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September 29, 2016

41st Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2016-Sep-29 (PDF)

L010 - Thu 29 Sep 2016 / Jeu 29 sep 2016

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Thursday 29 September 2016 Jeudi 29 septembre 2016

Orders of the Day

Ontario Rebate for Electricity Consumers Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la remise de l’Ontario pour les consommateurs d’électricité

Election Finances Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne le financement électoral

Introduction of Visitors

Wearing of carnations

Oral Questions

Energy policies

Energy policies

Privatization of public assets

Privatization of public assets

Tabling of public accounts

Hydro rates

Curriculum

Fiscal accountability

Ontario Energy Board

Infrastructure program funding

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Social assistance

Government services

Physiotherapy services

Hospital funding

Visitor

Deferred Votes

Ontario Rebate for Electricity Consumers Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la remise de l’Ontario pour les consommateurs d’électricité

Introduction of Visitors

Members’ Statements

Hospice care

Mason Macri

Multiple sclerosis

Highway improvement

Abe Oudshoorn

Antonio Sousa

Rosh Hashanah

Minimum wage

Silver Creek Public School

Introduction of Bills

All Families Are Equal Act (Parentage and Related Registrations Statute Law Amendment), 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur l’égalité de toutes les familles (modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne la filiation et les enregistrements connexes)

Highway Traffic Amendment Act (Helmet Exemption for Sikh Motorcyclists), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant le Code de la route (exemption de l’obligation de port du casque pour les motocyclistes sikhs)

Human Rights Code Amendment Act (Genetic Characteristics), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant le Code des droits de la personne (caractéristiques génétiques)

Petitions

Hydro rates

Health care funding

Climate change

Hydro rates

Privatization of public assets

Ice machines

Natural gas

Disaster relief

Health care funding

Disaster relief

Hydro rates

Employment standards

Autism treatment

Private Members’ Public Business

End Age Discrimination Against Stroke Recovery Patients Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 visant à mettre fin à la discrimination fondée sur l’âge envers les malades se rétablissant d’un accident vasculaire cérébral

Ministry of Community and Social Services Amendment Act (Social Assistance Research Commission), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le ministère des Services sociaux et communautaires (Commission de recherche sur l’aide sociale)

Ticket Speculation Amendment Act (Purchase and Sale Requirements), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le trafic des billets de spectacle (exigences relatives à l’achat et à la vente des billets)

End Age Discrimination Against Stroke Recovery Patients Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 visant à mettre fin à la discrimination fondée sur l’âge envers les malades se rétablissant d’un accident vasculaire cérébral

Ministry of Community and Social Services Amendment Act (Social Assistance Research Commission), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le ministère des Services sociaux et communautaires (Commission de recherche sur l’aide sociale)

Ticket Speculation Amendment Act (Purchase and Sale Requirements), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le trafic des billets de spectacle (exigences relatives à l’achat et à la vente des billets)

Ministry of Community and Social Services Amendment Act (Social Assistance Research Commission), 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant la

Loi sur le ministère des Services sociaux et communautaires (Commission de recherche sur l’aide sociale)

Private members’ public business

Visitors

Flooding in Windsor and Tecumseh

Orders of the Day

Promoting Affordable Housing Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la promotion du logement abordable

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Ontario Rebate for Electricity Consumers Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 sur la remise de l’Ontario pour les consommateurs d’électricité

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 26, 2016, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 13,

An Act in respect of the cost of electricity / Projet de loi 13, Loi concernant le coût de l’électricité.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Pursuant to the order of the House dated September 28, 2016, I am now required to put the question. Mr. Thibeault has moved second reading of Bill 13,

An Act in respect of the cost of electricity. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour, say “aye.”

All those opposed, say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

It’s a deferred vote.

Second reading vote deferred.

Election Finances Statute Law Amendment Act, 2016 / Loi de 2016 modifiant des lois en ce qui concerne le financement électoral

Resuming the debate adjourned on September 28, 2016, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 2,

An Act to amend various statutes with respect to election matters / Projet de loi 2, Loi visant à modifier diverses lois en ce qui a trait à des questions concernant les élections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: We’re here to talk for the next 20 minutes about Bill 2, but I’m more interested in—rather than calling it the election finances act, we could probably quite easily call it the campaign finance scandal. That’s what it really is. This is all about the Liberals being caught yet again in a campaign finance scandal. But, Speaker, let me tell you—we’ve travelled all over Ontario this summer, and I can tell you two words: Fairness matters. People in Ontario want fairness. That’s all that really counts at the end of the day. And right now, there’s nothing fair about the system. There’s absolutely nothing fair about what’s going on.

The Liberals are caught yet again—that’s why we’re standing here—in a campaign finance scandal. This is in addition to the five OPP investigations that are going on in Ontario. Now we have yet another scandal. This is above and beyond the gas plants scandal that will go to trial in September 2017. This is above and beyond the Ornge helicopter scandal. We’re still waiting for the conclusion of that, some resolution to that tragic and financial scandal as well. This is in addition to the two alleged bribery scandals in Sudbury, which will come to some conclusion in the near future as well, we hope.

This is in addition but actually more to do with the OPP investigation into the wind turbine scandal involving Trillium and deleted files. This latest campaign finance scandal is in addition to all of those.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the Minister of Research and Innovation.

Hon. Reza Moridi: Point of order: I wonder why the debate of the member opposite has nothing to do with the subject matter of Bill 2.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to remind the member that we need to stay focused on the debate before us. Just be mindful of the debate.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you very much, Speaker. We are in the middle—we are seized with a campaign finance scandal, so I felt it was equally tied in to be able to talk about the other five scandals that are ongoing, because there are OPP investigations.

Let’s go back to how nefarious this actually is. This started quite a while ago. This started with the Liberal Party and their many, many fundraisers that are tied in to the contracts that only they as a government can award. So that’s why we’re here. They got caught again.

This time it would appear that there is what we call a pay-to-play. If you pay—the Liberal Party, that is, their election coffers—you get to play with Ontario taxpayer money with contracts. That’s what we’re here for. There are many fundraisers but only one party can reward the people, and that is the Liberal Party. And they’ve been pretty darn good at their rewarding, I must tell you.

For instance, as we’ve seen quite recently in the Green Energy Act, we’ve got 30 companies—30—that were awarded the lucrative wind and solar contracts. We’re talking billions here. Of course, the Auditor General herself told us that we have paid $9.2 billion for the same amount of green energy under the old contracts.

We’re not debating the merits of green energy. That is going to happen. It’s the $9.2 billion more they paid for the same amount, and they paid that to the 30 donors to the Liberal Party who donated $1.3 million. That’s what we’re here for. We’re seized with a campaign finance scandal. They were paid $1.3 million in fundraising and doled out billions of contracts only to those people—only to those people. That’s what we’re here for. We’re here to talk about that.

We’re here to talk about the fact that when the Liberals privatized Hydro One, when they had a fire sale sell-off of Hydro One, they did the same thing. They had fundraisers with the very people who were going to be doing the sale. This is heinous. Quite frankly, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m somebody who believes in fairness. I would only imagine that if this was a corporation trying to do that, we’d be seeing it very differently. We wouldn’t be standing here in the chambers of the Legislature. We could very well be standing in a court of law, because something that has occurred is not what’s fair to the people of Ontario.

These Liberal MPPs and cabinet ministers had orders from the Premier—orders—of the magnitude of the money they are to bring in. This one had an order to bring in $500,000. That one had an order to bring in $300,000. The only way they can do it, according to them, is to go after the very people they were going to reward with contracts. That’s why we have a campaign finance scandal. I am quite certain that if this were an Enron-type company, we’d be hearing about this in a trial, not here in the Legislature.

People want fairness, and they cannot get fairness from this government. That’s why we end up with things like the highest energy costs in North America: because we are awarding contracts to people who are donating to the Liberal Party.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I know there have been some colourful words from the member leading the debate this morning. I want to remind the government side that—

Hon. Dipika Damerla: Misrepresentation.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): We need to be respectful. I know the member is leading the debate this morning. I just want to remind the government side to be respectful. The shouting down is not respectful. I just want to remind the government side to be respectful.

I return back to the member from Nipissing.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you, Speaker. I realized you were standing to speak. I had a hard time hearing you because they were speaking over you, but I did hear a very unparliamentary word coming from that other side. I would appreciate it if that member would stand and apologize for that.

Interjection: Sit down.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: No, I don’t have to sit down.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to ask the member who made the comment—I, as the Speaker, didn’t hear it. If she wishes to withdraw it, she’s welcome to do that. Anybody is allowed to withdraw their statements, and I’m just giving you an opportunity.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: I withdraw.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate your indulgence in that. Obviously, the fact that we’ve talked about the fact that we have the highest energy rates in North America yet again brought comments from the Liberal government.

We can continue—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the Minister of Research and Innovation.

Hon. Reza Moridi: Madam Speaker, I don’t understand. The energy price has nothing to do with the subject matter of this bill.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you for that.

I’ll return to the member from Nipissing and just remind him to stay focused on the bill.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Let me tell you how that ties in, Speaker. The fact that we’ve got a government that is awarding billions of dollars in energy contracts to companies that gave the Liberal Party $1.3 million—this is the very point, I suggest to the minister. This is the very point.

We are alleging that they are tied in together. We are paying the highest energy rates in North America because the Liberal government took money from 30 energy companies and then gave them energy contracts that were higher than anywhere else. They overpaid. They gave them rich subsidies. There was a quid pro quo here: “We’ll give you rich contracts that are higher than anywhere else in the world if you give us $1.3 million.” That’s what I’m saying. That’s why I can talk about the highest energy rates in North America.

They’re high because they took money to—they allowed $1.3 million in donations to affect their decision on how to award these rich contracts. I’m talking about the $9.2 billion—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I already reminded the member from Nipissing to be very careful with his choice of words. What I just heard is impugning motive, so you will need to withdraw.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Withdraw, Speaker.

They have charged the highest electricity rates in North America because they earned $1.3 million in fundraising revenue and awarded an additional—I’m not talking about how much the contracts were. They are multi-multi-billions. The Auditor General told us it was an additional—a further—$9.2 billion for something we could have got without paying that. That’s why we’re talking about energy here in the middle of a Liberal campaign finance scandal. Because that’s what this is, Speaker. This is heinous and scandalous.

What’s even worse is the fact that if you go back to 2004 in the government’s proposed amendments to—I’m sorry; if you go back to 2015 and look at the government’s proposed amendments to the advertising act of 2004—in 2014, they started changing the rules so that they can fit in their new advertising. This is their new way to usurp the rules here, Speaker. They are talking about the fact that nobody can raise funds anymore to do campaign advertising, but according to the Auditor General’s report, they will have the ability to use government funds to do their advertising.

