May

26, 2010 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 27

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today the Chair would like to welcome twenty-one students from cole des

Grands-Vents located here in the city. Students are accompanied today by their

teachers Shrami Herbert, Christine Ross, and chaperone Marc Gauthier.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard: the hon.

the Member for the District of The Isles of Notre Dame; the hon. the Member for

the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; the hon. the Member for the District

of Baie Verte-Springdale; the hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl

North.

The hon. the Member for the District of The Isles of Notre Dame.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DALLEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to acknowledge

the tremendous work of the Twillingate Lions Club. With a history spanning

fifty-seven years, the club continues to support the needs of families and

communities with their generous donations and volunteer service.

In addition to their contributions to the Lions International, the Guide Dog

program and the Max Simms Camp, the Twillingate Lions Club has given so much to

our community. In recent years, the Lions have raised funds to support

initiatives such as: a community bus for disabled persons and seniors, new

equipment for the fire department, a community living program and a fisherman's

community memorial. This is in addition to their contributions to local youth

organizations such as minor hockey, figure skating, Sea Cadets, and the Guide

and Scouting movements.

Mr. Speaker, on May 3 of this year, the Lions Club once again demonstrated

their unwavering commitment to the residents of Twillingate Island. Under the

direction of Lion, and fireman, Mike Johnson, they organized and participated in

a local telethon, pledging $1,000 as a group and raising approximately $41,000

to support the Twillingate Fire Department in their plans to replace an aging

fire truck. The success of the telethon is indicative of the respect and

appreciation residents of Twillingate Island have for the Lions Club and the

volunteer fire department.

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to acknowledge President Rick Lackey

and the thirty-two active members of the Lions Club. I ask all hon. members of

this House to join me in congratulating the Twillingate Lions Club on their

successful telethon and their continued community support.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to once again recognize and congratulate two Junior

Canadian Ranger Patrols from my district who were representing our Province at a

national competition.

Mr. Speaker, last week at the National Junior Canadian Rangers marksmanship

competition in Yellowknife the JCR Mary's Harbour Patrol shooting team placed

second and the JCR Patrol Port Hope Simpson placed fourth overall. This national

competition featured ten teams from five other provinces who were represented by

the top fifty JCRs from across Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Mary's Harbour JCR Patrol on

their second place finish. Members of the Patrol were Daniel Johnson, Jerome

Bradley, Nicholas Cumby, Cassandra Pye, Billy King, and Master Corporal Brad

Rumbolt. I would also like to congratulate the Port Hope Simpson Patrol on their

fourth place finish. Members of the patrol included Maria Russell, Daniel

Sampson, Nikita Penney, Brett Clarke, Randy Russell and Master Corporal Roxanne

Notley.

I ask all members of the House to join with me in extending congratulations

to these outstanding young people who have represented our Province with such

skill and integrity.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Baie

Verte-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Edmund Weir has reached a major milestone. Today, he is celebrating his

100 birthday. With tremendous pride I rise in this hon. House to wish him, his

family and friends a memorable day.

Mr. Speaker, Edmund was born on May 26, 1910 at Little Bay Islands, the

youngest of six children to parents Edmund and Elizabeth Weir. At a very young

age, he began working with his dad and brothers in the cod fishery on Little Bay

Islands and on the French Shore. Later on, he was employed by James Strong Ltd.

as a fish culler. He had a reputation as a very proficient seal skinner,

breaking the record for most pelts skinned in one day.

On November 4, 1933, he married Gladys Hull from Springdale. They had two

sons and three daughters. He continued to work in the fishery, receiving $2 a

cantle, which went to merchants for a living allowance.

In 1967, Edmund moved the family to Springdale and began working as a

carpenter for $1.50 an hour. In 1973, he decided to retire. After the passing of

his wife in 1996, he moved to the Valley Vista Seniors Home in Springdale. It is

there he continues to participate in all kinds of activities, enriching the life

and culture of the home.

Honourable colleagues, please join me in wishing Mr. Weir, his family and

friends a meaningful day of fun and celebration as they share in Edmund's

special day.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Mount Pearl North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize the Knights of Columbus John B.

Kent Council for its commitment and years of service to the City of Mount Pearl

and its residents.

The Knights of Columbus, located on Greenwood Crescent, Mount Pearl, has been

serving the people of our community for decades. Following the lead of its

originating fathers whose inception was in the late 1800s, the Knights of

Columbus have been raising money, supporting causes, and offering a helping hand

in communities around the world.

The Knights of Columbus hold frequent meetings, run community events, and

raise much needed funds to help those in need. Worldwide, they recently came

together to assist the ravage beaten country of Haiti, sending financial aid and

missionaries to help with the clean up after a devastating earthquake ripped

through the already poverty stricken country. Wherever help is needed, you can

be sure the Knights of Columbus are there to lend a hand.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating the

members of the Knights of Columbus John B. Kent Council on their selfless

efforts and the work they have been doing in Mount Pearl. Without a doubt the

Knights are committed to building a strong community that is built on sharing

and generosity. They have certainly helped significantly in Mount Pearl

achieving this goal.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is wonderful to have friends, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to update the House on the three-well exploratory

drilling program led by Nalcor Energy Oil and Gas at Parson's Pond on the

Province's West Coast.

The objective of this program is to provide us with a greater understanding

of the region's geological makeup to assist us in unlocking its petroleum

potential.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that the first well in Nalcor's drilling

program has reached its total drilling depth of 3,160 metres. This represents

the deepest well ever drilled in Western Newfoundland. Nalcor Energy Oil and

Gas encountered gas during drilling, which is an encouraging sign of a petroleum

system.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, the next step is to complete the necessary

testing to determine flow characteristics and overall potential volumes.

Drilling will begin this summer on the program's second well.

Mr. Speaker, Nalcor Energy Oil and Gas has also received approval from the

environmental review process related to its third well, and is making the

appropriate adjustments to its drilling

schedule to accommodate the attached

conditions.

In partnership with our West Coast players, including Leprechaun Resources,

Deer Lake Oil and Gas, Vulcan Minerals and Investcan, our government is working

diligently to promote the oil and gas sector in this region. Mr. Speaker, over

$1.6 million has been directly invested in local and provincial goods and

services through Nalcor Energy as a result of this program. These include site

and road construction and maintenance; heavy equipment for the rig move and

ongoing operations support; diesel fuel for operations; waste management;

trucking and brokerage services; well site geology and safety consulting, as

well as local accommodations and meals. The majority of rig crews employed on

this program are also from the Great Northern Peninsula.

Mr. Speaker, the progress being made in Parson's Pond and the economic and

employment opportunities it has provided is only the beginning of what we all

hope will be a very successful oil and gas industry in the Western Region.

Mr. Speaker, our government and Nalcor Energy Oil and Gas are taking a

leadership role in Western Newfoundland. The initial indicator of a petroleum

system in this well more than justifies the risk in financing this exploration

program.

This program is consistent with our principles of our Energy Plan, and it

will help us to achieve our goals for successful resource development on the

West Coast.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Mr. Speaker, we are all for investing in local and rural communities in this

Province

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: and in fact, Mr. Speaker, we have been highly critical of the

government opposite for not doing that. In fact, Mr. Speaker, what we have today

is $20 million being invested in three oil companies in this Province to drill

for oil off Parson's Pond.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we would say that if you are going to invest that money in

our Province, you invest it into the communities so that they can see longevity

for it and let oil companies do their own business, Minister, in this Province

and do their own exploration because we know that they have the resources to be

able to do it. Our job as a government is to ensure that there is an environment

that is conducive to that kind of operation and that we facilitate it and

encourage it, I say to the government opposite.

Mr. Speaker, this government would have you believe today that we are ready

to embark on a gas development project out in Western Newfoundland, but Mr.

Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: what is happening in Parson's Pond is this: The people in the

local area have always known that there has been oil and gas in that area, just

like we have always known on the West Coast of Newfoundland. The problem has

always been, Mr. Speaker, being able to ensure that we have the right grade and

that we have the actual quantities to develop a feasible operation in natural

gas development, and that has always been the issue.

What government is doing today is paying for this

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: for oil companies who have the resources to be able to pay

for it themselves. Mr. Speaker, as they say in the outport, it is an ill wind

that does not blow some good, I say to the minister opposite, because I guess

there have been some jobs created, even though the bulk of the money is going to

the oil industry, even though it is supporting a large corporation, there have

been some jobs created, there have been some spinoffs in the community. So as

they say, it is an ill wind that does not blow (inaudible)

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of her

statement.

I have to say that she is going to have to forgive me if I do not show the

same enthusiasm as her colleagues in her caucus because, Mr. Speaker, what I

have heard is

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: they were able to drill a hole as far as they hoped to

drill it, and I do not hear much more in this announcement.

I once again question why our publicly held company, Nalcor, is putting money

into speculative drilling.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: We know that other companies, big companies, private

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Member for the District of Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The member has every right to

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has recognized the hon. the Member for the District of Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying, we know that there have been private companies over there.

We know that those oil companies, some of the largest ones around, have rejected

doing further drilling over there. We also know that private companies are

willing to put big bucks into exploration as they are doing out on the Orphan

Basin, two point six metres below the ocean, Mr. Speaker.

So, we know that if there were something there, they would be over drilling,

they would be exploring. Why is Nalcor over there?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Further statements by ministers?

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, firefighters and municipal officials from across

the Province will converge on Central Newfoundland this weekend for the fifth

Fire and Emergency Services Training School. I am pleased to report over 550

individuals from more than 110 organizations have registered for the many

courses offered. These numbers effectively double the attendance of any of our

previous training schools and are a testament to the commitment and the

dedication of our Province's emergency responders.

This year's Spring Training School is being held in Grand Falls-Windsor May

29 to June 6, in partnership with the Town of Grand Falls-Windsor and the local

fire departments. As well, Fire and Emergency Services-Newfoundland and Labrador

has co-ordinated a number of other basic firefighter training opportunities in

areas outside of Grand Falls-Windsor.

Throughout the nine days of intensive classroom and field work, those

registered will be able to take advantage of a dedicated team of trainers who

are prepared to engage participants in emergency management and firefighting

fundamentals. Courses such as Incident Command Systems and Basic Emergency

Management Vehicle Extrication and Hazardous Materials Training help to equip

our men and women with the tools they need to do their job. Our government

remains committed to bolstering and strengthening fire and emergency services

throughout the Province.

