VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. TUESDAY, JUNE 8, 1982 NO. 18

.Tunc 8 , 19 8 2 'I'hc !louse met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. M_~. SPEAKER (Russell) : MH. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 1044 so - 1 Order, please! Mr. Speaker, a point of order. A point of order, the hon. Mr. Speaker, this is the first opportunity I have had to raise this point of order, I only got Hansard just a few minutes before I carne to the House. And I want to refer Your Honour to tape 1040, yesterday's lluns;Jrd, 'I'M - 2, where the Minister of Public v·.rorks and Services (Mr. Young) made a statement and accused me of misleading the House.

And the hon. gentleman said,in the heat of a debate that was taking place, the hon. gentleman said, 'I can produce letters, Mr. Chairman, that the hon. Leader of the Opposition asked for paint, carpet, desks, chesterfields, furniture and everything else in his office'. Now, Mr. Speaker, the letters I have in front of me I am going to table,but the letters were addressed to Your Honour and not to the Minister of Public Works. And perhaps just to set the record straight, Mr.

Speaker, I will read one of the letters only and then I will lay the total correspondence on the table of the House so that the press c~n have access to it and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador will have access to it and see who is right and who is wrong and who is telling the truth and who is not telling the truth. 'Dear Mr. Speaker: As of Monday, May lOth, 1982, members and staff of the Opposition office moved quarters to the old Government Members' office. I write at this time to request the following'- and I rnig~t add this is the only request that was made, Mr.

S'Jeaker- 'One, that the carpet throughout the entire office be thoroughly 2 2 2. ~i -

June 8, 1982 Tape No . 10 44 so - 2 MR . NEARY : steamed; t\~O , some renovutions which can be clarified at the time of inspection; three, a complete paint job; four , and most importantly and above all , \.,.e need addit ional te:lephone lines . At the moment we have five lines to serve sixteen people ; therefore we cannot work effectively . I would appreciate your prompt action to these matters . Please feel free to call if you need any further information .• Signed, Yours truly . Now, Mr .

Speaker, I think it is imp.coper , wrony , completely ouL uf onl ~r ~nd llll[l.lrli..lnwnl.IIY for the hon. gentleman to try to mis le ad the llouse the wuy he did yesterday . SOME HON . MEMBER S: Oh , oh . MR . NEARY : 1qell, ~l .r . Speaker, I do not know if the bon . gentleman did it in the heat of debat~ but I would certainly like for Your Honour to direct the hon. gentleman to withdraw these remarks because they ore completely untrue as ca n be seen in the letters that I just tabled . MR . MARSHALL : To the point of order, Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : President of the Council . MR .

MARSHALL : To the point of order , the hon . Mr. Speaker, this does noL come within the real~ of a point of order mainly because it comes in the area of a difference of opinion as to the inter~retation of one member as opposed to another . And secondly, of course, a ?Oint of order has to be raised 222t1

,June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1045 NM - 1 MIL M/\H~;II/\J,I.: i.JTunetliCJ.lely, <~ l Lhe time the alleged disorder occurs, otherwise we would have a regurgitation over and over again of past proceedings of the House,~nd it is a well established and well known rule. MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. ~he hon. me~ber for .the Strait Thank you. The hon. minister can, unless he chooses to withdraw in which case the matter will be at an end - AN RON. MEMBER: No. MR. ROBERTS: - okay, if he is not choosing to withdraw perhaps I could say a l••ord or h;o in response to the - MR.

CARTER: inaudible) to a professor. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I rejoice that unlike the qentleman from St. John's North (Mr. Carter) I usually know what I am talking about when I am speaking in the House. Now let me come back to the point of responding to the comments made by the Covcrnment House Leader (Mr. Marshall). First,of all the rules ,as Your Honour knows,say that the question of privilege must be raised at the earlies'c ?ractica :)le moment, and that of course as my friend, the J"eader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) said was today,because he only now had the Hansard and saw specifically what the Minister of Public Works is therein reported to have said. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, I am quite sure Your Honour is not goinq to be taken in by the statement that this is a difference of opinion between two hon. members. This is not a matter of

interpretation of facts. The Minister of Public Works made a statement of fact,, or made what he alleged was a statement of fact, and said that my colleague was being untruthful. My colleague has hoisted the Minister of Public Works on his own petard and left him there to rotate because the - 2227

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1045 NM - 2 MR. DINN: Unfortunately the bon. member - MR. ROBERTS: Now the bon. gentleman from pleasantville (Mr. Dinn) is erupting again. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please~ MR. CARTER : Come on, 'scra9'. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: MR. ROBERTS: May I proceed, Mr. Speaker? I thank you, Sir. As I was sFying ,the Leader of the Opposition has hoisted the Minister of Public Work on his own petard and left him there to rotate, a position which is doubtless uncomfortable for the Minister of Public Works and thil t is not my con c: L~ ,-n. MR. YOUNG: (Inaudible} . MR.

TUL:t<: The most appropriate place. MR. ROBERTS: The concern, Mr. Speaker, is that the members of this House, Sir, are admonished by the rules of this House not to say certain things and use certain phrases. The Minister of Public Works (Mr. Young) used a phrase which was unparliamentary und offends the privilC<JCS of this !Jouse and he ought to be asked to withdraw it, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Public Works and Services. MR. YOUNG : Mr. Speaker, I did use that term, I also,if you read a little bit of Hansard further down,I used a term in which I withdrew before I made the statem~nt.

I also said that he was a liar, somewhere along the line. And, Mr. Speaker, if it is unparliamentary I agree with the House ~a~r-AN HON. MEMBER: He withdrew it already. MR. YOUNG: !I an surd also quottc~ s, l wit -ild r ,\VI but he is not telling a lie: I withdrew it then. But, Mr. Speaker, I would like to go along a little bit further because that letter was written, Mr. Speaker, after the Opposition was inRtructcd which channels to go through to ask for furniture in their orriccs. 222A

June R, 1982 Tape No. 1045 NM - 3 MR. YOUNG: And what I quoted they asked for, it was done verbally and then they carne back and wrote a letter. MH. Ni-:1\HY: Th~t is not true and you know it. 2 2 2 ~I

' J'me 8, 1982 Tape No. 1046 ah-1 MR. YOUNG: Okay, that is not true. Mr. Speaker, I stand by what I said. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Not having been in the Chair yesterday afternoon when these statements were allegedly made, they were made in committee, from what I have beard today I do feel it is not a point of order ,just a difference of opinion between two hon. members. And further to that,the hon. Minister of Public Works (Mr.Young) on yesterday afternoon withdrew his unparliamentary remarks. STA'rEMENTS BY ~UNISTERS MR. SPEAKER: The hon.President of the Council.

MR.MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I want to read as a statement a telex which was forwarded today by the hon. the Premier to the leaders of the churches who corresponded with him by telex yesterday and the contents of which arc already public knowledge. Now this is the response that the Premier has made to the church leaders.

It reads as follows: 1 Please be assured that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador shares the concerns of the church leaders who sent the telex of June 2nd. 've, too, earnestly desire that the offshore issue be resolved by negotiations. 1 We have steadfastly maintained that negotiation is the only acceptable way to resolve the matter. These negotiations must proceed on the basis of both governments agreeing to set ownership aside durin<_] the period of negctiations G~.nd permanently when an 2 2 ·:; n

."June 8,1982 Tape No. 1046 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: agreement is reached. Othenlise the successor to either government could tear up the agreement. This actually occured in Australia and with this instance before us I feel you will appreciate we could not subject the future of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to such a possibility. 'With ownership set aside, the provincial government proposes it be replaced with a joint management regime and a meaningful revenue sharing proposal.

We made a realistic proposal to this end to the federal government on January 25th last. 'This propos~] cnvisnycs a joint agency comprising three federal and three provincial appointees with an independent chairman. The agency would administer joint regulations. •The revenue sharing prorosal suqqests the province receive the same proportion of government type revenues as Alberta received before it reached its present affluent position, that is ,seventy­ five per cent with the remainder being paid to the Government of Canada.

This would be the position until we reach fiscal and economic maturity which includes in its criteria when the province acquired the same employment level nnd per capita income as the average of its sister provinces, when our taxation levels drop to the Canadian average, when our educational, health arid transportation structures equalled those with the rest of Canada and other standards all aimed at both the people of this Province and its government attaining equality with their fellow Canadians.

When this level is realized we indicated our willingness to share substantially more with the Government of Canada and the people of Canada. 2 2 3 .,

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1046 ah-3 MR.MARSHALL: ' Unfortunately the federal government has not addressed itself to the proposal and has merely offered us the Nova Scotian 2 '1 ·_.'I 'J .'

June 8, 1982 Tape 1047 EC - l MR. MARSHALL: •proposal which is not joint managem ent but merely confers a weak, consultative role on the Province in that it is administered by three federal and two provincial appointees with the Government of Canada having ultimate right to override all decisions. The revenue formula is related to equalization payments only.

This is unsatisfactory to us for many reasons, not. the ieast of .whic)l. :j.s thqt ':j.t does not address itself ·. ~ . directly fO th,p so~i4l and ,economic w~ll-bei~g of the ' ' '' ~eop}e of Newfoundland and Labrador as our proposal does i~ tqkipg into account levels of employment, per capita earned income, educational facilities, etc. •Our proposal has been received by independent sources outside this Province as eminently reasonable. We are forwarding a copy of it and would invite and appreciate your comments. Therefore, we agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments that a negotiated settlement is preferable.

We believe this possible if the Central Government would set ownership aside and address itself in a meaningful fashion to our proposal. We e~rnestly solicit your good offices to attempt to cause the federal government to negotiate in this manner. We also agree that in the unfortunate event that the issue must be judicially resolved, it should be done in a manner which recognizes the legitimate interests and concerns of both parties. It was for this reason that we made reference to the Supreme Court of Newfoundland.

At the time the federal government was attempting to bring the issue to the Supreme Court of Canada through the S.I.U. case without reference to the highest court in the Province. Our reference was made to attempt to preclude this occurrence and at the time we made clear the reason for it and that we prefe rred a negotiated resolution. 2 2 3 c;

June 8, 1982 Tape 1047 EC - 2 MR. MARSI!l\J,J.: 111'he J eqi ti llkJtc ctm<.:crns ,md interests of the people of this Province cannot be realized in the event of judicial resolution unless the Supreme Court of Newfoundland has the opportunity to render a considered and reasoned decision on the matter. In the first instance, precedence and custom require this. In all similar instances involving issues of this nature, the opportunity of renderinq u. rcusonC'cJ, considered decision was always granted to the Supreme Court of the affected province.

It must have been contemplated that a full and complete final decision ought not be given by the final court, that is, the Supreme Court of Canada, unless it had the benefit of the opinion of the Supreme Court of the province to weigh with the arguments presented to it. This being the custom, you will appreciate that we received a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada to proceed with the federal reference on November 29th regardless of whether the Supreme Court of Newfoundland had rendered its decision with abject astonishment. We strongly feel the Supreme Court of Canada has erred in this cecision.

In our view, it is virtually impossible to expect the Supreme Court of Newfoundland to render a considered decision by November 29th. The issues are too complex ar0 the materials far too voluminous. Fer seven years lc qal scho 1 o.1rs havt' hecn preparing Newfcundland's case and the material to be considered is ~ammoth.

"The interest and concern of the people of Newfoundland require that the Supreme Court of the Province be given such time as necessary to render its decision and not have a timetable imposed upon it which \vill certainly not perTTli t it to render its considered and weighted opinion in the matter. 2 2 j /,

.1u1w H, L9H2 'l'upe No. 1048 MJ - l MR. W. Ml\RSHALL: "Then,when it has rendered its decision, the Supreme Court of Canada would address the matter in the normal and usual way. We were astonished that the Supreme Court of Canada decided to depart from accepted practice and custom. However, it is the final court of appeal p_nd has the ultimate judicial authority.

I now ap~eal to y8n to use your qood offices to persuade the federal governm~nt firstiy: to negotiate on the basis on setting ownership aside during negotiations and permanently if an agreement is reached,and to address our proposal ol .January 25th as the basis of agreement and, if it is unable !il) I<) <111 I :1 i :; , : :~ • <'Ill 1< I I y , I <> .1 :~> k i I I<> oi<JI'<'<' I<> lr1rlll<'J" il'H>ly to tll<• Sur?reme of Canada requesting it to postpone hearing the questions referred to it by Canada until the Supreme Court of Newfoundland has rendered its decision on the question referred to it.

"Government is prepared to arrange a meeting between you and the Provinc~s negotiating team, should you so desire to respond to any questions you may have on our compromise proposal." Mr. Speaker, I have a few copies h<•t-<' tlwt"<' <trc nthor copios cominq out for ci rcul <Jtion to the hon. members.

In connection with this,finally may I say that receiving this communication from the heads of the church , in their telex the heads of the church seemed to indicate and L'XPl ' L'SS ,1 ccrt,1in <1111ount o[ concern over the state of relationships between the federal and provincial government and they say, and I quote, We cannot help observing that this breakdown has become more apparent in the action of the federal government. in referring the issue to the Supreme Court of Canaea while at tho i nst.>ncc:> of the provincial qovernment another reference on the same issue was already pending." So, Mr.

Speaker, what we have done in response, we have explained to the 2 2 J ~-~

June 8, 19 82 Tape No . 104 8 MJ - 2 MR . W . MARSHALL : gentle!:lan , to the leaders of the church , \.;hat our position is .

