Manitoba Hansard — 3 December 2019 (Sitting 10B, 42nd Legislature, 2nd Session)

42-2-10b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXIV No. 10B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, December 3, 2019 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MOSES, Jamie St.

Vital NDP MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon.

Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

329 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 3, 2019 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 15–The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment and Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Amendment Act Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. Cullen), that B ill 15, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment and Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation Amendment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr.

Wharton: Madam Speaker, Bill 15 amends two acts: The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control, and The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corporation acts. The liquor, gaming and cannabis control amend- ment creates more options for consumers by expanding liquor sales to take -away and delivery food services. The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Amendment Act removes the current reference to beer under the distribution

section which limits distribution for private distributors and replaces it with beverage alcohol categories, allowing third-party distributors to distribute a wider variety of products. Also, pleased to be joined by members and stakeholders in the gallery today. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 13–The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended) Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Central Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development (Mr.

Pedersen), that Bill 13, The Crown Land Dispositions Act (Various Acts Amended), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Helwer: This bill will make the overall process of land dispositions more efficient, effective and transparent. The changes proposed in this bill are part of a new governance model that will allow routine land transactions to go forward in a timely manner. This bill will amend The Crown Lands Act, The Expropriation Act, The Land Acquisition Act, The Public Works Act and The Water Resources Administration Act.

This bill creates new delegated authorities to ensure an appropriate level of oversight and approvals are in place for land sales. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 20–The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act Hon. Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Crown Services, that Bill 20, The Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Schuler: Madam Speaker, I am pleased to introduce Bill 20, The Drivers and Vehicle s Amendment Act.

As part of the Manitoba government's 100- Day Action Plan, this legislation is required to strengthen consumer protection and compliance mechanisms for mandatory entry level training for class 1 commercial truck drivers to support an approved standard of service delivery in Manitoba. Bill 20 will establish regulation-making authorities to require surety bonds from driver -training schools to provide financial protection to students in the event of a school closure and impose administrative penalties for schools and instructors that are noncompliant with legislation.

The legislation was –will also establish the Licence Suspension Appeal Board as the authority for hearing appeals related to administrative penalties. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

330 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Bill 204–The Public Schools Amendment Act (Teaching Experience of Principals) Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): I move, and seconded by the member from T ranscona, that Bill 204, The Public Schools Amendment Act (Teaching Experience of Principals), now be read the first time. Motion presented. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm honoured to present to the House Bill 204, The Public Schools Amendment Act, teaching requirements of principals.

Our K -to-12 education system has taken a hit under the Pallister government, from larger class sizes to less support for teachers and those with exceptional needs, and with ongoing uncertainty of what's to come with the K -to-12 revie w. Bill 204 would provide certainty that our children's education remains in the hands of professionals –qualified teachers–by requiring in legislation that–an individual to have at least two years of teaching experience prior to becoming a principal. Thank you.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Human Resources First Report Ms. Janice Morley -Lecomte (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the first report of the Standing Committee on Human Resources. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Human Resources– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committ ee on Human Resources presents the following as its First Report. Meetings Your Committee met on December 2, 2019 at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building.

Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 7) – The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act ( Leave for Victims of Interpersonal Violence) / Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi (congé pour les victimes de violence interpersonnelle) Committee Membership • Ms. ADAMS • Ms. GORDON • Mr. GUENTER • Hon. Mrs. GUILLEMARD • Ms. MARCELINO • Mr. MARTIN • Ms. MORLEY-LECOMTE • Mr. MOSES • Hon. Ms. SQUIRES • Mr. SMITH (Lagimodière) Your Committee elected Ms. MORLEY-LECOMTE as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. MARTIN as the Vice-Chairperson. Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Ms.

LAMOUREUX Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 7) – The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (Leave for Victims of Interpersonal Violence) / Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi (congé pour les victimes de violence interpersonnelle): Michelle Gawronsky, MGEU – Manitoba Govern- ment and General Employees Union Bill Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 7) – The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (Leave for Victims of Interpersonal Violence) / Loi modifiant le Code des normes d'emploi (congé pour les victimes de violence interpersonnelle) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, without amendment.

Ms. Morley -Lecomte: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for McPhillips (Mr. Martin), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the Vehicle Impoundment Registry Annual Report for the Department of Justice for the fiscal year 2018-2019.

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 331 Madam Speaker: Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Woodhaven Community Club Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I'd like to put a spotlight on one of the oldest community clubs in our city and one of my favourite places to visit while growing up, the Woodhaven Community Club. Just off where –Assiniboine River near Sturgeon Creek in Kirkfield Park is where you'll find this gem of a community club. Established in 1940, community members have been coming here for many, many years with their families, including myself.

I'll have to say it's a great place to skate, especially in the cold weather. This year, the club officially turned 60 years old at its current location, and has recently undergone some major renovations to their main hall. I was able to see these updated spaces recently at their fall feast. And the pride of the community has –this spac e is strong and it's a fantastic-looking facility. Madam Speaker, the Woodhaven Community Club offers several events–numerous events through- out the year, including opportunities for neighbours to get together to share a meal.

These include things like a spring dinner, a fall feast and, most popular event, Christmas on the Hill. This Christmas, Christmas on the Hill will be held on December 20th from 6 to 9 p.m., featuring toboggan races and sleigh rides, hot chocolate and cider. There's fun for everyone and for all ages, and people are all welcome. I plan on being there, and hope everyone in this Chamber considers that as well. The current Woodhaven Community Club board is made up of 15 different members and dozens of other dedicated volunteers that r un events.

The spirit of getting involved and giving back is the heart of what makes Woodhaven Community Club such an important amenity and pillar in our community. I have the honour to welcome a few of these dedicated community members here today: Club President Mike Weber, as well as Graeme Green, were shining examples of people that dedicate their time to the community clubs, and I'd like to have their names read into the record, Madam Speaker. So, thank you. * (13:40) Madam Speaker: The member had indicated he wanted some names entered into Hansard. Were there further names other than the ones he mentioned? No?

The member, then, once he mentioned it, did not have to ask for leave because their names would automatically go into the statement. NorWest on Alexander Resource Centre Ms. Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, NorWest on Alexander, also known as NOA, is a family resource centre that has been doing an excellent job of meeting the needs of Notre Dame community members. The staff and volunteers at NOA see themselves as a resource for community members to gain support and feel empowered.

Over the years, it has become increasingly apparent that food security is one of the main concerns of folks living in the Brooklands area. In many cases, there have been reports of parents forgoing meals just so that their children can have something to eat until they can obtain their next pay. This resource centre is open six days a week for up to 10 hours a day. NOA addresses food security issues by providing food- and cooking- oriented supports. These include fruit and vegetable markets, which are provided at affordabl e prices, and free community lunches.

Other food- related programs include Kids in the Kitchen, food bingo and Make and Take cooking programs. Aside from food -related programming, NOA provides counselling services, phone and computer services, after -school programs, group exercise classes, hans kai self -care which allow community members to participate in conversations about personal health while working on craft or cooking projects. NorWest on Alexander will kick off the festive season with a holiday dinner and top it off with a brunch on Christmas Eve.

This place is committed to spreading hope and promoting physical and mental wellness through their many supports to the com - munity. And today I'd like to recognize one of NOA's volunteers here in the gallery today, Beverley Martens, and her support bird, Angel. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Further member statements?

332 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Meaning of Christmas Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): Madam Speaker, in the coming weeks, as we ll as being a time of giving and receiving gifts, Christmas will offer spiritual meaning for those who celebrate the gift of Jesus Christ. The coming of Christ as a baby reinforces the inherent value of children, no matter their socio- economic status or l ocation. When sincere care for children is mingled with faith, our hearts become tender and transformed as we serve those who are helpless without us.

The birth of Christ in an animal stable reminds us that our greatest gifts often come through obscurity and humility, and so we are prone to miss them or dismiss them as inconvenience. That Christ was born to a teenage mother shows how inexperienced people can find themselves entrusted with signifi - cance to bless a cynical yet needy world. The presence of peasant shepherds, wealthy wise men, of prayerful observers and political despots reveals that Christ came for all who would receive him, irrespective of their economic, social or religious status.

Centuries later these themes are replayed and re - lived by those who, in the name of Christ, care for children, assist the marginalized, seek for truth, welcome the stranger and make room in their lives, wallets and schedules when it is easier not to. Madam Speaker, amidst the gifts given and received this Chris tmas, may we receive the gift of Christ and remember the words of the angels: Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth, peace and goodwill to all. I wish every member of this House a merry Christmas. List of Rights Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): Cette semaine, il y a 150 ans, le gouvernement provisoire de Louis Riel a créé leur premier liste de droits. C'est un document inspirant et les idées là -dedans ont eu un impact permanent sur notre province et notre pays. Ça marque l'établissement du Man itoba sur une fondation de démocratie, de lois, de diversité et de droits humains.

La liste inclut que le peuple ait le droit de lire sa propre législature, qu'une part des terres publiques soit affectée au bénéfice des écoles, à la construction des ponts, de chemins et d'édifices publics, que les langues française et anglaise soient communes dans la législature et les cours, et que tous les documents publics ainsi que les actes de la législature soient publiés dans deux–les deux langues, aussi que les traités entre le Canada et les différentes tribus d'Amérindiens des territoires soient conclus et ratifiés pour assurer la paix à la frontière. C'est une vision progressiste, moderne et juste.

Merci à tous ceux que –qui soutiennent cette vision jusqu'aujourd'hui. Translation One hundred and fifty years ago this week, Louis Riel's interim govern ment created its first list of rights. It is an inspiring document and the ideas contained in it have had a permanent impact on our province and our country. It marks the creation of Manitoba on a foundation of democracy, laws, diversity and human rights.

The list includes people's right to elect their own legislature; that a portion of the public lands be appropriated to the benefit of schools, the building of bridges, roads and public buildings; that the English and French languages be common in the legislature and courts and that all public documents and acts of the legislature be published in both languages; also that treaties be concluded and ratified betwe en Canada and the several tribes of Indians in the territories to ensure peace on the frontier. This is a vision that is progressive, modern and just.

Thank you to all the people who have been supporting this vision until today. Council of School Leaders Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): Today I rise to recognize the important work of the Council of School Leaders, otherwise known as COSL, to people that are part of the Manitoba Teachers' Society. The organization, which exists to provide leadership support and high- quality professional development to principals, vice -principals and aspiring school leaders, and its, of course, very important work.

