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November 21, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Nov-21 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Monday 21 November 2005 Lundi 21 novembre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SPECIAL CARE HOMES

YOUNG PEOPLE

DISASTER RELIEF

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

DISASTER RELIEF

GARTH TAYLOR

PUBLIC SAFETY

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON ESTIMATES

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PHYSICAL FITNESS DAY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA JOURNÉE

DE L'APTITUDE PHYSIQUE

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (ORGAN DONATION EDUCATION), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (ÉDUCATION SUR LE DON D'ORGANES)

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

RENEWABLE FUELS

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

RENEWABLE FUELS

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

RENEWABLE FUELS

GORDON SMITH

ORAL QUESTIONS

LAYOFFS

VIOLENT CRIME

LAYOFFS

VIOLENT CRIME

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

STUDENT SAFETY

GRIDLOCK

HOSPITAL SERVICES

PRIMARY HEALTH CARE

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

CASINO TAXATION

ONTARIO TRILLIUM FOUNDATION

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

VISITOR

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

PROSTATE CANCER

CORMORANTS

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

CELL PHONES

PUBLIC LIBRARIES

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

STUDENT SAFETY

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

ROYAL ASSENT /

SANCTION ROYALE

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LES MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES

BUDGET MEASURES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

SUR LES MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SPECIAL CARE HOMES

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): Throughout Ontario, hundreds of vulnerable adults live in homes for special care. These homes provide a warm,

secure, stable and friendly environment for fragile Ontarians, allowing them to lead fulfilling lives. The alternative for many of these individuals is a life of homelessness on the street.

The homes that these vulnerable Ontarians live in are mostly run by individual owner-operators who provide a home life, not an institutional life.

Special care homes have only had a single 3% increase since 1999. The funding they receive in no way matches the rising costs they face, particularly as the

homes provide services well beyond just shelter and food. The owner-operators of special care homes want to be able to provide the care and services that vulnerable adults need. They cannot do this

without a reasonable increase in funding from the government.

The Liberal government promised in the Ontario election that it would "significantly increase supportive housing options for those suffering from mental

illness." I call on the government to bring in an immediate increase in funding to homes for special care. They provide much more than good value for money: They give vulnerable adults a home where

they can live a safe, secure and meaningful life.

YOUNG PEOPLE

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): Even as a person who considers himself to be the world's oldest teenager, I find it a challenge at

times to know exactly what our young people are up to these days, so I made a list of observations over the past week.

I had the privilege of presenting Ontario volunteer awards several weeks ago to an overwhelming number of young people who had contributed to their

community:

-- On Halloween just past, significant numbers of young people served to monitor the streets and guard and make sure that everything was being done safely.

-- Our food banks in this community depend on young people and their contributions.

-- In community kitchens in my community we have young volunteers, especially for this coming Christmas Day.

-- Many, many of our seniors benefit from young people coming in and spending some time with them, and in fact having a grandparent-grandchild role.

-- The Water for Katrina project that we undertook: Young people brought in their paper route money or their part-time employment money to make sure that people

in the southern US had water to drink.

-- Volunteers in our hospitals: We could not do without them.

-- Our air, sea and army cadets: tremendous young people contributing to their community and to their country.

-- Book buddies in schools: high school students who help elementary students to read.

-- Library volunteers, over and over: I'm thinking of the Stirling library and the number of volunteers there.

-- We have native dancers on our reserve who preserve their culture.

-- The student trustees who sit on each school board: By their time, given freely, they contribute so much to the school system.

-- Our young people organize, coach and referee sports.

Our country is in good hands and has a great future because of the tremendous quality of young people we have in this province.

DISASTER RELIEF

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): On the very first day the House resumed sitting this fall, I informed members of the tornadoes that had

touched down in Waterloo-Wellington in late August, causing catastrophic damage in Centre Wellington and Mapleton townships.

While I've expressed appreciation to the Minister of Community Safety and the Minister of Municipal Affairs for their willingness to tour the devastated areas of

my riding and I have expressed our appreciation to the Premier for his assurance of the government's support in a telephone conversation we had on September 9, I must now inform the House that the

government's initial response of $335,100 in disaster assistance is completely and totally insufficient.

Two weeks ago, I wrote an open letter to the Minister of Municipal Affairs asking that he revisit this matter. Today I'm asking him to consider the comments in a

letter he has received from Mayor John Green of the township of Mapleton. Mayor Green writes, "While we appreciate the initial assistance of $152,600, we are somewhat disappointed that this amount

falls far short of the overall uninsured damages to public infrastructure, including costs incurred by the county of Wellington and the Grand River Conservation Authority."

I know that the government does not want to appear to be callously indifferent in response to a natural disaster occurring within the province, and I had

confidence in the Premier's statements to me and Mayors John Green and Russ Spicer. I hope that my confidence was not misplaced. Therefore, I call upon the Minister of Municipal Affairs to invite

representatives from the affected townships, the county of Wellington and the GRCA to meet with him and, at that meeting, announce an increase in the special assistance grant to my communities.

EMPLOYMENT SUPPORTS

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): Earlier this month, there was a very special graduation held at the Marty Karl Centre in downtown Hamilton.

On November 4, 16 students completed a 22-week job and life skills training course aimed at easing the transition for Hamiltonians living on social assistance to finding real, meaningful

employment.

In 2001, Statistics Canada counted 14,533 Hamiltonians living on social assistance and facing physical or mental barriers to employment. Programs like this

prepare people for the transition back to work and provide guidance and support for six months after they re-enter the workforce. This course boasts an 88% success rate, with graduates finding

employment with companies like Dofasco, Swiss Chalet and even McMaster University.

We all need support in our lives. We all need friends and family to encourage us and to support us in our careers, no matter what path we choose. When such

supports are missing in one's life, it is refreshing to know that there are places like the Marty Karl Centre that offer a helping hand.

I would like to take this time to congratulate the 16 graduates of the Marty Karl Centre's training program and to wish them the best of luck as they embark on

this new journey in life. Programs like these, generously supported by our government, ensure that we are one step closer to eradicating poverty and demonstrate the caring and progressive community

that is the hallmark of Hamilton.

GOVERNMENT'S RECORD

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): This year, Ontario has witnessed a record-high number of gun homicides. As the shootings mounted this summer, the

Premier and his Attorney General chose to go into hibernation. A collection of poorly planned initiatives and announcements that lack detail have since followed. However, the violence has

continued, and after the events of last Friday, Ontarians have seen gun violence go to a whole new level. Once again, we've heard nothing from the Premier. The McGuinty Liberals are asleep at the

switch on crime.

Today, the Ontario Medical Association has released a report that says that Ontario's doctor shortage is worsening and that our health care system could collapse

under the pressure of this single issue. The McGuinty Liberals are asleep at the switch on the doctor shortage.

Also today, we heard that the emergency room waiting times in Ontario are out of control, and in some cases causing death. This despite an empty promise by the

current Premier to lower wait times. The McGuinty Liberals are asleep at the switch on emergency room wait times.

Today at Queen's Park, we've heard more about gridlock and its effect on the Ontario economy. However, the Premier's solution to gridlock is to use the private

plane to fly from Toronto to Hamilton, leapfrogging all the gridlock on the QEW. The McGuinty Liberals are asleep at the switch on gridlock.

On the jobs front, plant closures and layoffs by major provincial employers like GM and Ford seem of no priority to the Premier. We are now told that thousands

of layoffs lie on the horizon for Ontario's auto industry. The McGuinty Liberals are asleep at the switch on jobs.

DISASTER RELIEF

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): Not so long ago, at the end of the summer, this government turned its back on Hamilton's plea for help. My

city asked for disaster relief following incredible flooding damage from a major storm on August 19.

Hamilton wasn't being unreasonable. Hamiltonians simply asked for help for costs not covered by property insurance, including cleanup and repairs to residences

and businesses. But what was the response? Hamilton residences and businesses got nothing but a callous, negative reply from the provincial McGuinty Liberals.

Hamilton has once again been struck by misfortune by way of a natural disaster, and this time the province must come through with some financial assistance. The

city was struck by a tornado on November 9. It cut a swath through several residential neighbourhoods, which suffered extensive damage. Winds from the tornado reached as high as 170 kilometres per

hour. It ripped roofs off houses, toppled trees, hurled motor homes and fencing through the air, cleaving a path of destruction from the east mountain to lower Stoney Creek. Lawfield middle school

was wrenched right off its foundation and needs to be completely rebuilt.

The province simply cannot turn its back on Hamilton again. Rebuilding Lawfield middle school alone will cost close to $10 million. Some homes were rendered

unliveable due to damage from the winds and flying debris. Cars were mangled, windows blown out, trees uprooted and roofs lost. The McGuinty Liberals should do the right thing for Hamilton. This

tornado caused extensive damage; the city and its residents need provincial help. Provide provincial assistance through the Ontario disaster relief assistance program so that the necessary repairs

and rebuilding are undertaken swiftly and effectively.

GARTH TAYLOR

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): Today, I pay tribute to a man who has done what all of us here aspire to do: He made a

difference. I speak of the late Dr. Garth Taylor, who, until his death this past Saturday, served as chief of ophthalmology at the Cornwall Community Hospital in my riding of

Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh.

In addition to treating patients in Cornwall, Dr. Taylor taught ophthalmology at Queen's University in Kingston. His students learned that most of those in

danger of losing their eyesight could be treated by simple, low-cost medical techniques. Dr. Taylor considered it a moral obligation to help those around the world who lacked access to these

treatments. Through his work with Orbis International, Dr. Taylor undertook numerous overseas missions, conducting sight-saving surgeries in some 60 countries.

Dr. Taylor faced and overcame racism in his drive to help the less fortunate of the world, sharing his vision of a world where people are judged on the merit of

their skills rather than on their ethnicity. His professionalism was blind to all but the needs of his patients.

Dr. Garth Taylor has been honoured by Orbis International. He is one of Macleans magazine's 10 Canadians who made a difference in 2004, and recently received the

Order of Jamaica, his home country's highest honour. To his countless patients, students and his community, he was a visionary.