Mr. Speaker, these courses aid in establishing a level of preparedness among

our front line workers, to try to ensure each and every person returns home

safely to their families each night. Newfoundland and Labrador volunteer fire

fighting community will receive the required knowledge and skill to protect not

only themselves, but the residents of their communities they serve as well.

In addition, to help ensure as many communities as possible take advantage of

those training opportunities, the provincial government is again making $30,000

available to match training funding, providing assistance to municipalities with

the cost of sending municipal representatives to Fire and Emergency Services

Training School.

Mr. Speaker, it is through our strong partnership with the Newfoundland and

Labrador Association of Fire Services, Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador

and the Province's professional municipal administrators that we realize such

success in enrolment this year. I certainly hope it bodes well for future

training opportunities throughout the Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of The Straits & White

Bay North.

MR. DEAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I would like to thank the minister for an advance copy of her

statement.

I would like to echo our congratulations to the Province's emergency

responders and we realize the importance of them as being one of the most valued

groups in the Province. Many of them, as we know, are volunteers. We all have

them back in our districts in volunteer fire departments and we watch them every

year do Radiothons and different ways of fundraising. We see the addition of new

equipment they bring in and the time that they put forth and so on, and

certainly very important to our Province.

Also, as mentioned in her statement, the people who take time to train; we

would like to acknowledge them as well and realize that we appreciate that as

well. It is always good to see where we are offering courses and different

training programs that allow people to be better equipped and so on. When the

time comes - and unfortunately they do, that we have to respond to fires and

different emergencies - it is good to know that we live in communities that are

prepared for that.

Thank you again, Mr. Speaker, today, and to offer our congratulations to

these volunteers involved this weekend in other courses.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I too thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

I am happy to join in congratulating the 550 participants who will be taking

part in the training. Obviously, the key to success in emergency preparedness is

continuous training and it is good that government continues to put money into

the ventures of training that are going on and co-operating with the

organizations out there that are responsible for this training.

One of the things I once again want to remind the government, remind the

minister, is that in order to be effective these firefighters and other

emergency service workers need full 911 access in this Province so that they can

be present and be at emergencies where they are needed and as quickly as

possible. A lack of 911 throughout the Province hampers them in not being able

to address all emergencies.

I would also like to mention to the minister, and I think she is quite aware

of this and supportive, that we have many women in the volunteer firefighting

sector which I really applaud. I would encourage the minister to speak with

relative other ministers regarding employment equity and the hiring of women in

the non-volunteer aspects of firefighting because the record is not the same as

in the volunteer sector.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, just recently the Minister of Finance stated that he was not

going to consider a change in policy to allow casinos in our Province. However,

announcements last week that the Atlantic Lotto Corporation, along with the B.C.

and Quebec Lottery Corporations, will be launching on-line casino gambling in

the fall. The vision will be gambling on the go, including mobile phones, laptop

computers and terminals at lottery kiosk to access a host of gambling games.

I ask the minister: What is the difference between gambling under one roof

than gambling under every roof in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, this government has made it clear that we do

not intend to have casinos in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. When we

came into office we found that the previous government had introduced VLTs in

1991. There were about 2,700 VLTs in existence at the time. We announced in

Budget 2005, and commenced in the year 2006, a five-year strategy to reduce the

number of VLTs in this Province. We announced that we would attempt to reduce

the number of machines by 20 per cent. Here it is, we are in the final year and

I am pleased to say that we have reduced the number of machines by 26.1 per

cent.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Unfortunately, the minister is not answering the question, so I will try

again. There are currently many unregulated, on-line casino gambling sites but

all of them are from outside of the country. The latest announcement from the

Atlantic Lottery Corporation and other Canadian lottery corporations will see

this change. In fact, the Atlantic Lottery Corporation will introduce its own

on-line casino gambling that will see it compete with these offshore sites.

I ask the minister: What discussions has your government had with the

Atlantic Lottery Corporation about introducing provincially regulated, on-line

casino gambling in Newfoundland and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The ALC has indicated that there is a migration of gamblers in Atlantic

Canada from things like VLTs and the ticket stubs to on-line gambling, which is

illegal in this country, but I understand there are over 2,000 illegal sites

that are up there from all over the world and that there are people in this

Province, especially younger people, who are utilizing those on-line gambling

activities which we cannot regulate. We do not have the ability to regulate,

although they operate in contravention of the Criminal Code of Canada.

Now, some preliminary discussions have take place. I understand that the

provinces of P.E.I. and New Brunswick have made a decision to support the ALC

going that way. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has not made a

decision, neither has the Government of Nova Scotia. There is a meeting of

Finance Ministers in a couple of weeks in Charlottetown, and the Finance

Ministers will no doubt be having a discussion there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We know that on-line gambling is a growing industry, and we know that

Canadians will spend more than $1 billion in on-line casino gambling this year.

I ask the minister: In considering this regulated process, what is the

Province's anticipated cut of these on-line gambling revenues in Atlantic

Canada, and for Newfoundland and Labrador, under that process?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

have made no decision at this time to take

part in any on-line gambling. I

suppose that if the ALC did proceed with that and the Newfoundland government

went along with that, an agreement would be entered into. As to what our cut

might be, at this time there have been no discussions along those lines.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister says they have not decided if they are going to be a part of

this process, but I would assume that you would have the information, minister,

as to what it entails. The Atlantic Lottery Corporation has added some on-line

gambling through PlaySphere. However, those that have been introduced so far are

the safer forms of gambling.

In government's 2009 Gambling Prevalence Study, it estimates that none of the

PlaySphere memberships are problem gamblers. This will change immediately if

Atlantic Lottery Corporation introduces on-line gambling in our Province. The

same study also shows that problem gambling rates for Internet poker is five

times higher than the provincial problem gambling rate at present.

I ask the Minister of Health: Has your department had any discussions with

the Atlantic Lottery Corporation about on-line casino gambling in this Province,

and wouldn't this be in a complete conflict with government's own strategy to

reduce the number of gambling machines in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as I said there has been certain information

provided. The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has not given

consideration to this and no decision has been made to take

part in any Internet

gambling.

Of course, the Internet gambling is already there. As I said earlier, there

are about 2,000 sites that are up there that are totally unregulated. As a

matter of fact we cannot regulate them; we do not have the ability to regulate

them. What the Atlantic Lottery Corporation is proposing is that at least if

they got into that particular business, at least on-line gambling would be

offered in this Province and it would, in fact, be regulated.

They have also made the argument that by doing that there is more responsible

gaming measures that can be put into the system in terms of finding how often

somebody gambles, you would allow persons to put limits on how much they want to

gamble, to put time limits on. It is early days, Mr. Speaker, we are not there

yet.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question is for the Minister of Health and that is: Have you had any

consultation with the Atlantic Lottery Corporation? Will this be in conflict

with the strategy that the government has already in place to reduce the number

of VLTs in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated on numerous occasions

publicly and in this hon. House, the issue of mental health and addictions is a

number one priority for me in this fiscal year and hopefully out-years. Mr.

Speaker, we are investing significant money in mental health and addictions. I

have outlined on numerous occasions the kinds of money that we put into

addiction.

One of the unfortunate realities of life, Mr. Speaker, is that certain people

become addicted to substances, to gambling, alcohol, tobacco. As a government,

what we have to do is balance the imposition of governmental power in saying to

the public you can do this or you cannot do that, with the ability to regulate.

I have not had any discussions with the Atlantic Lottery Corporation in terms

of the reduction of VLTs; that is something that comes under the Minister of

Finance's department. What I have been doing, Mr. Speaker, is dealing with the

addictions. We have recently announced a new adult addictions treatment centre

in Harbour Grace. We have the youth addictions centre in Grand Falls-Windsor and

we are investing significant money, Mr. Speaker, in the treatment of addictions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House of Assembly the Minister of Natural

Resources indicated that a German company had shown some interest in occupying

the expropriated Abitibi mill in Grand Falls-Windsor. However, as well, Mr.

Speaker, the day before the Minister of Transportation and Works was quoted in

the local paper saying that they were 99 per cent sure as a government that they

would be decommissioning the mill out there.

So I ask the minister: Is the mill on the dismantling list at this stage, or

is it being sold off to another operator, or are you still trying to find a way

to give it back to Abitibi-Consolidated?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, again, obviously from the aspect of

Transportation and Works, we are securing the mill and in securing the mill we

are out with six or half a dozen displaced workers from the mill working there

on security, keeping the basic systems going, basically keeping the lights on,

awaiting a decision as to where we go forward with the mill, very encouraged by

the news yesterday that there is an interested party. So, right now we are just

holding in a holding pattern, neither decommissioning nor commissioning, I

suppose, and waiting as we see what happens.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Now that the Minister of Works knows about the German company, he has

obviously changed his tune since Monday when they were 99 per cent sure of

dismantling it.

Mr. Speaker, since this company has toured the mill, I ask the minister if

she can tell us what interest they have shown in that particular paper mill and

also if they have been touring any other closed mills in the country as part of

their sightseeing visit.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, this company contacted us sometime ago

expressing an interest in the mill in Grand Falls-Windsor. They have initiated a

number of contacts with us. We have provided certain information to them. They

expressed an interest.

Mr. Speaker, before I would engage with them, it was important to me and to

this government that they come, have a look at the facility in Grand

Falls-Windsor, understand exactly what it was that they were dealing with, and

that we would move forward after that process had taken place.

The indication of their seriousness, Mr. Speaker, is they sent somebody from

Germany to have a look at this mill. When I asked him what his observations

were, he told me quite frankly that it was exactly what he had expected to see.

They have gone back to do some work. We expect to have some kind of a submission

from them in the next month or so, Mr. Speaker, and based on that we will see

where we go.

It is early days early, early days, Mr. Speaker

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So the minister is not aware if the company has been looking at other closed

mills in the country.

