L Volume XL Wednesday .#1 • . - Province of Newfoundland FORTIETH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND Fourth Session_ _Number 69 VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable P.]. McNicholas 6 July 1988

The House met at 2:00p.m . Ml~. SP r-: A 10·: R (McN.i. dw l~'l s) : 01ncJ0.r', plc,,ase! Statements by Ministers M I~ . ~i PEA K E r~ : ThE~ hon. thE! President of the Counc i.l.. MR. SJMM~:) : Mr. Speaker, during the past nurnbE!r' oF weeks, GovernmE!nt has introduced a number of significant social policy initiatives that wiJl bring lasting bE!nefjts to publtc E!lnp1oyeE!S in our prov"i.nce I refE:1r, of course, to a pension plan For part-time employees and t.he int:roduct.:-i.on of E!qual. pay for wor·k of equal value.

As you are aware, we have recently successfully negotiated an agrGE!ITlE!l'l 1-. ·for I:. he 'i.rnp.lf:'ITJent.a I::!. on of pay equity within the Public s r·'! t' tJ i. c f:1 • J a rn s u t' e a l J. h on . rnernbE·r·s . lAd1l agtnc-?.e that these .i. n L t J a 1: .i. v r:! s a r· r~ v r;! l" y p o s J -L oi. v :~ . roday, J r.un pl.r:!c:l~;r~d l:o announr::r:! anothE~r· rnajo1n social poJ.icy i.n i.t ·i.(.d: i.tJe 1~1h i.r:h Cour:>l''J'llflr:!nt hds had undc-?.r actiVE! constder·ation for a p r:! J" i. o d o F 1: i. rrw . J r· r:! fer· 1: o I·Jw PoJ.ib.cal Actoivity of Public Frnpl.oyE!t's.

NC'!l).Jfoundland and l..abr·ador, and all other judsdictions across Canada, h d v E! t. r· e1 d it ion a l. l. y p r· E! s f:H ' u E! d t. h t1 political neutrality of their public ser·vicC:'S by restrict.ing t:hC:1 poljtjcal rights of individual publoi.c r:1rnployf'!E!S. ThE! gu:i.d~:!l.i.nes by which we have been directed dal~c,1 be~ck some thirl :e en yee~rs, lo 1975. OnCE! considE!rE!d to bE! fair, t. h E! s E:~ g u ·i d E! J. i. n r;! s n o 1 o n g e I" r e f J.

E! c l:: the rE!ali.tiC:'S of our· post Charter· 1.3g4 q .J ul y C) , ·1 9 H B Vo ., X I sociE!ty, nor ·thE! rE!al:ities of what ·is OCCIJt'l' i.n~ :i.n o+:hr c!r j 1.11" .i. !) d i, cU . on s a r: !"' o s s C: an cl d a . Government: recognized that the l: i.rne had c OIIIC! l·.u l" ~~ v i f;!I~J o IH' Ol,s.Jn policy to ensure that its r·r~s l:r- i.e l:.i .ons I~JI :!i"·:: ! t,s.JiH'r'a.n I·: eel and lr:-!gi tin1ate.

Therefor'E!, somE! 1nonl :hs d•~o, Cdb ·i.nwl : d·i.r·,::!C'l.i-:!d l'rltO!, in my capacity as President of l'r·~?.d S IH''J Bor.u--d, l:o unclE!rt .ct!<f:' a cornplE!te asSE!SSITlE!nt of our policy and to r'P.COilllllE!I'ld appr ·opr·i .i'~l':l:• changes . In undertaking this t' (?. V i f:!IAJ, J l~Ja S aS k (.'! d ·I~ 0 (:111 SUr · E! t h \·3. t an appropriatE· baJ.ance l,s.Jas rE!achE!d bE!t .I.UE!en l::t,s.JO bas .i.e ·Lntc;!rC:'S ts: (

l) l:he ri9ht of the;! pt.ib]:i .c l':o be served by a politically neutral publ.-Lc sr"!rvi.ce; dnd ( 2 ) 1: h e r· J g h t o r- .i. n cl i v oi. d u a 1 p u b 1 :i c employees to exercise the ir d8mor.rat.i .r: r· i.ghl: s and fret:~doms .

I d :i.l''F! c l'.r:!d <HI ·i. n l-E'! n ~; i. v o -L n hH' ne1l reviet.u, asSE!Ssed trE!nds across the cotJn ·I-.t·'y, dnd con sull :c:!d !Ad.l: .h various int.E!rf:1Sl: groups, incJudj .ng l:hr.~ lltllllrHl l~ .i.g hi'.s Comm .i ss Lon, Government Managers Assocja tion i.'li 'ld 1.11'1 ion lr;!r;u:lr:!t't; 1.uho hacl exprE!SSE:~d Cln tntc~·r'c'!~~t jn t:.hois j_SSIJr~. (.)~ ,~a r·r~SI .l:ll :, COlJ('rJ"liiJE!J'll.: has appr·oved a nurnbE!r of chan~~E!S l:o 1:hr?. poJ.i.r:y on pol.il· .. i.ca l. actj vtty for publj c E!rnpJ.oyE!~'·S. ~~E:~ c o n s i. d o r· L h a t: l: h e n e IAJ p o 1 .i. c y ach'ieVE!S a balance bEd:.IAIE!E!Il publ:.i c and i.nd"i.vi.dua-1 .i. nl·~:·r·psl .. s.

Governrnenl 1 s new approach recognizes two groups of rO!mployees: · !':ho se whose responsibiJ.ities rnust restrict i:.h~:!ln fl"OJn (;!ngag .. i.ng in poli t.'i.cal ac-U .tJttiE!S; and UwsE! who nE!Pd t.o haVE ! feiAJ rest-.r ·Lct. ·i.on s pla ce d upon thE•rn. ThE! vast mc'ljorit:y of E!lnp J. 0 y E' E! S No Ci g :n 9 '~9

will be polj tically nonrestricted, a n d l a rn p l E• et s e d I~ o a n no u n c e to d a y that aJ.l bar'ga:in:i.ng unit ernployeE!S t~.Ji.J.J., i_n future, no longE!r b~;:~ rr:~quired to rE!Sign their posiU .ons in order to run for federal or provincial elected office. SOI\1E li.QN. MEM~.F.:~~: Hear, hear! MR. Siri!MS: RathE!r, Mr'. Speaker, i:hey wilJ bE! granted unpaid leave of absence from t.hei.r' positions, and t..ui.lJ. bE:~ r e q 1.1 -L r E! d t o r' E! s i. 9 n o n 1 y i. F i: h c~ y are elE!C'U!d.

In addition, the pet".i.od of U .mr~ Jnvolv:~d IAJiJ.J. nol. be cons:i.der'ed to bf~ a break in s ('!rV i c <:!. T h (~ pol i.1: J c all y inn s -1: r' i c J:::!C~ g r' o u p ::i ncJ udp~; nt~inag<,~rnE:•nt and nonbalngi:l.i n.i.ny un i.l-. f~Jnploy('!(:•s. Government has decided that, in orch1· ' l:o pr'ol:f :•ct l:h(:! pol i.

L i.cr1l neutralil:y of the Public Sr:,rvice, ex J. s 1 . .i n g p r' o v j_ s :i on s t..u i l J. b :'! maintained with respect to this group. l-lotAJ('!V~~r', a fur'l:ht=!r' ,~ev .i.eJAJ t.~Jil_l be undertaken imrnE!diateJ.y to ensure that as few empJ.oyees as possible, i.n that gr'ouping, haVE! their political activities J~r:,stricted. Therefore, until this review is comp1E:' h?d, all. manag<;!HIE!nl: and nonbargaining unit employees, who tAJish l.:o s~H,,d fE:!d<,,ral or prov'i.nc i ~'ll. electE!d officE!, tAJilJ. still be r' e q u i. r E:' d L o r E! s :i. g n I: h (~ i. r· pos] U .ons.

HOIAJE!Ver, the fol] OIAJi.ng ne1~J prov·i.s Lons IAJ'i.J.J. apply to thos:~ to ensure that they who do not get e l E! c I·. n d r· e r; e i v e F i'·\ iT <'I n d P 111 p iH' i. i a 1 cons] der·atj on fol" rE! .. --instatE!ITieni~ 1: o 1-.1-w .i i'' F o r· 1 n t:! i" p o !d ·U . o n s : (

I) No ac i· .Lo n IAJ.i.-1 I bu -l:.akr:·n ·l·.o f:J]1 thE!j_r' positj_ons until thE! c.].('' c t:i on r'e s 1d 1. s i'H'E! f j_ ni:ll i. u:•d; 1.39'~·0 July G, '19B8 Uo 'I X I.

(2) CandidatE•s wjJ.l now apply of l:he d iT [;! c L l. y 1.: 0 t: h E! Chai.rman Public ServiCE! Commissjon for re ·instatement to t: i·H~·i ,~ f or'rne r· pos'i.U.ons; and

(3) The will not: period of Lime be considered involved l.:o be a break in service. The new poJ.icy on poJitJcal acti.v ·iLy also cJ.eetrl.y l"!nunciat: .es certain standards which are des i. g ned l·.o pr'o t:c::! c i-. bo l:h (:.he pubJ.i.c interest and thE· individuaJ. pub 1 i c 8 rn ploy C:! ~~ s . T h C::! s E:! s l: and i'l r· d s incJ.ude the foJ.lowing, Mr.

Speaker: No ernpJ.oyees shaJ.l in any manner·· b:~ compe1J.:~d l.o l.i'tkn pat" i: :in any poli ti.cal undrtaldng, or· to rnah1 any con l. r' i. b u i: .i. on i: o d n y pol L -1-·. ·.i cal . party, at~ bE! in any mannE!r· l:ht"ei:d·.nn(:!d or· d i.SCi" ".i.trd .naLlc>d against For· tnefusing l:.o l:ai<E:' parL .i. n any pol j 1: .i. c d -, a c I. :i. v .i. t y ; No e1npJoyr:•E! shall indirectly use, or thE• aiJthori.Ly influence of their control 01~ mod ··i.'Fy actions of any other d .i. r E!

C l: 1 y 0 In SE!Bk lo use, 01" o[--f-J .C'.'.I.i'l1. pos:i tions to the poJ.itical pE!rson; No E!mpJoyee shaJ.l, dt.tr'tng the course of their hours of work, engage in any form of poljtical a c t :L v i. t y ; N o e 111 p l o y e (~ s h r.ll 1 a t a n y t ·i Ill<'! t a I«'! part 'in politicaJ. activities as to 'i.rnpd:i.r l·.hei .i·' 11sefulnes s i·:o thE! positions 'in which they are ernpl.oyod; dnd () ll. p n 'l i_ l::i. c a l -, y n o n 1~ e s 1-: r ·i c 1:: e d E!rnployeE!S, whoich I haVE! dE!scribE!d (~ai"l i.et', IAJ'i .ll. havr~ th(! i~ .i.ght and Freedom t:o part:i.c:ipate tn any :~l.c~c l·. ion cdmpa i.gn, dnd all E!TnployE!(c'S wil1 haVE'! l:he r':-i.ght.

Lo ai-.h:!rH~ publ i.e po·l i.·l:i.cdl. lr!E:!E!I:.:.i.ngs, make contributions l:o !:hE ! par-ties No . fl 9 [~39~)()

of their choice during elections and, of course, haVE! the r'i.ghi : l:o vote in any election. ln addition, Mr. Speake:1r, I have beE! n d ·.i. r1::' c 1:E!d by C1:1b i. n c;! i: to n n s IH'f:! that aJ.J public employE:'E!S lAIOrld ng .i.n go~Jc,,nnnc~nt dnpal"·i:rnen l-.s dt'c~ rn; :,d:~ aware of thE:1Se provj sions.

In l::hal: r':~sp0cl:, 1~1r~ t,1.Ji .ll . br~ sr~·nd ·i.n~ d bn)chure to aJ.l of l:hE! employees Jn ·i:h(~ f>t 'I)V i.tJC(>.. r:uJ"i:hUI'Jil01"8, J wjll be contacting all Crown Corporat ·i.ons, lloiH'ds, COIIIIII i.s s ions, and Age n c j C-:'! s to acquaint the rn wit. h thE! d.i.r'ect:i .ons wh .i.ch goVF.!rnrnenL i.s t a k i n g , a n d E! n c o u rag e ·l: hE:' m to implemc~!nl: sim·i.laJn pol.i.c i.es. Necessary regulatory and l.(~gi.slat.ive changes l.1Ji.1l. be rnade to implement the new policy. Mr.

Speaker the issue of Political Acttvi.t.y by publ.i.c ~:>mpl.oyE!(,1S i.s an important one for all concerned. We are convinced that our approach to such a serious issue is one that is Fair and E:!qutl~.abl.e, both to the pe:1ople of !":his Province and L o ·i. l: s p u b l. i c o m p l o y E! e s . J n d E:1 0. d , th::i.s js, as I said, another s t g n i F j c a n 1-. IT1 a j o t' s o c i. c:d p o l 'i c y in:itiative that :is of extreme 'i.Jnport:anct'! to all.

PubJ:i.c F::rnployees, o u t' I' l" o v ·. i. n c i. a l. and one that l:h .i.~; gc)l)et'rltnCHli" i.s v r~ i" y p i' o 11 d L o announce today . ~30MI·: liON. MEMIH::~~:) : ~ . ·-·-- ·-- IIE'ar, hear! MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKfR : The han. the member for Fogo . MR. TULK: Mr'. SpE!al<er, announcelnl'!l'lt President of we welcome made today by Treasury Board thE! the (Mr. Strnms) . It is, as he says, a sigrdficant. and major social I :l9 51. J :J 1 y () , ·; 9 B f3 Unl. XI poljcy initiative, but, I would say to thn PrE!Si .denl: . oF Trlc!asur'y Board, it :is long over'dUE!.

It. is sornr-:d·.h i.ng i:he 1,1n:-i.ons Jn l.:lri.s Province, particularly those pr~oplc~ 111ho l''t~pi'C! ~;enl: publ:i.c employees in the Province, have b(;;!::!J·l pu:.>h in~ 1-ol'' l-or' :>oJnet:·i.rnc~. M I~ . POW F. R : They were not even allowed to have a un :i.on t,~.ll·wn you IAH'H'r:! i.n potAier . :VIR. TUI.K: Is the hon. gE•ntJ.eman FE!E!Jing nasl. :y about: somel:hing l.:oday?

IF h e j_ s , I t.~d 1 J. s e n d h i 111 o v E· r a candy. tl.: i.s sornet.:hi .ng t·.hi :~l: is J.ong overdue, and i·t :is sofJIE!Udng that unions represenl": ing public empJ.oyees in this Province have b(,H!n pusl"l"Lng for for' sowe YE!iH's.

I notice with interest that the 1n'i. n is l e r s says , 1 0 n c e consider ' c• d to bE! fair', UwsE• guidE•lines no longer reflect Lhe realities of our post Charter society. 1 That j_ s I: r u e , a n d t s u p p o s e t: o cJ a y -i. s a s good a timE! as any to pay tribute L o d g ,~ P d l. l. :i. bE! in 1:. a r' j_ an , by 1·. he name of Pierre Ell:iott Trudeau, f o t' s ,,~ n · i. n g 1 ·. h a l: I: h a l: C h ;~ l" l: n r' IAI ';' s put in place in th:l s country. I i:hi.nk 1.11t:! shoi.Jl.d gl) on J···(;!r;OJ"d i'IS doing that.

Mr'. ~-)po.i:lkc ~;··, l jtJsl· . hr~1Vr:> a couple of questions I wouJd like the m.i .n i.s·l:ur' l·.o addr'c:•s:; at some po -i.nt :. MR. RAifW : Wh~t do you think we have Question P E:• r' "L o d F o t' ? MR. TULK : 1 A1-. somE! po"i.nL, 1 t sa "i.d, old JandsJ.:i.dE• from Humber West. 'The politically restricted includes management group dnd he nonbarga:i ning unit. E!rnployE!E•s, 1 1\J I) . (j 9 R39r.i1

Si'l.YS. At SOfiiE! point, I lAJOUJ.d J.j kE:~ h i.m L o add l" C! s s IAJ h y no n bar· g a _i_ n i. n g unit employees are exempt from the pol i. c y he ·;, s n 01.1.J p u L 1. i. n g i. n p] ace . I lAJO u] d point out. to him L: h a '1:. a 1 0 1: 0 f L h 0 s e p e:! 0 p l (~ d rn E! i. n junior positions in l:hE! civil s.:~rnv-i.ce,~ and, t:o rne, l:hE:~re ser:!JnS Lo be no justification for leaving those people within the boundary whereby they are not enabled to get involved -i.n poliLical. activity.

He says, 'A further r·eviet.~.J IJ..Ji.ll bcC! undert.:aken immediately to E!nsure that as fE!lAl employees as possible have their political activities restricted.' MR. SIMMS: Including those you just mentioned. MR. TlJI.K: T know, incJuding those I just ITIC:!ni: i.onc;!d. l IAJondr-:!l" hot.1J ·long l·.hai-:i.s going l.o takE!. I hop~'! :i ·l: is done before i:hf:! tlr·'!X1: t:!J.ect i.on i.s Cdl.J.0d, bPcause thE:~ hon. gent] eman and his pain1:y aro Famous i-:-Oi" rnak i.n'd cer·t·ain commitments on the eVE! of a n e l e c +.: i. o n , tAl h :i. r: h I s u s p e c 1: IAJ C:! are trying to build up to now.

ThE!Y are Fi:'lmous For' mak·i.ng statements before elections, particulArly to labour people in this ProvinCE!, and as soon as thE! elec i.:i.ons ar~~ call.c,,d and ovE•r t.~.Jith, thE!n they try to reVE!rt back t.:o somet~hing else. O·F course,~, l say to the hon. gentleman, that lAJill nol: be,~ a prob1E!In after t.hi.s e 1 e ct. ion, becausE! thE! y tAli 1] b E• sit l.: 'i. n g o v E! r h r-;! r e and IAJe lAJ "i.l. J. b f'! sitting over there, and we, 'i. n cl C'! E:! d , IAJ i. l. J. ::i. nr p 1 P. m (Hl l I: h o s {~ k ·i. n d s of social policies. Mr.

Speaker, as I hav~:· said, tA.JP lA)(! l, C 011)[) 1: h i, ':• pat"'l-:i cuJ dl"] y si-.CJ.i·.c!m!'!n1: i·.h.::tl: t h J'· eat E'! n ('! d s ·l·. d l: e rn c• i'l I· , d n d we welcome the p e o p l e IAJ i.l J. no 1-. b (:. or djscriminated ! 'l0 fi/ !'tJ'ly 0, 'jqgg ~Jo -1. X I against for r'E:~fusing to l:ab:' pa1"t i.n any pol-.i.l·i.cal acl.i.v:il:y, cw, indeed, for taking

part in any p o J:i. t i c a J a c l: 'i. v .i. 1· y . r n v ·i e 1..1J o r what we have SE!E•1·1 _ .. in thE! past, we have seen cases where Social Services officE•rs haVE! bE!~:·n forCE!d by l:hE! prese•nt: gover'nJTHHli": of thts Province to deliver cheques to tAJe 1 far t;! p E• o p l E:~ 'i. n i:: his P r· o vi n c e -­ we hope that that kind of pressure w.i.l.l. be al.l.evi.at·.E!d by Lhose t.ypE!S of guidelines that we are now seeing.

We also hope that if people dE!Ci.de to run for· par"UE•s other' i::han l:hE! gover·ntng party, the problem IJ..JiJ.J. not comE:~ back to haunl: Uwm at some poi.nL in t:he fu tur·e. I want to point out one other l:hi.ng i.o Ute trri.n·i.si:nr', iHH:l t-.hai". 'is that in onE'! of th(,~ st:andar·ds he Otj'Lli.ncs he says, 'No einployee shall at any time take

part in pol·i.'i: i,1;.~:d de i:·i.v i.l. i.l'!S as ·l.o :i.mpa .. i.r thr::dr usefulnE:~ss to the posi.l":ions · i. n IAJ h i. c h U·w y r:l i" C:! C"! rn p l o y E'! d . ' Obviously, there is a form of adjud:i.cal·.·i.on. l undtc!r·sl·.etncl t:htc• point hE! j s making, bu L at somE· po.inl·. l tJ.JOtjld J·.i kC! ·l:he rn"i.ni.sl:E:!r l::o teJl us who determines whether the c"i.vi.J. SE!rvanl.:, tn t·.hi.s par·Licular case the public mnployE!E!, has taken some po1itica1 action that is going to irnpair his sE•rviCE! ir1 thts Pr·ov"i.nce. l hopE! ·i.t 'Ls nol:·. a poJ itical figurE!.

I hopE! i I"~ Js somebody tAJ""i.l:hin thf~ Publ'i.c ~3E!rV:i.ce Commission. Mr. SpE!aker, onE! othE!r thing, <'!ncl I lAJi J. l c l.tiP. tJ p t.~.ri_l ... h 1: iri. s . T'hE• Plnesident of Treasury Board says, 'Nr:~cessdt"Y inP.gtlldl.or·y and Jegislative changes will be made i:O i.IJlp}rWJf'!l'li·. i·:h(:! nrc~IA) p0J. ·i.Cy. 1 1\1r. Speaker, I say to the hon. cJ 0. n i '1. c~ 1 n r:l n -1-. h d t l b P. J · i c• v e i·: h a 1·. t: h :.i. s 1n:i ght very t..r.JE:~11 bE~, if thE~ Pr·em:l.E't" c.Jn gel·. h.i.!; poptjJ;o,1r'i.l:y 1.1p to l·he point l..r.JhE!lne he~~ bt=•1:i.(;!VE!S hE'• has a No 69 1n 9 s?

chance of winning an election. He knows n01.u he dOE!S noC and Lhal: this will probably be the last s i t +·. i. n g of t hi . s I. t' g ·L s l. a '1: 'J r e . l IAJould ask the hon. gentlE!ITlan if he would see that any regtJl.ati .on d.nd the I'IE~cessar·y legislaU.on is passco~d ·i.n thi.s si.U:'ing of i:.h:~ House, so that we do no ·t have the govf~rntn(HJ L cal.l. ·i.ng an ~~J.r:!C'I: i.on lAd th the hop?. that thE~Y do not havr:! l.o i.1nplr~mnnl: Uwsn pol:i.ci.r~~; .L f t h C'! y t."d n . J c an t. e 11 y o u t hat l:hal: i.s d '>tni.'lll. 1 ·i.f' I bttl.

I IAJOtJl.d hopt' that the hon. gent1ernan br·i.nys ·i.n !:he lcH~ri.sl.al::i.on nou.J. SOr-1E IWN. MF::MB F 1~:3: !lear·, hear! MR. FENirJICK: Mr . Speakc->.r. MR. SPF.AKF.R : The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. FENWICK: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I i:.hi .nk the Jim I am BrotAm l. a s l t~ 1 e c 1:. i. o n I vocational. go i. n g to c all. t. h i. s regulations. In the i.n l9R~>, w:! had d instructor in Pl.act~nti .a, IAJho tAJani·.l':!d l:o 1nun i.n pJ acent:i a, by thE! narnE! of J:i m llr'OIAJn.

UnForLunai'.Hl.y, IAJe fotmd hro' couJd not t-ake any leave, hE! had I: o q u i. 1. h i. s j o b i. n or· d ::! ,., l: o i" 1 J n and ~;o on, and Jt: was quite a tnPs~;, Mr·. ~-lpE~akcr·. In a s E'! n ~' E~ , thE:' I" E'! lAJa s not on 1 y hi 111~; E:! 1.1-:- bu 1: 0 l:he r· S, l. ·i,!u~ ~)c)lfl Connotn!;, for· examplE!, IAJho tt"ied to gel ·. 1.1-,~~ notni .naL:·i.on in ~)1.. John's f.ast ExtcoH'n for thC"! PC Party, and l.enora Fagan 'i.n !:he ~~ai:.erfor·d Kenmount by-election just recently. There have been a number of public ernpJoyees who h a v E! t r· i.