It is my honour to recognize this great man today. Through his selfless actions and determination to better our world by his skills, Dr. Taylor touched the lives

of countless thousands. Through them, his legacy of commitment and compassion will live on. The sympathy of the community is extended to his wife, children and family.

PUBLIC SAFETY

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): I recently sat down with York regional police chief Armand La Barge. The purpose of our meeting was to have a

candid conversation about policing and community safety issues that affect my constituants and, in fact, all Ontarians.

As of November 15, there have been 69 murders, of which 48 are gun-related deaths in the GTA. This government knows it has to be tough on crime. Recent

initiatives include the gun amnesty program, the gangs and guns task force, stronger sentencing, 1,000 additional police officers, and requests to the federal government to amend a number of

reforms to firearms offences in the Criminal Code.

Gun violence is not the only problem facing Ontarians. Marijuana grow-ops, massage parlours fronting for prostitution, home invasions, bullying and gang violence

are among the issues that communities across Ontario have to face. This government has made great strides in addressing these issues from a legislative perspective; however, these criminal acts

cannot be eliminated by legislation alone. Every member of the community -- civil servant or civilian -- needs to participate in keeping communities safe.

Chief La Barge and I discussed the need for communities to get involved. People need to be informed about criminal activity, know what to look for, and be

prepared to report any suspicious activity in their neighbourhoods. With strong legislation, a devoted police force, and communities committed to keeping their streets safe, Ontario can continue to

be one of the safest --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION

Mr. Wayne Arthurs (Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge): Recently I had the opportunity to address about 100 journalism students at Durham College as a

guest speaker for their Canadian government course. The class was filled with enthusiastic and keen undergraduates eager to learn about the interaction between provincial, municipal and federal

government activities.

The visit also gave me an opportunity to reflect on the McGuinty government's support for Ontario's post-secondary students. Durham College and the University of

Ontario Institute of Technology have received significant capital funding from our government to support a rapidly growing student body.

I spoke with Dr. Gary Polonsky, the president of Durham College and UOIT, and with Thomas Coughlan, the president of the united student association. They wish to

thank Premier McGuinty and Minister Bentley for the Reaching Higher plan. Colleges have been organizing and continue to organize events in their communities to encourage discussions on skills

strategies to ensure that Ontario's workforce is prepared for the challenges of the 21st century. According to Dr. Polonsky, this plan will greatly benefit students and it will also benefit the

research capacity for strategic sectors in Durham; for example, the auto manufacturing sector and energy.

The students at Durham College have proven to me that our government's commitment to Ontario's post-secondary students will continue to foster the brightest

minds in the country.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE

ON ESTIMATES

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Standing order 62(

a) provides that the standing committee on estimates shall present one report with

respect to all of the estimates and supplementary estimates considered pursuant to standing orders 59 and 61 no later than the third Thursday in November of each calendar year.

The House not having received a report from the standing committee on estimates for certain ministries on Thursday, November 17, 2005, as required by the

standing orders of this House pursuant to standing order 62(b), the estimates before the committee of the Ministry of Tourism and Recreation and the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines are

deemed to be passed by the committee and are deemed to be reported and received by the House.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PHYSICAL FITNESS DAY ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LA JOURNÉE

DE L'APTITUDE PHYSIQUE

Mr. O'Toole moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 32,

An Act proclaiming Physical Fitness Day / Projet de loi 32, Loi proclamant la Journée de l'aptitude physique.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Today we are all quite aware of the issue of obesity and how it affects the termination of life. Even this

government recognizes that it's important for our students to have physical activities every single day. This bill simply proclaims the first Friday in September as Physical Fitness Day, and I

commend it to your reading.

EDUCATION AMENDMENT ACT (ORGAN DONATION EDUCATION), 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR L'ÉDUCATION (ÉDUCATION SUR LE DON D'ORGANES)

Mr. Levac moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 33,

An Act to amend the Education Act with respect to education on organ donation / Projet de loi 33, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'éducation

à l'égard de l'éducation sur le don d'organes.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member may have a brief statement.

Mr. Dave Levac (Brant): The bill amends the Education Act, permitting the minister to establish an organ donation education policy framework,

and requires school boards to include education on the importance of organ donation in the curriculum of students in the senior division, such that every student, subject to certain expectations,

who receives their OSSD will have learned the importance of organ donation. I can only say that we need more of this. To fulfill our needs in this province, we need to start somewhere, and I think

this is the place to do so.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

Hon. Mike Colle (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration): This is a breakthrough day for the people and the government of Ontario, and for

the thousands of immigrants we welcome to our province each year. Just hours ago, I joined my federal counterpart, Minister Volpe, in signing the first-ever Canada-Ontario immigration

agreement.

First of all, I would like to thank Premier Dalton McGuinty for his relentless efforts in putting Ontario's newcomers front and centre in his fight for

fairness. This is the first major breakthrough in the hard-fought $23-billion gap campaign led by our Premier.

This is indeed a proud day for all of us. We are the first Ontario government to sign an immigration agreement with the federal government. Ontario's newcomers

will finally get their fair share of federal funding for services to help them get started, such as settlement services and language training.

Our government is dedicated to helping newcomers reach their full potential in Ontario. Ontario, as you know, welcomes over 125,000 newcomers every year.

That's about the population of Prince Edward Island. We welcome more than half of all immigrants to Canada. This milestone agreement means a great deal to those people who choose Ontario as their

home. It quadruples federal funding from $819 per immigrant for settlement and language programs to over $3,400 per immigrant. That's a total of $925 million over the next five years.

learn the language they need to work in their professions. This will benefit as many as 30,000 more newcomers. Settlement services will also be expanded to locations such as community centres or

malls in main street Ontario to reach more newcomers in their neighbourhoods.

Towns and cities will also be given funding to promote many parts of Ontario, big and small, on a new Ontario government Web site for immigrants. This is the

first agreement to also involve municipalities in planning and discussions on immigration. From AMO to the city of Toronto, this agreement demonstrates that all three levels of government can work

together on programs for immigrants in regions across Ontario.

Ontario's newcomers have incredible skills and an incredible drive to find jobs and raise their families. This agreement will allow Ontario to nominate

prospective immigrants who have the talents Ontario needs to stay competitive and grow our economy.

Ontario's newcomers and the front-line community-based settlement agencies have been waiting a long, long time for this agreement, and so have the government

of Ontario and the people of Ontario. This government is dedicated to helping Ontario's newcomers reach their full potential and build a better life for themselves and their families. This landmark

agreement will help Ontario's newcomers succeed. We know full well that when newcomers succeed, when they find a job, when they are welcomed into communities, all of Ontario succeeds. Again, I want

to say this is indeed a most positive, historic day for the province of Ontario and for all Ontarians.

RENEWABLE FUELS

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I'm pleased to rise in the House today to announce that the government was successful in

securing another 975 megawatts of clean, green renewable electricity for Ontario as a result of our second request for proposals for renewable energy. The response by the private sector was

tremendous. While we were seeking up to 1,000 megawatts of clean, green renewable power, we received proposals that were well over 2,000 megawatts.

I'm pleased to report to the House that we have now signed agreements for nine new energy projects. Eight of these are wind power projects and one is water

power, for a combined total capacity of 975 megawatts. To put this in perspective, 975 megawatts of clean, green, renewable power is enough electricity for over 250,000 homes. Together with the 395

megawatts achieved in our first request for proposals for renewable energy, these nine projects will have a combined capacity of 1,370 megawatts, exceeding our commitment to generate 1,350

megawatts of renewable energy.

With the leadership of this government, we are making Ontario a leader in wind power in Canada. With this announcement we are increasing Ontario's wind power

capacity 80-fold and more than doubling Canada's current wind power production. We will continue to bring more renewable energy on-line.

This additional renewable energy will move us further toward our 2010 goal of generating 2,700 megawatts of renewable energy. All these renewable projects will

have a tremendous benefit for Ontario's economy and Ontario's environment. The projects will spur economic development in the renewable energy sector and will bring an estimated $2 billion of new

investment to Ontario. If we include the economic benefits of our first RFP, these projects have a total estimated value of $2.7 billion.

Renewable energy projects help diversify our supply, reduce our transmission costs and reduce peak load demands. These projects will provide tax revenues to

municipalities, create jobs in rural communities and offer income to farmers and other landowners. These projects will help clean up our environment by reducing our dependency on fossil fuels and

will advance our Kyoto obligations. This is another major step forward for renewable power in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Responses?

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I want to speak today on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of immigrants living in Ontario who have come to

Canada, and specifically Ontario, under false expectations -- expectations that have been set by an immigration system that places priority on advanced education, professional training and career

experience. I speak on behalf of those immigrants because we have thousands of those people in our communities today who expected that they would be able to come here and make positive

contributions to their communities, and they are today seeking to make a living on behalf of their families. They cannot become integrated into their communities because we have a system that puts

up barriers to their becoming involved in their professions and getting jobs in this province today.

This announcement today carries a big number that surely will impress some, and it's going to give much-needed headlines to a federal government that is on the

eve of an election. With the multibillions of federal surplus, the question I have is, why has this minister signed an agreement that is going to take five years to phase in?

This announcement today is couched with waffle words that mean nothing to the fathers and mothers who are desperate for an opportunity to earn an income and to

work in their professions. Former governments tried to sign agreements and to get the federal government to the table. They were unable to do that. This government has tried for two years, and not

until the eve of a federal election did the Premier allow himself to be used by the federal government as a campaign tool to go into this next election.

Finally, Minister, you admitted in estimates that you would have no control over how these funds would be spent. You admitted in estimates that these funds

would not be controlled by the Ontario government, that they would be transferred directly to settlement agencies. I say to you, that is letting the people of Ontario and taxpayers down. You have

not done a good job in negotiating this agreement -- not at all -- on behalf of the people of this province.

RENEWABLE FUELS

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): John Tory and the opposition are completely in favour of renewable energy solutions. What Ontario citizens want,

however, is reliable, safe and affordable energy for the future.

Minister, your policies are a clear indication today that we are going to have short supply and higher prices. This troubles Ontario. Renewable is laudable,

but most of the experts would tell you, and I'm sure you know, that this is often referred to as an intermittent power source, not to form part of the base load. This is clearly no solution. One

third of the energy from wind is not available most of the time. The other part of the equation is, at what price?

