Manitoba Hansard — 3 November 2020 (Sitting 13B, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-13b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 13B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, November 3, 2020 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MOSES, Jamie St.

Vital NDP MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon.

Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC

517 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, November 3, 2020 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? Committee reports? Tabling of reports? The honour able Minister of Economic Development and Training (Mr. Eichler)? Is there a report to be tabled from the honourable Minister of Economic Development and Training? If not, I'll move on. Ministerial statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Assiniboia, on a members' statement. The member needs to turn his mic on. Unmute.

Acknowledging Assiniboia Constituency Mr. Scott Johnston (Assiniboia): I look forward to indicating to the House and the constituents of Assiniboia of how proud I am of the efforts that they have put forward in regarding–to continue to address the COVID situation that we all find very challenging for everyone within the province of Manitoba, as well as the country of Canada and the world.

I'm so proud of th e efforts that many specialty groups have taken, in particular the Crestview Scouts, who have continued to do fundraising drives and food drives to ensure that they are trying to accommodate the needs of those people who are certainly in need. And I noti ce in our St. James community – St. James-Assiniboia community that there are many people that are encouraging people to continue to go out and pat our front-line service workers on the back and indicate how great of a job they're doing.

So, Madam Speaker, I will end by indicating how proud I am of the constituents of Assiniboia, as well as the people of Manitoba. We will get through this. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a members' statement. Shawenim Abinoojii Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): I'd like to recognize the work of Shawenim Abinoojii. Shawenim Abinoojii works in collaboration with the leadership of the Southeast Tribal Council First Nations and Southeast Child and Family Services to provide culturally appropriate placements for children in care in the eight First Nations that they serve.

Shawenim Abinoojii is the Anishinabe phrase which describes our sacred duty to love, protect and nurture the children. Currently, with 45 homes based on rese rve, Shawenim's main goal is to keep First Nation children and youth rooted in their home communities, connected to their language, land and culture. As the needs of First Nations' youth continue to grow, Shawenim adapts. In 2018, Winnipeg Street Census identified CFS involvement as one of the common paths into homelessness.

Indigenous youth represent over 70 per cent of those reporting homelessness that year, many of whom shared they became homeless within 30 days of leaving care. In response to these outcomes, Shawenim was able to launch the Memengoo program, which meets the needs of First Nation children–youth aging out of the child -welfare system. This prevention -based program focuses on reducing youth homelessness through a transitional home that s upports them through their journey into adulthood with built -in resources that provide life skills and educational opportunities.

All of this important work would not be possible without the resilient leadership of Shawenim executive director Jason Whitf ord. Jason's a proud member of the Sandy Bay Ojibway Nation. Jason works closely with Victoria Fisher, a proud Indigenous woman and Shawenim foster -care director, another characteristic that shows Shawenim's commitment to providing culturally appropriate care, which can be found in the Indigenous staff and caregivers throughout the organization. Partnerships are critical for Shawenim's effective- ness.

Their commitment to supporting Indigenous family rights is greatly supported by Rhonda Kelly, executive d irector of Southeast Child and Family

518 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 Services, who should be commended for her continued positive support. Governed by a board of directors made up of community members and leadership, Shawenim truly has the children's and community's well -being at heart. With the help of these individuals, Shawenim Abinoojii has been able to grow and to remain committed to their primary goal, rooted in their namesake, which is their sacred duty to love, protect and nurture our children. The programs that I've mentione d are just a few of the programs that Shawenim offers.

I invite every- one to visit shawenim-abinoojii.ca to see all the great work being offered. I ask my colleagues to rise and show our appreciation for the hard work being done by Shawenim Abinoojii in bringing our children home. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Waverley, on a member's statement. Could the member please– Mr. Jon Reyes (Waverley): Madam Speaker, I have no member's statement for today. Supports for Women During Pandemic Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): One day, history will show a Premier (Mr.

Pallister) missing in action and of blame, a Premier whose austerity measures left a health -care system vulnerable and unable to fully respond with enough nurses, health-care practitioners, ICU beds, testing sites, contact tracers–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –and PPE, predominantly impacting on women, Madam Speaker. The record will show that, while women are disproportionately impacted by COVID -19, the Premier simply didn't care.

Women are more likely to be working in high- risk front -line jobs, like health care, teachers, caregivers or essential service workers, or that women still bear the brunt of yesteryear gender roles, like home -schooling, child ca re, household management and caring for aged loved ones, while pushing aside their own mental health instead to focus on the emotional and mental well -being of our own families. Did the Premier lift up and protect women? No, Madam Speaker.

He is responsible for increased stress in the lives of women by mishandling child care and by ensuring child- care centres were threatened with funding cuts early on in the pandemic. And the Minister of Families' (Mrs. Stefanson) offer of Subway sandwiches to child-care centres just doesn't cut it. History will show that no additional supports for women's organizations came from the minister of Status of Women, no additional supports for women entrepreneurs and women workers came from the Finance Minister.

They will find that while the Manitoba Institute for International Women's Rights called on the Premier to adopt a gender-based analysis in decision making, the Premier has not ever once offered a commitment to a 'she-covery' plan. Madam Speaker, Manitobans deserve better than this Premier and his Cabinet. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for – [interjection] Order. Order. Bill and Sue-On Hillman Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): A love affair with each other and music that began in the mid-1960s continues on today.

Bill and Sue -On Hillman were married on August 29th, 1966, beginning their life - long love for each other and the opportunity to enjoy their passion for music together. At the age of two, her mother pressed Sue -On Choy into the arms of a neighbour fleeing to Hong Kong from the oppression of the communist government in China. Even after her mother Jade managed to join her in Hong Kong, it would be eight more confusing years until the family, including her father Soo, could be reunited in Canada.

The family made their way to Newdale, Manitoba, where Sue -On eventually went to school and worked at the family -owned Paris Café. At the age of 15, she fell in love with a Strathclair boy and musician, Bill Hillman, and they married when she turned 18. Both attended Brandon University and performed nightly in Brandon nightspots to earn enough money to earn five university degrees and become high-school teachers. Bill taught in Strathclair for 30 years.

Together with Barry Forman of Rivers, the Hil lmans formed The Western Union, performing at area dances, touring western Canada, the United States and England during the summer and recording albums in the early 1970s. In total, the couple cut 12 albums of

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 519 original music and were featured regularly on CBC television. The Hillmans also found the time to raise three children, Ja -On, Robin and China -Li, who are all actively involved in music. Madam Speaker, on behalf of all Manitobans, I want to recognize Bill and Sue -On Hillman for their 54 years of ma rriage and their contribution to the vibrant music industry in Manitoba over the past six decades. Thank you. * (13:40) Housing the Homeless Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, being homeless in winter is preventable.

There is a solution: organize like Medicine Hat and get the job done. Another option is to rent empty hotel space for people to stay. This would need help for –with addictions, mental illness, security and getting people back on their feet. With leadership, it can be done. More than half of people experiencing homelessness were in the care of Child and Family Services as children. NDP and PC governments took away monies in trust for these children. Instead of funds being there when they aged out of care, there was nothing. Can you imagine being sent to a homeless shelter as a present on your 18th birthday?

Money stolen from children in CFS care should be returned. Many would no longer be homeless. NDP and PC governments have undervalued public health. Lead exposure in earl y childhood is a risk factor for homelessness. Children must be screened early in life to prevent health and social issues resulting from lead poisoning. Helping our friends on the street experiencing homelessness is possible. In England, a survey last autumn found 4,300 people sleeping rough. March 26th, after COVID arrived, Britain's government told local authorities to move homeless people into appropriate accommodation by the end of the week.

The official target ending rough sleeping by 2024 shifted in the blink of an eye to a goal of three days. By April 10th, more than 1,000 homeless in London were in hotel rooms, and all over England those on the street decreased from 4,300 to between five and six hundred. We have the power to act. We must act. Thank you. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Is there leave of the House to revert back to tabling of reports? Madam Speaker: Is there leave of the House to revert back to tabling of reports? [Agreed] TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Ralph Eichler (Minister of Economic Development and Training): It's my pleasure to table Communities Economic Development Fund second quarter financial statements for 2020-2021. ORAL QUESTIONS Second Wave of COVID-19 Pandemic Request to Hire Front-Line Workers Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Absurd and outrageous. That's what some everyday Manitobans are already saying about the Premier's call for volunteers today, and I would just say, you know, things are going pretty badly for you when Manitobans are mad at you for asking them to volunteer.

Again, asking Manitobans to volunteer–it sounds like a good thing when you first hear about it, until you remember that the person asking you to volunteer is the same guy who fired everybody. This is a Premier who laid off 10,000 people during the first wave of the pandemic. This is a Premier who cut 500 nursing positions. Again, after all those thousands of Manitobans pushed out of work, the Premier is now asking Manitobans to step up with free labour. We know we're not going to get through this pandemic on the cheap. Will the Premier just commit today to finally hiring some front-line health-care workers? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, things must be pretty bad for the opposition, Madam Speaker, when they have to make things up every day, when they have to resort to trying to frighten Manitobans already quite rightly worried when we're in the middle of a pandemic. But then again, there's alw ays, in every community project of any kind that I've ever participated in, and there have been a few, there's always somebody sitting over on the side, acting like they know everything, telling everybody else what to

520 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 do but never carried a board or put a nail in it, that never did any work. Just an expert, you know, that knows everything. Madam Speaker, the member doesn't know everything. For example, he doesn't know that we hired 1,300 nurses over the last year. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of t he Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, what Manitobans are worried about is having a Premier who doesn't appear to understand the basics of fighting a pandemic.

It was just yesterday in this Chamber where the Premier said that preparing for the second wave would amount to idiocy. That's a direct quote. He said that preparing for the second wave was idiocy. When asked several times to admit that that was a mistake to say that, especially during a pandemic, the Premier instead chose to double down in a committee of this House and say that investing in contact tracing and investing in expanding testing capacity during the summer in order to prepare Manitobans for the second wave was, of course, idiocy.

Now, instead of making those preparations, this Premier decided to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in this ready, set, go billboard campaign. Will he now admit that that was a mistake, and he should instead be hiring front-line health-care workers? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member continues along the same line, Madam Speaker: the expert sitting up on the side not doing any of the work, none of the heavy lifting, just an expert who doesn't help. In fact, he hurts. And I was responding yesterday to the member's continued suggestion that asymptomatic people should go for tests.

That's what he suggested in the summer; he seems to want to continue with that fallacious argument. That people who don't have symptoms should go and block the line for the people who do would be idiocy. What I was referring to and I'll continue to refer to it as such: the NDP leader was calling – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –for asymptomatic testing, as a non- expert, not -doctor of medicine, Madam Speaker, while Dr. Brent Roussin, who is–by the way–a doctor, was cautioning against it and said asymptomatic testing was dangerous and it most important to test individuals who have symptoms.