C::~ cf t o g e I: i 1w o l. u e cl i_ n t: h c:! political process and have been forced to resign i:hPir posil:i.ons L39 53 Ju1y 6, 1988 Vol XL and apply back and hopefully be reaccepted . When they ran for the PC Party, of course, this IAJaS usually a f.lino for·tnd si .l:uai'."Lon. T arn not sure if l:he LE~ader of l:he Off i.e i.al. Oppos .i.t:i.on ha~; had th ·i.s ptnoblE!rn, but I know, myself, that i. n F.! n c o u I' a g i. n g p u b 1. "i c C"! lfl p 1 o y E! E:! s t o take full.

part in the political pr·occ'!SS, :i.ncl.11d i ng br=dng candidates, that this is a vel"Y 1 rkl j n I' c o n c n r· 1·1 a n d o n 0. 1: h a i: t.() e h a v e beE!n addressjr1g for· quitE! a lAJhi1E•, dnd '1: dill ~:fl ad i·o s Pe thF~ L governrnPnt has taken about Uli"er~ qtli'H' l·.er·~; or I·. he s h:!pS required to rectify the situation. Mr. Speaker, in retrospE!Ct j 1: should bn real.:i .zed U1al: !:his jurisdiction is quiLe a ways back.

Nova Scol:.i.a~ Fol" exarnple, has had this rjght for two or t. h r e <"! y E~ a r s , T t: h :i n k , wi'H'! n a 1 e g a l case established the precedent +:hal: publ. ·i.c E!lllployee~; do h;:qve that right. In a SE•nSE!, IAJhen thE!

Char~or of Rights was passed in Canada, about fjve otn six YE!ars ago, i.t, in fact, made it impossible for governrnE:'nts to be rt~all.y hC::~avy-hand(•d on t:he· .ir employeE!S, but U1e problem was thE! e1npl.oy(H!S had ·i·o bn f~ i.r·ed and you had l~.o go through ar·bitrat:ion t:o I. i" y i·. o g c~ t L h r~ i. r j o b s b i:l c k ·i, n order to establish this right . nw f d C 1: 1: ha 1: -1: hr:! g 0 l) (c'Y' I'Hnf:' n t hi'l S sc~:i .d ·t.hJs ahl:~ad of l:.jrnE·, I think, l~li .ll, llli:lkc'~ ·j 1. lfiiH :h i''i'IS i.l~i". Ml".

Spt'aketn, it rnc,~ans t:hai~. in E!XCI~~;~; Oi- /.0,0()() peoplC! ~i.n l:lri .S Province are now in a · position I,\) h (;! )'' (;! I· h (c' y h d v (! F I J I J. p () l i. 1". "i. c a 1 rjghts, IAJhE!I"E~as yest.t'rday they did not., and r Ci'lnno1: hE!l.p but ~>ay that this is a long aiAJait.E•d -Ln ·i.t:·'Lc:tL ··i.t.Jc~. I hat.JE!, i.n 1ny fil.:ing CabinE!t j.n my ofFice, Mr. SpE!akE~r', a fi.l.E! oF lc:!LI:E•rs bei':WC!E•n rnySE!l.f and the PrE•rniE!r of I:I·J:i.s ProvincE•, over i':I'Ho~ l.asl'. coup]r::· oF yE•i'.lrS 1 No. 69 R39: .d

IJr ' g i n g h i. HI 1-. 0 L:~ k 0 i. h i. c; p ~u· ·L i. C U l iH' ~~tep, and Jette1":. he has sent back L:o 100. i nd i. c cll:r:!d l·. ha i. i. L ·i_ s on l. y lat ·ely that hE! has obviously come l:o i hf~ cone lus i.on l:ha.l: Uw Char·h,,~· ,~ights people have shouJ.d be giVE!n l:o :hum. Lc.'l s U . y, I IAJOIJ ld 1. 'i.lw l.:o add n~ s s the question of restriction on llli'\nagernC::!ni-. Co~tnpl.oyE!eS. If I recall, in the research that I haVE' SCo'C:'n 011 il.:, r~he lllanagE~IlH o'rlt employeE!S who should be restrictE!d are those who take

part in the formulation of government policy. I think t h a I~ s 1·1 o IJ l. d be I as they say, thE! Occam 1 s J~azor that. t..uouJ.d bE! US('!d l:o SE'!paral~e !':hose IAJho should be allowed to participate ·i n 1·. h c~ p o l. i. U . c a 1 p r o c E! !; s f r· o m those t..uho should not. This IAJould mean, obv.i .otJsl.y, depul'.y m:i.n.i .s·i:ors, and perhaps a feiAJ pE!Op]e below l·. h n m , dw 1 1 l d b e i. n tJ o ., v e d i n i-.1 restrjctive sphere.

Others, J J.tJOU-1 d ar •g1w IAJ i_·l:h yuu, s hf)lll d br~ aJJowed to carry on p r· o F f~ s s ·.i. on a ·1 l. y , and 1 Jw y !) h o ul d tJ:.e thc.=di~ own d:-iscr'c'!tion in tenus of r·:i .gh1:s. Mf~. SPF::AI<F::R : Or·der·, pleasE:~! Mf~. FENWICK: Rut, Mr. Speaker, this is a grE:'at day. I 1.: !fleans l·.:hco~rE:! arE~ 20,000 rno lnE! pE!Opl E• who can take paint i 11 the political. process. In terms of rE!Cinui.ting candidatE•s, I would J.tkr:! to thank the Govc~!rl'llll~~nt House Leader for making my job much, much e as i.e r. MR . SPEAKF~R: Or·dc'!r, p]ease! f1E!Fore Ci~ll .-i.ng r~or· Ol"al.

Que~;{: i.ons' J i·akcO! p1edstH'E~ j n :introducing thE! l'icHl P d i 1· i c k fill c C 01.1J<Hl i'1 n d 1: he H on . John I jsnick, SLatcc~ f?r:!pr·c:!~;~:!n1i:\i: i VE!•;, fi"·o1n I·. he• ~) i:a ·i:n oF I :l9 r; Ll. July 6, 198il Vol XL r'ldi.n:~ ·i.n l.h::! IJni .l".r:!d ~·)Lal.:0~; , ~01.1)1': liON. MF.:MB E RS : H<c:'ar, hear! Oral Questions MR. GILBERT: Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the mE!rnber for BuJngE!O Bay d 1 Espo-i .r . MR. GILBERT: Mr '. Speaker, my question was qJcd ng L:o be for· Hw PrE:~m'i.eJ" b11l· .: ho is absent, so I tAJill ask thE! Depul:y Prc~!lrliC'!l" (Dr·.

Col.l.i.ns) i.nsl·pad. T IAJO n cl C! ~· co IJ ·1 d 1·. h 8

I) P p u i·. y P r··l;: J'Tl "i r,, r· tell mE! how many consultants hcwE• b rH! n and iH' n c 1 H' r· r:-rd .: Jy r E! t: a i rH c' cl b y the Department of Engery and by thr:! Offshor·:~ I)('!Vc:'lopiri:''l'll'. f1o<:'lr·d

h) advjse government on any matLers FH-~ r· La i. rl'L n 9 L o o r f s h o i" P cl c:· v o l o p rn n n :. ? M ~~ . S P E A K F:: R : The hon. the Minister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker I thE!re is Mr·. L.oughE!E•d and hi.'; rir·tn, <'lnd fJ)r·. Cabot: Martin, and quite off - hand I cannot recall any others but if thE•re ar'E! othE!rS I tAli 1 J. haVE! to get back to the hon. member. MR. GILBEfH: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER : A Sllpplernenl:ary, Lhe hon . UlC'! member for Burgee - Bay d'Espoir. MR. CTUlFRT : In view of that fact, I wonder I~J o 1 .1 ·1 cl 1: h (,'

I) r:! p 1 1 1'. y

I) r· C:! 1 wi. E! r· p r· o v i cl e ;~ list of all the consultants and I~)() Ill d l.lw P t' C! ITJ'i 1::! r p l" 0 v :i. d C! ;·:1 No. 69 R39')il ·

breakdown year by year? MR. LUSH: Deputy Premier . MR. GII..BF.:IH: Actually, I nol hE!rE! btll: bP. knE!W the Premier was I thoughl: he should NotAJ, IAJOttl.d U1P. Dop11ty Pr'(Hn i :~r­ ptnouide a bt"E!akdown YE!al" by year' () i- tno n i ~ ~; p a -j d 1:0 -{-_ h (:! r-:-

C) j' 10(~ r· Ptnc~m:ier of Alber·ta, Min. Loughe~C~d, and hi~; f i r'lll, :; i.nc:~ hP. 1.\Ji:"IS f i ;• :;t hjred by ~he Government of N E!I•J f o 1 1 n d l a n d a n d I . r."l b 1'' ad or·? In ol:hur' IMor·ds, IJJOIJl.d h,,, pr·ou i.de d br·eakdOIAirl y('-~ar· by year·, not segrnenl:s b1.JI: Y~"'H ' by ynar·, for· Puer·y year· :.J nc€~ t hc->.y hir·ed Mr. I. o u g h e e d ? j,,J o ul. d h e p r· o u :i. d e 1·: h a t: brea I< d OIAII'l? MR. SPEAKF:R : The han. the Minister of Health . DR. COLLINS: Min.

SpeakE!r, as it is an arE!a that I am nol.: personally direct.ly inuolued in, I will take that rc'!quest as not:c ,,d . T could po-LnL out that the hon. House Leader IAJi l. l. h a u e s orne t n f o r m a L i o n r C'! 1 a 1·:. e d to this - I am not saying all the i.nfor1nati .on bu 1: "i.nfor'ITiat i.on related to the topic - wh:ich he t.\l.i. '1. 1 g i. IJ e ·i, n A n s 1.1.H~ r' ~; 1· o q 1.1 !'! s -1-. · i. o n s . M R . G I UJ F In : 'rn u: .i ~~u..J of thE! fact :r: hc1ue had Jt on the Or•dtH' Pi'lpt'>t' ~; i nu:! l.i:tsi·. Yf~i'l.l". MR. DECKER : Mr . Speaker . M I~ . S P 1:: A K E R : TilE! hon .

LhE! rnernbE!r' for thE! Str·ait. of BE!l.J.u TslE!. MR. DF.:CKF.:R : Min. Spc,~aker, my ques t'ion is aJ.so 1.3955 July 6, '19il8 IJo 1 X I. for i·.he han. +.:he Dc~!JJU t:y Prc->.rrric~!r . ThE! Deputy Prt:!rrd .er wiJ.J know the Prernter has been tryjng to defJ.ect from the main issue of this Loughc,~ed affclJ.r ~:h(:! Jna·i.n issue being how much money has been pajd to l·:lrLs gc,~ntJ.c,~man. Tl'l f'! Pn ~H n:.i.E'!r talks about fiscal years and caJ.endar years and oF that foolishness. ~vi .ll. ·i:h,,, Dep111.y Pr'crn :i.er· Lel.J. l:he H o u s e s p E:' c :if i c ct J.

J. y 1·1 o IAJ m u c h m o I'H:. y N,,,I;Jfoundldnd has paid l.he legal fj nn BE!l'lllE!tt. Jones of Ca1gcH'Y :; i. n c 1·:. No \J r:. rn b Hi" l! , I. 9 r, ri , f:. ·j_ 1. he i" by lJ.Jay of special t.~.Jart~ants, directly F r· o lfl l":l·w D P. p a 1'' I,IW:! n 1: o P' F ..i. n a n c n , ·through the PetrolE:~um D:ir'E!ctor·ate, or· d n y IA!i:-1. y 1.1.J h a I: s o e l.J c-:! r? lr1.l h a 1-. .. i :; the bottom line? How rnuch ha s Mr. l.ougheed 1 :; f i ;·,n cos 1·: Nei.~.Jfoundland since the eue of Bonfire Night, 1.985? MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the PrE!sidE!nt of thE! Counci.l.. MR '. SIMMS : Mr.

Speaker, since rnernbers al"E! J.nsi.si·:E!ni : on i·.:r·y:i.ng l·.o gE!t. l:he inforrnali .on nOIAJ as oppoSE!cl lo IAJa-i.l:·i ng For Ansi~H~!r's l·o qiiC'>S t"i .ons, when the~! PrE•mier did takE! as no 1: .i. c :~ a q II!'~ s l.:i. on r' E:' l a l:: E'! d l: o s 'i.t'l c C.:! by the mE!mbE:'r for St. Bat"be (Mr·. f 1 H' e y ) , J 1r1 a y i'l s IAJt:. 11 . I r' y l: o pr·ouidE:~ t:hE:' Jnforrnat:ion not..o.J so you do no 1: ~~~a~; J:c,' yo1H' L"i lflC! dur, -i ng QuE:.stion Pc,H':i od. Mr·.

Speaker', fi1nst of al1 :!.t sho11-lcl b:~ po ·inl-.1:.d oul·. ur:!l"Y c'l.~:!r:H··l.y thal: t.hE'J"e 1.1.Jas an irnpJ:i.cati.on in Uw l"lf:!L\Jsp;;q:lt=:!l r·npor ·t, j_n The Evening Telegram, or COIIr'~>f:!, -Ln response to a question Frorn the mE!Hlbf:.r' for ~H:. R;u·be (Ml". f-:-LIT"ey), that lhe Premier was confirming $400,000 had beE:.n pcl·.i.cJ l.:o l:.ho L.ougheE!d J.aiAJ firrn 1as l: YE!ar. OF '\lo. (j 9 R3~)~)5

l.OlH'Se, that is jnaccurate and I l.r-us i·. -1-·.hai: i-.h:~ dppr·opr· i.ah-~ Hlr.:'d i.111n lAd l] rnaio?. 'l.hat COI"I"E:1Ction. Thc"1 P r·

r) m i. or· d i d no 1-. s .:1 y o t' con f7 · i nn ·that ·that IAICJ.S t·he arnount. He ~; r.l i. d h e 1..11 o 1 1 'l. d c h ('! c k I o s 0. (·:! 1..11 h a 1-. t-:hE! amount was and took ·the q 1 1 C:! s I·. i. o n u n d o r· c:t d v · i. s E~ rn o n i: , l:ook not:) cr::1 of the question. S o I: h o q 1.1 E:' s t: ·i, o n t h a 1: l: h e rn E:Hn b e r· for the St. Barbe asked said, 11 ifth. 1. 1 1.: h E! y b e p a 'L d t: h J s y C:1 a r· anywhere near the $400,000 paid last yE:1ar?11 That i.s not cor'rE!Ct. That is incorr·ect, misleading and all. the r·esl:: of il.

T IAJi.l.J. now try to provide the information For t.hE! hon. mernbE~r, so t.hn 1-.: Hw hon. member knoiAJS full well IAJhat thE! amount. s have bE~E~ n ov (;!r' thr"1 pE! r· i.ocl of time. Fi.r·s 1: o·f aJJ., dE!dl·i ng IAJ'i.l:h I: he spE)cific question that the rriE!TnbE·r r or ~3 1·. . Bar· b t'! r a -L :; c~ d , l. ;:~. s 1: y 0. a r· t. hE! an1ou ni. that IAJas paid to the RenneU. .Jon::!~; l.i'\1,\J r i.t'lll i.n i:hr'! 1987/88 fiscal year·, which was thE! ques l: ion t-.1-w m<:!mbr-:!r' l-or· ~)I:. n,u•b:~ c~:.b~d, was $~-"'>:1,804.11..

So it l.o~.Jas no l: $'1-00, 000 l d ~; ·1·. y e:1 ;u·, ·i. 1: 1.1.1a ~; $Sl ,804.11 to the law firm. fn 1.9136/B'/, a rnai.i·(:!l" wiTi.ch has a]I"E!ady bE!C.;!I1 ruade public I t.hjnk, t:hro11gh !·:he Fsi:iwates Comrn"ll:tr'!E!S .. MR. GILBERT: Was !:.hat. to Pr'E!Hd.E!r' l..oughE!C'!d as well or just his law firm? MR. SIMMS: The question reJated to thE• Bennett Jones law firm. thE! amount paid then !Alas $291,905.53. So LhrE:!e fi.sci'\l year·s ago, 1986/137, this year·, 1.988/89, hds al.r'C!ddy br:!C:!n <·,nslo~Jerr~d by the Premier.

There has been 1'10 I'Ho' paid 1::0 l.: h 8 l. diAl F i.r'lll ·1: 0 U'l'i. •; po:-.int in time, al!-.:hough lo~JP do I 'l <J ')(i .Tilly (i, 19[)1) V <'~ ·1 X I expE:1Ct thei"C-:> wiLl. bE• s ornE! f:'XFJC!I'ld·i. i:IIY'I~S for· l·h is f i.s cal. YE'!i:lr. DR. COI .. LII\JS: He wants to know about last year. MR. SIMMS: I. a ~; 1: y C:! ;u· , l 9 il '7 I B 3 , $ S l , il 0 'I· . :1. 1. • MR. GILBERT: To l::hE:1 l.aio~J f·"i.rm? 0 MR. SIMMS: To thE! law firm. AN HON. MEMBER: What was the previous year? MR. STMMS: The previous year, $291,905.53. rhis year, 1986/87, none l~o date. 1.1\l i.

I: h r· r,, s p n c-1 . t o M r· . I . o 1.1 g h E'! H cl himSE!lf, his consult:in~J feE:• T think L1Jas i:h<:! oi.:heJ" par·l: of l:he question, was it? Or was it not? MB. DrCI<ER: The 1: o 1-. a l. , -1-h e b o 1-.1.·. om 1 'i. n e . Mf~. SIMMS: WE:!}]. I just gr.lUE~ it l·:o h-.ii'TI. He CfHl add i.i-. 11p, T din SIH'<:!. MR. DECI<ER: HOIAJ rnuch sala.r·y? MR. SH'IMS: Hr~ just sa'Ld hE! ·is not ask'i.ng Mr. Lougheed1s consultin~1 fN•. 'i.s not··. rE!l.dt:ed. So I hopE! that an SIAIEH'S qi.I('!S ~.:ton. MR. DECI<ER: A supp1<'!1Tll-'!nl::ary, Mr·. :3pC'!ak<:!r. MR.

SPEAI<ER: for· It the A supplE:'ITI~~ntai"Y, thE:! hon. l::hr:! In r~ In b C:! r· F 0 r· i ·. h E! s 1--. r· a ·i I: 0 r B ('! ll. E! Isle. ~Jc::. <i<J f~39~:)()

MR. DECI<F.f~: The->. rni ni. s l:r:'r is s ay -i. ng he pa i.d I: he firrn $350,000 total, lAlhich does not explai.n the Special Warrant for $400,000, which we haue a copy of thE!rt:~. NOLil a supplt:~mc;!nt.:ary +.:o i:.hC"! Dc~~puty PrE!JTiier, or the House Leader, [)JhOE1Vt:~r MR. STI'-iMS: CouJd I see a copy of !:he Special ~~a r' r· an 1-. l.: h (~ h on . rncmi:H"! r· i. s l"t=!fl':~lnlnj ng to? flllR. llrCKFR : Y c~~ :; . i. 1-. i. :; h c: r· e . Not~l l:hal: l:h(~ Cou(~i''nlnenl·. llow;c i..E'cH:l"er has attempted to giue us a r·.i.giJt'e as l.O hot~J flllldl IA.IC:! halJG paid Ml".

Lougheed's f:i rrn, wilJ. the liOIJSP. l.ei'I<"IC::r· no1~1 i:el.l. l:he pHop"le of Net.o~.rfoundland t.uhat tht:~ LougheE:'d f"i.r-rn has dorH "! For· l)1.i.s $3')0. 000? [I put in brackets: Plus $400,000, whatever the Special. War·rant was.] What has the firm done to earn thi.s money? Tn other words, wi1J the House Le:ader table t.ht:1 statemc;:nts t:hat I~JE:r'e subrni.th~d by the firm, statemE:nts which should oul~.l.i.nE: thE: IAlor·k I~.Jhi .ch 1.~1as per·formE:d? MR. SPFAKER: ThE: hon . thE: President of the Cou n ci .l. MR. SIMMS : Cel"ta:i nJ.y, Ml". SpE:1akc->.r'.

I t·hink i.l-. has buf=:n sai .d i.n th·i .s l·loiJ:;r =• on nuruerous occasjons that ·this p~H'l.: i.CIIl.dt ' l.i'\IJ.J 1- j i''lfl ·j ::; l"~ :!I;O'::)rl'i %f~d cAS i.~.11 expet"t: -.:in l~.hP fi .c~~ld with r· f~ :; p (' c I ; ~ () !) f r :; h CH' (! () i l negot.icd ~ions, r.lnd has buiJ-t: up q 1 1 i. I. c d r· C! p 111·. a l · ... i. n n i n U1 .:1 1-. 1"<"9CI.I"d. They CE:t"t.d~inly iH'c~' onE:' of i~hc.:: l:op i.n the:~ co11nl~r·y. l'"her·c .i.s no question about it. 1_3957 July 6, '!.9BH Vo-l. X 1. DR. COLLINS: o·i.J. n E: got i. a l: i. on s g P n c.:: r· a 11 y . MR. SU·1MS: GenE!lnally .

But they deal lAd th uery spt:1Ci.fic rnat::tE:~rs such as those types of things that we IAJO Ul. d b (:1 ·i. n V 0 l. l.J E! d I~J-i. t h \).J"i t·. h respE!Ct to HtbE:'rnia . For· examplE:: royal.1-.y r·egimes arE:1 vE:ry technical, complex issues and mal~h ::r·s, ye1 ·. l~hi.:; pi'lri..""i.cul.ar· f··i.r'JTl is noted as a firm that has a ~;tr·ong r·r~p1Ji.:al~ion ·in l·.h~·'d :: cH'(=:i:J.. So l can telJ you those at"E: t.hE=! k i.nd o( l:h·i .ng s l:hai· . l:hr :: l.aiAl f-i .l"lfl alnl':' jnuoluc->.d in, and hauE~ beE=•n, as you can :; f:: :~ , for· a 1". lea::; 1·. ·1-. he l. ;:;,_ s 1:~ three YE!ar·s.

One of thE:SE:' days, i.f I)J0. <'ll'f~ for•l·_I.IJV~I~e (;!J'lOIJgh 1.0 lAJOr 'k out: something that is satisfactory ·i.n i·.e r'lflS of an a1"r'~tnge1nen l·., i·.~h,:on the hon . memb er will be able to ~;r::P., and IAJ··i.J.l . 11ndE:r·s ta nd a 1 ·-Lf"~l .-.le cJ.earer, ·the complexi·U.E:s of IAihat i. s -.i. n u o 1 v c-:! d h H r· c: . · r hi . s l. a IJ.J F ··i r· rn clearly has a uery, uery strong r E:~ p u La t i. o n j_ n C i'l n ,''J. d a -· a n cl throughout the world, I und< :1rstand, b11l: CE:rta~i.n1y "'ln Canada - as being a fir·rn that j s E:~ x 1:. r· em r"• l. y q u a 1 i. f -.i. e d , d n d C": x t r' E: rn c~ 1 y reputable ·in dE:aJ.ing Lil ith the compl.E:~xi.li.E:s oF l.~h:i s ld.nd of a topic, royalty regimes and other maLhH'S of thai~. nat.:ur'Co!.