You should know that our critic, John Yakabuski, is actually in Atikokan today. He's trying to settle Atikokan as well as the troubled communities where not

only the pulp and paper industries are worried about your policies.

Minister, this file that you have is clearly mismanaged under your leadership and under the prior Minister of Energy's as well. I can tell you with some

certainty that Ontario is indeed disappointed to this point in time, not just with the policy announcement today and the fact that it's too little, too late.

The ultimate question that remains in everyone's mind is, when will we see some of this new energy on the grid? This summer, we had enumerable blackouts, near

blackouts and brownouts. We've seen hundreds of jobs lost in the pulp and paper, forestry and petrochemical industries; in fact, our natural resource industry is struggling under the high prices of

this government.

Minister, when are you going to tell the people of Ontario the other part of this RFP process: energy at what price? The people of Ontario, indeed the

businesses of Ontario, are depending on your having an effective energy policy as we move forward. You know this policy is all about our economy, and you are putting it at great risk. I'm

disappointed in this announcement today.

IMMIGRANT SERVICES

Mr. Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): It's amazing what an upcoming federal election will do to bring about an agreement that for two years

the federal and provincial Liberals could not manage to get. It's what James Travers in the Toronto Star called an election piñata, full of goodies and promises in return for another Liberal

mandate.

Let's get to the real issue that is of importance to immigrants. Since 1980, the percentage of immigrants living below the poverty line has risen from 17% to

20%, while the trend for non-immigrants tracked down below 15%. Immigrants are less likely to be consistently employed, enjoy the benefits of belonging to a union or be well paid. In fact, more

than 35% of those who have lived here for less than five years earn low incomes.

Why does it take new immigrants today more than 10 years to catch up with their Canadian peers? Very simply, neither the federal nor the provincial government

has concrete plans to deal with immigrant poverty, revamp the settlement sector or allow professionals trained abroad to practise their professions in this country. In spite of the good intentions,

more money will not change the fact that there is no concrete plan to improve the lot of immigrants in this province. Even though the ministry has more money, the Ministry of Citizenship does not

have, in my view, the expertise or the leverage to provide foreign-trained professionals living in Ontario with accreditation and jobs.

In the 2003 campaign platform, McGuinty made the following promise: "We will require that all Ontario trades and professions accelerate the entry of qualified

new Canadians. If after one year any profession or trade has not eliminated barriers to entry, we will act."

Two years into the Liberal mandate, and only a few weeks ago, I questioned the Minister of Citizenship in estimates about his ministry's progress in the

different professional fields. By his answers, it was clear to me that very little progress has been made. With all due respect, the minister is just talking with different regulatory bodies, but

has gotten nowhere in terms of licensing foreign-trained professionals -- professional engineers, teachers, doctors or social workers. By his own admission, he said that he had little power over

licence-granting bodies.

When the Liberals promised action, immigrants were expecting more than discussion and talk; they wanted to practise their profession. You have some money now;

it will do some useful things. Let's see you come up with a real plan.

RENEWABLE FUELS

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To respond to the Minister of Energy: another day in the Legislature and another day where the

McGuinty government tries to pretend that an announcement makes up for the lack of an electricity policy. Here we have another dribble, another drab, but still no plan and no policy for the supply

of electricity or the price of electricity in Ontario. The McGuinty government wants to pretend that they are defenders of a public electricity system, but what we see now is private, profit-driven

nuclear at the Bruce, and private, profit-driven companies in all of the announcements today. What do we know that this does to the price of electricity? We know that wherever you find privately

owned, profit-driven electricity, it's at least 20% more expensive than publicly owned, not-for-profit electricity. So every day, as the McGuinty Liberal government makes these announcements, more

and more of our electricity system is passing into the hands of profit-driven private companies, and the price of electricity is being driven through the roof.

When I listen to the Minister of Energy make these announcements, it's as if she doesn't hear the pulp and paper mills across northern Ontario, which keep

saying to the McGuinty government, "It's the price. The price is too high. The price is driving us out of business. The price is causing the layoff of thousands of workers." It's as if the McGuinty

government didn't hear General Motors when earlier this year they said that their hydro bill at the Oshawa plant is 93% higher than it was two years ago. So what has GM announced today? The layoff

of over 3,000 workers.

Minister, you can make these announcements over and over again, but you're still missing the point. Your policy of driving electricity rates through the roof

is killing thousands of good-paying manufacturing jobs in Ontario -- the pulp industry, the steel industry and now the auto sector. These announcements -- a drib here, a drab there -- are no

excuse. They are no substitute for a real electricity policy in the province of Ontario.

GORDON SMITH

Hon. David Caplan (Minister of Public Infrastructure Renewal, Deputy Government House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I believe we

have unanimous consent for a member of each party to speak for up to five minutes to recognize the passing of former member of provincial Parliament Gordon Smith.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I want to say to the House that it is indeed an honour for me to stand here today and pay tribute to a

former member of this House, Gordon Elsworth Smith, who passed away earlier this year, in June, after contracting pneumonia at the age of 86.

Gord was born in November 1918, and that was the beginning of a life full of many, many accomplishments. As a young man, Gord became involved in a wide range

of ideas and topics that interested him. As his close friend and former CFRB radio personality Pete McGarvey has said, "Gord Smith was quite simply a giant in the 20th century life of Orillia. He

was a man of vision, passion and energy, blessed with huge talents in mechanics, electronics, music and the art of living, a man endowed with common sense and the common touch."

Gord actually started into radio at the age of 18 in Kitchener. In 1942 he started a Parry Sound radio station and, as far as I know, was the youngest person

to ever own a radio station up to that point. He moved that station to Orillia in 1945 and it became known as CFOR. It's now called JACK-FM; it's one of the Rogers stations. Gord actually operated

that station until 1964. After that, he operated a Volkswagon dealership in Orillia and had that dealership until 1971.

But to the city of Orillia's and the riding of Simcoe East's credit, Gord became an impressive member of the provincial Legislature. He ran in 1967. As a

strong community leader and an excellent constituency member, he easily won four elections as the member for Simcoe East. His Premiers at that time of course were the Honourable John Robarts and

the Honourable William Davis.

Gord retired as the MPP for Simcoe East in 1981, but soon after was appointed as a justice of the peace and served both the Orillia and Midland parts of the

riding.

I want to say a couple of things about Gord Smith while I'm here today on just what kind of constituency person he really was. I can remember that as a very

young guy we needed some severance work done on some land we owned and there were some problems with the township. My dad called Gord and asked him if there was any chance he could meet him some

time or write a letter or whatever needed doing, and Gord actually came to our house for breakfast on a Sunday morning and talked about the issue. I thought at that point, if that's the kind of

constituency person you've got in an MPP, that shows you what a great man he was.

I have to tell you very briefly that I also ran into Gord as a JP. He actually fined me $25 one time. I never had a proper hydro permit. I pled guilty and I

paid the $25, but I wanted to put that on the record. I don't want any skeletons in my closet.

He retired in 1995 as a JP at the age of 75 and he kept a very active lifestyle after that. He had a huge collection of antique cars, including a Stanley

Steamer, and was present in all of the fall fairs and parades etc. that we had in Orillia. He was an active member of the Kiwanis Golden K and the Champlain Golden K, and in music, where he played

piano in a band right up until his death. In fact, just last January, Sean Conway was the guest speaker at the Sir John A. Macdonald dinner, and Sean acknowledged Gord. Gord was playing the piano

that evening and Sean, who was the guest speaker, paid a very special tribute to Gord that evening.

I just want to say that he's missed already in the city of Orillia and in the community.

I want to introduce his family who are here today. They've come from great distances to be with us. I know Gord's wife, Jean, is no longer with us, but his

children are here today: Linda and her husband, Murray Finn, of Elliot Lake, and Paul is here as well, from Vancouver. He was a speechwriter with the Davis and Robarts governments for a couple of

years. John and Susan Smith of Hanover are here. John and Susan's children -- Martha, and her husband, Dan, and son, Andrew, and his friend Jessica -- and Susan's mother, Elma, of Orillia, all are

here in the audience today. They came a great distance to be part of this.

In closing, on behalf of our caucus and, I hope, on behalf of all members of this House, we thank the Smith family for being here and for allowing their father

to serve in this wonderful House for 14 years of his life. Thank you very much, everyone.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): I'm proud, on behalf of New Democrats here at Queen's Park, to be able to pay tribute to this truly great

Ontarian, this outstanding member of the provincial Legislature, this pioneer in radio broadcasting in the province of Ontario and in this country -- a man who, when he announced his retirement in

1981, said it was because of ill health, and that was at the age of 62. Well, for decades after that, Gord Smith continued to serve his community, continued to be a dear and loved member of his

family and continued to be very much on the leading edge, quite frankly, of anything and everything he did.

I was fortunate to be able to call upon people like Elizabeth Diehl, one of our staff people who goes back to when Gord Smith was here in this Legislature. My

predecessor Mel Swart fondly recalls his service, along with so many others in an era when politics was, in many respects, far more colourful, far more intimate and far more collegial.

I want to tell the Smith family that Gord Smith was held in regard by members of every political party and certainly by his own colleagues. I not only talked

to the people involved in the political scene but spoke as well -- and came across this person just by happenstance -- to someone who appeared in front of His Worship, Justice of the Peace Smith.

That was before I learned that Garfield Dunlop was a scofflaw of some notoriety up in his riding. The gentleman I spoke to and his version of the events is oh, so consistent with scofflaw Garfield

Dunlop -- "outlaw Dunlop," I suppose he might be known as from this point on. As a lawyer, I should have reminded him that you never confess, and here he's done it in Hansard. The recipient of His

Worship's justice whom I spoke with recalled that justice as being handed out in an extremely polite and courteous way, in a kind and temperate way, and tempered with good nature and a true concern

for the welfare of the community.

We all know about the Stanley Steamer, but perhaps more significant was the 1912 Tudhope steamer that Gord Smith himself restored, and of special significance

because Tudhope, as one of Canada's earliest automobile manufacturers, had its home in Orillia. Among the scores and scores of antique automobiles that he restored and maintained and that he shared

with his community in parade after parade and in public event after public event, it is this Tudhope that I'm sure had a special spot in Gord Smith's heart.

