British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 4, 2011

H0504pm-13

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 39th Parliament official rePort of Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari Soff, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 Afternoon Sitting Volume 20, Number 13

Pro Vince of britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l.

Point, obc Third Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker of the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil .............................................................................................................. h on. c hristy c lark Deputy Premier and Minister of finance ............................................................................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation ...........................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of a dvanced e ducation .................................................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Minister of a griculture ........................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Don Mcr ae a ttorney General ........................................................................................................................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc Minister of c hildren and f amily Development ................................................................................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of c ommunity, Sport and cultural Development .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of e ducation .........................................................................................................................................................h on.

George a bbott Minister of energy and Mines and Minister r esponsible for h ousing.........................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of environment ....................................................................................................................................................h on. Dr. t erry l ake Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations......................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson Minister of h ealth .................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation ................................................................................................................................... h on. Pat bell Minister of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government .............................................................................. h on.

Stephanie c adieux Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond Minister of Social Development and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism ............................................................ h on. h arry bloy Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ................................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ......................................................................................................................................................a drian Dix Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker ..................................................................................................................................................................Dawn black Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole ...................................................................................................................................Douglas h orne c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ............................................................................................................... craig h.

James (on leave) c lerk a ssistant and a cting c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................. k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary l enz

alP habetical liS t of MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, bill (l) .............................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, iain (l) .............................................................. Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h on. h arry (l) ............................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-fleetwood c adieux, h on. Stephanie (l) ................................................Surrey-Panorama c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c handra h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ................................Vancouver–West end c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, Murray (l) ..............................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... f ort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) ..............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on. Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington f alcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale f arnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake f oster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee f raser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, c olin (l) ............................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, k ash (l) ................................................................ Vancouver-fraserview h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de f uca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, kevin (l) ............................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, h on. Dr. t erry (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................f raser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, Dr. Margaret (l) ......................................... Vancouver-fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on. Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–f alse creek Mcr ae, h on.

Don (l) ................................................................... c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry, Qc (l) ....................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (ind.) .....................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, ben (l) ..................................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, Dr. Moira (l) ......................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon.

Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant ...............................................................................Vancouver–Point Grey liS t of MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .......................................................................r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ......................................................h on.

Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott f raser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ...................................................................h on. h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope .......................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley...........................................................................h on. Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis f ort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman f raser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de f uca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on.

Dr. t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ...................................................... k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast ....................................................................................bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike f arnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam ...................................................................... iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands .....................................................

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine ........................................................................................Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Surrey-fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................ h on.

Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ........................................................................... Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-fairview ................................................ Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–f alse creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-fraserview ........................................................................k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara .................................................................Dr.

Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ..........................................Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ...............................................................................Vacant Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................................... c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ...............................................Spencer c handra h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric f oster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna .............................................................................ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 48; n ew Democratic 34; independent 2; Vacant 1

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 4, 2011 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 6595 introduction and first r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 6595 bill 6 — civil f orfeiture a mendment a ct, 2011 h on.

S. bond Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 6596 invasive plant control b. bennett Mental illness awareness D. black c ommunity of Spuraway r . Sultan Protection of water resources M. Mungall a lbert baldeo n. l etnick f arm for a Y ear project in Maple r idge M.

Sather oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 6598 Services for developmentally disabled persons S. Simpson h on. h. b loy n. Simon s M. k aragianis Panel report on impact of harmonized sales tax b. r alston h on. k. f alcon D. Donaldson c abinet committee on open government D. r outley h on. S. c adieux enbridge oil pipeline proposal M.

Sather h on. r . c oleman Orders of the Day c ommittee of the Whole h ouse ............................................................................................................................................ 6603 bill 4 — h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) i nitiative Vote and referendum a ct b. r alston h on. b. Penner b. Simpson r eport and Third r eading of bills ......................................................................................................................................... 6609 bill 4 — h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) i nitiative Vote and referendum a ct

c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 6609 e stimates: Ministry of Jobs, t ourism and innovation h on. P . bell J. kwan G. Gentner V . huntington S. c handra h erbert Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 6632 e stimates: Ministry of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government h on. S. c adieux D. r outley

6595 WeD neSD a Y , MaY 4, 2011 The h ouse met at 1:37 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. Introductions by Members V . Huntington: i'm pleased to be able to introduce two constituents of mine today, Mr. c liff Matsen and Mr. Peter Veness. These gentlemen are self-described political junkies and hope that question period is its normal raucous self. May the h ouse make them welcome. R. Hawes: in the gallery today we have Gayle Martin, who is the chair of the Metro Vancouver park board and a councillor in l angley.

We also have Wendy Dadalt, who is on staff with Metro Vancouver, and David u rban, who is on staff with f raser Valley regional district. They're here today to meet with members of the gov - ernment caucus regarding the e xperience the f raser project, which is a project that is joint between the two regional districts and the government to build a trail along both sides of the f raser r iver. c ould the h ouse please give them a great welcome. M. Elmore: i'd like to introduce a lexandra c apistrano, who's joining us here today.

She's completing her mas - ter's in immigration and settlement studies at r yerson, and i'm very pleased that she's joining me working in my office this summer. i ask that everybody please give her a warm welcome. M. Dalton: in the h ouse today, visiting us from Maple r idge, are students from Thomas h aney sec - ondary school. They're accompanied by their teachers Steve h ussey, Jan Godfrey, Mark biggar, c hris c onnelly and Scott Mcc afferty. This is their sixth trip to Victoria. e very year they find this to be a real hit.

My oldest son graduated from this school. it's an excellent school. it's based on self-paced learning. Would the h ouse please make them feel welcome. B. Bennett: i'd love to introduce my wife, beth, but i can't because she's not here. but what i wanted to say is that today is our 37th wedding anniversary. i met my wife 43 years ago on a blind date, and all of our friends say she must have been blind. She's going to be reviewing this later, so i send her all my love. [1340] Hon. M. de Jong: Pam Gardner is here from burnaby.

She is an orthotist and operates burnaby orthopaedic Source inc., a r otarian and someone who has contrib - uted mightily to community service in her community. i hope all members will make her welcome. S. Fraser: i don't know who they are, but whenever we have this many young people in the audience, i want to acknowledge them. Thanks for coming today, whoever you are, and welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill 6 — ciVil forfeiture aMenDMent act, 2011 h on. S. bond presented a message from h is h on- our the a dministrator: a bill intituled civil f orfeiture a mendment a ct, 2011. Hon. S.

Bond: i move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. S. Bond: i am very pleased to introduce the civil f orfeiture a mendment a ct. The proposed amendments create a new administrative forfeiture process. With these changes, british c olumbia will be the first prov - ince with civil and administrative forfeiture processes, giving us the broadest range of tools for combatting un- lawful activities in our province.

Since 2006 the existing civil forfeiture process has proved to be an overwhelming success, resulting in the forfeiture of nearly $17 million in illicit property and cash. During this time it has become apparent that in nearly one-third of the cases individuals do not contest or even respond to the notice of forfeiture. This new process will allow forfeiture of personal property and cash valued at $75,000 or less and will apply only in those cases where no one responds to the notice of forfeiture. it does not apply to real estate.

This process will enhance the capability of the civil for- feiture office to remove the economic incentives stemming from unlawful activities more efficiently and to specifically deal with the low-value property commonly seized from drug dealers, gang members and other organized-crime groups. it will also result in reduced legal and administrative costs, which will result in additional moneys being available to fund crime prevention and remediation efforts and en- sure safer communities for families in british columbia. Mr.

Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the or - ders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today.

british c olumbia Debates6596 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 bill 6, civil f orfeiture a mendment a ct, 2011, intro - duced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) inV a SiVe Plant control B.

Bennett: i'm speaking today about one of my fa - vourite topics: weeds. i need to make clear that i'm not talking about the k ootenays' famous — or infam - ous, depending on your point of view — consumer product but about that nasty leafy pestilence whose implacable tentacles reach right into the very heart of b.c.'s wilderness.

Wherever a horse defecates, an at V rides, a logging truck drives or soil is disturbed, this green scourge can be inadvertently advanced hither and thither, leaving in its wake a colourful but toxic pasture that chokes out our natural plants and reduces our once diverse nat - ural grasslands to feckless, fruitless, futile fields filled with foreign freaks. The public needs to understand that this is a serious environmental problem. l ast week government made a very positive announcement about the creation of a $3 million t ake a ction program focused on prevention.

While i applaud that decision, i urge those ministers with responsibility to continue funding the annual inva- sive control done by the various regional invasive plant councils around the province. This government set up the invasive plant councils across the province in ac - knowledgment that the spread of these vile plants is a profound environmental problem. Some of these weed species cannot be eradicated. They just can't be. They can only be controlled by annual treatments, and their propagation rates rival c harlie Sheen. Some seeds can germinate after 60 years of dor - mancy.

Missing a year of treatment or even treating too late in the summer is fatal to our long-term attempt to control the massive, diverse infestation underway today. l et's not allow the insidious, relentless march of inva- sive plant species across our beautiful landscape to take the "natural" out of "Super, natural b.c." [1345] Mental illneSS a WareneSS D. Black: This week is the 60th anniversary of Mental h ealth Week in c anada. The next time you're in a lineup or at the supermarket or a bus stop, look around and consider these facts. t wo of every ten people in our country have or will have a mental illness.

Mental ill - ness can affect anyone at any time. it is the leading cause of hospital stays. Suicide is the second-leading cause of death for b.c. youth aged 12 to 18. Depression is ranked as the leading cause of disability worldwide. The c anadian Mental h ealth a ssociation, founded in 1918, is one of the oldest voluntary organizations in c anada. The c Mha advocates for those with mental illness to reduce the stigma and to encourage equal - ity of opportunity and inclusion.