May I just. say, by tl'lE! IAlay, LIJhtlE· :r. h a IJ e i·: h r~' ·r:-1 o o r· , IAr·i. 1· h r' c;! s p H c L l:. o the warrant. they are referring to, of c; o 11 r· ~; e , L h ·i. ~; IJ.Ja r· r' <~ n i": h r: r P. for $400,000 is not necessc.u·Ll.y all F" or· l" h a L p d i" t ·i .: 111 a r· i. L n rn . n s a rnaH:er· of fact, ~if hE! r·ead it he 1.110 11l . d :; r: r-:: I :l-11': r· r-=: lAid~=; a l·T iHl s F c=: r· f o ~~ a spE~ci .fjc amount of ~t>2SO,OOO. Th;~l .

I)Jd:; UH:' ;:~rnoiJnl-., l.ll"lcl::.r· !":.hE: IA.Iar·rant, that t.~Jas r·equired fo1~ the ldiJ.J (·ir'III, ·l·ht-:• ol:h:::r' llli:ll~l-.C:!t'!;, MR. WELI. .S: The $250,000 was already there? No . \i 9 !~ 3')')7

MR. SIMMS: No . I hE! a p p r' o

t) a J. 1 ... hal: h r.u:l b P c~ n gj ven at the timE! was for' up to $4-00,000 depf.!nd i 1'1-9 on t~Jha l UJ(,~ amount t;.Jas go ::i ng to be. At the 1.: i.1nc~ IAH~ I;.JP.Y'e looking for' ·- MR. STMMOI\J:J : A bJ ani< chequE:~ . Ml~. ~3 f.MM~): Not a blank cheque, aJ.though you can cr.dl. i.L r.1 bJ.ank cheq1w ot" whatever· you wish to call it. At thE! ti .Hte IAJE! di .d not. kl'lOIAl IAJhaJ: thE! amounts would be but we had a rough i.dea, and thE! e;!sr:.'i.rnr.l ·h,~s might have been up to $400,000.

As it tt.H'n~:!d out thai~. t;.Jas nol: th.:~ case, in fact, it tAJas considE!rabJ.y less, so only $250,000 of that warrant was applied to the law firm . MR. DECKER : Mr . Speaker . MR . SPFAKFI~ : A f:inaJ. supp]E!ITI~~nt.at"y, thE:~ hon. the,, me1nb~=!t' For' UlE! :JI-.r-a i.t oF Bc:!ll P. JsJ~~-!VlR. OECI<F.R : ~) OITIC~I;.Jh f.! t' l:~ l.hat :.antE! <.~ ~;-1: t' i'l y I M t' . $200,000 year is Speaker . biJdgP.lr:'cJ ·in after gojng ThP. Covennnent House l.e<'1cler', Mr' .

S p e,~ c:tl< E~ 1~ , tAlf..l s n o t 1 i s t e n i n g l o my p r· C::! v t o 1 1 s q 1.1 f! s i -j o n , b r~ c a w; (:! h E' cl i. d not say tAJhethE:'I" OJ" not he tAJ'i.ll 1.·. a b l e~ thE! s L d L r~ rne'! 1'1 +: s , as r: as k C:! cJ . Ht:: : said, 1 Certainly, 1 but does 1-. h a l tn e'! i'Hl h e IAJi l l. l: a b l e L:l·w statements backing up what the fl.r·rn d 'i.d? That IAJi''s I: hE! pr'PVi.ous qu~~stion. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! Mr~. DECKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . 1 3 9 sn Jllly (), 1913il 1.J1:l X 1.. When thE!

House LeadE!Y' is tabJ.j_ng l·.he sl:aLr,HnE:~nl .. s, IJ.J i.lJ. h0 also t.abl.l'". for this House the job description o ( M t' . I o 1.1 g h C'! e d ? fl C! c d u s P. t: h E! PI"E!Vious Mini.s te r of FinancE:! (DI". Col.l.·i .w;) !;.:dd ·lhal. hu I~Jc)S noi.: hirc:~d I:H:!caust:1 hE>. was a Jc:w.Jyer ·, hE:! ~~Ji:l:; h·i.r·od fot" ol ·.h1-:!l" t'E:!a!;ons . WiJ 1 th~~ hon. thE! De:~puty Pr-~ :!rn:i.E!t', o r' l: h H 1-1 o 1 1 !) r~ I . c~ a d o r· , o r' t h P Premier, or someone tell the people of NC'!I~JfOIItlciJ.c'lnd j11si'. I~Jhal :. are we paying this hon. gen'l:lE!man F o r· ?

T s i t b e c cl u s F.! h C:! i. s n o t. a lawyer? Is it becauSE! hE! is an o i 1 -=~ x p ~=· r 1:? 0 r i. s ·i. t. b E:1 c 1'·11.1 s E=! h l'! is a formPr Tory friend of the p r' e,~ s e;! n t Pre,' mi. P r? MR. CALLAN: Neither one . MR. SPEAKER : HH~ hon. Coundl. l: h r:1 President of the Ml~. SIMMS : WE!ll, Mr. SpeakE:'!", the qUE!Stion is r· c~ a l. l. y l o "'d F.! rJ p o l. i. 1:. ·i. c a l. l y F o r· obvious reasons, and we all ;--:~l:ogn'i.z.t,' t'Jhdi ·. l·.ho~;~:! t't:!i: 't:.;ons ar· ·e.

Ever-ybody r'E!Cognizes t.hat: Petr:•l" 1.. o 1 1 g I· H) (·:: d · i s d v e r' y r' e p 1 1 i: a b l e individual, is a very reputable ldt.\JYE!t', ·i!:; <::t v( -:!t'Y r'nptll.:,:~b-l .e:! o -iJ expert, and has considerable ·i rrl-'l11enct0! ·in 1.1-H:! o.i."' ·j ndus l:r·y. The:~ fac l: that hE! happli:'ns to be a ror'tnE•r' conser'Vi:1i:·i tH=! Pr',~twi l'H' ·i.s no I:. rE:~lated hE!rt~ . IL is not r·elatE•d i'l l a 1 l . : I :~ ·i. s r' e p 1 1 t: a b 1 n .

H e d o e s have influence He has connecl:ions beyond anybody 1 s wi J de s t d reams , and i s v e r y , v e r y helpful l .. o tJs ·i.n dE!a] ing tAJ:i.t:h l':his particular very compJPx problem. ()ncl so T can assur-e the reason he was consultant . With rE•SpE!Ct to No iig h·i1n l·hat. hir'l:~d as ; C' ,\ .... a thE:! origtnal 1~3 9 !_) ll

question about statements, I am 11 o t q ~~ i. L E! sur· e IAJh F.l. i: ~w rne an s , b 11 i: :if hE:' wants me ·l:.o I couJ.d provide hi.rn l.o.Ji.t:h a IAJr'i.l:·.l::c:!n clescrJpLi.on of t.uhat the firm does and what kind 0 f IAJO r k i. 1.: i. S i. 11 V 0 l. V 9 d IAJ'.i. t h 1 IAJ h a t kind of work Mr. Lougheed wouJ.d bE:~ involved with i.n a general way. I mean, I cannot give him specifics, if he picks up the telephone to call the pr'E!Sident of one of thE:~ m a i. n o i. 1 c o rn p a n t e s , I am rio t g o i. n g to mention that kind of stuff. MR. BAKFR : We paid hjrn $350,000.

MR. ~~IMMS: ~,Jt:! p cl i. d h i ~; f i. t' If) • MR. DFCI<FR: Civ~ ~ lJ~; the:' statemPnl:. What lAJas U: for·? l'h.'\1: i.:; i·ll.l T IAJanl . l.o k II Ol.U. MR. SIMMS : ~~<:! 1.o.r.i.l.l. p r· o 'F:i. cl e l: h r:~ 1~d t. h a n E:! x p J. an a ·t: i o n ex pe ndi. +:11 r·c:! was for· . no pro~lem at all, Mr. hon . mPiflbE!t ' of what the rlbsolui".E!l.y, SpeakE!r. If ·t.hat is all he t.uan ts, he couJ.d h a v e a s k E! d for· t h a i:: i n 1 9 8 6- 1. 9 8 7 , three years ago. No probJ.em. MR. K. AYLWARD : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han . .the mernbE!r for· Stephenvil .l.e . MR. K. AYI.WARD : Mr·.

SpC:'ah'ln, I have a pl"obl r::'m for 1-hr-~ M".i.ni.:;l.cn · of l.dbOIJt' (!I'll". R J c:-1 n c h a r· d ) , a 1·1 d i ·t c o n c E! r n s a number · of C:OIIlpl.ai.nl.:; i:hal : l·l.-'llH! be~' 1 1 r· e g :i s t. C:~ ln e d to h :is de pal" t· rn E! n t. 1; on c: c-) r· n i. n 9 1·. h c-) L ,., b o 11 r' ~) i .• ·1 n cl <·1 r· d ~; nJ.vlston. I~E~con ·t1y I·H:! IAJ d :; 1.39S9 thE:' ru:in.is"LE!l" statc:~d t.hat:. go·i n•::J to ca ·u for· ,''tl'l July 6, 1.988 Vol XL C:'nquir'Y by his Dc~!puty Minister l:o check out Uwse complaints +::hat have beE!n r·e:~gisterE!d, and so on.

C011ld hr~ l".t:.J-1 us IAJhat ·.: l:.hc"• rnr.;tndai-E· of this enquiry is? When does he expE!Ct th "i.s si.l:uat::ion is gcd .11g to be rE!SoJ.ved? CouJ.d he a] so teJ.1 us l)JhE:~n he i.s go'.ing l::o brJng into the House the Labour Standards RC:~lJi.PlAJ rE:!por 1.: +:~1a 1:. IAJas done Ll•JO years ago? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the:~ M:inis l:.er of Labour· . MR. RLANCHARD: i"lr'. Spco!r:-:tk~:~r·, J IAJ<:'tnl: l".o thr'lnk Lhe hon. m~::~rnbc:~l" fo1" hj s quE·s l: . .i.on. He r· (') f r-~ r' ~> l. o a n H n q wi.r· y , b u 1". T l.: lri n k IAJher(! the:~ ~HICjU:iry COITlC:~S fi"Ofll :i.~> fH:O i"' h ,:

C) p S ~;; ()Ill C! r' i"' 1: h c-:• )'' 1.1 I'll I ::; I I d :J k "i. r1 cl of reporting by The Sunday Express I l·.alked lo ,J r'(!por·Lc"!r frorn The Sunday Express and I 1·.o:l.d hc:~r· T IAJ.:'l~; go ·i ng to ask rny Deputy Minister t.o do an :i ntE!r·naJ. exam:i.nr:l\::i on, nr· l:hco! IAJOr'd 1 EHlCJUir·y 1 ITlight haVE! bE!E!n USE!cl, to C:'nCJUi.I"E:• i n t o L h r:. t n c i cl E! n 1.: ~=; o F cl E'! l a y i n 1:. o complaints under The Labour ~3 1:. an cl d r· d s A c: l·. .

T. h r:-1 d i. n f d c l: asked my Dr:~puty Mini .stE!r by Uwn to look over the records, to check with the Cabour Standards offi.cc"!r's. Sj ncl:! 1·.hE! r·c:~portE!r TTIE:1 n t i 0 I'W d IAJO uJ d IAJa it i. n g a y E! al'.. b E• acCE!ptablc:! to me, T. sa:i.d no, not at all. As a matter of Fact, IAJa.il":i .ng s:i .x 1nonl .. h~; IAJoul.d noi ·: bE! accE!ptable to ITIE!. My Deputy has J.ooked :i.ni".o ·it, Mr·. Spc:~aker·, i:'lnd a report is in the making. As a rn d l.: h~ I" 0 r f i'l c j . T ~; r'11AJ s 0 II) (;• r· 0 l.l g h notes on it today.

W :i ·t. h r· e s p ~~ c t 1.: o t_ h E' s e c o n d p a I" t of 1: h l'! h u n rn e 111 b f! r· 1 ~; q 1 1 c,' ~-' i: j_ o n , IAJ h e n is {:hE:' rerna:inder· of the r·ep(H'l. of i-.1-lt:! l .• li:H)IH' ~H.r'Hldr'tt·d:; RrhH'd go ·j ng t:o be announCE!d, jus ·l:. as soon as po:;:;-i bll'!. r I. -j :; d :;oUI"Cl'! or concern to rne that it has not been r'Hll'l 0 I J i'l C (~ c:J , 1:)11 1·. j U :; 1- i:l •; S {) 0 l'l i.~ ~; No. 69 R3 9 r:;g

p o s s i. b l. E! , M r' . S p E~ <'l. lw r' . MR. K. AYI.WARO : A suppJ ementary, Ml" . Speaker . MR. SPF.AKfR: () ~; 1 J p p 1 ~~me n i ·. <'l. t' y , Uw h o n . i".hH rn ~HII b e I" f o I" ~i t e p h ~~ n v i J J e . MR . I<. 11YLWARD : Co11l.d i·hr~ ln ·i.ni.~:;h:!r' .i:c)l.l. II!; l-.h.:-11·. Ol'lc:e h:i~; l18puiy MintstE:H' doE:~s an e n q II i. r-· y d n d FH' (~ p d j'' (! !) c'\ t' e fHH' 1·. r 0 t' hir11 as to this situation c o 11 c e t' n-i n g U·w L r.t b o 1.1 t' ~ L d ru:l a r' ch Di~Jls:ion, IArilJ b1ning :il: to l:he 1-1 o 1.1 s e ~; o l: h a l~ t h t:! p <~ o p 1.

f) o f t h E:~ Pro u inc r:~ IAli 11 know t. hat. thE! s e probl.\,!lnS ar'c-:! be:~ "i.ng t'()Cti. ·f·j ed? And IAlill he also telJ. us, and give us a defi.nite date, as to when he IAlill table the Labour Standards Report: that: he has? BE:~caust.~ that has been said a number of times over the,' pRs t year' i'lnd a hr3l.F and many people out t:her'e would like t o s c;! e -L t. . A l s o , d o E! s Uw r' E:! p o r' t contain any recommendations about l: h e L a b o 1.1 t' S t a n d a r' d :; 0 :i lJ i. s i o n o f which he is the minister? MR. ;.]PfAI<fR: Th( ~ hon . the 1\'J"i.n ·i.si:.c ·}t' of l,.:~bour '.

MR. RL ANCIIARD: M i' . ~ p e i'1 kc'! r· , l: o l: h t:! 1. r.-1 :; l: p iH' 1: o r:- t·.he ques t~ i on, :it contains many r· e c; tHnrn

E) n cl d i: i. on !i b 1.11 , <:~ ~; U1 <-:! h on . g "' n t l e rn <.HI k n ot.AJ s , n o t a 1 1 of :i. t h cl s been 111<~de p1.1bl i.e yr.d·.. Bul: 1-.hr'\i ·. w:i lJ be:' donE:', I CiHI as su1ne the hon . g(:!n1·.l.elnt~n, r'\:; soon i.'l ~) poss:i.bh~. And 1.uH: .h respect to i:ell. i.ng Hw House ~ 1~1hr:11 : l:he ex l.:<:! nl". of delctys ar'e, Mr . Speaker, sure, Lhi'I L is the rPa son IAlhy 1 ~sked that :it be donE! .

N\~edless to say lAJ 1·1 C'! n c o lfl p 1 C:·l ·i. n 1: s rH' E'! rrli'1 d E! , w h e n tPJ.ephorH'! conver'scd:i .ons take plaCE! between the complainant And ~ he Labour Standar'ds officE!rS, l:hat is p <:1 r· t. o f l: h e i. n v t! s t .. L g a 1· ... i o n . SpecificaJ.J.y therE:' lAJas one i.n U9 60 July 6, l988 \) o"J X I l.abrador, ·in the ce~se ~.in po .. i.nl ·:, Lo which thE• hon. member refE!r S, and 1 had thougt1i : ct 1: I: he t:.·i.rne, Mr. Speake In, that l:hE! Pxtent of l:hE:' dE! 1 a y !Jkl !; I: h r'll : l: h f! r' ::! h d d b <'! (;! 11 no contact rnadt~~.

In act:uaJ. fact. i·.hc-~1···e hdd bc ·:!<-)1'1 ~;;f;!lJ<·'•r'al i:nl.c- :!phone COI'IVBI"Sations IAJhC;!InE~in C\,!l"'l:.ain m<:1i"l .r'!r··s r'c)lai .·ing l·.o i·_IH'! conlpli'l·inl ~. were extrapolated and everything i. :; bc! ·i ng d 0 n ~~ l·.o i- d c ·i.l i. ·I ':'1. ·1: r:! i-: hi :'l t:., Min. Speaker' . MR. K. AYI..WARO: Mr. Spc~!ai<E!r . MR . SPEAI<ER: A final supplementary . MR. K. AYLWARD: T IJ..J"i . l. 1 (.·1 s k j 1.1 s t the rnj nj stE!r tel1 be tabJ.:i.ng 1-.hat. Labour Standards one lfiOI"E! .

Would U S lA! h E' 11 h E! tAJi J J t'E !pOr''c oF !::he RE•vielAJ lAJh:i ch ha s bPen ~in hi.s hands f·or· al :. lc :!ast . a y E! a r? A J. S 0, WO U J d he t E! 11 US j_ f h (! IJ.J-i.l.l. bt=:~ tabli .nq J·.he r'Hpor ·t., rE!commendations and revi~:·LI.J of ·rhe ~~ o r' k E'! t' s 1 C o HJ p c:! n s d l:: i. o n A c 1·: ? A l s o , could he tell us if he is going to dppo·inl d Vice .. ·Chair'lllan r:-or ' l .. h~:! Workers 1 Compensation Appeal Tr'·i . bun ,3_ -1 ? MR. SPI:AI<E'R : I'l-l<'' hon' I. he r~in ·i :; h=!t' () f I ;::d:lOIH '. MR.

BI...ANCHA_RD : The ansiAJer' to the last·: par't of t··h<:! q I I f! ~; 1: . i. 0 rJ , r~ t' , ~) p 0 i'l k e I" , y ('! •; , 1·. h E! appo:i.ntment of a Vice -Chairper son ·i:; ·in U·w rnr't! ci ng . As l.:o !~Jh('!i'l LhP report of the Workers 1 Co 111 FHHI ~; a. t i o n I.e y i. s J c·1 H. v r:! f? ('! v :i. P IAJ Committee will be tabled, I am unr'lb1 C) 1-o g:i.lJE! l:hE:' rnE~InbE '!t' any spE!Cifj c dat:E! . It is a rTJdj 0 1~ document ·:, l 20 --odd r' c;! c orrHJJC'! ncl at:. .Lon s have to be examined. I have dsked the Workers 1 Commission to do c:•xr-~CU i·.i .VE! SUirJTrliH'Y is not yr::'t donE: '.

No. 69 ColnpC'! ns a t.Lo n a sor-t.. of an fo1n ITIE', but t.h<:~l: : Obuious1y i.t ha s l·n96 o

to b~~ ]oob~d at, Ml". SpeakE:'ln, and -i_ n good t :i.we L l~ 1.1.1 i. l J. be i:'l n no 11 n c; e d . MR. GUL.LAGE : Mr. Speaker. MR. ~:>PE(.)I<FR: The~ hon. l-he mc,~lnbC'!Y' of Wah:!rfor·d l<enrnount. MR. GULLAGE: Mr . Speaker, my question is for 'Lh<'! Mi.n-i.ster· of Hous-Lng (Mr. Pe:~ach), but in his absence I will d:lr·c,~ct. it to t.he Depul::y Pr·c!ml.e:'r', or u..1homever happens to be filling .-i.n for· t:he rntn·i.s 1-:E!t'. On Mondr.1y of this week I met with Mr. Gary Santini, National t.hC!

Pr·esJclen1: HOITIE! of i.:he Buj]ders A s ~' o c i. a 1: i. o n , i'l n d 1-. h e i r· p r· i. 1 n P. concer·n, HH,~il" nun1be:~r orw pr·iori ty Ut i. ~; y ('! r.H' i. s HH:' for· i: h c o rn i. n ~ i: ax on bui]dJng ma ·ter·Ja]~~~ 3 pc:!ln ce:~n-t: i tl j 1: i. r<\ l ·1 'j d tl d (;! lJ l~ tl 1.

I I i~ l.l y d ci d C! cJ 9 pel" cen-t-, J?. pe1n cent in total, l:ht~r·E~by H~>Cr'll.dl.ing Uw pr· i.c ('! or IIOl.l~;:ing by 12 p~H' Cl~'nt n a I: i. o n i:'1 ll y . ~~J h r'l l·. h r'l s 1-h ~.-:' Provincial Government done or is p 1 i"l n n .i. n g t: o d o 1:. o -L n 1-: ::! r· u e n C:! o n this P1novince' s behalf to se:~e that this tax is held off? DR. COLLINS: Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKFf~: The hon. ·U1E:~ MinistE!r of HeaJ.th . DR. COLLTNS: --------·-··-Mr·. Speaker·, I think thE!

J.att.E!r p o -i. n ~ , t h i'l 1-. 9 p C'! r· c E! n l: r· f~ l. a 1-: E:~ d 1: o thli:~ possibility of a business '1:. r· a n s f E! r' l:. a x o t" d v a ].1 1 e <:~ d d e d l:: <'\ x br:dng bJ"ought j n. So really thE! 9 en 1: l C:! lfla n IA.Id ~' , r. g 1 1 e :; ~; , m;::~ k ·i n g a po ::int tn ca~r::~ sorrtE!th:i.ng happ~>.ns, t" e a l -1 y d h y p o t·.I-H:! 1: i, 1: al p o i n 1- . fi n d J cl.lll SUI"l~ the hor1. M::inisl:el" of F'i .rtiUlCP. (Mr·. ~\) ·i.nchOI") C•'ll"l ctdd lo lAihi'A-1.

I say on th.i.s, but in my FH'!r' ·iod ·in l.hi:\1: por··I ·.F ol ·io ~~It'! llldc:ic I 3961 July 6, 19Ba Vol X I many, many rE:~pr·E:~sentations t.o the i-e d (;! r• a l. g 0 lJ ~) r• n Ill!:> n 1. 0 lJ 0 r 1:: h E! possible imposition of a VAT in place of l:he fr:!der·al :><'llE'!S l··(:~x i:'incl the provincial . retail sah!S tax, <<~ncl 1.o~1r~ a:;k(,~d l-ot' n1t1ch tnfor·lnRI-:lon about studies they had done or IAI(-:!r'C'! conternpl.~·11.:··ing as l:.o implications and so on. ~-)o I am stJre t:hat t·.h'i.s mal ·.:t.er t.~.Ji11 go on.

I do not bE!J.ieUE! that tl'w federal government dre tnfending to bringing in the so-called phase two of Lax reform for a little 1..11hile yet. I do not know if thE!Y hr.1tJE! confi.r·1nc:!d in +:hf:. ·i.r· ot.~.Jn n1ind what form it will be. The hon. rne1nb e r· 1ni'l y t'E•rnC:~rnb c'! r' t ha 1:: -L nit i.a 1.1. y there was some thought that any !)llCh l·.iJX(! ~; ·i.f i:Jr'OIIghl · . .-i.n lAJOI.I 'lci bE• applied to food, things like hE'> .'tl .

Ut ~; t-:! r· wi c e ~; d n cl ~; o on . find thC:' fE~der·al govE:'I"nrn~~nt J at:E!r 1: h r:! p n i n 1: , u e , .. y :; p ('! c: i ·r i. c r.1 ll y , rnad E:• 1--.h.::t L: it wouJ.d not apply to L ho ~; e p.:.tr·l:·i .uJl,H' ·i.h~llh. ~30 1.1-lC!'j lildY lAWll comE! out t.~ri. Lh · · o Lher· r.~x:~rnpl·.-i.ons, as r.u· r'l~> 1-.1-t('tl:. goes, before they make up their minds. So I t:hink the qent1eman tAJ<:ls rnaki .ng a po -int and pl"!r'hdps i'l legitimate point, but at thjs s t: i.·l g e ·oi, t -L s h y p o i··. h c:! t. -i_ c i:'l l .