That’s indeed what the auditor warned in 2015, and now that’s indeed what has actually happened in 2016, only two years later, when they put their plan in.

The auditor: “Proposed Ontario Election Ad Rules Could Give Liberals Advantage.” The Auditor General is on to them. She figured this out a long time ago, what this government is all about.

“Ontario Liberal Government Promotes Federal CPP with Taxpayer-Funded Ads.” We’re on to them. We’ve figured out their game. When they can’t play by the rules—because, quite frankly, they rarely play by the rules. Now they’re here trying to distract all of us, in the middle of this campaign finance scandal, with a new set of rules, as if they have some kind of a halo around them. But even they found ways to get around their own upcoming rules. Of course, we’ve now learned that the Premier has said her ministers won’t be attending these. We now know they are, of course, still continuing to attend fundraisers. We know that. We see those advertised.

To try to get around the fact that only the government can have fundraisers and award contracts—nobody else on this side can have a fundraiser and award a contract, but we know they do. They received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the same people they paid, the government paid, to do the fire sale of Hydro One. We know that. There’s a pattern here: You pay us in donations, and we give you a contract. “You pay us $1.3 million, and we give you billions of dollars in contracts.” So there’s definitely a linkage here, Speaker, and I say to you, if this were a court of law, there may be a very, very—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I already reminded the member that you have to be very careful with your choice of words. It’s not the first time I said it this morning. Again, you’re making allegations and you’re also imputing, potentially, motives. So please withdraw before we continue.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: I withdraw, Speaker, and I thank you for your clarification.

I know they really don’t like to hear these wounds that have come to the surface, but I can tell you—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order. Okay, guys. We need to be respectful in this chamber. I’ve already said it several times to the government side. Next time, I’m going to do a warning. I already warned a number of times. Remember, today it’s one warning and then you’ll be named.

I’m going to return to the member from Nipissing.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you, Speaker. It’s really apparent that when we talk about the Liberal campaign finance scandal, it gets under their skin. They’ve been caught again. Let’s face it. It has been exposed. It has been exposed for everybody in the public to realize, to acknowledge, to understand that they got caught yet again.

One of their ways around these new rules that they’re putting in to try to acknowledge the fact that they got caught is to now send their chiefs of staff. “Look at us. We’re clean,” they say. “We are not attending these fundraisers.” So they send their chiefs of staff, who have the same power to award contracts. That’s the difference when it comes to fundraising. We all need to fundraise. We all need that. But the government are the only people in this chamber who can award contracts, and that’s what it appears they have done.

Again, $1.3 million in donations; billions of dollars, according to the Auditor General, overpaid for wind and solar contracts. So 30 people donate; there are 30 contracts that are let. It’s as clear as a bell ringing here, what’s happening.

Now they’re sending their chiefs of staff. That’s very serious, Speaker. That’s very, very serious, that they’re trying to continue to do what they’ve been doing all along, and this time hopefully not get caught. But they got caught even doing that. You know—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the Minister of Housing.

Hon. Chris Ballard: Madam Speaker, under standing order 23—I could pick a whole number—let’s say 23(h), (i), or (k)—I think this member needs to be reminded of his duties in the House.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to overrule the point of order. I’m going to return to the member from Nipissing. I know you only have two minutes. Please be mindful of your choice of words.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you for overruling him, Speaker. I appreciate that.

As I said when I first started, two words: Fairness matters. That’s why we on this side get so passionate about this. They have done nothing that’s fair. That’s all people want. They go to work in the morning. They do their job. They pay their taxes. They live a good life—or they try to, anyway, here in Ontario. But overall, they hear the news, the “scandal” word and the “OPP” word, and they get a terrible feeling that all is not fair. That’s why we’re here today: because fairness matters and all is not fair in this chamber. All is not fair.

I think that’s what the people genuinely want: to know that there’s fairness going to happen. There’s nothing fair about what’s happening. This is heinous. This is absolutely terrible. This scandal has gone unaddressed for quite a while.

Interjections.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: The scandal has gone on quite a while, especially from some of the ministers who are piping up. They’re the ones who got caught. They have a quota, Speaker, of how much money they have to raise. There’s a quota system. We’ve seen it advertised—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the Minister of Housing.

Hon. Chris Ballard: Madam Speaker, as a minister, I have no quota, quite frankly. My reputation is being impugned—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): This is not a point of order. I’m going to return to the member for Nipissing to finish his debate.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you, Speaker. We’ve seen the quota system widely publicized in many media systems. I do thank the media. They dug deep into this. The Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail—they both dug very deep into this. It really is like a root canal, and, according to this government, it’s about as painful as a root canal to them. It really, truly is.

What the Toronto Star and the Globe and Mail have exposed is that they fundraise on this side and then it appears that they award contracts to the same people they fundraise from. That’s the distinction here, Speaker. That’s why there is a Liberal campaign finance scandal going on: because they got caught doing this. Only they are the ones who are allowed to reward donors with these lucrative contracts. Nobody has rewarded them better than this party.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

M me France Gélinas: It was very interesting to listen to the member from Nipissing because we are here today discussing changes to the way we do fundraising for elections under the Election Finances Statute Law Amendment Act. Why? Well, this did not come out of thin air. It came out because people rebelled. When people found out that companies had to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a rubber-chicken dinner with the minister who was in charge of signing the contracts, they rebelled. Why?

Because there are some entrepreneurs out there and some not-for-profit organizations that did not have tens of thousands to attend a rubber-chicken dinner with the minister, and they felt left out. They knew that if they did not pay up to the Liberal government fundraiser, their chances of getting a large renewable contract from the energy minister was zero.

So they came to see us. I’m sure they went to see the PC Party as well, and they told them, “This is wrong. We have a strong, large renewable project. We think that we should have as good a chance as any to get selected.” But if they did not take

part in those Liberal Party fundraisers, they knew that they were at the back of the line. So the people rebelled, and what did we get? We got this new Election Finances Statute Law Amendment Act.

I was hopeful that this new bill was going to achieve the goal of making the election fairer. Unfortunately, the bill as it stands now is not going to do this. It still has huge loopholes that favour whoever is in power, which happens to be the Liberal Party right now. So the reason for the bill is really yucky. It was because people were really not happy with what was going on with the Liberals, and they’re not happy with the bill.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Hon. Chris Ballard: I am delighted to be able to speak for a couple of minutes to this bill. I will do my best to stay on the topic and not impugn anyone’s motives or behaviour.

I wanted to talk for a minute or two about contribution rates. I’m eager to hear what the opposition parties think about those. This is one thing that the committee conducting public hearings across Ontario heard all summer long, and I want to thank the members of that committee for the time they spent during the summer travelling the width and breadth of Ontario listening to organizations and individuals.

One thing they heard, and one thing they told me that they heard all summer long, was that we need to get big money out of politics. Right now, as the rules stand—rules that we all abide by and we all follow—an individual can donate over $33,000 in an election year. We have been clear that donations do not influence policy decisions, and I’m also certain that donations do not influence questions or private members’ bills asked by any party. But the bill aims to remove even the perception of influence over policy decisions, because we know that oftentimes perception is the reality.

That’s why Bill 2 will lower the maximum contribution amount from over $33,250 to just $3,600. That’s a 90% reduction in donations. Now, some have called for the complete removal of donations from our election system altogether, but I think that would be going too far.

I’ll leave my comments there for now.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Mr. Todd Smith: I am pleased to bring some remarks on the 20-minute speech by my colleague from Nipissing. He was up and down in his chair an awful lot as members of the government caucus were popping up and down. It was like a game of whack-a-mole over there this morning.

I noticed a new strategy, though, when it comes to this latest scandal that we’ve seen this morning. The member from Nipissing is laying out the facts that have been in the newspapers and in the media now for months and months about this latest scandal that has been going on with this government. There seems to be a new strategy, though, that the Liberal government feels that if they stand up with this righteous indignation, maybe they’ll scare the members of the opposition bench from continuing to point out the facts in this case. The facts speak for themselves, Madam Speaker. The facts speak for themselves.

All you have to do is look at the renewable energy file. It’s the biggest crisis in Ontario right now, the price of electricity. The Auditor General says that the biggest reason for the increase is generation and the cost of generation. Then you look at the fact that we paid $9.2 billion more for electricity than we should have, and you look at the new contracts that have been added to the grid, and they come from renewable energy companies that donated $1.3 million to the Liberal Party. Over 99% of the new contracts were awarded to companies who paid to play with the Liberal government.

Those are the facts. I know that if they stand up and yell and scream and say that you’re invoking some kind of wrongdoing—we’re pointing out the facts. The facts are that this happened in Ontario. They got caught by the media. That’s what led to this latest scandal, and that’s the genesis of Bill 2 that we have before us today.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: It is a pleasure for me to rise today, on behalf of the people I represent in London West, to participate in this rather extraordinary debate that has been unfolding in this Legislature over this last week.

It feels something like a parallel universe that we have been having here. I just heard the Minister of Housing talk about the people who participated in this debate over the summer and who talked about their desire to get big money out of politics.

We know that this whole bill was prompted by the disclosures and revelations in the media about cash-for-access fundraisers that the Liberals used to build their election coffers for the next election. Under Premier Wynne, they raised almost $20 million between 2013 and 2015, and yet the bill that we are debating this morning is silent on cash-for-access fundraisers—not a word about cash-for-access fundraisers in this legislation.

We know that there was a news release that was issued while the committee was debating amendments to this legislation. But in this place, we don’t debate news releases; we debate legislation. And this legislation includes nothing about cash-for access fundraisers, which was the whole impetus for us to be having this discussion in the first place.

The legislation does include, however, prohibitions on public interest groups from raising legitimate questions of public policy during election campaigns while allowing the government to advertise unlimitedly about what it is doing or its claims to advance policy discourse. It’s shameful what this legislation does to chill public involvement in democracy. This is unfair and a disservice to all of us.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I return to the member from Nipissing to wrap up.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Thank you very much for the opportunity to wrap up. I do want to thank the speakers from Nickel Belt, Newmarket–Aurora, Prince Edward–Hastings and London West.

Fairness matters, and what we are not seeing today is fairness. We are seized with yet another Liberal scandal. This time it’s the Liberal campaign finance scandal. We’re here because they got caught yet again. I’ve only been here five years, but we’ve spent a tremendous amount of those five years embroiled in one scandal after another.

The member from Newmarket–Aurora said to us “that donations do not influence policy decisions.” Well, then, how on earth did this Liberal government spend $9.2 billion more for the same amount of energy contracts as under the old contract system? The Auditor General told us that. We could have bought, had we stayed with the old contracts, the same amount of renewable energy for $9.2 billion less. He may continue to say that donations do not influence policy decisions, but there’s an appearance in the evidence that $1.3 million was collected by the party, and an additional—a further—extra cost of $9.2 billion was paid out for renewable contracts.

