..!1"' Volume XL Thursday Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} Speaker: -Hcaou.rable P.J. McNicholas Number 48 2 June 1988

··---· ··-·-·-·-·-·· -··------· · -·- ·· ... ·--· -·· ---·- "'·--·-·-- ·----- ·· The House met at 2:00 p.m. MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): Order, pi~Ase! 0 () 0 MR. SPEAKER: The han . the President of the Council. M'R. SIMMS: I just want to give notice, Mr. ~5pE!dkl"~r, that. I .i.ntr~~nd l-.o pr'eS('!rll a potnt of pl"ivj lege in the House at. the:~ ecH'.l..i.es 1.: oppor'l-.un.i.l ·.y I dS soon as I have had occaston to do SO/fiE! i"eser.~rch and 9€:~1: lapE!S or sorn~;:' comrnent .s made by the Leader of:- l h n 0 p p o s i l.

J o n IAJ h "i. c h , I undE!rsl ~.and, refJected not onJ.y on your ' Honour but: C('!J"·i:a:i.nl.y, therefore, reflected on all !Tilc!rnb(;!r's oF thLs hon. House. PersonalJ.y, I find that distasteful and distressful, but, i n a 11 fa i r n e s s , I wi 11 no t present the case unt"i.l I have an opportunity to do some research on the matter. But I do want to give notice of it, so that I can raise it at the earliest opportunity. DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker, a point of privil.ege. MR . SPEAI<ER: The han . the Minister of Health . Df~.

COLLINS: r·'Jin. ~:)p(;!ai<C!I', yo1.1 rnc :~y recall thai : ye~>tE.~I"day I gavE• not-.::i.CE! sodS not: !-.: 0 b (! in C1 l"l y L>.Ji:'l. y c'1 r; C l.l <;; (:! d 0 f sitU ng on rny r'ights, that I tAJou1cl I" L s e () 11 d p 0 i. n l:. () f pi" .i. v :i.l. e g 0 c:·1 r l:. (~I'' I had had a chancE! to do a CE'I~tain .::~.1 no u n 1-. o F n c:! c c'! s s i'l i" y .i. n v '~ s 1·: .i. q r'd.: l. on . So T: do t·:hd l: notAl.

You I" ilonour·, T would like to state my point of pri .vilegp and thE!n not dd>ct l.:e the L2r.>87 June 2, 1988 Vol XL point of privilege, which would be out of order, that can only be done after Your Honou~ makes anoth(!r' rultng, but then go on ·to say tJ.Jhy I fE!E!l Your Honour should acu!pt: the point. of pr'iv :i.1E!q~:l so that the House can debate the mat+.:c;'r, and in doing so r do have to givE~ a bJ .t: of I:Ja c kgl~ouncl l nf o r·rna l.: :ion .

J lAd . i.1 k 1,:• r:• p ·i. t as bl"iE!f as I possibJ.y can, but to rnakE! thE! point:, ·for I thi.nk Ulis is an important matter and lAJOrthy of Yo u t' H o no u r 1 s at+: E! n U. o n , I d o have to go into a bit of backgi"ound and I do hop€~ Your Honour will give me that leeway. Mr. Speaker', ·the po:i.nt of pr':i .tJ.i.l. 1->.9 e i ~> l"'ea 1 J. y in t hr, :•e pa l"ts and involves the Leader of the . . l . . I Uppos~:~on tn oac1 case.

The l.,~aclei" oF !.:he Opposi ·l~.ion hd-;:; violated my privileges by J"E'fl.E!CL:l.ng on my conduct as a member of this HouSE!; hE! has ind:Lcated, in no unc(~!rtatn tE!r·ms, that my conduct. is irnpropE!r' and that :improper' conduct comes from alJ.eged violation~ of certain gtJide1inE!S to Lhe Conflict of IntE!rE!St Act. That is thE! first. part of my point of privilege. The second

part is that despit e author'it.at·.i.tJ(;! ciE!n:Lals o r~ Lh ~C! allegations, and when I say r.11 1 l.: h o r' .i. 1-. a 1-. i ~J e , 1 authol"il:attve by l:hE! Pr·urn :ier' tJ n ct e I" took 1: o .i. n v us 1~. ·i q i"t ·1·: E! hon. thE! m~:!ITibE:!r fo1n St. Bal"bE:> ITJ ('' ,:q 11 iA)l"i() l:". ht:! c r.!lr· . ::· u r· E:' y ) ~; m :i. I" k s a t -1. h c-?.

P r' rc' rn :i. r'.! r , b u 1: I look on l::he Pr~:!JTJi.(;!r a~; an a 1.1 thor· J 1·: y and I 1". h ·L n k I . h E:• p E:' o p 1 E! of this Province look upon the J>;"r''!lrl""i ('!I'' 61'> <:'11"1 dlll:ho;n .i.[·:y I a 1!1<.'11'1 IJ,.Jho SE•rVE!cl hi.s Province through lhick dnd l.:h.i n for' n.i.nH Y"!r.1t·s or' ntor ··lo!. On the bas:is of an r:'lui:hor·-:Ltal· :iue clc!n.i .al by l:.he Pre1n.i.er, i:'lnd on l::he basis of deniaJ. by cd.:her~; t;.Jho ar'e ·i. n ft p o s ·i. t "Lon to I< n OlJJ L hE' facts , No. 48 R2587

they have denied thH substancr~~ o·F those allegations, despite that, the hon. member .i.n a LoLal.J.y non-parlf~~entary, honourable way hc~s pel"s-Ls ·l:ed IJJ:U:h h'i.s aJ.J.ega'c i.ons and his chal~ges and has gonE! so F 61 r· ,,, s 'l o c ''' 1. J. r or p 11 n ·L s h rn E! n t . i:l y punishuwnL T lTlE!an that I should e i t: hE! 1" I" Cc' 1. .i n q u--L s h o i'"' b (;! 1:~ s ked 1:. o relinquish my ministerial post. SOME liON. MF.:MBF.:RS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : Ordc-?.r! DR. COLLINS : The third point of my point of pr·ivilege, Mr.

SpC:~aker, is that thE! hon. the Leader of the Opposition alleged that I violaLed a non-existing guideJine in the ConflicL of Interest Guidelines, and dE!spjtE! thE! patent nonsense of that, the pal:.ent nonsense of uioJating a non-E!Xisting guidE!linE! ·- thE! pa·tE!nt nonsElnSE1 of tha ·t ··· he continues to prE:1ss that point in t.his House and ·i.l1 the pr·ess, but in t.his House. Nov.J, Mr. SpeakE!r, the basis for my poi.nt of privilege: I would 1 ikE! to call to y o u r· a l t e 11 U . o 11 1: o H e au c he s n e , Ed:i.tio11 IV, Page 98,

Section 108, Subsc:!C"Lton (3). AN HON. MEMRER : Would you repeat that? Dr~. COLLIN~~: l:dition IV, Page,' 98, ~-3c-?.ctton 108. 1 think it is thE! same

section in rnost ecLl.tions. T do not knot•J :if my edition is UfJ-to-date, quite honE!S tly. SE:'ction 108, subs~:!ction ( 3 ) . I lAd J 1 r' e a d t. h a t. . I t j s sho1nt. 11 l .. ibeJ.s on mernbE·r·s hauc~! also bE!E!Il consl:.antly punisl·wd: bul: to constitute a breach of privilege they must concern the ch<:u·act.c->.r or conduct. of mE~rnb(-?.I"S in 'l:hat capacity, and thE! libe1 must 1_2588 June 2, 19138 Vol XI. be based on matters arising in the actual transaction of the business of the H o u s P . 11 We 1 1. , · no IAJ , · t h e last point is self-evident.

In t h i. s IAJ h o J. e m ,;J. t ·t e r· l~ h 1::! a c c u s a. 1:. i. o 11 s came up during the business of the H o 1.1 s !'::~ c:Hl d , .:,, s 1 h au e s La ·h=• d "i. n rn y point of Pl"ivilE!ge, rny conclucl: a::: a 1r1 E~ rn I:H:! r· h d s ~H~ e n i. 1 n p u rj 11 e d . Mr. SpeakE!r I I also dr·cliAJ r.:o YOU I" a.li:C-?.ntion Erskine May. M.i.nc,1 i:-:I<Jdin is the Eighteenth Edition, Page 148. 1 will go back to Beauchesne. I am sorry! I have not quite finished with Beauchesne. This is Beauchesne, SE:~ction 112, Page 1.01 Jn my edition of Beauchesne. MR. WELLS: Where is it? DR . COLLINS: Page 112. MR.

SIMMS: The Fourth Edition . DR. COLLINS: The Fourth Edition, Page 101, ~:3 e c t i. o n l l /. . ~) u b · · s e c -1.: i. o n ( 1 ) o ·F 112 reads: 1 Parliament is not concerned IJJheHwr or not a libel uttered against it is liable to be LJ·'Led by<"~ COLli''\.: of 1•·'\I~J, uil-.hu:-- or::­ ciuil Ol" crirn:inal j Ul":isdiction.

May s a y s : 11 flo i: h I I o u s E! s IAf i.ll 1:) u n :i. s h not or11y contl=~rnpts ar-.i.s::i n~J out of F d c t:. s IAJ h i. c h t: h :":! o I" cl -.i n a I" y c o u I" t s IJJilJ. l:ake cogn:izanCE!, but: t.ho~;E! of 11.J h 1. c h L~ h e y c a n n o L , s u c h a s cord: E' m p t u o us i. n s u J. t s , g r·· o s s calumny, 11 ·- that is the clause I am arE:~ refE!rring to - 11 gross calumny or· foul epi.thr:d:s by 1.uord of rnouth not L\J::i.t.h:Ln thE• categcli"Y of acLionable slander or Lhreat of bodi1y :i.nj Ul"Y. 11 1 It is t·.he 1 gl"o::; s calumny 1 par' 1:. t:her'0.~. 1 would also to Beauchesne, No. 1.1-3 d I" a1JJ your f.'.l t: t E:! n t: ion but I wi11 not read R25H8

~ ·---·- ···- -·-·-- · ----··-- -·"' ......... . . , ..... .:.-·--- ·-- -----------·· -·· ---- .. --· ·--- -- this,

Section 113 Perhaps I in is could just read one sentence it, -but the whole paragraph applicable- here. This sentence:~ says: 11 LibE!ls members and aspersions upon in rE!lation to Parliament one upon them and interf(~r(!nce o·F any kind their official breaches oF the dutiE!S I Pl"ivi1l':!9(:1S \)J:i. th arE! of the mE!rnbE!r's. 11 Of suggestion and resignatior1 is interference with du·ties. course, the call for certainly an their oFficial Mr'.

Speake:~r', as I bE!gan a Ji ttle IAJhiJP. ~190 there on F.i"S !dnc~1 May, t.h~~ Eighte~~nth Edition, Page 14-B: 11 Ana1ogol.ls to lnoJ.GsLr.d.::i.on of Members on account of thElfln bE!hi:·1V Lo111' i.n Pai"l.i.i:'tiTl<:!nt. ar'l-'! sp(:H'ches and t.~.w ·:i tings n~1fJect.:ing upon -t.:h::!

Lr' conduc 1.: C::.t'> Member's. 11 It gOE!S on to say that these are I h.igh V'i.Olal:. 'i.OI'lS or i:hf:! 1"-.ighl.:S i'll'ld pr-:ivil.eges of the HouSE!. 1 11 Writ ·ten :imputations, as affecting a Member of Parliament, may amount to a breach of privilege, without, perhaps, being libels at common law, but to constitute a breach of privilege a libel upon a Member must conCE!rn the character or conduct of the Member in that capaci l·:y. 11 Mr'. ~::;poakf:!l", I th::i .nk cln i:'tnaJysis of thoSE! r'E!FE!rE!I'lClc'S, and T do not pi"E~tE!nd l:.hat I haVE! done:! an E:~ X h aU S liVE! I" E!

Vi HIAJ 0 f 1:3 e C\ l.l C h f~ S n E! and of Erskine May, but I think thosE! aJ.onE!, and I suqgesl: LhE!I''E! may be oi:hE~r sec ·l~ions, tAJilJ. also show 1:. h ct-1.: you c"' n no l: b 1" i. n y i:!ll c:lgi3.tions agaJns l:: thE:! conduct of d iriP.iflb 1-:! I" ~~ S d tnC :!iflbl'! i" 0 (' 1: h i. c; !lousE:! I i:.tnd that is tAJhat. has bE!E!I'l cl on::! d n cl h r:·1 s b c:! C'' n p c-:• I" s .i. s t

r) d j, n , despite denials by authoritative s t A 1: f:'! m E'! n t s r.-1 n d b y p I" e ~; c~ n t r:t 1·. i. o n o 1- fetcts. 1...2589 JunE! 2, 1988 VoJ. XL Now, Mr. Speaker, we in ·this House knouJ i·:hal: tAJe cannot get into this matter unless a pd.ma -fac:i·e · case 'i.s C:'S'l:i:tblished. And I tAJOUld just like to suggest to Your Honour, and I am sure Your' Honour kncnJ.JS this, that a prima fac:i.e caSE! is not t-.:o sa y Lhat th(:!r'e "i~; an indubitable case of pr:i.vilege t I r- l I t l ' p r' E! sen .. . . - :: ·1 a - lJ.Ja s : n E• case , {:he dE:~batE! IAJOUJ.d bE~ OVE!r'.

Prima fac-ie case ITlE!ans there:! is a reasonable possibility of breech of pr'i.vilE!ge. In othE!r tAJOI"cls, the point of privilege brought forward .i. s not a f I" j_ lJ o 1 o us rna t t e r , i. t i. s a matter where there is a reasonable pos~db:il.Jt-.y l.:hat -1-:he actual prj vi1E!gE!S of a ITIE!ITlbE!r or of the l·lous:~ hav:.:~ be('!l'l Jrnpugnt:~d. f\JotAJ, f"li ". ~pc~akPi", to do tht-1l:, as I mentioned earlier, I do have to g .i. tJ c~ i:1 b i" .i. !''d~ ou-t: -L 'i. n e of l.: he f iH l~. s of this matter, which I will do shol"-l:.ly. 13u"l: just--. be"!FOI~e I do tha-t, I tA.IO U 1 d likE! t: 0 bE!

SUI" E• ·t ha-l.: tAJhE!t'l I say 1 conduct as Cl. rnembE!r 1 I am aware of the fact that the Leader of the Opposition says that I brokE! thE! guideJ.inE!S as a Minister oF the C~own not as a member of this House. But I do have to point out that the guidE!lines thE!mselves arE! not the l i:11.-~J.

The qu·.iciP.lJnr:~s r'elrtt. c:' t:.r) !--hE• act an cl t. hE' 1 at.~.J, and ·if yo t." b r· E:• a k !: h E! q ' 1 ·i. d e l -L n C:' s , !AJ h C:! t h ('! r· <.'\ rn j_ n i s l:-. 1:• r Ol" not and that. is substant:i.al:.ecl, you di"C:O in ui.olat .ion of thE! acl: and l:he JatA.J, and the• act and the 1. a tAl h a s p 1.1 n -.:L s h rn E! n 'L: s I).J h :.i. c h a p p 1. y t:. o someone bE!cause hE• :l.s a rnE!rnbE~r of l..he l·lousf'~. qu"Ll-.c-:! i.'lpr.H·I: l~l"orn b(!·ing a rninistE!r. So l:.he fact +:hat if I bi"OkE:• thE'! . I J . . . I . I <] 1,1 :J. C ~;! . .1. 1"1 C:!

S a S d ITI'l. 1'1 l S 1:: E' i" , IAJ '1 .t C '1 has bE! en a 1 J. e ~1 E! cl on u r1 f o u n cJ r::l d Fdcl.!;, .i_r: r: br-oke l:.he l.i:'tl;.J as a rn:l.n:isl'.:E!r I cliTI :in l)ioJat::i.on of l:he d c I~ a n d 'l: h e i:'t c t s d y s t·.: i'l c::t t: rn y conduct as a rnernber was improper. No. 4-8 f~2589

Therefore, that is why I make that point. NotAl I facts Mr. ·spc-:1ab:~r, just of the matter at th(,~ bar·e hand. I had an ownership interest, interest, an investor a part-time 01AJ11(:H'Sh .. i.p Jn'l.:erest, 2f:) FJIH' C('!l'li·. -:l.nter~(,'SI.: latl·:E!I"ly, for~ fifteE•n y ~~ a i" s i. n a c o m p a n y c i:l l .l c:! d l Co! i" I" d Nova Enterprises - that was its latter name. !ts orlglnal was Medical Arts Limited f·.ifb~en yer.H'S, bE!fOr(,~ my eJ.ection to t.his hon.

House. one. n a 111e for f.lr·st Fact Fact t\JJo: When I be carne a member of this House I laid out that information in my statement, my statement that was required by The Conflict of:- InterE!St Act, but continued to be involved actively in th(:~ busin(O!Ss, lAJhich t.o.Jas qui. ·l:E! pr"opE!r undE!r the Act. I laid ou{: that information, that I was a part owner of this company and was involVE!d in thE! bus.inE!SS of l:his company, I laid that out in my annual statements repeatedly, to ·t. his v e r y date . Fact tl.I.JO . ract tht"(:~e: When I was invited by l.:h(:1 hon. thC:!

Prem.i.er to become a member of his administration and I:)I'!Ci'tlnc:! a rni.ni.r;{·_c:!l", J clicl d nurnbc~i~ of t-hings. Firstly, I dE•tE•rmined to cease my activo role in ths I . ll l . h b . :JUs :HH:! s s , : '1 a·:: J. s l:. e · us ·1 n E! s s , l.:he corntn(o!i"C.i.al bt.r!;.lness, Ll·1f~ I"E!ntaJ act:ivitiE!S, thosE:~ sor"ts of t h i. n g s L h a t t h ~~ c o rn p ;~ n y d ·i d a s a businE!SS. That is l:h~:! first thing T cl.i.cl.

The SE:'Cond thing, I .infor·med {:h(~! other d:ir'E!Ctors t h E! r E! t~.J c,~ I" e f o u I" d t r e c t o 1~ s i n t h E! company, of which I lAJas onE! -- I informed them that I was doing this and I r.u:i .thdrE!l.U rny pE!rrn:i.ssion that·~ l::he company should l"egal"cl lnE! as a director. And the third thing I did, to gE!t aLAJay fr·orn any doubt in my own mind, for that L2 .590 June 2, 1988 Vol X I. matter, but certainly in anyone else's mind that I had anything to do with the company, I put· my ownership share ln trust. The trustee turned out to be - ir actudl fact t:hj .s was I: hE!

SE!nsible t hi n g ·to do , i n my v i e IAJ any IAJ a y ;u1 o ~ ... h n i" chi" e c to i" of ·Uw company , lAJho rAJas a latJJYE!r, Mt". Don M(!r'CI'o!l'' ··- l.:hl::! narnu has bnen lfl('!nl::j_oni:•cl bE!fore, I bE!J.ieve -.. Ml". Dor : Mercer, q.c., ancl he became my trustee and was therefore given f u 11. i" ·.i. g h t s t o v o l:E~ a n cl E~ x e r c i s e my ownership share. Now, Mr. Speaker, in 1981 guidelines were brought in For the first. U .me :i.n regard to th~:' Conflict of Interest Act. There werE! no guide 1 in e s bE! forE! or· , if there were, they were sort of j_nformal.

But in mid- .. ·1981 tilE ' han. the Premier made a Ministerial Statement in lhis House where he laid out guidelines, including guidE!lines For ministers. Shortly after that, as the guidelines rE!quired, I tAJr·ote Uw Pr·(:!mJc,~r. I had not wri ttE!n him prior to this, becausE ' t h e () c t d .L d n o t r e q u i r (:~ :i t . Although, I believe, and I cannot •Jouch for· thJ.s nor ccHl I prove this, that in conversation prior l:.o l:ha ·l.

T hc1cl Lnforrnr,!d h'i.rn r1bout rny lack of business activities, t.v h e n h o i. n 'J ·.ll: 0. d rn c,~ :i. n l: o t: h <c' CabinE!t, but that: is jrnrnE~tE·r·jal, J guc~ss. Tn dcLudl facl.:, l_he 1981 guidelines required lhaL E rn"in:lsi:E:H' ·i.n those circumsl:ancE!S LAJritE! to Uw Pn•mier, t.u~d.ch 1 procc~!r"·d~:!d to do, and Lh(,' hon. thE· Premier tabled a copy of that 1 (:~ t 1·. e r· .:L n t h-i. s h o n . H o u s (! l: h e other day. Anyway, thE! J.et tE!l' pointed oul.: l:he r=-act or::- rny ownership, my share ownership.

