Alberta Hansard — 21 April 2005, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 26, Session 1)

20050421

Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 945 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:30 p.m. Date: 05/04/21 [The Speaker in the chair] head: Prayers The Speaker: Good afternoon. Welcome. Let us pray. As we conclude for this week our work in this Assembly, we renew our energies with thanks so that we may continue our work with the people in the constituencies we repre- sent. Amen. Please be seated. head: Introduction of Visitors Mrs. McClellan: Mr.

Speaker, the Alberta Order of Excellence is the highest honour that the province can bestow upon a citizen, and today it’s my honour to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a distinguished group of Albertans seated in your gallery. They represent the 2004 inductees. I would ask yours and the House’s indulgence to just say a few words about each of these distinguished people because their contributions to our province have been considerable. I’ll ask them to stand as I call out their names. Ann McCaig is a dedicated fundraiser and advocate for a wide range of Alberta organizations.

Her focus has largely been on education and children. Over the years she has lent her tremendous energy and support to organizations such as the Alberta Children’s hospital, the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre, the Banff Centre, and the University of Calgary. Eric Newell is someone members will know as a leader in the development of Alberta’s oil sands. Eric served as president, CEO, and chairman of the board of Syncrude before retiring in 2003. He is now chancellor of the University of Alberta.

In addition to his work with postsecondary education, Eric continues to provide community leadership in areas such as workforce development, the aboriginal community, and the environment. Bryan Perkins is a farmer who represents the best of Alberta’s pioneering and entrepreneurial traditions. Bryan’s innovative approach to his own operation near Wainwright has grown into a new model of farming that’s benefiting hundreds of families across the province. Over the years Bryan has also made significant contributions to industry boards and organizations.

John and Barbara Poole are dedicated supporters of a wide range of social, educational, cultural, and environmental causes across Alberta and Canada. While a large portion of their work is done anonymously and without fanfare, I can tell members that there aren’t many arts or postsecondary institutions in this province that haven’t benefited from their support. Mr. Speaker, accompanying these distinguished guests are members of the Alberta Order of Excellence Council. I would introduce council chair Dr.

Bob Westbury, council members Bunny Ferguson of Edmonton, Jack Gorr of Three Hills, Harley Hotchkiss of Calgary, and Harold Storlien of Medicine Hat. Mr. Speaker, I would ask all members to give these distinguished visitors a hearty welcome. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m pleased to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly two very distinguished and respected Albertans, Dr. Sandy Mactaggart, chancellor emeritus of the University of Alberta, and his wife, Mrs. Cécile Mactaggart.

The Mactaggarts are no strangers to members of this Assembly. They are leading Edmonton businesspeople and philanthropists. Sandy is an officer of the Order of Canada and a member of the Alberta Order of Excellence. The Mactaggarts are respected and admired throughout this city, across this province, and throughout Canada not only for their impressive and inspirational busin ess success with Maclab Enter- prises but, more importantly, for their vast charitable and philan- thropic efforts, that have improved this community and our province in so many ways.

Yesterday the Mactaggarts took their charitable efforts one giant step further with an impressive $37 million donation of rare Chinese artifacts and collectibles to the University of Alberta. [applause] Mr. Speaker, I can only then thank the House for the way in which they’ve warmly welcomed our respected guests. head: Introduction of Guests The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs. Mr. Renner: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you well know and as do all members of the House know, this Assembly works in partnership with municipal elected leaders throughout the province.

Looking up into the members’ gallery this afternoon, I’m very pleased to see that Mr. Bob Hawkesworth, president of the Alberta Urban Municipali- ties Association, AUMA, and his executive, who have been visiting with ministers throughout the Legislature Building over the past few days, have joined us for question period today. I would like to introduce Mr. Hawkesworth, who is a former MLA of this Assem- bly, and also as part of the delegation another former MLA, Mr. Ed Gibbons, councillor for the city of Edmonton, as well as all the other members of the executive of AUMA.

I’d ask all members to join me in welcoming them. I’d ask them to stand and receive the traditional recognition of the House. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Mr. Horner: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. On your behalf I would like to introduce to you and through you 20 grade 8 students from Jarvie school, which is located in the Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock constituency. They are accompanied this afternoon by teachers Len Seatter and Mrs.

Debra Jackson and parent helpers Colleen Chapotelle and Robert Cardinal, who is the brother of our distin- guished Minister of Human Resources and Employment. Among the students is Alissa Cardinal, niece of the hon. minister. They are seated in the public gallery this afternoon. I would ask them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of this Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of International and Intergovern- mental Relations. Mr. Stelmach: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly four very special guests seated in the members’ gallery.

They’re members of the Department of International and Intergovernmental Relations. I would ask them to rise as I call their names: Ms Heather Edwards, Ms Kelly O’Donnell, Mrs. Holly Solinski, and Mr. Bin Lau. I’d ask this Assembly to give them a traditional warm welcome. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Human Resources and Employ- ment.

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005946 Mr. Cardinal: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It’s my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to the members of the Assembly two Human Resources and Employment department communication staff who are seated in the members’ gallery this afternoon. Fiona Wiseman and Jason Maloney are both new to Human Resources and Employment and are here to observe question period. I’d like them to rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Drayton Valley-Calmar. Rev. Abbott: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is an honour and a privilege for me to rise and introduce to you and through you to all members 56 of Alberta’s brightest and best students from Calmar school. These students are Mrs. Biddell’s and Mrs. Wilson’s grade 5 and 6 classes. Their guide today is Natalie Wilson, a former page of the Legislative Assembly and Mrs. Wilson’s daughter. The parent helpers with this large group are Mrs. Karen Stepanko, Mrs. Crystal Fandrick, Mrs. Laurie Workun, Mrs. Pat Carson-Handley, Mrs. Michelle Erickson, and Mrs. Denschikoff. I would ask them all to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung. 1:40 Mr. Elsalhy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I am really honoured to be welcoming two of my constituents from Edmonton-McClung who are seated in your gallery, Michael and Mary-Louise Mitchell, who are the parents of Chelsea Mitchell, who is an Assembly page with us and one of the most energetic and most helpful pages in this Assembly. They live in an area of Edmonton-McClung called Rio Terrace.

It’s an area in which I door knocked very heavily during the campaign, but in case I missed you, I would really like to invite you to visit me at the constituency office. If we don’t talk about concerns or issues or suggestions, we can spend half an hour talking about Chelsea and how wonderful she is. I would invite them to stand up, and I would invite the hon. members to join me in welcoming them. The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert. Mr. Flaherty: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly the Sir George Simpson grade 6, 30 wonderful students, and their teacher, Lindsey Anderson, and helpers or volunteers Annie Gouldson and Charlene Marklund. Would they please rise and r eceive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview. Mr. Martin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two guests to introduce today. The first is Joanne Jarvis, who currently works as a guard at the Bashaw RCMP detachment and is involved with the Lutheran local council as a choir director for ecumenical services.

She is accompanied today by Jim Graves, who ran for the NDP in the riding of Lacombe-Ponoka in the previous election. I would ask that Joanne and Jim rise and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. Dr. Pannu: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly a very well-liked and successful student leader, Paul Zits.

Paul is the outgoing president of the Grant MacEwan College students’ union here in Edmonton and has served as the chair of Alberta College and Technical Institute Students’ Executive Council, known as ACTISEC. His continuing efforts to promote a more accessible and affordable system of postsecondary education is commendable and much appreciated. I’ll ask now for Paul to rise and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It’s my pleasure today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly Hank and Sharon Hoekstra from my constituency of Edmonton-Whitemud. They’re the proud parents of Elaine Hoekstra, one of our very talented and wonderful pages. Sharon is a kindergarten teacher at Earl Buxton elementary school, a great elementary school that also happens to be located in my constituency. She’s been teaching for 30 years. Hank retired this past fall from nearly 30 years of service at the University of Alberta’s instructional resource services centre. Mr.

Speaker, they’re seated in your gallery, and I’d ask that they please stand and receive the traditional warm welcome and thank you from our House. Mrs. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, it’s always an honour to introduce a school class, and, again, today I have the honour of introducing to you and through you to members of the Assembly students and teachers and parent helpers from Morrin school. Morrin is located just north of Drumheller. This group has as its accompanying teachers and leaders Bev Deschenes, Mr. Harvey Saltys, Hiruki Kanazawa, Mrs. Dawn Herd, Mr. and Mrs. Jim Richm ond, Mrs.

Susan Doyle, and Mauricio Rincón. I would ask, if they are in the Assembly, in the public gallery perhaps, to rise and receive the very warm welcome of this Assembly. head: Ministerial Statements The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Advanced Education. Mactaggart Art Collection Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today and have the honour and privilege of acknowledging and celebrating the generous and impressive donation of rare Chinese artifacts to the University of Alberta announced yesterday by Sandy and Cécile Mactaggart, a donation that will serve as the foundation for the university’s new centre for Chinese studies. Over the years the Mactaggart family has demonstrated in countless ways their commitment to th is city and to this province. They are among Edmonton’s leading business success stories and have used that success to make their community a better place in so many ways.

Yesterday they demonstrated their immense generosity and vision once again by donating a rare collection of Chinese art and artifacts to the University of Alberta, a donation which has been valued at over $37 million and comprises the largest private donation to the University of Alberta in its history. The collection includes over 700 items of east Asian art, textiles, and costumes. It will be housed in the University of Alberta’s museum collections and will be named the Mactaggart Art Collec- tion.

The collection will provide the basis for the university’s new centre for Chinese studies, which will house the world renowned expertise on Chinese culture and history. Members will recall that in the Speech from the Throne the new access to the future fund is intended to s upport innovation and

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 947 excellence in postsecondary education, and the creation of this new centre for Chinese studies at the University of Alberta was specifi- cally referenced in anticipation of this gift. We had the honour of having Mr. Mactaggart and his daughter Fiona here on the floor of the Legislature when the Speech from the Throne was read.

In fact, it is fair to say that the promise of the access to the future fund played a role in ensuring that this collection, unique in North America and courted seriously by institutions in Toronto, New York, San Francisco, and elsewhere, remains right here in Edmonton, in Alberta. This new landmark institute will help to promote greater under- standing of the culture, language, and history of China, one of the world’s largest and growing economies and a country with which Alberta has long enjoyed a special economic and cultural relation- ship.

The centre will anchor current initiatives between the Univer- sity of Alberta and China and take those initiatives even further. It will serve as an excellent means of strengthening academic research, business, and cultural ties between Alberta and China. It will also be a means for Albertans to learn more about China and to connect with Chinese people both here at home and abroad.

Given the increasing importance of international connections in the global economy and increasing importance that China is playing in that global economy, an economic opportunity, I can tell you, that is recognized in our government’s new 20-year strategic plan, this centre for Chinese cultural studies will be a most valuable and strategic addition to Alberta’s postsecondary system and to Alberta itself. Mr.

Speaker, the Mactaggarts have been strong visionary advocates for this new centre for Chinese studies, and they’ve backed up that vision with a donation which will go down in history as one of the most generous and, I believe, meaningful donations ever made to a postsecondary institution.