The member from Prince Edward–Hastings said it best: You can’t get around this. It’s so painfully obvious. It pains me to stand here—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you.

Pursuant to standing order 47(c), I’m now required to interrupt the proceedings and announce that there have been six and a half hours of debate on the motion for second reading of this bill. This debate will therefore be deemed adjourned unless the government House leader specifies otherwise.

Hon. Dipika Damerla: Speaker, we’d like to continue debate.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Further debate? I recognize the member from Niagara Falls.

Applause.

Mr. Wayne Gates: Thank you, Percy.

Madam Speaker, thank you allowing me to rise today on behalf of the residents of Niagara Falls, Niagara-on-the-Lake and Fort Erie. I am honoured any time I can rise in this House and speak for the residents of my community.

I’m honoured because I am talking about something as important as political financing laws here in Ontario. The way we control fundraising, financing candidates and policing donations to parties in this province is an integral part of the outcome of all our elections. Since day one in this Legislature, I have committed to ensuring every resident in my riding has their voice heard, not just a certain group of interests or voters.

So many of my colleagues have raised concerns over the amendments to this bill. I know that so many residents came out to have their voices heard when the committee went on the road for input before the bill was killed when the Liberals decided to shut down the Legislature. Many of my colleagues have spoken about the issue of amendments. We are wondering why the recommendations made at committee were not included in Bill 2.

Today, I’m going to speak to the sections currently in the bill, because they already highlight the major problems with the amendments process on this bill. I hope sincerely that when we are addressing these issues, the government is listening. I hope the government will listen to what I and my fellow members in this chamber have to say, because it’s too important to ignore.

During the debates around the first version of the bill, Bill 201, the Premier did not seem to want to listen to the opposition parties, but I hope that she has changed her mind on this issue. You see, we know what happens when we don’t get this right. We know exactly what happens when only a handful of rich donors get to control the political system. Once politics becomes too expensive, the average person just stays home or they get turned off. We have a duty to represent everyone in Ontario and ensure their voice is heard right here in this Legislature.

Let me address the issue of corporate and union donations first. Yes, this bill bans corporate and union donations, which the NDP has supported for a very long time. And why wouldn’t we support that? We have always felt that large lobby groups shouldn’t be able to pay to see and talk to the government. We have always believed that it is the people of this province, not big corporations, who should be able to influence government decisions, though I point out that there is a difference here.

When I was president of my local union, any political donation had to be passed through the membership. Madam Speaker, I want you to understand that. We had a membership meeting. They would question the leadership on where the money was going. It was their hard-earned union dues—dollars. It had to be approved by the membership before it could go to any party, whether it was the NDP—it was never the Conservatives—or the Liberal Party. But it was passed by the membership, and that speaks volumes for the labour movement.

That meant that people who contributed their money to the union had a vote on what to do with their money. It’s not the same way with corporations. But either way, the NDP has always believed in the power of individual donations. We have already proven this with our fundraising. Between 2002 and 2014, the Liberal government received just over 50% of its money from corporations here in Ontario. On the other hand, during that same period of time the NDP received 79% of its donations from individual donors. Do you see the difference?

Individual donations and corporations: There’s a big difference between what a CEO of a major corporation wants and what someone who works for a living, who donates what they can when they’re able to, wants. There’s a major difference between someone saving up to donate to a political party and a CEO who is just moving money from their corporation.

Individual donors are people who believe in a political message, and they play their small part to try to make it a reality. Individuals have always donated more than corporations to the NDP.

Big money should never rule politics—never. The rich and famous should not be able to buy politicians. When I see that between 2002 and 2014 the Liberal Party raised 50% of its funds from corporations, the Conservative Party raised 46% of their money from corporations and the NDP raised 79% of its money from individual donors, it becomes clear who is working for the people of Ontario.

We are not a party that is bought and paid for by big corporations. By removing donations from the large shareholder, we give the power back to ordinary people of the province of Ontario—quite frankly, where the power should be. How could anyone disagree with that? The largest and really the only stakeholder the government should be beholden to are the residents of the province of Ontario.

Madam Speaker, as some of you may know—I know my good friend from St. Catharines knows this—I did not grow up wealthy. My family had a lot of things to worry about, and figuring out how to donate to a politician was one of them. That taught me a lesson because even though my family couldn’t donate, it didn’t mean our voices didn’t matter. It didn’t mean I should abandon the political system and assume that I couldn’t make a difference. I am living proof that you don’t need to be a big political donor to make a difference, and I hope that is a lesson we pass on to the next generation of politicians.

It taught me a lesson that I saw in my practice yesterday when I sat down with Fran and Laura from my riding of Niagara Falls, where they live in Chippawa. Fran and Laura are incredible people who are living a modest life. They’re doing everything they can to live with their hydro bills, but they just can’t cover the bills anymore. The hydro prices are, quite frankly, disgusting and unnecessary.

When I was sitting down with them, they opened up their latest hydro bill that had arrived about 10 minutes before we got there—a bill that would cost them $677 from the hydro company. They had done everything they could to conserve energy, and yet their—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): The member needs to remember that when I stand, you need to sit.

I just need to remind the member from Niagara Falls that we stay on topic, and the topic is election finance reform, not electricity or Hydro One or anything like that. Stick to election reform.

Mr. Wayne Gates: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Do you think people who are struggling to pay their hydro bills can afford a Heritage Dinner for $1,600 a plate? I tied that back into hydro; I think that works. It flows pretty good.

When they can’t afford $1,600 a plate, does that mean that their voice doesn’t matter? Well, let me tell you something. Fran and Laura invited me into their home yesterday. They sat and talked with me, and with my leader Andrea Horwath, about what they do in our community, how they’ve lived there in Chippawa their entire lives and what a great place it is to live. Let me also tell you something else: If Fran and Laura want to sit with me and talk about our community, I prefer that they do that any day of the week instead of sitting with some CEO who thinks he can buy me with a big cheque.

Madam Speaker, the members in this House are the voice of the residents of Ontario, and we need to ensure that those voices are heard. Right now, I fear that Bill 2 does not ban the cash for fundraisers that got the Liberals in trouble in the first place. The residents of my beautiful riding of Niagara Falls have just as much right to meet with the minister as any wealthy donor does. The Premier is the Premier of the residents of Ontario, not just the ones who can pay. With that in mind, I have to say that it’s good to see the removal of donations from large corporations in the province of Ontario.

Madam Speaker, nothing less than the Toronto Star telling everyone that the government ministers had outrageous fundraising quotas started this government taking action on this issue. Imagine that: They were given a job of raising $200,000 to $300,000 from people that could talk to the government. So, for example—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I don’t know what you’ve got against unions.

So, for example, if you—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Okay. The member from Niagara Falls.

I just want to remind the government side—I already warned people. The next time I get up again, you will be warned. Okay? We need to have respectful conversation about this important debate.

The member from Niagara Falls.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I thought the minister was responsible for the energy portfolio here in Ontario. I thought the minister was responsible for taking meaningful action to lower people’s hydro bills so that 600,000 people in the province of Ontario aren’t in arrears. Then we find out that instead of doing that job, the minister had to worry about raising hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Just use some logic here. If you’re a minister and you’re behind in your fundraising quotas and you get approached by a company that has lots of money to give but attaches some strings, how might a minister catch up?

While you’re sitting there thinking about how a minister could catch up, there’s something else you’re not thinking about. You’re not thinking about how to lower people’s hydro bills. You’re not thinking about how to make life better for the people of our province. Instead, you’re thinking about how to make life better for the Liberal Party of Ontario.

That right there is a problem. Maybe the minister should spend some time listening to the businesses in Niagara Falls on how to lower hydro bills so they could bring hundreds of thousands of dollars into our communities.

When you look at that controversy that arose over the cash-to-see-your-minister fundraising scheme undertaken by the government, you would think that this would be a no-brainer. The people of Ontario discovered that the government was charging hundreds of thousands of dollars to see a minister, and they didn’t like it. I don’t think any of us like it. It makes sense to create a bill to remove that.

But then they seem to go further for no reason at all. They’re now talking—and I think this is important. I think we all can relate to this, those that want to listen. They’re now talking about banning MPPs from hosting barbecues or spaghetti dinners that charge $25 to $50 a ticket. Rather than focusing on how to eliminate the conflict of interest at the highest level of government, they’re looking at how to stop us from spending our summer at the backyards barbecuing. It’s ridiculous.

I have a question for this House that is very simple. Has any MPP in here really had anyone call their office and complain that a minister was being bought by a $50 ticket to a spaghetti dinner?

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Okay. Member from Niagara Falls, you need to withdraw that comment. You cannot use that unparliamentary language. You need to withdraw.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I withdraw. Sorry.

Okay, Madam Speaker. There’s a major difference between a barbecue in my backyard and a dinner fundraiser that brings in $2.5 million in one night. There’s a difference between 100 local people coming to play a local golf tournament at a local golf course and a CEO from an energy sector paying tens of thousands of dollars to sit down with the Minister of Energy for a private night. There’s a big difference.

That difference is particularly noticeable when those same people meeting with the energy minister or the Minister of Finance stand to make a profit from the fire sale of Hydro One. Those CEOs sit down with those ministers and expect a return on their money. They’re going into that night looking to get something out of it. At my golf tournament—I know you’re all interested in this—people there are hoping I shoot at least something close to par, and I couldn’t even do that.

Mrs. Gila Martow: On the first nine.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I didn’t get close to par on the first hole.

My point is that the people of Ontario aren’t dumb, and they aren’t unreasonable. My point is that the people of Ontario understand this. They understand the difference between a spaghetti dinner and a $1,500-a-plate dinner, even if the current government claims that it doesn’t see that difference.

This is a nice story that I know we’ll all like. The late, great MPP from Welland, Peter Kormos, was famous for the spaghetti dinners he held in his riding. They weren’t much at all; he held them all the time in Welland. Then we have stories of ministers being paid thousands to meet with rich stakeholders because of their quotas. So I ask the question: On the one hand, you get a local worker paying 30 bucks for a Peter Kormos pasta dinner, and on the other hand, you get a Bay Street lobbyist paying $10,000 to spend a night with a minister he’s trying to lobby.

Out of the two of them, who do you really believe was at risk of being influenced here? Who do you really think was letting money get in the way of their responsibility?

Interjection.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’ll let the minister listen to this. Who do we really think was letting money get in the way of their responsibility to serve the people of Ontario? Is it Peter getting 30 bucks from his neighbour Joe or is it the minister getting $10,000 from a lobbyist who represents a company making a bid to the minister? I’ll let you answer that on your own time.

Madam Speaker, I’ll tell you, the first time I ran for office was not an expensive affair. There were no $1,500 dinners, let alone a $2.5-million night. In fact, I was selling buttons out of my garage for $2. That’s right: We were selling them. People would come in and grab a button. They wanted to support us and we couldn’t let them go until they paid us to pay for the cost of printing the button. The people then had no illusions. The pasta dinner was a way to be involved with your local riding association or a political movement.

