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April 6, 2006

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2006-Apr-06 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 6 April 2006 Jeudi 6 avril 2006

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

HEART DEFIBRILLATOR USE

CIVIL LIABILITY ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

CIVILE DÉCOULANT DE L'USAGE

DE DÉFIBRILLATEURS CARDIAQUES

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

HEART DEFIBRILLATOR USE

CIVIL LIABILITY ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

CIVILE DÉCOULANT DE L'USAGE

DE DÉFIBRILLATEURS CARDIAQUES

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

TARTAN DAY

EVENTS IN MISSISSAUGA

HOCKEY

MAKING THE GRADE

JANE STREET AND HIGHWAY 7

BORDER SECURITY

LA FRANCOPHONIE

EASTERN ONTARIO

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (NUTRITION STANDARDS IN SCHOOLS), 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (NORMES ALIMENTAIRES DANS LES ÉCOLES)

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT), 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (PARTICIPATION COMMUNAUTAIRE)

EMPLOYMENT STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT (INFORMING STUDENTS OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT RIGHTS), 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI A TRAIT À L'EMPLOI (FOURNITURE DE RENSEIGNEMENTS AUX ÉTUDIANTS SUR LEURS DROITS

EN MATIÈRE D'EMPLOI)

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (SCHOOL WASTE REDUCTION), 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (RÉDUCTION DES DÉCHETS DANS LES ÉCOLES)

CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR

LES SERVICES À L'ENFANCE ET

À LA FAMILLE

MOTIONS

REFERRAL OF BILL 190

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

FAMILY HEALTH TEAMS

MEMBER'S BIRTHDAY

VISITOR

ORAL QUESTIONS

SENTENCING

HEALTH PREMIUMS

NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT SUPPLEMENT

FAMILY HEALTH TEAMS

DUFFERIN-PEEL CATHOLIC DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD

RENT BANK PROGRAM

DUFFERIN-PEEL CATHOLIC DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD

LONG-TERM CARE

DEFIBRILLATION EQUIPMENT

FAMILY VIOLENCE

CHILD ADVOCATE

LOCAL HEALTH INTEGRATION NETWORKS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PETITIONS

LONG-TERM CARE

COMMUNITY MEDIATION

LONG-TERM CARE

BORDER SECURITY

LONG-TERM CARE

BORDER SECURITY

LONG-TERM CARE

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI A TRAIT À LA GESTION

DES SITUATIONS D'URGENCE

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT

STATUTE LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2006

(CONTINUED) /

LOI DE 2006 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI A TRAIT À LA GESTION

DES SITUATIONS D'URGENCE

(SUITE)

The House met at 1000.

Prayers.

PRIVATE MEMBERS'

PUBLIC BUSINESS

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

Mr. Brownell moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 25,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of former premiers of Ontario / Projet de loi 25, Loi visant à conserver les lieux de sépulture des

anciens premiers ministres de l'Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Pursuant to the standing orders, the member has 10 minutes to make his presentation. I recognize the member

for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I rise in support of my private member's bill, a bill that I had visions of even before

getting into this House. I always felt that it was important to recognize not only the Prime Minister of Canada but the Premiers of our province.

Ce projet de loi reconnaîtra les lieux de repos de ceux qui ont dirigé cette province à travers son histoire.

Before I begin, allow me to welcome Mr. Robert Leverty, director of the Ontario Historical Society, and Ms. Marjorie Stuart, a volunteer from the Ontario

Genealogical Society, both of whom are in the members' gallery today. To you both, who have come out in support of this bill, and your members who have supported this bill, I welcome you. Both of

you have been strong supporters of this bill. And for that I thank them and their associations. You have been supporters of the recognition of all people buried in this province in all cemeteries,

recognizing their final resting places.

I would also like to thank the close to 60 communities across Ontario who have passed resolutions -- and I have the 60 resolutions with me here today -- in

support of Bill 25. I also have to thank Mr. Bill Upper, councillor from the township of South Stormont, for proposing the first such resolution some time ago. He and Councillor Barry Brownlee from

South Stormont moved and seconded that motion in South Stormont, and we see the support today from these 60 communities.

Above all, however, I must acknowledge and thank the Minister of Labour, the Honourable Steve Peters, for it was with his thought and ideas in previous sessions

that we had a similar bill proposed. So this bill has been his brainchild, but it was certainly something that I picked up as somebody working very, very hard back in my community to support the

preservation of history and heritage.

What all these men, women, associations and communities have done is support

an act to recognize the men, and eventually there will be women, to whom Ontario's

history was entrusted and by whom our future will be shaped.

While all of us here, as elected representatives of the people of Ontario, are entrusted with promoting and addressing the concerns of Ontarians and shaping the

policy that affects their lives, it is the Premier who must provide the vision and determine the direction the province will take.

The legacy of our Premiers must be experienced in every aspect of our lives. As an example, let me tell you about Sir James Pliny Whitney, after whom the Whitney

Block next door is named. Every time I walk through the Whitney Block I'm proud because Whitney represented the riding of Dundas county, which is now part of my riding of

Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. He was a noted orator, a skill he no doubt honed while a student at the Cornwall Grammar School, now called Cornwall Collegiate and Vocational School. I might add

that this school, at which our first Premier, John Sandfield Macdonald, was also a student, is the oldest public high school in Ontario and celebrating its bicentennial this year. I will return to

CCVS, the oldest public high school in Ontario, in a few moments.

John Pliny Whitney became the sixth Prime Minister of Ontario in 1905. Recalling his rural upbringing in the township of Williamsburg, he introduced extensive

legislation pertaining to agriculture, laying much of the framework that has shaped Ontario's agricultural industry to this day. His government also laid the basis for Ontario's industrial

development by creating the Ontario electric commission and passed the Workmen's Compensation Act.

This bill proposes to recognize the burial sites of our Premiers. With regard to James Pliny Whitney, his burial site is now under Lake St. Lawrence, because in

the 1950s -- from 1954 to 1958 -- we had a huge project down in my riding, building a power damn at Cornwall, flooding 40,000 square acres of land and covering his boyhood home. It was his boyhood

home that had to be destroyed by Ontario Hydro in order to create that hydro development.

Let us also consider Sir George Ross, who represented Middlesex West as Prime Minister of Ontario from 1899 to 1905. Sir Ross promoted the construction of a

province and those living there.

As much as the vision of our Premiers has affected us all as a province, these individuals are also a source of pride to their home communities.

I return to CCVS, formerly known as the Cornwall Grammar School, as important an educational institution as any in the province. As I mentioned, the first

Premier of Ontario, John Sandfield Macdonald, attended this school and, indeed, said of his experience there, "I owe all the spirit of independence, which I have maintained throughout my career, to

my learning in that school." Imagine the impact these words had on the students of the day. Imagine the pride they would feel in their institution and in themselves for being the continuation of

that learning. That legacy has never died. Just as I felt privileged to attend this school with such a prestigious history and heritage, so too does every student and educator who has passed

through those hallowed halls.

Each community that is the last resting place of a former Premier feels that same connection to history as I felt in my riding of

Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, where both John Sandfield Macdonald and James Pliny Whitney have their burial sites and memorials, and I continue to feel that. These communities draw pride from

that connection and understand the importance of recognizing the role and history those former Premiers played.

Just as the federal government acknowledges those who have steered this nation through the trials of the last century and a half, these men and their

contributions deserve to be recognized by the province. I would say that such recognition is long overdue.

The intent of this bill is to rectify the situation by marking our former Premiers' places in history. By placing a flag and erecting a plaque at these burial

sites, the Minister of Culture will do more than pay respect to those who have led us in the past. The minister will be reinforcing a symbol of pride for a community and a family. The minister will

also create a cultural landmark, one that will attract visitors from far and wide.

I hold in my hand a brochure from the national program for the gravesites of Canadian Prime Ministers. I can tell you that these gravesites receive many visits

yearly by Canadians looking to connect with their past, by researchers and historians and by visitors curious about individuals themselves. I have no doubt that once known and properly marked, the

gravesites of Ontario's former Premiers will receive similar attention.

Je vais visiter les tombes de chacun de ces anciens premiers ministres au courant des prochains mois, et j'encourage tous les membres d'en faire autant.

I would like to thank the members from Brant, Elgin-Middlesex-London, Guelph-Wellington, Haliburton-Victoria-Brock and Simcoe North for agreeing to go with me to

visit the resting places of some of these gentlemen. Hopefully, the other members with former Premiers buried in their ridings will be able to visit these gravesites with me as well.

These sites are spread throughout Ontario, from here in Toronto to my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, to Simcoe North. Our former Premiers represent

the geographic diversity of the province. They are also from various political stripes, an indication of the ideological diversity of this province. This diversity is an indication of how strong

the political tradition is in this province, a fact we will commemorate by recognizing the gravesites of these Premiers.

John Sandfield Macdonald, of my riding, was a Reform member, and I celebrate him. Gordon Daniel Conant was a Liberal, and our colleague the member from Oshawa

celebrates him. It was just a week and a half ago that I had an opportunity of visiting in the gallery with the son of Gordon Daniel Conant.

As I mentioned earlier, members from both the government and the official opposition will be joining me in visiting memorials to the former Premiers buried in

their ridings. I believe this participation speaks to the non-partisan nature of this bill as well as the character of Ontarians.

In the end, the former Premiers of Ontario were ordinary people, with families, friends and personal interests no different in those respects from any Ontarians.

What set them apart were their vision, their determination and their leadership. This is the leadership that we celebrate with this bill, which I am very happy to propose and have a chance to speak

to in second reading debate here this morning.

The Acting Speaker: Further debate?

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): It's my pleasure to add some comments today on Bill 25,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of former

premiers of Ontario, that is being put forward by the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

Before I start, I would like to note that today, April 6, is Tartan Day. I'm wearing a Stewart tartan. My father, a former Premier, was well known for wearing a

full-blown jacket in the Stewart tartan. A couple years ago I actually wore his jacket in here on Tartan Day, but I know that the member from Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, who had a lot to do with making

Tartan Day, will probably wear a nice tartan today. Today is the first time I've seen the Speaker, Mr. Arnott, actually wearing a kilt, a very nice kilt too, I might add.

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): Nice knees.

Mr. Miller: I'm not going to comment on the Speaker's knees, as the member opposite has asked me to.

I just have a few minutes today to speak to Bill 25, so I think I should get to that. I certainly support Bill 25, which "requires the Minister of Culture to

mark gravesites of former premiers of Ontario and permits the minister to make agreements for the care and preservation of such gravesites. In marking the gravesites, the minister shall comply with

the bylaws of the cemetery" -- I think that's important -- "where the gravesite is located and shall respect the wishes of the family of the deceased Premier."

There are some 18 of these gravesites around the province. Some of them are not cared for and some have been forgotten about. I think each of those 18 Premiers

in his own unique way has contributed a great deal to the history of this province. I think it is important for us to note those gravesites and to promote our history.

I do support this. I have a personal interest, of course, because my father was Premier of this province for a short time back in 1985. It was something he was

very proud of. Next to his family, it was the thing he was most proud of in terms of the accomplishments in his life. I know he was extremely proud of that and I'm sure he would support this

initiative, and I would be very pleased to support it.

In the bill, it notes that the power of the Minister of Culture, in this case, would allow them "by means of flags of Ontario and of Canada, plaques, signs and

other suitable markings" to "mark the gravesites of former Premiers...." As the member mentioned, there is a similar program in effect for Prime Ministers.

