Social Services Committee

2012-05-09

Newfoundland and Labrador — Committees

May 9,

The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the House of

Assembly.

CHAIR (Littlejohn): Good morning ladies and

gentlemen, if we could get started.

Thank you.

I would like to welcome everybody here this morning to

the Social Services Committee and I would like to welcome the Department of

Child, Youth and Family Services.

Good morning everyone. My name is Glenn Littlejohn. I

am the MHA for the Port de Grave District and I am the Chair of the Social

Services Committee for Estimates.

Just some general comments before we get started this

morning. When you are speaking please state your name and wait for the red light

to come on because it is being recorded by Hansard.

Minister, I will provide you the opportunity, in a

little bit, to have an opening remark if you wish to have it. Then we will

follow the standard procedure, Andrew, Gerry, as we have been doing for the last

few meetings, fifteen, ten, ten, as we go.

Could I ask that we move the minutes of the Department

of Justice of May 1?

Could I have a mover, please?

MR. LITTLE: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Little.

Could I have a seconder?

MR. CRUMMELL: Seconded.

CHAIR: Seconded by Mr. Crummell.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Could we call the first heading, please?

CLERK (Ms Murphy): 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Heading 1.1.01.

Good morning everybody.

Could the Committee members please introduce

themselves?

MR. A. PARSONS: Good morning. Andrew Parsons, MHA,

Burgeo La Poile.

MS BUCKLE: Joy Buckle, Researcher.

MS ROGERS: Gerry Rogers, MHA, St. John's Centre.

MS WILLIAMS: Susan Williams, Researcher.

MR. LITTLE: Glen Little, MHA, Bonavista South.

MR. CRUMMELL: Dan Crummell, MHA, St. John's West.

MR. CORNECT: Tony Cornect, MHA, District of Port

au Port.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Minister, if you would have your staff introduce

yourselves and then we will go to opening remarks.

MS JOHNSON: Okay. Charlene Johnson, Minister of

Child, Youth and Family Services.

MS MACDONALD: Sheree MacDonald, Deputy Minister of

Child, Youth and Family Services.

MS MOORE: Julie Moore, Assistant Deputy Minister,

Corporate Services, Child, Youth and Family Services.

MR. GRANDY: Paul Grandy, Financial Comptroller,

Child, Youth and Family Services.

MS LUNDRIGAN: Wanda Lundrigan, Assistant Deputy

Minister, Service Delivery and Regional Operations.

MS COMPANION: Lori Anne Companion, Assistant

Deputy Minister, Policy and Programs, Child, Youth and Family Services.

MS HUNT: Michelle Hunt, Director of

Communications, Child, Youth and Family Services.

MR. MOORES: Wayne Moores, Manager of Budgeting,

Child, Youth and Family Services.

MS MANDVILLE: Stephanie Mandville, Director of

Human Resources.

MS MAIDMENT: Donna Maidment, Executive Assistant,

Child, Youth and Family Services.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Minister, it is all yours.

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

Good morning everybody. I would like to point out in

our opening remarks that we have not had a full department for a full year. As

you know, we transitioned the Regional Health Authorities four stages. Western

has been in for a full year because they came in last March 28. We had Central

in for part of the year from July; Eastern came in, in two parts in October,

November; and then we had Labrador transfer in, in March of this year.

You will see what we have tried to do is, in the past

our department would put all of the money into Grants and Subsidies and send it

out to the Regional Health Authorities. Now that we have them in, and this is

the start of a first year, we have made a best attempt at breaking out that

Grants and Subsidies money and putting it into Purchased Services, putting it

into Professional Services, breaking out the salaries and all of that.

So, bear in mind that as we go forward this will

likely change next year. We have to refine it as we go. We still had bills

coming in mid-April. We are still getting a feel for everything that was out

there in the Regional Health Authorities. That would be the biggest thing that I

would explain.

Other than that, we are really pleased to announce

more rounding of our organizational structure; in terms of staff, twenty-nine

new positions. Of course, our 10-Year Child Care Strategy is something that we

are very pleased to have there, and the continuum of care strategy for foster

families.

There is a lot more in it, but I guess we can get to

the details and the estimates. It is probably best, because we have Status of

Women after this as well. I do not know if you can give me a signal when you are

ending so I can have those staff, rather than make them wait a couple of hours.

If you can give me kind of a ten, fifteen minute notice so we can get them here.

Okay. So we will get right to it, if that is fine.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to first thank the minister and the

members of the department for being here and giving us this opportunity to ask

questions.

The first question, I just want to know how many

permanent employees in the department?

MS JOHNSON: Seven hundred permanent and about 100

temporary.

MR. A. PARSONS: Minister, of these employees, how

many are in your office?

MS JOHNSON: Well, in the office on Elizabeth

Avenue, the provincial headquarters office, there is probably about eighty,

ninety there.

MR. A. PARSONS: How many of these would be under

Program Development and Planning?

MS JOHNSON: Does that include front-line services

as well?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Oh, I am sorry. Do you mean how

many of the ninety are in programming?

MR. A. PARSONS: No, total.

MS JOHNSON: How many? All of them are in

programming. It is all of them, all but ninety. So it would be about 610 or

600, if we are going to round it.

MR. A. PARSONS: Are you able to tell me what you

plan to spend this year in the department on your permanent employees, what are

the salaries?

MS JOHNSON: Are we what? Sorry.

MR. A. PARSONS: Would you be able to tell me what

the salaries are for this year?

MS JOHNSON: The overall salaries, I would have to

add up every line.

MR. A. PARSONS: This is that list that we

badgering about in the House that was not included this year. The minister did

not include it.

MS JOHNSON: It is $44 million for salaries.

MR. A. PARSONS: That is for all of the employees,

permanent and temporary?

MS JOHNSON: No, that would just be permanent.

MR. A. PARSONS: Permanent.

How about temporary?

MS JOHNSON: Just give us a minute here.

MR. A. PARSONS: No problem.

MS JOHNSON: While she is looking, if you want to

go on to the next question.

MR. A. PARSONS: Sure.

I am going to move under the Minister's Office,

1.1.01, under Transportation and Communications, line 03, only $20,000 of the

$50,000 budgeted was spent last year. Why wasn't the rest spent?

MS JOHNSON: Of course, the costs vary from year to

year, particularly in my transportation. I have been in this department for a

year-and-one-half and the first time I had out-of-Province travel was last week

and it was to Halifax. It just depends on where the FPT meetings are and things

like that. It was less last year, but you never know what might come this year.

There is $18 million for temporary salaries. I was

just handed a note.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: My travel was really just within the

Province last year for the transitions; we focused on that.

MR. A. PARSONS: I see the same amount is budgeted,

so there is nothing out of the ordinary right now planned, but, like you say, it

is hard to gauge.

MS JOHNSON: Some of the meetings that we are aware

of for this year for FPT there is one potentially in Manitoba. So you have to

budget that every year because it could be on the West Coast, our FPT for

Atlantic ministers I am sorry, that would be Status of Women; that is here in

St. John's. It just varies year to year where the meetings are.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I am just moving down now to 1.2.01, Executive

Support.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: There is an increase between what

was spent last year and what is budgeted this year. Are there new positions

being added? This is under Salaries.

MS JOHNSON: Under Salaries?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS JOHNSON: There is an increase this year from

what was budgeted last year, yes. We hired an additional Clerk Typist III and

that would also include some of the step increases to the staff in that

division.

MR. A. PARSONS: In the same

section but line 03,

Transportation and Communications, this budget was actually overspent last year.

What apprised this overage?

MS JOHNSON: A lot of travel with the regional

health authorities transitioning in and a lot of on-the-ground work that had to

be done. It is a little more than anticipated. This year we have increased it

again because we have two additional positions. We now have the ADM of Service

Delivery and we have an administrative assistant.

The plan is to continue with the travel. They are new

in our department and it is really getting out there doing the hands-on piece of

work, making them understand how government works, and doing the drill down.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Would it be fair to say under line 04, Supplies, it

would be the same logic applied to the overage there?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, that would be again due to their

RHAs coming in, and more supplies for the two staff I mentioned again.

MR. A. PARSONS: I guess it would be fair to make a

general comment here that going into this year, the first year we have everybody

under your wing. You will get a better idea next year when you get into the

MS JOHNSON: Absolutely, these numbers will change

around no doubt for next year. We also have Labrador now, so you have more

supplies it is more expensive in Labrador. The travel would be more expensive

to Labrador. You have to keep that in mind as well.

MR. A. PARSONS: Under the Purchased Services

aspect, line 06, can you give me an idea of what constituted the overage under

Purchased Services? It was $15,300 budgeted and $40,300 spent.

MS JOHNSON: Oh, I am sorry. I am on the wrong

line.

Yes, that was due to, again, all of the transitional

meetings happening. There was an increase in printing, meeting rooms, conference

calls, and that sort of thing.

MR. A. PARSONS: Under your Professional Services,

line 05, where does your $15,000 go?

MS JOHNSON: That is why you fooled me up. You are

going backwards.

MR. A. PARSONS: I skipped lines.

MS JOHNSON: Eight thousand dollars of it went to

Vivid Communications, and that was for promotion of our department, the fact

that we are now a line department, and talking about what CYFS does. The other

$7,000 could you quickly find that?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: I do not have the breakdown of who it

went to, the other $7,000. It just says other consultants.

OFFICIAL: That would have been the child care

consultant

MS JOHNSON: Part of it was the child care

consultants Bob Crocker.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Two questions arising out of that. So there are

basically two different fees there on your $15,000: one was your Vivid

Communications and one was Mr. Crocker. Are these the same ones you anticipate

paying this year under the $15,000?

MS JOHNSON: No, we would anticipate whatever might

come up in terms of the Child Care Strategy. One of the things we anticipate we

would like to do is with the operating grants we announced in our Child Care

Strategy. We modelled up in-house different models of child care centres. Some

might have forty-eight spaces, some might have sixty, and some might have a

combination of part-time and full-time. I would like to hire an outside

expertise to have a look at our model and make sure we are on the right track

before we go saying what the operating grant would be. Part of it would come out

of that. It is not a big piece of work.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I am going to move on to 1.2.02, Corporate Services

and I am going to start under line 01, Salaries. I understand with the

transition, this might explain some of it. Last year there was just under $4

million budgeted, but $2.4 million spent. This year you are budgeting $4.4

million.

Can you please explain the changes there? What

comprised that?

MS JOHNSON: For the revised budget in 2011-2012

and not spending the full $4 million, only spending $2.4 million that was really

due to delays in filling positions. I have the positions here. I can list them

for you: financial officer, Management Analyst I, Clerk IV, manager of clients'

financial services, administrative officer, Clerk Typist III, program and policy

development specialist, quality assurance, we had three auditors, senior policy

and planning research analyst, and a statistician. All of those were delayed in

hiring.

Then the increase in this year, we have additional

funds there for two social worker positions in our training unit. Because we are

still doing the transition, Health and Community Services transitioned in

$456,000, once we figured out whose share belonged to each department. So, we

are not sure where they will fall into salaries.

We call it "fitting the dress", once you are in a

particular area and you figure out for your configuration of one social worker,

twenty cases, one supervisor, and one social worker assistant, and one clerical

for that team approach. So we kind of left that open to give us the flexibility,

because we are just looking at Labrador now and finishing up Eastern. That would

be more salaries, $456,000 in those salaries, but we are not sure what positions

they will be yet.

MR. A. PARSONS: Those two new social workers you

just mentioned, where will they be based?

MS JOHNSON: The training unit is in Stephenville.

MR. A. PARSONS: Stephenville.

I am going to move down to line 03, Transportation and

Communications.

CHAIR: 1.2.02, line 03?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes, that is correct.

The same question there, Minister, last year there was

a fair bit more spent than was budgeted. Can you go through the overage with me?

