PDF Version (Day)

PDF Version (Night)

May

2, 2016

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVIII No. 20

The

House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):

Order, please!

We'd

like to welcome to the public gallery today the mayor of Conche, Mayor Doris

Carroll, and the deputy mayor, Charlene Kearney.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

Statements by

Members

MR. SPEAKER:

Today for Members'

statements we have Virginia Waters Pleasantville, Cape St. Francis, Fogo

Island Cape Freels, Mount Pearl North, Conception Bay East Bell Island

and St. George's Humber.

recognize the hon. the Member for Virginia Waters Pleasantville.

MR. B. DAVIS:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in

this hon. House today to recognize the students at Vanier Elementary school

for a pair of outstanding achievements.

Firstly, I'd like to recognize the artistic talents of Vince Burton. Vince

won the Cupids Museum Award of Excellence in 2016 for the Junior Division

for the museum's Design a Stamp Competition. Vince designed an 85-cent stamp

depicting volunteers serving food at a soup kitchen.

Next

I have to recognize the Vanier Elementary school Chess Club, who won the

gold medal at the Provincial Chess Tournament, which was recently held at

Mary Queen of Peace. The winning team members were Jonathan Adamson, Jacob

McGrath, Joshua Keyte, Jacob Brockerville, Ethan Pittman, Harrison Hefferton

and Tanish Bhatt. These impressive accomplishments are a credit to the

teaching excellence at Vanier Elementary.

ask all Members in this hon. House to join me in celebrating the recent

accomplishments of Vince Burton and the Vanier Elementary Chess team.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The Member for Cape St.

Francis.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. K. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I rise

in this hon. House today to congratulate The Concert Crowd, a group from

Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove. They started in 1968. March 5 marked their

48th year of performing.

This

group consists of 40 amateur actors, singers, dancers and musicians with

most of them hailing from the local community. They have welcomed a few

members from outside.

The

Concert Crowd had a humble beginning in a school, using desktops for their

stage. They have now expanded to the Arts and Culture Centre to sold-out

shows. The Concert Crowd performs at conventions, festivals, the RNC

seniors' party and more.

The

Concert Crowd donates its proceeds to charities like the Red Cross, Canadian

Cancer Society, Kidney Foundation, Rainbow Riders, Community Food Sharing

Association, VOCM Cares Foundation, Day Break Lunch Association, CNIB,

medical emergency support, the town museum, St. Francis of Assisi Parish

Cemetery and many more. To date this group has donated $150,000.

ask all Members to join with me in congratulating this dedicated group of

individuals for the time and effort they put in to helping others.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The Member for the

District of Fogo Island Cape Freels.

MR. BRAGG:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in

this hon. House to recognize the Badger's Quay Lions Club, which celebrated

its 60th anniversary on April 15.

Founded in 1956 by a sponsorship from the Gambo Lions Club, the Badger's

Quay

chapter has grown into a major part of the community. Over its 60 years

of existence, the club has raised more than a million dollars; funds have

gone to support local causes and charitable acts around the world.

Other worthy initiatives the Badger's Quay Lions Club participates in

include an eyeglass recycling program that brings the gift of sight to

residents in impoverished countries, and training service dogs for their

friends and neighbours with medical needs.

Another project that's worthy of recognition is their commitment to the

Local Polar Bears. The Lions Club donates their building to the Special

Olympians on Thursday nights, promoting empowerment through participation in

sport.

Under current president Tracy Stagg, the Lions Club's 21 members continue to

demonstrate a commitment to community volunteerism that has endured for the

club's 60 years of existence.

ask all Members of this hon. House to join me in recognizing the Badger's

Quay Lions Club for this significant role.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Mount Pearl North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

rise in this hon. House today to congratulate and recognize two individuals

who live in my district, Ron and Ethel MacNeil. Ron and Ethel currently

reside in Masonic Park and are greatly involved in the community and the

seniors' programs at Masonic Park.

Mr.

Speaker, I would like to honour both of them on being outstanding artists

and pursuing their talents. Ethel didn't realize that she had the ability to

paint until her late 60s. Since then, she continues to paint and has a

passion for it. In fact, one of her prints hangs in my house proudly. Ron,

on the other hand, has always been aware of his talent. Ron started knitting

at a very young age and hasn't stopped since.

Recently, one of Ron's cross-stitch pieces of the Battery was noticed and is

now hanging in Government House here in St. John's. I encourage anyone who

is visiting Government House to take a look.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all Members of this House to join me in congratulating Ron

and Ethel MacNeil on their accomplishments to date, and wish them all the

best in continuing to do what they love.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I stand today to acknowledge the Portugal Cove-St. Philip's community awards

ceremonies held this past Monday. I had the privilege of bringing greetings

and presenting awards. The gala was a very classy event, with long-time

Portugal Cove-St. Philip's resident VOCM personality Fred Hutton serving as

master of ceremonies.

Awards were presented in the categories of Youth, Volunteer, Athletics and

Business. We were entertained by former Portugal Cove-St. Philip's resident,

International Long-Distance Runner and Coach Ray Will, as guest speaker. All

categories had recipients who excelled locally, provincially, nationally and

internationally.

would like to acknowledge the following awards recipients: Youth Award,

Nathan Chaulk; Seniors Award, Rebecca Tucker; Service Award, Women's

Institute; Volunteer Award, Janet Martin; Male Athlete Award, Kyle Williams;

Female Athlete Award, Jessica Greeley; Coach Award, Neil Penney; Team Award,

the Royal Canadian Legion national dart champions; Employee Award, Everett

Sacrey; New Business, Beachy Cove Caf; Developer Award, Mike O'Leary; and

Business Award, Country Convenience Store.

The

gala ended with a passionate and entertaining reception acceptance speech by

the Business of the Year recipient, Ron Sullivan of Country Convenience.

Ron, an 80-year-old resident recovering from a stroke, had us all in

stitches and tears about the pride he has as a business owner in Portugal

Cove-St. Philip's.

ask all Members to join me in congratulating all recipients.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. George's Humber.

MR. REID:

Mr. Speaker, recently a

Start-up Weekend, which involved entrepreneurs pitching their business ideas

to potential investors and mentors, was held at Grenfell Campus of Memorial

University. This event was hosted by the Grenfell Office of Engagement's

Navigate Entrepreneurship Centre, in partnership with Start-up Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Start-up Newfoundland and Labrador was built on the belief that

entrepreneurs helping entrepreneurs is the best formula for start-up

success. With this in mind, Start-up Weeks are an effort to give value to

the community by bringing together existing start-ups and those who want to

create one.

Through working with the Grenfell Office of Engagement and other groups in

the community, Start-up Newfoundland and Labrador is working to provide a

strong network of support and help people to begin the journey from idea to

company. At the event in Corner Brook, 14 pitches were made and seven were

selected for further work throughout the event.

want to congratulate the entrepreneurs who came forward to participate in

the weekend and wish them well in their ventures. I also recognize the work

of the organizations and volunteers who made this weekend such a success.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

The Commemoration

of the First World War and the Battle of Beaumont - Hamel

MR. SPEAKER:

Today for Honour 100 we

have the Member for Fogo Island Cape Freels.

MR. BRAGG:

I will now read into the

record the following 40 names of those who lost their lives in the First

World War in the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, the Royal Newfoundland Naval

Reserve or the Newfoundland Mercantile Marine. This will be followed by a

moment of silence.

Lest

we forget: Michael Joseph Jackman, Thomas Jackson, Frederick James

Jacobs, Harold G. Jacobs, Walter Jacobs, John James, Albert Evelyn Janes,

Charles Janes, Dercie H. Janes, Frederick Janes, George Janes, George Robert

Janes, Maxwell Janes, Stephen Janes, William Janes, Richard Jarvis, John

Allan

Jeans, Silas Jeffers, Frank Jerrett, Levi Jerrett, Leo Francis Jesso,

Alfred Johnson, George Johnson, John Joseph Johnson, Arthur Jones,

James Jones, Nathaniel Jones, William Jones, Edward Joy, William

Joyce, Clifford Henry Oliver Jupp, George Kane, Edward Kavanagh, John James

Kavanagh, Thomas Joseph Kavanagh, Edgar Kean, Thomas Joseph Kean, Wallace

Kean, Walter Arthur Keane and Eber Kearley.

(Moment of silence.)

MR. SPEAKER:

Please be seated.

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize the

commemoration of an historic event, the Battle of the Atlantic.

Each year, on the first Sunday in May, we remember

those who were lost in this Battle during World War II.

Mr. Speaker, the Battle of the Atlantic was bravely

fought by the Royal Canadian Navy, the Royal Canadian Air Force and the

Merchant Navy, as they protected the shipping lanes on the North Atlantic

Ocean.

Newfoundland and Labrador played a significant role in

this battle. St. John's was vital to the supply and maintenance of the

trans-Atlantic escorts that facilitated the critical convoys feeding the

Allied war effort in Europe.

Unfortunately, the Royal Canadian Navy had

approximately 2,000 fatalities and lost 24 warships. The Royal Canadian Air

Force lost over 900

aircrews and the Merchant Navy had over 1,700 fatalities and lost more than

70 ships.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all Members to join me in honouring all the men and women of

our armed forces both past and present for their tremendous contributions.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, I'd like to thank the Premier for an advance copy of his

statement today. The Battle of the Atlantic is known to many historians as

the longest, continuous, military campaign of the Second World War lasting

from September 1939 until defeat of Germany in 1945. During those six years,

German U-boats and warships, Italian submarines battled against allied

forces who were trying to bring military supplies and equipment across the

Atlantic to the European front.

Mr.

Speaker, each May we know we commemorate this as a significant event for

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and we also join with the government in

recognizing the contribution of many Newfoundlanders, all those who served

in the war, those who lost their lives, were injured and especially served

in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

too, thank the Premier for the advance copy of his statement. I think it is

important to remember the brave men and women who risked their lives

ensuring the vital Atlantic supply route stayed open. All experienced long

days and harrowing nights at sea dreading German submarines, such as the one

that sank ships in broad daylight in the Bell Island tickle. Theirs was a

generation who faced adversity and overcame it, certainly an inspiration for

us today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

The

hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

rise today to recognize May 2 to 8 as Mental Health Week. On Thursday past,

I joined members of the Newfoundland and Labrador Division of the Canadian

Mental Health Association to officially proclaim this week.

