Manitoba Hansard — 28 April 2009 (Sitting 32B, 39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-32b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 32B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 28, 2009 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon.

Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

1277 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 28, 2009 The House met at 1:30 p.m. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Long-Term Care Facility–Morden Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background for this petition is as follows: Tabor Home Incorporated is a time-expired personal care home in Morden with safety, environmental and space deficiencies. The seniors of Manitoba are valuable members of the community with in creasing health-care needs requiring long-term care.

The community of Morden and surrounding area are experiencing substantial population growth. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to strongly consider giving priority for funding to develop and staff a new 100-bed long-term care facility so that clients are not exposed to unsafe conditions and so that Boundary Trails Health Centre beds remain available for acute-care patients instead of waiting placement clients. This is signed by Anne Pritchard, B.E. Maxwell, A.K. Richards and many, many others. Mr.

Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. The background to this petition is as follows: Manitoba's Premier and his NDP government have not recognized the issues of public concern related to the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. The WRHA is building an administrative empire at the expense of bedside care.

Winnipeg Regional Health Authority needs to be held accountable for the decisions it is making. Health-care workers are being pressured into not being able to speak out no matter what the WRHA is doing or has done. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP government to call a meeting of a standing committee of the Legislature and invite representatives of the WRHA to appear before it. Mr. Speaker, this is signed N. Hanuschak, Ben Hanuschak, L. Diane and many, many other fine Manitobans. PTH 15 Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr.

Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. In 2004, the Province of Manitoba made a public commitment to the people of Springfield to twin PTH 15 and the floodway bridge on PTH 15, but then in 2006, the twinning was cancelled. Injuries resulting from collisions on PTH 15 continue to rise and have doubled from 2007 to 2008. In August 2008, the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) stated that preliminary analysis of current and future traffic demands indicate that local twinning will be required.

The current plan to replace the floodway bridge on PTH 15 does not include twinning and, therefore, does not fulfil the current nor future traffic demands cited by the Minister of Transportation. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Transportation consider the immediate twinning of the PTH 15 floodway bridge for the safety of the citizens of Manitoba. Signed by Eleanor Zieske, Valerie Anderson, Les Welling and many, many other Manitobans.

1278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Science, Technology, Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2009-2010 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for Manitoba Science, Technology, Energy and Mines. Thank you. Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Manitoba Water Stewardship Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2009-2010 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Day of Mourning Hon.

Nancy Allan (Min ister of Labour and Immigration): Mr. Speaker, I have a ministerial statement for the House. Today, April 28, is a day of mourning for workers killed or injured on the job. On this day, we remember the men and women who did not return home safely from work last year. Twenty-two workers lost their lives on the job in Manitoba, and more than 17,000 were inju red severely enough they were off the job for a number of days. The gravity of these workplace incidents is enormous, and their toll on families and communities in Manitoba is all the more tragic because they are preventable.

This day has special significance for Manitoba. In 1991, Manitoba Member of Parliament, Rod Murphy, introduced private member's legislation that prompted the Parliament of Canada to officially recognize Ap ril 28 as the Day of Mourning. Seven years earlier, Manitoba union leader, Dick Martin was instrumental in the Canadian Labour Congress initiative to designate April 28 as the national Day of Mourning. The Day of Mourning is now observed in more than 100 countries around the world.

While we have reduced the time-loss injury rate by 27 percent since 2000, we must not be satisfied until every worker returns home safely every day. Today, as we remember and honour those workers who were killed or injured on the job, we must accept our responsibility to follow in the footsteps of the health and safety pioneers who came before us. As leaders in the community, along with our business and union colleagues, we must set the example that safety and health on the job is a daily priority at every workplace in the province. Mr.

Speaker, following statements by my colleagues, I would ask that all members stand for a moment of silence in the Chamber to honour the memory of men and women of Manitoba who were injured or killed in the workplace this past year. Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for her statement. On behalf of the Progressive Conservative caucus, I would like to recognize the significance of the national Day of Mourning for people killed or injured at work.

Today, I had the honour to join many other Manitobans walking in the Leaders Walk, which highlights collectively the tragic reality of workplace accidents. I want to especially recognize the many young people that were there today. The national Day of Mourning calls us to remember in a special way those who lost their lives while working and their families and friends who mourn their loss. One important way which we can remember and honour the departed is by working toward a safer and accident-free workplace.

I want to convey my deepest sympathy to those who have lost a loved one, whether it's a spouse, a child, a brother or sister or friend. The departed must not be forgotten, and today we come together to remember, reflect and give thanks for the lives tragically shortened. Mr. Speaker, we especially remember those occupations today that continually face deadly hazards, particularly firefighters and police officers who consistently put the security of others ahead of their own.

We also remember high-risk occupations, many of which are crucial to the vital infrastructure we use daily, and we recognize the particular dangers these workers face. We must ensure that every safety precaution is taken, as life is too precious not to. * (13:40) So, too, must we recognize that, for many workers, injuries sustained in the workplace permanently change their lives and the lives of their families. Together we must work to ensure that these workers have ready access to support and needed resources, and that programs are responsive to their distinct needs.

Workplace accidents do not discriminate based on age, sex, race and, sadly, too many of these accidents rob us of our family. Regardless of party affiliation or political persuasion we all have a duty to ensure that workers in Manitoba work under safe conditions so that no

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1279 family has to deal with the tragedy of a workplace death. We must also laud and support those whose jobs it is to ensure that Manitobans return home safely every day. Employers, unions and the Workers Compensation Board, together with many other safety officials, all work to ensure the safety of Manitobans at work. Indeed, in a sobering way, the national Day of Mourning reminds us that a safe work environment is all of our responsibility. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr.

Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I join other members of this Chamber in speaking out about the importance of safety in workplaces in Manitoba. Although there has been some reduction in the time-loss injury rate, we still have rates which are higher than other provinces, and there is still considerable room for us to improve and pay more attention and do more in this area. Certainly, in the area of farm injuries, it's an area where we have more work to do.

I think all of us would extend our sympathy and condolences to workers who have been injured, or the family and friends of those who have died in the workplace, and want to dedicate ourselves to making sure that we have safer workplaces, whic h are safer in terms of physical injuries, but, also, in terms of mental anguish and mental harassment on the job. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement for a moment of silence? [Agreed] Please rise. A moment of silence was observed. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Paul Dombkins from Winnipeg and Bonnie Dombkins from Ottawa, who are the guests of the honourable Member for Fort Rouge (Ms. Howard). Also in the public gallery we have with us from Pointe-des-Chênes School 42 grades 9 to 12 students under the direction of Monique Syreij. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today.

ORAL QUESTIONS Hog Industry Government Strategy for Potential Economic Challenges Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the flu outbreak that originated in Mexico is, for very understandable reasons, causing a high level of concern for all Manitobans. I want to thank the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) for the invitation to attend a briefing later this afternoon with some public health officials on the health issues arising from this outbreak. But, in addition to the health issues, there are certain very significant economic issues that arise in the course of such an outbreak.

With our pork industry here in Manitoba, the livelihoods of some 15,000 Manitobans are at stake, and we know that this is an industry that contributes some-thousand dollars per Manitoban in exports which is greater than the amount of exports of Manitoba Hydro. So I want to ask the Premier: In light of the threats that are now arising on top of all of the other significant challenges faced by the pork industry in Manitoba, if he could indicate what steps he is taking to protect this industry which is so vital to the livelihoods of so many Manitoba families. Hon.

Gary Doer (Premier): I thank the member for the question. I, first of all, want to pass on our condolences to the people of Mexico who have suffered over 150 lives that are lost and the many people very sick and great fear in that country. Certainly the member will be briefed by Dr. Kettner later today with the Leader of the Liberal Party. We obviously believe that the issue of animal surveillance and safety and public credibility of safety of products is extremely important.

That's why yesterday the Chief Medical Officer, the public health officer and the Chief Vet spoke to the people of Manitoba, both to indicate what we are doing in Manitoba and also what we're doing across the industry, the hog industry, in Manitoba.

1280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 We have some of the most sophisticated surveillance systems, according to the Canadian government. We had a number of pigs tested for influenza last year, in 2008. We have pioneered information management tools to analyze disease trends. We're also concerned, as members of the industry are, on the terminology used to describe the flu and what impact it will have on producers here in Manitoba. We obviously believe that the best people to talk about the safety of food, including pork, are the vets, the public health officers. They can speak with credibility.

So can the industry. So can the producers who are reinforcing the measures they're taking. We will continue to work with our pork industry here in Manitoba about any unintended consequences that could be quite serious for their livelihood and for their investments here in this province. Mr. McFadyen: I thank the Premier for the response. I know that we all want to do what we can, as Manitobans, to protect jobs and incomes here in our province where we can. We know that food produced in Manitoba is very safe. That's very well established.

There's no relationship between the flu outbreak in Mexico, what we now see happening, and what we now have in terms of product coming from Manitoba.

I want to just ask the Premier whether he has or will contact the Secretary of Homeland Security in the United States and any other contacts he has south of the border to ensure that what is now a health issue does not become an issue that results in lost jobs and incomes here in Manitoba, as we look at the potential for those south of the border, for some interests south of the border, to attempt to try to use this as an opportunity for protectionism as a way of keeping product out of the United States and killing jobs here in Manitoba. Mr.

Doer: We have communicated with Stockwell Day, Minister Day, and we have also communicated with Minister Cannon during their visits to Washington. We talked about the issue, generally, of the hog industry with Ambassador Wilson. I talked to him directly, along with other U.S. legislators. Certainly Minister Day is in Washington. I know he was in Washington yesterday meeting with his various counterparts, includ ing trade secretary, Mr. Kirk, who has just been appointed by the Obama administration.

I know that the Canadian government has raised the issue of the border being able to have trade between our two countries. I know we have raised, and so have our federal ministers, including up to the Prime Minister, the whole issue of country-of-origin legislation, which we worked hard on to get the right rules, and, then, subsequent to the rules being presented, there was a suggestion from the Secretary of Agriculture to allow for voluntary

interpretation of the laws which would, again, put weanlings and other parts of our industry at risk from the integrated markets that we enjoy with the United States and they enjoy with Canada. So those dialogues are going on as we speak. As I say, Trade Minister Day was in Washington yesterday. I'm not sure whether he's still there today, but we have written to him, and we have discussed this directly with the ambassador. * (13:50) Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Premier for that response.

We would certainly urge him and others to do whatever they can to contact their connections south of the border to make sure that we are strongly promoting Manitoba food, which is known to be safe.