I look forward to this bill passing. I know that the member from Haliburton wants to speak to it, so I'll let her take over in just a few minutes. I also look

forward to welcoming the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh into Gravenhurst and Muskoka, where we will visit my father's, the former Premier's, gravesite.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I read the schedule, and I suppose it's a pretty impressive list of white male Anglos and Anglo types. I have

no qualms about anybody's grave being marked appropriately and preserved with dignity. I've got no qualms about graves of Premiers being especially acknowledged so that people who are students of

the history of this province can visit them and help understand -- it's like any time you travel: Whether the historic sites you visit are from the 20th century or whether they're from the 1st

century, to be able to touch those things, to be able to be in the presence of those things, starts to make the connect.

Having said that, I want to talk about the graves of decades, generations, indeed centuries of workers in this province, like the graves -- some of them in

disrepair to the state where they're unrecognizable -- of the canal workers down in Welland with names that at the time were oh so foreign but today are commonplace. At the time, they were foreign

enough to be exotic and frightening, those southern European names and eastern European names, the forgotten heroes of this province and this country, working women and men who gave their lives

building our canals, working in our factories, digging and working in our mines and dying in those mines.

I want to pay tribute, during the course of talking about how we remember, commemorate and recognize the people who have passed, to the people who have been

victims of workplace violence, whose bodies were either poisoned or simply broken to the point where they could no longer live.

I appreciate the intent of the author of this bill. But I want to tell him that, especially in provincial politics, once you're gone, you're gone. The provincial

political experience is so Warholian. Quite frankly, it's equally Warholian for the vast majority of federal members of Parliament. That's just the way it is. We 103 of us tend to think we're oh so

important. In some respects, we are a relatively exclusive club: Only 103 Ontarians get to sit here at any given point in time. But at the end of the day, we're not the most important people, are

we? The most important people are the real Ontarians out there, the ones working hard, the ones who get up at 5 a.m. every morning whether they want to or not, whether it's cold and blizzardy

outside, whether they've been up all night with a sick kid; the ones who get up at 5 in the morning and go out to that work site and work, not because they like their jobs, not because they get

public acclaim for doing their jobs, not because they get the occasional ego hit of being able to have their mother or their sister or one of their kids or even their spouse clip out a newspaper

clipping, but because that's what you've got to do to feed your kids, pay the mortgage and make the contribution that you've got to make, hoping that your kids have a better life than you did.

While I consider it laudable to want to acknowledge the leadership of Premiers in the province, I fear that in the course of focusing on this list of very white,

very male, very Anglo types -- and I've got nothing against white male Anglo types, but the fact and the reality is that in the course of doing so, I believe that we can, perhaps if only through

inadvertence, overlook the contribution of the people who weren't politically connected, the people who weren't rich, the people who weren't powerful, the people who didn't have the inside track in

a political party to win that party's leadership, and then to become, oh, the Premier of Ontario.

Gosh, if we're going to recognize the gravesites of these people, let's also then record some of the stuff that went on under the premiership of people like

Mitch Hepburn, who sent armed troops into Crowland to force sanitation workers on strike back into the sewer ditches. "Hepburn's hussars," they were called. If we're going to remember Mitch Hepburn

and his premiership, if we're going to mark his gravesite with special marking, let's remember what Mitch Hepburn did with his OPP to working women and men in the city of Welland and Crowland when

they tried to strike for a few cents an hour more wages when their kids were going hungry and literally barefoot. Where's the monument to those workers who were forced at gunpoint back into the

ditches that they were digging for sewers in Crowland?

I appreciate the member telling me that there's going to be a recorded vote. Notwithstanding that everybody's going to support the bill, what's going to happen

is somebody is going to make a phony "no" vote so a recorded vote can be forced. For the life of me, I don't know why. The bill is going to pass. Everybody supports the bill because it's innocuous.

It's the sort of thing that the Ministry of Culture should be doing in any event without the legislation. And yes, we have a new Minister of Culture, don't we, Mr. Marchese?

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Yes, we do.

Mr. Kormos: I'm sure that she will tackle this issue first and foremost as a priority.

Mr. Marchese: Gravitas.

Mr. Kormos: Yes. I don't know whether Mr. Smitherman considers her a person of gravitas or not.

I have no doubt. But do you want to know what? Notwithstanding the advanced notice of the author of this bill that there's going to be a recorded vote, which is

going to be arrived at artificially by somebody making a phony contra vote on the voice vote and then standing five to rise, and notwithstanding that should there be a recorded vote on Bill 71, a

bill with which I've had some significant involvement during its life under previous authors, I regret I'm going to be busy for this vote. I'm going to be reflecting on working women and men whose

gravesites are not only unmarked and unacknowledged but, far too often, simply paved over.

Mr. Khalil Ramal (London-Fanshawe): I guess I have the honour and privilege again to stand up and speak about this important subject matter. I

want to congratulate the member from Stormont−Dundas−Charlottenburgh for his dedication and hard work in bringing to this House, on many different times and many different occasions, an

important issue. Today we are discussing a very important issue, to preserve the graveyards of great Premiers who have served this great province for many different years.

The member from Niagara Centre was talking about injured workers. On this occasion, I'd like to inform you that I brought in a bill last week to install some

kind of memorial to commemorate the people who died at work. Hopefully, we'll get support from all the members of this House. I think it's important to remember every one in this great province,

the hard-working men and women who give their time, their lives, their abilities and skills to build and continue building this great province.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland): Great people.

Mr. Ramal: Great people.

I think it's very important to remember the people who give their talent, their intelligence and their time, and who work hard to enhance the ability of this

province on many different fronts -- economically, socially, in education and in health -- and give all their time to maintain our presence, not just on this side of this beautiful country but also

on the global stage.

The member from Niagara Centre was talking about Mitchell Hepburn. He talked about some incidents that happened in the past, but he forgot about the great job he

did. He forgot about his ability to put this province very ably on the economic stage. That Premier, who died in 1953 and was buried in St. Thomas, which is near to my riding, did a great job for

the great province of Ontario. I think he should be remembered for his great work and he should be remembered by all the people who come after -- to educate them about the great people who make a

difference in our economy, who make a difference in our social situations, who make a difference in our lives.

Also, we're not going to forget our great Premier John Robarts, who everyone in this province remembers for his dedication and hard work in maintaining the

ability of this province to continue to play a pivotal role in Canada and the whole world. John Robarts has been remembered on many different occasions and in many different places. Beside my house

on the campus of Western, they built a special institute they call Robarts Reasearch Institute to remember his dedication to science, education and research, because he strongly believed that the

only way that Ontario can succeed and go into the next century is by investing money in research and innovation. That's why the city of London and the University of Western Ontario remember his

job, remember his dedication and remember his investment in research and innovation and named one of the most important institutions in the city of London, the Robarts institute, after him, to tell

people about his dedication and his investment in this field.

I think it's important to us to remember those who give their abilities, who make a difference, who work hard to enhance every element of our lives. I'll give an

example when we're talking about Premiers. We talk about Premiers like our Premier Dalton McGuinty, who works very hard in every front: education, health care, infrastructure, social issues,

diversity, multiculturalism. He wants to make Ontario one of the greatest provinces in the whole nation, because he believes our province is the engine, the heart of this beautiful country.

Many Premiers came, many Premiers did their best regardless of their ideology or party affiliation. We don't care about that. We care about a person who gives

his heart, all his or her ability to do what is best for this nation. Sometimes we don't agree on different directions, we don't agree on different issues, we don't agree on their philosophies, but

there is no doubt in my mind that when they get elected to that job, they put life and families and all personal issues aside and give all to the public, all to the province of Ontario. I think for

that they should be remembered. After they die, it should be recognized. Why do we have to be different from the federal government, which recognizes all the Prime Ministers who served and died in

this country?

I believe strongly that the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh is doing a great job. He knows the value and importance of this issue, to keep their

memorials, their graves as cultural centres, as places people can visit. Students and people from different nations can come to visit those sites and learn about those great Premiers who did a

great job for our province.

I fully support this initiative and this bill. I want to ask all the people from different sides of the House to come forward and support this, because it's a

great thing to do. I'm saying it without any bias or party affiliation. It should be every one of those who served, and their Premiership should be recognized. It's very important to involve many

people and to encourage many people to recognize the great Premiers who serve us.

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I'm pleased to rise today to speak in support of Bill 25,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of

former premiers of Ontario, brought in by the member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. It would allow the Minister of Culture, "by means of flags of Ontario and of Canada, plaques, signs and

other suitable markings" to "mark the gravesites of former premiers of Ontario." Many Premiers have been mentioned, and all Premiers should be recognized, because they have all worked to improve

the quality of life for us in Ontario.

I am fortunate to boast the home and resting place in my riding of one of the most distinguished and accomplished Premiers, Leslie Frost, who was Premier of

Ontario from 1949 to 1961. He was one of the longest-serving and most popular Premiers of Ontario. I think he never held less than 72% of the seats in the Legislature, which has rarely been

equalled today. His achievements were the Ontario hospital insurance program, provision of equal pay for women, and vast expansion of hospitals, schools and highways. I know we have the Frost

campus of Fleming College in Lindsay named after him, and I'm hoping the Leslie M. Frost centre near Dorset will remain up and operational. It's in the government's hands now.

There's an excerpt from the book Old Man Ontario, which Leslie Frost was known as. It says, "Frost had always cultivated the image of unpretentious down to

earth, small-town lawyer, epitomized by the remark he was said to have made at a federal provincial conference: ` ... I look at this matter from the standpoint of the barber chair in Lindsay.'" I

have taken that advice and visit the barber shops and the hairdressing salons in Lindsay to get the pulse of Ontario.

He was a man who "was not a false image by any means. He lived comfortably but simply and without great wealth, his maximum salary as Premier being $16,000 in

addition to his stipend as an MPP. That his psyche was deeply rooted in the values, attitudes, and customs of non-urban central Ontario there could be no doubt."

He was a small-town lawyer, and perhaps more than any 20th century Premier, prepared Ontario for the urbanization and economic growth that exploded in the 1950s

and 1960s. "Over the period of [Frost's] premiership, hundreds of millions of dollars were poured into road building. The Macdonald-Cartier Freeway alone cost $400 million, and $220 million was

spent on the Ontario

section of the Trans-Canada Highway." I bring that to your attention because the government announced it was sprinkling $400 million across rural and northern Ontario for roads

and bridges, and we're not sure if it is actually going to be diverted to other areas. Using the inflation factor, that would be equivalent of what he spent --

Interjection.

Ms. Scott: It's not nasty, just a comparison -- it would be $2.75 billion today. So we just put that into context of what Leslie Frost did,

building new highways. Many people scoffed at him at that time, building "highways to nowhere," but today they are the pathway to Ontario's prosperous future that we all enjoy, and I think we

should recognize that.

When Premier Frost was buried, "It was a short, simple service with no eulogy, as he had requested. When it was over, the casket, draped in Ontario's

provincial flag on which Frost's medals lay upon a purple cushion, was carried to the hearse by members of the Queen's York Rangers...."