Thir·dJ.y, i-t. po:i.nt:E!d out that l:.hc company rc-?.nl:s to goVE!rnmE:~nl:., 1n~H1ts space to goVE!rnlrlE!nt, has donE! sc No. 48 R2590

for fifteen years and continues to do s o . F o u r t h l y , i t poi. nl: e d o u t my non-activity in the business affairs 6F the company. If il has not been tabled, my information is tha l~ :i.l: has, 1 am qui bo! pt"E!pi:H 'E!d to tab] e a copy of il . But the hon. the Pr~:>.m:i.E!r, 1 believe, '!: a b 1 E:' d j. t U1 E• o t J·w I" d a y IAJ h e n h E! tabled other information. The letter pointed out my non-activity, including the fact that I put my shar'E!S in trust, and it pointed out that I continued to share in the profits of the company. All t~hal:: IAJas laid out t.o the Premier .

The Premier replied approximately one mo n l: h 1 a l:E! r iHt d he sa .i d i. n h J s judgemE:'nt, and the guid(->,lines laid Lhis rE!Spons:ib.i.1:Lty q1.l'i.l:t':! cJ.ear'l .y on the Pt"E!ITiiE!r, thE! PrE·rniE:~r r'E:•pl.JP.d aboul: d rnonLh Ja·i·.nr' ~>r:\y.i.ng that 1 in my j udgeniE!n l: thE! c.i.l"curnsti:lnC"!S you t"c~li:l'L:::! to rne 1 , and I am not quoting his exact IAJOI"ds, '·i.ndicaLE! you C:H 'E'! no!.: 'in a conflic-t of interest. Now, r.11r. Speaker , t h c'1 t :l s fact Four . Fact fit)C:~ is Ute~t sinC(c~ 19'79, IAJhen I became a minister, I have ·taken no

part in any decisions or discussions regarding the affairs oF Lhe cotnpany, Lhc'! coiTIIflE!I"C:iEll aff:a:irs . ThE! company I"E•nts space esSE!ntially. Thal :. is 1.uhat . .it d o E:! s . I t o IAJ n s b u '.i 1 d :i n q s a n cl r' e n t: s s p a c e l o b o L h 1: h e p 1~ :i v R l.: e s E! cl: o r and t:o the pubJ.i.c ~~ ('!C tor '; :it rE!nts 'it: on l:hl"! basts t.hat p(c1.opl(:' J.!.d'l.l take up space in the buiJ.dings.

I haVE! t.ak(~l'l no par'"\.: :in th("! decisions or di sc uss ion s eit:he:~r at govel"nrnc :'!l'lt level., dc~pRI"l.:lnC:'!I"'l:.61.1 level, Cabtnet level, Cabinet Co mnd. t: t: e l:! l. n tJ ('! J. , rrri. n i s t e i~ .i. <:'ll lE!VE~J. Ol", .i.ncloed, any d:iscussion IAJ:i l·: h L h u L i" 11 s i ·. ''! C:! u n t: h ''! :; n rn i'l 1:. L: u I" :; . ·r h e o n 1 y c o n v u r' s R t .i. o n :; T h d tJ e uJi th the trustee ~~elated hi:1d t.o L259l Junco~ 2, 1988 lJol.

XL matters like remittances to me, wh lch T he~d ·i.nd:i.ci:lh~d to the Premier t.UE!rE! happening, ·and which, of course, are not ·in any way improper, and secondJ.y, u~rtain persDnal things l.ike personal gual~antE!E'S to banks, thoSE! sor'ts of rnat::te:~r's, no ol.:her' matt(!r··s. That is fact fiv e.

Fact six is t.hat I Wi.'l.S una1.ua1~e of any d(~alings, s:ince 19'79, dE!pa-rtrnE!nts of governrnE!nt or agencies of government or quasi agencies of government might haVE! h a d tAr.i. t: h Ud s c om p a n y , e x c E! p t:. t h a t: information that ultimately became publi.c k1'10lAJh1dgc;!, I hcc.d no oUH:!r knowledgE! nor did I want to haVE! knowledge, and that was the purpose of putting my shares in Linus ·l:..

T hc:'tcl no knCllAJlE'!clge or' wanted to have knowledge of any cle~:-1.·1.-i .ng·; l'.hc:l'l·. l.:hH cornpany 1,;as carrying on with government, IAJh U 1:. he i" i. ·1·. lAJi'l !) i" ('! 1'1 E'!I.\Ji:'tl 0 F } (;! d S ('! S , whether it was new leases, whether i.l: IAJas LhE! sut"r(:!ndE!r' oi lE:~ClS<:!S, LAJhatever it was. And thE! final fact: At no timE! d.icl I IAiilhdri:'t~,<.J my pe:H'rniss :ion t~hat I not be a dirE!Ctor. And, Mr . Sp(-?.aker, that 'is important. No one can be a director of a company a g a ·i. n s l.: h i. ~; 1.1.d ll o I" IAJ'i ~=· h o r' p E· nn i s s :L o n .

A t n o ·h 11'1 e d :i d I reinstate rny permis sio n that I should be a director. NouJ, Ml". SpE!akE!r, aJ.J. t:.hose facts, those seven Facts which I think are quite cJ.ear, quite sirnpJe, q 1.1·i. t: c~ s l: 1~ a i. g h t F o r'IAJd I" d , can bE! understood by anyone, all those f<.'tcts hc::tve be:! on s l:.a·l".c'!d bo l~h by l:hE! Premier and aJ.so in l:he lett:er t.h.:1t. !:he PrC:'In.i.eJ" t.ctbl::!d ()i'l rny bE:•half, and also in question~; thal: 1.: he Pi"C!IIri .::! ,., r'l n SI.\JU I"'C::!d cl u J""i. ng Quest'i.on F'E:•r:i.od and (:'\ t o Lh•"•r' l::iiTIUS L h r:!

P i" E! 1 n .i. (! i" <'1 n ~; I.AJ e I'' o d '" l. 1 t h o s l=! points, even in public. No. I.J.s r'2591

The point about it, Mr. Speaker, is that there has been non-acceptance of those matters by the Leader · of the Opposition, and that is where the violation of privilege comes in. T have no quarrel with the leader of the Opposition maktn~ an allegatton.

But ::if tht:! allE!gat-:.ion ptnoves unFounded, c:tnd I sugg::~sl: l:hi.·l 'L. allegations should only be made aF't::H' somE:1 -Lnves ·U .gi.-lt :i.on so a~; not to cause embarrassment and confusion and d:lst1n0ss ·ther·0 ·i.s nothing wrong with making aJ.lc,1gat·i.ons, T suppose, but LL J:; unparliaiTIE!ntary and, in my viE!W, a bIn('! (:1 c h o f my p r :i. u il e g ~1 ~; .i. f , IJ.J I·H~ n those allegations have been adequately responded to and ansWE!r·ed to, the facts are not thE!n accep"l:E!d and t~hal: :i:; thE• E!nd of ·it.

NOIAJ, rJ!tn ' Speaker J I think Hansard of May 26, pag e R2356 and Hansanj May 30, pagE! R2418 -· I do not haVE! a copy of Hansard June 1, yesterday, but yesterday Tape 1987, IB-·4, that is the reference, if you will look at those you will find that thE! hon. the Lei:H~E!r' of the Opposition states unequivocally that he ?. retai .ns hi.s all egations and hE! retains his c h i'll'' g e s , d c:! s j:J i L t:! l~ h n Ptn l'!rn:ic"!l' ' ha~> latd out ·irt 0 r r::- () i" rn s . T h !:1 i ·. .i. s I.~J h C:! I'' f~ of pt "'iuilE!~Jt~ cornr: :!~' ir1. r d c ~~ ~' t.: 11 c! a nutrtber i.:hr:! po Lnt 1\JJI ".

SpeakE•:···, I ju st IAJanl: ·l:.o ITtakE! l:.IAJO f Lnc:~l r·c :!lrti'U '·k s, I th i.nk . r:it"stly, you can ~"'.lnJ.y br·ing in a potnl of priull ege lf you do il at t h e e a r·J. i E! s t t i rn e . I g a v e n o t i c E! ye s l:E!rd <'lY and today L\Jas the E:'at"1 iE!Si: time I couJ.d do it, b(!Ca U.S(" I said I hdd l:.o do C(:!r· ·ti:·lin investigation. SecondJ.y, ye s l'.:el~cli.'\Y IAJas UH ".! c'1dt" l:.Lr::•s l: L:itne I couJ.d entertain a point of privilege, because it was stiJ.l possible for the han. Leader of L2592 June 2, 1988 Vol.

XL the Opposition, having heard yesterday's Ministerial Statement by the han. the PrE!mie·r, to haVE! totally wi .thdra!}jn his charges and, if he was an hon. gE!ntlernan, offer dn apology. H<;! did not do thc. ,~t, so yesterday was the ftrst time l: h d ·I: T f _i. n i:t l.l. y h <.'\ cl 1:: o s <'1 y 61 n d accept that he was not going to do .i. 1. no rn cl t l.: o r· IAJ h i"l ·I. e l; j_ cl C::! n c e IAJ d ~~ presented; I could only rnake rny rn:i.nd up then l·:.h.:,i: hr~ wets not go:i.ng to do it and, ther·efore, I had to g e 1: u p o n l h J s p o J n t of p r i. lJ .il e g e .

I\JOL1J, my f.inc:tl. poi.nt, Mr. Speaker ; I have been in this House thirteen y C:! c\r' s c:~ n d I h a v c~ b C:! f:! n a rni n is t E! r fot" nine years. I have sE:~en, I think, six Leaders of the Opposib.on, at J.east six, and sornE· of thE!Se L~'adE!r 's of l:hE! OpposiL.oi.on dE!aJ.t j.n barE!-·knuckJ.E! po]:i.b .cs, and God bless them for it, but this j s thE! fJ.r st U .rne I halJE! E!lH!I"' had to r:ise on a point of privilege where I was personally involVE!d. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I do not say that that says much about rne, but I ·thtnk 'it: say s a lol:: c:~bour. t:·.hE· present Leader of the Opposition, the sixi:h Leader oF th e Opposition. After thtrt E•en ye ars, n i n t" y

c) cl i" s i~l s cl rrr:i n is Let" , an cl knowing th e viL:altty with which t h ::> p i" (;! l) .i. 0 I I ~; I . C:! t'l cl r:! I" ~:; 0 f l:: h E! Oppositton pursued their course, L o h d l.J ::• i: h ·.i. s c o 1 n e 1 1 F> i:'l l:: l:. h i s sta~~e, I l:hink Sc'lys a 1o t: about~ L:h:::! l_nr:lc:ler· of l:.he Oppos 1 L:·.i.on. SOME liON. MEMBEI~S : Hear·, hear! DR. COLLINS: Not~J. Mi". Spl"al«=!t", T IAJant to finally point out that I hf"'ve always declared my bu s:iness inlE!rE!Sl:s sctnupuJousJy, and I a ~;;k the Lr:'aciE!r' of the;! Oppos-i t'ion, has he aJ.ways dE!Clared his intet"E ~sts? No. 11-8 R2592

;.L Mr. Speaker, I say that I have a 11..ua y s r ul. 1 y d o c l are d my j_ n t e r c s t ~> and I ask the Leader of ·the 0 p p o s it ·i. ci n -, 1·1 d s l·w f 1111 y d (! c l.i:tr' c d his interests? Mr. SpE!aker, I h<:~vc~~ no secrE!t i.ncome. My ·incorne is known to everyone, where its source is; tL is From the govet"nrnc,!nt and it .: is from my business incE!rr:~sLs, IAJhich aln<':! la.id out in lett.eJ"s. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I ask the Leader of the Opposition: have a secret income? hon. lhc~~ Does he F"i.naJ.J.y, Mr.

Speai<E!l" l do no L ,,~,ant to :intrud~;;~ on your good g r a c E! s I cl o 1-: <:I k c~ .i. t h a i" d , '1-: h C:! s e allegations corning fl"om t.h€~ LE!adE!r or tho Oppo::oiti.on IAJho l.eci:Lii"(!~~ u:; on dCc!COI"UrTI hC-:!I'E! and, I1E!VE!I'thelE:!SS, pI" o c c~ e d s by ·i. n n 1.1 c~ n do , .i. n ~' J. n u i:'ll J. on and Jess than full exposition of Uw f ~~ c t s . SOME 1-101\J. MEMB E I~S : Heal", hear! M R . lrJ ELLS : Mr. Speaker . Ml~ . SPEAI<EI~ : ·ThE! hon. the LeadE!r of the Oppos:l.Llon . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WELlS: Mr.

Speaker, tAiith your pE!rrnission, I i::J.rn going l:o ask l·:h(! Oppos.i.l.:ion House L<~!i'H~EH' (MI". Tulk) to dE!Cll 1..11 .i. 1: h 1: h E! r C:! F E! r o n c e s 1: o B e r.1 u c h E! s n c~ be c au s e I 1..11 a s m a k i. n ~~ no t E! s o n 1: h €:! F d c t u r:·\ 1 1 n a 1: t·. e l" s IAI h i. c h. - :r I.A.! i:'t n L E! cl 1·. o adcit"(-:!SS spEH:ifical1y. I t..~ri11 ask 1-: h E! 0 p p o s .i. 1~ . .i o n II o u s c~ I . r:! i'\ d c:! l" L: o d o ·that and I will not deal with it . 1..2')93 J\.1110. 2, 1988 Vol XI . rJ!tn.

Speaker, what I have said :in L h J. s l J o use IAI·i. l h res p c-:! c t to 1: his matter is clE!ar and in ·the l"ecor·cl . Ned ther· I nor the hon. gentleman opposite can argue about what tn fact was sct"i.d. But:: I have not had much op¢ortunjty to· say anythinq b~'!Cc\u~;c! I have nol·:. had n 1 u c h o p p o In t u n j_ 1: y , IAJ h e n I s 'l: a n d 1.: o spE•r.~k, to b(:! he;:~r·cl, so on occctston I have said things outsidE! of Uw House, and I acCE!pl responsibilit .y for that too because it relates to l:his matle:~r·.

One of the things that I have said outside the House that has not received very much publicity but I should mention because it bears on the matter, is that I haVE! said j_n i:lt 1east. t.IAJO tnl:c,,rv·tev.Js tAJ'it.:h L:hE! ·mE!dia -· I do not rE!Cal.l seeing J.t p u b l. .i. s h (! d b (~ c <?I ' 1 s n y o u cl o 1: E'! n o r' Fifteen minutes with the media and they l d k C! (:'\ rn :i. n 1.1 t 0. . ,,, n d r i r i··. ('! e 11 seconds, and you never have cont;no.l OIJC:!l" I~JI'ldi'. :i.~; going l.:o be:• publishE!d -·-but onE! of thE! t:hi.ngs th~:1·l·.

I said lo the! med'i.a, amongst other things, is that based on IAJhcl.l: T. ~)C:!C;! hc~l"C~ noiAJ I contE~nclecl there lAJas a clE!ar confJ.tct of Jnter0.s l:. au 1:. I sa ·Ld ch~arly to the media that I did not blame the Min .istPr of Hc-:!alth, I blamed the Premier. If the Premier says that is ok(:'tY, LhL'!n tAJhEll·:. I cornpli:J.i.n about is that that standard is unaccr::!pl-.abl(~. Now, 1Ed: lTIE! d(!al IAri.th t~hE! sped.fi .c facL:s as r·a"ts<:.cl by thE:! hon. l·.:he minister. He says I wa s reflect"i.ng on his conduct as a TnE!rnber of thE!

HoUSE!, and hE! refE:•r'r'E'!cl l:.o my cornment.s b(-:!·ing tn relation to his pos:l.Lion as a rn-i . n :l s L: r:! r· , d n cl t h i:·l l: :i. s q u :.l. 1:: r:• correct. I agree with him, il.: cl or: ·s l"E!I~lPcl: on hi."; conduct: a~; a Hl(•rnbc!r of lhE! HousE! tf I aclclrt:!~'; ::; l" l'~ Jn;:-\ l" k ~; i. n l" n 1 "'t i. on 1·.: o h :i. s position as a rninistE !r. He is a 1\Jo . IJ.g 1~2~)93

meHnher, and he is only a ministe!r by reason of being a member of this House. He could not retain the position as a minister for very long without being a member. So I do not quarrel with that posib.on. But, I EHnphasize, thE! stanclar·d 17.hi:'tL ·i.s set by the Pi"C o!rn:iel~. I r·eacl thE! standard in t·:he ConFli.cL of- Intei~(!S-1: Guidelines. The minister says I I~E :!fE:H'rCo!d Loa ConFlict·: of tnl.:.eres-1-· . Gu id el ine that d"id not exist. We 1 1, T '" m q u o 1: . .i. n g n o .w f i~ om The Newfoundland Gazette of December 3 1.

I 1 9 8 2 I (\ n d h l~ I~ (;~ i. s li-Ho~ c 0 n f l j_ c L of Inter·est. Guid<-:~line to IJJhich I IJJf.IS rofer·d.nq. Tl. : is No. 3 of those gu:idE:~lirws, IJJhich we1~e dated on l:h:~ 21 D<-:~cornbc=!r 1982, <:tncl :i rtd:icated as having be!en approved by thE!

F.XE~cut:·:ive Councj _1. 11 Wh i.le holdin~ office and For one year after ceasing to hold office, a l"linistE:~r, his spouSE! or rn:inor children or a body or organization in which any of them have a financial inh1rE:!St 11 - nothing about management, or involved in management or not ·- 11 shall not, without first obtaining approval of the Premier, be eligible to receive the following benefits from the Prouince:1 or a department or agency listed in the SchE!dule to Tho Conflict of Intel"es L. .. R~~gulati.ons (

i) a contl"i:,ct: for· 1--.hc:! supp1y or (:Joods o I" ~; (:! \'·· (J'.i c E:• s . 11 A 1 Co' a s e of p 1~ em i s c-:1 s F i" o rn ... , n o l.o.J n C:! I" l.: o <:' g o t; e I" 111 n c~ n l: i. ~; ''' contract For the supply of such g o u cl s o I" s (;! r· ti .i. c o. ~; . 1'1-1 ''' 1.: i. ~; 1.:1-w basi!~; of rny cont :t~'nt:i.on, that thco! ·i_nlJOl.tJ(!IIlc;!l'l'L l.:.hctl~ h."\ ~; ·l·r::t!<C!\'1 p'l.,:·\Cf'! results in a conflict of i. n l: e r (~ s '!: . 3 o 1 I. AI .i lJ. l. ('' l. l L h E! h o n . gt:!rd:l(':'rnan clr~ar·ly, if tha·t i.s not: ''' g u :i. de l .. i. n C'! r:-1 n y 1 on 9 E!

I" , s o 1 n r::• b o cl ':J had bel::Ler LelJ me because I am o p e r' a l:. i. n q u n cl C::!-1" 1·.: h e a s s u rn p L .i o n i:hat i.l: is. NOIJJ, r"lr. SpE:1i:itkE!r, Uw barE:1 facts L2S94- June 2, 1988 Vol XL that the han. minister referred to, let m~1 dE:1al. IJJith them. I JAr:i.ll indicate seriatim, because I made notes, llJhat I acC(:1pt. and if there is anything I do not accept. That he has 25 per cent interest in Terra No0a Investm6nts. no Cji\C:!St .. i.on; T c'ccnpl-.: I.>Jhat: hE! ~;ays t: o t a J. 1 y .

T h a t hE' 1 a 'i cl t h C:t t-: o t.l l· cl.c~<''i"l.y i.n hi~; Conf.li.cl:: oi-- Interest Statement in the bc~gJnni.ng, c::tnd conl:: ·i.nuc:!d to lay 'it out clearly in his Conflict of Tni:ere:~sL StdLernenL, T accupt unquestionably. I do not suggest oU·wnAri .sc. Thi:li: he i.s no longc-:~r actiue in the company, I accept t:he tn:i.nJ.st:E:1i" 1 s statc~\TIC:!nl·.: thc:-,l: hE! is no longer active in the company, and not only l::hc' l: I·H,1 is no longer active in it but that he has not been active tn the company since 1981, I think he said. MR. TULI<: 19'/9 . MR.

WELLS : SinCE! 1979. question. o t. he rw:i. s e • in HansaJ"d otherwise. I accept that without I have neuer said incidentally. Nowhere will anybody see it That he put his ownership share ir l::l"usL, ':JC!S, I hr,\H:• no doubt abo(Jt that. But t:hat cl:icl noLhing , ::Lt: is nol.: a bltnd tl"tl:>i: ~;lt-:uation. If t:hE:• rnin:l_sl·:E!r' had a SUITI of rnonE:•y l. 11'1"" '· I'll"' Cl "v l'' ;·., i· \" l\ <:· ·I··,:;,,,, .. ,, 1'1 ('I ,, 'Cl --j , ..