The Mactaggarts and the University of Alberta – and I might say that the chancellor of the University of Alberta, Eric Newell, has joined the Mactaggarts today as he also joined the Alberta Order of Excellence inductees – and all of those involved in the planning and development of the centre for Chinese studies deserve to be commended for their vision and innovation. In the years ahead it will undoubtedly be seen as one of the world’s best, if not the best, Chinese cultural institutes outside of China itself. Mr.

Speaker, once again, may we thank the Mactaggarts for their visionary contribution to this province of ours. [applause] The Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As with the Minister of Advanced Education, it is my great honour today to rise to acknowl- edge and celebrate the largest single donation to the University of Alberta in its entire history. The Mactaggart family’s unprecedented donation of a $37 million Chinese art collection is really a priceless gift to the people of our province.

This collection is one of the finest in North America and includes paintings, calligraphy, scrolls, and silk robes. The collection will form the foundation of the univer- sity’s new centre for Chinese studies. This exciting initiative will be the most impressive Chinese learning centre in Canada. The students, faculty, and community will benefit enormously from this first-rate facility. The centre will bring researchers from all over the world to study the Mactaggart collection’s unique items. I’d like to commend and recognize the family responsible for this extraordinary gift.

Sandy Mactaggart was 11 years old when he was shipped to Canada as an evacuee during the Second World War. He went on to graduate cum laude from the Harvard Business School before coming to Edmonton in 1952 with his business partner the late Jean de La Bruyère. 1:50 The company they established, Maclab Enterprises Ltd., has contributed enormously to the landscape of this city, and it’s founder, Sandy Mactaggart, has always been a triumphant supporter of postsecondary education, as has his accomplished and always- elegant wife, Cécile.

From 1983 to 1994 he served on the University of Alberta board of governors and chaired the university’s real estate advisory committee. He went on to donate the 257-acre Mactaggart nature sanctuary to the U of A and the city of Edmonton. Then in 1990 Mr. Mactaggart held the respected position of university chancellor for four years. For countless reasons Sandy Mactaggart was inducted as an officer of the Order of Canada in 1997 and into the Alberta Order of Excellence in 1998. Cécile and Sandy Mactaggart along with their family have shown true vision in this unpr ecedented donation.

They have recognized that our society’s most important asset is its students. By contribut- ing this selfless gift, they continue to make the University of Alberta a better place. My thanks and the thanks of all MLAs to them. The Speaker: I have received notification: the hon. Member for Cardston-Taber-Warner would like to participate. Unanimous consent would have to be given. [Unanimous consent granted] The Speaker: The hon. Member for Cardston-Taber-Warner. Mr. Hinman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It would be amiss to not be able to stand up and congratulate the Mactaggarts for this wonderful gift to the province and to the University of Alberta. It’s a wonder- ful way to start off our centennial celebrations with such a gift to go into the next century, and philanthropists in the past have made a great part of Alberta. I’m grateful also, as all MLAs are, for such a wonderful gift and hope that that will help us as we go forward and to continue to trade and to work with the Chinese government and to continue to work and to make our world a better place. I’d like to thank them also.

Thank you. head: Oral Question Period The Speaker: First Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Securities Commission Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Finance has called in the Auditor General to, in her words, dispel concerns about the Alberta Securities Commission. We don’t need the Auditor General to dispel concerns as if this were simply a misunderstand- ing. We need someone who will get to the bottom of these prob- lems. My questions are to the Minister of Finance.

Given that the Alberta Auditor General has been the auditor of record for the Securities Commission and has repeatedly given the commission unqualified audit approval, will she do the right thing and bring in a genuinely independent out-of-province investigator? Mrs. McClellan: Well, Mr. Speaker, unlike the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition I have the utmost confidence in the Auditor General, who, I might remind him, is an officer of this Assembly, and I find it distasteful, unusual that such a comment would be made in here of a person of such a respected position.

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005948 Dr. Taft: To the same minister: will she admit that the Alberta Auditor General has no credibility on this issue given that year after year his office has given the commission a clean audit report? Mrs. McClellan: I would absolutely not agree with that statement. Again, I find it unusual and distasteful that an officer of this Assembly would be questioned in this way. The Auditor General of the province of Alberta has provided great service to this govern- ment and to this Assembly. His report will be presented to the Assembly through you, Mr.

Speaker, and I have the utmost confi- dence in this gentleman’s work. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you. Again to the same minister: will she admit that the only reason she has asked the Auditor General to prepare one report for her and a separate one for the Legislature and the public is to keep the public in the dark about the real goings-on at the Alberta Securities Commission? Mrs. McClellan: Well, Mr. Speaker, that speaks to how little the hon. Leader of the Opposition understands, one, my letter to the Auditor General, which I presented in the Assembly yesterday.

I am almost speechless at his attack – I have to call it an attack – on the credibility of the Auditor General. Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General, as I indicated yesterday, was going to do an audit of the Securities Commission as part of his business. This was identified in January. On April 13 I wrote a letter to the Auditor General and asked him that in view of the lingering concerns out there, despite the report that was issued that identified that the regulatory process was being handled in an even- handed and fair way, identified that there were some human resource issues which are being addressed, Mr.

Speaker, because of the importance of the Alberta Securities Commission to the business and investment community, if he would do his report in a complete and timely manner and that he would present that report to me and to the Legislative Assembly. The Speaker: Second Official Opposition main question. The hon. Leader of the Official Opposition. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker. The situation for employees at the Alberta Securities Commission grows worse by the day. Senior management at the Commission have now hired KPMG to conduct a forensic audit of employee e-mails.

This is just another example of the fearful and intimidating c limate that ASC whistle-blowers, many of whom came forward in response to a request from the Minister of Finance herself, are being forced to work in. To the Minister of Finance: will the minister do the right thing, protect whistle-blowers who came forward in good faith, and order an immediate end to the KPMG witch hunt? Mrs. McClellan: Well, Mr. Speaker, again the hon. Leader of the Official Opposition shows a great deal of ignorance of the manner in which this is being handled, and I would like to help him with that.

The internal audit that is being done, the forensic audit, is to protect the security of the systems at the Alberta Securities Commis- sion. In fact, he should be applauding that rather than suggesting that it’s a witch hunt. Mr. Speaker, this very same leader was the one that wanted me to table reports in this House, which I refused to do to protect the anonymity of these very employees. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

Well, given that the KPMG witch hunt will give both the chairman and the executive director of the commission the names and e-mails of employees who have spoken out against misconduct at the commission, will the Minister of Finance ask the RCMP to investigate the e-mails of the chairman and the executive director? Mrs. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about the integrity and the good reputation of the Alberta Securities Commission. As I have indicated time and time again in this Assembly, this is a very, very important institution to the business and investment commu- nity.

I am going to continue to conduct this in a professional manner rather than making allegations and attacks against people where there has been no foundation laid. The Speaker: The hon. leader. Dr. Taft: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: what guarantees, if any, can the Minister of Finance give Securities Commission whistle-blowers that they will not suffer any reprisals for their efforts to bring atten tion to the problems at the Commis- sion? Mrs. McClellan: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I think I have already proved to the employees of the commission that came forward that I will protect the confidentiality of them bringing it forward, unlike the hon. member who wanted the report with names and whatever in it laid before this Assembly. That is what he calls protection. I call protection respecting the confidentiality, respecting the anonymity, and I have not had any concerns from those employees that they are worried about coming forward b ecause of repercussions from this minister. The Speaker: Third Official Opposition main question. The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. 2:00 Electricity Marketing Mr. MacDonald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In 2002 TransAlta admitted to the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission that it used some of the same questionable electricity trading schemes that Enron used in California during 2000 and 2001. [interjection] He may laugh; consumers do not. These dubious tactics, dubbed “ricochet” and “megawatt laundering,” unfairly drove up electricity prices. During that same time Alberta electricity consumers saw power prices triple. My first question is to the Minister of Energy.

What evidence does the minister have that TransAlta did not use the same tactics here in Alberta to drive up prices? Mr. Melchin: Mr. Speaker, he’s comparing it to the same tactics of, I guess, another company, which at this stage no investigations have proven has done things to warrant manipulation of the market. That said, clearly at that time when deregulation occurred, there were shortages of supply, the primary reason why prices increased. Today we actually have the converse. We have an excess of supply, were very successful at having brought on over 3,300 megawatts of power.

Today consumers are enjoying the lowest non-hydro rates around the country. The Speaker: The hon. member.

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 949 Mr. MacDonald: Thank you. Again to the same minister: given that the EUB told this Progressi ve Conservative government that TransAlta unfairly overcharged Alberta electricity consumers $3.7 million in the year 2000, why were TransAlta’s trading activities never the subject of a full, independent, public investigation? Mr. Melchin: Mr. Speaker, there is continual monitoring of the marketplace. The market surveillance administrator continues to act on that behalf.

If he has some sp ecifics relating to something that goes back, he says, to 2002, I guess we’d ask that he forward it to us, and we’ll take a look at it. Mr. MacDonald: Mr. Speaker, the evidence is tabled daily. Again to the same minister: is TransAlta a part of the investigation into market manipulation here in Alberta currently being conducted by the federal Competition Bureau, or is it just Enron and their activities to manipulate prices here in Alberta? The Speaker: I’m not sure the minister can answer that question, but try. Mr. Melchin: I’m not. I don’t know exactly all the specifics; therefore, I won’t.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Norwood, followed by the hon. Member for Calgary-East. Border Closure to Canadian Cattle Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This govern- ment’s inaction in getting the borde r open to cattle exports to the United States is very disappointing. First the government forgot to provide input during the first USDA consultation on border reopen- ing last year, and then Alberta’s $400,000 man in Washington was not able to find his way to the Montana courtroom where R-CALF got its injunction in early March.

Now the provincial Tories are being put to shame by their federal cousins, who are applying to intervene in the July injunction appeal. My question is to the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Why did the government fail to pursue the option of intervening in the appeal of the U.S. District Court injunction, which is scheduled for July 27? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Horner: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s unfortunate that the hon. member doesn’t understand a lot of what’s happened in the last two years, given this particular case.

The Alberta government has been and will continue to be a provider of information and resources to the various numbers of groups and individuals who are working to help us open the border; namely, the United States Department of Agriculture, the United States government, the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, the Alberta Beef Producers association, the Canadian Cattlemen’s Association. Those are the groups that have the best impact in these court cases because it’s their courts. We sympathize, and we appreciate the bid by our federal Conser- vative Party.

The amicus brief application that was done previously failed in what I would consider, Mr. Speaker, a hostile courtroom. The chances of anything further than that are somewhat slim, so we are putting our resources into the appeal process, where we believe we’re going to have a better effect. Mr. Mason: Excuses, excuses, Mr. Speaker. Why does the government remain on its collective duff instead of pursuing every available legal option to ensure that the views of Alberta cattle producers are actually heard in the U.S. courts? Mr. Horner: Well, Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. member has not spoken to the industry.

