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British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

4th Session, 37th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, October 29, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Volume 17, Number 12 THE HONOURABLE CLAUDE RICHMOND, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Honourable Iona Campagnolo 4TH SESSION, 37TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Claude Richmond EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council................................................................................. .........................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations.............................................................................. ..................... Hon.

Greg Halsey-Brandt Deputy Premier and Minister of Education ....................................................................................... ..................................Hon. Christy Clark Minister of Advanced Education................................................................................................. ...........................................Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.................................................................................... ..............................Hon.

John van Dongen Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations.............................................................. .................... Hon. Geoff Plant Minister of Children and Family Development.................................................................................... ..............................Hon. Gordon Hogg Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.............................................................................. .................................Hon.

Linda Reid Minister of Community, Aboriginal and Women's Services......................................................................... .................. Hon. George Abbott Minister of State for Community Charter........................................................................................ .................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Minister of State for Women's Equality ......................................................................................... .................................... Hon.

Lynn Stephens Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of State for Deregulation ............................................................................................. ............................................ Hon. Kevin Falcon Minister of Energy and Mines................................................................................................... ....................................... Hon.

Richard Neufeld Minister of Finance ............................................................................................................ ....................................................... Hon. Gary Collins Minister of Forests ............................................................................................................ .................................................. Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Health Planning .................................................................................................... ............................................ Hon.

Sindi Hawkins Minister of Health Services.................................................................................................... ................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Minister of State for Mental Health ............................................................................................ ...................................Hon. Gulzar S. Cheema Minister of State for Intermediate, Long Term and Home Care ............................................................................. Hon.

Katherine Whittred Minister of Human Resources.................................................................................................... ............................................Hon. Murray Coell Minister of Management Services................................................................................................ .........................................Hon. Sandy Santori Minister of Provincial Revenue................................................................................................. ................................................Hon.

Bill Barisoff Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ................................................................................ ..................................Hon. Rich Coleman Minister of Skills Development and Labour...................................................................................... .............................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Minister of Sustainable Resource Management.................................................................................... ..................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of Transportation..................................................................................................... .................................................... Hon. Judith Reid Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection..................................................................................... ....................................Hon. Joyce Murray LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................. ..............................................................

John Weisbeck Leader of the Opposition ....................................................................................................... ...........................................................Joy MacPhail Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ........................................................................................... .............................................. Harold Long Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .............................................................................................. .........................................E.

George MacMinn Clerk Assistant ................................................................................................................ ................................................................... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .................................................................................................. ........................................................ Ian D. Izard Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees........................................................................................ ............................................Craig H.

James Clerk Assistant/Committee Clerk................................................................................................ ............................................ Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms ............................................................................................................... .........................................................A.A. Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ..................................................................................................... ........................................

Anthony Dambrauskas Legislative Librarian.......................................................................................................... ............................................................. Joan A. Barton Legislative Comptroller ........................................................................................................ .................................................................Peter Bray Published by British Columbia Hansard Services, and printed under the authority of the Speaker by the Queen's Printer, Victoria.

Rates: single issue, $2.85; per calendar year, mailed daily, $298. GST extra. Agent: Crown Publications Inc., 521 Fort St., Victoria, B.C. V8W 1E7. Telephone: (250) 386-4636. Fax: 386-0221. www.leg.bc.ca Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet. Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.

Party Standings: Liberal 75; New Democratic 2; Independent Liberal 2. ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) ....................................................................... Shuswap Anderson, Val J. (L) .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)............................................. Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Pat (L).........................................................................Prince George North Belsey, Bill (L).................................................................................

North Coast Bennett, Bill (L) ........................................................................... East Kootenay Bhullar, Tony (Ind. L) ................................................................. Surrey-Newton Bloy, Harry (L).................................................................................. Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).........................................Prince George–Mount Robson Bray, Jeff (L)......................................................................Victoria–Beacon H ill Brenzinger, Elayne (L) ...............................................................

Surrey-Whalley Brice, Susan (L) ............................................................................Saanich South Bruce, Hon. Graham P. (L)................................................ Cowichan-Ladysmith Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Cheema, Hon. Gulzar S. (L) ..........................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Chong, Ida (L)................................................................ Oak Bay–Gordon Head Christensen, Tom (L) .............................................................

Okanagan-Vernon Chutter, Dave (L) ........................................................................... Yale-L illooet Clark, Hon. Christy (L) ..................................................Port Moody–Westwood Cobb, Walt (L) ............................................................................. Cariboo South Coell, Hon. Murray (L) ........................................ Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L) .............................................. Fort Langley–Aldergrove Collins, Hon.

Gary (L).........................................................Vancouver-Fairview de Jong, Hon. Michael (L)....................................... Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................... Surrey-Cloverdale Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................... Comox Valley Halsey-Brandt, Hon. Greg (L) ..................................................Richmond Centre Hamilton, Arnie (L)............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) .....................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Harris, Roger (L)......................................................................................Skeena Hawes, Randy (L) ............................................................ Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Hon. Sindi (L).......................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................... Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Hon. Gordon (L) ........................................................

Surrey–White Rock Hunter, Mike (L) ...................................................................................Nanaimo Jarvis, Daniel (L)...................................................... North Vancouver–Seymour Johnston, Ken (L)............................................................ Vancouver-Fraserview Kerr, Brian J. (L).............................................................. Malahat–Juan de Fuca Krueger, Kevin (L).................................................

Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP) ...............................Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lee, Richard T. (L).......................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L)................................................................. Peace River South Les, John (L) .......................................................................... Ch illiwack-Sumas Locke, Brenda (L) ...........................................................

Surrey–Green Timbers Long, Harold (L) ...................................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................... Bulkley Valley–Stikine McMahon, Wendy (L).............................................Columbia River–Revelstoke MacPhail, Joy (NDP) ..........................................................

Vancouver-Hastings Manhas, Karn (L) .............................................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Masi, Reni (L) ...................................................................................Delta North Mayencourt, Lorne (L) ..........................................................Vancouver-Burrard Murray, Hon. Joyce (L) ........................................................... New Westminster Nebbeling, Hon. Ted (L) .......................................... West Vancouver–Garibaldi Nettleton, Paul (Ind. L)..................................................Prince George–Omineca Neufeld, Hon.

Richard (L)...................................................... Peace River North Nijjar, Rob (L)...................................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Nuraney, John (L) ...............................................................Burnaby-W illingdon Orr, Sheila (L) ...........................................................................Victoria-Hillside Penner, Barry (L)....................................................................... Ch illiwack-Kent Plant, Hon. Geoff (L) ......................................................... Richmond-Steveston Reid, Hon.

Judith (L)............................................................Nanaimo-Parksv ille Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................... Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L) ................................................................ Kamloops Roddick, Valerie (L)..........................................................................Delta South Sahota, Patty (L).....................................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Santori, Hon. Sandy (L)..............................................West Kootenay–Boundary Stephens, Hon.

Lynn (L) ........................................................................ Langley Stewart, Ken (L)...................................................... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Stewart, Richard (L) ...................................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Suffredine, Blair F. (L) ................................................................Nelson-Creston Sultan, Ralph (L)....................................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Thorpe, Hon.

Rick (L) ..........................................................Okanagan-Westside Trumper, Gillian (L)................................................................Alberni-Qualicum van Dongen, Hon. John (L) ................................................Abbotsford-Clayburn Visser, Rod (L).................................................................................North Island Weisbeck, John (L).........................................................Kelowna–Lake Country Whittred, Hon.

Katherine (L) ...................................North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wilson, John (L)........................................................................... Cariboo North Wong, Patrick (L)............................................................Vancouver-Kensington LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................... Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman ..............................................Hon.

Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum.......................................................................G illian Trumper Bulkley Valley–Stikine ..............................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North..............................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds............................................................................Patty Sahota Burnaby-Willingdon......................................................................

John Nuraney Burquitlam ........................................................................................ Harry Bloy Cariboo North ..................................................................................John Wilson Cariboo South .................................................................................... Walt Cobb Chilliwack-Kent ............................................................................. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas .................................................................................

John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke....................................................Wendy McMahon Comox Valley .......................................................................... Hon. Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville .............................................................Richard Stewart Cowichan-Ladysmith .......................................................Hon. Graham P. Bruce Delta North.......................................................................................... Reni Masi Delta South................................................................................

Valerie Roddick East Kootenay .................................................................................. Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin...................................................................Arnie Hamilton Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................... Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops ....................................................................... Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson ........................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country...............................................................

John Weisbeck Kelowna-Mission ................................................................ Hon. Sindi Hawkins Langley ............................................................................... Hon. Lynn Stephens Malahat–Juan de Fuca .....................................................................Brian J. Kerr Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................... Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows .............................................................Ken Stewart Nanaimo..........................................................................................

Mike Hunter Nanaimo-Parksville ...................................................................Hon. Judith Reid Nelson-Creston.......................................................................Blair F. Suffredine New Westminster ..................................................................Hon. Joyce Murray North Coast ........................................................................................Bill Belsey North Island........................................................................................Rod Visser North Vancouver–Lonsdale.......................................... Hon.

Katherine Wh ittred North Vancouver–Seymour .............................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head .......................................................................Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon .................................................................... Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside.................................................................Hon. Rick Thorpe Peace River North .............................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South .......................................................................

Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley ....................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain.................................................... Karn Manhas Port Moody–Westwood......................................................... Hon. Christy Clark Powell River–Sunshine Coast.......................................................... Harold Long Prince George North................................................................................Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson................................................Hon.

Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................Paul Nettleton Richmond Centre......................................................... Hon. Greg Halsey-Brandt Richmond East .......................................................................... Hon. Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston ................................................................ Hon. Geoff Plant Saanich North and the Islands ............................................... Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South...................................................................................

Susan Brice Shuswap .............................................................................. Hon. George Abbott Skeena.............................................................................................Roger Harris Surrey-Cloverdale ................................................................. Hon. Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers .................................................................. Brenda Locke Surrey-Newton ............................................................................... Tony Bhullar Surrey–Panorama Ridge................................................. Hon.