So I'll stick up for Dr. Roussin, and the member can be the expert criticizing him. Madam Speaker: The honourable member –the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, there are more than 200 doctors who have signed an open letter to the Premier and this Health Minister saying th at what they're doing so far isn't enough and they need to dramatically increase the scale of their investments and their interventions.

The Premier and this Health Minister, they always want to compare Manitoba to the worst jurisdictions out there when it comes to COVID and say that, oh, it was unavoidable, we couldn't have done any better. Why don't they try and show us some leadership and compare us to–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –those jurisdictions that are having success. Why n ot take a lesson from New Zealand? Why not take a lesson from Australia, where aggressive targeted interventions made a real difference?

Instead, we have a First Minister who stood in this Chamber yesterday and said that those targeted interventions, according to him, there is no scientific basis for them. Well, I would refer back to the 200 doctors who suggest otherwise. Will the Premier listen to the science? Will he listen to the experts and invest in front-line health care so we can get through the pandemic? Mr. Pallister: Before COVID hit us, we were investing, this year alone, $648 million more in health care than the NDP ever did.

Now, Madam Speaker, the member who stands in this place today as a imaginary expert–self-appointed–over on the side and talks about listening to experts, appointed himself an expert in the summer and contradicted Dr. Brent Roussin, who is an expert. So when it comes to listening to experts, we'll listen to real experts, not the pretend, fake experts. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question.

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 521 Health Spending During Pandemic Provincial Government's Record Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Shall we talk about the lack of investments in health care then, Madam Speaker? Here we are in the second wave of the pandemic and too many nurses, too many health-care aides still don't have access to life-saving protective equipment. Too many front -line health -care workers are still asking for reinforcements to join them at the bedside so that we could have adequate capacity in our hospitals.

Now, of course, this government likes to claim that they're doing something on health care, but we see, according to freedom of information, that it's actually another thing. The funding letters that they sent out to the health regions this year didn't have any new money in them, didn't say that there was increased funds to fight the pandemic; all that it said was keep your receipts. They have to keep their receipts every year, Mad am Speaker. It sounds like this government did absolutely nothing to reward new and allocate new expenditures to help us get through the pandemic.

When will this government stop trying to get through the pandemic on the cheap, and when will they provide resources for health care in Manitoba? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, the member speaks about best practices and then demonstrates some of the worst practices in his conduct and his comments, Madam Speaker. He misrepresents the facts again. I wi ll say, this government's invested, before COVID, Madam Speaker, $648 million budgeted this year more than the NDP ever did for health care.

The difference is we listened to the experts when we target the money to achieve better outcomes, and that's what we're focused on doing now and that's what we'll continue to focus on. * (13:50) When the member disparages our front -line people, our advisers –and he does that again today –I tell him he's wrong. Investments are being made, and they're being made in a focused way. Our testing has quadrupled over the last two months, Madam Speaker. Our procurement has us having six months of available–in almost every category, and more than a year in many other categories of supplies.

When that was a significant issue some months ago, it is not now. ICU planning, Madam Speaker, has proceeded through the summer, as has every aspect of planning and preparedness led by real health experts who are part of Team Manitoba. And I encourage the member to get on board with the team. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: You know, that government press release that said they only reactivated the incident command structure yesterday seems to contradict in a very direct way any of the bluster that we hear from the Premier today.

But when we refer to the facts at hand, the funding letters that were sent to the regional health authorities by this government, by this Cabinet, again, what we see is that there's no news on how many additional investments in intensive -care-unit beds will be coming. There's no additional investments for pro - tective equipment. There's no resources to hire more health-care aides or people to run diagnostic tests. All we see is a vague direction to keep their receipts. We know that as we stare down a potential crisis in intensive -care units across Manitoba that new investments are needed.

When will the Premier face the facts and allocate those resources to life-saving medical treatment? Mr. Pallister: Well, it's clear, again, that the member is desiring to be on the side of COVID rather than on the side of fighting COVID. Madam Speaker, it seems to me that the member has failed to understand what involves an incident command structure is invoked, and it–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Pallister: –apparently is something he fails to understand.

So you'd do well to listen and try to elevate his level of understanding, because incident command structure is brought into place when we have a lock - down. And they were, and they are again. But we didn't have a lockdown for six months. Instead, we had a provincial respiratory virus steering committee comprised of many of the same people, who proceeded to work very, very hard all summer on preparatory work on testing, bringing it up, procurement, activating it, ICU planning, achieving major progress in every respect in planning throughout the entire summer.

522 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 Madam Speaker, the member fails to understand the basics of the organizati onal structure of the response and can't even get a three -word slogan properly recreated in this House. It's called Ready. Safe. Grow. And it's the safety the member ignores as he makes his comments. He endangers Manitoba's efforts. Madam Speaker: The h onourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, you know, I realize the Premier, his full day is trying to convince his Minister of Finance (Mr.

Fielding) that the QAnon conspiracy is not real, but he still needs to be able to find time to bolster health care. Again, here in Manitoba the provincial health authorities were told this in their funding letters, which I will table for the Premier, that not only were there new investments not on the way, not only were new ICU beds not coming, but also–and I quote here– any organization that may experience cash or liquidity challenges should report such instances immediately. Basically, hey, if you run out of money, here's the number to call. Also, by the way, we think you're probably going to run out of money.

That doesn't sound like a government that is focused on health care or fighting the pandemic. When will this Premier step up with the necessary investments to keep Manitobans safe and defeat the pandemic? Mr. Pallister: Greater investments than ever before, spiked up dramatically during this period of unprecedented challenge for our province, and not really helped at all by self -appointed experts on the other side of the House, Madam Speaker, who criticize public health officials and who criticize their decisions–in fact, contradict them. Dr.

Tam said it's important to test the right people at the right time in the right place, and she complimented the strategies of going hard on making sure testing was available, Madam Speaker, for those who have symptoms. That's what we focused on doing, while the member opposite is contradicting our leading health experts and advising asymptomatic people to go and get tested. When will he stop, Madam Speaker? Should they go and get tested today? Should they go again tomorrow? Should they go every single day? That's what he's suggesting.

He is endangering our plans in this way, that he is contradicting science and well- studied leaders in our health-care field. And, Madam Speaker, I'd encourage him not to do that. I'd encourage him to get on the team and help us fight COVID rather than trying to serve his partisan goals as he does. Personal-Care Homes Pandemic Funding Plan MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, personal -care homes don't have what they need to provide safety to staff and residents. That's what staff are saying and that's what families are saying.

The Pallister government should have laid out a comprehensive and funded plan months ago for these facilities to increase staffing and personal protective equipment. Instead their message is keep your receipts. That's not a plan for government–for what government will actually pay for. Our personal -care homes have no certainty that they will be paid back for what they actually need. That's not leadership. Why is the minister nickel and diming personal - care homes in the midst of a pandemic? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Another false assertion from–by the member of Union Station, who has continued to put false statements on the record day after day after day in this House. The fact of the matter is, Madam Speaker, that even at Parkview Place there have been 35 new workers hired in just a matter of the last few days. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: That's still almost 30 workers short of what the WRHA has indicated they need at Parkview, but that's fine. Thank you for that update.

Madam Speaker, I'll table the Pallister government's directives and correspondence with personal-care homes. Months into the pandemic, the government was still considering how it might provide financial relief to overwhelmed PCHs. Their message: send us your receipts and we'll settle up with you at a later date. That is a complete failure. Government should have directed staffing, should have demanded appro- priate personal protective equipment, and it should

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 523 have communicated the amounts of additional funding up front, before the second wave. It's a complete collapse of leadership. Why didn't the minister have a comprehensive funded plan for personal-care homes this summer? Mr. Friesen: Madam Speaker, it's a complete collapse of credibility on that side of the House. These members have, for days and days, continued to put false statements on the record when, in fact, it's well-known that what we have done is not require personal -care homes to wait in –a whole annual year for reimbursements.

Instead, all members of this House know that those reimbursements have gone out in respect of quarter one for this year, and quarter two are under way, making sure that these personal-care homes are made whole for all the expenses that they are incurring in respect of COVID. This includes the very significant investment that we have made in respect of hundreds of these visitation shelters for personal -care homes to make sure that residents and their loved ones can continue to visit. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary.

MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, medical researchers have found that decisive action, co-ordinated central planning and funded initiatives were critical to saving lives in personal-care homes in other jurisdictions affected by COVID-19. But on the eve of the second wave here in Manitoba, the minister's message to long-term care in this province was keep your receipts and we'll consider how to settle up in the future. We are eight months into this pandemic and too many personal - care homes are falling apart. Why didn't the minister reinforce our personal - care homes when he had a chance? Mr.

Friesen: More false statements from the NDP. Madam Speaker, the facts are these: we were one of the first provinces in Cana da who created this one - worker, one -personal-care-home strategy that has kept residents and staff alive. We were quick to bring PPE into these personal -care homes. We were quick to respond and make sure that personal -care homes had the resources that they needed. We have hired staff in personal-care homes that–[interjection]–even as I give the responses, the member for Union Station continues to shout and become more and more angry.

But the facts are these, Madam Speaker: This government–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –has been responding; this government will continue to respond and put our focus on– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Friesen: –the safety and well -being of all Manitobans. * (14:00) Child-Care System KPMG Report Ms. Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): In May, the Pallister government doubled the value of their contract to $600,000 for KPMG to do a review of the child-care system.

According to government briefing notes, the president to Treasury Board authorized the significant increase to complete what they call a transformation of the child- care system in the fall of 2020. Madam Speaker, it's now November 3rd. The minister has done first reading on the bill to effect these changes, but hasn't released the legislation and she has not released the KPMG review. Why won't she show us the KPMG review? What does she have to hide? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): Very, very scary. I think Halloween is over, Madam Speaker.

But I will tell you that the reason that there is a need for a major transformation within the child-care sector, Madam Speaker, is because of the previous NDP government having neglected the child- care sector for 17 years. We have been listening to parents. We've been listening to those in the child- care sector. We know that change needs to take place. That's why we're moving forward with those changes. We'll continue to work with parents, with those in the child-care sector to make sure where they failed, we get it right. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Marcelino: KPMG has led the Pallister government's austerity agenda. Recall, they proposed cutting social housing, cutting Rent Assist and privatizing core government services. Now, under the

524 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 cover of the pandemic, the secretary to Treasury Board has authorized a doubling of the contract to KPMG to transform child care; in other words, fee increases and cuts for Manitoba families. But the minister hasn't shown the House the legislation and she won't release the bill. Will the minister release the KPMG review of child care today? Mrs. Stefanson: Certainly, this is all about why we need transformation in the child- care sector in Manitoba.

