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May 9, 2016

41st Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-May-09 (PDF)

L170 - Mon 9 May 2016 / Lun 9 mai 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Monday 9 May 2016 Lundi 9 mai 2016

Introduction of Visitors

Oral Questions

Government accountability

Government accountability

Nurses

Nurses

Sexual harassment

Sexual harassment

School accommodation

Government services

Energy policies

Aboriginal children and youth

Sexual harassment

Autism treatment

Poverty

Social Assistance Management System

Huronia Regional Centre for the Developmentally Disabled

Visitors

Deferred Votes

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario (sécuriser la retraite en Ontario)

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Battle of Monte Cassino

Nurses

Battle of Monte Cassino

Ontario Small Urban Municipalities conference

Child care

Lakeshorts International Short Film Festival

Nurses

Fire in Fort McMurray

Russell Agricultural Society Ladies’ Night

Introduction of Bills

Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Helmet Exemption for Sikh Motorcyclists), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant le Code de la route (exemption de l’obligation de port du casque pour les motocyclistes sikhs)

Allergy Friendly Schoolyard Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur les cours d’école non allergisantes

Motions

Private members’ public business

Standing Committee on Estimates

Petitions

Prompt payment

Hospital funding

Child care

Privatization of public assets

Speed limits

Water fluoridation

Hospital funding

Gasoline prices

Water fluoridation

Health care funding

Privatization of public assets

Sexual violence and harassment

Orders of the Day

Energy Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois sur l’énergie

The House met at 1030.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Ernie Hardeman: I’m pleased to rise today to welcome Anne van Leeuwen, consul general of the Netherlands, who is here today for the annual Dutch Heritage Month flag raising, which is taking place right after question period. Welcome.

Hon. Michael Coteau: On behalf of Minister Naqvi, I’d like to welcome Mattias Falkner, Caroline Falkner and Beth Martin, who are the family of page captain Benjamin Falkner, here to the Legislature today.

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: It is my pleasure to welcome RNs from Windsor and Essex county: Carol Ahpin, Karen Bertrand, Vicki McKenna, Jo-Dee Brown, Cheryl Colborne, Bruce Jewell, Sandy Kravets, Barb Marcolin, Barbara Porter, Veronika Pulley, Sherri Sherbo and Gwen Spencer-Giswein. They are here to help us celebrate Nursing Week.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: It’s a great day for Nepean–Carleton and my dear friend, page captain Faiz Jan. His parents are all the way here from Ottawa today. I want to recognize them: Shireeh and Salman Jan, and his little brother, Faraaz Jan. They are joining us here in the gallery today, and I’m looking forward to taking them to the legislative dining room right after question period.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: It’s my pleasure to welcome grade 5 students from Wilkinson school in my riding. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, today is a really special day. We have some wonderful guests. You may have seen them on the national news last night. They’re women and girls with Up With Women. Last night, we saw in the news powerful stories of resilient and strong moms who used to be homeless, as told by their very brave kids.

I’m proud to welcome Helen Vozinov and her daughters Angelina and Gabriela, Kimberley Niles and her daughter Destinee Simon, Lola Lawson and her son Livity Lawson-Bernard, Doina Oncel and her daughter Sarah Brindusha Cisse, Benya Arroyave, and the director of Up With Women, Lia Grimanis. Welcome all. We’re delighted you’re here.

Hon. Kevin Daniel Flynn: Today we’re joined by two retired Toronto police detectives. Please welcome to Queen’s Park Deborah Vittie-Pagliaro and Suzanne Kernohan, who are joining me for lunch today.

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Please help me welcome, in the public gallery, grade 10 students from St. Augustine Catholic High School, from the great riding of Oak Ridges–Markham.

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I would like to welcome to the members’ gallery this morning Lindsay Stevenson, my brand new LA.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Further introductions? I’m not sure if the member from Renfrew—further introductions?

This morning, I missed something that I would normally do every Monday when this happens. This week, the House will be paying tribute to a deceased member, Mr. Leo Jordan, and I would refer our prayers during Monday to the repose of the soul of Mr. Jordan.

It is now time for question period.

Oral Questions

Government accountability

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Last Thursday, hundreds of families of autistic children came to Queen’s Park to ask for help; I should be asking about that. Last month, I learned about the closing of 16 beds and the cutting of 35 jobs at Orillia Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital; I should be asking about that. It’s Mining Week, and the government still hasn’t invested a cent into northern Ontario’s Ring of Fire; I should be asking about that.

But unfortunately, for a record fifth time, the government is being investigated by the OPP, so I have to ask about that. How has the Premier allowed five OPP investigations to take place under her watch? How is it possible that not a single member of her cabinet or her staff has taken responsibility?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the decisions that we have made around investment in energy and investment in electricity, we have made very different decisions than the Leader of the Opposition would have made. I absolutely understand that.

When we came into office, the energy system in Ontario, the electricity system, was degraded. It needed investments—

Mr. John Yakabuski: That’s false.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: It absolutely is not false, Mr. Speaker. The fact is, we have invested in over 10,000 lines across this province, kilometres of line across this province. We have shut down the last of the coal-fired plants. We’ve invested in renewables, and we have a clean electricity grid as a result of that: no smog days, a reduction in the pollutants in the air. We’ve made very different decisions than the opposition would have.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Again to the Premier: I asked a question about needing some level of apology or contrition on five OPP investigations into this government on the watch of this Premier, and all I get is an example of deflection and dodging at its best.

Mr. Speaker, I’ll be a bit more specific. When Trillium Power Wind did a freedom-of-information search, looking for numerous documents back and forth with the Premier and the Cabinet Office on the offshore wind project, they turned up zero—not a single document. In fact, between the fall of 2010 and February 11, 2011, there was numerous correspondence. Unfortunately, all the correspondence on the government’s side completely disappeared.

My question is, were those documents deleted, double-deleted, or did the Liberals cancel the offshore wind program on a whim to save their own seats?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: First of all, when the Leader of the Opposition is talking about the Premier’s office, I will remind him that I became Premier in 2013—just as a reminder of the chronology. As I have said in this House, I was not aware of any investigation until the media reports. If we are contacted, we will, as always, co-operate fully.

We have made changes. We have made changes in the way we deal with documents in this government. Under my watch, we have new rules in place, including mandatory record-keeping rules and staff training. The accountability act prohibits the wilful deletion of records and creates a penalty. In fact, we worked very closely with the Information and Privacy Commissioner of the time to make sure we got it right. We implemented her recommendations as we put new rules in place.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: Since the Premier has referenced the privacy commissioner, let me note that the 2013 report of the privacy commissioner detailed the deletion of the emails in the gas plant scandal. The report said that the Minister of Energy’s chief of staff confessed to deleting all the emails. At the time, this was seen as an unethical attempt to hide evidence of the gas plant scandal from the public.

Trillium’s lawsuit now proves the Liberals didn’t just delete evidence from the gas plant scandal; they also deleted evidence from the cancellation of the offshore wind program.

These could be key pieces of evidence in Trillium’s lawsuit, and if Trillium wins, the people of Ontario could be on the hook for $500 million.

My question is: Will the Premier explain to the people of Ontario and this Legislature why they should pay for the potential illegal activities of this government?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I will just say again to the Leader of the Opposition that when I came into this office, we changed the rules around record-keeping. I will read from the Information and Privacy Commissioner’s report—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Come to order. Next step: individuals.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I will read from the Information and Privacy Commissioner’s annual report from June 2014. What was said there:

“I have appreciated the co-operation I have received from Premier Kathleen Wynne ... the Premier issued a directive in accordance with the recommendations made in the report and committed the government to greater transparency and accountability.... In addition, political staff received in-depth training on record retention responsibilities. I applaud these developments.”

Government accountability

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. This government runs self-congratulatory radio ads at the same time as closing hospital beds. They kick kids off—

Interjections.

Mr. Steve Clark: The truth hurts over there.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You’re not helping.

Please finish.

Mr. Patrick Brown: They kick kids off the autism treatment wait-list just to make the list look smaller. At the same time, they add them to another wait-list. They cancelled the gas plants at a cost of $1 billion just to save a few seats. They cancelled offshore wind projects in Liberal-held ridings. Now the evidence has been deleted—again.

It’s been a while since the Liberals were looking out for the best interests of Ontario. Because of that, life has gotten harder in Ontario.

My question to the Premier is, does every decision this government makes need to be about their own political survival?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We’ll talk about the initiatives that we are involved in, and that includes investing billions of dollars in infrastructure across this province. We’re in year three of a $160-billion investment, over 12 years, in infrastructure. That’s roads, bridges, transit, hospitals, schools and universities.

We are in the process of putting in place a climate change policy, a cap-and-trade system that is going to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We only have to look around the world to recognize that climate change is the single most important threat that we are facing as a globe—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Now that I’ve got quiet to make sure that I don’t have to be too loud, the member from Leeds–Grenville, come to order.

You have one wrap-up sentence.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We are investing in the post-secondary education of the young people of this province in a way that has not been done before.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Back to the Premier: Last week, we learned of the fifth OPP investigation into the Liberal government. This time, the government is accused of deleting key evidence in a $500-million lawsuit. The Premier claimed that she knew nothing about it until the media reported it. But Trillium’s lawyer, Morris Cooper, doubts that could be possible. He’s quoted in an

article in the Ottawa Citizen by David Reevely that he spoke to the government lawyers about it several times.

Speaker, we’re not talking about a nuisance lawsuit here. We’re talking about a lawsuit that has the taxpayers at risk for half a billion dollars. Will the Premier admit to the Legislature that she was aware of it, or is the normal way of doing business in her government just deletions, denials and cover-ups?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated. The member will withdraw.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have been very clear that I knew nothing about the investigation until I read about it in the media. The Attorney General has sent a statement to the Ottawa Citizen. If the member opposite has further questions, we can absolutely make sure that he gets a copy of that statement.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: At a half a billion dollars, she should have known about it.

Thanks to David Livingston and Laura Miller, we now know that all evidence in the Premier’s office and cabinet office about the Trillium project was wiped away. What about the other ministries—energy and environment? According to the Trillium lawsuit, in January 2011, just two weeks before the offshore wind program was cancelled, the government decided to give the offshore wind file a code name. It’s no surprise, Mr. Speaker, since they called the gas plant file Project Vapour.

What’s shocking is that this government gave orders to “purge all emails, records and documents except for Ohio and Sweden.”

Will the Premier tell us what code name was assigned to the offshore wind file, and will she release all the documents saved under that code name?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As I said, I knew nothing about this investigation until I read about it in the media. It is an investigation that is taking place outside of this Legislature, as it rightly should.

I will read from the statement that was sent to the media last week by the Attorney General: “The only information we have is what we have read in the media and if what we have read is accurate, you should address any questions you have to either the OPP, who have been quoted as saying they are investigating this matter, or to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada (PPSC), whose counsel has been quoted as saying they have not received any disclosure on this.”