We met with them last night and continue to meet with them on a daily basis. The Alberta Beef Producers, the Canadian Cattlemen’s Association, who are the i ndustry the hon. member is talking about, are working with us in partnership. We are exploring every available means to try to get the border open and every available means to be successful in the court case. As to the Washington allegation, Mr. Speaker, I believe the Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations would like to supplement that answer. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mason: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Why has this government chosen to blame bad science and R-CALF for this crisis instead of actually working to resolve the political and legal problems that have actually caused the problem in the first place? Mr. Horner: Mr. Speaker, that’s got to be one of the silliest questions I’ve heard in this House. We are working together with the industry, and we are working together with our American partners in this issue to resolve what is a North American integrated market problem.

I believe that we’re on the right track with the industry, working in partnership not only to sustain our industry in Alberta but to build it, to make it stronger, to make it more aggres- sive, to make it more flexible. I believe also that we’re working in a cohesive effort with our American government counterparts in this issue against what is a left-wing, socialist, protectionist group in Montana using their own court system against us. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Calgary-East, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. ESL Funding Mr. Amery: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Northeast Calgary has a rich and diverse ethnic/cultural component. In most schools in my riding some have more than 70 per cent of their students coded as ESL students. In fact, in some schools over 30 different primary languages are spoken, and English is not one of them. The Calgary board of education earlier this week passed a motion urging our government to lift the five-year cap on ESL funding b ecause this diversity leads to educational challenges. My question is to the hon. Minister of Education.

Considering that by the minister’s own admission Calgary has over 50 per cent of the ESL-coded students in the province, would the minister consider raising the amount of money he provides to students and school boards for ESL programs in Calgary? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the intention of our ESL, or English as a Second Language, program is to help students become fully integrated into our K to 12 educa tion system, and that is why two years ago ESL funding was increased by about 71 per cent. In the budget provided just last week, there is a further increase of another 30 per cent.

So we are providing over $40 million now for ESL programming to school boards. In addition to that, we’ve also provided a significant per-student funding increase as well, so the member should be happy to see that.

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005950 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Amery: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Given that statistics and educators in the field of ESL program delivery have told us that the five-year cap on funding can limit their later su ccess in school, would the minister lift the cap to provide funding as needed for individual students? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the funding cap that was introduced last year came in at the same time that our renewed funding framework came in.

Whereas it was deemed appropriate to set a five-year cap on the standard ESL program, so too was it deemed important to increase the rate of funding and the overall funds for standard ESL programming. However, if within that envelope of time the students in question haven’t shown the appropriate progress that teachers feel and that families feel they ought to have shown, they certainly could be looked at for additional funding under our enhanced second language funding program. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Amery: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Could the minister tell the House what other supports are available for ESL students and their families so they can become productive members of our society? Mr. Zwozdesky: I suspect, Mr. Speaker, that one of the best places to turn would be to the school principal and/or, in turn, to the school superintendent and see how the enhanced second language program- ming dollars might be employed to help those children in need. It was always the intention of the education system to see as full an integration as possible of these students within a three-year window. However, five years may be more appropriate for some.

In other cases it might actually take longer than that because we know that in some cases students, unfortunately, come from a totally illiterate background, and that doesn’t just mean English. It could be in the home language. They could have severe literacy problems in their home language as well. So we do provide additional funding under both scenarios, and we just instituted an add itional package of monies. I think the total now is about $357 under the enhanced portion over and above the standard. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning, followed by the hon.

Member for Leduc-Beaumont-Devon. 2:10 Workers’ Compensation Appeals Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Long-standing contentious claims with the Workers’ Compensation Board continue to be a huge burden for many Alberta families. Previous ministers have at times dangled the carrot of hope before these many thousands of Alberta families by saying that something would be done. Then they backed away. My question is to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment. Will this government finally begin some meaningful process to at least move forward slowly on these long-standing contentious claims? Mr. Cardinal: Mr.

Speaker, that’s a very good question, and the answer is reasonably short. It is a complicated issue, it’s a challeng- ing issue, but it is an issue that I feel and the organization, which is an arm’s-length operation, feels the existing appeals processes that are in place can deal with the existing long-term cases that are out there, and they are being dealt with on an ongoing basis. Mr. Backs: Most people don’t believe that, Mr. Minister.

A further question to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment: will the minister have the Appeals Commission budget moved from being funded by the WCB to his general budget so that there’s no connection between the two and so there’s no charge to employers and workers for this arm’s-length service? Mr. Cardinal: No, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Backs: A further question to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment: what is the government trying to do to reduce the incredibly long wait of more than a year and speed up actions brought to the Appeals Commission for workers’ compensation? Mr. Cardinal: Well, Mr.

Speaker, that is not true because the appeals process that is in place is working very well. In fact, we do get very, very few complaints through the MLAs. The complaints have been reduced considerably. The existing process works very well as it is. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Leduc-Beaumont-Devon, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore. Highway Construction Mr. Rogers: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Highway 19 is a very busy road that runs from Nisku to Devon and contains a lot of industrial and heavy traffic.

This highway is a source of frustration for many of my constituents who use this highway to commute to their jobs in Nisku or Edmonton. In fact, there was a very serious accident just two nights ago involving a transport truck and a vehicle containing a young pregnant mother and her small child. My question is to the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation. When will this highway be twinned in order to make it safer and more efficient for passenger and commercial traffic? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Dr. Oberg: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

As the hon. member knows and I’m sure is fully aware, twinning a road will decrease the traffic accidents by about 47 per cent, so you’re seeing a significant decrease in traffic accidents by twinning a road. Also, as the hon. member I hope knows, we have just done a functional inquiry on that particular road, and indeed it is nearing the level at which we will twin. There are some significant issues that we have to work on, one of them being land acquisition for the twinning, but certainly it has been suggested that that road will be twinned in the near future.

The definition of the near future depends on a lot of things such as funding as well as the land acquisition costs that are out there. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Rogers: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary to the minister then: are construction priorities set in stone, or is there some flexibility and ability to change current construction plans? Dr. Oberg: Mr. Speaker, in Alberta we have such a buoyant economy that we see a lot of needs changing, and we attempt to have at least a three-year plan or, potentially, a five-year plan. We actually do see priorities change.

One of the issues, obviously, that is out there as well is funding. As funding becomes available, there will be more and more roads that are going to be paved, that are going to be twinned, that are going to be put into better condition.

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 951 So the short answer to the question is yes. Priorities can be changed, and we look at each one on its individual merits. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Rogers: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the minister for those points. My final supplemental: how does his department set priorities for these types of projects? Dr. Oberg: Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of different ways that we can do it. First of all is condition of the existing road.

What takes priority first is that if you have an existing highway that is deteriorat- ing, we don’t want to lose that particular infrastructure. Apart from that, the most obvious one is utilization. How many vehicles are actually utilizing this? How many people are actually utilizing this highway? There’s a wide myriad of reasons and rationales as to why one particular road is put to the top, but those are probably the two largest ones that we use right now: the number of people and the condition of the existing road. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore, followed by the hon.

Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat. Oil Well Drilling on Crown Land Mr. Bonko: All right. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The second clause of the EUB’s Guide 56 well site application states that consultation with affected land stakeholders is required prior to clearing land. In addition, according to the EUB’s Informational Letter 2001-5,

section 11, clearly prohibits “preparatory or incidental” operations before a well licence can be issued. Rules have been broken. Albertans want answers. My question to the Minister of Energy: why did the government say that all the proper procedures have been followed by oil and gas companies operating at Sawn Lake when this was obviously not the case? Mr. Melchin: Mr. Speaker, with respect to this clearing in particu- lar, information we received at the time is that the mineral rights have been granted, the surface rights leases have been granted, so those permits have been in place.

With respect to the well applica- tion we said at that time also th at the well application licence was yet to come forward. We are going to continue, and we have been, as ministries, the three departments in particular, working co- operatively on this to ensure that all rules in place have been followed. If not, we will continue to enforce the appropriate standards. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Bonko: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since Guide 56,

schedule 4, states that consultation with the affected land stakeholders is required prior to development, why, then, were the Lubicon not notified about the loss of their traplines and hunting grounds? Mr. Melchin: Mr. Speaker, we’d be more than happy, in particular if it comes into traplines and so forth, to gather that information and complete facts surrounding the issue and report in due course. Mr. Bonko: My final supplemental to the same minister: can the minister table these documents completed by all companies operat- ing at Sawn Lake, proving that all the steps, including the EUB’s Guide 56, were met?

Mr. Melchin: Mr. Speaker, I think it is important that the EUB does act in making sure that all the rules and requirements are met; likewise among our various departments with SRD. We’ll be happy to report complete aspects of the details of this case. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat, followed by the hon. Member for St. Albert. Dental Assistance for Seniors Mr. Mitzel: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

After giving so much to the province over the years, a number of seniors in my constituency – and there are many – remain concerned with the level of assistance they receive from our provincial seniors’ programs. In particular, I’ve received complaints about the lack of assistance for dental care provided by the province. My questions today are for the Minister of Seniors and Community Supports. Can the minister tell the members of this Assembly which seniors will actually benefit from the new dental assistance program she announced on budget day? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mrs. Fritz: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. We do recognize that dental health is an important part of healthy aging, which is why we have put in place a new dental assistance program for our seniors. There are approximately 267,000 seniors, which is 80 per cent, that will be eligible for this new program. Full coverage will be provided to seniors that have an income of up to $20,000, full coverage for a couple with an income of up to $40,000, partial coverage for seniors with an income of up to $30,000, and partial coverage for a couple with an income of up to $60,000.

This program has a total coverage for seniors of $5,000 over a five-year period, which is fairly significant. I hope that assists your constituents, hon. member. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mitzel: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: will signing up for this program be complex and involve more confusing forms for seniors to fill out? Mrs. Fritz: Well, no, Mr. Speaker. Actually, it won’t be complex. It’s fairly straightforward and accessible for our seniors. We do have seniors that are in our Alberta seniors’ benefits program.

There are approximately 220,000, which then means that they have already signed onto the program. Also, we’ve been assured by dental offices that they will assist seniors with knowing who is eligible and how they can apply for the program. Those that are not already a part of our Alberta seniors’ benefits program can call our seniors’ toll-free line at 1-800-642-3853 in order to help them with the application process. 2:20 The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Mitzel: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister also tell us what types of dental services are covered by this program? Mrs. Fritz: Mr.

Speaker, I think it’s important to know that the program came about with the assistance of the Alberta Dental Association and College as well as the Alberta College of Denturists. Their assistance helped us to be certain that the program is a basic dental service program. Included in that, hon. member, there are various services offered, which are diagnostic services such as

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005952 examination and X-rays; preventative services such as polishing and scaling; restorative services like fillings; oral surgery; endodontics, more commonly known as root canals; periodontics for gum disease treatment; and full and partial dentures. Also, Mr. Speaker, seniors can receive more information regard- ing that list from their dentists. The Speaker: The hon. Member for St. Albert, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview. Education System Mr. Flaherty: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I like to give credit where credit is due.

After much pressure from parents, teachers, sc hool boards, and the Official Opposition, the government has finally evolved its way to scrapping its achievement tests for grade 4 students in favour of more meaningful diagnostic testing. Since the government appears to be so open to our advice, I thought I might offer some more. My first question to the minister: given that the funding to public schools is scheduled to increase by little more than 3 per cent for years 2 and 3 of the fiscal plan, how does the minister expect school boards to implement diagnostic testing at the K to 3 level? Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr.