Again, it was 17 years of her previous NDP government that neglected the sector, causing huge, long wait-lists, Madam Speaker. That is not the direction that Manitobans have asked us to go in. That's why we will transform child care in Manitoba to make sure that child care is there for Manitoba families when they need it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: KPMG called for closing schools across the province and moving to a voucher system for social housing. They called for reducti ons in disability benefits.

They recommended, and this government accepted, cuts of tens of millions of dollars in supports for students. And now the secretary to Treasury Board doubled their funding to transform child care, including increased fees and cu ts for families. Why won't she let families see the KPMG child - care review? What does she have to hide? Mrs.

Stefanson: Well, again, Madam Speaker, with the litany of false accusations just put on the record by that member, I don't know where to begin, but what I will say, when it comes to child care in Manitoba we need to ensure that we have a system that is there for Manitoba families when they need it. That's why, over the course of the next number of months, we will be working with the child-care sector, we'll be working with parents to see what kind of child care they need and want and deserve for their children, and we'll make sure that that system is there for them when they need it.

Provincial Parkland Service Rotation Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, last week we presented this House with clear evidence of the Pallister government's plans to privatize our parks. Government has put out a request for proposals exploring divestment –code word for privatization– and we also showed that the Pallister government intends to sell off park cottage lots. But this is just one part of the government's plan. Earlier this year the Pallister government began, in their own words, to significantly reduce services available in Whiteshell Provincial Park.

Why is the Pallister government cutting park services? Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Conservation and Climate): It always gives me pleasure to speak about our beautiful parks that we have here in this wonderful province. I think that the opposition has been confused on a number of fronts, especially on this topic. They're equating selling of any properties or even looking at private investment as equal to privatization of entire jurisdictions. That's the equivalent of saying that buying a hom e in Winnipeg means that the public parks and city parks are no longer available to the public.

It's ridiculous, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, according to the briefing note we received through FIPPA, this reduction in services is part of the Pallister government's cost-saving plan. Levels of service have already been reduced for waste and recycling collection in the Whiteshell and I've previously shared with the minister my concern. The reduced service means much longer drives for cottagers and campers to remove waste and has created access concerns for folks with disabilities.

But we know this is just the beginning. The minister intends divestment of our park assets and her government has already directed the department to develop a plan to sell off cottage lots in our provincial parks. Why is the minister reducing services and selling off park land? Mrs. Guillemard: I appreciate the question from the member. Clearly, we have much to discuss because there's much that I would like to clarify for the member. Her understanding of the dealings within our department

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 525 is quite lacking, and I have offered her many opportunities to me et with me and to provide those questions and I'd be happy to fill her in. Madam Speaker, this gives me an opportunity to talk about a number of our private investments within our public parks that actually have improved services for all users and all vis itors. For example, we have Asessippi park, the ski and mountain bike facilities and additional camping opportunities that is a private investment and run.

We have Birds Hill park and a Folk Festival investment in the –investment in additional facilities that has really improved the experience of all visitors to the area– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms. Naylor: Perhaps the minister does not understand that QP is an excellent opportunity to actually answer some of these questions which I'm still waiting for answers to most of what I've asked over the last two weeks.

Our parks should not be for sale, yet the minister has put parks under review, exploring selling off assets and making plans to sell off cottage lots. And now the minister's reducing service levels in provincial parks such as the Whiteshell. Perhaps the minister doesn't understand, but provincial parks are not profit machines. They are generational investments for the good of all Manitobans. Will she back off her plans to cut and privatize our provincial parks? Mrs. Guillemard: Just because the member wants to say and repeat something over and over doesn't make it true.

Madam Speaker, as I was saying, in Falcon Lake we have a golf course that had a $1-million clubhouse there's–redeveloped. That's private investment. And I will note that as I'm listing a lot of this private investment and privately run facilities and activities for all park users, a lot of these initiatives happened under her own NDP government. Why now are they afraid of private investments? Premier's Legislative Plans Priorities During Pandemic Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): It is shocking but sadly not surprising just how secretive and underhanded the Premier is currently acting.

The Premier makes every attempt to stifle and suppress legitimate criticism. We know how he feels about that. * (14:10) Whether it's hiding legislation from the public or undermining the freedom of information legislation or criminalizing protest, to bury terrible and regressive bills in a massive omnibus legislation, these are the actions of a Premier who refuses to listen. Will the Premier stop his plan to ram through his regressive agenda in the middle of a pandemic, Madam Speaker? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): I remember watching with some amazement some video that the member posted of herself standing with blockaders on a rail line in Atlantic Canada; expect the protest was not demonstrating social distancing. Neither was she. This was to blockade supplies getting along main rail lines to northern communities and places in Manitoba and elsewhere. I remember the member doing that. I remember thinking, I wonder if the taxpayer paid for that. Maybe the member would like to respond to that. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms.

Fontaine: Well, Madam Speaker, it's becoming more and more clear just how desperate the Premier is and how he's using the cover of a pandemic to push through a regressive agenda that he refuses to reveal to Manitobans. We know he tried ramming through legislation last April, when Manitoba was caught up in the first wave of COVID -19, to raise hydro rates and undermine families. And n ow he's doing it again, Madam Speaker. He's abusing every democratic norm to force through hydro rates just when the pandemic is rising yet again. The Premier needs to stop.

Will he stop his plans to ram through his regressive agenda in the middle of the worst pandemic Manitoba has arguably ever seen? Miigwech.

526 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 Mr. Pallister: Gee whiz, Madam Chair, gee whiz. I– all I can say to the member is if it's the worst pandemic we've ever seen, I'd agree with her. So why was she organizing a blockade, not in At lantic Canada but right here in the Legislature, all spring and avoiding debating and promoting the issues that would have helped Manitobans through that pandemic? There's a contradiction in her comments, Madam Speaker. It's pretty obvious.

And the fact of the matter is that the member's vitriol could be replaced by being part of working towards the best interests of Manitobans in a time where they need help, but instead she choses –she chooses the hurtful personal attack line, and I'm just the guy that can handle it. I'd encourage her, though, to get with the facts, and the facts are these: she blocked this Legislature to obstruct the work of it at a time when Manitobans were facing the biggest threat in terms of a pandemic that they had faced in decades. That's the fact. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary.

Ms. Fontaine: Suppressing protest and refusing to reel the–reveal the content of legislation will radically change education, child care and justice for Manitobans, raising Manitoba Hydro rates for regular families–all of this in the middle of a pandemic –that is what the Premier is doing. That's the mark of a Premier who thinks there is one set of rules for himself and one for everybody else. Manitobans want leaders to be fully focused on fighting the pandemic, but this Premier clearly has other priorities, Madam Speaker. It's just egregious and wrong.

Will the Premier stop his plans to ram through his agenda in the middle of a global pandemic? Mr. Pallister: Madam Speaker, I have stood by the rights of protesters to protest throughout my time in public service and before, and I will continue to. What is egregious is when the member conducts herself in a manner that disrespects those rights and freedoms, and I've watched this member do that.

I watched her do it by trying to shout down women–Indigenous women–testifying at a House of Commons committee on the issues facing –the challenges facing Indigenous women, when she was working for the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs. I watched her lead the shout -down to try to silence Indigenous women. That, Madam Speaker, doesn't demonstrate anything but a crisis of principle on the part of the member. And I would encourage the member that, really, this is an opportuni ty for her to rise above her own personal vitriol and join–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Pallister: –in the challenge, Madam Speaker, join in the challenge we must all face together of standing up for Manitobans, their freedoms and rights and their best interests, as well. First Nations Communities Request for Pandemic Support Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Once again, today, the Premier has complained –has claimed his government is powerless to deal with COVID. In a press conference he said, quote: All we can do is our absolute best to react and prepare to react. But was does the government's own Office of Disaster Management say? I table it.

It talks about prevention; it talks about preparedness. Now, while First Nations chiefs have done an outstanding job of keeping their communities safe, this Premier's recklessness and incompetence has exposed them to pandemic. Will the Premier actually step up and commit to resources, personnel to ensure that Manitoba First Nations get all the support they need to save lives, or will he do what the federal Conservatives did in H1N1 and send body bags? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, that's a nice piece of evidence, Madam Speaker, that the member cares not a whit about First Nations people, but rather is trying to frighten the hell out of them, and that's so sad and so disappointing. I have a call with the Prime Minister this afternoon to reiterate our concerns. One of them is about the resources we need to get rapid testing in greater numbers to northern communities. We've already advanced as much as we could to northern communities.

More, I hope, will be coming in short order, but I would just encourage the member, these are horrible memories for Indigenous people, it's true. They are horrible memories for all of us who care about Indigenous people in northern communities. I don't think trying to score political points using body bags as a reference point is a very smart thing to do or a fair thing to do in this House. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order.

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 527 Just a caution to the member on language, and I'm encouraging everybody to be careful in the words that they choose to put forward on the record. The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. COVID-19 Testing Facilities Access to PPE and Rapid Testing Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): Testing has been a huge problem, and so is getting people results of those tests. Just as nurses in hospitals are being denied access to N95 masks, so are people working in COVID testing facilities.

I table a poster of the required PPE for testing sites, where workers spend their days face to face in close contact with people who have COVID–no N95s. Yet, right now film crews operating in Manitoba are tested two to three times a week with rapid tests that are available in hours, including the film crews who are working right now in this building. Why don't people who work in testing clinics have access to PPE and rapid testing right now? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Again, Madam Speaker, sadly, when there are genuine fears out there, the member introduces phoney fear to the mix for some undefinable reason.

We have N95 masks in surplus at this point in time. We're fortunate, too, because of the diligent work of our team of civil servants and led by our Health Minister and by our–the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) in his ministerial capacity, and I compliment both of them for this. We also, Madam Speaker, have ramped up testing significantly, as the member knows, and that adds to requirements that follow in terms of notification. He's quite right to point that out because that follow -up work is very important, and this is part of the reason that we did ask for Manitobans' help, for volunteers to come forward.

There's a surge in need right now and we're asking Manitobans–they always have–to step up and join with us, join with our public service, work together. We're all Manitobans and I'd encourage the member to get on the team. Children Aging Out Of CFS Care Call for Housing Support Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, it is cold and life-threatening to be homeless in Winnipeg in winter, especially during the COVID pandemic. Special allowance money unjustly taken from children in care by the Province has made it worse. More than half of those experiencing homelessness today were children in care.

