British Columbia Hansard — 15 November 2021, p.m., Issue 128 (42nd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20211115pm-Hansard-n128

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 42nd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, November 15, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 128 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Second Session, 42nd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training...........................................................................................................Hon. Anne Kang Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries......................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing .............................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ....................................................................................................................Hon. Mitzi Dean Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.....................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Lisa Beare Minister of Education .................................................................................................................................................. Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Energy, Mines and Low Carbon Innovation ........................................................................................Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Finance .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Lands and Natural Resource Operations................................................................................. Hon.

Nathan Cullen Minister of Health and Minister Responsible for Francophone Affairs.............................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................... Hon. Murray Rankin, QC Minister of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation....................................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.............................................................................................................. Hon.

Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Municipal Affairs ............................................................................................................................................. Hon. Josie Osborne Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction........................................................................................... Hon. Nicholas Simons Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport .................................................................................................................. Hon.

Melanie Mark Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of State for Infrastructure ................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Bowinn Ma LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition...................................................................................................................................................Shirley Bond Leader of the Third Party .......................................................................................................................................................... Sonia Furstenau Deputy Speaker..........................................................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Assistant Deputy Speaker..............................................................................................................................................................Norm Letnick Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole .......................................................................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ...........................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.............................................................................................................................. Seunghee Suzie Seo Clerk Assistant, Parliamentary Services........................................................................................................................... Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees.......................................................................................................................................................................

Jennifer Arril Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..............................................................................................Susan Sourial Senior Research Analyst ................................................................................................................................................................... Karan Riarh Sergeant-at-Arms ........................................................................................................................................................................... Ray Robitaille

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Alexis, Pam (BC NDP) ............................................................Abbotsford-Mission Anderson, Brittny (BC NDP) .........................................................Nelson-Creston Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Penticton Babchuk, Michele (BC NDP)...............................................................North Island Bailey, Brenda (BC NDP).................................................. Vancouver–False Creek Bains, Hon. Harry (BC NDP).........................................................

Surrey-Newton Banman, Bruce (BC Liberal Party) ............................................ Abbotsford South Beare, Hon. Lisa (BC NDP) .......................................

Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (BC NDP).................................................................Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ...............................................Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal Party).................................Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (BC NDP) ................................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal Party) .............................................

Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie (BC NDP) ..............................................North Vancouver–Seymour Chen, Hon. Katrina (BC NDP) ............................................... Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Hon. Raj (BC NDP).................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon. George (BC NDP) ..........................................Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal Party)........................Columbia River–Revelstoke Conroy, Hon.

Katrine (BC NDP) ....................................................Kootenay West Coulter, Dan (BC NDP) .......................................................................... Chilliwack Cullen, Hon. Nathan (BC NDP) ................................................................... Stikine Davies, Dan (BC Liberal Party)................................................. Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal Party)....................................Abbotsford West Dean, Hon. Mitzi (BC NDP) ...............................................

Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (BC NDP) .........................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (BC NDP) ................................................ Vancouver-Kingsway Doerkson, Lorne (BC Liberal Party) ........................................Cariboo-Chilcotin Donnelly, Fin (BC NDP) .......................................... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Dykeman, Megan (BC NDP)............................................................... Langley East Eby, Hon. David, QC (BC NDP).......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (BC NDP) ..................................................Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (BC NDP) .................................................Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (BC NDP) ...............................................

Victoria–Swan Lake Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) .............................................Cowichan Valley Glumac, Rick (BC NDP) ..................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Greene, Kelly (BC NDP) ........................................................Richmond-Steveston Halford, Trevor (BC Liberal Party) .........................................Surrey–White Rock Heyman, Hon. George (BC NDP) .........................................Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (BC NDP) ......................................... Langford–Juan de Fuca Kahlon, Hon.

Ravi (BC NDP) .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon. Anne (BC NDP) .................................................. Burnaby–Deer Lake Kirkpatrick, Karin (BC Liberal Party) ........................West Vancouver–Capilano Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal Party)....................................................................Shuswap Lee, Michael (BC Liberal Party) ..............................................Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (BC NDP)...............................................

Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal Party) .................................. Kelowna–Lake Country Lore, Grace (BC NDP)........................................................... Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn (BC NDP).....................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila (BC NDP)........................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (BC NDP).................................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Mercier, Andrew (BC NDP) ........................................................................

Langley Merrifield, Renee (BC Liberal Party)......................................... Kelowna-Mission Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal Party) .......................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal Party) ................................. Prince George–Mackenzie Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal Party).................................................. Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)............................ Saanich North and the Islands Osborne, Hon.

Josie (BC NDP)........................................Mid Island–Pacific Rim Paddon, Kelli (BC NDP) ................................................................Chilliwack-Kent Paton, Ian (BC Liberal Party) ............................................................... Delta South Popham, Hon. Lana (BC NDP)........................................................ Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce, QC (BC NDP) .............................................Surrey-Whalley Rankin, Hon.

Murray, QC (BC NDP) .............................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Rice, Jennifer (BC NDP) ...................................................................... North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (BC NDP)...................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal Party)......................................................................... Skeena Routledge, Janet (BC NDP) .............................................................Burnaby North Routley, Doug (BC NDP)...........................................

Nanaimo–North Cowichan Russell, Roly (BC NDP).................................................... Boundary-Similkameen Rustad, John (BC Liberal Party)......................................................Nechako Lakes Sandhu, Harwinder (BC NDP) .................................................Vernon-Monashee Sharma, Niki (BC NDP)..........................................................Vancouver-Hastings Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal Party) .................................................... Kootenay East Simons, Hon. Nicholas (BC NDP).........................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Sims, Jinny (BC NDP) ................................................................. Surrey-Panorama Singh, Aman (BC NDP) .............................................Richmond-Queensborough Singh, Rachna (BC NDP)...................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Starchuk, Mike (BC NDP) ......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal Party) .......................................................

Kelowna West Stone, Todd (BC Liberal Party) ...............................Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal Party) ............................. West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal Party)....................................................... Fraser-Nicola Walker, Adam (BC NDP) ....................................................... Parksville-Qualicum Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal Party) ....................................... Richmond North Centre Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer (BC NDP) .........................................

New Westminster Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal Party)......................Vancouver-Quilchena Y ao, Henry (BC NDP) ..................................................... Richmond South Centre LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission................................................................................. Pam Alexis Abbotsford South...............................................................................Bruce Banman Abbotsford West......................................................................

Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen........................................................................ Roly Russell Burnaby–Deer Lake....................................................................... Hon. Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds......................................................................Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed .................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North .................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ..........................................................................Lorne Doerkson Cariboo North.................................................................................... Coralee Oakes Chilliwack ...............................................................................................Dan Coulter Chilliwack-Kent .................................................................................... Kelli Paddon Columbia River–Revelstoke .........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...............................................................Fin Donnelly Coquitlam-Maillardville ...................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox................................................................... Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................. Sonia Furstenau Delta North................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ..................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin .................................................................... Hon. Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola .........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson .............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson..................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country .....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission ...........................................................................

Renee Merrifield Kelowna West ..........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East.......................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West........................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca .............................................................. Hon.

John Horgan Langley .............................................................................................Andrew Mercier Langley East....................................................................................Megan Dykeman Maple Ridge–Mission.............................................................................. Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows............................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim............................................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne Nanaimo.............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan............................................................... Doug Routley Nechako Lakes........................................................................................ John Rustad Nelson-Creston ............................................................................. Brittny Anderson New Westminster.............................................................. Hon.

Jennifer Whiteside North Coast ........................................................................................... Jennifer Rice North Island................................................................................... Michele Babchuk North Vancouver–Lonsdale......................................................... Hon. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour...................................................................Susie Chant Oak Bay–Gordon Head..................................................Hon.

Murray Rankin, QC Parksville-Qualicum........................................................................... Adam Walker Peace River North ................................................................................... Dan Davies Peace River South ................................................................................ Mike Bernier Penticton ................................................................................................. Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam...................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam.......................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast..............................................Hon. Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie....................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount ..................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre..........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough..................................................................Aman Singh Richmond South Centre .......................................................................... Henry Y ao Richmond-Steveston ............................................................................

Kelly Greene Saanich North and the Islands .............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South .............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap...................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena........................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine........................................................................................ Hon.

Nathan Cullen Surrey-Cloverdale .............................................................................. Mike Starchuk Surrey-Fleetwood.....................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers........................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford......................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ..............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama ...................................................................................... Jinny Sims Surrey South ................................................................................ Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley ................................................................. Hon. Bruce Ralston, QC Surrey–White Rock .......................................................................... Trevor Halford Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek...................................................................... Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Fraserview...............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ..............................................................................Niki Sharma Vancouver-Kensington....................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway..................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara................................................................................ Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant..................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey ............................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena........................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End .....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee .....................................................................

Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill............................................................................... Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake.................................................................... Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Karin Kirkpatrick West Vancouver–Sea to Sky................................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC NDP 57; BC Liberal Party 28; BC Green Party 2

CONTENTS Monday, November 15, 2021 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 3999 Introduction and First Reading of Bills................................................................................................................................ 4000 Bill 30 — Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021 Bill 20 — Access to Services (COVID-19) Act Hon. D. Eby Bill 28 — Forest Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. K.

Conroy Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 4001 Millwrights and Millwrights Local 2736 D. Coulter Multiculturalism and anti-racism movement T. Wat Evacuated pets from Lytton fire and work of SPCA B. Bailey Diabetes awareness N. Letnick Oceanside Hospice Society A. Walker Apprenticeships in skilled trades G.

Kyllo Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 4004 Service model change for children with support needs and funding for autism services S. Bond Hon. M. Dean K. Kirkpatrick A. Olsen J. Tegart Deferral of old-growth logging and consultation with First Nations and forest industry J. Rustad Hon. K. Conroy Forest policy changes and socioeconomic analysis of impacts L. Doerkson Hon. K.

Conroy Petitions .................................................................................................................................................................................... 4010 A. Olsen Reports from Committees...................................................................................................................................................... 4010 Finance and Government Services Committee, Budget 2022 consultations J. Routledge B.

