Manitoba Hansard — 15 April 2024 (Sitting 43, 43rd Legislature, 1st Session)

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Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-Third Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Tom Lindsey Speaker Vol. LXXVIII No. 43 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, April 15, 2024 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Third Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello, Hon. Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma, Hon. Union Station NDP BALCAEN, Wayne Brandon West PC BEREZA, Jeff Portage la Prairie PC BLASHKO, Tyler Lagimodière NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian, Hon. Keewatinook NDP BYRAM, Jodie Agassiz PC CABLE, Renée, Hon. Southdale NDP CHEN, Jennifer Fort Richmond NDP COOK, Kathleen Roblin PC CROSS, Billie Seine River NDP DELA CRUZ, Jelynn Radisson NDP DEVGAN, JD McPhillips NDP EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni, Hon. St.

Johns NDP GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC HIEBERT, Carrie Morden-Winkler PC JACKSON, Grant Spruce Woods PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC KENNEDY, Nellie Assiniboia NDP KHAN, Obby Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP KING, Trevor Lakeside PC KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Dauphin NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom, Hon. Flin Flon NDP LOISELLE, Robert St. Boniface NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya, Hon. Notre Dame NDP MOROZ, Mike River Heights NDP MOSES, Jamie, Hon. St.

Vital NDP MOYES, Mike Riel NDP NARTH, Konrad La Vérendrye PC NAYLOR, Lisa, Hon. Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC OXENHAM, Logan Kirkfield Park NDP PANKRATZ, David Waverley NDP PERCHOTTE, Richard Selkirk PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP SALA, Adrien, Hon. St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHMIDT, Tracy, Hon. Rossmere NDP SCHOTT, Rachelle Kildonan-River East NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SIMARD, Glen, Hon. Brandon East NDP SMITH, Bernadette, Hon.

Point Douglas NDP STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STONE, Lauren Midland PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt, Hon. Concordia NDP WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

1243 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, April 15, 2024 The House met at 1:30 p.m. The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and the Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and treaty and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS The Speaker: I have a report to table. I am pleased to table the annual report of the Legislative Assembly Management Com mission for the year ending March 31st, 2024. Copies of the report have been placed on the members' desks. Any other reports? Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Cerebral Palsy Association of Manitoba Mr. Tyler Blashko (Lagimodière): Honourable Speaker, I am pleased to rise in recognition of the Cerebral Palsy Association of Manitoba.

Having begun as a small association by parents of kids with cerebral palsy in 1974, CPAM has since grown into a province-wide organization with multiple staff and hundreds of community members. This year, the com- munity celebrates CPAM's 50th anniversary. CPAM advocates for adults and children with CP on both a systemic and individual basis. They help refer folks to proper supports and have created a fund for clinicians and researchers who focus on addressing the quality of life issues for people affected by CP.

They also provide supports in the form of a scholar- ship to post-secondary institutions, equipment grants for things like specialized bikes and gear that help everyone participate in th e fun things in life, and they're partners in CoHabit, a housing initiative that will build universal communal homes for 120 adults with physical disabilities right here in Winnipeg. Most of all, CPAM serves as a community hub for folks with cerebral palsy and their families to connect at community events, holiday parties, Goldeyes games, cycling races and more. It's a place for fun, relation - ships and community.

To mark their 50th anniversary, CPAM is hosting two major fundraisers this year: their 30th a nnual Westman's stationary bike race on April 20 in Brandon and their 35th annual stationary bike race on May 11 in Winnipeg. For years, both events have drawn in dozens of teams who've raised hundreds of thousands of dol- lars in support of folks with CP across the province. CPAM has a saying: Life is hard, and we just want to make it just a little bit better.

Honourable Speaker, I invite all members to recognize David Kron, Tara Schaan, Suzanna Schanel, Pamela Mason, Stephanie Butler, Sheryl Miller, Manveer Seehra and Jhaz Navidad, for their extraordinary commitment to the CP com - munity here in Manitoba. Carman Health Auxiliary Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): I am pleased to rise in the House today to honour the Carman Health Auxiliary, who celebrated 120 years of service on January 25. Today in the gallery, we are joined by current volunteers of the auxiliary. Over the past 120 years, it has accomplished a lot for health-care needs of Carman and the surrounding areas.

In 1903, when the need for a hospital was identified by the growing community, two women took the

1244 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 initial steps towards the construction of a hospital. They canvassed the community for $200 to start building construction. The following year, 10 women formed the first Women's Hospital Aid Society. The Carman General Hospital was completed in 1905 at a cost of $6,500, along with donations from the provincial government, the RM of Dufferin and the Town of Carman. The auxiliary supported the RN nursing program from 1908 to 1947. By 1948, the group committed to furnishing a three-bed ward in the new building at the Carman Memorial Hospital.

This building was then replaced by the present hospital, which opened in 1982. The Carman Health Auxiliary officially became a charitable organization in 1975. The name of the group has changed over the years, but not their mission, which is: a group of volunteers that strive to enhance the provision of quality health care for the Carman and area population. Thank you for all the work that you do for the com- munity, and congratulations on celebrating 120 years. The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland. Mrs. Stone: I ask for leave to submit the names of the current members into Hansard.

The Speaker: Does the member have leave? [Agreed] Leave has been granted.

Carman Health Auxiliary members: Val Adams; Hilda Beichter; Donalda Bell; Shannon Bergsma; Muriel Derksen; Margaret Dracass; Susan Eastveld; Melissa Emerson-Froebe; Pauline Emerson-Froebe; Margie Fay; Christine Findlay; Kathie Findlay; Pat Findlay; Charlie Froebe; Evelyn Froebe; Madie Gylywoychuk-Winkler; Della Heaman; Betty Hill; Lucille Johnston; Ruth Johnston; Laureen Kippen; Wilma Kissick; Audrey Klassen; Bonnie Latimer; Marj Lehmann; Florence Lepp; Gail Maclean; Marie Maclean; Gwen McClement; Mary McGill; Susan Mooney; Bonnie Owen; Judie Owen; Betty Park; Norma Peckover; Deb Penner; Allen Peters; Dorothy Peters; Fran Phillips; Darlene Pritchard; Liz Rempel; Sandy Sinclair; Helen Stewart; Darlene Swain; Jane Swanton; Helen Toews; Sherri Unger; Betty Vandermeulen; Leta Wilson.

Northern Manitoba Affordability Measures Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas -Kameesak): On April 2, our NDP government released it s first provincial budget, delivering real relief to Manitoba families who have been feeling squeezed by unprece- dented rising costs. This government's homeowners affordability tax credit will result in savings for 83.9 per cent of Manitoba households, compared to the previous school tax rebate and Education Property Tax Credit system. For Manitobans in the North, this percentage is even higher and the saving is even more impactful.

Northern communities did not benefit nearly as much as urban folks under the previous education property tax rebate scheme, because we don't have the same kind of pressures on home prices that have we seen–that we've seen in Winnipeg and other cites. The new homeowners affordability tax credit will see everyone receive a $1,5 00 tax credit on their principal residence. It is a more equitable and fair way to get more money back into the pockets of all Manitobans, especially for those who need it the most.

The cost of living in the North has been increasing at a dramatic rate, and the cost of food and trans - portation has been rising even faster than the national average. With our gas tax holiday extended for another three months, Budget 2024 has given us the tools we need to build up our robust northern economy and tackle these problems. * (13:40) Our government continues to show its commit - ment to work alongside northern communities in search of real solutions that work for everyone.

Together, we will create a hopeful future in northern Manitoba; a future that our kids and the many generations to come will be proud of. Ekosi. PhiBer Manufacturing Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): Honourable Speaker, it's my pleasure to rise in this House today to recognize PhiBer Manufacturing, out of Crystal City, for their great work and innovation. When Phil Friesen thought of a more efficient way to spread large square bales, he recruited Harvey Bergen to help him build his solution and take it to the market. It is easy to identify problems.

What Phil and Harvey did was take it to the next step: finding solutions. In 1996, PhiBer had been manufacturing solutions to problems that farmers might experience. As they say: made for farmers, by farmers. And that's the mindset that we need to take with us every day, not just identifying problem s but also

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1245 take the extra step. Phil and his team at PhiBer are doing this as they combine their own experiences with what they hear from the other farmers. Now they have 12 different designs to address and eliminate problems that farmers encounter. Local businesses, like PhiBer, is why the RM of Louise has outpacing the provincial average on growth, encountering a narrative that people are leaving the farming communities.

In 2020, PhiBer won the innovation award at Ag In Motion farm show that their triple cutter, which managed to increase production with dramatically reducing fuel costs. Solutions like this are allowing farmers to do three times more work at once, and potentially, fuel savings of 50 to 75 per cent compared to other methods. And they are doing this with equipment that works for what Manitoba farmers already have. That's the Manitoba innovation we need to encourage. To the team at PhiBer, keeping doing what you're doing; you're putting Manitoba on the map for the right reasons. Thank you, Honourable Speaker.

Leo Jansens Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): Today I rise in recognition of Leo Jansens, whose stationary store, Pen and Paper, has served our Rossmere community for the past 35 years. In 1989, Leo began Pen and Paper at a time when large office supply stores were beginning to expand, putting pressure on smaller stationary stores. However, Pen and Paper thrived by working closely with small businesses, places of worship and community groups who were looking for personalized orders.

Leo is well-known and respected in northeast Winnipeg, and northeast Winnipeggers trust Pen and Paper to meet their unique needs. Pen and Paper also offered printing services, but Leo gave so much more. Over the years, he helped many from the local Punjabi community and other newcomer families looking for assistance with paper- work. Leo walked alongside those who sought to put down roots here in Manitoba and became a true com- munity leader. Leo has always put people over profit and has made many friends and connections in the community. Now, Leo is retiring after 35 years of running Pen and Paper.

With the shift to online shopping, the stationary store is experiencing a gradual decline in sales and decided to close at the end of last month. However, Leo is passing on the business to a local young entrepreneur who has a new vision for the shop. He sees this as the end of Pen and Paper, but it is the start of a new business that he is passing on to the next generation. It's a chance for new life again. Pen and Paper has been an incredible neighbour to everyone. I know Leo's generosity of spirit and community-minded business principles will continue to resonate throughout our community.

Please join me in congratulating Leo Jansens for his incredible contributions to our province. * * * Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I ask leave to revert back to tabling of reports, please. The Speaker: Is there leave to revert back to tabling of reports? [Agreed] TABLING OF REPORTS (Continued) Hon. Renée Cable (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): I'm pleased to table the 2022- 23 annual report for Assiniboine Com munity College, and the 2022- 2023 annual report for Manitoban Institute of Trades and Technology.

Introduction of Guests The Speaker: Before we proceed, I'd like to introduce some guests in the public gallery. I would like to draw the attention of all honour - able members t o the public gallery where we have with us today Alex Struthers, who is the guest of the honourable member for Riding Mountain (Mr. Nesbitt) and the honour able member for Swan River (Mr. Wowchuk). On behalf of all honour able members, we wel - come you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Provincial Carbon Tax Government Plan Mr.

Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): Honourable Speaker, the Prime Minister said it can't be free to pollute. And the Premier (Mr. Kinew) isn't credible on this issue because of the many, many, many flip-flops. Much like Greg Selinger, this NDP leader says one thing and will do another.

1246 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Will the Deputy Premier –because I can't get the correct answers from the Premier (Mr. Kinew)–will the Deputy Premier stand up in their place today and come clean on their carbon tax plan to Manitobans? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): I thank the Leader of the Opposition for that question on an issue that is top of mind for Manitobans across this province, and that's affordability. You know, our government has taken some pretty significant steps.

I'm very proud to say that January 1, we did what the previous PC gov ernment refused to do: we eliminated the fuel tax for Manitobans on January 1. Honourable Speaker, 14 cents a litre gone for Manitobans. Honourable Speaker, Manitobans can trust that when our government says we're going to take action to make life more affordable, that we are going to deliver. That's what Budget 2024 does. We're making investments to make life more affordable for Manitobans across this province. For over seven and a half years, the previous PC government did nothing.

The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Still today, no answers, even coming from this Deputy Premier. Still no answers coming from the Premier as well. Manitobans are quickly learning that the NDP government flip-flop tactics. Deputy Premier has the opportunity today in the House to change that. The Prime Minister's challenge to the provinces is essentially to replace his carbon tax with another. No so-called net- zero plan or talk from this Premier can change that.

Can the Deputy Premier please, for once, share their carbon tax plan with Manitobans, yes or no? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, you know, I remember from 2019 to 2023, Manitobans pleading for help, Manitobans asking the previous government for help to make their lives more affordable. Honourable Speaker, I'm not sure if you can recall what the previous government did, but on this side of the House, we sure do. Every single day they charge Manitobans a fuel tax. Every single day they found new ways to legis late increases to the cost of hydro for Manitobans, something that had never been done before.

Well, Hon ourable Speaker, on this side of the House, we are committed to making life more afford- able for Manitobans; that's reflected in our Budget 2024. We're going to keep taking steps in a direction the previous government didn't bother to go. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Ewasko: Same tired talking points of their leader of the NDP. Let's recap: Manitobans challenged the carbon tax under our PC gov ernment. Manitoba later failed to sign letters called for meetings under the NDP. Most premiers in Canada are fighting the carbon tax.

Manitoba's Premier is not. We've heard it from the Prime Minister; he's excited to work with the Manitoba's Premier on a carbon tax. There's no path forward without one. Why won't the Deputy Premier stand up in their place and be transparent with Manitobans about what scheme the Premier and the Prime Minister are cooking up and how much is it going to cost Manitobans? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, Manitobans do not trust the Leader of the Op position nor any member opposite, and that is why they voted them out of government on October 3 here in our province.

What Manitobans do trust is that our NDP gov - ernment is putting affordability at the top of the list of priorities for Manitobans. We cut the fuel tax down to zero on January 1. We're intro ducing measures that are going to make life more affordable for home - owners across this province while making sure we're investing in health care and education for kids across Manitoba.

Honourable Speaker, members opposite suddenly are trying to pret end they care about affordability when in reality, for seven and a half years, they made life more expensive for Manitobans. * (13:50) We'll take no lessons from members opposite. Health-Care Worker Recruitment and Retention Competitive Tax Environment Concerns Mr. Obby Khan (Fort Whyte): Honourable Speaker, I'm hoping this Deputy Premier can please 'sedsh' some light on this NDP's no- doctor-plan doctor tax.

This Deputy Premier, as the Health Minister, has made irresponsible and misleading promi ses when it comes to attracting health-care workers to Manitoba.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1247 The facts are that this Health Minister and every- one on that side of the NDP will be increasing the taxes on hard-working doctors in Manitoba. You don't attract people to Manitoba by increasing the amount of taxes they pay. Can the Deputy Premier (MLA Asagwara) tell Manitobans how they are possibly going to attract doctors and health-care professionals to this province under this NDP, when this NDP government is raising taxes on them? Hon. Adrien Sala (Minister of Finance): Honour- able Speaker, here's how we're going to do it.

We're going to do it by bringing forward, as we have with this budget, 21 new ways to save Manitobans money. Not that complicated. We're very excited to encou rage people to con- sider making Manitoba their home by reducing–or increasing our brackets, by bringing forward a broad middle-tax cut that will ensure more Manitobans can keep money in their pockets. That'll make it a much more attractive place for people to move to Manitoba, whether they be doctors, nurses.

We've also, of course, brought in our gas tax holi- day for another three months, doubling the fertility tax credit–I could go on and go on and on, and I'm going to do that in my next response. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a supplementary question. Mr. Khan: Honourable Speaker, I'd asked the deputy minister to stand up, as the Minister of Health; they do not want to stand up and answer. The Minister of Finance, for some reason–I'll ask the Deputy Premier again–and the Minister of Health–if they will answer this question.

How can this Minister of Health possibly think that by taxing hard-working middle-class Manitobans, that they will attract more people to Manitoba? Under this NDP gov ernment no -doctor plan, they are going to raise the taxes on doctors in Manitoba. How can this Minister of Health possibly think that they will attract doctors to this province when this NDP government is going to raise their taxes? MLA Sala: This NDP government is lowering taxes for Manitobans. End of story. The member's got to get his facts straight. How are we going to attract people here? Again, I'll go back to my list; I was at number five.

I'm going to move to number six. Free prescription birth control, $10-a-day child care all year round, 5 per cent lower auto insurance rates, 300 per cent security system rebate for families, and, of course, rebates for folks who want to buy an EV. So many ways to save, thanks to our government. So many great affordability measures in this budget. Can't wait to talk about more of them in my next answer. The Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Whyte, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Khan: Honourable Speaker, again, not one answer from the Minister of Finance or the Minister in Health.

They are–and the facts say in their budget, they are increasing the taxes on doctors working in this pro- vince. They are removing the basic personal tax from high-earning Manitobans, from doctors, from univer- sity professors, from managers, from engineers, from lawyers, from technicians, from 'artitects' –architects. They are increasing taxes on all of them. This NDP gov ernment thinks that by punishing hard-working Manitobans, somehow they're going to magically attract more people to come to this province.

Can the Deputy Premier, Minister of Health, tell us how it is responsi ble, logical or even fair to think that they can tax hard- working middle -class Manitobans to pay for the NDP's– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. MLA Sala: For years, Hon ourable Speaker, the op - position made life harder for Manitobans. What are we doing? We're making life easier. Right? I'll tell them. How are we going to do it? We're doing it by lowering the tax burden on Manitobans. Listen up. He won't take yes for an answer, Honour - able Speaker.

We're lowering the tax burden on Manitobans in multiple ways by bringing in a broad tax cut that's–are going to benefit Manitobans across– [interjection] The Speaker: Order. MLA Sala: –the province. Including our $1,500 home- owner affordability tax credit that's going to put money in pockets of Manitobans, those who need it most. We're doing the good work; they made life more expensive. We're making life more affordable.

1248 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Health-Care Worker Recruitment and Retention Strategic Recruitment Team Staffing Concerns Mrs. Kathleen Cook (Roblin): Anonymous sources from inside Shared Health reached out this week with an extremely con cerning report. Last week the NDP fired half of the Shared Health strategic recruitment team. This team's main goal was to target hard -to-find medical specialists to come and work in Manitoba. These specialized staff are hard to find due to their general scarcity, and they often require a targeted ap- proach to attract them to Manitoba.

That's why, up until last week, there was a strategic recruitment team dedicated to attracting and retaining them in Manitoba. Why did the minister fire recruiters ex perienced with bringing health-care workers to Manitoba? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): Honour- able Speaker, our gov ernment has taken steps from our first day of being in gov ernment to do the work the previous government refused to do: retain health- care workers, recruit and train health -care workers across Manitoba.

Our government is also doing something the pre- vious government never did: we are standing up a re - cruitment and retention office that is going to be focused on bringing people together under one effort to make sure that we've got the staffing capacity in our province that Manitobans deserve. Now, I recognize that these efforts are unknown to members opposite. I'd be happy to fill them in on what our efforts looks like and how we're getting it done for Manitobans, something that they didn't bother to do in seven and a half years.

The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final–no, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: This team was trained to fill hard -to-fill positions in Manitoba, and now as we've he ard, half of that team has been fired by the Minister of Health. That's up to five recruitment specialists no longer working to fill vacancies in our health-care system. With no tangible plan to attract, train or retain health-care workers in Manitoba, and now no staff to do it, the NDP seems to already be breaking their budget promises.

Why is the minister firing recruiters whose sole job it is to find health -care workers to work here in Manitoba? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, aside from what the member opposite being patently untrue, I find it interesting that members opposite would stand up and talk about staffing when they fired hundreds of health-care workers from our health-care system. Those are the same folks that didn't allow para - medics to work to their full scope in rural Manitoba. These are the same people that cut over 500 beds from our health-care system and cut the staff that staffed those very beds.

These are the same people who treated health-care workers with contempt and disrespect for seven and a half years. We are taking a different approach. We're bringing people together. We're consolidating the effort to make sure Manitobans have the health-care workforce they deserve. The Speaker: The honourable member for Roblin, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Cook: This NDP government, this Health Minister, told Manitobans they had all the answers. They were going to fix everything.

The NDP government's offer- ing no incentives, no recruitment programs, no staff to even support people moving to Manitoba, tax hikes targeting specialized doctors and increasing the cost of housing. Manitoba is quickly becoming the least attractive province in Canada for health-care workers due to this NDP government. Can the minister please explain–I'll try one more time: Why did they fire these recruiters? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, let's talk about their record. They undertook an emission to bring folks from overseas. They planned to have 300 health -care workers by July of last year.

By October of this year, they had six. I call that a failure on their part. They had a contract with a private company to hire doctors. How many doctors have been hired under their contract? Zero. Their approach to health -care workers was to treat them with so much disrespect they left the public health-care system. Whose record is that? Their record. Under our government we're investing in health- care workers in Manitoba. We're staffing up beds. We're adding capacity. We're treating them with respect. We're taking a different approach.

We'll take no lessons from that member or any member opposite when it comes to staffing health care in Manitoba.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1249 Community Supportive Living for Seniors Funding Concerns in Budget 2024 Mr. Derek Johnson (Interlake-Gimli): Honourable Speaker, in this gov ernment's budget, the NDP cut five of six planned personal-care homes. * (14:00) The PC gov ernment proudly delivered a seniors strategy for aging with dignity that not only included six personal-care homes, but also included other housing options, including a community supportive living pro- gram. There is no mention of that program in their budget.

Can the minister tell us why community support- ive living for seniors was cut from the budget? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): Honour- able Speaker, I welcome the question from the member opposite in terms of long-term care, community care. These are all areas that we know are really important to Manitobans across the province.

We also know that these are areas that the pre- vious gov ernment didn't actually plan to execute, which is why just a couple of weeks ago–a few weeks ago I was thrilled that the Leader of the Op position and this membe r joined our gov ernment in Lac du Bonnet to announce the new personal-care home that is going to get built by our government alongside that community. That was a great announcement and it's–reflects our government's commitment to improving these services for Manitoba, including com munity assisted living services.