Mr. Speaker, I would advise the same to the member opposite and I would then again refer back to my earlier answer, which is, we have instituted training. We have instituted changes in terms of the—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Yes, but you wrote the code names.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Nipissing, second time.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Dodge, deflect, deny, delete—oh, sorry.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Being sorry is not really meaningful if you continue to do it.

New question.

Nurses

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. More than 1,440 nurses have been fired since January 2015. With those kinds of cuts, it’s no wonder that health care is the silent crisis of this government.

This morning, I stood with nurses from Toronto to call for an immediate moratorium to nursing cuts in Ontario. On the first day of Nursing Week, will the Premier agree to stop firing nurses?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care is going to want to comment.

I want to acknowledge the nurses and nursing students who are here today. Nurses obviously play an essential role in our health care system. What the leader of the third party doesn’t talk about is the nurses, who have been hired, because there are two sides to this equation.

There are more than 26,000 more nurses in our system than there were in 2003, and that includes 11,000 registered nurses. I know there has been a distinction made between different kinds of nurses. The reality is, there are more nurses now in our system, whether they’re registered or whether they are RPNs, than there were in 2003. There’s a clear trend line in terms of an increase in nurses in the system.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The trend line is 1,440 nurses fired since January of last year.

People across Ontario know that nurses are there to care for them—nurses like the ones from Windsor who have made the long drive to Queen’s Park to be in the gallery this morning. When people are at their most vulnerable, Speaker, they count on nurses to be there for them.

After four years where hospitals didn’t receive a single increase, and now with increases failing to match inflation or a growing population, hospitals are being cut yet again. For the last 16 months, that meant 90 nurses a month—three nurses a day—being fired, over 1,400 of them since the start of 2015 alone.

Will this Premier agree that no more nurses in Ontario should be fired?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I also want to thank our nurses who are here, our RNs, and also welcome the RNAO report that came out this morning, which provides us with exceptional guidance on the way forward and how we need to look at the nursing mix and the contribution that our nurses make across this province.

Mr. Speaker, it is important to set the record straight, because we can’t look at gross changes like the third party wants to do; we need to look at the net changes of nurses in this province. In every single category of nurses, whether it’s RNs, RPNs or nurse practitioners, we’ve seen, since 2003, an increase to date of every single—whether you measure it on a per capita basis or the absolute number of nurses, there are more nurses—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —every category working in this province since 2003, and that continues today. I’m exceptionally proud of that, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: The way you thank nurses is certainly not to fire them. It’s actually to make sure that they can keep their jobs. That’s how you thank them.

The minister can talk about 2003 all he wants. I’m talking about what’s happened in the last 16 months in this province, and that is 1,440 nurses fired by this government.

After four years of cuts, if anything, Ontario doesn’t—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Sorry. The member from Durham, come to order.

Mr. John Yakabuski: He’s not even in his seat, Speaker. He’s not in his seat.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I thought you apologized.

Leader?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, after four years of cuts, if anything, Ontario doesn’t have enough nurses. There’s an old saying that if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging.

Patients have watched as nurses have been fired across Ontario. But let’s be clear: Fewer nurses doesn’t improve health care for people; it hurts patient care. Will the Premier instruct her minister to issue a directive today to stop firing nurses in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I implore the leader of the third party to begin talking about the whole change in the nursing sector. There are from time to time nurses who, because of a variety of reasons where the jobs are lost—but other nurses are hired. She doesn’t have to believe me—and I would ask all nurses who are listening to this, and others concerned, to look at the College of Nurses of Ontario. It’s all there for everybody to see. You’ll see, in the past year, that there were 2,799 additional nursing positions across all nursing categories.

In the last four years, from 2011 to 2015, there were net increases in nursing positions in our hospitals. The majority of those new hires, those net increases, were RNs.

Nurses

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My second question is also for the Premier. As I mentioned, nurses from Windsor are joining us here today. Under the Premier’s watch, Windsor Regional Hospital is grappling with a $20-million budget shortfall.

In January, the hospital announced that 166 jobs would be cut. Now, in fact, we know that 169 registered nurses’ positions will be eliminated.

Will the Premier make that basic commitment today to stop forcing hospitals, like Windsor regional, to cut front-line nursing positions?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I would just go back to what the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care just said, which is that between 2011 and 2015, the reality is that most net new nursing positions in the hospital sector were filled by registered nurses, which I know is one of the issues that the leader of the third party has been concerned about.

Mr. Speaker, we heard hospitals’ concerns about the fact that they hadn’t seen increases. That’s why there’s 345 million new dollars going into hospital funding as a result of our budget. That’s in the context of a billion dollars of new funding going into the health care system. We understand that there was a need for that, and we look forward to continuing to work with our hospitals, as they work with all of the community providers, and as we transform the health care system so that it meets the needs of the people in this province today and into the future.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the Liberals have been cutting hospitals to the bone and they’ve been doing that for years and years: 1,440 nursing positions have been cut over the past 16 months; hospitals across this province are making deep cuts to nursing care to respond to the cuts that the Liberals are making to their budgets.

Since January, hospitals in Kitchener, Hamilton, Ottawa, Toronto and Windsor have all been forced by this Premier and this government to cut nurses. Let’s be perfectly clear: We cannot afford to lay off another nurse in this province. Whether you’re a registered nurse, a registered practical nurse or a nurse practitioner, no more nurses should be handed a pink slip in this province.

Will the Premier do the right thing and issue a directive that no more nurses will be fired in Ontario?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Again, we need to talk about net changes, because as programs disappear, even as nurses move from one part of the hospital to another part of the hospital, necessarily layoffs have to occur. But in many, if not most cases, those individuals are rehired. In the case of Windsor, they are undergoing a skill mix review and some changes. Windsor is one of the very few hospitals remaining in Ontario that has a 100% RN workforce.

I just don’t subscribe to the view of the leader of the third party that our RPNs, our registered practical nurses, have no value or have no value in our hospitals. I don’t subscribe to that view. I believe that sometimes there is a role and it’s up to the hospital administrations, based on good evidence and directing their administrations to focus on the quality of care and outcomes, that that skill mix needs to be determined.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Instead of throwing mud, this minister should look at the thousands of petitions that are going to be tabled in this House today, because he is firing nurses; the hospitals are firing nurses. That’s why they’re here on Nursing Week, Speaker, to say, “stop firing the nurses in this province.”

For Ontarians, the health of their family is their number one concern, and so it should be, but it should also be the number one concern of this Premier. Ontarians deserve a government that is committed to making sure that the health care system is there for them when they need it. But that’s impossible when the government keeps firing nurses.

Why won’t this Premier and her Minister of Health face up to the silent crisis that they are creating in the health care system and put a stop to nursing cuts right here and right now?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: Well, Mr. Speaker, for the member opposite, the leader of the third party, to somehow suggest that we are doing the opposite of what we are doing—we have increased the number of RNs in this province in the last decade by 11,000.

But you need to look at the net changes. You need to look at the net changes. For example, when the NDP were in power—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Finish, Minister, please.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: When the NDP were in power, the net change, from beginning to end of their relatively short period of time in government—3,000 registered nursing positions were lost. The percentage of nurses that were working full-time was reduced under the NDP. We’ve done the opposite. However you want to measure it, I’m proud of that record. It’s worth it: investing in our nurses, the front line. They do the most important work—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Start the clock. Thank you.

New question.

Sexual harassment

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to Premier. When it comes to remaining silent on workplace harassment, the government’s ad campaign says, “It’s never okay.” In last Friday’s Niagara Falls Review, we now learn that a former female employee of Kim Craitor said she was bound by a non-disclosure agreement. When asked about the harassment allegations made against Craitor, she said, “I just can’t say any more about this.”

Can the Premier tell us: Was the non-disclosure agreement tied to the settlement of the sexual harassment complaint, or are these women free to come forward to tell their stories?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: As the member opposite knows, one of the women did come forward and talk to the media, which is why I then made a statement.

I have made tackling the issue of sexual violence and harassment a priority. When I have been faced with an issue of sexual harassment, I’ve led by example. I made a statement on Friday: If a sexual harassment complaint is made against a Liberal MPP, an independent investigation is undertaken, and if that independent investigation determines that serious misconduct has occurred, then that MPP will no longer serve in my caucus.

In that process, there are confidentiality issues that arise. I was not prepared, until one of the women had come forward, to breach that confidentiality. I would think that the member opposite would understand—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Before you do—stop the clock—I believe I heard something very unparliamentary, but I could not assign the person. I hope it doesn’t happen again.

Please finish.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Back to the Premier: I would be shocked if the Premier’s office were found to have muzzled victims of sexual harassment, but the media does beg the question.

It looks like the silence that the Premier has obtained is not meant to protect victims; it’s meant to protect the Premier. If I’m wrong, then Michelle Tavano and all the other victims would be free to tell their stories.

It is a sad day for women in this province to learn that the Premier will do anything to save her own political career. So Mr. Speaker—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Deputy House leader, second time. Come to order.

Please finish.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Mr. Speaker, when it comes to silencing the voices of victims, why is it never okay, except when you’re the Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, let me just say that if the member opposite thinks that requiring that an MPP being removed from office protects me and protects my party, then she doesn’t understand how politics works.

It is the complainant and the victim’s choice whether they retain confidentiality, Mr. Speaker. Again, I would say to the member opposite that I would think she would understand that in order to create an environment where people feel free to come forward, they need to know that their complaint will be confidential. Quite frankly, I would say that there has not been an environment in our culture that would promote the coming forward by people who have been sexually assaulted or sexually harassed. It is my responsibility to create an environment so that more people will come forward, and confidentiality and the respect for confidentiality are part of that.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Thank you.

New question.

Sexual harassment

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is to the Premier. On Friday, the Premier revealed that she asked former MPP Kim Craitor to resign because of allegations of sexual harassment. In response, Craitor said, “I do know that the party paid them”—meaning the victims—“to keep the allegations quiet, and had them sign a non-disclosure agreement not to talk.”

A former staffer in the MPP’s office has confirmed that she was bound by non-disclosure. Women should not be forced to go public with allegations of sexual harassment but they should not be muzzled either.

Did the Premier require the complainant to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and did she pay her to keep quiet about the allegations?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Mr. Speaker, I have to say I am really surprised by both of these questions. I really think that these questions demean—

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: No, I do. I think that they demean the experience of women who make complaints.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order, please. Someone is tiptoeing around a request that I’ve made many times about using names. Thank you.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: When a complainant suggests that a confidentiality agreement be part of a resolution, then of course we agree to that, Mr. Speaker. I respect—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh, that was their suggestion?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I respect that right of victims to ask for confidentiality, Mr. Speaker. I spoke out on Friday because one of the women in this particular case—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington, come to order.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: —came forward and spoke to the media. That is why I made the statement that I did. But, otherwise, I was respecting the agreement of confidentiality that was in place.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: An editorial today rightly points out that secrecy about sexual violence and harassment does not serve the public good. Rather, it signals to victims that there’s something to be ashamed of. Requiring victims to keep quiet, making them sign non-disclosure agreements and paying them for their silence does nothing to help survivors heal. Instead, it often protects perpetrators, and in this case it prevents embarrassment to the Liberal Party.