Stewart Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 4011 Bill 24 — Environmental Management Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. G. Heyman P . Milobar I. Paton Report and Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................................................... 4018 Bill 24 — Environmental Management Amendment Act, 2021

Committee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 4018 Bill 23 — Forests Statutes Amendment Act, 2021 Hon. K. Conroy J. Rustad A. Olsen L. Doerkson

MONDAY , NOVEMBER 15, 2021 The House met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members M. Dykeman: It’s an honour to rise and, for the first time, make an in-person introduction in this House today. As countless other MLAs have said before me, as MLAs, we really cannot do our jobs without the work of our highly trained and wonderful CAs. Today I have the hon- our to host two of my fabulous CAs here at the Legislature, Carley Haugen and Madison Portner. I was wondering if the House could please help me make them feel very welcome today in the precinct. Hon. R.

Kahlon: We have two very special guests here today. They are here visiting you and visiting all members of this chamber. Sitting up in the chamber, we have Rajinder Pandher, who was a founding member of the Burnaby Multicultural Society in the 1980s. [1:35 p.m.] He’s a founding trustee of the Khalsa School in 1986, served on the Multicultural Advisory Council in British Columbia from ’97 to 2001, awardee of the Burnaby com- munity volunteer hero award and awardee of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal. His partner, Raj Pandher, was a Second Street Com- munity School volunteer.

She served on the Burnaby lib- rary board as a member — vice-chair, as well as chair for five years — and volunteers with the Royal Columbian Hospital in New Westminster. Hon. Speaker, they are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary with all of us today. So please make them wel- come. R. Merrifield:Today I rise to celebrate Kelowna’s newest centenarian, Arnold Newman. He was born on November 15, 1921, in a small town in Poland and emigrated to Canada in June of 1928 with his parents and four siblings to a small farming village just outside of Leduc, Alberta.

In 1939, at the age of 18, Arnold left the family farm to search for work. He was eager to try all things new and found work all across Canada. He tried farming, coal mining, carpentry, construction, log- ging, camp and institutional cooking, heavy-equipment operating and just about anything else he could find. He served briefly in the Canadian military but was not able to actually go overseas as he was not yet a Cana- dian citizen. Canadian citizenship he sought and found in October of 1948. In 1954, he met and married Reta and lived with her happily for 53 years until Reta passed in 2007.

Arnold currently lives in a supported housing facility in Kelowna and, despite being wheelchair-bound, is very independent and does most of his chores without much help. Arnold is viewed by those who know him as a grate- ful and content individual. As he turns 100 today, he still loves to read and is very much engaged by the world around him. When I asked him what turning 100 meant, he said he was truly content with life and believes he is greatly blessed and still living his best life. Would the House please join me in celebrating his 100th birthday today. Hon. M.

Farnworth: In the gallery today, we have a vis- itor from Manitoba. Gord Mackintosh served 23 years as an NDP member of the Manitoba Legislature, including 17 years as a minister in the governments of Premiers Gary Doer and Greg Selinger. He’s visiting to see how our House operates. Would the House make him most welcome. T. Shypitka: Just a point of recognition, not so much an introduction. A couple of birthdays to announce. Over the break, my father, my mentor, a very big support system whether I was in business or right here in the Legislature, turned 80 on November 12. Then my grandson, on November 9….

Well, as he puts it: “I am two. ” He turned two years old on November 9. I’ d like the House just to wish them a happy belated birthday. Hon. B. Ma: The year is 1995, and it’s the month of Sep- tember. I’m ten years old at the time. The member for Nel- son-Creston is nine years old. I’m not entirely sure about her, but for me, I was completely oblivious that something historic was happening. Y ou see, nobody had told me that there was a ridiculous man beginning a three-week-long, 1,400-kilometre swim down B.C. ’s longest river, the Fraser.

It was called the Swim for Life to raise awareness for the deteriorating condition and health of the river.

In the years that followed, this incredible man foun- ded the Rivershed Society of British Columbia, made 14 more environmental marathon swims covering 3,200 kilometres, swam the Fraser River again and devoted much of his life to protecting west coast waters, includ- ing through his work as a local Member of Parliament and now as an MLA. [1:40 p.m.] Last Tuesday, November 9, the member for Coquitlam– Burke Mountain, who is also the Parliamentary Secretary for Fisheries and Aquaculture, was inducted into the Fraser River Hall of Fame. 3999

Would the members of the House please join me in con- gratulating him on this honour. D. Coulter: I’ d like to introduce, in our gallery today, Dale Jackaman. Dale is a Chilliwack, Richmond and Van- couver business person, a long-time NDP stalwart and a former B.C. NDP candidate. He’s the president of a private investigation firm. Currently he is the constituent of the member for Richmond-Steveston, but I’m told that very shortly he will be my constituent. He does own property in my riding. And I’m told that very shortly he turns 65. Would the House please welcome Dale today. R.

Russell: The member for Langley East mentioned earlier that there are some people we need to get our jobs done. It extends beyond staff, I would say, and our family and friends certainly are part of that. It’s my privilege today to introduce in the House my partner, Christine, and my children Juno and Gabriel. I would hope that everybody could join me in welcoming them. Also, I didn’t forget this, but last week when we were at home, we also celebrated our 15th wedding anniversary. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL 30 — ATTORNEY GENERAL STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 Hon. D.

Eby presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021. Hon. D. Eby: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. I’m pleased to introduce the Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021. This bill would amend the COV- ID-19 Related Measures Act to change the sunset date for the act to December 31, 2022, an extension of one year from the act’s current automatic repeal date.

Extending the time period that the COVID-19 Related Measures Act would be enforced would provide continued statutory authority for a number of orders and regulations that are still needed to respond to and alleviate the effects of the pandemic. This bill would also amend the Judicial Compensation Commission amendment act. The Judicial Compensation Act sets out the appointment, functions and reporting of the Judicial Compensation Commission, as well as a pro- cess for government’s response to the commission’s recom- mendations.

The Judicial Compensation Commission is the consti- tutionally required independent body that is appointed every three years to determine the remuneration, allow- ances and benefits of Provincial Court judges and judi- cial justices. This bill contains amendments that are pro- cedural in nature and will streamline the commission process, leading to a timelier and more efficient process for all parties. Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. D. Eby: I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 30, Attorney General Statutes Amendment Act, 2021, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. BILL 20 — ACCESS TO SERVICES (COVID-19) ACT Hon. D. Eby presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Access to Services (COVID-19) Act. Hon. D. Eby: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. I’m pleased to introduce the Access to Services (COV- ID-19) Act.

The purpose of this bill is to preserve safe and unimpeded access to services of public importance during the COVID-19 pandemic, including protecting users and service providers from intimidation and other disruptive behaviours. The bill will establish access zones around cer- tain classes of facilities and specifies the types of conduct or behaviour that are prohibited in an access zone. The bill also includes the power for the Lieutenant-Gov- ernor-in-Council to make regulations that establish access zones around other facilities or classes of facilities.

Before making such a regulation, the bill requires the Lieutenant- Governor-in-Council to have regard for a number of factors: the strain placed on services of public importance by the COVID-19 pandemic, the importance of the ser- vices provided at the particular facility or facilities to the health, education, safety or well-being of members of the public and the need to protect access to those services. [1:45 p.m.] The bill includes a provision to clarify that lawful labour action under the Labour Relations Code, such as strikes, lockouts and picketing, does not constitute an offence under the act.

The proposed legislation contains a sunset clause and will be repealed on July 1, 2023, or earlier by regulation. Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill. 4000 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

Motion approved. Hon. D. Eby: I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 20, Access to Services (COVID-19) Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. BILL 28 — FOREST AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 Hon. K. Conroy presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Forest Amendment Act, 2021. Hon. K. Conroy: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

I’m pleased to introduce Bill 28, the Forest Amendment Act, 2021. In line with our government’s new vision for forestry, this bill proposes amendments to the Forest Act that will provide us with the tools to better care for our forests, support reconciliation with Indigenous nations and build a more diverse and inclusive forestry industry. Our forests make B.C. one of the best places to live, but the outdated forestry policies aren’t working for British Columbians.

As the pressure on timber supply continues due to the impacts of beetle epidemics, wildfires and cli- mate change, government needs the tools to manage our forests in the public interest. First Nations, local communities and smaller companies want to play a greater role in the forestry sector and to benefit from the opportunities it could provide. The pro- posed legislation will establish a tool that will enable gov- ernment to reduce timber harvesting rights of existing forest tenure holders, provide compensation and redistrib- ute the timber harvesting rights to First Nations and com- munities.

The tool will also enable redistribution of harvesting rights of B.C. Timber Sales, which directly supports over 8,000 forestry jobs to British Columbians. In addition, the amendments will address uncertainty with respect to the current compensation rules by developing a consistent and clear framework outlining what is compensable and how it is to be valued. This will apply in instances when a licensee’s timber-harvesting rights are reduced to support reconciliations or other objectives.

We’re also requiring transparency by requiring area- based tenure holders to share forest inventory information with the chief forester. This will provide government with the information and tools necessary to ensure our forest sector remains sustainable. There will also be increased accountability for log exporters through a new auditing system to make sure they have paid their full fee in lieu of domestic manufacturing, ensuring that British Colum- bians are receiving their fair share of resource revenue.

We are also bringing forward a legislative change that will give the Ministry of Finance the necessary power to ensure that companies pay their fees in lieu as required by the Forest Act. The Forest Act requires a fee, referred to as a fee in lieu, to be paid to the government for timber exported out of British Columbia under an exemption from the requirement to manufacture timber in B.C. The amendments to

part 11.1 of the Forest Act will provide authority for the income taxation branch of the Ministry of Finance to audit and make assessments in respect of the fee in lieu. We know from our work with other programs that this proposed change promotes vol- untary tax compliance within the sector, and this will help us ensure a fair regulatory program for businesses in B.C. Overall, this proposed legislation makes long-overdue changes to ensure that our primary forest sector remains strong while building a more diverse and inclusive forest industry.

