British Columbia Hansard — Thursday, October 8, 2009

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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

First Session, 39th Parliament o FFicial rePort o F Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari So FF, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Thursday, October 8, 2009 Afternoon Sitting Volume 4, Number 5

Pro Vince o F britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l. Point, obc First Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker o F the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil ......................................................................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Minister of State for intergovernmental r elations ....................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................... h on. c olin h ansen Minister of State for the o lympics and a ctn ow b.c. ....................................................................................................... h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation .....................................................................................................h on. George a bbott Minister of a dvanced e ducation and l abour Market Development ............................................................................ h on. Moira Stilwell Minister of a griculture and l ands ...................................................................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson a ttorney General ...................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of c hildren and Family Development and Minister r esponsible for c hild c are ............................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of citizens' Services and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism and the Public a ffairs bureau ...........h on. ben Stewart Minister of c ommunity and r ural Development ................................................................................................................h on. bill bennett Minister of e ducation and Minister r esponsible for early l earning and l iteracy ......................................h on.

Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of energy, Mines and Petroleum r esources .....................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Minister of State for Mining ................................................................................................................................................h on. r andy h awes Minister of environment .......................................................................................................................................................h on. barry Penner Minister of State for c limate a ction ...........................................................................................................................................h on.

John Y ap Minister of Forests and r ange and Minister r esponsible for the integrated l and Management bureau ........................... h on.

Pat bell Minister of h ealth Services ...................................................................................................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Minister of h ealthy l iving and Sport ...................................................................................................................................... h on. ida c hong Minister of h ousing and Social Development .................................................................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of l abour ................................................................................................................................................................ h on.

Murray c oell Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .....................................................................................................................h on. k ash h eed Minister of Small business, t echnology and e conomic Development ................................................................................ h on. iain black Minister of t ourism, c ulture and the a rts ...................................................................................................................... h on. k evin k rueger Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ...................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ...................................................................................................................................................c arole James Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker .............................................................................................................................................................c laire t revena Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................................... h arry bloy c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................................. craig h.

James c lerk a ssistant and c ommittee c lerk .................................................................................................................................... k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms .................................................................................................................................................................................

Gary l enz Director, h ansard Services ............................................................................................................................................................Jo-a nne k ern a cting l egislative l ibrarian .......................................................................................................................................................... Peter Gourlay l egislative c omptroller ....................................................................................................................................................................... Dan a rbic

alP habetical liS t o F MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, h on. bill (l) ...................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, h on. iain (l) ..................................................... Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h arry (l) ......................................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-Fleetwood c adieux, Stephanie (l) ...........................................................Surrey-Panorama c ampbell, h on. Gordon (l) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, h on. Murray (l) ....................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ...........................................

Fort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) .............................................................. Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on.

Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington Falcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale Farnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam Fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake Foster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, h on. c olin (l) ..................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, h on. r andy (l) ..................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, h on. k ash (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-Fraserview h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ..................................................Vancouver–West end h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de Fuca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, h on. k evin (l) ..................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, t erry (l) .....................................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................Fraser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, h on. Margaret (l) ..................................... Vancouver-Fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on.

Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–False creek Mcr ae, Don (l) ............................................................................. c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry (l) ............................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (nDP) ...................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, h on. ben (l) ........................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, h on. Moira (l) ...................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon. Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, hon.

John (l) .............................................................r ichmond-Steveston liS t o F MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .............................................................h on. r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ...................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott Fraser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ............................................................................ h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope ...................................................................h on. barry Penner c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley.................................................................................... Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis Fort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman Fraser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de Fuca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson .............................................................t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ............................................ h on. k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast .......................................................................... h on. bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................

Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam .............................................................h on. iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston .................................................................... h on. John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands ........................................... h on.

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on. George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine .......................................................................................

Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin Falcon Surrey-Fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ..................................................................Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ...........................................................................

Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-Fairview ............................................. h on. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–False creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-Fraserview ..............................................................h on. k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara ............................................................. h on. Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant .........................................

Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey .................................................h on.

Gordon c ampbell Vancouver-Quilchena ..........................................................h on. c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ................................................................Spencer h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric Foster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob Fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna ...................................................................h on. ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 49; n ew Democratic 35; independent 1

CONTENTS Thursday, october 8, 2009 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 1137 introduction and First r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 1139 bill Pr403 — Victoria Foundation a mendment a ct, 2009 r .

Sultan bill Pr402 — t rustee board of the c hurch of God, r ichmond Municipality, b.c. (c orporate r estoration) a ct, 2009 r . h oward Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 1139 Downtown Victoria business a ssociation c. James infant development program for special needs children l. r eid l abour dispute at extra Foods M. Sather h omelessness a ction Week S. c adieux r eport on quality of life in Victoria r .

Fleming r esponse to forest fires in c ariboo-c hilcotin area D. barnett oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 1141 r eport on child labour regulations in b.c. c. James h on. M. c oell r . c houhan M. e lmore M. k aragianis S. Simpson Provincial h ealth Services a uthority contract with Jonathan burns a. Dix h on. k. Falco n l abelling of b.c. wines and wines with o lympic logo l. Popha m h on. r . c oleman k. c orrigan M.

Farnworth t abling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 1147 Statement of 2008-2009 borrowings Forest a ppeals c ommission, annual report, 2008

Orders of the Day Second r eading of bills .......................................................................................................................................................... 1147 bill 11 — l abour Mobility a ct h on. M. Stilwell D. black D. barnett r . c houhan k. c orrigan J. Mcintyre M. Mungall G.

Gentner h on. r . h awes M. k aragianis h on. i. c hong h. b ains D. h orne l. k rog Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 1174 e stimates: Ministry of a griculture and l ands h on. S. Thomson b. r alston h. b ains J. brar r . c houhan h. l ali l. Popha m M. Sather M. Mungall

1137 thurSD a Y , october 8, 2009 The h ouse met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members L.

Krog: on behalf of myself and the member for n anaimo–n orth c owichan and — i think in fairness — the member for Parksville-Qualicum, i want to recog- nize in the gallery today the chair of school district 68, Donna a llen; vice-chair David Murchie; n elson a llen, school trustee; a ndrea bonkowski, school trustee; and Dot n eary, school trustee. a s we all know, those at the bottom of the political chain — the least paid and heavily worked and dedi- cated to public education…. i would ask the h ouse to make them welcome. Hon. G. Abbott: a constituent in the gallery today, Mr.

Steve h ammer, is a financial adviser from Salmon a rm and a constituent of mine from the Shuswap. h e is visiting the l egislature today with a number of other financial advisers who are part of the Financial a dvisers a ssociation of c anada, otherwise known as a dvocis. t oday at the lunch hour members from both sides of the l egislature, in a typically non-partisan process so typ- ical of the proceedings here in this chamber, enjoyed both a very nice lunch with a dvocis and also the opportunity to learn a little bit more about the business of financial advisory services and how they might be improved. i'll just mention the leaders of the organization who are joining us in the gallery today.

David Webb is the chair of the b.c. political advocacy committee, Greg Pollock is the president and ceo of a dvocis, and k ris birchard is the chair of the a dvocis board. i would like all members to please make them welcome. [1335] V . Huntington: it is my pleasure today to introduce two individuals who have been in Victoria to attend the Gathering and Sharing Wisdom c onference sponsored by the u niversity of Victoria and the indigenous c hild Welfare r esearch n etwork. in the gallery are Miss t rish n aziel, Wet'suwet'en, a member of the Moricetown band and the community family support worker in Moricetown.

With Miss n aziel is my great friend and mentor Miss bonita Danes, Gitxsan, a member of the Gitanmaax band and the house of Wii Gaak — which is my house, i'm proud to say — and the social development program manager at Moricetown. i would like to add that our hon. Deputy Speaker recalls meeting both women during a trip to Moricetown as minister and passes on her regards. Would the h ouse make my friends feel welcome. Hon. M.

McNeil: i'm very pleased today to welcome to the gallery guests from e lsie r oy e lementary School in Vancouver–False creek. i would like to introduce teach- ers Doug McMillan, Melissa Mcc leary, k elly e gilsson and a vril Mclachlan, along with parents Marnie and Gilda, who have come with their students in grade 5. i had the pleasure of meeting with them at their school last week, and i'm really pleased that they're able to be here this week. i would like you all to make them feel welcome. M. Karagianis: i'm very proud today to welcome to the h ouse 25 officers from c anadian Forces base e squimalt.

They are currently involved in the professional military education program. They include navy, air force and army officers. They're here with their teacher Mona brash. i would like the house to give them a very good welcome. L. Reid: t oday i have two guests in the chamber. i would ask the h ouse to please join me in welcoming Dr.

Dana brynelsen and Judith o ldfield. t rue leader - ship deserves our thanks. i rise today to extend a heart- felt thank-you to both these women who have devoted their careers to the babies of british c olumbia — Dr. brynelsen as provincial adviser and Judith o ldfield as the adviser for Vancouver island.

There have been c anadian firsts under Dr. brynelsen's leadership — the first infant development program in c anada since 1975 — and the first aboriginal infant development program in c anada was founded in british c olumbia. t oday Dr. brynelsen is undergoing treatment for breast cancer. i would ask every member of this h ouse to join with me in thanking her and offering every possible encouragement as her treatment proceeds. B.

