Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 3 May 2001 (44th General Assembly, 3rd Session, Vol. XLIV No. 20)
2001-05-03
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 3, 2001 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLIV No. 20
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, students of Carbonear Collegiate saw history
come alive last week with one of Norway's most decorated war heroes of World
War II, Captain Gunner Sonsteby, addressed Level I and Level II students at the
school about his war experiences.
Mr. Sonsteby, a member of the Royal Norwegian Army, is the only Norwegian
awarded the Norwegian War Cross with two bars, the highest award bestowed by
Norway during the War. He has also written a book about his experiences called
Report from #24 which he presented to each of the six Royal Canadian Legion
branches in the Trinity-Conception region.
The eighty-three year old veteran lectured the high school students about his
experiences and discussed anecdotal experiences about his many adventures during
the Second World War. It was an excellent chance for local students to hear
firsthand historical experience about the effort of veterans.
I want to especially thank Mr. Jack Murphy, President of Royal Canadian
Legion, Carbonear Branch 23 for his hospitality during the visit.
Our veterans played an important role in our freedom, Mr. Speaker, and this
visit to my area, was an excellent chance for our students to never forget the
contribution these veterans made for their freedom.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to congratulate
Barry Pearce of Trinity who was named a recipient of the 2000 Bancroft Award at
the recent Newfoundland and Labrador Teachers' Association (NLTA) annual
convention.
The Bancroft Award was establish in 1980 to mark the 90 th
anniversary of the NLTA. The award recognizes outstanding service at the branch
level of the NLTA for the betterment of education and professionalism for
teachers.
A teacher for over twenty-nine years, Mr. Pearce retired in 1999. He held
numerous offices at the branch level and was active in many issues affecting
education and teaching in his branch.
I would like to especially congratulate Barry Pearce for receiving this award
and on behalf of the residents of Trinity North publicly thank him for his years
of service to his profession. I would also like to extend congratulations to the
other Bancroft winners this year, Randy Smith of Port aux Basques, and Charles
Dillon of St. Mary's.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am on a roll, Mr. Speaker. Two days in a row.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: I got my maiden speech in yesterday, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today on the Model Forest and School District Hosting
Envirothon. Starting today, May 3 and going until Saturday, May 5,
in Corner Brook the Western Newfoundland Model Forest and the Deer
Lake-Corner Brook-St. Barbe School District will be hosting a regional
Envirothon Competition. This is the first time this competition will be held in
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Envirothon is North America's largest and fastest-growing high school
environmental competition. Teams of high school students from across Canada and
the United States test their knowledge of wildlife, forestry, aquatics, soils
and current environmental issues.
In 2000, a team from Regina High School in Corner Brook, under the guidance
of teacher- advisor Cec Lake, participated in the Nova Scotia Envirothon in Port
Hawkesbury, Nova Scotia. The team then went on to the Canon International
Envirothon, held at Acadia University in Nova Scotia.
This year, nine teams will compete at a local competition to earn the right
to represent the Province at both the Nova Scotia event on May 11 and May 12 and
the International Cannon Envirothon being held in Jackson, Mississippi on July
24-29.
I would like to commend those involved in organizing this event and I also
extend best wishes to all participants.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture, and Recreation.
MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to update my hon. colleagues
with the most recent filming activity taking place in our Province. Shooting has
begun in the Province for the film, The Shipping News , which is based on
the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel by E. Annie Proulx.
The Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development Corporation has been involved
in this production since its inception in 1997. Prior to the establishment of
the corporation, the former Departments of Industry, Trade and Technology, and
Development and Rural Renewal were involved in the logistical stages of this
project.
The production company, Miramax Productions, has been in the Trinity area
since March building sets. Filming recently commenced and will continue through
May and June months. Approximately half of the production will be filmed here,
primarily in the Trinity-Bonavista area, which was the same region used for the
shooting of the mini-series, Random Passage , last year. Random Passage
was just in Ireland and shown in Ireland with the directors there and had a very
positive response. One of the main settings for The Shipping News will be
the Quoyle House located at Savage Point in Trinity Bight.
Mr. Speaker, this Hollywood production will bring tremendous economic
benefits to the Province. Over 200 accommodations have been secured in the
Trinity and Bonavista areas and the production company has hired many local
people to work on this exciting project. As well, the Wave Tank at Memorial
University has been booked for a two-week period for filming. This production
activity is expected to generate approximately $20 million in the provincial
economy.
The film is being directed by Lars Hallstrom, who originally won an award for
Cider House Rules , and the film stars include Oscar winner Kevin Spacey.
Mr. Speaker, it is positive to see this Hollywood production being created in
our own back yard, and we are very eager to see Newfoundland and Labrador on the
big screen. This is a golden opportunity to exhibit our Province to the entire
world, as this film will help create more awareness of the spectacular scenery
and beauty of our Province. Productions like this one and others, including the
filming of Random Passage and The Red Door , help to build both a
viable filming industry as well as support for our growing tourism industry.
This will be a banner year for Newfoundland and Labrador's film industry,
and we look forward to helping continue the growth and momentum in this valuable
industry.
To demonstrate the level of activity and development within the local film
industry, we would like to point out that the Film Development Corporation has
committed for this fiscal year approximately $1.5 million for the development
and production of local films, and the level of requests for funding speaks
volumes to the potential that exists in this industry.
I would like to congratulate the Newfoundland and Labrador Film Development
Corporation, a corporation of the provincial government, for their hard work in
securing film production projects and promoting this Province as a great place
to do business.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. Barbe.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We welcome the good news about a major film project in this Province.
Certainly, they are contributing tremendously to the local economy, particularly
in the rural communities on the Bonavista Peninsula.
From my own perspective, I am disappointed that The Shipping News ,
which was set in a Northern Peninsula community, was filmed largely outside our
Province and none of the benefits flowed directly to our area.
While we applaud the government for starting to tap into the enormous
potential of the movie-making industry, we note that this Province was late off
the mark and still taking time playing catch-up.
With the low Canadian dollar, places with Vancouver and Halifax have been
booming, reaping hundreds of millions of dollars from the U.S. film industry and
kick-starting local companies.
We do have questions about whether this Province is able to handle requests
for major multiple film proposals in a timely and efficient manner. Is the
learning curve too steep? Are we losing benefits to other regions because of
bureaucratic red tape and inefficient process? We have to do all we can to
ensure we get what we can from this growing industry, because our communities
cannot afford to lose out.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We certainly welcome the news about The Shipping News being shot to a
large extent in this Province. Certainly, the work of the Film Development
Corporation has been positive in the last number of years.
We were told that our late arrival as a film development corporation province
was good because we had solved all of the problems and we knew how to do it
right. Well, Mr. Speaker, we just lost three films because the minister has said
himself that we really haven't had time to study the sector.
We have to be involved in this sector in a very big way. We have to see a
sound stage built here. There is a proposal afoot for a sound stage in the
stadium site here in St. John's. Is this government going to get behind that
and try and make that happen so that we, too, can take advantage of the very
large amount of filming being undertaken in this country to the benefit of our
economy and our workers?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MS FOOTE: A point of privilege, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: On a point of privilege, the hon. the Minister of Education.
MS FOOTE: I rise, Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege today.
I want to point to a press release that was put out by my critic, the Member
for Habour Main-Whitbourne. I am disturbed about the content of the release,
particularly the headline which says the Education Minister reverses position on
primary school language arts.
The member opposite knows this is not the case. It is interfering with my
ability, as Minister of Education, to do a responsible job for the students of
this Province. The member opposite is playing games with the education of the
children of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, it is hard to imagine that, as a former teacher -
and thank heavens it is former teacher - he is standing in this House asking
questions and then fabricating a response and putting it out for the parents and
the children in this Province.
Mr. Speaker, I have a problem with this. I rise on a point of privilege,
because I really believe it is interfering in my ability to do a job.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to continue with her -
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, not only the education critic, but the leader of
the Opposition party, Mr. Danny Williams, has fallen into the same trap. I
really regret that a man of that caliber would stoop to such a low political
tactic.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the point of privilege, I might add that the minister must feel very
defensive about an issue, if she rises on a point of privilege.
Mr. Speaker, 31.(3) of Beauchesne 6 th Edition indicates -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair has recognized the hon. the Opposition House Leader. I ask him now
to continue.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Beauchesne 6 th Edition, 31.(3) indicates that,
"Statements made outside the House by a Member may not be used as the basis
for a question of privilege."
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, this is a very important point of privilege. It
represents members recognizing the importance of not misrepresenting facts, and
this is what this particular -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask hon. members now to let the Government House Leader make his point.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, one of the fundamental principles of any
Parliament is that members be accountable for what they say, that members report
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, one of the fundamental principles of Parliament is
that people be held accountable for what they say, and when we make references -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask hon. members now to let the Government House Leader make his point.
MR. LUSH: - and when we make references to what a member says, when we
quote what a members says, Mr. Speaker, there is an onus on us to report it
accurately; and if we do not report it accurately, if we make any
misrepresentation, then the onus is on the member to withdraw and to acknowledge
that they have made a misrepresentation.
Here, Mr. Speaker, the headlines say that the Education Minister reverses
position on primary school language arts. Mr. Speaker, there is not one iota,
not one scintilla - not one scintilla! - of truth in that statement.
MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).
MR. LUSH: I say, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. member should withdraw his
statement and apologize to the member. If hon. members are going to be making
misrepresentations -
MR. J. BYRNE: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Member for Cape St. Francis not to interrupt.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: If that is the kind of activity that is going to go on in this
House, Mr. Speaker, I will say that we would be reduced in stature considerably.
The onus is on all hon. members to ensure that the principles of this House,
that the rules under which we operate, are upheld and that members will speak
the truth and report the truth, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take the point raised by the hon. member
under advisement.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My colleagues and I on this side of the House, and I am sure members on the
opposite side of the House, have been getting quite a few telephone calls and
mail from all over the Province in recent days from people who are very
concerned about the takeover and change in the board of directors of FPI.
People, Mr. Speaker, are concerned about two things: concentration of ownership
within the fishing industry, and the fact that FPI is now in the hands and is
directed by its competitors.
Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture today
is: How is he responding to these concerns, and do you have a plan to address
the concerns of the people in the fishing industry?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As we have continued to say in the past month, we are concerned about FPI,
unlike the members opposite who do a different flip or a flip-flop every single
day of the week on where you stand on that issue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: One day in the House of Assembly you are saying we should do
something, we should nationalize this, and the next day, Mr. Speaker, your
leader is on the open airways of this Province saying we shouldn't interfere,
and then the next day he is saying we should interfere. So I would like for you
to tell us where you stand and what you propose to do, but decide that, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, what the Opposition should realize is that the only thing that
has changed in FPI in the last few days is the board of directors. The owners,
the shareholders of the company are the same today as they were last month.
Nothing has changed except that the shareholders of that company exercised their
democratic right to elect a new board of directors for that company.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about a number of issues that relate to
FPI. We met yesterday, just hours after that board was elected and sworn in,
with the majority of that board. We told them about our concerns and we also
told them that we will make sure that they live up to the commitments that they
made to the residents of this Province.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits &
White Bay North.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, yes, the only thing that has changed is the
board of directors. The minister is absolutely correct, but a majority of FPI
shares are now owned by FPIs competitors and a new board of directors was put
together by FPIs owner/competitors. Can there be any doubt in the minister's
mind that domestic and foreign competitors of FPI are now in charge of the
company? Does he have any concern that they may be able to neutralize FPI as a
competitor of those companies?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The hon. member opposite said that now the board of directors is in the
control of competitors with FPI. I will have the member opposite know that at
least eight of those members are prominent Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Another point I would like to make is that Mr. Barratt, who is the President
of Sanford Seafoods in New Zealand, is also on that board of directors. Mr.
Speaker, Mr. Young, himself, asked Mr. Barrett to be a member of the slate that
he was proposing to put forward this year.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for The Straits &
White Bay North.
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, I do not question the integrity, and I certainly
do not propose to enhance the integrity, of the eight Newfoundlanders who are on
the board of FPI now.
If Ford and GM controlled the board of Chrysler, I would suggest that
everybody in this House would question the ability of Chrysler to compete
against Ford and GM in the market.
I say to the minister - if I could have just a minute here - Fishery
Products, from his statement yesterday -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary, I ask him to get to his question.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I question the minister on this: Fishery Products International was created
by the Legislature of the Province and that FPI legislation can be modified at
any time to ensure that the provisions of the act reflect current circumstances
and address temporary concerns.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: Mr. Speaker, the question is: Will you, before this House
closes in a couple of short weeks, table legislation to address the serious
matters related to FPI, its competitors, and ensure that the people in the
fishing industry of Newfoundland and Labrador and the integrity of FPI to be
able to compete in the market as it is today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There are a couple of things I would like to address about the integrity that
he talks about. He is saying that the people over here have no integrity and
that we do not care about the people of this Province. You also talked about
integrity, and yesterday afternoon your leader got up and said that I am more in
the dark than I was and that I know nothing about the fishery.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
All that is happening here today is that the group opposite are trying to
cast aspersions on the new board of FPI. That is certainly a very dangerous
thing to be getting into. That company means a lot to Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, especially those rural Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who are
employed in that company!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: By casting aspersions that this company is going to be propped
up and flung to the winds in this Province is not necessarily the best thing
that you could be doing today.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are to the acting President of Treasury Board. The
agreement that the Premier and the President of Treasury Board reached last
month with CUPE and NAPE has not yet been signed. One union, CUPE, has even been
reported today in The Telegram as saying that the agreement is off. I
want to ask the minister: Why is the agreement that was negotiated falling
apart?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The words that the Opposition House Leader chooses are his words, not the
words of any union leader that negotiated with this government. Nobody has said
that the agreement is off. As a matter of fact, I can report to the hon. member
that the President of Treasury Board, who happens to be out today, as late as
this morning has had a conversation with Mr. Lucas, representing CUPE. She, I
think, attempted to have a conversation with Mr. Hanlon, although he expresses
no concern and suggests, to the contrary, that the arrangements that were
tentatively entered into, subject to ratification by his members, is a very,
very good deal and he is happy with it. So, to suggest that the tentative
agreement is off the rail is totally, completely and utterly inaccurate.
Also, to the extent there are issues that need to be discussed further with
our officials of Treasury Board and the officials of the unions, these
discussions are ongoing, will continue into early next week and, I think, the
hon. member should have a restful weekend if he is fearful that the tentative
deal is falling apart. Quite to the contrary, there were tentative deals. There
were issues to be resolved that were agreed to be resolved at the local level
because they are of a local nature and the process is carrying on, unfolding,
and the outcome, I am quite confident, will be positive and a ratification vote
will be put to the members eventually.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, he has indicated an inaccurate statement here: Nobody
has ever said the deal is off. Mr. Lucas, of CUPE, said the deal is off. I will
ask the minister to read today's Telegram where he is quoted as saying the
deal is off.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: I ask the minister: Isn't it a fact that the health care
boards and some school boards have refused to sign off on agreement that the
Premier and the President of Treasury Board made unless government puts up the
money to those boards to pay for it?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I have read The Telegram this morning. It is not the most
important document that comes across my desk 9:00 every morning, I say to the
hon. member, but we do read it as a matter of course and I am familiar with the
comments that are there.
The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. MATTHEWS: The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, the union
membership has not rejected any tentative deal because the tentative deal, as I
understand it, has not yet even been put to the members. That process will
happen imminently as always happens in the course of tentative agreements that
are subject to ratification by membership. As I understand it, the ratification
process will start sometime soon by both NAPE and CUPE, and we will await the
outcome of that process. Obviously, we will not comment on it or speak to it
because it would not be right.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the minister if you actually knew what they were doing on that day
because the settlement that was accepted involves cost fare over and above the
salary and pension increases that were announced? Isn't it a fact that the
minister committed this government to contract benefits without knowing what the
cost would be and you are now trying to download those costs on the hospital
boards and the school boards in this Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. MATTHEWS: No, Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. MATTHEWS: The question he asked was: Did the Premier and the
President of the Treasury Board know what they were doing and agreeing to?
Absolutely, they knew what they were doing and agreeing to. More than that, if
he does not have a level of comfort in that, it is quite apparent, I think, to
everyone in the Province that the president of the two unions knew what they
were talking about and had agreed to, and the level of confidence expressed by
Tom Hanlon and NAPE in the tentative agreement that has been reached, I think,
is affirmed in the paper this morning. There are some local issues that have to
be concluded in terms of the details that need to be worked out. That was
acknowledged by the union when the tentative agreement was done, as well as by
government. These matters will be worked out between Treasury Board officials
and between members of the various unions, and the tentative agreement will then
move forward to hopefully ratification subject to the union members being made
aware of what the contents are and getting a chance to vote on it.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to ask the minister: Is he aware that a master agreement is now being
negotiated amongst school boards - there were five separate agreements - and
that now there are certain costs involved over and above the negotiated
settlement, that this government is trying to put back on the boards in this
Province? Is the minister aware of that master agreement?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, contrary to public perception and maybe the
perception of the hon. member, I will try to be non-provocative so that he does
not have to wear himself out asking supplementaries.
We are not trying to download unknown costs to school boards or hospital
boards beyond what was generally agreed to in the tentative agreement and
subject to working out certain local conditions that were agreed to be worked
out at the local level between both government, NAPE and CUPE. Beyond that, no,
we have not and we are not inflicting or contemplating passing along costs that
would be extraordinary to the normal process of working out these issues.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
About three weeks ago, I raised some concerns here in this House as it relates
to seasonal workers, and I think particularly the fish plant workers, fishermen,
loggers and other people who cannot return to work for reasons beyond their
control. I raised the concern that those people now have their employment
insurance benefits cut off because of the duration they are entitled to under
the new rules and regulations. The minister assured me that it was not only the
people on this side who were concerned, but that he was concerned as well and
that he was working with his federal cousins in Ottawa to bring some resolution
to this. I wonder if the minister would give not only myself but those seasonal
workers who are laid off, an update of his success in dealing with his
counterparts in Ottawa to resolve this very serious situation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I assured the member at that time that I was
certainly very concerned about this. I do not know if a person's level of
concern can be measured; but, as we can measure IQs - I am not so sure it is as
definitive as that - I did tell the hon. member that I did not think his side
had a monopoly on concern, that we were concerned on this side and will continue
to show concern.
Now, I may have to force the hon. member to change his press release, because
I know that he probably has his press release all prepared, but I am going to
defer this question to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment who has
been working directly on this in the past couple of weeks.
I am going to defer to the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.
I ask the hon. minister now to quickly give an answer.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Indeed, as my hon. colleague has pointed out, one of the
responsibilities that I do have in my Ministry of Human Resources and Employment
is to deal directly with the EI program. I understand the concerns raised by the
hon. member opposite. He and I have discussed these things on a number of
occasions. All hon. members of this House, especially those who represent rural
districts, have a real understanding and feeling for how important the EI
program is to the people of this Province. In fact, I have lived and worked with
this for a number of years. I have many people in my own district who are
dependent on this. In fact, rural Newfoundland today could not survive if we did
not have the EI program present.
One of the things I have always lived in fear of, as a member representing a
rural riding, is that whenever we look at EI reform, all it would take would be
one simple change, and it has sometimes been talked about, that you would have
to draw down benefits in the Province in which you qualify. One simple change
like that and we would wipe out rural Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, indeed we are very vigilant. As a government, we are very much
aware of how important this is.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer quickly.
MR. SMITH: We are appreciative of the changes that are presently being
made. I would ask the hon. member to just restrain himself. I will speak
directly to the question. We are pleased with the changes that have been made in
response to representations that have been made from both sides of the House,
and the changes that are currently before Parliament and proceeding through -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to finish his answer quickly.
MR. SMITH: - will make a significant difference, but we will be pressing
for additional changes as well.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister that the need is now.
The need is not in three or four weeks time. It was five or six weeks ago, and
it continues today.
Minister, we are not talking about a cash-strapped program here; we are
talking about a program that has in excess of $30 billion in it. We are talking
about a program that the federal Prime Minister, the Prime Minister of this
country, apologized to the people in the country for the draconian changes that
he brought about as it relates to EI.
