VOL. 3 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. MONDAY, MARCH 20, 1978 NO. 10

l<Iarch 20 , 1978 Tape No . 291 The House met at 3:00 P. H. }lr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! STATEHENTS BY MINISTERS : HR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREIUER HOORES: l1r. Speaker, less than two weeks ago :m- 1 it was my great pleasure to stand in this House and pay tribute to the Reverend Brother HcHugh on his election to the highest position in the world of the Irish Christian Brothers. Today, Sir, it is equally my great pleasure to stand here to pay tribute to Reverend Brother G.R.

Bellows on his appointment to the high position of Provincial Superior of the Christian Brothers Congregation of Canada. Brother Bellows, who is fifty-three years of age, is truly one of Newfoundland's great educators. Brother Bellows was the founding Principal of St. Michael's High School in Grand Falls and of Brother Rice High School in St. John's. He was Superintendent of the Roman Catholic School Board for St. John's from 1972 to 1975. He has been actively involved in the Newfoundland Teachers' Association.

Brother Bellows has contributed immeasurably to the enrichment of our Province. and I know I speak for all members of the House in extending to Brother Bellows our best wishes for every success in this new and challenging position. Mr. Speaker, I remember last week when I made the other announcement, the Leader of the - not announcement but the resolution of tribute, that the Leader of the Opposition at that time remarked it was amazing the number of people who rise to high offices in the various religious orders and institutions, who in fact come from this Province.

I think this is just further evidence of that particular statement and I think, Sir, I would like to move that this House go on record as congratulating Brother Bellows in this prominent new position he has. SOME HON . }lEHBERS: Hear, hear ! 801.

Harch 20, 1978 Tape :.lo. 291 NM- 2 MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. W.N. ROWE: The bon. the Premier, Sir, has covered very well what needs to be said in this House about Reverend Brother Bellows and his rising to high office, and I repeat again,as the Premier has done, the staement I mad~ a couple of weeks ago in which I said it is simply incredible, it boggles the mind, Mr.

Speaker, the number of people from this small Province of less than 600,000 people, who have been able to produce leaders in the field of theology and education, and usually a combination of both, because of our unique system of education in this Province; the number of people who have risen to high and prominent position not only within our Province, but in Canada, in the United States, in England, the world at large, and Sir, we have every reason,as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, to be proud of people like Reverend Brother Bellows for the contribution they are making and for the credit and sense of pride which they bring to bear on our own native Province.

So I do not know what the procedure is for Your Honour when a mention is made of ll!atters such as this naturally it is entered into the record of the House, and forms part of Hansard -but in cases such as this, Sir, I would recommend that somebody, either the Government House Leader or Your Honour yourself, send along a message of the House's best wishes and congratulations and everything else that might be appropriate with regard to it.

Sir, I have no hesitation at all, in fact it is with a feeling of pride that I, on behalf of members on this side of the House, join with the Premier in seconding the motion of tribute to the Reverend Brother Bellows on his achievement. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, on the same page of The Daily News where the Premier picked up the piece of information on 802

Harc..'l ZO, 1978 Tape No. Z91 NH - 3 L1R. NEARY: Brother Bellows was another significant item involving an outstanding Newfoundlander in the person of Ray Sim•ms,who has just won a national award for his articles on outdoor life in Canada, a national award, Mr. Speaker. I believe the title of the

article that appears wee~y by Mr. Simmons, I believe it is called Knapsack. I am not absolutely sure of that now. But, Sir, I believe that we would be remiss in our duties and our responsibilities in this House if we did not extend our congratulations to Mr. Simmons0 Especially in this day and age when the media, the press are coming in for so much criticism, here we have a gentleman who has been associated with the news media for a good l!lallY years, I believe Hr. Sillllllons was one time, I am not quite sure, I believe he was associated with the Gerald S. Doyle news bulletin. And I - HR.

DOODY: the street from ma. HR. NEARY: MR. DOODY: HR. NEARY: He was born on Allen Square, right across He was born on Allen Square just - Directly across the street. And both gentlemen who lived on that particular street have done well, including the hon. minister. But I do want to offer congratulations to Mr. Simmons on winning this national award, Sir, for his

article on outdoor life and I would hope that the hon. the Premier would move a motion so that I can second it, or I will move a motion and the hon. the Premier can second it. But I believe it would be very worthwhile, Sir, for this House to send out a message of congratulations to this very fine and outstanding Newfoundlander, SOME RON. MEMBERS: !lear, hear! 803 • I

March 20, 1978 Tape 292 PK - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier: PREMIER MOORES: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to move the motion or second it~ but I will move it I guess on behalf of the House to Ray Simmons. He is ·a person I have known for many, many years, a man who has always been interested in the outdoors and the conservation of the outdoors. He is a man who has made a contribution not only by his ability to be able to talk about the subject, but he has always written about it in a manner of those who have a similar interest,! think,have always found interesting and educational.

He is a person who I think Newfoundland can be very proud of in many ways. He has been involved in various organizations, Rod and Gun Clubs and such organizations. He has made a big contribution to various regulations regarding wildlife, and hopefully will do more so in the future. As a natter of fact ,r was talking to him just a few weeks az;o and he asked me if we could get together and have his i~-~t once again into the things that concern liim and other conservationists in the Province.

And it is with great pride that I particularly at this time would like to congratuate him on winning a national award which was certainly well deserved. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for St. John's North. MR. J. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of some concerned citizens, and the petition reads,"We the undersigned humbly petition the House of Assembly to define filbustering and then take steps to prevent it.'' AN RON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. J. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, I am not the least of the concerned citizens.

The House situation as it is developing this year - AN RON. MEMBER: How many signed it? MR. J .CARTER: Not that many. One person is enough to sign a petition. AN RON. MEMBER: (Inau.dible) • MR. J. CARTER: There are five signatures on this petitfon .1enough to - 804

March 20, 1978 292 PK - 2 SOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. J. CARTER: Mr. Speaker, the House situation is extremely serious. At the moment the Throne Speech is finished. It cannot be called again. If it is called again the han. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) will get up and speak ad infinitum,or ad nauseam one might add. So the Throne Speech cannot be called. I suggest that after today the Bud ~ et Speech will be ended because all it will take is some one to pass a motion or an amendment to the Budget Speech and then that entitles him to speak endlessly, and Your Honour is powerless to prevent it.

So the Budget Speech will end today, the Throne Speech ended on Friday, all we have left are the few l~~tle bits of estimates, We will certainly be out of here by June, that. there is no question about hoped - MR. NEARY: So the debate has come to a complete halt. ... go back into his savoury patch: I had MR. J. CARTER: I had hoped,Mr. Speaker, when the han. Leader of the Opposition choose the present House Leader that he had him next to him so that he would be able to control him, but obviously the House Leader is controlling the Leader of the Opposition. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. J.

CARTER: I think it is a very sad situation. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! AN HON. MEMBERS: Is this in order, Mr. Speaker? MR. J. CARTER: It certainly is in order. So, Mr. Speaker, we are at a crossroads in this House of Assembly, and I do not know what procedure to suggest, wiser heads than mine will have to come up with that, but something certainly needs to be done and I would invite other members to SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. J. CARTER: Listen to the trained seals, Mr. Speaker. It is disgusting. It is just disgusting what a person has to put up with. 805 t

~!arch 20, 1978 Tape 292 PK - 3 0 0 0 Hi . Sl>EAKEJl: 'l'he !Jon. '!llembet" for Ten a Nova. MR . T. LUSH: I would like to p~:esent a MR. SPEAKER: Do we have leave to ~:evert t·o petitions? SOME BON . MEI-!BERS: Agreed! MR . SPEAKER: Agreed! MR. T. LUSI:l': Mt". Speaker, I 'beg leave to present a . petiton on behalf of 200 indust~:ious and enterprising souls of the community of Cannings Cove, - SO~!E HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ~ . T.

LUSR: - a community in my district, 200 souls who have undergone the intolerable suffering and inconvenience which invariably accompanies a ~:oad that is poorly constructed, and it is poorly maintained . So, Hr. Speaker, I w-ill read the petition first, the prayer of the petition is as follows, '' To the hon. !louse of Assembly: The petition of we, the undersigned, being residents of Cannings Cove in the district of Terra Nova in the Province of 806

Narch 20,197b 1ape !-io. 293 AH-1 HR. LL.;a: :~ e\ lfoundland and Labrador humbly request that the Department of Transportation and Communications take immediate action to pave the road from Musgravetown leading to and through Cannings Cove. For many years we have suffered from the terrible inconveniences of a poorly constructed and an inadequately maintained road leading to this community. After several requests, representations and petitions to tne government,two years ago our road was reconstructed in readiness for paving. The reconstructed

section of the road has already begun to deteriorate and a small

section needing further construction is in a deplorable condition. If the road is not immediately paved,money spent on the reconstruction ~~o years ago would have been wasted. This road receives extensive use by our residents; students use this road daily to commute back and forth to school in husgravetown and the adult

section of our pop~ation use the road continuously in commuting to and from work. To save dollars already invested and to provide us and our children with a good, safe road we petition the government to pave this road in this fiscal year and your petitioners as in duty bound will ever pray." Mr. Speaker, there is very little that I can say in support of the petition that has not already been said in the petition itself. One thing I can say about the residents of Cannings Cove is that they are a very patient people. I expect that there have been more petitions presented for the paving and upgrading of this road than any other

section of road in the Province. And I would expect that the Minister of Tourism,who at one time represented ::hat part of my district, I would expect that he has presented petitions for t his road. I am not sure,but I would venture to say that he has certainly presented petitions on behalf of the people of Cannings Cove. Sir,we are not talking about a lot of mileage. As it says in the petition, this is an extension of a road leading North from the Cabot Highway an through Bloomfield to Musgravetown,and that is where the paving ends presently. So from t·1usgravetown to Cannings Cove we are talking aoout a couple of miles, Indeed, to go right through the 807 • '

)!arcil 2.\.l ,197 b Tape .. a. 293 AH-2 NR. LUSH: community - tne road is in a circle- to go right throu gh the communitv,around it, would not take more than four miles, would not be more than a distance of four miles. So we are not talking about a lot of paving ; what we are talking about is a great inconvenience to the people there who for years had to use this gravel road that is in a deplorable condition.

The town of Cannings Cove is a very interprising town0 Fishing goes on there, lo~ging goes on,but outside of these two industries the people 11ave to commute to other areas in the Province to work, going to Clarenvil~e,to other areas in the Province to work, going to Clarenville and other points west in the Terra Nova j ational Pa rk •. So the people use the road consistently and in addition to the adults,as referred to in the petition students use the road daily.

And I can assure tnat I would not want my children to be one of the students that have to use this terrible road daily to commute back and forth to school. So , Mr . Speaker, I wholeheartedly support t i1is petition and ask for it to be put upon the table of the douse and refer it to the department to whicn it relates. MR. SPEAKER: aR . RID!:.Ol.iT: non. member for Baie Verte - White oay.

Hr. ::ipeaker, I must make a few brief words to support the prayer of the petition so ably presented by my colleague for Terre ~ova • In supporting the petition,let me say I believe it is a sort of a sad state of affairs when we can see probably X number of millions of dollars,and certainly hundreds of thousands of dollars,spent on the upgrading and reconstruction of a road and then it is left so long that that money actually becomes useless and if we are ever going to get to pave it it would have to be redone again.

I believe that is one of t he theme s in the prayer of the petition, Sir; the petitioners are asking for us to ~ake an effort to insure that the money spent on the reconstruction of that particular road from Cannings Cove more than two years ago is simply not wasted because it has been so long now since the reconstruction has been done ti1en tnat is certainl y a fear. 808 . r

,arch 20,1978 Ta pe :•o . Also, Sir, I think th~ petition is a monument sort of to the tenacity of those people who have been petitioning. I can remember I believe a petition or two coming in from those people in th~ couple of short years that I have been in the House of Assembly. So, Sir, I wholeneartedly su~port the prayer of ' the petition, I do hope that the Minister of Transportation and e'ollllllWlications will give it the careful consideration that it deserves and that ne will be able to find the few hundred thousand dollats to finish off that road this year before the money that has already oeen spent on it becoJneS useless and goes down the drain in the process. 809 r . !

Harch 20, 1978 Tape 294 EC - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The han. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I want to support the prayer of the petition presented by my colleague on behalf of his constituents from Musgravetown to Canning's Cove. , They want their road upgraded so it can be paved in this fiscal year, and I think, Mr. Speaker, that is a reasonable request. That is once instance, Sir, ~•here the adninistration cannot point the finger at Ottawa and say it is Ottawa's fault.