Ralston: i too want to join with the Minister of a boriginal r elations in welcoming the members of a dvocis, who are the Financial a dvisers a ssociation of c anada. i'd also like to extend the greetings and the wel- come of this side of the h ouse to their leaders: David Webb, who's the b.c. chair; Greg Pollock, the president and chief executive officer of the national organization; and k ristan birchard, the chair of the national board. a nd if i might say, Mr. Speaker, i was particularly moved by the conversion — very recent, admittedly — of the Minister of aboriginal relations to non-partisan status. D.

Hayer: i also wanted to say thank you and welcome to two special guests from the same lunch we enjoyed today. one is Mrs. Gail Sidhu, and the other one is her husband, c haranjit Sidhu. h e is a community leader in Surrey and l ower Mainland of the greater Vancouver area, and he is also the president of the Vancouver Financial a dvisers a ssociation of c anada. h e often

british c olumbia Debates1138 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 goes on radio stations in the Punjabi language — and also t V stations — to explain the government policies in Punjabi and does a great job of it. h e's a great friend of the community and a great leader. c ould you please make them very welcome. D. Routley: i'd like the h ouse to help me welcome two women who have made great contributions to the communities of the c owichan Valley over many years and continue to do so. The first is a nn a ndersen. a nn is the chair of the c owichan Valley school district. She has a long history in the valley.

She's been a columnist and a reporter and currently still does that work from time to time. She is very community-connected as a community leader and maintains friends on all sides of the political spectrum. i have great respect for a nn. Joining her in the gallery is Diana Gunderson, who is a great friend. She's the vice-chair of the c owichan Valley school board. [1340] She's a retired high school teacher, and — not want- ing to betray too many advantages to our opposition — i'll tell you, you have to campaign door to door with a retired high school teacher, because they open the door and say: "h ello, Ms.

Gunderson. h ow are you?" a nd she says: "This is my friend Doug." e xcuse me, Mr. Speaker. a nd then they go: "Y eah, well, that's fine. h ow are you, Ms. Gunderson?" So it definitely breaks down barriers when you campaign with a retired high school teacher. i'd like to thank both of them for all their contribu- tions to the communities of the c owichan Valley and for their longstanding friendship. P . Pimm: i'd also like to stand and welcome a con- stituent of mine to the h ouse today. Mr. brad brain is a member of the a dvocis group. N.

Simons: i'd like to welcome today to the h ouse a llen c ummings, who i've worked with in the area of child welfare. i'm pleased to see him here working on behalf of the Wet'suwet'en n ation as they set up their own child welfare agency. Will the h ouse please make him welcome. Hon. C. Hansen: a lso as part of the a dvocis group here today, a good friend and constituent of mine, Mr. b ob c owan. i hope the h ouse will make him welcome. M. Mungall: i'd like the h ouse to make welcome a constituent of mine, Sheryl a nne k ennedy.

She's a young mom, a nursing student. it's very rare that constituents from n elson-creston make it all the way to Victoria, so please make her welcome. H. Bloy: i would like to make two introductions today. i had the privilege of having lunch with two students, from close to my area, from Mediated l earning a cademy. i had lunch with Victoria h itchen and Michelle Stein, and they challenged me on the future of british c olumbia. This group has been over many times, and i would like to record their names for history in Hansard. i would like to read out the names of the students that are visit- ing today.

Fisal k han is the teacher — Jennifer Pritchard, Peter Woods, k rista Wuensche, k ristina Wilson, Steven c hang, k elly h ill, a shley Secrest.

The students are Jose Y anez, Jonathan Giang, Sheldon h illman, Jacob c omin, Qahir h irani, Safeer Jivraj, Mathew t om-Wing, c hantal Martin, k ayla l ogan, c haris h ughes, n ahim bhatia, Pearl Y ang, Forest Graves, Victoria t ai, a nthony Shum, Stephanie c ruz, Marisa c annon, Mary a nn Saunders, Sam l ai, Sung Min Y ang, c eline Poulin and Willy t an. i ask the h ouse to make these young people truly welcome today. i have the privilege of introducing a group from c hina from Jiangsu c ommunity h ealth and W omen and c hildren Services. i look forward to meeting them here later today: Mr. Shen Zhihong, Mr.

Qin c heng, Mr. Yu Guosheng, Mr. Xia Xianquan, Ms. Zhuge Moyi and Ms. Wu Shanfeng. S. Herbert: Myself and the member for k elowna– l ake c ountry had the pleasure of a good discussion and lunch with r onald r ussell and Vic Scarpe and the president of the Greater Vancouver area for a dvocis, c haranjit Sidhu. i want to welcome them to this h ouse and thank them for their financial advice, since we cer - tainly all could use some. Hon. M. de Jong: h on.

Speaker, 20 years ago one of your predecessors occupying the high office of Speaker lent his title to a trophy that is awarded annually in a tennis tournament that takes place between members of this assembly and members of the press gallery. Since 1989 the gallery and members of this assembly have gathered on the grass court field of battle and done battle. [1345] i have to tell members that in the aftermath of the election, numbers were down on both sides.

The press gallery fielded the top-seeded players l es l eyne and k eith baldrey; the assembly, the unseeded c lerk of the assembly and me. h owever, modesty precludes me from disclosing the actual outcome, except to tell members this. When the tournament began, this assembly had won 18 of 19 tournaments. by the conclusion of the tournament, this assembly has won 19 of 20 tournaments. i thank the gallery, i thank the c lerk, and i invite all members next year — around June — to be aware of the tournament and to come and have a good time in this annual event.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1139 Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill P r403 — Victoria Foun Dation aMenDMent act, 2009 r . Sultan presented a bill intituled Victoria Founda- tion a mendment a ct, 2009. R. Sultan: i move that this bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. R. Sultan: The Victoria Foundation is in many ways a core philanthropic institution of this community, host- ing some 72 other societies and philanthropies, and each year giving away millions of dollars to causes ranging from autism to a lzheimer's, to aboriginal scholarships and to the Pacific o pera. This rather longstanding organization,

an act going back some 73 years, has encountered some technical difficulties and requires amending at this time. in the financial meltdown, the general guideline by which most foundations operate — namely, "Thou may disburse income but never capital" — has in this case forced the foundation to consider ceasing all dona- tions until capital markets improve.

Given the wide scope of impact of this foundation, the directors have decided to seek relief from that particular provision in its charter. a second issue has arisen in terms of some ambigu- ity in language as currently interpreted by the c anadian r evenue a gency.

They seek clarification to ensure that there's absolutely no doubt as to their standing as a char- itable organization. i move that the bill be referred to the Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, e thical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills. bill Pr403, Victoria Foundation a mendment a ct, 2009, introduced, read a first time and referred to the Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, e thical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills. bill P r402 — t ru Stee boar D o F the church o F Go D, richM onD MuniciP alit Y, b.c. (c orPorate r e Storation) a ct, 2009 r . h oward presented a bill intituled t rustee board of the c hurch of God, r ichmond Municipality, b.c. (c or- porate r estoration) a ct, 2009.

R. Howard: i move that the bill be introduced and now read a first time. Motion approved. R.

Howard: This is simply to restore the society to the registrar of companies, as it has been over ten years that an unintentional omission to file caused the society to be struck from the registrar. i move that the bill be referred to the Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, e thical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills. bill Pr402, t rustee board of the c hurch of God, r ich- mond Municipality, b.c. (c orporate r estoration) a ct, 2009, introduced, read a first time and referred to the Select Standing c ommittee on Parliamentary r eform, e thical c onduct, Standing orders and Private b ills.

Statements (Standing Order 25B) Do Wnto Wn Victoria buS ineSS a SSociation C. James: a s we celebrate Small business Month in b.c ., i rise to recognize an organization that represents many small businesses in my community. Victoria is regarded as one of the top downtowns in n orth a merica. n o doubt one of the reasons that it receives such a high rating is because of the work being done by the Downtown Victoria business a ssociation.

The association represents hundreds of businesses in downtown Victoria. it collaborates with many partners to reinforce and enhance the wonderful attributes of Victoria's downtown, while making important contribu- tions to our community.

The association is a voice and an advocate for a vibrant and prosperous downtown. e very September it provides an opportunity to local artists to come downtown and sketch and profile their work. [1350] by funding and supporting projects like the retail theft prevention project, the greater Victoria commis- sion to end homelessness, the clean team or grants for the purchase and installation of lighting for buildings, the downtown association plays an incredible role and serves in so many different ways. t oday i'd like to applaud the work that Downtown Victoria business a ssociation is doing to ensure we have a healthy, safe and welcoming downtown in Victoria. i ask the h ouse to join me in thanking them for all they do. inF ant De Velo PMent Pro GraM For SPecial neeDS chilD ren L.

Reid: Mr. Speaker, it's about the babies. if you are concerned about your child's development, the infant development program can help. For more than three

british c olumbia Debates1140 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 decades now, the infant development program has been serving families whose little ones, birth to three, either have or are at risk for developmental delays or disabilities. The infant development program continues to focus on the home life of these young children and on giving parents and other family members the support they need to provide loving environments that will encour - age the development of their children. infant development consultants are expert in parent- child attachment.

The wide range of family-centred services provided by the dedicated staff and volunteers includes play groups, parent-infant interaction groups and family support services. The infant development program recognizes that a child's early years are of critical importance and that identifying developmental challenges early is crucial so that appropriate services can be accessed. e very year an estimated 8,000 children are helped by this wonderful organization. Many live in r ichmond e ast, where we have an outstanding program which serves 450 families each year.