I ask the minister: What advice or what comfort can he give to the thousands
of people who are out there today unemployed, unable to support their families?
Where does he suggest they turn in order to provide for their families for the
necessities of life?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, with regard to the specific issue that the hon.
member raises, indeed we have been actively pursuing that. In collaboration with
my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, we have been addressing
that very specific issue with the appropriate ministers at the federal level.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bonavista
South.
MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, it is certainly not the first choice of many of those
individuals, but for some of them it might be the only choice, and that is to go
to your department to look for provincial funding. Unfortunately, you have a
policy that states that all income that has been awarded to somebody within the
last sixty days is taken into account. Some people have their income tax return
back, which you take into consideration.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.
MR. FITZGERALD: Other considerations that have been taken into is
unemployment insurance this last five or six weeks. You can change it to make a
difference. Will you today commit to do away with that policy, to help those
very people we are talking about?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources and Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I cannot respond with just a blanket statement that would deal with all of
the issues that the hon. member raises here. All I can commit to do, as a
minister of the department with responsibility for carrying out a certain
mandate, what we have to do is look at the individual cases. If an individual
presents himself or herself, looking for assistance from my department, then we
will certainly look at that.
I do have to say to the hon. member that we do in fact have to look at all of
the issues that he has raised. We have to determine eligibility. Everybody who
goes, who presents himself to my department, is subject to the same type of
scrutiny and examination; but, we will certainly be prepared to look at each and
every individual case. Where we can assist, we will be glad to do so.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. The negotiating
text of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas, as discussed at the Quebec
summit, have not been made fully public yet. Yet, Trade Minister Pierre
Pettigrew says that the provinces have had access to the negotiating text for
some weeks.
Will the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs advise the House what the
implications of the Free Trade Agreement for the Americas are for the export of
bulk water from this Province, particularly at Gisborne Lake? Will he make
available the text of the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas to the public for
scrutiny so that we can assure ourselves what the consequences of the Free Trade
Agreement of the Americas might be for this Province, including the export of
bulk water from Gisborne Lake?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows very well that there has
been no indication that the export of bulk water will have any effect at all
with respect to free trade. He knows that.
He knows that there has been nothing definitive decided on this. He knows
that quite well. He just wants to play politics with this situation at this
moment.
Mr. Speaker, if there is anything the hon. gentleman wants tabled, that can
be tabled, we will table it for him. Anything that we have in our possession
that will enlighten members opposite, we will do that. We are an open
government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LUSH: We are as open as an open book, and anything we can table we
are going to table.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
He is starting to sound like the Liberals and Tories in the House of Commons,
who said that NAFTA wasn't going to affect water either.
Why is the SunBelts Corporation of California suing, under the NAFTA
agreement for bulk water? Every indication is that
Chapter 11 (inaudible)
provisions are in the FTA. Will the minister table those provisions of the Free
Trade Agreement of the Americas so that we can judge for ourselves? Because the
words of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs are like the words of his
federal counterparts; they cannot be accepted at face value.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, we are government that is not afraid to look into
knowledge. We are not afraid to open up debate, to open up discussion, to the
people of this Province. That is why we are taking a look at Gisborne Lake. That
is why we are taking a look at it, because we know that we have intelligent
people. Given the facts, our people are able to make an intelligent decision,
and that is what is going to happen.
Mr. Speaker, if we had to table all of the documents the hon. members want
tabled, we would have to raise the ceiling of this House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. LUSH: They want everything tabled!
I can tell you, if we have in our possession information that we think will
enlighten members opposite, will make them a little more enlightened, we will
table it in the House, supposing we have to remove the ceiling!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today are for the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women,
and they concern Ms Nellie Nippard, a person who was stabbed thirty-three times.
Ms Nippard basically went very public with a very private matter in her fight to
ensure that victims of crime, such as she herself suffered, would have standing
at the National Parole Board. But it seems that standing is available only to
people who can afford it, and people like Ms Nippard are again being victimized
because they cannot afford to appear in front of the parole board. What is the
government prepared to do about that?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to get this question because I think, as the member may know,
Nellie Nippard is from Central Newfoundland, and the women's centre out there
have been very, very supportive - and all the people of Central Newfoundland -
in ensuring and helping Nellie, who I think made history when she was able to
obtain standing for herself and for other victims at parole hearings.
Of course, while she has standing, she is not allowed to speak. We have
worked very hard, many of the women here in Newfoundland and Labrador and across
the country, to ensure that in the future, and we hope that in the very near
future, she will be able to not only attend, but to speak.
The issue the member mentions today though, of being able to afford to
attend, because it is important, that while she may have access, it is also an
affordability issue. We will ensure that Nellie Nippard is able to attend these
hearings, but also we are ensuring that at the fall meeting of the Ministers'
Responsible for the Status of Women across this country, that it is on the
agenda to move forward with an item to solve this issue of affordability for
victims, like Nellie Nippard, who have made such a huge contribution already,
but should never be denied, while you have the right to attend, the access to
attend.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to ask the minister now - in response to my question she said
that they would ensure that Nellie Nippard would be able to attend. Is the
minister telling me today that the government is going to provide financing for
Nellie Nippard to attend the parole hearing which is coming up very shortly?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The ability to go, as my colleague just said, will be provided, but until I
speak to Nellie myself, and until we look into this issue with her, it is very
difficult for me to provide answers. I have already had several calls today to
my office of offers to help Nellie. I have also, through the Women's Policy
Office and through several other avenues within government, already made
inquiries into the fact that we need to assist her to make this happen. Nellie
Nippard will be able to attend that parole hearing, either with government
assistance or with other types of assistance that will be determined in the next
few hours.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to say to the minister that Nellie Nippard went public years ago
when she found herself in the unfortunate circumstance of being a victim of a
very terrible crime. Now she has had to go public again to demonstrate how poor
she is and she has to go to, either to the women's centers out there - is
government going to provide funding, or do the people have to have bake sales in
the mall so that Nellie Nippard can get to the parole hearing?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
No, people do not have to have bake sales and take up collections in this
instance. They do not. I have already answered the member's question in that
way. The government has not been approached on this until today. We will have an
answer very shortly. As I have said to you, I am the MHA for Gander district,
the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women, and I tell you that Nellie
Nippard will have the financial resources that will not come from her own pocket
or from bake sales to attend that hearing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.
Order, please!
Before I recognize the hon. minister, I want to acknowledge today the
presence of a former Member of the House of Assembly. He was the Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse Clair, Mr. Danny Dumaresque.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the report of the Public
Tender Act exemptions for March.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I hereby table the Annual Report for the Provincial Advisory Council on the
Status of Women Newfoundland and Labrador for the fiscal year 1999-2000.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave
to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Workplace Health, Safety And
Compensation Act, And The Occupational Health And Safety Act. Bill 16.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I have a petition against the bulk export of water from
Newfoundland and Labrador.
The prayer of the petition, Mr. Speaker, reads:
We, the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, wish to petition the House of
Assembly, with copies to the House of Commons, to oppose the bulk export of
water from this Province.
Every major resource, such as Churchill Falls, that has been developed in
Newfoundland and Labrador has resulted in the majority of benefits going outside
the Province.
It is time that we demand our full and fair share!
With water being one of the few resources remaining where we have the
opportunity to deliver maximum benefits through jobs, spinoffs from secondary
processing, as well as royalties, we demand that any water sold must be bottled
and processed in this Province.
Mr. Speaker, this issue has been well debated throughout the Province. The
people of Newfoundland and Labrador have spoken. The people of Newfoundland and
Labrador have made very clear what they want done with this resource; and what
they want done with this resource is to have it processed in this Province, to
have it bottled in this Province, to give secondary jobs, to give spinoff and
royalties to his Province.
It is no different, Mr. Speaker, than what they want done with the ore from
Voisey's Bay. It is no different than what government has been promising to do
with our resources, to get maximum benefits, our full and fair share. That is
what the people of this Province are asking for this resource, Mr. Speaker. That
is what the people of this Province are asking to have done with our water, to
not only protect it but to ensure that the people of this Province get maximum
benefits in terms of jobs, secondary processing, packaging and transportation.
It is time that we do that with our resources.
We have heard other members of the House, from the other side of the House,
say that water is very, very inexpensive to process, it is perhaps even more
valuable than oil. When you look at the cost of putting Hibernia out there, the
gravity-based structure, the seismic work, exploration and everything else, to
make Hibernia a reality - and it would be a fraction of the cost, Mr. Speaker,
to get a processing facility here to bottle water. We already have bottling
plants here in this Province and they are growing by leaps and bounds. The
bottling water industry throughout the world is growing by leaps and bounds. The
demand for water throughout the world is growing.
There will come a time when water will be so valuable that it will be very
easy to sell, whatever quantities we want to sell, bottled or in any other form.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like, today, to present a petition on behalf of the people of Jackson's
Arm, Sop's Arm-Pollards Point and area, on a health care issue in that area.
Mr. Speaker, there are about 1,200 people and two fish plants in this area
employing over 200 people in a twenty-four hour period in the middle of the
fishing season certainly. The health care centre in the area is certainly
desperately lacking in staff, and there is no doctor permanently stationed in
this area.
For three days a week the health care that is provided in this area is in the
form of a doctor who comes in from Deer Lake, from 10:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m.,
as I said, for three days a week. The remainder of the week, the other two days
in the working week, the health care is provided by a nurse practitioner. So, on
the weekends they are basically without any health care services, and are
desperately lacking throughout the week.
As I said, Mr. Speaker, there are 1,200 people in this area and it is a long
distance from this area to the nearest health care centre. Also, in the summer
with the fish plant working, there are logging operations in this area, there
are tourism operations in the area, and without a doctor within the area, I
would suggest, that people are in a very desperate situation here and find
themselves, from time to time, having to travel to Corner Brook for health care
services. As anybody who is familiar with the area knows, it is quite a distance
for anybody to travel for health care under the best of circumstances. When you
get into the winter months you will certainly find, from time to time, that it
is practically impossible to get through. Putting your life in danger to try to
improve your health is certainly not a very good predicament to find yourself
in.
Mr. Speaker, this is sort of, I hesitate to say typical, but it is certainly
not an uncommon situation around Newfoundland and Labrador where we find
shortages of doctors and health care providers. In my own district, from time to
time, we find ourselves desperately lacking health care services in areas like
Flowers Cove and Roddickton and, from time to time, in St. Anthony. This is an
issue, I think, that the government really needs to seriously look at and, as
the petitioners say: we urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, and
particularly the Minister of Health, to undertake an aggressive search for a
doctor who is willing to permanently locate in this area of the Province.
Mr. Speaker, on the behalf of the people in Jackson's Arm, Sops Arm and the
Pollards Point area, I present this petition to the hon. House of Assembly of
Newfoundland and Labrador in legislation convened and, as in duty bound, our
petitioners will ever pray.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Motion 3, Mr. Speaker. I ask leave to move first reading of a
bill entitled,
An Act to Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991. (Bill 14)
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General to introduce a
bill, "An Act To Amend The Provincial Court Act, 1991," carried. (Bill
14)
On motion, Bill 14 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, Order 3, Concurrence Motion, Government Services
Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: Order 3, the Government Services Committee, Concurrence
Motion.
The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to stand today and make a few comments on the concurrence debate
as it relates to the Government Services Committee under the headings of
Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation;
Department of Environment; Works Services and Transportation; Finance; Public
Service Commission; and Department of Government Services and Lands.
Certainly it is interesting when I look at these headings today - and I think
it is time that the government started having a serious look at the financial
situation in the Province, and where we are headed here, especially out in rural
Newfoundland where there are a lot of concerns. I think it is time to get back
to the basics in this (inaudible).
As I was preparing some remarks today I just happened to be forwarded a copy
of this weeks The Newfoundland Herald and I was really surprised at the
readings, Mr. Speaker. On page 38 and 39 there is a major interview with the
former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture. It is certainly interesting; some
very interesting comments from the former minister. When I look back, a lot of
it has to do with the leadership race that was held back in February, but
certainly it was very interesting. When I look around and see some of the
members on the other side, I can see why there was a bit of a hesitation today
when the former Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair happened to be in the
Speaker's gallery. It is very interesting that everything would come together
on a day that I decide to talk about back to the basics.
A lot of people, I would say, are very concerned that the former Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is back in town again, because when he was roaming
around town in January, I am telling you, there were a lot of nervous people on
the other side of the House. Certainly, as it closed in on the campaign in
February, and they headed off to the Glacier, there were a lot of concerns in
this House. The Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace was one of the people who was
very concerned. He was very concerned, Mr. Speaker. I see him down now trying
to, I guess, receive some forgiveness for his sins in February. Knowing the
former Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair very well, and after spending a
few years here in the House with him, I know that he does not forgive very
quickly. I would not say he has forgiven the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace,
and if he did forgive him for his doings in February, I would say that he
received a heavy penance.
I would like to make a few comments, if I could, on what I believe is a time
that has certainly changed the face of Newfoundland politics. As we sit here in
the House, certainly we have some concerns. Everybody thinks that all is well.
If I could quote from the Premier, on the stage, after receiving the leadership
of the party by fourteen votes, he said: the key for all of us is this: as of
now there are no more campaign teams inside the Liberal Party. There is just one
great, strong united Liberal Party that can move forward with pride from today.
I have to say, when we look here today and discuss the finances of the
Province, and we are discussing things as important as government services, and
discussing the Public Service Commission, we think there is one united family.
Then I go to this weekend's edition of The Newfoundland Herald and I
find I am really confused. I see the Government House Leader looking over. I
would say at times we are all confused. I really find it strange sometimes, and
I am confused on some of the things that happened, and I will get to those in a
few minutes.
In the meantime, I would just like to say that there are a lot of people
hurting out in Newfoundland and Labrador, there is a lot of concern out in
Newfoundland and Labrador, and certainly there are a lot of people confused of
what the plan is of this government; what the plan is to address the concerns in
rural Newfoundland, what the plan is to address the concerns of people who have
been forced on social assistance in this Province, to know what the plan is to
address the concerns that have been raised with the FPI situation, and all of
these issues that are out there. At times we are all somewhat concerned about
what can happen.
We look and we see that many people from rural Newfoundland came into St.
John's, into Mount Pearl, in February, with a plan. A lot of people who were
delegates to the Liberal convention came in here with a plan, and that plan was
to elect the then Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture as the new leader and
the new Premier of the Province, because they felt, the people of the Province
felt, that he would have a better idea of how to address the concerns in rural
Newfoundland and how to, I guess, get to the bottom of the issues.
Then, when I pick up literature here, whether it is the local Charter,
which covers the Placentia-Cape Shore area in my district, whether it is The
Telegram , or whether it is The Newfoundland Herald, a quote from the
former minister, Mr. Efford, in his leadership bid, and I found this very, very
interesting, said: I couldn't understand why my supporters weren't cheering.
Then, I knew it was over.
We look up then at the Member for Bay of Islands. I find it really, really
strange that the Member for Bay of Islands went out of his way, from what I can
understand, and raised a fair bit of money, a fair bit of cash, if my
information is correct, and I have no reason to believe that my information is
not correct. We are talking about finance here. I would like to talk about the
finances - that the Member for Bay of Islands went out and raised a fair amount
of money for the Grimes campaign. Where is the reward for all your hard work on
the street, for all the hard work? You went out to try to do something to change
the face of this Province, to try to do something to address the concerns of
this Province. You went out and raised thousands of dollars, from what I can
understand, thousands of dollars, I say to the Member for Bay of Islands. Years
ago, we used to have a show on television called the Six Million Dollar Man.
Now, we have the Member from Bay of Islands and they call him the $20,000 man.
Well, he went out and raised his quota but he did not get as much as - did he
get a thank you? I don't know. Did he get as much as a thank you, Mr. Speaker?
That really concerns me.
MR. JOYCE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
MR. JOYCE: Just a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
The member is making accusations there that I was out raising money for Roger
Grimes. If I did or did not -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I just want to remind hon. members, when referring to members of the House,
they ought not to use their names.
Go ahead.
MR. JOYCE: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker.
- out raising money. If it is true, it is true; if it is not, it is not. It
is not true.
Second of all, I do not ask for, and never, ever did ask for, any thank you
from anybody in this House. My thank you is the people of Bay of Islands who get
the benefits from a good Liberal government, whoever it is in government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I don't want to upset the Member for Bay of
Islands. All I am saying here is that I picked up a copy today of page 38 and 39
of The Newfoundland Herald this week, which somebody forwarded to me this
morning, and there is a quote. You really have to ask yourself who is confused
in this Province. Here is a quote, and the quote comes from the former Minister
of Fisheries and Aquaculture, "When I was on that stage, (Acting Premier)
Beaton Tulk walked out, shook my hand and said, Congratulations Premier.'"
I am the Premier, he figured. "Then Roger Grimes came out and took my hand,
congratulated me, held my hand high, turned around and left the stage."
Now, who was coddin' who? I would say, who was coddin' who?
MR. FITZGERALD: He said he was only here to represent the people, and
that he had no concern.... Read that part there.
MR. MANNING: Okay, I will get that in a minute now.
Mr. Speaker, the part that concerned me the most, the part that certainly
caused me the greatest concern, was another quote. If I could, Mr. Speaker, I
would just read this quote from the former minister. I am sure he will agreed
these are his words. He said, "Even now, weeks later, you wake up two or
three o'clock in the morning, and you shake your head and you get that strange
feeling down through you - what could I have done differently? Eight more
ballots and I would have won. And then I think of things some of my friends did
to me..." -
MR. EFFORD: Now my so-called friends.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: "...so it is difficult but time will hopefully heal (
all wounds)."
MR. EFFORD: It never will.
MR. MANNING: It never will?
That concerns me. One thing I have to say - the former minister is on the
other side of the House, and has been since I came in here - I have to say in
all honesty that he has treated me very well. Any time I went to him with a
concern or an issue from the district, he treated me very well. All I can say is
that, with friends like that, who wants enemies in that regard?
I look around over there and, I will be honest with you and say this with
complete honesty and no malice intended: I was very surprised. I want to quote
another paragraph, if I could. "After deciding to run for Premier, Efford
soon realized he was on his own. Almost to a man, the rest of the Liberal caucus
backed Grimes. That's when Efford turned to Dumaresque - his long-time friend
and former MHA for the south coast of Labrador." Mr. Dumaresque happened to
be here in the House. It is too bad he is not here now. I would like to
congratulate him on a fine job. He rattled a lot of cages.
MR. EFFORD: A point of order, Madam Speaker.
MADAM SPEAKER (Ms Hodder): On a point of order, the hon. the Member for
Port de Grave.
MR. EFFORD: I have to correct the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
Not all of the caucus was against me. I have to mention Madam Speaker. Don't
exclude Madam Speaker.
MR. MANNING: I was getting to that. I am not overly concerned about Madam
Speaker, because I have known her for quite some time now and a fine lady she
is. I was not surprised when I turned on the TV and found her supporting you. Do
you know why I was not surprised? Because she comes from the grassroots. That
was why I was not surprised.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: But, I was very surprised when I picked up a copy of the
April 25 by-election in Trinity North. I was very surprised when I look at a
place like Elliott's Cove, where the now sitting member got thirty-two votes
and one in Elliott's Cove. I was very surprised when he won Hillview; I was
very surprised when he won North West Brook; I was very surprised when he won
Butter Cove and Gooseberry Cove; Little Heart's Ease; Queen's Cove; Petley;
Britannia; Hickman's Harbour; Aspen Brook; Snooks Harbour. I was very
surprised when he won all of them. I was very surprised, when he won all of
them, and when he was asked to support you, after you going down and supporting
him and making him sit here in the House of Assembly, I was very surprised that
he did not say yes. I was very surprised when you went down to the hotel and
announced your candidacy - and this Province was in an uproar about your
candidacy, I would say. I know people in my own district were very excited that
Mr. Efford was standing up to the plate. I was very surprised when he announced,
down in the hotel here in downtown St. John's, that the Member for Trinity
North was not sitting by his side. I have to be very honest; I am not joking.
I have said here in the House before and I will repeat it again, just to make
sure that everybody is clear, because sometimes you have to do it a couple of
times to make sure everybody is clear - I say to the Member for Bay of Islands,
I will get back to you in a second.
I was out in Trinity North campaigning for our candidate, Mr. Stagg. We all
went out and did out part, like everybody. I went out there, and everywhere I
went people said to me: John Efford was here today; John Efford was here
yesterday; the Member for Port de Grave was here last week. He was down there,
knocking on doors, going around and campaigning. I still stand - somebody has to
prove me wrong, and nobody has proven me wrong so far. Someone has to prove me
wrong, that what I say is wrong, that the member, in my view - and we are all
entitled to our own views - the Member for Trinity North would not be in the
House today only for the efforts of John Efford.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Then, to stand up and say, I am going to run for the Premier
of the Province and not have the support from people like him; because he comes
from a district of grassroots. He comes from a rural district that depends a lot
on the fishing industry, in which this minister had performed quite well for
over a number of years. I was very surprised, to say the least, in that regard.
I have to ask the question, because in another comment that I contributed to
the former minister, when I look around and see the people up in the nosebleed
section, the Member for Trinity North; the Member for Carbonear -Harbour Grace;
the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; while some of them got some
positions, parliamentary assistants, to make them feel good, whatever the case
may be, to keep them all at peace, there is another quote here and I found this
one really interesting. I have to say that I find the quotes from the former
minister interesting all the time, but there are a couple of other quotes that I
found very interesting too. The former minister said, "There's no worse
place to be for an individual who's got energy and who wants to do things than
on the back benches on the government side." I will repeat, because I want
to make sure that everybody got that, "There's no worse place to be for
an individual who's got energy and who wants to do things than on the back
benches of the government side."
I say to the former minister, I know there is not a lot of energy up there -
I know that -but I would say there is no worse place to be. Coming from a man
who was in the back benches, who ended up in the front benches, who is now -
they thought they were going to put him up in the back benches but they had to
put him out front. They were not going to put him up there. I have three or four
copies of the seating plan here. Talk about confused. I came down one day and
the former Minister of Mines and Energy was up in the back. That is the first
sheet we got. Then the next day we came down with a sheet and he was down in the
front, and the Member for Conception Bay East was back in the back. Then we came
back down the next day and he was gone. He left altogether; he bailed out. Now
we have the Member for Conception Bay East back down in the front, but the
Member for Conception Bay East will always be in the front seat by himself
because he will not be in any Cabinet. He was not going to be in Effort's
Cabinet and he was not going -
MR. EFFORD: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
MADAM SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Member for Port de
Grave.
MR. EFFORD: Madam Speaker, I have been here in the House of Assembly for
almost sixteen years and I know debates are pretty wide-ranging when it comes to
government services and concurrences. While he is continuing to talk about an
article that was in The Newfoundland Herald , I know what is in the
article and I do not need to listen to it all again. We need to get on with the
government debate on government services. While we are wide-ranging, he has not
yet mentioned one sentence of anything to do with government services in the
budget debate.
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Madam Speaker, I understand the interest that the former
minister has in my comments. This is my
preamble. I know you were sidetracked by
talking to some other members, but what I started off talking about was the
concern of government services, the concern of the financial situation in the
Province, the concern of the Public Service Commission, as an example, the
concern that people have out there. They were hoping to address the concerns
that the people had and the issues they wanted to address through the leadership
race.
If I could also make a few comments. Back a few weeks ago we had some concern
raised about the by-election in Humber West. When the Leader of the Opposition
questioned the Premier on when he was going to call a by-election in Humber
West, the Premier said, at the time, that it would be up to the district
executive in Humber West. Here we have a district which does not have
representation here in the House and he says: It is going to be up to the
executive of Humber West.
Well, I will read another quote, if I could, from Mr. Borden.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. MANNING: What is that?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) take it you would not have (inaudible).
MR. MANNING: No, and if you did not have Efford you would not have a
seat.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: So don't get on with that. If you did not have Efford you
would not have a seat. I am not talking about effort, I am talking about John
Efford.
Madam Speaker, if I could, I am trying to talk about Humber West but I keep
getting interrupted. I know the Member for Trinity North has a lot on his
conscience, but he will have to deal with that. I cannot handle that.
MADAM SPEAKER: I have to remind the hon. member that his time is up.
MR. MANNING: By leave.
MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MADAM SPEAKER: Leave has been withdrawn.
MR. MANNING: Madam Speaker, I want to make a few comments, if I could, on
the by-election call in Humber West and concerns from Wayne Borden who is the -
MADAM SPEAKER: I remind the hon. member that leave has been withdrawn.
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Madam Speaker, if the hon. member wanted to address the
important issues of the day we would allow him to continue, but under the
circumstance there is no leave.
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Youth Services and Post-Secondary
Education.
MS KELLY: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.
I think my first comment should be in concurrence with the Member for Port de
Grave to say that we do need to speak on important government matters and the
concurrence debate is important when we speak about the Estimates. My
preamble I
think is going to be much shorter. I should not run out of time, before my
preamble is up, to get to the matters that I need to speak about today and that
I want to speak about today.
Today I want to talk about the establishment of the Youth Services and
Post-Secondary Education Department. I think that the Member for Placentia &
St. Mary's ought to be very interested in that, being that he is my critic.
services and post-secondary education, and to say that, in the creation of this
department, we are creating a stronger voice for youth, for their issues to be
heard within government. Actually, we need to create a central point of contact
for youth in government so that their services and their programs can be brought
to the forefront. By pulling together all of the programs that we have in
government, the personnel that we have in government who are focused on the
needs of youth and post-secondary education students, this will intensify our
effort and to bring these issues to the forefront. I think it is very important
that we are doing this.
We have put a lot of effort, over the last five years, into our K-12 system
in bringing forward a system that is streamlined and adding services all the
time. I think it is important that we relate now and make sure that we help our
young people, while they are in the K-12 system, to move forward to
post-secondary and to have good programs that are related to career experiences
and career choices. We want to facilitate the transition from school to
post-secondary education, and from post-secondary education to the labour market
because, of course, as our economy is evolving and growing all the time, we need
these skilled graduates.
I should say that one of the most important pieces of work that we have done
over the past few years in the Jobs and Growth Consultations, we very strongly
heard the message from the people of this Province. They said that we need to
create opportunities for the young people in this Province, and with the
creation of this department, that will be the main focus of our department. We
will explore ways to help the Province's young people grow, mature and be a
part of our economy while they are still youths. We also want to explore ways to
export this Province's great educational products. As we know, with the
declining enrollment in our school system right now, we will have less students
to go into our post-secondary education facilities, in particular, Memorial
University of Newfoundland and Labrador. So it is going to very important to
have a good international program.
Speaking of that, this morning I started my day off by hosting a breakfast
for a delegation that is here from the State of Qatar. In this Province, our
College of the North Atlantic is listed on the short list of only four colleges
across Canada to be selected for the largest international education contract
ever to be signed in this country's history. We are on the short list, as I
have said, the College of the North Atlantic with the Northern Alberta technical
institute, with the Southern Alberta technical institute, NAIT and SAIT, and
also with the British Columbia technical institute. So we are one of four. We
had, I think, a very positive meeting this morning with the group from Qatar.
Also, if we do win this contract it will be extremely important for the College
of the North Atlantic and a recognition of the great international work that
they are doing. So, it is a very important piece of work that we have been doing
this week.
We also want, as I have said, to improve the capacity of our youth to
participate in and gain from economic development because, you know, there
really isn't much point in having our economy grow if our young people are not
able to grow and prosper, and be a part of it. Right now, that is one of the
biggest challenges we have to face as a government and as a people. In talking
out, and not many people in Newfoundland and Labrador know this, that the per
student operating grant to Memorial University of Newfoundland and Labrador was
ranked the highest of all provinces in eight of the last twelve years. The per
student grant that this government gives to Memorial University is the highest
in the country, and I think that is a very important piece of information. I
think when Dr. Axel Meisen became the president of the university it was a very
pleasant surprise for him to find out how well supported the university is here
in our Province.
University tuition rates at Memorial University are the lowest in Atlantic
Canada and our college tuition fees are second lowest. My colleague tells me
that in Nova Scotia and PEI the tuition rates just went up. As you know, we are
reducing tuition rates at Memorial by 10 per cent this year.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS KELLY: We hope to continue this as a three-year program, to have a
decrease of 10 per cent again next year and 5 per cent the following year. We
have frozen the tuition rates at the College of the North Atlantic for medical
students and for the College of the North Atlantic.
While we are moving in the right direction we need people to know that we are
already doing a good job in that area. In particular, that is a very important
thing for students who live outside of the areas that they are going to college,
because it is more expensive for rural students to be going to college when you
have to pay for your living expenses. Many people think that it is tuition that
is the big impediment to many of these students, but, you know, the biggest
impediment is the living expenses that students have when they move away from
home.
We are also addressing students financial concerns through a review of the
Student Aid Program. We hope that will result in improved financial arrangements
for students of our Province. It is very difficult right now for a lot of
students. They are graduating from the colleges and the university with a very
high student debt. While we do have some good programs to address this, these
programs need improvement. That is why the student aid review process was put in
place by Minister Foote through the Department of Education six months ago, and
it will be a part of my responsibilities to bring forward that program. We will
be bringing the report forward for public consultation in the next few weeks. We
will be putting it out to the private colleges, the public colleges, the
universities, to anyone interested, in particular, parents and students across
this Province so that we can receive input before I finalize a Cabinet paper to
bring forward. We hope to move quickly on this. We hope that we will be able to,
before September of this year, bring forward improvements for students in this
Province.
Of course, one of the biggest things that we are continuing to do is lobby
the federal government to restore transfer payments to the provinces for
post-secondary education. That is something that all of the ministers of
education, and the ministers of higher education, post-secondary, are pursuing
across this country. But, I have to say, I am very proud of the fact that in
spite of the fact that we have had less money in transfer payments we have been
able to keep up our student grants to Memorial and our College of the North
Atlantic.
Government operating grants to the university have increased by 11.3 per cent
over the past two years, from $115 million in 1998-1999 to $128 million this
year. Government operating grants to the College of the North Atlantic increased
by 21 per cent in three years, from $37.8 million in 1997-1998 to $45 million in
the year 2000, in this year.
Another very important program, I think, that Memorial University has been
pursuing with government's assistance over the past four or five years is the
Opportunity Fund. They started off trying to raise $25 million for new programs
and put in place more bursaries and more scholarships at the university. They
approached government and we said: We will match you dollar for dollar. We have
done that. When they reached $25 million, and felt they could do better, we
said: We will carry on with you. The program actually raised $29 million. In
this years' budget we allocated $3 million to go towards the Opportunity Fund.
Last year, in the year 2000, we put $2.1 million into Sir Wilfred Grenfell
College for refurbishment; $6 million went into renovations for the colleges
Prince Philip Drive Campus. That was very, very important to do. As you know, we
closed out the old Topsail Road campus and this $6 million really needed to be
spent to refurbish the Prince Philip Drive campus.
Also, another half of a million dollars went into equipment purchases to
modernize the medical science program; because there is not much point in having
great classrooms if you do not have really good equipment, state-of-the-art, the
best technology equipment to put into them. That was one of the reasons this
year, when we retired the government air ambulance plane, while the frame of the
plane was old, the avionics equipment on it was state-of-the-art. I have to
thank the Department of Works, Services and Transportation for allowing this to
happen. We now, at the College of the North Atlantic in the Gander campus, have
this state-of-the-art avionic equipment for our students to be able to enhance
their learning on.
I think that we have now to focus on several other issues at Memorial
University. Because of the declining enrolment, we need to get involved in
recruiting students from around the Province, from other provinces and
countries, to attend Memorial University. It is extremely important that we do
this. MUN has really enhanced its recruitment from high schools in the Province.
They have been out there now annually with a set program, competing with the
mainland universities who are down here trying to lure our students out of the
Province. We have school groups that come regularly into Memorial University for
guided tours, both at the Corner Brook campus and at the St. John's campus.
MUN regularly meets with guidance counselors to keep them informed of new
programs and new opportunities at Memorial.
Of course, the new president of Memorial University has been very active all
around the Island part of the Province and into Labrador, as often as possible,
meeting with groups and looking at opportunities and encouraging students in
this Province to go to Memorial University.
We also now have recruiters from Memorial University who are going to the
Eastern Seaboard of the United States. We have much closer working relationships
right now in that area, in trade and export, but now we are also looking at
recruiting students from that area of the United States. It is proving to be
successful. Right now, we have enough Memorial alumni down there that they have
formed their own group and are actively helping us. The council on higher
education has been putting together new promotional materials to market this
Province as an educational destination.
I have to say that when I was on the Team Canada mission in China in
February, it was interesting to note that now Canada's main product for export
is educational services. There is no doubt about it. This Province wants to be
in that market. Because it has been proven, when students come here to go to
school, they often see many business opportunities here and they stay afterwards
and set up businesses. It is good for our economy.
I should also say that we now have a provincial Web site:
www.education.gov.nf.ca. I think it is important that we look at the services
that are listed on that site so we know just what we have in this Province. It
is a product to be proud of.
This morning when I was meeting with the State of Gatar, they were telling me
they could not believe, in a province that only has a little over a half million
people, which is exactly about the same population that they have, that we
probably have ten times the educational opportunity in this Province. That is
why we have the ability to export this as a service.
Social and economic benefits are increasing the number of international
students, and those opportunities include allowing us to maintain a
comprehensive post-secondary education system despite declining demographics. It
will increase opportunities to build international partnerships and expertise,
as I have said, for education and the private sector, and it will increase
opportunities for us to have student work terms and job placements overseas. So
it is very important for us to be able to develop these international marketing
opportunities in education, and it is something that I will be focusing on
during my term in this portfolio.
I briefly mentioned before some of the initiatives that we are looking at for
student aid. I would like to talk about that in a little more detail, because
government is committed to ensuring the Student Aid Program is responsive to the
needs of students, to all students in Newfoundland and Labrador.
We have been doing, as I have said, an internal review of our provincial
loans program and we have also been working with the federal government on the
Canada Student Loan Program. A complete review of the program was undertaken
with students and other stakeholder groups on the committee. They have started
to submit their report. We recognize the valuable and vital role that students
play in helping us to improve services that are designed to meet them; so, of
course, we have been including them every step of the way.
The report has many recommendations in it, and I think some of them are
really, really interesting. One of the things that we are told would be a great
improvement in the system would be, if we put in performance-based grants for
students with the greatest need; if there were reductions in tuition costs. Of
course, we have already started to act on that. Enhanced assistance during the
repayment process: in other words, if we are going to be helping students out
with the repayment process, do it right from the beginning so that you do not
have as much interest occurring. Consolidation and enhancement of student
employment programs: we have so many programs out there between the federal
government and the provincial government and other groups and foundations and
that, that students are telling us it is very confusing to them. In our new
department, we hope to put in place an ability for students to have one place to
come for information. The zonal boards across this Province have been saying
exactly the same thing to us, as have our individual students.
We need also to put in measures to facilitate wise choice and timely
completion of programs. I think a lot of students, when they are going off to
post-secondary, some of them are even going on a whim. They are saying, because
my mother or father was in that profession, maybe I would like to do that too;
or, it is something that I have seen on television. It gets to be mighty
expensive when you go off to university and discover, in your second or three
year, after you have done a work term, that this is not what I really want to
do. We would like to put programs in place that start in the K-12 system that
are able to help students gain work experience, to do some job shadowing, to
have a mentor, to be able to help them make wise career choices. It does not
mean that you cannot change your mind when you are at a post-secondary
educational institution, but it means that less students should have to do that,
because they will make decisions based on a lot more information. The
information is all out there, but the experience, the ability to get the
experience, is not.
As we put in place our new student employment programs in the upcoming years,
we want to tie them directly to the experience that students want to get, to
help them determine what their career choice should be.
Of course, we need to put in alternate assistance measures for targeted
groups. One of my very big interests and my very big concerns is the fact that
we have a really good Early Childhood Development program, and a requirement in
this Province, if you are to work in that profession, that you must have a
two-year program. The two-year program is excellent; but, as we all know, many
parents in this Province do not have the ability to pay really high child
babysitting rates. We need to be able to assist students when they are coming
out of this program, who have really high debt, because their wages are still
not anywhere close to the national average. We need to look at this group in
particular to ensure that students who are graduating from the Early Childhood
Development programs will have some assistance so that they are able to go to
work in their chosen profession, and not have to move into another job because
they cannot afford to pay for their student loans.
We also, of course, need to make sure that there are reasonable
accountability measures put in place. By that, I mean that students have to be
able to, and the government must adhere to, certain programs so that students
themselves have to be accountable and responsible when it comes to the
borrowings of money for which they will have to pay back. We want them to have
to pay back less, but we also know that everyone has to be responsible:
government, parents and students.
The government plans to implement many of these recommendations for the next
academic year. Right now we are working really, really hard in my department. I
have staff that are extremely dedicated to this task, and they are working to
ensure that we can put these programs in place by September, as I have said.
Right now, we will soon have our consultation document out on the report that
the Student Aid Review Committee did. Then we will look forward to hearing back
from students and others, stakeholders in this system, to be able to consult
with us, so that when we put the programs in place they address the real needs.
MS S. OSBORNE: (Inaudible).
MS KELLY: Is it really? Okay.
MR. SHELLEY: You told us.
MR. FITZGERALD: You said you weren't going to take much time.
MS KELLY: Yes, and here I am, I have actually used up all the time. You
know, I wanted to talk about changes, further changes, that we are looking at
with financial assistance legislation, but I am sure I will have another
opportunity to do that. I wanted to talk about a few of the issues around youth
out-migration also, but there will be other times to do that.
If the members would like to hear a little bit more about some summer
employment programs, I could do that, but I can also do that at a later date.
MADAM SPEAKER: Does the hon. minister have leave?
MS KELLY: You would like to have that information.
AN HON. MEMBER: Go ahead.
MS S. OSBORNE: Yes, Minister.
MS KELLY: Okay. Well, I will conclude, Madam Speaker, by talking about
the various employment opportunities that we would like to bring forward.
There will be strong support for youth attending post-secondary programs and
initiatives, that will ensure high quality and affordable post-secondary
education. Of course, the types of programs are both federal and provincial.
Human Resources and Employment, who we work very closely with - we have the
SWASP programs, we have the Graduate program, the Small Business Cooperative
Placement program, the Newfoundland and Labrador Conservation Corp Green
Initiative, and I should say, we would like to be able to put in place a white
initiative also, which means you would be able to have a winter program for the
Conservation Corp. We have students who are not able to access the
post-secondary education system because they need to save money before they can
go to school, and they also want to get some work experience. So we are going to
be looking at enhancing that program. Of course, the high school student
program, which we have now for Levels 1, 2 and 3, which I know many members
greatly appreciate throughout all the districts in the Province, we would like
to be able to expand that program a little.
From Health and Community Services we have the Community Youth Networks which
are funded under the National Child Benefit and the Teen Tobacco Program. From
the Department of Education we have the Youth Services Division which includes
grants to the youth organizations, like Boy Scouts and the Boys and Girls Club
and the 4-H Club. Of course, then we have the travel Exchange Programs, the Duke
of Edinborough Award for the Young Canadian Challenge, and another really
important program, I think, Tutoring for Tuition programs, because all students
benefit from that. The students who do the tutoring are able to save money
towards their education, but the students who need the tutoring really benefit.
We hope to expand that program.
I think a lot of it is not so much that we need new programs, we need to
expand the programs we have, because in many instances we are able to help put
in place a few hundred students, but we should be able to expand that now. I
hope that this year some of our programs for this summer, there will be
increased weeks and increased availability for the programs.
Student aid and support for post-secondary education is also transferred to
my new department. The new department will be taking steps to establish a
process that will facilitate interaction between youth and government. Of
course, over the next few weeks you should see an ad in the papers looking for
nominations for the new Youth Advisory Council that will go into place. I hope
that that Youth Advisory Council will represent youth from all over the
Province, from various organizations, that there will be gender equality amongst
that advisory board, that we will have youth that are disabled on the board,
that we will have youth who are aboriginal, that it will be a very broadly based
initiative, and I really look forward to receiving their advise.
Both HRE, Human Resources and Employment Department of government, and my own
department are working together to develop innovative methods to address the
needs of youth.
I thank you very much for giving me leave to expand on this a little and I
look forward, before the debate in this House recesses later in May, to be able
to tell you about more initiatives in my department.
Thank you.
AN HON. MEMBER: Bravo! Bravo!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.
MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
There were times this afternoon I wondered exactly what expenditure heads we
were doing, and I think the minister is probably a couple of days late in
talking about Youth Services and Post-Secondary Education.
Madam Speaker, while some of the things the minister was saying may have been
of interest, the one thing that she did not say, that would have been of
tremendous interest to a lot of students in this Province, was the total debt
load that students are building up as they go through Memorial University, as
they go through the College of the North Atlantic. We have students today who
are coming out of university owing $40,000, $50,000, and $60,000, and I did not
hear the minister mention that at all. I believe, Madam Speaker, that if we are
going to talk about grants or we are going to talk about this sort of thing,
this is the type of thing that we should be talking about.
As well, Madam Speaker, on the heading that we are supposed to be on today,
the expenditure of the Government Services Committee, I would like to touch on
the Public Service Commission. I would like to know: Do we have a Public Service
Commission anymore? Is there such an animal now within government? I understand
that a short while ago we appointed a Mr. Bob Noseworthy as either Chairman or
Vice Chairman of the Public Service Commission. I would like for somebody to
tell me what Mr. Noseworthy's job is and exactly what he does in that
department in Newfoundland and Labrador, when forty people were just hired,
again to go to work with the Special Events Organization in this Province, of
which none of the jobs went through the Pubic Service Commission in this
Province; not one of them. There were somewhere close to forty people hired. I
would like to know who hired them. I would like to know what Public Service
Commission they went through, or are we still following on from the last -
AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible).
MR. FRENCH: Why don't you sit down in your seat and I will give you a
chance to get up and talk all afternoon, boy.
So, Madam Speaker, we hired forty people. What papers did we run the
advertising in? Where did we seek young people of Newfoundland and Labrador, or
again was it on the whim of some minister that we should hire forty thousand
people and stick them in the government jobs? There is a day coming, a day
coming when this crowd will not be able to do that anymore. That day is coming
and that day is probably not to far away. I think it is ridiculous that we can
go out and hire forty people to go to work in the public service of this
Province and there is no application, there are no ads, there is no call for
employment, there is nothing. So, who's whim, Madam Speaker, was that done on?
I would really appreciate knowing exactly what Mr. Noseworthy's job is. I
know he held a very responsible position with Municipal and Provincial Affairs
and I also know that he is no longer there. So, I would like to know what Mr.
Noseworthy's job is and I would like to know how many people Mr. Noseworthy
and the Public Service Commission in this Province have the right to hire, and,
in actual fact, do they have the right to hire anybody? I would also like for
somebody to tell me where the forty people came from, what types of jobs they
were, what salaries are in these jobs, where are they, what kind of salaries are
we paying out. I think it is a question, Madam Speaker, that certainly begs to
be answered.
As well, Madam Speaker, under the Government Services Committee we also have
the Department of Works, Services, and Transportation. I have heard the minister
say, I believe it is in excess of $250 odd million that is needed for paving in
this Province this year. The man was going to dance a jig if he did not get
somewhere close to that, and I believe I heard it announced a little while ago
that we have $18 million to service this whole Province in roads; $18 million
dollars. You take your 15 per cent or 20 per cent engineering fee away from that
and it is not $18 million, Madam Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: ( Inaudible).
MR. FRENCH: Yes, but you are not, you see, minister, you are not. So,
that figure comes down and comes down by at least $3 million. So now, Madam
Speaker, we are down somewhere in the $15 million range.
I know my colleague from his district, I am sure that he could take the $15
million and there would not be one nickle of it that would not be put to good
use. He could do a tremendous job with that money. But then we have other
districts in this Province that need a lot of servicing. Again, the amount of
money for Works, Services and Transportation really bothers me. Again, the
$150-odd million where we just bought used machinery from a company in
Newfoundland and Labrador, absolutely no tender call, absolutely no consultation
with the people who formerly had this equipment rented, and yet we spend this.
Yet, the president of the Liberal Party says: I do not know anything about that.
Now he is only the sales manager, or some kind of a manager who deals with this
equipment, but yet he knows nothing about a $150-odd million purchase. What
nonsense. What absolute nonsense!
As well, I would like to get into Newfoundland and Labrador Housing. I
attended the Estimates Committee here that night, and at that particular time I
thanked the minister and his staff - I think I did - for turning out that night.
He had a fair crowd with him. I hardly realized there could be as many people in
management working there, as the group he had sitting behind him on that side of
the House.
There were an awful lot of questions concerning Newfoundland and Labrador
Housing, the way in which we divvy up money. I am sure you have had the calls; I
have had the calls. People are offered housing unsuitable to residents who have
to move into this housings. I will give you one example of a call I yesterday
from a single mother who has two children, one about one year old and the other
about three, who was offered a residence in the city here. She lives outside
right now, but because of marital problems she has to get out of where she
presently lives. She has two very small children. On the back of the home that
they were offered to move into, there is a 100 foot drop and not very many
safeguards around for two very dear and small children. She told them that maybe
she should not move into this home. She was then threatened and told: Either you
take this house or you go back on a waiting list for one year.
Who are we serving? Are they serving themselves or are they serving the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador? That is the question that bothers me, and
it bothers me a great deal. I trust, before this day is out, I am going to have
some kind of an answer to that complaint.
It is time that we did not use threats any more for people to get into what I
consider to be acceptable accommodations. For a lady in her position, with two
such very small children, I believe that this lady should certainly have been
given much better consideration before this lady had to move into this type of
facility, with that type of surrounding around that particular home.
Again, I raise that question here today. I also, Madam Speaker, in the
Estimates Committee, raised the question: Where is the money coming from? Some
of the people who work there, what do they think? That they put their hand in
their own pocket and take out the money to repair somebody's home, to repair
somebody's water system, is that what they think? If they do, they are wrong.
That money comes from you and I, the taxpayers and the citizens of Newfoundland
and Labrador, and I believe there should be a lot more consideration given to
this type of problem. If we are going to go out and fix those problems for
people, then these are things we should do.
Over the last several days, under Municipal and Provincial Affairs, I have
talked about infrastructure money. I am sure, Madam Speaker, you have the
problems, and I do not disbelief that every member of this House has the
problems. I have been into areas of this Province where I have seen what used to
be white socks now brown because of the conditions of the water, and we expect
the people of this Province to drink that?
I have stayed in hotels in this Province where, when you went into the room,
there was a note on the desk where the phone was, saying: Please, do not drink
the water. Now this is a hotel in this Province where we are trying to attract
tourists to this Province. Yet, there was a note there saying: Please, do not
drink the water. In other words, the water that goes into that hotel is not fit
to drink.
I know of another area in this Province where the bottled water was laid
again on the table in the room and the sign said: Don't brush your teeth. Don't
use the water the comes out of our tap to brush your teeth.
Madam Speaker, a few years ago, I had the opportunity to represent an
organization to go out of this country. I came back and, in less than a week, I
became very sick. I ended up having my daughter take me out to the Health
Sciences Centre and I had all kinds of tests done and all kinds blood tests done
and finally one of the doctors came in and said: Mr. French, have you been
anywhere lately? I said: Well, what do you mean, have I been anywhere? He said:
Have you been out of the country? I said: Yes, I have been to Puerto Rico. He
said: By any chance, you didn't drink the water? Madam Speaker, the first two
days I was in that country - I take medication for diabetes - I took the
medication with water that came out of the tap. Finally, on the second or third
day I actually went out and bought two litres of Diet Pepsi and started to take
my medication with Diet Pepsi. The doctor looked at me and said: Mr. French,
that is your problem. You may have picked up a bug while you were in this
country, because you drank the water.
Now, Madam Speaker, is that what we are coming to in Newfoundland and
Labrador. We have in excess of 200 boil orders for drinking water in this
Province, which I think is disgraceful, and I think the federal government
should become more involved here. The former Premier stood down in the East End
of St. John's on the waterfront and watched the bubble, and we all know what
the bubble is in the St. John's harbour, coming up. That has to be cured, and
I will fight with the federal government for a commitment to fix that, for the
federal government's commitment to go in to help to put an end to the sewerage
and the condition to the St. John's harbour.
It is very interesting to note that the federal government gave the City of
Toronto $500 million to correct sewerage and this type of thing on their harbour
in Toronto. What is the difference between Toronto and St. John's,
Newfoundland? What is the difference between Toronto and the outports of
Newfoundland and Labrador, where people cannot drink the water that flows
through their taps? You know, where are we coming from? I believe, Madam
Speaker, that this should stop. I believe, federally, there should have been
more money put into the infrastructure program, and I believe our own
commitment, I think we should have a very serious look at where we get our
money, how we get our money and how we spend our money, so that we can also put
money into this type of program. I have had calls from all over this Province
from residents who are very, very concerned that their community has a boil
order for their drinking water, the basic human right. I have also had calls
from my own district where people are afraid to get in to take a bath with a
three or four or five year old child, to put that child in the bathtub because
the water that comes out of the tap is brown. The water that comes out of the
tap is almost, Madam Speaker, like sewerage. Is that right, in the year 2001? I
don't think so. I think we should have a better commitment, the way our
dollars are spent, and this is one area that I believe we should also look at.
As well, under the municipal infrastructure program - and I notice the
minister is here now - I know again from my own district that there has been a
request submitted to the minister for the paving of gravel roads under the
infrastructure program. I know in my own area the number of roads that have to
be done, that need to be done and that should be done. I hope at the end of the
day my own district does not receive lip service or mere pittance. I hope that
our area is certainly carved out for some of this money. I really and truly do
not expect to get very much money for repairs and upgrading of roads from Works,
Services and Transportation, although I have written a letter concerning a road
in my district that has two schools, an awful lot of residents - the area has
been built up almost overnight - and the road conditions in that area, with five
and six school buses a day traveling back and forth over that particular area,
is ridiculous. The road is not wide enough and the conditions of the road are
really, really ridiculous. This is something that Works, Services and
Transportation should be looking at as well. I can only feel the greatest of
sympathy for members in this House, again on both sides, who have massive
amounts of gravel roads in their districts. To go out in the spring of this year
and cover those roads with calcium chloride does not cut it. That is a poor
substitute and a poor excuse for pavement. These people have the right today to
drive over something decent. The school children who travel on these buses have
the right to drive over something in a decent school bus and on a decent road,
in the year 2001.
MR. BARRETT: (Inaudible).
MR. FRENCH: I believe that. Maybe there are areas in this Province where
you need a decent member, I say to the Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation.
When we do some of the things that we do - I believe the monies that we
spend, or that the government spends, should be spaced around a heck of a lot
more, and it should never be determined on where you sit in this House, but
should be determined in this House by the amount of needs that you have. I can
only talk about my member here.
MR. TULK: (Inaudible).
MR. FRENCH: I hope not.
Again, I can only go back to my friend and colleague here, where he comes
from, and I listen to him every year present petitions in this House. I watch
people who sit back and think it is a big joke and a big laugh. I watched the
Minister of Works, Services and Transportation and the Minister of Finance, the
other day, poke fun because this member was standing up presenting a petition on
behalf of residents of his area. That is what he was elected to do, Madam
Speaker. He knows what he was elected to do. These are things that he was doing
for the rights and privileges of the people that he comes into this House to
represent.
Madam Speaker, there are lots of things that we should have a look at here. I
realized earlier on that I got into the wrong area talking about the Social
Services Committee. I got into that early because the minister gave her whole
speech and, in actual fact, spent all of her comments and all of her time
talking about a department, and departments, that we debated about three days
ago. We are into a different department today and these are the ones that I
speak on: Municipal and Provincial Affairs; Works, Services and Transportation;
Environment; Finance; public service; and Government Services and Lands.
Again, the minister is here today. I had some need, about a week or so ago,
to call his department about somebody who had an application in to have their
home converted to a bed and breakfast. It was well in excess of a month and this
individual had not heard back. There were all kinds of excuses, but still no
answers. I called over and got talking to this nice young lady and I said:
Madam, if you would let me, why don't you allow me to be the devil's
advocate? What happens if this gentleman today, while he is on holidays, heaven
forbid, drops dead? Does that mean we stop everything that this man is doing or
do we not have somebody in that department who can take this person's
application, sit down and look at it, and say: Hey, this man is right you know.
There is no need to hang up. This man's application should have been approved
two or three weeks ago.
Madam Speaker, I was very fortunate or lucky, I guess, because I got talking
to one of the directors. He called me back after I told him the problem my
constituent had and he said: Mr. French, you know you are right. There is no
reason why that application should sit for another week on that man's desk.
That application can be dealt with some time today in this department. I said:
Sir, all this gentleman wants is a letter from your department which he can take
to the municipality where he lives, present this letter and know that he has the
sanction of the government department and that his application will be approved.
He said: Mr. French, that letter will be written. By the time we get off the
phone that letter will be started. I thanked him very much and called back the
gentleman who had called me. He was very happy and very pleased that finally,
after a month or so of waiting, his application had now moved forward enough so
that he could go ahead and construct the bed and breakfast, which is in a
beautiful area of our town. It looks out over Conception Bay; a tremendous spot.
This was something that this man was going to use, naturally enough, to
supplement his income.
Again, it took in excess of thirty days, and the days were still climbing.
The days kept going up and up and we really had nothing to offer this man. I
believe that these are areas - if we are going to improve services to people in
this Province, and it says: Government Services and Lands; and service, Madam
Speaker, is a service. If we are going to provide these services, and good
services to people in this Province then things, like I just mentioned, should
not take as long and should not go on as long as this was allowed to happen.
These types of things should not happen and I would urge the government in
the future not to allow them to happen. I can only say to my friend, the
Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, that he give due diligence this
year when the money is being carved up to be passed around, to tie in with the
infrastructure funding so that communities in this Province who have suffered
for a long time, and suffered long and hard, can reap the benefits of some of
this money because for some of them it is probably the last time that they will
have the opportunity to apply for such funding. I do not think that this -
AN HON. MEMBER: That's not true.
MR. FRENCH: It is true, I say to the member. Yes, it certainly is true,
that no matter where we sit in this House, we, in every district in this
Province - Madam Speaker, I can take you this afternoon, if you are interested,
and drive you through parts of my own district and show you raw sewage coming
out into the ditches along the side of the road. I can do that with you this
afternoon. I can take you to homes in my district where the water they used to
drink - they do not drink it anymore. They carry the water now for their small
children - where white socks are now brown because of the iron content in the
water. I can take you to places in my district and show you, as I am sure other
members of this House can, but in 2001 people in this Province should not - like
what happened to me when I went to Puerto Rico. We should have the right and
privilege to sit down and know that the water we drink is fit for human
habitation; and we can drink that water and have no fear of our children,
grandchildren or anybody else drinking that water.
I know, Madam Speaker, in your own area, where you come from - I know quite a
few people in your area who have the same problems as I talk about this
afternoon. I am sure you can agree with most of the things I have said.
I see the Member for Bay of Islands nodding his head. I am sure he can agree
with me on some of the things I have said here this afternoon because these are
needs, real needs, that need to be addressed. They do not need to be addressed
in five years time, they need to be addressed today.
I thank you very much for your time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MADAM SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.
MR. REID: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I will make it short. I just want to raise a few points. Some of them have to
do with what happened in the House yesterday. It is not that I have a thin skin,
and I do not mind people criticizing me, but what bothers me is when they
criticize me for something that I did not do or something that I did not say.
Yesterday afternoon, in a debate in the House, I talked about - over the past
three, four or five weeks I have constantly asked members opposite and others in
the Province what we could or should do with the Board of Directors of FPI.
Everybody has come back to me, including the legal advice, and said nothing.
Yesterday in the debate I kept asking and talking about the Opposition who
kept changing their mind, one way to the other, back and forth, and that I could
not determine where they stood. In that debate I said: I am just as much in the
dark today as I was yesterday about it. What I meant was that I am just as much
in the dark today about where the Opposition stood on it - and I am still just
as much in the dark as to where the Opposition stands on it - as I was then.
Having said that, Madam Speaker, the Official Leader of the Progressive
Conservative Party, who was either not in the House of Assembly at the time, or
certainly never read Hansard, quickly ran off to one of the news media in the
Province and stated: Gerry Reid said in the House today that he was just as much
in the dark about FPI as he was yesterday.
Madam Speaker, I have a master's degree in Linguistics, which is the study
that has been in use in the Grade 10 curriculum throughout the Province for the
past twelve years. The title of the book is Transitions, but it is about
argumentation and persuasion. In that it teaches you - and I did a good job at
teaching the students that I taught - that there are certain things that you do
not do in argumentation and persuasion. One is that you do not take quotes out
of context, and you do not used selective omission. The other one is: You do not
attack the person; you attack the argument. The Official Leader of the PC Party
yesterday broke all three of those. Things that kids in Grade 12, Grade 11, and
Grade 10 would not do because they know the difference. He chose to do that and
went out to the media last night and said that I admitted that I did not know
anything about FPI. That is not true. What really upsets me is the fact that
they are trying to use the debate about FPI for their own political good. They
are taking cheap political cracks at us. It seems to me that they are far more
interested in gaining some political points than they are about the futures of
those affected by the FPI takeover of the board last week, and that concerns me,
Madam Speaker. It went on again today because they keep asking the same
questions: What we are going to do; when are we going to do it? I continue to
ask: What do they propose to do? And I still get no answers. Having said that, I
have a bit of a tough skin. You have to have one after you get in here for
awhile. I must say I did not when I came here. I thought that people played by
the rules and they would not do that with you.
Madam Speaker, what really is starting to concern me here now is about what
is being said, not only in the House of Assembly by the Opposition, but by
others in the Province who know the difference; what is being said about the new
Board of Directors of Fishery Products International. We did everything that was
in our power to do with regard to the selection of the Board of Directors for
FPI. We could not do anything else short of nationalizing the company. The
Leader of the PC Party was on record one day saying that we should not do that.
Another day he is on saying that we should have. So I do not know where he
stands, but legally, we could not interfere with that unless we were going to
nationalize the company. Having said that, the fact remains that it is done. We
have a new board of directors at FPI, a company that employs a lot of people in
this Province; a company that did over $700 million in sales last year and
whether that company survives or not will play an important role in this
Province.
What is beginning to concern me, Madam Speaker, are the questions that are
being raised in this House and the innuendo that has been floated around this
Province about the integrity of the new board of directors of that company. Now,
whether they like these people or whether they do not like these people, that is
their own decision but we should be - and when I say we, I say all of us - very
careful what we say about these people because the world listens. As I said, I
was quoted yesterday as saying something by an individual who was not sitting in
this House at the time that it was said; something that I did not say. As we
speak right here, and as I speak right now, this is going into the newsrooms of
this Province live. Every word that I say right now is being recorded, if it is
wanted to be recorded, in every newsroom in this Province. What I am saying is
that we should be very careful over what we say about these individuals because
the world is listening.
AN HON. MEMBER: Words are important.
MR. REID: Words are important, and I am sincerely worried that if the
integrity of this group - and I do not know these people personally, Madam
Speaker. All I know is that eight of them are prominent Newfoundland business
people who have done well in the Province, who know a lot of people in this
Province. I do not know their political stripe, except for one, the Hon. John
Crosbie. We all know that he is Progressive Conservative. I do not know how the
rest of these people vote, but we should be very careful about what we say
because if we question the integrity of that board and the people - and they
were saying that this company is going to be divvied up. It is going to be cast
into the air and there are going to be pieces of it picked up in Iceland, pieces
in New Zealand, and pieces down in the United States. Madam Speaker, are the
shareholders in that company going to continue to leave their money in that
company? That concerns me. That co