MS JOHNSON: Again, this was due to the increased

travel with the transitional meetings. Also, some of the costs at provincial

office were higher than expected. Communication, phone, postage, and courier

services for provincial office, they were higher than expected.

MR. A. PARSONS: It looks like you are anticipating

there is an extra, just say $80,000 or so budgeted for this year. What are you

anticipating that would cost more this year?

MS JOHNSON: Again, that will be increased travel

to the regions, and with all of the staff at provincial office, the

communication, postage, and so on. Really, it is just a reflection of the

historical data of the money that we have spent last year. We have $201,000 of

that will be for travel, $20,000 for postage and courier, and $60,000 for

communications.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am just going to move down to

line 05, Professional Services. What were you anticipating spending in last

year's budget that was not spent?

MS JOHNSON: What we did was we transferred

$147,200 to Program Development and Planning. You will see that in the next

section, that it was transferred there. Of the $31,000 that was left, we spent

that on staff training.

MR. A. PARSONS: This staff training, I guess that

is outside. If it is professional services you go outside for training?

MS JOHNSON: That was contracted with the College

of the North Atlantic. You will see that $147,000 on the next section. Again, it

is just about moving money around with our experience.

CHAIR: Are you leaving 1.2.02?

MR. A. PARSONS: I have a couple small points on

that section, if I might clue up that way?

CHAIR: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Under Purchased Services, can you

give me an idea of the difference between what was spent last year? There is a

decrease this year, what will you not need to purchase?

MS JOHNSON: The increase last year was for

additional costs for the lease at Pippy Place. That staff are now down with us

on Elizabeth Avenue. We purchased the building on Elizabeth Avenue, so we no

longer have a least cost now which is part of the reduction for this year,

$65,300 for the lease accommodations. That came out from this year.

We had moving costs last year of $30,000, so that is

gone. Last year we provided $30,000 for a child welfare conference here. That is

gone for this year, but we have added in $38,000 from Program Development and

Planning which you will see on the other page. That is, again, to better reflect

how the budget should look.

MR. A. PARSONS: My final question on Corporate

Services, under the property

section there is a fair bit more spent than was

budgeted. Would that be for the new office, I presume?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, it was.

MR. A. PARSONS: In terms of equipment, I hate to

get very specific, but are we talking computers, are we talking new couches?

MS JOHNSON: The whole office had to be furnished.

It was stripped down to the studs and had to be redone.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Thank you, Andrew.

Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

I am very happy to be here this morning. I know you

have had a huge challenge ahead of you creating this new department. The work

that is covered under this department can be so complex, so very important, and

so very challenging. I congratulate you for your work and thank you for giving

us this opportunity to meet with you this morning.

I have a few questions about programming as well and

some of the challenges that you might face aside from some of the line items,

but we can go through some of the line items here now.

In 1.2.03 Program Development and Planning, we see an

increase here in Salaries.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, that is the continuum of care

strategy we announced. We will have three temporary program consultants and one

project manager working on that piece. We have two temporary employees created:

a Clerk II and a program consultant in intervention services.

MS ROGERS: Minister, can you tell me a little bit

more about the continuum of care and where you see that going this year?

MS JOHNSON: This is going to be a lengthy answer.

MS ROGERS: That is okay.

MS JOHNSON: Well, the continuum of care strategy

is completely revamping the way the current system operates. We will be

introducing a level system.

Level I would be equivalent to the child welfare

allowance homes that we have now where children are placed with a significant

other family member. We will be calling them kinship homes under the new system.

Really, that is where we want to focus most of our efforts because research

shows that the children are better off with a family member, significant other,

or a very close friend.

Level II will be pretty much what you see for the

majority of our foster homes today.

Level III would be what we will call a specialized or

therapeutic foster home. These would be children with additional needs, more

difficult behaviours.

Then a Level IV home would be our staffed living

arrangements that we have now. Our group homes, all the work that we do through

Waypoints, and the ALAs. The whole focus of this strategy is to eliminate ALAs.

We have proposed to do that over two years.

Foster families will receive compensation based on

their skill level. There will be a lot of training involved. The majority of

foster homes will see an increase in the money they receive. Nobody will see

less. There are some that are already getting the maximum every which way.

The other big change would be we are going to go to

block funding. We have not announced all of the details of this yet, so I am

giving you the generalities. We plan to announce it all. The Canadian Foster

Families Association is being hosted here in St. John's May 22 to June 3 this

year. We provided $55,000 for that as well.

Around the block funding, I talked to a lot of foster

parents and the Foster Families Association. It is real difficult when you are

interested in becoming a foster parent or you currently are one, and when you

call up you wonder what the compensation is. The answer is: Well, it really

depends on the child and the needs of the child. It leads to having to label a

child to get money.

What we are proposing is to eliminate that and have a

block fund. Let the foster parents do what it is we are asking them to do. We

trust them to care for our children. Here is a block fund. Go do what you would

do with your own child. Those are the major changes, really, in a nutshell.

Is there anything else to add?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible) mention the increased

training.

MS JOHNSON: I did mention the increased training,

yes.

MS ROGERS: The block funding would be a certain

amount of money without assessing the specific needs of a child, unless there is

the specialized (inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: If there are special circumstances,

yes, that is assessed on a one-on-one. We are talking recreation kids are

involved in swimming or sport transportation, or respite. We know what the

general respite rates and how often you have respite. We are just talking about

lumping those everyday and every-month costs that we have an average of into one

block fund.

MS ROGERS: For instance, a foster family can

choose not to use money for respite and use it for recreation?

MS JOHNSON: Absolutely, or you can choose to not

have respite. We certainly encourage the respite, but if you do not want one

month to do respite then that is money you might put away for a trip or

something. It is letting them do what we do as parents.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Is there a funding differentiation between the kinship

homes and the foster homes?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, there is. We are proposing under

this strategy to increase the amount of money to the kinship homes. We have not

released the details as to how much yet, but that will come out very soon. We

currently have 400 kinship homes, CWA homes, and they get on average about $380

a month, plus the Child Welfare Allowance.

A foster family with a child will get well, it

varies based on the age for a zero to two-year-old to get $915 a month. For

twelve years old and up, you get $915. I think if it is from two years old to

five years old, it is $715; six years old to twelve years old, it is $815; and

then twelve years old and up, it is $915 again. Correct me if I am wrong. So

there is a difference.

MS ROGERS: Why the difference?

MS JOHNSON: That is just the way it has been

historically done, and that is why we are saying it should change. If that is

where we want our focus to be, to have as many of these people with families,

and the costs are no different, then

MS ROGERS: So are you looking at doing the funding

for kinship homes on the same level as the foster homes?

MS JOHNSON: Well, that will be announced in June,

what the specifics will be.

MS ROGERS: What about money and resources to help

keep children in a home before they get to the point of having to be removed? We

see the stressors, the economic stressors, and what that can do to a family.

MS JOHNSON: We already do that. We have 7,200

children on our caseload sorry, 835 of them are in our care, so the other

6,400 are still with their parents and we are working with those children while

still in the home. They may need a parenting course; they may need a drug and

addictions course. It depends on the family and what the issues are.

With the parenting course, we provide money to various

groups to do that help me with the name, it beings with C

OFFICIAL: Choices for Youth.

MS JOHNSON: Choices for Youth. They do parenting

courses and that sort of thing.

The drug and additions and other mental health type

assistance, they have to use the same system that everybody else uses in the

health care system. We do not get special skipping the line treatment or

anything like that. They have to line up like everybody else.

MS ROGERS: What about respite for natural

families, is that available?

MS JOHNSON: Do you want to speak to it

(inaudible).

MS LUNDRIGAN: It would not be considered respite

in the way that we would provide respite for foster parents to take weekends

away or to have the children moved to another family for a weekend just to give

them some alone time, but we have put services in place in the home to assist a

mom who might be having difficulty coping rather than remove children.

That could be to assist with homemaking type services, cooking,

child care overall. We would also provide services in

terms of assistance for a mom to retrain or go back to some kind of educational

program. We have, certainly, some specialized daycare for some of our high-risk

children.

MS ROGERS: No specific assistance, like recreation

or respite that a kinship home or a foster home might get.

MS LUNDRIGAN: No, you are right.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: I guess though, Wanda, it would be

fair to say that you might have seen some of these cases in the different

regions because the different regions were all operating well, it was not

consistent. So, we are looking for consistency now and we are looking to improve

that and have the same level of service throughout the Province. That is one of

the areas we are focusing on improving.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Thank you very much.

CHAIR: Gerry, this would be a clue-up question for

this, please.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

To be able to eliminate to the ALAs in two years, can

you tell me how many children are presently in ALAs?

MS JOHNSON: The number changes. Today I think it

is thirty-nine, but they might have more of an update for me now.

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: Yes, it is still thirty-nine.

MS ROGERS: Can we have a list certainly not of

names or anything like that, but perhaps comparing in the past few years, the

number of kids living in ALAs.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

I can tell you last year it was the highest ever with

about seventy-two. We have really put a real focus there is a weekly meeting

that is held in the office. We are really trying to get that number down. I do

not have it right here in front of me, but remember the number 211 came in and

250 went out. So, fortunately, we are getting more out into the foster homes and

that is why we are down to thirty-nine. That could change Friday. There are some

weekends we get a family of four on a Friday evening, so your number goes to

forty-three.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MS JOHNSON: With this thirty-nine, that is in

twenty-three ALAs because a lot of these are sibling groups and the sibling

groups are much harder to place than singles. The average amount of time in an

ALA is about four months.

MS ROGERS: About four months?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you.

I just wanted to move on in the line to 1.2.04,

Administrative Support. This looks like something new. There was no budget year

and this year there is $560,000 appropriated. What is that for?

MS JOHNSON: Again, last year this just would have

been under Grants and Subsidies to the Labrador-Grenfell Regional Health

Authority. This $560,000 is to purchase two mini homes in Hopedale and Nain.

This is really a recruitment strategy to try and get social workers to go to

these remote communities. We provide the housing.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

If you take that position, you guys have

accommodations available.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Where are you in the purchase

process? Have you guys started that?

MS JOHNSON: It has not gone out yet.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just sort of off the topic for a

second, you mentioned while I was asking some questions earlier, you guys

purchased an office, your new office?

MS JOHNSON: Government, in Transportation and

Works.

MR. A. PARSONS: What was the street address? Is

that the one where you are now, 95 Elizabeth?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, 95 Elizabeth.

MR. A. PARSONS: What was the cost on that?

MS JOHNSON: I honestly do not know. Transportation

and Works purchased it.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: I was just happy to go into a building

with all of my staff, because I was in Natural Resources with seven or eight and

then Pippy Place had the other so it is so great.

MR. A. PARSONS: So this houses everybody now?

MS JOHNSON: This houses all of the provincial

headquarters, and it is great for doing work.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am going to move on to 2.1.01,

Regional Services.

MS JOHNSON: I think Minister Hedderson's is

tonight, so you can ask him.

MR. A. PARSONS: I will put that on Eddie Joyce's

list of questions.

MS JOHNSON: I will give him the heads up.

CHAIR: I am not sure if that would be order,

because it is Newfoundland and Labrador Housing tonight.

MS JOHNSON: Oh, is it Housing? Sorry.

MR. A. PARSONS: Tom knows all those figures off

the top of his head anyway.

CHAIR: We will see if he will answer it.

MR. A. PARSONS: Subhead 2.1.01, again I guess the

discrepancy here the first question, from what was budgeted last year to what

was revised, what you spent, about $5 million, give or take, how is that

comprised?

MS JOHNSON: This is again due to the transition of

Eastern and Labrador staff coming in. It is just about not knowing, really, what

the costs were until you get them in.

MR. A. PARSONS: Now this year we have a much

bigger expenditure for Salaries. This $55 million, how many of your employees

within your department do this pay for?

MS JOHNSON: That would be everybody except for the

programs so the 600 or so.