The buttons were a way to show support for a local union president running for office for the first time. It’s wildly different than what we’re hearing about in the minister’s office these days.

Let’s be serious here. Let’s seriously remove the influence of big money on politics. Let’s get back to what politics should be about, and quite frankly, that’s serving all the people of this great province.

There are quite a few more issues I’d like to address with this bill—and I can see I’m going to run out of time. Another

part is the

section that deals with third-party advertising. Yes, we agree that there needs to be constraint and regulations put on third-party advertising that stops it from getting out of control, but what the government has here goes far beyond that. Instead, it looks like they’re trying to stifle criticism about themselves all together. By banning third-party advertising, you’re also banning the right of regular citizens to get together and focus on a cause. You’re banning people from speaking out against what is wrong or standing up for what is right.

Interjections.

Mr. Wayne Gates: One great example of how this is—and I’ve got 30 seconds; I want you to please listen rather than yell—a problem was the parents fighting cuts to autism services. I think every member of this House, or at least on this side of the House, was moved by their incredible efforts. The ability of everyday moms and dads to get together and fight for their children was incredible, and I’m glad that we, in particular the member from Hamilton Mountain, were able to help them succeed. But what if the parents hadn’t won? What if the Liberal government continued to ram through cuts of essential services?

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Hon. Reza Moridi: It’s a pleasure to rise in this House and to speak to the comments made by the members of the opposition. Members of the opposition talk about fairness, but in reality, the things they say and the things they do—there’s a huge gap between the two. For example, the NDP invited the Premier of Alberta, Madam Notley, to come over here, and they invited oil companies to participate in a $10,000-a-ticket fundraiser. That is a thing all parties are doing, and now they are teaching us a lesson.

But the fact is that this Premier, this government, has taken the initiative to make a level playing field and to reduce the current number for individual donations to political parties, which in an election year is about $33,000. This Premier and this government are reducing this amount from $33,000 to $3,600. This is a 90% reduction in the amount of a donation a person or company can make to a political party.

As a result of this, all members of society, our province of Ontario, will have a chance to contribute to political parties; they will have a chance to contribute to candidates, to nominations and leaderships. That is the way this party, this government and the Premier are providing an opportunity for every member of this society to participate in the democratic process. That’s what we are doing. The members opposite, in their remarks, go off to so many other irrelevant conversations they are bringing to this conversation.

This is as simple as this: a 90% reduction in the maximum amount of contribution which every person can make to a political party or a candidate or a nomination candidate. That’s what we have been doing. That’s what we have been doing and that’s what it’s all about.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I think everybody is sort of skirting around the real issue here, and the real issue is selling access to government contracts. All you have—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): The member from Thornhill needs to withdraw.

Mrs. Gila Martow: I withdraw.

The real issue here is selling access to ministers—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order.

Mrs. Gila Martow: —selling access to government ministers who have the ability to sign—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to remind members: This is a very important debate. You need to be mindful of your choice of words. The member from Thornhill, you need to withdraw.

Mrs. Gila Martow: Withdraw. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Grant Crack: Point of order, Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): The member from Glengarry–Prescott–Russell.

Mr. Grant Crack: I think it’s tradition in this place that when the Speaker rises, every member in the House actually sits down. On two occasions, that just didn’t happen. I would ask all members—if you could remind them—to have a little bit of respect for the Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you. I return to the member from Thornhill.

Mrs. Gila Martow: Thank you very much. I’m surprised that you can tell when I’m standing or sitting, because I’m so short. Thank you for that reminder.

I think it’s very clear that the public understands what’s going on here. The public understands that ministers were very involved in fundraising. The public understands there were even quotas put on some of the ministers, and the public does understand that we need to fundraise to run our campaigns. But there has to be a limit. There has to be a line where it doesn’t cross the line, because otherwise the public loses respect for the entire process of what we’re trying to do here.

We’re all coming from our ridings, and we’re coming here to debate bills. We want to feel that we’re having input and we’re being respected for what we’re doing here. When that line is crossed in terms of how fundraising is done, we lose that respect. So I would remind the government that words are important—I agree that words are important—and how you fundraise is equally important.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Further questions and comments.

Miss Monique Taylor: I would like to congratulate the member from Niagara Falls on the work he put into this debate, knowing that New Democrats—we were hoping for change in the province, and again this Liberal government has let the people of Ontario down. This is not the government that Kathleen Wynne had promised she would be to the people of Ontario.

There are many changes within this bill, but there are still more changes to come, which we don’t even have the opportunity to debate here in this Legislature. The member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington had brought these concerns to the House earlier this week, and the member from Kitchener–Waterloo quite frankly agreed, talking about the fact that when we don’t have all of the facts in front of us and the government is going to be bringing in changes later on—after we’ve done the debate process—that causes concern.

It’s really unfortunate that the Liberal government had been asked to join The Agenda on Tuesday evening but they refused, not being able to defend their own bill that’s in front of them.

The Agenda will show tonight, with the member from Kitchener–Waterloo and the member from Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington. The Liberal government will not be a part of that show, because they are not willing to—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to remind the member from Hamilton Mountain to stay focused on the bill, not on a TV show. We’re debating this bill dealing with election reform. Thank you.

Miss Monique Taylor: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate the time that I’ve had to speak to this matter.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Questions and comments?

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: I’m pleased to rise today to discuss this bill. I have to say that I was pleased that the committee conducting public hearings on this subject met all summer long and travelled across the province. I was also really pleased that we did manage to have constructive debates on this subject with constituents.

What I’m not pleased about is that the opposition parties have contrived this slogan, “cash for access.” Now, let’s really unpack this language. What does it mean? What is being implied?

What the slogan means is that you can’t see your MPP or you can’t see a minister. But the fact is that everybody in this House knows that we constantly see constituents in our ridings and in this place, and constituents and stakeholders are always seeing ministers, having nothing to do with fundraisers. This happens all the time, and every member of those opposition parties knows that that’s the truth.

This bill aims to remove even the perception of influence over policy decisions. The opposition is upset because they have just as many fundraisers as we do. This is why Bill 2 will lower the maximum contribution amount, from $33,250 to just $3,600. That is a 90% reduction. We are responding to concerns. We are listening to the public.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I return to the member from Niagara Falls to wrap up this round of debate.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’m actually surprised at the last speaker trying to compare a golf tournament that I run to a $17,000 round table discussion with a minister—just saying.

I’d also like to address somebody from the Liberal Party who yelled out while I was speaking about union donations. I was very clear on union donations. We’re in favour of union donation bans. As a matter of fact, we were the first party to call for it, so there’s no confusion.

But what’s interesting about unions is, unlike corporations—corporations don’t have a board meeting and have a big discussion and then take it to their shareholders and vote on who they’re going to give money to. In the union movement, what they do is, they have a membership meeting, usually every month, and their members would come to a hall. They would be able to debate which party they think is going to speak on behalf of their best interests and make a decision on who they’re going to give their hard-earned union dues to. There’s a big difference when you allow the membership to vote. We were the first party—just to be clear—to call for union donation bans.

Today, 79% of all money I raise comes from individual donors. In the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party—because you’re both very close to the same—50% of all the money that you get comes from corporations. So if you want to have a level playing field, let’s take all the money you have raised over the last year with these meetings with ministers—right or wrong, you’ve met with them; you’ve raised millions and millions of dollars. Why don’t we level the playing field and start from scratch? What we’ll do is, we’ll donate all the money you got in those meetings to Project Share or a food bank. That would make sense.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Further debate?

Mr. Arthur Potts: I’ll be sharing the time we have remaining with the President of the Treasury Board.

I am absolutely delighted to have this opportunity to speak to this bill, primarily because I want to focus and think about some of the things that we’re hearing from the other side of the House. It is absolutely egregious that the member from Nipissing can come up with what I think are—our whip characterized it, and he’s been around a long time, as the worst political speech he’s ever heard in this House. Had he repeated half of what he said in this House outside of this House, there would be lawsuits up against him.

To continually repeat things that he fundamentally knows don’t represent the facts and to be warned and cautioned about it on a repeated basis and to repeat them again, to repeat things like we have the highest electrical rates in North America—we have said in this House and we’ve shown the facts on a repeated basis that that is just not true. That’s just absolutely—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order. I already reminded the members from all three parties that this needs to be respectful. I’m going to start warnings. The member from Prince Edward–Hastings: no more shouting. You’ve being warned.

The member from Beaches–East York

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you, Speaker. And then, the member for Thornhill, in her remarks—twice you had to stop her making those allegations in this House. You cautioned her once and she repeated it within seconds. If that’s not cause for a member to have to sit down and lose their time—Speaker, I’m not challenging your ruling. I very much appreciate the way you’re keeping order in this House. But it’s egregious.

Now, let’s be very clear. This whole concept of cash for access is a slogan. It is something that has been made up to draw attention to something which was never inappropriate. We are all playing by the same set of rules, and for the members opposite to be drawing this inference that people are happy with the things we are doing and that somehow is directly aligned to what we’re doing, again, is totally egregious.

What I worry about is, for instance, last week we debated a private member’s bill from the member from Huron–Bruce, with unanimous approval in this House. It related to the use of pesticides in the province of Ontario and the rules. She came up with the notion that we have to be a little bit more careful about: Do we have enough agrologists? I believe very sincerely that the member from Huron–Bruce thinks that she’s doing what is the right thing to do. I respect that in her.

But then, I get to realize—and I know—that she received an almost $1,000 contribution from CropLife. I wonder who CropLife is. They’re an organization, a third party, which is funded by all the pesticide companies. The bill she brought forward directly assists the pesticide companies who take issue with the regulations from here. So I wonder: Does she really believe in the intent of her private member’s bill—

Mr. Todd Smith: Point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the member from Prince Edward–Hastings.

Mr. Todd Smith: Speaker, the members of the government caucus were standing up over and over again against the fact that the member for Nipissing was allegedly impugning motive. What is the member for Beaches–East York doing? He needs to be called to order.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to let the member know that he’s stating the facts; he’s not imputing any motives. Facts are allowed in this chamber, as you already know.

I will return to Beaches–East York.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you, Speaker. I am stating the facts.

It’s not just the fact of that $1,000 or those contributions. Patrick Brown, the Leader of the Opposition, received just under $10,000 from CropLife. And I will point out, it’s well known in their literature, when they go out to seek stakeholders, they go out, and their own—I’ve seen the email, Speaker, where they say, “Find stakeholders so that you can ask questions, so that you can bring private members’ bills in exchange for contributions,” if those are the views they support. I’m concerned by that.

I also know that the member who’s in the back corner there from—from—

Ms. Daiene Vernile: Prince Edward–Hastings.