Speaker, the pilot test that was conducted last year in June was done entirely for the right reasons, and that was to try and help remediate those children who, unfortunately, did not do as well on their literacy and numeracy tests at the grade 3 level as was anticipated. So in order to not let three years go by before they were retested, a pilot program of testing was brought in.

I have reviewed those pilot test results, and I’ve spoken with teachers and with parents and other administrators and trustees and so on over the past several months, but I don’t ever r ecall having heard of this matter from the opposition. Nonetheless, I accept the kudo that this was an appropriate move to make at this stage. The challenge now, Mr. Speaker, as the questioner has correctly identified, is to bring in some form of replacement, a new remediation program that would help these students achieve the degree of literacy and numeracy that we would all expect. There will be monies to help do that.

The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Flaherty: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the same minister: why are private schools r eceiving a 17.4 per cent increase over three years when public school boards are only r eceiving 12.5 per cent? Public schools should be made the schools of choice, sir. Mr. Zwozdesky: Mr. Speaker, the questioner has apples and oranges mixed up in the same basket, unfortunately. I don’t mean to deride the question or the questioner.

The point is to make it clear that we provide about 60 per cent of 100 per cent of the funding for educational programming needs, and we provide zero funding for capital and plant and operation and maintenance needs for private schools. So to make that kind of comparison of statistics is simply unfair to both the public system and to the private system. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Flaherty: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the same minister: when will the minister provide real direction on issues such as wellness, English as a Second Language, fine arts education, and speech therapy so that boards, teachers, and families know that there’s an educational plan from this minister? Mr. Zwozdesky: Well, Mr. Speaker, there’s a very sound educa- tional plan that is yielding the best results in Canada. You might like to be reminded of that. In fact, when it comes to mathematics and reading and problem solving, generally literacy and numeracy, we rate either first, second, third, or fourth in the whole world.

So obviously there’s a plan, and obviously the plan is working well. There will be additional information coming out in time for the health and wellness curriculum for September of ’06. I’m working with the Minister of Health and Wellness on that now. There will be additional information as well, some of which has already gone out, but there will be more going out on the second languages program- ming as well as on fine arts – we just had a motion debated in the House to that extent – and on other important programming needs for all of our children because we want them to continue being the best.

The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Beverly-Clareview, followed by the hon. Member for Highwood. Community Policing Mr. Martin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today concerned Albertans attended a memorial rally for the latest woman involved in street prostitution to be brutally murdered and left for dead near Edmonton. Now, obviously, we all want the police to get this killer or killers as soon as possible. My question is to the Solicitor General. The budget had no new funding for community policing in our major cities even though we’ve had a raft of these horrendous murders, at least in Edmonton.

My question is simply this: why has the government refused to provide extra funding in the major cities for community policing, which would help protect these most vulnerable citizens? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Cenaiko: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The budget provided over $6 million to municipal services throughout the province with populations over 5,000.

The two largest cities, Calgary and Edmonton, were looked as having the tax ability to provide the resources they need with regard to policing, but this year we provided almost $15 million to the city of Calgary and over $10 million to the city of Edmonton to provide funding with regard to policing services within the city of Edmonton. In addition to that, this year’s budget provided 40 municipal officers in addition to the $25 million that I just mentioned to provide an integrated response to organized crime.

Part of that organized crime that the hon. member speaks about may include homicides and serious crime in the future. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Martin: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The point I’m trying to make is that we’re saying: direct it to community policing. My question to the minister is simply this: would he not agree that community policing in these areas could help prevent the crimes to begin with and perhaps give us some leads on the previous murders? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Cenaiko: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The $10 million that we are providing to the city of Edmonton can be used

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 953 towards community policing initiatives if that is the choice of the city council and the Edmonton Police Commission. Those dollars are used for policing initiatives, for new resources, for their policing budget, and that’s the determination that the city and the Police Commission have to make. Mr. Martin: Mr. Speaker, beyond the policing I’d like to direct the third question to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.

My question is simply this: when will this government raise Al- berta’s woefully inadequate social assistance rates so that vulnerable women are never again forced to make the choice between letting their children go hungry or prostituting themselves in the streets? Mr. Cardinal: Mr. Speaker, that’s a degrading question. As you’re aware, the welfare caseload at one time was over 97,000 cases, and a high percentage of those people were young, single, employable people using up those dollars.

Through the welfare reforms we managed to move dollars; for example, children’s services has a budget with a ministry, persons with developmental disabilities has a budget with a ministry. The rates themselves, the core rates, because we’ve changed the system so successfully that the persons that are really in need – the caseload at this time is only 11,000, and I have started reviewing the core benefits for those rates. In fact, they’ve gone through the process already, and we will be looking at them in the near future. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Highwood, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung.

Wild Rose Agricultural Producers Mr. Groeneveld: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Wild Rose Agricultural Producers has been active in Alberta for a number of years, operat- ing under the banner as Alberta’s only real umbrella farm organiza- tion. Funding has always been an issue for this organization. My questions are for the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Is the government considering a funding formula for this producer group? 2:30 The Speaker: The hon. minister. Mr. Horner: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I believe this issue has been raised and been around for the past 15 years or so and has been brought forward by the Wild Rose Ag Producers and its predecessor, Unifarm, over those number of years. It is an umbrella organization. It has, as I’m told, approximately 1,000 farm unit members, and certainly they have been quite vo cal in raising the issue of their finances with this government, but as an umbrella organization we really do believe that it’s appropriate that the funding for Wild Rose would rest with the commodity organizations and the producers that it represents.

We would encourage Wild Rose to work with those commodity organizations and other groups and, certainly, the individuals that are going to support its ongoing work. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Groeneveld: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first supplemental is for the same minister. If Wild Rose is unable to garner resources from its membership, is the province considering a check-off of licence plate sales to support its work? Mr. Horner: Well, Mr.

Speaker, a general check-off actually might be possible under the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act to provide funds for things like marketing and research purposes. However, the Wild Rose Ag Producers would have to demonstrate that the majority of the province’s farmers agree with the concept before we would consider it. I understand that in previous years this organization has held a lot of public meetings and made some effort to gain some popular consent in rural Alberta, but we haven’t seen that support materialize. Mr. Groeneveld: My final supplemental, Mr.

Speaker: if the Wild Rose Agricultural Producers feel that they are financially strapped to the point where they are unable to represent producers, who will speak for Alberta’s farmers? Mr. Horner: Well, Mr. Speaker, let me be very, very clear. The Wild Rose Ag Producers do have a voice with this government, and they have been heard. But there’s also a whole chorus of other voices in this sector, and we’re well served by them. There are volunteers and there are staff people in a lot of the commodity groups.

We have, certainly, feeder associations, cattle associations, ag societies, even groups like 4-H, who all have a strong voice with this government and the rural MLAs that they represent. In fact, early in my tenure as agriculture minister I convened a meeting of some 40 representatives of different farm groups so that we could sit down and talk about solutions and moving forward with the ag industry in Alberta. In fact, Wild Rose Ag Producers had representatives at that meeting along with the other 39 different organizations that we had at the meeting in Government House. It’s a diverse industry, Mr.

Speaker, with a lot of diverse industry views and a lot of diverse industry challenges, and we listen to all of them. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-McClung, followed by the hon. Member for Stony Plain. Government Efficiency Mr. Elsalhy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In a show of unbelievable arrogance the Minister of Restructuring and Government Efficiency said last week in the House that he hopes the government can “get so efficient that I can sit with my feet up.” Well, taxpayers don’t pay the hon. minister’s $123,000-plus salary so he can sit with his feet up.

To the Minister of Restructuring and Government Effi- ciency: can the minister name five solid actions that he has taken since becoming minister that have made this government more efficient? Mr. Ouellette: Mr. Speaker, I’m very sorry that the hon. member misunderstood my statement last time. I meant that if we could get everything very efficient and I didn’t even have to have a job, that would be a good thing. But, you know, I would always – always – be working towards finding efficiencies for all Albertans. Mr.

Elsalhy: Given that the minister also said that “we run the smallest government in the country,” how is it true with 24 minis- tries compared to Saskatchewan’s 16 or British Columbia’s 19, for example? Mr. Ouellette: Mr. Speaker, there’s an awfully big difference between the population of Saskatchewan and the population of Alberta. I think it’s three times, to be exact, and we definitely don’t have three times as many ministers. And the activity that’s happen- ing in Alberta is probably 10 times.

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005954 Mr. Elsalhy: To the same minister then: couldn’t this government have spent the $45 million it gave to horse racing more efficiently by reducing Alberta health care premium taxes for all Albertans instead of collecting $1,056 every year from every family in this province? Mr. Ouellette: Mr. Speaker, I think it’s been said to the hon. members across that we don’t give any money to horse racing. They actually earn their money, and they do a good job in Alberta. The minister of agriculture would like to supplement. Mr. Horner: If I may, Mr. Speaker.

The horse-racing industry has taken some hits in this House of late, and I wanted to bring the House’s attention to the fact that this industry generates in our economy over $295 million annually, provides over 7,000 jobs to Albertans. This is an industry that is valuable in this province, that contributes to the economy, and contributes to the lottery fund in this province. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Stony Plain, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. Motorcycle Driver Licensing Mr. Lindsay: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is an increasing number of motorcycle accidents in Alberta involving inexperienced operators that are causing serious injuries and deaths. My question is to the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation. Based on the ever-increasing number of motorcycles being registered, is the minister considering a review of the legislation regarding the licensing of operators? The Speaker: The hon. minister. Dr. Oberg: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yes, indeed, we are considering that. As a matter of fact, we are actually doing that right now, and we hope to have the report done by the end of the year.

What we’re taking a look at is what is happening in other jurisdictions, both national and international, and then determining, quite simply, if there do need to be changes to the motorcycle licensing. Certainly, I have seen, especially this time of year when motorcycles come out, that there seems like there are an inordinate number of traffic accidents involving motorcycles. So it is time that we did take a look at it. We are doing it, and hopefully we’ll have an answer by the end of the year. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Lindsay: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My only supplemental is to the same minister.

Will the minister consider introducing legislation to make motorcycle operating safety training a compulsory compo- nent of the licence qualification process? Dr. Oberg: Well, Mr. Speaker, I truly believe that that will be included in the review that we’re doing, and that could indeed be an outcome of that review, so I’m not entirely ruling it out at all. I am leaving it to the people who are doing the review to bring the recommendations to me, and if, indeed, they are recommending legislation, then we will put in legislation. I have no problems in doing that.

But we need to see what is being done in other jurisdic- tions, both national and international, and attempt to follow suit on this very, very important issue. Physiotherapy Insurance Fees Ms Blakeman: Mr. Speaker, there’s an interesting correlation between health care reforms from the province and continued deals for the insurance industry. Neither bode well for Albertans. We get less health care; they make more profit. The latest is reduced fees paid for physiotherapy treatment by insurance companies under automobile insurance reform and a cap on the number of treatments.

