member that I certainly do have a heart for people. The
drug program for the Department of Health was increased by $8.6 million this
year -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: - over what was approved last year.
I would also like to remind the hon. member that since she served in Cabinet
she should know full well that money cannot be transferred between departments.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse
au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the hon. minister - just to clarify - I said
allocation. Government can allocate to whatever departments they wish.
Mr. Speaker, this government could have provided for the cost of all
Alzeheimers's drugs for patients in the Province at a estimated cost of $1.5
million per year. Minister, what do you say to those Alzeheimer's patients
whom you are denying critical medications in favour of a unnecessary passage
ferry service in your colleague's district?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
During the past year I have met with a number of individuals, groups and
organizations who have indicated that they would like to see additional drugs
added to the drug formulary; however, given government's financial position we
did add $8.6 million and did add one new drug.
With regard to additional drugs going on to the formulary I would like to
inform the hon. House that we are carrying out a review of the provincial
government's drug program with the hope that we can identify savings to add
new drugs to the drug program.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Under our rotation, I have about time for maybe one question from the hon.
Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, unless he would rather yield the chair to
the member and do our four-minute rotation with the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi first
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the member for recognizing my place in Question Period. My question
is for the Premier, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Premier told the House he instructed the Minister
of Finance and President of Treasury Board to restart talks with the unions, but
the minister is quoted by CBC as saying that if the unions show some flexibility
talks might be resumed. He is quoted as saying the following, "I've got
to understand that there is a willingness, a real commitment to doing something
and getting people back to work, otherwise it is futile."
I want to ask the Premier, what the people of Newfoundland and Labrador want
to know is, is there a real commitment on the part of the Premier and his
government to doing something and getting people back to work in this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi for his question, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, there certainly is a commitment by this government to try and bring this to
a resolution.
As the member is aware, and as all hon. members are aware, this matter had
gone on for some considerable time. In fact, we had put our offer in last
Friday. Five-and-a-half days have basically passed and nothing had happened.
There was basically an impasse. The union have indicated that they were not
going to come back and present another -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
PREMIER WILLIAMS: If the Member for Twillingate & Fogo would just
allow me to answer the question. He gets a chance to ask his own questions.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Again, I ask for the cooperation of all members. The floor is with the hon.
the Premier and I ask that he be able to provide his answer with relative
silence.
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To repeat to the hon. member, we had a period that went by for about
five-and-a-half days when there was an impasse. We felt, as a government, that
we could not allow that to continue any longer. So in discussions with Cabinet,
with our caucus, myself and the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, we felt it was incumbent upon us to try and break that deadlock. That is
why the minister made the telephone call last night to Mr. Puddister -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Certainly, Mr. Speaker.
- with a view to setting up a meeting. They both agreed that the appropriate
time for a meeting was in about fifty-two minutes from now, and we will do
everything we can to try and reach a proper settlement to this dispute.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quid Vidi, on a
supplementary.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Premier also is quoted as saying the government has some room to move on
the monetary issues but, Mr. Speaker, the real question is whether or not this
Premier and this government are prepared to show the kind of flexibility they
are requiring of the unions. Knowing that it is the concessions that are causing
the problem, that pensions will not cost any money during the life of the
agreement and that the joint task force on sick leave has yet to be started and
do its work, will the Premier and his government show the kind of flexibility
that is absolutely required in order to settle this dispute?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The hon. member opposite of course knows that it was the previous government
that has this task force in place, that refused to act on it and did not act on
it for a considerable period of time.
With respect to the details on the negotiation, I would really respectfully
prefer not to discuss them in the House at this particular point in time because
I do not want to do anything to prejudice the negotiations and the discussions
that are going to take place very shortly between Mr. Puddister and officials
from his side, and the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board and
officials from our side. In the best interest of not having that break down for
any reason whatsoever, I would certainly prefer not to discuss it in public
right at this particular moment. I hope he respects that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
I think we have about two-and-a-half minutes.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Justice. The Privacy Commissioner has been
on the payroll since last fall, but the access and privacy act has not yet been
proclaimed; albeit, we have had references to it in the Bluebook and in the
Speech from the Throne.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister. We have 20,000 people on the streets in this
Province today, getting $200 per week strike pay, and yet we have the Privacy
Commissioner, who has been on the payroll getting $5,000 a payday and cannot go
to work because this government will not proclaim the act. Minister, do you
agree with this continuing waste?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I believe the previous government passed
that access to information legislation. I do not know why they did not proclaim
the act, as a matter of fact.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Stand by, the matter is under review. The matter is
under review and the proclamation will take place when appropriate.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Again, I am asking members for their cooperation.
The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
MR. T. MARSHALL: The hon. Member for Twillingate & Fogo should know
that it is his role to ask the questions and it is our role to answer them, and
we will.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
Time for one question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the Minister of Government Services if she is committed to leaving the
office of Petroleum Products and Pricing Commission in the town of Grand
Falls-Windsor? Many indications point to the fact that the office is being moved
either to Corner Brook or St. John's. Can the minister confirm or deny that
her department is preparing to pull the Petroleum Products Pricing Commission
out of Grand Falls-Windsor?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, our government is committed to the Pricing
Commissioner for Petroleum. I am now reviewing that particular commission, and
in the very near future I will give this answer to the House of what my decision
is.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the monthly Public Tender Act
Exemption Reports for March 2003 to March 2004.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure today, to again enter a petition from the people
of Southwestern Newfoundland dealing with the health care facility situation and
the clinic situation in our area. This is the seventh in a series that I have
been provided with by the people of Southwestern Newfoundland.
As we all know, there is a review currently being undertaken by the
department as to the efficiencies, shall we say, of the Western Health Care
Corporation, and the Hay Commission is due to report back sometime in May.
It is quite well know, as well, that based upon what the directors of the
Western Health Care Corporation have said, a lot of communities in Western
Newfoundland may well be about to bite the dust, as it were, as a result of
impending changes. Particularly, I refer to the closure of clinics in the Codroy
Valley area and in the Rose Blanche area which were apparently slated for axing.
Again, all told, this brings the number of signatories to these documents,
seven of which I have submitted, to about 6,000. That is 6,000 lives that will
be negatively impacted if these services that currently exist are downgraded.
I have stressed to the minister before, and I notice she listens intently
when I do present these petitions, that it is already a bare-bones existence for
many of these small rural Newfoundland communities. If this were to happen,
clinics were to be closed and so on, it would be totally devastating to the
people who live in these small communities who don't have the access and the
ability to travel to more urbanized centres which have larger facilities.
Again, I would urge upon the minister that when the time comes, yes, you
might have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to make sure that these services
continue to exist, but I am sure that in your wisdom and your financial
management abilities that the monies that are necessary will certainly be found
to ensure that these services remain intact and that the people affected mostly
by them, i.e. rural Newfoundland, will not be negatively impacted.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: I want to stand today and present a petition on behalf of my
constituents in the District of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, Mr. Speaker, with
regard to the Labrador Coastal Marine Service.
It is no secret, Mr. Speaker, that the people in my district are outraged and
disappointed with the decision that this government has made to take their
ferry, the passenger ferry for Labrador, and move it to the minister's own
district in Lewisporte.
[Commotion in the Gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair reminds all visitors to the Gallery, we welcome you to attend our
Assembly, it is a great honour to have you here but, please, as you exit, would
you respect the order and decorum of the House and do so without shouting, and
that kind of thing. We thank you for coming but we ask you to leave in an
orderly manner.
[Comments from the gallery]
MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry, the House will recess until order can be
restored.
Recess
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Petitions with the House, the hon. the Member for
Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, I believe (inaudible) introduce a petition
(inaudible).