My community of n ew Westminster has been well served by the c Mha 's Simon f raser branch. t o mark Mental h ealth W eek, they're holding a Miles for Mental h ealth r un on Saturday, May 7, in Queen's Park. i'll be joining participants to walk in support of those facing mental health challenges. i'm also collecting dona- tions through the event's website at mentalhealthrun.ca. i want to thank my colleagues who've already supported me in this.

The proceeds from the walk will help fund housing, employment training and community outreach programs. i encourage the members of this h ouse and all british c olumbians to use Mental h ealth Week as a reminder to each of us to reach out to those who are living with mental illness. They, like everyone else, have the po - tential to participate in the workforce, depending on their own abilities, experience and motivation. it's up to all of us to help ensure their full potential is realized in our society. co MMunit Y of SPura Wa Y R.

Sultan: l ast month i helped constituents celebrate the 100th anniversary of Spuraway, a large home on the banks of the c apilano r iver and a hub for a complex of 176 strata homes. This quiet corner of my community is close to trails, parks and shopping. Spuraway is multicultural — british lumber money, a sian roofline, b.c. log house walls, Japanese carpentry and an aboriginal fireplace. it's one of the oldest build - ings in West Vancouver, having served as a farmhouse; an equestrian centre; and a family home to the Mahons, the McDermotts and the Gibsons.

The centenary committee compiled Spuraway's rich history. The birthday party featured top hats; the Peirsons' 100-year-old r olls-r oyce; and stories from Val McDermott, Gordon Gibson and others who grew up there. There's a connection to this l egislature.

Gordon Gibson Sr., one of the owners, was a hard-drinking logger elected b.c. l iberal Mla in 1953. h e's famous for his speech in these chambers declaring that money talked in the granting of forestry tenure. f or that, the l ands and f orests Minister spent 28 months in what we used to call the crowbar hotel. h e was also famous for losing both his logboom and his float home, with his wife still in it, heading off to Japan in a violent storm. h e had to make a choice. h e chose the logboom. Gordon Jr., his son, a scholar and author and also a b.c . l iberal M la and leader of our party, lived in

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6597 Spuraway. Gordon c ampbell asked Gordon Jr. to recommend a new voting system, and he did, author - ing our epic citizens' a ssembly. So Spuraway and its residents have many tales to tell. i ask you to salute its next 100 years. Protection of Water re Source S M.

Mungall: "We are more influential than we think." These are the words of cbc r adio 3 host l ana Gay at my Women and Water talk show on March 22, World Water Day. [1350] o ver the course of an hour my guests — Gwen barlee, azita a rdakani, k aren Sander and l ana Gay — talked about the importance of water in our everyday lives. There was certainly a lot to talk about, including the im- portance of drinking water. f rom May 1 to 7 it is Drinking Water Week here in b.c. Several municipalities have also made special proc - lamations for this week, including the town of creston.

During this week organizations like the b.c. Water and Waste a ssociation invite british c olumbians to get to know your h 2o. f or example, Gwen barlee at Women and Water noted that most c anadians think they use 60 litres of water each day. The truth, however, is much larger. The average c anadian uses 329 litres of water every day; the average british c olumbian — now brace yourself — 490 litres of water every day. in the k ootenays we use even more. So we do have a lot to learn about when it comes to our h 2o.

More often than not, we take it for granted, but it is not an infinite resource, nor is its travels to our taps and away from our drains a matter of simple engineering. t o help people get to know their water issues, my staff and i have put together a top ten list of things you can do to protect water. That list is available on my website and on womenandwaterforum.ca. on the list you will find drinking tap water over bottled water and sweeping your driveway instead of watering it. i should also warn members of the h ouse that the number one item on this list of top ten is to write your elected representative.

So during this first week of May have a glass of cool, refreshing water and think about where it comes from. enjoy. albert balD eo N. Letnick: Mr.

Speaker, in every community across this great province there are men and women whose love for service above self leads the casual observer to find remarkable their dedication for their fellow man. r ev. a lbert baldeo of k elowna was such a man. originally from t rinidad, a lbert could brighten up a room with his enthusiastic yet mischievous smile. n ot one of the thousand-plus friends who gathered to celebrate a lbert's life on Sunday would have been surprised if he popped out of the casket and said: "Just kidding." a s my friend bill r edmond put it, a lbert was a leader of leaders who taught our community how to live and how to die. h is faith in c hrist was equal to a child's faith in their mother — limitless and without reservation. a fter the firestorm hit k elowna, he took broken pieces of pottery around town and gave them to people, saying we would be whole again. h is goal was always to leave people laughing, and he used the simple power of gifts to express friendship and love. one of a lbert's many funny stories included the time he met a blind beggar with an outstretched arm, asking for change. a lbert gave him that change and came back a week later to find the beggar with two outstretched arms.

When he asked why he had two outstretched arms, the beggar said that business was going so well, he thought he would open up a new branch. r everend baldeo was an example for all british c olumbians, a man who lived a life of thanksgiving. on e aster Monday he smiled to his wife beryl, said thank you and passed away.

The people of british c olumbia owe the people of t rinidad a debt of gratitude for lending a lbert to us for so many years. in his final newspaper column he wrote: "Death is not an end. it's just a bend in the road of life." t oday the people of k elowna join his family to celebrate that life and his passing through the bend safely. far M for a Y ear Pro Ject in MaP le riDGe M. Sather: The farming industry is comprised of an aging population these days, with the average age of a farmer in c anada being 60.

There is a crucial need for young people to enter the field as more farmers are set to retire, and the opportunities to learn from a seasoned grower are diminishing. in an era of climate change, peak oil and rising prices it is necessary to localize food production, and young farmers will play a key role in this transition.

That is why it is a breath of fresh air to know there are young people who have taken a risk and begun to farm. a group of five people, average age 30, have started a project called f arm for a Y ear. chris and Julie Moerman, Matt and chantalle Moerman, and chantalle's sister Jocelyn Durston are working hard to convert 2½ acres in Maple r idge to the status of an active farm.

These young people join many other landowners in Maple r idge who are converting their acreages into productive farms. [1355] This picturesque property is being operated on the principles of permaculture for healthy, pesticide-free produce. on their farm you will find a chicken tractor,

british c olumbia Debates6598 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 a mobile chicken pen that allows the chickens to fertil - ize different beds. The farmers have a special interest in heritage and endangered chickens, such as the r ussian orloff and c hinese Silkie. because of its name, f arm for a Y ear may sound like a fleeting attempt at a hobby farm, but c hris assured me their family is invested in the property for years to come.

Judging by their long-term projects — including plant - ing fruit trees, evacuating a pond for fish and focusing on specialty crops such as garlic and mushrooms — they will be getting their hands dirty for a while. one can only imagine the active rural childhoods that baby cousins k ai and c anaan will be fortunate enough to have. Don't hesitate to check out their colourful web- site at www.farmforayear.com. Oral Questions Ser ViceS for De Velo PMentall Y DiSableD P erSonS S.

Simpson: Y esterday in question period the Minister of Social Development tried to tell this h ouse that the community sector was supportive of the b.c. l iberals' direction with c ommunity l iving b.c. n othing could be further from the truth. The b.c . a ssociation for c ommunity l iving issued an immediate alert, repudiating the minister's comments, and their exec- utive director, faith bodnar, sent him a scathing letter. Ms. bodnar's words in her letter sum up better than anything else the situation that the developmentally dis- abled are facing in this province under the b.c. l iberals.

"We must ask ourselves if we are prepared to risk all we have accomplished in the last 55 years because our gov - ernment lacks the vision to invest responsibly in the supports and services they need and deserve." My question to the minister: when will he stop ignor- ing this crisis with c ommunity l iving b.c., with our developmentally disabled and take some action to pro - vide those families and people some hope? Hon. H.

Bloy: i appreciate the british c olumbia a ssociation for c ommunity l iving's ongoing support for c ommunity l iving b.c. — to its staff and its ad - vocacy on behalf of individuals with developmental disabilities. in my meeting with bcacl they did recog - nize how innovative c ommunity l iving b.c . has been over the years. They also expressed to me concerns about service levels, and i can tell you that i take those concerns very seriously. but also, that's why our government has strongly supported c ommunity l iving b.c. with regu - lar funding increases, since its creation in 2005, year after year after year.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. S. Simpson: What did the b.c. a ssociation for c om- munity l iving and Ms. bodnar say about the work that this government has done? This is what they said: "The reality that this legacy is in serious jeopardy should be of grave concern for us all. insufficient funding to c om- munity l iving b.c . has meant reacting to crisis only and the real danger of relegating people to lives of isolation and subsistence as their supports and services are cut." That's the b.c. l iberal reality with c ommunity l iving b.c. There have not been funding increases and general lifts.

This minister tries to tell us that, but he could read this letter as well. a gain, what did Ms. bodnar say when it came to the $13 million that he'll stand up and tell us about in a minute? They said: "i t's targeted at a pilot project that will have no impact on wait-lists. This is why so many new families are coming to us in desperation, having been told that there are absolutely no supports available to them, with no light at the end of the tunnel." That's the reality. Will the minister take some action, close the binder and do something for people who need your help? [1400] Hon. H.

Bloy: c ommunity l iving b.c. is building on decades of progress and hard work with families and advo- cates towards full inclusion of people with developmental disabilities, and i can tell you, hon.