I- .. (. t I . .. ::J C. l •. '\ •• .. ,,, ~ ...... '-· t l ~ ~. (A • \.,J 1 1 You go and inves l :.i.l·: tn 1-\JhatevE:· r yotl IAJdn'i: ''tnd clo nol: L:E~ll ITlt'.! any t·:hing about t l:, 1 that :is i" b 1 .i. n d l i~ u s t . r h J s h c\ s n o L h :i. n g t-c do with blindness . The minister kn~>.IAJ tA.JI'JUI"e \:he inut::.s l·.rrwnt was , he knE!l.~J hE! cont:inuE•cl to hoJ.cl :Lt c.tnd, ,~( ~; h c:• s -::t ·i. cl , h e r· e c (! .i. v ('! ci I"E!ITI:it l:~a\1Cl"!S f'I"OITI t.ht=:! company, ~30 ] dccepL thi~tL . T do nol:: cha11enq~:· the rnini.stE!\~ 1 s st:atE:!\'flE:!nL .i.n t:hi:'!t. reg,:u·cl.

No. 48 R2S94

-·--- ·· ... ··--- -----···-- ...... -- ·- _, .. _ .. ~""-- -· --- .... ~··· - -· --~-· ··- ·- .... -··--·· .... --· ·--·· ·-·· -··-···---- -·-·-- ·-·· The other· one he s.:dd, as p~i"t of No. 3, was that he CElased ·to be a direclor. I atcepl the minisler 1 s statement ~ith respect to that. NOIAJ, I.•.Jh(:l n Hou s r:l if I l.: he• and can find the~! rE:~ference, P 1n e rn-.i.

E:' I" s '1:: o o cl ·i. n L h c~ indicated that he had r"l'lCe'i.IJ(!d <'ln -i.nd-i.cdt.ion fr"oln l·.he hon. 1T1ir1is l:Ell" thal: hE! had nol:hing to do with the company, was no longer involved in the rnanagem(~nt of t:he company··· t.hal: IAJas on May 26 - I drew to the Premier 1 s attention the fact that in three successive years in a row the share list said that the hon. minister was a director, and simply asked thE! Prt~mier· to chr:'ck that out. I also poi n l: e d out that there lAid s an indica ·t:ion that he tAJas a shal"ehol.der· on(! ye<'1r, dnd expressed my view that that was an <"! r r o 1n .

I a r· ·i. g .. i. n a t c~~ cl t h c~ l: h o r 1 g h l: that it lAJas an E!l"I"OI". So I as kc~lcl only that tt. be chocked or1i:.. Th<'tl. is all. I said nothing more than l~.hi'l t. N OlAI .i. I~ h cl s be c~ n Notwithstanding that lJs{:s IAJE:~re filed and vice-president or a c he c k c~ d o 11'1· .. those shc.'lre ~;igned by a dit"ector of tho compi'lny, as i.:l'lC!Y ~AI C!i"C ear;h of Lhem was signed by the rn-.intst!:'lr' 1 s O~AJI'l t.r·ustc'lf:l, Ml".

MC::!r'cer· signed the share list, and if anybody kn( :~IAJ he sho1.r1d hau<:! knot..un nevertheless, if Donald Mercer says l:hat that vJas a t.ypogr'dphiccAl error arid the minister says it was a typographical error, I accept t h a t . I d o n o t q w:~ s t i o n i. t: . A n d if they say the rnin:is ·l~er· was nol: a d:i1"ec t.oln, I haVE! no quar'rEll t.~rith il~ .. I accc~~pl: thi'lt'_, and I hc:·1UEl not sa :i d o Uw nui s E' . rhen hon. thE! l. h (! f:-() u I" t h F d c t·.: t 0 \).) h ·i. c h minister referred refers leltElln thai: he IAJrote l:o the:! ·t () 1·. h 0. L2S9S June 2, 198H Vol XL..

Pre:~mJer short:.J.y r'lfi:er thE! guidelines came into effElCt, I pi"est.Jllle sornet.Jrne i.n 1.9B2 beci:luse they carne into E!ffect in DecembE!r 1.98?., Oi'' ·tt ITlc'lY be 1981 to tAlhich he lAklS rE!ferr·ing. HE! said hE· wrote a lettor and he disclosed the share ownership. He disclosed Lhc! f<:·1ct l::hi:1t. hc:~ conl:inur:•d l:o shar'El in thE! pl"ofits and ·l:hal: t-.hr:• Premier replied !::hal:: ln his judgement it was not a conflict of interest. Now he also says the letter tAJas tabled.

I do not recall seeing it and, l:o t.he bElSt of my knot..~Jledqe, I can inform thE! hon. ministE!r now that the Clerks have advised us it lAJas not l:abled. But the hon. rninistt:lr' has undE:'I"t:c:-1ken to do ·.it., so I have no quarrel wil::h that. N UlAI, T cl o no ·1·. k n OI.;,J !;.Jh 1:~ l:: l.: h (~ 1 C:! t l·:. E! r·· s a :l d , b u t f r· om t h a t p o :i n L i n L i nt C! , oraL t.h<.·11 ··. po:'i.nl .. i.n t.iJrt(:', per·haps thE• rn:i.n:lstE!r IAJas not in confli.ct .. J hi'IVP. not SE'!Cln tho lcll·:.l::el".

J rnay be prE !pared to accept, when I SE!El U1e1t J.el.:l ·.nrn, thc1l l':hc rn:.i.nist.er· IAJas not i.n conflict; as a rElsult of hav·i .ng ~;E~en '!·.hat lel~tei" hEl '''c-1s not in breach of the letter. MR. TULK: The gu-Ldelines . MR. WELLS: In breach of the guidelines . Now, Ml". Speai<E!r, 1'1(! sc.r.l.d ... fact: n urn b c;! r· f i u e ·- h e had no p d I" t. 'i n any d:l.scussions at a gouE!rnmenta1 leVE!l or· at any oth(;!l" lE!VC'l1 as to the business that the government t;.Jas doing 1.o~Jilh that company. I have no cause to question that. I hc1VCl no basi~; For quest:.i.on :inq :.i.t..

If t:hE! m:lrl'.is+.Elr says that I accept his word, t do not question it.. ThE! that o l·~hElr' lAJ (!In l~ No. 4·8 fact he mentioned remltlancos to 1..\Ji<l s l: hc-:· R2595

minister from the company and that he may have occasionally signed a guarantee to the company 1 s lenders or bankers. If that is what the minister says , I accept it, I do nQt question it. The sixth item that he said is tha l: hE! t;..Ja s u nat~Ja l"E! oF" any dealings that any ~gents on behalf o f' Hw c om p a. n y o r t h ,~ c om p <Hl y might have had with Uw government. I acCE!p't th<:tt, 1 clo not question it.

The seventh item that he said was <.·1 ·1·. no ·U.rrlC:! ciJ.cl he tArLthdt"at..u hJ.s pet"rrd ssion thc'lt he tAJould cease to b~~ a d·iJ"ectoJ" or thu company. rr:­ th<:tt :is u.Jhdt the~ min:ist.er says, I A c c c~ pI~ .i ~~ . T do no 1: q 1.1 est·. ·i. on any one of l:hose SE!~JE!I'l facts th;:~t the'! minister has laid out. 1\J ot..u, l: h c~ rni n i. s t 1:! r j us L s R ·l. d t h '"~ t 'l:hE!r'l':! has bE!E:!n a non-accC~!ptanCE! by rnc~ of those,~ matt:c:!r's. The1t .i.s not cot"rec-t. If thE! ministE!r had that impression bli:~fore, let mE~ d.isabusc,~ him of that impress ion now.

There has been a total acCE!pt.ance by me of those facts claimed by the rninistE!r'. MR. PATTERSON : Too JaLE!. Yen~ have c~lr'E!ady donE! the,~ clarnc-lg~~. :vlf?. ~3PEAKI::.R : Oi"clei", plE:!ase! Ml~. liiJFI I...S: NOtAl, Mt". Spec:·1ke1", J.nL mE! ·i:oll yotl thdt in light of all those facts, And Jn li.ght of Lite Pre:Hn:i.C!1" 1 ~; ~;t<:J.t.<->.menl:s ·to th:i.s HouSE! in thE ! 1. ;:-1 s I: F H t;..J d c't y ~; L h i:1 L h (=! cl i d no L g .i.

IJ C:! l:l·1e hon. mernb<~!l" any 1E•t.LE!r tAJhE!n t:husu nC:!\J.J l.er:-1ses tJ.J~)I" 'C ! :;Jgnc:!cl ;:qnd IJ.J h l:! rt l~ h H 0 ]_ d ). (,1 1:1 S (~ ~) 1,11 E~ I" (.;!

I" (:' rt 1.':' tAl (;! cl h e cl i. cl n o t g L IJ (=! a ~; p c:! c J f -L c l. (! l: 'l:. e i" in that l"E•spect, based on -Uw Pt"E!tni(~r 1 s s tatem( :!nl ~s and <;1SSUI"di1CI.':' L2596 June 2, 1988 Vol XL to thi.s House that h<->. did not, I say that the minister continuing to have that financial interest in that company, and that company continuing to benefit from those lease contracts wjth the g o v E:! r· n me n t , c I" e a t C! :; a c o n f 1 :i c t. of interest. And it is rny submiss-:i.on, Mt". Speak~==•l", l .. hat_ l.:haL conflict of interest sLill ex :i. s l~ s .

N OlJ.J, t h r· o u 9 h out. . l~ h j_ s , I have said nothing more than that. Now, nothing the hon. member has sai.d t.:oday has caus10cl me to change that. I should say to him, ~;'.in c: or C:! 1. y , T ~; <:·1 y t h ·i. :> 1:: o h :_L rn to~,J i t~ h utmost sincerity, I cou1d on1y h i-1 lJ C:! IAJ i. :; h e d L h i't 1-. h f'! ci C:! l. J l) (:~ I" e d SOME HOI\J. MEMB E I~S : o 1~iT __________ _ MR. SPEAKER : Or ·cl r:!l", p1<:!i:1se! MR.

WELLS: I co u 1 d--on l y havE' wi s hE! d that he woul.d have put fot"t~o.Jard some facts, some basis, on which I could withdraw my opinion that there was a conflict of interest in the present circumstances. Unfortunately, I cannot, and I say to you, Mr . SJ:H:~aker, that that dous no +: .con:: ;tjtute the ld .ncl oF libel or improper statement to L.uhich thE! rn:inist E!r l"efet~I"E!cl and on IAJ h .i. c h l:·. h C:! rn J. n "L s 1:: I:! I" ·i. s b a s .i n <3 h ··(. ~=; p o :1. n -l: o F p I" j. v i 1 E:! g e . B e c a u s ~=! I , i:'.l ~:; 0 p p o :; i. t.

"i. o n L n i'1 cl C! 1" , o I" •. ·\ n y o L: h e r mE!tnbE·r· of ·this Hous1:! but: l-:hE=· 0 p p o :; · i. t _j_ o n j, n p dl" t. :i. c 1.1 1. e~ r· , ITI u s i: have thE! right to COITITTIE!nt on p II b l i c ·L ~; s 1,1 (! :; . T h j_ :; :i. :; i:·1 pub l "i. c man, a minister of this go v C! r· n rn (! n I: , 1~1 h o h i"l :; i: h d t. ·i n l·~ C! I" e s l:: :1. n l~ h a L corn pan y Lui t h ,,~, h ·i c h thE~ go'JC!i"rtrrten t· . . i.s cl(~i'11-.i.nq on c1 J"t:!qu!. 6\r' I . I t I . I I :) a ~; ·1 s e v E! r y y e a I" a n c .. o l>~J '1 1. c ·1 l: ·1 e CJOlJi:!l"niTJC:!I'l't:.

"i.~;; pdy i.nq l'lt:!dl"l.y $500,000 in rental. No. 48 R2596

"' SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPF.:AKER: Order, pl.ea~ ;o! Ml(. ~~E L 1_~3: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . NoL1J, Ml". Sp~~cd<E!r', on t.ha-t. basis, unl.C!SS lAJC! i~trC! goJng 1·.o dCo!S'li"OY democracy, eliminate the role of the Opposition, prE:went gotJE!rnmc:!nl from ever be!:ing criticized for improper behaviour, there is no brE!ach of privilege and can bE! no br·E:~ach of pr·iv ·i.lE!9(:' ba s("•d on L•Jhat I have just said. That is the basts for· it.. What l am t.allcing about, Mr . Speaker, its soJ.E! and only basts - I have accept:ed all of the othE!r facts - is the• fact t h a t l:: he rnt n is t E!

I" con l:. J n u E:~ s t. o have the financial interest d( o!sc rib (:'d :in Gu:td(;~ ·u .rH :' No.3, l::I·Jc:! government continues to do bus -L n C:! s s lAJ:i. t. h t h lo! corn p i'l n y i'l n d enter into lease contracts wjth 1:he company, and thE! hon. t:lH~ Pl" emier has not given letters ~;pc~ciFJcully excepl:.i.ny l·:hi'll'. T.n lhose circumstances I sc:1y, and lhi.s i.s +:h e sole ba sts of ·i.i:, the minister is in br·each of the gwi.clel. :i.n es . If le H :(:'r's had bc!rHl g :i v (! n b y L h '~ P ~~ (! 1 n ::l. r:!

I" I t..1J o u J. d ··i. n s t e c·l cl b (~ s i:l y ·.i. n g , ;:~ ~; T cl.i. d sub slan t:ially ou tside the Hou se , l:: h d i:. T cl o n o t I" c:! c:l -, J. 1J b ·1. d 1 n e L·~ h c:• mi1lis ter; if l:hE! Pl"<: !rni E!l" ta kc-?.s the position that Lh is ·Ls ok 0y, and pal"ticuJ.al"lY whE!n hE! l·:akE !S the p o s i 1:·-.i o n t h a t t. he b l. ct n k C.;! t l. E! 1: t e ,, hE! gave ·thE! m:i.nistE!r in thE! beginning continue s for' eVE!r and he can E!nter int:o aJ.J t:.hE! contracts hE:! IAJa n t s , t: h a l: t h a t~ i ~:; a b J. an k E! t.

E!X ernpU .o n, then it is the PrE!rnier who has soJ.e responslbillty for it. But in minister letter, 1..2r;97 c J. r' c u rn s !·.:a n c E'! s t~.J h (;! r· ~=! t~ h e shou1d haVE! goU .:en a T. s <:'1 y a 1 s o , M r' . 5 p ~~ a kc ;! r , June 2, 1988 Vol XL based on that cJrcums t:ancc~ alone, I suggest that the mj .nister is in b l" e a c h of t h e ':3 t.lt d e 1 t ·n c~ s . T h i=' t i s - the sole basis for it. I say, Mr. ~ p e i'l. k E! i~ , t hal t h a 1: c i'ln no 1: p o s s :i b 1 y constitute a breach of privilege.

NotAl, the FinaJ. cornlli E!I1'Ls of Lh E! hon . ln·.i.n··i. sl:::!i" t.~J I:!I" l:! l ... i'lo:'l t:. he ha ::; be E!I1 in !:his Hou se Fol" tl ·,i. r·tco!E: !n IJC!di"S, he:! hd~> bE:!E'!n d nl-:i.ni sl·:.E:!l" for' nine years, he is u·s ed to bare~nuckle politics, that there were six Opposition Leaders befor shand and he never had any problem before except with thi s d'isgust:i.ng behav'iotH' that h1 ~ attributes to me. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hc~~ar, heclr'! Mf,. WELLS: HE! then condE!rnns me, Ml".

SpE!akE!I" , For ITlaki.ng L h e~ ;e st.i 7tl:emc;•nl :s Lvl-1 :ich I d·.id in tl-,e d.ischat"~J E! of rny du ty d s I. u '"~ d E! l" o f t. h e 0 p p o s .. i. l·: . .i. o n , IJJ h i. c h was my respon sib ility to do and continues to bn my responsibility . That 1n c~ s p o n s ·i. b :i.ll. I.IJ i ~; no l.: d ··.i. rn i. n i s h E! cl by reason of my being attacked . II e the n c .1. a :i. m ~; MR. Mf.HTHEL'IIS : Expose your own confli ct . MR . WELLS: Yo11 Cdl'l hf:!c:-\1"' Lhr:! Grand Bank (Mr . rrn. 1'1 .1. S l::e In MR. MATTHEWS : han. member Matthews) A pojnt of order, Mr. Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER: Or·clc'!r', pl eaSE!! ,-'i" Ul" t.h (• 1!11 ~'! a r' <:! d E' a J . .i. n g lAd. t: h r" p o :i n t o F priujlege at the moment. MR. WfLLS : Now, Mr . Sp( ,~a!<E!r', he l:h( "! l'l m a I((: ' s No. 48 R2S97

1-:he falsc~1 st.('\tements thr.tl7. I Failc-:!d to meet the requirements of The Conflic-t of Inl(:1resi: ~ct, tht-\l I failed ta -··disclose. And that, Mr. Speaket", is tot.ally wrong and totally false. The s:i.n1plE! fact: "is, Mt". SpE!akE!I", 1 havE'! c/ol.sclosl:!d ptc'l"hi;tps rnot"E! fully l:han any olhE!r singJ.e mmnber of thJ~; House .in my ConfJ.:ic l:: of Interest statement. That is the tr·u ·th of 11:. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! Ml~. SP[AI<ER: 0 t•· d tH' , p J e a s E! ! MR. ~'-'EI..LS: That. is thE~ tr·uth oF :it. MR.

DINI\J : It :is '"''hat you left out lhat is :Ln l:C!I"(:!S ling, MR. ~'-'F.:I.LS: Now, Mr. Speaker, I am going to table my Conflict Interest statem<-:lnt on tJ.Jhich I have written exactly tJJhat tJJas rE~fE!r'r·ed to I~JhE!n I said: 11 There are other financial interests, but none that has done, does or might do businE'!SS lo~J:ith the <jOV('!i'""l"llnE!Ill". .. 11 SOME HON. MEMBERS: In your opinion .

Mi~. ~3PEAI<EI~: CkdE:!r, plE!aSE!! r.IJR. li·lEI.LS: On lt :r havE· tJJritten exactJ.y u.Jhat lA!i:1S in conte111p l1:1 1-. i.on lAJI·wn I IAli"Oh~, 11ThE'!I"e ar'E! othE!r' int<:!r'E!St:s bu ·L nunc ,! jn l"c~spc:!ct·. of IAJhi.ch thet'C! ·i.s c::t possjbi1J'l..y of confJ.j.ct of -i 1'1-l':~:!r~r.:!S t_, 11 SOMF 1101\J, MEMBERS : Tel1 us about your salary . L2598 Jurw 2, 1988 Vol XI. MR. SPf.~KF.:R: Order, please! MR. WELLS: Mr.

Sp~1aker, I r·ernind Your Honour that the whole of this sjde of the HoUSE! sat qu:i.1:d:ly tJJhile thE minj_s"l:E!r madE! thoSE! sl:c:d.:E!ITIE!I'1t.s anc s l.: d t. u d h i s posit :i. on , and I t.uo 111 c l:J.kE! thE~ SaiTle COUI""l<:•sy. Aft.E:!I' t.hat: hon. rn~~rnb<'!rS cc:tn say t;..Jhat they like, and I am prepared tc let · the electorate of this Province judge. MR. SPEAKER ·: Or·der·, pleaSE!! MR. WELLS: NotAl, Ml". SpE!ak(c1r', this is IAJhat the hon. "l:he i>i"c:! s Jclc:! n l:. of the Co1.1 n c "i.

J IJJ a ITlc:! cJ l: 0 hear and asked me lc I" C! i'\ cJ 0 11"1: , 11 Th~!rE! ar'E! other :interE!St.s but none Jn l"e~;pE!C'i: . oi :~ to~Jh· .i.ch thr:!t"(! .is a possibility of conflict of tnter·es-1::. 11 T lAlrot(~ that tJ.Jhc :'!l'1 I could have simply said no, a:: evt:!r'y othc~~r hon . member· in this House did. I could haue! saic ther·~1 tJJas none, But, Mr . retirement Speaker, savings I have plan . c ~ i~Hg.l.sl:". c'!I"U d f\E!Liremr:•nl.·. ~:3.~:1vinqs Plan, that is to~Jhat I havE :!. Anc t h i:'l l7. t s a n o t h <~~ r· t n t. E! r· E:! s t . SOME HON. MEMBERS: H e <:~. r· , h e i:'l r' ! MR.