COSL strives also for the betterment of education in Manitoba by promoting, organizing and conducting relevant professional development, designed to increase the knowledge and enhance the skills of its membership, and again, of aspiring school leaders in the practice of educational leadership. Had the good fortune myself to be part of the professional development committee of Council of School Leaders about 10 years ago, and in–part of the important work that we did is that we brought in some

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 333 very, very important speakers –[interjection]–what am I–oh, it's over the microphone. I thought it was loud enough. Okay, so anyway, I was part of the professional development committee, and we, of course, organized a February leadership conference, our October SAGE conferences, for school leaders that came in through- out the province. I also had the great pleasure of working with some fantastic school leaders as part of this crew. I want read into the record: Margaret Fair, Michelle St.

Jean, Judy Hiebert, to name just a few. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Altomare: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today, in the gallery, I would like to welcome the chair of the Council of School Leaders, Myles Blahut– or, is Myles up there? Also, we have the good fortune of having the president of the Manitoba Teachers' Society, James Bedford, the vice- president of the Manitoba Teachers' Society, Nathan Martindale, and, of course –oh, we were going to have the general secretary, but he didn't make it, so. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. We have seated in the public gallery from Kildonan-East Collegiate 30 grade 9 students under the direction of Ebony Hunter, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). Also in the public gallery from Neepawa Area Collegiate we have 23 grade 9 students under the direction of Michelle Young, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations (Ms. Clarke).

And also in the public gallery we have with us Nicole and Daniel Beichter, Sidney Last, Claire Malenko, students of Carman and Elm Creek schools and these are the guests of the honourable Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development (Mr. Pedersen). On behalf of all members here, we welcome all of you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Education Funding Government Record Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, I would like to begin by acknowledging the representatives of teachers and principals across Manitoba who are with us today, and to thank them for the tremendous work that they do on behalf of all our children and educating the future generation of our province. Now, we know that while they're working hard, that their work is getting more difficult under this Premier and under this government. They have underfunded education. They have lifted the cap on K-to-3 class sizes and we see the results today.

We know that there are new PISA test scores that show that Manitobans were last place in math and science and second last when it came to reading. It seems as though we are moving backward here in Manitoba under this Premier. Will the Premier admit–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –that his cuts and lack of investments in education is making things harder for Manitoba students? * (13:50) Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I appreciate the member raising the topic of education.

It's obviously tremendously relevant to all of us, who wouldn't be here without the contributions our teachers have made to our lives, and I hope our students in the gallery remember that and r espect the work their teachers do on their behalf every single day. I also owe a debt of gratitude to my old MTS union because without them I wouldn't have got through university. I obtained a scholarship from the Manitoba Teachers' Society that help ed me, otherwise I'd be back to work and saving again to get back into university. So I say it on a personal level.

I say, thank you, personally, to the MTS for their work on behalf of teachers, on behalf of students all over the province. The member's assertions are false, Madam Speaker. I'll address that in a subsequent question.

334 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: The numbers don't lie. I'll table the chart that shows that in eve ry category measured by the PISA test scores that Manitoba is performing worse, at last measure, after three years of this Premier's leadership than they were in 2015. We know that there are many causes of this, but it's difficult to separate it from the fact that this government has underfunded K-to-12 education since they took office.

Now, of course, this is an important and multi - faceted issue that brings in other topics like mental health and school nutrition programs, but at the heart of it, how can a school system that has more and more students every year and yet is unfunded by this government hope to keep up? Will the Premier simply stand in his place today and announce that he will start adequately funding the K-to-12 education system in Manitoba? Mr. Pallister: Well, I think the member would do wise to demonstrate to the students that he's willing to do research and to be honest about it when he does it.

So, $300 million more invested this year in education than ever under the NDP would be a fact. So, too, would be the fact that the test results were compiled among 15- year-olds, who were educated throughout their entire school life, with the exception of the last year, under a previously administered NDP government; that would be a fact as well. Another fact would be that the results were compiled two years ago and we were in our first year in government at that point in time.

These are all facts, Madam Speaker, which demonstrate that this should not be, as the member attempts to portray it, a partisan issue, but rather should be an issue that motivates us to deal with our education system co-operatively and effectively, as we are doing with our K -to-12 education review, a historic undertaking never undertaken by the previous government despite the fact we were 10th out of 10 in virtually every category under their watch. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, the scores are worse after three years of this Premier. Let me read a quote to you, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: The PISA test scores are, and I quote, more than a wake- up call. They're a compelling indictment of the lack of progress and the lack of action on the part of this provincial government. End quote. Now, who said that, Madam Speaker? Well, that was this Premier back when he was on the opposition side of the House.

So it seems as though the PISA test scores were the be-all-and-end-all marker of educational progress just a few short years ago, and yet after an entire term in government with the test scores sliding in the wrong direction we see yin– yet again that this government is not willing to accept responsibility. Will the Premier simply announce today that he's going to stop cutting school funding? Mr. Pallister: Now, the member wants to pin educational outcomes and test score results on a government after one year when the NDP was in power for 17 and doesn't want responsibility for that.

I'll let the kids in the gallery today reflect on the injustice of that. But the fact remains that undertaking the challenge is exactly what we've done in consultation with over 15,000 Manitobans, Madam Speaker, who are participating, including the MTS and many, many of its members; including parents across the province; including people who work in every aspect of education and people who are concerned with the quality of education. We look forward to receiving those recom - mendations from the K -to-12 education r eview.

We look forward to acting on them in concert and co-operation with the teaching profession, with parents and families and with students right across the province. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Manitoba Schools Class Size Limits Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I'll do my best to hold them back, Madam Speaker, but with these terrible non- answers

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 335 from this government I don't know how long I'll be successful. We know that the Premier knows that he has cut education funding in Manitoba for every year that he has been in office. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: Now, it turns out that underfunding education and lifting the cap on K -to-3 class sizes doesn't actually improve test scores, Madam Speaker. In fact, it makes them much, much worse.

So we see that this government, after a term in office, is failing when it comes to designing and delivering an education that meets the needs of all children in Manitoba. Will the Premier simply stand in his place today and announce that they are going to limit class sizes in ages K to 3 and also begin to adequately fund education in Manitoba? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I've been very clear, as has the MTS, that we don't want these test results to be a way of measuring the teachers in our system, and I think that's a consistent and clear argument that needs to be made.

Nor do I think that it's fair or just to claim that our record on education is anything but one of dedicating ourselves to finding better outcomes after just a year and a half in government, Madam Speaker, which is when these test results were compiled. I would again say to the member –who is trying desperately to score political points on the backs of students who are struggling in our schools –that that should be something that is non-partisan, and, frankly, we should be working together effectively t owards pursuing goals, and that is precisely what this government is doing.

I'd encourage members on the other side of the House to take the attitude of the member for Transcona (Mr. Altomare), who has shared his perspectives with me–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –and I thank him very much for that. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mental Health Supports Mr. Kinew: Well, Madam Speaker, we know that there are many barriers that children face even before they get to the classroom, and this Premier's cuts are making it more difficult on all of them.

Having spoken to many teachers over the past few years, I know that one of the key areas where teachers want more assistance i s on mental health. Time and time again we've heard teachers say: I want to teach. I'm not a mental health expert. I'm not a counsellor. Can you get us assistance outside of the classroom so that when students show up into my classroom that they're ready to learn?

After an entire term in office in which they did absolutely nothing to improve the mental health of young Manitobans, the Premier needs to come up with a comprehensive plan that helps not just those students but also teachers to be able to fulfil l their educational missions. What will the Premier commit to today to actually improve the supports for mental health in Manitoba schools? Mr. Pallister: Well, again, kids, if you're asking a question down here, you have to do research, but the member o pposite missed that memo.

On Monday additional resources –$4.4 million–were announced by this government to enhance mental health and addictions supports in schools. This is in addition to the more than 100 different initiatives in the categories of mental health and addictions that this government has initiated since coming to office. Madam Speaker, our commitments could not be better demonstrated, I don't think, than these commitments I've outlined today. Now, the member, of course, can decry our government and does it on a daily basis.

But that being said, I would encourage him, before he asks the next question, to do a little research. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Nutrition Programs Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, anyone who has spent time in Manitoba schools over this government's term in office knows that they have done nothing to improve mental health in Manitoba. We also know that many students are facing other barriers, such as hunger. Unf ortunately, too many children in Manitoba don't get a healthy breakfast or even a snack before they head off to school.

We've heard from many, many teachers that it's very difficult, if not impossible, for these young students to

336 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 learn while they're dealin g with such foundational issues as hunger. The Manitoba Teachers' Society, many com - munity organizations and Manitobans of all political affiliations have been calling for the creation of a province-wide nutritional program so that every child can go to school with a full belly and an aptitude and readiness for learning. Will the Premier commit today to implementing a Manitoba-wide nutritional program so all of our kids can get a healthy start to their educational careers? * (14:00) Mr.

Pallister: Well, in addition to the lower tax initiatives–which lead the country, by the way –that we've undertaken to leave more money with families, with single parents, of course, who are struggling to raise their children, we have also introduced dozens of programs to enhance the take-home pay or the money that can stay with families. We've also introduced programs to expand our Rent Assist offerings to people who need that help to support themselves and their families, and we do this, of course, with a view to encouraging and strengthening the financial well-being of families who struggle in our province.

Now, we'll continue to do this. This, Madam Speaker, is the fastest growing category of investment that we make–hundreds of millions more invested in this category than the NDP ever did–and we continue to focus on making life better for those families who are struggling and facing challenges in our province today, and that includes, of course, the well -being of young children, who we want to get to school and get educated by our wonderful teaching profession in this province. K-to-12 Education Review Request to Release Report Mr.

Nello Altomare (Transcona): I think we heard previously, if you care, you care about results for students. That's what the Premier (Mr. Pallister) said four years ago when he was auditioning for his job right now. He said it over and over again for months. Now his government has been most improved in the communication -spins piece and –but the PISA numbers show that the situation has gotten worse and not better. Turns out that starving education, cutting small class sizes, didn't improve the outcomes. Imagine that, Madam Speaker. Will this government now change course and meet the needs of our young people? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Education): Madam Speaker, there is a record amount of money that is being invested in the K-to-12 education system today, far more, millions more than there were ever under the NDP. There are 20 new schools that are planned to be built, far more than under the NDP under the same amount of time. We've invested money, $4.4 million on Monday and–Monday, when it comes to mental health, we provided additional money to Project 11 for the True North Youth Foundation to help young students who need help when it comes to mental health as well.