L'll E! a r· P making continual rE!presentati .ons over the tax reform matter. MR. GULLAGE: Mr . Speakc-)r. MR. SPEAKER: The h on . lrlf'! lrl~H '! r· f o I" lnla b:! r' f o I'' d Kenmount . MR. GUL.LAGE : Would the informed Deplti· .y and cor- r· t! ~;pond en c: c 1·. o HousE•? The othPI" lh;l! : lh( ·:! Co·\ltr'ld .i,'lt'l Association -· No. 69 Prc'IJI:.i.C:!r' per· haps d.--1 I c:• po:i n L lin Ill r-:• kc•r'!P us Labll:> ··i.n i·.hc:o rna dE:' lAJd ~; fl1 1 i. '1. d e r· s rn961

MR. SPF.AKFR: Would the hon. rn~~mber please ask hi.s qtwsti .on? MR. GULLAc;r:: : I have to have a

preamble, Mr. S p E:' d k (!• r· . r'l R . S P U~ i< F R : Th~~ hon. ITIE~TIIbeln told J.l p J e as E! a s k h i. :; q 11 r,~ !> i: -i. on or· T IAI'i.ll . r· r,~ cog n ·i :1. c·) :.or11ebody eJ sE~. MR. CUI..LAGF: J::; i:he OE!fii .JI:y Pr'C!rn i.c'!r <'WJcH'e l':ha 1: ·t he s t a n d of t h e Can ad j_ iHI H on 1 e 11u 'i. 1. cl E! r· !; A !> :; o c i. ,:~ l': · i. o n i :; l: h d '1-. govc->J"I'IfiH~nts should not bE! hoJ.ding Je~nci:; i::ll'ld shOIJJ.d bE!, i.n ri'IC:t, l:endE:~d ng lhern oul . to the private s E! c t. o r· , i n 1:. h ~~ o p ·i. n ·i. o n o f t h i'l 1'.: assoC'iation?

What is the government's opin'i.on on lands presently hE!ld by the NeuJfoundland and Lab r i'l do r· H o us ·i. n g Corp or· a t i. on that could possibly be. tendered out to the private sector? MR. SPEAKEf~ : The han . the Minister of Health. Dr~. COLLINS: Mr.

SpPakrH', l arn Sllt'e 1-.hi.ll: rnr:~ny people have different views on t h a : . . l i.: h i. n k I. h e u i. <''IJ.J 1: h a 1·: rnot:ivat. ~~s 'I hj s govcc~r·nrnE:~nt. mor·e t·:hi ~l n anyl:hing elsP ·i.s i:h.::tl: hdtJ·iny Jet.11d assf.:'rllbliE:~s he1s a benefic:ial r,~ffHci: in l.:IAJO IJ.kly!;: Onr•, ·i.t·. rn~ke~ ; l iHrd Ct.va:i J Ct.b] e, lolJI 'IC'!r'<.;!i-lS :in many y~;!iH'!; pdsi·. !>J.J'i.i:t'lbl .C;! ldnc:i ji .I!;L IJ.Id!) not ava:i1i.'1.bJE:~: ~~E:'C:ondJ.y, :it hat; :;o rne ~;oJ"!: of oi.nf"'liJ('!nc:c:! i.n ~; '1-i:.t ~d . ] :i :d n g 1 a n d pIn :i. c: E:' s .

So I H1 L n k t h ~ t :i. ~; a b r' o ~ d :; t: .:~ h~ rt1 E! n t: o f thP l"ee~sons why, fo1n qui .tE! a l'll.llflbE!r ' of YC'!iH':;, c~nc:l I 'L:hi.nk lfli::lny peopJ.E• haVE! app] audE•d this, NLHC h a tJ e b f:! C'! n ·i. n i·: o i·. h c;! 1 r.t n d "' s ~; e 1 n b l. y busirHc'SS. Ml~. GULLACE : A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker . 1:~962 July 6, '19!313 Vol XI . MR. SPF.AKER: A final supplementary . r'IR. GULLAGE: T h G o H1 E:H' c OITIITJc;! rd: rnr:·1d c~ r· c'! C('!J'l t l y by the Presidcc'ni: of th~=! NE!I;.rroundl<Hld :loJne Hu·i .ldE!t 'S A::;:;oc"i.al:.ion, r·~r.

Gary Reardon, is that presently l:h::! Y'(·)al. neod for· N(~IJ.Ifounr:IJ cHlcl iHld l .. abr'c-:tdoln Housing, lAlhich had cl pr'E~lJ'i .ous nl:~cd :i.n LIJ"bi'1n <:~r-eds, ·i :; in rur·al Nr ,,wfoundland and, c->.xc:C'!pt f"'or· i:lnd ba nk ·i.ng, :;hr)llld noL : b('! active in thl~ ITIC'll"ket in ur ·ba n ·H'E:~a!;. 1,,Jo11l cl HH:! m·i.n:i .s l':er· l ·i kc:! t.o comment on that stand taken by Lhe 1\JE!lAl'fC)IIJ'ldl .• :~nd :lorrtC::! !111 i J.ci(:!Y'S Association? MR. SPEAI<ER : T h e h o n . t h e M i n :L :; t n r· o f H ~~ a 1 1·. h . Df~. COLLINS: Mr.

SpeakE!r, I think what I should cl o i. s l ... o m d k ~=· s u r· E! t h a t NewfoundJ.and and Labrador Hou sing s~~nds l:hcc' hon. rnelnbt:!r ' Fur·t::her information, bE!cause 'thE!Y haVE! had mdny pr·ogr'i.-111'1S dnd hc1v~=! bet=:•n instrumental in putting quite a 1. iH' g E:' n 1 1 m b o r· o f h o 1 1 s (! s ·i n r· t.lr' r:<J.l. areas, especially in isolated d r· c~ , .. , !) .

I 1 · h "i. n k i .. h (:! f d c I-. i · h a 1.: t: h e y have built :in urnban ar·eas :i s ju st onE:' p t'tr' i: of :·· h t'' -j t' rn i'l n d ,~ I C! , and ·L F the han . member scrut:inizes the · i. n f o r' m d i i o n l: h i:\ i: i. ~; d v a i. J. <'1. b l. o o n NLHC, I th:ink he would be r· C.:!""!; :; 1 1 r· f! d on t h C! b d :; ·i ~; o ·F ·i 1'. MR. SIMMONS : Mr. Speaker . MR. SPFAKfR : rhe hon . UlC.:! rriC '!I(I/:J: '!t' few For ·tune - Hermitage. MR. SIMMONS: 'Th.:~nk you, Mr·. !3pE:!i.'1kE!r. I have a question for the MinJster of the Environment (Mr.

Rus se ll) relating to t~he jEd~ ruEO:l sp:L l1 clt No. (i9 :~39 6?

Goose 11ay (.):ii"POI"l, the E~st:irnat.e->.d ~; j .llo! 0 !- IAJh j C h h cl ~) lH~ 0. l"l pI'!) j !'! ci : (:) rJ tJpt~Jar·ds :.i.r1 l"ecent ddys to as rnuch el $ 13 00 I ()()() 1.-i . l:r ' l~ ~) I IH' Jrll) I' lo' l h r:Hl ,-,o,ooo bai'TE:~ls. F j I" f. t 0 f cd .J, lAJ 0 U] d t hE:~ rn i 1'1 i S t E! l" i.nd-i.c:at:(=! Lo 1-.hl:! l·loiJ ~>(o! lAJhE =!l·.hE!t' he :is saU sfied that She] l Oil, the c OJrlp<Hl y r'E! s pons ·i. b 1 . e, • had required monitoring ·L rw E! nt.or· y? MR. SPF::AI<F::R : donE! of ~: h (~ the ThE! hon. thE! Minister of Environment and Lands. MR. Rl.ISSF.U. : No, Mr. Speaker .

ThE! information that I have been given by officials, who coincidentally happr:~ned l·.o be ·i.n Goost:' 8dy ,,~Ji·lc!n the spill tAJas dis covel"ed, i l'l d ·j co::\ L e ~' I: h ,;t. L fl ('~ r' h d p !; 1: hE~ ( 0 Ill p d n y tAJet:. lll':~gJ:igPnt ·.i11 tid~; i'.ll"ei:l, ar1d tAle .::tr 'c ctlrTcn l:ly i:r ·y j ng I o gel· . rnor ·e ·.i.nfor·n1i-.l"l.:i on fr·om them. r-1 R . ~3 n-1r-1oi\J ~; : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . Ml~. SPF.AI<F.r~: (.) Sllppl .(,HfiC:'ni.<H 'Y, _l··.he hun . l.hP. rn e m b e r· f o r· F o r· t u n l"'! H e nn i t a g e .

MR. ~UMMONS : I b E! l. i. e V C Hw In i. n i. s 1.: C:H' tAl i."l J. b F.! atAJare that there ai"E! ·indications thal :. the~ sp ·ill. rnay have tc:·1kon place over a period of several months, possibly go .i.ng bdck as ·fr:H' as last October or NoVE:'mbE:H'. If l:haL is i.ndc:!e'!d l::he Ci:~se, can ·1-.hc:! minister indicate why the shortfall i.n inventory had not been detected earlier by the co!llpany? Mr~. SPF.Ai<FR: T~1E'! hon . t-he,~ M: .i n:i.s t·c,'r' of thE:~ FntJ 'i. r·onlnl'!nl · <·\nd l_rlnd~ ·;. Ml<. RlJ~Y)FI .I.: I 396:1 Ju]y 6, :191le VoJ. XI. M I'' .

S pea k e I" , I c a n not i n d :i. c atE! 1-:hdl : o'll: l:he fH'P. ~;n n1: l:i .rne. L~Je have. asked thern to giVE! us aJ.] l:he'dt" c om pl. -j r:1 n c 1::~ s c:-1 n d .. ~ ll 1:. h ~=! b <:1 J. a n c 'i. n g shE!E:'ts thc-?.y have donE~ on t·.hat. ThE! hon. l:hr'> rnr,~rnber' T l::hink ··is cor·,~ E:1 c t in t 1·1 i'l t j. 'l:: rna y h e1 v E:' o c c u r· J" e d <.~ :; fa r· b a c k i:'l s l. 6t s t: F d l 1 with a valve being left open . I might add, Mr. SpE!aker', the c o rn p ct n y u n 1:: "i. J. n o IAJ , o r· d c o u p l E! of days ago, L.ua s rat hE!r r'E!

J.u c tant l:o g~iVE'! u:; SOITIE! of thE! · bas·:i.c information that we were looking For and we had to threaten to subpoena thern to get :it.:. I think notJ.J i·.hE!Y havr::~ comE~ ar·ound sornet.~Jhat and I am awaiting the final f·i .gtlr'E:!::: ctnd betl.iHlCCo'S rHld SO on r=or the spill itself. MR. SIMMONS : () :; 1 1 p p ·1 r-~ 1 n E:! n ·l· . .:-t r· y , r11" . ~) p E:! a k E:! r· . Mf?. SPF(.)KFR: A final supplE!TIIE!ntary . r'l f? . ~) r: 11-if..'ION ~) : Ml".

Speake!'', I understand theJ"C'! is .:1 r·eqtl 'i.r·enloni: l·.hdl". i:ht'! rnon ·"i.l-.:OI" "i.ng be don(=! on a fa:i.1"1Y ongooi .ng b'"~; ·i~; . C011ld lhe 111i.ntst. er' i n d :i. c a t E! IAJ h e t h E! r· h :l s d E! p a l" t rn E! n l:. p eo p J. C:! h d tJ c:• "i. n t·: tJ r· n dis char · g ('! cl their obligation insofar as rnon ·i.tor·-Lng 1-.h:is "i.nV<:!ntor·y -i.s concerned? Why was it only in the l. c'1 S t. f E! IAI cl c:·1 y S 1:: h i:'l J:-. ""i. t. C d I T1 e'! i·· 0 t: I'J E• attention of the department? Is t. h i:11-:. no r· rna l.

"i. n L he c i. r· c u 1 n s '1-: ct n c E' , or was there some negligence on l·:h(:• pc:'tr·i:: of d<:!par·l ~.lnentr'1l. peop le IAJho ought to have bE · en moni taring t·. hE! s ·i. L 11 r:·1 t :i. o 1'1? :I OlAJ co u J. d l. h i. s situation have gone on so long t.td. 1: h o 1.1 l: i 1: c c>Jn:i n g 1:: o l:: h r'• minister 1 s attention? MR . SPEAKER : ThE• hon. 1-.hE• rJJ·i n i ~; i:er · of l·hp F n v i I" o n rn e n t. . No. 69 IB96 :l

MR. fWSSEI..L: Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not think il: is the responsi.bili .ty -of 1ny department to go around alJ. ouer 1: h e P r· o tJ i. n ec:~ , L h i. s s p i. 1 l , a s r unde:H·stand i{~. at:. least, lAJas in f E:~ d c,~ r· a l. j 1.1 r· ·i. s d i. c 1.: -i. o n , b d s ·i. c a l. l. y spHaki.ng, in Goose Bay -· to look R 1:. (~ i'1. c h a n d e tJ E! r· y u a l.tJ e , a n d c,~lJ!iH'ything that.. is ar·ound, to seC'! -LF i.l. i:> closed. l IAJU t 1l d l.

"i. k C·) { ... o ·i ·. h i n k l-h ~• I: I h e cowpany ::i.n question should hauE! d 0 rH:~ t h ,., 1: , r3.l l: h 0119 h o b IJ'.i. o II:; l. y l: hey d :i d not . T t hi n I< it IAJa s t h c,d r r·r~:spon~> i.b i.l i l:y l·o rio :;o. TF U·H:!y cLiscoueJ"c-~d d spill Ol" Jc,,akage OJ" IAJ hr.' l.

C! tJ r-H' p r· i. o r· L o i I· :; b t~ · i ng r·c:' pol" h~d, t h li:Hl it was th!i:' :i l" r·espon:;i.l:dl.'i.l:y to n~por'l·. iL Tarn wcdting to ge:~-t-· ct final l"E:~por·t, if yo 1.1 t~Ji .l.l., cHId i. f t h ~'!r' r~! ·i. s s ornr:: m~gli.gence on the part of the company i:.hE:n T !AJi.l.l. not ·: hesi.t:.:d:n t.o ]i:"'y charges. MR. LUSH : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAI<ER: The'! hon . thE• me1nber· for' Bonc:~ui.st.a Nor·th. MR. Mr·. I:. he (Ml". Llhil-l: ~~pE!ClkC·H', Min ·Ls i:r:H' Rl"li~tL).

I haue a question for of M11ni .c i.pal Affd i.r·s The m:inistel" :i.s r'WJcH' (;! t: h i'1. t IAJ(o! ,., d !)(:' l'rkl n y I lrli:Hl y tJIICOI'·pot"aled t-owns tn ·the Pl"oujnc(~ of J\J(.'!IAJrOIIndl .r.''ll'ld r:-tnrJ l .. :~bi''i:ldo~·, Hl•HIY Of IAih:ich have no COI'IVE=!n'ien-1:- or :;afc ~:;t.ipply of dr·-.in!dng I,<Ji'lh.'!T', dnd thE:! y i'Jl'' e n 011.J awa :i.1 · j_ n g t: he <.'HlrlOI .IrtCelnE:rtl- oF Uw 11Li n i :; i'.<'!t'' ~; p r · o g t · i.'IITI s pet l" t :i c u] a r· J y dE:' s ::i. g ned for· tin i rtcor·pot'•'' i eel ar'C!d:;.

Tht-~ lAJa ·l ei"IAJor·ks pr·ogr·arn, I bc,~lili:'UE! ti'H:! dE!FJdl"i':menl-. call:; i i· .. C r'l n l.: h c:: rn i. n i. s 1.. e r· -i. n cl "i. c .:., 1. e tAl h d 1-:. t:i1TJE:! that proglnarn wj.J] bE! dnnou n c C:!d for· l hes o 1.1 ni. n c or·por·a-1-:ud L3 9 6ll- Ju]y 6, 1988 Vol XL comrnuntl'i.es Province of Ldbrador·? MR. SPEAKER: throughout tho NewfoundJand • and The hon. the Ministe•r of Mun:icipal. (.) F r- i'1. i r' ~' . MR. BRETT: Very soon, Mr. Speaker. MR. I..USI-I: r"' r· . s p ('! r."\ k (:! r· . f"lR. SPEAKER: Thli:! hon . t.h!i:! rnE!ritbt:'r' fol" flo.nav:ista r-.J (Jr" l: h . r~r?.

LUSII : ThE:~ Sli:~ason is flE!Ople dt'l:'! aduanc'.i.ng t.1ri l:hou L and thE'!SE~ cir 'i.nk -i ng IJJa t li:' r . I l: is a u E:.' r· y s CH' i o us pr·oblr:~1n. !')o, cdn l·:ht: tn"i.n·isi :E'!Y' rtol be mort"! prHciSE! in tE·rrns of i.'l d d r· li:~ s s "i. n g t. h (:! n E: e d s of' t. h E! s r:! thousands of people throughout 1\Jewfoundl.dnd who are today awa'itjng a supply of sdfe drinking IAk'l '[:(:~ l"? MR. SPEAI<ER : T lv~ h o n . 1.:1-lE! M · i. n t s t e t' o F M u n j, c:.i. p a 1 Affairs. MR. RRETT: It should bE: clued up b~i:•for·e t.:hP r-:~ 1'1 d 0 r I: h (:! IAH:!

H k I M t' . ~) p ('! d kl=: r· . T '1-: is not exactly 1-.i.kE! thE! Jarge IAia1·t,'t' i·,nd !;t-.''tAif't ' tJol·.e Ot' l::hP firefighling uote. L.ast year rnoney For that p;:n·i·_jt;UliH' lJC::It-:! I~Ji'l~) 'i:;SIIf'!d OlJf'!f' d pel"iod of a numbel" o·F yE~iH'S, much l·i kc +:hi-.': Cdp·i l:dl Rc:•ct"i':dt :-i.on Grants, and lAJE:~ aJ"E! doing L1·1t:: s<:Hnc,' l:h·ing dgd·in l:h·i .~; yc~i."lt'. ~')o l:hc'•r'co: is a rnult:itudti:' of l·H.tl!i:' srnalJ. g r' i:l n 1-. ~; t-: h "' I·. "' t' r,~ g o i n g o 1 1 1·: d n d H <.'.1 c h indiuidual local seruice distr-ict lAd . J. l. b e d d \J ·i ~; c~ cl .

I 1·: h 'i. n k L: h co· IAJhole Lhing should bE~ donE· by l::he P 1'1 d 0 f 1·: h 0 IAI E:! E:! k . No. 69 R396t~

r"'R. Ll.l~~:1 : Ml". SpPaker·. 1'<1 R . ~~ P F:: (.) I< F I~ : (.) F ·j n r'll. ~; I I p p 1. -=~ lflf-) n h-H' y ' l Jw h [) n . t l1e ruEHnbE:~r for· RoiJavista North. MR. LUSH: Can il-w 1rri .ni .:d:t'H' ·ind·i.cr.l't·.e pr·(~c:isely tAJhat. amounts of rnoney IAri. JJ b E:~ i:\ l. J. () C d j-: t:~ d f 0 r• i: h E! S f:~ waterworks programs? There must b C::' a f i. g 1.1 r· C:~ o n t. h a 1.: I s o c i'l n t: he nrinis l:.E~In indicai:e what kinds of lrl<HH:~y these,~ peop].('! i. n th(;!s e communities will get? MR. SPEAKER : ThE~ han . the Minister of Municipal Affi'l ·i.r-s . MR. RRFTT: M r .

S p o a !< e r· I n o t 1:. h c i n rl i. lJ i. d 1 J a l. arnounts 1 because~ obviously I wou1d nol.: hr'llJE~ t.hmn. J do no!'. knOIAJ hOIAJ many r·equ est s wc·>.r'E• in I but c t,H' t 1.'1 i. n l. y HlrHl y , lfli:\1'1 y r·~:.~ q 1.1 e :; l: !; , r.\.n d cJ.J J of thE~m IAJE!I'·E:~ not appl"c:ivc~d I ob1J i.ousl y, any 1nnr·r·~ 1:hiHl for· •'1ny othE:!r · pr·ogr·aru . The arnount r'\l ,loc.~i:nd in Hw l:)lldge1·. I~Ji·\'), T t II :i 11 k I !; on 1 E:!'\~. h:) n g 1 'j I< o $ 8 0 0 , 0 0 0 . Of UJi,d. r:\HIOI.II 'll:, l i'hi.nk aboul. $3CJS,OOO IAlcAS cornrnil:ted from last. Y (! r'H ' 1 S 0 I. h i:\ L l

f) f I. I I !) appi"OX j rna t<,~ ly another· $4.00 I 000 I c:1 n d l h a l: 'l :; i: h e f i g 11 r' o I U1 .:1 1: ·i. s th~~ amount that tAJil J. be cliv:idE!d up a 1 no n g 1:. h e l. o c d l. s E! r· lJ i c E! cl i. ~; 1-'. r· ·; c t: s 110lAJ . MR. HISCOCK: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPEAKER : The hon . tho member for Eagle River. Ml~. II t:SCOCK : My qUE!stjon js to the M:i.n::lster· of Fducaf:·ion, Mr· . Sp{~r:·1.ker·, uJ .i.1:h reg~rd to school bursaries .

I :3 9 () ri .,i' tJ-IIJ (), 19:l:l \) o l X I ill. d c k T ·i c k l r~ , P ·i n ~; r·) n 1·. ' ~; A r· rn , Norman B~y and other communities in my d:i.~>1T i c 1: h;,.wr• nE!lH~i" ·.in 1-1-wi .r· histoi"Y had a st.udE!nt pass GJ"adt:' x·1 Ol' Cr·. :ulr ·) Xll. Thl:!

Hlr'l· i.n r·c,~i'lSOn is aftE!r Gl ~ade VIII, s l:.udE~nts have, ' I:O lE!i'llJ!·) iJW~>I ·) COifiHIIII'J:'i.l:::i.e~; dl'ld yo outs'.i.clc,~ to compJ.E~'l:E! tJ·,e·.:LI" c:1dl.lci'li·. -ion. (.) l.o1 : of pdl"l '!nts f"Lncl it financially difficult to ~;uppor'l: :;l:llde'!l"li-.S 1 despi.l::() th~~ bursary of $175 for students in Grade X and XI and Xli. I suppose over the history of these cormnunU~i.E's approx:i.1nat.ely 1,200 l:.o 1, SOO studE!nts have• starte~d s chao] and never finished. MR . SPEAKER: OrciE)r, pl .easE:~! MR.

HISCOCK: W i. l 1 HH :' Hd. n i. ~; l~ e'! r· u ru:IE· r· 1:. i'l k e ct review of school bursaries? We co 11l. d h ,.., v E! a con ·Fer' r:! n c e on L he Labr·ador· Coast, at Por ·t HopE! ;.;·i.lnp:;nn, r.1nd !:n··i n~ i.n Leacher··s, educationa1 specialists and commun i.l:y l.~ ·~i'tder ··; 1:o foc11s on I:: he idea of tho noe d for continuing educi :1l·.inn ''tncl l:h•'! nec!d For· exl ·.:r·a f:inanc::i .c-:~'.1 suppor·t. Mr~. SPF.AI<FR : ·rhe hon. Uw M·i n·i :;·i·.r:H' of Fd1.1c<.·d.: "i.on , MR. Ht:ARN : Mr. Speaker, I thank thE:~ hon. rrH:!lilber · for· h.:i s qi .IE!S 1:.-i on. CE:~r·tainly hE:' raiSE!