Mr. Speaker, the minister also indicated that she had met with the company

and she advised them of what this Province has to offer, and I ask her today:

Will the past power arrangement that was held by Abitibi be available to any new

operator of that mill?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, when the members opposite sat over here they

certainly had no expertise in developing deals, negotiating contracts, as we saw

on a number of occasions in the fourteen years of their mandate. Voisey's which

we had to renegotiate, I tell the Opposition Leader, Mr. Speaker. Not one job in

the Voisey's Bay contract - not one job guaranteed, Mr. Speaker. Thankfully we

were able to correct that last year and now have secured 8.9 million person

hours of work for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the work of this

government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Now, Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to debate their record on

negotiating any time, but one thing I am not prepared to do is engage in a

negotiation of a contract with anybody who is prepared to make an investment in

this Province on the floor of the House of Assembly with somebody who does not

have the facts.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the minister is out there promoting this operation and trying to entice a

new operator for the pulp and paper mill in Grand Falls-Windsor, I ask the

minister, they must have something that they are offering these companies.

I ask her again, Mr. Speaker: Will the past power arrangement that was held

by Abitibi be available to a new operator that is looking at coming into Grand

Falls-Windsor?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, what we have to offer are the people of the Central Region of

the Province, the people of Grand Falls-Windsor who have 100 years of

accumulated experience in operating our forest operations in this Province and

making pulp and paper. What we have, Mr. Speaker, is a land and fibre three

times the size of P.E.I. that is available for production here in the Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, we do have access to cheap industrial power.

That is a pretty powerful package to put on the table for anybody who is

considering an investment in this area.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe I will put it to the minister this way. If there is a company

interested in coming into Grand Falls-Windsor, will there be a deal on the

power? Will they have to now go through Nalcor Corporation to negotiate a

separate power deal at a separate rate in order to be able to operate, I ask the

minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Absolutely! Absolutely, Mr. Speaker!

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition almost seems to me to be angry

because somebody has expressed an interest in doing something in Grand

Falls-Windsor.

Mr. Speaker, Nalcor is managing those assets on behalf of the people in

Newfoundland and Labrador. We are a good place to invest and we have shown that

in three major oil deals that we have negotiated with a value to this Province

over the life of those projects, Mr. Speaker, of $35 billion. So I think we know

a little bit about what we are doing over here when we are negotiating with

companies.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: We saw, Mr. Speaker, what this government does when they

negotiate with companies. That is why we have two pulp and paper mills closed

down in this Province already, I say to the minister opposite. That is why we

have no industrial development on the horizon right now, minister. If there is a

company out there serious, put it on the line, tell us what it is. You are not

even telling us if there is any power going to available to them.

Let me ask you this: Will the timber rights, Mr. Speaker, that were held by

Abitibi be available to any other company that comes in to operate under those

conditions?

MS JOHNSON: At least we have them.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate a point just made by my

colleague, the Minister of Environment and Conservation, at least we have them!

Because we would not have them

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: If we had left it to them we would not have it. They

stated that time and time and time again in this House, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we held 280,000 cubic metres of wood so that we could use it for

industrial development in Central Newfoundland. Mr. Speaker, we have a very good

company coming out of Germany that have expressed an interest in that fibre. Mr.

Speaker, we are going to follow that through and if something good can come of

it, we will take advantage of it. If it does not work for the people of Central

Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker, if it does not work for the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador we will not be inking any deals. We will wait until we get the

right deal.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The questions are quite simple. We know the government could not negotiate to

keep Abitibi in Grand Falls-Windsor. We are asking today, Mr. Speaker, in a

negotiation with another potential customer, as the minister allows, if there is

going to any energy rights reserved, if there is going to be any timber rights

reserved, and they are not prepared to answer those questions. Well, Mr.

Speaker, let's see if she will answer this question.

I ask the minister, Mr. Speaker: Are they committing to deal with the

environmental liabilities around that particular mill before they do any deal

with any potential customers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy

Premier.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, let's get one thing straight. Abitibi was not looking for a deal

in Grand Falls Windsor. Abitibi was not looking for the people of Newfoundland

and the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to keep that mill operational.

They were in very, very serious problems, having very serious problems, on the

brink of bankruptcy, Mr. Speaker. They would not talk to us, they were moved on.

They had bigger fish to fry. So let's get that one straight first Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, Corner Brook Pulp and Paper are operational here in this

Province, with tremendous support from this government and providing work to the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador. We will continue to support them where it

makes sense to do so.

Mr. Speaker, there is no investor going to come in and spend money in

Newfoundland and Labrador unless they can get a good return on that investment.

We are not interested in doing business with stupid people, Mr. Speaker, and

this company is not stupid. So unless they get the deal they want, and we get

the deal we want, we will not be doing business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Great speeches, but no answers.

I ask the minister again: Are you committing to clean up the environmental

liabilities at this mill before signing on with any company? Is that the

commitment that you are putting out there to these people today in order to

attract business?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural

Resources.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUNDERDALE: Mr. Speaker, anybody who had any understanding of how this

work is done, anybody who had any interest in seeing a successful investment in

the Central part of our region that would help grow that economy again, will

welcome the news that was announced yesterday and do everything they can to

support it.

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, it is very early days and these questions have

yet to be determined. We do not have all of the answers. I said that very

clearly yesterday

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS DUNDERDALE: I am saying it again here in the House of Assembly

today, Mr. Speaker. We will find the answers to these questions and when we have

something in terms of a package to put forward, with all of these questions

answered, we will be forthcoming with it, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is ready to roll its legislation for a

single national securities regulator to replace thirteen separate regulators

with thirteen separate sets of rules.

I ask the Minister of Government Services, Mr. Speaker: Will this government

be supporting or rejecting this initiative by the federal government?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, we have had a lot of meetings over the last

couple of years with regard to security regulation in Canada and in regard to

the passport system. A lot of work has gone into the passport system. We still

support that passport system, but we are very interested in regard to the

process and the proposed legislation that has now gone to the Supreme Court of

Canada for a ruling in regard to security regulation. There are certain items

that we would want addressed before we would be able to support that single

regulator system in Canada. It has merit, the same as the passport system, but

we will wait to see what the Supreme Court decision is and then we will make

decisions thereafter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Notwithstanding any court challenge, the federal government is ready for this

to roll now, as we speak.

In the past, the minister, Mr. Speaker, responsible for this, Government

Services Minister, has stated that certain conditions had to be met prior to

agreeing to this new federal single regulator, including the fact that there had

to be a regional office for the new regulator and compensation to this Province

for a loss of revenue.

Have these conditions been met to date, as far as you are concerned,

minister?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: First off, to correct the hon. member across the House who

asked the question, Mr. Speaker, is that this piece of legislation is tabled in

the House of Commons but it is not tabled as a piece of legislation. It has not

been given a number in the House of Commons, it is therefore information only.

I had a conversation with the Minister of Finance at about 7:30 yesterday

evening in regard to that piece. So now we will see what the Supreme Court will

rule in regard to if it is legal or not to move forward on that piece of

legislation. In the meantime, during the summer months we will meet with the

minister in Ottawa at his request in regard to the items that we want addressed

before we would support that piece of legislation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

While we do not have a very active security sector compared to some

provinces, Ontario, Quebec and so on, and Alberta, we still have local companies

who raise investment capital within this Province.

How will this decision impact on their ability to raise needed public equity

capital?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, the way the securities regulation system works

in Canada right now in regard to Newfoundland and Labrador is that we engage a

regulator in one of the provinces that have regulators placed in them. Then, in

regard to those particular companies, they deal with that single regulator in

regard to the process they have to go through.

In regard to this piece of legislation in regard to the federal government is

that we derive about $7 million worth of revenue from the security system in

Canada as it sits today. We have to have that protected as long - we would

desire to have an office placed in Newfoundland and Labrador as well in that

process.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The MMSB issued a tender that was advertised the weekend in The Telegram

for a turnkey operation for the compaction and redistribution of used tires in

the Dunville area.

I ask the minister: What exactly is the purpose of this tender? Will the

Dunville storage yards close? Are you looking for someone to move the tires and

store them elsewhere, or is there finally a proposal presented to government

that will address this problem once and for all?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Environment and Conservation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, by my estimation we have about five minutes left

to Question Period, so perhaps a minute per question.

Yes, there was a tender issued; we are dealing with the tire issue. In the

interim, we are trying to develop whatever measures possible we can to cut down

on the costs that we spend there to store the tires and provide security. This

will further cut down on the cost. They will be baled in a way that can be used

when the proposal that is before us hopefully comes on stream. In terms of

safety, this will be a more safe method on a go-forward basis as well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the latest Student Drug Survey reported that 12 per cent of

Grade 12 students played video lottery terminals, or VLTs; a rate that is twice

as high as in the other Atlantic Provinces. Mr. Speaker, this arena is not where

we want our students to be leading in the Atlantic Provinces.

Mr. Speaker, playing VLTs is not the kind of entertainment we want our

children to be engaged in either. We do not want thirteen-year-olds sneaking

their parent's credit cards to play the machines.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Finance: What is this government going to

do to deal with the issue of the use of VLTs by children?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I read the in

preamble to the motion that we

are going to debate later today and moved by the Leader of the NDP, it referred

to this study. I must say I have some real difficulties with those numbers

because for that many junior high school students and high school students to be

actually gambling on VLTs, they have to get into these bars. That is prohibited

and if that is the case then the police are going to be asked to crack down on

that in a major way.

I really have some concerns with some of the numbers in that study.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Well, Mr. Speaker, I have to ask the minister if

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS MICHAEL: - he is so concerned about the figures in that study - and I

am as well - and he has known about that study for a couple of years, what is

the minister doing about the information that is in that study? Has he taken any

action to find out, number one, if the numbers are correct - I have no reason to

think they are not - and, number two, how these young people are getting to use

the VLTs?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Again, Mr. Speaker, for young people to use the VLTs they

would have to get into bars, which is not allowed. It could be that they were

referring to on-line gambling. On-line gambling they can do in their home and

there is nothing we can do about that. We cannot regulate that at all,

unfortunately.

This information will, of course, be provided to both the RNC and the RCMP

and we will ask for a report from them as to what is happening here.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I will be following up with the minister on what he has just said, and I

would like to point out there are separate figures in the study with regard to

on-line gambling. There are two separate sets of figures.

Mr. Speaker, the VLT action plan is ending in March 2011 and there is no sign

from government of anything to take its place. The VLT addiction rate remains

unchanged over the period of the last two prevalence studies. Mr. Speaker, this

indicates that the government has been ineffective in reducing the rates of

addiction amongst VLT users.