We’re taking action to ensure that our forests are managed in the public interest and that the benefits are better shared for generations to come. We owe it to our kids and grandkids to better care for our forests in a future where workers, communities and First Nations have a sus- tainable sector with new, innovative opportunities. Mr. Speaker: Members, first reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. K. Conroy: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 28, Forest Amendment Act, 2021, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) MILLWRIGHTS AND MILLWRIGHTS LOCAL 2736 D. Coulter: As many of my colleagues know, I used to work as a millwright. In fact, I never shut up about it. Millwrights work in nearly every industry, everything from power generation, textiles, mining, forestry, dairy, ski hills, solar and wind power, brewing. The list goes on.

Today I’ d like to congratulate some very special mill- wrights, those from Local 2736, on the 65th anniversary of their union. [1:50 p.m.] Millwrights Local 2736 was chartered on May 17, 1956, under the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4001

of America, as the international trade union. Currently they represent 450 members, journeypersons, apprentices and retirees in B.C. On a yearly average, they employ 50 apprentices and currently have a female apprenticeship representation of 13 percent and an Indigenous appren- ticeship representation of 10 percent. Millwrights 2736 has been a major supporter in con- struction of B.C. Hydro dams and pulp and paper mill plants being built throughout the province. Often they are dispatched to facilities on emergency jobs to support their contractors and clients in need.

The millwrights help their clients avoid shutdowns, lost product and potential inter- ruptions in customer service. With this all said, Millwrights 2736 is probably the number one supporter of indentured apprenticeships in the province of B.C. and becomes a gateway for many major companies to hire young journeypersons to their maintenance team and avoid having to indenture appren- tices themselves. They train their young apprentices to the best standards and work ethics in their dynamic trade. This produces the most efficient and productive workers in the province of B.C.

Next time you flick on the lights, crack a beer or write a speech on a piece of paper, thank a millwright. Will the House please join me in congratulating Mill- wrights 2736 on their 65th anniversary. MULTICULTURALISM AND ANTI-RACISM MOVEMENT T. Wat:The third week of November is known as Mul- ticulturalism Week, a week to celebrate the many con- tributions our multicultural communities have made to build B.C. and honour the incredible cultural diversity that drives our province’s success and identity.

As an immigrant myself, I share similar experiences with many of our colleagues in this House and countless British Columbians across our province. Whether we are First Nations, first-generation or fifth-generation British Columbians, we must embrace our diverse cultural back- grounds and celebrate our common identity as British Columbians. Being a British Columbian is not determined by the soil we are born on.

It is an identity earned by each and every one of us when we adopt the values of inclusion, openness and prosperity for all by dedicating ourselves to the shared mission of making B.C. a more welcoming and inclusive home for all. We must also recognize and honour the tra- ditional lands and territories of the more than 200 First Nations across our province, on which we are blessed to work, play and live every day. Today is about more than celebrating our cultural diversity. It’s about recognizing the many challenges our cultural minorities have and continue to face.

From the rising race incidents perpetuated against Asian Canadians and other cultural minorities to the horrific discovery of unmarked graves at residential school sites, we are reminded every day that we still have far to go to truly eliminate racism, advance truth and reconciliation and build a province where cultural identity and background are never barriers in life. B.C. is the most culturally diverse province in Canada, and we welcome 40,000 British Columbians from across the globe every year.

So let’s all do our part to promote and celebrate our province’s multiculturalism this week and every week and build a better B.C. for all. EV ACUATED PETS FROM LYTTON FIRE AND WORK OF SPCA B. Bailey: We are all familiar with the terrible situation this past June when a forest fire tore through the town of Lytton and the Lytton First Nation. As people fled to safety, it was sometimes necessary to leave animals behind. Elder Byron Spinks of the Lytton First Nation went every day for three weeks to the peri- meter of the town, hoping to get news of his lost dog, named Baby.

Elder Spinks said that they were just about to give up hope when Baby was found. And here’s the thing. When you hear him speak, it’s not just the hope of finding his beloved dog. I think he’s talking about hope in general. Pets play such an important role in our psyche. They help us keep going when times are tough. [1:55 p.m.] Last week I learned about the incredible work of the SPCA during this tragedy, how 323 animals were brought to the emergency animal care centre or to local SPCA branches.

These animals were provided veterinary treat- ment, often for burnt paws, and the work to reunite them with their families began. Sometimes even when the fam- ilies were found, they were unable to take their pet in their current setting. The SPCA then set up long-term foster homes for these pets, giving owners peace of mind that their fur babies were safe until they could take them back. In addition to this, the SPCA animal protection officers went behind fire lines to care for 238 animals, mostly live- stock. That puts the total number of Lytton animals cared for by the SPCA at 561 animals. It matters.

Elder Spinks says it best: “Our family is complete now. Although our house is gone, we can rebuild. We’re just tak- ing it day by day for now, but it makes it a lot easier with our little fur baby here. ” To the SPCA, to all those who made donations to the wildfire response and to everyone fostering animals for our fellow British Columbians forced from their homes, thank you. DIABETES AW ARENESS N. Letnick: Y esterday, November 14, was World Dia- betes Day. British Columbians and Canadians use the col- our blue to honour World Diabetes Day, a day that unites 4002 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

the global diabetes community to raise awareness and advocate for positive action to help the 11 million Cana- dians living with diabetes. Chances are that we all know somebody with diabetes. Actually, in this House, we all do know someone with dia- betes: our Health Minister, who makes no bones about it and uses that to promote World Diabetes all around our community. We have people like my mom, like the Health Minister, who….

Although it’s possible for the majority of people to live healthy and normal lives, as we see, there are many risks associated with diabetes, including kidney disease, foot and leg problems, eye disease that can lead to blind- ness, heart attack, stroke, anxiety and nerve damage. People with diabetes must balance the challenges of every- day life with a strict diet, nutrition, fitness and a balance of blood sugar and insulin levels.

Although recognized around the world, Diabetes Day Canada has a special significance, for we often pioneer the many studies and innovations that have allowed people with diabetes to live healthy and normal lives. November 14 was chosen as World Diabetes Day back in 1991 to hon- our the birthday of Canadian Sir Frederick Banting, who, along with Dr. Charles Best, J.J.R Macleod and James Col- lip, is credited with the discovery of insulin. Our duty as British Columbians and Canadians is to carry on their legacy and the generation of heroes who have done so much to forward this incredible cause.

So let’s all do our part to raise awareness and donate to Dia- betes Canada so that, together, we can bring an end to this scourge for all time. OCEANSIDE HOSPICE SOCIETY A. Walker: I rise in the House today to recognize the incredible work of the Oceanside Hospice Society. For over 30 years, this community-funded and volunteer-driv- en charity has supported individuals who face end-of-life issues, bereavement, grief and loss, both for patients and for families and caregivers. This also includes supports for those facing sudden loss, ranging from suicide and over- doses to accidents.

The society was formally incorporated to continue the legacy of many years of community support and today has over 65 volunteers and five part-time staff. Hospice is an integral part of the interdisciplinary end- of-life team within the Oceanside community, practising a holistic approach to care, where the quality of life and the patient’s comfort is the top priority. They strive to provide links in the continuum of care by supporting caregivers at home, in a hospital or palliative care unit and at a com- munity care facility. Bereavement counselling has increased and continues to rise with the COVID-19 pandemic.

Their work of on- site counsellors provides more than 21 hours every week, with a second on-call counsellor to cover the overflow. Their equipment loan program is unique, as they’re the only hospice on Vancouver Island to provide this valuable service. This allows palliative patients to stay at home longer, in comfort and surrounded by those that they love. All of these services are offered free of charge, and they are accomplished through the continual and dedicated fun- draising efforts of volunteers year-round.

The end of a loved one’s life is a difficult time under any circumstance, and the COVID-19 pandemic has made things even more challenging for families and those left behind to grieve. But one thing is certain. Oceanside Hos- pice Society will continue to find ways to ensure end-of- life care is provided safely and compassionately. [2:00 p.m.] Before I conclude today, I would like to specially recog- nize the executive director, Julie Chambers, who has gone above and beyond during the pandemic and has exempli- fied leadership for our community. APPRENTICESHIPS IN SKILLED TRADES G.

Kyllo: I rise in the House today to recognize a very special group of workers. With over 100 different trades available in B.C., apprenticeships play a key role in deliver- ing skilled tradespeople to meet the needs of training our workforce. November is Apprenticeship Recognition Month, a time to highlight the importance of trades careers in B.C.

The Industry Training Authority has embarked on an apprenticeship awareness campaign, #apprenticenow, aimed at showing the real-world value that skilled trades bring to our province: bakers, barbers, boilermakers, cab- inetmakers, carpenters, cooks, motorcycle mechanics, meat cutters, machinists, power engineering and plumb- ers. Who knows? Maybe one day we might even see a training program for politicians.

Now, despite their vital importance to our everyday lives and the incredible opportunities available through the trades, apprenticeship training oftentimes lacks the recog- nition and the appreciation it truly deserves. Demand for skilled trades workers in B.C. continues to grow. According to the 2019 labour market outlook, 73,000 job openings are expected in trades through 2029. A lot of these job openings are the result of many of our skilled tradespeople retiring, which is why apprenticeships are so vitally important to our province. They help build and inspire the next generation of skilled tradespeople.

Trades continue to be underrepresented by women, Indigenous Canadians and cultural minorities. Only 10 percent of B.C. apprentices are currently women, with only 7 percent of B.C. apprentices being Indigenous. Now, I also want to take a moment to recognize and honour those who are instrumental in encouraging young British Columbians to pursue careers in trades. In my own school district, people like Reid Findlay, Michelle Hall, Curtis Bellows, Doug Brown, Greg Seed Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4003

and John Quilty are invaluable for encouraging and guiding our students to develop the skills, knowledge and passion they need to pursue careers in the trades through the district’s career education in applied design, skills and technology programs.