S SCliTIE! VE!r'y l.e'!gi.l: ."i. rni'll ·.f'! concer ·ns . ThE =·r·e st·.:i.ll are many isolated communities in our· Pr·ov· i.ncC:~ tJ.Jhr:!r'e s l·:.uclr:Hlt :s t~Jho attend school have perhaps had l. e s s t I·H·1 n c,~ q u a l. o p p o r· t. u n :i 1': 'i. e s "i. n the past. Certainly Ull~ough rm.lny r>.ndeetlJOIH'S lAIC :~ RI"P ·j Hlpr'OV i.n g things, certain1y transportation s y ~; 1·: (,' I il :; h r:·\ l) (~ c'l l. l. e l) -i. r:'l I·· {'' d (:1 1 0 l:. 0 F LhE' concc,1r·ns and helVE• narr'Ot..I.J (~cJ dOtAJn LI·Jt-:• ntlrni:H ~! r'::; oF ~;uch communi 'l:.:i.E:~s. i\ic, ti 9 i( :3 9 h ::,

r or· those tha-t s t i 11 exist , quitE! o fi-. e n t: h e p r· o g r· d m s tH>. e cl e d 1: o complete high school cannot be dellver·E~d proper·l.y -Ln these srnal.l communities, mainly dUE! to the n urn b <"! r· s con c E:! r· ned , so bur· sa r· y programs are offered to the st.udEHlts t.o go to l.;u·g<,~r cr,~rdTes. Th:is sometimc,ls does not tJ.Jork b e c i.~ u s e 1-. h r"! s t 1 1 d e n 1··. s r.-1 r· E! v e r· y young and quite oft en they giv~! up .:'ltld go .bdck holrttcl. Und.oubi·.Pr:ily that is or1e of HlP 1neasons tJ.Jhy t.ue h d \) ~) ~lt:Hf d 1 OI.U S II C C c:! :> :; t' c'l 1-.

E! i. tl ruany comnlunitjes . WE:1 ar·e v<,11"Y much clt~Jan:! of H1<-1{· ~~J r;! h ''' lJ e ·i. n c t' e ;., ~;

r) d 1-. h r"! b 11 r· :; .:-1 t' ·i E):; ·i n r·c·'CC'lnl. yE~ar·~; to IH:'J.p out, in fr.u:i., in r:rec:l s E•d 'L hr:!lll t t' r"!nlf! nciou ~; l.y 1-.o IIE :!l~l pai"E:1nt:s financ:t-'! students 9 o i n 9 o 11 ~: :; i cl e , b u t I:H:• ·L: IAJ e

t) n o u t' 11 :i. s t CJ. n c 1':1 F. cJ 1.1 c a t i o n P r· o g r a rn s a n d a t'(;!lri.Hbl of !:he I;Jhol .e Sf.' 1- 11p d:; i 1: affects srr~r.AJ]er comn1un:itiE!S, hopeF11l.l.y t.1.Je cc1n clddr·e~~~; positively many of the concerns t'c'\ i.sed by Lh<,l lrt(~lrtbt~r·. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! ThE:1 titTlE! for Or·al Questions has elapsPd. MR. Tl.li..K: Ml". SpE!aker·, on a point of p r· ·i. lJ i. l. (~ g P . MR. SPf~AKF:i~ : A po:i.1tt· of pr·:ivt1egE:1, th~1 hon. t.he IIH;!HII:H:! t' F 0 t' F 0 9 0 . r~R.

TUii< : M r· . ~.i p e a k e I'· , T h a v e t o b r' i n g u p a poi .nl: of pr·:i.wi.lc-cgr;! ;:('{ i··he r·ir ·~;l· . oppo1··tur1:i -t- y and I IAJanl~. to br:j rtg it i.n i''E:'l.i'!l-.iun In <:·1 l'llltrtber· of" 1:-dch; lAJh:i ch hdVE:! bE~en put' I:H~fo1"e th:i ~; : I o 1.1 ~; e . T L h d :; ~:tc'.lteniE!I'I·t tl'ldi:: P r· e 1 n i e l" o f i: h i. ~; 6, 1987 :in I"E:!ply i o rl o t~r i 1: h Hw l!la s ~~ :.i u C'l n by t he P r· o lJ · i n c <:' o n M d r· c h to a question -· 1.3966 July 6, l'-lllB Vol X 1. AN HON. MEMBER: Is this ~he earliest opportunity? MR.

TULK: Yes, and it is background fflc:'ll·:pr'i .Rl, Mr•. ~1p<,1ak<H'. T.t: t~.Jas ,~n answer to a question by the former rn C'! rn b C:1 r F o t' W ·j, n d s or· ·· fl u c h a n s , f\·11" . Flight, on Ma1nch 6, 1987, Hansc-u·d I~J"i.l.l. clei:·lr'l.y sho1.o~1 'i.l··., :i.n t.o~Jh-i <:l ·1 he asks a question of the Premier c 0 n r: E:' i'' n ·j n g r"'lt' . I.

t) II g h (' E! d ' and 1.: h ('! PrerniE:'r makes thE! reply, 11 It is no l Mr·. l..ollg .i·lePd U·wl: 1-h<:· $400,000 has gonE! to . 11 I t.o~Jo u 1 d as k thE! p r· (! ~; i. de n 1·. <) r-- T j' ('! ·~ ~:; II t' 'J fl () d r· r:l 1·: 0 p d \) particular attention to th:is, - MR. SIMMS: 0 h 1 () f c () 1.1 t' ~; E! • r-~R. TUI. .I<: ·- 11 It: has go rH:! L o a ] atAJ fit" 111 of I do not no 1: kllOIAJ hot.o~J rrli.-Hl'J lo~Jho hi:=tve be EHl t.u o r k j n g o n e c o non d c an a 1 y s i s dncl 'logal op ·i.n ··ion~; for· !-:he P r· o v i n c E:' on t h E~ v a r· i o u s p r' o p o s a J. s .

" On the same day, March 6, thE! Pr'<,~lld.r:!t' -Ln r·ppl.y to c:'t quest· .ion from thE• satTtE! gen ·U ernEAn mEAdE:! thE• foll.OIAri .ng si:Rl:f:!rrtr:!nt: 11 NOL<.J, Mr'. Speaker, lE:1t ITIE! finish answer:ing U1P quE!SI :·ion I:H:!cdi.IS(;' HlE!r'e l.o~H:!r'E! tl1ree parts to thE! question, one IAJdS thi:lt. 1'-1t'. i..Oitghf:!('!d to~Jc::t:> gf:!{::ting $400,000. That is erroneous.

Thdl.: ·i.s go .. i.ng l··o l·:he fir·tn. 11 RennEd:t JonE!S j s obviousl.y t.~.Jho ho to~J.::t~; r·r:.rnr·r··i .ng t:o Thr-:! (Mr·. p r·· r-:· ~; ·i. d e n 1-. !) f T (' (:' i.'t ~;; I I (' \) n 0 d r· d S:irrtlliS) COITIE:'S in hPI"C"! and lr-:~ ·1·1~; 11~; '.!JOlJC:!r ·nnlenl: p•·dcl $/.91,000 :i. n l 9 8 6 I 8 7 to M I" . I. o ugh E· e d 1 s l c~t.~J f i )"nt 1 po:i.nt.s 11 ~) i'Hllo~ 1: I out J·:o ~) p f! r; ·i. ;.-, ··1 ~~i·1 r· r· <·1 n 1·. MR. OTNN: Jonp~;. Hr:! us Ot" says, II i.-llso liTh(:! Where is the point of privilege? MR. TULI<: No. 69 :~3966

I lAd ll g E:' t. to t. hE:! p r· i. v i.l r-~ g E:~ i n a s e c o n rl , I Jay oul thE>. facts so c r'1 n ~; e t:! I~J h r-~ L h e t' 'i. l ·. i :; p r-:i v j l. P g E:~ or· not . poi n'l of d$ SOOn r'IS thE:! Spei:1kE!r' a poinl-. oF !'1-J'i :; ~-) p 0 c i d l. ~l]iU' r· .:HJI· ·i. :; rl i·11· . E:~ d J Cl n u a J" y ?. 0 I :1 9 8 7 I a f e!AJ IAJE:! E:~ k s tHo~ r

I) r· () Uw p r· Prfl i l'! r· Ilk\ de rri :; ~:h.'l·temerd .. 11 0r·dE!rE:H~ that. appl"ovaJ be g i lJ en f o t' i-Hl (! x pend :i. i: 11 r· o o f $4 -00 1 000 for· the ser·viCE:!S of thE! l. E:~ g <" l. f -i_ t'Hl 8 C'! nne 'l: 1: Jon e :; of Cctlgal"Y. 11 Mr· . SpeakE:'I'', my point is this !·louse he\<:> bc'!C'!tl 111i.slt~d '~i.t.:hE!r' on March 6 1 1987 or it is being HJi .sl.ed today by thE:~ Pr'E!s -i.df~nt of Trc'!asury Board. Mr·. Speaker I I understand the hon. gen U .c;!lfk\rl IAJclrll': -i. ng i':o cu·l: dOIAJn on 'L.ht1 figur·es he is paying to l .. c)llgheE:~d I

h) Hw for'rn(H' Tor·y Premier of Alberta; I understand i. t IAJO 1.11 d C II'\: ci (JIAlrl 0 n 1: hE! E!l'llbarJ"a ~; s n1ent of the arnou nl of 1110 n e y L h i :; g u lJ e r· nnw n L h <'I:' l. '~' i d o 11 L . M I" ' ::) p () c'\ !Uc.H' ' Ul (! p

C) i n {: () f Pl" ::i v:i J Co~9E! l~; s:ir11pJ.y this: I bel ictJe ~>o1nebor!y h• ·1~ ; rlel .-i.ber'i·11:e l. y rn:i ~; J ~'iii cl l. h j ~: I: o us e , c"~ j l h c~ r· t-hE:~ fll"e ~; 'i.cl(!n 1. oF Tt'l:!;J.~;IIt'Y 13o.u ·d I becau~:e I do not bel~ieve~ hE:! Ci'l.l'l h i'IU e ~d . ~; F d c 1-. :; 111' i. x e d 1 1 p · i. n U1 <:l l: I" c-1 g a I" d I o I" t h c~ P r· E! rn :i E:11" of t. h i s P r· o lJ .i. n 1: c . MR. SPF~AKFf~ : Ordt::>J", please"!! MR. TUL.K: I SdY t.hat. t:hdt. .is E~nough. Indeed, he has the correct information . MR .

SPEAKER: Order, please! not good to giue us ThE! hon. rrHmJbr:~r· !<rJOIAJ:; ful.l. IAH:· ·u. he cannc1t accuSE:! an hon. rnE>rnbE:·r· of u 9 (j 'I J11 l. ~ 6, 19Bf3 Uo ·1 X 1.. deliberate1y misleading the House · ;u1d i~h·i •; ·i :> I~Jha 1: U1u hon . m~~rnber· sa id. I would ask him to withdraw ·i.l:. MR. SIMMONS: 1\Jo, on i:'l po Ln ·l: of pr··i tJ :i. J. E!g e you can. MR. TULI<: r-1 t' ' ~3 fH-~ i~l b :! i" I r r'llfl I lkl !ci . n g (:) p 0 :i. n t of privilE:'gP 'Lhcd: I beli evE:' Uli .'lt the hon. gc'!tll: .J E:'lfli.Hl or· SOJfl('!body h<~s dc;!liberatE!ly mJsh~d this 1-lousE:!.

I ~~Jot .!J.cl sdy l:o YOIIt' i·lonour· Lhi:'li-. under a point of privilege, if y o u r· H o n o 1 1 r· f -L n d s 1 .. h i:'l 1:. t h r:! t' E~ .i s n o prirna facie cclse I thE1n I IAJould say to Your· Honom· 1 would pr·obabl.y have to wi thdr·atAJ it . But undE!r a point of privilege, certainly I can say it. It is the bas:is of my p o i. n 1: o f p r· -L lJ 'i. 1. e g f:' , 1:. h '-'' t t.: h (;! h o n . gentleman, through making the s t c\ 1:. E! rrH:! n t. h o h H ~' !Tid cl f:• l:: o d cl y , 1-. h d l:: in 1986/87 thE:' govE:~rnmE!nt onJ.y pi.'\ i. d i·. h (!

F 'i. j" rn 0 r f1 ('! n n E! 1: t.: J 0 n (~ s $291 1 000, and since the Premier lllc:'\dl ·~ t:h( :! ~;r:\rne ~>l.:dt .~:!lil:'!l'll -. Sdy .. i.ng that in 1986/87 they pi:1id c!;/[.00,000, •;otllt'!bocly hc .~S dE:'J.ibE~Jnatc ,~1y rn:i ~;J.c~d th:is !·lousE:!. l can :;nc-:! nol : ol :hf!t' r·e;'\!>On for· !AJI'l r:<d: is happening. That: :is thE! bet so:is !) r HI y p r· i. lJ ·j l c~ 9 e . AN HON. MFMRFR : (InaudibJ.e) . MR . TLJLI<: T h E:~ S p e d k F' r· d o c=! s n o 1:. h d u e t. o lj si:en l:o thE:~ hon. gE:'ntJ.ernan.

ThE~ 1: r· I I t-: h () f I: h (! rn c'l t +: (o' r· i. s 1:: h a t 1:: h e hon. gE!ntlernan wouJ.d likE! for· th( ;! SpC'!dkc:!r' t.o l."i.sl-.:en Lo hi1n so thdt hE:' could sweE•p this undE!r l:hE! I"U9 I S 0 t h d J:: h (:' C 0 Ill. ci S IAH '• E' p 1:' h .l S h U g E' expenditure of God knows how much, Jflc'\Ybe '1;600 1 000 or· $'700,000, undf=!r' the r·ug. r1R. SPEAKER : O!"dCoH', p1co~a~;E!! i\1 (J (j 9 ~~ 3 9 () 'I

MR . SIMMS: Ar ·e yo11 f·i nisl·wd now? MR. TULK: Yes, I am finished . Ml~. SlMW3: -------··-Mr. Speaker·. MR. SPFAKER: The hon. the Council. Pr·c~si c:IE:~nt of MR. SIMMS: I thought UH:~ hon. member· go-i.ng to g o o n f n t' C'! IJ e r· • ~3pE:!ake1", ll- :.Pern~~d l::ikc. 1'.: h Co' 1.1.1as ·Mr· . r:Lr·~;t of d] 1. t.1.~.Jo th:i ngs: OnE! :is 1AJ'i 1: h r· E:! !; p e c i · f: n 1·. he ~)(:! r· y ~; 1-. t' n n 9 ca~~P t·.hat thE:' hon. tnEHnber· has pu ·t: fot'IAhH'd to Lr·y i.o ~~sL.·1bl·i!;h i:1 pr·:itT1i.'l facie'! ca~;E! of br·each of pr·i.1Ji. 'le9r,~.

I t,o.JC::IIld hdlJe to Si·l.y to Your· II on our· • you w:i 1] not- h au e t: o r· t:! c c :; ~; L hE:' H o 1.1 s (! • yo 11 IAJ 'Lll n n 1·. haVE:' to spr:::nd much tiniE'! consuJ.t.:i.ng 1.1.1 i i.: h 1·: he l diAl c l. E! r· k ~; or· .:'\ n y 1-'. h i n 9 c:~J sc:: to dE!tE~r·rnine tJJhether· or not l L • • '- • :11 e r· e ·1 s (:'1 p t' -:1.1n.:·1 ,. r.1 c J. E:! c e1 :; ~~' estab1ished. MR. SIMMONS : (InaudibJe) like that: . MR. SIMMS: [ t,o.Ji.1.1 lrtd.b~ lilY (H'gumE~nt. The hon. member will not have to worry abot.lt. "Ll·.: ci!i:. e1Jl.. T t.o~J·ill rnakE:!

Jny argument in the same way as the h o n . mE! rn be t' cl i cl • i·w t•J e v c:! r· • T tAd -1 1. nol :·_ br:>. unparJiarnE~ntal"y, as the,, 1-J 0 n . 1 f1 t! I f1 b E! t' i- 0 t' ::· 0 g 0 IJJ r:~ S . Mr ·. ~:)pt::!i:'\lu :!t'; obwi .ot1~;ly l:hcl''r:! i~; no p r· i rna f i'l c :.i E~ c d s E! . This rna_ -t- l: E:• r· ·i s n 0 i · !) 0 -.i. 1 n fl 0 1'' t H n l· i.·1 !; i: 0 f 0 t"lj lc' l -. i·11 "I ·1-.11(:! I"(;>~; ·[ of tilE~ bus:inPSS of l-hE '! c: o 1111 l: r· y -"' n d H1 1-:! P r· o IJ i r11: C! 1-. o rJ C! 1'. ont-o :l t .

T l1 at . :i. ~~ a J 1 You 1" H on o u I" i. :; .:-1 ~; !< 1:'! ci [-. 0 I" I 11 lc' !) 1'1 . t·l1 f! ~~ u b ~;tan c ~'! of thE~ t•Jhel :hHr· 'l--.1-H:!I"C.:• ·L~ ; i't I 3968 Ju1y 6, 1988 r:l: ·i.·; nol: on issue.:., but. p r· ·i Tr1d F ,., ci 1-:! Vol XL case. MR. TULK: The substance is !'.:here. MR. SIMMS: Ct i.s not .. The SpE!<.·1kE:!t" 1 s I"Ol.E:: determining whether there is i.n a prima facie case is limited to deciding thE! fonnal ques Uon I not +: h Co' q 1.1 C:! s 1:. j o n of s u b s t d. n c e . ~3 o 1:: h E! h o n . me m be r i s IAJ r o n g . No toll I t h a t i !; poi. n +: n L1111i:H '! r one .

So 1.o~Ji.th respect though to lAJhal: he IAJ<:1~> l:r·y·ing to ~><'tlj <:'incl l:he foolish o1d argument he was trying to rnake ·_in l·:et'llh or l~li:1~;1: ·ing l:hE• 1--_·ilriC! oF the Hous(->., 1E!l-: mE~ just addi"E'!SS :i.'L

I) e )'' y b)'' j (! r l y . j- ·i. t' ~; {-_ 0 f i:~ -1 1. • l'k . ~3 peak e I" I you s h o u J d bE' r.w1a I" e t. hat l·.hr'.! hon. IIIC!llli:H~t'!'; oppo:; ·i.l-e hdd l".h "i.~: case alJ. pn~par'E!d, al] typed up, pi.~!)~)l)d 1)111 · r'U' ld f'l}E!t'yl:h ·ing, t'f :'c'ldy to go, no matter what the q 11 C:1 :; l: ·i on:; <.1 n cl d n !; IAJe r· :; t,o.JO r· I'! d Ul" ·i n g Question Period. Everybody knows l-. h d l: . '{ o 1.1 c d n seE:' i·: h r· o 11 g h t: he lf1 like a glass IJJindotJ.J. So that is p o :-i. n t n 1 1 rn b e t' o n c,' . Point number ttJ.JO, I have alrE!ady explained, Mr .

Speaker, the question they raised during Q 1.1 e s 1:. i. o n P e r· ~L o d F.t n d r· E~ 1 <:'t t e cl l:. o what he tried to tje into March 6, 1987, OVt:.!r' d. yedt" ago. d Y<~cH' i:~nd a ha1f ago almost now. DR. COLLINS : II e rnt g h t h d IJ o s t-1 -i. d l 9 B 6 . MR. SIMMS: 1987, I bel :ievE:' hE:' said. IL Lt.Jas 1.9137. ~;o i I I)Ji1S OlJI'.'t ' .-'\ yr::!dr' ago, :it js obv :iously not sorn~~th:ing Lhat­ :i. ~; IJ (e r· y c 11 r· r· en l· i:'lll d u e r· y l o p ·i. c ;::1 l .

Thc:!y sE~E~rn to ·lhJnk :it :is . 'lhE:'Y .-~ r·· e I t' y · i n rj i . o g e n e , .. r·1 I: C! i:l n o i · h e r· issue wh:ich is theJr ro1e every cl .'-1 y ·i n i· h 1·:· H n 11 :,; e o F (.) ~; ::; u m b l y . [ h;_.,

l) t' i·1l t' !'-! i:1 cl y Hxpld ·inud, Mr· No. 69 R3968

1~;, ~3 pea k P r· , t.: h c,~ s ·i. t. u ct l: i. o n tAl i. t: h respect to the amount of money t.:hdl tAli~:; pc:-dcl l:o Lh~:! l.dtAJ ftnn. I expJa'int:!d tt: vc,'r'y opE:'nJ.y hE:'I~E:~ l: o d.:~ y . l h r-) r· c t~kl ~; no b i. g f u s :; , no big J"aci<E~l over· it. OJ" anything l i. k 1,~ t h <'t l: . J ~~ x p J. d i. n c d ·i. i: . l f the'! horr. ntE~rnbE:'r doc~s not unc:lc~r·:; ·l·.dnd i.t or· c:lnC!!; not bel .-i.r-)lJ<-:• :i i , :r c i:l n n o t · d o a n y t h i n g a b o u ·t- 1: h '" I , r 1: c:'t n o n l. y 1: e l l h ·i m '"J h"' 1--. ·Uw ft-lct~: Cll"e.

At thE:' VE~I"Y most., lAJhat L·.ht-:! llllWJb<::!t' hr.~~; t'<'-1'i:>r:'d i:; no!: a p o :i n t: of p 1~ i. v l J e g e c EH '-t a i n J y ..... MR. fHNN ; (l d i. f f l'! r· o n c e o F o p i n i. o n . Ml~. S I:MMS: unl:ikeJ.y a potnt of order, but mo r· e c'\ l. on g the l. -j nus "'s lfl y colJ.eague, the M-inister of Mines just sc.'li.d, lllE:'Y'Ply c:q differ'(:Hlcc:! of opin:l .on bet.tAJE:'en tu.1o hon. members dS Lo the:1 fdcl:.s. Th<:-1+·. i.s all .. There is no big deal here. We hi.·llJe c:!xpl.i>l"i.ne:~d ·i.t. Tt. .·-Ls dll . 11p front and straight forward. f)R.

COI..I..JN~i : Gc~i: a pocket: colflfll .lh:!t' . Mf~. STI\1MS: T h N' C'! i s no tl- d n g t o i t at a J 1 , it i ~; no l: 1:' lJ e 1·1 IAilH' 1-. h d ~~ b"' h~ . m~ . ~3 P F n :<r-: R : To tht:d. po-.i.n·l of go ·i l'ltJ tn l.oo k ·in i:o :r hopE~ to bP abJ E:~ pr·-.i.v:i.lE~gE', J ant i·.I'J'i. :; illi-1. I· I e r' i:Hld to J"u1e tAJh€:!thc-:>t" l·her·e i.~; a fn· ·i.rn;,, fdc i.f:! c.'~·;r·:! IH' no~: J cl. t. e l" o n t. o d d y . Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given MR. WINDSOR : Mr . Speaker. MR. SPFAKFR: Th~>. hon. t.:h(:• M i.n"i.s 1-:r:!r' oF F'i.nEtnc:E:! .

I 3969 July 6, 1988 Vol XI MR. I1HNOSOR : M r . S p e a k E:H' , I t. a b J. E! t h E' a 11 S tAlE:' I" l~ 0 qJH~~;t: ·ion l'llllni:H:>r' l:.tmHli:y -SPlH'!I'l ·in the name of the hon. the member for· Candl'!l '. MR. HEARN: Mr . Speaker . MR . SPFAKFR: rl ·w h 0 n 0 t h (·:! r"l ·j n -.i. :; 1· (! t' () f :=: c:lu c eft l". 'i. () n . Mf~. I-IF(lRN: Ml". Speai<E:H', I hav ~~ a fur·thel" i,l l'l ~; IMt.' I' mE:Hnbe r l: () for· hle U1r'. yesterday c,, d t.l c d 1·.: ·i.u n d l chargE:!d for i:1 C[llE!:; 1:-i.on LhE:' Stt~ait D ~~ c k e r' ) c1 ~; in rc,•lation

section of f r· om 1·: he of flelle pr·otn .i. ~; l'''cl to thE! l .. _hn $S a big game fee.