Budget 2024 makes investments in communities for Manitobans and it moves us in a much better direc- tion so that people can age in place in their own com- munities across Manitoba. The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake- Gimli, on a supplementary question. Mr. Johnson: Honourable Speaker, the member knows seniors with complex health needs do not always require a personal-care home, but they deserve afford- able h ousing with on- site care supports that are available closer to home so they can continue to live independent lives in the communities they call home.

The com munity support ive living program was supported by the Manitoba clinical and pre ventative service plan. So I ask the minister again: Why was this program cut from the budget? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, Budget 2024 is investing in community. It's investing in services so that Manitobans, regardless of where their needs are, can get the care that they need in their own com mu- nities.

We're investing in making sure that folks not only have more health -care aides and home- care workers in our communities but they have the allied health-care professionals that can discharge them from the hospitals and get them home so they can continue to recover. We're investing in working with partners across the health -care system to strengthen these services across Manitoba,

whereas the previous gov ernment cut services in rural Manitoba, in the North and, quite frankly, here in Winnipeg as well. We're taking a different approach with a prov - incial lens for all Manitobans. The Speaker: The honourable member for Interlake- Gimli, on a final supplementary question. Mr. Johnson: Community supportive living program guides residents to housing within their com munity, accessing appropriate levels of support. We heard through extensive consultations then–when it is safe, seniors want to age in their communities, and this is ultimate- ly achieved through programs like this.

On this side of the House, we know that Manitoban seniors should not be forced to stay in hospitals but in appropriate facilities within their commu nities. Our seniors strategy presented a real plan to keep sen iors in their homes and com munities longer, living with dignity. Why does this minister insist on evicting seniors from their homes, communities and support networks?

MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, not only is our Budget 2024 investing in seniors and those in com- munity having access to greater supports so that they can age in place in their communities if they choose, we're also investing in improving capacity in hospitals so that folks who are admitted can be discharged in a timely way. Now, I find it interesting that the member oppo- site is standing up on a parti cular question like this given that under his previous gov ernment they cut over 500 beds from across hospitals, across the pro- vince.

That directly affects the ability for seniors to be discharged from hospital, to get into the beds they

1250 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 need, in a timely way and to ultimately return to their communities. The previous gov ernment cut so much capacity from our health-care system that we can't respond to flu season. But that's okay. Our– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. Boundary Trails Health Centre Number of Beds Available Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): Can the minister please inform the House on how many beds are currently active and operational at Boundary Trails Health Centre? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): I thank the member for this question about Boundary Trails.

We've had the opportunity to meet with the leadership there many, many times, actually, in the last several months, and I want to commend those folks for doing a lot of great work, leadership, with com munity to improve capacity. And I thought it was really interesting that when we went there and we sat with leadership at Boundary Trails, they hadn't had a meeting with the Health Minister there in a very, very long time. They were pleasantly surprised that our gov ernment was so engaged.

Assuring these folks we're going to remain engaged and improve capacity there at Boundary Trails and across the Southern Health region. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden - Winkler, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Hiebert: Numerous health-care workers in my constituency reached out this weekend with concerns of the state of Boundary Trails Health Centre. Another 12 beds were t aken off-line. This is after months of juggling bed operations at the facility. These workers are concerned about bed availability so that –because so many have been taken off-line at once.

Boundary Trails serves both Morden and Winkler, but also all of s outh central Manitoba. Tens of thou- sands of Manitobans rely on it running smoothly. Can the minister please confirm for my con stit- uents why these beds were taken off -line and when they will be operational again? MLA Asagwara: Honourable Speaker, we have been working closely with Boundary Trails over the past couple of months to support their efforts as they've been working with their front -line nurses to develop plans that support ongoing capacity.

Unfortunately, under the previous govern ment, there were cuts made to the physician rural recruit - ment and retention fund. Those cuts to that fund made it very difficult for rural commu nities, including in Boundary Trails, to have the physicians needed to support their services. Our government is working with them to restore that fund, maintain those invest ments, recruit the health care needed and make sure that those beds are open for Manitobans. The Speaker: The honourable member for Morden - Winkler, on a final supplementary question. Mrs.

Hiebert: Boundary Trails has an over 52 per cent staff vacancy rate as reported by media in February. Similar problems are happening across rural facilities across Manitoba, yet the NDP have not brought forward a tangible plan to attract, retain or recruit health-care workers in Manitoba. As we heard f rom my colleague today, they're actually firing recruiters. Rural health -care facilities serve many roles for many com munities across Manitoba. Sudden losses in capacity impact these com- munities drastically.

I'm asking a simple question of the minist er that deserves a response for my con stituents: Why were these beds taken off -line and when will they be operational again? MLA Asagwara: I appreciate that question from the member opposite, and I can assure her, and she can assure her constituents, that we're going to continue to work closely with Boundary Trails to support them having the capacity that they need. I would encourage that member opposite to ask her colleagues on that side of the House, why is it that the previous gov ernment cut th e rural physician re - cruitment and retention fund?

Why is it that they refused to meet with or visit Boundary Trails when they had time for seven and a half years to work directly with them to improve capacity? Why is it that they mistreated health-care workers and forced them out of the health-care system? Why is it they cut over 500 beds from hospitals across the province? Our government's taking a different approach. We're working with them, not against them, to im prove capacity, including addressing those beds at Boundary Trails.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1251 Child and Family Services Child Protection Budget Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, I previously asked the Minister of Families questions regarding cuts to Winnipeg Child and Family Services and rural and northern CFS. The minister responded there were no cuts. However, her de partment con - tradicted this and said there were cuts to financial assistance for child protection. Myah-Lee Gratton needed protection, yet this minis- ter failed her, and her life was cut far too short.

Can the minister explain to Manitobans why she's cutting funding for child protec tion this year when vulnerable children, like Myah, need those resources the most? Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): I say miigwech to the member opposite for the question. As I stated before, there is no dollars, no funding that is being taken out of the CFS system. I think that's like the third or fourth time that I've stood up in the House to reiterate and put facts on the record that the member keeps putting erroneous facts. In fact, we are investing over $420 million into child welfare.

We're also continuing to evaluate and adjust funding to deal with some of the inequities within the system, including in the sout hern and northern authorities. So, again, we are not taking any money out of the child welfare system. In fact, we've put more. Miigwech. The Speaker: The honourable member for Midland, on a supplementary question. Death of Child in CFS Care Public Reporting on Internal Review Mrs.

Lauren Stone (Midland): Honourable Speaker, the budget doesn't lie, and clearly this minister has been too busy to read their own budget. * (14:10) Last week, I asked the Minister of Families if she would commit to a public inquiry regarding the ter - rible situation that happened to Myah on February 11. The minister has refused a public inquiry and said an internal review would be sufficient and would be completed by the end of this month. Will the minister comm it today to making all aspects of this review public and transparent? Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Minister of Families): First and foremost, again, on behalf of our government, we want to send our profound love and deepest con dol- ences to the family of M yah. It is an unfortunate and tragic death that nobody –no com munity, no family wants to see and wants to go through. So certainly, I want to lift up the family and en - sure that they know that us on this side of the House do support them. And in fact, our Premier (Mr. Kinew) supported them in very real ways by attending the vigil and the funeral.

Again, let me just reiterate that our commit ment is to reforming child welfare, decolonizing child wel- fare and putting the resources that we need to best support families– The Speaker: Member's time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, on a final supplementary question. Mrs. Stone: I will ask the minister a very simple yes- or-no question. Will she commit to making the review from the in- dependent internal investigation public for Manitobans, yes or no?

MLA Fontaine: When this tragedy occurred, myself, as minister responsible, and our team immediately went into action to ensure that there is a comprehensive and robust review of the totality of what occurred in Carman and that tragic death. Again, it is the responsi bility of the minister to ensure that all children are protected and are safe in care that we have in our agencies and within our com- munities. That is what we are focused on.

That is the priority of myself and our de partment, is to continue prioritizing the protection of children that are in care and leaning into– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Security Concerns at HSC Secured Parking Request MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): The security situation at HSC has reached a boiling point, and MNU, the Manitoba Nurses Union, has given Shared Health 30 days to create a safety plan. Security concerns at HSC is not a new issue. I brought this forward in QP on Dece mber 4 of last year.

We understand that in stitutional safety officers have been deployed, but nurses and health profession- als want more assurances that their concerns are being taken seriously by this government.

1252 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Will the Minister of Health commit today to securing and restricting access to all parking facilities at HSC with 24-7 security to monitor safety? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): I welcome that question and I thank the member for that really important question. I've had the chance to look at the arbitrator's recommendations, and certainly, that is a part of the arbitrator's recommendations. It's important to note that, under the previous gov- ernment, in stitutional safety officers were never in place. Under our government, we made that a priority.

Institutional safety officers are at place–or on site, rather, at HSC, and are rolling out across the province. And I gave ad ditional directive, as well, for those officers to carry pepper gel. There's much more work that needs to be done. We're actively doing that work. I had a good conver - sation with MNU and the leadership at HSC and Shared Health last week on this issue. The Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a supplementary question.

Private Health-Care Spending Cost for Agency Nurses MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I'd like to quote a page in Hansard where our Minister of Health, two years ago, as opposi tion critic at the time , said, and I quote, the government's over-reliance on agency care is destabilizing the public system. And I table this now. Honourable Speaker, it turns out that while the former critic criticized the previous gov ernment for spending too much money, spe cifically $46 million on agency nurses, they, as the minister, has reached an all-time high and is spending $56 million on agency nurses.

Can the minister explain this discrepancy and why private health care spending has risen to an all-time high under this government? Hon. Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): I think that's a really important question and I welcome that. You know, after over seven and a half years of the previous government driving nurses out of the public system into the private system, our gov ernment has been working from day one to r eset and repair the relationship with these nurses. Our listening tour has been going very well, listening to these nurses on the front lines.

We are seeing a lot of engagement with nurses who are coming back from the private system into the public sy stem by way of the nursing float pool, which Budget 2024 invests in expanding across the province. So we're taking real steps to motivate and en - courage and support nurses to come back to the public system. We're going to keep doing that work. We didn't get here overnight; it was seven and a half years of cuts, closures and– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary question.

Agency Nurse Spending Request for Budget Cap MLA Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Agency nurse spending unveils a more systemic issue at hand, which is the amount of staffing vacancies. It is be - coming less and less attractive to work in the public system, when agencies can attract nurses with the incentives of higher pay. Will the minister commit today to instituting a cap on agency nurse spending, and will they commit to ensuring that agency nurse spending does not continue to increase? Hon.

Uzoma Asagwara (Deputy Premier): We cer- tainly do want to see agency nurse spending move in a more sustainable direction. That's why we've taken real action to help repair the relationship with front -line nurses and welcome them back into the public system. It's why our budget invests in enhancing and ex - panding the nursing provincial float pool. There are a lot of nurses–hundreds of nurses–who have expressed an interest in coming back into the public system via that pathway, and we're making it easier for them. But, fundamentally, Honourable Speaker, it's about changing the culture in health care.