MR. A. PARSONS: The 610.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, 610. Also, though, in that line,

the $55 million, that includes $2.2 million for the budget announcement of those

twenty-nine staff, the new twenty-nine staff, that is in there as well, and also

the money for the social work students that we announced this year is in there

as well. We plan to hire about seventy social worker student co-ops. They never

got paid before.

MR. A. PARSONS: Good.

MS JOHNSON: Good recruitment piece.

MR. A. PARSONS: This is a lot of numbers we are

throwing out here. So, you have twenty-nine new staff that you are hiring, that

was announced?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Would you guys be able to provide

me with a list of the positions have they been classified?

MS JOHNSON: Again, we are still trying to work out

that piece as to who needs what, but the majority of them are social workers,

front-line social workers and supervisors, and there would be a few clerical and

a few social worker assistants in there, but more than half are certainly social

workers.

MR. A. PARSONS: Is it your goal to have all these

positions filled in this year?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

How many of these social workers are student

placements?

MS JOHNSON: Seventy.

MR. A. PARSONS: Seventy?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Excellent.

MS JOHNSON: That is not including summer students,

because we hire summer student social workers. These are actually for your work

term that you have to do for your degree, so they are going to be paid. Summer

students are paid anyway, but we never did pay the social work students.

MR. A. PARSONS: That is a good development.

MS JOHNSON: Being a previous co-op student, I know

the value of getting paid for your work as a student. I mean, we work them; they

do great work. A lot of them are third and forth year so then the hope is that

we keep them.

MR. A. PARSONS: Do not work them too hard so that

they do not come back.

MS JOHNSON: I do not know our department has some

of the toughest social work.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am just going to move down to

your Transportation and Communications budget which has roughly doubled in size.

What is the plan there for this extra expenditure?

CHAIR: Subhead 2.1.01.03.

MS JOHNSON: Again, we transferred $1 million from

Grants and Subsidies to really reflect the transportation costs. There is a lot

of travel, particularly for the regional services and with everybody new coming

in there is still a lot of training, a lot of orientation and stuff going on.

There is also $76,000 in this piece for the completion of the regional

operational model. So it is moving around money. You will see a lot less in

Grants and Subsidies.

MR. A. PARSONS: Under line 05, Professional

Services, there was an extra $50,000 spent. What did this cover off?

MS JOHNSON: This was for the Family Child Care

Initiative that we announced last year, so that would have been spent on that.

That was actually specifically for the on-line course. We put a lot of training

on-line. We partnered with AECENL, Association of Early Childhood Educators

Newfoundland and Labrador, so this is a course that is there for people who

provide regulated family child care. Things like play-based learning activities,

the Canada Food Guide and safety in the home, all those sorts of things.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I am just going to move down to the Allowances and

Assistance.

MS JOHNSON: This is where it gets real tricky.

MR. A. PARSONS: This being my first Estimates,

maybe you can give me an overview on I guess while we are at it because

sometimes I have trouble differentiating between Allowances and Assistance and

Grants and Subsidies, if you could give me an overview on what that makes up,

how it is spent and the difference in numbers there because one went up

significantly, one went down, maybe there is a transfer of funds involved there.

MS JOHNSON: In a nutshell, the Allowance and

Assistance, that would be the money that goes to a client,

whereas the Grants

and Subsidies would go to a service provider. So, a foster family for client pay

would be under Allowance and Assistance, but a grant to Choices for Youth would

be under Grants and Subsidies. Is that fair, Paul?

Again, this is realigning our money as to where it

is our best guess at the time. I am just checking to see if there is any new

money in it. Yes, under Allowance and Assistance, most of it is just reprofiling

your money in that big heading before, but part of it is new money.

Under Allowance and Assistance there is new money of

$200,000. That is for home support increase to the staff that provides that

service. Under Grants and Subsides, the new money there in this year's budget

so of the $55 million, some of the new money is $2.1 million; $1 million for

Transportation and Communications no, that is not new, is it?

OFFICIAL: No, that was a reduction.

MS JOHNSON: That was a reduction.

There was an additional $3 million for program growth.

We know, historically year over year, that number of kids that are coming into

our care is generally increasing and the cost to provide services to those kids

is increasing as well, so there is $3 million there strictly for program growth.

There is $600,000 for the home support worker salary increase of twenty-five

cents; this is the same as the one in health. There is an increase of $240,000

for salary increases to the Open Custody Group Homes; $270,000 no, that was

moved out, sorry. So those would be the new money in that heading.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just looking at these two headings

again, if I could make a couple points, and you can correct me. Looking at what

was budgeted last year and what was spent, it looks like there was more money

going directly to participants and less money going to providers or groups.

MS JOHNSON: Not necessarily, because the money

still might have went to the providers and groups in that Grants heading.

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: Yes, that is what I am talking about.

The grant was the Regional Health Authority, what went to the Regional Health

Authority, so I do not know how they spent their money. They did not break it

out. They obviously spent it the same way we do but they do not itemize it the

same way we do. I would not say it was less money, I think it is just

realignment, really.

MR. A. PARSONS: When I look at the Grants and

Subsidies, there is $40 million less spent last year and then there is a $50

million drop to this year. Explain that to me so I can

MS JOHNSON: Because that Grants and Subsidies

still included the grants and subsidies that went out to Labrador and Eastern,

and part of it still for Central. It is in a bulk, block funding.

MS MOORE: Just to explain. What we have done is

taken that big block of money, if you look down that was in Grants last year,

$145 million. Now we have tried to disperse that amongst the line items for next

year to properly reflect how they are going to be spent. It is split between

Salaries. See the huge increase in Salaries

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS MOORE: - as well as to Allowances and

Assistance, and Grants and Subsidies. We have tried to more properly reflect

government's accounting process, properly distribute it. Hopefully, next year it

will be closer to where we should be in the out years.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just very quickly, if I may clue

up, Mr. Chair.

On the federal revenue part, line 01, it looks like we

are budgeted to get from the federal government just over $13 million. Last year

we only received $3 million. What happened there?

MS JOHNSON: I am going to try. I think what

happened was this is the INAC money. Labrador was not transitioned in. That

other $10 million, $9 million-or-so still would have gone to Labrador Grenfell

and the $3 million, a partial amount of it would have came to us already. It is

because they were not transitioned in with us.

MR. A. PARSONS: It is not that we lost money, it

is just

MS JOHNSON: Government received the same amount of

money, it is just Labrador Regional Grenfell got $9 million and we got $3

million.

MR. A. PARSONS: What you are basically telling me

is we have to come back here next year and we will have a much better idea on

how this goes.

MS JOHNSON: Absolutely.

MR. A. PARSONS: All right.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Thank you, Andrew.

Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Yes. I think it is great that social

work students will be paid. I remember being a social work student. All of the

engineer students were being paid and did not have to pay full tuition when they

were doing their co-op year, the same with business students. Social work

students and nurses all paid full tuition, worked like dogs, never got paid, had

to pay their own accommodations and travels if they were outside of the city.

Bravo for that. I think that is a wonderful step forward, particularly when you

look at the number of women who are involved in that.

If you are going to be funding seventy social work

student placements, does that include all of the social workers from the School

of Social Work, or will there be challenges for other groups and organizations

to be able to take the social workers if they do not have the money to pay them?

MS JOHNSON: No, that is over two semesters. So it

would be thirty-five per semester.

MS ROGERS: Okay. So there will be other students

who will not be paid if other organizations do not have the money to pay them.

MS JOHNSON: That depends on the organization.

MS ROGERS: Okay. So, it is not a position of the

department.

MS JOHNSON: This is for government social worker

students.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: While you are happy, they are a lot

happier than you are according to some (inaudible).

MS ROGERS: I can see some challenges with that as

well, in terms of if it is not equal or across the board.

MS JOHNSON: It is the same thing when I did

engineering, if you did a work term with government you were definitely going to

get paid different than if you did a work term with ExxonMobil.

MS ROGERS: Right.

MS JOHNSON: That is the nature of

CHAIR: - the beast.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Yes. Except I think in social work

where there is not a tradition at all of being paid, so it will be interesting

to see how this plays out. I think there will be some challenges, particularly

for some community groups or providers

MS JOHNSON: There are community groups who pay

their social workers, though.

MS ROGERS: Students?

MS JOHNSON: Oh, yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great. Anyway, a wonderful step

forward, and I applaud that.

Minister, at one point you were saying that you see

there are an increasing number of kids coming into care. Can you talk a little

bit about that? What are the numbers like and why are there more kids coming

into care?

MS JOHNSON: Well, in the last, I would say six to

eight months we have had an increase of about eighty kids come into our care. I

guess there are various theories as to why.

We proclaimed our act at the end of June. In that act

is the duty to report, and a real emphasis on advertising the duty to report. So

part of it might be the awareness piece, that more people are aware that this is

your obligation to report.

Other theories, there is more family violence, there

are more drugs. I do not know what the actual reason is. I do not think anybody

can put a real finger on it, and it is different for every family, of course. No

matter what it is, it is far better to have the children in our care than in the

situations that we see some of these kids in, for certain.

MS ROGERS: When we see this increase of more kids

coming into care, does that mean kids who are taken out of the home?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, that is what it means to be in

care. It is out-of-home placement.

MS ROGERS: Out-of-home placement. This seems to be

an unusual bump increase.

MS JOHNSON: No, it is not unusual at all. This is

everywhere across the country.

MS ROGERS: You have no theories as to what may be

some of the precipitating factors in terms of the department's prevention work

in order

MS JOHNSON: Well, that is where I talked about

earlier different regions were doing different things with supports in the

homes. We are really trying to focus on that and do a consistent model and

helping people as much as we possibly can in their home; 6,400 of the kids, we

work with in their home.

It is not taken lightly when you remove a child. It is

very difficult, but it is only done when necessary. We do our best to work with

them in the home; we do our best to provide the services. In some cases families

do not avail of the services and you are left with no choice.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

Okay.

MS JOHNSON: Just to add to that, not just in our

department, but there are horizontal strategies in government. Our Violence

Prevention Initiative, our Poverty Reduction Strategy, a piece of work being

done in Health on mental health and addictions and so on. There are lots of

things government is doing, but when it comes down to it, if the child is at

risk of maltreatment or is currently being maltreated then we are left with no

other choice.

Some of the cases that I read and I read too many of

them, sometimes just leave you up at night. It is horrific. Sometimes you can

give all the supports, you can throw all kinds of supports and unfortunately,

the children have to be removed but, we are working with 6,400 children in the

home. I would much rather work with them in their home than to have them in our

care.

I sometimes say it is just 10 per cent in our care,

just is not the right word. It is still 10 per cent, but it is only 10 per cent

of the kids that we work with are in our care.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

Youth, who are in care after seventeen years old, what

happens to them now?

MS JOHNSON: If they were in care before sixteen,

they would continue with us under a youth services agreement until their

nineteenth birthday, or if they are in post-secondary school they can continue

with us until they are twenty-one.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Do you know how many youth you might have in these

programs?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, we do have that here.

MS ROGERS: Then a youth is in your care up until

eighteen, because I know that Youth Corrections is up to eighteen.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, the new act before when you hit

sixteen, that is it, you were done with us. Now it is up to the person; they can

stay with us until they are eighteen, if they want to.

MS ROGERS: Until their eighteenth birthday, is it?

MS JOHNSON: Is it their eighteenth or nineteenth

birthday? Nineteenth birthday, isn't it? They can stay with us voluntarily until

they are nineteen.

OFFICIAL: It is eighteen under the act, but they

can stay on a youth services agreement until they finish school, until nineteen.

MS JOHNSON: Or until nineteen so if they are in

high school and they want to finish school they can stay until their nineteenth

birthday. If not, it is their eighteenth birthday.

MS ROGERS: That is a great step forward too.