We appreciate their commentinCJ on matter of economic and social nnd poltti.cnl <.:<'n<'<•rn in lhis Province , we have =orwarded to them a copv of our oropo~al , and since they have shown an interest , '.Yhich 1-1e •.;elcom~ , in the matter we also say to them , :md we say to them sincerely, thut 1o~e would appreciate them reviewi~n this eminently reasonable proposal , lookinq at the orooosal and us in<J their con<> id<"'r.:~'> 1<.• in r 1\ ','tl .,, , which they have,lvith the fedcr<.~11Jovernmcnl to,firslly .111d foremost, which all Newfoundlanders wish , to achii'VC .1 resolution of this matter through negotiation on a reasonable basis , the basis that is set forth in that telox .

And if Lhis is improper to see what they can do to right what appears to be and what is obviously a com 9lete de9arture, and a mystiral to us , departure from custom of the Supreme Court of Canada in settiny down this matter for hearing before the Suprcn1<~ Co 111·t of the affected Prcvince , that is ,Newfoundland ,has had an opportunity to give a reasoned and considered decision . MR . S. NEARY : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPE.ZU<ER (Russell)..:_ Before I recoqnize the hon . the L.t-ndcr of thl' Opposil ion (Mr . ~ .

N,.,,,·y), I wo111ld I ik1• l•• welcome some groups to the galleries today : A delegation from the T\"illingate , New Norld Island- Change Islands Devclo-:>ment Association , 2 2 ~.,:

.... June 8, 1982, Tape 1049, Page 1 -- apb MR. SPRAKER(Russ0ll): accompanied by their co-ordinator,Mr. Winston Jennings. I would like to welcome as well twenty-two students from St. John Bosco School, Shea Heights, in the district of Kilbride accompanied by their ·vice-principal,Mr. Carrol 1 and teacher,Mrs. Gill. And welcome also to the galleries twenty Grade IX students from St. Anne's School in Dunville with their teacher Mrs. King. I welcome you to the galleries today. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NJ.::ARY: Mr.

Speaker, first of all I regret, Sir, that the Minister of Energy(Mr. Marshall) did not give me a copy of his telex in advance. Although the han. gentleman sat in his seat for several minutes before the House met, waving the telex at me and indicated that he was going to read a telex, he did not have the courtesy to send me a copy. So it is ver·y difficul L to corruncnt on the content of the telex except to say briefly, Mr. Speaker, that first of all I want to compliment the churches, the heads of the denominations for taking the initiative in this matter.

The squabbling and the battling that has been going on between the provincial government and Ottawa is a matter of grave concern to all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and is a matter of grave concern to the heads of the denominations who are probably the most respected people in Newfoundland and Labrador. The minister did not say anything new, and it is going to be awfully discouraging, 2237

June 8, 1982, Tape 1049, Page 2 -- apb MR . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to the heads of the denominations to rend Lhilt Lelex and to hc••r· the few remarks that the minister added after he read the telex. There is nothing new in it except that the hon . gentleman continues to blame Ottawa. t-ty understanding of the telex, and I do not have a copy of it, v1as that the heads of the denominations asked both governments to put aside their differences, return to the bargaining table and get do\vn to hard negotiations and try to resolve this matter in the best interests of all concerned . Mr.

Speaker, the heads of tho churches felt thilt if the squ<~l>bling between the- provincial government and Ottawa continued that tho wounds would only grow deeper and deeper, and the matter would never be resolved . Now, what I was hoping that the minister would do today would be to stand in his place in this House and sa y, ' Yes, we agree with the heads of the denominations, \oJe are going to take the initiative and we are going to withdra~· our cilse from the Newfoundland Appeals Court - MR. CALLAN : MR.

NEARY : They would not do that. - and hope that Otta\oJa will withdraw their case from the Supreme Court or - SOt-U:: liON. ME~1B£::RS: Oh, oh ! Come on ! MR. NEARY: -or, Mr . Speaker, to ask for an 2~: )rl

June 8, 1982 Tape 1050 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: indefinite postponement of the case before the Newfoundland 1\f-'f'('ul s Court , iF Ottawa would do the same thing, and then get back and negotiate a settlement, Mr. Speaker. I agree with the heads of the denominations that the only way that this matter will be resolved is for both sides to sit down with one single objective in mind and that is to settle this matter once and for all and get on with the job. The heads of the churches, Mr. Speaker, are not asking both sides to sit down with a view of settling this matter in favour of one side or the other.

What they are asking is that the squabbling and the bickering and the battering that has been going on over this issue be put aside, partisan politics be brushed aside, and that both sides sit down - MR. Wl\RREN: They will not do that. MR. NEARY: - and negotiate in good faith. Now, Mr. Speaker, therefore I think it is going to be awfully discouraging,the reply that was given by the hon. gentleman. It is very discouraging to us here in this House and it is going to be very discouraging to the people of this Province. 'l'hc t(~lcx docs exactly , Hr.

Speaker, what the churches asked the government not to do,and that is to blame Ottawa,or have Ottawa blame the Province, Mr. Speaker, or vice versa. The churches are saying to the Province, 'Well, do riot continue blaming Ottawa,or Ottawa do you not continue to blame the Province. Get back to the bargaining table, negotiate in good faith and resolve this matter in the best interests of all concerned. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 2 ? :, -l - J.

June 8, 1982 Tape 1050 PK -2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Are there any other Ministerial Statements? The hon. Minister of Social Services. ~1R. HI_CKEY: 1>1r. Speaker, 1 take great pleasure in announcing to this hon. House pursuant to legislation

an Act To Establish The Alcohol And Drug Dependency Commission Of Newfoundland and Labrador, which '~as passed at the last session of this House subsequently proclaimed June 1 of this year, initial steps are now beiny taken to make the 1\lcohol and Drug Dependency Commission operational as of today. AN HON. MEMBER: Badcock ? MR. HICKEY: Did I hear some names, Mr. Speaker: MR. NEARY: Another place to appoint (inaudible) . MR. HICKEY: The Commission, l1r. Speaker, .,.,ill be chaired by a Ms. Eve Beck. SOME BON. ~1BERS : Hear, hear ! SOI-1E HON. MEMBERS : Ob, oh ! ~ffi. HICKEY: Ms. Eve Beck. And by the way, Mr.

Speaker, the la:iy is in the gallery. SOME BON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HICKEY: Us. Beck is currently employed '"i th the Extension Services of 'lemorial University as Programme Development Supervisor. She holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Adult an.d Community Education from the State University of Ne>Y York. She brings to her new position considerable experience 2 2 J! n

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1051 SD - l MR. HICKEY: and demonstrated expertise in team leadership, team building, in working with a variety of qroups of volunteers and professionals and in mobilizing community resources for action. Ms. Beck, over the years, has demonstrated intense interest in the addictions field by her involvement with the Alcohol and Drug Addiction Foundation as a board member, and in her spearheading the Memorial University Extension, 1\.ddiction '"eaching/ Learning Project.

According to the requirements of the act, fourteen persons have been named to the commission who will include people with experience in the addictions field as well as people with experience in other significantly related community interests. The members of the commission are as follows: Por the St. John's reqion, Mr. Ralph Davis; the Eastern region, Father Gregory Pumphrey; for the Central region, Dr. Thomas Cantwell; for the Western .region, Mrs. Doreen Chalk; for the Labrador region, Mrs. Judy McGrath;and the members at large are: Mr. James O'Mara, Reverend :'Jallace Baker and Mrs. Audrey Manning.

Another· person will be appoint ed in this category following consultation with the Native grouos in Labrador. Representing the Department of Education,'1iss ;.;anya Trembley; the Department of Health, Dr. Rob ert Williams; Department of Justice, Mr. Herbert Buckingham; Department of Social Services, Mr. Freeman Compton and Mr. Calvin Payne. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. lliCKEY: Mr. Speaker, in addition to the persons named above, I wish to announce that the provincial President of Allied Youth will be invited to attend all meetings of the commission as a non-voting member.

The government is hopeful that the establishment of the commission will mark the beginning of a vigorous new approach to alcohol and drug addiction 2241

June 8, 1982 Tape No . 1051 so - 2 MR . HICKEY : related problems in Ne•,rfoundland and Labrador . 1 wou2d like to point out therefore that a total budget of $1 .2 million will enable the commission to do two things. Firstly , it will permit the continuation of the groundwork done by the Alcohol and Drug Addiction Foundation over the years as well as services developed by the Salvation ~rmy Harbour Light and Treatment programme, the Talbot House Detox Onit, the Native Alcohol Rehabilitation programmes and Alcoholics Anonymous .

It will in addition, however,permit new activities to the tune of some $500,000 to commencc,:),and n..:."W initiatives such as the identification of needs, treatment and rehabilitation , prevention, education awareness, research and community outreach p~~ - The government is confident therefore that the establishment of the commission will provide for a significant new thrust in the total area of alcohol and drug dependency . We are confident, Mr. Speaker , that a balanced and competent commission is being appointed . We are most pleased c:t the cal i bcr of individun1 s who:w scrv ices we h..! VI.!

IJcc.m ..tl>lc Lo uiJL..!l ll, .:tm.J we <JL "l.! ::;un.: 2 .... • I .!. .. .

June 8, 1982 Tape 1052 EC - 1 MR. HICKEY: that the commission would be sensitive to the various needs within the Province. I would refer specifically to two such groups, i.e., women and youth, who up until now have been at the periphery of services both here and in other provinces. We believe, Mr. Speaker, that thjs commission has both the awareness and the commitment to give these areas the necessary attention. The commission will be responsible for establishing 1 at a regional and community level, activities which would involve interested volunteers.

A great number of individuals have given time and energy over the years with limited resources and insufficient recognition. Mr. Speaker, I pay tribute today to these individuals, and I know that they look forward today to a new era in the field of addiction. I solicit their ongoing support and involvement. All who are interested in this area can find a role to pay through the outreach activities which will be provided to the new commission. SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: ·--- MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: llear, hear! Mr. Speaker . The hon. the member for Mr.

Speaker, my colleagues on this side welcome the appointment of Eve ::eck in charge of this group,and also all members on the committee. I will say that I know several of them personally and I am sure that they will do justice to the Alcohol and Drug Commi>sion. However, Mr. Speaker, I am surprised. This is the third statement that the minister has issued since this House opened and he has not yet had the courtesy of qivinq me a copy of his statement before he mentioned it. It is very difficult, Mr. Speaker, 2 2 4 :1

June 8, 1982 Tape 1052 EC - 2 MR . WARREN: to respond to a statement when one does not get a copy . Hr . Speaker, I would like to note also , Mr . Speaker, that the member for St . Mary's - The Capes (Mr . Hearni made a statement in Committee a few days ago, saying that this government is reall y hypocritical when we are trying to bring an Alcohol and Drug Addiction Committee into the Province and we are spending roughly $1 million, but still and all we are expecting to raise $55 million on the sale of alcohol , 2 2 ~I

,_ June 8, 1982, Tape 1053, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: and here we are trying to r~isc $55 million or $60 million selling alcoholic beverages, and we are just putting a drop in the bucket trying to fight that terrible disease. Futhermore, Mr. Speaker, I am surprised that minister said there would be a person appointed later to work with the natives in the Province. Mr. Speaker, I am, sur>:Jrised that tbe minister has not addressed this more seriously. Because, ae has been said in this House and has been said throughout the Province, there is - MR. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER(Russell): Order, please! 'l'hc hon. the Prcsidcn t of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Response to Ministerial Statements is not the time for debate. The hon. the member for Torngat Mountains(Mr. Warren) is debating the ~t~temcnt rendered by the Minister of Social Services(Mr. Hickey) and therefore is out of order. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, to that point of order. My hon. colleague is merely raising some questions,which he entitled to do under Ministerial Statements.

He is asking the minister why more of the $55 million or $60 million that is collected in revenue every year through the sale of booze, and the advertising of booze, why there is not more money put - SOME liON. MEMBERS: ----· MR. SPEAKER: 2? .. ~ '+ .'l Oh, oh! Order, please!

June 8, 1982, Tape 1053 , Page 2 -- apb MR . NEARY : - into the fou ndat ion . The hon . gentleman is entitled to do that and I would submit there is no point of order, Hr . Speaker . 'MR . lllCJ<~Y: t-lr . SpeakCI ". MR . SPEAKER(Russell) : The hon . the Ministor of social Services . MR . HICKEY : The bon . gentleman is not asking questions , he is being provocative . lie is being blinded by the record of the former Liberal Government in this Province . They did not spend a penny, not a penny . SOME HON . MEl'1B ERS : Hear , hear ! MR . NEARY : What about the Commission of Government and Responsible Government?

S O~ m HON . MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR . HTCKP.Y: 1\nd, ~lr . SP<'.lkC'r, ftll ·tlwt - more, I do not ?Ossess the instant charisma to bring the native groups in Labrador together . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Oh, oh ! HR . SPEAKER : Order , please ! MR . HICKEY : Let them choose their own . MR . SPEAKER : Order, please ! Order, please ! The hon . the member for Tornga t Mountains was wandering some\v;1a t in to the rc <:~l m of de b, It c and I would suggest that he be more specific in responding to the Ministerial Statement . MR . Wi\RREN : Yes, Mr . Speaker .