Again to the Premier: Were victims paid to keep quiet about allegations of sexual—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Minister of Education, second time. Member from Durham, second time.

Please finish.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: If so, who ordered the payoffs and where did the money come from?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: The confidentiality agreements that were in place were mutually agreed upon. I’m going to read from our policy because I don’t know whether the opposition parties have workplace discrimination and harassment prevention policies that they operate by, Mr. Speaker, but I’m going to read from ours. The

section on confidentiality says, “This policy recognizes that it can be difficult for a complainant to bring forward a concern of discrimination or harassment. Individuals making a complaint of discrimination or harassment are assured during that investigation and consideration of a complaint and following its resolution all information relating to the complaint will remain confidential. However, both complainants and respondents must have access to sufficient information about the allegations and responses of other parties and witnesses to allow for a fair and effective participation in the resolution process.”

That’s the process that we followed, and I am not prepared to breach the confidentiality of victims and revictimize them.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please. Start the clock.

New question?

School accommodation

Mr. Han Dong: My question is for the Minister of Education—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. If it happens again when I sit down, I’ll deal with the individual.

The member from Trinity–Spadina.

Mr. Han Dong: Thank you, Speaker.

My question is for Minister of Education. Investing in our youngest learners has always been a priority of our government. In the 2014 Ontario budget, the province made a commitment to invest $750 million over four years to support school capital projects that reduce excess space.

Last year, the province announced $120 million over three years in new funding dedicated to building safe, high-quality licensed child care spaces in our schools across the province.

Minister, last Friday you made an announcement about funding for new projects under these programs. Speaker, through you to the minister, can she tell this House about the new and renovated school infrastructure announced last week?

Hon. Liz Sandals: I want to thank the member for Trinity–Spadina for the question. Every year, Ontario funds local school infrastructure projects to provide students with better places to learn and give young children and their families increased access to safe, high-quality licensed child care in schools.

Over the past few weeks, I’ve had the pleasure of visiting various communities in Ontario and making capital announcements. On Friday, we did the wrap-up and announced that this year Ontario is investing $137 million to build new schools, expand or renovate existing schools and create new child care spaces across the province. This year, that adds up to 20 such projects including four new schools and 16 additions and retrofits.

Additionally, families in Toronto, Kingsville and Oshawa will benefit through the construction of 19 new, custom-built child care—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Han Dong: Minister, it’s great to hear that our government continues to improve learning environments for our students. We know that schools are hubs for our communities. They are spaces where children gather to learn and play and for programs that benefit children, families and communities. I know students and parents in my riding of Trinity–Spadina are excited to have the funding approved for St. Raymond Catholic School and an addition added to St. Luke Catholic School.

Minister, can you tell us how a project qualifies for capital funding under this program?

Hon. Liz Sandals: These projects are actually part of the largest investment in public infrastructure in the province’s history—about $160 billion over 12 years. That will support 110,000 jobs every year across the province with projects such as roads, bridges, transit systems, schools and hospitals.

In terms of qualifying for the funding, we consider funding projects under the School Consolidation Capital program that allow a board to reduce their excess capacity. Projects need to generate sufficient savings to warrant the investment in new space or renovated space and, where required, need to have completed the corresponding accommodation review.

Our government is very proud to invest in these capital projects that bring students and communities together and provide better buildings.

Government services

Mr. Jim McDonell: To the Minister of Government and Consumer Services: The minister, like his colleagues, has an obligation to ensure in-person services at ServiceOntario outlets are there for Ontarians who need them. Instead, he plans to close nine ServiceOntario outlets, forcing residents in my riding and other rural communities to drive long distances to get the services their tax dollars pay for.

The minister doesn’t appear to be making any attempt to guarantee in-person interaction in local communities. Decisions over planning, agriculture, energy and others have left small-town rural Ontario behind. Is this just the latest cut, just another scheme to make Ontarians pay for your government’s mismanagement?

Hon. David Orazietti: I appreciate the question from the member opposite and obviously understand his concern. This is a very important issue, as ServiceOntario conducts about 50 million transactions each year, Speaker.

We are proposing to continue to maintain 277 offices across the province. The one the individual is referring to, in fact, has one staff person in it, and there are a number of alternative locations. We wanted to make sure that customers in Ontario and all Ontarians would have good quality service. In fact, customer satisfaction surveys indicate about 98% are very satisfied with the service.

We are also moving more services online, Speaker. More than 40 services are online right now and we continue to see an increase in that area.

I’m happy to add more in the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jim McDonell: While he may want to cut costs, the minister has no excuse for cutting in-person services for Ontarians who can’t and shouldn’t be expected to drive to another county to get the service.

The Auditor General warned that the interest on this government’s reckless debt will crowd out public services. Is this what the Auditor General warned us about, or will the minister commit to preserving its existing in-person public services in rural Ontario?

Hon. David Orazietti: There obviously continue to be services in rural Ontario and these areas. This was a very thoughtful approach. I know it’s difficult, but it was one that was evaluated and analyzed for well over a year to determine how we could modernize and make more efficient the services delivered through our ministry. We continue to take a responsible approach in this regard.

Guiding principles in these decisions were preserving the quality of customer service and ensuring that the capacity could be absorbed in surrounding areas that are no more than 28 kilometres away in every location. Those top three services—driver’s licence renewal, val tag stickers and health cards—will continue to be available in all of these surrounding locations.

This is, I know, a difficult decision that we’ve had to make in our ministry. It’s part of our modernization for ServiceOntario, and we continue to see more services online.

Energy policies

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Instead of fixing Hydro One so that it delivers affordable, secure and green power for all Ontarians, this government has prioritized making money for shareholders, while at the same time driving up rates for customers.

Last Friday, it was announced that Hydro One shareholders will be paid more than $36 million in dividends. On May 1, electricity prices in the province went up yet again. This is the eighth time in a row that rates have gone up by more than 9% over the previous year.

Speaker, my question is simple: When will this government start putting the interests of Ontarians first?

Hon. Charles Sousa: I appreciate the question. I think the member opposite fails to recognize that the majority of that dividend is for the people of Ontario, for the taxpayers. We’re the major shareholder, Mr. Speaker. As a result of the improvements that we’ve made to this corporation, it now operates more effectively, the dividends are increasing and, contrary to what the member actually stated earlier, this deal is in fact better for the people of Ontario, better for the ratepayers in the end, as we reinvest where necessary.

At the same time, we’re reinvesting in new infrastructure that wouldn’t otherwise be available to us. They denied that opportunity, Mr. Speaker. We will not. We’re helping the people of Ontario and we’re investing to make it even better.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Ontarians don’t need to be convinced that this government is mismanaging the electricity file. Some 85% of Ontarians want the province to stop the sell-off of Hydro One—85%.

The Financial Accountability Officer says that the sell-off of Hydro One will make Ontario worse off by half a billion dollars a year, every year. Businesses say that sky-high electricity prices are damping down growth in this province, and the OPP is once again—once again, Speaker—investigating the government for deleted documents over the cancellation of a multi-million-dollar energy contract.

Speaker, when will this government stop making Ontarians pay the price for its short-sighted and self-serving actions?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Further to the Minister of Finance’s answer, what I think the member fails to realize is that, of the proceeds that came from the IPO, $5 billion goes towards reducing the province’s debt. We are reducing our interest payments already by $100 million a year as a result of this transaction. So not only are we getting investments for infrastructure in the Trillium Trust, we’re also bettering our fiscal position by reducing the interest we pay on our debt by $100 million a year. As we do the next tranches, the reduction in interest payments will be higher. So we’re very, very happy with a better-run company.

We are also providing many mitigating programs for people, including tax deductions, which represent—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question.

Aboriginal children and youth

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: My question is to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs. Last week, we recognized Children’s Mental Health Week in Ontario. Now, more than ever, the well-being of the indigenous children, youth and families is in the spotlight. Indigenous communities in Ontario face challenges in accessing supports for mental health, child welfare, specialized services and youth justice.

I understand that our government is working with First Nation, Métis, Inuit and urban indigenous partners to develop a strategy to support indigenous children and youth in Ontario.

Through you to the minister, Speaker: Would the minister please tell us how our government is engaging with indigenous partners in the development of this strategy?

Hon. David Zimmer: Speaker, our government is committed to helping First Nation, Métis, Inuit and urban indigenous children in Ontario get the best possible start in life. That’s why the work that we are doing together with the First Nation partners on the Ontario Indigenous Children and Youth Strategy is now more urgent than ever.

In fact, last week, during Children’s Mental Health Week, I had the pleasure of joining the Minister of Children and Youth Services for a very important round table with First Nation leaders from across Ontario, including First Nation youth. We heard from First Nation leaders and youth about the tragedies, the challenges and the solutions to these issues.

The involvement of First Nation leaders and youth is the key to the development of our strategy. It ensures that they have a voice in the development of community-driven, integrated and culturally appropriate supports for First Nation youth and their families here in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Ann Hoggarth: Thank you, Minister, for that response.

My supplementary question is for the Minister of Children and Youth Services. It’s great to hear about the hard work that the ministers are doing to improve outcomes for indigenous children and youth in Ontario. I would like to thank both ministers for their leadership in bringing First Nations leaders to discuss how we can work together to develop solutions to these important issues.

I understand that the work our government is doing to address jurisdiction over child care is just one part of the Ontario Indigenous Children and Youth Strategy. Can the Minister of Children and Youth Services tell us more about the significance of last week’s round table meeting with First Nations leaders?

Hon. David Zimmer: Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I want to thank the member from Barrie for this very important question. Last week’s round table did highlight the many ways we’re working across our government to improve the mental health and well-being of First Nations children, youth and their families.

One of the topics we talked about was the need for a critical path forward on advancing jurisdiction on child welfare, which our government is committed to, working with our partners and the federal government on this. Honouring First Nations’ jurisdiction over the well-being of children is a vital step going forward in this process. That’s why jurisdiction over child care is one of the pillars of our government’s Ontario Indigenous Children and Youth Strategy.

It’s also why we will also be engaging with Métis, urban indigenous and Inuit partners to develop solutions to the unique challenges that they, too, face in addressing issues surrounding child welfare.

Sexual harassment

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to the Premier. The former employee of Kim Craitor told the media, “I just can’t say any more about this.” The Premier said she disclosed Kim Craitor’s name because this woman came forward.

Will the Premier set aside the non-disclosure agreement and allow Michelle Tavano to tell her story?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Again, as I said, the woman came forward, and she is free to talk and to tell her story as she sees fit. Confidentiality agreements that are in place are mutual, Mr. Speaker. I am not prepared to breach a confidentiality agreement.

I’m trying to create an environment where people feel free to come forward and where, when they tell me or they tell someone in our government or they undergo an investigation and they are assured of confidentiality, that confidentiality is kept in place.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Laurie Scott: It’s clear that Michelle Tavano wants to tell her story. I’m sure the Premier would encourage all women who want to speak to tell their stories. Is Michelle Tavano free to tell her story without fear of being sued or having to pay the money back?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Well, Mr. Speaker, you know, the—

Mr. John Yakabuski: Just answer the question.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, second time.