The extraordinary divers- ity of r ichmond is also honoured by the fact that service is provided in english, Mandarin, c antonese, Punjabi and k orean. i'd like to recognize the infant development program staff in r ichmond: c arolyn k eith, a nnie h ung, r amnik a hluwalia, Michelle bulthuis, Stella Wong, Grace Yip, Jenny Shin and a nn Mcc ormick. a ll children flourish when they're supported by wel- coming family members, peers and professionals. i ask this h ouse to recognize the outstanding services that the infant development program continues to provide. c ongratulations on 3½ decades of service to the babies of b.c.

More than 80,000 infants and their families have been served by this program over its lifetime, with approxi- mately 40,000 home visits each and every year. Dr. brynelsen, you have built an amazing legacy, and we thank you. labour DiSPute at e Xtra Foo DS M. Sather: There's some light at the end of the tunnel for a long, ongoing labour-management dispute in my community of Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows.

The workers at the e xtra Foods store located in down- town Maple r idge have been on strike for over nine months now, manning the picket lines rain or shine and, if anyone remembers our last winter, snow. i talk to the workers regularly, and i can tell you that they are a deter- mined lot — something one can understand considering that they have been without a contract since 2004. Though this dispute is between management and the workers, the seniors of Maple r idge have been greatly affected.

The store is located close to a number of sen- iors homes, and these seniors were able to walk to e xtra Foods to do their shopping. Many of these seniors are unable to drive, and this location allowed them to get their groceries independently and conveniently. h aving e xtra Foods nearby with reasonable prices has become even more important recently. Due to discontinuation of the seniors outreach program, it is more difficult for many of our seniors to get assistance for shopping as well as to obtain their medications and attend medical appointments.

The workers did not want this dispute and had requested mediation months ago, but the company refused, and the work stoppage has dragged on and on. Thankfully, i hear that the company has come back to the bargaining table, agreeing to mediation. h opefully, this means the store will be open soon, employing people and filling its invalu- able role in our community. ho MeleSS neSS action Week S.

Cadieux: n ext week from o ctober 11 to o ctober 17 we recognize the fourth annual h omelessness a ction Week in b.c. h omelessness is an issue we must address, and this is an opportunity to identify the men and women who live on the streets and the people who help them in their daily lives.

This year local communities around b.c. are taking action by hosting local events, allowing those in need to benefit from services like haircuts, veterinary care, acu- puncture, resumé writing and, as well, backpack drives at community schools for warm clothes and hygiene products. in Surrey the Surrey u rban Mission is hosting multiple events, including a Thanksgiving lunch. [1355] This is about taking action.

Through initiatives like the homelessness intervention project, which has suc- cessfully housed 102 people in just Surrey alone, we can help people like l orne. l orne lived in a Surrey park, supported himself by picking up pop bottles and eating at soup kitchens. With the help of outreach workers, he now has secure accommodation. We must work with partners at all levels to create supportive housing. These successful partnerships have built 702 units in Surrey in the last eight years.

Fighting homelessness is also about connecting people with health care, addiction services and stable homes — a stable foundation on which to build independence. t aking action against homelessness is now more important than ever during a global eco- nomic turndown. i would like to acknowledge the Surrey u rban Mission and all of the organizations and communities that sup- port h omelessness a ction Week. l et's also take this opportunity to recognize those british c olumbians who find themselves without a home and to taking the steps necessary towards ending the cycle of homelessness.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1141 re Port on Qualit Y o F liFe in Victoria R. Fleming: t oday i'd like to recognize in this h ouse an innovative and important process that tells us how well our communities are doing in terms of their quality of life. Vital Signs is an annual community checkup conducted by community foundations across c anada to measure the vitality of our cities; to identify demographic, social and economic trends; and to assign grades based on these performance indicators in areas that measure our quality of life.

The use of indicators and report cards to assess com- munity needs and opportunities is a growing trend in c anada for policy-makers, for community organ- izations and for citizens wanting to make a difference where they live, where they work and where they raise their families. embarking on their fourth year of publication, the Victoria Foundation is utilizing this report card to make connections between issues and trends that at first glance sometimes seem unrelated.

Victoria's Vital Signs report card measures the health of our city and evaluates 11 areas critical to Victoria's vitality. it presents informa- tion in key areas such as learning, health, housing, the environment and affordability in the community.

Data included in this annual report has been gath- ered in cooperation with a number of institutions in our community. it is analyzed and interpreted by the Victoria Foundation to then evaluate the capital region as a place to live, learn, work and grow. a s our community's oldest and largest philanthropic foundation, the Victoria Foundation is very well suited to this kind of initiative because of the broad role it plays in working with and funding a wide range of commun- ity organizations, not just one charity or sector. a cross c anada Vital Signs report cards are giving each community foundation, its donors and the community at large valuable insights into the strengths, challenges and opportunities that exist in our community.

Measuring the vitality of the capital region and other canadian commun- ities through Vital Signs helps to make this happen. i wish to thank all of the volunteers that have put together this fourth annual report. re SPon Se to Fore St Fire S in cariboo-chilcotin area D. Barnett: t o date in the c ariboo-c hilcotin there have been over 460 forest fires. Some are still active. n atural causes account for over 325 of these fires, and 135 human-made.

The estimated cost in my area: over $40 million to fight these fires; 500 firefighters, many of whom are volunteers; homes lost, five, and one historic post office. i would like to thank today the b.c.

Ministry of Forests, the forest fire fighters from all walks of life, vol- unteers, the c ariboo regional district board and staff whose authority under the l ocal Government a ct work with all agencies and citizens to ensure safety of life and limb of humans and animals. i would like to thank the provincial emergency pro- gram staff, the rcMP and the search and rescue — to the many volunteers who gave of their time so unself- ishly in my region to ensure that the comforts and safety of all citizens were met. [1400] i am proud to announce that in my area, where most of our firefighters are volunteers, on Saturday there will be two new fire halls opening — one in memory of a pioneer by the name of Shorty h orn and the other in the memory of a firefighter, Sonny Johnson.

These halls were built by volunteers, volunteer firefighters and their wives, local citizens, through the industrial commun- ity's and businesses' donations and support from the b.c. gaming branch. i ask this h ouse today to thank the volunteers, the firefighters and the agencies for their great work during the forest fire season in the c ariboo-c hilcotin. Oral Questions re Port on chil D labour reGulationS in b.c. C. James: Mr.

Speaker, the people of british c olumbia woke up today to a shocking report. it shows that since this government rewrote the child labour laws in 2004, ten times more children are getting injured working in british c olumbia — children as young as 12, 13 and 14. This report is an indictment of this government and their direction. My question is to the Minister of l abour. Will he admit today that his government was wrong to change child labour laws, which has put children in british c olumbia at risk? Hon. M.

Coell: i think members on both sides of the h ouse take reports like this very seriously. a ny injury is one too many, i know, for all members of this house. i can remind the member, though, that when the changes took place in 2003, the age of children able to work did not change. The employment standards did not change, and the occupational safety programs did not change. What changed was a permit system that wasn't working. a few hundred permits were taken out per year, and government knew that there were literally thousands of young people working.

What we've done is allow parents and employers to be involved in their children's work, while allowing chil- dren to be protected by all of the same protections that are there for all workers.

british c olumbia Debates1142 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a supplemental. C. James: This minister should be ashamed. h e should be ashamed for standing up and trying to defend this government's failure to protect children in the workplace. There were warnings well before this gov- ernment brought in their changes. People across this province warned that the changes would be damaging for children, and they pushed ahead anyway. t oday we have the weakest rules on child labour in this country, here in british c olumbia.

This is what the report says: "Since the new law came into force in 2004, b.c. is the only province that does not place legislative or regulatory restrictions on the type of occupations, tasks or time of day that a child can work." a gain, my question is to the minister. Whether it's the shocking increase in work-related injuries, the worst child poverty rate in this country or more homeless kids, why do b.c. children always come last with this government? Hon. M.

Coell: i needn't remind the member that during the years of the nDP government, there also were large numbers of people who were injured in the work- force. That does not make that right — now or in those days. We want to make sure that we are working to pro- tect children if they choose to work in the workforce.

WorkSafe b.c. has increased regulations. it has increased the number of times they're in schools with programs to talk directly to students. it has a number of programs it has initiated in our term of office that deal directly with employers, telling them what rights they need to look for and how they need to supervise young people who are working for them. WorkSafe is doing an excellent job on protecting young people. They can, of course, do more, and we will do more. Mr. Speaker: The l eader of the o pposition has a fur- ther supplemental. C.

James: h ow can the minister stand and say that an excellent job is being done when there's a tenfold increase in the injuries for children in british c olumbia? [1405] This government was warned before they brought in the changes. a 2003 report said that the new rules would take away kids' ability to finish high school and leave them vulnerable to exploitation, but the government ignored all the warnings and stripped the rules down.

We now have the worst labour laws for children in this country, ten times more children being injured, and they're being hurt in jobs that include construction, manufacturing and the oil and gas sector. These children that are getting hurt aren't being monitored. They don't have a voice, and they certainly don't have a say. So my question is again to the minister. Will he admit today in this h ouse that the government was wrong to rewrite those child labour laws, and will he put in place protections for children in british c olumbia? Hon. M.