Again I would like to congratulate the members appointed , but 1 will say to tho hon . minister th-.~t i[ they w..1nt Lu Ll'~·.ll the alcoholic problem in this Province seriously, spend more money, spend more of the taxpayers' money that you you are collect~ng on the sale of alcoholic bcvcr~qcs, spend mo re of it in the right areas . And by doing th~L 2". ~ ~Lttl

.tunc' a, 1982 , 'J';)p0 1053, ['age 3 -- c:tpb MR . WARREN: I wauld say that t .he minister woul d be more receptive to the people of this Prov ince. MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : of Municipal Affairs . SOME RON . MEMBERS: MRS . NEI'lHOOK: The hon. the M;inister Hear , hear! Mr . Speake r , I am pleased to present this statement explaining my departments improved Selid Waste Management Facilities Programme: SO!"t~ . !IQN_. _ ~1f.Ml3£:!l§_: Hear, hear ! MIL NJ.::WilOOK: Over the past several years , Mr.

Speaker , capital funding for the provision of solid 1~aste management facilities was arranged through two departments of government , namely, the Department of Municipal Affairs and the Department o£ l~nvironment. With regard to the provision o·f these facilities in munic .ipal areas throughout the Province, it has been the policy, with few exceptions, to 2247 ..

June 8, 1982 Tape 1054 PK - l MRS . NEvJHOOK : arrange funding on a 50/50 cost shared basis. Howeve~ with a transfer of the capital budget allocation for solid waste management facilities from the Department of Environment to the Department of Municipal Affairs,it became necessary to institute a new policy for the provision of funding for the establishment of these facilities. MR . TULK : Do not ask for any. MRS.

NEWHOOK: In this connection, I am pleased to announce that government has responded to the need for increased assistance in the provision of solid waste management facilities and has approved a 75/25 cost shared programme with the Province - SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MRS. NEWHOOK: - meeting 75 per cent of the cost of the approved facilities. The programme will be administered by the Department of Municipal Affairs through the usc of block fundin~ with the approval or the minister.

Th i.s flexibility is required by the minister because of the lead­ time required to arrange agreements between owners and users of the facilities and the possible price variation between pre-tender estimates and their fin~l cost. It is intended that the regional concept will be used whenever possible with ownership of the facility given to one large municipal J~it o~ local service district as the case may be.

The programme provides for a legal agreement between the minister and the owner municipality or local service d~strict in which the facility is located, and for a further legal agreement to be approved by the minister between the owner and other municipalities or users of the facility.

June 8, 1982 Tape 1054 PK - 2 ~mS. NF.WIIOOK: 'fhis agreement between owne r and users will provide for a charge by the owners to cover annual maintenance and operational costs together with a portion of the initial capital cost . 'l'he sharable cost of projects approved by the minister may include development of land-fill operatio ns, incinerators, loading ramps, access roads , and all other costs deemeti necessary for the establishment of these f.:~cilities , but is not intended to include the cost of .• ,.,,_lectio n and transportation of waste materials to the site or for main tenance and operational costs .

It is envisaged that the new programme will provide for a more orderly development of wn!;L c Rlillli'lfJCmenl f,1cilltics thCOU ~JhOUt the Province. SOME BON . MEMBERS: HR . SPEAKER (Russell} : Belle Is le . MR. ROBERTS: Hear , hear ! The hon. member for the Strait of Mr . Speaker, the initial imp~se of some on both side s might be to make sport of subject of this statement,but my colleagues and I do not feel that that is .Jl :111 <~ppropri n tc , been usc T 2 ? . q ·- 4

June 8, 1982 Tape 1055 NM - l MR. ROBERTS: think the subject on which the minister has spoken, while it perhaps is singularly lacking in glamour,is nonetheless one of the more important subjects, or one of the more topics. It is not ter.ribly exciting to speak of garbage, Mr. Speaker - ~IR. NEARY: over there. MR. ROBERTS : They are experts on it - but rather I think we should realize that in many parts of this Province today the disposal of garbage. and I'do not know if- the minister speaks of solid, I do not know if there is a liquid garbage disposal programme or not.

I do not know whether it i· a term of art or what,but anyway the disposal of garbage and sewaqe, waste of all sorts whether it is human produced or simply human induced, is a very pressing and urgent problem. And I am sure that municipal bodies throughout the Province will welcome the news and we share in that welcome, the news that the government are prepared to pay a little bit more towards the cost of providin~ these servjces.

I do note that the minister is reserving unto herself the power, if I understood her statement correctly- ~nd I have to put it that way because of course the minister, like her colleagues, did us the singular lack of courtesy in failing to send any of us a copy of her statement in advance- T do note though, Mr. Speaker, that the minister appears to be reserving unto herself the power to decide where these grants go. Now, Mr. Speaker, I have no objection to that in principle. I notice she is being congratulated by her colleague from Burgeo-Bay d'Espoir (Mr.

Andrews),who may also share the view thut ministers ought to reserve these things unto themselves, I am not so much concerned with that as I am with the results and I would simply say to the minister that we on this side will be 2 2 ::; !1

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1055 NM - 2 MR. ROBERTS: certain to make certain that the minister acts fairly and impartially. Without qettinq into debate,which I am not allowed to, her record in the department in partiality is less than impressive. Her record in impartiality is even less impressive,I should say atop that, so we would be saying, Mr. Speaker - MR. CARTER: Garbage! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I know my friend from St. John's North (Mr.

Carter) is an expert on garbage, he has wallowed in it all these years, but I wish he would try lo IH•••d the rules. lie hu.,; Lt voice, Sir, like a foq horn, It is annoying, penetrating, and of now value. But it does interrupt. Now I was saying to the minister that we on this side will be trying to ensure that she is impurtial in her administraton of these grants, that they are sent where they are most needed.

And I could tell her, and I am sure she is fully aware,that throughout the rural parts of this Province there are numerous communities that have a solid waste garbage disposal problem and I would hope the minister in administering this amount of money which is now bein'1 - ~1R . REID : Give us some (inaudible). MR. ROBF:RTS: The original conflict of interest gentleman is erupting again, Mr. Speaker. He too may be interested in garbage disposal. I do not want to get into his profession, or even his personal interests, I just want to finish my statement, Mr. Speaker. 11R. REID: Two different points of view. MR.

ROBERTS: What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman - you know, Mr. Speaker, in some houses mf assembly they have what they call 22JI

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1056 ah-1 MR.ROBERTS: gas house gang. We have a gas house ganq and it pr<~ll~cs exactly the odors you would expect from a gas house by the gentlerran who sit down here to my far right politically as well as geographically. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me just finish my stAtement to the minister by saying, because she is taking it seriously as am I,and I only wish that the gentleman so interested in garbage would take it as seriously as do those of us concerned with the public wheal. Mr.

Speaker, what I am sayinq to the minister for the fourth time,and Your Honour is generously permitting me to try to finish my statment.If other hon. members would refrain from interrupting my few relatively pacific words - HR. CF.RTER: Rubbish. MR.ROBERTS: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are talking about rubbish,and the hon. gentleman from St. John's North (Mr. Carter} is at once at home. Now as I am suyin<J to the minLstcr, Mr·. Spe•lkcc, we on Lhi~; sidt ' will be watching very carefully to make sure that she does admimister these votes impartially and that she gives them money for rubri~b where rubbish really is.

Now that may be some Tory districts,and maybe that is the way it works out- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROBERTS: -but we will simply be acting, Sir, to make sure that she does administer it impartially . It is a good step forward and we welcome it, Sir. MR.SPEAKER(Russell} : MR.NEARY: ORAL QUESTIONS The hon. Leader of the Oppositi on. Mr. Speaker, I would like to din~ c t 2 2 j ./

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1056 ah-2 MR.NEARY: a question to the Minister of Energy (Mr. Marshall) in the absence of the Premier,who Ls not in his scat, who is spcnclinq less and less time in the House these clays. Mr. Speaker, is the hon. gentleman aware that the Iron Ore Company of Canada has sent out a circular letter under the signature of Brian Mulroney, the other Brian - MR. ROP.ERTS: Brian the 'inaudible). -- --- --- MR.

NEARY: Yes, the two Brians are at it again - to suppliers outside of Quebec advising the suppliers outside of Quebec that in future they would have to conform to Bill 101 in the province of Quebec which regulates the language of trade and business and in future all its suppliers outside of Quebec,and I presume there are quite a few here in Newfoundland who supply the Iron Ore Company of Canada,will have to send their catalogues, their invoices, their manuels and guides and lists of parts and everything else that they have in both languages! in French and in English? Is the hon. gentleman aware of that?

MILS I'J·:t\1\J•:H (Russell ) : The hem. President o [ the Council. MR.MARSHALL: The hon. Premier today is at the convocation,graduation exercises at the Trades College. JTe is speaking there and will be along later. AN H~li.:_ __ MEMBER: The College of Fisheries. MR. MARSHALL: The College of Fisheries,I am sorry. As to the question that is asked by the hon. gentleman, no, I am !tlll ,\1\ c'l\lf'lOYl'c' or ~he Tron Ore Comp.lny of Canarla. I am not privy to the communications that Mr. Mulrcney sends in his position as chief executive officer,as president or what have you.

But apparantely in doing this he is enforcing-if in fact he has done it,as he probably has if the hon. gentleman says he has- he is enforcing the local preference policy of the ~rovince 225

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1056 ah-3 MR. MARSHALL : of Quebec. As far as we are concerned,we have asserted ourselves with a local preference policy here. It is J. policy, by tlw Wdy ,lh.JL Llll' lH>Jl. gentlemen there opposite have resisted from time to time and criticized 2.: .'J ll

June 8, 1982 Tape 1057 EC - 1 MR. Ml\RSIIALL: roundly and have supported their colleagues in Ottawa wh<'n they hu.vr~ tried to take on~ of the major mc<1ns of implementing this policy, that is, control of the offshore, away from us. As far as the Iron Ore Company of Canada is concerned, we have always been, ourselves, diligently looking at the purchases that are being made up in the industrial part of Labrador, as well as other p.1rts ot" tho Provinr'C"' nutsi<lC', illl<l we ilrP V<'ry concr'rnod with practices, if this is what the hon. gentleman is getting on to in his question 1 of contracting out.

And we are doing everything we can to assure that the optimum return is gained to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador from the resources of Newfoundland and Labrador. MH. NE!\RY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEJ\.RY: Perhaps the hon. gentleman ·--- misunderstood me, Mr. Speaker.

This has nothing to do with local preference, either in the Province of Quebec or in Newfoundland; it has to do with linguistic rights, it has to do with language. 1\.nd the circular lP-tter that went out under the signature of Brian r-lulroney - I will table it later, Mr. Speaker - but what the President of the Iron Ore Company of Canada is advising suppliers in Newfoundland and Labrador is that from now on their purchase orders, their invoices, their catalogues, that everything will have to be done in both languages, in English and French.

And this, by the way, came from a Newfoundland supplier, so the circulars are reaching the Newfoundland business people. Mr. Speaker, what I am asking the hon. gentleman is if he thinks this is going to 2 ., ' ·- , J c,

June 8, 1982 'l'ape 1057 1-:C - 2 MR. NEARY: impose a hardship and additional expe~se on the local suppliers, and if so, what does the hon. gentleman propose to do about it? MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSill\LL: Mr. Speaker, the bill to which the hon. gentleman refers, of course, is a bill passed by the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Quebec. As such it would apply to the Province of Quebec, subject to any determination as to the power of that assembly to pass it, and it would not a)~ly in the Province of Newfoundland.

If the Iron Ore Company of Canada is in fact attempting to apply Bill No. 101 or any legislation of the Province of Quebec to businesses in this Province, you know, we shall take appropriate action to remind them that the proper place of jurisdiction to look to is the House of Assembly of Newfoundland and the laws passed by the Government of Newfoundland, not by the Province of Quebec. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEl\RY: Mr. Speaker, that is prccis~:ly what the Iron Ore Company of Canada is attempting to do.

Their head office is in the Province of Quebec and they are attempting to force suppliers in Newfoundland and Labrador to use both languages. In my opinion, Mr. Speaker, this is going to be rather difficult, and I have received 2.,. ,., .c.,) fl

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1058 SD - 1 MIL N l~l\HY: stronq objection.

I resent it personally and I would hope that the hon. gentlemen and the administration would resent the ract that a law passed in the Province of Quebec they are now attempting to foist that onto Newfoundland business. ~ Jw what will happen, could the hon. gentleman tell the House, what will happen if the Iron Ore Company of Canada arc forced to enforce Bill lQL ~hich regulates the language of trade aqd busin~s~ 1 what will happen if they start to take the business away from Newfoundland because they do not conform to Bill 101 and make their presentations in both French and English? MR.

SPEI\KER (Russell): The hon; P.r~sident of the Council. - ·-· .. ·--·-- --- ·---- MR. Ml\RSlll\LL: Mr. Speaker, I knovl that He do not answer hypothetical questions here except to say to the hon. gentleman that the people of this Province are well aware that this government is not dilatory about taking steps to protect the right of the people of this Province. And we will continue to do so insofar as the same becomes necessary. Having answered that, I will not be entrapped by the type of question asked by the hen. gentleman.