Interjection: Third time.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I don’t need any other armchair quarterbacks, either.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: My first concern is for the victims in these situations.

Interjections.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I hear the heckling from the other side, but it’s actually quite the contrary. My concern is for the victims. My concern is for the people whose lives have been so negatively affected by these situations. It is up to the victims. It is up to them what they choose to talk about publicly or not.

Mr. Speaker, I will always respect the confidentiality of the victims. I will not engage in a process that will revictimize them. I would have thought that the member opposite would have felt the same—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Member from Lanark, come to order—second time.

New question.

Autism treatment

Miss Monique Taylor: My question is to the Premier. On Sunday, an editorial was published telling the Premier that the way she’s reducing the wait-list for autism therapy is “all wrong.” This decision has left parents devastated. Hopes for their children have been crushed. The editorial argues that kids already on the wait-list and in the program should get the treatment they need and they were promised because it’s the right thing to do and the fair thing to do. I believe the Premier knows it. Capping treatment based on age is not only wrong, but it’s discriminatory, as former Liberal Premier McGuinty once said.

Will the Premier do the right thing and immediately remove the age cap for children receiving access to intensive behavioural therapy?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Children and Youth Services is going to want to comment.

I had the opportunity, when I was in Ottawa last week, to meet with members from the Alliance Against the Ontario Autism Program, which is one of the groups that has been talking to us over the last number of days. I had an opportunity to talk about how this change is intended and is being implemented in order to get children—whether they just started getting service or whether they’ve been sitting on a waiting list for years and haven’t had any service, to get them the right intensity of service, to move them into service right away.

That is the whole point of this, because it is unconscionable that we would keep kids on a waiting list and not getting service when we have the opportunity to move them into the right level, get them an assessment and help them through that transition so they’ll get a tailor-made program for themselves.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Miss Monique Taylor: Speaker, this Premier is moving them from one list onto another. That’s what’s unconscionable. It’s not just parents who are concerned; it’s experts, too. The school boards are wondering how they will support an influx of autistic kids who haven’t received therapy. As the editorial states, “To suddenly strip children and families of the hope to which they have clung, sometimes for years, is too cruel a way to save money....” Speaker, I agree. It’s cruel to try to balance the books on the backs of kids with ASD.

Another

article about autism changes says that in this Premier’s Ontario, it “has become abundantly clear some ... special interests are far more important than others.”

Will the Premier finally admit that she got this one wrong? Will she remove the age cap from children with ASD receiving evidence-based, intensive therapy immediately?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Children and Youth Services.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: Well, from the same articles I’ve read, from talking to groups and experts and parent groups, there is a lot of agreement. There is agreement that $333 million is a wonderful, historic investment. There is agreement that the 16,000 new spaces for children with ASD are very important.

It’s very important—and I encourage, again, the opposition to be very clear on what they’re saying, because we are not removing children from the IBI wait-list into nothing. They are currently, unfortunately, not getting service and they will get service immediately with the payment of the $8,000.

As for schools, the Minister of Education is very actively engaged on this file. We already have children with ASD in schools and we have programs and services to support them.

Is there more to do? Yes. In fact, I’m meeting with the minister tomorrow.

Poverty

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: My question is for the minister responsible for the Poverty Reduction Strategy. I know that the Local Poverty Reduction Fund, or LPRF, is an important component of our government’s renewed Poverty Reduction Strategy. The LPRF funds community organizations providing innovative and local solutions to poverty in their area.

I read in the budget that last year, the LPRF funded an impressive 41 projects in 20 communities across our province, meaning that hundreds of lives are being impacted with locally based solutions—an exciting number to see.

However, I wanted to know more about the projects that were supported through the LPRF. Speaker, through you to the minister: Can you tell us more about the Local Poverty Reduction Fund and what kinds of initiatives were supported through the first round of funding?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Thank you to the member for Burlington for the question and her ongoing commitment to this issue.

The Local Poverty Reduction Fund invests in initiatives that help break the cycle of poverty for children and youth, increase employment and end homelessness in Ontario.

One such great example is Up With Women. Up With Women is one of the organizations that received a grant from the first round of local poverty reduction funding. They’re here today and they starred in the national news last night. They’re all about helping recently homeless and at-risk women build sustainable, empowering careers with the goal of helping them permanently exit poverty.

Today they’ve joined us. We celebrate them. I celebrate them on Mother’s Day. Since working with Up With Women, these moms have been able to access supports and transition—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Supplementary.

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: I’d like to thank the minister for her answer. I’m delighted to hear that Ontario is investing in front-line community organizations like Up With Women—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: I would also like to welcome our guests here today. We applaud you for all of the challenging things that you’ve done and for the exciting work you’re doing now. We are so pleased to welcome you to Queen’s Park.

I’m also very pleased to hear that the first round of funding for the LPRF has distributed funding to such valuable programs. But I know too that the fund is a six-year, $50-million total investment. There is definitely more to come.

Minister, I know that all members of this House are interested in the fund’s potential for their communities, so could you please share with us when the next round of funding will be available and how interested organizations can apply?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Information on the second round of the local poverty reduction funding is available on the Ontario Trillium Foundation website and on ontario.ca/povertyreduction. We’ll be accepting proposals until early June.

For this year’s round of funding, we’re dedicating up to $10 million total targeted for projects related to homelessness. The dedicated funding will help reach this government’s bold goal of ending chronic homelessness in 10 years.

We’ve also dedicated at least $2 million in this round to support projects in indigenous communities and by indigenous-led organizations. I want to say thank you to my parliamentary assistant, the member from Newmarket–Aurora, for his work in engaging with a variety of indigenous leaders and community members on how to make the application process more accessible and ensure that the program is more responsive to indigenous communities.

Social Assistance Management System

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. The minister’s office was informed that her seamless rollout of SAMS was flawed from the get-go, but she plowed ahead anyway. She inflicted chaos on the system, chaos that came with a hefty price tag of almost $300 million. Now municipalities and service providers have been left to foot the bill for significant overtime costs, extra staff to handle the problems with SAMS and, in some cases, even new equipment in order to run SAMS.

Municipalities are not responsible for paying for this government’s mistakes. Will this minister finally take responsibility for the SAMS disaster and reimburse municipalities for their expenses?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: As I’ve said many times in this House, we do acknowledge that the rollout of SAMS posed many, many challenges for front-line staff. I want to take the opportunity yet again—and I met some just last Friday, actually, in terms of the challenges that they faced and they worked very diligently through those challenges. Of course, as the member has alluded to, I was given assurances that, in fact, we would not be facing those types of challenges.

However, as he is referencing assistance to municipalities: To date, we have helped municipalities with an additional payment of some $15 million to assist them through the transition, and I know that this has made a great deal of difference to those municipalities.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: The money that the government has already provided comes nowhere close to meeting the need. Brantford and Brant county require $600,000 to cover the problematic rollout of SAMS. Ottawa has estimated they need $4 million. In Waterloo region, the costs add up to more than $1 million. Hamilton needs at least $820,000. Stratford passed a resolution calling for a permanent fix to SAMS, as they estimate they spent $175,000 in the months after SAMS release. And the list just keeps going. It has come to the point where legal action is being considered to recoup these expenses.

Will the minister do the right thing and reimburse municipalities and their taxpayers, or is she going to add millions in legal fees to the massive SAMS bill?

Hon. Helena Jaczek: Of course, we’ve been having ongoing discussions and conversations with municipalities, including the ones that the member referenced. I’m in ongoing discussion with those particular locations and the dialogue continues.

Apart from the $15 million that I referenced earlier, we are looking very specifically at those centres. If they have some additional costs, I know that I and my officials are very open to looking at their particular concerns. In fact, it was the city of Brantford where I visited early on, and I was pleased to have the opportunity to talk to front-line workers in that city. They did have some particular difficulties that were unique to their location. The conversations will definitely continue and we will try and see what we can do to mitigate their concerns as we go forward.

Just one last piece: I think we all remember that the SDMT situation introduced by that party cost—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

New question?

Huronia Regional Centre for the Developmentally Disabled

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: My question is to the Premier. In December 2013, the Premier apologized to the survivors of Huronia and said, “We will protect the memory of all those who have suffered, help to tell their stories, and ensure that the lessons of this time are not lost.”

Yet in discussions on the future of Huronia, the survivors have been left out. The Premier’s apology is empty words if the survivors of Huronia are not part of these discussions. How can the survivors expect to be consulted about the future of the Huronia property when last fall the government did an investigation of the sewage pipes of the institution’s cemetery and didn’t share the results with the survivors?

I’ve had several conversations with the Minister of Economic Development and received no answers. They want to know if any bodies were disturbed in the cemetery. Will the Premier commit to honouring the survivors and engage with them in discussions about the future of Huronia?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I appreciate the question from the member opposite. I had the opportunity to express to her last week that I’m very concerned that we do work with the survivors as any changes are made to this site. I think it’s a wonderful site. I visited it very early on when I was an MPP because I had constituents whose children had been there from the time they were two years old—and they were 50-year-old men when I visited them. So it was a very poignant visit that I made. That impressed upon me how important it is that, as we go forward, whatever happens with this site, we are very sensitive to the grounds and we’re very sensitive to the usage going forward.

We commit to working with the survivors. I know that there is a more involved discussion going on with people in the community who have ideas for how they’d like to see the site used in the future.

Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order, the member from Thornhill.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I just want to introduce in the members’ gallery Asphandiar—who is better known as Aspi—Wadiwalla, Jimmy Yu, Julia Cosby, Amira Hashaby, Sheref Sabawy and Daniela Chivu. Welcome and bienvenue.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Attorney General on a point of order.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the member from Ottawa Centre and the minister of public safety and corrections, I’d like to introduce in the gallery Mattias Falkner, Caroline Falkner and Beth Martin, who are here to watch page Benjamin Falkner.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Point of order, the member from Chatham–Kent–Essex.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: I’d like to take this opportunity to wish my wife, Dianne, a happy anniversary for putting up with me for 39 years.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Newmarket–Aurora on a point of order.

Mr. Chris Ballard: I’d like to welcome constituent Damien Walsh, father of page Leah Walsh, to Queen’s Park today.

Deferred Votes

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan Act (Strengthening Retirement Security for Ontarians), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario (sécuriser la retraite en Ontario)

Deferred vote on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 186,

An Act to establish the Ontario Retirement Pension Plan / Projet de loi 186, Loi établissant le Régime de retraite de la province de l’Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1142 to 1147.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): On April 20, 2016, Mr. Bradley moved second reading of Bill 186.

All those in favour, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Albanese, Laura

Anderson, Granville

Armstrong, Teresa J.

Baker, Yvan

Ballard, Chris

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Chan, Michael

Chiarelli, Bob

Colle, Mike

Coteau, Michael

Crack, Grant

Damerla, Dipika

Del Duca, Steven

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

DiNovo, Cheri

Dong, Han

Fife, Catherine

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fraser, John

French, Jennifer K.