My questions are to the minister of health. Why did the government allow this reduction in treatment to Albertans injured in car acci- dents? Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, this is a question for the Minister of Finance. Mrs. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, I think I addressed this question in the House some time ago, actually maybe as much as six or seven sitting days ago. What is firs t anticipated and attempted is a negotiation between the practitioners and the insurance companies. When they are unable to come to an agreement on fees, then we are asked to step in. What I will tell you is that we have set the fees.

This was some weeks ago. In fact, what we’ve tried to do in coming to a resolution of this difficulty when the insurance companies and practitioners themselves were unable to was to review what other fees were paid and to try to introduce fairness. We looked at WCB fees. We looked at what regional health authorities pay and other payers. Even though these fees are somewhat less than they were, they are the highest paid in Canada that we can find anywhere. 2:40 The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you very much. Back to the minister of health again.

The physiotherapists feel strongly that they were given an edict rather than allowed to negotiate these changes. Can the minister tell us what went wrong? The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Health and Wellness. Ms Evans: Well, yes, Mr. Speaker. I do not do insurers. I’m not sure whether or not that reference was, in fact, to the minister of health or to the Minister of Finance. The Speaker: The hon. member. Ms Blakeman: Thank you.

Again to the Minister of Health and Wellness: is allowing a reduction in physiotherapy fees, likely forcing some therapists out of bus iness, part of the government’s health workforce planning strategy? Ms Evans: Mr. Speaker, if we’re not talking about insurers but if we are talking about what the Capital health and Calgary health region have done, I could advise that physiotherapy services provided in those areas are still provided to those who are low income who need the services.

The dollars that are being expended on these allied services – which, incidentally, are supplementary to medicare kinds of coverages but at the discretion of the provinces and the authorities – are focused on providing the maximum coverage for those that are most in need. The Speaker: The hon. Member for West Yellowhead, followed by the hon. Member for Edmonton-Ellerslie.

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 955 Species at Risk Mr. Strang: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My question today is to the Minister of Sustainable Resource Development. The federal government’s Species at Risk Act came into force on June 1, 2004. Did this affect Alberta’s efforts regarding protecting species at risk? Mr. Coutts: Mr. Speaker, the Species at Risk Act shows that the federal government supports the accord for the protection of species at risk in Canada that was signed by all the provinces in 1996. However, Alberta has strong legislation through our Wildlife Act.

In our Wildlife Act we have the kinds of provisions that allow for nests and dens of threatened and endangered species to be protected throughout the year, and that’s an additional protection. Among other things our Wildlife Act provides for huge penalties for poaching. So, actually, Alberta has been very active in managing its species at risk for over 25 years, and we’ve done it in a very responsible way. That’s why we have the kinds of protection under the Wildlife Act that we do. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Strang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My first supplementary question is to the same minister.

Some people criticize Alberta for not enacting a stand-alone species at risk legislation. Is such a piece of legislation necessary? Mr. Coutts: Well, Mr. Speaker, we believe that in Alberta we have something better than stand-alone legislation, and our efforts are a model for all jurisdictions across Canada. We have a number of amendments that have strengthened our Wildlife Act. You know, you can have all the legislation in the world. You need good legislation, but more importantly you also need the resources to go behind that legislation to make sure that you enact and enforce the legislation.

In enacting the legislation, our wildlife officers are on the ground. We also do research with universities and that type of thing on endangered species. Also, our budget this year allows for another $100,000 in addition to the $300,000 that we have for species at risk, plus another $300,000 for caribou work, which is vitally important for that endangered species. The Speaker: The hon. member. Mr. Strang: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My second supplementary question is to the same minister. What successes has Alberta achieved when it comes to species at risk? Mr. Coutts: Mr.

Speaker, in the last 30 years we’ve restored the peregrine falcon, as a prime example, from less than 10 breeding pairs in 1970 to 48 breeding pairs in 2001, and we have hundreds of species that have three approved recovery plans and 11 recovery teams at various stages. So we have very good su ccess with our legislation and our regulations. Speaker’s Ruling Referring to a Legislative Officer The Speaker: Hon. members, I’m rather concerned about the first series of questions today in the House.

I want to refer the House leaders for reading, please, between now and Monday to Beauchesne 493, all sections related to it, and to the booklet House of Commons Procedure and Practice , particularly the

section on page 524, Reference by Name to Members of the Public. Now, it’s very clear that one should be very, very careful about any comments of any kind of a suggestive nature which may be questionable by others to individuals who are not part of this House. In the first series of questions today, however, these questions were about an agent, an officer of this House. In the years that I’ve had the privilege of being in the chair, I do not recall any such line of questioning of any such type of suggestive behaviour.

I’ve also been a member of this House since 1979, and I do not recall questions that even came close to the type today. So I’m going to look at the Blues over the weekend, and I would invite all of the House leaders to look at them as well, as well as the citations in the text with respect to this. I’m also going to ask the chair of the Legislative Offices Committee to undertake a similar review herself as the officer in question is an officer of this Legisla- tive Assembly, the Auditor General, and has no way of defending himself. This is serious, in my view. head: Members’ Statements The Speaker: The hon.

Member for Stony Plain. Education Week Mr. Lindsay: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Next week, April 24 to 30, is Education Week. This year’s theme is Public Education: Proud Legacy, Inspired Future, a theme that recognizes our centennial year. In 1905 part of the establishment of our new province was the development of a school system and a unification of education efforts of schools, large and small, in all corners of the province. That year 121 school districts were inaugurated to serve students in both rural and urban areas.

For many years Albertans were served by one-room schools, that provided a place for learning for children and also served as a community centre for gatherings, town meetings, social functions, fundraising events, theatrical and musical events. Many new ideas and initiatives were launched within the walls of these early schools. Many young scholars found inspiration for a life of achievement in the arts, sciences, medicine, en gineering, politics, business, or community service.

Many a dream was fulfilled, many a romance began, many an antic was hatched, much laughter was heard, and some tears were shed in our schools over the years. Mr. Speaker, these stories and the events of our centennial year in the classroom and in communities across Alberta will help students to reflect on the past and provide an opportunity to learn more about their province. At the same time as they see how the stories evolved and how people lived their lives and faced their challenges, they will be inspired to think about their own legacy to our history and their potential to shape our future.

I ask all members to take time next week to celebrate learning, to honour our students’ achievements, to commend our teachers and school administrators, who contribute to our world-class education system, and to mark Education Week. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Leduc-Beaumont-Devon. Leduc/Grimma Partnership Mr. Rogers: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On April 19, earlier this week, at the Leduc-Nisku Economic Development Authority partnership breakfast in my constitu ency a joint declaration of co- operation was signed between the city of Leduc, Leduc county, and the city of Grimma in Germany.

This breakfast was attended by almost 400 business and political leaders including the hon. Minister

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005956 of Education, the hon. Minister of Economic Development, Consul General Hans-Michael Schwandt of the Federal Republic of Germany, Honorary Consul Fritz Koenig, myself, as well as the mayor of the city of Leduc and the reeve of Leduc county, and many other city and county officials and staff. The partnership began several years ago, Mr. Speaker, after the city of Grimma was flooded in August of 2002. Mr.

Koenig toured the affected area and upon returning to Alberta secured some $50,000 in financial support from the German-Canadian business association as well as $25,000 from the government of Alberta. Through Mr. Koenig the Leduc-Nisku EDA invited Matthias Berger, the bürgermeister, or mayor, of Grimma to tour our region and enter into an economic partnership. However, it quickly expanded to include a full delegation of 23 political and business leaders from Grimma. This delegation was hosted at a luncheon by the Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations and introduced to this House. Mr.

Speaker, the province of Alberta and the province of Saxony in Germany already have an established relationship of co-operation. The city of Grimma and the area comprising Leduc county and the city of Leduc have many similarities, including farming, a large industrial park, and an airport. This co-operation agreement is a great example of how Albertans continue to think outside the box and find opportunities throughout our global village to continue to enhance the Alberta advantage.

Congratulations to Leduc county, the city of Leduc, Leduc-Nisku EDA, and our German partners for this great initiative. 2:50 Stollery Children’s Hospital Mr. Ducharme: Mr. Speaker, I’m happy to rise and inform the Assembly about an important fundraiser currently going on for the Stollery children’s hospital. Th e Stollery Children’s Hospital Foundation radiothon began yesterday, April 20, and continues today and tomorrow. Children, families, and health care professionals gather each year during the radiot hon to share their experiences, showing what makes the Stollery a special place of hope and healing.

Last year’s radiothon raised over $1 million. Over 80 families and hospital staff shared their experiences on the air, and the community responded with 5,674 pledges in support of the Stollery children’s hospital. Mr. Speaker, over 80,000 patient visits occur at the Stollery children’s hospital each year. Children come to the Stollery to receive the very best in state-of-the-art pediatric health care. I would like to thank all the sponsors of the radiot hon for their hard work in making this very important fundraiser happen.

I also want to thank the Stollery Children’s Hospital Foundation for its efforts in helping to save the lives of children. Without the efforts of the foundation the hospital would not be where it is today, a national leader in specialized children’s health care. The foundation raises money for miracles, Mr. Speaker, so I urge Albertans to call in and make a pledge. Let’s beat the million dollars that were raised last year. To make a pledge, the local number is 407-5437 or toll-free at 1-866-407-5437. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Red Deer-North.

Protection of Children Abusing Drugs Legislation Mrs. Jablonski: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe in the power of members’ statements, and I would like to thank the Speaker and the House leaders for the continued evolution of this kind of private members’ avenue for expression in the Assembly. Mr. Speaker, as you remarked last Thursday regarding the unanimous consent of the House to waive Standing Order 8(3) to allow for the consideration of Bill 202, the Protection of Children Abusing Drugs Act, this was an historic occasion.

The all-party consensus was, to use your words, a great “example of parliamentary co-operation, the highest form of democracy.” I wish to sincerely thank all who had a hand in making third reading of Bill 202 possible. What is left to do is royal assent and proclamation. Before the end of the spring sitting, royal assent will occur. Hopefully, not too long thereafter the bill will be proclaimed into law by cabinet.

What happens between royal assent and proclamation is the good work of preparing Bill 202 to be functional in law and administra- tion, and I ask all who are anxious to see the fruits of this bill to be patient as all stakeholders move assuredly toward seeing the first of many young lives saved by the empowered intervention of their parents, the resources of the province, and caring professionals. Mr. Speaker, what better work can we do here than this. Last Thursday we saved young lives. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. Democratic Renewal Mrs. Mather: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to address the topic of democratic renewal, one that is important to many of us in all parties on both sides of this House. I want to start with a fundamen- tal of democracy, the franchise. In our secular, pluralistic society there are few things that truly bind us together except for our quest for security and material well-being. The exercise of our free will in voting is one of the few values that connects us all. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms includes a five-year limit on Legislatures and general elections as part of a list of democratic freedoms.

It is on this freedom that I wish to focus. Mr. Speaker, how can we assure that the ballot is truly a free expression of a public that is being consulted and not merely polled and manipulated? First to be looked at is the date we go to the polls. It is not government for the people if a vote is timed to favour an incumbent government’s chances of re-election or an opposition’s chance of unseating a government. Second is the need to make sure that public funds are not used to favour one interest over another.