MS JONES: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
As I was saying, I am presenting a petition on behalf of the people of my
District of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair as it relates to the Labrador Coastal
Marine Services.
Mr. Speaker, people in my district are, no doubt, very disappointed and
outraged with the decision that government has made to move the Labrador ferry
to Lewisporte. They have, certainly, expressed their views and their opinions
but they also feel that they have been betrayed by this government. They feel
that when they had a conference call back on November 26 with the Premier of the
Province and he committed to them, in that conference call, that he would honour
the recommendations in the report that the consultant was providing, and they
took him at his word. They believed what they were being told. They only hoped
that the authors of the report would do a full and thorough evaluation and
reflect what was in the best interest of the people. That is entirely what the
consultant group did.
The consultant group did recommend that the Sir Robert Bond would
operate between Cartwright and Goose Bay as a passenger ferry for the people in
that area. It also recommended that the Trans Gulf would operate from Lewisporte
to Black Tickle, ports to Nain as a freight vessel for Northern Labrador. That
would be for a period of three years, at which time Lewisporte would cease
operations and all operations would be based out of Cartwright. That was the
recommendations of the consultant. But, as we heard yesterday, Mr. Speaker, from
the minister's reply in Question Period to my colleague, the Member for
Torngat Mountains, is that the consultant's report meant absolutely nothing.
He stood on his feet yesterday and said: What government will be dictated by a
consultant's report? But, they were not the words that he used when he and his
government and his Premier went out and paid $110,000 to Memorial University to
have that information collected and have those recommendations provided to them.
What is even more insulting, Mr. Speaker, is when the minister got up a
couple of days ago and said the people in Labrador were wrapping themselves in
the flag again. Well, I take great exception to that and so do the people of my
district. They have a right in a democracy to make their views known, to go out
and advocate for issues that are important to them. Mr. Speaker, they expect
honesty from their government. They expect that they should be able to believe
and trust the words that are being said and the information that is being given
to them. Mr. Speaker, my people, not only did they lose a marine service that
will be the cost of over 100 jobs in my district and probably the closure of
twenty-six businesses, but they also know the money that will be used to pay for
this study and for part of the cost of running the service into Lewisporte will
come out of the Labrador Transportation Fund; a fund that was earmarked for work
in Labrador.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has elapsed.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move, Motion 1, that this House do approve the budgetary policy of the
government.
MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1.
I do believe that the speaker who adjourned the debate is not available to
speak to finish it up this afternoon, so I think we will go to the government
side.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My understanding, though, is that whoever stands first is the one who gets -
I think we had made arrangements for the Member for Torngat Mountains to go.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess it is an honour to stand and speak in this House today. I cannot say
it is an honour to stand and speak to the Budget.
Mr. Speaker, before I get to the Budget I want to touch on the Labrador
Marine Service. During Question Period the other day I asked the Minister of
Transportation and Works, and the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs a question. He
came back and said the reason why he did not travel to the north coast of
Labrador was because I had an illness in the family. Mr. Speaker, that trip was
planned on February 2, 3 and 4. I informed the minister and his staff that they
could proceed without me. They came back and said: No, we would like for you to
be there. What the minister did not say the other day, Mr. Speaker, is that the
trip was rearranged for March 4 and 5. Only a day prior to travelling to the
north coast my office called to confirm that things were on, only to find out
that the trip was cancelled. His office did not even call me and let me know
that the trip was cancelled.
Mr. Speaker, I guess we look at this marine service now as being, the people
on the north coast again are second choice. I can say that, Mr. Speaker, because
if the Sir Robert Bond did not go to Lewisporte then the Trans Gulf
would have gone out of Lewisporte. No ifs, no buts, about it; but, because of
where the Sir Robert Bond brings more benefits than the Trans Gulf ,
cherry-picking was done. I use that word because I believe there is honesty
behind it.
Again, if the Sir Robert Bond was not put back in Lewisporte, the
people on the North Coast of Labrador who depend upon the freight service more
than anyone else, would have gotten their wish. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, there
were eight options lined out in the report that this government paid $150,000
for, every option indicated that the Trans Gulf sail out of Lewisporte.
The minister said yesterday: If the Member for Torngat Mountains can come back
and tell me that his people are more happy with a fourteen-day service as
compared to the seven-day service, I would say to the minister that if you would
have taken the time to consult with the people in my riding, Sir, and if you had
read that report - it is black and white - that is what they wanted.
Now, Mr. Speaker, a container is going to be stationed in Lewisporte -
companies are going to go down with X number of boxes for Cartwright, for Mary's
Harbour, for Goose Bay, for Makkovik, and it is all going to be put in one. When
it gets to Cartwright, that whole container is going to have to be unloaded and
sorted.
This is what happened last year, and the service this year is going to be no
different. Plus the fact that the storage space in Cartwright does not have the
capacity to hold three containers let alone ten or twelve.
I can say to the minister again that we got pictures of it last year. It was
very clear from the people who spoke in Cartwright that they saw the freight for
the North Coast sitting on the dock, in the elements, not even covered.
Mr. Speaker, the minister spoke of the support he had. Well, MP Lawrence O'Brien
whom the now Premier, who was the Leader of the Opposition, talked about so much
last year, MP Lawrence O' Brien has come back and said, "This lack of
respect for Labrador..." - shown by this government - "...is gutless
and appalling".
"O'Brien is especially disappointed that the Premier, who stood up for
the Labrador Transportation Fund when the previous administration proposed
abolishing it..." - now this Premier and this government - "...is now
siphoning money out of the fund for political reasons."
"This decision amounts to $600,000-a-year - at least - as a make-work
project for Lewisporte, at the expense of Labrador transportation
priorities."
Mr. Speaker, he also said, "Two years ago, Premier Williams condemned
Roger Grimes for, in his words, raiding the Labrador Transportation Fund'."
Now the MP says, "Is it any better to raid that fund for the blatant
political interests of a PC district on the island?"
The minister also spoke, but before I get to the Member for Lake Melville, I
want to say thank you to the Member for Labrador West who stood up and had the
honesty to say that we in the Upper Lake Melville area and in Labrador West will
use the Sir Robert Bond mainly for recreational purposes. It is the
people on the North Coast of Labrador who are totally dependent upon the freight
service, and this government chose not to do that.
By the way, Mr. Speaker, the minister said the other day that he had the
backing of the Member for Lake Melville. Well, he might, but let me go back to
October 16, 2002, in a letter written to the Member for Bellevue, who was the
Minister of Transportation at the time, and it goes, "The Town Council of
the Town of Happy Valley-Goose Bay wish to express their concern with government's
decision to reassess your 1997 commitment to base the ferry service in
Cartwright, Labrador. We feel with Cartwright being the base for the ferry
service this will enhance the transportation system for all of Labrador. The
tourism potential alone will show many increased benefits to our community. With
the ferry terminal in Cartwright we feel that the Labrador freight and ferry
service, along with the road connection to Southern Labrador, we will all see a
much improved transportation of goods and services and access for the travelling
public. This will allow for a longer transportation season for the people living
in Labrador. We feel that the economic benefits that will accrue to Labrador
will be tremendous and request that the port of Cartwright continue to be a
priority for the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador." With every best
wish, John Hickey, Mayor, Happy Valley-Goose Bay.
Mr. Speaker, again, I know that most of the members who are new here and
sitting back, they do not understand the conditions and circumstances that the
people in my riding have to face. I can say to every one of them that their
Cabinet cheery-picked. I will say it again. They cherry-picked, because there
are more benefits for Lewisporte by putting the Sir Robert Bond there
than it is by having the Trans Gulf . If, by some chance, the Sir
Robert Bond was not put back in Lewisporte, then they would have given the
North Coast exactly what the transportation committee had suggested.
Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Budget, for the first time since I have sat
here in 1996, nothing with regard to the Labrador agenda - and I am glad to see
that the Minister Responsible for Labrador Affairs walked in - nothing was
outlined in the Budget with regard to a commitment to Labrador - none.
Mr. Speaker, there was no mention of Aboriginal Affairs or the need to
address the social problems that plague my riding. I can say in this House today
that I am not proud when I say that we have more social problems on the North
Coast of Labrador than anywhere else. Media reports will confirm that, and to
see that this government has not made any commitment to address these problems
shows their lack of concern for Labrador. Maybe it is true what Mr. O'Brien
said, that they are gutless and appalling.
Mr. Speaker the Metis nation - the Premier went out and campaigned and
promised the Metis Nation that, oh yes, we are going to deal with you, we are
going to work with you. Now he has gone and has changed his mind completely.
I guess the biggest thing that I found appalling in the Budget was the part
that they announced new RCMP officers for Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the RCMP was
approved by the Liberal government almost a year ago.
Mr. Speaker, do you know what is most appalling about this? That this
government went out and spent $150,000 on a wasted report. Do you know what they
did to the people on the North Coast of Labrador?
MR. WISEMAN: (Inaudible).
MR. ANDERSEN: Yes, for the Member for Trinity North, I can tell you what
your government did. You turned around and cut $140,000 to take four Aboriginal
constables away from the North Coast of Labrador. Mr. Speaker, that is gutless.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. ANDERSEN: That is gutless, Mr. Speaker. I can say to the Member for
Trinity North that if he stood more and spoke for his people, and showed he was
a man, then he would not be referred to - the center fold for trust magazine
that he is so affectionately associated with.
Mr. Speaker, this government took $140,000 out of their Budget and took four
Aboriginal constables from the North Coast of Labrador.
I can say to the Member for Trinity North, you can shake your head all you
want, because I can guarantee you that neither you nor anyone over there should
be proud of what the government just did
The Voisey's Bay monitor, the Combined Councils of Labrador - and I can say
to the Minister of Natural Resources that the Combined Councils of Labrador and
the Town Council of Happy Valley-Goose Bay wanted the monitor at arm's length
from government. By the way, Mr. Speaker, the sitting Member for Lake Melville
was promised a job as monitor last year but he declined to take it.
Mr. Speaker, we have seen the Department of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs,
an office given to the people in Labrador, torn apart, and so far seven jobs
have been taken from there, right where the Member for Lake Melville sits, in
this House, in his district - seven jobs already gone.
Mr. Speaker, we saw the children in Labrador who wanted an auditorium. Up
until February, the town council and the people in Happy Valley-Goose Bay were
told by the minister and this government that the money was in the account. I
listened with great interest today, Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Health and
Community Services said, well, you cannot transfer money from one account to the
other. Then, if the money for the children to build that auditorium was there in
February, where did they transfer it? Where did it go? Another broken promise,
another way that this government here have turned their back on the people.
Mr. Speaker, there is no talk in this Budget of retention and recruitment.
When we look at the isolated communities of Newfoundland and Labrador, that have
a hard time in attracting nurses and teachers and other professionals, Mr.
Speaker, to know that this government had nothing in the Budget shows that they
have no concern when it comes to rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It shows that
this government, by not putting in any bonuses for retention and recruitment,
have no concern and are gutless when it comes to rural Newfoundland and
Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest as the Minister of Finance gave
his Budget and he made this comment. He said: We are going to provide health
care services to all people in Newfoundland and Labrador, within driving range
of their home.
I will repeat that again, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Finance said: We are
going to provide health care services to every person in Newfoundland and
Labrador, within driving range....
Well, Mr. Speaker, I challenge any member on that side of the House to tell
me how someone from Nain or Makkovik are going to drive to Happy Valley-Goose
Bay to have an X-ray or to see a doctor, that most other people around here take
for granted. I challenge them, Mr. Speaker. Again, talking of one part of the
Province and forgetting parts of Labrador and certainly the rural communities.
Mr. Speaker, they talk about the $2.2 million for the courthouse. It is
ironic that last Friday in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, I took pictures of the
courthouse that the Liberal government and I, as the Minister of Labrador and
Aboriginal Affairs, helped put out a press release that we were going to build.
I took pictures, and this government turned around and took credit for it.
Mr. Speaker, this government outlined that they were going to hire additional
social workers for Labrador. Yet, the Minister responsible for Human Resources,
Labour and Employment cannot tell the people in this Province and in Labrador
where they are closing their offices. Imagine, Mr. Speaker, the minister cannot
tell the people where she is going to close these offices. So, how can they turn
around and say they are going to hire more social workers when they are going to
close those offices down?
By the way, Mr. Speaker, they had in their Budget $500,000 for additional
social workers in Labrador. Well Mr. Speaker, I will tell you, when I was the
Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs we entered into an agreement with
the federal government where they asked us if we would hire additional social
workers for the Aboriginal communities in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the agreement
is signed, it is there, that they will reimburse the Province every cent for
salaries, for travel, and for office space. Now, if this government put in their
Budget $500,00 for additional social workers and if they are hiring them for the
Aboriginal communities, then this is $500,000 that they put in their Budget, Mr.
Speaker, just to cook the books. Because, Mr. Speaker -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. ANDERSEN: No, I will tell him again. The previous Liberal government
entered into an agreement with the federal government where we would hire
additional social workers for the Aboriginal communities in Labrador, at which
the federal government would pay for the salaries, the office space, the travel,
everything that is required for these people to do their jobs. So, if these are
the same social workers that this government is talking about, where the
government has agreed to pay for 100 per cent of all the expenses - they put
$500,000 in their Budget - than, Mr. Speaker, I can guarantee you, they are
cooking their books.
Before I sit down, Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that, I guess with the
people in Labrador, we feel very disappointed with the Budget. We feel very
disappointed. As I outlined, Mr. Speaker, the previous government gave people -
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services, I do
believe on a point of order.
MS E. MARSHALL: Yes, a point of order.
I wanted to address an issue that was raised by the hon. member with regard
to the additional funding for the social workers. Yes, that is fully provincial
money and we will be working with health Labrador to determine where those
social workers will be assigned.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Is the member speaking to the point of order or continuing debate?
MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, I will continue with my debate because I am
sure that I will ask questions on that in the House of Assembly in Question
Period.
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair rules that there is no point of order, but a point
of clarification. The Chair asks the member now if he will continue his debate
on the Budget.
MR. ANDERSEN: I will go on, Mr. Speaker, because it is pretty difficult
for me to understand how a government is going to close HRE offices across this
Province, and they don't know which ones, yet at the same time they are going
to go out and hire more for Labrador when they are going to close some offices
in Labrador.
I guess it just goes to show that -
MS BURKE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the Minister of Human
Resources, Labour and Employment.
The hon. the Minister.
MS BURKE: A point of order or a point of clarification, that the Human
Resources and Labour Employment offices that will be closing do not hire the
social workers for Labrador. That is from a different department.
MR. SPEAKER: Again, there is no point of order.
The Chair recognizes the Member for Torngat Mountains to continue with his
debate.
MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, I think it is quite obvious to the people who
are watching today about this Budget.
Mr. Speaker, for me, I find it very difficult when the past government could
do things for my riding.
I want to talk about the schools that were built on the North Coast of
Labrador. We built four schools up in the riding of Torngat Mountains. I can say
to every member here, that if you had walked into these schools prior to them
being built, then I can say to you that there are school boards on the Island
that would not have used these schools for a storage shed let alone a
schoolhouse.
Mr. Speaker, I guess -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has now expired.