Gates, Wayne

Gélinas, France

Gravelle, Michael

Gretzky, Lisa

Hatfield, Percy

Hoggarth, Ann

Horwath, Andrea

Hoskins, Eric

Hunter, Mitzie

Jaczek, Helena

Kiwala, Sophie

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Marie-France

Leal, Jeff

MacCharles, Tracy

Malhi, Harinder

Mangat, Amrit

Mantha, Michael

Martins, Cristina

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McGarry, Kathryn

McMahon, Eleanor

McMeekin, Ted

Meilleur, Madeleine

Milczyn, Peter Z.

Miller, Paul

Moridi, Reza

Murray, Glen R.

Naidoo-Harris, Indira

Natyshak, Taras

Orazietti, David

Potts, Arthur

Qaadri, Shafiq

Rinaldi, Lou

Sandals, Liz

Sattler, Peggy

Sousa, Charles

Tabuns, Peter

Takhar, Harinder S.

Taylor, Monique

Vanthof, John

Vernile, Daiene

Wong, Soo

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All those opposed, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Arnott, Ted

Bailey, Robert

Brown, Patrick

Clark, Steve

Coe, Lorne

Fedeli, Victor

Hardeman, Ernie

Harris, Michael

Hillier, Randy

Jones, Sylvia

MacLeod, Lisa

Martow, Gila

McDonell, Jim

McNaughton, Monte

Miller, Norm

Nicholls, Rick

Pettapiece, Randy

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Todd

Thompson, Lisa M.

Walker, Bill

Wilson, Jim

Yakabuski, John

Yurek, Jeff

The Clerk of the Assembly (Ms. Deborah Deller): The ayes are 68; the nays are 24.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I declare the motion carried.

Second reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Pursuant to the order of the House dated May 5, 2016, the bill is ordered referred to the Standing Committee on Social Policy.

There being no further deferred votes, this House stands recessed until 1 p.m. this afternoon.

The House recessed from 1151 to 1300.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Please join me in welcoming members of the Sikh Motorcycle Club of Ontario and their supporters. We have Manohar Singh Bal, Kanwaljit Kaur Singh, Jasbir Singh Saini, Varinder Kaur, Sawarn Singh, Bhupinder Kaur, Rampal Singh Dhillon, Gurmeet Singh Grewal, Bhupinder Singh, Sandeep Singh, Parvinder Singh, Jasbir Singh Hundal, Inderjit Singh Jagraon, Lakhvinder Singh, Bikram Singh Bal, and Jagdeep Singh.

And no, all these Singhs aren’t related to me directly, but they are my family by association. Please join me in welcoming them all to the assembly today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Further introductions?

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: I would like to welcome nurses from Windsor and Essex county today: Carol Ahpin, Karen Bertrand, Vicki McKenna, Jo-Dee Brown, Cheryl Colborne, Bruce Jewell, Sandy Kravets, Barb Marcolin, Barbara Porter, Veronika Pulley, Sherri Sherbo and Gwen Spencer-Giswein. They should be up in the gallery momentarily.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I want to rise to welcome members in the gallery who are here to honour the Battle of Monte Cassino.

Mr. John Vanthof: I’d like to welcome Monique Savage, Louise Decaen, Carmen Godin and Aline Savage. They’re here to watch the introduction of a petition they worked very hard on.

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: I would also like to welcome all of the members who are here on behalf of the Bramalea–Gore–Malton member. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Members’ Statements

Battle of Monte Cassino

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I rise today to honour the heroes of the Battle of Monte Cassino. The Battle of Monte Cassino, also known as the Battle for Rome, was one of the most important campaigns of the Second World War. Marked by outstanding military achievement in appalling conditions, the battles of Monte Cassino opened the road to Rome and the beginning of the end for the German occupation of Italy.

On May 18, 1944, Allied forces, including Canadians and the Polish Corps led by General Wladyslaw Anders, pushed on to Monte Cassino and raised their flag over the 1,400-year-old Benedictine abbey.

Today, with veterans and members of the Italian and Polish communities who are here with us at Queen’s Park, we commemorate the heroes of the Battle of Monte Cassino for their immense bravery and sacrifice.

Nurses

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: It’s my pleasure to rise today, on behalf of my community of Windsor West, on the first day of Nursing Week in Ontario. Our dedicated and professional nurses are critical to delivering the quality health care that people living in this province know and deserve. Today, I’m joined by some of these caregivers from my riding, and I thank them for taking the time to come to Queen’s Park.

While our front-line health care workers work hard every day to ensure our families stay healthy, the Liberal government’s underfunding of hospitals continues to make their jobs more difficult. This year, Windsor Regional Hospital announced that 169 nursing positions will be eliminated. This is equivalent to the loss of 330,000 hours of hands-on RN patient care per year. Aspiring nurses may be forced to seek out employment in the US, costing us our next generation of trained and dedicated caregivers in Ontario. These cuts will have a real impact on people in their most vulnerable moments.

Hospitals must not be forced to make decisions based on dollars and deficits. Nearly 10,000 caregivers, health care recipients and families in Windsor and Essex county signed a petition calling for an end to these short-sighted hospital cuts. Enough is enough. It’s time for this government to listen.

New Democrats know nurses are vital to making sure families and seniors in Windsor and across Ontario get quality health care they can count on. It’s time for this government to recognize the value of our nurses in delivering patient care and commit to a moratorium on nursing cuts.

Battle of Monte Cassino

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: Earlier today we gathered to remember one of the most important campaigns of the Second World War: the Battle of Monte Cassino. Many Allied troops perished—including some members of my family—or sustained injuries during this long and difficult military campaign.

On the final push for Monte Cassino, 923 brave heroes of the famed Polish II Corps lost their lives and thousands more were wounded. Polish visitors always lay red and white flowers at these heroes’ final resting place, the Polish army cemetery at the top of Monte Cassino. The memorial’s inscription reads:

“For our freedom and yours

“We soldiers of Poland

“Gave

“Our soul to God

“Our life to the soil of Italy

“Our hearts to Poland.”

This is the 72nd anniversary of the Battle of Monte Cassino, and we were honoured to join the president of the Canadian Polish Congress, Ms. Teresa Berezowski; the vice-president of the National Congress of Italian Canadians; the consul general of the Republic of Poland, Grzegorz Morawski; and the consul general of Italy, Giuseppe Pastorelli, to recognize their amazing work to create the display named “For Our Freedom and Yours” here at Queen’s Park. Today is made even more special as Polish President Andrzej Duda is visiting the GTA and our nation’s capital.

Today, let us remember and honour the sacrifices of the brave and patriotic men who served during this campaign, as well as our veterans and military personnel who uphold our democracy and our values.

Ontario Small Urban Municipalities conference

Ms. Lisa M. Thompson: Last week, the town of Goderich—known internationally as the prettiest town in Canada—hosted the 2016 Ontario Small Urban Municipalities conference. Running from May 4 to 6, this year’s theme was “Are You Prepared?” and featured speakers such as famed tornado hunter Greg Johnson. He was a big hit with the group in attendance in Goderich last week.

Also on hand was Gary McNamara, president of the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, who highlighted some of the challenges facing our rural and small urban municipalities. Central to his message was the disconnect that seems to exist in the government here at Queen’s Park with respect to smaller municipalities. These municipalities don’t always have the resources that larger urban centres do in order to tackle the red tape surrounding projects such as grant applications, development funding or even lobbying.

He pointed to the fact that the government is currently more concerned with projects for cities and large urban centres, such as rapid transit. I would suggest, Speaker, that in smaller municipalities, bridges and roads are oftentimes the only lifeline available to build up local economies and they’re equally important.

Projects such as bridges can be costly—upwards of several million dollars—and raising the money to get matching federal and provincial funding is difficult with a smaller population. I’d like my colleagues on the other side of the House to keep that in mind when they are looking for new projects to invest in to “build Ontario up.”

Congratulations to the planning committee and Mayor Kevin Morrison, and I look forward to next year’s conference as well.

Child care

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Families in Ontario face a child care crisis: too few spots, unaffordable rates and a huge financial burden on families. Because parents are desperate, they register on multiple child care lists in their communities. Since they often have to pay to register, this becomes an additional burden on these families.

A number of parents in the east end of Toronto have come together to address this issue. At the beginning of April, the Minister of Education committed to changing regulations to protect parents from these fees and to ensure waiting lists are administered fairly. As of today, there has been no presentation, no public statement that in fact this change is coming forward.

Last week, I introduced a private member’s bill, at the request of the parents, to take on the issue. I urge the minister to bring forward regulations to actually deal with the waiting list expense and fairness issue. Failing that, my hope is that the government will take on this private member’s bill, take on this legislation, and move the issue forward. I think that families, children and the child care system deserve no less.

Lakeshorts International Short Film Festival

Mr. Peter Z. Milczyn: I am pleased to rise today to speak to the House about the sixth annual Lakeshorts International Short Film Festival. Last Friday and Saturday nights, this event took place in my riding of Etobicoke–Lakeshore at the Assembly Hall, where filmmakers, both local ones and from around the world, were invited to submit their wonderful short films.

This event, which has been organized for the last six years by Michelle Nolden and Chris Szarka—and the emcee is the renowned movie critic Richard Crouse—is a wonderful event that brings together filmmakers from around the world, and a great cultural event in my community of Etobicoke–Lakeshore that attracts people from across the GTA as well.

These wonderful filmmakers create stories that aren’t Hollywood blockbusters but are important short stories that tell us about the lives and cultures of people from around the world.

This wonderful event demonstrates the great cultural vibrancy in my community, in the city of Toronto and in Ontario. Ontario continues to be the number one film and TV production place in Canada and the third in North America. Events like this cement our standing internationally as one of the cities for film around the globe.

Nurses

Mr. Jeff Yurek: I am proud to stand here today on behalf of the PC caucus and our leader, Patrick Brown, on the first day of National Nursing Week. National Nursing Week first came into being in 1985, when the second week of May was officially proclaimed National Nursing Week in Canada in an effort to recognize the dedication and achievements of the nursing profession.

This year’s theme is “Nurses: With You Every Step of the Way.”

Speaker, nurses do build strong connections with the people, families and communities they care for. Ontario is blessed with dedicated RNs, NPs and RPNs, all of whom work hard to do what’s best for their patients.

Due to the ongoing mismanagement of the health care system from this government, though, our system is being rationed. We have seen years of frozen hospital budgets, which have led to many nurses being fired. RNs, NPs and RPNs all have a role to be played in our health care system. Their role should be based on an expanded scope of practice, not on budget shortfalls due to the incompetence of this government.

I invite all MPPs to partake in RNAO’s Take Your MPP to Work Day, a day that has been ongoing for the past 16 years.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, I’d like to take this opportunity to thank all the nurses across Ontario for their hard work and dedication to our patients. Our nurses go well beyond their duty, despite year after year, being forced to do more with less.

Fire in Fort McMurray

Mrs. Amrit Mangat: We are all touched by the unfortunate devastation that unfolded in Fort McMurray over the past week. My heart goes out to those who have lost their homes and means of livelihood.