WELLS: 3ut +·hei"C i.~; no poss: .i.bi .lit :y of c o n f 1 i c t . W h a t t h E! g u i d E' 1 t rw a s k ~ Js l·.o i"t:!pOi"t 1'Rny ol::hc:•r ·inter' E:!St ., not specifically referred La ir 1: h .i. ~:; pi'""(! c c~ cl 1. n g ·i. n ~> t I" 11 c t: :i on , 1o~1 h .L c /· you, youl" ~;pouSE! or' any of your 1 n ·i n o i" c h L J d i" t-:! n h ,~, ~; o I" 1.\J i 1 l <:l c cpri. I" c= as a r·esult of" t..\Jh:ich l::h1:'J"t :! j_s <' po~;:;.i .b .i.J.:.Lty or conr~J.-.:i.cl:: of intE!rE!St. 11 No. '1-8 R2598

··--- ___ ... _ .. .-..---·--- · ~·----·-- - - - -- - - -.--- -- -·- - - - - Not..u, Mr. Speaker, there is no possibility of conflict of interest with my Retirement ~3 a u i n g s P-'fa n . T l: ··i. s d I~ e g i s +.: e r' e d Retirement Scluings Plan. Euery rn c~ m l:l o i" o r:- l. h L :; II o u s o , o i" IJ _i. r t u a l. 1 y l'!UE-Jl"Y nrE!ITibBl" of Lhis House, Mr'. ;-) p e lq k (~ ,... ' h •'\ ~; c':' !~ fo! (:1 .i. s t c:• i" 0 cl 1\ ('! t· :i r' o r11 e n t :3 a u .i rr g ~; P 1 a n . B u t t: he I'· C j_ S 110 l: 0 l'l C 0 (' '\.:hE! I'll J. j_ S -l: E! d .i. 1.: on . -t:Jr(~!

Conflict of Intel"es"l: s l.a l.:elOC:!Il L. MR. SIMMS: Now, you are wrong again there . MR. ~'JELLS: Well, there may be one . MR. DAWE: Everything is qualified. M R . ~'II E L L. S : It i.s not qualifiE:!d . That is all lhetl :. t>.Jas :in conl::('!rnplat:ion, and t.hE! answer is still totally correct, was more correct than most members 1 , becauSE!, Mr. SpeakE!r, it is spelled out: clE:~i.'lrly t:.hi:lt oth(:~r interests did exist. rhat -.i.s tAJhat l-:l·w hon. mc:!rnber·s IAJC:!rE! talking about. And there were, Mr. Speaker, three other things, cHl d he l" e they a r' e .

T hi s i s what IAJi:lS .i.n i.:he r·i i"S t.: CI'IC!. ·nwy do no L alllount, :in total, ·to $2~=1,000, but I 1.11 .i. l.l i·: C:! l.l. you '"' h a 1: 1: h C! y d r c . 0 IJ r:! l" I: h (! J. 1-1 S t ~~ h r· I'! C! 0 I~ f 0 I I (' y U i.1 l" S I i·ri~I.Uf::! pai"'Lic:.i.patE:'d with ninE:! other people, who got together and prE:d:c:!l'ldE!cl IJ.JE! knetAJ SOTTIE!thing about 1-.: hE! 1Tli':1 r' k e t I d n cl E:~ a c h 0 n ('! 0 r u ~; p '-' l.: in $100 a month for· a t..uhile and .i.nv(=!s l::E!cl :i.n an .i.nVE!S L1nent. club. T h at ·i s w h a t i t. tAl a s .

A n d tAJe l::i'l0Ll(jhl: I.1.JE' kl'l( "'IAJ SOiflE:' ·l:h:i.ng about: the market, and all of us haue 1 o s t: rno n 1:' y consist E! n l~_l y o u E! t" 1:·. he thr·ee YE!dl"S. So that :is om• of the o t:hel" .i.·tc'!i'flS . L2599 June 2, 1988 Vol XL There were two other items, Mr. Speaker. A 2 per cent interest :in a partnership that owns·a MERB.' I 'il'lvc ,~sl::e d ·i.n ;:-1. MF.l~B c:1nd T i.nuested in a flow ---through shar·E:~. MR. WINDSOR : No ·1: h .i. ng MEI~B! Lo clo IAJ:Ll:h gol.JE!I"'l'lii'IC'!I'1l:., M R . lrJ E L I S : J\Jo, :Ll: h;:-1s nolhj .n9 L:o do lALi-th government.

There is no problem t..u·i.t h thaL. It ha~; no poss'i.b:ility of conflict. But I did discJ.oSE! the fact that they were there. Not..u, Mr. SpE!aker, that is all t:hc:!r'e -Ls. Thc=!r'(:' .Ls nothing c,~lstO!. There are no deep, dark secrets thi:ll'.: the hon. gent.J.E•rnen IAJant.. I haue neuer heard the hon. lady o p p o s i 'l:: c,~ E:~ x p r' o s s a n o pi n :l o n , s o I exempt hE! I" from :i. t.

But at Jeas t fOY' l'fldny of l:.he hon. 9E!I"'tlell'181l opposite, t..uho haVE! bE!E!Il making th1:!se unfounded dllE!gat ::ions -that I have not bE!en rE!porttng fully and pr·op<.·H"ly ltke oUwr· rnernbEH'S haue, it is too bad, Mr. SpeakE!r, that i.t i.s i'l::: si.lnph! c:qs i.l: is. SOME HON. MEMRERS: Oh, oh! ~H~ . S P ::: A I< E R : Ol"dE!l", pleaSE!! Ml~. SIMMS: r: l: h ''' ~; no l~. h J. n (:J l:o clo 11.Ji i~h governrnc:!nt! MR. WELLS: 1 l:. h a s n o l~ h -:i. n g 1.11 h d t ~; o Eo! u E'! r' 1-: o d o IAJ:ith gouernmE!nt. TherE! ar·e no cl E~ a l.

"i. n g s t.~l"i. t h r~ o u or· n rn E! n t. . r he r' 1:' :is no possibtlity of conflict. PREMIER PECKFORD : Most. oF thc:•sE:! cornpan i.:C!S dt:!al IAri. th mining. ThE!l"E• has l::o bt:! -~l poss·i.bili.l:y. No. Ll-8 R2 599

--- -·-- --........ -- ~ ...... ~- -... ........ ____ ... _.., ~-- · ... -·--- --·.;'--- -·--- ·- -· MR. WELLS: I have no problem tJJith it, but it has no possib:i.l."'i.ty of e1 conFl:lct of inter~~~. I do not have shares i.n any rrdning compdny. I J·H·we shares in a partnership that ·.inVE!Sts i.n thE!SE'! m"i.n-i.ng companies. That is it, Mr. SpE'!dkE!I~. Now, Mr .

Speaker, the hon. ge!ntl~1man, before he sat down, aJ.so made some scurrilous reHnarks about what he claimed was impropriety on my part, and my unfounded allegations, and how wrong it was for m~~ to makE! these s l:aternen ts. 1\JotAJ I r~~fc:~r th~1 han. gE~ntlemt::'n to his s·tatennent in this House on ~pri.l 22, when he was talking ctbout my being paid a Sc'll.di"Y, wh .. ich ·i.nci.d(~l'll:al..J.y, Mi". SpC"!i:tkE!I", is etlso disclosNI in The C o n f 1 .i. r; t o f I n 1: e I" (:! :; 1 ·. S L:'~ t. L:! rn e n L , t.ul·lj.Jc:~ tl·1r::~ Pt"emiE!I" 1 s is not. SOME HON. MEMBFRS: Hear, hE!c:\r! MR.

WELLS: While the Premier 1 s mentioned, mine is. MR. SIMMS: Your st.at.c:'ITlE~1·1t, I;.Ji1l yo1~ for· us? MR. WELLS : lr.J h f:• I" (! .l. S ~AI h i3. l: '? 1"'1R. SIMrJJS: Youl" salary s t:. at·.: l'! rnl:! n t . MR. WELLS : [f you got because it is Ml\. :3H~MS: discJ.osed j.t l:hel"(c~, lhE!rC"!. is no I: rE!ad it in your· I"(~ <:'1 cl it, Tl ju ~;l: says you h<'lcl "i. n t·. u I" o ~; L i n the I_ i. b ('! i" <:-1 l a f:i.nancJal Pi'1 i"t.y . MR. WEI..I..S: L2600 June 2, 1988 Vol XL rl: say:.> that 1 arn an empJ.oye<,~ of the Liberal Party. MR. SIMMS: An r:~mployer·. MR. WELLS: There is an relationship.

I l~. employer/employee is Lhere. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. WELLS : The~ hon. ~he minisl:er who just spoke, Ml". Speaker, said this - MR. MORGAN: Ct:·11l R<:!Venue Cani'~cla . MF~. !JIJEI...LS: - 11 Ther'E! is a LE:!I"ITI of Lhat; L E! !'' rn :i. s c; <'I 1 .l C:! d 1 l. d 1.1 n d c~ r· in g 1 • can launder rnonE!Y. 11 And hE!

Ol:hc:~l" SCI .Ir'r'i.J.OIIS st.~=tt.E'!IrlE!I'1L~;. [·:. h (: You madE Now if hon. members do not kno~ ·IAJhc:tl: la1tncler·tng mo<:1ns, tt rnee1ns, for E!Xarnple, drug pushers in the United States rnay get rnoney illegitimately and they want tc usE:~ some:1 of th(:' rnorwy ·to pay off police officers . These were th E stc~LC'!IriE•nts 1nade by l:hc, hon. minis-l:E•r, who stood t.uJt:h suci- SI::!lf -.. l" 'ighl~ousnu!>S ind:iqnat:·.:i.on a few moments ago and made those r:·1l.l~::~gdt:i.ons. i'hdl. hon. lntn _Ls c.C"!I"! ThE!Y alnE! totaJ.J.y falSE!. Tota11~ false sta-l.c~rnents. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

SPE:Al\ER : Oi"dGi", ple.:ts~:·! · Ml~. ~.IFLI...S: No~1, Ml". SpeakE!r', I submit clE:'arl'l t·.h;:~l : i:h(:!rP. has b('!nn no bt·e1:-1ch oi~ No. 48 R2600

1: .. -·"'··-· --- -~ -···"· -- ..... -.. -· ·--- ·----···-- ·- -- --- --·---· privilege and no prima facie cause for pr·ivilege has been made out. As I stated at Uw otrb>et, I tJ.Jill ask thE! House Leader to dE:1al with thE?. refE!t'E:1nces to Beauchesne. T hank yo11. PRFM[ER PECKFORO: 1'-11". SpeCJ.kE!I" . M R . !3 P E A K r:: R : Th~'! hon . the PlnC'!mier. PREMIER PECKFORO: This is a very of b 11 s 'in e s s , r.lfr . interesting Speclker . piece AN liON. MEI'-1BER : Yc~s, indeed.

PREMIER PECKFORD: It ·is sornE:1hOto~J in t.he Le<:tckH' of trw Opposition's rnind that hE! can decide upon t h E:1 k i. n d of r· u 1 E! s and then decide upon how one is to JnteqH'E!t thr :1tn. All I say to l·:hE:' LeadE!r of the Opposition on thE! . point of privilege~ is that i.n the view of this sidE! of the House, he has infr·ing:::!d . upon t.hl:' pr·iuJl.E:19lc!S of the Deputy Prerni~r and Minister of 1-il:'dlth (Dr. Col.li.ns). ThE!Y'e:1 i.s no question about it! The innuendo that h~s been go ing dCI"O~>s th:i ~; l·louSl"! ouf:!l " th~:!

J.a;;L n1 .11T1bei" oF IAJE:!ek :; hds :-i.rnp .. i.ng r:!d llflon the pr:ivl.1 c:19E! S of t.hE• hon . the D 1:! p 1 1 'l'. y

I) I" H rn :i. E:! r· . Lei: Lh( :! tne ~:~ i.'l y L: 0 OpposJ l:j .on thr:• hon. IAJhat: '.i~; l.t~dciC!i" or Si:WCe fotn i:hl'! goo sn -L: :~ S i:,LICC :~ F'otn the gandetn. The:! Leaclet" of thE:' 0 p p o s L t 'i. o n c d n n o 1:: g e 1-:. 1.1 p i n t h -i s Hou sE! and stat' "L rnaldng 'innuendo at one rnernber on thl .s si.de of the Hou se and not expect us to then - MR. MORGAN : Not. gluE'! it: to h:i.1n . PREMIER PECKFORD: L2601 JunE! 2, 1988 Vol XL .... 4-·----··· -·· "··- --- -.o·--- ... ---- ·---·- ·· ... --·--- ·-.... --·-·- .... Ye:1S, Mr. SpE~akc:!r'.

Hr:~re:! hr:' 'is noiAJ in the House telling us about what ol:her· f·.i.m:lncic"ll '.i.nlE!rE:1sts he ·hc-xs - that he would not put on his Confl.tcl:: of Tntr~re s t St.atern~::~nt; he decides what can be put in hjs Confli ct of Inl :er E=!S l: ~3ta t E!I'nC :1nt :; hE! dE~cidE!S what cannot bE! pul·: Jn h:i~:; c o n f 1 ..i. c 1: o r~ T n ·1-E! r· c s l:: ~3 l: .::t 1-e rn e n L ; h (! dii:,finE!S IAJhat launciE!rin~J rnc '•a n ~::, and thE!I'l gor!~; on from thE·I"C:! l:.o <.'tccuse t h e D E:! p 1.1 t y P I" E:11Tri C:! r· .

I have not SE!E!I'l anything J.JkE~ :it s i. n c e I h i'llJ c:~ b e e n t n i: h e H o u s e , Ml". SpeakE!r, thE! hypocrisy l:hat thi .s hon. •:~entlE!ITlt'ln is sho1JJ..-i.ng to the people of Newfoundland. I said in this House one afternoon a FE~IAJ tJJeC::,ks c:~go, :i.l 7 hE! is qoJng to start spreading innuendo acros s l:hE~ HOUSE! Rt I:J·1e hon. l·:he ITlin-.i.s l::r:!l~ and D~::~put.y PI"E'ITdE!I"', t.abJ.E! you1" you Ci;tnno 1:: go hal fiAJay, 1"''i" . ~1pE!akeln. You cannot go haJ.fL1Jcty :i.n l::h'.is rncll::tC'!r'. '[f the->. L.eadE!r' o·F Lhr:>.

Opposition is going to continue to dtt.ack l::he Dc->.puty PrE!rnlE:H' and other ministers here who have put shr:unE:1~> Jn l·:r·ust and t~.Jho haVE! disclosed that in a Conf1ict of Inl.:c:!resl: St< :,ternt~nl~.. IJ.Jho haVE! written me on it to meet the g I I i. d e J l. 1'1 e:' S i·: h i'l i~. IJ.J (.;! l" r:~ t h E:' ln E! , i. f h (~ .:i. ~' ~~ o :i n g l:: o t a k e t h d t a 'L t·. <3. c I< ·i n t-. h i ,, I I 0 II~ ; C! 0 i" 0 II 1. :; i. cl ~! l: h oi.~: ; H 0 u ~:; ~:! ' thE!n he: ! has to be:' squcc!aky clE !an, ~:; o l n 1· h i rn l: ~'t b J.

C! h -j ; ·i. n c o 1 n (' t·. ,J >( lnEd :urns for last YE!iH ' and I t~r t 11 t· ;:., b I <-:! 111. i. rw . 'r' u 11 c C:-Hll'lC t: go h a 1 f WclY. SOMF HON. MEMBERS: I lear, hoar! PREMIER PECKFORD: r.il y poi n t , M r . S pea k E· I" , o n t h e p o ·i. n t o r p r· :i. v i J. E! g E:! .i. ~:; y o u c a n n o t: sudd E!n1y nar·rot.~.J 'it: t:o IAJha t you tAJa n t·. l: o c1 (!fine as an i.t" 1" t::' g u 1 etl" cl c t:. by somebody in this House . No. 48 R2601

MR. SIMMS: Unless you are God. PRfMifR PECKFORD: UnJ.oss you arco~ OlflnJpoh·)l'lt, you cannot. I·t br:ings into qUE!Slion Lhe:~ IAJholc~ -.inb~gr·:i.l- .y oF all. tnembE•r's of Lhis House. You just cannot SE!l(!C"t: . .i.v~~ly t.r'IJ l.:o '-'.JE:!a~;E:!l y·oUI" '-'.Ji :~y in to brjng discredit upon one ITIE!mbc.;!r of" thE'! HousE:~ and t~hen l::hC"! whole governmE!nt. When you do that, Mr. SpeakE:H', you have to be wi 11 i ng, the Leader of the Opposition has t.o be willing, to come totally cJ.ean himseJ.f. That is the nature of the way this process works, Mr. Speaker.

Now, the Deputy Min:i.st.E~r of IIE~dlt.h :in tl"USt WhE!I'l "!:he i n . ~~ h o b I" o u g h 1~· i,.,, Ml" . SpE!aker? 9 I I :i. cl e l. .i. 11 E! S IAl h ::! n I. E:!ddE:!I" of l~hc"! c'11 " 0 I I n cJ y (~ i:tl" S i:l tj 0 ? MR. ~3TMMS : PrE!lTdE!r and p11t hi.:; shares gujde!l"i.nE!S carne the guidc:!l. ··i.nr o'~' WE:'rE! thel"E.~ any lhro~ hon. l:h1:! Opposition was No, s:i.Jn. TherE:~ IJJelne not. PREMIER PECKFbRD: WE!I''O Mr . Di.d thE!re gu:idel i.nes i.'li"OIInd U1e:H1, Speaker, when he was around? thE:~ hon. LE:~Rcler of the Opposition, when he· was Minister o f L a b o u I" , s a y L o L h ~=!

P r' e rrl"i . <:! I" o f the:! day 'WE! have to br:.Lng in Con ·f 1. .. i. c t of I n t E~ r' C:'! s t. G u ·i d E! l.i n e s for me and our other ministers, because I canneL stay in thls kind of a government unJ.ess we have all o f t~ h e s e Co n f l.i. c t o F 1 n 'tc,~ r ':' s t a n d Ministers' GuideJ.ines?' Mf~ . SIMMS : No. Not i'l chan ceo' .

P r~ r:: r"l·r: r:: r~ P ::: c 1< r: o 1 ~ o : Mr· Speclker, suddenly now he l"~ o!SIIi"I"\O!CL·.s h i.IIIS f:!lF d~: i'1 l" E• 1"1 i:t is s iHI c E! , i n L he h on . rn Eo! rn b E• 1n ' s 1ntncl, he~ -Ls I"C:!bor·n dqa_i_n i·:o bn L2602 June-?. 2, 19H8 Vol XL sorn~~th·i.ng cl"i.Ffel"ont th•HI I·H~ t~.ms fifteen Ol" twenty years ago. What a d"l s plr'IY, Ml". Speak r~r! ·The Minister of Health, thE! OE:~pu t_y Pr"emier, Foll .OIAJed Rll the guidelines, and in thE! samE! tAJay a~ : the I_E:!r:1d(!r ' o·f Ll· ·,u Oppos:i.l:. . .Lon us::! d a technicality not to disclose all o·F hi .s inl ··.eJ"E!St~; i.n l.:hE:!

Confltci·: of In-t~elnE!SL Stat~elTIE!l1t, hE! :i s us:i.n~. a technicality on Lhe Deputy PrE!rnier. MR. SIMMS: Exactly! PREMIER PECKFORD: It is a VE!ry tidy, sJ.ick way, Ml". Speaker, to try to discredit somebody who is beyond reproach a~ ""i.t I"E!1ai·.es l".:o h·-t.~; honE~s ty and h .i.s intE!gl"i ty. SOME HON . MEMBERS : ------ ------- Hei'1r' rH :~ai''! PREMCER PFCKFORD : 1'-11". Speaker~, lE?.t us just I"E!ViE!L\ '"J hat +-. h o 1_ o i.~ cl E~ r' o F t h C! 0 p p o ~; ""i. t ·i o r said and just shotAJ holAJ slick :it :is. IIE:~I"CO! ··i.~; Lhc~ sl"i.cknc:!s~:; of it, Ml".

SpeakE!r', and Uw LE!adE!r of thE Opposition cctnnot get away wit~ it, the slickness of it all. ThE M-LnishH' of Hr -:!al.l:.h, thE'! De put~ Pl"E•nder - hr:• L\J c1S not Deput: , Pr'ern-ier' t:hen, he L.l.Jds i'VIin .Lsl: t::;J" o·l· F]nance, I gUE!SS -· disc:losod E!VE~I ".) y H r:t r· h u h ;:'t d l:. h .i. ~; i. n t e I" (:;! s t. :i n t: h " company. HE! d-.iscJ.osNJ :it:, un1:.i.kc t h e L E! 01 d e r' o f L h e 0 p p o s ·.i l:. i o n 1.u h c did not disclose his MERB. The M i n .i. s t e I" of F i n a n c E! , o r' t h E~ rn c:! 'n b e r for St. John's South, E!VE!ry YE!ar d-i.sclosed :i. t.:.