"Reaching the cemetery on the edge of town" -- of Lindsay -- "the hearse stopped near the freshly dug gravesite next to [his wife] Gertrude's. As a gusty

breeze rustled the leaves of the great, still surviving elms, in a brief burial service the mortal remains of the Laird of Lindsay were committed to the earth beside the Scugog River, in his own

corner of the old Ontario he had known and loved so well."

I welcome the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh when he does visit Lindsay later this month.

Mr. Marchese: I want to say that I will be supporting this bill introduced by the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh because I think

it's worthy of being supported. There are some who would say that perhaps the member should be talking about many other important issues that affect his community, such as the closing of Domtar.

The closing of that mill is going to cause serious economic dislocation in his community. I believe that's going to be a matter of great debate in his riding, and I hope in his caucus; it's not

before us. I know that there is no hospital in his area, and I'm sure a lot of people would say we should be talking about that. I know that farmers in his community are very worried about what's

happening to them and their livelihood, but that's not before us. I know that the member -- I hear him -- is concerned about all of those things. At some point --

Mr. Brownell: Absolutely. I have been since I got here.

Mr. Marchese: He's reminding me that he's been talking about these things since he's been here. While we have no bill or resolution from the

government that tells us how we're going to deal with any one of these things, I'm happy to hear that the member is talking about it on a regular basis. That should give some assurance to his

constituents that he's fighting for them.

What we have before us is a bill that speaks to the preservation of gravesites of former Premiers of Ontario. I have no problem with that. I think we should be

preserving their gravesites.

I have some sympathy for the argument made by the member from Niagara Centre, that is, that there are a whole lot of people in this society who work hard and

are never recognized for the challenges they face, and immigrants coming to this country face the greatest challenges that we have ever seen. Many in the last 10 to 15 years have come with two

degrees and can't get the job they're looking for, and are working at two or three jobs to make ends meet. If you happen to live in Toronto, the challenges of trying to make ends meet are even

greater. These people, in my view -- and that's why I support some of the comments made by the member from Niagara Centre -- are worthy of bringing up. While we mention the great ones, we often

omit the hard work of those who are the little people who toil away in our society and make a great, great contribution.

So yes, Premiers should be remembered and their gravesites should be remembered because they played a great political role in our province, and that I respect.

But I remind the member and his party that when I and my party tried to introduce changes to the heritage act, when we were talking about cemeteries and the need to preserve the over 5,000 we have,

which could easily be endangered, as so many are and as two of them have been, Cooley/Hatt in Ancaster and St. Alban's Anglican Cemetery in Palgrave -- these matters are still to be settled by the

courts because the ministry in charge of their preservation, the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services, under which the Cemeteries Act falls, has not been protecting these very cemeteries that

I know this member has spoken very passionately about in committee, because I've got his quote.

I don't have the time to read his quote for the record, but he spoke passionately about his concern for cemeteries and said in committee that he would be

working hard to convince his government to deal with some of the issues that I brought forth in committee, that my two colleagues brought forth in committee on a day that I wasn't able to be there.

He was going to make sure that the matters connected to cemeteries were dealt with. Ms. Mossop said they're looking at changing the regulations under the Cemeteries Act. Mr. Brown, the president of

this assembly, said that those matters could not be dealt with as we were dealing with the heritage act and that they would be dealt with in some future regulatory change of the Cemeteries Act.

We're still waiting. We're still waiting to hear from Mr. Brown, the member who now presides over this assembly. We're waiting for Ms. Mossop, the

parliamentary assistant to that committee dealing with the heritage act. We're waiting, yes, for you, member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, with your passion for cemeteries, to lead the

debate on preserving cemeteries, one that would help to make your bill a little bit stronger, one that speaks to the need to preserve cemeteries as part of our heritage.

As I support this bill, I urge the member who presents this bill and the other Liberal members who spoke in that committee when we were dealing with the

heritage act, when we were talking about cemeteries, when the Liberal members in that committee said, "Oh, no, we can't make any changes to the heritage act" simply because, some of them said, it

was just too complicated -- I want to ask them where they have been in this last year as they spoke about their desire to change the Cemeteries Act and the regulations that they said would deal

with it versus the changes we were seeking that would make the protection of cemeteries a permanent feature, that would make the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services no longer the ministry in

charge of them because they're unfit to govern cemeteries as they have given up on two cemeteries that are a matter before the courts, that they have been unwilling to protect and that are being

torn down by development. I'm looking forward to seeing the Liberals protect our cemeteries in the way they want to support this bill.

Mr. Levac: Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak on the bill, which I'm going to do. But I am challenged by the members for

Niagara Centre and Trinity-Spadina, and I accept the challenge, in terms of making sure that we're speaking about all things.

I think we have to acknowledge that we have two things to talk about. The first is multitasking. To assume that somebody is presenting a private member's bill

and that nothing else is their focus is unfair and, quite frankly, is not correct in terms of this particular member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. He's a tireless champion of his riding and

the issues that his riding is facing. I just want to put that on the record right away.

The second thing I want to put on the record is that this is private members' business. For those who are here visiting us, private members' business is

supposed to be somewhat devoid of partisan politics in that we're supposed to be talking about the bill of the day and whether it is valid and whether it should be corrected or fixed or whatever

and trying to stay focused on that.

Subsequent to that, I just have to make a comment that it's unfortunate that in some cases we turn this into a partisan spot when this is the opportunity for

us not to do that. This is the opportunity for us to talk about the bills that are before us. Take that somewhere else, because there's enough of that going on in this place. Private members'

business is a perfect opportunity for us, as colleagues in this place, to show a sign of respect that somebody's coming forward with an idea that needs to be discussed. I'm going to do that right

now.

Of the 12 million Ontarians in this province, only 103 of us are elected to represent the entire wishes, dreams and aspirations of all our citizens. Hence, I

accept the challenge that has been put before us by the two members from the NDP who talk about making sure that we honour all of those who worked so hard in the province of Ontario to be

acknowledged. But I still think there's a significant point to be made. Of the many people who have sat as MPPs, only 24 people in 139 years have been asked to be the leaders of this province. I

think it does deserve our attention. They earned the leadership of their respective parties. They earned the trust of the people of the province of Ontario. They earned the right to govern this

place, with their colleagues, to try to put things right for us and do the best they can. MPPs should take the time to honour the former Premiers. Memorializing their gravesites is just one way to

do that, and I think that's appropriate.

I also want to talk for a couple of minutes about the two Premiers who came from the riding I now represent. Harry Nixon represented the centre of the

universe, as Walter Gretzky says, of Brant North, North county and Brant, first elected in 1919 as a candidate for the United Farmers of Ontario.

The wish list that somebody up here who is privileged gets to run our province is not true. In this House today we have people who come from all walks of life,

who have got their hands torn up from the work they've done, and they do represent people from all walks of life. I look forward to the day when ethnic and multicultural people and our first female

Premier have their names immortalized as well. I look forward to that in a positive way.

Harry Nixon served in cabinet and became leader and Premier in 1943. He died in 1961. His son, Robert Nixon, was also the leader of the Liberal Party, and his

daughter, Jane Stewart, was MP for 13 years in the riding of Brant.

Arthur Sturgis Hardy was born in Mount Pleasant, another area in my riding. He was the fourth Premier of Ontario. He retired from politics in 1899. He

represented Brant South. One thing I want to bring us: He was the commissioner when Algonquin park was created in 1889.

I just want to say that nobody has a monopoly on passion in this place. Nobody has a monopoly on all the ideas. I think this is a good one that deserves

support. I thank the member for bringing it forward, and I will be supporting this bill in recognition of the great Premiers we've had in this province.

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I have a lot of respect and some affection for the member who just spoke on behalf of the

government, but I have to strongly disagree with his comments. It's rather ironic, given the history of his party in opposition for 13 years and their utilization of private members' hour for, I

would suggest some might clearly say, partisan purposes. Now that they're on the government benches, to be offended by some comments that could be construed as partisan is passing strange, to say

the least.

I think I'm speaking on behalf of our caucus. We certainly don't have any difficulty with respect to the initiative that we're discussing today in honouring

past Premiers of this province. There certainly has been a very limited number of individuals honoured with that great responsibility, and I think we will be giving it our support.

The member for Brant can construe this as partisan if he wishes. I can't argue with him on that; he's going to have a subjective

interpretation. As private

members, we have one, maybe two, opportunities during the life of a Parliament to present initiatives before this Legislature. Some people are unlucky enough in these lotteries to not ever get an

opportunity within four years. Most of us, with some luck, get one or two. Although this is a laudable initiative, I think it could have been done, as a government member, through other

channels.

My concern, as someone who also represents eastern Ontario, like the member, is the many challenges that eastern Ontario is facing, especially in the

manufacturing sector. In my own riding, we've lost a significant number of manufacturing jobs. We just had another downsizing announced this past week. I know that in the member's own riding, he

has had some very significant job losses, with Domtar the most significant. I think they closed their doors just this week as well, in terms of final closing. I would rather discuss that kind of

issue, but I know and I do appreciate, having been a government backbencher and a government minister, that it's sometimes difficult to get approval for those when you go to caucus, if it's

something where you're perhaps providing the opposition with some fodder to be critical of initiatives or lack of initiatives by the government of the day.

It may be difficult for a private member, a government member, to get that past his colleagues or past the minister who's responsible for those kinds of

initiatives. In terms of economic well-being, I would suggest that it's either the finance minister or the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. Obviously, the minister and other members

would suggest that it would be giving me an opportunity to go on in a critical way, but I don't want it to be seen as criticism. I want it to be seen as recognition of some very serious challenges

we're facing in the manufacturing sector across the province: 80,000 jobs lost last year, and projections of that number being equalled again this year. If you talk to people in the sector, they're

not very confident about the future.

I mentioned Nitrochem in my riding. I've mentioned Hathaway closing, where Hathaway shirts started in Canada, and Mahle in Gananoque. These are smaller,

surrounded by rural parts of the province. They're suffering devastating blows.

I see my friend from Northumberland here. The World's Finest Chocolate factory --

Mr. Rinaldi: They're back in business.

Mr. Runciman: He's telling me that apparently it's back in business. That's great news, because I know they were talking about transferring to

Chicago. Whether that transfer has happened -- if it hasn't happened, that's wonderful news.

But I know there are a host of areas. We talked about Nestlé in Chesterville: 300 jobs. There is a very small community, surrounded by agricultural and

rural uses. That is what's happening, certainly in eastern Ontario. Outside of Ottawa, outside of perhaps Kingston, the two big urban areas, there are a lot of people suffering, a lot of people in

really serious difficulty.

I'm sure the member for Cornwall, Stormont and Charlottenburgh appreciates that. I just regret that we are not talking about that. Hopefully, in a couple of

weeks there will be a resolution before the House calling for the creation of an eastern Ontario secretariat lodged in the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade. I hope that all the eastern

Ontario members will be present and talk about the challenges. Certainly, they can talk about the positive initiatives of the government, that's to be expected, but we can also talk about the

challenges. Hopefully they will all be here to support that initiative and then press their colleagues on the front bench, especially the Premier, another eastern Ontario representative, to ensure

that the will of the Legislature, if indeed it is the will of the Legislature, is adopted and accepted by the government and that they move on it.

That's essentially what I want to say about this. The points made earlier with respect to the resolution or motion before us today related to preserving the

gravesites of former Premiers, which is especially heartwarming for me, given that the Premiers of the province, for most of our lifetimes, have been Progressive Conservatives. So it's nice to see

that recognition.