All

week long, Confederation Building will be lit green to raise awareness and

build support for mental health.

This

year's theme, GET LOUD, encourages people to stand up, speak out and join

the conversation to help end the discrimination and stigma that exists

around mental health. This week is an opportunity to take action for those

who struggle. For someone at work; for someone at school; a family member;

or, for ourselves.

want to highlight Bridge the gAPP

a free online mental health app accessible from a computer, tablet or

phone that connects youth and adults with guidance and support for mental

health. The app is available for free download on the Apple App Store or

through Google Play or at bridgethegapp.ca.

Bridge the gAPP also connects

individuals to the BreathingRoom an online self-management program that

assists people in managing stress, depression and anxiety. I encourage

everyone to try these tools for themselves.

behalf of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, I commend the many

groups and individuals throughout our province who continue to advocate for

mental health throughout the year.

are pleased to be part of the All-Party Committee on Mental Health and

Addictions and are eager to move towards the development of recommendations

that will be brought forward in this House on how to improve overall

programs and services in Newfoundland and Labrador. We aim to have this

completed by the end of June.

encourage all residents to raise their voices and GET LOUD for mental

health.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

thank the minister as well for a copy of his statement today. Mr. Speaker,

Members on this side of the House, we've always held mental health as a

priority for us. It's very unfortunate right now for the people of the

province, especially those who struggle with mental health, that while our

current government promised everything back in November, they brought down a

budget that provides nothing for people who need it most.

Also, we know that the budget is going to create higher levels of anxiety

and stress in our population than we have seen before. So more than ever

before, we know that people are going to need support and assistance.

recognize Mental Health Week and hope to see the people of the province GET

LOUD for mental health and have faith that things will get better in the

future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement. GET LOUD the

people have been very loud; government isn't listening. Of course we support

mental health initiatives, but we need more than apps and slogans from this

government. There is important work to be done and this government has cut

deeper into an already inadequate mental health system.

Two

million in cuts to mental health and addiction services including closing

the Rowan Centre; 10-bed unit at the Waterford Hospital gone; wait-lists for

psychologists up to 18 months the people are getting louder, but will

government listen?

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

The

hon. the Minister of Seniors, Wellness and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, I rise

to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Association for Community

Living on 60 years of working with and on behalf of persons with

intellectual disabilities and their families to promote inclusion and

support a person's right to full citizenship within society.

The

provincial government was happy to support this association's 60th

anniversary conference and I was pleased to have the opportunity to address

participants on Friday along with my colleagues the Minister of Justice and

Public Safety and Education and Early Childhood Development.

Budget 2016 investments support inclusion through such things as inclusion

recreation and sport development initiatives for person with disabilities,

as well as educational and employment supports.

minister, I will continue working with advocacy groups and community

stakeholders to promote a more inclusive province and review existing

legislation and regulations with the goal of enacting a new inclusion-based

Disabilities Act .

With

50 per cent of our population impacted by disability, personally or through

a family member, we must continue to work with organizations such as this

one to advance inclusion throughout our province.

Please join me in congratulating the Newfoundland and Labrador Association

for Community Living on 60 years of successes and wishing them many, many

more.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement today. We, too,

want to congratulate the Association for Community Living on 60 years of

service that they've provided to the people of the province.

The

mission of the Association for Community Living is to work with and on

behalf of individuals with an intellectual disability and their families.

For 60 years, they have not only delivered results to the community, but

they have enriched the lives of so many people in our province. They are to

be celebrated and commended.

know the minister is a former executive director. I congratulate her for her

time with the association as well.

Mr.

Speaker, we look forward to the new disabilities act that the minister

referenced; however, when talking about this budget, there are no new

investments in this budget to support inclusion or the advancement of the

association's work. I have no doubt in the strength and vitality of the

group.

offer my sincere congratulations to the Newfoundland and Labrador

Association for Community Living on their 60 years of service to this

province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement. Congratulations to

the Newfoundland and Labrador Association for Community Living on their

absolutely essential work.

The

minister talks about investments, but Budget 2016 made panic cuts, making

the work of disability and inclusion organizations more difficult.

Government cut home support hours and put a two-hour cap on home making

hours, a program that helps people live independently. Government also

reduced capacity and inclusion funding by $150,000, money these groups need

for community development and ensuring inclusion across the board.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. ROGERS:

Bravo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

The

Minister of Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in

this hon. House today to recognize May 1 to 7 as North American Occupational

Safety and Health Week, also called NAOSH Week.

NAOSH Week highlights the importance of controlling workplace hazards and

reminds employers and workers of their shared responsibility to promote a

strong safety culture.

Today, I participated in a flag raising organized by the Canadian Society of

Safety Engineers to mark this occasion. I want to recognize Donald Ross,

vice-president of Atlantic Canada, Canadian Society of Safety Engineers,

who's in the gallery who flew down from Halifax for this event; and also

Barry Fitzgerald, who is also chair of the Newfoundland

chapter for

organizing the event today.

was joined by the officials from WorkplaceNL, and representatives from

safety groups and the employer and labour sectors.

want to thank each of them for their participation, and for the important

role they play in promoting safe workplaces.

Mr.

Speaker, the provincial government's role is regulatory, and I want to note

that our Occupational Health and Safety Branch is very active.

2015, there were almost 5,000 inspections conducted in the province,

resulting in almost 13,000 directives being issued, 725 of which were

stop-work orders.

Our

government will continue to fulfill its role, in partnership with employers

and the workers, to promote a stronger safety culture in the province.

will conclude by thanking the Canadian Society of Safety Engineers for

making NAOSH Week a priority every year.

May

we always remember to promote safety in both our professional and personal

lives.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much,

Mr. Speaker.

want to thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. We, as the

Official Opposition, do recognize May 1 to May 7 as Occupational Safety and

Health Week. I, too, want to thank the organizers of this event today for

the great job that they did. It was so nice to be there with so many people

from the industry and people that are in the workplace that realize that

over the last number of years we've come a long way.

Today, in some of the statements that were made, people were looking at

statistics. If you look at the statistics, Newfoundland and Labrador is

heading in the right direction. Any industry or any industry in Newfoundland

and Labrador that there is an injury, we want to eliminate it as best we

can. But there are little things that we can do to make sure our workplace

is safe. Those little things are to make sure that everybody is educated and

everybody understands that workplace safety is so important to our families

that everyone goes home

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. K. PARSONS:

safe and sound.

Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to congratulate

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

Member's time for speaking has expired.

The

hon. the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

too, thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. Last year,

more than 3,500 workers lost time from injuries and work-related illnesses

and 24 lost their lives. I commend the OHS officers in the province who do a

great job uncovering violations and working with employers to make

workplaces safe.

note, though, it is time for us to follow the practice in other provinces

and post online the names of employers who receive stop-work orders, just

like we do restaurant violations to protect workers and consumers.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, it's another day and it's another day of Liberal appalling decisions.

At a time when the Premier has stated that every dollar counts and people of

the province have been dealt a devastating blow with this Liberal budget,

this weekend we learned from the media, not from government that the

Liberals have retained outside legal counsel for labour negotiations.

ask the Premier to clarify why outside legal counsel has been hired. What

message does this send to our public servants?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

Our

provincial government is committed to ensuring a sustainable public service

and having a fair and effective bargaining process. The engagement of the

firm that will support our collective bargaining efforts, which are led by

the very talented officials in the Human Resource Secretariat and supported

by the Department of Justice, is being supplemented. The last collective

bargaining period, there were 14 individuals who were working on collective

bargaining. This time, there are eight individuals inside core government

working on collective bargaining.

For

the Member opposite, I would remind him during the pension negotiations last

year, both union and government engaged law firms, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

the minister mentioned, she has her own division of collective bargaining.

There are 85 or 90 or more lawyers in the Department of Justice. They've

decided to use hard-earned money, levy money, no doubt, that they've

collected from Newfoundlanders and Labradorians to go outside.

ask the Premier this: What's the rate you will pay McInnes Cooper? Is there

a cap on that billing? Premier, can you answer that, please?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, salaries

and benefits represent $3.8 billion of the program spending of the

provincial government. In order to make sure that the interests of the

people of the province are well represented, it is important we make sure we

have the resources.

As I

mentioned in the earlier answer, in prior collective bargaining, there were

14 individuals that were available throughout core government to be able to

be used for the bargaining. This time, we have eight very talented

individuals who will be supporting the bargaining. We will be supplementing

that with outside help.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. C. BENNETT:

Members opposite

would be very familiar with the use of law firms as additional support,

particularly when government, I believe, last time used two law firms during

the negotiations on pensions. The unions also used a law firm, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Mr. Speaker, the question

was very simple. The question was: What is the rate that McInnes Cooper will

be paid? I'm sure the minister must know that.

The

Premier won't answer, so I'll ask the minister now: What is the rate they're

being paid and, also, what is the cap on billing for McInnes Cooper? A very

simple question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The

hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

The

rate of the contract that we have in place with McInnes Cooper is $350 an

hour for the legal support. And for the Member opposite, I can let him know

as well that since McInnes Cooper has been engaged to support there's been

$14,000 worth of billing to March 28.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

they've already got this process underway.

I'll

ask the Premier: With a full Department of Justice, a full department of

lawyers I think I counted last night in the salaries about 87 solicitors

in the Department of Justice, 87 solicitors and who else knows how many in

the department. We have a full division of collective bargaining that are

responsible for bargaining and negotiating, and a full contingent of

communications professionals throughout government. Have you lost confidence

in these public servants?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I have

extreme confidence in the public service and their desire to serve the best

interest of the people of the province.

Mr.

Speaker, I also know, and the Member opposite would know, that collective

bargaining is conducted in private and is confidential. All matters

surrounding collective bargaining, the process is confidential for both

sides. Just like we are not aware of what the unions are planning, it is up

to us to make sure that we prepare our plans to represent the peoples

interest.

When

we are at the table we will have discussions that are in the best interest

of the people of the province. Most importantly, we will get at those tables

and bargain in good faith, and we will not bargain in public.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Official Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

minister still hasn't advised if there's a cap on billing.