Those are all initiatives that happened under this government. I'm not sure why he wants us to change course and cut those things. Maybe the member can tell us why he wants to end those good initiatives, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altomare: You know, we get this spin from the other side all the time. And you know what –but he can't avoid two things: first, PISA scores are down and not up; he's on his second term not his first – early, mind you, but that's how it goes sometimes.

Four years on the job, Madam Speaker, and things have gotten worse and not better. But the minister's solution to these challenges has been more cuts. I can think about the Child Nutrition Council piece that we had applied for when I was principal at the school–cut. And those pieces allowed us to build community. So through matters under advisement we now know that the minister has a copy of the K -to-12 review. Will the minister release the report today and will he tell us, what does he intend to cut? Mr. Goertzen: Well, I'm going to cut through the misinformation of the member opposite.

I do not have a copy of the K -to-12 commission, although I'm looking forward to getting a copy of the K-to-12 commission. In fact, the PISA results that were officially released today are a justification, a reason why we needed th e K-to-12 commission. I'm very pleased that Manitobans agreed with us. More than 15,000 people, whether online or in person or

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 337 through written submissions, also agreed that they wanted to have input into education. The only ones who don't want to talk about education are the NDP, Madam Speaker. They don't want to look at improving a system because they're the ones who broke it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary. Mr. Altomare: I'm sure with all the 15,000 people that made their contributions to the review, they did that because they're afraid of what's going to happen next.

Education is not keeping up with the growing student population and they cut the small class sizes from K to 3. I personally knew how effective that was, allowing teachers and EAs in the classroom to work individually with students. In the campaign trail in 2016 the Premier (Mr. Pallister) told anyone that would listen that there are two types of answers to a problem: results and excuses. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: Well, time's up, Madam Speaker, and all this minister has got is a bunch of excuses. The minister has a copy of the report.

Will he tell us now what does he intend to cut next? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: Happy to again cut the mis - information. I do not have a copy of the report, but I look forward to getting a copy of the report. The PISA results–the tests were almost two years ago. They were done among 15- year-olds, Madam Speaker. Of the 10 years that they were in the public education system, essentially nine of those were when the NDP were in government. It's a condemnation of the NDP government's education system.

The reason why we needed the K -to-12 com - mission is bec ause, very much, of these results, Madam Speaker. The Premier was right then; he's right now. Results matter. That's why we have the K-to-12 commission. Teaching Experience of Principals Request to Support Bill 204 Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Manitoba educators work hard each and every day to provide a rich learning environment to our children. They've con- tinued to work hard over the last few years since the Pallister government took office to overcome the barriers of increased class sizes with fewer supports.

Every teacher I know is truly passionate about what they do and they're committed to ensuring student success; and for many, being a teacher is a calling, and for those who transition from teacher to principal, the calling is one of leadership, of leading with experience and knowledge. Will the government support Bill 204 today? Hon. Kelvin Goert zen (Minister of Education): Madam Speaker, certainly I think all of us would agree with the sentiments of the member opposite that teachers, professional teachers in our province do a tremendous job, and I think all of us have been impacted in some way.

The class sizes haven't changed in Manitoba over the last few years and, in fact, the funding is still available. We offered the school divisions the options in terms of how to use that funding–whether they wanted to use it on class sizes or in other way s, Madam Speaker, as we wanted to give them a local choice in how they actually use that funding. I don't know why the member opposite, who used to sit as a school trustee, is opposed to that. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Naylor: It seems that the minister opposite did not understand my question about Bill 204. It wasn't answered. We believe that the minister does in fact have a draft of the K -to-12 commission report sitting on his desk, and we know that this government has a track record of commissioning reports to find so- called efficiencies–or more simply put, cuts. Many fear that these efficiencies will be found by replacing principals with corporate managers.

Will the minister ease the concern of Manitoba parents by supporting our bill, which will ensure that principals will continue to be highly trained, experienced and skilled educators? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I have not yet received the K-to-12 commission report. I look forward to receiving the K -to-12 commission report.

338 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 I'm sure there's going to be many lessons to be learned within there. Certainly, when I speak to teachers, Madam Speaker, they want to ensure–and they're pleased that resources continue to come into the classrooms at a record level. As a former school trustee who sat on a school division who funnelled tens of millions of dollars into administration, I'm sure if she spoke to teachers, they would say that they were not pl eased with the tens of millions of dollars that went into administration, instead of into the classrooms, under her watch.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms. Naylor: Bill 204 would provide certainty that our children's education remains in the hands of the professionals who are qualified educators. By requiring a minimum of two years' teaching experience, our bill will ensure that no outside management can come in and run children's public schools, prioritizing those so-called efficiencies over learning outcomes.

This is an opportunity for the minister to set the record straight for parents and be –given that he's evaded my question–completely ignored my question–two times in a row, I will give him one more opportunity to set the record straight. Will he ensure that school principals in this province remain experienced educators? Will the minister support Bill 204? Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I am happy to set the record straight for the member opposite. * (14:10) I am happy to report to her that when I speak to teachers they want the resources that are provided through taxpayers, whether that's at the divisional level or through the Province, to go into classrooms, to go into the front lines. That's what they tell me.

The member opposite, who was a school trustee, who watched as the school division added many, many administrators and paid them hundreds of thousands of dollars–and I won't even talk about the travel budgets–never even said anything about that, now she all of a sudden wants to defend the school system. She should have done that when she had a chance to ensure that those millions of dollars were going into the classrooms and not into administration, Madam Speaker. Liquor Mart Robbery Prevention Placing Police at Locations Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): While sitting down with Liquor Mart employees last week you could feel the fear that these individuals are living with. There is no time to waste, but this government continues to waste time. Employees are asking for one simple thing from this government: to start taking immediate action to curb violence and thefts they are experiencing up to 30 times a day. Will the government place a police officer in each Liquor Mart location today? Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Certainly, Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries are taking proactive measures to reduce the theft in liquor stores and certainly to protect, certainly not only the buying clientele, but certainly the people that work in the stores as well. Certainly, it was interesting conversation we did have with the employees and I know they have come forward with some possible solutions as well, and we will certainly take that under advisement.

We have put together an operations table in - cluding police and Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries, as well as our Crown prosecuting branch, and certainly positive steps will be taken. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Smith: We know the RFP is posted online for the construction of the new secure entrances, but what the minister is not telling people is that the closing date for the RFP is January 9th.

That means no more enhanced security entrances will be built for months, and with the holiday season here we are continuing to see high numbers of thefts in all Liquor Marts across Manitoba. Will the minister protect employees, customers and bystanders, and place a police officer in each liquor store immediately? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Cullen: As I said, Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries are taking proactive steps. Certainly, police officers – still visiting those locations on a regular basis. Certainly, we've also made a number of appre - hensions.

So these individuals that have been causing theft have been taken off the street. We have arrested

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 339 a number of them. A number of them have been prosecuted. A lot of those have led to jail time for these criminal activities, and that is the message to these people that are causing crime in our not only Liquor Marts, but also at the retail level, that there is repercussions for criminal activity. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: Employees themselves have heard that the secure entrances will not be completed until March.

The use of loss prevention, employees have said that this has helped deter offenders, but there are only five officers for 30-plus Liquor Mart stores in our city alone. And until more can be hired and trained, it seems reasonable that the Liquor Marts could hire police to be in their stores in the interim. Will the minister place an officer in each store immediately? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Cullen: Interesting to see the NDP, a newfound awareness of justice in Manitoba. Certainly, we're taking a proactive approach on many different fronts in terms of dealing with criminal activity.

Certainly we are working closely with the prosecutions branch to make sure that individuals are apprehended and they're prosecuted to the full extent of the law. There's a lot of things going on with Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries. We look forward to expanding our discussion with the retail network, as well, over the next several weeks. I know they'll have some positive input for us, in terms of how they move things forward in making sure that we actually are protecting Manitoba's public. Civil Service Act Arbitration Requirement Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): We know that the Pallister government bargains in bad faith. That's why it's more important than ever to have strong protections for workers. Under the current civil service legislation the minister is required to 'point an arbitration board when no agreement has been reached and one of the parties requested–MGEU requested arbitration in July. By law the minister should have appointed the arbitration panel within seven days. Instead, the Pallister government simply ignored the law. Why is this government refusing to follow the law? Hon.

Reg Helwer (Minister responsible for the Civil Service): I'm very pleased yesterday to speak to The Civil Service Act, and I know that we're introducing a new act to replace one that's 134 years old. The member opposite may be still stuck in the 19th century, but we're moving ahead with t he civil service to make sure that we respect the collective bargaining approach. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lindsey: The member from Flin Flon is stuck in following the law. Unfortunately, this government is not.

Section 49(2)– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: –of The Civil Service Act states: When the minister has been requested to appoint– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Lindsey: –an arbitration board, one of the party– by one of the parties, he shall establish one. Not maybe, not perhaps, but he shall establish one. Yet this government refuses to follow the law that says they shall establish one. So in the new law they simply did away with arbitration. So is it just like typical bullies that when they refuse to follow the law, they just change the law?

Will this government quit trampling on workers' rights and follow– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Helwer: Well, again, the member opposite wants to go back to the 19th century and we don't want to do that on this side of the House. We're respecting the collective bargaining process and working with the civil service. They are one of our greatest assets, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: Maybe we can forgive the minister.

He's pretty new to this portfolio, but he shouldn't be new to the requirement for the government–or anyone else, for that matter–to follow the law.

340 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Clauses 48 and 49 in the existing Civil Service Act make this crystal clear. MGEU has requested arbitration. The Pallister government's response has been to just completely ignore that request and to ignore the law. Now they're just going to rewrite the law to take the requirement for arbitration out. Why is this minister rewriting the laws that he is presently breaking? Mr.