The pictures coming from the scene are scary and sad to watch. The plight of more than 80,000 people who fled is beyond imagination. The danger to the well-being of those on the front line, including brave firefighters, is clear.

Fortunately, Canadians are coming together to support their fellow Canadians. It is encouraging that the federal government is matching donations. Even a group of Syrian refugees in Calgary is raising funds to help their new friends.

I applaud the Ontario Sikhs and Gurdwara Council and the Ontario Gurdwara Committee for fundraising in support of the people of Fort McMurray.

I want to thank our Premier for her leadership in sending 100 firefighters from Ontario to assist.

Mr. Speaker, let’s all pray for those who are caught in the grip of this natural disaster and open our hearts and wallets to help them in their time of dire need.

Russell Agricultural Society Ladies’ Night

Mr. Grant Crack: Last Friday, I had the distinct pleasure of being able to attend the Russell Agricultural Society’s 13th annual Ladies’ Night event, the sold-out “Evening in Paris” dinner and auction in my riding of Glengarry–Prescott–Russell.

Over the last 13 years, the Russell Agricultural Society Ladies’ Night events have gone on to raise more than $340,000 for a wide variety of charities doing amazing work, including but not limited to the Canadian Cancer Society, cystic fibrosis, juvenile diabetes, the Make-A-Wish foundation, and ALS Canada. This year, over 500 individuals raised $30,000 through silent and live auctions and donations for the Alzheimer Society/La Société Alzheimer.

Since 1983, the Alzheimer Society has been committed to raising awareness and moving forward with the goal of finding a cure as well as continuing the vital efforts of improving the quality of life for many Ontarians living with Alzheimer’s and other dementias. I applaud the society for the great work that they do in our communities.

Additionally, this year’s event helped raise funds for the victims of the Fort McMurray wildfire in order to help alleviate the burden of the ongoing tragedy in Alberta.

Today I am highlighting the invaluable charitable work done by the Russell Agricultural Society, as well as extending a very gracious thank you to the honoured guests and the many volunteers who selflessly donated their time and efforts to this event for a very important cause. It was a pleasure for me to participate again this year. I’d like to send out a special thanks to co-chairs Judy McFaul and Lynne Rochon and also to a good friend, Suzanne Perras Campbell, and their team for their outstanding dedication and service to their community.

Introduction of Bills

Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Helmet Exemption for Sikh Motorcyclists), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant le Code de la route (exemption de l’obligation de port du casque pour les motocyclistes sikhs)

Mr. Singh moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 196,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to exempt Sikh motorcyclists from the requirement to wear a helmet / Projet de loi 196, Loi modifiant le Code de la route pour exempter les motocyclistes sikhs de l’obligation de porter un casque.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for a short statement?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: I want to welcome the Sikh Motorcycle Club of Ontario for their support on this.

Section 104 of the Highway Traffic Act requires that persons riding or operating a motorcycle or a motor-assisted bicycle on a highway must wear a helmet. This bill exempts members of the Sikh community who have unshorn hair and who habitually wear turbans from

section 104. The exemption exists in the UK; it also exists in other provinces such as Manitoba and British Columbia, which notably has a large Sikh population as well. This is a matter of freedom of expression, and I strongly support the adoption of this bill.

Allergy Friendly Schoolyard Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur les cours d’école non allergisantes

Mr. Kwinter moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 197,

An Act to amend the Education Act with respect to the planting of allergenic plants on school premises / Projet de loi 197, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l’éducation en ce qui a trait à la plantation de plantes allergènes dans les lieux scolaires.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member for a short statement.

Mr. Monte Kwinter: The bill amends the Education Act to require every district school board or school authority to ensure that no new allergenic plants are planted on school premises. A plant is considered allergenic if it meets the allergenicity requirements prescribed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council.

Motions

Private members’ public business

Hon. David Zimmer: Mr. Speaker, I believe we have unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice regarding private members’ public business.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs is seeking unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice. Do we agree? Agreed.

Minister.

Hon. David Zimmer: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 98(g), notice for ballot item 42 be waived.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The minister moves that, notwithstanding standing order 98(g), the notice for ballot item 42 be waived. Do we agree? Agreed. Carried.

Motion agreed to.

Standing Committee on Estimates

Hon. David Zimmer: Speaker, I believe we have unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice with respect to the Standing Committee on Estimates.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Aboriginal Affairs is seeking unanimous consent to put forward a motion without notice. Do we agree? Agreed.

Minister.

Hon. David Zimmer: I move that, notwithstanding standing order 60, the Standing Committee on Estimates consider the 2016-17 estimates of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs on May 17 and May 18, 2016; and

That the Standing Committee on Estimates resume consideration of the 2016-17 estimates of the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care on May 31, 2016; and

That, upon completion of consideration of the remaining 2016-17 estimates of the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care, the committee shall resume consideration of the 2016-17 estimates of the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The minister moves that, notwithstanding—

Hon. David Zimmer: Dispense.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Dispense? Dispense.

Do we agree? Carried.

Motion agreed to.

Petitions

Prompt payment

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I have a number of petitions entitled “Support Prompt Payment Legislation in Ontario.” It’s addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas delayed payments are a harmful practice in Ontario’s construction industry;

“Whereas Ontario’s trade contractors incur significant costs when payments are delayed from general contractors;

“Whereas cash flow risks have forced many contractors out of business and discouraged others from investing in capital or hiring new workers;

“Whereas payment delays have led trade contractors to hiring fewer apprentices, which will lead to fewer qualified tradespeople in the future;

“Whereas prompt payment legislation offers government the opportunity to provide stimulus to the economy without spending a dime;

“We, the undersigned, call on the Ontario Legislature to support Ontario’s construction industry by adopting prompt payment legislation as a means to address the payment delay issues in Ontario.”

I sign this petition and support it.

Hospital funding

Mrs. Lisa Gretzky: I have a petition that’s only from Windsor and Essex county, with nearly 10,000 signatures on it. Another 17,000 names have signed on online. It’s called “Nurses Know—Petition for Better Care.”

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas providing high-quality, universal, public health care is crucial for a fair and thriving Ontario; and

“Whereas years of underfunding have resulted in cuts to registered nurses (RNs) and hurt patient care; and

“Whereas, in 2015 alone, Ontario lost more than 1.5 million hours of RN care due to cuts; and

“Whereas procedures are being off-loaded into private clinics not subject to hospital legislation; and

“Whereas funded services are being cut from hospitals and are not being provided in the community; and

“Whereas cutting skilled care means patients suffer more complications, readmissions and death;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“Implement a moratorium on RN cuts;

“Commit to restoring hospital base operating funding to at least cover the costs of inflation and population growth;

“Create a fully-funded multi-year health human resources plan to bring Ontario’s ratio of registered nurses to population up to the national average;

“Ensure hospitals have enough resources to continue providing safe, quality and integrated care for clinical procedures and stop plans for moving such procedures into private, unaccountable clinics.”

On behalf of myself, the member from Windsor–Tecumseh and the member from Essex, we fully support this petition.

Child care

Mr. Arthur Potts: I have a petition on a file I’ve been working very hard on with constituents and advocates.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas many parents and caregivers are being charged non-refundable fees to place their children on wait-lists for daycare centres;

“Whereas non-refundable daycare wait-list fees can range from tens to hundreds of dollars;

“Whereas due to the scarcity of quality daycare spaces, many parents and caregivers are forced to place their children on multiple wait-lists;

“Whereas non-refundable daycare wait-list fees impose a significant financial burden on parents and caregivers for the mere opportunity to access quality child care;

“Whereas daycare wait-lists are often administered in a non-transparent manner which creates the risk that they will be administered in an unfair and/or discriminatory manner;

“Whereas parents and caregivers in Ontario already face significant barriers accessing daycare due to high costs and limited numbers of daycare spaces;

“Whereas quality child care is a public good and not a commodity and the costs of child care should not operate on a supply-and-demand basis;

“Whereas there are currently no regulations in place to prevent daycares from charging parents and caregivers exploitative fees;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“That all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario recognize that we have a responsibility to take action now, and support a requirement for transparent administration of daycare wait-lists and a ban on non-refundable daycare wait-list fees.”

I agree with this petition. I’ve been working hard to make it happen, notwithstanding the other member’s bill, and I sign my name to it.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Bill Walker: “To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas the current government under Premier Kathleen Wynne is calling for the sale of up to 60% of Hydro One shares into private ownership; and

“Whereas the decision to sell the public utility was made without any public input and the deal will continue to be done in complete secrecy; and

“Whereas the loss of majority ownership in Hydro One will force ratepayers to accept whatever changes the new owners decide, such as higher rates; and

“Whereas electricity rates are already sky-high and hurting family budgets as well as businesses; and

“Whereas ratepayers will never again have independent investigations of consumer complaints, such as the Ontario Ombudsman’s damning report on failed billing; and

“Whereas the people of Ontario are the true owners of Hydro One and they do not believe the fire sale of Hydro One is in their best interest;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To protect Ontario ratepayers by stopping the sale of Hydro One.”

I fully support it, will affix my name and send it with page Aadil.

Speed limits

Mr. John Vanthof: I have a petition here signed by over 2,000 people from a good part of northern Ontario, and it says:

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas driving at a high rate of speed has contributed to many fatal snowmobile accidents on lakes and rivers across Ontario; and

“Whereas the safety of individuals is put at risk when snowmobiles are driven at a high rate of speed on lakes, rivers and within close proximity to people, ice huts and other vehicles; and

“Whereas

section 14 of the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, RSO 1990, c. M.44 states:

“‘No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle at a greater rate of speed than,

“‘(a) 20 kilometres per hour,

“‘(

i) on a highway where the speed limit established pursuant to the Highway Traffic Act is 50 kilometres per hour or less, or

“‘(ii) in any public park or exhibition grounds; or

“‘(b) 50 kilometres per hour,

“‘(

i) on any highway which is open to motor vehicle traffic, where the speed limit established pursuant to the Highway Traffic Act is greater than 50 kilometres per hour, or

“‘(ii) on a trail. RSO 1990, c. M.44, s. 14(1).’

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“(a)That no person shall drive a motorized vehicle at a greater rate of speed than;

“(i) 20 km per hour within 200 feet of any person, ice hut or other vehicles

“(ii) 80 km per hour on a frozen waterways

“(iii) set speeding fine for driving in excess of 20 km/h when within 200 feet of person, ice hut or vehicle

“(iv) set speeding fine for driving in excess of 80 km/h on a frozen waterway.”

I’d like to submit this petition to the Legislature with page Leah.

Water fluoridation

Mr. Peter Z. Milczyn: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to update Ontario fluoridation legislation.