So I

ask her once again: Is there a cap on billings for McInnes Cooper, and, if

so, what is the amount?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I can

assure the people of the province that this government, unlike the former

administration, is going to be extremely frugal and make sure that the

decisions we make are financially in the best interest of the province, not

leaving billions and billions of dollars of debt left for future

generations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

either the minister doesn't know or there is no cap. At this point in time

she knows her part well so we'll have to take it from her answer that there

is no cap.

I'll

ask the Minister of Justice, who leads the Department of Justice and Public

Safety and the dozens and dozens of lawyers that we have working in the

department: Have you lost confidence in the officials in your department?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Justice.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

I'm

happy to answer this question from the Member opposite who should be aware

that while we have a number of lawyers, they all have different areas of

expertise. Certainly, you wouldn't engage somebody that handles agricultural

law to lead our labour negotiations.

this case I think, as the Minister of Finance has indicated, we actually

have less individuals handling negotiations than the government that was in

place had previously and have engaged outside council as has been done by

many provinces, unions and the previous government.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

minister hasn't answered the question.

I'll

ask the Minister of Finance, who has a full division of collective

bargaining, now she says there's only eight there now well, she can answer

why. It may be a decision she's made to only have eight that are involved

with collective bargaining and negotiating, but she has a full division of

collective bargaining and negotiating team within her department.

you still have confidence in those officials, Minister?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I can

assure the people of the province and this hon. House that I have tremendous

confidence in the officials that are working in the Department of the Human

Resource Secretariat that will also be supported by the legal team in the

Department of Justice.

Collective bargaining happens not every year and as a result, because there

is a peak in the amount of work that is undertaken, it is important that

that peak be managed and supported so that the officials who work for the

people of the province can be best supported to get the job done to make

sure, number one, we bargain in good faith; and, number two, that we

represent the interest of the people of the province, Mr. Speaker. I have

every confidence in our officials to do that, supplemented with the support

from outside council.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

So, Mr. Speaker, the

Liberals have increased taxes and fees. They've introduced a fee just to

live right here in Newfoundland and Labrador. They're closing schools,

they're closing libraries, they're closing long-term care beds and the list

goes on; however, they have the money to hire external communication support

and, more importantly, a Liberal insider with ties back to the Tobin and

Grimes era and, most recently, ties to the election in the fall of 2015.

ask the Premier: How can you justify spending hundreds of thousands of

dollars? It could be millions, because we don't know at this point time. How

could you justify spending that amount of money unnecessarily and how does

this take the politics out of appointments?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, the

Member opposite might like to add zeros to things that he doesn't understand

but I did not say in this House that this consulting would cost millions. If

he wants to continue to mislead the province by making up fabrications, Mr.

Speaker, I will let him use his time to do that.

McInnes Cooper has been engaged to provide support for the department of the

Human Resource Secretariat and the Department of Justice. They have

suggested and recommended that they have other experts available. That was a

decision that was made during that process.

Mr.

Speaker, we will not be spending, as the Member opposite is suggesting,

millions and millions of dollars to negotiate with our valuable public

service. But I can tell you the one thing we won't do; we won't make

mistakes in collective bargaining that create these billions of dollars of

debt that the other governments have made.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Official Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

The minister doesn't

believe we should have provided the salaries and benefits to public servants

that they have been provided with very interesting.

She

also made a comment that we don't understand, Mr. Speaker. It's interesting

that the minister likes to stand up and say I don't understand. Well, it's

obvious to her, if she paid attention, the people of the province don't

understand either, Minister.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Your own caucus does not

understand your budget, Minister. As well, not only that, the media doesn't

understand your budget, I say to the minister. So it's not only the people

of the province who are not getting your budget, Minister. Maybe what is

common here is you, Minister. You should think about that. Maybe it's common

for you.

MR. SPEAKER:

I ask the Member to get

to his question.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Mr. Speaker, I'm going to

ask the Premier another question. He doesn't want to answer today, but I'm

going to ask him: What process was used to select McInnes Cooper? Was this a

sole-sourced contract?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, as the

former premier of the province would know, the Department of Justice has the

ability to engage with legal counsel when it feels necessary, and in this

case that's exactly what happened. If the Member opposite wants to create

falsehoods and continue to present falsehoods, that's entirely up to him,

but the day of reckoning is going to come, Mr. Speaker.

Let

me be clear, every single dollar that is spent on valuable public services

is important. What I argued about with the Member opposite a couple of

minutes ago were the decisions that government made when they were in power

that wasted money, that didn't put money away for a rainy day and have us in

this province, Mr. Speaker, with the highest debt per capita of any province

in Canada.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Official Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Mr. Speaker, I asked the

Premier what the cap was. The minister got up to answer and the minister

won't say what the cap is. So if she won't provide the information to the

people, then it puts us in a bit of a difficult situation, and also the

people of the province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

When

they won't tell us what the cap is or what the amount is, then it puts us at

that disadvantage. Not only that, but the people of the province want to

know. Because of the dozens of phone calls and messages that we continued to

receive over the weekend, especially on this matter, people want to know,

Mr. Speaker.

the campaign trail last year, the Liberals had said trust us. That's what

they said. In a December 22 news release the Liberals stated: Departments

and ABCs are to review plans to hire consultants and assess whether the work

can be deferred or performed using internal staff resources.

I ask the Premier: Can you inform the House why he's

hired external legal counsel and communications for work that can be done

internally?

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, as I said in an earlier question, bargaining with our

valuable public sector employees is a very important undertaking for a

government. That collective bargaining will take place this year.

We have some 27 collective agreements that will expire

in 2016, 11 NAPE contracts, six CUPE contracts. We also have agreements with

the nurses, the Association of Allied Health Professionals, as well as

teachers. It is important for us to make sure that as we assess about

ability to get the valuable work done of collective bargaining, with the

talents we have inside government, that we also make the decisions about how

to best supplement that in what will be a peak period of activity, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will ask the Premier this: Was Mr. John Green, a

former partner with McInnes Cooper and current interim Chair of Nalcor, part

of any conversations about hiring McInnes Cooper?

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the former premier would know, Mr. Green who was

appointed by his administration to one of the affiliated boards of Nalcor

actually made himself available in this particular case while we're waiting

for the Independent Appointments Commission. Mr. Green is in an unpaid

position as Chair of Nalcor right now. We thank him for the volunteer work

he's doing on behalf of the province right now.

As the Member has just identified, the contract with

McInnes Cooper is one that is there to support the negotiations that will be

beginning with the valuable workers who are already part of this bargaining

process. Using McInnes Cooper, bringing their advice to the table is

important for all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, its National Mental Health Week but here in Newfoundland and

Labrador the Liberal government has just cut resources for mental health

programs and services.

I ask the Premier: If mental health is a priority as

he stated in the fall why are you removing resources from the system that

we all know is under-resourced?

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm glad to have the opportunity to state quite clearly

for the House, there have been no reductions in community services to mental

health. There have been some reallocations of staff from areas of severe

underutilization to best support those areas which are more overworked. So I

would refute the Member opposite's premise in the first place.

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount Pearl North.

SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, instead of

reallocating resources they're taking a couple of million dollars out of the

system, and those dollars are much needed. The Liberal government talked a

lot about mental health during the fall election campaign and the minister

talks about our all-party committee but there's not a single dollar in the

recent budget to support the implementation of anything that the all-party

committee might recommend this year. In fact, there are less resources in

this budget overall for mental health services.

How

can people believe you're sincere about making things better when your

budget clearly suggests otherwise?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Health and Community Services.

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

the Member opposite who sits on the all-party committee on mental health

would know, until that report is generated it's not possible to know what

resources are necessary. That's the purpose of the mental health all-party

committee.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the MHA for

St. George's Humber wants library closures revisited and another Liberal

MHA says it's a terrible budget. The MHA for Bonavista says he'll fight

against budget cuts; yet, they will all stand when it counts and vote for

the budget instead of voting with their constituents.

ask the Premier: Why are so many of your MHAs following your lead and saying

one thing but then doing another?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, as we listen to the question, I can guarantee you there is one thing

that the Member opposite got right, that this is a tough budget. It is a

tough budget, though, because the former administration didn't plan for

today, they didn't manage for today and the choices are very clear, there

was absolutely no choice I would say, Mr. Speaker, $2.7 billion in a deficit

this year

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

PREMIER BALL:

nearly tripling the per

capita debt in our province in just seven years. That was your

responsibility to plan for where we are today. You failed to do it. Our

Members have a chance to speak out. I wish you had spoken up earlier when

your recognized the financial position you had put this province in.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the Premier

is clearly angry today. If I had Cabinet leaks after only five months in

office, I'd be angry too.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Speaking of which, in a

recent Cabinet meeting before budget the Minister of Municipal Affairs and

the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills both spoke against the Liberal

levy. The Finance Minister said the levy won't be included in her budget

calculator tool that isn't done yet. So now we're hearing from several

sources that the Liberals will be cancelling the levy.

ask the Premier: When will you announce the cancelation of the Liberal levy?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

soon as we can get the fiscal house of this province in shape, that's what

we will do.

The

Member opposite just completely ignores the great program that we have put

in place, the investment in low-income families in our province, our seniors

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

PREMIER BALL:

people with

disabilities.

Why

will you not talk about the $76.4 million that we've invested in the income

support supplement program? Right now, we have just less than 40 per cent of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that will not pay a temporary levy. It's a

temporary levy and as soon as we can get this province back in shape

earlier than you guys did, I will guarantee you this levy will go because

that's what it's meant to do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Before I recognize the Member for Mount Pearl North, I will ask all Members

to respect the individual that I've identified to take the floor and speak.

The

hon. the Member for Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the Premier

isn't listening to his Cabinet. He isn't listening to his caucus. He isn't

listening to the people of the province.

I'll ask again: Premier, will you cancel the Liberal levy, yes or no?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

are going to be very happy to cancel this temporary levy. First and

foremost, we've got a lot of work to do because of the big mess that you

left this province in.

Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Member opposite is just simply ignoring that in

seven years, based on their plan, that the former premier said in the media

this week they had a plan well, their plan would have been $53,000 in just

seven years per capita debt to the people of our province; second would have

been Quebec at $22,000.

Mr.