The road comes under the jurisdiction of the Province and,as my han. friend who just took his seat indicated, some work has been done on the road and unless a move is made to salvage what has already been done then it is just money down the drain. }~r. Speaker, we are finding ex~mple after example of th~s across the Province. This weekend I went out over the Trans-canada Highway, drove from Stephenville down to Port aux Basques,and I must say that part of the Trans-Canada Highway is in a deplorable condition.

You would swear in parts of it you were riding a bucking bronc, and yet the Minister of Transportation and Communications sits there and does nothing about it, allows the heavy equipment to still go over the road - no such thing as a half load limit or a quarter load limit, just tear her up~ And the administration has the gall then to point the finger at Ottawa and say, 'You will not give us a better deal, 90/10 or 75/25, you will only give us 50/50 1 ' when that road comes under the jurisdiction of the Province, the Province has to see to it that it is maintained and kept in good condition, and they allow the heavy equipment to come in and tear the roadbed to pieces, tear it to shreds.

AN HON. MEMBER: They are tearing up the pavement, too. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I do not care what they take. ~!R. SPEAKR : Order, please! I should point out that proceedings are now developing into debate on government transportation policy in general, federal/orovincial relations )with respect thereto. 8i.O I ' I

11arch 20, 19 78 Tape 294 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member. HR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the point I want to make in connection with the prayer of the petition, Sir, is that there is all kinds of heavy equipment going over that piece of road as well as other roads in the Province. And now Spring is coming on and the roadbed is getting soft and muddy and the Minister of Highways does nothing about it, just allows the tractor trailers and the transport trucks and the big buses to go over it as if it were just a normal time in the year when in actual fact it is not, Sir.

Something has to be done, otherwise there '~ ill not be a road left in tha Province. l!r. Speaker, I su'l)oort the praver of the oetition and I hooe that the minister ,.Till take steps to try to protect the investment that has already been made on this road bet,~een ll<usgravetown and Canning's Cove. SOliE HON. ~!r.IBERS: Hear, hear! PRESENTINC FEPORTS EY ST.Mmnm AND SPECIAL COl-l}llTifF.S J.lR. SPEAKER: The hon. :1-!inister of ~!anpower and Labour. HR • . ROUSSEAU: :1-!x.

Speaker, the report of the Department of ~power and Labour for transactions under the Labour Relations Act, the Public Service Collective Bargaining Act, t~e Newfoundland Teachers Collective Bargaining Act, the Fishing Industry Collective Bargaining Act,and the report of the Newfoundland Labour Relations Board,and the Minimum Wage Board report for 1977. NOTICF.S OF MOTION !·1R. SPEAKE)l.: The hon. ~~inister of Finance. MR. HICKMA .. ~: Hr. Speaker, I give notice that I ,.nll on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The District Court Act, 1976." AN HON • MEI"BER: MR. SPEAKER: !-'R. H.

N • ROVIE : Rear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS The hon. Leader of the Opposition. ~~ at is going on here, a takeover bid? I need my paranoia pills, '!r. Speaker. 811.

varch 20, 197$3 Tape 2')4 F.C - 3 ~!R • \L ~ • RO\.l'E : Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the bon. the Premier, in view of the fact that the ~~ster of Social Services is reported as saying that he would resign if no hospital construction took plac e in Clarenville by the Sprin~ of 1978, would the Premier indicate to the House whether the Premier has yet received the minister's resignation from his adoinistration? SO~·IE 'HON • HflffiERS: Hear, hear! MR • SPEAKER: The bon. the Premier. PRE'!IER Y.OORES : '!o, '!r. Speaker, and 1 do not expect to. !·rR • !L ~ • !l.OWE : A supplementary, l·fr. Speaker. ~fR .

SPEAKER: A supplem entary . MF . H. N' . ROt~: In view of the fact that ten days or more went by b etl~een the time chat the member for Grand Falls (~tr . Lundrigan) submitted his resignation to the Premier and the time that the Premier got up the gumption to finally announce i t in the Rouse of Assembly, 'itould he indicate to the P.ouse whether he is carrying around in his pockec any ocher resignations of oinisters from his administration? AN RON • HDtBER: Hear, hear! 812

tla r ci1 r, .... C..tl, 1978 TarJe 2'?5 !"'II .J '· - M~. SPEAKER: Han. Premier. PREll! ER t400R E S: No, Mr. Speaker, I do not have any such letter at the present time. MY colleague from Social Assistance has not been to the ice. am sure if that .beino. the case I \•/auld have knovm before now if in fact I ~ad a letter. cannot understand with all of the so-called problems in this Province - I find it incredible that the Leader of the Opposition has to resort to this sort of lead-off question first thing in the House. SO~E HON. NE~BERS: f!ere ! Here! f~ R . ~10 L ll.'l : 1'r. Soeaker, a supplementarv. f•iR.

SPE/.\K!:?.: ~hich han. member rose on a supplementary~ Som~ooay said suoplem~ntary. Han. member for Conce?tion Bay South. t·!R. NOLAN: I am rising merely to address the question, Mr. Speaker, to the han. Minister for Social Services.~lnce the~e was a public news item on this matter today, perhaps he \·iould likr to denv it, that he is or is rot going to resign over this hospital situation. Whether it is guilt or not guilt. rlR. SPEAKER: Han. minister. ·~~. BRETT: 11 r . S p e a k e r , I do not k no~~ i f t !1 at was a question or not but I certainly welcome the opport~nity to clear the air on that statement.

That statement was never made by me in public, private or otherwise. AN HON. t1Et1BER: Here! Here! t·1R. 3R ETT: Mr. Speaker, a statement was made by me two years ago in Clarenville in connection with being a candidate but it had nothing to do with the Cabinet because was not in the Cabinet at that time. :·1 R • S P E fl. K E R : !!on. me.~ber for LaPoile. 813 . f ' ~

'larch 20, 1973 Tape 295 !:'1 - 2 i•1R. NEARY: I would like to direct a question, Sir, to the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations. In view of the fact that a review of the ~ark- men's Compensation Board was undertak2~ almost two years ~go, and in view of the fact that the report of the co~mittee has been in the hands of the minister no~ for almost a yea~ and in view of the fact that the people in nuchans, in Labrador City, and in 8aie Verte and esaeciallv in St.

Lavrrence are very concerned about the occunational health hazards in their industry, and in vie~r of the fact thnt es- recially the reoale in St. Lawrence, the ~ine is closed, ~auld the ~inister indicate. what time this re~ort, this review of the Workmen's Compensation Board as it relates to these four industries that I mentioned; what time that report is going to see the light of day? 111 n i s t e r of :I a n p 01·1 e r an d I n d u s t - r i a l ~e 1 at i on s . .. .., I ' ~ • :<.o t:ssE.n.u: F i r s t of a 11 , t' r . S rea k e r , i t i s not correct that it has been two years.

It is not correct that the minister or the government has had it for one year, that is incorrect. Government has ha:i it since the s .:mr,ler I think June, July or August, I forget which date. The ~roble m was a very s i!ilpl e one, ~lr.

S[leaker, tl1a t I hooe han. ~embers can understand.; The Cha i rr.1an of ';he i\Jorkmen 's Compensation Board to whom I : ~eferred the repo~t to qet his ino~t into it,because as you know the Workmen1 s Compensation Board is not a division of the department but it is responsible to the House of Assembly through the Minister of Labour and Man­ power who is not an expert on \~o,.km- en;s compensation>that the ~entleman had a heart attack which the han. member I am sure is a•. ·are of. ;·;-> .• ~ J E AR Y : ~o. I am not aware of it. ----- 814

~:arch 20, 1~78 1·1 R • R 0 US S E AU : J. May had a heart attack. ~l R • IL N • R 0 \•I E : :·1R. ~DUSSEAU : should have known it. SOtH HON. r:E:!BERS: :-!R • :; P E A K E R : Tape 295 Oc·l - 3 And unfortun'l.tely, ~lr. \/illiam We did not know that. Hell, I am telling you,everybody Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. gentleman, I believe, is having difficulty answering. fiR. ROUSSE.~U: The Chairman of the Workmen's Compensation 8oard, tlr.

Speaker, •,.tho has to be my advisor on ite~s referred to the Workmen's Compensation Board did unfortu~ately have a heart attack.rn my compassion I thought it i 11 - advised , and on doctor's orders, to talk about the report of !he ~orkm~n's Compensation Board until the gentleman was in sufficient capicity . healthwisf' to talk about it .. As soon as the gentleman ~1as back on his feet and back in the office we did so and that has been the cause of the delay.

We tried to arrange one short meeting but we thought it would be better not to and unfortunately the lapse of the three, four or five months in the middle of the~e was - because of that -~ituation. The reoort has heen forwarded to an~ is being looked at by government and I would hope that in the very near future, I would hope within two to three wee ks we would nave some indication ot just wnat government 1nteous Lu LO with that review. 815 '· !1 r. . ~

March 20, 1978, Tape 296, Pag e 1 -- apb MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to say, Sir, I was not aware that the Chairman of the Workmen's Compensation board had a heart attack. I knew the hon. gentleman was ill at one time but I did not know what was wrong with 1·1r. ~fay and I am sorry to hear Mr. May had a heart attack, but, Sir, government must go on. Mr. Speaker, is the hon. gentleman aware that these people in St. Lawrence, these workers in St.

Lawrence, Baie Verte, Buchans, Labrador City,in the pelletizing plant, are uneasy, they have an uneasy feeling , they are in deadly fear that their lives are being endangered and they are depending on this report probably to do something about their compensation in the event that their lives are in danger to look after their widows and their children, especially the people in St. Lawrence? Does the minister intend to table the report in the House? If not,why · not? Can we have a copy of the report? Why is it being hidden away? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR.

ROUSSEAU: The hon. minister, Mr. Speaker, has been in this House for five or six years and very seldom - no, one Wednesday afternoon the hon. minister lost his cool in this House.and ~ ook, Mr. Speaker, for anybody in this House to suggest that this han. minister is not concerned about occupational health and safety is pure political partisanship. I happen to represent one of the districts that are very concerned with occupational safety and I would hope that the hon. member did not mean what I inferred in his question. I am very concerned with it and so i s government. 816

March 20, 1978, Tape 296, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROUSSEAU: The question that is being asked is this, When are we going to table it? Yes, as soon as government makes a decision. It has been policy in the past and it is still policy of government that when something is considered by government, that until it is considered and a decision has been made the report is kept confidential. I think it is common courtesy that Cabinet colleagues see it before it is released.

As soon as a decision is made,within two or three weeks as I say, I ~1ill most welcomelv table the report of the Workmen's Compensation Board and give an indication of just where government intends to go on it. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the hon. gentleman for a supplementary I would point out to hon. gentlemen on both sides of the House the general rules with respect to the Question Period.

The one I am specifically referring to is Standing Order 3l(c) "In putting any oral questions, no argument or opinion is to be offered nor any facts stated except so far as may be necessary to explain the same - the same being the question - and in answering any such question the Minister is not to debate the matter to which it refers." Beauchesne pages 147 to 149 gives a quite definitive and clear-cut guide with respect to questions,which has been the practice of this House, and a few pages after has some words to say about answers.

On questions it says; "Observations which might lead to debate cannot be regarded as coming within the proper limits of a question." On answers it says among other things - page 153 - "Questions must be answered briefly and distinctly,and be limited to the necessary explanations, etc." So I would point out to hon. members 817 ' r. "

March 20, 1978, Tape 296, Page 3 -- apb MR. SPEAKER: the rules with respect to ouestions which are quite clear in the Standing Orders and quite clear in the precedents. The hon. member for LaPoile had a supplementary, I believe. MR. NEARY: Thank you; Your Honour. MR. RIDEOUT: Sit down 'Joe'. MR. NEARY: Well, I am going to give the hon. gentleman a chance to get up because I am going to ask a supplementary. MR. ROUSSEAU: Okay, but I would like to apologize, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry. AN HON. MEMBER: For what? MR. SPEAKER: I was making a general ruling for hon. members on both sides. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I can understand the hon. gentleman being uptight, Sir, and the hon. Minister of Justice should be uptight also because St. Lawrence happens to be in the han. gentleman's district. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Shame! Shame! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman should be riding herd on the Minister of Labour and Manpower to get the recommendations of this report implemented. I want to ask the minister if the recommendations of this report, and I forget the name of it now, I think it was an accountant who headed it up. I know the - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Harnett. MR. NEARY: What is his name? SOME HON.