And our gov ern- ment is doing that work each and every day: treating health-care workers with respect, valuing their expertise, making sure we're supporting them with the resources they need, training and retaining. Our government is doing all of those things and more, something the previous government didn't care about and never did, and just talks about now, even though they cannot– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. The honourable member for Seine River.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1253 Security System Rebate Budget 2024 MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): I'll wait; I can't hear him. Sorry, I'm assuming you called on me, but I can't hear because of all the noise on the opposite side. The Speaker: The honourable member for Seine River. MLA Cross: Honourable Speaker, in 2022 there was a 40 per cent increase in homicides, a 39 per cent increase in firearms offences and a 20 per cent increase in both robberies and break and enters.

Our government is investing in making our com- munity safe, after seven years of cuts that increased crime and made it harder for com munities to thrive. Earlier today, the Minister of Justice made an an - nouncement in south Winnipeg. Would the Minister of Justice tell us more about the announcement from earlier today? Hon. Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Honourable Speaker, the members opposite won't ask a question about public safety. But this side of the House, we absolutely will, because we're talking about important investments in Budget 2024.

I want to thank the member for Fort Richmond (MLA Chen) and Anamika Deb, who hosted us at her home today, talking about our $300 rebate on home security systems that will also be applicable for small businesses. It's part of our commit ment to not only making our com munity safer, but also making life more affordable. These are real solutions, tangible solutions that members on the opposite side never wanted to tackle, never wanted to do anything about. Manitobans were not safer, as we heard, under the members opposite. But we're not going to make that same mistake.

We're making life– The Speaker: Member's time is expired. Survivor's Hope Crisis Centre Long-Term Funding Concerns Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): An organization that helps sexual assault survivors was delivered a devastating blow April 3, when they were informed their funding had ended. Has this NDP minister reached out to this very important organization? The Speaker: The honour able Minister of Justice. [interjection] The honourable Minister of Justice has the floor. [interjection] Order. The honourable Minister of Justice has the floor. Hon.

Matt Wiebe (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Honourable Speaker, these are serious–this is a serious case and serious situations. I hear laughter, I hear heckling from the other side. I think the member–[interjection] I think the member –the minister–sorry, the Leader of the Official Op position asked a serious question, and I'd like to answer it seriously. * (14:20) We reached out to the organization right away. We offered support and we look forward to working with them going forward. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Ewasko: Honourable Speaker, Pinawa survivor hope crisis centre is the only such program operating in the east –Interlake-Eastern region, providing sup- portive services to survivors of sexualized violence. They have delivered hundreds of counselling sessions each and every year, meaning their absence will leave hundreds of victims and those indirectly impacted without services they need. The program is not expected to last past May without funding.

I appreciate the partial answer from this minister, but what is the plan to make sure that the Survivor's Hope Crisis Centre is long -term standing within the Interlake-Eastern region? Mr. Wiebe: Again, great question from the Leader of the Official Opposition. I'm glad that he's raising this important issue. We were shocked that the federal government withdrew funding and essentially eliminated, as the member opposite said, programs that are not offered by any other organization in the Interlake and Eastman. We stepped up right away. We talked to the execu- tive director.

We offered emergency funding to get them through this initial period and our officials are in constant contact with them to talk about that long- term funding. But we do hope that the federal gov - ernment will come back to the table and start sup - porting these important programs. The Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary question.

1254 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Mr. Ewasko: So, the minister, Honourable Speaker, and I appreciate the answer from the minister, to a point. So has the minister reached out to the federal government to make sure that the Pinawa Survivor's Hope Crisis Centre is going to be maintained for the long run? He said, during emergency crisis, which is great. Thank you. That being said, this has been a service that has been in the Interlake-Eastern Regional Health Authority for many, many, many years.

Can those victims, the survivors, count on this government moving forward and what was the response from the federal minister? Mr. Wiebe: Yes, we reached out to the federal govern- ment but, more importantly, we reached out to the organization to assure them that there would be no disruption of service provided to the clients in Eastman and in the Interlake. We are going to continue to work with the federal government to push them to continue to fund im - portant programs like these; not just in Interlake and Eastman.

Again, very important service, but we want to make sure that that's provided across the province. And so that's why we're proud to be announcing emergency funding now, but we're going to continue to work with that organization and many others across the province to ensure that victims are supported. Woodridge Community Wells Closure Concerns Mr. Konrad Narth (La Vérendrye): Last week, con- stituents from Woodridge reached out to me, highly concerned about a sudden decision that came forward from the Office of Drinking Water. A long- serving bulk fill tap at the community well was suddenly not to code.

The volunteer-run club was told to pay up for a chlorination system or shut the tap down completely. This well is crucial for supplying water to live - stock, crops and also an essential supply for w ildfire crews. This water source is marked as non-potable and has been in operation for nearly 40 years without ever failing a water test. Can the minister please tell the House what has changed in the last six months that requires the closure of this long-serving water source? Hon. Tracy Schmidt (Minister of Environment and Climate Change): I thank the member opposite for that important question.

It's an important issue certainly, but I just want to take a quick moment to lift up our team today, and particularly, our Deputy Premier (MLA Asagwara) for their ability to answer questions and speak to Manitobans, despite the noise and the disrespect and the utter malarkey coming from the other side of the House today. It's a new day here in Manitoba. Our government is committed to working with Manitobans. I'm committed to working with the member opposite on this important file and I look forward to following up with you. The Speaker: The honourable member for La Vérendrye, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Narth: These community wells have been estab- lished in communities, not only in La Vérendrye, but across the entire province. People have been accessing and relying on this source for decades. Now, sud- denly, it's a liability for the gov ernment and needs to be shut down? We're forecasted to have a tough, dry season, and communities rely on these bulk filling stations as a water source during fire season. And this well also is used for supporting agri culture and also wells like it across the entire province.

Can the minister responsible please tell the House how many other com munities will be getting the notice right in the middle of wildfire season? MLA Schmidt: Again, thank you to the member oppo- site for the important question. We know that a safe and reliable source of drink- ing water is of top of mind for Manitobans this season as we head into –after an in credibly dry winter. We know that drought is at the top of mind for many Manitobans. I am in credibly proud of public servants in our Office of Drinking Water, and we are on top of the issue.

And we look forward to working with the com- munity as we go forward. The Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Removal of Federal Carbon Tax Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Leader of the Official Opposition): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And the background to this petition is as follows:

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1255

(1) The federal government has mandated a con- sumption-based carbon tax with the stated goal of financially pressuring Canadians to make decisions to reduce their carbon emissions.

(2) Manitoba Hydro estimates that, even with a high-efficiency furnace, the carbon tax is costing the average family over $200 annually, even more for those with older furnaces.

(3) Home heating in Manitoba is not a choice or a decision for Manitobans to make; it is a necessity of life, with an average of almost 200 days below 0°C annually.

(4) The federal government has selectively removed the carbon tax off of home heating in the Atlantic provinces of Canada but has indicated they have no intention to provide the same relief to Manitobans heating their homes.

(5) Manitoba Hydro indicates that natural gas heating is one of the most affordable options available to Manitobans, and it can be cost prohibitive for households to replace their heating source.

(6) Premiers across Canada, including in the Atlantic provinces that benefit from this decision, have collectively sent a letter to the federal gov ernment, calling on it to extend the carbon tax exemption to all forms of home heating, with the exemption–exception of Manitoba.

(7) Manitoba is one of the only prov incial juris- dictions to have not agreed with the stance that all Canadians have –all Canadians' home heating bills should be exempt from the carbon tax.

(8) Provincial leadership in other juris dictions have already committed to removing the federal carbon tax from home heating bills. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to remove the federal carbon tax on home heating bills for all Manitobans to provide them much-needed relief. This petition is signed by Bonnie Schmidtke, Judy Drabik, John and Liz Hannon and many other fine Manitobans. The Speaker: Any further petitions? Carbon Tax and Rising Food Prices Mr.

Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Honourable Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: In 2022, according to Statistics Canada, there was an 11.4 per cent increase in food prices. Staple food products such as baked goods, margarine and other oils, dairy products and eggs have seen some of the largest price increases. Agriculture and the agri -food sectors contribute close to 10 per cent of Manitoba's GDP. There are increased costs added at every step of the process for Manitoba's agri culture producers.

In order to make 18 cents from one bread loaf worth of wheat, farmers are paying carbon tax at every stage of production to grow the crop and get it to market. Grain drying, fertilizer and chemical production, mushroom farming, hog operations, the cost of heating a livestock barn, machine shops and utility buildings are all examples of how the carbon tax on natural gas and other fuels cost farmers and consumers more each year. * (14:30) In food production, there are currently no viable alternatives to natural gas and propane.

The carbon tax takes money away from farmers, making them less profitable and hindering rural agri cultural producers' ability to invest in upgrades and improve efficiency while reducing emissions. The provincial government neglected farmers in the six-month fuel tax holiday until the opposition critic and local stakeholder groups called for their inclusion. Other prov incial juris dictions and leaders have taken action on calling on the federal gov ernment to remove the punishing carbon tax and/or stop collect - ing the carbon tax altogether.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to call on the federal government to remove the punishing carbon tax on natural gas and other fuels and farm inputs for Manitoba agri culture producers and the agri -food sector to decrease the costs of putting food on the table for Manitoba consumers. This petition is signed by Lisa Hogg, Tim Cornborough, Linda Newton and many, many more Manitobans. The Speaker: Further petitions? Seeing–the honour- able member for Spruce Woods.

1256 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Mr. Grant Jackson (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba, the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) In 2022, according to Statistics Canada, there was an 11.4 per cent increase in food prices.

(2) Staple food products such as baked goods, margarine and other oils, dairy products and eggs have seen some of the largest price increases.

(3) Agri culture and the agri -food sectors con- tribute close to 10 per cent of Manitoba's GDP.

(4) There are increased costs added at every step of the process for Manitoba's agriculture producers. In order to make an–18 cents from one bread loaf worth of wheat, farmers are paying the carbon tax at every stage of production to grow the crop and get it to market.

(5) Grain drying, fertilizer and chemical produc - tion, mushroom farming, hog operations, the cost of heating a livestock barn, machine shops and utility buildings are all examples of how the carbon tax on natural gas and other fuels cost farmers and con - sumers more each year.

(6) In food production, there are currently no viable alternatives to natural gas and propane. The carbon tax takes money away from farmers, making them less profitable and hindering rural agri cultural producers' ability to invest in upgrades and improve efficiency while reducing emissions.

(7) The provincial government neglected farmers in the six-month fuel tax holiday until the opposition critic and local stake holder groups called for their inclusion.

(8) Other provincial jurisdictions and leaders have taken action on calling on the federal gov ernment to remove the punishing carbon tax and/or stop collecting the carbon tax altogether. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to call on the federal government to remove the punishing carbon tax on natural gas and other fuels and farm inputs for Manitoba agri cultural producers and the agri -food sector to decrease the cost of putting food on the table for Manitoba consumers.