Coell: The member seems to prefer a regime that had a permit system that a few hundred people took out permits, and literally thousands of people were working. Y oung people were working and not having the protection they needed. WorkSafe in the last ten years has done a great deal of work to educate employers, to educate parents, to educate school boards and individ- uals on safety. They will continue to do that. R. Chouhan: The report also says: "When b.c. aban- doned the permit system overseeing the employment of children, it also abandoned keeping track of how many children are working….

Due to a lack of data, it is very difficult to estimate the number of children participat- ing in the workforce." My question is to the Minister of l abour. h ow does he explain not having a system to collect child labour data when we are seeing a record high increase in child labour injuries? Hon. M. Coell: i hope the member isn't suggesting that their permit system was actually keeping track of those young people who were working in the system. it certainly wasn't. There were literally thousands and thou- sands of young people working in the system that weren't tracked by the nDP government.

We have brought in the fact that parents and employers need to agree that the employment of an individual is important. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. Members. Members, we've got somebody that's asked a question. We've got somebody that's going to answer the question. Hon. M. Coell: a s i said to the previous speaker, the age of children working did not change. The protection of workers has actually increased.

WorkSafe has increased their programs to deal with parents and employers so that they work together. a ny injury on the job in this province is one too many, and i would hope that all members of this house agree. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. R. Chouhan: The question is then: what has this govern- ment done in the last eight years to protect the children? Y ou have miserably failed to protect the children in b.c. u nder the current rules, all an employer needs to hire a child as young as 12 is the permission of only one

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1143 parent or guardian. h ere is what the report says: "While the new law required the written consent for their chil- dren to work, 58.3 percent of 12- to 14-year-olds with jobs reported that their employer did not receive written approval from their parents." So my question again to the minister: why aren't even the most minimal laws being followed? Hon. M. Coell: The member knows that the occupa- tional health and safety regulation applies to all work- ers in this province equally, no matter what age they are.

The member also knows that having parents and employers working with children who want to work is a good thing. increasing the number of programs that WorkSafe has for children, for employers and for par - ents is a good thing. WorkSafe is continuing to develop programs and continuing to work with employers and children and parents. [1410] M.

Elmore: Worst child poverty rate in c anada for six years, kids of homeless working parents living on the streets, $6 training wage and now ten times more 12-, 13- and 14-year-olds getting injured working. t o the minister: what does it take for this government and this minister to take steps to protect b.c.'s kids? Hon. M. Coell: The member seems to be looking back to the days when we had the highest youth unemploy- ment rate in this country. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M.

Coell: i think everyone in this h ouse wants to make sure that we have safe workplaces for the workers of this province. i think that W orkSafe has done an excellent job in the last ten years of looking to what they can do, what programs they can put in place for young workers. They have done that. They're continuing to do that. They're continuing to look at the statistics that they get and build on those programs, and they'll continue to do that. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Elmore: t oday under this government, we see the highest injury rate for kids.

The report says b.c. is note- worthy as the only province that does not set out in law or regulation the occupations, tasks or time of day for children to work. This government was warned for years about the defi- ciencies of the new rules, and they pushed ahead anyway. t oday b.c. has become a national shame on child labour conditions. So my question is to the minister. t welve-year-olds working in dangerous jobs, ten times more kids getting hurt — is this the kind of reputation he thinks should make b.c. noteworthy? What is he going to do about it, and when is he going to end this? Hon. M.

Coell: a s i said, every injury on a job in this province is important — and, i would hope, to both sides of this h ouse. i know it is to WorkSafe b.c. We wanted to make sure that parents were involved with employers, that employers knew they had a respon- sibility for supervision and for safety. This occupational safety regulation has not changed. The age at which a young person can work has not changed. WorkSafe has improved many of the programs that it has for people who are working at a young age, and they'll continue to do that. M.

Karagianis: it does not look like this govern- ment is taking this report seriously at all. The reality, the bottom line, is that child injuries are up. What is this minister going to do about it? Hon. M. Coell: The member might want to go back and look at some of the years when the nDP were government. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. M. Coell: i can tell you that WorkSafe has publi- cations and promotional material in all schools. There is a planning 10 mandatory program for students approxi- mately age 15 on safety.

School-based programs and programs for employers are all in place and continue to evolve. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M. Karagianis: The reality is that injuries are up ten- fold here in the province of british c olumbia. This is an indictment against this government. They changed the legislation that has now endangered children here in the province of british c olumbia, and we want to know: what are they going to do about it? [1415] a re they going to take the recommendations and put them in place or not?

What is the minister going to do to stop the injuries to children in the province of british c olumbia?

british c olumbia Debates1144 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 Hon. M. Coell: i have read the report, and i'll be meet- ing with First c all next week to discuss the report. but i can tell you — and i think the member should know — the great work that WorkSafe has done in the past decade on developing programs for young workers. a ctually, young workers' accidents have gone down in the province over the last eight years and will continue to do that. We need to work with WorkSafe. We need to work with employers and employees to make sure that our workplaces are safe. S.

Simpson: The report tells us: 70 percent of kids working without adult supervision, over 58 percent of employers employing kids without written approvals. The result: a tenfold increase in the number of kids — 12-, 13- or 14-year-olds — injured on the job. What is the minister going to do to protect these kids? Hon. M. Coell: a s i said, the occupational and safety regulation applies to all workers. it has been strength- ened. WorkSafe b.c. continues to look at new avenues to help the workplace safety, and they will continue to do that. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S.

Simpson: The minister continues to talk about WorkSafe and what they do. We are not talking about adults here. We're talking about 12-year-olds. These kids are at risk on the job. That's what this report tells us. What is the minister going to do to protect these chil- dren that he put to work? Hon. M. Coell: a s i said earlier, the nDP's work permit — which had been in place, actually, a decade before they were in government — did not track the number of people working. There were literally thou- sands and thousands of young people who were working in the province not being tracked.

We wanted to make sure that parents and employers had a written agreement if a young person was going to work for them. W e have made sure that W orkSafe has enhanced their safety programs for schools, for individuals and for employers in the province, and they'll continue to do that. Pro Vincial health Ser ViceS authorit Y contract With Jonathan burnS A. Dix: We've seen in the last 24 hours how the lack of administrative control has damaged the e-health project in the Ministry of h ealth. Y esterday i asked the…. interjection. A. Dix: The page-turner has woken up, hon. Speaker. interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. A. Dix: Y esterday i asked the Minister of health…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Member. Member. Members, let's listen to the questions, and then we can listen to the answer. c ontinue, Member. A. Dix: Y esterday i asked the Minister of h ealth about a contract that the PhSa, the Provincial h ealth Services a uthority, gave to Dr. Jonathan burns. n ow, he's had 24 hours. c an he answer a very simple question about those contracts? Were they tendered, what were they for, and does he think they were a good idea? Hon. K.

Falcon: it would have been helpful if the member referred to the fact that he was referring to an incident from two years ago. i'd be happy to inform the member that those contracts are the subject of an rcMP investigation, as the member well knows. i would also advise the member that there is a special prosecutor overseeing those investigations, as is appro- priate. i'd also let the member know that the rcMP were very clear and specifically made clear to the Ministry of h ealth and the employees in the Ministry of h ealth not to discuss the incidents around the investigation in order to not jeopardize the investigation. interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. [1420] A. Dix: it's a supplementary question to the Minister of h ealth. Presumably, we're not going to have to wait three, four or eight years to get answers about what's gone wrong with the government's e-health program. it's a very simple question. it's a very specific contract. The issue is untendered health contracts. h e's respon- sible in this h ouse for those contracts right now. My question to the minister is very simple. it's a con- tract.

Was it tendered, what was it for, and why did the Ministry of h ealth, while they were holding the same contractor under contract for $30,000 a month…? Why did the Provincial h ealth Services a uthority engage in this contract? Hon. K. Falcon: it is so typical of the h ealth critic to engage in reckless allegations and turn this into a Star c hamber as opposed to allowing an investigation to

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1145 take place, which is underway. These are allegations — and they are serious allegations — involving a handful of public servants… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Falcon: …from 2007. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. K. Falcon: These are allegations with respect to a handful of public servants who are no longer with gov- ernment that are being investigated by the rcMP under the purview of a special prosecutor.

For that member to suggest that this should be the Star c hamber, where we act as judge and jury on those allegations, is reckless and irresponsible. labellin G o F b.c. WineS anD WineS With ol YMPic lo Go L. Popham: Y esterday we heard about the 2010 games being used to sell knockoff c owichan sweaters. t oday let's talk about fake b.c. wine.

For example, Jackson- t riggs e sprit wine has the Vancouver 2010 logo plas- tered on the front of the bottle even though it's nothing more than cheap foreign plonk. c an the Minister of State for the o lympics tell me why this government is allowing phony wine to be sold under our b.c. o lympic logo? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. R. Coleman: There are two issues in the member's question. o ne was how wine is positioned as cellared in c anada in our liquor stores, which we are changing right now, as the member may be aware, because the discus- sion came up recently and came to our attention.

The second piece, though, is let's remember that the company that has signed an agreement for o lympic sponsorship is an international company. When they signed that agreement for sponsorship, they don't put it on wines they sell just in british c olumbia but anywhere else in the world, if they wish, or on any apparel or what- ever they want, because they have a licensing agreement with Vanoc. The reality is that there is an issue with regards to the blended wine versus b.c. 100 percent grape wine. That issue is being addressed and fixed. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. L.