MEMBER£ : Harnett. From Corner Brook. MR. NEARY: Harnett from Corner Brook headed up the review, the Committee of Review. Now would the minister indicate if the recommendations of the Harnett Report on the review of the Workmen's Compensation 818 ' I '

March 20, 1978, Tape 296, Page 4 -- apb MR. NEARY: will be made retroactive from the date the report was submitted to the Government? MR. SPEAXER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. ROUSSEAU: The hon. member knows quite well I just said a few monutes ago it is being considered by government. I cannot as an individual minister make any suggestions as to what recommendations will be accepted or not. As soon as it is considered by government, which I hope will be in two or three weeks, that we will have - MR. NEARY: Why have you not tabled it? MR.

ROUSSEAU: It will be tabled as soon as my colleagues in Cabinet, and the han. member was in Cabinet and understands that out of courtesy to your Cabinet colleagues it is nice for them to see it first because they have to make the decision, as soon as that decision is made, within two or three weeks, the report and whatever recommendations are going to be followed will be tabled and a statement will be made on what recommendations will be followed. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary then the han. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, did I understand the minister correctly? I must have misunderstood the minister in his first answer, but did I understand the minister correctly that the 819

March 20, 1978 Tape i~o. 297 NJ.1 - 1 MR. NEARY: report has been passed on to the Chairman of the Workmen's Compensation Board without being discussed in Cabinet, without being examined by the minister's Cabinet colleagues, did I understand the minister to say that1 That is most irregular and most improper is it not, not to allow the min~ster's colleagues to see the report1 HR.

ROUSSEAU: The minister's colleagues has the report. lfhat the minister went to the Chairman of the Workmen's Compensation Board for was to get the Chairman's recommendations and advice as to what the implications were of the recommednations in the report. That is what the minister is going to discuss with his colleagues in Cabinet. ~IR. MORGA.~: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Hr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: I had indicated that I would recognize another hen. gentleman after and that will be the hen. member for Windsor - Buchans, followed by the hen. member for Baie Verte -White Bay. }!R. FLIGHT: Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Forestry. Recently the Crown Lands Division of the Department of Forestry served notice 1 on the general~ublic,I suppose, that any persons who have taken possession of Crown land since 1957 and have not indicated they have taken possession, or have not applied, are subject to prosecution by March 31st., 1978. Now, Hr.

Speaker, I want to ask the minister, is this an indication that people in this Province who have taken possession of Crown land since 1957 have ignored the department's announcements of last January and are- not as lax in making applications, or are not making applications, is that what warranted the threat of prosecution? I would like to hear the minister. HR. SPEAKER: The hon. Hinister of For~try and Agriculture. 820 t ;.

Harch 20, 1978 Tape No. 297 :-IN - 2 MR. HAYNARD: Yes, ~!r. Speaker, since the announcement was made the act was changed in 1976 and the announcement '~as made several times regarding the new provisions under.the act. There have been a number of people who are still ignoring the law and that is the reason for the announcement recently in the papers. NR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. ~JR. FLIGHT: ~!r.

Speaker, my understanding is that when an application goes to Crown Lands and it is approved under the new regulations that the applicant can get a lease for $25 a year for the life of the lease, but this advertisement here sort of indicates that it is now costing $25 in order to make an application to Crown Lands. \~ould the minister confirm or deny that? Because the advertisement says, "Upon acceptance of your application and a fee of $25," so the indication that the general public would get is that it costs $25 now to apply for a piece of land. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Hinister of Forestry and Agriculture. ~JR.

MAYNARD: No,it does not cost $25 to apply for the land. The $25 is in relation to a permit to occupy until such time as the regular application can be processed. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. FLIGHT: Well, Sir, would the minister indicate that in the event of an application being reject~d, is that $25 refundable to the applicant? ~lR. MAYNARD: No. }JR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the original questioner. }JR. FLIG'JT: The final supplementary, Hr. Speaker, would be two

part in a sense, that the previous Minister of Forestry brought into this House an amendment to legislation covering the Crown Land Act and indicated when he presented the petition that this would reduce the waiting time to have a Crown land application processed down to sixteen months. It was around twenty-four when he brought in the legislation. Would the minister indicate to the House how 821

~larch 20, 1978 Tape No. 297 l-ll.1 - 3 MR.. FLIGHT: long it takes to have an application for a piece of Crown land dealt with, processed and either accepted or rejected? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Forestry and Agriculture. NR. HAYNARD: It is pretty hard to put an exact time on it, Hr. Speaker, but the average is approximately six months. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! HR. U!I.YNARD: There may be some applications obviously that are longer than that because of various complications, but the average is approximately six months. HR. NEARY: Two years. &~ HON. MEMBER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: I had indicated that I would recognize another hon. gentleman. It does not preclude hon. members from coming back to this subject at a later date. I think I had indicated I would recognize the hon. meQber for Baie Verte - White Bay. }!R, RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Labour and Manpower,and again it is related to the review of the Workmen's Compensation Board Act.

In view of the fact that this report now has been - or the review has been ongoing for certainly more than a year to be reasonable, it has been ongoing for more than a year; due to the fact that the act provides that we must review the Workmen's Compensation Board every five years,and in view of the fact that I have been told that there are certain recommendations in the report that will necessitate legislation, could the minister tell the House whether or not we can expect to have that legislation brought before the House this session7 Because if not the five years is going to be up and we have not dealt with the report. ' . ~ AN RON.

MEMBER: Hear, hear! A good man. 822 ,. ~ 'f

March 20, 1978 Tape 298 PK - 1 MR. • • SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. ROUSSEAU: Mr. Speaker, it certainly be my hope to do so. I know the hen. member shares my concern with occupational health and safety. Every effort will be made to; while I cannot say how much drafting that the Department of Justice has,we will certainly push them on it. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. member for Bellevue, followed by the bon. members for Stephenville and Conception Bay South. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Tourism.

Would the Minister of Tourism explain why no instruction •~as given before the Hunter Capability Testing Programme was started? MR. SPEAKER: The hen. Minister of Tourism. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the hen. gentleman's question when he says there is no instruction. The fact is the programme is progressing quite favourably around the Province whereby to date we have tested and passed 12,000 hunters. We are experiencing a problem in the St. John's area primarily because of two reasons; one, Mr. Speaker, because of the fact that· there is only one satisfactory shooting range we can use in the St.

John's area,unfortunately. But regards to instructions - MR. CALLAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: -with regards to instructions. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I have to hear the point of order. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, the question that I asked was straightforward and simple, I did not ask anything about the testing that is going on, I asked why was there no instruction given before the testing; students take tests after they are instructed, drivers take tests after they have received instruction. MR.

SPEAKER: I would not at this point rule the minister's answer out of order, I have not heard enough of it. MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker, if the hen. ~entleman wants information he should give the speaker who he asked the question a chance to answer his question. And the fact is that the hunter capability test is a beginning of a Hunter's Safety Training Programme, and we will be getting involved as a gov ernment, this government,getting 823 . j• . ,. '

March 20, 1978 Tape 298 PK - 2 Mr. Morgan: involved in a Hunters Safety Training Programme in the next number of years. But this year the hunter capability test is the first phase of the Hunters Safety Training Programme, and we are hoping to have all of these tests,in regards to instructions~all the people who are respective hunters know what to do in regards to instruction as to what to do, and pass their tests. In regards to instructions, in regards to safety training, that will come as a second phase of the Hunters Safety Training Programme. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. CALLAN: A supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: A supplementary. MR. CALLAN: Mr. Speaker, for the Minister of Tourism. You know, in view of the fact that no instruction has been given before the testing started,will there be instruction given for those who have failed the Hunters Safety? And also why are these people who failed the present test not permitted to apply for big game licences this year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Tourism. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, if the hon. gentleman would listen to the programmes and statements made by the Department of Tourism, Wildlife Division which is carried over the Province, it has been announced as the policy of the Department of Wildlife that any hunter or prespective hunter who has failed the test will be given instructions and will be given a second chance to pass that test before the commencing of the hunting season this year. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

SPEAKER: I have indicated that I will recognize the hen. member for Stephenville next,followed by Conception Bay South, and Carbonear, and Terra Nova if time permitting; MR. MCNEIL: Mr. Speaker, in the absence of the Premier I will ask my question to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. Could the minister explain the statement in the Advisory Board's final report of July 27, 1977, which stated the conversion 9f the existing 824

March 20, 1978 Tape 298 PK - 3 MR. MCNEIL: facilities of the Labrador Linerboard to newsprint production cannot be recommended, and in the Budget of Friday the government stated that the brighest prospect was for a one machine newsprint operation? Which report is a hoax, the Advisory Board's final report or the Budget statement? SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. MR. DOODY: Mr.

Speaker, I really suppose I should not acceo t the quest:im because the inference is that one of the t~~o reports is a hoax, so I subject myself to Your Honour's guidance on this in saying that somebody over across the way has now decided that both are hoaxes. I would think that that would be most unfortunate for the people of the Bay St. George area, and I sincerely hope that that is not so. The advice that government receives is the best advice that I could get. The best advice that I can get was obviously sought for on behalf of the people of the area directly concerned.

In this particular case,we have received the report of the ~dvisory Group,who said that it seemed unlikely- and the hon. gentleman had the advantage of quoting directly from the report which he had on the desk -3ubsequently in the interest of the Province and in the interest of the people concerned government went to a great deal more effort, more expense, they did not accept that on its face value.

We were not,as one would infer from the hon. member,hoaxed or misled, we pressed on, we got together more talent, more ability, and we have come up what appears to be some viable alternatives to the problem out in Stephenville. Hopefully 825

t;arcil 20,19 7 8 Tape I:;o. 299 Au-1 :1R. JJlJOD :{ : we can bring it to a successful head. I do not tnink that will happen if we get down to the kind of partisan political statement that the han. member just made suggesting that both statements - SOMJ:: HON • t!EHBERS: Oh, oh: HR. DOODY: Your Honour. it was not I who suggested that both statements were hoaxes, the statement was made by the han. member representing those people out there who are very, very anxious to get back to work and toward that effort we are doing everything we possibly can.

The major part of that progracme is to get various feasibility studies and various programmes and various reports in place which can make it possible for us to get that mill working again. I do not think that either of these groups are trying to perpetrate a hoax.! sincerely hope they have not and I would honestly and honourably ask everybody in tni~ aon. tious~ to work with us in trying to get that mill back in place and get tae people working. Sm1E HON • tiEHtlERS: Hear, hear: MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. hR. McNEIL: Mr.

Speaker, in the light of the statement made in the Budget maybe the han. minister will indicate who or what company is interested in converting the Stephenville mill into a one macnine newsprint operation • and when uoes the han. minister expect construction to start? This is want we want to know. lJe 1.1ant to get our people back to work. ~IR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. NR. DOODY: I am actually delighted to hear that the hon. member does not consider that these things are hoaxes and that there is hope to-get people back to work.

This is indeed absolutely delightful news and we are delighted to know that everybody in this Province is concerned about th~ people who live in that part of Newfoundland. I am glad that the bon. member shares their concern._ The point of the matter is, Sir, that there J . are various companies involved and they are concerned and interested and 826

Harch 20,1978 Tape No. 299 AH-2 NR. DOODY: various proposals and various discussions have been held wita many companies. I have indicated to the han. members opposite, an previous questions, that we are not at this point in time at liberty to discuss or to reveal the names of the companies with whom we have had conversations. When I say 'we' I mean the Divestiture Committe~ who have been appointed by government to conduct this negotiations. The group consists of representatives of the community in that area - AN HON. MEMBER: (In;;udil.lle) ~JR.

IJOOUY: Ylell if the hen. member feels that the members representing the two unions and tha member representing the Harmon Corporation or the joint councils is just one person I have more respect for the two unions than that, Sir, I feel that there are at least three representatives in that area. The hon. member is a little oit upset perhaps because there was no political input into the divestiture effort. I am not at all upset about that, Sir, I feel that it is far more important, Sir, that we get that mill in operation than that we make political points in the area.

So I cannot, Sir, in this point in time reveal the names of the companies with whom we are having discussions. I can only assure that the Divestiture Effort Committee which is an nonpartisan ~roup not politically oriented have been carrying on conversations with honourablL, reasonable, reputable companies who we uope ~ill invest sufficient funds to get that industry back and supply the employment and the economic opportunities that that part of Newfoundland so desperately needs . SOHE liON. ME}1BERS: .tiear, hear! HR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. NR.