This petition has been signed by Cindy Scott, Lorie Howe [phonetic], Cliff Long and many, many, many more Manitobans. The Speaker: Are there any further petitions? Order, please. Just for everyone's education and edification, when reading petitions the rules quite clearly state you can read the first three names only. You can't pick and choose which names to read. It can only be the first three names. Any further petitions? Seeing none, grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon.

Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Can you please call the continuation of second reading of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act (Cr iminal Property Forfeiture Act and Cor porations Act Amended), followed by second reading of Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act. The Speaker: It has been announced that we will resume debate on second reading of Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended). Then we will have second reading of Bill 29, The Body Armour and Fortified Vehicle Control Amendment Act.

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Bill 30–The Unexplained Wealth Act (Criminal Property Forfeiture Act and Corporations Act Amended) The Speaker: The floor is now open for debate on Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act, criminal forfeiture act and corporations act, stands in the name of the honour able member for Agassiz, who has 21 minutes remaining. Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): I am pleased to rise in the House today to continue speaking on Bill 30, The Unexplained Wealth Act. Not sure exactly where I left off last week, but certain to say it would have been on the topic of crime.

The fact–excuse me; bear with me here today–the fact that crime is not new to our world, but what is new is the level of cri me that is transpiring and the depths to which criminals will go to get what they want or need and have no fear of consequences. Some may get involved some what unknowingly to what is really going on, but are willing to do things

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1257 in order to gain money and financial gain, obviously. Some may get involved to support other habits of some nature. Some may get involved because of family ties and it may all start very innocently. [interjection] Thank you. There are many contributing factors, and not every story is the same. However, one thing is the same, and that is, regardless of how one gets sucked into the criminal activity, let's say, and organized crime, they do become part of illegal activity, play a

part in a much bigger scheme of the dark, under - ground world of crime. * (14:40) Crime affects everyone from individuals to families to businesses and the overall sense of security in our neighbourhoods. It is essential that we come together to understand the root causes of this problem and work together finding effective solutions. There are many factors contributing to crime.

One of the key factors could be socio-economic conditions, and these challenges that exist–these are challenges that exist in many of our com munities today, things like poverty, unemployment, lack of opportunity for young people, which could lead to or push youth into criminal activity. A quick introduction to crime could be all it takes for some people to be drawn in. Another contributing factor leading to crime is a much more obvious one, and that is addiction and perhaps drug use. Some prey on our most vul nerable and take full advantage of those that are seeking a sense of belonging.

They get misguided and possibly promised great things and a high level of–at a high level of comfort, and then, before they probably even real- ize, they're living a life of crime. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to combat crime. And like I said, many get involved in this criminal activity for a variety of reasons. Now, I understand The Unexplained Wealth Act is not specific to the petty crimes that exist, but we all know crime starts at many different levels. We see it all the time.

Just last week, I had someone reach out to ask me if the text message that they receiv ed from the Province of Manitoba was a real message or was it a scam. This particular woman was indicating that the carbon rebate is available, just have to click on this particular link. It's scary to think how many may have opened that link and opened them selves up to potential harm and fraud. I know many people are looking for financial relief from this prov incial government for sure, but unfortunately, they are not going to be seeing that kind of relief anytime soon.

So many are vulnerable to this stuff and to the sorts of Internet and text message crimes. I've had situations where speaking with some- one on the phone, they indicated that they were going to be making a big purchase but needed to get gift cards from the pharmacy in order to make this trans- action. Knowing this wasn't right, I asked several more questions, and then explained to this individual what was really going on and that it was a scam, and I protected that individual and clearly that transaction did not happen.

Another situ ation not long ago, when an in- dividual had a message come up on the computer indicating a credit card had been com promised and they needed to call a number to prevent further issues. I was able to explain that this too was just another scam, but it was certainly one of more detail and high level in terms of what the process entailed. A number of years ago, while working with a senior, it was brought to my attention that, in this case, they would receive calls from Canada Revenue Agency. And this clearly confused and created unwar- ranted stress for this individual.

Once we sat down and we discussed what this really was, I was able to ex - plain that these calls, again, were phone scams, and when they get calls like this, don't engage, don't answer questions, just hang up. These are just a few of the examples that I have personally experienced. I can't imagine the thousands more out there that were not intercepted. A report from the Province of British Columbia provides details and a wide list of avenues where you find criminal activity. Some of those I've already men - tioned fall into the category of mass marketing fraud.

This, in particular, is an umbrella term for fraudulent schemes that use mass com munication media like cellphones, telephone lines, computers and other de - vices. Many of these scams can appear to be very reputable and look very legitimate. The list is very daunting and con cerning, listing things like corruption and bribery, counterfeiting and piracy, illicit drug trafficking, mortga ge fraud, third putty–third-party money laundering, tobacco smuggling and trafficking, currency counterfeiting, human smug- gling, human trafficking, identity crime, illegal gaming, pollution crime, payment card theft.

The list goes on and on and on.

1258 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 Clearly, there is an endless way for criminals to do what they do. Obviously, some of these crimes are conducted and operated with a much higher level of sophistication than others and involve signi ficant amounts of money, and these are the operations where this bill can play an important

part in crime. Technology has created a platform for greater theft and scams, and certainly opens the doors to seniors and those most vulnerable who may be taken full advantage of. I have seen it too many times when seniors get taken in by phone calls. Many of these seniors are lonely and are happy to help and have a conversation on any topic and be totally oblivious to the underlying scam that is going on. Our most vul nerable are certainly at higher risk for phone fraud and more susceptible to these phish- ing scams.

Many of our youth are vulnerable and they are susceptible to these scams as well, but also the lifestyle that might seem appealing to some youth who are struggling. This opens up opportunity for crime as they get involved with gang life and find a sense of community and family in that lifestyle of crime and criminal activity. They often make choices which can lead to much bigger consequences. This could lead to many things in terms of crime like drug trafficking, theft–small and large-scale theft, even money laundering.

Money laundering is a growing concern and in 2021, the PC gov ernment passed legislative changes that strengthened the ability for the Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit to quickly act on securing money that investigators believe to be illegally acquired and could be subjected to money laundering. Now with advancements in technology, things have evolved to where we now have to deal with crypto - currency and how that opens the doors for much more criminal and sophisticated activity.

This type of cur - rency can be used by organized crime and can be very difficult to track as funds can be easily shuffled person to person without the ease of tracking. The Bank of Canada does not control cryptocurrency and could potentially disrupt the banking system. I must also mention the great work of my colleague, the member from Steinbach, who has done great work in relation to making positive change and bringing in this legislation on the Justice file while the PC Party was in government. * (14:50) Also–[interjection] Thank you; excuse me.

Also, I would like to thank my colleague from Brandon West for his years of service at the Brandon Police Service. His dedi cation to ser vice and con tri- butions to the safety of Manitobans has been signi fi- cant, and his knowledge in the field continues to benefit us all here in this Chamber. It is im portant to note that The Unexplained Wealth Act is not intended to target individuals who have acquired their wealth through legitimate means.

The focus is on those who cannot provide a reasonable explanation for their assets, in order to ensure that our resources are directed towards those who have en - gaged in criminal activities. This is about cor por- ations, perhaps organizations, where there is suspicion and/or concern, where companies are trying to elude and/or hide funds. This act, as may vary from–this act may vary from jurisdiction to juris diction. However, the general ob - jective is to empower law enforce ment agencies to combat money laundering, corruption and other forms of financial crime.

If individuals cannot explain or fail to provide a satisfactory explanation, then their assets may be subject to confiscation. This act is seen as a tool to deter and disrupt the flow of illicit funds, and to hold individuals account - able for their involvement in financial crimes. All of this is part of wider efforts to promote transpar ency, integrity and the rule of law in combatt ing financial crimes and holding criminals accountable. The Unexplained Wealth Act, also known as Bill 30, is signi ficant in the fight against financial crime here in Manitoba.

By empowering law enforce- ment agencies to in vestigate and–seized unexplained wealth, this legislation helps to safeguard our society from the many negative impacts of illicit activities and the works–and works to protect the many great people– the province of Manitoba. It is very disappointing to learn that the NDP budget just last week contained a significant decrease in expenditures for Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit.

It's important to note cuts were made in other areas involving public safety, and it's im portant to have adequate funding for all public safety m easures, enabling those officers on the front line to do –or, to– better to do their job and tackle crime. In this government's recent budget, we can see all areas of public safety that need funding, not cuts. We need to be putting more funding into supports, like those on the front lines that are working hard every day to fight against crime and work to protect the great

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1259 people of Manitoba. That is the kind of invest ments our province needs here. It would be nice to get clarity or further explana- tion on what this bill does, or how it is different from what already exists within this branch. Amendments to the act were made in 2021. What is different with the direction that this government is taking now? Like many other Manitobans, I am all about fight- ing crime in our province and going after the ones who are leading the teams behind the scenes of crime.

I just question the reason and rationale for changing what already exists. And, again, Honourable Speaker, I would just like to go back and discuss here some of the other forms of illegal activity. I mentioned the mass marketing fraud. Some of the other things that we see taking place in our province and in our country is the mort - gage fraud, which includes a wide range of practices relating to the provision of mortgage financing. It includes false and misleading statements made by a borrower on a mortgage application.

A large number of sophisticated schemes exist and are used to defraud lending institutions and property owners. We see tobacco smuggling and trafficking. Organized crimes have a high level of involvement in the smuggling and trafficking of illicit tobacco products, such as counterfeit cigarettes and fine -cut tobacco imported illegally by Canadian-based manufacturers. We see currency counterfeiting. Large-scale cur- rency counterfeiting is pre dominantly undertaken by organized crime groups that conduct currency counter- feiting, alongside other profit-oriented criminal activities.

Human smuggling is horrific, and it is unbelievable to think that this exists, but it does here, Honour able Speaker. And this requires international connections, along with a high degree of organization and planning. Organized crime groups are engaged in this type of criminality and are believed to engage in such sophis- ticated activities in relation to that. I touched briefly on payment card fraud; that's another one that is growing rampant.

And so many people can become susceptible to that and quite unknowingly and innocently, they, all of a sudden, now their credit card–shopping on Amazon, and now their credit card is compromised. And, of course, we're all too familiar with robbery and theft, and that happens in every com munity, sometimes in our own personal backyards. We see where vehicles are stolen, and taken right out of our yard sites. Another activity is illegal gaming. It consists of a variety activities: private betting or gaming in gaming houses, unregulated video gaming, lottery machines.

These are all examples of criminal activity that some of us may be not too familiar with. Firearm smuggling and trafficking; there's another organized crime activity that is –takes place, again, right across our country. Tax evasion, there's another one, is carried out in many different forms in Canada. And the ultimate objective of this is obviously to avoid the payment of paying your taxes. Wildlife crime: it's maybe on the lower risk, but there's something that exists as well.