MR. REID: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, very briefly. As someone who was born and bred
and a proud Labradorian, just as people on the other side are proud
Newfoundlanders, I am very disappointed with the Budget. It outlines nothing for
Labrador. Mr. Speaker, I honestly fear for rural Newfoundland and Labrador and
particularly for the rural communities in my riding. I hope that we can get the
ministers, I guess, to certainly address some of the major issues that we see
are going to confront us.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure I will have time later on, and I thank you for the
opportunity to take
part in this debate.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as often as the phrase, honour and privilege, may have been used
in this House over the years, I can honestly say that it has never been felt
more sincerely as I stand here today and say that it is, in fact, an honour and
a privilege for me to stand here as the representative of St. John's North to
give my maiden speech, to which I am sure all members will listen attentively.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDGLEY: I come here, Mr. Speaker, with a varied background, having
spent some eighteen years in education, during which time I spent some time in
universities down through the United States and here at our own Memorial
University, probably only to learn that there is no place as accurate for
language as here in this Province, because we would say that I pitched in those
universities in the States for a short time and that is an accurate statement,
in fact, of what happened. It was just pitching.
My experience in teaching was varied as well, having spent a couple of years
teaching on the west coast of the country, out in British Columbia. On the other
extreme, I have spent three years in the district of my colleague from
Burin-Placentia West, as a school board supervisor, and travelled from Lamaline
to Terrenceville, and even had the pleasure of visiting remote schools - I am
not sure if they are still there - out in Southeast Bight in Petit Forte.
From there, Mr. Speaker, I spent some thirteen years in the business field
and then spent three years as an assistant to one of our Members of Parliaments,
so I come with varied experience to this position but I believe that to be a
good thing because a variety of experiences - if, in fact, we learn from them -
serve you well and give you a better understanding of the concerns that your
constituents will, in fact, bring to you.
As I stand here, Mr. Speaker, there is no question that there is a surge of a
variety of emotions from, I guess, opposite ends of the emotional spectrum. On
the one hand, there is a feeling of pride at having accomplished a personal goal
and, on the other hand, I find it to be a tremendously humbling experience.
Humbling because, as a representative of the people, you have been put here,
naturally, by those who voted for you but also by those who work for you, and
you only hope that you can live up to the faith and trust that those people have
placed in you.
At this time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all the members of my
campaign team, those who worked hard for me. As some may know, my campaign was a
little longer than most; but, to those who worked on my behalf and who gave me
their support and encouragement during that time, I extend my heartfelt thanks.
I would also like to congratulate all the members of this House on their
election or re-election, and wish them all well during this term of office. I
would also like to thank my wife and two children for their support as well.
I would especially, Mr. Speaker, like to offer my gratitude to the voters of
St. John's North, for their overwhelming support and their vote of confidence
which they gave me. My commitment to them is to work hard on their behalf and to
provide them with good - no, Mr. Speaker - with excellent representation,
because they deserve nothing less.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDGLEY: Mr. Speaker, as we listened to His Honour the
Lieutenant-Governor deliver the Speech from the Throne approximately a month
ago, and as we saw the Budge Speech being delivered, it was clear that the
challenges that face this Province and this government are indeed multiple and
in some cases monumental. Rather than feel daunted or overwhelmed by those
challenges, I personally was encouraged by the clear vision to recognize these
challenges, the willingness to face them, and the commitment to do something
about them.
Mr. Speaker, I noted with interest over the last few weeks, and during the
discussions and the debate that have been held in this House, that oftentimes
members on the other side would say that was their initiative; it was an
initiative of their Administration. While I normally would not purport to speak
on behalf of my thirty-two colleagues over here, Mr. Speaker, in this
circumstance I feel confident in saying that if - and indeed that is a very big
if - there were any of the courses of action that have been outlined in the
Throne Speech or any pieces of legislation that we are enacting were originally
conceived by the previous government, then I say with some assurance that we are
delighted. We are overjoyed to be now in a position to act on those initiatives.
Mr. Speaker, the District of St. John's North, as with most districts in
the Province, is a district that contains people from right across the social
continuum, in terms of age, income, beliefs and the various other social
criteria. While there are those who enjoy the luxury of wealth, and I am sure
the problems that come along with that wealth, there are also very many families
who work hard from payday to payday to maintain a household, or who live on a
modest or fixed income. Unfortunately, there are many also who depend in part or
entirely on social supports for their housing and/or for their income or the
other basics of daily living. It is for these people, Mr. Speaker, for whom I
would like to speak briefly at this time.
When I listened to the Speech from the Throne, I was heartened by the fact
that this government recognized that poverty is such a significant concern and
made it a high priority for our term of office. Likewise, Mr. Speaker, when the
Budget was read, I was heartened to see that provision was made for those whose
single family income or family income is so low that they just cannot make a go
of it. We have made provision that they, as of the 2005 tax year, will pay no
provincial income tax. This is indeed a positive note, but the real tragedy is
the fact that poverty, especially child poverty, is still such a significant
issue on the national and even more so on the provincial level.
Some may recall the promise that was made some years ago by the federal
government, when they made a commitment to substantially reduce or even
eradicate child poverty by the year 2000. Not only has this target been missed
by a wide margin right across the board, but for the people here in this
Province, as was pointed out in the Throne Speech, what is truly alarming, truly
scandalous, and a cause of shame right across the board, is the fact that
according to the National Council of Welfare, Newfoundland and Labrador's
level of child poverty is the highest in the country.
I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that St. John's North has its share of those
children, and my personal guarantee, my personal commitment, is to work hard on
behalf of those children and those families during my term.
Mr. Speaker, the children of this Province are the poorest in Canada, while
our federal government spends upwards to $2 billion because they stubbornly
refuse to acknowledge the fact that their gun control was ill-conceived and
unmanageable. In the most recent fiasco, Mr. Speaker, they have spent upwards to
$100 million to line the pockets of their political friends and supporters.
My intention, Mr. Speaker, is not to target our federal government as being
solely to blame for the fact that there are so many children in this Province
who live in poverty, because I am sure that right here, at home, various
governments have, on occasion, spent recklessly or selfishly the public funds,
the funds of this Province. I listened a few minutes ago to the Member for
Torngat Mountains refer to a list of expenses that have been made by Progressive
Conservative governments over the years. I am sure that members on this side of
the House could point over there and say that expenditures were made by Liberal
administrations likewise.
Mr. Speaker, I would say at this time that the people in this Province are
fed up with the blame game. They want government to get on and spend wisely,
spend judiciously, spend transparently, act on their behalf, and to stop
pointing fingers at each other and playing the blame game.
The point must be made, Mr. Speaker, that we are a part of the Canadian
Federation. We have a right to be there. We are fully entitled to a fair and
equitable treatment as a Province: a Province that did bring, and is bringing, a
great contribution to the table of Confederation. We deserve to be at that
table, enjoying the meal, and not sitting on the floor like some household pet
begging for the scraps that someone else might decide to throw our way.
Mr. Speaker, it is one thing for a government not to be able to provide
adequate services because they do not have adequate finances. It is quite
another thing to have the money but to simply lack the will to do the right
thing. Unfortunately, I am not sure that the will presently exists in Ottawa to
make money available for some of the real needs of the people of this country. I
say the will is not there because there has been a consistent refusal to
re-examine and revise the formulas that are presently in place to determine the
allocation of funding to the provinces. Not only is the will not there, but the
exact opposite seems to be the case. Just a few months ago the federal Finance
Minister, Minister Goodale, was heard to speak in terms of popping the champagne
and celebrating because the economy of Ontario, its fiscal capacity for the year
2003 was down and therefore that the government in Ottawa would not have to pay
out as much in equalization funding to the provinces. This is hardly the
attitude that should exist in a co-operative federation, a federation in which
the parts, regardless of their size, should be valued.