I would just want to ask the Premier: In light of the current flu outbreak, which is unfortunately labelled, but it comes on the heels of both lower prices for commodities, the country-of-origin labelling which the Premier has referred to, the challenges for transportation resulting from the closure of Highway 75, all of these factors combining to create yet another very difficult year for an industry that puts food on the table for thousands of Manitobans, I want to ask the Premier whether there is any work being done to provide support for that industry in the event that factors beyond its control result in threats to the livelihood of these thousands of Manitoba families.

Mr. Doer: Well, Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time that certain food products have been labelled with safety issues through public perception. The best way we know how to deal with that is the fact that we know that the consumer in the United States and Canada has a great deal of confidence in the food products. Any kind of surveys that have been done south of the border have indicated that a Canadian label is considered with great credibility by the consumers in the United States. It's considered with a great deal of credibility in Japan. It's considered with a great deal of credibility in Mexico.

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1281 It's considered with a great deal of credibility in Korea. So it is important for us, as the member opposite has identified, to deal with the perception issue with the labelling of the disease, that this is clearly not a food safety issue. It is certainly an issue that we have to manage. We will work with the Canadian government because all the producers across Canada will be affected. All the producers in the United States will be affected.

All the producers, dare I say, in Mexico will be impacted, and we will obviously have to work with knowledgeable third party experts like the public health officer, like the Chief Vet, to reinforce with all members of the public that the issues of food safety are ones of perception, not ones of reality. Agriculture Environmental Programs Funding Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Last week in Estimates, the Minister of Agriculture said there would be $18.8 million in joint federal-provincial funding over five years for environmental programs related to agriculture.

Moreover, the Province says: We'll now be looking after the formerly done, well-respected Farm Stewardship Association in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, given that the Province is now looking after this very important program, could the Minister of Agriculture tell this House what our farmers can expect as a result of this funding announcement and environmental projects compared to past years? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr.

Speaker, I want to begin by giving a lot of credit to the farmers of Manitoba who did environmental plans at an unprecedented rate in comparison to other provinces. There has been a tremendous amount of work. As I indicated to the member in Estimates, we have just signed the framework agreement, and there are terms and conditions in it, and we are working out the details of how each of those programs will be developed. We have worked in very close consultation with the producers.

As we were developing the Growing Forward program, producers had the opportunity for input, and, as we go forward and develop final plans, producers will also have input. Mr. Eichler: The federal government, according to the Estimates process, is putting in $10.8 million. The Province is putting $8 million into the program over a five-year comparison. The Saskatchewan agricultural producers will have access to $32-million worth of joint funding from [inaudible] programs, which is considerably more environmental dollars being made available than for our Manitoba producers. Mr.

Speaker, why is this minister blaming the federal government, when Saskatchewan came up with a better deal for their farmers while our own minister has failed our producers by dropping the ball on this important issue? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure what the member is talking about when he said I'm blaming the federal government. I haven't blamed the federal government. The member talks about how much money is going into Saskatchewan. He will remember that Saskatchewan's agriculture is about two and a half times the size of Manitoba. So, proportionately, we are getting our share of the money, Mr. Speaker.

If you look proportionately at the money that we have received in comparison to other provinces, we have gotten slightly more than the size of our agriculture production in comparison to Saskatchewan. So, if you look at the size of the industry, of course Saskatchewan would get more money than Manitoba, but we have a package of money that will help us work with Manitoba producers. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, they expect our provincial government to negotiate joint programs to provide maximum benefits to both our agricultural producers and to our environment.

The federal government has provided Manitoba with $4 billion– $4 billion, Mr. Speaker–of transfer payments to help with important programs just like these, yet there seems to be fewer dollars available to help our producers protect the environment. Mr. Speaker, this government has failed. This minister has failed our agricultural producers. Shame on this government. Shame on this minister. I ask the minister: What steps are taken to ensure that Manitoba producers have access to funding beneficial management practices? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the member opposite would say that this government has failed our producers. I would ask him to look at the record.

1282 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 It is in this department that we had the highest percentage of overexpenditure because we are standing by our producers during difficult times. We have stood by them and we will stand by them, Mr. Speaker. We have stood by them and have worked with them on environmental practices, and, as the details of the progra m are worked out, we will consult with the producers. In fact, Keystone Agricultural Producers were just in Ottawa getting their slant on how they want this program to be delivered. It's not all finalized, Mr.

Speaker, but we will work with the producers and there will be a program there and Manitoba has gotten their fair share. Would I like more, Mr. Speaker? Absolutely. I would like the National Water Program to be in there, which the federal government did not put in. Manitoba Sustainable Agricultural Practices Program Public Communication of Details Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr. Speaker, the spring planting season is just around the corner.

Many producers are finalizing their plans in terms of which crops to plant as well as machinery and equipment purchasing decisions, and we know the livestock industry is facing many challenges. The MAFRI Estimates book references the Manitoba Sustainable Agricultural Practices Program. Unfortunately, details of this program have not been made public and producers are forging ahead without knowledge of the program. I'd like to ask the minister: When will details of this particular program be announced? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr.

Speaker, we've finalized the bilateral agreement on the Growing Forward portion, which includes the environmental portion, just at the end of the last fiscal year, at the end of March. As I had indicated in Estimates, and I will indicate again, we are working through the details of how those programs will be delivered and what will be available, and we will work with the producers, as we have in the past, to design the programs. We will work with the producers and that will be available very soon, Mr. Speaker. Carbon Credits Trading Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, we have already effectively lost at least one year in between programs. Now, it appears that greenhouse gas reductions will be targeted under this new program. Producers need to know which best management practices will be offered under this program, so that proper management decisions are taken. Mr. Speaker, producers an d the industry are also making decisions regarding the trading of carbon credits without the knowledge of the program. I ask the minister: How will this new program affect the industry's ability to trade carbon credits? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Certainly, Mr. Speaker, there are discussions going on on carbon credits and how they should be traded. Some producers are making a decision on selling their land off. As I said to the member in Estimates, people have to be very careful when they are selling these credits because there are some risks. There isn't all of the framework in place that should be. But our government has taken the lead. The member knows full well that this government supports the cap and trade model, and we will continue to work in that model.

But, as far as producers selling and making decisions, although there is some trading being done in the Chicago Climate Exchange, there are still a lot of details to work out. And, again, I say to the member we have just signed the agreement. We have not lost a year because the funds that were there last year will carry over, Mr. Speaker. * (14:00) Mr. Cullen: Well, Mr. Speaker, other provinces have been trading carbon credits for some time now and many Manitoba producers are trading carbon credits. Mr.

Speaker, producers and, in fact, the entire industry needs to understand the role that this government will play in the new program; in turn, how will the policy developed by the government impact the ability of the industry to buy and sell carbon credits. I want to ask the minister specifically: If a producer signs up for a BMP under this program,

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1283 does he give up his right to trade his carbon credit and, furthermore, does he give up any future increase in the value of that credit? Ms. Wowchuk: This is a very interesting area and lots of people are interested. There is information on the Web site. The member asked me this question in Estimates, if a producer takes advantage of BMP funding, will the producer get the credit or will the government get the credit, and I said to him then and I will say it to him now, if the government is paying, the government will get the credit.

So those are the things th at the producers have to be very careful on, and we spelt that out. Those credits, you have to figure out who pays for it, and those are the things that are being worked out. Details will be worked out with the producers as we move forward, Mr. Speaker. Cattle Industry Presence of Anaplasmosis Disease Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Since January, the Canada Food Inspection Agency has been testing cattle herds in the rural municipalities of Lac du Bonnet and Alexa nder for the presence of anaplasmosis disease in the animals.

As of last week, five farms in the area had infected animals. So I ask the Minister of Agriculture: Can she provide the House with an update? How many animals are infected and is the disease under control? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Yes, indeed, there has been testing for anaplasmosis and there are herds that have been quarantined until the results are available. I do not have the specifics of the number of cattle that are tested, but I can return to the House and provide that member with the information. Mr. Hawranik: I thank the minister for that. Mr.

Speaker, anaplasmosis has been detected in Canadian cattle only seven times since 1969, yet five cattle herds are infected in the Lac du Bonnet-Alexander areas. I also understand that infected animals are being culled from their herd and slaughtered. I ask the Minister of Agriculture: Will she ensure that the farmers whose cattle are being slaughtered are adequately compensated to ensure their continued survival? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr.

Speaker, in each case when there is disease control or infection control that has to happen, if it involves CFIA, there is a formula in place on how people–if their herds are disposed of, as to how they will be compensated, and that is the same thing that happens now. Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, anaplasmosis is a disease that destroys red blood cells and produces symptoms such as anemia and jaundice. The cattle infected with this disease are being slaughtered and their meat is entering the food chain for human consumption.

So I ask the Minister of Agriculture: Is she satisfied that the checks and balances are in place for the protection of our food supply? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that neither CFIA nor the Chie f Veterinarian in this province would put our food chain at risk. There are rules that are in place when you are dealing with a specific case of an infection or virus or anaplasmosis. Those rules are being followed, and I do not believe that there is any compromise of our food system. Bill 2 Enforcement Concerns Mrs.

Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): A constituent of mine, Dave Shelvey, has raised some important questions with regard to Bill 2, The Animal Care Amendment Act. Mr. Shelvey's business has received designation as a Manitoba Star Attraction by Travel Manitoba. He is well respected in our province, the country and the United States as a skilled breeder and an exporter of reptiles. Mr. Speaker, what assurances can the Minister of Agriculture give Mr. Shelvey that animal protection officers inspecting his reptiles will have the knowledge base to make an accurate assessment of how they are being cared for? Hon.

Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Mr. Speaker, I have received a copy of a letter from Mr. Shelvey. Mr. Shelvey raises reptiles and he is concerned that people may not have the expertise that he has. I can assure the member that this bill is not about shutting down businesses. This bill is about people being able to know where their pets are coming from and that they are raised in a safe environment. I can assure the member opposite that the staff and the inspectors will work closely with Mr. Shelvey and draw on the expertise that he has. Mrs. Rowat: Mr. Speaker, Mr.

Shelvey had presented some correspondence to committee, has

1284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 also met with somebody in the department, and still has some very serious questions. Mr. Shelvey is a key supplier of reptiles for the Assiniboine Zoo, as well as to the retailers in Manitoba and beyond. There is also a high demand within the entertainment industry for his animals and his related experience. Mr. Speaker, with respect to inspectors, could the minister clarify when, under Bill 2, a vet will be required to inspect Mr. Shelvey's operation?