MS JOHNSON: It is a lot of work to convince them

to stay with us.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MS JOHNSON: They are far better off to do it.

MS ROGERS: For those who want to, that is great to

have that ability.

The community Youth Corrections Program, how are the

thirty-five youth justice committees doing and are they all in place?

MS JOHNSON: Is that Wanda's department, the

thirty-five youth justice committee?

MS LUNDRIGAN: They are still in place. The youth

justice committees are purportedly working well and they are still in place all

over the Province with assistance, of course, from our permanent staff. They are

all voluntary committees, as you know.

MS ROGERS: Right.

The restorative justice and diversion programs, how

are those going? I know it is broad.

MS LUNDRIGAN: I have not heard that they are not

going well. They seem to be moving along. It is not an area that we have had to

focus on because it is one area that seems to have been working reasonably well

in terms of the way they worked in the Regional Health Authorities. There has

not been a significant focus on that particular program yet, Youth Corrections;

there might be more this year. Certainly, the last two years, our focus has been

in the whole area of protection, our legislation, and our services to families

who are on our protective caseloads.

MS ROGERS: Wanda, are the numbers increasing in

terms of the number of youth that have alternative court proceedings?

MS LUNDRIGAN: No, it has been fairly stable,

Gerry, over the past, I would say, five to ten years. We have very few in closed

custody, very few in open custody.

MS ROGERS: That is always a good thing.

MS JOHNSON: Sixty-six youth in care, that was as

of January.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great.

Thank you very much.

Addictions and mental health programs for youth, I

know some of that is under Health but also what comes under your department?

MS JOHNSON: It is all under Health.

MS ROGERS: It is all under Health?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS LUNDRIGAN: That is not to say that we do not

have children again who are in our care, who we might facilitate transportation

and care in an out-of-Province treatment facility.

MS ROGERS: Right.

MS LUNDRIGAN: We do have children in care that we

do support in treatment facilities.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The funding for a youth, for instance, to go

out-of-Province for addiction assistance or treatment, would that come from your

department or from Health?

MS LUNDRIGAN: If they are in our care.

MS ROGERS: Only if they are in your care. How many

children do you have in your care who are out-of-Province treatment?

MS JOHNSON: Fifty-four as of January.

MS ROGERS: Are most of them addictions or mental

health?

MS JOHNSON: Both. There are a lot of behavioural

issues, emotional issues.

CHAIR: A clue-up question, Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Where predominately do you send these kids? Are there

certain specific programs that you use or

MS JOHNSON: There is Ranch Ehrlo. They mostly go

to Alberta or Ontario, according to the journey authorizations.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: We have to authorize before they

travel and a social worker has to go with them, to transport them, so we pay for

all of that.

MS ROGERS: For a family to have a child in care,

does a family have to give up custody in order for that child to get those

services?

MS JOHNSON: Under the act, there is the risk of

maltreatment or maltreatment, but there is also a

section on inability to care

for your child. So that is how they would come in. If they say they cannot care

for their child or we see that they cannot care for their child and they can

do it through a voluntary agreement is the other thing.

MS ROGERS: If I were a parent with a child who has

severe emotional problems, I cannot get the services I need or the specific help

that the child might need here and then I come to your department or through a

social worker to say I need help with my child, in order for my child to get

that help, for instance, if my child needs to go away, do I have to give up

custody?

MS JOHNSON: No, there are lots of parents who have

children with behavioural issue, drug issues and they are still in their care.

MS ROGERS: Still in their care, but still with

services from your department?

MS JOHNSON: No, they would not have services from

our department. That would be Health.

MS ROGERS: That we be through Health, I see. Okay,

great.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Gerry.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess I can advise that I have completed my line by

lines, but I do have some general questions I am hoping I could ask. I am ready

to move to the Women's Policy section, but I do not know, Gerry may have some

more.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I do.

MR. A. PARSONS: In terms of my general questions,

number one, I do not know if I specifically asked for this but I am hoping you

can at least undertake to provide I would like a departmental list of

employees and the salaries, as used to be provided. It was not done this year,

but maybe you could have that done when you get an opportunity.

MS JOHNSON: My understanding is I was not here

on Thursday, I was at FPT meetings, but I was following Twitter. I thought

Minister Marshall said that is well underway, all of the information is in from

the departments and that it would be released soon. Maybe it is going to be

tweeted on.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just in case the minister

overlooks, my main point is to at least put it on the record and I guess get the

undertaking that if the minister does not provide that

MS JOHNSON: We will certainly do it for you, but I

have no doubt the minister will provide it.

MR. A. PARSONS: Perfect. Thank you.

Just some general questions, if I may. Now that this

department, there has been a lot of changes, do have a revised organizational

model that you might be able to

MS JOHNSON: Organizational chart?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS JOHNSON: Completely revised, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Would I be able to get a copy of

that just to make myself more familiar?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, I think we provided a copy.

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: Oh, sorry, that was to the Third

Party, but yes, we will give you a copy as well.

MR. A. PARSONS: Perfect. Thank you.

One question last year in March it was reported that

there was a security guard actually posted at the office out in Port aux

Basques. There were no details really given, but is that still in place?

MS JOHNSON: I do not think so.

OFFICIAL: No.

MS JOHNSON: No.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Are there any other offices in the Province that have

security staff?

MS JOHNSON: Some of our offices are located in

hospitals so if the hospital has security, there will be security. I guess if

the need arose we would put it in there on a temporary basis.

MR. A. PARSONS: There is none right now as it

stands.

MS JOHNSON: None right now.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I just wanted to ask a question this is something

that has been considered, but I am just trying to get my own head around it. You

which would probably be a bit of is that a tool that is used by your

department when it comes to investigations or is there any talk about it? I know

it is used by other government departments.

MS JOHNSON: I am not saying we would not look at

it. The difficulty is, how do you know what is on it is true, or a picture is

not doctored? It is probably not the I should not speak as a social worker

but I would not rely on Facebook only. I might use it in my toolkit for

evidence, but I would not base anything solely on it.

Is that fair to say? You are a social worker.

OFFICIAL: It might lead to an inquiry.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, it may lead to an inquiry, for

certain, and we may get a referral that somebody saw something on Facebook. We

would look into it because they saw it on Facebook, but in terms of solely

relying on it for evidence, that would be difficult.

MR. A. PARSONS: I would not say solely, I just did

not know if there was a policy. I actually had a matter under Income Support

where part of the evidence in the hearing was: You had pictures on Facebook that

showed this which differentiates from what you are saying, and that was used

as evidence.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Again, we are getting into legal

stuff. It might lead you to something, but every case is different, I suppose.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

And yes, you should be careful what you put on

Facebook.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: I just quickly wanted to talk

about foster care. What are the numbers in terms of actual foster homes for each

of your areas?

MS JOHNSON: We have the latest numbers, 641 foster

homes with 665 kids. I know that is the number, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Do you have a breakdown by region?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, we do.

I have it broken down by region as of January, and we

have it broken out by relative, significant other, and then non-relative. In

Metro we have forty-nine relatives and sixty-five non-relatives, so that would

be a total of 114. In Central East we have sixty relatives, eighty-two

non-relatives, for a total of 142. Western, we have forty-six relatives,

ninety-eight non-relatives, 144 in total. In Lab-Grenfell, we have thirty-nine

relatives, ninety non-relatives for 129. Then we break it out separately in

Lab-Grenfell for the Innu zone. We have ninety-six relatives and sixteen

non-relatives for a total of 112 there.

MR. A. PARSONS: Within the department, is this

enough?

MS JOHNSON: No, and that is why we have ALAs. That

is why we do not want to have ALAs anymore.

MR. A. PARSONS: Do you have an idea you have

given me a number on how many you have. Are there any numbers or estimates on

how many you would like to have per region, if you could, this is the number we

would be happy with?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Bearing in mind that it changes

weekly, daily, but under our continuum that we announced we are targeting thirty

new homes for this year. Twenty would be your foster homes, nine or ten we have

for kinship homes. That is our target.

That combined with our staff living arrangements and

looking at things like live-in parent model, when we did the strategy in the

numbers I think there were fifty-five in ALAs at that time. Today, there are

thirty-nine. In order to get rid of the fifty-five we needed thirty new relative

and non-relative homes and a combination of staff living arrangements.

MR. A. PARSONS: I know out my way, I do not know

if there are many in the Port aux Basques area right now, a lot of these

children have to go off to Stephenville or the Stephenville area. What do you do

to recruit new foster parent/foster homes? How do we go about increasing that

number?

MS JOHNSON: Part of the strategy is we have

$500,000 set aside for a promotional campaign. We are going to go big and large.

A lot of it will be using foster families that we currently have. The biggest

piece for recruitment is word of mouth.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: They talk about their experiences and

so on. The other thing that we have done since we have taken over from the

Regional Health Authorities is we have made the staff put a focus on it.

I was just in Corner Brook over Easter break, they

were so proud and excited and rightfully so to tell me that they just

recruited fourteen new foster homes. That is huge. They have not even been in

the department a year. So it is really putting that focused attention on that.

Everything we do in the department now, there are

going to be set targets. We have indicators. We are going to measure those

indicators. There is going to be quality checking on the work they do, so staff

are really living up to that.

I was really pleased with Corner Brook, but the

promotional campaign is going to be a huge part. Our partners in the Foster

Families Association, they are fabulous. They do great work promoting and trying

to attract more foster families all the time.

Some of the difficult things are the funding, the

compensation and the training. Those are the two biggest things that we heard.

Under the new strategy there will be increases and there is going to be a lot

more training.

MR. A. PARSONS: They need more money and they need

more training.

MS JOHNSON: They need more support.

MR. A. PARSONS: This promotional campaign, when do

you anticipate rolling that out?

MS JOHNSON: We will go with the RFP now this

summer I think it is, and then it will start in the fall. There is $250,000 in

year one, $250,000 in year two.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just a short follow-up to when you

should be training/support. So there is funding set aside to make sure these new

families get the support? If they are new to this process, they are going to get

the help they need to be able to do a good job.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, and we will announce the details

early June on all of the specifics of that.

MR. A. PARSONS: Perfect.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, in terms of how much more they

will receive.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Mr. Chair, that concludes the questions I have on the

CYFS section. I have the Women's Policy, but I will defer back to Ms Rogers.

MS JOHNSON: Okay, yes.

Gerry, how much time do you think you have left on

CYFS? I just want to get the staff.

MS ROGERS: Forty-five minutes, maybe.

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

Well, we will not e-mail them yet.

CHAIR: I remind members that we are in Estimates.

So, Gerry, kind of make some relevance back to the estimates in the Estimates

booklet. I do not mind questions, but let's try to make it relevant to the

estimates.

MS ROGERS: I would assume that they would be

relevant.

Thank you.

CHAIR: Okay. Thank you.

Go forward.

MS ROGERS: In 2.1.01, item 10, Grants and

Subsidies, can we have a list of those? I assume that any list or information

that Andrew has asked for I would receive and vice versa.

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

Grants and Subsidies, the $55 million for this year,

because before the Grants and Subsidies were just a block fund that went out to

the Regional Health Authorities.

MS ROGERS: That is right, yes.

MS JOHNSON: We can get you the list but there is a

whole host of family resource centres would come under that. We fund thirty

family resource centres in the Province. The child care centres that we fund

under our current capacity initiative and Choices for Youth. We will get you the

list.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: The Family Child Care Agencies, Foster

Families Association, AECENL, there is a whole list, Waypoints.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great.

Thank you very much.

I just want to look at some of your goals in your

strategic plan.

MS JOHNSON: I do not have that here so I will have

MS ROGERS: Okay.

In the Clinical Services Review, it says: Other key

areas for transformation recommended in the Clinical Services Review include to

stabilize the workforce through the development of a co-ordinated Province-wide

recruitment and retention program, implement a system for the management of

complex cases and update policies and procedures to ensure they are appropriate,

consistent and clear, and a system for workload measurement.