Gulzar S. Cheema Surrey-Tynehead .......................................................................... Dave S. Hayer Surrey-Whalley ...................................................................... Elayne Brenzinger Surrey–White Rock ...............................................................Hon. Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard................................................................. Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview............................................................... Hon.

Gary Co llins Vancouver-Fraserview ...................................................................Ken Johnston Vancouver-Hastings .......................................................................Joy MacPhail Vancouver-Kensington...................................................................Patrick Wong Vancouver-Kingsway..........................................................................Rob Nijjar Vancouver-Langara....................................................................Val J.

Anderson Vancouver–Mount Pleasant............................................Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................... Hon. Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena............................................................ Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill.............................................................................Jeff Bray Victoria-Hillside.................................................................................. Sheila Orr West Kootenay–Boundary.................................................... Hon.

Sandy Santori West Vancouver–Capilano ..............................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ................................................. Hon. Ted Nebbeling Yale-Lillooet .................................................................................. Dave Chutter

CONTENTS Wednesday, October 29, 2003 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Introductions by Members....................................................................................................... ............................................... 7621 Introduction and First Reading of Bills ........................................................................................ ......................................... 7621 Private Managed Forest Land Act (Bill 88) Hon. S.

Hagen Statements (Standing Order 25B).............................................................................................................................. .............. 7622 B.C. Family Hearing Resource Centre D. Hayer Minerva Foundation leadership program P. Sahota Opening of financial services call centre in Surrey B. Locke Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 7623 Traffic fine revenue and funding of municipal police forces J. MacPhail Hon. G.

Campbell Flooding in northwestern B.C. B. Belsey Hon. R. Coleman Impact of unemployment rate increase on number of income assistance recipients J. Kwan Hon. M. Coell Maintenance of highway medians S. Brice Hon. J. Reid Comments by Agriculture minister to cattle rancher P. Nettleton Hon.

J. van Dongen Point of Order (Speaker's Ruling) .............................................................................................. ............................................ 7625 Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 7626 Ver-Tel Communications Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr406) T.

Christensen Committee of the Whole House ................................................................................................... .......................................... 7626 Ver-Tel Communications Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr406) Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 7626 Ver-Tel Communications Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr406) Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 7626 Buron Construction Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr407) V.

Anderson Committee of the Whole House ................................................................................................... .......................................... 7626 Buron Construction Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr407) Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 7627 Buron Construction Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr407)

Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 7627 Buron Construction

(1986) Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr408) V. Anderson Committee of the Whole House ................................................................................................... .......................................... 7627 Buron Construction

(1986) Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr408) Report and Third Reading of Bills .............................................................................................. ........................................... 7627 Buron Construction

(1986) Ltd. (Corporate Restoration) Act, 2003 (Bill Pr408) Committee of the Whole House ................................................................................................... .......................................... 7627 Manufactured Home Act (Bill 72) Hon. G.

Collins Reporting of Bills............................................................................................................. ......................................................... 7628 Manufactured Home Act (Bill 72) Third Reading of Bills......................................................................................................... ..................................................... 7628 Manufactured Home Act (Bill 72) Second Reading of Bills ........................................................................................................ ................................................... 7628 Business Corporations Amendment Act (No. 2), 2003 (Bill 86) Hon.

G. Collins B. Locke Unclaimed Property Amendment act (No. 2), 2003 (Bill 87) Hon. G. Collins Youth Justice Act (Bill 63) Hon. G. Plant J. Kwan Hon. G. Hogg E. Brenzinger D. Hayer L. Mayencourt D. MacKay K. Stewart S. Orr J. Nuraney I. Chong R. Hawes K. Manhas J. Bray P. Bell B. Lekstrom K. Johnston V. Anderson B. Bennett

7621 WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Prayers. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Halsey-Brandt: Today in the members' gallery I would like to acknowledge special visitors from Holland. Please join me in welcoming His Excel- lency Como van Hellenberg Hubar, the Ambassador of the Netherlands to Canada, and his wife Liliane van Hellenberg Hubar-Schilling. This is the ambassador's first official visit to British Columbia, and I'm pleased he has travelled here to discover the many opportuni- ties our beautiful province presents.

He is accompanied by Joop Corijn, consul general of the Netherlands at Vancouver. Would the House please make them feel welcome. [1405] K. Stewart: It is my honour to introduce today a guest from my riding. Dr. Frank Ervin is here today. He talked to caucus about the dangers of smoking. If anyone here needs any encouragement to quit smok- ing, I suggest they talk to him. He's a specialist in in- ternal and respiratory medicine, and I wish the House would make him welcome today. P.

Sahota: It gives me great pleasure to introduce to the House an amazing young lady who is here in the Legislature today, spending the day with me. She's a dedicated, intelligent and hard-working young lady, who was chosen to participate in the Follow a Leader program sponsored by the Minerva Foundation. Would the House please make Sepideh Alavi welcome. R. Visser: In the gallery today is one of the hardest- working public servants this province has. She's led a community through a very trying time over the last couple of years.

She and her council have built a vision for their community, have renamed their highway the "tree to sea" highway, and have provided leadership in that community that has gone above and beyond the call. Would the House please make welcome Sylvia McNeil, the mayor of Tahsis. S. Orr: It's my pleasure today to introduce a gen- tleman from my riding called Bob Sorsier. Bob was a very hard worker in my 2001 campaign, and then he left town. I hope that isn't what drove him out of town. Anyway, he's now back, and we're very pleased he's living back in Victoria. Would the House please make him welcome. B.

Belsey: I have the pleasure today to introduce to the House a visitor from the Queen Charlotte Is- lands, Haida Gwaii. Tanis Woode is here today. Would everybody in the House please join me in making her feel welcome. W. Cobb: It's my pleasure today to introduce a friend and, actually, neighbour. She lives in my com- plex in Williams Lake — retired teacher, Avis Delaney. Would the House please help me make her welcome. Hon. S. Hawkins: I want to introduce two very important people to the Legislature today. They are two registered nurses from HealthServ Professionals B.C., Dianne Casper and Katherine Byam.

They're here today to give members and staff their flu shots. They're i n r o o m 1 4 5 . I k n o w t h a t m a n y m e m b e r s h a v e t a k e n advantage of this already, and I would encourage oth- ers to do so. Please make them welcome. L. Mayencourt: It's a pleasure to introduce Ellen Sculley to the House. Ellen is visiting here from Van- couver with Tanis Woode and Avis Delaney, and they're looking forward to a boisterous question pe- riod. Would the House please make them welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills PRIVATE MANAGED FOREST LAND ACT Hon. S.

Hagen presented a message from Her Hon- our the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Private Managed Forest Land Act. Hon. S. Hagen: I move the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. S. Hagen: I'm pleased to introduce this bill today. The Ministry of Sustainable Resource Man- agement proposes to create the Private Managed For- est Land Act. This bill is consistent with the govern- ment's new-era commitment and deregulation initia- tive. The bill underscores government's goals of oper- ating more efficiently.

It also demonstrates this gov- ernment's ability to responsibly manage the prov- ince's natural resources in partnership with those be- ing regulated, while decreasing administrative costs and complexity. [1410] In 2001 the core services review of the forest land reserve concluded that the reserve's land use controls did not serve a compelling public interest. The public, however, retains an interest in encouraging landown- ers to manage their land in a way that protects public environmental values and promotes reforestation.

This bill follows through on the government's commitment to create a mechanism for the continued regulation of forest practices on private land assessed as managed forest, while eliminating the forest land reserve. The legislation will create a new governing council representing an innovative partnership of members appointed by government and by private forest land owners. The governing council will establish and en- force environmentally sustainable forest practices on

7622 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 private managed forest land in accordance with objec- tives set by the government in the act. I'm pleased to present this bill in the House today. I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 88, Private Managed Forest Land Act, intro- duced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) B.C. FAMILY HEARING RESOURCE CENTRE D. Hayer: I rise today to recognize the excellent w o r k b e i n g d o n e b y a n a g e n c y i n S u r r e y - T y n e h e a d . The B.C. Family Hearing Resource Centre, which helps educate children who are deaf or hard of hearing, opened their new building October 30 on 92nd Avenue and 152nd Street in my Surrey-Tynehead constituency. The opening is possible because of generous support from the Ministry of Children and Family Develop- ment, through government funding and other dona- tions.

A preschool is moving into this new building, and our government also helped the preschool replace its old communication equipment for children who have difficulty hearing. On top of that, the centre also receives annual operational funding from the ministry. The B.C. Family Hearing Resource Centre helps more than 325 children and their families from all across B.C. who struggle with issues surrounding deafness and hearing difficulties. I know from personal experience how hard this can be on a family. My own nephew suffers from a severe hearing disability.

This preschool helps young children, through family- centred programs, to prepare for school years. The re- medial training and support the children and family receive at this centre is outstanding. The school's dedi- cated staff members should be commended for all they do to help the children communicate and become pro- ductive members of our community. Other contributors, businesses, foundations, service clubs and individual donors also deserve recognition. There are also many others who help, including those who volunteer their time.

I want to say thank you and recognize the ongoing support that the Ministry of Children and Family Development offers these young children. It makes life more exciting and the future brighter for these children and their families. MINERVA FOUNDATION LEADERSHIP PROGRAM P. Sahota: Earlier I rose to introduce Sepideh Alavi, who has chosen to take

part in the Follow a Leader program by the Minerva Foundation for B.C. Women. Founded in 1999, the Minerva Foundation is an inde- pendent, non-profit society governed by a volunteer board representing the cultural and geographic diver- sity of British Columbia. The foundation's mission is to create opportunities for women throughout British Columbia and help them realize their economic and leadership potential. They want to open doors for women so other women can pass through them. The foundation focuses on four priority areas: economic security, safety, education and leadership development for girls and women.

It is the leadership development aspect that I've had the opportunity to be involved in, particularly the Follow a Leader pro- gram. This program is coordinated by the Minerva Foundation and sponsored generously by KPMG and the Vancouver Sun . This initiative provides a forum for young women from grade 12 to graduate students and introduces them to potential career paths. It pro- vides training for both leaders and the young women in establishing mentoring relationships.