There's a Toronto Liberal politician -- I can't remember his name off the top of my head -- who doesn't let people forget that he brought the Rolling Stones to

Toronto. Let me tell you, that pales in comparison to bringing Bob Hope to Orillia in 1957 to flick the switch at Gord Smith's radio station when they doubled the wattage it put out. Think about

it, my friends: In 1957, Bob Hope was bigger than the Beatles, the Stones and Bob Dylan combined. Gord Smith, as a broadcaster, sensitive to the Canadiana around him and immersed in Canadian

culture, had the very earliest live broadcast of Canadian icon Gordon Lightfoot, himself yet another native son of Orillia.

So Gord Smith was truly somebody who deserves this eulogizing here at Queen's Park today. He served his community and his province with joy, with wit, with

kindness and with maturity. He was a Progressive Conservative, and he had the regard of his allies and his opponents. He served well beyond what could be expected. He also served in an era when

constituency budgets were non-existent. So we have to recall that his wife, your mother, played such an important role, as spouses did for MPPs in those days, answering the phone, doing

constituency work on their own behalf, and I'm sure his kids were involved with that on more than a few occasions as well. So I salute your mom. We all salute your dad, and we tell you that we're

proud to be in the place where he served with such dignity and served so many people for so long.

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I rise today to pay tribute to one of our own, Gordon Smith, who

was a member of this Legislature from 1967 to 1981. While I did not have the honour of knowing or serving with Mr. Smith personally, I do know that he was a credit to this House and to

politics.

I have to say that, reading about him, he was my kind of guy. He was the kind of man any of us would be privileged to know, a man of wide-ranging interests and

dedication. He was first elected for the Conservatives in the riding of Simcoe East in 1967 and was re-elected in 1971, 1975 and 1977. He served as the deputy whip, chair of caucus and deputy

chairman of the committee of the whole House. As a parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Industry and Tourism, he travelled on trade missions to China, Cuba, England, Japan and the Soviet

Union. When a heart condition forced him to retire from politics in 1981, Gordon Smith said, "The only thing closer to me than my riding is my family."

I'm told he was a man of many interests and enthusiasm. When he was 18, he began a career in radio in Kitchener and later became the youngest Canadian to own a

radio station. In 1942, he moved the radio station from Parry Sound to Orillia and operated there until 1964, when he sold it to Maclean Hunter. After that sale, many people would probably be

tempted to retire, but not Gordon Smith. He went on to operate a car dealership until 1971. Cars were one of his major passions. At one point, he owned about 50 antique cars and machines. His

favourite, as we've heard, was a 1911 Stanley Steamer.

After politics, he served as a justice of the peace in the provincial offences court. Even in his twilight years, he played piano for the Golden K seniors'

orchestra, the Music Makers. Pete McGarvey, the long-time program director for CFOR, said, "He was a man of vision, passion and energy, blessed with huge talents in mechanics, electronics, music

and the art of living, a man with common sense and the common touch."

Gordon Smith was married to his wife of almost 60 years, the former Jean Studiman. He had sons, Paul and John, and a daughter, Linda, and their spouses. He was

the grandfather of 12 and the great-grandfather of five. As his son John put it, "Whether it was radio, politics or working as a justice of the peace, he loved working with people."

I know the sympathies of the House go out to the Smith family. I want to thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: I'd like to thank the members for their remarks and assure the family of all of our condolences and sympathies. I will see that

the Hansard of these remarks is forwarded to the family.

ORAL QUESTIONS

LAYOFFS

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Premier, in responding to the unprecedented 3,660 job losses in

Ontario announced this morning by General Motors, you said that Ontarians can take "some consolation" in the losses, as Ontario can withstand the cuts. You also referred to it as "a little bit of

contraction."

Families in Oshawa and St. Catharines are staring at an uncertain future with the loss of significant numbers of paycheques for those communities, and

communities that are already dealing with literally thousands of layoffs announced in this sector this year alone will suffer more body blows. I'm not sure how much consolation they can take from

any of that, and I'm not sure they would describe this as "a little bit of contraction."

I'm not sure if that was your entire answer to these communities or to these people this morning, but I give you the opportunity to tell us what you're going

to do specifically in response to this devastating news from General Motors today.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this. It's a very important

issue, not just from a broader economic perspective but of course in a very immediate sense to those families that are affected by this.

My understanding is that GM's intention is to ensure that any ensuing layoffs are the result of attrition. There's no way for me to make any magical

commitments about how we might somehow bring an end to that process on the part of GM and those cuts.

There is some upside to this, and I'll speak to that in greater detail in the following questions, but I can say that while the plant here contributes 25% of

North American output, we are only going to be the subject of 10% of job reductions. That doesn't diminish it, and it was never my intention, I say to the leader of the official opposition, to

somehow minimize or diminish the importance of this issue to those families that are affected.

Mr. Tory: Premier, you were quoted in a November 9 story in the Toronto Star as acknowledging 40,000 job losses in manufacturing since you

took office. You've also said that Ontarians should expect some "painful" times ahead, to use your words. You made this statement as well: "It's our job as government to find a way to strengthen

people so they can find security, not so much in a job, but in employability."

Premier, what exactly does that mean for the 3,660 men and women who will lose their jobs in Oshawa and St. Catharines, as well as the 1,100 families affected

by Ford's cuts in Windsor and the 500 to 1,000 families that will see no paycheque as a result of the Chrysler cuts in Brampton, Etobicoke and Windsor? Specifically, what are you going to do for

this group of men and women, these thousands of people affected by these layoffs, to give these people, to use your words, "security in employability"? Specifically, what are you going to do?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Again, I think it's really important to keep these particular statistics in some perspective. The fact of the matter is

that since we first earned the privilege of serving Ontarians as their government, this Ontario economy, the hard-working people of Ontario and the entrepreneurs in particular have generated

214,000 net new jobs. I think that's very significant. We have lost some jobs in the manufacturing sector; there's no doubt about that. But I think it's important, as I say, to keep in mind the

overall picture.

Something else by way of helpful information, I think: In the month of February 2001, when the Conservatives were in power, 38,000 jobs were lost in that month

alone. That was the second-highest single job loss in a month ever in the history of our province. Again, I'm pleased that we have generated 214,000 new jobs, net, since the beginning of our

term.

Mr. Tory: I'm not sure exactly how the several thousand jobs that I've outlined qualifies as "some jobs" that have been lost. But

notwithstanding, Premier, in a Globe and Mail story on June 9 of this year, your Minister of Economic Development confirmed that General Motors could cut 4,000 jobs over the next nine years and

still receive $435 million in government funding. I want to quote from the story: "The federal and provincial governments signed the Beacon deal with GM Canada to ensure that job numbers in the

auto sector will be maintained."

General Motors already announced between 1,000 and 1,500 layoffs in the latest round of bargaining with the Canadian Auto Workers. Today, they announced that

3,660 jobs would be lost. It would seem that the 4,000 job-layoff maximum cited by your minister has been significantly exceeded already. What are you planning to do, in view of this, to protect

the interests of the Ontario taxpayers?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I am -- and I will make no apologies for this -- much more optimistic, much more bullish about our economy than is the

leader of the official opposition. Let's be specific here: On the auto sector alone, in our first two years-plus on the job, we have secured $4.5 billion worth of new investment. For the first time

since the invention of the car, we're the number one auto producer in North America. So I will not tolerate any notion that somehow we are backsliding when it comes to the auto sector in the

province of Ontario. We're at the highest point in our history when it comes to securing a strong economic advantage on the auto score.

I am also pleased to say that when it comes to the Beacon project, something that the Minister of Economic Development and Trade, Joe Cordiano, worked very

hard on, that is going full-steam ahead. That's a $2.5-billion investment project that's going to see 1,000 new jobs. In addition, GM announced an additional $400-million investment in the Oshawa

and St. Catharines plants just last week. In St. Catharines alone, that means 150 new jobs.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): I'm sure the people who are losing their jobs will take great comfort from all that.

My question is for the Premier. Yesterday I visited the West Albion Seventh-day Adventist Church, the scene of Friday's funeral shooting, the 48th gun death in

Toronto so far this year. I'm sure I speak for all members in conveying our sense of grief for the families, for the congregation of that church, for the community, for the black community and for

our city.

I saw the bullet holes in the church windows and the marks on the ground where the victim was gunned down, and it was easy to see that this whole thing had

reached a new and even more unacceptable stage. My question to the Premier is, what additional actions and measures do you propose to take, and what leadership do you intend to show in light of

this thing reaching a new and even more unacceptable stage? What are you going to do?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): Let me take this opportunity to express on behalf of not just our party,

not just our government, but indeed on behalf of all Ontarians our terrible concern connected with this endless string of tragedies affecting not only the lives of the young people involved and

their potential, but their families, their friends and their communities.

I know that our police are working as hard as they can on this to try to grapple with it. I just got off the phone with Chief Blair; I had another conversation

with him in that regard. I know that our courts are working as well. I just got off the phone with Chief Justice Lennox. What I've asked is that they meet with me. I've asked Chief Blair to come

in; I've asked Chief Justice Lennox or his designate. I've spoken with the Attorney General about this. I know that many of us are doing much, but I think there are other things we might do, and by

exploring that --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Tory: I'm happy to hear that these meetings are proposed to take place, because the people in these communities told me throughout the

summer, and told me again yesterday, that they're looking for leadership from their elected leaders, through their words, through meetings, but even more importantly, of course, through actions.

They need you, as the leader of this province, to speak up and speak out on these issues. I think they're looking for a greater sense of urgency from their governments, including the government of

Ontario.

The police and the people in these communities tell me -- they've told me over and over again, as recently as yesterday -- that they need more information from

more people who are willing to come forward in respect of these crimes. Back in October, your minister made a very general announcement about helping victims and witnesses, assigning staff and so

on. Can you tell us specifically what actions have been taken since that time a few weeks ago? What staff have been assigned, when and where? Can you tell us that?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: To the Attorney General.