Would the House please join me in recognizing all of the incredible people who are helping to raise the next generation of tradespeople — including the apprentices, their educational institutions and teachers, the sponsoring employers and the regulatory bodies that oversee the training and certification of our tradespeople — and in wishing all British Columbians in the trades a great Apprenticeship Recognition Month. Oral Questions SERVICE MODEL CHANGE FOR CHILDREN WITH SUPPORT NEEDS AND FUNDING FOR AUTISM SERVICES S.

Bond: For weeks, we’ve been raising legitimate ques- tions on behalf of parents about this government’s claw- back of autism funding. We’ve heard a minister of the Crown call the comments “sanctimonious. ” Just today we heard dismissive comments by the mem- ber for Chilliwack-Kent. Well, you know what? A constitu- ent of that member, Donna Hemmings, listened to her words today. This is what she had to say to her MLA: “We’re not scared of change. What we’re scared of is how the NDP government decided for us not to be part of the decision- making process for our children.

How rude for my MLA to say that people are capitalizing on fears. This is just another proof that they are not listening. The minister created the fear by not consulting, by not listening to us. My MLA ’s comment is rude and dismissive of what are the justifiable fears of parents. ” Parents across this province are worried. They are frus- trated, and they are angry. It has everything to do with a unilateral decision by this minister and this government — not the words of the opposition. This is squarely on the shoulder of this minister and government.

Today, on behalf of parents across British Columbia, 17,000 of whom have signed a petition, will the minister and her colleagues stop being dismissive of the concerns that parents are expressing? Will she end the clawback and do the right thing today? [2:05 p.m.] Hon. M. Dean: It is really important to be listening to families and to be hearing the expertise and experiences of families caring for children and youth with neurodi- verse needs, including families with children with a dia- gnosis of autism. We started this work nearly three years ago now, and we’re continuing this transition through to 2025.

We are holding information sessions starting this very month, and those conversations will continue. We’ll continue to hear from families and Indigenous communities and service providers to inform this operationalization of this new framework in the best interest of children, youth and families. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition, supple- mental. S. Bond: To the minister again, she missed a step. The information sessions — and the minister knows this — are not about consulting. They’re about talking about imple- mentation.

Parents are asking and begging this minister to back up, not to talk about implementation. Well, if the minister stubbornly refuses to listen, every single one of her silent colleagues should start speaking up for their constituents. We know that MLAs on that side of the House have had dozens, if not hundreds, of letters from parents. In fact, will the MLA for Richmond-Queensborough listen to his constituent Mike Sachs, who says: “I question the need to destroy a service that has helped thousands of families over 20 years and replace it with government-run hubs.

I call on the minister to immediately stop this plan. ” Will the MLA for Vancouver-Fraserview listen to a con- stituent, Sabrina Sandhu, who is heartbroken and scared for her son, Dominic. She writes: “We need you to care. We need you to put a stop to this. Please don’t turn our world upside down. ” Not my words. Not the words of the opposition. The words of desperate, frightened and upset parents who are writing to their MLAs, who were sent to Victoria to be their voice in this Legislature. And what do they hear? Nothing. Will someone, anyone, in the government please listen to parents?

They are asking for the minister to back up, to consult like she should have done in the first place and, most importantly, to end the clawback today. Hon. M. Dean: We will continue to listen to families, and we will continue to listen to service providers and Indigenous communities as well. As we move forward now, starting at the end of this month, we’re engaging in those meaningful conversations, and that dialogue and those conversations will continue in the weeks and months ahead. We are delivering on early implementation areas so that we can evaluate the process of delivering on the new framework.

I absolutely understand that some families have con- cerns and have anxieties. We will be working with them. We have the time to be able to create really positive trans- itions with families, putting their child and youth at the centre, working in partnership with parents, understand- ing that, for a long time, they’ve had to create that package of services for their children and youth. More children and youth will receive services under the 4004 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

new framework, children and youth who get left behind today. Satbir Cheema, executive director of Progressive Inter- cultural Community Services Society, says: “It can be extremely challenging for parents to have to shop around for the best supports for their child, especially for families for whom English may not be their first language. Services that are culturally safe, inclusive, easy to navigate and offered in one convenient location are critical to ensuring all children and youth with support needs are getting the help they need. ” K.

Kirkpatrick: We continue to ask questions, and we continue to get the same platitudes back from this govern- ment and this minister. Last week this minister falsely claimed that families — and again just now — with English as a second language support this clawback. Rosa Gonzales responds that she is a service provider to over 90 families, most of whom are Filipinos and immigrants, and that she is acutely aware of the specific needs of underrepresented groups. [2:10 p.m.] She says: “To believe that immigrant families are unable to select or manage their service teams is naive and cultur- ally insensitive.

To take away this individualized funding and the families’ freedom to choose will effectively disen- franchise these families. ” Will the minister respect parents’ choices and stop this clawback? Hon. M. Dean: I do understand that there are many parents out there who are concerned and who are worried. There are families for whom they have been able — even- tually, after struggling, we’ve heard, for a long time — to create a package of services. But for many other children with support needs, they have been left behind, and it hasn’t been possible for them to receive the services that they need.

Under the new framework, children with autism will still receive the services that they need. Not only that, chil- dren whose parents are concerned that they might have an autism diagnosis will receive services earlier and while they might be waiting for a diagnosis. In addition to that, children and youth, where there are other concerns — brain injury, for example, fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, Down syndrome — will also be able to access services that meet their needs. What that means is that they will be able to thrive. They will meet their developmental milestones. They will fulfil their potential. Mr.

Speaker: Member for West Vancouver–Capilano, supplemental. K. Kirkpatrick: Alisha Mohamed-Pal is a constituent of the MLA for Vancouver-Hastings. She is the mother of Leila, an extraordinary little girl who wears braces on both of her legs and was recently diagnosed with autism. Alisha has past experience with the hub model, but with indi- vidualized funding, she is now working to set up a team to help Leila thrive. Alisha writes: “We are her parents, and we know best how to do that. The thought of these choices being taken away is just not acceptable. ” We will ask again.

Will the minister listen to Alisha and countless other families and end this clawback? Hon. M. Dean: I absolutely understand that parents are the experts in the lives of their children, the needs of their children. I’m absolutely passionately committed to work- ing in partnership with parents. Having worked in the field for over 30 years, I know that that is the best model, and in the new framework, that is the commitment that we are making, to work in partnership with parents. We’re putting children and youth at the centre.

There’s a multidisciplinary team of professionals and workers who will work with that family to make sure that each child and youth, based on their unique and individu- al needs, will receive the services that they need for them to be able to fulfil their potential. As Dr. Chow, president of Doctors of B.C., has said: “I am very pleased to see the provincial government move towards a needs-based system of supports for these chil- dren and their families. As a specialist in child and youth mental health, I know that neurodiversity and disability do not always fit nicely into diagnostic categories.

I look for- ward to the positive impact for everyone involved in help- ing our children grow and succeed. ” A. Olsen: For weeks, we’ve heard the Minister of Chil- dren and Families repeat the same rhetoric. Unfortunately, it’s failed to provide the comfort that she’s been hoping that it would. Darwyn Danesh had Down syndrome, autism and other conditions. For his entire life, like thousands of children in British Columbia, he fought for basic access to services, which he never got, including when he was dying last year. His father, Dr.

Roshan Danesh, who is well known to this government as a human rights advocate, made it clear in an editorial this weekend that changes proposed by the Minister of Children and Families will make things worse, not just for kids like Darwyn but for all children with dis- abilities. Dr. Danesh said these changes will lead to each child not being treated as an individual with integrity and dignity. He warned the changes are unscientific and will lead to a system that is even more discriminatory. [2:15 p.m.] My question is to the Minister of Children and Family Development.

Will the minister listen to people who have lived experience and professional experience like Dr. Danesh and put their plans to change the system on hold so the proper engagement with parents, experts and organizations can take place? Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4005

Hon. M. Dean:I thank the family for sharing their story with us. What a difficult story to tell. I thank all the fam- ilies who have shared their stories with us on our journey as we try and make improvements to services for children and youth with support needs here in British Columbia. I have been hearing concerns from families, and we will continue to listen to families. In fact, listening to feedback from families has been at the heart of the work that we’ve been doing in this ministry.

For example, during the pandemic, we heard from fam- ilies who told us that they wanted to be able to use the respite funding that they get in a more flexible way so that they would actually feel better supported in taking care of their children and youth. We implemented that as an emergency measure. We have now turned that into a permanent measure, as well, because we were listening to families and what they need from us as a government. We are continuing to listen to families. We’ve started to register people for information sessions that will be start- ing later on this month.

We will continue those conver- sations, and we will continue to show families where and how we’re listening to them as we continue to develop these services. Mr. Speaker: Member for Saanich North and the Islands, supplemental. A. Olsen: Y ou know, the only people that are nodding to this rhetoric are the people that are sitting in this room. For weeks, we have heard story after story of British Col- umbians coming and imploring this government to stop, to take a step back and to start a process at the beginning, not in the middle. Over the last few weeks, Dr.

Danesh has spoken with senior representatives of this government about how the proposed changes will impact children like Dr. Danesh’s late son, Darwyn — those with the most complex special needs. From the response of those representatives, it was apparent that they did not know what the impact of these changes would be on the children. Government represen- tatives suggested that this is why they will be running a pilot project, to figure these impacts out. This is a shocking admission. These are children’s lives, and these uninformed decisions will impact thousands of families in British Columbia.

Is this government really going to experiment on these already vulnerable children and families? Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member will continue. A. Olsen: To the Minister of Children and Family Development, does the minister really think that it is sound public policy to subject children and families in crisis to a pilot project to see if their government plans may work? Does the minister think that her approach is in the best interest of children and families? Hon. M.

Dean:I can absolutely assure everybody in this House that nothing is more important to us and our gov- ernment than the children and youth of British Columbia. We are continuing our work, making sure that we put chil- dren and youth at the centre, and we will continue to listen to the experiences of families as we go through this pro- cess. We will continue to adapt the process as well.