NcNEIL: Would the hon. minister indicate to tnis House what are the efforts of the Divestiture Committee besides receiving the reports from - or the couple of reports from the selling agents, Woods Gordon - what other things have they done besides just getting together for a briefing? NR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. 827

1-!arcb. 20,1978 Tape No. 299 AH-3 MR. DOODY: Well, Your Honour, there are very - I think wilat the han. member is really asking for is the number of visits that have been made to various respective clients, the description of the various sales approaches that have been made to these particular companies, the number of companies that have been approached, the numbers of people that have been talked to, what financial people have been brougnt into the discussions, what particular areas of product mix have been discussed and what the particular interests.

These are all done by this Divestiture Comuittee through the group and as I explained on various occasions prior to this the Divestiture Committee will call on all areas of expertise depending on that particular line of work, the particular product li~e, the particular product mix that a newsprint or a paper manufacturing company is concerned with.To give an absolute detailed accounting of every visit that tney made, the acc~unting of all the couversations that they had, the discussions of the kind of inveatment that would be necessary, the discussion of the marketplace for these various products would be a very long and involved chore indeedJ but all these thing, Sir, will be made available to this bon.

House hopefully when a successful divestiture is concluded. If we are unsuccessful and I sincerely hope we are not, then all this information will be made available anyway but it is certainly not in the best interests of that particular progranme at this time to get involved in that sort of detaiL 828

March 20, 1978 Tape No. 300 MR. NEARY: A final supplementary, the hon. member for Port au Port. MR. J. !lODDER: Would the minister tell me, when he talks about a conversion, does he mean that the plan is to convert to another product line or to install a capacity on ~he machine so that there will be two product lines? That would be in linerboard and bleached pulp. NR. SPEA.T<ER: The hon. Minister of Finance. HR. DOODY: My background always leads me to talk about total conversion but that may not necessarily be the most appropriate thing in this particular line.

Total conversion , of course 7 is a very, very delightful and a much sought after principle and it is prayed for regularly by many people of many creeds. What I am talking about in this particular instance is that particular product mix which will be most profitable, and most presentable and most acceptable to the economic dilemma that we are now facing in that part of Newfoundland. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: I will allow the gentleman one further supplementary then I will recognize the hon. member for Conception Bay South. HR.

HODDER: No, I would like the minister to tell me, does it mean that there will be two heads on that machine, that the machine will have the capacity to turn out linerboard and another product or is the minister saying that maybe, or is he saying that there will be two products or one? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. 1-fR.

DOODY: The hon. minister had told you quite clearly that the major factor in the reactivation of the linerboard operation, which probably will not be a linerboard operation but conceivably could be, but in the mill at Stephenville is one that is open to whatever sort of profitability arrangement that is available for that. It may 829

~larch 20, 1978 Tape No. 300 NH - 2 ~!R. DOODY: very well be a _ product mix, it may be a total conversion operation, it may be several different products~ it may be a single machineJ we do not know. We do know that there seems to be more interest at this point in time in a single machine operation for any product mix, but we are not, nor is the divestiture committee ruling out any possibility at this point in time because the ultimate object is to get that mill operating and to get the people out there back in operation with the mill. HR.

SPEAKER: The hon. member for Conception Bay South followed by the hon. member for Carbonear. 1-:B.. NOLAN: Mr. Speaker, with your permission I would like to continue to question the minister on the matter that we have been discussing, namely the Linerboard mill in Stephenville.

I wonder if the minister is in a position to tell us if it is the intention of government 7 supposing a company agrees tomorrow to purchase the mill and if there is- going to be a conversion, is it the intention of government to put money in to assist the compan~ whoever it is,in the conversion or what exactly is the plan insofar as the minister can tell us at the moment? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. MR. DOODY: The obvious objective of government is to have as little public investment in that operation as possible.

It would be our objective to entice private enterprise to invest whatever capital is necessary to get that operation back into place. That is the simplistic statement that does not necessary exclude government assistance. As soon as the hon. me.:Jber for LaPo ile is finished his private discussion~ I will continue. r!R. NEARY: I am sorry. MR. DOODY: That does not necessarily exclude various arrangements and various options that may take place between the Government of Canada, the Government of Newfoundland and prospective 830 ' ~ ,,-

~la rch 20, 1978 Tape • o-. 300 ~r.·l - 3 HR. DOODY: operators of the mill, or prospective converters of the mill, we are holdi .ng the options open. The optimum would be obviously, f·)r private enterprise to purchase the operacion out there and to invest the money that will make it possible to operate it again . There may be c0ncessions of one sort of another that. may be necessary to facilitate that optimum result. It is too early in the game to say what the y migh t be and we cert ainly do no t t~ ant to exclude any poss ibili ties . ORDERS OF THE DAY: HR. BIC'~ : ~ .

Speaker, I have a message from Kis Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor. NR. SPEAKER: The following message is directed to rhe hon. ~li.nisrer of Finance, "I, the Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Newfoundland, transmit estimates of sums required for the Public Service of the Province for t he year ending the 31st. ~la rch 1979 by way of Interim Suppl y and in accord ance with the provisions of the British North America Act of 1867 , as amended, I recolllll.end these estimates to the Bouse of Assembly. " Signed, "Gordon Winter, Lieu1:enant-Governor." ,._ I ~ 831. ~:.

}<arch 20, 1978 Tape 301 EC - 1 On motion that the House resolve itself into Co~ttee of Supply. Mr. Speaker left the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY RESOLUTION That it is expedient to introduce a measure to provide for the granting to Her Majesty for defraying certain expenses of the Public Service for the financial year ending the 31st day of ~'arch, 1979, the initial sum of one hundred and sixty-five million eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($165,850,000). ~. CHAIRMA_~: (Dr. Collins) The han. the Minister of Finance. J.lR.

HICKMAn: For the information of the Committee, the sum of Sl65 ,850,000, give or take a fe~.r dollars, is approximately one-sixth of the 'Budget that this Committee ~dll be asked to approve and is indicated in the main estimates which have been tabled. ~lR. CHAIRHAN: The han. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. W. N. ROWE: Mr. Chairman, before proceeding perhaps the han. the Government House Leader and we on this side can come to some kind of a modus operandi.

He are now debating the resolution which has been submitted to the Committee. 1-'e can either debate that generally and make specific and pointed references to various heads of expenditure and subheads or we can wait until we get to the bill and arrive at the clause where the heads of expenditure themselves arise so that we can have the heads called by way of a schedule. Does the House Leader have any particular preference as to how he would like to proceed on this matter? It is a matter of indifference to us, Mr. Chairman • MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please!

In the Committee of Supply and Interim Supply the resolution and the bill, itself can be debated at this time and when the Committee rises, if the House accepts the report the bill will go through its various sta~es ~•ithout further reference ~ack to the Committee. 832 .. •

!'arch 20, 197~ Tape 3rJl EC - 2 MR • HICK}!A'l": Mr. Chairman, only for purposes of clarification, the debate is on the main resolution as opposed to the procedure that is followed on the Supply bill itself where headings are called, that when the resolution passes the

schedule which contains these headings pass, but during the debate on the resolution it is quite within the rules for any hon. gentleman to refer in detail to any matter that may be under a particular heading. MR. W. 'll. RO"Io.TE: Okay,, that is all right with you? MR. HICIOTAN: Yes. l!R. H. ~. ROWE : Okay, Mr. r.hairman, we can just carry on. ?ir. Chairman, ordinarily, as Your Honour well knows, the Interim Supply resolutions and the bill normally go through the Commlttee of the Whole House without too much difficulty .

There have been one or two occasions when the Committee has had the pleasure, I suppose, of hearing extensive debate on Interim Supply, but in the normal course of events there is very little debate. l-Ie on this side of the House, Sir, would have been quite content during this session to allow the Interim Supply to go through and wait until the main estimates were called before Your Honour before getting into real hammer and tong debate on the estimates, but, Sir, as a result of the disgraceful document which the hon.

Minister if Finance had the unblushing face to introduce into this House a couple of ·days ago, we have decided, Sir, that we cannot in all conscience consistent with our duty to the people of this Province, allow even Interim Supply to go through without having some debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hea~! MR. W. N. ROWE: Mr. Chairman, the Budget which was presented by the hon. the Minister of Finance a couple of days ago, on ..

Friday past, indicated as clearly, Sir, as any human endeavour can indicate, the type of priorities which this government is going to be guided by in the short few months, hopefully, remaining to it in office in this Province. The P.C. ~arty priorities were clearly indicated to the world at lar~e and certainly to the people of Newfoundland. 833

March 20, 1978, Tape 302, Page 1 -- apb MR. W.N.ROWE: We saw, Sir, in that Budget Speech which appeared to be a Throne Speech in the way it was handled by the Minister of Finance, we saw, Sir, one of the most rabidly partisan documents ever presented in this House under the guise of being a Budget Speech. And, Sir, I will teli the Minister of Finance this now, that the next time a Budget Speech is presented by that side of this hon.

House there will be no television cameras in here, Sir, recording the political partisanship and nonsense that that hon. member emitted the other day unless, Sir, this government gathers up its strength and its courage and gets some semblance of bravery and allows the television cameras into this House on a general basis so that the people of Newfoundland can see generally what is going on in this bon. House and the way this government is conducting themselves. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

W.N.ROWE: Normally, Sir, as my han. friend the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee indicated on television a day or two ago, normally, Sir, you can expect a fairly statesmanlike document, a document which indicates in a factual manner, a clearly enunciated manner to the people of the Province what the financial and economic state and condition of the Province may be during this particular year and what it is likely to be in the year to come and the years ahead, but not this one, Sir.

We saw a document which was full of - I am not saying the hon. minister meant to deceive, but it was a document which in itself caused deception and was misleading to the people of this Province. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! MR. W.N.ROWE: And, Sir, the reason we· are debating on Interim Supply that budget and the 834 . ' • ·' t f

March 20, 1978, Tape 302, Page 2 -- apb MR. W.N.ROWE: Interim Supply now is to expose before too much time goes by the deception and the misleading nature of that particular document. As I indicated earlier, Sir, the P.C.Party and government priorities were clearly enunciated. The only example of any tax relief in the budget, Mr. Chairman, the only example of any substantial tax relief was given to what is called small companies or small businesses.

That was the only example where tax relief was given to our hard-pressed and beleaguered people struggling to make a living and keep body and soul together in this Province. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear! MR. W.N.ROWE: Now what is a small business to start off with, Mr. Chairman? Because nobody wants to knock or undermine the viability of a business which is truly small. What is a small business as defined by my hon. friend the Minister of Finance?

First of all, Sir, we are talking about a business which made no more than three-quarters of a million dollars clear profit over the past five years, so that it can be called a small business, small company for the purposes of the Income Tax Act, and, Sir, a company which will make no more than $150,000 clear, straight profit.

Now remember what that means, Sir 7 that means that the members, the presidents, the executives, the managing directors, the people involved in doing some work for that company can in the meantime have paid themselves $50,000 or $75,000 by way of salary and on top of that the company itself can have shown a profit of $150,000 for this coming year and still be entitled to the tax relief which the hon. Minister of Finance came into this House with a couple of days ago, the only example, Sir, of the tax relief which this government is willing to give. 835

March 20, 1978, Tape 302, Page 3 -- apb MR. ijiCKMAN: The hon. g.ent.leman is O:f;f on the wrong foot.. It is not profit over a period of five years of $150,000, it is taxable income. MR. W.N.ROWE: Taxable income? MR. HICKMAN: That is quite dif:t;erent. On a SO per cent profit that means it is half that, SO per cent tax, right? MR . W.N .ROWE: Yes, profit be£ore taxes, taxable income . MR. lUCKMAN: Taxable income. MR . W. N.ROWE: Yes! What is the problem, Mr . Chairman? Another attempt by the Mini s ter of Finance to try to , as John Crosbie would have said, obfuscate the proceedings of this House , Mr .

Chairman. Everyone k.nows what he is talking about. l-Ie are talking about a gove~ent which has given tax relief to a group, 836

March 20, 1978 Tape 303 PK - 1 Mr. W. Rowe: only small companies so-called which can make taxable income of up to $150,000 after whopping big salaries might have been paid. MR.. PECKFORD: Not profits. Not profits. MR. W. ROWE: The Minister of Mines and Energy is talking, Sir, as if he knows what is going on in the House. MR. FLIGHT: He thinks he does. He thinks he does, that is the problem. MR. W. ROWE: As if he knows! Just look at him, wagging his head. Look! MR. PECKFORD: (Inaudible) . MR. W. ROWE: Look, Mr. Chairman. We will hear a schoolboy's speech from him in a moment. Look at him , Mr. Chairman, look!

