Manitoba Hansard — 26 November 1979 (Sitting 3, 31st Legislature, 4th Session)

31-4-3

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Time: 2:30 p.m. LEGIS LA TIVE ASSEMB LY OF MANI TO BA Monday, 25 February 1980 OP ENING PRAY ER by Mr. Speaker. MR . SPE AKER, Hon. Harry E. Graham (Birtl e-Russell): Presenting Petitions . PRESENTING PETITIO NS MR : SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Brandon East. MR . LEON AR D S. EV AN S (B randon F.ast): I beg to present the petition of John Edward Harrison and others praying for the passing of

an Act to Incorporate Brandon General Hospital Foundation. MR . SPEAKER: Reading and Receiving Petitions. PRESENTING REPO RTS BY STAND ING AND SP ECIAL CO MMI TTEES MR . SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Member for Crescentwood. MR. WA RRE N STEEN (C rescentwood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the first report of the Standing Committee on Statutory Regulations and Orders. MR . CLERK: Your committee met for re-organization on Monday, November 26, 1979. The resignations of Donald W. Orchard and Wilson Pa rasiuk were accepted and Messrs. W. Steen and D. J. Walding were appointed to the committee in their stead. Mr.

Steen was elected as Chairman. Your committee agreed that the Law Officer initially prepare reports on the Regulations which were enacted since October 24, 1977, which are still in effect and which, in his opinion, do not meet the guidelines set out in Rule 71 of the Rules of the House. All of which is respectfully submitted . MR . SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Member for Crescentwood. MR . STEEN: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Emerson that the report of the committee be received. MOTI O N presented and carried. MR .

SPEAKER: Ministerial Stat ements and Tabling of Reports ••• Notices of Motion. INT RO DUC TIO N OF BILL S MR . SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Transcona. MR . WILS ON PARA SIUK (Tr anscona) introduced Bill No. 10, The Freedom of Information Act. ORAL QUESTIO NS MR . SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Inkster. MR. SID NEY GREEN, Q. C.: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Honourable Att orney-General.

Can the Attorney-General ad vise the House and the people of Manitoba as to the present status of the mother of four children, 32 year old mother of four children, who was sentenced to nine months in prison because she wrongfully used welfare money for the purpose of recreational facilities in her community? - 37 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 HO N. GERAL D W. J. MER CIER, Q. C. (Osbor ne): Mr. Speaker, I believe that in that case counsel for the accused came to the viewpoint that there was no justification for an appeal. 1, I MR. GR EEN: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Honourabl e Attor ney-General can tell us whether that woman is now in prison, rather than being with her four children? MR. MER CIER: No, I ca nnot, Mr. Speaker. That would be a question more appropriately to be considered by the Minister of Community Services. MR .

GREEN: To the Honourabl e Minister of Community Ser vices: Can the Minister adv ise whether appropriate steps can be taken to see to it that - if they have not already been taken - to see to it that that woman, who is the mother of four children, and I repeat this and underline it, is better off in prison or with the care of her chilaren? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Mi nister of Corrections. HO N. GEOR GE MIN AKER (St. James): Mr. Speaker, to the Honourable Member for Inkster, I will take his question under consideration. INTRO DU CTIO N OF GUESTS MR . SPEAKER: Order please.

If I may ask the indulgence of the House, I neglected to introduce to the Chamber 48 students of Grade V stand ing from Marion School, under the dire ction of Mrs. Boitras. This school is in the constituency of the Honourabl e Member for St . Boniface. On behalf of all the honourable members we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIO NS (cont'

d) MR . SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Rouge. MR S. JU NE WESTBURY: Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Honourabl e Minister of Community Services with reference to the moaifications in the Child Day Care Program announced on Friday. Does the eight percent increase in income levels, which det ermine the level of subsidy, reflect the inc rease in maxi mum income levels permissible within the Canada Assistance Plan, and how does the Mininister reconcile the 25 percent inc rease in user fees with this ei ght percent inc rease? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourabl e Minister of Community Services. MR .

MINAKE R: Mr. Speaker, to the Honourable Member for Fort Rouge, the eight percent increase does apply to the Canadian Assi stance Plan guidelines, and I can give the honourable member the exact figures of the different variables that are consid erea, whether it is a single parent or a two parent, whether there is one or two children involved, afterwards, if she so desires.

With regards to the 25 percent incre ase, the day care centres had requested addi tional revenue and the proposal that we have put forward allows them to deciae whether in fact they want to go to the additional 25 percent, and it it our belief, and the reports that we have had back, that not all aay care cent res will in fact raise their fees to the maximum. In some cases, I believe there is still one day care centre in operation that is still below the minimum fee that was allowed at $6.80. MR S.

WESTBURY: Would the Minister inform the Legislature of the number of day care spaces now appro ved in Manitoba which are covered by his announcement , and what percentage of those spaces are occupied by children covered under the government subsidy at present? MR. MIN AKER: Mr. Speaker, to the Honourabl e Member from Fort Rouge. At the present time there are approximately 5,200 licensed spaces, of which 3,300 are classified as full time spaces. And of those particular spaces now, there's approximately 50 percent of the spaces that are subsid ized to some degree. - 38 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 MR S. WESTBURY: Mr. Speaker, will the Day Care Centres be expected to bear the full cost of incorporati on, and would the Minister appro ve these costs if submitted in the operating budgets, or would a separate grant such as the audit grant be approved? MR . MIN AK ER: Mr.