Have these been done?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. The first one is our

organizational structure; the 1 to 20 ratio is 1 to 6 and so on. We made a

commitment Province-wide to get to a caseload of one to twenty cases and to have

more access to supervisors. This is the one thing we heard so much from social

workers is that they needed access to supervisors. Now there is one supervisor

for every six social workers. Out of all the things we have done in the

department that is the one thing we hear back the most from social workers, it

is so nice to have access to a social worker and to be part of a line

department.

We also said, and Susan Abel also said in her report

that it is going to take about five years to complete our transformation. This

is not going to happen overnight. There are no quick fixes.

MS ROGERS: It is a big move.

MS JOHNSON: With the $2.4 million this year and

the twenty-nine new staff, that will get us now to a one to twenty-two caseload

Province-wide. We went from one to twenty-seven, one to twenty-eight, down to

now one to twenty-two. Hopefully, as we continue to do our workload measurement

we will be able to realign the staff that we need, depending on where the parts

of the Province are the busiest and the caseload is highest. If more staff is

needed after that workload measurement, then, of course, we will have to go back

to budget next year. So that is around the staffing.

I think you mentioned policies, as well. After the

introduction and proclamation of our act in June, last year, we completed a very

large binder, new policy book for all social workers. All of that is complete.

The protection and Youth Corrections is being worked

on. The recruitment piece, again, our social work students, paying them and just

giving them support. That is a huge piece in retaining the staff that we have

and making their job somewhat easier to manage.

MS ROGERS: Yes. Of the twenty-nine new positions,

have they been filled?

MS JOHNSON: No, they were just announced in this

year's Budget.

MS ROGERS: Just announced.

MS JOHNSON: We will be starting that process now.

We just brought in Labrador in Easter, so we are still trying to figure out what

their workload measurement, what they need the most. Is it a social worker, a

supervisor, or clerical and so on? Then, depending what the area needs this

was a huge undertaking to go out and count every single case and see what

regions had what. Then looking at the different areas, Youth Corrections,

adoption and so on, seeing how it is all spread out and where the work caseload

was highest. Then we assign the staff based on where the need is.

MS ROGERS: Can you tell me a little bit about the

relationship then with the courts and with the increase in the number of kids

who are in care? What percentage do we have of parents contesting that, and how

is that going?

MS JOHNSON: I am told of the group that we get

orders on, 4 per cent to 6 per cent go to court.

MS ROGERS: Four to 6 per cent?

MS JOHNSON: Four to 6 per cent. So say 5 per cent.

MS LUNDRIGAN: Of all our cases that are in care,

actually we have to go for court orders on them. It is a small number, but it is

often a lot of appearances.

MS ROGERS: Often sorry?

MS LUNDRIGAN: It is often a fair number of

appearances.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

MS LUNDRIGAN: There are a fair number of

appearances required.

MS ROGERS: For like one case?

MS LUNDRIGAN: Exactly.

MS ROGERS: Yes. So only that number, percentage

would actually end up in court.

MS LUNDRIGAN: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Thank you.

In the strategic goals, "By March 31, 2011, the

Department of Child, Youth and Family Services will have implemented key

initiatives towards strengthened services for children and youth."

The new legislation is in place, yes?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Is the quality monitoring unit

established?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Business review of the electronic case

management system?

MS JOHNSON: That is underway.

MS ROGERS: It is underway, great.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. There is a lot of work being done

on that.

MS ROGERS: The provincial on-call system designed?

MS JOHNSON: That is underway. We have a draft

design, but it is not finalized yet.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Plan for continuum of residential care, we have spoken

about that.

MS JOHNSON: We just announced that.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Plan for an early learning and child care strategy for

future development.

MS JOHNSON: We just announced that.

MS ROGERS: Yes. Can you tell me with the new plan

for assistance it is for different daycare centres?

MS JOHNSON: Yes and family child care.

MS ROGERS: And family child care. What would be

the rate for families to get child care per child?

MS JOHNSON: What is the cap for the subsidy rate,

or what is the daily rate that we subsidize?

MS ROGERS: No we could have that. With the

development and the roll out of a plan, a family needing child care, if their

children are not under your care, what do you think the average rate would be

for a family to pay for a child in full-time child care?

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

Under what we announced, we said there would be a

voluntary operating grant program. If you come in under our system, whether you

are private or not-for-profit we will provide you with an operating grant. That

helps offset lost revenue because let me back up. The average rates right now

in the Province for an infant is $58 a day, for a two-to-five year old it is $38

a day, and for after school it is $17 a day. Those are the average rates.

Our subsidy rates that we provide to parents who avail

of our subsidy, and there are 2,200 children who get the subsidy

MS ROGERS: That would be parents with low income?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. The cap is somewhere around

$50,000. You can still get a portion of the subsidy, but if you have two parents

making say somewhere around minimum wage you will get full subsidy. Full subsidy

is $44 a day for infants, $30 a day for two-to-five year olds, and $14 a day for

after school.

If you are lucky enough to get a child care centre

that have subsidy rates that is great, but if not, then you are surcharged. If

you are getting $30 a day for a two year old and they are charging $35 a day,

then that parent who needed the money in the first place, just by the nature of

the fact they are low income, they have to pay an additional $25 a week, $100 a

month. That is something we wanted to eliminate under the new strategy, this

whole surcharging.

If you come in under our voluntary operating grant

system then we will require if you are receiving public funds you will have to

cap your parent fee at the subsidy rate. There will be no more surcharging.

MS ROGERS: I see.

MS JOHNSON: Bearing in mind though, there will be

some centres out there that will want to stay operating as they are and not

receive an operating grant. They can charge $60 a day if they want to, and if

parents choose to do that, then that is fine. We are not in a position to put

them out of business because we need the spaces.

MS ROGERS: Right. Yes.

MS JOHNSON: As long as they are quality spaces and

there is a market for them, then they can stay doing that. The reality is most

of these private operators, well not just private, all of them are operating day

to day. They are not making profits, the majority of them. I think that we will

see the majority of them come in under our operating system.

MS ROGERS: What is the ceiling for eligibility

then for a subsidy for child care?

MS JOHNSON: It is in the high fifties.

MS ROGERS: High fifties for total family income?

MS JOHNSON: Or if it is one person as well.

It is a little higher for two I do not have the

exact number. Fifty-eight seems to ring a bell and fifty-four if you are single,

you get partial subsidy.

MS ROGERS: If I were making $50,000 a year and

have a child that I want to put in child care then I would get a subsidy

MS JOHNSON: You would get a partial subsidy.

MS ROGERS: What would be a partial subsidy?

MS JOHNSON: It is on a sliding scale. So it really

depends.

MS ROGERS: Can we have a list of those?

MS JOHNSON: You can have a copy of the scale if

you want to, but it is going to change because I

OFFICIAL: It is on the Web site.

MS JOHNSON: It is on the Web site? Okay.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: It will change more than likely

because that is one of the things that we are having reviewed this year. I do

not know where it is going to go, but right now it is based on your income and

it does not matter if you have one child or three children. I just really think

that needs a good look. We will give you what is there for now, but we are

starting that review this summer. It is already the third best in the country,

but we will make it better when we are done.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

In terms of the number of child care spaces that are

needed in the Province and the number that can be provided through this program,

what is the difference?

MS JOHNSON: Nobody could give me an answer,

everywhere I went in the Province. I mean, you have to first realize that there

is parental choice. Some people stay home with their children. Others want their

child with their grandmother or family, or a friend close by or a neighbour that

they trust. Others really like the family child care settings, small groups up

to six kids, or up to three kids if it is infant, and others chose to go to a

not-for-profit or private. There are lots of choices built in, not everybody

needs child care and they may choose to stay home.

The reality is we need more than we have. Right now

when we started the work for the strategy, there were 6,760 regulated child care

spaces. We are targeting, over ten years, to increase that by 70 per cent. So to

add on another 4,830, that is going to be a huge piece of work and a lot of

working with municipalities, community-based organizations, and a huge promotion

piece working with the schools. One of the things that I really like is having

the child care centre in the school, if there is space; if not, very nearby. We

announced that in Lab City and there are other examples. We have child care in

Booth Memorial, Ascension in Bay Roberts, and in Stephenville as well.

MS ROGERS: That is great.

MS JOHNSON: So doing more of that, but again it is

going to be absolute huge piece of work. Our target is seventy, if we can do

better than that it is really about the need that is out there. Then that

brings me to how we are going to determine the need. Because nobody around the

Province could set a figure and they said it is different in every different

part of the Province. We thought we would go into an area and do a needs

assessment for that area.

We plan to announce, this year, ten areas where we are

going to really focus, and it is going to be around the labour market demand.

Labrador is an easy pick. We went to Labrador and there is very little in the

way of regulated child care spaces. Parents are paying huge amounts of money for

unregulated child care a day. Not a lot of grandparents are there, because when

they retire they move on. So we heard it all. That is one area we know I can

tell you before we do our announcement that will be on the top ten list

because there is such a great need there, particularly with the labour demand.

So we are going to do a focused needs assessment for each area and we will start

with the highest need areas first.

MS ROGERS: When will you be doing that?

MS JOHNSON: We will start this summer, and we will

announce the top ten areas. Not to say we are not going to do other areas,

because the operating grant that I talked about will not start until 2014-2015,

and the reason is we have 182 child care centres, we need to consult with them

and look at the different configurations and see what they are going to need for

an operating grant. Originally we talked about maybe starting half of them in

year one and half in year two, and I did not want to do that. If people are

going to come on paying a capped fee, I wanted them all to come on at the same

time for fairness, and there is a huge piece of work to do before them.

In the interim, we are continuing with our capacity

initiative. That is for not-for-profit groups; they can come forward at any

time. Now that there is more of the word out there about the 10-Year Child Care

Strategy I am getting e-mails every day from groups we have a development

association; we think we can put a child care centre in the basement. So bring

it on. We have the fund there

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: Yes, and the other piece of the child

care strategy, the most critical piece, in my view, is quality staff. If you do

not have quality staff you do not have quality child care, which is most

important for the child, but you do not have spaces either. We have some centres

in the city that are licensed for thirty and they are operating with forty-five

kids because they cannot find the staff. We do give exemptions, but there is

only so far you can go with exemptions.

So, under the new model, you will be a trainee and you

will have to come to a Level I within a certain period of time. We are

introducing a new Level I certificate. I heard around the Province there should

be an apprentice-like program, so we are introducing an on-the-job training

component where you will get credit for some people work in these child care

centres for ten years. So you give credit for that, with some classroom portion.

People talked about prior learning equivalency, if you are nurse or a teacher,

we are going to do that as well. There is still going to be a class component.

So the staffing component is huge; the quality piece is huge. So, starting with

the needs assessment, but first starting with getting the staff.

Enrolment is up now already. Since we announced the

strategy, CNA has seen an increase in the number of people enrolling, which is

great because they have thirty seats and typically they graduate nine. They have

more applications now than they have seats, but there are also the private

colleges as well.

Getting them qualified and trained in one year

because before you could not, there was no exit point to get your level I, you

had to do twenty-one out of thirty-three courses which took you into year two

anyway. This way, you can get it done in one year, get out, be working, and have

your Level I. That is going to be the biggest piece. Our strategy is over ten

years, but you had to start with the key pieces first, and the staff is a key

piece.

The operating grants, like I said, will not be until

2014, but we are continuing with our capacity initiative in the interim. So if

you know any not-for-profit groups we were just, last week, down at the

children's centre on Craigmiller Avenue and announced money under that

initiative there. They previously only had part-time spaces. I think it was

twenty-four and now they are gone up to forty, full-time and part-time.

MS ROGERS: That is without the assistance of the

new program with operating grants?