Popham: i think that's quite interesting, because last week the minister was quoted as saying: "i'm not totally dissatisfied with the way it is now." "We are showcasing our ability to deceive customers." That's what David bond, the executive director of the b.c. Wine Growers, is saying about the o lympics. a gain to the Minister of State for the o lympics: why is she putting the reputation of our world-class b.c. wines at risk by allowing cheap foreign plonk to be sold under the b.c. o lympic logo? Hon. R.

Coleman: First of all, VQ a wine is 100 percent grape wine. british c olumbia's is probably the best wine in the world, and it's made in british c olumbia. [1425] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Minister, just take your seat for a second. c ontinue, Minister. Hon. R.

Coleman: The member might also look at where Mr. bond's bias is with the organization he repre- sents and his long commitment to having arguments with regards to that premium wine in british c olumbia through the wine industry in b.c. in addition to that, let's recall this. a n issue came to us that came across c anada with regards to blended wines in c anada. We said that we would look at the issue. We are looking at the issue. We're dealing with it in our stores. a cross c anada that's also going to be done. l abelling of this wine, by the way, Member, is not a responsibility of the provincial government.

We don't have jurisdiction over labelling federally, but we are addressing the issue with the industry, who have agreed to find solutions with us so this issue can be dealt with and bring back the consumer confidence with regards to blended wines in british c olumbia. K.

Corrigan: My question is for the Minister of State for the o lympics, and we really hope she'll get up and prove she deserves to be a minister today. if spinning o lympic knockoffs was a sport, this gov- ernment would win a gold medal. t oday tourists and locals alike are buying a cheap o lympic impostor wine under the misconception they are buying one of our fine b.c. wines. This is leaving a decidedly sour taste in the mouth of b.c. wine producers. t o the Minister of State for the o lympics: will she explain why this government has done nothing to ensure our o lympic wines are actually made in b.c.?

british c olumbia Debates1146 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 Hon. R. Coleman: There's the VQ a label in british c olumbia that represents 100 percent pure b.c. grape wine. in b.c. it is the premium product, and everybody knows that in british c olumbia who knows anything about wine. There is an issue with regards to some blended wines that we're dealing with. it's amazing.

This is an inter - national company that sells wine all over the world, has wineries all over the world, and they have an o lympic sponsorship which is international. i suppose the next thing the members are going to get up and say is: "Y ou know what? c oca-c ola is a sponsor, but they better make all of the c oca-c ola they sell at the o lympics in the province of british c olumbia." Get a grip, Member. interjections. Hon. R. Coleman: Get a grip, Members. We're welcoming the world to an international event.

We have international sponsors, and the b.c. wine that will be at the o lympics with Vincor and Jackson-t riggs will be 100 percent b.c. grapes, where we'll show the best wine in the country. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. K.

Corrigan: This government promised the o lympics were going to be an opportunity to show off b.c., but unfortunately, it's very clear from the answer that we just received that the government has absolutely no interest in using the o lympics to showcase local vineyards and wineries — absolutely no interest whatsoever. a gain to the Minister of State for the o lympics…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. K. Corrigan: Will she commit right now to stop…? Mr. Speaker: Member, just wait a second so we can hear. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Minister. c ontinue, Member. K.

Corrigan: Will she commit right now to stop the misleading and damaging practice of selling foreign wine under our b.c. o lympic label today? Hon. R. Coleman: a s i explained to the members opposite, we had a consumer issue. We're dealing with the consumer issue right now within our stores and with the relationship with the wine industry with regards to the consumer issue on blended wines. [1430] but make it very clear that they've made it very clear at the o lympic sponsorship site that they are going to use 100 percent b.c. VQ a wine at the o lympics.

Just so you understand, that will be wine from a com- pany named Vincor, owned by c onstellation, because they have paid millions of dollars to have the opportun- ity to have a sponsorship to support the o lympics in british c olumbia, which we're proud that they're pre- pared to do. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Just wait. c ontinue, Member. M. Farnworth: n ow that we've had the commentary from binder boy over there, perhaps we can get to the real issue. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M.

Farnworth: The public of british c olumbia expects that when wine is sold bearing the o lympic logo of british c olumbia, it is b.c. grapes and b.c. wine that's in the bottle. That's what they expect — nothing less. When they buy that wine right now…. Y ou pick up n aked Grape. it has the b.c. o lympic logo on it, and it says that it doesn't hide itself. Well, it is. c an the minister stand in this h ouse and guarantee that the wine that is sold with the b.c. o lympic logo on it, that represents our province, contains only b.c. grapes and only b.c. wine? Hon. R.

Coleman: i guess we're lucky some French wine company didn't buy the o lympic sponsorship and support the b.c. o lympics. The fact of the matter is, a company that has wineries in british c olumbia who make some of the best wines in the world here in british c olumbia with 100 percent b.c. grapes has sponsored the o lympics. That's what the people of the world are going to see when they come to british c olumbia. [end of question period.] interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1147 Tabling Documents Hon. C. Hansen: Pursuant to the Financial a dminis- tration a ct, i am pleased to present reports for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009, on all amounts borrowed by government and all amounts loaned to government bodies. These reports provide an overview of the prov- ince's borrowing activity in fiscal 2008-2009. Hon. P . Bell: i rise to table the 2008 annual report for the Forest a ppeals c ommission. J. Horgan: i would like to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members J.

Horgan: Joining us in the gallery is a good friend of mine from Sooke. h e travelled on the treacherous h ighway 14 to get here. h is name is John beauquest. Stay right there. i'll come and get you. Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: in c ommittee a, i call c ommittee of Supply — for the information of members, the esti- mates of the Ministry of a griculture and l ands — and in this chamber second reading of bill 11, the l abour Mobility a ct. Mr. Speaker: Members attending to other duties, could they do so quietly. [1435] Second Reading of Bills bill 11 — l abour Mobilit Y act Hon. M.

Stilwell: i move that bill 11, the l abour Mobility a ct, be read a second time.

This legislation reflects the leadership of our prov- ince and our commitment to help workers in the trades and professions. til Ma — our agreement with a lberta on trade, investment and labour mobility — has helped awaken leaders in every province to the opportunities and benefits to be had from collaboration across our country. british c olumbians can be proud of our efforts to give all c anadians the opportunity to live and work wher - ever they choose within our nation. l abour mobility is an important piece of our labour market strategy, affect- ing our ability to find and attract the people with the skills we need.

Many british c olumbians may ask why we need labour mobility, why this legislation is necessary. o ur province is confronted with a rapidly aging population. o ur median age now exceeds 40, and by 2015 almost a third of b.c.'s population will be 55 years or older. in some sectors, retirements are expected to hit close to 75 percent of the present-day workforce. We must take action today to ensure that we can attract the human resources we need for tomorrow. [l. r eid in the chair.] This bill is a significant leap towards ensuring that we have the labour resources necessary to lead c anada's economic recovery.

While this bill supports a new-found level of labour mobility, it has precedence among the nationally recognized r ed Seal–certified trades workers and their ability to practise anywhere in the country. a s i mentioned in my opening remarks, this bill is also about families and workers. For many years indi- viduals have been challenged, forced to make tough career decisions because of their chosen professions when they could not move easily from one province to the next.

These barriers to their movement, when based on small differences in terminology or academic course descriptions, have no place in our present economy. Through the recently ratified agreement on inter - nal trade, we now have the commitment from leaders in every jurisdiction — a commitment to families and individuals that brings certainty, where a professional or tradesperson knows that they will be able to fully use the advantages of their skills and experiences no matter where they have chosen to move in c anada.

This bill does not diminish the important role of prov- incial governing bodies responsible for oversight of key professions like doctors, nurses, lawyers and engineers. in fact, with the advent of full labour mobility ensured by the ait , we anticipate these professional organiza- tions will achieve new levels of open dialogue with their provincial counterparts.

We have had extensive discussions with regulators and have carefully considered their input into our legislation. i am confident that this legislation will enhance the eco- nomic foundations of our province and will ensure that we are ready to meet our commitments. o ur present economy demands that governments, employers and workers be adaptable, flexible and responsive to change. That is why a new national agree- ment on labour mobility is great news for all c anadians, giving them the ability to take full advantage of their tal- ents and training, anywhere in the country.

With the introduction of bill 11, our province is laying a solid foundation for our future. We must ensure that we are ready to capture new opportunities that are cer - tain to emerge when the global economy rebounds. t o do that, we need a skilled workforce. i ask that all members lend their support to this worthwhile and necessary piece of legislation. With that, i am pleased to move second reading.

british c olumbia Debates1148 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 D. Black: Well, i am pleased to rise today to start debate for the official opposition, on bill 11, the l abour Mobility a ct. What we see in this bill is an implementation of chap- ter 7 of the agreement on internal trade, as the minister said a moment ago. c hapter 7 was rewritten in December of '08 and states that provinces must harmonize their occupational standards and certification requirements. it requires that a worker certified in one province must be granted certification in any other province without requirement for additional training, examination or assessment. bill 11 says that

chapter 17 of the ait will govern the resolution of disputes arising from

chapter 7, and chan- ges to

chapter 17 are currently being renegotiated with different provinces across the country. [1440] So it appears that this bill will put into law a provi- sion for dispute resolution that is still being negotiated by many of the provinces, and actually, this has had no public discussion or consultation. t rade expert Steven Shrybman wrote a report in March of this year. it was called State of Play: Canada's Internal Free Trade Agenda. Mr. Shrybman, who is a noted trade lawyer, notes that 20 percent of c anadian workers are employed in regulated occupations or trades across the country.