Speaker, I'm not to clear on the exact question that the Honourable Member for Fort Rouge is raising, but if she is referring to the new proposed spaces, the 10 percent increase, if the present day care f acilities do not absorb all those 10 percent spaces and a new facility is considered, then they would have the one time start up-grant provided for them that would cover the incorporation. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Before I proceed, may I again ask the indulgence of the House. I have been inf ormed that we have students of Grade V standing in the Gallery from Riverv iew School.

This school is in the constituency of the Honourable Atto rney-General. We welcome you here this aftern oon as well. The Honourable Minister of Labour. ORAL QUESTION S (cont'

d) HO N. KEN Mc MA STER (Thompson): Mr. Speaker, on Friday the Member from Brandon East asked a questio n as to the condition of the hostel in Brandon. I have some more information in relationship to that . He directed the question to the Minister of Health, but I thought that he had an interest in it. In 1979, an electronic alarm system and heat detector system was installed in the Bulloch Hostel. All residents are am bulatory. There is a supervisor on 24 hours a day with a matron living in. Two exits are in place on all three floors, and are in very good condition. Full exit lights are in place.

Emergency lighting is in place. The hostel itself has complied with everything it's been asked by the Brandon Fire Department. There was a recent fire alarm situation in that particular building. Everybody was quite quickly and adequately evacuated. Further information: The boiler system itself was inspected last year and found to be in very good shape, and just recently it was inspected approximately a month ago and it's in good shape. MR . SP EAKER: The Honourable Member for Inkster. MR . GREEN: Mr. Speaker, Pd like to direct a question to the First Minister.

In view of the reports today that the CPR does not have safety box controllers, such as could have prevented the Mississauga accident or at least could have given warning of it, and have indicated that they have no intention of putting such contro ls in closer than Brandon, and even don't have them at that point, but have them some 400 miles from Winnipeg, would the First Minister see whether there are special reasons as to why these safety devices, which apparently have been installed by the public railway east of Winnipeg are not available to protect the cit izens of Winnipeg? MR .

SPE AKER: The Honourabl e First Minister. HO N. STERLING R. LYON (C harleswood): Mr. Speaker, in response to my honourable friend, I would be quite happy to have the appropriate department or departments make that inquiry, it being a topic of course, under federal jurisdicti on. But I'm sure all of us would share with him the concern that the national railway companies, CPR and CN R take every step that they can, certainly within the boundS of this province and I dare say all other provinces to ensure that up-to-date safety warning devices are used while the trains are trave rsing this province. MR .

SPE AKER: The Honourabl e Leader of the Opposition. THRONE SP EECH DEBATE MR . HOW AR D PAW LEY (Se lkirk): Mr. Speaker, first I would like to take this opportunity to express appreciation and to congratu late the mover and seconder upon their fine addresses this past Friday morning. In addition, Mr. Speaker, of cour se, we do have in the Chamber, three new members - 39 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 of the Legislature, the Member for River Heights, the Member for Fort Rouge, and the Member for Rossmere. We know, Mr. Speaker, that the three members will add greatly to the improvement of the provincial community and that they will ado considerabl y to the debate within this Chamber, and I believe, on behalf of all members, we welcome three new members to the Chamber. Mr.

Speaker, in addition, I would like to again extend best wishes to you as the chief mediator in this Chamber, as one that is central to the effect ive functioning of this Chamber, and we wish to extend to you our co�peration during the proceeedings that lie ahead during this session. Ana to the new members of the Cabinet, to the Minister of Transportat ion, to the Minister of Community Ser vices, and to the Minister of Municipal Affairs , we extend to all three our wishes for success in their portfolios in serving the people of Manit oba.

I must say that we are somewhat surprised at some of the changes that took place with respect to Cabinet since our last session of the Legislat ure. We were somewhat surprised, for example, that the former Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Cultural Affairs is now only responsible for Cultural Affairs. We had thought that the Minister of Tourism, Recreation and Cultural Affa irs had, in fact, been doing a most satisfactory job, and Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that part of her responsibility has been transferred to the Minister of Economic Deve lopment, we find that, indeed, a backward step, because Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of Economic Development has not imp ressed this side of the House, nor has he imp ressed Manitobans with his effect iveness as a Minister of Economic Development, or as a Minister responsible for Housing in the Pr ovince of Manitoba. As well, Mr. Speaker, we were somewhat surprised at the demotion suffered by the former Minister of Highways and Pu blic Works. I recall, Mr. Speaker, the Minister indicating within this Chamber that the time that he spent on Pu blic Works during the course of the week was two, three hours a week. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, I understand less time than it required him to travel back and forth from Woodlands, Manitoba. He indicated, Mr. Speaker, that his first love indeed was transportation and highways. So it was with some surprise, some slight amusement I must say, Mr. Speaker, when the Minister of Transporation and Pu blic Works was stripped of his responsibility for transportation and ended up with Pu blic Works as his sole responsibility. Another rather peculiar change was the Attor ney-General.