Speaker, it's working. e ach year c ommunity l iving british c olumbia has succeeded in providing more services to increasing num- bers of families, with c ommunity l iving staff and over 3,200 service providers providing services to more than 13,000 families in this province. in fact, we had 766 new families coming into the system that all received service. o n top of that, we had over 1,000 families that received new services that were already in the system last year. Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supplemental. S.

Simpson: it's those 3,200 service providers who are represented by the b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving who are telling this minister that he is failing in his job. That's the reality. This minister's credibility is failing fast. h is state - ments in this h ouse have been repudiated by the people on the ground in the community, by the service provid- ers, by the families, by the people themselves, and he has not offered one single word. This minister has not offered one single word of concern or hope for these people who are desperate.

What are they saying? h e talks about the funding that just keeps getting shaved away and shaved away. So what does the b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving tell us about that? This is what they say about those families: "f amilies who have supports and services are being pit - ted against those who have none and express real fears

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6599 of retribution if they voice their concerns. Surely this is not what we want for people with developmental dis - abilities and their families in british c olumbia." Well, that's not what we want on this side. Will the minister tell us: what does he want, and what's he going to do to deliver it? Hon. H. Bloy: i want to reiterate. Y ou know, last year we serviced 766 new families with services. l ast year we were able to serve an additional 1,000 individuals within the system with new services.

We are changing the way we are providing services to allow for the greatest community inclusion and in - dependence for people with developmental disabilities. These changes continue toward the goal of greater inclusion and independence for people with develop - mental disabilities. N. Simons: This is just another example of the gov - ernment saying one thing and doing something else entirely — all words and no action. in 2004 community living was first introduced.

The minister responsible said the following: people with disabilities would "be able to look forward to a safer, healthier and better quality of life." The minister is the current Premier. Things have not gotten better. They've gotten sig - nificantly worse. The b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving has said the following: "families are coming in to us in desperation, being told that there are absolutely no supports available to them." Will the minister recognize that there is a crisis, and will he tell this h ouse what he's planning to do about it? Hon. H.

Bloy: t o the members across the way and to all british c olumbians, we have increased our budget year after year after year. We have over $700 million, and i want to reassure all british c olumbians that our first concern is for the health and safety of individuals. a gain, i'll reiterate about bringing 766 new individuals into the client base, and they're all receiving services. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Simons: The budget is actually $681 million, and frozen for the next four years. So i'd like to know….

The slogans of "f amily first" certainly don't apply to families with members who have a developmental dis - ability in this province. [1405] The executive director for the association says: "Providing a good life in the community for people with developmental disabilities and their families is being challenged in fundamental ways on all fronts." This flies in the face of this rhetorical flourish, as the minister gives us, and i think the minister needs to take a good look and speak to the people involved and the people who ac- tually are impacted by these service cuts.

Will the minister promise to speak to those involved and take what action is necessary to ensure that people with developmental disabilities in this province get the services that they need? Hon. H.

Bloy: i want to assure all british c olumbians that we're going to work with everybody within c ommunity l iving british c olumbia. o ur first goal is to provide health and safety concerns for individuals with developmental disabilities. i can tell you that my per - sonal goal and our government's goal is to assist these people to the best of our ability that we can. b.c. a ssociation for c ommunity l iving, when i spoke to them, expressed some concerns, and i'm looking for- ward to meeting with them further. M. Karagianis: The minister says that the commun - ity living association has expressed some concerns.

Well, let me say that maybe the minister would take this more seriously if he spent one day as a caregiver, and then he could see exactly what kind of impact these b.c. l iberal callous cuts to community living — the kinds of effects — are having on individuals. f aith bodnar writes: "So many new families are com - ing to us in desperation, having been told there are absolutely no services for them, no light at the end of the tunnel" — no services for these individuals. So i say to the minister, perhaps the minister should step out of the message box over there… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. M.

Karagianis: …and step into the shoes of families experiencing these cuts. What is the minister going to do to undo these reckless cuts and restore dignity and security for these families? Hon. H. Bloy: i want to reassure the members on the opposite side and all british c olumbians that we have made no cuts to this ministry, to this community. i find it hard that providing services to over 13,000 people with a budget of over $700 million…. We're looking after these individuals to the best of our ability, servi - cing those first on health and safety concerns. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M.

Karagianis: Well, the minister has got his facts wrong once again. Some $22 million in cuts, huge wait- lists for vulnerable individuals in this province — is this how this government is putting families first in british c olumbia?

british c olumbia Debates6600 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. M. Karagianis: is this how the b.c. l iberal govern- ment is putting families first in this province? is that the result of this?

So i would ask again for the minister to do the right thing: to step out of the message box, do the right thing, restore services to these families, restore security for these individuals and do that now — make the state - ment today that he is going to undo the cuts and he is going to restore resources to these families on wait-lists so that individuals all over british c olumbia who live with developmental disabilities have a future ahead of them. i want the minister to say that now. Hon. H. Bloy: i want to respond to the member across the way and to all british columbians that we are increas- ing services.

We provided services to 766 individuals and their families last year, new people in the system. We pro- vided services to over 1,000 individuals already in the system last year. We expect to provide services to those…. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat for a second. c ontinue, Minister. [1410] Hon. H. Bloy: We're going to continue to serve as many individuals with developmental disabilities in this province. We're now servicing over 13,000 individuals every year.

This is clearly active — that we are growing and our budget has never been cut. o ur budget has been increased every year, year over year over year. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Panel rePort on iMPact of harM oniZeD SaleS taX B. Ralston: one of the ways b.c. l iberals have un - successfully tried to sell the h St since July 2009 is by talking very loosely about the jobs it might create. The last Minister of f inance hired Jack Mintz, who dubiously claimed it would create 113,000 jobs over the next ten years.

We heard that refrain from every l iberal Mla in speeches here in the legislature and out in the public. The panel report released today estimates it will create just 24,400 better-paying jobs over the next ten years. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. c ontinue, Member. B. Ralston: o f course, the report doesn't mention the number of lower-paying jobs that the h St will destroy as opposed to the better-paying jobs, as the restaurant and tourism industry has pointed out most notably. Will the minister agree that he and every b.c. l iberal Mla misled the public about the job creation effects of the hS t? Hon. K.

Falcon: What the Minister of finance will say is that whether it's 24,000 jobs or whether it's 113,000 jobs, any new job is good for families in british c olumbia. i can tell you that the business community certainly speaks with one voice when they think about what will destroy jobs in this province, and that is the new l eader of the o pposition and his tax trifecta, which will be not only returning to a corporate capital tax but rais - ing small business taxes by 80 percent, by raising general corporate taxes by 20 percent and by going back to the very, very inefficient PSt plus GS t system.

That's what they want to do. We want to grow the economy on this side of the h ouse. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. The Member has a supplemental. B. Ralston: The authors of the report admit it's very difficult to make economic predictions, particularly over the period of ten years. Given that difficulty, will the minister admit that the one clear effect of the hS t will be to make life easier for big business and harder for families and small business? Hon. K.

Falcon: i have been as clear as i could possibly be on the fact that hS t …. f or 80 percent of consumer purchases, there's absolutely no change. The 7 percent PSt they were paying before plus the 5 percent GS t is 12 percent.

There's no change. but i have acknowledged that on 20 percent of consumer spending, you do pay the additional 7 percent. i acknowledge that, and it does generate significant additional revenues for government, particularly in the out-years. [1415] but every day in this h ouse we listen to the members opposite — we just heard it in the previous questions — talk about how they need more money for virtually every single part of government, and then they want to oppose

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6601 a tax that generates additional revenues that support health services, social services and education. D. Donaldson: Well, even their own handpicked panel can't back up this government's grossly inflated claim about the benefits of the hS t . Their claims are so over the top, it reminds me of an old west movie with the snake oil salesman saying: "Get the hS t . it's good for you." This serious drop in job creation prospects with the hS t as categorized in today's report doesn't even include the lower-paying jobs, as in the restau - rant and food industry.

Just today the r estaurant and f oodservices a ssociation says there's been a 15 percent drop in sales in the last year due to this government's policies, including the hS t . t o the finance Minister: will he admit this govern - ment is continuing to mislead the public on how the hS t is affecting jobs in b .c.? Hon. K. Falcon: i acknowledge that there is an impact on the restaurant sector. We always have.

There's nobody that's not saying that there is not some impact on the res- taurant sector, but i think that it might be interesting for the member if the member looks at Stats c anada num- bers that were just released. if the member looks at Stats c anada numbers that were just released today, there are 8,600 more jobs in the food and accommodation sector than there were back in July of 2010. i think it's also very interesting to note that the c onference board of c anada just last week came out with a report that showed that the highest levels of consumer confidence in the country are right here in british c olumbia.

Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D. Donaldson: f irst of all, they weren't going to bring in the h St . Then, a few weeks later, they said it was going to save the economy. n ext, it was more than 100,000 jobs created. n ow it's less than a quarter of that. They just can't be trusted on the hS t , on what they're saying about it. The fact is that the burden of the hS t is on the backs of b.c. families. The report today says that the aver - age family will pay more than $350 per year, and that doesn't even include big-ticket items such as repairing a leaky roof.

The public deserves to know the truth about the h St . a gain to the finance Minister: will he admit they de - ceived the public about the h St in the first place, and will he admit the job creation prospects previously touted by this government are completely false? Hon. K. Falcon: i'm glad the member is quoting from the independent panel, the same independent panel that just mere weeks ago they were saying was a complete waste of time. n ow they've at least come around to acknowledging that it's produced some very good information.