And the list here just goes on and on and–in what people can get–are involved in in the criminal world and the criminal activity in our province. Thank you. Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): As we are all aware, imitation is the greatest form of flattery. We've heard that before, and Bill 30 is exactly one of those pieces of legislation. * (15:00) I know the Minister of Justice well, the NDP member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). He's been around these Chambers for awhile and he had many, many years in opposition and many years on the backbench even when his party was gov ernment the last time.

And he's been Justice critic, on and off, often. So he's had the oppor tunity to get himself prepared for the day, some day, which, unfortunately, happened that he became Minister of Justice. So he had to –[interjection] No, it was the NDP member for Concordia; it wasn't the name that the member across the way mentioned, but– So the NDP member for Concordia had to cast about and look for some kind of legis lation. Every- body wants to have sort of their benchmark, their legacy, a piece of legis lation, and he needed some thing.

Obviously while he was sleeping, things did happen, and all of a sudden he was appointed Justice Minister. He needed legislation. So he cast about and he decided, I guess, to go look at one of his heroes, and I know there are many who would say the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) is

1260 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 their hero, and I think, for this current Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), he looks up to the member from Steinbach, who's been a Justice critic l onger than anybody else in the history of British Parlia mentary system, and also was a fantastic minister of Justice: knows his stuff, knows it well, knows it in and out. So Bill 30 is actually a piece of legis lation that's been introduced two different occasions with amend- ments under the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen).

We've amended that legislation and put into effect the changes that now seem to be referenced in this bill. So, we understand, of course, the member for Concordia, maybe you didn't spend as much time as he should getting himself prepared for the day that he might become a Cabinet minister and he got caught sleeping. So–[interjection] And members across the way want to speak, and I don't understand why they're not allowed to get up and give speeches.

They seem to not be able to speak to this legislation and, you know, it's too bad because Bill 30 is an important piece of legis- lation and they are not being allowed to speak. And that's very unfor tunate. They –we–I think we would like to hear what they have to say on this legis lation, this pale copy of what's been passed previously, and we'd love to hear what they have to say about it. But, you know, I guess we're just going to have to put up with them chirping at us from their seats. That's fine too.

It is a way of com municating; it's an inter - esting part of this Chamber, so we will just have to pick up their little nuggets of wis dom that they're heckling at us. But Bill 30 has already been introduced, and I would suggest to the Manitoba Legislature that it was in 2021, the Progressive Conservative gov ernment passed legis lative changes that strengthened the ability for the Cr iminal Property Forfeiture Unit to quickly act on securing money that investigators believed to be illegally acquired and to be subject to money laundering.

And, again, it was amended in 2022, and that's where we come up with this imitation is the greate st form of flattery because Bill 30 mirrors what's already been passed. And that's okay because, as we know, it's important to have a NDP government engaged on this file. They tend to be particularly soft on crime. In fact, the now Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) and some of her colleagues were big proponents of defunding the police, went out and gave speeches on it, and spoke about defunding the police.

And interestingly enough, I say to this Chamber, interestingly enough, they are now trying to run away from their record. They are trying to run from that record as fast as they can now that they've all of a sudden found themselves in government. But, you know, they actually did put on the record, and they actually did state publicly, and the Minister of Health was another one of them who actually went out and said, we need to defund the police, showed up–their rallies. In fact, it was the Premier (Mr.

Kinew) who was then the leader of the opposition, even posed so nicely with the hammer and sickle, the Communist flag of the–of Russia. And they were at a rally–[interjection]–they were at a rally for defunding the police. And so now they've decided they want to become crime fighters, and that's why they came up with Bill 30, which is an imitat ion of everything that the minister for Steinbach did when he was minister.

But that's fine, because we need the NDP to be focused on, amongst other things –and I know I have to be very careful I don't stray off of Bill 30–but their mismanagement of the finances file thing, which I'm now not–really, I'm looking at the Speaker and he's indicating maybe I should stay on Bill 30, so I will. But so we need them to focus on finances and also crime, so Bill 30 is a good start. It's a copy of what we did when we were gov ernment; that's fine. But you know what?

At least we got them off of the defund the police and all of that kind of nonsense that they used to push when they were in opposi tion. We got them off of that. And we know that there is a learning curve when individuals get into gov ernment. Things they may have said when they were in op position don't exactly fly as much when they're in government. And it is im- portant, because there is an

article out today in the Calgary Herald, and it talks about people leaving NDP British Columbia and moving to Alberta. And one of the main reasons is, probably, you know, over and above the fact that it's an NDP province, but more im- portantly, crime is listed as one of the important factors. And people fear the kind of crime that's going on. And it's very interesting. They do quote several individuals in the

article talking about the kind of criminal activity that's taking place in Vancouver, the kinds of deaths. The one individual is held up with a knife or a machete, knows that individual in the com- munity, knows when that individual comes out, they will then still be in the community and they'll have to face them.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1261 So, Bill 30, it's important that you not be able to get involved in criminal activity, accumulate wealth, maybe get caught at it and serve some time, and then get back out and just continue because you have all the wealth from it. So it's important. Again, I've stated it's a pale com- parison of what we had passed as gov ernment; it's a copy thereof. And again, that's good. We've got the NDP focused on im portant things that matter to Manitobans. But it's not just a Manitoba issue. And we see where NDP gov ernments get in, they lose focus.

They get their –take their eye off the ball, like in British Columbia, and crime then becomes rampant. And I suspect the NDP in British Columbia probably got into defund the police and harm injection sites and all kinds of stuff like that, and crime just explodes and it just gets away on them. And, you know what? Perhaps they should, in British Columbia, the NDP should be looking at becoming a little bit more in tune to crime fighting. What's interesting about Bill 30, though, is not just is it this provincial Manitoba NDP that's copying what our previous gov ernment, then the member for Steinbach (Mr.

Goertzen), British Columbia also passed this similar legislation, copying what we had done. In fact, I believe there's a quote here in which –when British Columbia announced their new law in March of 2023, their Attorney General was quoted saying, there is a similar piece of legis lation in place in Manitoba. They also copied what our Progressive Conservative government did. And again, back to–[interjection] Yes, absolutely, and there is a thunder ous round of applause for our previous government and the member for Steinbach, who used to be the Justice minister. Very im portant.

And again, imitation, the greatest form of flattery here with this NDP gov ernment Manitoba. Imitation's the greatest form of flattery even with the NDP gov ern- ment in British Columbia. They saw good legislation. We cannot allow criminal activity to pay, even if you do end up having to serve some time, that you don't get out and be able to avail yourselves from the proceeds of crime. * (15:10) So again, we are pleased to see that the NDP are starting to take this serious, because that

article that I referenced from the Calgary Herald lists out in divid- uals, stating how they are concerned about the crime– about the drug crime. And I would caution members opposite, the drug industry is one of those that will be very much caught up in this. Because it is big money, and a lot of individuals view it as a very lucrative, quick way to make money. What they don't realize is once you get into it, it is very difficult for you to get out of it. And they get sucked into it. The money is good, the money is fast, it's quick, it's fast vehicles and expensive clothing and all the rest of that.

Thing is, is that when they are–[interjection] The member for Rossmere (MLA Schmidt) suggests to me that she's so fired up now, she's so excited, she wants to get up and give a speech. And in about 18 minutes, I will sit down, and we want to hear what she has to say. Because the previous memb er for Rossmere, he would have put some very well-thought-out words on the record.

He would have been a dynamic and we're waiting to –we are waiting to see what the current member for Rossmere is, can she also put some words on the record, because evidently the Minister of Families (MLA Fontaine) won't let her; she's just shout- ing her down now.

So anyway, with all of that having been said, I would suggest that we indicate to those who are in that criminal activity, especially when it comes to the crime–to the drug side of crime, which we know the NDP are misstepping and are making some terrible errors with their harm injection sites and free drugs for people and all the rest of it; instead of dealing with the root of crime, and that's addiction, trying to deal with people and help them with addiction, they would rather just do harm injection sites.

Which, by the way, the prov incial NDP tried in British Columbia, and that's why, I think, what is it–I don't have the

article in front of me from the Calgary Herald. I believe in one year, 47,000 people left British Columbia. And they're leaving those kinds of things. It is organized crime. It is individuals believing they're going to make really good money, and by that they're destroying our people. They're destroying our society. They're destroying families and lives. So that's why what we did as a government, twice, which the NDP then copied, that's why this legislation is so im portant, because we know that individuals make a very good living. They get–they can get very, very wealthy from this kind of criminal activity.

But we have to make it so that, when you get caught, you get stripped of it, that it is not a thing that then you just 'geet' to keep– you get to keep compounding

1262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 your wealth, but rather that we have the ability to take that away from you, that in the end, the saying goes – and I have the former police chief of the city of Brandon sitting next to me and he will tell you we have to make sure that the saying always stands: Crime doesn't pay. And that's what this does. And by the way, I would like to just for a moment, besides the fact I have the honour of sitting next to him, and tell him how much we respect and appreciate the service that he gave to the city of Brandon. As police chief, he did amazing work.

And he has already reflected on this piece of legis- lation. He's asked very important questions, insofar as crime goes, standing up for Brandon, which the mem- ber for Brandon East (Mr. Simard) seems to be a vacant landlord when it comes to standing up for Brandon, but we have the member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen), who is standing up for Brandon. Now, Bill 30 is a very im portant piece of legis - lation, but before I get back into the details of it, I would like to point out to the member for Brandon West, I've actually served in this Chamber with a few members from Brandon West.

They have changed periodically, and all of them that –the first one was Drew Caldwell. Some of you might remember him. There are a few others. I'd almost say–he's almost one of my favourites. They're all very good, and of course and then your predecessor was fantastic. We really enjoyed Reg Helwer, he was a great guy. But you know, a police chief, that just holds a certain amount of cachet to it, and certainly appreciate you being in our caucus, very much so, absolutely.

And so I have a lot of years of exper ience in justice legislation, but I don't have –and reflecting on Bill 30–but I don't have the experience of the member for Brandon West, who, boots on the ground, looked the criminals in the whites of their eyes and had to face crime and had to deal with crime. And I know he's reflected on this privately and publicly and he has said, like, this is im portant, and that's why our gov ernment reacted, that's why we brought–and the NDP are just trying to do the me too.

And, like we said, that's excellent; at least we've got the NDP focused on crime, which they tend to always take their ball–eye off the ball. So this is a good thing. But the member for Brandon West, he will tell you how im portant this is for law en forcement and then for the courts, as well, because then you can go out on the street and you can make it very clear that when we catch you, you don't keep your wealth. Your ill-begotten gains will be taken away from you.