Provinces decide what standards are needed to ensure that workers are properly qualified and to ensure that people or public safety is not placed at risk. Provinces have already established programs to rec- oncile competing standards, to ensure that provincial standards don't unduly impede labour mobility. We all agree that c anadians, no matter where they live in this country, should be able to move from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and work. That's not in question. it's how it's done that's important.

The changes made to the ait in December of last year substantially expanded labour mobility provisions. i think it's important to get on the record what it states in that agreement.

"a ny worker certified for an occu- pation by a regulatory authority of a party" — which means the authorities and the provinces — "shall, upon application, be certified for that occupation by each other party which regulates that occupation without any requirement for any material…training, experience, examinations or assessments as part of the certification procedure." i believe what that means is that a worker certified for occupation by any provincial regulator is entitled to work anywhere in c anada. We understand that people move. a spouse may be transferred.

People need to be able to relocate and work in other jurisdictions without any undue hardship or financial costs, but the devil is in the details. The concern is that standards may be reduced across the country to the lowest common denominator. i want to just for a moment look at the situation for social workers in british c olumbia. h ere in b.c. the c ollege of Social Workers has a minimum standard of a bachelor of social work. but in a lberta they have a minimum standard of a two-year diploma only, not a university degree.

So unless this government and the minister put through a notice of exemption to ensure that people working in british c olumbia as social workers have attained a bach- elor of social work, we'll have people working in british c olumbia alongside our social workers who have a bach- elor's degree, as social workers, working with vulnerable people when they haven't achieved the same level of edu- cation or training that b.c . social workers have.

That's a concern, one of the concerns that we want to hear addressed when we do the clause-by-clause analysis of the bill. b.c. has experienced some very terrible child deaths, and the only good that comes from these tragedies is when we learn from the tragedies how to make our system a better one, a safer one. There appears to be no provision to raise standards in this bill. o ur worry is that what we will see is a movement to the lower common denominator across all occupations and training.

When we get to committee stage we'll be watching carefully to see what provisions the government has made to pre- vent a downward spiral. Mr. Shrybman's report concludes that tilMa, other similar agreements currently in development and the recent changes to the ait will only further deregulate provincial policies that protect communities and the environment and threaten public services. it's quite possible that bill 11 isn't needed at all.

Virtually all the significant labour mobility issues have already been addressed through interprovincial cooper- ation. impediments to labour mobility are now addressed through mutual recognition agreements in the r ed Seal program. There have only been 23 labour mobility com- plaints, only 23 from 1996 to a ugust of 2009, according to the ait website, and only two of those complaints were upheld. it doesn't indicate a huge problem across this country with labour mobility.

We're concerned that bill 11 may well make it impos- sible for b.c. regulators to establish or maintain higher occupational standards, as in the case that i mentioned earlier around social workers. [1445] The bill means that regulatory authorities will have the power to certify out-of-province workers without examination or assessment. only the minister will be able to give exemptions to protect a higher standard.

The bill also allows the minister to rewrite the bylaws of a regulatory authority and allows out-of-province workers to sue authorities and force them to recognize their certification. it appears that under bill 11 only the jurisdiction with the higher standard can be challenged and penalized.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1149 There doesn't appear to be a way to challenge a lower standard or a standard that is inadequate. if this is the case, the bill then would undermine the r ed Seal pro- gram, forcing every province to recognize workers certi- fied under any other province's standards. There's another concern that needs to be addressed, and that's around the dispute resolution. k nowledgable critics have said the ait

chapter 7 amendments raise the potential for totally deregulated trade certifications across our country. it may mean that every province will be forced to recognize the lowest certification require- ments, and the dispute resolution that accompanies the labour mobility amendment would bring an adminis- trative process to enforce lower standards. The full impact of the

chapter 7 amendments won't be known until every province passes legislation simi- lar to bill 11, which we're debating today. So here we have the government introducing legislation without any really clear idea of how the legislation will impact on our province. a gain, like tilMa, without any public consultation.

The fear is that the result of bill 11 will be to further weaken national standards for construction trades. r ed Seal is currently the de facto national standard, but it's not obligatory. r ed Seal only sets out the minimum requirements, but without any national measure, r ed Seal does at least set a standard. The apprenticeship training community, the instruct- ors, the employers, labour and academics have lobbied for years to support the r ed Seal standard.

We're con- cerned that under bill 11, r ed Seal will mean less and less, and national standards will be subject to a down- ward spiral, a downward spiral with no bottom and no minimum standards. What we need here in british c olumbia is a govern- ment that's committed to encouraging fully qualified and trained journey-level workers and professionals. t o conclude, it doesn't appear at this point, in looking at the bill, that bill 11 is necessary. it's not clear which process supersedes. is it ait? i s it tilMa? i s it bill 11?

We look forward to the committee stage of bill 11, where we can examine the bill clause by clause — hope- fully, get answers to these questions and concerns that we have. We will be articulating other concerns and questions during the second reading debate. it's possible that bill 11 is not necessary to resolve mobility issues.

This government has done no public consultation. in fact, in some of the phoning around that we've done to affected regulatory organizations in british c olumbia, some of them are totally unaware of this bill. it's important that british c olumbians can move across the country and work, but we have to ensure that this is not done at the expense of professional care or trade quality. We'll be watching carefully to see how this government protects the interests of all british c olumbians under bill 11 as we go through the debate and the clause-by-clause analysis of the bill. Thank you very much for your time. D.

Barnett: With many british c olumbians near - ing retirement age, labour mobility is vital for british c olumbia's economy. With our legislation, we are sup- porting b.c. businesses, giving them the ability to attract the kind of skilled trades and professions that we need, removing outdated barriers that prevented these people from easily moving between provinces.

The provin- cial government is taking action to ensure that british c olumbians share in the opportunities created by free- dom of labour mobility throughout c anada. [1450] b.c. has been a national leader in the move towards a labour mobility accord and has clearly demonstrated the mutual benefits of professional and trades recogni- tion through the t rade, investment and l abour Mobility a greement in place between british c olumbia and a lberta and the subsequent improved labour mobility between the two provinces. i have sons, and i can tell you that my sons are trades- people.

Without this act, my sons would not be able to come back to british c olumbia for their trades. i'm proud to stand here today and support this act. i understand the need in the business world today, what is happening to our economy and how we know that when this recession is over, we are going to have to act fast and have many tradespeople and people who are skilled labourers in this province. This gives us the opportunity to once again be first in c anada with our business community and our labour community and to support families. R.

Chouhan: i appreciate this opportunity to speak about bill 11, the l abour Mobility a ct, 2009. i want to make it clear that nobody is against labour mobility. a ll we are concerned about is how it is done. i am concerned about the standards that this bill talks about. it seems like, if you look at it carefully, there aren't any standards set out in the bill to ensure, to protect the jobs in b.c. i'm concerned about the number of jobs that we have lost in british c olumbia already under this government.

Thousands upon thousands of workers have lost their jobs. n ow, with bill 11, when other workers are allowed to come here without any standards, what happens to those jobs? Those are the kinds of questions we need to ask. We will be asking more detailed questions at the committee stage. in the meantime, i just want to make sure that the government understands that bringing this kind of bill without any public consultation does not serve any pur- pose, does not serve the needs of british c olumbians. We have spoken to all the stakeholders. We have found

british c olumbia Debates1150 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 out that none of them were consulted with. That's what we are concerned about. it seems like, under bill 11, it's a race to the bottom. For example, as my colleague has talked about, for social workers, we have a four-year-degree requirement in british c olumbia. a t the same time, in a lberta they have only a two-year course. So what happens?

Would they come here and get the job? o ur british c olumbians spend four years at the university level and work hard and get those credentials, and then they're replaced by somebody with less training, less qualifications. Those are the kinds of concerns that we have. We promote labour mobility. We need that, but at the same time, we must make sure that we do it in a way that workers' rights are not jeopardized, that the public is consulted, so that we have all those measures in place to make sure that when people come here, they meet the same standard.

Some provinces, i think, have higher standards for certain jobs. That's good. So why don't we set a national standard to have the same standards for all provinces under ait? Then we can have bill 11. i think that will work then. Those are the kinds of concerns we have. i hope the government will listen when we ask those questions at the committee stage and ask for those changes or amendments — whatever is necessary — and they will pay attention. K.

Corrigan: This act has been put forward to imple- ment an agreement on labour mobility that british c olumbia and all the other provinces and territories entered into in December 2008 to expand the provisions of the agreement on internal trade, or the ait . i have some real concerns about this bill, so i'll have a lot of questions about its application when we get to the committee stage. i certainly support labour mobility and don't want to do anything to thwart labour mobility in this province, but i think we have to be very careful about how we do it. [1455] That's why i think it's going to be important, when we get to the committee stage, to ask a lot of really specific questions and pointed questions about what the applica- tion of the bill is going to do.

The reality is that the vast majority of workers can move from province to province without any barriers at all, so the need is not clear. There are certainly some situations that need to be addressed, but most signifi- cant mobility issues have been, over the last several years, addressed in recent years through other mechan- isms — mechanisms with interprovincial cooperation, voluntary initiatives, recognizing the importance of the r ed Seal program for skilled trades. i would prefer that we go the route that we address issues of labour mobility through negotiation.

That is certainly a method that has proven successful to date. i think that we have to recognize the very real concern that international workers have.