Speaker, those numbers are stark. They had an opportunity with $25 billion

in oil money and royalties. Where is that gone? Four billion dollars in tax

decreases tax decreases, I would say, to higher income earners in our

province. That's who you gave your tax decreases to.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Mount Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the MHA for

Harbour Grace Port de Grave claimed that she had no input into the budget

and last week upon hearing about library cuts, the MHA for Terra Nova said

it was news to him. But the Premier maintains that everyone had input.

ask the Premier: Will you finally listen and make changes to the budget, or

will you allow your MHAs to vote with their constituents?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Members on this side of the House, we are actively engaged with all of them

about the difficult decisions that will have to be made in this budget. It

is definitely unprecedented, Mr. Speaker. It's been widely known. We've seen

people look at the mess that we've inherited from this previous government

and they've looked at it and they all know that there were very few choices

that we had to make.

Mr.

Speaker, our job right now is to secure the fiscal future of our province,

and that's what we're about to do. This budget is the first step in doing

that, and we'll be happy to work with Newfoundlanders and Labradorians on

alternate measures that we can put in place. Things like the temporary levy

that's in place right now, we will be drawing that back. As a matter of

fact, Mr. Speaker, in the budget documents that has already been presented,

there is a plan to do just that. When you look at the forecast over the next

seven years, there is a process in place to get rid of that temporary levy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Many

schools are starting to get the true picture of what Liberal choices will

mean. Parents are outraged with the reality that classrooms will be combined

with two grades in many schools throughout the province. Grade threes and

fours will share a teacher and classrooms in many schools. The same goes for

fives and sixes.

ask the minister: How can you justify proceeding with full-day kindergarten

at the expense of older children who will now have to merge in combined

classrooms?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Thanks to the Member for

the question.

Interesting that the Member didn't have a similar concern last year when

they decided to remove 78 positions from the school system and also told the

people of the province it would have absolutely no impact on the system at

all would not put any hardship.

The

Member we didn't hear a word from him back in 2013 when they reduced all

matter of teaching positions, everything from school librarians to

administration to specialized positions. They cut and they cut and they

hacked and they cut. That member never stood up and said a single word. In

fact, he stood in his place and talked about how great the budget was

cutting units.

know this is going to cause additional strain on the school system. We admit

that. We're in a difficult situation, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Before I recognize the Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island, I'd ask

the Member for Cape St. Francis to please respect the identified individual

to speak.

The

Member for Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

wasn't our administration who cut 219 teaching positons this past week. It

wasn't this administration putting in blended classrooms.

While we support and believe in all-day kindergarten, I ask the minister:

Will he now reconsider implementing the full-day kindergarten? How can we

slash and cut teachers and programs for grades one to 12 while spending

approximately $100 million over the next three years?

Tell

me how we can do that and have better education in this province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, I think

we've been pretty clear on the implementation of full-day kindergarten and

the plan to go ahead in September because of the benefits it has for young

children. I wish the Member opposite shared that interest in early learning.

Everybody else across the country seems to get it. They don't seem to get

it.

For

the Member's information, this year was a net reduction of 73 teaching

units. Unlike last year, when they decreased that by more, by 78, and stood

here in the House of Assembly and talking about how great the budget was

while they were cutting teaching positions.

acknowledge the move to combine grades is going to cause teachers additional

issues when it comes to classroom management and delivering on learning

objectives, but the bulk of the research in this area shows a negligible

impact on student achievement. Those are the facts. I encourage the Member

to read up.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

don't think I've ever seen a Premier privatize his or her own job. We have

no money for libraries and this government is socking it to low- and

mid-income earners with the levy but we can pay $350 an hour for high priced

help to do the collective bargaining when we already have well qualified

government employees to do it.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask the Premier: How many lawyers, at $350 an hour, are going to

be used? What will be the estimated total cost of these services as well as

that of the reported communications consulting services?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, for the

Member opposite, for clarity it's one lawyer at a rate of $350 an hour. As

Members of this House would be very familiar with, both sides of the House,

when there are negotiations about complex bargaining issues, particularly

like there was with pension bargaining and the changes in the pension plan

last year, government of the day at that time had two law firms engaged and

I believe the public sector unions also had a law firm engaged in that

activity, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

are we going to find out in Estimates how much money has been set aside for

these services because they still haven't given us the total cost, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. MICHAEL:

Mr. Speaker, I ask the

Premier: How many libraries could have been kept with the money government

plans to spend on this unnecessary expenditure?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

went out and had a chat with the media this morning to just clarify some of

the issues around the reorganization and the regionalization of the library

system. One of the things I wanted to reassure people, that there are 25

libraries associated in the municipal buildings that are not going to have

any discontinuation of service until sometime about a year from now.

spoke with the chair of the Libraries Board this morning. We've been in

fairly consistent contact with the administration of the Libraries Board.

They are going to be working on a transitional plan that respects all the

unique situations in individual communities and work with groups at the

local level to try and find solutions if they want to have services to

continue beyond next year, Mr. Speaker.

Thanks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, in

responding to the tax on books and the closing of 54 libraries, one of our

best known authors, Kevin Major, said: this week I was humiliated by my

government. Other prominent writers and performing artists have also spoken

out, along with people across the province and country.

ask the Premier: Will he end this national embarrassment and cancel the

proposed tax on books and closure of libraries?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development.

MR. MITCHELMORE:

Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, for the opportunity to answer the question.

met with the Writers' Alliance and the book publishers earlier today, and I

met with them prior to the budget as well. What I will say is that Budget

2016 certainly was filled with many difficult decisions. When you look at

the HST on books, there is no change to the purchase of eBook services. They

always had the HST.

we look at school libraries, public libraries, and other institutions like

post-secondary institutions that qualify for the federal tax credit, the

rebate, they will still only pay the 5 per cent. They won't pay any more

than what they are paying now. So there is no change for those to be able to

access books at that affordable price.

terms of the library changes, I'll certainly speak

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, he wasn't listening to the people he met with, particularly the

publishers and people who care about libraries.

Mr.

Speaker, the Department of Finance has a brand new line which adds $20

million in grants and subsidies to that department which was not highlighted

on budget day.

ask the Premier: What exactly is that brand new line item of $20 million

designated for?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, I'll

certainly provide the information to the Member opposite. The Estimates book

is significantly large and I look forward to her showing me the exact line

item that she's referring to and we can provide some details.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Member for St. John's Centre for a quick question.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, the minister has put $20 million into a special pot of funding

to dole out instead of keeping much needed libraries, schools and dialysis

units open.

the $20 million a slush fund for the Minister of Finance to do with as she

sees fit?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Finance and President of Treasury Board.

MS. C. BENNETT:

Mr. Speaker, the

Finance department Estimates haven't been done yet, so I understand why the

Member opposite has questions. Certainly, I'll be able to provide her that

information in Estimates and happy to bring that information into the House

if she wants that tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The time for Question

Period has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government

House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to Standing Order 11, I give notice that the House do not adjourn

on Tuesday, May 3, at 5:30 p.m.

Further to Standing Order 11, I also give notice that this House will not

adjourn at 10 p.m. on Tuesday, May 3, 2016.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of

motion?

Answers to Questions for Which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of

the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS emergency responders are at greater risk of post-traumatic stress

disorder;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to enact legislation containing a

presumptive clause with respect to PTSD for people employed in various

front-line emergency response professions including firefighters, emergency

medical services professionals, police officers, not already covered under

the federal legislation.

And

as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, this week being a week where we acknowledge and we discuss and we

understand the importance of mental health and having discussions about

mental health, I believe this petition is very timely at this point in time.

MR. JOYCE:

(Inaudible.)

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Post-traumatic stress disorder, PTSD, is better understood today than it

ever has been before in history. It's becoming better understood as time

goes on. PTSD can affect front-line workers in many ways. It can be an

illness and an impact related directly to the jobs they do in protecting the

public in their various forms of emergency services that goes unnoticed for

many, many years.

know of a large number of cases where police officers, firefighters, medical

emergency responders who, later in their career, are slowly and eventually

figuring out that many of the illnesses they've endured during their

lifetime, many of the experiences and the place they find themselves in that

particular day is as a result of post-traumatic stress disorder. Being

exposed to chaotic and stressful, and quite often fatal circumstances, that

quite often could be out of control and which they have to work at to bring

under control and to provide those emergency responses.

know now today, Mr. Speaker, as I said, better than ever before, how broadly

and how ranging this is. Under today's legislation, workers' compensation

has a very narrow view on who can be eligible for coverage under workers'

compensation for PTSD. As a matter of fact, when a person gets diagnosed

with PTSD, if they file for workers' compensation, they'll be told: Tell me

what event caused your illness? What event caused the PTSD?

also know better than we ever did before that quite often it's not a single

event. It's an accumulation of events. It's that continuing mounting

pressure and the stress on top of front responders, sometimes after months

or years of being exposed to these chaotic situations, as I mentioned, some

quite often fatal or multiple fatalities in a situation that it creates the

PTSD.

This

petition is to encourage our government to enact legislation containing a

presumptive clause so that if a person is diagnosed with PTSD it would be

presumed that it occurred in the workplace. Because, Mr. Speaker, quite

often it is very difficult to prove otherwise but it's a presumption that

happens in other places in Canada under other circumstances. What this

petition is doing is asking government to consider doing the same thing.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

St. John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly

sheweth:

WHEREAS the deficit reduction levy is an extremely regressive surtax placing

a higher tax burden on low and middle income taxpayers; and

WHEREAS surtaxes are typically levied on the highest income earners only as

currently demonstrated in other provinces as well as Australia, Norway and

other countries; and

WHEREAS government states in a 2016 provincial budget that the personal

income tax

schedule needs to be revised and promises to do so;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to ensure that the deficit reduction

levy be eliminated and any replacement measure be based on progressive

taxation principles and that an independent view of the Newfoundland and

Labrador provincial income tax system begin immediately to make it fairer to

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

And

as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, I have submitted a number of these petitions over the last two

weeks, as has my colleague from St. John's East Quidi Vidi. People are so

willing to sign this petition because they want to be heard about the levy.

