2004 Legislative Session: 5th Session, 37th Parliament

HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes

only.

The printed version remains the official version.

Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 2004

Afternoon Sitting

Volume 22, Number 2

CONTENTS

Routine Proceedings

Page

Introductions by Members

Statements (Standing Order 25 B )

Hydrogen fuel

J. Bray

School bullying and death of Hamed

Nastoh

Mayencourt

Drug labs and marijuana grow

operations

R. Stewart

Oral Questions

B.C. Rail port subdivision line

privatization process

J. Kwan

Hon. K.

Falcon

Police investigation of government

officials

J. Kwan

Hon. R.

Coleman

B.C. Rail privatization process

J. MacPhail

Hon. K.

Falcon

Inland ferry services

Suffredine

Hon. K.

Falcon

Labour dispute at Gibraltar mine

W. Cobb

Hon. G.

Bruce

Point of Privilege

G. Hogg

Second Reading of Bills

Sustainable Resource Management

Statutes Amendment Act, 2004 (Bill 15)

Hon. G.

Abbott

B. Penner

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

Services (continued)

P. Sahota

Hon. S.

Brice

J. Bray

J. MacPhail

Mayencourt

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Community,

Aboriginal and Women's Services (continued)

J. Kwan

Hon. M.

Coell

[ Page 9427 ]

THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 2004

The House

met at 2:04 p.m.

[J. Weisbeck

in the chair.]

Introductions by Members

Deputy

Speaker: Today I have the pleasure to make the first introduction. Joining

us in the gallery today is a small contingent of a family of one of our caucus

staff members, people that I have known for a number of years. It is my pleasure

to introduce Pat Stiles, who is in Victoria this week to celebrate his

seventieth birthday in style with his children. Pat is a longtime resident of

Kelowna, a retired pharmacist and a former owner of one of B.C.'s most highly

respected pharmacies and — I have this on good authority — one of the best

fathers out there.

With Pat in

the gallery is his daughter, Leah Cuthbert, and her husband, Bob, from Prince

Rupert, who are here celebrating their twentieth wedding anniversary. Would the

House please make them welcome.

[1405]

Hon. J.

Les: It's my pleasure this afternoon to introduce to the House Joanne Field

and her daughter Leslie. They are from Abbotsford. Joanne is the chair of the

Abbotsford school district, one of the very best-run school districts in the

province. Would the House please make them welcome.

Cheema: I would like to introduce one of my former colleagues from Manitoba,

Mr. Darren Praznik. He is at present the executive director of government

relations with Canadian Blood Services. Mr. Praznik served Manitoba for 14 years

from 1988 to 2002, including nine years in cabinet. He was responsible for a

variety of departments, including health, labour, transportation and aboriginal

affairs. From 1986 to 1988 he was a special assistant to the federal Minister of

National Health and Welfare. Would the House please join me in welcoming Mr.

Praznik.

H. Bloy:

It's an honour for me to introduce 16 young people in the audience today. I

met them about four weeks ago in the excitement of what they're doing. They're

with a program that's sponsored by SUCCESS and the Canadian government. It's all

about skills development.

After

meeting them three or four weeks ago and today, I'm really impressed with what

they're doing. I'd like to welcome them to the House along with their leaders.

There's Evelyn Humphreys and Roxanne Charbonneau. The students are Jodi

Anderson, Jeremy Beaulne, Ryan Blore, Sarah Mitchell, Erenley Poh, Harlan Roque

and Stephanie Volos. My colleague from Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain will

introduce the remainder of the young people.

Locke: It is my privilege to introduce in the House today Karim and Nasima

Nastoh. They are parents of a young lad named Hamed, who committed suicide…. I

think it's five years ago today. The Nastohs have dedicated their time to

fighting bullying in school, and I think their strength is good for all of us.

It's certainly shining a light on this topic. I wish the House would please make

them welcome.

Manhas: I'd like to join my colleague from Burquitlam in welcoming the

Chance to Choose program class here today. I'm really pleased that Evelyn and

Roxanne are here today and brought the group up.

Many of you

have heard me stand up here and speak in the House about Youth Matters! and

youth asset development. Evelyn is one of those rare and incredible people who

took the seed of Youth Matters! and built something that she saw was needed in

the community. She took that seed to build A Chance to Choose.

There are,

as my colleague mentioned, 16 young men and women here in Victoria to take a

look at what parliament is and how the provincial government works and to meet

with many of us. Today I'd like to introduce Jodi Anderson, Jeremy Beaulne, Ryan

Blore, Wade Bathurst, Matthew Bates, Julian Braga, Ryan Day, Ben Favelle, Ben

Fjeld, Astara Johnston, Susannah Kloegman and Jessica Rheddy, along with the

folks my colleague mentioned.

I'm really

pleased that you guys are here. It is an incredible opportunity that you have

here in this initiative to really find what your passion is, and I encourage you

to be able to continue doing that.

I'd also

like to introduce Wendy Cooper. Wendy Cooper is actually the chair of the Youth

Matters! partnership team. She also happens to be here in the Legislature.

I'd like

the whole House to please make all of these very significant, important

individuals welcome in Victoria and send them back with a warm feeling about

what Victoria really is.

[1410]

J. Kwan:

I have two very special guests visiting us today in the gallery. They are

Sam Monckton and Brenda Tombs. Sam is a constituency staff in my office in

Vancouver. She is definitely committed and hard-working, but also very talented.

As we know, we're now 40 percent in the polls. That is to say that our staff has

helped us with the resourcefulness they have in gaining the research material as

well as the information in asking questions in this House and, of course, also

in estimates and bill debate.

Also

joining us is Brenda Tombs. She is a co-op student from the University of

British Columbia. The students in this chamber have elevated the opposition in

our ability to do our work in an incredible way. In addition to the interns, we

have Brenda in Vancouver helping us out. She is definitely resourceful and smart

and funny. Would the House please welcome these two special individuals.

[ Page 9428 ]

MacPhail: I rise today on a very important occasion, March 11. There are

about six decades of good news that occurred on this day. One is the birth last

year and therefore the first birthday of Cee-Yan, the daughter of the member for

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant. One of the reasons I remember that is because it's

also the birthday of the Minister of Human Resources, the member for Comox

Valley. They're separated by a few decades, I believe. However, given that,

they're still adorable water babies — both. Could the House please wish them

happy birthday.

Statements

(Standing Order 25

b) HYDROGEN FUEL

J. Bray:

Imagine, in the year of the Olympics 2010, Arnold Schwarzenegger driving to

Vancouver in his hydrogen-fuelled Humvee and Jack Layton driving east in his

hydrogen-fuelled Yugo. The concept of a hydrogen highway is an exciting vision

of the future. The notion of a hydrogen highway was launched about 18 months ago

by the National Research Council, Methanex and B.C. Hydro. The vision is all

about having hydrogen fuelling stations that will allow hydrogen-fuelled

vehicles to operate from Victoria to Whistler. The goal is to get the highway in

operation in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Meanwhile,

the U.S. Department of Energy has opened some stations in California and is

looking at extending the network into Oregon and Washington State. We could work

with the Americans to eventually have this highway right along the west coast, a

highway with cars operating whose only emissions are water droplets.

What makes

this vision even more exciting is that British Columbia is at the leading edge

of this new green technology. The fuel cell technology centre is located at

NRC's Institute for Fuel Cell Innovation in Vancouver. The fuel cell technology

centre was created as a research and development platform for the NRC fuel cell

program. A total of 3,500 square feet of hydrogen-safe laboratory space equipped

with fuel cell test equipment and commercial fuel cells are now available for

industry co-locaters, universities, collaborators and NRC researchers. Also,

leading-edge companies like Ballard Power Systems are taking the concept of

hydrogen fuel cells from the laboratory to demonstrating commercial viability.

The

Olympics challenge us all to shoot for the gold, to be our best. What better

legacy for the next generation than to have a viable demonstration for the world

to see, a hydrogen highway from Victoria to Whistler showing that zero-emission

vehicles can be a reality. In fact, the vision for the 2010 Olympics is to

create sustainable legacies for our athletes, sport development, our host

communities, our province, our country…. I urge the federal government, the

provincial government and industry to pursue this vision with a hydrogen

highway.

SCHOOL BULLYING AND

DEATH OF HAMED NASTOH

Mayencourt: Four years ago a young student in Surrey was enduring bullying,

harassment, taunting, homophobia and emotional cruelty from some friends in his

school. It was so crushing to his spirit that he could not see any way out for

himself and the torture he was enduring. It was on this day, March 11, 2000,

that this student succumbed to the school yard bullying and made a fateful

decision to end his own life.

His name

was Hamed Nastoh, and he was 14. Hamed left a note behind for his family,

detailing the taunting and the name-calling that he'd endured. He asked that his

death be not in vain. He wanted a better and more peaceful world for students,

for other students, for children. Although it was a world that he could

envision, it was not a world that he lived in. He wanted a world where kids can

grow up without the threat of violence in their schools.

[1415]

I didn't

ever have the opportunity to meet Hamed, but I remember the day I heard that

he'd taken his life. I have had the honour of meeting his family and of reading

his note that he left for them.

Nasima

Nastoh, his mother, and her husband, Karim Nastoh, are here in the gallery

today. We've already welcomed them. They have dedicated the last four years of

their lives to making a difference in schools across British Columbia — to

deal with the issues of bullying, harassment and intimidation and to deal with

racism, with homophobia, with sexism and with all of the isms that make students

feel different and separate and apart and make them feel despair to the degree

that they don't want to be there anymore.

Nasima has

taken up the charge that was sent to her by her son. I admire her, and I thank

her for her continued commitment to kids all across British Columbia. Today at

lunch she said to me that it really isn't about Hamed. It's about all of the

kids in British Columbia. As chair of the safe schools task force and on behalf

of the other members of that task force and all members of this gallery, I thank

you, Nasima, for the important work you do. We are with you, and we will

continue to help you in any way we can.

DRUG LABS AND MARIJUANA

GROW OPERATIONS

Stewart: Family neighbourhoods are home to street hockey and tricycles and

hide-and-seek, but these days our neighbourhoods have become home to other

things. In November, I spoke about marijuana grow ops. Next week we are holding

an important neighbourhood discussion in Coquitlam on what can be done to stamp

out the grow ops and drug labs that are compromising public safety in our

communities.

In the past

two years the Coquitlam RCMP have shut down more than 420 marijuana grow ops and

are currently investigating hundreds more. This certainly is a more insidious

form of hide-and-seek. These illegal

[ Page 9429 ]

operations in our communities are putting our children and our families at

risk. Criminals don't care if they set up shop near an elementary school or a

day care or a playground, and they don't care about the damage they do to

neighbourhoods and communities.

While I've

been raising this issue for many years, it was really brought home for me a

short time ago when police shut down two grow ops a few houses away from our

home, down the road, on my daughter's paper route. We need to work together as a

community to protect our neighbourhoods. We need to ensure that police have the

tools they need to combat this issue. We need to toughen the penalties; we need

to get communities involved.

On Tuesday,

March 16, I'd like to hear what the public has to say. I'm inviting all

concerned citizens to come to Coquitlam city hall at 7 p.m. next Tuesday for our

forum. We will be joined by the Solicitor General, the Deputy Premier and

Coquitlam mayor Jon Kingsbury. We've also invited representatives from the

Coquitlam RCMP, B.C. Hydro and the B.C. Real Estate Association. I want people

to come out and share their thoughts. It's time to loosen the grip that drug

dealers have on our lives and to protect our neighbourhoods for a better type of

hide-and-seek — the type our children play.