Al.l. thE! peopl e! of NE!IAJfoundland could see! it IAJi:'l~ cl :L s c l o s (:'' d f o r' p u b 1 .i c c o n ~: u m p t :L o n . ThE'!rl, tAJhE'n 1 bl"ought .i.n nt:•t, 9 ii:l. cl E~ ]. oi. /'H:' S f 0 I' 11r i. n :i. S i::fH' S , h ('! l.'.Jr' 0 t.: (' Jfl<::! --· hei"E! :.Ls t·:.he 1l~!l-.·.I.E!I", and "I IM.i.l.l l.:r'tb] c:! 111y I"C•spon:;e l.:u h:.Lrn and put it in trust. No. 48 R2602

,_ ... ---- ·--·--- ·---···...Lo.-- ..... .. ______ .. _ .. ___ ~- - - ..... -.; .... ___ , .. ___ __ -- ... __________ ____ -~-·- -.. -- Now, what the Lead~1r of the Opposition is saying is that that is no ·t good enough, .bc-:1causr:! each time that ·co mpany LAJent out to rent space, he did not IAir'itc~' R letter euery time. But when the Minister of Fi.nance, then l:he Tnl'!rnbc'!r' ·for· St. John' s South pu t it· . in tn1st, he h t'l d r1 o rno t" C'! l:: o do wj . l·. h l· h C'' company so, therefore, how could he:!

I.!.Jl"-i.-1:~::1 lfll '! r.t J.et.'l:lo!l" on ec:-\ch one'! 1..uhen he did not know anything a b o 1.1 l: "i. t ? l h i:'l 1:. .i. ~> 1 .. h e s J. 'i. c k n e s s ! That is the sllcl<noss! SOMF. 1-101\J. MF.MBF.R~3 : Hear, hE!al"! P ~~ EMT ER PECKFOfW: T h a t j s t. h C-:1 s l i c k n E! s S ! T h E! s a lTH~ l.l.J a y J r"l r' . s p E~ t'l k ('! I" J t hi'\ L h 1':' u s (~1 d that slickness on his own conflict of· .i.ntc~1r'<=!sl:: ci .. LscJ.ost.lr'o. li'~ I.ISt:!d il:. HE! LIJoulcl decidE!! ThE:!re is a P r' o u l ~; .l o n i n 1:. h E!

C o n i::-1 .i c L o f IntE!rest -· oh, yes, hE! is technically, lc~1gc:'1.1ly con'E!Ct, Mr. SpE!aker. Oh, YE!S, there is no question about that. You cannot take him to court. He is tE!Chnlcally, Jegi:'tl.ly CCHTCo!Ct, but the whole spirit and intent of the Conflict of Interest legislation was full disclosure, and all rnernbers of the House know that. So .i.l:. is through this uer·y ~:;l:i.ck, l:<:!Chntc;,,l IAli:~y ..... l:·.hu l'llC'!fllb<:!i" 1·7 oi" ;3t.:.

J o h n ' s ;3 o u t· h c o ul d n o L 1..11 r· '.i h! a n y !TIO r' e l. c~ l-: L E! 1" s be c r:-1 '' s (' he h c:-1 cl p 11 l­ h j s rno n E' y , h ·:L ~; s h a In E' s :.L n l':. i" us t i::\ n d sornr:!I:JOc.ly ul::;c;! lookc:!d aF·ll':!r' Lh0111 F o I" h ·.i rn . H Cc' cl:i. d no r: k n ot..>.J LIJ hat the cornp<:·1ny t~JC:IS c:lo ·i.ng, <;o ho1.\J cottl.d he write any more leLters? It. is b e c a 1 1 s C:! h l'! tAl a s s u d r:-1 ,.. n h o n C! s :: i n l:l·tE' beg::i nntr1g, to get : out of thE• COIIlpdny i'•\nd gil.JC!

LhE! shdi"OS l·.o ~:;ornebody eJS(! to J.ook afl..E!In fOI" h·iln, thdl: h('! :i.s 'i.n !~rouble t:oddy, according to Lhe Leader of the Oppos·:i Lion . MR. Sirllf\o1S: L2603 JunE! 2, 1988 Vol XL That i s t' i g h ·t . He is too honest . PREMIER PECKFORD: ·so it is a sl{ck, conniuing LAJay by the Leader of the Opposition to try to discrE!dit thE! m:.i.nister and Deputy Prern"i.er and this goUE'Innmenl· :, and it does infr·ingE• 1.1 pun, l: h f;! r· t=! f u i"r", I:: he· pi" .i.tJ "i.l eq E! •.; oF one han. member of this Hou se . SOME HON. MEMBERS: He;:-n· ·, h~~c:H'! MR. TULK: Mr· . ~3pc:!<'li<e~r. M R .

S ·p E A K E R : The hon. the lTIC!Jnb<::!r fo1n Fogo . Ml~. TULK: Mr. SpE!aker, 1 :.i. k (! t o ~; 1.: d r' t mE~think~; thE! if I o r:·r hon. protest too much . SOME HON. MEMBERS : ·--·-·-·-------·- ---·- Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Or·dr:1l", pleasc-:1! MR. TLILK: could, I by ~;ay l.n cJ gentlE!ITIEJn To be quite frank with you, S p E:1 d k <-:1 r , 1 r.Hll ·- AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) J.ooking for you. MR. SPEAI<I::-r\: 0 i" d e i" , p J. r:! c\ s e ! Mf~. Tl.l L.J<: t.uoulcl t .. hat doth Mr. If UtE! hon. gt:~nt.1E:'rnan can contt"o1 h i. rn s c~ 'l F n o IAJ .

Mr·. ~)pedkf'!i", fllel:hi.nks Lhe hon. gE!n+:l.E·rnan doth p!"ot.:~:!~;;l~ too ntt .lch, r'lnd T sdy l:o Yotli" llonot .Jr' thai:. [am surprised Lhat: we have gone on l:h"i.s l.onq, r::tn hotll", l.:his <:!uenj .ng on this point of priuil.ege. I IAJ o u 1. d r· e f e r· Y o 1.1 r· H o n o u I" .l~ o S e c t. J o n No. 48 R2603

__ ... _____ ....... ---_ .. __ ....... _ .. __ . ··-- -·-~ · __ , ... ___ .. -· -· . ·~ -- ..... ... ·- ··--··· · 19 oF Ber.luchesnc, 1\Jo. 1., lAJhich rules this t..uhole point of pr-i.tri.le':JE! J"C1.is.od by the hon. gentlE~ITictr-, To!" St. John 1 s South, CIS -L s h .i. s , .. i g h 1.: i.: 0 cl 0 I 0 I I '1: 0 r () l" cl e r· immedi~tely, and I would suggest to Yottl" Honottr' that pE!t'hdps 1.\JC:• m:ight l::iolkE?. a look at "it. 11 A tli S pttl·.lc! dl" ""i. S 'i. ng bE:! hAW f:! 1'1 l::L\JO ME~rni:H~I''S, CIS Lo allt:'gation~; of fa c l: s I d 0 l:' s n 0 1: f u l. r:-i. l. l.

Uw conditions of parliamentary pd.vilege. 11 Nov.J, Mr·. Speaker·, t.ht:~ bon. gentleman is alleging that he is not in a conflict of interest. The Leader of the Opposition, so the han. gentleman says~ has alleged tha ·t hE! is in a conflict of ..i.ntt:~rc:!st.. Now, Mr·. Spt:~ai<E:!r, that is an allE!gation as to thE! ·fac-ts and, UHH'efor·e, thE!rf-} ..i.~> no point of pr·ivilegE!. But let ITlE! cl e d.l IAI i 1-. h it on <:1 fa c t 1.1 dl b d s .i. ~> . WI'IC\ t t s th:i s point of Pl"·fv i J. E!9 E! i'1 b o 1.1 i:: ?

IAI h <·d:. i s 1-: h ·i. ~; p o i. n t o F pr·iv·.i.lege ctbout that thE! minls tel" h d s r· c:•t .i. s E! d 1-.: h t s E! t; E! n i. n g ? \ill h c:·l t c:-1 r• e d] 1 ti'IC"~ TTlE!rrib~:!rS dOlAJrl thE!I"e p011 nd ·.i. ng l:hc:!i. r· dE:! s k s for? lfllhi:l L-. i. s the-~ 1..uhole pur·post~ bc:d·li.nd t ht~ point 0 f p I" :i.

l) i J. (:~ g (:~ ? J1 0 y 0 II !; [~ (~ I~~ h El l: j_ ~; he~ppEHdng? They hctue been taking <·1n di..Ufl .tJ. dr'tlbbi.ng ""i.n lh:i.:; legjs]~t.ure because of their own i:J (~ i·l<:'tt) i 0 I H" . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear·, hE!ar·! MR. TULK: They have bee n taking ctn awful in this legislature of thE! VE'!I"Y !<""i.nci of drubbing because behaviour right now. we see them exhibiting AN HON. MEMBER : Ask the:· rTIE'!rrtbE!r for Port: dE'! Cl"ave (r"lr·. LFFor·cl) 1-o apolog.i .:~.e publ·i.cly. Ml~. SPE(lKEr~: -------- ·- Oi"dE:!I", p] eaSE!! 1..?. 601J.

June 2, 1988 IJol XL r~R. lULl< : How can we get off this hook? ~.J e J. l. • 1~1 (,~ <: a n d :i. ~; c r· e d J 1-. · l h f~ L c~ <~\ d ~:! r of the Opposition. That :is thE! p () i. n t: 0 r:- p i" . i.

l) i. l e ·~ (~ . T h i~l t: i. ~; IAJ h d 1: the point of privilege is aJ.l i::tboiiL, llcli~J Ci::trl 11.JC~ d i.~;cJ"E'!di .l:" l::h1:! LE!adE!r of l:.hE=• OpposJtJon? HOIAI Ci:'l.n IAJ C;! p II 'l:. h j_ I rl i, 1'1 h .-i. ~; p 1.1'1 C U? ~~ H J.J., F i I" s t o f a 11 , IAJ e IAJ ·.i 11 l:: a J. k a b o u l: h:i.s salai"Y · 'Thc-tt has b( !l?.l'l ldi .d t.o rE!St, AN HON. MEMBER: You hope it has been laid to rest . MR. TULK: You would like to be able to raise Lt. T h E:' n IAJ E!

IAJ j_ ll t a l. k a b 0 U t h :i S Conflict of IntE:~rE:~st StatE!JTJenl:; he ci·.-i.d noL dl~Cl.<·li"C~ <.·1 i~R~)P. ~~E!l.l, in actual fact the han. gentleman r~ol.l.OI•Jed Lhl'! Confli.c +: or=- In tel"est: Guidelines right to the let ter. ~~ :i. g h t 1:. 0 t h (·) 1. E! l·. 1.: e I' . Hold -i.l: 11p a l 1 y o tl 1~.d. s h . T c d n J"ead as g e n -L l E! rn r.1 n . NOll] I in r-1r- . the tAJe 11 as l":. he h on .

ApprH'C~I'l l:l.y, h(~ CcHlnot. ::) p e a k e , ..• Conflict th~~ of gui.dt:~lJn<-?.s InterE!St S t-. i'\ t: C:! rn e 1'1 l: S 1.: h r:"\ t IAI f:~ r:"l r· (~ S 1.1 p p 0 S e d 1··. 0 p r· E! p a I" e a s k f o r· t: h o s E· w h j_ c h h i'l tJ e 1: h E! p 0 s !) :i b ·j_ 1 ·i. I: y 0 r c 0 n r T '"i ( t: I ,:'{ n d they thought, because the Lead er oF the Opposition sa id I hi'lue cr l: hE! In i 11 t E'in E! S t S bUt t h E• I" E'! j_ S 1'1 :: p

l) s s i b .L 1. i l:. y 0 r c 0 n f 1. i c l". I l". h E! y h a d something on hirn, they had the goods. Last week they reaJ.izo d that J..uas not the casE:!. ~~o IAJher t~ h E~ L e d d ~'! r· o f t h <:~ 0 p p o s .i. l:. i o n s t. o o d in his pJ.aCE! and stc:n·tE•d tc que stJ.on, <'1:; i.s h:i.s r·lght to do, as is his duty Lo do, IAJhE'!thc:!r <~ 111·oi. nJ S l.: E:! I" of l:: h (;! C I"OIAJI"l :iS '"i. 1'1 i." conflict of interest posiLion, l: hE! y s d ·j cl, I T r:- IA)l:! c d n 0 n l. y t· u I" r' that into sornE!t.hing IAJherE· thE I.<~ ado t' of t: he 0 p p <-) s :i. t :i. on t s l: r· y ·in g No. 48 R2604 .

-. - ~ -- -·· ·-- -~- ·-·- - ~ ...... ..,_-_ ...... ~---· ··-·---- -···-.. -·-· -----.. ..-.:.;.... __ ---·--_ .. __________ ---~--- .. --·-·- to make John ColLins look l-i.b:1 a crook, we will have her made. r Now, I s-i£y to hon. gentlemen that the L e ad e r of t he 0 p p o s i U. on h a s never Scl.id i:ha t. t:h<-?. hon. gentleman is a crook or a launderer of rnonE:1y. I-I~! hi;t S 1'18Vl:1l " Si'l. "i.cJ t:hdt <:>:ithE!r'. What ht~! has CJLIE!StionE!d, Your' l·lonout". -· MR. MORGAN: He did not go far frorn it . J\1R. TULI<: l·lot.~J do yc:HI knorJJ? ~,Jh(~i"E:1 yo11 hE!rE:1? SOME HON.

MEMBERS: llc,!cAI", h(!i:Ar! MH. MOI~GAN: TI~Jo IJ.Jec:d<s , .. ,go your' rl:i ;""!:') rnembE!i" fot" Pot"t dE! Cl"i:tVE~ tr"i(~!d l:o gE:1t the ci-L1"l.: on 1110, <:·lncl no1~J .i.i:. "i.s Oi". Collins. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BAKER: Narne hirn, Mr. Speaker. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, what the Leader of the Opposit-Lon has done, and not only !:hE! LE:!adE!r of !:hE! Opposition b u t. <·l 1. l. o f u s o n l: h .. i. s s .i. d E! - r.'l n d IJJE! sLil1 have sorne CJlH!stions yet I)Je l .. ~Jrtrli: SUII10 C:'ll"lSI•.H'!(': ; [:O f"i"Orrl !.:hE! Minis \":1:>-r' of Lal:wu1n (MI". Bli:"nchcH'

d) i.~:; quest.i.un, IAJh··ich .i.s !.:he t"('!i:1~:~on thts :is not a point. of ptn:ivilE!9C "' ·-· r,~J('! hi:FJe not. l""i.i'i.bl.ed Uw rrdn.i!;h:!r j II iHlY lAJC\Y ·- Mf?. fltOI~GAN : F :i , .. ~: l. :i. t ColJ.j .nc~. Luc:ts Mo1"9ctn, 1-h 1.:! I" e i S n 0 ~) rJIC!dl" "t-.d C l::i C S! Ml~. lULl<: l.i~ten to the artist . L260S June 2, 1988 not~J :i.'t ::i. s e nc I ·l·.o "i ·1·. Vol XL MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. TULK: What we have done, Mr. Speaker, is questton whether the Premier of this Pt"ovinCE! has E!nforced the! CJ I I -.i d E! ""J. .i. 1'1 (~ S l h d 1:: h f'! S P l 0 l.J t , I b E:! J. :i E!

V E! i t lAI a S :i. n 1. 9 8 0 . T h a t t S 1.1J h ift l 1 .. h .. i. s s '."i. cl C:! h a :=; cl c: n E:! . T h c:! minister, by having financial .inten~sts, I S.:liJ !:o h.i.m- and he admi ·tted this afternoon that he has financial interests, he admitted that he received I"(,' rnJ i.: ti:Hl U~ !) j7 I" 01(1 l: h f~ C OlflpcHl y "L l'l that company. and th:i.s is t.~Jhc.-lt Lh<:• g II :i. d e 1 i. n (;! !) s i'\ y I IJ 0 I I c c'l. n n () t: h a v r:! those financial interests unl.ess l·.hoy r'li"E! go .. i.ng ·l··.n b(:! rlecl.ar·(=!d, every contr'act you g(;!t in contact IAJi.l :.h gotH!r'ntn ent on.

We~ s;~y t.o !.:he minister Lhat he has placed h:i.msc:!}f, ej.l.h1:!1" knot,~.Ji.nql.y or" unknotAJingly, in a conflict of i.ntc'!r'~;:'st po~; ·.t t:i .on. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. TULK: Oh, I have no doubt about it. And thE! Premier of th'is Province hc~s cll.1ot•.Jed thRt to go on. The Pl"E• rrri E·r taJ.ks about. s<:•!:ting yoi.IJ"~;E=!ll~ 1.1p dS j1 ,tcl9(:! dncl :jut"y, (::1ncl I believe he used the word 'God 1 Mr. Speaker, t.he Conflict. of J n L ('! t" e ~; 1. C 1 1 i. d o 1 "i. n C! s t n L h i. s Province are fairly good . AN HON. MFMHEI~ : [;,Jho bi"Oll9 h !: i·.hern ".in? MR.

TUL.I<: Th(:~ I.>I"Hrn 'i.c !r" . AN HON. l"lEMBER : I;\] h o con !·. r' i'tlJ H n E~ d t. he rn? MR. TULI<: No. 48 R2605

Who has contrav<:~ned them? How many i:-L mes has l:he Prem-ier· C~l.J.ou.Je:~d ministers on that side to carry on b !::~ h c:'\

I) j_ 0 II f . - 1-.: h d 1·.: ·.i. S l. (! S S i: h <:'1. J'l IAJ h r'1 1: you tAiould expect of a n1<:~mber of P c:u· l. i. i:Hne n t, of a rn<·)llli:) C:! r of· lJJJ. s LeglsJ~ture? We have h~d a rrl"i . n ·L s t: ''! l" L n L h ·L s II u 11 s c~ l. .i. co t. o 11 !> . Il:: hc:ts been c:! s l·:abJ.:ish~~cl bey:)nci any s h a cl o IAJ o f i:\ cl o u b 1·: . !,~ <;! h d \) f:' h <:·\ rl d rui1d s tel" :in lh :is House I the for'TTJE!ln MJnJst .c~1" of Transportatton MR-. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. TULK: use public funds improperly. Now, Mr . Speaker, arb-Ltrator - MR. PEACH : Clyde told you to be quiet. MR.

TULl<: 1: t t. (' ll S t. h (! k i. 1'1 cJ 0 f' b (;! h i'l V i. 0 I .I (' lAIC:~ can expect From this Premier in 1-:> n f o r· c-i. n g U1 (! g u i d e l L n t-:! s h e p 1.1 (:. i. n pJ acE!. Mr·. Spc~!aker, hl':~ has not b e:~ (?. n d o :i n g -i. l:. . A n d I s .:1 y i:. o 'c h c hon. gt~ntleman that while he can al.J.ege all he likes i:.hat the fdcts as put fol"war·d by Utts sidl':~ are IJ.Jr on g I i'l s i. ~; IT'i. s r i. g h 1·: L o cl o , he Ci:J.nnot, on the other· hand, say +·. hr·\ L: IAJC~ do no l. hi:·\ l.J e ·1 ... he~ l"'i.g h l·. t-.o c:t ] ·01 E:' 0J c:! L i· 1 c:t l· l h E:!

F a c L ~:; h E~ i s putl: ·i.ng fOI"IAk 'tl"d di" C:' dS I~JI"OI'lg <"iS we 11 . The I" t"! for· E~ , L her· e is no p o i. n L: o i~ pI" ·t tJ -i_ ·1 e g C:' . 0 1: h u l"'"' t s C! I h r;• would have this House and this PcH'liamenL, ;:~nrl t:h .i.s hc'ls l~o r:lo tAJith a po :int of privilHge I SE!t in posj.t.ton I~Jhc->.t"H tAle accept l.r:.'SS t:i·1an thE! facts and, thl':~rE!fOr'E!, uwuld b~::! i n f r· i n g .i. n g u p o n o u r· r -L g h t s a s lTil':~ITiber ·s of Parl:i.ament •. j_n that t.1.JE! would not be allowed to ask the kinds oF quE:'stions lhat nN!d to be asked.