Instead of sending children to homeless shelters when they age out of care, the Province should return the money stolen from these children. When will the government return the money to these children so that fewer will be homeless, and when will the government act to provide hotel rooms for those experiencing homelessness so they don't have to sleep where they are at greater risk of COVID-19? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Families): I want to thank the member for the question, and it gives me an opportunity to point out that those children that were aging out of care, we are –we put more resources there to ensure that they don't age out of care and that they have the resources that they need to move on and get the housing and get the supports that they need in a community.

So we are doing that. * (14:20) With respect to the other incident –or, the other issue that the member mentioned, i n terms of the children's special allowance, Madam Speaker, it was the previous–it was the practice of the previous NDP government that put that into place, and we have ended that practice to ensure that children in care get the resources that they need in order to get them back with their families, reunited with their families and to be able to stay with their families. That's the important thing here. Threats to Moose Population Mitigating Population Decline Mr.

Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): It's hard to be a moose is a document that has received a great deal of attention recently. Can the M inister of Agriculture and Resource Development share with the House what the main messages are and why it is important that all Manitobans take the time to read thi s important document? Hon.

Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Agriculture and Resource Development): I thank the member from Swan River for asking that question, and he certainly– I appreciate his passion for the moose population and I certainly appreciate and acknowledge his knowledge of the Duck Mountain and Porcupine mountain area. He has a vast knowledge of that.

528 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 There's critical threats to the moose populations right now: everything from parasites to predation, changing landscape, climate change and, of c ourse, illegal harvest. And with this, we published an–a brochure that–it's called moose–Hard to Be a Moose in a Changing World. And I encourage everyone to have a look at that short document. It's really very explanatory. Madam Speaker, it's important to realize we only have one moose population and we need one plan for the moose.

COVID-19 Case at Keeyask Generating Station Spread Prevention Across Northern Manitoba Ms. Danielle Adams (Thompson): Madam Speaker, yesterday MKO and the four Keeyask-partnering First Nations sat down with Manitoba Hydro to discuss the current outbreak situation at Keeyask and to get details on the next steps and what plans are in place to get the situation under control. Confirmed cases continue to rise. Sadly, it appears there is–no plan exists, and initiatives could be taken by this government to keep employees and neighbouring First Nation communities safe.

The minister's failure to address the situation in an urgent matter will not only lead to terrible consequences for northern and First Nations communities, but the entire province's health system. Will the minister declare an outbreak at Keeyask and immediately move it to code red? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Crown Services): Again, the health and safety of the Keeyask employees and the surrounding communities has been and will continue to be our No. 1 concern, Madam Speaker. You know, Madam Speaker, Manitoba Hydro continues to work closely with senior public health officials to ensure we get it right.

And that's why–I'm not sure what call the member from Thompson's on but that's why, effective today, Keeyask is in code red. Madam Speaker: I would just point out to members that are on the virtual component of our proceedings to indicate that no exhibits are allowed. Even though you're not in the House, but–you are still part of the proceedings, and exhibits are not allowed at any level, whether it's here in the House or on Zoom. So I'd like to point that out for all members. Time for oral questions has expired. Speaker's Ruling Madam Speaker: And I have a ruling for the House.

On March 2020, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Ms. Fontaine) raised a matter of privilege regarding the lack of access to the government's educa tion review and report and claimed that this impacted the ability of the member to perform duties of reviewing government legislation and communicating information to constituents. The honourable member further contended that the government ministers were providing misleading information to the House.

At the conclusion of the remarks, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader moved, and I quote, that this matter be moved to an all-party committee for consideration. End quote. The honourable Government House Leader (Mr. Goertzen) and the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard) also spoke to the matter of privilege, which was then taken under advisement. I thank all honourable members for their advice to the Chair. There are two conditions that must be satisfied in order for the matter raised to be ruled in order as a prime facie case of privilege.

First, was the issue raised at the earliest opportunity; and second, has sufficient evidence been provided to demonstrate that the privileges of the House have been breached in order to warrant putting the matter to the House. Regarding the first condition, the Official Opposition House Leader offered her opinion that the earliest opportunity does not mean the next moment in time when a member has the ability to speak as, in her view, members need time to consult relevant authorities or study various experts on the matter. Her opinion is not in alignment with the advice given by procedural authorities.

Joseph– [interjection]–order, please. Joseph Maingot states on page 260 of the second edition of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada that, and I quote, it must be raised at the earliest opportunity. Matters relating to the rights, immunities and privileges of members of the House are of such importance that the regular business of the House is put aside so that members may immediately discuss the matter. Accordingly, the other condition for raising a question of privilege is that it must be raised at the first opportunity. Members have been thwarted in initiating privilege proceedings because of not

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 529 bringing the matter forward at the first opportunity. End quote. Bosc and Gagnon advise on page 145 of the third edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice that, and I quote, the matter of privil ege to be raised in the House must have recently occurred and must call for the immediate action of the House. Therefore, the member must satisfy the Speaker that he or she is bringing the matter to the House as soon as practicable after becoming aware of the situation.

When a member has not fulfilled this important requirement, the Speaker has ruled that the matter is not a prima facie case of privilege. End quote. If there was some contextual reason provided, such as needing to wait to see words in Hansard, past Speakers have taken this into consideration. However, the question of timeliness still needs to be an important criteria. There was no contextual justification provided regarding the issue of timeliness and being raised at the earliest opportunity, so I must find that the test of earliest available opportunity has not been met.

The honourable Official Opposition House Leader (Ms. Fontaine) also identified that, in her view, that the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and ministers providing misleading information to the House. But, as Joseph Maingot states on page 241 of Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, and I quote, to allege that a member has misled the House is a matter of order, not privilege. End quote.

In addition, previous Manitoba Speakers, including Speakers Walding, Phillips, Rocan, Dacquay, Hickes and Reid, have all ruled that in order to prove allegations that a member deliberately misled the House, it is necessary to prove that there was clear intent to mislead by knowingly making statements that would mislead. Therefore, the burden of proof is placed on the member to demonstrate this by absolute proof, including a statement of intent to intentionally mislead the House by the member so accused. Showing that some facts are at variance is not providing proof of intent to mislead.

Also, in the raising of the matter of privilege, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader advised that the privileges of the member had been breached because of lack of access to the educational review and report , which had the potential to impact information that would be shared with constituents. It is worth noting for the House that privilege only provides protection for proceedings or actions in Parliament and does not provide protection for an outside activit y such as communications with constituents.

In assessing the comments made by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, the crux of the argument appears to be that the official opposition did not have access to an education review and report being prepared by the Department of Education. I would note for the House that, at the time of the raising of the matter of privilege, the report had not been publicly released and nor was there any official information advising that the review and report had even been completed and released.

While the honourable member may wish to have a copy of the report, parliamentary privilege cannot compel a review to be completed and reported on and publicly released. It would be a different situation if the report had been released and there was a refusal to table or share the report with the House, but that is not the circumstance faced in this instance.

I would therefore respectfully rule that the matter raised does not fulfill the criteria of a prima facie case of privilege. * (14:30) As a final comment, I would note that in the raising of this and other matters of privilege, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader has made the comment that her privileges have been molested. Although there is a heading in House of Commons Procedure and Practice that reads freedom from obstruction, interference, intimidation and molestation, this refers to attempts to obstruct, impede, interfere, intimidate or molest members in a physical sense.

I would respectfully ask the honourable member to be mindful of this, as her use of the word is giving the impression that she has been improperly interfered with in a physical sense. I hope this will never happen to her or any honourable member, and I would ask that care is taken in the use of the word. * * * Madam Speaker: Petitions? The honourable member for River Heights. The member, please unmute his mic. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I won't be reading a petition today, thanks. Madam Speaker: Does the member for Tyndall Park (Ms. Lamoureux) have a petition?

530 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 I'm in–I have been indicated, too, that there –that is a no, so I will move into grievances –or, are there any other petitions? I will move, then, to grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Ke lvin Goertzen (Government House Leader):. On government –or on House business, pursuant to rule 33(7), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one put forward by the honourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Lagimodiere).

The title of the resolution is Inclusion of Sergeant Tommy Prince on the Five Dollar Bill. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that – pursuant to rule 33(7), it has been announced that the private member's re solution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Selkirk. The title of the resolution is Inclusion of Sergeant Tommy Prince on the Five Dollar Bill. * * * Mr.

Goertzen: Could you please canvass the House for leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today only so that the Department of Economic Development and Training will be considered in room 254 instead of Executive Council from 4 'til 5 p.m. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today only so that the Department of Economic Development and Training will be considered in room 254 instead of Executive Council from 4 'til 5 p.m. Agreed? [Agreed] Mr. Goertzen: Could you please resolve into Committee of Supply.

Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Estimates. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Greg Nesbitt): Will the Committee of Supply please come to orde r. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates of Executive Council. As previously announced, as there is only one resolution, the discussion will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I just want to begin with a logistical question more than anything because I hadn't had the ability to co-ordinate this offline. But I understand that the Premier has an important forum –phone call in about an hour, and, you know, I do hope that that call leads to some good things for all Manitobans.

So I just wanted to check in and –because I do want to respect the First Minister's time and ensure that he has adequate prep time for the call, so would 45 minutes of questions here provide enough opportunity for him to set up for that appointment coming up? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Yes, thanks very much to the Opposition Leader for that understanding, and I apologize for this interfering with our Estimates process. It's just –seems unavoidable.

In any case, I share his concerns that we make some progress on a couple of fronts for sure, and I hope to be able to share some positive news with our –with my colleagues as early as the next couple days on a couple of fronts, some issues of–I know that we all support, that we want to see addressed, some federal commitments that had been made that have yet to be–things like that. So we appreciate–I appreciate your understanding. I'll try to–it's officially 4:15.

I do–I would like to– if I could have a couple of minutes to get away from the hustle and bustle and tension the Opposition Leader's about to cause me, to calm down a little bit before I take it all out on the Prime Minister, that'd be good. I guess, seriously, if I could–I'll try to go as close as I can to 4:00, if that's okay with my colleagues. And if I could, Mr. Chair, I neglected to do something yesterday and I want to address that. I didn't share with colleagues who is here in the room with me . Obviously, we had some limits to our technology. I wanted to do that.

I have the Clerk of the Executive Council and Cabinet secretary here, David McLaughlin. I have the associate clerk of the Legislature and reg . affairs and secretary to the Regulatory Accountability Committee, who has the longest title in government's history, Eliot Sims, with me. I also have my special

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 531 assistant, Braeden Jones, here, and, in addition, Ryan Klos is here, who is the assistant deputy minister for central finance and, as w ell, the member for the Interlake has joined us here in the room and is with us at this time. So I hope that'll work for everyone, and again, I say thank you to all of my colleagues for accom - modating the bit of a challenge here that we have today. Mr. Kinew: All right, fair enough, and we'll just watch for the clock to strike four. Just while we're on the subject of staff that works with the Premier (Mr.