“Whereas scientific studies conducted during the past 70 years have consistently shown that community water fluoridation is a safe and effective means of preventing dental decay and is a public health measure endorsed by more than 90 national and international health organizations, including the Ontario Chief Medical Officer of Health and the Ontario Dental Association...;

“Whereas the Ontario Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing urges support for the removal of provisions allowing Ontario municipalities to cease drinking water fluoridation, or fail to start drinking water fluoridation...;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“That the Premier of Ontario direct the Ministries of Municipal Affairs and Housing and Health and Long-Term Care to amend all applicable legislation and regulations to make the fluoridation of municipal drinking water mandatory in all municipal water systems across the province of Ontario before the end of the first session of the current Ontario Parliament.”

Mr. Speaker, I support this petition, affix my signature to it and hand it to page Benjamin.

Hospital funding

Mr. Robert Bailey: I have a petition here from Traci Steadman, a registered nurse from my riding.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas providing high-quality, universal, public health care is crucial for a fair and thriving Ontario; and

“Whereas years of underfunding have resulted in cuts to registered nurses (RNs) and hurt patient care; and

“Whereas, in 2015 alone, Ontario lost more than 1.5 million hours of RN care due to cuts; and

“Whereas procedures are being off-loaded into private clinics not subject to hospital legislation; and

“Whereas funded services are being cut from hospitals and are not being provided in the community; and

“Whereas cutting skilled care means patients suffer more complications, readmissions and death;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“Implement a moratorium on RN cuts;

“Commit to restoring hospital base operating funding to at least cover the costs of inflation and population growth;

“Create a fully-funded multi-year health human resources plan to bring Ontario’s ratio of registered nurses to population up to the national average;

“Ensure hospitals have enough resources to continue providing safe, quality and integrated care for clinical procedures and stop plans for moving such procedures into private, unaccountable clinics.”

I agree with this, I’ll affix my signature and send it down with Spencer to the table.

Gasoline prices

M me France Gélinas: I have close to a thousand names on this petition, and I’d like to thank Darlene Bailey from my riding for signing it. It reads as follows:

“Whereas northern Ontario motorists continue to be subject to wild fluctuations in the price of gasoline; and

“Whereas the province could eliminate opportunistic price gouging and deliver fair, stable and predictable fuel prices; and

“Whereas five provinces and many US states already have some sort of gas price regulation; and

“Whereas jurisdictions with gas price regulation have seen an end to wild price fluctuations, a shrinking of price discrepancies between urban and rural ... and lower annualized gas prices;”

They petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to:

“Mandate the Ontario Energy Board to monitor the price of gasoline across Ontario in order to reduce price volatility and unfair regional price differences while encouraging competition.”

I fully support this petition, will affix my name to it and ask Samantha to bring it to the Clerk.

Water fluoridation

Mr. Bob Delaney: I have a petition addressed to the Ontario Legislative Assembly, which was sent to me by some residents in southern Mississauga. It is entitled “Update Ontario Fluoridation Legislation,” and it reads as follows:

“Whereas scientific studies conducted during the past 70 years have consistently shown that community water fluoridation is a safe and effective means of preventing dental decay and is a public health measure endorsed by more than 90 national and international health organizations, including the Ontario Chief Medical Officer of Health and the Ontario Dental Association; and

“Whereas recent experience in Canadian cities that have removed fluoride from drinking water has led ... to a dramatic increase in tooth decay; and

“Whereas the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care urges support for amending the Fluoridation Act to ensure community water fluoridation is mandatory; and

“Whereas the Ontario Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing urges support for the removal of provisions allowing Ontario municipalities to cease drinking water fluoridation, or fail to start drinking water fluoridation, from the Ontario Municipal Act;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“That the Premier of Ontario direct the Ministries of Municipal Affairs and Housing and Health and Long-Term Care to amend all applicable legislation and regulations to make the fluoridation of municipal drinking water mandatory in all municipal water systems across the province of Ontario before the end of the first session of the current Ontario Parliament.”

Speaker, I am pleased to sign and support this petition and to send it down with page Emma.

Health care funding

Mr. Jim McDonell: I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas repeated cuts to health care funding under the present government are having a negative impact on the residents of Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry, including seniors, diabetics and those suffering from eye or cardiovascular conditions; and

“Whereas the heart rehabilitation program at the Seaway Valley Health Centre provided a valuable service for many residents; and

“Whereas it is in everyone’s interest to help all Ontarians stay healthy and prevent the occurrence of acute and dangerous conditions, such as heart failure; and

“Whereas this interest is best served through adequate funding to programs that have proven their value;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To take all necessary actions to restore the heart rehab program at the Seaway Valley Health Centre.”

I agree with this and will be passing it off to page William.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Wayne Gates: A petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Privatizing Hydro One: Another Wrong Choice.

“Whereas once you privatize hydro, there’s no return; and

“We’ll lose billions in reliable annual revenues for schools and hospitals; and

“We’ll lose our biggest economic asset and control over our energy future; and

“We’ll pay higher and higher hydro bills just like what’s happened elsewhere;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To stop the sale of Hydro One and make sure Ontario families benefit from owning Hydro One now and for generations to come.”

I agree with the petition, and I’ll sign my name to it and give it to Leah.

Sexual violence and harassment

Ms. Daiene Vernile: This is a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas one in three women will experience some form of sexual assault in her lifetime.

“When public education about sexual violence and harassment is not prioritized, myths and attitudes informed by misogyny become prevalent. This promotes rape culture....

“Sexual violence and harassment survivors too often feel revictimized by the systems set in place to support them. The voices of survivors, in all their diversity, need to be amplified....

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“Support the findings and recommendations of the Select Committee on Sexual Violence and Harassment’s final report, highlighting the need for inclusive and open dialogue to address misogyny and rape culture; educate about sexual violence and harassment to promote social change ... and address attrition rates within our justice system, including examining ‘unfounded’ cases, developing enhanced prosecution models and providing free legal advice for survivors.”

Mr. Speaker, I agree with this petition, will affix my signature to it, and will give this to page Brendan.

Orders of the Day

Energy Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois sur l’énergie

Resuming the debate adjourned on May 5, 2016, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 135,

An Act to amend several statutes and revoke several regulations in relation to energy conservation and long-term energy planning / Projet de loi 135, Loi modifiant plusieurs lois et abrogeant plusieurs règlements en ce qui concerne la conservation de l’énergie et la planification énergétique à long terme.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): When we last debated this bill, the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke had the floor, and I assume he wants to speak again.

I am pleased to recognize the member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Well, if I may, Speaker, and I thank you for that, I’m not prepared to relinquish it just yet. I have a few moments left on the clock, and I intend to use as much of that as possible.

When I left off, we were talking about the mess that we’ve already seen this government, through ministerial directives and political interference, cause in the energy sector. I was speaking, I believe—and the member for Toronto–Danforth was helping me, and I appreciate that—about the gas plant cancellation decisions that have cost Ontario over $1 billion.

In Bill 135, we actually take the power that the minister has and expand upon that. Essentially, under

schedule 2—changes to the Electricity Act—the minister has almost unfettered powers. It talks about a more consultative process, but at the end of the day it also puts in there that, well, he can talk to people but he also has the power to ignore everything they say. It’s a perfect Liberal bill, perfectly in keeping with the philosophy of this Liberal government: Go around and talk to everybody—the Premier loves to talk about how she loves to consult and collaborate with people and sit together with people to discuss what is best for the people of Ontario, and at the end of the day pays no attention to anything that has been said. At the end of the day, it’s the Liberal way or no way at all.

Under Bill 135, the Minister of Energy—and I believe I said that he would be crowned as the emperor of energy under this bill. The member from Toronto–Danforth said that we’d be creating an energy czar, and I just didn’t think that that actually gave him enough power. The “emperor of energy” would actually be more appropriate.

Look at some of the things that they’re doing. The minister spoke about all of the wonderful things they’re doing in the energy sector. Speaker, I think it’s incumbent upon me, as the opposition energy critic, to perhaps disagree with him a little bit. He’s going on about how everything they’ve done is so wonderful in the energy sector. Yet, when I go home in my riding—and I guarantee you, Speaker, when the Liberal members go home to their ridings, they’re hearing the same thing.

The difference is, when they come here, they have to check in to the Premier’s office on the way in—there’s a little corridor they go through—and they get the electronic muzzle. They can’t say a thing against the Liberal government while they’re here, but they know what they’re hearing in their ridings about the energy sector and hydro rates. They know.

Mr. Grant Crack: It’s all positive.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I hear the member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell say “all positive.” Well, I hope the folks up in GPR just heard that. He says that it’s all positive, folks. I would implore you to write to your member about energy rates in Glengarry–Prescott–Russell, because I hardly think they’re all positive. You’ve got his email address; fill that box, ladies and gentlemen in TV land, particularly you people in Glengarry–Prescott–Russell. The member just said that everything’s hunky-dory in Glengarry–Prescott–Russell, everybody’s happy. If you’re happy about energy rates in Glengarry–Prescott–Russell, let him know. But if you’re not happy, let him know that too.

One of the things that—and this is just too cute by half. I’ve got to believe that there’s some influence here, not that I would ever accuse anybody of doing anything. If you’re a Hydro One customer, which I am—most people in rural Ontario are. I love this

part in the hydro bill now; I get so many calls about this. People are just livid when they read this on their hydro bill. They took away the clean energy benefit—10% right up on your hydro bills. They’ve gone up every time you turn around. They went up again on May 1—the fastest-rising rates in North America, the highest rates anywhere.

Mr. Bob Delaney: You’re wrong.

Mr. John Yakabuski: The member from Mississauga says that we’re wrong. So one increase that might be higher than this specific increase—but there’s nowhere in North America where energy rates have risen like they have in Ontario over the past few years, and the member knows that. If he wants to debate and dispute that, well, he’d be more than welcome to it. He likes to talk, but he never likes to talk about the facts.

Anyway, here we go: On your bill now—after they’ve raised it to the point that they’re putting people into energy poverty—as of January, they took the debt retirement charge off the residential bills. But the debt retirement charge, for the purpose of calculating it on a residential bill, should have gone off in January 2012. It was paid by 2011. But this government continued to put it on people’s bills because they were taking that money and spending it on their pet programs, or they had already spent the money and they had to keep extracting it from the pockets of energy ratepayers.

So you had paid, as a residential customer, the debt retirement charge. But now they have the gall, the unmitigated gall, to put this on your hydro bill—I’m looking at my own hydro bill, with the two little asterisks, and then: “Debt retirement charge exemption saved you” X number of dollars. So they are now saying that they took a charge off that I’d actually already paid for years ago, that I should have stopped paying for years ago, and now that they finally got around to taking it off, they’re saving me money.

They’re saving me money by not charging me the debt retirement charge I’d already fully paid for years ago. They have the gall to put that on your hydro bill like they are doing you some kind of a favour.

Can you believe it? Even the banks haven’t got that much gall. Even the banks haven’t got that much gall as the Minister of Energy does to have Hydro One, which is still 70% owned by the province—they’ve sold off 15% and then 15% of Hydro One. We’re going to get into that if we have time. I’m sure the member for Toronto–Danforth—I don’t think you folks are in favour of that sale, are you? God, that’s just a disaster. It’s going to be a bigger disaster when they stop getting the revenue from Hydro One.