I don't know if it's been mentioned before or not, but we have the son of a former Premier as a member of this Legislature. I had the good fortune to serve

with Frank Miller. Frank Miller gave me my opportunity to go into cabinet in 1985, when he became the Premier, as the Minister of Government Services. I've known a number of Premiers over my span

of 25 years in this place, and I have to say that I liked them all, regardless of their political stripe, all good people, all fine people wanting to make a contribution. But Frank Miller was an

exceptional guy, a truly warm person, to those of us who knew him. It's regrettable that he didn't have a longer opportunity to allow the people of Ontario to get to appreciate the Frank Miller

that those of us who served with him knew and what a fine gentleman he was.

We'll be supporting this. It's a good initiative. I just think perhaps it could have been handled in a different manner.

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): It's a pleasure to have an opportunity to say a few words on this bill today. I wanted to

also congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, on your fine attire today. I think it's different and quite special to see the Speaker dressed in that attire.

I also wanted to congratulate the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh for bringing forward Bill 25 today,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of former

premiers of Ontario. What this is doing, in essence, is basically mirroring what already exists at the national level. I have with me a copy of the national program for the gravesites of Canadian

Prime Ministers. This is something that Parks Canada has done at the federal level, recognizing the gravesites of Canadian Prime Ministers. I think it's appropriate and fitting that we do the same

thing for the Premiers of Ontario.

There are a number of gravesites; they're pointed out in the bill today, if one looks at

schedule 1, all the way from Premier John Sandfield Macdonald, our

first Premier, who is buried at St. Andrews West Cemetery in Cornwall, which is in the riding of my seatmate beside me here, the member from Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, all the way through to

Frank Miller, who is buried at Lakeview Cemetery in Gravenhurst.

In my lifetime, I have seen Frank Miller, and I would echo the sentiments quite strongly made by the member from Leeds-Grenville. He was very likable, affable,

and a very competent Premier. It reminds me of when I was watching television a few months ago and one of the stations was running an old newscast dating back to the mid-1980s or so or around that

time period. Frank Miller was Premier at the time. It was nice to see him on television again and to recall him. It's important that we recognize individuals like him and his predecessors who were

in the position of being Premier of this province.

When you travel abroad to other countries -- I've travelled throughout Europe and elsewhere -- they go to great lengths to recognize their political,

historical and literary figures. One need just walk into Westminster Abbey in London, or into the Pantheon in Rome or some of the locations in Paris, France, where writers and sculptors, as well as

politicians, are recognized. This is part of creating culture and recognizing that culture.

I think my seatmate, Mr. Brownell, has brought forward an excellent bill. It's the first step towards bringing into effect a program here in Ontario to

recognize the gravesites. I stand today in full support. I know he will be asking for a recorded vote today. I think it's important that we support that bill and move forward in the right direction

to get this made into law.

The Acting Speaker: The member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh has two minutes to reply.

Mr. Brownell: First, I would like to thank all those who spoke in support of the bill today. I'd like to thank the members from Parry

Sound-Muskoka, Niagara Centre, London-Fanshawe, Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Trinity-Spadina, Brant, Leeds-Grenville and Scarborough Southwest.

This debate this morning centres on the Premiers of our province and the recognition that they deserve at burial sites throughout this province. Being in the

Legislature this morning and welcoming Marjorie Stewart from the Ontario Genealogical Society and Rob Leverty from the Ontario Historical Society, it's a great honour for me to be here speaking on

this bill with them sitting in the gallery. I met with both these individuals and indicated to them my strong support for all resting places, all gravesites, all burial locations in this riding.

I've spoke of that many times.

It was back in grade 12 that I took out my first historical society membership, the Stormont, Dundas and Glengarry Historical Society, and it was to work as

hard as I could in my riding for history and heritage. One thing that always bothered me was traveling through the community of St. Andrews West -- and my colleague from Scarborough Southwest

alluded to John Sandfield Macdonald and St. Andrews West -- passing by his gravesite there and seeing so little recognition -- a beautiful granite monument but so little recognition. I think the

least we could do is to put an Ontario flag to fly over his gravesite. That's really what got me encouraged to do this. I certainly had support from the Honourable Steve Peters. That's why I

brought this forward, and I appreciate all the support I received in here this morning. Thank you very much.

HEART DEFIBRILLATOR USE

CIVIL LIABILITY ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

CIVILE DÉCOULANT DE L'USAGE

DE DÉFIBRILLATEURS CARDIAQUES

Mr. Crozier moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 71,

An Act to promote the use of automated external heart defibrillators / Projet de loi 71, Loi visant à promouvoir l'usage de

défibrillateurs cardiaques externes automatiques.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Pursuant to standing order 96, the member has 10 minutes to make his presentation. I recognize the member

for Essex..

Mr. Bruce Crozier (Essex): Thank you, Speaker, for allowing me the time, as you sit in the chair this morning, to debate this bill. You're

decked out in great splendour. I know that next week my frock coat is going to look a little shabby next to your dress today. It looks great. Being an individual with the name like Bruce and a name

like Crozier, which are both Scottish, I appreciate that very much.

I am here today to ask my colleagues' support of Bill 71,

An Act to promote the use of automated external heart defibrillators. It's a very brief bill: It

amounts to literally about one page. Though it is brief in its content, the reach of this bill will go all the way across the province. We're always concerned about the health and the safety of our

citizens in Ontario, and I suggest that this bill will be a major step in that direction.

I just want to take you back a little way that some of us will relate to, back to November 21, 2005, a hockey game in Detroit when a well-known, young, healthy

athlete by the name of Jiri Fischer --

Mr. Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): One of the former hockey players --

Mr. Crozier: One of the former hockey players of the Ottawa 67s?

Mr. Lalonde: The Olympics.

Mr. Crozier: Oh, there we go, the Olympics, from my friend Jean-Marc Lalonde.

Jiri Fischer, as I said, was a young, healthy athlete and suffered a cardiac arrest during the hockey game. Now, one would expect that in a place like a

professional surrounding they would have all the medical devices needed to treat their players under most conditions. And in this case, in fact, they did have a heart defibrillator. It was used on

Jiri Fischer, and I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that it was part of what resulted in saving his life. Wayne Gretzky, for example, said that currently AEDs, or automatic external

defibrillator monitors, are not mandatory in most sport venues. Hockey legend Wayne Gretzky said that he would like to see that change. If it can happen to anyone any time, the example of what

happened to Jiri Fischer is one of those cases. But he recognized that not only do we need them in arenas but perhaps in all places where the public has access -- public buildings or private

buildings where the public has access -- and that for that matter, they should be placed in the workplace.

I give you another example that occurred in my own riding of Essex, where the headline read, in March of this year, "Father Owes His Life to Defib in His Kids'

Hands." What happened was, "Nick Stoyshin is alive today because his heart attack came with son Lance and daughter Nicole ... at his side almost immediately with the defibrillator the family

company had purchased four years ago, but never used -- until now."

I have with me today in the members' gallery Wayne Currie, who is the coordinator of the city of Windsor's public access defibrillator program. Wayne works out

in the county as well and, in some instances, even into Chatham-Kent. Wayne tells me that the owner of Essex Linen, Nick Stoyshin, came to them about four years ago and said they would like to

install one of these defibrillators in the workplace. This wasn't an inexpensive outlay; it was between $5,000 and $6,000. Their firm employs about 30 employees, I understand, so it's a small firm.

But they'd heard about the defibrillator program in our area headed by Wayne and others and wanted one installed in their workplace. And, lo and behold, it was the owner of the business who was

saved in this instance.

There has been a great deal of support across Ontario for the installation of these defibrillators in public places. The Heart and Stroke Foundation is one of

the great supporters of this. Toronto EMS and other EMS services have been involved. We have the support of firefighters across the province. They know from experience that these defibrillators can

save lives.

In fact, as I say, much of the groundwork has been done in the Windsor-Essex area. In 1992, Dr. J. C. Fedoruk did a research paper, Locations of Cardiac

Arrest: Affirmation for Community Public Access Defibrillation (PAD) Program. It might be interesting for you to know that in this research paper almost 33% of sudden cardiac arrest happen

outdoors, on the highway, streets and sidewalks. I suggest to you, many of these places would be close to public buildings, close to private companies where access to a defibrillator would go a

long way to save lives.

Not surprisingly -- and I give you this information in a serious way -- the next highest area of incidence of sudden cardiac arrest, 10%, occurred at casino

locations. I don't know what that says about our casino industry; I don't frequent them, so I'm not sure. But the point is that there are identified locations where the occurrence seems to be

higher than others. Another one that's maybe more surprising is that about 6% of sudden cardiac arrests occur in medical offices or clinics. We've heard that you can walk out of your annual

examination and have a heart attack literally outside the door, and this would indicate that that in fact does happen. But the point here is that the more we can do to have these defibrillators

available throughout Ontario, the better it is.

The intent of my bill would be to take away that fear of liability when it comes to the use or the placing of defibrillators. We have been told,

notwithstanding the fact that they are being used throughout the province, that one of the barriers to placing these defibrillators is the liability that may be attached to one if you use one. So

what we want to do is ensure that users of defibrillators and the owners and operators of premises on which they're installed are protected from civil liability. If we can do that and we can

encourage the placement of these defibrillators in public places, in places where the public has access, in workplaces, I have been assured by those who support this bill -- as I said, amongst them

Heart and Stroke, emergency services and others -- that it will go a long way toward the use of these.

We're going to have a media conference after this is passed today -- and I hope that you help me pass it; I'm asking for your support -- that will demonstrate

this device. They're very hi-tech. They can be used by anyone: Not only do they give verbal instructions but, in some cases, the defibrillators work so automatically that they simply tell you to

stand back once they've been placed and the defibrillators themselves carry on.

To my colleagues, I ask for your consideration and support of this bill. I would hope that we take that step to having even more defibrillators placed

throughout the province of Ontario so that lives may be saved.

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): I'm pleased to rise today in support of Bill 71,

An Act to promote the use of automated external

heart defibrillators, and commend the member opposite for bringing forward such a worthwhile bill.

I suggested that the individual should be protected from civil liability on the basis that the bill is brought forward. I think there have been many instances

mentioned in which an automated external heart defibrillator would have saved lives. I certainly know from my personal experience in nursing the great leaps in technological advances that have

taken place. With a quick look, you just put the pads on and the machine interprets the cardiac rhythm, the heart's rhythm, and either gives you instructions verbally or delivers the shock, the

jolts of energy, itself. I know from many ambulance trips with patients from hospitals to hospitals that we've certainly had to use them. I see members of EMS up in the gallery, and they can

certainly relate to that.

When you have EMS and firefighters supporting -- and I know some of the golf courses in my area have looked into the use of these. We have here in the

Legislature I think three defibrillator machines. I'm a little concerned that there's one over in the east lobby but we don't have one in the west lobby, but I guess we can run across quickly and

get the machines when needed.

Why instances occur in doctors' offices --

Mr. Crozier: It's in the middle.

Ms. Scott: It's in the middle? Okay. That's fair. It's good to know where it is. I sometimes can't lose my nursing background, and in many

instances have left the podium and the microphone when someone has passed out in the crowd. My first reflex is to run and take a pulse. So certainly the use of these machines would be valuable and

I commend the member for bringing that forward.