Pallister), could I ask the Premier to undertake to provide an org chart of the staff who work in Executive Council? Mr. Pallister: Yes, certainly I will do that. I will undertake to do that. I appreciate–and I know the Opposition Leader didn’t–and this isn't a criticism at all, but doesn't perhaps know how difficult it was to get information like that from a previous premier. I'll just say this: Every year, I've undertaken to the best of my ability to provide all the information the member's asked for, and I’ll keep doing that, and most certainly, I’ll get him that organizational chart.

I don’t have everything that I would need to give him right here, or I would table it, I guess. But I can get him that in a reasonable period of time, I hope, and I'd be happy to do that. Mr. Kinew: I thank the Premier for that undertaking, and maybe we’ll start with a little less ten sion at the outset of today. Just returning to the subject of the phone call, I'm just wondering if the Premier can tell us some of his goals and what does he hope to get out of this call with the Prime Minister this afternoon? Mr.

Pallister: It's like–reminds me of when I hitch- hiked to university and back for a few years there, this technique we have to use to signal each other. In any case, yes, it's –the call is centred on COVID-related issues, as the members might expect, although I do use the opportunity whenever I have it, in speaking with the Prime Minister and with our federal colleagues, to emphasize some other issues as well, and I may use the opportunity to present some of those. I will, for the interests of members, certainly share with the PM our unanimous resolution today.

I think that he needs to know that this doesn't need to be–this support -for-health-care-across-the-country opportunity for his government doesn't need to be a partisan issue and, you know, it's supported by us here unanimously, with some absences duly noted. That being said, it's also more than a sentiment. It's been adopted supportively by governments across Canada—and the territories, I might add, shouldn't forget the territories in this. And I would also say that opposition leaders–Mr.

Singh has come out strongly in support of additional resources for the provinces, the official opposition leader Erin O'Toole has said the same thing, and so we know that the opposition parties are ready to step up and are supportive of our shared goals of strengthened federal support for health care. This does–this is a critical issue, and it's one that I will use today's discussion, as I have over a number of years now, as an opportunity to reinforce that message and also the urgent and compelling need for us to have a meeting now. This is tough in COVID, right? We all know.

You know, knowing some of the MLAs whose faces I'm seeing here have a reputation for working pretty hard in their constituencies already, some of them very new. And they've done that in previous roles. As I look, the member for Fort Garry, (Mr. Wasyliw), I know that he was involved in the school board, worked for many years, as was the member for Wolseley (Ms. Naylor). In terms of community involvement, the membe r for Southdale (Ms. Gordon) has demonstrably made efforts.

But in this COVID period, we all know that it's extremely challenging, right, to have gatherings of any size, clearly now that's impossible. * (15:10) And so, I'm concerned that, with respect to the proposal the premiers unanimously have agreed on, and I've asked for some time to be met by the federal government that –of a national meeting to discuss health care funding, that it's going to be difficult to have an in-person meeting, I know that.

And I'm worried in a way that these types of structures, as good as they are, as good as the tech is and so on, just aren't always as good as a good, old- fashioned face-to-face meeting. I think probably the members will know what I mean who have worked so hard to have those in their ridings, not just constituency work but consultation on a broader - based level. Really an important thing to do.

532 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 So, I cannot read my clerk's writing, and he's handing me a note, I'm going to hand it back to him. I'll just share that with my colleagues here. So, there are just some thoughts. I think before this COVID thing hit us, we all knew that health care was a top priority. We all knew that. Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And now we know it's certainly in spades. And so, any weaknesses in federal-provincial partnerships are demonstrably exacerbated by the realities of what we're having to face now.

We've got hundreds of thousands of people across the country waiting for procedure s that have been delayed. We all know it. I certainly get correspondence all the time, and expect my colleagues do too, from folks who've had their surgery delayed, whether –it could be any number of things, and it's painful and it's hard for people to suff er that way. Those wait times have grown so much over the year or so. I'll leave it to you, Mr. Chair. I know I'm at the end of my time. Mr. Kinew: Thank you, Mr. Chair and I thank the Premier (Mr. Pallister) for that answer.

As we all know, the situation in Winnipeg, in particular, but Manitoba generally, has become quite dire with respect to the impact of COVID, both in terms of new case counts but also in terms of what's happening inside the hospitals. And we've heard many concerning statements made by physicians and people who work in health care who are warning about what is to come in our hospitals over the next, you know, week or two.

So I'm just wondering, with that sort of situation in mind, can the Premier share, like, what sort of asks to respond to this immediate surge that we're seeing, this immediate second -wave impact from COVID, will he be asking the Prime Minister for? Mr. Pallister: Yes. No. Thank you for the question. Obviously, I'll start with what I hope is the beginning of greater hope for people and that would be the vaccine. National vaccine preparedness is really, really critical, and we need a strategy nationally on this. And I'll dive into this a little bit because this is really, really important.

We've got so many vulnerable pe ople out there who are praying every day for a vaccine to come, people whose families are so afraid. And the research is going on and, I mean, I can't say I'm on it every day, but I certainly am on it with regard to talking to Dr. Roussin and others in our medical advisory team that are giving us progress reports. And we're all hopeful of a vaccine's development, but there are challenges with this, obviously, not just in the research side but let's go ahead for a minute and assume, as Dr.

Tam has speculated on a vaccine's availability as recently as last Friday and said she anticipates there may be vaccine available to the tune of, I think she said, 2 to 3 per cent capacity, well, by the end of January, if I remember right, and I'm sorry I don't have the ne ws

article here, I'd share it with colleagues, but you know, 2 to 3 per cent availability, okay. So, imagine that in your constituency, that 2 or 3 per cent of your constituents might be able to get the vaccine. That could be chaotic, to put it mildly. What we need to do here as a country is make sure that we're very, very clear, very quickly, very soon about what the criteria are for vaccine availability, because there's a lot of fear out there and it's not confined to 2 or 3 per cent of the population.

W e're not going to edify the fear by just making a vaccine available in 2 or 3 per cent of your constituents, and we know that. And so the reality is that currently we have to have those who are at highest risk and those on the front lines as a priority. I think all of us would concur with that. But then what happens as more becomes available? Then what's your criteria? Is it a– what's the federal government going to propose?

What I wouldn't –what I would not want to see, given that the federal government has basically prohibited us, blocked us –water, please–that the federal government has–there's–here–sorry, Braeden– right here –sorry, guys –that the federal government has blocked our ability to order vaccines and rapid vaccines. We all know that and there are arguments for that. I'm not a fan of that but that's what they've done. They have to also take the ownership of the criteria.

They can consult with provincial officials all they want, but what we can't have here is a bunch of provinces with different crite ria going out there saying, well, we're doing it this way in Yorkton and we're going to do it this way in Russell. This is a recipe for confusion, potential tragedy. So I don't want to overemphasize this. I don't think I can.

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 533 It's really, really critical that we have a national strategy for vaccine availability that everybody can understand. It's not going to make everybody happy, but the fact of the matter is everybody will know that's the rules, that's the way it's going to be, coast-to-coast- to-coast. And I think this is something other premiers have agreed with, that we need to communicate to the federal government. And I need–I think it needs to get out there fairly quickly so people understand this is how it goes, this is how it's going to go.

Sure, we all sincerely hope there's a vaccine for everyone and not everyone will want a vaccine. We know there are some people who don't believe in vaccines in our province, but most certainly some estimates say 65 to 75 per cent of people would want a vaccine in Manitoba. If that's the case, having a 3 per cent availability is a recipe for real problems, unless we make it extremely clear right away who is going to be able to count on getting that first and then having a criteria established thereafter. Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: Thanks, Mr. Chair. So, I didn't answer every aspect.

I tried to emphasize something I care about, I guess, there for colleagues, and I hope they think about it and give us their advice and thoughts on what we should do on this one. I appreciate, always, input from our MLAs, but I will say that, I'll share with you more germane to what the Opposition Leader had just asked me about other items, as well, here in a sec. Mr. Kinew: You know, I would invite the Premier to continue.

Maybe he could also just answer: is this the sort of regular call that the Premier has –or that the Prime Minister has convened with all the first ministers across the country, or is this a one -on-one conversation that's happening today? Mr. Pallister: Yes, this one is a one-on-one, I'll share with the member, and we have had numerous one-on- ones. I want to say that I thank the Prime Minister for his willingness to have that dialogue. We have had, just for example, yes, we've had a number of premiers' calls, you know, the conference call format that you're all familiar with.

We've also had those just with premiers, clearly, as well, on an almost weekly basis during the entire time of COVID but the –but this Prime Minister has made himself available. Look, we're all strong-willed people. We wouldn't be MLAs if we weren't. And as my grandfather used to say, if two people are always in agreement, it's pretty obvious one of them ain't doing any thinking. So we're going to have disagreements. That's an honest thing and that happens. I don't agree with the Prime Minister on everything.

I'm sure he doesn't agree with me on everything, but he's been willing to have the dialogue and that's a really good thing and I congratulate him and thank him for that. And so we have had very good, I think the more– and I think it's true in most relationships–the more that you can get to understand one another, the better chance that you're going to–you don't have to fall in love with each other, but you can understand each other and have more empathy towards what the other person is trying to accomplish. I've always believed that and I think that's an important aspect of what we've tried to do.

Not just me but our entire Cabinet has endeavoured to reach out regularly and consistently to colleagues across the country, as well as experts in various fields. * (15:20) I'll say just three weeks ago we had another very productive one-on-one with the PM. It had to be. It was supposed to be face -to-face. As you colleag ues remember, we were in Ottawa. Had to be shifted at the last minute and that was –if you remember, that was for good reason. I'm not criticizing the PM for shifting it to a virtual meeting. It was a good meeting on a number of good topics.

I'll just state that was the –three days after the report came out that Erin O'Toole had COVID. Premier Legault had had a meeting with Erin O'Toole. I had had a meeting with Premier Legault. Everybody was scared. Everybody was getting–you know, monitoring symptoms or getting tested at that point in time. And so I'm defending, I guess, the Prime Minister–meeting with PM, very good; meeting with the Infrastructure Minister, very good, virtual as well. I'm looking to my clerk to remind me of the other–oh, Intergovernmental Affairs, Minister McKenna – Infrastructure.