Pretending he knows. He is a good actor. I would say it is a toss-up between himself and the Minister of Finance who should be awarded the Oscar, Mr. Chairman, this year for acting ability - MR.. PECKFORD: You know more about that than - MR. W. ROWE: - the hon. Minister of Finance for his performance in the House the other day pretending, trying to make hard and desperate things look sweet and easy, or the hon. Minister of Mines and Energy who pretends every day he knows what is going on in the House. Look at him! MR. PECKFORD: I know where - MR. W. ROWE: There he goes again. MR. PECKFORD: - thinks he does. MR.

W. ROWE: Now, Mr. Chairman, if we can get back to more important matters than the Minister of Energy and Mines. Nobody is knocking small businesses, Sir, but it has already been indicated by the Board of Trade that,first of all,apart altogether from what I said a minute ago, the point is, Sir, the Board of Trade in St. John's has indicated that this tax relief given by the Minister of . ' Finance is totally useless and meaningless and will have no bearing whatsoever on incentives for small businesses in this Province.

It merely means a couple of thousand dollars extra in the pockets of these companies, companies that do in fact make $100,000 profit in a particular year. That is what it means, Sir. 837

March 20, 1978 Tape 303 Pk - 2 MR. W. ROWE: Now, Sir, the ones who need help, the small businesses which need help, the ones that make no profit in the coming year,who suffer a loss, or the ones which make very little profit and are struggling along, Sir, trying to keep themselves as a corporate entity, trying to keep body and so~l together, Mr.

Chairman, for those companies there is no relief whatsoever by this government to try to keep these small businesses and small companies afloat in desperately bad economic and financial times, the only relief, the only people who can gain from the tax relief given by the Minister of Finance in his disgraceful document brought down as a Budget on Friday, Sir, are those companies which can make $50,000 or $60,000 or $100,000 profit in the year to come.

Now, Sir, I ask Your Honour to bear that in mind when we compare the treatment accorded profitable operations which, when you include the salaries that can be paid can_ be upwards of a quarter of a million dollars a year in the pocket of the owners, the treatment accorded them by way of tax relief and a couple of percentage points reduction in taxation, and the treatment which is being accorded certain other individuals in our society today.

How has the government decided that it will make u~ the loss of $1.5 million - because they are going to give it to these so-called small companies, which are-certainly not small, and are not going to the companies which need it most, this tax relief - the $1.5 or Sl.6 million which is being lost to the government coffers as a result of this generosity by the government, how does the government intend to make up this loss? One of the ways, Mr.

Chairman, that the government is going to make up this loss of $1.6 million, because of their generosity to companies making a profit, and a large substantial profit, one of the ways, Sir, is to slap on a three dollar a day . I charge for people who have to use the wards in hospitals in this Province. That is one way they are going to make up this loss of revenue to the government coffers. Three dollars a day, Sir, slapped on top of the other costs that people have in the event that a mother or 838

~larch 20, 1978 Tape 303 PK - 3 Mr. w. Rowe : a father or a number of children have the misfortune of being admitted to hospital for medical treatment of some kind or another. Now, Sir, I ask this question; who, Your lionour, uses wards in the hospitals? Pr ofessional people, lawyers and doctors drawing down anywhere from $30,000 to ~100 ,000 a year, Sir, income? 839 l 'I ! I ' - l

March 20, 1978 Tape No. 304 NH - 1 MR.. W. N. ROWE : I would submit not. Businessmen, Sir, tradesmen making $25,000 a year 1 I would say not, Sir. Host people who have good incomes and most people working with companies, and most professional people, are already in insurance programmes which guarantee them private.or semi-private rooms in hospitals, Mr. Chairman.

The only people,! would submit, Sir, who voluntarily go to wards are those people who are outside of insurance programmes, those people who cannot afford the small amount of money, the difference between the cost of a ward, which was nothing at the moment unt~l this budget was brought down, and the cost out of their pockets of semi-private or private rooms. ~ow, Sir, these people, these very same people, people on welfare with families, who get sick as well as we do, are human as well as we are, people making small amounts of money by way of wages, Mr.

Chairman, with a large family, ten or twelve children, who are barely able to keep shoes on their children's feet and clothes on their backs, talk about essential services like hospitalization and expensive services like hospitalization and medical costs, r1r. Chairman, drugs and medication of various kinds, and the very people, the very individuals in society who are the least well off, the least able to pay, Mr.

Chairman, who have the least amount of money, who are suffering most already from inflation and from poor economic times, these are the people that this government and this ~linister of Finance, the hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr. llickman) sees fit, Mr.

Chairman, to slap the three dollars head tax on in case they have to go to a hospital, not through any choice, not through any voluntary effort, but because the medical doctor says, "You have to go to hospital," and as a result of that sentence they have to pay anywhere upwards of $50, $3 a day in addition to all the other costs that people are plagued with in Newfoundland and Labrador today, Mr. Chairman. That is what the government has done, Sir. That 840

Harch 20, 1978 Tape No. 304 :m- 2 MR. W.N. ROWE: is the way they have decided to make up the $1.6 million which they are giving the so-called small businesses uselessly, money in their pockets, admitted by the Board of Trade that it is a useless thing as far as incentive to small business is concerned. And this loss of $1.6 million or more- I would assume that that would be a very generous estimate; it is likely to be $2 million or $3 million I would say- this has to be made up off the backs of people who are forced to put themselves or their children into a ward in a hospital.

That is one indication, Sir, of the priorities of Her Majesty's Progressive Conservative Government. Another way, Sir, to make up losses in revenue - another loss of revenue which I will not mention now but which I will mention later, a scandalous use of the public funds- another way this government has decided to make up these losses and try to make sure that the government can balance its books, is to charge pupils in school, Mr. Chairman, the cost - make sure that they have to pay the cost of all consummable materials used by that student which might otherwise have been given free, or in a subsidized way.

We are talking about work books, Sir, and that kind of thing. Again, Sir, I have to say - Mr. Chairman, any way of getting a bit of order outside the House? It is very disconcerting. You do not mind inside, Sir. But anywhere - SONE HON. UEHBERS: }.:R, W.N. ROWE: Oh, oh! I do not care. I do not care. It is noise Sir. I do not care where it is. There is nobody here, Sir, there is nobody here who I cannot handle, ~!r. Chairman, but when somebody is outside the House MR. MORGAN: The hon. gentleman - HR.

CHAIRHAN: Order, please~ The Sergeant-at-Arms perhaps will take the matter in hand and make sure that order and quiet is kept in the corridors. }IR.. W .N. ROWE: Thank you, Sir. 841.

.rarc:h 20, 19 78 Tape No. 304 :u - 3 MR. W.N, ROWE: Another w.a.y, Sir, tha.t this government sees to make 'Up its losaes and to ge.t ellOugh money is to charg~ for, 01:' to make su.re the students pay for consummable mate.rials. Now, Sir, once more the questi .on has to be asked, who in our society is most likely to suffer from that? A family where the income of the ill.c:ome of the mother and father is $30,000 a year with three or four children, or a family that makes $8,000 or $9,000 a year with twelve children, oost of them . in school? And the question only has to be stated, Mr.

Speaker, before the answer becomes bliudingly obvious. But this is the kind of regressive measure which this government has again decided upon in order to try to ·make up for its extravagances, its mis .use of public funds, and to make up for other losses of income as a result of the priorities which they have decided on. 842 ! .. • t

Narch 20,197 8 Tape No. 3U5 AJ.J.-1 MR. 1-i.ROWE: And even there,I would submit, l·lr. Chairman, even assuming that something had to be done with regard to school books,it seems to me that this government in its usual blundering, unthinking way has chosen the worst possible thing to make a student pay for.

It seems to me, Sir, it would have been much better to require students to pay for other books which might be reusable, which you might be able to buy this yedr ana sell again next year as second hand books,or where big families could buy second hand books or pass books down through the family from one grade to another in order to try and save cost, Mr. Chairman. But instead of doing something like that, assuming it needed to be done and not saying that it does nee~ to be done, instead of doing that the government chooses tne very thing which cannot be used again, Mr.

Chairman, something which once used has to be thrown away. You have to buy,children in large families now have to buy out of their own funds completely, one hundred per cent, materials and workbooks and consumable goods used in school that canbot be used again and for which no further recompense can be had in the years to come,

whereas the subsidy still apply of course to books which can be passed on again from one student to another, from one year to another. They did not even have the wit, Hr.Chairman, to choose the proper, assuming they had to do it,and they do not, but assuming they had to,this government did not even have the wit, did t...Ot have the sense, Hr. Chairman, to choose the right thing upon which students should be required to pay all of some o£ the cost • '~o else is the e;overnment taking J:toney from in order to meet the costs of trying to oalance the Budget?

Are they taking it by way of an increase in personal income tax,which would apply much more fairly, much more equitably to the bette~ off than the least off? No, Mr. Chai=an, they are not doii.;lg that .They are singling out the students who are going to Memorial university, struggling, trying to get through their training in university so that they can come out and be contributing members 843 .. ,

~larch :2 U, 19 78 Tape llo. 305 lill- 2 ~iR. W". RU'w't:: of society, and their parents, Sir, ••no may have two or three students or children or more at university or in trade school or struggling through grade schools or unemployed, which aas been much more the case since this government has come into power; the government seizes upon these students, Sir, and requires them to pay ~700-or to borrow $700 from the Canada Student Programme before they can avail themselves of the provincial programme.

In other works, Sir, I would say - I am no expert in the field of this side of education and I will defer to my colleagues who know more about the financing of education at the student level, but I would say, Sir, that this requirement alone will require hundreds of poorly off, bri~1t Newfoundland men and women, boys and girls, to give up the hope of going to university and getting through in four or fl.·ve · bl t ' wJ.'llhave to extend it over a longer period vears)prooa y uey of time or give up hope altogether because they simply do not have the wherewithal or cannot stand the thought in a large family of their family going further and further and further into debt on account of their children's education.

I would like to hear from some of my colleagues on that matter, Mr. Chairman. But certainly if they are going to -i take money from'a segment of society in order to balance their Budget, in order to try and get money to make sure 844

f'arch 20 , 197 8 Tape 306 0\·f - 1 ;1 R. ~~. N . R 0 HE : there is no deficit on current account, ~ertainlv the people who you would last or least ~e expected to pick on, Sir, would be the children in school and the students at university or the students at trades school, the very ones who are struggling,they and their parents,to try to get into society with the training and the education and the skills to make a contribution and make a contribution to the public pool 'that was greater even than they qot out of it themselves.

Gut no, Sir; this 30vernment picks on that ~articular grouo, the students at school and the students at university. ~nd he is not satisfied with that, Mr. Chairman, not satisfied with that>the hon.hon. Minister of Finance. I heard a great phrase, Sir, on St. Patrick's Day ~Y an Irishrnan;it was to the effect that somebody had a heart as cold -as a 1·1et Christmas. Anc'that is what the hon. minister of finance, Sir, reminds me of,and his colleagues who supported this Budget, a heart, Sir, as cold as a wet Christmas, dismal and cold and uncomforta~le and mean in motivation.

Because, Sir, not being satisfied to penalize the studen~s, the pupils in school, the students at university, the people who are forced to use hospital ward beds when they go to hospital, not being satisfied with t~at they cast their ( b a 1 e f u 1 eyes around , ll h c e 1 s e can ~~ e k no c k , 1• h o e 1 s e can ''' e sock it tr?and they seize upon the children who have to get dental care and the~' say, Here is \•!hat ~1e ~1ill do; ·.·lit!1 t :1e one hand we will say we will raise it from elev~n to t hirteen yGar~. the program whereby a child can get the free dental program, ~~ e ·.~ i 1 l r a i s e that, make t h at sound good; and i n the same breath, Sir, robbing Peter to pay Paul ,in the same breath they ' say, ~very service provided for a child qoinq to a dentist ~1ill cost that child two dollars: Two dollars by itself does not :n ear. anythin(] but if you have a hclf a dozen kids I :ia\'C! :~ ; c, 845 • I

'1 ar ch 20, 1973 Taoe 306 !J '. ! - 2 r1R. \LN . RO\IE: Sir, small family - kno1·1 what they cost me for dental service~ and other kinds of services and keeping body and soul together, keep­ ing clothes on their back and food on the table, I know what it costs me. ~hat in the name of God must it be like for an impoverished couple with a half a dozen children whose teeth are rotting in t heir heads and they have to go to a dentist and it costs two dollars a s hot for every service provided by that dentist to a half a dozen children · u~ to tte ages of thirteen, :.1 r .