There are an estimated 40,000 incidents of cardiac arrest each year in Canada, most of which take place outside of hospital settings. The odds of survival of

an out-of-hospital arrest are a dismal 5%. With the aging population, the incidence of heart attacks only increases. With the wave of Canadian baby boomers now turning 60, we'll be the first

generation actually to turn back the clock on experiencing a decline in the quality of life compared to 10 years ago. The rate of obesity in boomers has soared by nearly 60%. A whopping 52% are

inactive, yet 80% still think they enjoy a longer life expectancy than previous generations.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation spokesperson and cardiologist was quoted as saying, "This year, every day almost 1,000 Canadian baby boomers will turn 60,

entering the prime age for heart disease and stroke.... Rising obesity rates and inactivity among boomers could threaten years of steady progress towards better heart health." These are disturbing

statistics. So, for sure heart attacks and heart disease are going to become more frequent.

On the website for the Heart and Stroke Foundation, there's the story of Denise Déziel, a non-smoker who ate a healthy, low-fat diet and participated in

many sports, with no family history of cardiovascular disease. In December 2001, she ended up having a heart attack at home. Luckily, she survived, got treated quickly, went in for an angioplasty

and is back to full health. You don't think it could happen to people and it does happen.

The more we can prepare, in society and public places, with defibrillator machines that are available -- we've done a great job in training people with CPR.

There's never a place I've gone to where there isn't someone in the crowd who knows CPR. I think that with the use of automatic defibrillators -- I know many of my municipal councils are looking to

add more of the external defibrillators in their areas, especially in rural areas where ambulances just aren't around the corner and there are long distances to drive. As I mentioned, golf courses,

municipal buildings and other public buildings have defibrillators in there. They can make the difference in saving someone's life.

I congratulate the member for the worthwhile initiative and wish him all the success. You have my support for the bill.

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I'm pleased to join in the debate. I want to say at the outset that I support Bill 71 and the effort by the

member from Essex to deal with the issue of liability.

I want to take a kind of different tack, because it's not clear to me that once the issue of liability is resolved, we are going to see a significant increase

in defibrillators in public places. I regret that; I want to say that at the outset because I am a proponent and a supporter of having automatic external defibrillators in public places.

I want to relate to you some information we have been dealing with in the public accounts committee most recently that leads me to believe there is not general

support within certain circles right now for the strategic placement of defibrillators. I worry that even if this bill gets passed, it's not going to result in an increase of defibrillators in

public places as much as I would wish and as I think the member would wish. Let me just give you a little bit of background of what's been happening in the public accounts committee and what the

government's response has been to this issue, and my concern that it's not a very positive response at all, unfortunately.

The auditor in his most recent report, 2005, in the

section on land ambulance services, actually spoke to the issue of defibrillators. I'm going to read into

the record some of his report and then the ministry response. The auditor, in the

section dealing with response times in particular, said the following:

"Prompt responses are critical to the survival and well-being of patients with certain types of injuries or illnesses, particularly those experiencing cardiac

arrest. In 1994, the ministry funded the Ontario Pre-hospital Advanced Life Support study (OPALS) to support evidence-based decision-making in emergency medical services planning. The eight-year

study involved 21 communities and about 10,000 patients experiencing cardiac arrest. In addition, the study investigated the relative value of rapid access to emergency care, early cardiopulmonary

resuscitation (CPR), rapid defibrillation, and interventions by advanced-care paramedics to the survival of individuals who had suffered an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest.

"In 2003, the OPALS researchers reported that according to their findings, a response time of six minutes from call receipt to on-scene arrival could have

improved survival rates in the study communities by 3.6%, or 51 additional lives annually. As well, OPALS researchers cited a study on the use of public-access automatic external defibrillators in

casinos, and noted a 74% survival rate when defibrillation began within three minutes of cardiac arrest.

"In 2004, the OPALS researchers reported that lives were saved through a combination of CPR by on-scene citizens and rapid defibrillation responses. In many

places in Ontario, fire and police services co-operated with ambulance services in providing emergency responses to cardiac arrest patients and other emergencies, as they can often arrive before

the ambulance. These response arrangements are voluntary and vary by municipality. As well, the OPALS research noted that the strategic placement of automatic external defibrillators in public

locations, such as shopping malls, could be beneficial.

"In addition, the New England Journal of Medicine reported in 2004 that training and equipping volunteers to attempt early defibrillation within a structured

response system could increase the number of survivors of cardiac arrest in public places and concluded that trained laypersons could use automatic external defibrillators safely and effectively.

While the placement of defibrillators in all public places may not be reasonable given that OPALS researchers found that only about 15% of cardiac arrests occur in public locations, the OPALS

researchers nevertheless recommended the strategic placement of defibrillators in such public places as casinos." It was my understanding that since 1994, in fact, there have been defibrillators in

casinos and that staff in those locations have been trained to use them

The point being made by the auditor was that there is more than enough evidence to show that effective use of defibrillators can really save lives or can

really decrease the damage that is done. The auditor recommended to the Ministry of Health that the ministry "assess the costs and benefits of a fully coordinated emergency response system that

includes strategically placed publicly accessible automatic external defibrillators." That was the recommendation to the Ministry of Health.

The ministry's response was the following: "On August 11, 2005, the Ontario health technology advisory committee ... requested that the medical advisory

secretariat of the ministry conduct a health technology assessment and policy analysis of the various components of a coordinated emergency first-response system. This assessment includes response

times and the use of automated external defibrillators ... to improve survival in the event of a cardiac arrest. The assessment will be reported back to OHTAC by mid-December. At the completion of

this review, OHTAC will make recommendations to the deputy minister and the health-care system on the settings in which AEDs are cost effective. This is expected to assist in future planning for

the distribution of AEDs in Ontario."

We know that the report was done by the medical advisory secretariat, and that report was released in December 2005. What concerns me about the report is that

there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of support generally for the strategic location of defibrillators in public places. I just want to read some of the report.

The report says, "There are other delivery models for AEDs in casinos, sports arenas, and airports. The proportion of cardiac arrest at these sites out of the

total cardiac arrests in Ontario is between 0.05% and 0.4%. Thus, an AED placed at these sites would not likely be used at all." Secondly, the "medical advisory secretariat examined the

cost-effectiveness of providing AEDs in hospitals, office buildings, apartments/condominiums, and houses. The results suggested that deployment of AEDs in hospitals would be cost-effective in terms

of cost per quality adjusted life-year gained. Conversely, deployment of AEDs in office buildings, apartments, and houses was not cost-effective."

The conclusion was that the OPALS study I referred to previously "appears cost-effective, and effectiveness can be further enhanced by training community

volunteers to improve the bystander-initiated CPR rates. Deployment of AEDs in all public access areas and in houses and apartments is not cost-effective. Further research is needed to examine the

benefit of in-home use of AEDs in patients at high risk of cardiac arrest." So that's not very positive in terms of what I support, which is more defibrillators in public places.

The second problem is that this medical advisory committee, as it was supposed to, made a recommendation to the Ontario health technology advisory committee,

and that committee has released its recommendations in this regard. Again these recommendations aren't very positive either. They are as follows:

-- "OHTAC endorses and supports the current policy of giving AEDs to EMS, firefighters and police." It would be my estimation that most of those services have

defibrillators already.

-- "OHTAC does not recommend the installation of AEDs in public buildings where the very low probability that an arrest would occur in these buildings offsets

the benefits;

" -- OHTAC supports the provision of AEDs in those areas of the hospital which are not readily accessible by the code blue team;

" -- OHTAC supports the current initiative taken by some airlines to place AEDs on aircrafts and train flight attendants in CPR/AED use;

" -- The use of AEDs in homes of `high risk' individuals who do not have an ICD has not been studied. However, it is reasonable to recommend access to AEDs to

these patients, in the context of a broader comprehensive response plan. To be effective, caregivers in these settings would need to be trained in CPR and AED use to ensure the value of having the

AED available."

If this is the set of recommendations that has gone to the deputy minister, and we understand the deputy minister has the recommendations on his desk -- this

was confirmed in questions that I raised in public accounts about this issue on May 2, May 3, when we last sat in public accounts and dealt with this -- if these are the recommendations that have

gone forward, I don't see a lot of room to move in terms of convincing those who need to be convinced that we really do need and should have defibrillators in more public places.

I worry about that, because while I'm supportive of the bill, my concern is, even if the bill is passed, based on what I see in front of me in terms of

recommendations that are floating around in government, we will not have any significant increase in defibrillators in strategic locations, especially in public places. It's why I wish that some

folks would take a second look at the study that the member referred to already that was attached to the bill.

I appreciate that he gave that information to us, because it seems to me that the work that was done by the base hospital in Windsor, by Essex-Kent base

hospital, in their study between January 1, 1994, to December 31, 2000, did clearly indicate very effective use of strategically located defibrillators. I don't pretend to understand the whole

program that's in operation, but I do believe that there are defibrillators in public places. That's part of a plan that's been developed for some time, and part of the reason for this study was to

determine whether or not some of these defibrillators could be even more strategically located in areas where the study showed there had been high incidence of cardiac arrest, like casinos, also

like doctors' offices, as the member already mentioned.

So what's clear in the conclusion that was reached -- and I'm just searching for it in my papers -- is the following: "This study suggests that specific

locations within communities could benefit from AED placement. Planning for the placement of AEDs should be guided by templates/examples of high incidences of arrests. The findings have significant

pre-hospital emergency cardiac care implications for communities that wish to improve their responses to out-of-hospital cardiac arrests." This is most key: "It is suggested that each community

develop and implement a PAD program as part of a strategic plan to deal with" sudden cardiac arrest "and their subsequent effects on survival rates from" sudden cardiac arrest "in their respective

community."

I would like to see the ministry move forward on that. I think it would be very important for each community to develop such a plan. I'm worried, though, as I

say to the member from Essex, that might not be where we end up if these are the kinds of recommendations that sit on the deputy minister's desk right now.

I guess a further reason that I think we should be looking at this just goes back to an

article that was in the paper recently and my most recent experience at

a hockey tournament this weekend in the Ajax Community Centre. There was a defibrillator. It was well-marked, right in the main entrance, big red sign, arrows showing where it was for all to see so

that any member of the public who would have to use it would know where it is. That is not my experience in most arenas, however, and I've been in a lot of them, because my two kids play a lot of

hockey.

The one that touched me the most in terms of why we should be doing this at least in arenas, if not in other public places, had to do with an

article I think

we all saw in the Toronto Star, March 13, 2006 -- a really heart-wrenching

article about a young boy from Barrie, Chase McEachern, who developed a very serious heart condition, who was an

absolutely excellent young hockey player who would have been a hockey star, who, having developed this condition, which was very serious indeed, ended up having to stop playing hockey at the

request of his physicians, and ended up actually collapsing in his gym class on February 9 while doing warm-ups. While the gym teacher performed CPR and while they air-lifted him to London Sick

Kids hospital, where he was on a respirator, the brain damage was already too severe. Six days later, his parents had to make a decision to take him off the respirator, and he subsequently died

minutes later.

Before he lapsed into a coma, he had written a letter to Don Cherry as a result of the hockey incident that the member from Essex has already referred to. He

wrote that letter to Don Cherry and asked him to do whatever he could to make sure that defibrillators were mandatory in hockey arenas and schools everywhere.

He went on to say, "After seeing Jiri Fischer collapse and Mario Lemieux retire because of irregular heart rates like mine, I want people to know these heart

conditions also affect children.