And colleagues will all know, very likely, what some of the topics were that were raised on each of those calls and each of those meetings. In addition, we were able –I'll just elaborate on that bit because that w as a really intense–about five days, about 15 meetings in that period, plus the national event with the other premiers where we pushed for the health- care motion, which essentially

534 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 is what we supported unanimously in the House the other day. And we met wit h senior think tanks, experts, conference board, national chambers of commerce, Canadian Labour Congress. I could go on. Face-to-face meetings work better most of the time. Some day, maybe we'll get back to where we can have them. I hope so. I think we al l hope so. More frequently would be better, you know, I think, to get our points across.

On this call–back to what the Opposition Leader was just asking me about –I'm very, very concerned and we all are, I think, about the situation with respect to norther n communities and the northern communities' response, not exclusively First Nations communities– Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: –thank you, Mr. Chair –is really important.

It's a federal obligation there that we need to see addressed, and so we are very anxious to make sure that we're getting the message through to the federal government to step –frankly, step up their game in respect of First Nations supports, not exclusively on COVID either. Lab support on testing, clearly, has always been a concern on an ongoing basis since COVID began. We're concerned about the accuracy. We're concerned about the efficacy. We're concerned about the turnaround times too. And I've got about three more items I'll share with the members that we're talking about today. Mr.

Kinew: I would welcome to hear about those three additional items, but I also want to put an item on the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) radar, maybe flag it for him and do so by way of a question, which is to ask whether the Premier is going to be raising, as a contingency possibility, with the Prime Minister about potentially activating the military to assist with the pandemic response here in Manitoba. There's been a few situations in which this has been explained to me as potentially being beneficial.

You know, to build off the Premier's previous answer, in which he spoke about, you know, the COVID response in northern First Nations, if hospitals in Winnipeg are at capacity, one solution that has been proposed by some folks in health care is, you know, that the military be brought in to help with some of the local response in some of those regions. Mr. Pallister: There–can you guys hear me okay? No? Not getting through. Mr. Kinew: You can't hear me? Oh, such a great statement. We'll have to restart it all. Mr. Chairperson: We can certainly –we can hear you, First Minister.

Can you hear us? [interjection] The honourable First Minister, can you please mute your microphone? Can you please mute your microphone? They're trying to work out the technical difficulty here. Can you hear me? The honourable First Minister, can you hear me? Mr. Pallister: I do. Mr. Chairperson: Mr. Moses, this is the Chair. Can you hear us? Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Yes, I can hear you. Mr. Chairperson: Thank you. The honourable First Minister. Mr. Pallister: You guys hear me okay now? Mr. Chairperson: Yes, we can. Mr. Pallister: Now? Okay, good, thank you. Mr. Chairperson: I'll– Mr. Pallister: Thanks, Mr.

Chair, and–sorry. Mr. Chairperson: –let the Leader of the Offi cial Opposition (Mr. Kinew) finish his question. Mr. Pallister: Oh, okay, sorry. Mr. Kinew: So, he can hear us now? Okay, well– Mr. Chairperson: Yes. The Leader of the Official Opposition. Mr. Kinew: Oh, sorry. Yes, well, this is the new normal, as they say, and it kind of reminds me of my kids trying to explain TikTok to me, but c'est la vie, so we'll work along with it.

So the question I was just asking is whether the possibility of, you know, the military potentially being called into Manitoba, as a contingency –not saying, you know, that the Premier should ask for that today, but whether the Premier would just put that on the Prime Minister's radar should things, you know, turn out poorly in northern Manitoba or other regions where they may assist. Would that be a topic of discussion today?

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 535 Mr. Pallister: Well, I'd say it'd be a topic only of last resort. There's no disputing, though, that the military have lots of resources and there's precedents, clearly, here in Manitoba and elsewhere for calling upon military resources.

As recently as a few years ago, I remember throwing sandbags somewhere along the Assiniboine River with military personnel during a flood, and there's probably a lot of Manitobans who have similar memories and similar appreciation, as I do, for great people, the great men and women that work in our military, and their willingness to come here and offer their support when needed. So it's a backup.

I'd say to the member, though, that the, you know, the efforts here, of course, that we're expending on our own preventative work that would make that unnecessary, one of the resources that we hope we don't need, clearly, would be, you know, backup military people in the testing facilities or in the ICUs and things like that. And the way to prevent that, of course, is more rapid testing capacity. We know that it's a real hardship on our front -line folks when they can't get a rapid test, because they'd like to be at work.

I think of my friends who are nurses, men and women who are dedicated to the task of helping, and they're –when they get a symptom, they're very worried; they don't–so, clearly, they want to get a test, but if they go and get a test, then, you know, without rapid testing, they're waiting and they're off work a few days.

And that's been happening, as we know, on the front lines not just at ICUs or emergency rooms, but elsewhere throughout our facilities. * (15:30) So rapid testing is a big deal and we have been pushing–as you know we did–and this is –again, I worry sometimes that we try to make a lot of things partisan, and I'm as guilty as anybody or worse, but I still think we try to make a lot of things partisan on health care that we shouldn't. This is not a partisan statement. The feds wanted to co-ordinate stock, so they said–do y ou remember back in the spring when we were having trouble getting PPE?

The feds said, well, don't worry; we'll look after it. Well, it's a good thing that we didn't believe that, and it's a good thing we took immediate steps to go and work really, really hard to generate our own PPE. And we took those steps and it ended up, well, over half of our PPE came from Manitoba -made product, and a lot of it, also additional product beyond that, was procured through Manitoba connections, not through the feds. This is –again, I don't want to take this as a criticism of the feds, but when the federal government says they're going to look after it, it doesn't always work out quite that way.

So on the testing issue–rapid testing–they blocked our orders, and I'll be clear about when I say they blocked our orders what I mean is, they signed agreements with lots of producers of vaccine –rapid vaccine and other materials –antigens and so on, that those agreements were signed with the federal government. And those companie s, as part of those agreements, they blocked any orders under the agree- ments they made from sub -national governments, meaning us, okay.

So provincial governments were not able to go to the same suppliers and say, okay, look, we understand that you've got a big order with the federal government here. Once you've satisfied that order, could we get into a line and we may need additional supplies, right, or backup in a variety of categories. Our civil servants have been working very hard to try to procure additional supplies in many categories. We've succeeded to a great degree, thanks to the efforts of some really dedicated civil servants to get a lot of the PPE categories stocked up now.

But it's on this rapid testing issue that we are very much, at this point, dependent on the federal government. So I say that and I say, well, thank you to them for making available to us– Mr. Chairperson: One minute. Mr. Pallister: Thanks, Mr. Chairperson. The Abbott test you're familiar with, I think. More reliable than some of the broader testing materials that–rapid testing materials that are out there. The Abbott test, we have 4,500 of those. Most of them we got in the last three or four days.

All of that will be out in the next three or four days, and that's really good because the long answer to the member's concern is we do not want to run out of front -line personnel in any category, and rapid testing is a key part of making sure we keep our people safe and able to go back to work safely, protecting their, you know, their patients if it's a health -care institution, or clients if it's a personal-care home. Really good progress there. More to be done and more of that on the agenda today, and I still didn't get

536 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 that other three items I'll share with my colleagues, but I'll do that, Mr. Chair, in a sec. Mr. Kinew: So I just want to pick up on a few different things that the First Minister raised in that previous answer. The first is really just more of a comment, and just to share this in good faith with the Premier (Mr. Pallister) about, you know, the potential for the military at some point to be deployed.

Again, at this point, that's just a contingency option, and I take seriously that the Premier's comments suggest that that's at least, you know, some part of the conversation going on in government. But I just wanted to just share with the Premier, in case he hasn't heard this sort of advice, is that from some people on the front lines of our health- care system, they do expect capacity to be reached within Winnipeg hospitals and across the Manitoba system over the next few weeks. At the same time, we see outbreaks happening in other areas, particularly in northern Manitoba.

There's some large First Nations, unfortunately many people there have to endure very poor living conditions, some of which, like the lack of housing and the lack of clean drinking water, will make it more difficult for people to self-isolate or to abide by the other public health recommendations that could help slow the spread of COVID. And, of course, even if the majority of cases are mild in these communities, there will be some people requiring hospitalization.

And so it was suggested that, because the real bottleneck that we are looking ahead at, at hospital capacity in Manitoba is related to the numbe r of people who can work in those hospitals, that if more cases arrive, whether from northern Manitoba or from other regions, that the military –on a contingency basis–being activated in that scenario could potentially help fill the need. And I do acknowle dge what the Premier said about rapid testing potentially allowing health- care workers to return to the job more quickly, and so I do take that answer seriously.

So that was the first piece that I just wanted to share. The second piece of that previous answer that the First Minister shared about was talking about attempting to procure protective equipment. Now, we did some back and forth with the Central Services Minister making some claims and then, eventually, I believe it was one of the suppliers in ques tion that contradicted what the Central Services Minister made there. So, trying to get at the heart of the matter here. I would ask the Premier: Can he undertake to provide a list of the providers where the feds blocked our orders, in the words of the Premier? Mr.

Pallister: I've been trying –just trying to take some notes there to make sure I do justice to the issues the member raised, Mr. Chair, and I've–I have, I think, got a handle on three of the things he raised. The first was in respect of the ra pid testing and the reference to the military. The military is there as a backup. There is a danger in starting to talk about going to the military. There's a danger –the member knows this–in creating the sense that there's going to be a need for the military, when, in fact, the preventative work that's been done is making it less and less likely as we go forward.

With respect to the issues around the group–the incident command group –kind of misinformed. A couple of media reports today confusing the issue and I would clarify for our committee members: incident command is stood up when there's a lockdown. We stood up instant command, as you remember in the spring, restrictions–with tremendous work from a lot of people, including our caucus members, who worked very hard on protocol development in various sectors in the economy.

That was a real good effort on their part, resulted in us being able, as the numbers began to flatten and then to drop, to start to allow businesses to reopen. And everyone remembers that and I hope everybody was happy about that because it got a lot of Manitobans the jobs back and their lives back. But then it isn't like, well, there's no incident command so there's no leadership.

And the important thing to understand here is that the provincial respiratory virus steering committee is the ongoing leadership group, that it was always in place before the command centre was activated after and that work all continued–so, most of the same people involved in that. So, I would just share that with members that that understanding be there, because the work of our leadership team in the health -care system and our, frankly, our executive leadership team at the Cabinet level, whether it be at the deputy minister level right up–all the way down w as–never stopped–ever stopped.

Work continued throughout the entire period, so work done on testing, on procurement, on nurse hiring, expansion of personnel, protecting PCHs –all of that work, all that planning continued.