Helwer: Well, the member opposite probably knows well about breaking the laws because they went door to door during the election and promised Manitobans that they would not increase the PST, but then what did they do? They repealed–[interjection]– and they went out and, of course, they knew that they were going to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Helwer: –not just increase the PST once, but they talked about increasing it twice, Madam Speaker. So I'll take no lessons from this member opposite. Federal Health Transfers Provincial Health Spending Mr. Dougald Lamont (St.

Boniface): We're concerned the Premier signed a letter yesterday calling on the federal government, simply asking for more money and less accountability. We would like to see health-care spending go up in Manitoba, but it's the Province that has frozen funding. The annual federal increase for health is 3 per cent. The premiers are asking for about twice that that, but since 2016, in Manitoba actual health-care spending has been–increase has been zero.

If the federal government meets those demands, why should we believe that this government will put the money into health care, since they haven't to this point? * (14:20) Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I was pleased yesterday, Madam Speaker, to see–and I know those in the House who care about health care were also pleased to see–all premiers unanimously stand up for health care. I encouraged the Liberal leader to do the same. He appears willing to defend the decisions that Ottawa has made in respect of reducing the incremental increases in health -care funding by 50 per cent. We don't support those.

We have led the charge in unifying premiers against this backward initiative that has seen wait times increase in nine of 10 provinces –not here in Manitoba; but the pressures are growing across the country to provide services to an aging population, a high-needs population. And so all premiers agree, including, I should emphasize to the member, Liberal premiers, New Democratic premiers. All of us stood together for health care while the member appears to want to stand here today against health care. Madam Speaker: The honourable me mber for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Lake St.

Martin Outlet Construction Delays Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): The Premier's joint letter also calls on the federal government to speed up infrastructure projects when, again, it is this province that is dragging its heels. I table a page from the independent parliamentary budget office that shows that provinces have underspent on infrastructure by hundreds of millions of dollars, including Manitoba. The Lake St. Martin project in particular has been delayed by a provincial submission that was missing basic information like maps, lists and charts, and was relying on outdated legislation.

There was no mention of alternatives which this and the previous government spent millions of dollars detailing. Will the Premier admit that the delays related to infrastructure around the Lake St. Martin outlet are due to the bungling and corner cutting of his own government? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I encourage the member to recognize that it was, after all, Manitobans who sent us here and that it could be in his best interest to defend the interests of Manitobans, not the Trudeau government, in this House. But that would be for him to evaluate and f or his constituents to evaluate, as well.

Madam Speaker, the NDP premier in British Columbia has had difficulty with getting local projects built because of an onerous environmental approval process. The mayor of Calgary has spoken out repeatedly. Mayors, premiers across the country are experiencing growing difficulty in getting infra - structure built. This country would be stronger if we could build these projects. I would encourage the member not to stand against Canadians, but to join us in standing f or Canadians and for a stronger Canada, as all premiers are doing.

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 341 Madam Speaker: Just for the information of the House, prior to proceeding with the next question, just so that everybody knows, that the pops that we've been hearing is from static electri city due to atmospheric conditions, so you don't have to be worried about anything else. National Pharmacare Program Government Position Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Yesterday the premiers across Canada got together, and during this meeting our Premier shut down the idea of a pharmacare plan.

What this means is this government is forcing people like our seniors on fixed incomes to choose between food on their table and their prescribed medications. Madam Speaker, in the North End 10 per cent of people are not taking their prescribed medications due to affordability and this Premier is doing nothing to help them. What Manitobans want is leadership on health care and what they saw yesterday, put simply, is disappointing. Why won't this Premier g et on board like other provinces and support a national pharmacare program? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): The federal Liberal government, which, apparently, the Liberal caucus in Manitoba is here to represent, has eroded the quality and access of health care across the country by failing to maintain commitments made by previous governments, including Liberal governments, by allowing funding support to erode to the point that instead of 50-50, or $1 in four, Madam Speaker, we're now down to one in five, and it's going south. The members defend that. Not one premier defends that. Canadians who are waiting for health care aren't defending that.

And, Madam Speaker, I think it's important to understand that all premiers across the country are in agreement that we would like to partner with Ottawa constructively to see better health care available to all Canadians. And I would encourage the members opposite to begin, finally, to represent the best interests of Manitobans on health care, instead of trying to represent the Trudeau government here in this Chamber day after day after day. Keystone Centre New Governance Model Mr. Len Isleifson (Brandon East): Brandon's Keystone Centre is crucial to the Westman economy.

It hosts over 1,500 events every year, from concerts to trade shows. It contributes over $62 million to the region's economy and helps make Brandon the centre of agriculture in Canada. We recently announced that we would be retiring the Keystone Centre's debt to put them on a sustainable financial footing and a new governance model is now in place. I'd like to ask the Minister for Municipal Relations to please update the House on what our government is doing to support the Keystone Centre and what this means for the people of Westman and all of Manitoba. Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Municipal Relations): I'd like to thank my colleague for that question. Last week we were very pleased to be in Brandon with all of our colleagues on this side of the House to work with municipal leaders and people in Brandon to share the good news of this government. One of the groups that we met with was the Keystone Centre and–to talk about a new governance model as well as to secure operational funding of $375,000 a year for the Keystone Centre.

This new governance model and enhanced funding is something that was very welcomed by Mayor Rick Chrest and all folks living in the area that love to enjoy the Keystone Centre. After 17 years of neglect of this wonderful centre, they were very pleased to receive this news last week from our government. Lake Manitoba Outlet First Nations Consultations Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): Madam Speaker, the Pa llister government does not consult in good faith. They have not been fair partners in discharging the duties of the Crown.

Yesterday the Minister of Infrastructure said to the media that First Nations involved in a consultation for the channel project are, quote, really not impacted by this project and that slows the process down. So the minister has already made up his mind about this matter before it has even begun. Is that this government's idea of consultation? Hon. Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Well, first of all, Madam Speaker, for 17 years, if you were to go through Hansard, you would see that the

342 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Lake Manitoba channels were, if ever, rarely mentioned by the NDP. And, secondly, our government has consulted. We have engaged with First Nations and we will continue to do so. I think the member is misrepresenting my words. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Bushie: If the Pallister government is to uphold the honour of the Crown it must engage openly in consultation, yet here we have the Infrastructure Minister telling the media that partners at the table are really not impacted and that their presence is a nuisance that slows the process down. This is disrespec tful and is not what good- faith consultation should look like. Why is the Pallister government consulting in bad faith? Mr. Schuler: Well, Madam Speaker, it's because of the leadership of this Premier and our government that we're even talking about the Lake Manitoba channels.

Madam Speaker, under 17 years of the NDP – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –even with the 2011–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –flood, where there were $1 billion worth of damage was spent, you never heard a word about the Lake Manitoba channels. Madam Speaker, we will continue to work with the communities. The member opposite shouldn't represent–misrepresent the words of a minister. We will continue to engage and consult with all partners around Lake Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Bushie: Moving the yardsticks was the accusation, Madam Speaker. Perhaps this government should get in the game with all the players instead of blaming others for their failures. And I appreciate that the Premier may want–have to once again clean up the Infrastructure Minister's mess, but the issue here is actually really simple: Pallister government has an obligation to consult in good faith with First Nations. Undercutting our First Nations partners will get this government nowhere. It's just a bad-faith effort to paper over this government's failures.

Will the Pallister government retract these comments and commit to consulting in good faith? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I encourage the member to do a little homework. The NDP government proceeded with hydro projects. It eliminated the ability of First Nations to be consulted. It proceeded against the will of northern communities. He knows that and he understands that.

The bipole line, a billion -dollar boondoggle if there ever was one, was built over the backs of indigenous and Metis people in our province. * (14:30) The NDP's answer to these projects, these kinds of projects, is to buy off, to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –pay David Chartrand–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –$70 million to try to buy away the rights of young Metis people to have the chance to exert their own right, in days to come, to object to hydro projects. That's not how we do things. We are consulting. We have a gold standard of consultation.

We'll continue to exercise–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –that gold standard. We will, Madam Speaker, proceed to protect the people of Manitoba, wherever they live, against flooding and disaster, while the members opposite twiddle their thumbs and do nothing. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, we will protect the people of Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired. PETITIONS Personal-Care Homes Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 343 The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba elders and seniors have built this province and should receive a high level of support, having earned the right to be treated with due respect, dignity, understanding and compassion as a fundamental human right. Seniors who reside in personal -care homes have more diverse and complex physical and brain health issues today than those who were in similar homes even just five years ago, yet the staffing formula, or minimum personnel requirement, is over 20 years old.

The issue of the changes to, and more complex nature of, care is being exacerbated by the provincial government policy of discharging people out of hospitals more quickly, leaving many residents still in need of a high level of care. Manitoba does not have enough health-care aides and nurses specifically trained to care for seniors with high and complex levels of physical and mental issues such as those with dementia, coupled with multiple chronic conditions.

The added complexity of care with such residents is putting additional stress on doctors and family members, as it may take six to eight weeks for a doctor to see a resident in a personal-care home. Unfortunately, the lack of quality care received by many residents is not unique, causing one person to say that: It was easier to watch my dad die in the personal-care home than to watch him live in the personal-care home. Staff are so overworked that they are forced to tell senior elders and residents in need: Go in your diaper; I can't help you; or: You will get food eventually.

Relatives are also being told that residents in care homes should not ever expect to walk again after hip or knee replacement surgery because care homes are not set up for rehabilitation. The provincial government has allowed personal- care homes to serve food that is warmed from frozen instead of being freshly cooked, depriving seniors the taste of good food, which is one of the few real pleasures that they would be able to enjoy at this time of life.

Although residents enter personal -care homes to have the best possible quality of life in their last few days, weeks, months or years, relatives repeatedly hear the words: He came here to die; and: She came here to die. Relatives are regularly angry, frustrated, disap - pointed and shocked at the care their loved ones now receive in Manitoba's personal-care homes. Administrators in personal-care homes respond to complaints by stating they need more and better - trained staff.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase training and staffing requirements for personal -care homes in Manitoba to ensure resident s receive high- quality, nutritious food as well as compassionate care. Signed by Dot Sloik, Lynn White, Fred Lylyk, and many, many others. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Further petitions? Early Learning and Child-Care Programs Ms.

Danielle Adams (Thompson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly, the background on the petition is as follows: Early child -care programs in Manitoba require increased funding to stabilize and support the system that is in jeopardy. Licensed, not-for-profit early child –learning and child-care programs have received no new operating funding for over three years, while the cost of living continues to increase annually.