Mr. Arthur Potts: —Prince Edward–Hastings has asked questions in this House about the Merit OpenShop Contractors.

Mr. Todd Smith: No, I haven’t.

Mr. Arthur Potts: I’m pretty certain, but I may be wrong. Maybe it was the member from Owen Sound.

Next, on the non-construction employer section—

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): All right. I’m going to recognize the member from Prince Edward county.

Mr. Todd Smith: Clearly, if he’s going to impugn motive, the member should know the facts. Clearly he doesn’t know the facts; he just admitted that himself.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I’m going to remind the member from Beaches–East York to please stick with the facts.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Order. It’s never too late—it’s 10 after 10—to warn people.

I’m going to remind the member from Beaches–East York to stay with the facts. You only have five more minutes before I recess the House. Please stay to the facts, and no colourful language, please and thank you.

Mr. Arthur Potts: Thank you, Speaker. I apologize to the member if it was in fact him or another member of his caucus who was asking those questions. That is not, in my mind, inappropriate, but with the allegations that are being levelled against us on this side of the House—if they were being true to the purpose of what they’re alleging against us, they should put those allegations themselves. On that note, I will sit down and let the President of the Treasury Board maintain the next four minutes.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): I recognize the President of the Treasury Board.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I’m very pleased to be able to speak to this bill on fundraising and rules in the election financing act. I think I’d really like to start to talk about the way in which all parties are similar. What we have been hearing this morning is an extensive catalogue from the opposition parties trying to convince the world that somehow they’re pristine and the government is bad. The member from the third party talked about spaghetti dinners as if only the NDP has spaghetti dinners.

Interjection: At Barberian’s?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Well, that’s a whole different issue. We’ll talk about that in a minute.

I have spaghetti dinners. I’m guessing that there are a lot of my colleagues here this morning who have spaghetti dinners. All kinds of people from all three parties have spaghetti dinners, strawberry socials or whatever it is that’s good for your riding. Frankly, I have a lot of Italian history in my riding, and spaghetti dinners are good. We all do those sorts of things so that we can engage with our constituents at fundraisers. That’s great; that’s fine. That’s a good thing for people to do.

But it isn’t just government members who have had high-priced dinners in the past, or high-priced donors. We heard an extensive catalogue from the member from Nipissing where he tried to connect contributions from various forms of energy companies to the cost of electricity. You know, Speaker, I’ve had an opportunity to read the contributors to the Leader of the Opposition’s leadership campaign, and one of the things I noticed was that there was a major solar company who gave him not one but two significant contributions. Now, I don’t know why.

I have no desire to impute motive, but the reality is that there were all sorts of corporate donations which went to the Leader of the Opposition during his campaign.

Then we think about the third party. The third party, in order to raise funds for the third party, had the Premier of Alberta come. And do you know what they charged energy companies to meet with the leader of the NDP here and the Premier of Alberta—what those oil companies paid? It was $10,000 a crack for dinner. So I just want to get it on the record that what we have here is the pot calling the kettle black.

What I would like to actually just wrap up here with is some of the things that are actually in the bill, because you would never have figured that out from the debate this morning, Madam Speaker. The bill will in fact, if passed, ban corporate and union donations. It will lower the contribution limits that anybody can make to a candidate. It will create a clear definition of third-party advertising. That’s something that the Chief Electoral Officer has said that we need to do; we’re doing it.

It strengthens the limits on what the government can do in terms of advertising pre-campaign so that no government of any political stripe can take advantage of that position. We’ll bring forward an amendment in January—

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Thank you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Soo Wong): Seeing as it’s 10:15, I’ll be recessing the House until 10:30.

The House recessed from 1015 to 1030.

Introduction of Visitors

Mr. Lorne Coe: I’m pleased to introduce Wendy Warne, who’s the grandmother of page Nicole Vaxvick. Wendy is in the members’ gallery this morning. Welcome, Wendy, to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Norm Miller: I am pleased to welcome volunteers with the MS Society of Canada today: Barbara Dickson and Amanda Murray, who I had the pleasure of meeting earlier this morning, and the other volunteers. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Taras Natyshak: I’m pleased to welcome some young lads who are here to take part and learn about Queen’s Park today. Lukas Simpraga and Everett Rieder are here with their dads, Randy Simpraga and Matt Rieder, who are two corrections officers out of the Windsor detention centre. We welcome them here to Queen’s Park.

Mrs. Cristina Martins: It is my pleasure to rise here today in the House to introduce a number of guests visiting from Portugal on the occasion of the 30th anniversary of Arsenal do Minho of Toronto, in my riding of Davenport. Visiting us here today is Ricardo Rio, who’s the mayor of Braga; and Frank Ferreira, Manuel Marques and Tony Letra, all from Arsenal do Minho. Bem-vindo a todos. Welcome.

Mr. Bill Walker: Melanie Grein, mother of page captain Paul Grein, from the great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound is in the gallery today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Paul Miller: In the west gallery, I’d like to welcome Laura Cattari. Laura is from the Fix the Gap campaign for social assistance.

Mr. Arthur Potts: I’m delighted to be able to welcome the parents of page captain Declan McPherson, Heather and Peter McPherson, and their wonderful son Hamish McPherson, who I’m sure will be down here as a page himself one day. Welcome.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: I’d like to draw members’ attention to the east gallery. We have some unusual and very special guests today: The secretary of the environment for the great state of California, my friend Matt Rodriquez; and the Honourable David Heurtel, l’honorable David Heurtel, le ministre de l’Environnement du Québec. Could you please give them a warm Ontario welcome?

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Welcome.

Mr. Yvan Baker: I just wanted to welcome to the members’ east gallery Becky Coles. She’s a producer with Newstalk 1010 radio, and is kind enough to have me and a number of other members of the Legislature on the program in the morning with John Moore once in a while. Welcome, Becky.

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: On behalf of my seatmate, the honourable member from Don Valley East, I would like to welcome some friends that he has in the gallery: Derrick Mealiffe and Jennifer Platsko.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I would like to introduce—from the MS Society, who I had a great meeting with this morning—Jonathan Allenger and Yves Savoie. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Wearing of carnations

M me France Gélinas: I believe we have unanimous consent to wear a red carnation in honour of Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada day at Queen’s Park, and their invitation for us to their lunch reception in 228.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Nickel Belt is seeking unanimous consent to wear the carnations. Do we agree? Agreed.

Point of order from the member from London–Fanshawe.

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Speaker, we seek unanimous consent for the immediate second and third reading passage of Bill 23, the Islamic Heritage Month Act, 2016, in time for Islamic Heritage Month, October 2016.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from London–Fanshawe is seeking unanimous consent for second and third reading. Do we agree? I heard a no.

Oral Questions

Energy policies

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. According to Innovative Research Group poll results that were highlighted in the National Post, the people of Ontario have never been so angry.

Why are they angry? Maybe it’s because this government has lost $6 billion giving energy away to places like New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

Maybe it’s because, according to the Auditor General, between 2006 and 2014, the people of Ontario have been overcharged $37 billion for electricity in global adjustment fees.

Maybe it’s because this government has overpaid $9.2 billion for renewable contracts while the Liberal Party took $1.3 million in donations from 30 companies.

There are a lot of reasons why the people of Ontario would be angry, but I want to ask the Premier: Why do you think the people of Ontario are so angry at your energy policies?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Let me once again talk about what has happened in this province on electricity generation. We inherited an electricity system that was badly degraded. It was dirty. The grid was dirty. We were plagued with brownouts and blackouts, smog—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s not helpful.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Well, if the both of you want to keep going, we’ll go to warnings.

Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: We took that dirty, unreliable system and we cleaned it. We invested in it. We now have an electricity grid that is 90% renewable. The shutting down of the coal-fired plants in this province and the investment in a renewable industry was the single largest initiative in terms of reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in North America. We’re proud of that. We’ve done away with smog days and reduced that pollution.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: Last night, CTV’s Paul Bliss broke a shocking story. Hydro One has been collecting money specifically to pay for equipment they deem very high-risk for failure. But Paul Bliss learned that there are still 111 transformers that are in dire need of repair. So much for the Premier’s talking points on reliability. For years, this government has been approving rate increases, then failing to fix transformers. They’re not bringing reliability to our system.

So my question is: What did that money go for? It was supposed to be for repairs. Was it used to pay the $4-million salary that you approved for the CEO? Was it the $24 million that the Premier approved for the new executive members? Because it certainly wasn’t going to fix the transformers.

Why has the Premier allowed Hydro One to raise rates but not fix the system?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Energy is going to want to speak in the final supplementary, but let me just say—and we have visitors here from California and from Quebec with whom we are partnering. We are partnering to continue to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I think it is instructive for our visitors and our partners to hear the rhetoric from the other side, from people who don’t support the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, who don’t support the changes that we have made to make our grid a clean electricity grid to do away with smog days and to reduce pollution in the air. They don’t support that.

But the reality is that we are steadfast. We are going to continue to invest in our electricity system. We are going to continue to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and work with enlightened jurisdictions like Quebec and California.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock, please. Be seated, please.

We’re edging towards warnings, number one. Number two, always speak to the Chair. And audiences are not allowed to participate in the House business.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: I can understand why the Premier referenced Quebec being here today because they should be here thanking Ontario because this Premier has been giving away Ontario electricity, sometimes even paying Quebec to take it, because of the contracts that this Premier signed in return for Liberal Party donations.

Back to the Premier: I received an email—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m ready to admonish one side, and the other side follows along. It’s not easy for me, so I will probably just decide to move to warnings. We are now in warnings, and I’ll be fast with them.

Please finish.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Mr. Speaker, what do these reckless energy policies mean for people? I received an email to my Simcoe North constituency office from Mary. She is a member of the Canadian forces and a single parent of two children. She has sacrificed a lot to serve her country but because of this government’s hydro policies, she now has to choose which bill she won’t pay each month so she can keep the lights on. She has cancelled her cable and phone and all of her kids’ extracurriculars. She is now saying that she has to leave Ontario. She’s asking for a different posting.

My question to the Premier is: Why are you doing this?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to say that we understand that there are people in the province who are having trouble paying their electricity bills. We understand that, Mr. Speaker, which is exactly why, in the throne speech, we introduced an initiative that will take the provincial portion of the HST off people’s electricity bills; for rural communities, up to a 20% reduction on their bills; and expand the industrial conservation initiative to help businesses deal with their electricity bills. We understand that. We know that people need support, which is why we have a range of programs in place.

But, Mr. Speaker, the investments that we have made in our electricity system to make it clean, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions—the opposition says that we haven’t made investments. We most certainly have made investments: over 10,000 kilometres of line. We’ve made those investments. I sit—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Leeds–Grenville is warned, and I’ve got three others in my head; the next time they speak, they’ll be warned.