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 537 The member asked about ICU specifi cally and I wanted to make an offer to he and all the members. The work in terms of the ICU planning, the capacity planning, the strategy there, the multi -layered planning that has to happen was months in the making and that plan is there. I would like to offer the –I'll–I will ask, on behalf of our legislators, that there be a briefing made available so that all members of the Legislative Assembly who are interested in knowing how that planning works –how that plan works, get a special insight into that.

I think it would be helpful. It's a ton of work. I'm not the health expert, but I understand that it's incredibly complex, multi-layered work and I really respect the people that did the work. So if I could just put that offer out there, I think that could be arranged maybe early next week. I shouldn't speak because it's not like these folks don't have other things on their plate right now, to put it mildly.

But I think if we could get a briefing for the MLAs, I think that would be helpful, and that was the second issue the member raised. * (15:40) The issues around PPE, we'd have to get a list from, I guess that would be–is that–[interjection] Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: Yes, thanks, Mr. Chair.

I think we should be able to get t hat for the Opposition Leader, the list of people that we've asked so far who've told us no because they have the federal government blocking us is, I think, is to be clear, is I think what he's asking for, and it seems like it's pretty much all the major providers, not just on vaccines either, but on a number of other fronts. We're, as I said earlier–I'm being blunt here–we're not happy about this, but this is the nature of what the feds have chosen to do.

And I get that they did it for their own good reasons, but it does limit our ability to some degree to access, just to put it mildly, access additional resources we would all like to have to protect our people here in Manitoba. I hope that was addressing–I may have missed one of the Opposition Leader's issues there, Mr. Chair, but I'll be happy to follow up with him as you wish. Mr.

Kinew: So I'll appreciate that undertaking on providing a list from Central Services, the department there, and also, you know, I would take the Premier up on the offer to have a briefing about the ICU capacity and the plans to flex that up. Yes, so schedules permitting, I guess we'll follow up off -line on that one, and I do appreciate the offer. I'm sure many of my colleagues would do the same insofar as they'd take him up on that, and, yes, we'll just look forward to setting that up off-line. When it comes to the incident command structure, what the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) touched on there, can the Premier explain who is a member of that incident command structure and tell us who decides who is a member there? Mr. Pallister: I want to do the member's –I'll undertake to do the member's request justice here, and I won't–I'm not going to try to impersonate a detail guy on this one except to say this, I'll undertake to get the member a detailed list of who is on these groups, but I'll simplify it in this way: incident command goes deeper. So, incident command would go further down the food chain, if you will.

You've all seen in your Public Accounts books org structures in various departments and so on. The incident command will go down more into some of the specific areas, examples could be in the lab area or that type of –the ongoing respiratory virus steering committee structure is broad-based, includes all the same people. So it would be a subs et, sort of higher up the food chain; it's the head people of the various –but when you get into incident command, you may go down further.

So, for example, the EMO, the Emergency Measures Organization, is part of the respiratory virus steering committee, but when you get over into the incident command side, may go down; there may be three people from EMO involved in that structure and that discussion. So one is a subset of the other. This is why, for clarity, it's important to understand. When you expand to incident command, that doesn't mean there wasn't a structure in place between, you know, June and the end of September. Because there was, and there were lots and lots of people on it.

But when you go into a pre - or during lockdown situation, then you go to incident command to expand down into the system to get closer, more immediate feedback more rapidly than would be the case with the simpler structure of the respiratory virus steering committee. So I hope that–that's a layman explanation. I hope that helps. And I will undertake to give the member – members of the committee a complete list of the personnel involved in those calls.

I will also say, though, in addition to these calls, are ongoing consultative calls with our small business sector, our–I don't know, you can call it what you like,

538 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 enterprise sector. I forget what the exact name is. [interjection] This isn't what I need. But I'll get –I'll give you some examples in a moment when I can obtain them. But I know that in terms of the representa tive group, it was close to 50 different employer groups. We'll go from chambers of commerce right over to manufacturers to business council to sector groups of various kinds.

There are dozens of these folks who were on calls –most weeks throughout the enti re COVID period, two calls, and then for a brief time I think in July there was one call a week, back to two now. These are consultative calls to get input: how's this working, what's going on, what do we need to do to improve things, what other suggestions or concerns do you have, that type of thing. That's also going on on the economic side, if you will, while the health -care structure, which doesn't –I mean, they work in conjunction in a sense, but there are–they are separate structures.

In addition to that, of course, are almost daily ministerial calls with senior officials, as well, to make sure there are no silos existing here in government and that we're aware of what each other's doing and can complement and work effectively together across government. Those undertakings are on a very, very– Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: –regular basis as well. And I would also mention the tens of thousands of Manitobans who've been gracious enough to give us feedback on the website through EngageMB, Engage Manitoba site.

You know, at every approach, every time that we've gone to a phase, we've floated it first with Manitobans to ask for their views, as you know, and then we–Dr. Roussin's done so, as we did last Friday, then Dr. Roussin sometimes comes in or I come in or the Health Minister; it depends. And we announce the actual plan, the actual implementation strategies.

But Manitobans have had a role in helping in that, and I wanted to thank Manitobans for that and say that's something I would encourage all MLAs to encourage their constituents to be aware of and to use as a vehicle for expressing ideas that will be listened to and respected. Mr. Kinew: So, as we talk a bit more about the federal government and the provincial government's work together to try and help Manitobans through the pandemic, I'm curious to know about how some of the programs to date that came as part of the Safe Restart Agreement, how those are doing? So I'm wondering if the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) can talk to us about, maybe sta rting with the testing, the contact tracing and data management aspect? I believe that the estimated amount for Manitoba was $108 million. Can the Premier provide an update on how much of that money has been spent to date? * (15:50) Mr. Pallister: Because I'm going to go in a few minutes and I don't want to be, you know, harshly accused by the Opposition Leader of ignoring his requests here on agenda items, and I know he would never do that to me.

I would share with him a couple of other things we're going to be talking about with the PM and then I'll go back to his questions in the time I'm allotted I, hope, Mr. Chair. I mentioned the rapid testing, he had raised the issue–just waiting for the door to close here –that the rapid testing, he raised the issue of the military backup, that was in respect of, I think, more the ICU capacity as much as anything else; I think that's the concern. At least, from our end, that's one of the principle concerns. ICU overflow issues. Red Cross, I should mention that one as well. Red Cross support for staffing.

Isn't it StatsCan as well, eh? StatsCan, federal government offered us support for from Statistics Canada, this was more on the, I think, the bookkeeping side, but also in

part it was, wasn't it on the tracing testin g as well? So just to verify and clarify that the feds are forthcoming on those commitments they had made earlier, we'll be raising that. I mentioned the lab support for testing I think earlier, and the northern community issues. Those are ones. I try to stay focused on four or five key issues in these conversations with the PM because he's clearly got a lot on his plate, too. And these are–those are all priority areas, I hope the members of the committee would agree.

And I'll go a little faster on this one and just say to the member, I'll undertake to get him an update on where the money situation is under the Safe Restart Agreement so that he can actually see where we're at in terms of the accounting for additional federal supports. I would emphasize it's , you know, not to suggest anything but genuine desire to help is the motive of the federal government, but I have noticed, occasionally at least, tendencies for the federal government to want to get noticed when it spends money. I don't think that's unheard of or wrong, but I

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 539 would say it should be noted that, for example, I've mentioned on the education funding there was much hoo-haing from the federal government about supporting education, and we know that 97 per cent of our budget this year will come fr om Manitoba taxpayers and 3 per cent will come from federal government's fine generosity in adding to it. So let's not be confused here about who's paying for this stuff. It is mostly Manitoba taxpayers.

And that isn't wrong, but let's remember that the e xcep- tional increases in our health -care budget under this government are being invested and supported by much, much smaller amounts coming from the federal government. So, proportionately, basically, when the federal government has said they're giving us money for testing, we thank them, we appreciate that; it's a fraction of what we'll be spending. When the federal government says it's going to help us build capacity, thanks very much, we've been doing that, we were doing that long before you guys showed up and came over the hill acting like cavalry.

And we appreciate and thank you for showing up with that additional mine, but it is not very much compared to what we're already investing, what we're committing to invest. And as all members of the Legislat ure know, we've added significantly, as a consequence of COVID, to our spending commitment this year, of well over a billion additional spending just on health care alone. So the federal government's contribution is meaningful. It's appreciated, but, again, to put it in perspective, it's Manitobans.

It's our constituents that are paying the freight for the vast majority of these things and I thank the federal government for supporting the effort. Mr. Chairperson: One minute remaining. Mr. Pallister: So I'll be able to give the member a better breakdown–I can–thanks, Mr. Chair–I'll be able to give the member a more detailed breakdown. I'll just simply say in a general sense that the bulk of the money on health-care-system capacity's already been expended; tha t's about $43 million. Vulnerable populations, I think that's all out; that's $27 million.

And I mentioned we also did our own program, of course, for the disabled in our province that was well received and needed, that was more than this. Municipalities; that money's all been committed and out. All municipalities in Manitoba of interest to all our members will be in a surplus based on their budgeted projections and anticipated additional losses and revenue at their end and so this is as a consequence in part of the basket funding we negotiated with the federal government and our commitment to maintain funding. City of Winnipeg will actually be in surplus this year. Mr.

Kinew: I do thank the Premier (Mr. Pallister) for undertaking to provide the update for the restart agreement funding. I would note that he had an opportunity, I think, to touch on about three of the points. The one that I asked about I don't think he had an opportunity to touch on that yet, which is one of the ones that I think there was a bit of back and forth between federal Minister Vandal and this government which is the testing, contract tracing and data management. And then, of course, early learning and child care and then, you know, the sick leave, I guess, is a bit of a grey area there.

So I do look forward to that undertaking and I do appreciate the First Minister's ability to provide an update there. I also do want to thank him for sharing a bit of the agenda of what's going to be discussed on the call with the Prime Minister this afternoon. I anticipate that the Prime Minister's going to have his own agenda items and so whether all of these issues get covered off, you know, we'll look forward to that update from the First Minister.

If I could just extemporize for a bit before we adjourn this part of the Estimates committee, I do want to just share that when it comes to the vaccines, of course the federal government does have an important role ensuring that there's an adequate supply prioritized to those who need it most, be they vulnerable people or health -care workers who could benefit from it and I really do hope that we do get a vaccine that's safe and effective and that it gets rolled out quickly.

And I would just add that it's incumbent on all members of the Premier's Cabinet to send a s trong pro-vaccine message out to the people of Manitoba. Unfortunately, we've seen some flirting with the anti-vaxxer movement which, of course, is counter - productive to our goals right now, and so we would hope that everyone can just band together and reiterate to Manitobans why it's important for us all to get vaccines, be that for the flu and then hopefully for COVID, should that become available.