Tht:! hon. gen U .E!IIIf.Hl i'ldS LIAJO choiCE!S I Ml". SpE!akE!r - and there 'i. s n o p o 'i. n t. o f 11 .i. rn g ''! t 1: i n g l.l p o n d L.2606 JunE! 2, 1988 VoJ. XL point of privilege - he can sit in thJs House-:> :i.n i'l confl.i.ct of interest position as a minister of l.:he Cr'OIJ.Jn 1 or· h<-:> c~Hl gc~!l~. cJ.E'!i:\r' of his inh~rE:~sts c~ltogether. AN HON. MFI'-1RER: I l:h i.nk you ar·c~ IAJJ"ong. r·1r~. ru1...1<: Those ar·e thE! onJ.y cho·.ices he h;:~s . And I do nol.: b<-:>Li.e:'ve the hon .· gentleman is a dishonE!St i.ndivi.dual.. l do not bE~l..i.E!V(! hE! is a crook. AN HON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. TUL.K: T. do not beJ. "i.c-:>lJe th<.·l t at aJ.l. You said j t is not a law, it :i. s a gu LdE:~l..inE:! sc->.l.: cloiAJJ'l by i·.h(• PlnE!JTdE!r . You sa:i.d that Jn yoU!" opening l"elnar·ks. So e:'i. ther· you abide by those guidelines - DR. COLLINS: ( 1 n au d i. b 1 E! ) . MR. TULK: Oh, you s~id it had no legal - DR. COLLINS: (tnaud'i.ble). MR. TIJ U< : You made the statement . MR. TULI<: T d g t' l':! e 1.11 oi. l:. h y u u -L l:. "L ~' a J. diAl, b u i:: thE· gentleman, Edther know :ingly or 1.1 n k n OI.Ad n g l. y , has b r· o k <-'! n i t. .

B u 1: you said there were the guidelines only. M r· . S p t~ e1 k e r· I U1 (! , .• e i. s no point o f priviJ.ege, thE•re is only a simpJ.E' d-i.fft:!r'<:!l'lCt:• of op -i.nton, a~; l:o l::hE! 1] t . F F I l a .E!ga ·~J.ons o · .. acts I :)oti.\J\:!('11 ·~1.1JC pt:•opJc. Th;:-'lnk yot.l. SOME HON. MEMBERS : No. 48 R2606

· ·-- - · • • •;- O.Lo• '-·••• 11•-- - ·- ;,__ ··- ·---· ----·-- · .. ;••·-- ~· ---- _,.,._ 00 -~- _ ___ _ _ ___ ,-____ _ - -- .. - - · · -- ·· · · - ·· '" - - Hc~ar, hear! MR. SIMMS: Mr. SpeaR~r. if Your Honour is prepared to hear some more argument. MR. SPEAKER: The~~ hon. t.: 11 (:~ Pr·estdE'!nt or::- t: h<"'' Council. MR. SIMMS: I was not quite sure if Your since u.ri J.J. on a Honour would like to, but you have recognizsd me, 1 t.i:lke the occasion to carry ltttlc~. Mr ·.

SpeakE:~r·, there~ at"e a number of po:i .n i::s h<::~rr;!, ·r·.i r' s 1·. of <.'Ill' IJ.Jh 'i C h neE~d to b(! ma cl E! , some of Lllhi c h h .-::~ IJ e i.·l J r' e rt d y been llli. ''~t:l e dl'ld I do not :i ntE!nd ·t. (l hf:>labOUl" thosE:' p o -.-i n t s . T. 1: h i. n k U1 e n 1·i. n 'i. ~; h:! l" , h:i111so.Jf, hd ~; pr·E!Sen ·t~ed i:.l supE•l"b C i:l S 1::' . () b

l) i. 0 Ll S ]_ Y , .i. 1'1 \) j C''IA} () r 1.: 1-J e fact thctt Your Honour has seen fiL 1-.o r:-1.l.J.ow l:hC'! de' !bt: ·ll::r:~ i.:o go un i:!S long as it has, then I u.Jould clssum'~ thd.l:: Your Honour considE!Y'S this to bE! a UE!ry serious rnatt:er and will likely take the matter ~nder advisement - and under consideration. Before you do that, may I offer for Your l-lonour· 1 s ~~d:.i.Fj_cat:..l .on a couplE• of othE!r I~E+er·ences. ThE:' ho n . tTIE!ITlbe r· madE' l"e f c~ re n c E! to a reference about dJfference of op·inion bE!'l:IAJE:!E:•n 't:IAJO hon. ITIE'lflb(~I"S as to facts. Mr.

Sper:t!<UJ", thdl: ·. 'is 1'1 0 -L lAJ hat lJJE! a l" e t a J. k j n g a i:J 0 U t hE! r· E! dl.: dl.l.. lille i:<~r'c;! l.:i:<~lkJng c"lbOitl: d ci'ICI1''9E!, i:ln c~llE!gation madE! by onE! llll'!rllbE!1" o'\qi :d l'lS 1: i:ll'lOi:l·liH' IOF.!rObE!r'. T 1·1 i:'l t. J s lAJ h c~ l:: t.~J E! <:lt" E~ t:· a 1 k i n g a bOll L . [ l. I. •' - .) no ·1". a c:l -i. F 1- r:! l" n n (: r-:! o I op:i11 ::i or1 bE:! Lt;JE!E'!I'l :;\i h y d ·i d h e no 1. j n Pat"agt"i!tph t:; 1 S f.~ \j ~)· , II ( 1:. I" r:~ s p 0 1'1 s :i b :i 1 :i L y !: l.AJO l'' (!del on .1. s of L2607 June~ 2, l9B8 hon.

I'IJernb,:!l"~;. tho i"C!f ·r::! r·ence Pct~jr;:! 19? Tt i;lltA)i'~ ':) ~) l-_ hE! L l:1 E! H o l.l s e -L o

t) o l XL dectdr:~ Jf r·E:~fl.r:~ct.:i.ons on Membc~rs are sufficiently serious to just.i.fy action. 11 Tt· is ·the responsibility of the House, not the han . membE!r· for· Fogo. ThEH'e are all kinds of other ] . t f- M p a r· . ~i a 1 n e~~ n .. a, .• y 1° E:! ·-c;! r· r::! n c ~~ s , 1" . Speaker, such as those the hon. l: h ~~ M .ln is l: E! r· o f7 1·1 ,~ d l.l~. h used J n h .·L s caSE!, 1"efE!l"r·ing to S:it" El"skine Mi.'ly 1 :> 1"C::!FE!r·e~~ncr:~s and 13e~'<;tuchesnE'! 1 s Fourth Edition. They kind of -j_ rn p l·i. c~' d t h i:~ t b E! C a II S E! -L ~~- t S t h e Fourth Edition it is no good.

Tha+: i.s not dCCtJr'i'll ~e. YoiH' Honour tJJell knotJJS l:hat, and so do his l c::~ gal. ;-:~ c:l iFi. so r s .

ThE!rE:~ is ano ·thet" rE!ferenCE!, ~) p e '-" k C! r' , on l. hE:~ r· o 1 e of ~3pE:~clkE!I" in dE~aling tJJ:i. t h J'il,;l 1: 1·: c:! i" ~> . f'h"lt v; s o HIE:~ 1: h -L n g shouJ.d no L bE~ 1ost i.n Ml". thE' thesE' Lh< ;l'l: Lh:is cl :i. ~; r; II ~; ~) ·:i. 0 1'1 <:!1'1 cl l-. h ·j ~,; cl (' b i;l t_ E! ' I r·r::·fE·r· Yout" 1-!onout" lo Pal"agl"aph 81! on P<:-lge ;.>.!_), SllbsPcl.inn (?) tAJhoi.ch s a y s , 11 I t h a s o f l~ E! n b e e n 1 a 'i d d o t~J n 1--.hdL thE! ~3p<:!ake'!r· 1 s funcl~Lun i.n ruling on a claim of breach of p r· ·i. \) i.l ~~ g e i. s l. ·t. rn--l. t: c~~ d t:. o d r::~ c :i. cl oi. n g thE! formal qUE!Stion 11 - and that for·rnal qiH:~st.ion is- · 11 t;.Jhether or· not the case conforms with the cond·i.ti.ons tJJhich alonE! e~ntitle~ .it to take precedenCE! over Orders of l::h r·:> IJi:l.IJ 11 ·· so l~hi.'tt !~Je could (JE!t on and havE· a dE!bate about l::hE!

VE!ry sr:!r· --i_ott!> lrli:·lt·_tE!t' thi.~tt. has ber:•n lllddr"! -- 11 and dOE! S not ext:E!nd to decid:i.n~J L.hl'! qt .l~:·s l:·.io n 0[ 7 Stlbs l-:.i:'tncc:!. II In othE!l" WOI"d\>, u.Jhe-t:h<:!l" Ol" nol Lh::!lne has bc!C'!I'l a bt"edch of pl"iv:i.l~::!gP. A n d t: h E! ·l a s t t.-1.1 o r d s t: h E! mE! m b E! l" f o , .. Fogo ll~)('!d r'l~) hr::!

Sdl ·. clot.A}J'l lA}f:!l''~~. 1 tl·1et"E:! is no br·E:!ach of p r· i. u ·i l. e •::J E• . ' till C::' a r-· c~ <:t r· g' 1 i n g a b u u i:. whether or not there should be Hl'lOIII.Jh ·i.tnpc:;•t· . .:ttlCH p];:'tC£"![1 Ol'l ill"]_~. matl.:E!I" Lo a11ot.JJ thE• hon. M:in:i. :·;LE•t" Oi~ l·llcoiqll.h, i''tl'ltl Oi:hei"S, i:hu oppol"tun:i. ·l:y and t"::Lght t·:o g<:!l-.: up r::t n d rl r,' r::- end d ga-L n ~; 1.: t· h r:! .:'! -, "I. o 9 i.'t 1.: -·i_ u n s madE! by thE! mE!mber for No. 4B R2607

Windsor - Buchans. That is the point of this particular debate, Mr. Speaker, and Your Honour is the on(:!- -t:.Uho makes thE! decision tAJhe'thEH' it is important e•nough to 1 e t ·t h a 1:: k oi n d o f d i s c u s s .L o n 1~. a k 8 place . I think Your Honour is g J v ··i. n g L t s ~'! r· · i. o 1.1 s c o n s i. d E! r' c:1 'l:. ..i. o n . and I thoink he should. Not.~J, Mr. SpeakE!r, I have some r e. f e r e n c e s • j u s t to t' e t a 1 i ,:~ t e i r you want, and I suppose this couJ.d go on all day.

The m:::~rnber· for Mount Scio is now being counselled by the LeadE!l" of the:' Opposition, I suppose to ensure that that kind of retaliation does go on. The point about the member for Windsor Buchans saying that he accepts the minister's expJ.anation, he tried l:.o make a big ·thing out of that. He accepts the minister's expli:-lnat.ion. NotAJ, cl~>.ar·ly, Mr. SpE!akE!r, thE!rE! haVE! been cornrnE!n't:s made, and they are recorded in Hansard, which would lE!ad onE! to believe that that is not quite the case, they are contradictory. I refer to Hansard.

May 26 ed:i. tion. page 2356, where the member for lrd'indsor ·- Buchans, Mr. Wells, says. "The · peoplE! tAJho have responsibility for the management of all corporations - they have il:, i:·.hey hi:'t'Jt'! Lht:! re spons ibtlity ... arE• thE! cl'i.rc.:!CLOI"S. Tr:- the;! rni.ni.sLE :·r di.d not pal"l:-.ic:ipate a~; a dii"E!ctor, I cl o no l.: k n OIAJ L: h cl t: . 11 Y E:! t, i'1 L: 1: h ~~ samE! time:~, thE! TllE!rnbE!I" For ~'IIJndsor Buchans . ts imply "i.ng thct L hE• accepts the hon. Mjnister of liE!all:h's E!Xplanation.

But, but, 'I do not know thai:.' The o·l:her refertHJce is t:.l'w rnor·e:~ current one. y e s t e r day . 11 ThE! Co n f l i c t. of InbH'r::~s t: Rulc.;!S haVE! been cl1:;!arly br'E!adlE!d," page 2:133, June 1. But, MJ". Speal<1:=!r, l.:he Conr-li.c-l: or=- Interest Rules haue not been brr:.>ached. That is the point. L2608 June 2. 1988 Vo1 XL AN HON. MEMBER: In your opinion. Ml~. SIMf\.18: It is not my opinion, +:hat is the • 1 r-.~w. T h c law i. s c 1 e Cl r . The J. a1.1. is there and the law is uery c J E'!

"' r· . r"'l r . ~3 p e a k e r· • r: h o s e k i n d s of a 1A g l.Hil ~'! n t s a r' E! ~d. rn p 1 y a J" ~J urn EH1 r.: s l·:hat l:hc:! hon. rnetnbei" and his Ci"OlA - incidE!ntally, that sarnE! crowd or' t h e o 1: h e l'' s i. cl e t h E! I" e • lJ..Ji t h o n e exce-ption, and perhaps thE! ITIE!ITiber for ~,Jaterr=or·d ·- l<enrnount. tried to do a similar thing in this House a couplt~ or= YE!ars back, I rernernbt?.r - they tried to discredit another uery honourable member in this HouSE!. MR. TULK: Thc;!y tAJere right then. l:oo. MR. SIMMS: They were not right then.

The hon. member for Fogo says they were r:Lght. You should be ashame !cl of yoursc~~lf'! You knolJ..J you I;.Jr:!rE! not right, and you can ask a lot oF people on t:he strE!ets whe:~ther you werE! right. It backfirE!d. or you and it burnE!d you L~o piecE•s, and you know it did. Mln.

SpE!akE!r, aJ.l I have J.istenE!C Lo rei'll.1y is the member far Windsor - Buchans trying to weaseJ around l:hE! accusal::ions he~' has made and trying to somehow give the ·i. rn p I" o s s oi. o n , o n l.: h E! o n e h a n cJ , 0 h , I accE!pt, I undE•rstand, and aJ.J. tha.t k·ind of stufF, but, on thE! othtH hand, hE! clE!arly is out to t.r·y 'l:c dE!Sl:r'oy and cl.isct"c~~dtt an hon. ITIE!mbE!r of this Hcn.1s~:·. ar unuJarr·anled action by ct ITlC:Hnber whom I thought, and most N ~'!lA.I found land E• r· s , I Hd. n k • lAI!c!

JA '" lE!ad t-.o bE·J.~i.<~~vr::~ a yE!ar Ol" so ago, tAJa s go ·in g l':c:> b c:! t h E• saviour· or= l:his E!tll.it"e poJi.ticaJ pnlcE!ss . Mr. SpE!i:lkE!r, if anything, he~ has brought tt down bE!low t.hE• dE!pt:hs No. 48 R2608

- -~--------· ··--- ----- --·····-·-- . ._._ ··-- ~ .,- -- ,_- ---··- -··- ~ ---- --- - ~- -- - --- ... - ·-----. --- of anything including the Cabinet. it ever years he has been, sat in thE! I say to the han. member, why does the han. gentleman not have the intest .inal for'l:il::udE'! l:o gE~t up in this HousE•, apologiZE! to thE! hon . Minister of Haalth and be done with it? Why does he not do that? Why does he no ·t have the intestinal fortitude to do that? Is he not man enough to do it? No, Mr. Speaker.

The answer is the y t hi n k the y s e e t hi s a s a way of scoring poJiticaJ. . points; it is for no other reason, Mr. Speaker. He says, 1 I must comment on public issUE!S. I haVE! a r e s p o n s :i b i 1 i t y . 1 ~'ll h o m a d e t. h e:1 issue public? The hon. member, or· 1nr=11'r1be:1rs, opposilE! lni:'tclc~1 t:h(:! i s s lH:' p u b 1 i c , · rJJr· . S p E! a k E! r· , s o c c:! r· La :i. n 1 y t h c:! y h <.'1 v E! t o c o rnrn e n 1: o n it, bE!CaUSE! it is par·t of thEdr plan, part oF Lht"1.iJ~ plot. I will not get into the hon.

Leader of the Opposition 1 s Conflict of In ·terest Sl:atemc·Hll Cl.t this stage, but I do have plans to comment on it at a later stage, I can tell him, and I have a bit more informat.ion than he laid on the Table here today, and a bit more infonnat.ion than is out:linc~1d in his Conflict of Interest S t a tc~ me n t , tAl h 'i c h lA! i 1. l b e o F interE!St Loa Jot of pE:!opJ.e, and somE! of 'it, Mr. SpE!i'lker, go(c!S bi<.~ck twenty years, u..JhE!n the rnE•mber was a rnintster in a CabtnE!t. and had several interests as well. AnyLuay, Mr·. SpE!aker, I hopE!

Your Honour· lAI-i.1.1 t.akE! th "i.S l'nftLI:E:!r' under· sc:!l"·.ious considE!r'ation _.. it. is s r,H' i o u s , a n d o b v :l o u s l. y y o u l:w l.i. e v e i L is o I" .i L lAIO ul d no ·l:. h a v <:! last~:! cl 1::-o I" an h o t.IJ" C:'t n cl f .i. f L C:! 1:~ n o I'' t-.tAJ E! n I'.

I) rninu ·lE!S- and comE· back and you will see, Mr. Speaker, depending L2609 June 2, 1988 VoJ. XL. on Your Honour • s ruling, that tA.Je do have a substantive motion we are preq:>ared to place -before ·thE! House for debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE~aJ"! MR. SPEAKER : OrdE!l~, p1E!aSE!! I have heard threE! members on my left ·, and I am prepared to hear thE! han. thE! member for· Mount Sc:i.o Bell Island (Mr. Barry), but I wouJ.d ask him to be brief. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, ~H:!ar! Mf~. BARRY: Mr·.

Speaker, E•xcuse this somewhat s i. cl E! s t e:1 p p 'i. n q a~; T. move ·in L o l: h t=! issu~:!, bul:. lAJhc:!n you J.ook arouncl t h c->. IAJO r 1 d and you 'look c:<l:-. t. h c~: tAm y in which different parts of Lhe world have either progressed or not progressE!d, you wondE!l~ IA.Jhat is the reason. I often think of Haiti, which was one of the first. coun t:riE!S of UH~ Arner·icas t.o fiCJh t. off the shackles of a foreign power and achieve independence, a very courageous battle by its citizens.

But they do not seem to haVE! progrE!SSOd IJer.Y far· si.ncE• then, with all due respect to them, and I refer· now to statistics relating to inf~nt mol''t:aJ.j.t:y, pE!I~ capita inco1ne, cdl the VcH'ious tnd:icia. of so --ca.J.lc?.d material progress, anyhow. They a r· e r· :i g h t d o IJJ n a t t h t::' b o l:: t: o rn o F t.he scc.tJ.e.

I do not know if they are thE! most .irnpoVE!r·ishE!d country, but I lJ.JO u 1 d say Uw y arE! in t: hE! boL:Lorn ·r:-··i.vc:!. 1\JotJ.l, L•Jhal "is .i.L Lh;:;d: has pr·ev('!l'lb>.d that nation from progressing? ~~n'l.l, M1~. ~3pei:ikf:!i"', t: i:'tln c:'.l. be1 "l.E!VE•r' that tAJe havE! our' d c:! s l: in y in o u I" otA.Jn hands. And, you !<notAl, IAJC:! haVE! No. 4·8 R2609

• · · - ·- ·· - -· . .. _ __ __ .. .. __ .... _ ... ... ~ - ·~- · ·-- ·· ·- -.--- . _ _. _ ... ___ ,. _, ... - -- .... ..... - .... - -· u - · ·- ........... ~ a province here which has tremendous resources - the fish, the forest, th~ minerals - and, you know, ·- we have not progressE!d as much as some othEH' parts of the world with equivalent resources, .·.i.n thE! saJnE! period oF t.:-:i.me. Do you know why I think that is? MR. SPEAI<ER: Oi~der, pleaSE!! 1 would ask lhe hon . member to deal with this point of privilege. MR. BARI~Y: I wiJ.l get right to the poi.nt in this statement.

Do you know why I think it is, M1~. Speaker? It is bE!cause o·F 1~.he JA.Jay t.~IE:~ dc:~al tAiith issues such as are now before this House. And I would submit the same is the probJem in certain count:r'iE~s · in other paJ~ts of l:he world. I am not too impressed, Mr. Speaker, I am not too proud as a rnernbE!r of the House of Assembly to see what is gotng on on yet one more occasion in this House. And what is happening here on this point o~ privilege? What is happening here on this point of privilege, Mr. Speaker, is attack t.he messenger rathE:1r than the mE!SSage . SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE:~ar·. heal"! MR.

BAI~RY: D c:• i:l1 u.ri . l: h 1: h e o n e is stH! rather· than . l - 1.t-.·. s E!. r-. l..l.Jho r·c'\i.Sc:!s Lht=• Lui 1:. h thE! iSSUE! Now, I also want to preface my remarks - and I would ask that the membEH' For Bonav.i_sl::a ~3ouLh be kept silent, Mr. Speaker - on this point to say that I haue the h:i.ghE!Sl. possibJ.e r'E!gard f·ar thE! Minister of Health. I haue the highest possible regard for his integrity. I believe he is an L2610 June 2, 1988 Vol XL honourable rnan . SOME HON . MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

BARRY: In the time that I have dealt with him in l:he HouSE!, I haVE! sE•en h:i .rn i71ct tn <:'In honoul"dbl<:! Fash ,ion. T JA.Jould hauE• to say almost ·-· we11, nothing ~> pr:i ng s Lo 1n-i. nd, ~~r. Speaker, on any occasion, L~l-wrE! I hc:we. S(,'(O!I'l him act ·i.n any bu l an honourable fashion. 1\JOI.JJ, Mr . Speal<t=!r, that t:hat does not settle the matter. Because as hdve I pointed in this House before, and I have I1E!VE!I~ sa:i.d an y t h t n g i n l:: hi s H o u s ("! t. h a 1:.