To ensure this, a sitting govern- ment must bring down a budget well in advance of a scheduled election, with no additional expenditures, grants, or handouts while a campaign is on. Third is the need for a public audit before a campaign begins. Knowing the state of the books beforehand will make it harder for a party to make rash promises to get elected and then renege on those because the cupboard is bare and harder for a government to stash away surpluses that can be doled out to cover programs not discussed in the election.

It is barely 100 years that we’ve had the secret ballot, less than that since we’ve had universal suffrage. Let us look on those past achievements as examples of and as a spur to a government that is truly of, for, and by the people. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Cardston-Taber-Warner. Raymond Comets Cardston Lady Cougars Mr. Hinman: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is an honour to stand and recognize the outstanding achievement of two high school girls

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 957 basketball teams in my constituency. The first is the Raymond Comets, who won the 4A provincial championships last month. The Comets represent a fine example of Alberta spirit: no challenge is too big, and never give up. The Comets hail from a small 2A school of 230 students. Nevertheless, they choose to compete in the 4A league and go up against the largest schools in Alberta. The Comets are a fine example of rural Albertans, people who accept challenges even when they are faced with overwhelming odds. The Comets were able to defeat E.P.

Scarlett, a Calgary school with approxi- mately 1,500 students, 73-64 in the final. This David and Goliath story shows just how much team spirit, good coaching, and dedica- tion can achieve. The second team is the Cardston high school Lady Cougars, who won their second straight 3A provincial championship. The Cougars won their first provincial championship 50 years ago; however, this time it only took a year to repeat the feat. The Cougars defeated Springbank community high school 77-69 in the final.

Both of these schools have very talented and dedicated athletes and coaches, who played a very vital role in their march to their respective championships. As Wayne Gretzky once said, “The highest compliment that you can pay me is to say that I work hard every day, that I never dog it.” That is exactly what these young ladies and their coaches did this year. I would like to express my appreciation to the players, coaches, and parents for the fine example of commitment and hard work. I am honoured to recognize the Raymond Comets and the Cardston Lady Cougars for their championship season.

Thank you. head: Presenting Petitions The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a petition from a number of good Albertans from the communities of Wetaskiwin, Camrose, Fort Saskatchewan, Ponoka, Evansburg, Mundare, and Edmonton.

It reads: We the undersigned residents of Alberta, petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to prohibit the importation of temporary foreign workers to work on the construc- tion and/or maintenance of oil sands facilities and/or pipelines until the following groups have been accessed and/or trained: Unem- ployed Albertans and Canadians; Aboriginals; unemployed youth under 25; under-employed landed immigrants; and displaced farmers. There are 104 on this petition. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore. Mr. Bonko: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I’d like to present this petition of 106 residents of Alberta that urge the government to “declare the Grizzly bear an endangered species in accordance with recommendations made by the Endangered Species Conservation Committee, scientists and other wild life experts.” head: Notices of Motions The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Zwozdesky: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order 34(2)(

a) to give notice that on Monday I will move that written questions appearing on the Order Paper do stand and retain their places. I’m also giving notice that on Monday I will move that motions for returns appearing on the Order Paper do stand and retain their places as well with the exception of motions for returns 24, 25, and 26. head: 3:00 Tabling Returns and Reports The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Calder. Mr. Eggen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On behalf of my colleague the hon. leader of the ND opposition I would like to table a letter from the Calgary Local Council of Women.

The council would like to see the Alberta minimum wage raised to $9 per hour to ensure a living wage for low-income workers. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Decore. Mr. Bonko: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings. One is the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board Informational Letter IL 2001- 5. Five copies there. The second one of five copies is the Alberta Energy and Utilities Board Guide 56,

schedule 4, well licence application, to which I referred today. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. Mr. MacDonald: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I have two tablings today. The first one is a document titled: Is Your Public School at Risk? This is a document that lists over 20 schools, unfortunately, in the city of Edmonton that could be closed because of this government’s cumbersome and out-of-date utilization formula. The second tabling I have is a notice of amendment for Bill 201, Smoke-free Places Act.

This is an amendment that will give this bill another chance at committee in this Assembly. Thank you. The Speaker: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Mr. Backs: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m tabling the March 2005 labour force statistics, actually from the government’s report. It states that construction jobs are down 11,600 between the months of March and February in this province and 1,900 between March this year and March of last year. head: Tablings to the Clerk The Clerk: I wish to advise the House that the following documents were deposited with the office of the Clerk. On behalf of the hon.

Ms Evans, the Minister of Hea lth and Wellness, pursuant to the Health Disciplines Act the Health Disciplines Board annual reports, January 1, 2003, to December 31, 2003, and the same report for the period January 1, 2004, to D ecember 31, 2004. On behalf of the hon. Dr. Oberg, Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation, aircraft charter documents, April 2001 to December 2004. head: Projected Government Business The Speaker: The Official Opposition House Leader. Ms Blakeman: Thank you.

Under Standing Order 7(5) I would ask the Government House Leader to please share the projected government business for the upcoming week of April 25 to 28, please. Thank you.

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005958 The Speaker: The hon. Government House Leader. Mr. Hancock: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Monday, April 25, 2005, at 9 p.m. or as soon as Motions Other than Government Motions is completed, in Committee of Supply we have Economic Development on day 8 of 24. Following that, second reading of Bill 35, Employment Pension Plans Amendment Act, 2005; Committee of the Whole on Bill 37, the Financial Statutes Amendment Act, 2005; and third reading of Bill 5, the Family Law Amendment Act, 2005, and as per the Order Paper.

On Tuesday, April 26, in the afternoon under Government Bills and Orders Committee of Supply and the Department of Environ- ment, day 9 of 24. In the evening at 8 under Government Bills and Orders Committee of Supply, Children’s Services, for day 10 of 24. After the Children’s Services estimates have been completed, Committee of the Whole on B ill 1, second reading on bills 36 and 29, and as per the Order Paper. Wednesday, April 27, in the afternoon under Government Bills and Orders Committee of Supply, Infrastructure, day 11 of 24.

Wednesday, April 27, at 8 p.m. in Committee of Supply Executive Council estimates in day 12, and thereafter third reading on Bill 37, the Financial Statutes Amendment Act, 2005, should it have proceeded to that stage, Committee of the Whole of bill 15 and 16, and as per the Order Paper. Thursday, April 28, in the afternoon under Government Bills and Orders Committee of Supply, day 13 of 24, Human Resources and Employment, and as per the Order Paper. Vignettes from Alberta’s History The Speaker: Hon. members, the historical comment for the day.

On April 21, 1971, two retiring cabinet ministers were made honorary life members of the Alberta legislative press gallery. Provincial Treasurer and Member for Alexandra Anders O. Aalborg and minister of mines and minerals and Member for Lacombe Allen Russell Patrick were awarded the membership. Mr. Aalborg was a cabinet minister in the Social Credit government from 1952 to 1971 and Mr. Patrick from 1955 to 1971. head: Orders of the Day head: Committee of Supply [Mr. Marz in the chair] The Chair: I’d like to call the Committee of Supply to order. head: Main Estimates 2005-06 Finance The Chair: The hon.

Minister of Finance. Mrs. McClellan: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to introduce these estimates by introducing some very talented people in the members’ gallery who are responsible for putting together the budget and the business plan for Alberta Finance. We have present with us Mr. Robert Bhatia, who is deputy minister of revenue. I understand that Deputy Minister of Finance Mr. Brian Manning is going to join us. We have Tim Wiles, our comptroller.

We have Rod Matheson, treasury management; Lukas Huisman, ADM in revenue; Peter McNeil, chief administrative officer of revenue; Bonnie Lovelace, senior financial officer; Darwin Bozek, financial services; Juliette Blair, business planning and reporting; Richard Shelast, financial services; Linda Chupka, office of the Deputy Minister of Finance; Richard Purnell, office of budget and manage- ment. I’m particularly pleased to introduce Nicola Sargeant from financial services, who is our co-op student. I welcome Nicola to what I’m sure will be an exciting afternoon.

We have also in the gallery from my office Maureen Osadchuk and Jeff Haley. Mr. Chairman, this is a pretty straightforward set of estimates. It’s in support of a financially strong, sustainable, and accountable government. Our strategic priorities in our business plan w ill be focusing on a number of key areas, particularly our fiscal frame- work. Now that our province is debt free, we have to make changes to our legislation to ensure that the money that’s set aside in our debt retirement account is locked in.

Of course, we reference also in those changes the commitment to adding to our endowment funds, to our capital plan, and of course savings. Pensions, Mr. Chairman: we’ve seen in this House policy changes that will better reflect the changing needs of plan members, adminis- trators, and the industry as a whole. Mr. Chairman, another item that we’ve debated in the House through legislation is the provincial/territorial initiative to establish a passport regulatory system in Canada.

We are also making what some may call – and probably they are – housekeeping changes so that our securities legislation is in sync with Canadian jurisdictions. All of these things we think w ill ensure consistency for market participants and investors. Mr. Chairman, we also intend to continue to maintain our tax advantage. Albertans and Alberta businesses pay the lowest overall taxes in Canada.

We hear from time to time that if you take some very specific areas, there may be some tax discrepancy between provinces, but I don’t think anybody can legitimately argue that Albertans do not pay the lowest overall taxes in Canada. We intend to continue that. The heritage savings trust fund in this business plan begins to be inflation-proofed. As all members would be aware, there was a commitment to inflation-proof the heritage savings trust fund once the debt was paid. That obligation begins now. I’m not going to go into a lot of detail in the various estimates.

I thought I would try to pick out so me areas that I thought would be of interest to members. Our overall budget in some areas is down. Where we have increased spending is in areas to implement our automobile insurance reform a nd the Automobile Insurance Rate Board. The Insurance Act enables recovery of costs from the industry: pension, insurance, and financial institutions.

We still have to show that as an expense even if it is recovered. 3:10 The other area where we’re increasing some spending, and I think members will agree it’s an important area, is to enhance our investment capability, capacity, and quality assurance. This will allow us to invest in alternate asset classes and introduce specialized products to generate higher investment returns. Again, about 50 per cent of this is recovered from clients outside of government. Further funding is in one of my staff upstairs’ favourite places, improved compliance and audit coverage tax and revenue adminis- tration.

This is in direct response to a recommendation from the Auditor General. An additional $350,000 is also identified in the tax area, which is required to administer the tax-exempt fuel users program, or as we affectionately call it, TEFU. Mr. Chairman, there are some further small additions in the investment administration division, and the increase there is offset by a $7.8 million reduction in budgeted debt servicing costs.

Statutory spending, pending legislative approval, will increase funding to the Alberta heritage savings trust fund for the access to the future fund and the Alberta Heritage Foundation for Medical

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 959 Research endowment fund. I think all members would agree that the Alberta Heritage Foundation for Medical Research is a fine example of what can be achieved by investing funds for tomorrow. Addi- tional funds for the Alberta heritage foundations, of course, are also included in science and engineering research. We have an increase for the Alberta Securities Commission, and that relates to the FTE increase to strengthen enforcement in capital market resources. Revenues: the increase in department revenue is primarily from personal and corporate income taxes.