Oral Questions

B.C. RAIL PORT SUBDIVISION LINE

PRIVATIZATION PROCESS

J. Kwan:

On March 1 the police visited the deputy minister responsible for the sale of

B.C. Rail and told him that the Roberts Bank deal was tainted. The Minister of

Transportation was informed of this the next day, March 2. On March 3 the media

asked the minister if he had any reason to believe that the Roberts Bank spur

was compromised. Despite the fact that he was told by the deputy that day, on

March 2, the minister said no. My question to the minister is: why did he hide

the truth?

Hon. K.

Falcon: Well, not surprisingly, the member opposite has got the facts wrong

again. So I'll walk the member through that to make sure she actually

understands what the real facts are.

Interjections.

[1420]

Hon. K.

Falcon: On March 2 — if the members would pay attention — I was visited

by Deputy Minister Chris Trumpy. Chris Trumpy, in an unscheduled meeting, a very

short meeting, advised me that he had received information from the RCMP which

led him to believe that there may — and I underscore "may" — be a

problem associated with the port subdivision. The next day I was in a scrum, as

the member points out. In the scrum I was asked about whether I would be

cancelling that particular port subdivision deal. What my comment was is that

when I had information available, credible information that would allow me to

make a decision based on facts, I would make a decision in the best interests of

the public. That's exactly what I did.

J. Kwan:

The minister hid the truth, and he knows it. When he was asked if he had any

concerns about the Roberts Bank deal, the minister could have said that he

wasn't comfortable discussing a competitive bid process that was underway. But

he didn't. He chose to tell the public he had no concerns. Nowhere in the letter

from the evaluation committee to the minister does the committee vouch for the

integrity of the process to sell B.C. Rail. — nowhere. Given yesterday's

announcement, how can the Minister of Transportation expect the people of

British Columbia to have any confidence whatsoever that the sale of B.C. Rail is

not hopelessly compromised by influence-peddling and leaks of confidential

information?

Interjection.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. K.

Falcon: The member opposite is fully aware of the fact that the port

subdivision process is a very separate initiative. The port subdivision process

refers to a 37-kilometre spur line. It's not attached to the B.C. Rail main

line. The port subdivision process had a process underway. One of the members of

the evaluation team, Mr. Chris Trumpy — I might add, a deputy minister of the

highest integrity — was approached by….

Interjection.

Hon. K.

Falcon: If the member is going to continue interrupting, I can't get my

answers out appropriately. Perhaps if the member would try to stop interrupting

for a moment….

Interjection.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, please. Order. Let's hear the rest of the answer.

Hon. K.

Falcon: As I indicated, Mr. Trumpy visited me in my office on the afternoon

of March 2. Mr. Trumpy indicated in a very brief conversation that he had a

visit from the RCMP. They provided him with certain information that led him to

conclude that there may — I underscore "may" — be information that

could jeopardize the integrity of the port subdivision process. I subsequently

met with Mr. Trumpy on March 4.

If the

member would read the statement I released to the public, she will know that I

advised him to go back to the RCMP to gather as much information as he credibly

can without jeopardizing the integrity of the investigation, to consult with the

evaluation committee to get their recommendation and to ensure that he puts

[ Page 9430 ]

the public interest and integrity at the very top of the decision pyramid.

Deputy

Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant with a further

supplemental question.

POLICE INVESTIGATION OF

GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS

J. Kwan:

You know, the minister's story changes minute by minute. This is probably his

seventh version of the story now, and I'm sure Martyn Brown is scripting him

very carefully. I must say, Martyn Brown, you better try harder.

From the

beginning, the B.C. Liberals have tried to downplay the scandal. The Minister of

Transportation maintains that nothing is wrong until he's forced by the police

to admit that something is terribly wrong. The Premier, in the middle of all of

this, makes the bizarre statement that it's all a private matter involving

staff. Incredibly, the Solicitor General, the minister who knows more than

anyone else, told the public he's confident that the integrity of the government

was not compromised.

To the

Solicitor General: is he prepared to retract those comments and finally admit

that the police raids on the Legislature are directly linked to the government's

integrity?

Hon. R.

Coleman: I have nothing further to add. I won't comment on an ongoing police

investigation.

B.C. RAIL PRIVATIZATION PROCESS

MacPhail: Oh, the Solicitor General has been muzzled now. Before, he was

fine to say that there was nothing wrong with the B.C. Rail deal. He's been

muzzled. He's been given a new version. Well, the continued stonewalling makes

one wonder if the government realizes how serious the scandal is. The Attorney

General mocks this whole terrible scandal.

estimates debate last week the Minister of Finance admitted that he met with Pat

Broe, the CEO of Broe Companies — of which Omnitrax is a subsidiary — on two

separate occasions, once before the bidding on B.C. Rail even started and once

after the sale to CN was announced and while the Roberts Bank spur bid was still

open — twice.

[1425]

Can the

Minister of Transportation tell us if he was aware of this meeting and if he

thinks it's appropriate for the Minister of Finance to be having a private

dinner with the CEO of Omnitrax's parent company during the bidding process on a

multimillion-dollar bid to buy the Roberts Bank spur rail line?

Hon. K.

Falcon: What I can tell the member opposite is that I wasn't present at the

estimates, so I have no idea what she's talking about. But I will tell the

member opposite something that should be important to her.

Interjections.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, members.

Hon. K.

Falcon: Perhaps if the member opposite would listen…. I'm going to quote

directly from the statement I released yesterday, and I'm going to quote from a

paragraph. I want to remind the member that before we issued this statement, we

confirmed with the RCMP that the information released does not jeopardize their

criminal investigation which — I remind the member — is ongoing. So I'll

quote to the member. Since she never listens to facts, I'll try and give her a

fact.

Interjections.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, please. Order. Order, please. Let's hear the answer.

Hon. K.

Falcon: This is part of the challenge of why it's hard to get facts opposite

there, because they never close their mouths and listen with their ears. But I

will say this, and I'll quote directly: "We have no information to suggest

that the successful proponent, CN, has come into possession of any information

that would undermine the outcome of the B.C. Rail–CN partnership."

I want to

say this: the reason why they continue to be so negative about that is because

they're afraid to defend the expansion of the Prince George Airport. They're

afraid to defend the $17.2 million we're investing in Prince Rupert

containerization. They're afraid to defend the additional $8 million of taxes up

and down the communities of the line, and they're just constantly trying to be

negative.

MacPhail: The Minister of Finance has a private dinner not once but twice

with the CEO of Omnitrax's parent company. When? While this failed bid was going

on — an investigation of criminal activity, influence-peddling, sharing of

information, and the Minister of Finance is meeting with one of the bidders.

Shame. And that minister claims not to know about it. He's really in charge.

As more

information comes out, the picture of this scandal comes into sharper focus —

contracts worth millions up for grabs, B.C. Liberal insiders on the payroll of

bidders, private dinners between a cabinet minister and a CEO of a company

actively engaged in the privatization of B.C. Rail, police raids that the

Attorney General mocks, criminal investigations. Every time this government

tries to privatize something, the cops have to get involved.

Deputy

Speaker: Member, is there a question in this?

MacPhail: Yes, there is.

Deputy

Speaker: Pose your question, please.

[ Page 9431 ]

MacPhail: It's clear that the privatization of B.C. Rail is thoroughly

tainted by allegations of influence-peddling and leaks — at least four leaks

that we now know about. Will the Minister of Transportation put an order

immediately to halt the sale of B.C. Rail? He has no evidence that the two bids

are not both tainted. Halt the sale now.

Hon. K.

Falcon: It is just unbelievable to sit here and listen to a litany of

non-facts, of misinformation.

Interjection.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. K.

Falcon: This member just never gives up. But I will say this. There appears

to be a bit of a fixation here on the question of integrity, so I want to make a

comparison here for the House on how a government deals with a situation. The

moment we had an evaluation team.…

Interjection.

Deputy

Speaker: Order, please. Order. Would the Leader of the Opposition please

come to order.

[1430]

Hon. K.

Falcon: I wonder why she's getting excited.

When the

evaluation team came to this government and brought forward credible information

that the process could affect the valuation or the values that the provincial

government could receive, we immediately acted to terminate the process.

I will

contrast that with the previous government. Do you remember when the NDP

government had B.C. Ferries? They had a board of directors that advised them

they had a problem. They had a problem in that fast ferries were having cost

overruns. There was no business plan. Do you know what they did? They fired the

board, and they put a new board of political hacks into place to make sure they

could continue to undermine the public interest, and that ended up costing us

half a billion dollars. That's the difference between integrity and no

integrity.

INLAND FERRY SERVICES

Suffredine: In the Kootenays for some time now we have been going through a

process where the Ministry of Transportation has been putting out the inland

ferries for contract operation. People have asked me repeatedly how that can

make sense, how that can make financial sense. The BCGEU has been out there

irresponsibly alleging that this will affect jobs and service on these valued

things in the Kootenays.

It's fair

for people to wonder if the cost of seeking bids is a wise expenditure and if

there's a benefit to that process. Can the minister tell my constituents: why is

the government seeking alternate service delivery bids for inland ferries like

the Kootenay Lake ferry, the Harrop-Procter ferry and the Glade ferry?

Hon. K.

Falcon: Actually, I think that's an important question….

Interjections.

Deputy

Speaker: Leader of the Opposition, would you please come to order.

Hon. K.

Falcon: This is actually important, because the inland ferries are an

important transportation link in the heartlands, as the member correctly points

out.

We as a

government made a commitment to secure partners to operate and maintain inland

ferries while protecting our transportation networks without increasing the

public debt. This agreement goes a long way in meeting that commitment. This

agreement provides reliable, toll-free ferry service at fair value to the

taxpayers, but I think what is particularly important for that member to know is

that the 56 employees who are currently working on the ferry routes will be

offered jobs with the new operator. This contractor is required to maintain the

existing service levels on the Kootenay Lake, Harrop and Glade ferry routes.

That is good news for that member's neck of the woods.

LABOUR DISPUTE AT GIBRALTAR MINE

W. Cobb:

My question is to the Minister of Skills Development and Labour. In 1998

Gibraltar Mines closed after 25 years due to low copper prices. Taseko Mines now

owns that mine, and it wants to reopen, creating 270 jobs. There are seven who

have recall rights. There are seven employees who stayed on for maintenance and

safety reasons. They have taken a strike vote that could possibly keep this mine

from reopening. Mr. Speaker, 270 jobs are too important to lose. Should 14

people have the right to keep 256 other people from working?

I would

like to know what the Minister of Skills Development and Labour is doing to

ensure this economic opportunity can be realized.

Hon. G.

Bruce: I think it's always important to remember that when you have a labour

relations issue taking place, a negotiation that's happening, you must deal with

it in a prudent fashion. Obviously, the jobs that would come to that area are

powerful to all of us in British Columbia, particularly to that community and

that operation itself.

I'm quite

prepared to meet with the parties in play, both members of the company and

members of the union, simply from the standpoint of seeing whether or not we can

assist in somehow bringing about a resolution, so everybody can get through this

and we can find the mine again operating. With the 270 more new jobs happening

in British Columbia, along with the 160,000 jobs that have been created in the

last two

[ Page 9432 ]

years, we have seen this province turn the corner and start to rebuild.

Just before

I sit down, I know you all want to know this…. A few years back in the decade

of decline, prior to them taking over — this would have been the NDP

administration — there used to be 15,000 mining jobs in the province of

British Columbia. Just after ten years of their administration, they took those

15,000 jobs and reduced them to 7,500. But with the turn we're making in this

province right now, we're going to see mining grow again in British Columbia.