MS JOHNSON: Well, our capacity initiative is very

much like what our operating grants will look like and it is a real good test

for us in the interim. We have been doing that since 2006 and that is how we

kind of rolled out the operating. It will operate very much like that. Now that

they are getting a grant from us, they have to cap their fees. So the rate at

the children's centre is only $30 a day for two-to-five year-olds, and they have

spaces for September if anybody is listening.

They will get calls they will be filled up by the

end of the day now that I just said that. I probably should not have said that.

I should not advertise for a group, I suppose.

MS ROGERS: Too late. It is out there.

MS JOHNSON: I take that back.

CHAIR: Gerry, are we twenty minutes away so the

minister can ask her Women's Policy people to come forward?

MS ROGERS: Yes, I would say I am maybe just five

or six more minutes.

MS JOHNSON: Okay, tell them to come on over.

CHAIR: Thank you, Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: I talk too much too because I get so

excited

MS ROGERS: It is great to hear from you. It is

great to hear what is happening and what the plans are and

MS JOHNSON: Well, we listen to the issues and we

have responded. I mean, you have to talk to the people who experience it.

MS ROGERS: We know it is a huge, huge challenge in

the Province, the whole area of affordable child care and quality child care.

Can we have a

summary and a breakdown of the child

care program, the totals, the subsidies and grants, salaries, grants to

organizations, quality and inclusion grants, and anything else?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, we can give it to how it

currently is.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Then if you have any thoughts on

where you see it going

MS JOHNSON: Well, we will be releasing our 10-Year

Child Care Strategy document, I would say in June.

MS ROGERS: Oh, we will be watching.

MS JOHNSON: The plan is to release it in June. You

will have the whole document then.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Also, can we have some updated stats on the number of

centres and family daycare centres by region, and the spaces by region, family

and centre?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, I have that here if you want it

now.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Maybe if we can get a copy of

that?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. There are 182 child care centres

Province wide. We do have it broken down by region, and there are about 100

family child care regulated homes.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The family resource centres that have daycare, do some

of them have daycare?

MS JOHNSON: I do not think any of them have

daycare. They would have programs where parents come with the kids, parenting,

nutrition, playgroups, and healthy baby clubs.

MS ROGERS: That is great, isn't it? It is great,

wonderful places.

MS JOHNSON: All our family resource centres are

fabulous.

MS ROGERS: The number of new spaces created last

year, when we look at has there been an increase?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Under the Family Child Care

Initiative we had 156 regulated child care spaces last year. We have forty-seven

more applications at various stages of the process. With those there is

potential for 282 more. That is just under Family Child Care. It is far

surpassing what we ever thought it would do.

Under the Capacity Initiative, we had JRS in Lab West

that was sixty spaces. We had Bay Bulls which was forty-eight spaces. I will

have to get you the list. The Children's Centre, which we just did, that

increased another sixteen spaces. It varies throughout the Province.

MS ROGERS: Yes. If we could have that list, it

would be great.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, no problem.

MS ROGERS: The number of children receiving

subsidy?

MS JOHNSON: Twenty-two hundred.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

This has just been great. Thank you so very much.

MS JOHNSON: I have to say the staff in this

department is fabulous. We could not do all we are doing without the hard work

of these people who are here with me and the others in the staff. The Child Care

Strategy lots of nights and weekends, and around the circles. They are very

dedicated. So I will put it on record to thank them.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Yes, absolutely.

What are some of your greatest challenges?

MS JOHNSON: Oh my God. I thought you said five

minutes?

MS ROGERS: You can take longer.

MS JOHNSON: Actually, I think we are over the big

hump. Transitioning in 700-plus staff was no easy feat. You had ten different

bargaining units, lots of sharing of body parts, arms and legs. When you are

separating from a Regional Health Authority, who gets the upper torso, who gets

the lower? Because they were doing both when they were there. The MOU process

that we went through with each Regional Health Authority was a huge task.

Really, right now the challenge for us is getting our numbers up.

The Auditor General talked about the FCAPs and the

risk assessments last January, and those numbers were very poor. Our focus is

getting those numbers in line with the industry standard. All of the targets

that we are setting, we want to improve. We are not going to be there tomorrow.

It is impossible to go from 10 per cent in the AG's report last year 10 per

cent of risk assessments done to 90 per cent or 85 per cent is the industry

standard, you cannot get there. Our goal is to take baby steps.

We are already seeing from Corner Brook, they have

only been in from a year. The audits that are being done there, they are jumping

in leaps and bounds but still, we are not anywhere near the industry standard

yet. So, that is the biggest challenge before us.

MS ROGERS: The audits are what exactly? Are they

the risk assessments in terms of families or

MS JOHNSON: Well, I am just talking about that as

one example. The AG highlighted in his report last year that we were at 10 per

cent of all of our risk assessments.

MS ROGERS: What does it mean that you are 10 per

cent of all your risk assessments?

MS JOHNSON: Well, only 10 per cent of risk

assessments were being done on time.

MS ROGERS: On time, I see. Okay.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Like if it is a thirty-day

deadline and thirty-day time limit. Only 10 per cent of them were being done on

time. That has already improved. It is, again, about putting your indicators in

place. The training is so critically important. All of our social workers now

have to undergo 244 hours of training, and our managers have to do about 270 or

280 hours of training.

MS ROGERS: Over a period of how long? Once they

come to you, to your department?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, once they come to us, and we do

it in blocks. There are how many different cores, six or nine different cores?

I am trying to remember.

OFFICIAL: There are eight modules. We are

targeting now about eighteen months for everybody to complete it, because we

have a bulk and new employee intake as well.

MS JOHNSON: Because we have so many to get trained

off, we are predicting it will be about eighteen months, and you do not want

somebody gone from the staff for a long length of time. So you go for awhile, do

some training, come back, and rotate like that. Once everybody is trained up,

then for new staff who come in we could do it in a year.

That would be our biggest hurdle now, is making sure

the proper training is in place so that we can meet those indicators and meet

those targets; so really working on the ground with the staff. That is why I

asked for an increase in the transportation budget, because we need to be out

there working with them, constantly seeing that we are there, we are with them,

we support them.

MS ROGERS: Great.

The Stephenville training centre, can you talk a

little bit about that?

MS JOHNSON: That is where all of this training

would be done. Well, not all of it. If there are clusters in St. John's or

somewhere else we would do it there rather than pay the travel for everyone but

the majority will be done there. Training started

MS ROGERS: So you will have social workers going

to the

MS JOHNSON: To Stephenville, yes, and we would

take them. You do not want too many people gone from your region at a time. We

will take some from various parts of the Province. We usually do it in about

twenty social workers per training session. We started in September. It is up

and running and it is in full swing.

MS ROGERS: What will the budget be for that

training centre?

MS JOHNSON: I will have to get that for you. It is

something like $300,000 is ringing a bell but I really want to check. There are

three trainers. It is a great partnership with the college.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: I do not have all the details but they

do not charge us for the space or the curriculum development. They helped us

with all the curriculum development as well and they are allowing us to use all

of their seventeen campuses. If we have a cluster at the campus in Clarenville

then we can go there and use their facilities there.

MS ROGERS: When we look at some of the best

practices in this area across the country there is more of a push to get

community resources, community groups to help in the whole area of helping

family, providing supports in the community. Is there any movement within the

department to look at that, to increase funding to community groups to assist

with parenting programs to assist families?

MS JOHNSON: What we are doing right now, because

we just got everybody in and we are having a look at all the groups that were

funded, why they are being funded, what service they are providing, is it the

service that we need. There is a complete review going on of all of that now.

Again, it is about having consistency across the

Province because it would be unfair if St. John's was providing something that

another part of the Province is not getting or vice versa. That is a complete

review that we are doing right now. The parenting course is one example. Who is

delivering it? Is it consistent in the modules that they are delivering? Is it

what we want? All of that is ongoing right now but certainly the community

groups are a major help to us.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Now my last question: What is your wish list, if you

have a wish list?

MS JOHNSON: I have to say I was so pleased with

the money received, not only in this year's Budget it was a little over $8

million but in the last three years we have received $42 million over three

years. At a time when provinces are struggling and there is a deficit this year,

we have everything we need.

The Premier was on Turner. She totally gets this. When

it comes to the continuum piece, she understood that fully. When it comes to the

child care piece, she said: Get it done, and get it done right. Not only the

Premier, all of the Cabinet colleagues when I presented this at Cabinet were:

Let's do it! When we presented, it was like: Yes, we got it. I do not have a

wish list, other than let's work with the staff and get done what we set out to

do.

MS ROGERS: Great, thank you.

MS JOHNSON: That is very rare to hear, I know, but

we have all we need to work with.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: Thank you.

CHAIR: Thank you, Gerry.

Andrew, do you want a closing remark before we close

this session?

MR. A. PARSONS: For CYFS?

CHAIR: Yes.

You are good?

MR. A. PARSONS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Okay.

Minister, I want to thank

MS ROGERS: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Gerry.

MS ROGERS: I would like to just close to say thank

you very much for your time and I really appreciate it.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister. Thank you and your

staff. It has been a very enthusiastic morning, and your openness and frankness

has been greatly appreciated by all Committee members. I thank all of your staff

for being here this morning and taking the time to do this. We certainly

appreciate it here at the Committee. Thank you so much.

MS JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Environment, of

course, with my background, but there is no more important work you can do when

you are working with vulnerable populations like children, so it is pretty

rewarding stuff.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Clerk, could you call it inclusive, please?

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01 to 2.1.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Shall we carry 1.1.01 through 2.1.02

inclusive?

AN HON. MEMBER: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Contra-minded.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.1.01 through 2.1.02 inclusive

carried.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Thank you.

On motion, Department of Child, Youth and Family

Services, total heads, carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the

Department of Child, Youth and Family Services carried without amendment?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Child, Youth

and Family Services carried without amendment.

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Yes, we have to wait for Women's Policy.

Why don't we say we will reconvene in ten minutes, Minister, or 11:00 a.m.?

MS JOHNSON: Five minutes.

CHAIR: The minister says five minutes. Five

minutes it is, at 10:50 a.m.

Recess

CHAIR: I think we are ready to reconvene, if we

could, please.

Thank you.

I welcome the people from Women's Policy. I will note

that we are doing this under leave. This has been the normal practice. Women's

Policy falls under Executive Council and it was not assigned to our Committee,

but we will do this as it seems to be the traditional way, Minister. So we will

continue.

I have just a couple of general notes for the people

who are joining us. Please state your name when you are speaking so Hansard can

record it. Please wait for the red light. I will ask our Committee members to

introduce themselves.

My name is Glenn Littlejohn. I am the MHA for the Port

de Grave district and I am the Chair of the Committee.

MR. A. PARSONS: Andrew Parsons, MHA, Burgeo La

Poile.

MS BUCKLE: Joy Buckle, Researcher.

MS ROGERS: Gerry Rogers, MHA, St. John's Centre.

MS WILLIAMS: Susan Williams, Researcher.

MR. LITTLE: Glen Little, MHA, Bonavista South.

MR. CRUMMELL: Dan Crummell, MHA, St. John's West.

MR. CORNECT: Tony Cornect, District of Port au

Port.

CHAIR: Could we call the first heading, please?

CLERK: We do not need to call the heading because

we are not

CHAIR: That is fine. We do not need to do that. We

will move on.

Minister, you can introduce your staff and if you have

any opening comments, we will start from there.

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

I am Charlene Johnson, Minister of the Status of

Women.

MS MACLELLAN: Heather MacLellan, Deputy Minister

for the Women's Policy Office.

MS HAYES: Robin Hayes, Manager of Finance and

Budgeting for the Executive Council.

MS TRICKETT: Wanda Trickett, Departmental

Comptroller, Executive Council.

MS HUNT: Michelle Hunt, Director of

Communications, Child, Youth and Family Services and then under Women's Policy

Office.

MS MAIDMENT: Donna Maidment, EA to Minister

Johnson.

CHAIR: Minister.