Y ou know, one of the reasons why we're now engaged in a process of listening to british c olumbians on how we might improve the h St and look at how we might ameliorate some of the impacts of the h St — which, the member correctly points out…. The report points out that on average, the typical family will be spending an additional $350.

Part of why we're listening to british c olumbians now through telephone town halls, through our on-line surveys, is how we might improve the hS t and amel - iorate some of that impact. but i am always fascinated by an opposition that can stand up and criticize a tax change that moves from a GS t and a PS t , from two duplicative systems that impose burdensome paper re - quirements on small business, and moves to a system that generates anywhere from 24,000 to 113,000 more jobs and be opposed to it. [1420] only the nDP would be opposed to 24,000 to 113,000 more jobs for the economy of british c olumbia. cabinet co MMittee on o Pen Go VernMent D.

Routley: i think it's important for british c olum- bians to get an early measure of progress for this new Premier on her commitments, given the l iberal record on keeping commitments. My question is for the Minister of citizens' Services. This new Premier campaigned on a promise of open - ing government up. Given the b.c. l iberal record, it's important for us to examine that. first she created a cab - inet committee on open government.

Good job. n ext, she made that cabinet committee on open government exempt from freedom of information. n ow, forgive me and forgive british c olumbians for judging the Premier's progress a little short. Does the Minister of citizens' Services responsible for freedom of information support the decision of the Premier to close down the cabinet committee examining public scrutiny from public scrutiny? Hon. S.

Cadieux: i am proud of our government's commitment to opening up government, and i'm very pleased that one of the first actions was to create a cab - inet committee on open government. a s the member would well know, all cabinet commit- tees are subject to the freedom of information laws like every other committee of government. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

british c olumbia Debates6602 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 D. Routley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, but forgive me.

The Premier making the cabinet committee on open government exempt from freedom of informa - tion seems like a backwards step to me. i would expect that any british c olumbian expects the Premier to live up to her commitments. one of the commitments the Premier made during her campaign for leadership was: "Make sure that open government is something that's a reality, not something we just talk about." Well, it seems like l iberal doubletalk to me that now the minister flip-flops. i'd like this minister responsible for freedom of information to commit to the people of b.c. to open up the cabinet committee on open govern - ance to open scrutiny.

Hon. S. Cadieux: Well, i'm surprised the member isn't aware that all cabinet committees are treated the same way. They're all treated as cabinet committees, and the information discussed is confidential. The true test of our commitment to open government is how we're going to engage with british c olumbians, and that work has already begun with open town halls across the province, with tele–town halls on the hS t , where 30,000 people participated in Surrey alone.

We're opening up government. i'm proud of our commitments, and i hope that the members opposite will be as excited about the things that are upcoming as i am. enbriDGe oil PiPeline Pro PoSal M. Sather: l ast f riday the r ainbow pipeline in a lberta burst its seams and spilled 4½ million litres of crude oil into the environment and also harming local communities there. The spill was discovered on t uesday.

That's four days after it actually happened. n ow, the minister will know that enbridge is propos - ing a pipeline all across central british c olumbia, a tar sands pipeline that will cross many streams and rivers, including the u pper f raser r iver. i'd like to ask the minister: how long would it take british c olumbia to respond to a spill in the headwaters of the f raser r iver? [1425] Hon. R.

Coleman: The member opposite may or may not be aware that it's a 50-year-old pipeline that's existed in northern a lberta for an extended period of time. it is an older pipeline that is a lot different than the technol - ogy that would be used on any new pipeline that would be brought into british c olumbia. W e are actually in contact with a lberta to learn from any lessons they may learn from this particular incident. interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member has a supplemental. M.

Sather: Well, the minister might want to talk a lit- tle bit more to enbridge. h e may recall that they had a big spill of their own just last year in the k alamazoo r iver in Michigan. This pipeline will carry twice as much oil as the one in a lberta and over a lot more difficult ter- rain than we have there. i'd like to ask the minister, then: how much is it going to cost? h ow much would it cost to have a quick re - sponse to an oil spill — which will happen, i'm afraid to say, but it will happen. c an the minister tell us how long it would take and how much it would cost? Hon. R.

Coleman: The member might not be aware that the significant investment that would be made in li- quefied natural gas in british c olumbia would establish a market for thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of investment in british c olumbia. i know that the member opposite isn't interested in any of the environmental assessment work that's done, any of the engineering work that's done, any of the technology that might exist. a ll he's afraid of is being a naysayer about anything that would be good for the fu - ture of the economy of british c olumbia. [end of question period.] interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. Introductions by Members P . Pimm: i'd like to take this opportunity, and it seems quite fitting. We had a presentation today from Spectra energy, and i have some of their folks here today. President Doug bloom; vice-president Gary Weilinger; John t urner, one of my constituents from f ort St. John; Sarah Mcc ullough; and Jay h ill are all here. i'd like the h ouse to make them welcome, please. Orders of the Day Hon. R.

Coleman: in this h ouse we will be debating, in committee stage, bill 4, intituled the h armonized Sales t ax ( h St ) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct, followed by — if we get done on the committee stage — the estimates of the Ministry of Jobs, t ourism and innovation. in c ommittee a we will be debating the estimates of the Ministry of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government. [1430-1435]

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6603 Committee of the Whole House bi ll 4 — h ar Moni Ze D Sale S t a X (h St ) initiati Ve Vote an D r eferen Du M a ct The h ouse in c ommittee of the Whole (Section

b) on bill 4; l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 2:37 p.m. on

section 1. B. Ralston: This is a very brief bill, given that there are only two sections, but i do have a few questions of the minister. in

section 1(1) it refers to

section 13 of the r ecall and initiative a ct, and that would be the

section that would mandate an initiative vote, as it's called, in September. This bill will cancel that scheduled initiative vote in September. My question is to the minister.

Section 13 of the r ecall and initiative a ct and the accompanying sections in that division of the r ecall and initiative a ct that's referred to here in

section 1 have certain rules about the conduct of third-party advertisers. c an he confirm that third-party advertisers under

section 13 of the r ecall and initiative a ct must be registered, must disclose advertising ex - penses, must comply with the $5,000 limit and must identify the sponsor in the advertisement itself? Hon. B. Penner: i've just had a chance to peruse

section 13 of the r ecall and initiative a ct, and i don't see any men- tion in that

section regarding third-party advertising. B. Ralston: Well, i appreciate that, and i have the sec- tion in front of me, but i'm referring to the division. The

section does refer to regulations. The regulations may "specify what provisions of the e lection a ct apply" and "adapt any of the provisions of the e lection a ct with changes that the regulations may provide." it also gives, in

section 13(2), the l ieutenant-Governor-in-c ouncil — that's the cabinet — power to make regulations con - cerning and respecting an initiative vote. [1440] is the minister saying that under the r ecall and initiative a ct there is no restriction on third-party ad - vertising at all? Hon. B. Penner: i am advised that it's our view that the regulation-making authority under

section 13 does not give the government authority to set spending limits for the conduct of initiative votes. B. Ralston: Will the minister then confirm that under the r ecall and initiative a ct there was no proposed lim- itation? h ad this initiative vote proceeded, assuming that this piece of legislation passes, there would be no restrictions on third-party advertising whatsoever — no registration, no disclosure of advertising expenses, no $5,000 limit at all? Hon. B. Penner: if the member had continued read - ing a little further in the r ecall and initiative a ct, he would have eventually got to

section 74(1), which does set out expense limits for both proponents and oppon - ents of a certified initiative vote. c ontinuing to read further in the act, he would have eventually got to sec - tion 93, which does authorize limits for advertising for anyone who is not a proponent or opponent. B. Ralston: Well, i accept the minister's answer, of course.

Those were the sections that i was referring to. i'm not sure that the form in which the question was an- swered is particularly helpful. [1445] This is an important point, though, because the r ecall and initiative a ct, particularly the referendum that's go- ing to commence as a mail ballot in June, was the result of an initiative by citizens across the province in the hun- dreds of thousands who signed petitions, to bring the petition to that stage, to the l egislature, to the legislative committee, and then was referred to the c hief e lectoral officer to set a vote.

This is a departure from the public procedure that was envisaged at that time. Part of what is envisaged by the act is some control on spending under

section 13 and the other sections that have been referred to. is it the intention of this particular piece of legislation to make sure that there are no spend- ing limits on third parties? Hon. B. Penner: The legislative effect of

section 1, should it pass, is that the referendum related to the fu - ture of the hS t will be conducted under the authority of the r eferendum a ct as opposed to the r ecall and initiative a ct. i should state for further clarity that it's the com - bination of this provision, should it pass, and the order-in-council that cabinet has already passed under the r eferendum a ct triggering a vote which we've now stipulated will be a mail-in ballot….

Those two things together mean that the mail-in ballot will be conducted under the legal authority of the r eferendum a ct as op - posed to the r ecall and initiative a ct. B.