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I'm assuming that the leader of the official opposition is speaking not only to the announcement with

respect to the expansion of the guns and gangs task force but also with respect to the witness protection program. I can tell you that the announcement on the expansion of the guns and gangs task

force, which took place approximately three weeks ago, saw 26 additional police officers and 32 additional crowns being added to the task force. As of today, 24 of those 32 crowns are at their

desks, at work on the guns and gangs task force, and we anticipate that by the end of the month the full complement will be in place. That is going to mean a very, very big difference, and amount

to an unprecedented effort in terms of law enforcement collaborating and working together like never before to deal with the horrible, horrible guns and --

The Speaker: Thank you. Final supplementary?

Mr. Tory: I'm sorry to say this, but that answer was just not responsive to what I asked about, which was the assistance being given, as you

said you would do, to people so they could come forward and feel comfort in coming forward and being protected. The answer is utterly unresponsive. It's so frustrating.

I'll direct this question to the Premier again, because this relates to a meeting he had. I think, with respect, we have to do better than this and we have to

not only raise this issue, but appear to raise it on your priority list. Person after person commented yesterday on the fact that people are not coming forward with information with respect to

these cases. One thing that representatives of the community recommended in a meeting they had with you was the creation of a neighbourhood intervention unit, a community intervention unit, a kind

of Crime Stoppers run by the community itself, so people could feel comfortable phoning their information in and knowing that it would be handled, not by the police or by somebody close to the

police, which they think Crime Stoppers is, but by people in the community.

In view of the need for help, in view of the need for people to come forward, can you tell us, are you willing to give this idea a try? What thought have you

given to it since those people were in your office telling you they thought this would help a great deal?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: Absolutely. We are moving forward on that, but I think it's important to know that we do have, right now, a tip line set up.

Crime Stoppers has a tip line set up. You can call in to that number and you do not have to provide identification; you can be anonymous. If you can provide a tip that leads to an illegal handgun

being taken off the street, then there are rewards for that.

I'm disappointed to say that when this proposal was put forward and when I and Chief Blair and Minister Kwinter helped launch this particular proposal for the

tips line, it met with nothing but criticism from the official opposition -- nothing but criticism. I say, let's work together on these initiatives that can make a difference and, as the leader of

the official opposition often says but never does, let's put politics aside and work together to try to make our streets safer.

The Speaker: New question. The leader of the third party.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Premier, on Friday at a west-end Toronto church where people had gathered to mourn the shooting death

of 17-year-old Jamal Hemmings, 18-year-old Amon Beckles was shot down.

Premier, in the name of Toronto's 17 murder victims so far this year, their families and all who live in fear, when is the McGuinty government going to address

Toronto's gun violence with the urgency it deserves?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The leader of the NDP will know that not only has our government been very active in this area, working hard to address

both the crime itself and the causes of the crime, but so has the federal government, I would argue, particularly in recent days. Our Toronto police are working actively; our courts are working as

hard as they can as well.

To remind the leader of the NDP of some of the progress that we have made with respect to attacking these issues, he will know about our guns and gangs task

force. He will know that we have in place 34 new judges, 50 new crown attorneys, 55 more probation officers. He will know that we are seeking tougher penalties in the Criminal Code. He will know

that we are the first jurisdiction in North America to enshrine mandatory gunshot wound reporting legislation. He will know that we brought in new tools for prosecutors; we're working hard to

improve the witness protection program; we're blitzing gun businesses, and we've launched a gun amnesty program, to list --

The Speaker: Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Hampton: Premier, in August, when you last addressed this issue, you said, "The overwhelming majority of residents in the community are

peace-loving, hospitable, warm, engaging people." Since your engagement at that time, 25 more young people have been shot down. Our streets, our neighbourhoods and our communities are losing young

people at an incredible rate to gun violence. Yes, you've made a lot of announcements, but when you talk to people out there in the community, they're very clear: None of it is effective. None of

it is stopping the gun violence. I ask you, Premier, when are you going to treat the issue of gun violence in Toronto with the urgency it deserves?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: In addition to those initiatives that I just listed, which I happen to believe are important and which I happen to believe

are making a positive difference, we've also funded pre-apprenticeship pilot projects for high-risk youth, we've helped fund a summer jobs program with the city of Toronto targeting youth from

high-risk neighbourhoods, and we're bringing in new legislation making it mandatory to continue to learn until the age of 18.

To repeat something I said earlier -- I know the leader of the NDP is going to want to be very supportive of this -- I know that the federal government has

been working hard on this issue, as has our government, as has our police, as has Mayor Miller, and the judges and the court system as a whole. But I think there might be a few things that we have

overlooked. Hence, I have asked representatives of those areas if they might not meet with me so that we might compare our initiatives and see what it is that we might better do together to address

this very pressing and very urgent issue.

Mr. Hampton: I've met with representatives from many of these neighbourhoods. I've met with a lot of youth from these communities. You know

what they say about your pilot projects? "Pilot projects are not the answer. What is needed are across-the-board strategies, not pilot projects that end after six months." You talk about youth

employment this summer. A couple of hundred young people employed this summer is not the answer when we're talking about thousands of young people who can't find a place in the real-world

economy.

This is what Sandra Carnegie-Douglas of the Coalition of African Canadian Organizations says: "This is devastating. Lives are being completely eliminated.

"We've made the point over and over about the rate at which our young men are dying, but the response from the government shows they are not taking it

seriously."

Premier, the time for photo ops is over. What is your action plan for the people who are being shot --

The Speaker: Premier?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Just so we're clear, when I met with the East Scarborough Boys and Girls Club, I did so without giving notice to the media.

When I met with Operation Springboard, I did so without giving notice to the media. When I met with the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, I did so without giving notice to the media. When I

met with the Jamaican Canadian Association, I think notice was given to the media, but not by me, and I did not speak to the media after that.

We have, in fact, been working very hard, in a very determined and very sincere fashion. This is a very, very urgent and pressing issue. We had yet another

horrific example, a shooting just outside a funeral service at a church. I don't think there's anybody left in the province of Ontario who has not been affected by this seemingly endless string of

shootings in some kind of a profound way. I think the next best step for us to take at this point in time, given the sincere efforts made by various levels of government, and in particular by our

police, is to bring the parties together and explore what it is we might better do by working together than we have been individually.

LAYOFFS

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): Premier, today General Motors has announced that it's cutting 3,600 jobs: It will eliminate a shift

at Ontario's car plant 1 and shut down car plant 2 entirely. To put this in perspective, General Motors is eliminating one out of every five GM jobs in Ontario. What is your government's plan to

address what is obviously a very serious loss for Ontario's economy and a most-serious-of-all loss to people who work in Oshawa and St. Catharines?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Let's put this in some perspective. The fact is, there are 30,000 job cuts

being announced across the entire continent, and at the end of the day, what GM has made clear is that these layoffs will be through attrition and early retirement. As a result, the impact on

individuals will be minimized to the greatest extent possible.

The reality is that GM has been facing an enormous challenge for months now as a result of the restructuring that's taking place in the auto sector worldwide.

We are not immune to that. We have, with the Beacon project, a $2.5-billion investment that GM is making in Ontario to make certain that Ontario is going to be at the forefront when it comes to

auto production on this continent.

Mr. Hampton: The minister talks about perspective. Let's put this in perspective. GM doesn't manufacture cars in Quebec or Nova Scotia or

Manitoba or Alberta; they manufacture them in Ontario, and all the job losses are happening in Ontario.

Let's put this in perspective. This is on top of 42,000 good-paying manufacturing jobs that have already been lost under the McGuinty government.

Let's put this in perspective. Every time you lose one of those auto assembly jobs, the multiplier says you lose seven more as it ripples through the economy.

That translates into 25,000 jobs.

I have asked you a very serious question on behalf of all those workers and those families who will have no idea now how they will pay the bills and what will

happen to them. What is the McGuinty government's plan for a loss of jobs in Ontario that is obviously very serious?

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: As I said, there are going to be losses or layoffs through attrition and early retirement. This does not impact the

individuals who have jobs and will continue to have jobs at GM.

Let's also recognize that the $2.5-billion investment is very important to Ontario's economy. It's going to give Ontario's economy a big boost, and $2.5

billion shouldn't be overlooked as a significant investment made in this province.

I would remind the member that when they were in government, during their entire term, they lost a total of 74,000 net jobs. There were 500,000 people out of

work. You were losing 1,500 people, in terms of jobs, a month. That's a record that you should not stand up and have any pride in.

Mr. Hampton: The McGuinty government, I swear, one of these days is going to go back to the Great Depression to try to find somebody to

blame.

Look, here's the reality, Minister. Some 4,000 people --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Stop the clock.

Leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: Here's the reality: Close to 4,000 people are going to be out of work. And don't tell us that this is all going to be by

attrition. You are not going to reduce 4,000 jobs in Oshawa by simply saying, "Here, you take retirement." This means people are going to be laid off.

But there's something else happening here. You were quick to trumpet contributing $235 million of Ontario's money to General Motors. Here's the reality for

those workers today: General Motors has $235 million of Ontario's money. What about the 4,000 jobs, Minister?

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: I would like to know what the leader of the third party is suggesting -- that somehow we not have made that investment and

given up on the $2.5-billion investment?

Furthermore, I would add that with respect to the $235-million investment that this province is making, those dollars will only be paid out after the

investments are made. That hasn't happened yet; no dollars have been paid out.

I would add that when the NDP was in government, in February 1991, 50,000 jobs were lost in that month alone.

What are we doing? We are creating a positive, growing economy with an unemployment rate of 6.4% and 214,000 new jobs. That's my answer to the member. New jobs

are being created. This economy is moving forward.

VIOLENT CRIME

Mr. John Tory (Leader of the Opposition): My question is for the Premier. Premier, I'd like to come back to the issue of crime. You've

indicated, in your answers earlier on today -- and I should say, by the way, that I've had a long list of meetings without the media as well. What's helpful about those is that people speak to you

very candidly in terms of the things they think need to be done in the community to help with this problem. I'm delighted as well to hear that you have the community leaders coming in again --

that's a good thing -- but you had them in earlier this year and they told you specifically something that I asked you about and you referred to the Attorney General earlier on. They told you

something that would be very important: to set up this community intervention unit, which would help people to feel comfortable coming forward and sharing with their own community members

information that will help track down a lot of these crimes that haven't been solved.