The Attorn ey-General - and I do not want to be unfair with the Atto rney-General, but he has never made a secret of his dislike for the routine and the rules and the procedures within this Chamber. I recall him in various incidents making no clear secret of his concern in that regard. So it was with some astonishment when we read in the media that the First Minister had indeed changed House Leaders and provided to the Att orney-General the responsibility for House leadership in this Chamber. Mr.

Speaker, I want to speak this aft ernoon in respect to the Federal Election Campaign, and I know that honourable members who were only laughing a few moments ago are not so keen to laugh about the matte rs perta ining to Monday, February 18th. Mr. Speaker, when the Minister of Finance introduced his Budget into the House of Commons this past December, our Firs t Minister had no criticism for that Budget except to suggest it was too soft and could have been toughened up.

Then the First Minister said that the Federal Election Campaign indeed was crucial to all Canadians and he called Trudeau Liberals and New Democrats as poor Canadians. Then he announced so that all Manitobans could hea r, and indeed all Canadians , that he would be campaigning th rough the length and breadth of this land in order to ensure that the Socialist hordes would be kept away from the gates.

It was somewhat curious to us that during the crucial nature of this campaign that the First Minister did find two weeks, two weeks to spend in sunny Florida under the Florida sun and bathing in the sands during the heart of this crucial campaign inviting tho se poor Canadians, Trudeau Liberals and Socia lists marching on the gates of Ottawa two full weeks, and upon his return, Mr. Speaker, he participated but very very little in the federal campaign. I understa nd that the First Minister went to Lynn Lake in the constituency of Churchill and visted Dau phin during the campaign.

Oh, only if he had visited Brandon or Lisgar or Provencher, only if he had! In fact I would urge the First Minister come the next federal election to make sure that he visits each and every one of the fourteen constitue ncies in this province. We hear, Mr. Speaker, that the former Pr ime Minister did indeed provide some small contri bution to ensure that the First Minister was able to find the means to purchase a fare - 40-

Monday, 2 5 February 1980 for Florida, and that there were indeed some messages from the First Minister of Canada, that the First Minister in Manitoba could play it low key during this recent federal campaign. We understand that it's based upon the fact that this past May 22, 1979, it was the First Minister and his government's policies that caused the Conservative Pa rty of Canada to fail in its bid in order to obtain majority government in Canada and as a result because of the First Minister and his policies, Clark is sitting now as Opposi tion Leader in Ottawa, and not as Prime Minister. Mr.

Speaker, the First Minister's efforts, during the few months of Tory government in Canada, was as meek as a pussycat before the lion Crosbie. Just as Crosbie had predicted back in March of 1979, and that long since famous statement that he was out to make Ster ling Lyon, "a pussycat.11 Besides the reaction to the provincial debacle, we've had inept and partisan leaders hip in Manitoba in both provincial and federal matters. Mr. Speaker, we have had an approach which is based more upon Tory ideology than an approach that is interested in serving the interests and the benefit of all Manitobans.

Federally we had a budget in December which would have resulted in an increase in taxes and prices which would have extracted $250 million from the Manitoba economy; a budget which would have increased prices of gasoline in Winnipeg from $1 .05 to $1.40 per gallon in 1980, and which would have increased, according to the Tory budget, the price of gasoline per gallon to $2.00 by 1983; a budget which would have increased - and where is the Minister of Agriculture, we didn't hear the Minister of Agriculture speak out in fact during the campaign - but a budget which would have inc reased farm costs of product ion and would have forced many farmers off their land; a policy which would have increased and which was increasing interest rates, damaging small business, home owners, farmers; a policy which was geared towards increasing the price of oil to meet levels near the world price despite the fact that the price would have extracted millions of dollars from the consumers of the Province of Manitoba in an arrangement which had no relationship to costs of production, to competition, arrangement in fact which was quasi -crim inal in nat ure if judged by other standards that are commonly known in respect to combines and cartels.

And yet there was no spokesman for Manitoba, as meek, as meek as a pussycat , and a budget which would have resulted in addit ional unemployment in Manitoba. Through all this, the First Minister acted, not as Manitoba's spokesper son, not as a protector of the interests of Manitobans - and for this, Mr. Speaker, I believe he will be long remembered and recalled by the people of the Province of Manitoba for his ineptness in leadership during that eight, nine months of Tory government in Ottawa.

Nowhere has the Throne Speech been a more incompetent document of intention, and one which has been such a mix of confusion and contradicti on, as we witness in respect to its approach to the economic aff airs of the Province of Manitoba. In the past 27 months of Tory management, it states that important steps have been taken toward an overall economic recovery. But only a few paragraphs prior to that statement within the Throne Speech, we are told in an unequivocal manner, and I quote, "Economic growth and job creation were lagging behind the rates achieved in other parts of Canada." Mr.

Speaker, this blatent admis sion of the sluggish performance of the economy over the past two years is the only honest economic statement contained within this Throne Speech. The rest, Mr. Speaker, it's rare, it's rare indeed that you find someone that is able to strut from sitting down. The rest, Mr. Speaker, are but futile statements and assertions of Lyonomics. That's a new coined phrase, "L yonomics", a term which means to mislead and to con fuse.

The statement in the Throne Speech informing, proudly, Manitobans, that their economy had reached, for the first time, the milestone level of $1 0 billion in 1979, is preci sely one of these misleading statements which prudent judgment, if not common decency, ought to have precluded from its use within that Throne Speech.