We're going to see good union mining jobs through all parts of British Columbia,

so people and families can prosper in this province.

[1435]

[End of question period.]

Point of Privilege

G. Hogg:

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to respond to a matter of privilege put

forward by the member for Vancouver-Hastings on the afternoon of Monday,

February 16. She had previously reserved her right to raise three matters of

privilege on the afternoon of February 10. One of those matters concerned

comments made by myself.

The

Government House Leader has already observed that contrary to established

practice, the member did not reserve her right at the earliest opportunity —

which, as you know, is a strict requirement of the standing orders of the House.

The importance of acting at the earliest opportunity is canvassed in MacMinn,

third edition, pages 48 and 49. The failure to raise a matter of privilege at

the earliest opportunity has resulted in members losing their rights to pursue

such matters.

Nevertheless,

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to respond to the allegations

made by the member for Vancouver-Hastings. I take any suggestion that anyone

would intentionally make a misleading statement in this House very seriously.

British parliamentary tradition and conventions dictate that members honour

parliamentary practice established over decades — indeed, over centuries —

in order to carry out the democratic business of the people of this province.

The member

for Vancouver-Hastings alleges that on March 24, 2003, I breached the privilege

enjoyed by members of this House by misleading her as to the role of Mr. Doug

Walls. In support of her allegation, the member for Vancouver-Hastings

acknowledges that I consulted with the then Deputy Minister of Children and

Family Development immediately prior to responding, and she submitted a

videotape from Hansard taken during the relevant period of the debate in the

House.

As you

know, established practice dictates that the threshold necessary to establish a

prima facie case for striking a committee to examine the conduct of a member is

based on two tests: firstly, that the statement complained of was misleading

and, secondly, that it was deliberate.

In response

to the former, I respond as follows. A Hansard transcript of the exchange in the

Legislature on March 24, 2003, indicates the member for Vancouver-Hastings had

been asking me about interim authorities responsible for delivering social

services and their interim CEOs. She eventually asked me specifically about the

community living authority and community living. In response I stated:

"Currently, the senior government representative is Elaine Murray. They

will be going through a selection process sometime in the next number of

months." Elaine Murray, like the Children and Family Development ICEOs I

previously referred to, was a senior civil servant. The transcript is attached

to my written submission.

It is a

matter of record that Elaine Murray, an assistant deputy minister in the

Ministry of Children and Family Development, was in fact the senior government

representative assigned to work with the community living authority at the time

I made the statement in the Legislature. Her role was to liaise with the interim

authority and government in the process of establishing the permanent authority.

As evidence, I have attached a written copy of the submission of a memorandum

from the deputy minister of the Ministry of Children and Family Development

dated January 10, 2003, explaining that Elaine Murray, ADM, had become the

senior government executive responsible for the devolution of service to

community living B.C.

Therefore,

I submit that the statement I gave to the House was in fact accurate and not

misleading, and certainly not deliberately so. Nevertheless, if anything I

stated was misinterpreted or led to confusion, then for that, I apologize to all

members of this House.

It is true

that during the formational period of community living B.C., there was

occasionally a lack of clarity concerning the position of interim CEO. The

member for Vancouver-Hastings referred to a letter dated January 23, 2003, from

the chair of the Interim Authority for Community Living B.C. to the deputy

minister — and not copied to me — which stated that Doug Walls will be the

acting CEO. But then the same letter also said his official title within the

organization will remain senior consultant, planning and development.

For your

consideration, I would like to refer to another letter from the chair of the

Interim Authority for Community Living B.C., this one dated April 9, 2003. It

says: "We do not currently have an ICEO." I have attached a copy of

this letter to my written submission for your consideration, along with a draft

organizational chart dated November 4, 2003, indicating that the position of the

CEO was vacant. I have also attached a copy of a fax from the former chair of

the interim authority dated February 18, 2004, which states that Mr. Walls

continued to be the senior consultant. I have attached excerpts of minutes of

the interim authority that provide a chronology and further information on this

matter.

specifically draw your attention to the minutes dated September 25, 2003, where

the board resolved to

[ Page 9433 ]

advise me of their actions with respect to Mr. Walls. This occurred a full

six months after the member asked the question, which is the subject of the

privilege motion. As the member for Vancouver-Hastings herself noted, I

confirmed with my deputy minister prior to responding to her question.

The

videotape submitted by the member for Vancouver-Hastings reveals an elapsed time

of approximately 15 seconds from when she asked the question to the time I

provided an answer. It was during this time that I consulted with the deputy

minister. I repeated the information he provided me, as I believed it to be true

and I believed it dealt with the member's question.

Mr.

Speaker, I believe the evidence supports the position: firstly, that I act with

the best information available to me and, secondly, that the information given

was correct. I submit for the information of the Speaker the reference material.

[1440]

Deputy

Speaker: Thank you very much. I believe the Speaker will read the two

presentations and come up with a decision on this in the near future.

Orders of the Day

Hon. G.

Plant: I call Committee of Supply in the little House. For the information

of members, they will be debating the estimates of the Ministry of Community,

Aboriginal and Women's Services. In this House I call second reading of Bill 15.

Second Reading of Bills

SUSTAINABLE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT

STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2004

Hon. G.

Abbott: I move that Bill 15 be now read a second time.

The

Ministry of Sustainable Resource Management proposes amendments to the

Assessment Act; the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act; the

Land Act; the Land Title Act; the Local Government Act; the Ministry of Lands,

Parks and Housing Act; the Property Transfer Tax Act; and the University

Endowment Land Act. The ministry also proposes the repeal of the Commissioner on

Resources and Environment Act and the Kootenay Canal Land Acquisition Act.

One of the

new-era commitments undertaken by this government is to become more effective

and efficient in service delivery. These amendments and repeals deliver on that

commitment by eliminating outdated or obsolete requirements and streamlining

public services provided under these various statutes.

Several

amendments to the Assessment Act will now make it easier for property assessors

and staff to provide information to the public by either facsimile or

electronically. This will considerably improve the transfer of information,

saving both time and expense. Another amendment to the Assessment Act eliminates

time-consuming and unnecessary requirements by the assessor. Currently, the

assessor must complete a statutory declaration as prescribed under the

Assessment Authority Act each time an assessment roll or supplementary roll is

completed. This requirement is now repealed and substituted with the much

simpler requirement that once the assessment roll has been completed, the

assessor must certify in writing that the roll was completed according to the

requirements of the Assessment Act. It also eliminates the requirements for the

certifications to be notarized and attached to the roll. This saves considerable

time and makes it easier for the roll to be electronically transmitted.

To further

reduce unnecessary regulations, the repeal of two acts is being proposed. The

first is the Commissioner on Resources and Environment Act. The Commission on

Resources and Environment provided for the appointment of a commissioner by the

Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council for the purpose of providing independent advice

to government respecting land use and environmental issues in B.C. The

commission was charged with developing a provincewide strategy for land use and

environmental management, facilitating regional planning processes, ensuring

participation in such processes by aboriginal people and coordinating government

initiatives with respect to resource management. The commission was required to

report annually to government on its activities.

The

Commission on Resources and Environment submitted its final recommendations to

cabinet some years ago and no longer exists, making the act associated with this

public body no longer necessary. As a consequence, we're repealing the

Commissioner on Resources and Environment Act.

Schedule 2 to the Freedom of

Information and Privacy Act is pursuant to that and will also be amended. This

schedule names the commissioner on resources and environment as the head of the

public body responsible for the management of the records of the commission.

This amendment now repeals a reference to the commissioner on resources and

environment and replaces it with the Minister of Sustainable Resource

Management, who is now responsible for the management of these records.

The repeal

of the Kootenay Canal Land Acquisition Act eliminates another outdated act. This

act was developed for the Kootenay Canal hydroelectric project, authorizing

government to acquire specific lands. These lands have been acquired, and

therefore this act is no longer required.

[1445]

Further

amendments to the Land Act will provide Land and Water B.C. with the authority

to make use of modern methods of Crown land disposition. Previously, Crown land

could only be disposed of through such methods as public auction or public

notice of tender. Amending this act will allow Land and Water B.C. to dispose of

Crown land through more current methods in the real estate industry, such as

listing a sale through a multiple listing service or public requests for

proposals.

[ Page 9434 ]

A number of

changes are being proposed to the Land Title Act. One change is being made to

support our new-era commitment to create a B.C. trust for public lands to

encourage private donations of land for public purposes. In some circumstances,

it may be unduly onerous to require a full ground survey to be completed before

registering title to a property. This amendment allows the registrar of land

titles the discretion to register a parcel where the registrar thinks it is

appropriate, using a survey plan based on adjacent existing ground surveys

rather than requiring a complete new survey of the parcel.

The bulk of

the other land title amendments add

definitions and procedures to support the

electronic filing system project due to be implemented April 1, 2004. This

system was initiated by this government to speed the transfer of land title

information to and from the public. The project allows the land title document

to be submitted electronically. In the case of land titles, it's extremely

important to maintain the integrity and legal authority of the land title

documents. Care has been taken to ensure that the timing of document filing,

signature requirements and copying regulations are both efficiently and legally

effective.

The

proposed amendments will also allow documents authorized by other acts, such as

claims of builder's liens, to be filed electronically and will allow for

clerical errors in electronic documents to be corrected electronically.

The

Property Transfer Tax Act is also being amended to ensure it is consistent with

the Land Title Act in relation to the implementation of the electronic filing

project. Additional amendments to this act correct previous drafting errors and

undertake a few housekeeping and streamlining changes.

The

amendment to the Local Government Act makes a housekeeping correction to

reference the correct

section of the Agricultural Land Commission Act.

Next, the

Ministry of Lands, Parks and Housing Act and the University Endowment Land Act

are being amended. These changes will allow the minister to delegate authority

under these two acts to public officials or employees of government

corporations. These amendments clarify the authority of Land and Water B.C. to

act on the minister's behalf in administering Crown land. This supports the

timely approval of land tenures and sales and will assist Land and Water B.C.

Inc. in meeting its service plan commitments.

This bill

is an important step in this government's objectives of providing efficient

service to the public and reducing unnecessary regulations. It gives me great

pleasure to move second reading of Bill 15.

Penner: I rise just to share a few comments with respect to Bill 15. What

draws my attention and interest is the provision repealing the provision that

allowed B.C. Hydro back in the 1970s to acquire land for the purposes of a power

project along the Kootenay Canal in the southeast part of British Columbia.

This last

summer I had an opportunity to actually visit that area and visit quite a number

of hydroelectric projects in the region. I think it's just worth remarking, as

we debate this bill and take steps to repeal

an act which helped move the

province forward in terms of electrical generation, that, in fact, that project

is still there working on behalf of all British Columbians and is an integral

part of the B.C. Hydro system.

It's easy

for us to take those kinds of measures for granted, because every evening when

you come home and it's dark, you flip a switch and your lights go on. You go to

turn on your TV, and it works. Well, in fact, it's only because of

forward-thinking and decisive action of previous governments that we do have

reliable electricity at a very low cost that's generated in a very

environmentally sustainable fashion and which causes no emissions of any kind.

If you are a believer in the theory of global warming, you should take comfort

in the fact that large-scale hydroelectric projects do not contribute to

greenhouse gas emissions and are, therefore, a relatively benign form of energy,

particularly when it comes to air quality.

[1450]

I recognize

that anything we do in terms of economic development will have some impact. Just

getting out of bed in the morning has an environmental impact in some way

because of the goods we consume. They don't come out of nowhere, just as the

electricity that we count on to make this Legislature function today and make

television and Hansard service available. All of that happens as a result of

some decision that's been made, which has had some impact on the land base.