We know the people of the province know that the levy is regressive.

believe that probably almost every single Member of the House of Assembly

knows that this levy is regressive. I also believe that almost every Member

of the government, every MHA in government knows that this levy is

regressive. I believe that most people in this House regret that government

has put forth this levy because, for instance, Mr. Speaker, it's so clear

how unprogressive this is.

you have two earners in one household each earning $50,000, both those

earners in that small household will each pay $600 on the levy. So from that

one small household, they will pay $1,200. They've got a mortgage to pay.

They've got extra insurance on their car, extra insurance on their house.

They've got an extra HST by 2 per cent. They're going to be paying extra

income tax. They're going to be paying $1,200 for the levy just for that

year.

Their next-door neighbour may be making $350,000, one single earner in that

house. That single household will pay only $900, although they're making

over three times what their next-door neighbour is. So their next-door

neighbour with two income earners are making $100,000 collectively, their

levy will be $1,200. The next-door neighbour who's making 3 times what

they're making will only pay $900. Mr. Speaker, there's something totally

out of whack and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador know.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS this Deficit Reduction Levy, as introduced in Budget 2016, unfairly

targets the middle class; and

WHEREAS the Deficit Reduction Levy asks low-income earners to pay more than

their fair share instead of increasing taxes to high-income earners;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to immediately stop the introduction of

the temporary Deficit Reduction Levy.

And

as in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. PETTEN:

Mr. Speaker, as my

colleague just spoke on a petition on the levy, I'd go a different angle

with it. The levy, as we all know, has been well documented. It's been a

very unpopular levy. We've all been bombarded with emails. We understand the

impact it's on middle-income earners.

When

you take that in insolation, people are upset. When you put that in

conjunction with the rest of the budget items of your added 15 per cent to

your insurance, your income tax, your gas tax, all fee increases, the levy

is patently unfair to middle-class earners.

Mr.

Speaker, as we have said here, I could bring in a stack of petitions to back

up my claim of the people's view on this levy. People have views. The levy

is bad but altogether the levy is just totally unpopular. It's the most

regressive, unpopular tax I think that's ever been introduced. When you put

it with everything else, this budget, in total, is just unbearable for most

people.

I do

call upon government to revisit the levy. Actually, as a matter of fact, I

think they should revisit a lot, but start with the levy.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much,

Mr. Speaker.

the House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of

Newfoundland and Labrador humbly sheweth;

WHEREAS policy regulations link snow crab harvesting quotas to vessel

length; and

WHEREAS many harvesters own fishing vessels of various sizes but because of

the policy regulations are restricted to using a smaller vessel, often

putting their crews in danger;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the

House of Assembly to urge government to make representation to the federal

government to encourage them to change the policy, thus ensuring the safety

of those harvesting snow crab.

believe the minister would agree with this, Mr. Speaker, because what's

happening now today, we have an inshore, midshore and an offshore crab

fishery. In a lot of cases the same fishermen are participating in all

sectors of this fishery, both inshore most with inshore and midshore. But

the problem is and we have tragedy to show when we see a boat tied to the

wharf and it is a 65 footer or 50 footer, and when someone has to go out in

a 35-foot boat to harvest crab when they all have a bigger boat at the

wharf. Last year, we just saw it in Arnold's Cove with a crew, with a long

liner tied up at the wharf. They had to go out in a smaller boat and people

lost their lives.

This

is unfortunate; it is very unfortunate. I think all Members in the House of

Assembly that are familiar with this fishery I'm sure the minister is

this policy has to change. Our people are on the water every day and they

take their lives in their own hands. It's a hard fishery. The fishery is

done I spoke to fishermen the other night and they were telling me they

leaving at 12 o'clock tonight because there was a window there that the

winds are not going to be as high as what they are. They could get out in

three days and get back, so they went early because of the window.

Safety is a major issue in any fishery but in the crab fishery when

fishermen, harvesters, have boats tied up to the wharf that would make their

lives and make their health safer, and we have regulations in place that are

forcing them in smaller boats, it's a huge issue. It's a huge issue in my

district and I'm sure in most of the opposite Members' districts it is also

an issue in theirs.

Mr.

Speaker, the policy hasn't changed. The policy first came in so that we made

sure that the inshore fishery was taken care of with the crab and gave them

a quota. But today, you'll see most of the fishermen are involved and

harvesters are involved in the midshore, offshore and inshore.

it's time for this policy to change. I ask the Minister of Fisheries if he'd

get his federal counterparts, talk to them about it because what we saw in

Arnold's Cove last year I hope never happens again. When you see a large

vessel tied up at the wharf when they have to use a small vessel.

Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government

House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I move to Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Minister of Health and Community Services, for leave to

introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Hearing Aid Practitioners

Act, Bill 25, and I further move that the said bill be now read the first

time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded

by the hon. the Government House Leader that we shall have leave to

introduce Bill 25 and that the said bill be now read a first time.

it the pleasure of the House to introduce Bill 25?

All

in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Those against?

Carried.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce

a bill,

An Act To Amend The Hearing Aid Practitioners Act, carried. (Bill

25)

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend

The Hearing Aid Practitioners Act. (Bill 25)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been

read a first time.

When

shall the said bill be read a second time?

Now?

Tomorrow?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

Tomorrow.

motion, Bill 25 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government

House Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

From

the Order Paper I call Motion 1, the Budget Speech.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Signal Hill Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much

MR. SPEAKER:

I'm sorry, the previous

day the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works adjourned debate.

recognize the hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

MR. HAWKINS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's

certainly my pleasure to rise again today to speak with regard to the

budget. Before I get into making some of the remarks that I had planned to

make, Mr. Speaker, I'd just like to clarify a couple of points.

hon. Member across the floor mentioned in Question Period about privatizing

collective bargaining. I just want to make sure the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador are fully aware that we have no intention of privatizing.

you know, Mr. Speaker, it is not uncommon when we're in negotiations

previous governments have done it, governments throughout the country have

done it. We've engaged other opportunities with law firms to engage in the

discussions. That in no way says anything negative about the team we have.

We have an excellent team and we will certainly our talented team is in

place. We will be negotiating in a fair and an open manner as we move

forward.

The

other item, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to just bring attention to because I

know the hon. Members opposite are passionate about the tax increases and

levies. I know the Member opposite made mention that someone making $300,000

will be paying $900. I also wanted to point out to the Member opposite that

the person who's making $300,000 in this new taxation year will actually be

paying $9,900 more dollars than they did last year.

we sometimes forget there's actually a 3 per cent increase because we often

say those in the higher income are not paying anything. That's not true

because they are actually being taxed 3 per cent higher than they were last

year.

Madam Speaker, sometimes in Question Period we never get the ample amount of

time to really get into the details of some of the policy and some of the

changes that we make. My hon. Member opposite talked last time about the

Town of Grand Falls-Windsor and certainly the impact this budget had.

Madam Speaker, we are fully aware of that. As a matter of fact, MHA Dean and

I met with the entire council of the Town of Grand Falls-Windsor; actually,

we met probably for about two, maybe almost three hours. We went through the

budget, went through some of the measures that's there, explained what

happened and what measures we have to take.

Madam Speaker, while it's disappointing I'm disappointed too. I was the

mayor of Grand Falls-Windsor for six years and fought for having whatever

resources we could. I am disappointed with some of the measures we've had to

make. Obviously, very disappointed, but when we look at going forward,

looking at the financial mess we're in, obviously there were some tough,

tough choices that had to be made.

Not

one single one of us on this side of the House has any pride in what we've

had to do. I am relatively a compassionate person, Madam Speaker. I really

do care about the people in this province. I understand fully some of the

frustrations they're facing.

Madam Speaker, when I look at: What are our options? Where do we need to go?

We had to make some tough decisions. I know some of the Members on the other

side have been pontificating and standing and talking about how draconic

this budget is. I encourage them to take a look in the mirror and say to

themselves: What have I done to force this side of the House to make the

decisions we've had to make? I really encourage them to do that because the

decisions we've had to make are tough decisions.

The

Premier talked today about the fact that if we did nothing, if we continued

the way in which it was going, in five years every man, woman and child in

Newfoundland and Labrador would have a $54,000 per capita tax on the debt. I

mean, that is significant.

think, Madam Speaker, if I remember correctly, if that happened, the

Province of Quebec are looking at balanced budgets over the next number of

years, if that happened the people in the Province of Quebec at the same

time frame would be at $22,000 per man, woman and child. That's absolutely,

totally unsustainable and cannot happen. As a result of that, Madam Speaker,

we had to

AN HON. MEMBER:

They are second.

MR. HAWKINS:

and they are second. We

had to make some tough decisions in this budget.

Madam Speaker, I also wanted to reference the question that was asked with

regard to the 24-hour snow clearing. Again, that's a measure that we will be

putting in place next year. I want to assure the people of the Province of

Newfoundland and Labrador that safety is important to us. We know that in

the last number of years that actually the 24-hour snow clearing has been

put in place and what has happened is we have a dedicated crew that will be

there for the 24-hour snow clearing service.

Sometimes a dedicated crew, because of the conditions of the road, were not

required to be out clearing the roads. So, Madam Speaker, when we have the

24-hour snow clearing removed next year, we will make sure that we are

monitoring and we will make sure that the resources are in place so that

anytime between 10:00 p.m. and 4:30 a.m. if there is an impending storm, if

there is snow, we will make sure that our highways are cleared for the

people that are going to be using it.

Madam Speaker, it is not a case of us making those rash decisions without

giving any consideration to what will happen. We will monitor that very

carefully.

One

of the other points I wanted to make, Madam Speaker, is the fact that I know

the Members opposite have been talking about the fact that government has

not been engaging our federal partners and they refer to them as our federal

cousins. I could refer to them as our federal brothers because of the fact

that they have done

AN HON. MEMBER:

And sisters.

MR. HAWKINS:

And sisters because they have equality within their Cabinet. We have made

significant measures moving forward, Madam Speaker, to engage our federal

counterparts. Minister Sohi and I, on about four different occasions, have

discussed the infrastructure. We've talked about some of the infrastructure

criteria that were around the Building Canada Fund.

What

has happened through our discussions and through our conversations, the

minister has certainly listened to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador,

realizing that some of the criteria that were in place previously by the

previous federal government did not really apply to rural areas of the

province. The minister has been very understanding of that and has

subsequently sent a letter saying that some of the restrictions and the

criteria that were surrounding the New Building Canada Fund have been

lifted.

will now have more of an opportunity to do other work in other parts of the

province that previously would not qualify under the Building Canada Fund.