"February is heart month and it would be a great time to promote defibrillators. Nowadays, defibrillators are easy to operate and should be available if needed

especially in hockey arenas.

"Please listen to my letter. Your support would really help."

I know this cause has been taken up by Don Cherry. I know his parents are now pursuing this and have started a foundation in order to try and make his last

dream a reality.

If nothing else, even in hockey arenas, this is absolutely necessary. But I think the government should take a look at the Windsor study and the Windsor

recommendation, and start to pursue a strategy where every community will have a plan of where defibrillators can be placed in public locations, so we can serve people when they need to be served

as soon as possible.

Ms. Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): I'm very pleased to rise today in support of

An Act to promote the use of automated external heart

defibrillators. I think this debate in the House today is very important. I certainly have been impacted by the effects of heart attacks and heart conditions, and I recognize the importance of

defibrillators. I recognize the importance of the new technology that we've been able to develop in this country and in our province, which we can now make available and can now save lives.

I know it's very important, in the case of a heart attack, that we address the situation very quickly, especially in the first 10 minutes. My father suffered a

heart attack in 1971 in this House, in this Legislature, in this building. As members of this Legislature know, the building is very close to a number of hospitals. However, it took half an hour to

get an ambulance to the Legislature, to the precinct. Had we had a defibrillator at that time, my father's health would have been a very different story than what it was. So I'm very pleased that

we have one here in the Legislature today and that we have them in the precinct, and that they are available for the safety of the members as well as the staff.

We also have a family friend who had a heart attack while playing bridge one day. If only for the fact that there was a retired nurse present who was able to

help -- as the member for Peterborough was talking about being called to help -- he was fortunate and was saved, and is living a healthy life today. But as we've noted, the first 10 minutes are so

important.

I want to highlight today some of the work that's being done in my community towards the introduction of external defibrillators in our various public arenas

and sports complexes. We have developed a lifeline public access defibrillator program. It's a locally grown program that has created a fundraising campaign to raise funds to put these lifeline

defibrillators in eight community areas. They are being placed in high-traffic areas. They are presently already in the Pete Palangio Arena as well as Memorial Gardens, which is our main arena in

town, and we're working towards getting one in the YMCA and other arenas. This partnership has developed through local businesses: our Kinsmen Club, which has contributed $10,000, and the local Tim

Hortons through their Smile Cookie campaign, which was held last fall. They decided to contribute the funds raised locally to the defibrillator program.

As well, in Powassan, which is a smaller community in my riding, we had an incident a few years ago at the Highview Golf Course, which had purchased its own

defibrillator. It was put to use on one of the golfers who was in crisis, and who was saved because it was there and was used. The Powassan old-timers hockey league has donated $1,000 towards

putting one into the Powassan arena. The Powassan town council has also contributed towards that purchase.

In South River-Machar and in Sundridge, we have local businesses led by Dr. Weaver, a local dentist. Dr. Weaver placed a defibrillator in his office. As he was

becoming educated on its use and the necessity to have one, he decided that it should be a community-wide project and has led his community in purchasing defibrillators for the South River-Machar

arena as well as the Sundridge arena.

As members of this Legislature know, the Heart and Stroke Foundation is doing some tremendous work in this area. They advise us that 35,000 to 40,000 Canadians

die each year from sudden cardiac arrest. I think it's so important that we do everything we can to assist people who are suffering from these health issues and from these crises. Whatever we can

do as a Legislature to enable the use of this equipment and to assist in saving lives I think is incredibly important. I want to congratulate the member from Essex for bringing forward this piece

of legislation. I think that good Samaritans who take the time and use the equipment that's available to save lives have to be protected. While we have the technology and we have this equipment, we

have to make sure that people are aware of the equipment, that they know how to use it and that they are protected when they take the time to use it.

I want to commend the member. I lend to my support to this piece of legislation. I've been touched by these issues personally, and I know many in this House

have as well. I think that it's commendable that we move forward with this piece of legislation.

Mr. Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex): I'm pleased to rise and join in the debate on a bill presented by my colleague Mr. Crozier, member for

Essex: Bill 71,

An Act to promote the use of automated external heart defibrillators, commonly known as AEDs. First of all, let me say that I certainly support this piece of legislation. It wants

to remove liability for those who may use one of these AEDs and remove civil liability from establishments or workplaces where they might be available to use.

It is amazing, the technology that has entered into all of our lives. This is a piece of technology, these AEDs, that can save lives and return people to a

healthy lifestyle in many cases. I suspect that most people who have turned to use an AED in these serious situations do it almost spontaneously, without thought except to save a life. What we need

to do is ensure to the public that if they do use one of these apparatuses, the liability is going to be removed. Of course, the bill talks about wilful recklessness etc., but in most cases people

here are trying to save lives, first and foremost.

To the availability: If liability is removed in earnest cases, then I can see the proliferation of these AEDs around the countryside. I'm from a rural riding,

and it would be very appropriate to have these in many facilities, workplaces -- arenas have been mentioned -- and other places where the public gathers. For me, it seems that if these AEDs would

provide a safety feature for those in arenas, it only extends, in my mind, that they should be in every public building. If it's good for an arena, if it's good here for Queen's Park, it should be

everywhere where people gather in large numbers.

Although 6,500 people die of sudden cardiac arrest in Ontario, many more are saved through the use of AEDs. I want to quote from a Chatham Daily News

article

where a gentleman was talking about these particular systems. He suggested that they'd be in locked cabinets similar to those of fire extinguishers, equipped with an alarm bell, so that if someone

were to take one and use it in a frivolous manner, an alarm would go off. For those who may not be trained or be unqualified persons, "the devices come with both written and audible

instructions.

"`There's pictures on it, and it actually talks to you and tells you what to do next.'

"The devices also come with built-in safety precautions, including software that checks for a pulse so that the device is not used on someone who doesn't need

it." It seems to me that persons with training, of course, could use these AEDs; and those without training, if they follow what seems to be fairly simple instructions and also safeguard that it

would not activate in certain situations. We should see these in all public buildings and therefore remove the liability.

I also want to quote from the Heart and Stroke Foundation: "More than 35,000 Canadian lives are lost each year due to cardiac arrest. Defibrillation improves

survival rates by up to 30% if delivered in the first few minutes. With each passing minute, the probability of survival declines by 7% to 10%. Making defibrillators easily accessible has the

potential to save thousands of lives." I think that's what the member is trying to achieve through this bill, in extenuating circumstances to everyone.

"An automated external defibrillator is a machine that analyzes and looks for shockable heart rhythms, advises the rescuer of the need ... and delivers that

shock" if required. It's really quite an amazing device, in my mind, and I think we can all share in the usage of such.

Finally, I want to quote from a study that's been cited by others here today. "Survival is greater for individuals in public places that have access to on-site

defibrillation programs than it is for those places without such capabilities."

I commend the member from Essex, Mr. Crozier, for bringing this valuable piece of legislation forward, and I would urge all members to support it.

Mr. Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford): I just want to speak on this bill. It's certainly a bill that has been well discussed today so

far. But let's be clear with the facts in terms of defibrillation.

Defibrillation is currently regulated as a controlled act under the Regulated Health Professions Act. There is no legislation in the province of Ontario that

requires the establishment of the so-called automated external defibrillation programs. A person who uses a defibrillator in an emergency, in my understanding from the research I have done already,

would be covered under the Good Samaritan Act and they would only be liable with respect to acts of gross negligence. With respect to the use of defibrillation in this province, based on the

research and the understanding that I have, under the Good Samaritan Act it's already covered with respect to civil liability. It is also exempt from the Regulated Health Professions Act in terms

of a person being able to use that.

What we have in front of us today -- and I certainly recognize that the member from Essex in good faith has brought forth this Bill 71, essentially a

stand-alone act to deal with defibrillation. But in my humble opinion, this bill isn't necessary at all. It's already covered under the Good Samaritan Act. What we should be doing is going further

in making sure, as the member from Nickel Belt indicated, that defibrillation is a program in this province.

I would cite a bill introduced only for first reading in 2001 by the current Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. It was called Bill 51, the Portable Heart

Defibrillator Act. In that act:

"The bill would require that portable heart defibrillators be made available and installed in significant public buildings, including privately owned buildings

such as shopping centres, arenas and stadiums that have significant public access. The widespread installations would be completed within three years after the bill is enacted. The Ministry of

Health and Long-Term Care in consultation with emergency health stakeholders is required to develop and issue training and education guidelines for the use of portable defibrillators within six

months after the bill is enacted.

"The bill provides protection from civil liability for users of defibrillators and owners of premises on which the defibrillators are installed."

We have here a bill, Bill 71, which I will support, but I think it needs to be drastically amended to deal with the intent and purposes of what we want to

accomplish in this province. In the United States, as of 2001 all 50 states had enacted AED legislation. These statutes typically include the following provisions: establish legislative intent that

an automatic external defibrillator may be used by any person for the purpose of saving a life of another person in cardiac arrest; require that a state-licensed physician act as a medical

supervisor of a program; encourage or require responders, i.e. those who will be responsible for using defibrillators, to complete a nationally recognized training CPR-AED course for lay responders

such as the American Heart Association's heart-saver AED course; require AED devices to be maintained and tested to manufacturer's standards; create a registry of the location of all defibrillators

or notification of a local emergency medical authority; allow a Good Samaritan exemption from liability for any individual who renders emergency treatment with a defibrillator; and, finally,

authorize a state agency to establish more detailed requirements for training and registration. That is what we need in this province. That is what this bill does not do and what needs to be

amended, if we go to public hearings on this bill, to actually have it do something more than what is provided under the Good Samaritan Act, which is currently the law.

What I'm saying in essence is that

(1) Bill 71 is already covered by the Good Samaritan Act with respect to protection for civil liability, and (2) there is no

legislation in this province with respect to programs for installing automatic external defibrillators, and it's something we need to have and that was recognized in Bill 51 by the current Minister

of Immigration and Citizenship, and I heartily propose we do that.

I'm not here for a debate with respect to specious legal arguments. I'm a lawyer and I know what I think is covered by this in the research we've looked at. We

have to go broader with this legislation in terms of what's required. I think we have to look to the United States and the model they have put forth for dealing with this particular issue. Quite

frankly, they have done something about it.

I am the member who represents the city of Barrie. The member from Nickel Belt did point out a very sad situation in my riding. Barrie's Chase McEachern, a

young boy, died on February 15. He would have turned 12 on March 31 of this year. He was diagnosed with a rare heart condition last fall. As I said, he died on February 15, six days after passing

out during gym class. He was an outstanding young man and he was also an outstanding young athlete. While on the waiting list for heart surgery, Chase had written a letter to Don Cherry to help

promote the need for defibrillators in all schools and hockey arenas. He lapsed into a coma before he could send it, but a family friend got the letter to Mr. Cherry. I want to read this letter to

the House today. This is the text of the letter sent to Hockey Night in Canada's Don Cherry by Chase McEachern:

"Dear Mr. Cherry:

"My name is Chase McEachern. I will be 12 years old March 13th. I live in Barrie but I play hockey in Vaughan. I am an assistant captain on the Vaughan Kings

Minor Peewee Triple A team in the Greater Toronto Hockey League.

"With the support of my family and my coach, Mr. Darrell, I am writing this letter to you to bring attention to an important matter.