C h a i rm an . .~. n d a g a i n , S i r , i f I o r yo u r H c n o r h a s to pay forty or fifty dollars in dental fees we will probably survive. we do not make a great deal in this hon. House but we will make enough ta pay my hon. friend the member for Ht. Scio,who is now presently in the door­ way,to pay his moderate and sensible and restrained fees.

Hut, Sir, for somebody who is living on welfare, somebody who is making six or seven ot eight or even ten thousand dollars a year,with a half a dozen children and,Sir, forty or fifty dollars every six months or even every two or three months is going to make the difference, Sir, between misery - misery, Sir!_and ~lrhaps some kind of a half decent life. But again, this hon. govern~ent seizes upon the children needin9 dental care in order to try to r~ise the difference between the revenues and t he expenditures in this Province.

And I guarantee you again, without being any expert on dental care or the financing thereof but being some expert in observing human affairs and human psychology, I guarantee you, Sir, that this increase or this imposition of a two dollar head tax on 846 . ;:,

:~ a rc h 20 1978 Ta ;J e 306 . R. W. N. RO\·IE : children needing dental care will mean the difference in hundreds and thou- sands of children in this Province having half de­ cent teeth in their head or going around with teeth vii th cavities -,and all kinds of problems with their teeth because their parents will not be able to afford this in addition to the other costs which the government has laid on their heads in this particular Budget. Now, Sir, this government in its zeal to provide the public purse 1·Jith a balanced Budget, 847

:!arch 20, 1978 Tape 307 EC - 1 MR. 'N'. N. ROWE: once more casts its mean and spiteful eyes around the people of this Province and says, '\Vhere else can we impose a tax calculated to cause the most harm and the most misery in this Province?' And. sure enough, Sir, up they com~ with another area- they are requiring the school boards in this Province to contribute to the cost of school transportation, school buses for children, requiring the boards to contribute 10 per cent rather than the 5 per cent which they had been contributing traditionally in the Province.

And, Sir, the sneakiness, the disgraceful sneakiness of this measure is not evident in the Budget itself. There is no indication in the Budget itself that the people of this Province are going to have to pay any more taxes aside from those mentioned by the Minister of Finance. But again, Sir, as sure as I am standing here and speaking to this hon. Committee, it is clear from my discussions with people who are in education that this will mean that the school tax authorities in this Province will be forced reluctantly but of necessity to impose higher school taxes. Is that right or not?

I ask my friends who are involved in education. AN RON . NTI!BER: They will have no choice. MR. W. N. ROWE: They will have no choice, Mr.Chairman. So in fact this Budget brought down by the hon. Minister of Finance had the effect of increasing the school tax in this Province. Any tax is bad, Sir, but in this particular case you are talking about one of the most regressive, one of the most backward looking forms of taxation possible in any Province, a tax, Sir,- r'R. lfOttGAN: Brought in by the Liberals! ~m. ROWE: Brought in by the Liberals?

I do not know if it was brought in by the Communists, the C:azis, I do not know, Mr. Speaker. All I know, Sir, is that this Li'oeral Party when it gets into power '~ill abolish the schoo1 tax. SONE RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! l1R. W. N. ROl-lE: And we will abolish it, Mr. Chairman. AN HON. }!EMBER: It was not brought in by the Liberals. MR. l·i. N. ROl.JE: AnJ"'Tay we can get into the debate on ancient history as to '~ho brought it in Sir, I prefer to lock to the 848

March 20, 1978 Tape 307 EC - 2 MR. ~;r. N. ROWE: future of the Province. The ancient history of my han. friend, the Minister of Tourism - the future of this Province indicates quite clearly that in a matter of months there will be certain political changes, and when those polit~cal changes take place, Sir, the school tax will be one of the first pernicious, regressive taxes to go in this Province. We are dedicated to that, Sir. Because, Sir, it is a tax Hhich bears no relationship to the income of people, bears no relationship to whether you can pay for it or no.t, it is imposed on the rich and the poor alike.

And that kind of tax, Sir, we in the Liberal Party as part of a Liberal government, are determined to wipe out and to obliterate from the face of this Province. HR. NEARY: Hear, hear! t1R. H. N.

ROWE: Now, Sir, the P.C. government has imposed an additional school tax on the people ~f this Province, but not satisfied with that, Sir, not satisfied with that they look around for the most unfair tax possible, not an increase in corporation taxes based on profitability -no, Sir, we have a decrease in that - not an increase in personal income tax, if such need be, and I am not saying it is - no, Sir, because that might hit the rich people a little harder than the poor people. '~fuat will we impose further taxes on?' this government asked itself and decided, Sir, that they would impose a further tax by way of a sales tax,which again, Hr.

Chairman, is the most backward, most unprogressive, unfair, inequitable tax possible for any government to apply. Because again, Sir, it hits those who are least able to pay much harder than those who are able to pay. And these exemptions, so•called, for the necessities of life are meaningless, Sir. Anybody who knows anything about tax calculations and so on will know that it is the people who are better off in society today, those with greater incomes who will get the greatest benefit from these exemptions. 849

March 20, 1978 Tape 308 PK - 1 MR. W. ROWE: That is right. The Minister of Tourism over there, Sir, is the one who will benefit from this. He can buy four or five new suits, wear them into the House, flash them around, Sir. He will gain the benefit of this exemption on taxes on clothing. It is not the person with a half a dozen children, Mr. Chairman, who is trying to get a few dollars ,together to buy some clothes who gets any great benefit from these exemptions. AN HON. MEMBER: Cosmetics. MR. W.

ROWE: Any taxes, Sir, which hit the poor and worse off people of our society so hard as the sales tax is not the tax, Sir, which any civilized, any decent government, any government looking after the welfare and the dignity and the well-being of the people it is suppose to govern, no government would impose a sales tax which hits the poor with a bludgeon and the rich with a feather. MR. MORGAN: How would you ry~y for education? MR. W. ROWE: Put the han. member on display. That should be worth a $1 million a year, to the tourist industry alone. MR. W.

ROWE: Museum of natural history, museum of extinct species, _j AN RON. MEMBER: Put him in the museum of natural history. we would get a million dollars a year coming in. AN RON. MENBER: Oh, Oh! HR. SIXHONS: Cut out $50 million in waste. If the han. member will wait I will tell him how some of the things can be paid for in this Province because I have not finished yet, Mr, Chairman. There are a few other thin~s that need to be s~id. But before coning on to that, Sir, let me mention again the sneakiness, the slyness, :!r.

Chairman, ···ith '"hich the han. :!inister of Finance tried to indicate to the people of this Province that he is doing them a great favour as far as electricity consumption ~~as concerned. Out he comes, Sir, saying they are going to take the sales tax off electricity which would be a boon in itself. It would be very helpful to those people who are on fixed incomes, people on low incomes, Sir, especially those people who were taken in some vears ago by the actions of the government when they encouraged people to 8~0

March 20, 1978 Tape 308 PK - 2 Mr. IV. Rowe: get into electrical heating because there was apparently going to be cheap electricity available. And every school board in the Province suffers from the same thing as well; they were encouraged by the governments to get into electrical heating because it was so cheap only to have the cost of electrical heat and lights and power generally rise sky high, Sir. So taking off the sales tax from electricity would in itself have been a bo ; rto a lot of people.

A great number of people would have profited, would have had money in their pockets to spend on other essentials and necessities of life if the government had in fact taken off the sales tax. But, no, Sir, once again we see the sneaky way the government robbed Peter to pay Paul.

No sooner had they announced that the sales tax would go off electrical consumption then they announced that the same amount, by coincidence, nine or ten or so per cent, the same amount would go on the consumption or the cost of electricity by way of a rate hike which this government allowed its Crown corporation, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro,to impose. And they tried, Sir, to avoid the responsibility by saying that it was recommended by the Public Utilities Board. Everybody knows, Sir, what the Public Utilities Board is.

The Public Utilities Board is a board, a judical body, set up to look at the financial side of things, to look at the engineering side of things, to look at the technical side of things, and decide on the evidence presented before it - my hen. friend the member for St. John's \Vest (Dr. Kitchen) knows all about this. He sat down there for two weeks and listened to the gobbledygook and the muinbo-jumbo~resented to the Board, for the Board to make up its mind on.

And the Board,based on the evidence presented to it, financial and construction evidence, and engineering evidence, and economic evidence of all kinds,decided that, yes, there was a case financially for Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro to require its customer, Newfoundland Light and Power Company,to pay more for its electricity. That is all it decides, Sir. The Public Utilities Board was not elected to represent the best interest of the people of this Province; 851.

~larch 20, 1978 Tape 308 PK - 3 Mr. W. Rowe: the government was elected by the people of this Province,and this Rouse was elected, Mr . Chairman, from which the government is formed . And it is the government who !:Jave to take the full responsibility for making the policy decision to impose 9 per cent or 10 per cent of an increase on the cost of electricity to consumers of this Province . 852

}larch 20, 1978 Tape 309 JH - 1 MR. W.N. ROWE: And. Sir, it is even worse than,I suppose,it appears on the surface. The sales tax can only be abolished from electricity once, once you reduce it to nil. There it is. It is gone. That is it. But the government has given every indication that this year it will allow the increase in electricity to go up by nine per cent as far as Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro is concerned. And next year, Sir, the government will allow another increase, another nine or ten per cent. Where will the sales tax exemptions be then, Mr. Chairman?

I tell the people of this province that this government as a result of the policy making arm of the government, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, and I believe the evidence presented at the hearing will bear this out, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro is determined, Sir, to raise the cost of electricity in this province by forty, fifty, sixty, seventy per cent. HR. NEARY: They are told by the government to show a profit. :·IR. W.N. ROWE: They are told by the government, You show our bosses Now, 1-!r. Chairman, I do not know how the situation can be painted in any different way from what I have just 853

:larch 20, 1978 Tape No. 309 Jll - 2 :-lR. W. N. ROWE: described. \ihat else, Sir, what else did the government decide to do in its efforts to achieve some economies and to keep the budget deficit or cut out the budget deficit and then keep down expenditure to as low a level as possible1 Did they decide, Hr. Chairman, that they were going to make no more payments, frivolous, vexatious payments to their PR firm, the PR firm for the government and for the P.C. Party which, Sir, if there is any evidence of conflict of interest,there it lies? Did the government decide to do that? No, Hr. Chairman.

Hhat they decided to do to keep down costs in addition to upping the sales tax, in addition to upping the school tax, in addition to imposing a charge for going to ~ospital and going to a bed in a ward, in addition to increasing the cost of electricity to consumers, in addition to making sure that thousands of children would not have the wherewithal_ to go and see a dentist, in addition to all these things and several others I have not mentioned,they decided that rather than attack the frivolities and the extravagances they would light in to another essential service in the province,namely,the essential service of hospitals and hospitalization and hospital facilities.

And so they decide,and the minister took sort of a perverse delight and glee from announcing it, they decide no hospital construction this year. Now, Mr. Chairman, we might have had some sympathy for this government and for the Premier if in fact they had not raised the expectations and the hopes of people throughout this province.· But, Sir, for purely political purposes,in order to save their own skins as politicans in the 1975 election and later 1 they found it politically expedient, Mr.

Chairman, to promise the people of Central Newfoundland that they would have a much needed hospital extension; promised the people of the Grand Bank area, the Burin Peninsula,that they would have a new hospital; promised the people of the Bonavista Peninsula that they would have a much needed new hospital; promised the people of Port aux Basques and the Southwest corner of the province, the l_sland that they would have a new hospital. They promised the people that, Sir, and when they came looking for 854 ' I . ~ .,

March 20, 1978 Tape No. 309 JN - 3 HR. w.~. ROWE: their promises tell them, well next year you will have that, until finally, Sir, this government is reaping at this moment what it sowed 1 . : I 855 1. ~

March 20 , 19 78 Tape 310 IB-1 HR. H. ROWE: a government which raised the expectations and the hopes of people not in a silly and vain and frivolous way, Sir, not as far as frivolities are concerned,but concerning the very essential necessities of life, hospital care, decent hospital care. And now, Sir, they find that they are totally incapabl~ of meeting this commitment,or at least they say they are. I do not think for a moment they are. I think they have other ideas in mind as to t~here to spend the public's money.

I do not thinl~ the government and the Province is as bad as all that, that tve cannot finance $20 million or $30 million or $40 million or $50 million or $60 million or even $70 million worth of hospitalization which tv.lll be paid for over the next fifty years. And the irony of this sordid

chapter in the political life of our Province, ~r. Chairman, the irony of it is that if this government had not,again for purely political purposes,thrown down the drain, tossed out the window, $79 million on a premature abortive start-up,so-called,of the Lower Churchill development this Province would now have the money to look after these essential services, hospitalization services. SQ}!E HON. MEMBERS : Rear, hear! MR. lL ROl-lE: $110 million, I am prepared to say that that is not all wasted.