Carry on.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I sit at a table with Premiers from across the country, and I know that it is in the best interests of the people of Ontario that we work with Quebec, that we work with Manitoba, that we sign agreements and we find ways to share power, which is exactly what we’re doing, to an unprecedented level.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Hon. David Zimmer: Raymond, you’re on the wrong side of the House.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation is warned. Anyone else care to say something?

New question.

Energy policies

Mr. Patrick Brown: My question is for the Premier. Yesterday, the Minister of Energy defended the Ontario Energy Board’s decision to bury the cost of the cap-and-trade in people’s bills. The Liberals have no problem showing their Band-Aid rebate solution as a line item on hydro bills—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Excuse me. The member from Hamilton Mountain is warned.

Carry on.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Why shouldn’t cap-and-trade be a line item on the natural gas bills? After all, isn’t this government supposed to be in favour of being open and transparent?

Mr. Speaker, directly to the Premier: Why is the Premier afraid to show the true cost of the cap-and-trade plan? What is she hiding? Why would she not allow it in the bill? It’s inconsistent with what she’s doing on the rebate. Yes or no: Will you add it on the bill? Will you be transparent?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the member of the official opposition for the question, because it’s an important one for me to continue to reiterate. We’re not comparing apples to apples in that question. We’ve been very transparent all along about what the cost is going to be of cap-and-trade, but not acting on cap-and-trade and not acting on climate change, Mr. Speaker, would cost so much more.

The OEB is a quasi-judicial organization that makes its decision, and we respect that decision. They have based this, basically, as saying, “This is the cost of doing business.” We don’t see the cost of the pipes on the bills. We don’t see the cost of labour on the bill. So they made the decision. They did consultations with many, many organizations and with stakeholders right across the province. This is the decision that they came up with and this is the decision that we respect.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier. By not putting the cost of cap-and-trade on the bill, Liberals are throwing the natural gas companies under the bus. It will look like the companies are raising prices, when in fact it’s the Liberals’ cap-and-trade scheme that will force prices up.

Why would they want to do that? Well, maybe it’s because the Premier is hosting a $1,000 dinner next week at Menergy, a Chinese energy company that wants to replace natural gas. The previous Liberal cabinet plan to ban natural gas was exposed by Adrian Morrow in the Globe and Mail, forcing the Liberals to retreat—not to mention they are still mandating net-zero homes, another way of forcing people off natural gas.

Is this the Liberals’ secret agenda, trying to force people off natural gas? When will their attacks on affordable home heating end?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Absolutely no one is trying to force anyone off natural gas. We’re actually expanding natural gas. I guess they can’t hear it. The only thing that this group is trying to do is put people back on puffers. We eliminated all coal-fired generation. We’ve invested in our system, our natural gas system: $200-million loan programs to get more communities and more municipalities and First Nations onto natural gas, a $30-million grant program that is being looked after by the great Minister of Infrastructure.

We look forward to having the conversation and getting more of our communities on natural gas to give that choice to as many families in communities right across our great province—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Before we move forward: People that are sitting in different seats, I still know who you are. I still know what riding you are, and you’re actually getting closer to me, which means I hear you even more. I’m just saying.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Patrick Brown: Back to the Premier: I can understand why the Premier wouldn’t want to answer these questions. Her government’s energy policy is an unmitigated disaster. But I hope the Premier will answer this question.

A few months ago, CTV’s Paul Bliss exposed the tax on a tax, just another thing the Liberals tried to hide. So let’s recap: The Liberals tried to ban natural gas. They are burying the cost of cap-and-trade on natural gas bills, and the Liberals tried to hide the tax on a tax until Paul Bliss exposed it. How far will this government go to hide their true plan to rid the province of natural gas and affordable home heating?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: To the Minister of the Environment.

Interjections.

Hon. Glen R. Murray: Let’s press the pause button, because the Leader of the Opposition has a plan to raise carbon prices between $110 and $150 a tonne with zero revenues to help people adjust to it. That means rates would be seven times higher. But maybe he’s flip-flopped again like he did on sex ed and climate change and choice and so many other things, because he’s got more positions than he’s got members on his side.

We will not support a $110 increase in people’s bills like he will.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

New question.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is to the Premier. The Premier doesn’t want to talk about the privatization of local hydro utilities. She says it’s up to the municipalities. But that’s not the whole story. The Liberals—

Hon. Brad Duguid: You should read the Globe and Mail.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The Minister of Economic Development and Growth is warned.

Finish your question, please.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: But that’s not the whole story: The Liberals can encourage the privatization by offering special tax loopholes. The government has a choice. Is the Premier going to encourage the privatization of Toronto Hydro by creating a tax loophole?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I have answered this question. I’ve said, and it remains the case, that it is up to the city of Toronto council and the mayor to have this discussion and to make a decision about their utility. It is up to them.

If the member opposite is interested in that discussion, he should talk to the members of council for the city of Toronto.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: The facts are very different from what the Premier is putting forward. The reality is the Premier can make it a lot easier for Toronto Hydro and other local utilities to privatize if she gives the municipalities a tax break. That means the Premier won’t be sitting back and waiting for municipalities to make the decision. That means the Liberal government will have a direct role in the privatization of local hydro utilities. The media are reporting that the Premier has said she “will not stand in the way of any push by Mayor John Tory to privatize Toronto Hydro.”

Is the Premier going to make it easier for local hydro utilities to privatize by providing a tax break?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: As the Premier said, the decision to privatize Toronto Hydro is up to Toronto city council. There are no ifs, and or buts, Mr. Speaker; that is the council that makes the decision.

What I’m thinking that the third party is confusing is privatization and consolidation. We have over 70 LDCs, over 70 utilities, right across the province. We would like to see that number come down, so we’ve put forward voluntary consolidation to actually have these companies come together to find savings. The Independent Electricity System Operator has said that there will be about $1 billion in savings for the ratepayers if we have some of this consolidation. So I think, Mr. Speaker, that the third party is confusing privatization and consolidation.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: Absolutely not. There’s no confusion here. In fact, I agree that the city and municipalities have the decision. But if the city of Toronto, for example, were to sell Toronto Hydro, they would have to pay $200 million in taxes to the provincial government in a transfer tax fee, so the Liberal government can actually encourage this decision if they waive that tax.

Liberal insiders say that the Premier is interested in waiving this provincial transfer tax and encourage the privatization so that privatizing Toronto Hydro could give the Liberals “political cover for their own privatization of Hydro One.” My question is very simple: Will the Premier help the privatization of local hydro utilities by waiving the provincial taxes—yes or no?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: Well, the member opposite has it all wrong, because, in fact, when we were looking at Hydro One and our ability to broaden its ownership, it did, in fact, incur a degree of deferred tax, which we benefited from as the people of Ontario to the effect of, again, enabling us greater value to the Trillium Trust, which is now going to be used directly for infrastructure.

But the member opposite, in fact, has his own utility which is under question now, which is going to benefit from a consolidation because of the benefits that we’ve provided for some tax relief with Brampton hydro, Enersource, Horizon and PowerStream. All of that consolidation is giving great efficiency for that member’s constituents, which he apparently opposes as well. That’s unfortunate because this member and his constituents will benefit from some of these initiatives and again we’ll be able to invest even more into the infrastructure.

Ultimately, the people of Toronto, the council of Toronto—it’s their decision to make.

Privatization of public assets

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: My question is again to the Premier. Let’s make it clear: No one in this province benefited from the privatization of Toronto Hydro but for the Liberal Party and their elite friends.

People across Ontario are concerned about how they’re going to keep the lights on and how they’re going to warm their house this winter. Privatization doesn’t mean that hydro agencies will have different owners, as the Liberals like to claim; it means that prices will go up, costs will go up. As one investor told media, if Toronto Hydro is privatized, the new owners will “expect a return on their investment and the obvious way is through further rate increases for Toronto Hydro’s 730,000 customers.”

It’s very clear that privatization increases costs. The question is, will the Premier rule out any further privatization of our hydro system?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m pleased to rise and answer the question for the honourable member. As he well knows, the OEB is a quasi-judicial organization that’s not part of the government. They set the rates.

The broadening of Hydro One has actually helped our government continue to invest in infrastructure right across the province. It’s not just us who are saying that. There’s a great report today in the Globe and Mail from reporter Tim Kiladze that talks about the Hydro One sale as a “home run.” He points out that when the PCs were in power, they privatized the 407 at a cut-rate price. As he says, luckily the Premier “wisely listened to her advisers and decided to sell 60% of Hydro One in chunks.” This strategy allows the province to maximize the value of the sale while still maintaining a controlling stake.

His analysis is spot on. I continue to look forward to working with this government to build infrastructure right across the province.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: People want to build a good life for themselves and, what’s more important, they want to build a better life for the next generation. They want to make sure that they have the same as, if not better than, what they had. But the rising cost of living makes that very difficult.

Privatization of how Ontario generates electricity has increased the cost of electricity from about four cents per kilowatt hour to 18 cents per kilowatt hour. That’s what privatization is doing. The Liberal government is opening up the privatization of Hydro One, and naturally that’s going to increase costs even further. Now they’re opening up a further door to the privatization of local hydro utilities. Selling off more of our hydro system means less options and less opportunities. It means the next generation will have a difficult time—a harder time instead of an easier time.

Will the Premier make it clear and commit to ending any further privatization of our public hydro utility system?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: We’re on track to realize the target of $9 billion generated through the IPO, and through that—I was going to continue to talk about the report in the Globe and Mail. Broadening the ownership of Hydro One is smart policy. It’s supporting this government’s significant investment in infrastructure right across the province.

Talking about creating jobs, part of the money that we’re getting from the broadening of this sale went towards $173 million that my friend from the Ministry of Transportation was able to announce for expanding Highway 69 to four lanes, making our roads safer and making sure that we create hundreds of jobs throughout the province as we build Ontario up.

We’ve got investments happening from Kenora to Ottawa to Windsor—all over this province—because we recognize the importance of building infrastructure, and broadening the sale of Hydro One does just that.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Jagmeet Singh: There’s no broader ownership than every single person in this province owning their public utility. I don’t understand how the government can stand up and make this ludicrous suggestion.

People are worried that the Premier is getting ready to help privatize local utilities. People have seen this movie before. They’ve seen it with Hydro One. They’ve seen it with this government never running on this idea of selling off Hydro One, and then going ahead and selling off our public utility. We know the Liberals haven’t run on—and they haven’t spoken about this in their throne speech—the sale of local hydro utilities, but now we’re seeing that they’re not ruling that out as well.

Privatized hydro is pushing people over the edge. Will the Premier once and for all rule out any further privatization of our public utilities? Just rule it out.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Again, thanks for the question. He started off his question talking about how it’s important to make sure that every single Ontarian owns a portion of Hydro One, and we’ll continue to do that. Ontario will remain the single largest shareholder of Hydro One. Legislation requires that we keep a minimum of 40% ownership, and no other shareholder group is going to own more than 10% of that.