The member asked what has been done. f3c~s .. i.dc'!S LAJhc"lt I told hi.1n yesterday, which was rather c o 1 n p r· ~~ hE'! n s i. v l'~ a n d c e r· t:. a -i. n l y tAl o r-· L h the amount of money 'involved, I tAJOt.tl.d j11St. dcid to tht'tt Lhc::tl:: l::he Fee, t..uhen it tAJas announcE!d, iL t.1.1as !> 1:: e1 1-: u d t: h d -L r' o lJ ('! n u C'! g E~ n E'! r' c::t l:: t:• d t..uouJ.d bE! usc-:>d to offset Lhe co~;-!: oF i:hn bit] gdrfll'! l.·i.clHlce cir'diAI, t.o engage.;! and E:'qu:J p aclcltt:i on<'l1 I~J'i.l.cl1il-n pr·ol·l·'!t:l·.·ion of='F ·icer·~;. ''~nr:l to e n h a n c e a n d e x p iHl d l.· h e ·j ni-ot·ntOJt:·i on dl'ld C:!di.ICC"lt-:. ··i.on pr·ogt"amrnE!S of Lhe WoilcJJ.jfp D ·i. lJ'i. ~;-i o rt .

T 1·11,1 IYi . tj tj ··Ultc l ·i. u:• n c e rl r· di~J 'i. !:: prPtty detailed, and basically 'POO,OOO l'li-l~> bE:!r,~n :;pent·. l·.o ~;el·. ·H· . up. Three:~ ad(Li tiona] tAJj J.dl·if('! p t' o l·: E! c I ·i.u n off ·i. c C'! r· :,; h d ~~ e b (!en added, and s:ince 1983, the budget of l:he InFcH'tndl:.·ion d!'ld Fc:lt .tc,:·ll:. 'i.un Unit of the W'i.J.dl.ifc-:> Doi.v:.Ls:ion has b e c:! n i. n c r' r:! ,,, s e d b y '" l. rn o s t. 'I> 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 a year, which is very si .gntf"i.cdnt.. To gf:•t spc>.c'i ·fi.ca1l.y to thE! E!ducation component, th~:· pr·ojc:!cl-.

Wild, I.,.JJYich "i. s i',J, pr·oqr·arnrne to integrate wiJ.dJ.'i.fe conservatjon IAJ"i , .. h 1.: h ~~ S C h 0 0 l. C IJ r' t' 'i. C I I l 1.1 l'n , h d S No 69 ~ 39 6 9

been rle\Jelopt: !d dnd h r-1·; bHen i~e:; i·.~)d :i 11 t l4H~ 1 V C:' S C h 0 0 1 5 t· h I'· 0 U g h 0 U t: t h e->. Pr ·o\J i nee. l dlil S tli'l:~ HH:! IIH :'IIII .;er· did not k n oL~J t-hat . AN HON. MFMBFR: You-(:l:id not,· cd"Lhet~ . MI'C H ~:A 1~1\J : T just did not l<nol4J the number of schools. I l:houghl : i.t IAii'lS hHl, but it is twelve. W'i. t.h the,~ Dop<:H' t HHH1 t~ 0 r i:du Cc:\ 1.: i.on and school boards, once it is f U l_ l_ y ('! V <:" J. 1.1 d i': (~ d 'j -1: IAJi . lJ. b (:! :irnplE:'fltE~ntc,~d thr·ough i:eachtO'r IAJor·kshop:;.

The:! ;:u; 1-.::i.wi .l'.y ba~ ;ed n~ sour· c e w:i.l J in u o J. u E:~ chi 1 d r E:~ n an cl ·I·~ h c~ i r· 1': e C1 c h 0.~ r :; i n i:l l. l 9 r· i't d ~:~ :; 1~r i. I h r· e C:A J J i f E:! c o n c c->. p t s e1 n d p I" o b J E:~ m s , ·~ n d L h (:' 9

l) i'\ l . i :; l·. 0 F 0 :_; i. e t' I 0 r C

I) II r· S (! , t' C! ') p!) i'l !) l b "j f" b

I) h d \) -j 0 I I r·· ·tcJIAICll"ds our· en~dr·onme:Htt Tn i:\dr:l'il:·ion Lo Lhi·;, il!; ( rnnntj Oltf!d yestE:H'da_y, ·the,~ Wj ldl::i.fE!

f) i. \J i :; i. o n h c'l :; d l. :; o c o n 1: r· · i. b 1 1 1'. e d 1. o i· hE·! [nuit'·onlTIE!ITl al ~'lc:ience course->. 1: c'\ 1 1 9 h I . i_ n :.~ h 10~ :; c h o o l :; . A l s o , contpr·c,~hE:.nsiue:~ gu:ides, and so on, hc'tUe bt~('!l'l dt :!VI::!lOp( o~d i:l:; dl'l education programme for the hunh' !rS. So T l:hi .nk IAJ f! cert.a i.nl y got thE! worth of the $5 chargE!d, ,3.nd [ tAJ -i.l.l. t.abh~ i.l~ . MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Health . Dl~ . COLLINS: Mr . Spec'lker, I indiccti':ed ye sterday, in an swer to some spur ·'L ous dll.egaLi.on: ; trmr:le by i~hl o' hon . ITrE!TnbC:'r for· Por·t de Gl"ave, UF '\ L t: IAJI)Uld Ldbl

f) d l E! u ~l-)1" l goi ·. .in J ook :ing in ·to thE:' rna t-LE:'In, cl l.ei ~Ler · Lo lilt-:! by r"!r ·. John lle;:~r·n, (.) S ~; 0 C J. d t E• [X €'! C U t ::i U f~ II ::i. I" E:! C t- 0 I" 0 f i".h0.~ Cel'lf!l"i'tl l·lo:;p ·i.i'.i :l.l J: rl irl :;;:ty r IAJi:J . ~; g o j n ~J t-o c h e c k tAl j_ t h M I" . H P Cll" n j II~ ; ~~ -1:0 ~;('I ·~ ·j (~ i·w h i·l d ,':\J'l l_j pt· ·nbJr'nts. l-IP sa'.id hP has no 1'3')70 .Jil}l_j 6, l()llil 1.) o ·1 X I p r· o b l C! trl :; 1~1 h i:\ 1· s o P tJ C! r· , :;

I) table the letter. Orders of the Day or~. COLLINS : Mot 'Lon l, fl:i.l. J. quite finish thE! lj. l . 41. We scheduJe T. d'i.cl of 1'101AJ not Bi11 On motion, that the HouS E! resolVE! i hn~l.f i.n t~o CotrJrn.i . t h~ E· of th E! ~~hol.e on Supply to consi.dE•r CE!r ·tc:d n I" e so J. u L -i, on :; For · l~ he g r· 1:-1 n t ·i n g o ·f SupplE•IllEHltar ·y Supply to Her· r"' i?l j E! s I~ y , M r· . S p (o! i'l k e t' l l:! ·f t·. l:: h E! Cha:Lr. Committee of the Whole on Supply MR. CHAIRMAN (Par·sons2 : 0 r· d (! r· , p l C.:! c'1 :; ~) 1 Dl~. COI.LTI\JS: r-1r· . Chc.dlnruan . MR . CHAIRMAN : !'hE:~ hon. tht!

M·i.rl'i.s L1=!r' of He< ·ll. 1-:h _ DR . COLLT.NS : Mr·. Chclirman, just to rE!fr ·esh p E~ o p 1. e ' s m :i n d s , IAJI 'Ho! n IAJ H lAIc :! n t through thJs par·U cular r'E!so1ution and the bi.l.l. subseqt .IE=•n!: th C'!r 'E!I ~o, there was some question ra ised abo u ·1: i:Hl -i_ l·~ ern ·i. n Hw ~:; c h e cl u l. E! IAr.i ~~~ h regard to the llepartment of F i. n c'-1 n c e , d n d I~ h c:·1 i.~ i. I·~ 1 '! 1 n ··i · n • t: h r:! Department of Finance relat ed to 1·: h E! ~=! Cji .J' i 1: y i. n V C:' :; I·~ HI! '! n ·t- i n Newfoundland Env iropon:i. cs.

Spi'!C :ific. :~.l.ly ''1: ; 1-oth<=! .::tii!Otln~ ·. thc:1t 1~1 a s a s s i g n E:' d t. o t h e 1 a n d p o I" t~ :i o n t~Jhcn Lhr! i:\nnntlncl:!lllt•ni'. I~JdS or i g j n i:t 1 J y rnc~ de , t: hE:' e q u :.i t:. y 1--hat go lJ C:H'I'llfl(! n I t.<li-1 ~; p 11 ·1. i i n 9 -; n L o 1~: he pi"OJE~ct IAJas $2.t:> rn~:illoion ·.:in c a~ ;h i·lncl :~1 nti'l.l ·ion ·i.n l.dnrl. T h~ :! poini­ IAJa ~; b I" 0 IJ g h t: Up t h i'l t SUb g P q U f:! l'l I··] y 1\lo. <iq :~ '3 ') 'I()

the land was assessed at $1501000 1 so -thE!r'e 1Ak1S R qUE!S-1: ton about I:: he $850 10001 1.uh:ich -.is ·c.I1Cc~ differ·encco! bt~tu.HHHl $150 1 000 t'lnd $1 lfl"i .ll.i.on. Mr. ctl !3 p e a !< c,~ r· I ·H~~~ e ncl of ,,, s [ the Cc'Xflld i ned day I the,~ j u ~; 1: o ·l:hel~ d c~l.lj I t h (! r·· l~ l~oli~ !) ~; Orrlf~ nd ::undf!r·:;h:·Hid:i ng about wh~:,d- ·that $1 111i.ll.ion l~k1S l'or·. Ti. llli:l.'> nol. for· J Cl n d I :i ·t I~Ji:l :; f o I" s E:~ I" v :i. c E:H.i ldncl . T. 1ni .ghL j11·;l: poinl. oui: l.h<·1i: j11 i:l. ::'l'cd .emE:~n-t- . ruad~~ by the hol'l.

I he Pr·e1n i er· on Mi·11J ll I '1. 9137 I ·in pHI"t he ::ays I 1 Th:is contl"ibution 1 U1 i-1 : i !; l. he $ 1. 111 i. ll. i o n 1 C011::j.:.:t: .: of pr·ov:idlng the-:> jo:int t) ('! n : 1 1 r H c o 1n p ;,1 n IJ ·L h i r· L y ,., c r· I'! !; o f servJced land valued at dppr·ox'i.Hidl.:el.y 1; ·1 11Ji.l.l. ·Lon. 1 A:; I ~~xpJ a:inE:'d 'l. he othE~r day I the,~ $150 1 000 appl.i8d t:o ~he dssessed value of Lhe raw land.

Tt was originally contemplated Lhat gov( :!r'nJIJE•nl: would ket:!p 1.1p -i.l:.s lJ n d l'c~ r t a k i n g by b r· l n g l n g that r a1.u l.dnd up t.o sE:!r'vi.cc:!d l.dnci stattJs by fur·ther expenditur·es, and j t was estirnntecl Lhdt l~hose ftJrt.h~H' C.:!Xpendi t.lJr'(.:!S IIJOUld bd.ng thE:~ I.UhO}(-?. t o t: c:1l. up l·: n $ l rrri. ll i. on . n :; i 1-. lur·nE:~d out I to be pr·acticaJ about i.l.: 1 iL IAJd:> d<::!Ci.d(~d Hli~l· . t'i'll:h(,~r· ·l hr.n1 gouE!I"I1Tn(~l·l'l:. bl~:.i.ngj ng the 1e:1nd tip to l·hi .s S(:~l .. l) '·il;c~d l;1nd sL:1Ltl!>, Jt to~.touJ.d be bE:!St :if we just hiHldE:'d Ot)et· I· he r'<·1t.J.J l t:l!'ld iHld ~;11ppl i t:•d I: he fiJ ncLi ng f Ol" t ht· contr·a c t or·s c~ ncl I~ he o 1 1·1 C! ,. p (~ o p l e i·ll ;· e <.HIIJ on ·; i I (·:· I or· go :i n g on the s '1. ·~ ~=! for· l-h E=• ptli''po::.( ·:! oF bttilrl'in\.!] 1:i·lt-:! ~;1 ·.r·tiCI:tll"f~~ to do ·U1(~ ::(:>r·vj c:ing. ~~o the ITICHlE:~Y l·:h.:-11: gotJ(·~r·nlllen1: t~Jottld h.:-1lJ~~ ~;p~.-:!nl: do:.ir1g ·~I'J(~ ~;('!I"U~)c:ing ::itSE!lf lAJHS s 1.1 p p -J ·i e d 1: o i · 1·1 t:! p r· o j c c; t fH:! o p l e I t.uh o d :i d li 'H:' s e r· vic in g .

TherE:! is no d.:i .spdt'it:y I:H:!h.JC!e:=!n t~lhdi: ~~IdS anrtOUI'lC(:!d :i.n U•nns oF E!quity con ·l-.r·:i .bui: "i.ons c'lnd ~~thi:1 1: IAJdS act: u i:1l] y don(~ I :i t. IAJa s donE! :in a sl·:Lghtl.y d-j fferc'•n I~ trJc:-1nn(=!r'. 1.3971 July 6, l9BB uo-1 XI MR. CHAIRMAN: ThE:~ hon. I: hE! l_c~ddc~r· of the Opposition. Mf~. WFLLS : r-1r·. Chc'li.rrrtdn 1 somebody h<1s gr·(~at .ly rnj slE:~d thE! hon. the f)(;!puty Pr'l·~ln ·i Pi'. Q11·i 1:('! cle.:-1r·J.y I so111ebody h a s g r· eat l y nd s lE:• d him .

The r· E! i s no tAldiJ i.n l:h1~ t~Jor·Jd l".hc:tt dll':}body CCHI agt"eE:~ that· the vaJ.1H• of t h:i.r-t:y dCI': :!~; Of~ p;· ·i.lfll ·:! li'tncJ in ·l·ho rrri.ddle of Mount: Peal"l 1 t.uJth the ~>E:'I"V:i.c(:'S t'llrll'l'ing by ·i.l.l r~r ·o nl·"i .ng on a S~H'VJCE:~d Sti"!'::~Ed.:l is IAJOd::h $1501000 or· <j; 1), 000 i:ln <'I c r·e . ll: wc:-1 :; wor · l·:h appl"ox:ituatE:~]y $4·0 1 000 an acr·e jn l:he cnnd·U·.·ion ·i.n ~~JI'l'i .ch i.l'. lAid~:;. If you r·e1n SE:'r'Vices thr·oughout j t Fo1" d StlbdilJ'i.~; 'i.on 1 ·i.l:: t~JOtlld b1,, lAlOr' l·:.h d gr'Nli: deal rnorE•.

But that land lAJi:l $ IAJO I"' 1·: h S ()]f)(,~ '1: h ·i, n 9 ".i. rl l:: hE' neighbourhood of $1 mi1lion to aboul-. $1..3 rn.i.ll. ·i.on. T drn pt'(;!pc~l"ecl to accept the rounded figure of $1 million thAt the Prem ie r original1y announced. I do not r· (;! c:1ll y q u c:-1 r· r· 1:'! 1. IJ.l -L 1:: h l:: h d l~. I t h a t. that is the real vaJue of that pl.c'•ce oF propEH' ·I:y. f\lOIAJ, l'-1r·. Chd-i.t'llldn I l".he l.dnd I dS far as this usage u.Jas concer·npdl l~ld:; Sl::!r'l) ·i Ct!d; ·IJH:! :;(~t't)'i CE~S IAJE!r'O ·i.n thE! s l-rfi:~(~t~ fl"onting on t.he Janel.

Tl' yn11 IAJC:!r'(~ 9n·ing 1:o clr.:!vol.op LhE:• lh:i l"ty acr·c->.s I you IAJould probab] y \.!Jt:'l'. '1:30 or· 'llf.O l:ltl·i.-lcl·in\j lol ... !>. MctybE:' jf you IAJE!I"E:' go:ir1g to puL l"l)!;· illenl :io-J.l :;l:r'1-:•el::; ilrlcl l~h· :'t·l: i.n it I t h (~ n :i t I.Ui:l s no L s Co! r· v J c e d F o I" 1: h i·1 I. p I I I'' fl I) :; f) . MR. ~1/INDSOR : It lAJas zonc,,d agr·icu1l::ur·a]. MR . WfU S: The LUITi.ng doe:; not ITlo':'!Li::E=!r' . MR. WINDSOR: It does not? MR. WELLS: 1\lo . 69 R397l

The !Old 119 dO~!~; not rnCJ.ke any r:J i. f. f" t! ,, f! n c 1·:~ . MH. lii)INOSOR: r:l: l:ei"l,'linl.y doo~;. Tt lflr~!U~!; i:l big d :lffcr·c,~ncE~ jn thE~ valUE:! of the l.dnci. rhe bon. 91:~1"1 1: li::!llkHl !< rl(li~JS enough about lcwJ fol" that. MR. WELLS: ThH zord ng dot,!S not make any d i. f f (H' e n c e I~ o t: h E! v r.1 l. u e o f t h a i". raw land and what it was worth.

Nt ~IAJ"foundland and Labr·dciOt' i·lous i.ng OIAJI'l that land, NE:'Wfoundland and L.abr·adc.n· Hous i.ng, IAJhosl'! pt'"i.HiiH'Y fun c t :i. on :is to p r· o v j de r· aw 1 and ned .: for· frH'In-i.ng i.n l:he nd.cldl.c:! of ·1-1'1E:~ notAl city of Mount PE:~arl but few bOLlS ·j ng cHlcl COifllll(;!l'''i.Ci?\J dl"ld other· ~~:i.rrd J cU' dE:~ur..:~1opment.. That i.s 'l:.hE! function oF 1\Jei~JfOIIndl.and CJ. n d I c.t b I" c.t d o r· II o u s i n g . T h e y IAJ e r e 1111-H 'S hc~ll ·'i.ng i:hai : l;Hld for i·hal : pur ·posc,~, not to l"lHl c.t fc.trm. The->. r·c :!i"l , v.:~lllt! of i:hi·lt li·1ndl r.lir· .

CVrc'A:ir·riiCI.I'I 1 Wi'..IS, ctt t:he VE~r·y J.c->.a.st, •':\ f11ll . $ ·1 1rri .ll ion DR. COl. I. rl\l~) : lrJ h o ~: cl :i. d t hat:? MR. IIIIFI.I. S: The Pt' C::!Jili .er· c:l i.d . DR . COLI. UJS: No, he did not . MR. WFI..LS: Yes, he d:id. HE:~ .. i.n ser·v .Lc~~d l.dnd, to which it is land was serviced . DR. COLLINS : No! MR . WEI I.S: y (~ S 1 it lAJa ~; , MR. IAJ U\JI)~Of~ : was going to put c)\ncl for• t:h~~ I.ISC~ being put, that. N cd IAJ h P n :.i t 1.\J ct s b o u g h t 1l E! 1; e l npHH:!ni".. (:.i naud:ibJ E:!) I :19 7 /. July 6, I98B Vol XI MR. WF.I I.S: l n c'li:~ C'! c:l i l·. tW\ ~=· .

AN HON. Mf.MBFR: l i: r~Ji'IS for· ,:'! g r· ·i c tt-l. 1:: u r· c1l. . Mr?. WI:I .. LS ; Indeed :it for· 1-.: he 11 s e IAJas. It IAJas SE:'r·v:icE•d t () IAJ h "i_ C h ··i. t IAI d S p 1.1 t . MR. WINDSOR: T 1·: IAJcl s s E! r 1; .. i c P d b y 1: he H o u s i. n g Corporation . MR. WELLS : Tt was servicPd . J'o1r ·. Chd i.nncHl 1 cl.(~iH'l.y l::hc:! valtH:! of that land IAJas, cl't. the VE!ry least., $1. rnil.l.-Lon. nncl IJ.JhHn you J.ook fill: the documents, and t:hc,~ s·t.atE~rnont s m.:·u:l (! by 1: he h on . U1 C! P r· <'! 11ri ('! r· I t.: h c~ t is very clear· .

HE! nradE! it cl E!ar U!i :1t 1:he l:oU'tl {~~:pt ·i1:y o f l::l·w govE:~rnnrent t~Jould bE:' $3 .5 m:i.JJ :ion - l:h1·:~ l.ol:;·1l. ~-~qui .l:y of l.he gotJl ·H'I'llflt '!nl:. would be $3 .5 m:ilJ:ion.

NotAl :i.f ·1 hE:! [)E~put·y Pt"em::i.er is 1: or·r'C!!; 1: ·in h·i !; i·\!; ~; ~)t•1·. ion I i:lnd 1·: he M:i n:i.st Hr· of Fj nanCE! :is con'E:'C L i n h·i .~; ~>llppor·l· of il. 1 i·hun l:h.:• Premier IAJould haVE:' sc.dd tlw Y'C '!i'l l cq11i .i:y oF HH :' gc)l)er·n11tent tAJoul.d be $4,350,000, becau se we are going 1-.o prtl: ·in '~lr,o,ooo of r·atAJ ldncl; $3 . 5 mi 11 ion :.L n cash , and lAJE:! an~ going l:o spend $8 1:)01000 to SE:!rVi.CE! i. t. DR. COLLINS : That was not done . MR. WELLS: Thc:11: "i.!; iJJhat. yott ··\r'e Si:1y-Lng. is, in fact, what was done. 1)1(.

COI.I .TI\1~3 : It was not . r11~. ~\IF 1. '-~::;: WhE! n you J.oo k at . t· hE:• fj ~JIJ J"e !; l.n n k 1'1. 1- ·i • h C! ;., g I" I"! f.:! n 1 C! n t: cl i.'t h:! cl Th..;:1t and 1·hr:. No . 6 9 R39'72

25th ddy of JunE:~, s"i.gn<::!d bE~hAH:!r'!n thE! government and thE! Sprung Group of Compan"i.es, it clectrly provides that the Sprung Companies werE! l: o cons t r· u c 1·: the fa c ·i 1 -Lt. ··i_ e s on the,• land as defjned, that ~i s ~-_hC:~ - l.dncl conveyE:!cl or· 1-:o be:! conVE!yed - by NE~IAJfoundland flnd Ldbr·Rdor· Ho11 sing, f cw '!> li~, :~ 2 5, 000, cAnd . :it also pr·ovidE:~s that thE~Y wen:~ 1-.

r) be r·esponsiblr'! l:o con:.tr-uct d fctcil i t.y on the 1and. (.)l:;o, f-1r'. Ch•·l'i.t'llkHl, l:he con!;tl"uction cont-l"ac ·t signE:!cl J atE! I" fH' o lJ ·i ck: :; 1--. lv1 L I h r-) y 1~1 e r· e l. o cl o >·1. ll . ·lhe,! wor·k, and they wer·c,, pajd s fH~ c i. f i.e "' ·1 l. y f o r· cl o · i n 9 Uw ~;-i l.e Pl"E!pcu"at:i CHI IAJOI"k; they IAH:H'c~ to gEd: "' pi~ljlll(HIL or $1 .IJ uri.1.1 .-i.on on Hll,~ !;ign:.i 119 of t.hE~ contr'cAct, and $?.. 6 1Wi ll. ion IAJhc:!n 1-.ht~ :; ·i h:: fH'E!P•H'''' l:·i on wor·k IAlcAS done .