There are many immi- grants that are coming into our country, and they're having real troubles having their skills recognized, their credentials recognized when they come to c anada. i certainly think we need to work hard in that area and address some of those concerns, but that's a separ - ate issue. once somebody gets into c anada — that is what we are talking about with the agreement on inter - nal trade and bill 11. i'm also concerned that this bill is tied up with the agreement on internal trade, which it is applying, which it is enabling, but also that the agreement on internal trade is tied to international trade agreements. i think you have to think of all of these — the bill, the agreement on internal trade and the international trade agreements — as a package. i think we have to be very careful when we are dealing with this bill. a s positive as it is in some ways, i think we have to remember that it's all tied together.

We certainly have been, now, tied up in knots in this country with international and interprovincial trade agreements that i think are compromising the ability of governments to operate in the public interest — again, another reason why, when it gets to the committee stage, i'm going to have a lot of questions about the application. but i want to be very clear that i and, i believe, all my colleagues support labour mobility.

Y ou can't look at this as a piece of stand-alone legis- lation. i referenced international trade agreements a minute ago. international trade agreements signed by the federal government obligate the federal government to also then make sure that the provincial governments comply. Since ottawa signed, first of all, the F ta and then na Fta in 1993 and the W to in 1998 — international trade agreements — the provinces have been pressured to establish interprovincial trade agreements so that c anada is on side with its international commitments.

The ait is certainly the flagship of these domestic efforts. i think my colleague pointed out earlier that these international and interprovincial commitments were made without any consultation with the people of british c olumbia, just as this government negotiated and signed the t rade, investment and l abour Mobility a greement, tilMa, behind closed doors and without any consultation with the people of british c olumbia. i'd like to compare that with the process in the 1990s, when the nDP government was looking at trade agree- ments.

The provincial government had hearings across the province on the Mai, or multilateral agreement on investment. They had hearings that had dozens and dozens of submissions and people appearing before the committee. [1500]

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1151 i'd just like to go back. i had the real pleasure today of being able to go to this wonderful library that we have, and within minutes i had all the documents, the reports, the submissions and so on for the Mai in the 1990s. i have been a bit of a wonk in terms of trade agreements, so it was really great to have that great facility here and to be able to go and use it and enjoy it. i'm just going to read a little bit from what that pro- cess was like in the 1990s.

This is from the submission to the h ouse of c ommons Standing c ommittee on Foreign a ffairs and international t rade on future international trade and investment negotiations, presented by Joan Smallwood, as the c hair, to the h ouse of c ommons in a pril of 1999. it's just a little bit of a

summary of the work that had been done in b.c. b.c. had a special committee on the Mai, and this is what they said. "The multiparty special committee on the Mai was appointed by a unanimous vote in the b.c . l egislative a ssembly on a pril 27, 1998, to review the Mai and related international issues and to increase public awareness about them. "The committee has conducted its work in two stages.

Dur - ing the first stage, held last fall, the committee heard from over 70 expert witnesses, not only from british c olumbia but from across c anada and the u nited States, as well as from France and the e uropean u nion. c opies of the committee's first report, which was issued in January, are being provided to each of you today. additional copies are available at the back of this room. "The second stage of the committee's work involved engaging british c olumbians in a dialogue about the M ai and related international investment issues.

The committee was privileged to have very thoughtful presentations from citizens in t errace, Prince George, n elson, c ourtenay, Surrey, k elowna, k amloops, at ubc in V ancouver and burnaby.

The committee's second report will be tabled in the legislature later this spring." Then, of course, there's a website that people could go to, and the report goes on. i think the important point is the comparison between the approach that british c olumbia took when they were considering whether or not they wanted to be part of, and support, the Mai and what we are dealing with now, with the way not only this government but the fed- eral government is making these commitments without consultation and behind closed doors. i've got to say that at the end of the day, when the people were consulted, they opposed the agreement.

They decided that it was against their own best interests, and they opposed it, and the provincial government of the time approached it…. a gain, compare that with what happened with tilMa — the t rade, investment and l abour Mobility a greement. it was negotiated with a lberta entirely behind closed doors, with absolutely no public consultation. a fter the fact, there was a two-year implementation period for local governments, and during that time the u nion of b.c.

Municipalities, the ubcM, expressed grave concerns about a number of the provisions in the agreement but, essentially, were shut down on almost every single one of their concerns. They were ignored. With the expansion of the agreement on internal trade and labour mobility provisions, which has triggered the need for this enabling legislation which we are talking about today….

The agreement was negotiated behind closed doors, without any public consultation. in fact, there is another piece of this which has to do with enforcement, and there have been small pieces of information — on a federal website, i believe — that indicate that like tilMa there will be penalties of up to $5 million per incident. in other words, you could have millions and millions of dollars if you added up more than one person bringing a claim with regard to certifi- cation. but that part of it we haven't seen at all. i think it's just a question of the government trying to coordinate and do this in a way that they think will get the least attention and that they can slide it in without public discussion.

This is not what i call a democratic process. n ot only is the primary purpose of this agreement to fulfil commitments made by the province, but i would certainly argue it is part of a larger commitment made by this country under international trade agreements. [1505] i want to reiterate that just because this ties us to some international trade agreements or ties us to the commit- ments under ait , that in and of itself is not reason to say that we will not support it. but i think it's important to have that context and that framework and to say that if we are going to enter into any kind of agreement that is tying us, up the ladder, to both federal and international trade agreements, we have to look carefully at it and make sure that we evaluate it very carefully. c anada has negotiated several international trade agreements.

We've made commitments in naFta — that's the n orthern a merican Free t rade a greement — in Gat S, the General a greement on t rade in Services, and in a number of other multilateral or bilateral agreements. a bout the same time as naFta and Gat S were being negotiated was when the c anadian provinces were nego- tiating the agreement on internal trade, or ait , which entered into force on the 1st of July, 1995. While naFta and the various W to agreements deal with external trade, the ait applies many naFta -style rules to trade within and between provinces. i don't think anybody disagrees with the idea of trade.

We certainly have made it clear that we are supportive of labour mobility. but these trade agreements have raised some serious concerns about national sovereignty, democracy and the ability of governments to regulate activities within their respective territories, the ability of governments to decide what they believe is in the best interests of their citizens. u ncertainty about the implications of trade liberaliza- tion has been further heightened by the reliance upon dispute resolution panels to interpret the intricacies and

british c olumbia Debates1152 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 ambiguities of these complex treaties.

interpretation can certainly vary from case to case. one of the things that we were pondering yesterday and trying to figure out when we were sitting down and taking a look at this bill, and some of the questions that we need to ask about it, is that the tilMa and ait dis- putes are resolved by way of tribunals. Those are trade tribunals. We have real concerns about some of those tribunals as well, because they are held behind closed doors. one of the concerns we had about tilMa is that the gov- ernments which may be affected, the local governments, will not be allowed to represent themselves.

They have to rely upon the province that they are in. When an issue is taken by one province and raised against another, then they have to rely on the province. Frankly, i know that in the case of the ubcM, they expressed real concern. They felt that the province had imposed this agreement upon them, this b.c. govern- ment, without real consultation and without listening to their very real concerns about the impact that it could have on issues like zoning and so on.

They felt that if this was the government that was imposing it upon them, how could they rely on this government to represent their interests as municipalities in any kind of dispute that came up before a tribunal?

That was a real concern, and i think we have to remem- ber that concern. a lthough this bill says that the way that you resolve disputes is through the courts, tilMa dispute resolution, as i've just said, is done through panels. it's very unclear — and, again, we'll have to ask these questions in committee — what the mechanism is going to be and what reigns and how the two are going to fit together. c an somebody from another province — particularly a lberta, and perhaps any other province — come to british c olumbia and make a claim that their creden- tials should be accepted? Do they use the tilMa?

Do they use the t rade, investment and l abour Mobility a greement? Do they go through the courts because of bill 11? or do they do some combination of the two? it's very unclear. What is also unclear about the implications of tilMa, which is a much harsher trade agreement in terms of what is imposed upon us, is whether or not the provi- sions of tilMa will actually be superimposed or laid over the provisions of bill 11.

This is very unclear. [1510] i am very concerned that we don't want to take a look at the l abour Mobility a ct without taking into account how these agreements, both here and federally, and internationally, all fit together. i mentioned earlier that i'm a wonk for this stuff. i'll tell you, if anybody ever wants to have a good piece of non-fiction work that can put them to sleep at night, i encourage them to buy, because there are a few copies left still, a copy of a book called Whose Canada? published by McGill–Queen's u niversity Press, in which i wrote a

chapter entitled — the scintillating title — "The impact of t rade a greements on Subnational Governments." For anybody who has trouble sleeping, i highly recom- mend that book. i think there are a few around still. it will cure your inability to sleep. one of the problems with agreements that deal with trade, labour mobility and investment, right from the international agreements and however they fit together down locally, is that the area is so complex and the rules are so arcane that it's often very difficult for people to get their heads around it. i should mention, by the way, that i'm the designated speaker. i forgot to do that. interjections.

K. Corrigan: a m i going to go for two hours? We'll see. i'm very new at this. one of the problems with international trade agree- ments and internal trade agreements and the legislation that flows from them is that the area is so complex and the rules are so arcane that it's very difficult for people to get their heads around it. e ven those that write the legislation of the agreements are, so often, not fully con- versant with the potential impact that they may have.