I think it is,but I am prepared to give the government the benefit of the doubt and say that only about $70 million or $80 million of our public money was in fact thrown down the drain and wasted utterly. I am prepared to make that concession, }!r. Chairman. When I think back - I was not in politics at the time.

It is one of the reasons I am back in this House again today - when I looked at the hypocritical political antics of this government prior to the election of 1975 and saw them blast off a couple of firecrackers on either sides of the Straits of Belle Isle to deceive the people of this Province, mislead the people of this Province into thinking that the Lower Churchill development was going to go ahead, when I think of that, J{r. Chairman, or t~hen any Newfoundlander or Labradorian thinks of that foul, infamous 856

~! arch 20 , 1978 Tape 310 IB-2 HR . l-1. ROlfE: misuse of public funds so that n01v the people of this Province cannot have hospital facilities, when anyone thinks of that, Sir, it is no wonder that there are petitions calling for the resignation of the Premier of this Province. "Over 800 Signed Petition For Moores To Resign", excuse the use of the name, Sir, it is in the headline. "A meeting tonight in the Haunt Peyton Hotel in Grand 'f"alls at which invited guests mostly political leaders from Central Newfoundland will discuss the situation," :Irs. Tubrett said. :'fr.

Tubrett happens to be the one remaining member,as I understand it,of the P.C. District Association in Grand T<'alls. ''!foores met with the hospital's Board of nirectors last May and guaranteed them the expansion would begin this Spring,' ' she said, Mrs. Tubrett. T-u-b-r-e-t-t, Tubrett it looks to me , Mr. Chairman, hut your know. "During the same visit to the to~m the Premier - he is called by his name in this

article in the Evening Telegram which I will table, Sir, if Your Honour requires it - "the Premier met with the local P.C. Association and said he would resign, Mr. Chairman, if the expansion did not go ahead as promised." SOME HON. MEMBERS: The Premier said that. .JlR. W. ROl-lE : The Premier • tiR. FLIGHT: Did the Premier say that? MR. W. ROWE: Mrs. Tubrett, Mr. Chairman, who attended the meeting with the Premier said the Premier advised them at that time to resign also if the expansion did not go ahead. Well, Sir, they kept their part of the bargain.

If the Premier of the Province and the ~linister of Finance ( ~r. Hickman) had a shread of whatever it is left in them they would resign, Sir, in disgrace for raising the hopes of the people of that part of this Province and several other parts of this Province in a matter which brooks no joking or frivolity at all, Mr. • !-. Chairman, the health and physical and mental well-being of our people, ~ ' one of the great essentials that any government has to provide if it is doing any kind of a job, Sir. 857

}..arcn 20 , 1973 Tape do. 311 AH-1 HR. 1-i. ROw£: 40,000 jobs, Hr. Chairman; this government is now going to create 40,000 jobs in the next five years.

Now, Sir, if this was a fresh government coming into the Province with a fresh mandate from the people, a government which was not tired and worn-out, a government which had not run completely out of steam and ideas, a government which did not exhibit at every turn complete intellectual bankkruptcy, lack of ideas, lack of intellectual vigour, lack of energy of all kinds, Sir; if this was a govenment that did not indicate tnat and exhibit that especially with regard to its Throne Speecn,tnen we on this side of the douse and the people of this Province might be incl .ined to give them once more the benefit of the doubt and to say " Okay~let us see; let us see what this government can do~ But, Sir, when this government by way of its Minister of Finance rises in this House and has the gall, the unmitigated face after six years of disaster to promise the people of this Province a blueprint, I think they called it, a blueprint, a promise of 40,000 jobs in five years, Sir, then we have to all say in this Province that it is wearing a little bit thin. dow many jobs were c~eated in the last five years in the Province, Sir? 8,000 jobs Mr.

Chairman, 8,000 jobs created in this Province in the last five years, 8,000 jobs in the Budget Speech according to the Minister of Finance, And this government, Sir, expects us or the people of the Province to believe, to take it, to swallow that they are going to create 40,000 jobs in the next five yearsl Mr. Speaker, talk about ad nauseam as mentioned by my friend from St. John's North (Hr.J.Carter) earlier, ad nauseam, Sir.

If there is anything that would be calculated to nauseate anyone in Newfoundland it would be to hear these same sick, tired, fatigued old promises on how they are going to create employment in this Province - 32,000 people out of work now in the Province, Hr. Chairman- in a Province,by the way,which has a participation in the labour force which is the smallest in the whole of Canada. Wnat i. I am saying, Sir, is that the figures show that a lot of people have given up in desperation, have resigned themselves to the fact that 858

Marcn l0,1978 Tape :\o . Jll .W-2 NR • .;. RI.Iwr.: tney ·~·ill not find a job and tnerefore only 32,000 ratner wan the 50,000 or 60,000 that there sh?uld. be appeal on the books and on t~e statist .ics and lists of the Uepartment of Labour and cne Depart~nc of Manpower. 32,000 jobs and in tbe next five years another what - 6,000 a year ;..~ HON. ~!I::HBER.: 6,000 l·tR. Y. RO•rr: : - at least anoth~r 30,000 or more ocher new people into tbe labour force,at least.

That is not counting an upsurge in the participation oy women,for example,which is presently the lowest in Canada and which can be expected by any reasonable government to increase as time goes on. Ther e is no reason why the \o"Omen of this Province should no t nave the same panfcipacion and right and opporcunicy to work gainfully as do tile women of other provinces of Canada.

So, Sir, we can expect to see a labour force of anywhere from 60 , 000 or 71), 000 or 80, 000 more jobs requireo, people lookin g for joos in the next five, six or seven years chan p rese~tly exists - or tnat presently have jobs ,I ~bould say, because I included in tnac 32,000 who are presently unemployed. And this goverament, this government, Sir, is gain& to find 40,000 jobs for these people. ~ ' • f. t 859

Harch 20, 1978 Tape No. 312 RT-1 HR. W. ROWE: The pathetic side of this, Sir, is the humbleness, I suppose, of the Government's objectives. I suppose they did not want to appear too incredible although for this Government to promise to create a thousand jobs would be incredible to most people. But this Government, Sir, decided that what they would do is create 40,000 jobs and fling that out. Now they could have said, Sir, we are going to create 100,000 jobs in the next five years and bring our unemployment problem down to zero; five years from now there will be no unemployment problem.

They could have said that, Sir. It makes about as much sense as saying there is going to be 40,000 j obs. But no, Sir, in order to try to be credible, in order to pretend that they were a government which is going to do something believable, they say, '~at we are going to do is aim for a small little unemployment rate five years from now, ten per cent of the Province is going to be unemployed". Now, Sir, if that in itself does not indicate clearly the bankruptcy of ideas and the bankruptcy of energy and thrust by this Government, that in itself would indicate it.

Ten per cent, Sir, ten per cent unemployment rate in most provinces and in most countries would be enough to make most governments with any pride or dignity resign from office in disgrace, thrown up their hands in despair and say, "We cannot cope with the problem, somebody else take over".

But no, this Government, in a midguided attempt to lend some credibility and some believability to its five-year blueprint, its great leap backwards into the dark, its Lenin plan perhaps, this Government tries to give credibility by saying, "We are going to aim for ten per cent unemployll!ent in 1982.'' Well, Sir, I wish the Government luck. They are only going to have about a year and a half or tw·o years in which to deal with the problem, because the people of this Province, Sir, have been taken in, I might even say sucked in, by this particular Government and this particular party long enough.

If there was ever, Sir, a need for evidence to prove what I just said, which appears to be self-evident, it was obvious f . during that by-election which I had the honour and pleasure to play a small Boo

March 20, 19 78 Tape No. 312 RT-2 MR. W. ROWE:

part in, the Twillingate by-election on December 8, 1977. My hon. friend, the member for Lewisporte (Mr. White) played a small

part in that as well. He did an admirable job, naming the campaign there. He knows, pernaps better than I, because I was going out door to door and he was in the office there, listening to the nonsense being perpetrated by this Government in its unholy·quest to cling on to another seat and to give the impression that it still had some drive and some ability left, and the promises, Mr. Chairman! Somebody counted up the promises and the cost of the promises made in that by-election. It came to something like $30,000 , 000. AN RON. MEMBER: Between $30,000,000 and $40,000,000~ MR. lo1.

ROWE: Between $30,000,000 and $4,000,000, Mr. Chairman, of promises made in a by-election in a desperate attempt to scrab and cling on to a seat, hoping, I suppose, Sir, that by knocking off the new leader of the Liberal Party it would give them a respite and ~reathing space, and they could then go quickly to the people while we were in disarray and perhaps gain another four or five years of hopeless government in this Province.

But, Sir, the people of the Province, the people of Twillingate District, whom, I would submit, Sir, are neither better nor worse than the people in any other part of this Province, the people of that District, a cross-section of good, hard-working, decent Newfoundland men and women,rejected the attempt by this Government to bribe them with their own money. They were all down their, Sir - MR. WHITE: The member for Deep Bight. MR. lo1. ROWE: The member for Deep Bight was down there, Sir.

Instead of resigning and doing the decent thing for the promise he made, the commitment he made regarding his hospital, he was down there also like the rest of them - MR. WHITE: Making more promises. MR. W. ROWE: - making more promises that could not be kept, and he knew could not be kept. And all the rest of them, Sir, were camped down there. 861 I J. I f. ' I

~ r ch 20 , 1978 ! ape No . 312 RT- 3 AN liON • MEMBER: I was not down t here . MR. W. ROWE: If you were not down there - oh, you were up in Quebec at the time trying to leam some French because the hon. Minister of Tourism at that tilDe had it in his .head, s·ir, to bail out of this Govemment,and it is the onl}' til;le he has shown any intelligence as far as I can see, to bail out of this Government and run federall.y, and "he is up there learning $Ollie French so that be can be bilinguaL That is the only reason, Sir - AN HON. MEMBER: He is in Japan - tokyo - to help them with the~r (inaudible) 8 £ 2 I I t. r . '

~ ' a rc h 20, 1978 Tape 313 B-1 !·IF_. l·l. P.OI-IE : I see. l•!ell anY'vay, the only reason he ~-'as not there, Sir, like all twenty other members or whatever there was of the administration down there making promises, Sir, $30 million - I will not say $40 million - I will say $30 million t·mrth of promises to the people of Twillingate district and the people of Twillingate district took it, Sir, and flung it back in the te~th of this government because they knew, Sir, that it was total nonsense anrl that this government had no intention of living up to the commitment.

And the worst part of the hypocrisy, Sir, was that the ministers who "'ere down there working, trying to get me "':necked out and the other man in, a fine, upright, respectable gentleman t~ho was lost in the flurry of activity, a man who was thrust into the background and the Pre~ier pushed out front, a confrontation between the ~on. the Premier and myself which the people of Twillingate sized up and said that we have had enough, l'r. Chairman, '"e have had enough of broken promises, of breach of faith, breach of trust, of commitments made. Take out your pen, Mr.

Chairman, and write on a bit of paper to the chairman of a community council, all right, such and such a minister,or I, such a premier, hereby promise you, commit you irrevocably, $3 million for a water and sewer system. ~othing to do that, Hr. Chairman. MR. NEA!lY: On the back of an envelope. HR. W. ROWE: On the back of an envelope, anything at all.

Calculated to impress upon desperate people,and I use the word desperate advisedly because when you have been without water in a community all your life and you are forced to drag buckets along through the ice and snow in the middle of the Winter, you have a tendancy, perhaps a greater tendancy than normal,to trust the Premier and to trust the ministers who make these promises. But the people of that district, Sir, and I would submit, Sir, the people of fifty-one districts have this government's number.

They know that the jig is up and that this government will never again be permitted as far as the people are concerned to pull 863 I r: i,,

~!arch 20, 1978 Tape 313 IB-2 the wool over their eyes an~ to go into office purely for the sake of being in office, Mr. Chairman, not for the sake of what you can do when you get in there but just to be in there, to be the hon. minister of this or the hon. minister of that and to spirit yourself around on aircraft, fly all over North America and Europe, entertain yourself lavishly at the people's e:s:pense and not care t'm hoots, t1r. Chairman, whether there is a water system in Durrells Arm or whether there is a hospital in Clarenville.