Will it be done on an annual basis, or will it be done if a concern is raised about the way the animal is being cared for? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, as the member has indicated, Mr. Shelvey has raised some issues. Staff have met with him to talk those issues through, and we recognize that he has a lot of experience with the reptile industry. He supplies an important product to the Assiniboine Zoo and to other parts of Canada. We will work very closely, and staff will determine with him when an inspection is necessary and what steps he should follow once the bill is passed. Mrs. Rowat: Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to hear the minister say that her staff will continue to work with this individual, because her staff have indicated the bill is going through as is. Mr. Shelvey has been in the business for 15 years, and he knows that if he wants to stay in business he has to sell healthy animals. The amendments state that licences will be required for breeders and retailers in Manitoba. Will the Minister of Agriculture tell the House whether businesses outside of the province who sell to Manitoba will be required to obtain a Manitoba licence before any business transactions can be made?

We haven't gotten any answers yet from this minister, Mr. Speaker. I'm giving her an opportunity now. Ms. Wowchuk: The member talks about whether– but she's happy that the bill is going to pass. I hope we can move that bill along. It is important. It is a bill that we have brought forward in recognition of comments made by many people about how animals are treated, where animals are raised and how they should be treated, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Shelvey has had the opportunity to raise his concerns. My staff have met with him, and we will continue to work with him to ensure that he has a viable business.

Those are the steps we have to take. The member seems to imply that we haven't talked to him, in one breath; in the next breath she says we've talked to him. Yes, we have talked to him, we've heard his concerns, and we will continue to work with him. Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Driver's Licences Recall Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, can the Minister responsible for Manitoba Public Insurance tell the House how many driver's licences had to be recalled and reprinted because MPI made a spelling mistake, and how much is it costing the ratepayers? Hon.

Gord Mackintosh (Acting Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): I'll take that question as notice on behalf of the minister, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Graydon: This careless error is just one of many examples of how badly this government has mismanaged MPI, Mr. Speaker. Whether they're spending $13 million on enhanced ID cards that very few people want, raising vehicle registration fees by 150 percent or buying a shopping mall for $81 million, this NDP government has proven time and time again it can't manage our Crown corporations, especially MPI.

Can the minister explain how Manitobans are supposed to have any confidence that the enhanced driver's licences will be functional and secure and when will MPI even handle regular driver's licences? Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, we don't accept the basis of the question whatsoever. It sounds to me like a speech to sell MPI, once again, from members opposite. Members on this side and Manitobans are going to be able to continue to support MPI because of its record of having among the lowest rates anywhere on the continent and, I understand, among the lowest rates, if not the lowest rates, in this country.

I also remind members opposite that it is under this government's watch that MPI has been sending cheques back to Manitobans, Mr. Speaker, because of the rates. At the same time, there are coverage improvements that are under way. * (14:10)

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1285 Mr. Graydon: Mr. Speaker, the minister would know that according to MPI's latest annual report, Manitoba no longer has the lowest average insurance rates in the country. What Manitoba does have is an insurance company that is wasting millions of dollars of ratepayers' money on poor decisions like enhanced ID cards that nobody wants and downtown shopping malls. Can the minister explain to MPI ratepayers how much cheaper our auto insurance would be if this government quit wasting ratepayers' money on careless mistakes and poor decisions? Mr.

Mackintosh: My understanding is that Manitobans are finding the option useful, as one that is being offered to them. It's not mandatory, of course. Again, Mr. Speaker, I know members opposite don't like the fact that the corporation is so financially solid that it's providing such service to Manitobans. We are continuing to look at ways to enhance those services, continuing to look at how we can better lower the demands on the cost for ratepayers, which is why auto theft in this province, in no small way, has dramatically, precipitously fallen.

It is because of the partnership that MPI has played in this province. Mr. Speaker, we will not be selling MPI. Swine Flu Screening Protocols Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Health: The incubation period for an infection is a period after someone comes in contact with the infection and before they become symptomatic. Knowing the precise incubation period for the new strain of influenza virus is going to be very important. The normal incubation period for influenza is 18 to 36 hours with occasionall y up to four days.

I ask the minister: Has the new H1N1 influenza viral strain been determined to have the same incubation period as traditional for influenza A? Are there outliers? Are there people who can become stable carriers, all the things which would be very important to know. Can the minister tell us the precise protocol which is involved, when somebody comes from Mexico to Manitoba, to make sure that they're properly screened and that Manitobans don't become infected? Hon.

Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): I can assure the member that specific epidemiological questions about the nature of this illness will be addressed by our provincial Chief Medical Officer of Health at the briefing th is afternoon. He can ask those questions. I wouldn't purport to answer medical questions. I can say to him that, of course, as everyone following the coverage of this illness, there are varying opinions. I can let the member know, of course, that as per our pandemic preparedness plans, there are protocols in plac e for our first responders, for our front-line workers.

Infection control measures are in place and are being emphasized in the name of this particular illness. Mr. Gerrard: Where is the plan? Why don't you table it? Why don't you give us the basic details of this influenza strain? We know that there's a lot of confusion. The public needs to know if you're going to be able to plan properly to deal with people coming from Mexico to Manitoba. We have, may have, quite a number of farm workers and others coming here.

We need a precise protocol so that during the incubation period, anybody coming from an area where there are people who've been infected can be followed until we make sure that they don't infect Manitobans or animals in Manitoba which may be susceptible. What are the precise protocols? What is the minister doing? She needs to let people know. Will she? Ms. Oswald: Well, yes, Mr. Speaker, of course we've committed to provide a briefing every day on the issues and developments concerning this illness. We know that there are protocols in place with Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

There are protocols in place for people coming into the country at borders. I would think the member, as a doctor, would know that with human-to-human contact of this particular illness and its spread into many of the United States now that the sole concern isn't only about Mexico; it's about other sources as well. I'm sure he would know that. We have plans in place from infection control, from communications, from surveillance, all the way across the board, as we had prepared for in our pandemic plan.

1286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 I encourage the member to ask specific health questions to Dr. Kettner later as we have provided him the opportunity to do so. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Brian Postl's Salary Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Yesterday I asked the Premier the question, how many tax dollars are being used to pay the CEO of Winnipeg Regional Health Authority? He indicated: "I assume the number is public." Mr. Speaker, you know what happens sometimes if you assume something. Well, Mr.

Speaker, does the Premier support the public's right to know how many tax dollars are being given to Dr. Brian Postl, including the tax dollars used to fund his pension and any other source of income that is derived from tax dollars? Does the Premier believe that the public has a right to know? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Yes, and I also think the public has a right to the balance that is necessary, comparing salaries with a pediatrician and other CEOs of other major health corporations. I think Dr. Postl's salary–as I said, he's a pediatrician–is in the middle.

There are salaries of over $700,000 in some provinces with other issues of bonuses. Dr. Postl's salary, I believe, is going to be made public in June of this year. Everybody's salary should be public. I don't know whether the member has FIPPA'd it or not, but it is public information. Hometown Manitoba Update Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): It seems when members opposite do get around to asking questions related to agriculture, their primary objective is to so discord and plant false information on the record, as was the case with the question from their critic, the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Eichler).

This government has been a champion for rural Manitobans, which includes people in rural communities. Last week, the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives announced the results of another rural success story, and that is Hometown Manitoba, a program begun by her as our minister. Could the minister provide the House with an update on this important program? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minis ter of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): Indeed, I thank the member for this question, because it gives me the opportunity to talk about Hometown Manitoba, a program that was launched in 2004, Mr.

Speaker, a program that has had more than 1,440 applications that have been approved. This year, the investment, Mr. Speaker, will be $751,000, and in three categories: meeting places, main street enhancement and, in fact, this year we've added a new category of tree planting. Mr. Speaker, 365 applications, one for every day of the year, have been approved and we will see improvements right across rural Manitoba. I would encourage every constituent in rural Manitoba to look at that program and try to get applications from their area, because it will help your community. Highway 75 Morris Bypass Mrs.

Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, residents and stak eholders need answers when it comes to Highway 75 and flood proofing. In Estimates last week, the Premier said, and I quote: ". . . but a bypass has to go past St. Jean. It's not a perimeter highway around Morris." When asked about plans to keep Highway 75 open during flood events, the Premier also said: "It won't be around Morris. The water is over the highway from Morris to St. Jean." Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr.

Lemieux): When is he going to announce his plans for a bypass starting south of Morris at St. Jean? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I want to point out that two of the routes that are being contemplated by the Department of Infrastruct ure include requirements for the Letellier Bridge, but three don't, so I would point that out as well. The issue of Morris, I know there's a lot of–first of all, Morris, I believe, lost 14 days in '96 and lost 44 days in '97. We've lost one day in '05, 18 days in '06 and, obviously, a lot more this year. So the issue of transportation on Highway 75 is very important.

I know members opposite tried to buy land in the 1990s, and then when people were concerned about it in Morris, in terms of their businesses, they stopped the purchase of land. * (14:20) Mrs. Taillieu: Mr. Speaker, in Estimates last week, the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) said, stay tuned, when asked when he

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1287 would be announcing plans for Highway 75. The people in Morris have been waiting for three years since the last flood, and if he hasn't been working on this for the last three years, he should have been. Mr. Speaker, when is the minister going to announce the plan for Highway 75, either through Morris, west of Morris, east of Morris, or is he just waiting for a photo op like he did on Highway 2? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the members opposite, in government in the 1990s, started to purchase land and then stopped. We know that we've done a lot of work on the bridge.

It would have to be 12 feet high. It would only get to Morris. It would go across the Morris River. It would deal with the Red River flooding, but it wouldn't deal with the flooding between St. Jean and the Plum River and the other parts of Highway 75. So we're now looking at a west route and an east route, a number of routes, Mr. Speaker. There's going to be extensive–I would say that even with the Letellier Bridge, one landowner has held us up for a couple of years. One landowner has held us up for a c o u p l e o f y e a r s , s o t h i s i s n o t a s s i m p l e a s t h e member opposite described.

It's not simply the issue of Morris. It's broader, wider, longer and more expensive than just Morris, Mr. Speaker. St. Norbert Bypass Future Plans Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Well, Mr. Speaker, in Estimates, when questioned about the plan for Highway 75, the Premier indicated there was an issue at St. Norbert. The Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux) denied there was a bypass around St. Norbert but did say, and I quote, but that's not to say that in years to come or in the future that that is seriously going to have to be looked at. Mr.

Speaker, I know the department has plans on the books many years in advance of a project being completed. Can the Minister of Infrastructure indicate today if there are future plans to bypass St. Norbert? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, there are five issues of transportation: the twinning to the Saskatchewan border, the interchange at Highway 16, the northwest

section around the airport. There's a weakness at Headingley that has to be dealt with. There's also a weakness at St. Norbert where the Perimeter Highway is inside the city, as opposed to outside the city, and, yes, there's a weakness at Highway 75: 18 days, 44 days in the 1990s, something close to that in this decade. That is one of our tr ansportation weaknesses. There are four or five weaknesses. We're slowly dealing with them. The twinning is done. The Highway 16 interchange is agreed upon and moving. The northwest quadrant around the airport, check. We've got that agreement with the federal government.