"I have recently been diagnosed with a heart condition by cardiologists at Toronto Sick Kids Hospital. I have an unusually high heart rate and an atrial

flutter. I have been in and out of Sick Kids Hospital several times since October.

"When I wore the holter heart monitor during hockey practices, my heart rate spiked to over 300 beats per minute. Sometimes, I can feel my heart racing, but

most times I don't feel anything. I was told by my cardiologist at Sick Kids that I cannot finish this hockey season because it is too dangerous. I am on heart medications and on a waiting list for

heart surgery in the spring. I hope the surgery will be successful because I really want to play for Vaughan again next season.

"The point of my letter is to start a campaign to make defibrillators mandatory in hockey arenas and schools everywhere.

"After seeing Jiri Fischer collapse and Mario Lemieux retire because of irregular heart rates like mine, I want people to know these heart conditions also

affect children.

"February is Heart Month and it would be a great time to promote defibrillators. Nowadays, defibrillators are easy to operate and should be available if needed

especially in hockey arenas.

"Please listen to my letter. Your support would really help.

"Yours truly,

"Chase McEachern."

I think anyone in this province who has either a child in hockey or is a grandparent with children in hockey recognizes the situation. This is a very sad

situation, and I think there's a cause that should be picked up today. I put it out to Mr. Crozier today. He has started this with respect to protection and civil liability, which is important,

because we need to have it to use, and we need people to use it, because they have to know that they're out there to protect people who do need it.

I will say that I support this bill, but I support the bill in the context of saying that we need to do more. We need to do a lot more with respect to dealing

with this from a legal point of view. We need to deal with it from a public policy point of view to ensure that young people like Chase and other people who have gone before him are not

forgotten.

I support the bill, but I urge the member to recognize that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, under Bill 51, went a lot further, and we can go a lot

further in this House with respect to what we need to do.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I'll give my time to the member from Oshawa.

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): I want to take a moment in front of the bill to just make a couple of comments, first of all, on what we've heard

today, and also on the designation of private members' business. No finer times do we see in this place than the actions and the activities that take place -- this is my opinion, and I'll state

clearly that this is my opinion -- in private members' business, when we shed our shackles of party membership for a moment and look at the issues that each member decides to bring in their ballot

to the forefront.

I want to compliment and thank the member from Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford. He showed a side of himself today that I know has always been there. When those types of

issues come to us as elected officials, it designates one more time what I've said since I've been elected in this place: We are the voice, the hearts, the wishes, the dreams and the aspirations of

our constituency. We do have heartfelt feelings about our constituency, and that's a good thing. That's something we should all be very proud of. So I want to thank the member for his compassion,

his understanding and his challenge for us to continue to look for good pieces of legislation.

The member from Nickel Belt offered us some suggestions that I believe were in the same vein, that ask us, in a challenging way but in a respectful way, to

take a look at what governments can do to continue to push forward.

I myself offered a bill that this Legislature adopted and accepted called Sabrina's Law, regarding anaphylaxis, very much in the same vein as what we're

talking about today, where people can die within a two- to three- to four-minute period. We need to have better practices in place. That was accepted, and it was a very touching testimony to those

who have unfortunately died as a result of anaphylaxis.

So in front of the bill, I want to simply say very clearly that this is the right thing to do. I appreciate what both members said in terms of the right steps

in the right direction. We can't help but use private members' business for those purposes. I said earlier, when speaking to the previous private member's bill, that I myself personally share the

opinion that this is the place where we can collectively share a common good, share common visions and share common dreams, without the shackles. I don't want to say this in a negative way, but

there are shackles on us in terms of what our parties want us to do and where we want to go, particularly those of the governing party. But I also respectfully suggest that it's an opportunity for

us to show the rest of the people who watch this place and who sometimes only watch question period and get the false impression that we don't know how to get along -- I think private members'

business is a perfect opportunity for us to do that.

I've only got a couple of minutes left, but I want to now move into the

preamble as to why I want to talk so positively about the member's bill, and that is,

let's remember, in front of the defibs, in front of resuscitation techniques, we have those people, on a day-to-day basis, who put themselves forward as our emergency response teams. Those people

-- the firefighters, the paramedics, the police officers, the citizens who step forward who have been trained in first aid and Red Cross -- those people put themselves out there on a regular basis.

We admire you; we thank you; we are grateful. You are true professionals who do that day-to-day work. The training of what is happening now, this evolution we're going through, is one of those

things we need to catch up with.

I want to take some of the comments that have been made to say, remember, this is a step-by-step process, an evolution, and here is one more. I want to say to

the member, thank you very much, Mr. Crozier, for stepping forward and acknowledging that this is another piece of the puzzle that needs to be continually put together to offer us the wonderful

solution we have of being able to save a life. That's not spoken of enough, being able to put something in place so that it becomes commonplace to save a life because we're doing the right

thing.

I want to compliment him for doing that, and obviously, for those people who have had the unfortunate experience of suffering through those tragedies, also

celebrating those triumphs of beating death because we were there and prepared. That's what this is going to do. It's going to make us prepared and give us an opportunity to save lives.

The longitudinal studies have been done. The locations where these should be have been done. The proper protections are what we're looking for now to ensure

that every angle is cut off from liability. I want to compliment all the members for their participation on this bill.

I want to thank you, Speaker, for this opportunity. I will make a comment about your knees; they're very attractive in your tartan today.

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): In the time I have, I'd like to thank the member from Essex on bringing the issue forward. As a hockey fan

and coach, I certainly see these things. Whether it's in the Oshawa Civic Auditorium or some of the other rinks, it's great to see. The one thing I would ask, possibly, is that the government look

at a program that potentially could aid in locating defibrillators, whether it's Scout camps -- because I know that locally we have about 36,000 Scouts going through -- or in other areas as well,

whether it's northern or rural Ontario. Sometimes, it's very expensive to place these things, so not only the locations and a program to assist in putting defibrillators in the locations, but also

in the training to make sure it happens for them.

We will be supporting the member. I think it's a good cause. Anything we can do to move it forward, we'll certainly be there for you.

The Acting Speaker: The member for Essex has two minutes to reply.

Mr. Crozier: I want to thank the members from Haliburton-Victoria-Brock, Nickel Belt, Nippissing, Chatham-Kent-Essex, Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford,

Brant and Oshawa for their comments.

I want to recognize today that here supporting me is Morty Henkle, executive director of the Mikey Network, which is a charity working to create public

awareness and provide education about heart defibrilators. Justin Brown is manager of government relations for the Heart and Stroke Foundation, and Kathy Hall is an Ontario government employee who

was saved by the AED in the Macdonald Block. Kathy, thank you for being with us today. I have mentioned Wayne Currie, as well as several manufacturer representatives, and Kara Lynn Ashton is from

the Toronto EMS. Thanks so much for joining me.

Just in comment on the bill, I agree with the member for Nickel Belt that there is a lot more we have to do to encourage the government to become very actively

involved in this. It is placing these devices in some of the public areas. As we said, one is right outside the door here. But I am going to be with you to encourage the government to do a lot more

when it comes to that.

As to the member for Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford and his comments about the Good Samaritan Act, you can never seem to get two of these lawyers to agree. We have an

opinion that there is a grey area in the Good Samaritan Act and that's why we've brought this forward.

As far as their being in public places is concerned, I agree. I looked at Mr. Colle's bill. In fact, I got his permission to take this matter up, since he

started it. There is a great deal of difficulty in defining what a public building and a building that has public access is. We will continue to work on that. But this liability question is one

that stops a lot of private industry and municipalities from placing them. We want to get that issue, the case of liability, settled. Thank you. I ask for your support.

The Acting Speaker: The time provided for private members' public business has expired.

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): We will deal first with ballot item number 25, standing in the name of Mr. Brownell.

Mr. Brownell has moved second reading of Bill 25,

An Act to preserve the gravesites of former Premiers of Ontario.

All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

We're going to do the second vote and put off the recorded vote till that time.

HEART DEFIBRILLATOR USE

CIVIL LIABILITY ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006 SUR LA RESPONSABILITÉ

CIVILE DÉCOULANT DE L'USAGE

DE DÉFIBRILLATEURS CARDIAQUES

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Mr. Crozier has moved second reading of Bill 71,

An Act to promote the use of automated external heart

defibrillators.

All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye."

All those opposed will please say "nay."

I declare the motion carried.

Pursuant to the order of the House, this bill is referred to the committee of the whole House.

I recognize the member for Essex.

Mr. Bruce Crozier (Essex): It seems to me I've heard that before. I would ask that consent be given to send the bill to the standing committee

on social policy.

The Acting Speaker: Shall this bill be referred to the standing committee on social policy? Agreed.

GRAVESITES OF FORMER

PREMIERS ACT, 2006 /

LOI DE 2006

SUR LES LIEUX DE SÉPULTURE

DES ANCIENS PREMIERS MINISTRES

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ted Arnott): Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1201 to 1206.

The Acting Speaker: All those in favor of the motion will please rise.

Ayes

Balkissoon, Bas

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Klees, Frank

Kwinter, Monte

Levac, Dave

Marchese, Rosario

Marsales, Judy

Martel, Shelley

Matthews, Deborah

Miller, Norm

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Munro, Julia

Murdoch, Bill

Ouellette, Jerry J.

Prue, Michael

Ramal, Khalil

Rinaldi, Lou

Ruprecht, Tony

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Tascona, Joseph N.

The Acting Speaker: All those opposed to the motion will please rise.

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 28; the nays are 0.

The Acting Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

Pursuant to standing order 96, the bill is referred to the committee of the whole -- I recognize the member for Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I seek consent that Bill 25 be sent to the standing committee on the Legislative

Assembly.

The Acting Speaker: Shall this bill be sent to the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly?

All those in favour will please rise and remain standing.

The majority is in favour, and the bill will be going to the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly.

All matters relating to private members' public business having now been completed, I do now leave the chair. The House will resume sitting at 1:30 p.m.

The House recessed from 1209 to 1330.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

TARTAN DAY

Mr. Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): It always brings me great pleasure to have the opportunity to wear my kilt and celebrate today the

15th anniversary of my resolution to name April 6 as Tartan Day in the province of Ontario. The declaration of Arbroath on April 6, 1320, marked the day a group of Scottish nobles swore

independence from England.

Legislature who are wearing tartan today.

On April 6 of each year, we wear tartan to honour the contributions of Scottish settlers to the province. As a matter of fact, many communities in Ontario have

been named after Scottish leaders, communities such as Fergus, Wallaceburg, Glengarry county and Cambridge, just to name a few.

Tartan was and still is worn by members of Scottish clans for the purpose of identification of both the clan and the clan's territory. First recorded in

history by Julius Caesar in France, where he first observed Celtic tribes, tartans came in many different forms: mourning tartans, hunting tartans, clan tartans and district tartans. The Ontario

tartan is in fact a district tartan identifying the wearer as being from the province of Ontario. Even billionaire property tycoon Donald Trump has joined the celebration of Tartan Week in New

York, where this Sunday thousands of pipers and drummers will make their way down New York City's Sixth Avenue.

If you're wearing a kilt, tie or some other form of tartan today, you're not only celebrating our Scottish history and their contribution to the multicultural

nature of Ontario, but you are in good company.