Again, I spoke to some degree about the importance of preparing for what may be increased hospitalization needs for people in the North. So if,

540 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 you know, the northern communities point does come up, I would encourage the Premier (Mr. Pallister) to just send the message that, yes, all of Manitoba is concerned about that issue and we do want people across the province to be heal thy. But, of course, I would hope that a Jordan's Principle kind of approach could prevail, which is that people get the health care when they need it and that the various levels of government worry about paying for it after the fact.

When it comes to lab support on testing and rapid testing, you know, I do think that that is another important area. We know that there are too many health-care workers, health -care-front-line heroes who are currently self -isolating or who are awaiting test results. We know t hat there's been some rapid testing capacity added in Winnipeg and so that has been welcomed. But, again, any progress we can do to that would help to make a difference. And when we're talking about the ICU -overflow situation, I know that this week the P rovince started talking about a total of 80 beds.

I've heard from some sources that, you know, we'd be able to increase that up to 100, giving the current space and ventilators and staff working across the province. But, hopefully, some of the resources that the First Minister may be able to acquire from the federal government would help us, be those human resources or otherwise, that that could potentially help us expand beyond that, potentially even maybe inviting health-care workers from other jurisdicti ons to come into Manitoba and help staff those additional ICU bed spaces. * (16:00) Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. As agreed to today in the House, this

section of the Committee of Supply will now move from consideration of the Estimates of Executive Co uncil to consideration of the Estimates of the Department of Economic Development and Training. Shall we briefly recess to allow the minister and critic the opportunity to prepare for the commence - ment of the next department? The committee recessed at 4:00 p.m. ____________ The committee resumed at 4:02 p.m. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND TRAINING Mr. Chairperson (Greg Nesbitt): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. We will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Economic Development and Training.

Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Ralph Eichler (Minister of Economic Development and Training): I do. Mr. Chairperson: The honourable Minister of Economic Development and Training. Mr. Eichler: Twenty-twenty has proved to be a very challenging year so far for all of us as a result of COVID-19 health pandemic, and we truly appreciate the sacrifices Manitobans have made. Our protecting Manitoba agenda includes five guaranteed commitments to protect Manitobans during the pandemic and see Manitoba prosper after the pandemic.

One of those commitments is protecting jobs and restarting our economy with new investment as business supports to create even more new jobs. This includes look at –looking at the economic develop ment landscape in our province, access to capital, tourism and incoming skills and talent knowledge strategy. [interjection] Having a few technical difficulties getting up and running here. Here we go. Our restart Manitoba campaign focuses on the importance of public health fundamentals as we learn to live with and rebound from COVID -19.

From the beginning of our recovery plans, we have targeted our restart Manitoba program with a focus on getting Manitobans back to work safely. Our government has committed to supporting businesses in our communities as we work to create jobs and contribute to the growth of our economy. Our economic relief and recovery programs have included support such as conditional non- repayable loans, targeted wage subsidies, rent supports, deferred fees and interest rebates, infrastructure spending, as well as non -financial support.

The Back to Work initiative, which provides private sector non- profit employers up to $100,000 to subsidize up to 20 new employees to hire since July the 16th–this initiative was extended until December 31st and expanded to allow employers to rehire students that were previously hired through the Manitoba Summer

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 541 Student Recovery Jobs Program, Canada Summer Jobs program and Green Team program. The Manitoba Job Restart program, which successfully supported the transition of over 4,200 people off the CERB program and back to work during critical phase 2 reopening of Manitoba's economy in late June and July. The Province is also making an increased investment at $5.7 million in the Canada -Manitoba Job Grant program for 2020- 2021 to better assist businesses with staff training costs as they recover from COVID-19 pandemic.

In support of the tourism and hospitality sector, Travel Manitoba has engaged in a $2 m illion campaign called Home is Where the Heart Is, safely marketing Manitoba to Manitobans and nearby jurisdictions when it's safe to do so. Our government's COVID -19 recovery invest - ments have supported business to create jobs and encourage employees to safely return to work. Stats Canada released, in September, labour force numbers.

I'm pleased to say that Manitoba is leading the country in private sector job recovery, the employment rate has dropped to 7 per cent from 8.3 per cent in August, and we h ave gained 15,100 jobs. The Province is protecting Manitobans through significant investments that have supported students, including pausing repayment of student loans, providing wage subsidy programs to employers, creating incentives, and an online job- matching website that connects them to employers. Nearly 2,400 employers applied to wage subsidy programs to hire nearly 5,000 students.

To quote from one employer: The student wage subsidy program was a lifeline during the summer when many small businesses had difficulty applying for federal support programs. This resulted in Manitoba having one of the lowest youth unemployment rates in all of Canada. These students were able to make money to help them finance their education, at the same time gain valuable work experience. We are protecting access to post-secondary education by helping students get student loans and bursaries. This is especially important for those experiencing financial hardship due to COVID-19 pandemic.

We have made $15 million inv estment in a Manitoba Scholarship and Bursary Initiative, which will match funding raised by our partners dollar for dollar and provide $30 million to students in scholarships and bursaries. We have also increased the Manitoba bursary by $1.8 million, pr oviding upfront grants of $2,000 to low-income students and an additional $1,500 to Indigenous students. We are taking steps to protect Manitoba's financial future by ensuring predictability and stability in funding our post-secondary system.

We are working closely with our post-secondary institutions to make sure they have the funds to adapt to new ways of learning for students and adjusting to labour market needs. A strong and responsive post -secondary system especially is essential in our recovery, which is why we established a $25.6- million transition support by moving money away from the planned regulatory 1 per cent budget reduction to operating grants.

The fund will help post -secondary institutions respond to the challenges in building on oppor tunities that have come from the pandemic, including developing new online materials and tools, shifting programming where there are available jobs, and help dealing with other unanticipated challenges. We are protecting Manitoba's future by addressing t oday's priorities. People are Manitoba's greatest strength, and new immigrants make Manitoba even stronger, enriching our culture, filling job needs and increasing new ones for themselves and others.

Immigration is a key driver of our economic growth, a way to address targeted labour market needs and a gateway for innovation in our economy. Manitoba's Provincial Nominee Program ensures the province continues to attract skilled workers and entrepreneurs with the potential to make the strongest contributions to our economy soon after arrival in Canada. Once our borders reopen, we'll be ready to welcome new immigrants into our province.

Manitoba's economic response to the pandemic has been shaped by input from frequent and regular discussions with stakeholders to protect Manitobans during this unprecedented time while built in our pandemic responses in a way to help working Manitobans take full advantage of the federal programs by tailoring strong provincial supports to dovetail with those federal programs. * (16:10) Our approach is working. More than 85 per cent of Manitobans who lost their jobs in March and April

542 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 3, 2020 have been rehired, making our unemployment recovery rate the best in Canada. I want to say that it's been an honour to represent our government in Economic Development and Training. It's been a rewarding almost a year now since my anniversary. In fact, it was October the 23rd. So, we've had some challenges and I'm looking forward to getting into the Estimates process with my various critics, whether it be post -secondary, economic, immigration, tourism, et cetera. So I'll close with my comments there, Mr. Chair. Mr.

Chairperson: Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): Yes. Mr. Chairperson: The member for St. Vital. Mr. Moses: Thank you to the minister and the staff for taking the time today to meet with us and discuss the various issues. I think it's important that we sit down and do this and discuss how we can go about making sure our economy is thriving as much as it can be throughout this recession and pandemic that we're all facing.

And I think that's one of the critical parts to remain focused on is that the economy that we're in today is drastically different than it was a year ago when you took the role, as you mentioned your anniversary. And so I'm well aware that any plans that we would've–that you would've had for our economy and your job in, you know, creating jobs and growing business in our, in Manitoba, would be –you know, you should have a different approach than you did when you initially took on your role.

And I think that would be very appropriate because we're in a–we're right now living in a world with higher unemployment than we had last year; more people who are looking at, you know, desperate financial circumstance–personal financial circumstances, whether it's a loss of jobs, difficulty with affordability. There are so many challenges economically and that is leaving out the fact that small businesses have been struggling recently with regulations, closures. And even this week going into the new code red restrictions, I think small businesses are facing even further pressure.

And as the Economic Development Minister, you should be well aware that these issues are–shouldn't be taken lightly. And, you know, I would hope that as we go through this discussion we have, you know, strong awareness that we are in a different time and it needs to be attacked with a different approach, a new and an innovative approach in helping people through their difficulties, helping to bridge businesses ' til the end of our session, and ensuring that Manitobans can get this –through this as healthy and as safely as possible but also on the best financial and economic footing as possible.

So I'll conclude with that and I look forward to our time discussing today. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 10.1(

a) contained in resolution 10.1. Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of this department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mr. Moses: I suggest a global discussion. Mr. Chairperson: It ha s been suggested that we proceed with a global discussion. Is that agreed to? [Agreed] Thank you. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Moses: I do want to begin with just simply touching on some comments that were made earlier today and announcement from the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) as to calling on Manitobans to do some volunteering–specifically, volunteering when it comes to–in the health-care services or helping out in the ways they can in terms of the pandemic. Now, we all know that, you know, M anitobans have a great spirit of volunteerism, and I think that's something that we all should be very –we should commend our citizens for that. However, from an economic standpoint, I think we all know the value of adding jobs to our economy.

And so if t he Province is looking to get work done, wouldn't it serve our economy better to actually be increasing employees, even if it's on a temporary basis, so that money can get flowed through our economy and actually give people the enhanced financial benefit o f working instead of just simply volunteering?

November 3, 2020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 543 Mr. Chairperson: Could we ask the honourable minister to indicate by a raised hand when he's ready to respond? Mr. Eichler: I'm getting used to this mute button. It's interesting. Manitobans have, as the me mber opposite said, been very good at not only donating their time and their money, but their skills. And not everybody is in –to the point where they want to go back to work either part time or full time, but make a contribution and feel part of the soluti on when it comes to giving back and helping fight this pandemic.

So I see nothing wrong with volunteerism. It's some - thing that just comes natural for Manitobans, something that's been bred into our generations from generation to generation. And I know in my family, my family donated time many, many times –not only their money but their time–to various things. And I never want to take away that for Manitobans, and nor would I. But I know my children do the same thing and my grandkids have done the same thing, especially during COVID. They feel that responsibility, that commitment in order to help other Manitobans.

And quite frankly it instills the confidence in Manitobans that others are prepared to step up will have to be paid for it to do it. So–but, you

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-13b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 13b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9998d8cbdf8de02846ff2063fc86441b58fcfb81

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