Madam Speaker, we have made a significant number of engagement, discussions

and success, I might add, with the federal government.

Madam Speaker, one of the other things that I wanted to reference is that

this government has taken a lot of pride in Labrador. One of the things that

we have done, I've worked with the federal government. In the previous

government they had a cap of $45 million on any work that was done on the

Trans-Labrador Highway.

What

we have done is we've worked with the federal government. They have removed

that cap and this year we have applied under the Building Canada Fund with

the Trans-Labrador Highway. We have requested $63 million, since that cap

has been removed, to work on the Trans-Labrador Highway, which we are going

to be doing. We're going to work on, particularly, Phase II and Phase III

work.

have really looked at Labrador as a very important area for us to maintain a

network of transportation, particularly with the highway. I know, Madam

Speaker, in your area as well in the South Coast, we have put a tremendous

amount of effort into trying to access money through the Building Canada

Fund for that. This year, we were able to maintain in our budget $62 million

for the provincial roadwork.

Now,

$62 million, if you put it in light of the request, I've had 1,500 requests

for road repairs. There are areas in this province that the road conditions

are deplorable absolutely deplorable. I understand that, Madam Speaker. I

get it, but I've got 1,500 requests for road repairs. I had my staff cost it

out and it's somewhere in the vicinity of about a billion dollars to do all

of the road requests that have come in.

Madam Speaker, that's going to be absolutely, totally impossible. The

Minister of Business, Tourism, Culture and Rural Development and myself met

with the mayor and deputy mayor from Conche just about a couple of hours

ago. I was glad to see them in the House today. I, too, had to talk to them

about the conditions of the road in that particular area. I understand fully

that there are some pressures in that area with the school closing and now

having to bus students over that road.

Madam Speaker, that's just one example of an area that we, and myself as a

minister and my staff, have to address. We have to look at opportunities and

ways in which we can accommodate these people that have all these requests.

Even though this budget is a difficult budget in some areas, I was able to

maintain $62 million in work for roads and I will continue to do that.

Madam Speaker, I want to just also say that this is the first year in a long

time that we've been able to get our tenders out for roadwork. The first

block of work that was announced back about a month ago, we are already

getting tenders back and we're already awarding work for that. This is

probably the earliest time we've been able to award tenders for roadwork. I

think that's a very positive step that we, as a government, have taken.

We've committed to that. We will continue to commit to that.

Madam Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is the fact that we do

have two blocks of funding out for roadwork now. Over the summer we're going

to continue to work with our partners and our stakeholders and we're going

to put together a five-year plan.

As I

said, Madam Speaker, we do have 1,500 requests that we've got to work

through. We're going to work through those requests using a screening model

whereby we are scoring to determine what would be the highest priority for

us. We will continue to work with that.

Over

the next several months, Madam Speaker, that will be a responsibility that I

will have to do. I need to look at all of these and determine how we want to

move forward in five years. It will position the government, it will

position us to be better prepared and to be able to avail of opportunities,

resources and bundling, and being able to do more work for the limited

amount of money we have.

think it's a great approach that we have taken. I'm looking forward to

working through that with our stakeholders to make sure we are able to

position ourselves to be able to get more work done when it comes to roads.

Madam Speaker, the other thing I wanted to reference is because I think

infrastructure is important to us this year this government, this budget,

is allocating $570 million in infrastructure spending. That includes some

schools and hospitals and repairs. This is significant. That's a half a

billion dollars that this government has committed to this year in our

infrastructure spending. That will create employment. It will create an

interest in people wanting to get out there and take advantage of the

opportunities that are in this particular area. So that's a significant

amount of money that we're doing.

Madam Speaker, one of the other areas that we want to look at is that this

is not localized. We are looking at a provincial-wide in the province and on

the Island and also, of course, in Labrador so we can get as much work as

possible out this summer. We want to get it out early to take advantage of

the construction season because we know in this province we have a very

short window when we look at construction. We want to get those tenders out

early and we want to make sure that people have an opportunity to work in

this province in this coming construction season.

Madam Speaker, there are a lot of good things, even though this is a tough

budget and we all understand that, we are fully aware of that

MADAM SPEAKER (Dempster):

Order, please!

remind the hon. Member his time has expired.

MR. HAWKINS:

but we will work to

make sure every area of the province is represented.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member

for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much,

Madam Speaker.

I'm

glad once again to have a chance to speak in the budget debate to set some

facts straight. The government side keeps telling us that we don't know the

facts. We even had the Minister of Finance stand here when she spoke, one of

the times that she has spoken, and said that they want to make sure that

people get the right facts and the correct facts and the real facts. That's

quite a statement. She also talks about the fact that the Members opposite,

meaning those of us on this side of the House, continue their habit of

telling half stories and half-truths.

That's quite a statement that the minister made. I'm glad to stand again

today and get some facts out there. I'd like to pick up on a couple of

points made by the Minister of Transportation and Works. First of all,

before going into one of the details, I want to pick up on language he used

and language which the other side is using constantly, and it's the

difficult budget. It sounds like something that was laid in their lap,

something that was given to them and they have to deal with this difficult

budget.

No,

the only ones who had something laid in their lap are the people of the

province. Because these people chose the budget, they created the budget the

way it is, and there were all kinds of choices they could have made. They

made the choices that they made. So it's not a difficult budget for them;

they're the ones who created the budget.

need to make that statement because I'm getting so tired of hearing the

other side of the House, the government, talking about this difficult budget

as if somebody brought this package, laid it on the Premier's desk and on

the desk of the Minister of Finance and said this is what you have to do.

That's not what it is. They made the choices. They're the ones who have

created what's in the budget, so I have to make that statement once again

because I'm getting tired of hearing the phrase difficult budget.

The

other thing I want to pick up on, the Minister of Transportation and Works

picked up on the fact that I was talking about the levy and others of us

over here were talking about the levy as well. However, he used, for

example, the whole thing of the top bracket. As we all know, the top tax

bracket, people earning over $175,700, that top bracket will be paying only

$900 for a levy while somebody earning $20,000 will be paying $300. We don't

have to do the math again. The ratio is very clear that it is most unfair

and unjust to the lower income earner.

The

Minister of Transportation and Works pointed out, reminding us in case we

didn't know, that the top bracket is having their rate increase between the

past year and the coming year by 1.5 per cent. That's true but so is the

person who is earning $20,000 having their rate increased too. Granted, it's

0.5 per cent but 0.5 per cent for them is a lot more than the 1.5 per cent

for the top bracket. So it is still unfair.

He's

trying to get us to point out to people that oh no, remember those poor

people with $300,000 he's the one who used it they've got to pay a lot

more this year because of their tax going up. I hope he's listening to what

he's saying because he's comparing that to the person earning $20,000 who

doesn't have a cent from cheque to cheque, not a cent from cheque to cheque,

having to come up with $300 more on top of everything else. On top of the

fact that their income tax has gone up, on top of the fact that our retail

tax is going up by 2 per cent, on top of the fact that the gas tax is going

up 16.5 per cent.

These are the realities and for them to protect high-earning people from

having to pay a little bit too much money in their definition is just

unconscionable. I can't believe it. It's the same way with the tax brackets

when you look at the comparison between us and Atlantic Canada. The Minister

of Finance has made reference to this. She keeps saying that we're ignoring

the fact that by 2017 the top bracket will be up to 18.3 per cent. She

insists on saying, in different ways, we are comparable to the rest of

Atlantic Canada.

Well, I invite the Minister of Finance to get out a document we got from her

department, a document which reminds us that in actual fact, right now at

this moment, the top bracket earners in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are

paying 21 per cent as the rate for their income tax, which at this point in

time really is different from ours. Because at this point in time, ours, for

the top bracket, is 15.3 per cent. We're only going to be putting that up to

18.3. So it is really quite not the whole truth.

The

Minister of Finance has said that we're saying half-truths. It's not the

whole truth when she says we're comparable to Atlantic Canada when the other

two provinces we most can compare with in Atlantic Canada are still paying

even in 2017, will be paying quite a bit more. It will be a 2.7 per cent

higher income tax rate than our top bracket.

wish they would tell the whole story. They say we're not telling it. What we

end up doing is telling the part of the story they're not telling. That's

what we have to do. I guess that's our job as Opposition. I'm happy to

accept that as my job as Opposition, but don't say when we do that, that

we're not telling the whole story. We're just adding the rest of the

information.

you know what? I don't even have to add it for the people of the province to

understand it because they're the ones who are saying it to me. The people

of the province are doing their mathematics.

Again, the Minister of Finance has made reference that she's going to put

this tool up on a website so people can figure it out. I've got news for

her: they've got it figured out.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS. MICHAEL:

They know how to add it

all up. They've added up the levy and the income tax and the increase in gas

which I bet is not going to be on her website and every single expense

they're going to have to pay. The fees they're going to have to pay.

That's why people who are doing the math middle-income people who are

doing the math are telling us they're going to have to pay between $3,000

and $6,000 more a year. They're not going to be able to do it. It's an

insult. What an insult to the people of the province to say that you have

this tool so you can figure it out. They've got it figured out.

One

of the hundreds of emails one I actually got today. I have my binder here;

there's another binder being started. One of my emails today said for me to

tell the government that if anybody knows how to figure out how much money

they have to spend and how much more they might have to spend, it is lower

income people because they spend their time counting every cent they spend,

and they are counting the cents they don't have for things they need. I just

really am flabbergasted by what I hear from the government side of this

House.

Let

me talk a bit more about facts. Let's look at the whole issue of the closing

of libraries. I can't believe this government just seems to think there's

nothing to it. I'm absolutely shocked they think that way.

The

Minister of Education today stood in the media explaining in case they

didn't understand only some of them are closing this year and 25 more will

close next year. Just in case they didn't understand that and we didn't pick

up on it. That was an insult as well.

all know there's two blocks. That one group is going to be going this year

and another group next year. The bottom line is 54 libraries in our rural

communities are being closed. That's the bottom line.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MS. MICHAEL:

That's the part they

don't want to hear said.

have an email from somebody from the District of Fogo Island Cape Freels.