When tilMa was being inked by this government, a very well-recognized authority on trade agreements spoke to one of the b.c. negotiators, asked some very specific questions about the bill and related to me later that it was not clear to her that this negotiator knew all of the nuances of international trade law and some of the decisions and rulings that had been made. That con- cerns me a little bit. a nother area of concern is that all of these trade agree- ments are untested in many respects.

We simply do not know what the impact is going to be until after we've had challenges under the ait or tilMa or naFta or Wto . Why should we be mentioning the international agree- ments and our concerns about them when we're dealing with the agreement on internal trade?

Well, as highly respected trade lawyer Steven Shrybman points out, while the ait and its offshoots are agreements among and between c anadian governments, it's important to appreciate that this domestic trade agenda is mandated by the federal government's commitments under na Fta and the Wto , for under both treaties c anada is obliged to ensure compliance by provincial governments. c anada promises that provinces and municipalities will comply with the agreement. h owever, constitution- ally, provinces have no obligation to comply with these international agreements. a s Shrybman says, in signing on to naFta and the W to , the federal government's reach exceeded its grasp.

british c olumbia Debatest hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 1153 h ow does the federal government get provinces to follow or comply with the international agreements that they're not obliged to follow? Well, it needed a mechan- ism that would directly bind the provinces to the inter - national commitments it had undertaken, and this was the impetus for the agreement on internal trade. The obligations that the province took on in the agreement on internal trade triggered the need for the legislation that we are dealing with now. i would point out that this bill references and specific- ally ties us to our

chapter 7 obligations of the agreement on internal trade, the obligations that have to do with labour mobility. [1515] i want to again stress that i am very supportive of labour mobility. i've come from labour. i've worked in the labour movement for years, and it's very important that we support labour. but there are some real flaws in this bill. i think that in this route to labour mobility, we need to explore them further before we decide whether we want to support it. i want to get to some of the specifics now. This bill implements

chapter 7 of the agreement on internal trade, and

chapter 7, as has been mentioned before, was rewrit- ten in December 2008 by a conference of labour ministers from across canada. c hapter 7 states, among other things…. it essentially provides that parties to the agreement — i.e., the prov- inces and territories — must work to harmonize their occupational standards and certification requirements. a rticle 701 says: "The purpose of this chapter" —

chapter 7 on labour mobility — "is to eliminate or reduce measures adopted or maintained by the parties that restrict or impair labour mobility in c anada and, in particular, to enable any worker certified for an occupation by a regulatory authority of one party to be recognized as qualified for that occupation by all other parties." The

article which is of the greatest, most salient importance in this, related to bill 11, is

article 706, which has to do with certification of workers. it reads: "Subject to paragraphs 2, 3, 4 and 6 in

article 708, any worker certified for an occupation by a regulatory authority of a party shall, upon application, be certified for that occupation by each other party which regulates that occupation without any require- ment for any material additional training, experience, examina- tions or assessments as part of that certification procedure." Then it goes on to talk about how the r ed Seal is an automatic qualification, and the r ed Seal program cer - tainly has been a strong program in c anada. h owever, on the r ed Seal program, i would point out that while it generally provides for high standards, there are some provinces that have standards higher than the r ed Seal program, so there could continue to be con- cerns from some provinces about that. but certainly, the r ed Seal program has been a good program.

When you read 706, it's very clear what the obligations of each of the provinces are: that one jurisdiction must accept the certification of a worker of another jurisdiction. i read that before looking at the l abour Mobility a ct because when you read the l abour Mobility a ct, it sounds like the regulator in the province will have the opportunity to deny the certification of a worker when they come to british c olumbia and when they hold an extraprovincial certification. bill 11 says, with regard to the application of the agreement.... This is

section 3(1): "Subject to subsection (2), a worker who holds a certification in relation to an extraprovincial occupation may, if there is a bc equivalent occupation in relation to which certification may be issued" — may — "(

a) apply to the applicable bc regulator for certification in relation to that bc equivalent occupation, and (

b) practise the bc equivalent occupation in british c olumbia (

i) after obtaining that certification, and (ii) in accordance with the governing a ct and applicable regulations, bylaws, rules, resolu- tions and measures under that act." it sounds, at first blush, if you just read bill 11 by itself, that it's possible that a regulator in british c olumbia could turn down this certification of a worker from another province if it doesn't meet the same standards of training. [1520] i think the example was given earlier about a four- year versus a two-year training for a social worker. There would be lots and lots of trades and lots of workers in lots of different areas that could have different certifica- tion requirements. When you read

section 3 of the bill, it sounds like that has been put in reserve, but you also have to read that in the context of the fact that the bill very clearly says that this bill is subject to the provisions of

chapter 7 of the agree- ment on internal trade. it defers to

chapter 7. a nd

chapter 7,

article 706, was the

article that i just read out. t o me, it's very clear in

article 706 that somebody must be certified — unless they meet a couple of excep- tions, they must be certified — and that the regulatory authority will not have the ability to turn down anybody if they have certification in another jurisdiction. i have real concerns about that and want to know how it is that we are going to ensure that our standards and standards of other provinces are held up, instead of having what could become a race to the bottom as workers and jurisdictions realize that you could go and get certification in another province, perhaps, where it's easy to get certification. or somebody from another province will come here. it's easier to get certification, go to another province, get certification in two years and then come back to british c olumbia and practise. a nother feature of this bill which concerns me is the fact that the ratcheting down that is there, potentially, is just that — ratcheting down.

There is no ratcheting up, because the complaint that's being brought under this bill is the complaint by the party that feels they should be able to qualify when they don't have high enough qualifications from another jurisdiction. i assume that if the other provinces enact legislation in order to comply with an agreement that they have all agreed to — and all have agreed to

article 706; that's

british c olumbia Debates1154 t hursday, o ctober 8, 2009 what every single province signed on to in late 2008 — they're all going to have to put in similar legislation. i simply don't know how, if they're complying with that which they signed up for, they're going to avoid that same problem. So across the country we're going to have juris- dictions potentially having the certification requirements ratcheted down, but there is no ability to ratchet up.

That's why i talk about how i would prefer to see a system, such as has happened in the past, where the harmonization of their certification requirements has been done by way of negotiation between provinces. Sometimes you may find that the certification require- ment of one province is a little higher or a little lower, and you end up somewhere in the middle. but you get people who understand sitting down and talking about it.

Y ou have input from people who are experts. h opefully, you have input from the workers who are involved. instead, this defaults to a court pro- cedure, where somebody comes in and it's decided by a judge. i think the better way to do it would be to have people who are knowledgable about a particular occupation sit- ting down interprovincially, discussing this and coming up with appropriate levels of certification. So that's cer - tainly one of my concerns. i'd also like to point out that it's a difficult process, and handing it over to the courts, i think, undervalues the importance of the process.

With tilMa there was at least this two-year process where there were negotia- tions that went on between b.c. and a lberta in terms of harmonizing the requirements for some of the trades. [1525] n ow, that was not done publicly. i'm not aware of how it was done, exactly, but at least that did happen. The fact that it took a couple of years of hard work to harmonize some of those tricky ones, where the levels were higher or lower between b.c. and a lberta….

The fact that it took two years to do that, to me, indicates that it is not giving enough…. it's not respecting the importance of understanding that certification and the certification process enough if you hand it over to a judge. a judge, frankly, is not qualified, i don't believe, to make decisions about that. Then you end up in a court situation where each of the parties is making their sub- missions. it's expensive, and who is going to pay for it? is it going to be that regulatory authority? That's what happens. The person goes to the regula- tory authority. They make their application.

They are turned down in british c olumbia — or in another prov- ince, if it's going to be in several provinces. if they're turned down by the regulatory authority…. i suspect that there will be many cases when they are, because we are hearing back from some of the regula- tory authorities that they're concerned. if that happens, then they're turned down. The next step is for them to go to court. That, of course, would mean that the expenses of the court process would be borne by whom?

Would it be borne by the regulatory authorities? i know that these various regulatory authorities are certainly not made of money. i was involved once work- ing with a group that was looking to be regulated in the province of british c olumbia, and it was simply a ques- tion of money. it was too expensive for the members, because it's the members who have to support that.

What you're going to end up having are these profes- sional workers, some who are in professions where they don't make a lot of money, being asked to pay for court challenges by workers in other provinces. i want to reiterate that this is not to say that i am opposed to labour mobility. i'm absolutely supportive, but we've got to make sure that we're doing it in an appropri- ate way. i think the costs and the bureaucracy associated with this process….

That is certainly another legitimate concern that i have. [c. t revena in the chair.] i want to talk, also, just for a minute or two about the issue of legitimate objectives. it certainly is true that

article 708 of the agreement on internal trade — which of course will then be incorporated into and is, i believe, specifically referenced in bill 11 — does provide some scope for governments to say that they can oppose the certification of a worker because there is a good reason why they should not be able to do that.

There are several legitimate objectives that are men- tioned in the legislation: public security and safety; public order; protection of human, animal, plant life or health; protection of the environment; consumer protection and protection of the health, safety and well-being of work- ers; provision of adequate social and health services to all its geographic regions; and programs for disadvantaged groups — which is good, that we have some legitimate objectives that can be used. u nfortunately, i've read some of the decisions that have been made under trade law that consider whether or not the standards that need to be met for establish- ing these legitimate objectives have been met. in the past those standards have been very narrowly constru

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1008pm-05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1008pm 05
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	94aa0938c7e88f48ae2fa05987167c862c878463

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