Ralston: but will the minister agree that the legal effect of cancelling the initiative vote under the r ecall and initiative a ct — unless the cabinet were to decide to pass separate regulations, which so far they've chosen not to — would be to sweep aside the legislative pro - visions controlling and limiting third-party spending, requiring registration and the other provisions of the act in the sections that the minister referred to? in other words, by passing this legislation, that limitation, if i can

british c olumbia Debates6604 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 put it that way, that control on the spending of third par- ties is cancelled. Hon. B. Penner: Just to add to my previous answer, the legal effect, should the l egislature give passage to

section 1 of this bill and should the rest of the bill pass and come into force, is that none of the provisions of the r ecall and initiative a ct will apply to the mail-in referen- dum that is going to be conducted this summer. B. Ralston: i thank the minister for agreeing with my position that none of the legislation applies, but par - ticularly the sections that i'm concerned with are the regulation and limitation of third-party spending. a ll of that is swept aside, should this

section pass. [1450] c an the minister explain why that is a good public policy decision? Hon. B. Penner: a s i indicated during my second read- ing remarks and also during my first reading remarks, in order to move to a different date, the government did see fit to trigger a referendum to be conducted under the auspices of the r eferendum a ct. a nd we made a further decision that instead of holding a traditional "walk up to the ballot box" kind of vote or an in-person vote, we would conduct it by way of a mail-in ballot.

That decision saves taxpayers at least $18 million while also accomplishing the goal, which i thought the opposition supported, of moving the date up so that the vote would be concluded sooner. in fact, as we discussed at second reading and during first reading in my remarks, people can expect to start seeing their ballots arriving in the mail during the week of June 13, and e lections b.c . tells me they expect the vast majority of british c olumbians will receive their ballots prior to June 24.

They can then mark that bal - lot and return it to e lections b.c. at that time or wait a number of weeks. i just caution people not to wait too long. i just was asked by an esteemed member of our legislative press gallery a few moments ago, before commencing com - mittee stage debate, who continued to express some curiosity about whether or not the ballots had to be received back by e lections b.c . at 4:30 p.m. on July 22 or just postmarked on July 22. The answer is that they must be received either by a Service b.c . centre by July 22 at 4:30 or by e lections b.c .

Simply postmarking it on July 22 will not be adequate in order to have your vote count. So again, i'm repeating a message that was in the in - formation bulletin, her news release as well as my first reading remarks, my second reading remarks and now during committee stage: do not wait until July 22 to put your ballot into the mail, because then your vote will not count. B. Ralston: i am mindful that debate at this stage is relatively narrow. but in the spirit of the response that the minister just gave, would the minister agree that under the r eferendum a ct there is authority in

section 6 regulations whereby the l ieutenant-Governor-in-council — that is, the cabinet — could make regulations to limit third-party advertising, to require registration following, in this case, the election act that's specifically referred to? Would he agree that if this

section should pass and this act should pass, taking away the control on third- party advertising, it is possible under the r eferendum a ct — under which the mail-in ballot is being con - ducted — for the cabinet to make regulations pursuant to

section 6 that would have the same effect as those in the r ecall and initiative a ct? Hon. B. Penner: The legal advice that the ministry has provided to government is that

section 6 would not give the cabinet that authority. [1455] That is the

interpretation by the lawyers in the min - istry — that, in fact, that would not give cabinet the authority to set those kinds of spending limits. B. Ralston: Well, i appreciate that the minister may regard that report as a cabinet confidence, but can he broadly explain the gist of that legal advice? i appreciate there was a court decision by Mr. Justice c ole on provi- sions in the e lection a ct where there was an effort to limit third-party spending outside the writ time, that is, outside the 28 days in a provincial election, and that was struck down and not appealed by the a ttorney General. So can he explain, perhaps in a

summary form, the gist of that legal advice? Hon. B. Penner: a ll i can do at this point is reiter - ate the conclusion of the legal advice, which was that

section 6 does not give us that authority. f urther, i can correct the member and the record for other members who are interested. i'm advised that the case that the member just referred to is, in fact, under appeal by the provincial government. B. Ralston: i appreciate the minister making that cor- rection. i think it was that the leave provision was denied and, therefore, it became academic in the 2009 election. i think that was the effect of that, but i do appreciate that correction. i apologize to the h ouse if i misled anyone on the current status of that particular case. Just for greater clarity then, the minister has referred to

section 6, and i haven't referred to the other sections of the r eferendum a ct. is the minister saying that no

section of the r eferendum a ct gives cabinet the authority to make any regulations that would control third-party spending in a referendum, however it's conducted?

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6605 Hon. B. Penner: i can confirm for the member that

section 6 is the only

section in the rather short r eferendum a ct that establishes any regulation-making power under that legislation, and it is our legal advice that it does not give government the legal authority to impose spending limits. B. Ralston: Madam c hair, i don't want to stray too far from

section 1, but i do regard it, with respect, as related to the issues that have arisen here in debate. i'll accept your guidance, of course, but i just wanted to explain as a preface before i asked a question that might be per - ceived as straying somewhat a little bit afield. u nder

section 13 and the other sections of the r ecall and initiative a ct that are referred to in

section 1 here of the bill, if this

section passes, there would be no re - striction on third-party spending of any kind. Does the minister have a concern about that, given that one of his predecessors in title — the hon. Wally o ppal, ob - viously, a former judge here at the c ourt of a ppeal in british c olumbia and the a ttorney General — did, in debate here on May 5, 2008, quote Mr.

Justice Michel bastarache of the Supreme c ourt of c anada, speaking about third-party spending, saying: "Without the limits, a few wealthy groups could drown out others in debates on important political issues"? [1500] h e went on to say — that is, the a ttorney General, Mr. o ppal: "We agree with that, and that is why we are setting reasonable limits on what third parties can spend." is the minister not concerned that by the combined effect of bill 4 here before us and the provisions of the r eferendum a ct that the government has chosen to rely on, that indeed there are no reasonable limits on what third parties can spend, as Mr.

Justice o ppal…. it ap- pears to be a flat contradiction of what he said not too long ago. Hon. B. Penner: if i cast my mind back to the late 1980s, when i first had the opportunity to haunt these hallways, which was just a couple of years after our learned c lerk, Mr. MacMinn, joined us here — maybe more than a couple more…. it was around that time that i believe the l egislature gave passage to the r eferendum a ct that you have be - fore you, or that you're referring to now.

The l egislature at that time did not see fit to add those provisions that the member is mentioning, and since then referendums have been conducted under this legislation three times, at least that i'm aware of, in british c olumbia. The first, in 2002, at least in my memory, related to treaty principles for the conclusion of agreements with first n ations in british c olumbia. The second time was in 2005 following up on the citizens panel on electoral reform. Members of the public had a chance to express their views, if they agreed that we should move to a sin - gle transferable vote or ballot system.

Then again in 2009 there was a follow-up vote along the same lines. a ll three of those votes were conducted under the auspices of the r eferendum a ct, which meant that there were no limitations on third-party advertising. i can also further confirm that of those three, two were conducted in the traditional fashion, which is when people were marching up in person to the ballot box, and the first, in 2002, was conducted by way of a mail-in ballot. B. Ralston: Well, i'm going back to

section 1 of this bill. it is clear that what we're dealing with here is an issue of taxation, very unlike the previous referenda that the minister referred to. So does the minister agree with the Supreme c ourt of c anada: "Without the limits, a few wealthy groups could drown out others in debates on important political issues"? Hon. B.

Penner: n o doubt taxation is important, but i would submit that what's even more fundamental to democracy is how we vote and how we elect members to represent us in this place. [1505] on two occasions in the last six years british c olum- bians have voted about what kind of electoral system they would like to have in british c olumbia, upon which our democracy is based, and they did so under the auspices of the r eferendum a ct without limitations on third-party advertising. B. Ralston: Well, i want to give the a ttorney General another chance to answer my question.

The principle that's set out by the Supreme c ourt of c anada by Mr. Justice Michel bastarache upholding third-party cam - paign spending limits, when he said, "Without the limits, a few wealthy groups could drown out others in debates on important political issues" — does he accept that principle or not? The Chair: if i could draw the member back to con - sideration of

section 1. Hon. B. Penner: i can only add that we have, as i've said already, conducted three referendums under this kind of provision. i haven't heard any complaints about how third parties got involved in those campaigns. i note that in 2008 the member himself voted against spending limits that we put in place under the e lection a ct for the conduct of general elections in british c olumbia, so ob- viously he wasn't that persuaded by the opinions of the justice that he's quoting because he voted against spend- ing limits when he had the opportunity. B.

Ralston: Well, i wouldn't want to get into cross- debate on irrelevant issues, but i think it is appropriate that i correct the record. a s the minister will remember from

british c olumbia Debates6606 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 that debate, the bill that was being debated was seeking to impose spending limits for 120 days before the election to comment on the Speech from the Throne, the budget and the run-up to the election. That's why Mr. Justice c ole struck those provisions down. They were amended to 60 days prior to the writ time. That's what i spoke against in this h ouse, and that's why my vote was recorded in the way that the member has referred to. i do want now to turn to subsection (2) of

section 1. c an the minister explain the purpose of subsection (2)? Hon. B. Penner: i note that we are probably straying somewhat from

section 1. h owever, if people are inter- ested in this debate, they may be interested to know that the case that the hon. member is referring to and quoting with some favour is actually entitled h arper versus the a ttorney General of c anada. if you're wondering, that is in fact a reference to the now Prime Minister h arper, who at the time was challenging the federal government's spending limits for general elections.

When the Supreme c ourt of c anada and the justices made their comments that the member is referring to, they did so in the context of electing members to par - liament, and you can, by extrapolation, suggest that that applies, also, to electing members to provincial legislatures. but it was not specifically about people par- ticipating in referendum. B. Ralston: i did ask the minister: what was the legis - lative intent of

section 1(2)? Hon. B. Penner:

Section 1(2) can probably best be described in the way that my first-year legislative draft - ing professor at the u niversity of Victoria would have described it, which is a belt-and-suspenders provision. it's, just in case and for greater clarity, making sure that if called upon, a court will know what the l egislature's intent was. So strictly speaking, it might not be neces - sary, but for greater certainty, it's there. B. Simpson: i want to be clear in my opening com - ments just on my question that i am supportive of getting on with the referendum. What i have to say has to do with clarity. This two-clause

section of the act does two things.