But the

worst thing we can do and the most irresponsible thing anyone could think of is

to do nothing. As we consider passing this bill and, certainly, taking a vote on

second reading with respect to this bill, I'd like to encourage all members to

think about the further projects we will need to take in British Columbia to

maintain our standard of living and, in fact, enhance it for the future for all

generations. Just as we today are benefiting from decisions of 30 years ago

around the Kootenay Canal and the electricity that project generates for all of

us, I hope that 30 years hence generations to come will benefit from decisions

we make here today in terms of how we're going to supply our energy needs in an

environmentally responsible fashion.

I know

there's been talk about the potential for Site C or other forms of power

generation in different regions. We have to carefully evaluate all of those, but

the bottom line is: we have to do something. Doing nothing is not a reasonable

alternative. I for one am not prepared to sit idly by and watch us become more

dependent on imported electricity as, unfortunately, over the last few years we

have because the NDP government in the 1990s decided to do nothing. Doing

nothing is not a good option.

I'm proud

to be part of a government that has a bold energy plan and is looking forward to

the future so that we can continue to meet our energy needs going into the

future.

Deputy

Speaker: Seeing no other speakers, the question is second reading of Bill

[ Page 9435 ]

Motion

approved.

Hon. G.

Abbott: I move that Bill 15 be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to

be considered at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 15,

Sustainable Resource Management Statutes Amendment Act, 2004, read a second time

and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next

sitting of the House after today.

Hon. C.

Clark: I call estimates for the Ministry of Health.

Committee of Supply

The House

in Committee of Supply B; K. Stewart in the chair.

The

committee met at 2:54 p.m.

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF

HEALTH SERVICES

(continued)

On vote 25:

ministry operations, $10,404,260,000 (continued) .

The

Chair: We'll call the committee to order at 3 o'clock.

The

committee recessed from 2:55 p.m. to 3:02 p.m.

[K. Stewart in

the chair.]

On vote 25 (continued) .

Sahota: My question relates to the Burnaby mental health program that was

moved to Burnaby Hospital last year. I was wondering if the minister could

comment on the addiction services portion of that, as the minister may be aware

that mental health disorders in conjunction with substance use disorders pose a

high cost to society. Since Burnaby Hospital now does have a mental health

program, I was wondering if she could comment on the addiction services portion

and what is happening to that in Burnaby.

Hon. S.

Brice: The member asks about Burnaby Hospital and the mental health and

addictions services. I know that the Fraser health authority has taken very

seriously the thrust of the Ministry of Health Services to push for a strongly

integrated program of mental health and addictions services. Fraser health

authority has allocated $1 million to ten concurrent-disorder specialists. Those

are for individuals suffering from both mental illness and an addiction problem.

[1505]

They're

going to be introducing a home withdrawal and management detox program for the

residents of Burnaby, New Westminster, Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam. As well,

they're expanding their early psychosis intervention program across all three of

those health service delivery areas.

The member

asks specifically about Burnaby mental health services. I would like to advise

her that this briefing note that has been made available to me indicates that

the Burnaby mental health services have moved to a new home in Burnaby Hospital,

as the member points out. The first floor of the Cascade building is occupied by

out-patient services consisting of central team day program 1 and 2, geriatric

services, community residential program, community rehab services, secure

program, addiction services, a concurrent disorder specialist and administration

offices. Level 2 holds a 25-bed in-patient unit and a three-bed crisis

stabilization unit. The emergency after-hours psychiatric program currently

offered in the Burnaby Hospital emergency department will remain. It would seem

that within the Burnaby mental health services, they are providing a very

complete range of options for their public.

Sahota: My follow-up question would be in terms of the addiction services

team. Who will they be seeing? Is there an age limit? Is it just for adults?

Could the minister please comment on that?

Hon. S.

Brice: I don't have that information available to me at this time, but I

will commit to getting it to the member at the earliest possible time.

J. Bray:

In Victoria we have the downtown core for the region in my riding. Over the last

couple of years we've been dealing with what are often referred to as downtown

issues. We've been focusing a lot of our energy in the capital region on people

living on the street with concurrent disorders, both mental health issues and

addictions issues. Certainly, three years ago when addiction services and mental

health were combined, that was a significant structural improvement. When it was

all placed under the umbrella of Health, that created the platform by which we

could start to look at really good innovative solutions for people living with

concurrent disorders.

I have

spoken many times in the House about what Victoria has done to try to get

coordinated services to deal with people who are living on the street or at risk

of living on the street in Victoria. A year ago in January the city of Victoria,

the Vancouver Island health authority and the Victoria city police got together

and worked on a joint strategy for making sure they were focusing their energies

in their areas of expertise. Out of that came some short-term strategies to deal

with those living on the streets — where the health services could be focused

on by VIHA, where the city could be focusing on some of the issues around

housing, and where the police could be focusing on issues around those who prey

on vulnerable people — pimps and drug dealers — and enforcement issues.

We've had good short-term success. What I'm wanting to canvass with the minister

are some of the intermediate steps —

[ Page 9436 ]

where we're at in those services and where we might be able to go forward.

[1510]

One of the

issues identified by the police was that they spent an awful lot of time on the

criminal justice side dealing with people who were basically in a position,

because of substance abuse, to at any given point in time not be able to go

home. They didn't have a home to go to. They were basically being put in the

drunk tank at the city jail, which was not appropriately staffed for people who

are heavily under the influence. It was certainly not a particularly valuable

place for them to be. There were no services. Or they were taking them to the

emergency room at the Royal Jubilee Hospital, which equally was not a

particularly valuable place for them to be — there were no services — or

taking them to the emergency room at Royal Jubilee Hospital, which was equally

not particularly appropriate, very expensive and created some blockage issues

for people coming in for other health issues.

I know that

very recently in my riding we opened up the Sobering and Assessment Centre. It

would be the place where police could take somebody who couldn't go home or

didn't have a place to go, who was under the influence, but could receive some

of the services. It has only been open for a couple of weeks, but I'm wondering

if the minister can let me know what the initial indications are from the centre

as to the types of people they're seeing and how she sees it filling a gap in an

urban centre where there is a downtown core. I'm wondering if she can start off

with that particular service.

Hon. S.

Brice: The member, of course, references the Vancouver Island health

authority. They clearly have put considerable energy and financial resources

into putting together a broad-based holistic mental health and addictions

service plan for the area. They will be, obviously, looking to the whole Island

to add to the range of options. But in the Victoria area, as the member

mentions, out of the $6.47 million that is going to the mental health renewal

initiative on Vancouver Island, there have been some very good programs here in

the capital region.

It is a

partnership — obviously the Vancouver Island health authority, the local

police and many community agencies working together — and they've really hit

on some of the platforms of what is a full range of services. They've provided a

respite support program for mental health family care home providers and other

caregivers. As the member points out, the Sobering and Assessment Centre has

just recently opened. It is too early for me to have any meaningful data to pass

to the member, but I will say that anecdotally I have heard from those who work

with folks on the street that this has become another good opportunity for safe

care for people who are needing such a facility.

The acute

care groundbreaking for a new psychiatric emergency response unit at the Royal

Jubilee Hospital has been embraced by the entire community and driven by the

Vancouver Island health authority. In terms of outreach, which is the fourth

very important component to a full range of services, we have additional mental

health support workers in Victoria to provide psychosocial rehabilitation

support activities for people in their homes or other places of daily activity

through mobile community outreach.

[1515]

The initial

focus is on those living at risk in the downtown area and those with a lengthy

history of mental illness and/or substance misuse.

Finally,

housing, which of course is an absolute cornerstone to a solid mental health and

addictions service delivery model. There are more housing options for those with

mental illness. There are 12 supported apartments up-Island and 21 here in

Victoria at the Blackwood house for adults with serious and persistent mental

illness. Certainly, Vancouver Island health authority, working with other

stakeholders in this area, is well on its way to providing a good,

comprehensive, solid plethora of services for those with mental illness and

addiction issues.

MacPhail: In the January 26, 2004, letter from the Premier to the Minister

of State for Mental Health and Addiction Services, he gives her the assignment

to continue to work on the ministry service plan, which includes: "…in

concert with local governments, develop an integrated mental health and

addiction service system." What is meant by "in concert with local

governments"?

Hon. S.

Brice: The issue of mental health and addictions is a community issue.

Unlike times past, when these issues were taken and dealt with institutionally,

efforts are being made to have them dealt with within the community. The UBCM,

the spokesbody for local government, has come to the leadership council — the

leadership council is made up of the CEOs of all the health authorities — and

developed a relationship. They have made a commitment to work together on these

issues. Certainly, the Premier has flagged this as an issue where he wants an

even greater relationship between the health care providers and the local

communities.

We are

currently putting together a framework for addictions services. There will be an

opportunity to take this to UBCM, to their health committee, and to hear back

from them how they see that these programs can best be delivered at the

community level.

[1520]

The

sobering centre in Victoria, for instance, is a great example of the mayor and

council identifying a gap in services, working closely with the local health

authority, coming together with a solution and meeting the need at the community

level. There are also some very good communications and working relationships

occurring in Surrey, where the city council and the health authorities have been

dealing with the issue of methadone and how to deal with that very important

issue at their local community level.

So there

will be formalized structures, where it is between UBCM, their health committee

and perhaps

[ Page 9437 ]

the leaders council. There will be other less formal relationships that are

already beginning. They'll be nurtured. Certainly, every opportunity that I get,

I will be using the resources in my office to encourage the maximum consultation

between those two bodies.

MacPhail: I want to ask the minister to offer assurances that this isn't

about downloading of costs onto local governments. In these community plans,

which everybody supports, services delivered at the community level are often

the best services — not always, but often the best. If it is a service that

should be funded out of the provincial government, is the provincial government

going to continue to fund those services? Or is there discussion about where the

local governments will be forced to pick up services that are no longer funded

by the provincial government?

Hon. S.

Brice: No. It is definitely not about downloading. There is a crossover of

services, because obviously both entities are serving the same public. In the

example of housing, for instance, oftentimes the role that the community, the

municipal level of government, can play is in helping communities accept some of

the housing proposals that are for the hard-to-house. Sometimes a NIMBY syndrome

in a community makes it difficult for health care providers to bring in the kind

of housing that is so critical to ensuring that those suffering from a mental

illness get a good chance to have a healthy life. That's a key role the local

government can play.

policing, the relationship between the health authority and those who provide

the policing in a community…. It didn't just start now; it has been growing

more and more. Local governments have realized that community liaison, school

liaison officers…. The jurisdictions don't have defined lines. There is a flow

between the entities.

Certainly,

providing things like recreation centres and libraries, encouraging healthy

lifestyles — all of those things that go to building healthy, independent

citizens — are all really a part of mental wellness and something that the

local communities are very vitally involved in. All we are saying is let's

maximize this joint interest in the local residents and, wherever possible, work

together and oftentimes creatively come up with solutions that didn't exist

before.

[1525]

MacPhail: The reason why I asked about downloading is because the minister

has brought up housing for the mentally ill several times. She was forced to

admit under questioning by the member for Bulkley Valley–Stikine that in

certain areas of the province, when she creates housing for the mentally ill, it

is at the expense of other health care beds, extended care beds — for

instance, the Bulkley Lodge. I think she said nine rooms were going to be

renovated for the mentally ill. Yeah, but they're not nine new rooms. Those are

nine rooms that will be taken from the older people, the seniors there who

require nursing care, extended care coverage.