Nowhere is it mentioned that the government's own estimate of $10 billion as value of goods and services produced in 1979, is an estimate in te rms of market prices and inflation dollars, and ought not to be confused as reflecting the sum total of quantities of goods and services produced by Manitobans. Indeed, only a few weeks back, the Conference Board in Canada estimated the production of gross domestic goods in Manitoba to be $4.5 billion. The difference between the government's own assertion in the Throne Speech and the Conference Board figure is a hefty $5.5 billion. Mr.

Speaker, this is but another mischievous use in Lyo nomics. Mr. Speaker, if increase in inflation -based figures were a valid measurement on economic performance, then indeed the military dictators of the inflation- ridden countries to the south of us, which have loved the - 41 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 right of claiming the status of later day economic healers, would indeed have much to shout and rave about. If this was so - and evidently it isn't - I'm persuaded that the leader of this government should not deserve such an illegitimate claim. To add insult to injury, government members find satisfaction in the claim that the real growth rate in 1980 will exceed the Canadian growth rate. Mr. Speaker, we hea r the hollow self-congrat ulations; we see the breast -beating. For the record, Mr.

Speaker, the Conference Board predicts in their latest forecast that the volume of gross provincial product in Canada in 1980 will grow by only 1.1 percent. 1980 for Manitoba, an increase of 1.3 percent, up from a real growth rate increase from 0.8 percent in 1979, up from 2.4 percent real growth rate 1978, 2.3 percent in 1977. Mr. Speaker, I find it difficult to comprehend how honourable members across the way can hail a growth rate of 1.3 percent , 1980, Province of Manitoba, as an opportu nity for joy in Manitoba. I fail to comprehend. At least we ought to be reaching towards a growth rate of 3 percent .

And to be realistic , if we are to undo the damage that the government of today has done to the economy of this province, we require a growth rate of 5 percent, 1980 and 1981. 1.3 percent growth rate this year is but a corroboration of the tragic evidence obvious to most Manitobans that the economic recessio n which did grip Manitoba during the latter part of 1977 is still lingering, despite the doctrines of Lyonomics and the promises of this government. The government has failed to restore the economy of Manitoba to its traditional role.

The Throne Speech is full of bureaucratic housekeeping measures which promise only changes in the distant future, and not in the immediate future, and is tantamount to indifference and to gross negligence. Mr. Speaker, we recall so well the campaign literature in 1977, campaign literature of the Conservative Party in which they promised to Manitobans that they would lead Manitoba out of economic wilderness, and into the new land where there would be job security and opport unity for all. We recall so well being bombarded repeatedly by the efforts on the part of honourable members across the way in that respect.

Now 27 months since October 27th, that Tory promise is more and mo re like the legendary pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Mr. Speaker, the private sector is composed of all Manitobans; not just the elite few as the Honourable First Minister would have us believe, the blue chip group of the Carlton Club and the Manitoba Club, but all Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker, the truth is that the private sector has responded and is reJ>ponding half-hearte dly because there is no atmosphere of confidence with the government across the way, confidence in business and completing tra nsactio ns is lacking within the Pr ovince of Manitoba with that government across the way. Unwar ranted government restraints have led Manitoba to sluggish growth, more unemployment, greater outmigration, slower growth in income, and an app rehension on the part of the consumer and the investor alike.

The failure on the part of this government to utilize the traditional function of the public sector of the econom y in the impr ovement that the economic well-being of all Manitobans is what is ailing our econom y and has been ailing our econom y since 1977. Mr.

Speaker, to 1977 --(Inte rjection)- I wouldn't mind nationalizing the Premier of this province. 1970 to 1977, private sector spending increased in Manitoba by 5. 4 percent; provincial government expenditures from 1970 to 1977 inc reased by 4.6 perce nt ; the volume of goods and services produced in Manitoba grew by an annual rate of 4.4 percent - 1970 to 1977. All these figures are taken from Statist ics Canada, are not pulled out of the magic hat that practitioners of economic theories across the way are bound to do. Our only conclusion, Mr.

Speaker, is that private sector responded and responded well to the policies of prudent mana gement during the years 1970 to 1977, and to say other wise, Mr. Speaker, is but simply Tory dogma, and in fact is harmful quackery of the worst type. In contrast to the 4.4 percent in 1970 to 1977, the Conference Board in Canada info rms us that the volume of gross provincial product grew in Manitoba by 2.4 percent in 1978; 0.8 percent in 1979; 1.3 percent forecast for 1980.

Thus between the end of 1977 and 1980 the Conference Board tells us that the Manitoba economy is expected to grow by only an additional annual rate of 1.4 percent, less than one-third of the growth experienced during 1970 to 1977, less than one-third, Mr. Speaker, of the rate 1970 to 1977. Only recently the Federal Department of Industry, Trade and Commerce warned us that the business investment in Manitoba in 1980 is likely to decline by seven percent, seven percent decline in terms of mar ket values.