The minister's already talked about the second part. i like the phrase "belt-and-suspender clause" to make sure it's understood. but what it's really doing is cancelling the initiative vote that was a result of over half a million signatures by british c olumbians. [1510] it cancels it outright — takes the date of September 24 off of the calendar — and replaces it with a referendum under the r eferendum a ct in which the government has some leeway, although the regulation states that they want to hold this around June 24. i have an amendment standing in my name on the or- der paper which, depending on the questions i have for the minister and his answers, i may bring forward.

That amendment has to do with the fact that there may be an interruption in the mail-in ballot. So my question to the minister is: has he discussed the possibility of a postal strike interfering with the mail-in ballots that the gov - ernment currently has scheduled starting June 13? Hon. B. Penner: i thank the member for his ques - tion, which is a good one.

We have had a number of discussions between the Ministry of a ttorney General and the office of e lections b.c . regarding various scenarios, including what could happen if there was a disruption in postal service. i'm aware that contract talks are ongoing between the union and the employer, with c anada Post.

Section 280 of the e lection a ct gives the chief elec - toral officer a number of powers, including — and i'll quote here — to do those things that are "…necessary because of an emergency, a mistake or extraordinary circumstances in relation to proceedings…" in relation to the referendum. a nd reading further: "…the chief electoral officer may make orders extending a time period or establish - ing a new date in place of one set under this a ct" — or the r eferendum a ct — "and giving any other direction the chief electoral officer considers appropriate in rela - tion to this." [1515] B.

Simpson: i'm conscious of that, and i, too, have had some dialogue with e lections b.c. The difficulty here, because of the structure of this act, is that the guil- lotine, if you will, of a date — September 24 — is actually being removed.

That's when the initiative act was sup - posed to be held. in conversations that i've had with folks about this, we may actually proceed with mail packages going out, which commences around June 13 or so. if we don't have any surety — and i don't think that surety will be given by c anada Post or by the union — that british c olumbia will not be in either a lockout or a strike pos - ition any time for any period between June 13 and July 22, then that's the issue — whether or not that then interferes with the referendum process.

So i appreciate the minister indicating the clauses in 280(1), (2) and (3) in the e lection a ct about the referen- dum. but is it the minister's understanding that there is a possibility of a strike or a lockout occurring sometime during…? l et me rephrase it — that a possibility exists that a strike or a lockout could occur anytime during this window that's scheduled for the mail-in ballot? Hon. B. Penner: o bviously, that's a hypothetical question. i did do a little bit of digging and found that

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6607 the frequency of labour disruptions at c anada Post has decreased significantly in the last decade or so, maybe a decade and a half. There's been a lot more stability there.

Thankfully, labour disputes are not as common as they were in the 1970s and early 1980s. i think a lot of us remember that those disputes often seem to really come to the forefront around c hristmas time, just before people were attempting to send pack - ages to their loved ones. it seemed to be about the time that we couldn't count on the postal service due to a labour dispute. but happily, the record has apparently improved significantly in the last ten to 15 years. B.

Simpson: Maybe the minister needs to take a look at what's happening in Wisconsin, because in many re - spects what's happening between c anada Post and the c anada Post union is an attempt by c anada Post to pull back across-the-board benefits, pensions, wages, terms of work, etc. it may be the first instance in c anada where there is an attempt to go after a public sector union, which may be what we'll see here, which is exactly what is happening in the u nited States. The minister indicates that i asked a hypothetical.

Y es, i did, but one of the aspects of good government is to be prepared for what-if scenarios. in this case there is a po- tential what-if scenario because cuPW has a 97 percent strike mandate. n ow, they are continuing negotiations. i would hope, as most c anadians would, they're able to successfully deal with their issues at the negotiating table. but the possibility sometime between June 13 and July 22 of a strike or a lockout, whether rotating or otherwise, does seem to me to exist. That possibility exists. a s such, does it not make sense that we have contin - gency plans in place?

So my question to the minister is: is he comfortable in his dialogue with e lections b.c. that e lections b.c . would be able to offset any interruption and make sure that this referendum by mail-in ballot is aboveboard, incontestable — unable for anybody to take a run at the outcome of this referendum if at some point during the referendum window there's a three-day lock- out or a two-week lockout or a strike of some kind? [1520] is the minister convinced that e lections b.c. has a contingency plan in place to make sure that the outcome of this referendum will not be contested in the event of a postal strike of some kind?

Hon. B. Penner: in answer to the member's question, yes, i am confident that e lections b.c . is working hard to keep the lines of communication open with c anada Post so that they're apprised of any developments as soon as they become available, if something were to happen that was not positive. f urther, i can just advise the member that in the order-in-council that cabinet passed a number of weeks ago,

section 4(2) of the hS t r eferendum r egulation specifies that the close of voting in the referendum is 4:30 p.m. local time on July 22, 2011. but if you refer to

schedule 2 of that same regulation, it incorporates

section 280 of the e lection a ct, where it says: "The chief electoral officer may, by specific or gen- eral order, make exceptions…." a nd in sub (2): "…the chief electoral officer may make orders extending a time period or establishing a new date in place of one set under this a ct…" or the r eferendum a ct.

So it's our view that that gives the c hief e lectoral officer flexibility, if need be, to extend the voting period so that people would have an equal amount of time to vote. e ven if mail service were disrupted, for argument's sake, for five days, this would give the c hief e lectoral officer the authority to extend the close of voting time by an equal number of days. B. Simpson: i appreciate the minister's forbearance on a hypothetical, but as i said, it is a very hotly con - tested issue, as the minister knows.

The report that came out today i think captured it well when it said that there was no public consultation. The result was confusion, anger, political discontent and a petition signed by hun- dreds of thousands of people. i'd hate to see that anger and confusion and discontent continue.

My question to the minister is…. i understand that the c hief e lectoral officer can move the end date from July 22. a s the minister has indicated, if it's a five-day strike or lockout, then move it five days, or whatever the case may be. i'm not a lawyer. i have been apprised by some folks, though, that if there is an adjustment of that nature done by the c hief e lectoral o fficer where there is an interruption in the flow of mail — where people don't have certainty that their mail isn't backlogged some - where or held somewhere, that they don't get it in on time because of a backlog in the mail….

So it's not just the five days that the strike occurred; it's whatever the backlog is that's required. [1525] but given that the c hief e lectoral officer may take that into consideration, does the minister have an opin - ion about whether or not this opens us up to litigation regardless of the outcome? So the fact that it was inter - rupted, the fact that the elections officer had to extend the dates and somebody doesn't like the outcome and decides to contest that change, does the minister have an opinion on whether or not that will simply continue to confound this issue into the future? Hon. B.

Penner: it's worth noting, perhaps, at this juncture in debate that the c hief e lectoral officer is an independent officer of the l egislature. i would not at - tempt to direct him or the staff in his office about how they should conduct themselves. h owever, i do have

british c olumbia Debates6608 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 confidence that he and his staff will apply the appropri - ate judgment and utilize whatever legal mechanisms are in place in an appropriate fashion to deal with whatever circumstances may arise. on the face of it, it does appear to me that

section 280(1) and, in particular,

section 280(2) do give the c hief e lectoral officer the authority to do exactly the thing that we've been talking about, which is extending the time period in a manner that the c hief e lectoral officer considers appropriate. a gain, to further indulge in a hypothetical, if the c hief e lectoral o fficer were to be advised by c anada Post that it might take a number of extra days to clear up a backlog, i have confidence that the c hief e lectoral officer would take that kind of advice into account be - fore extending and setting a new time limit for close of voting. B.

Simpson: Part of the difficulty with this — again, in conversation with people — of course is that this is now occurring into the summer as well, and there are questions around whether the summer is the best time to be involved in a mail-in ballot and all of the questions that opposition members asked during second reading about the mail-in process and whether or not it's disen - franchising some people. a final question to the minister. The minister has indi- cated that he believes that

section 280 does give the chief e lectoral o fficer the right to act. i take the minister's point. i'm not asking the minister if he would interfere with an independent officer of the l egislature. What i'm asking for, because there are some legal minds over there, is: are there any incidences where these kinds of things have happened and, as a result, the outcome of the vote or the referendum then becomes legally contestable be - cause of the change from the regulations and because of the discretion used by the chief e lectoral officer? [1530-1535] Hon. B.

Penner: i apologize for the delay. i was just obtaining some materials to help me expound upon my forthcoming answer. in british c olumbia, as in most provinces, it's pos - sible for people to attempt to bring a civil case, and in most cases a court registry will accept pleadings, ex - cept in a few limited circumstances.