I ask the minister: What plan does government have for discontinuing making

money from people who are addicted to VLTs?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, we have had two prevalence studies done, one

in 2005 and one in 2009. In 2005, it showed that 90 per cent of the people were

either not gamblers and did not have any problems with gambling. The 10 per cent

were at risk, low risk, medium risk and high risk. Of the high risk, the problem

gamblers were 1.2 per cent. That was done in 2005. In the 2009 study, it dropped

from 1.2 per cent down to 2.7 per cent and those numbers are from what I

understand pretty well on par with what is happening across the country.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I will add to that to that information that the minister said during my

speaking to the motion that will be on the floor of the House today because

there are many more figures to backup the fact that we still have a continuing

problem in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, government is responsible for the health and welfare of the

people in this Province, and yet, we have no one on the Atlantic Lottery

Corporation's board representing those interests. Mr. Speaker, I ask the

minister if this government will commit itself to nominating a representative to

the Atlantic Lottery Corporation board from the Department of Health and

Community Services.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, government has two representatives on the

board of ALC. One is Mr. Terry Paddon, who is the Department Minister of

Finance, and the other is Mr. Kevin Breen, a former city councillor, I believe,

in the City of St. Johns.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The time allotted for Oral Questions has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Tabling of Documents

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Natural Resources.

MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I would like table information here in the House with regard to

the funds expended for Abitibi related work from the Department of Natural

Resources budget totalling $6,916,706.80 in 2009-2010.

MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?

Notices of Motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: This being Private Members' Day, the Chair will now hear

from the hon. Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi who has put

forward today's private member's resolution.

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to rise today to make the following private member's

resolution, to put on the record for today's Hansard:

WHEREAS despite government's Video Lottery Terminal action plan there are

still more than 2,000 machines located in bars and restaurants around the

Province; and

WHEREAS Atlantic Lottery Corporation has itself admitted that VLT access is

too wide; and

WHEREAS according to the Gambling Prevalence Study there are close to 3,000

problem gamblers and close to 7,000 moderate risk gamblers and most of these

nearly 10,000 gamblers are VLT players; and

WHEREAS the 2007 Newfoundland and Labrador Student Drug Survey found that 12

per cent of Grade 12 students played VLTs, a rate twice as high as in the other

Atlantic Provinces, and that 7 per cent of all junior and senior high school

students played VLTs, also the highest rate in Atlantic Canada; and

WHEREAS most of us know of someone who has lost their paycheques, life

savings, jobs, or even their families, due to VLT addiction; and

WHEREAS VLT addiction is a burden on government and society in terms of

health care costs, lost productivity, and the need to support broken individuals

and families; and

WHEREAS government is receiving $75 million in VLT revenue every year, which

comes from a very small number of addicted VLT players who are losing their

savings to VLT machines;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly urge the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador to increase funding to help problem gamblers;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly urge the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador to establish a new plan for an accelerated reduction

leading ultimately to elimination of VLTs.

This is seconded by the Member for Burgeo & La Poile.

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be able to speak to this motion which I

think is an extremely serious one, one that is dealing with a very serious issue

in our Province. The 2009 Gambling Prevalence Study - and I would like to point

out, for the sake of people watching, that these Gambling Prevalence Studies are

done; they are put in place by the Department of Finance who hires an outside

body, a private company, to do the study. These studies have been done twice now

by the Department of Finance, and they are important studies. The current one in

2009 - and I agree with something the minister said during Question Period. The

VLT use has declined in the last five years since the first prevalence study -

that is the overall use - however, the addiction rate among VLT users remains

the same at 6.4 per cent. That is the issue that we are dealing with here today:

the addictive nature of VLTs. It is not gambling; it is the addictive nature of

VLTs. So, even though the use has declined in the last five years since the

first prevalence study, the addiction rate of those using VLTs still remains at

6.4 per cent,

whereas the addiction rate for other kinds of gambling is only 0.7

per cent. So, other forms of gambling do not have the addictive nature inherent

in the form of gambling itself that VLTs have, and, as I said, that is the issue

that we are dealing with.

An interesting thing, another statistic done which our prevalence study

indicates, which we know here in this Province, 72 per cent of all gambling

addicts actually play VLTs. So the gambling, again - it is just another way of

saying it - gambling in and of itself is not necessarily addictive; however,

VLTs have a very inherent addictiveness to them that really does affect people

who have a tendency toward addictions. We know that not everybody gets addicted.

Addiction is a special condition. It is a disease, in many cases, and addictive

habits affect those people more than anybody else. So this is the issue we have

to deal with.

We also know that while the use of VLTs is going down among the adult

population that is not true for younger people. As we have already started

saying here in the House, this is an issue: How are younger people getting at

VLTs? How are they accessing them? They are located in licensed premises. Albeit

they are often in rooms to themselves, they are always in licensed premises, so

how are younger people getting at them? Yet, younger people are getting at them

just as younger people get at anything that is refused to them. Younger people

smoke - younger than they are supposed to be able to - and children drink, and

they drink not just coming from liquor that is in their parents' homes; they get

ways of being able to buy it. They get ways of being able to use alcohol, to be

able to smoke, the same way they are using VLTs. We have to find out how they

are getting the access and who is monitoring. There is obviously a lack of

monitoring going on in licensed premises if young people are using VLTs.

The 2007 Student Drug Survey pointed out that 12 per cent of Grade 12

students played VLTs, a rate twice as high as in other Atlantic Provinces. Maybe

some of those students in Grade 12 would be the same students who are going into

licensed premises to drink, because we know that is going on. That goes on to a

fair extent as well. So maybe they are the same ones who are using the machines.

This is the kind of thing that the minister has to look at. They are getting

access to alcohol in licensed premises, and they are getting access to VLTs in

licensed premises as well.

The fact that 7 per cent of all junior and senior high school students played

VLTs is really disturbing - once again, the highest rate in Atlantic Canada so

we do have to question how this is happening. We definitely have to question how

it is happening. I am glad that in Question Period today the minister made

reference to the fact that he is going to start doing that questioning, and he

is going to start talking to the police agencies with regard to what appears to

be a use of machines on licensed premises by children. We have to find out how

they are accessing it, and we have to find out what is happening with regard to

monitoring, and who is monitoring.

We had a VLT action plan

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, on a point

of order.

MR. MARSHALL: I wonder if the hon. member could just give us some more

particulars on that survey: who performed the survey, who did it, if you have

that information.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There is no point of order.

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I do not have the information for the minister. I do not mind the minister

standing and asking for that. I will have it before the end of today. It is a

recognized study, and a study that is recognized by people in the Province who

are dealing with addiction issues, so I will have the name of that study when I

speak at the end of the afternoon. I have no problem making that available for

the minister, because finally it has caught him, the information that is in that

study, and I am anxious for him to look at it and to take action on the

information that is in that study.

The government does have an action plan with regard to VLTs. Obviously, when

the government put this action plan in place in 2005 it was because they

recognized that VLTs were a problem area for us to deal with in this Province,

but that action plan is coming to an end this year.

I was delighted in Estimates when I learned from the minister that this year

they have reduced the number of VLTs by 24 per cent, and that is really great.

The number of machines has actually gone down, through the action plan, from

2,687 to just over 2,000. That is good news; however, for some reason, in spite

of the fact that we have 24 per cent fewer VLTs, the VLT revenue has started to

go up. It had begun declining, but last year before I say that, from about

2005 on, some decline had started and it went down from $86 million in 2004 to

$65 million in 2007. Then, all of a sudden, there was a jump to $75 million to

government last year.

What is happening? The number has gone down, yet the revenues have gone up.

VLT addiction rates have also not declined. As I have said earlier, the use has

declined but, of those using, the addiction rate is still 7 per cent. Addiction

rates and revenues are not declining as one has hoped.

VLTs are still easy to access, and there are slowdown measures that are used

on the VLTs, but the slowdown measures seem to mean only that people are taking

longer to lose their money - because the money is certainly going out. The

smaller number is not stopping that from happening.

What I am wondering at this point, we have come to the final year of the

action plan and I am hoping to hear from the minister today - because I am sure

he is going to stand and speak to this motion - I would like to hear what the

plan is that government has with regard to assessing where things have gone in

the last five years. We have statistical information, but I would like more

information about how they are going to assess the use of VLTs in this Province.

With regard to the addictive nature of VLTs, addictions are high in this

Province. Eastern Health, for example, has eight addiction counsellors. That is

a high number in Eastern Health. Eight addiction counsellors, but two of those

eight counsellors deal solely with gambling; two of the eight deal totally with

gambling. As I said earlier, studies show us, the prevalence study shows us that

72 per cent of gamblers are VLT addicts. So that means we have a lot of

resources going into dealing with people who are addicted to VLTs and of the

other counsellors, of the other six counsellors, while their time is not

dedicated to gambling addiction they also have training in dealing with gambling

addiction because they too have some people with gambling addictions who come to

them.

As I have said, most of the gambling addictions are among VLTs. So we have a

very serious consideration. Addiction counsellors say that for every client they

have, there are five addicts they never see. Now that could be, one, because the

addicts do not come to see them. It could also be that the addicts cannot get in

to see them because there are not enough resources. The addiction counsellors

themselves are concerned that, of all the addicts out there who do not come for

help, it is a reality.

Government does have a very serious role to play here because government made

a choice to go into VLTs and to start making money from VLTs, but government

also has a responsibility with regard to protecting consumers through

regulations. Government has a dual role, and that is one of the reasons why I,

during Question Period, spoke about the issue of the members on the board of the

Atlantic Lottery Corporation. The two people who are on the board represent

business and finance. The deputy minister from the Department of the Finance is

there, I would imagine, from a financial perspective looking at protecting the

investment of government and the person from outside of government who is on

that board has a strong business background, which is fine, but neither one of

the two people who are on the Atlantic Lottery Corporation from this Province

have any expertise in looking at the whole nature of addiction, especially as it

relates to VLTs, and to be there protecting the interests of the people in this

Province and the interests of people who are addicted. That is not any expertise

that they have and that is not what their main role is, I would suggest.

Here in this Province, government is filling a dual role. It is filling the

role of making its money through revenues in gambling and at the same time

regulating. I think the time has come, Mr. Speaker, as we continue to make money

from gambling, that the time has come for this government to look at the

institution of a gambling commission, as they have in other Atlantic Provinces.