We need only look to the most recent example, when the same Finance Minister
at the federal level put $150 million more into the equalization fund and our
share in this Province, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, regardless of
our need, was a mere $4.8 million, roughly 3 per cent.
Mr. Speaker, this Province has been one that has lobbied hard and strenuously
for a change in the five-province formula for equalization, for that formula to
be changed to include all ten provinces. This would be a move towards
eliminating the imbalance in the formula and, for Newfoundland, that would mean
an additional $150 million on an annual basis. What a difference that would make
not only to the people of St. John's North but to the people throughout the
Province. Such an adjustment would drastically change the end result of
equalization. It would, in fact, produce a result much more in line with the
goal of that whole process, namely to equalize or bring the so-called have-not
provinces closer in financial terms to those provinces which are fortunate
enough to be deemed the have provinces in our federation.
Under any existing formula, whether it be equalization or the other transfer
payments, for Newfoundland and Labrador, as long as such a formula is based on
population, it will be a formula for failure, a recipe for ruin. Mr. Speaker,
this recipe for ruin is a simple one. As a base, you have a constant use of our
non-renewable resources with little or no return. You add to that a heaping
number of people forced to move because they cannot find employment, thus
reducing your population which, in turn, triggers further reductions of the
funding from Ottawa. Certainly, I would not want to be as cynical as to say that
this formula for failure, this recipe for ruin, has been deliberately devised by
our federal government as a method of holding this Province back or keeping us
down and making sure that Newfoundland and Labrador remains in a distinctly,
unmistakably, disadvantaged position. However, Mr. Speaker, again, one has to
wonder about the will that exits in Ottawa to change, especially if such a
change might have some negative effect on one of the larger provinces; provinces
that have been responsible, in large measure, for giving the governing party in
Ottawa its seat of power and returning them to office. Perhaps it is one of
those unfortunate cases of politics taking preference over people, but, Mr.
Speaker, sometimes I believe that if politicians had the convictions to do the
right thing, to focus on the needs of the less powerful and the truly needy,
then good things in a political sense might naturally follow.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure that most hon. members are familiar with
section 36(2)
of the constitution of our country, but it is at the core of this argument that
I make today, and it is so important that it does warrant repetition.
Article
committed to the principle of making equalization payments to ensure that
provincial governments has sufficient revenues to provide reasonably comparable
levels of public services at reasonably comparable levels of taxation."
This is the constitution, Mr. Speaker, of our country. It is not something
written on the back of a cigarette package or on a napkin in a restaurant. This
is what governs us, Mr. Speaker, what we live by. But, I would submit, this is
one clause in the constitution that is either being ignored or badly
misinterpreted because the truth, which is glaringly obvious, is that the
present method of equalization leaves Newfoundland and Labrador painfully
disadvantaged while still having a higher level of taxation than many other
provinces. Likewise, Mr. Speaker, in the Atlantic Accord we are guaranteed to be
the principal beneficiary of our resources. Yet, on a regular basis, on a daily
or monthly basis, we see over eighty cents of every dollar going off to the
federal coffers.
Mr. Speaker, I have clearly focused most of my comments today on the federal
government, but I do not want to imply that we are doomed and will always be
dependent on Ottawa for our survival. As a matter of fact, I was delighted
yesterday to read in The Express a column by Avril Baker. I guess this is
a sign of changing times. Last week we had the Mayor of Placentia, former mayor
perhaps, complimenting the Tory government on an initiative. I stand here as a
life-long Tory commending Avril Baker on her column yesterday, but she did, at
the time, take issue with an editorial in a national newspaper that had painted
Newfoundland and Labrador as being bad for the economy because we are dependent
on Ottawa and the have provinces. We are, said the editorial, employment
insurance repeaters. I say: Way to go, Ms Baker, for reminding that editorialist
that the EI rules were changed six years ago to accommodate, not the seasonal
workers of this Province, but to accommodate the auto workers of Central Canada.
She further reminded that editor that this Province exports three times more per
capita than any other province.
This, Mr. Speaker, is the attitude we have to see more of in this Province.
There are plenty of people around to tell you that you are somehow less than
perfect; that you are too short or you are too tall, or you are too much of this
or not enough of that. If you care to listen, you will always be convinced that
the naysayers are right; that you are just not worthy enough. If we, as a
people, are inclined to listen to the put downs and the constant dumb Newfie
characterizations, we may as well always stay in the classification of a have
not province. But, Mr. Speaker, we do not have to do that because, as I have
said, we brought and still bring a lot to the table of Confederation. We deserve
a seat at that table, not under it. So I say to Ontario and Quebec: If you do
not mind, move your chairs, make room at the table because we are coming to sit
down for the meal.
Mr. Speaker, the contrasting attitudes that I have outlined this afternoon
are well illustrated in a recent
article in The Sunday Independent newspaper,
where the hon. Leader of the Opposition is quoted as saying that Quebec will
never reopen the Upper Churchill contract or allow us a power corridor through
its territory and that we should stop tormenting ourselves by trying. The hon.
Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Speaker, had a list of reasons to justify this
conclusion: Anything from Quebec will not voluntarily change; to the courts have
decided the matter; to you will never get financing. I would much rather listen
and think like Geoff Sterling, who is quoted in the same
article and said, that
to give up on the Upper Churchill contract would be absolute nonsense; or our
own Minister of Natural Resources, who said that we are morally obligated to the
citizens of this Province to continue every way we can to seize an opportunity
if it exists.
Mr. Speaker, we do owe it to the people of this Province. They deserve our
best efforts and I know that there are many needs in the District of St. John's
North that can be satisfied by our taking control of our destiny and by fighting
for our place at the table of Confederation.
I would like to conclude my remarks today by quoting briefly from a piece
called: The Penalty of Leadership, written by Theodore MacManus many years ago.
He talks about having the courage to lead and to risk being assailed and scorned
by those in, what he calls, the little world of jeolousy and envy. I will not
read it all, obviously, but I will quote a couple of lines that I think are
pertinent to the occasion. He says, "The reward and the punishment of
leadership are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the
punishment, fierce denial and detraction. The little world continued to protest
that Fulton could not build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the
river to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is a leader,
and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to
equal or to excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy - but only
confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. That
which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of
denial."
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
I remind the member that his time has lapsed.
MR. RIDGLEY: By leave.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. RIDGLEY: Mr. Speaker, and hon. members, we have all been elected to
this hon. House because we are, in fact, leaders. We have the ability to improve
our Province, to make it a better place, to get closer to our rightful place
within the Canadian federation so that St. John's North, and all districts,
will be better served. We just need to have the courage to step up, ignore the
naysayers, think outside the box, risk denial and detraction, and do our job of
being the leaders of this Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. T. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon. the Minister of Justice and
Attorney General.
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
I wish to deal with some remarks made by the hon. Member for Torngat
Mountains. I was not here but I did hear him on the television. If I heard him
correctly - if I did not, I apologize - but I refer to the remarks in which he
said that the government was taking $140,000 out of Coastal Labrador in terms of
policing. Of course this is not correct, as the hon. member well knows.
The government was advised by the RCMP that, for occupational health and
safety reasons, they would no longer have one person at detachments anywhere in
the country. In order to keep the detachments from closing in both Rigolet and
Makkovik, the government agreed to fund additional RCMP officers in both
communities. So, while it is true that the government could no longer afford to
fund the two community policing officers in those two communities, we are
funding additional RCMP officers to make sure that the detachments in both
Makkovik and Rigolet do not close.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains, to that point of
order.