MS JOHNSON: I think, due to the time, maybe we

will just get right to it, if that is fine with you guys.

CHAIR: Okay.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Firstly I would like to thank the minister and the

department staff for taking the time to be with us this morning. I would also

add that I am not the critic for this portfolio, but Ms Jones could not be here

this morning due to a family situation, so I have taken this on her behalf.

I am going to move right into the line here, under

Women's Policy Office, 2.7.01, under Salaries. We see here that the budgeted

amount for last year was not actually spent. What would the reasoning for this

be?

MS JOHNSON: Somebody left in December, the

communications specialist, so that would have been some savings there. We have

since filled that. We had delayed recruitment of the Managers for Social and

Economic Policy, but they have both been since filled and delayed recruitment of

two training positions under the Violence Prevention Initiative are they

filled?

OFFICIAL: No.

MS JOHNSON: They are still not filled, and that

would be it.

MR. A. PARSONS: Two questions arising from that.

The violence prevention trainers, are they expected to be hired in the near

future?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, we had to redo the competition.

There was only one person applied. Now we are re-advertising, redoing it again,

but the intent is to fill them, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: The second part: There is still

just over $50,000 less budgeted for Salaries than last year, would that be due

to salary scales from old hires to new hires?

MS JOHNSON: That might be part of it and part of

it is where we found some of our 3 per cent cost-saving initiative.

MR. A. PARSONS: Were there job cuts? Was there any

cut

MS JOHNSON: It would not be a job cut. It would be

delays in advertising or probably looking at what we may not need part of the

year instead of a full year. What is the one position?

OFFICIAL: Business manager.

MS JOHNSON: The business manager position, we are

looking at that and some of that can probably be spread out with the other

staff, and that has been vacant.

MR. A. PARSONS: So that is a position that has not

been filled that you might, instead of redoing that position, farm it out.

MS JOHNSON: Well, to staff within the Women's

Policy Office, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: I guess you could say in terms of

whether the staff are filled or not, there will be one less position than, say,

last year? Possibly.

MS JOHNSON: Technically, but it has not been

filled anyway and this is something we were going to do even before the 3 per

cent was announced.

MR. A. PARSONS: How long has the position been

vacant?

MS JOHNSON: It has never been filled, so it is not

a loss of something that has been there.

MS MACLELLAN: I have been doing it.

MS JOHNSON: Heather has been doing it.

MS MACLELLAN: I will continue to do it.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am going to move on to

Transportation and Communications.

What transportation and communications did not happen

last year to make up the savings of just over $42,000?

MS JOHNSON: Because of the vacant positions, those

people did not have to be trained and so on.

MR. A. PARSONS: This year the budget is down to

$255,000.

Are you anticipating

MS JOHNSON: Less need for the training. With

transportation, when we are doing our 3 per cent savings, this is one of the

areas where we could cut back in this department.

MR. A. PARSONS: Moving on to line 5, Professional

Services: What services did you plan to acquire that you did not? There was

$391,000 budgeted, but you only needed $144,000.

MS JOHNSON: I have what we did spend it on. Do you

have what we had planned there?

MS MACLELLAN: Yes, (inaudible).

MS JOHNSON: Okay, you go ahead and answer that.

MS MACLELLAN: We funded a number of professional

services, including supporting a Stats Canada report on measuring violence

against women, which was something we were doing at the FPT table across Canada.

A very important document needed to be updated. We did some work with the

Department of Education about behavioural supports. That was very important.

One of the big reasons why that is under spent is that

we planned to under spend it because we wanted to put more money into our

Respect Women campaign and our outrage campaign. We had planned that very early

and we made that transfer very early so we could do that and so we could get as

much air time as we could to saturate and get the benefits we wanted to get.

MR. A. PARSONS: That would be the reasoning why

the budget is back.

MS JOHNSON: The Purchased Services is higher. It

was moved to Purchased Services to do that social marketing piece.

MR. A. PARSONS: In terms of Professional Services

for this year, you are back up to that range of where you were last year. What

are you planning or what do you have budgeted for this year in terms of

Professional Services?

MS MACLELLAN: Professional Services this year will

include our evaluation of our VPI plan of action and we will also be doing some

work around gender-based analysis.

MR. A. PARSONS: Those contracts, have they been

tendered?

MS JOHNSON: The VPI consultant, that one was the

RFP went out for that. The other pieces would not be done yet, no.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

You will go through the normal process?

MS JOHNSON: Oh, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: You explained to me number 6. That

is why Purchased Services was higher than was budgeted, because it was a

transfer really of funds from

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I am going to move down to Property, Furnishings and

Equipment. What was the overage for that

section from last year?

MS JOHNSON: We bought a photocopier. We do a lot

of fact sheets in the department and it needed to be colour. That was $12,000,

and a desktop computer and a laptop. It totalled about well we thought it was

going to be a total of $20,000 but it was actually a little bit less than that

because we did not end up spending $7,000 of it. These Estimates are estimates

for at that time.

MR. A. PARSONS: Explain to me under this

section

what Grants and Subsidies consists of, please?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. That would be our eight women's

centres. This increase that you see for this year reflects the 5 per cent

increase that we announced for the eight women's centres. Eight of them now

receive $127,625 each. That is up from $55,000 back in 2004. That totals roughly

$1 million.

Then we give ten grants to the regional anti-violence

groups. They all get $80,000 each with the exception of Labrador, it gets

$100,000. That is another $820,000. We give $105,000 to Transition House

Association of Newfoundland and Labrador; $110,000 for the Newfoundland and

Labrador Sexual Assault Crisis and Prevention Centre; $100,000 to Multicultural

Women's Organization of Newfoundland and Labrador; and we give Aboriginal

women's grants $100,000 to the Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network, and

$200,000 for violence prevention Aboriginal women's grants.

Those are application-based, that they apply for the

maximum is $30,000. You go through an application process. We have here who

received them last year if you want it, and that would happen soon again this

year. We will be going out soon with this advertisement.

MR. A. PARSONS: If I could get that list after, I

would appreciate that.

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: This is sort of, not a theoretical

question, but there is an increase for the Gateway Status of Women's centre

which is a great thing. Do you anticipate, at least maintaining that level on a

go-forward basis? That is not going to be part of what they call the core

mandate cut down the road is there?

MS JOHNSON: This did not get a cut. This actually

got a 5 per cent increase and has every year now for the last five years, or

six? At least six years. That has been the historical trend. I would never dare

predict what the future trend would be, but the Premier was the previous

minister for this department and this is one area where we are really focusing

on. I do not know what it would be in the future.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

That is good news for the ladies at the centre in Port

aux Basques who are

MS JOHNSON: In an area where there were cuts and

they received a 5 per cent increase that should be good news, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just a quick question on 2.7.02

Provincial Advisory Council on the Status of Women. There was just a slight

decrease there of $10,000 under Grants and Subsidies.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. This is money that, historically,

we looked at what they spent and of the $462,000 they had budgeted last year I

think they only spent $404,000. Historically, they have not been spending that

money. So we just reduced it by 10 per cent as part of our 3 per cent reduction.

Really, it was a drop balance anyway so there is no real impact.

MR. A. PARSONS: Last year it was $462,700 budgeted

but it was $462,700 spent as well?

MS JOHNSON: No. They only spent $404,000, and that

is historically around where they spend.

We still wanted to give them flexibility to have that

extra $50,000 that they historically do not spend. We just reduced it by

$10,000. The drop balance is normally about $50,000 to $60,000. We did not take

away the entire drop balance, just $10,000 of it.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am having a little bit of

confusion there because I am looking at the numbers; it looks like it was spent.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, and it looks like we predicted we

would spend it but they did not. They only spent $404,000.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: Areas where they did not, council

meeting per diems. They thought they were going to spend $7,250, they only spent

$3,750. Outreach, they thought they were going to spend $18,000, they spent

$10,000. IT software these are budgeted amounts you think you are going to

spend, you have to have it in there in case you do need it they only spent

$1,800. In salaries, one staff member was not there for three-and-a-half months.

The office lease, they had budgeted for $36,000 it was actually only $27,000.

MR. A. PARSONS: How many employees or staff

people?

MS JOHNSON: There are four.

MR. A. PARSONS: Would we be able to get a list of

their names and positions as well?

MS JOHNSON: We can give positions. Are we allowed

to give names? I do not know.

MR. A. PARSONS: I do not know if you want to do it

on the record. Just positions even.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, you can have positions and

salary. I do not think we are allowed to attach names to the salaries, private

information.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Mr. Chair, those are all the questions I have on this

heading.

Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: Okay.

CHAIR: Thank you, Andrew.

Gerry.

MS ROGERS: I wanted to thank you all very much for

being here. It is great to be here. I want to congratulate you on some of the

fantastic, very successful work that you are doing. The Respect Women campaign

is just stunning. Some of the anti-violence work you are doing is just superb

and makes us all proud. Congratulations for great work.

I do not have any particular line to line, except

under Grants and Subsidies we see the commitment to honour the 5 per cent

increase for women's centres. What about some of the other non-profit

organizations, like the Multicultural Women's Organization, the Aboriginal

women's anti-violence program, Transition House Association? Are they receiving

any increase at all?

MS JOHNSON: No, but they are not receiving any

decrease either. They are maintained.

MS ROGERS: Okay. So they are going to be

MS JOHNSON: There are nineteen other groups, we

maintain funding for them all. There were no decreases but there were no

increases. We maintained it.

MS ROGERS: That would, for instance, also include

the violence prevention regional committees?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Great. Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: We did increase the Inuit capacity.

There is an announcement for the Inuit capacity building initiative of $125,000

a year for the next two years.

MS ROGERS: What would that program involve?

MS JOHNSON: This is really to get into the Inuit

communities and help them find their

MS ROGERS: This is women, is it?

MS JOHNSON: Pardon me?

MS ROGERS: Women?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great.

MS JOHNSON: We help them to find their way through

all the government programs, and grants and services that are out there. That is

one of the things we find is that they are not always aware of what is available

to them.

MS ROGERS: Right.

MS JOHNSON: This is getting on the ground and

helping them build that capacity.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MS JOHNSON: It is amazing what came out of that.

They started a Facebook page. We mentioned Facebook earlier, but they have 400

women signed up through their Facebook page and they get information about all

the different government programs.

MS ROGERS: That is a great thing.

MS JOHNSON: You can go ahead and add that.

MS MACDONALD: Last week we did leadership

development in Nain. There were eight Inuit women who participated in that. We

were delighted.

MS ROGERS: Oh, great.

MS JOHNSON: We partner with IBRD to have different

conferences or different sessions on starting up your own business, that kind of

thing.

MS ROGERS: Great, wonderful. It is good to hear

that. It is heartbreaking to see any women's organization not fighting for every

penny they can possibly get and taking advantage of any kind of grants and

programming that is available.

MS JOHNSON: Part of the capacity that I just

mentioned, we worked with them a lot to work with the federal government. As a

result, they received a $300,000 grant. I do not know the group, but it was all

for Inuit women. They would not have been able to do that without that capacity

initiative and without having our staff on the ground to get that and to

leverage the federal funding.

MS ROGERS: That is a great investment. That is

good to hear.

What is planned this year for the Violence Prevention

Initiative?

MS JOHNSON: Well, the six years are up now. It was

$12 million from 2006 to 2012. We just put out an RFP to hire a consultant to

start our evaluation process, to talk with all of our stakeholders, and see what

the next steps are and where we want to go next. Then we will have to evaluate

that, bring it Cabinet, and see where we will go.

MS ROGERS: Is there any money specifically

allocated this year for that?

MS JOHNSON: We are still continuing with the $2

million that is in the forecast.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Last year's was ?

MS JOHNSON: Two million. It is $2 million a year

for six years.

MS ROGERS: Oh, I see. Six years finishes this

fiscal year.

MS JOHNSON: It finishes the end of this year.