That is not due to increasing taxes, of course, in this province, but it’s due to a very strong growth in personal incomes, high energy prices, and healthy corporate profits. The implementation of the tourism levy is also found in this budget, and it is to provide funding for tourism marketing and development, as tourism is a very important part of our economy. Fifty-two of the 86, or 60 per cent, of the FTEs that are identified here for externally funded agencies. I’ll mention those: the Alberta Pensions Administration Corpor ation, the Alberta Securities Commission, and the Alberta Insurance Council.

Of the remaining, 17 respond to an Auditor General’s recommendation on audit and compliance, and six are for the new rate board. That is a very quick overview of operations and estimates. We can certainly go into these in more detail as you bring forward your questions. As always, I make the commitment that if I do not answer your questions in the House today for lack of time or, in fact, not having the answer at my hand, I will make the commitment to have that answer back to you in writing, and those responses will be back to you before our budget debates in this Assembly are con- cluded. So, Mr.

Chairman, I think that with those comments, I’ll take my place and await your comments. I do want to just close hoping that all members present would acknowledge the hard work of the staff that are in that gallery. I don’t think anyone will disagree that we had very tight time frames for putting together a very complex and large budget, and they did yeoman service. In fact, I was kidding, but it wasn’t a joke, that the Easter bunny had to deliver the Easter treats to the Terrace Building this year and other finance and revenue offices rather than their homes.

They do a great service for us, and I thank you, and I think all members of the Assembly do. The Chair: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. Mr. R. Miller: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I’m pleased and, in fact, honoured to have the opportunity to rise today and speak on behalf of the Official Opposition to the budget estimates for the Department of Finance for this current fiscal year. I, too, would like very much to make some introductions, Mr. Chairman.

I would very much like to introduce my researcher, David Kincade, who has worked yeoman hours himself trying to prepare me and make me sound like I have some reasonable understanding of this document today. Unfortunately, David Kincade is the only researcher I have, and in fact I have to share my researcher with two other MLAs. He’s busy today tearing into his next department, so I’m left to do this on my own. I would also like, Mr. Chairman, to introduce my communications staff, particularly Josh Stewart. Unfortunately, I share Josh Stewart with about seven other MLAs, so he can’t be here today.

I would very much like to introduce my administration staff, who support me and make sure that the material that comes out of my office looks professional and represents the Official Opposition well. Unfortu- nately, I also share Mark with seven others. So none of those people can be here today. I appreciate very much the thanks that the minister has given her staff, and I can only hope that some day I may have that number of staff working for me. Mr. Chairman, it does beg the ques tion, and this is the first question.

I’m going to first of all comment on the fact that although I very much appreciate the absolutely astounding gift of the Mactaggarts to this province, the extra-long festivities today did cut into my time. I’ll try to be fairly brief, and I’ll try to hurry along, and I hope that I don’t speak too fast for the minister, because that comment was made last night in budget debate. If I do, please let me know, and I’ll give you some of these questions in writing. I also very much appreciate her comments regarding getting answers back in writing. She has held to her word up until now.

I appreciate that very much, and I expect that she will do the same again. One of the comments I’d like to make is that because of the fact that we’re not likely to see Finance come up in Public Accounts, some of my questions may actually be more appropriate for Public Accounts. If the minister can accommodate me, given that we won’t have the opportunity to ask those questions in Public Accounts, I would very much appreciate that as well.

The first question I would have is: $645,000 for the communica- tions budget for the ministry, and I’m wondering if she could share with us just exactly how many staff are involved in communications with her ministry. In fact, Mr. Chairman, one of the questions that I had hoped to ask was which companies, which ad agencies the ministry uses. I’m not sure if that’s something that I would be able to get an answer to as well, but if possible I would like to have that.

I mentioned last night in debate around Bill 37 – and I know that the minister has committed to answering it when we get to commit- tee on Bill 37, but I’d like to get it on the record here as well – the very effective use of communications in her department. In particular, I’m referring to the fiscal plan, page 30, where there’s discussion about the lifting of the cap of expenditures on resource revenue to $4.75 billion from the current cap of $4 billion.

Interest- ingly enough, both in the press releases and then in this document it refers to the fact that “amendments to the Fiscal Responsibility Act will limit the amount of non-renewable resource revenue that can be used for budget purposes.” The wording, obviously, would lead the untrained eye to think that we’r e keeping things down

whereas, in fact, what we’re doing is lifting the cap by $750 million. Again, on behalf of the minister I’d compliment the communications staff for their effective use of the English language in that regard. 3:20 Now, I just want to touch on taxes briefly. There were in this most recent budget basically no tax breaks for Alberta taxpayers. That certainly causes me some concern.

One of the things that I had suggested – and I think it’s perhaps in a motion that is on the list but won’t likely see the light of day in this legislative sitting – is that we could consider lowering the flat tax from 10 per cent to 8 per cent given the fact that we’re experiencing, you know, absolutely tremendous resource revenue right now and oil and natural gas prices are at the highest they’ve ever been. If we’re ever going to give the citizens of this province a tax break, now might well have been the time to do so.

The other thing we could have looked at, of course, would be to lower the income threshold for lo w-income earners to once again give them some recognition for the fact that they’ve paid the price over the years in terms of cutbacks. Given the current fiscal situation that the province finds itself in, now would have been an appropriate time to do so, I think. One of my colleagues from the NDP caucus mentioned the other day that when you include the health care premium tax that we

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005960 charge families in this province – and I think my colleague from Edmonton-McClung suggested that it’s $1,056 per family every year – you can actually find many situations where we’re paying more tax in Alberta than Ontarians do. So it’s certainly debatable as to whether, in fact, we do have the lowest tax regime in the country. There’s nothing in this budget that provides any relief for small business. I’ve mentioned before that I’m a small businessman, so I recognize the struggles that small business has in this province.

It’s not to say that it isn’t a very good climate to do business in, but certainly there are challenges for small business, and corporate tax is one of them. There’s nothing in here that addresses that. I’ll speak to that a little more in a few minutes, Mr. Chairman. A hundred and eighty-six million dollars collected in the coming fiscal year on the insurance premium tax.

Again, I’ve suggested that if we want to give Alberta drivers a break and, in fact, if we were to eliminate that, it would benefit not just privately owned insured vehicles but small business vehicles as well, which everyone will know is a cause that I’ve been on this week. The hotel tax, or levy as it’s now called, the minister referred to in her opening comments. You will know or you can certainly check Hansard where I complimented the government for, in fact, reducing the rate of that tax and still finding a way to make sure that that reduction would result in more dollars for the promotion of tourism.

However, at the moment it’s not clear whether or not consumers are actually going to benefit from that reduction as we have several groups including the hoteliers’ association in Edmonton musing over collecting a 1 per cent tax to promote themselves. So, in fact, we may not see any reduction at all. Although the Alberta government may collect less tax, the end result for the consumer might not be any different whatsoever.

I’d referred a few minutes ago to the lifting of the cap on resource revenue expenditures to $4.75 billion, and it gives me one more opportunity to reference Bill 203, which is a private member’s bill from our Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar which brings forward the Alberta Liberal’s plan for a legacy act and would have seen 35 per cent of any surplus revenue put into the Alberta heritage savings trust fund, 35 per cent into the advanced education endowment, 25 per cent into addressing the municipal infrastructure debt, which we’ve calculated to be somewhere in the area of $8 billion, and the remaining 5 per cent of any surplus to go into the arts and humani- ties endowment fund.

Just to use this year as an example – I know we don’t have the final fourth- quarter results yet – it’s looking like probably some- where approaching $6 billion in surp lus. Using that number, Mr. Chairman, had we had the Alberta legacy act passed, you would be looking at $2.1 billion this year going into the heritage savings trust fund and an equal $2.1 billion going into the advanced education endowment fund, which, quite frankly, would dwarf the $250 million that this government has committed to put into the fund this year.

I think when you look at $2.1 billion that could have gone into the advanced education endowment fund, you can see why we were suggesting that a $3 billion cap is not really appropriate because we’d get there in a year or two without any question. I’m going to move into the books now and just kind of whip through them, and I’ll have some questions for you. I hope I don’t go too fast, and as I said, if I do, please let me know. The first comment is that the revenue assumptions were based on a crude oil price of $42 a barrel.

I’ve gone on record as saying that I’m actually surprised that the minister chose to use a number as high as $42. Not that I didn’t wish she would use a higher number, because I suspect that something more along the lines of $45 or $48 might be more realistic, but I had expected, quite frankly, that she would be down around $40, so I was pleased to see that.

For the coming two years, ’06-07 and ’07-08, we’re using the figures of $32 and $31, and I’m not so sure, again based on some of the recent projections we’ve heard from i ndustry analysts that are predicting a spike as high as $105, whether or not $32 and $31 are going to be terribly realistic, but I will be the first to admit: who knows?

I have said before, and I will say it again on the record in this House, that one of the reasons I’m an Alberta Liberal is because I became very, very frustrated in the late ’80s, when the Treasurer at that time and the Premier were forecasting oil at $30 a barrel and basing their budgets on $30 a barrel when, in fact, we were looking at $16 and $17 world prices. So I would certainly much rather have this problem than that problem, and I’m not afraid to say that on the record. It’s certainly much better to have money left over than to come up so short as we were doing back then.

The other thing that catches my eye when I’m looking at the economic assumptions is that this year we’re basing the assumptions on a Canadian dollar valued at 83 and a half cents American, which is perhaps a little low based on what’s happening right now, but we’re certainly likely to hover somewhat above 80 cents, so it’s probably reasonable. The following two years we’re using projec- tions of 85 cents. I’m not sure whether or not that’s realistic. It might be. I suspect it’s a little high, but certainly it does impact on the overall financial picture.

In fact, most of you will recognize that if it ends up being somewhat lower, our numbers look better in the end because of the fact that we’re a resource-based economy, so it may be one more way in which we can sort of lowball the bottom line and end up at the end of the year with an even bigger surplus than we might have predicted. Mr. Chairman, I’d also like to ju st touch briefly on the heritage savings trust fund. I know the minister did as well in her comments.

Actually, first, before I do that, I’m going to just talk very briefly about the Auditor General’s recommendations – and she did indicate that most of them have been accepted and that there is some money in the department’s plan to address those – particularly, though, number 16 from last year’s AG report, where the recommendation was made that for high-risk employer pension plans, in those situations, that the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions obtain: • assurance from pension plans’ auditors on the plans’ compli- ance with the Employment Pensions Plan Act, and also • information on pension plans’ governance structure and practices.

The minister has indicated in the fiscal plan that plans are under way to reach those recommendations by March 31 of 2006, and I’m just hoping that she can update us as to exactly where we are at with that because alt hough it says that we’ll get there by the end of this current fiscal year, I’m curious how far along that road we are at this point in time. Also, the AG’s recommendation 17 indicated “again.” When they use the word “again” in the Auditor General’s report, I’m assuming that means the recommendation had been there previously and hadn’t been dealt with.

I could stand to be corrected, but that’s certainly the way I read it. They “again recommend that Alberta Treasury Branches ensure its lending officers comply with corporate lending policies.” Certainly, in here it indicates that the govern- ment’s response has been to accept that recommendation and that, in fact, most of the significant changes will be implemented by June of this year.