Let the gambling commission do the regulating because this is what is going to

be needed in this Province, especially if the government gets into more gambling

forums, such as on-line gambling, which I am going to talk more about later

today when I get an opportunity to speak.

The bottom line, Mr. Speaker, is that many people out there, business owners,

social agencies, lawyers and health professionals are seeing serious impacts

from VLT addiction. VLT addiction is still costing people their savings, their

relationships and even their lives. There continue to be documented suicides of

people who were addicted to VLTs and lost all hope as they went on.

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to put this motion on the floor. I am really looking

forward to hearing the discussion that is going to take place. I will be really

happy at the end of the afternoon to make responses to any points that get

raised if I can help with the discussion.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to have an opportunity to say a few words in this debate

involving an extremely important issue in this Province, the question of VLTs.

Also, the whole question of gambling and government making revenue from

gambling, the sale of alcoholic beverages, government making money from that,

and government using those monies to provide very worthwhile services and

programs to the people of this Province.

In rising, I do so with some trepidation because I know that there are very

strong views on all sides of this particular issue. I know for myself, in the

past when I talked about the number of VLTs that we have been reducing from the

system, then I get blasted by some of the bar owners who are losing those

machines or some of their employees. I also get criticized by people who say:

You have no right to regulate that. There are many people who feel they are

entitled to gamble in the VLTs. They have no problems with it and they resent

very much the fact that government is telling them what they can do.

On the other hand, one day somebody asked me if I would eliminate the

machines. I said, well it was at a pre-Budget consultation that was taking

place here in St. John's. When I got out, a reporter for CBC said to me: Would

you abolish the machines? I said, well, you just saw all the people who are in

here asking for money. Take away that income - we could have met a lot of their

asks with that income. Then, of course, I got criticized for that. So I know

that tomorrow in the media, the CBC Web site or The Telegram or whatever,

that I am going to be criticized. I just do not know which group will be doing

it.

Mr. Speaker, we do have problem gambling. We do have people who are addicted

to VLT machines. We certainly have sympathy and empathy for those who have lost

a lot of money, who have lost their homes and property; that has led to the

break up of their marriages, and even suicides. We have all seen or heard these

stories and we all have a great deal of sympathy for what has happened.

On the other side, as I said earlier, there are some people who like to

gamble. They say that it is something they enjoy. They have no problem with it,

they are not addicted in any way, and they resent the fact that government would

limit their right to gamble.

There are also, of course, business operators. People who have licensed bars,

who say when we take the machines out, as we did under our VLT Reduction

Strategy, that their businesses hurt and they cannot survive, and they are going

to lay some of their employees off.

As I said earlier, it also provides revenue to government; $75 million, as

the Leader of the NDP indicated. That was in 2008-2009. Some good things are

done with that money, health and education. Some feel it is immoral. It is

immoral for the government to operate the machines and make money from people

who are addicted.

Others feel that if government was not doing it, if government was not

providing the VLTs that there would be access to other forms of gambling, that

people who want to gamble are going to find a way to gamble. Gambling has been

with us a long time. The odds are in the favour of the house; they are not in

the favour of the gambler. That the income will be lost anyway; maybe it is

better for government to step in and do it. At least it is regulated and the

revenue that is earned from it, rather than going to organized crime or rather

than going offshore, like in the case of the computers, the on-line gambling,

maybe it is better for government to do it.

Now, what the answer is I know there are lots of people out there with very

strong views, so what I am going to do, I am going to try to lay out certain

facts, and that will be helpful to everyone in forming their opinion and making

recommendations as to, where do we go from here?

Our government did not bring in VLTs. They were here when we got here. I did

some research and found out that the first VLTs were, in fact, introduced in

this Province in 1991. In that year there were 291 VLT machines, at ninety-nine

establishments. That was in 1991. Then in 2003, when we arrived, when this

government was elected, we found out there were 2,700 VLT machines at over 590

establishments throughout the Province. So we did see a rapid growth.

Mr. Speaker, government looked at it, and we met as a government I believe

it was in the Budget of 2005 that the Minister of Finance announced that

government would be bringing in a VLT reduction strategy, a VLT action plan that

would cap the number of VLTs at the number then in existence. This plan came in,

in 2006, and it was a five-year plan; a five-year plan from April 1, 2006. The

number of machines was capped. There was close to 2,700 machines at 600

locations, and the number of VLTs was capped at that amount. Government

announced that in addition to the cap, they would set out a

schedule and reduce

the number of VLTs in the Province by over 15 per cent over the five years

starting on April 1, 2006.

This would be done primarily through the elimination of multisite

establishments. They were sites with more than five machines. You will recall

that what happened over the years, there might be a business location that would

have so many machines, and they would add a bar upstairs or add a bar or build

on a bar, and then you had really three or more, I guess, little mini casinos in

one. The attitude of the government was, while previous governments had agreed

that people could have these VLTs and were business establishments, that there

was no guarantee - there was no obligation on government to allow someone to

have a mini casino. That is why we felt the number of machines should be

reduced.

So there was a plan to reduce the machines by 15 per cent over the five-year

period. I think in our Blue Book of 2007, we indicated that the Williams

government would enhance the provincial gambling strategy incorporating

prevention and treatment strategies based on research and consultation. Upon

completion of the ongoing video lottery terminal reduction initiative of 15 per

cent, we would further reduce the VLTs by a further at least 5 per cent for a

total reduction of 20 per cent.

What has happened, in 2006, Mr. Speaker, 134 machines were removed from the

system. In 2007, you had 154 machines came out. In 2008, 222 machines came out.

In 2009, a further ninety machines came out. For a total of well, that was 600

to that point.

On April 1, 2010, which is the beginning of the last year of the strategy

you recall, I said it was a five-year strategy starting April 1, 2006. So we are

now in the last year, which will end on March 31, 2011. On April 1 of this year

seventy-three machines came out, which increased the reduction. A total of 673

machines were removed from the system. That is 25.1 per cent. So we exceeded the

goals that were set out in the strategy.

In 2006, there was a second part of the strategy. In addition to the 5 per

cent add-on, there was a restriction in the hours of operation. I think the

machines were opening at 9 o'clock in the morning and they were going until, I

think 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock in the morning. We restricted the hours of

operation on the machines from 12:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. So that reduced access

to the machines.

In addition, there were regulations to reduce the pace of play on the

machines and the stop buttons were removed. As I understand it, when you press

the button the machine starts to spin. There used to be a stop button, where the

player could press the stop button and that would stop the spin. I think some

people thought that was a way they could control the outcome of the game, but it

was not actually. What this did is slow down the speed of play. If you slow down

the pace of play, slow down the speed of play, there would be less gambling

action taking place.

The provincial government committed to an enhancement of the provincial

gambling strategy, and incorporating prevention and treatment strategies based

on research and consultation. I am going to leave it to some of my colleagues,

the Minister of Health and the former Minister of Health, to talk about what has

been happening there.

We are now at a point that as of May 22, 2010, we are down to 2,013 VLTs as

opposed to the approximate 2,700 in 2005 when the action plan was instituted.

With regard to the NDP who talked about the underage people in the Province

that are accessing machines and referred to a study, as I indicated in Question

Period, for this to happen, minors would need to gain access or gain entrance to

licensed establishments which are age restricted sites. This is against the law

and when violations are detected, the proprietors are dealt with accordingly. I

will follow up with liquor inspectors at the NLC and also with the RNC and the

RCMP to ensure that if this is happening, anybody who is allowing that to happen

will be prosecuted accordingly.

Comments were made that government is reliant on these revenues. Government

is not reliant, but the money that is received through gambling revenues is

invested back into programs and services. We are in the final year of our action

plan and it is now time to evaluate that work. The Department of Finance, the

Department of Justice and the Department of Health are now undertaking those

evaluations so that we can determine where we go forward.

It is important to note as well the revenues. The revenues coming from the

machines - in 2004-2005, there was $86.7 million coming from video lottery

machines and of the total gambling revenue that was 74 per cent of the total.

Last year in 2009-2010 first of all, I should say that that number, after the

strategy came in, that number started to reduce as one would anticipate, less

machines, less access to machines, slower pace of pay, less gambling. In 2005,

it dropped to $73 million, which was 69 per cent or about 70 per cent of

gambling. In 2006-2007, it dropped to 65 per cent 64.6 per cent. Then,

surprisingly, it started to go up again. In 2007-2008, it was 66 per cent of the

total money spent on gambling, in 2008-2009 it was about 69 per cent and last

year it was 69 per cent.

I understand what has happened is because of prosperity here in the Province,

because of lower tax rates in the Province, people have more disposable incomes

and personal income, so there is more money available to gamble. I understand

part of it would be the new technology. As newer machines come in, that might

cause a spike in activity as well.

I said last year there was $75.2 million came into the Province the

Province earned from these machines - in addition to the revenues going to the

business community.

As I said, we are in the final year of the action plan and the various

departments of government are now reviewing the evidence that we have in view to

seeing a way that we find a consensus to move forward.

We also recognize a person's mental health is as important as their physical

health and my colleague will speak to this. I do have to mention, of course, I

was very pleased to see the provincial addiction centre - the Humberwood

provincial addiction centre was established in the City of Corner Brook, which

offers a complete rehabilitation service. I spoke earlier about the prevalence

study, but I think as my time is getting lower, and I was hoping to have an

opportunity to talk about the on-line gaming, but I think it is my duty to

introduce an amendment to the main motion, which I will now do, if I can find

it.

The amendment is as follows:

I move that the private member's resolution currently before the House be

amended by:

(1) deleting the second recital clause; and

(2) adding the eighth recital clause which reads "and

WHEREAS VLT use is but

one form of gambling that may be associated with gambling addiction;"; and

(3) deleting in the first resolution clause the words "increase funding" and

substituting therefore the words "continue enhancing programming"; and

(4) deleting in the second resolution clause the words and punctuation which

read "for an accelerated reduction leading ultimately to the elimination of

VLTs." and substituting therefore "for gambling addictions;"; and

(5) adding a third resolution clause which reads "and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED

that the House of Assembly acknowledge that government's significant initiatives

since 2005 to promote responsible gambling, including a five-year VLT reduction

strategy and a social marketing campaign focused on problem gambling, and the

subsequent reduction in the prevalence rates for moderate-risk and problem

gambling."