I’ d like to take this opportunity to say thank you to all of the staff in my ministry who also put the welfare and the well-being and the health and happiness of the chil- dren of this province as the number one priority in their daily work. J. Tegart:The NDP have decided they know better than parents and have caused chaos and confusion in the entire disability sector. AutismBC says: “The government has failed to provide any information about how the sweeping changes impact many other programs in the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Social Development and Poverty Reduction.

The fear and stress this is causing families is unacceptable. ” [2:20 p.m.] The clawback impacts eligibility criteria for multiple services in the Ministry of Social Development, including the personalized supports initiative, individualized fund- ing and Community Living B.C. Will the Minister of Social Development give a clear answer to parents on how the clawback and lack of assess- ments will affect those who need CLBC supports? Hon. M. Dean: I thank the member for the question. We are putting children and youth at the heart of the framework that we’re developing.

The new model does not require a diagnosis for service for children and youth, but that doesn’t mean that a diagnosis is…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members. Continue. Hon. M. Dean: Thank you, hon. Speaker. Having a diagnosis can also be a helpful tool for chil- dren and youth and for individuals to create a service package. We’re not saying that it’s not helpful for children and youth to have a diagnosis. Families will make their decisions about what’s helpful for people in their family.

The Ministry of Children and Family Development will be working closely with other ministries to make sure that there are seamless wrap- around services for children and youth wherever they are. As we know, they live multifaceted lives, and we’ll make 4006 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

sure that we work in partnership across government to support them. Mr. Speaker: Member for Fraser-Nicola, supplemental. J. Tegart: Well, without sounding sanctimonious, the parents and advocates don’t believe the government. On a whim, the system is being thrown out without consulta- tion or detailed answers, and this has added stress and fear for parents and the entire community. As AutismBC president Kaye Banez says: “There is no faith that this new framework is actually going to work because there has been no transparency or consultation….

And we don’t see it happening now. ” Will the Minister of Social Development stop the claw- back and listen to parents and advocates? Hon. M. Dean: It is really important to make sure that we listen to families and also other people with experience and experts as well. For nearly three years now, we’ve been engaging with and listening to families and service pro- viders, people with expertise, Indigenous communities as well, and over the next few years, as we continue this work, we’ll continue those conversations. Indeed, just last week…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Let’s hear. Okay.

Member for Nechako Lakes. DEFERRAL OF OLD-GROWTH LOGGING AND CONSULTATION WITH FIRST NATIONS AND FOREST INDUSTRY J. Rustad: We’ve heard all kinds of problems about con- sultation and the lack thereof, and the reviews are in. In the forest sector, there is agreement. The NDP’s lack of consultation is absolutely astounding. First Nations are saying no. Y ou can’t have a decision in 30 days. Chief Willie Sellers says: “What is the expecta- tion out of the government — that we’re going to turn this thing around in 30 days and actually give them a meaning- ful response?” The Union of B.C.

Indian Chiefs refers to it as a political soufflé. Can the minister explain why she chose not to properly consult with the First Nations and other communities on such an important issue? Hon. K. Conroy: I really appreciate the question. This is such a critical issue for the people of B.C., so I’m really happy to get a question in question period about it. I’ d like to point out to the member that, in fact, there has been considerable consultation since 2017, when we first formed government, because we recognized that there were outdated policies in this province that needed to change.

We needed to ensure that the forests of this province were being shared with the First Nations people. And what I have been hearing — critically important, very critically important — is that we have to consult with the rights and title holders. I hear that every time we reach out to Indi- genous nations. They… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s hear the answer, please. Hon. K. Conroy: …are saying to us that we need to consult with the rights and title holders.

We have let nations know that we are looking at a 30-day time period to hear whether they want to engage further, to hear whether they want to defer or not. [2:25 p.m.] It’s really interesting that the members laugh at that. We think this is critically important. We think it’s critically important because we have to find out if they do want to defer; if, in fact, they feel that there has been enough defer- ral on their traditional territory; if they want to talk about further harvesting, other deferrals, conservation. We want to have those conversations.

It is critically important, and we will continue to do that. Mr. Speaker: Member for Nechako Lakes, supplemen- tal. J. Rustad: Let me just get it right in terms of what the minister said. They spent four years out, apparently doing some sort of consultation, and then they come out with an announcement and blindside everybody. How is that con- sultation? I have trouble understanding what the minister is trying to say. First Nations have been very clear. What they’ve been told is that they have 30 days to decide whether these deferrals go forward or not. How is that the proper con- sultation?

That’s not proper engagement. But you know what? It’s not just First Nations that were blindsided. Government’s announcement, of course, around this also took the Steelworkers by surprise. Jeff Bromley, for the United Steelworkers, says the NDP announcement was “a gut punch. ” The biggest punch is, quite frankly, the complete uncer- tainty this has now created for 18,000 forest workers whose jobs are now at risk, according to COFI.

They have no idea what the future holds, and quite frankly, the government has not put any plans in place to support them through any kind of transition that may or may not be implemented. First Nations are unhappy. Labour leaders are unhappy. Forest communities aren’t happy. Will the minister stop this brutally political process and actually listen to those directly impacted? Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4007

Hon. K. Conroy: Again, I want to thank the member for the question, because I do want to clarify that there have been discussions. I mean, we introduced our inten- tions paper this spring, and before we introduced the intentions paper, we had those consultations. Last fall the government introduced the strategic review on old growth. Everyone we talked to agreed with the recommendations in the old growth strategic review. Everybody agreed with it. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s…. Hon. K. Conroy: We talked to industry. We talked to labour. We talked to communities. Everybody agreed. Interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Order. Hon. K. Conroy: Everybody agreed that we needed to move forward with new legislation. We needed to move forward with deferrals of old growth because we needed to recognize that it’s not either-or. It’s not about jobs or the environment. It’s not about the economy or the environ- ment. It’s about doing both, and it’s something we can do. Ask your own colleague about that. The member up in Prince George–Mackenzie said that something should have been done decades ago. Y ou know, your own member said that it should have been done…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the minister.

The minister will continue. Hon. K. Conroy: The member also said that if some- thing had been done years ago, we wouldn’t be in the pos- ition we’re in now. As the minister responsible, I will not have people talking about me ten years from now, saying: “She should have done something and didn’t do anything. ” FOREST POLICY CHANGES AND SOCIOECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF IMPACTS L. Doerkson: The one thing that has happened on this side is that we do share differences of opinion, unlike the other side over there that has not put anybody up to debate the FOIPPA bill or anything else. We definitely…. Not only has there….

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. The member is asking a ques- tion. Let’s listen to him. L. Doerkson: Not only has there been surprise, but there’s been confusion as well. The minister might want to focus on what she’s doing to the thousands of families who count on the forest sector. [2:30 p.m.] The people on the front line estimate 18,000 jobs could be lost. We have the Minister of Forests saying it won’t be that bad. There will be just 4,500 jobs lost. And the Minis- ter of Jobs has said: “It’s impossible to guess the exact num- ber.

I think it’s a little premature to throw numbers out. ” It’s confusing, to say the least. Will the Forests Minister table a socioeconomic study today or admit that she was just throwing numbers out? Hon. K. Conroy: I thank the member for this question. Y eah. I’ d like to throw a number out. I’ d like to throw the number out of 30,000 people, 30,000 people who lost their jobs under the former government. I know the member wasn’t there. I’ll tell him what happened. So 30,000 people lost their jobs. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K.

Conroy: Some 30,000 people got absolutely no support from members opposite — 30,000 people and communities. Communities got no…. Interjections. Hon. K. Conroy: Well, you can keep beaking off all you’ d like, but I’ll tell you what happened. Y ou know, 30,000 people lost their jobs. Absolutely no support. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, come to order. Minister. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members will come to order now. The question was asked. The minister has to give the answer. Minister. Hon. K. Conroy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There was absolutely no support for communities.

We are doing things differently because we respect workers. We respect communities. We understand. I know what it was like to go through living in a forestry-dependent community under that jurisdiction. I know how many people lost their jobs with no support. I know there was no support to communities. 4008 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Conroy: We will have supports in place… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members will come to order now. Hon. K. Conroy: …not only for workers but for com- munities and for their families. We will have those sup- ports in place because we are committed to this. Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. L. Doerkson: Y ou know, under the B.C. jobs plan, the forest sector saw the addition of 10,000 jobs… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Let’s listen to the question, please. Order. Let’s listen to the question. L.

Doerkson: …all of which have been lost under the NDP , and the minister seems to be just warming up. More than 18,000 people are being threatened by the government’s decision, and the minister hasn’t even bothered to do a socioeconomic study. The Forests Minis- ter claimed there would be 4,500 jobs lost. The Jobs Minis- ter contradicted her, saying: “The numbers are premature. It’s jumping the gun. ” What this government has done has caused confusion. It has caused chaos and anxiety right across the province.

The minister has let down First Nations, labour leaders and forest communities and created a patchwork plan that raises more questions than answers. Will the minister today table a socioeconomic study that outlines what workers can expect? Interjections. Mr. Speaker: She hasn’t even started yet, guys. All right, let’s listen to the minister. Hon. K. Conroy: Y ou know, it’s just such hypocrisy. I mean, jobs were shipped away, and 30,000 jobs were lost. Dozens of mills were closed. At the same time, there were no supports. Don’t take it from me.

Take it from your own colleague from Prince George–Mackenzie, who says… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Conroy: …that’s something that should have been looked at decades ago to ensure the forest industry was more sustainable. We have a plan. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Conroy: We have a plan. Our plan is a vision for forest care. Our plan is to protect our oldest and most ancient forests. Our plan is that Indigenous people are full partners in sustainable forest management.

Our plan is that workers and communities are supported with secure, innovative forestry jobs for generations to come. [2:35 p.m.] We are going to implement all 14 recommendations of the old growth strategic review. We are going to do detailed socioeconomic analyses…. Interjections. Hon. K. Conroy: If you let me finish…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, let her finish. Hon. K. Conroy: When deferrals are made, we will do those… Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Hon. K. Conroy: …detailed socioeconomic analyses of individual communities. We have done an overview of the entire province.