We're also dealing with the other three issues. Headingley, St. Norbert and Morris, Mr. Speaker. Charity Raffles Licensing Fees Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): A community in my constituency wants to hold a charity raffle to raise money for a new arena, but this government is taking $4,500 in licensing fees right off the top; $4,500 is a lot of money to take from a community raffle. Can the Minister responsible for the Gaming Commission explain why his government is so addicted to gaming revenues that he's taking thousands of dollars from community charities? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): On behalf of the Gaming Minister, certainly, this government is interested in allowing communities to engage in raffles in various ways to raise money. I don't know details. If the Member for Minnedosa wants to provide those, we can provide a better answer, but, indeed, it's very important that we do have a system in place that allows anyone who purchases a ticket on any draw, on any raffle, to know that it is being conducted appropriately and fairly so there's an equal chance of being successful. Mrs.

Rowat: Manitoba distributed less of its gaming revenues to charity than almost any other province this last year. That's not a record this government should be very proud of. Fewer charity gaming licences are issued in Manitoba than almost any other province, Mr. Speaker. The message is clear. This NDP government only supports gaming activities if they're the ones profiting from it. The community is doing its part to raise funds for a much-needed arena. It's discouraging that this government wants to stand in

1288 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 the way and demand nearly $5,000 simply for a raffle licence. Can the minister explain why his government takes such a big cut of charity gaming revenues when other provinces take much, much less? Mr. Swan: Certainly it's possible for communities, for groups, to conduct raffles and draws which, again, are conducted under the auspices of the Gaming Commission and, indeed, it's possible for those communities to raise money for very good purposes. Mr. Speaker, I do take exception at the Member for Minnedosa talking about Lotteries.

The Manitoba Lotteries Commission actually has a tremendous record of putting money back into every single community represented in this Legislature, and I know that in Souris, in Minnedosa, in various communities that the member herself represents, Lotteries is very pleased to be providing money into the communities to support things which I believe everybody in this House can support. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Leona Nickel Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a very special constituent of mine. On April 14, Mrs.

Leona Nickel was presented with Altona's 2009 Volunteer of the Year award for her endless hours of volunteer work over the past many years. Volunteers play a key role in keeping rural communities like Altona thriving. When a volunteer has risen above the rest, went above and beyond what is expected of them just out of pure kindness, they will be rewarded. Mrs. Leona Nickel has been a behind-the-scenes volunteer for many years a nd, more recently, shared a paid position in palliative care. She has taken

part in the palliative care since the death of her mother many years ago. Since that time, she has served in the capacity as a palliative care support facilitator, a bereavement support and grief support facilitator. Leona was a church board member for many years in Altona where she taught Sunday school and was a girls' group leader, also a Bible study leader and a Presbyterian representative. She's also an active member in the choir and has been for 30 years. In 1991, Leona's mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and later became a resident in the Eastview Personal Care Home.

Leona visited her mother often and noticed how few programs were in place for the residents. This was all the prompting she needed and has been organizing singsongs and musical jamborees, as well as weekly bun making, ever since. In 2004, Mr. Speaker, the Alzheimer Society presented Leona with a distinguished member award for her involvement in fundraising and programming dating back since 1994. She's a volunteer facilitator for a monthly support group for family and friends of Alzheimer's patients in Altona.

She also volunteers her time organizing bake sales, raffles, workshops and doing presentations on Alzheimer's disease to grade 3 classes. I would like the members of the House to join me in congratulating Leona Nickel for receiving the Altona 2009 volunteer award. She is an epitome of volunteers. She never wants to be front and centre, but she has no problem rolling up her sleeves, stepping in where she's needed. Congratulations, Leona. Portuguese War Veterans Memorial Ms. Flor Marcelino (Wellington): Winnipeg will soon become the home to North America's first memorial for Portugues e war veterans. The Winnipeg

Chapter of the Portuguese Association of War Veterans is an association which works with Portuguese war veterans in Manitoba. After becoming established five years ago, the veterans, under the leadership of the association's president, Pedro Correia, decided that it is but fitting to build a memorial to recognize Portuguese war veterans. There are over 400 war veterans currently living in the province, and they all served during the Portuguese colonial wars in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau from 1961 to 1974.

This memorial will honour past, present and future veterans who not only fight in wars but are also a part of NATO and several peacekeeping missions around the world. This monument is scheduled to be unveiled in the second week of September at the Chapel Lawn Memorial Gardens in Headingley. This location was a generous donation by the cemetery which reco gnized the importance of

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1289 this memorial to the Portuguese community in Manitoba. On March 21, 2009, Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege of attending a fundraising dinner, along with the honourable Member for St. James (Ms. Korzeniowski), who presented the association with a cheque for $10,000 to support the memorial project. It was held at the Portuguese Centre on Young Street, one of the community centres of pride in the Wellington constituency. Speaking of community centres, I have not seen many community organizations like this one, Mr. Speaker.

The Portuguese Centre's operating expenses are fully funded and supported by its members. This is truly admirable and a clear testament to the character of their members. The community supports each other, and they're willing to work together to undertake the upkeep of the organization. I would like to wish the Portuguese War Veterans Association of Manitoba all the best, and look forward to attending the unveiling of the memorial in September. Thank you. * (14:30) Brandon's Ranking as Best Place to Live in Canada Mr.

Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): It's with a great deal of pride that I rise today to extol the virtues of my city, Brandon. It is, without question, the finest small city in which to raise a family and enjoy a superb quality of life. Mr. Speaker, don't take my word for it. Brandon is one of Canada's top 10 cities to live in, according to MoneySense magazine. In order to create its list, the magazine considers 24 factors that affect basic quality of life. Brandon has all the amenities of a big city, but it retains its small-town atmosphere.

People still know their neighbours and neighbours still help their neighbours. Brandon boasts a un iversity, Assiniboine Community College, an arts centre and a one-of-a- kind convention and recreation facility, the Keystone Centre. And who can forget, Mr. Speaker, the Brandon Wheat Kings and the Brandon University Bobcats. With a population of 48,000 people, Brandon was the smallest city to make it to the top 10 list, as it enjoys many qualities that big cities do not. MoneySense magazine commended Brandon for having one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, as well as affordable housing prices.

That, combined with short commute times to work, allows residents to live without stress that residents of large cities have to deal with on a daily basis. This was not the first time Brandon has made it to the top 10 list, as Brandon was featured previously in Chatelaine magazine's top 10 cities. Even though Brandon is forced to endure a harsh winter, which does not favour our position on the list, the city makes up for it, Mr. Speaker, with its warm, friendly western Canadian hospitality. Mr.

Speaker, I'm very pleased that Brandon has been included in MoneySense's list of top 10 Canadian cities in which to live. I, and many other residents of my community, have known this for many years that Brandon is a world class city in which to live and to prosper, and now, perhaps, the rest of the country can play catch up with the city of Brandon. Safeway Men's Curling Championships Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to draw attention of the House to two recent sporting event championships ho sted by the Selkirk community. First, Mr.

Speaker, the 2009 Safeway Men's Curling Championships was held in Selkirk February 18 to 22. The winner was the Jeff Stoughton team who defeated the Kerry Burtnyk team 7-6 in the final. Joining Jeff Stoughton was third, Kevin Park; second, Rob Fowler; and lead, Steve Gould. As members will know, the Stoughton team followed up their win in Selkirk with a very successful run at the Tim Horton Brier, where they made it to the championship final losing to the powerful Kevin Martin team. Mr. Speaker, also, we were pleased to host the Telus Cup, April 20 to 26.

Six teams from across Canada competed in the championship with the Winnipeg Thrashers acting as the host team. After a week of exciting, fast hockey, the team from Québec won the bronze, the Calgary Buffaloes won the silver and the Notre Dame Hounds the gold. Both events were great successes. Large crowds were treated to first class entertainment. Volunteers and sponsors answered the call for support and ensured the event was well-run and well-funded. Our community has a proud history of hosting provincial and national sporting championships. I would like to congratulate and thank the host

1290 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 committee of the Safeway Championships, co-chair, Bonnie Schmidt; the Telus Cup chair, Rob Cox; over 500 volunteers and the many sponsors who supported these events and guaranteed their success. Mr. Speaker, I know I speak on behalf of our community when I say we lo ok forward to our next championship sporting challenge. Winnipeg Regional Health Authority Brian Postl's Salary Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, as I look to the Premier's (Mr. Doer) and the Minister of Health's (Ms.

Oswald) chai rs, I would like to put a challenge to the two of them, and that is that if you take a look at the CEO, Dr. Brian Postl, and try to get an understanding in terms of how much that particular individual receives in tax dollars on an annual basis, I believe that it is, in fact, something which the public has a right to know. In fact, if you listen to the answer that the Premier gave yesterday, the Premier, himself, has said, and I quote, I assume the number is public. Well, Mr. Speaker, here is what I can tell the Premier, and that is that, in 2006, Mr.

Postl received $387,325, as reported in one document. In 2007, he received $373,531, which gives the impression that he had a decrease in pay. I am told that he didn't have a decrease in pay, but rather he took a lump sum of money and put it into a pension in which the government is also contributing to. I've had correspondence through e-mail saying that there are additional monies, committees that he is receiving additional tax dollars. So my challenge to the Minister of Health and to the Premier is: Will they provide the actual dollar value that Dr.

Brian Postl receives on an annual basis courtesy of the taxpayers of Manitoba? The Premier, himself, said that he assumed that it was known. Well, if I am missing a document, I'm interested, will the minister or the Premier show me where there's a public document that shows the monies that Mr. Postl is receiving beyond those two figures that I've already indicated? I know there's more. I have no idea in terms of where it is that the government has hidden those figures.

I suspect it's not public, and that's the reason why I've been asking for this Minister of Health and this Premier to share, through me, to all Manitobans, just how much Dr. Postl makes at the taxpayers' expense. ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Andrew Swan (Minis ter of Competitiveness, Training and Trade): Yes, on House business, Mr. Speaker, I would ask if you could resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Mr. Speaker: Okay. We will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Would the Chairs please go to the appropriate rooms where you will be chairing.