MR. ANDERSEN: Yes, to the point of order. I am sure the minister is well
aware that when we do RCMP officers, there is a formula that is used where the
Province pays so much and so does the federal government. The constabulary
program was an agreement that was negotiated between the Province and the
communities of Makkovik and Rigolet. It was separate from any agreement that the
Province has with the federal government for policing, and it was taken from the
people of Labrador. It was a separate agreement. And you know that too,
Minister.
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair rules that there is no point of order, it is a
point of clarification.
The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is a pleasure for me to get up today to speak to the motion before the
House. I think, as the Government House Leader said, it is a motion to approve
this year's Budget. Mr. Speaker, I can tell you right up front that I
certainly will not be voting to accept this Budget. I think that everybody in
the entire Province believes that this is the worse budget that anyone can ever
remember presented to this House of Assemby. I can say again, I will not be
supporting this Budget and I will not vote for it at the end of the day when it
comes for the vote.
Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of things I would like to say today about the
Budget, but because I am the Education Critic I will try and confine my remarks
to the Education Portfolio.
I listened with interest the other day when the Minister of Education got up
and waxed eloquently about the great things that were happening in education. I
was spellbound because I couldn't believe what the hon. member was saying,
especially in light of the fact of what he said when he was on this side of the
House last year in Opposition, when we talked about teacher cuts and things like
that. I was completely spellbound because I was thinking about the
transformation that had occurred in the members opposite, especially the
Minister of Education. I found it somewhat hypocritical for him to get up and
talk in that way. I hesitate to use the word hypocritical because I have a great
deal of respect for the member opposite, the Education Minister. I think
everybody in this House would agree that he is a nice guy, but you know what
they say about nice guys, Mr. Speaker.
The unfortunate thing about it is that while he may have the children of this
Province at heart, his voice is not being heard in the Cabinet of which he is a
part. It is sad to have to get up here and say that, as I said, about an
individual I have a great deal of respect for. I hesitate to call it
hypocritical, but I don't think that the Premier and the Minister of Finance
listened to him when he made the case for education in this year's Budget.
Neither do I think the Premier and the Minister of Finance listened to anybody
opposite. It is obvious, in sitting here in the last three weeks, that many of
the ministers are now finding out about things in their own budgets that they
didn't know were there prior to the Budget coming down. I guess it is like the
speech that the Premier gave to all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians back in
January when he announced the wage freeze, and members opposite, in his own
government, found out about it the same time that the rest of us in this
Province found out about it, in the Premier's speech on TV. It is obvious that
he does not consult with his ministers nor his caucus.
Mr. Speaker, when I talk about the transformation that has occurred with the
Minister of Education, and the hypocrisy associated with that transformation, I
do not do it without proof. I would like to take you through some of the
comments that the members opposite, led by the Minister of Education, have made
in the last little while, especially in the last year.
Just prior to the election last fall, I had the School Boards' Association
come to me, and one of the questions that they were very interested in - as the
Member for Marystown would know because he was a member of a school board at the
time. He was one of the assistant directors, I believe. He happened to get out
before they cut all of the positions down there. The main question they wanted
to ask me was what I felt about school boards and whether or not, after an
election, a government that we were to lead, would they still be in existence? I
had no problem, in fact, in telling them that they certainly would be there. I
think the Member for Marystown was probably in Gander last spring when I
addressed the School Boards' Association and told them point blank that we
support school boards and we intend to keep them.
When he came to the Tory caucus and met with the now Minister of Education,
and other members across the floor there, guess what these members told the
Newfoundland and Labrador School Boards' Association? They told them
categorically that yes, after an election, your school boards will still be
there, all eleven of them.
That was not bad enough. Then in January, as my colleague from the Bay of
Islands said in the House yesterday, the now Minister of Education was on the
West Coast giving a speech and, when questioned by a reporter out there about
whether or not the school boards would exist after the Budget, he said
categorically: We will not cut the school boards. We will not amalgamate the
school boards.
That is twice in the last few months, but that was not bad enough, Mr.
Speaker. I talked to an individual from my own district last week and I was
informed that the Minister of Education met with the Gander and area school
board, the school board that represents my district, just one week before the
Budget came down, and he told them categorically at that meeting that there
would be no cuts coming to school boards this year. Don't worry about it,
there are no cuts coming this year.
One week before the Budget he said, there will be cuts coming to hospital
boards. We have not seen that yet, but we know they are coming in the next few
months. On three different occasions, the Minister of Education went around the
Province and told groups of individuals, groups who were elected by the people
of the districts around the Province who sit on school boards, not to worry.
Then, one week later, bang, without any consultation with anybody. In fact, I
think the Chair of the Avalon East School Board said yesterday that they were
not consulted. Nobody was consulted. I do not know if the member from Marystown
who sat on a school board was consulted or tipped off back last October that his
job would no longer be there, so it is time for him to leave that position and
run in politics if he wanted to secure a job into the future, but with no
consultation with anyone the school boards were wiped out, Mr. Speaker.
Let me talk about the school boards. In 1997, we brought a bill before this
House to change the education system in our Province and we reduced the number
of school boards at that time because we had three different sets of school
boards, based on religious lines. We had twenty-seven school boards and we
reduced them to eleven: ten regular boards and the Francophone board. We also
made a point that these school boards had to be elected by people who
represented the students and the families in the particular geographical area.
We were concerned at the time that eleven school boards was a rather small
number. I guess the Minister of Education today thought it was a very small
number when he assured school board members around the Province that he would
not cut them this year. Then he went and, with the stroke of a pen - or, I
should not say he. The Minister of Finance sat down with the Premier and
officials from Treasury Board, because I do not think any of the other ministers
had an opportunity to sit at that table and discuss this issue - they were
slashed, no consultation whatsoever - slashed.
What happens, Mr. Speaker? Now we have four boards and the Francophone board
and here - the board in this particular area of the Province now it is going to
go from St. John's to Grand Bank to Bonavista. Just imagine the geographic
area, and it is going to take up approximately 50 per cent of the students in
our Province and it is going to be administered by one board, I think, with ten
members on that board.
To add insult to injury, they have notified the elected representatives in
the Province, who sit on these school boards, that their services are no longer
required and they are going to appoint an interim school board. I read with
interest today, an
article in The Telegram by an individual who sits on
the board here in St. John's, who talked about an anti-democratic movement on
behalf of this party to eradicate the elected representatives on these boards
and to appoint their own. We all know what will happen then. They will pick
their -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. REID: No, no advertising. They will pick their own political cronies
to organize these boards around the Province so that they can push through their
agenda, and their agenda is to centralize and take from rural areas of
Newfoundland and Labrador any vestige of control or any vestige of democracy
that these people are left with so that they can control everything from
Confederation Building. That is very unfortunate.
They talk about how they are going to save money by eliminating these boards.
Well, I ask, how is any board -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask that the member be heard.
MR. REID: Yes, Mr. Speaker, they are not very polite opposite. Every time
I try to speak in this House they heckle me. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, they are
trying to throw me off my train of thought here but that will not work.
Mr Speaker, they are talking about saving money, but I do not know how one
board, for example, for all of the Avalon Peninsula and the Burin Peninsula and
the Bonavista Peninsula, will save money for anybody; because all that will
happen is that you will put a group of individuals in an office somewhere on the
Avalon Peninsula who will have to travel such a great area - and that is not
just here. It is the same all over the Province, so what money will be saved on
the positions that they are going to eliminate will certainly be spent on hotels
and travel.
The thing that is being forgotten about all of this is, the role of that
school board is supposed to be for the benefit of the students in our Province.
Well, I do not think that they were even considered when the hon. members, the
Premier, the Finance Minister and officials in Treasury Board, just slashed and
chopped, and slashed and threw it all out the day before the Budget, because no
one else on the other side - and I challenge any of them to get up and say that
they had a conversation about it prior to the Budget coming down. I challenge
any of them. Anyway, that is talking about the school boards.