And that's why our gov ernment, under the MLA for Steinbach's leadership and the Cabinet and our premier's, that's why this was so im portant to bring forward. That's why we brought it forward. That's why British Columbia copied our legis lation, brought it forward and even thanked us for it, and that's why the NDP are doing justice legis lation, copy,

part 2. And that's, like we say, we got them focused, and that's good; at least they're focused on it. When families, individuals –and I would direct people to that

article from Calgary; it's out of the Calgary Herald, I believe it's called. It's a very telling

article because it's not just families, it's professionals. It's not just from Vancou ver, they also speak to individuals from small commu nities. And they talk about their concern with crime and then, of course, housing costs, which we know the NDP cheer for because their federal cousins are part of the driving up unaffordability to the point where people can't afford to live in a home. So our concern is there as well. But on the crime side of it, that as people view crime as being an option because they're struggling with making ends meet or they're not finding work, they're not getting good pay, so they get into crime: (

a) we make it so that it's not advantageous to be in crime because we won't let you keep the avails of crime when we catch you. And catch you we will, certainly with members –with individuals like the member from Brandon West, who, you know, helped keep Brandon a beautiful and safe community, and we need men and women standing in the crease con- tinuing to do that. It's important to do that, but it's also important to take a strong stand. And that's some thing the N DP tends not to do when it comes to crime.

The NDP is notoriously weak on crime, tend to be more into excuses for crime rather than dealing with crime, and we see that with British Columbia, and there's a frightening example of where things get out of hand. Now, I believe the

article even talks about people saying that crime is rampant, that's it's out of hand, and I would suggest to individuals they have a good look at it. I actually ended up getting a copy of it, and I read through it with great interes t, and I handed it over to the member for–our Justice critic, the member for– An Honourable Member: Fort Whyte.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1263 Mr. Schuler: The member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan). I thank my colleagues for that. The member for Fort Whyte, and to have him have a look at it just from the finance side of people giving reasons why 47,000 people or –in there some- where–why they would move from beautiful British Columbia to Alberta and just the oppor tunities.

But I also would like to say, on the criminal side of it, on the crime side of it, it's very im portant that when people don't feel safe, they leave. * (15:20) And I would say to the NDP this is a good start, but they've got to keep their eye on the ball, and they've got to be very careful that they don't slip, because they tend to do that. Under NDP governments, you always will see it. It's a cycle; you will always see crime going up. And that's what we don't want to see in this city. And in fact, crime is increasing. It's a problem.

And we've got to make sure that this NDP gov - ernment–and I'm sure our Justice critic and our op- position here, from time to time, we're going to put really good suggestions in front of this Chamber. And we know how this works. We know how this is going to work. The NDP will vote it down, and then about two months later, they'll come out with this piece of legislation that will look almost exactly like our sug - gestion, and then they'll try to put it forward as legis- lation, try to get it passed. And I would suggest to the NDP that don't take your eye off the ball. You've got to take on criminal activity.

You've got to make it a disadvantage to be in criminal activity, because the proceeds you aren't allowed to keep. And that's where you need to have a healthy economy. It ties in, very much so; afford- ability. And we know that members opposite, the NDP, who are great, great cheerleaders and supporters of Jagmeet Singh and the federal NDP, who have been driving up costs.

The more you drive up costs and the less affordable you make stuff and just affordability of living, the more that you drive that up, the more you make it difficult for people to make ends meet, some– not all, some, few–will start looking to crime and will decide that that's the only way they can make it forward. And what's also im portant about the legis lation– and this is legislation that was brought in by our gov- ernment, the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) as Justice minister, copied by the NDP here in Manitoba.

What's so im portant also is not just is it that the criminals, the drug lords don't get to keep the money, but the funds from the program go to victims, goes to police agencies and to social services, those that are sponsored by the police. The money actually goes to very good use. In fact, I know the member for Steinbach, when he was minister–and it was a public an nouncement– he gave a substantive amount of money to The Joy Smith Foundation. And there is one of the most horrific, horrific segment of crime activity that makes money off of 'traffifcking' young people.

And to go into the details is absolutely horrific, and I would suggest to any member of this House, The Joy Smith Foundation, the non- partisan group, they will come forward and tell you what these trafficked individuals go through. It is so horrifying. It is so disturbing. And it was our gov ernment, under member for Steinbach, that was just a minister, we gave The Joy Smith Foundation substantial money to help reach in and try to get these young people out of human trafficking, because it is so horrific.

And then to go in and break up these rings and to seize that money, hopefully that money then goes back to these organi zations to help individuals and help them get out of it . They know nowhere to turn. They've had their identification taken away from them. They've had their passports, they don't know how to travel, they have no money and they're then hooked on–further on to drugs, and they see no hope. So the money that is t aken from these evil and diabolically horrible gangs, that money, then, is stripped from them. And it goes to some really, really good causes.

And that's another part of this that is so impor- tant. And we thank the prov incial NDP for having copied our legislation, for coming, you know, to this Chamber with this legislation

part 2. And we get it, the NDP want a me -too moment, and so this is their me-too moment. They're just going to copy ours, and that's okay too. And part of that money –and this was under our government, and we know the leadership from the member for Brandon West (Mr. Balcaen), when he was police chief, the Bear Clans in all the areas –the province have got funds for vehicles, safety vests, flashlights, radios, gloves, mitts and numer ous other things. And that is the kind of thing that we want to do, that we have–we take it away from the criminals who are making money off of the crime, making money off of drugs that is poisoning and killing, and the drug

1264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 overdoses across this countr y is horrific what–and they're making money off of that. That that money be put into organizations like the Joy Smith Foundation, like the Bear Clan. And also the human trafficking part, which is truly the bottom of the barrel when it comes to these gangs and how horrific that is. And I would–again, I would suggest to any member of this House, call up the Joy Smith Foundation. They'll come out and speak to your community. And it is shocking how in our communities there are human trafficking rings.

It–this isn't a poor, rich, city, a rural, it knows no ethnicity, it knows no gender, it knows none of that. It is just a horrific crime, and it's all over the place. And I would suggest, avail your- self of the material, they now have a really good school program. I know the Bear Clan, the kind of work that they do is just amazing. And even the Neighborhood Watch program, which is often funded–by and large funded through Manitoba Public Insurance. They go and they write down stuff. They don't intervene; t hey write down licence plates and that kind of stuff.

And they have helped police forces go after these gangs that are using our young people, destroying families and destroying communities. And often they just have to write down the licence plate or so mething, and the RCMP –I know, in the community I live in –they'll often ask for the books, and they'll go through the book and they'll see that there was a licence plate that keeps showing up at different scenes and there was criminal activity, and they'll go after them. So we all have some respon sibility, even in our own neighbourhoods. When we see some thing that doesn't seem right, go after them.

Report that to police, and hopefully we can break these groups. And I'd like to thank the Bear Clan or ganization. They do amazing work. And for us to take money from these drug lords and these human smugglers and these criminal rings and use it for good like that, that is fantastic. That's impor tant we support that, definitely. And we want to shut down these criminal organi- zations. Strip them 'therve' their money. Make it clear those that are thinking of getting into organized crime, that in the end, you will not keep that money. You will not have it for yourself.

You are going to lose that money; in fact, we're going to take that money and put it to good use, and give it to organizations and individ- uals that will go out and help our cities and our towns and our villages and our neighbourhoods. And especially those people who are caught up in it, people who are caught up in the whole drug –and get addictions to it, and those that are being human trafficked. Those are the individuals we want to focus on. We want to ensure that they get the kind of ser - vices and the help–I would suggest to members oppo- site, harm injection sites isn't the right to go –way to go.

Instead, that money should go into treatment, like the Oake centre and other centres. We don't want to signal one –single one out here. We want to–all of them, the work that they're doing. Do they have people who relapse and go back into it? Yes. That doesn't mean we should ever stop trying. Keep working on these 'indivulge' –even with human trafficking. Sometimes these individuals go back into the trafficking, because they just don't know any other life, because they don't even know if they have the self-worth.

We have to reach back in again, pull them out and give them the kinds of surrounding supports that they need. So yes, let's shut down these organi zations. Yes, let's take the money. Yes, let's put it into good organi- zations. And I'd like to thank the NDP for copying our legislation, for coming out with their legis lation to– me-too legislation, and British Columbia did the same thing; let's try to make our community safer and better. Thank you very much. Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): Honourable Speaker, I'd like to put a few words about this Bill 30, Unexplained Wealth Act, infor mation.

It's very im - portant that we address this. MLA Robert Loiselle, Acting Speaker, in the Chair And I know, again, what the member from –for Springfield– An Honourable Member: Ritchot. * (15:30) Mr. Piwniuk: Ritchot? Yes, that's what –as he men- tioned here–that he mentioned here that, you know, the importance of basically what our colleague, w ho was a minister at the time, a minister of Justice, member for Steinbach (Mr.

Goertzen), basically put the bill forward in 2021, saying that, you know, any for feit- ures of any organized crime property that was 'forfershed', we created a unit that was es tablished almost 16–over 16 years ago.

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1265 And this gives an op portunity to look at –with crime, and I would have to say, just a few months ago, just in my own constituency of Turtle Mountain, we had one of the biggest drug busts of all time in Manitoba. And it was –I don't know how many kilograms, I forget, but the value is over $50 million worth of crystal meth. And that's a big impact–and–to the province of Manitoba.

And now it's like we have to make sure that if we– when it comes to organizations or people who have actually now have–now these properties and wonder- ing where these–this amount of value would have came from, we want to make sure that there's a unit here that will continue to monitor any criminal situations that are happening out there. And right now, like, as we see it, you know, we've–anytime–I–we could all talk about stories in our own constituencies.

And I know in rural Manitoba, just by talking to my own kids who went to school in Virden area, people that I've talked to in–throughout the constituency that went to school and kids went to school in Boissevain, Killarney, Notre Dame, you know, there's drugs all over Manitoba right now, and a lot of it is basically run by organized crime.

And I remember when the legalization of marijuana was going to be legalized by the–this Liberal govern- ment back in 2015, one of the things that was inter - esting talking to retired police chiefs, I remember I was talking to the sergeant of –deputy Sergeant -of- Arms as he was city police, saying that a lot of cases when the –just before legalization of marijuana was coming in play, the drug dealers –the drug cartel, whatever, they realized that there was an income that they were actually going to generate were going to be lost by legalization of marijuana.

And so they realized that they had to get into another type of busi ness just like any other busi - nesspeople out there, like, if all of a sudden a –there's a gen eration of income is actually going to be lost, they had to be creative. And that's when they started to really ramp up the production of crystal meth and they've actually targeted a lot of –when it came to young people, to com munities.

I remember once, some of the chiefs used to say when they were evacuated from the North and the –when they had to stay in hotels, a lot of the young people were targeted by drug dealers trying to get them on crystal meth. And that was, you know–and it happened in a lot of rural areas of Manitoba. It doesn't matter what income you are from or what standard of living that a person has, everybody's been affected by the drugs that are being sold on the streets in the city of Winnipeg, Brandon, Thompson, Steinbach, Virden, Boissevain, Killarney, Brandon, Portage la Prairie.

These are all places that you can't hide fr om the organized–of selling of illegal drugs. And so I would have to say right now that when it comes to anybody that is actually part of organized crime, that are finding property –you know, money laundering is the big factor here–we want to make sure that this unit is going to be on making sure their in - vestigations are done to making sure that if there's any property that has been purchased and they're–can't be explained by a paper trail.

I know when it comes to buying a house or for individuals, you know, you go through your–you usually go through your bank, you know, you probably sold one property. You might have sold a house before and now you're just purchasing another house. That could all be traced from the actual original amounts where that money came from.