He says there are 40 electoral districts in Newfoundland and Labrador and

there were 54 libraries closed in the province. Our district, Fogo Island

Cape Freels has Centreville, Change Islands, Fogo, Greenspond, Hare Bay,

Lumsden and Musgrave Harbour seven of the 54 libraries. One district

representing less than 2.5 per cent of the province is getting just shy of

13 per cent of the cuts. Now where is the justice in that?

goes on and points out something that should be obvious to this government,

although they don't seem to know what an island means. Two of those

libraries are on separate islands that had their ferry shut down most of

this past year with over an hour to another library, plus two-hour waits for

ferries. So where's the 30 minutes in between getting from their community

to a library.

doesn't seem to matter because it's only 15 per cent of the population that

isn't 30 minutes away. I mean this blows my mind, as was pointed out

actually by the mayor from Lourdes. He points out something extremely

significant. He said, while the government is maintaining more than 85 per

cent of residents who are within a 30-minute drive to the nearest library,

it's only because the bulk of the population in this province is on the

Avalon Peninsula. That's the only reason.

is so disingenuous for them to be pointing this 30 minutes out. I'll let my

colleague for Bell Island, when he gets up, say this himself. I also want to

point out Bell Island may look like it's 30 minutes away, but by the time

you sit in the lineup of the ferry, get down there, line up and you really

have to get down early to line up then do your ferry run you're talking

more than 30 minutes. That's one that's just outside of St. John's. That's

the reality.

They

continue talking about us not knowing what we're talking about and telling

people they don't know the facts. The people on the Port au Port Peninsula

know the facts. They have no library. This is disgraceful. The MHAs from the

government side out there know it's disgraceful and they're starting to say

it. I can't believe this government doesn't get the implication.

The

Minister of Education today, when speaking to the media, made comments that

were very, very interesting. He talks about the libraries that are in the

schools. For example, in Port au Port the library is in the school. He says

they're going to remain open with school board resources and teachers, not

just provincial libraries board employees.

What

is he doing? The Minister of Education in that statement to the media today

is downloading the cost of keeping the library open onto the backs of the

community. Let's look at it. He's saying with school board resources and

teachers. So the teachers now in Port au Port, they can't rely on the fact

that the community library because it's not a school library; it's a

community library is in their building.

They're going to be expected now, on top of all the other issues that they

have to deal with, on top of full-day kindergarten which they didn't have

before, on top of, I would suspect, multigrade classes, on top of those

classes having children with specialities in the classroom and trying to

make an inclusive classroom on top of that they're now going to have to

run the library. This is disgraceful. This downloading is absolutely

disgraceful.

This

is another point that the mayor of Port au Port takes up. He points out the

fact that the government is downloading. He says in relation to the town

council or local service district taking up the slack, neither body is in a

financial position to do anything about it. That's the reality.

Those people sitting opposite me, the majority of them are in rural

communities. Surely they know the limits that are on the finances of the

municipalities. We have former mayors sitting across from me right now,

several of them. They know the difficulties for a town council to maintain

itself. So when the Mayor of Port au Port says that they do not have the

fiscal capacity, he knows what he is talking about. They don't.

Here

we have this government downloading, number one, on municipalities,

downloading on the schools where there are libraries in schools, downloading

on volunteers because that comes out on what they're saying as well, that

there are other groups around who can help out. When are they going to

understand that there is more to this than meets the eye?

library is a service in the community with people in the library who have

the skills and the expertise and the knowledge to work with those who come

to the library. Whether those who come to the library are children from the

school that the library may be in or from the community in general, because

the library is a separate building as it is in Greenspond, for example.

Whether it's the children, whether it's seniors who are coming and may be

want to go on a computer, want to do some searching for information, want to

do some their own research on computers but don't know how to use them, the

librarian is there to help. Whether it's anybody from the community who

comes in and whatever it is that they want, the librarian is a skilled

person.

This

is what this government seems to be ignoring. So to think oh well, some

committee in the community can open the door, because that's all it will be,

open the door and let people come in, that is not acceptable. The library is

a source of information. The library is a source of research for people who

want to do research. The library as well, which doesn't seem to mean a thing

to anybody on the other side of the House it certainly doesn't mean

anything to the Minister of Education; he's totally ignoring it. The library

is a community centre.

It's

a place where people in the community gather. It's a place where the seniors

come and they just don't come as individuals, they come and they have their

book clubs, for example. This is the other thing about downloading. The

government has put quite a number of things on the website. That didn't

start with this government. That's been something that's been going on for a

while; it is part of our modernization. So you can go on the website and you

can get your driver's licence. You can go on the website and you can get

your car registered every year, et cetera.

The

interesting thing is when you go on the website, you actually get a little

break because the fee is lower than if you turned up in an office somewhere.

But when you close down these 54 libraries, if there are people who have

been going on and doing their registrations and whatever it may be, and

paying fees to government, not only are they now going to have to travel a

distance, paying 16.5 cents more a litre of gas, not only are they going to

have to do that but when they get to the other place, if there is no library

around them and they have to go into a government office, they will pay more

to get their driver's licence. They will pay more to register their car, on

top of having to pay for extra money, an awful lot of extra money to drive.

these are some the realities. These are some of the facts. These are some of

the things which the people on the other side of the House say are fear

mongering to talk about. No, these are realities. This is the truth. So when

are they going to deal with it?

I'm

still in a state of shock. I cannot believe I'm hoping I'm going to wake

up and find out that this is not happening. And I hoped on one level, I knew

on another, but I hoped on one level that the Minister of Education was

going to say good news, we've realized we can't do this.

How

can they not listen to the mayors? How can they not listen to the seniors

who are speaking out? How can they not listen to the schools that are

speaking out? How can they insist that what they're doing is okay and

they're gutting the communities? You take a place like Greenspond. It's

losing its school, and I think that was sort of inevitable, but both the

school and the library are very important centres in Greenspond. So now with

one fell swoop, they're losing their school and they're losing their

library. That's happening in more than one place. So this is completely

unacceptable.

invite the government over there, if they really want to face the facts,

realize that their budget as it stands is only part of the story, look at

the impact of that budget and that they can't take one piece of the budget

like the levy and forget everything else that's also being laid on the backs

of the people.

This

is the reality. These are the facts. I will continue pointing out these

facts. I know my colleague for St. John's Centre will continue pointing out

these facts. I'm sure the Official Opposition will. As long as we continue

to have people sending us their information, we'll continue bringing that

information in here to the House to make this government at least force

them to listen to listen to some of the facts.

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much,

Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER:

I remind the hon.

Member her time has expired.

MR. KENT:

A point of order, Madam

Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I'm asking for leave of the House. I must apologize; we'd

like to revert on Orders of the Day to Notices of Motion so that I can

present the motion that will be debated for Private Members' Day on

Wednesday. I apologize to the House for the oversight earlier.

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Does

the hon. Member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER:

Leave.

MADAM SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member

for Mount Pearl North on notices of motion.

MR. KENT:

I thank hon. Members for

their co-operation.

give notice that I will move the following private Member's resolution:

IT RESOLVED that this hon. House supports the introduction of legislation

for the recall of elected Members of the House of Assembly, similar in

principle to the legislation in effect in British Columbia where a

registered voter can petition to remove from office the Member of the House

of Assembly from that voters district, provided the voter collects

signatures for more than established percentage of voters eligible to sign

the petition in that electoral district.

That

motion will be seconded by the Member for Cape St. Francis.

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Member for Ferryland.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Madam

Speaker.

Pursuant to Standing Order 63, the private Member's resolution just entered

by the Member for Mount Pearl North is the one that we'll be debating on

Wednesday.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

The

hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. EDMUNDS:

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I'm

glad to be able to stand in my place today and speak to this year's budget.

I have to point out, Madam Speaker, that we all realize this is a tough

budget. Every district in this province is impacted by this budget.

think we should step back and ask why are we here, Madam Speaker. A wise man

once told me that it is important to know where you come from to know where

you're going. The way we go as the new government, unfortunately, has been

determined by the former administration, in excess of a $2 billion deficit,

threatened credit ratings, mismanaged megaprojects, all of which has brought

this wonderful province to its knees.

The

irony in all this, Madam Speaker, is that the former administration came

through 12 years with the most revenue that this province ever experienced;

I believe in the vicinity of $25 billion, if I remember correctly. The

Leader of the Opposition in his budget address stated that he realizes that

hundreds of millions of dollars are needed for infrastructure and that from

time to time it has to be deferred.

The

former administration, even with its billions of dollars in revenue deferred

infrastructure. Whether it be for financial reasons or political reasons, we

are left to wonder.

The

Member for Ferryland, in his budget address stated he realizes or

understands that projects must be deferred. The Official Opposition, most

have been in government and they realize or they know what it is like to

defer projects. As a matter of fact, the Leader of the Opposition stated he

knows what it's like when requests come in and no is the answer that has to

be given.

Madam Speaker, this deficit that we're here to address is our problem, but

it's not our fault. The Official Opposition does not want to accept any

responsibility and they have taken great measures to try and avoid being

held responsible. Madam Speaker, they don't get off the hook that easy.

Whether they like it or not, we're in this together. The Opposition are in

it because they caused it and we are in it because it's our job now to fix

it.

Madam Speaker, we, as with all governments, would love to start with a clean

slate but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. The first order of our

administration is to get the provincial finances I state and should remind

everyone that we inherited back to a level where we can actually start

over. In order to fix this mess that they handed us, we have to make tough

choices and these choices affect all of us who live here in this great

province.

Madam Speaker, no government in history wants to deliver a budget like we

had to. In 2006, the former administration I'm sure did not want to deliver

the budget they brought in back then. When you compare what we have had to

do, we're pretty much back to where we were in 2006. Having said that, Madam

Speaker, we're essentially back to where we started.

general, Madam Speaker, as a province we've been in this situation before.

The difference this time around is we don't have the billions of dollars in

royalties that the previous administration had. We have to generate revenue

through harsh reality to stave off the problems that we have been left with.

We must focus on our goal. We must rebuild for a stronger future.