That is to be found 1. n C'l <HIs E: /L 2 i. n U1<~ P"~ IJIIIC:Hll ~ s c IH:HJ u 1 e . 11 $2 . 6 nri 11 ion by --i_ n s 1·. ,_., 11111 en 1: !> 'L n cl. c cor· rl r:-1 n c f:! 11.ri . l: h '" payn1ent

schedule to be agrE!ed upon following receipt of site plctns and dE!Signs duJy stampE!d by a qui'\l if i.~~d c;!ng i.ne~~r· entit .lt~cl to practice in NelAJfoundland. In this p i.'l r· a g r· c\ p h , s 1. t e;! p l d n !; i:·\ n d rl c,~ :; ·i. g n s shall I"E'fel" to a]] sitE! p r· C:! p r:·1 r· i.'l 1: i o n :i. n c l. u d ·i. n g c l (:' d n ·i n g , JevAlling, road construction, -Lnsta1l.c'lt.:i .nn of ~~Jc'\l--.c::r· i'tnc:l Sf:!IAJer· hook-ups. 11 Under t·hE! constr·uction conlr•ctct, i·haL tAJOr'k 11.J< :~:; l.n be donf:~ by the,~ Spl"ung CJ"OtJFJ of cornpanJe,~s.

T l1 n I" C'! a 1 v a J u P of t-1-w J Cl n d a n d t h E• r·c:~o<tl_ Cc~t:jll i l:y I h!O! l_30\J(!t'rllil(!rll'. of l:h j !; PI"OV.i nee" l1a:. j n ·1 h<.it invE:!~d:rrtE:!nt, l'-1r · C h ,., i l"tr l<-Hl, i. !) $ /l .. J 111 i.l.l i u n , ;., nd IAI E~ 0 lJ g h t 1'1 (llAI t 0 I" (,~ C 0 g 11 j I. (-:! :i ·t i~ 1'1 cJ knotAJ, tAJh!:'!rl tJ.JC:! ru··c tJoLini!J on Uri!; b :i J ] , E:~ X d. C t] y lAIII d t IAJE~ i:J I" P d 0 j 1'1 g . :H i s no ·!-. i'-1 c c IH' cd:. E• t o S a y l h a '1:. -1: h C:~ tJd1Ut:! of l.h.:d: 1,u1d ~~~i~·; $lr)o,ooo, For· wh:i ch :i l 11.Jas convPYE:'d.

The VdlUE:' of 1-.h,'\1: Jdnc:l IJ.Jc\:;, dl·: !:he very Jeast, $1 million, so the r'E'!i'll oq11i .1--.y l:he gr>tJor·nmr-:!nl-- . of th·i.~; L3 973 July 6, 1988 Vol XL Province hcts in that, Mr . Chairman, js $4.3 million, and we should kl 'lOIAJ E~Xc'lctl.y IAlh<'tt IAJC"! ar·e doing when we do it. MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon . l:ho Mi.n ·i.sbH' of IIE:!r.\lth. OR. COLLIN!'?: I assume the hon. t 11 E! I E!adel'·· of i·.hn Oppo!;-i.t·ion ·i ::; q E:! nu-L n E:! Jy confused on this lTii'.:ttl::el". :r a111 ·~!; !; ltHri.ng this lcH1d UJi'll-.. out- I' l·ll') 'l:hei"E:! poinl. ·i.s ·r.hdt.

IAJa S 0 U '\ ~; j dE! a 1fltt1Yi ci . fktl ,-i I· y , i l: 111r-h r· i-'1 IJ.J l i'l 11 cl , · L ! ·. IA.I <:A s c.:! s s E~ n 1: :i a 1 J y bog Jetnd; it IAJdS I I l'l I I !) H b ] C~ !:J 0 9 1 i·\ i'l ci i i'l 1·. h c.:~ ~; L H 1-. ~.! i 1-. IA.Ia s in. The or·:ig::i na1 al"r'angemE:!nt 1.11as l:.hdL 1 i:Hid IJ.JO tll_d b f! S II p p 1. ·i H d 1: 0 1-h lo!

PI"OjPct on IAJh:ich they IAJouJd const:r ··11CI: the !>l~r11ci:11re. 1-o do ·t h a t , g o v e r n rn E:· n t h a d l o cJ o -l:i .AJ o l:h.i.ng!;: F·i.r·s ·U y, ·L t·. had l·.o pr·ocur·e thE• land fr·om NLHC, and , SE:!Condl.y, i.l: hc:-~d l·o do cer··t·.-.a·.in things. I am going to -use the IAHH' d 1 S E'! In V :i_ C ·j rl 9 1 , b ("! C c1 U ~;; ~:• t. h i'<t 1-. i S what the hon. TnE!TflbE!r said in his std.

I: E:111H:! n 1-.. thE! whole r·(~dds a~; establish f ,:_.u; ·i 1 ·i l·y plecu>ed l ,:, rn no t g o t n g ~-. o r' e et cl thing, but h:i~; st.atE!ITIE'!nL f () l. l.OIJ.J s : II T () h ('! l p this $18.4 m:-.illion ·i. n [--h e P t' o l) -i_ n c e , T c'liTl announce Lhe c o n t r· · i b 1 1 1. ·i o n N E:~ IAJf o u n d 1 and to by i:hl :• and Go

l) e r nnw n 1-. o f I abi"adol". r:·i_r·:; 1·.1 'j J Hlf! Pi'l)lJ'i no:! IAJ'i "I J. pr'OlJ ·j de <-Hl e q u :it . y con tr· i b u t i on of $ 3 . 1> ,wi .l.liort Th·is cunh·i .bul-- :.ion c.ons:ist~; of pn)V:icl:ing lo H1E'' jo: :inl .. lJ• ·:•nl:ur'l'' c:olllpi·1ny l·hit· ·l:y O:'tr~J"E:!~; of serviced land valued ai i·\ p p i' o X · i. HI i:\ h:: -1 1J '\i I ICl i. .. 1 ·1 ·j o n . f h 1:! bd1anc~::• of ti·IE!

Pl"ov'ince 1 !> E~qu-.:i Ly conl:r· ·i_blli: ·iu;l of ~!;;.:> _r; lrtU .l-ion IArill. be in the for·rn of a cdsh advcHlC~'· {-_ 0 [--. h f'! j CJ'i. 1'1 1: V C'! 1'1 '[-_Ill"(~ C 0 I II p cHI IJ . 11 rtld t·: I~Ji.'t!; be done . procur·ucl No . 69 (-. h e I Ale-\ y ·i 1. nw land 1:-r'Oiil ~.J l_l·l c ' lAid S going t:o IJ.Ja!; dncl \:o bE• NUIC 1n973

Chclr 'gC!c:l fOI' ' thP l:o pu l: p r· o j C-' c t lhc li:ll'ld' 9 o t; ~) r· I'll n

r) n l: Co u E:~ r· r1rnE! n t i l: in :;u c h a could USE' r or ·m j t ' (!!)i:itlldh)d l.hdl : iJli :ll : I~JC)I .Ild $'I !')0 1 000 IAJi:.lS thE:HI l:h;·d Hll ~ T t t..ucl s c~xtr·a ![.ftr,o,ooo to ·H1E! cost, d :1;1 111i.l.li.on conl :i" ib11l:ion. i·l d d "'rl making N OIAJ IM l·w n t~Jt ·:! 9 o l: rl 01.~1 n to c d s ~) :; on oit, it IAJaS CJE:'i:.lr' '!:hat 'it IAJOUld b€~ poi . n 1.:1 (:~ :; :; 1~. o h c:-1 t; c,~ I:.IAJO s (,~pi .~ r· r:~ ·l: E:~ constTuct.J .on pr·ojects going in 1-:.hr "! r·r:~: onE! cons'l:ri~Ci ".'i. on projE!cl -. putting up the fac:lli l~y, and t.he other construction project servJcing the land .

So arrangements IAiere made that the r'rli/J 1Hnd, Vi:tl.UE~d col!': $'1.50,000, wouJ cl bE:~ passed ou E:~r togc.;!ther· IAI~i th iHl . a Ill 0 u n t 0 r rn () n e y I L: hat Hw contr·actor· doing the project, the fdci .l. i.l-:y I IMOI.Il.d pu 1-. i·h(:' l cHid i n1 .o s l1~pe to make it sc-:>r·uiced land. r.Jnd 1\lel,r Foltnc:ll cHJcl r:ntJ i r·opon i c:;, by t h €~ IAkl y , d lC\ c j d e d ·(-o g o a h E:~ a d o n l: h r.1 i: b •·1 !; i :; , 1. h i:ll: : ~w i. n c l 11 s · i tJ e f::i g lll " E! tJJo u J d be $ :1 nt:l1 J. :i on .

In <·lcl :llc:ll. fdt:l·., ·i l: i:llt 'nt-:!d oul: ;-h•·lt i I c:o~;l thern I'IIOl''C.:O thc.Hl $850,000 to l.c:~!u~ r'aiJ.J 'l_, ·~nd •~n d p111· . ·i.·l· ·in l.o H ~:hape thc1t LIJd ~: ~;u:lt~bJe fol'' t·he fi .·u::i l i i·.y. I 1: co: > I· 1:1-Jr-: !rn mol"e l:h<Hl thcd .. 1'-1 R . lttl F. U ~~ : Wh..:tl : dJd l:h~~y c:lo l:hdl'.: co:;l: i:hi·ll : n1uch? OR . COLLINS : What rlid they do? books. Mf~. WELLS : Tl'.: -L s on l".ht'!-i.r· l3 u t t~Jh a 1·: d 'l d 1~. h (~ y do 1·: h a 1: cos l: that much? OR. COI.LINS : No t b e i n 9 e1 c o n s 1". t' 1 1 c ·1-. ·j o n p e r· s o n , cannot: <HlSIIJE:'r thr.ll.

Rut I l<noLIJ l:: h el I· T tJ i s ·i. 1". e d l ·. h ~) p r' o j t~ c I: 1; C:! r· y c,~cli'·]y on, befor€>. 'l:hl~!lnc.;! IAJa~; any sl :.t'IIC't:UI"e on l:he pl r:lcc ,~. dnd T c.~n I :19 71 ~ Tu1y 6, 19Hil IJo l .XI h ·d l 1. he h o n . I e:~ i'1 r:l e t' o F Oppositoion that there wa s m o lJ' i n g (:' q t J · i p m r·:~ n l: I:) d c k h o 1·:! s trucks, and concrete things fl i p c ~' i·lll. o tJ 1::! ,.. 1: he p l d c 0. t h E:!

I" e . :r <"..liTI q u 'i. t. e ~; u r· E:! :; onr::h ·i ng l,t.Ji:l ~> gcd ng on. l assure him of that. 1·he l.r.ln d t'ln cl and 0 I I 1·: that. c i:l l'l That 'is thE! c,~xpJ.ana·U.on, and thE!

Lol'..--~.1 E:~q11 ·i l'.y p11 l: ·i.n by l':lw Newfoundland Government ended up dl : $150,000 ·i,n t'dl,t.J l.dnd, sufficient monJ.E!S th<:1t :it lAJas ctgt·(~('!d UJE!':J I;,Joul.d pul: .i.n l:.o rn< :<~ ke the land serviced, $850,000, and $ 2 . ~) H!"i . ll. ··i o n i. n c e1 s h , r:~ n d +·. h a 1·: l.o~J a s ma tc hE:~d by a s imJ hu· con tr:i bu tio n by t:l-w o i:I-H'! r· s i. d C'! of t: h c"! b iH' g ;:,l"i, n . MR. CHATRI'-1AN : The hon. thE:' LeadE•r of Lh P Oppo!; ·i Lion . r"'R. WI: L LS: Ml". Cha:i1nman, t here.;! ::i.s no IAii'lY :in 1: h C l;,i

I) r· l cl i 1: . i ~; g U. i I I tj l: 0 C 0 ~:; t $850,000 l:o put :in a.tAJi:.tl'.:el"]··inE ! Fo1" '" ~; ·in':!jl{) II!;<H.:Jf!, Fo;· ' one 11nil'. . .rr=- you had to Sf!I"V:icc,~ :it fot" Jo ts, l CC:llll d 11nd:n·:; l·.<:H1cl ·i l: I:H""i.nq subs·( ant:i.a1 . N 01.11, then, ::if thE:!

I" E! ::i ~; a 11 y ct'(· ~d·ibi .lily hJ ~~11 ·10\l .: l·oi'w O epul- .y Pr'E:~rn:ier ::is saying, I;,Jould he P x pl. c-l"i . n 1: h (·~ P r· f! 1wi r,' t' 1 :; s l:i'l t e lfH '! 1'1 t , T bel:iE:'VE:' clel:i.vet"ed Jn t.h~" Hou se b u I: · i :: rn <.'l y n o l.: h d v H I:H:! e n , -L 1: 1ft d y have been delivered to the pr es s - d c:1 l~ E:~ cl J 1.1 n e /. ~i , 1 9 B '7 , i. n tAl h -L c h he says this, 11 As indicatE!d eli~ LhE:! 1: i.IJlt:• 0 r 0 lH' c'li'Hl 01.1 n c ('! rrlf'! n t·. ·i. n Mi ~l y I government ::is making the foJ.J.owing c o n 1·: r· "i. b 11 l: ·i o n :; r-o N E" l.o~J F o u n d 1 d n d Fnviroponic s: an E•qu ::L ty :infus::i.on o F $ 3 . !) rn i. ll i. o n , t.a.J h i c h i n c 1 u cl H ~; the land and related i. n f r• d !) ',: r' I I C ~~ I I I" C;! . 11 I)R.

COLI .T~IS ; r~tght.! No. 69 i~:l 9 '74

MR. WE1 .. 1.~3 : And reJ atE!d infr·astructur·e Lt~hich 1ncl.uJes it. T he $3.5 mill io n :incJudes it. NouJ if it. 1~1as necessctry to put in another $850,000, IAJhy did he make the s tc.~ b~ liH"! n t t 1·1 d 1:'. 'Lt. :L n c l. u dE~ d t: hE~ related infrastructure? Would he expl.r.dn t:hr.~t? MR. CH A Tf~MAN : The hon. t.hE:~ M:i.rdstE:~r of HE:la} th. DR. COl ,. I_ U .J!":J : lll! h cd t: h e h o n . r11 C"! m b 1::'1'' j u s 1· s <:d. d Vc1l. -i.rldl:e ~; l.o~Jh,·ll. T !><·1i d. The l:ol :<·1l cont-r·:i but :i on of t-l1e govE~r-rtr11ent IJJi:~s '!i 3 . S I fl i. l. -, i. 0 1'1 , Ill; ·1. ri (!

II p 0 f ( d ~; h i·1 i'1 d J ct n d . The I" E-l 1~1a s no e x t r· a $BSO,OOO . The f;·u:1· Lh<·1.1: I~H~ l;~nc:l :.i11 t.hE~ l"cll~l st<:.d- .t! cos ·! $J.f.;o,ooo and i: 0 b r· i n 9 i.L II p l·. 0 II S i·1 9 f:l ( 0 !) l: cH1ot hel" ~);850, 000 totaJ led, 1: h E! I" 1::1 f o r· c , $ I. lfr i. J. l. · i. o n , <'ll'l d l: h <'! cd s l1 i:HJJOU rd:. IAJa s $2. 5 mil J ion, Hlaking .:-1 l:ot• ·1l. oF $:1.

r) m·i .l.l.·i.un, i:; tJJh ct t I h a v e be e n s a y i n g a 1 1 c.~ l. on g . T h l::l con t r· i b 1.1 L -i, on lAid~; $ :l . rj milJ:i.on, includ·ing the r·atJJ land r.~nd Lhe structures, or whBtever tha ·t stah~TTIE!nt sctys, that were n E! c E! s s a r· -i_ l. y r· c~ lett E~ d t. o i t . MR. DAWE: COinlfle ci . C OI'flllll::! C·~ . MR . CHATRMAI\J: Thc~1 hon. th<~~ I..E:~adE:~r· of the 0 p p o :; i. 1: . .i. o n . Ml~. ~,JFI.I .S : II :i d l. h E'! y t a kE~ iHl y ~d . E:! p s t o h a v P a n I'!

I) i ·1 J. II i·1 l. i. () 1'1 ci () 1"1 ~) (: f l: h e l <'1 1'1 d b t·:! r-0 r' (-) t l1cy al.J owed i.t t:o hH conuE~yed for· '~lr.)O,OOO, flltb"'.·i .c li'lnd? nr~. co1.1.. u.n : Tli (! J iHI d i n cj u e s t 'i o n by N 1.1-1 C . l-1-. co~:; 1· l:wl j eVE). MR. lii!F'I. L~ ~ : was purchased t1SO,OOO, 1 T L lo~Jd~; l'!Xpr·opr· ·i i.l !·:E!cl . I.1J'i J 'l I 39E> July 6, :1.988 Vol XL p t' !) d 1.1 c (~ i:1 c 0 p y () f . i. l·. ' DR. COLLT.NS: I am not going to 9E:'t j nto that c1spl~ct--. of thing~>.

Tarn go'ing l~o say Jt LIJas acquired by NLHC and, I u n cl ('! r· s t c:1 n c:l , d t ''' c o s 1-: of $ '1. ~) 0 , 0 0 0 . MR. WF.U .S : $160,000, to be precise . Dr~. COl LJNS: They had done nothing wjth the l "' n d F l" o 111 1· he l: L rrH'! ·I: h e y d c q u "i.t· l'' d it-: unt:il t·hE! PI"OpOSclJ. IJJi.'lS pul· l:.O l:hem l:h;·lL Ul'i .~> IMOII.ld be 11sed by NE:~wfoundli'.l.nd rnvir·oponi cs, so the:•y i".r' iHl !) (~ (! t' r· t:~ ci ·j i· 1-.0 1-. h (! FJ r· 0 l) . i. I'll ;f.:! j- 0 r' t. h a t p u I" p o s P cl t i t s p u r· c h a s P p r· i c P . SOM[ liON.

MFMElt:RS : ii~)dr', hodr'! r~R. 1,\JF:: u.:3 : T h E:' 1 i'.ll'l d l:o l'.i:1l' r1r '. was expropriated tn Ch~irmdn MR. J. Cf.JRTF.R: Only a corner of it. Did you not. h c~' et r HH:' rni . n i. s t: e r·? 0 n l. y a corn E· r· of it. My God! I would not hirE· you. MR. WELLS : Fr ·o1n on~:! AlbE:lt'i:·. Edl.es. T have;~ thE! ~::~xpropr·iat.i.on- ordE!r, and it-: js •= h e c.;! x i-1 c := d "' ~; c r· J. p t :i. o n . T. h d v e 1:: h E' expropriation order here.

Twelve hc~cl ··.; u·r::!!;, l·.h.:1l: ·i.~; <'lbOIJl: : l·:hir·l:.y acres, is what was expropriated, done by llt'OI~Jn <Hlcl C>we :-)tJr'I.JC'!YS. 11.1 o 1.11 , r-1 r- Ch<d t'llli:Hl, 1-:hr:• Pxpropt"iat ion ~.ook plaCE:! :.in 1973, f i. f I C! n 1'1 y C i-'l I' ~; b (! r-o ,. r:· . r h d 1-. -j :; IAIIIClt ti·Je Ji.'lnd l.lli:lS LIIOI"'i':h -.:i1·1 19'73.

NotAl you convE:·r·t: t·host"! 1973 do11ai"S inl·o 191l'7 doll;u·:;, r·1r' Chdi.nnc:Hl, cHid IAr.:it.h !he chiH1ge :.i.n ci .r·c:tllli!>LHlcr'!:,; ·in Mo11nl: Pc:!ar·l. you tJJ:iJ.] corn~:' out IAJ:it .h thdt 1and hdiJ 'i ng '·'' t'Oi'tl v i.'l l I I (·~ F () t' p I I b l ·j c No . 6 9 R397r~;

hotts i.ng pttr·pose~; i.n :·.hi .~> Pl"OtJ:i.ncc. for· t.a.Jhiclt Nl=>.l.a.rfoundJ.and and l.dbt ·r.tdor· Hott~; i ng J i.-HId f 0 t· IAJ h j C h JlkH'shal.l ed Ult:' t·h(-'!Y r11ar·shal.J.E>.d ii NOtAl i·1 ;'1-:!i~l. tJd-ltte oF ,~·1 nri l.l·i on. t h ~! t' ('! i:l ] j t y 0 f :it i ~; IAI E:! p U t I h.~ l. 1hcd '1 .. Hld i.n l.o l·hi·1 I. lor· ·f> ·1 r;o. 000 j ~-; tAl hi~'[ lAH~ go I. (Lid, i.'ind thE! 9 o t.J e r·l'llne nl'. $2 !) • 000 (' ()j'' ~Hig :i I'IE!F!I"il'lg ~;er·v:i.CC o1f. . DR . COU.HJS: Whi.'.lt dJd it: cost the Nt::'tA.JfoundJand GotJC:!r'niiH'!rll: to btty l".he land? MR.

WELLS : WE:!ll, tt cost $'1.60,000, t.JJh'i.ch pc-.d.d at i:hr:' (~ x p r' o p r· l. ('t t i. o n , i. n MR. TULI< : jt 1~1<:1 s time 1973. That is a1J :it cost. MR. WFLLS: at Jr:'ast +. h t;! a 111 o u n t of the 1n 19'/3, 1-.hd I. i.s l.a.Jhdl.: :i.l:: cos L. incr·ec-JSE:1d 9t'(:1.'\i-.ly s i.nce:' i·:h(:Hl, . io l·.he po i.nl: Now ti't E'!

V (:{ J.tH:1 of it IAJhEH'E>. the hon. gentlEHTian krtOIA.JS !·.hr.1L t·h~::1 r'edl. t;,·'tl.tte oF 1:hi.·1i:. l.i-lnd, :J n thr:1 heat· .. ~ of tAJhal is not.o~J the c:-il:y oF r4ottnL PCiH'l., ·i!;, ···li: l·.l-lt:! ~~ ~, r· y J e c'l s t · .. a t t hE~ v rcH' y 1 E:! a s t - 'P nri.l.l :ion, ;q~; H1c-:! Pr·~~nril -~i" or ·:i,g:i netl J y st:c~t.Pd , 11 R . C 0 I. I . J N ~:; : ( l: 1.a.1<:1~> ;oned, For· Gocl 1 ~; s;qke, U: IAICI ~; I'IPV E!l" /.(Ht(->.d f 01'' r'E! SidE:' nt:i a] . 1'-1 R . W r I .

I ~; : fly p '·' i: L ·i n g ·i :- 'i. n 'i. n i: h-i.:; ~~~·-' y , (' o t' $150,000, there has been an r.HI d i. 1 .... i o n i~ 1. E~ q u i. 1·: y oi. n f u s -i. o n i. n t-. o Newfoundland Enviroponics out of p u b 1 i. c f u n d s , t.o~J ~IE! t h e r i. I: i. s !-- h r·ou g h NE!l.a.lf ou ndJ.a nd a ncl La brad or Housi .ng or· any ol::hc'!r' publ.:Lc r.<gency, of about:. $850,000. Now l:. h d t. i. s t: h E! r' e d ·1 'i. 1·: y of i. 1:: . MR, J. CAfnFI~ : No, it js not. I :l q '/ (j .Titllj (i, 191lil I.Jn ·1 X I Ml~. lt·IF.I .. I.~ : That ·:rs r.tll 1.ur~ ar'E:' saying.

The clr:·r~d ·is done , i\Jo doubl: i·hi .·; HotiSC'' :is going to approve of ::it, but:. 1Ed 11:; do i.l- knct~ri .ngly ;.mcJ h;HJC'! t·!·w p ~~ o p 1 E! of 1': h :i. s P r· o v i n c Co~ r· C"! c o g 1'1 i z e t~Jhi:ll·. t~:c iH't:! doing t~ri l:h i:h~::d r· rn on E:1 y . And that is E~ x a c 1"1 y IAI h cl t I~JC! IVtl) (! d

I) n (·) ·i. n Ul'i. :; pd Y' -1. i. c Ill c:H' CCISE1. MR. CliATRMMJ: The hon. the Mintster of Health . DR. COLLINS: r4r'. Ch,:qir'Hidrl, l c:-Hn not:: go "i. ng t.:o try to convince thE! hon. LE!i.ildE!r of thE! Oppos i.'L:i.on ol·:hE!r'tAri.s€=! l·.·.han t~.Jhal: he just stated.