High-quality licensed child care has lasting positive impacts on the child's development and is fundamental for the Manitoba families to contribute to a strong economy. Financial viability for these programs is in jeopardy if they cannot meet the fiscal responsibilities of achieving a balanced budget, as all operating expenses continue to increase. The workforce shortage of trained early childhood educators is continuing to increase; quality child care is dependent on a workforce that is skilled and adequately renumerated.

Accessible, affordable, quality child -care programs must be available to all children and families in Manitoba.

344 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to increase funding for licensed, not -for-profit child-care-centre programs in recognition of the importance of early child care–early learning and child care in Manitoba, which is –which will also improve the quali ty and sustainability of the workforce. Signed by Emmanuel Meredith, Vanessa Meredith, Melody Meredith and many others. Crown Land Leases Mr. Diljeet Brar (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

These are the reasons for this petition: Many farmers, specifically cattle ranchers, will be negatively impacted by the changes to leased Crown land announced by the provincial government on September 27th, 2019. Farmers previously had the ability to strategically plan out the way in which they utilized their leased Crown lands. The announcement reduced leaseholders by 35 years to 15 years, and the lease changes will create great uncertainty, having the potential to impact an entire farm's operations and even existence.

This uncertainty will take away the incentive for farmers to safely invest in their Crown land leases. The potential of losing these leases without the afforded time to plan ahead will create additional stress for the current farming generation and the ones to follow. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Ministe r of Agriculture to reconsider the changes to Crown land leases and instead create an agreeable strategy that satisfies all parties, specifically ranchers;

(2) To urge the Minister of Agriculture to recognize the value of agriculture in the province of Manitoba and the value Crown land holds to farmers in sustaining their livelihood;

(3) To urge the Minister of Agriculture and all honourable members to understand the important role farmers play in the Manitoba economy and to allow them to take

part in d iscussions that directly impact their livelihood. This has been signed by many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Would you please call for debate and passage of Bill 9, The Public Services Sustainability Amendment Act; following the passage of that bill, Bill 4, The Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act; following its passage, Bill 5, The Liquor, Gaming and Cannabis Control Amendment Act.

And if time remains following the passage of those three bills, I'd be happy to provide the House with additional bills for debate and passage. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider second readings of bills 9, 4 and 5 this afternoon. SECOND READINGS Bill 9–The Public Services Sustainability Amendment Act Madam Speaker: So starting, then, with second reading of Bill 9, The Public Services Sustainability Amendment Act. Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Central Services): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Cullen), that Bill 9, The Public Services Sustainability Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and I table the message. * (14:40) Madam Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Minister of Central Services, seconded by the honourable Minister of Justice, that Bill 9, The Public Services Sustainability Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor has been advised of the bill, and the message has been tabled. Mr.

Helwer: I present to you Bill 9, which is new legislation that furthers the government's ongoing commitment to support and encourage collective

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 345 bargaining and will enhance opportunities for employers and unions to work together on innovative ideas. Since the introduction of The Public Services Sustainability Act, the government has listened t o suggestions that have come from both employers and unions on how it may be improved. This bill provides amendments that allow for even greater flexibility for public sector employers and unions to bargain while still maintaining our government's commitme nt to fixing the finances and ensuring sustainability.

This bill allows for greater flexibility and discretion by broadening how sustainability savings can be used. Now all or some of the identified savings can be used to finance an increase in salary. T he broader use of sustainability savings provides an opportunity for employers and unions to work towards finding mutual benefits and transformational change.

There is now a greater flexibility on the timing and duration of the sustainability period, whi ch will allow for flexibility around how the sustainability period is met, while still ensuring the sustainability period is temporary and does not exceed four years. Since the government first introduced The Public Services Sustainability Act, collective bargaining is happening and continues with these amendments. As a result, many more organizations have already reached a collective agreement that meets the sus - tainability period.

The amendments will provide further clarification to first colle ctive agreements negotiated between the date The Public Services Sustainability Act was first introduced up until these amendments. The bill also provides further clarification regarding employers covered under this act. Health organizations will now be identified through regulation which will allow for improved clarity. Doctors Manitoba will no longer be covered under this act, as they have already reached an agreement that meets the intent of the act.

The amendments also recognize that some employees in certain trades or sectors may need to be exempt to address unique circumstances, such as shortage of skilled trades. The amendments now allow exemptions to address these issues. The bill also provides for more discretion. As an example, the minister m ay approve additional remu- neration, so long as increases are relatively modest during the sustainability period. Public sector collective bargaining has certainly continued since this government first introduced The Public Services Sustainability Act in March of 2017.

Collective bargaining is happening and will continue with these amendments. We will continue to en courage employers and unions to work together at the bargaining table to find innovative ideas that will ensure sustainability of our public services. This has been an all -hands-on-deck approach for the benefit of all Manitobans. It will help fix our finances while protecting public services and encourage creative collective bargaining while treating all employees fairly. Thank you for your consideration of this bill. Questions Madam Speaker: A question period of up to 15 minutes will be held.

Questions may be addressed to the minister by any member in the following sequence: first question by the official opposition critic or designate, subsequent questions asked by critics or designates from other recognized opposition parties, subsequent questions asked by each inde - pendent member, remaining questions asked by any opposition members; and no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): It's unfortunate that I have to stand up and ask questions about this bill which is probably unconstitutional, as well as the one that it's trying to fix.

So the Auditor General has already made it very clear that this financial crisis that this government claims to be operating under isn't in existence. So why does this minister feel there is still a need to use this kind of aggressive tactic to take on workers? Hon. Reg Helwer (Minister of Central Services): Well, perhaps the member opposite is reading different books than we released in the Public Accounts that still show a deficit for this government. Obviously, we're working hard to return to balance. We're not there yet, and we have been working with many partners along the path here.

He referenced the 'constitutiality' of this –the former bill, and we'll hear from the court how that – they'll rule on that. We're waiting for their ruling as we continue, Madam Speaker. Mr. Lindsey: It's unfortunate that, while this government chooses to wait for the court process to

346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 rule on the unconstitutional bill that they've got before it, they continue to introduce bills like this in a bogus attempt to try and make believe they're fixing the problems with the previous bill. So why does this government refuse to respect the arbitration process? Mr. Helwer: We're working with all groups along the way here. I'm sure the member opposite participated in committee that listened –that presented the former bill.

And we listened to the presenters at that committee, Madam Speaker, and made changes to–in the amendments that we are moving ahead were–with. We're responsibly manning–managing resources. I'd like to point out that we have since signed 45 collective agreements that represent over 14,000 members of various unions. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, my question is –the original bill is there but not actually implemented –is the minister's intent to implement these changes along with what's left of the original bill after these amendments? Mr.

Helwer: Well, we are discussing the public services 'sustainbalaime' amendment act. The previous bill went to committee and it's about–presently in court, so we won't comment on that particular bill, Madam Speaker, but we're looking at how we can improve the situation for both the Manitoba governme nt and the unions and their members. Mr. Lindsey: Clearly, the government isn't really interested in what they claim they are; otherwise, they would have proclaimed the previous bill that they refuse to proclaim.

Now he talks about the number of collective agreements that have been negotiated with that threat hanging over working people's heads. So, instead of proclaiming it and taking their chances in court, they try and do an end run. So will the minister actually 'procran' –proclaim this law, if he passes it, or will he just leave it hanging out there, too? Mr. Helwer: Well, I think the member opposite is confused about the powers of this particular minister anyway. I can't proclaim a bill. That is not within my jurisdiction.

We're working with various parties to make sure that we follow the collective bargaining process. And while we have had several agreements already, we expect that another 40,000 employees are soon going to enter negotiations for bargaining, and we'll see how those outcomes –what th ose outcomes are, Madam Speaker. But you enter into collective bargaining with good intentions, and I'm not sure what –the other member is insinuating that we don't. We certainly do, Madam Speaker. Mr.

Lindsey: It's funny that the minister talks about entering into collective bargaining process with good intentions when in fact, they specifically passed laws and didn't proclaim them that played with the bargaining process and violated the collective bargaining process and made it impossible to actually follow the collective bargaining process for those workers that wanted to negotiate properly and freely. So will this minister actually just come to his senses and drop this bill and sit down and negotiate properly with workers in this province? Mr.

Helwer: Well, I 'reitelate'–reiterate that we have 45 collective agreements that have been signed, representing over 14,000 employees. Whether or not the previous bill was passed into law or not, this is similar to several pieces of legislation that I saw when we were in opposition, Madam Speaker, that the previous government sat on and never proclaimed. So we're moving ahead with collective agreement bargaining, and we expect that to continue, Madam Speaker. * (14:50) Mr.

Lindsey: It's kind of telling that the government really doesn't have that much faith in the constitu - tionality of the previous bill that they introduced, because they won't proclaim it. So then, instead of doing that, they introduced this Bill 9; well, for the second time now, they've i ntroduced this bill that, again, doesn't respect the collective bargaining process, doesn't respect the constitutionally protected collective bargaining process. So will the minister withdraw the bill that's presently before the courts and this bill and actually sit down and negotiate with working people in this province? Mr.

Helwer: Again, I'm a little mystified by the questioning here. We have successively signed 45 collector agreements, and we expect that we will be in negotiation for many more. So we are listening and negotiating with the various unions on this. These amendments that were

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 347 presently before us are there to improve the bill that he references, and we've listened to people, and we're acting. Mr. Lindsey: It's unfortunate that the minis ter talks about they've successfully negotiated 45 collective agreements, but they haven't fairly negotiated 45 collective agreements. There is a rather startling, subtle difference there that the minister refuses to accept. So why, with this new bill, does the minister wish to continue meddling in the collective bargaining process rather than negotiating in good faith? Mr.

Helwer: Well, interesting question, Madam Speaker. Are you –is the member opposite actually accusing the government of bargaining i n back–bad faith? Is that is–what he is accusing? Does he wish to step outside, perhaps, make those accusations, Madam Speaker? We don't force the other party to sign a collective agreement. They come forward in negotiations in good faith, as does the government. But perhaps he doesn't understand that both parties come to that negotiation and decides whether to sign that collective 'agreenerment' or not, Madam Speaker. Ms.

Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): This minister is amending a law that the courts have not yet determined is legal. Has the minister sought out legal advice to determine whether his amendments are likely to survive a court challenge? Mr. Helwer: Well, I guess in answer to that, we can only deal with what we know. There is a court challenge for the bill that this amends, and we'll wait to see what the court rules on that.

In the meantime, we have worked with various members through committees and listened to people, listened to Manitobans, listened to unions and come up with some solutions that we believe improve that particular act in these amendments. Mr. Lindsey: I did participate in some of the committee hearings into the bill that's under t he purview of the court at the moment. And clearly the minister didn't listen to a goodly portion of Manitobans who came out and talked about the unconstitutional aspects of that bill, talked about how it wasn't bargaining in good faith by mandating as opposed to negotiating.

So the minister's threats to take me outside really are meaningless. So I'll ask the minister again: Will he withdraw his unconstitutional bills and sit down and negotiate freely and fairly with workers in this province? Mr. Helwer: Well, the member opposite seems to have appointed hims elf a judge, which I don't recall seeing that publicly occur. The bill, the previous bill, is before the court. We'll await the court's decision. We don't presuppose what's going to happen. The government presents its case, the union has presented its ca se, and we will await to see what the court decides.

I don't imagine that the member opposite has the ability to make that decision, but he can always surprise me with things. Mr. Lindsey: Does the minister admit that these changes that he's made in this bill now will potentially show favouritism towards one group of employees as opposed to another group of employees, by deciding that some employees may get a raise while the others will not? Mr.

Helwer: Perhaps I have a different understanding of the colle ctive bargaining process and the agree - ments that are signed, but those dictate what we do with the various members of that particular agreement do, Madam Speaker. It's not something that the government can pick and choose. We do feel that we will maintain our commitment to fix the finances and protect public services, but through this, we're also creating more flexibility and opportunities for employers and unions to bargain and work together. Mr.

Lindsey: It's unfortunate that, clearly, the minister does n't understand what's in this Bill 9, because it very clearly makes exceptions that says that some groups can get a raise, but then it says, well, the rest of the employees in that group will have to bear the brunt of that. So, clearly, the minister is pic king sides in who can get ahead and who can't, rather than negotiating fairly and honestly with workers. So will he withdraw those provisions and negotiate in good faith with workers? Mr. Helwer: We continue to negotiate in good faith as we have in the past. I'm not sure what the member's referring to.

Perhaps, he's–he was referring to the fact that Doctors Manitoba don't have to be a part of this bill anymore, because they have agreed and they have moved ahead with an agreement that was signed and– through the normal collective bargaining process, Madam Speaker.

348 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 Mr. Lindsey: Yes, the Doctors Manitoba did successfully arbitrate an increase in their pay. So, now, this new bill, and some of the other things that the government has introduced in some other bill s, takes away the right of arbitration, and, in fact, this bill says, now, if you arbitrate –get an arbitrated increase, that it's null and void. So not only have they interfered with the collective bargaining process, now they're interfering with arbitrato rs' ability to make rulings. Will the minister withdraw this bill? Mr.

Helwer: I think we should emphasize that, by broadening how sustainability savings can be used to encourage the kind of mutual approach taken in the Doctors Manitoba agreement, we can be more flexible around the timing and duration of the sustainability period. There's more discretion around non- salary remuneration and benefits. And it's just a continuous work, Madam Speaker, that we work through to make sure that we are appropriately b arganing through our process. Mr. Lindsey: Well, Madam Speaker, you know, this government has been found guilty of bargaining in bear–bad faith in the past.

And I don't want to see them found guilty of bargaining in bad faith again. And apparently neither to do they. That's why they've instituted these bills that supercede colletive barganing. Will this minister really sit down with public sector workers, show them the respect they deserve and negotiate fairly and freely, as they are protected under the constitution to do so? Will this minister do that now and withdraw these bills? Mr. Helwer: Well, I'd like to reinforce that we did inherit a long -term legacy of debt and challenges from the previous government, and fixing that is going to take some time.

The public sector bargaining is just one part of the all -hands-on-deck approach and we have been successful with 45 collective agreements that have been signed, representing over 14,000 employees, Madam Speaker. So I think success speaks for itself. Madam Speaker: The time for this question period has ended. Debate Madam Speaker: The floor is open for debate. MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Thank you, Madam Speaker. [interjection] Oh, wow, thank you so much.

Thank you to my very supportive colleagues over on the side in our caucus. * (15:00) So, Madam Speaker, I think I'd like to spend my time really speaking through the lens of being a registered psychiatric nurse, because that's what I've spent, you know –previous to being elected the MLA for Union Station, for which I'm very grateful, I was a nurse –technically still am a registered psychiatric nurse–for well over a decade, and part of the reason why I ran under the NDP banner is because our team really values our public services.

So the NDP, as a whole, has historically –and certainly currently and ongoingly –just really values our public services like health care, like education, and really respects and values the dedicated front-line workers who work very, very hard, day in and day out, to provide them. I think that's evident by, you know, a lot of the relationship building that we continue to do in community. It's evidenced by the many folks in all of those areas that are reaching out to us on a daily basis to express their concerns and their experiences and frustrations with what's been going on under this current government.

And it's also evidenced by –and as evidenced by, just in case folks don't know, is a term that we use in health ca re when we document. When we do any charting, we say as evidenced by when we're explaining something in our documentation. So I would argue that, you know, as evidenced by the folks in our caucus, we have, you know, former educators and folks who are currently still doing a lot of education in communities. We have folks in our caucus who, you know, have worked front -line worker jobs, whether that's, for example, the member for St. James (Mr.

Sala), who, you know, did a lot of front-line work with youth in communities and really understands on that level, as well, the importance of making sure that our front -line service providers and public service workers aren't under, you know, the undue stress and dealing with some of the circumstances that have been cr eated due to this government's approach. Mr.

Greg Nesbitt, Acting Speaker, in the Chair And speaking specifically to this bill, you know, it's because of the value that we place in our public service workers and health -care providers and educators and f ront-line workers that we strongly oppose this bill. We believe that all Manitobans and all Manitoban workers, rather, have the right to fair

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 349 wages, have the right to bargain in good faith, and have the right to have their collective bargaining agreements respected. You know, for myself, I remember –and I was working as a nurse at that time –I remember that this Premier (Mr. Pallister)–and I'm sure Manitobans will not forget that this Premier campaigned on a promise to protect front-line workers and public services back in 2016, and the Premier has broken that promise–and you know, members opposite like to talk a lot about promises kept.

Well, that's a promise that was broken, and I can see that as somebody who, you know, was working as a nurse, and to see t hat promise not only broken but basically immediately to see, you know, folks in government giving them –they gave themselves a 20 per cent raise while freezing the wages of public service workers, which is really –it's pretty shameful, actually, I would say.

And, you know, when you have folks who are – and to be honest, I don't really know –I would argue that, you know, not everyone may be, across the way, members opposite –but certainly I would argue that there's a lack of real understanding in terms of what it is, and I'll speak specifically to nurses in terms of front-line service workers.

A lack of understanding as to what, you know, nurses are really dealing with day in and day out on the job, and that was made pretty clear to many of my nursing colleagues who I heard from on a –multiple times a day when–I don't think it was even a year ago that ad campaign came out that had, I think nurses, like, skiing or something, and spa, face masks, and just this truly, quite insulting, actually, I would say, campaign, that really offended so many front -line service providers, and really upset, understandably, nurses who felt like, you know, this government couldn't possibly understand what they were doing at their jobs to put out a campaign like that.

And, you know, I still hear from nurses who, inevitably, when they're under the tremendous amount of stress that they are at their jobs, working just ongoing hours, mandated overtime hours, they reflect on that and think, you know, it's disappointing. And for them, it's –they reflect on that campaign and think, yes, we knew then that this government really didn't understand, or doesn't understand, what we do, doesn't maybe even respectfully how hard we're working to provide care every single day to Manitobans across this province.

And, you know, when we look at a decision like freezing wages or trying to interfere with, you know, the right to collectively bargain, I don't think many folks across the way understand, perhaps, you know, the realities of what it means to be a nurse working generally, never mind in a system that is right now lacking capacity. And, you know, I think about the fact that I used to work many mandated overtime shifts at times.

And I know people; I'm hearing from them daily, from colleagues of mine who are working mandated overtime at various hospitals, and they're telling me that, you know, it's hard enough to work an eight-hour shift and have any energy to go home and spend time with their families, to take care of their lives, to have a good work-life balance, to decompress and debrief. It's hard enough when a system's been thrown into chaos and there's a serious lack of capacity.

It's hard enough to have a balance in their lives, you know, when they're working an eight-hour shift, never mind working these tremendous amounts of mandated overtime hours that we're seeing. It really–and I'm not sure if–how many people really know what that could look like.

So, you know, I can say that, you know, if you're working, you know, a mandated overtime shift, and also knowing that you're not going to see an increase in your wages for quite some time, for potentially several years, knowing that not only am I, you know, going into my job and I have no idea if I'm going to be able to be go home at the end of the day to my family, no idea if I'm going home at the end of the day to the plans that I had arranged to make dinner, to just, you know, watch a show and relax, but also, as well, no idea when I might see, you know, an increase in what I'm earning, that just creates another level of compounded impactive stress on our front -line workers, on our nurses, when we're asking them to, you know, provide the absolute best care to patients on a daily basis.

I remember, you know –I remember working an overtime shift once and being so exhausted at the end of the shift that I couldn't even make the drive home. I remember being so tired at the end of this particular overtime shift that I actually had to pull over and sleep in my car because I knew it wasn't safe for me to keep driving on the highway to get home. And when I think about how I felt at that time and I hear from folks working right now in our hospitals, when I hear from them that they're working mandated overtime in a way they've never had to do before and

350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 I reflect on what that was like for myself at times and nowhere near the way that we're seeing this happen with nurses right now, I have a tremendous amount of concern for, you know, my nurse colleagues and friends and community members in terms of how they're able to take care of themselves and how they– you know, you get home after working a 16-hour day; you've only got a certain amount of time where you can maybe get home and have something to eat, decompress after what was probably a very busy shift, you know. * (15:10) Best of days an eight-hour shift, you're doing so, so much–I'm doing this so that you can also hear what I'm–my–[interjection] You're welcome.