Another thing I would like to speak to, Mr. Speaker, today is when the
Minister of Finance stood last week and thought he was eloquently speaking in
the Budget about revitalizing our education system. Two days after, I heard the
Minister of Education talking about the superlative education system that we
have in the Province and that we want to revitalize our already superlative
education system. They wanted to revitalize it.
In the same voice, he chopped the school boards from eleven to five and he
eliminated, with the stroke of a pen, 475 teaching positions in this Province.
Four hundred and seventy-five teaching positions in the Province, and to say
about the savings. Yes, the savings. We will talk about the savings, because the
minister and his group across there - I do not know the appropriate word to call
them over there; highwaymen, I suppose - when they were in Opposition they
talked about every cent that was ever to be saved in education was going to be
reinvested. It says it right in the Blue Book. Any money saved through
redundancies in education would be reinvested in our youth.
Well, Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education has said that on numerous
occasions prior to the election and prior to the Budget, but he walked through
those very doors down there yesterday afternoon, stood in front of the cameras,
stood in front of the media of this Province, and do you know what he said? When
asked a question: Are you going to reinvest the savings from the slashing of
these school boards back into the education of our youth? Guess what he said,
Mr. Speaker? He said: No, we are not going to reinvest it in our youth in the
Province, we are going to invest it in our debt! Now, can you believe that?
After all of the times that the members opposite stood in this House, all of the
times they paraded around this Province, in front of every picket line, in front
of every demonstration, and they talked about reinvesting money back into the
system because the government prior to them had not done enough.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. REID: I will get to that later.
Then, to walk out of this House yesterday and so callously stood in front of
the media and said: No, we are not doing it! We are not investing in the youth
of our Province. We are not going to take the funds that are going to be saved
from the slashing of 475 teaching positions. We are not taking the money which
that is going to save. I think that will net you somewhere in the area of $100
million for 500 teachers. No, that is not going back into the education of our
children. That is going to stuff away to look after the Finance Minister's
perceived Budget deficit - and I say perceived because they inflated it. So
nobody really knows what it is today.
Let's talk about the impact that 475 teaching positions taken out of the
system is going to have on our children. Let's talk about that. We established
the Sparkes-Williams Committee back, I think, in 2001 and we asked them to come
up with some kind of a formula that would allow us to take some teachers out of
the system as enrolment declined, and they came back with a formula.
Well, the first year, our leader right here today - the first year when he
was presented with the figure, I think, of 378 that could come out of the system
- when our leader was the Minister of Education, when he was asked to take out
the 378, or said he could take out the 378, he said: No, Minister of Education,
I am not doing it. He left the 378 in. He considered the impact that it would
have on small, isolated, rural communities in the Province. He knew that all it
would mean is that we would have to double up on classes, we would have to bring
in more computer monitors to take the place of teachers, and he did not do it.
The following year my colleague from Grand Bank had a number that she could
have taken out of the system, 378. You took what, 200? We left those in there.
Last year the same people in the formula said that I could have eliminated, when
I was minister, an additional 378. What did I do? I took out 160. What happens
this year? A minister, who has only been there three or four months, a minister
who condemned me last year for taking out 160 teachers, a minister who said that
one teacher removed from the system was one teacher too many - he said it on
numerous occasions, sitting in that seat right there, Mr. Speaker. Guess what he
did? In one stroke of the pen he eliminated every teacher that we had left in
the system in the last three years. Eliminated everyone of them and more
besides, because he is taking out 475 positions.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I cannot stand here and look at the Minister of Tourism
looking over at me, pointing fingers and laughing at the fact that they are
going to eliminate 475 teaching positions. A minister, I might add, who was a
teacher in rural Newfoundland and Labrador!
AN HON. MEMBER: Exactly!
MR. REID: I find it insulting!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. REID: I find it insulting to have to look at you while you are doing
it.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: He thinks it is a joke.
MR. REID: It is a joke, an absolute joke, like they think everything is a
joke here. We are here talking to the worse Budget that was ever perpetrated on
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and the members opposite, all they have
to do is sit there, laugh, poke fun and interrupt because they do not want to
know the truth.
I do not mean to be angry here, Mr. Speaker, this afternoon but I have been
sitting quietly here for the last couple of weeks listening to those people
opposite.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. REID: There you go!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: Even your own caucus are laughing at that. Even your own
caucus are laughing that you have been sitting quietly.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
They like to do that. They like to interrupt and throw you off your speech
because they do not like to hear it. I have watched this happen for the past
three or four weeks. One of them over there - I will not name him now - I think
he is up now to seventy-nine points of order in the last two weeks; seventy-nine
points of order. When we are on to a good topic - like he has done with me,
throw me off my train of thought. He does that by jumping on his feet looking
for a point of order. He is not going to throw me off, Mr. Speaker, because I
have lots to say.
Let's talk about these classrooms around rural Newfoundland and Labrador.
He is slashing 475 teaching positions but the nice thing that he had in the
Budget, he talked about $500,000 for computer monitors for Distance Education in
rural areas of our Province; like the Minister of Tourism's district, I might
add. He has them up there, lots of them. All it is going to do now is take more
human bodies out of the classroom and put more computer monitors in front of
these students, in the minister's district, in my district and in every
district in this Legislature, I would add, except for those maybe on the Avalon
Peninsula. I find it very distasteful, Mr. Speaker. I find it despicable.
Let's talk about the size of classrooms. I know what the size of classrooms
are in the Province. I, like the minister today, travelled around this Province,
talked to a number of rural schools and had the pleasure of doing so. But, Mr.
Speaker, when I was minister I realized that you could not take all of those
teachers out of the system because I knew - even the 160 that I took out last
year, I fought tooth and nail with my government to leave them all in there.
Unfortunately, we had to take out 160. I will guarantee you, we would never have
taken out 475 with me as minister because I would not have sat around the table
and permitted it; I would have resigned.
Then, the minister today, to get up and talk about the superlative education
system and eliminate these teachers. I find it - the word again - hypercritical;
even though I do not want to use it against today's minister because I know he
is not being heard in his Cabinet and he is not a bad fellow.
Mr. Speaker, before I go on though, I would like to just ask - the minister
is not in his seat right now, but I would like to ask him what he has in mind
for these necessarily existent schools, necessarily existent small schools?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member and remind him again - he knows the rules here very
well - not to refer to members who are not in the House.
MR. REID: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Members have reasons to leave the House for all kinds of
duties, and I ask that he not refer to a member in that way.
MR. REID: I apologize for that, Mr. Speaker. When I had it half out - I
said he was not in his seat, but I did not indicate he was not in the House. I
apologize. I did not mean to do it.
Anyway, we want to talk about the necessarily existent small schools. We have
a number in rural areas of the Province. They are small but they are necessarily
existent because they cannot just jump in a car or in a Metrobus and drive
across town and attend the school. They are isolated. They cannot go to other
schools. I would like to know from the minister and the government opposite what
they propose to do with these schools this year, because they said last year
they were not going to eliminate any teachers in the Province this year but they
just took 475 out. I guess I will wait until we go through the Estimates to find
out what he is going to do with them.