That is seconded by the hon. the Member for Trinity North.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair will take a few moments to recess.

MS MICHAEL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi, on a point of order.

MS MICHAEL: I do not have a copy of that amendment and I would like a

copy before you start your time for looking at the amendment, please.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take a few moments to recess, have a look at

the amendment and allow both Opposition parties the appropriate time to review

the amendment as well.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, you are

speaking to the amendment?

MS MICHAEL: I am speaking to the amendment, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very

much.

I read carefully the amendment that has been brought forward by the

government, and compared it to the motion that I have put on the floor. I have

to say, from my perspective, as the mover of the motion, Mr. Speaker, that I am

disappointed with the amendment that is being proposed, because the amendment

seems to ignore the issue that the motion is addressing, and that is the issue

that VLTs are a highly addictive form of gambling, much more addictive than

other forms of gambling that we have in the Province, and that we have had

historically. By the changing, especially, to the second BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED,

the change there in particular does absolutely refuse to recognize the nature of

VLT gambling. So, for me, what they have done is changed the intent of the

motion that I put on the floor of the House.

I will respect the ruling of the Chair, of course, with regard to the

validity of the motion, and if the motion is valid I will then, when I speak

further, speak to my disappointment in the government's lack of recognition of

the addictive nature of VLTs.

Just about all the changes they not all the changes, but even the removal

of the second recital clause is wanting to take out any statements about VLTs

that are in any way negative, in which I actually quote the Atlantic Lottery

Corporation itself in saying that VLT access is "too wide". So, I am

disappointed that the government has brought forward an amendment that is

refusing to recognize the addictive nature of the VLTs.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Are there any further comments on the amendment?

The Chair will take a very brief recess to consider the points raised by the

Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi and make a final ruling on the amendment that

is put forward by the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair deems that the amendment as put forward by the

Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to be in order.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to speak to the motion put forward by the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi. Mr. Speaker, the motion is really calling on the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador to increase the funding to help problem gamblers, and

also to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to establish a new plan

for an accelerated reduction, leading ultimately to the elimination of VLTs.

What the government in essence has done, Mr. Speaker, through the Minister of

Finance, has tabled an amendment to that motion put forward by the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi in that it would read now, " that the House of Assembly

urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to continue enhancing

programming to help problem gamblers." Not necessarily investing more money, Mr.

Speaker, towards the cause.

Also, asking that the House of Assembly would urge the government to

establish a new plan for gambling addiction and that they would "acknowledge

the government's significant initiatives since 2005 to promote responsible

gambling, including a five-year VLT reduction strategy and a social marketing

campaign focused on problem gambling, and the subsequent reduction in the

prevalence rates for moderate-risk and problem gambling."

Mr. Speaker, it does not lead to an accelerated reduction in the number of

machines or the elimination of them all together. In essence, I guess the motion

is very different from what was originally tabled here today by the Member for

Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi. Notwithstanding that, Mr. Speaker, no one has a problem

recognizing the efforts that have been made to reduce the numbers of VLTs in the

Province, including putting in place or removing things like the stop button,

putting in place hours of operation, more restricted hours of operation.

While the government might see some purpose in bringing in a motion today

that really pats themselves on the back for what they have done as opposed to

developing a strategy on a go-forward basis that would see you invest more money

into addiction services and eventually the elimination of VLTs, I guess it is

their prerogative as they have the majority of seats in the House of Assembly.

Therefore, they can change motions that are action oriented, just to compliment

themselves on what they have already done. That is what this motion is, in

essence, doing now today.

Mr. Speaker, I will still speak to the issue at hand because it is an

important issue. Mr. Speaker, we know because there have been a number of

surveys done. The reporting that has been done by government in 2005 and 2009

did show us some interesting indicators, but you have to look at it in the

context of what it is, and that is basically a telephone survey in which you ask

people: Do they have a problem with gambling? Are they addicted to gambling? How

much gambling do they do? Do they do it online? Do they do it through VLTs and

so on?

It is like stopping an alcoholic and saying: Are you an alcoholic? It is

basically picking up the phone and calling someone who you know is doing drugs

or cocaine and saying to them: Are you a drug addict? In most cases, Mr.

Speaker, the disclosure is restricted. A lot of people are embarrassed to talk

about addictions that they have, even as part of a telephone survey. So even

though we have some data, I would not really put all of my money on the data

that is there. Simply because it is human nature, Mr. Speaker, that when we have

problems, whether it be addiction problems to drugs, whether it be to alcohol,

whether it be to gambling or whether it be some other form of addiction, more

cases than not we look at ways to avoid confession as opposed to outlining the

actual problems that we have, Mr. Speaker.

While there is some data, I would have to question whether the numbers are

accurate, especially when you see that the number of people addicted to gambling

in this Province has gone down by half, according to that study, over a very

short period of time. Yet, Mr. Speaker, you still continue to hear the stories

about how people's lives are impacted through the addiction of gambling and the

impact that it has had on themselves, on their families, and so on. So you

really have to question that.

Mr. Speaker, government did make a commitment back in 2005, I think it was at

that time, to reduce the number of VLTs in the Province by 15 per cent, by April

of this year. We did see the number of VLTs reduced in the Province. They were

reduced as a part of the number strategy I guess that government signed on to

but, Mr. Speaker, we also know from the Atlantic Lottery Corporation themselves

that a lot of these machines were retired by owners of establishments. Either

these establishments were closing out or they decided to take out the machines

for one reason or another.

What we do know, Mr. Speaker, is that there was a reduction in the number of

VLTs being used in the Province. We also know that there was a maximum number of

VLTs permitted per premises and that has seemed to work fairly well, and we have

seen the reduction in the hours of usage. I still cannot understand why we would

have VLT machines in the Province open at noon in the day. If it is a

recreational activity and intended for recreation, one would think that it would

be open after what would be considered the more general working hours, realizing

that people do work a lot of shift work as well, but, Mr. Speaker, it would be

open outside of those hours which are really considered to be the standard

working hours, as well as the hours spent with family and so on.

Mr. Speaker, we know that removing some of the things like the stop button

and the pace of play on the machines may have helped, and I certainly hope that

it did help. There certainly have not been any complaints registered to any

degree with regard to the elimination of the stop button and reduction in the

pace of play. I guess what I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that gradually out there

those restrictions being placed are being accepted by the general public and

even to a degree by the people who use the machines. That is why I do not see a

huge problem with continuing with a strategy that continues to allow us to

reduce the number of machines and that allows us to put more restrictions on it.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I had a discussion with someone only recently about

using identification, where you can actually get an ID card or a numbered card

maybe it does not have to have your name on it or anything but when you are

going to play those machines you would have to have a card that you insert,

whether you buy it at the counter in a pub or whatever the case may be, and that

card number would have a limit in terms of the amount of time that a person

could use it to play. Say, for example, I would go in and I would put in this

card, and maybe it would entitle me to two hours of play at a time, but just an

example of other things that people have talked about as being further

restrictions that could be placed on the machines.

Mr. Speaker, when people were surveyed in the Province through a CRA poll, 67

per cent of the people said they were aware that government had plans to reduce

the VLTs in the Province. Mr. Speaker, 87 per cent of them said they would

support the reduction in the number of VLTs; only 10 per cent said no, that they

would not. That was a very interesting statistic because it tells me a couple of

things, Mr. Speaker. One is that the broader range of the general public does

not partake in the usage of these machines. It is obviously a smaller number of

people in the Province that actually participate in using these machines, and

out of that number obviously a number of them feel that they could either take

it or leave it. That is the message that I hear when I hear that 87 per cent of

the people said that government should reduce it.

Seventy per cent, Mr. Speaker, supported limits requiring players to cash out

after a specific time. That is the piece I just talked about, about limiting

access to a period of time. Mr. Speaker, that does not probably prohibit a

person from going and buying another card to put in the machine, or into a

different machine, to play, but it would certainly be another impediment,

another inconvenience, and another method in which to try and reduce the

dependency of people on those particular machines. When asked if government

should keep the things the way that they were, 72 per cent of them said no, Mr.

Speaker. Those are interesting statistics from the general public.

Mr. Speaker, VLTs are programmed, according to studies that we have seen, and

this came from some research that was done in Nova Scotia, they actually found

that VLTs are programmed to lead normal gamblers into continuous play and

financial loss, with social and economic problems being a natural, not

pathological, outcome. Of course, they are saying that VLTs with bright colours

and flashing lights and pleasant sounds put gamblers into a psychologically

detached or disassociated state that encourages loss of control and puts all

regular users at risk.

So, the question, Mr. Speaker, that comes to me is whether it is possible to

create responsible VLT gaming and to control the VLTs effectively, while at the

same time we are maximizing profits, we are collecting money on it as a

Province, and so on. I guess it could be seen as a conflict. That is where the

argument really comes down.

I realize that governments today, governments in the past, I guess, ever

since lotto machines came to the Province in the early 1990s, governments have

been earning revenue from those machines. That revenue has increased over a

period of time - it has decreased over a period of time, to, I think, somewhere

around $73 million a year right now, or $74 million a year, in the Province. So,

Mr. Speaker, one really has to question whether governments themselves have

become somewhat addicted to the revenues of VLTs. I am not just speaking about

the government today, but governments in the past, as well, because it has

become a source of financial revenue. It has become a source of financial

revenue and, like the people who gamble and become addicted to the machines

because they win sometimes, their winnings are greater than they expect, that,

of course, develops an addiction. Maybe governments have become somewhat

addicted, as well, in terms of the amount of money that we collect and the

amount of money that goes into the base budget of the Province.

Mr. Speaker, these are the things that, I guess, concern me to a certain

degree, because when you look at that - I am not saying that as a Province we

can easily give up that revenue. There is no government that can easily give up

any revenue, but it is not easy for an addict to give up their addiction either.

It is not easy for people who have those addictions to be able to walk away, and

that is why there is always a gradual process and there is always a process

whereby they are given help and assistance to get to where the ultimate goal is.