You know, you're working an eight -hour shift sometimes where you don't get to–you don't even use the w ashroom. I remember times working where it's like it's so busy you're running around so much and you want to provide the best care. You don't want to leave folks waiting for their medications, you know, their as-needed medications. You want to make sure you meet with every family member who's coming in to see their loved one.

You want to make sure that as soon as that person is saying they need your help or they want to talk to you that you can give them that attention, and sometimes you just completely don 't even realize that you haven't had lunch; you haven't taken a break; you haven't used the washroom. You just forget those things. Now, multiply that by two when you're working twice as long. You're working in a system with less capacity. You have been stuck at the same wage for, you know, so long and you don't know when that's going to end or change. You don't know what your collective bargaining rights are going to look like.

You're stressed out about what's going on right now with this government because you know that, you know, year after year and seemingly month after month, the cost of living is going up. You know, things are getting more expensive.

You know, maybe you're like one of the nurses that was basic–that was fired by this government and you had to reapply for a position that you didn't even anticipate you'd have to reapply for because, you know, you've got your nursing education and you specialized and you focused on a stream that you are passionate about, and then all of a sudden, you know, this government comes in, freezes your wages, tells you, you can't work that job that you specialized in for your studies and that you've been continuing your 'compentencies' for every single year, going to professional development, doing work in community, and says, you know what, can't have that job anymore; we're firing you from that position; go ahead–in a tunnel, go look at a pos ting with a bunch of other nurses who are in the same position, if not worse, than you and apply for something else that maybe you're not quite as passionate about.

You've got all of that on your plate in your mind, on your heart, and you're still showing up, day in and day out, at your job because you love what you do. You want to do the best for your patients and you're doing all of that knowing that you're not going to see a wage increase. You can't keep up with bills. You– maybe you even had to change where you live.

Maybe you chose your place of employment, like many people do, like many people who are gain–have the privilege to be gainfully employed do, you chose the place that you work because it was close to where your kids go to school or it was close to a family member who you provide support for.

And, you know, not only did you lose the position and have to reapply for a job somewhere else that's not as convenient, but now your children's school and your daycare and your loved one who you lived by that you could provide support for, they're way over there and now you're working somewhere else and you're making not the amount of money that you would need to make because now you've got to go even further to get to this job, and you're making, you know, no more money than you were previously. You don't know when you're going to be seeing any more dollars.

Maybe you're paying more for child care because now your kids are–they're still going there, but you've got to extend the hours that they're bein g seen because it takes you that much longer. Like, there are so many things that I hear from nurses on a regular basis that they're having to navigate and deal with as a result of this government, and I really and truly think fundamentally as a result of this government really not understanding nor respecting, really and truly, what nurses do in their day-to-day jobs and careers and what nurses do their very best to do.

You know, it is no shock to maybe some, certainly not to myself based on what I know to the history of, you know, Conservative caucuses and government to do, that nurses in a profession that is still highly–that highly employs women, those who identify as women, it's disappointing to see a very

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 351 obvious and strategic attack on front -line s ervice workers who are nurses. I'm not quite sure how else to name it other than it really appears to be something that is rooted in sexism, and I say that knowing the weight of the words that I use. You know, when you look at who is most impacted by thes e–the freezing of wages, by a bill that would, you know, really deny folks the right, their fundamental right, to collective bargaining, it is women.

You know, when you look at who's impacted by even the campaign that we saw, that really insulting ad campaign that we saw, it was women. And so I would say that primarily the folks that I'm actually hearing from, who are expressing their frustration and disappointment and concern and fears as to what's to come now rurally, because we know face–we know phase t wo is going to look a lot like what's been going on in Winnipeg. It's women I'm hearing from, really and truly.

And, you know, when I think about phase two and what's to come, I think we already know what's to come–more cuts, more closures and more front -line service workers not being heard, not being involved in conversations that they should, not be listened to, not being respected as workers who provide care that all Manitobans are trying desperately to access in an equitable way. And, you know, it's s omething that we have to make sure, and I certainly, as the critic for Health, I want to make sure that we can shine a light on him and be really clear about what's actually going on here.

So, when I share these stories and I think I'll probably share, you know, ones that folks have told me personally–and I've heard a number of them now, you know, even before the election wrapped up, folks were–folks knew that I, you know, am a registered psychiatric nurse, an addictions specialist and all this community work and folks really seemed comfortable sharing with me what their experiences have been.

And, you know, when we talk about what's going on right now, we can't separate, you know, a bill like this from, you know, the impact that this agenda that this government is moving forward with is having on Manitoba families. You know, because it's Manitoba families that are accessing the services where front - line workers are trying to perform their best and are really, you know, in the midst of all of this chaos that has been created as a result of this government's decision making–reckless decision making at times.

It really is the families that I know nurses and front-line workers are truly most concerned about. You know, every nurse that I know–and I have nurses that are very close to me, you know, whether that's through family and friends and community. It's actually, you know, their concerns about the unconstitutional bills are secondary to their concerns about how Manitoba families are accessing the services that they are providing. You know, I got –I have a message actually just today from somebody who was at a hospital and is concerned about what they're seeing when they go in there.

They're, you know, someone who's saying, you know, front -line service workers are doing their absolute best under just a tremendous amount of stress and looming unconstitutional bills like Bill 9 that would further undermine their abilities to just, you know, be gainfully employed and equipped with what they need in order to feel c ompetent and secure in their roles, whether that be, you know, nurses who work in community; whether that be nurses who work in hospital; maybe nurses who do both; you know, even nurses who work, you know, semi-independently.

There are nurses who work in a number of different roles now and all are expressing their concerns but, again, I would say that their concerns about potential unconstitutional bills like Bill 9 are really secondary to their concerns about, you know, the way that Manitoba families are able to access services in this province and certainly now hearing from folks who are concerned about what that means accessing services in rural areas.

You know, it's no surprise to me because, like I said, I knew back when I saw that ad come out that this government really and truly had a serious lack of understanding, respect for the work that our nurses are putting in day in and day out and so I'm not –I wasn't surprised at all that phase two made absolutely no commitment to hire the people–the actual people not, you know–they had a lot of graphs and some other images in there, and a lot of vague and broad speak.

But there is no commitment in phase two to hire the people to provide the care. * (15:20) You know, for a government to fire nurses –and actually I think it was the Minister for Health –his language was something along the lines of –it was: We've given nurses an opportunity to reinvent themselves.

352 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 And I actually want to talk a bit about just how insulting that line was, just how deeply not respectful that kind of statement is in regards to nurses having an opportunity to reinvent themselves. And, again, I think it speaks to also a lack of understanding. You know, many nurses–all nurses spend years to get their degree, but there's a significant amo unt of education and training and process and maintaining of standards and core competencies that you have to work at to maintain your licence.

So it's not just a matter of showing up and working, you know, 1,800 to 2,000 hours every time in a four-year cycle. It's–or, sorry, in a one-year cycle. It's actually about maintaining your core com - petencies. And, if I want to specialize in something else, again, for example, I want to get my advanced cardiac training as a nurse, that is a specialized type of training.

It's a specialized type of training that costs a lot of money, you know, money that a lot of nurses probably won't be able to afford given that their wages have been frozen, given that, you know, this government is trying to look at ways to prevent nurses from earning more money in a career and a job that has a tremendous amount of stress and responsibility. But, going back to my point, the fact that in order to be in any stream where you specialize in nursing, or just to maintain your licensure, you have to maintain your core competencies.

You have to get training in education, and if you take any sort of advanced training where you specialize in a specific way, then that requires training that often–most often requires ongoing recertification. So, when, you know, the Minister for Health makes statements that it's an opportunity for nurses to reinvent themselves, I really think he lacks an understanding of just how much time and money and personal resource and passion and commitment goes into learning those skills, maintaining those skills. Some aspects of specializing requires nurses to take off a full year.

You don't even–you just focus on that stream for a full year and that's what you're doing to learn that specialized skill, to make sure that when a family shows up in that specific department in the hospital, they have someone who is solely dedicated to that–that has put the time and the work in, and is an expert in that area. And to just, you know, kind of flippantly say that it's an opportunity to reinvent themselves really dismisses the significance of that level of commitment and passion and education and personal investment that folks have made.

And, again, I reiterate, you know, that folks may not be able to make should decisions or attempts to pass bills like this continue and really prohibit nurses from simply being able to earn an equitable living and keep up with the cost of living and everything else that we're seeing . That's not an unreal –an unreasonable expectation or part of, you know, working in this health-care system.

And so, you know, it didn't –it disappointed me, but it didn't surprise me given what we've seen, given what I saw as a registered psychiatric nurse, working in our systems doing the absolute best alongside some really incredible, incredible nurses who I won't name as I don't know if they'd be totally comfortable with that here, but just really and truly incredible nurses who show up every day on the job, so excited to be there, wanting to put their best effort forward for going–like I said, breaks and lunches, time with their own families, to make sure that Manitoba families who are accessing health care have the best possible experience.

And someti mes, you know, you're meeting families on their worst day. You're meeting families during their worst time, and you're doing the best that you can to make it the most comfortable, respectful, dignified process that you possibly can. And the last thing that our front-line service workers need is to be further stressed and undermined as they're simply trying to do their jobs and provide the best care they can for Manitobans.

And so, again, I wasn't too surprised, but I was disappointed, that phase 2 made abs olutely no commitment whatsoever to hire the people to provide care to–not a single commitment or mention of hiring nurses or doctors or other critically needed front -line workers in rural Manitoba.

I mean, you know, the interesting thing is that, in fact, when we're talking about phase 2 and the impact on rural Manitoba, I think about the initiatives that actually have been cut by this government that would've incentivized folks to work rurally, which, to me, is just like, you know, it doesn't even really make a whole lot of sense, you know. It's–we all know it's–it can be challenging to, for a number of reasons, a myriad of reasons, to staff rurally, but it doesn't mean that you undermine and you cut resources rurally. It means that you start listening to the folks who are there, who have the

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 353 expertise; you listen to them, you work alongside them, you figure out what they need, and none of that is mentioned in phase 2. No front -line workers were even meaningfully consulted; you know, again, none of those commitments made, after they've already actually cancelled a $4.2 -million program that recruited doctors to work in rural communities.