Since they had that meeting with you, probably another dozen have lost their lives in these crimes. I'm asking you this: Will you stand up today, based on the

last meeting they had with you, and say you're willing to give this idea a try? Because that's what they told you they thought would be helpful to get the police on top of this.

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): It may very well have been that that idea was raised at a particular

meeting. I cannot recollect it. Minister Chambers, who was with me, cannot recall that being raised either, but I don't think that's really the issue here. This is yet another idea. It could very

well be a very good idea, and we're prepared to consider that and any others. But the purpose of bringing together the stakeholders and the leaders in the justice system is to explore those and

other possibilities so that we can do a better job collectively of addressing this terrible issue.

Mr. Tory: One of the things that people said yesterday, and they've said it all summer, is the incredible frustration they feel at the fact

that governments don't appear to work together and that people don't appear to put politics aside, to use the expression that was used earlier. I wonder, in an effort to make these meetings more

consider, in the meetings that he's convening, inviting a representative of both of the opposition parties and, at the same time, perhaps having someone from the other levels of government, namely

all perhaps even decide together to do something about this problem that is starting to overcome our city. Will you consider that?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I have a different kind of meeting in mind, so I'm not prepared to endorse that particular proposal -- certainly not at

this time. I have a different kind of meeting in mind. It is very specific and very focused and it's action oriented. It has to do with what it is we can and should be doing together when it comes

to maximizing the enforcement of the law. That's what I'm talking about right now. We've got some great ideas that we've initiated, more that we have yet to announce with respect to attacking the

causes of crime, but right now we want to attack crime harder and faster. So the purpose of bringing in a representative of the judges, a representative of the police and a representative of the

crown attorney is to find out what we can do together to attack crime faster and harder. That's the purpose of this meeting. It is very specific and it is action oriented.

ELECTRONIC HEALTH INFORMATION

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): I have a question to the Minister of Health. Minister, hospitals and doctors alike are frustrated by your

government's e-health initiative. The chief information officer at William Osler says that many hospitals are now pursuing their own technology agenda because of a lack of a clear plan from the

government and a breakdown in communications with Smart Systems. She says that there has been a lot of staff hired for the project but no deliverables, and it's very discouraging to see money going

into this hole with no results. There's been little transparency and accountability, negative responses to freedom of information requests, and an overall sense that it's "largely a mystery" as to

where the money has been spent.

Minister, how has this project become such a mess?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I'm the first to acknowledge that we can and will do better with Smart Systems

for Health, but I do find that it's very easy, it seems, for people in health care, like the person that you've quoted, to make a swath of comments that are truly negative but without regard for

reality.

Just as one example, a long-awaited project that Smart Systems for Health has been involved in helping to implement which is coming to life in Ontario hospital

emergency rooms today and on other days across the breadth of our province gives emergency room physicians the capacity of checking Ontario drug benefit records to determine what drug use is there.

This is an important part of helping to deal with medication-use errors, particularly related to our seniors.

This is a project that Smart Systems for Health has delivered over the course of the last few months. We will be moving forward soon with significant

alterations to the governance strategy as it relates to Smart Systems for Health, but there is a long list of deliverables that they have delivered on, demonstrating good value, but with more work

to be done.

Ms. Martel: To put it in perspective, the project is a year behind schedule, some $260 million has already been spent, and there's still no

electronic patient record in hospitals, emergency rooms or clinics. From my perspective, this project makes Andersen/Accenture look good.

The prevailing view about the project, and the minister knows this, is that there has been little accountability, little transparency, little direction from

your government, a whole lot of staff being hired, and a whole lot of money being spent with very little having been produced.

Minister, in light of the significant amount of money that has been spent so far with very little being produced, are you prepared to refer the matter to the

Auditor General so he can get to the bottom of it and try and sort out what should happen next?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I have no position on the issue of the involvement of the Auditor General. Suffice it to say, the Auditor General enjoys

sufficient powers that, if this is an area that they wish to be involved in, that poses no challenge and we'll be very supportive.

I just want to say that, while acknowledging there's more that can be done and acknowledging that we're moving forward with governance changes at Smart

Systems, I think it's important that we not get too sucked into the use of a blanket statement, wiping out the value of projects that have gone on there.

One other additional example: the integrated public health information system. A key finding related to our SARS challenge was the inability through good

systems to track what was going on in terms of cases. We've been working hard, and Smart Systems has been the lead in developing the integrated public health software, which is in the midst of

being installed in public health units across the province of Ontario; one more example of good investment which is offering good protection for Ontarians.

STUDENT SAFETY

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): My question is to the Minister of Education. As a former teacher, a parent and now as a

representative of the people of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh, I am acutely aware of the importance our school system plays in the lives of our youth. The skills and lessons they learn within

these educational institutions are ones that will serve them later in life when the care of this province falls to them.

It is a sad fact of today's reality, however, that some of the experiences our students are exposed to are negative. Certainly among the worst of these harmful

experiences is bullying. Victims are forced to live in a state of fear that can affect their self-confidence and the way they integrate with their peers and family. The bullies, if not taught that

their actions are intolerable in our society, come to believe that intimidation and violence are acceptable.

Minister, you recently announced that it will be mandatory for all schools in Ontario to have an anti-bullying program, for which I commend you. Can you tell

us how this will benefit our students?

Hon. Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): I appreciate the question from the member opposite, who I know, having toured schools with him,

is very well aware of this insidious part of human nature, some people would say. What we are saying with our cross-provincial initiative is that it's an unacceptable part of human nature. What

students who are affected by bullying can expect is the commitment of this government to stamp out bullying, to make it a certainty that the victims will get help, that perpetrators will know that

it is not acceptable and they'll be confronted in terms of where it takes place.

I also want to speak to the rest of us. Whether it's the students who are standing by in school or the rest of us who feel we're not affected, it is, simply

put, an attitude that has to change. Six times out of 10, a bystander can intervene and end the bullying within 10 seconds, but too often they don't. In 20% of the cases, there are students aiding

the bullying. That is something that we are going to put an end to with effective anti-bullying programs in every single school across the province.

Mr. Brownell: The repercussions of bullying are severe, they are real and they must be addressed. It gives me great pride to be part of a

government that is doing so in a manner that is both effective and sensitive to the concerns of the youth involved. No matter how many programs we create, however, the opportunities for bullying

persist. With the Internet, phones and time spent away from school, it is unfortunately true that, even if curbed, forms of bullying will continue. As such, it is vital to provide assistance and

support to those youth who are victimized by bullying and to let them know that they are not alone.

Minister, could you tell us what actions this government is taking to ensure that victimized youth have access to the support services they need?

Hon. Mr. Kennedy: I want to first say that there's a tremendous amount of effort being made by principals, by school staff and by certain

community agencies to try and bring help. What we're trying to do is make sure that that is there for every student who is victimized.

For example, we have a program at Kids Help Phone that will make telephone and e-mail counselling available to every single student who is affected, so that no

longer will they be in isolation, because that is the second victimization, where people feel afraid to report to their parents and to others whom we really would appreciate they would trust. But

under certain circumstances, if we could turn our minds to it, I think we can understand it doesn't happen. This counselling service will help them to do that. We also will train safe school action

teams, including other students, but with teachers and principals in every school across the province.

And this will not happen overnight. This is the beginning, the start of a very concerted effort to change the attitude, so that the very idea that somehow you

have to feel bad for having this perpetuated against you will end. I invite --

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

GRIDLOCK

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): My question is to the Premier. Premier, I was both surprised and disappointed when I heard last Thursday that you

attended a Liberal fundraiser in Hamilton. Now, there's nothing unusual about a Liberal fundraiser in Hamilton. What is unusual is that you went there by plane. You flew from Toronto to Hamilton, a

distance of less than 70 kilometres.

There are tens of thousands of people, including myself, who commute each day to work and deal with gridlock. They don't have the luxury of flying to where

their next meeting is, or, in your case, where their next dinner party is. You may be thinking it's OK to catch a jet to Hamilton, but clearly the evidence is that you just don't get it.

Premier, are you willing to get your head out of the clouds and work toward gridlock solutions that ordinary Canadians and Ontarians can understand? I call on

you to recount and to show leadership on --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): The question has been asked. Premier?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar (Minister of Transportation): Let me first correct the member. The plane was chartered by the Liberal Party and paid

for by the Liberal Party.

Let me address the most important question, which is the congestion. I know the member was at a press conference this morning with the Toronto Board of Trade

and the other area board of trade members. We do realize that we need to address the issue of congestion. Our government is absolutely committed to doing that. We made that very clear in our

budget; we made that very clear in our throne speech. We know that we need to come up with a seamless, integrated travel system in this province, and we are going to move ahead with that.

Mr. O'Toole: My supplementary is also to the Premier. The idea that you flipped the response to the Minister of Transportation clearly

demonstrates that you don't get the seriousness of this issue, and indeed the lack of leadership on this issue. The issue here is the issue of gridlock. You're trying to trivialize this by saying

that there's one rule for the Premier and another rule for the peons of Ontario.

Interjections.

The Speaker: I need to be able to hear the member for Durham. This is entertaining, but not very useful.

The member for Durham.

Mr. O'Toole: Under this government, we have sky-high taxes, we have sky-high energy costs, and now we have sky-high solutions to gridlock,

especially when you consider the economics and the importance of gridlock to the economy of Ontario. I can tell you that this morning there was a press conference held by the Toronto Board of

Trade, and it was attended by all of the GTA chambers of commerce and boards of trade. They were all calling on your government to have a solution to the problem of gridlock. Premier, are you

listening to the issue here? And your shenanigans using the airplane to get to Hamilton, Premier --

The Speaker: The question has been asked.

Hon. Mr. Takhar: Let's just look at the track record first. In this morning's press conference, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce representative

said this: "We have been asking governments for five to six years to address the problem of gridlock." We have been in power for only two years, so for four years they have been asking the other

government to do something about it and they didn't do anything about it.