In the Chamber will be Education, Citizenship and Youth; Room 255 will be Finance; and Room 254 will be Advanced Education and Literacy. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ADVANCED EDUCATION AND LITERACY * (14:40) Madam Chairperson (Marilyn Brick): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Advanced Education and Literacy. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): No, I think in the interests of time, I will not make an opening statement. Madam Chairperson: I thank the minister. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet, have an opening statement? Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): No.

I'd waive the opening statement in the interest of brevity and just indicate to the minister that we would like to proceed on a global basis first and then go line by line later. Madam Chairperson: We thank the critic. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for the department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 44.1.(

a) and proceed with consideration of the remaining items referenced in resolution 44.1.

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1291 At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Ms. McGifford: Madam Chair, shall I then introduce the staff?

To my immediate left is Heather Reichert, who is the Deputy Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy; and then sitting behind is Sid Rogers, who is the Secr etary to the Council on Post-Secondary Education; Tom Glenwright, who is the Executive Director of Manitoba Student Aid; and next to him is Lynette–I'm going to get it–Lynette Plett, who is the Executive Director of Adult Learning and Literacy; Andrew Henry, who is manager, Finance and Administration; Josh Watt from the Council on Post-Secondary Education; and Margaret McDonald from the Council on Post- Secondary Education.

Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister for introducing her staff. Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of the department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mr. Hawranik: Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I'd like to have a global discussion first, then go line by line. We've traditionally done that in this department, as we do in other departments as well, and I would ask that we do that. Ms. McGifford: Yes, that's fine with us. Thank you.

Madam Chairperson: Then it is agreed that we will proceed in a global manner, with all resolutions to be passed once the questioning has been completed. Agreed? [Agreed] The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Hawranik: If I could ask the minister, within the last 12 months–and she may not be able to answer that here, in this forum; she may have to get back to me, I acknowledge that–but within the last 12 months, can she indicate to me who has left the department and who has joined the department in the last 12 months and, where, specifically, have they come from, whether they've come from other departments or they were new hires, and if she can give me that information? As I say, she may not have that information today, but I'd appreciate that at some point in time. Ms. McGifford: Madam Chair, we just have totals.

The total staff hired in '08-09 was 22, broken down as follows: via competition, 17; via direct appointment, 4; via Order-in-Council, 1. If the member would like me to comment on the Order-in-Council appointment, I can do so. Mr. Hawranik: Yes. Ms. McGifford: That's my–would the member like me to comment? Mr. Hawranik: Sure. Ms. McGifford: That's my executive assistant, and her name is Liz Parsons. Mr. Hawranik: Further to that, in terms of the numbers, if–and as I say, she may not be able to answer today, but I'd like to get an indication as to who has joined and who has left, specifically.

Out of those 22 staff members who have joined, and others who may have left, where they have come from, which departments, perhaps, if they came out of province, or not, that kind of thing, and all in the last 12 months. So I'd appreciate getting that at some point in time. I don't need it today, but, certainly, if I could have that within a reasonable period of time. Ms. McGifford: Would the member like those individuals identified by name or merely where they came from? Mr. Hawranik: I think both.

If I could get by name and where they came from, whether they were a lateral transfer within government or they were new hires, and that kind of thing. So I'd appreciate that. In terms of the vacancy rate within the department, can the minister indicate what the vacancy rate is at this point? Ms. McGifford: Yes. It's approximately 4.5 percent. Mr. Hawranik: Can the minister indicate what the target vacancy rate is for the year? Ms. McGifford: Madam Chair, it is approximately 4.5 percent. Mr. Hawranik: In terms of vacancy at 4.5 percent, how many positions would that be within the department? Ms.

McGifford: That's four to five positions, simple math, right here. Mr. Hawranik: Madam Chair, does the minister keep statistics in terms of graduation rates within the post-secondary institutions, in particular, immigrant student graduation rates? Ms. McGifford: Well, I think staff are looking through that information. But one of the things that

1292 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 the member would probably know is that I'm almost certain that universities and colleges don't call on individuals to identify themselves as immigrants, just as they don't call upon individuals to identify themselves as Aboriginal. It's self-selection, so it's very hard to keep track of all of those figures. Having said that, I do have some graduation levels.

For example, the latest–or the earliest, depending on your perspective–they go back is 2007, at which time there were 6,910 university graduates and 4,093 college graduates, for a total of 11,003 post-secondary education graduates. Those are from the public system. We don't have figures for the private system. So I don't have '08 figures for the member. But I don't have them broken down in terms of how many were Aboriginal, how many were immigrant, how many were whatever, because that isn't part of the identification system. * (14:50) Mr.

Hawranik: I would expect that the minister keeps records in terms of whether they are resident or non-resident of Manitoba. If she could provide me with the graduation rates that have been identified within the public post-secondary institutions with respect to non-residents versus residents. Ms. McGifford: We'll have to look for those figures and get back to the members. I know we have–I believe we have the numbers of international students who graduated, but I appreciate that non- resident and international are quite different.

For example, we have students from British Columbia who are non-resident but not international. Mr. Hawranik: We're calling them international students, so that's what I'm after, actually, is the graduation rates for international students. Ms. McGifford: Now it would appear I have the enrolments for international students but not necessarily the graduation rates. Is the member interested in the enrolment numbers? Mr. Hawranik: No, I’d be interested in the graduation rates of international students. If you don't have that number handy, as I say, I would appreciate you getting back to me at some point in time. Ms.

McGifford: We will attempt to get those numbers from the universities and colleges. I'm assuming they have them; they haven't shared them with us to date. Mr. Hawranik: I thank the minister for that. I refer to a comment ma de by Ovide Mercredi done in 2007. I'd like to have the minister's comment with regard to it. That's Chancellor Mercredi who indicated that the University College of the North should lower its entrance standards with a goal to increase access for Aboriginal people, and I would suspect that the minister knows about those comments.

I'd like to hear the minister's view with respect to that at the university. Ms. McGifford: This question was brought to the table last year as well. I believe, first of all, Chancellor Me rcredi was quoted out of context, and I believe his point was that if students aren't ready for university or college, it is incumbent, especially on an institution like University College of the North to provide bridging programs in order to allow those students to access university and/or college.

So his point was that preparation may be necessary and a lack of preparation should not preclude a student from attending university or co llege, but the college or university should provide them with this bridging education. Mr. Hawranik: The minister may appreciate I'm not necessarily critical of Mr. Mercredi's comments.

The reason I bring up the question is there are numbers of other universities in Canada, and in particular Athabasca University in Alberta, that admit some students to university, who haven't even graduated from Grade 12 and don't have an equivalency, provided they have additi onal work experience that would be relevant to taking courses at the university like that. It's called an open university, and I'm sure the minister knows what that means.

In terms of an open university, is there some thought toward perhaps making University College of the North in particular–because it's really designed to help northern students who perhaps are disadvantaged in terms of location and that kind of thing and access to material s and resources–is there some thought to making University College of the North an open university similar to what might occur in Athabasca University in Alberta? Ms. McGifford: Well, there are a lot of layers to that question. First of all, I want to assure the member that I didn't take his comment as a criticism of Ovide Mercredi.

I understood he was looking for an explanation as to why this might have been said. Secondly, I think the me mber is aware that the universities have their own acts, and part of the act is

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1293 that they have control over academic matters. So they do set the standards for admission to universities. However, having said that, my understanding is that University of Winnipeg, University of Manitoba and Brandon University all have mature student progr ams where a student can attend university at the age of 21 whether he or she has completed grade 12, and the success of that student is weighed and measured, and then the student can continue.

So I'd say, in many ways, we do have an open university system at this time, but, if I may just add that the question with the initial comment, Ovide Mercredi's comment, the question there was his interest in having students not only attend university or college but be prepared to succeed in university or college. Mr.

Hawranik: Now that the minister has somewhat thawed the tuition freeze–it's not completely thawed yet, but, in any event, now that there's some progress being made toward increasing tuition fees in the province, I just ask the minister, will the government be reducing any global funding to universities with any rises in tuition or is it intended that the global funding for universities will continue and increase above inflation? Ms. McGifford: I can't really make announcements about next year's budget today. We're working with this year's budget.

But I do assure the member that this government has increased funding to universities and colleges considerably every year since we've been in government. Nobody knows where our economy is going to be next year, and I can't speak for Treasury Board or for the whole of government, but my belief is that we will continue to increase funding to universities and colleges. Mr.

Hawranik: Obviously, with increases in tuition, it seems to be a bit of a me asured increase this year, obviously, and it may accelerate in future years, but with increases in tuition, will the minister at least commit to increase funding for bursaries for lower- income students to make sure that they are compensated for that increase in tuition, at least for the increase in tuition? Ms. McGifford: Well, I'm not sure that the tuition increase was just measured. It's well in excess of CPI, for example.

The day that I announced the tuition freeze, the member may remember that I also announced $2.5 million in additional funds for university and college students. One million dollars was for special programs under our Bright Futures envelope. Another million went to the Manitoba bursary, which, by the way, is now at $9.2 million, and $500,000 went to enrich ACCESS programs. Mr. Hawranik: Does the minister have any indication as to how much the increase this year will raise for universities? Ms. McGifford: Is the member wanting to know what it'll raise for universities or universities and colleges? Mr.

Hawranik: Yes, for clarification, universities and colleges. Ms. McGifford: About $6.5 million. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): I do have a couple of questions that I was wanting to get on the record. I guess one would be related to the tuition freeze. Because it is an interesting point to time, I'm wondering if the minister could provide two figures: the average cost to take a first-year course program for a B.A. at the University of Winnipeg, University of Manitoba and Brandon University back in 1999, and that cost today. * (15:00) Ms.

McGifford: I can provide the–pardon me, may I ask the member, is it just Brandon and University of Winnipeg you want? Mr. Lamoureux: The three: Manitoba, Brandon and Winnipeg. Ms. McGifford: In 1999, the tuition at University of Manitoba was $3,376 and, thereafter, until this year, it grew to–it shrunk, pardon me, to $2,943; University of Winnipeg, 1999, $3,332 and then in '08-09, $2,998–this doesn't reflect the increase, the member, I can give you that in a second–Brandon University $3,193, shrunk to $2,847, and the increase for an arts student was approximately $135. Mr.

Lamoureux: The only other real substantial fee, and I'm talking really the first-year student, would be– they call it the ancillary fee–each university has one of those, I understand. Again, does she have the dollar value of '99 compared to 2009? Ms. McGifford: I think we do, but I just want to point out to the member, while the deputy's looking for those figures, I want to point out to the member that ancillary fees mean a lot if things, and the member may not be aware that they include, often, student fees.

They often in clude health fees that students pay, so not all of the ancillary fee goes to the institution.