If he has decided thdt i.s the wr:-1y he i.s goLng to look on it, it is a freE• count1ny, 1 f.! 1:. h 'i. rn do :i. t . n ll T d 1n !; d y "i. n g L s that the NeiA.JfoundJand Government f>t:·d.d otti 1:o I\ILHC $'1.50,000 <H' $160,000, or· whal :.e ver 'it tAta s NLHC t."m s c h ;:n· g i n g go tHH' n 1 n f~ n i: f o r' l:: h C::' l a n d , 1.'1 n d i ·t Ut E:Hl p a :i d o u t . t. o a cont-:r·Mcl:or· !r,a~;o,ooo l··.o S('!r't .J ice l·hp land, so that the total packet <Hided lip i:n $l nri .ll ·i.on, t~Jh·ich tJ.JdS part of its equity in Ne~.a.~ounclJand FntJ·i r·opon i c ~; 1\1 m~J i f i: h ,,:! h on . t.r·) <·\ cl C::! r· o F thE=! .

Opposition says that someone s hottld hi .'l.lJ

t) gone 011l: .:-1ncl dppr', :\ 'L ~; Hci the land d'..i ffE:1I"C:1ntJ.y, t.hat :is his op"i.n ·ion iHlci he ·j~:; tJ.w 'lcotne i ... o i.l·:, A J J I c a n s a y i s ·1:. hat h e k no tAl s a s tJ.J e "1.1 . "' ~; r d o t: h "' 1.: ·i i::- y o u s e ll a housc:1, there js no fJXE!d val.UE:1 on 1·. h (:' l·w 1.1 s l:! . T h ('!

F :i. x o. d v "'l u e on 1:·. he house is what someone pays for ·i. 1... . rl n d I· he p r· 'i. c e o n c.~ 1 n '.i. g h t p u t on a house when you go to the Hldt'!<el:, i.S IAJhdt . i:he fel.lOlAJ dOtJ.Jn the street sold his house for and what SOrri(:!OI'H~ lip l:.he slo:r·~~E·I:: sold h.is hOUSE! for·, IA.Jhich might bE:' E=!nt .i l"E!}y d ·i. r-F (;! r' c:~ n t: ·r r· orn '"'h <:11: a r~- C:! ll otAJ 1:-.tAJO sLr'eets OVE:!r sold h:is house rOt". :') o i i: · i ~; i·11l r' (:! l '" i: (~ cl 1 .. o 1·.: h n b 1.1 y (;• r' and the seller, There is no pr'.ice i\lo (i 9 [~3976

or· val UP 'of J c.<tnd as t. hE:1 hon. lfH:Hu/ :)<'! t' 'i.s suggE:':>I:i .ny. lie ·L!> s tJ g g e s t. :i n g t h a t t h E:'r' E:1 i s a v a ltH1 f. o r· ·1 r:-1 n d , ·-i_ t i. ~; w o r· k E! d o 1 1 1-. i. n doll~rs and that is the end of 'i. t . T h (H' c;! i_ s no s u c h Ul'.i . n g . T h e value of li:tnd ::is tJ.Jhat a SE!ller and a buyer rlecide one will let the land go for and the other one will pur·chas~:! 'i.t. for·. In t.h-i.s pi:lri::.i.culdr' cas(>., 1\JI .. HC s,;,j_cJ WE:' tAriJJ g::ive thE:~ gover·nment.

Uds lcHld for· Uw Vi:ll11E:1 l:hd ·l: I~JE! p11 L ]n-to i-1-. lt~E:' havt'~ done no-t:hing IAJ i. 1:h ::hE! 1 and in l-h~) 111ean :: ·i.IIIE!, ~~JE! hau(~ fi"O/.en thli:1 J dnd and it cannot· b e 1.1 s t~ cl f o r· o:1 n 1J o t h c-:~ ;-· p 1 1 r· p o !; c-) . rt: -i:> like Uw l.dncl ·i_n p·ippy Pi;,( I" I<. You rn::i gh-t-. say I sornecHlE:1 has .-1 hOII!)l~' c:/OIMI"l Orl F:li .'l.dbcl·.h ,:)t)(!l'lllec' cllld t/1€~ Jdncf dOIAII'l 't:hl::lr'(~ is IAJOY''Lh $60,000 r~m · ;,, 1:1-ri.r·: .y Foot: l.ul:. ln -t-h(~ PJppy Pal"k 1 ju ~; t. i:ICI"OSS t:hCo!

I;.Jd':J 1 U1c11 : ha:; no ·U1ing l:o du IJ.J'ii:h j t I it ~is fr·o:z(:!l1 J and. T11 -t-hP ScHlie 14Jt'!Y I th::i s land t.uas ~; (:1 q 1.1 ~~ ~d: c~! t' r:1 d b 1J N I H C . r o cl o L h c1 1: ~Lt cos-L $11:)0,000; Ji·.·. t~Jas not: gofng 1-: o usc,~ ·i_ ·1·. for· d n y pur· posE! o 1': her· thc.Hl t hJ s parU cuJ ar purpose, and Lt . llo11 ·: ·i.t go for th.:<ti.: val.UE:!. Now the hon. the L E•ader of the 0 p p o s i. ~~-i. o n h d s d d i. f f e r· c?. n +.: o p i. n -i. o n on ~it. He i.s IAJE!l.corne to jt, and I ,;, Hl s tH' c,1 on CO! t.u·i .ll. rw tl('!r' shakE:' h J. rn f r· om it .

I i'.l m j u s t tel J. in g him the fdc~s of ~he case. MR . ~~U .I..S : Rc-1f or·E:1 you ~~ j t dOIAin I .:Hl S I~JE:~ r• 0 1'l C! liHH' (~ Clf .l C:! :; :_ ·i_ 0 n? Df~. COI.I.f/\/S : y l':! ~; . Ml~ . IIIJF" I I.~) : IJ.J'i ]_] you ~-,Jhlj 1>10111 d 1\lt:)l!ifOIII'lc/l ;\il!J ;uld l .. al:n·ador· l-lousjn~J spe'l' ld $1~)0 1000 PXpr·o~ll'·· ·i;-11·. ·ing IISC:•lf!S:; -li-'tl'ld? I 3 977 July 6, J988 Vo1 XI DR.

COl I INS: h~ hy cl'i d 1\J Ul C b 1.1 y 1. ct n cl a n d f i_ F b~ <0! n yec:uns latE!!" not: do i:-lnyth:i.ng tJ.ri l~.h L i: ? 1111 h y d :J. d t-. h r:• y IAJ <'t n 1: t·. o s -i. t. o n land for fifteen year·s and not do any+:hJng tAJi .l·h i.t? They dc,1ci.ciE!d that they were not going to do any~hi.ng with the l.dnd. MR. J. CARTER: Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN : r h t-~ h o n . t-. h t! 1 n e HJI:l E! r· f o r· ~:) I~ . J o h n ' ~:; NOI"'lh . MR. J.

CAr~TFI~ : I. o o i( I 1: he :-. r· ''' n :; f 1::! r· oF l dnd Fi"OlTl on!':! govEH'nment agE!ncy -to anc.d heH' i:; no:: HH:· :;.--,rne 1· h:i . ng 1'1 ~; tl"ansf(:11"l"ing land on thE:! fi"E''H rn;u·kel-. Th<=ti: ·i:; -l:I-

H) F·ir·!;:: Hli .n'=:J. T h E~ s E:' c o n d t h j n g i. ~; t-h a ·I· -t- h <-=> h o n . gc:!rd:l1~1fli'li'l OI•Ji 'l:; •. -'t ho11•:;c-:! Jn i.IH~ centre of St John's lhf.ll is :zoned n:!~;·i .r!c)f'li.'i.i·\l . 1\JOIAJ i.F by SOlfli'' ChdnCE:~ :it IAJE~r·e to be• l"e':ZOI'lE!cl c:onmler··i.c;·ll, i.f h'i.~; p··i.ece oF pr·operty jnstE:~ad of being 1ocat<:'d I;.Jh(:H'l,~ ·i_t: ·i:> I;Jd!; l.ocr.1l·c'!d on l.he corner of Elizabeth Avenue and Por·t.t.l9d1. Covt~! ;:?oacl, ·it: would br;! worth roughly fiVE! tirnE!S tJ.Jhat: 'it. ·i. S IAJ<H' 1: h .

The hon. gE!ntJ.ernan 1.uouJ.d certain] y b c~! t. h c,, f ·i. r· s t o n <'' l: o a g , .. Eo!~=· ~~-he r· e that. for soiTIE! r'E!ason or ot.hE!r', the CoiJnc·i.l. ·Jn 1--.hi~; c--LI-y, tAJh~:!n 1-.h~:!l"e arE! cor·nel" Jots, thE!Y soniE!how wi11 d 1 l OIAJ l on i n g ·1: o c l'hHl9 <'> d n cl y o u g e l: . I . I s C:' I" u :1 c e s t C.l :] on s on (o! a c -, co I" 1'1 o In; ·i_ 't-. h ;q :; h ,:-1 p p r-:! n e:! r:l on 1--. he cot' n f:! I" of Nc,~t ...

Jfoundli'-.lnd O!"~ive cll'ld Por· ·l-uga) Cot.Jr:! l?oc:'\c/ 1 ·i i·. h•-~~; hdppun( -:!cl un -l::hf'! coJ"I'IE:!r of Fl:izabE:1-Lh Avenue and f>or · L11(_ji·1l. CUIJC! f?C::i·lcl, i'tnd i : .: h<'l~; aJ so happenE!d on t-he C:OI"I'lE''I" no 1.. l t>O 1.-n-· i-r·o111 l·.hc -'! hon. -I·. he I erqdr:.l' '· of t h E:! 0 p p o s :i t. j_ o n ' s h o u s e j -t s e J. f , r··j tjhi ... ,j·_ I i·H:! I Clfl of r~ob ·i.n:;on Is H:iJJ. Tf the! p!"OPe'l"ty I4Ja s ZOI'IE:!d rl · i f f' ::: r· <-:! rl i ly , I h n n I h c-:• I e i'1 d e r· o f No . 69 rn 977

~:he Oppos 'l 1: i.un IAJoul.d be absol.l .lh!l.IJ CCH'Y'E!C l, This goE~s back to 1972, and I i·: h ·i n k I· he ::.:-1 l. e :> f .:wri .l y I)JP r· c t r· e e:d : E~ d q u :U· o g EHH:' r· o u s J. y . J am s I II"(:~ i L I~Jc'l s n () I: i·\ IAJ i 'I 1 i rt g 1-. t' ;q n :; r e r· 0 f p I" 0 p E! I" t y , b E~ C a U S E~ t h EH' E! i S cHI e )( p ;· o p r· i ,.lJ i o n o r· c:l e ;· . r f H1 c y h ,., d 1~dJJ:i119lY petr·tE:·d 1.~-l:i.th t'1'1E! ]r.Hld, i:rWI 'C:~ l.lJOtlld hi~l!f! bC!CrJ no t·! x pI" o pI'' :i c~ t-:i o 11 .

T I ri ~; go v E-! r· rm1 (! n l~ , •. utd T 1-1111 t.J~::!r'y f>r'OIId l:o :><·11) !;o, whE·!riE:!lJ81" j t he~s Co!Xpi"Opl":i Clho!d 1 cll'ld i I. h.·\!; o:1.lt,~.~o-,y:; IISt~d Lht' pr··i.nci .pl () i·l hotEE! for· r..t house. Now it is har·d I: 0 (:' X ~~ fl. n cl [-. h d ·1: 1·: 0 , p C"! r· h r'1 p ~; , ·l-. h ·i. t' 1·: 1j acres, but they still have done i.t. fn oi.:hc>.t' IJ.Jor·d~;, l::hey h<'ltJ(! saJd what would be the cost of buyi.ng thirty acres, twelve hectares, or· whatE!Ver it is, of 1 a n d t n a c o rn p d r· a b l.

Cc! a t' e c:t :.i. n t: h i. s totAJn or· jn this atnE!cl, and they paid l:.hE>. pc->.t'son accor·d:i ngl.y. H11t whE'n it IJ.Jas bought j t:. was bought as far'llt1<'lnd; 1-.hco! Lon i.ng IAJas rH-~V(!t' chclnged. And, by thE! · t.~-Jay, no+: only tJJas 'i.l ... bog lr:-1nc:l, :i.l.: ,qlso h.:ul cHI Co!Xll"i:l.Or·d:ini.H'Y amount of rock sl..ick·ing t.tp 1·.hr'0119h "i.i:. So l:hn irnpr·ovc::'ri!E:!nts, T th:i nk, cost rc.l'l :her lllC:>r't! Ul•Hl $1P)0, 000. (\ild Mt'. Spr·ung hJmsE~Jf toJd filE! that thE!

C 0 ~; i·. !; i·\ ~; !) 0 C i i'l h:~ d tAri 1·. h ·i.lllfH' 0 lJ ·j 1'1 ~ that J.and 1~1er·e far· beyond what ·i.n i.l:·i ;~l ~~n~ ·i.nt'!f!t' i ng !> l:tlrl it)~= · :indicatE!d, so t.hE't'E:~ has b~~E-HI a l.ot­ 0 r n1 0 1'1 (:! y p 0 I I t' C.:! cl f j l l i 1'1 g ' b J (~ s l :i 1'1 g ·i n I·. o i:lnd c:1 n d .:~ l 1 l: h c r· c,, :; 1·. o F i :-. l.rollc:k·i.ns, buJldoz:ing C .:tppr't':.'C ·j d"Le l:ho·\'1: l:hl::!

I E:~i'ldE!t' of t-1· 1 e 0 p p o s i t· :i. o n h cl ~' t. o n 1 a k E' s om e p o l. 'i. 1:. ·i. c c:-1 l. p o oi. n 1··. s , b u I· ·i. r [ t: h o 1.1 g h ·I: for· onE:· m :i n u l: E' that he l" C'! a 11 y bE!l. ·i.E!VPcl l.lJhd +. h(~ IAJilS sayi .ng, I IAJO u 1 d s u g g e s l that hE! give up h :i. s l.aiAJ pr·acl:. ·ice dnd l::ur·n i.n h·is cr(~dC'!ITL:ials, or· h:is ghEH•pskin or IAJhatevc:!r' -i. 1. is I··. hey hd~JE!, l··.E!dr' down his name pli:!te and try his b C'! s I~ t. o r· (:!me~ ·i. n d s I to!"' de r· of I~ h c,, U97B July 6, '1.988 Vol XI 0 p p o s i. t Jon for· t.: hE! r· E:! s r. of h ·i s carPer.

Now I can assure him that IAI(.} IAri .l.l do 011r' ~H:!s ·l: l".o pi"Oinob:! t:.h:is changE! :in h:is s l:i:li:us . J-1~:! can be:' I ('!i·Hit:!t' or Hl(! Oppo:;·i .l·::i on r=-or· dS long as hE~ wants, and I t.~.Jil] ~;tlppc:wl·. h·itn ·in J-.h;:1l: l"ole Fr·orn dny direction possible . MR. CUI..LAGF: 1\-1 i" . S p E' d k ::! r· . r-1f~ . SPFni<U~: The hor1. thE~ mE!rTlbE!In fot" Wai.lc~l"fOJ"cl i< (:! l'llfiO II i'l1· .. MR. GUI..I .ACE : Mr. Cha::L rman, just to ptu· suE! t.I·H:! l.i .l'lE' of qtHo!Si: ·i.oni .ng [::-Ot' c:t liiOtnPnl::, the member for St. John's North ( M r· .

Cdr· t E:~ r·) j us t-. lfli:'l d ,,, an interesting comment, that the ljOlJE:H'rlHl(!rll.: hdS <.·1li~Jr:·lljS ·i ... di<f~rl i.:he stand of a house for a house. WhE:Hl you considE!r that that land, VcllliNI Sl .lflflOSCc!dly dl: $]!)0,000 i.n 19'73, lAJould in no l.1.1ay be valued al: $1.rjo,ooo l·:oci•:·11J bc.:!c<:111SE:! 1 .• 1e dr'e only talking about $5000 pc;qn dCI"E:!, 1~1h·i ch ·i.s ;~l.mo::~ 1: r·J.d ·i.clllou:;. TF you are tal.U ng about. ct house for i·1 h!) I I ~; ('! ' I h t·:!

I: t' i ·\ 1'1 s FE' I" lJ .-11 I I ~::• I•J () u 1. d l·lclVE:! t.O be-:> at· J.pa(;"l.,, l IAIOU]cl ~'"~9f!!; I·, d I. l.l ·:!iq!d ·. in i11r:~ 'J i ci.ni l·y of $r:,oo,ooo, E:!Ut::!n :if you ju~d IAli-lnl~)d Lo l.i·lkc-:! d wi .n·in1<-1l. ·i.nfl.::ti:i .un value and apply t::o lhe original ~!> l so' 000 MR. Wf:I..I .S : I do not knot~J jf I: h t::! c or· r· e c I: F i ~ 11 r· (! r"'R. CUI .. IJlCF : t:hE! $JSO,OOO L•Jas WhatevE•Y' it t•Jas, :if you apploiecl l: hE! p r· ·i. n c 'i p 1 e , d s 1·: he rn e 111l:w r· h a s said, of a houSE! for a housE•, thE!n l .. hE:! Ur:·11 .t.l(:!

Or 1-.hiA 1·. land IAJOuJ.d l'ldlH! to be considerably higher than '.i. n d {:! (~ d IAic:l s cl H f:! 1 I o d o v P l'·· 1:-. o I~ h i s Sprung group of companies at $1.')0,000 . No. 69 inCJ 'i' g

DR . CO 1.1. l :'>.!~) : ltJhcd vi'.IJ up would bE:~ put: on, say, i·.h'i.r·l:y ac:r't:!:; of s~~t'tJi,;.::d li'lnd? M R . GU 1_1_ A c; E: : J wouJ cl th:i nk th:i rty acn~s of s e:~ t' v i. c r:: d l. "'' n d t;..J o ul d b ~~ "i. n t: h t;: vicinity of $1 million or more. Dr~. COLI.lNS : Right, so that is it. MR . GUI L.AGF.: B u t. i. f T h ~:: c'l r· cl AN HON. MF.M~1 F R: (Tnaud:ibh:) . DR. COU.lNS: [ 1: t~li'l :; no I· :; ~~ r·

t) i ,; c:: cl . MR.

GU U .ACF: Tf :T hc,~ctt"d thE, - f)ppu'l.y Pr·E~m:i E:•r .: or·r"'~ c 1.1 y i. n Uli·l t -Hll) i-HilOit n I dpp]:iPd t.ua~; Jn thE~ vic:i.n:1! ·y of $1 uri .ll Lon, b11i: i.i: '•li'l :; de c ided ·Hri .·ll: $F.o,ooo ro~.JouJd bE) ~~~;ed, gr·cmted $1.f)0 I 000 l~lr.l :; 1-. hE! 1: r· iHl :; r r·::t ' i:HilO II n I·_ bettAJeen NPtJJfoundJ i'.lnd ctnd I. abr"ador I lou: ; i ng ;~nd Hit:! got;:H'tltriE:HJ1:, btt1: u~dng the $J.f:,o,ooo c.Htd thE:n saying U1e11 .: i.nfr ·asi:r'ttci:ttt'E:~ I.~Jr'l:> cnnsidrc:t ·r:>cl to be +he other $850 1 000, well, if ·i.n fdcl: l:ht': J.c'lncl ·i.s r;Jor·Hl a l.ol: rt1on: than $E>0,000, even if it is only a dol.l.dr' 111ore, rny conc~:::r·n 'i.s we are not talking about a s ·i t u d t i o n tJJ l"t e r· E: g o v e r· I'll II e n t. o n l. y i. ~; involved.

To say that you can t. r' a n s f' c,~ r· i n I: h -i_ s s i. t u a I: i. o n , t h r~ samE:' as you tJJould bc,~tt.~JE~en go v ~~ r· 1'11111·:: n t cl c,~ par· !::tnc": n ~: s I t~Jh r.:: r· r.:: t;Jc,~ have i'.l person involved from the f r· c': t": llli:U' I< E: 1-. s t;! c hH' , t-_ h c;: ~=) p r·t.r n g 9l"OUp of compan:ic,~s, jn pctl.,tnE:~l.,sh:ip IAJ "L L h H1 1-:: 9 o v c': n111re n L, i :; b 1 .• :'11'. •Hl 1·. l. y t.1.1r · c111 g , bE:: c au s E:: you a r· e s ct y j n g you t1Jil.l . i:r'dnsfr':r· •. ~1: i'l lJer·y m"i.tTi .llli:ll u i::l J lH :' , d :1 9 7 3 v a l u e , i f y o u c~ c CE~ p -L $1~)0,000 d~;:;11nte il. i.~; ~;1r)0,000 for.. d n to IW ·' n l y o u rn c.'.t I< e t h c': ITiHl~;F:::r · i·1i: l:hi ~ll. lJi~l.lll(! i·lnrl d-11 of 1-hE: dddf~d VdltJP I t~thi::t 1-E''VE~r· :it j s, I :)<)79 .J11ly 6, 19Bil

l) o'l X I 11!1 ·1 f:' I 1-11-~ t' i I. ·i. !; 1; ·1 00 or· $1P)0 , 000 , !Ali 1.1 be s h a r l~~ d j n t h e f u t tH' c,, , d ~) p to: n d i n g on UH:: b I": :'.:~ k r:l otAII'l of s h f1 r P s :i n t. he j o :i n t. vent: u I'' E: , by Hw :>r>r·IH19 fH:'oplcc:, <'lncl [ l:.hJnk that is wrong. Thi'lt is blati'ln t.1.y ~~Jro ny. AddE:d to thi'lt you are Sc lying i n f r· d s t r u c 1: u t" e "i. s o n '1-o p o f t.: h r::! ~~ l million, assuming the 1.and has a valuP of $1. rni .1Ji .on . ~)o tAlc-?. ar·E: talking $3. S m:illj_on. AssumE: for· d rnouwnl·: !':hal-.

Lt 'Ls $1. mi.lJ·ion dncl :it is dE:'emecl to be a $1. m.i1Jion V .::1 l1 I ~! b (~ C C\1 .1 S E! S ~:! r· V ·j C: 1:~ S IAl e r• (! f: 0 1·: h E! site, and now :if I heard the

I) l'!flll -1: y P t' 1;: 1 wi r;: r' etH' r· e r: 1:.1. y , y o u •u· e add:ing infrastructure co st:s , cl ,.:: tJ ::~ l. o p mE: n 1: co~; I·. s , d n d r" 11 n n .in g i:: h r:: JjnE:~s lo ·!-hE:~ bu:i.Jd:i .ng~;, and so on, o n I. o p o f I: h ;:) I. ;:l g ,., i_ n , 11 n l C:! s :; T ~ward h:irn v.wong . AN l-ION. MFMElFR : No . MR. CIJ 1.1.(\Cf. : Ol<ay .

If t hal :is not t;..JI·tat hE· ~:;a .. i d 1-.h(:n, ,,,u dt'(! bdck l:o ·!:he Vdl.IIE' of:­ the land I s o 1 e t u s s t a y t~ri L h l:h<Jl: . 11:;SIII'IIE:~ ·i_i· . :i.: :; $1. rni.llion, or· $500,000, whatevE•r :.it is OVE!r and a b o v c~~ t h d t rwi. n i Hlc.·l l v a l. u e transferred over to !::he Sprung gro11p oF coHrpani.t'!s, whatever· l::he difference :is, it is goi