We know

this government has turned the B.C. Housing Management Commission — which was

the group that used to build housing for low-income families, for the disabled,

for the mentally ill — into an assisted-living housing corporation to make up

for their broken promise around providing intermediate and extended care nursing

home beds.

B.C.

Housing Management Commission isn't building any beds for the mentally ill, and

here's the effect it is having on my community, Vancouver. I know the minister

will say there is no proof of this. Well, the Vancouver Sun just did a

huge series on the homeless in Vancouver, and they report that in the last two

years the number of homeless on the streets has doubled. Those are statistical

studies, very accurate statistical studies. Homelessness has doubled, and four

out of ten homeless are mentally ill.

There are

637 people waiting to get onto the list of 1,300 units of social housing in the

lower mainland. There is no more social housing being built. There are

assisted-living units for seniors being built, but not homes for the mentally

ill. What's the minister's plan to do with that?

Hon. S.

Brice: I'm just pulling together a couple of statistics here to respond to

the member, to give her as much information as I can.

B.C. leads

the country in social housing, and this year we are spending $153 million. It is

B.C.'s highest budget in housing yet. The government funds….

Interjections.

The

Chair: Members, if we can please refer our comments through the Chair. Thank

you.

Hon. S.

Brice: There are 700 shelter beds being funded and 200 extra beds during the

cold wet months. As the member points out, homelessness in some parts of the

province is a very, very serious issue.

[1530]

We have

integrated addiction services with mental health to provide a coordinated system

of services, to stop people from being excluded. Those people with chronic

mental illness and other frail conditions are of absolute importance to the

Ministry of Health Services and to the health authorities. The authorities do

provide a range of supported housing and residential care for people with

serious mental and substance use disorders, and they've established strong links

with B.C. Housing, the non-profit housing sector and private landlords to secure

access to safe, secure and affordable housing.

There are

six distinct types of housing related to services available in B.C. for people

with serious mental illness and/or with substance use disorders. I would just

like to put those into the record. There is mental health residential care.

There are mental health family care homes. There are residential addictions

[ Page 9438 ]

treatment facilities, supported recovery facilities, mental health supported

housing and emergency hostels.

MacPhail: None of which has been expanded by this government, unless it is

taking money from Peter to pay Paul. The number of homeless has doubled in

Vancouver alone. In Surrey it is on the increase. In towns like Kelowna it is on

the increase — Smithers, Prince George. And four out of ten homeless are

mentally ill.

Tell me

this. The B.C. Housing Management Commission used to work with the Ministry of

Health to provide residential care — homes, housing — for the mentally ill.

What have they done in the last 12 months to expand that? Why has only $20

million of the $138 million on the capital plan for mental health been expended

so far? We're almost through the third year of this government.

Hon. S.

Brice: It is not accurate to say that nothing has been done, and I would

like to give some examples here. In Victoria there is a new apartment project

that helps people with mental illness. It is called Blackwood Apartments, and it

provides extensive service for people who need support as they move from the

acute care system toward independent living. The tenant's level of functioning

and degree of recovery will be regularly assessed to ensure the appropriate

services are made available at the correct time.

This

housing resource, this Victoria resource, will offer its 21 tenants a wide range

of supportive services on a continuous basis. These include apartment-style

living, medication support, home support, independent living skill assessment,

support and assistance in developing skills to prepare meals and shop, social

support, rehab planning and support, and referral to community-based services to

facilitate movement to more independent living.

I know that

at my fingertips here I do have another example from Vancouver for individuals

at risk of homelessness and families with low income to have more access to

permanent housing. That was the construction of the new Dunsmuir House. That's

on Homer Street. I'm sure the member is familiar with that one. It is owned and

operated by the Salvation Army, and the development will replace the existing

Dunsmuir House for men. It is set to open in the spring of 2004. Dunsmuir House

will provide a variety of employment, training and social services to help

tenants become more independent. Classrooms and communal spaces will encourage

social interaction and help break the cycle of loneliness that many tenants

face.

[1535]

The issue

of the capital and the $138 million that is committed. To date $20 million of

that has been expended, but a lot more projects are in the planning phase. As

you set about to commit to the degree of capital program that has been committed

to, a lot of the work in the planning and the land acquisition is at the front

end, and the actual rolling out of the projects which have started and have

shown to be of great value in the communities that already have them will be

soon be expanded. Many more of these will be seen throughout the province as

that capital fund is tapped.

MacPhail: So far we have 21 beds in Victoria and a proposed project in

Vancouver, Dunsmuir House, of which the greater proportion is assumed by the

religious order. The government funding has been cut back in that area. We're

supposed to — what — wait for the other $118 million in capital funds that

the former minister of state used to stand up every day and talk about when

asked a question? It's right here in the New Era document update.

Funny —

that police raid isn't in the New Era update. Here it says:

"…dedicated $138 million in funding for new facilities, including new

mental health centres now open in Coquitlam, Victoria, Prince George and

Kamloops." I guess that's the $20 million. Maybe the minister could list

the projects that are going to have the other $118 million expended in the next

year.

Hon. S.

Brice: The number of units that are completed or about to be opened is

extensive. However, I feel the need to elaborate on it because it's important,

and it's important to get it into the record.

Vancouver

Island health authority in Campbell River, completed '01-02, six units;

Chilliwack supportive housing, two units, completed '03-04 and '01-02; Canadian

Mental Health Association in Horsefly, completed '01-02; New Opportunities for

Women in Kelowna, completed '03-04; NOW Canada Society in Kelowna, completed

'02-03; Nechako Valley Community Services Society, Nechako Valley, completed

'01-02; Nelson District Community Resources Society in Nelson — two projects

there, both completed in '01-02; Cascadia Society for Social Working in North

Vancouver, completed '03-04; Community Friendship Circle Society, Port Hardy,

completed '01-02; association advocating for women and children in Prince

George, '01-02; Vancouver coastal health authority, Squamish, Powell River,

'01-02; South Fraser Community Services Society in Surrey, '03-04; city of

Vancouver in Vancouver, '02-03; St. James Community Service Society in the New

World Hotels in Vancouver, '01-02; Vancouver Resources Society, '02-03; Cool Aid

Society in Victoria, '01-02; and 178 under development in North Vancouver,

Surrey, Vancouver and Victoria.

[1540]

There are

784 more housing units completed and another 173 under construction. The cities

where these are, are Kamloops, Kelowna, Kimberley, Langley, Nanaimo, New

Westminster, Penticton, Prince George, Surrey and Vancouver, Vernon, Nanaimo

and, again, Vancouver. The completion date ranges from September '04 to January

'06.

MacPhail: The vast majority of the list the minister read off was completed

'01-02. Guess what. They were planned, paid for and constructed under the

previous government. It's embarrassing that the minister

[ Page 9439 ]

included that in the list. Let me ask the minister how many units of….

Interjections.

The

Chair: Members, can we allow the Leader of the Opposition to complete her

question.

MacPhail: Let's be clear. Any project completed in '01-02 was to the full

credit of the previous government — full stop. Let me ask about the units that

this government has planned for, paid for and constructed — this government

and this government alone.

Hon. S.

Brice: The member asks for projects completed and underway put into the

record here. In Kamloops — Royal Inland, 44-bed acute tertiary mental health

underway, completion by May of 2005. Kamloops — Overlander, 20 beds completed.

Cranbrook — Green Memorial Home, seven beds completed. Vernon — five-bed

residential home underway. Vernon — Polson, five beds underway. Trail —

Harbour House, three beds and six opening next week. Prince George — Iris

House, ten-bed expansion complete. Terrace — Seven Sisters 20-bed residential

adult under construction. Smithers — Bulkley Valley, 14-bed psychogeriatric

renovation underway. Fort St. John — North Peace Care Centre, eight-bed

psychogeriatric renovation underway.

All of the

other health authority projects are in the pre-planning stage. As I mentioned

previously to the member, $138 million is committed, and so far $20 million has

been expended. A lot of the other projects are in the planning and land

acquisition phase. Very shortly we will be moving on to the underway stage.

MacPhail: By the minister's own admission, fewer than 100 beds added to the

system. Some are underway. Some are part of the Riverview downsizing, so they're

not net beds added to the system at all. The 44 in Kamloops…. It's the

regional facility for the downsizing of Riverview. Fewer than 100 beds added,

and those cabinet ministers like to say what a great job they're doing. Fewer

than 100 beds even planned for, let alone opened. We have double the number of

homeless in Vancouver alone — 600 people, of which 40 percent are mentally

ill.

[1545]

Is the

minister committing that the full $138 million will be spent by April 17, 2005,

when the election is called?

Hon. S.

Brice: The amount of activity that is going on in this area is significant.

Unlike times past where everybody who had a serious mental illness was

institutionalized, now the philosophy and way of dealing with this is to have a

wider range of options. Yes, there have been 100 beds added, and that is a good

thing. But as well, there have been 229 supported-housing units, and there are

178 other beds under construction — 507 in total. We are very proud of that.

That has been working in partnership to best meet the needs of the clients — a

wide range of options.

The

question about the $138 million…. The commitment is made to have $138 million

dedicated to the completion of this by '07.

MacPhail: I can understand why you would say '07, because in your first

three years of office you have only spent $20 million of the $138 million. It is

all very well and good for governments to throw around commitments; it's the

delivery that people are concerned about. What is the wait-list provincewide for

people with mental illnesses waiting for housing?

[1550]

Hon. S.

Brice: The number of mental health beds…. The member asks about a waiting

list. There isn't a waiting list per se. I will tell the member that the health

authorities do provide a wide range of supported-housing residential care for

people with serious mental and substance use disorders. At a later point in

estimates the member may wish to canvass my colleague the Minister of Community,

Aboriginal and Women's Services on more detail about housing. But to focus on

what the health authorities provide, they have established strong links with

B.C. Housing, the non-profit housing sector and private landlords to secure

access to safe, secure and affordable housing.

There are

six distinct types of housing. There is the mental health residential, mental

health family care homes, residential addiction treatment facilities,

supported-recovery facilities, mental health supported housing and emergency

hostels. In B.C. we have 1,500 mental health residential care beds. We have 125

mental health family care home beds, 300 residential addiction treatment

facility beds, 350 supported-recovery facility beds, and there are approximately

2,200 clients receiving ongoing support through the supported independent living

program. There are also supported hotels, approximately 150 spaces in four

facilities: Hampton Hotel, Portland Hotel, Princess Rooms and Jubilee Rooms in

Vancouver. For most of the residents, the provision of supported services is

long term.

MacPhail: The Minister of State for Mental Health isn't aware of any

wait-lists? Who does coordinate the wait-lists for mental health services? Is

that a regional health authority issue? If so, can the minister tell me what

health authorities — besides my own, the Vancouver coastal health authority

— have cut funding to mental health programs? My authority, the Vancouver

coastal health authority, cut funding for mental health programs.

[1555]

[J. Weisbeck

in the chair.]

Hon. S.

Brice: The community-based mental health and addictions services at the

health authority level in all five of the health authorities have increased from

'01

[ Page 9440 ]

to '04. In Fraser, interior, northern, Vancouver coastal and Vancouver

Island, each year they have increased.

MacPhail: I don't know how the minister can make a statement about that. I

know my own Vancouver coastal health authority has cut mental health programs. I

know that. I don't know under what basis the minister stands up and says that,

unless they're doing like they're doing over in Community, Aboriginal and

Women's Services. They're using child care money to pay for midwives, for

instance. That's what they're doing over there. Money that's given by the

federal government for early childhood development and child care, this

government is using to pay midwives — not exactly what people had in mind.