1294 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, I realize that. Ms. McGifford: In 1999, the average other fees was $196, and in 2007-2008 it was $338, including health-care fees. Mr. Lamoureux: I just want to get on the record in regard to that. The other is sue that I was wanting to provide brief comment, and I understand that we're in limited potential time today, is the issue of many constituents, and I would suggest that many Manitobans, that would look at the possibilities of going abroad.

There are two countries that I would focus some attention on, possibly even a third, but that being India and the Philippines, where someone immigrates to Manitoba and then after having their child go through our public educational system, they graduate grade 12, and often they think, well, maybe it would be kind of nice to be able to go to university back in the homeland and get that first year of university or possibly more than that. But then the issue, more often than not, is: Well, if they do that are they going to be able to transfer those courses over?

I've had opportunity to have some discussions with Brandon University and the University of Winnipeg, very briefly, and it seems that there might be some movement in that direction in terms of possibly recognizing some of those types of courses. I wonder if the minister can provide comment. Realizing the academic independence of our universities, I wonder if she can just provide comment as to what her government's position would be on the issue of allowing people to go back to their homeland, get that first year and feel confident in knowing that that first-year course would, in fact, get some recognition here.

Ms. McGifford: Well, Madam Chair, of course, the member may know that several of our universities do have international agreements with other countries, and, just anecdotally speaking, my daughter, for example, went to university in France for a year. There's an exchange program between the University of Winnipeg and several French universities, and I believe that's also the case at University of Manitoba with several international locations. I also want to assure the member that, personally, I am a great champion of the internationalization of education.

I think it's very important, not only for students to come here, but for students from here to go away. In October I was in Ko rea, and I attended a conference where these matters came up. Certainly, I can't even say I've become a convert, because I've always believed in the importance of international education, not just education but professorial exchanges, projects, all of that sort of thing. I think it's very important in taking down walls and making us a more universal kind of world. As to the specific locations, India and the Philippines, as the member said, that is a matter for the universities to decide.

I'm sure that there would be lots of good will to encourage those kinds of initiatives. I actually haven't spoken to any of our presidents about exchanges with India and/or with the Philippines. I don't know whether anyone–not seeing anyone here nodding that indicates that they have, doesn't mean that it won't come about. Thank you for the idea. Mr. Lamoureux: I applaud the minister's openness to the idea. I can tell you, there's a difference in terms of that international student mentality, right or wrong–somewhat mythical to a certain degree.

You know, if I go abroad I get that education, it broadens their basic knowledge, and it gives them a difference sense of quality education. I think that there's great value to that. But quite often in some of the other countries like the Philippines and India, we just don't seem to get that same sort of recognition. It pleases me that the minister–and I would very much appreciate next year, if we could have that dialogue. I, too, in turn, will look into it more with the idea of, hopefully, that we'll see more exchanges taken between our universities both here and India and the Philippines.

I emphasize those two countries primarily because a great number of the immigrants that we are getting today and we've gotten yesterday, a lot of their children now are graduating grade 12. This is one of the options that I know more and more are looking at. I appreciate the minister's comments. I'll pass on my concerns to the universities and look forward maybe to having a more detailed dialogue next year on the issue. Ms. McGifford: I don't know very much about university education in the Philippines, but I do know that there are many distinguished universities in India, particularly in engineering and science.

Certainly there are opportun ities for our students. If our universities and colleges choose to develop those opportunities, and actually I know they have in some instances, then I welcome it. Mr. Lamoureux: I know that, for example, I note that St. Thomas or the University of Philippines–

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1295 there are universities in the Philippines, for example, that are older than Harvard and some of the more world-renowned universities. I see that the minister has an open mind, and I'll look forward to the dialogue we have next year. Mr. David Faurschou (P ortage la Prairie): I just want to clarify that the duties and responsibilities of the minister's department extend to the adult learning centres. Ms. McGifford: Yes, they do. Mr.

Faurschou: Currently there's a very active adult learning centre in Portage la Prairie in which we are, as a community member– An Honourable Member: I think there are three. Mr. Faurschou: Yes. The active adult learning centres, I will clarify that. There is more than one we are very proud of. I would like to ask the minister–level of support for the programming that ultimately leads to employment of certified t eachers in teaching the curriculum.

Could, perhaps, the minister explain what formula her department works with in order to provide what ultimately is seen as the salary or wage for the certified teachers engaged in the curriculum teaching within the adult learning centres? * (15:10) Ms. McGifford: I'm sorry. Is the member asking me how adult learning centres' salaries for teachers–the teachers at the adult learners are determined? I don't think that my department has a formula. I believe that the salaries are dependent on whether they're connected with the school system, and, therefore, follow a teacher's contract or whether they're negotiated.

Mr. Faurschou: Well, this is what still is an area of confusion for myself in trying to understand the relationships between the adult learning centres and the school divisions. I know there was a determination by the department that the school divisions would be effectively responsible for any deficits that the adult learning centres would ultimately end up with if they were the accrediting body for that particular adult learning centre. This was a recent development and there are school divisions now that are gr avely concerned.

Although the adult learning centres in Portage la Prairie have not run deficits, the Portage School Division has served notice to the adult learning centres that they will not be the accrediting body for the particular course credit recognitions. I'm just asking, though, the formula of funding for adult learning centres, do es it extend to basically providing for a certain level of wage for the accredited teachers in those facilities? Ms. McGifford: I'm little confused about the member's comments, Madam Chair, on school divisions being responsible for deficits. That certainly isn't the case.

I'm not sure of the source of this information, whether we need a little bit more information here. I'm quite confused here. Mr. Faurschou: Well, then, you'd best be communicating to the Portage la Prairie School Division. This is of grave concern to the Portage School Division, and the Portage School Division has served notice to the adult learning centres that they will not be the accred iting body for the adult learning centres in Portage la Prairie, and they have and will continue to look for institutions that they can work with.

It is an area that I am concerned about and whether it's coming from the Department of Education or Advanced Education, I don't know. Madam Chair, it is definitely a documented fact that the Portage la Prairie School Division has served notice to the Portage Learning Centre that they will no longer continue with supporting them with their accreditation based upon their exposure to deficits that the adult learning centre may have. Ms. McGifford: I'm advised that we are aware of the situation in Portage, and we are working with the particular ALC. Mr.

Faurschou: Well, then, further to that situation in Portage la Prairie, I will ask the minister about the funding formula as to whether or not there is a component within the level of support that the adult learning centre receives that considers the level of remuneration that certified teachers employed in the adult learning centres receive. Ms. McGifford: I'm advised that there is not a funding formula. Mr. Faurschou: If there is not a funding formula that takes into consideration the level of wage that teachers are paid, how then is it that the department actually funds the adult learning centres?

What is it based upon? The number of hours of instruction, the number of students, courses provided? Could the

1296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 minister elaborate on what is within the consideration towards the funding? Ms. McGifford: Well, of course, the first element of funding is a decision made by Treasury Board. This year our adult learning centres received a 4 percent increase. The way in which department people determine funding to adult learning and literacy too– of course we're responsible for literacy–is receive applications and study those applications. We're in very regular communication with the adult learning centres. I know staff visit adult learning centres.

We have statistics about adult learning centres like number of registrants, numbers of hours open, number of graduates, numbers of individual courses that are completed. Funding is determined in consideration of monies available and then all these other elements that I just described to the member. Mr. Faurschou: Is the minister in consideration of reviewing the current practices of determining the level of funding? I know she referred to Treasury Board, but I think that a clear and determined analysis should be made of the adult learning centres.

Because where the bottom line is, the level of support for an accredited high school course being delivered in adult learning centres is being funded at approximately half of what an accredited course being funded in a high school setting is at the current time. So I ask the minister if she will commit to evaluating, on a comparative basis, an accredited course delivered to a student in high school under the K-12 program and the same accredited course delivered within her department in an adult learning centre? Ms.

McGifford: Adult education and adult learning centres is less expensiv e because there's no gym, there's no bussing, there's none of the other kinds of bells and whistles that come with public school because we're talking about adults, often going to school in the evening, et cetera. If the member has some very clear information he'd like to share, I'd certainly appreciate having it. I do want to point out that I'm sure the member has read the Levin report, and I'm sure that he recalls reading that Dr.

Levin felt that adult learning centres were extremely important and was very complimentary, by the way, about our adult learning centres and suggested that we might want to go in even newer and more exciting directions and suggested a review. Since the staffperson at, who is the executive director, Lynette Flett, who's with us today, is the new person, we had decided it was a good time to do a review of adult education and we are going to do that. Mr. Faurschou: I'm very familiar with the adult learning centre having been on the school board at the time when the centres were set up in Portage.

Commitment to this type of education is absolutely vital to our province and the future of the individuals that are seeking out more education. But I just want to leave with the minister that there is in, not only Portage la Prairie, but other centres, a true feeling that even recognizing that there's no bells and whistles in here, that the department is, indeed, getting a very, very cost- effective delivery of education to a point where, perhaps, it is a little too much insofar as we do want to recognize the valuable re source that we have with the certified teachers within the program.

It is from my own personal perspective that a certified teacher should be recognized with a level of remuneration regardless of–at a level that is fair regardless of whether they're in the public school system or within the adult learning centres. * (15:20) I hope that this will be a consideration within the review. I don't believe there is anyone out there that is looking for a substantive change in how the courses are delivered but definitely the level of support for those course deliveries is being requested. Ms. McGifford: As always, I thank the member for his advice.

I want to make clear to the member that I have been unfailing in my support for adult learning and literacy. I think the community knows that. I recognize that it's an extremely important part of a seamless system. We were successful in getting bursaries from the Canadian Millennium Scholarship Foundation for adult learning. I'm really proud of our record, particularly successful in graduating Aboriginal learners. I know we need a system for adults and I think this one is working very well.

I take this opportunity on the record to thank all the teachers who do work so hard and industriously on the part of adult learning and adults, young and old, in Manitoba. I've just learned myself–one of my staff members has done some checking–that there is no deficit in the Portage centre that was alluded to

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1297 earlier. Apparently, there's some concern that there may be, but there is no deficit and we're certainly working with these people. So I think the member needn't be alarmist or worry about that. Thank you. Mr. Faurschou: I said that there was the potential for it, recognizing that there is no deficit, but, obviously, the Portage la Prairie School Division, with the change in responsibility for a deficit, is concerned to a point where effectively they've asked the centre to look for a different accrediting body. That's the fact.

If you want to take all the time in the world to try and dispute the fact, so be it, but in any event it is the change in policy. The other consideration I have here is another change in policy by the department, and, as the minister is aware that her department does support continuing education, in Portage la Prairie starting this September there will be a licensed practical nursing program offered through Assiniboine College, and there has been a change in policy by her department in the level of support for individuals seeking to advance themselves through a career in education.

The previous program that was offered in rural Manitoba, persons that did have gainful employment and wanted to become a nurse were able to take the nursing program even though they did not qualify for employment insurance. That has now changed and if you don't qualify for employment insurance, you don't have that level of support if you want to go into the nursing. I would like to ask the minister why she has changed this policy in reflection upon the critical shortage of nurses in rural Manitoba. Ms.

McGifford: Well, first of all, I wanted to point out that there was no change in policy regarding adult learning centres. The policy has always been in place, so there was no change in policy. On the particular matter of the practical nurses, we're doing some BlackBerrying and digging because nobody is quite sure about–well, we're frankly baffled. [interjection] Oh, I beg your pardon. Apparently, I'm now told it's Competitiveness, Training and Trade. You've got the wrong department. Mr.

Faurschou: Well, it's always rather confusing as to who has what training program and what educational program and whether or not it's considered a training program or an education program or a literacy program. It's rather difficult to try and keep up with what is, in fact, happening. If there has been no change in policy as far as accrediting agencies responsible for adult learning centre deficits, then I stand to be corrected.

It was just now that the Portage school division has finally twigged on to that fact, th at they are responsible for it, and they're no longer willing to expose themselves to a potential additional cost to their division. So that's just disappointing that is the fact. So they will have to look for another accrediting body. So I will take this other matter to another minister. Thank you. Ms. McGifford: I've just explained to the member opposite that this department is responsible for college education, universi ty education, student aid and adult learning and literacy.

Apprenticeship, Rewarding Work, all those kinds of programs are now with the Minister of Competitiveness, Training and Trade (Mr. Swan). Mr. Faurschou: Well, this is an Assiniboine College program, but what you're saying is the supports for students comes from another department. Ms. McGifford: Yes, I'm informed that the sponsorship comes from CTT, yes. Mr. Hawranik: I'm glad to get back into the stream of questions, but that's what happens sometimes when you let others ask questions.

I don't have a lot of time, so I'd like to be able to keep my questions brief and the answers hopefully brief, as well, so we can get through more of these. In 2008, there was a news release issued by the government indicating that the Province would contribute $47 million towards Project Domino at the University of Manitoba. In the budget in 2008, $4 million was allocated toward Project Domino. Can the minister indicate how much money is allocated for this fiscal year to Project Domino? Ms. McGifford: Madam Chairperson, $14.5 million. Mr.

Hawranik: Is this project still on track, to be completed by the end of next year? Ms. McGifford: I'm informed that that's optimistic, that we didn't understand that to be their deadline. But, of course, it is the university who's running Project Domino, not our department. Mr. Hawranik: Is the contribution still at $47 million from the Province or is that increased?

1298 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 Ms. McGifford: Absolutely. Mr. Hawranik: With Dr. Levin's report, in terms of tuition increases, and I know that the minister has made a decision this year in terms of how much the tuition will increase at universities and colleges. What I'm concerned about is the long-term increase. I think students would be concerned about long-term increases, and I be lieve they don't plan on a year-by-year basis.

They'r e in three, four, five-year programs, long programs, and they certainly would like to know what the minister has in mind in terms of increases in the long term. Has the minister given that some thought, or is she about to make a decision, or when will she make a decision? Will she make the decision on a year-by- year basis, or will she be making a decision or an announcement soon regarding to a long-term plan? Ms. McGifford: Well, thank you for the question.

When I was asked this question by the media, when I first announced the end of the tuition freeze, I said to them that we would really have liked to have had a three-year plan, which I think would be very good, both for universities and for students. There were a couple of complicating factors. One was that the Levin report was out after the budget this year, which was unfortunate, but we accelerated the budget in response to Manitobans' need to know where we were going in this complex economy.

I also said that, given the economic climate, it was very difficult, at this time, to predict what operating funds would be and what tuition would be. I can tell the member today, as always, this government is committed to affordable, accessible education. They'll be no sticker shock. We will follow with the spirit of the Levin report, and, perhaps, the letter, in that our tuition increases will be modest. * (15:30) Mr. Hawranik: I take it from the minister's comments, that now the budget, the '09-2010 budget is out, she would be likely making a decision with respect to tuition increases on a three-year basis.

Ms. McGifford: I would like very much to be able to make that kind of recommendation to Cabinet and to Treasury Board, and my department will be working on it in the near future. We would like to have a tuition policy. I agree with the member that it is good for students to know and, as well, it's good for the other stakeholders to know, universities and colleges. Mr. Hawranik: I understand that the Adult Literacy Act came into force in January of this year, and can the minister indicate what level of financial commitment has been made in the budget with respect to the implementation of that act? Ms.

McGifford: There was a 4 percent increase to the literacy grants this year, or to the literacy program, and we have approximately $400,000 for the design and implementation of the strategy which we're currently working on. Mr. Hawranik: Getting back to Dr. Levin's report, can the minister outline the consultative process that Dr. Levin followed prior to making his report? Ms. McGifford: Well, it is in the report and I can't really speak for Dr. Levin. It was his work, but I can speak anecdotally by saying that I understand that he consulted with students. He consulted with the institutions.

He consulted with the business community. Oh, yes, he consulted with high schools, I believe, superintendents. There was also a–I can't remember the electronic term–a place where you could write–a Web site, and so individuals could write in their ideas and whatnot to Dr. Levin. Mr. Hawranik: Can the minister indicate whether or not that process was directed by the department or herself, or was it a process that was formulated by Dr. Levin himself? Ms. McGifford: Well, I just want to tell the member if he knew Dr. Levin he would know that no one directs him. He directed himself. Mr.

Hawranik: Madam Chairperson, one of the recommendations in Dr. Levin's report indicates that–one of his recommendations is that tuition fees should be increased gradually but should remain below the Canadian average. Is this one recommendation that the minister will likely be following? Ms. McGifford: I can't make a commitment to follow it or not to follow it. It will have to be considered on a go-forward basis. Mr. Hawranik: Another recommendation made by Dr.

Levin is that the Province should set targets for participation and graduation from post-secondary education at levels above national averages with equitable participation from all social and economic groups.

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1299 Madam Chairperson, can the minister indicate if she's going to follow this recommendation, what specifically will she do to achieve this goal and if she could indicate what plans have been discussed and what has been recommended? Ms. McGifford: Well, we do like this idea and we know that any targets established would have to be in conjunction with the post-secondary institutions.

But I want to point out to the member that in order to implement this recommendation, we need to pass a data management strategy and we will in, I believe, the fall, have some legislation which is necessary for us to have before we can really implement this because of the complexities and legalities, et cetera, of collecting data. Mr. Hawranik: Another recommendation in the report indicates that Manitoba should improve the flow of information about post-secondary education so that students and parents can make well-informed decisions.

Would the minister agree that this also should include timely information; information that's provided well in advance, prior to a student making a decision as to whether or not to go to a particular institution? Ms. McGifford: Yes. In fact, I've always felt that we needed to do more work on this particular issue, and we do intend to do so. Mr. Hawranik: A further recommendation is that the Province should put in place a research and evaluation strategy to assess the impact of its policies. Is this something that's being planned by the minister as well? Ms. McGifford: Yes. We're looking into it.

Part of the data management strategy is also to have the ability to do research, which may be necessary here. Mr. Hawranik: One of the statements in Dr. Levin's report indicates that the government should consider redirecting resources fro m relatively ineffective measures, such as tax credits, to more effective strategies. I ask the minister, isn't this really a condemnation of the current tax credits that are out there? Ms. McGifford: I don't think it's a condemnation. It's one person's opinion. I mean, Dr.

Levin believes that income tax or tax measures aren't particularly successful in encouraging accessibility, and I think the member has to be aware that this report is about accessibility. Other persons have different points of view. But, if the member is referring to the income tax credit rebate, the one that students receive after graduating when they can claim that portion of their–or deduct portions of their tuition from their tax, that isn't an access strategy on the part of government. It's a retention strategy. Mr.

Hawranik: Considering the nature of that comment made in the report, is the minister looking at evaluating each of those tax credits with a view to determining whether they are effective and they do do as they were supposed to do? Ms. McGifford: We're certainly looking at them. The member may know that students also don't particularly like tax credits, which I find odd, but they don't. Mr. Hawranik: Probably because they don't pay any income tax until they start working.

Can the minister indicate whether there's any deferred maintenance costs that are in the budget, or any indication as to deferred maintenance within the post-secondary institutions across the province? If so, could she break down how much deferred maintenance there is at the University of Manitoba, say, for example, versus the University of Winnipeg and Brandon and the colleges across the province? Ms. McGifford: Last year we announced $40 million in deferred maintenance, and it's going to be–it's spread over two years. Mr. Hawranik: Has that number increased this year? Ms. McGifford: No.

The $40 million announced last year was spread over two years. Mr. Hawranik: In terms of the budget for post- secondary–or for advanced education–is there any travel by the Premier (Mr. Doer) or any delegation led by the Premier that was paid for by her department over the past year? Ms. McGifford: No, I don't believe so. Mr. Hawranik: With regard to ministerial travel, could the minister indicate how many out of province trips she had taken in the past year, and details of those trips, such as the purpose for which those trips were taken.

She may not have that information today, I can appreciate that, but maybe you do. Ms. McGifford: Where would the member like me to begin? What month?

1300 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 An Honourable Member: At the beginning. Ms. McGifford: At the beginning of what? Mr. Hawranik: April 1 of last year. * (15:40) Ms. McGifford: April 1, 2008. Well, in September, I went to Fredericton, New Brunswick, in order to attend a CMEC conference, and in February of 2009, I went to Saskatoon to attend a CMEC conference, and the Aboriginal summit was also linked to that. Mr. Hawranik: Can the minister indicate how much money comes from provincial funds with respect to research at the University of Manitoba? Ms.

McGifford: Research money is funded through STEM. Mr. Hawranik: And how much provincial money goes into STEM? Ms. McGifford: I refer the member to the Estimates of the Minister of Science, Technology, Energy and Mines (Mr. Rondeau). Mr. Hawranik: I noticed in last year's Estimates a question was given to the minister with respect to the University College of the North and whether or not it had yet been accredited. Can the minister indicate whether that university is accredited at this point? Ms. McGifford: No, they're working on their accreditation application. Mr.

Hawranik: I believe that the response given by the minister in 2007 at the time was that University College of the North was working on growing its numbers in terms of the numbers of students that would attend the University College of the North. Can the minister indicate whether or not there's a minimum number required before accreditation, and whether or not that number has been reached by the University College of the North? Ms. McGifford: Actually, universities aren't accredited. Of course, I think the member is referring to membership in the Association of Universities and Colleges.

I don't know all the ins and outs of being accredited by that body , but I'm getting some information. I'm informed that one aspect is size and then there are many other aspects. For example, I know library holdings is one. The member may know that recently the Canadian Me nnonite University was accredited. Of course, it became a university in 1997; it was accredited, I believe, in 2008, so it was an 11-year process. I don't know whether it will take the University College of the North quite that long, but it is a very complex process. It doesn't happen overnight. Mr.

Hawranik: Can the minister indicate how many political staff she has in her office? Ms. McGifford: Yes, I can. I have one political staffperson in my legislative office and one political staffperson in my community office. Mr. Hawranik: In 2007, the University of Manitoba purchased the Southwood Golf and Country Club for, I believe it was at that time, $10 million. Did the Province contribute toward the purchase of that property? Ms. McGifford: No, we did not. Mr.

Hawranik: I know that at the University of Manitoba they constructed a $6.7 million–at least it was projected to be that–15,000 square foot centre called Aboriginal House. Can the minister indicate whether or not the Province contributed to the cost of that construction? Ms. McGifford: Apparently, Madam Chair, not directly. Apparently, not directly. By the way, it is beautiful. It is beautiful. Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I just had one constituency question I wanted to ask the minister. I wrote to the minister a few weeks ago and I was asking about an advanced learning centre to be located in Morris.

There hasn't been one there for several years now, and the community is looking to establish an adult learni ng centre in the town of Morris. There are several people in that town that– well, maybe not at the present time, due to flood constraints–but have been travelling to other communities for their advanced education. So, I'm wondering if the minister would look favourably on establishing an adult learning centre in Morris. Ms.

McGifford: I'm informed that department people have met with the folks from Morris and that they will continue to meet, and if they're interested in continuing the process, certainly, they're open to receiving an application from folks in Morris, and they will, certainly, once an application is received, they will review the application based on the needs in that region and the program plan.

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1301 Mrs. Taillieu: Thank you very much for that. I'm just wondering if you can tell me when the meeting was, when it took place. Was it recently? Ms. McGifford: Apparently, the meeting took place a couple months ago and there have been subsequent telephone calls. Mr. Hawranik: I refer to a letter, January 6, 2009. Perhaps the minister can update me in terms of– because I didn't see any announcement, in particular, that would indicate that the contents of the letter have been acted on by the Province. That's a letter from Doug Adams to the Premier (Mr.

Doer) in January 6, 2009. He indicates that Brandon University had been working on a plan to develop a new fitness centre, and it's a badly needed facility at the Brandon University. The Premier apparently had said he would commit money through the Canada- Manitoba Infrastructure Program. I'm not aware that that particular project was funded, and I wonder if I could ask the minister whether or not it will be approved and, perhaps, a timeline as to when it might be. Ms.

McGifford: Well, we're certainly supportive of the wellness centre at Brandon, and I understand it is one of the infrastructure projects that has been forwarded to the federal government. We think it's Building Canada. Mr. Hawranik: I have many more questions, but not enough time. Perhaps I'll be able to ask the minister at any time about questions. But, in any event, perhaps we can proceed at this point, in any event, on a line-by-line basis. Madam Chairperson: Thank you. Resolution 44.2:

BE IT RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $532,205,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Support for Universities and Colleges, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 44.3:

BE IT RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $42,329,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Manitoba Student Aid, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Shall the resolution pass? Mr. Hawranik: Just a brief question with respect to the Manitoba Student Aid line. I notice that there's a 4.4 percent decrease. Can the minister indicate why Student Aid has decreased by that amount? Ms.

McGifford: That's the end of the Canada Millennium Scholarship Fund, which is a federal program, but I believe it's going to be offset by–the accountant to my left tells me it's a decrease in expense, and it's going to be offset by a decrease in revenue from the federal government. Madam Chairperson: Honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet. Mr. Hawranik: Sorry, I wasn't going to ask a question. Madam Chairperson: Oh, sorry. Okay. Shall the resolution pass? Some Honourable Members: Pass. Madam Chairperson: The resolution is accordingly passed. Resolution 44.4:

BE IT RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $20,879,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Adult Learning and Literacy, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Shall the resolution pass? * (15:50) Mr. Hawranik: Yes, one question about that particular number. I'm glad to see a 7.7 percent increase in that number, but will that be translated into more adult learning spaces? Ms. McGifford: My staff are talking about it, but my understanding is an adult centre doesn't have a number of spaces. It's not limited in that way.

It's not like a, obviously, like a child care centre where legislation dictates how many kids can be in a room. Some of that additional money is because of transfers from other departments. For example, I believe last year the Fr ancophone adult learning centre was funded through Education, Citizenship and Youth and then it transferred to our department. So, indeed, if you look at it that way, there will be more adults in the system. Mr. Hawranik: Is there projected to be more adult students this year versus last year. Is there going to be a substantial increase in terms of your projections? Ms.

McGifford: There's a hope of increase. I can't really answer that question.

1302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2009 Mr. Hawranik: So this 7.7 percent increase in the number, where's the money is going if there's not going to be an increase in the number of students. That's well above the rate of inflation. Ms. McGifford: The Member for Po rtage la Prairie pointed out rightly that teachers have increases, and part of it will be, obviously, going to pay wages for example, but the 7 percent includes the money that was transferred so there will be new spaces in the transferred program. Madam Chairperson: Shall the resolution pass? Some Honourable Members: Pass.

Madam Chairperson: The resolution is accordingly passed. Resolution 44.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $11,571,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Capital Grants, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2010. Mr. Hawranik: Just a question with regard to that. I notice there's a 11.5 pe rcent decrease. Can the minister explain why there would be such a drastic decrease? Ms. McGifford: Yes, last year, there was one-time funding for the nursing expansion at Red River. Madam Chairperson: Shall the resolution pass? Some Honourable Members: Pass.

Madam Chairperson: The resolution is accordingly passed. Resolution 44.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $231,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Shall the resolution pass? An Honourable Member: Pass. An Honourable Member: No. Mr. Hawranik: Again, the same question, 17.2 percent decrease. Can the minister explain why there's a 17 percent decrease in that number? Ms.

McGifford: It's related to assets owned by our department, and as they depreciate, so does the– An Honourable Member: It's a depreciable number. Ms. McGifford: Yes, exactly. Madam Chairperson: Shall the resolution pass? Some Honourable Members: Pass. Resolution 44.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $600,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, capital investments, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 44.1.(

a) Minister's Salary, contained in Resolution 44.1. At this time, we request the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is now open for questions. Seeing no questions, Resolution 44.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $1,859,000 for Advanced Education and Literacy, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2010. Resolution agreed to. Madam Chairperson: This completes the Estimates of the Department for Advanced Education and Literacy.

INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORTATION Madam Chairperson: We will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. Mr. Daryl Reid, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair The Acting Chairperson (Mr. Reid): We will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. As had been previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I think we were talking about No. 10 highway yesterday, to the minister, and I've just got a couple of quick questions to finish it. I know the part north of Brandon to Minnedosa is part of the national highway system. There was lobbying. He, I think, vociferated yesterday that probably the south side should be, as well, No. 10 to the border crossing at Boissevain, Dunseith on the U.S. side, through the International Peace Garden, and I would concur with that.

April 28, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1303 There has been work done on reducing Clemity Hill [phonetic] a number of years ago, south of Brandon–what's referred to as Clemity Hill [phonetic]. Six, seven miles south, there's been, of course, the bypass lights put on south of Brandon. So two things: First of all, can the minister just indicate to me–and I don't know if the Member for Brandon West (Mr. Borotsik) asked this question when he was in here the other day or not–what work will be done on the 1A bypass on the east side of Brandon this year? I know there's stockpiled gravel on No. 1 highway.

Can he just give me an update on whether that will be completed this year? Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): We're looking at the bridge design and we're also working with CP Rail to determine the underpass and how that's going to work, but this summer there's going to be some work done, some dirt work, I believe, as well. Madam Chairperson in the Chair We've also hired someone to look at the design. I'm just checking my book just to make sure. Between 457 and No. 1, we're looking at doing that work.

I believe that should be tendered soon, and, essentially, that's it on the eastern bypass for this summer. Mr. Maguire: Well, 457 to No. 1 would be a considerable amount of it. Will you be doing the underpass work on CP as well? Mr. Lemieux: No, I don't believe that we are, but we're looking at doing some earth work, some dirt work, between 457 and No. 1. It's a substantial start. I mean we've hired someone to do the design of the bridge, but we're also in consultation with CP Rail to see how that is going to work. I've been advised that we have to build a detour for the CP part as well. So it's a good start.

It's a very good start. It's been long overdue. We made a commitment to do it and we're proceeding as quickly as possible. * (16:00) Mr. Maguire: No. 10 highway south, I know there's work being done to No. 2, between the No. 2 junctions, the one going to Souris on the north side, the one going to Wawanesa on the south side. Will that work be finished this summer? Mr. Lemieux: We will have to check that particular–the specifics on Highway 10 south. There's been a substantial amount of money, around $60 million budgeted for Highway 10 in total–excuse me, that was a couple of years ago–on our five-year plan.

We're making some progress with regard to Highway 10. I mentioned to the MLA for Minnedosa that we did shave some hills down, trying to improve the sight lines on Highway 10. More work still needs to be done. We were held up last year–it was wet last year. Some people forget. They see it being wet this spring. But it was really wet last fall and many of our contractors had some difficulty last fall finishing up the work that they had to do. So I'm just going to check with my staff just to determine, to see what work, if any, is going to be done or completed.

Just to conclude my answer is that we are going to finish that stretch that we were working on last year, south of Brandon. Of course on Highway 10– many people forget that Highway 10 and 18th Street are essentially one and the same. So by next fall some time we will be finished, or this coming fall, we'll be finished the one

section of the 18th Street Bridge and then we'll be proceeding to work on the next stretch to be concluded the following year. We are doing some highway work, intersection work actually, near the ethanol plant near Minnedosa. That's also work that's going to be done this coming summer. Mr. Maguire: It's not part of my area of Highway 10 that comes through Whitewater; it's certainly the Member for Minnedosa's (Mrs. Rowat) area. The Riverside Bridge–what's called Riverside Bridge at Highway 10, can the minister indicate to me what the final costs were of upgrading it last year? Mr. Lemieux: Just some clarification from the MLA? Mr. Maguire: I'm wonderin

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-32b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 32b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	9b1c2e54729871bbc36c1215038b03004e60e9e9

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