Every single Ontarian in this province is talking about what they want and what they want to own. What about owning new transit? What about making sure we’re building bridges? What about owning decent roads right across the province? That’s what Ontarians want. They want jobs and growth, and we’re providing that. We’re building Ontario up, and we’ll continue with that focus and make sure it happens for all families right across this province.

Tabling of public accounts

Mr. Steve Clark: My question is to the President of the Treasury Board. By law, this government is to table the province’s public accounts by the end of this week, but on Tuesday the President of the Treasury Board rose in the House and said that because of ongoing discussions with the Treasury Board and the Auditor General, the books would be delayed. But an insider says this discussion is more of a dispute and that the Treasury Board is challenging the Auditor General’s accounting.

Mr. Speaker, will the President of the Treasury Board please explain why she will not be tabling the public accounts on time? What is this government hiding?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Let me answer the last part of the question first. We’re not hiding anything. If he reflected on the rest of my statement to the House, he would know that I had also said that I am pleased to report to the House that, in fact, we are on track to meet our deficit targets as published in last year’s budget and the fall economic statement from a year ago. So we’re not hiding anything. We are on track to meet our targets.

What I did say, Speaker, was that there are some complex accounting issues that we’re working on. We’re working on them with the Auditor General. I have directed my officials at Treasury Board to work with the Auditor General to come up with a plan to table the books as soon as possible.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Steve Clark: Back to the President of the Treasury Board: Something just doesn’t seem right. Just one week ago, the deputy minister at the Treasury Board quit. Now the Liberals are going to miss the tabling deadline. Why is that? Has this government been using shady accounting practices? Are the debt and deficit higher than the government is letting on?

Mr. Speaker, what exactly is going on in that office? What else is this government trying to hide?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I just caution the member that on the tightrope walk, it’s close, and if it gets anything near again, I will ask the member to withdraw.

President of Treasury Board.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I would repeat that we have absolutely nothing to hide. There is a discussion going on between the accountants in the Auditor General’s office, the accountants in the Treasury Board Secretariat and the accountants at the Ministry of Finance. It’s quite a complex accounting issue. I’ve asked that they come together and find a solution to that and that we will table the books as quickly as possible.

Once again, I want to assure the member, Speaker, that we have absolutely nothing to hide and that, in fact, we are on target to meet the deficit plan that we tabled in the budget and the fall economic statement.

Hydro rates

Mr. John Vanthof: My question is to the Premier. People in rural and northern Ontario are being hammered by sky-high hydro delivery charges, which are often higher than the actual cost of the power consumed. The Wynne government has promised to reduce the rural delivery charges by 12%. In the House yesterday, the Premier stated that rural and northern communities have access to the 20% reduction, which is 12% plus the HST.

My question is very simple: Will all northern and rural customers qualify for the promised 12% delivery charge reduction?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’d like to thank the honourable member for his question.

As we said all along, families in rural and remote communities that have been qualifying for the RRRP will continue to get the RRRP. If the families don’t have the RRRP, they get the 8%. The one thing that we’re very proud of is we’re making sure that the RRRP, which has never increased, is now going to $45 a month, or 20% on an average bill. We’re making sure that the families that are in northern Ontario, that are in rural parts of our province, can save as much as possible.

It’s difficult for me to actually have a broad sweep with all people because everyone has a different designation on their bill. The important thing to recognize is that every family will be getting at least 8% right across the province, and those families that are in northern parts—or rural parts—will get the 20%.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Vanthof: My question is again to the Premier. This morning, in a response, she said there will be a 12% reduction for rural communities. She didn’t say “rural and remote”; she said “rural communities.” The minister now says he’s backtracking a bit because several times in this House it was 20% for everyone.

There are 1.8 million people in rural Ontario, but apparently only 300,000 will be getting the full rebate. People need to know: Will the Premier tell people who were promised but won’t be getting it?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: So now it’s a debate about semantics: rural, remote, northern. I know the folks in northern Ontario don’t like being called rural, but you know what—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Those last ones usually get you in trouble.

Minister.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Mr. Speaker, 330,000 families in the rural, remote or northern parts of our province will be getting the benefit of 20% on their bills. We’ve been saying this all along. Even the Financial Accountability Officer has come out with a report that says we recognize that some families in these parts of our province are seeing higher costs on their electricity bill on the delivery charge. That percentage goes directly toward lowering that piece.

But the Financial Accountability Officer also said that, on average, we’re right in the middle of the pack when it comes to our rates right across this country.

Curriculum

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: My question today is for the Minister of Education. We have a lot to be proud of when it comes to student achievement, thanks in large part to our great educators and staff. Our schools are recognized across the country and around the world for excellence in education, and this is something that we need to be extremely proud of.

Last week, I understand, you announced how we are working together with our schools to implement our new renewed math strategy. I know that the latest EQAO results show that there is more work for us to do to support our students and our teachers in mathematics learning.

Speaker, through you to the minister, what is the Ontario government doing to raise student achievement in mathematics?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: I want to say thank you to the very hard-working member from Kingston and the Islands. I know that she is a wonderful advocate for her constituents.

Supporting effective learning and teaching in mathematics is a top priority for our government. I am very proud that we are dedicating more than $60 million to supporting students across the province as they strive to do well in mathematics. This strategy is in place as of September.

Math is critical to the jobs of today and to the jobs of the future. Our renewed math strategy is informed by research and best practices in learning. We have consulted with educators from across the sector. It focuses on the needs of students, educators and parents while encouraging a shared responsibility to support our students in their learning.

By working together with our students, we can ensure their success.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Sophie Kiwala: We are extremely proud of the investments made in education. It is important that we continue to focus on improving the achievement of all students in mathematics.

I’m pleased to hear that the students in my riding of Kingston and the Islands, and boards like the Limestone District School Board, the Algonquin and Lakeshore Catholic District School Board et celui des écoles publiques francophones will have access to increased support when it comes to mathematics.

Minister, can you please tell this House what types of supports and opportunities our government will be providing as part of the renewed math strategy?

Hon. Mitzie Hunter: Thank you again to the member.

Mr. Speaker, since the beginning of the school year, we have introduced key elements of the renewed math strategy: a minimum of 60 minutes each day of protected time for learning effective math instruction; assessment for students in grades 1 to 8; and up to three math leads in all elementary schools. We’re also ensuring that resources are in place for students and parents: better access to online math resources and math supports such as Homework Help and SOS Devoirs, as well as a parent tool kit and opportunities for educators to deepen their knowledge in math learning, teaching and leading.

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank all of our education workers for the great work they’re doing on behalf of our students.

Fiscal accountability

Mr. Victor Fedeli: My question is for the Minister of Finance. In his recent annual report, the Financial Accountability Officer confirmed what we already knew: This government is neither open nor transparent. The FAO said that they are actively skirting their obligations and refusing to disclose information obligated under the law. He has even said, “I believe this is political direction.”

Through the work of the FAO, we have learned a number of shocking revelations. The sale of Hydro One will have a negative impact on the province’s finances. Business investment is set to decline, and Ontario’s debt level is spiralling out of control. Yet they refuse to co-operate with the FAO and obey the law. I ask the minister: What are you hiding from the Ontario taxpayers?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we’re working very closely with the FAO. We recognize the importance of getting our information out. The C.D. Howe Institute and many others have already expressed that Ontario’s books and accounting are by far the most transparent and most indicative of what is the state of affairs, unlike what would happen in the past or in the Conservative regime, where they hid $5 billion at the time of their last election. We have been surpassing our targets. We have constantly decreased our deficits year over year. Rating agencies and investors value Ontario. Even the FAO has recognized that we are coming to balance.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Back to the minister: Here are some examples of what the FAO has called a “broader pattern” of secrecy and refusal to provide legally required information. This government has failed to release the long-range assessment of Ontario’s finances which was due us on the June 12 deadline. They have failed to provide third-quarter financial statements since 2012. These are important documents for MPPs to do our jobs, and they’re required under the Fiscal Transparency and Accountability Act. So much for being open and transparent. This government has plunged Ontario into structural deficits and record levels of debt, yet they refuse to come clean and obey the law.

I ask the minister again: What else are you hiding from the people of Ontario?

Hon. Charles Sousa: The long-term report is coming out, as it did four years ago. It actually did come out at a later time. We want to make certain all the information is obtained, including some of our more recent reports that we are in the midst of having completed.

Furthermore, the FAO recognizes credit agencies’ assessments that we are well positioned to achieve our balanced target, stating that credit agencies’ “affirmation of Ontario’s credit rating ... indicates that they believe the province has taken adequate steps on both revenues and expenditures to achieve its plan to restore ... balance.” The credibility of our plan was affirmed recently by four credit rating agencies, including Moody’s upgrading of their outlook of Ontario’s credit. The FAO, the accountants—they’re all working on the matter.

We are eager to release our public accounts because we have a great story to tell, a story that included no support from the opposition to reduce our deficit and increase our—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: It was due June 12.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): It’s never too late. The member from Nipissing is warned.

New question.

Ontario Energy Board

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The government insists that the Ontario Energy Board will defend ratepayers when a privatized Hydro One comes calling to demand more private profits. But the Auditor General found that the OEB approved rate increases for capital upgrades that never took place. Hydro One spent the money on something else. Then, as the number of blackouts increased, Hydro One came back to demand even more ratepayer cash to fix the problems that they should have fixed with the money they have already been given.

What are the consequences for a utility that receives ratepayer cash for upgrades that never take place or for the regulator that approves those rate increases?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: I’m thankful to be able to stand and clarify a lot of things that were in that question. Hydro One does not reflect investments in rates until those assets are in service. To make that clear: Customers do not pay for deferred investments. The OEB is very clear on that. The OEB, as we’ve said all along, is the organization that sets the rates. They look at what is being brought forward, and then they make that decision. At no time has any decision been made to defer investments.

What I can tell you is that the hard work of this utility is part of what has transformed an unreliable and under-maintained system that was left in place by the PCs. We’ve turned that into the clean and reliable system that we have today, and that’s something we can all be proud of.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Well, Speaker, it’s clear that the government hasn’t read the Auditor General’s report on Hydro One.

The Ontario Energy Board approved higher delivery rates to pay for a fivefold increase in capital spending by Toronto Hydro, but upgrades that were supposed to take place years ago were delayed or deferred.

Even though the OEB gave them ratepayer money for capital upgrades, the CEO of Toronto Hydro and the mayor of Toronto are now claiming that there’s no other way to pay for capital upgrades and to prevent blackouts except through privatization. The Premier is encouraging this privatization by offering a fat tax break that will transfer the debt burden onto Ontarians.