Gcttinq into an inflammatory question can som etimes giv e rise to an inflammatory ansvrer. But iust let us sily thut as far as this government is concerned, the wishes of th e Legislative Assembly of the Province of Quebec, lvithi n Ll\L'ir own fH -ovince, is entirely their own concern. But it does not apply here, it will not apply here, and any attempt to make it apply here will meet the appropriate reaction by the government of this Province. MR. NEARY: Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Ml,. SP!':l\l<ER: Final supplementary, the hen. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, will the hon. gentleman undertake on behalf of the administration to send

r) q ,. ·-; (. ,: J I

June 8, 1982 Tape No . 1058 so - 2 I'IR . NEARY: an ultimatum to Mr . Mulroney, the President of the Iron Ore Company of Canada, who signed this document, that the Newfoundland business people in this Province have no intention of kowtowing to the Province of Quebec as far a.s Bil:. 101 is concerned and that it \olill in no way hind er the Tron Ore Company uf Cnnad,, fn11n d<)iuq business in this Province. !3ecausc,Mr.

Speaker, the danqcr is that if we do not strai ghten this out with the Iron Ore Company of Canada,that any firm in Newfoundland that is now doing business with IOC may lose that business if they do not put their catalogues , their invoices , their requisitions and any other documents back and forth bet \.;een the Iron Ore Compnny or Canud;:J and the busin ess concerned, Lr t:hcy do not put it in French and English they stand to lose that business . And I would that the hon . gentla~an will ensure the business community that the administration have no inte .ntion of stand ing by and letting that happen . MR .

SPEAKER (Hussell) : The hon . President of l:he C<HIIh'l I. MR . MARSHALL : Mr . Speaker , all of that bravudo is very , you know, lmpressive but I will just repeat a~-~ in to the hon . gentleman that I think the people of Newfoundland and I.abrador are well aHare that this government is not dilatory in enforcin~ the rights of the people of this Province. 22 Jrl

.June a, 1982 •rape No . 1059 ~1J - l MR . iV . ~11\RSiil\J,L : -- ·-----" /\ncl o ne of the riy hts •f the people of this Province is to b0 <.1ovc a·ncd by t h~ taws of this Province and 110t by the la•~s nl · '~~' Y o>lh•·• Ptov iawp i\nd \~I' r.1 n dn th.1 t· , M1· . ~pC':lk<'r , by virt ue or tiHi! fa ct t:ht~t 1~Hh re13peot \:.9 tl1e ~sse.~s of the lron Ore Colnpa!ly o~ ~an ada in Ne\:~fou n9~~f!d, t~ev are e xpl o iting resources over whicl') we have con cn.JJ. . And because ,.,.e have control we can and we will take such steps as are necessu ry .

That is the main reason why •·1e ·,•ant si1.:ilar control in the offshore area . The hon . g'entlemen aqreed 1Yith a resolution a little 1·1hile aqo and now from their statements today in respo nse t o Ministerial Statements . I take it the Leader 1>1 1111 • OjtpW ;il i on ( M'r . S . NC':lry) il'l h~ t ·l~lr;,C'kinq . nut: thC' filet of the matter is 'l'l e are not going to at this stage be <'ntr i.lpped into , you know, into great theatrics tal king about u lll lll;l t um on<.! u ll this tyr>c of thing . What we ·Will do is we l ook at the situ<Jti o n .

Ne 'lav e already indicated what o ur pos itio n is, ~lr . Speaker , and the proof is in the pudding . We have already sh01vn that we are determined to protect the resources of this Province for the people of this Province, and that entails precluding the people of the Province being q uilft•d ' 'Y ;, (.n~ nr o nnLh cr province . Tt is op~)rc ssivc cnoufJh to see the f ederal government making intrusions on the jurisdiction of t his Province , we are hardly going to tolerate another provi nce doing it. ::>UMJ.:; HON. fi1EH8ERS :_ Hear , he.ar : M~.: - f:.: _£W3ERTS : Mr . Speaker . ~~..:...

SPTYU<ER (Russell) : The hon . the member for Strait of lklle J::;lt •. ~m . ROB1·:R1'S : Mr . Speaker , a ~uestion of the Min is ter of Fisheries (Mr . J . t1oJ;"gan), if I might get his attention 2: :) •I

June 8, 1982 Tape No . 1059 MJ - 2 MR . E. ROBERTS : for a moment . The minister I am quite sure is .,w .. lrc thilt 'T' •• 1. ll;:ar~y Limite•<! h.lVC' n<lvi!';c•d lhc p~·opll· in Anchor Point and in Flower 's Cove, bn~'l of which, of co•.u:se , axe in my constituency, that they , T . J . Hardy .lt.1ited of Port nux Basques, will not be operating the fish ?lants . MR. II . YOUNG: (Inaudible) . HR . ROBERTS : I am sorry , did some hon . qentleman opposite wish to say something? Or is the hon . gentleman from llarbour Grace (Mr .ll. Younq) iust simply makinq rude noises?

Now let me cnrry on, if 1 miqht , Sir, without the benefit of the rude noises from the hon . gentleman for .• i.lrbour Grace . T. J . Hardy ... imited have advised the people in Anchor Point and in Flower's Cove that the fish planls i.n cilch <.:onununity wiJ I nol be opc.'r<~l<.•d,.ll t~·o~sl by T .. 1. llardy this year . N0\-1 that is whilt r undcrstilnd the situation is . I wonder if the minister could perhaps tell us what word , if any , he has had :rom the T. J. Hardy firm and if so what he understands the situation to be?

And perhaps , to save a supplementary , what the minister is going to try to do about it ·lith a view o~ trying to qet those plants qoinq? tom . SPE/\KIW (l~ussc:l..!l_:_ MR . J . MORGAN : 'l'h1.• hon. liH' MiniHI<.'I <>I '·'i:;ht•f i<''' · Mr . Speaker, T . J . Hardy Limited , of course , affiliated \.,rith the Nickerson group from Nova Scotia , They have been operating in Anchor Point and F'lov1er's Cove ano Cow Head. And the first information we received from the people, in f;,c·: the fishcrm<~n, WclS nn the f'1•id<ty p.~st , th.1r 2 :-' i~ tl

"'' June 8, 1982, Tape 1060, Page 1 -- apb MR. MORGAN: the indication from the company was they would not be operating. So they had not told us up until that time they were not going to operate these three facilities. So we were in contact with the company and the company is now in the process of making a proposal to both levels of government indicating what the problems are that e~~st in qtt three locations, Cow Head, Anchor Point and Flower's Cove.

As of today, just prior to coming to the House of Assembly, I checked with the staff of the department and the proposal has not been received by the Dcpu.rtmcnl of l•'ishcrics provincially, therefore, I am assuming there are none made as of today. But we will deal with the proposal as quickly as possible, depending on what Mr. Hardy is going to be saying in the proposal, and we will deal with that proposal as we dealt with, in fact, seventeen others from around the Province from fish companies having financial difficulties with regard to operating in certain areas of the Province. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER(Russell): The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MH. I<OI>ER'rS: A supplementary, Sir. I thank the minister. It would appear the action is both positive and prudent and timely. I assume from what the minister said that he expects to receive this proposal from the Hardy interests relatively soon. He mentioned it had not come in today . I would assume, and perhaps he could comment upon this if my assumption be not correct, I would assume that he expects it within the next couple of days Could the 22til

June 8, 1982, Tape 1060, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROBERTS : minister tell us whether he will consult by whatever mechanism he deems best with the people concerned? By that I mean the council in Anchor point, the town council in Flower's Cove -and the wcrkers in each plant, I believe, are represented by the Fishermen's bnion - whether the minister will consult with them and get their advice and their comme~ts with respect to the proposals. MR. SPEAKER(Russell): The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: --------- Mr. Speaker, it depends on wha L LhC! pr :oposu.J .is <;o.i ll<J lo lJL'.

I ('.lllllOL l'l)l\\1\\VIll on the proposal and what consultation is going to be required until we receive the proposal. In fact, looking at my desk in front of me I recall that we have now arranged for the reopening around the Provinc e of of a total of thirty-seven fish plants. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR.MORGi\N: Thirty-scvun fish pl~nt H are now reopened, this Summer, as a result of the Newfoundland Government's effort of working alone with the industry, the private sector, in some cases with fishermen's committees, in other cases with the local members in the House of Assembly, and local councils and organizations. We have reopened these thrity-seven fish plants around the Province, and we will do every- thing possible to reopen others that find themselves in financial difficulties. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR.

ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his information, whatever it was. As I

June 8, 1982, Tape 1060, Page 3 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: attempting to deal with llli!: !j'" iow :ly, I onl;; would <l!:k lh<1t Ill' tlid. 1 f lw wants to play games, I could point out that the thirty-seven fish plants he included in his statement included Flower's Cove an¢, of course, you know, that just shows what his statement is worth, 2 2 lJ I

June 8, 1982 Tape 1061 PK - 1 MR. ROBERTS: It is partisan piffle such as most of the minister's words are, but I am not interested in the piffle from the partisan,petulant minister, I am interested in the situation in Flower's Cove and Anchor Point.

So I ask him again whether he would be prepared- I am not asking him to talk to me · If he cannot bring himself to talk to the elected member that is his problem• not mine­ but I wonder if he would undertake to consult with the people most directly concerned 1 namely, the councils and the representatives of the workers in those two plnnls and the fishermen, the workers who sell their fish to the plants, again represented by the Fishermen's Union? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR . MORGAN : The hon. Minister of Fisheries . Mr.

Speaker, I am sure that the residents of Flower's Cove and the Sandy Cove area do not think it is a piffle that we have made available $200,000 for a loan guarantee to that fish plant in that community this Summer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN : I am sure that is no piffle in the minds of the people in that area , as the hon. gentleman refers to it n s. '!'he Fact i s we have a 1 r0;1cly m,lch' <Jss is t· ;mcc~ available to that com?any called Hhi te 's Fisheries Limited of Flower's Cove, to the amount of $200,000. And, Mr.Speaker, we will deal with other proposals when we r~ceive them.

The hon. gentleman is usually absent from t~e House of Assembi~, iike i~st week when i sat here discussing probl~Iit·s ori fisheries. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) by the federal qovornmont. MR. MORGAN: For example, 'flednesday, Thursday, and Firday he was not here , he was not here yesterday, and now he is suddenly concerned again with a fish plan .t in his district, one fish plant. I am today concerned with Bclleoram, a delegation in from Belleoram. I have to be concerned with 2 2 0 ,,

,II IIW I) , 1902 'l'<lpC 1061 PK - 2 MR. MORCl\N : a delegation in from Whale's Gulch now I think in the visiting area of the Bouse of 1\ssembly . I am also meeting with seven majors this evening rrom Conccpt . .i.on R<:~y , all about fis heries and fis heries problems . Mr . Speaker , there is hardly a day passes but I am working from nine o'clo ck in the morning until ten or eleven o'clock in the evening on fishery problems,and they are all over the Province . We do no t make chalk of one and cheese of anot her. SmiE HON . MEl'JBERS : Hear, hear ! t-11L 'I'IH,K : That is the nroblem . You ar~ there . MR.

ROI3f.RTS : A supplementary , Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : A final suppleme nt ary , the han. member for the Strait of Belle Isle. r-IR . ROBERTS : A supplementary . Mr . Sp eake r, i£ it were not for the gree n carpet my heart woul d bleed for the minister . :\1R . MORGAN : MR . ROI3F.RTS : Mr . Speaker , I will not get into - Do not be foolish , boy . - the minister not knowing the difference between Flower 's Cove- •'1R. MORGl\ N: The hon. abs ent member. -··--- -- MH . NE/\RY : The yodelling cowboy. NH . ROBERTS : - between £lower 's Cove - SOME HON . MEMBERS : Oh , oh ! MR .

SPEAKER : Order, please ! MR. ROI3ERTS : - and Sandy Cove . You know, that speaks for it self . But I again say to him , if he wants to talk about my attendance recor d in the House 1 let us talk about our benefit to the Province - MR . NEARY : Right on. 2 ? . L; ·-b.

June 8, 1982 Tape 1061 PK - 3 MR . ROBERTS : - and the benefit I provide for the Frovince for the dollars I am paid compared to the benefit he provides to the Province for the dollars he is paid, and then we take it out . SOl.ffi HON. MEMBERS : Hear , hear ! SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh ! MR . ROBERTS : Then we will take it out, Sir . The hon . gentleman - SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear , hear ! MR. ROBERTS : - the hon . gentleman who has - SOME BON . ~1EMBERS : Cable vision (inaudible) . MR . SPEKER (Russell): Order, pl ease! MR . ROBt::R'rS : - th e hon . ~enlh~lllc\ll '~ho hm ; thr icc struck out . MR.

TULl< : He has cable vision too . I'IR . SPEAKER : Order, please! 'l'im e is the Question Period, and I suggest that the hon . member for the Strait of Belle Isle get on with his question . MR . ROBERTS: thank Your llonou r. I am 'I l<~d that Your Honour is going to admonish me when I step from the line and I hope Your Honour, 2 ? . " ~Uil

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1062 NM - 1 MR. ROBERTS: and I am sure Your Honour, will cquully admonish gentlemen opposite when they stray across the line as well, because that is the way it ought to be. Now let me again for the third time -the hon. minister is familiar with threes 'he struck out three times- ~~t m~ again ask him for the third time whether he is prepared to cpnsult with the people - MR. SIMMS: (Inaudible) . MR. ROBERTS: Well,now the hon. former Speaker speaks. MR. SIMMS: I am not talking to you, Sir . MR. ROBERTS : I know he is not speaking to roo and 1 am not listeninq to him. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell) Order, please! Order, please! MR. ROBERTS: But he is - MR. YOUNG: Lay the blame on the Speaker. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, hon. gentlemen opposite have got to realize that they MR. TULK: They are d>oing the same thing now as you. MR. SPRAKER: Order, please! MR. ROBERTS : - have got to realize they are be like potholes on the road, Sir. I say to my friend from Grand Falls (Hr.Simms) he can be like a pothole; he is a damned nuisance but he can qet in the way when I am tryinq to ask a question. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MIL 1~0 111 ·:1~'1'1;: • • Now, Mr.