MS ROGERS: At the end of March 2013?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great.

I have some specific questions I would like to ask

pertaining to your business plan and some of the strategic goals. By March 31,

2012, Women's Policy will have developed a new six-year Violence Prevention

Initiative plan for government with measures to prevent violence against each of

our vulnerable populations.

Where is that at now?

MS JOHNSON: That is the piece we are at now with a

consultant. We had to move it forward a little bit and we will be working on it

early in this year.

MS ROGERS: Okay. It is not just the evaluation,

but also the new plan as well?

MS JOHNSON: Yes, it is so.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great.

By March 31, Women's Policy will have developed and

posted on-line tools to support the natural resource sector in advancing

gender-based analysis, women's employment plans, and business access strategies.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, we have posted some materials.

This is some really exciting stuff we are doing in the department. I was just in

Halifax and I spoke at the CWST Lorraine is a member of that, right?

OFFICIAL: Yes, a honourary member.

MS JOHNSON: She is a honourary member trying to

promote women in science and engineering trades and technology was the purpose

of the conference. We were asked to do a presentation. We lead the country when

it comes to women's employment plans.

The one that we are working on with Hebron right now

is the only one of its kind in the world for an offshore development. We set

targets of the number of women that you have to hire in both the operation phase

and the construction phase, and we are stepping that up a notch now. We are

requiring the companies to set targets in terms of the women businesses they do

business with, in terms of supplier diversity and so on.

There is lots of great feedback from that, and lots of

requests to talk to Newfoundland and Labrador to see what we are doing, how we

are doing it. Again, when the Premier was there as Minister of Natural Resources

this is something that she started in the Status of Women.

Negotiations are ongoing with Hebron. So I cannot get

into the details, but there is a major focus on supplier diversity and having

women-owned businesses have part of the action as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS JOHNSON: Vale Inco, just as a point of

interest, we require them to hire 20 per cent women at the demonstration plant,

and they achieved 37 per cent. They offered all of those women a job in the new

plant when it opens because they are all trained.

MS ROGERS: Great.

That was another question I was going to ask in terms

of are we seeing increases in the number of women employed in the resource

development area?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. In 2006 there were about 3 per

cent women in the trades. We are at 10 per cent now. We are not where we want to

be, but it has increased 7 per cent over six years. It is progress.

Requiring these women employment plans are critical.

We do not tell them how they have to do it; we just tell them that they have to

do it. Companies have been very creative. I have to commend the companies, the

Resource Development Corporation, the group that represents the unions at Vale

Inco, for every single hour worked at the Vale site, and they are at a peak now

of 3,500 staff, twenty cents for every hour worked is put into a fund that goes

to training women and hiring women.

MS ROGERS: That is great.

MS JOHNSON: They trained sixty-five last year. We

have twelve ready for September not we, they. What they are doing now is going

right into the Grade 12 classroom and recruiting the women right out of Grade

MS ROGERS: Great.

One of the problems that I often hear is from women

who are looking for their apprenticeship. What is the Women's Policy Office

doing about that?

MS JOHNSON: We certainly support AES and the

budget they announced. I think it was $9.1 million they announced for

apprentices this year. Again, with our women employment plans it is where we are

headed in terms of requiring female apprentices to be hired in the first,

second, third, and fourth years.

We support the Women in Resource Development, $1

million we provide to them. They match up apprentices with employers. Of course

the wage subsidy, they handle a lot of the wage subsidy which is done through

AES. They fund 90 per cent of the wages for a first year female apprentice, 80

per cent for second year, and 60 per cent for years three and four, up to a

maximum of $14 an hour.

MS ROGERS: What is the uptake like on the program?

MS JOHNSON: They matched 172 female tradespeople

with jobs, and the uptake on the wage subsidy is full uptake. That is why in the

Budget the minister announced increases for that, because there is full uptake.

I saw the number somewhere from my speech last week of

how many women availed of that last year. Sixty-five seems to ring a bell it

is forty-two. It is to continue with twenty-two who were previously on the wage

subsidy last year, and twenty new ones. Again, this is all AES information, but

we work closely with them and do whatever we can to advance the women.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MS MACLELLAN: When we are negotiating with these

companies on women's employment plans, companies like Vale are very supportive.

They have achieved targets for women through all phases of their project but

they have been very proud to tell us that they have, in terms of apprentices 7

per cent are women, which is what has been available in the workforce over the

past. We are seeing employers step up, too. So that is good.

MS ROGERS: Great.

Thank you.

MS JOHNSON: They are also saying they want more

women because they are finding that the women no offence to the men listening

or in the room but they said in their experience the women have been gentler

on the equipment. So maintenance costs have decreased. It is just incredible.

They would really like to hire more women. It is just the availability of women

apprentices for certain trades is not there, but that is where we really need to

work now and make companies provide scholarships, training opportunities,

whatever. We are not going to tell them what to do, just do it.

MS ROGERS: Yes. Yet, in some areas it is amazing

still the resistance to hire women in apprenticeship positions. The number of

women that I come across who say, I cannot get a position.

MS JOHNSON: Yes. Well, certainly refer them to the

WRDC.

MS ROGERS: The WRDC is great.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, they are.

I think you are going to see a change in that

resistance because from what I hear of the companies now, they brag about the

fact they have this many women. It is almost a little competitive thing that is

starting. So, hey, whatever, we will take it.

MS ROGERS: There is a skill shortage, right?

MS JOHNSON: Yes.

MS ROGERS: It is like Rosie the Riveter during the

Second World War.

MS JOHNSON: I spoke to the President of IOC for

Canada, Zoe Yujnovich. She brags about the fact that 50 per cent of her

executives are women and nobody else can come close.

MS ROGERS: Great.

By March 31, 2012, the Women's Policy Office will have

updated its family-friendly policies and practices guide.

MS JOHNSON: That is still in progress, but being

worked on.

MS ROGERS: What is that?

MS JOHNSON: Go ahead.

MS MACLELLAN: What we are interested in doing is

looking at some of the best practices so we can share that with the employers

when we are doing our women's employment plans. Because part of the requirement

is not just setting the targets by occupational category, but it is making sure

that the environment is conducive for retaining the women.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS MACLELLAN: What we like to do is be able to say

these are some best practices about family friendly, so how are you going to

deal with women who are on your workplace and how are you doing your scheduling

in terms of what we find best practices are sometimes the best way to go in

terms of trying to present that.

MS ROGERS: Great.

MS JOHNSON: In addition to that, not only do we

set targets in our women employment equity plan but we also require them to have

friendly atmospheres for women as well. I remember when I did my first degree in

forest engineering and I worked in Prince George. It was way up North in a camp

and we had to shower at a certain time of the day because there were no female

showers. Those types of things, we build into the women employment plans too.

Having separate bathrooms for women goes a long way. Things like that, that is

just one example, but you have to build that in there.

MS ROGERS: Great.

By March 31, 2012, the Women's Policy will have

increased Aboriginal women's capacity to demonstrate leadership on matters of

justice, health, education, training, business employment, violence prevention

and poverty reduction.

MS JOHNSON: Yes, and we did a lot of those

sessions last year and then there is an increase in the Budget this year of

$125,000 for this year.

MS ROGERS: That is to do sessions with Aboriginal

leaders?

MS JOHNSON: That would be the Inuit capacity. Then

under our Aboriginal we have the annual Aboriginal conference and every year

there is a different theme. This year was culture. Every year there would be a

different theme and that is to increase capacity as well.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

Back to the best practices guide, when do you see that

being completed?

MS JOHNSON: The family one?

MS ROGERS: Yes, family-friendly policies.

MS JOHNSON: It will be completed in this fiscal

year.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

The Women's Policy Office will have developed an

innovative technology plan of action to inform decision making and work of the

government, business, and community partners to advance the status of women.

MS JOHNSON: Go ahead.

MS MACLELLAN: Well, we are very interested in

young girls in terms of their vulnerability. It is just another vehicle by which

violence is perpetrated. We set a goal to do some training around some of the

innovative practices with respect to technology. We have also started to look at

how we can do our work better by using technology.

Information on the status of women is really

important. As you know, it covers everything in life. We are trying to look at

how we could perhaps use the technology in a way to help our women's groups and

to help those whether there is industry. We have two staff assigned and we are

having discussions on it. We have not come to any conclusions about what we can

MS JOHNSON:

We are also doing the piece of work with the Atlantic FPTs

girls . We will be hosting Atlantic ministers in September is the date right

now, and we will be launching at that time the outcome of that work that we have

done with the Atlantic partner provinces.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

In terms of your role of policy analysis and advisory,

can you talk to me a little bit about the issue of women and housing? We know

that with a lot of consultations with the Poverty Reduction Strategy and some of

the community consultations that housing was one of the main issues affordable

housing, predominantly as it affects women. Can you talk to me a little bit

about that?

MS JOHNSON: We have certainly worked with the

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation and feed into the gender analysis

piece. It is a huge component that goes into housing. We certainly keep an eye

on that. It would be outside of my mandate to speak on housing. Those Estimates

are tonight.

MS ROGERS: No, except in terms of what do you see

as some of the issues or the problems facing women in the area of housing in the

Province? What is your work that you are doing then with Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing?

MS JOHNSON: It is more of an enabling role that we

do with our centres that we have the eight centres that we have and if there

are consultations ongoing about housing, we certainly make them aware that it is

ongoing and encourage them to participate. So it would be more of an enabling

and awareness piece that we do with the groups so that they get out there on

these issues.

MS ROGERS: I guess when we look at the Violence

Prevention Initiative, which is great, that the department has played and then

also in non-traditional work for women as well, that you have a real handle on

what the problem is, what some of the challenges are, what you would like to see

happen and some of the directions, so you have taken initiatives in that.

When we look at some of the areas, you say, "In

particular, this office participates in work associated with poverty reduction,

aging and seniors, disability, affordable housing, justice, child care, youth

attraction and retention, the volunteer sector as well as health issues of

importance to women."

I am just wondering where you are with housing. What

is the housing problem? Are you undergoing any initiatives to encourage

government to address, as you have with other areas?

MS JOHNSON: We have an advisory role, but the

reason why we are so in depth with the Violence Prevention Initiative is because

we are the lead department on the Violence Prevention Initiative.

Whereas AES

would be the lead on poverty and Minister Hedderson would be the lead on

housing, so it would be best to speak to him. We would not have any specific

initiatives to that. We do for violence prevention because that falls under our

mandate, but we certainly advise and do the gender analysis piece. We are aware

of the issues, but it is for that minister to speak to them.

MS ROGERS: Yes, I understand.

In terms of your policy analysis and your advisement,

what do you see as some of the challenges, for instance, in affordable housing

in terms of as it relates to women?

MS JOHNSON: Well, the challenges as you know

there are challenges. In Labrador, there are challenges; we heard that. Single

mothers, there are difficulties. Again, there are a suite of programs in the

Newfoundland and Labrador Housing division to deal with that. I would not speak

to those.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

What do you feel are some of the problems that are

facing women in terms of the area of justice? Again, in your capacity as policy

analysis and advisory because I assume that you will look at every government

department, every government program, through the lens of the Status of Women.

So are there some challenges there in justice?

MS JOHNSON: Yes. I am not trying to hold anything

back other than that Minister of Justice has a responsibility and a mandate for

Justice. If I look at AES and people trying to get into the workforce, a barrier

for them could be child care, but that minister does not speak to child care. I

do.

We are certainly aware of the justice issues. We sit

on the gender and justice commit

Document details

Collection	Newfoundland and Labrador — Committees
Citation	2012-05-09
Type	committee
Volume / chapter	committees_standingcommittees_socialservices_ga47_2012-05-09_ssc-cyfs_.htm
Language	en
Format	html
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9ae55e3f6acd513c0bf30fee9785476cb778bc5e

Source file is stored in the law ingest library (html).