At the same time Federal Agency expects business investment to grow - in British Columbia by 33 percent; and in Socialist Saskatchewan, tha t honourabl e members pretend to dislike and would prefer at times to ignore, by 24 percent compared to minus seven percent in Manitoba; 27 percent in Ontario; and an average of 19.5 percent for Canada as a whole. - 42 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 Wors t of all, more Manitobans left this province during the years 1977 to 1979 to the greener pastures of Ontario, Saskat chewan and Alberta than ever before - a loss of 21 ,250 people in only 24 months , a staggering loss despite the nonchalant attitude of the First Minister of this province. We have warnea him in the past , we warn him toaay , that this is a matter that is worth his losing his sleep over.

If he has any doubt then I suggest to him that the message from the two previous feaeral elections of last May ana last February 18th is clear, is precise and is ponderous, and tells him something. Even the job creation figures that have been trumpeted around by the government have much to be desired. Under the surface they reveal trenas harmful to job security and oraerly growth in Manitoba. In 1975 part-time employment represented just under 13 percent of the total employment force in Manitoba.

In 1979 this increasea to 14.3 percent, harmful because only one-third of those that are part-time em ployees prefer to remain as part-time employees. It only indicates that the increased numbers are expected to accept part-time employment when they prefer full-time employment in Manitoba. Thus official unemployment rates vary very much under the rate of the actual unemployment rate in Manitoba. Lyono mics, Mr. Speaker, has resultea in the lowest rate of economic growth of any province in Canada; has resulted in record-setting out-migration in both 1978 ana 1979.

It brought about the first depopulation in Manitoba since 1966 and in fact, Mr. Speaker, we are the only province in the whole of Canada to witness a decline in 19 79, the only province in the entire country. Retail sales - the lowest percentage increase of any province in Canada. Housing starts declined by 42.2 percent in 1979, the sharpest decline of any province in Canada. -{Interjection)- And if you don't accept statistics I say to the Minister of Economic Development, visit the people in the homes of this province, speak to the people on the streets and at their places of work.

They will tell you, they will tell you what is happening to this provinc e, because you haven't realizea, you haven't woken up to that fact yet. British Columbia exports timber; Alberta exports oil; Sas katchen, potash; Ontari o is manufact ured goods. Unfortunately under Lyonomi cs Manitoba ex ports young Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, we are bound to ensure that this does not continue after the next election in Manitoba. We are bound to ensure that this never again occurs in Manitoba.

In their Throne Speech the Tories attempted to conceal their economic failure by dressing up the Throne Speech with cosmetic surgery, an attempt to cover up the fact that they had been dismal failures by way of bringing about economic recovery during the past two years. So they placed within the Throne Speech many press announcements that have been maae by various government ministe rs over the past year, a repetition again ana again.

I believe some of the announcements we have seen at least three or four times, seven times - Seven Oaks Hospital; some of the other items over and over and over again - to do that cosmetic surgery job, to make the document appear to be progressive so that Manitobans woula forget the dismal performance on their part of the past two years in bringing about economic recovery in Manitoba. --(Interjec tion)- A PR snow job, that is what the Minister of Health and Social Ser vices was interested in instituting into this Throne Speech. Mr.

Speaker, a government which no longer has the competen ce to provide direc tion and has lost credibility in Manitoba to most Manitobans; a government of many many contradictions; a government that has lost feeling for people; a government which no longer is able to base itself upon clear, consistent, philosophic approaches; a government which has lost the ability to ensure that there is a consistent direc tion to its policies; a government which has become fat and arrogant in its approach, con fusion, bewilderment, lack of confidence. And, Mr.

Speaker, no other instance is more clear than the confusion on the part of the government in respect to the entire issue of Autopac. Here we have a report of Ministerial Insurance Review Committee, $300,000 worth, an independent enquiry headed by one Mr. Burns of British Columbia. Wh at's that I heard about during the federal campaign? Some of the news media were trying to reach him and where did they find him? In the British Columbia Progressive Conservative headqu arters - independent enquiry.

But when the inquiry was establis hed, the First Minister said Autopac is here to stay, but then he did express some excitement over that Qu ebec plan which turned two-thirds of the premium dollar over to the private interests. Ana then we have, of course, the statement by Mr. Burns that Autopac was here to remain, right in the report, but as a private mutual insurance company. All along, people had been hoodwin ked into thinking that the words "Autopac was here to stay", meant something - not quackery, not misrepre sentation. - 43 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 And then we had the Minister of Finance, and the Minister of Finance announced to a conc erned public, in the absence of the First Minister that was in New Zealand at the time, Autopac is here to remain. Autopac is here to remain. The First Minister returned, Mr. Speaker, a couple of days later and the Minister of Finance issue d a correcting statement to clarify the report in the news media, which read, "I didn 't necessarily mean that Autopac would remain as a public corporation; it could very well continue as a private corporation", in clarification to the news media.

Then the First Minister called a press conference; and the First Minister two-stepped, according to reliable reports, the question of whether or not Autopac would remain as is. Then finally the Minister of Pub lic Wor ks, during the federal campaign, announces to all and sundry, Autopac is indeed to remain as is. And then we read the Insurance Bureau of Canada. The Insurance Bureau of Canada indicate - and I think with just reason, very just reason - that they haven't lost hope, that the Minister left the door open for them sometime in the future, the not too distant future. Mr.

Speaker, let us be clear that Manitobans will not permit, the opposition will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the people of this province to ensure that Autopac is not junked partly or wholly by this government . Then we have the interesting situation of the McKenzi e Seed operation, and further bewilderment and confusion. On October ••. I think the Minister responsible for McKenzie Seed swiped something from me here. Well, Mr.