That is 'ghat we are confronted with, Sir, and that is why I would submit that a number of us got into politics in 1975, I know that is why I got into it, to make sure that this kind of ·political chicanery and skulduggery 'rlll not go on again. MR. t'!ORGAN: Came in on Joey's coattails. 1m. lv. ROWE: If there is anything that I can do - came in on Joey's coattails or something, right. That is right, Hr. Chairman. That is right, Sir, I was elected in 1966 on Joey Smallwood's coattails as were a number of hon. members here, as were or not. Clyde Wells was willing to admit that, Sir.

AN HON. ~IE}IBER: On the other side. MR. W. ROWE: A number over there on the other side, the ~<inister of Justice, John Crosbie, the former M~nister of Finance, Mr. Earle. There were a number of them, Sir, who got elected on Joey Smallwood's coattails and I was one of them. MR. SIM!>!ONS: And those who could not even latch onto his coattails, like the ~tlnister of Tourism. MR. W. ROIVE: He tried his best. Oh he did his best, Sir, but they would not have him. As low as '~e had sunk in 1970, Sir, ''e did have some taste. MR. SIMM=Or,_,t'IS::,.:,__ __ Brinking in the sheaves. HR. l'l.

ROWE: Now, Sir, I am glad the hon. member mentioned that because in 1971, Sir, the Liberal Party got defeated in this Province. 864 ' • i :

::arch 20, 1 ~78 13-3 SOHE HO:L l'P-!3ER S: Oh . oh! !'R . 1~ . I!O~'E: Hr. Chairman , if I could have a little order I would like to continue my few remarks. In 1971, Sir, the Liberal government was defeated in this Province after twenty-three years in office. And, Si,r, I do not minrl sayin~ -in 1972 this govert:'.ment took over on Janu ary 18th of 1!172- and , Sir, I do n~t mind saying as a Liberal tha t I was delighte d that the Liberal Party was defeated . I was deligh ted , ~r. Chairman, because sc;s t t '

March 20, 1978 Tape No. 314 .n1 - 1 HR. IY. N. ROWE: after twenty-three years in office any government,no matter how good or how bad, any leader,no matter how good or how bad, has a tendency to have parasites build up around them have a tendency ~ to have dead wood build up around them, has a tendency perhaps for the party to run out of steam, to lose sight of the reason why they were elected in the first place.

They become a little bit arrogant, Sir, after twenty-three years in office and I was delighted, Sir, that the Liberal party was taken by the people of Newfoundland by the scruff of the neck and the slack of the pants and flung out of government. I was delighted because, Mr. Chai=n, every party needs to have that rene~al procP-ss. MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible). MR. W.N. ROWE: And, Sir, that party, our party had in fact run out of steam and needed a breathing space to gather itself together and get new blood into it, new ideas, new concepts, new policies, and new directions.

But, Sir, it took twenty-three years for the Liberal Party to run out of steam. This government, Sir, has been in for six years and, Sir, the very same things that caused the ·defeat of the Liberal Party, Sir, have now grown up around this honourable crowd,as my friend says,but to a much greater extent. This party here, Sir, this government here has succeeded in six short years, Sir, in becoming arrogant in flinging out any kind of a promise for the sake of making a promise, Mr.

Chairman, without even worrying ~~e ther you have to meet it tomorrow or not, has run out of concepts and ideas and policies, Sir. l-.IR. CAl·iNING: They never had any. MR. lo/.N. ROWE: I am prepared to say- perhaps my honourable friend is ri~hc-hut I am prepared to concede that when some of these members were elected - I see one down there now,for example, the han. member for St. John's East;and there might be a few other ones, the hon. member for Kilbride, the hon. member for St. John's North- I am prepared to believe that the hon. member for Ferryland dow~ there still has the blush on the rose so to speak.

These hon. members I think, Sir, came into this government, maybe the hon. the Premier himself-l·'ho 866

Harch 20, 1978 Tape No. 314 J}! - 2 l1R. W .N. ROWE: knows!although he has skillfully hidden it- came in here full of vim and vigor, Mr. Chairman, in an honest desire to try to get this province on the right track or on the tracks again, on the right track as they saw it at that time. But, Sir, after five or six years of extravagance and misuse of power, misuse of public funds this crowd, Sir, is finished. This crowd, Sir, has used itself up and has certainly worn out its welcome as far as the people of this province are concerned. Sm!E RON. ME~IBERS: Hear: Hear! HR. W.N.

ROWE: And there is no more chance, Sir, of that - I will not go any further than that, Sir, But I will say that I would certainly welcome the opportunity of allowing the people of this province the c~ance to see or to indicate whether they want this government in any longer or ~•hether they want the good creditable alternative represented by this par~y on this side of the House. I would gladly put that to the test, Sir, tomorrow. SOME HON. }!EMBERS: Hear! Hear! HR. W.N. ROWE: Hr.

Chairman, one thing I forgot to mention when I was going through my few remarks there,! was indicating how this government had decided to give tax relief and tax benefits to a certain segment of the business community and had decided to lash into and take it out of the hides of those people in our society least able to pay,namely, Sir, students and people who have to go to hospital and use ward beds and so on. But, Sir, there is one thing that I would like to mention if I can borrow my hon. friend's estimates here.

Sir, in the Executive Council, Sir, on page thirteen there are a number of things which will be brought out by my friends on this side of the House before this particular debate is over because, Sir, the Interim Supply Bill is not going through easily or quickly this time. The hon.:Unister of Finance might as well resign himself to that. Now, Sir, we have on page thirteen of the estimates under the 867

' larch 20, 1978 Tape 3~5 r1 R • t'l • N • R 0 \·/ E : g en e r a 1 h e a d i n g o f Exec u - tive Council, ~sub-head,307,~rhich has the name Special A.ction Group - 1\ N H 0 N. ~1 E r-1 BE R : tlow, 737 M-1 HON. MEr-1BER: Action Committee. Now, Sir, the salaries are 51<'-9,800 dollars,about a $150,000 dollarsJair enough. '{!'.. SI~!MONS: ~or oart-time iobs. f!~. 1-1. il.

P.O\IE: have considerable mis- givings and doubts about the utility_ the usefulness of this particular group but I am prepared, knowin~ the peonle involved as I do 1 I am orepared to say that these ~eople earn that money.Jhether what they are doing is going to bear fruit or not I do not know; doubt it but I am prepared to concede that they are working for that money.

"But then, Sir, \•Je coi:le down through that sub-head and we come to - ~07-?3 which is called Resource Public Relations Program and, Sir, we have a revised estimate for the year 1977/73 ending 31st. of riarcil 1973 and ''le see, Sir, that this 11:overmnent h"-" ,,,..,ady spent, \~ithout any authority from this han. House or this hen. committee,$1,100,000 dollars, ~r.

Chairman, for PuLlic Relations a P.R program $1,100,800 dollars a new sub-head al together,was there not last year in the estimates of 1977/7B,something which was set up- how lon11: ago~two months ago and already the revised estimate indi- cates that that Special Action Group will soend by the time this financial year over well over Sl.ooo. ooo in P.R in Public Relations,in advertising and, Sir, I challenge the minister of finance or the han.

Premier to get up in this House and say that a substantial portion of that large sam of money is not going or has not gone to the P.C. party public relation titn , McConnell Advertising Agencies Limited headquartered up there in ~'ontreal. 868

~~arch 20, 1:?78 Tape 315 r-l~! - 2 MR. !LN. ROl·iE: OnP. million dollars spent on advertising in an effort to try to buttress,to try to make thiS government look good in the public eye by glossy,slick adverti?ing from a P.R firm headauartered in ~ontreal.Thev did not even have the decency, Hr. Chairman, as I understand it to try to em~lov some of the oeople in this Province who .have become ouite expert and competent at advertisinp and oublic relations. ~o. Sir, they had to use this hiqh- falutin,slick and plossv nolitical P.~ Fir~.the P.R. ~~rm that will, the P.R. Firr:1.

PRE"IER '·10f"JRES: Did you see Goldfarb? ~1R. '·l.rl. RrJviE : If I did see Goldfarb lately I can assure the hoo. the Premier that no public funds were used when ~tent to see him. Here! !-Jere! ~~R. '!.N. R(WE: Or Vicars and ~enson, for that matter, who have done an admirable job for the Liberal Party provincially and federally. We will find oeoplr lo~zlly, ~r. Chairman, who will do the same thinq. ~e did not need to use any glossv, slick advertisinn and P . P. • d 01.·m i n T 1~ i 11 i n q at e d i s t r i c t, t' r .

C h a i r m a n , I 1·1 i 1 1 re~ind the ~on, the Prenier. ~one of these nreat, biq blue and orange signs, ·~r. C'1airr1an, a yourrt fello'll fJy the name of John Darrow, who I recor1mend to anv~odv in this han. House who wants a few signs oainted in that particular area of the Province, who oainted them, Sir, with his own hand. r~R. F. ROl·'E: Right on the soot. t1R. :J. rl. RO\IE : ~one of this slick and nlossv ~ainland P.n. stuff in that oarticular election, Sir, and I a~ nodest 2nouah to sav that it naid neople cf T•:!illinnate district !tere turned off, "r. Chairman, by this 869 ,. I '­l- Ji; t v:

!!arch 20 , 1978 Tape 315 OH - 3 f·1R . H. /1. R OHE : hard sell, this l"lainl a nd voice t rying to pers uade them to vote for em~ty , vac­ uous p ro~ises from a discredited govern ment . :a ,lOG ,con " r. Chair man. to be pai d for P.R . - Perhaps not all of it is going to its agency . ! do not ~ no w , There are a n u~b er of ot her plac~s in ~ h e esti ~ at ~ s ~h ie ~ ve ~ il l be ques ti oning as ti ~ e goes on ~h ere there is other si~ilar,not quite so large but lar ge sums of n:or.e:r bein g oaid bv departments for o. R. anrl a.:!ver- tisin£1 . fiR . " . !!. ~ 'l ' !

E: A million dollars s ~ ent •;1 it!1out any auti1orit :1 fro m this llouse to try to bols - t r. r the sagqin9 image of a government in disrepute. :·! e 11 , t hey are not go i n g t o ;_., . .. ~· I

March 20, 1978 Tape 316 PK- 1 Mr. W. Rowe: succeed, Sir. T.he people of the Province are not going to be taken in any more by this kind of hard sell PR and advertising. Now, Sir, not satisfied with throwing well over a $1 million of the public funds away as far as the people of this Province are concerned, as far as benefit is concerned 7 the governm~nt puts in its estimates, in this new subhead, another $900,000 for this year, Mr. Chairman, to be spent for public relations and advertising and so on under this special Action Group subhead.

In other words, Sir, this government which saw its Minister of Finance rise in this hon.

House and wring his hands in despair and say that we had no choice,people of Newfoundland,but to make these savage cutbacks in your public service, no hospital construction, we have no choice but to lay it on the backs of the people who cannot afford to pay any more money for any service, th~s same government, Sir, while according a measure of tax relief to people who, I would submit, may need it, but need it least of al~ of all the people in our society,not satisfied with doing that, Sir, this government is going to spend the scandalous amount of $2 million, half of which has already been spent,for a programme that has already indicated to the public of the Province its total,abysmal failure, and a programme, Sir, which was designed,! would say in the first place,to do nothing else, a two pronged thing, first, to try to bolster the image of this government, number one, and number two, to get public funds into the hands of the PC Party advertising and PR firm.

Let the people of Newfoundland, Sir, put this whole thing in perspective. Let them put it in perspective. We know we are going through trying economic and financial times. Everybody knows that. But, Sir, this government would have gotten a measure of sympathy and support from the Newfoundland people if it had not shown first of all that it was careless and heedless as to whether its promises were going to be kept or not. 'Tell the fools 871

March 20, 1978 Tape 316 PK - 2 Mr. W. Rowe: anything;has been the maxim of this government, 'Tell them anything. They are only the people. If they want a hospital, tell them they will get a hospital, until the day of reckoning comes, and then what we will do is tell them they cannot have a hospital. And then what we will do is we will employ a high powered PR firm to put slick and glossy advertisi~g over the television and radio and newspapers to make us look as if we are good in sni!E of the fact that we have not kept our coiiiiilitments.

Subliminal advertising, and hard sell advertising,drill it into their poor misbegotten heads that we,the government,are really their benefactors, that we are helping them out.' That is their attitude, Sir. 'The people will forget that we promised them this or we did not meet this coiiiiilitment when the time was due, and we will try to fool them once more with an advertising campaign designed to make the government look like heroes.' Well, Sir, I can assure this government that it will be a long time before the people of Central Newfoundland will forget the breach of faith and the breach of trust perpetrated on them by the Premier and the government of this Province.

And I can as