EVENTS IN MISSISSAUGA

Mr. Tim Peterson (Mississauga South): I rise today to tell the House about the Southside Shuffle, a gala evening called New Orleans 2006, and

to introduce Mr. Chuck Jackson.

Chuck Jackson is the founder of the Southside Shuffle, a four-day blues festival in the town of Port Credit in my riding of Mississauga South. It takes place

the weekend after Labour Day, this year from Wednesday, September 6, to September 10.

Over 75,000 people from all over North America will attend the four-day festival. On Saturday, the main street of Port Credit is closed and over 20 restaurants

will have blues bands playing. The main stage on Friday night this year will feature David Clayton Thomas, and the main stage continues on both Saturday and Sunday.

In 2005, Chuck and I founded the New Orleans Gala. In our first year, over 600 people on a Wednesday were treated to an evening of delicious food provided by

10 restaurants. Music from seven different performers and wine, spirits and beer were all donated to the evening.

Due to the generous support of five companies in my riding -- Petro-Canada, St. Lawrence Cement, the Ontario Pharmacists' Association, GlaxoSmithKline and AECL

-- and the 10 local restaurants and the 600 people, we were able to donate $20,000 to five local charities, $5,000 to New Orleans relief and $20,000 to the Southside Shuffle so it can expand its

activities.

Both Chuck and I and the 60 volunteers are very proud that the citizens of Mississauga came together to benefit five local charities: the Lakeshore Corridor,

Youth Net Peel, the Compass, the food bank and Interim Place.

All of us are aware that even in the wealthiest ridings in Ontario, some of our population lives below the poverty line and needs assistance from local

charities. Mr. Speaker and members of the House, it is a pleasure to introduce to you Mr. Chuck Jackson, founder of the Southside Shuffle and co-founder of the New Orleans Gala.

HOCKEY

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): The cuts have been made, and the 50 finalists have been chosen in CBC television's Kraft

Hockeyville contest. My hometown of Barry's Bay has made the grade. A renewed excitement was in the air this past weekend, as the news spread through the area like wildfire. As a pleased and

excited Reeve John Hildebrandt said, "I think it's fabulous. It's amazing to me to think that out of 450 applications, we're down to 50."

The remaining contestants must now submit a two-minute video telling Canadians why their community should be named Hockeyville. It's all about community spirit

and the great Canadian game of hockey. Both were prominently displayed this past weekend, as the first Opeongo Heritage Cup was played: a friendly but spirited round robin between teams of German,

Irish and Polish descent, whose ancestors came to settle in the Valley some 150 years ago.

The tournament featured exciting hockey played at a very high calibre. The stands were full and rocking, as fans cheered for their respective teams. After

treating everyone to a great weekend of very closely played contests, the Irish team emerged as the victor.

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate Michael Papania and Shawn O'Reilly and everyone involved in the Hockeyville application, and also David Shulist

and his team of volunteers for making the first Heritage Cup such a tremendous success and an integral part of our Hockeyville submission.

Municipalities and their citizens from all around the Valley are throwing their support behind Barry's Bay's bid. In fact, Dave Bassett, better known as the

Singing Farmer, has already composed a song being played throughout the Valley, encouraging people to get their votes in for the only real choice for Hockeyville: Barry's Bay.

MAKING THE GRADE

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I'm pleased to welcome to the chamber students who participated in CBC television's groundbreaking Making

the Grade project. The students aren't just making the grade; they're making history. This is the first time ever in Ontario that students have drafted legislation that we will debate and hopefully

pass into law in this House.

Each party sponsored a different bill. I was pleased and proud to work with the students from St. Ignatius of Loyola Catholic Secondary School in Oakville,

Cardinal Carter Catholic High School in Aurora and Lisgar Collegiate in Ottawa. I congratulate the students for their impressive work, and I want to commend the genius of CBC's Queen's Park

reporter Mike Wise, who developed the program.

With the time remaining, I'd like to acknowledge the students by name, if I can get them all in: Zach Brewer, Hajoon Choi, Andrew Cormier, Michael Daly,

Jacqueline DiFilippo, Lindsay Franco, Anthony Gomes, Philip Hemsley, Zach Horcoff, Nikki Kellner, Christina Lee, Katie MacFarlane, Nicholas McLeod, Alicia Medina, Paul Mitchell, Erin O'Leary, Sarah

Primeau, Korina Punzalan, Yagin Rahmani, Regine Robles, Ana Romero, Karen Spilak, Stephen Stanford, Gabriela Torres, Henry Whitfield, Vanessa Fleming, Natasha Burrow, Lauren Babic, Carly Carrigan,

Kendra Stephenson, Amanda Piron, Liz Piccoli, Dante Lagrasta, Sasha Kuyumju -- I promised Sasha I wasn't going to murder her name, and I think I might have -- Stefano Longhin, Kristina Karakolis,

and Majd El-Samrout.

I salute the teachers also: Giulia D'Agostino, Lori Lucignani, and Ken Rachner, who also happens to be a constituent in Hamilton East.

Welcome to all, and bravo.

JANE STREET AND HIGHWAY 7

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): The intersection of Jane Street and Highway 7 is a major artery for my riding of Thornhill. On February 7 this

year, the intersection's pipe infrastructure gave in. The city of Vaughan is working to replace the pipe system, in addition to putting up signs to notify the community that businesses are still

open. With all this effort, however, the local businesses are still suffering.

The importance of this intersection to my riding of Thornhill cannot be understated. With this in mind, I would like to publicly invite everyone to join me

tomorrow, Friday, to visit the restaurants and businesses at the Jane and Highway 7 intersection. I encourage everyone to drop in at lunchtime to enjoy a quick coffee and/or lunch or to stop and

shop at a variety store. I trust that once you visit this friendly intersection, you will see how important and valuable this area is, not only for the community of Thornhill, but for the entire

region of York. This is also the location of the future subway station and therefore will be a very important location for the greater Toronto area.

I also want to say to the House that the province is working with the city of Vaughan through the Vaughan business centre to find some solutions to the

problem. In fact, the province subsidized the Vaughan business centre, and recently there has been a meeting to find some solutions, potentially to train the business community on how to deal with

this problem. I invite all of you again to join me on Friday. If I have to pay, I will.

BORDER SECURITY

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): Yesterday, I was glad to attend the annual general meeting of Attractions Ontario at Dundurn Castle in

Hamilton. The people attending this event were exceedingly disappointed that the McGuinty Liberal government, for all intents and purposes, ignored tourism in the provincial budget two weeks

ago.

Months before that budget, tourism industry representatives had told the government that Ontario was challenged by a major decline in US visitors, reaching a

33-year low last year. Now it's likely to get even worse because it appears our American visitors may soon need a passport or a new identity document to get back home. We are already feeling the

impact, as word continues to spread of new bureaucracy at the border.

Just today I spoke with a Toronto cab driver who used to get 40% of his fares in American currency. He told me he hasn't seen an American dollar in a month.

Yesterday, in response to my questions on the challenge our tourism industry faces, the Premier of Ontario simply pointed a patronizing crooked finger at the federal government.

The truth is that Ontario is facing this enormous challenge, in part because of too many gratuitous anti-American statements by too many Liberals in recent

years, which have received prominent media coverage in the United States. Instead of using up the time of this House with partisan nonsense, the government of Ontario should be pushing for a

Canadian exemption or a security-upgraded driver's licence and extending the tight time frames that start in just eight months from now. We need to talk more about our friendship and free trade and

we need action to protect jobs on both sides of the border. If we're not successful, the government must be ready with a contingency plan which includes a $30-million marketing expenditure --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls): Say it isn't so. As a border community, my riding of Niagara Falls is extremely concerned about the

ill-conceived, ill-intentioned plan by the United States government to implement stricter passport controls between our two friendly nations. The requirement for Americans to have US passports to

re-enter their own country will make the SARS crisis for the tourist industry look like a Sunday flu on a sunny day.

Niagara Falls is a tourist-driven economy. There are billions of dollars at stake, not just this year, but every year until this problem gets seriously

addressed. The Niagara Falls Chamber of Commerce fears thousands of jobs will be lost next year and over $1 billion lost for the local economy each and every year until this gets resolved. The

provincial and federal coffers will lose millions of dollars. Niagara Parks will suffer. Our two casinos will suffer. The Fort Erie slots and racetrack will suffer. Our hospitality industry will

suffer. Our arts community will be absolutely decimated.

Why has the Prime Minister abandoned the border communities of Canada? Why is he not leveraging our assets to get this issue resolved? These are the questions

that my community wants answered. These are the questions that my community and the investors who spend billions of dollars to make our community a world-class attraction are asking and these are

the questions that my community wants answered now.

LA FRANCOPHONIE

M. Phil McNeely (Ottawa-Orléans): La semaine dernière, j'ai eu le plaisir de me joindre à l'Assemblée parlementaire de la

francophonie pour leur Commission des affaires parlementaires dans la belle ville bilingue d'Ottawa.

L'Assemblée parlementaire de la francophonie e été créée en 1967, et regroupe des parlementaires de 74 parlements ou organisations

interparlementaires répartis sur les cinq continents. Son action vise principalement à promouvoir et défendre la démocratie, l'État de droit, le respect des droits de

L'Assemblée parlementaire de la francophonie est un lieu de débats, de propositions et d'échanges d'informations sur tous les sujets

d'intérêt commun à ses membres. Elle adopte des résolutions sur des sujets intéressant la communauté francophone dans les domaines politique, économique, social

et culturel.

On a eu aussi le plaisir d'entendre un discours présenté par M. Normand Jutras, député rapporteur de la Commission des affaires

parlementaires. Sa présentation, intitulée Le contrôle parlementaire en Francophonie, avait comme but d'informer les délégués sur les diverses formes de gouvernement

qui mènent les pays francophones du monde.

Il est vrai que certains d'entre eux n'ont pas les structures démocratiques qu'on a ici au Canada. En ce cas, l'Assemblée parlementaire de la

francophonie met en oeuvre des actions du développement de la démocratie au sein des parlements francophones.

Monsieur le Président, j'étais fier de pouvoir participer à une telle initiative.

Étant donné que ma circonscription d'Ottawa-Orléans inclut un grand nombre de francophones, ça m'a fait plaisir de me joindre aux autres

délégués canadiens de la part d'Orléans.

EASTERN ONTARIO

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): I take it as a personal obligation to explain to this House on behalf of my constituents

the awkward position this government has put me in. Under previous governments, the members from my riding expected me to make one or two announcements a session, as eastern Ontario and communities

like Cornwall, South Dundas and South Stormont were largely ignored. Indeed, it was under previous governments that the concept of Ontario ending at Kingston was forged.

Well, the McGuinty government sees things differently. They have made a point of ensuring that all parts of Ontario are respected, including the east and my

riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

As I am sure is the case for many members present, I find myself, for perhaps the first time in the history of my riding, in the position of having to decide

which announcement to make first. Should I mention the nearly $7 million going to roads and bridges throughout my entire riding? Should I talk about nearly $400,000 for land ambulances; the $1

million going to water projects in South Stormont and South Dundas; the new community health centre?

With all the long-deserved consideration this government has shown my riding, it's hard to know where to begin. The fact is that all these communities, and

communities all across Ontario, were allowed to decay under previous governments. The last one went so far as to download responsibilities while cutting funding to municipalities they expected to

provide them.

What the Leader of the Opposition calls a spending spree is more accurately described as necessa