As well, it's a vehicle for good corporate citizens to support leader- ship development and advance opportunities for women in B.C. to assume leadership roles in all facets of society. Last week I had the chance to meet not only Se- pideh, the young lady who's shadowing me as part of the program, but the other young ladies and leaders who are mentoring. It has been an honour for me in hav i ng t hi s o p p o rt u ni t y t o b e aro u nd s o m e o f o u r f u - ture female leaders. All the young women in the pro- gram are intelligent, articulate, dynamic, inspiring and caring.

I know that for the Minerva Foundation and all the women leaders who are mentoring, they are truly proud of these young ladies. I want to congratulate all the women on their leadership and for being part of this very important process and program. [1415] OPENING OF FINANCIAL SERVICES CALL CENTRE IN SURREY B. Locke: I rise in the House today to express my constituency's elation with the news that J.P. Morgan Chase will open a call centre in the riding of Surrey– Green Timbers. [Applause.] Yes, more good news. As you all know, J.P.

Morgan Chase and Co. is a leading global financial services firm with assets of over $793 billion, and it operates in more than 50 coun- tries. This company — which is a leader in financial transaction processing, investment management, pri- vate banking and private equity investment for con- sumers and businesses — announced Monday its in- tention to open a 150,000-square-foot call centre in Sur- rey's Central City building that will eventually employ more than a thousand people. J.P.

Morgan Chase is headquartered in New York and serves more than 30 million consumers nation- wide, including many of the world's most prominent corporate, institutional and government clients, so I'm sure the company does not make its decisions lightly. In announcing the deal, J.P. Morgan Chase officials credited the area's deep, diverse and educated labour

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7623 pool as contributing to its decision to locate operations in B.C. and specifically in Surrey. Hiring for the new centre is expected to begin this spring. The government of British Columbia has worked hard, putting time and energy into attracting this business to our region. Thank you to the Premier and the Minister of Competition, Science and Enter- prise.

Clearly, the company's announcement can be held as a classic example of how this government's policy, its directions with the economy and the favour- able investment climate are attracting international business and investment to British Columbia. This announcement by J.P. Morgan Chase is good news for the province, this country and especially the people of Surrey–Green Timbers. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Premier and the B.C. government on bringing this success story to B.C. and my hometown. Oral Questions TRAFFIC FINE REVENUE AND FUNDING OF MUNICIPAL POLICE FORCES J.

MacPhail: Yesterday we learned that crime is on the increase in British Columbia, reversing a down- ward trend under the former government. The board of trade has released its own study that calls…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. J. MacPhail: The board of trade…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. J. MacPhail: The board of trade has released its own study that calls for an infusion of dollars on polic- ing. When he was asked about the report in the House, the Solicitor General blustered and attacked the mes- senger.

The government takes in approximately $100 mil- lion per year from traffic fines. This same government campaigned on a promise to send 75 percent of traffic fine revenue to municipalities to fight crime. To the Premier. He campaigned on a new-era promise to transfer 75 percent of traffic fine revenue to municipal policing. When is he going to do it? Hon. G. Campbell: That will be completed prior to May 17, 2005, as we committed to the people of British Columbia and as we have committed to local govern- ment for the last two and a half years.

I think it's important to note that as we work with local governments, we're working to provide inte- grated policing, to provide comprehensive services throughout the province. That's why we're creating safer, more secure communities for everyone to live in. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a sup- plementary question. J. MacPhail: Isn't it interesting that this new-era promise may be completed in May of 2005? An Hon. Member: I heard "will." J. MacPhail: Oh, may. Believe you me, may.

We know the promise that, provincewide, about $10 million of traffic fine revenue is now sent to mu- nicipalities by this government.

If this government had actually fulfilled its promise, there would be an addi- tional $65 million that could go to putting more cops on the street and perhaps reverse the trend under this government toward more crime. [1420] The Premier might think it's appropriate to break this promise so he can help his struggling Finance min- ister to balance the budget, but most of the people I talk to on the street think the Minister of Finance's political career comes second to the safety of their streets.

When is the Premier going to give the municipalities the addi- tional $65 million in funding, as he promised them, to help fight crime? And if he's going to make them wait until May of 2005, why? Why is it this promise he de- cided to break? Hon. G. Campbell: As the member opposite knows, this government laid out a comprehensive plat- form before the voters in 2001. We intend to carry that platform out. We undertook, unlike the previous gov- ernment, to provide 75 percent of all traffic fines to the local communities to help meet their policing needs. That commitment will be met — will be met.

It will be met prior to May 17, 2005. There are two budgets prior to May 17, 2005, and the member opposite can know this: that commitment will be met. Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Opposition has a further supplementary. J. MacPhail: Here's the New Era document, the bi- ble of the Liberals: return 75 percent of all traffic fine revenue to municipalities to improve community polic- ing and crime prevention. Interesting…. Interjections. J. MacPhail: Very interesting that they cheer an unfulfilled promise. Under this government…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Let us hear the ques- tion. J.

MacPhail: Under this government, crime is on the rise, homelessness is on the rise, unemployment is on the rise, and the number of people about to be

7624 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 kicked off income assistance grows daily. The only thing on the way down is this government's credibility. They managed to give a tax cut of $2 billion, which has failed miserably, on day one in office. On this one, people who want safe streets have to wait until May of 2005. The government treats the New Era document as its bible, a religious text. When will the Premier order his failing Minister of Finance to keep the faith with the province to give the municipalities $65 million more to fight crime?

When are they going to stop just faking it with bills that mean nothing? Hon. G. Campbell: I am the first to admit that it has taken us more than two and a half years to undo all the damage the member opposite created. For years, municipalities have asked provincial governments to provide them with support. We all know that the peak of property crime in British Columbia was under the previous government — in 1996, 86.7 offences per t h o u s a n d . W e k n o w t h a t i t h a s b e e n g o i n g d o w n f o r the last number of years.

We know that municipalities asked for almost ten years for support from her pro- vincial government in the past, and they turned a deaf ear. This government has not done that. This govern- ment has committed. We have committed to local communities. We have a Solicitor General who is work- ing with local communities. We are providing for inte- grative police services that meet the needs of local communities.

The member opposite should know this: unlike her government, we are committed and we will deliver 75 percent of all traffic fines to local communi- ties for policing and for crime prevention programs, so their communities will be even safer. [1425] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. FLOODING IN NORTHWESTERN B.C. B. Belsey: My question is to the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. As we attempt to recover from the recent floods in the southwest of our prov- ince, there's another flooding that occurred in the northwest.

Heavy rains in the Pacific Northwest have caused the Kalum and Nass rivers to flood their banks, leaving many residents of outlying communities with- out road access and power, and some even homeless. Can the minister tell the House what actions are being taken for these flood victims throughout the Pacific Northwest? Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, I appreciate the member and the other members from up in that area who have been in contact with me and the emergency response centre that's set up in Terrace with regard to this particular disaster. We treated this the same as any other disaster.

Emergency social services were on the ground imme- diately. We activated our PREOC centre, which is our emergency response centre in the area. I have person- ally spoken to the director up there who's in charge of operating it on the ground, as have my staff. We have sent sandbags. We have sent generators. We are now preparing to airlift in food, which was happening to- day. The bridge that's out is at the same level of prior- ity as the one south of Pemberton, and Highways are working on that immediately. IMPACT OF UNEMPLOYMENT RATE INCREASE ON NUMBER OF INCOME ASSISTANCE RECIPIENTS J.

Kwan: Today Statistics Canada reported that for the seventh consecutive month, the number of British Columbians receiving employment insurance benefits has increased — the worst record in Canada. That shouldn't be a surprise, because unemployment is at a ten-year high and B.C.'s economy is dead last in Can- ada. Given these dismal numbers, can the Minister of Human Resources tell us how many people he expects to be added to the welfare rolls when employment in- surance benefits run out? No spin, no rhetoric — just the answer. Hon. M. Coell: I know where 1,500 jobs are going to be.

They're going to be in Surrey in a couple of months. I think one of the things the opposition continually fails to realize is that times are changing in British Co- lumbia. The Olympics are coming. We've got a conven- tion centre being built. We've got transportation plans throughout this province. There are jobs. I think yes- terday I mentioned that in the Vancouver Sun a report said close to a million new jobs over the next 15 years. Maybe, just maybe, the opposition doesn't want to see British Columbians succeed, but British Columbi- ans are succeeding.

This government is helping British Columbia businesses to create jobs, and those jobs are going to give families decent incomes — far be it from when they were in government. Mr. Speaker: The member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant has a supplementary question. J. Kwan: Well, the facts don't lie, and Statistics Canada has put out the information. British Columbi- ans know the truth. They know that unemployment is through the roof, they know that the economy is dead last, and they know that this minister has an obligation to answer basic questions. B .

C . i s s e c o n d o n l y t o O n t a r i o i n t h e y e a r - o v e r - y e a r increase in the number of people on unemployment in- surance. Surely, the minister is aware that with more people unemployed — 200,000, more than ever in its history — and with more British Columbians collecting unemployment insurance, he's got a big problem coming. He won't tell us how many people he's going to kick off income assistance come next April. Can he tell

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7625 u s ho w m an y p e o p l e he e x p e c t s t o ad d t o t he ro l l s as the economic situation becomes more desperate for thousands of British Columbians? Hon. M. Coell: For the first time in the history of British Columbia, there are two million people working in this province. Mr. Speaker, 100,000 jobs have been created in this economy since this government was elected. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Hon. M.

Coell: My ministry actually has tens of thousands of job opportunities for income assistance clients, and 20,000-plus people have been placed in job placement and training programs by this government. I think the opposition, once again, fails to realize that British Columbians want to succeed, the economy is moving, people are coming back to this province who left this province when the NDP was government, and people are starting to succeed in this province for the first time in a decade. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. [1430] MAINTENANCE OF HIGHWAY MEDIANS S.

Brice: My question is for the Minister of Trans- portation. Over the summer a number of my constitu- ents approached me concerning the reduction of mow- ing on the medians on the highway. The minister at that time indicated there would be a review. Can the Minister of Transportation please tell me what the na- ture and outcome of that review is? Hon. J. Reid: I did meet with many municipalities, quite a few at UBCM in the fall, and they did talk about the pride of their communities, the pride in their com- munities.

We have worked with them on this issue and have decided that we would have a limited mowing program. We will work community by community to assess priorities. We've had a very successful first year of our Adopt- a-Highway program. In conjunction with the Adopt-a- Highway program, working on a community-by- community basis, we will have a limited mowing pro- gram going forward this next spring. COMMENTS BY AGRICULTURE MINISTER TO CATTLE RANCHER P.

Nettleton: Apparently the Minister of Agricul- ture was very anxious to talk to rancher Sharon Robert- son after discovering that I had arranged for her to come to the Legislature tomorrow as well as to make her available to the media. Consequently, the minister phoned Ms. Robertson, whereupon she asked him why, for example, the government had no problem guaranteeing millions in funding to rebuild trestle bridges destroyed by fire but refused guarantees for the ranchers devastated by mad cow. The minister's further comment to her was that he wished Sheila Copps had kept her mouth shut and hadn't said that. Mr.

Premier, do you know anything about this situation, and can you explain the Sheila Copps comment? Hon. J. van Dongen: I was not aware of someone c o m i n g t o t h e L e g i s l a t u r e . W e h a v e a p o l i c y t h a t w e have established with our staff that every call, every letter, receives an immediate phone call. We try and assist individual producers with their applications. There are a number of programs available both for 2002 and for 2003. As I said yesterday, we'll be an- nouncing a program shortly on cull cows. We have run a series of workshops and regional meetings for pro- ducers.

I believe there's a good range of programs and assistance available to producers, and we will continue to help them in any way that we can. [End of question period.] Point of Order (Speaker's Ruling) Mr. Speaker: During the afternoon sitting on Mon- day, the Leader of the Opposition rose on a point of order relating to a ministerial statement made by the Government House Leader on Thursday, October 23, immediately following question period.

Essentially, the member's objection was that she had not received an advance copy of the ministerial statement and was therefore not in a position to make a timely and appro- priate response. The Government House Leader, in his response to the point of order, stated that while governments try to pro- vide advance notice of ministerial statements to the Chair and the opposition, such advance notice is not always possible and that, in any event, there's no statutory or other obligation imposing this practice.

The Government House Leader further stated that the information pro- vided to the House was, in fact, not provided to him until the end of question period and that, in any event, the Leader of the Opposition was not in the House at the time. Had she been in the House at the time and re- quested a right of reply, it would have been granted. The timing and content of ministerial statements has been thoroughly examined in the earlier decisions of the House, and I refer hon. members to two deci- sions recorded in the Journals of the House: one on March 20, 1987, at page 26 and another on April 27, 1999, at page 231.

I commend these decisions to mem- bers who wish to examine the matter further. The Chair has examined the contents of the minis- terial statement, considered the circumstances under which it was made and can find no breach of order. Indeed, the ministerial statement dealt with the matter

7626 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 that had just been canvassed in question period, and the Chair feels that the ability of the House to respond promptly to matters of concern should be encouraged. [1435] Touching briefly on the matter of replies to ministe- rial statements, this House has on occasion permitted a deferred reply to a ministerial statement, but clearly each case must be decided on its individual merit. The Chair encourages notice to be given wherever possible, but neither the rules of this House nor its precedents indicate that such is mandatory.

Hon. members, if I may, would you just take your seats for a moment. The Leader of the Opposition raises a point, and I would like to refer all members to their copy of Stand- ing Orders. I know most of you will have difficulty find- ing this little book, but it's in your office somewhere. Specifically, it's

section 47A, which refers to oral ques- tions,

section (b), which I will read to you. I won't read the whole thing. "Questions and answers" — note that it says questions and answers — "will be brief and pre- cise and stated without argument or opinion." I rec- ommend this

section to you, as I would not like to have to read this at every question period in the House, but I will if necessary. Orders of the Day Hon. G. Collins: With leave, I call private mem- ber's Bill Pr406. Leave granted. Second Reading of Bills VER-TEL COMMUNICATIONS LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 T. Christensen: I move that the bill be now read a second time. This bill simply restores Ver-Tel Commu- nications Ltd. to the register of companies. Motion approved. T. Christensen: By leave, I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House to be con- sidered forthwith. Leave granted.

Bill Pr406, Ver-Tel Communications Ltd. (Corpo- rate Restoration) Act, 2003, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for con- sideration forthwith. Committee of the Whole House VER-TEL COMMUNICATIONS LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill Pr406; J. Weisbeck in the chair. The committee met at 2:38 p.m. Sections 1 to 4 inclusive approved.

Preamble approved. Title approved. T. Christensen: I move the committee rise and re- port the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:39 p.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Report and Third Reading of Bills Bill Pr406, Ver-Tel Communications Ltd. (Corpo- rate Restoration) Act, 2003, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. G. Collins: By leave, I call Bill Pr407. [1440] Leave granted. Second Reading of Bills BURON CONSTRUCTION LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 V. Anderson: I move the bill now be read for a sec- ond time.

It returns Buron Construction to the register of companies. Motion approved. V. Anderson: I move, by leave, that the bill be re- ferred to a Committee of the Whole House to be con- sidered forthwith. Leave granted. Bill Pr407, Buron Construction Ltd. (Corporate Res- toration) Act, 2003, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith. Committee of the Whole House BURON CONSTRUCTION LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill Pr407; H. Long in the chair.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7627 The committee met at 2:41 p.m. Sections 1 to 4 inclusive approved.

Preamble approved. Title approved. V. Anderson: I move that the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:42 p.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Report and Third Reading of Bills Bill Pr407, Buron Construction Ltd. (Corporate Res- toration) Act, 2003, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. G. Collins: I call Bill Pr408. Leave granted. Second Reading of Bills BURON CONSTRUCTION

(1986) LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 V. Anderson: I move that the bill now be read a second time. It's a bill to restore Buron Construction to the regis- ter of companies. Motion approved. V. Anderson: By leave, I move that the bill be re- ferred to a Committee of the Whole House to be con- sidered forthwith. Leave granted. Bill Pr408, Buron Construction

(1986) Ltd. (Corpo- rate Restoration) Act, 2003, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for con- sideration forthwith. Committee of the Whole House BURON CONSTRUCTION

(1986) LTD. (CORPORATE RESTORATION) ACT, 2003 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill Pr408; H. Long in the chair. The committee met at 2:43 p.m. Sections 1 to 4 inclusive approved.

Preamble approved. Title approved. V. Anderson: I move the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:44 p.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Report and Third Reading of Bills Bill Pr408, Buron Construction

(1986) Ltd. (Corpo- rate Restoration) Act, 2003, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed. Hon. G. Collins: I call Committee of the Whole for consideration of Bill 72. [1445] Committee of the Whole House MANUFACTURED HOME ACT The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 72; H. Long in the chair. The committee met at 2:46 p.m. Sections 1 to 6 inclusive approved. On

section 7. Hon. G. Collins: On

section 7, I move the amend- ment standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 7, (

a) by deleting the proposed subsection (2) and substituting the following:

(2) The regulations may require that notices respecting particular classes of transfers be submitted for filing only through persons specified by regulation or designated as qualified suppliers by the registrar. , and (

b) in the proposed subsection (5) by adding "or designated" after "specified".] Amendment approved.

Section 7 as amended approved. Sections 8 to 20 inclusive approved. On

section 21. Hon. G. Collins: I move the amendment to

section 21 standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 21, (

a) by deleting the proposed subsection (3) and substituting the following:

7628 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003

(3) The regulations may require that applications respecting particular classes of exemptions be submitted for filing only through persons specified by regulation or designated as qualified suppliers by the registrar. , and (

b) in the proposed subsection (4) by adding "or designated" after "specified".] Amendment approved.

Section 21 as amended approved. Sections 22 to 31 inclusive approved. On

section 32. Hon. G. Collins: I move the amendment to

section 32 standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 32, by deleting the proposed subsection (1) and substituting the following:

(1) Unless the manufactured home complies in all respects with the standards prescribed by regulation at the time it was manufactured or is exempted from this

section by the regulations or by the registrar, a person must not move, sell, offer for sale or advertise for sale a previously unoccupied manufactured home or a manufactured home that was manufactured after May 15, 1992.] Amendment approved.

Section 32 as amended approved. On

section 33. Hon. G. Collins: I move the amendment to

section 33 standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 33, by deleting the proposed

section and substituting the following: Disclosure statement to be provided to prospective purchaser 33

(1) A person must not sell or offer for sale a used or previously occupied manufactured home unless (

a) the person discloses in writing to any prospective purchaser whether or not the manufactured home complies with the standards prescribed by regulation, or (

b) the manufactured home is exempted from this

section by the regulations or by the registrar. (2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the person discloses in writing to any prospective purchaser that the manufactured home was manufactured on or before May 15, 1992.] Amendment approved.

Section 33 as amended approved. Sections 34 to 37 inclusive approved. On

section 38. Hon. G. Collins: I move the amendment to

section 38 standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 38, in the proposed subsection (5) by striking out "or 33" and substituting "or 33 (1)".] Amendment approved.

Section 38 as amended approved. Sections 39 to 47 inclusive approved. On

section 47.1. Hon. G. Collins: I move the amendment to add

section 47.1 standing in my name on the order paper. [SECTION 47.1, by adding the following section: Registry Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 47.1

Section 3 of the Registry Statutes Amendment Act, 2002, S.B.C. 2002, c. 17, is repealed.] Sections 47.1 to 50 inclusive approved. Title approved. Hon. G. Collins: I move the committee rise and report the bill complete with amendments. Motion approved. The committee rose at 2:48 p.m. The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair. Reporting of Bills Bill 72, Manufactured Home Act, reported complete with amendments. Third Reading of Bills Mr. Speaker: When shall the bill be considered as read? Hon. G. Collins: By leave, now, Mr. Speaker. Leave granted. Bill 72, Manufactured Home Act, read a third time and passed. Hon.

G. Collins: I call second reading of Bill 86. Second Reading of Bills BUSINESS CORPORATIONS AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2003 Hon. G. Collins: I move that the bill now be read a second time. As part of the plan to reform and modernize the corporate laws of British Columbia, the Business Cor- porations Amendment Act (No. 2.), 2003 makes addi- tional refinements to the Business Corporations Act by

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7629 replacing approximately 15 sections of the current Bill 60. The Business Corporations Act will be proclaimed in the spring of 2004. [1450] The amendments in this bill are primarily technical in nature. They correct errors, clarify language in the application of provisions and address gaps identified during the public consultation since the passage of the Business Corporation Act and the introduction of Bill 60 last spring.

They also reflect further refinements in the development of the corporate registry's automated filing system and address transitional issues for pre- existing companies. Finally, the bill contains further consequential amendments to legislation, which reference the current Company Act to reflect the change of name and the new language and processes of the Business Corpora- tions Act. Together, the amendments in Bill 60 and Bill 86 will ensure that a solid legislative framework is in place as we implement the new Business Corporations Act in the spring of 2004. Mr. Speaker, I move second reading. B.

Locke: I'm pleased to speak to second reading of Bill 86, intituled the Business Corporations Amend- ment Act (No. 2), 2003. This is an amendment to Bill 46, which received royal assent last year. The Ministry of Finance should be applauded for modernizing a key piece of legislation that will assist in achieving a com- petitive environment for constituents in my riding and throughout the province. The prior act was significantly out of date in terms of keeping up with corporate law developments and technical advancements.

Thanks to the minister's pro- active ministry, it is now much easier to form and op- erate small businesses in B.C. Thanks to the minister's forward thinking, companies and the public alike will have electronic access to the corporate registry and will offer on-line corporate services seven days a week, 24 hours a day. This piece of legislation reflects solid business prin- ciples. Firstly, government should be service-oriented. Secondly, government should be transparent.

Thirdly, government should be held responsible for keeping public services updated, logical and modern for all constituents, including the business sector. In reading through the act, one finds embedded common sense, a rational and sensible approach. In simple terms, we are making it easier for busi- nesses to succeed in B.C., opening the door and en- couraging investment as one more step in making B.C. the number one place to do business not only nation- ally but internationally. The minister deserves to be thanked for his commitment to developing this impor- tant piece of legislation. Motion approved. Hon. G.

Collins: I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for consideration by Committee of the Whole at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 86, Business Corporations Amendment Act (No. 2), 2003, read a second time and referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. G. Collins: I call second reading of Bill 87. UNCLAIMED PROPERTY AMENDMENT ACT (No. 2), 2003 Hon. G. Collins: I move that the bill be now read a second time.

The Unclaimed Property Amendment Act (No. 2), 2003 incorporates into legislation a recognition of the role of the courts and the judiciary in determining dis- position of unclaimed court trust funds under the un- claimed property legislation. The amendments provide for regulations to be es- tablished that will define when court trust funds could be considered unclaimed property and available for transfer to the non-profit administrator that is operat- ing the ministry's unclaimed property program. Regu- lations will also establish the rights and duties of the administrator in relation to unclaimed court funds.

These regulations will contain the process rules and will be established through further discussion and con- sultation with court administrators and representatives of the judiciary. The amendments require that before these regula- tions can be made, the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council must receive the recommendation of the Attorney General, after the Attorney General has consulted with the Chief Justice or Chief Judge of each of the three levels of courts in British Columbia. This is the same process used for changing rules under the Court Rules Act.

In addition, the approval of a justice, judge, regis- trar or master is required before the Minister of Finance can pay unclaimed court funds to the administrator. Hence, the amendments provide for greater control by the courts and the judiciary in determining when court trust funds could be considered unclaimed and in con- trolling the disposition of unclaimed court funds. The amendments provide that the non-profit ad- ministrator must make reasonable efforts to locate the potential owners of unclaimed court funds.

If the ad- ministrator locates a person who was a party to a court action, but there was no order from the court determin- ing who is the owner of the funds, then the administra- tor must refer the person to the court to obtain that determination. Only in cases where the court has made a determination of ownership can unclaimed court funds be paid out by the administrator. When un- claimed court funds are transferred to the administra- tor, they're deemed to be unclaimed money and are no longer held in trust.

However, an owner's claim is never extinguished until their funds are paid to them. [1455] The amendments to the Unclaimed Property Act also address two minor housekeeping items. One of the amendments supports deregulation by removing the

7630 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 requirements for a regulation to prescribe where the administrator must keep administrative records. The other housekeeping amendment releases the adminis- trator from the existing

schedule of fees for searching for and copying records in a court registry. Provision is made to establish an alternative

schedule of fees if one should be required in the future. Mr. Speaker, I move second reading. Motion approved. Hon. G. Collins: I move that the bill be referred to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 87, Unclaimed Property Amendment Act (No. 2), 2003, read a second time and referred to a Commit- tee of the Whole House for consideration at the next sitting of the House after today. Hon. G. Collins: I call second reading of Bill 63, and we'll just await the arrival of the Attorney General. YOUTH JUSTICE ACT Hon. G.

Plant: I move the bill be now read a second time. While our justice system is broadly concerned with ensuring that there is fairness, and our criminal justice system is concerned with ensuring that we have safe streets and safe communities, the justice system has also long recognized differences in the way in which we treat young persons as opposed to the way we treat adults who are in conflict with the law. The Youth Jus- tice Act will allow us to express these differences by creating a new act that is specifically written for young persons. The Youth Justice Act does the following.

It repeals the existing Young Offenders (British Columbia) Act, which is no longer consistent with federal legislation, and it repeals the youth provisions in the existing Cor- rection Act and then places these in the Youth Justice Act, which will leave the Correction Act as a statute that applies only to adults. The Youth Justice Act consolidates all of the rele- vant and up-to-date provisions from both acts into one new stand-alone Youth Justice Act written specifically for youth.

One of the main objectives of the new federal Youth Criminal Justice Act, which came into force on April 1 of this year, is to utilize alternatives to custody and alternatives to court where possible and where that is the best justice system outcome, and at the same time ensure that youth face serious consequences for serious offences. [1500] I'm pleased to say that in British Columbia, we util- ize alternatives to court and custody where that is the right thing to do. We have extensive diversion and alternative-measures programs in place, and we are a leader among Canadian jurisdictions in this regard.

It is also important to note that our provincial legis- lation and this bill will ensure that serious conse- quences are available as a sentencing option for six significant provincial statute offences that previously could only attract non-custodial dispositions. These offences include the offence of threatening the safety and security of youth custody centres and adult correc- tional centres by bringing in contraband to those places, a serious offence because it threatens the integ- rity of the work done in the youth custody centres and the safety of those who are in custody and those who work there.

Another offence is the offence of trespassing on school property. This is an offence, of course, that can arise in a number of contexts. Those contexts include the possibility that trespass will occur when young people are being recruited for criminal gang activity or sexual exploitation. We take school property seriously in British Columbia. Trespassing on school property is already an offence, and this act will ensure that cus- tody is now available as a potential disposition for young offenders who commit that offence.

A third example of the offences where custody will now be available as a sentencing option is the offence of breaching a restraining order under the Child, Fam- ily and Community Service Act, as restraining orders can be made against young persons to prevent them from sexually exploiting children or other youth. At the same time, offences where an adult would receive more than six months incarceration will now attract up to 90 days in custody — not the maximum of 30 days, which is presently the case in the law of British Columbia.

For example, under the Motor Vehicle Act these offences include driving while prohibited, driving while prohibited by court order or operation of law, and driving while one's licence is suspended. Breaching a restraining order under the Child, Family and Commu- nity Service Act would also be included as an offence capable of attracting up to 90 days in custody.

This bill and the new Youth Justice Act that it will bring into force also support the work being done by the Ministry of Children and Family Development, which has primary responsibility for youth justice in British Columbia and, in particular, the work being done by that ministry to devolve youth justice pro- grams and services to regional and aboriginal authori- ties.

The changes and the work being done by that min- istry include enabling communities to develop and deliver youth justice services within a consolidated, coherent, community-based service delivery system as well as building capacity within aboriginal communi- ties to deliver a full range of youth justice services. Services to youth in conflict with the law are an important component of the broader services to chil- dren, youth and families. Including youth justice ser- vices in the community government's model will sup- port the continued integration of these services in the best interests of these youth.

This approach is also con- sistent with the new federal legislation, which supports a multidisciplinary, rehabilitative approach to youth who commit offences.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7631 As I said, Mr. Speaker, the Youth Justice Act is

an act that is specifically written for young people — young people who need special safeguards — that ac- knowledges their greater level of dependency and re- duced level of maturity and, at the same time, that en- sures that young offenders are held accountable for their actions. [1505] This bill will allow British Columbia to continue to be a leader in youth justice issues, to ensure that the best possible range of outcomes and tools are available for those who have to deal with young people in con- flict with the law and to send a message, which I think s h o u l d b e h e a r d b y y o u n g o f f e n d e r s , t h a t w i t h i n t h e limits of our ability to do so in the laws of British Co- lumbia, the Legislature of British Columbia believes young offenders should be accountable for their wrongdoing.

I look forward to the remarks of other members. J. Kwan: Here we go again. Once again this gov- ernment, in all of its incompetence and arrogance to- wards this House, brings in a brand-new piece of legis- lation one day and then calls second reading the next. Last week it was the revamped Residential Tenancy Act, introduced for the first time Monday and then called for debate less than 24 hours later without in- forming any of the stakeholders affected. I should recall for the benefit of this House that this was a bill whose sole purpose was to amend two bills brought in by this government just last year.

They needed to amend two of their own flawed bills from 2002 after ignoring what stakeholders told them was wrong with the bills the first time around. You would think the government would learn from mistakes like that. You'd think they would put a little bit more thought into legislation and into the process of bringing legislation before this House. Instead, they brought their new tenancy bill in on a Monday and then called second reading on it the next morning. Here we are again.

Once again we have a bill that is introduced — in this case, a brand-new bill — and it is up for debate in second reading less than 24 hours later. Here's how this government operates. Yesterday morn- ing the government announces to the media that it is bringing in a brand-new Youth Justice Act. It doesn't first tell stakeholders about the new legislation. They were just as blindsided as we were in the opposition.

When the government gets around to properly in- troducing the bill, the Attorney General tells the House that the new Youth Justice Act parallels the federal Youth Criminal Justice Act "by ensuring that serious consequences are available as a sentencing option." I guess this government decided that the best way to deal with this issue was to put on a good cop–bad cop act, because the job of explaining the bill outside the House was given to the Solicitor General.

The message he was hammering home was that the federal govern- ment wasn't tough enough on youth crime and that the new federal legislation was too soft because it reduced jail sentences for jail offences for youth. Come to think of it, maybe instead of the good cop– bad cop act, this is more of a partisan split we are see- ing — the kind of split specific to this motley crew called the B.C. Liberals. Of course, there are the B.C. Liberals who, like the Solicitor General, have more in common with the Alliance Party than anyone else, who take great delight in stomping all over anything the federal Liberals do.

Then there are those in the B.C. Liberal government who are less, shall we say, squeamish about the L-word, who find it less conven- ient to trash the federal government, and perhaps their Attorney General falls more into that camp. The fact is that people who work in youth justice think the federal Youth Criminal Justice Act is actually pretty good legislation.

The reason the federal justice act is well regarded is that it separated violent crime from non-violent crime at the same time as it signified a shift in philosophy away from custody for the sake of custody and towards rehabilitating youth, because just putting kids in custody accomplishes nothing, or per- haps worse. To listen to the Solicitor General, that is his whole purpose with this bill. Even the representative of the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police said, in response to this legislation: "Kids in jail aren't a good thing for anyone.

It's not good for the kids, not good for society, and it's not good for the generation growing up." He goes on to add somewhat halfheartedly that it would seem that if the new penalties are seen as meaningful and a true deterrent to young people, that would be a good thing. Here's what this government says this bill will ac- complish: "Under the new act, youth can now face time in custody for six serious provincial statute offences where previously probation was the most severe sentence available. As well, youth can now face more time in custody for other provincial statute offences.

"Youth who trespass on school property for the purposes of sexual exploitation or gang activity can now face custody instead of fines, community service or probation. "Youth who violate the Motor Vehicle Act by driving while prohibited or suspended could now face up to 90 days in custody instead of a maximum of 30. "Youth who bring contraband into a youth custody centre or adult correctional centre can now face custody instead of fines, community service or probation." [1510] That's what this government has in mind, but the question is: in the real world, is that how it works?

Do youth about to commit a crime ask themselves: "Wait, I wonder if this is one of those six areas of provincial jurisdiction that the Solicitor General said in the news- p a p e r t h a t h e w a s g o i n g t o c o m e d o w n o n w i t h a hammer. Gee, maybe I better rethink this"? No one who works with youth in the real world believes that. We contacted people working in the youth justice area today and asked them about this bill. Well, first we had to tell them what the bill was called, when it was introduced. Then we went so far as to find the bill for them, because it was news for them — they

7632 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 weren't contacted; they weren't advised — just as it was news to the opposition yesterday. We talked about the bill at some length this morning with the Victoria Boys and Girls Club, because they are responsible for most of the youth justice contracts in the city here. After telling us that they couldn't really com- ment until they knew what the legislation was about, that they are only seeing what was reported in the media….

I must say that it's now becoming a familiar story that people actually don't know what this government is bringing forward in legislation in spite of their claim that they consult and they're open and accountable. People don't know about it, and they have to depend on the media to find out. What the Boys and Girls Club told us is that any approach to youth justice has to be a multi-faceted ap- proach. It has to include education, incarceration and support, and the most important piece of that is inten- sive support for the youth, the family and the commu- nity.

The Boys and Girls Club said that if this bill is just about incarcerating kids without increasing support in the community, then it is neither in line with the new federal legislation, nor would it be a positive move. We also talked to respected criminologist Jim Hac- kler of the University of Victoria, who did some radio interviews on Bill 63 today, and he also spoke to our staff. On the radio, he was asked if he thought this government's new youth justice would provide the deterrent the Solicitor General is promising, and he w a s v e r y c l e a r .

H e s a i d — and he laid out what evi- dence has shown — that youth behaviour is influenced by peer pressure, by the push to establish status amongst peers, and that to act as if youth weigh rela- tive penalties is a simple-minded approach on the part of the government. He actually wondered how the Minister of Chil- dren and Family Development, a former superinten- dent of a youth custody centre, could let his colleagues, such as the Solicitor General and the Attorney General — and he specifically singled out the Human Re- sources minister — act in such a silly way.

What a gov- ernment should be asking, Professor Hackler stated, is: what is the best way to prevent juvenile delinquency and deviant behaviour? That showy, swaggering talk about getting tough on crime is not the answer. The professor also said the bill was irrelevant, that it had and would have no impact as a deterrent but was instead window dressing for the public. It's not because it is completely divorced from the reality of the causes of juvenile delinquency and criminal behaviour, but also because the province has jurisdiction over such a small proportion of youth crimes.

Professor Hackler reiterated the view of the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police, stat- ing that we don't gain anything by putting kids in cus- tody and that the only way to have any impact is to in- tervene very early — at ages two, three, four and five — when aggressive behaviour is first demonstrated. [1515] He cited definitive studies from the United States which show that when impoverished families receive support early, 15 years later we see a reduction by roughly half in terms of risky and delinquent behav- iour among youth.

That is also supported by a recent report given to the government entitled Profiling the Repeat Offender: Implications for Early Interventio n by Nicholson and Artz, 2003. It is a report that this gov- ernment actually paid for but then is ignoring its rec- ommendations. Here is the concluding

summary of that report: "Although the authors cited in this review offer many valuable suggestions for improving the effectiveness of treatment in custodial programs, we're destined to fail our most vulnerable youth if we focus all our energies on providing youth justice responses to their misbehaviour. Our child welfare, education and mental health systems must also have prominent roles in responding to the needs of these youth.

"We see that focusing on early prevention and intervention may provide the best chance for reducing recidivism by preventing children's involvement in the youth justice system in the first place. The evidence points to the need for very early intervention for at-risk children — i.e., from the age of zero to five — and their families. "Solid steps in early prevention include the early identification of aggressive children.

In order to implement interventions that support these children and their families, we can begin by taking more seriously parents' and teachers' concerns regarding aggressive behaviour in young children. We need to offer parenting supports for families, develop and fund school-based identification and intervention programs, and ensure that effective links are developed between prevention and intervention initiatives. Improved integration of funding and operation of all child-serving organizations is imperative.

"If we take seriously the proven relationship between poverty and youth delinquency, we would do more to e n s u r e t h a t p a r e n t s o f y o u n g c h i l d r e n h a v e a c c e s s t o employment opportunities. We would consider implementing graduation incentive programs to motivate youth to finish their high school education. "In our prevention work with children, youth and families, and in our work with young offenders, we must improve our approach to assessment by focusing more closely on needs.

We need to work diligently to further our understanding of and sensitivity to the role of gender in youthful offending. We need to learn more about the specific and the special situation of youthful offending within the Canadian context. We would do well to target effective interventions on all young offenders when they commit their first offences, especially if a first offence is committed before the age of 15.

"Finally, providing sufficient supports to youth leaving custody constitutes our last chance to prevent the further involvement in youthful offending." These are the conclusions of a report paid for by this government entitled Profiling the Repeat Offender: Impli- cations for Early Intervention, by Nicholson and Artz. It is a shame that this government is ignoring its recom- mendations. Of course, as we know too well, this government is going in completely the opposite direction.

This is the government that is refusing young people — the very target age of this bill — any assistance whatsoever unless they can prove they have been independent for two years in a row. I'm talking now about the assis-

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7633 tance for income assistance. I'll try to keep my sarcasm in check here, because somehow I think that providing some income to a 19-year-old girl might protect her from life in the sex trade a little bit more effectively than giving potential pimps 30 days in jail. T h i s i s t h e g o v e r n m e n t t h a t ' s a l s o r e d u c i n g s o c i a l assistance to young families by as much as $200 a month.

This is the government that, in one of its first acts, scrapped universal child care, cut child care sub- sidies and made it next to impossible for poor working families to provide the kind of quality early childhood education that has been proven to be the best preven- tion of youth crime. This is the government that has brought the six-bucks- sucks minimum wage, a wage that most affects immi- grants — immigrant women and their families. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of B.C.'s minimum-wage earners are women over 19 and not youth.

This is the gov- ernment that cut an award-winning anti-bullying pro- gram that was working in our schools, that has cut funds to the B.C. safe schools initiatives and to popular, success- ful programs such as Rock Solid. [1520] This is also the government that has threatened other crucial school-based programs so many times that the parents, teachers and the administrators who banded together to save these programs have been exhausted by the gruelling and shameful process.

This is the government that raised tuition fees and cut first- year grants to post-secondary students, making it harder for youth to enter college and university. This is also the government — and here we are getting to ar- eas closer to the Attorney General's own field — that slashed the Crown prosecutor's budget and cut victim services. This is the government that closed court- houses and jails and now, with this bill, will be putting greater pressure on that very system. Does the Attorney General think this is the way to run a justice system?

Does he think the Solicitor Gen- eral and the Premier's tough talk about getting tough on youth will actually work in the real world — that it is actually a disincentive? Or does he not agree that this is all about politics? The nuts and bolts of the bill would appear, after the brief examination possible in the time allowed by this government, to be mainly about responding to the new federal Youth Criminal Justice Act, about bringing statutes concerning youth under one provincial act and making the provincial language match the federal bill's language.

The statistics on youth crime in B.C. actually show that youth crime is on the decrease, as in the number of youth in custody. I will read from the Ministry of Chil- dren and Family Development youth justice webpage that takes pride in these declines and credits its own community-based alternative programs. "B.C.'s num- ber of youth in custody has declined steadily over the last ten years….

This decline can be attributed to a drop in…youth crime…including violent crime, to in- tegrated case management and to the addition of community-based alternative programs and other treatment services." The politics this government is playing here, maybe because they are a little sensitive about the board of trade's stinging criticisms over the rise in property crime, is to add some tough measures on crime to this bill and then take it to the public, hoping the public will respond positively to this kind of pandering. We don't think people are that gullible.

We think people understand the real world because they, unlike this government, actually live in it. They know that what influences youth is not the tough talk of his colleagues but the kind of deep, serious cuts to the programs that vulnerable families depend on — the cuts to school- based programs and child care, the cuts to legal aid and other services made by this government that un- dermine support for children and their families. That is what really affects kids. Outside of the House the Attorney General is, I guess, not trusted to carry the media show.

He's not seen to be able to carry the message of being tough on crime, but I guess the Attorney General gets his chance here in the House to say what he thinks about this bill. I'll be glad to discuss the many issues that arise as a result of this bill at committee stage. If this government is sincere in addressing and wanting to decrease crime amongst the youth population, wanting to ensure that young people have a chance to succeed, then they would rescind some of their very punitive policies and the budget cuts in the areas that provide support to the youth and families in our communities.

It is well documented, not just from the report I put on record that I just quoted moments earlier. There is just a full library of research that has already been done, which demonstrates that early intervention is the key. Cutting supports for families, putting more stress on them, threatening that the government will cut families — single parents with children over the age of three on income assistance — off of income assistance, out of some arbitrary time limit, will not assist in this process. It will, in fact, put more stress on the system, more stress on the families, more stress on the commu- nity. [H.

Long in the chair.] [1525] It would put youth at greater risk of coming into conflict with the law, of not being able to finish school, perhaps getting involved in alcohol and drugs. The solution and the answers are clear. The reports are there. Don't take my word for it. I know the govern- ment members just cast aside anything the opposition has to say, but look to the libraries that are full with the reports that tell you that early intervention is the an- swer. The cuts and the deepest cuts are still yet to come in the next budget year and the year after. That is not the answer.

It is not too late for this government to admit that they're wrong in the budget exercise, that they want to invest in youth and families and in these pro- grams to support our communities in a way that would be effective for the long term and not to engage in just

7634 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 cheap politics and try to win political scores with the tough talk on crime. The government needs to act in providing the sup- ports that are necessary. It is time for this government to put their money where their mouth is. Hon. G. Hogg: I was interested in the comments made by the opposition and certainly heard, as I lis- tened through and tried to distil what I heard, some of the principles and comments being made within those.

I think that I heard at least five perhaps objectives, if not principles, within that conversation, one of them being the notion of prevention. Certainly, I think all of us would agree and know that prevention is the right focus and the right place and the right direction for all of us to go in terms of issues of youth justice. That's, in fact, why this government and this Pre- mier have appointed a Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.

That's why we focused so much of our resources on early childhood develop- ment, so that we can look at early and positive begin- nings for children as they work their way through to adulthood. It is why the Ministry of Children and Fam- ily Development has focused so many of its dollars on family prevention, on family development, supporting and assisting the needs of families as they look at and manage the challenges that face them. The member talked about consultation and made reference to the Boys and Girls Club of Victoria. It's clear that we have been an actively consultative gov- ernment.

In this ministry we've consulted with over 14,000 people in this province around the issues of ser- vices to children in this province. In fact, we spoke with the Boys and Girls Club just today, the Boys and Girls Club of Victoria as well, and they said they have an excellent relationship with our ministry staff and are very pleased with that working relationship and the direction and the consultation taking place.

There was discussion of the integration of ser- vices, and, clearly, what we've been doing in this min- istry and in this government is trying to coordinate s e r v i c e s s o t h a t w e h a v e a c o o r d i n a t e d , i n t e g r a t e d service delivery model that provides for comprehen- sive service delivery. We talked about wanting to harmonize with the federal legislation so that we can ensure that we are facilitating and enabling the fed- e r a l l e g i s l a t i o n t o d o w h a t i t i s f o c u s e d o n a n d i n - tended to do. There was reference made to services outside of custody.

The custody was not the right and most appropriate way of responding to the needs of children at risk. Certainly, we concur with that. How- ever, there are times and there is research which will show that many of the children coming into custody, perhaps as many as 90 percent, have alcohol and drug issues, are actually under the influence of alcohol and drugs.

This piece of legislation will allow us, for those high-risk children who are problematic — who do present a risk to the public — to be able to slow them down for a moment, to be able to provide the services to them which wouldn't otherwise be available to them. There are so often — and the Attorney General made reference to some of those people, as an example, coming onto a schoolground who may be in breach of an order, an order under the Child, Family and Com- munity Services Act and a restraining order placed within that….

This legislation will allow us to hold onto that person for a moment in time, to be able to provide them with some of the services that they may need access to because of some of the issues and prob- lems which they may be facing. I know that this government has taken a very fo- cused, very evidence-based process and direction in dealing with the issues as they apply to youth justice.

They are complex, they are integrated, but the model that we've put forward in this province is one that does that. [1530] Bill 63 represents another step in the consolidation of youth justice services within an integrated service delivery system to be provided for children and youth. In fact, the former government in 1997 transferred youth justice services to the then Ministry for Children and Families. I trust they had a belief that integration and the model we're following is the right one to fol- low.

In fact, when we were in opposition, we sup- ported that transition and that change because of our belief and recognition of the need to have a compre- hensive approach. We've continued that integration by including youth justice services on an ongoing basis as part of the full range of services which are provided to children and youth. The ministry has taken this youth-centred approach to hiring and training staff. We've taken that approach in service delivery, and we've taken it in pro- gram planning, so it's a broad-based spectrum of ser- vices that looks at and responds to the needs of all children.

We have now, and I think most observers across Canada would agree, probably the most progressive youth justice system in Canada. We have taken a very positive approach. We have had a community-based approach. Most observers will say, when they look at it — many of them have reviewed it, and criminologists in British Columbia will support that — that it is the most progressive youth justice system in Canada.

Youth probation officers' caseloads are now half of what they were in 1997, allowing for better case plan- ning, better case management of young offenders and indeed, through that process, better protection of the public. Youth forensic psychiatric treatment resources, addiction treatment resources and community-based intensive support and supervision services for young offenders have been substantially enhanced over the past few years. A new program has just been initiated.

A program of family group conferencing has been introduced as a way of using dispute mechanisms within the context of community rather than using the court systems — again looking at ways that we can integrate, coordinate and provide services that respond to the best interests of children and have the best outcomes. The number of

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7635 youth in custody is now less than half of what it was in 1997. Youth and their families are receiving better ser- vices, and most importantly, the public is now better served. This legislation represents another step in that progress. Youth justice services have been legislatively man- dated in the past through the Correction Act,

an act which was primarily designed to address adult offend- ers. The bill before us now, the proposed Youth Justice Act, ensures that provincial legislation regarding youth justice is youth-focused. It emphasizes rehabilitation and integration of youth in conflict with the law and thereby better serves the needs of youth, their families and the public interest. E. Brenzinger: I'm standing today in the House to support Bill 63. I want to applaud the minister, the At- torney General, for the bill, because he has actually shown that he listens to the public, and this is what the public wants.

We want to be clear that tougher consequences are for those youth who know right from wrong. However, today I would like to highlight that the number of in- mates may be decreased in the future with more early intervention. I refer to children at risk who have mental health issues or who are developmentally delayed but are not identified while young. One thing this government has done is create a ministry for mental health and a ministry for early childhood development. I was listening to the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, and I have to say….

Working in this field for ten years prior to becoming an MLA, I can tell you that the past government did not have those ministries and watered down the services to these children at risk. [1535] Education on mental health disorders is important for caregivers, parents, educators and professionals to be very knowledgable to ensure that children at risk are identified and given the support they need while they are young.

Perhaps the frustration, the lack of acceptance in school, fears, low self-esteem and social skills — just to name a few — turn some of these teen- agers or youths to drugs or alcohol because it's so diffi- cult to function in society with disabilities. If we can identify those youths — o r c h i l d r e n , b e f o r e t h e y b e - come youths — and give them the supports and the security of knowing that they're okay, we could proba- bly cut down on the number of youth going into the criminal system, because they would be able to have the support systems there that they need.

I support this bill because I believe that the youth who know right from wrong should know that there are hard consequences for them when they do some- thing wrong. I think the public has made that very clear. Certainly, in my office in Surrey-Whalley it's been very clear that we would like to see tougher pen- a l t i e s . T h e o t h e r s i d e o f i t i s t h a t w e d o a l o t o f e a r l y intervention to identify the kids. I know there's a high nu m b e r o f F A S c hi l d re n who g ro w u p and e nd u p i n the system through frustration, etc.

I just want to applaud again the Attorney General for this bill — I think it's going to be a really successful bill — along with the other ministries: the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Children and Family De- velopment and, of course, the Minister of State for Early Childhood Development. D. Hayer: I'm very happy to rise to speak in favour of this act. I agree with the basis of this act, which calls for a greater deterrence for young people to commit crime.

You know that more than 90 percent of our kids are good, hard-working students and law-abiding, but it is those few who flaunt their disregard for the law or for society. They have no respect for any authority, for private property or for lives they impact with their criminal activities. O n e o f t h e b i g g e s t p r o b l e m s w e h a v e w i t h y o u t h crime and violence is that they think they are protected under the law. They think they can get away with it, doing whatever they want. This bill will change some of that attitude, because now some of them won't be getting away with it scot-free anymore.

Too often we hear of young criminals who are caught by the police again and again, but because there is little the police can do to these young offenders, they're back on the street right away, looking for more trouble to cause. I'm a firm believer that if you do the crime, you should do the time. Bill 63 provides for greater time for youth offences. That is good, and per- haps it may make some other young troublemakers think twice before they infringe on the rights of others. This act is as much about respect for others as it is about increasing penalties for crime, and that is a good thing.

I support Bill 63 because it will contribute to safer communities. It will help make our schools better and safer places to be in. I believe it is one more step to- ward a reduction in youth crime. That is one more tool we have to change the attitude on the street today that kids can get away with anything because there are no deterrents. Only with acts such as this will we be able to convince renegade youth that there is some punish- ment waiting for them, and if they break the law, they have to pay the price. This act is one more step in re- turning respect to the victims, and that is good news. L.

Mayencourt: It's an honour to be able to rise and speak on Bill 63, the Youth Justice Act. When we got elected, we had a New Era document. It had a lot of promises in it, and many of those promises we have met, and there are others to fulfil. One that has been particularly close to my heart is the one about creating safer communities and safer streets. [1540] Over the last week we've had a lot of conversation in this House about safety, community safety, crime and all of those issues.

Today the Premier, in response to a question, once again reaffirmed his commitment to safer communities for all of British Columbia. This is something that is very fundamental to our govern- ment. It's very, very important for us, because most of

7636 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 the people who live in British Columbia are good, law- abiding citizens. They are people who deserve to live their lives free of fear and free of the tragedy that so often is accompanied by crime. It's a really important promise that we made and one that I work on virtually every day just to ensure that we in this House put our minds to this in a very concerted way and face and make choices that we need to do to provide that safety for people. Bill 63 is the result of a lot of work and a lot of con- sultation.

It comes, really, out of some changes to the federal Young Offenders Act, which was recently changed — in April of 2003, I believe. The introduction of that bill gave us an opportunity to take a look at our Young Offenders Act. It gave us an opportunity to take a look at it in terms of what we're trying to accomplish for British Columbia in terms of community safety and in terms of looking after young people. It gave us that opportunity to have a conversation with many indi- viduals here in this chamber and also outside of this chamber about some of the challenges we face when it comes to youth crime.

The bill here fulfils some very important objectives. It brings us into line with the new federal act. It matches the terminology they've used in the federal act. It gives us an opportunity to be consistent from the federal act to the provincial act, and I think that's a great benefit to British Columbians. Part of the problem you have with provincial statutes and federal laws is that sometimes people aren't really clear on what the message and consistency are. That consistency is achieved with this act.

It also parallels some of the federal legislation in terms of the types of punishments or the consequences that are available to us when we are faced with the unfortunate circumstance of a young offender. It al- lows us to increase some penalties for, I believe, six different offences in British Columbia that are more in keeping with the kind of spirit of what the province is feeling and is concerned about. I think that's the very important work we are undertaking here today.

I listened to the member for Vancouver–Mount Pleasant, the member for Surrey-Whalley, the member for Surrey-Tynehead and also the Minister of Children and Family Development. All of them started to refer- ence some of the things we do. All of them mentioned things we could be doing, and everyone starts at the very beginning. At the very beginning is a little baby — a little baby that, if we invest in, if we nurture, if we provide opportunity to….

If we provide the kinds of resources that they need in families, and what have you, those kinds of things we can do at the beginning of a child's life really have a profound effect on how they turn out as adults. It has a profound effect on how a family looks and how a community looks and how a province looks. There are many things we can do. One of the things we've done in this government, which was referenced by other members here today, was create a Minister of State for Early Childhood Development.

That speaks volumes about the kind of commitment this govern- ment has to children and families in this province. It's something I'm really very proud of.

When I speak to the Minister for Early Childhood Development — we had a meeting in my office in Vancouver just on Satur- day — I know I've got someone there that's compas- sionate and understands the issues and that knows it's really important to move forward and to protect chil- dren, to provide families with the kind of mentoring and the supports they need so that their children can grow up and live successful lives. [1545] The Minister of Children and Family Development has talked about some of the initiatives that he's going through right now.

The Ministry of Children and Fam- ily Development is moving the model of service deliv- e r y i n t o r e g i o n s . W h y ? W e l l , i t j u s t h a p p e n s t o m a k e very good sense for the people of, say, the northwest or the interior to be able to deal with the issues in their communities in ways that make sense for those same communities.

The minister has gone to great lengths, and he's been applauded by youth service providers all across this province for the intensive consultation he has en- gaged in, for the planning he's put into this, for his ability to come up with the right amount of money to support children and families in British Columbia. It is another measure of this government's commitment to kids, to families and to communities. It's something that is very, very important and something that we need to remember. We're talking here about crime and punishment, but really we're talking about: how do we fix a prob- lem?

Those two ministries are all about getting ahead of the problem, and I think that's a really important thing that we sometimes forget in this House, or maybe the public forgets — that we are doing things to protect children before they have a problem. That's important. We've also created a Minister of State for Mental Health. I know that minister very well. We've met on many occasions to talk about the variety of things that we can do. You know, we look at the Youth Justice Act and often…. I mean, I look at it and I go: some of those kids have mental health problems, and what are we d oi ng f or t hem?

W hat c an we do fo r them? Ho w c an we m ak e t he i r l i f e b e t t e r ? W e d o , b e c au s e we 'v e put our minds to mental health as addiction services, as something that is deserving of a minister — an advocate for all of British Columbia. His passion for the job he has before him, for his ability to reach into the lives of British Columbians and protect those who are less fortunate than us and who live with mental illness…. It's a fact of life.

There are a lot of British Columbi- ans who face those kinds of challenges, and so we've put some energy towards that — s o m e r e a l p e o p l e t o work on this. I know that as we work through the re- gional health authorities, we're actually making a pro- found difference in the lives of people with mental illness and, in particular, of children who live with mental illness — children who live with their own mental illness or live in a family where mental illness is

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2003 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 7637 a n i s s u e . W e d o t h o s e t h i n g s b e c a u s e w e k n o w t h o s e are things that are going to make a difference when the child is six, when the child is 12, when the child is 18 and to the time when they become adults. It's very important work that we do in this Legisla- ture. Community safety has got to be just the most im- portant thing in my work here. I really, really believe in this kind of work, because I think so many people have kind of walked away from calling people on their stuff, on being responsible.

This act is really about letting kids, parents and ordinary British Columbians know that they have a responsibility. They live in a society that has rules, and those rules are there for the benefit of all. Those rules are there to protect the children, to protect adults, to protect communities and seniors and what have you. Those laws are there. This act is an opportunity for us to communicate with the children and parents of British Columbia that these are the things we believe are important and true. I look through this act and I look at….

For the benefit of people that are not sitting in this Legislature, we look at these acts, and they're a bunch of paper. They h a v e w o r d s o n t h e m o f c o u r s e . I l o o k a t s e c t i o n 8 , which is about changing the rules here, about changing the rules for dealing with criminal activity with kids. I think it's important that we send a strong message to these kids that we care about them, that we're there for them at the beginning of their lives and all through their lives, and we still expect them to be responsible, whether they are 14 or 15 or 16.

We expect them to be responsible for their actions, and we expect them to understand these laws and these rules. [1550] We can do lots about that. I know that when this act is proclaimed, when it's brought into force, there are good and wonderful people who work in our commu- nity who will work to communicate these laws, who will translate these sections, subsections and subhead- ings and all of those things into English, into words that make sense to kids, that make sense to families, that make sense to communities — all who deal with creating a better and safer community.

I look at one of the sections, and it talks about a particular crime. It says: "Subject to

section 14, if the young person is found guilty of an offence under sec- tion 100 of the Motor Vehicle Act, the court must make an order prohibiting the young person from driving a motor vehicle for a period of 2 years." That's really heavy; that's big stuff. It means that if you're 16 and you have your driver's licence, you've yanked it. It's been yanked; it's gone. You won't be driving until you're 18. That means a lot to young people. I can re- member how important my driver's licence was to me. What does that mean? It means we're serious about protecting people in our community. What is

section 100 of the Motor Vehicle Act? It's a prohibition against driving for failing to stop. What's that about? Well, in our province we've seen many, many examples of police chases — 100 kilometres an hour, 150 kilometres an hour. We've seen them throw out those belts that pop all the tires. We've seen Mus- tangs wrapped around telephone poles because they were running from…. This is important stuff. Those kinds of tragedies break the hearts of moms and dads. They affect people that aren't just the immediate family of those young offenders. They affect other families profoundly.

They make a huge difference in the lives of people, so there ought to be serious consequences for that type of crime. There ought to be some reckoning, some sober thought, some time to sit down and go: "Oh, I shouldn't have done that. I hurt someone and maybe their circle of friends or their family. I hurt my community." So it is serious stuff. It's really important stuff.

I ' v e h a d t h e o p p o r t u n i t y t o w o r k o n t h e s a f e schools task force and had the opportunity to travel the province and meet teachers, students, community leaders and moms and dads — all about the issues of bullying, harassment and intimidation. That doesn't happen just in schools. It happens around schools. Schools are a good place to do that sort of stuff. I can remember one community I went to, and we talked for a long time about bullying and harassment a n d w h a t h a v e y o u .

O v e r t h e c o u r s e o f m a n y , m a n y hours with students coming forward, I learned that in that community one of the chief concerns they had was people coming and recruiting their girls and their boys to be in the sex trade, people coming onto a school property where kids are vulnerable. They may have been adults or they may have been kids, but the fact of the matter is that they trespassed.

They came into a place that's supposed to be safe and secure for kids, and they recruited them out of that — out of their community, away from their families — and brought them to God knows where — perhaps the downtown east side, perhaps downtown Kelowna. I don't know. Those kinds of things are very serious crimes. Those are things that will alter children's lives forever. I have the greatest respect for groups like PACE, which works with young people that have been induced into the sex trade, and WISH, which is in the downtown east side and works with young prostitutes as well.

I went to a conference not long ago that was spon- sored by the Minister for Women's Equality. In that meeting we had a number of people who worked in the sex trade, who came forward. I sat beside a young girl — I won't use her name — and she was 15 years old. We talked for a little while. She was talking abou

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H1029pm 12
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H1029pm 12
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	99ef9522e621ac498d707651af8f765fd313e8bd

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (pdf).