We will not be seeing deferrals over the entire province. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order. Hon. K. Conroy: I’m trying to answer the question, but there’s so…. Interjections. Hon. K. Conroy: I’m trying. I’m trying. Mr. Speaker: Members will come to order now. The minister will conclude shortly. Hon. K. Conroy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s really hard to conclude when they’re yelling at me. Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4009

So that the members opposite know, the socioeconomic analysis was done on the entire province, if every area was deferred. We are going to be doing an individual socio- economic analysis when areas are deferred, because that is what is critically important to communities, to workers and to the industry that we are going to ensure we save. [End of question period.] Petitions A. Olsen: Earlier in this session, last spring, I tabled a petition with respect to a road on Saltspring Island called Beddis. I now have another petition with 290 signatures regarding that same road.

Reports from Committees FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES COMMITTEE J. Routledge: I have the honour to present the second report of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services for the second session of the 42nd parliament, titled Report on the Budget 2022 Consultation. I move that the report be taken as read and received. Motion approved. J. Routledge: Mr. Speaker, I ask leave of the House to move a motion to adopt the report. Leave granted. J. Routledge: In moving adoption of the report, I would like to make some brief comments.

The annual budget consultation is an important exercise of democracy that allows British Columbians to share their views, ideas and priorities for the upcoming provincial budget. From June 30 to September 30, British Columbi- ans provided thoughtful, informative and passionate input on a range of issues, including health, education, economic development and more. We heard 347 presentations, the most in the history of the consultation, and received 710 written submissions and 1,417 responses to the survey.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to express our sincere appreciation to everyone who took the time to par- ticipate. Y our input directly informed the committee’s 143 recommendations for the 2022 provincial budget. In making these recommendations, the committee highlights climate change and emergency preparedness as areas that require urgent and immediate action. It was made clear to the committee that the impacts of climate change are being felt across the province.

With increas- ingly extreme weather events, such as the heat dome and the Lytton fire, the next climate-related disaster could hap- pen tomorrow or today. British Columbia needs to take every action to mitigate and prepare for its impact. [2:40 p.m.] Committee members also highlight the need to address housing affordability and supply. Many British Columbi- ans stressed that housing is at a crisis point and affecting health and the economy. Addressing this issue will require a multi-pronged approach. We are in a time of unique challenges. But with these challenges come opportunities.

We heard stories across the province of people working together, investing their time and energy to make their communities better. The com- mittee is of the view that support of these local efforts and investment in proactive planning and prevention across sectors is both a prudent economic decision and an important step forward in improving quality of life for British Columbians.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all com- mittee members, including the member for Surrey-Fleet- wood, who stepped in during an emergency on a tempor- ary basis, and members of the committee on both sides of the aisle who stepped in, in the moment, to make that emergency from being even worse. I would especially like to thank the Deputy Chair, the member for Kelowna West, for their support and work on this consultation and for their thoughtful contributions and discussions during deliberations.

This consultation covered a wide range of important topics, and this committee worked tirelessly to review, engage with and discuss each of these issues with the grav- ity they deserved. As members of this House are likely aware, there is a considerable amount of work behind the scenes to conduct a consultation of this scope. On behalf of the committee, I would like to acknowledge and extend our appreciation to the Legislative Assembly staff for their work on this consultation.

From the Parliamentary Committees Office, thank you to Jennifer Arril, Mary Newell, Karan Riarh, Katey Stickle, Jesse Gordon, Jenny Byford and Jonathon Hamilton. From IT, thank you to Darren Parfitt. From Hansard Services, thank you to Mike Baer, Amanda Heffelfinger, Simon DeLaat, Dwight Schmidt, Billy Y oung and the entire Hansard broadcast- ing, transcribing and publishing teams. B. Stewart: I just want to echo the remarks of the mem- ber for Burnaby North, who acknowledged so many of the people that were a part of this. The staggering numbers of presentations. The challenges with COVID.

We’ve reintroduced in-person meetings. I think we all agreed, as a committee, that that would set a new stand- ard — that we were out there vaccinated and made cer- taibn that people were heard. The voices that we heard represent the diversity of our province, and we worked hard to ensure that the majority of those voices were included in this report. 4010 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

There’s one moment of disappointment. A last-second decision to amend the recommendations that had already been approved. The strength of the report comes from hearing from as many people as possible, and the attempts to reduce those voices are unhelpful and regrettable. Overall, the report reflects the hopefulness of British Columbians, and it’s been a pleasure to be a part of this engagement process working with the committee mem- bers on both sides of the House, the Clerk’s office, all the staff at Hansard. I just want to thank everybody for their participation. Mr.

Speaker: Members, the question is the adoption of the report. Motion approved. Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth: I call Committee of the Whole, Bill 24, Environmental Management Amendment Act, 2021. Committee of the Whole House BILL 24 — ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT AMENDMENT ACT, 2021 The House in Committee of the Whole on Bill 24; S. Chandra Herbert in the chair. The committee met at 2:45 p.m. The Chair: All right, Members. I’m going to just put us into a short recess to prepare for the next bill, committee stage. The committee recessed from 2:45 p.m. to 2:49 p.m. [S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.] On clause 1.

The Chair: All right, Members. We are here for com- mittee stage of Bill 24, the Environmental Management Amendment Act, 2021. Did the minister want to open with a statement? Or we’ll dive right in. [2:50 p.m.] Hon. G. Heyman: I look forward to questions from members. I know there has been some speculation in the public about whether important issues like accessibility or health issues will be addressed in the consultations that will accompany the development of regulations. I will wel- come the opportunity to offer clarity on those questions. P . Milobar:Thank you to the minister.

Certainly, quite a few questions around

section 1, trying to get a good sense of the scope and what is intended by the definition around “single-use product. ” I think every- one agrees, and we’ve seen with polling, that we want to see as much reduction of plastic as possible within our lived environment and, by extension, our natural environment as it turns into waste. But certainly, there are good inten- tions, and then there is the practicality of enforcement or actual day-to-day usage and things happening within our daily lives. I guess if the minister could just provide a broad over- view of the intent.

Under the definition of “single-use product, ” what types of products are intended to be cap- tured by the definition that we see in the bill? Hon. G. Heyman: Thank you to the member for the question. Currently there is no definition of “single-use product, ” so we wanted to provide that definition. The member’s question is a good one. Including the definition of “single- use product” will allow the ministry to regulate and restrict products that have both a single use or a short- term use, which is more than one, but, really, relatively short-term, very short-term. Let me give some examples.

A Tupperware container may be a short-term single use. Disposable razors are, I think, a good example. Moving boxes would be a good example. P . Milobar:Thank you. Can the minister confirm, then, that the intent is truly to restrict the single-use products, so things like disposable razors and Tupperware that were just mentioned could quite easily fall under the regulation, moving forward, once this bill is passed? Hon. G. Heyman: The answer to the member is yes, subject to the consultation that we will do and the eco- nomic analysis, as well as the environmental analysis that we will do.

The intention is to restrict. [2:55 p.m.] There are some items, of course, that were put forward for bans by local governments, which I have already approved as minister. I think it’s pretty fair to assume that we would include those, given they’ve already been approved. Plastic bags are one of them, polystyrene foam containers are another, and straws, by request — straws being allowed by request, not automatically handed out. P . Milobar: One of the recurring themes we’ve seen with legislation, certainly, throughout this session….

Some of the bills are still open and being gone through at committee stage but other bills as well…. We have a bill in front of us with a concept, and then everything is left to regulation after the fact, without a clear understanding of what the regulations’ boundaries would be. We have been hearing concerns from people wanting to Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4011

know, under these

definitions, if things like…. Y ou go to a Canucks game, and you get your drink and go back to your seat. Y ou’re not allowed to have glass in a Canucks build- ing. Y ou’re not allowed to have a reusable container that you bring in from the street. Will products such as that be subject to regulation? Or is there somewhere that I’ve missed in this act where they would be excluded? Hon. G. Heyman: Thank you to the member. That’s, actually, a very good example, and I’m sure it’s on the mind of every hockey fan or football fan.

We will consider, through the process of consultation, exemptions for exactly that kind of example offered by the member. Part of it will also be considering if we can find or if the marketplace provides viable alternatives that reduce the use of plastic that can be used in places like games to reduce waste and eliminate single-use containers. P . Milobar: Again, the questions are maybe sounding flippant at times. I assure the minister they are not meant to be.

But again, people do have a lot of serious questions around this type of a proposal, especially because everything is being left to after-the-fact regulation. Some other examples we’ve heard of. Is there anything in this that would prevent the sale…? Or is this intended to…? Let me rephrase that. Under regulation, would this legislation enable the minister to ban things like the sale of garbage bags that people use at home, and things of that nature, that you might buy in a large box, 100 at a time, where you have the actual product inside the box that is most certainly single use? I think of garbage bags.

I’m not aware of many people that would re-use their doggy bag when they take their dog for a walk, but certainly, those types of products are in high demand, especially in urban- ized areas where sidewalks and such come into play when you take your pets out for a walk. Is there anything in this act? This act seems to be struc- tured in such a way that would make it possible, through regulation, to ban those types of products. Is that correct? Hon. G.

Heyman: I want to assure the member that I don’t find the questions flippant at all, because they prob- ably represent questions that many people in British Col- umbia have. It’s great to be able to provide an answer. [3:00 p.m.] Our focus would be, certainly, on instances where retail- ers are providing single-use products that actually have viable alternatives to replace them. Theoretically, the act could allow that, but we would not be seeking to ban something for which there is no viable alternative — for instance, a garbage bag or a doggy bag that people are using.

We may, however — and hopefully, the market will work with us on that — encourage the development of viable alternatives, which may be truly biodegradable, that could, ultimately, replace some of these products. Of course, as the member knows, a large focus of our time is spent on encouraging people to reduce waste over- all, therefore requiring less garbage bags — although there’s not much we can do about dogs — and contributing to a true circular economy by reducing what people use.