Let me tell you what we did. We are making a record investment of $900 million in transit and $1.2 billion in our highways. We are moving ahead with our fare

card structure. Those are the right steps to take to address some of the congestion problems in this province. I also want to assure the member that we will move ahead with the Greater Toronto

Transportation Authority as well.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): My question is to the health minister. The Coalition of Ontario Physicians in Emergency is filing a formal

complaint with Ontario's Ombudsman regarding the failure of your government to provide timely access to emergency care. They'll use four recent examples: where two patients died, one after going

home without being seen, the other while waiting for a surgery bed in a teaching hospital; two others who suffered heart attacks and survived, one now on life support, and the other who suffered

much greater damage as a result of the wait.

Minister, the coalition says that these patients suffered needlessly and even died because the wait in emergency was too long. Where is your plan to ensure

timely access to care in emergency?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I did note those stories, of course. I think it's important in our province,

where we have things like coroners who are in the position to help to determine the effects of these things, that those conclusions be the ones that we rely upon. Obviously, a long-standing problem

that we've had in the province of Ontario, going back over decades, really, has been the challenge of being able, at all times, to meet our own expectations in terms of timely care in hospital

emergency rooms. Previous governments have poured hundreds of millions of dollars directly into that solution and it did not go away.

Accordingly, I think the answer is to be found in a comprehensive range of activities. We've undertaken the most significant one, which is to address the flow

of people to hospital emergency rooms in the very first place, so as to leave our acute care hospitals in a situation where their burden, if you will, is limited to the provision of care for those

who can only receive care in an acute care environment. Our unprecedented level of investment in community care is the most significant of these things, and by way of supplementary, I'll look

forward to the opportunity to expand upon those initiatives we've undertaken.

Ms. Martel: It's clear, Minister, that neither patients nor doctors are seeing improvements as a result of whatever you've done. Let me quote

Dr. Brockway, a spokesman for the coalition, who said the following to the media: "These visible tragedies are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to showing how we are failing in our mandate

to provide the emergency care Ontarians deserve." That's what he said about four recent complaints that are now going to be filed with the Ombudsman.

There are 5.2 million Ontarians who access hospital emergency departments every year, but your wait-time strategy doesn't focus on the chaos in emergency at

all. Many people who come to emergency are seriously ill, and they need timely care. The four cases the coalition plans to raise are proof of that. Minister, patients and doctors have seen no

changes in timely care in emergency. When will this become a priority for your government?

Hon. George Smitherman: A couple of points are very, very important here. Firstly, the honourable member, as she's wont to do, has leapt to

the conclusion that words offered are a pronouncement that must be accepted with blind faith. All I would say to the honourable member is I don't believe that there's an investigation of the

circumstances related to those individual cases that warrants the conclusion that has been drawn and advanced by her.

Secondly, I'm not sure if I'm right on this, because I'm going from memory, but I believe Dr. Brockway may be a physician at Credit Valley Hospital. Credit

Valley Hospital is an example of a hospital where, notwithstanding the tremendous growth going on in the neighbourhood, the emergency room visits have stagnated, which is unprecedented in an area

of growth. This reflects, I believe, some progress on the investments that we've been making at the community level, to provide care to people in environments other than hospital rooms.

The third point is this: Orphan patients in Ontario have done the DNA test, and they have found that the roots of that look an awful lot like that party and

that party.

PRIMARY HEALTH CARE

Ms. Deborah Matthews (London North Centre): My question is for the Minister of Health. I read in the paper on the weekend about a report from

the Ontario Medical Association. It raised a problem that we know well; that is, the issue of the doctor shortage in Ontario. I was surprised at this report because I know our government has been

very proactive and has taken many steps to reverse the trend we saw develop under the two previous governments. As just one recent example, last Thursday our government announced that we're

expanding the number of family medicine training positions by 70%. One of the recipients of our government's investment is Western's Schulich School of Medicine and Dentistry in my riding of London

North Centre. It will receive $1 million in capital funding to expand those spots for family doctors.

Minister, can you tell me more about the effect of this increase on my constituents and across the province?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The first thing that needs to be said is the most essential point, which is

that we're in a situation in our province where in two years as a government we've been able to create enough interest again in comprehensive family practice that there's more demand on family

residency spots. Accordingly, our government is moving forward an increase by next year of 141 new family residency spots. That means an additional 337 family physicians in our province by 2008, a

70% increase. That's good news for communities all around our province.

At Western, 25 new positions will be created by 2006, which means that by 2008 we will have created 63 more family doctors ready to serve Ontario patients. The

important part for Western and for all the other medical schools that are participating is that we know that wherever doctors are given the opportunity to study and do clinical placement, they're

much more likely to serve there. Accordingly, our distributed method is very likely good news for communities all across Ontario and most particularly, in this case, London.

Ms. Matthews: This kind of tangible commitment to family medicine is long-awaited news. I know this will have an effect on the supply of

doctors for my constituents and across the province.

I know that our government is moving forward with urgency to increase access to primary care. It's widely recognized that the NDP created the problem when they

reduced medical school spaces in 1993, and the Tory government sat on their hands for five years before they did anything about it. I know the Tory government made lots of promises about increasing

access, but they were just promises. They didn't deliver on them.

I'd like you, please, to outline for me our government's plan to increase primary care access for those who have gone without this care for far too long.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: One thing that's very important --

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: If I could just ask you two to hold off for a second. Thanks.

One thing that I think is important --

Interjection

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Sandra, please. That's something I might do.

I think it's important to note that one of the architects of that report, Dr. Josh Tepper, is now the assistant deputy minister of health human resources in

our ministry. He will bring additional strategy and energy to initiatives that are already undertaken: increasing undergraduate spaces by 15%, more than doubling the opportunities for international

medical graduates, a new deal with the Ontario Medical Association that puts a lot of money into important areas related to family practice, 69 new family health teams coming to life in Ontario, 39

new community health centres and satellites, in addition to the $21-million investment and 10 satellites last year.

The point is that all these things taken together are good news for patients in Ontario, who, as orphans, know two daddies, and accordingly will begin to see

the McGuinty government --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): My question is for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. As you're well aware, the General Motors

plants in Oshawa are second to none. Whether it's productivity or quality, J. D. Power and Associates listed Oshawa as number one in North America and the world. I know you know that, Minister,

because you were there. One of the key problems, aside from operational costs, whether it's electricity or costs to transport goods, is equal market share access.

Minister, you just returned from a foreign trade mission. What are you doing in Ontario to protect Ontario's goods? They're not allowed to be sold in other

countries, yet those countries are allowed to sell their goods in our country.

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): I want to thank the member for his praise of the GM deal when it was

announced. I think he would still agree with me that this was a very important investment made on the part of GM in Ontario.

I would suggest to the member that the matters he's referring to obviously deal with federal jurisdiction with respect to agreements that are made with other

countries. I have recently expressed my concern with respect to a free trade agreement that is being contemplated with South Korea by the federal government, focused on what impacts there might be

on the auto sector with regard to free trade agreements. I would say to the member that the federal government is fully apprised of that position.

Mr. Ouellette: Minister, it has to be a little bit more than just expressing your concerns. This is one of the key components in the province

of Ontario. Without the auto sector, which is the largest employer, we may face some significant impacts as well. I know very well that you're working very hard. South Korea is one of the key

areas. What exactly are you doing besides expressing your concern? Have you had any correspondence? What have you come forward with to protect Ontario's interests and Ontario workers?

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: Again, I would suggest to the member that in my discussions with the federal trade minister, we've had discussions about

this. As well, I have corresponded with my counterpart federally to express Ontario's position, laying out fully the fact that we want to make certain that any agreements that are being signed with

any other country ensure that we're not adversely affected or impacted when it comes to the auto sector.

CASINO TAXATION

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): My question is to the Acting Premier. You'll know that in 1996 the Harris government, without

consultation, imposed a 20% win tax on gross revenues from Casino Rama. This is money that should have rightfully gone to First Nations to assist those communities to do what is necessary to

function. We figure that, including the interest, the win tax has stripped away almost $1 billion and climbing from First Nations as we speak. Your government made a commitment to create a new

relationship with First Nations in this province, yet you've maintained the win tax and you're tying up First Nations in a process that will end up pushing them into court. I'm asking you today in

this House, will you do the right thing and return the money that rightfully belongs to First Nations that has been stripped away by the win tax to First Nations, which need the money?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): To the Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): In my role as minister for aboriginal affairs,

I would like to say to the member, as the member knows, that this government six months ago appointed former Premier David Peterson to be a negotiator in this particular area. As you know, it's a

very contentious area and we thought he would have the experience in this. He's been working on this with the First Nations communities and organizations that are involved in this and he's making

very good progress.

Mr. Bisson: I'm not sure what's contentious. What's contentious is that money has been taken away from First Nations and they could have used

that money to do things in their communities that are necessary. Communities like Marten Falls, Pikangikum and others that need services in their communities are not able to do so because they

don't have the money. So I don't know what's contentious.

You can do the right thing. You can say today in this House that you're prepared to say to First Nations across this province that you'll return almost $1

billion plus court costs to First Nations so they can do what's right. I ask you the question: Will you drop this and will you give the money that's rightfully owed to the First Nations

directly?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: We have perfect confidence that former Premier David Peterson is the right person to carry out these discussions and

negotiations with Ontario First Nations when it comes to these revenues, and we expect a report from him shortly.

ONTARIO TRILLIUM FOUNDATION

Mr. Bill Mauro (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): My question is for the Minister of Culture. At the beginning of the month, seven remarkable Ontario

not-for-profit organizations, one of which was in my community of Thunder Bay, were honoured for the difference they've made in their communities thanks to the grants they received from the Ontario

Trillium Foundation. What can you tell us about the awards that were presented at the Great Grants Awards 2005?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur (Minister of Culture, minister responsible for francophone affairs): The Ontario Trillium Foundation receives annually

$100 million of government funding, generated through Ontario's charity casino initiative.

The Ontario Trillium Foundation Great Grants Awards recognize the true leadership of community organizations. The grants remove barriers to employment and

education, help Ontarians to be healthy, and improve the prospects of Ontarians of all backgrounds. The results of these grants greatly exceed our government's financial investment. These

organizations contribute to our quality of life.