Instead of subsidizing the privatization of Toronto Hydro, why won’t the Premier make sure that when the OEB approves rate increases for capital upgrades, those upgrades actually take place?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Minister?

Hon. Glenn Thibeault: Again, when it comes to the privatizing of Toronto Hydro, that’s a decision for Toronto city council.

When it comes to the OEB, the agency has a strong record of reviewing rate applications with the consumer in mind. For example, in 2010, Hydro One asked for a rate increase for its distribution and received a 9% reduction in its capital requests. In 2012, Hydro One asked for a rate increase for its transmission and received a 3% reduction of its capital request.

Priority when it comes to replacing transformers is decided by their condition and performance. How critical the asset is to the electricity service is one of the factors that they look at what they’re making that decision as a company. Once again, there is nothing there to reflect that investments in rates will increase for assets that are in service. Customers do not pay for deferred investments.

Infrastructure program funding

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: My question is for the Minister of Infrastructure. Minister, Ontarians know that investing in infrastructure that creates jobs, stimulates growth and enhances the quality of life is a top priority for our government. Our historic $160-billion investment has already started building bridges, roads, schools, hospitals and other critical public infrastructure projects in my riding and across the province. This investment will also fund often forgotten but equally important green infrastructure projects, such as clean water and waste water infrastructure.

Across Ontario, there’s a growing need for all levels of government to make strategic investments in clean water and effective water management systems.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Could he please explain to this House the investment our government is making in clean water and waste water infrastructure?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I’d like to thank the member from the great riding of Northumberland–Quinte West.

The people of Ontario deserve to know that they have clean water and effective water management systems that they can trust each and every day. That is why our government is partnering with the federal government to make significant investments in clean water and waste water infrastructure across the province.

The federal and provincial governments, along with Ontario municipalities, are investing $1.1 billion in the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, which will provide access to clean and reliable drinking water, efficient wastewater systems and healthy waterways—$270 million will be provided by our government and Ontario’s municipalities each.

We are honouring our commitment to build Ontario up by investing in critical public infrastructure that creates jobs, stimulates growth and enhances quality of life.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Thank you, Minister. I’m delighted to know that our government is making significant investments into the protection of municipal water supply. It is encouraging to know that our government is working to ensure constituents, like mine from Port Hope to Quinte West, have safe, reliable public infrastructure that they can count on.

I know that our government’s multi-billion-dollar investment in infrastructure will create jobs, stimulate growth and enhance quality of life for all Ontarians, sustaining an average of 110,000 jobs per year. I also know that our government offers many infrastructure funding programs for everything from small community projects to major public transit works.

Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister: Could he please elaborate on our government’s historic infrastructure program?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Some 41 projects have already been approved under the Clean Water and Wastewater Fund, and applications from all municipalities and First Nations across the province are now being accepted.

But the fund is only one part of our province’s historic $160-billion investment in critical public infrastructure. The constituency of every single member in this House will receive support for infrastructure projects through various funds. We have committed to boosting the Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund from $100 million to $300 million per year. We are spending $31 billion on moving Ontario forward, $15 billion of which will be spent outside the GTHA in many of the ridings of the members opposite. We have also committed $1 billion to the Ring of Fire in northern Ontario, and billions more in education and health care capital and retrofits.

Ontario Retirement Pension Plan

Mrs. Julia Munro: My question is to the Premier. Premier, when the ORPP was abandoned, the government said it would cost around $20 million. Then it was revealed that the true cost was more than $70 million, including generous severances for Liberal friends, some of whom had only worked on the ORPP for days.

But that report also revealed an unaccounted $12 million in office space. First it was $20 million, then $70 million and now $82 million. Will the Premier tell us the true cost of cancelling the ORPP, or are you hiding that?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know that the Minister of Finance will want to comment in the supplementary, but let me just say that it is a very good thing that across this country, we now have agreement on Canada Pension Plan enhancement.

The fact is that we were moving ahead to put in place an Ontario retirement pension plan, because under the Stephen Harper government—and I know that the Leader of the Opposition knows all about that—there was no understanding of the pension crisis that was facing people across the country.

So now that we have been able to work with the federal government and work with our colleagues across the country, we have a Canada Pension Plan enhancement. But we were very determined in Ontario to make sure that, in the absence of that agreement at the federal level and across the country, we would have secure retirement for people in Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mrs. Julia Munro: Again to the Premier: If the Premier had just listened to my call to put an end to the ORPP, while on hold after the federal election—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Order. The member from Durham is warned.

Finish, please.

Mrs. Julia Munro: Thank you. Instead, the Liberals recklessly plowed ahead. The $82 million doesn’t count staff resources, or the $7 million spent every year on pension policy development. The Premier should come clean and tell us the true cost of cancelling the ORPP.

I want to ask another part of a question here: Do Ontario taxpayers regularly pay for cross-country advertising?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Finance.

Hon. Charles Sousa: There are a couple of things that the member references which are completely incorrect, but the most important one is the fact that if we had listened to them and listened to her, there would be no retirement security for the people of Ontario or the people of Canada. There would be no CPP. We stood in this House and we fought for the people of Ontario and all of Canada. I’m very proud of the work this Premier has done to support that cause.

Furthermore, we put forward what we anticipate will be the high point of any outstanding costs, and those costs are actually coming down, so again, she’s incorrect on that point.

Furthermore, this is a nationally effective situation that is benefiting all of Canada, and that is what this member doesn’t recognize. We are working for all of Canada as well as Ontario, and they are going to benefit from the decisions that all of us are making collectively.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. A couple of people in different seats, again, who I may have to come back to, who continue to do those things that they’re not supposed to do.

New question.

Social assistance

Mr. Paul Miller: My question is to the Premier. Some 900,000 people depend on Ontario Works and ODSP to live. Since 1995, the price of a loaf of bread or a dozen eggs has more than doubled, and rent and hydro have gone through the roof. In that time, social assistance for a single person has gone up just $18. That’s barely 2% in 21 years. Families can’t make ends meet. Kids are going hungry. Your announcement today won’t even dent the years of neglect.

Why has this government not used its 13 years in power to substantially increase efforts for people and the money they need to survive?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the minister responsible for poverty reduction will want to comment in the supplementary. But I want to say to the member opposite that I completely support in principle the bill that he’s brought forward. We have already taken action to put more money in the hands of people who are vulnerable in this province. The fact is, the group that was most at risk, single people without children, now receive $100 per month more than they did in 2012; that’s $1,200 a year more than they received. We’ve increased by $25 a month for single adults receiving Ontario Works, 1.5% for families receiving Ontario Works, and 1.5% for individuals with disabilities who receive ODSP.

On top of that is the Ontario Child Benefit, and we are working on rent supplements. We understand that there are myriad things we need to do to support people who are living in poverty.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Paul Miller: Thank you to the Premier for the compliment. However, even with your increase, people are still $11,500 below the poverty level. This government is failing the most vulnerable people in Ontario. People expected more from the Premier and her government. This government simply does not understand the cost of living in our province.

New Democrats believe the government should make policy based on evidence and research. We need hard evidence on the real cost of living to ensure that social assistance benefits meet their basic needs.

In April, all three parties voted to support the establishment of a social assistance research commission, which we appreciate. But we don’t want it to die in committee. We want it to go through committee—be called to committee, go for third reading and be law in this province.

Will the Premier and her caucus support the social assistance research commission again this afternoon, as they did unanimously five months ago, and ensure that the committee calls—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister responsible for poverty reduction.

Hon. Chris Ballard: I’m delighted to respond to the question from the member opposite. I wish I had more time to go over an exceptionally lengthy list of all the positive accomplishments this government has accomplished in the past three years. I just want to touch on a couple.

The Income Security Reform Working Group is developing that road map that focuses on needs and prioritizes actions for the most meaningful impact.

I just want to touch on a couple of things that are happening. For example, we’ve removed the provincial clawback on child support payments to families receiving social assistance, increasing the annual income of almost 19,000 families by an average of $282 per month. That’s $3,300 annually. Most of these are single-income families. This government is dedicated to working with the most vulnerable members of our society and making sure they reach their potential.

Government services

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is to the President of the Treasury Board Secretariat. Minister, it’s well known to every member of this House that the Treasury Board Secretariat acts as an important control function for the government, that the Treasury Board is responsible for ensuring that we maximize—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Sorry, continue the clock. The member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek is warned.

Carry on.

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Treasury Board is responsible for ensuring that we maximize the value of every dollar that we spend. In addition to controlling costs, your ministry is proactively working to modernize government and find efficiencies. The minister is leading our government in streamlining transfer payments to the organizations that deliver services and implementing more effective ways of delivering information and information technology solutions to Ontarians.

As part of modernizing government, I know that Treasury Board supports ministries by adding a behavioural science lens to policy development and program implementation. Mr. Speaker, through you to the minister, will she inform the House how the Treasury Board supports ministries through the behavioural insights unit?

Hon. Liz Sandals: Thank you to the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for her excellent question. Ontario is one of the first jurisdictions in Canada to leverage behavioural sciences to improve outcomes and deliver better services to Ontarians. A really good example of this is organ donor registration.

We know the majority of Ontarians say they’re willing to register as an organ and tissue donor, yet only 27% are registered. The greater Toronto area has one of the lowest rates in the province, with only 17% registering. Using behavioural insights, Treasury Board works closely with the Ministry of Health to improve the registration process, making it easier and faster for donors to register while making it cost-effective to the Ministry of Health. With this new process, we saw registration rates increase up to 143%—great news.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you to the minister for the response. I know the Treasury Board is often characterized by the financial function it performs for the rest of the government. It is great to hear how Treasury Board is assisting ministries in creating more efficient processes and delivering positive outcomes.

In my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt, I encourage my constituents to become registered organ and tissue donors. I also work closely with Mohan, Tom and Helen—I know they’re watching today—at the Scarborough Gift of Life Association to promote organ and tissue donation in our diverse community.

It is shocking for me to hear that only 17% of GTA residents have registered as organ donors. I’m very pleased to hear that the Treasury Board is a part of the solution.

Speaker, through you to the minister, can the minister inform the House what other accomplishments the behavioural insights unit of the Treasury Board has achieved to date?

Hon. Liz Sandals: The Treasury Board created the behavioural insights unit in 2013, and we have numerous examples. For example, Treasury Board worked closely with the Ministry of Transportation to modify the information sent to Ontarians encouraging them to renew their licence plate stickers, something people don’t like doing all that much. They can do it online. During an eight-week pilot, we saw more than 13,000 licence plate renewals online with the help of the behavioural science unit. That resulted in savings of $28,000 because—

Interruption.

Hon. Liz Sandals: I think that’s mine—because of that.

In a short period of time, we saw large savings simply by shifting user behaviour. With the help of the behavioural insights unit, we look forward to more of these—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. New question?

Physiotherapy service