They're using it to pay for the nurse help line. It's not exactly what people

had in mind. I'm sure somebody here is saying: "Oh, we can identify that as

mental health, so who knows whether it has anything to do with mental health or

not."

The

minister made quite a statement about mental health services for children. What

are the wait-lists for mental health services for children like?

Hon. S.

Brice: As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the child and youth mental

health services are the responsibility of the Ministry of Children and Family

Development.

MacPhail: Okay, we're certainly going to be asking those questions of the

Minister of Children and Family Development. But is there no integration with

the Minister of State for Mental Health? What about when a child is late teens

— 16 or 17? What happens?

Hon. S.

Brice: There is a good deal of coordination and discussion between myself

and the Minister of Children and Family Development, as well as other ministers

in government. We recognize that these issues really do cross over ministries.

The former Minister of State for Mental Health was very involved in helping with

the development of the child and youth mental health plan. I certainly will be

having ongoing discussions. We have a shared interest, obviously, in the

outcomes.

Early

intervention means healthier individuals who become healthier adults. The member

may have heard, as an example, an announcement last week of a new program that

the Ministry of Children and Family Development launched, called the friends

program in the school system. It's to help children identify cues for when they

need help with coping skills. It's integrating education, health and making for

stronger kids, so they will become healthier adults. Indeed, there is a lot of

crossover between those two ministries.

[1600]

MacPhail: Yes. It's a sad day today, when I might note that at the same time

the government is doing this program, they're cutting the funding for the

anti-bullying programs. It's very sad today that the government made a big deal

out of some champions against bullying, a brave family, but the anti-bullying

program funding has been cut across the board. The schools in my riding and in

the community in which I live are being directly affected by that, and it's

getting worse. Every day it's getting worse. There are no programs…. I

shouldn't say there are no programs, but the programs to educate about bullying,

a lot of which leads to mental health issues on both sides, the bully and the

bullied…. The tools that educators and parents have available to them to deal

with bullying have decreased every year under this government and have almost

disappeared now.

In terms of

the advocacy, what funding does the minister provide for mental health advocacy?

Hon. S.

Brice: The provincial funding for mental health and addictions information,

education and advocacy, which we do with our partners, who are absolutely

focused and committed to their cause — the Canadian Mental Health Association,

B.C. Schizophrenia Society, Anxiety Disorders Association of B.C., Mood

Disorders Association of B.C., Association for Awareness and Networking around

Disordered Eating and the Kaiser Foundation…. The province commits $1.6

million for that. Of those partners, each receives $120,000 in sort of base

funding, and then they propose projects. From within the partners group they

determine how the additional dollars are to be expended.

MacPhail: In the fall of this year, in the prebudget consultation tour of

the legislative Committee on Finance, the Schizophrenia Society made a

presentation in the Okanagan that their funding was about to be cut. Was it?

[1605]

Hon. S.

Brice: The Schizophrenia Society, which of course is a very highly respected

partner in the provincial funding group of partners that we work with, was a

part of the decision, informed by the letter here. I'll just read from it. It's

to the president of the B.C. Schizophrenia Society. I don't have a date on this;

perhaps somebody can get that for me.

This is one

of the paragraphs: "I'd like to clarify for you the process that has been

occurring over the past year and a half to provide a coordinated approach to the

development and dissemination of evidence-based, quality and timely information

to British Columbians in a standard manner. BCSS has been an active participant

in all discussions and planning that have occurred, and I regret that you have

not received regular updates in the process." There must have been some

communication glitch there.

The

Schizophrenia Society, as I said, like all other partners, receives $120,000 in

base funding. They are certainly encouraged, at liberty and open — and I

certainly hope will take advantage — to put other proposals together to the

group who makes a decision about where best for these additional dollars to go.

There is $1.694 million for the group to avail themselves of so

[ Page 9441 ]

that there is less duplication, more integration and a better chance to get

the message out. Certainly, the B.C. Schizophrenia Society, I have no doubt,

will have some projects and some plans that they will be bringing forward in

order to access that funding source.

MacPhail: Let me repeat my question: has or will the B.C. Schizophrenia

Society had or have their funding cut?

Hon. S.

Brice: In the process of redesigning the way the money is spent, most of the

partners had a change. The B.C. Schizophrenia Society did have a reduction in

the base funding. They have an increase in the amount of money available to them

for the projects that they feel will advance the issues important to their

society.

MacPhail: Well, one is a cut to their base funding, and the other is access

to a pool of money that everybody has to compete for. What was the cut to the

funding for the B.C. Schizophrenia Society, please?

Hon. S.

Brice: Prior to the B.C. Partners, the Canadian Mental Health Association

had $600,000. Now they've got the base funding. The B.C. Schizophrenia Society

had $330,000. Now they have the base. The Anxiety Disorders Association had only

$100,000. Now theirs is increased to get the same base of $120,000. The Mood

Disorders Association had $242,000 and now has $120,000. The Association for

Awareness and Networking around Disordered Eating went from $80,000 up to

$120,000. The Kaiser Foundation went from $160,000 to $120,000.

There is an

increase in the total funding. Prior to the B.C. Partners program, the total

expenditure was $1.512 million. Now, with the B.C. Partners, it is $1.694

million. It is an increase. Each of the partners has the same base funding, and

they now have access to a larger pool of money to do targeted projects in a

coordinated way.

MacPhail: Well, I know the minister likes to spin as much as she possibly

can about when a cut isn't a cut. The Liberal government doesn't like to ever

admit when they've cut something.

[1610]

Base

funding is core funding for ongoing advocacy and services to families, those

families who look after people, and offers support for their family or their

friends with mental illness. It's what keeps them stable. What this government

has said is: "We're going to slash the heck out of your core funding —

and oh, by the way, bid amongst these other people for project money." It's

not what the community advocates wanted, it's not what they asked for, and it's

not what's good for making community services the right way to go.

The

minister talks about how in the old days we institutionalized people and now we

offer them community services. Well, it turns out that the community services

funding has been slashed.

What's

happening with the Riverview downsizing plan? Riverview, for those who may not

know in the public, is the psychiatric institution that has been downsized over

the past 15 years.

Hon. S.

Brice: I apologize to the member. I was distracted. Would she give me the

focused question again? Sorry.

MacPhail: We were talking about community services, and I asked for an

update on the Riverview downsizing project. For those who may not know in the

audience, Riverview Hospital was a psychiatric hospital that has been in the

process of being downsized over the last — well, that I'm aware of — 15

years.

Hon. S.

Brice: As the member points out, the Riverview redevelopment project has

been underway for some time. I think everyone associated with this client group

is excited about the potential. The Ministry of Health Services has committed

over five years to the redevelopment and enhancement of this provincial tertiary

mental health service.

The

Riverview Hospital redevelopment project steering committee is responsible for

guiding the redevelopment of tertiary and mental health services by '07-08, and

the transition planning committees are in place within each geographic health

authority to oversee the development of the new facilities and plan for the

transfer of the patients.

The

activity to date. I have read some of that into the record previously, but I

think it will be good to do it here. Almost 75 patients have been transferred

from the old and outdated facilities at Riverview to three new tertiary

psychiatric centres recently opened in communities across the province. As we

know, there are others opening even as early as next week. I mentioned before,

of course, the Seven Oaks near Victoria on Vancouver Island. It opened 24 new

specialized mental health beds. Iris House opened with ten beds in Prince George

in April of '02 and expanded it in April of '03. As well, there's the new South

Hills Tertiary Psychiatric Rehabilitation Centre in Kamloops. It opened 40 new

beds.

[1615]

Certainly,

there is considerable work yet to be done. The health authorities are working on

that, identifying land and resources. I fully expect that very shortly we'll be

hearing about other phases of this redevelopment.

The

Chair: Member, one second. One of the members would like to make an

introduction.

Introductions by Members

R. Masi:

It's my pleasure to introduce, from Union Bay Elementary Shool, 50 grades 5

and 6 students accompanied by six adults, along with their teacher, Mr.

Morrison. Would the House please make them all welcome.

[ Page 9442 ]

Debate Continued

MacPhail: I have the two bulletins from…. Let me just see whether

there's…. Oh yeah, there are more bulletins here. The Riverview redesign

project. It's my understanding that the Vancouver coastal health authority is

still in charge of the redesign project.

Hon. S.

Brice: That is the responsibility of the provincial health services

authority.

MacPhail: Okay. What role does the Vancouver coastal health authority play

in it? My bulletins are from them.

Hon. S.

Brice: Every health authority has a role to play in this, because as the

community that these folks are returning to, the health authority has the

responsibility to design facilities that will meet the needs of the patients who

are being moved as a result of the Riverview redevelopment.

The

Vancouver health authority will be responsible for and actually be receiving 209

beds as a result of the Riverview redevelopment.

MacPhail: Okay. If it's the provincial health services authority, what

consultation information system have they got set up with the families of

residents of Riverview Hospital and the residents themselves?

Hon. S.

Brice: I'm going to go at the answer two-pronged, if I could. For the

individuals who will be returning to the community through the redevelopment

project, each individual client will have a care plan, which will involve their

family and the receiving community and facility. Certainly, built into it is a

very big expectation that the transition should be one that is easy for the

clients and supportive of the families.

[1620]

The member

may be referring to the Access program, which is another sort of aspect of this,

and it's a highly successful initiative designed to support patient goals of

community reintegration. This initiative provided enhanced funding to support

the discharge of patients from Riverview who were ready to leave hospital but

continue to require mental health services and supports.

The

Ministry of Health Services in total provided $4.050 million of annualized

funding to place up to 125 patients under the Access project for the '03-04

fiscal year. Working with Fraser health and Vancouver coastal health

authorities, Riverview Hospital has successfully discharged 133 patients to

enhanced community placements as of February 2004, and planning is underway to

discharge another 15 patients under the Access program by the end of March '04.

Fraser

health authority and the Vancouver coastal health authority have used Access

funding to develop new and expand existing mental health resources available in

the community. These include creating new beds in residential facilities,

increasing the number of semi-independent living placements, adding new outreach

workers, increasing rehab staff and case managers, and increasing the number of

support workers available to assist patients.

While it's

not unusual for some Riverview patients to require readmission within the first

year of discharge, patients discharged under the Access project have a

readmission rate of only 12 percent in the first year. When compared to an

average readmission rate of 25 percent for patients regularly discharged, I

think by all accounts this can signal good health outcomes.

MacPhail: What happened to the Willow Clinic that was at the old Woodlands

site and converted to a mental health community support clinic? What's its

status?

Hon. S.

Brice: The Willow is a Ministry of Children and Family Development program,

so I would leave the member to put the questions when those estimates are on the

floor.

MacPhail: Why? I thought it was a community clinic to support the people

with mental health issues. Is it dealing with children? I mean, I'm wondering

why I can't ask questions about it. It's an adult facility, as far as I

remember.

Hon. S.

Brice: The Willow Clinic is the responsibility of MCFD, so I certainly would

want the member to get the most up-to-date information through those estimates.

But I can tell the member that it has provided specialized assessment and care

services for clients with IQ under 70 with a mental disorder. There we've got

that dual diagnosis. Plans for closure of Willow Clinic are being implemented,

but I don't have the up-to-date statistics on that. I would encourage you to put

those to the minister when the estimates are up for MCFD.

MacPhail: Well, it is a community approach for people with dual diagnoses,

and I was hoping the minister would be able to tell me it isn't being closed.

We'll be asking those questions of the Ministry of Children and Family

Development.

I want to

ask a couple of questions about the indicators and the performance measures in

the service plan, then addiction services questions and then perhaps some about

the downtown east side, but that will probably be under the addiction services.