Speaker, I can't find the article, but in the Brandon Sun, October ll, 1977, the First Minister, then Opposition Leader, assures Brandon voter s that the election of a conser vative governmen t in Brandon does not mean the dismantling of McKe nzie Seed, and goes out of his way to ensure to the people of Brandon that McKenzie Seed will continue as an operation, as it always has been in the City of Brandon. And now we had the announcement last spring that the Minister responsible is indeed trying to sell McKe nzie Seeds.

A committee is formed to save McKe nzie Seeds; demonstrations take place on the Legisl ative steps; petitions are brought forward. Oh, here we are - Tories wind up campaign with flags, election songs, and a statement, the New Democrats had told McKenzie Seed employees in Manitoba that a PC administr ation would sell McKenzie Seeds and that under the PC , senior citizens would be kicked out of their accommodation. He repeated his promise not to sell McKen zie Seeds. Mr. Speaker, there was the pressure that was mounted from Brandon. There were the petitions .

There was a demonstration on the steps of this Legisl ature. There was the appearance by the Minister responsible, and then we witnessed the backtracki ng annou ncement that McKenzie Seeds will not be sold. And then only the other day, we again are informed that arrangements are being attem pted to still dispose of McKe nzie Seeds. The people of Brandon are bewildered and disappointea. And rm surprised that the Minister without Portf olio, the Member for Brandon West, hasn't spoken out on behalf of the City of Brandon in this respect.

And the people in Brandon are concerned, I say to the Member for Brandon West; they're uneasy . There is no di rection, there is no leadership from this government, and there is a retraction of that commitment that was made by the First Minister of this province October 10, 1977. Then we have the fishing license policy, and the Minister is not present. But there is the announcement of a policy change, implementation, a freeze. And then there was a commitment that was made to the Northern Association of Community Councils that there would be consultation.

Then on January 17, 1980 there is a statement on CBC raaio by the Minister indicating that the proposed regulations would be imposed regardless, and that they would be ready; and in fact, Mr. Speaker, what the Minister was prepared to do was to turn the lakes and the fisherie s of this province over to the large fishermen and to the large companies. That's what the Minister was attempting to do. And, Mr. Speaker, again because of the resistance and the opposition, and because of the meetings in which members of his department were called upon to attend, the Minister wasn't there; the Mini ster wasn't out front.

I don't believe the Minister can advise us of his attending one meeting. His senior department people were there, trying to ex plain his policies to the fishermen. And I agree with the Minister, he must determine the policies within his department. But if he is going to determine the policies within his department, let him proceed out to sell those policies to the fishermen of this province, not hide behind officials in his department in utter and total disgrace. And yet, Mr.

Speaker, when feedback began to develop from party organizer s in Churchill and Dauphin and Selkir k Inter lake, it wasn't too long before the Minister announced that he - 44-

Monday, 25 Fe bruary 1980 was suspending the policy, suspending the policy for now. We await with suspense, while again the fishermen of this province await with uncertainty as to their fut ures, while the Minister plays with the fishermen of this province as though they were toys. Then, Mr. Speaker, on health care. We witnessed the continued decline in health care in Manitoba. You know, it's interesting - the Minister of Health and Social Ser vices smiles and laughs - we know the First Minister has indicated that he sleep; well about the economic affairs of this province.

It's apparent that the Minister of Health and Social Services sleep; well too. He sits in his chair, he smiles, he smiles as moneys that were intended to be matched in Manitoba, dollar for dollar, federal money, dollar for dollar to be matched in Manitoba has been diverted to other uses. He smiles while he has been second-fiddle among his Cabinet colleagues in ensuring that that money is protected for health care in Manitoba, yet the Minister continues to smile. The provincial share of the cost of health care in this province has dipped from 57 down to 51 percent since 1977 under his leadership, Mr. Speaker.

And at the same time, this Minister has been responsible of an increase in the deductible pertaining to Pharmacare by 50 percent; he has been responsible to hefty increases on the aged and the ill in our personal care homes and the privatization of medicine; the refusal of approval to various non-p rofit and charitable group; that wish to build nursing homes in this province at the same time as he promises to those that are involved in personal care homes for profit that they will be sub sidized from the coffers of this province. Mr.

Speaker, we feel that there is no place for profit in Medicare, in our hospitals, or in our personal care homes. We have seen this Minister, over the period of his responsibility, injure Denticare in Manitoba, and has in fact, I think, left behind a legacy for all Manitobans of a Minister that has not ser ved Health and Social Ser vices but has caused irreparable harm to those services in Manitoba.

Only this past Friday we read of a statement by the President of the Victoria Hospital Board who pointed out that the services in that hospital were most inadequate; the hospital had been forced to handle twice the load that it was designed for; and mentioned that since 1977 life-threatening and urgent cases have doubled and the result is increasingly long hours of wait for treatment; and the President indicated that the answers from this government were inadequate and unsatisfactory. Local taxpayer. Reference is made in the Throne Speech to substantial increases. We find that somewhat curious.