Let's talk about post-secondary education. I can honestly say that I am
proud to stand in this House today and say that I was part of a government that
reduced tuition at Memorial University for three years to the point of 26 per
cent compounded; 26 per cent reduction in tuition at the University. The
Minister of Finance, when he sat over here, used to jump up and down and say it
was not enough. It is not true. There are others lower in the country. They gave
everyone the perception that when he became the Minister of Finance, because we
all knew he was - I am sorry, though; there was another one over there we
thought was going to get it. She is now the Minister of Health. The perception
that he gave people in the Province was that if he became the minister, they
would even slash tuition rates lower. What does he do? He comes into the House
and very proudly jumps up and says: We are freezing tuition at Memorial
University. We are freezing tuition at the College of the North Atlantic
campuses around the Province, but the freeze - no reduction, no elimination of
it. They were even talking about that last year when they were talking about the
Irish model. They even went far - and I think the House Leader over there even
mentioned that one time. He talked about the Irish model and no tuition. So,
what did they do? They froze tuition, but the kicker there, Mr. Speaker, is that
people realize they have asked both the University and CONA to save $2 million
each this year by - what does that mean? They either have to cut services or
they have to raise fees. We will see what will happen at the University and the
(inaudible) -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I remind the member that his time has expired.
MR. REID: Can I have a few more words to -
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I listened very attentively to the new Member for
Trinity-Bay de Verde the other day, and she talked about how proud she was that
she had been working on the mainland of Canada, and how proud she was that the
Tory government brought her home. I have a bit advice for her. She is now on the
back bench looking at the front bench. She is elected. She probably got elected
on the coattails of their Premier, but she is going to have to get re-elected on
her own. The piece of advice is that she should stand and talk to her Premier
and the Minister of Finance about the impact that this Budget is having on the
constituents in her district. She talked about how proud she was that this
government brought her home. Well, I would like to know what she is going to say
to the people in Northern Bay, Old Pelican, Heart's Content and those students
who come this year -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I rise today to participate in our Budget Debate and to speak for the very
first time in this House of Assembly, I am once again reminded of the honour and
responsibility that has been granted to all of us, as representatives of the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I offer my congratulations to all hon.
members in this House. I would like to particularly congratulate our colleague
for Waterford Valley on becoming the first elected Speaker of this House.
The opportunity to serve the people of this Province is indeed a privilege. I
thank the people of my district, Virginia Waters, who have proven to be generous
with their support and remarkable in their enthusiasm. I pledge to honour that
enthusiasm with equal passion and commitment.
Virginia Waters is one of the fastest growing areas in our beautiful capital
city. My mother has often remarked to me that, as a young woman in service here
in St. John's, on her days off she and her friends would often take a taxi off
into the country for a picnic. That country picnic ground is now the most
densely populated district in our Province.
One of the reasons why Virginia Waters has grown and prospered over the
years, Mr. Speaker, is because people from all over Newfoundland and Labrador
and from all over the world were welcome here. As a result, we have a large
dynamic and diverse community. It is a very exciting place to live. Again, I am
deeply honoured to stand here as their member in the House of Assembly.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank my family. I have
many blessings in my life, but the greatest blessing of all is the love and
support I receive in such abundance from my family. They truly make all things
possible for me and I want to honour them and thank them in these my first words
in the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: I also want to thank my campaign team for their efforts on
my behalf during the election process, and for their continuing support. I
pledge to be a strong advocate for our district and for the people of our
Province and to do my very best to make a positive contribution to our way of
life.
With this in mind, Mr. Speaker, I was truly delighted to be given the
opportunity to take on the portfolio of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development.
This department has a crucial role to play in government's plan to enhance the
economy of this Province. Innovation, Trade and Rural Development is the primary
vehicle for developing and implementing a provincial economic and employment
generation agenda, especially for our rural areas. In partnerships with
individuals, communities and businesses and other levels of government, this
department is responsible for creating and maintaining a competitive economic
environment that encourages and supports private sector businesses and
encourages and supports long-term sustainable employment opportunities for
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. An important part of creating that climate,
Mr. Speaker, is ensuring that government's own fiscal house is in order so
that business people and, indeed, all of the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, can have confidence in their investments and have confidence in their
future in this Province.
We all talk and dream, Mr. Speaker, of bringing fellow Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians home to live and work with us here again. I share that dream. Both
my children live and work in Ontario. I am reminded everyday that life is too
short to live it apart from the people we love, but I also know that if we do
not take the necessary measures outlined in our Budget that soon the question
will not be whether we can bring people home but it will be whether or not we
can stay here ourselves. I, for one, Mr. Speaker, along with my colleagues on
this side of the House, intend to stay.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: To do that, we need to grow and diversify our economy and
build healthy, viable communities right across Newfoundland and Labrador.
One of the very first things I have undertaken, as minister, is to determine
if the existing programs and services, right down to the structure of the
department, are accomplishing the goal of effective economic growth. We are
currently in the process of undertaking a complete departmental review,
including extensive staff and stakeholder consultations that have already proven
to be an excellent means of determining what works and what needs to be changed.
Ten years ago government was investing over $20 million a year directly into
business development in this Province. Since that time, former administrations
have slashed that budget to about $2.5 million a year. This was taking place,
Mr. Speaker, when in rural areas of our Province we had, and we still have, the
highest unemployment in the country. We saw thousands and thousands of our
people displaced from the fishery, migrating to other parts of Canada and the
world because they could not find other work here in Newfoundland and Labrador.
While all this was happening, Mr. Speaker, we were being told by the government
of the day that there was nothing unusual happening in our rural communities;
that we had a history, as a people, of leaving for other shores; that it was a
cultural thing. Mr. Speaker, did they really believe that we did not know the
difference? They said that our GDP was growing and our economy was in better
shape than it had ever been before. While that was true for some areas of the
Province, Mr. Speaker, it was still pretty rough going in a lot of places in
Newfoundland and Labrador.
I have listened to members opposite in this House, over the past few weeks,
trumpet their success in growing the economy of this Province. According to
them, things were never so good as when they formed government. One wonders,
despite the daily flow of rhetoric about rural communities, how much they really
understand about the reality of people's lives.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS DUNDERDALE: And a booming economy usually means that the government's
own Treasury is in very good shape.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS DUNDERDALE: The burning question that never gets answered, Mr.
Speaker, is if they truly believe what they say: How do they explain the
financial mess they left behind? A financial mess, Mr. Speaker, that now
severely constrains our ability to increase direct economic development funding.
Mr. Speaker, we know we have to do more with less, and we are prepared to do
that. We have an abundance of resources in this Province, in our waters and on
our land, and we have no shortage of ability in our people. Mr. Speaker, I was
born and raised in Burin. My husband and I raised our two children there before
moving to St. John's in the 1990s. During the years I lived and worked in
rural Newfoundland, I was involved in all aspects of community; everything from
social work to education, from municipal government to social justice issues.
During the Cod Moratorium I had the opportunity as a member - and later as
Chair of the NCARP appeals committee for fishers - to travel the length and
breath of our Province. I heard and saw first-hand the devastation visited on
fishers families and communities by the failure of one of our greatest
resources. All of this, Mr. Speaker, has given me a broad understanding of the
issues and challenges facing rural people in our communities.
Mr. Speaker, I also know the joy and strength that exists in rural
Newfoundland and Labrador. The people of this Province have existed for hundreds
of years on our natural resources, and through a combination of determination
and skill we have managed to thrive in all kinds of difficult circumstances, and
we will again.
There are many organizations and agencies in this Province who are committed
to building local and regional economies. I have already begun a Province-wide
consultation with stakeholders throughout the Province to build partnerships,
identify common priorities and strategies, and focus our mutual resources so
that together we can harness the innovation of our people, create sustainable
industries, capture new employment, new investment and new markets.
Mr. Speaker, despite absorbing our share of the budgetary reductions that
have been essential to get our government's financial affairs in order, our
department has continued to support some of the better programs that were
already in place and have started several exciting initiatives in accord with
our blueprint for the future. We will continue to support the two remaining
programs that will provide direct financial support to business: the Small
Business Seed Equity Capital Program, which will receive $2.1 million, and the
Business Market Development Program, which will receive $500,000.
The department will continue to contribute to the core operational funding of
the Province's twenty R