That is why we feel that more money needs to be put into addiction services as

well; because, as I said earlier when I spoke, Mr. Speaker, the prevalence study

that was done in Newfoundland and Labrador indicated that there were 10,000

at-risk gamblers. As I said, the study was based on a telephone survey and, as

we know, telephone surveys, in my estimation, would probably be the most

under-reported mechanism that you could use to determine any form of addiction,

and that would include gambling addiction as well.

Mr. Speaker, the number of people actually out there who could be addicted to

gambling may be five times more than what our numbers are actually reporting

today, and that is just an estimate and it is not based on any particular

survey. What we do know is that a lot of people who have addiction problems tend

to shy away from those addictions and they tend to try to hide those addictions.

I think that is very normal behaviour that many of us have seen.

Mr. Speaker, one of my concerns is with the on-line gambling piece, simply

because we are aware that the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, along with other

corporations in the country, is looking at on-line gambling. While we all know

today that we can log onto our computers, we can pick up our mobile devices, and

we can play poker and we can play other on-line games, that revenue goes to

outside interests; it does not really come to the Province at this stage.

We also know, Mr. Speaker, that well over 1,000 something like 1,500 of

those are unlicensed on-line gambling entities that people participate in. We

know that the provinces in Atlantic Canada, as well as others across the

country, are now being asked while they cannot regulate on-line gambling that

is contributing revenues to outside interests, they can develop their own poker

programs and their own gambling programs that will allow the revenue to come to

our own provinces and to the Atlantic Region.

Mr. Speaker, I guess that is definitely one for full debate simply because we

know that it is happening, we know that thousands of people in our Province are

doing it on a regular basis, and we know as well that it is probably an easier

form of addiction than even we have seen with VLTs.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her time for speaking has expired.

MS JONES: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Certainly, there is a lot that I could say on this issue but I thank you for

the time to contribute to the debate.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Business.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to have a few moments today to speak to the private member's

motion that is put forward by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

I want to comment, if I could, Mr. Speaker, initially around the amendments

to the motion itself because I think they are really important. I want to just

correct something that the member opposite said when she expressed her

disappointment that my colleague, the Minister of Finance and President of

Treasury Board, made an amendment to the motion, because she commented and

suggested that the amendment reflects a lack of understanding of the

significance of the addictions to VLTs.

I say, Mr. Speaker, nothing could be further from the truth. My colleague and

our party fully recognize and appreciate the significance of the addictions to

VLTs, but I think and it is important for the members of this House and the

members of the public to fully understand the thrust of the amendment. There are

two or three clauses that have been amended, but the major thrust of the

member's motion was that it be resolved that the House of Assembly urge the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to establish a new plan for an

accelerated reduction leading to the ultimate elimination of VLTs.

Mr. Speaker, as a government, as a party, we recognize the significance of

gambling addictions in the Province, the harm that it brings to individuals, the

crisis that it creates in families, the impact on a person's mental state, the

effect that it has on a person's marriage and relationships, the impact that

some of these gambling addictions would have on young families and we have seen

first-hand - and I think the member opposite points out in one of the comments,

one of the

WHEREAS provisions in this motion, that most of us in this House can

probably identify and would know first-hand some individuals who have been

affected by gambling addictions.

So no one in this House needs to be reminded, I do not think, of the

significance of gambling addictions. That is why, Mr. Speaker, that is the very

reason why my colleague has put forward an amendment that really calls for a

broadened scope of action. When the Leader of the NDP, the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi starts talking about the amended motion is not one of action,

she talks about it as just being patting ourselves on the back and not a motion

of action. That I believe too is not an accurate portrayal of the amendment put

forward because let me read it.

What we are saying here, Mr. Speaker, is that the House of Assembly would

urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to establish a new plan - a new

plan for gambling addictions. What we are talking about is not just focusing on

one type of gambling addiction, what this amendment talks about is developing a

new plan for gambling addictions. We all recognize that VLTs in as much - it is

significant. The Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi has pointed that out, VLTs

are addictive. There are many people in Newfoundland and Labrador who are

addicted to VLTs.

We recognize, Mr. Speaker, that VLTs are but one form of gambling; therefore,

if this House of Assembly is to call on our government to take any type of

action, I think it needs to be comprehensive. It needs to be fairly broad, Mr.

Speaker, and that is why clearly the amendment is, in fact, an action item. It

is an action. It is calling on government. It is an action orientated item, or

amendment rather, that calls on government to actually develop a comprehensive

plan. Look at gambling addictions in its broadest form not just narrowly focused

on VLTs.

That plan, Mr. Speaker, no one would want to prejudge what might be in that

plan. No doubt, the plan will talk about issues of VLT gambling. It will talk

about issues around on-line gambling and how we are going to deal with

individuals who are addicted to multiple forms of gambling. We have heard

comment in this House already today about the emergence of Internet technology

and the impact that has had on gambling and the number of people who are

addicted to Internet gambling. That is a whole new area, Mr. Speaker.

For most of us in this Assembly, we have been in locations where we see the

VLTs in the corner or laying against a wall in a bar and most of us have seen

those. Many of us do not see what takes place in front of a computer screen in

the privacy of an individual's home. We are immune to that, Mr. Speaker. We do

not get to see that. We do not fully appreciate it. Because we do not get to see

it, we do not necessarily always understand it. I think we will all recognize in

this House that it is an issue that we need to come to grips with.

When the member opposite put forward her motion, she talked about a very

narrowly focused action oriented motion that was being put forward, which is to

look at VLTs by themselves. I say, Mr. Speaker, clearly this is an action

oriented motion. The amendment clearly calls on government. This House of

Assembly, through this motion, will call on government to, in fact, take an

action, to develop a comprehensive plan, to develop a new plan looking at

gambling addictions in its broadest form. In so doing, we will address the

thrust of the member's motion that was much narrower than what we are proposing

here, Mr. Speaker. We will, in fact, do as she is proposing which is to look at

the whole issue of VLTs.

Mr. Speaker, the other piece of the resolution and the amendment that is

being brought forward that is the subject of some criticism from both members

opposite when it starts talking about substituting the words "increase funding"

to "continue enhancing programming". What are we actually saying, Mr. Speaker?

One of the things that the member opposite frequently does in this House

stands to talk about an issue - and the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi is

famous for this. Standing in the House criticizing government for something that

it is not doing and the solution is to throw more money at it, Mr. Speaker.

Throwing money at an issue is not always the solution. If we stop for a

moment and more logically look at the thrust of the member's motion. If she is

asking for improvements in what we do to support people with addictions, then

the real request to government should be to enhance programming.

We are not interested in throwing money at an issue, Mr. Speaker, just for

the sake of saying that we have now increased our budget by some percentage

point over and above last year, so therefore we must be getting greater results

or will have an improved outcome. That is not the case at all, Mr. Speaker.

The member opposite would fully know because I have heard her stand in this

House before in response to the commitment we have made to expenditures in our

health system, when we have said that we have the highest expenditures per

capita than any other Province in the entire country, when we have stood in this

House and the my colleague, the Minister of Health and Community Services very

recently, in the Budget debate in this House in recent weeks made that comment

about how we as a Province spend now more per capita than anyone else in the

entire country on health care.

The member opposite has stood up and said: Just spending the money is not

what is important. She said: You want to make sure you get value for that money;

you are getting good value for the investment that you are making. Now, that is

exactly what we are doing, Mr. Speaker. What we are saying now is the amendment

to this motion should more accurately and more appropriately ask this House, and

this House should then in turn ask government to enhance and to continue to

enhance programming. It is the programming and the quality of those programs and

the focus and the target of those programs that will end up giving us the

desired outcome. Just throwing money at is, Mr. Speaker, is not the total

solution.

Sometimes, when we develop a new plan, there may be some new initiatives that

come from that new plan that will require some new investments. If so, they will

be dealt with in a normal budgetary process. Just quickly to say in a motion, to

be able to have a cheap political debate in the House of Assembly, that you

should throw more money at something, and therefore, increase the funding level

and the natural fallout of that is you will get a better result. I think, Mr.

Speaker, we will all acknowledge in this House, more particularly, in this

session of the House, when we spent many hours talking about this year's Budget,

and where we have talked about the kinds of investments our government is making

in a variety of program areas, and a part of the examination that we have done

through the committee process is to examine how we spend that money, how much

value we are getting for that. The observation has been made by the Opposition

many times during the debate in committee stage that some of the money, in their

view, is not being well spent.

So I say, Mr. Speaker, they have already acknowledged that just increasing

the expenditure levels, throwing more money at an issue, in and of itself, will

not necessarily address the issue at hand. The issue at hand here, Mr. Speaker,

is gambling addictions. So when we put forward, and when my colleague, the

Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, stands in this House today

and puts forward a couple of amendments, one calling on a continued enhancement

of programs rather than just throw more money at it, that is a prudent

amendment, Mr. Speaker. That reflects a prudent approach to investment. That

reflects an understanding of the complexity of the issue at hand, and simply

throwing money at it will not actually do. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, when you look

at what we are trying to do with looking at gambling addictions in its broadest

context. Again, Mr. Speaker, a prudent approach.

Now, all of us in this House, and those listening throughout Newfoundland and

Labrador, would recognize, based on comments made by both parties opposite, Mr.

Speaker, that neither party opposite believes in strategic plans. They do not

believe in developing strategies. They do not believe in having a planned

approach to delivering programs. They do not believe it is necessary to have a

focus. They do not believe it is necessary to have a mechanism to measure your

progress, which is what a plan gives you, Mr. Speaker. Here is the objective;

here is where you want to go. Here is how we are going to measure success and

here is where we will know whether or not we have been successful in responding

to the objectives of the program introduced. That is what a new plan will do,

Mr. Speaker. It will give us a structured approach to deal with the broad issue

of gambling addictions. Regardless of the nature of the gambling that is taking

place, whether it is on-line gambling on the Internet, whether it is VLTs,

whether it is a poker game in the living rooms of Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians, any form of gambling that people become addicted to.

Our prevalence studies that we had done in 2005 and 2009 have indicated that

we are making some improvements on that note, by the way, Mr. Speaker. Even

though the benchmark survey that was done in 2005 showed a particular result,

gave us a particular picture, a snapshot in time which established a base line

for us to evaluate our progress. We repeated that in 2009 and we have seen some

changes. That is why the 2005 benchmark survey was so important. It gave us a

measurement to start from. We recognize that there have been some significant

improvements. There have been some changes.