All the announcements that have been made by the Minister of Municipal Affairs, the Minister of Urban Affairs, the Minister of Education this past two, three weeks, have been responded to unanimously by those at the local level, whether it be from the universities, whether it be from the city of Winnipeg, whether it be from the municipalities throughout the province, or whether it be from the school divisions in Manitoba, you are not playing fair with the local taxpayer - you are not playing fair. Mr. Speaker, they are trying to look good as a government at the expense of local government in Manitoba.

But it's not going to wash. The problem is that the increases which were announced that are referred to as substanti al within the Throne Speech have not even matched inflation. And they start from such a low base, a base which has been thrust upon local government and our universities by that government. The result, Mr. Speaker, is that we find a continued burden of taxation being shuffled upon the backs of the school and municipal taxpayers in Manitoba and onto the students in this province, both at the post-secondary level and in the universities. And then we find Hydro. I would like to discuss Hydro.

We have this here $1.3 million. And more. I understand that Manitoba Hydro spent another million and a half. I think the total is about $3 million in cost. --(I nterjection)-- Well, the Minister of Finance had estimated the cost of this document would be $250,000.00. The $250,000 grew to a hefty $1.3 million. What did we get? We received a highly political document.

We received a document which is attempting to justify a position that has been taken by the Conservatives outside this Legislature during the past eight years, and a report which states that costs were underestimated by Hydro - and it has the nerve to say this, with a carelessness ranging from recklessness to irresponsibility. And yet, Mr. Speaker, it is that Minister of Finance who underestimated the cost of this report with a carelessness ranging from recklessness to irresponsibility. Mr.

Speaker, we'll be attempting to find out how those well-priced Conser vative lawyers, how much they received, in the work which they did in respect to the preparation of this Commission report. We'll be interested to find out how many thousands of dollars were poured into their coffers during the preparation of this commission report. - 45-

Monday, 25 February 1980 Mr. Speaker, the Tory high-level diver sion was recognized as impractical. The only course to pursue was to increase the flow upon the Nelson by 50,000 cubic feet per second, in order to fully utilize the capacity of the Nelson Ge nerating Stations , and the only way to do that was to regulate Lake Winnipeg as a storage reservoir.

But the most disturbing aspect of all this is that Tritschler, in spending $1.3 billion - million, and Hydro spending -{Interjection) looking ac ross the way, I can't help but think of the recklessness that ex ists across the way to the extent that you would have spent $1.3 billion dollars, if you could have, in preparing a political document. $1.3 million dollars.

The former Chief Justice indicates that he is unable to attach any price tag - or whether there's any additi onal cost - and yet the Minister of Finance, within moments of receiving this document announces the calling of a press con ference and then has the nerve to advise Manitobans that there has been a $500 million to an $800 million waste. And he estimated 20 percent extra costs in Hydro rates as a result of his glimpse within moments of receiving this report. Mr.

Speaker, have we ever witnessed such a reckless fabrication by a minister who claims to be responsible for the finances of the Province of Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, what disturb ed me, I believe, even more than any - because I believe the Member for Inkster and the former First Minister of this province handled themselves very well in making their presentation to the Tritschler Commission - and I must express disappointment that the clear presenta tions that were made by those two gentlemen are not reflected in this report.

But we find the Minister of Finance, in what I believe to be near-libelous statements, taking cheap shots at the former Premier of this province. And that evening, the evening after the release of this report. I found that effort on his part to release those cheap shots as being utterly repulsive because the Gover nor-General of this country is in no position to defend himself from those sort of short, cheap, political shots. Mr.

Speaker, I want to place clearly on the record that we are proud and we admire the effor t and the imagi nation and the work that was done by the former Premier of this province, the present Gover nor-General of Canada, in order to ensure that Manitobans would cont inue to receive low hydro rates in Manitoba. No kind of misrep resentation by the Minister of Finance or the First Minister is going to succeed in discrediting that fact and history will record it well in the annals of the province. Mr.

Speaker, in conclusion I must emphasize how elated and optimistic we are at the level of the New Democrat Pa rty in Manitoba. The present government of Manitoba has made Manitobans acutely aware of the word "Conser vative" and what the word "Conservative" means to them.

It means an inhuman, an arrogant app roach; ind ividuals that are concerned only dealing with population with people on paper; a group which is becoming more and more tired of being studied by commissions and study groups and task forces; a group which has been juggled and chopped; a deficit supposedly reduced, but that burden of taxation is simply being shifted onto other levels of government. I say, Mr. Speaker, that is not the way to treat fellow Manitobans . It is individuals who make up society, and when the individual standard of living is reduced, then the whole fabric of society is torn.

We are concer ned with individuals and groups, and we in this session of the Legislature shall fight to protect , to enhance and to imp rove the quality of life. We shall concentr ate on short-term, long-term planning to generate employment and to cease outmigration and depop ulation. We shall revitali ze the urban core of Winnipeg ; people are above buildings and assessments for the benefit of honourable members across the way. The decay of the urban core in the City of Winnipeg must be stopped. We shall work towards programs to ensure the easing of the burden of taxation from municipal and school ratepayers .

We shall work towards the aiding and the encouragement of the small business community in Manitoba, so that they may flourish and imp rove, so that they can take their rightful economic position in Manitoba, one which has been denied by members across the way during the past two years. Mr. Speaker, the women of this province require more than the token recognition which has been dished out to them within this Throne Speech; the funding for an Advisory Council on the Status of Women - funding for an Advisory Council on the Status of Women. Mr.