I a rn not preparE!d to say ou'l -.sidE! this House, and I bE:~lievE• l:hal: E!VE:!ry rnE!mbE!r' should PI"OCE!ed on thE· same b a s i s , IA.J h :i c h h a s n o l: a ltAJ i.'l. y s b (' (! n l::h(:! caSE!, M1~. SpE!ak~:!J", j_t_ has not· : al!A.Jays been the case, but I JAJould say that just because an individual is of high moral integrity, of high moral character, an honourable person, that does not mE!an that mistake~ : cannel: bE! rnadt'>., that does not mean, Mr. Speaker, that from a knowledge that one's heart is pure onE! cannot be lulled into a poslLion oF complacency. N Cll;.l , M r .

S p E! a k E! r , 1 e t u s cJ <:! a 1 1.1.d. l: h l:: h r~ -:i. s s ' 1 (~ . I i" t::! j H c t o u l:. o f h a n cl , I reject with the utmost vehemence I.: he Pl"! :!tn-i.er'' s pos :L l:. ion t:ha l: I;.JI?. canned: dea1 1.1.d.t:h an is~:ue• unJE•s s I;.J(:! E!Xam i.ne ·i.n Lh<:! rn::Lnu l'.:(!S t ciE! "t-.i:'l'il the background going back to twenty years, I beJ.ieve we now hE!ar frorn thE! GovE·l~nrnent HouSE! Leadc:'r', oF t:he incLi.v:Ld,Jal '.>~Jho raises the issue. We are not going to have very much d E! b a b'! :i n t h i. s H o u s l':' , fl-1 r . S p e a k E! 1~ , if that is the case. No. 48 R2610

··--· -- -- ,·· ~---· -···--...;.---- ·---.-. ........... ___ _. . ..-.. ,.,;;. - ·~ -·...._- ---··- ... -·-·- ....... - ~- · .... -· - ···-··----- · - .......... -- ·---- MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. BARI~Y: M r . S pea k e:1 r , uJ e h a v (:' a n i s s u e bE!fore:1 this House and u..Je have to cl e a 1 !Alit h that issue . N ou..J, t h (,1 PrE!miE!r may think it is a srnart polil~.ical ca mpaign, but I go ba ck to my introductory remarks, Mr.

Speaker, and that: is that he dOE!S no credit to this House, he does not credit to the position of Premier, and he does nothing to help this Province progress if he draws debate in this House down to the gutter. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear·! MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible) brought it on. not the Premier. MR. BAf~RY : I t: was Mr·. Spe:1akE!Y', I am no ·l: goin~J to be lead astray, but the member For Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) said it was brought on. Mr. SpeakE!r, if any member in tl'lf:!

House, the Leader of the Opposition, the Government House Leader, the member for Bonavista South, if anybody does anything that should be qUE!St:Loned :i.n thE! H 0 U S E! , 1 Ed: U S d e a l IAJi t h t. hat i S S U e separately and directly, but not by innuendo and not to try and discredit an individual. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! rJJR. BARRY: - ·--- Let us deal with the issue and not try to discredit the individual ''J h o r· a i s E! s l: h E! i s s u e a n d UH"! l'l lAJ e will see progress, then we will se~'! l:.h:i.s !·louSE! doing IAJhi:·1l:. it should bE:' doing for Uw people of this Pr·ovincc.

L2611 June 2, 1988 Vol XL. ~.1 ow I M r . ~) p ~1 a k e r J j_ r I c 0 Ill d j us t briefly, and I know the Speaker has shoiAJn a lo ·t or=- 1err:iE!nce and I - do not want to delay thE! HousE! in g e U: i. n g on l..L.Ji. t h i l: s work , so let mE! 9E!t to thE! ·-· rE!grett~ably it ts a SOifl~:!IAJhal:. lC'!gaJ.isl":ic S(:H 'iE!S of rE!rnarks, but LAJE! arE! dE!al:i .ng w·it:h l E! q a 1 rna t. t: <'! r s ; IAJE! a I"\'! cl ('!a 1 :i. n g n OIA.I with legislation and regulations that Flow from legislation. Now the relevant

section of the Conflict of Interest Guidelines, to me. seems to be regulation 3: 11 While holding offiCE! and for yNlr after ceasing to hold office, a Minister, his spouse, or minor children or a body or organization in which any of l:hem has a financial :inter·(~!S t shal.l not ... br:! eligible to receive a contract for the:~ supply of goods or ' SE!r'vicc~!S. 11 NoLAJ, M1~. SpeakE!r, on its face ·it. IAJOI~l.d Se!o!ffi thi.'lt l·:hE!I"(~ hdS bE•(!r1 Cl. breach of that section. On its fa c ~,~ i l. u..Jo u l d s E! E:' m t h a l:: t: hE~ I" e i ~~ a conflict of interest.

That does not rn~~an ... and I go bc:~ck to LAJhat I said when I started my remarks, thaL I had and I still have at this point in time, the highest regard for the integrity and the honour of the Mj.nistE!r of Health. It ·ts pos si.bJ.e, Mr. :3pr:: •akE!r, I do not know, that even though the minisl:E!F' knE!W that l:hE'! company ht~d held leases from government - I l h :.i. l'l k IAJ h :i. J. E! he IAia S .i 11 V 01 V '"! d LAI""i. t. h the company - he was not aware that . ther·e LAJEH'e subsE•quE :!nt renewals or subsequent leases. It may be that there is - DR. COLLINS: That is factual . MR. BARf~Y: Factual?

That the not knOIAJ 'l:hr:-~1.: i:h~:!l"e or such contracts? rni.nis l.:(:'r 1 s IAJOJ"cl. No. 48 rn .. i. nt s t: ~:·1" d i cl IA.I(! I"\:! I"(~' n (:~I~.Jd 1 S I accept l:he R26ll

DR. COLLINS: (Inaudible) is written Premier. a number of times. in the letter to It the MR. BARRY: I accept the minis l:.E:~r 1 s :indication that he was not aware of any subs 0~ quE! n L 1" f:! n E!t;~.Ja 1 s o l" :is s u .in g oF nE!lAJ contt"acts . So t.o~.Jhat tA.JE~ haVE! at most, in ·thai : case, Mr·. SpE:~aker­ but it may still be there and it may show some deficiency or defect in the gu:idelinE!S, in the Conflic·t of Interest regulations ·· seems to be a technical breach of that secbon. It : may bE:~. Mr .

Speaker, that ·the fault lies not with thE! mi 11 :iS t: e;! l" 1:)11 t tAli t h IAJh 0 meoW c:• r l.~k.l. S l"esponsiblE:~ :in that company or organization. Because I think ·thE:~tne t..vas a lnE•sponsibility for :lnfor·rn.ing t.:hC'! m.inist:er· if thE!rE! was any contract or lease E! ntE!red :inl:o, becauSE! thE:! or·gan:izat:ion or· body clE!arJ.y has a rE!Sponsibility under this

section as well. So it comes down, Mr . Speaker, as I J.ook at this and as I read this section, that we still have a problem here. It does not necessarily reflect in a bad fashion on the minister. One may say l hE:~ rn:i. n is t E! r , maybe , should have followed up From time to time to E:~nsure l~hat thC'!r'E:' t."Jer'E! no governrnE!nt lE!aSE!S or contracts of which he was unaware.

T would th::i.nk it: IAJOuld bE! rnol"E! nolnrnal or custolni:-\r'y Fo1n, i'1S E:!ver·ybocly is presumed to know the low, that compi:-\ny or organ·izcttion, whoever :is r·unning :it, to I<E!E~p ·t:he Jni.nist .et " inFor·rnecl so thi'lt thE~ pr·oper· 1E!"tters could be obtainE!d, or· the->. propE!r s I:E!ps ::.ctken to gaJn approval for that le~se or For \.:hat conLt"act.. flu t let: Speaker. because L2612 us J.ook ThE!re on its at: l:.hc.-ll: :l.ssue, Mt". is a prob1ern here, face a body or June 2, 1988 Vol XL organization in which the minister has a financial interest did become eligible to · ·receive benefits from a contract for thE! supply of goods or services.

That , I wo u 1 d . sUbmit , has bE! E! l1 establishE!d and tha-t, as I understand it, is all that has be(:!n c'llE!<.:J!:O!cl by Lhe Leclclf.:'l" oF l::h1:! OppostU.on. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear-, hoar! MR. BARRY: Mr.

SpeakE!r, if I could just E!nd up t.v l Ut o n e f oi. n d 1 p o :L n t , b E! c a u s E! again, and this is a rE!d hetnring, t."Je get t h .is d r.~ b <'' t e , an cl tAlE! h a v r:~ had it i.n this House bE:!for'E! and I hCive heard it in the course oF Hds is sue being djscussed, •oh , j. t t.o~.1as no ·l:. iHl ac l:ual confl.ic t:, it was only a potent:i.al confJ.:i.ct or ·in t E:~ r· e s t. . • N ot.o~.J , 11-1 r· . s pea k (! r· , w h c:'.l. t: WE! haVE! to kE!E!p in mind is t:hat c-l po ·tential beneFit corning to a member or a minister, is an actual conflict of interest. MR.

BAIRD: So was the beneficiaries disaster. Mr~. SPFAI<ER: Order, pl(;!ase! MR. BAI~RY : Jetter goj.ng of the Ocean to the Ranger W(! seE:! it: aga:i.n, Ml". SpE:!aker, fr'on Ul E! rn (;! I'Tli:H:! ln F 0 l" l·IJ.il 'n I:H:· F' w (o! s l: . r. 1.\JEl s wondering how long it wouJd be, Mr. Spe:~ak(:!i", bE!Forr~ d rrtE!rrtbc;!r oppositE! L4Jould jurnp up t.~rit:h that type of ~;cur-r-ilou~; colltrrlE!nt:.

I invite the member For Humber West:, I :i. n tJ j L E! h L rn now in a q u :i. t. e f a s h i o n , i f h E· h Cl s a n y n E! r v E:~ • '.i. f hE! i.~=; a rnan, -LF h(! has anyt:h·inq 'ir' terms of jntegrity or character, l:o sl:E:!p outs j.de l.:h'is HoUS!':! <:tnd say that I have done anything improper in my capac:i ty as a rnembE!r, as a No. 48 R2612

-··------- ---_......__ .... -- ~- - .. ·-·-. --· --- ------.- .......... ---·- · -- lawyer, or in any other Fashion, with respect to the Ocean Ranger. SOME HON :-MEMBERS : Hr:~ar, hec1r! Ml~ . BARRY: And I lAJj_ll. dE!al lAJi l~.h that in thE! L.<Jay Jn l~.Jh·ich tl~. should be d~=!al.L L~Ji l: h • and it. tAli 11 not bE! in t h t s House. That is a direct challenge to find out whether the member has any character or any :integr·:ity or any courage. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR. BARRY: If he does not ~~peabH'.

I ask fo1" th:is House . 01" rny Jnc;!rnbt=!1" opposi lE! d o t~ hat , ·M r . h:.i.s apol.oqy j_n rE!spect for thE:' lAI.i.J.J. S i.nk somewhat. Mr. Speaker. MR. BAIRD: I wi 11 de a 1 tAli t h it ( -L n R u d i b l e) . MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! MR . BARI~Y: I haue considered the 1nember somebody with whom I haue had fr:i.endl.y rE!lcd:. "i.ons for· a l.ong t i rn e , but l~ hat. so I" t oF co rntrJCc! n t , ,'IIJr· . Spr:~aker, I do not appr·eciaLe and I want the member to deal with it, either in the House or outside the HoUSE!. Why do we have ·thr:~se Conflict of IntE!r<:~st Regulations?

LE!t us seE! ~Jhether· :i.l ~ ·is unde1" thE! lc:!L.t:E!r' of the regulation of not. Let us see t~Jhat. LhE• inl:c;•nt: and l:hc"! sp:l.i"'it: of l:hE!SP I"E!gulations are and IAJhE!l::hE!I" l:: h c->. inc :i. cl ('! n t. n OIAJ be F o 1" r:! t: h ~=! House '.is caught up by it . ~~r·. SpE!aker·, if u.Je helVE! Cl tn:l.ntsLer tAJho .is "i.n 1..2613 Junr:~ 2, 1988 Vol XL C a b i n 0 t , a n d i f IAJ E~ l·hw E!

Cl c o rn p a n y • whether or not he is actively ·i.J'nJo1tJE:~d in running it,- fr·om t•.Jh:ich he derives financial bE!nefit:, and iF +.:h,:~t: compe1ny :i.s cloi .ng business wj .th goVE!rnrnent, ther'e is a VE!1"Y 1~ei:ll ·ft:~<:lr c:Hld 1"isk. l'-1r. Spc.:'ake1", thc-d: th~:!re is info1"rnat:ion floi.~Jin~J f. I'' o rn l. h E~ rn i. n ·.i. s t: (! r· t-. o l:. h t=! c o rn p a n y or from the company to the rninistE!r. I acCE!pt. 'l::hat in t.his case that was not thE! case. Mr . Spea~er, I clearly say I accept that this was not the case in this situation. The minister is an honourable man.

I belieVE! him to be an honourabl.e rnan with this incidE!nt and the facts which haVE! been l.aid out for me. But. there arE! peoplE! :i.n this P r· o v J n c E! 1~.1 h o d o · n o t k n o t•J l:: h r:! Minjst:E!r of Health on a pE!I"Sonal bc1si~>. c:.tnd an lnd.iv.iclua1 t•.Jho does not know the Minister of Health 1 o o k s a t l: h (:! f a c l~ ~; i:'t n cl s i;t y s , 'there is a company that is making c::t l o 1. o F rn one y f r' o rn con t 1" a c t s ~~ :i. t h the goVE!rnment, and thE!re is a minister in government who holds a financial interest in that company. ' Mr .

Sper:~kr:H'. they 1~.r:i.ll ask the quE!Stion in thE!ir minds, is there any potent.i<.ill benE!ftt that: might flow to the minister From th·i.s situation? MR. SPEAI<ER: 01"dC::H', pJ E!aSE!! I haVE! hE!ar·d the pcdnts Lhat: Lhe hon. rnernbC'!r' :is IT1aking . Has he dny new potnts? MR. BARRY : I wiJl finish in less than one minut.e, in th:ir ·t: y sc:•conds, M1". SpE!akE!r . r-s ·tl'lE! r E! a n y p o t e n U. a 1 i n t e r E~ s L t~ o Lhc::! rrrint~:; t-:.<::!1" "Ln l~he IAJi:lY he:' performs his duties? 1 have no rei:H ' !:-.hal: lht:! tn:i.rds t("! l" IAJOUJ.d act No. 48 R2613

in anything other than with the highest integrity, the highest of ethics. But, Mr. Speaker, what we are dealin-g · with, unfortunately or fortunat.<~ly, when tJJe get into public life we all have to know this is the tJJay we havE• to handle our affairs. There ar'E! strangE!rs out. thel"c:! t;.Jho ~ins-i.st: that~ t~.Je bE:' like Ceasar's wife and that we not only bE! tJJithout blemish, not only be without having our hands actually ln the till, but we be never in a position wherE! anyone rnig h t say tlv~ -1.: our hands CH'e in the till. And that is the problem that is hc:1rc->. noL\J, Ml". Speaker.

Whether or not Uw rninisb~r .i.s bl.r.tmGlc~ss, spotlc:1ss, tAdthout knowledge and so forl:h~ t•.Je hdt.Je a s:itueltion whE:H'e t.hE!I"E! is a pcd:E!ntial bE!riE!fit that could hc:'IVE! gorw l::o l.:i-1(! lrl"i.ni.s b:1r a n d t h a t mE! a n s Uw 1, E! i s a n a c t u a l conflict of interest. Mr. Speak E!r I I do not want to see the MinistE!r of Health in any IAJay, any more than I want to see the Leader of the Opposition, have his character· at ·tacked in this House. I think we have to deal with this in a fashion.

It may rE!SUlt in the amendment of these Conflict of Intet"est ReguJ.ations and, if that happ•'!l'lSI thon WE! should do thr:·lt. And I would ask the Government H o u s e L e a cl e r t o c o n s J d t'?. I" t. h a t. po~::sibly you may haVE! r.:o say, and this ts l~.he '.i.s!;uel i.F c1 ITIE:!rrtbt:!l" or a ITiinis ·l~E·r puts hi s shai"E! in t r· u !> t.

I do(! s that -L hen mod n h (,1 h C:-\ s no responsibility fcir ensuring t h eft l L h (~ c o ITI p a n y -L n IAJ h i. c h h Cc1 h o J d s ti'IE:' shaloE! does businE!SS tAril.:h goUE!('rlm~:!nl.:? '(~~ h~~ lhc:!n r'l.bsolvecl as long as hE! has an actual ti"ust situal:ion set up? Thi:1l: l.s c1n JsSUE '!, I th:inkl r~hat lAJE! couJ.d Uei"Y usefu11y debc:1LH in l::h"i.':; 11ouse·;- aln~:i.sing ou ·l: of th'is par·ticulal" s:i.t:uat.ion. L2614 June 2, 1988 Vol XL SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

As hon . rnembet"S l<notAJ thE! roTe of the Speaker is to determine tJJh(:!thE!r' a pr'iln<:-\ facil'' c<:.tse h<:.ts been established. I wJ.lJ certainly take this matter under advisement and report to the House at a· lat.er datr:1. MR. DAWE: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the mE!rnber· of IntergoverniTiental Affairs. MR. DAWE : Ml". SpE!ai<E!r, I tJJould likE! to g::i.vE n o -t-. i. c E:! l:: h c'1 t·. I d :; :; o o n <:,1 :; 1 h a

t) e a n opportunity to rE:•uieLIJ U ·H:• J-lc:H1SiH'·d of l~oddy I baSE:!d on l"·etni'il"ks ITiadt:! by the mE!mber for Fogo (MI". TuJ. k), I will be bringing forward a point of privilege which I think, Mr. Speaker I has a direct bearing to thE! kind of attitude and Hw ld nc of approach being rnade by the Opposition on the issue we have just dc.;!bated for an hour and thirty-five minutes. 1 would like to give notice . SOME HON. MEMBERS : 1·1 c::' a r' I hear' ! Ml~. BAIRD : A point of order, Mr. Speaker . r'l R . S P E A I< E R : l"h E:! ho n . lJH'! tm'rnbc:! I" f o t" 1·1 urnbc.H· West. Mf~.

BAIRD : W'il:h l'''t"!Ft'!I"C:!ncc:! Lo l~.he I"UII'Iar·ks i3 ITiinutE! ago by thE! ITIE'IIIbE•I" fOI" Mount Scio (Mr'. Bar·r·y), I tJJould likt:>. l:o repeat what I did say at the ~Jo. L~B 1~2614

- , _ __ ___,_ __ . __ -- ~- .... ;""' ____ oJ-- ·-· time. I said there was an alleged potential conflict of -Lnteres f.: by the member for Mount Scio J" e g <H' d i n g -t: h e 0 c ~~ !.'1 n R a n g e r . I eli cl not say there was any wrongdoing. 1 said there WclS a potential one ~30ME liON. r"'EMB E r~S : Oh, oh! MR. BAIRD: in the"~ sarne said ther"e ve:ln as lhE:~ mE:'Jnber was a potential conflict of t nterc"~s t IAJ'i th thE:~ Minister of Health. That is exactly L&Jha t what I m~~ant. I said and that. is MR. SPEAKER: Order, pJ.ease! There is no point of order.

ThE! han. member took the opportunity to explain his point of view. Statements by Ministers MR. BARRETT : Mr'. SpeakE:~r. MR. SPEAKE I~: The hon. the Min'ister of Development and Tourism. 30ME HON. MEMBERS : -·-·-····---·------··-----Hear·, hE!ar! MR. BARRETT: ·rhank you, Ml". ~)pE~akc~!ln . I am r'E:!ad:lng t:hl:; M·in:istE:~r-.i.<::tl. StatE!ITrent on behalf of my colleague, the hon. Hugh fwome~, thE! Minister of PubJ.'ic Works and SE!l"Vic~:~s, IAJho cannol:: be~ IAJ.il:h us t.h:is afternoon.