Then that's it for me, Mr. Chair, on the Minister of State for Mental Health

estimates.

[1625]

I'm looking

at page 11 of the service plan '02-03, '04-05. Was there an updated service plan

for mental health indicators? No. Okay. Anyway, I'll just ask my questions, and

the minister can tell me whether they've changed or not. The mental health

indicators. Now, I spent quite a bit of time on this with the former Minister of

State for Mental Health, because the indicators have no baseline. For instance,

it says: "Mental health

[ Page 9443 ]

indicators. Improved continuity of care measured by the proportion of persons

hospitalized for a mental health diagnosis who receive community or physician

follow-up within 30 days of discharge." I spent a lot of time on this with

the former minister, because the target for '02-03 was a 3 percent increase. And

I would say: a 3 percent increase of what? There was no baseline. Anyway, can

the minister update me on the success of meeting those performance targets?

Hon. S.

Brice: The information that the member refers to is part of the mental

health care reform package, which you will find in the performance agreements,

and those are on the webpage to give you the specifics. The breakout, looking at

these days as a percent of hospital in-patient days, ages 15 to 64, hospitalized

for mental health diagnosis in B.C. — we've got the figures for '02-03.

They're for examination, and all but one of the health authorities have met the

target.

MacPhail: Okay. I'm looking at the indicator 4(

a) that says: "Improved

continuity of care measured by the proportion of persons hospitalized for a

mental health diagnosis who receive community or physician follow-up within 30

days of discharge." Is that the target that the minister is saying all but

one have met — of a 3 percent increase?

Hon. S.

Brice: On that same page, under "Percent of mental health clients

receiving community or physician follow-up within 30 days of discharge from

hospital, " in B.C. the target was achieved across the province — 72.3

percent.

MacPhail: I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. It may be

that I have — because I'm pleased to get this information….

Interjection.

MacPhail: I'm on the service plan, but it's the service plan of '02-03,

'04-05, dated February '02. I hope it's the same. I'm on page 11 of that. It's

the mental health indicators. Perhaps the minister can just read her mental

health indicator and the changes and the targets into the record — what the

indicator was and what the achievement was.

[1630]

Hon. S.

Brice: Just a clarification, if I could, from the member. The service plan

that was filed with these estimates is '04-05 to '06-07, and I'm under the

impression here, by looking at these documents, that perhaps the member is

referring to the '02 to '05. If that is the case, would the member wish a copy

of the current service plan?

MacPhail: No, that's okay. I have a copy, just not the one here. I assume,

because performance measures are supposed to remain consistent so that we can

see the change, that the newest report has the same indicators. I would ask the

minister to read the results of the performance measures into the record.

Hon. S.

Brice: In the '02-03 annual service plan report, under "Improved

continuity of care measured by the proportion of persons hospitalized for a

mental health diagnosis who receive community or physician follow-up within 30

days of discharge," the target was 3 percent — and achieved, 3 percent.

MacPhail: Okay. This was the discussion I had with the former minister of

state. How do you know that — 3 percent of what? You see, I could never find

out what the baseline was. The minister clearly knows the baseline, because she

says she has achieved it. What percentage of it was before '02-03 that led to

the 3 percent increase?

Hon. S.

Brice: There are a number of documents here, and I want to be absolutely

certain that the information I give the member is accurate. I'm going to suggest

that I'll have the information pulled together and make every effort to get it

to her as soon as possible.

MacPhail: That's fine. I would like as much information as the minister of

state has on achieving the mental health indicators in the most recent service

plan, and that's fine. Again, I think the minister does understand that I need

to understand how the minister of state reached those conclusions.

I'm sorry;

my staff will kill me. I did have the service plan behind that service plan, Mr.

Chair. My apologies to staff — that I look like I'm ill-prepared. They have it

here. Anyway, that's fine. The minister can get that to me.

My last

area that I'll spend a bit of time on now is addiction services. Can the

minister break out the funding specific for addiction services? She gave me a

global number of $622 million spent last year on mental health and addiction

services. Does no one break out the addiction services funding?

[1635]

Hon. S.

Brice: The addiction figures are not extrapolated. The mental health and

addiction services are combined, and rolled out in '03-04 to the authorities, it

was $339,538,756 and an additional $147 million-plus to the PHSA. The program

development is so integrated in terms of mental health and addictions that the

money is given globally to the health authorities, and they design the programs

best to meet the clients that they serve.

MacPhail: Sorry. The $147 million to the PHSA, provincial health services

authority — what's that for?

Hon. S.

Brice: I know Riverview certainly takes up the vast majority of that budget.

MacPhail: I was just confused. I was looking for a figure that added up to

$622 million, because that's what I was told earlier.

[ Page 9444 ]

Hon. S.

Brice: The $622 million includes the acute care, the community based — all

the programs. The figure of $339 million that I gave you was just the

community-based mental health and addiction services.

MacPhail: I have many questions about youth addiction. Is that still the

responsibility of the Minister of Children and Family Development?

Hon. S.

Brice: That falls to the Minister of State for Mental Health and Addiction

Services.

[1640]

MacPhail: Well, there has been quite a series…. I'm sure the minister is

aware of this, particularly in the lower mainland — the lack of addiction

services for youth. I'm particularly troubled about it with the closure of the

safe-house beds that affect my community — youth safe-house beds operated by

the Urban Native Youth Association — because they were basically beds that

dealt with addicted youth. Almost all of the youth that ended up there at the

safe house were addicted as well. That's what I know is a cut to addiction

services.

Perhaps the

minister can outline what addiction services there are for youth today.

Hon. S.

Brice: The addictions residential capacity funded by regional health

authorities — those are the numbers I'll give you. In the Fraser health

authority there is a total of 16 youth and three youth detox. The interior

health authority have listed their total, with an asterisk confirming their

youth residents, so that's not been broken out yet by the interior health

authority for our purposes. In the northern health authority there are six youth

and nine youth detox. In Vancouver coastal there are eight youth and nine youth

detox. In Vancouver Island health authority there are two youth, ten youth detox

and one youth care home.

[1645]

I just

would make a note that the youth with addiction issues who have come into

conflict with the law come under the responsibility of the Ministry of Children

and Family Development, so they're not included in those statistics.

MacPhail: Well, what plans does the Minister of State for Mental Health have

to expand services for addicted youth? I mean, that's not a great record.

According to this government, the issue of drug use is a huge issue. I just

heard a member do a member's statement this afternoon on grow ops. We know that

there's a huge problem with crystal meth use. Alcohol use is on the rise amongst

young people. So what are the plans for greater investment in addiction services

for youth?

Hon. S.

Brice: Just to clarify my previous statement. Remember that, along with the

publicly funded youth and detox and treatment facilities, there do exist some

other privately funded agencies and organizations, as well, to add to the mix.

To the

member's question, obviously youth issues around addictions — a hugely

important public issue for all of us in this House as we look and see what is

out there and what is coming in. We know that we have to work as early as

possible for early intervention and to build a whole range of services for youth

and addiction issues. As the member would know, it doesn't make sense to just

simply fund more detox facilities, because it becomes a revolving door. That's

why, working with the health authorities, their responsibility is to look at the

community. We have combined mental health and addictions, because we do

recognize that of the individuals arriving at a community with mental health

issues, 70 percent have an addiction issue as well.

The

building blocks are in place. The health authorities are having to work with

their communities. Do I think we are there? Absolutely not. Is there a lot to

do? There certainly is — and lots of people to be involved. The issue of youth

and addiction is an extremely serious community issue, and there will be a lot

of focus put on youth and addictions for my time in this office.

[1650]

MacPhail: What services is the minister planning for aboriginal youth who

are addicted?

Hon. S.

Brice: We are currently working on the addictions framework. When that

framework is complete, I will be taking it to each of the health authorities in

order for them to have a framework upon which to build their programs.

Every

health authority is required to have an aboriginal plan. Certainly, a big

priority in that is aboriginal issues around mental health and addictions. The

public health officer, of course, chooses to identify health issues for

aboriginal youth as something that requires constant attention in this province.

Some of the efforts toward the aboriginal tobacco strategy have been quite

successful. The ministry has provided $9.66 million to health authorities to

support aboriginal community capacity-building and direct services. There's a

total of $540,000 in aboriginal mental health funding for the nine aboriginal

mental health liaison workers in British Columbia.

MacPhail: Does this minister have any input into the Vancouver agreement?

Hon. S.

Brice: We are a strong partner in that agreement. Currently, the CEO of the

Vancouver coastal health authority sits on the committee, along with an ADM from

the Ministry of Health Services.

MacPhail: What other ministries of the provincial government are at the

table at the Vancouver agreement?

[ Page 9445 ]

Hon. S.

Brice: The ministries represented are Health Services; Community, Aboriginal

and Women's Services; and Human Resources. Community, Aboriginal and Women's

Services is the lead on that.

MacPhail: I wanted to make sure that my colleague the member for

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant would have an opportunity to ask questions on that.

She will in the estimates of the Ministry of Community, Aboriginal and Women's

Services.

[1655]

The member

for Bulkley Valley–Stikine asked some questions about the safe injection site

in the downtown east side of Vancouver. I appreciate the minister's answers and

recollect them. Perhaps she could answer a question about whether there are any

other discussions going on about providing similar services elsewhere in the

province.

Hon. S.

Brice: The steering committee has included representatives from the Fraser,

Vancouver Island and Vancouver coastal health authorities and also the

provincial health services authority. They recognize that the supervised

injection site is a pilot project. It will be evaluated, so they obviously will

be extremely interested to see the results of that.

I would be

thinking, in the interim, that a number of communities are starting to have some

discussions. Obviously, community acceptance is a major issue when it comes to

placing some of these services within communities. At this point, there are

undoubtedly informal discussions going on. Everyone will be awaiting the results

of the three-year pilot before any decisions are taken, I'm sure.

MacPhail: What's the arrangement for funding the safe injection site in

Vancouver, and for how long?

Hon. S.

Brice: The supervised injection site. Of course, the province put $1.2

million into capital, and the Premier committed to a $2 million one-time

transition funding to ensure the project could get up and running. The Vancouver

coastal health authority is currently looking at all of its contracts and

agreements and looking at its whole range of addiction services to seek ways to

find sustainable funding for that project.

MacPhail: I want to ask my final questions, which are going to be about

smoking — tobacco addiction. I do want to urge the minister in her commitment,

which I can only take as sincere, to addiction services for youth. There are a

range of services needed, gaps that need to be filled. They've been long-term

gaps — I make no bones about that — but it certainly doesn't seem sensible

at all to cut what services are available now. The continuum of services also

means that addicted youth sometimes show up as children who require safe

housing. It just doesn't make any sense to eliminate residential safe housing,

let alone any other services that would embrace addicted youth.

My last

questions are in the area of the tobacco reduction strategy. Could I please have

an update in terms of money spent on tobacco use reduction and an update on the

court case of suing the tobacco companies by the provincial government?

[1700]

Hon. S.

Brice: In the budget for tobacco issues $3.5 million in fiscal '03-04 was

spent, and that includes funding to health authorities of $1.67 million. There

was an additional $675,000 provided by Health Canada to the ministry to fund the

health authorities for enforcement of the federal Tobacco Act. Any dollars that

would be dedicated to the litigation won't be disclosed, obviously, until that

action concludes. The appeal has been heard in the B.C. Court of Appeal, and a

decision is expected very shortly.

MacPhail: What are the smoking rates? What's the trend in British Columbia,

please?

Hon. S.