The test used to be…. it may have been changed now with the new civil court rules, but unless something was clearly frivolous and vexatious, the court registry would allow someone to at least initiate a proceeding. but that doesn't mean and didn't mean that you would necessarily be success - ful ultimately. c an i guarantee that someone will not attempt to file a pleading and attempt to challenge the outcome if some hypothetical situation unfolds? n o, i can't give that assurance. but in reviewing the provision, as i did a few minutes ago in my last answer,

section 280 of the e lection a ct does appear to give the c hief e lectoral officer fairly broad power. it appears to be fairly clear, on its face, that he has the discretion to extend the time limit that's set out in the regulation that we promulgated a number of weeks ago. f urther, and this was of interest to me in looking into this bill, the Supreme c ourt of c anada has ruled that

section 3 of the c harter of r ights and f reedoms does not apply in the same way to votes that take place in - volving referenda. Just for the record, i'll read

section 3 of the c harter. it says: "e very citizen of c anada has the right to vote in an election of members of the h ouse of c ommons or of a legislative assembly and to be quali - fied for membership therein." it's actually fairly clear that what was contemplated in the c harter is a protection for taking

part in votes for people to legislatures and parliament. My understanding is that following the 1995 referen - dum in Quebec, an individual who had recently moved to Quebec was not permitted to participate in the ref - erendum that took place about whether or not Quebec should seek some different arrangement with a country called c anada. That individual was displeased that he was not allowed to participate in that referendum and sought to challenge the provincial government's deci - sion not to allow him to vote on the basis of his

section 3 right to vote rights laid out in the c harter. That challenge ultimately turned out to be unsuccess- ful on the basis that that's not what that

section is about. That also relates back to the answer and the de - bate i had a bit earlier on with the f inance critic for the opposition. B. Simpson: i guess i'm having a reaction to the minister's comments about the fact that the vote for a member of a legislative assembly is protected and a vote in a referendum isn't. Therefore, if some people don't get a chance to vote in the referendum, then that's okay, is what it felt like. i'm sure the minister is not indicating that. but i get the point. it's not protected. i guess my line of questioning, to go back to the min - ister's own comments about

part 2 of this section, is: where's the belts-and-suspenders part that guarantees that the people who signed an initiative in this prov - ince actually get their say before September 24? The very portion of the act that the minister is pointing to gives the elections officer the ability to actually say: "l ook, it doesn't look like we can hold this in the spring. Summer is not a great time to hold it.

Maybe we'll wait and make sure that the window is clear, and we'll hold it later in the fall." it does give the e lections b.c. officer that oppor - tunity to delay it further, and the act actually only stipulates that we as M la s would be given a report as to the nature of that decision after the fact. i take the

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6609 point that the minister has indicated — that the c hief e lectoral officer has the leeway under the act to move this around. i'm not comforted, necessarily, that that addresses the issue. l et me ask the minister this, because the September 24 date is kind of the end date that's being cancelled, and that's more what i'm concerned about.

The resolution to this, under the current circumstances, is definitive: September 24. [1540] Does the minister believe on balance, based on the information he has available to him and discussions he's had with e lections b.c., that this issue will be re - solved before that September 24 date one way or the other? Hon. B. Penner: That is the basis that we're proceed - ing on. Sections 1 and 2 approved. t itle approved. Hon. B. Penner: i move that the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 3:41 p.m. The h ouse resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Report and Third Reading of Bills bill 4 — h ar Moni Ze D Sale S t a X (h St ) initiati Ve Vote an D r eferen Du M a ct bill 4, h armonized Sales t ax (hS

t) initiative Vote and r eferendum a ct, reported complete without amend - ment, read a third time and passed. Hon. P . Bell: i call committee for the estimates of the Ministry of Jobs, t ourism and innovation. Committee of Supply e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y of Job S, touri SM an D inno Vation The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply (Section b); l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 3:44 p.m. on Vote 33: ministry operations, $236,513,000. Hon. P . Bell: Thanks so much, Madam c hair, for being here again today. l ooking forward to going through the estimates of the Ministry of Jobs, t ourism and innovation.

The critic has generously volunteered an array of topics that we'll be canvassing today, and i look forward to fol - lowing through with the individual items. The ministry has broad areas of responsibility, in - cluding economic development for the province and international trade as well as marketing initiatives around the globe.

We also have responsibilities for rural economic development. o ther key areas of importance, of course, include tourism and innovation along with trades training. [1545] We have some very interesting areas that i think we will be wanting to canvass today. i will say that having been in the portfolio for seven weeks now, i find it very, very exciting and stimulating — the opportunities as - sociated with this ministry — and we intend to bring a very focused effort at our international marketing efforts, perhaps learning from some of the accomplish - ments that we've had through our forest innovative investment attempts in c hina and how we've been able to develop that opportunity.

With that, i know i'll have many questions, and i'm looking forward to hearing them from the critic. J. Kwan: Thank you to the minister for his opening remarks. We do have a number of areas, as his ministry, as he knows, actually covers quite a range of areas in the Ministry of Jobs, innovation and t ourism, better known as Jti — sort of like Darth Vader and Jedi.

So we'll see whether or not you're the dark forces or if you're really the Jedi. but we'll see about that. a s the minister mentioned, his Ma touched base with me, and i provided him with a list of areas to which we'll canvass for the purposes of, hopefully, orderly estimates debate. Just to reiterate and just to make sure that we've got the list correct, because there's been some flux in terms of changes with people's schedules and so on, i expect to go in this order with the items.

We'll deal with immigration, provincial nominee issues, and then we'll be into the ita labour market de - velopment matters, and then we have more or less of a local contract related to the Delta community. Then for the rest of the estimates…. i guess we're starting at four, so i lost a couple of hours. Then we'll be dealing with tourism, Pavc o, casino- related issues, and then we'll segue into what i call rural issues and pretty well all the various trusts, the moun - tain pine beetle issue, the economic development policy issue along with equity hiring policy.

We'll then segue into…. r elated to some of those issues are forestry-related matters, and then the green in- itiative as well. Then we'll move forward to the fii under

british c olumbia Debates6610 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 the ministry, particularly the Dream h ome c anada in- itiative, and then i'll touch on a range of the trade and investment matters.

They range from the a sia-Pacific initiative, the a sia-Pacific business c entre. i'd like to touch on the venture capital tax credit pro - grams, what the ministry calls economic competitiveness, and then i'd like to touch on ceta , which is also under the minister's responsibility, and then broadly speaking, into some of the boards and agencies under the minister's responsibility and particularly the Premier's t echnology c ouncil and the b.c . innovation c ouncil.

Then we'll finally close with small business. it's a long list of things, and i don't anticipate that, given that we have a truncated period of time in this ses- sion of the h ouse, we'll get all of our questions on record. So i would look forward to arranging with the minister at another time to set up perhaps more detailed ques - tion sessions with his staff so that we can canvass more thoroughly some of the other items that didn't make it on the floor for this set of estimates.

With that, let's begin with our first set of questions. on behalf of my colleague, actually, who is the critic for immigration policies, immigration matters, who could not be here to ask these questions…. i'm asking on her behalf and as the member for Vancouver-k ensington, touching on the provincial nominee program and par - ticularly the temporary foreign workers issue. a s the minister knows, there are some 45,000 indi - viduals that entered b.c. as temporary foreign workers in 2010.

Migrant workers are employed as farmwork - ers, janitors, cleaners, caregivers, construction workers, cooks, food service assistants. They work in a variety of sectors, whether it be farming; the food and restaurant businesses; the food courts at the airports, hospitals, pri- vate homes; and so on. [1550] The coalition for Migrant W orkers Justice is a coalition of 12 organizations.

They include a mnesty international r ichmond; the a griculture Workers a lliance centre; the b.c. building trades council; c anada-Philippines Soli- darity for h uman r ights; Justicia for Migrant Workers; kairo S, V ancouver and r ichmond; l onghouse coun - cil of n ative Ministry; Migrante b.c .; Missionaries of St. c harles Scalabrinians; r ed latina l egal group; St. Joseph's langley Mexican f arm W orkers o utreach group; and finally, the W est coast Domestic W orkers a ssociation.

The coalition held a press conference back on a pril 19 to address issues of injustices, vulnerabilities, poor working conditions and barriers to the temporary for - eign workers. Many of the temporary foreign workers, particularly in the lower-skilled professions, are in some ways treated as though they're second-class citizens to workers in c anada, and with non-temporary status with respect to their rights and benefits. Their temporary status renders them invisible and precarious at best and often disposable if they speak up for their rights or speak out against poor working condi- tions.

Many experience their employment relationship as indentured servitude. These are challenging times, for sure, for these tem - porary foreign workers. So my first question to the minister is…. Many of the temporary foreign work - ers pay some $3,000 to $5,000 to recruiters to work in c anada, which we know is illegal. it is illegal to charge a recruitment fee to workers.

What provisions or regulations — enforcement mechanisms, if you will, Minister — are in place to ensure that the temporary foreign workers are not il - legally charged thousands of dollars as a recruitment fee so that they can come here to work as temporary foreign workers? Hon. P . Bell: i was remiss in not introducing staff that i have here with me today. t o my left is my dep - uty minister, Dana h ayden. immediately to my right is the aDM, Shannon baskerville, responsible for labour market and immigration. a lso, one of our executive dir- ectors, ian Mellor, is to her right.

The critic should be aware, i think, that the temporary foreign worker program is actually a federal government program. This ministry has responsibility for the prov - incial nominee program, but temporary foreign workers are controlled by the federal government. if there was an issue with regards to temporary for - eign workers paying a recruitment fee, that would fall, likely, to the Ministry of l abour. There is specifically, as i understand it, in the legislation a restriction against that being done. but that would fall to the Ministry of l abour, not this ministry. J.

Kwan: Y eah, i was just talking to our critic about that, and she had in fact spoken with some folks from immigration. They had said that it would fall under this ministry. Perhaps that's misinformation that was deliv - ered to the critic on that front. That said, maybe it's the Ministry of l abour to which….

We'll try our hand at the Minister of l abour with this set of questions as well. l et me ask this question. if in fact, then, illegal fees are being charged, recruitment fees are being charged, will the minister, with his government, along with his colleagues, be prepared to raise this issue? if in fact it is solely the responsibility of the federal government, will the minister work with his colleagues to ensure that this issue is brought to the federal government's attention and dealt with effectively? [1555] Hon. P .