I say, Mr. Speaker, it is not a coincidence that those changes in the

statistics and some of those improvements - there is still some room for change.

When we see some of the startling results about young people in their early

teens starting to gamble, that gives us all reason for concern, Mr. Speaker, but

on some of the other statistics, in some of the other survey results of the 2009

survey, will clearly indicate that some of the strategic investments we made in

mental health and addictions in the last five years are actually working, Mr.

Speaker.

There is a long list of investments that our government has made in the last

seven years in mental health and addictions. The current Minister of Health and

Community Services said in this House today, and in many times in recent months

and weeks, that his number one priority, his big focus is on mental health and

addictions. Again, this year's Budget reflects our government's renewed

commitment to mental health and addictions by the strategic investments we are

making in this year's Budget.

I say, Mr. Speaker, the amendments proposed by my colleague are appropriate,

given what we are trying to do as a government, but they also address the issue

raised by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi when she put forward her motion.

Now, I am certain she is going to stand in this House a little later today and

express her dissatisfaction at the fact that we have put forward an amendment to

the motion, but I say, Mr. Speaker, in all sincerity, that we believe the

amendments we have made to this motion have in fact strengthened the thrust of

her original motion. In fact, it strengthens it, Mr. Speaker, and it strengthens

it for a couple of reasons. We are now taking her narrowly focused original

motion and broadened it to look at a more comprehensive view of gambling

addictions. So I say, Mr. Speaker, we have in fact strengthened just that.

I want to raise a couple of points that the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair has raised. She talks about the significance of gambling. She has pointed

out that within Eastern Health alone, just one of the regional health

authorities in Newfoundland and Labrador, she has pointed out that there are

eight addictions counsellors working in addictions and looking at gambling

addictions only in Eastern Health.

MR. SPEAKER (Kelly): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that his time for speaking has expired.

MR. WISEMAN: By leave, Mr. Speaker, just to clue up?

MR. SPEAKER: By leave to clue up?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. WISEMAN: I say, Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has already raised

the notion that there are eight counsellors within the Eastern Regional Health

Authority dealing with gambling addictions. So I say, Mr. Speaker, if you have

eight addictions counsellors in Eastern Health and I do not know that to be a

fact personally, but the member opposite has quoted it here in the House today,

so I am assuming the information is accurate. So if she is suggesting that there

are eight people dealing with gambling addictions within Eastern Health, then

that points to a very significant issue, Mr. Speaker. She did not say that there

are eight dealing with VLT addictions; she indicated that there are eight

dealing with gambling addictions. So that is a significant number, and that is

her words, Mr. Speaker. She indicated that is, in fact, a significant number of

addictions counsellors to have deployed in looking at gambling addictions only,

and I would agree. I would agree fully, Mr. Speaker, that that would in fact be

the case.

It just speaks to though - it reinforces the point that I am making. The fact

that we have amended this motion to strengthen it, to call on government to in

fact look at a new plan for gambling addictions and broaden it beyond a look at

VLT issues and the reduction of the number of VLTs in the system, which is a

very narrowly focused motion, I say, Mr. Speaker.

I made reference a moment ago to the significant investments that our

government has made in mental health and addictions in recent years, Mr.

Speaker. I think if you look at the history of our health system in the last

ten, fifteen or twenty years and you take any four or five-year period and look

at the investments that have been made in mental health and addictions, not ever

before have we seen in our Province where we have seen such a significant

investment in mental health and addiction services, Mr. Speaker. So, I clearly -

just in closing, Mr. Speaker

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member was just given leave to clue up. Clue up please.

MR. WISEMAN: Just in closing, Mr. Speaker.

I think the fact that we have strengthened this motion in the House today to

broaden our look at gambling addictions, and as evidenced by the significant

investments - every single Budget that we have delivered since 2004 have seen

new investments in mental health and addiction services in this Province. I

think it all points to how serious an issue we believe this is and why it is

important for us to do it right. That is why this amendment today broadens the

look at gambling addictions. We are committed, Mr. Speaker. I think if this

House were to pass this motion as amended today, it would provide a clear signal

that the current Minister of Health and Community Services is on the right track

as he looks at new investments and a renewed focus, and a high priority given to

mental health and addiction services in the Province.

I thank you, and I thank the House for giving me some leave to expand on some

of my comments and as I have made some opening commentary about this motion

before the House today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the hon. the Minister of Health and

Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I take this opportunity today to speak on this motion. I want to speak on,

Mr. Speaker, from a more global perspective in terms of gambling being an

addiction and one that we have to look at from an addictions strategy

perspective. It allows me to look at what we are doing as a government in terms

of treating addictions and thereby obviously treating mental health concerns.

Mr. Speaker, I indicated, and I have indicated on numerous occasions, that

mental health and addictions is a major priority for myself as the Minister of

Health, and for this government. In fact, Mr. Speaker, this government has

invested approximately $17.9 million in mental health and addiction services

over the last number of years.

Mr. Speaker, what we have to look at is when you look at the

preamble put

forward by the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, she talks about the cost to

our society. She talks about, to do with VLT addiction, the effect upon health

care costs, lost productivity, the need to support broken individuals and

families. I do not think, Mr. Speaker, you can simply look at that in terms of

VLTs. What you have to look at, Mr. Speaker, is the societal cost of addiction,

the effect upon our families and our young people who were subjected to parents

who are drinking, using drugs or gambling, friends who have problems in relation

to addictions, or it can be our sons and daughters.

So, what we have to look at, as a government, is how do we treat addiction,

not only simply how do we treat VLT addiction. Gambling comes in many forms. We

do not have casinos here in this Province, but there are casinos throughout the

rest of the country. We have those pull tabs you get in the corner stores, and I

am sure we have all been behind someone at the counter who is spending money on

those. We have bingo; bingo is a form of gambling when you really come down to

it, Mr. Speaker, that is what it is. We have people who play cards, play poker,

Texas Holdem but not everyone gets addicted. Now I am not saying that to justify

the VLT issue, but I think we have to look at it from the perspective of what do

we as a government do.

Mr. Speaker, the analogy I will use, and it is perhaps a direct one, is that

of alcohol. For the last, I do not know how many years, alcohol is an accepted

part of what our society does and people go out to bars, they drink wine. There

is a certain segment of our population, Mr. Speaker, that develops problems with

alcohol, but we do not say to the majority of our population you cannot drink

alcohol because there is percentage of people who will develop problems. Again,

in treating alcoholism, we have to look at the other addictions because

oftentimes people suffer from more than one addiction. So, are we going to break

down our treatment of drugs and say well we are only going to treat OxyContin or

cocaine or marijuana? We have to look at it, as we provide services, as to how

do we treat addictions or addiction. Gambling is one aspect of that.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we have various self-help groups that are twelve step

groups that deal with these issues and who are, to the best of my knowledge, the

most successful in terms of treating addiction. We have from Alcoholics

Anonymous to Narcotics Anonymous to Gamblers Anonymous. So there are people out

there, Mr. Speaker, who provide help, who provide peer support. What I am

finding in my tenure as minister is that that is one of the best ways to get at

helping people help themselves is through funding or giving support to these

community groups.

Mr. Speaker, on March 3 we provided, as a government, funding in the amount

of $362,000 in one-time projects for mental health and addictions. I just want

to highlight some of the addictions ones, Mr. Speaker. We had the Stella Burry

Community Services who are going to provide increased support; $50,000 to

provide increased support to women with addictions released from prison. Now we

do not say to Stella Burry, you only deal with women released from prison who

have gambling problems or alcohol problems or certain drug problems. We are

giving you money to help with addictions problems, Mr. Speaker. That is one that

I think is the only way, the only sensible way to deal with.

We have provided $50,000 to Turnings ran by an individual by the name of Ron

Fitzpatrick who does great work out there in the community, as does Stella Burry

and other groups, obviously, to increase capacity for their clients. Their

clients, Mr. Speaker, are oftentimes people who are not dealt with in the

mainstream. In other words, they are not showing up in the addictions

counsellors' offices or necessarily in the family doctors', because a lot of

them are unfortunately coming out of jail.

One of the things I saw, Mr. Speaker, in my life as a criminal lawyer, was

the connection between addictions and crime. So what Mr. Fitzpatrick and his

group are trying to do are offer the community supports for the individuals who

are coming out of jail and who do not have those family supports, who do not

have the support of friends, who cannot find jobs, who, as a result of criminal

records or lack of education, are going to go back to that life of crime. So Mr.

Fitzpatrick and his group take a very basic perspective. If we help them deal

with their addiction, whatever that addiction may be, and every day that they

are not involved in criminal activity, that is a good day, that program is being

successful.

So we have Stella Burry dealing with women with addictions. We have Turnings

dealing with different types of addictions. We have then, Mr. Speaker, we

provided $25,000 to the Peter's Foundation to provide safe, affordable housing

to women in recovery. Again, I do not know what the criteria are for the

admission, but if you are in I think the word recovery is used in terms of

people who are recovering from addiction. I am sure that they do not say, well

what kind of addiction, unless you have a certain addiction you can get in here.

So what we are trying to do, Mr. Speaker, is reach out. We have the

Recovering Addicts Fellowship Team that we gave $25,000 to, to assist with the

expense of their ongoing activities. Recovering addicts, I do not think, Mr.

Speaker, they restrict themselves, again, to a particular group or a particular

drug or a particular type of addiction.

So what we have - and I know that when we are looking at our investment in a

new addictions centre, we hired a consultant group and went out and looked at

what was going on in other centres, such as the Homewood - it was a recovery

centre in Guelph, Ontario. It was one I visited with some of my officials before

Christmas. The message that they had there is that there are a lot of people

with what they refer to as concurrent disorders. People who suffer from one

addiction oftentimes suffer from others and oftentimes have mental health

issues. So again, when you think about it, that certainly makes sense. If you

have the person who is gambling or drinking or using drugs and it is affecting

their children and affecting their families, I do not think it would surprise

anyone that there is going to perhaps be a depression or other types of mental

illness involved.

Mr. Speaker, we have provided money to the Recovering Addicts Fellowship

Team. We then, as we went in looking at how are we going to deal with

addictions, we have the Humberwood facility on the West Coast of the Province.

The Humberwood facility