Spcclker., let me come again back to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) for the third time of asking this day- and I am asking a perfectly straightforward question and I have not had anything other than sauce, sarcasn, and the lack of an answer- is he prepared to consult with the people of Flowers Cove, not Sandy Cove but Flowers Cove and the people of Anchor Point with rcsp('ct to whatever proposal-and I do not know what 2Zb7

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1062 NM - 2 MR. ROBERTS: it may be- whatever proposal he may get from the Hardy interests with respect to the plants in those two communities? That is all I am asking; a yes or no would do. MR. NEARY: Now let us hear it from the yodcll in<J cowboy. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The bon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, the bon. gentleman, after me driving into the House of Assembly-was it last Friday morning?- and the open-line show wa·s trying to find the bon. gentleman from the st.

Anthony area, and his secretary told the open-line programme he was too busy in his law practice down on Duckworth Street Lo L"OIIIC Lo LllL~ phone. SOME HON. MEMBERS: What? MR. MORGAN: That was carried on an electronic media Friday morning. The bon. gentleman comes in the House of Assembly and pretends he is so concerned with the problems in his district, ~e. spends ten minutes a day askinq maybe one or two questions during question period and then back to his law office again. The fact,as I said earlier, Mr.

Speaker, is this, the fact is that we will consult with everybody possible, the residents of the communities, in Cow Head in particular, and the MHA for the area in particular, for the Cow Head area, and all concerned. ~e will leave no stone unturned to resolve the problems of the fishing industry in Newfoundland, no stone unturned. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member for Port au Port . MR. NEARY: You are too busy with Cancom, boy. MR. HODDER: Well a new question, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan), if the minisler could get down off the political plane, because I have a question to ask 2 2 0 .~

-1 ,June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1062 NM - 3 MR. HODDER: him about a couple of communities as well. I think I have already mentioned it to the minister but T.J. Hardy had a plant in the Fox Island River - Point au Mal area of 2? LJ •I

June 8, 1982 Tape 1063 EC - l MH. IIODDEH : my district. They pulled out early in the season or they did not move in this year. And Belle Isle Seafoods were then collecting fish there and using the facility that was there. My ~ucstion to the mini~Lor is: At the moment the trap fishery is startinq and these fishermen have no place to land their fish. Has the minister any solution to the problem or has he spoken to his officials about it and does he have something to relay about this problem? MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, I thank the hon. gentleman for asking the question and I will say that this gentleman is very sincere about the problems in his district. He is very sincere as a member about the problems of his district. lie docs not play politics. He came to me yesterday afternoon and asked me about the problem over in Fox Island River and he is asking me again today in the House, because I did not give him the information because this morning I was before the Estimate Committee with the estimates of the Department of Fisheries. He is very genuinely concerned.

He does not play politics like the member who asked earlier questions about the Flower's Cove area. The gentleman is very concerned. MR. ROBERTS: (Inaudible). MR. MORGAN: '.J.·ll<o! sil:ua "cion in Fox Island River, Mr. Speaker, if the hon.pimple from down around St. Anthony can keep quiet - l1R. POWER: l~ o t from St. 7\nthony, n ~pr·,~s,~nti11•i :;t. \nli1•'ll\ MR. NEARY: Give us a little yodle, 'Jim'. MR. MORGAN: - if the hon . the member for Duckworth Street can keep quiet . 22/il

June 8, 1982 Tape 1063 EC - 2 SOME !!ON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, th12 member asked a question and I answer12d it very sincer0lv. Fox Island River - Roger Pike was operating and buying fish in there and, as of the last couple of days, they indicated they are going to stop buying fish.

So we enquired of the company as to why t~e:y had stopiJ.ed buying fis~ and the reason they gave us was because of the f?ct that the fishermen were catching a small grade fish, In fact they gave us informatir"1 that eight to twelve inches was the size of the fish; it was not to the satisfaction of the buyer and he quit buying. So, Mr. Speaker, we arranged for our information desk or distribution desk to contact all other buyers in the area to inform them that Mr. Pike was not buying fish from the fishermen, to make sure the fishern1L'Il had a market for their outlet and to arrange to have other buyers move in.

The i'nformation today apparently, from Mr. Pike, is he will go back into the area to buy fish as soon as the quality of that product improves; however, we are not convinced of what he is sayinq, that all the fish is that small size, and the reasons he is qivina for nnt nninn in and buvinq fish. MR. ROBERTS: Be careful or he might sue you for defamation. MR. HODDER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell ): A supplementary, the hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: I just want to point out to the rhnister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) , re Mr.

Pike, who suys the fish are too smalJ, that the fishermen of Fox Island River catch from the same stock of fish as the fishermen of Piccadilly, who sell their fish to National Sea. National Sea certainly do not find the size of the fish too small. It is a very strange situation if Mr. Pike finds that the fish are too small. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Fisheries. 2 2/ I

June 8, 1982 · Tape 1063 EC - 3 MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I will take it under advisement and pursue the matter further this afternoon. I have asked the officials to contact ~1r. Pike again to ask him to reconsider going back and keep on buying fish, and I will keep the hon. gentleman informed accordingly. MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. 2 '} -. 1 ..:.. / /

_!. June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1064 SD - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. W/\RREN: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Andrews). I understand that in Happy Valley- Goose Bay there is some concern about a sewerage treatment plant presumably to be installed on the new system that is suppose to be going in. Could the minister advise whether there will be a sewerage treatment plant attached to the new system that has been installed in Happy Valley - Goose Bay? MIL Sl' E/\KEH.: The hon. Minister of the Environment. MR. ANDREWS: Mr.

Speaker, this debate goes back some considerable time to last Summer when it was proposed to put in a new sewerage system in Happy Valley - Goose Bay. We were asked if there was a need for a sewerage treatment I' I dill. Wt• .1dv i ~;L'd Llw conu11un i Ly counc L L tl~<tt as a Department of the Environment there was no need, we saw no need. There was some concern expressed by a concerned citizens' committee in the area, I met with that committee and with council last Fall.

As a result of that meeting we did agree to do further testing of the water this Summer, as soon as the ice broke out; as a matter of fact this week some people wi I I be leaving St. John's to go to Goose Bay to further check the water. MR. WARREN: Suppiementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. W/\RREN: I wou]o like to ask the minister has the ·:~ been an environmental impact study done on the whole aspect of whether or not a sewerage treatment plant should be attached to this system?

Has there been an environmental assessment study done or is there just samples being done from period to period? MR. SPEl\KER: The bon. Minister of the Environment. 2 ,2";

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1064 so - 2 MR. ANDREWS: No, Mr. Speaker. I think you are referring to an environmental assessment statement :. That has not been done. MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Supplementary, the hon. member I understand, Mr. Speaker, that the town council of Happy Valley - Goose Bay have recently announced that they are going ahead with the construction of this sewerage disposal into the llamiJton River.

Is the minister telling me that the town council has the approval to go ahead with this and there has been no environmental impact study done? MR. SPEAKER: MR. ANDREWS: MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER: member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: The hon. Minister of the Environment . Yes, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Final supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, the minister ls telling me yes and then he is telling me no. Now which is true? He told me there is no environmental statement done and he is telling me,yes,the town council is going ahead with the construction without an environmental impact study.

Could the minister advise if that is against

an act to protect the environment of the Province, is that against this act that was instituted in this House in 1980 thatneither a town council nor any group can qo ahead unless first there is an environmental impact study done? ')? i ,,

_,_ June 8,1982 Tape No. 1065 ah-1 MR.SPEhKER (Russell): The bon. Minister of the Environment. MR.ANDREWS: Mr. Speaker, it is quite obvious thctt the han. gentleman for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren} is uninformed, grossly uninformed about the Environmental Assessment Act and how it works. There is provision for an environmental assessment statement, a preview report, or none of those things if it is not deemed necessary. In this case it was not deemed necessary.

Also in this case it was deemed permissible and quite reasonable and not to be a factor that would pollute the Churchill River if that sewerage diversion took place. As a matter of fact it would generally improve the environment of the Happy Valley­ Goose Bay area by taking that sewerage out of Harrington lld s i 11 <Ill <I puttinq it into the Churchill River. lt.R. \vARREN: MR.SPEAKER: A supplementary Mr. Speaker. A supplementary. The bon. member for Torngat Jiountains. MR.WARREN: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a final supplementary to the Minister of Rural hgricultural and Northern Development (Mr.

Goudie) whn cturinq the election campaiqn used as one his top Lh1·ec p1~iorities that 11 sewerage treutment plant would be installed on this system. Is the Minister of Rural Agricultural and Northern Development (Mr.Goudie) sutisfied that no sewerage treatment plant going to be connected to this system? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Rural Agricultural and Northern Development. MR.GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I first of all hu vc been involved in this particular issue from the duy that my colleague,the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Andrews) ,referred to,when the first samplings 2 2 1· ~~

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1065 ah-2 MR.GOUDIE: were done. As a matter of fact, usually the affairs of the Naskaupi district I take care of and take care of very well. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. GOUDIE: Secondly, durinq a recent campaign I made ~he statement that a sewerage treatment plant must go into that system in the Happy Valley- Goose Bay area and in lin~ with that my colleague, the Minister of the Environment (Mr.Andrews), has agreed to do environmental sampling, studies of the river bottom , etc., this Spring after the Spring run-off occurs.

Obviously it is very impractical to do that now with the Spring run-off just occuriny. The icc has only gone off the river four or five days ago. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.GOUDIE: Just hang on now. Just hang on. As I said I will handle the affairs of the Naskaupi district. And the other point bP.ing that samples will be taken until it is absolutely determined that there are no environmental concerns.But there are environmental concerns right now and that is why we are going ahead with this second study.and the affairs will be handled properly when the occasion demands. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

RR.NEAR.Y: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The bon. Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, apparently the member for Naskaupi (Mr.Goudie) is being overruled by his colleague 1 the minister responsible for the environment. Well let me ask the Minister of the Environment (Mr.l\ndr\'ws) this question. I presume that the reason he is lettin g the sewerage go straight into the Churchill River is that he thinks or he hopes that it is going into the main 22iR

June 8,1982 Tape No. 1065 'ah-3 MR.NEJ\RY: stream. Well now let me ask the qcntleman if it is indeed going into the main ~;I 1 t'oilll ,1!1<1 wiJ I UL! cc~LTlL!d etw<~y t}uickly, or i~; iL tJOill<J into some other part of the river? MR. WARREN: He does not know. MR. SPEJ\KER (Russell): the hon. Minister of Environment. 2 2 1· 7

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1066 MJ -l MR. G. WARREN: lie does not knOiv. MR. H • ANDREWS : Mr. Speaker, these were some o E the concerns that 1-1ere expressed by the concerned citi~ens' committee, of Happy Valley-Goose Bay, I·Jhen 1ve met there last Fall. No, as my understandiny is, lookin<;J at the en4inecrinq <lr.awj nqs, it ticK·~ not yo directly into the main str.~;i.llll of tile Chun;hi II IUvt•l. H11l, the Churchill River is an immense river. The dilution factor, if I recall,is something like 200,000 to l, I believe ll1<.1t ml,rhL be a figure I lvill check the numbers on it. AN HON. MEMBER: 20,000 to 1. M.R.

ANDREWS: I am s.orry 20, 000 to 1. t-lhere a sa.fe factor by Canadian/ U. S./ Western ruropeon standards is a r<.1tio mix of ri.lw sc~Wd'lt' to water is 200 to J, tn this case it will be 20,000 to 1. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Time for the Question Pe t"iod has expired. }'l!t??_?~'T'Jtl0 R81'0RTS BY S'l'J\.NDTNG l\NO SPF.CTJ\J, COM~II'l'Tr.J·:S MIL II. VOliN(:: M1. ::l"'.tk•·•. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister or Puhl i.e: \'lorks. MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I IIIOUld like to present for the first t.ime, Mr. Speaker - M.R. L. SIM1'1S: What? A first? MR. YOUNG: f'or the first time since Confeclot·ut ion.

MR • S IMJ'4S : After ten years. HR. YOUNG: -S:ince Confederation, l\1r. SfJC.!lk~r, for the first time the annual report of the DePartment of Public Works and Services. SOME HON. MEMBERS: !lear , hear! MR. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, I am sure this r~n nnlr happen under the leadership of ou.r present l'n.•m1c.:t. 2 'l -. I !. I {

..._ ,111111' s, lc.lll 2 'l'np;• No . 1 066 MJ - 2 SOME !ION. MEMBERS: And the minister . MR . li : YOUNG : And probably,yes,I should have a little bit of ego . But under the present minister , Mr . Speaker. SOMl~ liON . MEMBERS : Hear , hear ! MIL YOUNG : Mr . Speaker , this report covers the period from April 1, 1980 to March 31, 1981. Mr . Speaker, it contains a l·lealth of information . It also answers some of the questions they 1·1ere asking about Information services . Mr.