Speaker, we say to the First Minister, and to the Minister of Community Services, and to the Minister of Health, that the women of this province would be more pleased today if there had been clear steps made and announce d within this Throne Speech to do something in order to assist the single parents that are trying to continue work in the workplace with the impro vement of the lunch and aft er-school program. Or the women of this province would - 46 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 have been more pleased if there had been announce ments that would have ensured that there was greater assistance given to the day care cent res of this province by way of increased maintenance grants, rather than in the regressive fashion which was undertaken by the Minister of Community Services. And, Mr.

Speaker, the women of this province would have been happi er if there had been more distinctive and clear efforts undertaken to take those that would prefer to work from the women force off welfare and into jobs, and to move the women of this province from one of the lowest salary earning groups into a higher earning group in our communit y. Health care and social services are declining in this province, we say to the Minister of Health.

Health services ought to be extended and to be imp roved, and we call upon the Mi nister of Health and Social Development to get on his way, to get off his butt and to construct more non-profit nursing homes in Manitoba. He is not going to do that by subsidizing the private profit-orientated nursing home operators in this province. And to encourage present communit y health clinics and additional health clinics where they are desired by the people of this province. And to develop a comprehensive accident and sick ness program that has been long overdue.

And to bring about and extend dentures, optical and hearing aids for senio r citizens to be included under Ph armacare. -( Interjection)- The First Minister says, "Where are you going to get the money? Where are you going to get the money?" You know, during the space of the last two or three years, Mr. Speaker, we have seen concessions to the mining companies in order to ensure that millions of dollars which would have been available to the people of this province entered the coffers of the mining companies in the Province of Manitoba.

We have witnessed that those with higher incomes were given concessions in respect to taxation, while programs were cut for those of middle-class and lower-income-class groups. And, Mr. Speaker, where can the money come from? $1.3 million Tritschler Commission Report ; $300,000 Autopac Review Commission Report - dear knows how much for the Liquor Control Commission Report, and many other reports that are in process of prepara tion. That is where we can get the money. And, Mr.

Speaker, we will get the money by regenerating, reactivating the economy of the Province of Manitoba so we can move out of stagna tion, and so that we can ensure that there is a flow of money brought about by growth in this province, rather than record highs by way of outmigration and depopulation and economic decline. That is where the money will come, Mr. Speaker. We will be pleased to debate at any time with the First Minister as to where the money will come for these programs, and we will show him after 1981. Mr.

Speaker, we shall work towards the reduction of the disparities that exist within the regions of Manitoba, both northern and rural, that affect our farmers, our Indians, our Metis, our working people. We shall work towards programs that will ensure that the people of this province will ensure better control of the mines and natural resources in Manitoba so that those mines and natural resources are not mainly dominated by the multi-national corporations. And that's where some of the money will come from, Mr. Speaker.

The people of this province will enjoy the fruits and the benefits along with private entrepeneurs of the mines and the natural resources in Manito ba, and Mr. Speaker, we shall work towardS the improvement of the importance of education in Manitoba to ensure that none are denied a lack of education due to a lack of funds. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to conclude with a quote from Robert Frost the American poet.

In this poem, The Road Not Taken, Frost ponders the fact that he has come to a fork in the road and must choose between the two paths through a wood, and the poem reads, "two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by and that has made all the differ ence." Manitobans more and more are turning from the Con servative road - the road which leadS to the muskeg and to the swamp, the road which has led to despair, economic decline and greater inequality within the province. That's the direction their road has taken us.

They are turning more and more in larger numbers as Manitobans to the road which leads towardS social democratic values - a road with a social democratic destina tion; a road of hope; a grow road of greater equality; a road of greater opportunity for all to reach so that all may benefit. All may then benefi t - the entire community from the maximization of the individ ual's potential. Mr. Speake r, that is our challenge for the 1980s, that is the Manitoba, with the assistance and help of Manitobans, we intend to work towards construc tion of within the next decade. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. - 47 -

Monday, 25 February 1980 Mr. Speaker, I would beg to move that the Motion be amended, seconded by the Honourable Member for St.

Johns, by adding the following: But this House regrets that this government, (1) has shown its incompetence in managing the economy of Manitoba, causing an exodus of businesses and people from our province and dep ressing economic growth rate to the lowest in Canada; (2 ) has shifted funding and taxation resulting in increased user fees, post secondary tuition fees, and a heavier burden of property taxation; (3 ) and has permitted the deterior atio n in comprehensive health care for Manitobans while at the same time inc reasing user fees for nursing homes and pharmacare. MR.

DEPUTY SP EAKER, Abe Kovnats (Radi sson): The Hono urable Minister of Government Services. HO N. HARRY EN NS (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Attorney-General, that the debate be adjourned. MO TIO N presented and car ried. MR. DEPUTY SP EAKER: The Honou rable Gover nment House Leader. MR. MER CIER: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister for Economic Development, that this House do now adjourn. MOTI O N presented and car ried. MR. DEPUTY SP EAKER: The House now stands adjourned until Tuesday at 2:30 P. M. - 48 -

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	31-4-3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	31st 4th hansardpdf 3.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	99002a5f540182520ac5ea849b3629228e4524d7

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