Four awards were presented to grantees in the foundation community program who demonstrated significant impact in four funding sectors. To be considered for

any of these awards, eligibility was limited to foundation grant recipients who have completed at least one full year of their grant and whose grant was approved in or after 2002. All of the

nominated grants demonstrate --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Mauro: Thank you, Minister. One of the integral components of the grant process, as we all know, are the grant review teams that exist in

all of our communities. One of the people in Thunder Bay I'd like to acknowledge is Lorne Allard. Lorne is a long-standing community volunteer, a former city councillor I had the privilege of

serving with on city council, and now a member of the grant review team there. These people do tremendous work on a voluntary basis.

I'm also pleased to repeat that the winner in the sports and recreation category is Thunder Bay's Lakehead Canoe Club. Please tell us what distinguished the

Lakehead Canoe Club from the other finalists.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I wanted to congratulate this organization. Dragon boat racing is one of the fastest-growing water sports in the

world today. Since acquiring four dragon boats in January 2004, Thunder Bay's Lakehead Canoe Club has seen a dramatic increase in participation from local and regional youth and adults. The dragon

boat races attracted an impressive 3,300 regional paddlers, and they were cheered on by more than 27,000 spectators. The club makes its dragon boats available to other communities in an effort to

build a strong northwestern Ontario competitive force at the national level.

In 2003, the club received $75,000 over one year from the Ontario Trillium Foundation to purchase the necessary equipment for racing and to enhance

fundraising. So I wanted to congratulate the --

The Speaker: Thank you.

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

Mr. Ted Chudleigh (Halton): I have a question for the Minister of Economic Development and Trade. In your first budget about a year and a half

ago, you brought in the largest tax increase in Ontario's history. You must know that you cannot do that without serious economic repercussions down the road.

Tax policy and implementation have lag times of a year and a half to two years. Mr. Minister, that time has arrived and you are now seeing the harvest of the

tax increases your government sowed. Ontario manufacturers need relief from your tax increases if they are to survive. Will you provide Ontario manufacturers with the relief they so desperately

need?

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Let me remind the member that since this government has been in office, the

Ontario economy has created 214,000 net new jobs. The unemployment rate was at 6.4% in October. That's the lowest rate since 2001 and below the national average of 6.6%.

Let me just say about our manufacturers that in fact they have been facing certain challenges with respect to the economic situation. A lot of what they're

facing is a higher dollar that has resulted in exports becoming more expensive when they're shipped, for example, to our largest trading partner, the United States.

What is impressive about what has happened is that our manufacturers have increased their productivity rates by 5.1%. Under your government, the productivity

rate --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary.

Mr. Chudleigh: We were talking about the lag time here, Minister, and that creates those kinds of economic problems, something that your

government is doing nothing about.

I've just sent you a list of some 8,000 jobs: plants from Thunder Bay to Cornwall, Prescott, Windsor, Burlington, Elmira; plants all over Ontario that are

closing or laying off jobs for the first time in their history, such as Sleeman Breweries. They've never had a layoff before, but they're laying them off now.

Minister, the manufacturing sector, the sector in this province that creates long-time jobs, that creates jobs in the service sector, has lost 42,000 jobs in

the last year. Your sector, economic development and trade, is in serious trouble. What are you going to do? What plan do you have to create an opportunity for these companies to survive? What are

you going to do? Can you blame the Conservative government for that? Can you blame the feds for that? Can you blame the Americans for that? Can you blame the exchange rate for that? Who are you

going to blame? And while you're blaming those people, these companies are going out of business.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: We have no reason to apologize for these bright economic numbers: 214,000 net new jobs created by the Ontario economy. In

fact, Canadian manufacturing productivity increased by 5.2%, just to correct myself. Shipments in 2004 totalled $310 billion, up 54% from 1995 -- dramatic increases. Ontario's manufacturing

employment is second overall in North America, behind only California.

Yes, the manufacturing sector has experienced some challenges, but they're working through those challenges, as evidenced by the fact that there is an increase

in investment in machinery and equipment by about 9.1% this year, which means that our manufacturing sector is becoming more productive. That will lead to more exports and that will lead eventually

to a greater number of jobs, even in the manufacturing sector.

VISITOR

Mr. Peter Fonseca (Mississauga East): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: In the east members' gallery we have the Portuguese consul to Toronto,

the newly arrived Dr. Maria Paiva.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Welcome. That, of course, is not a point of order.

PETITIONS

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario signed by a great number of my constituents.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature as I agree with the petition.

PROSTATE CANCER

Mr. Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest): I have a petition addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas Bill Mauro, MPP for Thunder Bay-Atikokan, introduced a private member's bill, Bill 4, that amends the Health Insurance Act and seeks to make the

prostate specific antigen (PSA) test an insured service under OHIP; and

"Whereas the PSA test is one of the means used to screen for possible prostate cancer, the most commonly diagnosed cancer in Canadian men;

"Whereas the PSA test is used as an indicator of the likelihood a man has prostate cancer and can be very helpful in guiding men in deciding whether to

continue with further testing; and

"Whereas PSA testing in Ontario is only covered if recommended by a doctor and done in a hospital setting, otherwise costing Ontario men approximately $25, a

fee which could be a deterrent to the underprivileged;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To support Bill Mauro's private member's bill, Bill 4, which makes PSA testing an insured service under the Ontario health insurance plan."

I agree with this petition, affix my signature to it and give it to page Andrew.

CORMORANTS

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas cormorant populations in the Great Lakes basin have increased to over 450,000 birds over the past several years, are continuing to grow and are

significantly depleting fish populations; and

"Whereas numerous scientific studies have clearly shown the serious negative impact on fish stocks and freshwater habitats; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Natural Resources continues to study the impact of cormorants and possible management strategies; and

"Whereas the Ministry of Natural Resources has committed to experimental control of cormorants at specific sites;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the government of Ontario and the Ministry of Natural Resources to immediately begin

to significanyly reduce cormorant populations in areas where they are having a demonstrably negative impact on local fisheries through managed culls."

I affix my signature in support.

GAMMA FOUNDRIES

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I would like the Minister of the Environment to take particular note of this petition to the Parliament of

Ontario. It's presented by Geoffrey and Dorothy Long of Cascade Circle in Richmond Hill and is signed by hundreds of their neighbours. It reads as follows:

"Whereas all residents in the town of Richmond Hill have the right to enjoy their homes, property, neighbourhood and to breathe clean air; and

"Whereas Gamma Foundries, a division of Victaulic Co. of Canada Ltd., is clearly the identifiable and documented source of noxious fumes and odours in the

Newkirk Road area of Richmond Hill; and

"Whereas Gamma Foundries has persistently failed to respond to the legitimate concerns of the community regarding these odours and emissions; and

"Whereas Gamma Foundries has refused to initiate engineering solutions to these issues as identified in a report by Earth Tech and as ordered by the Ministry

of the Environment; and

"Whereas the Ministry of the Environment has specifically directed Gamma Foundries to initiate engineered controls to address the adverse effects of these

pollutants;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario and the Minister of the Environment to take all measures possible to enforce the provincial officer's

order ... and to ensure that residents are afforded the right to enjoy their property and neighbourhood as is their right under law."

I affix my signature to this petition.

SERVICES FOR THE

DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I have a petition with respect to persons with intellectual disabilities and those who work with them in the

province of Ontario.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I have signed it as well.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I'm pleased to sign this and present it to Nathan to present to the table.

CELL PHONES

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, which reads as follows:

"Whereas the safe operation of a motor vehicle requires the driver's undivided attention; and

"Whereas research has shown that the operation of devices such as cell phones detracts from a driver's ability to respond and concentrate on the task at hand;

and

"Whereas approximately 40 jurisdictions around the world have already passed legislation to restrict the use of cell phones while driving;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned" -- a very long list here as well -- "respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario ... that the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario enact legislation to curtail the use of" cell phones "as proposed in the private member's legislation introduced by" MPP "John O'Toole...."

I'm pleased to support this legislation as a good piece, and I think members will all support it.

PUBLIC LIBRARIES

Mr. Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Minister of Culture recently announced that there would be funding cuts totalling more than $1.2 million from Ontario public library services;

and

"Whereas over 69 million people visited public libraries in Ontario in 2003, with more than 100 million items circulating; and

"Whereas these cuts will impact you as a library user, resulting in delays in how often your library receives new books;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Minister of Culture restore the cuts to funding for Ontario public library services so that our library can continue to promote literacy in our

community."

I signed that petition, and I want to thank the Collingwood Public Library for sending it to me.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mrs. Julia Munro (York North): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

As I am in agreement, I will sign this petition.

Mr. Jerry J. Ouellette (Oshawa): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by" others; "and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my name in support.

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and it reads as follows:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I've affixed my signature as well.

Mr. Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): I have a petition that was presented to me by Mr. Don Wilkinson of Community Living York South. It contains some

184 signatures. It reads as follows:

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I'm pleased to affix my signature in support of this request.

STUDENT SAFETY

Mr. Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Ajax): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly.

"Whereas the Ministry of Education has failed to ensure that students are protected from individuals whose past behaviours have directly harmed children;

and

"Whereas the Ministry of Education has chosen to ignore the children's aid society's recommendation that certain individuals not work with children; and

"Whereas the introduction of a `volunteer' into the school system must not be solely at the discretion of the principal; and

"Whereas the Liberal government promised to ensure that school boards provide strong local accountability and decision-making;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly to amend the Education Act to place restrictions on the eligibility of persons who act as volunteers in

schools, and to include as a formal requirement that volunteers be subject to the approval of the school board and parent council."

I've signed the petition.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The member for Durham.

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): Thank you very much --

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Excuse me. The Chair changes its mind. The member for Oxford.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): The petition I have here, signed by a great number of my constituents, is similar to others that have been read,

and obviously that's because it's such a great concern for the people in my community. The petition is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas, without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are

deprived of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature, Mr. Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): The time for petitions has expired.

ROYAL ASSENT /

SANCTION ROYALE

The Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bruce Crozier): I beg to inform the House that in the name of Her Majesty the Queen, His Honour the Lieutenant

Governor has been pleased to assent to a certain bill in his office.

The Deputy Clerk (Ms. Deborah Deller): The following is the title of the bill to which His Honour did assent:

Bill 169,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act and to amend and repeal various other statutes in respect of transport