This is where the single-use plastic amendment comes in and, ultimately, the regulations — recycling and ensuring that we have adequate extended producer responsibility coverage for a broad range of items in British Columbia. P . Milobar: I’m not sure if my question around pack- aging, which I have, is for this or for later on, on clause 2 or on 11. Overall, when it comes to packaging, could the minister clarify…? When it talks about packaging of products and when you think of things like, say, bottled water…. I’m assuming that bottled water may fall under single-use plastic as well.

It typically comes with some form of plastic wrapping around it to make sure you’re not shipping 24 bottles at a time that are rolling all over the place. Is that the type of packaging — the shrink-wrap that goes around a pallet when it’s getting shipped from one store to another and off the containers to the store — that is referenced in this bill as well? Hon. G. Heyman: First of all, I just want to assure the member and the public that we’re not considering banning plastic water bottles, although we would certainly encour- age people to find and use reusable ones.

The answer with respect to shrink-wrapping, for example, that holds bundles of things together for pack- aging…. Y es, we could ban that. We would ban it if we found that there were viable alternatives available that reduced the necessity to use that kind of plastic. P . Milobar:Could the minister, then, clarify…? Bottled water — obviously not. Ultimately, it’s the bottle and not the product that people worry about the most. Is the minister, then, saying that any type of plastic bottle that one would associate with, say, bottled water but that, obviously, holds juice and other beverages in it…?

Those are not contemplated with this legislation or this regulation? Hon. G. Heyman: No. I can confirm that we are not considering banning those kinds of plastic containers. They’re covered under our bottle deposit and recycling program, which encourages people not to toss them in the gutter or in the garbage but to ensure they’re included in the recycling program and repurposed or reprocessed following that. [3:05 p.m.] I. Paton: Based on the massive use of agricultural 4012 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

plastics throughout the world…. It has become one of the biggest users of plastic. In the United Kingdom a few years ago, a statistic showed 45,000 tonnes of plastic was used for an agricultural purpose in the United Kingdom in one year. In British Columbia, we have several types of heavy plastic that are used in all aspects of agriculture, including baler twine, netting that goes around the round bales that are produced to hold them together, the white plastic and green plastic that goes around the silage bales, which look like marshmallows in the field.

It would be devastating to the agriculture industry in B.C. to somehow have those removed or considered as a single-use plastic. To the minister: could you comment on different vari- eties of agricultural plastics that are used? Will they be, under regulation, banned? Hon. G. Heyman: Thank you to the member for the question. It’s an excellent question. Agricultural plastic and agricultural plastic waste are, of course, a concern to the agriculture industry, to farmers as well as to the people of B.C. The way that we are addressing agricultural plastic waste is through the extended producer responsibility system.

Our proposal and consultations that are currently going out now with respect to how we update that plan for insti- tutional, commercial and industrial sectors…. That’s where we will be likely to address the handling of plastic waste and how we ensure that we bring it back in a way that handles it properly through the recycling system. The focus on single-use plastics through regulation, which will be enabled by this bill, is in response to the consultations and what we heard from the public about single-use plastics.

While there’s concern about agricultur- al plastic use, it wasn’t something that came up in this con- sultation. It has come up in consultation generally on the broader extended producer responsibility system. That’s what we’re going to bring in. It will take some time to bring it in because we have to ensure that there’s facility and capacity to handle those plastics and that it’s cost effective for everyone. But that is the route we will take on agricultural plastics. I. Paton:I’ d like to, further, just give a definition of some of the many, many uses of plastic.

It would be devastating to agriculture in B.C. and throughout Canada if they were to be banned. As I’ve said before, polyethylene baler twine for baling hay, of course. Bale netting that goes around the round bales. Massive tarps that go on top of bunker silos for corn silage and grass silage. The white plastic that goes around round bales. [3:10 p.m.] Plastic that goes over seedlings. We see, in B.C., rows upon rows of the plastic that goes down over top of seed- lings, which keeps the weeds down and creates a bit of a greenhouse effect for the seedlings that are growing. Fertilizer bags. Pesticide containers.

Greenhouse cov- erings. The plastic that goes over the greenhouses hoop houses. PVC pipe for irrigation purposes. Greenhouse packaging that the peppers, tomatoes and cucumbers go in is a vital part of our greenhouse industry and food produc- tion. Seed bags and, of course, like I said, fertilizer bags. To the minister, having such an impact on agriculture in B.C. and having a devastating impact if it were to be banned, when it comes to consultation, probably the num- ber one consulting group in British Columbia to stay in contact with would be the B.C.

Agriculture Council, which was just here a week ago or two weeks ago for B.C. Agri- culture Day…. My question to the minister. Have you consulted (

a) with the B.C. Agriculture Council and (

b) with the Minis- ter of Agriculture? Hon. G. Heyman: I want to repeat and reassure the member that we don’t propose to ban things for which there are no alternatives. I want to also reiterate that our focus on the real issue of agricultural plastic waste is through our extended producer responsibility

section of our plastics action plan, not through this bill. We are consulting with the B.C. agricultural association on how we deal with agricultural plastics through, ulti- mately, changes to extended producer responsibility and recycling. I have, in fact, consulted with the Minister of Agriculture on a number of occasions, both with respect to this bill and addressing agricultural plastics in general, and she, of course, is a strong advocate for the continued viab- ility of our important agriculture sector which, of course, is what we rely on for food security.

Our focus with respect to agricultural plastics where there may not be alternatives is to not ban plastic. It is to increase the percent of content of recycled plastic in the plastic products. So when we attempt to deal with it through extended producer responsibility, ensuring that people have a real incentive to collect and recycle, we have an industry in British Columbia, unlike other jurisdic- tions, where we have plastics remanufacturing. I hope to see even more plastics remanufacturing plants than those that currently exist in British Columbia.

Part of the StrongerBC recovery program was an invitation to different entrepreneurs and companies to make propos- als about different ways that they could recycle plastic and use plastic so that it can be used again and reduce the use of virgin plastic. We had a broad range of thoughtful and viable proposals.

That is how we propose to deal with the agricultural sector — not through bans but by extended producer responsibility and ensuring that we up the content of recycled plastic and plastic products in B.C. for the agri- cultural industry, as well as elsewhere, and that we do that with manufactured-in-B.C. recycled plastics. Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4013

[3:15 p.m.] I. Paton: If you’ll indulge me, since I have an oppor- tunity to ask a few questions to the minister on maybe a slightly different topic, the massive amount of…. I would say British Columbia might be a third of the U.K. in tonnes of plastic used in a year for agricultural pur- poses. In the Fraser Valley and on my own farm, I was one of the first persons to import equipment from Germany that actually wrapped these round bales in white plastic. They looked like marshmallows in the field. I’m getting comments and information from farmers and ranchers all over B.C. about: what do we do with our plastic?

In the Fraser Valley, we do have opportunities to take this plastic to some recycling facilities. But if you live in Fort St. John or in Hudson’s Hope or in the Koo- tenays or Vanderhoof…. They’re absolutely out of ideas on what to do. We really don’t want to burn this plastic. We really don’t want to dig a hole with the excavator and put it in the ground. I’m asking, to the minister: what facilities do you have in place in northern B.C. and eastern B.C. for farmers to be able to recycle their plastic? Hon. G.

Heyman: I’ll start by saying that probably the single topic that engenders the most meetings and com- ments for me at the Union of B.C. Municipalities is recyc- ling, in general and particularly from Interior and north- ern communities which don’t have the benefit of the same economies of scale that have led to facilities existing of the kind the member referenced for agricultural plastic in more populated areas.

Among the demands that local government make is that we focus on institutional, commercial and industrial recycling and including that in extended producer responsibility in our recycling program, which is exactly what we are proposing to do. We’re currently working with the recycling industry, with local governments, with industry, to bring that online, but we can’t collect it until the facilities exist to handle it and process it. Otherwise, we’re simply going to be collecting it, and it could well end up in landfills or burnt or whatever. So that is not our long-term plan.

We’re working as quickly as we can, but the member asked what facilities are in place in the north, for instance, to handle them, and the answer is: none yet. We’re working on it. The Chair: The member for Kamloops–South Thomp- son. North Thompson. Both beautiful places. P . Milobar: We get mistaken as one and the same — often called twins. The Chair: Definitely. I’ve got a twin in Kamloops. P . Milobar:Actually, you do. That’s true. So there you go. Thanks to the minister for that. I think where some of the apprehension is starting to come with the bill is that in

section 1 here, in clause 1, we’re talking about adding in a definition to the act around what a single-use product is, and every

interpretation of that, moving forward, is left to regulation, an unknown regulation. By virtue of that, almost every product out there could almost meet the definition that the minister has clarified for us. When even Tupperware is being invoked as a short-term product, well, I can tell you…. Well, at least the Tupperware lids in my house last a long time. I don’t know what happens to the rest of the Tupperware, but if you’re like my house, you’ve got a lot of lids and not a lot of containers. The point being, I think, is that there is not enough detail in what is being excluded at this point.

So as we’ve heard about the concerns on the agricultural side of the equation, we’re also hearing the same within the health care realm and things around PPE, especially in light of what’s going on with COVID and you think of all of the first-aid attendants and on-site construction sites with first aid kits and everything else. [3:20 p.m.] Would “single-use product, ” under this definition…? Would that include things like plastics used in the pro- vision of health care, based on this definition?

Not what might happen in regulation, but based on how this defini- tion is worded — would health care plastics also fall under this single-use definition? Hon. G. Heyman: I want to reiterate for the member…. Well, first of all, let me say that the member knows, and members opposite who have served in government know, that it is not uncommon to leave certain details to regula- tion for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the ability to more easily keep them current and amend them and ensure that they meet the intent.

So that is why much of the detail will be developed in regulation, following real consultation with the public, with retailers, with manufac- turers about what’s possible. It’s not our intent to ban things where there is no altern- ative or where they’re necessary. It is clearly our hope that alternatives will be developed over time to reduce plastic waste where that’s possible. It’s also our intention, as I’ve stated, to increase extended producer responsibility, recyc- ling of plastic and inclusion of more recycled content in our plastic products, rather than virgin plastics.