Brice: In this area, because of many years of combined effort from a number

of levels of government, community agencies and such, we have made good headway

in this province. In every category we are well ahead of the Canadian averages.

In 15 years-plus we're at 16 percent in B.C., with a Canadian average of 21

percent. In the 15-to-19-year-old group, it's 15 percent. The Canadian average

is 22 percent.

The

20-to-24-year age group…. Here's where there have been some concerns, because

that group is actually smoking at a rate of 22 percent in our province — which

has, you know, really very low smoking percentages. Officials within the

ministry are looking at it to try and see just exactly what's impacting on that.

Even that 22 percent is well under the Canadian average of 31 percent in that

category. In those 25 years and older, B.C. is 16 percent, with a Canadian

average of 20 percent.

MacPhail: I wasn't aware of that 20-to-24-year statistic. I'm pleased that

the ministry is looking at that, and it's wonderful to see the trend lines down

in every other category. Sorry, I did say last question, but I just have one

other question. Is gambling addiction part of this minister's responsibility?

Hon. S.

Brice: That rests with the Solicitor General and Public Safety.

MacPhail: Thank you. I will ask my questions then. I'm going to yield the

floor to my colleague from Victoria–Beacon Hill.

I would

like to thank both the Minister of State for Mental Health and the Minister of

Health Services, and particular thanks to all of the staff at the Ministry of

Health Services for all of their efforts — a very big thank-you.

[1705]

[K. Stewart in

the chair.]

[ Page 9446 ]

J. Bray:

I'd like to pick up with the minister where I was earlier. My first question had

been around the programs and services that the city of Victoria, the Vancouver

Island health authority and the city of Victoria police were trying to

coordinate to deal with issues impacting downtown — people with concurrent

disorders — and trying to provide a coordinated approach to all those things.

My first question was around the sobering assessment centre. The minister not

only provided me a good answer to that question but actually outlined some of

the other solutions being put in place. I have some more specific questions

based on her answer.

One of the

issues she raised was the start of construction for the Royal Jubilee emergency

psychiatric facility. My understanding of the concept of this facility is that

the Eric Martin Pavilion in Royal Jubilee served as sort of a tertiary centre

for people with severe or acute mental health issues. The feedback, in my

understanding, that came back was that the general emergency room was not

appropriate for people suffering from mental illness who were having an acute

break or other symptoms. It was a problem for those patients, but it was also,

quite frankly, a problem for some of the other people in the emergency room.

understanding is that the new facility is really meant to be an adjunct to the

emergency room to provide a streamlined, properly staffed entry point for people

having these acute mental health issues. Is my understanding correct as to

actually what the purpose of that emergency psychiatric facility is for?

Hon. S.

Brice: The member for Victoria–Beacon Hill, who has been a big advocate

for services for mental health and addiction, is quite right in his assessment

of the Royal Jubilee psychiatric emergency department. It will be designed

specifically for those who are experiencing an acute episode, a psychotic event

and others. These folks need specialized facilities, specialized services and

specialized care providers, and this is going to be a fabulous addition to the

health care services in this area. It will allow those people who are

experiencing a mental health issue to be dealt with appropriately and then be

moved quickly on to the next level of wellness.

J. Bray:

That certainly is, I think, good news both for the region and, in fact, for

Vancouver Island.

Is this a

first facility of this type or first design where you're actually creating a

separate space for emergency services for people with mental illness in British

Columbia? Is this something that's quite common, or are we breaking new ground

in British Columbia and Canada with really dedicating services in this up-front

fashion for people accessing this acute mental health system?

[1710]

Hon. S.

Brice: The concept of providing special services to those with special needs

is not new. There certainly have been programs in the past; Vancouver General

had a facility. That was some time ago. Certainly, even though there were very

dedicated staff and wonderful attempts, compared to what we'll be able to offer

today, it's like night and day. The very contemporary facility that's going to

be at the Jubilee will be, by all accounts, cutting edge and no doubt will be

looked at elsewhere.

It was, as

the member knows, the dream of a number of families who had experienced very sad

cases in their family of individuals who had not had good care when they were

mentally ill. It drove those families to spearhead some very significant funding

through the Greater Victoria Hospitals Foundation that really helped boost that

ahead. It is wonderful that those generous donors have come together, along with

the health authority. I think this will indeed be a wonderful addition to the

health offerings in the capital region.

J. Bray:

My final two questions on this particular area. When is the facility anticipated

to be opened? Has the Vancouver Island health authority satisfied the minister

that they've got the right staffing strategy in place to ensure that when it's

projected to be completed, the appropriate staff can be in place to start

serving residents of the capital region when it's opened?

Hon. S.

Brice: The expected completion date for that is this coming July '04, so it

really will be available very shortly for the residents of the member's riding.

In terms of the staffing for that facility, the Vancouver Island health

authority actually has a very good track record of attracting some pretty

dedicated and committed staff. Along with the new facility for medical school

training at the University of Victoria, it makes it really quite an attractive

offering for those considering coming to this area. I have every confidence that

when the facility opens in July 2004, it will be staffed appropriately to

maximize the advantage that it will provide.

J. Bray:

July — we're certainly looking forward to that. I'd like to thank the minister

for her advocacy in helping to get this project going and identifying it as a

priority for the region.

Another

area that the minister provided information on for me earlier in the afternoon

was around one of the identified strategies of getting outreach and getting

staff out into the community from the Vancouver Island health authority. My

understanding is that we actually have some additional staff on the ground now

as a result of some of the additional funding. I'm just wondering if the

minister can advise me how many new staff we've got doing outreach in the last

year, since January of 2003.

[1715]

Hon. S.

Brice: There are five new mental health workers through this year to this

great capital regional area. Their job actually mirrors just exactly what we're

trying to accomplish in mental health, which is a very holistic approach. They

will be mobile throughout Vic-

[ Page 9447 ]

toria. It will enable them to go wherever support is needed. Two of the new

support workers and two of the current case managers are dedicated to the

downtown core as part of a broader health initiative with the city of Victoria

and the city police. Their job is to identify both mental health and addiction

symptoms and to help develop individual treatment plans.

It may be

of interest to know that treatment plans really do cover the whole range —

things such as financial management; nutrition; personal effectiveness;

interpersonal skills; community integration; health and wellness; and support in

clinical planning, including medication and appointments, healthy choices,

lifestyle. There's employment, support for involvement and volunteering in the

community, personal care, household management, housing support, advocacy —

every single skill a person is going to need to be able to integrate well into

the broader community.

J. Bray:

That's good news for our community and downtown, and I think it's an effective

strategy in trying to bridge the access gap for our most vulnerable to actually

get into the system. As we've heard earlier on today, there are lots of services

in place in southern Vancouver Island for people with mental health or

addictions or a dual diagnosis. We are finding that the one gap is that those

who are on the street or at risk of being homeless have had the hardest time

accessing. Having five additional staff people trained to do outreach should

really make a profound difference for individuals who have had trouble in the

past accessing the services and getting into what is now becoming a very

comprehensive set of services.

My final

question that I'd like to canvass with this minister…. As members of this

House know, I've raised on several occasions the concept of a wet house, which

is a form of housing that acknowledges that someone with chronic alcoholism is

not going to be able to — or choose to — go into treatment now and

continually either loses their home or housing or is at risk of losing it

because of their alcoholism. Most facilities currently do not allow alcohol

consumption or those under the influence to actually live there, so alcohol

becomes an impediment. The concept of a wet house would actually recognize, for

this small core group of chronic alcoholics, that if we provide stable housing

for those individuals, it might be a platform that at some future point they

could move into accessing treatment through the Victoria Sobering and Assessment

Centre, Victoria Detox, the Youth Detox or others.

I'm

wondering — and I know the minister is relatively new to this portfolio —

whether or not she's had any proposals come forward yet through the Vancouver

Island health authority or is prepared to meet with me at future dates to

explore this concept further to see if there is an identified need in community

support. This might be an area we can move forward on.

That would

be my final question. In advance I'd like to thank her for her support for our

issues here in Victoria.

[1720]

Hon. S.

Brice: In talking to professionals who deal with addiction issues, a theme

is always that the widest range of options is needed to meet the clients where

they are. The concept of a wet shelter would, in a range of options, be

something that a health authority would want to give some consideration to.

There has

been some considerable discussion in the community, some of it sparked by the

member for Victoria–Beacon Hill, and there have been some discussions with the

Vancouver Island health authority and some of the community groups. It is not

known to me just how advanced those discussions are, but I know there is a lot

of interest in this particular option. No doubt, with the continued interest

from the member, it will find its way further up the discussion agenda of the

health authority.

Mayencourt: To begin with, I want to congratulate the minister on her new

appointment. We're all very proud. I happen to have a couple of constituents who

are especially proud — your son and his partner, who live in my riding. Many

people in Vancouver-Burrard now know of your good work in this area.

One of the

areas I would like to canvass the minister on is the area of addictions.

Specifically, what I'm interested in are the crystal meth issues. In my

neighbourhood for the last couple of years we've seen a real upsurge in the

number of street youth, in the number of people within the gay community and in

the number of people even in the straight community who are starting to use

crystal meth as a recreational drug. I understand that it's highly addictive,

and I also understand that prolonged use of this particular drug can lead to

some severe mental disorders.

I wonder if

the minister could tell me a little bit about what's being done to deal with

some of the treatment issues and even prevention issues around crystal

methamphetamine.

[1725]

Hon. S.

Brice: The methamphetamine issue — crystal meth — is a hugely important

issue for us to tackle. The member is absolutely correct. Not only are we in the

Health ministry concerned, but the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor

General, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Human Resources and the

Minister of Children and Family Development are all touched by this particular

issue.

What is

being done? There has been a survey of downtown south youth in your community to

get an idea of just exactly the extent of the use. It's physician-led. It's a

quantitative and qualitative survey to get as much information so that decisions

can be made on the facts. There's a survey of relevant care providers to

identify gaps not only in services but also in skill sets to see how we're going

to most effectively deal with the fallout from this. There's a literature review

of best practices with response to methamphetamine interventions, and this is

currently underway. There will be a final report compiling all committees'

research, find-

[ Page 9448 ]

ings and recommendations. There are partnerships developing with other health

authorities to exchange information on this, and this response, of course, has

got to even be cross-border with our neighbours to the south, who have

experience with this drug as well. I even heard on the media today individuals

from the United States up here who have had communities with considerable

experience with this drug.

There's an

application to UBC to research long-term treatment methods for methamphetamine,

and there's an application to the Canadian Institute for Health Research to

research psychosis and methamphetamine, because the psychosis aspect of this

drug makes it particularly dangerous. I had an opportunity about two weeks ago

to attend a showing of a film that had been filmed by street youth who were

users. It was a film to just show exactly the extent to which their lives are

impacted and, indeed, being ruined because of this drug.

There's an

application to the National Crime Prevention Centre for public awareness and

harm reduction campaigns for youth and families, because even though we feel

that everybody knows about this drug, in reality there is not widespread

knowledge about just exactly what this drug is and how dangerous it is. I hear

stories about this drug actually being given to youth to get them hooked, and

then of course they can, you know, carry on. It's relatively inexpensive, even

though it has these hideous side effects and total devastation for their lives.

The partners in this are the Vancouver coastal health authority, the city of

Vancouver, the mayors coalition, agencies and, obviously, a number of ministries

from the province.

The next

step, and this will be of particular interest to your community, is to release a

vision document for citywide consultation. I would expect that would be

something that would be coming out in the very near future, and I have no doubt

that the member will find himself interested and involved in those

consultations.

Mayencourt: I'm glad there's an understanding that it's affecting education,

that it's affecting the justice s