But when all of a sudden a busi ness is purchased and there's no – anywhere that actually where that money comes from, well, that's why there's always –when it comes to money laundering rules that are coming out there –I know, if anybody goes to the United States, they drive and one of the first questions that one of the customs officers will ask you is, are you carrying more than $10,000? Because if you're carrying more than $10,000, that's a good chance that that money is part of the money la undering, and who, now –in this day and age –carries $10,000?

Most people –I don't even carry–sometimes when I'm actually going to events, I have to be very careful because I don't carry cash anymore. I usually use credit cards, and not very many places only take cash. And so that's why it's so important. In my accounting background, my–I ran number of businesses, and everything, every dollar that I spend is actually recorded and making sure that I keep track of where I spend my money.

And I've–feel that every- body should be doing that, because that's part of your– when it comes to financial 'literasly', is making sure that every dollar that you spend, wherever you spend it, is accountable for it. And so this is why investigators at this unit will actually investigate where, if there's more than $10,000 especially, and in this case here, I think it's like 75 to 125 thousand dollars if someone's buying some property, a car that's a high -value car, they want to know where this money's coming from. And it's im - portant that if this person, this organization, was, you

1266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 know, was investigated with any criminal–you know, established any kind of criminal type of acti vity and then finding out that there's property that is actually been pur chased and that can be –can't be traced to actual–where the actual money originated from, it's very important. And, I guess, back in the PC days, we actually – government–we actually made this amendment.

I said, the member from Steinbach actually put in–this bill in, back in 2021, and we actually amended it back in 2023 to look at advisement, especially with–actually, cryptocurrency was also added to it. So it's important that we look at that, because now a lot of –especially criminals are using cryptocurrency now to provide transactions when it comes to illegal properties, illegal activity that's happening in, I guess, throughout the world right now.

And right now, a lot of the drugs that are coming, they're not only coming from the United States, they're coming from Mexico, they're coming from Colombia, they're coming from every part of the world right now. And that's what's really concern ing right now. And I find, when it c omes to the youth, and one of the concerns I have is when it comes to illegalized drugs, you know, we've had so many people that I know in my own community that had overdoses.

And this is how much of an impact on our health- care system, on our education system, because don't forget, a lot of those young people who have actually had an overdose of drugs, we educated them. We've invested a lot of money in those individuals for their education, and next thing you know, they're no longer with us. The cost of in vestigations on situations like that, it costs society a lot of money. And it's very concerning that, you know, this day and age, how the illegal drug industry has now really– are so focusing on individuals.

And what I'm finding right now is that we're finding, especially in rural Manitoba, we're seeing a lot of crime sprees happening. You go to places like Rock Lake or Oak Lake or Lake Metigoshe, more of these cottages that are seasonal are being broke into because of people who are very desperate of trying to find revenue, money to pay for the drugs that they're addicted to.

And it's causing a lot of grief when it comes to our police officers who now have to do investigations and finding out–and what we're finding out was, with a lot of individuals who live at these lakes are frustrated, because the fact is there's so many break -ins hap- pening that it's hard for them to actually get police to come because it's happening so much more frequently. And I remember being in the insurance industr y, had an agency in the Virden area, Reston, for over 20 years.

And I remember we had a few break -ins in the town of oak–the resort of Oak Lake, because there was only maybe about, you know, there might be over 250 cottages there, but that probably only about 10 of them actually had full-time residents there. So then it was easy for somebody to come and actually break into these vacant cottages during the winter. The access was great. The road was plowed so that people can go to them every –throughout the w inter. But also the criminals were able to get to these cottages, too.

And so what was happening is that–and recently, what are these–like, cabins are being broke into; even campers are being broke into. * (15:40) And what they're actually now breaking into and stealing is actually propane tanks. I guess propane tanks are now used to make a lot of crystal meth. I guess their value of them are higher now. So they're actually being used to–again, to produce crystal meth in the–for the sale of more drugs.

So, you know, when it comes to–I know these are smaller amounts, but then this, you know, as these criminals actually get more 'organistrated'–established, well, then they go into bigger and better things. It's like a business, like sometimes when a business starts out, like a family business, it goes into a big operation. I– and in a lot of cases when it comes to organized crime, that's where a lot of it starts. It starts with the small criminals and then it gets –they get –become more organized, they work together and they create more of an organi zation that actually now gets bigger and bigger.

And so this is why we got to make sure that we monitor the activity that's happening with some of these organizations that are getting more organized, creating more revenue and now causing more possi - bilities of–when it comes to money laundering. So this is why it's so im portant that, you know, when we have these investigation units to making sure that if property –if someone is arrested, and there's a lot of property that this person owns, or that organi - zation owns, we want to make sure that that in vesti- gation has been done to make sure that, you know,

April 15, 2024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1267 we–you know, it costs a lot of money to do these in- vestigations. It costs a lot of money to–you know, to– the cost of policing. And right now, in cases, we've actually increased the policing in our budgets year after year. And

whereas when the NDP were in as opposition, they were trying to defund the police. That was one of their criticiza - tions that we sh ould have more –less police officers out there. And, in fact, you know, the crime has increased, even now that they're in govern ment, they are seeing that–the true side of what's happening with our criminals, and actually increasing the activity that's h appening, the break-ins, the home invasions. Home invasions are actually more rampant than we ever have heard before.

And we're–I remember one individual I was –my business partner, we were going to get together but he had to cancel his meeting with me because, the fact is, he had to go to a funeral, a funeral in the city of Winnipeg, because the guy that he was good friends with, his son was killed in an home invasion, that some- body actually broke into the house not knowing that he was there, and actuall y clubbed him to a point where he actually died. They left him to die.

And so there was a funeral–or, he was on life sup- port, and they had to take the life support off, and then the father had to go into Winnipeg for that–for his–to be there for the last breath that his son took because he was beaten up and clubbed, and a home invasion. But again, these home invasions are because of people are with their addictions, getting des perate, finding revenue to pay for their drugs. And next thing you know, innocent people are being hurt. And it's very concerning that this government, in the budget, all they want to do is put a camera.

What is a camera going to do when there's such a lot of it happening out there? Is the police going to get to it? And in o ne place where someone actually had some criminals that were breaking into a place on camera, they couldn't do anything with that–these individuals, because they had to be caught red -handed at the location. And so this is where it's really con cerning that– and what it's like about this is that any, I guess, over the years, we had over $60 million that was actually allocated back to helping programs. Actually, $22 million.

And $60 million actually went to grants that were actually helping such examples of the Bear Clan, combatting cybercrime and reducing, you know, basic- ally, when it comes to major 'threfts' in the area. So you know, we actually were the ones that really focused on changing the bill. And now you guys are, like the member from Springfield-Ritchot was saying, that it's me too, that they're bringing forward on the Minister of Justice (Mr. Wiebe), who is bringing this bill forward. We've actually had done this, and we could–and we want to see more of it to continue.

So it's great that they're on board with this bill and moving forward on the amendment, and like I said, you know, when it comes to money laundering. Again, with that whole–that when it came to the –one of the biggest drug busts in Manitoba history, in Boissevain, at the border c rossing, I give–commend the member who worked for –the customs officer actually being able to check to see what the–was in the truck. And, again, it was millions and millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars worth of drugs that were coming into the province.

And that's amazing how much that is actually now going to hurt the drug dealers out there who are provi- ding to–a lot of this –drugs to the –to Manitobans, especially people who are addicted. And this is why I think it's so im portant that our focus, especially if we continue getting some of these assets, continue to be spent on maybe drug addictions and making sure that the treatment that they get –I know we're the gov ernment that first put in RAAM clinics–the NDP never had it for 16 years–anything to help to get people off drugs.

And we actually help, working with organizations like the Bruce Oake treatment facility and helping making sure that that is happening. And we're looking– like, we were looking at more expansion to the –to helping individuals to get off of drugs. And anybody that actually has been–has came clean after being on drugs for many years, they will all say that they all wanted to get better; they all wanted to get off of drugs. They didn't want to be dependent on drugs.

And when it comes to safe consumption sites, I'm really concerned about that, because, again, that is – increases the activity that happens around that area. I think, also, just like when we actually had good inten- tions, like, the federal government had good intentions of legalizing marijuana, that people–less people would have criminal records when they were, you know, caught with marijuana.

1268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 15, 2024 But you know what? The consequences. I remem- ber going to–like, going to midwest legis lative con- ference. And one of the meetings that I had was with one of the senators from Illinois, and he was in- forming that they were finding–Illinois was going to legalize marijuana. And what I told him after, I said, you know, there's always consequences. Like it's good that you're legalizing marijuana, and maybe there's revenue for the state, but the criminals will be the ones that will actually now focus on another form of revenue.

If they're an organized machine like that, they're going to look at other opportunities. And the opportunities that happen, again, when I told this Elgie Sims, who was a senator, that in Winnipeg, we don't have a–you know, where a lot of other juris- dictions have 'epiloid'–what's that? Some Honourable Members: Opioids. Mr. Piwniuk: Opioids addictions. My wife, who was in health care, says we don't have opioid addictions; we have a crystal meth crisis that are happening.

And the fact is–and that's what I told the senator from Illinois, that, be careful, because sometimes organized crime will find other solutions to help with their revenue. In our case, in Manitoba, it was crystal meth. And now we're paying for it, I believe. We're paying for it big time. And now it's like–and then COVID did not help, because then we also had more people at home, more people not going out to socializing and being with people. And I've talked to a lot of my kids, and they talk about their friends who, some of them got addicted during that time to different drugs.

In a lot of cases, it was crystal meth. And how it ruins their future, it ruins their focus, focus on getting a good career, provi ding a good revenue–tax revenue for–in society to help with pay - ing for a lot of our services, now they're users of our services now. And it's costing, again, the Province of Manitoba a lot of revenue over these number of years that have happened. And again, I think every community in Manitoba have seen that. And even the city of Winnipeg, we see that on the streets. We see people walking and con - fronted by somebody who was high on crystal meth. And you know what?

You don't have to go to a certain area of the city. You can go anywhere in the city of Winnipeg, and you run into to somebody who is high on crystal meth. And that is very concerning. And you go–like, yeah, and you could go on to Portage la Prairie, you can go to all small towns; we're all seeing that right now. And what the important thing is is how do we get those people off addictions.

And this is where this op- portunity could be from, is to making sure that we can use this revenue that we get as a province. * (15:50) And that's where our oppor tunity was here, was to, you know, to fund a lot of organi zations like the Bear Clan, and also making sure that we can put towards RAAM clinics and ramping them up, because the fact is, we will need them. We will need them so greatly, because the fact is, again, I saw the overdoses that happened in the last four or five years just in my community. And again, it's not a certain demographic that this is happening to.

This is happening to people over 50, this is happening to a lot of 20-year-olds. Male, female, doesn't matter where the–what family they came from. And when you're in a small town, you see the dif

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	43-1-43
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	43rd 1st hansardpdf 43.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	94deae5eb679f9d77e2285975fd03deb7c8b0ab7

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