But given the fact that we are now not much more than two months away, I would hope that we could be updated on that and just be assured that we will in fact meet that target since it’s obviously not the first time that it has appeared in the Auditor General’s report.

April 21, 2005 Alberta Hansard 961 3:30 I’m going to move now to the business plans of the ministry, Mr. Chairman, and touch on some questions that I have there. The first thing that jumps out at me is bus iness goal 1, which calls for “a financially strong, sustainable and accountable government.” I’m sure we all would like to see that. Everybody in this House would like to see that.

In the performance measures it’s referenced that when surveyed, the “percentage of Albertans who think they get enough information on the government’s financial performance” – the last actual year that we have data for that was ’03-04, and it was only 57 per cent of Albertans who felt that way. The target for this fiscal year is 70 per cent, which I suggest is laudable. My question would be: what plans does the government have, what plans does the minister have to get us there? Is there an advertising campaign involved, or do they have some other plans to get to that point?

Then I’m also wondering if we had actual measurements for 2003- 04. I’m going to assume that there may be measurements coming for ’04-05, but there was no target for 2004-05. So I’m just wondering. Not that there’s n ecessarily a discrepancy, but it does cause me to question: did we decide at some point that we didn’t need that information last year or that it wasn’t valuable enough to include it as a target to improve on that number of 57 per cent in the last fiscal year? I’m not sure. So if the minister could provide some clarification on that, it would be helpful. Goal 2, Mr.

Chairman, calls for “a fair and competitive provincial tax system.” When I was referring to that a minute earlier, I suggested that if ever there were to be a time when we should be considering a slight decrease in personal income taxes, I would have thought that it would be now given that, in fact, the government does have the money in the bank to pay off the debts as those instruments come due and given the fact that even in this budget we are project- ing a 1 and a half billion dollar surplus.

If we’re ever going to make any move towards that, even just a small token move, at least some show of good faith to Alberta taxpayers, particularly low-income earners, that in fact they can benefit in this way as well from the so- called Alberta advantage, then I really believe that this would have been the time to do it. So I’m a little disappointed to see that we didn’t take that step now.

The other thing is that strategy 2.1 on that same page refers to the implementation “as affordable” of the business tax plan, which, I mentioned earlier, would have reduced the corporate income tax from 11.5 per cent to 8 per cent. I understand that it’s still a strategy that you’re working towards, but perhaps you could provide us with a timeline; you know, whether that’s something you hope to have in next year’s budget or the year after. Or is it still sort of a pie in the sky thing that we hope to attain some day? Again, given the current fiscal situation, I would have thought that perhaps we could do it now.

I’m going to jump over a few and go to goal 8, which calls for “reliable and competitive financial and insurance products and services,” and just highlight one line in there, where it says that “Finance will monitor the availability and cost of other general property and liability insurance for businesses, non-profit organiza- tions and individuals.” In other words, other than auto insurance here’s an opportunity for the department to address some of the concerns, I believe, that I’ve been raising this week in the House as it relates to small businesses and nonprofits and the tremendous burden that they carry right now as it relates to all forms of insur- ance, not just auto insurance.

Goal 9 talks about having quality and competitive financial services available and accessible to all Albertans. In particular, it refers in here to the Alberta Treasury Branch and the services that they provide to rural Alberta. I’m not going to suggest for one second that they don’t provide a very valuable service to rural Albertans, but I did notice this year, when the Alberta Treasury Branches announced their expansion plans, that they’re concentrat- ing very, very heavily on expanding in, primarily, Edmonton and Calgary and other urban centres, with very little expansion planned for rural Alberta.

Given the fact that we have suggested in the past that we’re out of the business of business, I would have hoped that we would have moved into a situation where we were going to expand more in rural Alberta and address some of the concerns of those smaller communities. Mrs. McClellan: I’m going to cover just a few of the items. It might help with questions that other members have. I’ll try and be brief. You asked how many communications staff I have in Finance. I hope you’ll remember that we manage a budget of just under $26 billion when I give you the answer.

There are 6.4 FTEs in my communications department in Finance, and there are two staff that are assigned from the Public Affairs Bureau. That is the sum total of those wonderful people that try to ensure that people are under- standing well what we’re doing. I appreciate your comments on Bill 37 and the limit: $4.75 billion. I guess I like the wording that I used. Taxes.

I’ve got to take a little exception to you saying there’s no tax break for Albertans because I think you’re really ignoring that tax breaks that are in this budget are targeted, and they’re targeted to the very people who most need those tax breaks. If you are a working family with an income of some $32,000, $33,000, I suggest to you that the employment tax credit that we implemented, increasing the number of children allowed under that from two to four, lowering the threshold from $6,000 to just over $2, 000, was incredibly important to those people.

I guess that when I search my conscience and my thoughts, if you had to make choices, which is what this budget really was about, choices of investing in health, investing in advanced education, investing in infrastructure, whic h I think you’ve all agreed were good investments, investing in increasing benefits to AISH – and I have to really applaud our Minister of Seniors and Community Supports for the package that AISH recipients got because it is very complete. It is about more than just a cash benefit.

When you look at the additional services and programs that they have eligibility for, I think she’s done a fine, fine job in that area. But it was about those choices. We did remove the health premiums from all seniors. Again, I think that for people who generally – I say generally – are on fixed incomes, this was a good move. To freeze the property tax for seniors, who again are quite often on fixed incomes and have trouble adjusting to these fluctua- tions in costs, I think was a good move.

So if I had a choice – and I did – of lowering perhaps the corpo- rate tax rate a half a per cent or giving the tax break in the areas that we did and still being able to inve st in those important programs, I believe we made the right choice. Of course, we all have the right to our own opinion. To consider that because we’re forecasting a surplus, we could have done a tax break is very unwise, and I think the hon. member actually would agree with that. You do not want to do a tax break unless you can ensure that those dollars will be there in the next year and the next year and the next year.

The one thing you don’t want is to be going back and forth on this or reducing programming spending to keep your tax break in place. 3:40 We have said very clearly that we will continue our program on reducing corporate tax to 8 per cent as we can. This year was not the

Alberta Hansard April 21, 2005962 year. The 13.4 per cent to Advanced Education, the 7.1 per cent to Education, the increase to AISH recipients, the abilities to assist those who are more vulnerable in our society with tax breaks were, in our view on this side of the House, the right ones to do this year. When we do introduce a tax reduction – and we will. I’ve said that I’m all for it. I pay taxes the same as everyone else in this Legislature. I’m right in the front of that parade.

But when we do that, they will be sustainable, and they won’t be at the cost of services to students or to people who need health services. So it was about choices. I think that was pretty transparent. I think I was pretty straightforward in that. The 3 per cent insurance premium has come up. Again, look at it as part of a tax package that we can do. I’d like to be able to do that as well or, at least, lower it to the cost of providing the service. However, I want to ensure that if we do, that reduction actually flows to the consumer, and the ditch isn’t filled.

The hon. member himself raised the question as to whether the hotels are going to fill a ditch, an area that we removed ourselves from. So that’s impor- tant. You also mentioned a private member’s bill, and I appreciate very much the principle of that bill. However, for me to support it and vote for it, there would have to be a change in the bill because I am in disagreement in one area. I think you tie your hands too much by putting specific percentages in because it may be that you need more money in capital.

I raise the Fort McMurray presentation that was made, that we talked about in the House, where they have high growth and some big challenges. You may want to put it all in endowments in one year. You may want to put more in capital, less in endowments. Certainly, our desire is to get those endowments to the full figure as quickly as possible, but I don’t agree with tying your hands on absolute percentages because, you remember, we’re talking a bout unbudgeted surpluses. We’re talking about future surpluses and choices of where you put them.

You may decide to put more in science and engineering, more in the arts and humanities, more in the scholarship funds, maybe, a novel thought, more in savings to actually gain a revenue stream for future years. So I agree with your bill. I don’t agree with the percentages, but we’ll have more discussion on that. Forecasting oil and gas prices: well, an interesting exercise. I could go back in Hansard and go back in news clippings and point out to the hon. members how many times they were wrong last year, but that would be kind of a useless exercise, wouldn’t it?

We use the best information we have from the best analysts we have, the same people that you talk to, I’m sure. The only thing I was interested in was on the future years because, frankly, I can’t find an energy analyst that’s really comfortable about forecasting out in the second and third years, and I think you’d find the same thing. I’ve said that this is a reality budget. It’s transparent. It’s straightforward. It’s putting it on the line as we see it, and our best information from our analysts in all information was that the low 40s was probably a pretty prudent place to look at oil.

Now, I’m going to get picky here. If I heard this right – and I’m going to read Hansard over; I always do – 83 and a half per cent is too low. I heard that. I might not have heard it right – it might be lower, something like that – and 85 per cent might be high. I’m going to suggest that the hon. member is splitting hairs and getting picky. Mr. R. Miller: I said that 83 and a half might be a bit too high. Mrs. McClellan: Yeah. I’m not sure because you didn’t tell me exactly where it should fall. But, again, we use the best information we have. Today it was just under 81 cents.

It fluctuates, but it has stayed maybe a little lower than I had thought it would the last couple of weeks. Heritage savings trust fund: total agreement. We need to inflation-proof it. We need to continue to grow that fund and have those targeted investment dollars available for future years. Auditor General, pensions. We’re continuing those consultations. Our stated goal is still our stated goal of March 31, ’06. For the ATB we think that those targets can be met. I have no indications that they can’t be. We will continue to monitor other general property taxes and so on.

What I haven’t entirely come to any conclusion on in my own mind is what you could do or should do or how much intervention or interference you have as the government into what is a private market. I’ve said consistently that we felt that we should enter the automobile insurance area under public liability and property damage because we say that you have to have those before you operate a vehicle, and of course we were finding that a number of people were not insuring their vehicles because of the cost of insurance. So we’ll monitor it and go on from there.

You had the target on the number of Albertans who think they get enough information on our financial performance. The 2004-05 target was published in Budget 2004. That target was 70 per cent in ’04, and we’re still on target for that for ’05 to ’08. We don’t have our actual results audited for ’04-05, so I can’t be any more specific in that area. It should be available in our annual report later this summer. The last one quickly: ATB, cities expansion.

I think if you look at the capital investment that ATB has done, they did the majority of their investment of capital in rural and now are attending to urban, which is an important part of their portfolio. Now, I’m not sure, when you say that we talk about not being in business, whether you have anything further to say on government participation in ATB or not, but I’ll look forward to that in your next line of comments. Thank you. The Chair: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Rutherford. Mr. R. Miller: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I can’t believe how quickly 20 minutes goes by when you’re having fun.

Must be having fun. The next question that I had for the minister. On page 247 of the business plans under Ministry Statement of Operations, net income from commercial operations, I’m curious what that is because I did mention getting out of the business of business. I see that in the last fiscal year, ’04-05, the forecast was for a net income of $155 million from commercial operations. That jumps to $167 million in this

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20050421
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L26 S1 20050421 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	987e060481d7342ef2745c55194e72e7662f0659

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