Speaker , it tells us about the Government purchasinq Agency whLd1 did $65 millio n last ycar,and the main object , Sir, is that it shnws every tender that 1o1as called and a1.,arded . Nothing tlllch•rh ,l!H il!l l• I .till S\ 111..) Lh 0 hon. Lltl! III C..'ln lJL 'I" ICll " l.i!l'oilc (MI ~. S . Ncnry) will ap~rcciate this . I do wish 2 " - ~ , ~ I -0

June 8, 1982 Tape 1067 PK - 1 MR . YOUNG : to thank my officials for preparing this. And if there is any more in formation you .,.,an t and it is not in this book, ask me and I will phone the open line programme . SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! NOTICE OF MOTIONS MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . Minister of Pinance . DR . COLLINS : Mr . Speaker, T qiv~ noticr th~l will on tomorrow move that this House resolve itself into n Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions rclQtin q to raising of loans by the Province . ORDERS OF THE DAY MR .

SPEAKER: Before goinq into Commjttec of Supply,! wo uld like to welcome a delegation from the Belleoram­ Red Cove area of the South Coast in the district of Fortune­ Hermitage . I welcome you to the galleries today . SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! On motion that the House L·csolve ilsclr inLo Comm.iLLcc ol Lhc 1-lhole, Mr . Spc.Jkcr - lei L the Clr.1ir . ~1R . CHA .IRMAN· (Aylward) : MR . NEARY : MR . CUI\ I RMl\N : MR . NEARY : COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Order , please! Shall 302-01 carry? Mr . Chairman . The hon . Leader of the Opposition . I notice the han.

Premier is not in his seat while we are debating the estimates of his office . I understand that the House Leader (~1r . r.tarshall) will carry the ball for the hon . gent lem an, and that probably is n 900tl 2 ~:Ill

June 8, 1982 Tape 1067 PK - 2 MR. N~l\R'i: thing because maybe we can approach this subject in a non-emotional •Nay, that we will be able to qet some answers to questions . And what we intend to do on this side of the House, Mr. Chairman, is to put some hard questions to the hon. gentleman and we would expect to get answers . After all, this is taxpayer money . Now, Mr . Chairman, let me start out by as~ing tne non . gentieman a simPle ques~ion in connection . with the Legislative Disabities Act . Mr .

Chairman , my understanding and my interpretatio n of the Act is this , that when a person is elected to this House he is given a sessional indemnity, or in the case of a minister he is paid a salary, and there are travelling expenses allocated by this House to ministers and to members of the House of Assembly . 2 2 b.,

June 8, 1982, Tape 1068, Page 1 -- apb MR. NEARY: And in order for a minister especially, or any ordinary member of the !louse, in order for any member to receive additional perks, to receive, for instance, a rent-free house, it has to be approved by this Legislature. I would say, Mr. Chairman, based on my

interpretation of the Act, and the hon. gentleman, no doubt, will interpret it differently, that the administration is in violation of the act, that the Executive Council cannot approve benefits for ministers. Only this House can do that, Mr. Chairman. Only this House can determine whether or not the Premier or a minister or anybody else gets fringe benefits like a rent-free house. It is only this House thdt can decide that, and not be done by the Executive Council, by issuing an Order in Council. So that is my first questions to the - MR. MATTHEWS: How did Joey get Roaches Line? MH. NIQ\IlY: Wcl.l, Mr·.

Clhti nll<~ll, lit<• hon. gentleman with the red beard over there wants to know how Joey got his. Well, Mr. Chairman, let me - AN HON. MEMBER: Tell us about that. MR. NEARY: Yes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, the house that the hon. gentleman refers to was a house that was built privately, is a house that belongs to the people of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh? MR. TULI<: That is right. MR. NEARY: The house was built by Mr. Smallwood and given to the people u£ this l'ruv.incc as a gift, for one dollar. Is the hon. gentleman aware 2 2 iJ .:.·

~- June 8, 1982 , Tape 1068 , Page 2 -- apb ~lR . NI::ARY: of that? -------· SOME HON. MEMBERS: No \vay! 1\'JlL NEARY : That is right . smm BON. MEMBERS: No ~vay. tJ~~EAR.Y : That is correct . SOME HQN . MEMBERS: Oh , oh ! MR. CHAIRMAN(Avlward): Order, please ! Order, please! MR. NEARY : The hon . gentleman may have learned now for the first time that the house on Roaches Line belongs to the people of thi~ Province . It was given to the Newfoundland people as a gift by Mr . Smallwood, for one dollar, one .dollar - SOMI·: liON . MI·:Mili·:H:;: Hear , hear ! -----. --- SOME HON • MEMBERS: Oh, oh ! MR .

NEARY : - and not the reverse, not the reverse . Mr . Chairman , \.,hen Mr . Srnullwocxl was Premier of this Province he built hj_s otvn house . He Otvned his own home up until such time as he turned it over to the people for one dollar. MR. MATTHE\-1S: Where did he get the materials ? MR . NEARY : Mr . Chairman, the hon . ----- gentleman, new and shin y-nosed 2 2 jj .;

June 8, 1982 Tape 1069 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: gentleman should go down to the Registry Office, if he knows where the Registry Office is, if he knows how to search, or if he does not he can get one of his colleagues to do it, go down to the Registry Office and search and the hon. gentleman will get the history and the hon. gent­ leman will see that there was a mortgage on that house. So, Mr. Chairman, let us just dismiss that forthrjqht and charqa it up, we will just mark it up as being complete and utter ignorance on the part of the hon. gentleman. MR. WARREN: MR NEARY: He do~s not know the difference. Mr.

Chairman, the hon. gentleman obviously is so engrossed and steeped in iqnorance of this matter that he has not the foggiest notion of what he is talkinq c~b,lul. That is just the reverse of what we are talking about here. You had a former Premier who yavc the people a gift, gave the people a gift, Mr. Chairman. MR. YOUNG: Ashley bought that house for him. MR. TOBIN: (Inaudible) tell us the story about that house. MR.

NEARY: Yes, well, his story is probably the same as the ones I read in the letters today that completely discounted any statement he made yesterday about what the Opposition asked for in the way of renovations in our office. MH. YOUNG: and more besides. SOME HON. MEMBERS: You asked for ('V('l-ytilinq l !;.tid Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, I am not going to be sidetracked. I am putting a question to the hon. qentlcman about the Legislative Disabilities Act. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! !':!~· __ CTIAI~~--(AJ_:._V:"':'ar~); Order, please! 2 2 d ,,

:June 8, 1982 Tape 1069 EC - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, if you could keep the scum of the earth quiet for a few moments, I would carry on with the hon. gentleman. Mr. Chairman, the Legislative Disabilities Act, in my opinion, has been completely ignored and violated in the case of the Premier getting 2~d~

,June 8 , l 9 8 2 'l'upe No. 1070 Sll - 1 MR. NEARY: this house rent free. I do not think, in my opinion, Mr. Chairman, my

interpretation of the act, the Executive Council cannot do these things. They cannot give themselves benefits over and above those that are passed, approved here in the Legislature. They cannot do it. Mr. Chairman, if they can do it in the case of a house, they can all go down and decide tomorrow to give themselves motor cars or to give themselves a cottage up by a river somewhere, could they not? That is why we have a Legislative Disabilities Act. And it is a violation of that act, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the hon. <JcnUcman if he has t"CCl'iVL'd an opinion from the ~linister of Justice (Mr.

Ottenheimcr), the Attorney General, on this matter? It is wrong, Mr. Chairman, it is wrong and it just cannot be done. There has to be some control placed on the Executive Council as far as benefits for ministers and members of the House are concerned,and the control is the Legislative Disabilities Act. Now if the administration had come into the House and asked that the Mount Scio House be exempt from the act, that the Premier be given this house over and above his salary,well that would have been alright, Mr. Chairman, if the House so agreed or amended the act. Mr.

Chairman, in order to get a parliamentary secretary the qovcrnmcnt cannot even do that without the approval of this House, that is why they are bringing in that act. And they cannot give themselves benefits, Mr. Chairman, they cannot give themselves benefits without changing the act. And so I claim that the Legislative Disabilities Act in this case has been violated. MR. MARSHALL : MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman. The hon. President of the Council. I will respond to that. The speech that the hon. gentleman there opposite gave is an 22dfl

c. ,lunc 8, 1982 Tape No. 1070 so - 2 MR . MARSHALL: indication of why fewer and fewer people in Newfoundland over the years, everytime be opens his mouth ,.:1rc taking him seriously, because, Mr . Chairman, the Legislative Disabilities Act has nothing to do with the situation itself . The Legislative Disabilities Act relates to offices that people may hold and receive renumeration Lor Lhcir oCficcs while they arc a member oC the House of Assembly and there are numbers - I do not remember them all - but there are numbers of exceptions to it As to the exceptions , you are 22iJ7

June 8, 1982 Tape 1071 NM - 1 MR. MARSHALL: not allowed to have two positions, you understand, Mr. Chairman; you are not allowed to have two positions while you are a member of the House. But it does not relate to the - actually I should not even be reading it because it is feally treating - you know, I am quite prepared to answer questions legitimately asked, Mr. Chairman, but it is really treating the - even though it is the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary) it is treating his questions with much more seriousness than really they warrant.

As I say,it applies to the holding of an office, a place or an appointment of profit or emolument. So it is a ~ettinq an emolument for an office, of an office, you see, a separate office from the position in this House of Assembly. HR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: That is your

interpretation. I will put my

interpretation up against the bon. gentlemaru all the time . Everyone knows who twists the most and I think they take it as the hon. qentleman. Now the fact of the matter is, Mr. Chairman,with respect to this so-called house, this house sat up there, it was a house that was originally there occupied by Lord Taylor while he was President of Memorial University. The bon. the Premier, as everyone knows, has a house in South Brook and I daresay that the bon. Premier, if he had his drutcherswould rather live in his house at South Brook at any given day.

But it is a little bit hard, he has not got the properties of the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Neary), and it is impossible for him to go home nightly to South Brook. There is nothing contrary to the Legislative Disabilities Act. I suppose the member stayed up all night and spent alJ day, 2 2 u r!

June 8 1 1982 Tape 1071 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL : Mr . Chairman, thinking of somethi ng to say and he has found his great thing and he brinqs it up before the Bouse. 1 say again the Legislative Disabiliti ·es Act relates to the holdings of offices from the government , of hol ding duplicate office s, ~nd receiving payment for holding duplicate office. It has nothing to do wit~ that at all. I think that answers the question for the hon. gentleman . I know the hon. gentleman "'ill be uetting up again and I say he is on a very sticky wicket when he is on this .

I mean,the fact of the matter is that every ­ th ing that this go ve rnmen t is doing, he says 1 'Why should they be able to do it? Why should the government be able to do it?' The fact of the matter is that everything which this government hn!'l done 1 every sinqlc soli t.:~ry d.ollar 1 every dime 1 every nickel, every cent is open for scrutiny. Every piece of publi c property that is in use is open for 2: u 'I

June 8, 1982 Tape 1072 EC -1 MR . MARSHALL: public scrutiny. We have seen an example of that today in the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Younq) when he tabled his report indicutin<.J where the monjes of this Province go. 1'/e are not in this government L.ryimJ to decide' anything. And because,"1r. Chairman, we are not tryin'J to hide anything, the hon. gentlemen there opposite spend all their time trying to make things seem seedy and seamy and what have you. But, as I say, they are operating on a sticky wicket now.

The situation is, as has been portrayed and as everybody in the Provinco is aware, anyone who is interested in the Province, that is, as the House of Assembly is aware, as the Committee is aware, everybody knows what we are doing. I suggest to the hon. gentlemen there are estimates to go through and there are other areas where he could perhaps best elicit more relevant information. MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward): Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. The hon. the Leader of the I knew I v10uld get that kind of an answer from the hon. gentleman, Mr. Chairman.

Now, would the hon. gentleman tell us the titles of the staff in Mount Scio House? Would the hon. gentleman give us the numbers? - I presume he has the book in front of him with all the information in it -the numbers of the staff and their titlCSL MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL : Under this heading where we are, 302-01, there is no vote with respect to the provision of the staff at Mount Scio House,and I do not 2 2 .:;r1

June 8, 1982 Tape 1072 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL: believe that any staff that may be up in Mount Scio House, you know, would be covered under this particular vote itself. What we arc talking about now, Mr. Chairman, is the Office ol the l'rcmic' !JLinscll and Lhc cXJ?cndituL·cs rrorn that office,which is subhead 302-01 and totals $100,200. So my answer to the hon. gentleman is there is no money here expended for the staff of Mount Scio House. MR. NEARY: MR. C1Il\IR!'11\N (Aylward): Opposition. t1R. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. The hon. the Leader of the Well, Mr.

Chairman, the hon. gentleman obviously does not have the information in front of him. The Premier had a book there yesterday with all that information and he was prepared to give us the answers. Will the hon. gentleman tell us about lh<' priv,-ll<' dininq rnnm which is iltt;whcd to tlw Premier's Office? Would the hon. gentleman tell us the number of staff employed in the private dining room and the salaries of the staff attached to the private dining room? MR. CHAIRMAN: the Council. MR. MARSHALL: The hon. the President of Mr.