So, I mean, none of that really, when you think about what we know is to come in rural Manitoba, we have a system here in Winnipeg that is still reeling – reeling–after these rushed and reckless cuts and closures, firing of nurses, just this callous approach to–I mean, you can't even call it relationship building with front-line service workers or nurses. You can't call it that because it's absolutely not what it is.

So, you know, when we see phase 2 being presented, the concerns that folks are already expressing are entirely valid, and I think it's just–it's really important to–for me to say that, you know, I'm proud to be a part of this NDP caucus and this team, this NDP team, that is on the side of Manitoba workers. [interjection] Yes, it was good. We're j ust– yes, we're a team. You know, we're going to continue to fight for the rights of workers.

We're going to continue to fight for better pensions and fair wages while this Pallister government continues to attack labour and attack nurses and attack front -line service workers and not listen to the folks who are the experts and who know what's going on and who are really and truly just asking for their voices to be heard, who are really and truly just asking for the resources to do their jobs the best way possible. And that's not really a big ask; that's a fair ask.

And the least that this government can do is not only listen but actually work actively alongside the folks who are providing this care and these services, day in and day out. And so I think, you know, lastly, what I'd like to talk about is, you know, the fact that it is –it's really a privilege to be in a position, as I'm sure it is for all of my colleagues, you know, in the House, but it's really a privilege to be in a position where Manitoba families, front -line service workers, public service workers reach out and share what is actually going on.

And, you know, the government can, and this Pallister government can, you know, kind of present things as they want to and as they will to try and make things appear better than they are, to minimize the realities that folks are continuing to show up and perform in every single day in Manitoba.

But it's really a privilege and an honour to be able to be a public servant in this role and to be someone that folks are coming to and sharing their experiences with and their concerns and their hopes –and their hopes–not just the things that they're worried about, but their actual hopes, because, really, everybody wants a health -care system that is equitable and fair for not only front -line service workers and public servants, but for Manitoba families, actually, I would say, first and foremost.

And, you know, we don't support this bill because it doesn't support our front -line service workers and public sector workers and– The Acting Speaker (Greg Nesbitt): The member's time has expired. * (15:30) Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): It is my honour, my duty, my privilege and my expectation that I get up here and stand and speak on behalf of Bill 9, against Bill 9, and against the intent of Bill 9.

This is nothing more than a distraction, nothing more than a dictatorship that is being imposed on Manitobans, hard- working Manitobans, that this government claims to represent, claims to speak on behalf of, claims to have consulted with. With Bill 28 being challenged in court by the Federation of Labour, the minister puts forward Bill 9 to distract from the substance of Bill 28. Bill 9–this bill undermines the role of arbitrators, gives the minister the authority to determine wages for public sector workers.

Changes to the collective bargain process should be done in good faith, with negotiators, not through heavy-handed legislation. As it's clear, this is now becoming a dictatorship; it's not a democracy. It's s omething that's being imposed, being heavy -handed. We believe that all Manitoban workers have the right to fair wages, the right to bargain in good faith and to have their collective bargaining agreements respected and honoured. We spoke the words bad faith earlier in question period, and that's exactly the tone of what Bill 9 is all about.

It's about–it's bad faith negotiations, if you can even call it and use the word negotiations. It's a heavy- handed approach and a dictatorship, and something that is just trying to be imposed, and that's why we are strongly opposed to this bill.

354 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 3, 2019 The Supreme Court of Canada has clearly ruled that collective bargaining is a protected right under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and let's not forget that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) campaigned on a promise to protect front -line workers and public services in 2016, and again the second term, and now here he is interfering with worker's rights.

He's made deep cuts to health care and education, inc luding casting $1 billion in health projects, underspending by over $200 million, now phase 2 is about to roll out, and we know even more health- care services will be cut, putting Manitobans at risk. It's no more than a bait and switch. I'm going to cut, I'm going to cut, I'm going to cut, then I'm going to reinvest that same money that I cut, so now I can look like I'm going ahead and giving, giving, giving, when meanwhile, behind your back, I take and take and take it.

It reminds of a simple thing of just going to a retail store that you're used to buying the same product over and over. How would we feel if somebody went and bought a jug of milk, a four litre jug of milk, every day, every day, every day, and slowly, a quarter of it is taken this year, a quarter next year, a quarter next year, until really you're only getting a quarter of what you spent, but somebody comes to you and says, here, I'm going to put three quarters back. Well, where are you? You're exactly where you were in the beginning.

So, again, it's that dictatorship and that bait and switch of being able to try and interfere and dictate with how we live our lives here in Manitoba. While the Premier is heading into the new year with a budget surplus, he refuses to raise minimum wage, hi kes up tuition fees, lays off workers, and cancels important health and education infrastructure projects that are beneficial to Manitobans. Again, not reflective of the cost of living, and, in particular, as I stand here, not reflective of the cost of living of people in the North.

Not exactly fair to what they do and what they need, and what their paycheques are. I've heard talk of more money on the kitchen table. I wish I had money to put on the kitchen table. I want money in my wallet so I can go out and provide for my family. What do you leave on the kitchen table? You leave loose change on the kitchen table. So that's exactly what this government is doing– nothing but loose change, handouts, crumbs, and then telling those hard -working Manitobans, oh, by the way, I'm going to limit what you make, anyway.

You can't go out and make a decent living because I'm going to limit what you can take home, and that is, quite frankly, disgustful. The Premier claims to be a team player, yet from him we've seen –from him so far we've seen everything to suggest otherwise. He refuses to sit down at the bargaining table with the unions, and instead imposes anti-worker legislation. He refuses to work with the federal government to come up with a health-care deal and Manitoba is still the last province to sign on to the agreement. He'd rather sit here and blame, blame, blame.

It's easy to blame everybody else when you have no answers for yourself. Again, switching, switching, switching, deflect - ing exactly what this mean s. Deflecting–trying to sit there and take credit for I'm balancing the books, of getting us ahead. I have a surplus, but really at the expense of what? It's at the expense of hard- working Manitobans. Manitobans that aren't getting rich, they're not winning the lottery. They're just simply trying to make a living, trying to get by, trying to be treated fairly.

Something that, in a democracy, should be something that's a standard, not something that's the exception; it should be the rule. Again, that gets in to being the word I use –dictatorship. I know what's best for you, that's the clear message from this Premier, it's: I know what's best for you. We're extremely disappointed to see that this government's tactic is not to negotiate or collaborate with Manitoba's public sector workers, but to box them into a corner, using anti-worker legislation.

And, again, I get back to the kitchen table, because that's – seems to be the phrase –there's a number of catchphrases that this government uses: money on your kitchen table. But, again, pennies on your kitchen table. Who sits there and puts thousands of dollars on your kitchen table? Nobody does. You sit there and you put your loose change on your kitchen table. And how exactly can you go with that loose change and provide for your family? That's exactly what that is, nothing but crumbs and peanuts. So, we sit here and we wonder, okay, I'm going to take my paycheque. What's my paycheque going to be?

Can I leave my paycheque on my kitchen table? Probably could, because it amounts to nothing less than loose change at the end of the day. And that's exactly what Bill 9 is encompassed to do. It is going to do that. There's no financial crisis. Millions of dollars have been stowed away in the Province's rainy day

December 3, 2019 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 355 fund. The Premier took a 20 per cent raise for himself, locked it in and then called it a wage freeze. Again, dictatorship. How can the Premier look a hard- working Manitoban in the eye and cut and freeze their wages while he continually fills his own pockets, at their expense, of the hard-working Manitobans? For lack of a better term, he might as well be there scooping up all that loose change off the kitchen table, because that's exactly what's happening. These are not the actions of a government dealing with a financial crisis.

You cut sales taxes, spend $173,000 in marketing campaigns to promote the cuts and now the government is pledging to eliminate the PST on expensive haircuts. Most people wishes they can afford to get a haircut. They're going to sit there and cut their own hair –[interjection]–for a simple matter of the fact that–[interjection]–for the simple matter of the fact that the –those apply, again, to certain Manitobans, high-level Manitobans. [interjection] Should I wait to be called order? I don't know.

Seems to be we're getting a little bit out of hand already. [interjection] But I love that, I love the fact that we're hitting home, we're making a difference, we're impacting. The Acting Speaker (Greg Nesbitt): Order. Mr. Bushie: It's good to know the other side of the House is actually listening. The Acting Speaker (Greg Nesbitt): Order. Just ask for a little respect for the speaker, please. Thank you. Mr. Bushie: The Finance Minister and the Premier (Mr. Pallister) have refused to rule out the possibility of wage rollbacks, unpaid days off, changes to pensions.

Workers and their families deserve to know what the Premier's plan really is. Not all of a sudden, another bait and switch from I'm going to cut, cut, cut– oh, by the way, I have a grand announcement to make. The grand announcement, in reality, is, this is where I've been hiding all your money I'm going to give you back. The Premier's required by law to app oint an arbitration board when no agreement has been reached, so long as one parties makes this request.

Clause 49(2) of The Civil Service Act clearly says, that when the minister has been requested to appoint an arbitration board by one of the parties, he shall establish one. We know this didn't happen. MGEU made this request back in July. By law, the minister should have established an arbitration panel within seven days. We know that the government ignored that request. The government ignored the law and defied the act. The government was unhappy with the responsibilities under the law, and so now they go ahead and change it. Again, dictatorship.

Last month, Manitoba unions representing tens of thousands of public sector workers took the Province to court over their unconstitutional wage freeze bill. Dozens of witnesses have been called to testify that the government is not respecting workers' rights. Unions will be in court until Thursday, December 5th, and they get–then again in February. This government has chosen to spend their money fighting workers in court, as opposed to staying down with them and showing respect for the collective bargaining process and, in fact, respect for Manitobans.

This government to the –this speaks to the government's pat tern of not thinking through the consequences of their penny-pinching and, again, on backs of hard-working Manitobans. Instead, choosing to move full speed ahead with their plans to save money by any means necessary and leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces, to pick up the crumbs, to pick up the loose change to put on my kitchen table, so I can, in fact, go to the store and buy myself something to eat. This speaks to the government's pattern, again, of not thinking through the process. And again, dictatorship, not consulting.

In the fall, the Pallister government attempted to start–to

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-2-10b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 2nd hansardpdf 10b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	98c7b29cd048787bf5e4b1ff336abb6ef6352036

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