Bell: While the temporary foreign worker program is a responsibility of the federal government, i actually didn't mean to intimate that we wouldn't like to have delegated responsibility for it. i think that

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6611 would actually be a fairly attractive opportunity for british c olumbia. h owever, having been in the portfolio for seven weeks and the federal government having spent five of those seven weeks in an election process, i've been unable to contact the minister to see if they'd be interested in en - gaging in that discussion.

That all said, it would always concern our government, or any government, if there was an abuse of workers in this province. a lthough the responsibility for that clearly would be aligned with a Ministry of l abour, as the min- ister responsible for the provincial nominee program, if i were to discover that something of that nature would be occurring, i would definitely raise it with the federal gov- ernment and ensure compliance with the laws. J.

Kwan: o kay, so we will bring this issue up with the Minister of l abour during that set of estimates, for sure, to follow up with that. [D. black in the chair.] n ow, so there's something to say on that issue around work permits related to temporary foreign workers. Would that not also be a matter dealt with by this min - istry, then? That's also the Ministry of l abour? Hon. P . Bell: Madam c hair, welcome to your lower- c hair position instead of your upper-c hair position.

The issuing of permits for temporary foreign workers would also fall to the responsibility of the federal gov - ernment, not the provincial government. J. Kwan: Why i raise this issue, of course, is this. The temporary foreign workers pay, of course, employment insurance premiums, and they're unable to collect ei be - cause of their status. because their work permits are employer-specific and not occupation-specific, it actually causes them a problem, in the sense that if they are subject to mis - treatment, they will have no recourse. They're stuck with that specific employer.

They have no recourse. if there's a system where that work permit could be trans - ferred to a different employer, it could give them some protection at least, in some ways, to address some of these kinds of abuses and practices.

That's why i asked this question of the minister. a gain, i guess it's the federal government, although as i said, the critic who talked with immigration people on the federal level side had said that these are the kinds of ques- tions that could be put here. in any event, maybe there's just confusion and miscommunication all around because of the federal election, amongst other things, so we will try to figure out where we go. We will certainly try these ques- tions with the Minister of labour in her set of estimates and then, of course, raise it at the federal level as well. i want to ask this question.

Maybe this is also the Ministry of l abour's bailiwick, but i want to bring this to the minister's attention as well. it's about work condi- tions, ultimately, and trying to get some access to support and information when they're in tough situations. t emporary foreign workers have many challenges, as i've identified earlier, and there is an urgent need for front-line services to help these workers. They are prohibited from accessing settlement services, and there are few places for them to turn to when they're in need of assistance. in a lberta, actually, they do provide services.

There are a 1-800 hotline and storefront services to assist these vulnerable workers. i don't know whether or not, for the Minister of Jobs, this would fall into the minister's baili- wick — that he would look into providing assistance in this regard, similar to that of the a lberta model, for workers that would be in urgent need from potentially being exploited by their employers or who've run into trouble and need some assistance. [1600] Hon. P .

Bell: The ministry does have some assistance available for temporary foreign workers — or some in - formation available, i should say — as does the Ministry of l abour. We have translated that into four languages, or we have it in four languages, because one of those four is english. So i guess there'd be three translations. Those would include c hinese, Punjabi and Spanish. Those are available on the Welcome b.c . website and also through the employment standards branch, as well as WorkSafe b.c . While we don't have a specific 1-800 number, there is information available to these workers should they require it.

J. Kwan: Y es, i appreciate that there are documents and access to website information which foreign work - ers could look into, but it's a little bit different, though. h aving been an advocate in my previous life before i landed here, it makes a difference, though, when you talk to a real person who can actually assist you as you're going through your problems, and as you're stating what the problems are, he might be able to give you direct advocacy work and support. it's very different, i think, than what the minister is talking about.

Given that there isn't a 1-800-number-type hot - line service in place, and given that there aren't really front-line storefront services available, could the min - ister advise whether or not there's something that he would be considering, something that he would think is worthwhile putting in place to provide support and assistance to temporary foreign workers who could be in very trying situations? Hon. P . Bell: The Ministry of l abour does have the resources that go out and visit sites and enforce existing labour laws in british c olumbia. The Ministry of Jobs,

british c olumbia Debates6612 Wednesday, May 4, 2011 t ourism and innovation doesn't have those resources; they aren't located within this ministry. While govern - ment does provide that, it's not provided through this particular ministry. in terms of the issue of foreign employment, im - migration and that sort of thing, the primary area of responsibility that this ministry has is for the provincial nominee program. The questions that i think the member is asking prob- ably are best canvassed of the Minister of l abour. J.

Kwan: o kay, then we will canvass these questions with the Minister of l abour. i certainly hope that around the cabinet table the min- ister would advocate for these kinds of changes and in support of the Minister of l abour when she brings these matters up. f or the Minister of Jobs, these folks in the community, when they are faced with challenging work- ing conditions…. i think it does fall into this minister's and this government's overall responsibility to look into and to provide the various supports that are necessary so that there are fair working conditions in place for all people who are here — people who are c anadians, people who are immigrants and most certainly people who are foreign workers as well. i understand that the provincial nominee program just expanded a little bit. i wonder if the minister can provide us with some information about that. h ow much does the provincial nominee program cost? h ow many people have applied to be participants in this pro- gram? h ow many have been processed, and how many have been successful? [1605] Hon.

P . Bell: f or the provincial nominee program, the provincial contribution to the budget is $3.4 mil - lion. There is a user fee associated with the provincial nominee program that generates an additional $2.4 million for a total budget to run the program of $5.8 million. The $2.4 million does fluctuate, depending on the number of applications in any given year, but that was what it was for 2010. There were just over 4,000 applications received, and all would have been processed.

The member opposite broke down her question into applications processed and successful, and the applications processed from our per- spective would have been the same number. it could be that the member opposite is thinking, perhaps, inquiries or something. i don't think we track that number. So in terms of the number of applications that we've processed, we're just over 4,000. There were 3,526 nom- inations recommended and put forward, so out of the 4,000 were 3,526. J.

Kwan: Does the minister have a breakdown of what sector, in terms of what the applicants have applied for? f or example, is it in the health care sector? is it in — i don't know — engineering or whatever the case may be? What sectors have these applicants accessed the programs in? Hon. P .

Bell: Madam c hair, just if i may for a moment deviate from my response to the member opposite. [1610] i'd like to take the opportunity to introduce to the h ouse some people that are joining us from a fair dis - tance — actually, probably not that far away if you went straight up the coast. but noting that they have a bus driver with them, i'm guessing they may have driven. i hope they didn't because i've been up and down the hill into bella c oola before. i'm seeing nods that, yes, you drove.

That's an ac - complishment, so congratulations to the bus driver, Mr. l eonard k ozak, for that. i would like to take the opportunity to introduce to the h ouse a group of students, teachers, a principal and, of course, their bus driver, who are visiting us from Sir a lexander Mackenzie School in bella c oola through our government's Y ear of Science program. There are ten grade 11 and 12 students here. They're travelling to Victoria and Vancouver to visit science fa - cilities and post-secondary institutions to help develop an awareness of the opportunities that science can offer.

They're accompanied by their principal, Jeremy baillie; teachers — and i hope get this right — e lysebeth r evell- r oy and Sara Germain; and their bus driver, l eonard k ozak. a s well as the tours of ubc, uVic and c amosun c ollege, their journey will be taking them to Science World, Pne's physics day, the Museum of a nthropology, ubc's advanced molecular biology lab and a visit to the r oyal b.c. Museum. i'd ask that all members of the h ouse please join me in welcoming the students and teachers from bella c oola.

So we are in a highly anticipated and exciting process — every year — of what is called estimates. G. Coons: i seek leave to continue an introduction. l eave granted. Introductions by Members G.

Coons: i would also like to welcome my constitu - ents from the bella c oola Valley. i was just there a week and a half ago and attended quite a few functions in the arts festival. a s the minister mentioned, they're from Sir a lexander Mackenzie School, which is getting its gym redone. i would like to one-up the minister and introduce the students: Jordan h unt, f rancois Jacques, ben f ernandez, Jasmine e dgar, c hantelle Mack, brody t uck, Dylan

british c olumbia DebatesWednesday, May 4, 2011 6613 Mcf aren, f elicia h arris, f rancis Phillips, along with Sara Germain, e lysebeth r evell-r oy, Jeremy baillie and especially the driver, l eonard. Thank you so much for making it down here. in a few minutes, after they partake in estimates, we are going to go down to the legislative dining room for our afternoon snack, so i'm really looking forward to that. Would you please make my constituents welcome. Debate Continued Hon. P .

Bell: i was just going to let the member for n orth c oast's constituents know that it is normal tradition that the Mla representing the constitu - ents always buys downstairs in the dining room. So i would strongly encourage you to eat well, eat heartily, because i'm sure your M la will offer to pick up the tab when it's done. i also just wanted to let you know that right now we're in something called estimates, which is a review of the budget. The ministry that i have responsibility for is called Jobs, t ourism and innovation, so highly relevant to the work that you're doing around science.

We had responsibility for the Y ear of Science, so the funding that brought you down here we were able to provide for you. This process will be iterative between myself and the critic. The critic will be asking various questions about the budget. i have staff here. These three individuals are staff who help provide me with accurate information so that we can provi

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0504pm-13
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0504pm 13
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	98350f93ec1e227b62a37c048937ae974806846c

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