Chairman, first of all, with respect to the private dining room, I want to inform the House that this is not the private dining room as it is being billed by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. It is not the private dining room of the Premier as such. It is the private dining room 1-L~.JI\y, M1·. Chc1irm ;1n, o[ the lJOVcr-nmcnt of this Provine~. When you hear the hon. gentleman there opposite, you would swear that the hon. the Premier was feeding his family in there daily, 22b l

June 8, 1982, Tape 1073, Page l --apb MR. MARSHALL: and he was feeding his parents in there and his cousins and his second cousins and his third cousins and all the people from South Brook, and all the people from Green Bay and anybody that comes in as his own personal fifedo~ and his own personal domain. That particular dining room is put to very good use, Mr. Chairman, by the Premier and, on other occasions, by other ministers for the purpose of conducting the business of the Province.

And I would emphasise that the money that is expended in thill <linin() room, iL if W<~re nul expended in the dining room would be expended else­ where, out in restaurants and what have you, because this is the way of conducting business. So, first of all, I want to set aside the indication and the appearance that those who like to attempt to cast slurs and appear to make the government seamy, th;1L this is nol the private dining room or the fifedo~ of the Premier of this Province or anyone else, it is a governmnet dining room and it is used for that purpose.

If the hon. gentleman wishes, I can tell him -here, again, this is not covered under the Premier's Office, we are on 302-0l, so it is really not relevant to this particular subhead - but I can advise the House that under 303-01, when we come down to administration, under the title Administration, there is a provision there for the chef at the dining room who receives the sum of $22,536 a year, which is on an accepted scale. And I might state to the hon. gentleman that the chef is an expert chef. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 228)

June 8, 1982, Tape l073, Page 2 -- apb MR . MARSHALL: The meals are marvellous. The hon. gentleman has not partaken from them for many a year ,and it will be many, many year s again before he wlll . !(he ever gets there he will be taken there in a wheelchair, because he 111ill never get the opportunity to get on this side of the House . So, Mr . Chairman, that is the salary of the Chef. Then there would be expenditures as well for meals and what have you, and that is revealed in the estimates .

T am not sure if that is under the Department of Public Works , or somewhere, but I can tell you that it is an economical proposition, ~tr . Chairman, a very, very economical proposition , very well used, and used for the benefit of the people of this Province. ~In. C.:[\ LI.!>N .: Not so. Not so . MR . NC:J\HY : Mr . Chairman . ------MR . CNl\IRMAN (A:[lward) : The hon . the Leader of the Opposition . MR . NEARY : Now , Nr . Chairman, how wonderful ! No wonder the heads of the denominations are concerned about the way negotiations are going between this Province and the Government of Canada .

Is it any 1vonder , when we get that kind of an attitude , that kind of arrogance from the hon . gentleman· . Mr . Chairman , would the hon. gentleman tell us who eats in the private dining room? Is it used every day? Does the Premier eat his mc<.1ts th ere every d<:~y? \o/h<:~t ministers eat in the private dining room down on the main floor? Would the hon . gentleman tell us who has it under their control? 2 2 s '·i

June 8, 198Q •rape 1074 I'K - 1 MR, NE~RY: Does it come under the control of the Premier? If a minister wants to go in the~e and eat,who does he have to get permission from? And· whose picture does he have to kiss before he is allowed to go in there? MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : the Council. The hon. President ·or MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman, the reason why the bon. gentleman is asking these questions,the poor fellow, is that when he was a member of another administration and the dininq room Wi1S First put there by his bo~>~; ;1t tlw time, the bon. gentleman never got in over the doorstep.

And now he is asking, it is sort of pathetic MR. BARRETT; it now either. He is not going to make MR. MARSHALL: -after ten, twelve, fourteen or fifteen years,he is now trying to find out what it is like. I can say that when the hon. gentleman was there there was a great big -when the boss of the hon. gentleman there was a g::::eat big chandelier filling up this little room. It must have been there at enormous cost, completely enormous cost. I do not know what it was there for. So when the change of government-and I hate to throw darts into the heart of the bon. member -but when the chanqc o I government carne, Mr.

Chairman, lo and behold,you know what happened? The previous Premier, Mr. Moores,went into the dining room and the chandelier was gone. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSHALL: SOME HON. MEMBERS: !¥1R. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: 2 2 ~~ (, Oh, oh! There was nothing there. T~at was not true. So it was - That was a private qift.

June 8, 1982 Tape 1074 PK - 2 MR. M7\RSII7\LL: - very pathetic really because of the fact that I think that the hon. gentleman there opposite and their former leader thought t~e lights had gone out- and the lights had gone out for them. This is the real indication. Since then, Mr.Chairman, there was another light there. There is a light there,the hon. Leader should know, there is a light in the private dining room,and it turns on and it works and it is operating,not nearly as opulent as the previous one, but it does its part.

Now the hon. gentleman never got in there so I can say there is a table there and there are chairs to sit on, there is a kitchen off to the side. Mf{. NP.l\RY: Who nre the peopln who go in there, J wonder~ ~11L M/\1 (!;11/\1.1.: Who arc the people who usc it'? I will just repeat again , Mr. Speaker, that it is used .. And how is it used? It is used when it is necessary to use it for the purpose of government business, purely for government business. I repeat 1 the Premier does not take his relatives in. lie does not take his cronies in. He does not take his friends in. He does not take his constituents in.

The ministers do not take the Presidents of District Associations in to have meetings. They do not take their families in. They do not take their children in. They do not tak~ their grandparents, they do not take their cousins, they do not take their second cousins. But, Mr.

Chairman, what they do do if that they do <1<' in, they usc the dining room for government business, just in accordance with the way that they would have to do it if you did not have a dining room, you would have to be paying money to Starboard Quarter, Act III, maybe even Sir Humphrey's Pub for all I know, and all of these assorted places and the net cost that this Committee would be asked to vote for these purposes would considerably be enhanced. 2 2 ~i L,

June 8, 1982 MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : Opposition. MR. NEARY: Tape 1074 PK - 3 The hon. Leader of the Mr. Chairman, hereto fore J believe the hon. Premier used to eat 2 2 :-if;

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1075 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: in the cafeteria downstairs, and now I guess he does not want to slum any more so he now uses the private dining room. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, can the han. gentleman l'Xf>i.ti_n the ~nswcr that he just qavc? llere we have in the Public Accounts; Official Entertainment by Premier, $6,453. That has nothing to do with the private dining room. That is the kind of entertainment the han. gentleman just referred to, Starboard Quarter, etceteria, etceteria. So the han. the Premier has it coming and going.

He has his private dining room and he has, according to the Public Accounts,$6,500 to spend besides illoil. II<>W t"olll lilt~ i1011. 'll'llLiL'IIIolll n•conci le Lill'SC LW<l lhj_nqs·:' i\N liON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! !1R. \' • t·~ 1\ ~SHALL : Can you not sit down? Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) The han. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman, there are other areas of this Province besides St. John's.! sometimes think because I represent St. John's there is only St. John's, when my colleagues arc reminding me all the time there are other areas.

There is Corner Brook and there is Grand Falls and there is Labrador and there arc other places. SClMI' liON. MRMBERS: Oh, oh! MH. MARSHALL: There is also the fact that the Premier in his office from time to time has to entertain,because of various circumstance~,outside. The private dining room is not big enough to hold the people, you know, the vistors to this Province to which he has to accord the hospitality of the people of this Province. And the han. gentleman mentioned 2 2 ~i 7

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1075 t•1J - 2 MR. lv • MARSHALL: Look,he is jumping into the Public Accounts. Looy,~e is almost like-I should not say it - it is almost like the open sc1ver that vre '"ere talkinq about a little while ago, that he is jumpinq «t these t.hinqs tryincr to fin<.J ~<>lnctltintf >t:d•lly. 'l'hl.:r'C is nolh inq :;~~.~my ;tbcllll i I, ~11·. Chairman. They are l~gitimate expel'1ditures. 'l'hcy nn· oxpc~ntli t·un .. ·s for the purpose of the Premier entertaining visitinq I?copl<' on behalf o~ the government of this Province and that is the an~wer to the question. MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. .M.R.

CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. SOME IJON. Ml:":~-EHS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: The hon. gentleman is not givinq the committee very much information. If the hon. gentleman looked at the Pub!ic Accounts - SOME BON • MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEJ\RY: 1\nd T wish the hon. iqnur.1ntlnH·:-; '~ould just restra.:.n themselves, Me Ch;:lirman. We arc t1·yinq 1·n do a job here for the tax_)ayers of t:1is Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HR. NEARY: The taxpayers who are hard 9resscd, Mr. Chairman. SOME HO'N . l1EMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: 1"1r.

Chairman, the hon. 9entleman is a1-1are, who is :;>.:.loting the estimates, that business luncheons are already listed in the Public Accounts - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 2 ~ ~1 ~

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1076 NM - 1 MR. \<77\RRT::N: All it takes is a little bit of brain. MR . TOBIN: Let your colleague speak, boy. MR. NEARY : - that official receptions and so forth are listed separately. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. MARSHALL: MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: I am asking? MR. NEARY: Oh, oh! Under what subhear1 iJ.re those? Under officin) m :-.c rtainment. Yes, but unc1:~x- "~ 1?.t subhead, Well the ~10n. rrentleman just gave me such a vague and general answer thai: ·.1?.

J.e-Ft the, impression with the Committe that the Prer1ic,c, t ;1~ ;, •:r, 'iO.J T referred to, the hon. gentleman left the iiTlpressj_n ·.-, ;: ,_,,t it Pi''-; taking c·;n -<-' \Ji" d<'il'<J<ltions .:tnd [,,,.,,;.,;, ''"'' '·"··:. •r 1on; "'' '~ ·II thnt sort of thing~ They are all listecJ ser->x-- ~tr:ly. This amount here of $6,453.00, official entc;rt?:i '1r -'en t by the Premier, could the hon. gentleman give us a '!Jre1kclm-m of that? MR. CHAIRNAN (Aylward) MR. Ml\RSHALL : '.''he hon. President of Council. Mr.

Chairman, I guess the hon . gentleman, you know, a breakdown, he is talking about the Public Accounts: look, $6,000 is a very, very little amount for the Premier of this Province to expend for the purpose of official entertainment,as it is called. When he is talking about visiting ambassadors and that this is,sometimes when it occurs,when there are very special occasions which require a much l<trqcr expenditure. nut. let me say this to the hon. gentleman, that the sum total of the amount spent by the Premier is very, very little for the benefit gained and the 2 2 ~j .

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1076 NM - 2 MR. MARSHALL: good will acquired by this Province. Let me also say that if he wants to compare all of the expenditures that are rnade,he would find that the Premier is very, very careful about the amount of money that is snenr. hecause he does not throw illoney around in wanton fashion. If the hon gentleman, if he has his files at horne- but of course it would do him no good if he had his files because nobody, including half the ministers, and he is a half leader so he is a half rninister,in the Smallwood Administration knew exactly what was spent.

But I daresay if you add up in one year what was spent by the Liberals in cntcrtilinrncnt, iln~ the ~osl to the Province and all the rest of it, with all the industrialists and John Doyle and John Shaheen, and all that bunch of rag­ amuffins that were paraded before this Province from time to tirne,that I would say in one year the expenditure of his administration would exceed the total amount that the Premier, even in these inflated days,will spend in his twenty, thirty, or forty years of office. MR. NEARY: MR. CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Mr.

Chairman, the hon. gentleman is the ultimate in nastiness, the ultimate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, we arc askinq for information and the hon. gentleman is getting up rnakinn snide remarks, referring to the Smallwood administration· I thought they were gone ten or eleven years ago. And let me say for the hon. gentleman's benefit, Mr. Chairman, the hon. gentleman said a few moments ago the Leader of the Opposition was not invited into the private dining room. Well I have news for the hon. qentlcrnan, I was invited into the private dinincr ~oom 2 ~ i: (1

,June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1077 SD - l MR. NEARY: by Mr. Frank Moores when he was Premier of this Province.And I was invited in in connection with one of the biggest scandals in this Province, when T sat down and talked to the han. Premier of that day and Senator Doody, three of us sat down and talked about this gigantic scandal,one of the biggest scandals in the history of Newfoundland. And I would like to have a tape recording of that conversation. So, Mr. Chairman - MR. MARSHALL: I would too. MR. NEARY: Yes. I guarantee you - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

NEARY: - the hon. gentleman would not have sat there and supported the administration if he had a tape recording of that conversation. And so, Mr. Chairman, if we want to keep referring to the past, well let us do it,but what we are trying to do is get information about present day activities of the administration. Now, Mr. Chairman, let me come back again to a question about the Premier's activities.

Obviously we are not going to get anywhere on the private dining room,but let me ask the hon. gentleman this, can 1111• 111>11. <JC'Iltlc'm;ln qivt• lllL' the• ~.ntal cost nf opc·r ~1tinq that dining room a year and give me a breakdown on how much is spent on food ,and how much is spent on wine,and how much is spent on booze and liquor and beer? Could the han. gentleman give me that breakdown? It is taxpayer money, Mr. Chairman, '~'.he taxpayers have a right to know how their money is being spent.