I am pleased to announce that government has taken the 'initiatiVE! to E!Slablish a CE !IltraJ. purchas'ing authority under lhe L2615 June 2, 1988 Vol XL provisions of the Department of Pub1i.c Works c\nd Servi.CE!S Act. Our aim is to direct, through - greater co-ordination of effort, thE! procurement E!Xpendi tures of government depctrl:ments and government funded bodies to prornol:<:! gr--eater r:'conorn:.i.c ciE!Veloprnenl: opportun:itiE:·s w-.i.thin t. h J. S . P I" 0 V .i. n C ('! . T h e C 0 J. 1. r:! C t :i.

V 1:! purchases within the provincial public sc"~ctoin c,~s t:imatr :!d to bE! some $650 · million annually is a powc~r·ful tool to bE:~ hi:H'ness(~d toward greater economic developmEH1 t. Government is in the process of est.ablislrlng a boar·d to guidE! the overall development and implementation of the centralized procurement initiatives.

The board j_s l:o be cornpr·ised of· off:LciaJs of the Depcll~t:rnE!nt oF P u b 1 i c W o r· k s i:'l n d S l'! r tJ :.L c C'! s , l:: h e Department of Development and Tour·'isrn, Tr·easUI"Y Boar·cl, and ·.is t.o include representation from the hospital sector, school boards, the Federation of Municipalities, r"'t-)l'nOin ·.i.al UntV('!rS i Ly i'll'ld Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro . The board will assembJ.e purchasing dctla from all gov0rnrnonl funded b o cl 'i E! s .

F I" o rn L h :l ~; , L l·r e D e p d I"' 'i: 111 E:! n i.~ . oF DeVE!l .oprnE~nl·. <'lnd Tour--·:LsiTl 1~1 . .l.ll identi .fy la1ngE• volumE! pr·oclucts and producl classifications which if acquired co-operat'ively or pr.lrchds(~cl in bulk IAJould Ci"~:!c:tte a market For local entrepreneurs. Il~ .l.s envj .s i:'lged that lhr·ough this opportunity 'idE!ntificc:'l·U.on process and r·esultant . co·-operat.ive procurement arrangements, local bus'inE!SS~:!s ITiay b~:! abl.E! t.:o t:•xpand thE!ir· pr-oduct l:Lnes, E!Xpand theil" distribution facilities and perhaps even create further manufacturing ln the Province.

The approc:'lch :i. s to be a No. 4·8 R2615

... · ··..-- ·~ ···- .... ·-·· ·····-- ·- ..--·· ·~·· ··-· ···- ··,o•• ·- ... ·- .- - . -._- --· ···· . ·-·- - co-operative one requiring the support of all government funded bodies. Government expects that through - tollective efforts in purchasing l:wo main benefits IAiill be derived. Firstly, the preSE!nce of a readily identified market will entice local suppliers and manufacturers to invest in expansion or undertake additional development. Secondly, through joint purchasing, government funded bodies u.Joul.d lih~ly obtc:dn bE!tter prices with a resuJ.tant savings to their respective organizations.

In an <-:!Ffort t:o expl.;:~tn th~~ benefits of the centralized pur·chds:i.ng COnCE!pl.:, rny coll.E!ctgUE!S the Han. Len Simms, President of T r' ~~ d s u I" y B o 1H' d , rn y c o 1 J <o~ i'1 g 1 1 C:! t: h e Han. Hugh TL.uorn€:!y, M:l.nistE!r' of F'ubl.:i.c WOI"kS and :;)C:!I"l.J:i.C(!S, di'ld rn y s E:~ 1 f c o n u e n e d a s ern i n cH' o n May 30 and 31 of this yoa1". ReprE:~sental::iVE!S of aJ.l goVE!rnmE!nt funded bod.iE!S al-~l:€:!ndE!d at Luhich the importance of co-operative procurement as an effective development tool was explained and their support for this ini ·tiative IAJas solicited.

I might also mention that the assembly of so many officials from the various government departments and governmE!nt funded bodies fol" this purpose afforded us an excellent opportunity to discuss the implementation of The Public Tend E!r Act ~ and ThE! Pl"ovincial Preference Act and to learn of t.hc:;~:ir Co'XpE:~l"iC~!I'lCE'S lAJ·:i.th the nE!lAJ lr:~gisl.i3.t.ion.

Co v ~:! r' n rn e n t ' s s u p p o r t o f i:1 c C:! n t I" d l. pUI"chasing au ·thol":it~y I"E!flects our ~:;tr·onq dr::!sj_r· n i.:o sr :··izr:~ wha t c~~JE:!I" opportunities there may be i:'\Ur't--i .lable ·l_·.o sl-.i. rnlil. d i·.n C:!COnorn ·ic d l~ v e l o p l'n e n l: IAri t h j_ n t h E! P I" o v i n c e . In t h t s p d r· l:. i c ul a r ca se , ~~~c ~ f e C:' l there is . potential for increased L2616 June 2, 1988 Uol XL economic ac-ti,Jity thr·ough co-operative procurement efforts among all government funded ·bodies rather than the fragmented situation that now exists.

With the goodwill and support of all Lhose involved, I feel confident that our provincial pub]ic sector procurem ent can effective tool development . MR. GILBERT: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : I:H:' co ill e fol" a more ec onom ic The hon. the member for· BurgE!O B;::~y d 1 F.:spo i.r. MR. GILBERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . 1 thank thE! rrd.nistE!I". I r~:!ceivc~!d a copy of th--i_~; yc~sl:E:!I"clt'ly l"eally , so I haVE! had sorn<:! time to havE:! cl l. o o k at -L i:. . T mu s t: s c1 y L&Je , on this side, arE! very happy to see l l • • 1. t b . . l . l ~ c1J.S .lS t'l po. J.Cy ·-.o E! .li'l.l ":.:la ~.(!CI.

The Central Purchasing Authority is a n~ally good idea. As a rnatte1~ of fact, I lAJould almost think that maybe one of the ministers I)Jer·e at the HoLiday Inn on September 23 last year when the LE '!dciE•I " of the ~! Opp ositi on recommended it in his speech tc t h e 3 o a I" d o F T r' a cl u a t t. h a t. t. 'i. 1 n e . It wa s a programme towards (;E!lf-- -suff '·i.c-.-i.c,~ncy. WhaL hl:! said al'. that time was developed poli cjes lAJ o ul. cl "i. n t I" o d u c E! 1 n (!a s u r· e s l:. c establish a self-sufficienc~ pi"091"dlflrne, Pl"orno l:.f'! i:.,1nd pr·ov:i.clr::!

For · .a maximum level of s e 1. f-s 11 f·f j_ c .i en c y .i. n goo cl ~' an c! service s within th e Province, pI" o l.J i. c:l t'! 1.~J"i . de s 11 p poI" 1·: Fur· good s produced w:l.Lhin the s ('! "L r~ . s I I r~ F '"i. c i. l'! n c

I) p I"' (l <j r' a rn In(~! ' F:inanciaJ., mark E!t~ing, aciv:i soi".Y al'lc o l:: h ''! r d s s _i s 1.: d n c e , a n d L o h C'! 1. F SE!lf --sufficiency l:o bE! unclE!I"takE!n. No. IJ.8 R2616

... -•• •-• •-+ •-n-• •- -· .--- · •- •- - ·.,. ••-••- ••--"'- --- - •·• 4<••••--.•----• - - - .. ~• .. •·•-- ·-- --- ·••-- _.., -- - ·-------- ·•- ••• ,. .. _._.... - ··- • - - So I would say it is a policy that we, in the Liberal Party, have expounded and it is one of the p o 1 i c i e s ·-i;Je c c~ r t eli n 1 y a g r· c,~ (:' tAd 1:: h . No1.u, I hope, by thE! governmE!nt l.akl.ng t:.h(~ .lnitiett:'i.vE~ aL th.is time, it will do something with Uw Sl:~r ·"Lous youL.h urwrnp1oyrrH:'1'1t IAH~ 1·1 r..\ u c.::~ :1 n t h e P l'' o v i n c E! . I h o p e i 1: IAJill. Sl:Op \:h(;!

Olli:.f=-JOIAI oi­ Net~JfOUI'ldlandelnS u.Jho have to ·go to thE:~ mcd.nl<~ncl looking For jobs . I hope it will not be another scheme to save some of their Tory buddiE:'S u.Jho JnvE~sted in ti'w offshore rathE!r ill-advisedly s e v E! n or· e J g h t y e a r s ago a n d a r· e now hanging on trying to stave off bankruptcy for the last five or six years. So I hope it is not going to bE! use d as a panacea For some of their Tory buddies. MR. BARRETT: You s t.:ar·ted (inaudible). MR. GILBERT: off alr·ight, b Ll t nou.J .If it is handled properly, 'i.t is C:-l good policy and it 1.uill lead to self-sufficiency.

If l.t lc :'dds to SE!lf-sufficiency, as it supposedly t.~.Jill., then .it can only do good for· thP Ul'IE!mployed and the N r::! IAi f 0 I I n ell. i'l n cl . (! c () n 0 In y I i_ n q (! n I'! l" o:'l 1 . t d tn SIll" l;! I.AJ(~ , S E! (:~ ".i. 1'1 g i'\ S IAH'! l"E:!COlTIITIE:!l"lcil::!cl il:. i:'l.nd LhE! Lec\clc·r· of OUI" pdr·l:y expoun1led Lh ·i.s "~t Lhe spel"~ch l:o the Boa1~d of Tt~c~cle on Sl'!pi:.E!l'nbE:!I" 23 or=- 'l.dsL y<:!dl", I.AJ(~ wholeheartedly support this. MR . FENWICK : Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER : The hon. the member For Menihek . Mr~. FENWICK : Mtn.

Spc•aker, as Social .lst Party of LeadE!r of a this Province, L2617 JunE! 2, 1988 Vol XL I am glad to see that the ITIE!rnber for· St. John•s West, the Minister of Development and To·urisrn (M-ln. - B a t' r· (,~ t. t ) , a n d t h e o t h e:~ r· rrri n i s t E! r s arE! adopting a good socialist jJ(!l~SjJ(:1Cl.JUE~ on l:hc:~ IAJdyS i.n IAJhj.ch we should develop our economy. Ml~. LONG : II eat~, hoar·! Ml~.

FENWICK: One of the basic principles socidl Lsts hi:'1VE:~ i.s goUE!rnrn("H1t has a managing role to play in the oconomy and obviously the purchasing power is a good soc.iCJ.l.ist pr·inciplE! for t:he rnE!rnber to adopt . It: is j nteresting to see that as hE:~ matures and as he ages, the rnE!rrtbE!rs of Uw Cab:LnE!t are nou.J . adopting a bed:. te:1r socialist perspective on :Lt. And, of cotH'SE:', IAJE! lAH:'lCOifl(:! LhE! facl: that the socialist leader of l::he Liberal Party ls position to endorse concepts as interesting occur. MR.

LONG: lAH~ l.l . to seE! also in a those kinds of It is just these things Hear, hear! It is very practical . MR. FENWICK: T h r:! o L i'l u i" rnakE!, Ml". c u 111 rne n t SpE!akr:!Y', T L.JO u l cl iS l.·.hE! pttrch<:·\s:i.nq sysl:em ;:-1 nd l .. .i. k i:!! t:.n cE:!ntral 1.: h (;~ Lhe preferential policy are also k i. n d s 0 r p I" d c t j c (:~ s b e ..i. n lj F (' 0 I~J n :'• d on VE!r'y · substant'i.Cll1y by Lhe Fr·<:•e ·rr·adE! Agi"OHI'TlE:!ni.:. Undl;!r' l:.hose circumstClnces·, Mr. Speaker, - MR. BARRETT: Do you likE! the put"chasing policy in Cuba? MR.

FENWICK: Maybe we should add thern to tho gr·oup Lhat you talk(:!d dboul:·. l.dsl~. week, right, or yesterd~y. No. 4·8 R2617

Anyway, Mr. Speaker, thE:~ po-Lnt of the matter· is that under a free trade agreement, the preferential puJ"chasiri~( policy, the edge given to loct.-1.l compc:"lniE:~s, could clearly be perceived as a subsidy and it is quite appalling we have the rni n is'\: E! r g Ed: t ·in g to t~ he p cd n t t;..Jher'r:' hH is advocating a policy which he knows and I know and everybody else knows within a year or so is going to be struck down under the maw of free trade we are putting ourselves into. Ml".

SpE!aker, having seen the government has adopted good socialists policies, endorsed by the good soci~llst oppos-Ltion par·tiE~s, I am plE!ased l:o hE!aJ" that o c c u r· r· i n 9 , u n f o r t u n a t e l y , i t J. o o k s 11 k c:• :i. t :i. s a bit t. o o 1 ate t.ui t h thE! FJ"E:!E! ·rr·c.~dc,~ Agrt~c-~1neni·. co1n·i.ng "i.n. 30MF l-ION. MFMBEl~S: I : C"' iH' , h E! a r ! MR. TOBIN: Mr· . Speab~r. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Social Servicc,~s. MR. TOBIN : Mr·. Sp·E!aker, I Luould like to Fii"St of· all say to my hon. collE!aCJlH~s frorn Port de Gr·ave (Mr·. Efforcl) 6tnd Sl:.

John 1 s East. (rJJr·. l .. ong) thc:d: tiH! stal:E!ITIE!nt I tAJC-lS going to make yes tE!nJay on day car'l'! I hav(;• now sent out in the form of a pr'E!SS rE!l(!aSE!. M r· . Speak ('! r· , -:i. t g .i v (;! s rn E! g r· e i'-1 t pJ.c,~asUJ"E! l:oday to inform hon. mE! m b (:! r s ~: h ct t. F r· o 111 t h e p d s I~ F ;" cHn May 19 l::.o June 1, 1988, the clr"!pdr'l·:llll:•nt hr't~; dppr'ovecl ~) r""J .J I Corn1nuntt:y Det;~:!J.oprnent I:>J"oject.s Fo1" t-.:he l:>l "uu .. i.nce. T h c;! -1-: o t a l ·F u n d :i n 9 Et l. l. o c ct t e d f o r· L2618 JunE:~ 2, 1988 Uol XL this per ·i.ocl, Mr.

Speaker·, is $2,495,258, creating 52C employment opportunities ·ftir social assistant rE!CipiE!nts in the Pr·otJince . _SOME HON. MEMB E ~S: HE!ar, h(!ar! MR. TOBIN: To dale this fiscal year, 4,707 jobs have been created through the Empl-oy1nent Opportunities Divisi.on of the Department of Social Services, direc-tJ .y as a rr:~suJ. ·t·~ of a provincial contribution- of $16,413,889. Thesr:~ PJ"ojecl·.s pr·ov.ide cJ.·iPnts with valuabJ.e work experience i"t,'qll'irr :!d lo SIICCE:'SSfiJlly COfflpE![ -~E! in the open job market.

This program has been acknowledgec by l'lli.'tny CC)IIII'fllll'l-i.1:·ies uf' OUI" Province as being extremely helpf'ttl <"tnd usr,'rltl to 'l::hern in the past and I an1 happy t.A.IE! car c o n t t n 1.1 (:' p I" o tJ 'i d "i. n g t h (;! s 13 worthwhile services. Throug~ Employment Opportunities we have assisted many councils b~ providing the111 tAJ.i.th additional workers to compJ.ete man~ maintenance and beautificatior activities undertaken. Just as important, Ml".

SpE!akE!r', C::! m p 1 o y 1 n c:! n t~ F o r· o u r· c 1 :i. 0• n t ~; LU h c h a v e f o u n d t~ h e rn s E! 1 v e ~~ 'i. n cl j f F :i. c u 1 1· . I . t I 1 . I .. pOSJ. ~.lOI'lS, ~:!S .. bl:l .. ·1s 'l(!S i:l SE!I'lSf'! oi · p r i d E! , of s Ed f -· E! s t e E! m a n cl a cl e g r· E! E of c o n f i. d (;! n c C'! , a l ·1. o f tAJ h ::L c h a I" r: also VE!I"Y nE!CE!SSc!I"Y fOI" SUCCE!SSfU] job co1npe l.:Jt.:ion. r./1 r . S p (!

C.-l k 0 r' , t.AJE! i'J.'l \) (! b (! f:! n j_ 11 \! 0 1 \J 1;:1 C with many beautif'icatior ,,., c l:. :i v .i. -1:. :i n s <:'t s I j u :; -1- ITl e n 1·.·. ·oi o n ~=! d , that not only achieves the goal dus.i.gnd1·.c:!cl by l·.he dl'!Pdl" 'i·.IIJE:!n\~ but have helped enhance the thr:iuin~ t·. o u r· ·i ~; ~~- -L n d 11 s t r·y h e I"· E! ·-L n o 11 r No. 48 R2618

Province. We have done numerous home repair programs for seniors and have made a special l'::~ffor·t to employ th~ handicapped people on o u r c a s e 1 o a rJ . T h (.;! r 1'::~ ;u· t~ 1 i. t e r a ll y thousands of groups and indlviduals that have reaped the I:H::'nE:'fil~s of l~hE~ I'::~Xcl'::~lJ.ent l::t..uo-fold p r· 0 g 1" dlTl 0 f 0 I I r' d e p d I" I:.ITl C~ n '1:'. IAJ h-i. C h our department administers. By t.:tAJO -fold, Mr. Spec:·lker, . r rneriln l::hal: boi:h E:~mployer and E!mployees have r• ~o! a p ~~ d t: h (:~ lrli:l J'J y b 1'::~ 1'1 (:~ f i. t. ~~ r'l :; IAJE:~ J.J ~s the community at large.

B r::~ f o r· t::~ c l. o s .i. 1'1 g , rJJ r . s p E:~ a k e r , I would like to update the House on the Federal/Provincial Joint Funded Employment Enhancement P r· o g 1'' i:l m IAJ h i. c h -L s a cl i. f f ~~ r· E! n l: progt"arn, Mr. Speaker. It is the one r·ef='<~1" l::o as th<~ four cor·nHr pn)gJ"arn. The departmE~nt is pr·<;~sently parl:icipal~.j.ng -i.n l::h "i.s and in the last two weeks, Mr. Speaker, we have approved 7 projects at a cost of $481,640 that will. employ and tr·a.in 12'7 people in many sectors of our economy. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. FFFORD : r'l i" . s Fl (:! d k ('> r· .

Mi~ . ~3PEAi<LR: ThE• hon . thE! c 1" i:1 L) ('! . 1\/ll~. EFFOI'W: 1Tlernb E:' I" f o I" T h a n k y o u , 1'-11" . S p e a k e I"' . Pol" I~ cl E• Mr'. SpE!i:.ti<E!l", I am glad t:h!O'I"E! ar·e ~; o mG p ~~ o pl.<'! -L n l: he g i:lll E! r -L e s 1:. o l:i.st:E:~n to the Mj.nist~:!r' of Social ~3l'·r·uJc<=!s (rv'Jr·. Tobin) si··.i:'incl and say lw i~; Pl"OUd to give the people of this Prouince a pride about thE:' on1y Lhing l:hE~y hatJE' to dE!pE~nd on, s·ocial SE!rvtce:~ jobs. W.hc~t a s ham E! f u 1 tJJ cl y f o r t h E! r.11 i n i s t E! r of L2619 June 2, 1988 Vol.

XL Social Services to stand up and say he is proud! Mr. Speaker, 4,707 jobs have bE'E!I1 given by the minister's departmE!nt. NotJJ IAJB only nE!f!d r:lnol.:he:~r· llJ.,3()7 i'lnd lht:• Pl"!':~lniE!I" will haue his mandate of 20,000 jobs c 0 i'll p l (:~ l:. ~~ d 1 11 - . 1 <.·1 ... I"I"'Uirl soc :.d. SE!I"'ViCE!S. MR. TULK: i·lr:! p-rornis(:!d forl::y. MR. EFFORD: l'hi:l'i:: 'i.s I.AJhi!l.+: l·.:he:~ rni.n-i.stHr' '.is standing and saying he is proud of. The pE!Ople of ·Uds Province, MY'.

S p '~ a k ~:! r· , h i:l v ~=! n o s ~~ n s t;! o ·F p r· :.i. d !':~ i n working ten weeks for $200 a week, then bc:dng 1dld off and h<:wing to go on U I C for· $12 S a IAJE:! e k w:i.l'.: h t.·lbsoluteJ.y no o·Uwr For·m of inco1ne. Mr. Speaker, all l:.hcd: h<::r.s takc~n place because of this government i s 1:: h e y i.H' E! p u t LL n q p 1'::~ o p 1 t:! o n unemployment jnsurance to save morwy on the backs of· t:he fedE!r'al governrnE~nt.

It is not to Pl"OVide a better future for the people becausE!, if it was, thE!Y would put tr·aini.ng progrr:unmes :i.n pliitCr:!, they would educate those people, and t:hc~y '•JUtlld rn;:q\(U ~;ur·n I.\Jh(;;n t:.hosr:• pE!Op1E~ lAJE!I"E' hii"E!d on, and the• cos1: shi'lr·-i ng t~Jol.Ild bf:! h<~1pc'!d