This is an excellent question by the member with respect to health care. It gives me the opportunity to make absolutely clear…. I want to make absolutely clear that it is not the intent under this bill to — and we will not — ban the use of plastics, single-use or otherwise, where they are necessary for health care, whether it’s personal protective equipment or other health care uses. 4014 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

Nor would we ban the use of single-use plastics — for instance, plastic straws — where they are necessary for accessibility issues for people with any kind of disability where that single-use plastic is the only alternative for them. We will not do that. In fact, in all of the bans that were submitted by local government for my approval as minister, before we made it possible for them to develop them on their own, it was made absolutely clear that the bans had to provide provi- sion for health care uses and accessibility uses.

And again, when we issued the order that allowed municipalities to go ahead without my approval, the order included issues of health care and accessibility as issues that had to be addressed as exemptions to single-use plastic bans. I hope that is absolutely crystal clear for the member or anyone else who shares that concern. P . Milobar:I take the minister, certainly, at his word on that. I guess it’s sometimes a function of…. When we each have jobs or titles, so to speak, under our governmental elected–type work, you start to feel like: “Okay.

What I say today is how it shall be forevermore. ” Certainly, there were mayors in my office in Kamloops before me, and when last I checked, there’s one in there after me. There were Environment ministers before this minister and, you know, at the whim of the Premier, there’s a new Environment Minister. That’s just the system that we work under.

So what one minister’s intent might be is not necessarily the actions of another minister, moving for- ward. [3:25 p.m.] When things are left wide open, under legislation, to be decided by regulation after the fact, and there are no exemptions in here, it does open the door for future gov- ernments, future ministers, anybody in a position of power to change that. Could the minister please just clarify, then…? I was just simply checking whether or not medical plastics would fit under the definition, as it’s written right now, of single-use product, under this legislation, the way it is written. Hon. G.

Heyman: First of all, I appreciate the member’s comment and the concern that he is raising. I also know that

interpretation of

an act is guided by statements that are made by the minister in introducing the act and in answering questions at committee stage, which is why I tried to give such a clear answer to the question in my pre- vious response. I don’t think I can make that more clear, but I want to assure the member that we would not consider medical use plastics that are necessary and for which there is no alternative to be covered by the definition in this act. I think we’ve demonstrated that in the exemptions that we insisted on with respect to local government. P .

Milobar: Well, that sounded like a fairly succinct answer as to how an exemption could have been worded when this bill was brought forward to make amendments to the existing act. Within the discussion and within the development of clause 1, specifically, but these whole four clauses that are in front of us amending the act, why were there not any exemptions just highlighted right off the very front end instead of leaving everything wide open for

interpretation of a regulation process as opposed to flat out making sure that…? As the minister just laid out, a fairly clearly defined wording around medical plastics could have easily been inserted in as an exemption.

There could have been an exemption, with a reference made to agricultural plastics in terms of how this act directly pertains to them, and leav- ing other waste acts to deal with agricultural plastic. [3:30 p.m.] Why were there no actual exemptions highlighted and defined in this bill that would have actually very clearly told everybody — especially on medical plastics — that this is a no-go zone, full stop, and that it’s not being left to regulation now or in the future? [3:35 p.m.] [N. Letnick in the chair.] Hon. G.

Heyman: I think I addressed the issue of medical-use plastics and the accessibility of [inaudible recording]. The member asked about agricultural packaging and products and why we didn’t specifically include an exemp- tion. Actually, I would say that almost exclusively, that kind of packaging of agricultural materials or commodit- ies is already covered by the act, which was brought in, in 2003, by the previous government. The existing provision says: “‘packaging’ means a mater- ial, substance or object that is (

a) used to protect, contain or transport a commodity or product, or (

b) attached to a commodity or product or its container for the purpose of marketing or communicating information about the com- modity or product. ” That is currently the language in the act. The act con- tains no specific exemption with respect to agricultural products, but as the member knows, those things have not been banned where there is no suitable alternative. P . Milobar:Y es. Thank you for that on the agricultural side. Again, there are still questions around packaging, as we canvassed earlier, in terms of what would qualify or not. It comes down to some of that

interpretation. I guess the bigger concern I have was actually the ques- tion around the discussions as this bill was being crafted, as it was being brought forward, as it was looking at amending the act, why was there not…? What discussions led to there not being a very clear exemption for medical- grade, medical-use plastics? Monday, November 15, 2021 British Columbia Debates 4015

[3:40 p.m.] If there is absolutely no intention through regulation moving forward, now or infinity, to ban those, why was there not, just clearly articulated, an exemption in this bill, which is already updating the act? It would seem to be a very simple way to update the act and put people’s minds at ease. We’re in the height of a global pandemic where PPE is in short supply, and people are already, rightfully, nervous around those supplies and other medical provisions. This seems to be a very easy way to address that. What discussions led up to deciding?

Was there even any consideration of bringing in an exception, and why was it not acted upon, if there were those discussions? Hon. G. Heyman: It is our intention to develop regula- tions through consultation about which items to specific- ally name. With respect to the exemptions for accessibility or health purposes, again, I’ve made very clear statements in this House that can and will be used to interpret the act.

With respect to consultation, we consulted with the Pro- vincial Health Services Authority, with the provincial health officer, with the Disability Alliance B.C. and, within government, with the Ministry of Health and the accessib- ility secretariat. P . Milobar: Well, I guess we’ll try to FOI to see what the decision-making process was with that. I’m not hold- ing my breath on that either. I guess the concern, though, is…. I get that the minister is saying this will all come into effect under regulation, but in fact, the act commences on royal assent, which will happen next Thursday, at the latest.

Then it’s up to people, the citizenry, to interpret the act and the lack of regulation attached to it. [3:45 p.m.] I guess the question to the minister is, then: if this comes into effect on royal assent, what is the timeline to actually have the consultation done and actual regulations known, given that there has been no preliminary look at proposed regulations attached to this bill, as seems to be the practice with this government lately with bills? It’s an unknown regulatory scheme being proposed. Pass the legislation, and we’ll tell you after the fact how it is going to operate or not.

What is the actual timeline for the regulation? I don’t see anything in this bill that spells out how quickly it has to be developed or not. Hon. G. Heyman: As the member knows, the bill…. Anyone reading the bill will know that it is an enabling provision, and nothing is banned until there is a regulation banning it. It is our intention to…. First of all, I’ll back up a minute. We have been having discussions with the industry. We’ve heard lots from the public in previous consultations and discussion papers around generally what people are looking for, what con- cerns they want addressed.

We’ve heard from industry and retailers. In the spring of 2022, sometime around February or March, we’ll begin a 60-day consultation on an intentions paper, which is about 33 percent longer than our normal consultation period on an intentions paper. Then follow- ing that, based on the feedback, we will begin drafting reg- ulations, which we intend to bring in by spring 2023. P . Milobar:Three months from now there will be some consultation. It will be about a two-month consultation. Does that include…? Is there any intention to include Indigenous communities in that consultation?

I didn’t hear them mentioned in any of the consultations being pro- posed at this point. [3:50 p.m.] Hon. G. Heyman: We have, in fact, been consulting with Indigenous peoples. We provide funding for an Indi- genous zero waste technical advisory committee that serves as a vehicle for hearing Indigenous views and con- cerns. That has been ongoing and will continue as part of the upcoming consultation. P . Milobar:Just to be clear. Was that group, then, con- sulted with the development of this bill as it stands today? Hon. G.

Heyman: I think it’s been, certainly, public knowledge that we intended to bring in bans on single-use plastics. I’ve been speaking about that publicly for over a year, that it would happen via a combination of legislation and/or regulations. The consultations that we’ve had with the Indigenous zero waste technical advisory committee have actually been on what regulations would look like, further to the enabling legislation that led to us bringing them in. P . Milobar: On the development of this Bill 24, were any groups consulted with? If so, who?

Were any of those groups required to sign non-disclosure agreements? Hon. G. Heyman: A letter was sent to all treaty and non-treaty nations, advising them that government was intending to bring in an amendment to the Environmental Management Act to address single-use plastics. [3:55 p.m.] We, of course, went on with the zero waste technical advisory committee to hear their input on what kinds of things they would like to see, ultimately, in the regulatory framework. That work is ongoing. With respect to the letters to all the nations, we invited a response.

We received a response from many nations and considered those responses as we brought the legislation to development and forward. 4016 British Columbia Debates Monday, November 15, 2021

P . Milobar:I guess I’ll be a little more specific with my question. It wasn’t really just around Indigenous consulta- tion but in general. So any groups, any and all groups. Were people or groups consulted on the development of Bill 24? If so, who were they, and were they required to sign non-disclosure agreements? Hon. G. Heyman: First of all, no non-disclosure agree- ments were required.

Every treaty and non-treaty nation received a letter providing formal notification of pending amendments to provincial legislation regarding the Envir- onmental Management Act to provide regulation-making authority to ban the sale or use of specific types of products, etc., and then describing the intended effects of the proposed amendment to EMA as follows. If I may…. The Chair: Go ahead, Minister. Hon. G. Heyman: If I may, Chair, we’ d be happy to make a copy of one of the letters available to the mem- ber. P . Milobar:Thank you, no. That’s all right. Again….

I guess I’m a stickler, but I’ve been around the mulberry bush a few times with the minister on the fine points of how answers and questions get worded, in estim- ates and otherwise, over the years. There was no requirement to sign an NDA. But were NDAs requested? In other words, were they requested, and then just quietly, if they didn’t happen to sign, they were still consulted or listened to, but the preference of the ministry would have been that non-disclosures be signed off on for consultation to happen?

Of course, I ask that because we’re finding out, from bill after bill, that this has started to be fairly prevalent. So we’re just trying to find out if this particular bill was subject to the same ask of par- ticipants to provide input or not. Hon. G. Heyman: We did not request that the nations sign an NDA with regard to the letter, which described, in more than general terms — quite some specificity — about what our inte

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20211115pm-Hansard-n128
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20211115pm Hansard n128
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	995aab12e59f3c2705fcadf41113d46572bdcf0c

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