The welfare recipients in this Province would like to know, you know, how much it is costing to wine and dine the Premier and th e ministers, down in the private dining room. MR. TOBIN: Are you suggesting it should not happen? MR. NEARY: I am suggesting the han. <JcntJcman should not happen. Are we going to be able to get 2 3 i_, I

June 8, 1982 Tape No. 1077 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: this kind of information? AN HON. MEMBER: Sit down and he will tell you. MR. NEARY: I am waiting for the hon. gentle- man - MR. DINN: If you would care to sit down and give him the floor - MR. NEARY: No, if I sit down the Chairman has to go on to the next item. How much is the dining room costing? Can you give us a breakdown of the cost, and can you give us a list of names of all those who eat on a regular basis at that dining room? MR.PATTERSON: How about we give you the menu. MR. NEARY: Yes, the menu too. It is tax- payers' money.

It is not the hon. gentleman's money, it is taxpayers' money, in case the hon. gentleman &oes not know. MR. RIDEOUT: Did not you people have that down there? MR. NEARY: No. Mr. Chairman, let me say for the benefit of the hon. member for Baie Verte (Mr. Rideout} that when the dining room was started in the first place, ministers paid for their meals. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh! MR. NEARY: Oh! The old Sanda Claus has learned something new again. Ministers paid for their meals. MR. YOUNG: There is only one Santa Claus in this House. MR. NEARY: They paid, the public treasury, consolidated revenue, they paid 2 3 •. )

,lune 8,1982 MH. NI•:I\HY: OR. COLLINS : MR.NEI\RY : colleaque . DR .:_ COLLINS : Ml{ . NEI\RY: ~'i · _TOB IN: cost you - MR.NEI\RY: Tape No. 1078 for their meals . ~vhat year? ah -1 I will have to consult with my Okay, I will get the amount . It would be a good i1ea . If that is what r.appened it I am waiting for the hon. gentleman to get rne some information on that dining room . t1R . MJ\RSHJ\LL: Mr . Chairman , on that note, if the llon. 'l\'IILleman woultl :;I L clown , I wtll r<~spond . MR. Clll\IRt-1AN (Aylward) : The hon . President of the Council .

MR. ~1ARSHALL : The matter of supplies for the private dining roo1 , is •>t covered un<lc1· this particUlilr headinq of the t>remier ' s office, they are cove red , I would imagine, in the Department of Public ~vork.s . So I have not got that immediately available,but there is no problem in obto'lining this information lvhich we will obtain and supply to th .e hon . member lvhen it is available .

There is no provision as far as I can see,and I hav~ gone <'V•' I' t hi~ tl\orouqhly in th<' notC'!'; hC'rc, providinq for it, bul thc.rc mny be as l>'e go on , as we come to the other subheads , in which case I will advise the Committee . If ,,o t I will undertake, or we vlill undertake to obtain it and provide the information to the hon. member . SOM t·: II ON . MEM!3 ERS : MR.NEi\RY: MR .CIIAIRMAN : MR .NEI\R'i : ncar , hear! Mr . Chairman . The hon . Leader of the Opposition . Would the hon. gentleman also 2 3 ij ·l

June 8,1982 MR.NEARY : Tape No . 1078 ah-2 get us a list of the names of those who patronize the dining room on a regular basis? MR .CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : The hon. President of the Council . MR .MARSHALL : I have already answered that question to the bon . gentleman, ~tr. Chairman . You know if you were - well, no, I \oTill not say that because I cannot ask the Chair to - I was going to ask you, ~tr . Chairman, to repeat it to the hon . member. If he will not take it from me he may take it from you . I do not know . The fact of the matter is, ~ - ChaiL~an, there is no list of members .

For instance ,there was no list of members that I was ever .::ble to see . If I had known , for instance ,that the hon . member for LaPoilc (Mr .N eury) or whatever he was- Harbo ur Nain-Bell Island at thal p.trLlcular time - ,;as in the dining room with ~ . Doody and ~ . Moores at the time, I would have been very interested· 23 1

June 8, 1982 Tape 1079 EC - l Ml {. M/\HSJJI\J.J.: 7\t thuL ti .me , I woul<l have been very interested in knowing it, Hr. Chairman I would probably be in the next office with a glass against the wall trying to hear what was going on. There are many things that have gone on in that dining room, but in the days - I can only speak of the present days and say that that dining room is put to good use. We do not keep a list of people who go in there, all I can do is give an undertaking to this House, to the hon. member, which he can accept or not. I do not care whether he accepts it or not.

I can just say it is used for government business. It is used by ministers and the Premi~r in relationship to people doing business with the (_Jovernmcnt. No list is kept and that is all 1 can say, and if th e h on. gentleman wants to make something of it, he can make something of it. He can twist and he can turn and he can pass innuendoe~ but it is completely and absolutely aboveboard. As I say, it is not used by any of th P. family, party workers or friends of the hon. gentlemen here. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR. Cl!JI.IRMAN (Aylward): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR.

NEARY: Could the hon. the President of the Council tell the House - it is a wonder, Mr. Chairman, he did not choke on that last part about party workers. We can see party workers, and we did see them - I have not seen an y since the election, but before the election they were parading in and out across the lobb y of Confederation Building all day long. Now, would the hon. gentleman tell us if dinner is served in the private dining room on a daily basis? MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the President of the Council. 2 3 !_; ~-.

June 8, 1982 Tape 1079 EC - 2 MR. MARSHALL : No, Mr. Chairman, dinner is not served in the private d~ning room on a daily basis· I would think in the course of a year that there ure many more times that dinner is nnt srrvcrl r:u ther Uldi1 scL·v·._•d i11 l iu · dining room 1or the dining room is not used rather than used , because of t'1e fact that we just do not use it for the purpose of a free meal ticket. You know, we use it for the purpose of legitimate government business. That is what we intend to continue to commit the use of it for. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR.

CHAIRMAN (Aylward): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman, let us talk about motor vehicles. Could the hon. gentleman tell the House how many vehicles the Premier has ut his disposal? MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr.Chairman, any vehicles that the hon. the Premier has at his disposal are not voted under this particular heading so, you know, I do not feel disposed that I should be responsible to answer accurately.

All I can say is I know there is one vehicle made available to the Premier and in contra- distinction of the - and I do not like to get back in the past, but let us just put it this way, the hon. the Premier, as you can see, has a car down there which is a small car, a medium-sized car. I am not up on cars but it is a Chevy. It is a small modelled chevy, Llw same type of Chevy that the ordinary Joe on the street - I know the hon. the Minister of Education (Ms Verge) will - MR. OTTENHEIME::l.: Joe--ess. MR. MARSHALL: - Josephine, I am sorry, 2 J • M ·. :; fl

June 8, 1982 Tape 1079 EC - 3 MR. MARSHALL : I could not think of it ,Josephine - MR. OTTENHEI HER: The ordinary Joe or Josephine . HR. MARSHALL: - the ordinary Joe or the Josephine on the street drives around. And that is the way th e hon. the Premier is, I1r. Chairman. 2 3 ;j 7

June 8, 1982, Tape 1080, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: ·He is an ordinary Joe, he does not like to travel around in conspicuous cars. He has a very small car, the same kind of car that the hon. gentleman there - not the same kind, but along the same level as the hon. gentleman and myself have. MR. CALLAN: No way! MR. NEARY : Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN(Aylward): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: The only difference is you and I own ours. Mr. Chairman, let me ask the hon. gentleman if the Premier has more than one car. Does the government have a car that they use for official delegations etc?

Is there a special car for special people who come to the Province, like the Governor- General and so forth? MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL : Mr. Chairman, these questions are more properly asked, really, to the Minister of Public Works(Mr. Young), you know. Again, they do not come under this hcuuiny, !.Jut it lilllc l.Jchoovt•s me Lo d!;k Lll< ' hon. gentleman to be relevant, I mean, if· he wants to ask questions on the matters, there is nothing covered under this vote with respect to any cars.

But I can answer his question, there is one special car that I know of which is - MR. NEARY: What kind? MR. MARSHALL : I think it is a Lincoln Continental. I am not sure - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: I see. MR. MARSHALL: - some people tell me it is a Lincoln Continental, that is used purely and simply 2 3 ~~A

June 8, 19.82, Tape 1080, Page 2 -- apb MR. MJ\RSill\LL : for the purpose ef taking dignitaries from the airport to their accommodation and v~rious other things . tol.R . NEARY : Mr. Chairman . --- M!{_. ~ ·!~~-~ !<M~~J!IY _~_~~;· sn_: 'l'h~ hon . Llw l.c.:'ld~r: 0 r the Opposition . .t-IR. NEARY: Could the hon. g·entleman tell the House if that Lincoln C'onti .nental is the one that Mr . Moores bought, the Tory blue Li.ncoln contint ·ntal? Is tha.t the same one we are talking about? MR . CHAIRMAN: ·rhe hon . the President of the Council . MR . MARSHALL : Well, I do not know, Mr .

Chairman, whether it was the one that ?o1r . Moores got nut Mr. Moores , being a man of consummate good taste , if he was going to buy a ca.r: I. am sure he would choose Tory blue . _?OHE HON . MEMBERS: Hear , hear ! MR. NEARY: Mr. Chairman. MR . CHAI~~ = The hon . the Leader of the OppositiO !I. l'1R. NEARY: Ne, it \"as Dick Green who bought the To:cy blue one . M1\ • CALl.AN : What? MR. NEARY: It \vas Dick Green ~•h•~ bought the Tory blue one . ~ 'II HO.~ . i lEMBER : HR. !'lEARY: That is the Stanfield car . Yes, bought it for Mr.

Stanfield ' s visit, and registered in his m-m name ·\N 1!0:-l . ' !1:~11:1:1{ : tt is not the same one . HI{. NE/\RY: Mr . Chairman, I notice that tle Premier changes his cars quite often , is there any reason for that? Is there any spe9ial reason why the hon. gentleman drives different make cars, different colour cars? 2 J u ,,

June 8, 1982, Tape 1080 , Page 3 -- apb MR . CHAIRMAN (Aylward) : The hon . the President of the Council . MR . 1-I.ARSEIALL : Mr . Chairman, I de not know . I do not knOifl . whethE:r he changes them or 1:ot. But , I mean , I suppose if he does he probably doe~ it for the purposP. of trying to elicit asinine questions such as the hon . member asks . SQ!-1E HON. ME"'lBERS : Hear , hear ! M.~ . NEA~~ Mr . Chairman . MR . CHAIRMAN : The hon . the Leader of the Opposition . MR. NEARY: Getting back to the house, Mr .

Chairman, could the hon . gentleman tell the Committee what perks - over and above a free house, a rent-free house , woultl Lhc hon . gcnLlcm..tn Lcll Ll\1..' l'uuuuj Llt.'<' ,,,h.ll other fringe benerits go with that house? MR . MARSHALL : Mr . Chairman. MR . CHAIRMAN : The hon . the President of the Co unci 1. MR . MARSHALL: You kno1", listen to the hon . gentleman , 'Nhat perks? What fringe benefits? ' You kno1v , he just wants to colour and cloud iL . 1\ll l c,1n s.1y js - I was very impre ss ed with the hon . gentleman when he became Leader 2JHt

.lune fl, 1982 Tape 1081 JC - 1 e-m . MJ\RSIIALL : of the Opposition . But all I can say is when you get him annoyed and you can see that sL <~ t<.•s m.:~nship is really skin deep . It is not very deep in the han . gen tleman , because of the type of questio ns that he is ask in q now . The so -called perks he refers to ­ he is trying to insinuate that there are more perks , and , as I say , the Premier is feeding not only his own generation but the generations past and generations yet to come an the public trough , and that is completely and absoutely without any foundation whatsoever .

Each and every cent chat is expended and each and every benefit that the Premier gets in his office , when you add them up the 1"'11JI I•· nl Newlou tH II.Jtt d I<~Ou lu ;Aqr~.:e Llt.tL Lhe !Jt: lll'r i Ls [10 1</ Lmmeasurably more . I would think, from the Premier, to the people of the Province than the Premier receives . But each and every so-called perk , as he calls them \llhen he wants to put colours on them , are available for the hon . gentleman . They ,, r<' out: r ront fe>r everyone to sec . There is Mourt Scio llouse , becouse the hon . gentleman happens to already to have a house in South Brook .

And because the hon . gentleman is Premier , it is better we think for the hon . the Premier to be residing in this house tha n some Lord Baron from Engla nd. tve think it more nppro pri.1te, Mr . Chairman , the government thinks it is more ,1ppn 1p d<1tc that if the Premier , who had always lived before lh' w.t~: l'n'lll i\•r in ~nuth nrook - T d<trc SilY th.::tt he would prefer t.o li.vc i.n hjs own house if he had his clruthers again , but he has to come in here as Premier and in that case the governmen t has made this particular deci sion '"ith respect to the house .

The way the hon . gentleman would have it, the han . gentleman 2 J I 1

June 8, 1982 Tape 1081 JC - 2 MR. MARSHALL : would confine the office on the Premier to millionaires or. God help me, members from St. John's. MR. CHAIRMAN (Alyward) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: I thought the hon. the Premier lived in an apartment at Pleasantville prior to moving to Mount Scio house. MR. MARSHALL: I forgot about that. MR. NEARY: Oh yes, I see the hon. gentleman conveniently overlooked that. Now, would the hon. gentleman tell the House, tell the Committee who pays for the electricity bill at Mount Scio house? MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. President of Council. MR. Ml\RS!IALL: M1·.

Chairman, l dSSUniL', this IH ,ill'l a house which is a house belonging to the people of Newfoundland, it is maintained by the people of Newfoundland. MR. CHAI