They’re talking about the revenue from the sale of Hydro One like they’ve somehow struck gold in the California gold rush and they’re all running into the saloon and buying everybody drinks because it’s time to celebrate because it’s never been better. But wait till the money stops coming in from Hydro One. Wait till the revenue stops coming in from Hydro One, and then you people—well, for God’s sake, surely to goodness by the time that rolls around, somebody else will be in charge of the government of this province.

But all these people want to do—they’re bound and determined that whatever they do, no matter how many mistakes they make—and I can’t even count that high—they will do their level best to keep this one promise that by 2017-18 they are going to have a balanced budget, and it doesn’t matter what they have to sell.

Well, last week, they just sold the Ontario Liquor Control Board—

Interjection.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Two hundred and sixty million dollars. It’s going to be a fire sale for anything they’ve got out there because they just want the cash to stuff into the corner and be able to say, “Oh, look, we’ve tamed the deficit.” But that’s not how you tame a deficit. You tame a deficit by changing your spending patterns and balancing revenue and expenses, not one-time revenue that can never repeat itself.

Interjection.

Mr. John Yakabuski: When you sell that property this year, I say to the member from Barrie, who must be a financial wizard because she seems to think she’s got all the answers—when you sell this property once, can you sell it twice? That’s what you’re depending on when you start selling property for a one-time fire sale, because you can’t get rid of a structural deficit by selling off assets. You can’t get rid of a structural deficit by selling off assets, and what we’ve got here in this province is a structural deficit because they can’t balance the expenditures with the revenue.

They’re hoping that, at one point in time where those lines intersect—they are hoping that in 2017-18, those lines intersect and somehow we have a balanced budget. That’s what they’re hoping for. They are going to go to the people on June 14, 2018—I believe that’s the scheduled date of the election. They’re going to be able to go during that 28-day period or, before that, when they bring in the 2018-19 budget, and they’re going to say, “We’ve got it balanced. We’ve got it licked.”

But they haven’t got anything licked, because the structural problems will still exist, because they haven’t done anything to correct that. They’re just selling off the family jewels. They are selling off the inheritances. It’s like the guy who is spending like the prodigal son, and then he gets the inheritance and he thinks, “Oh, I’m good.” He was broke. “Oh, I’ve got lots of money now. Everything is fine.” But unless he has balanced his income with his expenses, as soon as he spends off his daddy’s money, he’s broke again.

That’s what this government will end up doing in Ontario, because they’re just spending the inheritance. They’re not doing anything to attack the meat of the matter, which is the problems in budgeting here in the province of Ontario.

Now, I know I drifted a little bit there, but it’s all about Hydro One and it’s all about the energy sector, because that is the single biggest crown asset we have in this province and they’re going to sell it off. I guess what people have to ask themselves is, “After Hydro One, what next? What are they going to sell next?”

But this was the thing that just got me: when we started getting this little note on our hydro bill this year that said, “We saved you money by you not paying the debt retirement charge.” I don’t owe it, but somehow they saved me money by not putting it on my bill. Wow. It’s beyond unethical; it should even be illegal for them to make that claim, that somehow they are saving you money by having you not pay for something that you didn’t owe. It’s wrong.

Interjection: There should be a forensic audit.

Mr. John Yakabuski: There should be a forensic audit, but at the very least it’s shameful that they’ll play that kind of game with energy customers who are on the brink as it is, Speaker.

I asked a question in the House this past week and got no fitting response from the energy minister; nothing whatsoever. But I spoke to a lady who volunteers at the food bank in Eganville. She told me that use of the food bank was up 30%. This is Eganville; it’s a village of 1,300 people. The use of the food bank was up 30%. In fact, they ran out of food.

When they would ask the people who were coming in what was bringing them there—because you have to wonder what causes a 30% increase in the clientele in a short period of time— almost to a person they told her, “We have to make a choice: If we pay the hydro bill, we can’t afford food. If we buy food, we can’t pay the hydro bill.” Their hope is that they pay the hydro bill so they don’t get it cut off and hope the food bank is there to help them through that crisis.

What happens when the food bank runs out of food? They’ve had no expectation that the increase would be that rapid and that severe, but that’s what this government has done. They have forced people into energy poverty and driven them to food banks. In a province this rich, it’s really sad.

It’s also indicative and illustrative, Speaker, of how out of touch they are with the average person, particularly those people in rural Ontario who don’t have high incomes. They have to drive to work and have no opportunity to get on public transit. They have to drive to work, if they’re fortunate enough to have a job. But there’s no public transportation so they have to invest in a vehicle. They have lower incomes but they still must own a vehicle, which is expensive.

Then you’ve got gas prices. The municipalities don’t even get a share of the gas tax from this government, even though they pay it on every litre of fuel put into one of those vehicles in rural Ontario. But this government doesn’t give it to rural municipalities to be able to build their infrastructure.

They talk about what a priority infrastructure is. Now they’ve got these ads.

They’re spending more of the money that maybe could go to families of autistic children, but no. Can you believe this, Speaker? They cut off IBI at the age of five now.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: That’s very misleading.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Oh. I’m going to sit down for a moment.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I have to ask the Deputy Premier to withdraw that unparliamentary remark.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I withdraw.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke has the floor.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Wow. I’ve been accused of many things in this House, but that isn’t one of them.

I appreciate that the minister withdrew the comment.

Let me clarify: The government has cut off IBI treatments for children over the age of five. That is, in fact, the case—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): I’m anticipating a point of order, and I would ask the member to ensure that his remarks are relevant with respect to the bill.

Mr. Bob Delaney: Thank you, Speaker. That was indeed my point of order.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): The member has the floor.

Mr. John Yakabuski: I want to preface this by saying that everything I’m talking about references Bill 135. I want to bring this into the broad view of it if I could, because it is what happens when power becomes unfettered. When power gets unfettered and you don’t have to talk to the people and you don’t have to sit down with the opposition parties and you don’t have to sit down at committee—when you can do whatever you want—that’s when the greatest damage to the people gets done. That’s what I’m trying to emphasize.

I will try to be a little more direct on Bill 135, but that’s the principle I’m trying to illustrate here on how dangerous this bill is.

On Bill 135: This bill, and particularly

schedule 2, which gives those unfettered powers to the minister, is perhaps one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation I’ve ever seen. This is something that I never actually anticipated when I came here. I never believed it would happen, but here it has happened.

We had committee hearings on this bill—my colleague from Toronto–Danforth was there for every one of them—and we suffered through them because we saw exactly what those deputants were talking about. It didn’t matter if you were representing an environmental group; it didn’t matter if you were representing an energy association; it didn’t matter if you were representing a group of unionized professionals that know the system inside out: The refrain was the same. “Don’t proceed with this schedule, giving those kinds of powers to one person. It is dangerous.” I don’t think they could have emphasized it more.

I know that we brought amendments to the bill to the committee, hoping that somehow the government would change its view on that schedule. You see, under this new bill, we’ve got two organizations established by this government or other governments for the very purpose of protecting the people and the government from their own mistakes. The IESO, the Independent Electricity System Operator, is now an amalgamation of what the IESO was as well as the OPA, which was the Ontario Power Authority, which was established by this government under Bill 100 in 2005.

I remember that Dwight Duncan was the minister at the time. He talked about how Bill 100 and the OPA were going to protect the consumer and protect the system and take the politics out of the electricity sector. Well, I guess the best way to not worry about those organizations that were supposed to take the politics out of the electricity sector was to just get rid of those organizations.

The OPA—I think correctly—was amalgamated into the IESO, but now the minister could just get all of the input from the IESO on a particular move that the government is talking about doing or considering, and then say, “Thank you very much for all your work. I appreciate it. We value your opinion, but I’m not going to pay any attention.

I, the energy minister; you, the group of experts in the field that are in your positions because of your expertise because this is what you do for a living”—this is the group that have the letters behind their names that actually indicates that they are engineers or electricity experts. “Thank you for your input. It’s well considered, but I don’t like it because it doesn’t fit with the political goals of this government.”

Is this what it has come down to? Is this what we’re left to believe is the way to operate an electricity system: that the experts can be called upon to give their view and the minister can simply say no?

You have to ask yourself—and I say this to be kind to the minister: Why would you want that kind of power? For every mistake that you make—and if your previous record is any indication of what your record in the future is going to be, there will be many—you will have no one else to blame for your mistake.

That’s what we’re going to get with Bill 135, because the reality is that there are more of them than there are of us. We can’t stop this bill from passing any more than we could force them to approve some of the very, very well-considered and sensible amendments that the third party and our party brought to the table in committee. If I’m counting right, I think there were 34 amendments.

I don’t recall if any of yours were passed, I say to the member from Toronto–Danforth. I’m only being cheeky. I know that absolutely none of yours were passed and none of ours were passed either by the Liberal-dominated majority on the committee.

The spin doctors: Oh, boy, have they been out, Speaker. The Minister of Energy must buy ink by the barrel because he has been writing letters. I want to read you a letter that he wrote to the people in my riding.

“To the editor:

“This letter is in response to ‘Hydro Rates Pushing People to Breaking Point: Yakabuski,’ which appeared in the Feb. 28 edition of the Renfrew Mercury.

“As a long-standing member of the Legislature, MPP John Yakabuski, whom I consider a friend, should know that sooner or later his bombastic rhetoric would come into contact with the facts—and the facts will win. In a recent news

article you quoted him saying ‘...since November the average bill has gone up $187.’ This is an incorrect and an outlandish claim; as calculated by the Ontario Energy Board, the average household pays $150 per month using 750 kWh.

“Mr. Yakabuski casts Ontario’s recent 2.5% increase as ‘irresponsibly high,’ notwithstanding these recent increases in other provinces: British Columbia (4%), Saskatchewan (5%), Manitoba (3.95%), and Newfoundland (3.6%). Residential rates in Ontario are higher than some provinces and competitive with other provinces, even after eliminating cheaper dirty coal generation, which most provinces continue to burn. We are less expensive than most US and European cities. Our industrial rates are among the lowest in North America....

“There are available price mitigation programs for residential and business consumers and conservation programs for both; has MPP Yakabuski been active enough promoting these benefits to the benefit of his constituents? Examples of conservation programs include Home Depot’s 161 outlets using conservation programs to reduce consumption by 29 million kWh, saving millions, and taking the equivalent of 3,000 homes off the grid; or the city of Barrie using a program and replacing all street lights, saving taxpayers $2 million annually; and more small businesses are participating every week across Ontario.

“By contacting your local utility or your MPP’s office you can learn about programs to reduce your consumption.”

That was in the Renfrew Mercury, April 29, 2016.

It’s a lovely story that he’s telling you. On one occasion, the rates in Manitoba, British Columbia or whatever may have gone higher than ours, on one particular increase, but if you measure this over the last few years, the gap continues to widen. In fact, in the province of Quebec, it’s way less than half of what we pay.

The Minister of Finance said electricity rates are going down. The Minister of Energy says energy is a bargain.

Interjection.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Yes, he says rates are going down. He’s in the Hansard.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: