Alberta Hansard — 14 March 1994, Afternoon sitting (13:30) (Legislature 23, Session 2)

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Alberta — Debates (Hansard)

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 569 Legislative Assembly of Alberta Title: Monday, March 14, 1994 1:30 p.m. Date: 94/03/14 [Mr. Speaker in the Chair] head: Prayers MR. SPEAKER: Let us pray. At the beginning of this week we ask Y ou, Father, to renew and strengthen in us the awareness of our duty and privileges as members of this Legislature. We ask Y ou also in Y our divine providence to bless and protect the Assembly and the province we are elected to serve. Amen. head: Presenting Petitions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. MR. DICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I seek leave to introduce a petition signed by 1,086 Calgarians, many of them residents of Calgary-Varsity and Calgary-Foothills. The petition- ers urge two things upon the government: firstly, to abort the announced plan to restructure education and then, secondly, to ensure the opportunity for every Albertan to have input into future restructuring of education. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MR. HENRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would beg leave also to present a petition, signed by 405 Calgarians.

Very briefly, the petition urges the government of Alberta to ensure that every Albertan has the opportunity to participate in the restructuring and also reminds the Premier of his promise in the last election to commit more money to education. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park. MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I beg leave to introduce a petition signed by 88 residents of Sherwood Park, Strathcona county, and surrounding area urging the government to maintain the Grey Nuns hospital in Mill Woods as a full- service, active facility. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon- St. Albert. MRS. SOETAERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I beg leave to introduce a petition urging "the government to maintain the Misericordia Hospital as a Full-Service, Active Hospital and continue to serve the West-end of Edmonton, Spruce Grove and surrounding area." head: Reading and Receiving Petitions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. DECORE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask that the petition which I presented on March 2 now be read to the Assembly.

CLERK: We petition the Legislature to urge the government to take immediate steps to stop any measures that will reduce the availab ility of post- secondary programs, and to begin a phased-in approach to ensure accessible post-secondary opportun ities for students in the next 10 years. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask that the petition I presented on March 2, asking that Mill Woods' Grey Nuns hospital remain an active treatment hospital, now be read and received by the Assembly.

CLERK: We the undersigned petition the Legislative Assembly of Alberta to urge the Government to maintain the Grey Nuns Hospital in Mill Woods as a Full-Service, Active Hospital and continue to serve the south-east end of Edmonton and surrounding area. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. MR. ZARIWNY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd ask that the petition I tabled on March 2 be now read and received.

CLERK: We petition the Legislative Assembly to urge the government to work with student leaders to develop a thoughtful, judicious tuition fees policy that meets the needs of both students a nd post-secondary institutions. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-North West. MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask that the petition I tabled on March 2 be now read and received.

CLERK: We respectfully request the Legislative Assembly to urge the Government of Alberta to refrain from introducing legislation which would enable • the provincial appointment of superintendents and • the seizure of locally levied school residential taxes. head: Presenting Reports by head: Standing and Special Committees MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Medicine Hat. MR. RENNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Pursuant to Standing Order 93 I wish to report that the petitions for private Bills which have been received by the Assembly have been taken into consideration by me as chairman of the Private Bills Committee, and all the petitions received with two exceptions comply with Standing Order 86. The petition I presented of Leonard Anderson and Mandy Anderson for the Mandy Anderson Adoption Act was advertised prior to November 1, 1993. This petition was advertised in anticipation of being heard during the last session.

Standing Order 86(1) requires that advertising be commenced not earlier than the November 1 preceding the session. The petition otherwise complies with the requirements of Standing Order 86. The second petition is that of Anna-May Woodley for the Travis Trevor Purdy Adoption Act, for which the advertisement will appear in the Alberta Gazette on March 15, 1994. The petition has otherwise complied with the advertising requirements under Standing Order 86.

The Private Bills Committee has had these petitions under consideration and requests that the Assembly unanimously suspend Standing Order 94 with respect to these petitions in order that these Bills may be introduced today and referred to the committee.

570 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 I request the concurrence of the Assembly in this recommendation and report. MR. SPEAKER: Does the Assembly concur with the request and report of the hon. member? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. SPEAKER: Opposed? So ordered. head: Notices of Motions DR. NICOL: Mr. Speaker, I rise to give notice that after question period today I'll rise under Standing Order 40 to ask unanimous agreement of the Assembly to place the following motion:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly of Alberta send its congratulations to the University of Lethbridge Pronghorns men's hockey team on the occasion of their winning the 1994 Canadian Interuniversity Athletic Union hockey championship, known as the University Cup, in Toronto on March 13. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake. MS CALAHASEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to give notice that following que stion period t oday I will seek unanimous consent under Standing Order 40 for the following motion:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly of Alberta congratulate the town of Slave Lake and the 1994 Slave Lake Arctic Winter Games Host Society for their success in staging the 1994 Arctic Winter Games, and be it further resolved that the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly convey this congratulatory message in the usual manner. head: Introduction of Bills Bill 8 Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1994 MR. KOW ALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill 8, Appropriation (Interim Supply) Act, 1994.

This being a money Bill, the Administrator, acting on behalf of His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this Bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Leave granted; Bill 8 read a first time] Bill 9 Appropriation (Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund, Capital Projects Division) Interim Supply Act, 1994 MR. KOW ALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill 9, Appropriation (Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund, Capital Projects Division) Interim Supply Act, 1994.

This being a money Bill, the Administrator, acting on behalf of His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this Bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Leave granted; Bill 9 read a first time] Bill 10 Appropriation (Lottery Fund) Interim Supply Act, 1994 MR. KOW ALSKI: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill 10, Appropriation (Lottery Fund) Interim Supply Act, 1994.

This being a money Bill, the Administrator, acting on behalf of His Honour the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor, having been informed of the contents of this Bill, recommends the same to the Assembly. [Leave granted; Bill 10 read a first time] 1:40 Bill 5 Oil and Gas Conservation Amendment Act, 1994 MRS. BLACK: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill 5, the Oil and Gas Conservation Amendment Act, 1994. The first aspect of this amendment is to provide the Energy Resources Conservation Board with clear jurisdiction to order abandonment of wells and a method of ensuring that the order is complied with.

The purpose is to prevent orphan wells – that is, wells that have no responsible owner – from being a drain on the public purse. The second aspect of this legislation is to provide a fund which will be paid for by industry through an annual levy to cover the cost of abandoning orphan wells or, where there are insolvent partners, to pay for the insolvent partner's share. The amendment will also provide a method of collecting any money which may be owing to the fund. Mr.

Speaker, the Bill is the result of extensive consultation between the board, the Department of Energy, CAPP, and SEPAC and is fully supported by all of these organizations. [Leave granted; Bill 5 read a first time] Bill Pr. 1 Mandy Anderson Adoption Act MR. JACQUES: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 1, being the Mandy Anderson Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 1 read a first time] Bill Pr. 2 Lethbridge Foundation Amendment Act, 1994 MR. DUNFORD: Mr.

Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 2, being the Lethbridge Foundation Amendment Act, 1994. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 2 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for St. Albert. Bill Pr. 3 Companions of Angela and Francis (Koinonia Association) Act MR. BRACKO: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 3, being the Companions of Angela and Francis (Koinonia Association) Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 3 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Manning. Bill Pr. 4 Concordia College Amendment Act, 1994 MR. SEKULIC: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 4, being the Concordia College Amendment Act, 1994. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 4 read a first time]

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 571 MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park. Bill Pr. 5 Suk Yin Poon Adoption Act MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 5, being the Suk Yin Poon Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 5 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. Bill Pr. 6 Gimbel Foundation Act MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 6, being the Gimbel Foundation Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 6 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Egmont. Bill Pr. 7 Scott Peter Lavery Adoption Act MR.

HERARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 7, being the Scott Peter Lavery Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 7 read a first time] Bill Pr. 8 Shaw Communications Inc. Act MR. DUNFORD: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 8, being Shaw Communications Inc. Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 8 read a first time] Bill Pr. 9 Tammy Lee Barnes Adoption Act MRS. GORDON: Mr. Speaker, I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 9, being the Tammy Lee Barnes Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 9 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Sherwood Park.

Bill Pr. 10 Janna Adella Marie Kinnee Adoption Act MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 10, being the Janna Adella Marie Kinnee Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 10 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Beverly. Bill Pr. 1 1 Edmonton Chinatown Multicultural Centre Foundation Tax Exemption Act MS HANSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 1 1, being the Edmonton Chinatown Multicul- tural Centre Foundation Tax Exemption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 1 1 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Beverly. Bill Pr. 12 Travis Trevor Purdy Adoption Act MS HANSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 12, being the Travis Trevor Purdy Adoption Act. I am introducing this Bill on behalf of the hon. Member for Bonnyville. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 12 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Currie. Bill Pr. 13 TD Trust Company and Central Guaranty Trust Co. Act MRS. BURGENER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce a Bill, being the TD Trust Company and Central Guaranty Trust Co.

Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 13 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-North West. Bill Pr. 14 Jody Anne Van Overmeeren Adoption Act MR. BRUSEKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 14, being the Jody Anne Van Overmeeren Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 14 read a first time] MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Strathcona. 1:50 Bill Pr. 15 Silvia Kathleen Miles Adoption Act MR. ZARIWNY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I request leave to introduce Bill Pr. 15, being the Silvia Kathleen Miles Adoption Act. [Leave granted; Bill Pr. 15 read a first time] head: Tabling Returns and Reports MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to table documents in response to Motion 155. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Buffalo. MR. DICKSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to table four documents in anticipation of tomorrow's debate on Motion 506: firstly, a copy of the Calgary Mayor's Task Force on Community and Family Violence from March of 1991; secondly, the May 1992 report entitled Toward a Safer Edmonton for All; thirdly, the status report from October 1993 of the city of Calgary Action Committee against Violence; and, finally, the report of December 1993 from the Edmonton Action Group on Prostitution. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. MR. KLEIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure today to table a copy of a report on my mission to Asia in November of

572 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 1993. It provides an overview of the mission's objectives and achievements, and it says who we met and what we did. I believe it offers an all-too-rare glimpse of what Alberta companies are doing in that part of the world, and it takes a realistic look at our opportunities in Asia. I'm pleased to file this report today. head: Introduction of Guests MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. MRS. FORSYTH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm pleased to introduce through you and to you two very kind, capable, and hardworking people who work with me in Calgary: Diane MacDonell and Terri Douglas. Terri and Diane are in the members' gallery, and I ask that they please stand and receive the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Public Works, Supply and Services. MR. THURBER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's a pleasure for me today to introduce to you and through you to this Assembly 60 visitors from the St. Anthony school in Drayton Valley, most of these being very bright young students in grade 6.

They are accompanied here today by teachers Mr. Ricard and Mr. Hoven and parents and helpers Geraldine MacKinnon, Mrs. Anna Barker, Mrs. Barb Lotnick, Rick Babb, D. Aldersley, Steve Phillip, Rhonda Oulton, and Cecilia Gustafson. I would ask that they rise in the members' gallery and receive the warm welcome of this House. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Environmental Protection. MR. EV ANS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It's a pleasure for me today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly six members of the Edmonton 1994 Forestry Capital Society.

Edmonton has been designated as the 1994 National Forestry Capital in recognition of its status as a green city, having one of the largest urban parkland areas per capita in all of North America. These forested areas, particularly the spectacular river valley parks system, are enjoyed year-round by local residents and really are a part of Edmonton's attraction for visitors from around the world. This combined with Edmonton's role as a gateway to northern forests clearly has positioned Edmonton as an emerging major corporate industrial service and educational centre for the forestry sector. Mr.

Speaker, the society is made up of very hardworking volunteers representing all segments of our population. As an honorary patron of the society I am very pleased to introduce Chairman Ken Pilip, board members Mrs. Sally Hall and Mr. Jim Martin, Dr. Teja Singh, and Dr. Ray Rasmussen. As well, Dr. – pardon me; Mr. – Bob Rosen, who I don't think is working on his doctorate, is here representing the honorary advisory commit- tee as is Doug Ford, who is the executive director.

All of these fine folks are now standing in the members' gallery, and I would ask all hon. members to give them the traditional warm welcome of the Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Gold Bar. MRS. HEWES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm privileged today to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly a group of 25 students from the Holyrood school in Edmonton- Gold Bar. They're accompanied by their teacher Mr. Cherkaoui and two parent helpers Mrs. Forestier and Mrs. Bogner. They're seated in the public gallery today. I'd ask them to rise and receive the welcome of the members. MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Spruce Grove-Sturgeon- St. Albert. MRS. SOETAERT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's my pleasure to introduce to you and through you to members of this Assembly a wonderful, brilliant gr oup of students, grades 5 and 6, from Brookwood school in Spruce Grove. Their t eacher Mrs. Tina Hayes is with them and their assistant Miss Duncan. Mr. Hayes, on his day off, agreed to be the designated driver. I'd ask them to please rise and receive the warm welcome of this Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. MR. HENRY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I have the great pleasure today to introduce eight students from Grant MacEwan College at the city centre campus in my riding. They're studying social work at the college, and they're accompa- nied by their instructor Mr. Alan Knowles. They're here to see how the decisions that are made that affect their future careers operate in the Legislature, and I had a very interesting discussion about the kinds of challenges facing social work in the future. If they could rise, I'd ask that the Assembly to provide a very warm welcome to them. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister without portfolio. MRS. MIROSH: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I'd like to introduce to you and through you to members of the Assembly two very important people who are in the tourism industry in Calgary: Mrs. Susan Costello, who is the chairman of the board of the Calgary Convention & Visitors Bureau – she's also a constituent of Calgary-Glenmore – and Henry Kutarna, who is the president and chief executive officer of the Calgary Convention & Visitors Bureau. They're seated in the members' gallery. Would you please rise and receive the warm welcome from the Assembly? MR. DA Y: Mr. Speaker, I'm happy to introduce two visitors from Ontario with us here today.

One is Ms Susan Dowler, who is the executive director of the Ontario Tourism Education Council. She actually left Alberta and took her well-deserved expertise down to Ontario; sh e was formerly the executive director of the Alberta Tourism Education Council. Also visiting with us is Mr. Jim Burke, one of the substantial players at the Ryerson institute in Ontario, and he is presenting at the TIAALTA conference today. I'd ask them to stand and receive the warm welcome of the Assembly. MR. TANNAS: Mr.

Speaker, I'm delighted this afternoon to introduce to you and through you to the Assembly two active constituents from Highwood: Mr. John Coleman, who's president of the Foothills Ratepayers' Association, and the vice-president, Mr. David Pope. I'd ask these two gentlemen, who are seated in the members' gallery, to rise and receive the warm, traditional welcome of the Assembly. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Stony Plain. MR. WOLOSHYN: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to introduce a very good Albertan, a very supportive Albertan, a family man who has nine children. Five

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 573 were not enough, so he adopted four more. When he's not too terribly involved with his family, he finds time to be the chief executive officer of Capital City Savings and Credit Union. I'd ask Mr. Harry Buddle to rise and r eceive the warm welcome of the Assembly. head: Oral Question Period MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. Catholic School System MR. DECORE: Thank you, sir. Mr. Speaker, Catholics in Alberta have always had the opportunity to run their own school system.

It's their legal right and their constitutional right, but without warning, the province is now taking that right away. The government's unilateral action has forced Catholics to go to the courts to protect their legal rights. Mr. Premier, why do Catholics have to go to the courts in Alberta to protect their rights? 2:00 MR. KLEIN: Well, I assume that the hon. leader of the Liberal Party is doing his research in the newspapers again, but even if he is, he should read very, very carefully the statement of Shirley Valentine and some of her colleagues, Mr. Speaker.

The statement clearly says: if the Catholic school districts believe that their constitutional rights will be violated, then they will look at court action. If. MR. DECORE: Well, if the Premier read once in a while, he'd know that the Catholic school boards have decided that they will all take action against the government. Mr. Premier, why don't you simply agree to sit down with the Catholic community in Alberta and sort this matter out immediately? MR. KLEIN: Well, Mr.

Speaker, first of all, I know that the hon. minister has indeed met with various Catholic school jurisdictions throughout the province regarding this matter. But, again, I have to reiterate that the Catholic school boards have not said that they will take us to court. They said that if it is deemed to be a violation of their constitutional rights, then they will look at it. MR. DECORE: Well, let me put it more clearly for you, Premier. Will you, not the minister, agree to meet with the Catholic community in Alberta and sort this out? The matter needs to be sorted out, sir. MR. KLEIN: Mr.

Speaker, I'll meet with anyone anytime. Sure. MR. DECORE: Thank you, Premier. AN HON. MEMBER: Y ou're welcome. MR. DECORE: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat still aspires to that position, Mr. Speaker. He'll have a long wait. [interjection] And arrogance isn't good enough for that role. Students' Finance MR. DECORE: Mr. Speaker, Albertans have always had freedom to pursue their dreams of education and employment in this province. Now the province wants to dictate what a student can and can't learn.

Student lo ans will be denied to those in college and university programs with a default rate set at an arbitrary limit. Mr. Premier, how does a government that preaches freedom in the marketplace justify this kind of central control? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, I'm not so sure that the hon. leader of the Liberal Party is factually correct in his assumptions, and I will defer to the hon. Minister of Education. MR. JONSON: Well, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the minister of advanced education I would just make a couple of comments in general terms, and I will refer the matter to him. First of all, the hon.

Leader of the Opposition was not clear on this, but I believe he is referring to the private vocational colleges, which are private businesses, and also to some of the programs at colleges and universities. It is only financially responsible for the default rates and the viability of those programs that are associated with those default rates to be examined. It's fiscally responsible, something that I think the members across the way should take note of. MR. DECORE: Well, we have a minister contradicting a Premier. I want to go back to this, Mr. Premier. Y ou don't know the details of your own budget again.

Are you prepared to examine this issue to ensure that the marketplace prevails, that students can learn whatever they want and go and work wherever they want? MR. KLEIN: I'll do that. MR. DECORE: Mr. Speaker, I want the Premier's assurance that the principle here is one that he believes in and that his govern- ment will clearly get behind, and that is that there won't be a system for the rich and one for the rest of Alberta when you get these kinds of arbitrary rates or levels that are set that deny students access into certain programs. MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, I'll have the hon.

Minister of Education supplement, but fundamentally what we're trying to do overall is to put in programs and systems that are deemed to be fair. I would like the hon. minister to supplement. MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, the hon.

Minister of Advanced Education and Career Development will, I am sure, provide the Assembly in due course with all the details in terms of these programs, but the fact of the matter here is that we want to apply the money that's available in advanced education as effectively as possible to the programs which are in high demand by students and which have good career opportunities and broad application in terms of sound education. There are programs that do not always maintain their currency. They go out of date. They're not necessary.

They're not ones that lead people towards jobs in business and industry and in the general society. I think to examine that, to review it and to apply the money as effectively as possible is a good thing to be doing. Senior Citizens' Programs MRS. HEWES: Mr. Speaker, the tragic saga of seniors' cuts continues. The minister and the Premier are now running around the province in damage control, frantic consultations after the fact. The Premier doesn't even know there's a published deadline. My questions are to the Premier.

Will the Premier tell the House: is the amount of money in the budget allocated for seniors' benefits a fixed amount? [interjections] MR. KLEIN: Well, it was a puzzling question: is it "a fixed amount?" Mr. Speaker, basically we are consulting with seniors

574 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 now very quietly on this side. Our MLAs are out and they're meeting. Y ou don't read about those things, and you don't hear about them, b ecause they aren't Liberal-organized protests. They're reasonable, sound, sane kinds of meetings with seniors throughout the province, and basically we're finding out from the seniors what is right for them. What do they think is fair? So in answer to the question, I can't see how it is a fixed amount. We have put in some benchmarks, and we have said: "Is this right? Is this fair? If it isn't, tell us what is fair." MRS. HEWES: Mr.

Speaker, clearly the Premier dodges the question. The chairman of the Seniors Advisory Council is saying that there's a fixed total amount. The Premier is saying: but the threshold is negotiable. Okay, Mr. Premier. Tell us. If there's a fixed amount of money and you're going to raise the threshold, what are the programs that you're going to cut to do it? MR. KLEIN: Mr. Speaker, again, let fair public consultation with seniors take place, and at the end of the day we will bring forward a program that is fair based on what the seniors have told us is right for them. MRS.

HEWES: They've told you over and over what's right for them. Mr. Speaker, to the Premier: why not save us a whole lot of pain and torment and anguish and just scrap these punitive cuts? Scrap them. MR. KLEIN: Again, Mr. Speaker, I know that you can't call someone hypocritical; right? Bu t you can refer to the whole aspect of hypocrisy; can't you? These are the people that say: four reasons to feel good when you vote Liberal. Well, I'll tell you what one of the reasons is. One of the reasons is that they promised to cut . . . [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order. The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. MR.

SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For the clarity of seniors in Alberta can the minister explain the level at which the federal guaranteed income supplement is clawed back from seniors by way of income tax and compare it to the proposed levels of the Alberta seniors' benefit? 2:10 MR. MAR: Mr. Speaker, the federal government starts clawing back the guaranteed income supplement at $10,432. We look at that figure, and under the proposed Alberta seniors' benefit levels such a person would receive an additional $1,916.

Accordingly, the point at which we would start to reduce benefits would be at $12,348, compared to the $10,432 instituted by the Liberal government in Ottawa. MR. SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. SMITH: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the minister clarify the level at which the guaranteed income supplement ends and compare it to the levels at which the proposed Alberta seniors' benefit ends as well? MR. MAR: Mr. Speaker, the point at which you would receive no benefit under the guaranteed income supplement program federally is $16,200, and provincially it is $17,000.

I would point out that the claw-back rate federally is 50 cents,

whereas provin- cially under the Alberta seniors' benefit that reduction would be 25 percent for each dollar of private income. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to the com- ments on the previous question, does the minister intend to follow the federal Liberal model, which I'm sure is supported by the Alberta provincial Liberals – as was stated, with punitive cuts – by raising taxes to seniors? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Community Development. MR. MAR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The province of Alberta provides a generous tax reduction for lower income Albertans, which benefits low-income seniors. The federal government provides no such similar tax relief. Accordingly, there are 20,000-some Alberta seniors who pay federal income tax who do not pay personal income tax in the province of Alberta. As an example, a single senior with $9,400 of private income will pay nearly $500 in federal tax, and the same single senior will receive the Alberta seniors' benefit and will in fact receive a grant of $415. Also, that senior will have their health care premium paid for. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Sherwood Park. Alberta Research Council MR. COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since the Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat has been the chairman of the Alberta Research Council, it has gone through some pretty tough times. Amid questions of public safety, accountab ility, and conflict of interest, two senior administrators have been sus- pended, and an investigation has now been started. Albertans have every reason to be concerned about the activities of the Alberta Research Council. My questions are to the chairman of the Alberta Research Council.

Why wasn't the chairman able to deal with these problems before suspensions and investigations became necessary? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat. DR. L. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's certainly a pleasure to rise and address these particular questions. AN HON. MEMBER: Then answer it. DR. L. TA YLOR: If I get a chance, I will answer it. First of all, there are two points that were raised. I would emphasize that, one, the Alberta Research Council has standards that exceed regulatory requirements when it comes to health and safety practices.

Secondly, in regards to the senior administrators we have an example where we have taken an independent investigator, who is presently investigating these questions, and he will have a report available by Thursday or Friday of this week in regards to the questions that have been raised by the member opposite. I would like to point out, Mr. Speaker, that I stood in this House about two weeks ago and talked about the good things the Alberta Research Council is doing, the fact that we're going to create . . . [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order. Order. Perhaps the supplemental will bring out . . .

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 575 MR. COLLINGWOOD: Mr. Speaker, my supplementary, then, to the chairman of the Alberta Research Council: will this investigation include a review of the chairman's role in how these problems came about? DR. L. TA YLOR: Once again, Mr. Speaker, I would point out that this investigation is looking at management practices within the organization and will be looking at management practice. We talk about creating jobs in this province and doing good things at the Alberta Research Council as opposed to what they're talking about on the other side. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR.

COLLINGWOOD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a serious matter. To the chairman: will the chairman undertake to file the report of the investiga tion in this Assembly when it's done, regardless of what it says? DR. L. TA YLOR: Mr. Speaker, once again I'd like to quote the political and intellectual inspiration for those people opposite. He referred to people like them as nattering nabobs of negativism, and that's exactly what they are. We have due process happening here. There may be legal implications. Once the report is available, we will at that time decide. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-East.

Senior Citizens' Programs (continued) MR. AMERY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the minister responsible for seniors. I was out in my constituency this last weekend talking with seniors, and they raised a couple of concerns with me. There's some confusion about what a thresh- old is. Could the minister tell our seniors and perhaps explain to the opposition the difference between the $10,432 and $17,000 thresholds that have been reported? MR. MAR: Mr. Speaker, the Alberta seniors' benefit is com- posed of two very distinct parts. The first

part is a cash benefit to seniors who are in need, and the second

part is a subsidy paid by the government to offset health care premiums. There are many thresholds, and the ones referred to by the hon. member are those which apply to single senior homeowners. The $10,432 figure referred to is the starting point for single senior homeown- ers in the province. The province supplements that under this Alberta seniors' benefit program an additional $1,916, and accordingly virtually no single senior homeowner in this province will receive less than $12,300.

The second threshold referred to by the hon. member was $17,000, and that is the point at which an Alberta senior who is a homeowner would begin to pay for a partial health care premium. So, Mr. Speaker, the result is that between those two income levels, the $10,432 to $17,000 figures, individual homeowners who are seniors will receive a cash benefit. Those that are above $17,000 will start to pay for a portion of their health care premium, and those above $18,200 will start to pay for full health care premiums. MR. AMERY: Mr.

Speaker, could the minister tell the seniors what happens with a two-senior couple where one resides in a lodge or a long-term care facility and the other one resides at their home? How will they be treated by this program? MR. MAR: As presently contemplated, Mr. Speaker, individuals who are in those circumstances w ill be treated as if they are couples. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. AMERY: Thank you. Is the minister considering changing this situation so that they are treated as single seniors in terms of the benefits? MR. MAR: Mr.

Speaker, this is a concern that has been expressed by people during consultations and roundtables with seniors. The concern, of course, is that a couple who live independently of one another for health reasons is treated as a couple, but certainly we would consider treating them instead as singles, and we have the flexibility to do that. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods. 2:20 Alberta Research Council (continued) DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Early this year contract researchers at the government's Alberta Research Council laboratories deliberately let genetically altered material escape into the air over Mill Woods. Two filters were removed to keep an experiment going. This is an issue of public safety. To the chair of the Alberta Research Council: is the government's policy safety first or dollars first? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat. DR. L. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One thing I would say is that the hot air has all escaped over there.

Let me start by saying that I tried to pre-empt that question, if he had listened to my last response, by pointing out that the Alberta Research Council operates by standards that ex ceed the norms of regulatory requirements. There was no management decision made. An employee made a mistake. MR. SPEAKER: Supplemental question. DR. MASSEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since you're in charge, why would you allow such a release to occur? DR. L. TA YLOR: As I've already indicated, Mr. Speaker, it wasn't a management decision.

It was a decision made by an employee or several employees without the knowledge of any management. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. DR. MASSEY: Thank you. Have you changed your policy on these releases now that you've been caught? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member. DR. L. TA YLOR: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, again. I would just like to comment on the organism that was released. The organism was a common food yeast. It's a nonpathogen. There was no danger at all to the health of the public. The

576 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 protein is not biologically active, and there were no pathogenics. It was released into the atmosphere, so there was no danger at all to the public. Corrective methods have taken pl ace so that this procedure would not occur again. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister without portfolio wishes to augment. MRS. MIROSH: Mr. Speaker, just to supplement the chair's answer, I want the public to be aware that occupational health and safety and Alberta environment have been on the scene and have declared the area safe. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Highlands- Beverly.

Private Adoption MS HANSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In his judgment of the Baby M case Justice Mason urged the government to clean up unlicensed adoptions. Bernd Walter repeated these warnings. The Liberals have also asked for changes to stop our province from being a pipeline for shady adoption practices. To the Minister of Family and Social Services: will you tighten up the Child Welfare Act by calling for mandatory prescreening of all private adoptions, since this issue cannot wait for the commis- sioner's report? MR. CARDINAL: Mr.

Speaker, the same question was asked by the Liberals on Wednesday or Thursday of last week, and I'll give them the same answer. We are presently reviewing the whole process and will be introducing legislation early next fall in relation to that issue. MS HANSON: While early next fall is pretty late, that's encouraging news though. Will the changes include an amendment to the Domestic Relations Act to ensure that biological fathers get notice of an adoption and a chance to appeal? MR. CARDINAL: Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what this minister and the committee is reviewing. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental.

MS HANSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the changes also deal with unlicensed adoption agencies? MR. CARDINAL: Mr. Speaker, I addressed that issue last Wednesday or Thursday, and again the answer is yes. Wage Rollbacks MR. SOHAL: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Labour. Last fall the government asked people in the public sector to consider a voluntary 5 percent compensation rollback. It has been difficult to determine what type of response there has been overall on this issue. I don't even know if anyone is formally keeping track of who has agreed to this and who hasn't.

Is the Minister of Labour keeping track of these numbers? MR. DA Y: Mr. Speaker, as far as we can, on a daily basis we do keep track of these numbers. I can inform the member that in Alberta some 35,000 people in one way or another have accepted a voluntary 5 percent reduction. MR. SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. SOHAL: My supplemental question is to the same minister, sir. Does the minister have a breakdown of which occupations and professions are included? MR. DA Y: I could give it exhaustively, but that would exhaust a number of people here.

I can say, however, in detail that on the professional side groups would include chiropractors, optome- trists, opticians, denturists, dentists, and doctors. On the manage- ment side right across the province we've seen significant uptake of the 5 percent reduction. When you look at the union agree- ments that have taken place on a local, sectoral basis across the province, we see it as varied as CUPE, with some 10,000 workers; we see an AUPE local, Calgary Foothills, with some 500 workers. This type of thing in the municipalities also is varied, Mr.

Speaker: Wetaskiwin workers taking 5 percent, Edson and Peace River with a three-year agreement of freezing wages and taking 5 percent. So it is varied. We can give an exhaustive breakdown if the member would like that. MR. SOHAL: Can the minister indicate progress being made among teachers on the voluntary 5 percent reduction? MR. DA Y: My information at this point, Mr. Speaker, is that so far at three school boards the teachers have agreed to the 5 percent. Whenever you're asking anybody in the public sector to take 5 percent, we recognize that is not an easy thing.

For instance, the county of Red Deer just voted 80 percent that their teachers would take 5 percent. Teachers in that district earn anywhere from a high rate of $56,000 a year down from there. Whether you're making $56,000 as a teacher at the high end or even at the lower end, to ask for 5 percent is significant. The county of Red Deer t eachers have taken this, the c ounty of Lacombe teachers, their school board, have taken 5 percent, and Medicine Hat also has an agreement in principle to take a 5 percent voluntary reduction. That is the teachers. That's not just the support staff. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Member for Calgary-Fish Creek. Sex Education MRS. FORSYTH: Y es. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just how far we are willing to go on sex education will be discussed this week at a five-day convention entitled Communicating about Sexuality: Facing the Challenge. Directly or indirectly taxpayers will pick up most of the tab. To the Minister of Education: can you please outline your department's financial involvement in this confer- ence? MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, there is no financial involvement of my department in this conference. MR. SPEAKER: Supplemental. MRS. FORSYTH: Y es. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Could the Minister of Education please indicate to this House the last time a thorough review of our sex education program in the sc hools took place in Alberta? MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, during the latter year or two of my predecessor's tenure as Minister of Education the member for Lloydminster chaired a committee which did a thorough review of the overall sexuality education programs in the province, made a

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 577 number of recommendations. Those recommendations were reviewed by our committee structure and caucus, and a number of adjustments were made in the overall program. I'd just like to mention one or two, I think, of the very significant ones.

One was the reaffirmation of parents' right to opt their children out of a program; secondly, there were two or three recommendations which pointed to the need for liaison with the parents in the school community to determine the suitability of such a program; and thirdly – and this was a third very key recommendation – the adoption of some alternative to the recommended programs if there was not community acceptance of one of those. School boards would decide over all. DR. WEST: Point of order. 2:30 MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MRS. FORSYTH: Y es. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Then my next question is to the Minister of Health. Why are we providing funding to a conference on sex education when a r ecent review indicates that our sex education programs have been deemed adequate? MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health has provided some rather modest funding assistance to this conference. It is expected that there would be between 250 and 350 professionals involved in this that do counseling and teaching on these matters in all areas, not just in the secondary or primary education systems.

One of the Alberta Health goals – I think it was goal number 8 – talks about choosing healthy behaviours. We think this is an important area to ensure that the people who are counseling in those areas have the very latest information. So on that basis Alberta Health did provide some modest funding to the conference. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Meadowlark. Health Services Restructuring MS LEIBOVICI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've heard of restaurant hosts, we've heard of airline hostesses, and now we have patient hostesses in our hospitals.

Descaling the health force is in full swing, and generic names such as "skilled enhanced health worker," "nurse enabler," "nurse enhancer" will be the order of the day. Our hospitals are becoming Americanized assembly-line operations. My question is to the Minister of Health. Is the minister aware that registered nurses in Alberta hospitals are now being called "patient hosts and hostesses"? MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health is not responsible for what roles are played in the hospitals. Our insurance is to ensure quality patient care is there, and I believe that is there.

If there are questions on some of those areas, certainly they have not been raised as a concern with me. I believe that the registered nurses that work in our institutions in this province fully understand their qualifications and what they do and are very highly qualified to perform those tasks whatever name might be placed in an individual institution. I have not any knowledge of that. MS LEIBOVICI: My next question is also to the Minister of Health. Is it part of your H ealth business plan to eliminate exclusive scopes of practice for health care professionals and create generic health care workers? MRS.

McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, scopes of practice for health care professionals fall in two areas, some under the Minister of Health and some under the chairman of Professions and Occupa- tions. There have been requests from all partners in health services to look at how they deliver services. There was a great deal of discussion in the roundtables throughout this province.

I would remind hon. members that some 6,000 people participated in person, and hundreds of briefs and submissions were given to us to look at the opportunity for alternate providers, to look at the opportunity for workers to be working in multi areas. I believe that those issues are best dea lt with by the health providers through their appropriate mechanisms and their associations, which are clearly in place in all of those instances either under my department or under the chair of Professions and Occupations to deal with those very issues, a nd I believe that is where they should be dealt with.

MS LEIBOVICI: My next question is to the chair of Professions and Occupations. In your review of the Health Disciplines Act will you be looking at the scope of practice for registered nurses and changing it to reflect the new generic names? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Indeed, the document Starting Points on page 14 has asked for a review. The round- table discussions, the tremendous amount of professional input and consumer input have asked for a review of professional legislation in the health care professions.

We are pleased to respond in whatever fashion we can to accommodate that review. Part of the discussion will be the regulations surrounding professional legislation. Hopefully in the spirit of correctness we can look for suggestions from both consumer, professional in the health care field as to deregulation. In fact, the issues of direct access to physiotherapy, direct access to alternate health care providers is going to be an important topic of that review. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat. Education Funding DR. L. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR.

BRUSEKER: Are you going to ask about the ARC too? MR. SPEAKER: Order. DR. L. TA YLOR: I could ask myself a question, and it would be more intelligent than anything that came from over there. On the weekend I met with a number of school boards. On the whole, these meetings were positive and characterized by a can-do attitude. However, there were several concerns that they raised – and I would like to raise them with the Minister of Education – regarding financial information that is necessary for them to have in order to plan budgets and to plan amalgamations of the various boards.

As I represent a large rural riding, this is . . . MR. SPEAKER: Question. DR. L. TA YLOR: In this large rural riding the individuals and boards need to know the formula for sparsity and distance and

578 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 have this formula available to them before they can plan ade- quately. When will the minister make that formula available? MR. JONSON: First of all, just for the Assembly to be clear, the school boards do know what provincial grants are available to them for the 1994-95 sc hool year. If there are any gaps in that information that had not been anticipated, I would certainly welcome the hon. member's specifics with respect to that. Mr.

Speaker, we do recognize that in planning for September of '95 and beyond, school boards do require information on the new provincial fiscal framework or funding formula, and we are working on that now in terms of gathering data. We are going to have additional steps involving the stakeholders, and other leadership will be provided by government with respect to that consultation activity. We're moving ahead as quickly as possible because we know that information is important – but not of course until it's supplied in terms of a planning process or in the actual budgeting for '95-96. MR.

SPEAKER: Supplemental question. DR. L. TA YLOR: Thank you. It was indicated to me that the details of funding regulations for special needs students are necessary to plan. When will these be available? MR. JONSON: Well, perhaps, Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the question completely. Once again, the grants are available for this year in terms of their amounts and their application for special-needs students.

The special-education programs of the province, the costs of those per student will have to be considered as part of the overall fiscal framework or provincial grant structure that I was referring to in my previous answer. DR. L. TA YLOR: Will the Department of Education allow the boards a five-year building renovation plan as was past practice? MR. JONSON: In the case of school buildings and renovations, Mr. Speaker, there the situation for the next two to three years is quite clear. We have announced through our three-year business plan the amount of money that is in the budget to the end of 1996.

A new five-year plan or three-year plan, depending on what the decision is, will be made by government. There is money in the estimates for the first year of that new plan, and that's 1996-97. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Centre. 2:40 Distance Education MR. HENRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To follow up on rural Alberta, with government cutbacks to education more and more rural Alberta students are going to have to rely on distance education courses in order to finish their high school. Unfortu- nately, this government over the last three years has cut back distance education by 16 percent.

I'd like to ask the Minister of Education: why is he cutting back distance education when other cutbacks are going to make that service even more important for rural Albertans? MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I think the hon. member's initial assumption is incorrect in terms of the number of students being served through distance education and the expansion of distance education programs and curriculum offerings in this province. That has been an effort, a priority for the department and will continue to be so in the future.

Also, if the hon. member would look over the business plan, he will see one of the directions that we are taking, looking to the future both in terms of the application of technology and the need for quality distance education programs. That direction is in our business plan. MR. HENRY: Mr. Speaker, he should talk to some school boards and get the facts. I'd like to know why in the minister's business plan he is planning more cost recovery on the distance learning centre, otherwise an education tax on rural Alberta students. MR. JONSON: Well, Mr.

Speaker, let's keep in mind here that distance education is available to every student in this province. Perhaps a student's whole program is offered through distance education. It is a cost for wh ich certainly the local jurisdiction has some responsibility to pay. If you're offering a total program through a distance education mode, certainly there should be some payment for those materials and for that service. It's very cost- effective.

It is not, of course, the ideal situation where you have the school and the teachers, but in some parts of the province this is the best way to go, and it is being offered effectively. MR. HENRY: Mr. Speaker, I'd like the minister to tell us which sparsely populated school districts told him to increase fees on correspondence courses. MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, I would like to indicate to you and to the member across the way that when you recognize that you are providing a program which is providing savings to a jurisdic- tion's budget, it is reasonable then that you charge some fee for that particular service. MR.

HENRY: Which ones told you to increase the fees? MR. JONSON: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member across the way does not like the answer, which I think is very logical. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Wainwright. Special Places MR. FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the minister of environment regarding the recommendations from the Special Places 2000 report. The recommendations from this report could dramatically change the way a lot of people are doing business now.

There is great concern by the outdoor motorized recreation vehicle industry that public access for all-terrain vehicles will be extremely limited along the Eastern Slopes as well as other parts of this province. Could the minister indicate what the status of Special Places 2000 report is, where it's at, and what are the next steps in this report? MR. SPEAKER: Hon. minister. MR. EV ANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The advisory commit- tee on special places tabled a report to myself and the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism in the late fall of last year.

We have reviewed that report, and in the first part of February of this year we made that report public. We indicated at that time that there would be a 60-day review period so that Albertans could consider the report and give their comments back to us. Now, the reason we're doing that kind of extensive public consultation is that we want Al bertans to be onside with this initiative. This is an initiative to legislatively ensure that we have

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 579 the representative landscapes in this province protected for all time, and we want to be sure that Albertans recognize what this is about and where we're going with this policy. So what we will be doing, hon. member, is once this 60-day public process has been completed, we'll be taking the information that we receive back – we will be going to one of the standing policy committees of this government, and then we will be bringing the policy forward to cabinet for endorsation. MR.

FISCHER: Can the minister assure the Assembly that sufficient land will be set aside for the people that are involved in the motorized sport industry? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. minister. MR. EV ANS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what the hon. member is referring to is a concern that was raised by a number of people at the outdoor show this past weekend in Edmonton. There were some concerns about whether the Eastern Slopes policy and anything in Special Places 2000 would further restrict the use of motorized vehicles on public lands.

Well, certainly there are restrictions in place today on the use of motorized vehicles in prime protection zones. That's a reference in the Eastern Slopes policy, and it's not the intention of Special Places 2000 to further restrict. In point of fact, I would point out that other than prime protection zones in this province, there are considerable areas on unoccupied Crown land where motorized vehicles are allowed, and our staff are continuing to work with the outdoors folks, the Snowmobile Association, in identifying trails throughout this province. MR.

FISCHER: My final supplementary is to the minister of economic development. Could the minister indicate to the House that tourism generated by this industry will not be negatively impacted? MR. KOW ALSKI: Mr. Speaker, Special Places 2000 was commissioned by my predecessor, the hon. Don Sparrow, and he did it in his capacity as minister of economic development and tourism to basically look at the concept of sustainable economic development, the balancing of economic drives in this province along with the protection and enhancement of the environment.

That certainly was a philosophy that this government bought into. We did it in 1986 when I had the privilege then of being a signatory to an international document that put that into place. Mr. Speaker, the all-terrain vehicle industry in this province is a very significant industry. Part of the climate that we live in gives us a long period of winter, which means that we have to enjoy and get out and participate in the outdoors. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of dealers in the province of Alberta who sell all-terrain vehicles and snowmobiles.

Most of these people that want to use the outdoors live in the city of Edmonton or the city of Calgary. They need to, have to go someplace. We've clearly identified, as my colleague the Minister of Environmental Protection has indicated, that there will be places in the province of Alberta set around. It was only a few days ago, in fact last Wednesday, when the public report . . . [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order. [interjections] Order. Time is flying. The hon. Member for Edmonton-Glenora. Health Services Restructuring (continued) MR. SAPERS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity.

We've heard much talk about health work force readjustment in this Assembly, but all we've seen are thousands of Albertans losing their jobs. Now, my question first to the chairman of the Professions a nd Occupations Bureau: will this subcommittee studying health work force rebalancing be holding public hearings? If so, will they be open, or w ill they be invitation only? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely and without question. Thank you. MR. SAPERS: That's a yes twice. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That's great.

Maybe they should let the public know they're about to be invited. MR. SPEAKER: Supplemental question. MR. SAPERS: Thank you. To the Minister of Health: are all of the layoffs in hospitals tied to the coming commercialization that the Premier has mused about? MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, that question hardly dignifies an answer, but I will say that hos pitals in this province are responsible for managing their affairs. They manage their affairs, I believe, in a very responsible way. They are making decisions on work force as to the needs of their institution.

Certainly there is quite a downsizing occurring in our acute care sector, but we have to remember why. The reason is that we do not need the number of beds that we've had in this province in the acute care sector. I have outlined in this House many times, I think enough times for the hon. member to understand those reasons. I would just invite him to read Hansard or indeed talk to some of the people in the institutions to understand the need to downsize the number of acute care beds we have in this province. MR. SPEAKER: Final supplemental. MR. SAPERS: Thanks, Mr. Speaker.

The people that I've talked to in the institutions are the ones that are worried about their jobs. What categories of workers, minister, were you referring to in the Department of Health's business plan where it states that fewer workers will be employed in health, and those that are left working will be earning less money? 2:50 MRS. McCLELLAN: Mr. Speaker, what we are referring to in Alberta Health's business plan is a change in the way we deliver health services.

The hon. member would know that we set aside some $20 million for a work force adjustment strategy, that we have in place a tripartite committee to l ook at how we utilize those dollars. The way we deliver health services is changing. It is not just changing in Alberta; it is changing all over the world and all across Canada. There will be differences in numbers. There will be less workers in some areas in health care, and they will have new roles, and some of them will be making lesser salaries. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The time for question period has expired. The hon.

Minister of Municipal Affairs indicated that he wished to raise a point of order. Point of Order Clarification DR. WEST: It's actually a point of clarity, Mr. Speaker.

580 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Citation. DR. WEST: Twenty-three (i). I just wanted it clarified. The Minister of Education had indicated that the member for Lloydminster had been the chairman of a committee. That's the past member that now doesn't sit. The boundaries were changed – Vermilion-Lloydminster – and I just wanted it clarified so that it didn't direct an allegation to me that didn't exist. Point of Order Imputing Motives MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat had a point of order. DR. L. TA YLOR: Y es, Mr. Speaker.

Under Standing Order 23(i), Beauchesne 484(3), and Beauchesne 69, imputing motives. The hon. Leader of the Opposition suggested by a comment that he thought I had made, while I was in fact sitting quietly in my usual fashion, that I wanted to be Premier. I made no such comment. I would ask you to require the hon. leader to apologize and withdraw his comment, as that type of comment tends to inflame the House and inflame emotions in this House, and I'm sure he wouldn't want to do that. [interjections] MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order.

The Chair must admit that while the Chair didn't actually hear the full comment that led to the hon. Leader of the Opposition's comment, the Chair didn't think it came from the hon. Member for Cypress-Medicine Hat. It came from somewhere. Nevertheless, the Chair would remind the hon. Leader of the Opposition that – he may wish to com- ment. MR. DECORE: Oh, I regret that I called the hon. member arrogant. I take that back, Mr. Speaker. If I have somehow offended the hon. member in sort of deflating his ego, I apologize for that too. DR. L.

TA YLOR: I accept his humble apology. head: Motions under Standing Order 40 University Cup Victory MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, under Standing Order 40 on the question of urgency. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During the past weekend the University of Lethbridge men's hockey team won the Univer- sity Cup, signifying the championship in the CIAU playoffs. I would ask for unanimous consent of the Legislature to acknowl- edge this award for this group of young Albertans. MR. SPEAKER: Does the Assembly agree to the request of the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR.

SPEAKER: All those opposed? The hon. Member for Lethbridge-East. Moved by Dr. Nicol:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly offer congratulations to the University of Lethbridge Pronghorns hockey team upon their victory in winning the University Cup from the Canadian Interuniversity Athletic Union in the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, on Sunday, March 13, 1994. DR. NICOL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Assembly for this opportunity. The motion, which I explained, has been circulated. I'd like to begin by just acknowledging the Member for Lethbridge-West, who agreed to allow me to introduce this.

The university is actually in his constituency, but I have a special interest in a number of the people on the team. They were students in my classes during the previous life that I had before coming into the Legislature, and, also, my nephew is the captain of the team. Mr. Speaker, the achievement that the Pronghorns have brought to the University of Lethbridge is based on motivation.

The team began as just a club enterprise working out of the university playing with other teams in southern Alberta, and then 10 years ago they managed to secure permanent funding from the univer- sity and membership in the CIAU as a fully participating team. When we look back on the history of the Pronghorns, we can see this is truly an achievement that marks a year of triumph for them. Previously they've had less than a sterling performance. This is their first year over the 500 level, and they've gone all the way to the championship.

The achievement is especially notewor- thy in the sense that the University of Lethbridge is a small university playing against all of the universities across Canada. The university only has 4,200 students. They've been able to bring together from southern Alberta and across western Canada a team that really motivated itself this year, and under their new coach they were able to bring forth this championship. The future for the University of Lethbridge Pronghorns is really uncertain. The faculty council has voted to disband the intercolle- giate athletics as part of their budget-cutting process.

I think this activity this weekend will really bring the community to bear on the importance of athletics within the entire framework of a university, and I hope it gives both the faculty and the board a cause to re-evaluate their decisions. These young men through their dedication have brought recognition to their university, they've brought recognition to their province, and especially to themselves. I would just like to have the members of the Legislature recognize them and congratulate them on this opportu- nity. Thank you. MR. DUNFORD: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to begin by perhaps apologizing for some confusion as to who was bringing this motion forward. It was just such a critical situation that we had to make sure that someone from Lethbridge was to bring it to the House. I'm pleased to say that the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East has deemed that he would do this because even though the two of us share an interest and an attachment to the university, we say here, certainly in our caucus – and we should be saying always in the House – that family comes first.

Alberta was built on that principle, and we must maintain that both now and into the future, into the next century. So he has something, then, with this university Pronghorn hockey team that I am unable to have at this particular point in time, and that is to have a family member on that. I want to applaud the Nicol family, then, for raising such a fine son and such a fine hockey player. This story of the university Pronghorns – the Member for Lethbridge-East has touched on it – is a story that should be written about.

This story should go much further than just a brief debate here in the House on a Monday afternoon. The adversarial positions that this hockey team has had to overcome have only been briefly touched on. The first season that this hockey club

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 581 was in the western university league, they managed to win one game, Mr. Speaker. MR. HERARD: The other team didn't show up. MR. DUNFORD: Y es, the other team did show up. We had one victory. For those sports fans that exist in the Lethbridge area, we didn't have a party like we did yesterday, Mr. Speaker, but it was a big and great event because we'd finally entered into the win column. After that, year after year after year it was extremely difficult to watch these young people from this small university have to go through all of this trauma of continuing to lose hockey games.

There's a certain amount of pride that exists in the south. Certainly the Lethbridge area and southern Alberta generally have raised tremendous hockey players, and our inability to break through at the university level was a cause of some concern. I believe that it unfortunately perhap s led to situations within the university, as they of course were required to refocus on their dollars, as to what was going to happen then to an athletic program and in particular the Lethbridge Pronghorns hockey club.

So for the last number of years these folks have been living on the edge, and the stress and the pressure that must have been on them to perform just has to have been of great magnitude. I think it further exemplifies that the victory that they had yesterday was much more than just a simple victory of two teams on a sheet of ice trying to get pucks into nets. 3:00 These questions about funding have been there. They have continued. One of the things that I find frustrating, being in support of this government's initiatives, is that we have a situation where we want to see things done.

We want things to happen as we go forward in our restructuring, whether it be in health care or in education. Because of our own particular philosophy and indeed because of the things that have been done by this particular government, we've placed these autonomous boards into place. So we don't have direct access into how these f unds are to be expended. Nor should we.

I'm not standing here arguing for more central control within the province of Alberta, but it is frustrating for people like myself who have followed the history and the developing character of the Lethbridge Pronghorns hockey club to see what has gone on and the fact that they would have been placed in some jeopardy. The funding for the next three years is in place.

The members of the House should be aware that they will have to contend, if they are from Calgary and are supporters of the Calgary Dino- saurs or if they're from Edmonton and supporters of the Univer- sity of Alberta hockey club, with the Lethbridge Pronghorns in the immediate future. What can't be seen to be guaranteed is that that will go on further in the future.

So we want to encourage the people of Lethbridge, the parents of these boys, who come from all over Alberta, and certainly the people of Alberta in their congratulation to the University of Lethbridge Pronghorns hockey club to, one, get behind this club obviously spiritually, but, also, we want to see them start to contribute in a more direct fashion. I don't know how many members of the House have gone and watched a university hockey game. Mr. Speaker, this is exciting hockey.

For those of you who are used to watching NHL or perhaps go to the junior games and see the restriction that a person is placed in by a simple red line in the middle of the ice, you will enjoy going to a university game where that red line is ignored. It speeds up the game, and it is fast and furious action. It's worth the $6 that it would cost to go and watch them play. I want to say before I'm finished that while I was not able to be in Toronto yesterday, I was able to be in the arena when the Calgary Dinosaurs and the Lethbridge Pronghorns played the final three games. These were fast, hard-hitting affairs.

Now, either team could have represented the west with lots of pride and lots of talent, but in our particular case it was the Lethbridge Pronghorns, and they did Alberta proud. Some specifics, Mr. Speaker, that you should be aware of. The most valuable player in the championship tournament was Lethbridge left-winger Trevor Ellerman. The Lethbridge goalie, Trevor Kruger, has now been a winner of two national champion- ships. He was with the Swift Current Broncos when they won the junior A Memorial Cup, and now he has a CIAU national championship.

I want to conclude that this is the first national championship of a team from the University of Lethbridge, and we're all extremely proud of these young men, their coaches, their friends, and their parents, who come from all over this province. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Calgary-Varsity. MR. SMITH: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to speak to the motion, because I think that the motion reflects in effect the very fibre of Albertans and the ability for us to marry athletic excellence with scholastic endeavour and achievement.

In fact, the foundation of democracy in ancient Greece was that they married sport to academics. In fact, the school that I graduated from, Notre Dame college in Wilcox, Saskatchewan, based its whole athletic program on that. I was then very fortunate to be able to play college hockey at the University of Calgary prior to the Lethbridge team entering the CIAU. That year, as a matter of fact, which was 1967, we had a particularly august record of three and nine.

What a small school can demonstrate with the heart and with the soul that this hockey team ha s put together really indicates what western Canada is all about: it's an ability for people to gather strength from few, to be able to work under adversity, and to be able to emerge successfully in a spirit of competition yet in a spirit of knowing that the competition from athletics is also integrated with a university education.

Even the junior hockey league of western Canada has integrated a scholarship program with its junior players so that at the end of their junior careers they can attend colleges such as the University of Lethbridge, the University of Calgary, a small university up here, the University of Alberta, which has a particularly outstanding track record in intercollegiate hockey. I think it shows that we probably can do more for Albertans when they do it for themselves. It's always been said: let's put hockey back into the sloughs where it belongs.

Let's take it from its very roots of the game and let it develop into the excellent prospects and talent that Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba have exported not only to Canadian colleges but to university colleges and universities in the United States. There are Canadi- ans playing in a tremendous amount of universities throughout the United States. Also, they're playing in the European environment and domain. It just demonstrates the importance of athletics and of combining it with university or postsecondary education. I know that NAIT and SAIT have excellent hockey teams as well.

I think that what Lethbridge accomplished in a very short period of time is of extreme merit. They did it under what I guess we would traditionally call a funding restraint, but they recognized it as an opportunity for businesses from the community to get involved, other areas of the university. Indeed the football program from the University of Alberta has been picked up by a

582 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 rather good old hockey player himself, Mr. Comrie. I think that this is the kind of initiative that comes forward from Alberta to be able to assist the young hockey players to be able to grow. A lot of hockey players, unlike myself, Mr. Speaker, will actually achieve something in this sport and go on to achieve something in other walks of life not directly related to politics.

I would say that the spirit in the dressing room of those 18 would have been tremendously strong as they went through the progression in probably the toughest province in scholastic hockey in Canada: I mean, the University of Alberta Golden Bears, the University of Calgary Dinosaurs, the Mount Royal Cougars, the Lethbridge Pronghorns. I don't know where that name came from, Mr. Speaker, but it certainly illustrates a lot of strength and being on the end of something, I would think.

The congratulatory message from this Legislature I think is very strong not only to the athletic achievement such as the Olympic team or the University of Lethbridge team but for the ability of these individuals to recognize how important athletics are as a part of their overall development from youth into full adulthood. Certainly I would be much poorer for it had I not been fortunate enough for it to be a part of my life.

I know that there's going to be a bunch of new jackets being sported down in Lethbridge with CIAU champions, and I'm sure that every one of them will wear them proudly and that their community and their college will be equally proud. Thank you. 3:10 MR. SPEAKER: Is the Assembly ready for the question? All those in favour of the motion proposed by the hon. Member for Lethbridge-East, please say aye. HON. MEMBERS: Aye. MR. SPEAKER: Opposed, please say no. Let the record show that the motion carried unanimously. The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake. Arctic Winter Games MS CALAHASEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The motion I'm proposing to the Assembly is to congratulate the town of Slave Lake and the 1994 Slave Lake Arctic Winter Games Host Society for their outstanding job of hosting the 1994 World Arctic Winter Games. I believe it is important for us to recognize Albertans who showcased the beauty of our province and the abilities of our citizens on the international stage and to congratulate those who worked to develop our Alberta athletes. That is exactly what happened in the 1994 Arctic Winter Games last week. I believe that the Assembly should offer its congratulations to these proud Albertans. MR.

SPEAKER: Is the Assembly prepared to allow the hon. member to propose the motion? HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. SPEAKER: Opposed? Carried. The hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake. Moved by Ms Calahasen:

Be it resolved that the Legislative Assembly of Alberta congratu- late the town of Slave Lake and the 1994 Slave Lake Arctic Winter Games Host Society for their success in staging the 1994 Arctic Winter Games, and be it further resolved that the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly convey this congratulatory message in the usual manner. MS CALAHASEN: Thank you again, Mr. Speaker, and thank you very much to the Assembly for this opportunity. It was with great pride as aboriginal Albertans that my colleague the Hon.

Mike Cardinal and I closed an outstanding show during the Arctic Winter Games closing ceremony on Saturday in Slave Lake, Alberta. During the week of March 6 to 12 Slave Lake saw an influx of 1,300 athletes; 400 coaches, officials, and dignitaries; and about 8,000 spectators from as far away as Tuman, Russia; Greenland; Alaska; Yukon; the Northwest Territories; and of course Alberta. Last week will be remembered for years to come. The Arctic Winter Games are both athletic and cultural development with a heavy emphasis on culture.

This week-long cultural exchange includes art, song and dance, and sports both traditional such as the knuckle-hop or the one-foot high jump and modern such as hockey or volleyball. This is the first time Alberta has hosted the Arctic Winter Games, and never has such a large international athletic and cultural event occurred in Alberta since the 1988 Calgary Olympics. We were graced by such dignitaries as the Governor General of Canada, our very own Premier Ralph Klein, the vice- president of Greenland, the H on. Gary Mar, the Hon. Mike Cardinal, and many, many others. But many people deserve thanks, Mr.

Speaker, for without them this would not be possible. The Alberta government through three different departments: first, Alberta Lotteries, with the enthusias- tic support of our Deputy Premier, the Hon. Ken Kowalski; $1.3 million indicates the commitment of this government to our youth. Secondly, Alberta Community Development minister, the Hon. Gary Mar, and his staff, who have been unending in their support. Thirdly, the Family and Social Services minister, the Hon. Mike Cardinal, and of course 312 corporate sponsors, from major oil companies to small businesses in my constituency.

They, like us and the Alberta government, recognize that the money they give is an investment in our most valuable resource, the young people of our respective communities who will be our future leaders. And, of course, the town of Slave Lake and the 1994 Arctic Winter Games Host Society, which showed everyone action. In 1991 when the international Arctic Winter Games bid committee came to Slave Lake, I'm sure they had their doubts. But the people of Slave Lake never did. They were like the little engine that could, and they did. Over 2,000 volunteers from a community of 6,000: not bad at all.

They opened their homes to visiting athletes, used their spare time to help prepare Slave Lake, and worked long hours towards and during the 1994 Arctic Winter Games. The volunteers, Mr. Speaker, were the heart and soul of this event, and on behalf of the people of Alberta I thank them. They proved that small towns can run an event of this magnitude. The theme song of the 1994 Arctic Winter Games was: where the trails meet. It reflected the fact that these games were a chance for Albertans to meet and compete with other people from the north.

Rudyard Kipling once said, "East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet." Well, Mr. Speaker, Rudyard Kipling was wrong. The Arctic Winter Games exempli- fied the new spirit of global competition as athletes from east and west and north and south met in friendly competition. I am so proud of Slave Lake and the host society for the great legacy of the 1994 Arctic Winter Games which they have provided, which will be the long-lasting memories of the spirit of friendship and camaraderie that developed over the course of the games.

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 583 Congratulations go to all the athletes, their coaches, and the fans, to the host society's president, Dave Redgate, and his directors, and the volunteers, to the games' manager, Rhonda Groom, and her workers, and, third, to the town of Slave Lake mayor, Peter Moore, and his councillors for the outstanding job they did. They did Alberta proud. My headdress goes off to them all. Thank you. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Fort McMurray. MR. GERMAIN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

If the Assembly will allow me to add just a few short comments to that eloquent submission on behalf of the town of Slave Lake in this motion. As the MLA in this Assembly living almost the furthest north, I want to point out to this Assembly that northern Alberta represents 65 percent of the landmass of the province but only 10 percent of the population.

Any time that an event can take place in northern Alberta which attracts international attention to it, it is a highly deserved event, and when that event that attracts international attention is pulled off and handled in a sophisticated and virtually flawless way, it deserves the attention and recognition of this Assembly. I'm pleased to support the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Is the Assembly ready for the question? HON. MEMBERS: Question. MR. SPEAKER: All those in favour of the motion proposed by the hon. Member for Lesser Slave Lake, please say aye. HON. MEMBERS: Aye. MR.

SPEAKER: Opposed, please say no. Let the record show the motion carried unanimously. head: Orders of the Day head: Committee of Supply [Mr. Tannas in the Chair] MR. CHAIRMAN: Call the committee to order. Before calling on the Premier, I would just let the people in the gallery know that this is the less formal part of the Assembly. Committee stage permits people to move around, to indeed take their jackets off, to have coffee or juice, and even to converse ever so quietly with one another.

So it is the informal session as we go through the estimates. head: Main Estimates 1994-95 3:20 Executive Council Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs MR. CHAIRMAN: I'd call upon the hon. Premier to make his comments. MR. KLEIN: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and hon. members. Once again it's a privilege to appear before this committee to discuss our new approach to government fiscal responsibility and accountability. As we enter the second year of our four-year plan to restore fiscal balance to the Alberta govern- ment, we have a clear and specific map for our journey.

Our budget of February 24 confirms that we are indeed on track. Our departmental business plans are a first for any government in Canada. They lay out details on their spending over the next three years, departmental objectives, and ways of measuring whether those objectives are being met. This new approach focuses on long-term benefits for the province. Also, it makes each government department more accountable.

On that basis it is my privilege to address the Committee of Supply on behalf of Executive Council as well as three organizations for which I am directly responsible: the personnel administration office, the Public Affairs Bureau, and northern development. Finally, I will report on the Department of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs as its minister. I will speak briefly to each of these in turn. On the policy side, Mr.

Chairman, Executive Council will translate the overwhelming mandate given us last June into policy decisions and programs under the authority of the laws and the Legislative Assembly of Alberta. As such, Executive Council is responsible for fulfilling our mandate and delivering on the agenda for change set by Albertans, and it will continue to set the tone for leaner and more efficient government by finding new and more cost-effective ways to provide Albertans with the services they need.

In terms of budgeting, Executive Council includes not only administration, the offices of the Premier and the Lieutenant Governor, but also the personnel administration office, the Public Affairs Bureau, and northern development. This year's total net budget estimates for Executive Council as a whole are $24.7 million. This represents a reduction of 10.5 percent from last year's net forecast of $27.6 million.

Over the course of our four- year plan from 1992-1993 to 1996-97 the overall spending reduction will be 33.7 percent, but because revenues will increase during that period due to initiatives like the increased sale of government publications, the net reduction will grow to 36 percent. The personnel administration office, or PAO, is the central human resource arm of the Alberta government. Its job is to ensure we manage our employees with fairness and consistency.

In 1994 PAO will help departments set up systems to measure their overall performance, link what employees do with their departmental goals, and recognize and reward highly productive departments and employees. PAO will co-ordinate the Premier's forum, a new initiative to bring together about 50 representatives from universities, colleges, school systems, the health sector, municipalities, and the Alberta public service to open dialogue on managing change and improv- ing the ways of government. Other key tasks for the PAO include negotiating a collective agreement with our unions.

Our mandate, of course, is a 5 percent decrease in the first contract year. The PAO is also responsible for organizing the delivery of government training and development programs to give our employees the tools they need to better serve Albertans. It offers a wide-ranging package of career and financial support to employees affected by government restructuring, and it helps to match laid-off employees with vacant essential positions in the government. The PAO keeps employees informed of our major decisions through newsletters and other regular communications. Mr.

Chairman, in 1994-1995 the budget for PAO has been reduced from the 1993-1994 forecast of $8.9 million to $8.4 million, or 5.6 percent. Over the course of our four-year plan the overall spending reduction will be in the neighbourhood of 26.2 percent. The next organization on the agenda is the Public Affairs Bureau. The bureau is a governmentwide, full-service agency that provides support to government in its communications with

584 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 Albertans. In this period of great change the need for Albertans to understand what we are doing and why we are doing it is absolutely critical, and it is equally important to meet Albertans' demands for more and better information and communication. The bureau addresses these needs by providing communication support services and staff to departments and agencies as well as operating the regional information telephone inquiries, or the RITE system, the Queen's Printer bookstore, and the Alberta Communications Network.

Over the next three years the Public Affairs Bureau will improve Albertans' access to government through initiatives like using technology to modernize and streamline the RITE network, establishing a provincewide government RITE number, increasing the use of government 1-800 numbers – more than 20,000 Albertans have called our toll-free lines in the last few weeks alone – assessing communications functions across government to make them more effective and more co-ordinated and cost- efficient, and expanding the range of government information available through the Queen's Printer bookstores. This year, Mr.

Chairman, the Public Affairs Bureau's net budget is reduced from the 1993-1994 forecast of $9.2 million to $8.7 million, or a reduction of 5.4 percent. Its total decrease in expenditures over the course of our four-year plan will be 24.8 percent, but because the bureau's revenue will increase during that period, the net reduction will be 30.4 percent. Mr. Chairman, the northern development branch of Executive Council consists of the Northern Alberta Development Council, or NADC, and the administration of two development agreements that are cost shared between our province and the federal govern- ment.

The council's purpose is to address and advise government on special issues affecting northern Albertans. Based in Peace River, it is an important vehicle through which government policy and programs are implemented in the north. [interjection] Thank you.

In supporting the social and economic development of northern Alberta, the council provides ongoing services like giving northern Albertans an opportunity to discuss their concerns and ideas at public meetings, responding to requests from northerners for technical help on community and regional development projects, encouraging communities to support the council's student bursary program and its new bursary partnership program to help northern students attend postsecondary schools, funding training projects in remote communities to help people build for the future . . . [interjection] Thanks, Nick – and helping community-based initiatives that encourage local employment in areas of resource development like energy and forestry.

Because the development agreements with the federal govern- ment will be phased out over the next few years, northern development will reduce its budget substantially in that period, including a reduction from the 1993-94 forecast of $6.2 million to $4.5 million this year, or a reduction of 27.4 percent. This brings me, Mr. Chairman, to the last item on my list today, and that is the Department of Federal and Intergovernmen- tal Affairs, known as FIGA. This department is responsible for Alberta's relations with other provinces, the federal government, and the international community.

This covers a wide range of important areas, ranging from dropping international trade barriers to improving our federal system. Over the next few years Canada will undergo dramatic change as it deals with deficits, debts, and globalization. We are going to see a major restructuring of our federal system, and Alberta will need to remain strong in advancing its interests at home and abroad.

During that time, FIGA will work toward a number of goals: removing overlap and duplication in federal/provincial activities, eliminating trade barriers within Canada by 1995, continuing to reduce international trade barriers, pursuing an active and focused international role for Alberta, building a more effective federal system while diligently advancing Alberta's interests, and remaining actively involved in addressing the challenges of national unity.

In 1994-95 the budget for the Department of Federal and Intergovernmental Affairs has been reduced from the 1993-94 forecast of $6.4 million to $6 million, or a decrease of 6.3 percent. FIGA's overall spending reduction by 1996-1997 will be 20.8 percent. Mr. Chairman, this is simply a brief overview of the organiza- tions for which I am responsible. I would be pleased to elaborate further in responding to questions from the Committee of Supply. In addition, I'm sure that the chairman of the Northern Alberta Development Council would be happy to supplement any answers I might give relative to that agency.

Thank you very much. 3:30 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Premier, the committee has in the last little while frequently had those people who held chairmanships or whatever make general comments, if they wished to do so at this time, and then have the answers. The chairman of northern development. MR. JACQUES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I did want to add some general comments to those of the Premier with regard to the Northern Alberta Development Council.

As we proceeded into the development of our business plan this year for the year 1994- 95, we really went back to the basic issues of what the Northern Alberta Development Council was involved with in terms of its mandate. While it is clearly defined under the Act, we did shorten it down to indicate that it is the promotion of the economic and social development in northern Alberta through practical advice to government and through the delivery of develop- ment services to northerners.

One thing that's very important when we talk about NADC and its budget for the forthcoming year is to recognize the uniqueness of northern Alberta. The hon. Member for Fort McMurray a short time ago in a related issue indicated the fact that northern Alberta in terms of the Northern Alberta Development Council does indeed represent 60 percent of the landmass of the province of Alberta and yet contains only 10 percent of the population. But equally important in fact, if not more important, is the fact that on average the population in the north is younger than the provincial average, and what is of concern, Mr.

Chairman, is that the education, the literacy, and the income levels of northern Alber- tans are below that of the provincial average. If we talk about the issues of distance to markets and the delivery of services in this vast part of Alberta, then indeed those are the challenges that northerners face on a daily basis. The Northern Alberta Development Council, Mr. Chairman, in regard to its mandate for '94-95 will use its input in various ways, through public meetings, for example, of which we will be conducting at least five in the year, and at those meetings we generally average 25 to 40 briefs.

Those briefs are dealt with exhaustively by the council, and we attempt to put a reconciliation into place whereby the presenter ultimately is aware of what the action is of a particular department of the government or of a particular ministry. Indeed, we exercise a certain amount of judgment as to whether we present that brief directly to the minister at the outset or whether we put it directly to department officials. The NADC also, Mr. Chairman, deals with major projects; for example, the one in December that was recently completed

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 585 involving the fish and game of northern Alberta. Within the last 10 days we have made that report public, and we have submitted it to the hon. minister with regard to recommendations that we believe should be enacted as it relates to northern Albertans. The Premier has also touched briefly on the northern Alberta agreement. Mr.

Chairman, one thing I did want to make note of is that effective in January of this year direct grants to businesses were deleted as a result of discussions with our federal counter- parts, and indeed what we are doing is spreading the resources more into the community areas, into the research areas, and into the association areas. Mr. Chairman, there's one other thing that I want to note, and that is with regard to the northern input into programs and policies with respect to this government.

This has been a very important role and a very important interrelationship that has existed in prior years, in prior governments. As we proceed through the budget year and in years to come, that mandate and that role will be more important than ever. Northern Alberta is unique. We have a unique organization, and I applaud the Premier for the structure that he has set up whereby we report directly to the Premier. This has not always been the case in the past, and it has presented a unique opportunity for northern Albertans. With that, Mr.

Chairman, I will conclude my remarks and am prepared to answer any specific questions as they may arise. Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. The hon. Member for Redwater. MR. N. TA YLOR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've just been fighting a losing battle with my loose-leaf here. They are inventing things now that are real mousetraps. First of all, congratulations to the Premier for being alive and alert to be here to defend his estimates. I will also take the Premier's order of events and do the Executive Council first and FIGA later. I've always been very interested in northern affairs.

My first two children were born when I lived in Peace River. Grande Prairie at that time was a suburb of P eace River, and they've come quite far since thos e days. I think it's fitting that somebody from Grande Prairie-Wapiti should be in. I might mention that, too, as I think one of my daughter's first law practices was in Grande Prairie. I don't r ecall the member's name being on the docket, so he must have been a good clean- living soul. One thing I was interested in though. In northern development one of the criticisms I'd make maybe is a little unusual for this Legislature.

I don't think you should cut in this area. This is an area you should raise funds in for two reasons. One is that the northern part of our province is an underdeveloped area. It's a hinterland. Edmonton and south have a tendency to look at the north in the same way that Toronto looks at Alberta, yet we never recognize the mote in our own eye.

We think that wisdom and civilization and all good things beautiful originate south of Barrhead and everything north of there is a wilderness with a few animals and whites and nonwhites running around, that we can go there and exploit it and take out all the oil we want and all the gravel and so on and so forth.

The north, I think has been mentioned before many times, not only has 65 percent of our land area but has 80 percent of Alberta's disposable water, and if there's a shortage – and I mention this as an earth scientist – in the generations to come, it's going to be water, not even food, because we seem to be biotech- nologically able to keep up with food for the growing population in the world, but we're not keeping up with water. Water's a very critical area, so consequently we're going to be faced with either bringing the water south or bringing the people north.

I think it's a lot easier to bring the people north. It's a nice climate; it's a nice area to live. I think, after all, if you want to establish preserves, maybe it should be over the south where it's dried out and bald. Do your development in the north. That leads to a second question. A high percentage of our native population still lives in the north and will continue to live in the north. A lot of them are living in Third World conditions. If you've toured in the Fort Vermilion, Tallcree, Wabasca areas, it's not good. I think the Premier would agree with me.

They have been short-circuited or left out of a lot of the government services that the south takes for granted. Not only do we have this barren area that I've mentioned but this huge native popula- tion that has been shut out of the normal run of progress over the last two or three generations. These should surely combine to make this an area of high investment. We should be increasing the money we spend here. 3:40 The last argument I make is that I've never heard of a north- erner or a native burying government money in a can. It goes right back into circulation. It goes back and creates jobs.

I think an economy that cuts off the north and cuts off our entrepreneurs, particularly our native entrepreneurs that are coming, out of access to money is cutting its own throat. It's the wrong way to do things, and we should be increasing the f unds that we spend there, taking it out of other areas in the south if we have a shortage. I don't of course buy the government philosophy that every dollar you cut is a dollar saved. I think, just as I was in business for many years, dollars we spend drilling a hole are different from dollars that you spend building a building.

It's different from a dollar you spend buying a lunch, which is different from the dollar that you spend for maybe painting a building. They're all treated differently taxwise, and some return money, some don't. If you pay a dollar to a foreign consultant that comes in and tells you what's wrong, that's a dollar lost. Y ou never see it again. A dollar that a tourist brings in is a very, very good dollar, because all a tourist ever costs you, if worse comes to worse, is you might have to put him in a pine box and ship him home, but every dollar th at they spend is a new dollar that they bring in.

So a dollar that we spend on the north and on our native people and on our entrepreneurs trying to get under way creates more work, creates more business, and is a very good investment indeed. Therefore, I would fault this government for being a little bit lemminglike in reducing the deficit in that this an area that is going to cost in the long run. It will hurt our society. I can hear the Member for Rocky Mountain House shaking his head right now. I'll be back later to tell him some of the reasons behind it. While we're on Executive Council, those are the last nice words that you will hear, I think, Mr.

Premier. I'm not so sure it's nice. I think, as I mentioned, that you and your advisers may be shortsighted in cutting money up there. There was a letter written by the Member for Calgary-Currie last year dated October 19, 1993, asking for information, and it hasn't been answered. One of the questions that the member asked was the government's policy in the release of polls con- ducted by the Public Affairs Bureau, the Public Affairs Bureau that the minister mentioned as being of great advantage to the west. I doubt if it is. Later on I will be moving an amendment, Mr.

Premier, that this department has its budget cut to one dollar. If you really want to keep them employed, send them up north cutting wood and helping in the north, but don't leave them down here putting out paper.

586 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 The second item: could the minister confirm whether John Doesberg has been hired to provide advice on privatization for the Premier's office or the government? If Mr. John Doesberg has been hired, what is his salary and function? Could the Premier provide a list of all people under contract with the Department of FIGA who are not public servants? One of them would be, of course, a former minister. Has the minister anything in the FIGA studies on implications to Alberta about negotiated side deals in NAFTA?

Now, one of the interesting things is that we see a slight reduction in the office of the Premier, but it was noted over the last few years that expenses for the Premier's office increased by about 50 percent. This was over the last three or four years. I was wondering if the Premier was aware of that. Although he's made a slight reduction in the last year, if you go back over four or five years, he has obviously taken on some new duties of some sort. I think otherwise it wouldn't go up. Maybe the Premier will get time to answer that. Back to communications planning.

The Premier mentions what a good job they are doing. He skirted the question earlier, but if they are doing a good job, why would the Premier spend $50,000 to use the CFCN-CFRN fireside network when we could have got one cheaper? I know he called it fireside, which I think was an unfortunate slip, Mr. Chairman, because when I think of a politician and fireside, I think of Nero fiddling while Rome burned. In this case it was the Premier diddled while the province burned. The fact of the matter is that there was $50,000 spent out of this budget that was unnecessary.

The Access Network, although our Minister of Municipal Affairs sometimes questions what it puts out – this would have been a chance for him to put out the gospel according to St. Ralph rather than what our Minister of Municipal Affairs occasionally complains a bout. Actually, I think it's an unnecessary department, especially with as good a PR person as the Premier in charge. The Premier could, I think, save the public of Alberta three-quarters of a million dollars, $753,999 to be exact, by doing his own PR. He doesn't need a department of that size – that's vote 4.0.2 – to spread his gospel.

He does a very good job himself. Now, while we're on Executive Council, another area we could have saved on – and I'm going to have to be corrected on this, possibly. House leader, is it a $70,000 budget that we have for an office down south? Fifty thousand, is it? Fifty thousand dollars have been allotted to the Liberal opposition for an office in Calgary, which I think is rather silly, not that the Liberal opposition shouldn't have an office.

But when we have a big building down there – they don't have the building network we have up in Edmonton, but there should have been some way that they could have sneaked their Liberals into a basement someplace. That would have saved the taxpayer $50,000. Y ou might have had to displace the janitor or the traffic cop or whatever it is around one of those government buildings, but surely there could have been some space for the Liberal opposition, and we wouldn't have had to spend the money. To move on to FIGA.

This has been near and dear to my heart for some time, because as a businessman the interprovincial trade barriers we have up here between provinces are really not as much regulatory as they are

interpretations given by different bureaucrats from time to time. Consequently, I've always argued that there's no reason why we shouldn't have a GATT type of organization for Canada. We may not call it the general agree- ment on tariffs and trade. We might want to call it the provincial agreement on trade and tariffs or trade and restrictions. We could always pick out an acronym of some sort that was indicative of what it should do.

The problems we have between interprovincial trade, which are now very obvious b ecause of NAFTA and the U.S. agreement – we have more restrictions between provinces than we have between an international boundary, between Mexico and the U.S. – mean that we should have an ongoing organization like GATT that spots and highlights these arguments. Now, hiring somebody at a t housand dollars a day to negotiate on something that they've been at for 10 years is not going to solve the issue at all. We need to be able to make a high-profile cause out of interprovincial trade barriers.

In this type of organization – and this is one of the few times, Mr. Premier, you'll get free advice from this side of the House. I'm suggesting the same type of system that you use in GATT, two or three members from every one of the provinces needing this organization having some authority – you can't give them too much authority but give them some authority – to at least hold up some trading or pass resolu- tions on trade, much as GATT has, but more particularly to say, "Hey, did you know Alberta is shipping chicken into Ontario and won't allow cheese in here?" or vice versa, Ontario won't allow Alberta.

In other words, get it up to a much higher profile than politicians meeting around a table once or twice a year quietly discussing their little prejudices between each other. I think a GATT type agreement would be able – and we're on the cause of right. I think most Albertans think Albertans are usually right.

Therefore, it works out to our advantage to have the argument take place in a theatre that everybody can see. 3:50 Two, three, four times a year this organization meets, although it has a secretariat going all year-round, and it highlights and says that Quebec is doing this and they shouldn't do it, that Alberta's doing this and they shouldn't do it, that Manitoba's doing this and they should. In other words, we need to have a higher profile because I think the public themselves will become more incensed if they see trade regulations back and forth or interprovincial trade barriers.

I think it would be very easy to set up. It's worked out very well for the international community. It's only been set up about 15 years in the international community, and although some people complain about it, it's done wonders. I happen to be old enough now to remember international trade before GATT was there, and it's almost as different as day and night. It's been a heck of an improvement on highlighting what does go on in trade.

Before that, local politicians or different state politicians were always able to make cause and argue that they were being discriminated against and not mention the fact that they themselves were discriminating also. GATT put this into a public theatre, and it seems to have evened out a lot. I notice a couple more things on page 15 in the business plan that the Premier had. For FIGA it promises to operate a number of "protocol events . . . on a cost-recovery basis." This was most intriguing.

I could just see the Turkish ambassador fumbling around looking for Canadian dollars b ecause he was charged admission for coming to Alberta. I'm just wondering how the heck we're going to work about getting protocol events on a cost- recovery basis, or is the Lieutenant-Governor going to have to get a Visa card before he can go out to some other functions? This is going to be very interesting, just how the Premier intends to get money recovered on a protocol basis.

On the other hand, I suppose, the Swedish ambassador arrives; you could send a letter to all the people with a name like Johnsen or Johannson and ask for money because the Swedish ambassador's in town and you want to balance the budget. A ll in all, it doesn't seem too sensible. The OSLO project, Mr. Premier, for some reason is in your department. I'm wondering if you could give us any more update on that.

March 14, 1994 Alberta Hansard 587 Lastly, the whole department of FIGA. I can't find it here right now, but as I recall, we have more employees than Ontario in Federal and Intergovernmental – yes, here it is. Ontario has 60 employees and we have 74. We've reduced it from 77, but I don't think that's good enough, Mr. Premier. B.C. has only 15, and they're larger than Alberta too.

Y ou probably inherited the carryover of the Napoleonic dreams of the Lougheed era, where they thought they were going to take over the whole world, if not Canada, and you may have this small army of bureaucrats marching along singing Solidarity Forever or whatever they're doing back there, but I don't quite see why B.C. can get by with 15 and we need 74. I'd suggest you cut all that money back and put that extra money in native development in the north. That, Mr. Chairman, is all I have to say, and I'll be along with a couple amendments later. One is to strike the publicity department's budget down to zilch.

I can't do it to zero. I think I've got to do it to a dollar. The other will be that the Premier's FIGA department have an independent and objective system of performance measures developed to measure the calibre of operations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. MR. KLEIN: I can either take note of those questions and try and answer them later on or address some of them now, Mr. Chairman. I don't know what the procedure is. MR. CHAIRMAN: However the committee wishes, Mr. Premier. If you wish to respond now, fine. If you would wait until a few more, that's fine too. Either is acceptable. MR. KLEIN: What I'll do, Mr.

Chairman, is I'll wait and see what other questions come forward and try and answer them all later. MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure. Calgary-Currie and then Calgary-Buffalo. MRS. BURGENER: I appreciate the opportunity to speak on the issues regarding FIGA. A responsibility that I undertook shortly after the election was to be the cohost of the Canada/U.S. legislators' project that was held in Lake Louise in January of this year. My hon. colleague from Redwater spoke about the need for relationships with our other provincial counterparts, most specifically on the trade barrier issue.

I can assure you that from spending two or three days with some colleagues from across Canada and from across United States respecting their particular state legislations we have a great deal of commonality, and part of that is just basically sharing information. At that time the theme of the conference was two issues. One was health care reform and one was the issue of NAFTA. I think we in Canada struggle with the perception that our health care system is not only perfect but beyond reproach.

Quite clearly, when you explain some of the benefits and strengths of our health care system and then you hold them up to the critique of another system, vis-à-vis what exists in the United States, you understand that what we have can indeed be looked at, can indeed be retooled, and in fact can be modified. The fear of a two-tiered health system as a result of having a look at some of the privatiza- tion models really bears further discussion based on some of the information that was shared with me. I'd like to speak for a brief minute on some of the colleagues that I met at that time.

Because as we deal with federal and intergovernmental affairs – and there are many, not just the trade and tariff issues that the Member for Redwater was speaking to but more clearly an understanding of what the issues are that affect Canada and how we build relationships as politicians so that we can deal with them when they come to the table.

I'm certain at any First Ministers' Conference that issues affecting Alberta will only be successfully advanced if there's been a relationship built, and I think it is the responsibility of MLAs to look at their counterparts in other assemblies, both in Canada and United States, to assist us in dealing with that. The host of this conference was the Hon. Darren Praznik, who is the Manitoba Minister of Labour and northern affairs. Mr. Praznik in his opening address invited us all to share information in an impartial way. Now, obviously Mr. Praznik's government under the Hon.

Gary Filmon is a Conservative government, but we had representatives there from Saskatchewan and from British Columbia giving us a New Democratic's perspective. We also interestingly enough had a representative from the government of Quebec, Mr. Benoit Fradet, who is the minister of youth for the National Assembly in Quebec, and I felt it was very interesting. He spoke to us about what the implications were of the rise of the Bloc and the PQ in the upcoming election in Quebec.

So some of our informal discussions gave us an opportunity to get a sense of issues that were on the table, whether they were on our political agenda or not. One of the interesting things in talking about NAFTA was the recognition – and I think it's significant to Albertans; it's coming to the surface as we deal with some of our fiscal restructuring – that the federal government is responsible for negotiating and signing a number of agreements including NAFTA. Because of the particular jurisdiction we have in Alberta, the provinces are often responsible for implementing some of these agreements.

It certainly can provide us with a need for further discussion, because quite often we have to res pond to national issues at a provincial level, and while they may have an overriding effect of our responsib ility and a better understanding for our province, they also carry with them a significant financial burden, a cultural burden, and often a social burden. Some of the issues that we talked about were such things as immigration and such things as changes in health care and such things as changes in trade agreements.

If I could just speak briefly on the issue of immigration, although it was an informal topic, we had as an aside at the conference the fact that we have agreements with the federal government on immigration policy and have such things as the family unification process, which allows a certain percentage of immigrants to be brought into Canada.

While we are all embrac- ing and recognize the need to reunite families who have been separated because of war and other reasons, there is an implica- tion of cost, as some of these family members are either very young or very old and certainly our young students have to access an effective ESL program and our elderly will be needing support through the health care system. Y et we as Albertans have no way of recognizing or addressing the financial implication.

Let me make it very clear that the issue we discussed was not wishing to discontinue anything with respect to family unification but to have a chance to have that voice at the table.

I can assure members in this House that if we were not colleagues across Canada and if we did not meet through such organizations as FIGA, the confidence to be able to go forward with proposals would not exist. 4:00 One of the issues also had to do with NAFTA and the fact that there are very serious financial penalties that are imposed through the agreement and that those financial responsibilities, if we do not meet the criteria of particular agreements, will be borne by the provinces. I can assure you that where we here in Alberta

588 Alberta Hansard March 14, 1994 have the right to raise and levy taxes, some of our counterparts in the States don't have some of that same opportunity, and it raised a real area of awareness of exactly what it meant to enter into a free trade agreement. We also looked at opportunities for some of our professionals to move interprovincially and also across the border. We know how difficult it is with respect to green cards and establishing residency.

So some of the strengths had come from the fact that what you have is a product and what you have is a market, dealing with that and trying to get rid of the technicalities and the bureaucracy. We had a chance to listen to the American consul representa- tive, Mr. Bill Witting, who is located in Calgary and actually finishing up his term. He will be returning to Washington.

He spoke informally at one of our dinners about what it means to sit as an American in a Canadian jurisdiction and try and advance not only connections to assist people in making business arrangements under the new regulations of NAFTA but also giving some of that cultural and bureaucratic insight. Again

Document details

Collection	Alberta — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	19940314
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	L23 S2 19940314 1330 01 han.pdf
Language	en
Format	json
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9ac036d368d67e73ec2caff295d29bd0090efc3c

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