Madam Speaker, we managed to shrink the deficit by one-third. So imagine

what we could have done if we had the royalties that the former

administration had throughout the last 12 years. It is through the guidance

of our Premier and the Minister of Finance that we begin to weather this

harsh reality and get our province through it. We will, because we simply

don't have any choice.

the Minister of Finance began the difficult task of finding out the reality

of the province's financial situation, only then did she see a different

reality than what we were told by the previous administration. The Premier

had asked prior to the election for the correct numbers and did not get

them. So the reality only came out after the election. Officials in the

Finance department were concerned and worried about the downturn in our

economy. They were concerned and worried a long time before the election.

Madam Speaker, when you get information that is not correct and hidden away,

it impacts the decisions you have to make. When you get the right

information it changes your plans. This happens in every situation in our

lives and we must adjust our plans accordingly. This is exactly what

happened leading up to the delivery of this year's budget.

is an enormous task we have been handed, Madam Speaker. The party is over

and it's now our job to clean up the mess. The process is tough on

everybody. When our provincial credit rating is compromised and the taxation

plan stands to be much more severe than it is now with bonding agencies

asking us to cut further. Madam Speaker, drastic problems call for drastic

measures.

Again, I don't deny this budget is tough. I feel the impacts in my district.

Every one of us in this hon. House has certainly felt the impacts. We

certainly look forward to working towards getting this huge deficit under

control so we can go back to our districts with some removal of some of the

tough issues we've had to face.

Drastic measures have to be taken in order to stave off disaster. The

difference between this government and the previous administration is that

we don't have $25 billion to work with. Given the magnitude of the deficit,

it is obvious the former administration not only blew $25 billion in

revenue, but they blew an extra $2 billon in revenue they didn't have. This

is part of the problem we have to address. Address it we will, Madam

Speaker.

hard as this task is on all of us right now, as I said earlier, we've

actually cut the deficit by one-third. The sooner we can get past this

deficit a deficit we inherited the sooner we can get our great province

back on track. If we go back through the years, tough budgets have had to be

tabled on both sides of this hon. House. We, as a government, have to make

tough choices, as did previous administrations, in order to work towards

earning our existence as a province. The last time it was the former

administration that tabled a tough budget. This was in 2006. So given our

inherited debt in 2016, we are forced to take tough measures also.

The

economy has experienced a world-wide downturn and it has affected every one

of us in this province. The economy has reached levels that have nowhere to

go but up. Having reduced enormous debt that the previous administration

handed us, we have managed to bring the deficit to a level which, if left

unchecked, would have reached $2.7 billion.

Madam Speaker, I hope, as with all of us in Newfoundland and Labrador, to

come to a point where we no longer depend on the price of oil or other

commodities to sustain our existence. The previous administration has

clearly shown that is not the right way to go on running the affairs of our

great province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member

for Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

It's

a pleasure to get up again and speak about the budget. Like I said last

time, it's not so much I'm happy to speak about the budget, but it's

important for us to get up and share our views on the budget for the people

that we represent in our districts because they ask us on a daily basis to

speak up for them. It's like I said before, it's what we're elected to do.

It's what I've committed to do for the people in my district, and I will

continue to do that, Madam Speaker.

have various areas I can go on the budget but I guess the first one, the

latest one coming up now, is the schools. I guess the libraries closing was

a separate one from the schools, but you have multi-grade teaching, class

size increased, full-day kindergarten. It's not so much we were in favour

of full-day kindergarten. But is this the best time to spend the cost of

full-day kindergarten when I don't know if we're really prepared in our

schools? I know I have issues up in my district, and I actually spoke to the

minister on it.

Parents are really concerned of 28 kids going into a class that was really

only designed for 14. Team teaching, that's creating a lot of stress on a

lot of families. Madam Speaker, I have emails that show the majority of

them are from young families who have huge concerns with full-day

kindergarten. I've told them I'd advocate for them.

Recently in a local paper up there, I was asked a question on it as well.

It's not a matter of saying it's terrible about full-day kindergarten

because we believe in it; it's just that we believe that there is a better

way it could be implemented at a more appropriate time when all the

resources are in place. People had enough notice; a one-year delay is not

going to be the end of the world.

You

are looking at September now, we're getting closer to the drop-dead date

and, unfortunately, it looks like it's probably going to happen. Team

teaching in our schools when you're looking in a small classroom I know my

children went to these classrooms when there was 13, 14 kids for half a day

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. PETTEN:

They are making a lot of

noise over there, Madam Speaker.

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. PETTEN:

Those classrooms are

small rooms and I can attest to that. Actually I went up and read at a

literacy week reading and I spoke to a lot of parents, and there were

teachers there. They are really saying we're maxed out now, how are we going

to put these extra I'm not sure how many kids there is going to be when

you double class size. You are looking at probably an extra 40 or 50

kindergarten students at least a day into a room that's designed for 14.

I've

had a lot of representation actually ironically, in my area, I think St.

Edward's Elementary poses one of the biggest challenges to parents

especially. They strongly feel and I know a lot of the educators feel

that the school is not the appropriate size to house full-day kindergarten.

That's something that I know it's a budgetary item and it's a spending item,

but it's included in the budget and it's causing a lot of on top of all

the other things in the budget it's causing a lot of stress on parents.

They've made their case to me loud and clear. I promised I would bring it to

the floor of the House of Assembly which I'm doing now, Madam Speaker.

look at the budget; I remember a few years ago my former boss, we'll say, or

former minister, Terry French, used to always say we can't go death by a

thousand cuts. When you do a budget, you're faced with a few tough

decisions. I heard him say it so often. It was like yeah, fine, you have to

cut, but do you cut every little thing, do you affect little person every

person, everything, every program where they make some big substantial cuts,

lessen the blow to the mass and get it done that way. It's a lot of truth.

People can argue on both sides of it.

you look at 24-hour snow clearing, we're saving $1.9 million of a budget of

$8-plus billion. Madam Speaker, $1.9 million and people from Bull Arm were

irate last week on the radio. This will be a normal thing next winter. So as

I pointed out to the Minister of Transportation, this will be a regular

occurrence.

worked in that department. When you have a dusting of snow the phone starts

ringing, and they don't stop ringing until the spring comes, which usually

doesn't happen until June or July. For $1.9 million, to be cutting the

service like that, Members on the government side when in Opposition lobbied

for 24-hour snow clearing in their communities. I remember, I was in

Transportation last year and I used to hear so I didn't blame them. I

thought that we should have had more 24-hour snow clearing. I really believe

that

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER:

The Minister of

Justice wanted it.

MR. PETTEN:

Yes, that's right. The

Minister of Justice lobbied. I believe the 24-hour snow clearing is very

important. You're saving $1.9 million and I heard the people on the radio

and I've talked to people actually. I have family that works out in Long

Harbour and that. They have concerns because they're leaving to go to work

at 4 in the morning, and our plows will not hit the road until 5 o'clock,

5:30.

we were saving $19 million or $100 million I'd say, well b'y, it's a tough

decision. It's all about choices, but $1.9 million, I can hardly justify

that's a rational reason to do something that's going to put people like I

said before, it's going to put people's lives in danger. It's pittance to

the big scheme of things. It's death by a thousand cuts.

You're looking at libraries closing. I believe we're saving I might be

correct on this a million dollars. Look at a million dollars a year and

look at the grief and strain that's put on a lot of these small communities.

My community of CBS is a larger community and it won't have such a

detrimental effect. There are plans in place for a regional library there

and right now it's not on the block.

When

you listen to Fogo, you listened to my colleague for Conception Bay East

Bell Island, they're islands and we're closing down these little small

libraries, we're saving $1 million. All you have to do is flick the radio on

and listen, read the emails that are coming in and read the paper. The

Minister of Education I'm sure has heard it loud and clear. But again, I

understand trying to change things and do things better and regionalize. I'm

not against any of that, but again we're saving $1 million.

we've cut 24-hour snow clearing out that a lot of people will I anticipate

next winter is going to be very interesting how that's perceived. We're

cutting out the libraries. Now we've saved $2.9 million and we're faced with

a $2 billion deficit. Again, it's death by a thousand cuts.

You

can go on down the road. In Question Period, my colleague mentioned about

teacher cuts. The Minister of Education pointed out that the former

government cut 70-something positions. We're looking at 200-and-some-odd

positions, am I right? It's a far cry it is triple the amount. Teachers

have been emailing me in my district, constituents, they're really

concerned. I'm not a teacher. I can listen to their rationale. I watched the

other night the president of the teachers union was on and he voiced his

concerns, I thought, very candidly. He articulated it well. Those are the

people that know. They live and breathe this stuff and it's a huge concern.

You're cutting teaching positions. You're doing multi-grade teaching, which

I haven't got a clue how that is going to ever work out. You have full-day

kindergarten coming in. We're going to implement some positions along the

way to offset some of the losses.

Again, I'll go back to what are we really saving here. I don't know if we're

saving anything. I got emails and I'm going to read some of the emails out,

two of them. I think it's important actually because some of them I thought

were very to the point. There's one thing I'd also like to point out. For

the last number of years after living here we all lived here all our lives

a lot of people said people have a lot of confidence. They had a bounce in

their step. They were spending money. They were making investments. They

felt a sense of hope. They were resettling. People were moving back.

don't think there is any Member in this House that can honestly deny that

wasn't happening. The place was vibrant. Everything was moving. I'd be up in

Goose Bay, up in Labrador, and the place was alive. I had the fortune of

travelling a lot throughout the province and I saw a lot of small

communities. They were very alive and people were looking at themselves

differently. We finally found our way. It was nice to see. We all lived here

most of our lives. We went to tough times.

don't see that any more, Madam Speaker. As a matter of fact, I find the

bounce in people's steps is not what it was. I mean consumer confidence

we're only in the early stages of this budget. It is not really fully

implemented, of course, until we have the vote. People's consume confidence

is down.

my district I have a lot of seniors but I also have a lot of contractors,

home builders. I know some quite well and their business is after

plummeting. They will only do turnkeys. They will not build anything in

advance of possible sales. One guy is stuck with four or five homes now.

He's wondering how he's going to do it.

top of everything with the extra costs in this budget, the housing market is

slowing down big time. Now it's still going but it's on the fear of the

unknown. A lot of the possible repercussions of the budget may not happen

for another year, effect the economy, but people's confidence is now is

shattered. Now they're pulling back. People's home spending, they are

cancelling their vacations.

Our

infamous Open Line host said

shortly after him and his wife Paddy Daly said him